Military Review

Cooling relations between Ukraine and Russia: final break in line?

225
Cooling relations between Ukraine and Russia: final break in line?



The Prime Minister of Ukraine N. Azarov has recently made a statement that Ukraine is increasingly moving away from Russia in terms of bilateral relations. Moreover, the chairman of the government noted, Russia itself is to blame for this. The gas contract, which is extremely disadvantageous for Ukraine, forces its government to seek new partnerships on the side. And these relations are not always unpromising.

“Every day the action of this unequal agreement alienates one state from another, increasingly cooling relations between them.” Said the Ukrainian prime minister. The same words of his boss were confirmed by his press secretary V. Lukyanenko. He noted that the unfavorable agreement forces the Ukrainian government not only to look for new alternatives in the supply of blue fuel, but also at an accelerated pace to increase its own production. By and large, we can say that the Ukrainian prime minister accused the Russian government of short-sightedness, because getting one-sided benefits for a short time cannot serve as a guarantee of long-term bilateral relations. And the gas agreement in no way can serve to strengthen relations between the two states.

This statement was announced after the visit of Mykola Azarov to the Netherlands, where negotiations were held between Ukrainian politicians and the leadership of Royal Dutch Shell. As part of the negotiations, a certain agreement was signed, which should serve as the start of work aimed at the development and production of shale gas in the Yuzovskoye field. According to the Ukrainian Prime Minister, around the year 2015, the company can already receive the first large volumes of gas.

Recall that at the end of January of this year, representatives of the Ukrainian government and the management of Royal Dutch Shell signed an agreement according to which the company committed itself to invest 410 million dollars in the first phase of work. These investments are supposed to be mastered over 4-5 years. The total investment can be on the order of 10 billion dollars.

According to expert estimates, shale gas production at the Yuzovskoye field is about 20 billion cubic meters annually, which is equal to the volume of natural gas currently produced in Ukraine. Total gas volumes are about 4 trillion tons of cubic meters of gas. According to N. Azarov, the work is very difficult, but this agreement fully meets the national interests of the Ukrainian state. In addition, ultimately, the treaty will help solve the problems associated with providing the country with its own gas.

In addition to the company Royal Dutch Shell, another serious energy company from the United States of America - Chevron - can also be engaged in the development and production of shale gas in Ukraine. Recall that in May 2012, this company won the competition for the production of hydrocarbons on the Oleskaya area. Representatives of the company submitted a draft production sharing agreement to the Ukrainian government for consideration. Before signing, it must be approved by the Ivano-Frankivsk and Lviv regional councils, because the deposit is located in the territories of precisely these regions.

Currently there is no development on this project. The reason is that in August, the Ivano-Frankivsk Regional Council rejected the project, sending it back for revision. A regular meeting of the regional council should be held the other day, at which this draft is planned to be considered. Eduard Stavytsky, the Ukrainian Minister of Energy and Coal Industry, said that all the comments had been made to the agreement, so he expressed the hope that the local authorities would approve the document.

According to experts, the minimum investment in geological exploration for this project can be about 300 million dollars, and the volume of gas in the field is approximately 3 trillion cubic meters.

It should be noted that in the shale gas industry, the Ukrainian state may well focus on neighboring Poland, which was the first in Europe to declare that it had begun production of this type of fuel. According to the statement by the Deputy Minister of Environment of Poland, Pyotr Wozniak, made at the end of August of this year, shale gas production began on July 21, and since then it has been going on without stopping. Moreover, the production volumes are much more substantial than those achieved in the EU countries. At the same time Wozniak noted that at the present time it is too early to say that the country intends to switch to commercial operation. It should be noted that Lane Energy Poland daily produces about 8 thousand cubic meters of gas at a test well located in the north of Poland.

We also note that in Poland there are the largest reserves of shale gas in the entire Western European territory. According to data provided by the Polish Geological Institute, the maximum volumes of shale gas, which is located on Polish territory, are approximately 2 trillion cubic meters. Recoverable reserves are approximately 345-770 billion cubic meters. This amount is quite enough for consumption for the period from 35 to 65 years. However, until recently, all attempts to establish serious gas production were unsuccessful. If Poland succeeds in adjusting the extraction of shale, the state can significantly reduce its dependence on Russian blue fuel.

Thus, in Poland, the annual gas consumption reaches 15 billion cubic meters. About 70 percent of these volumes are provided precisely by Russian supplies.

If we talk about Ukraine, according to the latest data provided by Ukrtransgaz, the country has cut gas supplies from Russia by almost 30 percent over the past six months compared to the same period last year - to 15,3 billion cubic meters.

According to experts, at present there is still a small probability that Ukraine will begin active serious development of shale gas, which will make it possible to abandon Russian fuel. This can be caused by certain problems, including political (development can be subject to political competition), commercial (deposits can be developed profitably), geological (it is quite possible to detect significant reserves of shale) and environmental (risk of environmental pollution is possible).

However, the production of shale gas in the Ukrainian fields is not the only reason for the cooling of relations between the two countries. Viktor Yanukovych, in particular, stated this in his annual message to the Ukrainian parliament. It must be said that the message turned out to be quite curious, since it was precisely relations with Russia that he identified as the priority of the state’s foreign policy.

At the same time, the head of state said that representatives of the two countries could not achieve progress on many fundamental issues. Anyone who is even slightly interested in the “sworn friendship” between countries knows that there are others besides the gas problem. Thus, without achieving a reduction in the cost of Russian fuel, Yanukovych said it was necessary to reanimate the White Stream project as an alternative way of supplying Azerbaijani fuel. In addition, in the case of the start of construction of the Trans-Caspian gas pipeline, there is the possibility of gas supplies from Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. It is obvious that all these statements are being made in opposition to the “South Stream” of Russians.

There are problems in the industrial sector. So, at the end of 2012, the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade offered state support for Russian car builders. This was done with one goal - to create for "their" protection from the Ukrainian competitors - Kryukovsky car-building plant and Azovmash. The year before, Russian, Belarusian and Kazakh factories created a certain organization, which, in fact, blocked Ukrainian exports of these products to these countries. Meanwhile, in former times, the volumes of Ukrainian wagon exports to Russia reached 45-50 percent. In addition, it should be noted that the Russian government recently announced its intention to build cars in Latvia, and not in Ukraine.

Another aspect that, according to some experts does not contribute to the strengthening of bilateral relations, is weapons market.

So, not so long ago, the Ukrainian government made a statement about its intention to press Russian competitors in the Asia-Pacific arms market. In accordance with the Ukrainian plans, Ukrspetsexport intends to export arms and military equipment to India, China, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia in the amount equal to 5 billions of dollars over the next five years. These countries, we recall, are traditional buyers of Russian military exporters.

Do not forget about the numerous trade wars between countries. Russians did not like Ukrainian cheeses, milk and meat, or chicken. In addition, there were automobile wars, when Russia introduced the utilization fee for imported cars, and Ukraine, in response, introduced the same fee, only for buses and cars supplied from Russia.

There are many more examples of such a "friendship." And such relationships can hardly be called bright and cloudless. Therefore, it is quite obvious that the words of the head of the Ukrainian state are nothing more than a tribute to diplomacy, regular phrases, nothing more.

At the same time, according to Ukrainian politicians, in particular, Verkhovna Rada Deputy Igor Markov, the announcement of Russia practically the main enemy of Ukraine will certainly cause the collapse of the current Ukrainian political regime. Yes, V. Yanukovych himself earlier stated that there is no alternative to relations between Ukraine and Russia due to substantial trade, energy dependence, and product sales markets. And, despite the next cooling, bilateral relations are still developing. This is evidenced by joint projects in the aircraft industry (An-124, An-158, An-148, An-70), the construction of space technology (the Dnepr rocket-space system project), the modernization of the Ukrainian railway, the completion of the Khmelnitsky nuclear power plant.

Perhaps the only thing that hinders fruitful bilateral cooperation is political ambitions, which must either be pacified or finally dispersed ...

Materials used:
http://vz.ru/economy/2013/9/13/650195.html
http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1707163.html
Author:
225 comments
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  1. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 20 September 2013 08: 35 New
    33
    It is disgusting to read when the article says about the breakdown of relations between countries, if not about the breakup so about cooling. In fact, cooling or breaking is the activity of national governments, ordinary people do not benefit from this. If it were my will, all governments would be dispersed, in the worst case, at the best: someone in the fool, someone in prison. Normal people should always agree, not conflict.
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 20 September 2013 08: 49 New
      39
      There will never be a final break. Governments will come and go, but close, even brotherly peoples can still be sympathetic to each other.
      1. omsbon
        omsbon 20 September 2013 09: 08 New
        16
        Quote: xetai9977
        but close, one might even say fraternal peoples will still feel sympathy for each other.

        If every day we say that all the troubles are due to neighborly intrigues, then sooner or later a fight will begin.
        That's what I really want, so that a big horn would grow on the foreheads of the members of both governments!
        1. In
          In the book 20 September 2013 17: 04 New
          +3
          I agree with you and add.
          You can’t explain it to the clever, he himself understands everything perfectly. It’s useless to explain to a fool, he still won’t understand.
          It is not worth equating the friendship of peoples and the "friendship" of the oligarch officials of both powers. Worse, the ultranationalists are trying to transfer one “friendship” to another “friendship” on the one and the other, using the full power of the media. It is frightening that we in Ukraine do not know the true state of affairs in Russia so much, and that you, the inhabitants of Russia, judge by our mood mainly by the so-called “analytical reviews” on TV.
          I will say this: a person of any nationality (gender, religion, color), who came to visit me and behaves appropriately for me, dear guest. And a man who behaves like a boor away is an enemy for me.
      2. domokl
        domokl 20 September 2013 09: 14 New
        +8
        Quote: xetai9977
        but close, one might even say fraternal peoples will still feel sympathy for each other.

        Well, yes ... Our pilots, who were shot down with the help of the codes handed over by Ukraine, really feel sympathy. Our soldiers who have passed Chechnya are also experiencing a lot ... And there are many such examples in both countries.
        If a person is told daily that he is a pig, he grunts ... And such a talking room is being conducted ...
        1. smile
          smile 20 September 2013 15: 32 New
          +3
          domokl
          I would like to add that such a talking room is still conducted more on the Ukrainian side, even with such bowls that are. pretending to be objective. they are trying to blame the Russian side for all troubles.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 20 September 2013 16: 37 New
            0
            Quote: smile
            I would like to add that such a talking room is still conducted more on the Ukrainian side, even with such bowls that are. pretending to be objective. they are trying to blame the Russian side for all troubles.

            "Ukraine, with the signing of the agreement, is losing its independence and is no longer just a strategic, but even a full-fledged partner for us," said Sergey Glazyev. 29.08.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX (it’s not some kind of Boval there, it’s an adviser to the President of the Russian Federation on the development of the CU)
            You can also throw his "pearl" ... he has recently become so talkative ...
            1. smile
              smile 20 September 2013 18: 22 New
              +9
              Corneli
              This is a statement of the fact that you cease to be an independent state. What offensive? What's wrong? How many countries in Europe can afford independence? If you are offended, take offense at your government. It’s not we who set your country as cancer, but they. Of course, if you like it that way, another thing .... but, again, what do we have to do with it?
              1. Corneli
                Corneli 20 September 2013 18: 33 New
                +1
                Quote: smile
                This is a statement of the fact that you cease to be an independent state. What offensive? What's wrong?

                Find me a clause in the contract where something is written about the cutback or loss of independence or independence)))
                I can also "ascertain" right now, just not the fact that this will be true. Your Glazyev is just a balabol and this is a fact!), Do you want to believe him? Your problems.
                1. smile
                  smile 20 September 2013 22: 10 New
                  +4
                  Corneli
                  Listen ... I’m tired of your kind ... you are not a stupid person, look at Lithuania with an industry destroyed to the roots, where land owners are paid 400 euros per hectare, just to cultivate the land .. where half a million (out of three) work as cleaners, nannies and pickers of vegetables and strawberries in Europe .... such a future do you see for Ukraine? Where will your industry not yet completely finished, built by the whole Union, go? ... what will become of the people employed there? Are you really inspired by the fate of Ukraine, the supplier of girls for brothels and plumbers to Poland (last quote from a statement from the prime minister)? Do you have any pride? Or was it replaced by universal values?
                  You lead me into a stupor with your ... misunderstanding .... of prospects ... open your eyes, look at your predecessors choking in the ditch into which they fell ... miracles! :)))
                  1. Corneli
                    Corneli 20 September 2013 22: 45 New
                    0
                    Quote: smile
                    look at Lithuania with an industry destroyed to the roots, where land owners are paid 400 euros per hectare, just to cultivate the land .. where half a million (out of three) work as cleaners, nannies and pickers of vegetables and strawberries in Europe .... such a future for Ukraine?

                    You from Kaliningrad certainly know what is happening in the Baltic countries, only the weight categories, with us, are slightly different ... Paying our land owners so that they do not work ... there will not be enough money. And +20 million cleaners, nannies and other ... too much for Europe.
                    Quote: smile
                    Where will your industry not yet completely finished, built by the whole Union, go? ... what will become of the people employed there?

                    Something to go broke, something to re-privatize itself (if Russia stubs its horn and actually kills joint trade), something will start to produce not just what it releases right now. And people, and in which country do rulers especially think about them? (from countries of the former USSR)
                    Quote: smile
                    You lead me into a stupor with your ... misunderstanding .... of prospects ... open your eyes, look at your predecessors choking in the ditch into which they fell ... miracles! :)))

                    I’m for your information for the vehicle (still, oddly enough)) Yes, and with the eyes everything is in order, for now. And if I do not like the frank rush and lies about my country or the dashing twisting of facts out of the blue, then I do not see anything bad or abnormal in my answers to such comments.
                    P.S. And protest, but I do not see any advantages for entering the vehicle out of harm and a sense of patriotism, in reality, for Ukraine. It would just start another scum and srach, although on the whole in perspective ... when I shared everything a new way, I would believe.
                    1. smile
                      smile 21 September 2013 00: 44 New
                      +4
                      Corneli
                      well, what kind of vehicle you are, characterizes you ... oddly enough ... :))) And I understand your indignation as a rut ... it’s true only if the media rush passed you ... .a in this article, the rush to the Russian side ... certainly there is a twisting of facts and the escalation of tension out of the blue on both sides ... ktozh argues ... but it seems to me that your government has already managed to accuse Russia of guilty of "temporary difficulties" when they put Ukraine on the European panel - much less honest than ours, which reported, do not want to be an equal partner. want to be a European mongrel, do not be offended ...
                      And I am familiar with the realities of the Baltic states not only because I live in Kaliningrad, but also because all my relatives live in Poland and Lithuania ... my brother works abroad, there is simply nowhere in Lithuania. and the EU’s fishing fleet killed them ...
                      By the way. Ukrainians will be paid much less for killing agriculture than the Balts ... and not only because there are many of you ... your government just doesn’t cost anymore ... well, they will pay so much ... sorry.
                      A sad story ... tell me. why. when our bay about Ukraine. obviously not referring to Ukraine. and the actions of its authorities or bandarlogs, do you stubbornly not notice this? Is it a shame for the power? Maybe your enemies are not there. where they are outraged by the actions of your authorities. and where Ukraine is reduced to the position of a slave? Where is your sense of patriotism?
                      1. Sepei
                        Sepei 21 September 2013 02: 23 New
                        +2
                        smile
                        here I read your comments, and you continue in an insulting tone: "banderlogs", "slaves", "the government is no longer standing." Why is this? To say so about your government, this will also be unpleasant. The fact that there are media outlets that pour mud on Russia is a no brainer, but there are also Russians who do the same for Ukraine. You should not even pay attention to them and quote because this is their job. These are not official statements by the authorities? And they have never talked about Russia in this tone.
                        We need to be more tolerant of each other, and the media listed above is only for inciting mutual hostility.
                      2. Setrac
                        Setrac 21 September 2013 11: 26 New
                        0
                        Quote: Cepgey
                        These are not official statements by the authorities? And they have never talked about Russia in this tone.

