Military Review

Putin returns to Russia the status of a great power in the international arena ("Atlantico", France)

184
While the international community could not get off the ground over the Syrian crisis, the Russian president managed to find a solution with which most of the main actors agree. In diplomatic circles he is already called a “masterful” move.


Putin returns to Russia the status of a great power in the international arena ("Atlantico", France)Atlantico: On Tuesday, Bashar Asad eventually agreed to a proposal from Moscow regarding the transfer of a chemical arsenal under international control. Should this initiative be viewed as a concession by the Kremlin, or is it part of a larger strategy?

Philippe Mego: One does not necessarily exclude the other. The initiative can be viewed primarily as a gesture of goodwill on the part of Moscow and Damascus, but at the same time it may well be part of a broader strategy that should knock the ground out from under Washington and its French, Saudi and Qatari allies. I also want to note that the decision of Assad to accept this proposal is quite logical, because it allows him to extricate himself from a difficult situation. This is a double-edged sword and at the same time a clever diplomatic move. If Western leaders had abandoned the opportunity offered by Putin, they would have exposed themselves as shameless instigators of war in the eyes of the international community, which is having more and more doubts about the justification for American plans to intervene. Now the advantage is clearly on the side of the Kremlin, while the White House and the Elysee Palace are in a difficult situation.

- There were opinions that the elimination of the chemical arsenal of the regime would be too difficult to implement in technical terms. So, maybe, for Moscow and Damascus, this is just a way to gain time in an atmosphere of international pressure?

- I would say that Russia's goal is rather not to gain time, but to become a key player in the international arena. The operation to eliminate the arsenal will consist of several phases. At first, it is about taking control of these chemicals. This can be done in the shortest possible time. This requires a UN resolution and the dispatch of the necessary contingent to the country, which will have to ensure the security of the warehouses. In current conditions, all this is achievable. At the same time, the elimination weapons indeed, it can take a long time (it took Russia and America years after the end of the Cold War), especially since there are no specialized centers needed for that in Syria. Thus, although the destruction of the Syrian chemical arsenal in the near future is clearly not worth waiting for, control of these weapons, which can be achieved in a short time, is already an essential diplomatic guarantee. Washington and Paris will not be able to begin intervention under the pretext of delays in the destruction of weapons, thus not undermining the remnants of trust in themselves.

Moscow is not without pleasure put in an awkward position Barack Obama, who had to postpone the vote on the intervention in Syria in the US Congress. If the parliamentarians endorse the blows in the end, which seems unlikely for now, the Assad and Putin maneuvers will indeed allow them to win several days or even weeks, but they will be more tactical, not strategic.

- Criticism of the initiative was voiced only by the Syrian opposition, which declared fraudulent "political maneuvers" of the regime. What can she lose as a result?

- The Syrian opposition is losing the war, which is generally known to everyone. The only thing that could help the rebels to take a breath (although it would not guarantee a final victory), this is precisely the Western intervention, which in particular could negate the superiority of Bashar al-Assad in the air. Thus, it is easy to understand that a political negotiation decision cannot bring them anything good, especially considering that a significant part of the opposition has always been against negotiations with representatives of the regime. Although a diplomatic solution would suit most of the parties involved in the conflict (Russia, Syria, USA ...), the political weight of the rebels in future negotiations would be purely symbolic. It turns out that the rebels lose their positions, both in war and in politics. Of course, they will be consulted with them, but they clearly cannot influence the situation in any way.

- During a speech in Munich in 2007, Vladimir Putin outlined his diplomatic plans and stressed that Moscow could be an alternative to the American unipolar world. Can we say that the Syrian episode at the moment serves as proof of this?

- Russia has really become a significant player on the international political scene, in connection with which it can be assumed that Putin managed to achieve his goal. It even seems to me that Russia has managed to come to the fore in a number of international issues, despite the fact that the US influence is constantly declining. Since the European Union practically plays no role in politics, there is no real counterweight to the strengthening of Russia, China and other developing powers in the world (Brazil, India ...).
Author:
Originator:
http://www.inosmi.ru/world/20130911/212859661.html
184 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Lech from ZATULINKI
    Lech from ZATULINKI 12 September 2013 07: 14 New
    34
    Russia really has become a significant player on the international political scene, in connection with which it can be assumed that Putin managed to achieve his goal.
    I would not rush into such a conclusion.
    Militarily, RUSSIA is capable of destroying any state; in the economy, we are still on the sidelines.
    That's when RUSSIA can keep the world on a financial hook, then we can talk about power.
    1. Apollo
      12 September 2013 07: 29 New
      13
      US Ambassador to Moscow: Obama likes Putin's straightforwardness
      "I must say honestly: Obama likes Putin because he is a direct person. Obama loves this very much.
      more details http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2013/09/12/1174717.html
      1. omsbon
        omsbon 12 September 2013 07: 40 New
        51
        Quote: Apollon
        US Ambassador to Moscow "I must say honestly: Obama likes Putin,

        On the lips of this protector of the gay community, the word like sounds ambiguous!
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 15: 08 New
          +7
          Quote: omsbon
          On the lips of this protector of the gay community, the word like sounds ambiguous!


          Yes uzhzhzh .... GDP in favor ... laughing
      2. washi
        washi 12 September 2013 11: 48 New
        +4
        Quote: Apollon
        US Ambassador to Moscow: Obama likes Putin's straightforwardness
        "I must say honestly: Obama likes Putin because he is a direct person. Obama loves this very much.
        more details http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2013/09/12/1174717.html

        And how else stupid to explain? Clearly and concretely. Like a "little brother" on the arrow
        1. smile
          smile 12 September 2013 17: 57 New
          +2
          washi
          Sorry, I accidentally clicked a minus .... I will not! :)))
          Just don’t say: “Nothing, nothing, I spat on your back” :)))
      3. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 12 September 2013 17: 36 New
        +6
        Quote: Apollon
        Moscow, not without pleasure, embarrassed Barack Obama, who had to postpone the vote on intervention in Syria in the US Congress.


        Is Putin direct? wassat It should be noted that Putin is able to clearly state the idea. She sets out so competently that she is ashamed of her interlocutor. But, this does not mean that it is direct.

        He smiled again:
        Moscow, not without pleasure, embarrassed Barack Obama, who had to postpone the vote on intervention in Syria in the US Congress.


        It seems that Moscow is one person who enjoys the moral suffering of Barak Huseynovich. Sadly, just some. Here it would be necessary to rephrase the type: the Russian Federation made it possible for the US talking head to break the verbal dead end into which it drove itself, showing excessive independence.
    2. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 12 September 2013 07: 31 New
      14
      Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
      Russia really has become a significant player on the international political scene, in connection with which it can be assumed that Putin managed to achieve his goal.
      I would not rush into such a conclusion.
      Militarily, RUSSIA is capable of destroying any state; in the economy, we are still on the sidelines.
      That's when RUSSIA can keep the world on a financial hook, then we can talk about power.

      Still, social stratification in society, if not removed, then significantly reduced, and also solved the enormous problem with migrants from Central Asia and the near-republics of the Caucasian republics ... Putin would have no price!
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 12 September 2013 11: 36 New
        +4
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Still, social stratification in society, if not removed, then significantly reduced, and also solved the enormous problem with migrants from Central Asia and the near-republics of the Caucasian republics ... Putin would have no price!


        Exactly, do not forget about the internal problems of the country, about people.
      2. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 11: 50 New
        +7
        GreatRussia SU <! - QuoteBegin
        Still, social stratification in society, if not removed, then significantly reduced, and also solved the enormous problem with migrants from Central Asia and the near-Caucasian republics ... Putin would have no price! [/ Quote -> <div class = "title_quote ">
        But this is a great problem.
        Those who watched the so-called budget classifier, by monetary allowance, will see-POVERTY. An attempt to transfer everything to commercial rails is full of nonsense, until, by law, by willpower, direct coercion, call some efficiently defective property owners an axiom, you don’t pay people, get ready to get the pitchfork sideways, there will be no order, there will be no development. At the enterprises of the military-industrial complex, how much do they get? In the same Arzamas? Managers and managers and hard workers? In the Army, does the GP receive?
        I'm not talking to the leapfrog on pension provision, today I heard the nightingale songs of Erovets Isaev about new reforms, from the base rate of 3670 rubles for a pensioner, and there was a desire to fill his smug face, to put him together with the whole EP and their deputies public sector pay in 7ooor and retirement, of the same scale, perhaps wiser.
        Remember the words of Putin, they say what kind of disgrace in the Far East, feed for a hundred rubles a day?
        And this means that the top management simply does not get how much data there is and what they get in the country, masking the actual data into data on average for the hospital, where in the morgue there is ZERO or minus 5, and in resuscitation plus 39.
        In general, the model of liberal monetary economy and finance, for Russia now, is not just a dead end, but a clear brake and guarantee of defeat.
        And the understanding at the top, this, no, was not and it seems will not be.
        the appointment of libertarians to senior posts in charge of economics and finance does not contribute to optimism. One Golikova, Madame Arbidol, is worth it ....
        The problem with internal migration — and who prevents building in Sevkavkaz — creating jobs — corruption will aim and their complete impunity, external migration, so whoever stops it, if liberal executives, scream in a good curse that without external migrants, the country's economy supposedly All why, yes, just, remember the formula of Marx, at the expense of crime, for a percentage of profit.
        Is it still not clear to pay one’s worthy salary, always for a liberal, effectively defective property owner, is unprofitable than to pay a migrant from Middle Asia five to ten times less than her own.
        In general, if politics outside the country, as it pleases, then inside the country, there is no optimism.
      3. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 15: 09 New
        +9
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Still, social stratification in society, if not removed, then significantly reduced, and also solved the enormous problem with migrants from Central Asia and the near-republics of the Caucasian republics ... Putin would have no price!


        First you need to "push" on dirty and sticky little hands from the outside.
        And the fifth column has a fifth corner.
    3. Firstvanguard
      Firstvanguard 12 September 2013 07: 37 New
      24
      You have to start somewhere. Without weight in politics, the economy in the current realities cannot be raised.
      That's when RUSSIA can keep the world on a financial hook, then we can talk about power.

      Russia is a Power and has always been to it!
      Vladimir Vladimirovich, so keep it up!
      1. Arabist
        Arabist 12 September 2013 14: 23 New
        0
        We are a great power now. It would be more correct to say about the full return of superpower status.
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 September 2013 08: 08 New
      22
      Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
      That's when RUSSIA can keep the world on a financial hook, then we can talk about power.

      Then Russia will become like the USA. Putin succeeds in raising the rating of Russia without blackmail and financial hooks.
      1. S-200
        S-200 12 September 2013 08: 31 New
        24
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Putin succeeds in raising the rating of Russia without blackmail and financial hooks.

        hi Alexander, well, about financial hooks you got excited ...
        Putin also has one very little financial hook - BRICS Bank! wink
        the truth is "only" 50% of the world's population and $ 100 billion for a start ...
        But, dashing misfortune - BEGINNING!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 12 September 2013 08: 34 New
          +4
          Quote: S-200
          Putin Has One Little Little Financial Hook - BRICS Bank

          This is not a hook; as far as I know, BRICS Bank is different or will be different in that it will not put forward political demands when allocating loans.
          1. Natalia
            Natalia 12 September 2013 09: 11 New
            10
            Moscow, not without pleasure, embarrassed Barack Obama, who had to postpone the vote on intervention in Syria in the US Congress.

            Not in an awkward position, but just put all 50 states in a puddle smile
            And as rightly said above, without threats and financial pressure, clean work ...
            Steel overcomes softness, the pen will turn mountains ...
            1. hommer
              hommer 12 September 2013 12: 23 New
              +7
              Quote: Natalia
              Not in an awkward position, but just put all 50 states in a puddle


              Yes, I agree, the United States diplomatically lost. In my opinion, there was a phrase on the post -
              "Well, what kind of partners do Lavrov come across - either a loser who cannot figure out her family, or three times wounded from a patrol ship ..." laughing
          2. S-200
            S-200 12 September 2013 09: 28 New
            +2
            well-intentioned paved road to ...))
            "let's see!"
            global finance and without politics - nonsense ..
            remember the beginning of the unification of Europe and the introduction of EURO, and now ... - Greece, Spain, Portugal ...
            Even if inside the BRICS countries everything will be openwork, it will be if not with a hook, but with an awl in the causal place of the IMF (USA))))
          3. Nitup
            Nitup 12 September 2013 10: 19 New
            +7
            The purpose of the IMF in the issuance of loans is that these loans not be repaid, but instead given away the sovereignty of the country. Therefore, they were so opposed when Putin gave them loans. I don’t know how BRICS Bank will deal with this
        2. washi
          washi 12 September 2013 11: 52 New
          0
          Quote: S-200
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Putin succeeds in raising the rating of Russia without blackmail and financial hooks.

          hi Alexander, well, about financial hooks you got excited ...
          Putin also has one very little financial hook - BRICS Bank! wink
          the truth is "only" 50% of the world's population and $ 100 billion for a start ...
          But, dashing misfortune - BEGINNING!

          Most finances are from China, unfortunately. They already want to set up a BRICS bank in Shanghai.
          And while the west comes upon us, because of the support of Syria, China is buying land there.
        3. maklaut007
          maklaut007 12 September 2013 22: 30 New
          +1
          Putin repeats Stalin’s decision. This was one of the reasons for his murder. Ugh, ugh not by night. let's hope that the story does not happen again.
      2. a52333
        a52333 12 September 2013 10: 03 New
        +1
        Basketball player Obama too hesitated with the ball - and the judoka Putin used against him a technique so beloved in this fight: he turned the force of the opponent's throw against himself. And all the spectators realized that now Obama will not be able to hold not only a three-pointer, but just a successful throw. In the stands they still do not shout “Akela missed!”, But it’s already clear that they think so. And not about the most unlucky player, but about his entire team.
        Glance.RU
    5. dimon-media
      dimon-media 12 September 2013 09: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
      That's when RUSSIA can keep the world on a financial hook, then we can talk about power.

