Military Review

Association without nominations

39
EU promises Ukraine more than Chile, but less than Albania


So what is associate membership?

“The new agreement between Ukraine and the European Union will be an association agreement” - this is what the declaration of the Ukraine-EU summit, which took place on September 9, says. But what does “association” mean? Can Ukraine then be called an associate member of the European Union? There are no direct answers to these questions yet. Let's try to clarify.

Now it is very rare to hear about the associate membership of Ukraine in the EU. And a few years ago, they talked a lot about this in the first months of Yushchenko’s coming to power, and earlier, when in well-known political circles it became uncomfortable with the idea that Ukraine could create a single economic space with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. It was then, 5 years ago, and they began to say, they say, why do we need the SES, if it prevents Ukraine from becoming an associate member of the EU - after all, it allegedly could become such very soon.

At the same time, the idea was formed that such membership is just as necessary a stage for a full-fledged entry into the EU as the caterpillar and pupal stages for the appearance of a butterfly, or, as in Soviet times, being in October and pioneers for joining the Komsomol. Such a truth seemed so taken for granted that there seemed to be no natural, seemingly questions:

1) what rights will Ukraine receive as an associated member?

2) who else has a similar membership?

Somehow it implies that such a member of the EU is something like a candidate member for the CPSU in the past: he can take part in party meetings with an advisory vote and knows that when his candidate’s experience ends, he will become full member of the party.

Yes, in Europe there are indeed states that are not members of the EU, but have a definite participation in the formulation of Union decisions, which even candidates in this organization do not have. These are members of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), which together with the EU form a common market called the European Economic Area - Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein (EFTA also includes Switzerland, which, however, refused to participate in this association). In accordance with the agreement that entered into force on 1 on January 1994, the EU consults with the three mentioned states in drafting Union legislation. However, they are not involved in making decisions.

In practice, the economic legislation of these countries is synchronized with the EU across all sectors except agriculture and fisheries, and the joint committee of the EU and the rest of the common space countries decides on the extension of the new economic laws of the Union to the three common market states mentioned.

So far this mechanism has functioned quite smoothly. Due to high economic development and synchronization of legislation, EFTA countries are considered to be the closest to the EU, and the reason for their non-alignment with the organization is only their unwillingness. Article 1 of the Agreement on the European Economic Area states that this document is an “association agreement”.

Thus, it is logical to call Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein associate members of the EU, but they are not so referred to in official documents of the European Union.

So what then is associate membership?

There is no answer to this question, because in reality the notion of “associated membership” is not found in EU documents. It is an invention of politicians and journalists. Not only Ukrainian. It can often be found in the press, focused on the Russian audience. At the same time, Eastern and Southern European countries were named associate members, which concluded association agreements with the EU and were considered in Brussels as potential EU members in the future. Maybe the fact is that for the Russian ear the words “associate member” sounds more natural than the “party to the association agreement”?

I immediately recall the proverb: “though you call a pot - only do not plant in the oven”. Does it really matter how the agreement is called, if in practice it makes the state the most associate member, opening the prospect of full-fledged membership? But the fact of the matter is that a contract whose title contains the word “association” does not necessarily open up such a prospect.

Associations in the early years of the EU

The first association agreements the European Economic Community (formerly the EU was called this way) concluded 1963 with Greece, Turkey and a group of former African colonies in France, Belgium and Italy. The latter document, commonly referred to as the Yaoundé Convention, was officially called the “Association Convention between the European Economic Community and the African and Malgash states associated with this community”. Of course, in Europe there were no plans to accept Chad, Niger or Madagascar to the EEC. And the leaders of these countries did not have the slightest illusion about this.

Then, the association was primarily meant to spread trade preferences in the relations between the metropolis and the former colonies to the relations of all the EEC countries with the parties to the agreements. One of the consequences of these surviving preferences was the trade war between the EU and the United States that broke out a few years ago over bananas from African and Caribbean countries. However, the word “association” to characterize relations with these countries has long disappeared from the official lexicon. This happened in 1975, when the Lome convention replaced the Yaoundé convention.

As for Greece and Turkey, the agreements dealt with measures for the transition to free trade and the creation of customs unions with them, but not about the prospect of admission to the community. After all, the level of these countries did not correspond at all to the level of the founders of the EEC, and most importantly, the founders themselves did not seek to expand the community even at the expense of their respective economies of Great Britain, Austria, Switzerland and Scandinavian countries, which together with Ireland and Portugal created at the end of 1950 EFTA And the agreements with Greece and Turkey were just a good move by the EEC in competition with another Western European grouping.

With the departure of de Gaulle’s policy of isolationism in the EEC, it was over, and after short negotiations, Great Britain, Ireland and Denmark joined the community. At the same time, no agreements on their association with the EEC were concluded at the transition stage, but at the same time association agreements were concluded with the former British colonies in Europe - Malta and Cyprus. Their goal was to create a customs union in perspective, but no more.

Thus, in the practice of the European Union in 1960 — 1970. the word “association” was used to denote agreements with states that are incomparable in their level of development with the members of the EEC. The very notion of “association” does not imply that it can be applied only to the relations of a senior and junior partner. However, these are the nuances of a political language. After all, once the word “colony” did not name a country forcibly seized by another state.

After the association agreement with Malta, the EEC has not concluded association agreements with other countries for almost two decades. Without them, the community included Spain and Portugal. And for the entry of Greece did not need to enter anything about the prospect of membership in the old agreement. A little later, after short negotiations and also without any associative stage, Austria, Sweden and Finland joined the united Europe (already called the EU, but not the EEC).

