Military Review

Humble, Caucasus: Ermolov is coming!

129
But the East will lift up a howl! ..
Fall on the snowy head,

Humble, Caucasus: Ermolov is coming!
A.S. Pushkin, "Prisoner of the Caucasus", 1821.


"Caucasian Proconsul". The attack on the "fortress" Caucasus

At the beginning of the 19 century, the Caucasus was called “warm Siberia”, constant wars, clashes with mountaineers, unhealthy climate, made the region very uncomfortable to live. Disgraced officers, punished soldiers were sent to the Caucasus. Military service in the Caucasus was not considered prestigious. At the same time, many officers, especially those who had no patronage, strove for the Caucasus, as wars with Turkey, Persia, and highlanders constantly thundered there. Here you could make a career as a simple officer, having noted in battle.

The beginning of the famous Caucasian War (1817 — 1864) is associated with the name of Yermolov, although some conflicts have occurred before. Arriving in the Caucasus, Alexei Petrovich Yermolov received the case from his predecessor, General Nikolai Rtishchev. Rtishchev ruled the Caucasian line and Georgia from 1811 of the year. The general was mainly engaged in affairs in Georgia, he suppressed the uprising in Kakheti, organized a punitive expedition to Khevsuretia (the Khevsurs supported the rebels in Kakheti). Rtishchev wanted to start cramping the mountaineers of Chechnya, but punitive raids were not supported by the emperor Alexander Pavlovich, who wanted to calm the Caucasus line with friendliness and condescension. It is clear that such a policy could not bring success. Highlanders perceived it as weakness.

Yermolov, after examining the border with Persia, brilliantly carried out the diplomatic mission entrusted to him. It was necessary to confirm the terms of the Gulustan Peace Treaty of 1813. The Persians had to abandon the territorial claims against Russia. In April 1817, the Russian embassy as part of 200, a man led by Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Yermolov arrived from Tiflis in Tehran. On the way, at the residence of the Crown Prince in Tabriz, a meeting was held with Abbas-Mirza. In Tehran, the Russian ambassador was received by the Persian Shah Fath Ali. The negotiations in Sultania (the Shah’s summer residence) were successful for Russia. Persia refused to claim the lost territory. And under the terms of the Gulistan peace treaty, Persia renounced all rights to Dagestan, Georgia, Imereti, Abkhazia and Mingrelia and recognized the authority of St. Petersburg all the conquered and voluntarily submitted to Russian region and Khanate - Karabakh, Ganja, Sheki, Shirvan, Derbent, Guba, Baku and Talyshinsky. Thus, until 1826, relative calm and peace were established on the Russian-Iranian border. It must be said that the Persian nobility was strongly influenced by the “atrocious” look of Yermolov, his power and self-confidence were forced to abandon any disputes. For the successful fulfillment of the diplomatic mission, Yermolov was awarded the rank of General of Infantry.

After that, Yermolov outlined a plan of action to “pacify” the Caucasus, which he then adhered to unswervingly. Considering the stubbornness and wildness of the mountain tribes, their unbridled self-will and hostility towards the Russians, as well as such features of their psychology as respect for strength and contempt for weakness, the new commander-in-chief decided that it was absolutely impossible to establish peaceful relations under the existing conditions. In the Caucasus, it was necessary to attack, constantly and systematically, without leaving any raid or robbery unpunished. Yermolov spoke about the Caucasus: “This is a huge fortress, one must either storm it, or seize trenches; the assault will be expensive, and its success is not true, so we will overlap it. ”

The first goal of Yermolov was to ensure the security of the territories already attached to Russia. The commander-in-chief presented to the emperor a plan for consistently establishing Russian sovereignty over the mountainous regions of Chechnya, Dagestan, and the North-West Caucasus (Cherkessia). Its essence consisted in the complete conquest of the mountain tribes. At the same time, Yermolov called his predecessors in the matter of pacifying the Caucasus "indifferent chiefs." Emperor Alexander Pavlovich approved this plan; by this time he had already freed himself from a part of liberal illusions.

If the predecessors of Yermolov preferred to focus on administrative and diplomatic activities, the new commander-in-chief preferred military methods. He did not persuade, did not cajole gifts, money, mountain owners, who were hostile to Russia. Yermolov arrived in the Caucasus at a time when the Russian administration was trying to introduce general imperial laws in free highlanders' societies, without interfering with customs and religion. However, the mountaineers were outraged that they were deprived of their usual business and source of income - the raids on their neighbors, the robbery of the caravan routes. In addition, the mountaineers now had to perform some duties - to take part in the construction of roads, bridges, fortifications, and their repair. The Russian authorities have long tried to rely on the local nobility. However, they did not always remain loyal to Russia. Often openly opposed Russian.

The situation was complicated by the fact that Russia and the Transcaucasus were connected overland by only one single communication — the Georgian Military Road, equipped by Russian soldiers. Yes, and on it without a reliable convoy to go was unsafe. The attacks of "non-peaceful" highlanders on the settlements of the Caucasian line and Georgia did not cease. The slave trade continued to flourish, trapped people were sold on the Black Sea coast. Prisoners were taken to Istanbul and further to the Middle East. The Ottoman Empire still relied on the mountain peoples, especially on the Circassians. The Caucasian feudal lords mostly recognized the power of Russia, as long as it was profitable for them. They were paid a salary and did not interfere in the internal affairs of the communities.

In general, the situation was unstable. It was necessary to resolve the issue with the "non-peaceful" mountain tribes. The beginning of the Caucasian War was inevitable. From the policy of individual punitive expeditions, Yermolov moved to penetrate deep into the territory of the mountain tribes. Roads were built, glades were made in mountain forests, fortifications were erected, most of which were inhabited by Cossacks. Around the new villages for hundreds of meters cut down forests for safety. Since the time of Yermolov, for many soldiers the profession of the lumberjack has become the mainstream. Local residents were also involved in the construction. Creating roads, glades, fortifications made it possible to approach the predatory settlements, to create the bridgeheads necessary for the future offensive.

It must be said that by the beginning of the Caucasian War, General Yermolov did not have a significant army. In the Georgian (Caucasus) Corps, the state had 45 thousand bayonets and about 7 thousand sabers, but in reality there were about 37 thousand bayonets and about 6 thousand sabers in the ranks. Artillery park corps consisted of 132 guns. In a single fist, it was a serious force. But the Georgian corps had to cover the vast and dangerous border with Persia and Turkey. His garrisons maintained order in the Transcaucasus and guarded the Caucasian fortified line and communications. Nevertheless, Yermolov decided to speed up the process of “imposing a fortress” on the Caucasus. In his programmatic report to the emperor about the beginning of the conquest of Chechnya, the general reported on the transfer of the left flank and center of the fortified line from the banks of the Terek to the Sunzha River. In 1818, the Nazranovsky redoubt and the strengthening of Pregradny Stan were built on this river. In the same year, in the lower reaches of the river, the fortress of Grozny was laid. It was built at a distance of one transition from the Cossack village of Chervlen.

On the Caucasian Fortified Line, the situation was as follows: the right wing of the line was threatened by militant and restless Circassians Circassians, the center — numerous and brave Kabardians, and the Chechens lived against the left wing beyond the River Sunzha. At this point, the Circassians were weakened by internal conflicts, a plague raged among Kabardians (according to Yermolov, the plague almost completely destroyed the population of Malaya Kabarda), they could make raids only in small groups, therefore the Chechens were the greatest danger. As Yermolov noted: the Chechens lived downstream the Terek, “the worst of the robbers attacking the line. Their society is very sparsely populated, but it has multiplied enormously in the past few years, for the villains of all other nations have been friendly accepted, leaving their land for any crimes. Here they found accomplices who were immediately ready either to revenge for them, or to participate in robberies, and they served them as faithful guides in the lands that they themselves were not familiar with. Chechnya can rightly be called the nest of all the robbers ... ".

From the fortress of Grozny in the direction of Vladikavkaz, located on the Georgian Military Highway, a chain of fortifications was arranged. She walked parallel to the main Caucasian ridge. As a result of the movement of the fortified line from the Terek to Sunzha, Chechen villages located between two rivers passed into Russian citizenship. Each built fortress had its own purpose. In 1819, the fortress of Sudden was built. She was erected in the foothills of Dagestan near the St. Andrew’s aul (Endery). This aul was notorious as a slave trade center. The fortress blocked the way of the mountaineers in their raids on Russian settlements on the Nizhny Terek via the Kumyk steppes. At the same time, the Chechen mountaineers closed the way to Northern Dagestan, to the lands of the Kumyks, behind which was located the Tarkovskoye Shamkhalstvo attached to the empire. The eastern wing of the Caucasian line stretched to the Caspian Sea.

The construction of fortifications on Sunzhe did not mean the beginning of an open war. Ermolov gave the Highlanders a chance to move on to a peaceful life. He gathered the Chechen oldest of the main villages and proposed to stop the predatory raids. The general promised not to punish the former villains, but he demanded that there should be no new raids and robberies by the Chechens. The Chechens were supposed to renew their former oath of allegiance, return all the prisoners. Otherwise, the Chechens were declared clear enemies, with all the ensuing consequences. Chechen elders asked for time to think, to explain to the people, to draw time. Supporters of Russia among the Chechens reported that the most famous robbers, not hoping for forgiveness, angered others, inclined to their side doubters. Many clans, related to them by kinship, refused to negotiate. The "intransigent" said that the Russians would not dare to stick themselves in the mountain forests, the fortresses were built only for fear, and if the Chechens were firm, then the Russians would return to their former positions. However, Yermolov was not going to retreat beyond the Terek. The Sunzhensky line actually split Chechnya and became a springboard for further offensive.

Yermolov used a new tactic in relation to Cherkessia. New fortifications were built on the Kuban River and its tributaries, especially on the Malka. Created new Cossack villages. Yermolov for the first time officially allowed to pursue the robbers on the opposite side of the Kuban, on its left bank. As a result, free Circassian raids for capturing people, selling them into slavery or receiving ransom, and stealing livestock rarely go unpunished. The creation of fortified lines put mountain tribes, accustomed to robbery, to a difficult economic situation. Russian army deprived of their source of income. In addition, the fortified lines blocked the path to winter pastures and the best lands on the plain. The mountaineers had to either come to terms with the Russian authorities and the loss of the former predatory way of life, or starve.

From the point of view of progress, the intentions of the Russian authorities were themselves noble: the general rule of law was established for Russia, the dominance of noble and rich people over ordinary mountaineers was gone; the bloody civil strife and the slave trade system ceased, and the locals, not just the neighbors, also suffered from it; the traditional system of robber raids has gone into the past; ensured the safety of trade, traffic, developed economy; developed a system of education and education, medicine; cities were built, etc. However, it was obvious that all the noble and reasonable arguments were not worth a penny for the robbers. It was impossible to break the vicious system only by “friendliness and condescension,” as Alexander Pavlovich originally wanted. The path to good lay through violence (demonstrative spanking).