      Then we will become a parasite country, becoming like the United States. The vast majority of the world's population will hate us as well as them. how many will have to print nat. currencies, so how to keep the usa on the financial hook? I doubt that we can provide every bill. No, we do not need such a repetition of the financial pyramid scenario (as in the USA). MMM is also to me .. with Sergey Mavrodi. laughing
    6. honest jew
      honest jew 12 September 2013 13: 52 New
      +4
      Krasava Vladimir Vladimirovich !!! Keep it up !!! Yes, good health and strength for the revival of Mother Russia !!!
    7. Deniska999
      Deniska999 12 September 2013 14: 47 New
      +3
      Militarily, RUSSIA is capable of destroying any state; in the economy, we are still on the sidelines.


      And our army is rather weak for such a territory. Especially aviation, missile defense, air defense. Nuclear warheads alone do not war. Do you want - minus, but this is basically true.
    8. Sirs
      Sirs 13 September 2013 05: 26 New
      0
      A fast-growing flexible economy is the key to success. I think we need to set goals for a certain period and move towards them. Large projects in Siberia and the Far East - these are the works that will give us an impetus. You can enter 5 years.
  2. chistii20
    chistii20 12 September 2013 07: 31 New
    10
    Mother Russia practically recovered after the tragedies of the 90s. A Russian bear woke up who will make everyone reckon with himself. It only pleases
    1. eplewke
      eplewke 12 September 2013 09: 53 New
      +1
      We are lucky with Putin. Although there are still many problems in the country, there is a positive tone. Compare what happened to us 15 years ago, goosebumps run ... But right now, even in geopolitics we burst into something like this: A cock, a hare, a hamster, a pig, a tiger cub and all kinds of other things are sitting in the hut, it’s raining outside, the drops knock on the roof and then the door opens without knocking and a wet bear comes in, the hare immediately gave way, the pig squealed jumped under the table, and the bear sat down opposite the chicken and looked menacingly into her eyes ... everyone froze in anticipation of what the bear would say. ..
      With all its drawbacks and blunders, Vladimir Vladimirovich is worthy of respect and worthy of ruling the Russian people, and all his minuses and shortcomings are just a lack of personnel ...
    2. Max otto
      Max otto 12 September 2013 10: 52 New
      14
      In the subject, at the expense of "woke up." They will have a tantrum soon.
      1. dry
        dry off 12 September 2013 19: 37 New
        0
        And you did not pay attention to the plate on the grill "Do not feed the Russian bear!"?
  3. Tatarus
    Tatarus 12 September 2013 07: 32 New
    10
    Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
    Militarily, RUSSIA is capable of destroying any state; in the economy, we are still on the sidelines

    What is so interesting to many people
    The economy is not paramount. Here the Ferocious Jackals of Hell reign but do not rule. Putin is not fighting Obama, but the world behind the scenes. Even if he was in it earlier today he is like Prometheus, carries fire to people.
    1. Lech from ZATULINKI
      Lech from ZATULINKI 12 September 2013 07: 42 New
      +5
      Let me disagree - the backstage of the world rules the world with the help of finances (green candy wrappers in the USA).
      You can cover yourself with missiles and tanks to the very top, but this will not make EUROPE accommodating another thing if there is a crane in every house in EUROPE without which they can not survive the winter and which RUSSIA can block any moment - this is a much more effective weapon.
      That is why in the WEST they are trying to deprive RUSSIA of a monopoly on various supplies of energy resources.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 September 2013 08: 12 New
        +3
        Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
        Let me disagree - the backstage of the world rules the world with the help of finances (green candy wrappers in the USA).

        You can’t disagree, but you don’t see that you yourself can’t bring their money into the swamp. They managed a lot that they collected 16 trillion debts.
        Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
        That is why in the WEST they are trying to deprive RUSSIA of a monopoly on various supplies of energy resources.

        In the 90s they couldn’t deprive, and now they will be sent even more so. For example, the northern and southern streams.
        1. v.lyamkin
          v.lyamkin 12 September 2013 12: 31 New
          0
          With the monopoly on energy, some competitors appear: for example, shale gas. But maybe this is for the better. Quickly, we start to itch on the topic of how to quickly get off the oil needle, and there will be more for sebe.
    2. dry
      dry off 12 September 2013 19: 54 New
      +1
      That is, pays for it (like Prometheus) with his liver, which is tormented by EAGLE?
  4. a52333
    a52333 12 September 2013 07: 33 New
    19
    GDP +++++++ !!! Last night, Vesti 24 was shown. Italy in the posters of GDP in uniform. He’s popular there, at least go to the polls.
    1. Humen
      Humen 12 September 2013 07: 44 New
      10
      Moreover, this is not only in Italy. =)
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 September 2013 08: 13 New
      13
      Quote: a52333
      He’s popular there, at least go to the polls.

      Yes, he will win in Germany laughing
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 15: 13 New
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Yes, he will win in Germany


        Is this Angela Merkel on the ground? laughing
  5. Zhenya
    Zhenya 12 September 2013 07: 46 New
    0
    Good article.
  6. Odysseus
    Odysseus 12 September 2013 07: 51 New
    +7
    If the enemy praises you, then it’s rubbish. I immediately recall Gorbachev’s superpopularity in the West in the late 80s.
    While it is completely incomprehensible what the "gain" of Russia is. The USA started the Syrian war for 2 reasons.
    1) In an effort to remove the Assad government independent of them (and therefore hated)
    2) In an effort to eliminate the Syrian chemical weapons, which are a clear threat to Israel, especially in anticipation of the "battle for Iran."
    However, despite all the efforts, the militants could not solve their problems. Hence the threat of direct aggression. But aggression is very unpopular in the West and is also very expensive.
    And here ....- Russia's proposal to eliminate the chemical weapons of Syria. This solves all problems! The purpose of the war is achieved for no reason, "freebie." It is not surprising that the United States so clung to this idea.
    And besides, no one bothers them to continue supplying guns and money to the militants. And no one can give guarantees that after the elimination of chemical weapons, the United States will not threaten to bomb again under any pretext.
    IMHO, the transfer of chemical weapons should be accepted only under the guarantee of a complete refusal of the West to support militants in any form.
    Otherwise, it will only be in the hands of the United States.
    1. niksup
      niksup 12 September 2013 08: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Odyssey
      And no one can guarantee that after the elimination of chemical weapons the United States will not begin to threaten bombing again under any pretext.

      Only during the elimination of chemical weapons we will have time to put and train the Syrian army to work with 300
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 12 September 2013 08: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: niksup
        Only during the elimination of chemical weapons we will have time to put and train the Syrian army to work with 300

        This is not an argument. Chemical weapons are 100 times more important than the S-300. In the conditions of the civil war, it is extremely difficult to carry out full-fledged air defense. In Syria there are already Armor and Buki. Has this helped to reflect Israel's attacks?
        1. 77bor1973
          77bor1973 12 September 2013 08: 33 New
          +5
          Chemical weapons are another reason to get "mash" from the United States and its allies, as well as the ongoing provocations of militants. With this proposal, the soil is knocked out from under the feet of the Saudis and the catarrh is anchored in their throats.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 12 September 2013 08: 58 New
            +2
            Quote: 77bor1973
            Chemical weapons are another reason to get "wort" from the United States and its allies, as well as ongoing provocations of militants

            Chemical weapons are Syria’s only real military argument. Yes, it’s scary to use them, but if they are placed under “international control”, Syria will become defenseless.
            Quote: 77bor1973
            With this proposal, the soil is knocked out from under the feet of the Saudis and the catarrh is anchored in their throats.

            What is it for them? They will continue to send cannon fodder to Syria from all over the Arab world.
            And there is a lot of cannon fodder.
            Of course, we hope that you are right, but I would not give up weapons.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 12 September 2013 10: 07 New
              +2
              Quote: Odyssey
              Chemical weapons are Syria’s only real military argument. Yes, it’s scary to use them, but if they are placed under “international control”, Syria will become defenseless.

              The only significant goal for the chem. weapons may be Israel.
              The USA will easily give up the rest to the slaughter in order to achieve its goals in the region.
              How defenseless is Israel against the danger of chem. attacks?
              What carriers can Syria hypothetically use to deliver OM?
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 15: 18 New
                +4
                Quote: Flood
                The only significant goal for the chem. weapons may be Israel.


                Here is the GDP and warned that the "promised land" will be the next goal of the provocation - "And I warned ...".
              2. Odysseus
                Odysseus 12 September 2013 20: 21 New
                +2
                Quote: Flood
                The only significant goal for the chem. weapons may be Israel.

                Another Turkey with an Amer base. But the main goal is Israel.
                Quote: Flood
                How defenseless is Israel against the danger of chem. attacks?

                It is very well protected. But with a properly organized attack you can break through.
                Quote: Flood
                What carriers can Syria hypothetically use to deliver OM?

                Su-24, MiG-23BN, Su-17M3, Tochka, Scud and its Syrian modifications. Maybe I forgot something.
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 13 September 2013 10: 43 New
                  0
                  You understand me correctly. In fact, Syria’s chemical weapons are not a deterrent to Israel.
        2. niksup
          niksup 12 September 2013 09: 18 New
          +6
          Only the next step could be the introduction of a small detachment of peacekeepers to protect our chemical weapons specialists, but they will not attack then, the experience of Georgia has shown that we will respond.
      2. alone
        alone 12 September 2013 22: 16 New
        +1
        and what will it give? since when did the weapon of mass destruction become on a par with the zrc? what will bring down the c-zoo in the fight against militants? toyota with machine guns?
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 12 September 2013 08: 37 New
      +8
      Quote: Odyssey
      IMHO, the transfer of chemical weapons should be accepted only under the guarantee of a complete refusal of the West to support militants in any form.

      I beg you, what guarantees can there be in international politics? Syria’s chemical weapons, in fact, can only be useful to terrorists for all kinds of actions. Yes, maybe even in wars with opponents such as, for example, Jordan or Saudi Arabia. In a war with Israel, it will not decide anything. If Syria used chemical weapons against Israel, it would most likely have been destroyed, since a war of survival would have gone. Syria and Israel understand this. Therefore, Israel is not particularly fussed when it is in the hands of the government, but is very worried about its getting into the militants. Perhaps most of all, Israel does not need terrorists at hand with such trump cards, you can’t come to an agreement with them.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 12 September 2013 09: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Vladimirets
        I beg you, what guarantees can there be in international politics?

        True, therefore, weapons cannot be surrendered without the specific actions of the United States and its allies. For example, the lifting of sanctions, a ban on the supply of weapons, recognition of the Assad government, etc.
        Quote: Vladimirets
        In a war with Israel, it will not decide anything. If Syria used chemical weapons against Israel, it would most likely be destroyed

        Yes, it would have been destroyed, but it could have inflicted real damage to the enemy. And what damage can Syria do to Israel and the United States without it. None.
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Therefore, Israel is not particularly fussed when it is in the hands of the government, but is very worried about its getting into the militants

        Israel supports the "opposition." This is quite reasonable, they do not need strong Arab states at hand (especially secular ones). But Israel also wants to supply chemical weapons under international control. Why should they give such a trump card?
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Perhaps most of all, Israel does not need terrorists at hand with such trump cards, you can’t come to an agreement with them.

        He doesn’t agree. “Terrorists” are completely controlled. In case of victory of the “opposition” they will deal with their internal disassembly, as in Libya. Some will be thrown by their sponsors to other fronts. They do not pose any threat to Israel. Maximum if Israel needs to carry out any provocation with the help of Mossad they will be allowed to carry out a couple of terrorist attacks.
      2. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 12: 09 New
        +2
        Vladimirets RU
        Isn't Israel fussing?
        Is it having weapons of mass destruction, chemical warfare and biological weapons? Of course you can not fuss, knocking out chemical weapons from the hands of the Syrians, for complete impunity in their actions.
        forgot, 1975, when Israel was ready to use nuclear weapons? Someone denied the existence of one hundred to two hundred nuclear warheads in Israel? Why should Syria in this case refuse weapons of mass destruction and Israel does not?
    3. rugor
      rugor 12 September 2013 08: 40 New
      +1
      The elimination of Syrian chemical weapons will last years. Amers need war - this drives their economy, creates jobs.
    4. Wedmak
      Wedmak 12 September 2013 08: 58 New
      +5
      Not to liquidate and not to transfer, but to put under control. These are different things. And if a chem. Assad’s weapons will be under control, provocations with their use will clearly indicate the party that used it. The US will have nothing to cover for the invasion.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 12 September 2013 09: 23 New
        0
        Quote: Wedmak
        Not to liquidate and not to transfer, but to put under control. These are different things.

        In this case, the important thing is that the Assad government will never be able to use it. What America needs.
        Quote: Wedmak
        provocations using it will unambiguously indicate the party that applied it. The US will have nothing to cover for the invasion.

