Military Review

Long way to fifth generation

35



Adoption of T-50 into service was again postponed for a year.

The flight test program of a promising front-line aviation complex aviation (PAK FA) The T-50 is advancing quite successfully, but the aircraft itself is still far from being adopted. In this case, the final technical appearance of the fighter will be formed a few years after entering service. Part of the reason for this is the devastating 90s that drove the defense industry back decades ago, as well as the lack of reliable production facilities. But all difficulties can be overcome.

Today, four flight prototypes are taking part in the T-50 flight test program, and by the end of 2013, another aircraft must join it. All tests are carried out relatively successfully, as far as this can be judged from open sources. However, the fact that not everything goes smoothly is evidenced by the following fact: of the four airplanes, only three "fifties" took part in the flight program of the MAKS-2013 air show, held in Zhukovsky near Moscow in late August.

For the first time, they showed the public a group flight, middle and upper aerobatics, including flying in the ranks, flying, barrel, loop and the legendary Pugachev Cobra. However, it was originally planned that all four prototypes of a promising fighter would fly in the sky over Zhukovsky - they had to demonstrate the “rhombus” figure. However, in the “trimmed” group the planes showed themselves effectively, especially in the single aerobatic program demonstrated by test pilot Sergei Bogdan.

Difficulties are surmountable

Why only four aircraft were admitted to the flight program remains a mystery. Sukhoi either decided to save one for an expanded test program (the fourth T-50 prototype installed new avionics, including a radar with an active phased antenna array H050), or for some reason was unable to prepare a flight model of a promising fighter to demonstration flights.

An indirect indication that during the implementation of the development program for the T-50, "Sukhoi" faces various kinds of difficulties, this is the next postponement of the adoption of the fighter into service. In the course of the same MAKS-2013 air show, the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force, Lieutenant-General Viktor Bondarev, announced that the T-50 would enter service only in the 2017 year.

Earlier, the leadership of the Ministry of Defense announced that T-50 would be serially supplied to troops from 2015 of the year, but later revised this period and called the new date 2016. If in a year or two the military suddenly declares that the T-50, the first Russian fifth generation, will start to enter the troops in the 2018 or 2019 year, you should not be surprised. However, it is categorical to say that everything is bad with the PAK FA. According to Bondarev, the Air Force will receive the first T-50 flight model for testing at the end of the 2013. And by the middle of the summer of this year, all the flight prototypes of the fighter had already completed more than 500 flights.

But to say that the program is moving in strict accordance with the original plans, is also impossible. Recall that in the 2010, it was asserted that in the 2013, the Lipetsk center for combat use and retraining of flight crews would receive the first ten T-50 prototype machines. Now we can confidently say that it will not receive. If only because these ten machines are not built. In the gland, there are only five T-50, the construction of the sixth aircraft has been approved, but for the remaining four PAK FA there is no reliable information.

These understandable difficulties are partly due to the devastating 90 years, when, due to the collapse of the USSR, the need to form a new economy, and then a large-scale crisis, the military programs were almost curtailed. The victims were the projects of the fifth generation fighter MiG-1.44 and Su-47. However, some of the developments obtained during the creation of the latter, was used in the design of the PAK FA. In particular, the production capacity of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant does not yet allow for a large-scale production of T-50, this will require significant investments.

In addition, in the 90-x there is a significant lag in the Russian electronics industry, the result of which is a long design and production of new electronic systems. Because of this, the transceiver modules of the onboard T-50 radar are today not being produced at one of the developer’s enterprises (in this case, the Tikhomirov Scientific Research and Development Institute), but individually at the Istok Research and Production Enterprise in Fryazino near Moscow. Such piece production makes the whole system more expensive and negatively affects the production time, although the radar itself shows excellent characteristics for a promising aircraft.

In general, of the entire project, it seems, only the aircraft armament, developed by Tactical Missile Armament Corporation, corresponds to all terms. Some of the missiles for the new combat aircraft are ready and undergoing tests, the other is in the final stages of development. At the same time, all prospective munitions are awaiting approval for testing on board their carrier. Such tests may begin by the end of 2013. In the meantime, the development of new weapons can only be done on Su-35 fighters.

