Military Review

Who invented Ukraine

314
Who invented UkraineOtto von Bismarck:
“The power of Russia can be undermined only by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, set off two parts of a single nation and watch how brother will kill his brother. To do this, you only need to find and cultivate traitors among the national elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”


Prince Otto von Bismarck, drafted by King Wilhelm I for the post of minister-president of Prussia in 1862, later received 9 years of almost unlimited power as imperial chancellor. But long before that, from 1859 to 1862, von Bismarck was the German ambassador to Russia, so he knew the Russians well and, being a talented person, he understood what the strength of the Russians was and what their weakness was. Bismarck also understood that weapons the Russians could not be defeated, and therefore, when planning the strategy of Germany, the Chancellor devoted a lot of effort to an ideological war.

In fact, it was he, Otto von Bismarck, who was behind the idea of ​​creating Ukraine and recognized that the term “Ukraine” impressed him greatly. On the maps of Bismarck, Ukraine stretched from Saratov and Volgograd in the northeast to Makhachkala in the south. The Ukrainization program was launched by Austria-Hungary at the end of the 19th century, and at the heart of this lay the re-identification of the Little Russians and the Galician Ruthenians into the so-called “Ukrainians”.

By the way, neither the "moderate" Russophobe Taras Shevchenko, nor the "terry" Lesya Ukrainka have such terms as "Ukrainian", "Ukrainian nation", but there are Slavs, Little Russians, and Ruthenians. But von Bismarck’s plans began to be implemented and, according to the 1908 census of the year, Ukrainians were already called up to 1% of the inhabitants of south-west Russia. In Germany, it was “scientifically proven” that the Russians are not Slavs or even Aryans (although the tribes from which the Germans and Slavs came out are called Slavic-Germanic tribes), but representatives of a certain Mongolian-Finnish tribe, “mankruts”. In 1898, in Germany, the idea was launched of creating a “separate Ukrainian nation” within the autonomy of Austria-Hungary.

Instead of the concepts “Rus” and “Ruski”, the terms “Ukraine”, “Ukrainian” etc. were replicated in the Vienna-controlled press. In the memoirs of General Hoffmann in 1926, you can read: “The creation of Ukraine is not the result of the initiative of the Russian people, but there is the result of my intelligence. "

But the opinion of the French consul Emile Eno (1918): “Ukraine has never had its stories and national distinctiveness. It was created by the Germans. Pro-German Skoropadsky government should be eliminated. " The French side, an ally of the Russians in the 1 World War I, is easy to understand because the so-called Ukrainian People’s Republic (UNR) has actually become the service of the host, Germany, since the creation of the Germans with food and industrial raw materials, as well as a place of deployment armed forces of Germany and Austria-Hungary.

“The power of Russia,” wrote Bismarck, “can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, to poison the two parts of a single nation and watch how a brother will kill a brother.” To do this, you only need to find and cultivate traitors among the national elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”

Von Bismarck was in charge of his German people and planned Ukraine (the outskirts) as a buffer territory, the fences of the lands of Austria-Hungary and Germany from Russia, since "the Russian Prussians were always beaten," although it was necessary to focus on it - they were not the first to get involved.

That is why the Ukrainian language, artificially created on the basis of Russian, Polish, Hungarian and several other languages, turned out to be so “harmonious”. So it was intended.

In general, the notorious “Dulles plan” was initiated by Otto von Bismarck, although even in his time there was nothing fundamentally new here: to break a tribe (family, people) into districts, to weaken them, to weaken them in every way, to enslave ...
Originator:
http://politikus.ru/articles/6330-kto-pridumal-ukrainu.html
314 comments
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  1. My address
    My address 14 September 2013 08: 30 New
    42
    Great article.
    And yesterday's about Opanas seemed to be paid for by Bismarck.
    And it is not necessary about the theft of our gas in the 90-x, about Little Russia, about the dumping of metallurgy and mechanical engineering (which rot our industries) and so on. I know about this and much more. But why do people?
    1. Sibiryak
      Sibiryak 14 September 2013 08: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: My address
      Great article.

      Everything new is well forgotten old! I think soon the counterarguments about freedom from the mind will begin to come up again, it will be very interesting to listen to new trends in this area.
      1. My address
        My address 14 September 2013 08: 59 New
        +2
        Sorry, Valery, did not understand.
        Arguments to justify stupidity, or counter arguments about the need to think with your head?
        1. Sibiryak
          Sibiryak 14 September 2013 09: 20 New
          11
          Quote: My address
          Arguments to justify stupidity, or counter arguments about the need to think with your head?