        Reason for invasion can be found easily.
        Dress the militants in the form of government troops and massacre, put chemical weapons from Saudi Arabia and "find" it.
        1. Nitup
          Nitup 12 September 2013 10: 43 New
          +4
          I believe that Russia has other weighty arguments against aggression, and the proposal for chemical. weapons - this is an agreement between the Russian Federation and the United States, which they concluded even before the public offer of Russia. I’ll explain: the USA has reached a dead end when it’s bad for them to strike Syria (after all, I would like the terrorists to cope without direct US interference, there is no monopoly in the media, the same Russian channel RT), and just to give “back” means show your weakness and indecision to everyone else. So we proposed that it would be easier for them to retreat without losing face (but everyone understands everything, at least the elites of the countries), as if under their pressure, take control of the chemical weapons, because of which the United States allegedly wants to to strike. And so, as arguments, we have both a monetary union within the BRICS framework and ships in the Mediterranean capable of transmitting information to the Syrian air defense, as well as destroying the Tomahawks directly with their own naval air defense, arms supplies to Iran in case of aggression against Syria, etc.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 12 September 2013 20: 32 New
            +3
            Quote: Nitup
            I believe that Russia has other weighty arguments against aggression

            Russia has one way to protect Syria - declare it a zone of its national interests and send troops there (at least the Air Force).
            But no one will decide on this clear matter. It would be nice to better control your border and prevent the appearance of militants from Russia (Chechnya, Dagestan) in Syria. And there are unfortunately a lot of them.
            We are engaged in diplomatic cover and carry ammunition. This is right and noble, but these are half measures.
            The return of chemical weapons is, in my opinion, a dubious defense ...
            Quote: Nitup
            And so, as arguments, we have both a monetary union within the BRICS framework and ships in the Mediterranean capable of transmitting information to the Syrian air defense, as well as destroying the Tomahawks directly with their own naval air defense, arms supplies to Iran in case of aggression against Syria, etc.

            From what you have listed, IMHO, it is only possible to sell weapons to Iran. But the United States will not stop it.
            1. Nitup
              Nitup 12 September 2013 21: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Odyssey
              Russia has one way to protect Syria - declare it a zone of its national interests and send troops there (at least the Air Force).

              Like this? We, like, are constantly repeating that Syria is a sovereign country and must solve its own internal problems, and you propose to send troops there? This is nonsense in international law, in defense of which we so advocate.
              Quote: Odyssey
              The return of chemical weapons is, in my opinion, a dubious defense ...

              Not everything is as simple as it seems at first glance. And Putin didn’t, just offered it. So, there are effective arguments. And the possible use of Syria chem. weapons are hardly holding back the US from striking now.
              1. Odysseus
                Odysseus 12 September 2013 22: 50 New
                0
                Quote: Nitup
                Like this? We, like, are constantly repeating that Syria is a sovereign country and must solve its own internal problems, and you propose to send troops there? This is nonsense in international law, in defense of which we so advocate

                So Syria itself invited us and the PRC to send troops. And as for "international law," after the collapse of the USSR, these phrases lost their meaning. The United States declares any territory a zone of its interests and does whatever they want with regard to it. What they consider right is there is a right.
                And then I do not propose to send troops there, I say that this would protect Syria. Why offer the impossible? It is clear that now no one will dare.
                Quote: Nitup
                Not everything is as simple as it seems at first glance. And Putin didn’t, just offered it. So, there are effective arguments.

                I hope you're right. Let's see.
        2. alone
          alone 12 September 2013 22: 20 New
          +1
          Quote: Odyssey
          Dress the militants in the form of government troops and massacre, put chemical weapons from Saudi Arabia and "find" it.


          or worse. find some corrupt general, supply him with chemical weapons and use him.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 12 September 2013 22: 39 New
            0
            Quote: lonely
            or worse. find some corrupt general, supply him with chemical weapons and use him

            It’s also an option, but you never know what you can think of. In general, the return of weapons rarely brought anyone to good.
            Let's hope for the best, of course.
            PS I apologize for ignorance, but in Azerbaijan are Sunni Muslims or Shiites?
    5. Egoza
      Egoza 12 September 2013 09: 27 New
      +5
      Quote: Odyssey
      Seeking to eliminate the Syrian chemical weapons, which are a clear threat to Israel, especially in anticipation of the "battle for Iran."

      But I don’t understand - there was a proposal "to take control of chemical weapons ..." Does this mean to eliminate? "Here are warehouses with chemical weapons - check, everything is in place, we are not wasting anything ..." But the rebels could no longer use these same weapons. Because then it will be clear who uses it. I think so.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 12 September 2013 09: 39 New
        +3
        Quote: Egoza
        But I don’t understand - there was a proposal "to take control of a chemical weapon ..." Does this mean to eliminate it? "Here are warehouses with chemical weapons - check, everything is in place, we are not wasting anything ..

        I agree, the phrase “take control” can have many interpretations. But the main thing is that Assad will not be able to use chemical weapons.
        Quote: Egoza
        But the rebels then no way this same weapon can be used. Because then it will be clear who uses it. I think so.

        Yes, they especially do not need. They used chemical weapons for the purpose of provocation.
        Their owners will easily come up with another scheme for the following provocations.
        1. Arabist
          Arabist 12 September 2013 14: 21 New
          0
          Odysseus, I do not agree with you. Did Iraq have chemical weapons and did they help him a lot?
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 12 September 2013 20: 35 New
            +3
            Quote: Arabist
            Odysseus, I do not agree with you. Did Iraq have chemical weapons and did they help him a lot?

            When? In 2003, it was almost gone. In 1991 it was, but Iraq did not dare to use it, and in general fought the war extremely passively. For which it was punished.
            Later, Libya abandoned the WMD, the result is obvious.
            But the DPRK spits on international control, and feels great.
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 12 September 2013 20: 53 New
              +1
              You may be right, but now the situation is changing almost every day and no one is sure how events can go. Let's get a look.
      2. v.lyamkin
        v.lyamkin 12 September 2013 12: 36 New
        +1
        Alas, after another provocation, it can be stated that Assad did not transfer all the chemical weapons, but hid something. And all over again rush.
      3. alone
        alone 12 September 2013 22: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Egoza
        But I don’t understand - there was a proposal "to take control of a chemical weapon ..." Does this mean to eliminate it? "Here are warehouses with chemical weapons - check, everything is in place, we are not wasting anything ..."


        in addition, this means that having transferred Syria to control it will no longer be able to use it under any circumstances.
    6. mirag2
      mirag2 12 September 2013 09: 35 New
      +2
      That's it! For the umpteenth time I see your comment, which, among the cries of “Hurray!” And other manifestations of momentary joy, is distinguished by caution and rationality! You can’t live for one minute, you always need to think about what’s next?
      If the United States wanted to strike, they would strike it. If the reason in the form of a chemical attack did not go away, they concoct another.
      Making statements in the international political arena is not a buy a chocolate. Obama wasn’t racking his brains either, thousands of people are preparing ready-made options for him in advance, and he is doing everything for the benefit of his country. And if he agrees to withdraw chemical weapons, then the pluses from this will outweigh the benefits of hitting Syria now. And Putin needs to buy time at all costs.
      And when the Israelis say that they are not interested in a war with Syria, they lie. That’s why, of course, they themselves don’t want to fight, but what would anyone do, Assad, and after that Iran is their dream. For the monarchies of the gulf have some kind of relationship.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 12 September 2013 09: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: mirag2
        That's it! For the umpteenth time I see your comment, which, among the cries of “Hurray!” And other manifestations of momentary joy, is distinguished by caution and rationality! You can’t live for one minute, you always need to think about what’s next?

        Yes, no problem. I can scream at least a hundred times Hurray and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Putin, if only there was a sense.
        But so far, in response to putting the chemical weapons under control, we see only vague promises to put the strike on hold. IMHO, we need to be very careful about this. Perhaps we don’t know something, and Assad needs a break so much that he’s ready make any sacrifice.
        In any case, with a "cheers" I would wait a while.
        1. Icestar777
          Icestar777 12 September 2013 12: 27 New
          +2
          And what did you expect that they would immediately apologize, say that they were wrong and got excited ?! All that the USA is saying and doing is just an attempt, not to drop its chocolate face into the dirt very hard, to cut the back. In this matter. And you have to be full of imbeciles, so that after all this, try again to get to the bottom of Syria. They will try to realize their initial plans on the other side, so that it would not be so obvious. Here you have to be prepared for any dirty tricks, and it was for this preparation that Putin won the time by beautifully otmazyvaya Syria and giving US plush.
        2. smile
          smile 12 September 2013 18: 13 New
          0
          Odysseus
          Yes, the fact of the matter is that Putin proposes to take control of chemical weapons only in the case of Obama’s clear firm guarantees of refusal to use force. In the event they violate their obligations, what will prevent them from removing this control and restoring Assad’s right to dispose of it at his discretion? In fact, this is a compromise solution that allows the striped hawks to save face and abandon the already practically declared military operation, in the implementation of which they had some unforeseen difficulties.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 12 September 2013 20: 43 New
            +3
            Quote: smile
            Yes, the fact of the matter is that Putin proposes to take control of chemical weapons only in the case of Obama’s clear firm guarantees of refusal to use force. In the event they violate their obligations, what will prevent them from removing this control and restoring Assad’s right to dispose of it at his discretion?

            I agree that in this form it is acceptable. But only in this one. It was not bad to achieve the rejection of recognition of the government of militants as the only representative of the Syrian people.
            Okay, stock up on optimism.
    7. eplewke
      eplewke 12 September 2013 10: 00 New
      +2
      It’s not like something to be praised. This is the objective opinion of the author, and the worldview of the masses who think about the position of this world. Putin was both panosili and vilified in the west, called tyrants, a gay abuser, etc. So everything is fine, there is a lot of dirt ... smile
    8. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 15: 16 New
      +5
      Quote: Odyssey
      I immediately recall Gorbachev's overpopularity in the West at the end of the 80's.


      They still wonder why this labeled devil is so popular with "them", and with us it is clearly "not respected."
      I no longer have any phrases to explain, except for "Mother f ... r".
  7. Revolver
    Revolver 12 September 2013 08: 06 New
    0
    It seems that a couple of months ago, Assad would respond to such a proposal by the GDP that he does not understand what it is about, and what chemical weapons are meant if Syria did not have it in nature. As everyone here knows A good word and a gun convince much better than just a good word. But Obama did not even realize that Putin was using the AUG led by Nimitz as a gun to convince Assad to correctly respond to Putin’s kind words. As a result, if everything goes well, Putin, in the light of the flashbulbs, is like a genius in foreign policy, and Obama is out of business, only in vain did the AUG drive.
    Well, thank God, axes - they cost a lot of money to taxpayers to throw them in vain.
    1. smile
      smile 12 September 2013 18: 23 New
      +2
      Revolver
      Syria NEVER hid the presence of chemical weapons. No international organizations have ever committed Syria to get rid of it. Syria has never violated any obligations related to WMD. You are mistaken, or the wrong information is at your disposal.
      In the event of an invasion, chemical weapons will most likely simply be returned to Assad’s disposal in connection with the violation of the guarantees provided to Syria.
      Moreover, it could not have saved Syria — in fact, it’s only a weapon to deter Israel — the threat of unacceptable damage. After its application, Syria would have come to an end anyway.
    2. Vakhtang
      Vakhtang 12 September 2013 19: 27 New
      +2
      Judging by your comments, you are not Nagan, but rather Nathan.
  8. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 12 September 2013 08: 07 New
    +2
    from Don
    It’s interesting, what role can the Geyts play in international politics if they look into their master’s mouths? You can’t even fart without asking! Dumbfounded poor guys returning Russia to the world’s political map, the Geys are at a loss what else can bring to the GDP? : fighters: for crap! A year ago, I would not have believed it!
    1. Dangerous
      Dangerous 12 September 2013 08: 50 New
      +3
      Who are the Geyts?
      1. borisjdin1957
        borisjdin1957 12 September 2013 08: 55 New
        +1
        from the Don.
        Nursery of Sodomy-Europe !!!
  9. left-wing
    left-wing 12 September 2013 08: 21 New
    +3
    Yes, Putin let the false Western invaders slip through! They are not used to the fact that even their allies condemn their will.
  10. ReifA
    ReifA 12 September 2013 08: 22 New
    +5
    Without articles, it’s clear to us that Russia is a world power. But the Europeans will not hurt to remind more often.
  11. revers-trotil
    revers-trotil 12 September 2013 08: 40 New
    +2
    And some say at rallies that Putin is a thief. They do not reach his knees and are not even worthy of tying shoelaces.
    1. krpmlws
      krpmlws 12 September 2013 09: 13 New
      0
      Why don’t they just say, for example, that Putin, being in his first presidential term, said that they say why finance the army, if the money is stolen anyway. Therefore, it is his fault for the collapse of the army and the military-industrial complex, for Serdyukovism, for Medvedev’s the collapse of education and science, for the protection of the oligarchy, bureaucracy, theft, corruption, capital flight, drug addiction, the coalescence of the police and organized crime, the prosecution of patriots (Kvachkov), etc. But I do not believe this, all this is speculation on temporary difficulties, because Putin is our everything, without him the Russian Federation would not have been as a single state. A low bow to you for everything.
  12. dimon-media
    dimon-media 12 September 2013 08: 47 New
    +4
    Rotted west. Our time has come, comrades / gentlemen. (as you like) drinks
  13. andruha70
    andruha70 12 September 2013 08: 58 New
    +1
    Putin returns Russia the status of a great power in the international arena
    it’s time for a long time already to “chew snot” while listening to “utter nonsense” of Western shit, it’s time to “wet (diplomatically) in the toilet” wassat
  14. true love
    true love 12 September 2013 09: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: GreatRussia
    Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
    Russia really has become a significant player on the international political scene, in connection with which it can be assumed that Putin managed to achieve his goal.
    I would not rush into such a conclusion.
    Militarily, RUSSIA is capable of destroying any state; in the economy, we are still on the sidelines.
    That's when RUSSIA can keep the world on a financial hook, then we can talk about power.

