Military Review

Russian air defense covers only half the country

168
Russian air defense covers only half the country
C-400 "Triumph" at the Ashuluk training ground in the Astrakhan region during tactical exercises of the Russian aerospace defense forces. Photo: Ruslan Krivobok / RIA News



The experience of Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya showed that it is criminal to save on air defense

Pleasant memories are still alive in Russia about the enormous losses the American suffered. aviation from domestic anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) in Vietnam in 1965-1973, and the Israeli - over the Suez Canal in 1970 and 1973. At the same time, one cannot but admit the fact that after Vietnam aviation always won over ground air defense (including in 1973 in the Middle East). Especially revealing are the defeats that Israeli aviation carried out by Syrian air defense in the Lebanese Bekaa Valley in June 1982, and the US and its allies by Iraqi air defense in January - February 1991. These two examples are taken because the air defense of Syria and Iraq were considered powerful and modern (unlike the air defense of Yugoslavia in 1999 or the same Iraq in 2003). In June 1982, the Israelis lost only one Kfir fighter (shot down by the S-75 air defense system), in July - one Phantom (the Osa air defense shot down), and the Syrian anti-aircraft artillery shot down several helicopters. During the Desert Storm, the United States and its allies lost about 40 aircraft from Iraqi ground-based air defense systems. The defeat of the air defense was in this case in both cases complete and absolute.

In addition to technical and tactical aspects, the victory of aviation over ground defense is explained by the fact that the former always has the initiative, and the latter is forced to wait passively. Moreover, it is impossible to change this situation in any way.

It is impossible to do without ground defense. She, unlike aviation, is all-weather, she does not need to return to the airfield after completing a combat mission, her staff, despite the complexity of technology, is easier to prepare than the flight crew (at least in terms of physical fitness), it does not require a huge amount of fuel and lubricants (on the other hand, it can be connected to external power sources), it, as a rule, has more ready-to-fire ammunition than aviation. In addition, the very fact of the presence of air defense requires the diversion of aviation forces to its suppression. And the stronger the ground defense, the more aviation is needed to suppress it. Accordingly, aviation is distracted from the solution of the main tasks of defeating objects of the armed forces, infrastructure, industry, and government of the enemy. Thus, the air defense system automatically solves its task - to cover everything listed from enemy aircraft. At least that distracts enemy aircraft to themselves.

American F-105D shot down by Soviet RZK over North Vietnam. Photo: photo archive of Evgeny Bogun


Judging by the open data, today the Russian air defense system (the one that is included in the Air Force) has a 34 regiment with C-300PS, C-300М and C-400 air regiments. They consist of one hundred divisions - ninety-one C-300 and nine C-400 (those five regiments where there are C-400 divisions, each include C-300М division, since these systems are compatible). This number includes the training center of combat training of ZRV in Ashuluk of the Astrakhan region, where there are two C-300P divisions, while strictly speaking it is not a combat unit. In addition, five anti-aircraft missile brigades transformed into regiments were transferred to the Air Force from the air defense forces of the ground forces - two 2 divisional brigades C-300В and "Buk" and one mixed one (two C-300В divisions, one division "). In total, therefore, we have 39 regiments that include the 107 divisions (or 38 and 105, excluding Ashuluk). At first glance it seems a lot.

However, all this is distributed over a giant territory of the country extremely unevenly. Of course, Moscow is best defended, around which there are ten C-300P regiments (two of them have two C-400 divisions), as well as all five regiments of the Russian strategic missile defense system with A-135 missiles. By the way, this is the only existing missile defense system in the world, because the United States today has only a decade of talks about missile defense, followed by a decade Moscow hysteria. In 2011, all these regiments, as well as all the missile attack warning systems on the territory of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, were composed of the Aerospace Defense Forces (WKO) troops. Why this Moscow only is worthy of the EKR and why the C-300P / C-400 Moscow regiments are organizationally torn out of the rest of the country's air defense system - questions that are still unanswered.

Of course, St. Petersburg is well covered, of course, with four regiments of C-300P and a mixed regiment of C-300В / "Buk". Satisfactory can be considered as defense of fleet-based locations. In the region of Murmansk, Severomorsk, and Polar, three C-300P regiments are stationed, in the Vladivostok and Nakhodka area - two C-300P regiments, and the Nadkinsk regiment received two C-400 divisions. In the Kaliningrad region, where the main base of the BF is located, there is one regiment C-300В and one regiment C-300П / С-400. Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky is covered by one C-300P regiment, Novorossiysk is also covered by one that has already received two C-400 divisions.

The situation in the Khabarovsk area is relatively acceptable - one regiment C-300P and one C-300В in the neighboring Jewish Autonomous Region. Another regiment C-300P covers Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

That's all good or at least relatively satisfactory ends.

In the Central District outside the Moscow Region - one regiment of the C-300P near Voronezh. In the North-West region (except St. Petersburg and the Murmansk region) there is one C-300P regiment in the Novgorod region (it covers the elite dachas in Valdai). In the North Caucasus (except for the Novorossiysk regiment) - one regiment C-300P near Rostov-on-Don and one regiment of the Buk air defense system in the Krasnodar Territory. Moreover, the latter can only conditionally be considered part of the country's air defense. “Beech” is a purely military air defense missile system, its inclusion in the air defense system is artificial and obviously erroneous. For all the Volga region (except for the Ashuluk landfill) there are two C-300P regiments (near Samara and under Engels in the Saratov region). Say that it is a lot, somehow it does not work. But in the east things are incomparably worse.

For the whole of the Urals, "the stronghold of the empire", with its military industry - one regiment C-300P near Yekaterinburg. For the whole of gigantic Siberia (the inhabitants of the European part, as a rule, absolutely do not represent its real size) - three regiments C-300P (Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, Achinsk, Krasnoyarsk Territory) and one regiment “Buk” (in Buryatia), which was said , can only be conditionally attributed to the country's air defense.

Everything that is in the even gigantic Far East has already been listed above (one regiment C-300P / C-400, four regiments C-300P, one regiment C-300В in the areas of Vladivostok - Nakhodka, Khabarovsk - Birobidzhan, Komsomolsk-on Amure and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky). "Holes" between air defense facilities in the east of the country are several thousand kilometers, and anyone and anything in any quantities can fly into them. However, not only in Siberia and the Far East, but throughout the country a huge number of critical industrial facilities and infrastructure and locations of strategic nuclear forces (not to mention conventional aircraft) are not covered by any air defense.

Within the framework of the State Armaments Program, it was supposed to have twenty-eight X-NUMX-divisional regiments of C-2 and up to ten divisions of the latest C-400 aerial defense system (the latter supposedly should perform tasks not only of air defense and tactical missile defense, but also strategic missile defense) by 500. Now there is almost no doubt that these plans will be thwarted, although in fact they also seem to be very modest and insufficient to ensure an adequate air defense of the country.

In particular, at the beginning of the production of C-400, it suddenly turned out that we lacked the capacity to produce it, because many enterprises had long been destroyed by their own “effective managers”. Therefore, the construction of factories in Kirov and Nizhny Novgorod began in an emergency way, which, naturally, will take time and money. However, when the plants are completed, it will also suddenly become clear that for them there are not enough workers and engineering personnel. Those whom we have been breeding in recent years, that is, these very “effective managers”, as well as “stars” of pop music and sports, “politically active” Seliger youth and other “best people of the country”, for the production weapons unsuitable. Moreover, they are not suitable for solving the most difficult scientific problems of creating new military equipment. It will take quite a bit of time - and, again, it suddenly turns out that brainwashing and religion cannot be replaced by science, and without science, after a not very long period, they will take us with their bare hands.

The situation complicates the fact that air defense equipment is very expensive. The price of one regiment (even if there are only two divisions in it) with a modern air defense system is comparable to the price of a large warship. In this case, it is impossible to build a smaller regiment, because only it is a full-fledged combat unit. In addition, now there is a problem that practically was not in the air defense forces of the USSR: air defense facilities, even if they are located in the interior of the country, require considerable cover from the ground from the actions of terrorists and saboteurs special forces. Forces of the personnel of the anti-missile regiment itself cannot solve this task. In addition, they must be protected from the air by short-range air defense systems. Today, regiments with C-400 are received for this by the Pantsir-S air defense missile system (2 per division), but C-300P and B are not covered with anything.

The launch of the missile with the Pantsir-S anti-aircraft missile system as part of the exercises of the air defense forces at the Ashuluk training ground in the Astrakhan Region. Photo: Mikhail Fomichev / RIA News


In connection with the problems of re-equipping the air defense system with new equipment, we sometimes offer a seemingly sound palliative solution: to ensure that the air defense forces cover only the SNF facilities, that is, to make a “shield for the sword”, which is, of course, cheaper than covering the entire country. The essence of the idea is that in this case no adversary will be able to suddenly disarm us, and, therefore, will not risk attacking. Alas, this idea is only sensible at first glance.

As is known, the main drawback of the C-300 and C-400 systems is in the low rate of reloading of launchers. Therefore, if the strike is truly massive, then even with high accuracy of firing they may not have enough missiles to destroy all targets. Accordingly, if these missiles are few, then those two adversaries who may want to disarm us (the US and China) will be able to simply crush them with a mass of missiles, airplanes and UAVs, while at the same time the SNF will also suffice. In addition, these two opponents can choose another option - to start smashing non-nuclear weapons on our industry, infrastructure and conventional aircraft, which are not covered by anything. In this case, will we launch a nuclear strike on them, knowing that we will get a similar answer? Unfortunately, there is not the slightest confidence in this. With this option, we can stay with the "sword and shield", but without a country.

Therefore, no matter how expensive it is, it is necessary to cover as many of the most important objects as possible and even just the territory. In general, the more there will be a ZRS, the less there is even a possibility for the strongest opponent to crush them with mass. And in this particular case, his desire to commit aggression will sharply decrease.

The experience of Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya showed that if you save (and primarily on air defense) a conditional million today, this could result in the loss of a billion tomorrow. That is, such “economy” is absurd from a purely economic point of view. Moreover, the experience of European countries shows that the savings on the Armed Forces, leading to their ultimate reduction, that is, purely automatically, to the loss of combat capability, as a result also results in much greater, and often completely senseless costs. But it’s not very common for us to learn not only from others, but also from our mistakes.
Author:
Originator:
http://rusplt.ru/policy/pvo-rossii-prikryivaet-tolko-polstranyi.html
168 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. klimpopov
    klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 16 New
    34
    Well, the obvious things are written in the article! You can’t save on air defense, but air defense pulls the rest. If there is no integrated approach, the problem cannot be solved by half measures. But they have come to the point where it’s not only and not how much money they decide, there are no factories, no hands, and so on. Everything needs to be rebuilt. For 20 years, ditching everything is a pancake talent.
    1. domokl
      domokl 19 September 2013 09: 49 New
      16
      Quote: klimpopov
      . Everything needs to be rebuilt. For 20 years, ditch everything, it's a pancake talent.

