Military Review

From Vikramadity to a promising Russian aircraft carrier

139
The implementation of one of the most ambitious projects of the Russian shipbuilding is coming to an end. A few weeks left before the transfer of the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya to the naval forces of India. The Russian industry is completing the latest system checks and tests. In accordance with the plans, in October the aircraft carrier will return to the Sevmash plant in Severodvinsk, where it will be prepared for the transition to a new duty station. Delivery of the ship to the customer is scheduled for November 15.




Thus, almost ten years have passed since the signing of the first agreements until the transfer of the ship to India. At the start of 2004, Moscow and New Delhi agreed on the transfer of the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov to the Indian Navy. The contract stipulated that the transfer of the ship would be preceded by a profound modernization with the installation of new equipment selected by the customer. In addition, the agreement established the equipment of the updated aircraft carrier aircraft of Russian origin. The cost of upgrading the ship in 2004 was estimated at 970 million US dollars. Another 530 million India had to pay for the 16 deck fighters MiG-29K. It was supposed to pass the ship to the customer in 2008 year.

At the end of 2007, it became known that preliminary estimates of the amount of work needed were wrong. Because of this, the Russian shipbuilders could not meet the deadlines and estimates. The corresponding negotiations began, as a result of which the delivery of the modernized aircraft carrier was transferred to 2012 year, and the project cost increased to 2,3 billion dollars.

However, even these deadlines were thwarted by the fault of the suppliers of certain materials and equipment. 17 September 2012 of the year when overclocked to the maximum possible speed, several power-plant boilers failed. As it soon turned out, the accident was caused by poor-quality chamotte bricks made in China, used as heat insulation of boilers. Asbestos was used for this in the original design, but the Indian side insisted on using bricks. Poor quality imported material led to the impossibility of continuing tests. To repair the power plant of the aircraft carrier took several months.

Fortunately, after the repair is completed, the tests go on schedule and without serious problems. For example, a few days ago, the United Aircraft Corporation reported that in the course of preparing the aircraft carrier for transfer to the customer, a series of flights of the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB fighters were carried out at night. According to the UAC press release, as part of the verification of the aircraft’s technical equipment, the aircraft took off and landed one at a time and in pairs at minimum intervals, in addition, takeoffs were carried out with full combat load. This series of night flights completes one of the preparation stages. aviation groups for the aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya". Further, Russian specialists will train Indian pilots, who in the near future will have to serve on an aircraft carrier and fly on MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB planes.

As you can see, the implementation of the Indian order was difficult, expensive and time consuming. One of the main reasons for this can be considered as an unacceptable state of the shipbuilding industry at the time of the start of the project. Prior to the work of a half decade of meager funding affected the capabilities of all the necessary enterprises. Production facilities were not modernized at the right time, and qualified specialists were forced to look for another job. Fortunately, the command of the Indian Navy chose the Russian aircraft carrier and signed the corresponding contract.

An important feature of the project of conversion of the aircraft-carrying cruiser “Admiral Gorshkov” into the aircraft carrier “Vikramaditya” is the measures taken by the Russian shipbuilding industry to fulfill the Indian order. Just a few years ago, the management of Sevmash and the United Shipbuilding Corporation complained about the lack of skilled workers. Years of downtime had a bad effect on the state of production capacity and the number of employees capable of performing the tasks. Solid amounts of funding from the Indian side helped to rectify the situation and restore industrial opportunities with regard to the construction or repair of aircraft carriers.

The second equally important aspect of the Vikramaditya project concerns deck fighters. The Indian order spurred work to modernize the existing MiG-29K project. As a result, the deck fighter is not only designed, but also built in a limited series. In the near future it is planned to begin assembling such aircraft for both the Indian Navy and the Russian Navy. In the near future, the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB will replace the Su-33 fighter jets currently in use, which are running out of resources.

Thus, the sale of the aircraft carrier of India and its deep modernization helped to restore the production potential of the Sevmash shipbuilding plant and several related enterprises, as well as bring the promising carrier-based fighter in two versions to mass production. From this may follow a simple conclusion that sums up the whole program. Russian shipbuilding can now again build aircraft carriers. Over the coming years, domestic enterprises will most likely not be able to build several such ships at the same time, but the experience, technology and capabilities necessary for the consistent implementation of the relevant plans are already available.

The ship "Vikramaditya" has actually become a "training ground" for testing technologies and restoring production potential. Unfortunately, it will not replenish the Russian Navy, but instead of a new ship, our shipbuilding has received the necessary funding and extensive experience. It is likely that the restored production and the experience gained will be used in the development and construction of promising Russian aircraft carriers. Such projects are only planned and are at the stage of discussion of the very need for an aircraft carrier. fleet.

However, in the future, when the design bureaus begin to create a project for new ships with an aviation group, they will begin to apply the techniques created and applied during the modernization of the aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy. As for the shipbuilding industry, it will also be able to use the technologies and know-how mastered during the work on Vikramaditya. As a result, the new aircraft carrier of the Indian Navy will become a kind godfather of promising Russian ships.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://itar-tass.com/
http://vz.ru/
http://odnako.org/
Author:
139 comments
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  1. vitek1233
    vitek1233 19 September 2013 08: 43 New
    0
    Forward and only forward!!!
    1. experienced
      experienced 19 September 2013 10: 56 New
      +1
      Bugaga, I can say with 95% accuracy that in this topic slogans will prevail in the comments wassat
      We have not yet been able to build a single full-fledged aircraft carrier and this is a fact. We have neither personnel nor equipment for the construction of aircraft carriers, and this is fact No. 2.
      Very doubtful "priority" equipping the Russian Navy with aircraft carriers and a very, very many other facts, such as the budget, etc., etc.
      But for the URYalkins, of course Forward and Forward !!!! GIVE !!!! wassat
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 19 September 2013 12: 54 New
        22
        But for the URYalkins, of course Forward and Forward !!!! GIVE !!!!




        For the design and subsequent construction of an aircraft carrier, we first need a national idea. It doesn’t. We need a balanced domestic policy. It doesn’t. For the construction of the aircraft carrier, we had to start training workers, craftsmen, engineers and shipbuilders five years ago. We had to start building a modern shipyard five years ago. equipped with modern equipment. Five years ago it was necessary to start designing a modern AWACS aircraft, anti-submarine aircraft, EW aircraft. The Navy GK admiral N.G. Kuznetsov said the tasks and the navy. The military-political leadership is not able to clearly and loudly explain the need even - Mistral-. About the aircraft carrier - silence. For effective use, 4 aircraft carriers are needed. Two on the KSF and two on the KTOF. But there is hardly any infrastructure to base the aircraft carriers, there is no one to equip the crews of aircraft carriers and security ships.
        1. VAF
          VAF 19 September 2013 13: 03 New
          12
          Quote: gunnerminer
          For the design and subsequent construction of an aircraft carrier, first of all, we need a national idea. It doesn’t. A balanced domestic policy is needed. It doesn’t.


          +++++! soldier
          1. bask
            bask 19 September 2013 17: 42 New
            +3
            Good evening Vaf.
            What kind of amerovsky deck aircraft on an airplane ...?

            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 19 September 2013 18: 01 New
              14
              Troll roughly, my friend, you need to be thinner! STE miracle Yudo is remembered in the "brilliant" film "Stealth" was filmed))) It was a good comedy - even though I don’t ruble in aviation, I laughed heartily)))
            2. Ivan Ural
              Ivan Ural 19 September 2013 18: 46 New
              +6
              Meanwhile, on the Death Star ...
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 19 September 2013 21: 24 New
                12
                Quote: Ivan Ural
                Meanwhile, on the Death Star ...
                In the distant 1993, Chernomyrdin and Kuchma came to decide the fate of the Varyag aircraft carrier (ship readiness 67%). To the question "What is needed to complete the construction of the ship?", ChSZ director Yuri Makarov replies with a phrase that can be considered famous - "The Soviet Union, the Central Committee, the State Planning Committee, the military-industrial complex and nine ministries." It seems that they heard what they wanted to hear, the fate of the Varyag seemed to have been decided, like the fate of most Soviet aircraft-carrying ships ... Meanwhile, from the very Far East, Communist China was watching very closely what was happening in 20 million "green" bought a ship from Ukraine, allegedly for an entertainment center, taking a package of documentation, together with factory specialists, and without the Soviet Union completed the aircraft carrier. Morality, the willing seeks opportunities, not the desire for reasons. We picked up capitalism from the trash heap, and China has a more progressive social system. The question is, when will a "multimedia" supercarrier be built in Russia, "having no analogues" in the world, and what can and should be really done to revive the great country and the fleet? In the photo "Varyag" going to the Far East.
          2. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 19 September 2013 17: 50 New
            +2
            hi
            To the point of genius, it’s just for the customer’s money to reanimate their own production, work out new constructive developments of the design and weapons and ... start their own constructive backlogs ....
        2. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 19 September 2013 14: 25 New
          +1
          hi
          To the point of genius, it’s just that in crisis years it is possible to reanimate our own production for the customer’s money, work out new constructive achievements of the design and weapons and ... proceed to our own constructive backlogs.
          Well done! good
          1. Professor
            Professor 19 September 2013 14: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: Apologet.Ru
            To the point of genius, it’s just that in crisis years it is possible to reanimate our own production for the customer’s money, work out new constructive achievements of the design and weapons and ... proceed to our own constructive backlogs.
            Well done!

            I don’t understand, am I dumb here alone? For the money that they received from the Indians, they lost their reputation. Already now it is visible how Indians began to purchase weapons in non-child quantities in the West. Enlighten me, what is genius here? fool
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 14: 43 New
              10
              Quote: Professor
              I don’t understand, am I dumb here alone?

              Notice your opponents did not say this. laughing
              Quote: Professor
              For the money that they received from the Indians, they lost their reputation

              For the money that we received from the Indians, we did not lose our reputation, but gained. And the Indians learned something, I hope, and first of all, that the avaricious pays twice. They could immediately order a normal modernization - but no, actually, they ordered and paid two.
              1. Professor
                Professor 19 September 2013 14: 49 New
                -2
                And there is. I’m not catching up only. Tell me pliz, because of all this saga with Gorshkov how many billions sailed to the West? And how much more will sail away? They survived until the Indians bought transporters from America.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 14: 51 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Professor
                  Tell me pliz, because of all this saga with Gorshkov how many billions sailed to the West?

                  0,00
                  Quote: Professor
                  They survived until the Indians bought transporters from America.

                  Because of Vikramaditya ?! Boo-ha-ha :))) Do you seriously believe that there were no other reasons? :)))
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 19 September 2013 14: 59 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Because of Vikramaditya ?! Boo-ha-ha :))) Do you seriously believe that there were no other reasons? :)))

                    Reputation is priceless. Acquired over decades and lost in an instant. That is exactly what happened with Gorshkov. Even I laid out a couple of articles about this, and what Indians wrote you better not to know. The urapatriots will die on the spot.

