Military Review

From the Varangians to the Americans. Why did the United States lease a Swedish submarine?

87



... The AUG continuous control zone is a cylinder with a radius of 300 miles and a height from the seabed to low Earth orbits. Not a single aircraft, surface warship or enemy submarine has a chance to go unnoticed inside the guarded perimeter - in the event of real hostilities, their presence will be revealed, and the suspicious objects themselves will be immediately destroyed by the fire means of the ships and deck aviation.

Lords of the sea!

But why on the faces of the Yankees do not see cheeky smiles? Where did all the arrogance and the feeling of superiority go? Red eyes from tension, the sailors carefully peer into the sonar screens. There is something under the dark water ...

Houston, we have a problem!

The U.S. Navy command knew right away that the matter was abruptly wrong - in 2000, during an exercise off the coast of Hawaii, an Australian diesel-electric boat of the Collins type was able to break through the guards and freely entered the aircraft carrier group of the US Navy. Similar results were demonstrated by exercises in the Mediterranean - Israeli Dolphin-class submarines conditionally “sank” half of the Sixth fleet.

The Americans were helpless before the new threat.

Despite their contemptuous nickname, modern "diesel" turned into deadly opponents. Their small size and low noise level made the boats practically undetectable against the background of the sounds of the sea.

Unlike crashing nuclear ships, diesel-electric submarines have no itchy pumps that ensure the circulation of coolant in the reactor. They do not have turbo gear units and powerful refrigerating machines - only silent batteries and a quiet electric motor. Optionally - an air-independent installation, made on hydrogen fuel cells or as a Stirling engine, also working without internal explosions and strong vibrations.

Small size and power - all this reduces the thermal footprint and wetted surface of the boat. Noise decreases and stealth increases. The small mass of steel hull elements do not cause anomalies in the Earth’s magnetic field, preventing the boat from being detected by magnetic detectors.

A truly secretive, silent killer. Sea "black hole"!

The composition of weapons and a set of detection tools on board the diesel-electric submarines are in no way inferior to their older "colleagues" - nuclear-powered ships. Mine torpedo weapon, undersea-based cruise missiles, diving and special equipment - “diesel” are able to “pull three skins” from anyone who dares to poke into the coastal waters of their state.

However, they are relatively cheap (on average, 4-5 is on average cheaper than an atomic-powered vessel), numerous and, as a result, omnipresent. According to the calculations of the American command, in our days, diesel-electric submarines are in service with 39 countries of the world. More 300 diesel-electric submarines! - the coastal waters of Eurasia are literally teeming with these "fish", but the American fleet was never ready to face such a threat.

The Yankees themselves do not build diesel-electric submarines for one obvious reason - any conflicts always occur in the Old World, and to make war, the Americans are forced to drag across distant lands and three oceans. The US Navy has an unlimited budget and a pronounced offensive direction - of course, the choice was made in favor of the boats with a nuclear power plant. His last non-nuclear boat Yankees built in 1959 year (experimental submarine type SSK).

The meeting with the new threat made the Pentagon think over its own behavior and urgently adopt the DESI program (Diesel-Electric Submarine Initiative), aimed at developing measures to combat modern diesel-electric submarines.
From the middle of the 2000-x, the US Navy began to actively invite allies to the maneuvers - diesel-electric boats of the Brazilian, Chile, Colombia, Peru…

But one thing is to chase after the latest modifications of the “Type 209” - third-generation diesel-electric submarines, which are good in all respects, except one - every few days they are forced to rise to the surface.
And it is quite another thing - to meet with the ultra-modern diesel-electric submarines, equipped with an air-independent (anaerobic) propulsion system, dramatically extending the time under water. Such submarines go beyond the usual classification (diesel-electric submarines) and are classified as non-nuclear submarines (NNS).

To work out such a scenario, the US Navy decided to seek help from the allies and to lease the Swedish diesel-electric submarine HSwMS Gotland (Gtd) with a Stirling engine.

From the Varangians to the Americans

Gotland arrived in San Diego aboard the semi-submerged MV Eide Transporter platform in June 2005, the crew of 30 Swedish sailors was transferred to California by plane. It took a couple of weeks to acclimatize and adjust the balancing and submarine systems, originally designed for the cool, almost fresh waters of the Baltic, to the conditions of the great ocean.

And then it began ...

The next six months, the Third American fleet was intensely learning to search for a Swedish boat. Specialists of the US Navy meticulously studied the Gotland from the outside and inside, recorded its noise and parameters of thermal and electromagnetic fields.



A fantastic submarine rocked the Yankees imagination:
"Gotland" was extremely fast, powerful and most hidden. Six torpedo tubes, 18 torpedoes, the ability to set up 48 min.

Tiny crew, high automation and advanced detection systems.

The low mass of the hull, low-magnetic steel and 27 compensating electromagnets completely excluded the detection of the boat by magnetic anomaly detectors.

The noise background of the boat also exceeded all American expectations - thanks to a single all-mode electric motor and vibration isolation of all mechanisms, the Gotland was hardly detected even in close proximity to American ships, and the special hull cover, together with its small size, made Gotland difficult to detect. active sonars.
The boat simply merged with the natural thermal and noise background of the ocean.

From the Varangians to the Americans. Why did the United States lease a Swedish submarine?

Central Post (CP) of the submarine "Gotland"

But the most important thing is that the Swedish monster could remain continuously under water for two weeks (and, with an economical mode of oxidizer consumption, up to 20 days)!

Before the Americans was a masterpiece of technical progress. Invisible and invincible submarine, able to pass anywhere where there is seven feet under the keel, and perform any task, both in the coastal zone and in the open sea.

In the capabilities of their “adversary”, the Americans did not build illusions - back in 2003, during exercises in the Mediterranean, in a duel situation, the Swedish “Gotland” tracked down and conditionally “sank” the nuclear French boat and the American SSN-713 “Houston”. What made a real sensation.

This time everything happened in a similar way - despite the best efforts of the American anti-submarine forces, the Swedish boat stubbornly passed through all the cordons and found itself where it should not be.
The December 2005 of the year was the apotheosis - during the international exercises Joint Task Force Exercise 06-2, in which the US Navy Third Fleet was preparing to demonstrate everything that he had learned over the past year, a catastrophe occurred: led by the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan.



... Muffled puffing Stirling engines, recharging batteries; quietly humming electric motor. The submarine ship was crawling in a five-node way, scanning the water column ...
First of all, “Gotland” tracked down and conditionally “destroyed” the nuclear submarine - the only one who was a real threat to the Swedes. Multipurpose PLA was to ensure the safety of AUG from attacks from under the water and cover the "dead sector" under the heads of cruisers and destroyers. For which she died first.

Left without their own submarine cover, surface warships began to "die" one by one - the Gotland passed through the warrant like a blade blade, alternately moving closer to the American ships and taking their photos from various angles and distances. The Yankees found out about the presence of the boat, only when they saw a breaker from the periscope nearby - in real conditions, this would mean a pair of released self-guided torpedoes.
It was not possible to establish steady contact with the boat - the only way to stay alive was to leave the terrible square, i.e. disrupt the execution of the main task. AUG could not break through and strike at the chosen target.



The shocking results of the exercise led to the most serious consequences - the contract with Sweden was extended for another year. Gotland continued to serve in the Pacific, as an imitator of the "enemy" NNS.

The results of further maneuvers involving Gotland are sparingly estimated as “successful”: the American command thanks all the exercise participants, the Swedish sailors share their enthusiastic impressions of the visits to Disneyland and to the US Navy aircraft carriers (which is, however, the same thing).


Fairing infrared sonar AN / SQS-53 cruiser type "Ticonderoga"


It is obvious that in two years of close contact with the Gotland, American sailors learned a lot about the design, capabilities and tactics of using modern diesel-electric submarines, which is called first-hand. It is reported that the Yankees did not spare their own forces and the resource of a foreign submarine - only in the first year Gotland spent 4000 hours in the sea, instead of the ones laid down under the 2000 regulation. Certainly certain conclusions were made and measures were taken to counter the underwater threat.

