Military Review

Shoigu: military registration and enlistment offices are no longer chasing draft diversions

125
Shoigu: military registration and enlistment offices are no longer chasing draft diversionsThe head of the Russian Ministry of Defense Sergei Shoigu said that the number of conscripts in the Russian army from next year will begin to decline by tens of thousands of people due to the replenishment of the army with contract servicemen, Interfax reports.


"We have recruits only where we need to prepare a mobilization reserve, and this is an important component of our approach. We finish the calculations, as far as we reduce the number of recruits. I can say by a lot. I think we can name the final figure in November but trust me - these are tens of thousands, "said Shoigu.

The Minister of Defense also stressed that the agency "ceases to chase" the number of conscripts and "catch" them at the military registration and enlistment offices.

“Whether we want it or not, but the army must become a contract, or we must recruit conscripts for at least five years. The complexity of the weapon systems is such that we will not prepare the draftee for at least a year, even for two so that he can fight on this weapons"- emphasized Shoigu.
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  1. Apollo
    Apollo 18 September 2013 08: 12 New
    49
    quote-The complexity of weapons systems is such that we won’t prepare a draftee for at least a year, at least two, so that he could fight on these weapons, ”Shoigu emphasized.

    it’s absolutely true, but at the same time, in my opinion, I think I’ll significantly increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.
    1. 225chay
      225chay 18 September 2013 08: 24 New
      45
      Quote: Apollon
      I think in my opinion at times to increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.

      The bureaucracy should be reduced dozens of times, and not only in the Ministry of Defense, but throughout Russia. Nakhlebnikov will soon be more than producers of hard workers with peasants
      1. Letnab
        Letnab 18 September 2013 08: 36 New
        24
        interestingly, more and more documents are being made using computers, and paper circulation is still growing wildly ... And every bureaucrat considers it important to come up with something new for himself, as a result of an increase in the volume of work and an increase in the number of officials.
        1. svp67
          svp67 18 September 2013 09: 07 New
          +7
          Quote: Letnab
          interestingly, more and more documents are being made using computers, and paper flow is still growing frantically ...

          You simply do not know the popular wisdom - "Why do you need a computer - in order to print a bunch of unnecessary papers ..."
          1. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 18 September 2013 21: 22 New
            +1
            hi
            In my opinion, it somehow sounds "not comfortable" - the contract soldiers, under the contract.
            The Russian soldier differs from the mercenary within the meaning of the service.
            The Russian Army is not a Foreign Legion!
            There is a phrase - a career officer.
            Therefore, here it is more correct, as it seems to me personally, and it will sound professionally - personnel, personnel.
            Private / sergeant of the frame sounds quite worthy! Not?

        2. astra
          astra 18 September 2013 09: 20 New
          21
          and "catch" them on the draft board

          You won’t have to catch it, even if you extend the service life to 3 years if you issue a civil passport after being demobilized from the army, the mowers don’t have to give out passports at all, thereby depriving them of citizenship and rights. draftees under the control of the FSB. Here then, from those who want to serve, there will be no end.
          1. No_more
            No_more 18 September 2013 12: 56 New
            +3
            Can shoot right away? Why do you need such a huge army of beggars? Now it’s normal to ensure that one soldier costs very good money. It must be admitted that the cost-effectiveness ratio of professional military is several times better. Not for nothing that they left the slave system, turned out to be a professional involved in the business of their personal choice much more efficiently hundreds of those who were forced to do anything by force.
            1. the polar
              the polar 18 September 2013 13: 30 New
              +7
              Quote: No_more
              Can shoot right away? Why do you need such a huge army of Holodroots?

              Crap that do not fool. Give an example of which army "the cost / effectiveness ratio of a professional military is much better."
              For your information, the main expenses in the army are not for maintaining personnel, but for maintaining the military-technical and scientific-educational infrastructure, for arming and conducting exercises, and for capital construction.
              For your information, a “contract army” is an army of mercenaries that fights “under a contract” for money, not for their homeland, and its maintenance is several times more expensive than a “draft” army.
              So do not meddle with the "democracy" in the army
              1. No_more
                No_more 18 September 2013 16: 41 New
                +1
                I am for mutual respect and can not stand when they use such words in relation to me. For this, put a minus. I hope that this can be taken with understand.
                And according to the remark, I want to say that I doubt that the costs of "maintaining the military-technical and scientific-educational infrastructure" are somehow increasing for a professional army, especially since it is possible to save on the training of professional military, because to learn every year from scratch 100 who do not want to study for 10 years is much more expensive than keeping the same hundred professionals for 10 years. And the costs of “arming and conducting exercises, for capital construction” almost directly depend on the size of the armed forces.
                With the approach that “a“ contract army ”is an army of mercenaries that fights“ on a contract basis “for money, not for the homeland,” I can recall that now officers are also paid salaries, there are military pensions and this does not prevent them from loving their homeland. I believe that any work should be paid and everyone should do their own thing.
                1. the polar
                  the polar 18 September 2013 17: 36 New
                  +2
                  Quote: No_more

                  And according to the remark, I want to say that I doubt

                  If you doubt it, then you don’t know anything on the topic, otherwise you would first ask yourself what types of weapons you can entrust to a contractor, and what position, let’s say in the Air Force, Strategic Rocket Forces, Radio Engineering Troops, Navy, he can hold, and what kind of education he needs for this need it. And then discussions about "conscripts-contractors" would have continued

                  In general, the Minister of Defense, who declares that army equipment is so complicated today that it cannot be mastered by conscripts in a year, it’s necessary to kick such a minister away from the army, directly to Khakassia, by grazing sheep.
                  1. grafrozow
                    grafrozow 18 September 2013 19: 24 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Polar

                    In general, the Minister of Defense, who declares that army equipment is so complicated today that it cannot be mastered by conscripts in a year, it’s necessary to kick such a minister away from the army, directly to Khakassia, by grazing sheep.
                    Are you aware that no one has yet shot down the F-16 from a slingshot? And how much time does it take to prepare a cool tablet player, not to mention the radar operator ... And you would have to throw all the hats, I'm sorry. hi
                    1. CTEPX
                      CTEPX 18 September 2013 20: 59 New
                      +1
                      Quote: grafrozow
                      And how much time is needed to prepare a cool tablet player, not to mention the radar operator ...

                      Two, with a little, months)). But ... If a fighter is physically developed and has a concept of conscious discipline and teamwork.
                      It is enough that the sergeant was, as a rule, a contract soldier, and the conscripts, in a game or in serious form, would prepare for service in the armed forces for a couple of years. In civilian life)).
                      And, which is characteristic, a serious struggle is waged against this simple maxim. Since Soviet times. A miner is the Ministry of Defense)).
                      1. grafrozow
                        grafrozow 18 September 2013 23: 35 New
                        +1
                        Quote: ctepx
                        Two, with a little, months)). But ... If a fighter is physically developed and has a concept of conscious discipline and teamwork.
                        Oleg, anti-aircraft defense is not a construction battalion, you do not need muscles, but brains, and not everyone is able to carry out 30 goals at the same time, namely the master will sound arrogant, but it is.
                      2. CTEPX
                        CTEPX 19 September 2013 09: 02 New
                        0
                        Quote: grafrozow
                        Oleg, air defense is not a construction battalion

                        Alexander, the key word is here
                        Quote: grafrozow
                        pursue 30 goals simultaneously not everyone is capable

                        Absolutely agree)). He served urgently just in the air defense)).
                        But if a person is capable, then 2-2,5 months of training is enough for posts that trust conscripts)). In more important places, as already noted, contract soldiers (in my time - warrant officers) and officers)).
                      3. grafrozow
                        grafrozow 20 September 2013 18: 13 New
                        +1
                        Quote: ctepx
                        )). He served urgently just in the air defense)).
                        51 orb 1t 140 digits per minute. P15 "Dzhigit." And there was still "armor" -600km radius.
                      4. CTEPX
                        CTEPX 26 September 2013 20: 15 New
                        0
                        Quote: grafrozow
                        140 digits per minute

                        AND? It is impossible for 2,5 months. to prepare a ABLE young conscript up to 140 characters?)).
              2. Debryansk
                Debryansk 18 September 2013 21: 07 New
                +2
                Sorry, only tablet players in the army
                and radar operators are needed, there are also security companies, RMO companies, etc. There is no need for long-term training in such units. But if you create an effective training system, you will not need to be trained for 5 years.
                1. grafrozow
                  grafrozow 20 September 2013 19: 56 New
                  0
                  Quote: Debryansk
                  Sorry, only tablet players in the army
                  and radar operators are needed,
                  In the air defense did not take conscripts from the Caucasus, diction interfered.
            2. alone
              alone 18 September 2013 19: 51 New
              +4
              You know, to be honest, the level of knowledge of conscripts is getting worse and worse every year.
              people do not distinguish where the north is, where the south. Do you think you can immediately teach these modern military technologies?
              1. CTEPX
                CTEPX 18 September 2013 21: 02 New
                0
                Quote: lonely
                , the level of knowledge of draftees is getting worse and worse every year.

                Your untruth)).
                Deadline (three years) level Knowledge draftees rises)).
              2. grafrozow
                grafrozow 20 September 2013 19: 58 New
                0
                Quote: lonely
                You know, to be honest, the level of knowledge of conscripts is getting worse and worse every year.
                people do not distinguish where the north is, where the south. Do you think you can immediately teach these modern military technologies?
                So they still believe that we have penguins in the city.
            3. max702
              max702 18 September 2013 20: 43 New
              +5
              Yes, you rave galleries? Normal turner, locksmith. a welder, a carpenter. plumber, you can’t be trained in five years in a year, maybe even not personally, do you know a lot of specialists in your field? And for you it turns out that military science is complete garbage and modern technology about the complexity of which the military buzzed all the ears no more than a broom and a shovel? HOW can you trust an 18-year-old green youth to a technician worth several million cu? Moreover, he will not carry out work on the manufacture of any products, but will be engaged in the most responsible business, namely the protection of our lives! let's say you are the director of an enterprise and an 18-year-old boy will come to work for you after school. What will you put him at the machine after a month of two studies? Yeah, right now, he’ll be going to your place for a year. Go away. Don’t bother, and only after looking at him and making sure that he is not full, trust the simplest and most responsible, but why? And because it’s your own and your well-being depends on it! Duck, our overall well-being depends on the availability of specialists and professionals in the army. And about the expensive, let's estimate how many expensive equipment resources and other things can be crushed by the hands of “inexpensive” conscripts? I'm afraid if everything is counted on two contract armies, that's enough.
              1. CTEPX
                CTEPX 18 September 2013 21: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: max702
                Normal turner, locksmith. a welder, a carpenter. plumbing, in a year you can’t train

                Respected)). We are not talking about repair or manufacturing equipment)). And about its users)). At the TV remote control level)).
                Taking into account military specifics, an advanced user should have military honor, the concept of military duty. and have standard soldier skills and abilities)).
                1. max702
                  max702 20 September 2013 00: 02 New
                  +2
                  Do you seriously think that military equipment is at the level of the TV remote control? Bravo! But an advanced user is already a pro like it, and he spent quite a lot of time on advancement quite probably not a year or two (actually 3-5), so we came to the answer that there should be a professional in the army who spent on training 3 -5 years and not gone kudato (demobilization), but remaining in its place.
                2. grafrozow
                  grafrozow 20 September 2013 20: 06 New
                  +1
                  Quote: max702
                  Do you seriously think that military equipment is at the level of the TV remote control? Bravo! A
                  +++ Maxim, don’t tear your heart, these "patriots" of the enemy will shower their hats.
                3. CTEPX
                  CTEPX 26 September 2013 19: 20 New
                  0
                  Quote: max702
                  Do you seriously think that military equipment is at the level of the TV remote control? Bravo!

