China offers Bangladesh Russian submarines of the project 636

From a high-ranking source in the Indian Navy, which has connections at Russian shipbuilding and ship repair enterprises in Severodvinsk, our blog learned that China is offering Bangladesh to acquire two large diesel-electric submarines of the Russian-built project 636 from the PLA Navy. According to preliminary information, we are talking about submarines with Chinese onboard numbers "374" and "375" (factory numbers 01701 and 01702), built on the Northern Machine-Building Enterprise in Severodvinsk under the 2002 contract for the construction of eight submarines for China 636 project. Under this contract, five boats were built for the People's Republic of China at the Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg, one at the Red Sormovo plant in Nizhny Novgorod, and two at the Sevmash. Both Severodvinsk boats were commissioned by the PLA Navy in December 2005 of the year and delivered to China in the summer of 2006 of the year. Why China chose for the proposal of Bangladesh boats of Severodvinsk built is unclear.

According to an Indian source, the Russian representatives and the administration of Sevmash and CS Zvyozdochka are aware of these intentions of the Chinese, but cannot in any way prevent them, although it is obvious that the Chinese side has no rights to sell Russian-built submarines parties, as well as the right to carry out and repair and maintenance of these boats from a third party.

Transported to China on the transport vessel Eide Transporter, the diesel-electric submarines of the 636 project with the serial numbers 01701 and 01702 built for the PLA Navy at the Northern Machine-Building Enterprise in Severodvinsk. June 2006 of the year (c) shot from the presentation of the company Eide Marine Services AS / www.deepstorm.ru

Also, an Indian source said that the Indian Navy made a decision in principle to carry out second medium repairs of four of its diesel-electric submarines of the 877EKM (08773) project, which had previously undergone the first repair in Russia. At the same time, only two boats will undergo medium repairs at JSC CS Zvezdochka in Severodvinsk, and the Indian side intends to carry out repairs on two other boats on its own. It should be noted that the Indian Navy has not yet performed the first average repairs on its three boats of the 877EKM project, so there is reason to believe that the epic with the repair of Indian boats will stretch for a long time.

In addition, an Indian source reported that, due to the recent loss of the Sindhurakshak submarine of the 08773 project, the Indian Navy leadership decided to force the long-lasting tender to buy or build six non-nuclear submarines under the 75I program, which was stuck in the initial stages. harmonization of requirements. A request for the provision of technical information (RFI) to companies participating in the tender should be sent out by the end of this year.

Comments

[ShturmKGB]

The Chinese are apparently going to arrange the release of boats themselves ...

[donavi49]

It has long been established, but not 636 clones, but somewhat different ones, our project with our help.

[xetai9977]

The Chinese are rapidly developing markets, including the military, in Southeast Asia, Africa and Latin America. Carrying out a competent policy, they have greatly pushed the Americans and Europeans out of these markets and are gaining a foothold by bringing in Chinese labor and investment. In Africa, they manage to buy up land in thousands of hectares, ensuring their agricultural safety for a rainy day. Those who, out of the old habit, look down upon the Chinese are wrong, they are very wrong. Whether technology steals, whether they copy, but by any means they DEVELOP. In a very short time, the impoverished country became a superpower, the second economy in the world!

[Ka-52]

The Chinese are rapidly developing markets, including the military, of Southeast Asia ..

All of the above is true, but in Africa, the land is cheap and the climate is good for harvest. Now calculate how much labor you need to invest in 1 hectare of land, where is the thread in Siberia and you will understand that the Chinese do not need it. But the minerals and the forest, yes. But it is already sold by ours to everyone who is not lazy, so what's the point of straining ?!
If you look at the Atlas of the world,

According to some data in the Asian region: in Indonesia - 7,5 million Chinese, in Malaysia - 6,1 million, in Singapore - 2,6 million, the Philippines - 1,1 million, Japan - 519 thousand, Taiwan - 22,5 million ... In Europe, the countries with the largest Chinese population are: France - 230,5 thousand, the Netherlands - 145 thousand, Germany - 105 thousand, Great Britain - 297 thousand ... In South and North America: USA - 3,3 , 1,3 million, Peru - 1,6 million, Canada - XNUMX million ...

http://chinatoday.ru/articles/skolko-kitaycev-v-mire.html

So a person is looking for where heat and food are cheap, and the Chinese are also able to earn money ..