      And who should build? A country where more than 10 percent of the population can be destroyed with a single blow, a country where vast richest territories are not settled, a country where the new is only in the center ... How will such a country protect Siberia and the Far East? Now is not the 41st, we can’t move the troops quickly ...
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 19 September 2013 09: 55 New
        14
        EVERYTHING needs to be rebuilt! Starting from education! But only time for this is practically gone. One can only hope that nature will help ...
        1. domokl
          domokl 19 September 2013 10: 05 New
          14
          Quote: klimpopov
          One can only hope that nature will help ...

          This year, nature perfectly showed what and how ... There is no time, I won’t argue here. But there is no one in the east. The population remains less and less ...
        2. starshina78
          starshina78 19 September 2013 12: 08 New
          16
          With whom to build and by what means? Young people don’t go to production, you won’t lure them there with any kind of mowing. Those who go to institutes or universities with a technical bias at the end, at best, come to the factory, and a month later he is already in the company, selling something, if only not the factory. They are afraid of plants. And they don’t go there for another reason - low salaries. The average age of working in factories is about 55 years. Yes, and from factories, those that were in the Union, there were miserable similarities. Half of the plant is operating, half is either on lease or in ruin. factory owners, bought them for a penny, thanks to voucher privatization, squeezing the last effort, do not carry out modernization, and if they do, then selectively. those plants. which belong to the state are also not particularly modernized. only now they started talking about reconstruction and modernization, and before that nobody needed them.
          As long as the state, in the person of the President and the Government, does not accept a program that will really work, and money is allocated under this program, only then will everything get off the ground. Both the missiles will fly and the air defense systems from the factory gates will fly out like “hot cakes”, and before that they worked with the help of a sledgehammer and some kind of mother, they will work and manage to produce excellent equipment.
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 19 September 2013 12: 25 New
            19
            Young people are going to production! Do not la - la. It’s just when it comes to the 4 rank and the salary of 8 thousand that somehow it then leaves there. "Carriages" should be given normal.
            In general, no one just tried to pay young people normally. Nevertheless, I’m somehow at a factory, though the salary is more or less not in the workshop, but it is also directly connected with technology and IT. There is someone to build with! Just who needs it?
            I agree with the second half of the post. About the same situation with us. Young people in the workplace are “harmful” pensioners. Here is my father this year on the first net retired - fifty dollars. He is a youth in a factory. Well, there are young, but not enough literate ...
            1. Apologet.Ru
              Apologet.Ru 19 September 2013 13: 48 New
              +1
              hi
              saving on air defense is criminal

              I do not think that this simple thought of genius causes someone to deny.
              Of course, I want it faster and more powerful and to make Lala happen, but ...
              We will not push under the elbow, because they do, try and the results are visible with the naked eye.
              It's just that people work like us.
              Let's tolerate a little bit and there will be a holiday on our street ...
            2. Apologet.Ru
              Apologet.Ru 19 September 2013 17: 24 New
              +1
              hi
              I do not think that the simple is true, that it is impossible to save on air defense, will cause someone to deny it.
              Of course, I want it faster and more powerful and to make Lala happen, but ...
              We will not push under the elbow, because they do, try and the results are visible with the naked eye.
              It's just that people work like us.
              Let's tolerate a little bit and there will be a holiday on our street ...
          2. Revolver
            Revolver 19 September 2013 22: 38 New
            0
            Quote: starshina78
            As long as the state, in the person of the President and the Government, does not accept a program that will really work, and money is allocated under this program, only then will everything get off the ground.

            Quote: V. Vysotsky
            Where is the money?
      2. Nick
        Nick 19 September 2013 10: 39 New
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        .How will such a country defend Siberia and the Far East? Now it’s not the 41st, we won’t be able to move the troops quickly ...

        Well, why ?, if we have the will, we can carry out a quick transfer of troops. Recent exercises in the Far East have shown this. Not without overlays of course ... but still ...
        1. vlad_pr
          vlad_pr 19 September 2013 13: 34 New
          +6
          Even if you have the will and desire, look at the map, take into account the time of making a decision, giving and passing orders, advancing to departure points and the time of transfer, as well as the time of advancement of enemy columns, covered by air defense and multiple superiority in manpower and equipment. Well, where will you transfer it? Moreover, there are almost no sites capable of accepting expeditionary forces. Naturally, a preventive killing blow will be dealt to them, from which there is really nothing to close.
          Sincerely.
          1. berimor
            berimor 19 September 2013 15: 11 New
            +5
            All right! And do not forget that now, indeed, is not 41 years old! Now they simply will not be allowed to deploy troops (missiles will be reached practically in the entire depth of the country)!
        2. eagle11
          eagle11 20 September 2013 13: 10 New
          0
          Do not confuse the transfer of troops in exercises and in war. There is no external impact on the exercises and the scale of the transfer is not the same.
      3. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 19 September 2013 17: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: domokl
        And who should build? A country where more than 10 percent of the population can be destroyed with a single blow, a country where vast richest territories are not settled, a country where the new is only in the center ... How will such a country protect Siberia and the Far East? Now is not the 41st, we can’t move the troops quickly ...

        Where is the "richest territory" not populated in Russia and who should be protected in Siberia and the Far East? Have you ever looked at a map of Russia? The whole area suitable for life is densely populated.
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 19 September 2013 17: 41 New
          +5
          No one lives on permafrost and air defense is unnecessary there, probably the General Staff has all the necessary maps for planning the deployment of air defense.
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 19 September 2013 17: 47 New
            -1
            Quote: Corsair5912
            probably the General Staff has all the necessary maps for planning the deployment of air defense.

            They have maps, but there are no recruits. If mass raids are carried out en masse in one poorly covered direction, then it is easy to suppress air defense in parts, let Moscow and Valdai cover themselves and amers will crush border regiments
            1. Corsair5912
              Corsair5912 19 September 2013 19: 31 New
              +3
              Quote: Pilat2009
              Quote: Corsair5912
              probably the General Staff has all the necessary maps for planning the deployment of air defense.

              They have maps, but there are no recruits. If mass raids are carried out en masse in one poorly covered direction, then it is easy to suppress air defense in parts, let Moscow and Valdai cover themselves and amers will crush border regiments

              There are no problems with conscripts in Russia, when required, they carry out special kits of the right specialists in limited quantities for up to six months or a year, and it will be not difficult to carry out a mass appeal. I myself had to participate in some places after the demobilization.
              In order to crush the air defense in parts, it is necessary to divide the strike forces into parts, and this is fraught with a retaliatory strike, which will not take long.
              Russia is not Yugoslavia, not Iraq and Afghanistan, it has something to answer, to the aggressor at any distance.
          2. 31231
            31231 19 September 2013 18: 11 New
            +2
            People simply do not realize what the "one sixth" of the earth’s planet is. Even amers are not able to cover it reliably.
            1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
              NOBODY EXCEPT US 20 September 2013 00: 18 New
              0
              It has long been no longer "one sixth" 1/6 it was the USSR ...
      4. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 19 September 2013 17: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: domokl
        Now it’s not the 41st, we can’t move the troops quickly ...

        So they will not be enough for a solid front. But the United States will have to accumulate troops as in the Iraq war in order to start large-scale intervention not from Europe. Moreover, there is nowhere to accumulate them from Georgia.
        This means that the first time the war will be limited only to strikes by the Kyrgyz Republic and aviation. So, it is necessary to build up air defense and precision weapons to fire in response.
        As for China, without nuclear weapons they cannot be defeated unambiguously, they will crush them.
        Now the question is backfill - are you ready to accept the exchange of nuclear strikes and become one of the 10-15 million dead?
        1. 31231
          31231 19 September 2013 18: 17 New
          +2
          That is, if the United States will bomb our country with airplanes and cruise missiles, we will not use nuclear weapons ?!
          According to many comments here, the USA and NATO, China and Iran will attack our country. The peoples and leaders of these countries know what they must do according to your statements ?!
          For some reason, it seems to me that now the only possible chance to attack Russia is either with the help of gangs, or puppets at the level of Georgia or the Baltic states.
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 19 September 2013 20: 03 New
            -4
            Quote: 31231
            That is, if the United States will bomb our country with airplanes and cruise missiles, we will not use nuclear weapons ?!

            Once again I want to ask, are you ready to lose half of the population for what? Are we all going to die but will not give up? That’s what the Japanese said in the 45th. Fortunately, not everyone thought so and now they are living well. Like Germany.
            There will be no global conflict. The maximum possible local conflicts are the use of conventional and high-precision weapons. They will not shoot at nuclear power plants either, they remember Chernobyl. China will be given the territory to the Urals or a little less
            Quote: 31231
            The peoples and leaders of these countries know what they have to do.

            Peoples do not play a special role - where were they during Vietnam, Iraq and Yugoslavia? Decisions are made by senior leaders
            1. 31231
              31231 19 September 2013 20: 50 New
              0
              In your imagination, as I understand it, in the role of the defenders ?! Well, and that we do not have the right to respond disproportionately ?! I understand that if Syria launched a missile with sarin on their nearby bases to attack the United States, then it would be razed to the ground. But we do not sarin at all and not at the bases we can clap. And the concentration of enemy forces is noticeable.

              The nations do not play ?! And who participated in the demonstrations against the Vietnam War ?! Who forbade Cameron to participate in the attack on Syria !? Who was afraid of Merkel if she participated in aggression against Syria ?!
              It used to be a vegetable. Now with access to free internet a lot is changing.
              1. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 19 September 2013 20: 57 New
                +2
                Quote: 31231
                no right to answer disproportionately ?!

                Is there a right? Is there a desire? I think Medvedev is completely reluctant to sit in the Hague Tribunal, it is better somewhere in London. The members of one party will run first from the ship
                1. 31231
                  31231 19 September 2013 21: 19 New
                  +2
                  And why is there no such desire ?! You say that our opponents have a desire to attack us with airplanes and cruise missiles, and we have no desire to hit them with nuclear weapons in response. Not nonsense, not ?!
                  Iran why does nuclear weapons do ?! For check?!
                  1. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 19 September 2013 23: 18 New
                    +1
                    Quote: 31231
                    Iran why does nuclear weapons do ?!

                    And what does Iran have to do with it? Pakistan has a bomb. Doesn’t it scare you? S. Korea also. Tomorrow, some Chim Sen Il will hit Vladivostok from helplessness and hello. In response, you will beat across North. Korea, but this will not make you feel better.
                    Quote: 31231
                    not

                    Ne.One activist with a stain on his forehead was a zealous supporter of disarmament. Do you think he would have answered nuclear weapons? Now he is doing well, why would he risk his health for something?
                    We were ashamed to answer for Kursk and you are talking about a global catastrophe ....
              2. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 19 September 2013 21: 03 New
                +1
                Quote: 31231
                And who participated in the demonstrations against the Vietnam War ?!