                    IMHO, it would be better if Russia did not contact this modernization. Lost more than gained.
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 15: 21 New
                      10
                      Quote: Professor
                      and what Indians wrote you better not know

                      I'm not too interested in what the Indians wrote. The Indians have their own journalists, we have our own, but neither one nor the other, sorry, they do not understand what they write. I am much more interested not in what the Indians write (I have a three-letter word written on my barn, and there is firewood, you know), but what the Indians DO. And the Indians order all new and new weapons from the Russian Federation. In 2007, when the Russian Federation raised the issue of revising prices for Vikramaditya, the Indians ordered from us the second three Talvar, about the supply of Su-30. In 2008, a year after the Gorshkov friction, a one and a half billion program for the licensed assembly of 40 Su-30s, etc. is being implemented.
                      We really have recently missed some serious Indian tenders, but our complacency and sloppiness are to blame for this. In time, you would allocate resources to Mig-35 and avionics to it - you look, there wouldn’t be any Rafales.
                      Quote: Professor
                      IMHO, it would be better if Russia did not contact this modernization. Lost more than gained.

                      Well, if you have somewhere in the article there is analytics about what you acquired in the Russian Federation and what you lost from the execution of the Vikramaditya contract - I will get acquainted with pleasure :))
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 19 September 2013 15: 32 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You would allocate resources for the Mig-35 and avionics in time, look at it, there wouldn’t be any Rafales.

                        Blessed is he who believes.
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 16: 02 New
                        12
                        Quote: Professor
                        Blessed is he who believes.

                        Strong who knows
                  2. ruslan207
                    ruslan207 19 September 2013 18: 11 New
                    +1
                    Actually, an aircraft carrier could have been left superfluous
                  3. rolik
                    rolik 19 September 2013 19: 20 New
                    11
                    Quote: Professor
                    and what Indians wrote you better not to know.

                    What the Hindus write in India is their sovereign business. And what their military is saying here is a completely different story. The Indian military appreciate the work of our guys at the highest level. And they already live in our house, almost on a permanent basis)))) After the delivery of Gorshkov, they talk about some new orders. Wait and see. It is not without reason that our "general" went to India as a member of the commission for military-technical cooperation, at the beginning of the year, together with Mostovich (Marine Integrated Systems). Several Indian submarines have already been repaired on Zvezdochka and they are going to continue this.
                    In the photo, Vice Admiral Kumar, head of the main department for the production and procurement of warships of the Joint Staff of the Ministry of Defense of India
                    And about your reputation, this is your expression absolutely true .... in relation to the mattresses and their most faithful allies (Israel, France, England)
              2. Geisenberg
                Geisenberg 19 September 2013 20: 58 New
                +3
                Quote: Professor
                And there is. I’m not catching up only. Tell me pliz, because of all this saga with Gorshkov how many billions sailed to the West? And how much more will sail away? They survived until the Indians bought transporters from America.


                But all the same, it’s impossible to earn any money. But please explain why the Israeli air defense for the Vikra is still not ready? They gave you a head start for two years and all the same ...

                Apparently only you do not catch up that the client is complex prone to defamation and scam. Yes ... list the countries that, following India, are ready to buy an aircraft carrier from us, if not difficult.
          2. rolik
            rolik 19 September 2013 19: 01 New
            17
            Quote: Professor
            I don’t understand, am I dumb here alone? For the money that they received from the Indians, they lost their reputation. Already now it is visible how Indians began to purchase weapons in non-child quantities in the West.

            We have not lost our reputation. But the Indians have lost the desire to climb with their "wise" advice in the work plan. In conversations with Hindu military men living in Severodvinsk and taking part in the work on Vikramaditya, many "flattering" comments about their engineers and high bosses were heard. Which, as a customer, were forced, in the literal sense, to put the Chinese guano on the boilers. I, personally, blame my previous management for this, I had to stick to the plan of work and use of materials. And so this Chinese rubbish was not even brought to us for testing, they just took it and put it on the direct order of the main one. For this, in the days of the USSR, Kolyma and a party card on the table. And now the only thing that has been done is removed from office. But the "Hare Krishnas" have a lesson to give advice with their thoughts in India.
            1. Professor
              Professor 19 September 2013 20: 16 New
              +3
              Quote: rolik
              Put the Chinese guano on the boilers.

              Hindus want Chinese? I’m going to smoke aside. fool
              1. rolik
                rolik 19 September 2013 23: 39 New
                +3
                Quote: Professor
                I’m going to smoke aside.

                Tabachek even good ??))))
                It’s incredible but true, there are such cases in life)))) When they told us that)))) there was a moment of silence)))) then a word was said about a small, white, fluffy animal)))) Well, in the end it turned out, how it turned out ((((Okay. at least now they have stopped crawling with their recommendations))))
                1. Professor
                  Professor 20 September 2013 08: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: rolik
                  When they told us that

                  And where to read about it? Well, I do not believe it. request
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 20 September 2013 10: 51 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    And where to read about it?
                    Transcript of a conversation about a bribe? There, after all, it probably could not have done without it ... lol
                    They wrote that this cladding was installed AT THE REQUIREMENT OF THE CUSTOMER.
                    Quote: Professor
                    Well, I do not believe it.

                    Your right. And what, in Israel, the transcripts of such transactions are openly available (by the "negotiating parties" themselves)? And where can you read something like that? belay
                  2. rolik
                    rolik 20 September 2013 13: 56 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    And where to read about it? Well, I do not believe

                    And I’m very interested to know about the exact number of nuclear weapons located in Israel, and their total capacity. Please give info)))) You MUST know this)))))
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 20 September 2013 16: 10 New
                      0
                      Quote: rolik
                      And I’m very interested to know about the exact number of nuclear weapons located in Israel, and their total capacity. Please give info)))) You MUST know this)))))

                      I have been in India for almost a year. I have not seen a single Chinese little thing (and indeed there are few imported). They hate the Chinese more than the packs, but here it is ...
                      Put the Chinese on the aircraft carrier at the request of the Idus.
                    2. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 21 September 2013 00: 30 New
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      They hate the Chinese more than the packs, but here it is ...
                      Put the Chinese on the aircraft carrier at the request of the Idus.

                      And it was decided in a referendum what exactly and whose to put? Or one bribe-taker with a stroke of a pen?
                    3. Professor
                      Professor 21 September 2013 08: 19 New
                      0
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      And it was decided in a referendum what exactly and whose to put? Or one bribe-taker with a stroke of a pen?

                      And a referendum is not necessary. Information will be leaked to the press, scandal and parliamentary investigation, and more so whoever made such a decision will never make any decisions.
      2. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 19 September 2013 20: 54 New
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        Enlighten me, what is genius here? fool


        We survived and thanks for that.
  2. little man
    little man 20 September 2013 11: 06 New
    0
    All right. But maybe enough already repeating tasks .. tasks ..
    Here are the tasks:
    Currently, the Navy has the following tasks:

    deterrence from the use of military force or the threat of its use against the Russian Federation;

    protection by military methods of the sovereignty of the Russian Federation, extending beyond its land territory to inland waters and the territorial sea, sovereign rights in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf, as well as freedom of the high sea;

    creation and maintenance of conditions for ensuring the safety of the RF maritime activities in the oceans;

    ensuring the naval presence of the Russian Federation in the oceans, the demonstration of the flag and military force, visits of ships and vessels of the Navy;

    ensuring participation in military, peacekeeping and humanitarian actions carried out by the world community that meet the interests of the Russian Federation.

    These are common tasks. Further goes in detail the tasks of peace and war.
    Details here (website of the Ministry of Defense):
    http://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/navy.htm
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 19 September 2013 15: 29 New
    +3
    Quote: seasoned
    Very doubtful "priority" equipping the Russian Navy with aircraft carriers and a very, very many other facts, such as the budget, etc., etc.


    I don’t argue with facts, I’ll just note that they are doubtful. But I agree with the sequence, and most importantly with expediency. In our opinion, such ships are simply unnecessary. Our country does not have colonial plans, and those plans which do not imply aggression against other countries. Purely my mission is to build multipurpose ships and submarines, and the more the better.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 September 2013 16: 05 New
      +2
      I don’t argue with facts, I’ll just note that they are doubtful. But I agree with the sequence, and most importantly with expediency. In our opinion, such ships are simply unnecessary. Our country does not have colonial plans, and those plans which do not imply aggression against other countries. Purely my mission is to build multipurpose ships and submarines, and the more the better.


      The military-political leadership of the Russian Federation, members of the Council of Federations, and members of the State Duma should publicly proclaim the need to build aircraft carriers. Due to various kinds of circumstances, they even avoid discussing such topics.
      1. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 19 September 2013 20: 53 New
        +5
        Quote: gunnerminer
        The military-political leadership of the Russian Federation, members of the Council of Federations, and members of the State Duma should publicly proclaim the need to build aircraft carriers. Due to various kinds of circumstances, they even avoid discussing such topics.


        No topic, no discussion. And most importantly, there is no money for expensive, but useless things. Apparently, people do not even think of building offensive weapons when nothing has been decided on the defensive.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 September 2013 21: 02 New
          0
          No topic, no discussion. And most importantly, there is no money for expensive, but useless things. Apparently, people do not even think of building offensive weapons when nothing has been decided on the defensive.


          + 100!
  • Nitup
    Nitup 19 September 2013 17: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: seasoned
    Bugaga, I can say with 95% accuracy that in this topic slogans will prevail in the comments wassat
    We have not yet been able to build a single full-fledged aircraft carrier and this is a fact. We have neither personnel nor equipment for the construction of aircraft carriers, and this is fact No. 2.
    Very doubtful "priority" equipping the Russian Navy with aircraft carriers and a very, very many other facts, such as the budget, etc., etc.
    But for the URYalkins, of course Forward and Forward !!!! GIVE !!!! wassat

    The Gramshkov remake program manager at Vikramaditya said in all seriousness that it was easier to build a new aircraft carrier
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 19 September 2013 18: 12 New
    0
    Quote: seasoned
    Bugaga, I can say with 95% accuracy that the slogans wassat will prevail in this topic in the comments
    We have not yet been able to build a single full-fledged aircraft carrier and this is a fact. We have neither personnel nor equipment for the construction of aircraft carriers, and this is fact No. 2.
    The "priority" of equipping the Russian Navy with aircraft carriers is very doubtful, and very, very many other facts, such as the budget, etc., etc.
    But for the URYalkins, of course Forward and Forward !!!! GIVE !!!!