                  Do not distort, dear)).
                  I believe that if military equipment is at the TV level, then its management is at the level of controlling the remote control from the TV)).
            4. Debryansk
              Debryansk 19 September 2013 01: 01 New
              0
              Max 702 is it you rave - you can study for 5 years, you can study for 10 years, and then don’t know how to turn on the machine, write about your experience? My experience as an employer shows that it’s not age, but as a training, we’ll start the majority of employers save. I think that min. It will also do this, and then they will scream about long periods of training and other reasons to purchase equipment more simply. Create an effective training system without saving on this. The teaching staff should be highly qualified. Here is the solution to the problem.
              1. max702
                max702 20 September 2013 00: 16 New
                -1
                So you are an employer, great !! And then they stood behind the machine? It seems to me no, because then they would not have carried the blizzard, but there are especially talented people who have mastered the profession in two years, and even if you are lucky with teachers, but far from all aspects, did you serve in the army? Have you been trained by a highly talented teaching staff? Where will you get so many unique people? It would be necessary to create, it would be necessary to organize .. one would .. look into reality there will not be this and will not happen, if in the Soviet times they couldn’t just now not really.
              2. Debryansk
                Debryansk 21 September 2013 19: 01 New
                +2
                I am writing a max 702 for you not very gifted. I am a master of stone processing, I worked on various polishing and sawing machines, as well as on very expensive equipment for cutting various profiles and so on. Work experience in hazardous production is 8 years. I studied at production, the training period is 3 years, to become a master of manual stone processing is the most difficult. It’s much easier to learn on machines. I’m gaining only in my own production without work experience, I train according to my own program, the training period has been reduced to one year. Therefore, when it’s impossible for me to speak, I answer nonsense. I served in the army, training in Tajikistan, then Ussuriysk separate battalion special purpose, OSSN airborne forces. It is not necessary to create a problem that the army should be treated not according to the residual principle, but as a priority business, and the people who will be created should not be random, but specialized specialists, and most importantly, effective managers should not interfere with them.
      2. astra
        astra 18 September 2013 19: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: No_more
        I am for mutual respect and cannot stand when they use such words in relation to me

        That is, I guessed - you did not serve in the army, since you did not like my words not to issue full-fledged passports to the mowers.
        Quote: No_more
        For this, put a minus. I hope that this can be taken with understand.

        Catch my minus, I also hope for understanding)))
        I repeat to have and maintain an army of professionals in return for draftees, not really! money is not enough and then in case of war they will sooner or later die, by whom will you replace them? recruits who did not serve in the army? And the population drafted in the event of a war has a little bit of experience in the army, hence the losses will be less, and the experience of fighting will be gained as you serve.
      3. Vyalik
        Vyalik 22 September 2013 13: 15 New
        0
        No_more
        A professional army is certainly good. But what if, God forbid, war be? The losses of the army will be big, but who will replace the contract soldiers then?
        Those who don’t know how to disassemble the machine? In my opinion, there should be an army of professionals and those who can at least partially replace them. In Russia, there has always been a training system for soldiers, so we need to revive it.
    2. grafrozow
      grafrozow 18 September 2013 16: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Polar
      For your information, a “contract army” is an army of mercenaries that fights “under a contract” for money, not for their homeland, and its maintenance is several times more expensive than a “draft” army.
      So do not meddle with the "democracy" in the army

      You - do not confuse contractors with the "foreign legion"
      Quote: Polar
      For your information, the main expenses in the army are not for maintaining personnel, but for maintaining the military-technical and scientific-educational infrastructure, for arming and conducting exercises, and for capital construction.
      You forgot to add the “content” of the women's battalion, that's where the effective investment is! In general, do not write nonsense, we all served and we know where the ears grow from. I would like to see your personal meeting with our contractors, especially its completion wassat
    3. SHOCK.
      SHOCK. 18 September 2013 17: 01 New
      +7
      Professionals, that is, “contractors” do not need to be called the word “mercenaries”, these are incompatible concepts. During the Second World War, our soldiers were paid for destroyed equipment, the live power of a drunkard. If you think, they were mercenaries. I think you're wrong .Each labor must be paid, but heavy, military, especially. The contract should stipulate everything, including payments to the family, and payments to the soldier himself in case of injury. The contracted, i.e. professional army should be in Russia. send 18 year old boys for slaughter.
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 18 September 2013 21: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Sh.O.K.
        During the Second World War, our fighters were paid for destroyed equipment, manpower of the drunkard

        It seems not a lie. There were facts)). How much, interestingly, did each Fritz have? And muck and rushing.
        The whole contract army in Russia is the dream of our geopolitical "friends."
        But, Shoigu, thank God, did not say that.
        And 18-year-old boys should not be sent for slaughter. It is necessary to prepare and arm them in this way)).
  2. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 18 September 2013 17: 14 New
    +4
    Quote: No_more
    a professional business man of his own choice is much more effective than hundreds of those who were forced to do something by force.


    I apologize in advance, but I can’t even suggest a more stupid conclusion. Yes, a mercenary can know and be able to significantly more than a conscript. But a mercenary is not a patriot. He is a money-grubber, a consumer of national welfare. The draftees carried the war in Chechnya. Mercenary, i.e. contractor - came to the army to earn money. Ask any of them. Call them patriots - the majority will consider that you insulted them. You obviously didn’t serve in the army. And you wouldn’t say that. Many contract soldiers boast of their “skills”. Look down at the draftees, and even at the young officers. Although there are decent people among them. Mercenaries can serve under any flag.
    Unlike Russian citizens, a foreigner does not swear allegiance to Russia and does not undertake to "courageously defend the freedom, independence and constitutional system of Russia." He undertakes only to comply with the Constitution, "to fulfill military duty with dignity" and "to fulfill the orders of commanders." And who will protect the homeland?
    1. Gur
      Gur 18 September 2013 17: 32 New
      +2
      In general, this is a very controversial issue, but at least the army should be combined and contract soldiers and draftees, and still all officers receive a salary, all officers are contract soldiers and what do you want to say that among officers there are no heroes if a person defends his homeland it doesn’t mean that he should be a beggar? earn decent money and I’m sure that most of them will give their lives for their homeland. Glory to the soldiers of Russia
      1. AleksUkr
        AleksUkr 19 September 2013 16: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Gur
        and yet all officers receive a salary, all contract service officers and what do you want to say that among the officers there are no heroes if a person defends his homeland this does not mean that he should be a beggar


        PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE GOD'S GIFT WITH OVARIES. I do not take officers into account. Yes, they are all contract soldiers. Mostly, they chose their own destiny themselves. But even among them there are different ones. In service they cannot be distinguished from a soldier - money-grubber. After all, the MARKET is all around. And this often draws, unfortunately, enough sober people. And we are able to throw all the slogans.
        Yes, by the way, I asked you - did you serve in the Army! I didn’t receive a response. CONCLUSION: DON’T SERVE. And IF YOU DON’T SERVICE, THEN, AND MAKE SURE TO CONCLUSIONS BEWARE!
    2. Gur
      Gur 18 September 2013 17: 35 New
      +2
      And turn 18 year old guys are big CHILDREN and they can be trained to train but not sent to battle.
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 18 September 2013 21: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: Gur
        18 year old guys are big CHILDREN and they can be trained to train but not sent to battle.

        Demagogy)). At the level: every mother should know where and in what conditions her son serves)). If you still do not receive a grant salary, please hurry. As far as I know, there is a significant competition)).
  3. astra
    astra 18 September 2013 19: 54 New
    +2
    Quote: No_more
    Can shoot right away? Why do you need such a huge army of beggars? Now it’s normal to ensure that one soldier costs very good money. It must be admitted that the cost-effectiveness ratio of professional military is several times better. Not for nothing that they left the slave system, turned out to be a professional involved in the business of their personal choice much more efficiently hundreds of those who were forced to do anything by force.

    And what are you so excited about? Are you a deviator, since you so zealously defend the rights of mowers. In my quote, I urged not to give citizenship to mowers because I consider them cowards and traitors since they did not pay back their debt to their homeland, thereby signing for the future that in case of war they would do everything possible just not to go to the war.
    Where did you see in my comments that I advocated only for the army on the draft, instead of a professional. That you stick a gag.
    Since I touched on the subject of conscripts and professionals, so I will ask you a question - in the event of war, the most militant, sturdy, and brave units who don’t run and stand to death are usually knocked out during the first period of war. a professional army, without conscription, it follows that conscripts who didn’t hold arms at all click once, they will have to study during the war. Remember the story-there were almost no old soldiers left by the middle of the Great Patriotic War, the population, adolescents were calling, the losses were big. So you need to keep a compulsory appeal, and attract professionals.
  4. Fofan
    Fofan 18 September 2013 20: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: No_more
    Can shoot right away? Why do you need such a huge army of beggars? Now it’s normal to ensure that one soldier costs very good money. It must be admitted that the cost-effectiveness ratio of professional military is several times better. Not for nothing that they left the slave system, turned out to be a professional involved in the business of their personal choice much more efficiently hundreds of those who were forced to do anything by force.
    The Swiss army is one of the strongest in Europe. 90% of recruits. no natural resources.
    1. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 20: 32 New
      +2
      The Swiss army is one of the strongest in Europe.