                After striking, you can walk the streets at least for days and protest, and after the strike, even the most inveterate pacifists will shut up
                1. 31231
                  31231 19 September 2013 21: 23 New
                  +1
                  I completely did not understand the comment. Nuclear weapons are a great guarantee against external aggression. And when it is also with the superpower, it is a full guarantor.
                  Because of this, local conflicts between the USSR and the USA took place on third-party territories: Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan.
                  1. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 19 September 2013 23: 06 New
                    -1
                    Quote: 31231
                    And when it is also with the superpower, it is a full guarantor.

                    So let's cut back on other types of troops - why are they needed at all. The US is such a fool, developed the concept of nuclear-free war. And we giggle in the kitchen
                    1. 31231
                      31231 20 September 2013 05: 28 New
                      0
                      You must live within your means, but not like the USA on credit. The Russian military budget is the third in the world, with a fifth of GDP. Do you think this is not enough ?!
                      1. Pilat2009
                        Pilat2009 20 September 2013 20: 14 New
                        0
                        Quote: 31231
                        Do you think this is not enough ?!

                        I didn’t mention it at all
                        We are talking about the fact that nuclear weapons are not a panacea and they will try not to use it in local conflicts. That means you need powerful air defense and high-precision ammunition to respond. And you need a lot, at least half a year to start. And you need to make sure that the warehouses are not bombed. Example -Folkland conflict. If Argentina had a supply of missiles, but if they had worked, it would have been very bad for the British. Besides, there was a tactical nuclear weapon on ships
      5. Su24
        Su24 20 September 2013 05: 23 New
        0
        Quote: domokl
        Quote: klimpopov
        . Everything needs to be rebuilt. For 20 years, ditch everything, it's a pancake talent.

        And who should build? A country where more than 10 percent of the population can be destroyed with a single blow, a country where vast richest territories are not settled, a country where the new is only in the center ... How will such a country protect Siberia and the Far East? Now is not the 41st, we can’t move the troops quickly ...


        So, wait a minute, and who and where will attack Siberia? Kazakhstan and Mongolia?
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 20 September 2013 21: 39 New
          0
          Quote: Su24
          Kazakhstan and Mongolia?

          Guess Three Times
    2. Crocodile
      Crocodile 19 September 2013 10: 52 New
      +8
      First you need, at least, the desire of leadership and the appropriate commands and orders!
      Our management so far considers economic benefits, having forgotten about strategic RESPONSIBILITIES!
      Quote: klimpopov
      Everything needs to be rebuilt. For 20 years, ditch everything, it's a pancake talent.

      It is necessary to rebuild not only air defense, but to rebuild the whole country, raise it from its knees, learn how to work and not earn!
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 19 September 2013 11: 46 New
        +2
        ... you need, at least, a desire for leadership ...
        ... and the will of that very leadership
      2. GDP
        GDP 19 September 2013 13: 12 New
        +2
        Learning to work, not making money - golden words! Here is the main difference between the USSR and the Russian Federation ...
    3. Ruslan_F38
      Ruslan_F38 19 September 2013 11: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: klimpopov
      Well, the obvious things are written in the article! You can’t save on air defense


      You can not save not only on air defense, but also on the air force. Yes, in general, they do not save on aircraft, especially in the current turbulent situation in the world. Today I read an article in Izvestia that by 2015, many regions will declare bankruptcy due to excessive debt on loans. Well, and what will our government save on? Everyone heard Siluanov.
      1. GDP
        GDP 19 September 2013 13: 13 New
        -1
        It seems Napoleon said - "If a country does not want to pay for its army, then it will have to pay for someone else's ..."
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 19 September 2013 17: 42 New
          0
          Quote: GDP
          Napoleon seems to have said

          Napoleon said once and parrots repeat endlessly. Do not be a parrot, come up with something original.
          He also said: "God is on the side of the large battalions"
        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 19 September 2013 23: 43 New
          +3
          Quote: GDP
          "If a country does not want to pay for its army, then it will have to pay someone else's ..."


          Not Napoleon, but Louis, and not pay, but feed.
      2. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 19 September 2013 19: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Ruslan_F38
        Quote: klimpopov
        Well, the obvious things are written in the article! You can’t save on air defense

        You can not save not only on air defense, but also on the air force. Yes, in general, they do not save on aircraft, especially in the current turbulent situation in the world. Today I read an article in Izvestia that by 2015, many regions will declare bankruptcy due to excessive debt on loans. Well, and what will our government save on? Everyone heard Siluanov.

        Full nonsense.
        Not a single military factory was closed in the Urals, only production volumes were reduced compared to the USSR and the assortment changed in some places, but everything can be restored in 4-5 years, including staffing.
        What to expect in 2015, if even now in most regions the administration is bankrupt, there is not enough own funds for pensions, housing and communal services, roads, etc. It was the same in the USSR. Well, when did it bother anyone? The state will write off debts and all affairs, as it always has been.
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 19 September 2013 20: 10 New
          -1
          Quote: Corsair5912
          including staffing.

          Are you aware that some specialties have been studying for more than a dozen years?
          you can’t lure a highly skilled healer with 25 rubles. And a locksmith of the 6th category does not suddenly appear. There are of course individual masochists, but these are either drunks or young people who fade when they learn a little
          1. Corsair5912
            Corsair5912 21 September 2013 13: 13 New
            0
            [
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Are you aware that several specialties have been studied for more than a dozen years? You won’t lure a highly skilled healer with 25 rubles. And a mechanic of the 6th category doesn’t suddenly appear. There are, of course, individual masochists, but these are either drunks or young people who shed when they learn a little

            I am aware that any working profession can be trained in 1-2 years, and in the future it all depends on the person himself, either in 2-3 years he will become a highly skilled specialist, or he will never become one. During the perestroika, I myself acquired two working specialties at the level of 6th grade, this is not a problem for an engineer.
            Highly skilled workers in the Ural factories receive a salary of 35-70 thousand rubles, or even more.
    4. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 19 September 2013 11: 44 New
      +3
      For 20 years they have killed everything that they could (production), and the rest is achieved (training of scientific and production personnel). Case after time.
      1. Walking
        Walking 19 September 2013 15: 17 New
        +1
        Breaking is easier than building
    5. Army1
      Army1 19 September 2013 16: 34 New
      +2
      The author is certainly right, well, in order to protect your country from massive attacks from the air with one EXCELLENT air defense system, you need to have a decent (modern, rather big) Air Force fleet that can destroy rocket carriers from an airplane to a ship. And in general, everything should be at a good level.
    6. user
      user 19 September 2013 17: 10 New
      0
      The article is about nothing. That most of the country is not covered, I would be surprised if there is someone who does not know this, just a statement of fact. And then what. In any case, even with 70% cover, knowing the size of our territories, there will be no and never enough money. So far we have something to answer, and that’s enough, and if we sign another agreement to reduce nuclear weapons, then it’s definitely krindyk. All these cries of a disproportionate retaliatory strike are bullshit, so if there is nothing to answer, then no air defense system will save us.
      1. kostya_a
        kostya_a 19 September 2013 17: 51 New
        0
        I agree, the article is a minus! In the days of the USSR, air defense was covered by the same objects. 100% of the territory cannot be covered up and this is a fact! The article talks about a "sudden massive strike" ????? What kind of nonsense, what kind of "sudden" is this ?? Does anyone really think that someone’s ships and troops can be secretly brought to the borders of the country? Yes, this takes more than one week, it will not work quietly, this is not one Swedish diesel submarine! And even if a massive blow occurs, who prevents the nuclear weapons from responding! The doctrine of the use of nuclear weapons allows it! The speed of the tomahawk is 0,5-0,75 M, and the speed of Topol-M or Yars or Mace is supersonic!
    7. alone
      alone 19 September 2013 21: 06 New
      +3
      Quote: klimpopov
      Well, the obvious things are written in the article!


      I recently remember here saying that by 2020, the 24th S-400 regiment would be ready. I expressed my opinion that it was unrealistic to protect the vastness of the 24th regiments of Russia. I almost declared an alarmist and an enemy of Russia))
      1. 31231
        31231 19 September 2013 21: 28 New
        0
        For warning of missile attacks there are Voronezh. Against air and tactical missiles there is an answer in the form of nuclear weapons.
        Who is an immortal nation that ignores such intricate truths ?!
    8. nerd.su
      nerd.su 19 September 2013 23: 16 New
      -1
      Quote: klimpopov
      Well, the obvious things are written in the article!

      Well, supermega military expert Khramchikhin. What to take from him if he doesn’t even know why we have missile defense only around Moscow. Another prosrali polymers.
      No, our air defense, of course, is not perfect. But breeding a discussion around a Cossack paid by the Americans is also not serious.
  2. Tarpon
    Tarpon 19 September 2013 09: 19 New
    +5
    The experience of Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya has shown that if you save (and primarily just for air defense) a conditional million today, then this could result in a loss of a billion tomorrow

    All true.
    I hope that with the launch of two plants the situation with air defense will begin to improve.
  3. a52333
    a52333 19 September 2013 09: 20 New
    +3
    "Holes" between air defense facilities in the east of the country are several thousand kilometers
    No, there the population density, and, accordingly, the enterprises is close to 0. It’s necessary to close, who argues. But there is no reason to panic. I would like to see a kamikaze who will try us for strength! Recently I’m going to Voronezh, in the fields between Kursk and Voronezh there is a Shell. Directly nice. So. just remembered. Who will tell you how to insert video from a computer? and generally does not work, not from a computer.
    1. TRex
      TRex 19 September 2013 09: 31 New
      16
      What does "population density" have to do with it? Dolbani at the Surgut hydroelectric station is a region without electricity, gouging the Yamal fields is a country without gas. Kursk and Voronezh are good, but the Urals and Siberia are strategic regions for the whole country.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 19 September 2013 09: 36 New
        +8
        This is all understandable, but it’s impossible to cover up our entire country reliably with air defense forces (by air defense regiments), too grandiose proportions. This was not in the USSR. The main thing, as mentioned in the article, is to cover the strategic nuclear forces objects, at least for the time of the first strike, so that there is a guaranteed answer. It cools many hotheads.
        1. Airman
          Airman 19 September 2013 10: 08 New
          +4
          Quote: Vladimirets
          This is all understandable, but it’s impossible to cover up our entire country reliably with air defense forces (by air defense regiments), too grandiose scale. This was not in the USSR ..

          I don’t know how Siberia is, but the European part was covered by air defense systems of the country (and air defense systems were also connected to them) during Soviet times, it was completely covered.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 19 September 2013 11: 09 New
            +2
            Quote: Povshnik
            but the European part by means of the country's air defense (and air defense systems of the air defense were also connected to them) was completely covered during Soviet times.


            This is when it was. Now only strategic objects. A nuclear power plant, for example, some military bases.
      2. Blinov_I
        Blinov_I 19 September 2013 10: 20 New
        +1
        It seems to me that to the Urals and Siberia, the hypothetical aggressor first needs to fly over closed borders. Remember the saying: whoever protects everything does not protect anything. I am sure that there is much to improve the air defense scheme, but just cover the territory in Siberia?
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 19 September 2013 10: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Blinov_I
          It seems to me that to the Urals and Siberia, the hypothetical aggressor first needs to fly over closed borders.