                        One thing is more important than a hundred words, they did not say, but did against Russia.
                      3. Eugene
                        Eugene 21 September 2013 12: 06 New
                        0
                        Something the Russian media is not so dirty. Every day we have joyful squeals about Geyropa who interceded for Ukraine on all TV and radio channels! It's already the third week! You turn on the iron, and from there about Fule, how he famously broke Putin. And independence at once The laws of Brussels are binding! And now the dashing gay Brussels will decide what to plant, what to release. We will find out about quotas thoroughly. And all this under the cries of democracy! Brussels! I heard an interesting story about Lithuania. In Europe, if where storks nest, all economic activities within a radius of a few km from the nest are prohibited. And Lithuania is already in the EU! And storks are like dirt there. Interesting.
                  2. Sepei
                    Sepei 21 September 2013 02: 04 New
                    +2
                    Corneli, completely agree with your opinion.
                    I don’t know where it will be economically more profitable in the CU, or in the FTZ with Europe, but my soul is also disposed towards rapprochement with one of our fraternal people.
                    What happens in Europe with homosexuals, etc. I do not need. The soul lies in our traditional values.
                    Our president, V. Yanukovych, has also always been a supporter of rapprochement with Russia, but has his opinion recently changed something?
                    Did someone “buy” him from the European Union, a believing Orthodox person? I am sure that he does not tolerate European liberal values. It helps strengthen the UOC-MP, while Europe, on the contrary, seeks to undermine the authority of the Orthodox Church.
                    A few months ago I saw an interview with Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine Yuriy Boyko - in my opinion a very intelligent person. The program was dedicated to Ukraine joining the FTZ with Europe.
                    He said that now, Ukraine should go to Europe. And answering questions about the estimated profits from joining the FTZ and the CU, he said that the monetary benefit is greater from the entry of the CU !?
                    So why are we going there (FTA) ?!
                    It seems to me, although they don’t say anything about the agreements on TV, Russia, by offering the TS to Ukraine, does not behave like a fraternal people. Most likely she puts some unacceptable conditions.
                    And this somehow doesn’t fraternally work, does it?
                    Today at Ukrainian Inter, Yuriy Boyko said that Russia, Ukraine, offered 4 different <b> equal </b> proposals over the past year or two, but did not receive an answer to their proposals!
                    There is no equal rights! I agree that he will not be in the EU, but somehow it is not fraternal, even if Russia and his elder brother.
                    Ukraine is really between two fires now.
                    The article "Iron Claws of the Kremlin and the Soft Tentacles of the European Union" shows what choice Ukraine has. Russia acts aggressively, crushes, customs wars, etc. Europe seems to look soft, but in fact, as said in the article mentioned, it goes into soft but tentacles! That is, Ukraine is between two fires that pull it on itself.
                    The whole paradox is that without Russia, Ukraine is very difficult, but Russia is also hard. We will both benefit from the union.
                    I work at the institute and I see what things Ukraine can do: rocket-, aviation industry, I don’t know about the military, but I also think that there are achievements. The problem is that we cannot introduce them nowhere without Russia, they disappear or are sold abroad for a penny! Poorly? Sure!
                    But Russia also really needs Ukraine now. In transport AN-124 Ruslans, a super plane is what you need for <b> all </b> Russian military equipment. What does not fit into it is the AN-225. Ahead of the war is brewing, Russia's vast borders. Such planes are simply necessary for her for a quick transfer of equipment.
                    And the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau with their famous missiles? In Russia, problems with the Bulava, GLONAS are not expanding - frequent accidents. I’m not saying this, that it’s bad there without us. These are all issues to be resolved, but now there is little time to strengthen defense capabilities, by joining forces it is possible to quickly achieve the desired result.
                    I repeat once again in order to avoid future negative comments: it is very difficult for Ukraine without Russia, but Russia is also not hard, since we are one!
                    Ukrainian potential has nowhere to go. Neither the EU nor anyone needs our competitors airplanes, missiles, etc. Only together we will be stronger!
                    It is up to politicians to come to an agreement, I think and hope that we should get together! You just need to be kinder to each other. This also applies to comments :)
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 21 September 2013 11: 51 New
                      0
                      Quote: Cepgey
                      Today at Ukrainian Inter, Yuriy Boyko said that Russia, Ukraine, offered 4 different <b> equal </b> proposals over the past year or two, but did not receive an answer to their proposals!

                      I wrote earlier about "equality", but for you I will repeat. So, the population of Russia is 140 million (roughly), Ukraine - 45 million (you can take another parameter, it doesn’t matter). Do we have equal rights? Based on equality, we divide 200 million bucks equally, 100 million Russia and 100 million Ukraine, but then ONE Russian will receive less than one dollar, and ONE Ukrainian more than two and a half, like equality, but the Ukrainian turns out to be more equal than the Russian. So it is with the powers, if the powers are delegated equally, then for one Ukrainian there will be more than three and a half times more powers for more than one Russian. Therefore, equality is beneficial to the "small" in reality equality - the distribution of rights is proportional to the population, economy, and resources.
                      Quote: Cepgey
                      I work at the institute and I see what things Ukraine can do: rocket-, aviation industry, I don’t know about the military, but I also think that there are achievements. The problem is that we cannot introduce them nowhere without Russia, they disappear or are sold abroad for a penny! Poorly? Sure!

                      Everything is trite, there are no sales markets, they will not let you into the western ones, in ANY scenario. To Russian markets - welcome to the TS. In addition, in order to establish production in Ukraine at the moment, Russia must invest, but where is the guarantee that after the next Maidan Russia will not lose everything?
                      Quote: Cepgey
                      I repeat once again in order to avoid future negative comments: it is very difficult for Ukraine without Russia, but Russia is also not hard, since we are one!

                      In Russia, work is underway to restore the positions lost due to the collapse of the USSR, for example, South Stream and NITKA, and the more time passes, the less Ukraine can offer Russia and the less equal the conditions.
    2. Victor
      Victor 20 September 2013 10: 17 New
      20
      Quote: xetai9977
      but close, one might even say fraternal peoples

      We are not close and not fraternal. WE ARE ONE PEOPLE!
    3. edge
      edge 20 September 2013 13: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: xetai9977
      but close, one might even say fraternal peoples will still feel sympathy for each other.

      but look how happy the relations between the neighbors in the villages are, you will not find enemies worse. I love the Balts so much that they are grinding their teeth (you just have to remember Khatyn a little ........)
      1. Eugene
        Eugene 21 September 2013 12: 10 New
        0
        In Khatyn, Galitsai seemed to frolic.
    4. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 20 September 2013 14: 27 New
      +1
      Russia itself is to blame. Gas contract, extremely disadvantageous for Ukraine

      But finally, they voiced the true reason for the aspiration in the EU.
      But it seems to me this time there will be no revisions to gas agreements.
      1. Oleg Kharkov
        Oleg Kharkov 20 September 2013 22: 34 New
        +2
        That's what for what, and for the price of gas, many thanks. Just its value makes enterprises modernize production, invest in their own production and look for alternative sources of supply. And so who would scratch themselves. This is already in our tradition - as long as everything is fine, then no one is worried about anything, but as they press it, then immediately the head starts to work in the right direction. As with the "birch pigs" on the tanks.
  2. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 20 September 2013 08: 56 New
    +7
    from the Don.
    And where do you see the normal ones? ZKa and company. Ukraine, over the years: independence: I tried to play with one goal. Now it’s Geyropa’s turn! They still don’t know who they got into!
    1. Drummer
      Drummer 20 September 2013 11: 45 New
      -22
      Ukraine goes to Europe, and where does Russia go? For me, the Eiffel Tower is better than the Heart of Chechnya.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 20 September 2013 11: 48 New
        +6
        Quote: Drummer
        For me, the Eiffel Tower is better than the Heart of Chechnya.
        Are you sure there is a significant difference? About the fact that "nothing to catch in Paris, there is one black trash"in the late 90s, a French major helicopter pilot told his brother, inviting him to visit ... request
        1. Drummer
          Drummer 20 September 2013 12: 44 New
          -4
          The difference is huge, even between the Russian Federation and Poland / Lithuania / Czech Republic, etc. the former countries of the socialist camp, with England / France / Germany, and it makes no sense to compare.
          1. MG42
            MG42 20 September 2013 13: 24 New
            +6
            And this is also Paris >>>

            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 20 September 2013 16: 19 New
              -10
              in Moscow the same thing
              1. MG42
                MG42 20 September 2013 23: 27 New
                +5
                Quote: zmey_gadukin
                in Moscow the same thing

                French church may be rebuilt into a mosque According to media reports, this became possible after the diocese of the French city decided to sell one of its five churches.

                The reason was the large financial costs of maintaining the temple.

                The Moroccan Association announced its intention to turn the Christian religious building into a mosque.


                http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/1054520/
                1. True
                  True 21 September 2013 09: 30 New
                  +4
                  And yet, the same thing in Moscow? Why did people get so many minuses? ... Personally, the result is important to me. He is not there! Ukraine is floating away from us. True or false, but Ukraine was supposed to enter the TS. Though let them order Janek or Maidan 2 suit. The fundamental question. ... The result is no-guilty government of the Russian Federation. ... Ineffective,, management.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 21 September 2013 12: 01 New
                    0
                    Quote: True
                    And yet, the same thing in Moscow? Why did people get so many minuses? ...

                    Because in Moscow there is no such thing.
                    Quote: True
                    Personally, the result is important to me. He is not there! Ukraine is floating away from us.

                    Ukraine will not go anywhere, the wrong actions of the Ukrainian government will do the most harm to Ukraine itself.
                    Quote: True
                    The result is no-guilty government of the Russian Federation. ... Ineffective,, management.

                    Let the Cossacks write a letter to the Russian tsar again, I apologize to the president.
                    But about management is not necessary, 5-6 the economy in the world, argues with Germany and strive for Japan, heh smile running away from Brazil.
                2. True
                  True 21 September 2013 10: 53 New
                  +2
                  To a direct question, a direct answer we hear?
      2. borisjdin1957
        borisjdin1957 20 September 2013 12: 21 New
        +8
        from the Don.
        Eiffel Tower with legs apart?
        1. smile
          smile 20 September 2013 15: 35 New
          0
          borisjdin1957
          Yeah, it harmoniously complements the leaning leaning tower of Pisa ... :)))
          1. True
            True 21 September 2013 09: 36 New
            +3
            Again you sing ode ...
            The Vedomosti newspaper learned about the distribution of grants that President Vladimir Putin allocated to NGOs. The largest amount, 9,5 million rubles, will be received by the Institute of Eurasian Studies in studying the role of Caucasians in the liberation of the besieged Leningrad. The publication writes about this in the issue of August 26. Large grants will also be received by the Stopham and Piggy Against projects.
            http://news.rambler.ru/20772844/
          2. True
            True 21 September 2013 09: 48 New
            +2
            The United Nations Convention against Corruption (UNCAC) was adopted by the UN General Assembly (resolution No. A / RES / 58/4 of October 31, 2003). The Convention is a multilateral international legal document reflecting the nature of corruption, offering a variety of measures to combat this phenomenon ... Russia has not ratified Article 20 of the Convention (“Illegal Enrichment”). The article provides for the recognition by the signatory countries of the criminal offense of “illegal enrichment” of civil servants
            http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%EE%ED%E2%E5%ED%F6%E8%FF_%CE%CE%CD_%EF%F0%EE%F2%
            E8%E2_%EA%EE%F0%F0%F3%EF%F6%E8%E8
      3. MG42
        MG42 20 September 2013 13: 14 New
        +7
        Quote: Drummer
        Ukraine goes to Europe, and where does Russia go? For me, the Eiffel Tower is better than the Heart of Chechnya.

        Paris view of the Eiffel Tower >>
        1. Stalinets
          Stalinets 24 September 2013 03: 41 New
          0
          And the Jews, as if not !!!!! Although the entire diplomatic corps of both countries, Jews or Zionists.
      4. Avenger711
        Avenger711 20 September 2013 14: 26 New
        11
        Russia goes by building the Russian world, and not living in a kennel under a European fence led by local princes who think only of their pocket.
      5. smile
        smile 20 September 2013 15: 39 New
        10
        Drummer
        Yes, come on, Ukraine is not going anywhere. who will take her to Europe? It simply falls under Europe ... or rather, the Ukrainian government is trying to force its country to enter the European panel, hoping to make money on pimping. Or is this a dream limit for you? However, you have strange dreams ... :)))
    2. edge
      edge 20 September 2013 13: 57 New
      +4
      Quote: borisjdin1957
      They don’t know who they got!

      but hit for sure lol
  3. domokl
    domokl 20 September 2013 09: 11 New
    +7
    Quote: vladsolo56
    In fact, cooling or breaking is the activity of national governments, ordinary people do not benefit from this

    It’s interesting, on the basis of what data do you draw such a conclusion? Based on the conversations here? Something I don’t see protests in Ukraine about joining the free trade zone. That no one goes on the Maidan demanding to fulfill the promises to Yanukovych.
    It can be seen from the cases that the majority of Ukrainians have either come to terms with the withdrawal from Russia, or they are in favor of this.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 20 September 2013 09: 14 New
      0
      In Russia, there are a lot of indignation on various occasions, now they promise to increase the electricity charge, where are the demonstrations on this subject, or did we get into the WTO like a black man in the ass and that there were a lot of opponents on the street? People simply don’t believe anyone, only this is a signal for smart people, the first call to what can happen next.
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 20 September 2013 11: 19 New
        +2
        Yes, nothing will happen. The horror story is tired. everyone is spinning as best he can and doesn’t want and is not going to tear pop for anyone. I’m not tired of playing with scarecrows.
        The same Rogozin criticized and scared everyone a lot, and now he says - everything is in order, it seemed to me from the side.

        The dog barks and the caravan goes! wink
    2. etrusk
      etrusk 20 September 2013 11: 05 New
      11
      Quote: domokl

      It’s interesting, on the basis of what data do you draw such a conclusion? Based on the conversations here? Something I don’t see protests in Ukraine about joining the free trade zone. That no one goes on the Maidan demanding to fulfill the promises to Yanukovych.
      It can be seen from the cases that the majority of Ukrainians have either come to terms with the withdrawal from Russia, or they are in favor of this.

      Maidan is a bloated and paid share, there are a lot of confirmations for this both in various articles and studies, and in the testimonies of eyewitnesses and participants. Citizens of Ukraine absolutely clearly and not ambiguously expressed their sympathies towards rapprochement with Russia. This was done in the presidential election. Yanukovych won, who spoke out precisely for such a rapprochement. Now we see a large-scale scam, or rather betrayal of the country and voters.
      As for the protests, there must be a leader of this, but it is not observed. By themselves, people never rise.
      1. IT
        IT 21 September 2013 00: 07 New
        +1
        Only people of low culture and low intelligence bought these tales. It was immediately obvious that he needed nothing more than to fill his belly. Voted for him much less than they later calculated. And also very Russian media helped him in the victory. Russian TV channels in Ukraine show all cable operators.
    3. Alligator_S
      Alligator_S 20 September 2013 11: 06 New
      +5
      Something I do not see protests in Ukraine about joining the FTA. That no one goes on the Maidan with a demand to fulfill promises to Yanukovych.


      Because Maidans are pure political technologies, and ordinary people cannot organize themselves, or even if by some miracle it succeeds, then among the leaders, by a strange coincidence of circumstances, people with completely different interests appear. How can we say that Ukraine does not want to cooperate with Russia if a criminal with two convictions on these promises became president ??? Does this mean that there is no desire to move towards Russia ???
      1. etrusk
        etrusk 20 September 2013 11: 26 New
        17
        Quote: Alligator_S

        How can we say that Ukraine does not want to cooperate with Russia if a criminal with two convictions on these promises became president ??? Does this mean that there is no desire to move towards Russia ???

        This criminal became president because he spoke out for rapprochement with Russia and the introduction of the Russian language as a second state language, and not because the criminal has 2 criminal records.
        1. Alligator_S
          Alligator_S 20 September 2013 12: 15 New
          +3
          This criminal became president because he spoke out for rapprochement with Russia and the introduction of the Russian language as a second state language, and not because the criminal has 2 criminal records.


          Did I write something else ??? laughing
        2. oaziss
          oaziss 20 September 2013 14: 15 New
          +9
          Quite right, and now, with such a position in relation to the Russian Federation and the CU, he will not see a second term. A significant part of the Donbass electorate has already turned his back on him.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 20 September 2013 16: 42 New
            0
            Quote: oaziss
            Quite right, and now, with such a position in relation to the Russian Federation and the CU, he will not see a second term. A significant part of the Donbass electorate has already turned his back on him.

            Turned away for a completely different reason. TSom there and does not smell.
            1. oaziss
              oaziss 20 September 2013 17: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: Corneli
              Turned away for a completely different reason. TSom there and does not smell

              Including for these reasons, but did not fulfill any of his election promises, in particular, on rapprochement with the Russian Federation, on giving the Russian language state status, and so on.
              1. Corneli
                Corneli 20 September 2013 18: 16 New
                +4
                Quote: oaziss
                Including for these reasons, but did not fulfill any of his campaign promises.

                Read his program to begin with, and the main reasons are more likely economic (pensions, living standards, reforms) of Donbass residents who care more about what they will eat tomorrow than how often Putin smiles at Yanukovych
                Quote: oaziss
                in particular, on rapprochement with the Russian Federation, on giving the Russian language state status, and so on.

                Sly):
                "7. FOREIGN POLICY: OPENNESS AND NEIGHBORHOOD
                I consider the main task of national foreign policy to maintain the non-aligned status of Ukraine.
                Given the current geopolitical realities, I am convinced that the non-aligned status of Ukraine is a key element of national security, increasing its international influence and authority. "

                On April 2, 2010, Viktor Yanukovych signed decrees that liquidated the interagency commission on Ukraine’s preparations for joining NATO and the national center for Euro-Atlantic integration, created in 2006 under the presidency of Viktor Yushchenko
                On July 15, Yanukovych signed a law on the main directions of the state’s domestic and foreign policy, in which he finally abandoned the course of joining NATO, declaring Ukraine’s non-aligned status
                "I will restore friendly and mutually beneficial relations with the Russian Federation, the CIS countries, I will ensure strategic partnership with the United States, the EU, and the G-XNUMX countries."
                Kharkov agreements, non-aligned status, rejection of the Holodomor: “to recognize the Holodomor as a fact of genocide against one or another people, we believe it will be wrong, unfair. It was a tragedy, a general tragedy of the states that were part of the USSR” Yanukovych quoted in PACE
                Even the opposition recognized in the first year of the presidency that it had fulfilled 3 points of the above, and that further it began to want more GDP ... well, we see the result
                I'll write more about the language
              2. Corneli
                Corneli 20 September 2013 18: 30 New
                +2
                Quote: oaziss
                on giving the Russian language state status, etc.