After the creation of the Sunzhensky Line, the second stage began - the offensive against the Caucasus Mountains. From the line began to cut through the clearances in pristine forests, which could lead the troops and strike at the robber nests. Yermolov punished "non-peaceful" mountaineers unmercifully, according to the law of wartime - the settlements were destroyed, all those who resisted were destroyed, the inhabitants were resettled to lowland lands. From the villages that were found to be robberies, they took fines, as a rule, part of the herds, the cattle went to feed the troops. According to Eastern customs, the Caucasian governor ordered to take hostages from the families of local nobility, elders - amanatov. It was a common practice for the region. The Russians, in particular, when they fought with the Persians, exchanged with the hostages themselves. Most hostages were treated well. They lived a free life, but far from their small homeland. Many such amanats lived in Astrakhan.

Yermolov refused the practice of predecessors who tried to appease the Highlanders with gifts, money, in exchange for safety. He immediately responded to the blow with a blow. During Yermolov’s trip to Iran to the Persian Shah, the Highlanders took hostage Colonel Shevtsov, Chief of Staff of the Corps, and demanded a huge ransom of silver carts in 18. Yermolov ordered the immediate arrest of the elders of the largest villages and promised to hang them in a month if the Russian colonel was not released. Shevtsov was immediately released.

In 1819, military expeditions were conducted against "non-peaceful" auls - Bolshoi Chechen, Shali, Germenchuk, Avtury, Geldigen, Mayrtun. The fortress of Grozny was the base from which Russian troops made expeditions across Chechnya. The Russian detachment under the command of Major General V. Sysoyev destroyed the nest of Dadi-Yurt. After that, there was a temporary lull in Chechnya.


Portrait of A. P. Yermolov by P. Zakharov-Chechen.

Offensive on the Mountain Dagestan

Not stopping the attack on Chechnya, Yermolov pursued a policy of military pressure and Gorny Dagestan. Gradually, among the mountaineers, an understanding emerged that Yermolov’s policy was not a temporary step, but a long-term strategy. Consolidation of Russian opponents began, and pressure on supporters of Russia intensified. In the winter of 1818-1919. most of the Dagestan rulers came out against Russian rule. Ahmed Khan Avarsky, Surkhay Khan Kazikumyksky, Abdul-beyk Ersinsky, villages of Mehtulinsky, Karakaydagsky, Tabasaransky possessions, free Akushinsky society (Akusha) took part in the uprising. Dagestan rulers relied on the secret support of Persia. A military threat arose over the feudal formations that had assumed Russian citizenship - Tarkov Shamkhal, Karakaydag Utsmiy and others.

Yermolov praised the threat highly and sent Russian units to help the feudal possessions loyal to Russia. The Caucasian commander-in-chief gave the order to the commander of the local troops, General A. Pestel, to conduct a military expedition to the mountainous part of Dagestan. But he apparently underestimated the degree of threat and took with him only two incomplete infantry battalions and a small detachment of local equestrian police. Pestel's detachment took the center of the Karakaidag Khanate - the village of Bashli. But here the Russian squad was surrounded by large enemy forces. The situation was saved by his decisive actions, Colonel Mishchenko, he broke through the corridor in the encirclement and the detachment was able to leave for Derbent. The squad suffered heavy losses - about 500 people were killed and wounded.

The news of this failure of the Russian troops stirred Gorny Dagestan. Victory over the Russian troops was celebrated even in Persia. In Tabriz, Abbas-Mirza organized a big feast and gun salute. However, this is the success of the rebels and ended. Yermolov defeated the troops of Ahmed Khan Avar. Avar Khan escaped from their possessions. Then, the Caucasian commander-in-chief with five battalions of infantry and 300 Cossacks defeated the forces of the Mekhtulinsky Khan. The independence of the Mekhtuli Khanate was eliminated. Khan's residences in Cengutai and Small Cengutai were devastated. At the beginning of 1819, Yermolov, with a small detachment, stormed the high-altitude settlement of Akusha, the center of the Akusha (Dargin) Union, by storm. Akushinsky alliance was considered the most warlike and strongest in Dagestan and could put 15 thousand warriors. The forces of Yermolov numbered the 3 infantry battalion, the 500 linear and Don Cossacks, the local militia. Akushins suffered a complete defeat. Akushins (Dargin) had to take Russian citizenship, they retained self-government. This Russian victory had a big resonance in the Caucasus. It must be said that those mountain villages that showed obedience were pardoned and retained immunity. Yermolov showed that humility leads to salvation.

Military operations in Dagestan continued. In August 1819 of the year General VG Madatov, who replaced Pestel, led a detachment of two battalions, 300 Cossacks and 8 guns, advancing from the south, from the direction of the Cuban province, occupied the Tabasaran region and defeated Abdul-beyr of Ersinsky. Abdul-bek fled. Madatov, a fearless and determined commander, forced most of the villages of Tabasarani to take the oath of Russia. A large role in the operation was played by the Dagestan cavalry militia under the command of Aslan Khan Kyurinsky and a detachment of the Tabasarans themselves, who went over to the Russians.

The Avar Khan united with the Chechens and Lezgins, and, having assembled an army of 5-6 thousand people, set up his camp on the Sulak River, 16 versts from the fortress of Sudzenshnya under construction. Yermolov performed with 4 ths. Detachment and in a fierce battle, crushed the forces of the Highlanders. At this time, Adil-Khan Karakaydagsky, who was considered one of the main supporters of Russia in the region, spoke out against the Russians. Ermolov immediately reacted by expelling the punitive detachment. Khan's residence was burned, the palace was destroyed to the ground, and the land of the Khan was transferred to Russian ownership. Adil Khan, expelled from his possessions, united with the troops of Surkhay Khan’s son and other feudal lords, under their command accumulated impressive forces - up to 15 thousand horsemen and foot soldiers. In mid-December 1819, Yermolov defeated the army of the Highlanders. The fate of Primorsky and Northern Dagestan was decided. These areas became part of the Russian Empire.

Humble, Caucasus: Ermolov is coming!

Map of the Caucasus. 1824.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
"Your exploits are the heritage of the Fatherland, and your glory belongs to Russia." Hero of Russia Alexey Petrovich Ermolov
Humble, Caucasus: Ermolov is coming!
Humble, Caucasus: Ermolov is coming! Part of 2
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  1. Boot under the carpet
    Boot under the carpet 19 September 2013 08: 46 New
    28
    I would put a monument to him in every district of Moscow!
    1. AndreyAB
      AndreyAB 19 September 2013 17: 44 New
      10
      Yes, where are you Ermolov of our days?
    2. Ruslan_F38
      Ruslan_F38 19 September 2013 18: 22 New
      +9
      Quote: Boot under the carpet
      I would put a monument to him in every district of Moscow!


      And I would put in every district of Grozny, and indeed in every small-scale large city of the Caucasus - that they would remember.
      1. insafufa
        insafufa 25 August 2019 19: 08 New
        0
        Not a very smart idea of ​​monuments in every village. It’s like putting a bust of Shamil Basayev in each school. The Caucasus is a place where you need to act very subtly from your own experience to give someone money to send someone. The whip should always generously overlap with the carrot. But without it, power must be supported by finances. Otherwise, we’ll get another Adina company not in Chechnya so in Dagistan. If people are beaten for a long time, then they become not susceptible to a whip.
    3. Michael_59
      Michael_59 19 September 2013 19: 14 New
      +4
      Every region of Chechnya is better ...
  2. Clueless
    Clueless 19 September 2013 08: 50 New
    21
    it is necessary to shoot a film on it
    1. Pettrs
      Pettrs 19 September 2013 21: 07 New
      +3
      The film is:
      "In the Footsteps of General Ermolov" dir. Sergey Rozhentsev
  3. Alex65
    Alex65 19 September 2013 09: 05 New
    19
    Thanks Alexander for the article that you are trying to restore the connection of the times
  4. carbofo
    carbofo 19 September 2013 09: 11 New
    +9
    You can drop mean tears
    But don't stop killing
    Fatherland fate is at stake
    There is no mercy for the enemy for a just cause
  5. sird64
    sird64 19 September 2013 09: 18 New
    +8
    The great warrior was eternal memory
  6. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 19 September 2013 09: 19 New
    +5
    great person
  7. omsbon
    omsbon 19 September 2013 09: 50 New
    23
    The Caucasus is looking forward to the new Yermolov and God willing - it will wait!
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 19 September 2013 10: 18 New
      16
      If the top leadership of the country has the will, then there will not be a long wait for the new Ermolov, and now there are decent and strong officers!
    2. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 14: 45 New
      19
      omsbon
      The funniest thing is really waiting, or Ermolov. or peasants like Yevkurov, who can be called a real RUSSIAN normal local officer, who from the Soviet period remained quite a lot (except for the Czechs) tired of the dominance of local clans and feudal lords who dress up under Russian officials. They understand very well. that only a Russian can rightly manage, who has no clan interests ... the main thing is that he be honest ....

      And further. for those of our colleagues — mostly, for some reason, with Kazakh identities that like to talk about Russian colonialists: pay attention — even Ermolov tried to agree at first — stop living as a robbery and the slave trade — and nobody will touch you ... they didn’t want to- received. We just had no choice. Imagine that now the Lithuanians will raid trains in Kaliningrad, rob passengers and sell them into slavery in Poland :))) At the same time, Poland will incite and incite them to us, and they will raid both the Kaliningrad region and Belarus- again, for the slaves. Do you think anyone will tolerate such Lithuanians? And will anyone truly stand up for them when they are quiet? But the situation then was precisely this — by numerous tearful requests, we took into the Republic of Ingushetia the Georgian principalities, Armenians, who were threatened with extermination from the Persians and Turks, who did not intend to stop expansion. So, do not shed tears over the unfortunate abreks - they just made them calm down with their sweet habits.

      To the author. Thank you very much ... but, please: the topic of the influence on the aggressiveness of the Vainakhs of Persia and Turkey has not been disclosed. But these poor, cannibalistic regional powers, who were trying to build not only the Caucasus for themselves, began to use the mountaineers much earlier than the dates you described, as a well-known rubber product, to achieve their goals and to protect themselves, beloved ones, from Russian bayonets ( that the Highlanders themselves despised and did not consider people, the fate of the Circassians, whom Turkey, who deceived them, almost completely killed) well illustrates, incited, armed and financed the highlanders against us, should at least mention who and when announced the first gazavat, and with which the goal .... Well, of course, it would be worth mentioning, nevertheless, the activities of the British and French - they could not have done without these .... Oh, I'm sorry that I want a lot of tasty and preferably more .... just a good article . Thank! :)))
      1. astra
        astra 20 September 2013 01: 28 New
        +4
        Quote: smile
        . Imagine that now the Lithuanians will raid trains in Kaliningrad, rob passengers and sell them into slavery in Poland :))) At the same time, Poland will incite and incite them to us, and they will raid both the Kaliningrad region and Belarus- again, for the slaves. Do you think anyone will tolerate such Lithuanians?

