From the Varangians to the Americans. Why did the United States lease a Swedish submarine?




... The AUG continuous control zone is a cylinder with a radius of 300 miles and a height from the seabed to low Earth orbits. Not a single aircraft, surface warship or enemy submarine has a chance to go unnoticed inside the guarded perimeter - in the event of real hostilities, their presence will be revealed, and the suspicious objects themselves will be immediately destroyed by the fire means of the ships and deck aviation.

Lords of the sea!

But why on the faces of the Yankees do not see cheeky smiles? Where did all the arrogance and the feeling of superiority go? Red eyes from tension, the sailors carefully peer into the sonar screens. There is something under the dark water ...

Houston, we have a problem!

The U.S. Navy command knew right away that the matter was abruptly wrong - in 2000, during an exercise off the coast of Hawaii, an Australian diesel-electric boat of the Collins type was able to break through the guards and freely entered the aircraft carrier group of the US Navy. Similar results were demonstrated by exercises in the Mediterranean - Israeli Dolphin-class submarines conditionally “sank” half of the Sixth fleet.

The Americans were helpless before the new threat.

Despite their contemptuous nickname, modern "diesel" turned into deadly opponents. Their small size and low noise level made the boats practically undetectable against the background of the sounds of the sea.

Unlike crashing nuclear ships, diesel-electric submarines have no itchy pumps that ensure the circulation of coolant in the reactor. They do not have turbo gear units and powerful refrigerating machines - only silent batteries and a quiet electric motor. Optionally - an air-independent installation, made on hydrogen fuel cells or as a Stirling engine, also working without internal explosions and strong vibrations.

Small size and power - all this reduces the thermal footprint and wetted surface of the boat. Noise decreases and stealth increases. The small mass of steel hull elements do not cause anomalies in the Earth’s magnetic field, preventing the boat from being detected by magnetic detectors.

A truly secretive, silent killer. Sea "black hole"!

The composition of weapons and a set of detection tools on board the diesel-electric submarines are in no way inferior to their older "colleagues" - nuclear-powered ships. Mine torpedo weapon, undersea-based cruise missiles, diving and special equipment - “diesel” are able to “pull three skins” from anyone who dares to poke into the coastal waters of their state.

However, they are relatively cheap (on average, 4-5 is on average cheaper than an atomic-powered vessel), numerous and, as a result, omnipresent. According to the calculations of the American command, in our days, diesel-electric submarines are in service with 39 countries of the world. More 300 diesel-electric submarines! - the coastal waters of Eurasia are literally teeming with these "fish", but the American fleet was never ready to face such a threat.

The Yankees themselves do not build diesel-electric submarines for one obvious reason - any conflicts always occur in the Old World, and to make war, the Americans are forced to drag across distant lands and three oceans. The US Navy has an unlimited budget and a pronounced offensive direction - of course, the choice was made in favor of the boats with a nuclear power plant. His last non-nuclear boat Yankees built in 1959 year (experimental submarine type SSK).

The meeting with the new threat made the Pentagon think over its own behavior and urgently adopt the DESI program (Diesel-Electric Submarine Initiative), aimed at developing measures to combat modern diesel-electric submarines.
From the middle of the 2000-x, the US Navy began to actively invite allies to the maneuvers - diesel-electric boats of the Brazilian, Chile, Colombia, Peru…

But one thing is to chase after the latest modifications of the “Type 209” - third-generation diesel-electric submarines, which are good in all respects, except one - every few days they are forced to rise to the surface.
And it is quite another thing - to meet with the ultra-modern diesel-electric submarines, equipped with an air-independent (anaerobic) propulsion system, dramatically extending the time under water. Such submarines go beyond the usual classification (diesel-electric submarines) and are classified as non-nuclear submarines (NNS).

To work out such a scenario, the US Navy decided to seek help from the allies and to lease the Swedish diesel-electric submarine HSwMS Gotland (Gtd) with a Stirling engine.

From the Varangians to the Americans

Gotland arrived in San Diego aboard the semi-submerged MV Eide Transporter platform in June 2005, the crew of 30 Swedish sailors was transferred to California by plane. It took a couple of weeks to acclimatize and adjust the balancing and submarine systems, originally designed for the cool, almost fresh waters of the Baltic, to the conditions of the great ocean.

And then it began ...

The next six months, the Third American fleet was intensely learning to search for a Swedish boat. Specialists of the US Navy meticulously studied the Gotland from the outside and inside, recorded its noise and parameters of thermal and electromagnetic fields.



A fantastic submarine rocked the Yankees imagination:
"Gotland" was extremely fast, powerful and most hidden. Six torpedo tubes, 18 torpedoes, the ability to set up 48 min.

Tiny crew, high automation and advanced detection systems.

The low mass of the hull, low-magnetic steel and 27 compensating electromagnets completely excluded the detection of the boat by magnetic anomaly detectors.

The noise background of the boat also exceeded all American expectations - thanks to a single all-mode electric motor and vibration isolation of all mechanisms, the Gotland was hardly detected even in close proximity to American ships, and the special hull cover, together with its small size, made Gotland difficult to detect. active sonars.
The boat simply merged with the natural thermal and noise background of the ocean.

From the Varangians to the Americans. Why did the United States lease a Swedish submarine?

Central Post (CP) of the submarine "Gotland"

But the most important thing is that the Swedish monster could remain continuously under water for two weeks (and, with an economical mode of oxidizer consumption, up to 20 days)!

Before the Americans was a masterpiece of technical progress. Invisible and invincible submarine, able to pass anywhere where there is seven feet under the keel, and perform any task, both in the coastal zone and in the open sea.

In the capabilities of their “adversary”, the Americans did not build illusions - back in 2003, during exercises in the Mediterranean, in a duel situation, the Swedish “Gotland” tracked down and conditionally “sank” the nuclear French boat and the American SSN-713 “Houston”. What made a real sensation.

This time everything happened in a similar way - despite the best efforts of the American anti-submarine forces, the Swedish boat stubbornly passed through all the cordons and found itself where it should not be.
The December 2005 of the year was the apotheosis - during the international exercises Joint Task Force Exercise 06-2, in which the US Navy Third Fleet was preparing to demonstrate everything that he had learned over the past year, a catastrophe occurred: led by the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan.



... Muffled puffing Stirling engines, recharging batteries; quietly humming electric motor. The submarine ship was crawling in a five-node way, scanning the water column ...
First of all, “Gotland” tracked down and conditionally “destroyed” the nuclear submarine - the only one who was a real threat to the Swedes. Multipurpose PLA was to ensure the safety of AUG from attacks from under the water and cover the "dead sector" under the heads of cruisers and destroyers. For which she died first.

Left without their own submarine cover, surface warships began to "die" one by one - the Gotland passed through the warrant like a blade blade, alternately moving closer to the American ships and taking their photos from various angles and distances. The Yankees found out about the presence of the boat, only when they saw a breaker from the periscope nearby - in real conditions, this would mean a pair of released self-guided torpedoes.
It was not possible to establish steady contact with the boat - the only way to stay alive was to leave the terrible square, i.e. disrupt the execution of the main task. AUG could not break through and strike at the chosen target.



The shocking results of the exercise led to the most serious consequences - the contract with Sweden was extended for another year. Gotland continued to serve in the Pacific, as an imitator of the "enemy" NNS.

The results of further maneuvers involving Gotland are sparingly estimated as “successful”: the American command thanks all the exercise participants, the Swedish sailors share their enthusiastic impressions of the visits to Disneyland and to the US Navy aircraft carriers (which is, however, the same thing).


Fairing infrared sonar AN / SQS-53 cruiser type "Ticonderoga"


It is obvious that in two years of close contact with the Gotland, American sailors learned a lot about the design, capabilities and tactics of using modern diesel-electric submarines, which is called first-hand. It is reported that the Yankees did not spare their own forces and the resource of a foreign submarine - only in the first year Gotland spent 4000 hours in the sea, instead of the ones laid down under the 2000 regulation. Certainly certain conclusions were made and measures were taken to counter the underwater threat.