      Who told you that? They have not fought for hundreds of years, preferring to maintain neutrality with everyone, cheese, darling, bank frauds here and they are the strongest in geyrop.
  • mirag2
    mirag2 18 September 2013 17: 49 New
    +1
    Brilliant!
  • jasper
    jasper 18 September 2013 10: 55 New
    0
    but I agree with that
  • RBLip
    RBLip 18 September 2013 11: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: Letnab
    and all the same paper flow grows furiously

    But how will the Russian post survive without this? By the way, I read somewhere that the postman profession is dying.
  • Gato
    Gato 18 September 2013 11: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: Letnab
    And each bureaucrat considers it important to come up with something new for himself, as a result of an increase in the volume of work, and an increase in the number of officials.

    So Murphy’s laws have not yet been denied.
  • Just
    Just 18 September 2013 12: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: Letnab
    interestingly, more and more documents are being made using computers, and paper circulation is still growing wildly ... And every bureaucrat considers it important to come up with something new for himself, as a result of an increase in the volume of work and an increase in the number of officials.


    Another lie, designed for illiterate hamsters.
    In fact, the federal workflow is being accelerated into electronic form.
    1. roial
      roial 18 September 2013 13: 23 New
      +3
      Another lie, designed for illiterate hamsters.
      In fact, the federal workflow is being accelerated into electronic form.


      Here are just the original document MUST BE printed, signed and sewn into the case. Or do you want to say that you have a digital signature implemented ??? So no need to breed hamsters laughing
    2. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 19 September 2013 16: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Simpleton
      designed for illiterate hamsters.


      Tell me - who do you think is a hamster? Too often they have begun to use the name of this beautiful animal. OFFEND IT! Au-defenders of nature! THERE IS A REASON TO TAKE ACTION!
  • alone
    alone 18 September 2013 19: 48 New
    +3
    Quote: Letnab
    interestingly, more and more documents are being made using computers, and paper circulation is still growing wildly ... And every bureaucrat considers it important to come up with something new for himself, as a result of an increase in the volume of work and an increase in the number of officials.


    Alexei, you know that the more papers, the more those who have to put a signature. And you have to pay for a signature. Thus, officials create a feeder for themselves))
    1. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 19 September 2013 16: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: lonely
      the more those who must sign.

      SERDYUKOV SAID THAT HE PUT 7000 signatures per day. CAN HE SO TAKE BILLIONS FOR HIS BLACK WORK? RELEASE IT FROM RESPONSIBILITY AND EVEN PAY UP !!!!!!
  • dmit-xnumx
    dmit-xnumx 19 September 2013 08: 04 New
    +1
    - there is the "Parkinson's Law" written by Norkot Parkinson, where he is very witty and evil describes the bureaucratic "evolution" ("The official produces the official"). The first version, published by "Foreign Literature" around the 70s, had a paragraph: in World War II, the author served in the intelligence of the British Air Force and - one - was engaged in decoding the results of aerial photography. Somehow, after a feast break on the occasion of the holiday, he (from a hangover!) Filed a report on the allocation of an assistant to him .., by the end of the war, under his command there were about 10 people doing the same work that he alone (! ) ...
  • theadenter
    theadenter 18 September 2013 10: 30 New
    +3
    Who is so easy to cut back from the bread place?
  • jasper
    jasper 18 September 2013 10: 54 New
    +3
    what a pity. h then everyone who knows how to manage the state already works as taxi drivers and hairdressers hi no offense but such assertions look, to put it mildly funny
    1. max702
      max702 18 September 2013 20: 02 New
      +1
      Yeah, they let a smart and honest person go there, if they let them go with blood, money and other shit, they tie them up and if they don’t bother, they’ll throw them in the trash right away without waiting for the big man to become. there as in Mowgli WE are of the same blood! You and I. There are no others there. and this is the most stringent rule. Won Evdokimov tried and how did he end? And how many we don’t know? Personally, I know such a story, the trade union organizer at our factory decided to fight for the rights of workers .. well, we arrived home, they twisted me, they took me to the hospital for two days under a dropper, and I signed everything as nice, and I was very glad that I wasn’t disabled I stayed drinking only right now, people with power have a lot of levers to break anyone, but they won't break it, they’ll bury and all is not in debt ..
      1. Gato
        Gato 18 September 2013 23: 02 New
        0
        Quote: max702
        Yeah, they let a smart and honest person go there, if they let them go with blood, money and other shit, they tie them up and if they don’t bother, they’ll throw them in the trash right away without waiting for the big man to become.

        So we are not children, everyone knows that only the organization can fight the ORGANIZATION. We leave the bad stories about the loner who defeats the system for Hollywood. The thing is that in the process of struggle, initially “smart and honest” cannot but turn into the likeness of those with whom they are fighting. Well, "... they fought with dragons too long become dragons themselves" (C) I don’t remember who said
  • RBLip
    RBLip 18 September 2013 11: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: 225chay
    The bureaucracy must be reduced dozens of times, and not only in the Ministry of Defense,

    moreover, it is desirable to reduce by shooting with confiscation.
  • woker
    woker 18 September 2013 14: 12 New
    +2
    completely incompetent statement, first find out the powers of state bodies, their functions and tasks, then divide by the number of "officials", look into the salary, and think: Are you ready to go work as an official ??? for 25-30 rubles. with such a volume of work. but the leaders of this large company who receive from 100 sput. rub. only from the budget, not counting kickbacks, it is really 5 percent, and you can’t reduce them anyway, edrosia steers. And if you think that ordinary advisers and consultants are parasites, then you are a person far from life, according to the effectiveness criterion, one adviser exceeds a mechanic of 6th category by 35 times, learn the mat. part and do not translate the negativity of a small number of grabbers and thieves on all civil servants. I just left the state agency as soon as I did because of the low salary for the amount I performed, but about kickbacks, do not tell me.
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 18 September 2013 17: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: woker
      , then you are a person far from life, according to the efficiency criterion, one adviser exceeds the locksmith of the 6th category by 35 times,
      You are far from life, you can build a dam on the Amur from advisers, but you are tormented to look for a real locksmith of the 6th category, and it is not a fact that he still wants to talk to you. hi
    2. grafrozow
      grafrozow 18 September 2013 17: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: Sh.O.K.
      .Contracted i.e.professional army should be in Russia
      Why argue? Woker from "left the state agency", for such problems of the army, as well as the problems of the exploration of Mars, are solved easily and simply, the usual office plankton.
  • Garrin
    Garrin 18 September 2013 16: 29 New
    +3
    Quote: 225chay
    The bureaucracy should be reduced dozens of times, and not only in the Ministry of Defense, but throughout Russia. Nakhlebnikov will soon be more than producers of hard workers with peasants

    And besides the bureaucracy there are inexhaustible reserves. Never paid attention, how many private security companies we divorced? Where grandmothers used to sit - “God's dandelions”, now they are sitting foreheads, which are needed in the army, in the police, in the mine, but they sit as watchmen. By the way, grandmothers better dragged the service, more responsibly. And those who have a piglet beaten on their forehead can sit half-asleep, half-drunk in all schools, kindergartens, polyclinics and hospitals. It used to be called a watchman, now a guard. But what the hell is a guard, if you bark louder, then he will crawl under the table.
    1. Doctor Evil
      Doctor Evil 18 September 2013 19: 29 New
      +2
      Igor, you are right. Although we do not have private security companies, but LLCs, military enlistment offices are paying more and more attention. With checks often. The reserve is hoo. If there is a war, we will go to the front in our UAZs with service weapons.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • novobranets
    novobranets 26 September 2013 19: 28 New
    0
    Quote: 225chay
    There will soon be more freeloaders than manufacturers

    Take a look, today, one with a bipod, seven with a spoon.
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 18 September 2013 08: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: Apollon
    it’s absolutely true, but at the same time, in my opinion, I think I’ll significantly increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.


    you (+), only probably not officials, but still gentlemen from the General Staff, the generals are not much cheaper than the budget, and they steal not less than amicable.
  • Lockbase170
    Lockbase170 18 September 2013 08: 36 New
    +2
    Absolutely to the point .. You can’t cancel the general military duty, but you need to take pros for the profession with the appropriate motivation and creation of an environment for a successful social sphere ..
  • military
    military 18 September 2013 09: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: Apollon
    it’s absolutely true, but at the same time, in my opinion, I think I’ll significantly increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.

    it is necessary to adjust not only the payment of double basses, but also the entire army monetary support system ... with all its thuy heap of numerous allowances and bonuses ...
  • jasper
    jasper 18 September 2013 10: 53 New
    +1
    or we must recruit recruits for at least five years.

    and give those who served the exclusive rights to free education, work in the police, the prosecutor’s office, don’t do shtafs there
  • Corsair
    Corsair 18 September 2013 11: 33 New
    +1
    Quote: Apollon
    quote-The complexity of weapons systems is such that we won’t prepare a draftee for at least a year, at least two, so that he could fight on these weapons, ”Shoigu emphasized.

    it’s absolutely true, but at the same time, in my opinion, I think I’ll significantly increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.


    It is necessary to struggle with the dominance of the “bureaucratic apparatus”, but I strongly disagree with the statement “it is impossible to prepare”.
    Even if Shoigu’s statement is true, it turns out that they don’t know how to prepare specialists, or they call for complete (excuse me!) Idiots.

    Moreover, in the first and second cases, the fault of MO ...
    1. No_more
      No_more 18 September 2013 13: 01 New
      +1
      No, all right, says Shoigu. After all, if a person does not want to serve, you can’t teach him with a rocket to hit a target in 10 years. And if you remember that half of the contractor’s cost will be spent on it, it will become clear how white the day the legs grow from this initiative. Banal price / performance ratio.
  • kris
    kris 18 September 2013 12: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Apollon
    by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.

    so big and believe in fairy tales. and where will they attach the younger grandchildren and other relatives?
    during Putin’s reign, the number of officials has increased almost 2 times.
  • the polar
    the polar 18 September 2013 13: 35 New
    +4
    Absolutely not true. The problem of today's Russia is that it is not run by professionals, but officials who have come up from nowhere, with a dark labor biography.
    So the army was first controlled by a furniture dealer, then a rescue plasterer, hence the outlandish “reforms” with unpredictable consequences.
  • alx104
    alx104 18 September 2013 20: 56 New
    +1
    Maybe in the General Staff and the apparatus is inflated, but there is a shortage of staff in the troops. And to be equipped with contract soldiers is also an issue. We have a poor country. Not really things, not new technology. cars for 10-15 years. Do not forget about the circumcised states, the contractor has 7-9 outfits per month, if the conscripts were easier
  • user
    user 18 September 2013 21: 58 New
    +1
    I hear this nonsense about the transition to a contractual basis .... for many years. Everyone who tries to PR, Shoigu is no exception, considers it his duty to dwell on this issue. I agree that with such a service life, it is not possible to prepare a specialist.
    Just let someone answer two questions, in the current state of the economy, where to get the money, maybe due to rearmament. and the second question in the event of war (not a local conflict or counter-terrorist operation) where to get the mobilization resource, the army is contract.
  • vjhbc
    vjhbc 22 September 2013 11: 49 New
    0
    all this talk about the fact that a professional army is better, and a conscript cannot be taught - from the evil one, because firstly the main task of the army is to prepare CITIZEN and secondly, who tried to teach them in a year, you can teach a bear, not just a person, but to avoid this leapfrog with refuseniks. NEED TO ACCEPT TOTAL one law (not serve in the army can occupy elected and appointed public office and senior executive positions in commercial enterprises with state stakes in) and one amendment of the law on CALL IMPROVING draft age from 18 to 21 years
    Quote: Apollon
    quote-The complexity of weapons systems is such that we won’t prepare a draftee for at least a year, at least two, so that he could fight on these weapons, ”Shoigu emphasized.

