Military Review

Zbignev Brzezinski: Ukraine is the most desirable "trophy" of Russia

141
The well-known American strategist and political thinker Zbigniew Brzezinski still believes that Russia and Ukraine will inevitably end up in the framework of a larger Europe. He is confident that the rapprochement between Ukraine and the European Union will have a beneficial effect on Russia.


Zbignev Brzezinski: Ukraine is the most desirable "trophy" of Russia


Should Ukraine expect any surprises before the November summit of the Eastern Partnership in Vilnius, for example, like those that occurred in Armenia after the visit of Russian President Putin?

Ukraine, of course, is a much larger country. In a sense, it has more interdependent relations with Russia than Armenia, which is geographically cut off from it. Therefore, it is quite possible to imagine that Ukraine can be more vulnerable if the Russians put this topic aside.

If Kiev in the future successfully passes the path of European integration, how can this be perceived by the Russian population and elites and reflect on the Kremlin doctrine of the “Russian world” to which Ukraine also belongs to Moscow?

I think the Kremlin is trying to revive the withering doctrine. But in the long term, close Ukrainian - European relations are paving the way for closer Russian - European relations, since it is clear that Ukraine and Russia are philosophically and culturally part of Europe. Ukraine cooperates more closely with Europe, having a benefit from it, but Russia also has an indirect benefit from it. Finally, this is a much more promising future for Russia than the option when Russia is isolated and is trying with bribes to achieve the integration of Ukraine into its new empire, at the same time being squeezed between a united Europe and China increasing its power.

Moscow emphasizes that the Customs Union is primarily an economy. How much politics do you think this project is hiding?

In fact, nothing is even hidden there. It is clear that its essence is in an attempt to conquer the post-Soviet countries that are independent today, one after another. Ukraine in this context is the most desirable "trophy", and I think that the Russians are determined to subjugate it. In fact, the question is whether Ukrainians are ready to defend their independence? Therefore, the Ukrainians themselves must determine whether they will again be a province within the composition of the greater Russia.

What do you think, how much your views in this context are shared by the current administration in the White House?

I think that wise people in the United States who advocate, so to speak, greater Europe, which would include both democratic Russia and Ukraine, realize that today's rapprochement between Ukraine and Europe creates conditions conducive to the rapprochement of Russia with Europe. If not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow. Therefore, it is in the interests, above all, of Ukraine itself, but also of Russia, and at the same time of Europe, so that this process of Ukraine’s accession to Europe is not sabotaged, not interrupted, and turned into attempts to subjugate Ukraine to a large imperial Russia.

Two years ago, you pointed out that in Ukraine, "political repression may be unfolding." Among other things, you spoke about the beginning of the Tymoshenko case. Will not the signing of an association agreement, paradoxically, be a reward to the authorities, who, in your words, may have resorted to political repression?

I do not think that this is a reward. The Ukrainian leadership and, of course, the people must make their own choices regarding their future. After all, we cannot stand up for an independent and democratic Ukraine more than the Ukrainians themselves. I think that in the long run it is in the interests of both Ukraine and Russia that this process of rapprochement between Eastern Europe and the rest of Europe continues.

In Russian media, you are portrayed as a ferocious hater of Russia and “the architect of the collapse of the USSR”. How do you feel about this image?

I have never been anti-Russian. Those Russians who know me know about it. I have always been an anti-Soviet, anti-Leninist and anti-Stalinist. I think that sensible Russians are increasingly sharing similar views. They do not hate Russia, but there is a realization that Russia experienced a terrible tragedy in the era of Stalinism.

Reference: Zbigniew Brzezinski was born 1928, in Warsaw. From 1977 to 1981 - Jimmy Carter's advisor to US President on national security issues. Brzezinski is considered one of the greatest geo-strategists and political thinkers of our time. He is a professor of international relations at Johns Hopkins University and an adviser to the Washington Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Originator:
http://www.dw.de/%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B-%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8F/s-9119
141 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 19 September 2013 09: 19
    16
    Well, about was not a Russian phobia - it was he who, of course, bent the little guy. To the extent that Russia interfered with the hegemony of the United States, Brzezinski was a consistent Russophobe. To the extent that Russia helped the hegemony of the United States, he was a consistent Russian philistine.
    He is right in saying that Ukraine is a welcome prize for the leadership of the Russian Federation. The unification of the Russian Federation, Belarus and U would be extremely promising ... But, alas, this prize in Russia will not get. At least in the near future.
    Regarding "successful European integration" - it depends on what you mean by it: if the fate of the Baltics, then Ukraine is likely to repeat it, if the fate of Poland, then it is unlikely. But personally, I have serious doubts that Europe will "digest" such a huge piece as Ukraine.
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 19 September 2013 09: 24
      29
      Ukrainian leadership ....


      F. Tyutchev

      Vain labor - no, you cannot expose them, -
      The more liberal, the more vulgar,
      Civilization is a fetish for them,
      But her idea is not available to them.

      As before her, do not bend, gentlemen,
      You do not get recognition from Europe:
      In her eyes you will always
      They are not servants of enlightenment, but servants.

      1867


      .... that today's rapprochement between Ukraine and Europe creates conditions conducive to the rapprochement between Russia and Europe.

      BEFORE. Rogozin spoke very well about the desire of Moldova to join the EU:
      "You should keep in mind that the association with the EU is not a sauna, but a dressing room, in which you have to work out the way you work out in a dressing room."


      “The European Union is not a rubber product that stretches for any length of time and in different directions,” Rogozin said. - Europe is experiencing great economic problems. Therefore, one should not deceive anyone that the signing of some papers with Brussels will immediately lead to some universal human happiness that will fall on those who simply sign this agreement. Not at all. The entry, or rather the signing, initiation of this document in association with the European Union - it is the right to be in the waiting room. This does not mean that you will be allowed to warm up in the sauna itself. Here in the waiting room you will, accordingly, prepare slippers to those who have the right to steam. To cover them with a terry blanket or coverlet, that is, in principle, this is such a service, the opportunity to participate in the service for the European Union. ”
      http://news.rambler.ru/20927871/


      I have never been anti-Russian.

      Of course not. This phenomenon is usually called Russophobia.
      1. Apologet.Ru
        Apologet.Ru 19 September 2013 10: 37
        +8
        hi
        Well-known American strategist (?) and political thinker (?) Zbigniew Brzezinski still believes that Russia and Ukraine will inevitably find themselves within the framework of a large Europe. He is confident that the rapprochement between Ukraine and the European Union will have a beneficial effect on Russia.

        Yeah, right now ...
        "A new world order with US hegemony is being created ... against Russia, at the expense of Russia and on the rubble of Russia" ...
        Z. Brzezinski. Giant Chessboard: America's Superiority and its Geostrategic Imperatives
        1. skeptic
          skeptic 19 September 2013 17: 10
          +6
          Quote: Apologet.Ru
          Russia suffered a terrible tragedy in the era of Stalinism

          Z. Brzezinski.

          In my opinion, Russia is worried much more tragedy - the Gorboelkin era and all its consequences. Much more destructive for the economy and associated with the many millions who prematurely left the citizens of the former USSR.
          1. skeptic
            skeptic 19 September 2013 17: 15
            0
            I apologize for the mistake of "attributing" to Apologet.Ru a quote from Brzezinski.
        2. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 19 September 2013 19: 59
          +1
          And -
          “... the three great responsibilities of the imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion between vassals and to maintain their dependence on general security, to keep subordinates submissive and to ensure their protection and to prevent the unification of barbarians ...
          1. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 19 September 2013 20: 05
            0
            And here are some more pearls of our "hero" -
            “Collaboration with Russia should be accompanied by simultaneous efforts to strengthen geopolitical pluralism within its former imperial space, which will put an insurmountable barrier to any attempts to restore the empire”

            "... For America, Russia is too weak to be its partner, but, as before, too strong to be just its patient ..."

            “... The long-term objective is this: how to support the democratic transformations in Russia and its economic recovery and at the same time prevent the revival of the Eurasian empire, which can interfere with the implementation of the American geostrategic goal of forming a larger Euro-Atlantic system, with which in the future, Russia could be firmly and reliably connected. ”
      2. T80UM1
        T80UM1 19 September 2013 12: 19
        +6
        Ukraine in the global confrontation is like Stalingrad in the Great Patriotic War, Ukraine is the key to a radical turning point in the course of the war (and now there is only a hidden war, the goal of this war is the destruction of Russia as such, only indirect actions) "Battle for Moscow" - preservation territorial integrity has been won, now there is a "battle for Stalingrad" - the restoration of lost territories. "Battle for Kursk" - will be a battle to restore the number of satellites around the world. And the "battle for Berlin" is the destruction of the United States.
      3. Reasonable, 2,3
        Reasonable, 2,3 19 September 2013 16: 37
        0
        B zezhinsky is asleep and sees how Russia is a khana. Not in your power SUCH a country.! Su ....!. Money will not help. And I personally "sorry far away", with s-5000 you would have cut !.
      4. Ascetic
        Ascetic 19 September 2013 19: 10
        +3
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Of course not. This phenomenon is usually called Russophobia.


