Military Review

SCO - “Chinese NATO”

49
SCO - “Chinese NATO”On September 13, the leaders of the Central Asian countries will meet at a meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) in Bishkek (Kyrgyzstan), thediplomat.com reported today. Inside this organization, China is the leader.


The SCO, formerly known as the Shanghai Five, consists of large players (China and Russia) and small players (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan). Within this organization, many issues are discussed, ranging from Chinese pipelines to security in Afghanistan.

Currently, the brilliant “Lord and Teacher” Chinese leader Xi Jinping is touring the countries of Central Asia to return to Beijing in triumph. In each country, he calls for the rule of law and promises to provide the 30 member states of the SCO with thousands of scholarships for students who want to study in China. In fact, the SCO is not just a meeting of like-minded countries, it is a chance for China to show its charm.

The most striking sign that other countries except China and Russia are only window dressing was the fact that in the recent military maneuvers in the Urals only Chinese and Russian troops participated, which gave rise to ask: "where are the rest of the country?".

However, there is no shortage in countries willing to join the SCO. These are India and Pakistan (have the status of observer countries) and Turkey, whose Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan once joked that his country would refuse to join the European Union for the sake of membership in the SCO. Despite the seemingly innocent comment of the Turkish leader, these words caused concern in some circles.

The SCO declared its “three evils” as its enemy - terrorism, separatism and extremism. According to some experts, under the flag of “combating terrorism”, human rights are in fact violated and internal repressions in these countries are justified.

As the most powerful SCO country, China has the right to form domestic policies throughout Central Asia. Among these countries, to some extent “only partially free” can be considered only Kyrgyzstan, in other countries undisguised authoritarianism is observed. When the rest of the world is concerned about the endless use of torture in Kazakhstan and the imprisonment in Kyrgyzstan of Azimzhan Askarov (an ethnic Uzbek and human rights defender, sentenced to life imprisonment - note “VP”), China focuses on economic ties, not humanitarian issues.

At present, China is looking at the SCO as a new “Silk Road”. It affects the scope of Chinese investments in Kazakhstan, including the last contract to buy 8,4% of the shares of the Caspian Kashagan oil field in the amount of 5 billion US dollars. The fact is that Central Asia is crucial for China in diversifying oil supplies.

Although some analysts believe that the SCO is created as a counterbalance to NATO, the future of the organization is uncertain, perhaps to a large extent even for its members. From time to time they seem to gather only to remind the world of the existence of the SCO. So far, the whole world perceives the legitimacy and relevance of the organization solely due to the growing influence of China in Central Asia.
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  1. Apollo
    Apollo 12 September 2013 10: 55
    25
    SCO quote, formerly known as the Shanghai Five, consists of large (China and Russia) and small players (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan).


    infographics

    Without Russia, the SCO would not be the SCO.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 12 September 2013 11: 02
      +4
      Apollo thanks for the reference materials.
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 12 September 2013 13: 20
        10
        The attacks on the Kyrgyz Republic surprised, however, as well as the fact that in the 2010 the SCO supposedly stopped the events in the south of the country. I think for 2 days no international organization would be able to react, the army of the Kyrgyz Republic suppressed the riots without any outside help (forced separation of the south is not small sectors with checkpoints, a state of emergency, the use of weapons against violators of emergency)