        And they are already doing the Balts against Russia now, just not by raids, but by anti-Russian antics, then they move the monuments, then they infringe on the Russian-speaking population, etc. if only it would be painful to "bite Russia" by currying favor with the owners of democratizators. And our government is too soft to put them in their place.
        1. smile
          smile 20 September 2013 03: 00 New
          +2
          astra
          Yes, they do, but still not ... not like the Czechs did with the Russians, the blue dream of Lithuanian politicians ... but there is still a different mentality ... even the Lithuanians cannot do this ..... but monuments. ..yes, in Klaipeda on Victory Square, which is a five-minute walk from my house, there was a monument-shot magpie on a granite pillar ..... in 95, the monument was demolished ....... and under it lay a couple of hundred winners, not five. as in the Latvian version ... and no one blundered, Elbon’s time ...... now in its place is a flowerbed in three disgusting colors of the Lithuanian flag .....
          By the way, during the assault on Klaipeda and the Curonian Spit, more soldiers died than during the perfect assault on Königsberg ..... which the Germans considered unprotected .... :))))
      2. insafufa
        insafufa 25 August 2019 19: 15 New
        0
        I do not agree with your conclusion that put the Russian and clanism will depart. The clan system has no nationality. It’s not necessary to go far for examples. You look at Ruslan Ostashka about a young technocrat appointed from the center as he made his clan in Sevastopol very quickly. Yes, our Radiy Khabirov brought the newcomers with him from the town near Moscow and appointed all the ministers. Only these comrades behave like elephants in a china shop, not understanding where they got. Any bureaucrat leads his clan with him until there is a law that it is forbidden to appoint people associated with you according to your old work and will continue.
  8. George
    George 19 September 2013 10: 12 New
    11
    Ermolov’s authority in the East was so great that the Khiva khan addressed him only as “The magnanimous and great ruler of the countries between the Caspian and Black Seas”. And one adjutant outbuilding will later say that if Ermolov had ordered an oath even to the Iranian shah, no one in the Caucasus would have dared to disobey him (for such "outrageous" words, Nicholas I would send this truth-seeker to Siberia).
  9. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 19 September 2013 10: 15 New
    13
    "If Yermolov's predecessors preferred to focus on administrative and diplomatic activities, then the new commander-in-chief preferred military methods ..."- and rightly, it is impossible with them otherwise. In the Caucasus, only power is revered.
    1. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 14: 54 New
      +6
      Valery Neonov
      In my opinion, it is necessary to combine, Ermolov began to crush them only then. when it was not possible to stop their robberies and the slave trade in a peaceful way ... and, by the way, when the Highlanders were convinced that banditry was more expensive, they again peacefully agreed ... and agreed as a result, without any infringement of their rights. You can’t build a world with a bayonet (we couldn’t fall before the genocide), you can only explain with a bayonet that you don’t have to touch the Russians ... and when you explained, you still need to agree ... and honestly .... without taking your hands far from weapons ... :)))
  10. Ossetian.
    Ossetian. 19 September 2013 10: 29 New
    0
    Quote: omsbon
    The Caucasus is looking forward to the new Yermolov and God willing - it will wait!


    And you can say what do you mean when you write that the Caucasus will wait?
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 10: 48 New
      +8
      Quote: Ossetian.
      And you can say what you mean when you write that Kakaz will wait?

      Adequate answer, buddy. How much can you substitute the second cheek, it's time to remember about an eye for an eye.
      1. Ossetian.
        Ossetian. 19 September 2013 10: 57 New
        -1
        And what will be the adequate answer?
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 10: 59 New
          +2
          Read the article again. Everything is written there.
          1. Ossetian.
            Ossetian. 19 September 2013 11: 09 New
            0
            I read the article. I meant your subjective opinion.
            1. xan
              xan 19 September 2013 12: 19 New
              +9
              Quote: Ossetian.
              I read the article. I meant your subjective opinion.

              I hope it’s not a secret for you that Caucasians in Russia, to put it mildly, do not like it. Are you tired of this yourself? Maybe it suits you?
              1. Ossetian.
                Ossetian. 19 September 2013 14: 20 New
                -5
                This is where in Russia ??? don’t you have to speak on behalf of Russia, out of your hatred of us ... or did you decide that if we are not liked by a couple of hundred or maybe a couple of thousand nationalists in Moscow, does it give you the right to speak on behalf of our entire MULTINATIONAL COUNTRY?
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 14: 33 New
                  +9
                  Quote: Ossetian.
                  that if in Moscow we don’t like a couple of hundred or maybe a couple of thousand nationalists,

                  Are you serious? If you conduct an HONEST poll, then I doubt that the matter will be limited to a couple of millions. Do not take it to heart, there are many good people among you, but the offset in this race will always be bad.
                  1. Ossetian.
                    Ossetian. 19 September 2013 14: 51 New
                    12
                    How can one not take such words to heart?
                    I am grateful to God for everything, including the fact that I was born and live in Russia.
                    I perceive my country as one big family (although probably now many having read these words will make fun of me).
                    As the saying goes:
                    Terrible adversities will subside
                    Russia will defeat its enemies.
                    And the name of our great people
                    How thunder throughout the universe thunders!

                    Loved, love and will love my country despite the hatred for us.
                    Glory to Russia!!!
                    And God grant us all strength and patience to save her !!!
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 15: 15 New
                      +6
                      Quote: Ossetian.
                      Loved, love and will love my country despite the hatred for us.
                      Glory to Russia!!!

                      Sincerely !!! +
                2. Rider
                  Rider 19 September 2013 16: 42 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Ossetian.
                  This is where in Russia ??? you don’t need to speak on behalf of Russia, out of your hatred of us ... or you decided that if we are not liked by a couple of hundred in Moscow or maybe a couple of thousand nationalists


                  I’m just wondering, do you think that with the exception of the aforementioned contingent, OTHER RUSSIA refers to Caucasians with (if not love then) sympathy?

                  you are an optimist.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Ossetian.
                    Ossetian. 19 September 2013 16: 59 New
                    +2
                    Well, how do you personally feel about it?
                    1. Rider
                      Rider 19 September 2013 17: 08 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Ossetian.
                      Well, how do you personally feel about it?


                      if the question is for me (it is advisable to put a reference at the beginning of the post - then it will be clearer to whom you are contacting)
                      then certainly without sympathy.

                      such is se la vi.
                      1. Ossetian.
                        Ossetian. 20 September 2013 11: 19 New
                        +3
                        Rider
                        it was more correct to write: ce la vie in Kazakhstan!
                  3. Lissa
                    Lissa 20 September 2013 00: 48 New
                    0
                    Please tell me why Caucasians are not beloved in Russia?
                    1. smile
                      smile 20 September 2013 02: 19 New
                      +2
                      Lissa
                      What interesting question ... do you really understand this?
                      Okay, I explain, probably because we know that some representatives of the Caucasus were able to commit a much more successful genocide of the Russian population in a separate part of Russia than, for example, the Germans - genocide of Jews in Europe ... no, of course, the Germans destroyed Soviet Jews immediately , unlike European ones ... I don't know why, really (can you tell me?) ... what do you think, if the Germans did not repent for the death of the Jews (okay, there is no need to repent before the Russians, every German knows, we are Untermensch ) Would the "international community" love them very much? :)))) Well, and some representatives of the Caucasian peoples, who for some reason are not pulled down by their compatriots, behave like SS men, or ordinary ghouls from the ordinary Wehrmacht, which are not much better, drunk with blood, but not experiencing any pressure from our side ... if you don't know, Nazism was crushed by the Russians .... Chechen Nazism, supported by Europe, was also crushed ... but we do not touch you, you will die by yourself ...
                      Yes, by the way, assuming that you may not be flirting, which I doubt, I want to ask you, are you a boy or a girl ... and how old are you, the last is more important for the assessment, how adequate you are. First, to what degree of "frankness" you can talk to ... if it's not difficult for you, please answer ... :)))) You will answer, right?
                      1. Lissa
                        Lissa 20 September 2013 03: 06 New
                        +2
                        Smile,

                        Unlike your nickname, mine seems to make it clear whether I am a "boy" or a "girl". :) If you have any difficulties with this, then the question about the adequacy should be asked to me;)

                        To the point.
                        Judging by your comment, you are embittered or pretend to be embittered. Such feeling does not lead to anything good. I am a person who prefers to move forward. You, apparently, look back and draw energy from the past to maintain your bitterness. For what? Do you feel better about it?

                        Do I understand correctly: Are you upset that the Germans do not repent before the Russians? Do you dislike the Germans?
                      2. smile
                        smile 20 September 2013 13: 31 New
                        +2
                        Lissa
                        Good answer.
                        Unlike you, I have a name on my profile. And to determine the gender by the nickname is difficult, sometimes annoying errors happen ... :))))
                        I’m not embittered and don’t have any bad feelings for the Germans :))) I’m generally quite calm and funny, although at times vicious ... :))) I just brought you a fairly accurate comparison and answered the question .. .. do you understand the answer? Explanations required? Feel free to contact - I will answer .... But
                        As a undoubtedly Russian-speaking person, you cannot but know what is the reason for our somewhat strained relationship. In this case, your question is somewhat strange ... why, one asks, to ask such questions? To trigger a discussion?
                        Forgive me for curious about your age — if you are twenty years old and you have been living in Germany for all your conscious time — then you really might not have known about Russian-Caucasian relations ... and not about long-standing but that it happened ten or twenty years ago and is happening now (in light of this, your attempt to label me with a living past looks ... albeit ridiculous). But there is the Internet ... if you get to the VO website, then you can’t call you unreasonable, silly girls don’t get here. All smart, how to select ... Please, stay that way in the future. :)))
                      3. Lissa
                        Lissa 20 September 2013 15: 32 New
                        +2
                        No, I do not live my entire conscious life in Germany. Most of my life I lived in military / post-war Chechnya.

                        Yes, please explain your answer. Your comparison and the thought that you wanted to convey in the previous message slipped away from me in a somewhat chaotic presentation of your thoughts.
                    2. Shkodnik65
                      Shkodnik65 20 September 2013 13: 51 New
                      +2
                      I am a person who prefers to move forward. You, apparently, look back and draw energy from the past to maintain your bitterness.

                      Typical response of a typical European with a "fire of democracy in his chest." Dear, we are all people, we all move and think ahead. But ... 1819 - the Chechens steal (capture) people for ransom, 2000 - the Chechens steal (capture) people for ransom. What has changed besides the date ??? Leave your "democratic worldview" for some Munich or Dresden. In the Caucasus, as well as hundreds of years ago, ONLY strength is respected. You will not understand that the Russian people are not angry. We are CONCERNED that in our country entire regions continue to live according to medieval, feudal laws and impose these laws on us. Well, if it's closer to business: go to Chechnya, (Ingushetia, Dagestan ...) just like that, but not to the capital, but to the periphery. And try to get back from there ... as alive as possible. After that, you can discuss this topic.
                    3. Lissa
                      Lissa 20 September 2013 15: 44 New
                      -1
                      The dates and facts that you cite are very one-sided. You are satisfied with the results, not trying to understand the reasons.

                      I don’t want to bother myself and you with setting forth the facts of the atrocious attitude of (tsarist) Russia towards the Caucasian peoples. Yes and there is no sense in this, as far as I see.