European agreements for Eastern European countries

The renaming of the European Community to the European Union took place at a time when the prospect of integration into it opened for the former socialist countries, with many of which promising agreements had already been concluded. Officially, they were called "European agreements establishing an association between the EU and its members, on the one hand, and Hungary (or Poland, the Czech Republic, etc.), on the other hand." It was after them that Eastern European countries were used to be colloquially referred to as associated members of the EU. In fact, they, of course, did not receive any vote in the affairs of the Union, however, of course, these treaties were very different from the association agreements concluded by the EEC in 1960 - the beginning of 1970. The documents affected not only the economy, but also a wide range of political and humanitarian issues, and most importantly, they clearly indicated the possibility of full participation in the Union of Eastern European states that signed these documents.

Thus, in the preamble of the association agreement between the EEC and Hungary, which entered into force in 1994, it was stated: “Bearing in mind that community membership is the ultimate goal of Hungary, and that the real association from the point of view of the parties will help to achieve this goal”.

And in the first article of the contract, where the goals of the association were listed, the following was named:

“Establish new norms, practices and policies as the basis for the integration of Hungary into the community”.

The same documents established free trade zones between the European Union and the candidate countries. Moreover, the additional protocols and supplements to the agreements devoted to this topic were several times larger than the document itself. The main part of the applications were the schedules of reduction of duties on Eastern European countries on various groups of goods from the European Union.

It was at that time that the EU was trying to semi-officially define what an association is. Thus, in the book of Klaus-Dieter Borchardt “The Legal ABC of the Community”, which had been on the official website of the EU for many years, the section “Association Agreement” existed and the following wording was given:

“The association goes far beyond simple trade regulation and includes close economic cooperation and a variety of EU financial assistance to the country concerned. Three types of associations must be distinguished: agreements that maintain special ties between individual EU members and non-member countries (i.e. with former colonies. - Auth.); agreements on preparing for entry into the community or on the creation of a customs union (i.e. with the countries of Eastern Europe, and earlier with Greece. - Auth.); Agreement on the European Economic Area. "

I note that the EU did not provide financial assistance to the countries of this space, although, according to the author, such assistance is one of the indispensable differences of the association from simple cooperation. But let's leave it to Dr. Borchardt. Moreover, agreements on associations soon followed, not falling under its definition

Associations without a European perspective

From the middle of 90, a new stage began in the EU's relations with the Arab states of the Mediterranean and Israel. Instead of the existing cooperation agreements, documents began to be drawn up under the name “Euro-Mediterranean Agreement Establishing an Association ... (hereinafter the same as in agreements with Eastern Europeans). To date, such agreements have been signed and ratified with all non-European states of the region, except Libya and Syria.

The words in the title of the document seem to be the same as in the agreements with Eastern Europeans, but nothing is said at least about the distant entry of these states into the European Union. The objectives of the agreements are limited to the creation of a free trade zone (the agreements also include a mass of applications dedicated to regulating this process) and the development of political and humanitarian cooperation. However, they do not limit the right of their non-European signatories to participate in the Arab League, the Islamic Conference and the Organization of Oil Exporters.

It means that the association of the EU with the Eastern European state and the association with the Mediterranean state - as they say in Odessa, are “two big differences”.

At the same time, as the Euro-Mediterranean process began, the EU entered into agreements with the CIS countries (except Belarus and Turkmenistan), which were similarly called “partnership and cooperation agreements”. Unlike the Euro-Mediterranean agreements, they do not aim to create a free trade zone, but only allow the possibility of negotiations on this issue, when the economies of the respective states are ripe for this, and WTO accession is considered maturity. And if we compare the volume of EU assistance to Ukraine and many Arab Mediterranean countries, it begins to seem that between the partnership and the association is really a huge distance. Ukraine, like other CIS countries, was helped much less. However, much is explained here not so much by the love of Europeans for their southern neighbors, as by the desire to prevent the influx of migrants from their side.

Formula for the Western Balkans

The beginning of the new millennium was marked by another type of EU association. The process of signing agreements with the Balkan countries, called "Association and Stabilization Agreements", has begun. Such agreements with Croatia, Macedonia and Serbia entered into force, and with Albania and Montenegro signed, but are waiting for ratification. That, however, does not prevent them from using the dividends from cooperation. Thus, the EU canceled import duties on many goods from Albania long before the signing of this agreement.

The content of the association and stabilization agreement is something between the agreements with the Mediterranean countries and with the states of Eastern Europe. But still they are closer to the latter. So, already in the first articles of the agreements, where the goals of the association are described, the creation of a free trade zone is directly named. While in the Mediterranean agreements this is stated in the middle of the document. On the other hand, in the first articles of the agreements with the Western Balkan countries nothing is said about their possible entry into the EU. However, in the final paragraphs of the preambles of these documents, they are still named as potential candidates. Here is how it looks, for example, in an agreement with Albania (in agreements with other countries of the Western Balkans, the text is absolutely identical):

“Recalling the readiness of the European Union for the maximum possible integration of Albania into the main political and economic movement of Europe and its status as a potential candidate for membership in the European Union on the basis of the European Union Treaty and the fulfillment of the criteria determined by the European Council in June 1993, subject to successful implementation this agreement primarily in the field of regional cooperation ".

However, in agreements with Hungary, Poland and other Eastern Europeans, the prospect of joining the EU was mentioned in the preambles and in the first articles. And this is not an accident. European diplomats approach the selection of words in association agreements with no less thoroughness than the famous poets approached the selection of associations in their poems.

A European Perspective for Tierra del Fuego?

The end of 2002 was marked for the EU by an association agreement with a country quite distant from it - Chile. This choice is not accidental - according to the economic level, Chile corresponds to the new EU members, the European Union is the largest trading partner of this country, and most importantly - the largest investor. Well, in terms of culture and mentality, of course, it is much closer to Europe than Algeria or Morocco.

