Military Review

Uncertainties in the program T-50 PAKFA

74
Uncertainties in the program T-50 PAKFAThere is no shortage of doubts about the future of the program to create a fifth-generation Russian fighter T-50 PAKFA, writes AINonline 20 September. These problems are related to the readiness of the main subsystems of the aircraft, delays in the transfer of the aircraft into service, and plans to cover part of the R & D at the expense of the program’s partner, India.


The design bureau NIIP has traditionally been a supplier of radars for Su fighters and has developed a radar with active phased H050. “The results of the flight tests of the radar on board one of the four T-50 prototypes are very impressive,” says an analyst who is familiar with the program. However, the radar is a product of a boxed assembly. “At present, there is no production base for serial production of the H050 radar. Transmit-receive modules (APMs) are produced at the Istok military enterprise in a limited size, which makes the cost of the radar prohibitive, ”he says.

Also produced manually composite aircraft panel. Composites were developed for the Sukhoi aerobatic aircraft.

The engine of the fifth generation, which will be equipped with later versions of the T-50, still exist mainly on paper, experts say the engine industry in Russia. The prototypes are equipped with Saturn 117C engines, which are equipped with Su-35 fighters. The first production batches of the T-50 will be equipped with these engines.

It is highly doubtful that without making changes T-50 will have low unmasking signs. American experts who spoke with AINonline believe that in its current form, the aircraft in some aspects has an “exorbitantly high radar and infrared signature”.

Another factor is that the T-50 program will be cost-effective if India acquires at least 250 aircraft and also participates in R & D. But India plans to purchase only half of this amount. Sources in the Indian Ministry of Defense believe that India cannot afford to purchase T-50 and French Rafale fighter jets. If the situation becomes “either - or”, participation in the T-50 program can be canceled in favor of Rafale, since India seeks to avoid laying “all the eggs in one Russian basket”.
Originator:
www.militaryparitet.co
74 comments
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  1. experienced
    experienced 23 September 2013 17: 11
    25
    Some kind of fortune-telling on coffee grounds winked The author’s moaning about manual production was especially struck, it’s clear that during the test period, there can be no talk about the conveyor
    India seeks to avoid laying “all eggs in one Russian basket

    The article should have been titled "India scattered its eggs in other people's baskets wassat
    1. Nick
      Nick 23 September 2013 17: 20
      +4
      Quote: seasoned
      "India scattered its eggs in other people's baskets

      Cuckoos do it this way ... I don’t think that Indians are so stupid as to abandon the promising new generation aviation complexes, in favor of today's systems, and not the most relevant IMHO ...
    2. the polar
      the polar 23 September 2013 19: 48
      -3
      Quote: seasoned
      Some kind of fortune-telling on coffee grounds winked The author’s moaning about manual production was especially struck, it’s clear that during the test period, there can be no talk about the conveyor
      India seeks to avoid laying “all eggs in one Russian basket

      The article should have been titled "India scattered its eggs in other people's baskets wassat

      There are no special "groans" in the article. But you must agree that an airplane is not only a glider, but also engines, which are not yet even in the drawings. So there is no plane yet. On old engines, it is still possible to test the airframe, individual flight modes, the behavior of composite parts, but not the "5-generation aircraft" itself. The main components of the radar are also piece work. For new technologies of the same airborne radar, it is necessary to design and manufacture new equipment, and for this it is necessary to at least roughly represent the volume of mass production. And for the manufacture of composite parts, new equipment is needed for mass production, which still needs to be designed and again manufactured. And who guarantees that the sample adopted in the series will contain exactly these details, and not something else? And for the design of technological equipment, it is necessary to know the volume of serial production.
      1. Daduda
        Daduda 23 September 2013 22: 22
        +2
        There are no special "groans" in the article.