Could the Yankees find an effective solution to the problem? Hardly. The secrecy of modern non-nuclear submarines is too high.

Stealth boats

The only excuse for American sailors - submarines, corresponding to the combat capabilities of "Gotland", are available in the composition of not every Navy. The circle of fourth generation naval base operators is limited mainly to developed countries, most of which are members of the NATO bloc:

- Sweden (three boats of the type "Gotland");

- Germany, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Turkey (the fleets of these countries use the German “Type-212” or export version “Type 214.” Very complex and expensive submarines with an air-independent installation on hydrogen elements);

- Israel (five “Dolphin” type boats of German construction, created on the basis of “Type 212”);

- Chile, Malaysia, India, Brazil (French-Spanish project "Skorpene"; India and Brazil will receive their ordered ships in the period 2014-2020);

- Spain (four boats under construction type S-80);

- Yu.Koreya (exploits German "Type 214");

- Japan (built on its own project boats "Soryu" with a Stirling engine).


Nimitz and South Korean boat San Von (type 214), Busan Naval Base

Nevertheless, the Yankees do not give rest to two dozen “Warsaw” women of the Soviet design, who bred around the world in the amount of 20 with more than one piece. The combat capabilities of the Varshavyanki are very close to the capabilities of fourth-generation boats (and according to a number of parameters - the depth of the dive, the ammunition, the composition of the weapons - are far superior to all foreign analogues). The only weakness is the limited power reserve in a submerged position, already on the third or fourth day Varshavyanka needs to ascend to the periscope depth to recharge the batteries.

In addition, Russia is conducting its own work on the creation of anaerobic propulsion systems for submarines — initially it was planned to equip the submarines of the 677 project (“Lada”) with such an engine. Alas, the main boat - B-585 "St. Petersburg", laid back in the distant 1997 year, was completed as a "regular" diesel-electric submarines. Impromptu did not go to the benefit of the ship - the B-585 was taken into trial operation of the Navy, but could not become a combat unit of the fleet (submerged speed - 60% of the calculated value).


M-305 (project 615), Odessa

In fact, not everything is as sad as it seems - after all, at one time the USSR was one of the world leaders in the field of creating air-independent power plants for the submarine fleet. It is enough to recall the 615 project - 29 series of small submarines (classification “M”, surface displacement / underwater displacement - 400 / 500 tons) equipped with equipment for operation of the submerged diesel engine (liquefied oxygen and carbon dioxide absorber).

Or diesel-electric C-273, re-equipped in 1980-ies according to the 613E “Katran” project - with the installation of an electrochemical power generator for underwater running.

Finally, air-independent propulsion systems will soon promise to appear on promising Russian boats, whose construction will be carried out according to the modernized 677 “Lada” project. The construction of "conventional" diesel-electric submarines will not be conducted anymore, quoting the former Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Vysotsky: "We do not need boats on the Second World War energy industry."

That's right. Russia needs non-nuclear submarines with anaerobic propulsion systems, like the Swedish Gotland - the most correct and effective investment for the speedy saturation of the fleet with new combat units. An ideal tool to combat enemy ships in the coastal zone and in open sea areas.


Video - "Gotland" in the service of the US Navy. Interview commander boat Frederick Linden for the news channel NBC4.

Summary of conversation:

Reporter: It looks like an ordinary submarine, but experts call it the most deadly boat in the world. This is a real threat and we were forced to seek help from Sweden.

Linden: It's dangerous to make too much noise in our work.

(R): Frederick Linden and 29 of his subordinates arrived at the Point-Loma naval base (San Diego) to help us deal with the new-generation submarines. Ordinary boats can not stay under water for a long time, but Gotland is equipped with a high-tech air-independent system.

(L): With an anaerobic (air-independent) engine, I can stay under water for weeks.

(R): The boat can stay under water for almost a month, but at the same time it is an incredibly secretive ship - all last summer the Navy had played cat and mouse with Gotland. The boat was able to conditionally sink our nuclear submarine and the largest nuclear aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan.

Norman Polmar, Naval Expert: The Gotland boat “cut circles” around our AUG without obstacles.

(R): Countries like North Korea, Iran and China are already working on creating such boats. With submarines like the Gotland, Iran can completely block tanker traffic in the Persian Gulf!

Polmarn: Yes, Iran is a real threat.

(R): Commander Linden understands how vulnerable the United States will be if Gotland falls into the hands of our enemies. (referring to Linden) Are there places on the North American coast where Gotland cannot penetrate?

Commander Linden shakes his head.



Based on:
http://www.navy.mil/
http://army-news.ru/
http://www.militaryphotos.net/
http://www.kockums.se/
http://nation.time.com/
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  1. Samy
    Samy 19 September 2013 09: 12
    +2
    A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....
    1. Santa Fe
      19 September 2013 09: 15
      11
      Quote: Samy
      A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....

      no pacific
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 19 September 2013 10: 57
        +7
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Dolphin-type Israeli submarines conditionally “sunk” half of the Sixth Fleet


        Or maybe not conditionally

        in the midst of the Six Day War, Israeli warplanes and ships attacked a U.S. reconnaissance ship with 292 sailors on board, killing 34 and injuring 171 crew members.
        On the afternoon of June 8, Israeli fighter jets, in low-level flight, fired rockets and onboard cannons at the Liberty without warning. This attack lasted 20 minutes. Rockets pierced the deck of the ship, killing and wounding dozens of sailors, and setting the ship on fire. Among the wounded was the captain of the ship, William McGonagle (William McGonagle).

        Then torpedo boats joined the attack. All attempts to signal the Israelis to end the attack were ignored. In response to these signals, Israeli boats fired torpedoes in the direction of the Liberty ship. One of them hit the ship in the place where the equipment for collecting intelligence is located; in this case, 25 American sailors were killed. Then the Israeli ships approached the Liberty at a distance from which it was impossible not to notice the ship's identification marks. They began to circle around the ship, pouring machine-gun fire on it and firing at sailors who were trying to put out the fires.

        "Liberty" was collecting water and tilted to one side, so the order was given to evacuate. When the sailors threw the rubber life rafts overboard, machine-gun fire was opened on them, so the crew had to abandon the rescue attempt and take cover under the deck. Only 16 hours later, two American destroyers reached the attacked ship and evacuated its crew. The surviving sailors were immediately banned from discussing the attack with anyone.

        years, the silence was broken by Lieutenant James Ennes (an officer with the Liberty), convincing evidence was presented of a cold-blooded attack by the Israelis of an American ship, this is his version of what happened.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 52
          -1
          Only half of those killed were killed by shelling - the Israelis were driven off by aircraft when their commandos had already slaughtered Americans on decks.
      2. Sakhalininsk
        Sakhalininsk 19 September 2013 15: 28
        11
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        no pacific


        In vain you are so, here it is necessary to raise the question of the threat to national security in the area of ​​responsibility of the Caspian flotilla bully
        This is of course a joke, but in fact the Swedish DPS is a very serious and dangerous enemy, and indeed the Swedish fleet in its waters can give out lyuley to any enemy, especially one who does not have the opportunity to organize a lifeless radioactive wasteland on the territory of the Scandinavian peninsula.
        1. Matio
          Matio 19 September 2013 19: 44
          0
          we must think about the Danube Flotilla ..
      3. Matio
        Matio 19 September 2013 19: 39
        +1
        NO, the Black Sea ...
      4. old man54
        old man54 20 September 2013 02: 45
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Quote: Samy
        A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....

        no pacific

        good laughing
      5. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 46
        -1
        not far there
  2. makst83
    makst83 19 September 2013 09: 14
    16
    It is very sorry and sad that the Komsomolets nuclear submarine died! At a depth of more than 600-700 meters (this is a working depth, and the maximum depth is up to 1250 meters!) NOBODY, NEVER would have found it! One such boat and that's it, PPC AUG! So no la-la: "The zone of continuous control of the AUG is a cylinder with a radius of 300 miles and a height from the seabed to low earth orbits. No aircraft, surface combat ship or submarine of the enemy has a chance to pass unnoticed inside the protected perimeter." , super-duper Swedish miracle .... it feels like Discovery has seen enough!
    1. ben gun
      ben gun 19 September 2013 09: 41
      +4
      At a depth of a kilometer there was simply NOTHING to get it.
      1. yanus
        yanus 19 September 2013 10: 42
        +1
        Quote: ben gun
        At a depth of a kilometer there was simply NOTHING to get it.