          Do you think that he will fly directly over Moscow to the Urals? A hypothetical aggressor and the Arctic is enough.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 19 September 2013 11: 11 New
            +5
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Do you think that he will fly directly over Moscow to the Urals?


            Exactly. At the same time, guiding along the highway or along the “Kaganovich compass”.
        2. Proud.
          Proud. 19 September 2013 11: 52 New
          0
          Quote: Blinov_I
          but just cover the territory in Siberia?

          This is a layered air defense. It is not realistic to create such a cover for a territory or border (on a country scale), or very difficult. Therefore, they create a cover for the main air (aerospace) directions and important objects.
          1. Walking
            Walking 19 September 2013 15: 21 New
            +2
            From the side of the Arctic there is no cover at all.
            1. T80UM1
              T80UM1 20 September 2013 07: 22 New
              +1
              Previously, the Arctic was closed instantly 31
        3. me
          me 19 September 2013 16: 18 New
          0
          But what about NATO’s ground operation is no longer being considered?
          1. Arabist
            Arabist 19 September 2013 16: 20 New
            +1
            And many NATO countries have something similar to the army, except Turkey and France?
            1. me
              me 21 September 2013 10: 35 New
              0
              Turkey, France, Germany, Britain, plus US bases nearby, little chtoli?
      3. 31231
        31231 19 September 2013 21: 31 New
        0
        And what kind of broken-down crafts of the Yamal and Surgut state district power stations will fly hundreds of nuclear warheads ?!
        Or are you like some here who have seen an immortal state on the globe ?!
  4. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 19 September 2013 09: 24 New
    12
    The work of air defense should be combined with parallel work to disable the places of deployment of enemy strike weapons. Not a single shield will stand if the enemy stupidly thrashing him with a club, not afraid to receive a blow in response.
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 19 September 2013 13: 19 New
      +2
      I agree with the concept! It’s stupid to sit and wait for the bombing to begin - silly and illiterate tactically and strategically, the victory is for those who have the initiative. carriers and bases must be destroyed, it is much more effective than closing 100 percent of the entire territory of the country.
  5. My address
    My address 19 September 2013 09: 26 New
    11
    Down and Out trouble started. Ten years ago and half of this was not.
  6. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 September 2013 09: 30 New
    +3
    Therefore, no matter how expensive it is, it is necessary to cover as many of the most important objects as possible and even just the territory. In general, the more there will be a ZRS, the less there is even a possibility for the strongest opponent to crush them with mass. And in this particular case, his desire to commit aggression will sharply decrease.
    This is a no brainer .. Here only in Russia, as always, we are swinging for a long time waiting for the thunder to strike (and it is already booming in the Middle East)
  7. Sergeant
    Sergeant 19 September 2013 09: 33 New
    +3
    Quote: "..for many enterprises have long been destroyed by their own" effective managers ""

    Managers in the country have blossomed in violent colors on fertile Russian soil ...

    Good article, there is something to think about ..
  8. Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 19 September 2013 09: 40 New
    +1
    It is necessary to restore the factories and produce dual-use products on them in order to at least slightly pay back the production of equipment for the army. Or really release export options for self-sufficiency.
    But it is simply necessary to protect the country!
  9. Nursultan
    Nursultan 19 September 2013 09: 40 New
    +6
    Kazakhstan will spend more than 570 million tenge on the joint air defense system of the CIS countries, the Tengrinews.kz correspondent reports with reference to the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan.

    Financing of the air defense system is entrusted to three countries - Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. "Expenditures in the amount of 2014 million tenge are planned in the budget of the Ministry of Defense for the development of the integrated air defense system of the CIS member states for 573, including appropriations for the activities of the Coordinating Committee on Air Defense under the CIS MFA - about 1,5 million tenge" , - reported in the ministry.

    Recall that the decision to create a unified air defense system was made on February 10, 1995. It became the first and so far the only real-life defensive system of the CIS. During its existence, the combat strength of air defense on the European border of the CIS doubled, on the southern border - one and a half times.

    From August 13 to October 20, 2013 a joint exercise with combat shooting of the CIS armed forces "Combat Commonwealth" is held. The active phase of the exercise was held in Kazakhstan at the Saryshagan training ground and in Russia at the Ashuluk training ground.

    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/na-obyedinennuyu-sistemu-pvo-sng-kazahstan-

    potratit-570-millionov-tenge-241893 /
    Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to Tengrinews.kz

    This is to what was before this article that the Russian Federation pays for all.
    1. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 19 September 2013 11: 11 New
      11
      We certainly pay. But what is it 4 million dollars (570 million tenge)? If they allocate $ 20 million each for underground passages in Astana? Ours are still playing tin soldiers. Kazakhstan could, playing an important role in the Commonwealth, build a number of factories that are so necessary for general defense. hi
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 20 September 2013 07: 22 New
        +1
        Factories need infrastructure, trained personnel, military technology, and most importantly, in the conditions of wild capitalism, who will pay for everything? and in addition to the native MO, to whom will we sell?
  10. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 19 September 2013 09: 46 New
    11
    No offense will be said to our esteemed air defense workers, but in our army they say that air defense - it's like a girl’s pubic hair - is covered, but not protected. So one air defense is not a panacea for protecting against enemy air attack weapons. All this must be added to our fighter aircraft. Together, they are the real force that in modern warfare will confront the enemy. Separately, they are weak, but together .... Let's add radiotechnical troops and EW troops to this.
    Dear author, I forgot to indicate the air defense of the Ground Forces. And there is an interesting complex S-300V and its modifications. They are in no way inferior to the S-300P systems.
    I would have added the strength and resources of Belarus and Kazakhstan to our country's air defense.
    Well, now let's recall how the S-300 Yankees are afraid. Hearing about the sale of these complexes to Iran and Syria, the United States and their friend (Jackal Tabaki) Israel became alarmed. They rank these systems almost as strategic. So it's probably too hysterical and say that everything is bad and that "everything is lost" is not worth it. We have at least 107 divisions of the world's best S-300 / S-400 system. And most importantly, although at a small, but still confident pace, rearmament to new complexes is underway.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 19 September 2013 10: 55 New
      10
      Quote: VohaAhov
      Dear author, I forgot to indicate the air defense of the Ground Forces. And there is an interesting complex S-300V and its modifications. They are in no way inferior to the S-300P systems.


      Yes, not only that "forgot"! The author simply stupidly calculated the number of air defense systems and on the basis of this concluded that these funds are not enough for Russia to withstand a massive attack by VKN funds from a potential enemy. Any professional military man will tell him that they need to evaluate not specific types of weapons, but from the standpoint of the fact that based on realities aerospace is an independent theater of armed struggle.
      This theater is really existing, colossal space of volume character, within which there are many subject to defense from aerospace attacks of ground state installations.
      It is necessary to look at what forces and means on this theater of operations the enemy has and will be in the future. And these are ICBMs and NDBs, hypersonic reconnaissance and missile defense systems, aerospace aircraft (such as a shuttle), the Ohio nuclear submarine from the Kyrgyz Republic, etc. This will definitely fly to us through space and from space (we also need to take into account the prospect of creating a space strike group enemy).
      Now the means of air (aerodynamic) attack - SB are carriers of the WTO and GZKR, TA and PA aircraft (carriers of the KR type "Tomahawk"), UAVs of all kinds including false targets, AWACS, REP aircraft and much more.
      And then it’s already to evaluate the arsenal of Russian means as a defending party in the complex and based on this draw conclusions about ability to fend off a massive, extended in time, carried out in the entire range of heights, strike of a hypothetical opponent in all operational directions. But it’s not stupid to consider how many air defense missiles cover Moscow or Magadan. Then it will be an analysis where it will be clearly visible in which direction and what forces and means you need to have in order to withstand the above threats.
      And as regards Moscow and the Central Military District, the enemy plans to apply nuclear weapons in an amount of at least 80 nuclear warheads (which in their opinion is enough to break through the A-135 missile defense based on the assumption that we will get 10-15 epicenters here)) apart from the NBR and the Kyrgyz Republic with the WTO, therefore there concentrated the main forces of aerospace defense, including and air defense system S-400 (300)
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 19 September 2013 12: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Ascetic
        And then already evaluate the arsenal of Russian means as a defending side in the complex and based on this draw conclusions about the ability to fend off a massive, extended over time, carried out in the entire range of heights, strike of a hypothetical opponent in all operational directions

        The main thing is that the wise men from Petagon would not take this article as the basis of the report of the US administration that we can be "taken with our bare hands." After all, they did an analysis of the capabilities of our fleet off the coast of Syria, supposedly not a threat.
      2. berimor
        berimor 19 September 2013 15: 27 New
        +2
        All right! I set +, but it is also true that most of the means of military air defense of combat duty in peacetime does not carry and in the reflection of the sudden first water strike can not take part.
    2. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 19 September 2013 11: 14 New
      +3
      It would be interesting to read the same analysis in the USA, who has the materials?
  11. slacker
    slacker 19 September 2013 09: 49 New
    +7
    Russian air defense covers only half the country

    This is a good result. A few years ago one could have dreamed of such a thing. The glass is already half full.
  12. Dumb cattle
    Dumb cattle 19 September 2013 09: 51 New
    +6
    And about the fighter and air defense aircraft, not a word. Or will it be inactive in a massive air attack?
    1. Airman
      Airman 19 September 2013 10: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: Dumb
      And about the fighter and air defense aircraft, not a word. Or will it be inactive in a massive air attack?

      In order to effectively use ALL air defense systems (air defense of the country, air defense of air forces and aviation) it is necessary to uncover the sudden use of aerospace attack means, and for this (especially against Tomahawk-type cruise missiles) it is necessary to have a solid radar field above the whole country at least at a height 100 m, but with us it is far from continuous, especially in the north. Otherwise, the aircraft may remain at airfields.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 19 September 2013 10: 34 New
        +7
        Quote: Povshnik
        it is necessary to have a solid radar field over ALL THE COUNTRY at least at an altitude of 100 m, but in our country it is far from continuous, especially in the north.


        Hole...
        From Novaya Zemlya to those very same Novosibirsk islands.
        Give target designation of the MiG-31 squadron, which in Anderma, in fact, there is no one.
        1. VAF
          VAF 19 September 2013 15: 38 New
          +4
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Give target designation of the MiG-31 squadron, which in Anderma, in fact, there is no one.


          Dear ... where are you all this time .. "dwell" belay ??

          72 GIAP "left" from Anderma-1 .. someone to Savvatey, and some cars to Anadyr ... in 1993 year !!!!!!
          Now there is nothing - neither Afrikanda, nor Kemi, nor Savvatiya, nor Tallag, etc. yes
          Only Monchegorsk soldier
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 19 September 2013 16: 20 New
            +4
            Quote: vaf
            72 GIAP "left" from Anderma-1 .. someone to Savvatey, and some cars to Anadyr ... in 1993 year !!!!!!
            Now there is nothing - neither Afrikanda, nor Kemi, nor Savvatiya, nor Tallag, etc.