                By language:
                "5. TWO LANGUAGES - ONE COUNTRY!
                I crave the real adoption in Ukraine of European standards of democracy, the steady guarantee of human rights and freedoms. I stand for giving the Russian language the status of a second state.
                "

                Law "On the Basics of State Language Policy" (2012):"guarantees the use in Ukraine of" regional languages ​​", that is, languages ​​that, according to the census, consider native as more than 10% of the population of the corresponding region (the region refers to the region, Autonomous Republic of Crimea, district, city, village or town). Within in such a region, the regional language may be used in legislatively established areas along with the state Ukrainian
                This is certainly not the SECOND state, but you can use it and Yanukovych gave it for revision ... as "not complete."
                Now let's see why it is so weak, which is not immediately SECOND
                “During the consideration of the bill in parliament in the second reading and in general, due to the blocking of the rostrum, numerous attempts to disrupt the meetings, threats to“ blow up ”or“ burn ”the parliament from the opposition, the bill that did not take into account the proposals received from Ministry of Justice of Ukraine, Venice Commission, OSCE, Scientific and Expert Administration of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. "
                - Vadim Kolesnichenko, author of the law
                The authors of the law, Vadim Kolesnichenko and Sergey Kivalov, the Lutsk City Council demanded the deprivation of Ukrainian citizenship; Vadim Kolesnichenko’s family, he said, began to receive threats, as a result of which she had to be taken out and provided with security
                Nevertheless, with fights but accepted. read the "international reaction":
                "Jose Manuel Pinto Teixeira, Chairperson of the EU Delegation to Ukraine, stated that the law" can be considered biased ", as it" applies to only one language (I wonder which one?)), and the languages ​​of other minorities are not taken into account ”"
                "Freedom House Executive Director David Kremer said that the Ukrainian parliament has more serious problems than raising a language issue. Later in the report" Freedom in the World "in 2013, the law was named one of three reasons why this organization’s assessment of the level of political freedom in Ukraine has been reduced " (like this! passed a law on the free use of languages ​​on the basis of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages ​​and became "less free")
                "Council of Europe Secretary General Thorbjørn Jagland said that the law protects the rights of only one language - Russian. He also confirmed that “the Venice Commission had many critical comments” regarding this law."
                And much more about what our opposition was doing, I just won’t write and I think it’s clear.
                So this "default" is very controversial, Yanyk has done enough, given the circumstances, to fulfill this promise.
          2. IT
            IT 21 September 2013 00: 11 New
            0
            You are mistaken if you think that you turned away from him because of the vehicle. It's just that even his most ardent supporters saw what he was ...!
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 21 September 2013 00: 18 New
              +1
              Quote: BTA
              It's just that even his most ardent supporters saw what he was ...!
              Have you not seen it before? Or were they not the same before him that his behavior so offended everyone? wink
        3. Avenger711
          Avenger711 20 September 2013 17: 53 New
          0
          And marry, imagine, promised!
          And now under this guise
          Hiding, damn it, a felon.
    4. Misantrop
      Misantrop 20 September 2013 11: 20 New
      11
      Quote: domokl
      Something I do not see protests in Ukraine about joining the FTZ.

      The day before yesterday in Simferopol on Kirov Ave. there was a hefty rally just about this. Did not see? And you will not see, the silence in this regard in the media is simply a cemetery. And this meeting was far from the only one. And this despite the fact that it was nowhere to be reported ANYWHERE (all ads are destroyed instantly)
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 20 September 2013 12: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: Misantrop
        Simferopol on Kirov Ave. was a hefty rally just about this.

        in more detail, a hundred.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 20 September 2013 14: 36 New
          +5
          Quote: nick 1 and 2
          in more detail, a hundred.

          And what is more detailed there? Kirov Avenue, the bulk of the people - on Lenin Square (the very center of the city). There were almost no youth (working day nevertheless). What is characteristic, there were NO organizers, purely spontaneous. There were no announcements about the organization of the rally ANYWHERE. The media (everything, including local, city) passed this rally in FULL silence
    5. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 20 September 2013 23: 17 New
      -1
      Quote: domokl

      It is interesting, on the basis of what data do you draw such a conclusion? Based on the conversations here?


      he is a knowledgeable accountant ... retired Homegrown "analyst"
  4. Ascetic
    Ascetic 20 September 2013 10: 42 New
    18
    Quote: vladsolo56
    In fact, cooling or breaking is the activity of national governments, ordinary people do not benefit from this.


    You always need to remember one simple thing: European integration, promotion of democratic values, joining various European development programs is a policy of drawing in and consolidating anti-Russian courseFirst of all, the states neighboring with Russia. All countries that oppose Russia are free and civilized, democratic. And, God forbid, the leaders of the countries come closer to Russia, they are immediately obstructed, declared undemocratic and totalitarian, and financial and economic pressure immediately begins on them. For example, recently Armenia only announced its intention to join the Customs Union, an ecumenical democratic screech immediately began.
    If you advocate an alliance with Russia, then you are a dictator, a tyrant; and if oriented to the West, then, accordingly, a fighter for freedom, democracy and against tyranny. Everything is logical, civilized peoples must confront Russian Asian barbarism.
    Therefore, the West actually needs Ukraine only if its leadership will pursue an anti-Russian policy.
    Comprador power in Ukraine is corrupt and closely tied to the West with its money and assets. This cannot be said about Putin, Sechin, Ivanov, Rogozin, for example, although the liberal fifth column in Russia does not fall silent for a minute regarding Putin and his foreign assets. It is no coincidence that the news about the intention of the same financial lobby is again being discussed on a neighboring branch in the US freeze up namely Putin's banks VEB.VTB and Gazprombank, which were created in opposition to the instrument of American financial occupation of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation.
    Therefore, multi-vector, the search for economic benefits from joining the CU and the EU, all this is verbiage that disguises the true goals and objectives of the Ukrainian government- confrontation with Russia in the interests of Western countries.
    This policy was pursued by Kravchuk, Kuchma, naturally, Yushchenko, and now Yanukovych is pursuing it. Western mentors do not need a steadily developing, wealthy European country with an educated and hardworking people. They need beggars, embittered marginals, who hate Russia and Russians with fierce hatred. And the marginalization of society always leads to the search for an external and internal enemy .. and you don’t have to look far for the enemy, it has long been determined by the ideology of the Ukrainian project itself - these are Russia and Russians.
    The technologies have been worked out for a long time, it is enough to recall the experience of Germany where, in the wake of the most severe crisis, national shame and poverty, the Nazis brought power to power. In Ukraine, the extreme democratic elections have already given the first bell to such a scenario - nationalists are increasingly taking power.
    Well, politicians and deputies in Ukraine argue something like this: If I advocate a rapprochement with Russia, I lose my mandate, the tax business will find a lot of things, and offshore accounts and real estate in Montenegro can be bye-bye. Won Cyprus is an example. Yes, and American bankers can ruin. If I vote for the euro - her mother - integration, then I will save denyuzhku and mandate. Ukraine will not be covered tomorrow and not until 2015, so, I suppose, they will give some kind of credit (they promised 1 billion dollars, provided that they get closer to the EU), so that at first they would have fun like the Baltic states once.
    Well, there is either a donkey or a padish, why look so far? You can always dump it later on the Cote d'Azur to your beloved daughter, who has been living there for a long time.
    1. andrejwz
      andrejwz 20 September 2013 11: 11 New
      +5
      Quote: Ascetic
      If you advocate an alliance with Russia, then you are a dictator, a tyrant; and if oriented to the West, then, respectively,

      .... Piderast?
      1. Watson J.
        Watson J. 21 September 2013 00: 23 New
        0
        Well, why so? You can gently call - GOAT wassat
  5. Ram chandra
    Ram chandra 21 September 2013 09: 35 New
    +1
    And we will be back in the Bronze Age!
  6. Hunghuz
    Hunghuz 22 September 2013 02: 29 New
    0
    hi The Pereyaslvskaya Rada and Khmelnitsky will be replaced by the Berdichev Rada with the hetman Kapitelman and the heyduk Tsymes .........))) history can be easily rewritten in the textbook)
  • RussianRu
    RussianRu 20 September 2013 08: 57 New
    +7
    Yeah. Russia is to blame for the fact that Ukraine takes on the Geyropov bondage. The lips were puffed up and went looking for an alternative, ha. Now I’m trying to lay a straw, like Moscow is to blame. But there’s nothing that for 20 years they received gas for nothing, but they all the same looked into the mouth of the EU members. All this is sad. Well, that’s the choice of the Ukrainian “elite”.
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 20 September 2013 10: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: Russian
      20 years for nothing received gas

      What year? Specifically, numbers, prices, volumes.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 20 September 2013 11: 23 New
        +5
        No arguments? Some cons. laughing This shows that emotions speak in you, not logic. Ie, there are no such facts, but the media suggested that for free we give gas at an emotional level. And the person without hesitation repeats behind the TV.
        The question that should arise in the Russian: why are we being incited to Ukraine? Why do they constantly form a negative image of Ukrainians? (While keeping quiet for Caucasians, Asians) And are we the same road, comrades? And who benefits from Inspiring the Russians that the Ukrainians are enemies? Is it useful for Russia? And who owns the media that inspire it? Etc.
        But it’s easier not to think about it. And nod for the media. And thoughtlessly repeat and then sincerely believe in the repeated.
        1. Jake danzels
          Jake danzels 20 September 2013 11: 36 New
          +6
          Why do you think I have a negative rating? I ask specific questions (similar to yours which is higher), I never received an answer to them, but only a minus. Tolley brains were washed. Fractions, felts yet. In continuation: the media in the Russian Federation, having watched the TV of the Russian Federation, the impression was that all around the enemies and everyone were wrong except for the Russian Federation (all the musketeers I’m one D'artanyan).
          I have many friends from the Russian Federation (Samara, Tula, Moscow, Vorkuta, Kursk, by the way, the latter go to Kiev today) after visiting Ukraine (Kiev, Lviv) they change their minds about the people. Why were there only questions to the kstalt "Will they beat us for the Russian language?"
          Citizens of the Russian Federation, you blindly believe that only enemies are sitting here (Ukraine), etc., you write more dirt, write that we steal gas from you, parasites who were sitting on the neck of the USSR, about the fact that in the Second World War they fought for Germany ( for reference from the whole family, 12 people took part in the Red Army to the front, returned 1) and so on, here are more of such articles and your enemies will be guaranteed here.
          Each action has a consequence.
          1. avt
            avt 20 September 2013 15: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: Jake Danzels
            Citizens of the Russian Federation, you blindly believe that only enemies are sitting here (Ukraine), etc., you write more dirt, write that we steal gas from you, parasites who were sitting on the neck of the USSR, about the fact that in the Second World War they fought for Germany ( for reference from the whole family, 12 people took part in the Red Army to the front, returned 1) and so on, here are more of such articles and your enemies will be guaranteed here.

            But this is nice. Didn’t they steal gas? Naturally, not without the knowledge of Vyakhirev and Chernomyrdin. What shisha did Julia rise with Firtash? At the expense of the parasites, it’s not for us, I well remember how it was said in Ukraine that we ate your lard and wheat too. Well, it’s really not worth remembering the sacred here, all those who defended our united power and passed it on, and then under the general glee of the majority in Bialowieza, her drunken gop company tore up national ribbons. So you end up with your insults and better build real economic relations under capitalism. Everything, the State Planning Commission is gone, died with the USSR, nobody lives for you will not chop. Moreover, even within the framework of the CU you do not want to adhere to joint decisions. So with what fright should your interests be higher than those who are in the CU? And at the expense of the enemies - I advise you more carefully. When we encountered amers in Transcaucasia, we definitely found out who they hired there.
          2. azkolt
            azkolt 21 September 2013 11: 27 New
            +2
            That's right, dear Jake Danzels, that's right! I very much sympathize with the loss of your loved ones in the fields of WWII. But what kind of opinion could my father have, for example, when the Germans occupied his village in 41 and he was a 12 year old boy who had two skirmishes with two German soldiers, one of which nearly ended in death. And by a strange coincidence, both times German soldiers were represented by Ukrainians. I asked my father, maybe this was one part, consisting of them. He said no.
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 20 September 2013 12: 40 New
          +5
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          The question that should arise in the Russian: why are we being incited to Ukraine?


          then senile grumbling = do not pay attention to it.

          And the relationship is normal! This media (yuga magazine) is inflating -

          Maneuvers = commercial - no more. Everyone is looking for their own benefit.

          What about the people? AAAAAAAAAAA - such a trifle! women are looking to give birth wink joke.
          And who remembered him?
        3. RussianRu
          RussianRu 20 September 2013 15: 13 New
          +2
          http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Газовые_конфликты_между_Россией_и_Украиной
        4. True
          True 21 September 2013 10: 02 New
          +3
          I apologize for my compatriots. You are right in everything ... Maybe at least in Ukraine it will be possible to save a piece of the Russian world. In Russia, the Zion-Caucasian state has long been. Russians are dying, Russians remain, alas.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 21 September 2013 12: 08 New
            0
            Quote: True
            Russians are dying, Russians remain, alas.

            Whose fault is this?
            These are the families that should be so that the Russian world does not disappear
            1. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 21 September 2013 12: 30 New
              +2
              Is Setrac a photo of your family?
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 21 September 2013 13: 32 New
                0
                Quote: gladiatorakz
                Is Setrac a photo of your family?

                No, my family is smaller, I'm in the process, if I persuade my wife winked . It can be seen that the families in the photo are different. I just gave an example.
          2. Setrac
            Setrac 21 September 2013 12: 09 New
            +1
            And now, give birth to children and you will be happy.
      2. Witch
        Witch 20 September 2013 11: 25 New
        +5
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        What year? Specifically, numbers, prices, volumes.


        In fact, in the period 1992-1997.
        As a result, such a wild debt was formed that the Ukrainian leadership offered virtually for gratuitous use of the Sevastopol naval base as compensation ...
        The exact numbers can be found in the basic agreement on the Black Sea Fleet.
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 20 September 2013 11: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Witch
          In fact, in the period 1992-1997.
          As a result, such wild debt was formed.

          That is not free?
          1. andrejwz
            andrejwz 20 September 2013 12: 42 New
            +3
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            That is not free?

            I’m paying for gas in Russia, but are you disabled?
            1. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 20 September 2013 13: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: andrejwz
              I’m paying for gas in Russia, but are you disabled?

              Glory to the Gods is not. Not very disabled. Nobody says that we need gas for free. So do not distort. But the question of why you pay for your Russian gas, you don’t ask yourself? After all, these are folk resources? You tell me about the budget, etc. And I will offer you to calculate what more has been done for this money, built ships of the Navy or bought superyachts for all sorts of Abramovichs.
              1. edge
                edge 20 September 2013 14: 07 New
                +2
                Quote: gladiatorakz
                that's the question why you pay for your Russian gas, you don’t ask yourself? After all, these are folk resources? You tell me about the budget, etc. And I will offer you to calculate what more has been done for this money, built ships of the Navy or bought superyachts for all sorts of Abramovich

                don’t distort, we all plunged into one swamp; but some climb out, helping others, and other comrades drown ........
                1. gladiatorakz
                  gladiatorakz 21 September 2013 10: 35 New
                  0
                  Quote: hert
                  don’t distort, we all plunged into one swamp; but some climb out, helping others, and other comrades drown ........

                  I offer you less emotions. I’m not drowning anyone. Who drowned, everyone drowned. )))).
                  The second one. Analyze yourself, without the help of the media. After all, they belong to someone? And it is profitable for someone to show someone bad, and good oneself. The analogy with the USA. They painted the axis of evil. They appointed entire countries and peoples as enemies. And the Americans believe in it! So it is here. Someone is beneficial that the Russians consider themselves better than the Ukrainians. Every day, a one-sided "truth" is pouring into Ukraine. They are now conducting their axis of evil.
              2. edge
                edge 20 September 2013 14: 10 New
                0
                we didn’t fatten in the 90s (tightening our belts), and even more so we didn’t rip you off: did you help us at least once?
            2. I am a Russian
              I am a Russian 20 September 2013 23: 23 New
              -3
              Quote: andrejwz
              I’m paying for gas in Russia,


              pay not only for yourself ... paid not only for yourself, but also for them (ukrov) ... in Russia there are millions of you
              In Russia, gas prices were raised to offset their debt.
              1. gladiatorakz
                gladiatorakz 21 September 2013 10: 23 New
                0
                Quote: I am a Russian
                pay not only for yourself ... paid not only for yourself, but also for them (ukrov) ... in Russia there are millions of you
                In Russia, gas prices were raised to compensate for their debt

                Neighing.
                1. I am a Russian
                  I am a Russian 23 September 2013 21: 37 New
                  0
                  this is better

                  Now Ukraine has not died, neither glory, nor will,
                  Now to us, brother youngii, the share is smiled.
                  To make our vorozhki, like dew on the sun,
                  We’ll trick them, brother, at our side.
                  .
                  We will put the soul for our freedom.
                  I show, by our means, brother, Cossack family.

                  Developing country anthem -
                  the first line is not "Nowhere Ukraine died, not glory, not will", but "Nowhere Ukraine died not glory, not will". There is a difference;)
                  And only the first 6 lines are officially accepted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. True
                True 21 September 2013 10: 33 New
                +3
                Open your eyes, Old Man and then tried to throw.
      3. andrejwz
        andrejwz 20 September 2013 12: 39 New
        +8
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        Quote: Russian
        20 years for nothing received gas

        What year? Specifically, numbers, prices, volumes.


        The gas conflict between Russia and Ukraine in 2005-2006. was caused by the intention of the Russian concern Gazprom to increase the price of natural gas supplied to Ukraine. This step was consistent with Gazprom’s overall focus. by bringing gas export prices for post-Soviet states in full accordance with the price level in the European gas market.
        Pursuant to this decision, "in relation to gas prices for 2006 for Ukraine, Russia in early June 2005 demanded that the price increase from January 1, 2006 from the current 50 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m up to 160 dollars "
        I don’t remember something, that until 2006, Ukraine, or rather the government of Ukraine, taking advantage of the privileges provided by Russia, blazed with the desire of a real economic union.
      4. RussianRu
        RussianRu 20 September 2013 15: 12 New
        +3
        Wrong, not 20 years, but 14.
        The specifics? Please.
        Ukraine before 2005 bought gas for $ 50 per thousand cubic meters. Moreover, Ukraine resold surpluses. And still not bad denyushki had for gas transit. At that time, for western Europe the price was $ 181 per thousand cubic meters.

        Further, Yushchenko’s phenomenal policy (support for the United States on the issue of Euro-missile defense, etc.). Led the purchase of gas to the price of $ 130 per thousand cubic meters (2007).