        But could he get someone with a weapon from a kilometer?
        At a depth of a kilometer, what was his search radius for surface targets?
        1. vyatom
          vyatom 19 September 2013 11: 30
          +9
          Quote: yanus
          could he get someone with a weapon from a kilometer?
          At a depth of a kilometer, what was his search radius for surface targets?

          During the exercises under the leadership of the commander Zelensky and the commander of the flotilla Chernov, after diving 1020 m, torpedoes were launched from 800 meters, and it was very successful.
        2. makst83
          makst83 19 September 2013 11: 32
          +8
          Each torpedo tube had an autonomous pneumohydraulic firing device. Shooting could be carried out at all depths of immersion.
          At this depth, nothing prevented him from looking for surface and underwater targets. It was installed GAK (hadroakk. Complex) SKAT-KS, the maximum range of target detection under normal hydrological conditions was 230 km.
          Thus, "Komsomolets" could lie down at a depth of 1 km, without fear of being discovered, and listen to the sea, waiting for the enemy to appear!))
        3. old man54
          old man54 20 September 2013 02: 50
          0
          Quote: yanus
          At a depth of a kilometer, what was his search radius for surface targets?

          a normal radius, but here, at this depth, beyond how many thermal layers, a jump would hardly have been detected if it had not rumbled like a steam engine. hi
          Quote: yanus
          But could he get someone with a weapon from a kilometer?

          Well, of course there was a problem, but they seemed to think something about it. Well, if the "Shkval" was invented, then a deep-water long-range thick torpedo would be invented!
      2. makst83
        makst83 19 September 2013 11: 16
        +4
        Did you hear anything from torpedoes with special ammunition !? For example, the Asashai MK48 mod4 or MK48 mod5-ADKAP (both torpedoes have a maximum travel depth of 914 meters). The first was adopted by the 1981, the second by the 1988.
        1. Old_kapitan
          Old_kapitan 19 September 2013 12: 57
          +4
          Did you hear anything from torpedoes with special ammunition !? For example, the Asashai MK48 mod4 or MK48 mod5-ADKAP (both torpedoes have a maximum travel depth of 914 meters). The first was adopted by the 1981, the second by the 1988.

          Firstly, a torpedo with SBP is a torpedo with a nuclear warhead and has no relation to the depth of the course. Secondly, getting into a relatively small nuclear submarine at a kilometer depth is somewhat more difficult than getting into an aircraft carrier on the surface. And thirdly, there is still severe arithmetic of the war, which I first read about with M.L. Galla in an article on ramming. So, to paraphrase it, exchanging a nuclear submarine for an aircraft carrier, whatever one may say, is profitable on all sides. Well, in the fourth (ibid.) There is also psychology. The Germans, knowing the possibility of ramming, during attacks violating the order, scattered and bombarded the white light, like a penny. It is also important at sea - to intimidate the enemy and thereby violate his plans.
          1. makst83
            makst83 19 September 2013 15: 00
            0
            read the branch of the dialogue!
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 September 2013 09: 31
            +2
            Quote: Old_Kapitan
            Firstly, a torpedo with SBP is a torpedo with a nuclear warhead and has no relation to the depth of the course. Secondly, getting into a relatively small nuclear submarine at a kilometer depth is somewhat more difficult than getting into an aircraft carrier on the surface. And thirdly, there is still the harsh arithmetic of war
            There are also fourths. It's strange that he didn't mention it. A nuclear submarine with a working depth of about a kilometer at a depth of about 300 m (where it is also almost inaccessible for observation) has a colossal margin of safety in the event that the enemy uses depth charges and other weapons of destruction "by area." A sort of analogue of booking
        2. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 32
          -1
          really the first then did not work at such a depth
    2. vyatom
      vyatom 19 September 2013 11: 27
      +5
      Quote: makst83
      It's a pity and sad that the Komsomolets nuclear submarine died! At a depth of more than 600-700 meters (this is a working depth, and the maximum depth is up to 1250 meters!) NOBODY, NEVER would have found it! One such boat and that's it, PPC AUG! So don't la-la: "

      At one time, the Kursk in the Mediterranean made the 6th Fleet's leadership worried, secretly conducting training attacks on all AUGs, which earned the fear and hatred of the US Navy leadership.
      1. vadim dok
        vadim dok 19 September 2013 21: 14
        0
        I ask for a link! Please!
    3. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 19: 49
      +1
      And why didn’t they continue building Komsomoltsev if he beat such a good one?
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 59
        -1
        because the best is sacrificed.
  3. Old_kapitan
    Old_kapitan 19 September 2013 09: 27
    +4
    The meeting with the new threat made the Pentagon think over its own behavior and urgently adopt the DESI program (Diesel-Electric Submarine Initiative), aimed at developing measures to combat modern diesel-electric submarines.

    Not that they thought:
    The Yankees themselves do not build diesel-electric submarines for one obvious reason - any conflicts always occur in the Old World, and in order to fight, the Americans are forced to trudge over distant lands and three oceans.

    No need to meddle with your snout in the ranks - and you will be happy!
  4. rolik
    rolik 19 September 2013 09: 29
    +8
    Some info about Gotland.
    Submarines of the Gotland type are the world's first serial submarines with a combined diesel-electric and auxiliary air-independent Stirling-generator power plant. The initial displacement of the submarine was increased by 200 tons, and the length of the submarine - by 7,5 m, to accommodate an air-independent electric power plant. It is assumed that 90% of the time the submarine will move during the operation of the Stirling generators and only 10% of the time - under the diesel generator. From the previously created submarines of the Vastergotland type (project / * 17), the Gotland submarines, in addition to the combined power plant, differ in the new CSU- 90-2, reduced levels of physical fields (acoustic, magnetic and thermal), increased service life (30 years), and KOH, as well as larger volumes for equipment and supplies and less dependence on onshore support systems. Installation of an auxiliary air-independent power plant increased the time submerged submarine stay 7 times (up to 14 days) compared to conventional submarine submarines. Although the maximum output power of each Stirling generator is 75 kW, the actual operating power is only 65 kW. With the expenditure for life support of the submarine - 75-85 kW, no more than 45-55 kW remains to ensure the movement. The submarine provides for the volumes for the placement of the third Stirling generator (not installed due to financial constraints). The total supply of cryogenic oxygen in two tanks is 24 tons, the weight of one Stirling generator is 4 tons (manufactured by Kockums, subcontractors Volvo and FFV).
    Torpedo submarines of the Gotland type are the first submarines equipped with an ASBU of the SESUB 940A type (9 SCS MKZ of the "Celsius Tech" company). The ASBU includes three multifunctional consoles type IID f. "Terma" for command, control, communication and control of weapons, provides tracking of 95 targets simultaneously. ASBU is connected to the local network "Ethernet" and uses software in the "Ada" language.
    The general ship monitoring system (developed by ABB) includes a submarine maneuvering console (Van Rietschoten amp; Houwens, Netherlands), similar to those used on Dutch Walrus-type submarines (heading, submersion depth, submarine displacement, RPM rotation frequency are controlled); depth and safety console (control of immersion, ascent, movement in RDP mode; control of the hull integrity and bilge water pumping is carried out); motion control panel (control and monitoring of the GED, DGU, Stirling-generators and AB). The first two consoles are located in the CPU, the last in the aft compartment. It is planned to install a SK038 type periscope with an infrared image system f. "Pilkington Optronic", operating in the range of 8-12 microns. In the longer term, it is planned to install optoelectronic periscopes that do not penetrate into the PC. TA submarines provide torpedo firing with self-release.
    1. rolik
      rolik 19 September 2013 09: 32
      +6
      Everything did not fit, further.
      In 1998, additional work was carried out at a cost of 335 million dollars. on adapting the ASBU for firing the latest heavy universal torpedoes of type 62 (Torpedo 2000) and light universal torpedoes of type 45 (43X2). In the future, the submarine can be armed with new light torpedoes of the 46 type and, possibly, cruise missiles of the Rb-15 type for firing at coastal targets. The submarine of the Gotland type has a single-hull design, an X-shaped aft tail and conning tower bow horizontal rudders, a 7-blade rowing screw. The body is made of OX-812 steel and lined with anti-sonar coating. To ensure the required secrecy of the submarine when moving under the air-independent propulsion device, devices are provided to prevent the formation of bubble and heat traces. During the operation of Stirling generators, the detection of submarines is difficult due to the "clean" fuel and the high degree of combustion of its components. The submarine is equipped with a system for automatic control of the magnetic field levels and control of the demagnetizing device. The demagnetization of the submarine is performed taking into account the real (at a given point) magnetic field of the Earth. (On previous submarines - based on maps of the Earth's magnetic field). Magnetic field sensor f. "Polyamp" is located in the bow of the PMU fence.
      A very interesting boat in technical terms, although I didn’t particularly focus on diesels.
  5. shark
    shark 19 September 2013 10: 02
    +1
    We started for health, but finished for peace. Yes, Iran is a problem))))) they are amers .. they feel that the whole world hates them
    1. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 19: 59
      -3
      The whole world is Russia, S. Korea, Syria and Iran. And the rest are fools. A good company!
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 59
        -1
        whole latin america yet. Almost all of Africa and Asia, Japan, half of Europe. Australia and Canada put their teeth through their teeth. France after WW2 filed a lawsuit against them for carpet bombing.
  6. Samy
    Samy 19 September 2013 10: 07
    +1
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: Samy
    A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....