            Guilty ...
            I confess ... I was not in the subject.
            I remember Talagi ... even before that ...
            hi
          2. TRex
            TRex 19 September 2013 20: 20 New
            0
            Talagi ... Rogachevo ... Nostalgia ... Once in the 80, I spent the night at the Talagi airport, waiting for a passing flight to Amderma-2, and the regiment had night flights. And they flew on the Tu-128 (according to the NATO qualification "Street violinist"). So these “violinists” did not let their concert go to sleep - on take-off mode, the windows cracked in the windows.
            And we had a regiment on the Yak-28 ("Flying Fence"). And the regiment sat in Severodvinsk, and in Anderme-1. At least the North was covered. Where is all this now? And why was there a system crash? At least one squadron left, by link ...
          3. eagle11
            eagle11 20 September 2013 13: 18 New
            0
            ... neither Letneozersk, nor Kotlas, nor Rogachevo ...
  13. rugor
    rugor 19 September 2013 10: 00 New
    +2
    many enterprises have long been destroyed by their own "effective managers"


    And they have not done anything for it. And the factories were pulled to zero.
  14. Russ69
    Russ69 19 September 2013 10: 07 New
    +3
    Creating a full-fledged air defense in our country is not an easy task, a large territory and important facilities are scattered throughout the country. Well, at least something is being done for this. But no matter how we would like, it will take at least 20 years for anyone. Modern complexes are expensive now, stamping them in large quantities will not work. And there are enough problems everywhere, not only in air defense, but also in the navy and aviation, and also in the ground forces.
  15. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 19 September 2013 10: 39 New
    +3
    The problems raised in the article are relevant. “A grief awaits a country that is unable to repel air strikes”. Spoke Victory Marshal G.K.Zhukov. I guess, thatDevelopment, mass production of new air defense systems in our country is carried out in accordance with the capabilities of our industry. Yes, there are many problems. The system of training personnel in vocational schools, which in Soviet times was the main supplier of workers for industry, was destroyed. This training system needs to be urgently restored. A large number of air defense systems goes abroad, for export. It may make sense to revise the export program in favor of strengthening the grouping of domestic air defense.
    1. chushoj
      chushoj 19 September 2013 14: 13 New
      -2
      To speak the words of Nemtsov, who found where something is not worth it.
      It was bad when under Yeltsin they sold the entire intelligence system. The main enemy is the internal enemy. Observe how the production of air defense pays for themselves, and advise how they need better is not necessary. 90% of the victory is the provision and knowledge of the situation. It means that they know less about you. Now the situation, you see, is no longer hopeless. Now everyone at his workplace should do the job, and eliminate everything and everyone who is stopping it. The solution to all problems by the method “get up the country for a sharp restoring order” can lead to the appearance of heaps of bulk and other destroyers.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 19 September 2013 18: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      The grief awaits that country, which will be unable to repel air strikes. " Spoke Victory Marshal G.K. Zhukov.

      Why didn’t you say it before, in the year 39-40? We stamped tanks and planes more than anyone else in the world, the army was also the most ....
  16. HollyGremlin
    HollyGremlin 19 September 2013 10: 40 New
    0
    I am not an expert, but the question arises: why in the Urals C300? Where rockets and planes will fly from there. From potential allies to the Urals, these are at least medium-range missiles and they will fly through territories protected by air defense and will fly for a relatively long time. If they start bombing the Urals, they will do it with the help of ICBMs (much more efficiently), and this is already a war of extermination, and here it is already difficult to guess what remains of the Earth. It’s correct that they press the air defense to the borders, so more time to re-attack the target. In Dalniy, there’s also a question: if you wait for a threat from the United States (then China will help), if from China, then its main weapon is the number, it simply crushes by land, you’ll have to give everything to the Urals, but China will not be able to move on quickly (there are no roads, supply bases, especially in winter). And assuming a joint attack by the US and China, the result is clear.
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 19 September 2013 10: 48 New
      +9
      From the North they will fly ... open to all the winds and planes of the North.
      1. HollyGremlin
        HollyGremlin 19 September 2013 10: 55 New
        -3
        Who! At least 6000 km across the pole, and this is an ICBM, and if they shoot from our shores, the fleet, not the air defense, should solve this problem
        1. Airman
          Airman 19 September 2013 11: 05 New
          +2
          Quote: HollyGremlin
          Who! At least 6000 km across the pole, and this is an ICBM, and if they shoot from our shores, the fleet, not the air defense, should solve this problem

          The Americans have nuclear submarines armed with the Kyrgyz Republic, and therefore it is not in vain that our northern fleet made a voyage along the northern sea route, but it cannot be there all the time. And the fleet will not solve air defense issues on its own.
        2. vlad_pr
          vlad_pr 19 September 2013 13: 50 New
          +2
          And here the pole, you can safely go under the pack ice, in the extreme case, emerge into the hole and hammer it with all the dope, then quickly dump it on reload. There is no acoustic overlap of the Arctic Ocean. Continuous radar coverage as well. There is nothing to intercept. Here is the result, the industrial complex and the population of the Urals and Siberia under a devastating blow. Also, where is the fleet in the waters of the North of Russia and how much is it there?
          Sincerely.
        3. berimor
          berimor 19 September 2013 15: 35 New
          +1
          At one time, it was from the north that we expected massive aerospace strikes from the United States according to the Giant Spear plan, and this direction, in turn, was divided into several other directions under the code names Glass Point, Roasted Chef, etc. .d.
    2. Fin
      Fin 19 September 2013 11: 03 New
      +2
      And did not think that through the North. can a pole fly in?
  17. Shellback
    Shellback 19 September 2013 10: 49 New
    +2
    Quote: HollyGremlin
    I am not an expert, but the question arises: why in the Urals C300? Where rockets and planes will fly from there.

    They will hit cruise missiles from the Arctic Ocean in the Urals, do not forget about ICBMs, whose warheads attack from the upper atmosphere. We lose the Urals, we ...
    1. HollyGremlin
      HollyGremlin 19 September 2013 11: 00 New
      -1
      The winged ones do not reach, only at the limit of opportunities and do not forget about the ice, the ocean is not everywhere there, and intercepting ICBMs is a very difficult task, and ICBMs will most likely carry a nuclear charge, and this is a war of annihilation, here the system of guaranteed mutual destruction must work out, there not to the Urals will be, at least to save.
  18. pa_nik
    pa_nik 19 September 2013 10: 54 New
    +4
    The title of the article is not news. Unfortunately. crying
  19. Bezarius
    Bezarius 19 September 2013 11: 01 New
    -2
    > Of course, Moscow is best protected, around which there are ten regiments of S-300P air defense systems (two of them have two S-400 divisions)

    Well, this is how to say it. Considering that ~ 10% of the country's population lives in Moscow, it can be said that it got a fair part of the 10.

    In general, I want to note that not everything is so bad with air defense. Even the same American warriors said that the survival rate of NATO aircraft in our skies is practically zero.
    1. vlad_pr
      vlad_pr 19 September 2013 13: 58 New
      +5
      The statements of the enemies with the aim of playing on feelings can be anything to please the enemy, but given the reality, not one of the big bosses will take responsibility without coordination with the mask. Examples - Rust in Red Square, or the scattering of toys over Minsk.
      Sincerely.
      1. Rudy
        Rudy 19 September 2013 18: 06 New
        0
        There is no need to juggle about Rust; there were a lot of fantasies about him. I am not familiar with the participants in those actions themselves, but I talked with a person familiar with that situation. He told me this rusta was led from the border almost immediately. And the fighter circled the truth though at different speeds, and the pilot suggested that he simply fly over the rust and the afterburner and he himself will collapse from turbulence. By the way, rust used to say that the Russians led him away from the border. The problem arose not in terms of knocking down or detecting. And what did the command of Lenin do with it, they did not take responsibility for the downing of a civilian aircraft, they began to communicate in ascending order with Moscow, they were also replaced, they began to communicate with the government, these were lost, and as time goes on, rusty flies. While they thought that it was the government that was guilty of rusting and flew in fact, the Bosko flew into flax.
        1. alone
          alone 19 September 2013 21: 16 New
          +1
          after the Korean incident, no one wanted to risk knocking down a non-combatant. This is the reason for what happened with the rust.
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 20 September 2013 00: 47 New
            0
            Quote: lonely
            after the Korean incident, no one wanted to risk knocking down a non-combatant. This is the reason for what happened with the rust.


            Intelligence probes continued to fly from Norwegian sites, ...
        2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
          NOBODY EXCEPT US 20 September 2013 00: 40 New
          -1
          Interceptors from ck 130 do not fly, but Sesna flies, they spotted him at the border and lost him and found him only on Kr.pl. let your comrade not - he was not alone there ......
  20. Shellback
    Shellback 19 September 2013 11: 02 New
    +4
    Khramchikhin is right: the sky is full of holes. There are not enough air defense systems and specialists, there are no new missiles, the production of new complexes is constantly being postponed, as if they are waiting for an attack specially. Is it clear that Moscow and Peter are covered when the whole country is in ruins? It is necessary to change the military doctrine, to produce air defense and radar systems, to train specialists, conduct survival courses among the population, how to behave in the event of a missile strike. And bomb shelters? There is none of them. God forbid they hit us - the losses will be terrible. Regardless of whether we apply nuclear weapons or not.
    1. HollyGremlin
      HollyGremlin 19 September 2013 11: 11 New
      +2
      That's about the bomb shelter I agree. This primitive defense system is in terrible condition. They really just aren't there. There are 2 main ways to protect the population: 1. bomb shelters - at this stage it is expensive and ineffective, but much better than nothing. 2. The distribution of the population by territory, but for this there must be an ideal warning system and thoroughly worked out schemes where, whom, when and who should lead.
  21. Shellback
    Shellback 19 September 2013 11: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: HollyGremlin
    Winged do not reach, only at the limit of possibilities and do not forget about the ice

    What kind of ice? American submarines can surface and launch missiles. Besides, the Northern Sea Route is not ice-bound right now. Have you seen through the box how our ships recently sailed along the Northern Sea Route? There is no ice, only fragments, and the range of the American Kyrgyz Republic is more than enough to reach not only the Urals, but also deeper to any point.
    1. HollyGremlin
      HollyGremlin 19 September 2013 11: 57 New
      0
      Well what are you saying:
      1. Look at the map as the Northern Sea Route clings to the shores.
      2. They are conducted by an atomic icebreaker!
      3. A submarine can come up and launch, far from everywhere, very rarely dare it.
      4. Where did you find such missiles, for example, modern tomahawks have 1500 km range (previously there were 2500). If you say that is enough, then give an example of the point from which they will shoot (and how to get to this point) and which rocket (maybe I am missing some data).
      1. Shellback
        Shellback 19 September 2013 12: 14 New
        +4
        Quote: HollyGremlin
        1. Look at the map as the Northern Sea Route clings to the shores.
        2. They are conducted by an atomic icebreaker!
        3. A submarine can come up and launch, far from everywhere, very rarely dare it.
        4. Where did you find such missiles, for example, modern tomahawks have 1500 km range (previously there were 2500). If you say that is enough, then give an example of the point from which they will shoot (and how to get to this point) and which rocket (maybe I am missing some data).