No well-defined clarity and with the so-called power unit for the second stage T-50. Currently, the latest prototypes of the aircraft, and in the future the first production models, fly with the help of AL-41Ф1 engines (“117 Product”), which are largely unified with the AL-41Ф1С power units (“117С”) for Su-35 . Later, if all goes according to plan, T-50 get its own fifth-generation engines, which are known as "Type 30». For these engines, the work is almost in its infancy: by the end of 2013, the Lyulka Design Bureau should only complete the technical design of the power units and release the technical documentation necessary for the production of the gas generator demonstrator and the engine.

The development work on the 30 Type project is expected to be completed in 2015 – 2016. However, it should be borne in mind that the novelty of power plants and their technical complexity will require careful bench and flight tests. According to various estimates, the fifth-generation Russian fighter jets will see the new power units only in 2025 – 2027. The project of power plants includes several stages: the development of a low-pressure compressor, a gas generator, a high-pressure compressor, a combustion chamber, a high-pressure turbine, a low-pressure turbine, an afterburner, and a nozzle.

All these challenges, which are not officially confirmed, it can be overcome and the Russian government is aware of them. In any case, during the development and adoption of the State Weapons Program for 2011 – 2020, it was provided not only to finance the purchase and development of new weapons and military equipment in the amount of 20 trillion rubles, but also to conduct research and development, industrial complex and rejuvenation of personnel. In addition, it is planned to spend more than three trillion rubles on the last points before 2020. However, budget constraints that currently confront the Russian authorities, can make some adjustments to these plans.

But in general, the mood of the Russian authorities is encouraging. The positive factors include the greater openness of the authorities and, in particular, the military department on the state defense order, the provision of government loans and guarantees for the debt obligations of enterprises of the national defense industry and the willingness of direct financial participation in projects that are risky, but important for the country's defense.

In the meantime, the prospective Russian fighter aircraft (the Ministry of Defense has already acquired 60 aircraft, the Air Force’s need for T-50 vehicles is estimated at 150 – 200 units) little is known. Despite the fact that the PAK FA, starting with the MAX-2011, for three years performing public missions, the project is still classified. Unknown technical or flight characteristics of the promising machine.

Previously it was officially announced only that the fighter uses several stealth technologies, and composite materials are widely used in its design. The aircraft will be distinguished by high intellectualization of the board, will be able to take off and land on the runway with a length of 300 – 400 meters and perform combat missions in any weather and time of day. The Russian fighter will also be super-manoeuvrable and capable of cruising at supersonic speeds.

The main difference between the T-50 and other heavy fighters will be the presence of not only the main radar station, but also the rear and side active and passive radar radars. These systems will have to provide the fighter-round visibility. aircraft armament can hit airborne targets not only in front but also in the rear hemisphere. Obtain all the necessary information about the air situation T-50 pilots will be able to thanks to the new system of displaying data on the helmet display. The creation of such a system is engaged in research and production enterprise "Star". The new helmet for the system is developed on the basis of the protective helmet ZSh-10.

Fighters and UAVs of the sixth generation

It is curious that although the work on the project of the fifth generation fighter is still far from completion, the Russian enterprises of the military-industrial complex have already begun to create a sixth generation fighter. In any case, this in late August, said the former Russian Air Force Commander General of the Army Pyotr Deinekin. At the same time, he nevertheless noted that “we are unlikely to succeed in jumping through the generations,” which means that before entering the troops of the sixth generation Air Force planes, we will have to master the fifth. Test pilot Sergei Bogdan suggested that the creation of the sixth generation of combat aircraft will be completed no earlier than in 15 years. “It would seem that technologies are developing fast enough, but still from the fourth generation fighter to the fifth generation, 35 years passed,” Bogdan said, noting that despite the promising fighters becoming unmanned, manned aircraft will live for a long time. What will be the sixth-generation Russian fighter is still unknown. The US Department of Defense refers to the sixth generation of combat aircraft capable of flying without a pilot at hypersonic speed (more than five Machs, about 5,8 thousands of kilometers per hour), and also operate in areas with full or partial prohibition or restriction of maneuvers.

In addition to reports on the development of the sixth generation fighter, it is also interesting that Sukhoi is developing a heavy assault unmanned aerial vehicle, which will use the technologies of a promising aviation front-line aviation complex. This was at the air show "MAX-2013» in Zhukovsky said Mikhail Pogosyan, president of United Aircraft Corporation. The mass of the new shock drone will be about 20 tons.