Could the Yankees find an effective solution to the problem? Hardly. The secrecy of modern non-nuclear submarines is too high.

Stealth boats

The only excuse for American sailors - submarines, corresponding to the combat capabilities of "Gotland", are available in the composition of not every Navy. The circle of fourth generation naval base operators is limited mainly to developed countries, most of which are members of the NATO bloc:

- Sweden (three boats of the type "Gotland");

- Germany, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Turkey (the fleets of these countries use the German “Type-212” or export version “Type 214.” Very complex and expensive submarines with an air-independent installation on hydrogen elements);

- Israel (five “Dolphin” type boats of German construction, created on the basis of “Type 212”);

- Chile, Malaysia, India, Brazil (French-Spanish project "Skorpene"; India and Brazil will receive their ordered ships in the period 2014-2020);

- Spain (four boats under construction type S-80);

- Yu.Koreya (exploits German "Type 214");

- Japan (built on its own project boats "Soryu" with a Stirling engine).


Nimitz and South Korean boat San Von (type 214), Busan Naval Base

Nevertheless, the Yankees do not give rest to two dozen “Warsaw” women of the Soviet design, who bred around the world in the amount of 20 with more than one piece. The combat capabilities of the Varshavyanki are very close to the capabilities of fourth-generation boats (and according to a number of parameters - the depth of the dive, the ammunition, the composition of the weapons - are far superior to all foreign analogues). The only weakness is the limited power reserve in a submerged position, already on the third or fourth day Varshavyanka needs to ascend to the periscope depth to recharge the batteries.

In addition, Russia is conducting its own work on the creation of anaerobic propulsion systems for submarines — initially it was planned to equip the submarines of the 677 project (“Lada”) with such an engine. Alas, the main boat - B-585 "St. Petersburg", laid back in the distant 1997 year, was completed as a "regular" diesel-electric submarines. Impromptu did not go to the benefit of the ship - the B-585 was taken into trial operation of the Navy, but could not become a combat unit of the fleet (submerged speed - 60% of the calculated value).


M-305 (project 615), Odessa

In fact, not everything is as sad as it seems - after all, at one time the USSR was one of the world leaders in the field of creating air-independent power plants for the submarine fleet. It is enough to recall the 615 project - 29 series of small submarines (classification “M”, surface displacement / underwater displacement - 400 / 500 tons) equipped with equipment for operation of the submerged diesel engine (liquefied oxygen and carbon dioxide absorber).

Or diesel-electric C-273, re-equipped in 1980-ies according to the 613E “Katran” project - with the installation of an electrochemical power generator for underwater running.

Finally, air-independent propulsion systems will soon promise to appear on promising Russian boats, whose construction will be carried out according to the modernized 677 “Lada” project. The construction of "conventional" diesel-electric submarines will not be conducted anymore, quoting the former Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Vysotsky: "We do not need boats on the Second World War energy industry."

That's right. Russia needs non-nuclear submarines with anaerobic propulsion systems, like the Swedish Gotland - the most correct and effective investment for the speedy saturation of the fleet with new combat units. An ideal tool to combat enemy ships in the coastal zone and in open sea areas.


Video - "Gotland" in the service of the US Navy. Interview commander boat Frederick Linden for the news channel NBC4.

Summary of conversation:

Reporter: It looks like an ordinary submarine, but experts call it the most deadly boat in the world. This is a real threat and we were forced to seek help from Sweden.

Linden: It's dangerous to make too much noise in our work.

(R): Frederick Linden and 29 of his subordinates arrived at the Point-Loma naval base (San Diego) to help us deal with the new-generation submarines. Ordinary boats can not stay under water for a long time, but Gotland is equipped with a high-tech air-independent system.

(L): With an anaerobic (air-independent) engine, I can stay under water for weeks.

(R): The boat can stay under water for almost a month, but at the same time it is an incredibly secretive ship - all last summer the Navy had played cat and mouse with Gotland. The boat was able to conditionally sink our nuclear submarine and the largest nuclear aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan.

Norman Polmar, Naval Expert: The Gotland boat “cut circles” around our AUG without obstacles.

(R): Countries like North Korea, Iran and China are already working on creating such boats. With submarines like the Gotland, Iran can completely block tanker traffic in the Persian Gulf!

Polmarn: Yes, Iran is a real threat.

(R): Commander Linden understands how vulnerable the United States will be if Gotland falls into the hands of our enemies. (referring to Linden) Are there places on the North American coast where Gotland cannot penetrate?

Commander Linden shakes his head.



Based on:
http://www.navy.mil/
http://army-news.ru/
http://www.militaryphotos.net/
http://www.kockums.se/
http://nation.time.com/
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  1. Samy 19 September 2013 09: 12 New
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    A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....
    1. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 09: 15 New
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      Quote: Samy
      A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....

      no pacific
      1. Vadivak 19 September 2013 10: 57 New
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        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Dolphin-type Israeli submarines conditionally “sunk” half of the Sixth Fleet


        Or maybe not conditionally

        in the midst of the Six Day War, Israeli warplanes and ships attacked a U.S. reconnaissance ship with 292 sailors on board, killing 34 and injuring 171 crew members.
        On the afternoon of June 8, Israeli fighters on low-level flight without warning fired Liberty missiles and on-board cannons without warning. This attack lasted 20 minutes. Missiles pierced the deck of the ship, killed and wounded dozens of sailors and set fire to the ship. Among the wounded was the captain of the ship, William McGonagle.

        Then torpedo boats connected to the attack. All attempts to signal the Israelis to end the attack were ignored. In response to these signals, Israeli boats fired torpedoes towards the Liberty ship. One of them hit the ship at the place where the intelligence equipment was located; at the same time 25 American sailors died. Then the Israeli ships approached the Liberty at a distance from which it was impossible not to miss the markings of the ship. They began to circle around the ship, pouring machine-gun fire on it and firing at sailors who tried to extinguish fires.

        The Liberty was picking up water and tilting to one side, so an evacuation order was issued. When the sailors threw rubber life rafts overboard, machine-gun fire was fired at them, so the crew had to abandon the attempt to rescue and hide under the deck. Only 16 hours before the attacked ship, two American destroyers evacuated its crew. Surviving sailors were immediately barred from discussing this attack with anyone.

        years, the silence was broken by Lieutenant James Ennes (an officer with the Liberty), convincing evidence was presented of a cold-blooded attack by the Israelis of an American ship, this is his version of what happened.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 52 New
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          Only half of those killed were killed by shelling - the Israelis were driven off by aircraft when their commandos had already slaughtered Americans on decks.
      2. Sakhalininsk 19 September 2013 15: 28 New
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        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        no pacific


        In vain you are so, here it is necessary to raise the question of the threat to national security in the area of ​​responsibility of the Caspian flotilla bully
        This is of course a joke, but in fact the Swedish DPS is a very serious and dangerous enemy, and indeed the Swedish fleet in its waters can give out lyuley to any enemy, especially one who does not have the opportunity to organize a lifeless radioactive wasteland on the territory of the Scandinavian peninsula.
        1. Matio
          Matio 19 September 2013 19: 44 New
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          we must think about the Danube Flotilla ..
      3. Matio
        Matio 19 September 2013 19: 39 New
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        NO, the Black Sea ...
      4. old man54 20 September 2013 02: 45 New
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        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Quote: Samy
        A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....

        no pacific

        good laughing
      5. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 46 New
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        not far there
  2. makst83 19 September 2013 09: 14 New
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    It is very pitiful and sad that the Komsomolets nuclear submarine perished! At a depth of more than 600-700 meters (this is the working depth, and the maximum is up to 1250 meters!) NOBODY would NEVER find it! One such boat and all, PPC AUGU! So do not la la: "The AUG continuous control zone is a cylinder with a radius of 300 miles and a height from the seabed to low Earth orbits. Not a single aircraft, surface combat ship or enemy submarine has a chance to go unnoticed inside the guarded perimeter" Super-duper Swedish miracle .... a feeling that "Discovery" had seen enough!
    1. ben gun 19 September 2013 09: 41 New
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      At a depth of a kilometer there was simply NOTHING to get it.
      1. yanus 19 September 2013 10: 42 New
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        Quote: ben gun
        At a depth of a kilometer there was simply NOTHING to get it.