        1. Launch can be carried out near the coast, this is not a problem.
        2. In the event of an attack and the outbreak of war, they will emerge where they order, or they may not emerge and launch from under the water.
        3. Speak rarely solved? Once will be enough. In conjunction with strategic aviation, our North is still not covered. With the exception of Murmansk. 1500 km is a good range, reach the Urals, but I repeat, aviation will get deeper. Now the United States is conducting long-range missile tests, and they show the world only what they need. There is no continuous ice cover, and they can also surface and break ice.
        1. HollyGremlin
          HollyGremlin 19 September 2013 12: 56 New
          0
          1. To run from the coast you need to approach it, which means you can find them a hundred times and make sure of hostile intentions. And that means striking them (starting from the Yakhontov and the Navy, ending with aviation)
          2. The Yankees did not launch rockets from under the ice (of course, for now)
          3. 1500km - not enough, you can measure with a ruler. (4000km would be good there)
          4. Break the ice with the hull (I doubt it, but if there are submariners, let them say how efficiently the boat breaks the ice above the superstructures)
          5. Do you need to launch aviation from airfields nearby or will you drive an aircraft carrier on ice? (except strategic bombers, the number of which limits the contract).
          So it will be more effective to consolidate air defense at the border, better in several echelons, than to scatter it around the country.
          1. Shellback
            Shellback 19 September 2013 13: 12 New
            +4
            Listen, are you comforting yourself? Continue in the same vein, but if we are hit, these consolations will not help. I’m not going to prove obvious things. Measure with a ruler, at least a tape measure, whatever. They will get where they need to, and long-range bombers will work in depth. The BSU American concept provides inflicting a powerful blow to anywhere in the world.
            I said from under the water, not from under the ice, read carefully. Yachts in the uninhabited North, in the tundra? laughing
            Who will find US submarines there? In the north? Take a look at the map of Russia. Nobody will find amers, we are technically not able to do this.
            1. Shellback
              Shellback 19 September 2013 13: 24 New
              +2
              So take a look at the map: from Novaya Zemlya to Chukotka along the Arctic Ocean there is a "dead zone", the sky and the sea are not controlled, with the exception of focal areas of air defense, which will not play any role and will be destroyed with impunity in the event of a strike in the first minutes. A complete expanse for the enemy. But there are oil and gas pipelines, Norilsk Nickel, defense enterprises and other facilities, the destruction of which paralyzes the whole country.
            2. vlad_pr
              vlad_pr 19 September 2013 14: 15 New
              +2
              I support you, as Comrade HollyGremlin wrote in his reply at 13.50 (he didn’t get to your post), the problems are "very big." And it is not very constructive to console oneself with cap-making, for it is fraught with grave consequences. Let's look objectively, since it is better to be a pessimist to a reasonable extent than a hyperactive optimist.
              Best regards
              1. Army1
                Army1 19 September 2013 18: 10 New
                0
                All exclude the presence of a submarine fleet, Russian aviation.
            3. Corsair5912
              Corsair5912 19 September 2013 18: 29 New
              0
              Quote: Shellback
              .KR will get where they need to,and long-range bombers will work in depth.American concept of BSU provides for the application of a powerful blow to anywhere in the world.
              I said from under the water, not from under the ice, read carefully. Yachts in the uninhabited North, in the tundra?
              Who will find US submarines there? In the north? Take a look at the map of Russia. Nobody will find amers,we are technically not able to do this.

              Excuse me, who is your specialty, where are you from so dense and ignorant?
              Russia has stationary radars that control the entire North to Greenland and the borders of the USA, inclusive, no Yankees bombers reach the coast, will be shot down over the ice.
              And against the Yusov submarines there is a passive detection system, cheap, reliable and efficient, and there are some traps and surprises for the Yankees.
        2. Army1
          Army1 19 September 2013 18: 28 New
          0
          Quote: Shellback
          Now the United States is testing long-range missiles

          Which one? SLCM? ALCV? Name
    2. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 19 September 2013 18: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Shellback
      Quote: HollyGremlin
      Winged do not reach, only at the limit of possibilities and do not forget about the ice

      What kind of ice? American submarines can surface and launch missiles. Besides, the Northern Sea Route is not ice-bound right now. Have you seen through the box how our ships recently sailed along the Northern Sea Route? There is no ice, only fragments, and the range of the American Kyrgyz Republic is more than enough to reach not only the Urals, but also deeper to any point.

      Cherovato you know the hydrology of the Arctic Ocean. The Northern Sea Route is not icebound for 2-4 months a year (in sections) during navigation, it is icebound for 8-10 months and is impassable without icebreakers.
      It is not a problem to find and drown a submarine in the Northern Sea Route; it will not even have time to fart, as a rocket slams at it.
      Coast guard posts and passive stationary underwater submarine detection systems operate continuously.
      The advantages of the passive method are its secrecy - the target does not know about the fact of detection, a relatively large range - in some cases, very noisy objects are detected at distances of 100 ÷ 150 miles - and the ability to classify targets according to the nature of the noise.
      1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
        NOBODY EXCEPT US 20 September 2013 00: 42 New
        +2
        You tell the widows and mothers of the guys from Kursk, strategist ...!
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 20 September 2013 00: 54 New
          +2
          That's for sure. Crowd in crowds right in the combat training areas. And they wanted to sneeze on all of our PLO. There is no benefit from SOPO Navy. EGSONPO only on paper.
  22. Shellback
    Shellback 19 September 2013 11: 15 New
    +2
    Another problem: Our air defense systems and even the S-400 can’t work in constant mode, or rather their radars. They can detect the target only when they are on, but they are not always on. A clear system of command and control, communications and electronic warfare is needed. This one organism, without which any, even the most advanced air defense systems are a heap of iron. We have no control system as such. Studies on the Far East showed that we would have been defeated in the event of war. 10 hours aviation delay !!! Where does it fit? The enemy will not wait until we come to our senses. On the contrary.
    1. Shellback
      Shellback 19 September 2013 12: 58 New
      0
      I will add that aviation kerosene in Russia is not currently being produced AT ALL. We are completely dependent on imports and in the event of a war our partners will block our supplies, and we will not have enough reserves for a long time. But the authorities try not to talk about it. They ruined and plundered everything that is possible and impossible.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 19 September 2013 18: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: Shellback
        Add that aviation kerosene in Russia is not produced at all now. We are completely dependent on imports and in the event of a war our partners will block our supplies, and we will not have enough reserves for a long time. But the authorities try not to talk about it. They ruined and plundered everything that is possible and impossible.

        I wonder where did you get such information, and even fool people?
        The volume of production of jet fuels in 2007 amounted to 9012,1 thousand tons. Of these, 7395,04 thousand tons were delivered to the domestic market, the rest - for export. Production of jet fuel in Russia is engaged in 20 oil refineries.
        OJSC NK Rosneft:
        Komsomolsk refinery (TS-1)
        Syzran Oil Refinery (RT)
        Novokuibyshevsky Oil Refinery (TS-1, RT)
        Achinsk Oil Refinery (TS-1)
        Angarsk NHK (TS-1)
        Lukoil OJSC:
        Volgogradneftepererabotka (TS-1, RT)
        Permnefteorgsintez (RT)
        Nizhny Novgorodnefteorgsintez (TS-1, RT)
        Ukhtaneftepererabotka (RT)
        OJSC Gazprom Neft:
        Moscow Oil Refinery (TS-1)
        Omsk Oil Refinery (TS-1)
        OJSC Surgutneftegas
        PO Kirishinefteorgsintez (TS-1)
        OJSC TNK-BP Holding
        Ryazan Oil Refinery (TS-1)
        OAO NGK Slavneft
        Yaroslavnefteorgsintez (TS-1)
        OAO NK RussNeft
        Orsknefteorgsintez (RT)
        NK "Alliance"
        Khabarovsk Oil Refinery (TS-1)
        TAIF-NK OJSC
        Nizhnekamsk Oil Refinery (TS-1, RT)
        Novo-Ufa Refinery (TS-1)
        Nizhnekamsk Oil Refinery (TS-1, RT)
        Krasnodarekoneft (TS-1)
        There is no data on the production of T-6 and T-8V fuels. Previously, T-6 kerosene was produced by the Angarsk NHC and Orsknefteorgsintez.
        Any aviation fuel leaving the refinery is tested and accepted by a military representative:
        1. Shellback
          Shellback 19 September 2013 18: 53 New
          -1
          Quote: Corsair5912
          I wonder where did you get such information, and even fool people?

          You delete this Wikipedia data and don’t show it to anyone. Anyone in the know will dare you. But hatred is inappropriate here: Yes I-ahhh, Yes We-yyyy, yes we are with you !!! ...
          Your information is ancient and dark. Everything has decayed and destroyed long ago. You don’t need to beat yourself in the chest with your fist, you haven’t seen such people. And drop the wikipedia, it’s not foggy. as I understand it, and you don’t know how to talk normally, so talk to people like you and read what other people write, and don’t throw your head around. Save for war. I said everything.
  23. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 19 September 2013 11: 17 New
    +4
    As a former pilot, I would add that the mass can be worked out by special charges. All that flies will sit down, well, at least from the EMP.
    1. Proud.
      Proud. 19 September 2013 11: 56 New
      +4
      Quote: Asan Ata
      Like a former flyman

      Greetings! hi He served an emergency on the S-75, commander of the PU.
      1. berimor
        berimor 19 September 2013 15: 45 New
        +3
        Greetings! And I began my service in the country's air defense commander of the starting platoon at the S-75 air defense system in 1966 in the Kiev air defense army!
        Yours!
        1. Proud.
          Proud. 19 September 2013 15: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: berimor
          Greetings!

          Mutually! hi
        2. Proud.
          Proud. 19 September 2013 15: 57 New
          +1
          Quote: berimor
          . in the Kiev army

          So I am in the Kiev, in the Donetsk regiment smile
  24. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 19 September 2013 11: 17 New
    +2
    "Why only Moscow is worthy of this aerospace defense and why the S-300P / S-400 regiments near Moscow are organizationally torn from the rest of the country's air defense system - questions that still remain unanswered."
    In the USSR, this was spelled out in the terms of the ABM treaty. Whenever possible, under the umbrella, they gathered everything that needed protection, headquarters, communication centers, government, production, stocks. All this requires protection now. In addition, now the "Moscow" air defense zone is simultaneously western. The eastern one passes along the Volga, separate cities and objects are hiding behind the Urals, a solid cover is too luxurious. In addition, the main blow will go from the west and through the pole. In the event of a strike by China, air defense is not particularly useful, because it is not yet within the forces of the East Kazakhstan region.
  25. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 19 September 2013 11: 18 New
    +3
    As a former pvoshnik, I would add that the mass can be worked out by special charges. Everything that flies would crouch, well, at least from EMR.
    1. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 19 September 2013 13: 20 New
      +1
      ... "work off with special charges ..." - is it with a nuclear warhead over Russian territory?
      1. Proud.
        Proud. 19 September 2013 17: 46 New
        +2
        Quote: Black Colonel
        is it with a nuclear warhead over Russian territory?

