Military Review

"Tatars must understand that they will be in a sectarian trap"

76
Archpriest Oleg Stenyaev is convinced that separatist sentiments in Tatarstan can only lead to the loss of sovereignty and Wahhabism ...


As reported, under the lulling of the federal center, the talk of “secularism” and the revival of “traditional moral values” in Tatarstan actually gives green light to the process of “hijabization” and the Islamization of public schools. In addition, the “Concept of the state national policy of the Republic of Tatarstan” signed by President of Tatarstan Rustam Minnikhanov, which emphasizes the need to “position” the republic as an “ethnocultural center”, is puzzling. At the same time about the "non-titular" population - and this is every second in the republic - the document says in passing.

In this regard, the chairman of the Council of Regions of the National Democratic Party (NDP) Rostislav Antonov believes that “the Kazan Kremlin sees the future of the republic as a national state, albeit as part of Russia. Consequently, the Russians of Tatarstan, as well as other "non-title" peoples, can only rely on themselves. "

We asked the well-known priest, the head of the Center for the rehabilitation of victims of non-traditional religions to them to comment on this situation. A.C. Khomyakova, Archpriest Oleg Stenyaev.

These events show that the religious feelings of one or another ethnic group are much stronger than the desire for enrichment, supranational cultural programs, sports competitions. This is the reality of our life - a person lives in the interests of his nation, in the interests of his religion.

The problem with Tatarstan is that this is being done on the wave of Tatar nationalism. But Tatars must understand that if they culturally and politically find themselves outside of Russia, they will lose their national sovereignty, because they will be swallowed up by crowds of Arab sectarians who don’t recognize the very concept of a nation. The sectarian, Wahhabi mentality will prevail in Tatar society, it will be a blow to Tatar culture and tradition. This is indicated by the Muslims of Tatarstan themselves.

The movement of Wahhabism is young for Islam, it originated in the XVIII century, inspired by the British special services. This movement does not know of such a thing as respect for the elders, respect for elders, respect for national customs. They neglect all of this. Wahhabism is an example of Islamic puritanism. Tatar intelligentsia, which seeks self-identification, can expect a national tragedy. Any departure from Russia will create a number of problems for these people. If they find themselves in the legislative space, where only one of the trends in Islam will be defended, not the most dominant, then this will be a regression.

The ideas of Wahhabism have nothing in common with ancient Islam. It is the same as comparing ancient Orthodoxy with some Jehovism or the “White Brotherhood” movement. Tatars must understand that they will find themselves in a sectarian trap, from which they themselves will not be selected. Those who are lobbying for nationalist laws in Tatarstan will attack this rake, which they themselves have laid out against themselves.
Originator:
http://ruskline.ru/news_rl/2013/08/23/tatary_dolzhny_ponyat_chto_oni_okazhutsya_v_sektantskoj_lovushke/
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  1. GreatRussia
    GreatRussia 25 September 2013 07: 17 New
    20
    The ideas of Wahhabism have nothing to do with ancient Islam.

    But they are directly related to the marsh-orange tusna:

    Sergei Udaltsov called on the opposition to unite with the separatists and fundamentalists of Tatarstan.

    http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1560823.html


    http://vz.ru/news/2012/8/2/591497.html

    This reptile should be crushed in the bud, and not flirt with it.
    1. Civil
      Civil 25 September 2013 07: 36 New
      +7
      By contrasting the Tatars with the Russians, the author cuts down the foundations of modern Russia. Look how Kazan was rebuilt and ennobled, and the whole republic, recently I went there as a tourist! It’s immediately obvious that the local elite IS GOING TO LIVE THERE and not to take loot to London and offshore. And Tatneft was not given to the rootless cosmopolitans from Nerezinovsk, like other regions that live on handouts from the Fed. The budget.
      1. Sadikoff
        Sadikoff 25 September 2013 08: 10 New
        +5
        National republics are a passing stage, and when it is necessary to solve it, not enlarging but not breaking up by nations. You can wait until the abscess ripens and use it as an excuse. And you can just take all instigators as a weak spot, after tearing Turkey off from foreign supplies, for who knows who is standing.
      2. avt
        avt 25 September 2013 09: 40 New
        +7
        Quote: Civil
        By contrasting the Tatars with the Russians, the author cuts down the foundations of modern Russia.

        Do not look for a black cat in a dark room, Stenyaev is a rather colorful personality, he is quite educated and one of the few in the Russian Orthodox Church who really came across sectarians of different stripes, like Berestov. a religious topic enters and argues in detail, with references to the Torah and the Koran, it is difficult with it, owns the primary sources not in translation. There was a case - the "pastors" from the supporters of the Amersa sect tried to pile on him, but the skinny ones turned out to be a bummer, he is a former fighter.
      3. Ruslan_F38
        25 September 2013 10: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        By contrasting the Tatars with the Russians, the author cuts down the foundations of modern Russia.


        The author raises a problem that is hushed up by the current government, headed by the GDP. It is the behavior of the Tatarstan authorities described above that will lead to the collapse of the country, to its radical Islamization, the growth of radical sentiments, the terrorist threat, and the emergence of the Wahhabi underground! Apparently you take the uncontrolled separatist processes in the republics of the Tatarstan type that are already almost uncontrolled by Moscow as the basis of modern Russia? Bravo. Then you can sing the praises of the "great" Tatarstan, soon you will go there on a visa!

        Look how Kazan was rebuilt and ennobled, and the whole republic, recently I went there as a tourist! It’s immediately obvious that the local elite IS GOING TO LIVE THERE and not to take loot to London and offshore. And Tatneft was not given to the rootless cosmopolitans from Nerezinovsk, like other regions that live on handouts from the Fed. The budget.


        Why not rebuild it with money from the federal budget! The main loot from the oil industry has long been in the accounts of London and other banks owned by the Shaimiev families and other local oligarchs. Shaimiev has his own bank in London and it's not a secret. You judge the processes in the Republic by the beautiful wrapper, and not by the current realities. "Local elite"? Do you even know how these people relate to the rest of Russia and Russians? Hatred and contempt is how it can be characterized. Why would they leave? They already have the center by playing the national card as they want and when they want. (Regarding national politics, I recommend reading the main ideologist of the Tatarstan Kremlin, Rafael Khakimov.) And why should they give Tatneft if it already belongs to them, their companies? The entire oil - industrial complex was privatized long ago.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 10: 41 New
          +1
          Then you can sing the praises of the "great" Tatarstan, soon you will go there on a visa!

          You are all funny. Where do you find nationalism there? Three and a half Tatar sufferers are already a mirror of the whole nation? So you can row all under one comb)
          1. Ruslan_F38
            25 September 2013 10: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Basileus
            You are all funny. Where do you find nationalism there? Three and a half Tatar sufferers are already a mirror of the whole nation? So you can row all under one comb)

            Nobody speaks about all the people, do not distort, they talk about the separatist policy of the Tatarstan authorities and about the "elites" who support and implement it - there is no need for these processes so superficially, with irony - the processes taking place in the national republics are much deeper.
            Here is a link to the articles of the main ideologist of the national policy of Tatarstan Rafael Khakimov, who is very popular among the local "elites" - just read carefully: http: //www.intelros.ru/? Newsid = 203
            1. Basileus
              Basileus 25 September 2013 11: 01 New
              +1
              I read it, funny. Such stubborn articles appear here regularly (about mega-ancient Russians whom everyone offends), and, surprisingly, they receive support from local Russian commentators. is everywhere, but many people think with their heads too.
          2. Dober
            Dober 25 September 2013 11: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Basileus
            Three and a half suffering on the head of a Tatar

            It was "three and a half" ten years ago ... Yesterday there were three and a half dozen. Today (more precisely on October 2, on the day of the capture of Kazan by the troops of Ivan the Terrible) there will be three and a half hundred, tomorrow three and a half thousand ... etc. on the knurled ...
            Come and see ... In the meantime -

            ruskline.ru/monitoring_smi/2009/10/15/v_obide_na_ivana_groznogo/
            www.diletant.ru/news/6910551/
            www.peoples-rights.info/tatarskie-etnofanatiki-v-kaskax-nato-posylali-rossiyu-i-
            opredelyali-kakoj-zhe-yazyk-dlya-nix-rodnoj /
          3. dark_65
            dark_65 25 September 2013 22: 24 New
            -1
            Unfortunately, not funny, the mania there is rushing specific, they just don’t speak in the news.
          4. Ruslan_F38
            25 September 2013 22: 54 New
            0
            Quote: Basileus
            Then you can sing the praises of the "great" Tatarstan, soon you will go there on a visa!