    Still, social stratification in society, if not removed, then significantly reduced, and also solved the enormous problem with migrants from Central Asia and the near-republics of the Caucasian republics ... Putin would have no price!


    The solution to the problem of migrants is the creation of new jobs in their place of residence. Here on the forum, someone already wrote about this. All this worked in the USSR. Putin is on this path. A man capable of withstanding tremendous pressure at times superior forces - can not help but sympathize even with the leaders of other powers. His strength and determination (of Putin) are the main driving factor in supporting his actions by residents of other countries, as is happening now in Italy. The charismatic leader is the weapon of victory!
  15. mirag2
    mirag2 12 September 2013 09: 12 New
    +3
    All of this is super, and very good. Even too much. For example, it annoys me only one thing - the headlines of yesterday's American newspapers were in this vein- "Putin outplayed Obama," "Putin puts Obama on the shoulder blades" - will this be a signal for the military hawkish lobby in the US (and it was pushing Obama to strike in Syria), to strike anyway, afraid to lose the move. Type- "How is America and lost something?"
  16. mirag2
    mirag2 12 September 2013 09: 20 New
    +1
    And yet. If, in nature, the States worked out some kind of lave, then all the same, those who wanted to weaken the Syrian army can achieve this in other ways. I think that the aircraft carriers will not get out of there. They will graze there until they find another reason to smack missiles.
    For if it is true that the Americans and the British themselves concocted both the chemical attack video and the chemical attack itself, what should they concoct another provocation later on? -Yes nothing.
  17. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 12 September 2013 09: 26 New
    +3
    They write Russia, Russia, reborn in general. But if it were not for the president’s steel eggs, they would sit now and watch on TV the next “desert storm” or admire the cowards of another Viagra. Upstairs, a couple of people are engaged in the revival of Russia, and when Putin leaves, it's scary to think about what will begin. In the same place there is such a lower cauldron lower, but they don’t give a damn about everything.
    1. dimon-media
      dimon-media 12 September 2013 10: 07 New
      +2
      I am also very worried about our country when Putin's presidency ends. I really hope that Putin has already found his successor, whom he trusts as himself and who will keep the chosen GDP rate at all costs (he wanted to say, even at the cost of his own life). A la Hugo Chavez = Maduro.
      1. v.lyamkin
        v.lyamkin 12 September 2013 12: 41 New
        +1
        I hope that this is not Medvezhonkin.
    2. Wolf3d
      Wolf3d 12 September 2013 10: 33 New
      +1
      but I believe that there are candidates. Nobody dumps Shoigu, Lavrov and others
    3. Icestar777
      Icestar777 12 September 2013 12: 48 New
      +3
      In this, I hope he will not leave very soon. And if the election will again offer a combination -..........- Putin Putin and Putin, I personally shouting URA will support this option. If only the GDP had enough power for this.
      1. Wolf3d
        Wolf3d 12 September 2013 19: 57 New
        +2
        I agree, but time still passes .... And immortality is not invented.
  18. King
    King 12 September 2013 09: 30 New
    +6
    Seeing the successes of Russia under the presidency of the country's GDP, the West simply pisses with envy and anger with boiling water. Russia sees the positive dynamics that are taking place in Russia. Thank you Vladimir Vladimirovich for the fact that we have once again become proud of our country.
  19. Slotxnumx
    Slotxnumx 12 September 2013 09: 48 New
    +5
    What Thursday is positive, in the morning there are so many positive articles!
    1. Apollo
      12 September 2013 10: 39 New
      +6
      Putin nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
      President of the All-Russian Education Fund Sergei Komkov sent a letter to the Nobel Peace Prize Award Committee with a proposal to accept the candidacy of Russian President Vladimir Putin.
      http://www.vz.ru/news/2013/9/12/649977.html

      It is high time. yes
      1. Feka
        Feka 12 September 2013 11: 26 New
        0
        Quote: Apollon
        Apollo


        Damn, I only had such an idea yesterday, I wanted to
        on offer, ahead of wink good
  20. aszzz888
    aszzz888 12 September 2013 11: 13 New
    +2
    Obama has appropriated all the merits of Russia to himself and his ped.kam!
    Insolent and stuck in the root!
    Do not give descent to the merikatos.
  21. Sunjar
    Sunjar 12 September 2013 11: 17 New
    0
    And the good neighbors of Syria read "friends" will be in complete sorrow. They promised even money, and maybe even gave it. This is a setup, setup, comrades.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 15: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: Sunjar
      And the good neighbors of Syria read "friends" will be in complete sorrow. They promised even money, or maybe even gave


      The god of horns did not give a vigorous cow ... But they remembered all this "passage".
  22. Bigriver
    Bigriver 12 September 2013 11: 35 New
    -1
    Apparently, VladVlad, as the most influential politician in the world, won first place in Forbes this year. love
  23. michajlo
    michajlo 12 September 2013 11: 42 New
    +4
    Quote: Apollon Today, 10:39
    Putin nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
    President of the All-Russian Education Fund Sergei Komkov sent a letter to the Nobel Peace Prize Award Committee with a proposal to accept the candidacy of Russian President Vladimir Putin.
    http://www.vz.ru/news/2013/9/12/649977.html

    It is high time. yes

    Good afternoon, dear nickname! Excuse me, I don’t know how to dignify you?

    I allow myself not to rejoice with this message, for me personally it’s just right to cry. crying
    Especially if you remember that before this, the western polit-elite of the "dirty Nobel" gave such "outstanding patriots of the USSR / Russia" like Sakharov, Solzhenitsyn, Gorbachev ...

    So if to this "the heroic row of Russian knights"Putin wants to stick THEN the true price will be exactly the same to him as the above "patriots of love" ... fool
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 12 September 2013 12: 33 New
      +3
      I would probably be in place of GDP, said "thank you, no need" and went on to raise Russia.
    2. v.lyamkin
      v.lyamkin 12 September 2013 12: 43 New
      +2
      In-in, I also wanted to say that the company is not very suitable, despite the name.
  24. washi
    washi 12 September 2013 11: 57 New
    +6
    Sorry, but do you sometimes watch the news? The GDP said that in order to control Syrian chemical weapons, the military threat must be eliminated. The military threat is the militants, the United States and Israel, with whom there is no peace treaty.
  25. fklj
    fklj 12 September 2013 12: 10 New
    +4
    I paraphrase Professor Preobrazhensky: "Do not read foreign newspapers before meals." All their press is yellow.
  26. shitovmg
    shitovmg 12 September 2013 12: 38 New
    0
    With all its drawbacks and blunders, Vladimir Vladimirovich is worthy of respect and worthy of ruling the Russian people, and all his minuses and shortcomings are just a lack of personnel ...
    We have frames! There are enough worthy people for the whole world !!! Yes, and we have a lot of Putin! Now it’s necessary to “break through”, and such people in the shade honestly do their duty, often in poverty. I support Putin, I am positive, but I will never vote for him.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 12 September 2013 12: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: shitovmg
      I support Putin, I am positive, but I will never vote for him.

      You do not see the contradictions in this proposal?
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 13: 14 New
        +2
        Icestar777 SU
        I absolutely do not see.
        Supporting action in the international arena, yes, of course.
        And here are actions within the country - for all the outrages - from the notorious Serdyukovism, to idiocy with the housing and communal services, education, medicine, the military-industrial complex and the Army (in terms of service life, to any experiments with the states, as a result of which, for example, it looks like TECHNICAL SUPPORT-killed) is not supported and criticized.
        Maybe you, because of leavened patriotism, do not see something?
        http://politobzor.net/show-4609-zemlya-rossii.html
        1. Icestar777
          Icestar777 12 September 2013 13: 34 New
          0
          Do not consider it arrogance, but throw in a personal for whom you voted, I want to understand something for myself.
          1. Icestar777
            Icestar777 12 September 2013 13: 49 New
            +1
            And answer me the following question please. Having inherited a large but very battered house, inside and out, with holes in the fence and aggressive neighbors, what will you try to do first? Especially if you are going to live in it, and not sell it.
            1. Vlad 1965
              Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 15: 15 New
              +3
              Icestar777
              But this is not obvious, where do you need to start?
              Probably, from the analysis of the Augean stables, in which there is so much old G., the country is suffocating from stench.
              Surnames to name? Or are they already at everyone’s ears, and seeing their smug faces, the optimism of yours does not increase?
              Holes in the fence? Lathe, who's stopping? Martians, or the notorious policy of openness?
              Well, how, did they open up to the flows of D .... ma from the West, from drugs to the rainbow, porn and verbiage in the form of the so-called masterpieces of cinema from all sorts of balabans to delights of erofeev literature?
              Shabby house?
              So, before our eyes, the experience of Belarus, without significant resources, but quite worthy of thieves, such as Baumganters, Kerim, and other compradors-novorish (who bought stolen from Rybolovlev) is not there.
              Aggressive neighbors is who?
              Georgia? Hmm, but what prevented the convinced liberal lawyer, who played the role of a heating pad for the throne, in 2008, catch the Amer’s rat by its tail, weigh it on an aspen, for edification, recall the St. George Treatise and say, behind the Big Ridge, there is no enemy, there is province?
              Aggressive neighbors are limitrophs or what?
              Because of the limitrophs, someone will get into a fight with Russia 7 There are no economic methods of influence?
              Liberal-monetary management style in the country, in general, fill your pocket now, otherwise you will be deprived of this pleasure, even to the detriment of national interests, a disgrace for the country and a guarantee of its defeat.
              An example of actions in relation to Belarus, for the sake of comprador-nouveau riches, what is it talking about? Is there concern for Russia or elementary zeal for the nouveau riche type Kerimov?
              So who sells the interests of Russia?
              Not a liberal monetary clan in the Government and other government and commercial structures? You don’t see that the composition of the current government is a team of unprincipled laymen?
              About whom I voted for, in the list of my preferences, all kinds of spoilers of the EP and the EP itself is not included.
              I do not see anything good at all in these opportunists.
              1. Icestar777
                Icestar777 12 September 2013 15: 23 New
                +2
                I heard you.
                1. Icestar777
                  Icestar777 12 September 2013 15: 25 New
                  +1
                  But you seem to me not.
                  1. Vlad 1965
                    Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 16: 15 New
                    +2
                    Icestar777 SU
                    Try to explain why I didn’t hear you?
              2. fklj
                fklj 12 September 2013 15: 44 New
                0
                good good good
                Thanks Vlad. I rarely meet like-minded people here. Mind and rights are rare guests here.
                1. Vlad 1965
                  Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 16: 14 New
                  +2
                  fklj SU
                  Thank you, drinks on a kind word!
                2. Icestar777
                  Icestar777 12 September 2013 16: 21 New
                  +1
                  And terry pessimism, fortunately, too. Well, gentlemen, wherever you look, is everything bad? A period of change and adjustment never goes smoothly. Everything and everyone has their own time. Or do you want everything at once? This does not happen. And answering
                  Quote: Vlad 1965
                  Maybe you, because of leavened patriotism, do not see something?
                  I will say. I am not blind, not deaf and, I dare to hope, not stupid. I see, hear and draw conclusions. I analyze what has been done and make my (for myself) forecast for the future. And this future does not scare me, but quite the contrary, it gives some hope for the best. Not even hope, but rather confidence.
                  1. Vlad 1965
                    Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 16: 35 New
                    +3
                    Icestar777 SU
                    “The period of changes and adjustments never goes smoothly. Everything and everyone has their own time. Or do you want everything at once? So it doesn’t happen” -Say the period of change?
                    25 years old, you have all the changes, for comparable time intervals, except for devastation, bedlam, endless reforms for the sake of reforms, you have not achieved anything.
                    At the bottom there’s a video, and underneath is a comment, so when you reach at least 30% of what you’ve done then, only in this case you can be at least minimally proud of something.
                    “I’m not blind, not deaf, and I dare to hope, not stupid. I see, hear and draw conclusions. I analyze what I’ve done and make my (for myself) forecast for the future.” - Free will, saved paradise, in this “paradise” of liberal bedlam , RUSSIA, as a great country, has no future.
                    The brawl of one heap of nouveau riche, against the other, does not lead to development.
                    Speak, compare, draw conclusions, well, do it, you’re your-cheers-kvass-gas patriotism, I have my own, more sober and based on practice, and not on emotions.
                    "Hope" for the future .... in Moscow, 30% saw "hope for the future" in the reincarnation of Yeltsin No. 2-Navalny, behind whose shoulders, PROKHOROV, grinned this Predator, does not inspire optimism, for those who understand what it is FUTURE in liberal monetary packaging.
                    1. Icestar777
                      Icestar777 12 September 2013 16: 53 New
                      +1
                      You write all the time
                      Quote: Vlad 1965
                      YOU have achieved nothing

                      Quote: Vlad 1965
                      YOU have all the changes

                      YOU, YOU. And you do not live in this country? Does this concern you? Do you personally do something to change something? Or can you and YOU just like to criticize? WE are here r ... but that's it, and you're so all in white and not happy with everything. We found that to give an example, the elections in Moscow, do not disturb all in one pile. It’s enough not to forget who in Moscow is the vast majority of “Muscovites”. And don’t dare! Say that RUSSIA has no future like a great country. SHE was, is and will be a great country!
                      1. fklj
                        fklj 12 September 2013 17: 04 New
                        0
                        Well, it has begun "and who are you ?"
                        Transition to personality is a sure sign of scarcity of arguments and bad taste wink
                      2. Icestar777
                        Icestar777 12 September 2013 17: 21 New
                        0
                        Do not distort. I have not yet transferred to personalities. Here the clash is not of individuals, but of opinions. Yes, and forgiveness, I forgive you.
                      3. smile
                        smile 12 September 2013 18: 44 New
                        -2
                        fklj
                        Do not forget to tell this secret to your colleague Vlad 1965, otherwise he is. miserable, not in the know ... :)))
                      4. fklj
                        fklj 12 September 2013 19: 11 New
                        -1
                        Now you are like the character of the cartoon Mowgli. In appearance and content. Are you going north? laughing
                      5. smile
                        smile 12 September 2013 19: 58 New
                        +2
                        fklj
                        If you are absolutely unreasonably trying to blame your opponent for the actions that your supporter is committing, then what can I do but curse you? Or do you consider yourself untouchable? :))
                        As for whom, where to go ... well, go where you are sent ... where, I hope you understand, will you find your own path? :)))
                      6. fklj
                        fklj 12 September 2013 20: 18 New
                        0
                        Or do you consider yourself untouchable? :))

                        We are all equal here. Or not, Comrade Generalissimo? smile

                        If you are absolutely unreasonably trying to blame your opponent for the actions that your supporter is committing, then what can I do but curse you?