[zennon]

Wrong, those who, according to the old habit, look down at the Chinese, are very wrong.

What can I tell you ... What about the classic: "there is no such crime that capital would not go for the sake of 300% profit"? The West has been transferring production to the rank for 30 years for a simple reason - the FZP in the cost of their products in Europe and mattresses is 40%, and in the rank of 5% ... How exactly we have lived these last 30 years, I think there is no need to explain. them military equipment, but what to do? But not everything is so simple. The trick is that the rank itself cannot do anything! They are absolutely dependent on both technologies and sales markets. You can't even imagine how much! As for "development", then here's a simple fact for you: my father graduated from the university in the 56th year. He said that the ranks there were like not slaughtered dogs! They all received first-class education from us. So what? Where are the Chinese engineers who have made the world happy with the wonders of technology? made by our engineers educated at that time, no need to explain. Where is the rank ?! They are not capable of creating anything, which means how they were and will be led in this world. A country whose workplace instead of a drawing board is a copier-mediocre and has no future , and success in promproduction does not belong to them, but to foreign companies. As soon as a political decision is made, then there will be no trace of the rank as a pro-industrial power ...

[igor.borov775]

Complete nonsense !! The rite in 30 years has completely changed, it’s not at all what you draw, I’m just sad how many lies have been wrong since Gorbi by the way, he tried to arrange something similar there, what happened to us there just gave an answer to these specialists very tough and quickly cleared the power apparatus of such specialists, When a party congress was taking place in China, all the central channels drove like everything about China, About the history of the present and the future of this country, It was necessary to watch and listen to what fairy tales they say embarrassed, And it said and not journalists, but people invested with power, And most importantly, our specialists seriously thought about how many republics will become in the future when China collapses, And these are people denounced by power, What can we say about ordinary people of our country if such slops rush through the central channels, Of course it’s insulting and there it’s just They chose the Prime Minister and the entire top leadership resigned without the right to hold public office, It's simple and nice to hear that for 10 years, we’ve tried everything, give your place to the young, And this action is called in Chinese, it’s very simple a generation change, But I’m talking about something else Yes, the crisis struck, the rank simply could really successfully choose the time, the Americans were busy with the bankruptcy of the auto giant and the rank announced a competition for the construction of new turnkey plants, Everyone rushed in and offered everything that they could really have a choice, you think nothing happened you’re mistaken, they even got what they never at any other time never got at stake was almost a trillion bucks, they played it according to all the rules, Recently, the Chinese Prime Minister said two or three years later, China will begin to change and despite the fact that it starts triplets or finishes construction, By the way Dreimler will spend two billion euros on the construction of his enterprise, you will be interested to know what kind of screwdriver is being built there, I want nothing more than honest information, And you don’t need to broadcast noodles to everyone on this site, The country launching its astronauts into orbit of the earth it can’t be only a screwdriver country, And the steps in space are being made by our quick wise men now seem to be depressed, I would like to find a good record of what was said and done in Daylian at the largest economic Asian forum, There is probably a lot of interesting

[APASUS]

ShturmKGB

The Chinese are apparently going to arrange the release of boats themselves ...

Apparently China has already copied our boats to the last bolt ......

[Mr. Gambu4aS]

All the details are copied, the submarines are no longer needed, I won’t be surprised that a dozen have already been laid down, and something has been improved! Generally pounded and abandoned!

[darksoul]

ShturmKGB

The Chinese are apparently going to arrange the release of boats themselves ...

It’s sad to say .... China is a neighbor, but I wouldn’t want that a neighbor has grown into a monster .... and their army is developing at an alarming rate ... in such a short time, so many directions can be covered ...

[donavi49]

The Chinese have been wanting to get rid of the Sevmashev boats for a year now, why? It is not clear.