It is possible that only the control system will be used in drones, composite materials, stealth technology and some of the technical solutions of the fuselage. Some experts suggested that Sukhoi would create a smaller unmanned version of the T-50 fighter, although the expediency of such a decision raises many questions. The mass of the empty T-50 is assumed to be 18 tons, and the maximum take-off is 37 tons. However, it is not yet known for what purposes such a large drone can be used and which weapon he will bear.

In case of successful implementation of the project of a drone drone, a Russian aircraft may become the heaviest percussion apparatus of this class in the world. For example, satellite-controlled MQ-1C Gray Eagle drums used by Americans can carry weapons and sensors with a total weight of up to 450 kilograms. The maximum take-off weight of such devices - 1,6 tons. Strategic intelligence apparatus RQ-4 Global Hawk, capable of operating at high altitude over 28 hours, weapons can not be held. Its maximum take-off weight is 14,6 tons. The Israeli drone drone Heron-TP (in the Israeli Air Force, it is in service under the symbol Eitan), comparable in size to the passenger aircraft Boeing 737, weighs only 4,7 tons. It can carry weapons and sensors total weight up to two tons, to be in the air 70 hours and to fly at speeds up 370 kilometers per hour.

Sukhoi is creating a drone drone under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense, signed in July 2012. The project involved the domestic aircraft manufacturing corporation "MiG", previously designed its own shock drone Scat. For the Russian military department, an attack drone weighing up to five tons and a reconnaissance weight of up to a ton is also being developed. The last two projects involved the company "Falcon" and "Transas".

As a result, we can say the following. The development of the fifth generation fighter is extremely important for Russia, not only because of the need to maintain the Air Force fleet at a high technological level. This project will allow you to get developments and technical solutions that will later form the basis for promising projects, including UAVs and sixth-generation fighters. It will also provide an opportunity to more actively promote domestic science and support the economy through the creation of jobs, as well as the export of new combat aircraft. According to Sukhoi, the demand of the world market for combat aircraft in fifth-generation Russian fighters is about 600 units. India will buy 200 from them as part of a joint FGFA project (creating a fighter for the Indian Ministry of Defense based on T-50), 200 - Russia, and the rest of the 200 aircraft will be supplied to third countries.
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  1. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 19 September 2013 08: 53 New
    12
    The United States did not discard the 90s back, and then they suffer from the F-22 and F-35.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 19 September 2013 09: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: ivshubarin
      then with F-22 and F-35 are tormented