    Exactly, I propose that the aircraft carrier of India not be surrendered, but left to itself.
  • jasper
    jasper 19 September 2013 18: 18 New
    -1
    how much patriotism and faith in the homeland hi
  • Strashila
    Strashila 19 September 2013 08: 45 New
    +9
    Before you start assembling furniture ... it’s best to practice helping friends.
  • UVB
    UVB 19 September 2013 08: 47 New
    30
    But in the photo is the Chinese "Liaoning" And this is "Vikramaditya".
  • Boot under the carpet
    Boot under the carpet 19 September 2013 08: 53 New
    0
    A good proof of this article will only be the construction of the first ever Russian aircraft carrier!
  • ben gun
    ben gun 19 September 2013 08: 55 New
    +9
    ".. Nevertheless, in the future, when the design bureaus begin to create a project for new ships with an aviation group, they will apply the developments created and applied during the modernization of the aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy."
    Somewhere information flashed several times that the pre-docking of an aircraft carrier is already underway. And already left the stage of conceptual work. I suppose that they are engaged in the coordination of the terms of reference (and at the same time the statement that we need aircraft carriers).
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 19 September 2013 08: 56 New
    +1
    To not work, as with a submarine.
    Burned under the pier, and somehow like that ...
  • Ivan79
    Ivan79 19 September 2013 09: 30 New
    +2
    The ship "Vikramaditya" has actually become a "training ground" for testing technologies and restoring production potential.

    Running in and applying new technologies for yourself, but for the money of others. Is it bad?
    1. Professor
      Professor 19 September 2013 09: 47 New
      +2
      Quote: Ivan79
      Running in and applying new technologies for yourself, but for the money of others. Is it bad?

      And what new technologies were there? Did you increase the deck and overhaul?
      1. UVB
        UVB 19 September 2013 09: 54 New
        +1
        And the air finishers alone are worth it. This is not counting all the rest of the equipment and systems.
        1. Professor
          Professor 19 September 2013 12: 41 New
          +4
          Quote: UVB
          And the air finishers alone are worth it. This is not counting all the rest of the equipment and systems.

          And what are they worth? They were designed back in the USSR. KB in Leningrad. The "rest" equipment and systems, again, have not advanced anything coordinating in the technology. Now, if nuclear power plants or catapults were installed ...

          Quote: gispanec
          and you forgive me how do you know what has been done there ??.

          I was in Tbilisi and Ulyanovsk ... and here are alterations!

          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          So there and with "superficial" facts, so much comes up that oh-wei ...

          laughing
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Firstly - a complete change of boilers in EU

          There is nothing new in this technology. On other ships the same. They could not even replace asbestos.

          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          the second - a springboard - seems to be nothing complicated, but I heard that this is a very tricky thing, both in design and manufacturing.

          This "tricky thing" has been worked out on both Thread and Kuza. Again, no new tech ... Copy-paste.

          The rest is also a copy-paste system 40 years ago. And for unrealistic money. Electronics and some weapons have been updated - a natural process.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 13: 08 New
            +5
            Quote: Professor
            This "tricky thing" has been worked out on both Thread and Kuza.

            THREAD where? Who built Kuzyu? Or do you think that experience, this is such a balloon, which cheeks puffed and rrraz - flew from Nikolaev to Sevmash? laughing
            Quote: Professor
            There is nothing new in this technology. On other ships the same. They could not even replace asbestos.

            Yeah, but you don’t know who the problems were with the boilers ... yes, and tell me please - on what kind of steamers under 40 thousand tons have we recently changed boilers? Appropriate Wikramadding power?
            1. Professor
              Professor 19 September 2013 14: 13 New
              +4
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              THREAD where? Who built Kuzyu? Or do you think that experience, this is such a balloon, which cheeks puffed and rrraz - flew from Nikolaev to Sevmash?

              I see you are simply not from this area. Kuzyu was designed (including a springboard) in Leningrad, where they developed the process and equipment. Give me all this documentation, and in Israel I will make such a springboard.

              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Yeah, but you don’t know who the problems were with the boilers ... yes, and tell me please - on what kind of steamers under 40 thousand tons have we recently changed boilers? Appropriate Wikramadding power?

              Were these boilers given to you? They have an efficiency of the last century. They were also designed in Leningrad. My current colleague used them to develop heat-resistant bricks. The task of the boilers is to burn fuel oil and heat water. By the way, the necessary turbines are made only in Nikolaev at "YuTZ". What about asbestos? Do not know?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 14: 49 New
                +4
                Quote: Professor
                I see you are simply not from this area. Kuzyu was designed (including a springboard) in Leningrad, where they developed the process and equipment. Give me all this documentation, and in Israel I will make such a springboard.

                You will do it only if there are people who are able to reproduce this very technological process on the equipment they have at their disposal. Sevmash did NOT BUILD aircraft-carrying cruisers. And here it was necessary to master - and technical processes and so on.
                The author of the article did not write anywhere that they say "Supernova innovations have been introduced at Vikramaditya, we are now ahead of the rest of the planet" The author just writes that due to the order for Vikramaditya, Russia was able to preserve an industry capable of creating aircraft carriers.
                Quote: Professor
                Were you given these boilers? They have the efficiency of the last century.

                YES at least the year before. If people who are able to make these boilers are preserved, they will be able to master with the efficiency of today's century.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 19 September 2013 14: 56 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  You will do it only if there are people who are able to reproduce this very technological process on the equipment they have at their disposal. Sevmash did NOT BUILD aircraft-carrying cruisers. And here it was necessary to master - and technical processes and so on.

                  You are not in the subject. Having documentation, the builders will build any building, this is elementary. This was taught in LCI and NCI.

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  The author of the article has not written anywhere

                  And I do not argue with the author, but with those who jump and rejoice that they saved / developed some kind of technology for the money of others.

                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  YES at least the year before. If people who are able to make these boilers are preserved, they will be able to master with the efficiency of today's century.

                  Is that how much% today? wink
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 15: 28 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Professor
                    You are not in the subject. Having documentation, the builders will build any building, this is elementary. This was taught in LCI and NCI.

                    YOU are not in the subject. In order for shipbuilders to build something there, shipbuilders are needed first of all. Which we now have. And which we would not have, had not been Vikramaditya. I understand, from Israel this may not be clear. Well, to me, the person who worked all his life in factories and industrial enterprises - this is obvious.
                    Quote: Professor
                    And I do not argue with the author, but with those who jump and rejoice that they saved / developed some kind of technology for the money of others.

                    INDUSTRY saved. And industrial production technology.
                    Just imagine such a picture - you wanted in your Israel to build the same boiler for an aircraft carrier. Everything is in your hands - drawings, documentation on technical processes and so on. You go with them to the factory, but there is no factory at all, there are workshops converted into tangerines warehouses. And people of Caucasian nationality sell these tangerines at the most reasonable price. And what, give them your project and wait for them to build boilers for you?
                    Quote: Professor
                    This is how much% today

                    I'm not a technician, I don't know
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 19 September 2013 15: 38 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      YOU are not in the subject. In order for shipbuilders to build something there, shipbuilders are needed first of all. Which we now have. And which we would not have, had not been Vikramaditya.

                      You are smiling at me. In your opinion, thanks to Gorshkov, we opened a couple of vocational schools, trained welders and assemblers, and in the LCI the competition went wild? Or Sevmash upgraded to the level of the French? None of this happened. Therefore, do not exaggerate the importance of this modernization for the shipbuilding industry in Russia.

                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      INDUSTRY saved.

                      I will cry. Thanks to one modernization, have they kept INDUSTRY? Do not joke like that anymore.

                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      I'm not a technician, I don't know

                      At least honestly. good
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 16: 06 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Professor
                        You smile me

                        Yes, I know :))) You just don’t understand what such a project means for the industry :) You think this is fie - seeds and not much at all.
                        You are simply far from production. And, apparently, they never faced resuscitation of industrial facilities after downtime.
                      2. ruslan207
                        ruslan207 19 September 2013 18: 17 New
                        0
                        Professor - yes, it’s sad that ships like Peter the Great, or at least Moscow in modern Russia, are beyond the power of
                      3. fzr1000
                        fzr1000 19 September 2013 19: 08 New
                        +5
                        A professor is a typical genius in everything, a specialist is nothing. The amateur is shorter. Very typical ...
                      4. Boa kaa
                        Boa kaa 19 September 2013 20: 39 New
                        +1
                        Quote: fzr1000
                        The amateur is shorter. Very typical ..

                        Sergei! Excuse me, I will add: a sophist, moreover, acting according to the scheme "one person of limited mental abilities can ask so many clever questions that 100 wise men will not answer." So he took a win-win position. In addition, only "kosher" information agencies are considered true information, the rest of the information that does not confirm his opinion is ducks! Like this: easy and simple!
                    2. Boa kaa
                      Boa kaa 19 September 2013 20: 25 New
                      +1
                      Quote: ruslan207
                      yes it’s sad that ships like Peter the Great, or at least Moscow in modern Russia, are beyond the power of

                      Ruslan, don't worry so much about your former homeland. We are capable of building ships with a displacement of up to 20 thousand. But there is a question of priority: Borei is now more important for the national security of the Russian Federation, and secondly, expediency: how regrettable it is for a sailor to realize, but apparently the age of "mostadonts" (a class of nuclear cruisers), just like the LK in its time, is suitable by the end. Fighting units of class EM with a displacement of 10-12 thousand tons come to the fore. Therefore, we are modernizing what was in reserve (sludge), but we will not build more giants. The Ocean Zone warship project is in the stage of elaboration of details. As well as the new AVU with nuclear power plant and E / M catapulia.
                    3. ruslan207
                      ruslan207 19 September 2013 23: 23 New
                      +1
                      I was not born in Russia and I have never been to Russia so you were mistaken
                    4. ruslan207
                      ruslan207 20 September 2013 08: 14 New
                      0
                      I do not think that these mastodons have gone down in history heavy weapons like PCRs like a volcano need big ships this ocean fleet which decides about the whole grouping
                    5. Boa kaa
                      Boa kaa 20 September 2013 16: 46 New
                      +1
                      Quote: ruslan207
                      heavy weapons like a volcano like a volcano need big ships this ocean fleet which decides about the whole grouping

                      I talked about the class of cruisers with a displacement of 15-20 thousand tons (heavy 25-30 thousand tons). They are most likely to be replaced by a universal combat ship (gaining supremacy at sea) with a displacement of 10-12, a maximum of 15 thousand tons. Air defense will be decided beyond the horizon - aviation, long-range missiles. From the horizon - lasers and EM guns with kinetic shells of previously unseen energies. They will solve the problem of missile defense. That's something like that in a first approximation.
                    6. ruslan207
                      ruslan207 20 September 2013 22: 36 New
                      0
                      in about 30 years, your laser guns may appear while it's fantastic there are no suitable samples of em guns
            2. rolik
              rolik 20 September 2013 00: 16 New
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              You are smiling at me. In your opinion, thanks to Gorshkov, we opened a couple of vocational schools, trained welders and assemblers, and in the LCI the competition went wild?

              Professor)))) On Sevmash there is OWN educational institution, it is called VTUZ (it was opened in 1965 as a branch of LCI). This educational institution just prepares professional personnel for Sevmash, and is located across the road, opposite)))) And you LCI - LCI)))))
            3. Professor
              Professor 20 September 2013 08: 32 New
              0
              Quote: rolik
              Sevmash has its own educational institution, it is called VTZ

              Firstly, not your own, but a branch of the same LCI, and secondly, it’s good that there is, albeit a weak one. good
            4. rolik
              rolik 20 September 2013 10: 26 New
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              x, it’s good that there is, albeit weak.