        But could he get someone with a weapon from a kilometer?
        At a depth of a kilometer, what was his search radius for surface targets?
        1. vyatom
          vyatom 19 September 2013 11: 30 New
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          Quote: yanus
          could he get someone with a weapon from a kilometer?
          At a depth of a kilometer, what was his search radius for surface targets?

          During the exercises under the leadership of the commander Zelensky and the commander of the flotilla Chernov, after diving 1020 m, torpedoes were launched from 800 meters, and it was very successful.
        2. makst83 19 September 2013 11: 32 New
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          Each torpedo tube had an autonomous pneumohydraulic firing device. Shooting could be carried out at all depths of immersion.
          At this depth, nothing prevented him from looking for surface and underwater targets. It was installed GAK (hadroakk. Complex) SKAT-KS, the maximum range of target detection under normal hydrological conditions was 230 km.
          Thus, the Komsomolets could lie down at a depth of 1 km, without fear of being discovered, and listen to the sea, waiting for the appearance of the enemy!))
        3. old man54 20 September 2013 02: 50 New
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          Quote: yanus
          At a depth of a kilometer, what was his search radius for surface targets?

          a normal radius, but here, at this depth, beyond how many thermal layers, a jump would hardly have been detected if it had not rumbled like a steam engine. hi
          Quote: yanus
          But could he get someone with a weapon from a kilometer?

          Well, of course there was a problem, but something like thinking about it. Well, if a “Flurry” was invented, then a deep-sea, deep-fired, thick-dipped dolphin torpedo would have been invented!
      2. makst83 19 September 2013 11: 16 New
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        Did you hear anything from torpedoes with special ammunition !? For example, the Asashai MK48 mod4 or MK48 mod5-ADKAP (both torpedoes have a maximum travel depth of 914 meters). The first was adopted by the 1981, the second by the 1988.
        1. Old_kapitan 19 September 2013 12: 57 New
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          Did you hear anything from torpedoes with special ammunition !? For example, the Asashai MK48 mod4 or MK48 mod5-ADKAP (both torpedoes have a maximum travel depth of 914 meters). The first was adopted by the 1981, the second by the 1988.

          Firstly, a torpedo with SBP is a torpedo with a nuclear warhead and has no relation to the depth of the course. Secondly, getting into a relatively small nuclear submarine at a kilometer depth is somewhat more difficult than getting into an aircraft carrier on the surface. And thirdly, there is still severe arithmetic of the war, which I first read about with M.L. Galla in an article on ramming. So, to paraphrase it, exchanging a nuclear submarine for an aircraft carrier, whatever one may say, is profitable on all sides. Well, in the fourth (ibid.) There is also psychology. The Germans, knowing the possibility of ramming, during attacks violating the order, scattered and bombarded the white light, like a penny. It is also important at sea - to intimidate the enemy and thereby violate his plans.
          1. makst83 19 September 2013 15: 00 New
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            read the branch of the dialogue!
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 September 2013 09: 31 New
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            Quote: Old_Kapitan
            Firstly, a torpedo with SBP is a torpedo with a nuclear warhead and has no relation to the depth of the course. Secondly, getting into a relatively small nuclear submarine at a kilometer depth is somewhat more difficult than getting into an aircraft carrier on the surface. And thirdly, there is still the harsh arithmetic of war
            There are also in the fourth. It’s strange that I didn’t mention it. A nuclear submarine with a working depth of about a kilometer at a depth of about 300 m (where it is also almost inaccessible for observation) has an enormous safety margin if the enemy uses depth bombs and other weapons of destruction “over the areas”. A sort of booking analogue
        2. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 32 New
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          really the first then did not work at such a depth
    2. vyatom
      vyatom 19 September 2013 11: 27 New
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      Quote: makst83
      very sorry and sad that the Komsomolets nuclear submarine perished! At a depth of more than 600-700 meters (this is the working depth, and the maximum is up to 1250 meters!) NOBODY would NEVER find it! One such boat and all, PPC AUGU! So do not la la: "

      At one time, the Kursk in the Mediterranean Sea made the 6th Fleet leadership agitated, covertly conducting training attacks on all AUGs, which earned the fear and hatred of the US Navy leadership.
      1. vadim dok 19 September 2013 21: 14 New
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        I ask for a link! Please!
    3. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 19: 49 New
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      And why didn’t they continue building Komsomoltsev if he beat such a good one?
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 59 New
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        because the best is sacrificed.
  3. Old_kapitan 19 September 2013 09: 27 New
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    The meeting with the new threat made the Pentagon think over its own behavior and urgently adopt the DESI program (Diesel-Electric Submarine Initiative), aimed at developing measures to combat modern diesel-electric submarines.

    Not that they thought:
    The Yankees themselves do not build diesel-electric submarines for one obvious reason - any conflicts always occur in the Old World, and in order to fight, the Americans are forced to trudge over distant lands and three oceans.

    No need to meddle with your snout in the ranks - and you will be happy!
  4. rolik
    rolik 19 September 2013 09: 29 New
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    Some info about Gotland.
    Gotland-type submarines are the world's first serial submarines with a combined diesel-electric and auxiliary non-volatile Stirling-generator EI. The initial displacement of the submarines was increased by 200 tons, and the length of the submarines - by 7,5 m, to accommodate an air-independent electric power plant. It is assumed that 90% of the time the submarine will move during the operation of the Stirling generators and only 10% of the time under the DG. From the previously created Vastergotland type submarines (project / * 17), the Gotland submarines, in addition to the combined EC, are distinguished by the new CSU- type hack 90-2, reduced levels of physical fields (acoustic, magnetic and thermal), extended service life (30 years), and KOH, as well as large volumes for equipment and supplies and less dependence on coastal supply systems. Installing an auxiliary non-volatile power plant increased the time stay submarine in underwater 7 times (up to 14 days) compared with conventional submarines. Although the maximum output power of each Stirling generator is 75 kW, the actual operating power is only 65 kW. At a cost of life support of submarines - 75-85 kW, to ensure movement remains no more than 45-55 kW. Volumes for placement of the third Stirling generator are provided on the submarine (not installed due to financial constraints). The total supply of cryogenic oxygen in two tanks is 24 tons, the weight of one Stirling generator is 4 tons (manufacturer F. Kockums, subcontractors Volvo and FFV).
    Gotland-type torpedo submarines are the first submarines to be equipped with SESUB 940A ASBUs (9 SCS MKZ manufactured by Celsius Tech). The structure of ASBU includes three multifunctional console type IID f. "Terma" for command, control, communications and weapon control, provides tracking of 95 targets simultaneously. ASBU is connected to the local Ethernet network and uses software in the Ada language.
    The general shipboard monitoring system (developed by ABB) includes a submarine maneuvering control panel (Van Rietschoten amp; Houwens, Netherlands), similar to that used on Dutch Walrus submarines (course, diving depth, submarine displacement, speed of hydrodynamic control are controlled); depth and safety console (control of immersion, ascent, progress in the RDP mode; monitoring the integrity of the hull and pumping of bilge water); motion control panel (control and monitoring of GED, DGU, Stirling-generator-mi and AB). The first two remotes are located in the CPU, the last in the aft compartment. It is proposed to install a periscope type SK038 with an infrared image system f. "Pilkington Optronic", operating in the range of 8-12 microns. In the longer term, it is planned to install optoelectronic periscopes that do not penetrate into the PC. The TA submarines provide self-propelled torpedo firing.
    1. rolik
      rolik 19 September 2013 09: 32 New
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      Everything did not fit, further.
      In 1998, additional work worth $ 335 million was carried out. on adaptation of ASBU for firing the latest heavy universal torpedoes of type 62 (Torpedo 2000) and light universal torpedoes of type 45 (43X2). In the future, submarines can be armed with new light type 46 torpedoes and, possibly, Rb-15 type cruise missiles for firing at coastal targets. Gotland type submarines have a single-hull structure, an X-shaped tail unit and felling horizontal bow rudders, 7-blade rowing screw. The casing is made of OK-812 steel and lined with anti-sonar coating. To ensure the required secrecy of the submarine when driving under an air-independent EU, devices are provided to prevent the formation of bubble and thermal traces. During the operation of Stirling generators, the detection of submarines is difficult due to the "clean" fuel and the high degree of combustion of its components. The submarine is equipped with an automatic control system for magnetic field levels and control of a demagnetizing device. Demagnetization of submarines is carried out taking into account the real (at a given point) Earth's magnetic field. (On previous submarines - based on maps of the Earth’s magnetic field). Magnetic field sensor f. "Polyamp" is located in the bow of the PMU fence.
      A very interesting boat in technical terms, although I didn’t particularly focus on diesels.
  5. shark 19 September 2013 10: 02 New
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    We started for health, but finished for peace. Yes, Iran is a problem))))) they are amers .. they feel that the whole world hates them
    1. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 19: 59 New
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      The whole world is Russia, S. Korea, Syria and Iran. And the rest are fools. A good company!
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 14: 59 New
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        whole latin america yet. Almost all of Africa and Asia, Japan, half of Europe. Australia and Canada put their teeth through their teeth. France after WW2 filed a lawsuit against them for carpet bombing.
  6. Samy 19 September 2013 10: 07 New
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    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: Samy
    A direct threat to the Northern Fleet ....