                      Yes, I often visit Chechnya. And my Russian friends and Germans even visited me there. Everyone returned from there alive :)
              2. Lissa
                Lissa 20 September 2013 03: 52 New
                0
                Well, kill my reputation with your minuses, lose an interesting interlocutor repeat and so you will continue to assent to each other, not wanting to consider the issue from other sides. The exact same can be observed in some Chechen forums where people suffer from the same problem - "Give me food to make sure that my point of view is correct, and everyone who does not share it is simply mentally retarded."))
                1. smile
                  smile 20 September 2013 13: 40 New
                  +2
                  Lissa
                  You continue to surprise ... :)))) It turns out that you visit Chekhov forums ... you think. what you didn’t read there enough for us to have warm feelings in return? :))
                  Therefore, my yesterday's rather sharp comment was absolutely fair ... :)))
                  I liked the virtuosity with which you expressed your indignation at the "bad person" who dared to put a minus on you ... :))) But here's the catch - an interesting interlocutor. which you think you are, in fact, you never said anything ... :))) Can you still express your point of view, eh? :)))
                2. Lissa
                  Lissa 20 September 2013 15: 22 New
                  +1
                  Quote: smile
                  You continue to surprise ... :)))


                  Yes, I know how to surprise bully

                  Quote: smile
                  Can you still express your point of view, eh? :)))


                  I believe that all of us here are doing just that - we express our point of view. ;)
              3. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 21 September 2013 18: 15 New
                +3
                Lissa "Well, kill my reputation with your minuses, lose an interesting interlocutor"
                Well, just modesty itself ... are you all there under the German flag? Hehe ...
        2. I am a Russian
          I am a Russian 19 September 2013 17: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: Ossetian.
          a couple of hundred or maybe a couple of thousand nationalists,


          it is clear that the bitch thinks badly. But leave the nationalists aside for now. There would be the same attitude of the siloviki towards Russians and blacks - there would not be so many Kakaz people in Moscow. Too many "get away with"
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 21: 33 New
            +1
            Quote: I am a Russian
            it is clear that the bitch thinks bad.

            It’s impossible so unambiguously. You see seen enough videos on the Internet, and the veil of eyes shut. There are people everywhere, and this Ossetian judging by the comments refers to them.
            1. Ossetian.
              Ossetian. 20 September 2013 10: 24 New
              0
              I greet you!
            2. I am a Russian
              I am a Russian 20 September 2013 23: 43 New
              -1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              seen enough videos on the Internet,


              the conclusion is not a mature person or want to seem so. And in your own words I will add -

              Quote: Ingvar 72
              It’s not so clear


              Quote: Ingvar 72
              judging by the comments apply to them.

              and the "nightingales" "singing" are one thing ... but it's better not to expose your back.
              1. Ossetian.
                Ossetian. 21 September 2013 21: 21 New
                -1
                If you had ever seen or even been in serious situations, then you would have known how not to substitute your back. And so the words of a nearby seeing person.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. Ossetian.
            Ossetian. 20 September 2013 10: 47 New
            +4
            I am a Russian.

            The difference between me and you personally is that I, because of people like you, will never allow myself to be offensively expressed to the Russian people and any other people.
            I will tell you this: even if there are not thousands, but millions of nationalists like you, I will love my country and believe me, I will do much more for you than you. My love for the Motherland is based on spiritual and moral qualities because I am an Orthodox person ... and you are just a ball that is inflated with its own hatred (where you kick there and fly).
            And before you open your mouth, read books ... though, so as not to strain your brain, I’ll tell you: Ossetians are the most heroic people of Russia. (you can check this information in Internet resources).
            Hatred of other nations (and even more so of a nation that is an INTEGRAL part of Russia) in real life is a sign of dementia, and if it manifests itself in the internet, it is a sign of its complete absence (UMA).
            Nationalism always generates xenophobia and chauvinism since always relies on the idea of ​​the superiority of their nation over another, and this leads to discrimination against conflicts, the collapse of countries, for example, Ukrainian or Croatian national separatism - as a result of de facto there is neither Yugoslavia nor the USSR ... and Nazism is German nationalism, or even Pan-German, more precisely. ... nationalism is ruining and weakening Russia, it is splitting its society and its peoples breeding ethnic hatred and conflict.
            IN THE USSR, ALL NATIONS WERE FROM OTHER THAN EXCEPT A HANDLE OF SOMETHING WHICH IS AMONG ALL ALL NATIONS!
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Ossetian.
                Ossetian. 21 September 2013 21: 15 New
                -1
                I am a Russian (1)

                Your biomass is Russian and your spirit, culture and upbringing are far from Russian. Russian-Orthodox people and the Orthodox are inherent in such qualities as: BLESSNESS, KIND, MIND, LOVE, HE IS BORN TO HELP OTHER NATIONS, HE IS INITIATIVE, AND HIS CHARACTER IS RESISTANT.
                It is not enough to be born Russian, they need to become the Spirit and have the qualities of Russian, and you cannot connect two words without rudeness.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Ossetian.
                Ossetian. 23 September 2013 17: 17 New
                0
                I am a Russian (1)

                Call it what you want .....
                And I will say this: GLORY TO RUSSIA AND ALL THE PEOPLES POPULATING HER !!!
                AND GIVE GOD OUR COUNTRY - CONSENT, LOVE, MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING, MUTUAL RESPECT AND BROTHER'S LOVE.
            2. I am a Russian
              I am a Russian 23 September 2013 21: 27 New
              -2
              would be an Ossetian - would answer differently

              Dressed you up!
  11. avt
    avt 19 September 2013 14: 35 New
    13
    Quote: xan
    I hope it’s not a secret for you that Caucasians in Russia, to put it mildly, do not like it.

    They do not like thugs who, judging from Moscow, "assert themselves" here, or, like grown-up children of the Chechen war, take, again, as they think, "revenge", but exactly until they get a rebuff. Then all the "prowess" disappears and moans remain about oppression on the basis of origin. Well, and the clumsy action of corrupt government officials naturally only heats up the negative, even when it could have been cleverly removed.
    1. xan
      xan 19 September 2013 21: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: avt
      They dislike thugs who, judging from Moscow, here “assert themselves”, or, like grown-up children of the Chechen war, take, again, as they think, “revenge”, but they do not receive a rebuff exactly until that moment.

      I understand that different people live in the Caucasus, including those who are killed for opposing evil, an example is the case of the mayor of Makhachkala. But in my young life I often rested in Sochi and Adler, I was familiar with the girls from Maykop and Vladikavkaz. Both hate Caucasians organically.
    2. Lissa
      Lissa 20 September 2013 02: 40 New
      -3
      Yes, there are uneducated and illiterate people among Chechens. Sad and ashamed of them. Sometimes I observe the inability to behave in a secular society. No behavior patterns. There was neither the opportunity nor the need to develop them. It was not before that.

      Revenge? I see the situation differently.

      My favorite question is "why?" This is partly why psychology and social psychology are my hobbies. I always try to put myself in the place of the person whose motives of behavior I want to understand. Someone even said, "To understand is to forgive."

      Try to put yourself in the shoes of a child who has never seen his mother, since on his birthday the Earth-Earth rocket "landed" in the hospital. Put yourself in the shoes of a child whose father was torn to pieces in front of him in the yard. The child who lost his beloved sister, who stepped on a mine while sweeping in the front garden. I can list endlessly. Just think for a couple of minutes about what should be happening in the soul of such people; what their train of thought might be; what should be the attitude towards Russians, whom until now (before arriving in any large city) they had to see only in uniform and with weapons. The psychological stress is not easy. "I know how I feel about people in shape and how to treat them. But how to treat others, not in shape?" They have no patterns of behavior in such situations. They probably have no friends among other nationalities. In Chechnya, in general, almost 100% of the population are Chechens. "Multiculturalism? No, you haven't." And this is not only their fault, but the entire political system of Russia, which is very sad. And now, finding themselves outside Chechnya, among the Russians, they transfer their attitude towards people in uniform to others who have nothing to do with the former and all because they had practically no contact with others (!!! I am talking about the minority who and causes the most outrage. The "normal" majority is usually ignored - that's the way we are, humans). There was a war. Then the end of the war. Then "Smile and wave," as if nothing serious had happened. And then everyone is indignant at the behavior of the Chechens.

      And how would you, the person reading this comment, behave? Anything, but not so? Social psychologists shake their heads disapprovingly.

      I'm a war-raised pacifist. I believe that the less we know each other and about each other, the wider the gap of misunderstanding between our peoples. The easier it is to be guided by prejudices and stereotypes. The easier it is to blame the opposite side for all troubles and consider yourself an angel, a victim. I believe that nothing is being done at the political level to unite the country, to maintain intercultural dialogue. And I personally feel sorry for that. I believe that aggression and hatred of "others" often hides self-doubt (social psychologists assent to me), and sometimes even fear (no idea what social psychologists are doing here). And if politicians are not going to do anything to unite Russia, the people themselves must do it. And I'm sure you can find people from both sides who want this.
      1. smile
        smile 20 September 2013 14: 01 New
        +2
        Lissa
        You wrote very nicely and wrote a lot .... but excuse me, everything you wrote is utopian good wishes or strange conclusions that there are no Russians left in Chechnya due to the fault of the Power. Well, it is not their fault that the Chechens destroyed or expelled the Russian-speaking population ... do you think this was all done by aliens and not "ordinary" Chechens? Have you ever tried to preach among innocent Chechens?
        And please share your vision of what bad power must do to ensure that Chechens lose Russophobia ... the point of view of a pacifist who grew up in the war who is interested in sociopsychology would be extremely curious
        By the way, usually the most consistent and conscious pacifists are people in uniform. :)))
        1. Lissa
          Lissa 20 September 2013 16: 25 New
          0
          No, these are not utopian ideas or wishes. This is politics, smart politics. Of course, this requires desire and skill.

          You are talking about the exiled Russians, but do not think about the hundreds of thousands of Chechens who died during the war.

          Sorry, Vladimir. But I see no reason to continue the conversation with you. In addition, after half an hour I have a meeting with a friend, with Sasha. ;)

          Get out of the network and start to find out real people about whom you read all kinds of horror stories and you will be surprised how little they have in common.
          1. smile
            smile 20 September 2013 18: 04 New
            +4
            Lissa
            Sweet girl ... I can in no way impose my company on you, let alone interfere with a meeting with my friend ... with Sasha .... :)))
            Indeed, there’s no point in talking to you — you deftly shy away from it. to express something and play with words and tales scribbled from the Internet ... it is regrettable that your inquisitive mind, having lost its intelligibility, began to consume the most base food ... here. apparently ill ...
            Nonetheless. I want to give your mind a chance to save face and even be ashamed ... :))) I don’t know what kind of war you were made into a pacifist (but curious :) :)))) but I know the situation in Chechnya not via the Internet ... when I recognized her there, I didn’t have tyrnet yet :)) you probably too ... :))) So, I saw with my own eyes enough to assert that intentional destruction, and not just expulsion and the robbery of the Russian-speaking population of Chechnya is true, the deliberate destruction of hundreds of thousands of Chechens is a blatant lie, invented, by the way, by those who have their hands to the elbow in the blood of defenseless Russian children and women ..... forgive me because of infantility, understand this it’s difficult, because your experience is based solely on little black letters that you find in tyrnet ..... and as for the inside look, I’m half Chechen myself :)))) so that it’s not for you to teach me, it's really funny looks:))) ... still have questions? ... :)))
            It was especially touching that you mentioned your friend Sasha .. :))) what is the name of this technique in rhetoric, remember? :)))
          2. Lissa
            Lissa 20 September 2013 21: 46 New
            +1
            Your manner of communication is mainly aimed at ridiculing the person you are talking to. I am sorry to disappoint you, but there is nothing original in your statements and they only make me a sweet smile (yes, I also smile sweetly;)).