          About non-fallowing, about it is not clear what and why freedom and all that blah ... blah ... blah wassat
        2. ars_pro
          ars_pro 15 September 2013 01: 04 New
          +4
          ... Russia was not up to the conversation, even the 90s, then Ukraine could develop, and really could achieve decisive results, they are undeniably, a matter of measure, but for Ukraine it is better not to measure now ... with respect to Russia and the West ...
      2. seller trucks
        seller trucks 14 September 2013 09: 37 New
        11
        Quote: Sibiryak
        Everything new is well forgotten old!


        article, put (+) but the topic is not disclosed by the author, affected superficially. Firstly, Mova is not mentioned, as one of the basic antipodes of the Russian language, secondly, the anti-history of Ukrainians with its 140 000 period, the construction of the Egyptian pyramids and the invention of the wheel is not mentioned, and thirdly, there are mentions of traditions and the galushko-khutor mentality, the author where embroidered shirts, where is the mention of the red harem pants Aladdin and curved Turkish chablis? a feeling that the "dish" is good, but something grabs.
        1. vignat21
          vignat21 14 September 2013 14: 58 New
          +6
          You can find out more about Mov and "Ukraine" here:

          http://alternatio.org/articles/articles/itemlist/user/133-александрка
          revin
      3. Siberian German
        Siberian German 14 September 2013 10: 19 New
        24
        Although I am German, I want to say the following - who forbids us to use these methods against the same Europe, USA, etc. we need to clearly set a goal and achieve it by any means. Someone will say that there should be a framework of humanity and something else - but look, they are not shy to sow hatred between nations and achieve their goals, so we should act
        1. Sibiryak
          Sibiryak 14 September 2013 10: 26 New
          +9
          Quote: Siberian German
          Someone will say that there should be a framework of humanity and something else - but look, they are not shy to sow hatred between nations and achieve their goals, so we should act

          And what will it lead to, you can say?
          1. Siberian German
            Siberian German 14 September 2013 12: 18 New
            +7
            I don’t know what this will lead to, but it doesn’t stop them. although I myself am disgusted, but someone must do it for the good of our country and our peoples. and I put you a plus
            1. Sibiryak
              Sibiryak 14 September 2013 13: 25 New
              +9
              Siberian German
              Hatred never gave rise to virtue, so before you do anything you always need to think about the consequences.
              1. Karabin
                Karabin 15 September 2013 17: 17 New
                +2
                Quote: Sibiryak
                Hatred never begets virtue

                But virtue often led to hatred. With good intentions, the road to hell is paved.
            2. Rider
              Rider 14 September 2013 13: 34 New
              21
              Quote: Siberian German
              I don’t know what this will lead to, but their it does not stop.

              this is precisely the difference between US and THEM.
              we defeat the enemy in fair battle, they most often act from under the silence by the method of "divide, bleed, and conquer"
              what actually happened with the "project Ukraine"

              and that is why they seek to destroy us, because we carry a different civilizational code, a different worldview and spiritual essence.

              WE cannot act as THEY; this contradicts our internal principles.
              they do not manage to act like us, because it does not make a profit and does not lead to what they strive for - to power.

              that’s the difference in mentality.
              1. The centurion
                The centurion 14 September 2013 15: 12 New
                +5
                Quote: Rider
                WE cannot act as THEY; this contradicts our internal principles.

                Well, in vain, smart people teach differently.
                Regarding a shameless person, nobility is excessive nonsense.
                Publius Sir
                1. Rider
                  Rider 14 September 2013 15: 19 New
                  +8
                  Quote: Centurion
                  Well, in vain,


                  it is possible, but having become the same predators as the Europeans, why do we need God (or Earth, if you will)?