[Odysseus]

Quote: donavi49

The Chinese have been wanting to get rid of the Sevmashev boats for a year now, why? Unclear

Good question. I don’t think there are any problems. Why should they sell crooked boats to an ally? Rather, Bangladesh asked for adequate submarines at a reasonable price.
Here are 636 and they give it to the PRC, but they have enough of them. Do not push the mines to them.

[alone]

Quote: donavi49

The Chinese have been wanting to get rid of the Sevmashev boats for a year now, why? It is not clear.

there are only two options.

1) a traitor sat down in them and slowly ruins the army and navy (the option is excluded )

2) they already have in the project or finished boats that are already better than Sevmashevsky.
(but this is quite real, knowing how they can copy)

[Evgeniy667b]

Again a hackneyed topic: the arms trade and the consequences! When it only comes to the empty heads of peddlers from "Oboronexport" and others like them, that it is criminal and is a betrayal of national interests. Their fleets are hardly replenished with anything, so only tears. And then you look and it will be too late.

[donavi49]

Well, here we are building more than 80 ships and submarines for our fleets. Just china ordered in 2002 year and received in 2006, we ordered in 2011 and get in 2014.

[alone]

Quote: donavi49

and we ordered in 2011 and will receive in 2014.

But will we get it?

[Revolver]

And then the people approve of the sale of the SU-35 to China. Someone even put forward the idea of ​​selling them "Kuznetsov" and "Peter the Great". Well, now they already want to weld on the submarines of the Russian project. And they will copy the SU-35 and will snatch it on the cheap to potential Russian customers. Does Russia need it?

[donavi49]

Did they sell a lot of J-11 / 15? And Su-30MK / Su-27СМ?

On the boats there is a dark story with some problems.

[Odysseus]

Quote: Nagan

And then people approve of the sale of China SU-35

Yes, it seems that no one approves. They do not. As for copying an airplane, this is doubtful. Rather, they will copy the engine.

Quote: Nagan

Someone even put forward the idea of ​​selling them "Kuznetsov" and "Peter the Great"

Peter doesn’t need it, we need it yourself. But Kuzyu can. It’s not clear what to do on the Northern Fleet. And most importantly, knowing our current realities, they’ll put it on a long-term repair, and adieu ... No money, no ship.

[Revolver]

Quote: Odyssey

. It is unclear what to do on the SF

That's right, the place is his place in the Pacific Fleet, otherwise someone expressed interest in developing the Arctic, while not having their own Arctic coast.

Quote: Odyssey

Rather, copy the engine.

This is hardly likely. That is, there may be a design, but they did not have technology, no, and will not be soon. The clone will most likely work (question: how?), But will have to be changed after each flight.

[zennon]

This is hardly likely. That is, there may be a design, but they did not have technology, no, and will not be soon. The clone will most likely work (question: how?), But will have to be changed after each flight.

Bravo Mr. Revolver! Exactly.

[Trailer]

Some sources just do not say anything. Consequently, some of the Indians do not like something in our deals with China.

[smiths xnumx]

Russia has only two allies, I think you know which ones.

The ally does not engage in industrial theft. China will have to be "accepted as is" - they are stealing from the whole world. In a sense, everyone and always spied on each other and stole technology. But China in this sense simply takes the cake, came out on top in arrogance.

Then just have time to turn around - the next point will be 677.
"China will purchase four Project 677E submarines"

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/411307.html

It remains to take only quality. China is still taking in quantity.

China has raked many times, now they are probably racking their brains on what to do with it.

Fools will not beat each other with clubs for the amusement of NATO. Most likely there will be an attempt to China-Taiwan, followed by the most serious match China-Japan, these are the games. Naturally, IMHO. Yours faithfully!

[Algor73]

China takes in quantity and cheapness only in post-Soviet countries. In the markets of Europe and America (in developed countries), Chinese products have long been satisfied with quality and competitiveness.

[Revolver]

Quote: Algor73

China takes in quantity and cheapness only in post-Soviet countries. In the markets of Europe and America (in developed countries), Chinese products have long been satisfied with quality and competitiveness.