        Well, like all hereditary haters of Russia and its peoples, he, as usual, is mildly cunning. His dad, Tadeusz Brzezinski, was also a diplomat of pre-war Polish Poland and a staunch ally of Hitler against the USSR. According to some information, it was Papa Zbigniew, who worked in Moscow in 1938, that contributed a lot to Warsaw’s refusal to give the Soviet troops access to help Prague after the Munich agreement to surrender to Czechoslovakia to Hitler.
        He constantly swears his love for Russia, though this is more likely the love of a pimple onanist for a young and healthy beauty who was obviously inaccessible to him. He is a kind of Kashchei, languishing over the Golden Rothschilds, trying to break the resistance of the stubborn beautiful Vasilisa - Russia. But as they say, you won’t throw words out of a song ... That's what he really says about the fate of Russia prepared by his masters

        “We destroyed the USSR, we will destroy Russia ... Russia is generally an extra country ... It is a defeated power. She lost the titanic struggle. And to say “it was not Russia, but the Soviet Union” means to flee from reality. It was Russia, called the Soviet Union. She challenged the USA. She was defeated. Now there is no need to fuel illusions about the great power of Russia. We must discourage such a way of thinking ... Russia will be fragmented and under guardianship ”

        He, the guru of US foreign policy, who, as a professor, shaped the views of his students Madeleine Albright and Condoleezza Rice, who later became heads of the Department of State, drew a peculiar motto on her banner, which all the presidents and secretaries of this country have been steadily following

        “A new world order under US hegemony is being created against Russia, at the expense of Russia and on the wreckage of Russia”.
    2. Crocodile
      Crocodile 19 September 2013 09: 27
      15
      Well, they don't know the flawed words - "brother, neighbor, friend, comrade" ...
      They measure by themselves - trophies, profit, income and wallet!
      Do they understand that almost every Russian has relatives in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other former republics of the USSR?
      That's just the leadership of Ukraine behaves as not remembering kinship! am
      1. ksan
        ksan 19 September 2013 23: 53
        0
        Crocodile SU Today, 09:27 ↑

        Well, they don't know the flawed words - "brother, neighbor, friend, comrade" ...
        They measure by themselves - trophies, profit, income and wallet!
        Do they understand that almost every Russian has relatives in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other former republics of the USSR?
        That's just the leadership of Ukraine behaves as not remembering kinship! am
        The leadership of Ukraine and the "elite" have long been "integrated into Europe" and the people (many) are zombified by the media with fables about the European paradise. And the other part, which is behind the vehicle, unfortunately does not have power. And Yanukovych seems to be asleep and sees Gorbachev's "laurels".
    3. Natalia
      Natalia 19 September 2013 09: 36
      +8
      Brzezinski still believes that Russia and Ukraine will inevitably be within the framework of a large Europe

      Such thinking and an attempt to bring it to life will lead to the fact that Europe will be in the framework of a large Russia. This has happened more than once in history.
      ... and Brzezinski ... this is just the opinion of one Pole who hates and fears Russia.
      1. Mairos
        Mairos 19 September 2013 12: 09
        +5
        The demographic situation among Russians .. If we do not fix it, then there will be NOTHING, even Russia in the form we represent it. In 50 years there will be an "Islamic-oriented", clan-based and completely corrupt (well, the Caucasus and Asia also sin) state, with a non-Islamic minority. I would not want my children and their children to live in SUCH Russia
        1. zennon
          zennon 19 September 2013 15: 29
          -2
          I would not want my children and their children to live in SUCH Russia

          But VVP wants. It is he, within the framework of the customs union, opened the door for Asians. They build up, give birth to "Russians" here, and in 20 years they will say "my homeland"! As for Brzezinski, I can’t wait until he dies!
        2. alone
          alone 19 September 2013 20: 49
          +1
          Quote: Mairos
          In 50 years there will be an "Islamic-oriented", clan-based and completely corrupt (well, the Caucasus and Asia also sin) state, with a non-Islamic minority. I would not want my children and their children to live in SUCH Russia


          Do you think corruption is committed only by Asia and the Caucasus? Everyone suffers from corruption. But the scale is different. In today's Russia, you will not surprise anyone with corruption.
    4. slacker
      slacker 19 September 2013 09: 44
      18
      Ukrainian leaders and their shadow masters have made their choice. Today Russia shouldn't throw pearls in front of these pigs. That's when ordinary people sip from the heart of an "equal" economic partnership with the European Union, then the pendulum of mood in Ukrainian society will swing in the opposite direction. At this moment, Russia should go out with its proposals to the deceived and robbed younger brother.
      In general, for hundreds of years Russia has successfully lived without Ukraine, and even today it clearly does not bend without the zapadentsev and farmers there. So to make some kind of symbol from Urkaina is not worth it. Time will put everything in its place.
      1. alexng
        alexng 19 September 2013 11: 51
        10
        If the bride went to another, then it is not known who was lucky. Classics hi
        1. Egen
          Egen 19 September 2013 12: 01
          0
          Quote: alexneg
          If the bride went to another, then it is not known who was lucky

          Exactly :) But does Russia need a headache with Ukraine? :)
          1. AVV
            AVV 19 September 2013 13: 44
            +5
            Let Ukraine have a headache, it is impossible to sit in two chairs with one seat, even how healthy it was !!!
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 13: 57
            -1
            Quote: Egen
            Exactly :) But does Russia need a headache with Ukraine? :)

            Humor, of course it’s humor, but if you follow this logic, then an elderly mother needs to be urgently taken to the cemetery. And no headache. From an economic point of view. But seriously, the people are alone, but it’s customary to fight for their own.
            1. zennon
              zennon 19 September 2013 15: 44
              +7
              But seriously, the people are alone, but it’s customary to fight for their own.

              The people are responsible for their leadership. They chose them. They are pursuing such a policy. We take for granted the bombing of Germany by our allies (I foresee disagreement, there were no protests from the Soviet leadership), the secession of vast territories from it, the expulsion of 11 million Germans from Hitler is to blame, because they chose him! Why should the people of Ukraine not be responsible for their leadership? By the way, when once again you see on television a drunken boar Yeltsin, acting as an orchestra to amuse the world, think about it WE they chose him! Not personally, and not personally many of those present here, but they chose ...
          3. ksan
            ksan 19 September 2013 23: 59
            0
            Egen RU Today, 12:01 ↑

            Quote: alexneg
            If the bride went to another, then it is not known who was lucky

            Exactly :) But does Russia need a headache with Ukraine? :)
            Ukraine's withdrawal "to the west" may turn into an even greater headache for Russia. This may turn into an American base in Sevastopol by joining NATO.
            1. Egen
              Egen 20 September 2013 06: 19
              +1
              Quote: ksan
              Ukraine's withdrawal "to the west" may turn into an even greater headache for Russia. This may turn into an American base in Sevastopol by joining NATO.

              You are right, maybe. If we give back Sevastopol. But I hope no one will do such stupidity. Historically, Crimea is in fact Tatar-Turkish, and before that Greek, UKRAINIANS did not smell on it, only Scythians. But the Russians repelled him, Moscow, but not Kiev at all.
              Yes, I also have relatives in Ukraine. And for me, the Ukrainian people are brothers. But how do you read what is going on there ... How does anyone imagine JOINING (exactly like in 1654)? Understandably, if there are contradictions and discrepancies between countries, this will be IMHO like this:
              - actually replacing the existing system and policies
              - will not do without political repression, let's say to the "new fascists"
              - most of the economy will go "under" Russian
              - the burden of social support for the population of Ukraine for several years will fall on Russian citizens.
              In the future, the unification will give an impetus and positive results, but the transitional years are darker than the "orange" ones provided. As a result, the life of the mass of the population will get better, but will the remaining minority agree with this now?
      2. MG42
        MG42 19 September 2013 13: 38
        +1
        Quote: Loafer
        In general, for hundreds of years Russia has successfully lived without Ukraine, and even today it clearly does not bend without the local zapadentsev and farmers

        Why did you decide that only zapadentsy and farmers live in Ukraine, and the industrial East, and Crimea? South of Ukraine?
        Quote: Loafer
        from when ordinary people sip from the heart of an "equal" economic partnership with the European Union, then the pendulum of mood in Ukrainian society will swing in the opposite direction. At this moment, Russia must go out with its proposals to the deceived and robbed younger brother