    no pacific


    What is it like ? Will Vladivostok be threatened from Stockholm? It may still be Baltic, but it is not serious now ...
    1. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 10: 25 New
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      Quote: Samy
      What is it like ? Will Vladivostok be threatened from Stockholm?

      And Murmansk, and Vladivostok, and even the Caspian flotilla
      1. old man54 20 September 2013 02: 56 New
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        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Quote: Samy
        What is it like ? Will Vladivostok be threatened from Stockholm?

        And Murmansk, and Vladivostok, and even the Caspian flotilla

        Well, what, Oleg, you can threaten, fist and from the hatchway, even the Aral Sea, even the "fleet" of Lake Baikal! wink laughing What is attached to a person then. crying
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 39 New
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          with the sectional assembly of such boats in the Caspian - quite. In Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan, US forces have been deployed for more than 10 years. including in order to interrupt communications with Iran in case of what.
  7. ka5280
    ka5280 19 September 2013 10: 25 New
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    Iran 3-4 such boats for the New Year to give, so that the next year the world would meet without matraslend =)
    1. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 10: 29 New
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      Who will give them something? The Russian Federation does not even have such developments. But the Swedes and Germans didn’t get it
      1. ka5280
        ka5280 19 September 2013 10: 37 New
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        In Russia there are such developments. There are also more artful ideas. But financing is not always good. And so Russian science is still alive!
        1. avt
          avt 19 September 2013 11: 02 New
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          Quote: ka5280
          In Russia there are such developments. There are also more artful ideas.

          Yeah . Here is just a glimpse of what’s done on ,, Sarov ”, but it seems that only for an attempt both eyes will be knocked out. laughing
          1. rolik
            rolik 19 September 2013 12: 24 New
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            Quote: avt
            Yeah . Here is just a glimpse of what’s happening on Sarov’s,

            laughing
            On Sarov (originally Sargan) было, I highlight this word, until recently.
            The Kristall-27 power plant created by SKBK on the basis of fuel cells, which allows extending the autonomous scuba diving period of the boat up to 60-90 days. This installation is distinguished by cryogenic and intermetallic storage of oxygen and hydrogen, as well as a low-temperature electrochemical generator with an alkaline matrix electrolyte.
            October 29, 2012 Sarov went to sea to test an experimental hydrogen engine. It is planned to install similar engines on diesel submarines of Project 677 Lada and its export version Amur-1650. The installation of such an engine on the Amur, personally, I think is not necessary, let the Chinese brothers invent their own engine. The principle of operation of these engines is that the boat's electric motor will receive current not from storage batteries, but from hydrogen-based fuel cells.
          2. Current 72
            Current 72 20 September 2013 02: 58 New
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            Yes, and they will kick the ass, that would not be disgraceful!
  8. tlauicol 19 September 2013 10: 32 New
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    These are the T-shirts worn by the Valrus submariners since the 99th year, when they managed to conditionally sink the Teodor Roosevelt nuclear carrier twice and leave undetected. And in total during the exercises 9 !!! ships - count: 23 Feb - 2 Mar 1999: Walrus (2) participates, among other NATO navies and the Brazilian navy, in the exercise JTFEX / TMDI99.

    JTFEX / TMDI99 stands for Joint Task Force Exercise / Theater Missile Defense Initiative 1999. The exercise is held in the Caribbean and on the US main land and has 27000 participants, of which 15000 naval participants. This exercise is the biggest gathering of forces since the Gulf-war, is held from 1 Feb to 4 Mar 1999. The T-shirt that was designed by the Walrus (2) crew to celebrate the 'sinking' of US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt .


    During this exercise the Walrus (2) penetrates the US screen and 'sinks' many ships, including the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T-shirt. Other ships that are sunk by the Walrus (2) during this exercise are: USS Boise SSN-764, Ro? M DDG-70, R? DDG-61, Ville De Quebec FFH / FFG-332, Stephen W. Grooves FFG-29, Holstein F-216, Vella Gulf CG-55, Mount Whitney LCC-20.
    among them: an atomic aircraft carrier, a nuclear submarine, a headquarters ship (the same Mount Whitney), a cruiser, two destroyers, three frigates (American, Canadian and German). Such is the glorious Walrus!
    link to their website http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_walrus2.htm[center]
    1. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 10: 36 New
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      this is the netherlands
      1. tlauicol 19 September 2013 10: 50 New
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        Well, it’s clear that it’s not the Zulus. On a stirling boat, they did this before the Swedes!
      2. tlauicol 19 September 2013 19: 15 New
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        Oleg, correct: the French and American nuclear submarines (well, and the Spanish diesel-electric submarines in addition) “sunk” Halland, also a Swede
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 19 September 2013 19: 35 New
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      Quote: Tlauicol
      And in total during the exercises 9 !!! ships
      As many as nine? This is cool, where ours is up to them ... For its first autonomy, the lead “Bars” 971 of the project brought only 74 contacts. wink And he himself has never been discovered. Although ALL NATO PLO forces were waiting for him at the boundary of the North Cape Bear Bearing ... request
      1. vadim dok 19 September 2013 21: 15 New
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        I ask for a link! Please!
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 19 September 2013 23: 30 New
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          Quote: vadim dok
          I ask for a link!
          An extract from the top-secret logbook of the ship? belay Or from the order of the commander of the flotilla (also secret) according to the results of this campaign? How do you imagine that? winked
      2. tlauicol 20 September 2013 04: 36 New
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        74 pins? and all with warships only? and all with different? I take my word if there are no other docs.
  9. chunga-changa 19 September 2013 10: 40 New
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    We have no AUG. The main objectives in our fleet are SSBNs. The areas of their deployment for non-nuclear submarines are either not accessible or are located at a great distance, underwater speed does not allow to pursue or accompany SSBNs. We are not afraid of nuclear submarines. It is necessary and profitable to have one's own to oppose the AUG, landing groups, and actions in the coastal and Mediterranean seas. But it should be remembered that in the case of a "big" war, for Russia everything will be decided on land.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 19 September 2013 19: 39 New
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      Quote: chunga-changa
      it should be remembered that in the case of a "big" war, for Russia everything will be decided on land.
      EVERYTHING on land for Russia will be decided ONLY if before that EVERYTHING has been decided in the areas of combat patrols of SSBNs. Moreover, in their favor, which is doubtful. So the beginning of the underwater “Rubilov” in high latitudes can be considered the beginning of the 3rd world ... request
      1. chunga-changa 19 September 2013 21: 35 New
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        Here another was meant. The exchange of air and missile strikes without a ground operation is a stalemate in itself. The future war is seen as a limited nuclear attack on Russia, followed by ground operations. Otherwise, everything would depend on the ability of our fleet to carry out amphibious assault and supply to the territory of the United States, followed by ground operation and occupation of the territory. In this case, for us everything would be decided at sea.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 19 September 2013 23: 33 New
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          Quote: chunga-changa
          The future war is seen as a limited nuclear attack on Russia, followed by ground operations
          I can’t imagine the ruler of Russia, who in response to this turns out to be SO pacifist, that he would not give an order for an adequate response to the aggressor request
          1. chunga-changa 20 September 2013 00: 45 New
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            The modern doctrine of the US war provides for actions to reflect the "adequate response", especially for this America has withdrawn from the ABM Treaty. If you cannot imagine something, or you are not pleased to do it, does not mean that your opponent will not present it or do it.
            1. Boa kaa 20 September 2013 19: 30 New
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              Quote: chunga-changa
              If you cannot imagine something, or you are not pleased to do it, does not mean that your opponent will not present it or do it.