            You are all funny. Where do you find nationalism there? Three and a half Tatar sufferers are already a mirror of the whole nation? So you can row all under one comb)
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 25 September 2013 12: 43 New
          -5
          Under Putin, the Tatar authorities were just squeezed, and indeed everything is calm here, the young people somehow all these independent moods to a damn, especially if it is going to a thread in Moscow.
      4. smile
        smile 25 September 2013 10: 43 New
        +4
        Civil
        A strange conclusion ... or maybe the author, on the contrary, opposes some local nationalists who cut the branch on which they sit, opposing themselves to the Russians and dreaming of "independence"? ...
        By the way, the author did not mention that in addition to the Wahhabis, the Turkish special services are very active there, trying to spread the "ideas of the Great Turan" here too ...
        At the beginning of the two thousandth, of course, the local nationalists were pinched, but did not calm down ... Islamization of society is in full swing (sometimes you just marvel at something like the 21st century ... although among young people it’s just a fashionable trend, they don’t believe anything) who wants to join. so to speak, to the basics, where is going to study? In Entu itself is Arabia, Qatar, and there they fall not only into the clutches of the Wahhabis, but into the claws of the special services of these states ...
        And yet, a tourist trip is very informative ... :))) the locals told you how good they are, unlike others? Where did you talk to the elite there? The national elite is there, that in Bashkiria is of a clan character (of course, to a lesser extent, as in the Caucasus). There, the rootless cosmopolitans will not break off, everything is taken away under a couple of families headed by the head of the republic ... and the Russians, of course, are pushed out of the feeder :))) Is this your ideal? And then, they do not live on handouts from the budget - the merit is not of their leadership, toughly tacked in the two thousandth, when the second Chechen ...
        By the way, in Bashkiria - in the nineties, there were 24% of Bashkirs, 25% of Tatars, and 50% of Russians (figures from memory), in Tatarstan - about the same, but the entire leadership of the republics is titular, thank God that even now they have stopped talking about the state language and they talk less about Russian occupiers ...
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 11: 48 New
          +1
          24% of Bashkirs, 25% of Tatars, and 50% of Russians

          Chuvashs, Mordovians, Udmurts, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Latvians and other minorities - is this, then, all Russians?))
          1. smile
            smile 25 September 2013 12: 46 New
            +1
            Basileus
            The rest, firstly, there are very few, and secondly, in every republic, where the titular nationalists take the upper hand, all the rest pass into the category of "Russian-speaking" and the titular ones treat them the same, as it was, for example, in the Baltic states or in the same Chechnya, where all non-titular ones passed into the category of "Russians". And in Lithuania all Russian-speakers considered themselves Russian.
          2. Avenger711
            Avenger711 25 September 2013 13: 21 New
            0
            And what not? And no one will check Che there for a Mordovian, who already considers herself a Russian for 3 generations.
    2. domokl
      domokl 25 September 2013 07: 37 New
      10
      Udaltsov is now looking for support in any counter-current. But the article is just about the basics of Islam in Tatarstan. We carefully ignore the problem, but everyone knows the Tatars, graduates of Arab religious educational institutions are frequent participants in Wahhabi gatherings ... And many young people are going to study.
    3. Basileus
      Basileus 25 September 2013 07: 37 New
      +5
      How many Tatars are at the rally. Straight popular movement. This photo is already a fact that the article is delusional.

      Well, Wahhabism is a delusional idea, especially outside the Arab world, because it was created with a specific purpose - to "liberate" the Middle East from the Turks. So for both the Turks and the Caucasians, this is a dead-end path. In this the author is right.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 25 September 2013 12: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: Basileus
        How many Tatars are at the rally. Straight popular movement. This photo is already a fact that the article is delusional.

        Well, Wahhabism is a delusional idea, especially outside the Arab world, because it was created with a specific purpose - to "liberate" the Middle East from the Turks. So for both the Turks and the Caucasians, this is a dead-end path. In this the author is right.

        Yes, I do not think that the idea of ​​Wahhabism in Tatarstan is a crazy idea, it is just relevant for today. remote villages are completely covered by adherents of this movement. and in cities with small glanders is advancing.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 12: 06 New
          +1
          I mean that Wahhabism, as a religious movement, is doubtful for non-Arabs in general. How can the Turks profess a branch of religion that was directed against them (specifically, the Turks, but this is not directly related to the issue)? This is if you do not go into details about the Hanbalites and Hanifits. Not to mention the fact that the words progress and Wahhabism are incompatible, which in the XNUMXst century also has considerable significance.
    4. Dober
      Dober 25 September 2013 07: 56 New
      +5
      Quote: GreatRussia
      Sergei Udaltsov called on the opposition to unite

      Not only he ...
      Diman Bulls Zilbertrudny in Kazan spoke about the prospects for the collapse of the country.
      “Russia has missed the moment when it was still possible to live as a single territory. It seems to me that Tatarstan today is in many respects an alien and lost territory. I am not saying that this will lead to territorial disintegration. The United States, for example, sits very tightly together. But the United States, in which everyone has their own laws and rights, we will probably come to this. Tatarstan is an enclave within Russia. The enclave is in many ways Tatar, Islamic. To make one hundred percent Russian out of it will not work and it is not necessary ... ”

      No longer quietly, not carefully, without reservations, but unequivocally and unequivocally. And what is most important, it is no longer Mr. "daredevils", marginals and pea jesters, who are flirting with radicals. These are the leading chatterboxes of the liberal Moscow crowd. True, if something happens, those who have the opportunity to refer to the “specifics of poetic thinking” - in this sense, candidates are selected wisely - but it is hardly worth deceiving: in fact, through his lips the unspoken bosses of the aforementioned party send the authorities of Tatarstan a proposal in the style of EBENi “Take so much sovereignty, how much you can carry. But help us "

      Here's another such imperfection, only the ancient one - Tufan Minnulin.
      June 9, 2011 at the next rally of parents demanding a change in their attitude to the Russian language, he showed himself in front of the speakers. "Playwright" and an ardent nationalist - whoever called him there, chaplana.
      Accusing the protesters of “pressure on the Tatar people”, he said: “I am Tatar! My mission is to protect the Tatar people, not in the sense of law, legally, but of language, culture. Because I am a writer of this people. And the Russians have no writers. And you don’t have any artists. Astafyev was, but, thank God, he died ”

      Well, what to do with this? It remains to be treated with chlorpromazine ...
    5. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 25 September 2013 08: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: GreatRussia
      Sergei Udaltsov called on the opposition to unite with the separatists and fundamentalists of Tatarstan.

      Does anyone else listen to this schizo?
      As soon as the Isoamists receive the snot in the world, their entire Islamization will fail. Now it is more likely not faith, but the fashion of the time.
      1. Aryan
        Aryan 25 September 2013 10: 34 New
        +2
        Then I would argue ...
        I have a friend Anver- he is a Tatar from Kazan
        and a stronger patriot of Russia as he I do not know
        largely thanks to him, I ended up on our resource
        1. Ruslan_F38
          25 September 2013 10: 44 New
          +3
          Quote: Aryan
          I have comrade Anvertatar from Kazan
          so a stronger patriot of Russia as he I do not know

          And no one says that there are no patriots among the Tatars - there are, of course, but for the most part these are people who do not affect any processes in the Republic and are not included in the "elites", or they are silent in a rag, realizing that they will lose everything if will oppose the authorities - examples of the sea.
          Do not have any illusions, I can’t judge your comrade, but in most cases such patriotism is most likely from the series "call it what you want, just let me earn money."
    6. bodriy
      bodriy 25 September 2013 12: 56 New
      +1
      I was born and live in Tatarstan, and there is no Wahhabism and is not observed !!! who does not believe come to visit wink It’s good here, the Caucasians don’t particularly greet! By the way, there are fewer immigrants from the Caucasus than in the native Russian regions! He would have thought better of it!
      1. alone
        alone 25 September 2013 22: 12 New
        0
        what the fact is there. those who have already forgotten, I remind. The catalyst for the collapse of the USSR was inter-ethnic conflicts and separatism. Apparently those who destroyed the union decided
        use the same method. they can be understood. and you know why?

        THIS ONCE ALREADY WORKED. so be careful.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 25 September 2013 07: 25 New
    +5
    It has long been said that Islamic sectarians settled in Mecca and that they, with the help of Western intelligence agencies, are stirring up water throughout the Muslim world.
  4. EGORKA
    EGORKA 25 September 2013 07: 39 New
    0
    In our time, sovereignty is a relative concept, the USA has it to a greater degree, small countries are always under someone, mainly the USA, or as correctly noted in the article under fanatic sects. Moreover, Tatarstan is inside Russia and plus half the population are Russians and others, plus the whole economy is tied to Russia and Tatarstan is clearly not offended by the attention of the center, so it’s stupid not to understand that Russia wants-you don’t want Tatarstan to give to anyone, it’s not even Grozny, who will take Kazan from the edge) And in general, it’s time for Putin to do that so that the subjects who have gained a lot of sovereignty under the EBN have returned it back, and this is not only Tatarstan, it will be better for everyone, there will be less reason for speculation.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 25 September 2013 07: 43 New
      +4
      The United States, imagine, gave their states so much sovereignty in the first place as much as even the Soviet republics had never seen, not even as subjects. And nothing, they live, even without reason for speculation. Maybe it's not sovereignty?
      1. smile
        smile 25 September 2013 10: 58 New
        0
        Basileus
        1. The states are not created on a national basis.
        2. The United States has always defended and will protect the integrity of the state by all possible and impossible methods — no one will just let it separate. until the state collapses
        3. If the United States lost the Cold War, they would have collapsed all their fifty pieces and pieces .. a nation like this, see what a wave of looting and banditry there rises during natural disasters.
        4. Against the United States did not work purposefully for the collapse on a national basis, using the resources of half the planet for over a century ... look, who created the Ukrainian secessionists? Look at the English policy towards the peoples of the Caucasus back in the 19th century, at the action of the Nazis ... at their successors from the USA, who used all the achievements of the Reich (thanks to Helen) ....
        In the light of the above, your argument seems to be incorrect.
      2. Ruslan_F38
        25 September 2013 11: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Basileus
        The United States, imagine, gave their states so much sovereignty in the first place as much as even the Soviet republics had never seen, not even as subjects. And nothing, they live, even without reason for speculation. Maybe it's not sovereignty?