        This is not an article, but a vyser. If only because the link under this elevator does not work and at the very beginning they link to the AINonline resource from 20.09.2013, to some article about T-50.
        The only article from 20.09.2013. where it says about Russia this is it: http://ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-defense-perspective/2013-09-20/russia-upg
        rades-missiles-and-guided-bombs
        And there they are generally talking about bombs and missiles.
      2. evil hamster
        evil hamster 24 September 2013 22: 54
        0
        Quote: Polar
        it’s not only a glider, but also engines
        laughing This discovery, shaking hands ... smile
        Quote: Polar
        which are not
        Hmmm, apparently 51 - 54 are launched from the gum, but the authorities then hide !! 111
        Quote: Polar
        while even in the drawings
        And now you convincingly prove it to us by links?
        Quote: Polar
        The main components of radar are also piecework
        Based on what do you think so?
        Quote: Polar
        For new technologies of the same radar, it is necessary to design and manufacture new equipment, and for this it is necessary to at least approximately represent the volume of serial production
        And what's the problem?
        Quote: Polar
        Yes, and for the manufacture of composite parts you need new equipment for serial production, which still needs to be designed and again made.
        This is called a snap, and yet for aluminum parts it is also needed in most cases. And everything you described is just a process of preparing and deploying production, all planes go through it, and what is the T50's exceptionalism in this matter, what bothers you?
        Quote: Polar
        And who guarantees that in the sample adopted in the series these particular details will be, and not something else
        You know, changes in the design of an airplane occur quite regularly at the beginning of its life journey, but even later, changes from series to series are a common occurrence.
        Quote: Polar
        And for the design of technological equipment it is necessary to know the volume of serial production.
        This is not a problem.
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 23 September 2013 20: 00
      +2
      Quote: seasoned
      The article should have been titled "India scattered its eggs in other people's baskets

      Were there eggs? I talked a little with turkeys at work, and out of about a couple dozen that I came across, only about one could confidently say "he's got balls" (that is, a real man). All the rest, regardless of gender, did not have the indicated affiliation (not physiologically, but in life). Well, maybe this is my subjective perception, but in my opinion the people are still the same, or maybe moving to America affects them this way ...
      1. Su24
        Su24 23 September 2013 22: 16
        0
        Quote: Nagan
        Quote: seasoned
        The article should have been titled "India scattered its eggs in other people's baskets

        Were there eggs? I talked a little with turkeys at work, and out of about a couple dozen that I came across, only about one could confidently say "he's got balls" (that is, a real man). All the rest, regardless of gender, did not have the indicated affiliation (not physiologically, but in life). Well, maybe this is my subjective perception, but in my opinion the people are still the same, or maybe moving to America affects them this way ...


        Ghm, I'm sorry, but maybe this is because not the best people are moving to live in other countries?
        I heard that the elite of India are brahmanas and kshatriyas, who form the basis of the special services and the armed forces, those who are engaged in philosophy and ideology. And those who are sent to work in the West are "their own", in general, degenerates.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 24 September 2013 03: 49
          0
          Quote: Su24
          Ghm, I'm sorry, but maybe this is because not the best people are moving to live in other countries?
          In my pebble garden? I expected this, so I'm not offended.
          Quote: Su24
          I heard that the elite of India are brahmanas and kshatriyas, who form the basis of the special services and the armed forces, those who are engaged in philosophy and ideology. And those who are sent to work in the West are "their own", in general, degenerates.

          The opposite is true. At least among computer scientists all who at least something of themselves are eager to move to the West at any cost. I had to work in a mixed team. You can still deal with those turkeys who are here, especially if they are already 5-6 years old. And those who stayed in India are an order of magnitude dumber, and do mostly black work like QA. As for the caste, I did not ask them, but it’s clear that they are not untouchables and, perhaps, they are not sudras, with surnames like Raj or Shah. And that only real man came to America even at school age, and he finished school and college already here.
      2. Lavr75
        Lavr75 24 September 2013 02: 14
        0
        Oh, well, let's start with the fact that the self-propelled guns on the T-50 and Su-35 MKI are completely based on the system developed by the Indian side, which is based on a computer with an open architecture and a frequency of 1,5, which we purchase from them and put on these aircraft. this is for starters, and there are a lot of things from the Indians.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 24 September 2013 04: 00
          +2
          Quote: Lavr75
          Oh, well, let's start with the fact that the self-propelled guns on the T-50 and Su-35 MKI are completely based on the system developed by the Indian side, which is based on a computer with an open architecture and a frequency of 1,5, which we purchase from them and put on these aircraft. this is for starters, and there are a lot of things from the Indians.