However, are all of the above circumstances enough for Chile to qualify for EU membership in the distant future? In the lengthy text of the agreement, however, nowhere is there any reference to a customs union or a free trade zone. The prospect of full membership of Chile seems fantastic even for someone who knows that the European Union represented by the French overseas departments of Martinique, Guadeloupe and Guyana has long occupied a small part of the American continent. No, you can risk integrating Turkey - although many analysts are already shaking from this perspective - but move so far beyond geographical Europe ... It is unlikely that even next generations of politicians will be ready for this. Such reasoning about what will happen in such a distant future makes no more sense than assumptions about the ability of NATO to cope with flying saucers.

So, there can be no associative EU membership. And can only be an association agreement. But this cherished word for our politicians makes no sense outside the context of the document. It’s a paradox, but what the “association” is is not very clear to the European Union itself. Thus, the book “Legal ABC of the Community”, where this concept was explained, has already disappeared from the EU site. And in the explanatory dictionary of the basic terms placed there, there is only the concept of “the process of stabilization and association,” which refers to the EU’s relations with the countries of the Western Balkans.

“Further progress” instead of potential candidacy

However, despite the absence of an official definition, one thing is clear - the concept of “association” means a closer relationship of a country with the European Union than the concepts of “partnership” or “cooperation”. However, this is not just a close connection of the EU with any state, but certainly a connection between the European Union and a weaker country, which the Union more or less involves in its orbit. The EU does not have association agreements with countries with a higher or equal level: the United States, Japan, Canada and even with Switzerland. And since Ukraine is far from the above-mentioned countries, then, of course, an association agreement is possible with it. The only question is what will be written there.

On the eve of his trip to France, Viktor Yushchenko argued that the new agreement between Ukraine and the EU would be essentially the same as the agreements signed with the countries of Eastern Europe at the beginning of 1990's. But it is already clear that this is not the case. For the prospect of membership will not be written. The text of the summit declaration shows which words will obviously be used in the text of the treaty, which is planned to be concluded in March next year: “The Association Agreement leaves open the way for the further progressive development of EU-Ukraine relations. The EU recognizes Ukraine’s European aspirations and welcomes its European choice. The Presidents believe that the gradual convergence of Ukraine with the EU in the political, economic and legal fields will contribute to further progress in EU relations with Ukraine. ”.

So, unlike the agreements of the European Union with Chile and Morocco, it refers to the "European aspirations" of the association member. But unlike agreements with Albania and Serbia, we are not talking about a potential candidacy - there are only words about the possibility of “further” (that is, after concluding an association) “progress of relations”, by which you can both imply and not imply the prospect of membership. In general, as Nicolas Sarkozy said at this summit, the door to the EU is “not closed and not open.”

In this situation, Ukrainian diplomacy must fight not to fill the agreements with words about the European choice, but for the sake of a visionary “further progress” not to make unjustified concessions in the transition to the EU free trade. Work on this part of the agreement requires particularly painstaking. Thus, the association and stabilization agreement between the EU and Albania fits on 568 pages, of which 460 accounts for additional protocols, mainly on the schedule for removing tariff restrictions. And since the Ukrainian economy is much more diverse than the Albanian, it is clear that such protocols in the future agreement should be even more voluminous.

The soft limit of national sovereignty

By the way, the creation of an association with the European Union requires a supranational body, which is the Association Council. The difference between this council and the Cooperation Council, which is envisaged by the EU agreements with Ukraine and other CIS countries, is that the decisions of the former are binding, and the latter are advisory.

So, in the 85 article of the Agreement on Cooperation and Partnership between Ukraine and the EU it is written: "The Cooperation Council may make the necessary recommendations in agreement between the two Parties."

But in the article 80 of the Association Agreement between Tunisia and the EU states: “The Council of the Association to achieve the objectives of this Agreement has the authority to decide on matters specified in the Agreement. Decisions are binding for the parties who will take the necessary measures to implement them. ”.

Similar provisions exist in other association treaties that have been concluded with both European and non-European countries. The same agreements stipulate that if the dispute goes to a dead end, then the mediators will decide everything. It is clear that they are more likely to lean in support of the EU as a more influential and necessary side. Such advice in essence is, of course, a mild form of limiting sovereignty.

True, nowhere in the literature did not occur information about serious conflicts arising in the framework of the councils of the association. But this does not mean that they will not exist at all, especially in the case of Ukraine, where such a council, of course, will have to restrain the possible integration of the country in the eastern direction. For in the issue of integration in the post-Soviet space, the double standards of the European Union are most obvious.

The EU has usually demonstrated an interest in the regional integration of its partners, making it clear that, where this is real, it prefers to deal not with individual countries, but with formalized intergovernmental organizations. Thus, in 2001, the European Council set the condition for the conclusion of a free trade agreement with the states of the Gulf Cooperation Council, the conclusion of a customs union within this group. And the EU agreements with Morocco and Tunisia explicitly state that the purpose of these documents is to encourage regional integration of the Maghreb countries. As for the largest South American trade bloc Mercosur (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay), with which the European Union is negotiating the association, here Brussels even sponsors integration processes (unlike the US, which do not provide such assistance, hoping to join the whole continent to NAPHTHA).