        What an unsuccessful comparison, Russia and the United States - how can a country and a territorial misunderstanding be compared? The mentality in general is like from different planets.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 11: 56 New
          +1
          This "territorial misunderstanding", by the way, is the first economy in the world. But really, since there is a misunderstanding - so be it.
  5. awg75
    awg75 25 September 2013 07: 40 New
    +5
    suppress nationalists as cruelly as possible --- otherwise we get the second and third Chechnya and Dagestan
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 25 September 2013 07: 46 New
      +6
      Yes, you have to read idiotic articles and believe in them. And it doesn’t matter that most Tatars in the grave saw this nationalism.

      The penetration of Wahhabi movements into Islamic regions is the real problem.
      1. smile
        smile 25 September 2013 11: 04 New
        +1
        Basileus
        If you do not pay attention to the problem, the minority will quickly grow ... out, in the Baltic states earlier the majority were also for the UNION and the friendship of peoples ... in Chechnya, by the way, too .... but they missed the problem, and hello. Let’s miss now, we’ll get hi again ... it’s time to start learning from our mistakes, rather than yelling about idiotic articles ...
      2. Ruslan_F38
        25 September 2013 11: 08 New
        -2
        Quote: Basileus
        Yes, you have to read idiotic articles and believe in them. And it doesn’t matter that most Tatars in the grave saw this nationalism.

        The penetration of Wahhabi movements into Islamic regions is the real problem.


        For what you put the pros - it is not clear.

        Nationalism (French nationalisme) is an ideology and a policy direction, the fundamental principle of which is the thesis of the value of a nation as the highest form of social unity and its primacy in the state-building process. As a political movement, nationalism seeks to uphold the interests of a certain national community in relations with state power.

        At its core, nationalism preaches fidelity and devotion to its nation, political independence and work for the benefit of its own people, cultural and spiritual growth, the unification of national identity for the practical protection of the living conditions of the nation, its territory of residence, economic resources and spiritual values ​​[2]. It relies on a national feeling that is akin to patriotism. This ideology seeks to unite the various layers of society, despite the opposing class interests. It was able to ensure the mobilization of the population for common political goals during the transition to a capitalist economy.

        Due to the fact that many modern radical movements emphasize their nationalistic coloring, nationalism is often associated with ethnic, cultural and religious intolerance (or any other hostility to ethnic "others"). Such intolerance is condemned by proponents of moderate currents in nationalism.

        The Russian media often call ethnonationalism “nationalism”, especially its extreme forms (chauvinism, xenophobia, etc.), which emphasize the superiority of one nationality over the rest [3]. Many manifestations of extreme ethno-nationalism, including inciting ethnic hatred and ethnic discrimination, are international offenses.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 11: 42 New
          +1
          Have you read the last two paragraphs of your quote? "For what they put pluses to you, it is not clear" (c)
          1. Ruslan_F38
            25 September 2013 13: 01 New
            0
            Quote: Basileus
            Have you read the last two paragraphs of your quote? "For what they put pluses to you, it is not clear" (c)

            And you? Everyone understands the extent of their depravity right?
            1. Basileus
              Basileus 25 September 2013 15: 55 New
              +1
              There, in fact, it is written how nationalism is presented to the majority of the population and what is most often understood by it at present.
      3. Ruslan_F38
        25 September 2013 13: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Basileus
        Yes, you have to read idiotic articles and believe in them. And it doesn’t matter that most Tatars in the grave saw this nationalism.

        The penetration of Wahhabi movements into Islamic regions is the real problem.


        The penetration of Wahhabi movements and their almost free distribution among the population of Tatarstan is the result, the consequence, of the destructive national policy of the authorities of the Republic and ignoring of these problems by the security forces and Moscow.
  6. EGORKA
    EGORKA 25 September 2013 07: 59 New
    +2
    Quote: Basileus
    The United States, imagine, gave their states so much sovereignty in the first place as much as even the Soviet republics had never seen, not even as subjects. And nothing, they live, even without reason for speculation. Maybe it's not sovereignty?

    The United States and we are a bit different worlds) a different history and mentality. In addition, Texas there is also no, no, it wants to separate. Therefore, I say that the constitutions of the republics within the Russian Federation should not contradict the constitution of the Russian Federation. There should be less reason for any free moods and speculation.
  7. mirag2
    mirag2 25 September 2013 08: 03 New
    +5
    God forbid, the Tatars are friends to me. Since birth I grew up with the Tatars next to me, and my best friend is a Tatar (really an atheist). And his grandfather and grandmother were Muslims, I remember in their house pictures with mosques and in Arabic. And with When I was a child, I ate all kinds of Tatar pastries, donuts and whites and triangles, some kind of little things. And we stole horse sausage from his grandfather's children while it was dry. It’s so delicious that I still buy horse meat (in a store where halal is for sale) .
    But the matter is not in my childhood, but in general, we live together with the Tatars, and quarreling us is just as foul as quarreling with Ukraine.
    But there are ways, of course, to say, the Tatars kept Russia under the yoke for 300 years, and now it oppresses you and that’s it.
    And there are a lot of such options.
    One good thing is that the mayor of Kazan managed to develop the Internet at his own place. People will know more, they will be smarter, and they themselves will understand what's what.
  8. Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 25 September 2013 08: 04 New
    +1
    Archpriest Oleg Stenyaev: "Tatars must understand that they will be in a sectarian trap"
    Pop Stenyaev casts a shadow on the wattle fence .. Most Tatars understand everything perfectly. And they won’t get any Wahhabis.
    Quote: EGORKA
    In general, it would be time for Putin to start to ensure that the subjects who, under the EBN, grabbed a lot of sovereignty, brought it back
    Do you have any other problems? fool Tatarstan is one of the few regions of the Russian Federation where the situation is more or less normal. Do not scratch where it does not scratch.
    Vadim Evgenievich Kozlov, a teacher at the Kazan Federal University, somehow during a lecture, told me that Tatarstan would have left the Russian Federation if it had external borders, but was not inside the country.
    By the way, many criticize the policy of the Bolsheviks in the field of national construction, but in the situation with the transfer of Orenburg from Kazakhstan to the RSFSR, they acted strategically correctly. If Tatarstan and Bashkortostan bordered on Kazakhstan, it is highly likely that at present they would not be part of the Russian Federation.
    P.S. My opinion is the opinion of an amateur, so do not blame me. Who can, let him correct hi
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 25 September 2013 08: 13 New
      +5
      We don't need Wahhabis, but the number of "chupa-chups" on the street (in Ufa) is scary. More precisely, the growth of this very amount. Some five or seven years ago, seeing a girl in a hijab was an event. Now you can meet them every day, just walking around the city. The people forget their roots, they forget that we never had such clothes, and such customs too. It's really scary. The arrival of Wahhabism is the result of the collapse of local spiritual education and the influx of bearded people from Arabia to the vacated place.

      As for the separation ... This is a moot point. If the same Bashkortostan had at least a part of the Chelyabinsk region, it could have seceded, because it would have some potential that it could independently realize. But separation is stupid, at least because within Russia it is much more profitable if Tatarstan and Bashkortostan are at least near the border, even inside.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 25 September 2013 08: 22 New
        +2
        Quote: Basileus
        but the number of "chupa-chups" on the street (in Ufa) is scary. More precisely, the growth of this very amount. Some five or seven years ago, seeing a girl in a hijab was an event. Now you can meet them every day, just walking around the city.
        The situation is absolutely similar in Kazakhstan. "Khidhabization", to put it mildly, is annoying. We now have a heated discussion in society (Internet) on this issue.
        Quote: Basileus
        The people forget their roots, forget that we never had such clothes, and such customs too.
        With the collapse of the USSR, an ideological vacuum formed and it is successfully filled, including Wahhabis ...
        1. avt
          avt 25 September 2013 10: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Alibekulu
          The situation is absolutely similar in Kazakhstan. "Khidhabization", to put it mildly, is annoying. We now have a heated discussion in society (Internet) on this issue.

          Oh how! Why then don't you suggest to yourself, don't put a shadow on the fence "!" She, This misfortune is the same for everyone and you shouldn't brush it off, as events in the Levant show. - “They strangled his wife in front of him, and he stood nearby and said - be patient, maybe it will be okay.”
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 25 September 2013 10: 33 New
            +1
            Quote: avt
            Why don't you suggest to yourself, don't put a shadow on the fence!