            Yes, Vladimir, you are right, there were no casualties among the Chechen population during the two wars. I'm glad you opened my eyes.

            Accept my regrets about being half Chechen. I’m almost sure that it only complicated your life .. at least until the moment when you decided to hate all Chechens for yourself.

            I sincerely wish you all the best.
          3. smile
            smile 21 September 2013 02: 05 New
            +3
            Lissa
            Good evening.
            I'm really glad to read your undoubtedly sweet smile ... :)))
            And I’m terribly upset that you, madam, did not find anything original in my statements ... how am I ... maybe it was worth something to come up with for your smile, do you think it was worth it?

            Yes, dear Lissa, I am grateful that you understood my idea that there is a difference between the cold-blooded cutting out of old people and children, gambling rape and subsequent release of guts, and even more gambling robbery by representatives of the common people, who sometimes have the habit of seizing maternity hospitals and schools and killing women in labor and children and a crazy shell that flew in for destruction. eg. fireman point of peaceful demonstrators. ... I am very grateful to you - probably your smile is worth it ... thanks ...

            I accepted your regrets about my nationality. but with regret I inform. that it didn’t affect my life in any way .. just like ... I hope so. Does your sweet smile not fade? :)))
            Thanks to your pure heart, my no less pure one really wishes you to consistently protect the interests of bandits and murderers who are offended by the food and circumstances. as well as their followers ... because apart from your smile, nothing will save them ...
            And last ... ma'am, I have no purpose to ridicule anyone. but if some people are too impudent and obviously lying, is it really a sin to laugh at them? What else to do with them? Beat? So I'm a very kind person and raising a hand to any scum is uncomfortable for me ... and disgusting ... :)))
            As for that. that you felt sorry for me ... I’m shocked ... in some stupid books (and what other books, besides stupid ones, can be read by someone like me) it is said. that female pity is reinforced by some specific actions ... I hope you have not reached this point? :)))

            You are not a Chechen woman ... not even a Europeanized one, you are absolutely not a Chechen woman and you have not lived long enough in Chechen society .... smile, mademoiselle, please do something wider .... :)))
            Hi wasabi :)))
          4. Lissa
            Lissa 21 September 2013 02: 37 New
            +1
            What do you achieve by endless repetition of the Russian genocide in Chechnya? Am I saying that this was not? I condemn such actions. But I can’t change anything in the past. I am very sorry that this all had a place to be.

            Remember the words of Jack Sparrow: "Repeat this to yourself more often"? The fact that his father is a Chechen cannot help but influence someone’s life. Or this "no way" is the very influence.


            And at the very end of your message, I really laughed heartily laughing It seems that you are now experiencing cognitive dissonance, since your idea of ​​Chechens does not provide for the presence of such personalities as me. So know, such ones also exist. Breathe deeper. This is just a little shock. A couple more deep sighs and you will feel better. ;)
          5. smile
            smile 21 September 2013 03: 10 New
            +1
            Lissa
            I am surprised that you answered ... :)))
            What am I doing? In order for you to admit that the good Chechens carried out the genocide of the Russian population, and we answered this very humanely. some believe that it is too humane ... that it is not our fault and not the fault of the Russian authorities that the Czechs went mad and lost their human appearance ... and as a result, we have very concrete reasons for a cautious attitude towards some Caucasians, and we we are still very tolerant of them ... and some of them do not understand and do not appreciate it ...
            By the way, I kept within the framework and cited few facts, I myself do not want to incite ethnic hatred ... :)))
            To be honest, I did not remember Jack Sparrow's words ... :))) I watched one and a half films of "Pirates" - I liked the first one, then I didn’t, I was tired and did not impress ... so sorry .... Speaking of my life was not influenced by nationality, I meant that it did not complicate it in any way ... is that clearer? :)))
            I certainly didn’t laugh, but the mention of "cognitive dissonance" also smiled at me, quite often this expression is applied to the place and not to the place ... too hackneyed expression ... :))) you shouldn’t think that I am experiencing any- or significant emotions, communicating with you, therefore, I can not exhale? :)))
            I repeat, you are not a Chechen ... I'm sorry if I offended you. :))) Yes, and I don’t see anything wrong with this ... especially since you have never claimed that you are a Chechen .... :))) Do not worry, nobody will think worse of you, and random polemics about this unfortunate event will not remind you of anything ... :))) it does not matter, does it?
            I hope you do not forget to give me your sweet smile? Do not be greedy? :)))
          6. Lissa
            Lissa 21 September 2013 03: 42 New
            +1
            What am I doing? That you recognized that the good Chechens carried out the genocide of the Russian population, and we answered this very humanely. some believe that it’s too humane ... that it’s not our fault and not the fault of the Russian authorities in that the Czechs became furious and lost their human appearance.


            And if I do not recognize this, then ...?

            but the mention of "cognitive dissonance" smiled at me too


            Aronson writes well on this subject in one of his books. Recommend.

            I repeat, you are not a Chechen ... sorry


            You have repeated this at least 3 times. Want to achieve a 25 frame effect?
  • avt
    avt 20 September 2013 17: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: smile
    You wrote very nicely and wrote a lot .... but excuse me, everything you wrote is utopian good wishes or strange conclusions that there are no Russians left in Chechnya due to the fault of the Power. Well, it is not their fault that the Chechens destroyed or expelled the Russian-speaking population ... do you think this was all done by aliens and not "ordinary" Chechens? Have you ever tried to preach among innocent Chechens?

    Quote: Lissa
    Sorry, Vladimir. But I see no reason to continue the conversation with you. In addition, after half an hour I have a meeting with a friend, with Sasha. ;)

    Get out of the network and start to find out real people about whom you read all kinds of horror stories and you will be surprised how little they have in common.
    He said from the internet.
    laughing laughing This is humanly! And for me, it’s better to be an open enemy than such a “pacifist.” It hurts through the “laboratory studies” of such sociopsychologists that a lot of blood is shed. In general, various psychologists, psychotherapists, psychics have always aroused great suspicion. All these herds are, at best, half-trained psychiatrists, but mostly magnetizers - charlatans from paid courses.
    1. smile
      smile 20 September 2013 17: 48 New
      +1
      avt
      Yeah. really, the enemy is better ... :)))
      And as for psychologists and psychiatrists, they also have such a concept - a client request ... :))) means that an abnormally significant people who have problems with this matter seek to get such an education ... :)))
    2. avt
      avt 20 September 2013 17: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: smile
      And about psychologists and psychiatrists, they also have such a concept - a client request ...

      I remembered a funny incident. In the humpbacked times, the former policeman Toropov said that he Christ and in Moscow gathered adherents, then took them to Siberia. So then he had a psychiatrist on the gangway and here is a psychologist - psychoterapaut, well, the very beginning of their "profession" we were and exactly the film crew was spinning - they were taking an interview. The psychologist also turned on the dull one, a kind of scientific, then they asked the psychiatrist. He shrugged his shoulders - "Yes, in our hospital for a month and a half, Christ always has, normally, not violent." laughing But “Vissarion” specifically put people on the huts in Moscow.
    3. smile
      smile 20 September 2013 20: 06 New
      +1
      avt
      Yes, I heard ... by the way, I noticed a strange thing-psychos (real, recognized legally incompetent) often show enviable organizational and commercial abilities ... and they clearly realize that they are psychos and are not jurisdictional and have a little bliss, I have help! !! :)))
      And the girl Lissa terribly reminded me of another pacifist ... remember the tvarynu Kavalyov Seryozha? ... that would be to whose throat to get .... how much blood is on this pacifist .....
      And yet, this girl is in the manner of conversation, terminology. verbal conversations scaredly reminded the girl Wasabi, whom Alexander Romanov suspected that she was not a girl at all ... :))) I was tormented by vague doubts ... :))) And that she is not a Chechen, I am convinced they they say differently ... completely.
    4. avt
      avt 20 September 2013 22: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: smile
      . Remember tavarynu Kavaleva Seryozha? ...

      Nuu !! Who doesn't remember him! Especially when he organized the exhibition "Beware of Religion" in Moscow in the Sakharov Center. The guys, parishioners of the Church of St. Nicholas the Saint in Pyzhi, gave it a bit laughing , so he later squealed - "you are Orthodox, where is your humility, love"
  • Lissa
    Lissa 20 September 2013 21: 51 New
    +1
    @smile
    "And they will cure me, and they will cure you" drinks
  • Lissa
    Lissa 20 September 2013 21: 50 New
    +3
    @avt
    Well said! Pretty boy! )))
  • Ossetian.
    Ossetian. 20 September 2013 10: 18 New
    0
    Good day Marshal soldier
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 12: 48 New
    13
    YunusBek Evkurov once said about the Lezgi in Moscow, where is GOPAK in Nazran? On whose arba you go, you sing those songs. But you don’t clap your asses in the streets of your own house? It is necessary to respect people, especially when you are visiting. It is such Caucasians who deserve respect. And about Yermolov- Personally, I think that the policy of reciprocal hostage-taking is the right thing, although the current legislation does not fit.
    1. George
      George 19 September 2013 15: 05 New
      +5
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Personally, I think that the policy of retaliatory hostage taking is the right thing, although the current legislation does not fit.