              Oh how! And for what, one wonders, we are deploying SPRN, we are improving A-135, we are developing C-500, well, and as it should be for a zealous owner, we are preparing all sorts of gifts for the thief in a reciprocal-onward strike, such as Yars, Topol-M, Bulava, Sineva, etc. .
              Apparently they represent in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation all the subconnected and insidious nature of our opponents who have withdrawn from the ABM Treaty in the hope of obtaining an impenetrable shield-ABM. But about the reflection of the space rocket (mind you - not an air!) Attack, they had a long debate, but mathematicians said: seams! rpkSN value is variable, therefore, we cannot guarantee the interception of 80-90% ICBMs! Not enough reaction time! Therefore, they climbed into the Ocean with their Ajis and PR BLOCK-2,3. They have one task - SLBMs of our Boreevs and the remaining 667 BDRMs on the accelerating section of the trajectory (RTH).
    2. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 45 New
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      NATO's AIP boat base is near so there is something to fear from its coast. in remote areas of the Ocean, their base or floating base (AUG) is also there and they can transfer the flown SSBN there by chain, as F18 do when flying Tu-95 "around the corner."
  10. USNik
    USNik 19 September 2013 11: 22 New
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    Not a single aircraft, surface warship or enemy submarine has a chance to go unnoticed inside the guarded perimeter - in the event of real hostilities, their presence will be revealed, and the suspicious objects themselves will be immediately destroyed
    Nude nude. Although Tom Clancy is still a dreamer, he also suspected something in 1986. repeat . This is me at the expense of his Red Storm, where the Tu-22m Granites smashed into the trash three AUG soldier wink So we also have something to answer to the Junkers, only a little differently.
    1. Ruslan 19 September 2013 17: 25 New
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      not granites, but x-22
    2. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 20: 18 New
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      Well, AUG proved that this is a real Disneyland. And why is Russia building Wikemardia, Kuzya and the like?
      1. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 22: 03 New
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        Quote: Matio
        And why is Russia building Wikemardia, Kuzya and the like?

        Kuznetsov, like all TAVKRs, is the fruit of admiration for the West; in fact, such a ship was nafig neither the USSR nor the Russian Federation

        Indian Vikra - Indians wanted to become a "great sea power" and amuse their vanity (a repeat of the senseless South American dreadnought race of the early twentieth century)
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 24 New
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          the fruit of Russia / Soviet Union confinement policy, see the wiki for "China confinement policy", which is not only carried out by the State Department, but by "its" rulers.
          more precisely, the fruit of when this policy bent a little
          Russian should not have tactical aviation beyond the coast, as well as overseas friends, allies, interests, protection of compatriots. Sit on permafrost and do not star until you and there have come ..
          In which case, the surface fleet will be drowned without being allowed to reach the launch line of the anti-ship missile launcher on the AUG, the underwater fleet is cut off by hydrophones and lidars from satellites. The range of carrier-based anti-submarine aviation is 1700 miles. In which case buoys sow the entire ocean and all.
          The fleet is driven under water, the buoyancy theory of the submarine does not take into account the change in the volume of the solid hull with depth, the boats are sinking.
          Threw you into the pockets of lice everywhere. In the hands, and zashivorot.
          For some reason, aircraft carriers are inexpensive to Hindus and Thailand, and the latter does not even have leased submarines.
    3. old man54 20 September 2013 03: 04 New
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      Quote: USNik
      This is me at the expense of his Red Storm, where Tu-22m Granites smashed into the trash three AUG

      RCC "Granite" was developed only for underwater launch. You have already been answered below (X-22). hi
  11. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 19 September 2013 11: 41 New
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    It would be nice to have such small silent submarines on SSBNs, well, something like big torpedo tubes. Delivered to the place, and there - assassin attack.
  12. a52333 19 September 2013 12: 06 New
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    Thanks to the author for the article. I really liked it. These fears of amers were reflected in the film to remove the periscope 15 years ago.
  13. rudolff 19 September 2013 12: 18 New
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    The presence of the NAPL in the Russian fleet is no less important than the nuclear submarines. Black, Baltic, Barents, Norwegian, Northern, Okhotsk, Japanese, all these seas can be controlled by non-nuclear boats without any problems. If PMTO remains in Tartus, then the Mediterranean. With the presence of PMT in Venezuela or Cuba, the Caribbean, in Vietnam, South China. Unfortunately, all this is not in the near future. The anaerobic unit is not ready and its deadline is postponed annually. At the second and third building of the Lada project, at best, new batteries will appear. If the Indians in the near future finally move their tender 75i, we fly there like plywood over Paris, losing to Scorpen for the second time in a row.
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 31 New
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      Do you think she’s not ready for anything? There is nothing complicated there. By technology and materials - 17/18 century.
  14. Kibalchish 19 September 2013 13: 03 New
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    Infa recently slipped, during the exercises, the Germans drowned the entire AUG on their 212 in the rubbish, and the Americans did not even notice them.

    Similarly, during exercises in the Pacific Ocean, the Japanese Soryu also devoted a whole ACG. So the Americans got confused. True, they were lucky that only their allies had such weapons ... I somehow suggested exchanging the technology of the Soryu project in Japan in exchange for the Kuril Islands.
    1. old man54 20 September 2013 03: 07 New
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      Quote: Kibalchish
      I like that proposed to exchange from Japan the technology of the Soryu project in exchange for the Kuril Islands.

      you ooohromny minus from me, it is a pity that only one is possible !!! angry
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 32 New
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        he is bad
        just called kibalchish
    2. Boa kaa 20 September 2013 19: 52 New
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      Quote: Kibalchish
      I once suggested that Japan exchange the technology of the Soryu project in exchange for the Kuril Islands.