In Europe, I don’t know, but in America, as they took at the price, they take, but the quality does not become much more. Another thing is that there is often no alternative. In normal stores like Sears, and even decent ones like Macy's, all the rags are Chinese, and shoes, and household appliances. There are European imports in expensive stores, but the prices are prohibitive. And the American cannot be found, the industry either went to countries with cheap labor, or went bankrupt, because there is no way to compete against Chinese prices.

[zennon]

Russia has only two allies, I think you know which ones.

Four. Another Air Force and Strategic Missile Forces. Regards!

[igor.borov775]

Well, why offend the Chinese, we have friends — the neighbors will share what you think he only trades with us, and in vain Ukraine also tries to sell something; there is one weapon school,

[waisson]

oh well done they didn’t give a damn about the arrangement and with the money raised they ordered new submarines from us and we built them and if we did something like that they would condemn ve

[Wedmak]

The Chinese not only copy everything from the whole world, but now they also decided to ignore the treaties? And after that they still have to sell Su-35 !!! ?? Our brains do not have chtol? You still sell them Boreev and T-50. A couple of pieces.

[Ruslan_F38]

According to an Indian source, the Russian representatives and the administration of Sevmash and CS Zvyozdochka are aware of these intentions of the Chinese, but cannot in any way prevent them, although it is obvious that the Chinese side has no rights to sell Russian-built submarines parties, as well as the right to carry out and repair and maintenance of these boats from a third party.

Are there really no tools to influence China and force them to fulfill the terms of the treaties? Or swallow again? Su-35 they should not be sold in any case.

[shpuntik]

At the same time, only two boats will undergo medium repairs at the Zvezdochka CS in Severodvinsk, and the Indian side intends to repair the other two boats on its own.

India follows the path of China - learning to repair and build. There is confidence that in our country there were figures who sold ready-made ships with weapons in the 90s, and now they are driving oil, gas, and electric energy there. With this approach, in 10 years, we will not sell a single submarine for export.
Our production is more expensive, mainly due to the cold climate. If we reduce the heat loss for heating the workshops and provide low-cost electricity, we could compete with China and Korea freely.
But when supplying energy to China, at a price less than European, we ourselves are cornered.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

China is a mysterious country .. and it will still present a surprise to the whole world .. Russia I hope to know this and is preparing. (And not only militarily ..)

[Rustya]

Judging by the fact that the 677 Lada project is our most modern project, I don’t even imagine what 636 is like. This summer in Kronstadt I had the opportunity to look into the Lada. This is the beginning of the twentieth century. I would immediately give the submarine a star of the hero for the fact that, in principle, they can be there for more than a day. So on the account of Bangladesh I can understand the Chinese. I hope that everything will change in the future

[Rustya]

I don't know how long you can write about it. Perhaps the weapons in it are modern. I don't understand. But the sensations were nasty. Pipes, wires, shovel wooden chairs, communications from Soviet films about the war. I generally keep quiet about the cabins. Twenty times my head hit everything I could. From the outside, of course, it looks more solid. I thought that this is probably how it should be in a submarine, but one sailor said that they were on a Swedish boat, then there are completely different conditions. Super modern. In defense, I can only say that our boats are more sharpened for armament and almost the entire space is filled with "weapons" and means of survivability of the boat. That is ... die, but complete the combat mission and hold out as long as possible. Westerners seem to have a slightly different ratio in the organization of the space of the boat. Smaller weapons, but better "living conditions". And if they hit it, then they will not fight for its survivability. Immediately into the vests, the SOS button and up.
And I apologize to the specialists. Just saying, as a layman with a purely civic impression. And at the expense of the photo ... well, there is. True, it was forbidden to take pictures inside. Although, to be honest, nobody stood over the soul. But if you really want to, then I'll show it. But in general, the sailors from the boat said that the project was damp. But the point is not in the dampness, but in the retro equipment that shocked me.