              Apparently, you did not study there))))
            5. Professor
              Professor 20 September 2013 16: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: rolik
              Apparently, you did not study there))))

              You are quick-witted. wink I broke through the number of monographs and publications ... Only Remez, Slizhevsky and Suslov from the NKI published more than this entire branch combined. There now, as in all universities, continuous management and marketing specialists are trained. sad
      2. rolik
        rolik 20 September 2013 15: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        Or Sevmash upgraded to the level of the French?

        And what, the French will be able to build a platform like Prirazlomnaya ???
      3. Professor
        Professor 20 September 2013 16: 30 New
        0
        Quote: rolik
        And what, the French will be able to build a platform like Prirazlomnaya ???

        the French can do anything
      4. rolik
        rolik 20 September 2013 19: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Professor
        the French can do anything

        laughing all .... further without words. This is from the same opera that everything is in Greece)))))))))))
      5. Professor
        Professor 21 September 2013 08: 13 New
        0
        Quote: rolik
        all .... further without words.

        It's true, no words. The second fleet in the world has been created and maintained at the proper level. Nuclear submarines, nuclear-powered aircraft carrier fleet and a bunch of other "little things".
  • M. Peter
    M. Peter 19 September 2013 17: 26 New
    +7
    Quote: Professor
    You are not in the subject. Having documentation, the builders will build any building, this is elementary. This was taught in LCI and NCI.

    Having one documentation does not collect much. We are talking primarily about installers, locksmiths, welders and others who climbed live on iron and did everything with their own handles, this experience is important, at our factory we also decided to do new electric locomotives with the Central Research Institute of Railways, so we he gave birth with a bold year, and after the second, third cars they just started off as if on a thumb. And it’s not necessary to tell that to any karabstroite builder to put the documentation from Kuzi and he’s bungled him for a quick time, he will crawl around him with cancer. Everything needs experience.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 17: 57 New
      +3
      In! Gold words! hi drinks
  • rolik
    rolik 20 September 2013 00: 04 New
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    Were you given these boilers? They have the efficiency of the last century. They were also designed in Leningrad. My current colleague developed heat-resistant bricks on them. The task of boilers is to burn fuel oil and warm water.

    Professor ah ah ah.
    KVG-3 (high-pressure gas-turbine boiler) on diesel fuel. The boilers are made at the Baltic Plant in St. Petersburg. The power plant has a capacity of 50 l / s.
    SOLAR - Professor SOLAR, not fuel oil)))))
    And how do you think a nuclear boiler works ???? He also heats up some water and produces steam that turns the turbines. Nothing new was invented either.
    1. Professor
      Professor 20 September 2013 08: 52 New
      0
      Quote: rolik
      SOLAR - Professor SOLAR, not fuel oil)))))

      Even worse for the Indians. But there really is nothing new
      Features of the device and operation of steam boilers ship KTEU
      1. rolik
        rolik 20 September 2013 10: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        Even worse for the Indians. But there really is nothing new

        And what is THERE to be new ???? )))) Fast neutron reactor? Super-plasmoid encased in beryllium steel and surrounded by dark matter ??? ))))) Or a deeply classified Israeli engine operating on the principle of black hole energy ???))))) belay
        You would have laid out a schematic diagram of the Steffenson steam engine, too, after all, nothing has changed globally since then))))))))) But I will not give drawings of Wickramadity boilers to you, firstly lowering, and secondly I just do not have it and get it, I'm not going to)))))
        1. Professor
          Professor 20 September 2013 16: 07 New
          0
          Quote: rolik
          And what is THERE to be new ???? )

          It was with that phrase of mine that our conversation began. hi
          1. rolik
            rolik 20 September 2013 19: 13 New
            0
            Quote: Professor
            It was with that phrase of mine that our conversation began.

            No, well, you wanted to see there something unusually new. Alas, the usual technology of earthlings)))) if you need a gravitap, then, perhaps, you need to Plyuk))))) At the same time, look at there transclusers, etsilopov, and pepelatsi))))
          2. Professor
            Professor 21 September 2013 08: 11 New
            0
            Quote: rolik
            No, well, you wanted to see there something unusually new.

            So you can bring any dialogue to the point of absurdity. Someone claimed that thanks to modernization, new technologies were developed ...
            And where are these new technologies?
  • rolik
    rolik 19 September 2013 23: 48 New
    +4
    Quote: Professor
    The rest is also a copy-paste system 40 years ago

    The professor is really not far from the truth. Nothing super-super-duper was complicated. But there is one big BUT, these works began after a hurricane defeat in the country. When professionals with a capital letter left Sevmash. This money helped a lot at the initial stage of recovery. This work was needed in order to REALLY feel their capabilities. Understand that we have not lost everything and squandered. Although then it seemed that just a little more, the plant would die and slide down to the manufacture of iron doors, furniture, boats and other small things.
    It is very important to understand that you can and are capable of doing work on the same level, before the collapse of the Union.
    But Prirazlomnaya, though not a military theme, really became the source of many new technical solutions.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 20 September 2013 00: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: rolik
      Although then it seemed that just a little more, the plant would die and slide down to the manufacture of iron doors, furniture, boats and other small things.
      It is very important to understand that you can and are capable of doing work on the same level, before the collapse of the Union.
      Yeah, what the plant didn’t do in those dashing years ... In the 91st, I saw a gorgeous submarine there, tiny, neat, like a toy. I took an interest. It turned out that someone from the Scandinavian wealthy ordered a pleasure submarine
  • gispanec
    gispanec 19 September 2013 11: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    And what new technologies were there? Did you increase the deck and overhaul?

    and you forgive me how do you know what was done there ?? ... except for superficial facts nothing more is known
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 11: 55 New
      +8
      So there and with "superficial" facts, so much comes up that oh-wei ...
      Firstly, a complete change of boilers at the power plant, and in fact they also had to be produced. The boilers are rather big, so you can't rivet on your knee :) Secondly, a springboard - it seems to be nothing complicated, but I heard that this is a very tricky thing, both in design and manufacture. Aerofinishers and landing system. The lifts were changed in different ways, the old ones could hardly lift the MiG-29. A big trick is the deck covering on AB, it seems that we even either bought or stole this secret back in Soviet times. On the Vikramaditya, it was necessary to produce this coating in every way - the nose of the TAVKR was not adapted for aircraft take-off, there were also missiles. Restraints at the start of the aircraft. How many things do we still not know?
  • afire
    afire 19 September 2013 12: 02 New
    0
    Quote: Professor

    And what new technologies were there? Did you increase the deck and overhaul?

    I just need to know everything! nifig's not your thing
  • ka5280
    ka5280 19 September 2013 13: 00 New
    +6
    Professor, here you are, albeit with the flag of Israel, but according to the points of view, the Baltic states are clean. Whatever they do in Russia, groan everything and cover up with dirt.
    For the Israeli Navy, under your leadership, how many ships were designed and built?
    1. Professor
      Professor 19 September 2013 13: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: ka5280
      Professor, here you are, albeit with the flag of Israel, but according to the points of view, the Baltic states are clean. Whatever they do in Russia, groan everything and cover up with dirt.

      Discuss my sinful nature? wink
      And how, how much and for how much this aircraft carrier was redone is known to everyone and there is no need for dirt.

      Quote: ka5280
      For the Israeli Navy, under your leadership, how many ships were designed and built?

      Found is called the great sea power of Israel. You’re at least compare with France, I’m generally silent about the United States. wassat
      1. ka5280
        ka5280 19 September 2013 15: 17 New
        +5
        I mean, that you are an expert on absolutely everything and everything. And tanks and aircraft and navy. Maybe they went to autonomy? Or so, they looked at the ship at the wall and from this draw conclusions? And with matriland or France there is no point in comparing with them there was no collapse and plunder of the country. Something like this.
        1. Professor
          Professor 19 September 2013 15: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: ka5280
          I mean, that you are an expert on absolutely everything and everything. And tanks and aircraft and navy. Maybe they went to autonomy? Or so, they looked at the ship at the wall and from this draw conclusions?

          What kind of expert am I? I paid the debt to my homeland and since then I have been reading and reading everything ...

          Quote: ka5280
          Or so, they looked at the ship at the wall and from this draw conclusions?

          Sometimes to draw conclusions it is enough to consider the performance characteristics.

          Quote: ka5280
          And with matraslendandom or France there is no point in comparing with them there was no collapse and plunder of the country

          "Devastation", as you know, is in the minds, and even as ten years have ended, petrodollars have poured like a river ...
          1. ka5280
            ka5280 19 September 2013 16: 36 New
            +3
            By the way, welders from the former USSR, Lithuanians, Latvians and Ukrainians work at the shipyard in Brest. But the French do not work, they do not have welders, not prestigious.
          2. rolik
            rolik 20 September 2013 15: 28 New
            0
            Quote: Professor
            What kind of expert am I? I paid the debt to my homeland and since then I have been reading and reading everything ...

            I apologize, of course, but to which Homeland ???? ))))
            1. Professor
              Professor 20 September 2013 16: 32 New
              0
              Quote: rolik
              I apologize, of course, but to which Homeland ???? ))))

              Will the Black Sea Fleet suit you? soldier
              1. rolik
                rolik 21 September 2013 00: 09 New
                0
                Quote: Professor
                Will the Black Sea Fleet suit you?

                And the Black Sea fleet of whom, Russia or Ukraine ?????
                1. Professor
                  Professor 21 September 2013 08: 16 New
                  +1
                  Does Ukraine have a Black Sea Fleet? wink What else is there? And in which regiment did you serve?
                  1. rolik
                    rolik 21 September 2013 12: 27 New
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    And in which regiment did you serve?

                    LVMB 89-91 years old. And Ukraine still has a "fleet". The truth is much less than at the beginning of the section - but there is. But what years did you serve?
  • Denis_Rossiya
    Denis_Rossiya 19 September 2013 09: 30 New
    +3
    The main thing is that until the construction of the ship for Russia again they’ll not lose everything that they collected bit by bit until now
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 19 September 2013 09: 39 New
    +4
    ... The ship "Vikramaditya" has actually become a "training ground" for developing technologies and restoring production potential. Unfortunately, it will not replenish the Russian Navy, but instead of a new ship, our shipbuilding has received the necessary funding and extensive experience. It is likely that the restored production and the experience gained will be used in the development and construction of promising Russian aircraft carriers. Such projects are only planned and are at the stage of discussion of the very need for an aircraft carrier fleet ...