                        Mutual respect is my credo. But what can you say with passion? The main thing is from myself, and not according to the approved texts.

                        As for whom, where to go ... well, go where you are sent ... where, I hope you understand, will you find your own path? :)))

                        Rudeness from the Marshal? Are you afraid of the administration sanctions? laughing I was more honest. Although not quite right.
                      7. fklj
                        fklj 12 September 2013 20: 27 New
                        -1
                        Do not forget to instruct the marshall cons smile

                        Good luck hi
                      8. smile
                        smile 12 September 2013 21: 37 New
                        0
                        fklj
                        Well, as you wish, I set it up. :))) And all the best to you - if there is any need, please contact, I can help, I will help .... :)))
                      9. fklj
                        fklj 12 September 2013 21: 47 New
                        +1
                        laughing I will certainly take advantage
                  2. smile
                    smile 12 September 2013 21: 35 New
                    +1
                    fklj
                    Of course, we are all equal, which is why your dissatisfaction with my criticism is surprising. Or, again, do you consider yourself and your supporter, the unscrupulous and cowardly rudeness of Vlad 1965, untouchable? :)))
                    When you mentioned “hotly”, what did you mean by the fact that you unreasonably accused Icestar777 of sins more inherent in your like-minded person? Or is the communication style of Comrade Vlad 1965, who is unable to think differently in the heat of the moment? :)))
                    And what, you or your like-minded (rare :)) voiced by someone approved texts? My condolences....:)

                    And the last.
                    Since I am a god-fearing Marshal :))), I am an orthodox Tolstoyan ... :))) but sometimes, when some boors burrow, the bad character takes its toll, and I put them in their place .... strange, but some are terribly unhappy and immediately remember the human rights, the rules of the site and the fact that they are in a hurry ... is it really strange? :))) It is also strange that some people think that they are more honest anyway ... :)))
                    It is worthy of respect that you have acknowledged your wrong, though partially ... :))) But I must say that I was right. :)))
                    By the way, I do not have the slightest relation to the administration, and you can without any fear contact the administrators complaining about me, this is not good ... :)))
                    Goodbye.
                  3. fklj
                    fklj 12 September 2013 21: 52 New
                    0
                    God-fearing Marshal Something new. Most likely you were the first to voice this phrase.

                  4. smile
                    smile 12 September 2013 22: 11 New
                    +2
                    fklj
                    Well, at least here we are in agreement. :))) By the way, in my deepest conviction, without humor it is impossible anywhere.
                    They didn’t start to scandal ... very well, I hope we will not be able to bark anymore. :))) +, + - both are marshals. as requested, although what's the difference? :)))
                  5. fklj
                    fklj 12 September 2013 22: 26 New
                    +1
                    I hope barking will not happen to us anymore.

                    Well, unless I get a thoroughbred avatar)))


                    Although, if you look, the comments have been made for that ... In any case, trolls here are free to use, because they introduce a “conflict” (((

                    And with +/- the truth, they are indifferent to me
              3. fklj
                fklj 12 September 2013 22: 02 New
                +1
                Yes, it’s full of you. wink
        2. Vlad 1965
          Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 11: 51 New
          +1
          fklj SU
          Hmm, you definitely outlined the behavior of a certain "Arabist." drinks
  27. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 17: 26 New
    +2
    Icestar777 SU
    YOU and YOU are a reference to a specific mass of people, and not tearing yourself away from the country.
    To criticize is the right and duty of any CITIZEN of the country, not kvass-gazpatriota, who has earplugs in the gorges, and blinders on his eyes.
    I have every moral right to do so, because, unlike many buzzers, I did so much for my country and to the extent that it was supposed to be from my position, I did not run from the war.
    What and how should I tell you not to forbid me, WITHIN THE "DEVELOPMENT" in liberal monetary, Western patterns, in RUSSIA, the future is NO, GET IT.
    “It’s enough not to forget who in Moscow is the overwhelming majority of“ Muscovites. ”“ SO WHO is the overwhelming population of MOSCOW?
    DO YOU ALREADY MEMBER Moscow SEPARATE FROM THE COUNTRY?
    Do you understand the depth of the stupidity that you wrote?
  28. Icestar777
    Icestar777 12 September 2013 17: 42 New
    0
    You cited Moscow as an example, I
    Quote: Vlad 1965
    . in Moscow, 30%, saw "hope for the future" in the reincarnation of Yeltsin No. 2-Navalny, behind whose shoulders, PROKHOROV,
    I told you about Moscow and there were so many shushers gathered there that the Golden-headed one becomes sorry. Regarding the future of Russia, history will judge us. And I do not mean "Western patterns", Russia has its own path, its own mentality. Criticizing is definitely everyone's right. Bulk prokhorovs are not for me and I think for all sane people, idols, I do not consider them people at all.
  29. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 17: 55 New
    +2
    Icestar777
    A little lower, an Arabist deigned to give out a pearl about the smell of a swamp - if his brain is not able to understand what is written, then it says dysfunctions of the thought process, not to understand the obvious, this is a clinical manifestation of insecurity to think critically and logically.
    All the trash has come to Moscow — YOU will call PEOPLE who, due to the fact that they really don’t have to go there in the country of work?
    Is this my neighbor who has three children, DISCUSSION? Just because there is no work in the town, he has become a scumbag for you7You understand what stupidity you write7
    Does Russia have its own path? Yes, the path is different from the WEST, but you, in your comments, are already infected with exactly the Western spirit, snobbery corrupting the whole country of MOSCOW, turned into an octopus strangling that very country.
    History will judge - it’s possible for an unlimited time, to deceive a group of people for a rather long time, but people have never succeeded in deceiving infinitely. And in this model, a complete FRAUD, it is impossible for the country to live. all frank info-trash, lies and other nonsense, like the opuses of the notorious Svanidze, the Brewers, Radzinsky and other liberal liars.
    If Putin, finds the strength in himself, to reject all this rubbish from himself, he will not be priced, he will remain as he is, in history he will remain with a negative sign.
    TWO-already in History with the stigma — ONE bald, stigmatized JUDA-Gorbachev, the second with the stigma of a destroyer and a drunkard — Yeltsin — for shame on Chechnya 1, you can’t wash yourself forever.
    "Bulk prokhorovs are not for me and I think for all sane people, idols, I don’t consider them people at all." There are agents of the country's destructive idea of ​​liberalism, in a purely western, purely destructive sense.
  30. Arabist
    Arabist 12 September 2013 18: 01 New
    0
    And no one needs Vlad to buy a Russian language textbook. What a horror, as I only dared to doubt the sacred teachings of Vlad, I have no forgiveness. I see you as parents in childhood did not raise. Good luck.
  31. Icestar777
    Icestar777 12 September 2013 19: 16 New
    -1
    You know? I'm sorry for you! A person who sees only black and white and does not distinguish between midtones is essentially an unhappy person. What does white have to do with yourself and those who share your opinion, and everything else and everyone else, those who dare to oppose their point of view to yours, are in black. And you called a nonsense of people who came to work in Moscow to work, I mean those who bring down the Mother See so that it would be easier to get lost in the crowd. And after all, what a shame, it is clear that you are completely sincerely rooting for your homeland ... It will become much easier for you if you finally see that the glass is half full and not empty. Good luck.
  32. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 10: 07 New
    +1
    Icestar777 SU

    "I told you about Moscow and there were so many bushes gathered there that the Golden-headed One becomes sorry. Regarding the future of Russia, ...." - YOUR words?
    etymology of words-Schusher and trash explain?
    You should not make a touching face, in the hope that your torments, not related in any way to the subject of the dispute, there is reason to believe that you answered me at least one question.
    Next, what do you think, on the border of Black and White, what color? I bring you, Gray.
    So you confused the unsightly gray fog in our country, with the multicolor of life, and this is very bad.
    Both you and I, wish the country Prosperity and Power, but if you take up the propaganda of achievements, then you should not hide your head in the sand and from the ugliness of modernity.
    You wrote that there are a lot of “Pepelats” on the roads, yes, there is such a thing as that. That all this mass of “Pepelats” in 80% of cases is CREDIT, will you spread iron on bread?
    And the cases when those caught on a credit needle lose everything — all over the country — you don’t go for it? CASE OF AUTHORITY, stop the egoism and appetites of predators.
    And so, yes, the beauty of the "Pepelatsev" bunch.
    LOANS, can you clearly explain the Citizen’s contribution to the bank, interest is 2-8, and the loan is from 14,5 and higher? And for some who are very insolent, like HOUMCREDIT, other companies get 50-60%, this is called ?
    This is not black, this is the reality of today's life, although, however, if you are wearing pink glasses, you see everything a little differently.
    At the expense of happiness or unhappiness, refrain from personal assessments, even though in your arguments, you did not refute me in any way, even taking into account the "support" of a certain Shmul, an empty person who believes that virttogon makes him seem like a significant figure , as well as a certain Arabist, who did not oppose anything to my opinion, but something gurgling at the level of mercaptan exits in the swamp.
    And the last one, to a certain Shmul, I was told that if I was engaged in propaganda, then doing it so rudely, stupidly and on elevated tones, when the tail was pinched, is not worth it, it doesn’t listen to him, nor those who listen to his “opinion”.
    And, as for the Arabist, I have to note empty empty-mindedness, and the absence of arguments, is the quality of a near mind.
    Spelling in his opinion is not the same, punctuation is not the same, the main thing is that he understood what he was talking about, and if he did not understand, then this is a problem of his mental apparatus.
    So do what you should, performing your functions, but without the help of such helpers, there is more harm than good from such ones, because lies, lies, half-truths are always striking.

    Thank you for the pleasure of the dispute, regardless of some discrepancies.
  33. smile
    smile 12 September 2013 18: 42 New
    0
    Icestar777
    Hello. Allow me to express your support. Unfortunately, I can not participate in the discussion, due to the fact that once being forced to teach Comrade Vlad 1965 for rudeness, he was prudently blacklisted, away from sin :)))
    You’re a great smart girl, and once again I am made to be proud of our women - not far-fetched women get here ... whereas there are plenty of male characters like the same Vlad 1965:). +++++++++
  34. Icestar777
    Icestar777 12 September 2013 18: 57 New
    0
    Hello! Thank you very much for your support! Frankly, for the first time in my life I come across such an impenetrable opponent as Vlad 1965. wassat
  35. Arabist
    Arabist 12 September 2013 18: 59 New
    0
    Yes, do not be discouraged, there are enough of them and they can not be convinced. I think it’s not always worth wasting energy and emotions on such insignificance. Sincerely. hi
  36. Icestar777
    Icestar777 12 September 2013 19: 22 New
    -1
    And I'm not upset. And at the expense of insignificance is you in vain. A man is one hundred percent sure of his innocence, consistent in his errors, well, not many die-hard. He’s just a pessimist, and sure.
  37. smile
    smile 12 September 2013 20: 07 New
    0
    Icestar777
    Yes, always, please, since you did not express your respect to a very sane person.
    Arabist is right, your opponent is not unique ... the only thing he is quite rare - having received a serious rebuff, puts the offender in an emergency so as not to get even more (well, I judge by myself, I'm sorry) ... :)) )
    Whether or not to argue with them is your choice, since it is impossible to convince him of something .... but you can laugh at such people ... it unbalances them, and they begin to poison themselves with their own poison :)))
    Happy hunting! :)))
  38. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 11: 50 New
    +1
    Icestar777 SU
    in order for your arguments to have at least some power in breaking through my arguments and facts, they must correspond in the answers to the questions asked, and not in emotions.
    There are lots of emotions in VA, but no counterarguments.
    Learn and have fun tongue from intelligence fights.
  • fklj
    fklj 12 September 2013 16: 58 New
    0
    I see, hear and draw conclusions.