        It will be too late to drink "borjomi" when there is a kidney stone ..
        1. slacker
          slacker 19 September 2013 15: 44
          +5
          Answer for MG42
          Let us hypothetically assume that Ukraine in its current form from today has become not just a part of the CU, but has joined the Russian Federation.
          I suggest you answer my questions specifically at the "yes" or "no" level.
          1) The appearance among the population of expanded Russia of several million new citizens zombified by Ukrainian Nazism will strengthen the unity of Russian society or not?
          2) The appearance on the Russian domestic political scene of a large and quite active layer of Russophobic and anti-Russian-minded new citizens of the Russian Federation with the right to vote is a threat to the current government and relative stability in the Russian Federation or not?
          3) The appearance of this category of population can potentially contribute to the strengthening of separatist and anti-Russian forces in some areas of the Russian Federation such as the North Caucasus, Bashkiria and Tatarstan or not?
          4) Will the current pro-Western opposition parties and movements, with the appearance of a "Western party" in the domestic political arena, also strengthen or not?
          5) Can there be a danger of loosening or even collapse of the current model of Russia's development and a rollback to the turmoil of the early 90s when granting Russian citizenship to millions of Ukrainians who were not loyal to Russia and who were born and raised after the collapse of the USSR and soaked in years of Russophobic propaganda? Yes or no?
          6) Need to contain even more than 40 million citizens (salaries, pensions, benefits) due to stagnant incomes of the Russian budget, will improve the living standards of today's Russians or not?
          7) Does the need for Russia to take on payments of the state debt of Ukraine in the amount of 137 billion dollars will strengthen the Russian economy and its financial system or not?
          8) The need for almost instant multi-billion dollar investments in the change of government in the annexed Ukrainian regions, in the deployment of Russian army garrisons there (the formation and redeployment of new units there, the development of military towns, communication systems, housing, a barracks fund, etc.) with the parallel disbandment of Ukrainian military parts (housing for the dismissed Ukrainian military, pensions), at the same time transfer under the Russian arm of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, abolition of the Security Service of Ukraine, etc., taking under guard the new old state border, etc. - all this will positively affect the income of the Russian budget and the wallets of Russian citizens or not?
          9) Do you agree to reconcile with the actual freezing of salaries and pensions for many years and with cutting social and investment development programs in your region in order to direct these funds to the integration upgrade of the attached regions of Ukraine? Yes or no?
          10 ) The objective need for repressive measures against the most radical Russophobes from among yesterday’s Ukrainian citizens and the suppression of their anti-Russian activities in Ukraine and the Russian Federation will be favorably received by the public opinion of Western countries or not?
          11 ) Political and economic relations of Russia with the countries of the European Union and the USA after the accession of Ukraine will become better or not?

          Conclusion: Russia needs Russia, but not at any cost, and only when Ukraine itself is ripe for integration processes. Otherwise, the result will be the opposite of what was expected.
          1. MG42
            MG42 19 September 2013 16: 30
            +2
            Quote: Loafer
            I suggest you answer my questions specifically at the "yes" or "no" level.

            Questions are the same ..
            I do not see the possibility of annexing Lviv, Ternopil, Volyn, Ivano-Frankivsk, and other "zapadensky reserve" to Russia except as a forceful method. When Germany was united, were there any expenses, but then all the Germans won? as a German you need to know this ..
            here it is the section where the dark orange areas show the sympathy of the electorate does not change from election to election, although the population density there is certainly less than in the East and South, the western regions in their total mass are subsidized regions >>
            1. slacker
              slacker 19 September 2013 17: 05
              +9
              Dear MG42!
              Thank you for the card, but unfortunately, today it is impossible to divide Ukraine territorially according to its electoral and ethnic sympathies and antipathies.
              It is an internationally recognized state. Russia is the guarantor of the territorial integrity of Ukraine and will not return this territory to itself by military means.
              While living in Berlin, I can responsibly declare as an eyewitness that Ukraine will never become a member of the EU. And for the desire, together with Arabs and other Albanians, to become the next signatory to the Association Agreement with the European Union, she will pay with the physical death of most of her industry.
              Sadly, for the Ukrainians to see, they need to drink this cup to the bottom. Only then will they realize that carrots in front of the donkey's face can hang out forever. Let them look at the Turkish donkey as an example hi
              1. morpex
                morpex 19 September 2013 21: 22
                0
                Quote: Loafer
                Sadly, for the Ukrainians to see, they need to drink this cup to the bottom.

                That’s the fact of the matter, most Ukrainians, especially in the East, understand this now but cannot influence the situation. Yes, and the Russian government makes a mistake after a mistake. At first it lost the information war for the TS (it simply did not do the proper job of popularizing the TS), the trade war pushes Ukraine to cooperate with the EU even more and forms a negative attitude of a simple Ukrainian towards the CU.
                Ukraine and Russia will still cooperate, and there’s no getting anywhere else. And the trade war is pouring water onto the mill for those who are pulling Ukraine into the EU.
          2. Grbear
            Grbear 19 September 2013 16: 30
            +6
            As regrettable and not cynical as it sounds, Ukraine's "annexation" to Russia is currently not a boon for Russia. Putin's pragmatism in this situation is a "whipping of the prodigal son." It looks cynical in relation to the people, but it cannot be otherwise.

            It is possible to buy the elite, but then: "decontaminate the territory" from the Nazis; modernize industry, etc. (I completely agree with "loafer") and end up with a mentality like" You called, We came - feed. "

            Let everyone live their own lives, so that later they do not look for the guilty.
          3. ksan
            ksan 20 September 2013 00: 22
            0
            Conclusion: Russia needs Russia, but not at any cost, and only when Ukraine itself is ripe for integration processes. Otherwise, the result will be the opposite of what was expected.
            I agree with "Idle" Ruslan in the CONCLUSION. Russia has already lost this round, "staked" not on those. Let's hope that the "hungry European integration" will sober up Ukraine, and Russia will be more actively engaged in promoting its goals, "working" with the population with "candidates". And perhaps with the next change of power in Ukraine, the issue of the Customs Union will rise again.
            1. MG42
              MG42 20 September 2013 00: 39
              +2
              Quote: ksan
              Russia has already lost this round, "bet" on the wrong ones.

              Who did Russia bet on, if not secret?
              Quote: ksan
              Let's hope that "hungry European integration" will sober up Ukraine

              Hope dies last..
              Quote: ksan
              and Russia will be more active in promoting its goals, "work" with the population with "candidates"

              The summit in Vilnius is already in November 2013 of the year???
              Quote: ksan
              And perhaps with the next change of power in Ukraine, the issue of the TS will be raised again.

              And if you do not rise? There, the alignment is very muddy in the 2015 elections. Klitschko? so he’ll even run faster to the EU than Yanukovych, .. actually, like in your post there are a lot of quotes ..
            2. alexng
              alexng 20 September 2013 14: 20
              +1
              Quote: ksan
              I agree with "Idle" Ruslan in the CONCLUSION. Russia has already lost this round ...


              You are not right. Russia is playing a multi-way game in the geopolitical arena. There were subsidies from Russia to the Ukrainian economy and what is the answer? Or do you take the leadership of Russia for idiots and they will be constantly led by we brothers and the elder brother should feed his whole life, and in response to hear only a roar and discontent. Ukraine will not go anywhere from the submarine. The West behaves the same in this regard naively. The West made a fatal mistake that it entered the post-Soviet space - this will destroy it completely and irrevocably. Well, what did the Arab spring give to the West? Nothing but the riot of these countries. They wanted to cut Russia this way, but everything was back to square one, and now the old treaties and agreements in these countries with Russia are being resumed. In addition, these countries are turning away from the West itself. And Russia is now giving senility by the name of Ukraine to such an extent that this senility has become noticeable to their inspirers and organizers. And then on a kale ... Something like that. IHMO. hi
        2. slacker
          slacker 19 September 2013 16: 03
          +4
          Why did you decide that only zapadentsy and farmers live in Ukraine, and the industrial East, and Crimea? South of Ukraine?


          Do not distort. I did not claim that only zapadentsy and farmers live in Ukraine. And in general, dear MG42, it is not necessary to consider members of the forum, incl. and me, dumber than you.
          The problem is that the first fiddle in today's Ukrainian domestic and foreign policy is played by just zapadents, and by no means the industrial East, Crimea and South of Ukraine you mentioned.
          If you have examples of the fact that the voice of the population of these regions is taken into account by the Ukrainian authorities and really affects the policy of Ukraine in recent years, I ask you to voice these examples. They are unknown to me.
          Therefore, we must build on the realities of Ukrainian political life, and not rely on virtual fables.
          There is no real influential political force capable of defending the interests of the Russian part of Ukrainian society in today's Ukraine. Or can you name this power?
          1. MG42
            MG42 19 September 2013 16: 12
            0
            Quote: Loafer
            No need to consider the members of the forum, including and me, dumber than you.