    no pacific


    What is it like ? Will Vladivostok be threatened from Stockholm? It may still be Baltic, but it is not serious now ...
    1. Santa Fe
      19 September 2013 10: 25
      +7
      Quote: Samy
      What is it like ? Will Vladivostok be threatened from Stockholm?

      And Murmansk, and Vladivostok, and even the Caspian flotilla
      1. old man54
        old man54 20 September 2013 02: 56
        +2
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Quote: Samy
        What is it like ? Will Vladivostok be threatened from Stockholm?

        And Murmansk, and Vladivostok, and even the Caspian flotilla

        Well, what, Oleg, you can threaten, fist and from the hatchway, even the Aral Sea, even the "fleet" of Lake Baikal! wink laughing What is attached to a person then. crying
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 39
          -1
          with the sectional assembly of such boats in the Caspian - quite. In Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan, US forces have been deployed for more than 10 years. including in order to interrupt communications with Iran in case of what.
  7. ka5280
    ka5280 19 September 2013 10: 25
    +1
    Iran 3-4 such boats for the New Year to give, so that the next year the world would meet without matraslend =)
    1. Santa Fe
      19 September 2013 10: 29
      +3
      Who will give them something? The Russian Federation does not even have such developments. But the Swedes and Germans didn’t get it
      1. ka5280
        ka5280 19 September 2013 10: 37
        +3
        In Russia there are such developments. There are also more artful ideas. But financing is not always good. And so Russian science is still alive!
        1. avt
          avt 19 September 2013 11: 02
          10
          Quote: ka5280
          In Russia there are such developments. There are also more artful ideas.

          Yeah . Here at least one eye to see what is being done on "Sarov", but it seems that just for the attempt both eyes will be knocked out. laughing
          1. rolik
            rolik 19 September 2013 12: 24
            +9
            Quote: avt
            Yeah . Here is at least one eye to see what is happening on "Sarov",

            laughing
            On Sarov (originally Sargan) было, I highlight this word, until recently.
            The Kristall-27 power plant created by SKBK on the basis of fuel cells, which allows extending the autonomous scuba diving period of the boat up to 60-90 days. This installation is distinguished by cryogenic and intermetallic storage of oxygen and hydrogen, as well as a low-temperature electrochemical generator with an alkaline matrix electrolyte.
            October 29, 2012 Sarov went to sea to test an experimental hydrogen engine. It is planned to install similar engines on diesel submarines of Project 677 Lada and its export version Amur-1650. The installation of such an engine on the Amur, personally, I think is not necessary, let the Chinese brothers invent their own engine. The principle of operation of these engines is that the boat's electric motor will receive current not from storage batteries, but from hydrogen-based fuel cells.
          2. Current 72
            Current 72 20 September 2013 02: 58
            0
            Yes, and they will kick the ass, that would not be disgraceful!
  8. tlauicol
    tlauicol 19 September 2013 10: 32
    +5
    These are the T-shirts that the Valrus submariners have worn since 99, when they managed to conditionally sink the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt twice and escape undetected. And in total during the exercises 9 !!! ships - count: 23 Feb - 2 Mar 1999: Walrus (2) participates, among other NATO navies and the Brazilian navy, in the exercise JTFEX / TMDI99.

    JTFEX / TMDI99 stands for Joint Task Force Exercise / Theater Missile Defense Initiative 1999. The exercise is held in the Caribbean and on the US main land and has 27000 participants, of which 15000 are naval participants. This exercise is the biggest gathering of forces since the Gulf-war, is held from 1 Feb to 4 Mar 1999. The T-shirt that was designed by the Walrus (2) crew to celebrate the 'sinking' of US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt ...


    During this exercise the Walrus (2) penetrates the US screen and 'sinks' many ships, including the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T-shirt. Other ships that are sunk by the Walrus (2) during this exercise are: USS Boise SSN-764, Ro? M DDG-70, R? DDG-61, Ville De Quebec FFH / FFG-332, Stephen W. Grooves FFG-29, Holstein F-216, Vella Gulf CG-55, Mount Whitney LCC-20.
    among them: a nuclear aircraft carrier, a nuclear submarine, a command ship (the same "Mount Whitney"), a cruiser, two destroyers, three frigates (American, Canadian and German). Such a glorious "Walrus"!
    link to their website http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_walrus2.htm[center]
    1. Santa Fe
      19 September 2013 10: 36
      +2
      this is the netherlands
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 19 September 2013 10: 50
        +3
        Well, it’s clear that it’s not the Zulus. On a stirling boat, they did this before the Swedes!
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 19 September 2013 19: 15
        +1
        Oleg, correct: the French and American nuclear-powered ships (well, the Spanish diesel-electric submarines in addition) were "sunk" by Halland, also a Swede
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 19 September 2013 19: 35
      +4
      Quote: Tlauicol
      And in total during the exercises 9 !!! ships
      As many as nine? It's cool, where are ours before them ... For its first autonomous system of the head "Bars" 971 project brought only 74 contacts. wink And he himself was never discovered. Although ALL NATO forces were awaiting him at the North Cape-Medvezhy PLO line ... request
      1. vadim dok
        vadim dok 19 September 2013 21: 15
        +1
        I ask for a link! Please!
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 19 September 2013 23: 30
          0
          Quote: vadim dok
          I ask for a link!
          An extract from the top-secret logbook of the ship? belay Or from the order of the commander of the flotilla (also secret) according to the results of this campaign? How do you imagine that? winked
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 20 September 2013 04: 36
        0
        74 pins? and all with warships only? and all with different? I take my word if there are no other docs.
  9. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 19 September 2013 10: 40
    +3
    We don't have AUG. The main targets in our fleet are SSBNs. The areas of their deployment for non-nuclear submarines are either inaccessible or located at a great distance, the underwater speed does not allow pursuing or escorting SSBNs. We have nothing special to fear from nuclear submarines. It is necessary and beneficial to have your own to oppose the AUG, amphibious groups, actions in the coastal and Mediterranean seas. But it should be remembered that in the event of a "big" war, for Russia everything will be decided on land.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 19 September 2013 19: 39
      +5
      Quote: chunga-changa
      it should be remembered that in the event of a "big" war, for Russia everything will be decided on land.
      EVERYTHING on land for Russia will be resolved ONLY if EVERYTHING is resolved before that in areas of combat patrol of SSBNs. Moreover, in their favor, which is doubtful. So the beginning of the underwater "Rubilov" in high latitudes can be considered the beginning of the 3rd World War ... request
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 19 September 2013 21: 35
        -2
        Here another was meant. The exchange of air and missile strikes without a ground operation is a stalemate in itself. The future war is seen as a limited nuclear attack on Russia, followed by ground operations. Otherwise, everything would depend on the ability of our fleet to carry out amphibious assault and supply to the territory of the United States, followed by ground operation and occupation of the territory. In this case, for us everything would be decided at sea.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 19 September 2013 23: 33
          +2
          Quote: chunga-changa
          The future war is seen as a limited nuclear attack on Russia, followed by ground operations
          I can’t imagine the ruler of Russia, who in response to this turns out to be SO pacifist, that he would not give an order for an adequate response to the aggressor request
          1. chunga-changa
            chunga-changa 20 September 2013 00: 45
            0
            The modern doctrine of warfare by the United States provides for actions to reflect an "adequate response", specifically for this America withdrew from the ABM Treaty. If you cannot imagine something, or you are not pleased to do it, it does not mean that your opponent will not present or do it.
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 20 September 2013 19: 30
              +3
              Quote: chunga-changa
              If you cannot imagine something, or you are not pleased to do it, does not mean that your opponent will not present it or do it.