[Rustya]

Yes, I myself was upset. But ... she's the first in this series. As far as I understood, an experimental sample was collected from what it was. And what could have happened at the factory ten years ago. Now, I hope, they will finish it. (IKIA will at least buy furniture) But anyway, to serve for such two years ... to put it mildly hard;)

[Rustya]

Yeah ... fun. But the heat is also crazy there. "age-old" layers of paint I can't understand why it is impossible to paint normally and accurately. Lada has the same garbage and torn off linoleum in places :(

[ROA]

Taki do not need to sell military equipment anywhere. After all, everyone is well aware of China's desire for copying.

[Sergey Medvedev]

Quote: Bezarius

To summarize, for China, the war with the Russian Federation is extremely unprofitable and pointless, and they perfectly understand this.

I strongly disagree. China is now one of the largest consumers of natural resources. Russia is the largest owner of natural resources. Here's a motive for China's attack on Russia. There is another largest consumer of resources - the United States. The economies of China and the United States are so strongly integrated that the term "Chimerica" ​​has already appeared (so far only among economists). Here's a bunch of our enemies based on mutual interests. So I don't trust the Chinese. We need to prepare for a war with them. And in conjunction with China, the United States and its allies - to prepare for war with half the planet.

[Mugs]

Reading comments about a possible war between the Russian Federation and China, I have long been tormented by one question ...
Mongolia is one of the three countries in Asia, the most endowed with minerals. In terms of area on the 18th place in the world. The population of Mongolia is less than 3 million people. The number of the Armed Forces is 8,6 thousand people. (2007)! The border with China is common. Tidbit, take it - I do not want.
So why is it still independent ??? If China has not even climbed into such a country, then what kind of war between Russia and China can we talk about?

[igor.borov775]

And why did Erdenet simply go over to the Chinese in the days of the BNE? Why fight tungsten and molybdenum goes as it should be, everything is fine,

[forester]

Quote: xasharat

The paradox is that, with their own hands, they gave them everything from the atomic bomb to the drawings of all Russian novelties. We ourselves create a monster.

I blame the officials.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have no guarantee that this monster with the same weapon will not trample to the north.

In recent years, they have very great needs and desires.
Though kill, I do not chisel these Chinese.

Already rushing, not only with the help of weapons, but in a more efficient way, they come, settle, breed, surviving the indigenous population. A real case, the Chinese bought a sawmill at the timber industry farm, cut the local salaries in half, they quit, they brought their own in their place, there is no other work in the village, the locals quietly left, the Chinese took their houses. Here is a Chinese village in the Russian Federation, and there are dozens of such cases. I'm not talking about their peasants whose activities are a threat to the environmental and food security of the country and the health of the population, and I do not exaggerate - I myself saw the places where their greenhouses were - dead land does not even grow wormwood and thistles for years.

[individual]

China is becoming the thorn of legal lawlessness in foreign trade and economic practice.
First in the unlicensed piracy of defense industry products.
Now in the unprincipled international law.
No one wants to contact him, and therefore there is no government for him.

[mithridate]

Quote: individ

China is becoming the thorn of legal lawlessness in foreign trade and economic practice.
First in the unlicensed piracy of defense industry products.
Now in the unprincipled international law.
No one wants to contact him, and therefore there is no government for him.

that's for sure

[Was mammoth]

I think that it is necessary to link future contracts (and they will be), whether it be weapons, gas, oil or something else, depending on the good faith of the performance of previous contracts by the Chinese. They cheated, it means a zero or a triple price. For the risk. Specialists need to calculate such options. "After a fight, they don't wave their fists." Previously, you have to wave. So that it is not "offensive".

[jasper]

brek hot tanny guys
better tell me how many tanks are left in the Nenko in the ranks? with crews?

[scientist]

Probably just like the Russians are afraid of the Chinese, the Europeans are afraid of Russia for one simple reason - it is very big, we are afraid because there are too many of them. Reasonable arguments of course
But it was correctly noted that China badly needed resources and now they have built a powerful oil pipeline across Kazakhstan from the Caspian and thanks to corrupt officials in the Kazakh government they are quickly and confidently buying up the entire oil and gas industry from their eastern neighbor. They also operate in the Far East of Russia. Naturally, if profit is going somewhere, then there is a decline somewhere, therefore, the growing Chinese economy must be protected. World practice shows that international law is a very weak guarantee for investment, and today investment in the economy of other countries in China is almost $ 1 trillion.
I think that we can learn a lot from the Chinese, for example, the fight against corruption, controlling the ambitions of the oligarchs, the fight against alcoholism, etc.
Recent events in the circle of Syria is another confirmation that the modern struggle between Russia and China is doomed to close cooperation.