        It turns out that so. Similar products were in each division.
  26. Shellback
    Shellback 19 September 2013 11: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: Bezarius
    Even the same American warriors said that the survival rate of NATO aircraft in our skies is practically zero.

    They still will not say something, just to lull our vigilance and prevent the strengthening of air defense / missile defense. Like, guys, you are armed to the teeth, there is no one to be afraid, everything is in a bundle! And our Vanya will hang up his ears and believe until they give him a head, and only then he will turn on the thinker if he remains alive.
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 19 September 2013 18: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: Shellback
      Quote: Bezarius
      Even the same American warriors said that the survival rate of NATO aircraft in our skies is practically zero.

      They still will not say something, just to lull our vigilance and prevent the strengthening of air defense / missile defense. Like, guys, you are armed to the teeth, there is no one to be afraid, everything is in a bundle! And our Vanya will hang up his ears and believe until they give him a head, and only then he will turn on the thinker if he remains alive.

      Our Vanya and Vasya are smarter than the Yusovsites on average, and by choice, Yusovtsy can’t compete with us.
      They have something that is not the president, then a walking joke, that the general is not an oak paranoid.
      Their generals are jumping screaming from skyscrapers - Russians are coming !!!
      You can’t push our general out of the window with a bulldozer, at least scream with yells - the Yankees are coming !!! - you will hear back - Well, x ... with them, let them go.
  27. j iz sibiri
    j iz sibiri 19 September 2013 11: 32 New
    +3
    the city of Tomsk Siberia the city has a closed city of Tomsk 7 or Seversk
    there is a complex for the processing of nuclear warheads (plutonium of uranium and other hero) it is one in the whole country

    there is not one thousand tons in the same place and the repository of all this processed rubbish

    used to cover around the perimeter of the 4th regiment of air defense now there is nothing there, even the mines were bombarded

    the territory of siberia is finally not covered either

    (if I find a link that remains of the parts of the air defense)



    http://4x4.tomsk.ru/topic11007.html
  28. j iz sibiri
    j iz sibiri 19 September 2013 11: 57 New
    +2
    and it’s even scary to imagine if something flies into this repository what consequences will be for everyone (not only for Siberia)

    THERE IS A LINK TO SEVERSK THE SAME TOMSK 7 http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=56.621063&lon=84.863892&z=14&m=b
  29. Prometey
    Prometey 19 September 2013 12: 01 New
    0
    Ground-based air defense, no matter how ultra-modern and sophisticated they would be, will never be a panacea for aggression. They are needed for the first reflection of the blow. Following the reflection, a full-fledged counterattack on the aggressor should be inflicted, and this requires a powerful air fist, the Navy and strategic aviation, and not nuclear tactical short- and medium-range missiles. Iraq and Yugoslavia lost not because they had small and outdated air defense systems, but because they did not have the ability to retaliate.
    In Vietnam, ground-based air defense played a significant role, but Vietnamese aviation also fought in the air against the Yankees.
  30. Kolyan 2
    Kolyan 2 19 September 2013 12: 10 New
    0
    because the US today has only a decade of talk about missile defense, followed by a ten-year hysteria of Moscow. I do not agree here, there is no hysteria and there was no current if the author has it. And first of all, strategic objects need to be covered up (I think I need to explain that this is not necessary). But as they wrote above, they didn’t have the strength or the means to quickly correct the situation, alas, there is sadness. request
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 19 September 2013 17: 50 New
      0
      Quote: Kolyan 2
      because the US today has only a decade of talk about missile defense, followed by a ten-year hysteria of Moscow. I do not agree here, there is no hysteria and there was no current if the author has it. And first of all, strategic objects need to be covered up (I think I need to explain that this is not necessary). But as they wrote above, they didn’t have the strength or the means to quickly correct the situation, alas, there is sadness. request

      I agree. When Moscow demanded that the Yankees remove the rockets from the borders of Russia, this was not a hysteria, but a completely legitimate demand. Let the missiles be placed where they want in their IFP.
  31. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 19 September 2013 12: 12 New
    +7
    Well, what do we want the peasants: before, our Gorky covered the Gorky 16th Air Defense Corps. The deployment of the headquarters of the Communist Party corps, in Upper Pechery near the Semashko hospital ... The headquarters was on Izhorskaya street. The corps included: 2 aviation regiments, anti-aircraft missile regiments, S-300 brigades (region). The responsibility boundary of the corps looked like an ellipse and extended from south to north, roughly from the city of Tambov to the city of Kotlas (about 900 km.) And from west to east from the city of Vladimir to the city of Kirov (about 500 km.). The main objects of direct cover were Moscow and Gorky. With this in mind, a group of forces and means of the corps was created. It included: the 72nd air defense brigade (the city of Gorodets) with the combat mission of directly covering the Gorky Dam, the Zavolzhsky Motor Plant, the airfield hub and the city of Gorky; 356th and 291st ZRP (e.g. Sharya and Neya). All these units were armed with S-200 long-range anti-aircraft missile systems; 786th IAP (the city of Pravdinsk), armed with fighter-interceptors MiG-25P, and the 153rd IAP (the city of Morshansk) on Su-15 aircraft; 9th RTBR (Gorky) and 65th RTP (Morshansk). The radio engineering units created a reconnaissance radar field over the entire territory of the corps responsibility. The compound included special units with deployment in the city and surrounding areas. Plus its own air defense school. Now, from all this “splendor”, only Sevasleyka was left near Kulebaki, on which the MiG-31 squadron, covering Arzamas-16 and EVERYTHING is based !!!. The school was disbanded back in 1999, the airfield in Pravdinsk was handed over to DOSAAF, and the underground command post in Upper Pechery was given color and scribblers, later it was actively “mastered” by homeless people, graphitists, gamers and other elements. So they managed to burn, moreover, more than once. Something like that...
    1. VAF
      VAF 19 September 2013 16: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: smiths xnumx
      786th IAP (the city of Pravdinsk), armed with fighter-interceptors MiG-25P, and the 153rd IAP (the city of Morshansk)


      Subsequently rearmament on Mig-31, +! soldier

      And for Savasleiku ..... only a link flies from the squadron crying
  32. GRDS
    GRDS 19 September 2013 12: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: Asan Ata
    As a former pvoshnik, I would add that the mass can be worked out by special charges. Everything that flies would crouch, well, at least from EMR.


    I confirm! If in a sector of more than 5 goals a special product is applied (C), everyone will fall - both their own and others.
  33. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 19 September 2013 12: 42 New
    +1
    Kind! The article is relevant, adequate! But the topic has already been beaten, the conclusion has long been made by all visitors to the site - you need to buy equipment and put it on duty! Another thing is that a truly massive air raid needs to be organized too, China is terrible on the ground, and the Americans may not have enough power.
  34. major071
    major071 19 September 2013 12: 43 New
    10
    In particular, at the beginning of the production of S-400 it suddenly became clear that we lacked the capacity for its production, because many enterprises had long been destroyed by their own "effective managers."
    A brief example: in our city there was a plant for the production of unguided missiles for all systems in service. He began to work in the years of the Second World War. Now bankrupt and generally closed. Lost workers and engineers. Production can no longer be restored. Of the five fairly large factories, 4 were closed; the fifth barely makes ends meet and holds thanks to oil refining. The city from an industrial center turned into a subsidized one. First, we destroy everything, and then we try to restore something on the fragments. Oh, Russia, life does not teach you anything ...
  35. Makarov
    Makarov 19 September 2013 12: 44 New
    +1
    the same is news to me, already at least half the country, and not just the Western part is already good
  36. amp
    amp 19 September 2013 12: 46 New
    0
    In Soviet times, the country's air defense also did not cover it all. It is simply not possible for such a large country. That is why, the main role in protecting the country from air attacks should belong to aviation.

    As for the air defense systems, they must cover the largest industrial centers, military bases and the most dangerous areas.
    The most dangerous direction is the western direction. Poland has always been a springboard for the invasion of Russia.
    1. Prometey
      Prometey 19 September 2013 13: 22 New
      0
      Quote: amp
      In Soviet times, the country's air defense also did not cover it all. It is simply not possible for such a large country. That is why, the main role in protecting the country from air attacks should belong to aviation.

      As for the air defense systems, they must cover the largest industrial centers, military bases and the most dangerous areas.

      I agree with you. Air defense is a shield, but war cannot be won with one shield, you need a sharpened sword.
  37. kostyan77708
    kostyan77708 19 September 2013 13: 17 New
    +1
    Regarding Iraq, there was infa that bribed the entire command and leaked air defense control codes to the mattress ...
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 19 September 2013 15: 22 New
      0
      Quote: kostyan77708
      and leaked air defense control codes to the mattress ...

      if about 1991, then shevardnadze leaked ...
  38. darksoul
    darksoul 19 September 2013 13: 27 New
    +1
    As you know, the main drawback of the S-300 and S-400 air defense systems is the low rate of reloading launchers. Therefore, if the blow is truly massive, then .....

    Therefore, the air defense system should be deeply echeloned, I hope it will be so .... One S-300/400 is not a ponacea, beeches should be behind it, behind beeches, wasps, tenth arrows, armor, tori and shilka, tunguska ... all that we have and will be in perspective. On the approach of Vityaz ... there is little data on them, but these are medium-range air defense and, if I am not mistaken, 12 missiles three times more than C and beech
  39. nikcris
    nikcris 19 September 2013 13: 46 New
    -5
    Quote: Nursultan
    Kazakhstan will spend more than 570 million tenge on the joint air defense system of the CIS countries, the Tengrinews.kz correspondent reports with reference to the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan.

    Financing of the air defense system is entrusted to three countries - Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. "Expenditures in the amount of 2014 million tenge are planned in the budget of the Ministry of Defense for the development of the integrated air defense system of the CIS member states for 573, including appropriations for the activities of the Coordinating Committee on Air Defense under the CIS MFA - about 1,5 million tenge" , - reported in the ministry.

    Recall that the decision to create a unified air defense system was made on February 10, 1995. It became the first and so far the only real-life defensive system of the CIS. During its existence, the combat strength of air defense on the European border of the CIS doubled, on the southern border - one and a half times.

    From August 13 to October 20, 2013 a joint exercise with combat shooting of the CIS armed forces "Combat Commonwealth" is held. The active phase of the exercise was held in Kazakhstan at the Saryshagan training ground and in Russia at the Ashuluk training ground.

    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/na-obyedinennuyu-sistemu-pvo-sng-kazahstan-



    potratit-570-millionov-tenge-241893 /
    Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to Tengrinews.kz

    This is to what was before this article that the Russian Federation pays for all.