                  I believe that Russia has its own mission on earth, and our mentality is part of it.

                  but you can consider my statements as isoteric.
                2. xan
                  xan 14 September 2013 20: 26 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Centurion
                  Regarding a shameless person, nobility is excessive nonsense.
                  Publius Sir

                  Bismarck in politics is smart unscrupulousness and meanness, a sort of scam on an international scale, and a very competent placement of flags. But it was very effective and always achieved the goal.
                3. Mikhail3
                  Mikhail3 15 September 2013 22: 00 New
                  +2
                  As a rule, Roman pearls of the mind are written on human skin. Such, you know, economic reality - you need to be a smart and zealous host. Since a slave has begun to grow old - why transfer food to him? Parchment is expensive, books too ... but isn't it nice to use the tender skin of a young girl for a love message? Always remember this when reading the Roman legacy.
                  So about this thought. Nobleness, of course, is unnecessary. That's just between the nobility and assimilation of filth there is still a huge distance ... which Publius prefers not to notice. Still, he needs an excuse for his own meanness and sells well an excuse for the meanness of others. Since the enemy is shameless, let us drop the honor! Forget fidelity, duty, decency ... we’ll settle down next to the bloody trough, slurp the same yushka ... only better! Bigger, stronger, meaner, bloodier.
                  Do not forget about human skin, fraught with ...
              2. Karabin
                Karabin 15 September 2013 17: 28 New
                +3
                Quote: Rider
                this is precisely the difference between US and THEM.
                we defeat the enemy in fair battle, they most often act from under the silence by the method of "divide, bleed, and conquer"

                No need to sew wings onto your back. There are enough examples when you used the methods so blamed by you in the history of RI and the USSR to achieve the results. I do not see anything wrong with this, if we are talking about the interests of the country. We will indulge in trifling, and get the fate of the American Indians.
                1. Rider
                  Rider 15 September 2013 17: 36 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Karabin
                  There are enough examples when you used the methods so blamed by you in the history of RI and the USSR to achieve the results.


                  quite possible,
                  however, I draw your attention to the fact that the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR didn’t poison gas on an industrial scale, and didn’t drop atomic bombs on defenseless cities, didn’t use carpet bombing, didn’t poison whole countries with opium, didn’t arrange genocide and concentration camps for gentry peoples, and didn’t set some nations on others.

                  AND THE MOST IMPORTANT IS NOT JUSTIFYING THIS BY BEING "DEMOCRACY"

                  do not you think that this is enough to not put Russia on a par with the West.

                  I advise you to think about it.
                  1. Rider
                    Rider 15 September 2013 18: 16 New
                    +2
                    I understand that those who put me cons, believe that the RI.SSSR did all of the above?

                    it would be interesting to listen to their arguments

                    laughing
                    1. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 15 September 2013 18: 31 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Rider
                      it would be interesting to listen to their arguments
                      They have already presented all their arguments (minuses) ... request
                2. Mikhail3
                  Mikhail3 15 September 2013 22: 03 New
                  0
                  And as soon as RI and the USSR began to do such things what happened to them? And now "I don’t see anything bad"? Gorbachev, relocate, what is already there ...
            3. sergo0000
              sergo0000 15 September 2013 00: 08 New
              0
              Quote: Siberian German
              I don’t know what it will lead to, but it doesn’t stop them.

              That's right! And you are a plus.
              1. Anat1974
                Anat1974 15 September 2013 01: 22 New
                +1
                Listen less to this balabol! He has already shown himself (or rather, he didn’t show anything), being in the ranks of the Armed Forces. Now he is trying without a sword, but with his scream, to talk about flying saucers, about telepathy, about his “most powerful” contribution to the development of our armed forces and, of course, that all world problems and their permanent deadlocks cannot do without him and personally resolved issues. Well, what to do, became a public person. I want to steal some money for old age with my epics.
                Well guys, I have such an opinion about him.
                Although I know his fans have enough.
          2. Anat1974
            Anat1974 15 September 2013 01: 08 New
            0
            Most likely to our well-being, well, at least, I think, to calm.
        2. sergey1972
          sergey1972 14 September 2013 23: 03 New
          +4
          Siberian German, at your call to beat their "bastards" with their own weapons, I will give you an excerpt from the poems of the Russian poet and writer Kunyaev: we did not consider the fallen, we did not vindicate blood vengeance and only therefore became the last hope of the earth.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        3. avia12005
          avia12005 15 September 2013 07: 42 New
          0
          War is won in the territory of the enemy. Consequently, it is necessary to develop the idea of ​​self-determination of Texas and California, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and not to spare money for this. The thoughts of Western politicians and the resources of the West should be aimed at preserving their countries, and not at winning world domination.
      4. xan
        xan 14 September 2013 20: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: Sibiryak
        Everything new is well forgotten old!

        spiral development is a well-forgotten old, but on a different level.
    2. Kars
      Kars 14 September 2013 09: 38 New
      21
      How nice so much attention to Ukraine.
      What is not a day is an article, or even a few.
      It turns out Ukraine is the basis of Russia's power, it is twice as pleasant.