          The frequency of 1.5 (if, of course, you mean gigahertz, and not some other unit) was achieved by Intel (Pentium IV) and AMD (Athlon XP) 12 years ago, + - a little. If this is the last peep of Indian technology, one can imagine their level. It’s not just visible that their submarines are self-igniting, the gun barrels are tearing, and the planes fall.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 24 September 2013 18: 24
            0
            In military affairs, no one is particularly chasing frequencies and the technological process, and the F-22 is generally built at 20 MHz percent. Almost anything you can now produce in Russia without bothering with technology for iPads.
        2. evil hamster
          evil hamster 24 September 2013 22: 27
          0
          Please rave sir.
  2. SAG
    SAG 23 September 2013 17: 12
    15
    article - GOBNO wassat there is a stage of factory tests, it is natural that almost all units are piece (including the aircraft themselves)
    and it’s quite natural that the price of such piece copies exceeds the serial ones ... and the author wants everything to be right away, like in a cartoon ... it doesn’t happen stop
    1. the polar
      the polar 23 September 2013 19: 53
      +6
      Quote: SAG
      article - GOBNO wassat there is a stage of factory tests

      These are not factory tests, but tests of full-scale airframe samples and individual systems manufactured for the Sukhoi Design Bureau. Serial production is undergoing factory tests, which is still very far away.
      1. Lavr75
        Lavr75 24 September 2013 02: 17
        +1
        Actually, full-scale samples do not fly, they stand in hangars, this is a note.
  3. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 23 September 2013 17: 12
    +4
    All these doubts have long been known. So they need to be decided and not to bury a promising model.
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  10. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 23 September 2013 17: 15
    13
    To evaluate the program for creating PAK-FA, you first need to know it. I am sure that the program is a closed document. Then with what to compare the real state of affairs on the development of PAK-FA? The question is rhetorical.
    1. little man
      little man 23 September 2013 17: 19
      -1
      And what is closed then?
      What about engines? Or about the radar assembly? Noticeability?
      The fact that the article cites doubts just does not cause.
      1. 31231
        31231 23 September 2013 17: 58
        +1
        And what is given ?! No tsifer. All that is written is already said more than once before.
    2. the polar
      the polar 23 September 2013 20: 01
      +1
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      I am sure that the program is a closed document.

      Sure. Therefore, all fortune telling is unproductive. But the plane will be held at 80% only when new engines are put on it. So in a few years, not earlier. And now, while it is possible to bring avionics, radar and prepare for them serial production. This electronics will go to other serial models.
      1. viktorR
        viktorR 23 September 2013 21: 29
        +3
        Actually, the current engines correspond to TTZ.
      2. Avenger711
        Avenger711 24 September 2013 18: 25
        0
        And what will it give? + 5-10% thrust? Well, maybe 15. That's the joke, that it does not play a critical role.
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  14. Russ69
    Russ69 23 September 2013 17: 20
    15
    I didn’t understand the article. What's new said?
    It has long been said about engines, singing the same mantras a hundred times.
    The fact that the radar, in one instance, and the plane is not yet in the series. and until the end of the test for a long time.
    1. alexng
      alexng 23 September 2013 19: 55
      +9
      Someone from the same team that wrote about the myths of Kalash probably dashed the article. An ordinary American litter writes such articles.
      1. alexng
        alexng 23 September 2013 20: 13
        +1
        And silently minus only the same litter?
  15. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 23 September 2013 17: 21
    +1
    When they write about the serial f-35 that he has problems, commentators write that the plane is gobno. When they write the same about our piece, commentators write that the article is gobno. Guys, doesn’t your brain break from this jingoism?
    1. Scoun
      Scoun 23 September 2013 17: 39
      11
      Quote: chunga-changa
      commentators write that the article is gobno.

      and how else to comment on this article?
      Take the last paragraph ...
      India cannot afford the purchase of the T-50 and the French Rafale fighter. If the situation becomes "either - or", participation in the T-50 program can be canceled in favor of RafaleAs India seeks to avoid laying "all eggs in one Russian basket".