      Fits in, still fits in. Daniil Koretsky, a police colonel, substantiated the legitimacy of this method in his book "The Time of the Innocent". That is, it is possible to cause harm to a third party in order to prevent danger to .. etc. You can find his book and read it. Everything is competent, accessible, and most importantly legally justified.
    2. Ossetian.
      Ossetian. 19 September 2013 15: 08 New
      +1
      I agree.
      But why away?
      Now, if you come to us in Vladikavkaz, then I would not want you to feel like visiting. I sincerely speak.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 15: 32 New
        +7
        Quote: Ossetian.
        But why away?
        Now, if you come to us in Vladikavkaz

        I agree with Vladikavkaz, even with difficulty. But the Caucasus is bigger, Makhachkala and Nalchik are there, but it’s better not to recall Grozny at all. It’s unlikely that they will even accept me as a guest there now, but in general I think that when you come to any other city you are already at a party. This is a personal opinion
        1. Ossetian.
          Ossetian. 19 September 2013 15: 39 New
          +6
          Agree drinks
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 15: 46 New
            +5
            Quote: Ossetian.
            Agree drinks

            We agreed, I will add Vladikavkaz to the list of options for the next vacation.
            1. Ossetian.
              Ossetian. 19 September 2013 15: 55 New
              +4
              This is another conversation.
              Glad from the bottom of my heart ... as they say friendship of peoples - the foundation of the country good
  • smile
    smile 19 September 2013 15: 10 New
    10
    Ossetian
    Hello. You, of course, are quite correct and exhaustive. In my opinion, they answered. but I would like to insert my 5 kopecks, please keep in mind when we gurgle in the Caucasus, we gurgle only on those who behave badly against Russians, so to speak. There are much more normal Caucasians, but, unfortunately, there are significant their parts cannot be called aggressive or provocative. And these actions are more visible. And the fact that your compatriots are often in no hurry to put their thugs in their place, and our authorities, in order to avoid aggravation of the situation, do not react adequately only aggravates the situation .... this is what causes the RESPONSE of the Russians .... and, unfortunately, gives a breeding ground for our extremist scumbags ... which, fortunately, are so far an operetnaya army, which the Russians themselves have both in the tail and in the mane .... but if the Caucasians would pull off their Natsik, then our Natsiks, perhaps and would not have arisen. Therefore, please do not cling to the words-you are a smart person and understand everything ...
    1. Ossetian.
      Ossetian. 19 September 2013 15: 20 New
      +8
      Good afternoon!
      Unfortunately you are right.
      I just want to say that when speaking about the Caucasus, we don’t need everyone to fit in one comb.
      1. smile
        smile 19 September 2013 16: 25 New
        +8
        Ossetian
        So under one comb, you are far-fetched or just in the heat of the moment. You understand. :))) I'm half vineah. To my father’s relatives (my mother broke up with him when I was 3), at the insistence of my mother, I visited only once - in the 90th year it seems ... the older generation accepted me with joy, but the younger one ... they even called me some special term (I don’t remember, I don’t know the language) the meaning is something like a traitor — well, they raised me Russian-Soviet, and they took me Russian :))) they talked merrily ... :)) The result, early in the morning before dawn, my grandfather gathered me and put on a typewriter some kind of relative, so that I could get to Dagestan, leave, he says, I'm already old, I can’t protect ... avoid our police ... and I went ... with a through hole in the upper third of the thigh under the ass way out :))) ... really matured this week :))) I still remember how he cried and looked after me ...
        And in Russia, I have never heard anything bad about me. My appearance is Slavic, but the surname was in every regional department .. :)))) Colleagues sometimes pestered me when drunk, and let us hand you over, a reward in half? I even saw a captured video cassette with a liquidated comrade, I don’t know, a relative or a namesake cassette looked all the way up to the holes and came to the conclusion that I won’t go down for this mugty one, there won’t be any money :))
        All. So this is ... no need to be indignant. all the more so because we have more reasons for friendship with Ossetians than for hostility :)))
        1. Ossetian.
          Ossetian. 19 September 2013 16: 36 New
          +2
          And it’s funny and sad. request
          1. smile
            smile 19 September 2013 19: 24 New
            +2
            Ossetian.
            Excuse me, but funny, there is nothing ... one sadness ...
        2. Rider
          Rider 19 September 2013 16: 51 New
          +3
          Quote: smile
          but the surname hung in every district department.


          is the name of the namesake of the third imam?

          smile
          1. smile
            smile 19 September 2013 19: 30 New
            +1
            Rider
            Though kill, I don’t know who the imam is, but the son of the brother of the father of the mother of the sister of madness is closer:))))) ... fucking, darago, damn it, hutel bi will say, said bi, don’t feed, and ? :)))
  • Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 19 September 2013 10: 44 New
    +4
    For the most impressionable, you need to create a website, let them throw it on, and the eye begins to twitch at VO, how easy it is to feed everyone ..... be careful comrades. hi
  • Vadim2013
    Vadim2013 19 September 2013 10: 54 New
    13
    Very competently from a military and diplomatic point of view, General A.P. Ermolov acted. Flattering the Highlanders with gifts, money, in exchange for security is useless. The fight against the usual business and source of highlanders' income: raids on neighbors, robbery - can only be punitive actions. Putin’s policy (the direction of large cash flows to Chechnya) cannot give a positive result for Russia. This is perceived by the Chechens as Russia's weakness. The Chechens, in their mentality, respect only power.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Ossetian.
    Ossetian. 19 September 2013 11: 04 New
    14
    Such personalities as Ermolov are needed not only for the sake of putting things in order in the Caucasus, but for the sake of putting things in order throughout Russia as a whole, without exception !!!
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 19 September 2013 14: 45 New
      +3
      Here I agree completely.
  • Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 19 September 2013 11: 19 New
    +3
    Quote: Vadim2013
    This is perceived by the Chechens as Russia's weakness. The Chechens, in their mentality, respect only power.

    Greetings. I agree, but how much will our state spend if it is different, if we create conditions for a normal life and development, the Caucasus cleans this trash on its own (if you noticed the terrorists, the corpses of the leaders) a day later or you want our salaries to start again with our dollars give friends!? .... and then all this evil spirits to drive in the mountains for another 10 years?
  • avt
    avt 19 September 2013 11: 24 New
    +8
    Quote: Ossetian.
    Such personalities as Ermolov are needed not only for the sake of putting things in order in the Caucasus, but for the sake of putting things in order throughout Russia as a whole, without exception !!!

    So he was removed from the army - they were afraid as a person, he then called himself consul in the Caucasus. So in St. Petersburg and decided - suddenly he will have something to school. And he with a real military army, which is not like the janissaries of St. Petersburg, ceremonial, could, if desired, split off the number. That is, according to this logic, he was retired as a "freethinker" and dismissed. Out of fear and envy, it’s painfully clever not only fought, but also equipped the Caucasus.
    1. Ossetian.
      Ossetian. 19 September 2013 11: 29 New
      +7
      I agree to all 100%.
      The most interesting thing is that throughout the history of Russia, life was only like life in those periods when power was concentrated in one hand and a hard whip was in those hands.
      1. smile
        smile 19 September 2013 15: 25 New
        +6
        Ossetian
        I do not agree at the root. Life was normal when there was a strong leader who cared for the welfare of the state and was engaged exclusively in this. Since we have almost always, the toughest whip was much shorter than in the most democratic state of the West ... I’m not talking about Persia or Turkey ... it’s Russia's humanism that strikes me — remember how many years we have not had the death penalty 18th century - where else was this? Recall that for the entire 19th century, about 2 thousand death sentences were passed, of which about a third are carried out ... in the end, remember the expression Russian revolt, senseless and merciless ... and the terrible Pugachev region, during which everything was executed ... about 300 nobles ... and dozens of rebels (of course, not counting those killed in the battle) ... even the fugitive soldiers taken prisoner were not condemned, but sent to serve. Where else was this, except if not ours? The British were on the verge of shock when they found out how many Decembrists were hanged (who, in theory, had to be shot through one), I don’t remember which of their diplomatic missions said that if this happened in Britain, they would have executed several thousand, and ALL involved would go to hard labor ....
        So, you don’t need to use unreasonable cliches, don’t do this, it diminishes the dignity of the peoples of Russia and, above all, the Russian ... you don’t want this, right? :)))
        1. Ossetian.
          Ossetian. 19 September 2013 15: 36 New
          +5
          Speaking of a hard whip, I had in mind the dictatorship of the law (a normal law that serves the good of the people and the country as a whole), because the absence of a dictatorship of the law creates corruption.
          At times, I am increasingly beginning to believe that we cannot or cannot live in a democratic country. Honestly, I am a supporter of tough, fair power.
          drinks
          1. smile
            smile 19 September 2013 16: 35 New
            +3
            Ossetian.
            The clarification is accepted. I agree and vote with my hands and feet! :))) And I believe that democracy is not the power of democrats, but the dictatorship of the laws you mentioned, and it is such a country where there are such laws and such a "dictatorship" that is democratic. And we do not know how to live in a country in which there is a mess and the power is either weak degenerates like Nikolashka, or decisive, cunning but limited ... I will not tell you who, who believe that the main thing is to get to power, and there you can go to country x. . to forget and do your favorite alcoholic leisure-type of Elbon. But calling it a democracy is a mistake.
            1. The comment was deleted.
  • Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 19 September 2013 13: 00 New
    +3
    "Yes, there were people in our time, not like the current tribe. Heroes are not you!"(c) Mikhail Yurievich Lermontov, Borodino

    For some reason, it was these lines that were recalled ... It is sad, but the current authorities will never put the person in control of the North Caucasus akin to Aleksey Petrovich. Why, think for yourself ...
    So the glorious pages of the complete and undivided conquest of the Caucasus remained only in the distant past. And the result of the two Chechen wars sent the "heroism" of Kadyrov Jr. and huge funds disappearing into the "black hole" called Chechnya ...
    So now our "tsar-father" is more necessary and more profitable than the Khloponins, and not the Ermolovs ...
    1. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 15: 39 New
      +4
      Chicot 1
      No need to simplify. Still, they found Evkurov, and this is a unique man. If this were put in the Czech Republic, it would be ideal. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out, but I hope you understand that the situation there is far from simple: I changed Kadyrov for someone else and everything is in openwork. In the time of the Republic of Ingushetia, men like Ermolov were needed only to break down the resistance and ward off highlanders insulted from abroad — then they agreed with them anyway — and paid them and provided benefits — and no less. than now, not a little less. And the tsar’s soaked with Russian blood was accepted by the tsar himself .... remember what was the fate of Shamil and his sons, one of whom, an officer of the Russian Army, subsequently took up the old again ... so that it is not necessary for our authorities, who already have one real jamb on another jamb - to take a slander - they clearly act in the tradition of the Caucasian policy of the Republic of Ingushetia ... unfortunately, not always choosing the right option for this policy .... well, no one even considers them ideal and the ultimate dream of the Russian people. :)))
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 19 September 2013 19: 40 New
        +3
        "Big seen in the distance, but better if still close"(c) Vladimir Vysotsky


        Quote: smile
        No need to simplify

        On the contrary, you simplify ...
        Quote: smile
        Still found Evkurov, and this is a unique man

        I will not say a bad word about Yevkurov. He is well done! .. But he is only the head of Ingushetia, and not the envoy to the North Caucasus Federal District. Moreover, he is unlikely to ever take this chair. At best, they will find exactly the same as Khloponin. At worst, this post will be given to Kadyrov Jr. Moreover, he has long been aiming at him ...
        Yes, and Yevkurov, it's still not Ermolov however ...
        Quote: smile
        If this were put in the Czech Republic, it would be ideal

        This will never happen ... Yes, and Ingushetia is no less a problem region ...
        Quote: smile
        In the time of the Republic of Ingushetia, men like Ermolov were needed only in order to break down the resistance and ward off the highlanders who were insulted from abroad from banditry

        But is this not enough? .. At this time, this is exactly what needs to be done. And as soon as possible ...
        Quote: smile
        And the feudal lords soiled with Russian blood were accepted by the tsar himself

        In the North Caucasus, the feudal system (with its own nuances!) Was formed only among the Kabardians ... And the Russian tsar really accepted the Kabardian princes. Ivan groznyj. When they came to ask him to accept Kabarda as part of Russia ...
        And the overwhelming majority of the North Caucasian peoples did not leave the period of clan-tribal and clan relations. So they had no feudal lords. This is not Central Asia for you ...
        Quote: smile
        remember the fate of Shamil and his sons

        I remember and know ... But what could Shamil do after his captivity? .. He (or the first son) was not put in charge of Dagestan ...
        Quote: smile
        Unfortunately, not always choosing the right option for this policy