              Oh how! And for what, one wonders, we are deploying SPRN, we are improving A-135, we are developing C-500, well, and as it should be for a zealous owner, we are preparing all sorts of gifts for the thief in a reciprocal-onward strike, such as Yars, Topol-M, Bulava, Sineva, etc. .
              Apparently they represent in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation all the subconnected and insidious nature of our opponents who have withdrawn from the ABM Treaty in the hope of obtaining an impenetrable shield-ABM. But about the reflection of the space rocket (mind you - not an air!) Attack, they had a long debate, but mathematicians said: seams! rpkSN value is variable, therefore, we cannot guarantee the interception of 80-90% ICBMs! Not enough reaction time! Therefore, they climbed into the Ocean with their Ajis and PR BLOCK-2,3. They have one task - SLBMs of our Boreevs and the remaining 667 BDRMs on the accelerating section of the trajectory (RTH).
    2. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 45
      -1
      NATO AIP-boat bases are near so there is something to be afraid of off their coast. in remote areas of the Ocean, their bases or floating bases (AUG) are also there and they can transfer the herded SSBNs there in a chain, as the F18 does during Tu-95 flights "around the corner".
  10. USNik
    USNik 19 September 2013 11: 22
    +2
    Not a single aircraft, surface warship or enemy submarine has a chance to go unnoticed inside the guarded perimeter - in the event of real hostilities, their presence will be revealed, and the suspicious objects themselves will be immediately destroyed
    Nude nude. Although Tom Clancy is still a dreamer, he also suspected something in 1986. repeat . This is me at the expense of his Red Storm, where the Tu-22m Granites smashed into the trash three AUG soldier wink So we also have something to answer to the Junkers, only a little differently.
    1. Ruslan
      Ruslan 19 September 2013 17: 25
      +3
      not granites, but x-22
    2. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 20: 18
      0
      Well, AUG proved that this is a real Disneyland. And why is Russia building Wikemardia, Kuzya and the like?
      1. Santa Fe
        19 September 2013 22: 03
        +2
        Quote: Matio
        And why is Russia building Wikemardia, Kuzya and the like?

        Kuznetsov, like all TAVKRs, is the fruit of admiration for the West; in fact, such a ship was nafig neither the USSR nor the Russian Federation

        Indian Vikra - Hindus wanted to become a "great sea power" and to indulge their pride (a repetition of the senseless South American dreadnought race of the early XNUMXth century)
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 24
          -1
          the fruit of Russia / Soviet Union confinement policy, see the wiki for "China confinement policy", only carried out not by the State Department but by "their" rulers.
          more precisely, the fruit of when this policy bent a little
          Russian should not have tactical aviation beyond the coast, as well as overseas friends, allies, interests, protection of compatriots. Sit on permafrost and do not star until you and there have come ..
          In which case, the surface fleet will be drowned without being allowed to reach the launch line of the anti-ship missile launcher on the AUG, the underwater fleet is cut off by hydrophones and lidars from satellites. The range of carrier-based anti-submarine aviation is 1700 miles. In which case buoys sow the entire ocean and all.
          The fleet is driven under water, the buoyancy theory of the submarine does not take into account the change in the volume of the solid hull with depth, the boats are sinking.
          Threw you into the pockets of lice everywhere. In the hands, and zashivorot.
          For some reason, aircraft carriers are inexpensive to Hindus and Thailand, and the latter does not even have leased submarines.
    3. old man54
      old man54 20 September 2013 03: 04
      +2
      Quote: USNik
      This is me at the expense of his Red Storm, where Tu-22m Granites smashed into the trash three AUG

      ASM Granit was developed only for underwater launch. You have already been answered below (X-22). hi
  11. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 19 September 2013 11: 41
    +2
    It would be nice to have such small silent submarines on SSBNs, well, something like big torpedo tubes. Delivered to the place, and there - assassin attack.
  12. a52333
    a52333 19 September 2013 12: 06
    +7
    Thanks to the author for the article. I really liked it. These fears of amers were reflected in the film to remove the periscope 15 years ago.
  13. rudolff
    rudolff 19 September 2013 12: 18
    +8
    The presence of the NAPL in the Russian fleet is no less important than the nuclear submarines. Black, Baltic, Barents, Norwegian, Northern, Okhotsk, Japanese, all these seas can be controlled by non-nuclear boats without any problems. If PMTO remains in Tartus, then the Mediterranean. With the presence of PMT in Venezuela or Cuba, the Caribbean, in Vietnam, South China. Unfortunately, all this is not in the near future. The anaerobic unit is not ready and its deadline is postponed annually. At the second and third building of the Lada project, at best, new batteries will appear. If the Indians in the near future finally move their tender 75i, we fly there like plywood over Paris, losing to Scorpen for the second time in a row.
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 31
      -1
      Do you think she’s not ready for anything? There is nothing complicated there. By technology and materials - 17/18 century.
  14. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 19 September 2013 13: 03
    0
    Infa recently slipped, during the exercises, the Germans drowned the entire AUG on their 212 in the rubbish, and the Americans did not even notice them.

    Similarly, during exercises in the Pacific Ocean, the Japanese Soryu also performed a whole AUG. So the Americans started to sleep. True, they were lucky that only their allies have such weapons ... I somehow offered to exchange Japan for the technologies of the Soryu project in exchange for the Kuril Islands.
    1. old man54
      old man54 20 September 2013 03: 07
      +2
      Quote: Kibalchish
      I like that offered to exchange the technologies of the Soryu project from Japan in exchange for the Kuril Islands.

      you ooohromny minus from me, it is a pity that only one is possible !!! angry
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 32
        -1
        he is bad
        just called kibalchish
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 20 September 2013 19: 52
      +4
      Quote: Kibalchish
      I somehow offered to exchange the technologies of the Soryu project from Japan in exchange for the Kuril Islands.