      On the topic of "Crystal" dawned light at the end of the tunnel. So soon we will have our own, different from Western, anaerobic plant, but with bound, not cryogenic oxygen. which is much safer. And it’s time for you to change your nickname to “Bad Boy.”
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 05 New
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        yes indeed - why not exchange Hokkaido for his opu.
        such an installation is much more complicated.
  15. Mikhail3 19 September 2013 14: 03 New
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    Covering a boat with variable-density silicone plastic (and it has become so simple that they sell similar coatings for cars online ... not so thick, of course smile ) instead of rubber can very significantly reduce the noise of anything. In the "shell and armor" competition, in this case, the lead is a huge margin.
  16. barbiturate 19 September 2013 15: 00 New
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    Great boat Gotland, no question, NAPL is generally on the rise thanks to anaerobic installations. Here are just the flaws, too, are visible, because the same Gotland or other modern NPLs are almost submarine barges with torpedoes. They go at a speed of 3-5 knots, i.e. they need autonomy in a propulsion system in order to stay in one position for a long time, real estate. Want a description of Gotland's victories? The goals moved and actively searched for her, and she stupidly moved with 5 nodal moves and realized the gap in noise resulting from this. Or moved to an aircraft carrier order with the same 5 knots and broke through its defense. Hence the question, dear Oleg, what do you think, if the apl say the 3rd generation, move at a speed of 5 knots, and say Virginia would look for it at 15 knots, who would win?
    It seems to me that Gotland worked in all simulated situations like a sea mine, woe to the one who runs into it because of course she will discover the target first. But only the Americans are obviously cunning and do not provide data, has the so-called FOSS been deployed in the area of ​​Gotland? After all, for such a system that Gotland, that the project boat 941 is the same thing) This system took Virginia from 35km to escort.
    Here is an example quote:
    A group of three ships of the LCS type, having deployed the ADS system and having onboard towed emitters for illumination of LFAS targets and anti-submarine helicopters, is capable of monitoring the water area with a total area of ​​more than 30 000 square x miles (96 100 km 2, which is a square with a side 310 km).

    Not a single large underwater target as a result of the application of this system can go unnoticed.
    1. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 22: 28 New
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      Quote: barbiturate
      after all, the same Gotland or other modern submarines are practically submarine barges with torpedoes

      figasse
      Quote: barbiturate
      Go at a speed of 3-5 knots

      In general, she has a maximum speed of 20+
      3-5 - economic speed, creep mode
      Quote: barbiturate
      The goals moved and actively searched for her, and she stupidly moved with 5 nodal moves and realized the gap in noise resulting from this

      What does not suit such tactics?
      Quote: barbiturate
      what do you think, if apl say 3rd generation, moved at a speed of 5 knots, and say Virginia would look for her at 15 knots, who would win?

      PLA "Houston" (Los Angeles) in a duel situation; like his French colleague "Ryubi"

      I don’t know about Virginia, she’s at least 10 years older than Gotland
      Quote: barbiturate
      It seems to me that Gotland worked in all simulated situations like a sea mine, woe to the one who comes up for it will certainly find the target first

      Yes, he did not rush about like crazy over the ocean, but covered the square entrusted to him
      Why not tactics to protect the coast or sea lanes?
      Quote: barbiturate
      FOSS in the area of ​​action of Gotland?

      Really SOSUS?))
      Quote: barbiturate
      A group of three ships of the LCS type, deploying an ADS system

      Nothing that LCS appeared 15 years later than Gotland? wink
      In addition, it is unlikely that a surface ship full of / and 2500 tons will be able to work effectively in open sea areas

      "a group of three ships LCS" - this is all the LCS of the US Navy for 2013. Whereas Gotland went into operation in 1996
      1. barbiturate 21 September 2013 05: 17 New
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        in many ways, I agree with you, it's just that the tactics of a sea mine are given a square and you cover it.
        FOSS systems are deployed not only on surface, but also on submarines). Just while the enemy is absent from the amers, but they quickly learn.
  17. Delta 19 September 2013 15: 42 New
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    “December 2005 became the apotheosis - during the international exercises Joint Task Force Exercise 06-2, at which the Third Fleet of the US Navy was preparing to demonstrate everything that he had learned over the past year, a catastrophe occurred: a small Varangian“ killed ”the entire seventh carrier carrier group led by the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan. "

    Oleg, your tendency to pathos and loud statements in this case brings you again. For one thing - CONDITIONALLY attack i.e. to photograph at the periscope, following a five-node move, possibly without even opening the covers of the TA, and it is quite another thing to attack realistically. By this, I want to say that torpedo firing of even the quietest submarine, even using the self-propelled torpedo method (which, by the way, is NOT implemented on the NPL), entails noise and detection of the submarine, which means it will most likely be destroyed. She can and will manage to do her job, but, firstly, for some reason you did not indicate that there are countermeasures against torpedoes going to the ship, and most importantly, you did not indicate that after the volley it will have to reload the vehicles and 4-6 torpedoes from the first salvo will go to the target (if the 400 mm torpedoes are also included here). Give her time to recharge? oh hardly. Thus, at best, she will be able to destroy 1-2 ships from the group, but she will not kill everyone with impunity. Our submarines can do the same, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the penetration of an AUG into a warrant.
    1. Vadivak 19 September 2013 19: 19 New
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      Quote: Delta
      Oleg, your tendency to pathos and loud statements in this case brings you again.


      That's right, but as mmmm poses
    2. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 21: 28 New
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      Quote: Delta
      For one thing - CONDITIONALLY attack i.e. to photograph at the periscope, going in a five-node stroke

      The boat merely demonstrated that it was capable of attacking any chosen Protinik compound ship
      Quote: Delta
      entails noise and the detection of a submarine, which means it is most likely to be destroyed.

      This does not mean that they can maintain long contact with her.
      Quote: Delta
      for some reason did not indicate that there are countermeasures against torpedoes going to the ship

      this is a topic for another article
      Quote: Delta
      Thus, at best, she will manage to destroy 1-2 ships from the group, but she will not kill everyone with impunity

      It is clear that in reality no one will destroy the entire connection of ships of a single NPL

      Let him give one salvo and drown one of the Berks, in a day another dr. Diesel engine will crash the Ohio submarine - and that’s all, the strategic operation is frustrated, there’s nothing to do without the Tomahawks

      ..and it still knows how to put mines, here it will be fun!
      Quote: Delta
      which means it is most likely to be destroyed.

      In war as in war. In the end, Burke’s “exchange” for NPL is more than fair
      Quote: Delta
      and 4-6 torpedoes from the first salvo will go to the target (if 400 mm torpedoes are also included here)

      These are irrelevant trifles
      For example, the German Type209 has 8 TA caliber 533 mm

      Nobody is going to copy Gotland. Gotland - an already obsolete design (tab - 1992, commissioned in 1996). The main thing - there is a precedent, and this must be repelled

      The face of the Argentinean submarine "San Luis" (Type209). Yeah, how many trunks !!
      1. Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 22 New
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        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        This does not mean that they can maintain long contact with her.

        Oleg, TA duty officers shoot at the NMC without any preparation, simply by confirmed contact. So, there are few chances, unless you immediately put the GPA and start post-salvo maneuvering.
        Yes, there are few torpedoes for AVU 1-4! It will undoubtedly receive damage, but it will not go to the bottom, if not SBP.
    3. Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 09 New
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      Quote: Delta
      firing torpedoes of even the quietest submarine, even using the self-propelled torpedo method (which, incidentally, is NOT implemented on the NPL), entails noise and detection of the submarine, which means it will most likely be destroyed.

      Bravo, Vyacheslav! That’s what the practical experience of sub-melting means compared to tereoterizing even the very clever, but “float”!
      Otherwise, I agree to all 100%.
  18. rudolff 19 September 2013 16: 31 New
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    Of course, it’s not worth idealizing NAPL, but they will give odds to nuclear-powered submarines in all the main parameters of secrecy. Less noise, less created electromagnetic field, no radioactive trace, less wake and thermal. Although with regard to the thermal footprint in relation to boats with Stirling engines, the issue is somewhat controversial. Excess heat must be removed somewhere.
    Regarding the example of the successful penetration of our submarines into the AUG order, I have a counter question, but how can you not get in there? If the boat’s actions are not provocative or aggressive, who will forbid it to portray a sperm whale even under the aircraft carrier itself? Not in the zone of military conflict, of course. Well, they can throw a little grenades or simulators of deep bombs, or take a hook at the HACK, or maybe not. Was the boat discovered or not, the Americans did not give us receipts.
    1. Santa Fe 19 September 2013 22: 14 New
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      Quote: rudolff
      Although with regard to the thermal footprint for boats with Stirling engines, the issue is somewhat controversial

      A submarine with a 190 MW reactor delivers 45 million cal / s of seawater at a speed of 5 knots; this dissipated heat raises the water temperature directly behind the submarine by less than 0,2 ° C. Due to the mixing of a warm stream with surrounding water, this difference temperature decreases rapidly. At a distance of 1 km behind the submarine moving from 5k speed, it already amounts to only 0,01 ° C

      In the case of the Stirling engine, the bill goes only hundreds of kilowatts - 100 times lessthan the thermal power of the PLA reactor
      Quote: rudolff
      Regarding the example of the successful penetration of our nuclear submarines into the AUG order, I have a counter question, but how can you not get in there?

      boat penetrated undetected
      that’s the focus
      Quote: rudolff
      Was the boat discovered or not, the Americans did not give us receipts.