    Do not lose this invaluable experience, shipbuilders !!!
    MO - good swing, give orders for both projects and construction.
    Good luck.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 19 September 2013 10: 01 New
      +1
      Well, here’s the next Kuzya will come there for a big repair. And, after him, think about the new aircraft carrier. Which is not yet. That is, there are only mock proposals. Navy thinks. After you come up with and choose a layout, there will be a lot of work to develop the project, this is at least for 5 years.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 19 September 2013 10: 06 New
    +1
    The second, no less important aspect of the Vikramaditya project concerns carrier-based fighters. The Indian order spurred the modernization of the existing MiG-29K project. As a result, the carrier-based fighter is not only designed, but also built in a limited series. In the near future, it is planned to begin assembling such aircraft for both the Indian Navy and the Russian Navy.
    The author correctly forgot that the first batch of Mig-29K (12 units) and Mig-29KUB (4 units) aircraft for India have already been built and transferred. Now the construction and transfer of the next batch of 29 Mig-29K (KUB) aircraft is underway. In 2013, the Russian Navy will receive 2 Mig-29K aircraft and 2 Mig-29KUB aircraft. And until 2015 they will transfer the entire batch of 24 aircraft (20-Mig-29K and 4-Mig-29KUB)
  • rugor
    rugor 19 September 2013 10: 11 New
    +1
    Interesting and what the shipyard in Nikolaev is loaded now? Equipment, personnel, technology, is everything lost or are they building what?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 10: 31 New
      +4
      Shipyards in Nikolaev, consider no more. Of the approximately 40 thousand people who worked during the Soviet era, no more than 2000 thousand remained, and even those, mainly the administration.
      Something like building ... on a small scale.
      1. Igor80
        Igor80 19 September 2013 14: 57 New
        +3
        Plants are simply sawing for scrap metal, and in full swing ... Nikolaev is no longer a city of shipbuilders, but a city of hucksters. One "Zarya-Mashproekt", where the turbines are made, is trying to flutter, but there are no new developments for a long time, and the old ones were sold together with those. Chinese documentation. The final is not far off ...
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 15: 29 New
          +6
          This is sad. Very sad
    2. Professor
      Professor 19 September 2013 12: 49 New
      +6
      Quote: rugor
      Interesting and what the shipyard in Nikolaev is loaded now? Equipment, personnel, technology, is everything lost or are they building what?

      Not a shipyard, but a factory. The difference is significant. Firstly, the people fled. The Baltics, Norway or even other "topics" have moved. The territory was divided and sold. Now they are suing. It got to the point of absurdity that part of the zero slipway was sold to some kind of entrepreneur for storage and now they cannot drive it out. There are no vocational schools, there are almost no specialists.
      In short, there is no more hope for ChSZ. sad
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 20 September 2013 00: 32 New
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Firstly, the people fled. Baltic States, Norway
        Just shipbuilders did not go there basically. They were lured to China to work in their specialty, immediately after the purchase of an aircraft carrier. We draw conclusions ...
  • de bouillon
    de bouillon 19 September 2013 10: 39 New
    +7
    check out the project hi

    MiGs, PAKFs, "Kamovs"
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 10: 45 New
      11
      So so fantasy. Catapults - no, the starting positions are drawn according to the principle "I heard the ringing, but I do not know where it is" - there are 30-50 meters to the springboard at best! The artist himself would go there and take off. There are 100500 (more precisely - 36) launchers a la "granite" in the nose behind some kind of a gob - and all this is stylized under the British "Queen Elizabeth"
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 10: 40 New
    12
    Fundamentally, the article at the article is absolutely right - it was Indian orders that allowed our shipbuilder to survive, and it was Vikramaditya that saved and restored many critical technologies, as well as the backbone of workers and shipbuilding engineers.
    At the same time, it should be understood that the most important technologies of the promising aircraft carrier did not find their application on Vikramaditya. If we want a full-fledged AV and not an ersatz like Vikramaditya, then we need early warning aircraft. This requires catapults. To provide such a ship with energy, an atomic power plant is needed. In addition, it is necessary to finally provide an effective BIUS for AV, which, as I understand it, is not what Vikramaditya is. Until we master all of the above, we will not create a full-fledged AV - there will be another "lame duck" without AWACS or with catapults, but it does not matter that the usual power plant works, etc. So Vikramaditya - what is there to say, this is a Stage, but to say "We have made AB for the Hindus, we can now do AB for ourselves" - is still a sin against the truth.
  • smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 19 September 2013 10: 58 New
    +9
    By the way, what makes Russia different from the rest of the world is that the rest talk about what is, and we talk about what will be. In addition to beauty, for a warship, cost, functionality, combat stability, modernization potential and maintainability are also important. If all the qualities are present, this is the right ship. The huge developed superstructure at Kuznetsovo is rather a disadvantage. Firstly, this is windage, and secondly, a large radar reflection (that is, visibility) and an increased vulnerability of the GKP during a missile attack.
    Moreover, there are the following problems:
    1. There are still no AWACS aircraft on our aircraft carriers (including Soviet ones). And when will be - HZ. However, something from the shore can cope with target designation - the same AWACS or satellite. Or an UAV from an arsenal ship.
    2. There would be a catapult on this beauty. So that the possibility of using an air connection does not depend on the state of the power plant, small, medium or full speed. So that the machines can take off even when drifting (with a half combat load). This is especially critical with respect to the combat readiness of the allocated duty forces .
    3. A plane with a control unit is also ... bad. AUG maybe he will see for 300 km. Or maybe not. But for less contrasting purposes such as groups of surface ships, the range will be quite comparable with the same range of naval air defense systems.
    1. smiths xnumx
      smiths xnumx 19 September 2013 16: 38 New
      +5
      Due to the small composition of strike aircraft and the lack of refueling with a normal AWACS, it is difficult to fully accomplish the tasks of air strikes, but giving combat stability to operational naval units (that is, strengthening / guarding) is just the thing: to repel reconnaissance aircraft and ward off airplanes and from boats a horde of helicopters and missiles to shoot and radars on board the enemy’s not worthless range to detect on the approach and the complex of their own space communications.
      Comparative dimensions of flight decks of existing and prospective aircraft carriers (picture clickable)
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 September 2013 20: 03 New
      +5
      Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
      The huge developed superstructure at Kuznetsovo is rather a disadvantage. Firstly, this is windage, and secondly, a large radar reflection (that is, visibility) and an increased vulnerability of the GKP during a missile attack.

      Roman, the huge superstructure "Kuznetsov" is because it "hidden" chimneys of 8 ship boilers, plus diesel generators, etc. There will be a nuclear power plant will not be such a large island. There will remain a running post, UPC, posts of the REU.
      Secondly, in a combat situation, the GKP is not located in the superstructure. The ship and aircraft are controlled from the central control center located deep in the "belly" of the ship. It is structurally protected from direct penetration of the "Harpoon" anti-ship missile system, and has at least 2 upward exits. Information about the external situation from the radar and TLV.
      1. old man54
        old man54 19 September 2013 21: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Secondly, in a combat situation, the GKP is not located in the superstructure. The ship and aircraft are controlled from the central control center located deep in the "belly" of the ship. It is structurally protected from direct penetration of anti-ship missiles there.

        good wink Alexander hi
  • USNik
    USNik 19 September 2013 12: 22 New
    +1
    which in the near future will have to serve on an aircraft carrier and fly on MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB planes.
    I don’t want to start another holivar, but I think that refusing from drying in favor of instants is a mistake. Arguments like the fact that migrants work better on the ground do not pass, on the ground, and on the water it works wonderfully and the Su-25utg! The statement on a more advanced electronic filling on the 29th is good, but where is the pancake spent on 30 and 35 upgrades, what prevents them from being used on 33m !? In general, of course, the Indians need to sell Migi, but for our Kuznetsov both MIG-29K / cube and SU-33 (modernized) are needed.
    1. smiths xnumx
      smiths xnumx 19 September 2013 12: 24 New
      +5
      It is clear that both the MiG-29K and the MiG-29KUB at the Vikramaditya are being worked out for Kuznetsov. Because it's no secret that the SU-33 is an excellent aircraft, but it was designed for Ulyanovsk. And only intrigues put him on the deck of "Kuznetsov" from which he was forced to start, at best, with three quarters of ammunition, but when there were problems with the propulsion system, they flew empty altogether. So now everything is back to normal.
      1. VAF
        VAF 19 September 2013 12: 51 New
        +5
        Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
        And only intrigues put him on the deck of "Kuznetsov" from which he was forced to start, at best, with three quarters of ammunition, but when there were problems with the propulsion system, they flew empty altogether. So now everything is back to normal.


        I completely agree, +! Although with 3 / 4BK ... only the testers tried and ... quickly returned to normal takeoff weight (2P-27 and 2P-73), fortunately, when developing the Su-27 family, these missiles are just included in the criterion "normal takeoff weight" ! soldier
    2. VAF
      VAF 19 September 2013 12: 48 New
      12
      Quote: USNik
      I don’t want to start another holivar,


      Do not want to ... here and do not arrange!

      1. The argument that the Mig Beetle, and later the Barsa-29 (on ours, at least they promised), surpasses all arguments in the "profitability of the Su-33), not to mention the range of weapons.

      2. On the Su-25UTG, ALL (!!!!) was removed, which is only possible from weapons and armor ... otherwise he would not even fly up with a catapult.
      From armament only ... a slingshot in the second cockpit and then .. you need to open the lantern (just kidding)

      3. About the upgrades on the 30th and 35th .. study the section "AO" of the Airplane Flight Manual of these aircraft ... everything is written in CAPITAL LETTERS.

      4. Su-33 on Kuza is just "pushing" authority ... no more.

      5. About Su-33M-forget it!

      You can take more trivial Migareys, for them there are tankers, their KUB can be used for group defense electronic warfare aircraft, and, for example, AWACS-Ka-31 helicopter (at least something).

      I don’t put a minus, although it would be worth it .. He said correctly at the beginning of the tape Experienced ... "trampled slogans"! wassat
      1. kostya_a
        kostya_a 19 September 2013 14: 32 New
        +4
        I will support comrade! Drying 33rd was originally adapted for the ship version with the Su-27, and this is known to be a heavy destroyer for gaining air supremacy. Mig light forontovykh destroyer, was developed according to such performance characteristics: long range, the ability to use short runways (including the use of poorly prepared strips), excellent agility, speed above 2 max and heavy weapons. And Kuznetsov himself belongs to the class of light aircraft-carrying cruisers. Given that now there is no experience in the construction of catapults, probably the choice in favor of the MIGs is understandable! Yes, and carry on board MIGs, as I understand it, can be more, due to the smaller size! We have not yet decided on the new appearance of the aircraft carrier cruisers, it’s clear that it will be with the Atomic Reactor and a displacement of 75 tons. IMHO if such a ship appears, it is most likely closer to 000.
        1. spravochnik
          spravochnik 19 September 2013 23: 00 New
          +1
          You are mistaken, there is experience in creating and even using catapults. catapults were made in Leningrad and were installed on a thread. True, they were used to disperse aircraft with the help of which air finishers tested. Such catapults should have been in Ulyanovsk.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 19 September 2013 20: 11 New
        +3
        Quote: vaf
        You can take more commonplace Migaras, there are tankers for them, you can make a group defense electronic warfare plane from KUB, well, and an AWACS Ka-31 helicopter (at least something).

        Sergey, good evening! I would like to ask a question: Does the Migagh have equipment for receiving radar images from the satellite of the "Liana" system? If you have info - educate!
        1. VAF
          VAF 19 September 2013 20: 51 New
          +4
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          And on Migagi there is equipment for receiving radar images from the satellite of the "Liana" system?