      Here's what else you can say here .... that is, the Indians will abandon the 5th generation in the development of which they themselves participate (there is their share and this will not be the current T-50) in favor of the aircraft in the development of which they do not participate 4th generation ....
      I would not post this article at all ..
      What is the piece of aircraft? yes of course piece!
      Even existing designs are different from each other! when you decide on the final look .. then we can talk about the series ...
      Is the engine not quite the same? so what .. but during the formation of the main engine, already on this series, "childhood" diseases will be removed / taken into account during operation.
      PS.
      you yourself carefully read what you wrote .....
      When about serial f-35 they write that he has problems

      and then blurt out, but I wonder how you managed to draw parallels or was it done to once again mention "hurray-patriotism"?
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 23 September 2013 19: 23
        +3
        And I read what I write, not only do I even think at first. Yes, the aircraft is serial, an experimental operation is underway in the troops, and I highlight the shortcomings - I emphasize serial machines. Here we have a mace for 4 years as a serial rocket, they conduct tests to identify problems, everyone is happy And when they write that our prototype T-50, despite the problems, is still better than the serial American, this is cheers-patriotism.
        Now, for sure, the mention of a non-flying serial club to the jingoistic patriots will again break their brains, how is it that ours doesn’t fly, even as it flies and all the adversaries tremble clearly. Obviously, again, the machinations of a foreign Internet.
        1. Scoun
          Scoun 24 September 2013 09: 40
          +2
          Quote: chunga-changa
          And when they write that our prototype t-50 in spite of problems it’s still better serial american

          Damn, a prototype with problems and serial with problems are different categories.
          Two, when there is a comparison of aircraft ala .....
          The Armenians and Georgians are traveling in a compartment.
          Armenian: - And the Armenian is better than the Georgians!
          The Georgian is silent.
          Armenian again: - Armenian is better than Georgians!
          The Georgian is silent.
          Armenian again: - Armenian is better than Georgians!
          Georgian explodes: - What is better?
          Armenian: - Than Than Than Georgians !!
          Then I completely agree with you about cheers-patriotism
          But the article is not about that at all !!! and you dragged a hurray of patriots and now in the appendage "Bulava" the meaning of all this, to show that we are not all so rosy? so this and so most people know and I will say more that there are not a few people who believe that we have not just bad but a complete campez.
          Quote: chunga-changa
          non flying serial mace

          Yes, it doesn't fly, but where does the Bulava and the F-35 have to do with it?
          I’ll drag it too ...
          And no one in the world has such centrifuges as Russia, so their F-35 cranes ...)))
      2. Mikado
        Mikado 23 September 2013 19: 38
        -1
        Quote: Scoun
        that is, the Indians will abandon the 5th generation in the development of which they themselves participate (there is their share and this will not be the current T-50) in favor of the aircraft in the development of which they do not participate and even the 4th generation ....


        There is a good adage. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The Hindus will refuse from "Vikramandati" if there is still some serious jamb, although they have also invested a lot of effort and money in it. So they may well (and quite reasonably do) abandon the T-50, if ours begin to delay the deadline for decades and the problems of the machine are not solved
        1. Scoun
          Scoun 24 September 2013 09: 43
          +1
          Quote: Mikado
          There is a good proverb. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