      I’ll insert a picture, so for fun))))
      1. Sibiryak
        Sibiryak 14 September 2013 09: 49 New
        +5
        Quote: Kars
        How nice so much attention to Ukraine.

        I somehow had no doubt that you would remain aloof from this topic, Andrei, without attesting to your respect, so to speak.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel 14 September 2013 11: 05 New
          +3
          Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions, Putin failed the regional policy to divide Ukraine into East and West. Everyone who was loyal to Russian politics began to reconsider their attitude not in favor of Putin. And time. It works against unification. A generation has already grown up brought up by the bickering of politicians of the two states. The second will grow up. which will consider itself citizens of neighboring states. Putin’s imperial ambitions do not scare away, but simply push us apart. And all those who believe, like Putin, that an alliance is possible on a "voluntary-compulsory basis" are mistaken. Do not believe corrupt media. mouthpiece of power. They did everything to smear us in shit in front of each other. Two pa-khan quarreled, and at lackeys forelocks crackled from servility to their gentlemen. Unfortunately, power and time forcefully alienate us from each other. We have omitted everything and allowed the creation of this situation. Maybe we will not spread rot each other and amuse power. Time will tell. It also heals, and the rulers are not eternal.
          1. Sibiryak
            Sibiryak 14 September 2013 11: 41 New
            0
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions

            And what's wrong with that, to put together the masses together, confusion and reeling have never been brought to good. It’s very interesting what Yanukovych is doing while Putin is consolidating the masses, so to speak, you can answer wink ?
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Everyone who was loyal to Russian politics began to reconsider their attitude not in favor of Putin.

            It’s you about your politicians, apparently, the patient has ended.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            And time. It works against unification.

            It only shows that history doesn’t teach anything to some!
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            And all those who believe, like Putin, that an alliance is possible on a "voluntary-compulsory basis" are mistaken.

            I can agree or disagree with Putin’s actions, but in my opinion, without the voluntary-compulsory aspects of our country’s relations a long time ago, there would have been no longer.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Do not believe corrupt media. mouthpiece of power. They did everything to smear us in shit in front of each other.

            Our "friends" who have been involved in this media for a long time already, as always, money is at the forefront.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Unfortunately, power and time forcefully alienate us from each other. We have omitted everything and allowed the creation of this situation. Maybe we will not spread rot each other and amuse power.

            Why spread rot for each other, join us, and you all set some conditions.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Time will tell. It also heals, and the rulers are not eternal.

            Rulers may not last forever, but an idea can be immortal and passed down from generation to generation!
          2. xan
            xan 14 September 2013 20: 39 New
            0
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions,

            Zadolbali you already with your emotions.
            Ukrainians, do you set yourself the task of developing the economy, or do you agree to completely lie under Europe?
            Putin is trying to build an independent economy - only it is able to provide Russian citizens with the welfare of the first ranks. You lie down under the West - the welfare of the first level, even the second and third, you will not have in principle. I see you like this. You already lived with Russians in the same country, and you lived better than Russians. In another alliance, you can forget about equal economies, and therefore about an equal standard of living.
            Do you understand this, or problems with IQ?
            1. Captain Vrungel
              Captain Vrungel 14 September 2013 23: 26 New
              +3
              Thank. I understand that you have big problems with IQ. You stick out yourself with the merits of Putin, although nothing depends on you. And your personality does not play any role in history. We did not live with the Russians. We were Soviet. One scoundrel and three trays divorced us and you, personally, have not gone far from our nationalists. How do you prove that you are Russian by blood? Do you know the story of your grandmothers and great-great-grandmothers, with whom did they mix blood? We are citizens of Ukraine, then Ukrainians, you are Russia, then Russians, and our nationalities are so blurred that we differ from each other only in skin color, eye shape and the language they speak.
              1. xan
                xan 15 September 2013 00: 21 New
                -3
                Quote: Captain Vrungel
                Thank. I understand that you have big problems with IQ. You stick out yourself with the merits of Putin, although nothing depends on you. And your personality does not play any role in history.