    So, we look at the same country differently. Pensioners with outstretched hands, drinking young people are positive for you?
    NO to me. A court buffoons (sorry), was enough for any ruler of Russia.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 12 September 2013 17: 17 New
      -1
      NOT positive. BUT.
      If you are talking about those pensioners who are on transitions, then they will be richer than us. And the youth is drunk, yes. But that's not all for some reason. For some reason, the part of young people who are not drunk, found something to do, sports, volunteering, study, etc. What prevents the drunken half from doing the same? Is the government to blame? Or maybe those who should have directed their children along the right path? Maybe stop looking for the guilty upstairs?
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 17: 36 New
        +2
        Icestar777 SU
        "What prevents the drunken half from doing the same? Is the power to blame? Or maybe those who should have directed their children along the right path? Maybe stop looking for the guilty ones upstairs?" - YOU seriously, or stupidity?
        WHO enacts and enforces laws that worsen the life of the population?
        Who stifles the country's agriculture at exorbitant rates of loans?
        Who in the country, which is not the last in terms of hydrocarbons, has set the price of fuel and lubricants higher than the world? In the USA, GALLON is 1,5 dollars, but this is almost 4 liters, and we have LITR_DOLLAR.
        Who reduced education from the best in the Soviet world to the poverty and ugliness of the school of the three corridors of the BOLON SYSTEM?
        At the last competitions of vocational school graduates, out of 54 places, RUSSIA-54 place is the result of whose?
        Who makes these decisions?
        The PEOPLE, or those who are above, quietly crowing among themselves in their birdhouse, sharing these or other resources for their loved ones?
        YOUTH-WHO, made it so that education is becoming less accessible, unprofessional and uncompetitive, aren't those at the top, in the form of the Minister of EDUCATION LIVANOV?
        And who put him to the post?
        Before attempting to engage in agitation, you at least prepared diligently, like a schoolgirl, for lessons, because the questions are sharp, and you have to answer them, there’s simply nothing, not that level of thinking, not that education and the wrong logic to argue with people who have had many years of service and an excellent education received in the best universities of the UNION.
      2. Arabist
        Arabist 12 September 2013 17: 39 New
        0
        Something all of your posts are a heavy form of swamp liberalism.
      3. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 17: 44 New
        0
        Nothing emanates from you at all except kvass-gas-misunderstanding.
        Please express your thoughts about what you disagree with, if you are not capable, leave your verbiage to yourself.
      4. Arabist
        Arabist 12 September 2013 17: 48 New
        0
        And you are a blatant hamlo. Or do you seriously believe that if you wipe your feet on others, they will happily lick your shoes?
      5. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 10: 51 New
        +1
        Arabist RU
        Be careful in the expressions, the depth of your mind, and at least some attempt to express your opinion, besides frank rudeness and off-scale stupidity, I did not see, but this is what you saw, you will not quite like it.
        The image of a puppy wagging its tail tenderly and "scary" growling at a slipper is allegorical, but in fact your image.
  • fklj
    fklj 12 September 2013 17: 48 New
    0
    Swamp? What a swamp? Liberalism? For 20 years, liberalism was the highest ideal, then it became an abusive word. Moreover, the “steering wheel” has the same faces. Don't you find it strange?
    I do not belong to the swamp fauna and to lackeys of power either. I consider myself a patriot of Russia.
    And you, Andrei, confuse sound criticism with betrayal.
  • Arabist
    Arabist 12 September 2013 17: 57 New
    +1
    Sound criticism is sound, because it should have 3 components — knowledge of the subject, good reasoning, its own proposal. Attacks on opponents in the style of “fermented patriotism” and “eyes of a blinker” are not included here. You will deny the fact that politics today is seriously different from the 90s? Or did the standard of living not increase?
  • fklj
    fklj 12 September 2013 19: 02 New
    0
    It all depends on what purpose you are “publishing” here. If you say: “Life has become good, life has become more fun” - your job, then I will not interfere.
    If you share your opinion, I answer:
    Quote: Arabist
    You will deny the fact that politics today is seriously different from the 90s? Or did the standard of living not increase?

    I am not an economist, I do not work at Rosstat, therefore, I can only judge by what I see as an ordinary citizen. I see the following: a reduction in production enterprises, the huge dependence of the budget on the export of raw materials, the predominance of trade (resale) orientation in small and medium-sized businesses, etc.
    You yourself are not blind.
    Standard of living? This is when the head - 200t.r. + ten employees of 15 tr = average salary of 31,8 tr ?
    Comparing with the 90s: the wrapper is more beautiful, the filling is the same. Better, of course, but for a simple, working person, ode x ....
  • Arabist
    Arabist 12 September 2013 19: 10 New
    -1
    Depends where you work. And in a sense, you're right, my work does not allow me to see everything in a black light. I’m not saying that there are no problems and we built a utopia, this is impossible. But to say that everything is bad is no better. I see that you understand this, unlike Vlad, and I will not give you any unpleasant advice. But if you want, I am set for discussion but only calm, without mutual insults and accusations. All the best.
  • fklj
    fklj 12 September 2013 19: 29 New
    +1
    As I said, from different points of view we look. Visit a small town with a closed city-forming enterprise. I often go to such places.
    There are positive moments in my opinion in the life of modern Russia, like spoons of honey in a tar barrel.
    For the discussion. But we are adults and we will not change our opinion
  • Arabist
    Arabist 12 September 2013 19: 39 New
    +1
    I traveled around the country and have been to such cities more than once. The difference between the beginning of the 2s and the beginning of the XNUMXnd decade is serious, although not as much as we would like. And about the opinion you are right, you should not start if you think about it.
  • Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 12: 07 New
    +1
    Arabist RU
    There is a good joke about a rebuttal example.
    The wise guy argued that the number 60 is divisible by all numbers.
    Check for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - everything is divided!
    Take randomly 10, 15, 20, 30 - everything is also divided. The statement is correct.
    Abram said, but try to divide by 33.
    Wise guy tried - it didn’t work out.
    And the wise guy then said - you give me these Jewish little things

    Respected. If there is a disproving example, then the statement is false.
    Unfortunately, wrong thinking often leads to disastrous consequences.
    Liberasts screamed - We will carry out Radical Market Reforms and all of us will perfectly heal.
    They conducted a PPP, and a big BYAK came out. Why? Because there was a refuting example
    Burkina Faso has a market economy, but they live on it.
    So compete in intelligence, with a similar self-LEARNING.
  • Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 10: 48 New
    0
    Arabist RU
    In what place did you show knowledge of the subject, good reasoning, your suggestions?
    So far, since yesterday, I’ve been reading only silly maxims from you, saying that the spelling is not the same, it’s far-fetched in my head, apparently as a rare combination of complacency and rudeness that you tried to turn to me.
    “Do you begin to deny the fact that politics today is seriously different from the 90s? Or did the standard of living not increase?” - Yes, ate from the level of the damned years, the reign of EBnon, 93-99, then rose from the level of complete immersion in the quagmire , on the level nose they got something like from that quagmire.
    Will you challenge?
    Then try to explain your optimism, for example, to the psychologist of the brigade, GP of the RF Ministry of Defense, from which she has a salary of 7000 r, to the driver, GP of the RF Ministry of Defense, whose salary, from 6740 to 7380, can you?
    Hospitals, even taking into account 1010, the salary is 9-12 thousand, is this how to embrace?
    Pensions are a medical worker, a highly qualified professional, experience of 35 years, a pension of -7500, how do you explain, taking into account, for a three-room apartment, the monthly fee for one person is 2450 rubles?
    What does a person live for?
    And this, the cleverest boor, is an indisputable fact that in budgetary institutions, salary at the poverty level concerns not only the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation but also others.
    We climbed out of the pit ... Yes, of course, we are looking at the offers on the labor market — a sales manager, a salary of 8 ooo r, a working day from 7 to 23, this is not fantasy, but the reality of small towns. So where did we come from?
    So be careful in expressions and “sound criticism” behind which the inappropriate kvass-gas-patriotism is visible.
  • Icestar777
    Icestar777 12 September 2013 18: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: Vlad 1965
    Who in the country, which is not the last in terms of hydrocarbons, has set the price of fuel and lubricants higher than the world? In the USA, GALLON is 1,5 dollars, but this is almost 4 liters, and we have LITR_DOLLAR.

    Something I did not notice that everyone would transfer to bicycles because of this. The number of four-wheeled pepelats on the streets only increases every day.
    Quote: Vlad 1965
    Who reduced education from the best in the Soviet world to the poverty and ugliness of the school of the three corridors of the BOLON SYSTEM?
    My mother-in-law works at school, so do not tell me about the horrors in this area.
    Quote: Vlad 1965
    YOUTH-WHO, made education so that it is becoming less accessible, unprofessional and uncompetitive

    I’m not spinning in elite circles, but at all the children are either studying or have already learned and work.
    In general, I repeat, you do not hear me. Spit saliva in righteous anger, torture me with authority
    Quote: Vlad 1965
    best universities of the UNION.
    to crush. I'm just trying to tell you that you should not exaggerate. I am not saying that everything is perfect in our country. I’m also trying to say that if everyone in their place will conscientiously do their work, then everything will be fine with us. There are really a lot of unscrupulous officials, but in order to remove them, you need to have those who can replace them.
  • Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 10: 32 New
    +1
    Icestar777 SU
    P1.-not an answer. My answer is a heap of Pepelians on the street a little higher.
    P2-opinion of your mother-in-law, on the mess in the SCHOOL and the quality of training, how is it different from mine-mess, simplification, low quality of knowledge?
    P3. To show you an example of a black vision of the situation-goats Denis RU, righteous anger is absolutely normal when you see how to teach students, the choice is the Vladikavkaz Medacademy, two groups for pennies all five years and those who themselves, guess three times who after arranged, attached to workplaces, an example of the second, SSU Stavropol, can you describe how the training and practice are organized there? I’d better not be upset, but I note that for such a practice, in the Union, the rector would not be very sweet, how and for training.
    P4. To crush you, I in no way try.
    Just on the borders of Black and White, you sometimes float in the fog of GRAY, and this, to some extent, prevents you from seeing the situation OBJECTIVELY.
    OFFICIALS, appoints, teaches and controls the AUTHORITY, if the Authority is not able to ensure the quality work of officials, then what kind of AUTHORITY is this?
    It is 1,5 times more to procreate managers than in the Union, and the quality of officials-managers is much worse, this is called -IMITATION of activity, and if someone imitates, mimics the person performing his duties, then in fact the mess only grows.
    An example? Yes please, from KRYMSK-where the bureaucrats knowing what could happen, were the first to flush, having done nothing for the city in advance.
    They were punished, but it wasn’t any easier; earlier they were considered exemplary ... “drones”.
    Far East there how to evaluate the activities of officials of all ranks? Climate anomaly?
    And what did not happen before, dams and other hydraulic structures, it was not necessary to update and maintain?
    And note, once again the President of the country personally intervenes in the process, so that the imitators, at least 30% start to do something, you are sure that Putin will be enough for everyone and everything, to manually eliminate the idiocy of imitators from officials, I’m not sure .
    It is necessary to have those with whom to replace, so do something for this, but this is not there and somehow it is not foreseen on the horizon, the question immediately arises - WHY, who is interfering, what is preventing us from taking the necessary measures to correct the situation? The system of liberal-monetarism is when -Bablo solves everything, it turns out not all and not always.
    So I absolutely do not exaggerate the colors, the TRUTH is such, the bitter taste and many do not like it, unlike the embarrassed LIE and the "truth" painted by Paul
  • lucidlook
    lucidlook 13 September 2013 14: 05 New
    +1
    Natalya, the authorities, of course, are not to blame for the fact that a single concrete person picks up a bottle instead of a book. It is not she who makes a person make this or that decision, with a whip she is not standing above him.

    However, if we compare the availability of the same alcohol in the form of stalls, tents, drink shops, etc., and the availability of literature in the form of libraries, bookstores, etc., if we compare prices here and there, if we compare the quantity and quality of social advertising and everything, which forms the preconditions for the very decision in favor of the bottle (including, first of all, the attitude in society), then here, excuse me, the authorities will not succeed in eliminating themselves. Or the authorities take part in the formation of this field, or alcohol, drug addiction and other debauchery reigns there.

    What will be the result? Look at least an article on the health of society and families: "With cells, and with society"
    http://topwar.ru/32960-kak-s-yacheykami-tak-i-s-obschestvom.html
    How do you like the statistics of divorces?

    And, of course, it’s very sad to see the same thing again - like something good, it’s Putin, well done again, and if you can't, you’re to blame yourself and “Maybe stop looking for the guilty upstairs?”
  • Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 12 September 2013 12: 56 New
    +5
    I support Putin, I am positive I will vote only for him !
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 12 September 2013 12: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Silkway0026
      I support Putin, I am positive, I will vote only for him!

      hi
  • GAYDUK5
    GAYDUK5 12 September 2013 13: 12 New
    +6
    Criminal enemy. Saudi Arabia sent almost 1300 prisoners sentenced to death to Syria to fight against Assad’s troops. According to Vesti with reference to USA Today, in April, the Saudi Arabian Foreign Ministry offered 1239 death row inmates a pardon and a monthly cash payment to their families in exchange for participating in hostilities in Syria.

    These prisoners include citizens of Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Kuwait and Yemen, previously sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia for murder, rape and drug trafficking.

    That's who absolutely ah-ate, lawless.
    But it was once that Khrushchev told Nixon about the “Kuzkin Mother”, and they translated that the Russians have the “Tsar Bomb”. Health to you GDP.
  • erased
    erased 12 September 2013 13: 18 New
    +2
    I wonder what Obama and his gang will come up with? But they’ll come up with something in person. They are not used to retreating and losing even in such a game.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 12 September 2013 13: 31 New
      0
      Quote: erased
      . They are not used to retreating and losing even in such a game.

      I will have to learn very urgently))
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 15: 33 New
      +5
      Quote: erased
      I wonder what Obama and his gang will come up with? But they’ll come up with something in person. They are not used to retreating and losing even in such a game.