        And this Askarov, no matter who he was by status and rank (even if only the president of the country), had no right to lose his head and call for ethnic cleansing, promise military assistance to another country, organize resistance against the legitimate government, and oppose justice. And he was not convicted on ethnic grounds or because he is a human rights activist. His actions could lead to the escalation of the conflict throughout the country and a future war with a neighboring state. He was tried as a citizen of the Kyrgyz Republic.
    2. artemiy
      artemiy 12 September 2013 14: 03
      +1
      Sent Cossacks and the State Department wrote!
    3. Nukem999
      Nukem999 12 September 2013 15: 45
      +2
      ...................
  2. user
    user 12 September 2013 11: 00
    +3
    I would very much like to know the true reasons for our alliance with China, he will not play a giveaway, and on all other issues (except the creation of a united front against the United States), we are losing. Remember the conditions under which we supply electricity or long-term oil supplies, it seems that to the detriment of ourselves, if only to maintain good relations with our eastern neighbor.
    1. zart_arn
      zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 07
      -7
      Stillbirth organization. No specific goals and activities. If this is self-promotion of China, then Russia has nothing to do there.
      1. Refund_SSSR
        Refund_SSSR 12 September 2013 11: 12
        +3
        Or maybe NATO has a specific goal? laughing
        According to Art. 1 of the SCO fundamental document - the Charter of June 7, 2002, the main goals and objectives of the SCO are:
        strengthening mutual trust, friendship and good neighborliness between member states;
        development of multidisciplinary cooperation in order to maintain and strengthen peace, security and stability in the region, to help build a new democratic, fair and rational political and economic international order;
        joint counteraction against terrorism, separatism and extremism in all its manifestations, the fight against drug and arms trafficking, other types of transnational criminal activity, as well as illegal migration;
        encouraging effective regional cooperation in the political, trade and economic, defense, law enforcement, environmental, cultural, scientific, technical, educational, energy, transport, credit and financial and other areas of common interest;
        promotion of comprehensive and balanced economic growth, social and cultural development in the region through joint actions on the basis of equal partnership in order to steadily increase the level and improve the living conditions of the peoples of the member states;
        coordination of approaches to integration into the global economy;
        the promotion of human rights and fundamental freedoms in accordance with the international obligations of Member States and their national legislation;
        maintaining and developing relations with other states and international organizations;
        interaction in the prevention of international conflicts and their peaceful settlement;
        joint search for solutions to problems that arise in the twenty-first century.
        (stupid wikipedia)
        1. zart_arn
          zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 16
          -4
          In accordance with the 1949 North Atlantic Treaty, NATO aims to strengthen stability and increase prosperity in the North Atlantic region. “The participating countries have joined forces to create collective defense and maintain peace and security” [6].
          According to First Secretary General Ismay Hastings, the goal of NATO is: "... to keep the Russians aside, the Americans inside, and the Germans under" [7] [8]
          The 2010 NATO Strategic Concept “Active Participation, Modern Defense” presents three of NATO’s most important tasks - collective defense, crisis management, and cooperative security. [9]
          Wikipedia
          Those. by definition, it is a centralized, primarily a military structure with a clearly organized hierarchy and rules of the game. The Warsaw Pact was arranged in a similar way. And the SCO is a swan, cancer and pike.
          1. Refund_SSSR
            Refund_SSSR 12 September 2013 11: 19
            +2
            Well, what’s the purpose of NATO? Who is opposed to? The goal is blurry.
            Particularly encouraging is the item "Participation in military conflicts" laughing A pack of jackals attacks dwarf states that are absolutely not dangerous (in military prana). And moreover, in the light of recent events, they still do not support each other, and not just do not support, but prohibit the movement and use of their bases and resources for the implementation of military companies ... A good union ... This is certainly not a lie -You
            So what is the purpose?

            The fact that the SCO is not only a military organization does not mean that there is no specific goal. There are several of them (goals) and they are quite clearly formulated.

            Again, look at the dates of the creation of organizations, and you want that organizations created with such a time difference immediately competed?
            1. zart_arn
              zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 29
              0
              You understand everything perfectly. NATO is a purely military alliance with its general headquarters, clearly regulated by the rules of the game and goals. The EEC is a purely political and economic structure with clearly regulated game rules and goals. All members of these entities in their legislation clearly stipulate this. By the way, the VD and CMEA also had this.
              But I personally see the SCO only as self-promotion of the Celestial Empire.
              1. Refund_SSSR
                Refund_SSSR 12 September 2013 11: 30
                +2
                Nevertheless, both the EU and NATO demonstrate GIANT domestic problems, but for some reason the questions are only to the SCO laughing
                Brilliant))

                Above, I gave clearly defined goals, if you can’t see it right away, then you can re-read and think (here it is so) laughing wink
                1. zart_arn
                  zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 35
                  -2
                  Yes, because I and you are pushing your money and considerable money into this SCO. I personally do not want to give them away just like that. And I don’t give a damn about the problems of NATO and the EEC from the high bell tower. They do not affect me, nor you, nor our country.
                  1. Refund_SSSR
                    Refund_SSSR 12 September 2013 11: 36
                    0
                    Go to the EU, since you don’t want to push your money laughing
                    I don’t understand at all what you are still doing in This Country.

                    But I didn’t see anything serious claims to the goals of the SCO.
                    1. zart_arn
                      zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 44
                      +4
                      Are there not enough arguments? Going into insults? That's what I see you already have three "drives". Let's debate in a civilized manner.
                      Yes, I don’t want, as a taxpayer, to pump OWN money into who knows what and why. In MY country there are a lot of problems for the solution of which this money, oh, how useful it would be. And I DO NOT WANT to pay for the voyages of a heap of someone's fat asses, which this money is trite to defile. And the load will be "and now there." Okay, voyages, I really don't like the policy of flirting and coaxing China - you have to keep your ear to it, and we sponsor it with energy resources. What is the benefit of OUR country from this?
                      1. Refund_SSSR
                        Refund_SSSR 12 September 2013 11: 47
                        +2
                        Quote: zart_arn
                        Are you missing arguments? Going to insults?

                        Where did I offend anyone? And where is the criticism of the SCO goals? (I didn’t pull the tongue, I blurted out myself that there were no goals).
                        I spit on your crumbs, who are you ?! laughing What can you invest in the SCO ?!
                        Do not move away from the topic of conversation for money laughing
                        And the fact that I frankly laugh at you is to blame. Write more clearly, argue the words.