                Captain Vrungel, my post was about economics, not about me personally.
                Why did you write this nonsense?
                you got brain after brain?
      2. alone
        alone 14 September 2013 10: 22 New
        22
        look at the photo. and the soldier then understands what will happen to Russia and the people. but no one paid attention to this))
        1. Ducksar
          Ducksar 14 September 2013 10: 35 New
          +7
          everything will be fine ... not thanks, but contrary!
        2. Sibiryak
          Sibiryak 14 September 2013 10: 36 New
          12
          alone
          And to them that this soldier, like all other people and the country in particular, the thirst for profit prevailed over the reason and opinion of the majority!
        3. The centurion
          The centurion 14 September 2013 15: 19 New
          +5
          Quote: lonely
          and the soldier understands what will happen to Russia and the people

          Bravo for the comment !!!!!!!!!
          Only this soldier is positive in this photo, all the rest are either venal enemy rabble or do not know what they are doing.
        4. Algor73
          Algor73 15 September 2013 10: 55 New
          0
          The soldier, to cancel from everyone else, just understands what will happen to Russia and the people ...
      3. roial
        roial 14 September 2013 11: 57 New
        +5
        Amused tanker reaction laughing
        ... "What is he carrying ??"
        1. Rider
          Rider 14 September 2013 13: 39 New
          0
          Quote: roial
          . "What is he carrying ??"


          rather, he foresees WHERE he will be sent in a couple of years by “bearers of democracy and guarantors of the constitution”

          him and tens of thousands like him.

          and there is very little fun.
      4. Siberian German
        Siberian German 14 September 2013 12: 21 New
        +3
        I believe that Ukraine itself and the Ukrainian people deserve great respect and attention from our side, but not in the context of this article, but as fraternal people for us
        1. Rider
          Rider 14 September 2013 13: 41 New
          +5
          Quote: Siberian German
          I believe that Ukraine itself and the Ukrainian people deserve


          but I believe that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people will get what they are striving for.

          in full ...
      5. Sibiryak
        Sibiryak 14 September 2013 13: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        I’ll insert a picture, so for fun))))

        All who are on the tank, except for the crew Ukrainians belay ?? wink (joke!)
      6. smprofi
        smprofi 14 September 2013 15: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        How nice so much attention to Ukraine.
        What is not a day is an article, or even a few.

        Kars, it's all very simple:
        Media: V. Surkov will return to the Kremlin to oversee Ukraine.

        On another forum, a comment about a person living in the Urals:
        As I understand it, with the advent of this character, on our Internet, the good old ho_hlo_sra_ch will be revived and undeservedly forgotten.

        von Bismarck and Dulles absolutely nothing to do with it, colleague Captain Vrungel absolutely right (Today, 11:05)
        1. Sibiryak
          Sibiryak 14 September 2013 15: 26 New
          +1
          smprofi
          Of course, just Vasily, as I understand it, judging from your post, the neighbor is to blame for all your personal problems! Keep up the good work, go far! This approach is now welcomed in Western politics.
          1. smprofi
            smprofi 14 September 2013 16: 08 New
            +6
            Quote: Sibiryak
            in all your personal problems, the neighbor is to blame!

            Well, how can I tell you ... if the Kremlin did give me a neighbor, then yes!
            as for Russia and its ordinary citizens - what do they have to do with it?

            and also, Valery, if the nickname Sibiryak is chosen by place of residence, I can say that somewhere near you, in Western Siberia, I have very many relatives (and not only there, and in other regions of Russia). so just harass obscenely all of Russia and all of the people personally, I don’t have any desire.
            1. Sibiryak
              Sibiryak 14 September 2013 17: 01 New
              +3
              Quote: smprofi
              Well, how can I tell you ... if the Kremlin did give me a neighbor, then yes!

              But what about your government and the head of state, which should translate your dreams into reality ?! Are they not competent ?! In fact, you yourself chose them, and not those who are sitting in the Kremlin! Your leaders do whatever they get, and your criticism and dissatisfaction, oddly enough, go to the Kremlin! You do not find that you yourself and your leaders behave somehow incorrectly and for this very reason many questions arise for you.
              Quote: smprofi
              as for Russia and its ordinary citizens - what do they have to do with it?