      That's for sure ...
      These scammers have seven aces up their sleeves ... And a brick in reserve.
  • pahom54
    pahom54 12 September 2013 13: 21 New
    +1
    I quote: "... The initiative can be seen primarily as a gesture of goodwill on the part of Moscow and Damascus, but at the same time it may well be part of a broader strategy that should knock the ground out from under Washington’s and its French’s, Saudi and Qatari allies ....
    ... Now the advantage is clearly on the side of the Kremlin, while the White House and the Champs Elysees are in a difficult situation. "
    Whatever you say, it’s nice that our potential friends-enemies-partners recognize the fact that today in the international arena there is not only no counterbalance, it is, but the weight of Russia is growing stronger every day. Let them now say that Putin lingered in power - after all, a person is studying, gaining experience (albeit by stuffing bumps), and, most importantly, he is happy for Russia.
    It’s nice when they reckon with my - and ours - country, although they grind their teeth with anger. Love, brothers, love !!!
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 12 September 2013 14: 27 New
    +1
    World Gendarme - The United States wants to single-handedly rule the world. At its discretion, execute and pardon, spitting on international laws that have developed after the 2-th World War. But it doesn’t work out. The voice of Russia in the international arena sounds louder and more weighty. Tso that the overseas chaos will have to restrain his ardor.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 12 September 2013 14: 29 New
      +1
      And all thanks to whom?)))))
  • chushoj
    chushoj 12 September 2013 14: 58 New
    +3
    This is again a subtle provocation. Belarus has already experienced this. Believe it or not. The main task of the talkers is to create some kind of party, so that their opinion is taken into account. And then get into the ruling party and praise the boss until he runs out of money.
    Gross domestic product is really doing its job bit by bit.
    Transfer to the American people through a browser.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-
    syria.html? _r = 0
    This is a likeness in Russian
    http://oko-planet.su/first/209690-obraschenie-v-putina-k-amerikanskomu-narodu.ht
    ml
    Now every Orthodox republic is eliminating its mistakes. Only after that joint actions are possible. Great Russia consists of each of you. What is going on in Russia’s heads now?
    - Do the repair, you do not need to clean the street. This is the work of the Uzbeks
    - no need to go to the factory
    etc. You do not see in this the future collapse of Russia? If you are so proud of Putin, then help him.
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 15: 24 New
      +2
      chushoj
      “Do you not see the future collapse of Russia in this? If you are so proud of Putin, then help him.” potential?
      Golikova-Madame Arbidol in vernacular, bam, the Accounts Chamber ... And this despite the fact that with her direct participation, the reform of medicine is comparable to her pogrom? And in the past, sitting in the Ministry of Finance, she was so worried about, for example, military personnel the military, which stated “the payment of the military, to the soldier and the NS, should be different, the NS receives less” —this understanding is absolutely not in the topic of a citizen who does not realize that without a BATTLE ORDER drawn up by the NS with other Deputies, signed by the Commander, no soldier the line will not do it, because it will not know where and why it should go and how, what task, where to eat, b \ n, get fuel and lubricants, and in general do this task?
      To these words, the witness himself, in 2003, she milled the rubbish at a meeting at the headquarters of the North Caucasus Military District.
      After, Serdyukov, removed the CT of MO ISAKOV, and this unsinkable tablet continues to carry nonsense?
      And now, this matron, having the same convinced liberalist hubby, will you defend the interests of the country (your interests, more precisely), do you believe that?
      I somehow do not believe in such a development of the situation.
      1. chushoj
        chushoj 12 September 2013 21: 53 New
        +1
        I explain.
        You will pay attention to the title of the article and the author.
        After such an appeal about raising the image of the country, Lukashenko paid a lot of money to the English lords to get involved in the image of the country before the World Cup. Now it has ended with the collapse of production and the laughter of the world community. We collected all the data about each inhabitant and nothing more.
        No need to raise any image !!! Need to work. Do not get fooled by this nonsense. Do not blame other Slavs. Use their experience.
        1. Vlad 1965
          Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 11: 45 New
          0
          chushoj
          The collapse of production? How is this confirmed?
          The image of the country, Aglitz lords, but in more detail, without gossip, about Berezovsky?
  • ioann1
    ioann1 12 September 2013 15: 47 New
    +3

    God bless Russia!
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 16: 25 New
      +4
      ioann1
      Yes, in the old people, the old Soviet school and fantastic performance, for the sake of the MOTHERLAND, we all still live.
      At the same time, the mass of all rubbish spits - in the Great Past ...
      All these Great Elders worked for the COUNTRY, for the sake of its Power.
      They didn’t steal, didn’t drink, didn’t steal and grub money offshore, they BUILD THE POWER.
      Who will replace them ??
      Serdyukovs with Vasilyevs, Goliks with Christians? Karimovs and Baumgartens? Abramovichs and Vekselbergs ??
      Is it now a reason for pride ??
      If this, these, someone is "pride" then for me these nouveau riche, the curse and shame of MY COUNTRY.
      The glory to the Great gunsmith of the country of the TIPS, who, even in their considerable years, did, is doing what no one in the world can do.
      1. ioann1
        ioann1 12 September 2013 16: 39 New
        +6
        These nouveau riche have nothing to do with Russia, they are now there, and tomorrow they will leave the arena. The people will not long remember their dirty deeds. But Russia was, is and will be! We must think about the future of the country, about the young generation, take care of it and always remember God!
        1. Icestar777
          Icestar777 12 September 2013 16: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: ioann1
          We must think about the future of the country, about the young generation, take care of it and always remember God!

          And educate in the spirit of patriotism and pride in their country.
        2. Vlad 1965
          Vlad 1965 12 September 2013 17: 41 New
          +3
          ioann1
          Right.
          But for this it stands as an example, to educate young people to exhibit such as SHIPUNOV, SHAMANOV, and not any voiceless choristers and peuns like alla Pugacheva (now) Glkin and Moiseev.
          Not the Karimovs and PROkhorovs, but those guys who were not for fear, but for conscience, did and do their job, sometimes giving their lives, so that the country would not slide into the chaos of banditry.
          RUSSIA, yes it is and will be, another question is what it will be.
          And tired of repeating the liberal-monetary path, the road to a standstill, nowhere, worse in the abyss of failure into oblivion.
          And the last, believe, believe, your business, religiosity is a free business and the choice of an adult, to impose a religion in a secular state is NOT ALLOWED.
          1. Icestar777
            Icestar777 12 September 2013 18: 20 New
            -1
            And where did you get the idea that someone personally imposes something on you?
            1. Vlad 1965
              Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 10: 12 New
              0
              We need to think about the future of the country, about the young generation, take care of it and always remember God! -YU, if you wish, believe, like the author of this comment, but too often everywhere, to the place and out of place, mentioning God will be admitted.
              This is not what the country needs.
              The church in the country, separated from the secular country of our country, I hope this will remain.
              And the choice of religious beliefs, views, choice of religion is the work of every adult who is aware of his actions, unless this choice is in favor of radical, terrorist sects in fact, which should immediately be suppressed in their activities, and the carriers of radicalism should bear responsibility for the deed ..
  • drewlanin
    drewlanin 12 September 2013 18: 13 New
    +4
    in Syria, the strategic interests of gas supplies to Europe are affected those intentions that the monarchies of the Arab countries have undermined the flow of money to Russia through the sale of gas is an indisputable fact, of course there are many more factors, both geopolitical and others, but in my opinion this is the most important nobody for Libya harnessed it and didn’t feel much excitement for Iraq, but for Syria it’s quite another matter simply because they want to stretch a gas pipeline to Europe through its territory and here the dependence on deliveries from Russia will be significantly reduced !!!
  • denn
    denn 12 September 2013 18: 48 New
    +2
    In fact, it turns out that ... In foreign policy, the president has more freedom to pursue a national policy. What can not be said about domestic politics. We, the Russians, have to cleanse our country from foreign agents in power, liberoids and other evil spirits with a smooth exit to popular referenda under Russian law, the constitution, etc.

    On the topic ... Patriotic communities begin to carry out activities aimed in this direction. September 21, NCD holds a march. Please take this into account if you share these views, are ready to participate, etc.
  • dizelniy
    dizelniy 12 September 2013 19: 18 New
    0
    Quote: Deniska999
    And our army is rather weak for such a territory. Especially aviation, missile defense, air defense. Nuclear warheads alone do not war. Do you want - minus, but this is basically true.

    And for the minuses, the salary will be reduced? Opinion is an opinion.
    1. Wolf3d
      Wolf3d 12 September 2013 20: 21 New
      +2
      How can you tell you ..... On the Internet you can wave your saber, but in fact be weakling weak-willed. And you can wait for loading in the Black Sea region to perform combat missions. And be silent. For an order is an order. And it must be done. Of course, we’ll get into a mess ... But I (like other participants in this site) were intrigued by the calm face of the president when discussing problems in Syria. Yesterday I made sure that the strategists had not died yet :) Not all the aces are shown.
  • goats denis
    goats denis 12 September 2013 21: 25 New
    -3
    What is a great power? As they were the upper volta with nuclear weapons, they remained, only turned into a lossoto with nuclear weapons. As for Syria, the United States will strike, apparently there are some secret negotiations, some preparation, but the die is cast and Carthage must be destroyed. If ours will turn up we will receive the full program.
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 12 September 2013 21: 27 New
      +1
      Russia is a great power, if you did not know.
      1. goats denis
        goats denis 12 September 2013 21: 34 New
        +1
        What is a great power? I agree with the territory, in the economy, in the military field, in the technological, financial, industrial spheres, We do not even have allies.
        1. Arabist
          Arabist 12 September 2013 21: 38 New
          +2
          The financial-5 economy of the world, in the military-2 power of the army in the world and our weapons have received international recognition. How many countries in the world fly into space? Has mastered rocket science like ours? Submarines? We have never had (real) allies like the states.
          1. goats denis
            goats denis 12 September 2013 21: 54 New
            -1
            If so, then why is it not our turn to live and work scientists, engineers, actors, skilled workers from Europe. (From the CIS does not count). In the military, when the teachings are shown in the news, all the equipment is from the USSR. Missiles are also from the USSR, but they began to fall. Submarines are also from the USSR. We just think that a great power recalling long-standing victories, achievements and we were great, but now it’s just
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 12 September 2013 22: 06 New
              +1
              We have our own scientists, engineers and actors. All equipment from the USSR? MLRS Tornado-Russia, su-35, su-39, ka-52, rocket-yars, poplar-m, mace. submarines borey, fret. Missiles also fell during the Union. Learn the materiel.
          2. Icestar777
            Icestar777 12 September 2013 21: 59 New
            -1
            It seems that we have another pessimist who did not believe in his country.
            1. smile
              smile 12 September 2013 22: 46 New
              0
              Icestar777
              No-no-no - this is not a pessimist. This is such a special breed of people - from that part of the most useless tiligenia that in the 19th century suffered from Unwashed Russia. which is a country of slaves. the land of gentlemen .... their reincarnation destroyed the USSR (certainly not without outside help), the second generation is trying to finish off Russia, which is slowly recovering from the 90s ... the new generation is marsh.
              Characteristic features that are easily determined:
              1. An individual is always dissatisfied with everyone. Often they have a bad time with women in view of the fact that what a normal woman will endure such a bore.
              2. The individual believes that everyone owes her, especially the state, although the bulk of the population hates the USSR fiercely and senselessly, despite the fact that at that time the state really gave everything, and in abundance. Individual varieties with a lost genotype. however, they do not share this conviction of their fellow tribesmen.
              3. Despite some ability to human speech, they can communicate either with a meager set of memorized slogans, the meaning of which is not always understood and can never be convincingly substantiated. The reason for this is the total lack of mind. An anomalous individual with developed thinking evolves to the level of a person and does not want to have anything in common with his former flock.
              They communicate with each other interjections and SMSkami, find each other by smell. Pleasure can be experienced only by pouring mud on their homeland .... although they have nothing but dirt ...
              4 Russia is called "this country." they constantly declare their desire to migrate to the west (dump them from this country), but they don’t dump them because, in view of their worthlessness, nobody in the West needs them.

              Here is such a zoological curiosity. Here they are sometimes called "all-companions." sorry for my french. :)))
              1. Icestar777
                Icestar777 12 September 2013 22: 54 New
                +1
                Thank you))) You voiced the fact that I did not dare.
                1. smile
                  smile 13 September 2013 01: 08 New
                  0
                  Icestar777
                  It's my pleasure. :))) And do not be shy, such individuals, not getting a rebuff impudent. Moreover, Russian women "will stop the elephant for a gallop and tear off the trunk" ... :)))) but not elephants, but some .... I won’t tell who, otherwise the moderators will beat ... :)) ) Look below, comrade Kozlov Denis, a vivid illustration of the individual described by me above ... :)))
              2. goats denis
                goats denis 12 September 2013 23: 08 New
                -2
                Mud, stink and cockroaches
                and the master whip above everyone
                This is what many boobies call their Great Homeland.
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 13 September 2013 00: 48 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Denis Goats
                  This is what many boobies call their Great Homeland.