      How is it not handed?
      According to the results of "successful exercises," the lease contract for the Swedish boat was extended for another year. Think casual?

      In the month of October 2006, Kitty Hawk and her escort warships were undergoing exercises near Okinawa, and a Chinese Song class submarine shadowed the group then surfaced within 5 mi (8.0 km) of the group on October 26, 2006
      Another similar case. This time, a Chinese submarine, previously undetected, surfaced 5 miles from the Kitty Hawk
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 19 September 2013 23: 48 New
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        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        PLA with a reactor with a capacity of 190 MW, delivers 45 million cal / s to sea water at a speed of 5 knots
        This is with a fright? Unless the kooky reinsurer, the operator will unscrew the installation power to the maximum, dumping excess power through the etching valve. lol Ship nuclear installations are capable of VERY quickly changing power. So in real life, if fast high-speed maneuvering is not required, the operator keeps the power reserve somewhere a couple percent higher than what is currently required, or even displays the power gap “to zero”. I don’t remember exactly how much power is required for single-shaft ones, but for 667 BDR (BDRM), to provide such a move above the head, 20-25% of the nominal was enough, moreover, installing one side. And if you go under the propeller motors, turning off the main turbines, then 5% of the nominal 90 mW would be enough above your head. So, true, no one walks, and the minimum power by order is limited to 18%
        1. rudolff 19 September 2013 23: 58 New
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          While Oleg wrote the answer, Misantrop got ahead. And there’s nothing special to add. A boat with a Stirling heat engine leaves a larger thermal footprint than an apl at low speeds.
        2. Santa Fe 20 September 2013 01: 03 New
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          Quote: Misantrop
          So, true, no one walks, and the minimum power by order is limited to 18%

          Okay, 190 x 18% = 34 MW

          Gotland, 2 Stirling, max. power 200 hp (0,15 MW)

          And?
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 September 2013 10: 04 New
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            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Okay, 190 x 18% = 34 MW

            Gotland, 2 Stirling, max. power 200 hp (0,15 MW)

            And?

            And nothing. The lion's share of this power is triggered in turbines, i.e. cooling requires not superheated steam with a temperature of 310 degrees, but actually boiling water (at the entrance to the main condensers the temperature is about 100) to about 40-50 at the inlet of the condensate pumps. In real life, it turns out that the thermal trace of the submarine is no longer determined by heating, but by the mixing of the water layers during the passage of the submarine. The somewhat larger dimensions of the nuclear submarines are completely compensated by its hull shape, which is oriented specifically to the underwater course (in contrast to the submarine, which is forced to have more “surface” outlines). So, in fact, the thermal effect is almost the same and not large (on these moves, of course).

            And yet, those 18% that I mentioned appeared in connection with the terms of reference for the development of the Brig-M CPS (automatic control and protection system for nuclear weapons, project 667). Those. standard CPS simply could not guarantee reliable automatic control of nuclear power at a lower power, this was considered unnecessary. What requirements were put forward to the designers of newer plants, I do not know. In addition, at our RPK SN specifically, when we received the ship, we “squeezed” the plant so much in this regard that our CPS had excellent power and 2% of the nominal value, which we later used. Honestly speaking, it was a shock for us when we found out that in the output mode of the installation after returning to the base to provide a turbogenerator and an XM in the PBO mode and greatly reduced steam parameters (the so-called "steam generator wash mode with wet steam" when the boiling zone in them strongly shifted) quite enough ... those same 2% of the reactor power. This is despite the fact that the ATG was under a load of about 1000A. It is clear that in the sea we didn’t weird it ... winked
            1. Santa Fe 20 September 2013 15: 02 New
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              Thanks, Inters

              The conclusion was as follows: there is no direct connection between the operating mode of the switchgear and the power on the shafts; it all depends on the power take-off

              But there was one question left: if everything is so kosher, why are reactors with thermal capacities of 100 and 200 MW installed in PLA so wastefully and inefficiently? To take off at a certain moment more power? But how often do such cases occur?
              Quote: Misantrop
              The somewhat larger dimensions of the nuclear submarines are completely compensated by its hull shape, which is oriented specifically to the underwater course (in contrast to the submarine, which is forced to have more “surface” outlines).

              long-suffering Elk - the most modest of serial submarines - length 110, width 10 meters)

              German Type212 - length 57 meters, width 7 meters
              and this you call "a little more" ?!



              About the contours: what is the difference between Type212, for example, from the Estyut submarine (by the way, what for does Estew have such body contours?)
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 20 September 2013 22: 33 New
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                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Why are reactors so wastefully and inefficiently installed with thermal power of 100 and 200 MW each? To take off at a certain moment more power?
                With increasing speed, the required power also increases VERY significantly. And other ship systems also have a fair “appetite”, especially on strategists. Well, before tactical submarines the tasks of search and pursuit of both underwater and surface opponents are set. But is the low-speed boat able to keep up with the connection, cutting the 30-knot move? Moreover, using the “wolf pack method” does not work, it is too expensive a pleasure. Again, there is the concept of "reactor campaign", i.e. the amount of energy that it is able to give out before recharging the core. Roughly speaking - a year at maximum speed or 10 years at 10%. So there’s a little extravagance here, the motorist is also rare when he’s riding a “slipper on the floor” wink
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                long-suffering Elk - the most modest of serial submarines - length 110, width 10 meters)

                Well, why, the 705 project with the same width was only 81,4 m long, streamlined in a drop-shaped form. And with a power of 152 mW (rather than 155, Vicki is lying wink ) issued 42-odd knots of underwater running. By the way, nuclear weapons at this time worked at 85% of the power. And they were also serial.

                And the contours, so you brought the silhouette of a submarine with VNEU. She has the main mode of movement - also underwater, including - and under the RPD in the periscope position. Naturally, it will be reminiscent of the appearance of a nuclear submarine ... And due to power limitations, the designer’s installations are forced to reduce displacement, equipment, living conditions, etc. to the limit. has not only its cabins, but also its beds? Sleeping in shifts
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                what for does Estew have such body contours?
                This is how the British "Kulibin" organized the management of the nasal rudders wassat In general, a rare absurd project turned out IMHO
                1. rudolff 21 September 2013 00: 01 New
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                  Possibly, such a flat-lowered geometry of the bow of the Englishwoman’s hull suggests an increase in hydrodynamic pressure on the bow depth wheels and their “flooding” when moving above the surface.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 21 September 2013 00: 13 New
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                    Quote: rudolff
                    the flat-lowered geometry of the bow of the English woman’s body suggests an increase in hydrodynamic pressure on the bow depths and their “flooding” when moving by surface.
                    Hardly. Too high they are. Most likely, they simply did not want to place the rudder drives inside a sturdy case. Yes, and the very appearance of this masterpiece of shipbuilding does not seem to imply surface movement. This is hinted at by the non-retractable rudder design and the lack of glazing. Just a rising visor. IMHO there is very uncomfortable the officer in charge will be in the water
                    1. rudolff 21 September 2013 00: 49 New
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                      Own shipbuilding traditions. They generally have felling glazing boats rarely found.
      2. rudolff 20 September 2013 00: 01 New
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        Oleg, as for the discovery, I had in mind our apl, the above sounded as an example, not Gotland. This is a separate topic.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 47 New
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          any submarine going under water drives a surface wave above itself which is easily detected from space.
    2. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 39 New
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      there are reactors with natural circulation that make less noise. Nuclear submarines are significantly inferior to them only in shallow water where the contour will clog.
      NAPL coastal and with "Lira" at maximum speed probably all the same will not be able to compete.
  19. Walking 19 September 2013 16: 48 New
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    As stated in the article, the first target was the submarine of the AUG escort, and after this attack the boat will be discovered and drowned.
  20. repytw 19 September 2013 17: 10 New
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    As I understand our “Varshavyanka”, “Halibut” loses to the Swedes only in autonomy (4 days against 16), and in some respects (weapons, ammunition, depth of immersion) wins. Assad should be leased, according to the experience of India, 2-3 “Varshavyanki” (we have 20 of them), then it’s as if the Americans were thinking about bombing Syria, and the Syrians would swim and you would buy or order.
    1. Matio
      Matio 19 September 2013 20: 30 New
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      All well-wishers thought so when Kadafi threatened to sink the entire US fleet. And where is he now?
  21. Lex
    Lex 19 September 2013 18: 37 New
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    The Swedes were NEVER Vikings, according to the film by Mikhail Zadornov "Rurik. The Lost Real Estate".
    Respect your history, the history of a people who are much older and wiser than the "civilized" rabble.