              Part of our leadership we ourselves chose, so there is a certain relationship!
              My nickname corresponds to Vasily’s place of residence, but Krasnoyarsk is located in Eastern Siberia, come to relatives to Siberia more often, I think they will be very happy and believe me, we don’t have a separation between Russians and Ukrainians so that they don’t tell you, and I also welcome your position regarding Russia and the people.
              1. smprofi
                smprofi 14 September 2013 17: 52 New
                +4
                Valery!
                Quote: Sibiryak
                But what about your government and the head of state, which should translate your dreams into reality ?! Are they not competent ?!

                Well, do not be naive! The lisping and Co are not concerned about the state and the lack of citizens, but about their well-being. as, however, and the previous Ryaby with his comrades. True, the farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans ... more precisely, each subsequent ruler is even worse than the previous one. and there’s no one to choose from. there are simply no normal people in politics!
                Quote: Sibiryak
                oddly enough, the Kremlin gets it!

                yes, simply because the Kremlin is the initiator of most of the "frictions" and "troubles." and, again, not out of the interests of the Russian state, but out of the business interest of the Kremlin residents themselves and their friends. Well, sometimes based on personal insults.

                Quote: Sibiryak
                Part of our leadership, we ourselves chose

                Well, yes, yes, with a turnout of 146% and full approval, with all the personnel who appeared laughing .
                Valery, once again I ask you: do not be naive! the last elections in Russia, somehow still relatively honest, were held in the year 96, when the EBN was reelected for a second term. and that is doubt. and then all.

                Quote: Sibiryak
                believe us, we don’t have a division between Russians and Ukrainians, so that they don’t tell you

                they don’t tell me. or let them say - I don’t listen to stupid things. which I advise you to: do not listen to nonsense about the same division (at least) of Eastern and Western Ukraine.
                as for the Ukrainians and Siberia, in particular, it would be very funny to have a negative attitude towards the Ukrainians in Siberia, if it was mostly immigrants from Ukraine who raised and developed Siberia, Western and Eastern, the Far East according to Stolypin reform at the beginning of the 80th century. in the region of the same Kemerovo there are villages where there were up to 90-XNUMX% of Ukrainians.

                in general ... personally to us, Valery, there is nothing to share with us. and to tear shirts on each other and so on yes to clean each other's beak because of the behavior of our "beloved politicians" ... Do you need it? to me - no.

                only once again I repeat: all this "Ms." (and related articles including here on topwar) is not casual. and this is probably just the beginning.
                1. Sibiryak
                  Sibiryak 14 September 2013 20: 12 New
                  +1
                  Quote: smprofi
                  all is not casual. and this is probably just the beginning.

                  Therefore, I say that it is necessary to unite, without presenting various conditions, but for the rest we will see! Yours faithfully hi !
                  1. smprofi
                    smprofi 14 September 2013 23: 05 New
                    +4
                    and someone against the union? yes only for!
                    Yes, but not under the flags of the Duke of Cumberland, to be exact, the Tsar Ampirator All Gazprom.
                    1. Sibiryak
                      Sibiryak 15 September 2013 05: 58 New
                      0
                      Quote: smprofi
                      yes only for! Yes, but not under the flags of the Duke of Cumberland, to be exact, the Tsar Ampirator All Gazprom.

                      Again conditions! Omitting political subtexts, personally, what did Gazprom prevent you from doing? And whose flag can you offer?
                  2. smprofi
                    smprofi 15 September 2013 01: 41 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Sibiryak
                    and the rest wait and see!

                    Well, "live" did not last long:
                    “OMON officers at the Kuntsevskaya metro station on Saturday detained two Ukrainian citizens who had gas masks, containers with toxic substance and a device for spraying it,” said a spokesman for the Moscow police.

                    As explained by the Ukrainians, they work in a company that is engaged in the removal of insects from apartments and metropolitan offices.

                    Nevertheless, the police decided to check whether the testimonies of the detainees were true. The legality of the stay of detainees in the Russian Federation will also be checked.
                    1. Sibiryak
                      Sibiryak 15 September 2013 06: 03 New
                      0
                      Quote: smprofi
                      Well, they didn’t have to “live” for long: “OMON officers at the Kuntsevskaya metro station on Saturday detained two Ukrainian citizens who had gas masks, containers with toxic substances and a device for spraying them,” said a spokesman for the Moscow police.