                        The only criticism of the SCO comes solely from the goal of the fight against terrorism, but the fact that the SCO does not attack other countries like NATO does not mean that nothing is being done and confirmation of this, recent China Russia exercises as part of the SCO exercises.

                        Few SCO members participating in exercises? So Latvia in NATO just as well can not expose the roof of its only kite laughing And not only Latvia.
                      2. zart_arn
                        zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 56
                        +5
                        The Russian budget is MY and YOUR money, and I do not want it to be wasted for no one knows what. "I don't give a damn about your crumbs!" - here again an example of uncultured polemics. You don't even notice that you are not being polite enough to your opponent.
                        I don’t understand at all what you are still doing in This Country.
                        - is this a normal treatment for you too? I repeat once again, we will be mutually polite and will not go on insults.
                      3. Refund_SSSR
                        Refund_SSSR 12 September 2013 12: 05
                        -1
                        ANSWER WHERE?!?!?!?! laughing
                        Where is the answer to the question that I ask several times already? laughing
                        What kind of clowning?
                        Generally a normal person? laughing wassat
                      4. zart_arn
                        zart_arn 12 September 2013 12: 09
                        +2
                        So you did not answer the question - "Why does Russia need the SCO?" I clearly replied that the SCO in its current form is not only unnecessary for Russia, but possibly even harmful.
                      5. Refund_SSSR
                        Refund_SSSR 12 September 2013 12: 12
                        -4
                        Ahahaha !!
                        No comments laughing
                        They built up a whole branch because of the statement that you have a complaint about the lack of SCO goals, but it turns out I did not answer.
                        I would say ... But the rules of the site prohibit sending there.
                        All the best! hi
                      6. zart_arn
                        zart_arn 12 September 2013 12: 17
                        +2
                        So, young man, you have nothing to say. But the SCO theme and the desirability of Russia participating in it are very relevant. I clearly stated my position why, at the moment, in its current form, Russia's participation in the SCO is inappropriate. You have not done so.
              2. zart_arn
                zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 59
                +1
                We didn’t drink at the Brudershaft. smile
              3. Army1
                Army1 12 September 2013 15: 01
                +1
                Who sees the idea of ​​a military bloc in the SCO, even if so, then Russia and China cannot immediately integrate the armed forces at the political level.
            2. Bigriver
              Bigriver 12 September 2013 12: 17
              -2
              Quote: zart_arn

              Yes, I don’t want, as a taxpayer, to push my money in for what is unknown and why is unknown. In MY country there are a lot of problems for solving which this money oh how useful would be ...

              And why did you decide that you have some competence in resolving state issues? Did your wife tell you?
              Engage in politics then, become a deputy. If you have at least some competence, you will quickly go uphill.
            3. nerd.su
              nerd.su 13 September 2013 12: 54
              -1
              Quote: zart_arn
              Yes, I don’t want, as a taxpayer, to push my money in for what is unknown and why is unknown.

              If each taxpayer is asked what he wants to spend his money on and what he doesn’t want to, then all state activities will cease. And Russia will turn into Poland.
              I do not understand the desire of some citizens to puff out their cheeks, talking about where to spend the taxes that they pay. Lenin, of course, wanted to teach every cook to manage the state. But his ideas are declared utopian. If you want to somehow influence the fate of your taxes - vote in the elections. Do you think the election is dishonest? So democracy, what do you want! Or maybe elections in the USA are more honest? Yeah, Saddam Hussein had nuclear weapons, and Bashar al-Assad uses chemical weapons. How do such impudent liars pass fair elections? laughing
              So you can go or not go to the polls and pay or not pay taxes. And leave questions of foreign policy to professionals.
        2. Bigriver
          Bigriver 12 September 2013 12: 14
          +4
          Quote: zart_arn
          Yes, because I and you are pushing your money and considerable money into this SCO. I personally don’t want to give them away just like that ...

          You reason as a mid-level specialist in any organizationlaughing
          Type:
          - Well, this, our gender is pushing money into expanding the network of representative offices, in presentations, trade fairs, about some kind of strategy we are constantly being cheated on ??? It would be better if he, bastard, added salaries request
          1. zart_arn
            zart_arn 12 September 2013 12: 21
            +2
            The main problem of the Russians is that we do not know how to count OUR money and we think that the uncle at the top will dispose of them better. To be honest, the "uncle at the top" very often confuses OUR money and OUR money, and you support him with your comment.
            1. Bigriver
              Bigriver 12 September 2013 12: 30
              +2
              Quote: zart_arn
              The main problem of the Russians is that we do not know how to count OUR money and we think that the uncle at the top will dispose of them better. To be honest, the "uncle at the top" very often confuses OUR money and OUR money, and you support him with your comment.