            Yes, everything is clear, he writes about itching

            Quote: Alibekulu
            If Tatarstan and Bashkortostan bordered on Kazakhstan, it is highly likely that at present they would not be part of the Russian Federation.


            1. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu 25 September 2013 20: 21 New
              +2
              Quote: Vadivak
              Yes, everything is clear, he writes about itching

              About yet another umnikus laughing
              Shaw still say, older ?! Though you will raise my mood .. good
              As for the "Tatars must understand" - someone, but the Tatars do not need to be taught and instructed, they are "with a mustache" ... And the majority of Tatars are not delighted with the "Wahhabis".
              Quote: Ruslan_F38
              For what you put the pros - it is not clear.
              For not shouting "Hurray" and "Everything is lost", "We are oppressed everywhere."
              Quote: avt
              Oh how! And then why don't you suggest to yourself, don't put a shadow on the fence !? Nah, This trouble is one for everyone and to brush it off
              Nda recourse like an adult, a respected person .., and there ...
      2. Dober
        Dober 25 September 2013 11: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: Basileus
        Some five or seven years ago, to see a girl in a hijab was an event.

        Exactly good And surprising, but not always pleasing to the eye.
        I always said, and I’ll also say on occasion -
        "Why did you so quickly exchange the national CLOTHES for alien robes? Women colorful skirts, scarves, pants; men bright shiny skullcaps for" dark sheets and hemispherical caps "...
        Earlier, on Sabantuy, the eye rejoices at the abundance of flowers in the outfits, but now it is wrapped up in torso and gloomy bearded faces. Previously, the girls laughed, spun and danced, and now they walk - the asphalt is sweeping in hem ...
    2. Dober
      Dober 25 September 2013 08: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Pop Stenyaev casts a shadow on the wattle fence .. Most Tatars understand everything perfectly. And they won’t get any Wahhabis.

      If Tatarstan was on the borders of Russia, then these separatist sentiments would sound much more loudly.
      We can name several nationalist Tatar associations.
      Firstly, it is the oldest organization since Soviet times - the Tatar Community Center (TOTs).
      Secondly, the equally old organization "Milli Mejlis" - "the national government in exile", which includes both Russian Tatars and foreign ones. Well, the youth movement - the Union of Tatar Youth "Azatlyk". There are also various Internet associations that exist only virtually, but are already taking to the streets: "Tatar Front", "Right Tatars".

      But do you know anything about foreign influence?
      There is support for separatism from there, and its volume should not be underestimated. The support is mainly informational - through the radio "Azatlyk" ("Freedom"), whose edition is located in Prague and whose activities are officially funded by the US Congress. Often there are foreign trips to which nationalists go at the expense of the host country.
      For some, ideology is based not just on separatism, but on hyperplanes. "Right Tatars", for example, understand "independent Tatarstan" not within its present borders, but much broader. For example, in their view there is Eastern Tatarstan, in which they include the Tyumen region. Their plan is to separate from Russia those territories that were once part of the Golden Horde, and to create an independent Tatar state in this space.
      Some separatists have more modest plans - the independence of Tatarstan in its current administrative-territorial borders. TOC has recently taken a more moderate position, although initially they were separatists. Their rhetoric changed with the policies of the federal center. First for an independent state, then for the special status of Tatarstan (associated with Russia), then for a confederation, then for a federation. Now they are active federalists.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 25 September 2013 20: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: IRBIS
        Suddenly go out.
        There would be access to external borders, and you would leave them too — I wouldn’t do it ..
        It's just that the Tatars are "clever" and understand that in connection with the prevailing geographical position, sovereignty loses its meaning - the Russian Federation can simply strangle them with a blockade. Currently, the elite of the Tatars has abandoned separatist intentions, but having bargained for significant preferences from the CENTER .. Now the Tatars position themselves as the second nation in Russia ...
        Quote: IRBIS
        And Kozlov V.E. it would be worth a head to think before sowing the seeds of separatism in lectures.
        In fact, Vadim Evgenievich is Russian by nationality and situevina in Tatarstan, he clearly does not like the grain and separatism, he certainly does not sow ..
        Savva30, Nayhas, Agent 008 Hmm, adequate Russians?!?! Respect and respect drinks (I'm calling for familiarity)
        Quote: Nayhas
        faith in the infinitely blue sky of Tengri.
        With this topic to the Kazakhs laughing do not miss ..
        Quote: ivachum
        And about the borders ... but what is your option: Tatarstan is uniting with Bashkortostan. Diasporas in the Orenburg and Chelyabinsk regions (and there are as if not 30-40% of them) decide to separate from them and unite with the "brothers".
        Not miracles but .. belay
        Quote: smile
        and close their eyes to them very dangerous embers can initiate
        Damn, you know a nationalist on national issues. And the reaper, and the reader, and the dude on the pipe ..
        Quote: Ruslan_F38
        Islamists walk around Kazan
        Well, a couple of cranks walks .. well, let them go further themselves ..
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 25 September 2013 20: 48 New
          -2
          hi Alibek I look in Russia You are fighting for the Tatars alone laughing as I understand the student years oblige? on the topic, writing there seems to be nothing of a Muslim sect is dangerous, though I have always believed that the Tatars are strong in the traditional faith, unlike us Kazakhs and less susceptible to new and old trends in Islam. True, there are no Tatars on the branch, but only experts from the Russian side.
          1. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 25 September 2013 21: 36 New
            +1
            Quote: Semurg
            Hi Alibek
            Salem Sagat hi
            Quote: Semurg
            there’s nothing to write on the topic
            The situation in Tatarstan is almost identical to the situation in Kazakhstan .. Analogies beg with the naked eye ..
            This is ridiculous, but in Tataria, Russians also believe that they are being oppressed and squeezed out .. request Many Tatars who in Russian are not belmes belay
            Just like we have both shala and uratatars .. and a fashion for "hijabs". I think that both Kazakhs and Tatars will get sick with this, as there was a fashion for "Russian"
            Quote: Semurg
            less susceptible to us
            I agree. The Tatars, in comparison with the Kazakhs, are less amenable to outside influence, as it seems to me.
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 25 September 2013 21: 56 New
              +2
              Yes, my school friend told me about the situation in Tatarstan, he stayed, and his two brothers left with the union in Tatarstan. He also says that the only difference is very similar, there are no konraty and dulat laughing
              1. Semurg
                Semurg 26 September 2013 14: 19 New
                +1
                Alibek, I apologize because of my post, the "glamorous" one clung to you, but I hope for you this is his usual hobby. laughing
          2. smile
            smile 25 September 2013 22: 04 New
            0
            Semurg
            Hello, yes, no, he does not fight for the Tatars, no one fights with the Tatars and does not offend them, the Tatars are not offended ... by the way, there are very few believers among them, a guy can’t get past any topic, if there’s anything something bad to say about the Russians - this is not a battle - this is an ordinary disease ... :)))
            1. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu 25 September 2013 22: 25 New
              0
              Quote: smile
              he does not fight for the Tatars
              Here you are right, there is no need to protect the Tatars - they themselves want someone on their land ..
              Quote: smile
              the guy can’t get past any topic, if there is anything bad to say about the Russians-
              It is interesting to hear from the mouth of a half-breed neophyte .. recourse
              As for "can not pass by and Russophobe" just count the number of my comments and Smiley and I think the diagnosis can be made with the naked eye .. What is interesting, my friends urra-Kazakhs called me - trotter (Russophile) ..
              In general, I try to write comments where somehow in the subject, and when people like you Smile write all sorts of nonsense, so that not only one point of view would be presented
              Quote: smile
              ... okay ... free ... you can start learning to count to fifteen ...
              Do you want to insult me ​​?! laughing
              Uzba.. and do not strain "friend" ..
              1. smile
                smile 26 September 2013 03: 29 New
                0
                Alibekulu
                yes, the Tatars, who can absolutely rightly say that Kaliningrad is also their land, since they are citizens of Russia, cannot be offended by a part of the Russian land called Tatarstan — that land where there are less than half of them, that land where we live with them over the centuries...
                And I’m not a half-breed, I’m a third-grade ... :))) What a neophyte I am, if I’m 42, if I was raised by my grandfather, as a Soviet person, and as a Russian ... that Russian is grateful to some Lithuanians for this, forcing all non-Lithuanians-Georgians, Mordovians, Tatars, etc. consider yourself Russian ... :)))
                Reading my comments is probably very useful, you know better ... it’s even more useful to read their text. and come to the conclusion that if there were no Russophobes here, my comments would be very few ... would you like to reduce the number of my statements? it's very simple, stop spitting in the Russians, and I will silently put you the pluses ... :)))
                Have you really learned to count to fifteen? What, now the cartoon about the goat has become irrelevant? ... Nooo, I won't believe in life, people like you don't change, and they don't learn anything ... and I don't offend you, hrrn you surrendered to me ...: ))) so that we calmly continue to watch the cartoon about the "goat who could count to ten" ... and I insist, free! :)))
                1. Alibekulu
                  Alibekulu 26 September 2013 07: 59 New
                  +2
                  Quote: smile
                  yes, Tatars, who can absolutely rightly say that Kaliningrad is also their land
                  For Kaliningrad, which Koenigsberg had a conversation at all ?! winked My friend brings you somewhere to the side ..
                  Quote: smile
                  yes Tatars, .. since they are citizens of Russia, cannot be offended by part of the Russian land referred to as Tatarstan-the land where there are less than half of them, the land where we have lived together with them for centuries ...
                  At your post, it turns out that the Tatars were offended by Tatarstan ?!
                  Quote: smile
                  it's very simple - stop spitting in russian
                  Stop vilifying non-Russians yourself, I express my opinion, and you are carried away by the "glamorous" you are ours ..
                  Quote: smile
                  so that we calmly continue to watch the cartoon about "a goat who could count to ten" ..
                  Your favorite movie?! It’s clear with you.
                  Quote: smile
                  as you do not change, and do not learn anything ...
                  Is this your self-portrait ?! You know, and I am an optimist .. here they have taught some not to water Kazakhstan and its citizens in vain, so we "civilize" you too ...
                  Quote: smile
                  ... and I do not insult you, on hrrren you surrendered to me ...
                  You have a contradiction in this text - at the beginning you write that you are not insulting and then immediately send .. fool .. laughing Or on hrrren - a good Russian word ?! Yes, and about on hrrren - Do not send normal people to where you are, we have obviously different tastes .. wink
                  Quote: smile
                  I insist-free!
                  Who is holding you ?! fool Goodbye ..
        2. smile
          smile 25 September 2013 22: 00 New
          0
          Alibekulu
          Wah, they counted me ... :))) remember the cartoon about a kid who knew how to count? ... such a cute kid ... and the reality turned out to be much more unsightly ... :)))
          Are you, sir, as a professional Russophobe - and for those and for these, for anyone, if only against the Russians ... :))) and I am a specialist ... and do not entertain yourself with illusions - only the republics that had the right-territory of the Russian Federation would have remained untouched - they would have crushed ... and even brainless barrrans among the Tatars and Bashkirs who succumbed to nationalist fervor turned out to be not so much, as many as the Russians ...... well ... free ... you can start learning to count to fifteen ... :)))
    3. avt
      avt 25 September 2013 10: 12 New
      +4
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Do you have any other problems?