Based on this logic, the European Union should support integration in the post-Soviet space. And when the European Neighborhood Policy was born, such support was overlooked, although not as actively as with respect to the Mediterranean states. So, in the communication of the European Commission to the European Council and the European Parliament on March 11 of 2003, where the concept of neighborhood was put forward, it was stated:

“On the future eastern external border, regional economic cooperation between Western new independent states (Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus) is already very strong and focused on traditional commodity-money flows from Russia to Russia. However, support for regional political cooperation and / or economic integration has not yet become a significant component of the EU policy towards Russia and the Western NIS

In the context of the new neighborhood policy, further regional and subregional cooperation and integration between the countries of the southern Mediterranean will be substantially supported. New initiatives to support regional cooperation between Russia and the Western NIS may also be considered. ”

However, later on, due to the deterioration of relations between Russia and Europe, which occurred mainly under the influence of the “new European” countries that entered the EU in 2004, this idea disappeared. If the joint communique on the meeting of the EU-Kazakhstan Cooperation Council in 2004 welcomed “Kazakhstan's efforts in the development of regional integration (SCO, CES, Central Asian Cooperation Organization)”Then at the next meetings of this council such words did not repeat, although no one in Europe stutters about the prospects of Astana to enter the European Union.

Therefore, it should be taken into account: if the future Ukrainian authorities start making any movements towards integration in the eastern direction, in Brussels, naturally, they will immediately express their dissatisfaction and say that, say, from the EU side, for Ukraine, both the association and the door to Europe not closed. And then, of course, they will remind you that this door is not open.
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  1. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 20 September 2013 07: 30 New
    +6
    To maintain the economy of Europe and the standard of living of its population, it needs new markets. There are almost no unemployed, and Ukraine is beautifully bred here. Oligarchti Yanukovych - they won’t stay in the loser, but the population understands in general why everything is paving
    1. experienced
      experienced 20 September 2013 10: 07 New
      +7
      It seems to me that you should not blame Ukraine. This is an independent independent state and it has every right to "walk the rake", accumulating its own experience. Let us recall the old Russian proverb “You won’t be forcibly sweet,” and Russia, trying to twist Ukraine’s arms by twisting its arms, is trying to drive Ukraine into a “bright future” - in the CU. It’s funny to watch how some forum users, who consider themselves prominent politicians and economists with foam at the mouth brand “traitors” in shame, seemingly haunted by the desire to become a “messiah” wassat It’s sad to realize that the Ukrainians were “silent”, apparently no longer hoping for the opportunity to express their opinion and at the same time not to be defamed and slandered at all.
      We need to develop our economy and then reach out to us with nothing to do with cheap gas and a freebie, but to do joint projects. hi
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 20 September 2013 10: 35 New
        +3
        Quote: seasoned
        It seems to me that you should not blame Ukraine. This is an independent independent state and it has every right to "walk the rake", accumulating its own experience.

        Ukraine, of course, has every right to walk the rake on its own, but then they say they say "the Russians are to blame, the Russians were badly persuaded."
        1. experienced
          experienced 20 September 2013 10: 42 New
          +1
          Quote: Setrac
          Ukraine, of course, has every right to walk the rake on its own, but then they say they say "the Russians are to blame, the Russians were badly persuaded."

          If you do not get "clumsy" into their politics and economy, then no one will be able to put forward any complaints later. I personally got tired of these trade wars, there are international norms and rules, and here it is according to them that we need to build relations, taking into account my benefit. We signed a gas agreement, squeezed, yelled but paid, and in other areas not to take a word, but to “encase” it with contracts and agreements, if possible. Nobody will take Ukraine into the EU (Turkey has been “nominating” for about 20 years) and Yanukovych perfectly understands this.
          But to “anticipate” who and what will lay claims to us in the future, there is a Foreign Ministry and the Government of Russia for this, and not the VO hi
        2. edge
          edge 20 September 2013 13: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Setrac

          Ukraine, of course, has every right to walk the rake on its own

          We can safely say that the time of Ukraine is over. Moreover, several phases ended at once - Ukraine will break up either as part of the European Union or as part of the Euro-Asian Union ..... no one will tolerate such a thing ... just because nobody needs it already .
        3. washi
          washi 20 September 2013 13: 51 New
          -1
          Quote: Setrac
          Quote: seasoned
          It seems to me that you should not blame Ukraine. This is an independent independent state and it has every right to "walk the rake", accumulating its own experience.

          Ukraine, of course, has every right to walk the rake on its own, but then they say they say "the Russians are to blame, the Russians were badly persuaded."

          Of course, this (with the self-name Border (translated from Old Slavic)) education called the state (received statehood only in 1991) can go wherever it wants. Let them pay only for a return to the sources (territory, or a complete loss of independence) (Khodorkovsky needs helpers))
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 20 September 2013 15: 31 New
            0
            Quote: Vasya
            Of course, this (with the self-designation Border (translated from Old Slavic)) is an entity called the state

            You will not be offended if the same (or similar) begin to write about Russia?
            Quote: Vasya
            (Received statehood only in 1991)

            Like the other 12 republics of the former USSR, including “this entity” is Russia or “Raska” translated from “New English” (on whose behalf you write), moreover, your Yeltsin was eager to become “independent”!
            Quote: Vasya
            Let them pay only for a return to the sources (territory, or a complete loss of independence) (Khodorkovsky needs helpers))

            What do the independence of a sovereign state and some Russian oligarch have in common, I don’t understand request Apparently this is such a "smart" joke, for selected intellectuals (already repeated it in two posts!)
            And I’m afraid I’ll have to upset you, if anyone is paid to return to the “sources” (of what sources? I also did not understand), then it’s definitely not for you)
            P.S. We look at the reaction to your post and mine and are amazed at the “adequacy” in the form of pluses for your insults and minuses for my “insulting” answer (well, I’m “Wang”, what the hell is not joking, I could be wrong)
            1. AleksUkr
              AleksUkr 20 September 2013 16: 52 New
              0
              Quote: Corneli
              more than anyone else, your Yeltsin was eager to become "independent"!