          laughing do not be offended but there is a folk .....
          "Nakarkal" !!! and "Don't croak"! ))) ))))
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 24 September 2013 18: 27
      +1
      It is not serial, pre-production, at least 100 pieces do, but then saw them. Well, and that is still typical not in the ranks and with the performance characteristics that make you think.
  16. Algor73
    Algor73 23 September 2013 17: 26
    +6
    It’s good to be an optimist, a poemist worse. But you have to be realistic. You can scream out loud, and you can trash. But you have to do it. It is clear that there will be problems with such a project. Americans are not the first year already serial can not bring to mind. The main thing is the will to fist. During the Second World War, factories were built in a month, which produced tanks and aircraft. Just want to. There is already a retreat equal to death - the whole world has done advertising. Only forward.
  17. sined0707
    sined0707 23 September 2013 17: 27
    +5
    Yes, all the rules, as in the song "Everything is going according to plan ...", I think there will be a delay of 2 years, but this is a normal practice, as in the whole world (example of F-35, although there are more of them, the car is still far from completion) ...
    The opinions of these "experts" are another bunch of puddles. They squeal because we are going the right way. Our friends are not the first time trying to shit us with the Hindus.
  18. sined0707
    sined0707 23 September 2013 17: 49
    +1
    [quote = chunga-changa] When they write about the serial f-35 that he has problems, commentators write that the plane is oboe. When they write the same about our piece
    Dear, you think this is an objective article, minus you, do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs.
    1. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 23 September 2013 18: 41
      +1
      That is, the article is not objective. Therefore, we go on points, write objectively. There are no delays in the transfer of aircraft. There are no problems with the subsystems. The radar is mass-produced in sufficient quantities and it is cheap. Necessary composite panels are produced on production lines in any required quantities. 5th generation engines are mass-produced and all their problems have already been resolved.
      In its present form, the aircraft fully complies with the conditions of radar and infrared invisibility.
      The T-50 program will be cost-effective even if India refuses to finance R&D and the purchase of aircraft.
      Is everything objective now? Plus put it? Did not confuse God's gift with fried eggs?
      Hurray patriotism is when they write that one Ka-50 will easily stop the tank army, and the prototype T-50 will destroy any number of f-22s and disperse hundreds of f-35s just because we are pleased.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 23 September 2013 19: 09
        +1
        Minus set, presumably again wrong somewhere. I'll write it right.
        Despite the temporary problems that are being successfully resolved, it is safe to say that even in its current form, our developments are superior in performance to the latest aircraft in service with America, the production and operation of which are constantly faced with critical difficulties. Undoubtedly, when according to the plan of testing our aircraft will end and it will be put into service, and as we all hope will happen in the near future, our aircraft will dominate the air for the next 20 years, and then even more advanced models will replace them.
      2. No_more
        No_more 23 September 2013 19: 38
        +1
        Can you still put the aircraft on the conveyor? What is in-line production? Now this is not in any country in the world, because with such volumes, setting up a line for in-line production will never work. This is not a compact car stamp.
        You can remember, for example, Ferrari, these "poor" also do not put their "troughs" on the conveyor.
        1. Matio
          Matio 23 September 2013 20: 25
          0
          The raptors were produced on the conveyor and now it is a construction in conservation mode.
        2. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 24 September 2013 00: 26
          +3
          Quote: No_more
          Can you still put the aircraft on the conveyor? What is in-line production? Now this is not in any country in the world, because with such volumes, setting up a line for in-line production will never work. This is not a compact car stamp.


          Conveyor F-22



          F-35 production today
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 24 September 2013 00: 52
            +1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN


            F-35 production today



            Organization of production is simply amazing !!! good There is nothing superfluous, nothing unfinished around. Even absolutely all the ladders are painted the same color. Discipline in one word!
          2. spynet
            spynet 24 September 2013 01: 45
            +4
            Maybe I don’t understand something, but it seemed to me that the assembly line is:

            Conveyor assembly, assembly of products with continuous or periodic movement thereof, carried out forcibly on the conveyor. Conveyor assembly also includes assembly of products installed on a special platform, platform or trolley, which move at the same speed continuously or with periodic stops.

            So - in the first and second photographs, except for the aircraft assembly workshop, I do not see any conveyor ...
            Even cheap and massive Robinson helicopters are assembled manually.

            P.S. Conveyor SU 34 wink
            1. IGS
              IGS 24 September 2013 03: 40
              +2
              I agree, this is not a conveyor, but rather "desktops" in a row. They can be "moved" and assembled in the same passenger Boeing. Aircraft leaving this range can be very different from each other in models and types.
          3. No_more
            No_more 24 September 2013 11: 20
            +2
            Beautiful, but this is an ordinary slipway assembly of aircraft. What they are doing throughout the world aircraft industry.
  19. Odysseus
    Odysseus 23 September 2013 17: 50
    +4
    Yes, composites and avionics are the most problematic areas of the program. It is necessary to tighten the production base.
    As for India, I doubt that they will abandon the T-50. For all the respect for Rafal, he still has weapons not located in the internal compartments, but they want a full-fledged 5th generation fighter. Of course, they can get the T-50 no earlier than 2020 but the war doesn’t threaten them right now, so they can wait.
  20. Gato
    Gato 23 September 2013 17: 53
    +8
    T-50 program will be cost-effective if India acquires at least 250 aircraft, and will also participate in R&D