    2. sanecc
      sanecc 20 September 2013 23: 06 New
      -1
      I wanted to hear from pro real and not about astral — it was smooth on paper and forgot about the ravines ...... but we all understand the real ....... no one is in the queue, and that would not draw on paper
  2. NC1982
    NC1982 19 September 2013 09: 22 New
    +7
    blah blah blah ... what is the article about? copied the rewritten, nothing new, alas ...
    1. Blinov_I
      Blinov_I 19 September 2013 11: 12 New
      -7
      You can add: Blah blah blah, everything is shitty as always, but don’t worry!
    2. Argon
      Argon 19 September 2013 11: 36 New
      +4
      The whole point of the article boils down to the saying “Dogs bark, but the caravan goes on” —the situation with the engine (generation 5) is somewhat alarming, the amers have already begun to “drive” the prototype for the “raptor,” but given our general backlog, it could not be otherwise. On the rhythmic work on the project as a whole, the participation of India allows me to hope, I mean financing. Regarding the timing of the adoption, in my opinion, it is not necessary to take seriously the statements of various "official" and not very persons. The political project is unprecedentedly open significance, it is a great temptation to "PR", to go out, so to speak, into the focus of media attention.
  3. ben gun
    ben gun 19 September 2013 09: 23 New
    +7
    It would be nice in the coming years to finish work on the engines, it’s really difficult. And then also the development of technology for manufacturing engines in factories. I remember for a long time technologists were tormented with the technology of manufacturing rotary nozzles for AL41, and then a completely new engine, and he needed to provide a resource and that's all))
    Good luck to developers and manufacturers!
    1. AVV
      AVV 19 September 2013 15: 59 New
      +4
      Most likely, because of the new engines, the adoption of a new aircraft is postponed !!! Hurry up to bring them to mind! But the aircraft should turn out competitive! You look there and the 6th generation aircraft will be rolled out for testing !!!
  4. Zerstorer
    Zerstorer 19 September 2013 09: 30 New
    +2
    In a normal design mode, engines, avionics, weapons are first implemented (embodied in metal), and only then are the complex (airplane) implemented as a whole. And it is better to bring to the stage of flight tests 2-3 competing prototypes. Example ATF program F-22 with F-119 engine and F-23 with F-120 engine.
    1. sergey158-29
      sergey158-29 19 September 2013 10: 42 New
      +1
      This campaign is “Russian amusement” - first make a “carrier” (Borey, T-50), and then bring a rocket to it - a Mace or an engine - Type 30 ... soldier
      1. bif
        bif 19 September 2013 20: 59 New
        +5
        This is called the refinement process .. and this is normal ... The mace flies, and the T-50 prototype, on which the other units are driven before being adopted ... what you described is typical for overseas "partners" - f-22, f-35 ... ALREADY hundreds of pieces have already been adopted ... and "childhood illnesses" are NOT HEALED yet and are becoming chronic
  5. USNik
    USNik 19 September 2013 10: 27 New
    +3
    Not too good news. I'm afraid that it is connected with the flooding of production capacities in Komsomolsk-on-Amur sad In general, the tendency to increase the terms of development and adoption of aircraft into service is alarming if piston equipment from WWII went from scratch to production in half a year or a year, post-war years 50-60 required 2-4 years, 4th generation (su27 mig29 f15 f16) delayed by 8-10 years, then f22 will soon celebrate its 25th anniversary, and it still has a sore car and a small cart ... So the 6th generation will generally require half a century? belay
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 11: 02 New
      15
      Quote: USNik
      In general, the tendency to increase the terms of development and adoption of aircraft into service is alarming

      As far as I remember, the statements of respected masters from aviation (and, first of all, Sergey VAF) were alarming for something else - cheerful statements that the aircraft will go into series in the 2015 year.
      If my sclerosis doesn’t lie to me, the pros claimed that in such a short period of time all the nuances should be worked out properly and the T-50 to be cured of all the "children's sores" is simply unrealistic. It was feared that due to “come on,” PAK FA would still get into the troops raw, and combat pilots would have to pay for it, as always.
      And now, as I understand it, a normalization process is taking place - the timing is getting reasonable, so the likelihood that the Air Force will receive a first-class and probably the best combat aircraft of its class in the world is higher than ever :)
      1. NC1982
        NC1982 19 September 2013 11: 47 New
        +4
        I have the same opinion, it’s not worth rushing in this matter, but for now it’s being honed, brought up and put into production, you can safely buy and commission 4+ generation airplanes, since we have them, from whom and how to produce them, all the more so that the same Su-35 is perhaps inferior to the F-22 in radar visibility, otherwise it does as a footcloth :)
      2. VAF
        VAF 19 September 2013 13: 24 New
        +8
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        If my sclerosis doesn’t lie to me,


        Hi Andrew! Why are you behaving like that .. "my sclerosis" wassat with what, but with this you don’t suffer at all! +! drinks

        Everything else .. you write ABSOLUTELY correctly! good
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2013 21: 11 New
          +3
          Sergey, I categorically welcome you! drinks
          And about sclerosis - so I'm joking laughing
    2. Deniska
      Deniska 19 September 2013 12: 51 New
      +1
      ))) Not all ingenious is simple)
    3. VAF
      VAF 19 September 2013 13: 16 New
      +5
      Quote: USNik
      Not too good news.


      Do not be “upset” and read less “any crap” from the “airspeed of the media” - this is just a statement about the fact that only on 4-ke is the full set of avionics installed and therefore it does not fly and it is protected ... puts this article in the category - "throw on the fan"!
      T-50-4 flew the whole MAX .. without taking it out! good

      Who told you that the runway, and even more so, the production capacities of KnAZ are flooded? belay
      The 22nd regiment regularly flies and stands on the database .. the plant is working according to its plan, and even more so this "flooding" is by no means connected with the progress and schedule of the LCI.