              Yeltsin is as ours as yours. Especially when they seduced for three and we got what we have.
              (+ Kravchuk and Shushkevich) - if someone does not remember .. It's not about the pros and cons. Everyone knows that cola panas are fighting - at the lackeys, forelocks should be dragged. Extreme always remains the people. And this is no longer good. I believe that Ukraine has long grown out of short pants and it is time for her to think with whom and where. You will not be forcibly sweet! Only then to regret it was not necessary. After all, politicians come and go, and life goes on. And every nation deserves its own government. No matter how tsynichno it may sound. And THIS IS NOT AN EXIT:
      2. washi
        washi 20 September 2013 13: 40 New
        0
        How much can you say: violence does not lead to anything good.
        Let them go wherever they want. If they want to return, pay future expenses for restoring the economy (territories, enterprises, independence (help Khodorkovsky))
      3. Corneli
        Corneli 20 September 2013 15: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: seasoned
        It’s sad to realize that the Ukrainians were “silent”, apparently no longer hoping for the opportunity to express their opinion and at the same time not to be defamed and slandered at all.

        Yes, we write slowly, regardless of tantrums and minuses) There are too many articles in the stream, you can still sit in one ... but then non-stop for 2-3 per day! Do not have time to read, already new pile. and time is not rubber, there are other activities.
        hi
      4. piotr534
        piotr534 20 September 2013 17: 26 New
        +2
        Therefore, it should be taken into account: if the future Ukrainian authorities start making any movements towards integration in the eastern direction, in Brussels, naturally, they will immediately express their dissatisfaction and say that, say, from the EU side, for Ukraine, both the association and the door to Europe not closed. And then, of course, they will remind you that this door is not open.
        Funny, I can already hear how Ukraine is blackmailing the EU with rapprochement with Russia, asking for more and more preferences. Actually, in the politics of Ukraine there is little that is changing, it just wants to change one dairy cow, which has stopped giving milk to another. Yes, the lessons of maneuvering in Lukashenko were not in vain. Oh well. hi
    2. Val_y
      Val_y 20 September 2013 11: 57 New
      +3
      So in this, the badyaga, the europa, is panicky afraid of the restoration of the USSR (and not only the europa, the cannibal Hilary used to say that “we will do anything, but we will interfere with the restoration.” For thirty pieces of silver they sold Nenko (they killed their mother, sold their friends to slavery and sold Ukrainian children to the organs) AND HOW THESE Ghouls MAY SAY THAT IN THE ENTRANCE HALL OF THE EU BETTER THAN THE URBIN OF THE USSR.
      1. washi
        washi 20 September 2013 14: 02 New
        -1
        Read the story. There ALL the somersaults of Zaporizhzhya are described. The oath is one. Help others. Etc.
        Selling in politics - the Ukrainians will soon outperform even the fathers of modern politics - the Angles.
        They will not accept the Outskirts in association with the EU, but they will not join the CU either.
        They are ready to mischief in petty Russia, but they are afraid to send specifically.
        This territory will again be like G ..... in the hole and hang out further.
      2. Corneli
        Corneli 20 September 2013 15: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: Val_Y
        For thirty pieces of silver they sold Nenko (they killed their mother, sold their slaves to friends and sold Ukrainian children to organs)

        Can this phrase be more detailed? Or is it so ... anyway to write ..
    3. edge
      edge 20 September 2013 13: 23 New
      +1
      in Ukraine, they prefer to just climb from the Russian neck - to the "European Union". Have you ever seen a sloth moving from tree to tree, the Ukrainian government does exactly the same thing.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 20 September 2013 15: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: hert
        in Ukraine, they prefer to just climb from the Russian neck - to the "European Union". Have you ever seen a sloth moving from tree to tree, the Ukrainian government does exactly the same thing.

        Then it’s strange not to see the joy of the Russian forum users, about this ... talk so much about which Ukrainians are “parasites and thieves” and not be glad that they finally get off the “neck” of long-suffering Russia ...request
        As for me, this is an occasion for a "holiday" (for your holiday, in the sense) ... with a parade, fireworks and popular festivities fellow
        1. piotr534
          piotr534 20 September 2013 19: 53 New
          0
          As for me, this is an occasion for a "holiday" (for your holiday, in the sense) ... with a parade, fireworks and popular festivities
          Yes, actually in central Ukraine and in Galicia, there are no one who sheds tears. It is annoying that the lands for which Russian blood was shed (Crimea, the Black Sea region, Kharkiv region, East U.), by mistake, turned out to be part of an not entirely friendly state. And after such somersaults, the Ukrainian authorities may find themselves behind the new "Berlin Wall". That's actually what it is ! hi
  2. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 20 September 2013 07: 37 New
    +2
    Interesting stuff.
    The real interest of Europe in Ukraine is one and purely political - to tear it from Russia. All the rest is talk. Ukraine EU-u is not needed, it has its own problems above the roof. I would venture to suggest that the harm from this (association with a huge country with a large population) for Europe is not fully calculated. But you can look at the problems with Bulgaria, for example. However, again, I’ll assume that the EU will only limit itself to pulling Ukraine away from the Russian Federation, and then it will accept some kind of “road map” for 15-20 years. And there, as they say, "either the donkey will die or the padishah."
  3. domokl
    domokl 20 September 2013 07: 40 New
    14
    Ukraine’s decision was made, and this must be recognized. Century-old dreams of Ukrainians have come true. They have become Europeanized under the Poles, now they will be under everyone at once. Russia should already think about itself. About the economy (urgently change integration with Ukraine on its own, strengthen borders and so on, other, other.
    And for Ukraine, I think they will survive. As another question. And in what quality too. Most likely according to the Yugoslav version.
    Now a lot of comments will be about the people who do not want integration. Only here is something that I don’t see demonstrations, Maidan and other things that is inherent in Ukrainians dissatisfaction. Only we say. So the majority decided - better under the European pan than with Russia. to be...
    1. Denis
      Denis 20 September 2013 08: 15 New
      0
      Quote: domokl
      Now many comments will be about the people who do not want integration.