    This phrase just killed. Or is PAKFA an exclusively commercial program, the most important of which is "economic efficiency"?
    1. the polar
      the polar 23 September 2013 20: 12
      0
      Quote: Gato
      T-50 program will be cost-effective if India acquires at least 250 aircraft, and will also participate in R&D

      This phrase just killed. Or is PAKFA an exclusively commercial program, the most important of which is "economic efficiency"?

      And this is the modern liquidity approach of the Russian authorities to the defense industry. They really want the military-industrial complex to first make a profit comparable to an oil pipe, and then, in their free time, riveted pieces of iron for their defense.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  21. Grif
    Grif 23 September 2013 18: 00
    +2
    It is possible that with the T-50 it will turn out the same as with the Su-27. The finished plane was altered completely and the song turned out. God forbid!
  22. plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 23 September 2013 18: 02
    +5
    The article was clearly written not by the patriot of Russia ... the known facts are retouched and with comments calculated clearly on a weak mind ... For the analytical mind, this is just bullshit .. rude. But it is ...
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 23 September 2013 18: 13
      +1
      Quote: plotnikov561956
      The article was clearly written not by the patriot of Russia ... the known facts are retouched and with comments calculated clearly on a weak mind ... For the analytical mind, this is just bullshit .. rude. But it is ...


      Well, AINonline is an American resource, they have nothing to love us with, and this article there is just something to fill in.
      1. Matio
        Matio 23 September 2013 20: 41
        -1
        The article is bad, because everything is written, it's true.
        1. IGS
          IGS 26 September 2013 15: 08
          0
          Quote: Matio
          The article is bad, because everything is written, it's true.

          Something "true" hurts a curve wassat
          PS By mistake put "+" to this "commentary".
  23. VadimSt
    VadimSt 23 September 2013 18: 10
    +1
    Quote: plotnikov561956
    The article was clearly written not by the patriot of Russia ...

    What do you want to get from experts Ainonline - This is a publisher from Ohio, USA.
  24. sashka
    sashka 23 September 2013 18: 11
    +5
    WELL HERE AS USUAL. It begins with the words "if only if only" .. Not surprised at all ..
  25. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 23 September 2013 18: 15
    +2
    It’s somehow strange that all this comes with the introduction of promising weapons ... It seems that someone specially makes a joke sticks in wheels inserts (into quiet)
  26. Koronik
    Koronik 23 September 2013 18: 20
    +2
    Someone really does not want Russia to have first-class equipment, but we will survive this too. Yes, there may be changes in the timing, but there are already five of them (T-50 aircraft) and so far everything is going according to plan. We hope that everything will be so.
  27. sashka
    sashka 23 September 2013 18: 47
    +4
    Judging by the deleted comments, the people are terribly offended and saddened .. Well, the Yankees are not in vain spending so much to bring it to their senses .. And then again they began to shout "once and on the mattress." All this is not easy ... you can't throw hats.
  28. alexpro66
    alexpro66 23 September 2013 18: 47
    +4
    Somehow I already unsubscribed about foreign analysts - why again lay out such nonsense about PAKFA they are teeming with all the foreign press and she will never write anything good about our technology. There were and will be problems, and not only with us, thank God we are solving them. Yes, we don’t have such opportunities at the moment to solve them in one fell swoop, but this does not mean that everything is radically root !. Something about their problems they are not crucifying, but in case of failure they simply unsubscribe - the program is closed due to unpromising ..)))
  29. major071
    major071 23 September 2013 19: 06
    +9
    American experts who spoke with AINonline believe that, in its current form, the aircraft in some aspects has an "exorbitantly high radar and infrared signature."
    Their opinions were definitely not enough for us. wassat To cheat, and in the media, to promote your dear! ueb.sche. IMHO soldier
    1. clidon
      clidon 23 September 2013 20: 25
      +1
      In general, our experts say the same about prototypes, only they avoid the words "prohibitively high", limiting themselves to words like "the domestic machine is made with an emphasis on the balance between flight performance and stealth".
  30. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 23 September 2013 19: 13
    +4
    T-50 program will be cost-effective if India acquires at least 250 aircraft