          Fiery sea wolves fellow !

          Alexander, let me remind you that the engineering and technical instruction PD has not been canceled yet. wink bully

          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          If you have info - enlighten!


          Yes, but ... bully in Rostov is much better ... than in "sunny Magadan" wassat

          So buddy ... call me, but drinks
          1. old man54
            old man54 19 September 2013 21: 45 New
            +3
            hello to both! drinks
            Quote: vaf
            Alexander, let me remind you that the engineering and technical instruction PD has not been canceled yet.

            Quote: vaf
            in Rostov is much better ... than in "sunny Magadan"

            good laughing
      3. old man54
        old man54 19 September 2013 21: 51 New
        +2
        Quote: vaf
        The Su-33 on the Kuza is simply "pushing through" by authority ... no more.
        5. About Su-33M-forget it!

        Sergey, I have some unofficial info from veterans of the MA that Kuznetsov was often beaten and there are flying accidents, when during landing, the Su-33 fell below the level of the PP and despite the tough commands of the flight manager ... crashed into the stern of the AB. And so more than once! It's true?? hi
        1. VAF
          VAF 20 September 2013 12: 30 New
          +2
          Quote: old man54
          that on Kuznetsovo it was often beaten and there are flying accidents, when at landing the Su-33 fell below the level of the PP and despite the tough commands of the flight manager ... crashed into the stern of the AB. And so more than once! It's true??


          No ... these are "ducks" ... there were rough landings with broken racks, there was a descent from the deck (Y. Kortnev), there were takeoffs in the parking lot, calls were below the glide path, but like that .. whatever .... " muzzle in the stern "... no ....." this is speculation "!

          By the way .... a photo of a couple on duty, with standard weapons (which I already wrote about) .. there was no time to document! soldier

          1. old man54
            old man54 20 September 2013 17: 28 New
            0
            Quote: vaf
            photo of a couple on duty, with standard weapons (as already written

            those. The Su-33 has only 2 medium-range air-to-air missiles on deck and 2 melee missiles or what? Something like that ... for 2013 it will be watery !! negative
            Thanks for the answer, Sergey! hi
    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 13: 16 New
      +4
      Quote: USNik
      I don’t want to start another holivar, but I think that refusing from drying in favor of instants is a mistake.

      Everything is incomprehensible there. Firstly, Su-33 aircraft are far from old, and their pilots were piloted by extra-class pilots, not Zanzibar gouges. Why do they write about a developed resource? It is not clear.
      If we fantasize a little, and imagine that there is a PAK FA deck to be, then investing in a deep modernization of the Su-33 now there really is no point - to create a limited batch of dry a la Su-35 expensive and long. You can do it while Mig-29K 9 along the way supporting the Migovites contract), and there the PAC will come. But if there is no deck PAK FA ...
      Quote: USNik
      Arguments like the fact that migrants work better on the ground do not pass, on the ground, and on the water it works wonderfully and su-25utg!

      It will not work. The machine in terms of filling Mig-29 is not a competitor
      Quote: USNik
      but where the pancake worked on 30 and 35 upgrades

      Where they are supposed to be, on Su-30 and Su-35 :))) These are still very different planes from Su-33.
      In general, I think so - if the existing Su-33 has enough resources, then it would be nice to upgrade the existing ones. And we don’t need new ones anymore, let’s get by with an instant, but PAK FA needs a deck one! am
  • smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 19 September 2013 13: 23 New
    +3
    An anonymous source in the Ministry of Defense told Interfax that the aircraft carrier's march to the shores of Syria is not planned in the near future: "There is no need for the presence of a TAVKR in the Mediterranean Sea, since a group of the Russian Navy is deployed there, capable of performing all possible tasks." So that's it. According to Interfax, the long-distance campaign was planned for the beginning of next year, according to the Military-Industrial Courier, for December 5 of this year. On 05.09 the cruiser passed the course mission (performed live firing) in the Barents Sea after the restoration of technical readiness, in October, carrier-based aircraft flights will begin.
    On September 13, Independent Military Review, citing Interfax-AVN, reported that in the first half of 2014, Kuznetsov will undergo major overhaul and deep modernization at Sevmash. This is both good and bad. Good - because after the repair, the TAVKR will return to the Navy with a qualitatively updated (I hope that with a new reliable power plant), bad - because for five long years Russia will cease to be an aircraft carrier. The cancellation of the Varyag's visit to Australia is directly related to the cancellation of the Kuznetsov's trip to the Mediterranean Sea. In other words, "Varyag" goes there not in order to strengthen the naval aircraft carrier group, but in order to replace it. The last known photographs of "Kuznetsov" were taken during the ship's departure from Murmansk on 21.08.2013 (photo johnkey68 from forums.airbase.ru) - the aircraft carrier is permanently based on the territory of the Murmansk branch of the Zvezdochka CS for the well-known reason for the lack of the necessary infrastructure in Severomorsk ...
    http://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/

    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 September 2013 13: 55 New
      +2
      In the technical condition in which Kavnetsov’s Tavkr is located, the transition to the Mediterranean Naval Theater and the fulfillment of tasks is very controversial. It is risky to send a ship with repeatedly extended resources of the main and auxiliary mechanisms to the Mediterranean Sea without the presence of bases and allies before being repaired for military service. Especially in the autumn-winter period. It is necessary to have at least a workshop equipped with modern tools and a set of spare parts.
      1. Professor
        Professor 19 September 2013 14: 20 New
        +4
        Quote: gunnerminer
        .To send a ship with repeatedly extended resources of the main and auxiliary mechanisms to the Mediterranean Sea, without the presence of bases and allies before repair to the combat service is risky

        If necessary, Haifa will be re-contacted (joke). wink
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 September 2013 16: 10 New
          +1
          If necessary, Haifa will be reconstructed (joke)




          A normal joke. In Haifa, you can replenish food supplies (a quick port), give the crew a rest. Theoretically.
        2. user
          user 19 September 2013 18: 25 New
          0
          Quote: Professor
          Quote: gunnerminer
          .To send a ship with repeatedly extended resources of the main and auxiliary mechanisms to the Mediterranean Sea, without the presence of bases and allies before repair to the combat service is risky

          If necessary, Haifa will be re-contacted (joke). wink


          But the Jews could not understand where such interest from, and most importantly such knowledge, the state of things in the shipbuilding of the Russian Federation, and they reduce everything to basing in Haifa (just kidding).
        3. Ivan Ural
          Ivan Ural 19 September 2013 18: 55 New
          +3
          Haifa - a new item in the Russian Navy's ITO! Hooray comrades! Joke too wink
          1. Professor
            Professor 19 September 2013 20: 14 New
            +6
            Quote: Ivan Ural
            Haifa - a new item in the Russian Navy's ITO! Hooray comrades! Joke too wink

            Why? Thousand 30 valid Russian citizens are already in Haifa. Here, let them protect them. How many Russians were in South Ossetia? wink
    2. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 September 2013 18: 59 New
      0
      bad - because for the long five years Russia will cease to be an aircraft carrier power.



      With the deteriorating state of the economy of the Russian Federation, in the absence of technical documentation for project 11435, and with an acute shortage of all categories of shiprepair personnel, the repair and modernization of the TAVKR will take at least 10 years, although the repair and modernization plans have not yet been finalized and have not been approved.
  • rotor
    rotor 19 September 2013 13: 52 New
    +2
    Why Russia is now an expensive aircraft carrier. Aircraft carrier stands at the top of the pyramid of ships.

    And the pyramid, as you know, is being built from the base, that is, first the guard ships should leave the slipways, and only then you can take care of the aircraft carriers themselves.

    And if you start building a pyramid from the top, you can be left without an expensive aircraft carrier in the first conflict.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 19 September 2013 14: 53 New
    0
    Now we need 2-3 escort aircraft carriers. The task is the qualitative strengthening of air defense, anti-aircraft defense, reconnaissance, target designation, long-range AWACS connections on an isolated theater of operations. Such aircraft carriers are smaller, cheaper, non-nuclear, can be built in the foreseeable time at existing shipyards, correspond to the existing repair base. They complement existing surface ships with their albeit limited strike capabilities, correspond to the tasks facing the fleet, and make it possible to train specialists in operation and control.
    Various exotics on the topic of a hyper-superatomic space that has no analogues in the world, a harmful dispersion of modest funds and available scanty efforts in design and construction. It's high time to take our military men by the scruff of the scruff and shake them well, so that they would stop being attached to inappropriate and premature fantasies and begin to solve existing and expected problems in the near future. The current situation is beneficial for the military, funds are allocated, "work is in full swing", there is zero responsibility and trouble, awards and length of service are ongoing, everyone is happy.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 15: 31 New
      +3
      You have a contradiction
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Now we need 2-3 escort carriers.

      и
      Quote: chunga-changa
      reconnaissance, target designation, long-range AWACS connections

      In order for the AWAC to be needed, a catapult is needed. And for a catapult, you need a large AB and atomic
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 19 September 2013 16: 17 New
        +1
        Not a contradiction, ka-xnumx.
        I understand that everyone wants Russia to have 3 nuclear aircraft carriers in 5-70 years from which the A-50 take off in pairs, on which there are Satan nuclear missiles and the S-900 complex, which hits a squirrel in the eye in Mars orbit. In the meantime, while our military defends Syria, including missile boats, other military, older men are pondering the projects of a nuclear destroyer and a three-medium aircraft carrier complex, it must be assumed in a couple of years and their mass production will begin throughout the country. Obviously, these military have already successfully solved all the standing tasks before the fleet and determined their range for 2020-2050.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 16: 57 New
          +3
          Quote: chunga-changa
          Not a contradiction, ka-xnumx.

          Ka-31 is quite unsuitable as an AWACS now and completely unsuitable as a promising tool for AWACS. For the purpose of SARS, the Ka-31 radar is weak, while the Ka-31 is not an aviation control point, like the same American Hokai.
          Quote: chunga-changa
          I understand that everyone wants Russia to have 3 pieces of nuclear-powered aircraft carriers in 5-70 years

          You just don’t need to postpone everything "for later, when", because this happy "when" will never come. It is necessary to calmly develop research on specialized topics - to develop a small-sized AWACS aircraft, electromagnetic catapults, etc. But there is no point in investing huge funds in obviously weak ships instead. Here the British torture their Queen Elizabeths - there are no catapults, AWACS - no, the air group is relatively small, and AB will soon cost like Nimitz.
          1. chunga-changa
            chunga-changa 19 September 2013 18: 39 New
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Ka-31 is quite unsuitable as an AWACS

            Suitable or not suitable. It can illuminate the surface and air conditions at ranges higher than the available means of destruction or not. As I understand the difference between escort and strike aircraft carriers, you know, the tasks they solve, the composition and capabilities of the equipment on board, or you do not know.
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            It is necessary to quietly expand research on relevant topics

            Tell me where you are going to calmly deploy them and why calmly, from what means, when will the result. When research appears in the gland, what will be the characteristics.
            The work of not perspective is beautiful and amazing, it is done with pleasure, then either the padishah dies or the donkey, we have both perfectly mastered. Or they write "unfortunately, the project of this magnificent ship was ahead of its time and could not be carried out at the then existing level of production (economic potential)." Yeah, but now what to do, what to send to Syria, and after all, the fate of Russia is being decided there too. He can still do what he can afford and according to his capabilities.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 21: 05 New
              +2
              Quote: chunga-changa
              It can illuminate the surface and air conditions at ranges higher than the available means of destruction or not.