        And especially now ...
        Quote: smile
        well, no one even considers them ideal and the ultimate dream of the Russian people

        There are no limits for dreams ... However, here we are talking about real affairs, and not engaged in fantasies on a given topic ...
        1. smile
          smile 19 September 2013 22: 49 New
          +2
          Chicot
          Well, a decent answer .. I like it ... and I don’t like to defend the current policy of the Russian Federation, I would have acted a little tougher .... much tougher ... and moreover. right away.
          Nevertheless ... I don’t know where Kadyrov is aiming, but I doubt very much that he will be given a chance to take possession of the entire North Caucasus ... for one simple reason, the Caucasus will explode, they are all almost the same for us here, it’s simply impossible. ...
          About the tribal system-accepted- and I agree-the degradation happened instantly and pull them out of this ... again we have to .... and the most reasonable of them understand this perfectly ... and they hope, otherwise, if we are there again have to fight, no one else will ask, but what should we do if the group gets a peacek ...
          but about the bad government .... we can’t talk about real affairs here for one simple reason, we don’t know them ... just for the sake of it ... we don’t know who. as. with whom and to what agreement ... we don’t know at all .... while the country’s power is balancing, trying not to set the Czech Republic on fire again, not to rock the Russian people for the same reason ... not everything succeeds. moreover, not only do they greyhound - there are enough interested people around (even marsh ones) who are trying to inflate any coals into a full-fledged fire ... it's a shame. that some of them are normal guys who are offended ... just offended .... I don’t know what they are thinking of achieving, but I doubt that they want a third Chechen ... well, yes. we even filled them in the first more than they did us (if we exclude what they had done with the Russians before the war), and in the second, even more so ... and what ... would anyone like this? Or cheaper?
          You know, negotiating even with r ... kami is probably cheaper than fighting with them, in any sense cheaper ... even if we stuff them an order of magnitude more than they do us .... well, stuff them further then what? Anyway, you have to negotiate and restore ... again .... and then why fight? Or do you think that Kadyrovskte gangsters can resist us? If earlier they couldn’t, then in the event of a new war they will be rolled out even faster than in the second war. If some of them think differently, the leadership of the republic understands this perfectly ... and does not want to change the mansion to a dugout dugout, in which sooner or later they will be buried ....
  • Docent1984
    Docent1984 19 September 2013 13: 03 New
    +1
    As Yermolov noted: downstream the Terek there lived Chechens, “the worst of the robbers attacking the line. Their society is very sparsely populated, but has increased tremendously in the past few years, because the villains of all other nations, leaving their land for any crimes, have been friendly. Here they found accomplices, immediately ready either to avenge them, or to participate in robberies, and they served them as faithful guides in lands they did not know themselves. Chechnya can rightly be called the nest of all the robbers ... "


    He also predicted that in 2008 the Georgians would go to war on the Ossetians ... He knew a lot and understood even more. What can I say, great husband ...
    1. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 15: 44 New
      +3
      Docent1984
      Very interesting .... but in more detail you can? I agree that Ermolov is a great man ... but the laurels of the forecaster did not interest him. Someone unscrupulous misled you. I did not minus, but ... :)))
  • PValery53
    PValery53 19 September 2013 13: 26 New
    +1
    In the days before A.P. Yermolov, the Russian government “cajoled” the Caucasian princes with money and gifts so that they preserve the appearance of peace ... - Now it is time to create conditions for the Caucasian princes to pay tribute to Russia, so that peace would be preserved on their land. Not otherwise.
    1. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 15: 56 New
      +3
      PValery53
      You're not right. Since the Russians are not capable of genocide, otherwise they would have ceased to be Russian, it will still have to be negotiated peacefully. And after the open armed resistance was suppressed. you need to provide an opportunity for their leaders to grow fat, so that there is something to lose, so that they understand that if they start rocking, life will cease to be pleasant, look at Aushev, who, being a close friend of Dudaev, still did not dare ... because he didn’t he wanted to change a comfortable life for anything ... by the way, where is he? I hope that over time, and in the Czech Republic, this will become possible, albeit a generation that does not know. how is it to live without war - will get used to a normal life, and then it will be possible to slowly put it in its place. This could and should have been done immediately after the fight. but the leadership of the country either passed ... about the outbreak, or simply could not ...
      A tribute from their citizens in Russia has never been taken. or do you want to recognize the independence of the Russian Caucasus? :)) We do not need tributes, let them, they live peacefully, no one needs more from them ... :))) By the way. from the Chechen Republic, the further you go, the greater the return to the budget goes ... for some reason, some do not want to notice ...
      1. Ossetian.
        Ossetian. 19 September 2013 16: 41 New
        +7
        I agree with you!

        “The Russian people are a great people. Russians are a good people. The Russian has a clear mind, as if he was born to help other nations. Great courage is inherent in the Russian people, especially in difficult times, in dangerous times. He is initiative. He has a persistent character. He is a dreamy people. He has a goal. Therefore, it is harder for him than for other nations. But you can rely on him in any trouble. "
        I.V. STALIN.
  • Ddhal
    Ddhal 19 September 2013 13: 36 New
    +3
    Great article about the Great Man. Many thanks to the author!
    We look forward to continuing.
    And the current leaders of the country should once again make an excursion into history in order to understand that these people understand only the language of power ..
    We give them money for restoration — they build monuments to outright bandits with our money. What other evidence is needed?
  • Luga
    Luga 19 September 2013 15: 59 New
    +5
    Thanks to the author for the article. People like Ermolov need to be remembered and honored. Master of politics of carrots and sticks, excellent commander and administrator.
    His tactics of building fortified points in key places with the subsequent settlement of these points by the Russian Orthodox population, in my opinion, is relevant today. It is necessary to populate the Caucasus with the Russian population and, if it is properly protected, in 10 - 15 years the Caucasus will no longer be a forge of criminal personnel and an eternal thorn in the body of Russia. Russian schools, Russian churches and Russian settlements with Russian people (respectively, with suffrage) will complete the good deed, for which Yermolov fought.
    I am very sorry that such a blessed land as the Caucasus has not been able to find peace for so long.
    Thanks to Ramzanchik, without him the article would not have taken place ;-)
    By the way, it would be high time to summon him to Moscow and offer him the "honorable and responsible" position of "the chief adviser to the president on the most important issues," with a permanent stay in the white stone. He started playing.
    1. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 19 September 2013 17: 26 New
      +5
      Quote: Luga
      People like Ermolov need to be remembered and honored.


      good +
  • Kubanets
    Kubanets 19 September 2013 16: 04 New
    +7
    I apologize to the respected members of the forum. But Yermolov, unlike Rtishchev, did not perceive the Zaporozhtsev’s ability to defend and develop the Kuban lands relying solely on line troops. His task was only to subjugate the rebellious Chechnya. And Chechnya and Dagestan were far from the whole Caucasus. The balanced policy of the central government, which changed governors, led to the end of the Caucasian war
    1. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 22: 57 New
      +2
      Kubanets
      And what are you apologizing for if you're right? In every word are right? We’re not sorry, there’s nothing to repent of, here! :)))
  • Admiral 013
    Admiral 013 19 September 2013 16: 27 New
    +2
    Yes, there were people at that time, not like the current tribe.
  • Sirs
    Sirs 19 September 2013 16: 37 New
    +3
    You give a city in the Caucasus in his honor.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 19 September 2013 16: 48 New
    +7
    In general, Chechens should pray for Yermolov, as well as for Stalin. By sternness and demonstration of the inevitability of punishment, he executed one, kept dozens of others from stupidity. The problem is that Chechens, like other small nations, with the exception of the most educated and quick-witted individuals, do not understand that Russians and other large nations with many years of statehood no longer live in communal terms and expect the authorities to solve security problems. Well, plus for a long time they do not operate with concepts like blood feud and responsibility of the whole clan or village. For some time, antics may go unpunished, but sooner or later patience will come to an end, and if the Russian population, which is many times larger than the other nations in numbers and in the hands of which is armed with army, at some point begins to simply wet the visitors from the Caucasus, then there will be no salvation. And it will be impossible to plant another Budanov, the authorities simply will not be able to maintain order and will have to either solve the problem according to Yermolovsky, or bring the hell out of it.
    1. Kubanets
      Kubanets 19 September 2013 17: 16 New
      +3
      You're right . After Ermolov, a dozen years later, the Zass gene became command of the Caucasian Line. This was worse for the Caucasian peoples than the invasion. He did not let down a single thieves raid on Russian soil, but on the contrary organized retaliatory reprisals.
      1. George
        George 19 September 2013 17: 55 New
        +3
        Quote: Kubanets
        You're right . After Ermolov, a dozen years later, the Zass gene became command of the Caucasian Line. This was worse for the Caucasian peoples than the invasion. He did not let down a single thieves raid on Russian soil, but on the contrary organized retaliatory reprisals.

        I know that General Zass was called the Circassian scarecrow, and the chain dog of the head of the Caucasian line, Gen. Velyaminov, but I’ll find out for the first time that Ermolov acted differently in response to the raids. Enlighten if it’s not difficult.
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 19 September 2013 20: 25 New
          +1
          Ermolov tried to civilize the local, Zass Circassians can be said to be exterminated. He went the easy way, but now there are no problems with the Circassians, due to their almost complete absence in the Russian Federation.
          1. smile
            smile 19 September 2013 23: 09 New
            -1
            Avenger711
            Nobody exterminated anyone. The tragedy of the Circassians, the only people whose number under the scepter of the Romanovs decreased, is that their princelings, who abandoned their people, at the instigation of the Turks, against the Russians, and having received a rebuff, decided to move under the Turkish wing ... where are they nah ... were not needed by anyone. The bargaining chip won back and went into the "battle" ... and the Turks arranged a merry life for them, or rather death, doomed a whole nation to extinction, they basically died out where the Turks allowed them to die -... pitiful remnants caught in Jordan .. ..not a question for us ... not for us at all ...
          2. Kubanets
            Kubanets 20 September 2013 00: 12 New
            0
            Well, that’s enough for you. Circassian peoples (Adyge Karachais Abkhazians) have a stable demography. On the issue of extermination of the natives it’s the Yankees. Our Ermolovs and Zassa (I apologize for frivolity) are real angels before the Yankees
            1. smile
              smile 20 September 2013 01: 28 New
              0
              Kubanets
              I didn’t have enough ... I just have the experience of communicating with our Turkic-counting colleagues - they like to talk about the Circassian problem ... :))) here I cut it off in advance ... :))) and thanks for clarification. :))) At the same time, take an interest - the Turks really killed almost a whole nation ....
              and if you haven't heard, ask who is inflating the "Circassian problem" now, and the underlying reason for this problem ... and I don't need to tell what the European and Turkic cannibals did, I myself like to tell about it ... here! :))) Wrong address, colleague. :)))
  • Hulk
    Hulk 19 September 2013 18: 22 New
    +6
    Quote: smile
    Normal Caucasians are much more