      There are and do not want others, more bloody. It is better to organize the industrial production of holy water at the first smell of sulfur, just in case. Especially since local sane Islamic priests warned about this back in the 90s.
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Pop Stenyaev casts a shadow on the wattle fence ..

      “Pop” Stenyaev, as he said earlier, is a real practice in communicating with sectarians of different stripes, such, unlike the Kuraevs, in the Russian Orthodox Church. You may disagree, but he is really in a religious topic, and in primary sources without translation. as answered both Muslims and Jews in their own language.
    4. IRBIS
      IRBIS 25 September 2013 10: 14 New
      +5
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Tatarstan is one of the few regions of the Russian Federation where the situation is more or less normal.

      You can’t argue with that.
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Do not scratch where it does not scratch.

      When it starts to itch, it will be too late. In the Caucasus, it didn’t seem to itch, only then suddenly I immediately had to attract "surgeons".
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Vadim Evgenievich Kozlov, a teacher at the Kazan Federal University, somehow during a lecture, told me that Tatarstan would have left the Russian Federation if it had external borders, but was not inside the country.

      Suddenly go out. And Kozlov V.E. it would be worth a head to think before sowing the seeds of separatism in lectures.
      Quote: Alibekulu
      If Tatarstan and Bashkortostan bordered on Kazakhstan, it is highly likely that at present they would not be part of the Russian Federation.

      But if my grandmother had eggs ...
  9. EGORKA
    EGORKA 25 September 2013 08: 09 New
    +1
    In general, God grant us reason, not to do stupid things and finally understand that together we are stronger! Indeed, examples of the opposite before our eyes ...
  10. predator.3
    predator.3 25 September 2013 08: 12 New
    +7
    Quote: Basileus
    Penetration of Wahhabi movements into Islamic regions is the real problem


    Exactly! This is not a problem of the people (Tatars or Bashkirs), but a jamb of law enforcement bodies and the leadership of the Muslim clergy, for a long time it was necessary to create their own local higher educational institutions, and not send young people to study in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and complete everyone of these mullahs and imams, or rather, certification among them, and among them there are a lot of crooks, especially in the countryside, yesterday's bastard retired, learned a couple of surahs from the Qur'an and considers himself, as they say holier than the pope! Yes, and if you look closely parishioners of mosques, from local ones there are only old people, but young people are mainly Gaster from Asia and Caucasians.
  11. EGORKA
    EGORKA 25 September 2013 08: 21 New
    +2
    There are many problems, and the sooner the state begins to deal with them, the better.
  12. Savva30
    Savva30 25 September 2013 08: 22 New
    +1
    Tatarstan is pursuing a correct policy in the field of national policy and we have a lot to learn. They prioritize their people, their economy, their future, they do not impose their values ​​on others. They do not shout about their uniqueness, they just develop confidently. What prevents the ROC from supporting normal Russian nationalism, what prevents to stop the collapse of education, science, healthcare, what prevents to demand a ban on drugs, power engineers, juvenile justice, what prevents to support its people on the issues of "Pugachev", what ??? We prefer to rummage in someone else's ... I myself am Orthodox, but lately I have not seen the good activity of the ROC. Sadly, your people need you, they have plenty of their wounds.
    And the Tatars are great. In that year, the Tatarstan prosecutor’s office turned everything upside down and students received free textbooks, as expected. And we bought that year that this year. Who are we?
  13. Nayhas
    Nayhas 25 September 2013 08: 41 New
    -2
    Another attempt to scare the rotten bogey called "Wahhabism". Few people in the world generally understand what "Wahhabism" is and with what it is eaten. They absolutely do not understand this, and those who are accused of it. For example, in 2000. I tried to find out from the Chechens who the "Wahhabis" are, but did not receive any intelligible answer, the standard answer was "well, these are those who are fighting the Russians," while the respondents themselves recently surrendered their weapons, and before that they were quite cheerfully shooting at the Russians. "Wahhabism" has become a new sticker to replace "fascism." The USSR coined the term "fascism" to all its enemies, while even before Hitler came to power, all non-communist parties in Europe were called fascists. It was then that "fascism" was not firmly glued to the German Nazis, which in principle is not true, because this term is frankly Italian, and there was a huge difference between the Italian fascists and the German Nazis, they were united only by the totalitarian regimes.
    The current government was unable to give birth to anything original and, using the Soviet training manuals, gave birth to the term "Wahhabism" which glues to all Muslims who are dangerous to themselves, I would not be surprised if the term is applied to non-Muslims ...
    PS: For the sake of fairness, it should be admitted that the Americans also follow this path, all opponents in Afghanistan are necessarily "Taliban", despite the fact that they are often detachments of local princelings that are not related in any way to students from Pakistan. Or "Al Qaeda" which they see around every corner ...
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 25 September 2013 09: 11 New
      +1
      Wahhabism is the official religious movement of most of the states of Arabia, the extreme right and conservative. It is there that students from Russia and the countries of the former CIS study theology. we ourselves have a system of religious education collapsed. It is from there that they bring other people's views, books, mores, according to which they preach already here. If this is not Wahhabism, then what? Where do fundamentalists come from and what kind of trend do they preach?
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 25 September 2013 14: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: Basileus
        If this is not Wahhabism, then what?

        And where did you get that Wahhabism? Can Harijism, Zeidism, Ismailism, Pan-Islamism or Haji-Muridism? In Islam, there are many currents, probably more than in Christianity. What exactly one or another group professes is not clear to many, only it is available to imams. The authorities are the easiest to declare the notorious Wahhabis, because they have been scaring people for years and start to tighten the nuts. Tatars want to remain Tatars, what is bad for you personally? The national identity of the Tatars is developing, they consider themselves a separate ethnic group, not Russians, but Tatars. The Russians, by the way, also achieve this, but all attempts are immediately recognized by nationalism and thwarted. By the way, the Tatars have no unity, they are divided into pan-Islamists and Tengrians. Pan-Islamists believe that the true faith of Islam adopted by the Bulgars in the 10th century, Tengrians believe that the Tatars are the ancestors of the Mongol army and therefore true faith in the infinitely blue sky of Tengri. But basically the basic requirement is to give the opportunity to educate the Tatars by the Tatars, and not by the Russians. The authorities, instead of resolving the issue normally, behave in the way that the stupid bureaucratic apparatus of a totalitarian state can behave.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 15: 48 New
          +1
          Ahaha, you're funny. To begin with, the Chupa Chups on female heads have nothing to do with the fact that the Tatars want to remain Tatars. Judging by the clothes of some individuals, they strive to become Arabs.

