Will Russia buy the only Ukrainian cruiser?

264


Missile cruiser "Ukraine" will become Russian. At least, such information has appeared in the media. In particular, we are talking about the fact that Russia has expressed its willingness to pay for an unfinished missile cruiser, which has been at Nikolayevsky Shipbuilding Plant for almost two decades, 1 a billion rubles (approximately 30 million dollars).



According to the Ukrainian expert on defense and security issues, Vladimir Likhodovsky, such an agreement for Ukraine is to some extent advantageous, but not as much as one would expect. At the same time, Russian representatives, on the contrary, are confident that the price offered is quite acceptable for an unfinished ship.

First of all, it should be noted that the project of the Ukraine missile cruiser was developed at the Northern Design Bureau in Leningrad. Until 1998, it was called "Admiral fleet Lobov. " The construction of the ship was begun in 1984 at the Nikolaev Shipbuilding Plant. The customer was then the Navy of the Soviet Union. It was assumed that the cruiser will become the fourth vessel of the Atlas project 1164, besides him, the project included the cruisers Moscow, Varyag, and Marshal Ustinov.

This missile cruiser has a width of 28 meters, a length of 187 meters, a draft of the order of 8,5 meters, and a displacement equal to 11,5 thousand tons. According to the project, the vessel should be armed with 16 installations of anti-ship supersonic basalt missiles P-500, 64, Fort-C-300, 40 missiles, Osa-M anti-aircraft missiles, several RBU-6000, as well as several torpedo missiles five-tube apparatus and three batteries of 30 mm AK-630 guns.

Six years later, in 1990, the “Ukraine” was launched. In October 1993, the ship, ready for 75 percent, was withdrawn from the Soviet Navy and transferred to the ownership of Ukraine. Then its value was estimated at 720 million dollars. The following year, a crew was formed specifically for the cruiser, but in 1996, the construction of the cruiser was suspended due to lack of funding. At the same time, about 6 million hryvnia was allocated annually for the maintenance of the ship from the state budget.

In February 1998, the Ukrainian head of state decided that the cruiser should be completed. The crew was re-formed and re-dissolved, and the cruiser’s readiness increased to 95 percent. Then there was another attempt to form a crew. And in 2004, the decision to open the cruiser for excursions appeared.

In general, it should be noted that at present the situation with a warship is increasingly reminiscent of history with a suitcase without a handle, which is inconvenient to carry, and it’s pitiful to quit. However, there is one serious difference: the story of the ship, it seems, has received at least some development.

As we mentioned above, according to defense and security expert V. Lidohovsky, the deal is partly beneficial for Ukraine, because the Russian side intends to buy a cruiser built at 95 percent, with the exception of the Bazalt missile system, at the cost of scrap metal. By itself, the amount in 30 of millions of dollars is too small for Ukraine, but directly for the plant “61 of Communard” - it is pretty decent, because for twenty years of building the ship, the company has spent much more money to maintain it. During this time period, some of the equipment has already become outdated, so there is a need to either replace it or upgrade it. But this is not a problem. The problem lies in the "Basalt" complex, which can only be supplied by Russia. According to the intergovernmental agreement, Ukraine has no right to sell a cruiser with the Bazalt complex without special permission from Russia. Thus, Russia for two decades and she did not buy the cruiser, and did not allow Ukraine to sell it. Lidokhovsky also noted that at the beginning of the new century, the Russian side was already trying to buy this missile cruiser, but at that time the deal was not made. In 2005, in the framework of bilateral negotiations between representatives of the military departments of Ukraine and Russia, it was decided that there was no need to finish building the cruiser, since neither the second country nor the state needed it anymore.

A new attempt at negotiations took place in 2008. However, at that time, the then Minister of Defense of Ukraine, Y. Yekhanurov, stated that no specifics had been reached on the negotiation process. The politician also noted that Ukraine does not need such a cruiser, since it is not advisable to use it in the waters of the Black Sea, and it can only be used in the ocean. And really, what is the point of keeping a combat unit capable of hitting any target with the help of standard weapons, without departing from the pier? Therefore, it is much easier for Ukraine to maintain the cruise armament subdivision, rather than spend money on the completion of a very expensive ship.

Then the main problem was precisely in arming. The fact is that the unfinished five percent consisted of the most powerful anti-ship missiles of the P-500 missile complex Basalt, as well as the naval version of the C-300F anti-aircraft defense system. These systems are produced in Russia, but Ukraine could not buy them due to certain circumstances: the fact is that armament with a range of 500 kilometers is prohibited for sale. A warship without weapons is nothing more than a big barge. In the 2010 year, however, also failed to agree.

In the 2010 year, information appeared again that Russia intends to buy the cruiser Ukraine and complete its construction, since Ukraine is unable to do so. This was stated by the Ukrainian President V. Yanukovych. The Russian representatives confirmed this statement, stressing that a cruiser of this class could become part of the Russian fleet, because it already has three similar vessels.

In the same year, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine adopted a resolution abolishing the assignment of the name "Ukraine" to the missile cruiser. In the explanatory note to this resolution it was noted that such a name is not appropriate, since neither the completion of the vessel, nor its adoption by the Ukrainian Navy is not provided.

In 2011, Anatoly Serdyukov, the then head of the military department in Russia, said that Russia was ready to take a cruiser for nothing, not even at the cost of scrap metal. Only then can the options for the participation of Ukrainian enterprises in its completion be considered.

As for the current negotiations, there is information that the Russian side intends to tow the ship to Severodvinsk for inspection, after which it will be decided either to complete it or to convert the ship to a special-purpose vessel. Russian shipbuilders are ready to prepare the necessary bill by the end of this year, suggesting Poltava or Izmail as variants of the names. It is also possible that the cruiser will eventually become a source of spare parts for the three cruisers, which are already in service with the Russian Navy.

Materials used:
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/txt.asp?id=327428
http://www.mukola.net/news.php?id=54157
http://sergio.at.ua/forum/4-2794-1
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

264 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +14
    16 September 2013 07: 36
    The main thing in this matter is a conscientious and competent assessment - do we need it in this form, and how soon we will be able to put it into operation and in what form, it may be easier and cheaper to build a new one, and let the "Ukraine" remain - visual symbol of the "power" of the Ukrainian Navy
    1. +82
      16 September 2013 07: 51
      Quote: svp67
      But do we need him in this form,

      Needed! If you manage to buy it, then for designers and carabelles life will be much easier. He has the basis, it remains to install updates. Get ATLANT version 2.0! If you build a ship from scratch, money will take much more, especially time! Another ship of the ATLANT project will definitely not be superfluous to us!
      1. Turik
        +40
        16 September 2013 08: 11
        Yeah ... The Slav brothers survived. Well, they would sell some other pelvis, but a cruiser with the name "Ukraine"?!? If I were the politicians who had brought their country to such a shame, I would have shot myself.
        1. +18
          16 September 2013 08: 53
          Well, Duc under the Union "sawed" unfinished battleships under the name ... "Soviet Union"! And wow, the Union did not collapse at all then.
          1. +7
            16 September 2013 21: 36
            And in 1998 the aircraft carrier Varyag was sold. Beauty.
        2. Misantrop
          +6
          16 September 2013 10: 42
          Quote: Turik
          In the place of politicians who brought their country to such a disgrace, I would shoot myself.
          Not with our happiness ... sad
          1. Nitup
            0
            16 September 2013 16: 31
            Quote: Misantrop
            Misantrop

            Let me ask, why are you a misanthrope?
            1. Misantrop
              +2
              16 September 2013 21: 38
              Quote: Nitup
              Let me ask, why are you a misanthrope?
              By character. I get tired of stupidity very quickly. You can even turn off the computer, but if you live ... sad
        3. +2
          16 September 2013 11: 16
          Turik (1) RU Today, 08:11 ↑ New

          Yeah ... The Slav brothers survived. Well, they would sell some other pelvis, but a cruiser with the name "Ukraine"?!?
          Duc from that and renamed (by securities) in the object "N" feel Although the name was not ripped off the board fellow
        4. +2
          16 September 2013 11: 35
          It doesn’t work, pistols have already been sold for a long time)))
        5. +4
          16 September 2013 13: 28
          There is already everyone on the drum, to tear off a piece of bucks and then a holiday.
        6. 0
          16 September 2013 20: 41
          Quote: Turik
          Yeah ... The Slav brothers survived. Well, they would sell some other pelvis, but a cruiser with the name "Ukraine"?!? If I were the politicians who had brought their country to such a shame, I would have shot myself.


          C'mon - well, at least both countries didn’t completely fall apart - remember that, thanks to the traitors Mechenom and EBN, they worked with the army and navy. It is bad that a new united state cannot be built without a significant incentive.
          And we need a ship - at least as a special vessel. destination.
        7. coast
          +1
          18 September 2013 00: 11
          do not buy it! money Maxim will leave even more he is really empty! I really want to see him under our flag. but such a gift to Ukraine in this situation, they will decide with whom they will see along the way
        8. 0
          3 October 2013 01: 08
          Turik (1) RU September 16, 2013 08:11 ↑

          Yeah ... The Slav brothers survived. Well, they would sell some other pelvis, but a cruiser with the name "Ukraine"?!?
          "Ukraine" remained only on board smile Probably out of shame for the sale in the documents it is called "object N" or "former cruiser Ukraine"
        9. +1
          24 March 2017 16: 31
          Quote: Turik
          .The brothers lived the Slavs. Well, they would still sell some pelvis, but a cruiser with the name "Ukraine"?!?

          How much in the 90s was sold, plundered and sawn into scrap metal in Russia, you can also shoot yourself from shame. The fact that in the 91st with ... s..if the USSR is the main thing, universal disgrace ...... and at the beginning of the century the Russian Empire ...... "How much space we have, how much blue, how much shame, how much winter we have. ... "E. Letov.
          It can, of course, be beneficial to buy a cruiser at a reasonable price, who knows, but for me than to help out Bandera’s money, it’s better to build your newest and most modern. That in the Russian Federation workers, engineers, designers received a salary.
        10. -1
          April 5 2018 11: 57
          It is necessary to shoot Serdyukov, who could cheaply take over the cruiser and finish building. but the liberal protege preferred the French Mistrals, and how it ended ... But Serdyukov pardoned for the collapse of the Armed Forces, including the divisional structure, which Shoigu was rebuilding ....
      2. Captain Vrungel
        -43
        16 September 2013 08: 42
        Can "Aurora" be updated? She's in the best condition. How long will it take to update. This is to take a step back 30 years. The time of these dreadnoughts is running out. He is not becoming an "aircraft carrier fighter." He's just a target for aircraft carriers and not difficult. 20 minutes impregnable fortress turning into a floating scrap metal warehouse. And "Ukraine" is a ready-made barge for disposal. Different architecture of ships, different technologies and materials, different purposes and weapons. Today "Atlanta" are ships "Fear" in peacetime.
        1. +23
          16 September 2013 08: 48
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          Can "Aurora" be updated? She's in the best condition.

          And put on the Moscow River in front of the Kremlin! fellow
          1. 0
            16 September 2013 14: 49
            Quote: Egoza
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Can "Aurora" be updated? She's in the best condition.

            And put on the Moscow River in front of the Kremlin! fellow

            ... with a legendary weapon directed at him ... this:

            1. +3
              16 September 2013 15: 21
              Three revolutions are not enough for you ???
              1. 0
                18 September 2013 07: 14
                Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
                ex revolution is not enough for you ???

                we will deal with our revolutions ourselves, but you are a miserable squalor ..... lie down
          2. +1
            16 September 2013 17: 58
            Quote: Egoza
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Can "Aurora" be updated? She's in the best condition.

            And put on the Moscow River in front of the Kremlin! fellow

            Read or listen to M. Weller - "Messenger from Pisa"
            1. +1
              23 March 2017 19: 35
              This ShWeller is already knocking down glasses on a television channel in a fit of anger. He’s fit in a psychiatric hospital, and you suggest reading it.
          3. -1
            18 September 2013 07: 11
            Quote: Egoza
            And put on the Moscow River in front of the Kremlin!

            cardboard dope, Peter the Great of the same project, and the other three leaders ........
            1. 0
              23 March 2017 08: 32
              Quote: hert
              Quote: Egoza
              And put on the Moscow River in front of the Kremlin!

              cardboard dope, Peter the Great of the same project, and the other three leaders ........

              So Peter is pr.1144 eagle, and Ukraine is pr.1164 atlant.
          4. 0
            4 October 2013 14: 52
            Quote: Egoza
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Can "Aurora" be updated? She's in the best condition.

            And put on the Moscow River in front of the Kremlin! fellow

            Why mock history? ...
        2. -1
          16 September 2013 08: 50
          I agree with Yuri. Without commissioning the ship is already outdated morally. Look at the look of new generation ships!
          1. +54
            16 September 2013 10: 07
            Quote: xetai9977
            Look at the look of new generation ships!

            And which ship of the new generation should I look at, maybe Ticanderogu or Arly Burke? And what is special about these tin cans? Or are you talking about the undership of a zumbolt. laughing
            Quote: xetai9977
            Without commissioning, the ship is already outdated morally.