        After 2009. the price is known to you.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 20 September 2013 18: 40 New
          0
          Quote: Russian
          Wrong, not 20 years, but 14.

          Sori, they answered ... did not see.
          Quote: Russian
          Ukraine before 2005 bought gas for $ 50 per thousand cubic meters. Moreover, Ukraine resold surpluses. And still not bad denyushki had for gas transit. At that time, for western Europe the price was $ 181 per thousand cubic meters.

          There was a deal with reselling (and Russia did the same with gas from Central Asia and what?). The price for transit is invested in the price for the buyer, it is not the country the supplier pays, and Russia also took money for the transit of gas, which is normal) The price was 181 since 2001 (well, or for some special countries). He wrote an example. For Germany, before the jump in oil prices (since 2001), prices were above 130 bucks, with all the transit costs I did not see. Yes, and why? gas and oil were then cheap all over the world
      5. Corneli
        Corneli 20 September 2013 17: 18 New
        +4
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        What year? Specifically, numbers, prices, volumes.

        from 89 to 2001, the global price of both gas and oil was kept at a minimum (oil 18-25 cu). Then the agreement to reduce the production of OPEC countries, the Iraq war and the price began to fly upward with space speed. And already in 2005, the oil price surpassed $ 100. (rise 5 !!! times). By the way, on the topic of “gas pop”, Germany bought 90-130 from the time of the USSR. Moreover, they were "enemies" and this includes the price of transit.
        The gas conflict arose just in 2005 (from 91 to 2005 - it's 14 years old). Everyone wanted more money (Russia for increasing global value, Ukraine for transit). As a result, Ukraine received gas at 140 (for starters) and linking the price of gas to oil prices (which really works strangely and the price of 300 + for gas, and for oil at 200 cu in 2007, and at 60 cu in 2008 and at 100 in 2010).
        There was another “funny” nuance with Turkmenistan. After the gas scandal, the Turkmens continued to sell gas to Ukraine "by writing" (dark people)), Gazprom decided to make a "knight's move" (purely brotherly) and offered 60 cu for "Ukrainian" gas The Turkmens agreed (moreover, the "Russian" gas that Gazprom bought and remained "hanging"). The next year, the Turkmen-Bashi finally realized that everyone was cutting loot and that he was still living in the USSR alone. He looked at prices and suggested that Russia and Ukraine buy gas at 100! laughing Ukraine agreed (100 is still less than 140+). Gazprom - was indignant and refused, but in order to "take revenge" both the evil Ukrainians and the insidious Turkmens banned the transit of Turkemn gas to Ukraine.
        From tak ... nya malyata - as the unforgettable grandfather Panas used to say.
        PS
        Quote: Russian
        And there’s nothing that they got gas for 20 years for nothing, but they still stared into the mouth of the EU

        RusskiyRu is unlikely to answer you, because I wrote off) for development, so to speak. hi
  • Warrawar
    Warrawar 20 September 2013 08: 59 New
    -2
    The gap has already occurred, just many have not yet realized this. In Ukraine, a new generation has grown up brought up in hatred of Russia and all Russian.
    The United States and its allies have accomplished their mission of encircling Russia with hateful states. Most likely, after some time, the final stage of their plan will begin, to launch a massive offensive from all sides.
    As for Ukraine ... there is no more hostile state in relation to Russia than Ukraine.
    1. Jake danzels
      Jake danzels 20 September 2013 11: 21 New
      +9
      Yes, you’re right, we’re just thinking about how to make you sad or do dirty tricks (sarcasm).

      Do not write nonsense dear.
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 20 September 2013 13: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: Jake Danzels
        Yes, you’re right, we’re just thinking about how to make you sad or do dirty tricks (sarcasm).


        Well - there is a grain of truth, many of them! but the truth is that dearer - there are no others.

        but it always happened = dislike among siblings - it happens, and she is the strongest, in this case!

        TIME HEALS! EVERYTHING PASSES!
        so - temporary squabbles. smile
    2. Witch
      Witch 20 September 2013 11: 30 New
      +4
      Quote: Warrawar
      As for Ukraine ... there is no more hostile state in relation to Russia than Ukraine


      Have you forgotten about the great bucks ...
      But Ukraine is different .... it is changing ...
      10-15 years ago, many were not averse to building a joint state, but 7-8 years ago, the trend changed (young people grew up who grew up in an independent state and largely judged by Russia by the media and video content (various crap films about brothers and cops )).
      In this connection, the possibility of unification of our states in one form or another has passed the point of no return ... Sadly, this is the will of the majority. And this should be taken for granted and ... respected.
    3. etrusk
      etrusk 20 September 2013 11: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: Warrawar

      As for Ukraine ... there is no more hostile state in relation to Russia than Ukraine.

      Yah? And the Baltic states? This is from the closest. And the USA and Britain? This is from the long-standing, real, cunning and consistent.
      1. Warrawar
        Warrawar 20 September 2013 12: 11 New
        -1
        Quote: etrusk
        And the USA and Britain? This is from the long-standing, real, cunning and consistent.

        Yes, the United States and Britain are real enemies - cunning and consistent. And Ukraine is the sixth of the USA and Britain, but stupid and mediocre.
        1. Korben
          Korben 21 September 2013 13: 19 New
          +4
          You have a delusional disorder enhanced by delusions of grandeur!
    4. Russ69
      Russ69 20 September 2013 11: 54 New
      +7
      Quote: Warrawar
      As for Ukraine ... there is no more hostile state in relation to Russia than Ukraine.

      Warrawar, wherever you look, some ardent enemies that are outside the Russian Federation, as in the country itself ...
      Well, it’s not worth rowing all under one comb and making an idea of ​​the people solely on the negative.
    5. edge
      edge 20 September 2013 14: 14 New
      0
      Quote: Warrawar
      As for Ukraine ... there is no more hostile state in relation to Russia than Ukraine

      there are also neighbors, Poland and the whole Baltic. angry even the Japs, the Caucasus and the Chinas, but I’ll keep silent about the British and their fosterlings.
    6. Corneli
      Corneli 20 September 2013 17: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Warrawar
      As for Ukraine ... there is no more hostile state in relation to Russia than Ukraine.

      LLC we even the USA, Poles and Georgians surpassed ?! And I didn’t know ( lol
      1. I am a Russian
        I am a Russian 20 September 2013 23: 31 New
        -1
        Quote: Corneli
        LLC we even the USA, Poles and Georgians surpassed ?!


        Georgia (Georgian SSR) and Ukraine (ussr) ... Union republics of the USSR.
        The United States and Poles were not part of the USSR at the time of the collapse.
    7. Korben
      Korben 20 September 2013 20: 55 New
      +1
      Which forest do you live in? Stop the tantrum!
      Ask the residents of Belgorod, Kursk and Rostov regions, for example. How do they feel when they come to us to relax, buy "low-quality products" and so on.
      They are not masochists - 100%.
  • Vld
    Vld 20 September 2013 08: 59 New
    15
    The article is fairly true and does not contain insulting statements in both directions (like the latter on this resource), so it is definitely a plus. I have a similar opinion on this issue. I would not want to lose partnership, let alone friendly relations with Russia.
    1. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 20 September 2013 12: 27 New
      +2
      [quote] [[quote = Vld] The article is fairly true and does not contain offensive language in both directions [/ quote]
      [quote = Vld] friendly relations with Russia. [/ quote]


      Bravo.
  • Stiletto
    Stiletto 20 September 2013 09: 04 New
    +7
    Panas are fighting, men’s forelocks are cracking. Russians and Ukrainians are brothers forever, at least, this certainly applies to Eastern Ukraine. We are connected not only by a thousand-year history, but also by kinship, namely kinship. And no politics with the economy will ruin them. My brother graduated from the Kharkiv Guards Higher Command named after the Supreme Council of the Ukrainian SSR tank school, and before the collapse of the Union, he served in Ukraine, he had a family there. When the Union began to crack at the seams, he was offered to swear allegiance to Ukraine, to graduate from the Academy of the Ukrainian General Staff. He said: "They do not change or sell their homeland. I swore allegiance to another country, and I will remain faithful to it." In Russia, however, he "didn’t take the court" - he worked as a mechanic and as an engineer, although he dreamed of a military career as a lover, he was, he remained. Now he works as a guard, but he remains faithful to his principles.

    "Maybe you don’t see? Yes, you’re not blind, it seems ... Motherland, Motherland, Motherland."
    1. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 20 September 2013 12: 54 New
      -1
      Quote: Stiletto
      In Russia, however, he "didn’t come to court" - he worked as a mechanic and as an engineer, although he dreamed of a military career, he was, he remained. Now he works as a guard, but he remains faithful to his principles.


      Why in Russia? - just .... but where was he? And why not recover? (now at Shoigu)
      1. Stiletto
        Stiletto 20 September 2013 14: 37 New
        +2
        He had two years before retirement. And such, there is a tacit attitude - do not take on the service. It provides itself now. There are hands, there are legs, the man’s head is also in place. It will not disappear from hunger, even though the sediment has remained ...
    2. edge
      edge 20 September 2013 14: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Stiletto
      Panas fight, men’s forelocks crack

      A swine fever bacillus started in Ukraine .............
      1. Korben
        Korben 21 September 2013 13: 23 New
        0
        Ha ha ha Joke of the year! This is sarcasm of course!
        The name of the country is capitalized! Do not fall so low!
  • Oberst_71
    Oberst_71 20 September 2013 09: 05 New
    +5
    I will say more! It is practically impossible to break the relationship between the peoples of these two countries. In the RF Armed Forces, up to 35% (graduation from military schools 1988-1993) are Ukrainians. Many mixed marriages. and do not forget a lot of Russians in Ukraine (many northerners moved to Ukraine during the Soviet years) Although, of course, unfriendly forces at a high level are trying to alienate the two peoples. Now there is practically no direct train. communication with Ukraine from the Far East, Transbaikalia and Siberia. from the Urals 1 train left N. Tagil-Kharkiv. But completely different trains appeared from Tashkent, Almaty and other Asian countries. Every day, masses of guest workers leave these trains.
  • Vld
    Vld 20 September 2013 09: 06 New
    +7
    Quote: Warrawar
    The gap has already occurred, just many have not yet realized this. In Ukraine, a new generation has grown up brought up in hatred of Russia and all Russian.

    What makes you think that there was a gap? Look less at your box. I watch the news on your channels and ours, so on Russian we are just enemies. And as for the new generation, so their politics are of little interest, there are more interesting and useful things. My generation sees in Russia a partner and friend, but on mutually beneficial conditions.
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 20 September 2013 09: 18 New
      -9
      Quote: Vld
      My generation sees in Russia a partner and friend, but on mutually beneficial conditions.

      Your friends are GUAM, and establish relations with them on “mutually beneficial” conditions, and we will somehow manage.
  • Oberst_71
    Oberst_71 20 September 2013 09: 08 New
    +5
    Otto von Bismarck:
    “The power of Russia can be undermined only by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, set off two parts of a single nation and watch how brother will kill his brother. To do this, you only need to find and cultivate traitors among the national elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 20 September 2013 13: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: Oberst_71
      Otto von Bismarck:
      “The power of Russia can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it ...

      The short-sighted man was this Bismarck, unless of course these were his words! Russia became a powerful empire WITHOUT Ukraine, which joined later. The power of the state in the titular nation, which has not disappeared.
      1. xan
        xan 20 September 2013 20: 59 New
        -3
        Quote: Setrac
        The near-witted man was this Bismarck, unless of course these are his words

        Bismarck is smart but out of date.
        1. rainufa
          rainufa 21 September 2013 01: 36 New
          0
          nothing is eternal.
  • shark
    shark 20 September 2013 09: 10 New
    -11
    It is interesting, but who allowed the Ukrainians to ban our territories with shale gas production?
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 20 September 2013 11: 15 New
      +5
      Quote: shark
      who allowed the Ukrainians to ban our territories with shale gas production?
      And this is so that the desire to take away does not arise. Who needs an environmental disaster area with an endangered and scattering population?
      1. shark
        shark 20 September 2013 17: 37 New
        -4
        Probably us. Our land. Ukraine and Western women are temporarily there ..
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 20 September 2013 23: 11 New
          0
          Quote: shark
          Ukrainian and Western women are temporarily there ..
          Alas, these guys act like in that old joke:

          - Petro, and if you made a schob, if you were to become king?
          - Oooh, fat with fat would have been standing in tar for motnya would have been, and then a hundred rubles would have been stealing that and wik ...

          So, most likely, you will have to wait until they "steal and hit the road." And then for decades, if not more, to rake what they have time to nakulesit ... sad
        2. georg737577
          georg737577 21 September 2013 00: 03 New
          +2
          How much do provocateurs now pay for inciting hatred between nations? Answer shark!
          1. shark
            shark 21 September 2013 13: 08 New
            -2
            I’m not a provocateur. I just don’t like traitors. And Ukraine behaves just like that
    2. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 21 September 2013 00: 03 New
      0
      Quote: shark
      It is interesting, but who allowed the Ukrainians to ban our territories with shale gas production?


      Ukrainian says that gas does not steal
  • OLDTODD
    OLDTODD 20 September 2013 09: 17 New
    +2
    I completely agree with ViD !!! All these top graters with a strong sweetheart. As the saying goes - "Panas fight at the lackeys forelocks crack!"
    Here it is necessary to decide specifically either on bollards, or to smithereens !!! Finished sorry if to smithereens!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • avt
    avt 20 September 2013 09: 43 New
    +7
    “Each day the validity of this unequal agreement alienates one state from another, more and more cooling relations between them.” said the Ukrainian prime minister. --------- No, well, Pushkin is our everything !!! ,, More than ever, the old woman scolds. You fool are a simpleton! " laughing ,, So, at the end of 2012, the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade offered government support for Russian car builders. This was done with one goal - to create for "their" protection from Ukrainian competitors - Krukovka Carriages and Azovmash. The year before, the Russian, Belarusian and Kazakh factories created a certain organization, which, in fact, blocked the Ukrainian export of these products to these states. Meanwhile, in former times, the volume of Ukrainian export of wagons to Russia reached 45-50 percent. In addition, it should be noted that the Russian government recently announced its intention to build cars in Latvia, and not in Ukraine. "--------- So, for the fraternal relations" it was necessary to ruin their factories and Kazakhs with Belarusians in addition? Here are the Lithuanians, by the way, they also have graters with Gazprom, they stuck their show-offs for a long time in ... and for a dollar at least ... they will kiss them. That's what European education means in the European Union! So associate, live a little according to the rules of universal people and we will all be happy, although I think the Mpters in Russia will be to blame for the fact that they “dissolved” the independent in the European Union, well, we couldn’t persuade them to fraternally join the CU. Well, not We thought about Ukraine every day, didn’t make equal offers of profit.
    1. ikar2006
      ikar2006 20 September 2013 10: 30 New
      +3
      Why do you citizens of Russia so hate Ukraine. Speaking of brother-in-law, Europe or a geyropa (by the way, we also have a geyropa). And frankly, the gas problems have already been reached. Well, tell me, brothers, the Russians why, by brotherhood, Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per tkub. on the border of Ukraine and Russia, and Ukraine buys Russian gas from Germany at $ 390 / t. and this is taking into account the fact that gas passed to Germany through Ukraine 1200 km. Poland 600 km. came back from Germany through Poland 600 km. and costs $ 140 / per tkub. cheaper. This is called a brotherly country. And as for the Krukovka Car Building Plant, it has long been half owned by Russian investors. So chop the branch on which you sit. Yes, and many other questions actually. Cheese, sweets and so on and so forth. This is called simply. Trade war. And if Ukraine introduced any barriers to Russian goods, then only as a response. It is unfortunate that many of us who were born in one big country now, for the sake of politicians, have already begun to forget the great country that we built, defended, adored.
      1. avt
        avt 20 September 2013 11: 06 New
        +9
        Quote: ikar2006
        Why do you citizens of Russia so hate Ukraine.

        This is why such a fright such conclusions? Just from the fact that we’re not scratching your ears that you are so smart, intelligent?
        Quote: ikar2006
        Well, tell me, brothers, the Russians why, by brotherhood, Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per tkub. on the border of Ukraine and Russia

        But because your Julia broke the contract at one time, rejoicing how it was then profitable. Well, they could not even calculate the consequences one step ahead, are YOUR problems created by YOUR maidan leadership. Is Russia here? Friendship is friendship, but money apart. Especially since blackmailing the base in Sevastopol, the new leadership knocked out a discount on gas. But as it turned out, they miscalculated again. Can you choose someone smarter and not blame us for our troubles?
        Quote: ikar2006
        And as for the Krukovka Car Building Plant, it has long been half owned by Russian investors.

        Well, we also went through this, when we broke off a number of contracts with the Uzbeks on the Ilam, and here, Old Man, it’s even better, but at times he gives those numbers, he won’t even take the hostages. what the Old Man in the vehicle is trained? laughing
        Quote: ikar2006
        Cheese, sweets and so on and so forth. This is called simply. Trade war. And if Ukraine introduced any barriers to Russian goods, then only as a response.

        Such is capitalism, but do you naively believe that this is not so in the European Union? So it’s even more fun there, to Greece and Italy, simply, “crisis managers” from Goldman Sachs were appointed at one time, without any “democratic will” such as elections and discounts on independent sovereignty. Russia's imperial approach to Ukraine against this background is babble.
        Quote: ikar2006
        And if Ukraine introduced any barriers to Russian goods, then only as a response.

        And note - no one really bothered about this, although I would have looked if somewhere in Albania, in the sense of Kosovo, someone had tried to check with the American military at the exit from the base whether there are visas or not, as well as with some sort of duties, imported goods, so, purely fraternally.
        Quote: ikar2006
        It is unfortunate that many of us who were born in one big country now, for the sake of politicians, have already begun to forget the great country that we built, defended, adored.