          And Tengrians, by the way, are very few. This is how the current Rodnover considered a significant religious force.
  14. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 25 September 2013 09: 53 New
    0
    Hard times are coming ..... nationalists enjoy Russian disunity .... but they forget the main thing ..... Russians slowly harness, but quickly go
  15. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 25 September 2013 10: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: predator.3
    That's it! This is not a problem of the people (Tatars or Bashkirs), but a jamb of law enforcement bodies and the leadership of the Muslim clergy, it was long necessary to create their own local higher educational institutions, and not send young people to study in Saudi Arabia and Egypt

    I totally agree. But do not forget about the pressure on traditional Islam. At one time, a wave of murders (this is the news) of the theologians and clergy of traditional Islam passed.
  16. pv1005
    pv1005 25 September 2013 10: 59 New
    +2
    A flame will ignite from a spark. So you need to extinguish immediately. And after the fire, as they say, the pump.
  17. ivachum
    ivachum 25 September 2013 11: 06 New
    +2
    I am not a nationalist, I myself was born and raised in Kazan. But here's what I will say ... national separatism (served to us as federalism) must be crushing in the bud, at least with something ... at least with tanks. In 1992-93, Shaimiev outplayed Yeltsin, then the Tatar-Turkish nationalists did not have enough real strength, but they loved to shout in Freedom Square and punch the cops' heads, Shaimiev pretended to be a pro-Russian comrade, drove Bayramova to Turkey, but VTOTs did not disperse, on the contrary strengthened. Even the Turks-helpers pinched their tail. Moscow almost sounded with delight ... Only it was a powerful land mine planted for the future. And it is already beginning to be used by someone. What do we see now? A powerful industrial cluster with a developed agricultural sector, its own oil and gas, a powerful scientific potential of Kazan. Do you think the 2013 Universiade was in Russia? But no! She was in TATARSTAN. Simply put, Moscow itself worked on the prestige of Kazan. Tatarstan produces: aircraft (both military and civil), aircraft engines, helicopters, aircraft electronics, warships (Zelenodolsk). Automotive industry. And a lot. much more (even fuses and fuses for grenades, mines and artillery ammunition) Agriculture (except perhaps bananas and pineapples are imported) Processing industry. Compare all this with the same Chechnya ... Oil, yes there is. The gas is the same. But the rest? Shaimiev knew perfectly well that Tatarstan could then secede, but what next? Actually, even now, the "Tatars" cannot be separated from their hands ... only because of the events in the Middle East and the position of Russia, they are forced to "make noise", a kind of hint to Putin about not feeble circumstances. Therefore, press, as with anything ... An interesting feature ... well, Kazan is understandable, but where are the most "nationalistic" cities in Tatarstan? Nab. Chelny, Nizhnekamsk, Menzelinsk, Almetyevsk, Bugulma, Aznakaevo, Minibaevo Nurlat ... Now look at the map of oil fields ... Nab. Chelny (Elabuga) and Nizhnekamsk - automobile factories and petrochemicals (polymers, synthetic rubber, fuels and lubricants). Oil, money. "Out of control" money.

    And about the borders ... but what is your option: Tatarstan is uniting with Bashkortostan. Diasporas in the Orenburg and Chelyabinsk regions (and there are as if not 30-40% of them) decide to separate from them and unite with their "brothers". Here is the exit to Kazakhstan. And at that moment (no, well, it’s just in time!) We got into the Syrian conflict, Georgia once again attacked someone, Kadyrov built another mosque named after some abrek, the Pomors remembered that they were not Russians, the Nogays wanted Astrakhan and autonomy, etc. Enough for all the troops? Yes, there is also another Rossel with his Ural Republic ...
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 25 September 2013 11: 45 New
      -2
      There are few Tatars with Bashkirs outside the autonomies. Is that in the Chelyabinsk region, the former Argayash canton is inhabited mainly by Bashkirs, although even the stubborn Natsiks from the Kuk Bure are silent about it. In other regions, even neighboring ones, the percentage is very small. So there can be no trace of any "exit to Kazakhstan".
      1. Damascus
        Damascus 25 September 2013 14: 08 New
        +2
        There are more Tatars in Moscow than in Kazan
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 15: 54 New
          +1
          And how does this compare with the fact that the Tatars in neighboring regions are less than 10%, only in the Ulyanovsk region 12%? Nowhere do they represent a large percentage of the population.
          1. ivachum
            ivachum 25 September 2013 17: 29 New
            +1
            "Every day I walk around Kazan and I don't see any crowds of Wahhabis"

            - Do you see the gopher?
            - No.
            - And he is!
  18. slacker
    slacker 25 September 2013 11: 17 New
    0
    The Wahhabism movement is young for Islam, it arose in the XNUMXth century, inspired by the British secret services. This movement does not know such a thing as respect for elders, veneration of elders, respect for national customs.


    Wahhabis need to pay the same coin, mercilessly letting their livestock under the knife to one.
  19. Agent 008
    Agent 008 25 September 2013 12: 20 New
    +4
    I’m a Tatar, I have been living in Kazan all my life, and I will describe to you all the real situation: Every day I walk around Kazan and I don’t see any crowds of Wahhabists ... Yes, there are a bunch of nationalists, the same people for many years. They shout about some kind of Tatar people’s chosen people, and I don’t like them either ... European-style people walk around the streets, and people dressed in traditional Muslim clothes are not so common ... We have about mosques and churches equally, but families where one of the spouses is Russian or Tatar is a common occurrence ... Yes, there are difficulties, but where are they not? But in general, come to us in Kazan, live a little, you will see everything for yourself, otherwise it’s easy to judge from the outside ... With respect to all, Rashid ...
    1. smile
      smile 25 September 2013 12: 54 New
      +1
      Agent 008
      Hello. This is all clear, and no one is going to argue with you, but ... in the nineties it was much worse, you cannot not know about it. Now the separatist sentiments are in hiding, but they have not disappeared, and closing their eyes to them is very dangerous - embers can initiate a fire - this is a very real threat.
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 25 September 2013 15: 56 New
        +1
        A bunch of people prove to you that there are no or almost no nationalist phenomena in the Republic of Tatarstan and Belarus, but you persistently prove the opposite. Funny, isn't it?
        1. Ruslan_F38
          25 September 2013 17: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: Basileus
          A bunch of people prove to you that there are no or almost no nationalist phenomena in the Republic of Tatarstan and Belarus, but you persistently prove the opposite. Funny, isn't it?


          What's so funny here? A bunch of people is apparently you and agent 008? Your argument is similar to a performance in the Comedy Club, you happen to be from there? I did not see a single serious argument on your part, only laughter and jokes. You are an absolutely frivolous and incompetent person who claims to be a guru, and rather arrogant, with one goal - to distract people from the problem.
          1. Basileus
            Basileus 25 September 2013 17: 46 New
            0
            We have an Internet warrior who replicates news found on the Internet, but has never been to the scene. So your argument is not only weak - it is hopeless, and is based on articles of the same paranoid.
            1. Ruslan_F38
              25 September 2013 20: 56 New
              0
              Quote: Basileus
              We have an Internet warrior who replicates news found on the Internet, but has never been to the scene. So your argument is not only weak - it is hopeless, and is based on articles of the same paranoid.


              And you have an Internet clown who thoughtlessly defends the current government - apparently you serve for it, or have it from it, it's obvious. The reasoning for me and the members of the forum who do not pursue other goals except how to be heard and convey the truth to the rest is worthy, which I advise you to strive for - 52 pluses of the article at the time of this, my commentary, against 9 minuses - this says a lot and 8 of your supporters is your loss and those who support your position outright. Regarding the fact that I was not at the scene of the events - this is your speculation, or rather nonsense, since I have been living in Tatarstan all my life, I know about all the problems of the Republic set forth in the article and not stated by hearsay. I know practically all of this "elite" and those who hold power personally, as well as about the real state of affairs in this cesspool. I also know a lot of security officials. I'm just an independent person, not poor, and most importantly free from the rules of "behavior" in this cesspool. And on the "loot" and what they think of me to give a damn, well, you do not understand this, apparently.
              Safarov - the former Minister of the Interior, along with Timerzyanov - overslept the situation with the radicals in a clean, and you know why? Because they were engaged in earning money, and not in the fight against organized crime groups, as was presented in the media by ordinary users. The coalescence of power, crime and security forces led to events about which you apparently are not aware - the attempt on the mufti, the murder of his subordinate, the recruitment of militants in the central mosque of Kazan, the confrontation in the DUM, threats to religious leaders, and active gangs underground with which the government was able earlier negotiate, Nurlat and Kazan (housing) events and much more. You better tell us that everything in our Republic is ok and there are no radicals - to the family of the FSB special forces soldier who died during the assault (and the same one) who covered us at the cost of their lives from nonexistent militants in one of the residential districts of Kazan.
              1. Basileus
                Basileus 25 September 2013 21: 17 New
                +2
                I didn't say anything about radicals. More precisely, about their absence. If you could read, and not just scribble the posts so beloved by the locals about how bad everything is, you would have noticed that I am writing that there are radical Islamists, but most of the people do not support them. At least because they were brought up either on traditional values, or because they are generally atheists. The popularity of your posts is understandable - we hold assaholics in high esteem. A funny paradox - those who defend the position "will throw their hats" - too. It's just not clear whether everything is good with us or everything is bad))