            Where was it written on the fence? winked
            Quote: Loafer
            The problem is that the first fiddle in today's Ukrainian domestic and foreign policy is played by just zapadents, and by no means the industrial East, Crimea and South of Ukraine you mentioned

            Remember who chose Yanukovych, it’s not the Westerners, namely the East South and Crimea, now it is Donetsk brothers who rule in Kiev, and not only in Kiev, all the key positions of officials, prosecutors = Donetsk registration throughout Ukraine is welcome and there are people watching area ..
            Quote: Loafer
            Therefore, we must build on the realities of Ukrainian political life, and not rely on virtual fables.

            You apparently from Germany are better seen than to me from Ukraine .. wassat
            Quote: Loafer
            There is no real influential political force capable of defending the interests of the Russian part of Ukrainian society in today's Ukraine. Or can you name this power?

            I agree here, since the KPU nominally themselves sit on 2 chairs defending the interests of the pro-Russian working people in the Rada and at the same time in a coalition with the OL oligarchic party of power ..
            1. slacker
              slacker 19 September 2013 16: 55
              +9
              I will answer, starting with the penultimate paragraph. I was born in Ukraine, my relatives live there and therefore I am in my small homeland about 2 times a quarter stably. And believe in the word, the idea of ​​Ukrainian life is no less complete than yours.
              You voluntarily or involuntarily left the topic I touched on and replaced the concept of those who rule Ukraine with those who elected. We all remember and know that Yanukovych came to power in the voices of the East and South. But today, his voters are forgotten by him. He is essentially a servant of two masters - his masters-oligarchs and Western Ukrainian marginals. And while the activities of the Akhmetovs and other pinchuks are mostly secretive and behind the scenes, then the Western Russophobes set the tone for public, street, and media politics. Under the influence of this, the official Kuevian government took openly anti-Russian positions on most issues.
              And the growth of influence zapadentsev will continue. No one is counterattacking against them. In this situation, to say that someone from outside, such as Russia, should stand up for the Russian East and South is simply a recognition by the population of Russian-speaking areas of their powerlessness and defeat in front of the more aggressive and passionate west of Ukraine.
              As for Germany, I will say one thing. First, to sell goods to Ukraine at a low price, and then, as the Ukrainian producers are bankrupt and eliminated, more and more expensive, the Germans are ready with joy. Deflate Ukrainian resources, too. It is possible that a new impulse will survive the metallurgy of the first redistribution.
              But the Germans categorically do not want to accept Ukraine as EU members. The story of Greece, trembling in the knees, frightened the burghers with the prospect of sharing their money with Mediterranean loafers. The Germans do not need another 40 million Ukrainian parasites in any form, even if these parasites bury each other in the form of an SS. Therefore, for any chancellor, consent to the admission of Ukraine to the EU is a political death. But there are no fools among German politicians.
              1. MG42
                MG42 19 September 2013 17: 07
                +3
                I agree with this last comment. I’ll only add that just who left earlier in the EU, our emigrants also don’t want to see Ukraine, the army of competitors, here the Polish plumbers replaced the German ones, then the Romanians and the gypsies got into the EU with a trailer, etc.
                In the EU, unemployment is now "sickly" ... especially in southern Europe, as well as Spain
                Quote: Loafer
                But the Germans categorically do not want to accept Ukraine as EU members. Germans do not need another 40 million Ukrainian parasites

                Gazprom still has some informal leverage over joint projects ..
                1. MG42
                  MG42 19 September 2013 23: 48
                  +2
                  In general, if you briefly analyze your posts, slacker Ruslan, then Russia does not need Ukraine, which is supposedly very expensive for the Russian budget, and the EU does not need Ukraine because it has its own problems, and specifically you, the newly-minted German in Germany, do not need competitors ex compatriots from Ukraine there in Germany .. bully In short, let it be cooked in your own <d.u.c.m.e.>? ..
    5. Rattenfanger
      Rattenfanger 19 September 2013 10: 03
      +2
      Quote: serge-68-68
      To the extent that Russia interfered with the hegemony of the United States, Brzezinski was a consistent Russophobe. To the extent that Russia helped the hegemony of the United States, he was a consistent Russian philistine.

      Personal hostility to everything that is connected with Russia has always dominated the actions of this type: for example, as I didn’t fight, I could not understand how the United States would have benefited from the collapse of Russia by several states territorial entities? China yes, Japan yes, Europe yes. But the States, apart from personally received by Pan Zbigniew and others like him "feelings of deep moral satisfaction", what do they get? Quite right, there are a lot of problems with the sharply intensified countries of the Pacific region and the United Europe, making a sharp leap on "steroids" (resources of the former USSR / RF) and beginning to pursue an independent policy that runs counter to the idea of ​​Pax America.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 19 September 2013 10: 19
        +3
        Quote: Rattenfanger
        But the States, apart from personally received by Pan Zbigniew and others like him "feelings of deep moral satisfaction", what do they get? Quite right, there are a lot of problems with the sharply intensified countries of the Pacific region and the United Europe, making a sharp leap on "steroids" (resources of the former USSR / RF) and beginning to pursue an independent policy that runs counter to the idea of ​​Pax America.

        Well, how small are you, the states will get everything. Tell me which country in Europe they do not control? And the resources will not change anything, they will control pieces of Russia in the same way as Europe, and in the end they will get all the tasty things, and, well, a little of their vassals.
        1. drop
          drop 19 September 2013 14: 13
          0
          You are right from my point of view. The United States tried to disintegrate still Tsarist Russia, then Soviet Russia in 1919. The United States, in my opinion, only once supported the USSR, this is December 10 of 1941 of the year, on this day they warned Finland that if they do not stop attacking on the Karelian front, the USA will declare war on Finland. Immediately hostilities in the north by the Finns ceased. The Supreme Commander-in-Chief Stalin was then able to carry out a partial regrouping of troops. A drop
        2. Rattenfanger
          Rattenfanger 19 September 2013 18: 52
          -1
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Well, how small are you

          Ooty Hospadi!))) Explain to me, not too distant, "big uncle", with what fright France or Germany, who received (God forbid!) Our human and natural resources will allow the pin_dos to continue to make themselves an appendage of the United States? Today's state control of Europe is a consequence of the Marshall Plan (i.e. economic dependence) and the bogey of the Red Menace (the Russians will come and everyone will be driven into collective farms). The USSR does not scare Geyropa now, the economic stranglehold remains. Having received a couple of aces in their sleeves, the Europeans are unlikely to tolerate their leading position, and further, there will be no leverage over them.
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 19 September 2013 19: 43
            -1
            Quote: Rattenfanger
            from what fright France or Germany, having received (God forbid!) our human and natural resources will continue to give pin_ dos to make themselves an appendage of the USA?

            Do you really think that the lack of resources prevents you from lagging behind Europe? request Well then I don’t know.
    6. Tersky
      Tersky 19 September 2013 11: 27
      +6
      Quote: serge-68-68
      But, alas, this prize of Russia will not get. At least in the near future.

      As a matter of fact, the "prize" from his lips sounds like a mockery, a kind of grandfather at the hippodrome who is trying to be a jockey on an old nag. The old toadstool simply drives wedges on the knurled where it can, as it can, and with what it can. Ultimately, the "prize" will find its owner, and inside his own barn ... Paradoxical hatred of Russia-
    7. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 19 September 2013 16: 34
      0
      The word "Trophy" is intentional. The EU is to new horizons. You have a khan's economy. Think about yourself. Besides Russia, you don’t have an ally. Will you eat doshirak?!.
    8. duke
      duke 19 September 2013 17: 49
      +1
      for Russia Ukraine cannot be a prize, this is a prize for the USA and Europe, its people cannot be a prize for us, it is a prize only for a predator who has torn his piece from one people ...
      Poland once tried to digest, they created a supposedly special language and supposedly a special nation, but the people fell under the banners of Khmelnytsky ...
    9. user
      user 19 September 2013 17: 57
      -1
      I have always been anti-Soviet, anti-Leninist and anti-Stalinist. I think that sane Russians increasingly share similar views. They don’t hate Russia,

      Yes, to some extent he is right. Listen to what our liberals say, including advisers to the Prime Minister and especially those related to the Higher School of Economics. Unfortunately, many hold high government posts. Although it’s not yet evening. .
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 18: 19
        +2
        Leninist politics is very different from Stalinist. And you raked everything in one pile. Still, they would call themselves anti-monarchist
    10. ksan
      ksan 19 September 2013 23: 34
      0
      serge-68-68 RU Today, 09: 19