              One of the main problems of our society is the desire of a huge number of people to consider themselves a knowledge in everything. This is done by people who can’t do a damn thing in their lives. Because, if they could, they would respect other professions, specialties, other people's work and would be more restrained in evaluating what they completely do not understand.
            2. zart_arn
              zart_arn 12 September 2013 12: 54
              +1
              Do you understand? Then explain to us, dark ones, what is the benefit for Russia in participating in the SCO and in raising funds there. OUR means.
            3. Bigriver
              Bigriver 12 September 2013 13: 30
              +1
              Quote: zart_arn
              Do you understand? Then explain to us, dark ones, what is the benefit for Russia in participating in the SCO and in raising funds there. OUR means.

              I can argue these medium-long-term benefits as I understand it, from my "point of view". But, it may well be that I understand it wrong, or not correctly enough winked
              But it doesn’t suit you? Do you need to know everything definitely exactly in two sentences? laughing
            4. zart_arn
              zart_arn 12 September 2013 14: 05
              +1
              No, why not. We are not gods here who understand everything and do it right. "Uncles Above" are the same people as we are with our strengths and weaknesses. It’s just my opinion (maybe also wrong) that China is not a friend to us, but a competitor and adversary in many areas of activity. Playing "in love" with him is very rash and your opinion (reasoned) is very interesting to me, as well as the opinion (reasoned) of others.
            5. Bigriver
              Bigriver 12 September 2013 14: 44
              +3
              Quote: zart_arn
              ... It's just my opinion (maybe also erroneous) that China is far from a friend to us, but a competitor and adversary in many areas of activity ...

              Good, as I understand it.
              The strategic alignment is such that we (Russia) have to maneuver between the two existing forces (USA-China), each of which is preparing for the upcoming clash and seeks to pull the decisive factor of the clash - Russia to our side.
              "Skirmish" in this case does not mean a military conflict at all.
              What does the USA offer us as a bundle against China?
              The same as everyone else - the lackey following in the wake of his policy. The USA has no equal partners, there are only vassals.
              China is NOT offering us a military-political alliance with it against the United States. In any case, publicly and officially. It offers "long-term" strategic cooperation in the economy. And cooperation in the field of regional security within the SCO. This cooperation is equal and does not impose any restrictions on our foreign policy. This is understandable, he needs at least a neutral rear provided with resources.
              Does this fit our interests? Of course. More broadly, the diversification of hydrocarbon supplies to NEA and Southeast Asia makes the European market much more compliant.
              And, frankly, unlike the United States and China, we do not have an overlap of strategic interests. China's goal is Southeast Asia, which we simply cannot reach through China laughing
              And what is the goal of Russia, I can only assume: ///
              Obviously, the idea of ​​a transcontinental bridge between Asia and Europe.
              Well, that's superficial.
              You can say that for a long time, only the format here does not allow.
              Yes, the role of the SCO below Grbear spoke out. I think the same soldier
            6. eagle11
              eagle11 12 September 2013 16: 08
              +1
              No overlap with China? Yes, he has an interest in all parts of the world, and the further the more. More than he is faithful that in Great Britain there are no plans for military operations with the USA. Unlike Russia in relation to China.
            7. Bigriver
              Bigriver 12 September 2013 16: 15
              +2
              Quote: eagle11
              No overlap with China? Yes, he has an interest in all parts of the world, and the further the more ...

              You know, it’s like in defense or offensive: it’s impossible to be strong everywhere. It is necessary to study the situation, do its analysis and concentrate efforts. China is concentrating its efforts in the most promising and well-known direction.
              But this does not exclude the advancement of his interests in other regions.
              Actually, the states have come to the same thing. They overstrained on the strategy "We are our own, we will build the world in the American way everywhere."
              We often confuse ourselves with regard to China, evaluating its policy and movement from the point of view of Europeans. The Chinese have a key concept of "qian shi". Move forward very slowly, imperceptibly, without throwing and jerking, like a silkworm eats a green leaf smile
              This movement is characterized by comprehensive penetration: economic, financial, cultural, philosophical, moral and ethical. Military, of course, too smile
              The main point here is the creeping aggression of slow digestion. But, it can only work against weak or weakened subjects.
  • the polar
    the polar 12 September 2013 13: 00
    +1
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    Nevertheless, both the EU and NATO demonstrate GIANT domestic problems, but for some reason the questions are only to the SCO laughing
    Brilliant))

    Above, I gave clearly defined goals, if you can’t see it right away, then you can re-read and think (here it is so) laughing wink

    Although, of course, both the EU and NATO have serious problems, nevertheless, the SCO is still an amorphous organization, without decision-making bodies, and its "goals" are just a declaration.
    Cooperation in the SCO should be manifested in the implementation of specific projects to achieve a common goal for all participants. A hardware system should be in place to coordinate and control the implementation of projects. There is none of this yet. We need a leader of politicians - a generator of ideas and ways to solve common problems. So far, there is no such policy in the SCO.
  • Per se.
    Per se. 12 September 2013 11: 48
    +4
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    Well, what’s the purpose of NATO? Who is opposed to?