      On the subject of "Crystal", a light dawned at the end of the tunnel. So soon we will have our own, different from the western ones, anaerobic installation, but with bound, not cryogenic oxygen. which is much safer. It's time for you to change your nickname to "Bad Boy".
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 05
        -1
        yes indeed - why not exchange Hokkaido for his opu.
        such an installation is much more complicated.
  15. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 19 September 2013 14: 03
    +6
    Covering a boat with variable-density silicone plastic (and it has become so simple that they sell similar coatings for cars online ... not so thick, of course smile ) instead of rubber can significantly reduce the noise of anything. In the competition "shell and armor" in this case, the shell is in the lead by a huge margin.
  16. barbiturate
    barbiturate 19 September 2013 15: 00
    +6
    Great boat Gotland, no question, NAPL is generally on the rise thanks to anaerobic installations. Here are just the flaws, too, are visible, because the same Gotland or other modern NPLs are almost submarine barges with torpedoes. They go at a speed of 3-5 knots, i.e. they need autonomy in a propulsion system in order to stay in one position for a long time, real estate. Want a description of Gotland's victories? The goals moved and actively searched for her, and she stupidly moved with 5 nodal moves and realized the gap in noise resulting from this. Or moved to an aircraft carrier order with the same 5 knots and broke through its defense. Hence the question, dear Oleg, what do you think, if the apl say the 3rd generation, move at a speed of 5 knots, and say Virginia would look for it at 15 knots, who would win?
    It seems to me that Gotland worked in all simulated situations like a sea mine, woe to the one who runs into it because of course she will discover the target first. But only the Americans are obviously cunning and do not provide data, has the so-called FOSS been deployed in the area of ​​Gotland? After all, for such a system that Gotland, that the project boat 941 is the same thing) This system took Virginia from 35km to escort.
    Here is an example quote:
    A group of three ships of the LCS type, having deployed the ADS system and having onboard towed emitters for illumination of LFAS targets and anti-submarine helicopters, is capable of monitoring the water area with a total area of ​​more than 30 000 square x miles (96 100 km 2, which is a square with a side 310 km).

    Not a single large underwater target as a result of the application of this system can go unnoticed.
    1. Santa Fe
      19 September 2013 22: 28
      +1
      Quote: barbiturate
      after all, the same Gotland or other modern submarines are practically submarine barges with torpedoes

      figasse
      Quote: barbiturate
      Go at a speed of 3-5 knots

      In general, she has a maximum speed of 20+
      3-5 - economic speed, creep mode
      Quote: barbiturate
      The goals moved and actively searched for her, and she stupidly moved with 5 nodal moves and realized the gap in noise resulting from this

      What does not suit such tactics?
      Quote: barbiturate
      what do you think, if apl say 3rd generation, moved at a speed of 5 knots, and say Virginia would look for her at 15 knots, who would win?

      PLA "Houston" (Los Angeles) in a duel situation blew; like his French counterpart "Rube"

      I don’t know about Virginia, she’s at least 10 years older than Gotland
      Quote: barbiturate
      It seems to me that Gotland worked in all simulated situations like a sea mine, woe to the one who comes up for it will certainly find the target first

      Yes, he did not rush about like crazy over the ocean, but covered the square entrusted to him
      Why not tactics to protect the coast or sea lanes?
      Quote: barbiturate
      FOSS in the area of ​​action of Gotland?

      Really SOSUS?))
      Quote: barbiturate
      A group of three ships of the LCS type, deploying an ADS system

      Nothing that LCS appeared 15 years later than Gotland? wink
      In addition, it is unlikely that a surface ship full of / and 2500 tons will be able to work effectively in open sea areas

      "a group of three LCS ships" - this is all the LCS of the US Navy for 2013. Whereas Gotland entered service in 1996
      1. barbiturate
        barbiturate 21 September 2013 05: 17
        0
        in many ways, I agree with you, it's just that the tactics of a sea mine are given a square and you cover it.
        FOSS systems are deployed not only on surface, but also on submarines). Just while the enemy is absent from the amers, but they quickly learn.
  17. Delta
    Delta 19 September 2013 15: 42
    11
    "The apotheosis was December 2005 - during the international exercises Joint Task Force Exercise 06-2, at which the US Navy's Third Fleet was preparing to demonstrate everything it had learned over the past year, a disaster occurred: the little Varangian" interrupted "the entire seventh carrier strike group, led by the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan. "

    Oleg, your tendency to pathos and loud statements in this case brings you again. For one thing - CONDITIONALLY attack i.e. to photograph at the periscope, following a five-node move, possibly without even opening the covers of the TA, and it is quite another thing to attack realistically. By this, I want to say that torpedo firing of even the quietest submarine, even using the self-propelled torpedo method (which, by the way, is NOT implemented on the NPL), entails noise and detection of the submarine, which means it will most likely be destroyed. She can and will manage to do her job, but, firstly, for some reason you did not indicate that there are countermeasures against torpedoes going to the ship, and most importantly, you did not indicate that after the volley it will have to reload the vehicles and 4-6 torpedoes from the first salvo will go to the target (if the 400 mm torpedoes are also included here). Give her time to recharge? oh hardly. Thus, at best, she will be able to destroy 1-2 ships from the group, but she will not kill everyone with impunity. Our submarines can do the same, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the penetration of an AUG into a warrant.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 19 September 2013 19: 19
      +4
      Quote: Delta
      Oleg, your tendency to pathos and loud statements in this case brings you again.


      That's right, but as mmmm poses
    2. Santa Fe
      19 September 2013 21: 28
      +2
      Quote: Delta
      For one thing - CONDITIONALLY attack i.e. to photograph at the periscope, going in a five-node stroke

      The boat merely demonstrated that it was capable of attacking any chosen Protinik compound ship
      Quote: Delta
      entails noise and the detection of a submarine, which means it is most likely to be destroyed.

      This does not mean that they can maintain long contact with her.
      Quote: Delta
      for some reason did not indicate that there are countermeasures against torpedoes going to the ship

      this is a topic for another article
      Quote: Delta
      Thus, at best, she will manage to destroy 1-2 ships from the group, but she will not kill everyone with impunity

      It is clear that in reality no one will destroy the entire connection of ships of a single NPL

      Let him fire one volley and sink one of the Berks, in a day another "diesel-lover" will crash the Ohio SSGN - and that's it, the strategic operation is thwarted, there is nothing to do without Tomahawks

      ..and it still knows how to put mines, here it will be fun!
      Quote: Delta
      which means it is most likely to be destroyed.

      War is like war. In the end, the "exchange" of Burke for the NAPL is more than fair
      Quote: Delta
      and 4-6 torpedoes from the first salvo will go to the target (if 400 mm torpedoes are also included here)

      These are irrelevant trifles
      For example, the German Type209 has 8 TA caliber 533 mm

      Nobody is going to copy Gotland. Gotland - an already obsolete design (tab - 1992, commissioned in 1996). The main thing - there is a precedent, and this must be repelled

      Muzzle of the Argentine submarine "San Luis" (Type 209). Aha, how many barrels !!
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 22
        +3
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        This does not mean that they can maintain long contact with her.

        Oleg, TA duty officers shoot at the NMC without any preparation, simply by confirmed contact. So, there are few chances, unless you immediately put the GPA and start post-salvo maneuvering.
        Yes, there are few torpedoes for AVU 1-4! It will undoubtedly receive damage, but it will not go to the bottom, if not SBP.
    3. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 09
      +2
      Quote: Delta
      firing torpedoes of even the quietest submarine, even using the self-propelled torpedo method (which, incidentally, is NOT implemented on the NPL), entails noise and detection of the submarine, which means it will most likely be destroyed.

      Bravo, Vyacheslav! This is what the practical experience of submarine means in comparison with tereoterization of even a very clever, but "float"!
      Otherwise, I agree to all 100%.
  18. rudolff
    rudolff 19 September 2013 16: 31
    +4
    Of course, it’s not worth idealizing NAPL, but they will give odds to nuclear-powered submarines in all the main parameters of secrecy. Less noise, less created electromagnetic field, no radioactive trace, less wake and thermal. Although with regard to the thermal footprint in relation to boats with Stirling engines, the issue is somewhat controversial. Excess heat must be removed somewhere.
    Regarding the example of the successful penetration of our submarines into the AUG order, I have a counter question, but how can you not get in there? If the boat’s actions are not provocative or aggressive, who will forbid it to portray a sperm whale even under the aircraft carrier itself? Not in the zone of military conflict, of course. Well, they can throw a little grenades or simulators of deep bombs, or take a hook at the HACK, or maybe not. Was the boat discovered or not, the Americans did not give us receipts.
    1. Santa Fe
      19 September 2013 22: 14
      +1
      Quote: rudolff
      Although with regard to the thermal footprint for boats with Stirling engines, the issue is somewhat controversial

      A submarine with a 190 MW reactor delivers 45 million cal / s of seawater at a speed of 5 knots; this dissipated heat raises the water temperature directly behind the submarine by less than 0,2 ° C. Due to the mixing of a warm stream with surrounding water, this difference temperature decreases rapidly. At a distance of 1 km behind the submarine moving from 5k speed, it already amounts to only 0,01 ° C

      In the case of the Stirling engine, the bill goes only hundreds of kilowatts - 100 times lessthan the thermal power of the PLA reactor
      Quote: rudolff
      Regarding the example of the successful penetration of our nuclear submarines into the AUG order, I have a counter question, but how can you not get in there?

      boat penetrated undetected
      that’s the focus
      Quote: rudolff
      Was the boat discovered or not, the Americans did not give us receipts.