              You put questions somehow more correctly. Means of destruction, if anything, cannot illuminate the surface and air conditions. At no distance.
              Quote: chunga-changa
              As I understand the difference between escort and strike aircraft carriers, you know, the tasks they solve, the composition and capabilities of the equipment on board, or you do not know.

              I know the goals and objectives of an escort aircraft carrier. They include transportation of aircraft, support for landing and escorting convoys to ensure their PLO / PVO (but first of all - PLO). But the trouble is that escort aircraft carriers have not existed for many decades. In principle, with a big stretch, you can try to record the same British Invincibles in escort aircraft carriers, but they had a clearly expressed anti-submarine orientation and their task in the plans of the great war was to hunt for Soviet submarines with the goal of not letting them into the Atlantic. Those. Invincible and an escort aircraft carrier have about the same thing as a female programmer with a guinea pig (not a mumps or a guinea pig) (dear female programmers, sorry, this is a stupid joke). However, with a strong desire, a similarity can still be found, sometimes escortmen were part of ship-hunting submarine groups.
              But what you mean by the tasks of the class of ships that does not exist today - I, of course, do not know. I would like to understand, because a ship is valuable in the task it performs. I myself do not see the tasks for small aircraft carriers for the Russian fleet.
              Quote: chunga-changa
              Tell me where you are going to calmly deploy them and why calmly, from what means, when will the result.

              Of the funds planned by you for escort aircraft carriers, of course. Well, how much time R&D and designing of aircraft and equipment of this kind take you will learn without me on the Internet. It’s not fast, but the sooner we start, the faster we’ll do it.
              Quote: chunga-changa
              The work is not perspective beautiful and amazing, it is carried out with pleasure, then either the donkeys or the donkey die, we both have perfectly mastered the options.

              Those. it was not necessary to develop PAK FA, do I understand you correctly? it would be better with these funds a little Su-30 put in the troops, so in your opinion? Since a bird is better in hands than a duck under the bed?
    2. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 September 2013 16: 16 New
      +3
      It's high time to take our military men by the scruff of the scruff and shake them well, so that they would stop being attached to inappropriate and premature fantasies and begin to solve existing and expected problems in the near future. The current situation is beneficial for the military, funds are allocated, "work is in full swing", there is zero responsibility and trouble, awards and length of service are ongoing, everyone is happy.



      The military does not set tasks for itself. The fleet does not set tasks for itself. The armies and fleets are a tool of politicians. The tool does not seek work for itself. This is done by a person or a group of people using the tool. Escort aircraft carriers have a significant drawback - the lack of a catapult. What imposes serious restrictions on the rise of aircraft, makes the wing command dependent on weather conditions, navigation conditions, speed of the aircraft carrier, the lack of the ability to raise aircraft carrier on-duty forces at any time.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 19 September 2013 18: 25 New
        0
        Well, dream further about catapults and all that.
        When the leadership sets tasks for the military, they report what forces and means they need to fulfill, and what they can accomplish with cash. Or is it your way it works differently. Regarding the bad little aircraft carriers, answer a simple question. Sending Kuznetsov without any aircraft at all, with only helicopters on board to Syria, would strengthen our squadron or weaken it.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 19 September 2013 18: 50 New
          +1
          Sending Kuznetsov without any aircraft at all, with only helicopters on board to Syria, would strengthen our squadron or weaken it.




          Sending TAVKR Kuznetsov with airplanes, without airplanes, with helicopters, without helicopters, in any case, will not take place. The technical condition of the Tavkr Kuznetsov requires the start of overhaul immediately. The postponement of the start of repair has passed all reasonable limits. How can strengthen the grouping of a ship with worn out main and auxiliary mechanisms, without the guaranteed ability to give full speed for raising an air connection or at least a duty unit? Requiring air defense, PLO, at least short-range protection from the ship’s composition of the already modest forces of the group? Without an AWACS plane, without an REB plane, without rear support, without the possibility of an emergency landing on the coastal airfield, due to the lack of allies? Without a trained and approved reserve of the flight and handling personnel?
    3. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 September 2013 19: 21 New
      +2
      Such aircraft carriers are smaller, cheaper, non-nuclear, can be built in the foreseeable time at existing shipyards, correspond to the existing repair base.


      The frigate 22350 Gorshkov has not been a masterpiece of shipbuilding since 2009. What other escort aircraft carriers? The military-political leadership, the Office for the Prospective Development and Construction of the Navy, cannot clearly explain why they acquired - Mistral-! What are the carriers there! Without infrastructure, without enough guard ships.
  • USNik
    USNik 19 September 2013 15: 34 New
    +1
    Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
    And only intrigues put him on deck "Kuznetsov" from which he is forced to start at best with three quarters of ammunitionbut when there were problems with the propulsion system they generally flew empty

    For a long time, I saw with my own eyes a video in which the SU-33 took off from the Kuzi deck with a full combat load, I could not find the video, because it is everywhere worn out by age. But here is an excerpt "almost" about the Su-33:
    "On November 17.11.1989, 29, military test pilots of the Air Force Research Institute of the Air Force, VN Kandaurov (on MiG-27K) and Yu. A. Semkin (on Su- They took off from the springboard sequentially increasing the take-off weight of their vehicles in a sea state of 4-5 points, different speeds of the ship and the strength of the headwind. It was found that with full refueling and 4 missiles (takeoff weight 29,9 t) The Su-27K is capable of taking off close to the launching position No. 2 even at the 7th knot of the ship. And at 15 knots it is possible to start from the third launching position with full refueling and maximum ammunition (takeoff weight 32,2t) "
    S. Balakin, V. Zablotsky "Soviet aircraft carriers. Aircraft-carrying cruisers of Admiral Gorshkov", pp. 198-199.
    True, the take-off video does not say how much fuel was on board No. It may well be that they took off with dry tanks. And yet, yes, after reading aerobaza.ru I agree with VAFom i Andrey from Chelyabinsk, which is more suitable for Kuznetsov, the smaller and lighter Mig-29k, although he, according to the estimates of comrades, will also not take off with full tanks and maximum load, the runways are short and there is not enough catapult ...
  • fon_Stierlitz
    fon_Stierlitz 19 September 2013 16: 30 New
    +2
    I don’t taste something - why do we need aircraft carriers of modern Russia at all? We and "Kuznetsova" do not know where to screw it and what to do with it, then during repairs, then in the north it drives bears. This is a vessel for the ocean, but we do not have such and in the near future is not expected. In the Baltic Sea, the Russian aircraft carrier is not needed nafig, because all potential adversaries are well fed by land aviation, on the Black Sea - especially since at the Pacific Fleet we have an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" - Sakhalin. Now it is not the Cold War and we do not live in the Soviet Union, we do not bring democracy to the Papuans, we do not have bases in third countries, and in the ocean there are enough submarines in case of something.

    India needs aircraft carriers, it has an ocean at hand and needs to be controlled, China needs friendly visits to no less friendly African countries, the United States needs to bring the light of democracy. And Russia, in my opinion, now needs more modern destroyers and attacking submarines
  • ka5280
    ka5280 19 September 2013 16: 56 New
    0
    I want to congratulate shipbuilders on their initiative!
    ps comrade Confucius even said the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, so let it be the first step for Russian shipbuilders.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 19 September 2013 17: 15 New
    +2
    It is clearly not advisable to build aircraft carriers in Russia just "so that they were" and can say that we have them, without imagining what tasks they need to perform now. Perhaps in the near future they will be needed, and experience in operating Kuznetsov and experience in repairing Vikramaditya will not be superfluous it is not superfluous even now. The main thing is to know for sure whether we need them now or in the near future, because such types of weapons may appear that will not give a chance to aircraft carriers.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 19 September 2013 17: 19 New
    +2
    Guys, yes to the Indians, THANKS must be said from us and from the entire ship industry! Thanks to the orders of their Navy in the harsh 90s and early 2000s, the shipyards were able to load our destroyers with the completion of them. And if not for them, "Gorshkov" would have decayed in the backwater. This is how the NSR was able to work out the production of surface large-tonnage ships, new for the Russian industry. Otherwise, apart from talking about aircraft carriers, the matter would never have gotten off the ground in the future. smile
  • bulvas
    bulvas 19 September 2013 19: 13 New
    +5
    So far, Russia does not need aircraft carriers. We need icebreakers, tankers, gas carriers, platforms for oil and gas production, and all this is desirable to build at home.
    Build dozens of destroyers, frigates, corvettes, submarines, infrastructure, bases, including in the north and keep it all right.

    Focus more on air defense and missile defense ships

    There will be interests beyond the oceans - then you can build aircraft carriers.

    For Russia with open spaces, airships are needed to develop the north and the Far East
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 19 September 2013 19: 15 New
      +2
      So far, Russia does not need aircraft carriers. We need icebreakers, tankers, gas carriers, platforms for oil and gas production, and all this is desirable to build at home.
      Build dozens of destroyers, frigates, corvettes, submarines, infrastructure, bases, including in the north and keep it all right.

      Focus more on air defense and missile defense ships


      That's right!
  • amp
    amp 19 September 2013 20: 15 New
    +1
    Russia does not need these floating coffins.
  • castle
    castle 19 September 2013 20: 17 New
    +4
    Good day to all. Carriers are needed not only to crush someone over the horizon, but also to defend their own borders. In combination with a support group, this is both air defense and missile defense, and anti-ship and anti-submarine grouping. This is an outpost, the vanguard of defense. And, most importantly, this is a testing ground for break-in advanced shipbuilding, aviation, space and metallurgical technologies, and therefore for the revival of Russian science and economics. And, for sure, to solve problems in the field of economic law enforcement. Building one group will show what you are worth. Either steal the money (and bury Russia) and, then, worthless to you, or build and start again, rightfully, to be proud of yourself. And the construction of only one group will give work to all social layers of Russia. Because there will be a lot of work. It will be expensive, but necessary!
  • sprut
    sprut 19 September 2013 20: 43 New
    0
    In the five-year period - one aircraft carrier! One for each Russian fleet.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 19 September 2013 21: 08 New
      +1
      Aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya Indian Navy and SSBN "Dmitry Donskoy" pr.941UM at PO "Sevmash" in Severodvinsk

      [/ Center]
      The aircraft carrier pr.11430 "Vikramaditya" goes to sea for sea trials. Severodvinsk, July 3, 2013


      Aircraft carrier pr.11430 "Vikramaditya" on sea trials. 2013 year
      1. Apollo
        Apollo 19 September 2013 21: 16 New
        0
        citation- As a result, the new aircraft carrier of the Indian Navy will become a godfather of a kind for promising Russian ships.
        A model of a variant of a promising aircraft carrier in the office of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, which was shown in the TV program

        Model of a promising aircraft carrier presented at the stand of FSUE "Krylov State Scientific Center" at the salon
        IMDS-2013 in St. Petersburg. 04 July 2013 g

        The project of a promising aircraft carrier for the Russian Navy developed by FSUE "Krylov State Research Center", IMDS-2013 (c) August 2013
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 19 September 2013 23: 38 New
          0
          These are competing projects, there is still one with 4 catapults and a small springboard, until it is lit.