    They oppose Russia in the first place, and the fact that the "pack of jackals" attacked Yugoslavia with impunity in the center of enlightened Europe, and we could not do anything, says a lot. They, by and large, do not need the Baltic states, nor Poland, nor Ukraine, but they need these countries not to be with Russia or Russia. We are giving up THREAD in Crimea, we are fussing with the expansion of the base in Novorossiysk, as if we are already admitting to leave Sevastopol. Ukraine, already as a springboard, is a godsend for NATO, especially with the deployment of US and NATO bases in Crimea. China is pulling resources and technologies from Russia, and what do we have, besides PR for a "strong friend"? End China's interest in us of diamonds, he will pump up his muscles, and that's it, we will have "Pearl Harbor" from the "Chinese brothers", at the most inopportune moment, instead of longed for help and the dream of a strong ally.
    1. eagle11
      eagle11 12 September 2013 16: 14
      +3
      Similarly, there will be no help from the rank. Now, where are the millions of Chinese helping to deal with the flood? I remember when the Chinese had an earthquake, we mutilated the Domnian airfield 76, dragging the humanitarian aid.
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 12 September 2013 11: 40
    +2
    Quote: zart_arn
    NATO aims to strengthen stability and enhance well-being in the North Atlantic region.



    exactly infa for Ukrainians "stability and increased welfare" synonyms of the magic word HALYAVA
    1. zart_arn
      zart_arn 12 September 2013 11: 48
      +2
      A freebie will not be! Come in - shell out.
  • ATATA
    ATATA 12 September 2013 11: 10
    +2
    Quote: user
    I would very much like to know the true reasons for our alliance with China, he will not play a giveaway, and on all other issues (except the creation of a united front against the United States), we are losing. Remember the conditions under which we supply electricity or long-term oil supplies, it seems that to the detriment of ourselves, if only to maintain good relations with our eastern neighbor.

    But in fact, what bothers you?
    You can express your concerns specifically?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 12 September 2013 11: 20
      +1
      Quote: ATATA
      Can you express your concerns specifically?

      It’s so scary in a dark room, there is no reason, but scary. smile
  • little man
    little man 12 September 2013 11: 23
    +6
    What is the united front against the USA?
    Yes, China is tied to the states much more strongly than we are with China.
  • Bigriver
    Bigriver 12 September 2013 12: 25
    +5
    Quote: user
    I would very much like to know the true reasons for our alliance with China ..... on all other issues (except the creation of a united front against the United States) we are a loser. Remember the conditions under which we supply electricity or long-term oil supplies, it seems that to the detriment of ourselves, if only to maintain good relations with our eastern neighbor.

    Well, let's start with electricity, for example. Does she bother you? wink
    You own the question: at what price and what kind of electricity (which regional energy system) goes to China?
    Then it will be possible to switch to oil .., then to the military-technical cooperation.
    You know that thanks to cooperation with China in the 90s, at least two aircraft factories in Russia could not be ruined - Irkut and KnAAPO (now KnAAZ).
  • il grand casino
    il grand casino 12 September 2013 11: 02
    +1
    Everyone is trying to unite. Strong countries expand their reach. The weak hope for protection ... Ht would be economically. Everything is as always))) But the Chinese are still well done
    1. alone
      alone 12 September 2013 19: 06
      +2
      yeah, already moving towards Central Asia. But Central Asia has always been traditionally considered the territory of Russia under control.
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 12 September 2013 11: 14
    +1
    The SCO has declared its enemy “three evils” - terrorism, separatism and extremism.

    not there you have to look for enemies.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 12 September 2013 11: 51
      0
      Good afternoon.
      The SCO has declared its enemy “three evils” - terrorism, separatism and extremism.
      not there you have to look for enemies.
      And where to look for them? What is your vision of enemies? Sincerely.
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 12 September 2013 13: 47
        0
        Quote: Horst78
        And where to look for them? What is your vision of enemies? Yours faithfully