      How is it not handed?
      According to the results of "successful exercises", they extended the lease contract for the Swedish boat for another year. Think simple?

      In the month of October 2006, Kitty Hawk and her escort warships were undergoing exercises near Okinawa, and a Chinese Song class submarine shadowed the group then surfaced within 5 mi (8.0 km) of the group on October 26, 2006
      Another similar case. This time, a Chinese submarine surfaced 5 miles from the Kitty Hawk, which had previously remained undetected
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 19 September 2013 23: 48
        +3
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        PLA with a reactor with a capacity of 190 MW, delivers 45 million cal / s to sea water at a speed of 5 knots
        This is with a fright? Unless the kooky reinsurer, the operator will unscrew the installation power to the maximum, dumping excess power through the etching valve. lol Shipborne nuclear plants are capable of changing power VERY quickly. So in real life, if fast high-speed maneuvering is not required, the operator keeps the power reserve somewhere a couple of percent higher than is currently required, or even completely removes the power gap "to zero". I do not remember exactly how much power is required on single-shaft, but for 667 BDR (BDRM), 20-25% of the nominal was enough to ensure such a move above the head, moreover, the installation of one side. And if you go under the propeller motors, turning off the main turbines, then 5% of the nominal 90 MW would be enough above your head. So, however, no one walks, and the minimum power by order is limited to 18%
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 19 September 2013 23: 58
          +5
          While Oleg wrote the answer, Misantrop got ahead. And there’s nothing special to add. A boat with a Stirling heat engine leaves a larger thermal footprint than an apl at low speeds.
        2. Santa Fe
          20 September 2013 01: 03
          0
          Quote: Misantrop
          So, true, no one walks, and the minimum power by order is limited to 18%

          Okay, 190 x 18% = 34 MW

          Gotland, 2 Stirling, max. power 200 hp (0,15 MW)

          And?
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 September 2013 10: 04
            0
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Okay, 190 x 18% = 34 MW

            Gotland, 2 Stirling, max. power 200 hp (0,15 MW)

            And?

            And nothing. The lion's share of this power is generated in turbines, i.e. it is required to cool not overheated steam with a temperature of 310 degrees, but actually boiling water (at the inlet to the main condensers, the temperature is about 100) to about 40-50 at the suction of condensate pumps. In real life, it turns out that the thermal effect of the submarine is no longer determined by heating, but by the mixing of water layers during the passage of the submarine. The somewhat larger dimensions of the nuclear submarine are fully compensated by its hull shape, which is oriented specifically towards the underwater course (in contrast to the submarine, which is forced to have more "surface" outlines). So, in fact, the thermal effect is practically the same and not great (on these moves, of course).

            And yet, those 18% that I mentioned appeared in connection with the terms of reference for the development of the "Brig-M" CPS (automatic control and protection system for nuclear reactors, pr. 667). Those. the standard CPS simply could not guarantee reliable automatic control of the nuclear reactor power at a lower power, it was considered unnecessary. What requirements were put forward to the designers of newer installations, I do not know. In addition, on our specific RPK SN, when accepting the ship, we put the squeeze on the plant so much in this respect that our control system kept the power perfectly and at 2% of the nominal, which we later used. To be honest, it was a shock for us ourselves when we found out that in the mode of the unit's withdrawal after returning to the base to provide the turbine generator and the chiller in the WBO mode and greatly reduced steam parameters (the so-called "mode of washing steam generators with wet steam", when the boiling zone in them shifts a lot) is enough ... those same 2% of the reactor power. This is despite the fact that the ATG was under a load of about 1000A. It is clear that we didn’t freak out at sea ... winked
            1. Santa Fe
              20 September 2013 15: 02
              +1
              Thanks, Inters

              The conclusion was as follows: there is no direct connection between the operating mode of the switchgear and the power on the shafts; it all depends on the power take-off

              But there was one question left: if everything is so kosher, why are reactors with thermal capacities of 100 and 200 MW installed in PLA so wastefully and inefficiently? To take off at a certain moment more power? But how often do such cases occur?
              Quote: Misantrop
              The somewhat larger dimensions of the nuclear submarine are fully compensated by its hull shape, which is oriented specifically towards the underwater course (in contrast to the submarine, which is forced to have more "surface" outlines).

              long-suffering Elk - the most modest of serial submarines - length 110, width 10 meters)

              German Type212 - length 57 meters, width 7 meters
              and you call it "a little more" ?!



              About the contours: what is the difference between Type212, for example, from the Estyut submarine (by the way, what for does Estew have such body contours?)
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 20 September 2013 22: 33
                +1
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Why are reactors so wastefully and inefficiently installed with thermal power of 100 and 200 MW each? To take off at a certain moment more power?
                With an increase in travel speed, the required power also increases VERY significantly. And other ship systems also have a fair amount of "appetite", especially for strategists. Well, tactical nuclear submarines are tasked with finding and chasing both underwater and surface opponents. And is the slug capable of keeping up with the connection with a 30-knot stroke? Moreover, using the "wolf pack method" will not work, it is too expensive a pleasure. Again, there is the concept of "reactor campaign", i.e. the amount of energy that it is capable of delivering before recharging the core. Roughly speaking - a year at maximum speed or 10 years by 10%. So there is, as it were, a little extravagance, the motorist also rarely rides with a "slipper on the floor" wink
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                long-suffering Elk - the most modest of serial submarines - length 110, width 10 meters)

                Well, why, the 705 project with the same width was only 81,4 m long, streamlined in a drop-shaped form. And with a power of 152 mW (rather than 155, Vicki is lying wink ) issued 42-odd knots of underwater running. By the way, nuclear weapons at this time worked at 85% of the power. And they were also serial.