      Well, about was not a Russian phobia - it was he who, of course, bent the little guy. To the extent that Russia interfered with the hegemony of the United States, Brzezinski was a consistent Russophobe. To the extent that Russia helped the hegemony of the United States, he was a consistent Russian philistine.
      He is right in saying that Ukraine is a welcome prize for the leadership of the Russian Federation. The unification of the Russian Federation, Belarus and U would be extremely promising ... But, alas, this prize in Russia will not get. At least in the near future.
      As for Brzezinski, I agree, then another fruit wink And as for Ukraine, there are chances, I think, after the next elections in 2015. Let me explain: Ukraine will enter an FTA with the EU, this is a resolved issue. The economic situation in Ukraine will deteriorate noticeably, the EU or the IMF are unlikely to "pull" it out of bankruptcy. With a properly structured foreign policy, work with the media (agitation), and work with a "pro-Russian" opposition, Russia has every chance of bringing it to power by 2015. "their" candidate and tune public opinion in favor of the TS.
    11. renics
      renics April 12 2014 14: 22
      0
      (But personally, I have serious doubts that Europe will "digest" such a huge piece as Ukraine.) And in vain, the Ukrainian scenario is just the creation of a hotbed of tension directly on the border with Russia, or even better, a civil war that could spill over to the Russian territory. By doing this, they seek to destabilize the situation in the entire geopolitical space of Russia and to exclude it from the big world politics. Well, if nothing works out, then they will immediately forget, shifting the restoration of Ukraine onto the shoulders of Russia.
  2. Pit
    Pit 19 September 2013 09: 21
    10
    He is confident that the rapprochement between Ukraine and the European Union will have a beneficial effect on Russia.

    Further reading makes no sense.
    This man has sold out for a long time and his opinion reflects the aspirations of a very small group of "little people" as not connected with the population of the planet, let alone some kind of taken country. Rapprochement of Ukraine with Europe will lead to the destruction of the first. And the rapprochement of Russia with Europe will lead to the extermination of the Russian nation and the dismantling of humanity.
    In the final, there will remain a handful of favorites and a herd of biorobots to serve the first.
    1. Crocodile
      Crocodile 19 September 2013 09: 30
      +1
      It does not reach the damaged - Russia is not along the way with them!
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 19 September 2013 09: 45
      +4
      Quote: Pit
      This person has long been sold

      Only someone who initially has something to sell can sell.
      No. He is a foster farmer of anti-Russian politics, a protege of Russophobic rhetoric.
      And he receives money for absolutely honestly and sincerely done work, the work of the enemy of Russia. Do not expect more from him and hope for enlightenment.
      His words about the situation in Syria and his attitude to the forceful solution of the Syrian issue is just his personal experience for his beloved country. He understands the bastard that they are waiting for payment for all shed blood, for all shed tears.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 September 2013 09: 24
    +7
    Europe is degrading before our eyes ... in all respects .. You need to run away from it, and Ukraine is like fresh blood in intensive care for them .. (which will only prolong the agony of the old woman of Europe.)
  5. Boris55
    Boris55 19 September 2013 09: 24
    +6
    Why a trophy of Russia? This west wants to tear it from Russia.
  6. klimpopov
    klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 26
    +3
    In fact, nothing is even hidden there. It is clear that its essence is in an attempt to conquer the post-Soviet countries that are independent today, one after another. Ukraine in this context is the most desirable "trophy", and I think that the Russians are determined to subjugate it. In fact, the question is whether Ukrainians are ready to defend their independence? Therefore, the Ukrainians themselves must determine whether they will again be a province within the composition of the greater Russia.

    Well, it's funny! Well, who is going to subordinate whom? The United States wants to subjugate this, but we want a strong alliance that can click on the nose of those who are especially presumptuous and that it would be good for us to live. Rave. Bhiza does not understand that our mentality is different. And the separation of Ukraine and Belarus in the years known to everyone is, it's like cutting out the kidneys from Bzhiza. Can it be normal without vital organs? It's my opinion. Ready for discussions.
    And yes, I am not against the self-determination of Ukrainians, but just let the government first ask what the Ukrainians themselves want.
    But again, this is the bell tower of Bzhiza and he looks from it. In any case, I always read it with tenderness.
    And I’ll add a pop about the fact that before we call on Ukraine we need to restore order, I don’t argue it’s time to restore order, but what does it happen when we are good and attractive, then we are with you and when it’s not so good where are we where the ass warmer? It’s not fair, at least.
    1. Crocodile
      Crocodile 19 September 2013 09: 35
      0
      Unfortunately in Ukraine, opinions were split in half ...
      Here would take a break, but think ... but time, unfortunately does not allow!
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 43
        +2
        Time never allows. So we come to the question that Ukraine consists of two parts and the opinion of the population proves this. No matter how much they say that Ukraine is intact and not divisible, this is not so. Agree with me? So how to take into account the interests of both halves of the population? If the East industrialized as such remained, then without Russia he would have nothing to do in the EU and would not have a choice, but unfortunately the industry of Ukraine is going through hard times (to put it mildly), respectively, the voice of the East no longer seems so important for the leadership , in my humble opinion, Ukraine’s accession to the EU is the first step towards the separation of Ukraine. Again my opinion.
  7. demeen1
    demeen1 19 September 2013 09: 28
    -14 qualifying.
    These Russians, together with the Bzheziski, should be put to the wall.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 19 September 2013 09: 54
      +3
      Quote: demeen1
      These Russians, together with the Bzheziski, should be put to the wall.

      And what about "these Russians"? Or everyone, without exception? Please explain. And then so, in neponyatkah it is possible to hang the "putters" for the causal place.
      1. demeen1
        demeen1 19 September 2013 10: 28
        -4
        Those Russians who know me know this. I've always been anti-Soviet
        1. Ljubomir
          Ljubomir 19 September 2013 11: 15
          +2
          Those Russians who know me know this. I've always been anti-Soviet
          That they swooped down on a man. These are the words of the bzhizik from the article. It just doesn't know how to copy demeen1 correctly. demeen1 wanted to say that it is necessary to shoot those "Russians" who know and agree with the bzhiz.
          1. demeen1
            demeen1 19 September 2013 11: 55
            +7
            Thank you, you're right, I meant who I personally know
            1. Garrin
              Garrin 19 September 2013 12: 13
              +2
              Quote: demeen1
              Thank you, you're right, I meant who I personally know

              Now it is clear. I compensate for my "minus", "plus". But, henceforth, try to express your thoughts more clearly.
          2. knn54
            knn54 19 September 2013 16: 03
            +2
            -Lubomir: it is necessary to shoot those "Russians" who know and agree with the bzhiz.
            Brzezinski, the enemy, but a brilliant enemy. All he says is an attempt to set the right direction in politics, not truth. He has a hysteria that he can not do anything, although he knows how to.
            And the Kremlin is doing everything for Ukraine to choose the European vector. It seems that Putin’s advisers do not have information about the situation in Ukraine at all. Attempts to prevent European integration are completely unsuccessful. Everything that the Russian Federation does only reduces the number of supporters of the Russian World in Ukraine.
            Ambassador Zurabov ONLY cares about buying up Ukrainian business assets by Russian business. And who will like it.
            You can try the following for Putin: to distribute Russian passports (as Romanians do with us) to everyone, to establish ECONOMIC barriers to the products of opponents of integration with the vehicle (within the framework of WTO laws), free movement and social guarantees for Russian citizens of Ukraine ...
            PS ... Together with Ukraine, Russia will be a serious economic, industrial player. Without Ukraine, the revival of Russia as an industrial power is very difficult, ”Popov emphasized. As you know, RISI provides analytics and recommendations for President Vladimir Putin, the State Duma, the Federation Council and the Security Council of the Russian Federation.
            More: Without Ukraine, the revival of Russia is impossible, - Putin's analysthttp: //censor.net.ua/news/249328/bez_ukrainy_vozrojdenie_rossii_nevozmojno
            _analitik_putina
    2. Homo
      Homo 19 September 2013 09: 58
      0
      You do not rush such words. Or expand the idea that you would be clear or read the Criminal Code!
    3. DJEIN8
      DJEIN8 19 September 2013 10: 00
      +4
      demeen1 09:28 ... What place are you in now ...? There are strong deadbolt locks ..?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 19 September 2013 10: 20
        +2
        Quote: DJEIN8
        Where are you now ...? There are strong deadbolt locks ..?

        Under the bed.
    4. Russkiy_Prapor
      Russkiy_Prapor 19 September 2013 10: 33
      +1
      Quote: demeen1
      These Russians, together with the Bzheziski, should be put to the wall.