    I could not resist, a former countryman, quoted fully crying
    Your contribution to joint air defense in the amount of FOUR MILLION dollars really will not be appreciated !!!
    This is as much as THREE% of the rent for Baikonur. I wish all enemies such allies as the Republic of Kazakhstan bully
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 September 2013 17: 22 New
      +2
      1) Baikonur (city and spaceport) is the property of Kazakhstan. Why should we rent our property for free? The Kazakh SSR took part in the construction of many facilities in the RSFSR - whether it was post-war reconstruction of cities or the construction of BAM facilities. Ready to give it to Kazakhstan for free?
      2) Kazakhstan never received “live” Baikonur money. In the 90s, Russia gave away barter instead of this money (used-up almost decommissioned aircraft and similar trash), now there is an offset: rent of Baikonur and other military training grounds in the KZ for the training of Kazakhstani cadets in Russian military universities. In a word, money remains in Russia. And Russia may be pleased that the majority of Kazakhstani cadets who study abroad study in Russia, which directly affects the coherence of the troops of the KZ and the Russian Federation, and their combat readiness.

      In short, chew Orbits, a refugee.
    2. Nursultan
      Nursultan 19 September 2013 17: 25 New
      +2
      money from Baikonur does not go to the country's budget. they train our officers in Russian universities. as well as about 4 million. This principle is enough to repair what is available. and purchases of S-400 and S-500, we stand in line. plus in the RK there are already firms that produce radar.
    3. T80UM1
      T80UM1 20 September 2013 07: 13 New
      +1
      Well, our military budget is not 3% of GDP, as some have, based on the budget we pay a bribe for our security, we also buy weapons from some people on credit, and we pay with real money, 100 million for the contamination of FG against this background just looks incorrect. ..
  40. Hort
    Hort 19 September 2013 14: 00 New
    0
    yeah ... First, in the 90s from the same north (and not only) they removed air defense personnel, now we think what would be to fix the holes in the defense
  41. Stasi
    Stasi 19 September 2013 14: 23 New
    0
    Nowadays, the words of Marshal Zhukov "Woe to that country that is not able to repel air strikes" are historical. During the war, the German Luftwaffe shot our troops with refugees in which there were women, children, the elderly and the sick with almost impunity. The weakness of our then air defense was largely due to the implementation of the ideas of Tukhachevsky, who, instead of creating full-fledged anti-aircraft guns, pursued the line of creating universal cannons capable of firing both at planes and at ground forces. Nothing good came of this idea: where such cannons were fired with rare spits, our planes ran into the powerful fire of German flak systems. The Germans, unlike Tukhachevsky, created full-fledged air defense. Given the development of science and technology, this idea was not suitable for that time; it was realized today in the Pantsir missile-cannon complex. Now, given the state of our armed forces and the collapsed defense industry, the situation is largely repeating the forties. Our air defense systems have modern systems, but there are very few of them to provide complete cover for the country. In addition to the air defense systems themselves, the latest radars, radio equipment and electronic warfare equipment are needed. And most importantly, combat crews consisting of qualified specialists. As always, personnel decide everything, equipment if necessary can be produced in the right quantity, the only question is where to get trained people who can manage and command all this equipment. Nowadays, the front of hostilities has moved from the ground to the air sphere and, with this in mind, it would be more correct to call air defense the second most important branch of forces after the strategic nuclear forces.
  42. Double major
    Double major 19 September 2013 14: 28 New
    +3
    Somewhere I read an anecdote some time ago: "The experiments of British scientists showed that saving on the effectiveness of the air defense forces invariably leads to the democratization of the country."
  43. Arabist
    Arabist 19 September 2013 14: 48 New
    0
    I wonder how the military "expert" on the Chinese threat Khramchakhin is going to cover the whole country, which takes 1st place in the territory?
  44. facktor
    facktor 19 September 2013 15: 16 New
    0
    Look at the link http://topwar.ru/31354-protivovozdushnaya-oborona-ssha.html. In the US and Canada, there are TOTAL 3 (three) places based air defense systems.
    1. j iz sibiri
      j iz sibiri 19 September 2013 15: 20 New
      0
      THE LINK DOES NOT WORK
      1. Proud.
        Proud. 20 September 2013 15: 07 New
        0
        Quote: j iz sibiri
        THE LINK DOES NOT WORK

        Through Google it works.
  45. facktor
    facktor 19 September 2013 15: 31 New
    0
    Not hard to type or find.
    US Air Defense

    July 29 2013
    1. amp
      amp 19 September 2013 15: 40 New
      +3
      But at their side there are no foreign military bases like ours.
  46. MG42
    MG42 19 September 2013 15: 43 New
    +2
    It would not hurt to reinforce such articles with cards ..
    However, all this is distributed throughout the gigantic territory of the country extremely unevenly. Of course, Moscow is best protected.

    google evil ..
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 19 September 2013 15: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: MG42
      It would not hurt to reinforce such articles with cards ..

      And this is exactly a map laughing Or someone played with a compass, while you’re breaking your whole brain, wassat
      1. MG42
        MG42 19 September 2013 15: 59 New
        +4
        Radar - key elements of a missile attack warning system.
        1. MG42
          MG42 19 September 2013 16: 45 New
          +3
          As you can see, the North-East of Russia from Taimyr to Chukotka is not very covered >> apparently a lower population density or a limited number of strategic objects .. hi
  47. PSih2097
    PSih2097 19 September 2013 15: 57 New
    +2
    Today, regiments with S-400 receive for this ZRPK “Shell-S” (2 per division), but the S-300P and B are not covered by anything.

    The S-300V is open, but why cover them (they stand in the pits, there is no war yet)? and where did the tunguska go?
  48. PSih2097
    PSih2097 19 September 2013 15: 57 New
    0
    Today, regiments with S-400 receive for this ZRPK “Shell-S” (2 per division), but the S-300P and B are not covered by anything.

    The S-300V is open, but why cover them (they stand in the pits, there is no war yet)? and where did the tunguska go?
  49. Nursultan
    Nursultan 19 September 2013 17: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: Asan Ata
    We certainly pay. But what is it 4 million dollars (570 million tenge)? If they allocate $ 20 million each for underground passages in Astana? Ours are still playing tin soldiers. Kazakhstan could, playing an important role in the Commonwealth, build a number of factories that are so necessary for general defense. hi


    Not all manufacturers want to build factories in Kazakhstan; they value Kazakhstan as a commodity country. Raw materials are cheaper than the finished product.
    And so in Kazakhstan there are factories that produce target missiles, radar (5N84, P-18, and also soon we will release a three-radar radar with the French). and 4 million in principle for the repair of existing equipment is sufficient. RK is also standing in line for the purchase of S-400 and S-500 we are waiting for the turn to come to us.
    1. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 19 September 2013 20: 50 New
      +1
      Baurym, for a country that throws billions in all kinds of Asian Games and Expo, 4 million dollars is dirt under the nails. Our Khokhmachis cannot really develop a military doctrine. I think they understand where the military threat comes from, but they are afraid to pronounce aloud. Kazakhstan, as an ally of Russia, needs a related defense concept, plus its own zest, which will make all sorts of thoughts think.
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 20 September 2013 07: 16 New
        +1
        I agree, it’s just easier to cut money on expos and Asian Games than on air defense, a too specific area. Fortunately, we have Migi31 for closing borders.
        1. Asan Ata
          Asan Ata 20 September 2013 22: 00 New
          +1
          Over two billion tenge (13.3 million dollars) Kazakhstan spent on the repair of one S-300PS air defense system. Somewhere around 10% of the cost.
          1. scientist
            scientist 21 September 2013 09: 21 New
            0
            In Kazakhstan, so many generals were transplanted for corruption and mistakes in the military-technical policy, which led to billions in losses! And illiterate lovers of thick portfolios are not diminishing.
            Tell me, where will you take klystrons for the repaired S-5PS air defense systems for another 300 years, because they haven’t been released for almost 20 years and they have been raked for a long time.
            And about the French radar, this is generally ridiculous. Not only that, they cost 4 times more expensive than their Russian counterparts, but in terms of their characteristics, except for the tasks of the air traffic control. There is nothing to talk about any tasks of tactical missile defense. In addition, the military-industrial complex of Kazakhstan and the French have not been able to establish simple production of conventional radio stations for 4 years, but here you have to grow appetites to whole radars, and even in some private Granit shop with a "waterproof roof". This private shop of swindlers all his life was engaged only in the withdrawal of budget money for all sorts of scam projects, not one of which was brought to an end.
            Therefore, it is possible to laugh at tears through Kazakhstan’s air defense, it’s very scary to live under such air cover.
            1. Asan Ata
              Asan Ata 21 September 2013 23: 39 New
              +1
              In our time, this word (klystron) was forbidden to pronounce.)))) Probably those who have raked out and are waiting for buyers.)))) I do not know about French radars, I think, most likely, we will get a layout at the price of the original.)) )) They cover Astana in the 300s, and if they bought what, they got it for that.)))) But everyone loves Almaty, she does not need to be covered.
            2. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu 22 September 2013 19: 53 New
              0
              Quote: scientist
              Therefore, it is possible to laugh at tears through Kazakhstan’s air defense, it’s very scary to live under such air cover.
              Well, you don’t have to worry about the scientist .. sleep well ..
              1. scientist
                scientist 22 September 2013 20: 18 New
                0
                Quote: Alibekulu
                sleep well..

                Well, yes, because "a real commander must be stupid and brave! wink
  50. saag
    saag 19 September 2013 17: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Nursultan
    soon the place with the French will be releasing a three-radar radar

    Iraq in the first company also had French anti-ship missiles with radar, when it came to hot they were remotely disabled
    1. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 19 September 2013 21: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: saag
      Iraq in the first company also had French anti-ship missiles with radar, when it came to hot they were remotely disabled
      And-and-and ??! what Dear expert, does France pose any threat to Kazakhstan ??
      Is the 5 Republic, at least hypothetically, an adversary of the Republic of Kazakhstan ?!
      During the Falkland War, the French Exoset anti-ship missiles proved brilliant ..
      Quote: Nursultan
      soon the place with the French will be releasing a three-radar radar
      They cooperate with those who agree to transfer at least some technologies and localize production (assembly) in Kazakhstan. And, it is clear that not everyone will agree to this.
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 20 September 2013 07: 17 New
        +1
        Thales factory near Almaty by the way ...
      2. scientist
        scientist 22 September 2013 20: 38 New
        0
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Collaborate with those who agree to transfer at least some technologies and localize production (assembly) in Kazakhstan

        "Do not tell my slippers," they work only with those who give good kickbacks to the top. Is not it so?
        The same Thales after changing its leadership ceased to unfasten for radio stations, orders were immediately transferred to the Israeli company Tadiran. And Thales threw a bone with a radar, so as not to raise a scandal, but through a private desk Granite. It’s not difficult to guess that it’s not for the transfer of technology, but for the transfer of money into the necessary pockets of officials. After all, the technology of modern radar is not the stolen Ukrainian technology of modernizing the P-18. There you can’t do with Chinese computers.
        But still I wish you good luck in the difficult task of mastering technology and $. drinks