    it’s absolutely true, but at the same time, in my opinion, I think I’ll significantly increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.
  • waisson
    waisson 18 September 2013 08: 14 New
    +1
    where he finds so many crickets and what lures
    1. svp67
      svp67 18 September 2013 11: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: waisson
      where he finds so many crickets and what lures

      In Russia, and a reasonable monetary and social policy, when a “serving” person will calmly carry out his official duties, knowing that he has the opportunity to create for himself, he has a chance for the future, in the form of receipt, free of charge or at a significantly lower price than those who served, necessary for him in further education, that he and his family have acceptable living conditions, and this is not only housing, but also kindergartens and schools for children and the opportunity to work for his wife ... In short, here is work for real "statesmen "very, very much ...
    2. grafrozow
      grafrozow 18 September 2013 17: 19 New
      0
      Quote: waisson
      where he finds so many crickets and what lures
      Dear, unemployment in the country is growing, and in the army you can get a good profession for free. Yes, and always in a civilian attitude to former military men was an order of magnitude higher than civilians, and so the number of people wishing to increase. hi
  • Soldier
    Soldier 18 September 2013 08: 22 New
    +6
    He himself served, “term”, 2 years. But I believe that the optimal service life on conscription should be 3 years. So that after training it is REALLY possible to master a specialty in the troops.
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 18 September 2013 09: 06 New
      14
      Without a draft army, without a mobilization reserve that is being prepared for military service, Russia, due to its large territory, thousands of kilometers of border, numerous neighboring states, of which most are potentially hostile, cannot create an effective army that can defend Russia's territorial integrity .
      Is the experience of the history of our state does not teach anything. Remember the 1941 year when the cadre Red Army was actually destroyed, some died, and 3 million soldiers and officers were captured. A prepared mobilization reserve saved the country.
      Yes, the storekeepers at first had little experience and knowledge, and the reserve officers (as the staff call them “jackets”) had insufficient team skills, but they quickly learned and broke the back of the Nazis. And what would happen if the USSR at that time did not have a mobilization stock of soldiers and officers, but there was only a cadre army? Defeat was guaranteed.
      Therefore, appeals and the policy of transition to a contract army from the evil one is to the detriment of Russia.
      1. not good
        not good 18 September 2013 09: 56 New
        +5
        Contractors are contract soldiers, but conscripts are still needed. A mobile reserve cannot be created from contract soldiers. Especially in the infantry in a more or less large-scale conflict, combat units will lose hp. Israeli experience
        role model. Through military service, albeit with a minimum period, all eligible citizens of the country must pass. And the mobile reserve must constantly maintain combat readiness by means of training. Shooting should be taught not in battle, but at the training ground. It is better to play it safe in the defense of the country.
        1. jasper
          jasper 18 September 2013 11: 02 New
          -1
          and sense? from ignoramus? pass shooting and tactical training without conscription
          1. not good
            not good 18 September 2013 22: 59 New
            0
            And get a Voroshilov shooter badge on his chest. And tactical interaction on military films, and honey wassat You can do the preparation in the morgue.
      2. jasper
        jasper 18 September 2013 11: 00 New
        +2
        can create a militia (like the national guard in the usa?), training for 3 months, at the place of registration, and every year two-week fees? and make the army a professional conscription, but with a service life of 5-7 years, with serious motivation, namely, free higher education for those who will pull in the best universities in the country, only these people should have the right to civil service in the police, prosecutors, become judges etc?
        and by the way it doesn’t hurt that the right to be elected to the legislative bodies of power would be granted only to them, and to persons who are members of the militia for at least the same 5-7 years
      3. Proud.
        Proud. 18 September 2013 11: 27 New
        +5
        Quote: vladimirZ
        Without draft army

        I agree. The appeal must be left.
      4. No_more
        No_more 18 September 2013 13: 08 New
        0
        With this logic, you can not twitch, even if we have everything from infants to the elderly will be mobilized, then China will defeat its regular army.
        The times of huge unprofessional armies have passed. I think it’s possible to manage sensible NVP, it is necessary for survival, just like the same physical education, but it’s not worthwhile to forcefully drive the army, if anyone doesn’t want it, what good will it be? Only in vain will the state maintain and teach it for 3 years.
        1. AleksUkr
          AleksUkr 18 September 2013 17: 23 New
          +5
          Quote: No_more
          It’s not worthwhile to forcefully drive into the army. If anyone does not want to, then what good will it be? Only in vain will the state maintain and teach it for 3 years.

          IMAGINE: War. Patriots fight, the best die. And all scum sits in the rear, bastards with delight, enjoys the delights of life. The war is over. And who will raise the country? A cohort of loafers, mowers? I doubt it deeply! It must always be remembered - THE DEFENSE COSTS NEVER BEEN WANTED !!!!!
          1. No_more
            No_more 18 September 2013 19: 27 New
            +3
            Patriots fight, the best die. And all scum sits in the rear, bastards with delight, enjoys the delights of life.

            You tell this to the blockade workers and workers in factories that worked 18 hours undernourished. Why do many people think that what they do is the most important thing, while the rest only interfere with harm?
            After all, it’s not true that during the war only the military is needed. People do not stop being born, die, eat, get sick and so on. Are people who treat others, feed, work in factories, do basic science, and even do art (after all, during the war, artists raised the spirit of soldiers and brightened up everyday life) not patriots, but "loafers and mowers."
            If so, then I do not want to live in a country where a patriot is only a man with weapons during the war.
            Well, now it’s scary to think about a full-scale war, and not because all sorts of "impassability" are afraid to serve, but because even a billionth army will be dusted up with nuclear weapons, which will inevitably be used if it comes to such a war.
            1. AleksUkr
              AleksUkr 19 September 2013 16: 39 New
              0
              Quote: No_more
              You tell this to the blockade workers and workers in factories that worked 18 hours undernourished


              DO NOT CONFUSE SOMETHING WITH THE FINGER. YOU HAVE A DAMAGED CONCEPT OF PATRIOTISM. I talked about idlers, not workers. They also kept weapons in their hands. Their weapons - machine, tractor, etc. But nuclear weapons - after all, it is WMD for everyone.
              Most clearly, such phenomena are described in the Slavic-Aryan Vedas.

              Santi Vedas of Perun. Circle One:

              “6. (134). FASH-DESTROYER has evaporated the rivers,
              the sea and the sky were filled with black clouds
              through the impenetrable stench
              the beam does not pass light ...
              ... and Life will never return to that World ever ... "
        2. I'm Russian
          I'm Russian 18 September 2013 18: 31 New
          0
          Will win Having a numerical advantage over the enemy for more than one century, the celestial warriors suffered defeat after defeat. Recall Khabarov and his guys, the siege of Albazin ... the Manjuirs who invaded China, the Opium Wars, the Japanese occupation ...
          1. not good
            not good 18 September 2013 23: 12 New
            +2
            If we take into account that Khabarov crushed the cossacks (professional wars) by cossacks (then professional wars), then there are no parallels with our time. The Chinese army is already semi-professional and serve there longer than ours, and enough money is poured in, and equipment is updated regularly. So that it’s better to have a trained reserve and a lot more. In the case of defense, it’s better to overdo it in advance so that you don’t pay with blood later. And another question: who is more suitable for the term “cannon fodder” to an unexpectedly urgently called up person who saw the gun only in the picture or has passed at least some military training?
  • treskoed
    treskoed 18 September 2013 08: 38 New
    0
    EBN has already canceled the call! Maybe the same rake?
    1. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn 18 September 2013 09: 41 New
      +5
      The reduction is not yet canceled, on average, the draft company is about 300 thousand people, i.e. if Shoigu speaks of tens of thousands, then the maximum appeal will be reduced to 200 thousand, agree 400 thousand for the autumn and spring calls is not bad.
  • Boot under the carpet
    Boot under the carpet 18 September 2013 08: 46 New
    0
    For that matter, it would be worth calling the young people for three months in order to somehow study the charter and learn how to use personal firearms!
    1. military
      military 18 September 2013 09: 10 New
      +5
      Quote: Boot under the carpet
      For that matter, it would be worth calling young people for three monthsto at least somehow study the charter and learn how to use personal firearms!

      ... so that, if something happens, they could shoot themselves correctly? ...
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 18 September 2013 09: 48 New
        +1
        I think it’s better for 3 years with vacations and a good salary, then the service will no longer be seen as a burden, but rather as training in a technical school, and even issue a certificate of education which will be quoted as a diploma of secondary education in a regular educational institution. e. the state will be free to teach technical education.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 18 September 2013 11: 47 New
      0
      Quote: Boot under the carpet
      For that matter, it would be worth calling young people for three months in order to somehow study the charter and learn how to use personal firearms

      It is not enough to study the Charter, it is necessary to train a fighter GUIDED by him ...
  • military
    military 18 September 2013 09: 04 New
    0
    "Whether we want it or not, but the army should become a contract ..." - said Shoigu.

    so still ... do we want or do not want? ...
    “The complexity of the weapons systems is such that we won’t prepare the draftee for at least a year, even for two so that he could fight with these weapons,” Shoigu emphasized.

    beginning of the end of the call? ...
  • Sunjar
    Sunjar 18 September 2013 09: 07 New
    +6
    Armeec, I absolutely agree with you. He also served two years. We still had such an opinion with our colleagues, not all of course. In my subjective opinion, it will not work to equip the Russian army with pure contract soldiers in sufficient numbers - there will be a strong shortage. A year-olds generally will not really understand anything and be able to, respectively, too. In the case of a big kipish, you will have to call up useless dropouts. But everyone will be happy ... In my unit, everyone who was involved in special equipment learned their specialty at the proper level to fulfill the task.
    Cowards, like fire-fearing army, and so a dime a dozen, and when the number of conscripts will be reduced at times, then the majority of the male population will have an idea of ​​the army and war from games and reports, which will adversely affect the real situation.
    Of us make rags that are not able to protect neither ourselves nor our loved ones. Our country has always been proud of its wars, and now everything goes to the point that we will cease to be such, and we will only rely on contract soldiers: "When will they come, when will they save us?"
  • Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 18 September 2013 09: 12 New
    -2
    even for a year, even for two, we will not prepare for him to be able to fight on these weapons