        The country remained, firmly pokotsanaya, plundered by the Likhodya, not as great as before, but not completely killed.
        1. edge
          edge 20 September 2013 14: 29 New
          +4
          Quote: avt
          The country remained, firmly pokotsanaya, plundered by the Likhodya, not as great as before, but not completely killed

          And we will pull her to the very top, as has happened more than once.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 20 September 2013 11: 07 New
        +7
        Quote: ikar2006
        Well, tell me, brothers, the Russians why, by brotherhood, Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per tkub. on the border of Ukraine and Russia, and Ukraine buys Russian gas from Germany at $ 390 / t.
        Why? Yes, because what exactly about this was agreed personally by Tymoshenko. It was FAVORABLE for her, as she, as an intermediary, receives her percentage from each cubic meter of gas received. Say thanks to this "Lady Bagel" request
      3. Ascetic
        Ascetic 20 September 2013 11: 41 New
        +7
        Quote: ikar2006
        Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per cubic meter. on the border of Ukraine and Russia


        The average cost of natural gas imported by Ukraine from Russia in July 2013 made up 406,56 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters m average import price for the first half of 2013 - about 415,2 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m for 7 months - about 414 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m
        link
        The cost of gas that Ukraine buys from Gazprom is now determined according to the contract signed by the parties in January 2009. It is calculated quarterly based on the average price of petroleum products on the European market for the previous 9 months, and is also deducted. 30% discount received for extending the lease of the base of the Black Sea Fleet.
        Ukraine considers the base price of $ 450 per thousand cubic meters to be too high and insists on a price of $ 250.
        Europeans after signing an association agreement with the EU offer Ukraine increase gas tariffs and release the hryvnia,to offset trade restrictions by Russia. In particular, experts included in the IMF structure have already developed a short-term plan with the goal of signing an agreement with the IMF on which Ukraine obliged to fulfill their requirements
        to increase exchange rate flexibility and increase energy tariffs, because that is the only way to achieve macroeconomic stability ”

        Based on the IMF program, Ukraine could receive additional financial support from the EU and international financial institutions.
        So soon you will be saved from the economic and political pressure of the Russian oligarchs and evil Putin and there will be happiness for all with loans from the IMF, an increase in the hryvnia exchange rate, an increase in tariffs for the population to European levels and other “happiness” that we have already passed under their strict guidance in Russia all this defaulted in 1998.
        1. Kars
          Kars 20 September 2013 11: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          I have a 30% discount

          ))))
          Ukraine will receive a discount on the price of gas in the amount of $ 100 if the price of gas is more than $ 330 per thousand cubic meters, or a discount of 30% of the contract amount if the price is below $ 330


          Quote: Ascetic
          in particular, experts included in the IMF structure have already developed a short-term plan with the goal of signing an agreement with the IMF on which Ukraine is obliged to fulfill their requirements

          We have not been cooperating with the IMF for three years, and it is precisely because of energy tariffs for the population.
          Quote: Ascetic
          in July 2013 amounted to 406,56 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m, the average import price for the first half of 2013 - about 415,2 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m, for 7 months - about 414 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m

          So this price is a hike with an already discounted $ 100 discount.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 20 September 2013 12: 37 New
            +9
            Quote: Kars
            We have not been cooperating with the IMF for three years, and it is precisely because of energy tariffs for the population.


            currently Ukraine continues negotiations with the IMF regarding the resumption of financing in the amount of $ 15 billion under a program suspended in 2011. In 2013, IMF representatives visited Ukraine twice from January 29 to February 12 and from March 10 to April 27. No tangible progress was achieved in negotiations with the fund, as the international lender continues to insist on fulfilling a number of requirements unpopular from the point of view of the Ukrainian authorities, including raising gas tariffs, switching to a flexible hryvnia exchange rate and others.

            Recall also, earlier the head of the EU Delegation to Ukraine, Yan Tombinsky, said that EU financial assistance to Ukraine depends on an agreement with the IMF.
            link

            So resuming cooperation is a matter of the near future.

            Now Ukraine is in talks with the IMF on a new stand-by agreement. Kiev expects to receive a multi-billion loan from the Fund, which will facilitate payments on previous loans.
            The Cabinet believes that there is a chance to get a new loan. “We are talking about a new program providing for a loan of about $ 15 billion. Although discussions are ongoing on this issue. In the fall we are waiting for the arrival of a mission that will solve everything. Now we are finalizing issues that are important for the IMF, and I think that we should sign the long-awaited in the fall agreement, "said First Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Arbuzov recently. According to him, the parties are trying to find a compromise.
            By the end of this year - in October and November - Ukraine should make 4 more payments of the loan body for a total of $ 1,56 billion and one payment of debt servicing for $ 21,8 million. The next payment of $ 649 million according to the schedule is due on October 30 .
            link

            The management of the International Monetary Fund on July 29 released information according to which The Fund considers it necessary to introduce close monitoring of the economic situation in Ukraine. Moreover, reports Reuters, The IMF requires Ukraine full access to information on the state of the economy. It is reported that this decision was made at the request of American lenders.
            It is hardly accidental that the IMF issued this statement after the visit of Russian President V. Putin to Ukraine. The veiled goal of fund requirements is easy to read. Namely, the leadership of Ukraine made it clear that any attempt to rapprochement with Russia is fraught with increased IMF requirements.
            Such statements indicate that Ukraine is increasingly falling under external management by international financial institutions. Making concessions to the IMF, the country is gradually losing its sovereignty.
            link
            1. Kars
              Kars 20 September 2013 13: 33 New
              +1
              Quote: Ascetic
              In 2013, IMF representatives visited Ukraine twice from January 29 to February 12 and from March 10 to April 27. No tangible progress was achieved in negotiations with the fund, as an international lender

              And what did I say in your opinion?
              Quote: Ascetic
              So resuming cooperation is a matter of the near future.

              But not the fact that under THEIR conditions.
              Quote: Ascetic
              According to him, the parties are trying to find a compromise.




              Quote: Ascetic
              Namely, the leadership of Ukraine made it clear that any attempts at rapprochement with Russia are fraught with increased IMF requirements.

              Well, since 2011 they don’t give money, and something else to tighten.
              And what about the price of gas? There is no such broad answer?
              1. Ascetic
                Ascetic 20 September 2013 14: 13 New
                +6
                Quote: Kars
                But not the fact that under THEIR conditions.


                Do not expect. I am sure that this agreement is another act national betrayal of one’s own people

                1. Kars
                  Kars 20 September 2013 14: 21 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  Don't expect

                  Well, what have they been pulling since 2011? Faces haven’t changed.
                  And what about the price of gas? I’m most interested - Yanyk TODAY said about 520, Timothy defender YESTERDAY said 240 ((((
                  1. Ascetic
                    Ascetic 20 September 2013 16: 10 New
                    +8
                    Quote: Kars
                    And what about the price of gas?


                    The price of natural gas imported by Ukraine from Russia in July 2013 decreased by 4,8% ($ 20,2 per 1 thousand cubic meters) compared with the June price - to $ 401,5 per 1 thousand cubic meters. m, according to data released on Friday by the State Statistics Service.
                    It is symbolic that since July of this year, Ukraine increased 2,6 times (by 1 billion 202,093 million cubic meters) compared to June, the volume of purchases of Russian natural gas - up to 1 billion 855,836 million cubic meters. m
                    In this way, the average price of Russian natural gas imported to Ukraine in July 2013 was as close as possible to the price of gas imported from Europe - $ 394,9 per 1 thousand cubic meters. m (including from Germany - $ 388,6, from Hungary - $ 389,6, from Austria - $ 405,7).
                    The price of Russian gas for Ukraine in July fell to $ 401,5

                    Yes, and the need for Russian gas due to Shell and Chevron contracts will soon disappear .. Ukraine will receive its cheap gas at a price of 120-130 dollars per thousand cubic meters, So the reproaches towards Russia regarding the relatively high gas prices will disappear by themselves .. In Ukraine general prosperity, oil shale will be exported and damned m .. if they die. So don’t worry, Gazprom will soon bend and Azarov and Yanukovych will make Ukraine a Great Shale Power! crying

                    Comedy "For Two Hares"
                    The young lady lay down and sifted. smile
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 20 September 2013 16: 24 New
                      +1
                      The message contains inappropriate text for publication.

                      He writes such a picture
                  2. Corneli
                    Corneli 20 September 2013 17: 40 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Kars
                    Well, what have they been pulling since 2011? Faces haven’t changed.
                    And what about the price of gas? I’m most interested - Yanyk TODAY said about 520, Timothy defender YESTERDAY said 240 ((((

                    The ascetic burns ... 3 posts with supposedly "cheap gas" which is really more expensive than the European one and doesn’t want to write to the UPOR that the price he voices is the price with the INCLUDED 100 bucks discount ... well done!
                    And yes, what about the IMF, the ascetic is also a feil, you can pour as much water as you like about continuing the dialogues, the wishes of the parties. But all depends on the fact - there are no loans because the IMF wants to increase gas prices for the population, and Yanyk does not. We are a stubborn president. And he did not release Julia from prison, but all the same, apparently, he will sign the agreement, and then the trade wars will be "like water off a duck" and the IMF does not have authority on him. Criminal, take it from him.
                    1. Ascetic
                      Ascetic 20 September 2013 20: 58 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Corneli
                      But all depends on the fact - there are no loans because the IMF wants to increase gas prices for the population, and Yanyk does not.




                      European Commissioner for Neighborhood Policy Stefan Fule said that The European Union will provide Ukraine 610 million euros of financial assistance only if the country's authorities agree with the IMF to resume lending.

                      "The European Union is considering that in addition to resuming cooperation with the International Monetary Fund, which will provide multi-billion dollar loans to support the Ukrainian economy, the European Union will significantly increase its macro-financial support and financial assistance, subject to the signing of an association agreement in order to ensure not only verbal, but also financial support for reforms in Ukraine


                      The Ukrainian government expects to sign a new agreement with the IMF this fall.
                      link
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 20 September 2013 21: 02 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Ascetic
                        link

                        And so? The link there is no data on the increase in energy tariffs.

                        so it’s quite possible that the IMF will refuse this item. And the fact that they want to reach a consensus with the IMF can very well be. And by the way, I am for tightening international control over the spending of IMF loans.
                      2. Russ69
                        Russ69 21 September 2013 00: 00 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Kars
                        so it’s quite possible that the IMF will refuse this item. And the fact that the IMF wants to reach a consensus can very well be.

                        There will be one consensus; the IMF will dictate domestic monetary policy. Cyprus and Greece, a good example.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 21 September 2013 00: 04 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Russ69
                        There will be one consensus; the IMF will dictate domestic monetary policy. Cyprus and Greece, a good example.

                        Well, we don’t have to scare so much - we are still far from the debts of Greece and Cyprus. In fact, let’s see that what to raise tariffs for the population when the elections are not far off. And that's why, right after the parliamentary elections, when for maneuvers was the maximum - but the IMF did not make concessions.
                      4. Russ69
                        Russ69 21 September 2013 00: 29 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, do not scare so much - we are still far from the debts of Greece and Cyprus.

                        In the early 2000s, Putin, the first thing he did was to get rid of those same debts. And after that, he led his policy, cutting back on freebies to foreign companies for pumping out resources and, as a result, all large deposits fell under state companies. Then, over the year, the budget grew in 4 times.
                        If you look at the shale gas production conditions, Ukraine will get only 30%. The same bullshit was on Sakhalin, when Western companies included expenses on stationery, travel expenses and other 2 billion dollars in expenses. Like, we spent, and therefore make up for the loss of gas. Putin then poisoned Trutnev with environmental protection and issued a lawsuit for 9 billion. It all ended with the fact that the Americans and Japanese had to transfer 30% of their shares to Gazprom.
                        That's just with the debts of the IMF, such a move will not work. Most likely forced to reduce spending on social spending.
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 21 September 2013 11: 59 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Russ69
                        At the beginning of the 2000's, Putin, the first thing he did was to get rid of these debts.

                        Glad for him.
                        Quote: Russ69
                        If you look at the shale gas production conditions, then Ukraine will get only 30%. The same garbage was on Sakhalin,

                        everything was much worse on Sakhalin, but not all contract terms are known for shales.
                      6. Russ69
                        Russ69 21 September 2013 20: 12 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        everything was much worse on sakhalin

                        Exactly what happened ... And not only on Sakhalin.

                        Quote: Kars
                        .A for shales, not all contract terms are known for sure.

                        Somewhere the main provisions were published.
                  3. Ascetic
                    Ascetic 21 September 2013 01: 22 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Kars
                    Well, do not scare so much - we are still far from the debts of Greece and Cyprus. In fact, we’ll see

                    And no one scares, in fact, in the comments below, everyone explained popularly what will happen because we already went this way with IMF loans and production sharing agreements and observing the requirements of the European Parliament, and then there was international control over the spending of loans, only various Browders exercised control with the Magnitsky actually it all ended in a predictable default and the country was on the verge of territorial disintegration. In Ukraine, the same thing will happen — in 5-6 years, all competitive and technologically advanced industries will go bankrupt and turn the country into the next “Bulgaria” or the Baltic states. But in the worst case, the country will face a split
                  4. Kars
                    Kars 21 September 2013 12: 00 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Ascetic
                    In Ukraine there will be the same thing-years for 5-6 will be ruined by all competitive and technological

                    Of course. We only need this))))
  • xan
    xan 20 September 2013 21: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Ascetic
    Quote: ikar2006
    Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per cubic meter. on the border of Ukraine and Russia


    The average cost of natural gas imported by Ukraine from Russia in July 2013 amounted to 406,56 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m, the average import price for the first half of 2013 - about 415,2 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m, for 7 months - about 414 dollars per 1 thousand cubic meters. m
    link

    For whom does propaganda work?
    Who is talking about expensive gas for Ukraine?
    Maybe enough cries about super-expensive gas?
  • Tverichanka
    Tverichanka 20 September 2013 22: 52 New
    +4
    Quote: Ascetic
    all will be happy with the loans of the IMF,

    Add here the production sharing agreement for shale gas production. This is where another batch of fun will begin. Even if gas is produced, Ukraine will not see a dime for 30 years, we all went through this on Sakhalin .... ..Only they don’t have Putin ......
  • Setrac
    Setrac 20 September 2013 13: 26 New
    +6
    Quote: ikar2006
    Well, tell me, brothers, the Russians why, by brotherhood, Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per tkub. on the border of Ukraine and Russia, and Ukraine buys Russian gas from Germany at $ 390 / t.

    Firstly, the numbers are somewhat distorted to the advantage of Russophobia.
    Secondly, ask your government why they agreed to such an agreement and what they received in return.
    Thirdly, the price of gas under long-term contracts is much lower, everything is commonplace, Ukraine turned out to be optional, irresponsible, unprincipled.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 20 September 2013 14: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: Setrac
      Firstly, the numbers are somewhat distorted to the advantage of Russophobia.
      Secondly, ask your government why they agreed to such an agreement and what they received in return.
      Thirdly, the price of gas under long-term contracts is much lower, everything is commonplace, Ukraine turned out to be optional, irresponsible, unprincipled.

      And fourthly, for what reason and who needed Tymoshenko’s gas contract, if the previous one hadn’t ended yet, and the gas price in it was MUCH lower? WHO was the initiator of this contract, about which so many insults are now? what
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 20 September 2013 18: 51 New
      0
      Quote: Setrac
      Firstly, the numbers are somewhat distorted to the advantage of Russophobia

      Lies, read the polemic of Ascetic and Kars above, everything is painted there, without any "Russophobia"
      Quote: Setrac
      Secondly, ask your government why they agreed to such an agreement and what they received in return.

      We ask, the time will come, one is already sitting.
      Quote: Setrac
      Thirdly, the price of gas under long-term contracts is much lower, everything is commonplace, Ukraine turned out to be optional, irresponsible, unprincipled.

      Germany wanted to revise the price and Gazprom caved in, although by your logic this cannot be! And “optionality, irresponsibility”, etc., are just empty words, who is stronger or more favorable at the moment
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 20 September 2013 20: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: Corneli
        Lies, read the polemic of Ascetic and Kars above, everything is painted there, without any "Russophobia"

        This is a lie, they took figures from the media without reference to additional conditions.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 20 September 2013 22: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: Setrac
          This is a lie, they took figures from the media without reference to additional conditions

          STRONGEST argement! Even the ARGUMENTISM "ala Setrak"! I don’t see your “digits with bindings” point blank! Toka blah blah blah slogans and uber conclusions.
      2. xan
        xan 20 September 2013 21: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Corneli
        Germany wanted to revise the price and Gazprom caved in, although by your logic this cannot be!

        and you read the chtoli agreement, and you know what conditions there are?
        Maybe they let Gazprom go to retail?
        and indeed, such arguments - kindergarten nursery group
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 20 September 2013 23: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: xan
          and you read the chtoli agreement, and you know what conditions there are?
          Maybe they let Gazprom go to retail?
          and indeed, similar arguments - kindergarten nursery groups

          Here hardly anyone has read the FTA agreement, but how everyone comments on it! What are the "experts"!)
          And as for the contracts of Gazprom, I did not read new ones, but something came across about the courts:
          "The German company RWE said that the arbitral tribunal satisfied to a large extent its claim against Gazprom regarding the price of long-term gas supply contracts. The court decided to refund part of the payments starting in May 2010 and introduce a spot component in the price formula .
          Previously, Gazprom lost to RWE arbitration to recover fines from the importer for non-extraction of gas under the terms of take-or-pay contracts. "
          "Gazprom will have to return to RWE part of the proceeds from May 2010 with retroactive payments. According to analysts, the payments could amount to about $ 390 million.
          Following an arbitration decision, the stock price of a Russian company fell to its lowest level since January 2009. "
          We try this way) normally, from 5 times I could write a part ... so we will look right now what kind of text is inadmissible for publication!
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 20 September 2013 23: 34 New
            +1
            Gazprom paid $ 4 lard for 2012 in the form of fines to Italian, German and Greek companies.