                As for who you are, you can tell how much you fit. On the Internet you can lie with three boxes - still no one will check.
                1. Ruslan_F38
                  25 September 2013 22: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: Basileus
                  I didn't say anything about radicals. More precisely, about their absence. If you could read, and not just scribble the posts so beloved by the locals about how bad everything is, you would have noticed that I am writing that there are radical Islamists, but most of the people do not support them. At least because they were brought up either on traditional values, or because they are generally atheists. The popularity of your posts is understandable - we hold assaholics in high esteem. A funny paradox - those who defend the position "will throw their hats" - too. It's just not clear whether everything is good with us or everything is bad))


                  Dear, sorry, but you are clearly "moving out" from the topic - now the labels with cliches have appeared, bravo.
                  I look at you positively all the time and everything is fine with you - congratulations.
                  But seriously, the article raised a very serious problem, which I consider unacceptable not to notice.
                  1. Basileus
                    Basileus 25 September 2013 22: 35 New
                    +1
                    You started to get personal, and I did not fail to follow your example.
                    The fact that there are problems is visible. It just seems to me that the problem is not national, but religious, so we have a dispute.
        2. smile
          smile 25 September 2013 21: 41 New
          0
          Basileus
          Two cousins ​​and a cousin live in Ufa, Tatarstan is not far away. brother is a very good doctor (they are all three doctors, but my beloved girls are ordinary :)))) and they constantly go there to exchange experiences, and in general the republics are very connected and similar ... I am not often there. but they come to me regularly .. continue to continue? Moreover, I personally communicated with a much larger bunch of people, and a rather high-ranking one, obliged to be interested in the topic ... who should I believe in, your heap of three or your eyes and ears, eh? :))) And also with experience, in my eyes such pathetic movements seemed to turn into everything that was sweeping away in your path ... did your memory wander off? Have you forgotten what led carelessness to such trends?
          1. Basileus
            Basileus 25 September 2013 22: 38 New
            +2
            Well, show this stream. Well, not a stream - show a trickle. A rally for a hundred, a thousand people. A thousand is one ppm of the population of Ufa. Then I agree that the movement is noticeable. For ten thousand - I agree that it is dangerous and has support. Now what? A bunch of patients on the head of local Natsik? Let them amuse themselves - among Russians there are also such, but no flow is observed.
    2. Ruslan_F38
      25 September 2013 23: 40 New
      -2
      Quote: Agent 008
      I’m a Tatar, I have been living in Kazan all my life, and I will describe to you all the real situation: Every day I walk around Kazan and I don’t see any crowds of Wahhabists ... Yes, there are a bunch of nationalists, the same people for many years. They scream about some kind of chosen Tatar people, and I don’t like them either ...


      Well what can I tell you, house 2, live great, malachi, clubs, etc. etc. your programs and your life - and more about you - and his life is like fruit kefir, I’ve seen more than once ... Why strain your brain all is so good, congratulations!
  20. Ruslan_F38
    25 September 2013 12: 40 New
    -2
    Quote: Agent 008
    Every day I walk around Kazan and I don’t see any crowds of Wahhabists.


    Islamists walk around Kazan

    On the central Kazan street of Bauman, residents and guests of the capital of Tatarstan witnessed the appearance of people wearing T-shirts that depict the symbols of Hizb ut-Tahrir, Interfax-Religion reports.
    According to the agency, several Islamists with a characteristic appearance with beards ostentatiously walked along the streets. On the shirts of some of them it was written: "I want to live in a caliphate."
    “It is no coincidence that fundamentalists began to publicly demonstrate their paraphernalia on the anniversary of the July 19, 2012 terrorist attack, when the then mufti of Tatarstan, Ildus Fayzov, was wounded by an explosion in a car, and his deputy Valiulla Yakupov was shot at the entrance of his own home,” commented the new Kazan agency “ fashion ”the head of the Volga Center for Regional and Ethnic Religious Studies of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies Rais Suleimanov.
    According to him, in this way the radical Islamists "celebrate" their victory: "most of them are free, and they can now demonstrate their caliphate beliefs with the help of a new dress code."
    The Islamic scholar himself gives a disappointing forecast: the Universiade ended, during which the security of the event was "at a very high level", and the city was left by security officials who arrived from all over Russia to protect the calm of participants in sports games.
    “Isn’t it possible that the Islamists will try to take revenge, for which they first decided to make their squeak in the local fashion, and in the event of a natural outrage of the society and regulatory oversight bodies with such a new style of clothing, they will begin to accuse the siloviki of violating the rights of Muslims in the old fashioned way?” - R. Suleymanov asks a question, recalling that just the same year, fundamentalists went to pickets and rallies under demagogic statements about the persecution of Muslims.
    The activities of Hizb ut-Tahrir in 2003 were banned by the Russian Supreme Court on the territory of the country, and the organization itself was listed as terrorist.

    http://ruskline.ru/news_rl/2013/07/19/po_kazani_razgulivayut_radikalislamisty/
  21. Agent 008
    Agent 008 25 September 2013 14: 04 New
    +3
    In Kazan lives 1 million 300 thousand of the population, and if on the street. Bauman walked a few people with some slogans, then nothing has changed, absolutely Nothing! Several of these people will not decide anything, believe me. Nobody paid attention to them, not even the policemen, they are walking nearby in the photo ...
    1. Ruslan_F38
      25 September 2013 14: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: Agent 008
      In Kazan lives 1 million 300 thousand of the population, and if on the street. Bauman walked a few people with some slogans, then nothing has changed, absolutely Nothing! Several of these people will not decide anything, believe me. Nobody paid attention to them, not even the policemen, they are walking nearby in the photo ...

      You are wrong everything starts with small. The deindustrialization processes that are ongoing throughout the country are also ongoing in Tatarstan, which now relies on its own oil campaign. And when a significant part of the population drops out of the economy, this creates the conditions for the growth of protest moods, including the growth of radical Islam. It should be noted that in order to control its own oil company, the leadership of Tatarstan relied on soft separatism: currently it is almost the only region that has a special agreement that has the right to make inserts in the all-Russian passport.
      And in these conditions, the leadership of the republic actually encourages separatism, since it can, if necessary, be presented to the federal center. Plus, anti-Russian propaganda has been going on for twenty years, which reduces the Tatars to be victims of Russian occupation and repression.
      If certain people in Tatarstan really want to fight the power of Moscow, then due to their relatively small number in Russia, they have to rely on Islamic extremism, which is a global phenomenon - it will always have sponsors. Such a system of soft separatism, supported by the Tatar authorities, can lead to the triumph of Wahhabism in the republic.
  22. Wolf
    Wolf 25 September 2013 14: 30 New
    +3
    Јa Serb, and I’d like the brothers to tell you something! Didn’t you teach anything to those who beat Ugoslav? National antagonism force your enemies of your people! In fact, the nation is an artificial weight, it is made that the bi people will divide and it is easy to control. Do not believe in lies! Tatars? Tartari? or Slovenia? Tatars beat the Slavic tribe of today's Russians strong, and always beat us from the Balkan to Asia! Our history is much falsified; they have always beaten often our people!
    1. smile
      smile 25 September 2013 22: 16 New
      0
      Wolf
      Thank you.
      You are absolutely right. But the fact is that the same propaganda was launched against the Russians as was launched among the Yugoslav peoples against the Serbs. The article focuses on the fact that this should not be allowed to drift, and separatism and interethnic hostility must be suppressed.
      It’s not important to argue that the Tatars and the Russians are still different nations ... :))) - this is not important. It’s important that for the rest, you’re right - we have lived peacefully with them side by side for centuries (these are not Crimean Tatars) and there’s nothing to look for old grievances ... their nationalists are doing just that ... this, in our opinion, and should be nipped.
      Hello to the Serbs! Kosovo Serbian land!
  23. mithridate
    mithridate 25 September 2013 14: 34 New
    +1
    Western intelligence agencies are behind this. It is necessary to burn it with red-hot iron and give information about the connection of Wahhabism with the rotten west, and not to fuss and flirt, fearing accusations of inciting ethnic hatred
  24. Agent 008
    Agent 008 25 September 2013 14: 45 New
    +1
    Apparently someone really wants everyone to think that we have a "hotbed" of separatism ... And we have a NORMAL life, not counting street crime, as elsewhere. People go to work, to football, raise children ... Why scare people? Everything, close the topic, I'm tired of explaining ...
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 25 September 2013 15: 58 New
      0
      So fairy tales need to be told, people scared, Russian nationalists heated up. So come up with funny stories.
      1. Ruslan_F38
        25 September 2013 21: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Basileus
        So fairy tales need to be told, people scared, Russian nationalists heated up. So come up with funny stories.


        I will not be too lazy to add my comment above, so that after reading your "speech" people do not have a wrong opinion about your "talents" and that you express the opinion of the majority:

        Quote: Basileus
        We have an Internet warrior who replicates news found on the Internet, but has never been to the scene. So your argument is not only weak - it is hopeless, and is based on articles of the same paranoid.