    Those who are unable to learn should be sent to our probable friends, for permanent residence, with recommendations from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 18 September 2013 09: 30 New
    +4
    The increase in contractors, although I do not like this word. I would call them professionals, it won’t lead to positive changes if the training in the military specialty is only theoretically, without constant practice, it doesn’t make sense anyway, as the saying goes. And the point is not to pay huge salaries at once, a military professional in peacetime should receive the same as an average skilled worker. Otherwise, there will be a caste of armed, trained people for whom money will be a measure of their own well-being. And such in the event of war will not protect anyone.
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 26 September 2013 19: 42 New
      0
      Quote: vladsolo56
      And the point is not to pay huge salaries right away,

      I think it would be wise to reintroduce class and merit. Reached a certain level of professionalism, confirmed in the standings, get an extra charge.
  • Alikovo
    Alikovo 18 September 2013 09: 42 New
    +3
    really bloated we have the right:
    Chairman of the Law-va-1 First Deputy and 7 Zamov.
    Ministry of Internal Affairs-2 deputy.
    MES-5 first deputies, approx. 20 deputies.
    Ministry of Health-4zama, 9 assistants, 1 adviser.
    mid-7 deputies.
    Ministry of Culture-6 deputies.
    Defense Ministry-1 First Deputy.
    Ministry of Education and Science-1 first deputy. 5 deputies.
    min.development of long tail-5sam.
    Ministry of Ecology and Natural Resources-6zam.
    minprom-6zamov.
    communications ministry-4 deputy.
    Ministry of Agriculture-7 deputies.
    Mysport-5 deputy.
    Ministry of Labor and Social Security-5zama.
    Ministry of Finance-8zam.
    Ministry of Justice-7 deputies.
    Ministry of Economic Development-10zam.
    minenergo-2 deputy.
    1. Hort
      Hort 18 September 2013 11: 30 New
      +1
      For a long, long time it was time to reduce the number of deputies to the necessary minimum - leave three, for example. And so that everyone bears personal responsibility (including the leader and deputies) for tasks and decisions under his control.
      And of course, he screwed up - he found the last of the deputies and he seemed to be out of business. Democracy, h_li ...
  • Alexandr73
    Alexandr73 18 September 2013 09: 49 New
    +3
    Quote: vladimirZ
    Without a draft army, without a mobilization reserve that is being prepared for military service, Russia, due to its large territory, thousands of kilometers of border, numerous neighboring states, of which most are potentially hostile, cannot create an effective army that can defend Russia's territorial integrity .
    Is the experience of the history of our state does not teach anything. Remember the 1941 year when the cadre Red Army was actually destroyed, some died, and 3 million soldiers and officers were captured. A prepared mobilization reserve saved the country.
    Yes, the storekeepers at first had little experience and knowledge, and the reserve officers (as the staff call them “jackets”) had insufficient team skills, but they quickly learned and broke the back of the Nazis. And what would happen if the USSR at that time did not have a mobilization stock of soldiers and officers, but there was only a cadre army? Defeat was guaranteed.
    Therefore, appeals and the policy of transition to a contract army from the evil one is to the detriment of Russia.

    In something I agree, In something not.
    1. In the event of the start of serious hostilities (with serious powers), the entire modern army (on both sides) will be destroyed almost completely during the first day.
    2. After which mobilization reserve will go into action. Unprepared and not knowing anything, but AK is so simple that a monkey can handle it.
    3. Why then do we need a modern army of contract soldiers? To participate in local conflicts. To participate in conflicts on their territory. Perhaps even against his people.
    4. And so as not to run away from the military registration and enlistment offices - I agree with the proposal voiced here in the comments - to issue a passport after serving in the army. (will greatly contribute to the desire to serve !!!)
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 18 September 2013 14: 31 New
      +1
      How is everything simple for you? I served a passport, so what? again, everything will be as it was, for those who have money and don’t have to serve, and who don’t have, the whole army service will fall on them, this is the first. The second mobilization reserve does not have to be prepared calling on everyone, spending a lot of money on recruiting, maintaining, and training. Where it is easier to conduct training at the place of residence, starting from school. and then retraining at local training centers, which can be organized in each regional center. It will be both cheaper and more efficient. I don’t understand why some simply can’t sleep how they want to drive everyone into the barracks.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 18 September 2013 09: 53 New
    -4
    Chasing is not necessary. just judge and give a specific term.
  • HollyGremlin
    HollyGremlin 18 September 2013 09: 54 New
    +6
    It seems to me that you just need to finally train a conscript in military affairs given his abilities as a civilian. Tell me, where will they distribute, say, a successful programmer? - right, dig trenches, because it is stooped, the eyesight is a bit low, it cannot carry heaviness. And this despite the fact that the army is sorely lacking specialists. Yes, he (the programmer) would love to work day and night, on programs for the military, if he were fed, provided access to the Internet and not distracted (of course I exaggerate, but the essence does not change).
  • onegin61
    onegin61 18 September 2013 09: 56 New
    +2
    Koment. from the pros (28 years in the Missile Forces, not a day in the office). To optimize the "top" to a minimum, make military districts in directions and leave only parts of a full battlefield in them, transfer the rest to a quick deployment reserve. Establish the concept that equipment should fight in a war, and people only control it, there should be at least people . Do not distract specialists to secondary tasks, like combat security, technical support, guard duty, and households. service (and send a call there). Make a den. soda such that they don’t leave. Regularly raise the full BG with the implementation of all tasks with practical application. Random will leave, some in the hozblok, some in the protection and maintenance, only pros with a very high den will remain. sod., official housing (to move around the service in the districts), with this formulation of the question there will be no desire to change something.
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 18 September 2013 10: 03 New
    +3
    I am not a big fan of the contract army, especially with the Russian size and Russian poverty.
    I think that the respected minister is led by the nose, saying that the conscript needs as much as 5 years to master the technology. With the revival of the DOSAAF system, the strengthening of the system of junior specialists, a radical solution to the problem of sergeants and the release of military personnel from economic activity, the previous 2-3 years will suffice.
    BUT!
    The political component of the issue is such that there is no other way. The degree of hatred of the army is inflated by liberals and fueled by failures and betrayals in the Caucasus. Demoralization and beating of the officer corps. Endless "reforms" and Serdyukovism. Rampant liberals in power. Etc. All this forces to make such a decision.
    Good luck!
    1. Lockbase170
      Lockbase170 18 September 2013 10: 32 New
      +2
      Yes, she .. I didn’t understand a bit .. The contract is a contract, the compulsory appeal is not canceled, they just have to create a comfortable environment for people who conclude the contract, and urgent urgency .. But already as a DRS ..
    2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US 18 September 2013 12: 10 New
      +1
      Where did you read fairy tales about the poverty of Russia? The author is not Rotenberg by chance?
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 18 September 2013 13: 30 New
        +1
        Where did you read fairy tales about Russia's poverty?

        Nearby screamers recommend comparing the basic GDP figures of leading economies. Still, comparing, it would be nice to pay attention to which particular sectors of the economy, how much are necessary. Adequate cries will cease, but inadequate ones do not interest me.
        It’s boring to answer such stupid cries, but I just now have complete idleness, so I’m stupidly killing time.
        By the way, and who is this
        Rothenberg
        ?
        hi
    3. grafrozow
      grafrozow 18 September 2013 19: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Peaceful military
      The political component of the issue is such that there is no other way.
      Yes, the Russian language is 5 + ... The political components of the question-the eggs aren’t worth it, the economic components-Read the report to the Government of the Head of the Ministry of Economic Development Alexei Ulyukaev, without rushing, these are not the works of Marx, more interesting ... laughing
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 18 September 2013 19: 45 New
        0
        The political components of the question, the eggs aren’t worth it, the economic components. Read the report to the Government of the Head of the Ministry of Economic Development Alexei Ulyukaev, without rushing, these are not the works of Marx, more interesting ...

        Dear Alexander!
        I am aware, but I do not agree with your opinion, because here, in my opinion, it is precisely the political nuances that I have listed above. Well, along with this, attempts to bring also an economic mine, by the liberals, never stopped. I see no contradiction? I see only a cart and a horse. Do not put the cart in front of the horse. laughing
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 18 September 2013 21: 56 New
          0
          Quote: Peaceful military
          but I don’t agree with your opinion, because here, in my opinion, it is precisely the political nuances that I have listed above. Well, along with this, attempts to bring also an economic mine, by the liberals, never stopped

          My opinion, only professionals can do their job efficiently when I see mechanics with a diploma from Khrenogorsk College, it’s a headache and, God forbid, after five years, distinguish a KAMAZ highway gearbox from an all-terrain vehicle without a reference. Experience cannot be replaced by any patriotism and I don’t like it when they abruptly criticize some kind of faceless liberalism, name specific names. Are you a military man, who will Serdyukov be attributed to after his reforms? Enemies of the people, liberals or powerful friends? He’s not even a suspect, thanks to ours the guarantor "... Sleep the inhabitants, everything is calm in Baghdad ... hi
  • slacker
    slacker 18 September 2013 10: 27 New
    +3
    Shoigu is right. Nefig drag into the army those who are stubborn and unwilling to serve, and even spend considerable budgetary funds on them.
    Slave labor is the most inefficient. That is why all systems built on the use of slave labor will inevitably fall apart and crash.
    It is enough to recall the Roman legions. When they were equipped with motivated Roman citizens, the empire grew stronger and expanded. When the legions began to be equipped with all in a row, including foreign barbarians, and citizens began to burn their lives in gladiatorial battles and in the arms of the courtesans, the empire died out and died.
    Will be able to attract truly motivated Russian citizens to the army is a big question. If it can be solved positively, then Russia will live and its influence will grow. They cannot, it means Russia will repeat the fate of Rome.
    Modern weapons and the highest and most profitable motives for those who will be qualified to use these weapons - this is the only recipe.
    The army must be fully contracted.
    The reserve is universal and professional.
    To compensate for possible losses, there should be a system in which all men enter the reserve according to the Swiss model, have personal weapons, uniforms and equipment at home. But these reservists should be trained not in combat units, but in special training centers where they can be trained by personnel officers who have gone to the reserve and have a sufficient level of professional training.
    But these teachers from among retired officers should not stay in these centers for more than 3-5 years.
    They should be replaced by fresh retired officers with the latest experience in using troops and using even newer weapons.
    To pay for being in the reserve, to encourage advancement in the reserve and to reward for successes in training the reservists.
    For an attempt by the reservist to evade serving in the reserve (for example, not to come to the training camp) or to abuse (for example, to sell weapons given to him and stored at home), he must be judged and judged strictly.
    A mass army of 18-year-old brainless youths is the road to nowhere. Obviously backward armies like the North Korean, which try to compensate for the lack of quality of weapons with the amount of manpower, follow this path.
    So Shoigu is right.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 18 September 2013 11: 25 New
      -4
      So Shoigu is right.