            Admins or moderators, I still did not understand what kind of nonsense was going on ... one comment had to be broken down into 3 and tried to write these 3 comments 10 times !!! And what I was trying to write UNACCEPTABLE I did not understand! I can send the whole text, see for yourself
        2. Corneli
          Corneli 20 September 2013 23: 24 New
          +2
          “Last year, Poland, Lithuania and the Czech Republic brought lawsuits against the Russian gas monopoly. The Czech“ daughter ”RWE managed to win the dispute with Gazprom and not pay a fine for the unselected gas.
          Please note that Gazprom has no word about any “retail” or plus ... some payments of forfeit under long-term contracts. And for some reason, Gazprom cannot charge a fine for a shortage and violation of a contract, but vice versa.
          I do not know what is with this site ... 7 times to write a post it is possible to kill
          1. xan
            xan 21 September 2013 10: 41 New
            0
            Quote: Corneli
            “Last year, Poland, Lithuania and the Czech Republic brought lawsuits against the Russian gas monopoly. The Czech“ daughter ”RWE managed to win the dispute with Gazprom and not pay a fine for the unselected gas.
            Please note that Gazprom has no word about any “retail” or plus ... some payments of forfeit under long-term contracts. And for some reason, Gazprom cannot charge a fine for a shortage and violation of a contract, but vice versa.

            it’s a European court, of course they won’t award fines to themselves, all the more Russia is to blame for them all the time. What for then it was to sign the “take or pay” conditions, then it was beneficial, because Gazprom did not invent this from scratch. That is why ours began to fuss towards China and the Far East.
            Conclusions must be done.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 21 September 2013 13: 42 New
              0
              Quote: xan
              it’s a European court, of course they won’t award fines to themselves, all the more Russia is to blame for them all the time. What for then it was to sign the “take or pay” conditions, then it was beneficial, because Gazprom did not invent this from scratch. That is why ours began to fuss towards China and the Far East.
              Conclusions must be done.

              The excuses about the “European” courts went ((((You forgot where the conversation started? And I'm sorry, do not care whose court there, the fact remains, the fact was awarded and Gazprom pays, and it loses counterclaims and it’s all too early that there were take-or-pay contracts, here’s the “deflection” ... the most natural.
              As for the hustle and bustle with China ... Gazprom has been trying to sign a gas agreement with them since 2009! And how are you doing? Why do you know? The branch to South Korea, too, does not growl, although the flow of diferembes in the media was the oy of this epoch-making treaty. So everything is far from being as simple and sweet as you think.
      3. Misantrop
        Misantrop 20 September 2013 21: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Corneli
        We ask, the time will come, one is already sitting.

        Quote: Corneli
        Germany wanted to revise the price and Gazprom caved in
        And now Ukraine will bend and ... release a thief. And then they won’t let them into Europe ... request
        The solution of the issue regarding the former Prime Minister of Ukraine Yulia Tymoshenko remains among the political requirements of the European Union to Ukraine in the framework of signing the Association Agreement, said the Chairman of the Delegation of the European Union to Ukraine, Yan Tombinsky, at a briefing in the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, answering the question about the position of a part of the European Parliament not to connect the problem of one person with the European integration intentions of the entire state.
        http://podrobnosti.ua/power/2013/09/18/930850.html
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 20 September 2013 23: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: Misantrop
          And now Ukraine will bend and ... release a thief. And then they won’t let them into Europe ... request

          We take and go here:
          http://topwar.ru/33539-evrosoyuz-zabyl-pro-timoshenko-iz-za-rynka.html
          The European Union “forgot” about Tymoshenko because of the market last night they wrote on the same site. there is painted about SEE and what everyone wanted to lay on it fellow
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 September 2013 23: 51 New
            0
            Quote: Corneli
            The European Union “forgot” about Tymoshenko because of the market last night they wrote on the same site. there is painted about SEE and what everyone wanted to lay on it
            Did you forget again? Do not worry, remember. And do you know when? A day or two before signing the association documents, when the Ukrainian elite will already have the feeling that "everyone is in the ointment," not earlier. Now they just don’t want to dampen.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 20 September 2013 23: 58 New
              +2
              Quote: Misantrop
              Did you forget again? Do not worry, remember. And do you know when? A day or two before signing the association documents, when the Ukrainian elite will already have the feeling that "everyone is in the ointment," not earlier. Now they just don’t want to dampen.

              AND? She has been sitting for more than 2 years. and I’m not going to let out yet, in spite of all the threats and persuasions. this is a fact, but what you write ... just your guess)
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 21 September 2013 11: 06 New
                0
                Quote: Corneli
                I’m not going to release yet, in spite of all the threats and persuasions. this is a fact, but what you write ... just your guess)
                Bear with a little, not long left. So we'll see wink
      4. Russ69
        Russ69 20 September 2013 23: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: Corneli
        Germany wanted to revise the price and Gazprom caved in, although according to your logic this cannot be

        Russia and Belarus caved in for gas, but relations are somewhat different. With Germany, the same thing in this area is the new gas pipeline, access to domestic sales, and a whole bunch of small things. Ukraine was also offered to sell the pipe or some sort of joint venture, and so what?
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 20 September 2013 23: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Russ69
          Ukraine was also offered to sell the pipe or some sort of joint venture, and so what?
          How is that what? As usual: "WILL be LITTLE! LITTLE!" (c) This is after all - SMALL (no matter how you propose, the answer is standard) lol
          1. Korben
            Korben 21 September 2013 13: 35 New
            +1
            You can write an icon with you! How smart and angelic you are!
        2. Corneli
          Corneli 21 September 2013 00: 02 New
          +3
          Quote: Russ69
          Russia and Belarus caved in for gas, but relations are somewhat different. With Germany, the same thing in this area is the new gas pipeline, access to domestic sales, and a whole bunch of small things. Ukraine was also offered to sell the pipe or some sort of joint venture, and so what?

          Read above my answer to the khan ... because of the roofing glitches, the roof of censorship, I couldn’t write it normally, I had to cut it and write 3 posts ... but the point is that next year in 2012 Gazprom lost a bunch of dough to 5 companies. 2 Italian, 2 German and 1 Greek. So the matter is not only in Germany and supposedly "goodies" for it, companies from different countries wanted to review the price there and reviewed it.
          1. Russ69
            Russ69 21 September 2013 00: 14 New
            +1
            Quote: Corneli
            but the point is that in the next year 2012 Gazprom lost a bunch of dough to 5 companies. 2 Italian, 2 German and 1 Greek.

            All the alleged losses are based on the new European Gas Charter, the meaning of which between the supplier and the buyer is to put in a cool intermediary, that is, your beloved (EU). Moreover, some such ingenious companies have lost contracts for the sale of Russian gas on the spot market, where its price is not 300 -500 bucks, and the whole 1000. But the disputes of business entities in the current economy are a completely trivial event.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 21 September 2013 00: 23 New
              +2
              Quote: Russ69
              All the alleged losses are based on the new European Gas Charter, the meaning of which between the supplier and the buyer is to put in a cool intermediary, that is, your beloved (EU). Moreover, some such ingenious companies have lost contracts for the sale of Russian gas on the spot market, where its price is not 300 -500 bucks, and the whole 1000. But the disputes of business entities in the current economy are a completely trivial event.

              It’s trivial, as long as it doesn’t reach Ukraine) But essentially a question for you ... Russia lost money on those processes? Or do you think that Gazprom defeated everyone (if so then with the numbers please)?
              1. Russ69
                Russ69 21 September 2013 00: 40 New
                +2
                Quote: Corneli
                It’s trivial, as long as it doesn’t reach Ukraine) But essentially a question for you ... Russia lost money on those processes? Or do you think that Gazprom defeated everyone (if so then with the numbers please)?

                All large companies, somewhere they lose, find somewhere. This is a common thing. Track the claims of the world giants, there payments and reach a billion. There is nothing terrible here. Russia and Ukraine also tried to butt in the arbitration court, but it seems they always agreed.
                1. Corneli
                  Corneli 21 September 2013 13: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: Russ69
                  All large companies, somewhere they lose, find somewhere. This is a common thing. Track the claims of the world giants, there payments and reach a billion. There is nothing terrible here. Russia and Ukraine also tried to butt in the arbitration court, but it seems they always agreed.

                  In my post above, I pointed out the loss of Gazprom - 4,25 billion for 2012 (this is about "and up to a billion" is out of 70 billion from the total sale. By the way, half the money that Ukraine paid for gas that year).
      5. I am a Russian
        I am a Russian 24 September 2013 10: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Corneli
        Quote: Setrac
        Secondly, ask your government why they agreed to such an agreement and what they received in return.

        We ask, the time will come, one is already sitting.


        On February 13, 2001, Tymoshenko was arrested ...

        Now is September 2013 and when will the time come to ask?

        Rather, cover up Yulia Tymoshenko’s insolvency.

        ... but we must pay tribute to you - on the forums you "sing" beautifully!
  • Tverichanka
    Tverichanka 20 September 2013 22: 38 New
    +2
    Quote: ikar2006
    . This is called simply. Trade war. And if Ukraine

    Cheese, sweets ... little things all this. But the participation of your armed forces units in exercises in Poland and Lithuania is impressive. Or do you think that such exercises are being conducted against North Korea? ... Something Russia has not been noticed in such games ...
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 20 September 2013 11: 13 New
    +2
    Quote: avt
    in former times, the volume of Ukrainian railcar exports to Russia reached 45-50 percent.
    By the way, about cars. I constantly see Ukrainian and Russian trains at the Simferopol station. The difference is just KILLING. What is the configuration, what is the state, what is the year of manufacture and design. And far from in favor of the Ukrainian ...
    1. ikar2006
      ikar2006 20 September 2013 15: 04 New
      +1
      You didn’t travel on the Murmansk-Simferopol train. No difference.
  • Altona
    Altona 20 September 2013 09: 59 New
    +7
    It seems that everyone in the USSR was mainly from peasants, so what does it take them all over again to the gentry? Not ate something in due time? Or Ukraine is always full of promises, but the laborers of the Germans?
  • Djozz
    Djozz 20 September 2013 10: 37 New
    +1
    Well, of course, the mosquito farted, Russia is to blame! Broad lad.
  • Stas1
    Stas1 20 September 2013 10: 43 New
    +9
    In 1991, a split of a single people was masterfully made. The fifth column, which conducted it, is currently the ruler of the divided peoples in the second generation, and somewhere in the third. None of them will give their property (money, assets, etc.) captured during the collapse of the USSR without resistance. The ideologists of stupefying and teaching young people to consume and possess money are worked out ideally. And there are no places in the head for people who grew up on such an ideology for the concept of “brotherly people” or “united people”.
    And further. As a cadet at a military school in 1988-1992, he personally felt the effect of the fifth column on the brains of people (I understand this now). We studied together with children from several cities of Ukraine. s (sorry), there were six people in the group. Since 1990, since the holidays they began to come with yellow-blue badges, we constantly had disputes about the fact that Ukraine will live independently in chocolate, that the USSR suppresses the identity of the Ukrainian, that Ukraine feeds the whole USSR, etc. (Naturally, those who considered themselves Russian proved the opposite). For me it was complete wildness. It almost came to fights. But why am I? If in the 90s, with the existing power of the state and special. structures such subversive brainwashing to split the people was carried out openly throughout Ukraine, then what kind of rapprochement between the two fraternal peoples can speak now? I see in the future only one scenario: Russia is putting things in order and becoming a real independent center of power in all respects, and then the rest of the Rus and Slavs will spiritually join Russia (perhaps not without military assistance from the Russian Federation, because it is “democratically” painted in the colors of the rainbow the world will not go anywhere, and its task is to prevent this. Something in the west will remain under the name of Ukraine.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 20 September 2013 14: 44 New
      +4
      Quote: Stas1
      In 1991, a split of a single people was masterfully made.

      the split was made in 1917, it was then that the "republics" were formed, thus laying the foundations for a future divorce.
  • Sochi
    Sochi 20 September 2013 10: 44 New
    +9
    Forward Ukraine !!! You really wanted to become independent ... I can congratulate you, now you are independent even from yourself, Brussels will decide everything for you. They extended a hand of friendship and help to you, and you saw imperial ways in this ... they screamed that Russia had spread rot for 300 years, now you will definitely know what it means to be a colony even of pre-empire. I wish you success in matters of impoverishment and degeneration - this is your choice !!! Sincerely, the genetic maloros in hell knows what generation (Ukrainian).
    1. xan
      xan 20 September 2013 21: 55 New
      +2
      I would like to add
      Honduras, GDP per capita of 3 US dollars per year (185)
      Ukraine, per capita GDP of 3 US dollars per year (877)
      Russia, GDP per capita of $ 14 per year (918)
      The figures are taken in nominal, and not at purchasing power parity.
      Well, lads, 22 years of independence - it’s very close to Honduras, and to Russia like cancer to China.
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 20 September 2013 23: 07 New
        0
        Quote: xan
        Well, lads,

        Well, lads? Something you were not very upset when in the 90s, the standard of living in Russia was three times lower than in Ukraine, when Russia washed her face with blood in Chechnya, when Russia did not pay pensions to the elderly for half a year and they really starving ..... Where was your fraternal compassion and at least moral support? ... And now, when our standard of living is several times higher than yours, when we, albeit slowly, but rise, when the voice of Russia began to listen to the world , the claims went right away, and the gas was expensive and the Russians betrayed us .... Have a conscience !!!!! Now you will tell Europe how guilty it is that you have dumb fat.
        1. Kars
          Kars 20 September 2013 23: 14 New
          +3
          Quote: Tverichanka
          when in the 90's the standard of living in Russia was three times lower than in Ukraine,

          Of course, I’m glad of it --- just I don’t remember such a thing. But I remember how honey and sunflower oil were brought to Moscow.
          Quote: Tverichanka
          claims immediately went, and the gas is expensive and the Russians betrayed us .... Have a conscience !!!!

          Well, gas is really expensive, but what about betrayed - here is from those who shout that they betrayed, ask them from them, and not generalize.
        2. xan
          xan 21 September 2013 00: 00 New
          -2
          Quote: Tverichanka
          Where was your fraternal compassion and at least moral support?

          I do not need compassion and support. I live in Russia. We will do everything ourselves and pay for everything. And there will not be enough dough - so Moscow was not built right away either.
        3. Korben
          Korben 21 September 2013 13: 43 New
          +1
          You are very nervous and your conclusions are hasty! Calm down! A hackneyed topic with fat is a cheap example, it is no longer in fashion!
      2. Corneli
        Corneli 21 September 2013 00: 11 New
        +3
        Quote: xan
        Russia, GDP per capita of $ 14 per year (918)

        And why didn’t they mention the ruined:
        28. Spain -29 (there seems to be a crisis there)
        29. Cyprus - 26 (who did Russia give money to?) You are on the 389th place in the same list)
        37. Greece - 22 (well, I think everyone knows about the Greeks and their ruin)
        And you are not very hurt that the Baltic countries, in which there is absolutely nothing, are currently in the EU Gaster's toilet bowls wash next to you with the same GDP.?
        44 - Estonia
        49 - Lithuania
        50 - Latvia
        Maybe the wrong GDP was chosen for a normal comparison, lost with Honduras)
        1. xan
          xan 21 September 2013 10: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Corneli
          Maybe the wrong GDP was chosen for a normal comparison, lost with Honduras)

          In addition to Honduras, Ukraine can also be compared with Guatemala, with El Salvador - already lagging behind.
          Everyone remembers the Fomenko joke "How shitty in Honduras, only Guatemala knows"
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 21 September 2013 12: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: Corneli
          And why didn’t they mention the ruined:

          I’ll draw your attention to the fact that this table is for 2012.
          Quote: Corneli
          44 - Estonia
          49 - Lithuania
          50 - Latvia

          These countries within the USSR lived an order of magnitude richer than the central regions of Russia, at the moment at the level with Russia, but not yet an evening.
          1. Korben
            Korben 21 September 2013 13: 46 New
            0
            Do not make excuses! Before you throw numbers, you need to think!
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 21 September 2013 15: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Korben
              Do not make excuses! Before you throw numbers, you need to think!

              43 Russia 23,549 2012
              Here are the numbers, not your 14 918.
      3. Korben
        Korben 21 September 2013 13: 40 New
        +1
        Well done! My congratulations! But the difference in living standards, I do not observe!
  • major071
    major071 20 September 2013 10: 46 New
    +9
    Already a hackneyed topic. Every day there are new articles with different names, but similar in topic. Ukraine is moving away from Russia, Ukraine is integrating into the EU, etc. etc. Well, Ukraine enters der.mo (sorry to the EU), apparently everything suits them. Well, here we shout slogans for friendship forever. Yes, cf. Yanukovych and his associates wanted our opinion and that of his people. And the Ukrainian people are silent, probably waiting for a BIG-UU-SUE candy from the west. Well, how to get it - let it suck! IMHO.
    1. Korben
      Korben 20 September 2013 21: 52 New
      0
      I appeal to you, great wit! Yes, in Ukraine no one asks people, however, like you! And they will not ask! The costs of post-Soviet democracy! Forgive us for this!
      One question, why are you ots ... those from the leader of his country, who admits the dominance of Caucasians and Asians, crazy corruption, and more!
      On the issue of domestic and foreign policy of our states, one can philosophize for a long time and without success!
      I ask you and other wits about one thing - do not treat others with a sense of chauvinism and with insults! Look not convincing and low!
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 20 September 2013 23: 46 New
        +5
        Quote: Korben
        One question, why are you ots ... those from the leader of his country, who admits the dominance of Caucasians and Asians, crazy corruption, and more!