        And you have an Internet clown who thoughtlessly defends the current government - apparently you serve for it, or have it from it, it's obvious. The reasoning for me and the members of the forum who do not pursue other goals except how to be heard and convey the truth to the rest is worthy, which I advise you to strive for - 52 pluses of the article at the time of this, my commentary, against 9 minuses - this says a lot and 8 of your supporters is your loss and those who support your position outright. Regarding the fact that I was not at the scene of the events - this is your speculation, or rather nonsense, since I have been living in Tatarstan all my life, I know about all the problems of the Republic set forth in the article and not stated by hearsay. I know practically all of this "elite" and those who hold power personally, as well as about the real state of affairs in this cesspool. I also know a lot of security officials. I'm just an independent person, not poor, and most importantly free from the rules of "behavior" in this cesspool. And on the "loot" and what they think of me to give a damn, well, you do not understand this, apparently.
        Safarov - the former Minister of the Interior, along with Timerzyanov - overslept the situation with the radicals in a clean, and you know why? Because they were engaged in earning money, and not in the fight against organized crime groups, as was presented in the media by ordinary users. The coalescence of power, crime and security forces led to events about which you apparently are not aware - the attempt on the mufti, the murder of his subordinate, the recruitment of militants in the central mosque of Kazan, the confrontation in the DUM, threats to religious leaders, and active gangs underground with which the government was able earlier negotiate, Nurlat and Kazan (housing) events and much more. You better tell us that everything in our Republic is ok and there are no radicals - to the family of the FSB special forces soldier who died during the assault (and the same one) who covered us at the cost of their lives from nonexistent militants in one of the residential districts of Kazan. Or specialists involved in special operations in Nurlat. Or operatives disentangling the situation with extremism in the republic due to corruption and incompetence of the former leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB, the authorities of the Republic.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 25 September 2013 21: 23 New
          +1
          I will be too lazy to copy my answer to this flight of fantasy, your "talents" are visible to the naked eye. Now please show me where the people express their all-round support for the militants, fundamentalists and other geeks? Well, at least a rally for a couple of thousand people like "we want independence" and "we will arrange a worldwide jihad." From your stream of consciousness, pouring throughout the entire discussion, it seems that if not every Tatar, then every second is definitely, gladly ready to adopt the Arab way of life, become a Hanbalite and start a jihad with separation from Russia.
          1. Ruslan_F38
            25 September 2013 22: 11 New
            0
            Quote: Basileus
            I will be too lazy to copy my answer to this flight of fantasy, your "talents" are visible to the naked eye.


            And it is not worth copying, because it is difficult to discern something valuable in your "postulates" with all the desire. hi

            Now please show me where the people express their all-round support for the militants, fundamentalists and other geeks? Well, at least a rally for a couple of thousand people like "we want independence" and "let's arrange a world jihad"


            Neither in my article do I have such statements - there is an assessment of the short-sighted national policy of the authorities and an assessment of the negative consequences that such a policy can lead to. In addition, there are facts confirming the emergence and growth of Islamic radical sentiments in the national republics and the growth in the number of their supporters. hi
            From your stream of consciousness pouring throughout the discussion, it seems that if not every Tatar, then every second one is definitely, gladly ready to adopt the Arab way of life, become a hanbalite and arrange jihad with separation from Russia.


            From my "stream of consciousness" as you have deigned to express it, this does not follow, neither I nor the article simply do not have such conclusions - these are your personal conclusions that are not based on anything, but in terms you understand, this is your delirium. Overheated? I recommend that you read the article again, the comments and links to which I refer - maybe if you do it, the picture of what is happening will become clearer for you. If it’s over you are an independent character, otherwise I don’t see any reason to go deeper. And so - fly in the clouds further - you are our genius. hi
            1. Basileus
              Basileus 25 September 2013 22: 39 New
              +1
              Oh, are you already merging? So early? And I already thought that the flow of your arrogant insults will not stop.

              From your comments in the style of "everything is lost" exactly what is indicated follows. Just separate the nationalist and Islamist tendencies - that's all. It's silly to mix in one pile, because they are often antagonistic. Not to mention the fact that all your links boil down to the fact that there were 3,5 idiots walking around with Islamist symbols, then here are your "observations" and a very important opinion. It is, of course, more important than mine, but it does not become more adequate.
              1. Ruslan_F38
                25 September 2013 23: 12 New
                0
                Quote: Basileus
                Oh, are you already merging? So early? And I already thought that the flow of your arrogant insults will not stop.


                Do not wait. There were no insults, and if there were - to the moderators - they will be deleted and they will punish me. laughing
                Just separate the nationalist and Islamic trends - that’s all.
                C'mon - in our case they are interconnected.
                Not to mention the fact that all your links boil down to the fact that there were 3,5 idiots walking around with Islamist symbols, then here are your "observations" and a very important opinion. It is, of course, more important than mine, but it does not become more adequate from this.
                you have 3 then 3,5 you already decide! Above I posted a photo from a procession of nationalists - Islamists))) count how many there are in the photo. But this is so, by the way, I have already explained why the problem raised in the article must be taken seriously. And any opinion deserves attention if it is reasoned. hi
                1. Basileus
                  Basileus 26 September 2013 08: 04 New
                  0
                  Above in the photo is a whole Islamist. This is certainly cool, but it does not look like a popular movement.
                  1. Ruslan_F38
                    26 September 2013 10: 33 New
                    0
                    Quote: Basileus
                    Above in the photo is a whole Islamist. This is certainly cool, but it does not look like a popular movement.


                    Well, you can’t be so blinkered, remove the blinkers and look even higher. hi Especially for you, here is a link to the article, there is a photo and the estimated number and how much really came http://3rm.info/29391-nacionalisty-na-mitinge-v-kazani-chitali-sury-iz-korana-i -
                    prizyvali-k-otdeleniyu-ot-rossii.html
                    1. Basileus
                      Basileus 26 September 2013 11: 04 New
                      +1
                      You said that you posted photos above. It was the only one)) There is one more above, but they just want the Tatars sulәshergә. I am not familiar with the situation, but if the Tatar was canceled as mandatory, nothing prevents interested people from attending electives.

                      Despite heavy rain, according to police officers, about 300 people gathered in the square, although 3 participants were announced.

                      Well, that is, they didn’t score even five hundred. From all over Tatarstan and "neighboring regions". What did I say there about a hundred? Noticeable, yes. Navalny's hamsters are also noticeable, and also managed to collect a couple of hundred in the regions. Where are they? Even in Moscow, where they had thousands of supporters at the rallies, they managed to merge the elections.
                      1. Ruslan_F38
                        26 September 2013 12: 01 New
                        0
                        Quote: Basileus
                        You said that you posted photos above. It was the only one)) There is one more above, but they just want the Tatars sulәshergә.


                        I didn’t give it away for some reason, or the moderators deleted it, well, God bless her, there is this photo in the article and there were more than 500 people, about one and a half thousand - the authorities are not profitable to tell the truth about the number of participants - I assure you. But yes, this is not the main thing - the main thing is why they came there and what slogans they chanted.
                        I am not familiar with the situation, but if the Tatar was canceled as mandatory, nothing prevents interested people from attending electives.
                        You didn’t read the article, there were completely different slogans:
                        The rally, which took place on Saturday in Kazan, began with a reading of the Qur'anic suras. The participants held in their hands the flags of Tatarstan, their organizations, with the inscription in Arabic script: “There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet,” as well as the slogans: “Tatars are their state,” “Our goal is independence,” the correspondent said “ Interfax "from the scene. “Today we recall the ancestors who defended Kazan, who defended the freedom and independence of the Tatar people. We gathered to express hope that in the future we will recreate our independent Tatar state. Yes, we believe that Russia will break up in the coming years, and we will build our own state, ”Nail Nabiullin, chairman of the Azatlyk organization, told reporters.
                        - such requirements are far from peaceful and anti Russian!
                        Even in Moscow, where they had thousands of supporters at rallies, the elections managed to merge.
                        - 27% is to your mind to merge, here it’s just right to grab your head how did such a number of idiots supporting obviously pro-Western proteges have gathered in Moscow? If it’s over, this is not a Kremlin-controlled project, which is likely.
                      2. Basileus
                        Basileus 26 September 2013 12: 23 New
                        0
                        I'm talking about a photo from the first post. There are no more photos in the comments)

                        As for your article - there is confirmed data - the rest is just guesswork. The swamp, too, was estimated at millions by eye.

                        27% of the vote at 30%, if I am not mistaken, turnout is about 10% of the total. Despite the fact that, as correctly noted at the bashorg, candidate Poher won by a huge margin, and the turnout of the hamsters was maximum. That is, if Navalny is actually supported, this figure in Moscow reaches 10-15% of the city’s population. So-so result, although the opposition is quite high.
                      3. Ruslan_F38
                        26 September 2013 13: 33 New
                        0
                        Quote: Basileus
                        As for your article - there is confirmed data - the rest is just guesswork.

                        Who confirmed? Police power? It’s like nobody else.
                        That is, if Navalny is actually supported, this figure in Moscow reaches 10-15% of the city’s population. So-so result, although the opposition is quite high.
                        - I do not agree that this is "so-so" - 10-15% for this is quite a lot, if the population of Moscow is 12 million, 10-15% is a lot.
                      4. Basileus
                        Basileus 26 September 2013 14: 05 New
                        +1
                        Well then, either side can be called interested.

                        Yes, if you consider that the threshold is much lower, then it is enough to pass. But not enough to have any meaningful representation in the legislature. In addition, the people voting for Navalny will not always vote for his party.