      This is not a “tendency” to increase terms .... but as Argon said correctly, one should not take statements seriously, well, etc. drinks

      Desire and report is one thing, but really do it .. it's quite another.
      so now more or less real terms are being voiced and then .... it would be possible to "lay down" in the direction of increasing these terms (I think so bully )
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 19 September 2013 16: 20 New
        0
        For once, I agree with Vaf.
        1. experienced
          experienced 19 September 2013 21: 07 New
          +4
          Quote: Avenger711
          For once, I agree with Vaf.

          Bugaga, now we will not see Serega (VAF) for a month, will celebrate drinks that the Avenger agreed with him wassat
  6. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 19 September 2013 11: 31 New
    0
    Quote: ben gun
    It would be nice in the coming years to finish work on the engines, it’s really difficult. And then also the development of technology for manufacturing engines in factories. I remember for a long time technologists were tormented with the technology of manufacturing rotary nozzles for AL41, and then a completely new engine, and he needed to provide a resource and that's all))
    Good luck to developers and manufacturers!

    Amers still have no engines with a variable thrust vector!
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 19 September 2013 16: 22 New
      +2
      For a flat nozzle, an all-angle motor cannot be made. There was already a choice between a flat and a round nozzle, but it is not so straightforward.
    2. Hariva
      Hariva 19 September 2013 21: 45 New
      +1
      A flat nozzle gives less noticeability in the thermal range. It’s not yet clear what is more important for a 5P fighter.
  7. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 19 September 2013 11: 38 New
    +2
    Wash the next generation it is time to transfer to engines that do not use oil fuel! And then this is just the development of jet aircraft!
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 19 September 2013 15: 11 New
      +1
      Ion engines are also jet engines. But for now, with the replacement of chemical fuels, it’s generally a problem when jet engines on elementary particles appear that can give traction, like modern rocket engines, then it will be possible to send a manned ship to Mars and, in principle, it may become possible to fly to the nearest stars for decades.
      1. ben gun
        ben gun 20 September 2013 11: 21 New
        0
        Yes. only here jet engines on elementary particles are unsuitable for flying the atmosphere, not? Not to mention the fact that it’s not pleasant to click on a geiger counter after accidentally falling under such a long exhaust from such an engine.
  8. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 19 September 2013 11: 50 New
    +4
    Difficulties are and will be, this is inevitable! The main thing is desire, skill and the ability to overcome them!
  9. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 19 September 2013 12: 07 New
    +3
    Even in Soviet times favorable for the development of aviation, the development, testing and implementation of new aviation equipment lasted for years. Russia's economic opportunities are not right now. Nowadays, given the problems in the economy, the training of qualified personnel, the limited funding opportunities, the timelines for commissioning aviation equipment are objectively lengthening. You just need to be patient. We will also have a new fleet of fifth-generation fighters!
  10. Yankuz
    Yankuz 19 September 2013 12: 48 New
    +2
    A very good film in two parts about the T-50:

    1. Hariva
      Hariva 19 September 2013 21: 32 New
      +2
      Amazing But as soon as the information about the power plant went, so immediately there were problems with the quality of the audio signal .... (from the 31st minute)
      "When using afterburner, the maximum speed will exceed 2 thousand ...." And that’s all, and then think for yourself))).
      1. Hariva
        Hariva 19 September 2013 21: 36 New
        +1
        Further, part of the text is generally cut out.
        I'm not looking for skeletons in closets. Just in connection with the above - written comments, as it is symbolic.
  11. Avenger711
    Avenger711 19 September 2013 16: 19 New
    +3
    If we recall the history, for the MiG-29 the chronology is as follows: 1969, competition, 1977, first flight, 1982 a series of 5 years passed from the first flight to the series, 1984 the machine stood on alert and that was 15 years old.
    The F-22 prototype, along with competitor YF-23, was presented in the 1990th, and the competition was announced in 1986 and only in 2006 the first part switched to F-22. Total 20 years. By analogy, we can assume that the combat unit on the T-50 will appear no earlier than 2020.
    The question is different, why deliberately unrealistic terms were called. Or it was just a substitution of concepts, they built several pre-production vehicles for FACE, and in the news they write that the aircraft were transferred to the Air Force. As with the Su-35, which seems to be both the serial and the first aircraft delivered in 2011, but the first squadron can not be re-equipped in the troops until 2014. Although, say in 2010 that they’ll have something in 10 years, the people are all he will be equally dissatisfied and will remember that during the war they developed SU-152 in 25 days.