                And the contours, so you brought the silhouette of a submarine with VNEU. She has the main mode of movement - also underwater, including - and under the RPD in the periscope position. Naturally, it will be reminiscent of the appearance of a nuclear submarine ... And due to power limitations, the designer’s installations are forced to reduce displacement, equipment, living conditions, etc. to the limit. has not only its cabins, but also its beds? Sleeping in shifts
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                what for does Estew have such body contours?
                This is how the British "Kulibins" organized the control of the bow rudders wassat In general, a rare absurd project turned out IMHO
                1. rudolff
                  rudolff 21 September 2013 00: 01
                  +1
                  Perhaps, such a flat-lowered geometry of the bow of the Englishwoman's hull suggests an increase in hydrodynamic pressure on the bow rudders and their "flooding" when moving on the surface.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 21 September 2013 00: 13
                    +2
                    Quote: rudolff
                    the flat-lowered geometry of the bow of the Englishwoman's hull implies an increase in hydrodynamic pressure on the bow rudders and their "flooding" when moving on the surface.
                    Hardly. Too high they are. Most likely, they simply did not want to place the rudder drives inside a sturdy case. Yes, and the very appearance of this masterpiece of shipbuilding does not seem to imply surface movement. This is hinted at by the non-retractable rudder design and the lack of glazing. Just a rising visor. IMHO there is very uncomfortable the officer in charge will be in the water
                    1. rudolff
                      rudolff 21 September 2013 00: 49
                      +2
                      Own shipbuilding traditions. They generally have felling glazing boats rarely found.
      2. rudolff
        rudolff 20 September 2013 00: 01
        +3
        Oleg, as for the discovery, I had in mind our apl, the above sounded as an example, not Gotland. This is a separate topic.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 47
          -1
          any submarine going under water drives a surface wave above itself which is easily detected from space.
    2. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 39
      -1
      there are reactors with natural circulation that make less noise. Nuclear submarines are significantly inferior to them only in shallow water where the contour will clog.
      The coastal non-submarines and with the "Lira" probably cannot compete with the maximum speed.
  19. Walking
    Walking 19 September 2013 16: 48
    +2
    As stated in the article, the first target was the submarine of the AUG escort, and after this attack the boat will be discovered and drowned.
  20. repytw
    repytw 19 September 2013 17: 10
    +1
    As I understand our "Varshavyanka", "Halibut" loses to the Swedes only in autonomy (4 days versus 16), and in some parameters (weapons, ammunition, immersion depth) wins. It is necessary to lease Assad, according to India's experience, 2-3 "Varshavyankas" (we have 20 of them) then as if the Americans thought about bombing Syria, and the Syrians would have swam and bought or ordered.
    1. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 20: 30
      0
      All well-wishers thought so when Kadafi threatened to sink the entire US fleet. And where is he now?
  21. Lex
    Lex 19 September 2013 18: 37
    +2
    The Shvedy were NEVER Varangians, according to the film by Mikhail Zadornov "Rurik. The Lost Truth".
    Respect your history, the history of a people who are much older and wiser than the "civilized" rabble.

    I didn’t read further than the title. The author is deeply disrespectful.
    1. Darakht
      Darakht 19 September 2013 19: 56
      +4
      Materials authors, the little that I like to read outside is thin. literature. Some materials are controversial, sometimes superficial, for some they would be killed, but they all have one property - a person has his own point of view, he presents it rather curiously and defends it.
      Now, with regard to Zadornov. Spit it out of your mouth immediately! Just immediately! referring to such crafts is at least stupid, thereby exposing yourself not in your best form. I was here alone trying to instill a love for the "academician of TV" Leontyev, your Zadornov from the same opera. And finally, as I understand it, M. Zadornov is a great historian, a real patriot, then do not be lazy to look for the address of his permanent residence and TV appearances at this address, immediately stop laughing at his jokes and stop respecting him as a Russian person. Are you Russian?
    2. fon_Stierlitz
      fon_Stierlitz 19 September 2013 20: 15
      +4
      The historian from Zadornov is the same as the philologist - amusing. Therefore, I do not advise you to learn history from his films
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 50
        -1
        In this case, he wrote the truth.
    3. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 43
      +2
      Quote: Lex
      I didn’t read further than the title. The author is deeply disrespectful.

      Dear neophile! Do not insult, in passing, the most worthy and respected author of the forum. And if you do not want to "stick" into the topic, it is better to take a walk on the next site, where about h.yah and gingerbread, as well as gays and lesbians.
      Do not make confusion, do not interfere with communication with smart people. IMHO.
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 52
        -1
        A worthy and respected one needs that the Navy does not have AUG. This is worse than "about h.yakh and gingerbread."
        Understand yourself, why?
    4. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 47
      -1
      The meaning of your comment is clear. Thank.
      PS. The Swedes also had Varangians - the Varangian is just a sea pirate, the earloops were river pirates
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. Santa Fe
      20 September 2013 01: 19
      +2
      Quote: Jacob31
      More on ... it seems)))

      You watched TV, you need to read more
      Quote: Jacob31
      In World War II, even from merchant ships found diesel-electric submarines

      Losses of the Japanese fleet from American submarines - 5 MILLION TONS
      for German submariners this figure was 3 times higher - the Germans sank 2770 ships and 130 warships of the main classes, with a tonnage of 14,5 MILLION TONS


      Quote: Jacob31
      A bunch of ships and no radars, no echo locators, not hydro locators. In

      Tell you in detail what forces were thrown to neutralize the Kriegsmarine? No radars helped until a dozen destroyers, frigates, and hunters were thrown at every U-bot.


      Otherwise, Britain would have died of starvation altogether - losses in 1942 exceeded 6,2 million tons of cargo
      Quote: Jacob31
      One DEPL entire US surface fleet will be able to destroy

      Post a list of the most successful aces submariners and their achievements?
      1. Jacob31
        Jacob31 20 September 2013 01: 28
        +2
        Times have changed, and so have the means. Without practice, these are all thoughts out loud. All cards will be revealed in battle hi
        1. Santa Fe
          20 September 2013 01: 44
          +3
          Quote: Jacob31
          Times have changed, and so have the means.

          Well, the Gotland boats are not much like rusty German U-bots
          Quote: Jacob31
          Without practice, these are all thoughts out loud. All cards will be revealed in battle

          All this has already been dozens of times. First World War. Second World War. Cold war Falkland War. Modern operations.

          Submariners have never failed
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 23
            -1
            the first Warsaw
      2. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 23
        -1
        nevertheless, they blew the battle in the Atlantic in 1943 against radars even under the RPD
  23. Current 72
    Current 72 20 September 2013 03: 21
    +1
    I read the article, read all the responses. Very and very interesting !!! Thank !!! Sincerely, Vladimir.
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 28
      0
      read more, you will not regret
  24. old man54
    old man54 20 September 2013 03: 27
    +2
    Oleg, the flock is good, I personally liked it! good
    I appreciate you for your consistency in views and your inclinations in opinions, man! hi Systematically promoting the idea to the masses that AB is already the past, but the PL ... I share your idea in general, especially today! The only sad thing is that such submarines do not fight with us yet. But, who is in power, who is sitting in the Kremlin, what really is that ??
    After your previous article about espionage, I had already decided that you started betraying the nautical theme, I was at a loss, and then again - a very interesting and extraordinary article! Against the general background of urya-patriotic articles on VO about politics and "you give more boats and tugs for our Navy" looks like a breath of fresh air, thank you! It's nice to read your analytics, even if sometimes controversial, BUT YOUR PERSONAL !! good hi
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 57
      -1
      Well, why is he promoting this? Without AB, Russia will become the past. Moreover, the North Ocean is no longer arctic.
      What deck aviation is capable of in a serious confrontation has shown WW2 and the Falklands.
  25. Blinov_I
    Blinov_I 20 September 2013 04: 09
    +1
    A bit of an abstract question. How effective are modern means of protecting surface ships from torpedoes? It seems that almost all Russian ships are armed with jet bombs, which are also designed to destroy torpedoes.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 55
      +3
      Quote: Blinov_I
      It seems that almost all Russian ships are armed with jet bombs, which are also designed to destroy torpedoes.

      At one time I had a chance to see the result of the PTZ ("boa constrictor", it seems, was). I was personally impressed, even very much! But RBU ... yesterday.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 20 September 2013 21: 12
    +3
    But why on the faces of the Yankees do not see cheeky smiles? Where did all the arrogance and the feeling of superiority go? Red eyes from tension, the sailors carefully peer into the sonar screens. There is something under the dark water ...

    A concern and perplexity arose from the fact that our DPL began to spread around the world (Varshavyanka, Halibut.), And the Germans are helping. Going to the shores of the Asia-Pacific region you need to know what you can meet there. So they conducted a full-scale experiment. The results were puzzling. By the way, you can significantly increase the time spent under water in terms of energy reserves by replacing it with new batteries (it seems tubular, silver-nickel). But expensive!
    And further. Oleg, thanks for the analyst - food for the brains of the "lazy" who are too lazy or have no time to climb the Internet and shovel other materials in search of such interesting things. Sincerely. KAA.
    1. sub307
      sub307 20 September 2013 22: 37
      +2
      Our diesel-electric submarines have "successfully crawled" before - project 641I, for example. German 209s too.
  28. Kostichous
    Kostichous April 11 2014 15: 33
    0
    All good!
    Tell me who has the cash program installed? What pros and cons have been identified during use?