      Are you a dreamer, a science fiction writer or just hate everyone? In any case, you are not the first to want to shoot Russian, but history shows that such aggressors usually die by one of the most unpleasant images: violent death, moreover, at the hands of Russians. I saw such shooters here: you start to cut and all the warlike fervor disappears somewhere, the Geneva Convention is immediately remembered about human rights.
      1. eplewke
        eplewke 19 September 2013 11: 50
        +1
        Got a man! As if a rake in the anus were not stuffed, I would be more careful with such words.
        1. T80UM1
          T80UM1 19 September 2013 12: 28
          +1
          he forgot to put quotes, quoted the text that attacked that?
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 19 September 2013 12: 40
            +3
            Quote: T80UM1
            he forgot to put quotes, quoted the text that attacked that?

            On the VO, the commas between "execute can not be pardoned" must be placed clearly, the people are tough, they do not forgive mistakes. smile wink
    5. Essenger
      Essenger 19 September 2013 12: 46
      +3
      Quote: demeen1
      These Russians, together with the Bzheziski, should be put to the wall.


      I understand your idea, but for anyone no one needs to go to the wall. Everyone has their own opinion, must be respected. In truth, no one has a monopoly.
      1. alone
        alone 19 September 2013 20: 56
        +3
        Quote: Essenger
        I understand your idea, but for anyone no one needs to go to the wall. Everyone has their own opinion, must be respected. In truth, no one has a monopoly.


        some comrades from the site think that everyone should think the same way here. like robots
  8. Storm
    Storm 19 September 2013 09: 31
    10
    Old fox. So he admitted that Russophobe. Now he says that he is an anti-Stalinist and anti-Leninist, and earlier in an interview he said that there was no need to deceive anyone, we supposedly fought not with communism, but with Russia, which was simply called the USSR. It’s just that now it’s more profitable to take a different position, and that's the corresponding rhetoric. In what - in what, and in the ability to streamline the talk you will not refuse him.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 37
      +3
      Goebels School - if you know what I mean.
      I can expand the idea if necessary.
    2. eplewke
      eplewke 19 September 2013 11: 51
      0
      In the furnace of such analysts! Brzezinski in one word. The sand is already pouring, but all the same there - Russia to panos!
      1. Walking
        Walking 19 September 2013 15: 08
        +1
        It’s bad, of course, to say that, but Brzezinski was healed in this world.
  9. patriot2
    patriot2 19 September 2013 09: 38
    +3
    Poor Ukraine, they will not be happy with the European Union, they will suck and rob in full. recourse
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 44
      +3
      Why rob something? 20 years rob (and Russia too) really something else remains?
      1. Pit
        Pit 19 September 2013 11: 33
        +1
        Quote: klimpopov
        is there anything else left?

        Gene pool and workers who want to work. They need these guest workers, since they brought Arabs, and they don’t know what to do with them. To expel, so the local liberal will immediately start to stink, but there is not enough money to pay benefits. So we need those who will work. Bonus, beautiful prostitutes and housekeepers, and if you're lucky, then 2 in 1.
        And there are many children who can be raised in their own image and likeness.
        Sad perspective
  10. hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 19 September 2013 09: 38
    +1
    I wonder how the people of Ukraine will make a choice? If there is no referendum, and without money, there are no fools to go out to demonstrate.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 50
      +2
      That's just the point that they will not give to choose. Why not go to the demonstrations? But it smells like a civil war, and then the presence of interventionists cannot be avoided, and in my opinion let it be Russia then.
      Well, an alarming perspective has emerged, but this is just one of the worst-case scenarios.
    2. demeen1
      demeen1 19 September 2013 09: 53
      0
      But the fate of the homeland is worth more than money. This is where you got such shit not in the swamp area.
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 59
        +4
        Got it! recourse If for the money for demonstrations, then in the furnace such demonstrations.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. Cpa
    Cpa 19 September 2013 09: 43
    +4
    A cunning singer, who started singing about rapprochement with Russia. If they wanted rapprochement, they would not need mediators in the person of Ukraine. It is not difficult to guess what Ukraine needs in order to approach. Poland has already developed such a symbol of friendship.
  13. patriot2
    patriot2 19 September 2013 09: 44
    +3
    A little flattery, a little lie - and you are already a politician Brzezinski. The main thing is to get into the stream and choose a reliable "roof".
  14. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 19 September 2013 09: 49
    +3
    Zbigniew Brzezinski example of how a wolf can dress up in sheep's clothing. activities were aimed at the destruction of the USSR. And in our time, his activities are aimed at weakening Russia. His ideological routines about the "charms" of Ukraine's entry into association with the European Union are nothing more than a desire to tear this country away from Russia. And the current leaders of Ukraine help him a lot. But the future will show what benefits the Ukrainian people will receive from entering the European hole.
  15. Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 19 September 2013 09: 54
    +4
    The bestial, undisguised hatred of everything Russian (Soviet, Russian) is the credo of Vzbzdezhinsky. Pshek, what do you take from him ...
  16. nsws3
    nsws3 19 September 2013 10: 00
    +5
    When will this old senile play in a box ?! They have been waiting there for a long time !!!
  17. Belogor
    Belogor 19 September 2013 10: 07
    +2
    The Pole Brzezinski cannot but be a Russophobe, by definition. Whatever he says otherwise, all lies and hypocrisy.
  18. waisson
    waisson 19 September 2013 10: 11
    +2
    I THINK THAT HE IS A SUCCESSFUL ACQUISITION OF AMERUS THERE WOULD THEY NOT BUY AND ACQUIRE WHICH OF OUR HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENDERS
  19. Bigriver
    Bigriver 19 September 2013 10: 12
    +4
    Against reality - no arguing :(
    Ukrainians, it seems, are now experiencing our Russian period of illusions in the mid-90s. When it seemed that just a touch of the Western world would make our economy advanced and life more satisfying.
    The reality is tougher - the division of labor has developed in the world and there is overproduction. And there are no free niches for Ukrainian products of deep processing. But you need cheap labor and a new consumer market.
    With the driving force of integration, the power of Ukraine - everything is clear. It is not clear why in this country there is no one to explain simple things to the people.
    We, citizens of the Russian Federation, are of course still teenagers and youth. But, Ukrainians, it turns out that children are thoughtless.
  20. Garrin
    Garrin 19 September 2013 10: 26
    +2
    It is quite obvious that its essence lies in an attempt to conquer one after another the post-Soviet countries independent today. Ukraine in this context is the most coveted “trophy”, and I think that the Russians are determined to subjugate it.

    I absolutely cannot imagine Ukraine as a "trophy". And if we are to use Brzezinski's terminology, so far only Ukraine has had "trophies" from Russia in the form of the Crimea and the southeastern industrial regions.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver 19 September 2013 10: 34
      +1
      Quote: Garrin

      I can’t imagine Ukraine at all. "trophy"... And if we are to use Brzezinski's terminology, so far only Ukraine has had "trophies" from Russia in the form of the Crimea and the southeastern industrial regions.

      Good point.
      Each of Mr. Bzhy's speeches is a fragment of a larger brain-processing campaign. About the "province" as part of the Russian Federation - there too.
      When was Ukraine a province for the USSR?
  21. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 September 2013 10: 37
    +1
    Quote: patriot2
    A little flattery, a little lie - and you are already a politician Brzezinski. The main thing is to get into the stream and choose a reliable "roof".

    To the point said! I also noticed how the haters of Russia abruptly changed their tone .. And the Bzezhinsky old fox still holds his nose in the wind .. (you look soon become an ardent defender of Russia)))
  22. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 19 September 2013 10: 42
    +6
    Zbyshek and in the next world will remain the same - a flattering liar, strictly pursuing a policy of destroying Russian statehood.
    "The ashes of Claes are knocking at my heart" (Till Ulenschnigel). For Zbigniew, this is the ashes of the Commonwealth, which, despite all the right-wing (but more shamelessly disenfranchised) attempts, was never able to become the center of the Slavic lands.
  23. Strashila
    Strashila 19 September 2013 10: 43
    0
    Ukraine needs the EU, like an umbrella to fish ... but all out of harm. The Ukrainian elite is acting in spite "there should have been the word contemptuous naming of a resident of Moscow, Russia" (his system did not miss, replaced by ... pits) ... traction is not enough to see what happened to the former countries of the social camp ... what is left of them ... more important to them their loot is satisfied with the status of puppets, so that the loot is not touched in Western banks and real estate in the West ... although our elite is the same ... offer, rush and crush each other will be in loyal impulses in front of the West.
  24. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 19 September 2013 10: 48
    0
    Ukraine is a part of our country, therefore, by definition, it cannot be a "trophy" for us. For the EU, yes, a trophy. A candidate on a par with Cyprus, Greece, etc.
  25. Bezarius
    Bezarius 19 September 2013 10: 50
    +1
    All the time, our enemies have been declaring that from Ukraine we are looking for profit, etc., etc. ... But what is remarkable, has never been indicated what kind of benefit it is? In my opinion, economically this is definitely not profitable. Ukraine is still in the 90's. And instead of modernizing our country, we would have to solve problems in Ukraine, since they cannot be ignored. Political and geostrategic findings? Well, they probably are, but do they outweigh the economic costs?
    1. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 19 September 2013 12: 04
      +2
      Quote: Bezarius
      that from Ukraine we are looking for benefits and so on and so forth ... But what is remarkable is that it has never been indicated what kind of benefit it is?