    I didn’t read further than the title. The author is deeply disrespectful.
    1. Darakht
      Darakht 19 September 2013 19: 56 New
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      Materials authors, the little that I like to read outside is thin. literature. Some materials are controversial, sometimes superficial, for some they would be killed, but they all have one property - a person has his own point of view, he presents it rather curiously and defends it.
      Now, as for Zadornov. Spit this stuff out of your mouth immediately! Just immediately! referring to such crafts is at least stupid, thereby exposing yourself not in the best possible way. I was the only one who tried to instill a love for “academician TV” Leontiev, your Zadornov from the same opera. And finally, as I understand it, M. Zadornov is a great historian, a true patriot, then do not be lazy to look for the address of his permanent residence and appearance on TV at this address, immediately stop laughing at his jokes and stop respecting him like a Russian person. Are you Russian?
    2. fon_Stierlitz
      fon_Stierlitz 19 September 2013 20: 15 New
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      The historian from Zadornov is the same as the philologist - amusing. Therefore, I do not advise you to learn history from his films
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 50 New
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        In this case, he wrote the truth.
    3. Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 43 New
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      Quote: Lex
      I didn’t read further than the title. The author is deeply disrespectful.

      Dear Neofil! Do not insult, walking, the most worthy and respected forum users of the author. And if you don’t feel like sticking into the topic, it’s better to take a walk on the next site, where about h. Yakh and gingerbread, as well as gays and lesbians.
      Do not make confusion, do not interfere with communication with smart people. IMHO.
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 52 New
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        The worthy and respected needs the Navy to have no AUG. This is worse than "about hiakh and gingerbread."
        Understand yourself, why?
    4. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 47 New
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      The meaning of your comment is clear. Thank.
      PS. The Swedes also had Varangians - the Varangian is just a sea pirate, the earloops were river pirates
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. Santa Fe 20 September 2013 01: 19 New
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      Quote: Jacob31
      More on ... it seems)))

      You watched TV, you need to read more
      Quote: Jacob31
      In World War II, even from merchant ships found diesel-electric submarines

      Losses of the Japanese fleet from American submarines - 5 MILLION TONS
      for German submariners this figure was 3 times higher - the Germans sank 2770 ships and 130 warships of the main classes, with a tonnage of 14,5 MILLION TONS


      Quote: Jacob31
      A bunch of ships and no radars, no echo locators, not hydro locators. In

      Tell you in detail what forces were thrown to neutralize the Kriegsmarine? No radars helped until a dozen destroyers, frigates, and hunters were thrown at every U-bot.


      Otherwise, Britain would have died of starvation altogether - losses in 1942 exceeded 6,2 million tons of cargo
      Quote: Jacob31
      One DEPL entire US surface fleet will be able to destroy

      Post a list of the most successful aces submariners and their achievements?
      1. Jacob31
        Jacob31 20 September 2013 01: 28 New
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        Times have changed, and so have the means. Without practice, these are all thoughts out loud. All cards will be revealed in battle hi
        1. Santa Fe 20 September 2013 01: 44 New
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          Quote: Jacob31
          Times have changed, and so have the means.

          Well, the Gotland boats are not much like rusty German U-bots
          Quote: Jacob31
          Without practice, these are all thoughts out loud. All cards will be revealed in battle

          All this has already been dozens of times. First World War. Second World War. Cold war Falkland War. Modern operations.

          Submariners have never failed
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 23 New
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            the first Warsaw
      2. Kassandra
        Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 23 New
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        nevertheless, they blew the battle in the Atlantic in 1943 against radars even under the RPD
  23. Current 72
    Current 72 20 September 2013 03: 21 New
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    I read the article, read all the responses. Very and very interesting !!! Thank !!! Sincerely, Vladimir.
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 16: 28 New
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      read more, you will not regret
  24. old man54 20 September 2013 03: 27 New
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    Oleg, the flock is good, I personally liked it! good
    I appreciate you for your consistency in views and your inclinations in opinions, man! hi Systematically promoting the idea to the masses that AB is already the past, but the PL ... I share your idea in general, especially today! The only sad thing is that such submarines do not fight with us yet. But, who is in power, who is sitting in the Kremlin, what really is that ??
    After your previous article on espionage, I already decided that you started to betray the marine theme, I was at a loss, but here again - a very interesting and extraordinary article! Against the general background of urya-patriotic articles on politics in VO and "you give more boats and tugs for our Navy" it looks just like a breath of fresh air, thanks! It's nice to read your analytics, even if it’s sometimes controversial, BUT YOUR PERSONAL !! good hi
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 3 December 2013 15: 57 New
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      Well, why is he promoting this? Without AB, Russia will become the past. Moreover, the North Ocean is no longer arctic.
      What deck aviation is capable of in a serious confrontation has shown WW2 and the Falklands.
  25. Blinov_I 20 September 2013 04: 09 New
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    A bit of an abstract question. How effective are modern means of protecting surface ships from torpedoes? It seems that almost all Russian ships are armed with jet bombs, which are also designed to destroy torpedoes.
    1. Boa kaa 20 September 2013 20: 55 New
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      Quote: Blinov_I
      It seems that almost all Russian ships are armed with jet bombs, which are also designed to destroy torpedoes.

      At one time I had a chance to see the result of the work of the PTZ (it seems that there was a "boa constrictor"). I was personally impressed, even very much! But RBU ... yesterday.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Boa kaa 20 September 2013 21: 12 New
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    But why on the faces of the Yankees do not see cheeky smiles? Where did all the arrogance and the feeling of superiority go? Red eyes from tension, the sailors carefully peer into the sonar screens. There is something under the dark water ...

    A concern and perplexity arose from the fact that our DPL began to spread around the world (Varshavyanka, Halibut.), And the Germans are helping. Going to the shores of the Asia-Pacific region you need to know what you can meet there. So they conducted a full-scale experiment. The results were puzzling. By the way, you can significantly increase the time spent under water in terms of energy reserves by replacing it with new batteries (it seems tubular, silver-nickel). But expensive!
    And further. Oleg, thanks for the analytics - food for the brains of the “lazy" who are too lazy or have no time to climb the Internet and shovel other materials in search of such interesting things. Sincerely. KAA.
    1. sub307 20 September 2013 22: 37 New
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      Our diesel-electric submarines used to “successfully creep away” - 641 and the project, for example. German 209s too.
  28. Kostichous
    Kostichous April 11 2014 15: 33 New
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    All good!
    Tell me who has the cash program installed? What pros and cons have been identified during use?