      Of course, Shoigu is right! And Marshal D.T. Yazov was right. All the Defense Ministers who started the campaign to equip the Armed Forces with the contract soldiers were right. Oh, how right. Here the Defense Ministry A.E. Serdyukov took, and he reduced a lot of tens of thousands of contractors, together with officers and midshipmen, warrant officers! Upon transition to a 1-year term of service, deciding that this will solve the problems with the recruitment of the RF Armed Forces. Colonel General Makarov, Chief of the General Staff, gave a fiery speech on this subject. And they were both right. Now he defends his innocence Russian Defense Ministry S. Shoigu. And he is right!
    2. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 18 September 2013 17: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Loafer
      A mass army of 18-year-old brainless youths is the road to nowhere. Obviously backward armies like the North Korean, which try to compensate for the lack of quality of weapons with the amount of manpower, follow this path.

      And who fought with us in Afghanistan, Chechnya and other hot spots? According to your classification, brainless youths. But the country is proud of them. And I would not advise insulting our fighting youth ... It might cost more.
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 26 September 2013 19: 57 New
        0
        Quote: AleksUkr
        According to your classification, brainless youths. But the country is proud of them. And I would not advise insulting our fighting youth ... It might cost more.

        Do not distort, no one offends the memory of our soldiers. Better think about how less losses would be if the guys were better prepared and not thrown into the hell after the accelerated course of the young soldier.
  • onegin61
    onegin61 18 September 2013 10: 29 New
    10
    An example of mediocre hostilities was during the South Ossetian conflict. There, starting with Medvedev (following), the Minister of Defense, they conducted military operations like the Great Patriotic War (led by the unit of war). The personnel completed the tasks, but at what cost? Just the Georgians fought poorly there despite their good equipment, and our units they threw it there like meat. It was necessary to fight with the technique: suppress all control points with point missile strikes (including in Tbilisi, it was not in vain that Saakashvili chewed a tie with fear), block all approaches to our group with missile volleys, AND ALREADY TAKE OVER THE TERRITORY.
    1. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 19 September 2013 16: 45 New
      +1
      Quote: Onegin61
      It was necessary to fight with the technique: suppress all control points with precision missile strikes (including in Tbilisi, it was not in vain that Saakashvili chewed a tie from fear), block all approaches to our group with missile volleys, AND ALREADY TAKE OFF TERRITORY.


      WHERE WERE YOU WERE IN 2008, WHY DIDN'T YOU CORRECT OUR MILITARY-POLITICAL MANAGEMENT? SPRAY THE HEAD WITH ASH!
  • Lockbase170
    Lockbase170 18 September 2013 10: 41 New
    +3
    The motto of the Airborne Forces: Nobody except us! Airborne Intelligence Motto: Are We Spoofing? ;)
  • Fl000d
    Fl000d 18 September 2013 10: 54 New
    -2
    But what about mob training. No, everyone should serve, and the contract army as utopia is unattainable.
  • rsv75
    rsv75 18 September 2013 10: 56 New
    +2
    What is the appeal of the contractors? We already have no contractors. Fresh food and .... with difficulty.
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 18 September 2013 11: 18 New
      +1
      What is the appeal of the contractors? We already have no contractors. Fresh food and .... with difficulty.



      The first mass recruitment of contract soldiers was in the spring of 1992. Before 1992, there were many of them, they were called conscripts. Most often they served in the Navy and the Air Force.
      1. rsv75
        rsv75 18 September 2013 12: 20 New
        +1
        All the previous sets of contractors since 92 ended in failure (the last with Serdyukov, with the wording removed as unnecessary, illiterate), now we will recruit from scientific companies.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 18 September 2013 15: 25 New
          +1
          All the previous sets of contractors since 92 ended in failure (the last with Serdyukov, with the wording removed as unnecessary, illiterate), now we will recruit from scientific companies.



          I agree, the sets of contractors failed. During the reform, they were reduced, regardless of the attitude to the service, class, service life. Scientific companies are officially organized opportunities for evading children of authoritative people.
        2. Doctor Evil
          Doctor Evil 18 September 2013 19: 36 New
          0
          I remember the contractors of the 1992-93 model. None of the officers knew what to do with them.
          1. AX
            AX 19 September 2013 08: 47 New
            +3
            I, a contract model of 1992, have been serving for more than 20 years ... And I don’t remember something that the officers didn’t know what to do with us. In that, the first part, the training process, as well as the service, were very well established. It was minimal. At least, all the reductions and optimizations (all kinds of “survival”, enhancement courses for some reason, etc.) so far have passed without “losses”, it was contract contractors of the 1992 model who had to upgrade ...
            1. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 19 September 2013 09: 13 New
              +1
              Quote: AX
              I, a contractor of the 1992 model, have been serving for more than 20 years ...

              Respect, Igor.
              This is not common ...

              And in the Belogorsky garrison, service will be more generous than in the middle zone of Russia.
              Good luck.
              wink
            2. Doctor Evil
              Doctor Evil 24 September 2013 22: 22 New
              +1
              Dear Igor You remember what chaos was happening then. The Soviet Army ended, served under temporary charters. They signed a contract after six months of service. Drivers and wireless at least. Together with them, open drunkenness came to the barracks. This is from what I saw myself. I appreciate your choice of profession, I was only enough for 10 years.
  • onegin61
    onegin61 18 September 2013 10: 58 New
    +2
    Quote: Fl000d
    But what about mob training. No, everyone should serve, and the contract army as utopia is unattainable.
    ON MODERN TECHNOLOGY ONLY SHOULD BE PROF, AND MONKEYS WITH A Pomegranate WE DO NOT NEED. the whole call for military guard, guard duty, technical support, the hozblok in general, as far as abilities are concerned.
    1. rsv75
      rsv75 18 September 2013 11: 05 New
      +1
      And in Chechnya, too, the monkeys fought on technology?
    2. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 18 September 2013 11: 19 New
      0
      ON MODERN TECHNOLOGY ONLY SHOULD BE PROF, AND MONKEYS WITH A Pomegranate WE DO NOT NEED. the whole call for military guard, guard duty, technical support, the hozblok in general, as far as abilities are concerned.



      This spell has been repeated since about 1984.
    3. Fl000d
      Fl000d 18 September 2013 12: 55 New
      +1
      Modern technology is designed for its simple and affordable management, including without proper education. Not all, but most of the modern technology is available for use without many years of study. In addition, considering that everywhere the technology is modern, all the time, you are clearly experiencing illusions in this regard. And everyone must learn to learn how to fight, to be able to protect themselves, loved ones, and, of course, their country.
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 26 September 2013 20: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Fl000d
        Modern technology is designed for its simple and affordable control.

        Modern technology needs not only management, but also competent service. Make the ignoramus service and prepare the tank for exit, how far will it go?
        Quote: Fl000d
        without proper education

        Well, well.
  • gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 18 September 2013 11: 15 New
    +5
    It will not work to equip the RF Armed Forces. Contractors are voluntarily signing a contract. The Minister of Defense apparently forgot about this. The government is not able to create acceptable living conditions for officers, as it can promise something to candidates for contract soldiers. Over 100 thousand officers who served, midshipmen, Ensigns, contractors can not get any housing, no certificates, no funds to purchase housing. Those who served the terms according to the contract. Since the beginning of the 90s, tens of thousands of contractors were reduced and dismissed, especially during the 2007-2012 reform, without pity and sense. all these organizational events are remembered by contractors, they must remember that, if necessary, the leaders of the Moscow Region will be thrown out to the citizen, not perceiving the contract as a document, but as a scrap of paper. In addition, no one is trying to explain to the candidates for contractors after the end of the contract or reaching a citizen by age.
    1. IRBIS
      IRBIS 18 September 2013 11: 42 New
      +5
      Quote: gunnerminer
      It will not work to equip the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Contractors are voluntarily signing a contract. The Minister of Defense apparently forgot about it.

      MO understands this, to put it mildly, badly. Now reports about% of contract soldiers, “races” for completeness of reception and other “charms” of obligation and companionship will start again. This has happened more than once. It's a shame that the "talking room" starts again and the promises have no end. Whom to call on the contract? Now half on the contract are those who simply "did not find" themselves in ordinary life. So, after all, the soldiers of them - none!
      Remove your glasses from Shoigu, I think he has something with glasses ...
      1. gunnerminer
        gunnerminer 18 September 2013 11: 54 New
        +3
        MO understands this, to put it mildly, badly. Now reports about% of contract servicemen, “races” for completeness of reception and other “charms” of obligation and companionship will start again. This has happened more than once. I was offended by the fact that the "talking room" begins again and the promises have no end. Whom to call on the contract? Now half on the contract are those who simply "did not find" themselves in ordinary life. So, after all, the soldiers of them - none!
        Remove your glasses from Shoigu, I think he has something with glasses ...



        I agree with you. For all points.
        1. creak
          creak 18 September 2013 17: 04 New
          +2
          Shoigu put these glasses on himself and he is comfortable in them ...
      2. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 18 September 2013 14: 53 New
        +4
        Quote: IRBIS
        Now half on the contract are those who simply "did not find" themselves in ordinary life. So, after all, the soldiers of them - none!

        yes
        Alexander, my word "double bass" is still a nervous tick.
        belay
        ......................

        Comrade Shoigu, it’s good to follow the lead of tolerant public opinion.
        Make a life of at least 1,5 years and moderate stool suction to an acceptable level.
        And then the fighters and equipment do not have time to learn over the year and do not know how to do anything on it.
        Already told one story (real):

        Morning. Park equipment PPD.
        The kid (obviously not a "fighter") in a clean jumpsuit runs to the representative of the plant:
        - Uncle, but my tank will not start again.
        - Ahem ... And you are on the Levinian pos.sl, son?
        - Yes, uncle, popped on the wheel, as you advised the last time ... All the same, do not start.
        - So shitty pos.sl ...