        Firstly, the Caucasus is Russia. Let not even the best part.
        Secondly, with regards to the Asians, it didn’t last long, soon both the passport and other charms, and this, unfortunately, will affect Ukraine.
        Thirdly, corruption in Ukraine, well, no less.
        1. Korben
          Korben 21 September 2013 12: 42 New
          +2
          I completely agree with you! I explained to the person above that it is not necessary to wit, if the log itself is in the eye! Why do some here treat Ukraine and Ukrainians with contempt? Speak and scold politicians, specific individuals! Why summarize and insult the people? This is not respectful! We do not deserve it!
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 21 September 2013 11: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Korben
        One question, why are you ots ... those from the leader of his country, who admits the dominance of Caucasians and Asians, crazy corruption, and more!
        Probably because the mentality is similar. Why is everything the same in Ukraine, only in a more grotesque form with respect to the zapadents (who, by the way, kiss the gums with the same Caucasians)? Well, as for corruption in all levels of government, it’s not for Ukrainians to talk about it ... request
        1. Korben
          Korben 21 September 2013 12: 47 New
          +1
          Corruption is colossal! This is our legacy, unfortunately! I am from the east of Ukraine! We don’t like Caucasians, and we don’t have them here, practically! And if there is, they have no voice! Many Russians come to us, normal relations! Just do not divide them into citizens of another country!
          I do not understand so many insults against us!
  • Alligator_S
    Alligator_S 20 September 2013 10: 51 New
    +5
    It is a pity, of course, that they forgot to ask the opinion of the people. Look, our communists tried to collect votes in support of a referendum on joining the CU, so the government forbade it to do so. What can I say? Here it is democracy in action ... The opinion of the people, robbed by a bureaucratic-oligarchic bloodsucker called Ukraine, does not interest them, and even frightens them. Of course, Russia itself is partly to blame for what we now have in fact. After all, it was Russia that nurtured our oligarchs. Cheap oil, cheap gas, etc. Despite the fact that almost all Ukrainian presidents were ardent Russophobes, and the rest were latent Russophobes. None of them was going to cooperate with Russia on a mutually beneficial basis. They believed that Russia owed them, and we will scam it in the "tame" newspaper and on television, accusing them of Great Russian chauvinism. The whole difference between Russia and Ukraine is that Russia has already begun liberation from Anglo-Saxon slavery, and we are sitting in full G. And no matter how hard we try and whoever we choose - but still there. You see how Yanukovych quickly changed his colors after the election. It was the same with Kui. I'm afraid it will be so with the following.

    And as for reducing gas consumption and, by the way, electricity, this is not due to savings, but due to the stoppage of industry. Only the industry that is wholly owned by our oligarchs is working. All the rest are crushed by taxes, checks and raiding. Here is such an economy in Ukrainian.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 20 September 2013 11: 03 New
    +4
    I think that you do not need to exaggerate. There is a normal “grinding” of the economies of the two states in the conditions of market and competition. The concept of "fraternal countries" (and Russia and Ukraine are and will always be fraternal countries) cannot conceal or eliminate competition in international trade. Nothing wrong with that. This is normal pragmatic practice. Everyone seeks benefits in their economic activities. The market is the market. Ukraine will produce shale gas, let Russia seek new markets for its gas. This is a normal competition! So that there is no removal from each other of Russia and Ukraine! There are simply new conditions for self-management!
    1. Korben
      Korben 20 September 2013 21: 33 New
      +1
      Sound words!
      All this fuss about the CU and the EU comes down to one thing - the market! Pure economy!
  • aud13
    aud13 20 September 2013 11: 03 New
    +6
    Quote: ikar2006
    And frankly, gas problems have already been reached. Well, tell me, brothers, the Russians why, by brotherhood, Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per tkub. on the border of Ukraine and Russia, and Ukraine buys Russian gas from Germany at $ 390 / t. and this is taking into account the fact that gas passed to Germany through Ukraine 1200 km. Poland 600 km. came back from Germany through Poland 600 km. and costs $ 140 / per tkub. cheaper. This is called a brotherly country.

    Russia supplied gas to Ukraine in the 90s at a preferential price, in my opinion somewhere at 50 dollars. per tkub. So what?
    Somehow this affected the attitude of Ukraine towards Russia for the better.
    For some reason, it seems to me that in Ukraine politicians believe that Russia is simply obliged to sell gas to Ukraine at a reduced price, to buy goods from it at the prices at which it will tell them to the detriment of its producers. Why for?
    You say that Russia does not sell gas cheaply, and who sells it cheap?
    Germany? But this is not her gas, some period of time will pass and Gazprom will probably close this loophole when signing a new agreement.
    The time for cheap gas is over. Moreover, there is such information that current gas supplies from Germany is a temporary phenomenon, the purpose of which is to pit Russia and Ukraine.
    Even in Russia, its price is growing very quickly. For some reason, it seems that Ukraine’s gas self-sufficiency projects are like cranes in the sky, and the market for many Ukrainian goods will close - that's for sure.
    It’s a pity, they served in the army together with the Ukrainians - there were good lads, now we will find ourselves on opposite sides of the border.
    1. xan
      xan 21 September 2013 00: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: aud13
      Russia supplied gas to Ukraine in the 90s at a preferential price, in my opinion somewhere at 50 dollars. per tkub. So what?
      Somehow this affected the attitude of Ukraine towards Russia for the better.

      Gentlemen, Ukrainians, will someone answer this question or will you again screech about the evil Russians?
      Cheap gas open markets - Russian bad, expensive gas closed markets - Russian bad, maybe it's not about gas and not about sweets and cheese?
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 21 September 2013 00: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: xan
        Gentlemen, Ukrainians, will someone answer this question or will you again screech about the evil Russians?
        Cheap gas open markets - Russian bad, expensive gas closed markets - Russian bad, maybe it's not about gas and not about sweets and cheese?

        Let me guess .. the case in the evil and bad Ukrainians? fellow
        But in fact, Yushchenko was a famine, NATO, the EU, gas wars, the Russian language, a base in the Black Sea Fleet, and much more.
        Yanyk came, removed NATO, the Holodomor, corrected the status of the language, extended the lease of the base to infinity (mind you, in spite of all the current ones, you don’t even stutter that he would revise the lease agreement, but YUSCH would have shouted about the current)) and quietly begs for a more normal gas price.
        And he did all this in the very first year of the presidency, but what did Russia do in return? Said "gut waldemar, gut"? Work next? (OH GDP invited to the TS !!! I probably did a favor, big)
        And they’re surprised at the Kremlin, but what is it that they want to exchange us for such cool people in the EU? (((
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 21 September 2013 11: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: Corneli
          Let me guess .. the case in the evil and bad Ukrainians?

          In every nation there are "bad guys", but the point is not that, but the fact that "fucking rulers" ...
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 21 September 2013 00: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: xan
        Cheap gas open markets
        By the way, then, if anyone remembers, it was also VERY expensive for gas. This is now the price that the gift is remembered, and then the accusers could not be appeased ...
  • Djozz
    Djozz 20 September 2013 11: 05 New
    +2
    For some reason, everyone thinks that Russia owes everything to them as "land to the collective farm," and every shelupon trying to put its own device on us will not work, to hell with you! DARK!
    1. Korben
      Korben 20 September 2013 22: 00 New
      +4
      I am a representative of sheluponi, as you put it! You are wrong! I respect the state and citizens of Russia! I didn’t lay down any device and am not going to lay down! I will say more, I’m very upset by the current situation and the amount of interethnic negative on this site!
      This is my little attempt to convince you! )))
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 20 September 2013 23: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: Djozz
      Fuck you all over the face! DARK!
      Djozz, do not confuse power and people in Ukraine. People chose Janek, who promised a lot of things, but did everything differently.
  • nikcris
    nikcris 20 September 2013 11: 22 New
    +3
    Quote: ikar2006
    Why do you citizens of Russia so hate Ukraine. Speaking of brother-in-law, Europe or a geyropa (by the way, we also have a geyropa). And frankly, the gas problems have already been reached. Well, tell me, brothers, the Russians why, by brotherhood, Russia sells gas to Ukraine at $ 530 / per tkub. on the border of Ukraine and Russia, and Ukraine buys Russian gas from Germany at $ 390 / t. and this is taking into account the fact that gas passed to Germany through Ukraine 1200 km. Poland 600 km. came back from Germany through Poland 600 km. and costs $ 140 / per tkub. cheaper. This is called a brotherly country. And as for the Krukovka Car Building Plant, it has long been half owned by Russian investors. So chop the branch on which you sit. Yes, and many other questions actually. Cheese, sweets and so on and so forth. This is called simply. Trade war. And if Ukraine introduced any barriers to Russian goods, then only as a response. It is unfortunate that many of us who were born in one big country now, for the sake of politicians, have already begun to forget the great country that we built, defended, adored.

    With gas it’s not like with oil - you won’t pour it into the tanker and you won’t put it at the anchorage. And you can’t cover the well - then the return will fall. This is, for simplicity (although tense), as with water in the reservoirs of hydroelectric power plants on flat rivers - in the spring there is nothing to do, in the fall and winter the capacities are idle due to lack of water. Therefore, it was invented "take or pay."
    Gas is not pumped to Germany to return back to Ukraine. The Germans are selling excess limits today. They can sell them at 390, 290, 190, etc. - all the same, it is more profitable for them than paying fines for the shortfall to Gazprom. Well, it's like in the market when the tomatoes begin to rot)))
    But cold and tomatoes, ugh !, come gas becomes more popular. You can buy gas from Germany even then, but the market will react instantly and the price of 500 will seem to you happiness. In frosts, the Germans themselves often lack gas.
    To compensate for this winter-summer imbalance, Ukraine has a network of underground storage facilities. In summer, they are filled with surpluses; in winter, shortages are replenished from them. This year, Ukraine went to download to storage. This is surprising. After all, even a gypsy sells a fur coat only with the first sun, but not in the fall.
    So let's take a look, as they say.
    PS And do not talk about fraternity. Separate the tobacco !!!
  • Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 20 September 2013 11: 25 New
    +2
    We vote for the entry of Ukraine into the CU !!!
    referendum2013.in.ua
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 20 September 2013 11: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: Strezhevchanin
      We vote for the entry of Ukraine into the CU !!!
      referendum2013.in.ua

      I tried it. Voted. Transferred to the entrance of two sites to choose from (on which there are my accounts) - Odnoklassniki and Facebook. I tried on Odnoklassniki, the result is "account not found." I stuck on Facebook, there - even funnier:
      Loginza wants to have access to your information: open profile, list of friends, email address mail, date of birth, hometown, city, website and identity description.
      Maybe I still have the keys to the entrance door to the SBU? wink
      1. Strezhevchanin
        Strezhevchanin 20 September 2013 14: 47 New
        0
        There, it seems, after he throws it back to vote again, and he says nifiga you have already voted, so sho like YES. hi
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 20 September 2013 23: 26 New
          0
          Quote: Strezhevchanin
          Click to vote again, and he says nifiga you already voted, so sho like YES.
          That's exactly what "kind of." Since the vote counter remains at the same figure ... request
  • Algor73
    Algor73 20 September 2013 11: 30 New
    +2
    No matter how regrettable it sounds, but the division between our peoples (!) Has passed. You read the comments. How much hatred, bile in relation to Ukraine. And the article is correct, without Tsynism, sarcasm. And the section was promoted not only by our governments, but also by ourselves, by printing such, frankly, frank in terms of hatred and commentary, and articles. Read over the past year the media (no matter what) about the relations between Ukraine and Russia (no matter what), find at least one positive article. Everywhere mutual accusations. And if on the part of Ukraine the accusations are verbal, or retaliatory, then on the part of Russia it is quite tangible. Since when has the Baltic states become more friendly for Russia (with regard to the construction of wagons) than Ukraine? And what? And you say that Ukrainians are to blame. Governments fueled this war, and ordinary citizens plant branches with their comments. Russia owes nothing to anyone. But Ukraine is a state. Maybe in some way it’s not good, but independent, and it must also be respected.
    1. etrusk
      etrusk 20 September 2013 11: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Algor73
      No matter how regrettable it sounds, but the division between our peoples (!) Has passed. You read the comments. How much hatred, bile in relation to Ukraine. And the article is correct, without Tsynism, sarcasm. And the section was promoted not only by our governments, but also by ourselves, by printing such, frankly, frank in terms of hatred and commentary, and articles. Read over the past year the media (no matter what) about the relations between Ukraine and Russia (no matter what), find at least one positive article. Everywhere mutual accusations. And if on the part of Ukraine the accusations are verbal, or retaliatory, then on the part of Russia it is quite tangible. Since when has the Baltic states become more friendly for Russia (with regard to the construction of wagons) than Ukraine? And what? And you say that Ukrainians are to blame. Governments fueled this war, and ordinary citizens plant branches with their comments. Russia owes nothing to anyone. But Ukraine is a state. Maybe in some way it’s not good, but independent, and it must also be respected.

      You forget that in Russia there is also a fifth column, in the same government, which is beneficial for discord between one people.
    2. nikcris
      nikcris 20 September 2013 11: 45 New
      +1
      What kind of hatred are you talking about? Where did you manage to make out? I’ll even quote you: “Since when did the Baltic states become more friendly (with regard to the construction of wagons) for Russia than Ukraine?” So this is not friendship - this is economics.
      PS I have the impression that a strange nostalgia took over the Ukrainians. Like in winter, a former vacationer about a summer vacation in a sanatorium by the sea.
    3. avt
      avt 20 September 2013 12: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: Algor73
      Governments fueled this war, and ordinary citizens plant branches with their comments.

      Have governments crashed from oak? Well, okay, a natural disaster. Well, what about the Maidan with Yushchenko and Yulia - the governments too, and the Kremlin, in particular, prepared for it?
      Quote: Algor73
      Russia owes nothing to anyone.

      Well, at least thanks to you, but for the requirements put forward, I strongly doubt something.
      Quote: Algor73
      But Ukraine is a state. Maybe in some way it’s not good, but independent, and it must also be respected.

      Do you think that by adopting a constitution, sewing a flag and declaring independence, is that all? laughing Is that all for you, well, at least Russia, do you have to? They do not reckon with states as tricky presentations in the style of conversations about the Imperial infringement of the neoplasm. Independence and respect are proved by deeds, not verbiage, if they decided that Ukraine is not Russia, there’s nothing to take, “brotherly pity.”
      Quote: etrusk
      You forget that in Russia there is also a fifth column, in the same government, which is beneficial for discord between one people.

      I agree, there are quite a few. But then what to say about Ukraine, where in general they don’t consider themselves to be just one people, and this has been elevated to the fundamental ideology of the state and has already grown up a new generation brought up on this ideology, but it’s great to include when it’s fall ,,, the younger brother "? And the whole point of inclusion is that the older brother wouldn’t go far beyond the Arctic Circle, but let the gas leave in Ukraine. And, even pay for the sweets before going.
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 20 September 2013 23: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: avt
        .Also, let him pay for sweets before going.

        Yes, the dream is visible with a naked eye-run to run to the EU, but let Russia pay for this holiday! Oh, I'm afraid that I wouldn’t have to cry .... There’s an old joke - "Guys, where are you going? ---" To the collective farm (EU) "-" Why do you need a dog? "-" Eat leftovers "....." Guys, where are you from? "----" Yes, from the collective farm (EU) "----" And where is the dog? "_----" Ate "....
    4. Russ69
      Russ69 20 September 2013 23: 33 New
      +3
      Quote: Algor73
      No matter how regrettable it sounds, but the division between our peoples (!) Has passed. You read the comments. How much hatred, bile in relation to Ukraine.

      In principle, Ukraine itself has no questions. All statements concern not the people, but the government. Well, a bunch of Bandera.
  • etrusk
    etrusk 20 September 2013 11: 49 New
    +2
    Quote: Misantrop
    Quote: Strezhevchanin
    We vote for the entry of Ukraine into the CU !!!
    referendum2013.in.ua

    I tried it. Voted. Transferred to the entrance of two sites to choose from (on which there are my accounts) - Odnoklassniki and Facebook. I tried on Odnoklassniki, the result is "account not found." I stuck on Facebook, there - even funnier:
    Loginza wants to have access to your information: open profile, list of friends, email address mail, date of birth, hometown, city, website and identity description.
    Maybe I still have the keys to the entrance door to the SBU? wink

    laughing Exactly for the same reason he did not vote.
    1. Strezhevchanin
      Strezhevchanin 20 September 2013 14: 52 New
      +3
      I don’t know, it turned out somehowrequest
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 20 September 2013 11: 50 New
    +4
    The point here is not even economic wars. For 22 years, Ukraine has been systematically discrediting both Russia and the Russian people. Russia and the Russian people are accused of occupying Ukraine in 1919, of the "famine" of 1932-33, with the monstrous figures of deceased Ukrainians being called up to 15 million (the entire population of then-Ukraine was 35,6 million). It turns out that for some year Ukraine lost almost half of its population? Moreover, according to the 1939 census, more than 41 million people lived in Ukraine. It is clear that the numbers of those who died of starvation in 1932-33 in Ukraine were taken from the ceiling, calculated for the uneducated layman, who are the majority of young people in Ukraine. And which is typical, most Ukrainians believe this, because they cite these numbers on the Internet. Even the annexation of western Ukraine in 1939, which had previously been under the occupation of Poland, was blamed on Russia. They say that Russia began repression there, destroyed economic ties with Poland, thereby destroying the industry of western Ukraine. It was as if some industry existed there and Poland had not been occupied by Germany at that time. By the way, the outbreak of World War II is also blamed on Russia and the Russian people, just as Stalin is put on a par with Hitler. Russia is also accused of destroying the Ukrainian language and culture and is directly called the occupier of Ukraine. Not later than yesterday I read about this article by People’s Deputy of Ukraine Farion on the pages of the Ukrainian Pravda online publication on blogs. For fun, read. There are still many similar accusations, one more absurd than the other, for example, that under the USSR, Ukrainians were not allowed to go, as if half the commanders of the Red Army were not Ukrainians and out of the seven leaders of the USSR, three were not Ukrainians. All these statements in the Ukrainian media have only been encouraged by the Ukrainian authorities for 22 years, and regardless of color, whether they are orange, liberals, etc. All of the above allows us to conclude that Russophobia is elevated to the rank of state policy in Ukraine and is an integral element in modern Ukraine.
  • KOH
    KOH 20 September 2013 11: 56 New
    +2
    Quote: Misantrop
    Quote: domokl
    Something I do not see protests in Ukraine about joining the FTZ.