            The warship is not an iPhone for you, enough to chase after all sorts of Western standards and other fashionable advertising adornment, your head should be on your shoulders. The ship is primarily a platform, and how you stuff it, it depends on imagination and opportunities, which is always abundant in Russia. I suppose the Russians should take such a ship, so the Moscow State Customs Control Group entered the SM and it became clear to everyone who the Master of the Seas!
            1. +18
              16 September 2013 10: 29
              Bravo, a ship like Moscow WE NEED
            2. +11
              16 September 2013 15: 14
              I agree completely! Moreover, it is 95% complete! Okay, there would be one more building, but there were no settings, and everything is there. I’m cramming with electronics, maybe the power plant will be changed and that's it.

              To enlarge the image, right-click on the image and open.

              1. 0
                3 October 2013 01: 23
                Lord Sith SU September 16, 2013 15:14 p.m. ↑

                I agree completely! Moreover, it is 95% complete!
                The ship is definitely needed, I think Russia is still "showing off" in order to drop the price or even bargain for something and take it. Moreover, the price of $ 30 million for a ship, even if it is 60-75% ready (according to Russia), is small, while Ukraine has only 6 million hryvnia. per year for the content "eats" and sense 0. hi
            3. +1
              16 September 2013 17: 28
              I think that the cost of putting a ship into operation is excessive.
              Quote: SPACE
              The ship is primarily a platform, and how you stuff it depends on your imagination and capabilities.
              Of course, this is a platform with its own properties that you can’t change. We need to see how much we need it.
            4. Captain Vrungel
              +2
              16 September 2013 17: 29
              "Ticonderoga" 22 ships 1986-1994.
              1. +1
                18 September 2013 09: 50
                Quote: Captain Vrungel
                Ticonderoga "22 ships 1986-1994.

                Well, and our project is written in the ancients, ..... nonsense
            5. Captain Vrungel
              +3
              16 September 2013 17: 34
              Destroyer "Arleigh Burke" -62 ships 1991-2012
            6. Captain Vrungel
              +2
              16 September 2013 17: 43
              "Ticonderoga" -22 cruisers

              "Arlie Burke" -62 destroyers

              "Oliver X Perrat" - 19 frigates.

              "Cosmos", although not shipped, although cans, but in service and on the move.
              1. +1
                16 September 2013 20: 49
                Quote: Captain Vrungel

                "Ticonderoga" -22 cruisers
                "Arlie Burke" -62 destroyers
                "Oliver X Perrat" - 19 frigates.
                "Cosmos", although not shipped, although cans, but in service and on the move.

                Not yet evening! Stars are waiting for their Heroes!
          2. +16
            16 September 2013 11: 03
            Quote: xetai9977
            I agree with Yuri. Without commissioning the ship is already outdated morally. Look at the look of new generation ships!

            oh okay, even if the look is not modern, but the filling can be made very modern. Both rockets and electronics - everything can be at the highest level. And he never ceases to be a "killer of aircraft carriers". As well as his gathering Varyag, Moscow and Marshal Ustinov.
          3. +19
            16 September 2013 11: 27
            I do not agree with you,
            The cruiser "Ukraine" was launched in 1990, our "partners" have aircraft carriers sailing on seas that are 3 times older. so you need to take and upgrade.))
          4. +2
            16 September 2013 11: 38
            Not a specialist in marine subjects, but there is a question.
            Appearance in what sense: appearance, appearance of the on-board armament control system or something else?
          5. +8
            16 September 2013 11: 52
            xetai9977 (2) AZ Today, 08:50 ↑

            I agree with Yuri. Without commissioning the ship is already outdated morally. Look at the look of new generation ships!
            I don’t think that everything is so sad, 1. The Russians are still bargaining (a billion rubles. This is the Ukrainians want), even if they don’t finish building the "spare parts" for the repair of "Moscow", "Varyag", and "Ustinov" are still needed. 2. " The filling "(if any) will be modern. 3. Even for so many years," Atlanta "bypasses all AUG (just in case)
            hi
            1. Penek
              0
              18 September 2013 22: 09
              We have billionaires, like in the United Arab Emirates. Just a hint, they will redeem a bucket (300 dollars each) and armed with nanotechnology (another 100 each).
          6. 0
            16 September 2013 20: 43
            Quote: xetai9977
            I agree with Yuri. Without commissioning the ship is already outdated morally. Look at the look of new generation ships


            So it can be upgraded before commissioning. Another thing is that Yes - it is outdated, BUT our fleet vitally needs new powerful warships.
          7. -1
            18 September 2013 07: 19
            Quote: xetai9977
            Without commissioning the ship is already outdated morally. Look at the look of new generation ships

            seaworthy and combat qualities do not depend on what various durilists draw. The equipment of the reb is capable of many, many, many ..........
          8. 0
            4 October 2013 15: 05
            If the readiness is really 80-90%, then for that kind of money you should take it. And with such weapons, he will even make a rustle from the pier. When will we get new ones of this class ... And if the "Volcano" is installed? And it will not matter from what "trough" the pendal flew in ...
        3. +2
          16 September 2013 10: 43
          Vrungel, what will you drown?
        4. 0
          26 March 2017 22: 42
          God forbid! Yes, equip the "Gauges"! And she, out of habit, “Beat your own so that strangers would be afraid”, will no longer fuck in the Winter, but in the Kremlin!
      3. +5
        16 September 2013 13: 26
        During this time, many components and assemblies could become unusable, at the moment they are not produced anywhere and there is a high probability that they will not be able to be produced (there are no capacities, specialists, documentation) and in this case the only thing that remains is "cannibalism" from the same type of project , for a while, it can and will fit us for 5-7 years no more, it's time to build new projects.
      4. 0
        18 September 2013 07: 07
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Needed! If you can buy it, then for designers and carabelles life will be much easier

        there is a case, there is a power plant, - hang up the rest
      5. 0
        18 September 2013 17: 48
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Another ship of the ATLANT project will definitely not be superfluous to us!
        Even if there was one case, in my opinion it would already be worth buying. This is the most time consuming part of the ship. And Russia has a need for such ships. A cruiser of the Moscow type is a good argument in conversations with stubborn opponents. In Ukraine, he would still go "on hairpins", and Russia I hope to dispose of them in a businesslike way. Yes
      6. const 197
        0
        17 October 2013 15: 23
        It would be stupidity if they buy something worse than that with the Mistrals. The box was launched 23 years ago and, although it stood against the wall of the factory, it rusted, it never went up the dock, its care was mediocre at best. It will take at least 2-3 years to install weapons, two to three years for sea trials, and Russia will receive a board of 30 aging. In decent countries at this age, ships are being written off. It looks like this cruiser with a creak and for a very tidy sum for the next 10-15 years under the Anreev flag and under the laughter of our very likely enemy, and a cut. Wasteful and expensive.
      7. const 197
        0
        17 October 2013 15: 29
        Not needed! Box launched 23 years ago. And although she stood at the wall in the factory, rusted, did not rise in the dock and was serviced mediocre at best. Two or three years will be spent on the installation of Russian equipment and weapons, another two or three years on sea trials and we get a cruiser of almost thirty years endurance. Irrational and expensive.
      8. 0
        17 June 2017 21: 52
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Quote: svp67
        But do we need him in this form,

        Needed! If you manage to buy it, then for designers and carabelles life will be much easier. He has the basis, it remains to install updates. Get ATLANT version 2.0! If you build a ship from scratch, money will take much more, especially time! Another ship of the ATLANT project will definitely not be superfluous to us!

        As they say in Ukraine - “thought is wealth”. "" - this is not about you, it is such a proverb. But do you really believe that Ukraine (?!) Will sell Russia (?!) A cruiser? Russia, of course, could buy it if it wanted (!), But only through someone, for example, through Mongolia.
    2. +6
      16 September 2013 08: 37
      Quote: svp67
      A new attempt at negotiations took place in 2008. However, at that time, the then Minister of Defense of Ukraine, Y. Yekhanurov, stated that no specifics had been reached on the negotiation process. The politician also noted that Ukraine does not need such a cruiser, since it is not advisable to use it in the waters of the Black Sea, and it can only be used in the ocean. And really, what is the point of keeping a combat unit capable of hitting any target with the help of standard weapons, without departing from the pier? Therefore, it is much easier for Ukraine to maintain the cruise armament subdivision, rather than spend money on the completion of a very expensive ship.

      Yanuk would sell it to China in spite of everything) Pre-cut ... But seriously, of course, such a ship is needed even in this form.
      1. +5
        16 September 2013 09: 39
        it’s easier to build a new one, otherwise it will turn into a bottomless barrel for laundering budget money
        1. ka5280
          +3
          16 September 2013 09: 47
          And in Nikolaevsk, is the water fresh or salty? The issue of corrosion of the underwater hull.
          1. +32
            16 September 2013 10: 22
            Quote: ka5280
            And in Nikolaevsk, is the water fresh or salty? The issue of corrosion of the underwater hull.

            Not in Nikolaevsk, but in Nikolaev. At the plant of the 61st communard, the water is fresh, and at the plants of ChSZ and Okeane it is mostly fresh, but sometimes salt water also blows from the sea.

            I used to be on this cruiser, everything is in order with corrosion. It is only necessary to replace electronics and weapons. SU has never changed.
            1. vkrav
              +12
              16 September 2013 11: 41
              "Everywhere you were, you saw everything!" (C) laughing
              Ukraine was rotten when the last time they were planning to buy it ... And the Chinese therefore refused. And with regard to the readiness of 95% this is wishful thinking ... Everything that can be unscrewed is stolen in the first place. Very, very it’s a pity for the enormous work spent on the construction, but most likely, the cruiser will face the fate of everything that fell into the rakers of ukrov - they will cut it into scrap metal ... I would really like to make a mistake ...
              1. +10
                16 September 2013 12: 04
                vkrav (3) SU Today, 11:41 ↑ New

                "You were everywhere, you saw everything!" (C) laughing
                Ukraine was rotten when the last time they were planning to buy it ... And so the Chinese refused
                "Ukraine" is not rotten, and it was not sold to the Chinese because Russia was against it (it is not "quite" Ukrainian) And the Chinese wanted to buy it.
                And about the readiness of 95% is wishful thinking ..
                I agree here smile The Russians estimate its readiness from 65% in 2006 to 50% in 2010.
                1. -2
                  18 September 2013 07: 27
                  Quote: ksan
                  Ukraine was rotten when the last time they were planning to buy it ... And so the Chinese refused

                  such a leader is impossible for the Chinaman, these are the ships of a great power (for them he is too burdensome)
            2. ka5280
              0
              16 September 2013 12: 03
              Thanks for the answer. I understand that there was a steam turbine SU?
            3. 0
              10 December 2017 18: 12
              The hull has been on water for over 25 years. Docking with replacement of a part of a covering and a set is necessary. The condition of the shaft shaft bearings is unknown, routine scrolling is unlikely to be carried out regularly. The power plants (boilers, turbines, gearboxes) after such long-term storage are rather in poor condition, since reconservation was not carried out due to lack of money. The foundations for armament are likely to require rework, cables will require redeployment, or even a change in routing. In general, it’s easier and cheaper to build a new one. All this conversation could be conducted with respect to the corps aged 3-5 years. And this one is definitely on nails and needles.
        2. -9
          16 September 2013 10: 16
          Quote: strannik595
          it’s easier to build a new one, otherwise it will turn into a bottomless barrel for laundering budget money


          That's what they are buying along the way! There is no other explanation! Once it was pride and not a ship, but now it is a piece of rusty iron.
          Another thing is if he was followed, etc., and he is 30 !!!! years stood rusted! From it pulled out all the wiring and much more. The metal has rotted 40%! Nothing good can be done from it.
        3. +1
          16 September 2013 10: 37
          Quote: strannik595
          it’s easier to build a new one, otherwise it will turn into a bottomless barrel for laundering budget money

          They buy it at the price of scrap, so if the truncation is so neglected, then they will cut it ...
        4. Misantrop
          +18
          16 September 2013 10: 44
          Quote: strannik595
          easier to build new
          Not easier. And you can also cut money on the construction of a 6-oar yard, there would be a desire
        5. +9
          16 September 2013 11: 21
          No, not easier. The article very reasonably stated it. What is 30 lyamas? Yes, you do not make spare parts for the other three for this money. Running then neyuzannaya stands there.
          Not empty inside. And the body and bottom will be primed and painted to a shine in a month!
          PS And when building from scratch, the loot is not sawn? )
    3. +6
      16 September 2013 10: 22
      Quote: svp67
      , and let "Ukraine" remain - a visual symbol of the "power" of the Ukrainian Navy

      It will not remain, about the sale of the Russian Federation most likely a duck. We have not heard anything about it.

      The leadership of the State Enterprise “Shipbuilding Plant named after 61 Communards” offers to disassemble and implement the systems, mechanisms, device and armament of the unfinished missile cruiser “Ukraine”. This is stated in a letter from the plant’s director general Vladimir Berko to the head of the Ukroboronprom state concern, Sergey Gromov, dated August 29, 2013, the text of which is owned by the editors of Crime.
      “For 20 years, the issue of completing the construction of the cruiser, or of selling it to third countries has not been resolved. Despite the decisions of the highest authorities, both in terms of completion and implementation, questions remained without permits. Based on the regulatory and technical documentation, the systems mounted on the ship, mechanisms, devices and weapons are morally and physically obsolete and will not be suitable for further operation, "the letter says.
      Based on this, the management of the enterprise asked Ukroboronprom State Corporation for consent and permission to prepare a draft resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine to write off the order, dismantle and implement systems, mechanisms, devices and weapons.