      That's for sure, the BROTHER people are finally happy.
      1. washi
        washi 20 September 2013 14: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Denis
        Quote: domokl
        Now many comments will be about the people who do not want integration.

        That's for sure, the BROTHER people are finally happy.

        Incest does not lead to good (war of 1914).
        This is not fraternal. This is WE
    2. avt
      avt 20 September 2013 09: 58 New
      0
      Quote: domokl
      And for Ukraine, I think they will survive. As another question. And in what quality too. Most likely according to the Yugoslav version.

      Or maybe according to the Baltic, Yugoslav version provides for a civil war and intervention with humanitarian bombing.
    3. washi
      washi 20 September 2013 14: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: domokl
      Ukraine’s decision was made, and this must be recognized. Century-old dreams of Ukrainians have come true. They have become Europeanized under the Poles, now they will be under everyone at once. Russia should already think about itself. About the economy (urgently change integration with Ukraine on its own, strengthen borders and so on, other, other.
      And for Ukraine, I think they will survive. As another question. And in what quality too. Most likely according to the Yugoslav version.
      Now a lot of comments will be about the people who do not want integration. Only here is something that I don’t see demonstrations, Maidan and other things that is inherent in Ukrainians dissatisfaction. Only we say. So the majority decided - better under the European pan than with Russia. to be...

      Under the Poles, they really already felt like Europe, but they already forgot.
      Russia has always survived and will survive without its outskirts (not only southwestern, but also northwestern, southern).
  4. Denis
    Denis 20 September 2013 07: 43 New
    0
    It’s somehow implied that such an EU member is something like a candidate for membership in the CPSU in the past: he can take part in party meetings with an advisory vote and knows when his candidacy will end, if he doesn’t have any emergency, he’ll already full member of the party
    The candidate term in the CPSU was determined by time, and these are silent. They do not need equal members
    Yes, and the economic dawn of the Baltic states is not visible, so hungry are needed. They are more accommodating
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 20 September 2013 07: 49 New
      12
      No comments laughing
      1. Asgard
        Asgard 20 September 2013 08: 25 New
        +3
        Visualized cool))))
        Sorry for the non-Russian word (Ukrainians need to get used to the European)))

        They want to tear Ukraine away from Russia. Or rather divide the Russian people.
        With the Poles, 200 years ago it was possible, it’s not the Slavs but with the brothers "Ukrainians" - it is unlikely to succeed. All the same, somewhere deep inside - This is a healthy nation. Both in appearance ... and in all honesty .....
        Then the “boiling point” grows there and the merciless rebellion has a certain electorate)))), I doubt that they will be the initiator, but if something breaks out, the Slav brothers will be happy to help their government go to the EU ....
        Although knowing the wild temper of some of my friends in Kievan Rus, I doubt very much the peaceful outcome .......
        Ukrainian riot will be senseless and merciless .....
        if the demons will break out (but these are good demons, they also are)))))
        1. washi
          washi 20 September 2013 14: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Asgard
          Visualized cool))))
          Sorry for the non-Russian word (Ukrainians need to get used to the European)))
          They want to tear Ukraine away from Russia. Or rather divide the Russian people.
          With the Poles, 200 years ago it was possible, it’s not the Slavs but with the brothers "Ukrainians" - it is unlikely to succeed. All the same, somewhere deep inside - This is a healthy nation. Both in appearance ... and in all honesty .....
          Then the “boiling point” grows there and the merciless rebellion has a certain electorate)))), I doubt that they will be the initiator, but if something breaks out, the Slav brothers will be happy to help their government go to the EU ....
          Although knowing the wild temper of some of my friends in Kievan Rus, I doubt very much the peaceful outcome .......
          Ukrainian riot will be senseless and merciless .....
          if the demons will break out (but these are good demons, they also are)))))

          Alien religion began to prevail on the outskirts of the Russian state. Alien religion is an alien worldview. And this is not Islam - Catholicism. Local boyars betrayed the people's faith and submitted to Rome.
          Having betrayed once, they will always betray.
          This does not apply to commoners who fled from serfdom in Russia. This applies to the boyars and princes who fled from the law into gentry lawlessness.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 20 September 2013 15: 53 New
            0
            Quote: Vasya
            Alien religion began to prevail on the outskirts of the Russian state. Alien religion is an alien worldview. And this is not Islam - Catholicism. Local boyars betrayed the people's faith and submitted to Rome.

            Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) - 6,3-6,5 million
            Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Kiev Patriarchate) - 4,0-4,2 million
            Total: 10-11 million people.
            Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church - 2,1 million
            Roman Catholic Church - 0,85 million
            Total: 3 million people.
            Explain to me, where is the "predominance" of Rome? Even with Greek Catholics they are 3 times! less. And what kind of "local boyars" are the parishioners of the Roman Catholic Church?) Maybe Yanukovych (as the main boyar)? laughing
            Shoto I watch you "incurred" with a sweep ... "balabolit"
      2. MG42
        MG42 20 September 2013 14: 07 New
        +3
        Quote: Apollon
        No comments

        A cool cartoon I can name all the “rats” in this cartoon by name, it’s not clear that the role of the “main rat” following Fühl’s guide is Azarovbecause he is essentially a technical prime minister, just as Fradkov was in Russia, he is completely puppet ..
        There should be Yanukovych and his court oligarchs go ..
  5. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 20 September 2013 07: 58 New
    +3
    Quote: domokl
    The decision by Ukraine has been made and this must be recognized

    But,."Century-old dreams of Ukrainians come true"-You are in "quotation marks№ ... not the people, but the leadership ... yeah .. hi
  6. treskoed
    treskoed 20 September 2013 08: 03 New
    +3
    The next step is the introduction of the Latin alphabet in Ukraine! How it sounds: Salo, Zibulya !!!
  7. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 20 September 2013 08: 08 New
    0
    Consent is a product with non-resistance of the parties. It is clear that Europe is interested in weakening Russia and subjugating Ukraine. Most relish that Ukraine wants the same. More precisely, its rulers. Why. The first one. It’s really difficult to govern the country, you need to strain, think about how to combine the interests of the country with your usual aspirations to steal more. Everything is simple here. The regulatory framework is brought to the elite of the natives in a ready-made whole form, without having to think, you can completely concentrate on your usual activities, and responsibility for the consequences will be removed from the elite, there will be no sanctions, the accumulated penny is quietly in the bank. The second one. As we all understand, war is soon possible. The elite of Ukraine has chosen allies, i.e. future winners in her opinion. Now Europe, even if it wants to, will not be able to fight off Ukraine’s attempts to “associate” under any conditions. And thirdly, the convenience of "working" with European "partners." Unlike Russia, small and poor people live there. For those business pennies that in Russia a partner from laziness will be sent nafig in Europe will smile, kiss in the seat and ask to come again.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 20 September 2013 16: 09 New
      0
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Consent is a product with non-resistance of the parties. It is clear that Europe is interested in weakening Russia and subjugating Ukraine. Most relish that Ukraine wants the same. More precisely, its rulers.

      If you can agree with this ... then your conclusions ... this is something!
      Quote: chunga-changa
      It’s really difficult to govern the country, you need to strain, think about how to combine the interests of the country with your usual aspirations to steal more.

      If the management of the infusion is a “tricky thing”, why not join Russia (as many want here), to the extremes of the TS, or do you seriously think that they steal less in Russia?
      Quote: chunga-changa
      The second one. As we all understand, war is soon possible. The elite of Ukraine has chosen allies, i.e. future winners in her opinion.

      There will be no winners in a nuclear war, and to rely on at least survival (or rather on victory) being on the "front line" is absolutely ... strange
      Quote: chunga-changa
      And thirdly, the convenience of "working" with European "partners." Unlike Russia, small and poor people live there. For those business pennies that in Russia a partner from laziness will be sent nafig in Europe will smile, kiss in the seat and ask to come again.

      Just smiling lol You probably refer to the 1% of Russian oligarchs who don’t move a penny and a finger. A "poor" Europe in terms of the main population, as it were, is higher in standard of living than Russia. And the fact that they have smaller oligarchs than folders in Russia (and those that are large, those former Russian folders that left for permanent residence) and are ready to plow for a penny, does not paint the Russian oligarchs. it just says that they didn’t earn their fortune by honest labor and compromise.
  8. major071
    major071 20 September 2013 08: 15 New
    +9
    Now a lot of comments will be about the people who do not want integration. Only here is something that I don’t see demonstrations, Maidan and other things that is inherent in Ukrainians dissatisfaction. Only we say. So the majority decided - better under the European pan than with Russia. to be...
    The government of Ukraine decided, the people said nothing. So they are all happy. Well, good luck. Flag in hand, drum on the neck and let them head the column going to x ..
    1. edge
      edge 20 September 2013 13: 39 New
      0
      and nevertheless, the history of the state is made by individuals, not people ....... Soviet textbooks lied. Yes, it was not for nothing that compositions were written on the topics: -I want to be like ....... if I were .. .... then ........
    2. washi
      washi 20 September 2013 14: 46 New
      0
      It
      Quote: major071
      Now a lot of comments will be about the people who do not want integration. Only here is something that I don’t see demonstrations, Maidan and other things that is inherent in Ukrainians dissatisfaction. Only we say. So the majority decided - better under the European pan than with Russia. to be...
      The government of Ukraine decided, the people said nothing. So they are all happy. Well, good luck. Flag in hand, drum on the neck and let them head the column going to x ..

      This is the Russian people. He suffers for a long time, but then ....
      There is nothing worse than the Russian riot
      The authorities of Little Russia and New Russia have forgotten about this.
      I do not want to participate in these disassemblies, but I will not allow Western countries either. Let them be determined.
      The tear of one child is not worth the life of millions. Otherwise, killing and forcing to pedophilia Russians (Outskirts and Russia), Kyrgyz children in the USA, Turkey, France, etc. it would have already been punished by the destruction of the adoptive parents by the actions of the special forces of our countries.
  9. v.lyamkin
    v.lyamkin 20 September 2013 08: 30 New
    +1
    Yes, there is one thought about the need for Ukraine for the EU. The fact is that, judging by the publications in the media, Ukraine is close to the beginning of the commercial production of shale gas. Contracts signed with US companies. That is, it looks like Ukraine will become the EU industrial zone and, thanks to this, European countries will try to get out of dependence on our gas supplies. If this happens, then on the ecology of Ukraine it will be possible to put a big bold cross. Gas production quickly sneezes.
  10. saag
    saag 20 September 2013 10: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Asgard
    Ukrainian riot will be senseless and merciless ....