      The same as for Europeans.
      -sales market
      -rab power instead of Tajiks
      Well, + kovsemu, peace on the western borders.
      Quote: Bezarius
      instead of modernizing their country, they would solve problems in Ukraine

      What specific problems will be solved in Ukraine, instead of modernizing Russia? I'm just curious. It’s easy to write taoke, but I would like it more precisely.
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 19 September 2013 13: 28
        +3
        Quote: zmey_gadukin
        The same as for Europeans.
        -sales market
        -rab power instead of Tajiks
        Well, + kovsemu, peace on the western borders.


        I recommend to get acquainted with the "experience" of Bulgaria:

        Bulgaria is a country that joined the European Union. How has the situation changed? Do you feel like Europeans?

        Yes, we entered the European Union, only the European Union did not enter us. We still have the same corrupt government, the same corrupt officials multiplied by stringent regulations, rules, and EU practices. We were destroyed, crushed by the European Union. Yes, they give us some tranches for development, but nobody knows where this money goes. Everything settles in the pockets of officials, and even if it reaches somewhere, it’s only for “their” and “their” projects. If you do not have a “roof” in the state administration, your business is doomed.

        http://peopleandcountries.com/thread-7054-1-1.html
        article good
        1. MG42
          MG42 19 September 2013 13: 45
          +2
          Before joining the EU in 2007, Bulgaria became a member of NATO in 2004.
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 19 September 2013 14: 05
            0
            Quote: MG42
            Before joining the EU in 2007, Bulgaria became a member of NATO in 2004.


            yes, I looked at the composition of the Armed Forces of Bulgaria, on the 90% of the USSR, that the tanks are t-72, that the Migi aircraft, and yes, the second-hand 3 of the Belgian frigate
          2. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 19 September 2013 15: 52
            0
            for membership in Ukraine’s NATO, too, it was not)))
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 19 September 2013 14: 51
          0
          The Bulgarians in RuNet are not a rare occurrence, unlike the same Serbs or Poles, so I have a friend from there, according to her, the EU did not get anything at all.
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 19 September 2013 15: 24
            0
            Quote: Avenger711
            The Bulgarians in RuNet are not a rare occurrence, unlike the same Serbs or Poles, so I have a friend from there, according to her, the EU did not get anything at all.


            no, well, that’s understandable, Ukraine is not Bulgaria, you’ll have many times better,
        3. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 19 September 2013 15: 49
          +2
          But what does Bulgaria have to do with it?
          The comrade asked what kind of benefit, I answered him))

          However, if you argue about the advantages or disadvantages, then my opinion is that if you join the EU, then only after the complete modernization of Ukraine. And this will not happen for years ... hmm, I don’t even know how much. But the minimum is 10. So all European aspirations are zilch and dust in the eyes.
  26. Mhpv
    Mhpv 19 September 2013 10: 53
    0
    The Association is far from membership and there are no guarantees to become an equal partner, so you shouldn’t be so excited about this. It’s just another concubine in the EU harem. So, Russia still does not lose anything, and perhaps it will also benefit the Ukrainian the goods will be replaced by goods from the TS - a holy place does not happen.
  27. Misantrop
    Misantrop 19 September 2013 10: 58
    +6
    Quote: mhpv
    This is just another concubine in the EU harem

    Alas, not everything is so rosy. The concept of "concubine" implies a certain consistency, but here it looks more like a whore on a call ... request
  28. serge
    serge 19 September 2013 11: 04
    +1
    Ukraine is not a trophy, but a temporarily torn away part of Russia. And the most coveted trophy of Russia is the USA.
  29. pa_nik
    pa_nik 19 September 2013 11: 10
    +1
    The old Jew uses his old trick again. Namely, it presents the situation in such a way that those for whom this "message" is intended, would think: "And what am I, really. Everything is wrong with me. Zbig is right!" And let's carry out the plan of a member of the Politburo, regardless and not counting the cost of forces and resources. I think that ours are doing everything right (otherwise they tried wink failed). Do not crush the whole mass. Let the little brothers self-determine, decide what is best for them. good And then... winked will be what will be.
  30. Igarr
    Igarr 19 September 2013 11: 17
    +2
    Zbyshek .... Brzezinski ..
    I got it, to be honest. Damn, from my very youth I only hear about him.
    "..Russia is isolated and ... sandwiched between a united Europe and a power-building China ..."
    You can fucking ...is it a political thinker???
    Ukraine alone will be a little smaller than this whole united Europe.
    Ukraine and Belarus are a little smaller than China.
    And Russia ... was 1/6 of the land. Now, maybe 1/7 part.
    And China ... as it was building up power, it will continue to increase. Another 10 LI. Or years. And one fig - without us it will not increase.
    In short - He is senile. Our little one.
    I suspect I'm not a genius either. But at least I express my crap only here, in VO.
    ..
    ".. Nobody can be trusted, Stirlitz. Nobody.
    .... I can! .. "(C), character Müller," 17 Moments of Spring ", Yu. Semenov.
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 19 September 2013 11: 56
      -4
      Not even funny ...
      I'm talking about the square. Although this is a very strange way of comparing states. But if it started, then you are 2. in geography. You will be surprised, but Denmark alone is much larger than Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic states combined.
      I will not say anything about China - it's boring ...
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 19 September 2013 12: 26
        +1
        Here it is not necessary to be clever ..
        Greenland will also be taken into account, eh, geographer?
        Stupidly ... to fit in with academic amendments.
      2. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 19 September 2013 12: 32
        +6
        Quote: nikcris
        then in geography you - 2. You will be surprised, but Denmark alone is much larger than Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic states combined.
        I will not say anything about China - it's boring ...


        That recently one "lady from Amsterdam" claimed that Russia is not a maritime power ... Such a suspicion that you were skipping geography for a couple ... laughing
  31. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 19 September 2013 11: 25
    0
    The goal of the collapse of the USSR has been achieved, now the character has started a song about "closer Russian - European relations." Even a moron understands that this Euro-Russian close relationship is necessary ... exclusively for the fight with China. And while we are listening to these songs, they calmly incline us to everything they need and absolutely unnecessary to us.
  32. andruha70
    andruha70 19 September 2013 11: 33
    +2
    but the real question is whether the Ukrainians are ready to defend their independence?
    Yes, how much is it possible? what independence? whom from whom? show me at least one INDEPENDENT former SSR? the only independence among the ruling elites of these SSRs is from their people.
    I have never been anti-Russian. Those Russians who know me know this. I have always been anti-Soviet, anti-Leninist and anti-Stalinist.
    Well, not at all anti-Russian configured ... lol
    Reference: Zbigniew Brzezinski was born in Warsaw in 1928.
    here zhezh tenacious bitch am
  33. major071
    major071 19 September 2013 12: 02
    +5
    Ukraine is integrating into the EU, then Poland is "integrated" into Ukraine. No matter what Mr. Bzezhinsky says, but Western Ukraine in Poland is considered their territory, illegally taken from them by the Russians. And in an interview, you can say anything.
  34. Semurg
    Semurg 19 September 2013 12: 07
    +4
    It is interesting in the topic about Ukraine and Russia there are no comments from Ukraine, probably already tired of arguing? or waved a hand, or had not reached work early laughing
  35. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 19 September 2013 12: 27
    +1
    If Kiev in the future successfully passes the path of European integration, how can this be perceived by the Russian population and elites and reflect on the Kremlin doctrine of the “Russian world” to which Ukraine also belongs to Moscow?

    I think the Kremlin is trying to revive a fading doctrine.

    Here .. offal, already wrote off the Russian world.
    In fact, the question is whether the Ukrainians are ready to defend their independence? Therefore, Ukrainians themselves must determine whether they will again be a province within the larger Russia.

    At least before, it was the richest province. What province it will become part of Europe is already evident in some. She will get at least for her Russianness.
    I think that in the distant future it is in the interests of both Ukraine and Russia, so that this process of rapprochement of the East of Europe with the rest of Europe continues.