      "This decision will allow the state to abandon the costs of maintaining the cruiser and partially cover the costs (of the plant - PN) for the construction and maintenance of the cruiser. The solution of these issues will also allow the proceeds from the sale of goods and materials, equipment and the hull of the ship, to send to pay wages, repair and restoration of slipway No. 3. The main result of resolving the issue by order of No. 1148 (cruiser "Ukraine") will allow conducting economic activities on slipway No. 3 for its intended purpose, "said Vladimir Berko, general director of the 61 Communards Shipyard.



      This type of cruiser is redundant for the Ukrainian Navy. Secondly - I personally asked how much - I didn’t get an answer to whether there are Vulcan missiles for the cruiser in our warehouses

      And if there were (vryatli) it would be better to make 3-4 coastal stationary rocket batteries.
      1. Misantrop
        +26
        16 September 2013 10: 48
        Quote: Kars
        A cruiser of this type is redundant for the Ukrainian Navy.

        That’s what is frankly redundant for Ukraine, it’s BP, coupled with the president. For centuries, the governor has more than enough lol
        1. +1
          16 September 2013 10: 50
          Quote: Misantrop
          m. For centuries, the governor has more than enough

          Well, yes, but taxes were not spent on the king? Of course))) look narrowly.
          Wb certainly grew cool and on the topic? Need a cruiser of the Navy of Ukraine?
          1. Misantrop
            +14
            16 September 2013 11: 35
            Quote: Kars
            Need a Cruiser Navy of Ukraine?
            It depends on the tasks that the country has set for itself. It is definitely not useful for walking along the Dnieper, and it is also useless for those aspiring to NATO. And here if in the same Nikolaev to build ships for sale of the same Russian Federation - why not? Britain builds for export, Germany, Scandinavia, Korea, etc. .. Is Ukraine so stupid and armless that it does not need a shipbuilding industry? Not for China (which orders one copy for the sole purpose of intercepting technology). The world is full of countries that want to acquire modern ships, but do not have opportunities for their own construction.
            Well, yes, but taxes were not spent on the king? Of course)))
            Now any deputy is more expensive, not counting the election campaign lol
            1. +8
              16 September 2013 12: 24
              Quote: Misantrop
              And here if in the same Nikolaev to build ships for sale of the same Russian Federation - why not?

              For this, Ukraine needs to join the Customs Union, otherwise there will be no Russian orders.
              Quote: Misantrop
              The world is full of countries that want to acquire modern ships, but do not have opportunities for their own construction.

              The markets have long been divided, the only market where Ukraine can break through is the Russian market, and this is again a vehicle.
            2. +2
              16 September 2013 13: 23
              Quote: Misantrop
              And here if in the same Nikolaev to build ships for sale of the same Russian Federation - why not?

              and what’s the connection? We have a specific ship, and not some hypothetical ones. And is there a place for a heavy missile cruiser to be a part of the Ukrainian Navy.
              I personally think that .. the killer .. the aircraft carriers Ukraine does not need, can not afford.
              Quote: Misantrop
              ) The world is full of countries that want to acquire modern ships, but do not have opportunities for their own construction.

              And how many of them need a heavy missile cruiser, and for which countries this member of the NATO Turkey will pass this ship through the straits.
              Quote: Misantrop
              Now any deputy is more expensive, not counting the election campaign

              Well, it’s necessary the Romanovs lived in poverty)))
              1. Misantrop
                +4
                16 September 2013 13: 49
                Quote: Kars
                I personally think that .. the killer .. the aircraft carriers Ukraine does not need, can not afford.
                With the current set of weapons and with the current tasks - and in fact "not a hat for Senka." Is it already weak to re-equip to fit your tasks and needs? Probably - yes, the engineering and design potential has been lost ... request

                Quote: Kars
                Well, it’s necessary the Romanovs lived in poverty)))
                Shall we compare the Massandra Palace with the hatyns of the "people's choices"? wink
                1. +1
                  16 September 2013 14: 22
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Converting to your tasks and needs is already weak

                  And what do you propose to convert to? Well, for example? And it will not cost the sum of the construction of five small corvettes?
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  With the current set of weapons and with the current tasks - and in fact, "not a hat for Senka"

                  in your performance it sounds so dismissive - you are surely pleased with yourself.
                  and such a ship does not have the majority of NATO member countries
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Let's compare the Massandra Palace with the Khatyns of the "people's choices"

                  and why from Massandrovsky? let's go from Zimny ​​in St. Petersburg? Or the palaces of the Grand Dukes? at the same time, most deputies have their own business, etc. And then you will begin to compare with Akhmetov
                2. -1
                  16 September 2013 20: 52
                  They and Zaporizhzhya above the roof. They if that NATO will protect. Like the Baltic states.
              2. 0
                18 September 2013 07: 37
                Quote: Kars
                Well, it’s necessary the Romanovs lived in poverty)))

                it seems like their accounts are not canceled, and the loot is downloaded from them ............
          2. 0
            18 September 2013 07: 32
            Quote: Kars
            Need a Cruiser Navy of Ukraine?

            no, of course, because there is a Russian Black Sea Fleet
      2. +2
        16 September 2013 13: 31
        For the Ukrainian Navy, according to the logic of your leadership, any vessels other than inflatables are redundant, you will be the last to know that they were sold hi
        1. +1
          16 September 2013 13: 34
          Quote: tilovaykrisa
          For the Ukrainian Navy, according to the logic of your leadership, any vessels other than inflatable vessels are redundant,

          Well, that’s how you want to think so. Until I order corvettes. Patrol boats and so on.
          Quote: tilovaykrisa
          that you were the last to know that it was sold

          We do not live under the USSR
          1. +3
            16 September 2013 15: 11
            I would like to think that Ukraine will have a strong and modern fleet and it will be a reliable ally of the Russian Federation.
            1. +2
              16 September 2013 15: 14
              Quote: tilovaykrisa
              I want to think that Ukraine will have a strong and modern fleet

              I would like to believe it.
              1. 0
                3 October 2013 01: 34
                Kars (3) UA September 16, 2013 15:14 p.m. ↑

                Quote: tilovaykrisa
                I want to think that Ukraine will have a strong and modern fleet

                I would like to believe it.
                In this capacity (rocket support), Ukraine certainly does not need it, and there is no weapon of its own. Well, let's hope that not always in Ukraine will be SO fellow There will be a holiday on your street smile
            2. xan
              -2
              16 September 2013 21: 54
              Quote: tilovaykrisa
              I would like to think that Ukraine will have a strong and modern fleet and it will be a reliable ally of the Russian Federation.

              Russia has an ally in the army, navy, and also Gazprom and Rosneft.
              The rest of the fellow travelers.
            3. -1
              18 September 2013 07: 41
              Quote: tilovaykrisa
              Ukraine will have a strong and modern fleet and it will be a reliable ally of the Russian Federation

              I do not believe they are not capable .....
      3. +2
        16 September 2013 14: 57
        Quote: Kars
        Secondly - I personally asked how much - I didn’t receive an answer whether there are Vulcan missiles for the cruiser in our warehouses,

        there are Black Sea Fleet warehouses, and in both equipment options ...
        1. +1
          16 September 2013 15: 08
          Quote: PSih2097
          and there are Black Sea Fleet warehouses, moreover, in both equipment options ...

          I’m glad for them. But I was only interested in Ukrainian warehouses. And is it really allowed to keep nuclear weapons in Crimea?
    4. rolik
      +7
      16 September 2013 12: 04
      Quote: svp67
      , and let "Ukraine" remain - a visual symbol of the "power" of the Ukrainian Navy

      In such situations, as with the Ukrainian fleet, the Zaporozhye Chaika will soon become the symbol of its "moschi", photo is attached.
      And such a ship as "Ukraine", I think, will not be superfluous. The main thing at the moment is the hull and superstructures. Because the filling, including the power one, will need to be changed. And it will not be difficult to bring the body to a suitable state with current technologies, there would be a desire and money.
  2. +9
    16 September 2013 07: 38
    Well, as a donor of spare parts, it may do ... And then "Moscow" is being driven like a ball, mercilessly knocking out the power plant resource ...
    1. +23
      16 September 2013 08: 26
      Quote: sergey72
      And then "Moscow" is being driven like a ball, mercilessly knocking out the power plant resource ...

      Rather buy "Ukraine" !!! Yesterday on TV there was a rumor about the fact that Russian ships, and in particular "Moscow" from Sevastopol, were heading for Syria, possibly with weapons. And this is happening on the Ukrainian territory .... In short, Svidomo nonsense on the topic "Russians in Sevastopol run as they want" BUT ... if Russia buys "Ukrainu" and drives it from Sevastopol with the same name, then what will they be able to bark? We'll have to shut up! laughing
      1. +3
        16 September 2013 08: 36
        Good day! Well, what can I tell you about TV nonsense ..... you need to limit yourself, but it’s better not to watch the zombie laughing .
        1. +7
          16 September 2013 10: 35
          I haven’t been watching TV for 3 years, I’m completely weaned.
          Now over 20 min. physically can't!
          and Moscow is a cool ship
      2. +5
        16 September 2013 08: 48
        The name "Ukraine" was recently taken away from the cruiser. They said - it is useless for an unfinished ship, which has been rusting at the pier for two decades, to have such a name))

        Although nothing prevents us from returning the title after purchase)
        1. +5
          16 September 2013 09: 45
          In my opinion, the name is very suitable for him lol
          1. +8
            16 September 2013 10: 36
            they have one fate !!!!!!!!!!!! tongue
          2. rolik
            +4
            16 September 2013 12: 45
            Quote: Tommygun
            In my opinion, the name is very suitable for him

            Would revive to life and christened again. They would give the name "Sevastopol", that would be yes)))))
      3. +5
        16 September 2013 09: 07
        Quote: Egoza
        BUT ... if Russia buys "Ukraine" and drives it from Sevastopol with the same name, then what will they bark?

        And in the Black Sea Fleet, another such boat will obviously not be superfluous.
        1. +3
          16 September 2013 10: 38
          Two "Moscow" together - BOGATYRSKAYA FORCE
      4. +18
        16 September 2013 09: 13
        Quote: Egoza
        In short, Svidomo nonsense on the topic "Russians in Sevastopol run as they want" BUT ... if Russia buys "Ukraine" and drives it from Sevastopol with the same name, then what will they be able to bark? We'll have to shut up!
        Yes, it would sound interesting - "Ukrainian mytniks (customs officers) did not let" Ukraine "into Ukraine" ...
      5. +4
        16 September 2013 09: 56
        I will be very glad if they buy and leave the name. A question of his condition.
      6. +3
        16 September 2013 10: 02
        Quote: Egoza
        BUT ... if Russia buys "Ukraine" and drives it from Sevastopol with the same name, then what will they bark? We'll have to shut up!

        Critical comment !!!! And really how so: "Ukraine" was driven? Here inevitably they will fall silent, and the reminder of brotherhood ...
      7. +5
        16 September 2013 11: 41
        Quote: Egoza
        BUT ... if Russia buys "Ukraine"

        Now I don't remember exactly, but in my opinion at the end of 89 in Avacha Bay the missile cruiser "Chervona Ukraine" anchored in the future, after the collapse of the USSR, "Varyag".
        So Ukraine alone was already in the service of the Navy. hi
        And as it is sung in the famous song of Captain Vrungel:
        "In the blue sea, as in a pharmacy,
        Everything has an essence and weight.
        Ship like a man
        The name is desperately needed.
        You knowingly give a name
        I'll tell you in advance
        What do you call a yacht
        So she will swim.
        What do you call a yacht
        So she will swim.

        Call Hercules
        And command forward
        And she is without an ice cutter
        The ice will break through the pole.
        And you’ll call a trough
        Do not get away from trouble
        This yacht and in the swamp
        Chokes on water.
        This yacht and in the swamp
        Chokes on water.

        In the blue sea, like in a pharmacy
        Everything has an essence and weight.
        Ship like a man
        The name is desperately needed.
        You knowingly give a name
        I'll tell you in advance
        What do you call a yacht
        So she will swim.
        What do you call a yacht
        So she will swim.
    2. eplewke
      +6
      16 September 2013 09: 06
      Here Ukraine is neither for itself nor for the people ... But such a ship is needed! And Russia needs it, and not the crumbling Ukraine, which is pushing itself to join the EU.
    3. 0
      18 September 2013 07: 46
      Quote: sergey72
      .. And then "Moscow" is being driven like a ball, mercilessly knocking out the power plant resource ...

      it’s the work of the fleet, to be where they send it, and do what is necessary. The Varangian also sang his song .........
  3. +5
    16 September 2013 07: 44
    I can imagine what it has become in twenty years past since it was built.
    1. +4
      16 September 2013 08: 27
      I saw him in Nikolaev. It costs rust, but, judging by the information, without a filling, so that you can equip everything with the most modern.

      Interestingly, when was the last time the bridge over Ingul was built? I hope the mechanisms still work))
    2. avt
      +1
      16 September 2013 09: 16
      Quote: Bongo
      I can imagine what it has become in twenty years past since it was built.