    There will be no revolt, either senseless or merciless, as they say from the top, they will do it and will do it, neo-fascism came to the eastern regions that someone was very indignant, and after all Babi Yar and Krasnodon remembered, no, it swept for a sweet soul, such non-resistance to evil evokes a thought like say in the crematorium in a beautiful wrapper and go to the crematorium
    1. Val_y
      Val_y 20 September 2013 12: 02 New
      +1
      Dear, do not be clever, if you do not know in Odessa or Sevastopol have been ??? This is Odessa hi
    2. Val_y
      Val_y 20 September 2013 12: 04 New
      +2
      And this is Sevastopol. Monuments were erected at the base, so that "pi.stat not carry bags" soldier
    3. washi
      washi 20 September 2013 14: 54 New
      0
      Quote: saag
      Quote: Asgard
      Ukrainian riot will be senseless and merciless ....

      There will be no revolt, either senseless or merciless, as they say from the top, they will do it and will do it, neo-fascism came to the eastern regions that someone was very indignant, and after all Babi Yar and Krasnodon remembered, no, it swept for a sweet soul, such non-resistance to evil evokes a thought like say in the crematorium in a beautiful wrapper and go to the crematorium

      There can be no Ukrainian riot. There is no such nation. There may be a Russian revolt.
  11. MG42
    MG42 20 September 2013 13: 47 New
    +2
    In fact, of course, Ukraine’s entry into the EU is NOT realistic at this stage and the next 10-20 years, Turkey can’t go this way, the Greeks have rested, but in Ukraine the other problem is too different in almost everything with the EU countries, starting from legislation, corruption, standard of living, etc.
    Although it should be noted that the EU and all countries that signed the association have different agreements, some do not plan to be there purely because of geography, for example, Mexico, South Africa, South Korea, Chile, Morocco, Tunisia, etc. but at the same time, the agreement with Ukraine bears in-depth character, since Ukraine is geographically located in Europe and it has potential in the form of, for example, the most fertile black earths and a transit country.
    Also, the US does not hide that they are also participating in this process and the new US ambassador to Ukraine has already said something about this ..
    The strategic plan, of course, is to create a buffer zone from the countries of the CU and not allow integration processes to develop there in the post-Soviet space ..
  12. knn54
    knn54 20 September 2013 13: 50 New
    +1
    Haberdashery and cardinal - this is power! Bonacieux shouted, poking a finger in his chest ...
  13. EGORKA
    EGORKA 20 September 2013 15: 55 New
    0
    Good riddance) Let the currents not shout strongly that they are "being killed", Ukraine will live, as we will see, when Russia will do what is beneficial to it and think primarily about itself. In such pragmatic situations, I think and will be neighbors.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 20 September 2013 16: 18 New
      0
      Quote: EGORKA
      Good riddance) Let the currents not shout strongly that they are "being killed", Ukraine will live, as we will see, when Russia will do what is beneficial to it and think primarily about itself. In such pragmatic situations, I think and will be neighbors.

      I think the Russian side has already shown enough “how” it will be, it is unlikely that a new or unexpected thing will be expected (except for war). And by the way, “benefit” is a relative term ... Breaking, for example, trade and production ties that have been working for decades out of miserable revenge is a dubious benefit (for Russia in particular) both in the short and long term. But you, in the Kremlin, apparently think differently (someone is trying to prove something, try to show)
  14. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 20 September 2013 17: 25 New
    0
    SIMPLY FOR INFORMATION!

    1. Initially (from the sixteenth century), “Ukrainians” were called frontier servicemen of the Moscow state who served in the Oka against the Crimeans.
    2. From the second half of the XVII century. Under Russian influence, the concept of "Ukrainians" spread to Slobodans and Little Russian Cossacks. Since that time, it was gradually consumed in Little Russia itself.
    3. By the end of the XVIII century. the first attempts of Russian and Polish writers to use the word "Ukrainians" refer to the entire Little Russian population.
    4. The use of the word "Ukrainians" in the ethnic sense (to designate a separate Slavic ethnic group) began in the midth century. in the circles of the Russian radical intelligentsia.
    5. "Ukrainians" as a self-name took root only in Soviet times.
    Thus, arising no later than the XVI century. and gradually spreading from Moscow to Transcarpathia, the word "Ukrainians" completely changed its meaning: initially meaning border servants of the Moscow state, it ultimately acquired the significance of a separate Slavic ethnic group.

    BTW: Ukraine recently celebrated - National Flag Day.
    Orthodox philosopher A.F. Losev argued: "A symbol is a visible expression of an idea." Is the flag of the SS division “Galicia”, which is hoisted above the Southwestern edge of Russia, an embodiment of independent Ukraine?
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 20 September 2013 19: 24 New
      0
      Quote: AleksUkr
      Orthodox philosopher A.F. Losev argued: "A symbol is a visible expression of an idea." Is the flag of the SS division “Galicia”, which is hoisted above the Southwestern edge of Russia, an embodiment of independent Ukraine?

      Firstly not so, you forgot something there
      Secondly, since such a conversation began, the flag of the traitors of Vlasovites hangs over the Kremlin, why aren’t you removing it?
    2. v.lyamkin
      v.lyamkin 21 September 2013 05: 38 New
      0
      Not a connoisseur of the etymology of the word Ukraine, but it looks like it was originally used, and maybe it sounded like "Outskirts", that is, the outskirts of the state.
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 21 September 2013 13: 53 New
      0
      This flag was used (unofficially) in Ukraine, at the beginning of the 20th century, and the SS "Galicia" bandaged under it, like the ROA under the Russian tricolor ... to which none of the other "gangs" had nothing in common!
  15. Arkan
    Arkan 20 September 2013 23: 23 New
    0
    Thanks to the author for the article. If I understood correctly, this is a hang or fixation of the territory in the space between the West and the East.