        in the root causes. there will be no financial, arms support, there will be no terrorism, separatism, etc. Well, everyone already knows the sponsors
  • Essenger
    Essenger 12 September 2013 11: 15
    +8
    This is not a counterweight to NATO. Nonsense.
    1. avt
      avt 12 September 2013 14: 29
      +3
      Quote: Essenger
      This is not a counterweight to NATO. Nonsense.
      Naturally, it cannot, this is just such a club of those who want to talk and feel like a kind of whole, this is not even a TS, where countries, represented by their leadership, take on certain obligations and voluntarily, independently, without any supranational structures, fulfill them. TS is a classic cartel monopolist in a certain area and in a very specific area. Well, what about the SCO? Is there any committee of chiefs of staff? Nuclear Planning Committee? What kind of, well, like in NATO, "parade" rapid reaction forces? Well, what kind of financial structure did they create like a mutual assistance fund and a joint bank? Here the GDP in St. Petersburg within the BRICS signed something similar, but maybe someone will be honored and will highlight such a structure in the SCO? So pampering and politicking.
      1. Essenger
        Essenger 14 September 2013 00: 13
        +2
        avt
        ask these questions to your compatriots) who want to make the SCO some kind of anti-NATO.
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 12 September 2013 11: 28
    +6
    China, - they shot everywhere in time ... But the author is too exalted "heavenly".
    Although China’s plans are grandiose and it’s necessary to keep an ear on it.
    see "Chinese Expansion Inevitable" War Materials. hi
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 12 September 2013 12: 22
      11
      you need to remember that the Chinese are a very cunning people, and disciplined to fanaticism, I am personally strained by the Chinese "vegetable growers" of whom there are thousands and thousands in Russia, the exact number is unknown to anyone, we have a lot of them everywhere in the Urals, almost in every village on the outskirts. greenhouses with poison disguised as vegetables are not a hidden subversion? poison the population in a quiet way? It is not known what generation will be born after such a "meal", bags of chemistry are brought in somehow, all the inscriptions are in Chinese, of course, and the surprising thing is that the authorities are not doing anything! The police will just pop up, immediately call from above, set aside !!! apparently a good share in the case ... and the Chinese themselves, I must say, are not small at all, but tough guys above average height, they do not speak Russian, but oddly enough they understand everything the first time, which is suggestive, but what if at the "X" hour they abandon their hoes and will turn into special forces, which does not need to be thrown anywhere, are they already there, they know everything and are ready to act? paranoia? may be..
  • dimon-media
    dimon-media 12 September 2013 12: 05
    +3
    And yet I UNTIL I have not heard that the SCO is officially declared a military bloc. But I would like to hear this news.
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 12 September 2013 12: 30
    -1
    Another American campaign aimed at increasing distrust of China.
    1. the polar
      the polar 12 September 2013 13: 05
      +1
      Quote: vladsolo56
      Another American campaign aimed at increasing distrust of China.

      Of course, "friends" will always sow seeds of discord between Russia and China.
  • Grbear
    Grbear 12 September 2013 13: 10
    +5
    The SCO is a platform where "Asian" problems are discussed and Russia has no right not to participate in it. This means there will be expenses.

    "Small players" (in the unfortunate expression of the author) are not so small, both geographically and in terms of the content of minerals. The fact that they are in the SCO and not NATO is already a plus. And I have already said that the SCO is an instrument of influence on the States & Ko in Asia and the Middle East, and it must be expanded.

    In foreign policy, we must work everywhere and in all areas. This is the only way to compensate for, I hope, temporary, military lag and "extinguish" the terrorists.