      In the "donor" for those who will be repaired. But I think it's too early to rejoice about the purchase.
      1. +5
        16 September 2013 11: 29
        But there are no exclusive parts on it. Russia can completely produce everything for its existing ships, so only for completion and service. For 20 years this is not yet a sentence for ships.
  4. ka5280
    +16
    16 September 2013 07: 44
    For 30 lemons of herbs, why not buy? In the end, for the Russian Navy, this will be only a plus. Regardless, whether it will be completed or dismantled for spare parts. The main thing is that the Chinese would not reach out to him.
    1. +3
      16 September 2013 07: 46
      Quote: ka5280
      The main thing is that the Chinese would not reach out to him.
      Well, there’s such a thing ...
    2. +7
      16 September 2013 09: 09
      Quote: ka5280
      The main thing is that the Chinese would not reach out to him.

      The main thing is that the curators from the Washington regional committee would not slow down the deal ...
    3. +1
      16 September 2013 10: 09
      The Chinese still offered it in 2002, refused.
      1. +1
        16 September 2013 10: 44
        In order to weld the case, they have nothing to do with their own work
      2. rolik
        +3
        16 September 2013 12: 50
        Quote: donavi49
        The Chinese still offered it in 2002, refused.

        The Chinese love especially not to worry about unfinished (in their opinion) ships. If he stood fully equipped with all systems, the Chinese would have grabbed him, no one would have time to come to his senses. A empty case, without filling, they are not interested.
        1. +1
          16 September 2013 13: 22
          Give the Chinese the development and documentation, and they themselves will weld the iron.
          I think that the blueprints for "Ukraine" have already been sold to them.
  5. +3
    16 September 2013 07: 49
    I - with both hands for the purchase!
  6. +11
    16 September 2013 08: 09
    Lish would again not bargain! winked The fact that he stood for so long does not mean that the ship is a "rusty basin", the plant maintained its technical condition. That is, at the price of scrap we get a ship in a tolerable condition with almost 100% supply of resources on the chassis. It will be necessary to carry out a thorough overhaul with an update of the electrical filling. As a result, we get an updated cruiser, which is now very much needed!
    1. rolik
      +3
      16 September 2013 12: 52
      Quote: NOMADE
      As a result, we get an updated cruiser, which is now very necessary!

      Absolutely, we pass the slipway stage right away. This is a huge time savings.
      1. +3
        16 September 2013 20: 39
        Quote: rolik
        Absolutely, we pass the slipway stage right away. This is a huge time savings.

        Would be a brother at the Pacific Fleet "Varyag" Here are the shooting of the same type "Moscow"
        1. 0
          18 September 2013 07: 53
          we will always find a bay for basing
  7. +7
    16 September 2013 08: 16
    It is clear that it will be very useful to us, but the amount for which we are ready to buy it is very ridiculous, it is unlikely that something will come of it, in Ukraine the opposition will simply eat the power after that, if it weren’t for 30 million, at least 150 is another matter.
    Although for me even if I paid 300 million, I would only have paid one fig, for all the same I will never see this money, but they steal amounts and more, and at least a cruiser.
  8. +25
    16 September 2013 08: 18
    Something I doubt, guys ... Now it's in vogue to put a spoke in Kiev's wheels ... There will be strategists who will prove that Russia does not need ships of this class, that Atlant is morally obsolete and will find a hundred more reasons for what to build a couple of dozen "Grachat" and other little things. Listening to them - so in ten years we will be left without cruisers at all. We will have an OVR and engage in coastal voyages ...
    But Russia is a maritime, oceanic power ... So I think this acquisition will not be amiss.
    And not for parts, but in operation!
  9. serge-68-68
    +33
    16 September 2013 08: 18
    Ukraine for sale. Inexpensive.
    1. +7
      16 September 2013 08: 28
      I also thought about it. Symbolically lol
    2. IGS
      +4
      16 September 2013 10: 08
      Quote: serge-68-68
      Ukraine for sale. Inexpensive.
      ... to spare parts. The ship can still be repaired, but ...
    3. 0
      16 September 2013 10: 48
      until it sank laughing
    4. 0
      16 September 2013 10: 59
      until it sank laughing
    5. 0
      18 September 2013 07: 56
      Quote: serge-68-68
      Ukraine for sale. Inexpensive.

      a year ago, the Balts offered themselves inexpensive Swedes who need them ......... herrings.
    6. Grigorich 1962
      0
      9 October 2013 22: 10
      Rather, it is selling out
  10. +3
    16 September 2013 08: 27
    The main thing is that the amers with the help of their friends who are sitting in the Verkhovna Rada would not interfere with this deal.
  11. +1
    16 September 2013 08: 28
    Quote: serge-68-68
    Ukraine for sale. Inexpensive.

    We must take it until the Chinese grab it :)
  12. +19
    16 September 2013 08: 28
    After the purchase, I propose to call MALOROSSIA!
    1. +2
      16 September 2013 10: 09
      Tse garno will be!
  13. 0
    16 September 2013 08: 32
    Now it’s like they don’t put the P-500 on Atlanta?
    1. +2
      16 September 2013 12: 44
      p-1000 Volcano in Moscow and Varyag, on Ustinovo p-500, but it is undergoing major repairs and modernization.
  14. +4
    16 September 2013 08: 32
    If only everything would grow together. I really want to have in every fleet in Atlanta feel
    1. +3
      16 September 2013 15: 03
      Quote: Llyric
      If only everything would grow together. I really want to have in every fleet in Atlanta feel

      Why the hell do you need it in the Baltic ??? let him serve at KChF.
      1. 0
        16 September 2013 17: 42
        Quote: PSih2097
        Why the hell do you need it in the Baltic ??? let him serve at KChF.

        Quote: PSih2097
        Quote: Llyric
        If only everything would grow together. I really want to have in every fleet in Atlanta feel

        Why the hell do you need it in the Baltic ??? let him serve at KChF.

        and Moscow to the Pacific Fleet (after kapitalki)
      2. 0
        17 September 2013 09: 13
        It can be assigned to the BF, but let it go everywhere where necessary. Again from Kaliningrad, he will be able to keep the entire north of Europe under supervision, as if by the way ...
        1. 0
          17 September 2013 15: 42
          And what he will keep it there. With standard armament>?
  15. 0
    16 September 2013 08: 35
    And now that it is impossible to build such ships from scratch in their shipyards?
    1. +8
      16 September 2013 08: 41
      On what? Nikolaev shipyard "mother" of all "Atlantes" ...
    2. +8
      16 September 2013 08: 45
      citation — First of all, it should be noted that the project of the Ukraine missile cruiser was developed at the Northern Design Bureau in Leningrad. Until 1998, he was called "Admiral of the Navy Lobov." The construction of the ship was started in 1984 at the Nikolaev Shipbuilding Plant. The customer then was the Navy of the Soviet Union. The cruiser was supposed to become the fourth vessel of the 1164 Atlant project, besides him, the project included the cruisers “Moscow”, “Varyag” and “Marshal Ustinov”.
      1. +1
        16 September 2013 09: 36
        Apollon, I think the number of officers is indicated incorrectly.
        34 officers on such a ship?
  16. +6
    16 September 2013 08: 40
    ... and a displacement of 11,5 tons. What's that? Skiff? And you need to buy, it will not be superfluous.
    1. +3
      16 September 2013 10: 03
      Quote: Seaman
      11,5 tons displacement

      I also noticed a mistake. In general, the author constantly calls the cruiser a ship. The eye cuts simply.
      For sane money to buy, I think it is necessary. The inefficiency of missile cruisers, which many talk about, has not yet been proven. The war will show ...
      1. 0
        18 September 2013 08: 03
        Quote: matRoss
        The inefficiency of missile cruisers, which many talk about, has not yet been proven. War will show.

        Well, well, where did the Augs run then ...
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. Vrungel78
    +1
    16 September 2013 09: 02
    And I'm glad for "Ukraine". Finally she will cease to be a circle laughing
  19. Akim
    +7
    16 September 2013 09: 04
    For thirty million dollars, you can’t buy one marine helicopter now. Apparently they wishful thinking. It is better to saw it. Although Russia needs ships of the destroyer class and the cruiser. And it does not matter how to replenish - you need the number and faster. Even if Russia had bought URG frigates from China, that would have been the case.
    1. 0
      18 September 2013 08: 05
      Quote: Akim
      Although Russia needs ships of the destroyer class and the cruiser. And it does not matter how to replenish - you need the number and faster. Even if Russia had bought URG frigates from China, it would have been

      Stuffed your place in the sarcophagus, next to Ramses 2
  20. +10
    16 September 2013 09: 04
    Quote: Turik
    In the place of politicians who brought their country to such a disgrace, I would shoot myself.

    Our politicians have neither shame nor conscience.
  21. largus886
    +3
    16 September 2013 09: 15
    They will not sell out of principle, but a cruiser is needed!
    1. 0
      16 September 2013 18: 01
      Quote: largus886
      They will not sell out of principle, but a cruiser is needed!

      Modernization will come out more expensive than the new one. How is it with its engines? Yes, and the docks are busy, they’re setting Kuznetsov for 5 years. Don’t you trust the Ukrainians?
  22. Yoshkin Kot
    +4
    16 September 2013 09: 17
    I can’t believe that they will sell, such conversations have been going on for a long time, I’m afraid it will turn out like with the Ukrainian gas transmission system
    1. 0
      18 September 2013 08: 14
      Quote: Yoshkin Cat
      I can’t believe that they will sell, such conversations have been going on for a long time, I’m afraid it will work out like with the Ukrainian gas transportation system

      peace enforcement is becoming a fashion chip, and Ukraine needs a lot .........
  23. Yoshkin Kot
    +9
    16 September 2013 09: 18
    will not sell, such conversations have been going on for several years, they want billions for it, and not as a "Varyag" sold to the Chinese, they are ukrointsy
  24. +6
    16 September 2013 09: 20
    "The killer of aircraft carriers" is not out of date for us, and let the alligarchs not huddle - $ 30 million ... a free price, they steal more, each one! a large rank, so they would bargain with misrals!
  25. Gennady1973
    +4
    16 September 2013 09: 21
    You must definitely buy! A lot of time and money will take to build a new one. 30 million seeds in comparison with the same Serdyukov took away, and here is a handsome ship! Refresh armament, a little repair and that’s all!
  26. ka5280
    +3
    16 September 2013 09: 24
    I wonder if there is already a modernization project? At least the base. By and large, the housing is excellent. Again, modernization would give a lot of opite to the warblers. Every cruiser rebuild, it’s not a tugboat tug.
  27. +8
    16 September 2013 09: 36
    It is also possible that, ultimately, the cruiser will turn into a source of spare parts for three cruisers, which are already in service with the Russian Navy.

    Afonareli chtoli ?! Such a ship and for parts ?! Fear God, gentlemen! How could such an idea even come to mind .. These cruisers of the Atlant project have no prices .. Only for the completion and modernization of outdated equipment! well, then in any of the 4 fleets. (SV, Black Sea Fleet, Pacific Fleet, BF) Better, of course, in the Pacific Fleet or Northern Fleet. There is already his brother in the Black Sea.
    In any case, to build and upgrade is MUCH cheaper than building from scratch. The power plant is, the body is in excellent condition. The equipment is also there. Put your weapons and go!
    1. +1
      16 September 2013 15: 07
      Quote: dimon-media
      It is also possible that, ultimately, the cruiser will turn into a source of spare parts for three cruisers, which are already in service with the Russian Navy.

      Afonareli chtoli ?! Such a ship and for parts ?! Fear God, gentlemen! How could such an idea even come to mind .. These cruisers of the Atlant project have no prices .. Only for the completion and modernization of outdated equipment! well, then in any of the 4 fleets. (SV, Black Sea Fleet, Pacific Fleet, BF) Better, of course, in the Pacific Fleet or Northern Fleet. There is already his brother in the Black Sea.
      In any case, to build and upgrade is MUCH cheaper than building from scratch. The power plant is, the body is in excellent condition. The equipment is also there. Put your weapons and go!

      but at the Pacific Fleet there is no colleague called "Varyag"? Oh yes, no, he’s in Australia ...
      1. +1
        16 September 2013 17: 46
        Quote: PSih2097
        but at the Pacific Fleet there is no colleague called "Varyag"? Oh yes, no, he’s in Australia ...