                  What is your last name?
                  Ahhh ...
                  Nothing, nothing ... happens ... laughing
                2. Icestar777
                  Icestar777 13 September 2013 01: 12 New
                  +2
                  Chronic case! You need to be treated Dania ...
                3. smile
                  smile 13 September 2013 01: 14 New
                  +1
                  goats denis
                  Mr. Kozlov, actually, if you believe that you have reliably described the reality surrounding you, I can say for sure that you live in a pet pen. I earnestly ask - get over at least to the zoo, you will see the city from behind bars, you will understand that Russia is different. They will definitely take you there, speaking something ... :)))
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 13 September 2013 01: 21 New
                    +5
                    Quote: smile
                    you will understand that Russia is different. They’ll definitely take you there,

                    Too late, smile!
                    This "clinic" is indistinguishable ... wassat
      2. rsnv
        rsnv 12 September 2013 22: 01 New
        +2
        I’ll clarify - “Russia is a great energy power” - this definition of the Russian Federation was given in the middle of the “fat” 2000s by Vladimir Putin. If gas and oil prices fall, there will be nothing left of this greatness except the presence of nuclear weapons created by 90% during the Soviet era, and nothing will remain from it (nuclear weapons), since the pace of decommissioning of nuclear weapons produced during USSR, at times exceed the supply of nuclear weapons produced by the Russian Federation.
        1. Arabist
          Arabist 12 September 2013 22: 11 New
          +2
          And what, a share in Russia's GDP of 100% of oil and gas revenues?
          1. rsnv
            rsnv 12 September 2013 22: 27 New
            0
            No, not 100%, only 36%. Do you think this is not enough? But the share of raw materials in Russian exports is 93,3% (2011).
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 12 September 2013 22: 36 New
              0
              In 2012, 85.8% of raw materials were already exported. Progress right? What about the USA?
              1. rsnv
                rsnv 12 September 2013 22: 40 New
                0
                In 2012, commodity prices fell slightly, and so the percentage fell. In 2012, China exported children’s toys for an amount comparable to the Russian export of raw materials. You can still make toys, but there can be problems with irreplaceable natural resources.
                1. Russ69
                  Russ69 12 September 2013 23: 09 New
                  +1
                  Quote: rsnv
                  China has exported children’s toys for an amount comparable to the Russian export of raw materials.
                  Are you ready to work like the Chinese for 150 bucks, 10 hours a day and without any smoke breaks?
        2. smile
          smile 12 September 2013 22: 51 New
          +1
          rsnv
          When the USSR collapsed, energy prices were about the same as when Pu started pulling Russia out of the ditch. Despite the fact that in the first case, the state owned everything. And in the second case, Pu came to power. when everything was already stolen. But he kept the country from collapse. So don’t expect your dreams to come true.
          1. Icestar777
            Icestar777 12 September 2013 23: 01 New
            +1
            I don’t understand why some people don’t see obvious things?
          2. rsnv
            rsnv 12 September 2013 23: 15 New
            -1
            Quote: smile
            When the USSR collapsed, energy prices were about the same as when Pu started pulling Russia out of the ditch.

            For reference, in 1991 a barrel of oil cost about $ 20, i.e. four times less than the average price of this barrel during the reign of the great Pu.

            Quote: smile
            Despite the fact that in the first case, the state owned everything.

            Namely, the Soviet Union, at a much lower oil price, carried a greater social burden, but the Russian Federation did not.

            Quote: smile
            And in the second case, Pu came to power. when everything was already stolen.

            Very interesting statement. And with whom and what was plundered by Serdyukov and others like him, can you tell?

            Quote: smile
            But he kept the country from collapse.

            Yes, I kept it, thanks. Here are just the reasons that could lead to the collapse of the Russian Federation in the near future, not eliminated, but in some ways strengthened.

            Quote: smile
            So don’t expect your dreams to come true.

            Why are you talking about this?
            1. smile
              smile 13 September 2013 00: 57 New
              +1
              rsnv
              1. Before giving out certificates, find out the prices in '91 and compare it with 2000. The person who gives the certificates looks ridiculous. trying to distort the cards, knowing that it is impossible to hide.
              2. When you talk about social workload, be aware first. that all state revenues by 2000 were in the hands of the invaders. Putin has only taxes left. And I repeat, no need to lie about the difference in oil prices at times - with the same oil price, the Union was destroyed, and Russia began to get out .... and this is with the destroyed national economy.
              3. And corruption and theft in the 90s was much more intense than under Pu - think with your head - almost the entire national economy was privatized and went into private hands. So, the current (completely impracticable) level of corruption is only equal to the average European level. But it is many times lower. than in the 90s.
              4. I am very glad that you are grateful to Pu for preventing the collapse of the country. But your statement that he reinforced the reasons for the collapse .... looks. at least controversial ... as if you really want to blame him. only you don’t know what .... :))) What do you think, why would he need it?

              And I said the last phrase because usually those who scream about pro-polymer ... are passionately hoping for a "regime collapse." not understanding that if they manage to overwhelm the regime and any opposition party seizes power, this will be the last breath of Russia, in the Union we have already gone through it. If you are not like that. I sincerely wish you to learn how to analyze the situation.
              1. rsnv
                rsnv 14 September 2013 16: 02 New
                0
                Smile, your "arguments" cause only a sarcastic grin - a kind of wry smile, because they represent a retelling of wretched fables from a long-worn agitation plate of the Party of Rogues and Thieves (ПЖиВ), of which you are a mercenary or disinterested agitator (ПЖиВ).
  • rsnv
    rsnv 12 September 2013 22: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: Arabist
    The financial-5 economy of the world, in the military-2 power of the army in the world and our weapons have received international recognition.

    At the expense of the 5th economy of the world. If we throw away the share of the fuel and energy complex supplying raw materials (irreplaceable natural resources) abroad, then the remaining economy of the Russian Federation (industry, transport, ...) will not be included in the top ten. Moreover, the share of engineering in the Russian economy is decreasing.
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 12 September 2013 22: 18 New
      +2
      And in the states a lot of industry left? 80% of the US economy is services and consumption in the broad sense of the word.
      1. rsnv
        rsnv 12 September 2013 22: 22 New
        0
        Even what they have left exceeds what we have (excluding the fuel and energy complex) several times.
        1. Arabist
          Arabist 12 September 2013 22: 24 New
          0
          Provide evidence.
          1. rsnv
            rsnv 12 September 2013 22: 36 New
            +2
            I'm not a defendant in a US economy trial. And so, the evidence is full. The simplest thing is your personal computer, the main income of the cost of which is received by the US economy, even if its filling was not made in the states, you should not forget about the software, although you may have it unlicensed. I do not like the United States, but I note that more than 80% of the patents in the field of microelectronics and software belong to the United States and generate income significantly exceeding what the Russian Federation receives from primitive trade in raw materials.
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 12 September 2013 22: 40 New
              0
              Even if not in the states? Yes, for a long time not in the states and pirated software. And you can’t prove that US electronics brings more profit than oil and gas revenues, then you should not write about it.
              1. rsnv
                rsnv 12 September 2013 22: 59 New
                +3
                What should I write and how, I will figure it out without your original advice. If you are interested in absolute numbers, you can see them on the Internet. In short, the entire export of the Russian Federation in 2012 is worth approximately $ 525 billion (86% - as you indicated above, this is raw materials, totaling $ 451,5 billion for raw materials). In 2012, the US microelectronic industry sold only chips worth more than $ 190 billion. Intel Corporation, the world's largest chip maker, had sales of $ 49,3 billion. Note that these are only microchips.
          2. goats denis
            goats denis 12 September 2013 22: 44 New
            0
            What about new technology, engineering, huh? You mentioned the Mace-ridiculed. What you called is probably in the troops, but this is so few that it’s better not to say. We produce almost nothing, only oil and gas. We have no breakthrough technologies, the standard of living is small. But there is oil, territory and arrogance.
  • kargrom
    kargrom 12 September 2013 22: 38 New
    +2
    Five years ago, I remember very well how I watched the Munich conference, how my eyes became wet with pride in my homeland ... Today I am not ashamed that I am Russian!
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 12 September 2013 23: 01 New
    +1
    It's like that.
    BUT!
    When will this really begin to happen in Russia itself?
    AND FURTHER!
    When will there come a succession of a policy that is really useful for RUSSIA, both foreign (which is at least somehow dancing) and domestic (which will not hatch in any way)?
  • rsnv
    rsnv 12 September 2013 23: 29 New
    0
    Quote: Russ69
    Quote: rsnv
    China has exported children’s toys for an amount comparable to the Russian export of raw materials.
    Are you ready to work like the Chinese for 150 bucks, 10 hours a day and without any smoke breaks?


    For those who make toys, I will not say, but in the serious industry of China (defense industry, engineering, instrumentation, ..., i.e. not raw materials), the average salary of skilled workers and engineers exceeds (or equals) the average salary of these categories of workers in the Russian Federation, the working day is 9 hours, there is a lunch break and breaks. The salary of the faculty in higher technical educational institutions of the PRC significantly exceeds the salary of their colleagues from technical colleges of the Russian Federation.
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 13 September 2013 01: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: rsnv
      For those who make toys, I will not say, but in the serious industry of China (defense industry, engineering, instrumentation, ..., i.e. not raw materials), the average salary of skilled workers and engineers exceeds (or equals) the average salary of these categories of workers in the Russian Federation, the working day is 9 hours, there is a lunch break and breaks. The salary of the faculty in higher technical educational institutions of the PRC significantly exceeds the salary of their colleagues from technical colleges of the Russian Federation.

      Of course, the level of salaries there is different. But here the main consumer goods, which the whole world is littered with, is precisely based on cheap labor. The same Athos, iPads collect for a salary of 170 bucks. Netak a long time ago at such a plant the rebellion was not big just about this.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 13 September 2013 01: 30 New
        +5
        Quote: Russ69
        Of course, the level of salaries there is different. But here the main consumer goods, which the whole world is littered with, is precisely based on cheap labor. The same Athos, iPads collect for a salary in 170 bucks.

        Not only is the Chinese economy "overheated", today Chinese workers in the production of world brands, as well as in the auto industry, are constantly looking for ways to increase their own salaries. The entire supply of cheap labor from poor rural areas, ready to work "for a cup of rice", is selected. Chinese products (serious) are approaching the upper limit of price / quality.
        "Nothing is eternal under the Moon". Chinese goods on the foreign market follow the “Korean” way.
  • Jager
    Jager 13 September 2013 00: 45 New
    +1
    The Russian Federation has made itself known, and here the “fermented” hysteria has begun))) It's funny, brothers. What year is the war going on? Third? And only now is something being done to resolve the issue. I remember that in the 56th, the USSR threatened to evaporate Israel if the attack on Egypt continued. And all at once obeyed and shut up. And no one dared to utter a word, including the USA. And here with great difficulty at least something was done. It’s not worth relaxing, this is just the beginning of the information and political battle. Although, of course, after so many years it’s nice to see the resurrection of Russia in the world political arena. Still, the Baltic States should remind its true place))) Well, with Ukraine, cease to sort things out, go to a union state. Oh, dreams ...
  • Icestar777
    Icestar777 13 September 2013 01: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: Jager
    The Russian Federation has made itself known, and here the “fermented” hysteria has begun))) It's funny, brothers. What year is the war going on? Third? And only now is something being done to resolve the issue.

    Quote: Jager
    . And here with great difficulty at least something was done

    Haste is only relevant when catching fleas. But in politics, a spoken word or an initiative put forward is very fraught. The fact that, in your opinion, “just now” and “with great difficulty” did, is done and said at the most opportune moment, this has produced such a stormy effect.
  • Icestar777
    Icestar777 13 September 2013 01: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: Jager
    RF declared itself and then the “leavened” began to hysteria)))

    And this is not a hysteria, it is a legitimate pride.
  • KononAV
    KononAV 13 September 2013 06: 31 New
    0
    Let everyone stick out.
  • Icestar777
    Icestar777 13 September 2013 11: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Vlad 1965
    P2-opinion of your mother-in-law, on the mess in the SCHOOL and the quality of training, how is it different from mine-mess, simplification, low quality of knowledge?
    P3. To show you an example of a black vision of the situation-goats Denis RU, righteous anger is absolutely normal when you see how to teach students, the choice is the Vladikavkaz Medacademy, two groups for pennies all five years and those who themselves, guess three times who after arranged, attached to workplaces, an example of the second, SSU Stavropol, can you describe how the training and practice are organized there? I’d better not be upset, but I note that for such a practice, in the Union, the rector would not be very sweet, how and for training.

    The opinion of my mother-in-law is fundamentally different from yours. I told her the essence of our disagreements on the issue of education. She thinks you're wrong. According to her, verified information, all graduates of her school, and there are 51 of them. This year, without problems, they entered the universities of our region. Regarding Vladikavkaz and Stavropol. I know more about these cities than yours and to give as an example regions like these at least is not fair.
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 11: 42 New
      0
      Icestar777 SU
      “Regarding Vladikavkaz and Stavropol. I know more about these cities about yours and cite regions like these as
      to a minimum, it’s not fair. "- But in more detail, what do you know about these regions? Will you, the people living here, tell tales that everything is not as I wrote?
      Your mother-in-law disagrees, disagrees, so what?
      But the mother-in-law of my godfather and his wife, hereditary teachers, even very much agree with me, would you question their opinion?
      1. Icestar777
        Icestar777 13 September 2013 13: 40 New
        0
        I was born in Vladikavkaz and lived there all my conscious life, my brother lives in Stavropol. Do you know why our argument with you is essentially meaningless? You see and perceive everything with a minus sign, you are looking for flaws, because only they are of interest to you. And in everything I try to find positive aspects in people as well, and I find them. You and I have different polarities. Regarding the fact that I supposedly do propaganda, your will, you can think of anything. If the desire of an adult thinking person to voice his thoughts, his vision and perception of what is happening is called propaganda, well, then yes, I propagate. On this, let me bow to you and wish you good luck in your difficult business.
        PS: I DIDN'T DRINK THE ARGUMENTS, I JUST DO NOT SEE MEANING TO CONTINUE THIS DISPUTE.
      2. Arabist
        Arabist 13 September 2013 17: 15 New
        0
        If you see a fool in me, then in you I see a standard cattle which I have never met in my life. You don’t even have a spinal cord. All the bad. And you still called me a jackal? Look in the mirror.
  • Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 14 September 2013 10: 53 New
    0
    The fall of Syria is a new strengthening of the States, serious economic and political losses for Russia! The consequences of this loss for the Russian Federation are simply unpredictable!
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 25 September 2013 16: 36 New
    0
    I am very happy for the Russian leader, who has already largely returned the importance of the Russian Federation as a world heavyweight in diplomacy! In Ukraine, unfortunately, in the sense of the president and others, we have nothing to boast of. no