    Regarding the engines, the mass of AL-41F1S is 1520 kg according to the pedivics, with a thrust of 14500 kgf, suppose that AL-41F1 has the same mass with a thrust of 15000 kgf. The Raptor F119 has a thrust of 15900 kgf with a mass of 1770 kg. That is, the motor is stupidly somewhat larger and, in principle, it is an engine of the same level as the AL-41. I don’t see any questions of what craving it is to discuss, most likely, a stand at the maximum afterburner for all motors, that's why advertising. And the T-50 itself is said to be lighter than the F-22. The urgent need for engines of the "second stage" is not very visible here, especially since the prospects of the F-22 itself are very vague. It is also interesting how much these engines really surpass existing ones that have almost reached the technological ceiling. From an increase in gas temperature by another fifty degrees, thrust will not increase significantly. The percent here will total the growth of interest by 5-10, at best by 15.
    1. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn 19 September 2013 17: 48 New
      +1
      The complexity of technology is increasing, for example, if before the tank was constructed within 5 years, how much is Armata being tortured now? 15 years old? almost like the MiG 29 that you cited as an example. This must be understood by everyone, no matter how we live in the 21st century.
  12. vadim dok
    vadim dok 19 September 2013 21: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: Prapor Afonya
    Amers still have no engines with a variable thrust vector!

    Who told you this? The Americans have one!
    1. Truth-lover
      Truth-lover 19 September 2013 21: 53 New
      +3
      In the "series" only one that is able to change the vector only in the vertical plane.
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 20 September 2013 07: 30 New
        0
        and f-35? Does he seem to be in all planes?
        1. Truth-lover
          Truth-lover 20 September 2013 21: 36 New
          +1
          And f35 in already in the "series" launched ???
  13. Ev58
    Ev58 20 September 2013 10: 05 New
    +3
    I have been working in the aviation instrument industry since 1979. In the so-called "Soviet" time did not count money for development and modernization, since there were several projects to modernize one side at the same time, many of which, after checking as part of the facility, were "buried" and the people’s money buried "buried" in the ground. Now everything seems to count money and this leads to other distortions: the customer wants to get a costume from Versace at the prices of the Trinity market. In addition, there was a clear tendency towards customer requests such as: "Offer, and we will consider." Forgive me, as applied to the military-industrial complex, this is not just short-sightedness, misunderstanding, but a frank reluctance to participate in the development of the industry and engage the only correct and well-established cycle of development work. The desire to "quickly" and "cheaper" cuts off the process of promising developments and returns the final product of BO to the level of modernization of existing developments. The lack of the necessary spectrum of domestic EIS, materials and coatings allowed for use by the MOS list limits the capabilities of the hardware developer, often confronting the dilemma: to import, but to provide the required characteristics or abandon development, since it is impossible to satisfy customer requirements for output parameters and specified mass overall indicators on the domestic element base. A very large part of the production capacity of the military-industrial complex, as is known, after the collapse of the USSR, has become a "foreign" potential. The domestic defense industry had to go through a very difficult period. Now the situation is changing significantly and the statements that everything is bad are at least unfounded. It is sometimes worthwhile to think about what it cost the state to maintain the country's defense capabilities. Yes, there is a technological lag and a lag in the production capabilities of the military-industrial complex, but now the dead zone has already been passed and we need to calmly solve current problems and think about tomorrow.
    1. novik-rif
      novik-rif 20 September 2013 12: 50 New
      0
      I am afraid that there may not be enough time and I doubt very much that the future will be calm and bright ...
  14. Bagatur
    Bagatur 20 September 2013 15: 54 New
    0
    But why not conceive of making a single-engine, easy fighter? It will perfectly complement the T-5 - .. and it will be cheaper ... then you can buy them more ... unless in the war and quantity is also important ...
  15. sanecc
    sanecc 20 September 2013 23: 01 New
    0
    dassssssssssss- and on paper everything is beautiful, but only in real guards
    1. sergey123
      sergey123 26 September 2013 02: 48 New
      0
      who the guard at the author of the article may be
  16. sergey123
    sergey123 26 September 2013 02: 46 New
    0
    the article is clearly custom-made since there aren’t any problems with the T-50 but there is a normal workflow on a very complex project