[igor.borov775]

Yes, what is it about, Our officials traveled to China for XNUMX years to study experience, The result is not what our officials decided for our open spaces, They are stupid to spend money on developing their industry where they can only look for new technologies and try to find a seller of such technology, One trouble as we have money flowing abroad as they only have the difference in China is the very production of the full cycle and we just have trouble there is no need to build and look for everything ourselves, Well, they don’t have any fantasies about their native China, trouble is baked,

[igor.borov775]

In general, there is a rational grain in this whole discussion. It turns out that many people want to know what is happening in this neighboring country. Almost five years have passed since the crisis struck what has changed and what is hard to say in China, but when the tallest person in the country says China must be listened carefully, in Vesti = 24 they somehow showed how they destroy an almost three-kilometer automobile bridge, I had a look at this action wildly, and a Chinese civil engineer explained that the bridge built in the 70s of the last century caused narrow traffic jams the place, And the bridge with four in-line traffic, He explained that the bridge between the two provinces became a brake, they are developing rapidly and the bridge is already a hindrance, After the explosion, the bridge was shown that they built it higher and wider and the movement in one direction in four rows, The plot was short and that’s all, And we just have to take all this into account, the Chinese Prime Minister announced a real struggle for quality will begin from the new year, Of ​​course he recognized that it’s hard to do it right away, but they will do it, And the Americans have another problem, many cool specialists who worked in America and received an excellent education are leaving for their homeland in China, it turns out that we are essentially different

[Ramadan]

Do not be so afraid of the Chinese.
They also have their weak points and they cannot do without serious losses. Firstly, no one canceled a nuclear strike (if we have nothing to lose). Secondly, even if a preemptive strike is made on the Three Gorges Dam, then for China it will be a real catastrophe on a national scale! I think one hint of this will cool even the hottest heads in them. And there is no need, as one of the members of the forum wrote, to destroy 1 million Chinese a day, because it is not effective with them. If desired, other objects can be found where a large-scale disaster can be organized. It is possible that similar measures will be taken in response, but to fight like this (God forbid, of course) ...

[Aeneas]

I think the political subtext of the Chinese proposal is interesting. Bangladesh is the former East Pakistan, the state gained independence largely thanks to India. By itself, Bangladesh is a rather poor state on the verge of poverty. And now it receives such offensive weapons as submarines from China, India's rival. If Bangladesh accepts the Chinese proposal, then a conflict looms between the "senior partner" and patron in the form of India, its competitor in the region, China. At the same time, China is also an ally of Pakistan, of which Bangladesh was a part, and in the fight against which Dhaka gained independence (with the help of India) ... So the Chinese want to separate the old partners (India and Bangladesh) by presenting an apple of discord (submarine), and follow up the subsequent reaction.

[Spike]

The Chinese "copier" works fine, and our entire industry is going downhill ... Some traders FAT. Or am I wrong?

[nazgul-ishe]

While China needs us as a market and raw material base. Technology is a great thing, but it needs industry. And you also need to be able to copy. Remember TU4, an atomic bomb, a VAZ, and with modern military equipment there’s nothing to say, we all steal from each other. Only this must still be able to do well and properly exploit.

[scientist]

As practice shows, the most reliable way to protect yourself from any threats in the modern world is the close integration of the economy and investment. Of course, we need a reasonable compromise between the economic security of strategic industries and the volume of foreign investment. But it seems to me that if investments are mutual, especially in high technology industries, then everyone will benefit from this. But foreign investment in commodity sectors as a rule does not justify itself. I think it would be interesting to create a couple of joint ventures in the defense industry with China.