    The author is a minus. No need to crawl headlong under the blanket and "plump": "Everything is bad. They ..."
  • Watson J.
    Watson J. 12 September 2013 13: 39
    +6
    Do not rate my post emotionally. Judge for yourself. The cards have no brothers. Well, we have no "friends forever". Bulgarians, Serbs - sympathize, but they will not go to bed. The Serbs did not lie down for themselves, what kind of brothers there are - the Slavs. Vaughn Ukraine from day to day will finally bristle. And alone in this world there are almost no chances, this is how this world works. Ever since the Cultural Revolution, I have quietly argued to my friends that Russia (then the USSR) has a unique chance to try to create a structure that has never been equal in history.
    I will try to explain it not too long. "Brotherhood of Nations". Hammer on a vulgar slogan, it's just a designation of an idea. In fact, it is a policy of educating the peoples of both countries in the spirit of complete brotherhood. Agree, if everyone is told from birth: Russian and Chinese are brothers forever, and available information will only be about the positive aspects of this friendship, many problems with the Chinese would not exist today. To build relations between states proceeding precisely from this goal. The clauses of the contract are also evaluated on the basis of this. For instance. The immutability and immutability of borders. Non-interference in internal affairs (except for the extreme - coups and treason, which can affect eternal friendship and blah-blah-blah, it was possible to weave a threat to the communist system). Create a permanent committee that would monitor the situation in the countries and would have sufficient rights. One of the points - let's say judicial. Settlement of economic disputes and administrative and criminal liability for crimes committed on the territory of a fraternal country. There may be others, it’s just an idea. Those. initially think over and organize everything in the direction of positive feedback. The economy is naturally like a partner. And if all this policy began at a time when China did not produce shovels ...
    Here, imagine. How much shit would not have happened during this time. There would be no border conflicts, there would be no donation of Port Arthur and Dalian, the mass of Chinese specialists trained in Russia are future business partners (if, of course, they studied in the conditions of "fraternal embrace"). Labor migration is controlled, and even presented ideologically as a "fraternal helping hand."
    Of course, this is a very complex and constant work of diverse specialists in an attempt to correctly assess both physiological and moral-cultural differences in order to understand where and how to create common ground in the framework of the task. But the gain in the presence of the will to obtain a result on a historical scale would be incredible. You can even imagine the PLA troops in support of the August coup (conditionally). Well, or at least the non-recognition of the CIS and the collapse of the Union with all the ensuing consequences (again conditionally, but fits into the framework of the agreement). And many many others. Not a senile-political bureaucratic chattering of Chinese attempts to find “their own way,” but a comprehensive study of the problems proposed by the methods, their study and implementation at home. Those. mutually learn, adopt the positive, and, accordingly, gently influence the brother. I’m not talking about the Cultural Revolution in Russia, it was held here from the 17th to 60th, I’m talking about “revisionism”, which we called pragmatic steps to create an effective economy.
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  • Watson J.
    Watson J. 12 September 2013 13: 40
    +6
    Continuation 1. By the way, and about the cultural revolution, which, thanks to propaganda, has become a kind of insanity experiment. But how many people understand that the current China is built by the hands of the Hungwein? In fact, Mao had to do what naturally happened with revolutionary changes - he tore the ideology of children from the ideology of parents. And he began to grow human material, divorced from feudal thinking. We see the result. In the early 90s, I personally transported Kharkiv electric shavers and combines to China, they didn’t even have that then. They only started to sew rags under awnings. Those. industry, of course, was, but akin to the Soviet one, both in technology and in the organization of production. And now let's compare. Over the years, crap and bankers what have done to Russia? And where did China go? Think about it - just twenty years. And if you imagine that in the 60s they smelted iron in artisanal furnaces? You can not endure their morality and cultural differences as much as you like, but it is difficult to argue with the result, agree. I would rather swap places with them.
    And when I realize the “lost profit” ... “If” there was a geopolitician in his time who pushed this idea in the post-war years ... And the agrarian and weak China would probably agree to such a prospect, for many reasons. Anyway, we armed him. Anyway, we ransacked Voenprom and Tyazhmash there. Anyway, we gave them a bomb. Anyway, we gave them Port Arthuri and Port Dalian. Anyway, we trained a ton of civilian and military specialists for free. Those. Russia swelled billions into China with virtually no exhaust. Well, it is clear that the exhaust had to be obtained even in the form of a “fraternal people” and a military-political union forever. Would it bother us instead of a broken trough? I think no. Not only would it not hurt, but most likely it would help. Being determines consciousness. The generation that grew up on a “suspicious” attitude toward the “wrong Russian Marxists” is different from the generation that grew up on the ideology of the “brotherhood of peoples”. Now China can come to terms with the Westerners much easier, in the language of pragmatic commerce and mutual benefit. What can we contrast now? Resources ... Lived ...
  • Watson J.
    Watson J. 12 September 2013 13: 42
    +5
    Continuation of 2. It’s not too late, while someone is still alive among those who remember our liberating army, while someone still honors Stalin, while the West has not wedged wedges into relations and has lured China to its final camp (see shareholders of the Bank of China ), in my opinion, it is necessary to use the entire arsenal of means to bring “courses” closer. Of course, what you could have learned about 60 years ago cannot be returned, but you need to work in this direction. Between the tolerant and backward Europe and the banker aircraft carrier “democratic” states, I would choose pragmatic China as partners. In many ways. And on the predictability of decisions, and on the economy. Maybe it's not too late? Maybe you should fight for such a future? Play now on mutual interests, but they are. Especially in the financial sector. In fact, China has nothing to choose from. Either go along the path that he is taking now - this is the accumulation of gold (but gold cannot play the role of the world currency), or create its own currency (but so far China alone will not be able to withstand bankrupt aircraft carriers, but it’s already building its own), or ... Time while there is. A little, but there is. China is losing and will lose a lot more on a collapsing dollar, they understand this very well. The timely introduction of the joint currency naturally put the world on the threshold of the third world. So what to do? Sitting and waiting for the bankers to bust you? China is preparing a gold pillow (along with Western banks, it is a pillow for both China and them). But this is just a pillow, no one knows what the collapse of green will actually turn into, and China is arming itself. Purely hypothetically, if countries for which the collapse of the dollar can be terribly painful, and which are suffering now. Say Russia, China, Brazil, are not afraid to join forces in this direction, and not wait for the weather by the sea. The result will still be one sooner or later - the green will deflate. Why wait if you know the result? It is logical to take preventive measures, especially in conditions where it is quite clear in which direction. Something (perhaps even more than we know) is brought to us in the form of information about the creation of joint banks and funds. It naturally freezes Banksters to the insanity of war. There is a platform for rapprochement with China, we must try to push through the maximum positive effect both now and in the future. We will miss time - we will be at the next trough. Surviving the collapse of the dollar in national apartments. There will still be chaos, war is still possible, but on whose side will China be in this situation? On his own. With its joint stocks of gold with western gold banks. And Russia in this situation will need China only as a raw materials appendage. And then only the nuclear shield will be contained, which will have to be sent there too. Brush missiles against the whole world? Do we have enough strength and money? Can it be economically and politically more profitable to get closer on the basis of creating a joint global currency and control the situation with the fall of green by ourselves? Dumb? And I think that the Chinese will not be scared if they are now offered iron guarantees of military cooperation.
    Do not tear to pieces. Better try offering the third option.
    1. albert
      albert 12 September 2013 19: 50
      0
      Quote: Watson J.
      until the west poked wedges into relations and finally lured China to its camp