    What nonsense, what economic efficiency, if it is already funded by the state?
    Liberasty sabotage.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 23 September 2013 20: 17
      0
      I am greatly exaggerating, but if a dozen T-50s gobble up the annual defense budget of the Russian Federation with a social one in addition, then you will seriously think whether you need such a good one, even if it is head and shoulders above the F-35 and F-22 taken together. And the cost of the aircraft includes a breakdown of the cost of development and preparation for production for all production aircraft. The arithmetic is simple - the larger the series, the less each one costs. It is necessary that when purchasing a reasonable amount (not 1-2 pieces per year) it will be enough for other programs (well, like there are a lot of people here who think that the Navy needs new ships), then it will be "economic efficiency". Something like this.
    2. clidon
      clidon 23 September 2013 20: 26
      +1
      You do not know that regardless of who pays, the cost of machines directly depends on the volume of production?
  31. Ivan Ural
    Ivan Ural 23 September 2013 20: 06
    +2
    Deliver again these managers ...
  32. SAG
    SAG 23 September 2013 20: 28
    +3
    Quote: chunga-changa
    That is, the article is not objective. Therefore, we go on points, write objectively. There are no delays in the transfer of aircraft. There are no problems with the subsystems. The radar is mass-produced in sufficient quantities and it is cheap. Necessary composite panels are produced on production lines in any required quantities. 5th generation engines are mass-produced and all their problems have already been resolved.
    In its present form, the aircraft fully complies with the conditions of radar and infrared invisibility.
    The T-50 program will be cost-effective even if India refuses to finance R&D and the purchase of aircraft.
    Is everything objective now? Plus put it? Did not confuse God's gift with fried eggs?
    Hurray patriotism is when they write that one Ka-50 will easily stop the tank army, and the prototype T-50 will destroy any number of f-22s and disperse hundreds of f-35s just because we are pleased.

    are you normal Or do you all live in a fairy tale on the Chinese island of Chunga Chang ?? the work process is going on ... moreover, the process of creating a NEW technique, the analogues of which in the world can be counted on the fingers of one hand! and you want everything to be at once and without problems !!! there is a feeling that you, in addition to boltology, did nothing more in life ... the process of eliminating these problems is WORK !!!
  33. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 23 September 2013 20: 33
    +1
    Everything will be fine ... We will win .... you will see
  34. VladimS
    VladimS 23 September 2013 20: 35
    +3
    The article should have been titled "India scattered its eggs in other people's baskets

    And add: Thus, killing hopes in Russia about the production efficiency of a promising model
    T-50 for the Russian army.
    Survived! Money to the dope .. but wait! Or does the zakardonny owner not allow money to be spent?
  35. starhina01
    starhina01 23 September 2013 20: 40
    +2
    nobody said it was easy soldier for some reason it seems to me that not all problems on this project are voiced here hi and difficulties must always be fought soldier
  36. wulf66
    wulf66 23 September 2013 20: 50
    +1
    Some whining.
  37. Nymp
    Nymp 23 September 2013 20: 55
    +3
    "American experts who spoke with AINonline believe that in its current form the aircraft has in some aspects" an exorbitantly high radar and infrared signature. "
    Well, the opinion of Amer’s experts! Everywhere they stick their star-striped nose. Aircraft - POWER! That is why so much noise.
    1. crambol
      crambol 23 September 2013 21: 13
      0
      To scream cheers early. We must soberly assess the shortcomings. But they are.
      1. Nymp
        Nymp 23 September 2013 21: 37
        +2
        Quote: crambol
        But they are.