    The day before yesterday in Simferopol on Kirov Ave. there was a hefty rally just about this. Did not see? And you will not see, the silence in this regard in the media is simply a cemetery. And this meeting was far from the only one. And this despite the fact that it was nowhere to be reported ANYWHERE (all ads are destroyed instantly)


    How much they will break our peoples, rainbow creatures ...
  • Andrew-88
    Andrew-88 20 September 2013 12: 52 New
    +9
    Good day to all !!!
    It is sad that the squabble is gaining momentum between the Slavs. After all, basically a card is played out nationalism. Russians offend Ukrainians !!! Russians offend Belarusians !!! When you hear this, the will, not the will, gives the impression that we are different nations. Sometimes someone says that we are fraternal peoples. But just brotherly... And that disconnects us! The population that lives in the territory limited by borders The Republic of Belarus, Ukraine and part of Russia is one nation - SLAVS!!! These states can be divided into smaller ones and the inhabitants of these states will call themselves as anyone else. But what flows in our veins makes us brothers. After all, the Slavs are characterized by one genotype - the haplogroup R1a.
    Being abroad and having heard the Native (Belarusian, Russian and Ukrainian) speech, for some reason people always say: Oooh !!! Brothers SLAVES !!!
    Remember the guys: A brother may be wrong, but from this he does not cease to be a brother !!!
    With love from the sunny Republic of Belarus fellow
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 20 September 2013 18: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Andrew-88
      With love from the sunny Republic of Belarus fellow

      And we have rain here ( drinks
  • major071
    major071 20 September 2013 13: 04 New
    10
    Here is a quote from the article "The time of Ukraine came out":
    It seems that Putin understands that by allowing Ukraine to associate with the EU, the party should not be considered lost. Again, remember Kyrgyzstan or Georgia. It is clearly seen here that even after “taking a walk in the wild”, all the same, the republics return, but with a more firm decision to stay with Russia. As one old plumber used to say, in order to understand how much worse chocolate is der.mo, it is not necessary to eat chocolate, just climb into the der.mo. Then everything becomes obvious.
    http://contrpost.com/ru/78-2013-05-10-13-45-19/3342-vremya-ukrainy-vyshlo
    1. piterkras
      piterkras 20 September 2013 14: 42 New
      +1
      First, let Georgia pay off its debt to the United States ...
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 20 September 2013 13: 19 New
    0
    As usual, Ukraine wants to snatch everywhere, even when they have directly explained either-or. When it’s already shared.
  • piterkras
    piterkras 20 September 2013 14: 39 New
    +2
    Let them go to the EU. Anyway, Russia is weaker than the EU. But the EU will once again be enriched in the Ukrainians, as in the first years of the collapse of the USSR.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Ihrek
    Ihrek 20 September 2013 14: 43 New
    +4
    you just have to be a strong country and others will stretch themselves and you won’t have to persuade
  • Agent 008
    Agent 008 20 September 2013 14: 50 New
    +3
    All this is necessary for Ukrainian POLITICIANS to raise their rotten rating ... After all, before the PEOPLES of Russia and Ukraine really were like brothers, and now in Ukraine there is Zombie of the young generation - which is not their way with Russia ... And this is very sad ... And these Ukrainian politicians with their rotten “liver” are who our enemies are!
  • amp
    amp 20 September 2013 15: 14 New
    0
    With Ukraine, we will act this way: first, we will wait until the Ukrainian economy collapses, then the means of Russian propaganda will convince Ukrainians that their European choice is to blame. Then we will take Ukraine to the CU and CSTO.
    Another way is now impossible, since the vast majority of Ukrainians are now for integration with the EU.
    1. fon_Stierlitz
      fon_Stierlitz 20 September 2013 16: 03 New
      +2
      You are mistaken - if Ukraine defaults, then the howl will again rush towards Russia - they strangled / did not save / another option, they say, is the independent Ukrainian economy. It is now such statements no, no, yes, heard, and only in which case it will finally break through.
    2. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka 20 September 2013 23: 29 New
      0
      Quote: amp
      After which we take Ukraine to the CU and CSTO.

      And let's start building industry there again, yeah ... Well, the pipes! Let the “dead-dead” make their choice, no questions! But let the responsibility be responsible for this choice! And then the kindergarten turns out to be some kind of chesslovo. How Ukrainians use gingerbread cookies in one mug, and how to earn gingerbread cookies, so high-won mos .. they’ll swear the damned .... Schazzzzzzz ......
  • Goldkonstantin
    Goldkonstantin 20 September 2013 16: 27 New
    +5
    Good day to all! Well, firstly, those who hold the entire political elite of Ukraine in their hands do not give a damn about such trifles as the well-being of citizens and the country as a whole, the growth of GDP and the economy in general. The main thing for them is that the pockets they stuff with money stolen from the people never become thinner. The Eurasian Union will have to share, but in the Kingdom of blue blood, where supposedly democracy, nothing needs to be shared with anyone. Therefore, they are cocking a little what. With such an elite, why good, a split of the country on a territorial basis is ensured. The industrial Southeast is already suffocating under the pressure of Europe.
  • malikszh
    malikszh 20 September 2013 16: 41 New
    +2
    I think Ukraine took a step by extending the Black Sea Fleet base contract, and Russia needed to take a step by lowering gas prices. Then everything would be fine
    1. piterkras
      piterkras 20 September 2013 20: 55 New
      0
      Now they will live on the prices of oil and gas that Brussels will establish for them, and not on those that they themselves want. Even more Europeans will remove dough from fools than Russia.
      1. Kars
        Kars 20 September 2013 21: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: piterkras
        Now they’ll live on the prices of oil and gas that Brussels sets,

        But Brussels sets oil and gas prices? Are you sure?
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 20 September 2013 23: 24 New
      -1
      Quote: malikszh
      I think Ukraine took a step by extending the Black Sea Fleet base contract, and Russia needed to take a step by lowering gas prices. Then everything would be fine

      So, then they gave a discount of 30%.
  • Agent 008
    Agent 008 20 September 2013 16: 58 New
    +1
    I see: rapid breathing, redness of the skin, voluptuous movements, - Ukraine is slowly entering Europe ...! Full orgasm!
    1. piterkras
      piterkras 20 September 2013 20: 56 New
      -1
      Glad to show Russia a cookie, you can and should get only pleasure from Europeans)))) ...
  • Walking
    Walking 20 September 2013 17: 14 New
    +1
    Well, of course, Ukrainians are always Russian to blame.
  • andru_007
    andru_007 20 September 2013 18: 05 New
    +3
    We wanted to eat here ...
    Yanik shouted about rapprochement with Russia, and as always we were ... bali. Power is a sweet feeling, repaints people. I recall a cartoon from childhood, as a boy killed a dragon and himself became a dragon (almost became). So in politics in Ukraine, every candidate advocates rapprochement (Yushchenko’s exception, but this is a separate conversation), but after receiving the support of the people, everyone becomes independent ... bastard ...
  • atalef
    atalef 20 September 2013 18: 21 New
    +3
    He noted that the disadvantageous agreement forces the Ukrainian government not only to seek new alternatives in the supply of blue fuel, but also to increase its own production at an accelerated pace. By and large, it can be said that the Ukrainian prime minister accused the Russian government of shortsightedness, because obtaining unilateral benefits for a short time cannot serve as a guarantee of long-term bilateral relations

    In general, as they say) Sheep can be sheared for a long time, but peel the skin only once request
  • andru_007
    andru_007 20 September 2013 19: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: Corneli
    Yanyk has done enough, given the circumstances, to fulfill this promise

    the yanyk did nothing fateful or crucial (with the exception of rewriting the goods not yet stolen to his son and bringing power to the regions of the Donetsk brotherhood from the 90s) ... And the achievements you listed above are just flirting with the electorate (a bone thrown to the people) and the Kremlin. Yanyk continues the policy of the essence of which is to fit his buttocks on two chairs (affectionate tilya two uterus sosse) ...
    I understand the Kremlin, the GDP is pragmatic (and worthy of respect for this) the games are over; if you want independence, eat. I fully support him (although I live in Ukraine). Eelania type and eat fish and x .. sit down no longer ride.
    Z.Y. I think pulling Ukraine into Europe will ruin the country, maybe we are present in the agony of a misunderstanding called Ukraine ....
    1. Stalinets
      Stalinets 24 September 2013 03: 54 New
      0
      All that you can thank him for is that he stopped openly quarreling Russia and Ukraine. What Grigyan - Kapitelman (Tymoshenko) and Shyla Yushchenko actively engaged in with the awl shaved Yushchenko. By the conscience of which is the life of killed Russian soldiers in Georgia. yes
  • archi.sailor
    archi.sailor 20 September 2013 21: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: Misantrop
    Quote: avt
    in former times, the volume of Ukrainian railcar exports to Russia reached 45-50 percent.
    By the way, about cars. I constantly see Ukrainian and Russian trains at the Simferopol station. The difference is just KILLING. What is the configuration, what is the state, what is the year of manufacture and design. And far from in favor of the Ukrainian ...
    I support relatives every year from the north to Sevastopol and even across Ukraine. and the difference is so visible
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 21 September 2013 01: 28 New
      +3
      On September 6, he left Simferopol on 30 train to Moscow. I received the train as I understood to mock the Russians for 15 minutes before boarding, although all the Ukrainian trains served as expected for 40. I didn’t see the train, but there are ambulances going to Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov and Donetsk like Hyundai, even before Kharkov our ambulance was slowed down, they missed Kharkov. In general, I don’t even know what and how to speak, I HAD all these dances. I myself was born in Lisichansk, but my parents and relatives are from Russia and I lived in Ukraine and in Russia will be equal, or rather in the USSR, now willow in Russia and parents in Ukraine and we often travel with family and to them and relax at sea in Ukraine and my children don’t understand the difference between us, the youngest son even tries to read Ukrainian asks for translation. My children don’t even understand what they want to make us different and quarrel, because there in Ukraine they have two cousins, and those in Russia have two. How much can you fight with each other? After all, I took my family to the Crimea not only from the sea, we went on many excursions and the history of Crimea is far from in Ukraine’s favor but somehow everything is balanced there so far. Gaz worries you it’s a pod, because it’s in price and not cheap for us, so don’t protect the interests of your thieves-oligarchs (as well as our thieves are trying to tear loot on us), it will be expensive for the people.
      If you are interested, then we are trying to push through a social energy package, according to which, we, ordinary people will have to pay part of the electricity consumption for enterprises and businessmen.
      Association with the EU does not give you the right to be a member of the EU, but I agree and Russia's policy is far from perfect if you would like to buy your oligarchs long ago.
      You will have to suffer for ordinary people in all this.
      It all depends on us. Well, I don’t bring hatred towards Ukraine in my Russian children, all the more they are there and they like the more they hate Asians, and seeing how they and their children behave here in Russia. I have been talking and telling Russia not workers liked to get Asians, in 90x itself, they slowed down in the subway more often than now.
      In general, let's stop the feud and raise children in harmony and friendship, and then sooner or later we will return to where we all came from. hi
      1. Stalinets
        Stalinets 24 September 2013 03: 51 New
        0
        good Keep it up !!!!!!!!!! good
  • uizik
    uizik 20 September 2013 22: 30 New
    +2
    You watch the television of Ukraine. And you see: From the side of the Western "matchmakers" - complete cool down, flattery and promises. They are assented to as one by our corrupt politicians. Rejoice. But not yet evening! Maybe everything will turn out sideways. And then: We were happy, having fun, woke up, wept, the history of the “campaign” for Western values ​​is repeated. They used to come back with a stake in a dup. And now with what?
  • Arkan
    Arkan 20 September 2013 22: 37 New
    +1
    Residents of the territory west of Smolensk themselves know what they need. We will not condemn them, much less regret their choice. Time to throw stones, time to collect stones.
  • castle
    castle 20 September 2013 23: 11 New
    0
    Russia, regain Crimea! Then the West will not need Ukraine.
  • malikszh
    malikszh 20 September 2013 23: 37 New
    0
    Quote: Russ69
    Quote: malikszh
    I think Ukraine took a step by extending the Black Sea Fleet base contract, and Russia needed to take a step by lowering gas prices. Then everything would be fine

    So, then they gave a discount of 30%.


    I don’t know, but the first time Yanukovych started well, but then something happened, maybe connected with Tyumashenei?
  • D_L
    D_L 21 September 2013 00: 28 New
    +1
    Wait and see!
  • anushin10ru
    anushin10ru 21 September 2013 01: 27 New
    +1
    Unfortunately, the current state of the Russian economy, its international political weight, no comparison to the weight of the USSR on the world stage, nor its military strength will allow our country to create, even in the distant future, some kind of union in the CIS. The departure of Ukraine into association with the EU is actually an irreversible process. Neither the Russian economy, nor its socio-political system will give Ukraine long-term prospects for national development. If the bourgeois-comprador system of modern Russia, leading to the slow degradation of all the foundations of our statehood, is not over, Russia will face enormous challenges in the medium term. We will not be up to Ukraine.
    1. Stalinets
      Stalinets 24 September 2013 03: 50 New
      -1
      I am surprised that this comment has not been deleted .... good
  • motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 21 September 2013 10: 06 New
    +8
    About gas.
    To understand the point, I will explain the pricing system, as I see you are not in the know. They wrote above that the first serious price increase was with Yushchenko. Just think, he refused the cheap price, and received more. Why's that? Where is the logic? And the logic is that the aforementioned Yushchenko wanted a percentage of the price. But SOMETHING said: in order for you to roll back, you need to change the contract, because at that price (in the old) this money has nowhere to take. Therefore, after the "gas winter war", and in fact the cover operation, the price was raised and Yushchenko went the money. But he rejoiced early, for the cunning lady Yu took away his powers and also wanted money from gas. Then this SOMETHING told her too, as well as her predecessor. But Julia, understanding the principles, made the correct (for herself) conclusion: in order for no one else to be able to deprive her of her (sorry for the tautology) share, you must sign a contract at the highest possible price! Then, since the price always goes up, for a long time, other people will not be able to change the contract (much higher), so even now, sitting in the colony, she regularly receives her share. Everything is brilliantly simple, because Yanek is angry at her, she earns him in spite of and believe me, a lot.
    About hostility.
    A terrible thing happened, I already live in Kiev since 1987, although the citizenship of the Russian Federation, children are citizens of Ukraine, two mother-in-law, a bunch of friends, Mom is in Tver, so I’m both here and there at home, so I declare with all responsibility, as if who He didn’t say that they disconnected us, using all available means, from historical interpretations to exploitation, the most scanty feeling, such as the trouble is that the cow was dead, but that the neighbor remained alive. There are a lot of examples at the household level, I don’t want to give a lot, but there is still no antagonism, but there is no opposition to separation in the mass. Someone wrote above that they do not raise children in hatred of Ukraine, and I have a friend, a colonel, a former special forces soldier, who came from near Kharkov, by the way the son of a Hero of the Soviet Union, admitted on a binge that he is raising his grandchildren (he is 60), in hatred for Russia, and he fought in Egypt, awarded, appreciate! Etc. etc. In general, I’m an optimist in life, but I clearly understand that Ukraine will not be allowed to go to Russia! And the people are already brainwashed, and this includes even my relatives through the wives. Discord will be played on any material, on any people, and if the hell with it, the Ukrainian leadership is not independent, then I have questions for the Russian, in any case, this is more than a serious matter and if the issue rests on gas, or rather its price, then you need to do something, if they get to Russia through Ukraine, it will cost more. But the art of politics is not to become a pose, but to have a strategic rather than tactical gain. In Syria, they are working seriously, but neglecting with Ukraine, one must understand that very serious forces are opposing it. The same Yanukovych is trying to somehow arrange the agreement with the EU, i.e. and he still can’t do this thing without looking at the people. So you can play, there’s not much time left, but you have to fight for it, these are our people, and not just scare, this is not politics. If the reduction in gas prices knocks the chair out from under the signatories, you need to do this, nothing, the crown will not fall, politics has not seen it. And do not be afraid to look like a skilled flexible politician, not a proud and tough older brother. As someone said that the soldiers didn’t sign anything that politicians signed, on the dusty ground with their blood (I can’t vouch for accuracy). I hope that no one experiences any illusions, no Russophobia, no Russophile, as soon as the West (let's say), they have the opportunity and confidence to defeat Russia, they will strike, and with the departure of Ukraine this opportunity increases. And this is all, for 100, or maybe less dollars of concessions, can be avoided. But who knows, maybe the Russian leadership in the subject?
  • Ivan Mechanic
    Ivan Mechanic 21 September 2013 13: 29 New
    -2
    The article lacks only one phrase: "Glory to the Heroes, yak for gilyak!" - The rest is an excellent Bandera trash in which they were guilty of all mortal sins and did not caress and sip and the Kiev regime is so white and fluffy that you just want to cry from tenderness. And it seems like no one was selling the technical documentation for the Bison and the experimental sample of the SU-27K to the Chinese, and it seemed like there was no Sashka Bely cutting our soldier’s head for the glory of Allah and there were no combat crews in Georgia who shot down the pilots who killed our pilots. In my opinion, the Ukrainian regime needs to prove to us that they are good and can be dealt with. Let them do something to prove it - for example, recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Then there will be another contract! In the meantime, we will be satisfied with the relocation of specialists as shipbuilders and aircraft in Russian design bureaus and factories! We have a lot of work; a few hands :-(.