      It is doubtful that the West will lure China over to itself. A strong China is in itself an enemy of America. In addition, the Chinese understand that the Yankees cannot be trusted, they will take advantage of them and "throw."
  • Watson J.
    Watson J. 12 September 2013 13: 42
    +1
    Continuation of 2. It’s not too late, while someone is still alive among those who remember our liberating army, while someone still honors Stalin, while the West has not wedged wedges into relations and has lured China to its final camp (see shareholders of the Bank of China ), in my opinion, it is necessary to use the entire arsenal of means to bring “courses” closer. Of course, what you could have learned about 60 years ago cannot be returned, but you need to work in this direction. Between the tolerant and backward Europe and the banker aircraft carrier “democratic” states, I would choose pragmatic China as partners. In many ways. And on the predictability of decisions, and on the economy. Maybe it's not too late? Maybe you should fight for such a future? Play now on mutual interests, but they are. Especially in the financial sector. In fact, China has nothing to choose from. Either go along the path that he is taking now - this is the accumulation of gold (but gold cannot play the role of the world currency), or create its own currency (but so far China alone will not be able to withstand bankrupt aircraft carriers, but it’s already building its own), or ... Time while there is. A little, but there is. China is losing and will lose a lot more on a collapsing dollar, they understand this very well. The timely introduction of the joint currency naturally put the world on the threshold of the third world. So what to do? Sitting and waiting for the bankers to bust you? China is preparing a gold pillow (along with Western banks, it is a pillow for both China and them). But this is just a pillow, no one knows what the collapse of green will actually turn into, and China is arming itself. Purely hypothetically, if countries for which the collapse of the dollar can be terribly painful, and which are suffering now. Say Russia, China, Brazil, are not afraid to join forces in this direction, and not wait for the weather by the sea. The result will still be one sooner or later - the green will deflate. Why wait if you know the result? It is logical to take preventive measures, especially in conditions where it is quite clear in which direction. Something (perhaps even more than we know) is brought to us in the form of information about the creation of joint banks and funds. It naturally freezes Banksters to the insanity of war. There is a platform for rapprochement with China, we must try to push through the maximum positive effect both now and in the future. We will miss time - we will be at the next trough. Surviving the collapse of the dollar in national apartments. There will still be chaos, war is still possible, but on whose side will China be in this situation? On his own. With its joint stocks of gold with western gold banks. And Russia in this situation will need China only as a raw materials appendage. And then only the nuclear shield will be contained, which will have to be sent there too. Brush missiles against the whole world? Do we have enough strength and money? Can it be economically and politically more profitable to get closer on the basis of creating a joint global currency and control the situation with the fall of green by ourselves? Dumb? And I think that the Chinese will not be scared if they are now offered iron guarantees of military cooperation.
    Do not tear to pieces. Better try offering the third option.
  • knn54
    knn54 12 September 2013 14: 17
    +2
    SCO is an alternative center of political (so far) power for those countries that believe that the world is not unipolar.
  • IGS
    IGS 12 September 2013 14: 18
    +5
    I didn't think that this issue would cause so many discussions ... But for me: we need this alliance, if only to create another, albeit small, counterweight to the United States (after all, the ships of the Celestial Empire went to Syria, and the UN together fought off Syria ). But for those who are afraid of China: "Keep your friend close, and the enemy even closer." And judging by the presence of this article, and by the activation of the zaslanets smile on this thread, this union oh, how someone does not like it, although they shout that this is a dummy. "Nobody hits a dead dog."
  • Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 12 September 2013 17: 13
    +1
    In my opinion, an alliance with China is the only way to leave the power of the dollar. True, given our difference in economies, you can become dependent on the renminbi. This must also be taken into account.
  • Jogan-xnumx
    Jogan-xnumx 13 September 2013 02: 17
    0
    To whom it is, but for me, sorry, you .ser is, gentlemen, comrades. Already passed, we know ... stop Hitler and Stalin were leveled, they tried to squeeze communism into the same Nuremberg bench with fascism, Orthodoxy turned out to be "outdone" in its ferocity. Oha. fool Now NATO is being "washed" and dubbed. Really zasr. Were so high quality that they themselves stink? They would also attribute the bombing of Yugoslavia to the SCO, lol provocation of the current war in Afghanistan and chem. attack in Syria ... One world "aggressor", the USSR, that is, disappeared thanks to the "fighter" for freedom of the "progressive" West. Now it is necessary to mold a new "aggressor" ... Arabs and Koreans, probably, become too small for the aggressors ...