        And why sarcasm? ... and this atlas would go to Pacific Fleet .... would go ..... but after Ustinov’s modif he switches to tof ... well, this one will go to the North
      2. 0
        18 September 2013 08: 18
        Quote: PSih2097
        and at the Pacific Fleet there is no colleague called "Varyag"? Oh yes, no, he’s in Australia ..

        makes a cruise tour, shows how to bang Eurochalands .... drinks
  28. NOMAD
    +4
    16 September 2013 09: 42
    Here, probably, the content plays a big role! If you stuff smart equipment, there will be a good, first-class ship! And the hull anyway, even after 20 years will be the same on any ship! Because it’s a classic! If they don’t invent something new! But with today's economic opportunities, will they lie !!
    1. 0
      18 September 2013 08: 25
      brother has already been worked out, it remains to start up the series .... ekranoplans wow dream .........?
  29. +2
    16 September 2013 09: 49
    In short, we must take until the "brothers" or China have not been sold, or they haven’t been drank with the help of their new gayrop druzhbanov.
  30. diesel
    -3
    16 September 2013 09: 57
    Quote: Captain Vrungel

    Captain Vrungel
    (1)

    Today, 08: 42

    ↑ ↓ New


    Can "Aurora" be updated? She's in the best condition. How long will it take to update. It's to take a step back 30 years

    The most correct decision, And take this barge to the target
  31. +1
    16 September 2013 10: 00
    The main question remains open - in what condition is the cruiser, especially the hull, for 30 years at the factory wall without proper care could rust through, what will be more expensive to restore than building a new one, and in this case it’s a warehouse for the brothers of the project, and here it is already a clear reason for such a meager price tag ....
  32. +1
    16 September 2013 10: 01
    "Russian shipbuilders are ready to prepare the necessary draft law", they may even get down to their own business and prepare a project for completion and modernization, and leave the lawmaking to verbiage or I did not understand something :)
  33. -1
    16 September 2013 10: 04
    The ship was laid down thirty years ago. And they made it for the weapons that were then. The alteration will cost such a penny that the fur coat will wrap up - it's cheaper to build a new one. We have a lot of examples, re-equipment and alteration is very expensive "pleasure".
    Moreover, for thirty years, the body and the entire filling turned into ordinary scrap. Or does someone think that he was stored in a tin can with optimal conditions?
  34. 0
    16 September 2013 10: 04
    it’s necessary, otherwise China will definitely buy
    1. +5
      16 September 2013 10: 12
      They do not need him, they refused in 2002. Why is the PLA such a cruiser?

      1) Completion is foggy.
      2) There is no GK and it is impossible to deliver, while the ship was built according to the architecture around the GK.
      3) С-300Ф - they have a license, documentation, moreover, they tied it to their 4 radars with canvases in the hull.
      4) AK-130 - they have a license and carrier ships, as well as their own gun for a promising destroyer based on one AK-130 barrel.
      5) BIUS and other systems are already outdated, uninteresting to the Chinese.
      1. 0
        18 September 2013 08: 30
        Quote: donavi49
        Why is the PLA such a cruiser?

        Namely, this cruiser for a great sea power .......... i.e. for us.
  35. 0
    16 September 2013 10: 17
    Russia, at the present time, is in great need of such ocean-going vessels, it is worth seeing how the "Moscow" was driven. We need to buy and not waste time on trifles and modernize faster, under the name "Little Russia" I also agree to recruit a crew from ethnic Ukrainians, look who commands our fleets, let Ukraine be jealous and proud. laughing
    1. 0
      16 September 2013 10: 20
      And how to upgrade? Just wondering. And then, by 30, 1164 will be written off. Does this cruiser also write off? Or keep the only one, with all the attendant at the price of service. Ah, the most interesting thing is that GK - it is not being produced, not only will it have a deadline for 30 even after a bulkhead, they will also shoot the missiles. Today, it was the 1164 GK that reduced the firing as much as possible, because literally 2,5 BC remained on the cruiser.
      1. 0
        16 September 2013 13: 05
        donavi49 UA Today, 10: 20 ↑

        And how to upgrade? Just wondering. And then, by 30, 1164 will be written off. Does this cruiser also write off? Or keep the only one, with all the attendant at the price of service. Ah, the most interesting thing is that GK - it is not being produced, not only will it have a deadline for 30 even after a bulkhead, they will also shoot the missiles. Today, it was the 1164 GK that reduced the firing as much as possible, because literally 2,5 BC remained on the cruiser.
        There are already modernization projects, and not even one, it all depends on the price. And as for the missiles, they will shoot "Basalt" - "Vulcan" will be delivered. What confuses you? And it is a world practice to start up ships for spare parts. 1-2 ships (depending on the number of series) are allowed on "organs" for other ships of this series (if it has not been produced for a long time) So the "Ukraine" may have a bright future hi
  36. +1
    16 September 2013 10: 20
    for Ukraine a burden for us 4th cruiser as Moscow
    1. +3
      16 September 2013 10: 46
      Yeah why not?! This deal would be beneficial for both parties. I wish he had passed by taking into account the donor’s ship, and he would proudly carry the St. Andrew’s flag over the seas and oceans! Amen!
  37. 0
    16 September 2013 10: 37
    so she can and will go to spare parts, there was information that even if they buy, 4 1164 is not destined to be.
    or Ukraine or Marshal Ustinov will go for parts ...
  38. Drosselmeyer
    +5
    16 September 2013 11: 04
    I remember how in the early 2000s the then Minister of Defense Ivanov refused to buy the "Ukraine" calling it the Volga 21 models. They say we will customize modern ships ourselves. This is such a "perspicacious" minister. And the need has come, so the unfortunate "Moscow" is being driven all the way, because there is no one.
  39. +1
    16 September 2013 11: 08
    You need to buy a cruiser, at least as a spare part for existing Atlantes. Ukraine does not want to leave such a handsome man at all.
  40. +8
    16 September 2013 11: 14
    would soon have sold it. I can’t watch how such a ship just stands and rusts at the pier.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. Alex-z84
    +3
    16 September 2013 11: 21
    Quote: xetai9977
    I agree with Yuri. Without commissioning the ship is already outdated morally. Look at the look of new generation ships!

    It all depends not on the appearance, but on the filling of which the cruiser is stuffed, to compare the appearance of the boxes and make conclusions which one is simply modern is stupid. This cruiser is 20 years old, so there is still a reserve for modernization.
  43. +1
    16 September 2013 11: 23
    The Russian Navy is not so rich in ships at this time. After all, it is no secret to anyone that Russia needs ships of this class. Therefore, it is necessary to buy this unfinished one. The only question is the price. The price should be determined by the fact that the ship is already obsolete. But his "brothers" regularly plow the vastness of the oceans. Russia will receive a warship, and the workers of the shipyard will receive money for the work done. And there is no need to continue this uncertainty.
  44. ataker_pra
    +1
    16 September 2013 11: 25
    Serdyukov smiled, offering to give the cruiser for free))
    1. +1
      16 September 2013 13: 32
      Not for nothing, but for a completion contract. This is much more than they are now.
    2. +2
      16 September 2013 14: 27
      Quote: ataker_pra
      Serdyukov smiled, offering to give the cruiser for free))

      Serdyukov apparently also wanted a pullback from Ukraine!
      Quote: Genry
      Not for nothing, but for a completion contract. This is much more than they are now.

      Well, I say the same rollback! winked
  45. +2
    16 September 2013 11: 25
    It is necessary to announce that the cruiser will be redone in a casino, they will sell for 20 million verified.
  46. AlexP47
    +4
    16 September 2013 11: 36
    Russia needs a ship! We already have 3 cruisers of this project, but they are "smeared" across different fleets. "Lobov" needs to be bought, (especially since the price is quite reasonable) to be completed in Severodvinsk according to the updated project and included in the Pacific Fleet. After the new frigates arrive at the Black Sea Fleet there, it will be possible to transfer the "Moscow". Thus, it is possible to create a surface strike group of missile ships that are quite capable of withstanding the future Chinese or Japanese AUG. If we go further, then it is necessary to restore and modernize the aircraft carrier "Admiral Lazarev", which can become the core of such a naval strike group. Such a group, together with submarines, will be able to completely resist one American AUG. In case of aggravation of the situation in the Pacific Fleet, you can overtake "Marshal Ustinov" for reinforcement. Perhaps all these ships are not the last word in science and technology, but now we cannot build something larger than a frigate from scratch. And even then for the eighth year we have been suffering with the "Gorshkov" because of the high degree of novelty of the ship. Therefore, it is necessary to maintain the readiness of what is and, in parallel, develop new naval weapons. The war, as usual, begins suddenly.
    1. 0
      16 September 2013 13: 48
      Quote: AlexP47
      Perhaps all these ships are not the last word in science and technology, but now we cannot build something larger than a frigate from scratch. And even then for the eighth year we have been suffering with the "Gorshkov" because of the high degree of novelty of the ship.

      There is already a contradiction in your words. Will it be easier to re-equip and modernize "Ukraine" than to bring "Gorshkov" to mind? To install new weapons will require design changes. If someone thinks that a ship is a hull that you can "stick" anything you like, then you must be disappointed. A specific type of ship - for specific tasks and corresponding weapons. It's like starting now at VAZ to produce Zhiguli stuffed with Porsche. It's tempting, but will you buy this?
      1. +2
        16 September 2013 18: 21
        Quote: IRBIS
        A specific type of ship - for specific tasks and related weapons

        so we have everything for this and the P-1000 ... and s300f .... and the sea version of the torus ... so what prevents to put all this in the places available for them ????????? and the hull is not even rotten at all .... first teach "metal alloys and chemistry" .... Do you think the commune is afloat ?? .. it is over 100 years old and it is part of the Black Sea Fleet .... can troll each...
      2. AlexP47
        +3
        16 September 2013 19: 03
        Don't complicate things: Ustinov is currently undergoing modernization in Severodvinsk. According to this project, it is already possible to launch the modernization of "Lobov": there are no unsolvable technical problems here. No global rebuilding of the ship is required.
        1. 0
          18 September 2013 08: 38
          Quote: AlexP47
          Don't complicate things: Ustinov is currently undergoing modernization in Severodvinsk.

          as he said, my company, learn the mat.chast ........ an even fly and a smooth descent, and everything will be in openwork.
  47. +5
    16 September 2013 11: 58
    HISTORICAL SUMMARY: The missile cruiser pr.1164 (Atlant) was developed by the Northern PKB (Leningrad. The ship was intended to deliver a missile strike on naval strike groups, primarily on aircraft carrier formations, as well as for the implementation of zonal air defense of its forces, primarily TAVKR pr. 1143.5 of the type "Admiral Kuznetsov" ("Varyag" and "Ulyanovsk"). In total, the Soviet fleet planned to order a series of 10 cruisers of this project, 4 units each for the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet and 1 each for the BF and Black Sea Fleet. The 5th (October Revolution) cruisers were to be built according to project 1164.1, having a hull lengthened by 6 meters, unlike the base project, they were armed with the Vulkan anti-ship missile system (instead of the Basalt) and five combat modules ZRAK Kortik instead of 6 30-mm AU AK-630M, the latest RTV and two helicopters, while there would be no towed antenna of the SJSC "Platina." After the collapse of the USSR, this shipbuilding program was frozen ...
    All the technical documentation for this project is available, in addition, partial modernization has already been implemented at the RRC "Ukraine" (RCC "Vulkan"), there is also a combined chimney, a hydraulic crane, instead of the Grazd project installed on previous ships, and the electronic warfare system "Kontata-M" ... Partially modernization was carried out on the Varyag (anti-ship missile system Vulkan), currently Marshal Ustinov is undergoing major overhaul in Severodvinsk, where, in particular, it is planned to replace the main complex for Volcanoes. The Russian Navy needs ships of this class, otherwise we will turn it into a coastal fleet with river trams ... Of course, this event is very expensive, but it is necessary to replenish the ranks of the fleet with this type of ship ... For reference: RRC "Moscow" (Slava) 1982 construction, RRC "Marshal Ustinov" ("Admiral Lobov") 1986, RRC "Varyag" ("Chervona Ukraine") - 1989, the period is already quite decent .... We need a replacement and very urgently ...
  48. smiths xnumx
    +2
    16 September 2013 12: 42
    And rightly so. Ukraine doesn’t need such a dangerous weapon. First, strategic bombers were cut.
    And, in general, thank God! Imagine a pimple-faced US night with strategic bombers?
    Now they will cut the cruiser - and also good.
    It was still not enough that Ukraine had some kind of serious weapon.
    Well, there are not many amazing stories;)
    1. +1
      16 September 2013 23: 40
      Quote: moremansf
      Now they will cut the cruiser - and also good.

      Hardly, remember the not-so-long story with the sale of "Varyag" to China. I will keep silent about the fact that the Chinese bought it "for restructuring into a floating casino" ...
      And if it were not for the principled position of Russia, then the cruiser would have "gone" there too.
  49. +1
    16 September 2013 12: 55
    Do you remember the fate of the battleship Novorossiysk?
  50. Glory333
    -4
    16 September 2013 13: 10
    In general, it is better for Russia to pay more attention to the ground forces with aviation and a smaller fleet, of course, an unfinished cruiser can be bought at a cheaper price, this certainly will not be outright wrecking like buying useless French Mistral barrels for crazy money.
    1. +2
      16 September 2013 13: 16
      Quote: Glory333
      In general, it is better for Russia to pay more attention to ground forces with aviation and a smaller fleet


      Nonsense. Russia just needs a strong fleet. Since the time of Peter, this has been repeatedly confirmed.
      "Let the fate of Russia fly with sails !!!" (C) "Juno and Avos."
      1. Glory333
        -2
        16 September 2013 13: 22
        A strong fleet is needed to support large military operations in remote areas of the globe - for example, to capture the Falkland Islands. Is Russia going to carry out such operations?
        Aviation and missiles will be enough to protect the coast or to act in neighboring territories (for example, Georgia).
        Zhukov himself said that if the USSR before the war spent less on an expensive fleet and more on land forces, the war would have ended in 1944. Stalin said that instead of a single battleship, you can create a tank army.
        1. +7
          16 September 2013 13: 42
          Quote: Glory333
          A strong fleet is needed to support large military operations in remote areas of the globe - for example, to capture the Falkland Islands. Is Russia going to carry out such operations?
          Aviation and missiles will be enough to protect the coast or to act in neighboring territories (for example, Georgia).