    Caucasians are different. In my opinion, Ossetians are one of the few that have not messed up. Correct if wrong.
    1. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 19: 56 New
      +3
      Hulk
      Of course, they are different ... but some common features are unambiguous .... regarding the Ossetians, it is advisable to ask a colleague under such a nickname is clearly a very reasonable and honest man.
      But there was still such a sad thing as the Ossetian-Ingush conflict, and ours got there too ... I don’t want to continue the topic, sorry.
  • repytw
    repytw 19 September 2013 19: 18 New
    +4
    In general, the Caucasus should pray in Russian; under Ermolov there was no Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Dagestan, Chechnya or other republics, there were some kind of small khanates, tsars who slaughtered each other. They taught the Caucasus to live in a civilized way, and they simply saved some (Georgians, Armenians, Ossetians) from destruction, and Persia and Turkey would have been cruelly treated with others, no one needs bandits and thieves.
    Only during the colonization, the Russians built schools, universities, libraries and hospitals, raised and learned the local elite, which then attached Russia, and could act like Americans and Indians, the leader Ahmad Kadyrov would run on a reservation now and tell how the last 500 Chechens live. I’m thinking, maybe it’s bad for Russians to be so kind.
    1. Rider
      Rider 19 September 2013 19: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: repytw
      Only during the colonization, the Russians built schools, universities, libraries and hospitals, raised and taught the local elite, which then attached Russia, and could act like Americans and Indians,


      so you are an empress? !!!
      Ah ah ah

      laughing
    2. smile
      smile 19 September 2013 20: 14 New
      +3
      repytw
      You are right in almost everything ... but in defense, or rather, an excuse. if possible, the mountaineers will say the following ... have you noticed that in all countries in any corner of the earth, mountaineers are always militant robbers? The fact is that, on the one hand, there are few resources there, you know, you can survive in the mountains, but live well .... on the other hand, it’s good to defend and hide there ..... :))) And since all Since people want not only to survive, but to live well, they only have to rob each other, or if their teeth have grown out of a plain neighbor ... well, imagine the mentality of those who have been doing this for centuries. if not for millennia .... such are the Basques and Gurkhs and Pashtuns and some Scottish tribes .... normally (without the usual robbery and the slave trade) these peoples began to live only when they were explained to them (with the help of an iron pointer, you know, such a gun guns put on) that stealing and trading slaves is not good and there are other ways for self-expression ....
      And far from all the elite of the Caucasians, taken as equals, betrayed us ... on the contrary, they betrayed a smaller part, they have no less brains than we have .... they just betrayed us better than honestly working for the general welfare. Yes, plus, since the time of perestroika, some forces have cultivated the image of a "hero of the winner of the Russians" ... some "children of the mountains are being led" - and this matter is aggravated by their national upbringing ... byad, in general, began in health, finished, for peace .... ))))
  • repytw
    repytw 19 September 2013 19: 52 New
    +5
    Quote: Rider
    so you are an empress? !!!
    Ah ah ah


    Yes, I am for a strong, large Russia, which is respected by friends and fears of enemies, and its citizens live in peace, prosperity and justice! If you call such people that way, then I sympathize with you that in Kazakhstan there are none and never will be !!!! crying
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 19 September 2013 20: 26 New
      +1
      Empire or death! There is no third.
    2. Rider
      Rider 19 September 2013 21: 47 New
      +2
      Quote: repytw
      If you call such people, then I sympathize with you


      I understand that you are unfamiliar with the word "irony" and / or "sarcasm"?
  • repytw
    repytw 19 September 2013 22: 01 New
    +1
    I understand that you are unfamiliar with the word "irony" and / or "sarcasm"? [/ quote]

    Sorry, but by the way you distorted the word, I thought that you also attributed to my comment, if you offended, sorry again. Teska, from me as a gift. + good
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 19 September 2013 23: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: Hulk
    Quote: smile
    Normal Caucasians are much more

    Caucasians are different. In my opinion, Ossetians are one of the few that have not messed up. Correct if wrong.

    I agree! The Caucasus in blood and shit betrayal smeared heavily and it will still be raked for a long time (and most likely will not .. they will put everything in the archive for many years ..)
  • piterkras
    piterkras 20 September 2013 06: 35 New
    -2
    If you want Ermolov, then expect totalitarianism like monarchy, communism, fascism, Islamic-religious fundamentalism, which would affect everyone. Everyone would dance to the same tune.
  • Ossetian.
    Ossetian. 20 September 2013 10: 27 New
    +2
    Quote: I am a Russian
    Quote: Ossetian.
    a couple of hundred or maybe a couple of thousand nationalists,


    it is clear that the bitch thinks badly. But leave the nationalists aside for now. There would be the same attitude of the siloviki towards Russians and blacks - there would not be so many Kakaz people in Moscow. Too many "get away with"



    The difference between me and you personally is that I, because of people like you, will never allow myself to be offensively expressed to the Russian people and any other people.
    I will tell you this: even if there are not thousands, but millions of nationalists like you, I will love my country and believe me, I will do much more for you than you. My love for the Motherland is based on spiritual and moral qualities because I am an Orthodox person ... and you are just a ball that is inflated with its own hatred (where you kick there and fly).
    And before you open your mouth, read books ... though, so as not to strain your brain, I’ll tell you: Ossetians are the most heroic people of Russia. (you can check this information in Internet resources).
    Hatred of other nations (and even more so of a nation that is an INTEGRAL part of Russia) in real life is a sign of dementia, and if it manifests itself in the internet, it is a sign of its complete absence (UMA).
    Nationalism always generates xenophobia and chauvinism since always relies on the idea of ​​the superiority of their nation over another, and this leads to discrimination against conflicts, the collapse of countries, for example, Ukrainian or Croatian national separatism - as a result of de facto there is neither Yugoslavia nor the USSR ... and Nazism is German nationalism, or even Pan-German, more precisely. ... nationalism is ruining and weakening Russia, it is splitting its society and its peoples breeding ethnic hatred and conflict.
    IN THE USSR, ALL NATIONS WERE FROM OTHER THAN EXCEPT A HANDLE OF SOMETHING WHICH IS AMONG ALL ALL NATIONS!
  • Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 20 September 2013 10: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: smile
    well, what’s next? Anyway, you have to negotiate and restore ... again .... and then why fight?

    I join hi
  • Lissa
    Lissa 20 September 2013 16: 12 New
    +2
    Quote: smile
    Lissa
    you think. that you didn’t read [b] enough [b] [/ b] for us to have warm feelings in return? :))


    I read and saw enough to understand that war makes cruel animals out of people; that innocent people suffer from it; that politicians profit from wars and they don’t give a damn about the lives of mere mortals (oil was pumped from Chechnya even at the height of hostilities). You don’t even imagine what terrible stories I heard or read in Chechen forums and how painful it is - just like reading that innocent Russian families were killed in Chechnya before the war. But I understand that, tearing old wounds, you cannot build a happy future. And if the older generation was not able to prevent conflict, the younger generation should try to do everything possible so that this does not happen again. For our own sake and for the sake of future generations.
    1. smile
      smile 20 September 2013 21: 50 New
      +1
      Lissa
      Yeah .... and you do not think. that war does nothing out of anyone, but only exposes the essence of man? Which. as you rightly noted, it is not as attractive as we would like ... not for nothing that we are at the top of the food chain ... :)))
      Yes. they pumped oil .... he himself destroyed the samovars (it wasn’t my duty :)))) and the freedom-loving nokhchis passionately sought to sell oil products to Russian infidels ... to cut the dough .... :)))
      You can't even imagine how many such terrible and even more false rumors my partial compatriots gave birth to right in front of me ... in front of my eyes ... and you simply cannot imagine how many even more terrible acts of "fighters for independence are hidden by Chechen comrades ... and our authorities, so that the people do not explode and take revenge ... even according to the captured materials of the "Chechen militia" for the period 94 years - before our arrival, 21-22 thousand murders were registered (I don't remember exactly) and the same number of missing people .. .THIS IS IN DUDAEVSKAYA CHECHNA! Can you imagine what they did there with the Russians? Can you imagine how many they did not register? I hope to explain how this is done, no need? family ... not at all from a stray shell, but from the thoughtful, unhurried actions of representatives of the Chechen people ... we became friends only because we saw the same thing .... And it was not innocent Russian families who were killed in Chechnya ... it was nast an outrageous genocide, seasoned with selfish motives, similar to which in the last century was only in relation to Soviet Jews and in Rwanda ...
      And no one agitates old wounds, the fact is that after destroying the Russian population at home, they began a creeping expansion to us ... if they admitted that they were guilty, then it is understandable that no one was bukht ... but they did not recognize and their scumbags are trying to behave like in a captured country, and their compatriots do not pull them off ... and the younger generation, thanks to the upbringing of the older one (and whose else?), is trying to do just that and not otherwise ... the question is what to do with them ? And who should do this ... and with the elders too. since upbringing is precisely their merit ..... And when we talk about this problem, we think about the future ... we don’t want to put them again ... to put them in place ... very ... we are pacifists ... . :)))
      You are not a Chechen, say, not like a Chechen ... you can say who you are by nationality, and, more importantly, when you left Chechnya ... because if you left at a young age, you can be a Europeanized Chechen. ..A European culture destroys the identity of any nation ... you yourself must understand, this is a huge difference- ... the abyss .... then you are much closer in mentality to the Russians. than to nokhcham ... :)))
      1. Lissa
        Lissa 20 September 2013 22: 17 New
        +2
        As for the Chechens who sought to cut down the dough, you did not tell me anything new. They for the loot agreed to store radioactive waste in different parts of the city, which is why there are simply a lot of cancer patients in Chechnya. Not only were chemical weapons used, but also these containers, which were under people’s nose. Is it possible to be a more unhappy people?

        Yes, it was the targeted destruction of the Russians in Chechnya. I learned about this relatively recently and was shocked myself.

        I am relatively recently in Europe and I am a Chechen. My life was never sugar and therefore, from early childhood, I thought about things that many children do not even guess about. Then another war. I have always had friends of different nationalities, which also influenced the formation of my worldview.
  • Lissa
    Lissa 20 September 2013 22: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: smile
    Lissa
    Yeah .... and you do not think. that war does nothing out of anyone, but only exposes the essence of man?


    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эксперимент_Милгрэма

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyYVXxJKmPA

    We often underestimate the effect of circumstances on people's behavior, but in vain.
  • sef-77
    sef-77 22 September 2013 02: 01 New
    0
    How Russia lacks a strong leader now! Putin in this regard is a complete zero ..... I hope he will soon be rewarded for all the meanness in relation to Russia ...
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 22 September 2013 02: 20 New
    +2
    Russia will grind everyone. The times of the USSR will no longer be (peace is the friendship of peoples) Asians invaded Russia will soon leave their source of income ... Russians will return to your territories that you don’t know how to use ... We’ll only clean your bays .. to give you work on the ground, and you’ll work not like in the USSR .. you will have to learn and treat your children .. like in the 18th ... Can't you live and develop on your own alas ...
  • Enzzo
    Enzzo 23 September 2013 23: 50 New
    +1
    Very interesting article! Can you recommend reading something from the literature on this topic?
  • d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 5 October 2013 21: 17 New
    0
    A very effective policy against hostile mountain tribes was conducted by I.V. Stalin in 1943.