        Do you have a test sample? He has not yet entered the series. Can you name at least one Amer test sample that has gone into series without modifications?
  38. Matio
    Matio 23 September 2013 21: 00
    +2
    The article is bad, because everything is written, it's true. So I understand the comments.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 23 September 2013 21: 05
      0
      It always has been - a messenger who brought bad news was executed.
  39. crambol
    crambol 23 September 2013 21: 09
    -2
    It is very sad to read, but still I put a plus with hope, which, as you know, dies last.
  40. NEXUS
    NEXUS 23 September 2013 21: 58
    +4
    Quote: Yuri I.
    All these doubts have long been known. So they need to be decided and not to bury a promising model.

    problems on t-50 drag on for a long time and will not be resolved soon ... that's a fact ... but at this point in time, I have a question - will this bird not become obsolete when it gets its army, already leaving the assembly line? m ... me I think that in all countries, including Russia, work is underway to create a machine of the 6 generation ...
    1. major071
      major071 23 September 2013 22: 19
      +5
      The 6 generation is drones. Work on them is underway. Both in our country and in the west.
  41. aleks77
    aleks77 23 September 2013 23: 11
    0
    About the T-50 is a much more intelligible and informative article at the link
    http://dokwar.ru/publ/voenny_vestnik/novosti_vpk/dolog_put_do_pjatogo_pokolenija
    / 2-1-0-958
  42. NEXUS
    NEXUS 23 September 2013 23: 27
    +4
    Quote: major071
    The 6 generation is drones. Work on them is underway. Both in our country and in the west.

    it’s not at all a fact that the 6-th generation will be unmanned ... I think it’s still far from us and the west to a super unmanned fighter
  43. voliador
    voliador 23 September 2013 23: 38
    +1
    Honestly, I won’t be surprised if this is close to the truth. The defense industry, even in such an area as aviation, is greatly loosened (collapsed), in order to create such a complex unit as the engine of a fighter or radar of a modern, or even promising level, you need a good technological base and qualified personnel. And with this (especially with frames) a big problem.
  44. Enzzo
    Enzzo 23 September 2013 23: 47
    +1
    If only the project had not stalled!
  45. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 24 September 2013 01: 17
    +2
    To return to the country the OBKhSS, the article with confiscation, the ban on traveling abroad for all who have the slightest access to information of state importance and their relatives, to make the article "For treason to the Motherland" in practice, not on paper. And this plane will appear in all its glory in a year, maybe even less. And we will have a lot of them.
  46. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 24 September 2013 06: 26
    +1
    Another casting of Mr. on the fan.
  47. Norady
    Norady 24 September 2013 11: 11
    +1
    Quote: Semen Semenych
    Another casting of Mr. on the fan.

    in fact of the matter. fools are unlikely to fall for such resources, and if they do, they are silent in a rag and gradually grow wiser. but those who yell defeatist nonsense with a clear rise in the defense industry do it intentionally with a certain motivation;)
    no one promised that the process of restoring the destroyed is an easy walk, the rest is from the evil one =) as they say: know and think!
  48. Gur
    Gur 24 September 2013 12: 40
    0
    The future will show us whether we can create something new, or we can only do the modernization we can do with the Indians or without them, and if everything is normal, then he will respectably partner plane, though they already have non-paper
  49. nod739
    nod739 24 September 2013 13: 41
    0
    Quote: Nagan
    The frequency of 1.5 (if, of course, you mean gigahertz, and not some other unit) was achieved by Intel (Pentium IV) and AMD (Athlon XP) 12 years ago, + - a little. If this is the last peep of Indian technology, one can imagine their level.


    in some cases reliability and quality are needed, not speed

    any pros in some cases, with unlimited space (and / or other factors) will prefer llamas to microcircuits


    and by the way, at the expense of a pebble, he lied in your garden, it meant about castes of Indians,
    but at the expense of you (not personally, but not of Indians), I myself share the opinion that it is energetic people who are able to change a lot around. including and place of residence
  50. newcomer
    newcomer 24 September 2013 13: 45
    -2
    Well, here's to you !!! and we all hoped and believed like that, holding our breath to the loud fanfare and fiery speeches of Putin, Pogosyan and company. as a result, the pak-fak will turn out to be another bullshit profanity, the same as the su-35, mig-35, dry-jet superjet, and other miraculous pepelats whose main task is to proudly fly at international air shows in le bourget and farnborough in single copies and pull money from the state budget ...