          Unfortunately, I have to leave, I will say only one goodbye. The current situation off the coast of Syria, here is a direct confirmation of the need to have a strong fleet. Perhaps even in the Arctic it is necessary to defend their interests.
          1. Glory333
            0
            16 September 2013 14: 36
            Well, why is there a strong fleet in the current situation with Syria? That weak Black Sea fleet that Russia has is quite enough. For the Arctic, there are missiles and missile carriers such as Tu-160, the fleet is also needed, of course, but it can be made too strong by investing a lot of money - wrecking, not without reason the enemies of Russia, the NATO forces are pushing it to strengthen the fleet, it is much cheaper and more efficient to develop aviation and rocket and space forces.
            Before the war in 1940, as far as I recall, the USSR spent 1/3 of the military budget on the fleet !!! Here it was wrecking so wrecking !!! What say the contribution of the fleet to the victory over Germany was 33%? God grant that 3%. We will repeat the mistakes of the pre-war USSR and also spend 1/3 of the budget on the fleet delighting our enemies?
      2. Glory333
        -1
        16 September 2013 13: 33
        I would also add that in the time of Peter there was no aviation and missiles, in our time the Swedish fleet in the Gulf of Finland would have been calmly sunk by aircraft and missiles - why build expensive ships for this?
        In the 1982 Falkland conflict, a strong fleet did not bring any benefit to Argentina - all the damage to the British was done by weak and feeble Argentine aviation, if Argentina had strong modern aviation, all the powerful English fleet with landing would quickly settle down on the bottom of the sea.
        1. +11
          16 September 2013 14: 00
          That's it so that the fleet is not melted by aviation and such ships are needed. Atlantes are imprisoned to give the ship group stability in the battle with AUG. They are equipped with air defense of the far and near zones and an anti-ship strike system capable of attacking an AUG as a single object.

          Zhukov’s opinion of the fleet is based on the experience of the war with Germany. Ie on the afterlife. And before the war, the situations of war were not seriously considered, not in alliance with the United States and Britain, but just the opposite. And anyway, who would mumble, and Zhukovskaya cow would be better silent. Of the entire RKKA-RKKF complex, only the fleet was able to NORMALLY respond to the outbreak of war.
          1. Glory333
            +2
            16 September 2013 14: 51
            Strong aircraft and anti-ship missiles - they will drown any fleet even without the use of nuclear weapons, no ships will save. If nuclear weapons are used, then 10 cruise missiles are enough to destroy an aircraft carrier group - it is guaranteed that at least one will break through any air defense and destroy the entire fleet worth tens of billions of dollars.
            I agree that in the event of a war against England, a strong fleet would be much more useful, but I had to fight with Germany and Zhukov was absolutely right in asserting that the high cost of the fleet before the war was a huge mistake. Stalin, who understood this, is also right. Yes, on June 22, the fleet responded well, but what's the point? How many German divisions defeated the fleet, what is its contribution to the victory? - Miserable contribution compared to the huge costs for it.
            1. +1
              16 September 2013 18: 23
              Quote: Glory333
              Zhukov is absolutely right in asserting that the high cost of the fleet before the war was a huge mistake.

              Being an NGS in the period of six months before the war and at its beginning, Zhukov and his comrades did such a thing that they managed to prosra ... (in the words of Comrade Stalin) a five-million army along with tanks, planes and other iron. And then they killed the airborne corps and almost the entire Black Sea Fleet with their teams.
              So, it wasn’t a bobbin - some (not very smart) were in the cab!
        2. +1
          16 September 2013 14: 32
          [quote = Glory333] I’ll add that during the time of Peter there was no aviation and missiles, in our time the Swedish fleet in the Gulf of Finland would have been calmly sunk by aircraft and missiles [/ quote]
          And what is the "Swedish fleet" now? Swedish family - I know, but what about the fleet? request

          [quote = Glory333] In the Falkland conflict of 1982 of the year, a strong fleet did not bring any benefit to Argentina - all the damage was done to the British by the weak and weak Argentine aviation, if Argentina had strong modern aviation, all the powerful English fleet with landing would quickly settle down on the bottom of the sea. [/ quote]
          If the Argentine bombs and missiles would still explode when they hit targets, then

          [/ quote] the entire powerful English fleet with the landing would quickly settle down on the bottom of the sea. [/ quote]
          1. Glory333
            +1
            16 September 2013 15: 14
            Yes, even a weak Argentine aviation could inflict irreparable damage on the powerful British fleet, but this aviation was not only weak, but also weak - I knew perfectly well that the missiles did not start and the bombs did not explode, therefore I wrote "weak" Argentine aviation, one might also say - defective :)
            Sweden has a fleet, imagine that it is a strong fleet, it enters the Gulf of Finland with intentions hostile to Russia - will it last long in the age of aviation and missiles? It was during the time of Peter that a strong Russian fleet was needed to destroy him, in our time such a fleet is not needed.
      3. +1
        16 September 2013 18: 10
        Quote: Garrin
        Russia just needs a strong fleet

        What do you mean by "Strong Fleet"? How many ships and what class? On what seas? If you keep a strike force on each of the four, the budget is not enough. Rather enough, but to the detriment of social programs. Are you going to participate in local conflicts? missiles with Turkey? We have irreconcilable differences with the Turks? Do they want to conquer us? Having reached parity with Turkey, you will not reach parity with the entire NATO bloc.
        1. Misantrop
          +2
          16 September 2013 23: 48
          Quote: Pilat2009
          If the budget for each of the four per strike group is not enough, it’s more accurate but to the detriment of social programs.
          To reduce the Duma by a dozen deputies from among the "cultural bohemians" - that means there will be funds for a couple of groups
          1. 0
            17 September 2013 16: 55
            Quote: Misantrop
            Reduce the Duma by a dozen deputies from among the "cultural bohemians"

            Yes, I would have reduced it altogether, if you want to be a deputy, spend your money and work for nothing. And I would send pensioners from the Council of Federations
    2. 0
      18 September 2013 08: 44
      Quote: Glory333
      it will not be frank sabotage like buying frenzied money for useless French Mistral barrels.

      go ass troll western
  51. Grishka100watt
    0
    16 September 2013 13: 47
    I think the Ukrainian authorities will sell us the ship if the information is correct. After all, they really need funds for European integration. Can you imagine how many billion rubles it will be possible to cut, say, the same T-64s.
  52. georg737577
    -2
    16 September 2013 13: 52
    How Russia wants at least some kind of “Ukraine”...
    1. +4
      16 September 2013 15: 14
      Quote: georg737577
      How Russia wants at least some kind of “Ukraine”...

      But is this bad from your point of view?
    2. xan
      +1
      16 September 2013 22: 18
      Quote: georg737577
      How Russia wants at least some kind of “Ukraine”...

      keep some Ukraine for yourself
      we need a ship, the bankrupts are giving it away at the price of scrap metal
    3. +1
      17 September 2013 00: 15
      Quote: georg737577
      How Russia wants at least some kind of “Ukraine”...

      Don’t get carried away by the idea that if the ship is purchased by Russia, it will retain its previous name.
      I don’t know what decision the leadership of the Russian Federation and the Ministry of Defense would have made, but I personally would have renamed the cruiser “Little Russia” and left it in Sevastopol fellow
  53. Kovrovsky
    0
    16 September 2013 13: 56
    Quote: Turik
    Yeah ... The Slav brothers survived. Well, they would sell some other pelvis, but a cruiser with the name "Ukraine"?!? If I were the politicians who had brought their country to such a shame, I would have shot myself.

    Nothing personal just business!
  54. +4
    16 September 2013 14: 00
    In my amateurish opinion in the Navy, I think we need a ship. Moreover, Ukraine promised to increase its readiness before transferring it to Russia. Now, after all, it is possible not only to complete it, but also to immediately modernize it. S-300, replaced with S-400, Granites, can also be replaced with a large number of launchers, as they want on Ustinov.
    It will turn out to be a completely normal ship, new cruisers won’t be coming soon anyway.
  55. +10
    16 September 2013 14: 13
    Survived ...

    First we divided the indivisible, and now we sell to each other what we created together. Rave...
    1. +8
      16 September 2013 15: 32
      Exactly. The situation with separate Russia, Ukraine and Belarus is reminiscent of the situation with separate and independent hemispheres of one brain.
    2. 0
      18 September 2013 08: 56
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      First we divided the indivisible, and now we sell to each other what we created together. Rave..

      what to do, this is the reality, tomorrow you, as part of the Western hordes, will go to war against us... they will force you. am
  56. 0
    16 September 2013 14: 33
    I wonder if they will be able to transfer it to the North along the rivers of Russia - the canals have the capacity to accommodate the dimensions of the cruiser?
  57. +3
    16 September 2013 14: 44
    Quote: donavi49
    And how to upgrade? Just wondering. And then, by 30, 1164 will be written off. Does this cruiser also write off? Or keep the only one, with all the attendant at the price of service. Ah, the most interesting thing is that GK - it is not being produced, not only will it have a deadline for 30 even after a bulkhead, they will also shoot the missiles. Today, it was the 1164 GK that reduced the firing as much as possible, because literally 2,5 BC remained on the cruiser.


    How to modernize is very simple, right now there are "Basalts" (range 500 km, there are really few "Basalts" left), install "Vulcans" (range 700 km), then on new missiles with the same mass-dimensional dimensions (range 1000 -1500 km), air defense from S-300 to S-400 with the prospect of S-500. With such characteristics, even with Soviet contours, it will also surpass the Orlans with their Granites. At least until 2030-2040 they will be able to sail, and then, God willing to Russia, new cruisers will be suitable.
    1. Nitup
      0
      16 September 2013 21: 00
      Quote: repytw
      At least until 2030-2040 they will be able to sail, and then, God willing to Russia, new cruisers will be suitable.

      It seems that cruisers are fading into history in the same way that battleships once were. It is assumed that the new destroyer will have striking power at the level of a cruiser and will replace not only the current destroyers, but also cruisers. Likewise, the United States is building Zumwalt destroyers, but doesn’t seem to be planning any new cruisers.
  58. teleset
    +2
    16 September 2013 15: 07
    The guy in the photo is really handsome. I definitely need to take it and repair it a bit. And it’s such a pity that this ship stood idle for so many years, that’s the politics of those years in plain sight, it should have sailed the seas and oceans, but it sits rusting pitifully crying
  59. +11
    16 September 2013 15: 28
    As far as I remember, Kuchma tried to keep it as a flagship and funding for its support began under him. They even slowly completed something.
    There is a site with photographs - visit it, you won’t regret it - you will understand that it carries the spirit of the USSR.
    It seems to me that they would not have spared him in those years when everything was completely sold (the same Varyag and especially bitter for the Yuri Gagarin, home port - my hometown, when it came - it was something) it seems to me that Kuchma’s ambitions were his then They saved me by injecting adrenaline for my pulse. After Kuchma, the ambitions of politicians became different. But funding was not cut off, which is strange, but they did not begin to complete construction.
    Site
    http://hvylya.org/reports/reports-jurija-romanenko/qq-180.html
    and here are photos from different periods
    http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/02/172/
    The quality is blurry, but it feels like the cruiser is still alive.
    According to what is happening. It's sad to realize that we don't need this ship because of our economy. Having overcome my emotions, I am forced to state what the Nikolaev shipbuilders themselves say - in order to save the ship, it must be sold to the Russian Federation.
    By the way, the idea of ​​purchasing will soon resemble the AN 70 program....
    1. 0
      16 September 2013 15: 41
      Quote: Cristall
      According to what is happening. It's sad to realize that we don't need this ship because of our economy. Having overcome my emotions, I am forced to state what the Nikolaev shipbuilders themselves say - in order to save the ship, it must be sold to the Russian Federation.
      By the way, the idea of ​​purchasing will soon resemble the AN 70 program....


      For us, for whom? And what’s wrong with Russia having the cruiser?
  60. a boat
    -7
    16 September 2013 15: 36
    Don’t make people laugh: an unfinished cruiser for the price of a couple of tanks isn’t even funny! Hmmm, and then I wonder why the Ukrainians want to join the EU!
    1. +1
      16 September 2013 17: 57
      Quote: gych
      Don’t make people laugh: an unfinished cruiser for the price of a couple of tanks isn’t even funny! Hmmm, and then I wonder why the Ukrainians want to join the EU!