          And far from the fact that the Navy will approve at least one of these models.
        2. M. Peter
          M. Peter 20 September 2013 09: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Apollon
          A model of a promising aircraft carrier presented at the stand of the FSUE "Krylov State Research Center" at the IMDS-2013 show in St. Petersburg. July 04, 2013

          Quote: Apollon
          The project of a promising aircraft carrier for the Russian Navy developed by FSUE "Krylov State Research Center", IMDS-2013 (c) August 2013

          And a little higher, one user, the picture on which this model is just painted, the project was belittled by the most. He wrote that they say those who drew similar things and have nothing to do with aircraft carriers. wink
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 20 September 2013 12: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: M.Pyotr
            He wrote that they say those who drew similar things and have nothing to do with aircraft carriers.

            Believe it or not, the Krylov State Research Center FSUE has NOTHING to do with aircraft carriers and never had. You can read more about this center here http://flotprom.ru/catalog/?ELEMENT_ID=3337
            The area of ​​responsibility of the Krylovsky State Scientific Center is the whole range of seaworthiness (propulsion, controllability, behavior on a wave), design of various types of propulsors, strength, including explosion resistance and vibration, ship power and electric power, acoustic and electromagnetic qualities, stealth technologies, nuclear and radiation safety . Experiments, normative and methodological documentation, recommendations, design rules, etc. - traditional products of the Krylovsky SSC. The subject of activity is also the conceptual development and projects of civil marine equipment.

            If you go to them on the website http://krylov-center.ru/eng/activities/system-integration-technologies/system-in
            tegration-in-the-field-of-military-korablestroeni / index.php
            then you will find out that they have been integrating military technology since 2012
            In general, it was like this (this is not absolutely accurate, rather my IMHO, as far as I was able to track the publications on the issue) Krvlovsky KGTs received the rights to military "integration" of course, they no longer had military experience. But there was a reason to report that the project of the aircraft carrier of the Nevsky PKB (which was developed by the same Kuznetsov) is being carried out under their patronage :)
            Those guys who were directly related to the design of aircraft-carrying ships (Nevsky PKB) presented a project of a slightly improved Ulyanovsk. Our management did not like this, at the end of 2012 the project was hacked to death http://flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=130414. As a result, the task of making an advance project (FAST) remained with the Krylovsky FSUE, which is in this business ... Well, so they made an “advance project” As the German sailors said, when they saw the project of the cruiser, drawn by the Kaiser himself: “The ship is magnificent, only it will not float”
  • orek
    orek 19 September 2013 21: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: gunnerminer
    But for the URYalkins, of course Forward and Forward !!!! GIVE !!!!




    For the design and subsequent construction of an aircraft carrier, we first need a national idea. It doesn’t. We need a balanced domestic policy. It doesn’t. For the construction of the aircraft carrier, we had to start training workers, craftsmen, engineers and shipbuilders five years ago. We had to start building a modern shipyard five years ago. equipped with modern equipment. Five years ago it was necessary to start designing a modern AWACS aircraft, anti-submarine aircraft, EW aircraft. The Navy GK Admiral of the Fleet N.G. Kuznetsov said the fleet was also tasked. The military-political leadership is unable to clearly and loudly explain the need even for Mistral. There is silence about the aircraft carrier. For effective use, 4 aircraft carriers are needed. Two for the KSF and two for the KTOF. But there is and is unlikely to appear an infrastructure for basing aircraft carriers, there is no one to equip the crews of aircraft carriers and security ships.

    I totally agree.
    Why do we have a constant obsession with "catch up and overtake no matter what"? Look at the world map where amerovskoe naval bases are indicated, their number, the number of countries tied to providing AUG. I have a feeling that those who propose the immediate construction of aircraft carriers have decided to arrange a world redistribution. First, identify a potential adversary. As soon as the first aircraft carrier is laid on the stocks, this is a formal declaration of war on America. don't think of US analysts as stupid people. I hope they are not supposed to be used in the Northern Arctic. Russian territory allows assault and strategic aviation to strike at any camp in our hemisphere. It means only to build them for our "friends" from overseas. the reaction will be immediate and violent. Secondly, name the company where construction is possible. I'm not talking about the construction of the entire full-fledged group. Then the training of the operating personnel and still a lot of problems (there is no professional army). In one comment, it will not work out everything. It was in the 30s of the last century that it was possible to build the best weapon of the Great Patriotic War at the expense of the social system. Under the current conditions, try to take away toys (cars, real estate, etc.) from "plankton and hamsters" - this will be a small prank in Swamp. Moreover, the main owners of the industry are not under Russian jurisdiction. Here are the problems to tackle first.
  • orek
    orek 19 September 2013 21: 25 New
    0
    Quote: sprut
    In the five-year period - one aircraft carrier! One for each Russian fleet.

    A furry animal is guaranteed for the entire economy. Well, maybe you're going to fight in five different directions. Immediately, powerfully, insidiously and with everyone.
  • orek
    orek 19 September 2013 21: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: seasoned
    Bugaga, I can say with 95% accuracy that the slogans wassat will prevail in this topic in the comments
    We have not yet been able to build a single full-fledged aircraft carrier and this is a fact. We have neither personnel nor equipment for the construction of aircraft carriers, and this is fact No. 2.
    The "priority" of equipping the Russian Navy with aircraft carriers is very doubtful, and very, very many other facts, such as the budget, etc., etc.

    You guessed.
    Moreover, Fact number 3. For a hundred years since 1913 the Americans (the first "Langley", the last one introduced by "George W. Bush") got 77 pieces. The Russian fleet is not a single one falling under the standards. Do you think before the men "vaasche not fumbled" in the strategy of sea battles ??? And SS - 18 theoretically proved to be suitable for interplanetary flights. Or did it just happen? Aviation, if not for the 90s, would not have been equal in the world. And "Kuz'kina's MOTHER"? The army is formed for specific tasks, and not according to the principle of everything and for many things. I think the concept of supposed responses to potential enemy combat hasn't changed much since the last century.
  • AlexP47
    AlexP47 19 September 2013 21: 53 New
    +4
    The construction of a modern aircraft carrier (s) is now beyond our reach either financially or technologically. Only one problem with email. magician. catapults are worth something! The current GPV 2020 has already laid a heavy burden on the country's economy. Now, if 20 years ago it was possible to preserve the TAVKRs "Minsk", "Kiev", "Novorossiisk", now, it would be possible to rebuild them into light aircraft carriers of the "Vikramaditya" type. Now they would have 2 "budget" aircraft carriers in the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet. And so the rogue admirals sold the cruiser on the cheap for a great life.
  • harrymur
    harrymur 19 September 2013 23: 51 New
    +1
    like kuzyu ala vikra gathered to masturbate ... yah, and so what is it for our sailors that the aircraft carrier, in principle a brand in its concept of an icebreaker-breaking of the coast guard and a cover-patrol of 200 tons of miles, is an ideal option, everything is there, a couple of dozen flyers, powerful PCR and air defense, one kuzya + petruha is at least a day of lawlessness for which you can hack, protect any coastal defense, though swimming all the cards sports sports, which means we need aug already, the content of one day aug costs the region’s budget for the same day, we need it for show off? Amer Nimes are most of the service are in San Diego)))
    another kuzya + petruha looks reasonable on tof, well, I can’t believe me that we crap zae .. we have 4p full-fledged augs, two per sf and tof, and they will swim to the shaving, or to the san francisco-peck
    I am for simple and reliable borea and ash as a hand of the Lord
    ps unless we as well as some who do not feel our exclusivity, and want to convey to the unreasonable a word of truth and reason, on the wings of deck flyers))
  • cap-blood
    cap-blood 20 September 2013 00: 05 New
    +1
    I could not even immediately decide how to speak: so many problems were intertwined in one concept of "shipbuilding". Strategic, geopolitical, design and technical, logistic, organizational, educational, socio-economic ...
    Honestly, it is painful to realize that the "committee members" (from the 300-ot committee) in Ukraine and Russia have missed out on everything that was related to shipbuilding in a city like Nikolaev: several design and research institutes, design bureaus, specialized factories , three shipbuilding plants, Nikolaev Shipbuilding Institute (NKI), one of two for the entire USSR, - now it is USMU, - one abbreviation is worth it. Now it trains lawyers, economists, designers, in general, anyone, just not engineers, real engineers, firstly, because they are not needed, and secondly, you can get a diploma for money, but you cannot become an engineer. The "last of the Mohicans", the turbine Zarya-Mashproekt, is barely glowing. If this plant also dies (and everything goes to this), the city will end. But Minsk, Kiev, and Varyag left its stocks ...
    What to do? I do not know. Need patriots. Patriots of the Russian people, spirit, patriots of culture and intelligence. Does anyone hear? ..
  • CARBON
    CARBON 20 September 2013 03: 44 New
    +1
    As for me, the modernization of "Admiral Gorshkov" was a success, and therefore they decided not to waste time and skill to modernize "Admiral Kuznetsov" in the same way.
  • moremansf
    moremansf 20 September 2013 10: 55 New
    0
    With the collapse of the Union, all the technologies and documentation for the construction of aircraft-carrying ships remained in Ukraine, in the city of Nikolaev (Black Sea shipyard) where during the years of the USSR all our ships of this class were built, repaired and modernized (Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev, Baku (Gorshkov), Minsk, Novorossiysk, Kuznetsov, Varyag, Ulyanovsk). None of the shipbuilding enterprises had more similar stocks ... Sevmash, always specialized in the construction and repair of nuclear submarines, and his modernization of "Gorshkov" in "Vikramaditiya" made it possible to work out a new technology for the plant and develop design documentation ... Of course, shout "Hurray" is still early, for the development of such technologies, and even more so for the construction of aircraft carriers, we are still far away, but a colossal work has been done by the workers of the plant, and most importantly, the Navy has a crew capable of operating a ship of this class ... this is also important ... as one famous literary hero said; -The ice is broken, gentlemen of the jury ... In the photo is the conclusion of "Vikramaditya" from Sevmash ...
  • doktor_alex
    doktor_alex 21 September 2013 02: 37 New
    0
    Cool, srach is gaining momentum again =))) Meanwhile, Gorshkov today returned to us in Sevsk.
  • Andrey77
    Andrey77 22 September 2013 12: 20 New
    0
    from bookmarks to sea trials of an aircraft carrier - 15 years minimum. Those. if a decision is now made, we will see the lead ship in 2028.