        We extinguish the light, drain the oil. A curtain.
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 18 September 2013 15: 32 New
          +2
          We extinguish the light, drain the oil. A curtain




          It can be seen that an experienced soldier writes. IRBIS imho serves in the GUK, judging by the presentation of the topic. Experienced.
          1. VAF
            VAF 18 September 2013 15: 40 New
            +4
            Quote: gunnerminer
            IRBIS IMHO serves in GUK


            Greetings to you. Dear +! drinks One guessed right- EXPERIENCES soldier

            But the rest lol

            This is Irbis soldier


            And this is Alex TV soldier


            "Staff" there and not close .... observed drinks
            1. IRBIS
              IRBIS 18 September 2013 16: 40 New
              +1
              Quote: vaf
              This is Irbis

              Thank you, Sergey!
            2. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 18 September 2013 17: 52 New
              +1
              Quote: vaf
              And this is Alex TV

              Thank you Sergey!
              T-80 test photo
              good

              Only nana litola is bigger and dirt, dirt, dirt ...
              Not at the show, tea.
              laughing
          2. IRBIS
            IRBIS 18 September 2013 16: 39 New
            +3
            Quote: gunnerminer
            It can be seen that an experienced soldier writes. IRBIS imho serves in the GUK, judging by the presentation of the topic. Experienced.

            No, not in the GUK, I'm on the other side, but I had to deal with this, like any commander. On duty, he was responsible for manning part of the permanent readiness by contract soldiers. They gave a plan and away we go ... Reports, reports and standing in the offices of the chiefs in the laundress position. Then the brigade commander said: “That's it, I can’t take it anymore!” and scored all in a row "for the plan." Part of the combat readiness completely lost, but the “peppy” report went to the “top”. And the fig ????
            1. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 18 September 2013 17: 56 New
              +2
              Quote: IRBIS
              and scored all in a row "for the plan." Part of the combat readiness completely lost, but the “peppy” report went to the “top”. And the fig ????

              Everything is as usual ... Eheh.

              The double basses discredited themselves almost completely.
              The very principle of the approach to solving this issue is rotten.
              Here it is necessary to change it.

              In Soviet times, this "tribe" was smaller, but better.
              "Crickets" I will always remember with a kind word.
              1. svp67
                svp67 18 September 2013 18: 03 New
                +1
                Quote: Aleks tv
                Here it is necessary to change it.

                And all you need to remember the words "grandfather" VIL - "Better less, but better ..."
                1. Aleks tv
                  Aleks tv 18 September 2013 18: 07 New
                  0
                  Quote: svp67
                  "Better less, but better ..."

                  good

                  Greetings, Sergey.
                  hi
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 18 September 2013 18: 08 New
                    +1
                    soldier ZdravZhelavTov
                    Quote: Aleks tv
                    Aleks tv
                    laughing
                    What's new here?
                    By the way, about the article. After all, the country is again approaching a demographic pit, so what you want - you don’t want, but the number of draftees will decrease. So, really, it’s better now to take care of their replacement by contract soldiers, but of course you need to prepare them, you need and we need to ... and what to like, that there are progress in the right direction, if only they would not stop ...
                    1. Aleks tv
                      Aleks tv 18 September 2013 18: 22 New
                      +2
                      Quote: svp67
                      What's new here?

                      Yes, we’re goggling slowly.
                      wink

                      I read, now, storytellers - dreaming of smart, strong, professionally trained double bass ... pah, damn it ... contract soldiers.
                      Which are versed in technology at times, and literate to the point, even conscious by the most I can’t ...

                      Who doesn’t want such fighters ... I would tear them to my unit with arms and legs.
                      laughing
                      Just hde to take them ... Yes, the whole Army ...
                      On Mars, well, put the military commissariats ...
                      what winked

                      And the preparation of the mob.resource of "dreamers" is not at all interesting.
                      And rightly so, fuck us mob.resource? He doesn’t need us at all, we’ll throw his hats of heroic adversary without even getting up from computers.
                      Urya ...

                      Something like that.
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 18 September 2013 18: 31 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        Something like that.

                        The most annoying thing is that our beloved, to the tears of the Fatherland, systematically exterminated the desire of NORMAL men to go to serve under the contract, and as a result a very bad picture is now emerging that people trained, needed aircraft, the same aircraft cannot take on contract service, since they were already there and “cooked in that mess”, or rather, “der. from promises and demands” broke the contract, and you know by what articles, or rather, the article did it before ... In short, “time pressure”. But it’s good that we can overcome it, because there are young people who have just served, but attracting them to the “contract” is now worth much more ... both morally and financially.
                      2. Aleks tv
                        Aleks tv 18 September 2013 18: 45 New
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        Fatherland, systematically exterminated the desire of NORMAL men to go to serve under the contract,

                        Quote: svp67
                        But it’s good that we can overcome it, because there are young people who have just served, but attracting them to the “contract” now costs a lot more ... both morally and financially.

                        Yes, NORMAL will not be easy to attract now ...
                        Mixed type of picking, with strict and clearly defined selection, with clear goals and objectives such an action as engaging contractors.
                        Better on sergeants.
                        This: more or less real.
                        And then there will be plenty of bunting.
          3. svp67
            svp67 18 September 2013 18: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: IRBIS
            And the fig ????

            Yes, so that at the very first meeting, “do not pull the nails from the chair” ... The command was given - it was executed, clearly reported to the Supreme - here we are ... But nobody thought about the combat readiness ... They are temporary workers ...
      3. VAF
        VAF 18 September 2013 15: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: Aleks tv
        - Yes, uncle, popped on the wheel, as you advised the last time ... All the same, do not start.
        - So shitty pos.sl ...

        We extinguish the light, drain the oil. A curtain.


        laughing laughing laughing+++++ ..15 minutes I laugh ... lying under the table .... pause drinks
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 18 September 2013 15: 47 New
          +2
          Quote: vaf
          pause

          Greetings, Sergey.
          drinks

          And the story is real.
          A co-worker told, still pulling the strap.
    2. VAF
      VAF 18 September 2013 15: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: IRBIS
      This has happened more than once.


      Sasha, +! soldier
      1. IRBIS
        IRBIS 18 September 2013 16: 45 New
        +2
        Quote: vaf
        Sasha, +!

        Sergey, as far as I know, our aviation is also developing and reforming "in a spiral", the turns of which connect the rake laid on it.
        Sometimes I wonder why it is necessary to step in one odorous pile even not twice to understand what it is r ... oh?
        1. VAF
          VAF 18 September 2013 16: 57 New
          +1
          Quote: IRBIS
          Why do you need to step into one odorous bunch not even twice to understand that this is g ... oh?


          Sasha is here only according to the classics, either according to Tyutchev or according to Krylov ... unfortunately recourse +! crying
    3. Garrin
      Garrin 18 September 2013 17: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: IRBIS
      Now half on the contract are those who simply "did not find" themselves in ordinary life. So, after all, the soldiers of them - none!

      Sasha, welcome!
      A little higher I wrote about ChOPovtsev. Pretty much the same.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 18 September 2013 11: 21 New
    +2
    Contractors are worth a deal (given the current complexity of military equipment) But I think that I should be at the level of military training (initial military training), I should increase hours and schools should be (former officers at least) .. Otherwise, if something happens (general mobilization) they will crumble like cabbage ..
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 18 September 2013 13: 31 New
      +1
      The mobilization of human stocks for NVP in the school is not being prepared.
      Only military service for ordinary and sergeant personnel, compulsory military departments in state universities for the training of reserve officers, periodic military training are able to prepare the mobilization reserve necessary for the state.
      In view of the collapse of the preparation of the mobilization reserve in Russia, someone seems to consciously liquidate it.
      A children's question arises: why are they doing this and who are they? And isn’t it time for them to take appropriate measures, even though "we are not 37 years old."
  • Hort
    Hort 18 September 2013 11: 27 New
    +1
    again the contract army as a panacea .... The budget, I wonder, due to which category of professional citizens will be expanded for the normal salary of contract soldiers?
    IMHO, with our length of borders, the transition to a fully contracted army in the form in which they are trying to make it, will lead to a budget deficit and ..only in the economy.
    The army, of course, must be professional, but on a voluntary basis. That is, a person must consciously choose a military profession and already, so to speak, grow in this direction. A kind of separate estate, if you will. as an officer in pre-revolutionary Russia.
    And so that people are ready to consciously choose this path, powerful incentives are needed - from the banal provision of housing and decent salaries, to preferences in the tax, public and other fields, depending on merit, rank and professional experience.
    For example, if a person is a participant in hostilities, then he has a tax discount of, say, 20%. if it is injured - then in 30%. And if he has government awards, for example, orders, then he is completely exempt from taxes. Now, if I’m not mistaken, only the Heroes of Russia have the right to tax relief and free travel on various modes of transport. Although how this actually works in practice, I find it difficult to say.

    Well, as a formation of the mobile reserve, it is necessary to leave the year of conscription, increasing the draft age to 21 years, or replacing the draft with mandatory military fees for those liable for military service, say, once every two years.

    And the model of the contract army in its modern representation (as it is now) can be used as an initial transitional stage to the system I described above.
    something like this :)
  • Corsair
    Corsair 18 September 2013 11: 41 New
    0
    The title of the article:
    Shoigu: military registration and enlistment offices are no longer chasing draft diversions
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 18 September 2013 11: 53 New
    +3
    I remembered at the end of the 80s all the graduates of the guys gathered at the military registration and enlistment office they handed out tests (some were cunning ..) in short, out of the whole mass, 5 people were selected (to go to a military school), but there was an ensign (unlearn ... you will serve abroad .. a lot of money .. women are dark .. everything!)))) then the troubled times began .. But what’s the point ... The selection from the schools was already going on, they selected the best in terms of development and psychological Sustainability An officer in the USSR, a prestigious and respected profession was the Elite (to defend the MOTHERLAND!) It’s now being reborn, but I think the selection of officers is almost 10 years old. to cook (military-patriotic circles, etc.) It is necessary to create a cult .. Here is something I so wanted to express
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 18 September 2013 12: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: MIKHAN
      but I think the selection of officers almost 10 years should be identified. to cook (military-patriotic circles, etc.) It is necessary to create a cult

      My good friend, a lieutenant colonel, was unable to attach his grandson to the Suvorov School in St. Petersburg. General’s grandchildren crossed the road. Something like that.
  • smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 18 September 2013 11: 58 New
    +8
    Somehow like this...

    Yours! hi
    1. NORILCHANIN
      NORILCHANIN 18 September 2013 19: 38 New
      +1
      PERFECTLY AT THE POINT, PUTIN AND SHOYU NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS PROBLEM.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 18 September 2013 12: 12 New
    +4
    He served as an officer in the 70 of the last century. The staff of the unit would be soldiers. But we did not allow them to enter technology (they served 2 of the year). The soldiers were engaged in cleaning the premises, repairing equipment, etc. Servicing sophisticated electronic equipment involved officers and warrant officers. So, back in the last century, we have already abandoned conscripts. Another thing is tank troops, motorized infantry, railway troops, etc. there you can’t do without urgent service. Yes, and the mobile reserve must be cooked. Nobody has canceled the war.
    1. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 18 September 2013 17: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      it is necessary to prepare a mobile reserve. Nobody has canceled the war.