    Never a process, as they understand it, can cause interest. Only threats to our independence came from Europe, now the same thing is only without war so far.
    I have never been anti-Russian.

    Top hypocrisy, just no words angry .
  36. Druid
    Druid 19 September 2013 12: 34
    0
    This paragraph says everything and there is no lie, an objective vision of the situation and no more:
    "Moscow emphasizes that the Customs Union is primarily an economy. How much politics do you think this project is hiding?

    In fact, nothing is even hiding there. It’s clear that its essence lies in trying
    a) conquer one after another the independent post-Soviet countries today.
    b) Ukraine in this context is the most coveted “trophy”,
    and I think that the Russians are determined to subjugate it. In fact, the question is
    c) are Ukrainians ready to defend their independence?
    therefore
    d) the Ukrainians themselves must determine whether they should again be a province within a larger Russia. "
    In short, for Ukraine the question is simply "To be or not to be?" and much depends on its choice in the former Soviet space, if the Ukrainians fall under the Russian Federation, it will be hard, so "we will see."
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 19 September 2013 18: 01
      0
      Quote: Druid
      In short, for Ukraine the question is simply "To be or not to be?""and much depends on her choice

      Naturally. Especially considering that in fact the question is somewhat different: "Under whom to lie?" As a "rich bride", Ukraine has managed to whistle for 20 years almost all of its "dowry" and now the choice is very simple: get married or become a whore. Shalava gets more, but this money is one-time. And the status is somewhat different winked
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 19 September 2013 18: 10
        +4
        Quote: Misantrop
        : "Under whom to lie?" As a "rich bride", Ukraine has managed to whistle for 20 years almost all of its "dowry" and now the choice is very simple: get married or become a whore. Shalava gets more, but this money is one-time. And the status is somewhat different


        I would rather not be able to give a definition ...
        hi
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 20 September 2013 00: 01
          +1
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          I would rather not be able to give a definition ...

          It seems that this definition is very disliked by those who imagine Ukraine as a sort of "European macho" (gigolo, to put it simply). But there are no other arguments besides naked show-off and hungry saliva, otherwise they would have voiced ... request
  37. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 19 September 2013 12: 42
    +1
    It started der_mo through the pipes laughing
    John McCain's appeal to Russian citizens
    http://warfiles.ru/show-38971-obraschenie-dzhona-makkeyna-k-rossiyskim-grazhdana
    m.html
  38. Essenger
    Essenger 19 September 2013 12: 48
    +3
    I always listen with interest and read his thoughts. Truly a great expert.
  39. Druid
    Druid 19 September 2013 13: 03
    0
    Article in Inosmi http://www.inosmi.ru/world/20130919/213102762.html
    Original http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2013/09/18/6998227/ in Ukrainian.

    Quote: “The institutional, cultural and intellectual weakness of the Ukrainians, the betrayal of a significant part of the“ political stratum ”of the country, traditionally, just“ historically, ”serves as a reliable auxiliary factor in this.

    However, Russia's current attempt to restore its great power status is not supported by resources and allies.

    This attempt will be the most miserable of all and will inevitably lead to another defeat with all the consequences - the reduction of the territory and population, the loss of the position of even a regional leader and the subsequent degradation of infrastructure.

    The territory of Russia is rapidly losing its attractiveness for living. Russia, not becoming a European country in the full sense, ceases to be it even partially. "
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 19 September 2013 13: 08
      0
      Quote: Druid
      http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/articles/2013/09/18/6998227/ на украинском.



      laughing serious source

      The territory of Russia is rapidly losing attractiveness for living.


      Russia, second largest migrant country after the United States

      http://www.utro.ru/articles/2013/09/12/1143414.shtml


      Still, are there funny articles?
  40. DuraLexSedLex.
    DuraLexSedLex. 19 September 2013 13: 05
    0
    And I am of the opinion that let them go wherever they want with their independence, we have nothing to catch there. There are some Russophobes under the flags of the Uno-UPA and other "offended". They want to be with Poland with Romania, well, let them be, we have something that. I do not understand these cries, they say, Ukraine, we will not give it. Yes, we need it, so that we would be there, for our desire to be together, watered with feces from head to toe ...
    The Russian people, you understand, Russia has no allies, there are INTERESTS. THE INTERESTS OF THE COUNTRY are the main thing. All these fraternities are all in the past: "we are all together", "friendship and kin for a century"; everything has passed as it never happened.
    For some reason, look what a "+" from the fact that they will enter Europe ... where you don't come everywhere there will be Ukrainian forgive-here, that is, everywhere they speak and understand Russian (just kidding)
  41. sergey72
    sergey72 19 September 2013 13: 08
    0
    When will he die at last? A turbo pan was waiting for him in hell ...
  42. bubla5
    bubla5 19 September 2013 13: 08
    0
    For Russia, a pleasant surprise will be the acupation of the United States by Arab countries
  43. Ddhal
    Ddhal 19 September 2013 13: 12
    +1
    Zbigniew ...
    Here he is the best enemy. To defeat such a great honor.
  44. nikcris
    nikcris 19 September 2013 13: 12
    0
    Quote: Igarr
    Here it is not necessary to be clever ..
    Greenland will also be taken into account, eh, geographer?
    Stupidly ... to fit in with academic amendments.

    And in 1 \ 7 land you did not include N. Earth, Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands? Or was it already presented as Damansky and Tarabarov? Did I miss something, was my pc on vacation? belay
    Faroes are looking for Danes have ...
  45. MG42
    MG42 19 September 2013 13: 16
    +2
    One of the main news from Ukraine today >>
    The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine at its meeting today, September 18, agreed on the text of an association agreement between Ukraine and the European Union. The draft document was approved unanimously., EU Ambassador to Ukraine Jan Tombinski, who attended the meeting, told the press, a REGNUM correspondent reports. "This is a very important and decisive step of the Ukrainian government", - the diplomat emphasized.
    Answering a question from a REGNUM correspondent, Tombinsky said: "I do not see the threat of failure to sign the Association Agreement by the European Union, and after today's approval of the text of the agreement by the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, I do not see such threats from Ukraine either." In addition, the diplomat confirmed the possibility of providing Ukraine with financial assistance after signing the association agreement in Vilnius, but did not specify whether it is about a billion euros or another amount. "We do not need to talk about a catastrophic scenario, we need to work every day. Every year the European Union allocates funding to support Ukraine. And this is not about improving the prospects for European investments. This is money that goes to self-government, for reforms," noted the EU ambassador.


    http://maxpark.com/community/2100/content/2209284
  46. MG42
    MG42 19 September 2013 13: 26
    +3
    The well-known American strategist and political thinker Zbigniew Brzezinski still believes that Russia and Ukraine will inevitably be within the framework of a large Europe.

    The demagogue is real, even purely geographically Russia will not be able to end up in Europe because most of it is located in Asia from the Ural Mountains to Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands ... Not to mention the fact that there are completely different cultural values, metality, family values, etc. Numerous NATO bases in Russia only in the dreams of Bzdezhinsky ..
  47. Ross
    Ross 19 September 2013 13: 26
    0
    Quote: Natalia
    ... and Brzezinski ... this is just the opinion of one Pole who hates and fears Russia.


    If everything were so simple ... Brzezinski is the mouthpiece of the 300 Committee, the Secret World Government, a member of the Rockefeller group.
  48. chushoj
    chushoj 19 September 2013 13: 29
    +1
    In Belarus, a few Poles control the brains of both Belarusians and Russians. Moreover, the Russians themselves do not believe each other, they feel superior that they did not deceive him, and they climb to the Pole for advice like a boa constrictor. A strange wild phenomenon when then the slandered and disgraced Russians (Belarusians) each feel their helplessness, look at each other and are silent. And some even want to see how the Pole will deceive the next. This is some kind of epidemic of devilry.
  49. Check
    Check 19 September 2013 13: 40
    +5
    I do not think that this is a reward. The Ukrainian leadership and, of course, the people must make their own choices about their future. After all, we cannot advocate for an independent and democratic Ukraine more than the Ukrainians themselves.
    yeah, and then the ban on the referendum. egegei democracy .. how am I enraged by these double standards!
  50. darksoul
    darksoul 19 September 2013 13: 49
    +1
    He is confident that the rapprochement between Ukraine and the European Union will have a beneficial effect on Russia.

    There is no need for any influence: on the one hand, we are that Europe is a white race ... on the other hand, we are so different in my head that I understand faster than a Chinese or an Arab. Homosexuals, pedophiles ... parents No. 1 and No. 2, tolerance .... every word makes you sick. They themselves chose their path to extinction ... pulling Ukraine along with them, Russia has a way up to a bright one, so Europe and I are not on the way