      Damn comedian. Well, of course, Ukraine is striving to join the EU to sell its cruiser. laughing
  61. +4
    16 September 2013 15: 54
    Well, Ukraine does not have the strength and means for a fleet, so this is a better fate for a ship than letting it go on pins and needles. They should save their remaining ships, otherwise they will sink and drown at the berths. And if they sign an agreement with the EEC, all the shipyards will die; Europe does not need competitors.
  62. 0
    16 September 2013 16: 17
    If they sell it... take it without any questions)
    1. 0
      18 September 2013 09: 01
      Quote: sys-1985
      take it without any questions

      absolutely true, and we will drive Amer’s Augs into their stall.
  63. +2
    16 September 2013 16: 34
    As mentioned above, the main thing is to sit down and correctly calculate what is more expensive - to buy this one and modernize it or to build your own from scratch. True, I see several arguments in favor:
    1) the impossibility of building ships of this rank in Russia in the foreseeable future, they are only sluggishly talking about certain projects;
    2) low price, i.e. even without repairs it can be useful for spare parts, and for the money you don’t mind the metal (although I’m lying, I feel sorry for the handsome man for the metal);
    3) relations with Ukraine will most likely improve;
    4) the cruiser will not go to a third party.
  64. jasper
    0
    16 September 2013 16: 44
    They threatened to sell it back in 2010, but things are still there
  65. +3
    16 September 2013 16: 45
    Flaw detection will show you whether to buy or not to buy. We bow to the shipbuilders from the 61st Communard plant for keeping their brainchild afloat.
  66. +4
    16 September 2013 16: 53
    In 2011, Anatoly Serdyukov, the then head of the military department in Russia, said that Russia was ready to take a cruiser for nothing, not even at the cost of scrap metal. Only then can the options for the participation of Ukrainian enterprises in its completion be considered.

    Anatoly Serdyukov, a “trader”, who mistakenly took the post of Minister of Defense for huge sums of money and bought “French troughs” did not even understand what he refused (His offer to the Ukrainians was an actual refusal) I fully support the members of the forum - we need him (not yet completely rusty), but to bring to the state of “Moscow”, I think it will not be a problem for Russia and the funds and time will be spent several times less, which is very important now. But let the name remain, we have nothing to share with Ukraine - sick pride only divides and alienates. Do we, our Slavic brothers, need this?
  67. Algor73
    +3
    16 September 2013 16: 58
    It is no longer possible to accomplish the tasks that Russia now sets for itself with its ships. Look, the Syrian conflict - they collected from all fleets. But the ship is needed, the main thing is that it can be quickly put into operation. It will take more than one year to build a new one (from scratch). It is necessary not to quarrel, but to look for mutual benefit - Ukraine does not need it (in general, Ukraine does not need ships of this class), but Russia simply needs it. You can buy it in France, but it seems to me that it will be much cheaper in Ukraine.
  68. +9
    16 September 2013 16: 59
    Quote: Turik
    Yeah ... The Slav brothers survived. Well, they would sell some other pelvis, but a cruiser with the name "Ukraine"?!? If I were the politicians who had brought their country to such a shame, I would have shot myself.

    Ha, wait, of course. To what conscience and honor are you appealing? They simply won't understand you. For what the Ukrainian government has done to the country over 22 years, they should be counted by number and every 1st should be shot, every 2nd should be hanged, and the rest should be sent to minefields in Africa. The actions of people who do not receive treatment in their own country, except perhaps in one closed hospital, do not educate their children here and keep all their money abroad, speak for themselves.
  69. slacker
    +2
    16 September 2013 17: 15
    You can buy it for the price of scrap metal. More expensive - no. But I suspect that Ukrainian politicians will begin to act in the usual manner “neither themselves nor the people” and this deal will fall through like a lot of other mutually beneficial Russian-Ukrainian projects.
  70. waisson
    +2
    16 September 2013 17: 49
    It’s high time, if you don’t have enough, I’ll add a couple of rubles
  71. +6
    16 September 2013 18: 25
    to be honest - 30 million during the time that negotiations have been ongoing since God knows what year - could have already been collected by subscription....
    The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine did not pay the plant any money for it this year, 160 people applied for dismissal.
    Let me remind you that annually the Moscow Region pays about 6 million hryvnia for its maintenance, which is approximately 800 thousand dollars. In short, a million dollars a year.
    The shipyards in Nikolaev are huge...how many times have I been there? I was amazed - the same shipyard of ocean-going ships. And for the World Cup, “Sea” would be enough for us; I don’t know how this city will survive. But the joy of the Westerners will be enormous...of course...one more Russian-speaking city minus....
    1. +3
      16 September 2013 20: 59
      Quote: Cristall
      The shipyards in Nikolaev are huge...how many times have I been there? I was amazed - the same shipyard of ocean-going ships.

      It's definitely a pity for the plant. Under the USSR, he could build anything he wanted.
  72. +3
    16 September 2013 18: 32
    I haven't written anything for a long time - but I couldn't resist. Well, what kind of disputes can there be regarding the acquisition?
    Yes, the ship is old - and it has been standing at the quay wall for a long time. But ask yourself a question: will its commissioning even after three years strengthen the Russian Navy or not? Definitely will strengthen it. Therefore we must take it. Construction will cost more. And in three years we need to send him to the Pacific Fleet - and even if in Vladik he stands against the wall armed, that’s very cool. As a taxpayer I am FOR!!!!
  73. 0
    16 September 2013 18: 35
    definitely a must buy
  74. 0
    16 September 2013 18: 44
    Quote: xetai9977
    In 2011, Anatoly Serdyukov, the then head of the military department in Russia, said that Russia was ready to take a cruiser for nothing, not even at the cost of scrap metal. Only then can the options for the participation of Ukrainian enterprises in its completion be considered.

    I think it makes sense to now invite this effective manager and his friends to think and shell out the required yard of rubles. Make, so to speak, a significant contribution.

    As for the “out-of-date” appearance - tell the amers about this - they are not in the know and used battleships of the Second World War while they were needed.
    1. -2
      16 September 2013 19: 09
      This ship is out of date not only externally, but also, what is much worse, inside. Conceptually, so to speak.
      1. Jake danzels
        0
        17 September 2013 15: 37
        Are you so sure?
        http://hvylya.org/reports/reports-jurija-romanenko/qq-180.html
        Look do not be lazy.
        1. -1
          17 September 2013 19: 18
          I looked. And what is modern there? This ship is conceptually old from the mid-80s, when ships with multifunctional radars, universal launchers, reduced stealth and the use of modern materials appeared.
          The only thing that might be of interest is if they sell it to us at the price of scrap metal. But this is hard to believe.
          1. -1
            18 September 2013 09: 14
            Quote: clidon
            I looked. And what is modern there? This ship is conceptually old

            a miracle in feathers, you are at least vaguely familiar with Archimedes’ law. Your place is in the closet, because that’s where your relatives gurgle.
            1. 0
              18 September 2013 16: 02
              Don't forget boy, you are not in your school. You will be rude there.
  75. -2
    16 September 2013 19: 05
    I think this is another canard on the topic. We simply don’t need a ship of this age, and buying it only out of a feeling of compassion for Ukrainian shipbuilders, alas, is expensive.
    The very concept of such a cruiser was outdated more than 20 years ago, both systemically and in design. And aluminum superstructures have not been in fashion for a long time (especially after the Falklands).
  76. +1
    16 September 2013 19: 46
    We need to buy a cruiser out of a sense of compassion for the Russian fleet. We have only a handful of first-rank ships, in the future only the Nakhimov. And if Russia lays claim to something in this world, then there’s no way without an ocean-going fleet, but we have So far, nothing cooler than frigates is being built, so an extra combat unit of this class will be very useful
    1. 0
      16 September 2013 20: 05
      Then let's repair "Admiral Kutuzov" which stands as a museum in Novorossiysk. It will be cheaper and a ship of the first rank will be no different from it. It is even larger than "Ukraine". )
  77. 0
    16 September 2013 20: 13
    "Kutuzov" can't afford the money, it would be enough to restore "Aurora"
  78. +1
    16 September 2013 21: 37
    You have to take it.
    suggesting “Poltava” or “Izmail” as possible names
    I would call "Red Crimea"Or"Chervona Ukraine", by the way, "Red Crimea" has a guards flag, it should be based in Sevastopol.
    1. 0
      18 September 2013 09: 10
      My God, what a number of stupid goats who don’t understand elementary hydrodynamics.......
  79. The comment was deleted.
  80. 0
    16 September 2013 21: 59
    Yes, a good deal will be very basic, there are upgraded weapons you need to add
  81. +1
    16 September 2013 22: 08
    And at the last moment, as always, they will refuse the deal, they say, “Not for themselves, not for people.” I can’t sleep like that! I’ll take a bite! You’ll see! And they don’t care about economic benefits.
  82. +2
    16 September 2013 23: 08
    Yes, the plant desperately needs money to retain people! It is hard for the state to give 6 million hryvnia annually simply for the maintenance of an unfinished ship.
    In my opinion, both Ukraine and Nikolaev are interested in the deal. And if you consider how much the price has dropped compared to the original price... then in my opinion they are giving it away for a purely symbolic price.
    It is impossible to sell to a third party (agreement with Russia) in short as with NITKA (only there is a lease). We have it, but it’s too much for us, but we want to sell it to get at least some money for maintenance. The plant wants to live...
    on the plant’s website there are moods to sell for 30 million and pay off the workers.
    But the Russian Ministry of Defense is not yet in the mood to comment. In the meantime, the plant was going to disassemble it piece by piece - they thought they would buy it faster.
    In general, it is decided whether there will be a +1 Cruiser, or the purchase of parts in the future. The Military Defense Ministry has a choice. Maybe they are waiting for it to decrease further - but time is ticking, and the price/quality is falling. They won’t take care of the details like they would a cruiser.
    But again, in the light of October - put your hand on your heart - will Russia buy it even if it was really needed and it was urgently needed? I want to believe that they will save me... but my mind says that emotions will prevail. And they won't buy it.
    1. Corneli
      0
      17 September 2013 01: 19
      Quote: Cristall
      In my opinion, both Ukraine and Nikolaev are interested in the deal. And if you consider how much the price has dropped compared to the original price... then in my opinion they are giving it away for a purely symbolic price.

      It couldn’t be more symbolic... 30 million is the cost of one MiG-29 fighter, even the MiG-35 costs more...
  83. 0
    16 September 2013 23: 28
    some photos from here http://forum.sevastopol.info/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=37191&start=75
  84. 0
    16 September 2013 23: 30
    workplaces of radio-telegraph operators. Very nice rarities.
  85. 0
    16 September 2013 23: 33
    something to do with management
  86. 0
    16 September 2013 23: 34
    in general, pretty decent for 2008
  87. 0
    16 September 2013 23: 35
    rust cannot be defeated!
  88. 0
    17 September 2013 04: 10
    Now, when all wars begin with American aircraft carriers, such a powerful ship would not hurt us... The only thing we need is that, like on a car, the “body” is not rotten! Otherwise we’ll fly by as usual... Although it’ll do for spare parts.
    1. 0
      17 September 2013 15: 41
      Quote: agent xnumx
      Now, when all wars begin with American aircraft carriers, such a powerful ship would not hurt us... The only thing we need is that, like on a car, the “body” is not rotten! Otherwise we’ll fly by as usual... Although it’ll do for spare parts.

      For a circus like Syria in the Russian Federation, it would not be bad to have its own AUG, albeit a budget one. Bring Kuznetsov into divine form as soon as possible (especially bring his air wing to at least 32 seconds, the news says about 24, there are 15-20 helicopters), put the Orlan as an air defense ship next to it and add the Atlant to them. Here is the place for 4 cruisers from Ukraine.
      Such a three + KO will scare away the entire Gayrop and American fleet. And so one “Moscow” and a couple of BODs are too modest.

      And in Ukraine we need to raise our fleet, starting with corvettes and small missiles. To give birth to a couple of frigates for status - oh, dreams, dreams.
      1. 0
        17 September 2013 19: 23
        The Americans will have to wait until the “Guards AUG” runs out of fuel and goes home (as always, with tugs at the ready). This is not to mention the fact that even with this composition it will be inferior to the Americans in power. For to begin with, the problem of target designation has not yet been solved.
        1. 0
          18 September 2013 09: 19
          Quote: clidon
          even with this composition it will be inferior to the Americans in power

          This is because of their power, - 10 bombers and 22 attack aircraft. - Ours will land them on the water in flight, despite the escort.....
          1. +1
            18 September 2013 16: 00
            First, you need to find an aircraft carrier and target it, just like the Americans need to find our GAUG. I know what the Americans will do (E-2C), and I can also guess what ours will do (radar on the mast, ideally they will install the Ka-31). At the same time, the capabilities of the E-2C are three times higher than those of the Ka-31 and the patrol time is longer. Then the jamming will begin. I know what the Americans will do ("Growler"), and I can also guess what ours will use ("Radar on the mast", ideally a new container under the wing of the Su-33/Mig-29). Etc. In the end, it’s good if we actually deliver new MiGs, then at least the chances will appear, it will be possible to repel an air raid (which will be carried out at a time convenient for the Yankees, from a convenient direction), and then depending on the situation, how many fighters will we manage raise the alarm, how long will they be on duty in the air? However, the Americans have 56 fighters on board, our GAUG, God forbid, has 24, and so far with simpler electronics (no AFAR).
            1. 0
              19 September 2013 21: 25
              All this is true for a sporadic war, somewhere in the Pacific Ocean there are large spaces.
              In a conflict like Syria, where everything is located on a relatively small theater of operations. Any E-2s are redundant. And shooting down these same E-2s is not so difficult compared to their land counterparts.
              Hence the approach seems a little different. BUT THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION.
              1. Constant support of American AUG submarines as it was under the USSR.
              2. The development/revival of attack naval aviation in Soviet times was calculated
              AUG=2 regiment Tu-22+2 regiment Su-27
              Definitely land drills.
              3. Frigates + corvettes as the basis for coastal defense.
              And only then the creation of full-fledged AUGs with a nuclear basis - if necessary.
              Quote: clidon
              "Radar on a mast", ideally a new container for the Su-33/Mig-29 wing

              Ideally the first + the second.
              Quote: clidon
              In the end, it’s good if we actually deliver new MiGs

              I agree completely.
              Quote: clidon
              then at least the chances will appear, it will be possible to repel an air raid (which will be carried out at a time convenient for the Yankees, from a convenient direction), and then depending on the situation, how many fighters will we have time to alert, how many will be on duty in the air?