      A sober thought is always at a price. THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING, IMMEDIATELY IMMEDIATELY - THERE ARE NO EXIT OFFICERS !!!!
  • Just
    Just 18 September 2013 12: 20 New
    0
    Quote: 225chay
    Quote: Apollon
    I think in my opinion at times to increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.

    The bureaucracy should be reduced dozens of times, and not only in the Ministry of Defense, but throughout Russia. Nakhlebnikov will soon be more than producers of hard workers with peasants


    The bureaucracy must be reduced hundreds of times. And not only in the Ministry of Defense and Russia, but in the whole world. To drive a filthy broom to the street of all these managerial managers.
    Here's how to write.
  • Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder 18 September 2013 12: 45 New
    0
    I absolutely disagree with the fact that conscripts are considered only for cannon fodder. What do you think that only an officer can skillfully defend his homeland?
    just like in the 19th century, when the officer could be the one who was born an aristocrat, and everyone else was a soldier.
    Fortunately, Napoleon came and began to introduce reforms into the French army, any soldier could become an officer, for this it was necessary to show all his best qualities, first by courage in battles, then managing the squad, platoon and so on.
    And now? nothing seemed to have changed from Tsarist Russia. A general or colonel is sitting for himself, and commands though no one has combat experience, that is, I am 100% sure that this general did not run in the pants of a soldier.

    I propose to equip the army entirely from conscripts, and for two years not to engage in combat training and painting curbs, but most of the time to learn how to master technique and physical exercises. Let those who studied at the academy, as officers, teach them. And I suggest that the soldier be given the opportunity to choose where to serve, rather than shove to where he lacks according to plan. Here I am, a jacket, motorized rifle, but who asked me whether I want this specialty or not, maybe I'm a sniper from God, or a tankman. There would be courses I went to study.
    1. iSpoiler
      iSpoiler 18 September 2013 14: 57 New
      0
      Then go to the contract and all things.)
      The main thing is to express desire and perseverance. Go to the pick point.
  • mithridate
    mithridate 18 September 2013 14: 33 New
    0
    But what about this same mobilization reserve ???
  • NSG42
    NSG42 18 September 2013 15: 34 New
    0
    Quote: 225chay
    Quote: Apollon
    I think in my opinion at times to increase the monetary allowance of contractors by reducing the bloated bureaucracy.

    The bureaucracy should be reduced dozens of times, and not only in the Ministry of Defense, but throughout Russia. Nakhlebnikov will soon be more than producers of hard workers with peasants

    As always. One with a bipod, and semerol with a spoon.
  • SHOCK.
    SHOCK. 18 September 2013 16: 22 New
    0
    Quote: 225chay
    Nakhlebnikov will soon be more than producers of hard workers with peasants

    Well said, but "they don’t surrender their own."
  • Druid
    Druid 18 September 2013 16: 28 New
    +3
    Quote: vladimirZ
    Without a draft army, without a mobilization reserve that is being prepared for military service, Russia, due to its large territory, thousands of kilometers of border, numerous neighboring states, of which most are potentially hostile, cannot create an effective army that can defend Russia's territorial integrity .
    Is the experience of the history of our state does not teach anything.
    I agree, this is an axiom and not only for Russia. Throughout the ex-Sovka, history is rewritten a hundred times for itself without respecting or honoring its lessons, without making conclusions.

    Quote: vladimirZ
    and reserve officers (as personnel officers call them “jackets” now) had insufficient team skills, BUT they quickly learned and broke the back of the Nazis.
    The officer, or rather the commander, I like it more, it’s impossible to learn, for example, specialists in many professions, according to my personal observations, almost half, if not more, staff officers in the war frankly say “random people”. And your humble servant was a jacket and his direct boss and many colleagues were also jackets, all graduated only from military departments at their universities, but we had an education, i.e. real knowledge and life experience. Our laborer was commanded by a laborer in the world, from where the Lord knows the talent, but his mines flew more precisely than the US tomahawks.

    Quote: gunnerminer
    The government is not able to create acceptable living conditions for officers, as it can promise something to candidates for contract.
    Bytovuha is a scourge ... In Russia, it was lucky that there was a crisis when there was nowhere to put in place the housing built and under construction, they remembered veterans and officers and supported cowards to businessmen at the expense of the budget, and so many apartments would not have seen.
    The main reason why I did not want to stay in the army. I don’t need handouts, provide office housing at the duty station, and then it’s not your business — pay with dignity, and I’ll figure out where and what to buy housing, instead, a bunch of bureaucrats in uniform ass warms in their offices and pocket "solving my housing problems" . The state should be engaged in housing for the officer’s family only in the event of his death.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 18 September 2013 18: 26 New
    +2
    Lecture at the institute. The lecturer says: "Who is ready to skip my lectures throughout the year?" Forest of hands.
    -"Are you sure?"
    “Yes!”
    The teacher opens the door: "Come in, Comrade Major. It seems I can help you save the draft plan."
  • ioann1
    ioann1 18 September 2013 18: 57 New
    0
    It is a pity that not everyone can serve 5 or 25 years, because even one year in the Army gives a man a lot. Maybe they will still find in MO the opportunity to make a 1 or 2 year emergency for not very important specialties. Young people must be at least a little bit, but serve the homeland!
  • Al Asad
    Al Asad 18 September 2013 19: 25 New
    +1
    It seems that few people also need a mobilization squad. They can’t normally call for training. They don’t know at the military enlistment office when the planned West 2013 exercises will begin)))) fellow
  • NORILCHANIN
    NORILCHANIN 18 September 2013 19: 29 New
    +2
    I’m a military radio telegrapher and I think that now there may be no such profession. I served for 3 years, studied for 6 months and worked for 2.5 years and upgraded qualifications to grade 1. And what profession you can learn in one year with the current complex technique is not clear. after at least 2 years of a contract with a very good salary. Most of our youth are good guys and girls, and some people who hold power are, to put it mildly, not very, but it will be rude to have one MAT.
  • NORILCHANIN
    NORILCHANIN 18 September 2013 19: 32 New
    +1
    completely to the point !!!!
  • Basilevs
    Basilevs 18 September 2013 20: 24 New
    +1
    ... The complexity of weapons systems is such that we will not prepare a conscript for at least a year, even for two so that he can fight on these weapons "... - These are golden words !!
  • AlexP47
    AlexP47 18 September 2013 22: 45 New
    +1
    It’s quite realistic to train a motorized infantry / machine gunner / grenade launcher for a year of service (naturally, if properly taught, and not “dressed up” in household work and outfits in the dining room and not toil about idleness in the barracks). For other simple VUSs, also quite conscripts, year-olds will do. Going on guard is not necessary to recruit professional contractors.
    On complex equipment (communications, fleet, aviation, Strategic Missile Forces, Air Defense, Airborne Forces, etc.), semi-trained boys have nothing to do!
    Another question that needs to be raised is the prestige of military service: a ban on civil service for those who did not serve for disrespectful reasons (as was done in Belarus), benefits for higher education, seniority (1 year for 1,5-2), etc. .
    In general, you need a balanced mixed principle of manning.
  • albai
    albai 19 September 2013 08: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Apologet.Ru
    There is a phrase - a career officer. Therefore, here it is more correct, as it seems to me personally, and it will sound professionally - personnel, personnel. Private / sergeant of the frame sounds quite worthy! No?

    I completely agree. Moreover, the professionalism of the Army needs to be raised to the proper level, at the level of training of officers, only more emphasis should be placed on the practical possession of weapons and equipment, and tactics should not be overlooked. As one of the major military leaders said, "every soldier must know his maneuver." Well, of course, a full social package. So that the soldier does not think of himself outside the Army, and knows that he has nothing to do on a civilian.
  • Druid
    Druid 19 September 2013 12: 06 New
    0
    Quote: NORILCHAN
    I’m a military radio telegrapher and I think that now there may be no such profession. I served for 3 years, studied for 6 months and worked for 2.5 years and upgraded qualifications to grade 1. It is not clear what profession you can learn in one year with the current complex technique.
    You forget about colleges (technical schools), normal specialists still come out from there, even despite the current mess. Another thing universities in the whole CIS divorced as dogs uncut, stamping dash that, while technical schools zilch. There can be no real need for such a number of highly qualified specialists in any country, it is necessary to revise the education system, which incidentally flies to every country a pretty penny, the army cannot live separately from society and in no army in the world can they ever pay a highly qualified specialist more than citizen, the army can only give stability and social guarantees, like any civil service in general.
    And about the complex equipment in the army, alas, I will disappoint, a modern tractor, combine, excavator, bulldozer or even an asphalt roller for components and systems such as an engine, transmission, hydraulics, electrical system, are more advanced than modern BMPs, BMDs, the main tank made in Russia or Ukraine. Modern automated lines are far superior and also more advanced are automatic tank loaders or self-propelled guns.
    So I think there is no need to discuss supposedly stupid conscripts, you just need to build a normal state, a normal education system and be selective when called up, there is a state education standard, on the basis of this, draftees with secondary special education should be distributed. Now, youth from the military registration and enlistment office only gets to driving schools, and here is the result.
    It is useless to cook from conscripts with triples and deuces and 8 classes of education of a wireless telegraph operator; conscripts with special education are another matter, the benefit is to the army and the state as a whole. Emergency service is not only defense and reserve, read the arguments and calculations of Italian scientists from various fields who opposed the abolition of the draft in Italy.
  • KOH
    KOH 23 September 2013 06: 10 New
    0
    Quote: Wyalik
    No_more
    A professional army is certainly good. But what if, God forbid, war be? The losses of the army will be big, but who will replace the contract soldiers then?
    Those who don’t know how to disassemble the machine? In my opinion, there should be an army of professionals and those who can at least partially replace them. In Russia, there has always been a training system for soldiers, so we need to revive it.


    Who to replace? I’m 50 years old, they were deregistered at the military registration and enlistment office, but I don’t feel like a pensioner, I think the honey commission should have passed, they recognized the person as unsuitable and then goodbye, I know so many of my peers that will give young odds, it seems to me from the register must selectively shoot, especially if there are several military specialties ...
  • vel19777
    vel19777 13 October 2013 22: 33 New
    0
    we need a draft army! Nonsense to defend the homeland for money. All wars were won by the people who knew which side to hold the gun