              The very presence is a serious bonus compared to the current situation. How many Su-33s are there alive now, 10 maximum?
              Quote: clidon
              However, the Americans have 56 fighters on board, our GAUG, God forbid, has 24

              There are persistent rumors on the Internet about the purchase of 20 MIG-29K and 4 MIG-29KUB for Kuznetsov.
              Whether this will be a final number most likely depends on:
              a) How much space will be freed up after the removal of the anti-ship missile system (about 5000 sq.m.) and how it will be used.
              b) How much space will appear when replacing old equipment and units.
              In addition, other escort vessels such as the modernized Orlan and Atlant are of great importance.
              1. +1
                20 September 2013 21: 15
                In a conflict like Syria, where everything is located on a relatively small theater of operations.

                Yes, I agree, in such a theater of operations the GAUG will be destroyed by coastal aviation. Here the chances generally tend to zero.

                Any E-2s are redundant. And shooting down these same E-2s is not so difficult compared to their land counterparts.

                I just didn't understand this. Everything can be knocked down, the problem has always been how? Especially when the enemy sees you, but you don’t.

                Constant escort of American AUG submarines as it was under the USSR.

                This is understandable, but you need to clearly understand that accompanying the AUG is not an easy task. Therefore, in the USSR they fenced “loaves” and other expensive equipment.

                AUG=2 regiment Tu-22+2 regiment Su-27
                Definitely land drills.

                All that remains is to find a lot of money for 2 Tu-22 regiments, with new missiles. Considering that the actual composition of aviation now is precisely 3 Tu-22 regiments.
                Land-based AWACS (Tu-126 and A-50) were not involved in these tasks. The Navy had the Tu-95RTs.

                Ideally, first + second.

                Ideally, your own Growler.

                The very presence is a serious bonus compared to the current situation. How many Su-33s are there alive now, 10 maximum?

                It’s better not to remember the current situation with Kuzya.

                There are persistent rumors on the Internet about the purchase of 20 MIG-29K and 4 MIG-29KUB for Kuznetsov.

                Sounds like the truth.

                a) How much space will be freed up after the removal of the anti-ship missile system (about 5000 sq.m.) and how it will be used.

                I will not sign that they will not be replaced with Onyxes. However, even without this, 24 Mig-29s will fit. The problem is more likely with the auxiliary machines.

                In addition, other escort vessels such as the modernized Orlan and Atlant are of great importance.

                Until there is a normal, full-fledged aircraft carrier, I would not recommend moving far from the coast (from under the protection of coastal aviation) even for Atlanteans and Orlans. There is a great chance of dying quickly and ingloriously. It is better to focus on multi-purpose submarines and reconnaissance systems.
                1. 0
                  21 September 2013 01: 12
                  Quote: clidon
                  Yes, I agree, in such a theater of operations the GAUG will be destroyed by coastal aviation. Here the chances generally tend to zero.

                  And the GAUG itself sees from coast to coast.
                  Quote: clidon
                  Especially when the enemy sees you, but you don’t.

                  Why can’t E2-S be detected in the Mediterranean Sea by the forces of, say, Kuznetsov? Or is it even no longer known where any of the ships are?
                  The conflict in Syria is a positional confrontation, the location is clearly visible. Just like balance, the question is the acceptability of damage.
                  Quote: clidon
                  Therefore, in the USSR they fenced “loaves” and other expensive equipment.

                  Which is several times cheaper than any Nimitz.
                  Quote: clidon
                  All that remains is to find a lot of money for 2 Tu-22 regiments, with new missiles. Considering that the actual composition of aviation now is precisely 3 Tu-22 regiments.
                  Land-based AWACS (Tu-126 and A-50) were not involved in these tasks. The Navy had the Tu-95RTs.

                  What is more expensive: 2 Tu-22 regiments or an aircraft carrier + escort vessels?
                  Quote: clidon
                  There are persistent rumors on the Internet about the purchase of 20 MIG-29K and 4 MIG-29KUB for Kuznetsov.
                  Sounds like the truth.

                  Unfortunately, not too happy. Too little - at least add another ten.
                  Quote: clidon
                  Until there is a normal, full-fledged aircraft carrier, I would not recommend moving far from the coast (from under the protection of coastal aviation) even for Atlanteans and Orlans.

                  Essentially 3 regiments of Tu-22m?
                  Quote: clidon
                  It is better to focus on multi-purpose submarines and reconnaissance systems.

                  I absolutely agree.
                  1. 0
                    21 September 2013 10: 05
                    And the GAUG itself sees from coast to coast.

                    This is very optimistic. Does he see what and what goals?

                    Why can’t E2-S be detected in the Mediterranean Sea by the forces of, say, Kuznetsov?

                    There are a lot of nuances here. An AWACS plane sees a ship much further than a ship - an AWACS plane. Therefore, radiation will be detected on the Kuznetsov, the bearing will be determined and fighters will be able to be sent in that direction. Moreover, the fighters will not see the target, but the AWACS group will. Again, the enemy has the initiative - you can shoot down fighters on duty (an aircraft carrier cannot alert many aircraft), you can simply leave - the detection task is completed, there is still no need to target the AUG.

                    Or is it even no longer known where any of the ships are?
                    The conflict in Syria is a positional confrontation, the location is clearly visible.

                    In newspapers? ) They are visible only on the basis of intelligence data. Today the ships are here, tomorrow they entered radio silence and moved to the other “edge of the sea.” Of course, in such a theater of operations, search and reconnaissance are easier - many ships and vessels are crowded together in a relatively small area of ​​water, some have seen, some have heard, but in general I have already written - in this case, it is more to be afraid of coastal aviation and its interaction with the enemy fleet.

                    Which is several times cheaper than any Nimitz.

                    And it is many times less universal - in fact, there is only one task - the destruction of surface ships. In addition, the system itself of such nuclear submarines was not cheap and was never fully developed. No wonder the Soviet Navy dreamed of “Kuznetsovs” and full-fledged AUGs for operations in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

                    What is more expensive: 2 Tu-22 regiments or an aircraft carrier + escort vessels?

                    More expensive than an aircraft carrier. True, such an outfit of forces to destroy the AUG only worked under one condition - the use of nuclear weapons. Tu-22 could not fly long distances and were also “narrowly tailored” to perform one task. However, by the 80s they had become outdated and “the burden of solving the problem” was transferred to the nuclear submarines. There wasn't enough money for everything. And if you look at the entire composition of the “anti-aircraft forces” of the USSR, then I’m afraid that the cost may not be “several times” lower.

                    Unfortunately, not too happy. Too little - at least add another ten.

                    Perhaps in overload. I repeat, we need to improve the qualitative component of the air wing, not the quantitative one.

                    Essentially 3 regiments of Tu-22m?

                    The main thing is from under the air defense hood.
        2. 0
          18 September 2013 09: 24
          This type was created to fight and destroy aircraft carrier groups. Notice not just one advance carrier, but the entire group as a whole.
        3. -2
          18 September 2013 09: 28
          Quote: clidon
          This is not to mention the fact that even with this composition it will be inferior to the Americans in power

          Apparently it disgusts you that a couple of thousand of your brothers will go to feed the crabs
  89. a boat
    -1
    17 September 2013 11: 17
    Quote: Setrac
    Quote: gych
    Don’t make people laugh: an unfinished cruiser for the price of a couple of tanks isn’t even funny! Hmmm, and then I wonder why the Ukrainians want to join the EU!

    Damn comedian. Well, of course, Ukraine is striving to join the EU to sell its cruiser. laughing

    yes no uv It’s you Petrasyaniti! Why is the EU referring to the price of the ship here?! According to your logic, should it be transferred to the Russian Federation for free? Its cost price is much higher than 30 lyams!
  90. a boat
    -2
    17 September 2013 11: 17
    Quote: Setrac
    Quote: gych
    Don’t make people laugh: an unfinished cruiser for the price of a couple of tanks isn’t even funny! Hmmm, and then I wonder why the Ukrainians want to join the EU!

    Damn comedian. Well, of course, Ukraine is striving to join the EU to sell its cruiser. laughing

    yes no uv It’s you Petrasyaniti! Why is the EU referring to the price of the ship here?! According to your logic, should it be transferred to the Russian Federation for free? Its cost price is much higher than 30 lyams!
  91. +1
    17 September 2013 15: 31
    It’s a shame for such equipment to rot at the pier. You don’t need it yourself, but at least sell it at a reasonable price. Not at the price of the metal, but so that it would be profitable for the buyer.
  92. Marks
    0
    17 September 2013 21: 37
    We must, brother, we must!
  93. +1
    17 September 2013 22: 39
    To all fans of "Atlantas" - don't flatter yourself

    The unfinished cruiser is being bought for spare parts - otherwise the Moscow, Ustinov and Varyag will soon not be able to go to sea.
    From a military point of view, this means nothing at all - one more cruiser, one less... All the same, the states have 84 similar ships - Aegis cruisers with zonal air defense systems and dozens of missile defense systems on board
    1. -2
      18 September 2013 09: 35
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      . All the same, the states have 84 similar ships - Aegis cruisers with zonal air defense systems and dozens of missile defense systems on board

      Are you confusing something, equating horseradish to a carrot; a frigate about against an attack cruiser: my friend, ward n6 is waiting and crying for you.
      1. 0
        19 September 2013 03: 17
        Quote: hert
        frigate about against a strike cruiser...you first go through an educational program and learn to read military-technical documentation

        Another ignoramus trying to teach me how to live wink

        We wish the ignoramus to watch less TV and read more books


        frigate...10 thousand tons




    2. -3
      18 September 2013 09: 39
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      All the same, the states have 84 similar ships - Aegis cruisers with zonal air defense systems and dozens of missile defense systems on board

      you first go through an educational program and learn to read military-technical documentation,............. stupid
  94. POBEDA
    0
    19 September 2013 02: 45
    Cool ship! But I looked carefully at the 16 Vulcan launchers and it occurred to me that when upgrading the ship it would be possible to install them more densely, and then, perhaps, 32 missiles could be placed...
    1. POBEDA
      0
      19 September 2013 02: 51
      ... 350 kilotons each...
  95. 0
    19 September 2013 02: 52
    Have you forgotten the fate of the battleship Novorossiysk? They got it mined from the Italians. I don’t rule out that they planted some kind of meanness on the orders of their new owners. That’s why they sell it cheap!
    1. POBEDA
      0
      19 September 2013 03: 07
      Not because they sell it cheap, but because they will quietly pay extra into the pockets of whoever needs it... well, okay, at the same time, hook the independent leader of the “state”
  96. -1
    19 September 2013 20: 35
    Only with the future name of the ship will there be a discrepancy.
    In all major countries with a naval history, there are certain traditions of naming ships of different classes.
    Of course, everything changes. But ships of the same series should be named uniformly.
    For example, both the British and the Germans had a series of city-class cruisers.
    One of the cruisers of the Anlant series is named Varyag.
    Before the Russo-Japanese War, the Varyag, Askold, Oleg, and Bogatyr were built according to the same technical specifications.
    “Varyag” died mediocrely at the very beginning of the war, “Bogatyr” tore open its bottom and stood in repairs throughout the war, “Oleg” took part in the Battle of Tsushima and died during the Civil War. The most heroic was "Askold" - an active participant in the Russian-Japanese and the First World War. The most worthy name.
  97. 0
    29 October 2013 18: 56
    They didn’t sell it, and we didn’t buy it. And so for the 100500th time.
  98. kelevra
    0
    26 December 2013 19: 44
    Ukraine doesn’t need to argue about the price! No one will offer anything more, and no one needs it. Moreover, it’s not worth more! Ukraine may lose its only buyer in us if it inflates the price and then the ship will simply rot! And our military analysts need to conduct a thorough diagnosis; if it is suitable for completion, then, of course, it needs to be purchased, completed, and off we go!
  99. sap
    sap
    0
    4 January 2014 18: 02
    We must take it!!! 30 million dollars the price is very good...not special...God forbid you have to pay for repairs and additions at the price of a new one...how nice it would be if I’m wrong
  100. 0
    25 March 2017 18: 27
    according to the cost of scrap metal

    I offer a profitable promotion:
    all Ukrainian military personnel who have rendered their weapons (tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, tractors, guns, etc.) unusable will be paid a cash bonus.
    For example, if you blow up your tank and render it unusable, you will receive a bonus of $1000.
    I am ready to open a special bonus fund for this purpose.
    Nothing personal just business! :)

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"