                      This still does not mean anything, in such situations it is necessary to understand! In the family, as they say, there are deviations from the norm, and deviations not related to nationality!
                    2. Bigfoot_Sev
                      Bigfoot_Sev 15 September 2013 18: 07 New
                      0
                      Well, everything is simple.
                      metro rules (from the "forbidden to transport" part):
                      2.10.3. Flammable, explosive, poisonous, toxic substances and objects, including household gas cylinders.

                      if I go with a can of diesel fuel, they will accept me too.
                      Thank God that people with suspicious cylinders will be checked in the subway. 8-)

                      = ^ _ ^ =
      7. FunkschNNX
        FunkschNNX 14 September 2013 18: 04 New
        0
        The soldier in the photo would have thrown a few grenades at the armor of his car, and closed the hatch itself inside tightly. These Motherland would bring much benefit, so many traitors at once lime.
      8. The comment was deleted.
      9. Anat1974
        Anat1974 15 September 2013 01: 24 New
        0
        In this photo, there is only one warrior in the subject.
    3. smile
      smile 14 September 2013 12: 49 New
      +6
      My address
      But there is a drawback, not enough. Not enough materials, the role of Austrian intelligence in the formation of the Ukrainian language is not indicated, it is not told how and by whom the first "independent" governments were formed, and that the independents were always someone else's servants for maintenance .... This leaves loopholes for the Svidomo people to cut back. :)))
      Dear normal Ukrainians, please note that our bay is not aimed at you but at some Svidomites and your government, as a result of which our countries seem to diverge like ships in the sea.
      1. Rider
        Rider 14 September 2013 13: 56 New
        +3
        Quote: smile
        But there is a drawback, not enough.



        not only, it was not told about the creation of the first concentration camps in Europe - Thalerhof, which included Rusyns and Little Russians who did not want to consider themselves Ukrainians.
        http://films-online.su/forum/14-511-1


        Well, the creation of the "Ukrainian" language would not hurt to write.

        However, this already exists: http://oko-planet.su/fail/failbook/155069-aleksandr-karevin-rus-nerusskaya.html
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 14 September 2013 14: 40 New
          -4
          Quote: Rider
          not only, it was not told about the creation of the first concentration camps in Europe - Thalerhof, which included Rusyns and Little Russians who did not want to consider themselves Ukrainians.

          Ruthenians and Bukovynians (originally native inhabitants of Transcarpathian, Ternopil regions), i.e. "Westerners-Svidomity" became Russian and Little Russians ?! belay laughing
          Damn, I can not)))) laughing laughing laughing
          1. Rider
            Rider 14 September 2013 14: 47 New
            11
            Quote: Corneli
            Ruthenians and Bukovynians (originally native inhabitants of Transcarpathian, Ternopil regions), i.e. "Westerners-Svidomity" became Russian and Little Russians ?!


            Today it simply does not fit into the consciousness that even a hundred years ago, Count Vladimir Bobrinsky, speaking in the State Duma, could justifiably say: "How to love Russia and fight for it, we all need to learn from the Galicians." It may also seem unbelievable, but in those not so distant by historical standards, the times of Galicia, she is Galicia (Galich is the first capital of the Galicia-Volyn principality), in terms of pro-Russian sentiment, it was not much inferior to the current Donbass, and in the number of members of pro-Moscow organizations surpassed modern Crimea.

            http://www.stoletie.ru/vzglyad/antirusskaja_matrica_129.htm


            I advise you Oleg to start learning the history of his land and people.
          2. alone
            alone 14 September 2013 15: 23 New
            +2
            Quote: Corneli
            Ruthenians and Bukovynians (originally native inhabitants of Transcarpathian, Ternopil regions), i.e. "Westerners-Svidomity" became Russian and Little Russians ?!
            Damn, I can not))))


            wassat you can))))
    4. serge-68-68
      serge-68-68 14 September 2013 15: 04 New
      +7
      The article, perhaps, is beautiful, only Bismarck did not say this so-and-so-worn phrase ...
    5. Very old
      Very old 14 September 2013 18: 50 New
      +1
      What are you guys talking about? After all, I love you. Stop dogging!
    6. cdrt
      cdrt 15 September 2013 18: 15 New
      0
      It is difficult to spoil the facts: indeed, for most of history, the concept of Ukraine was territorial, not national.
      Yes, the Austro-Hungarian empire had a hand in formalizing the concept of Ukrainians.
      But ... there is such a thing - ethnogenesis.
      Yes, two hundred years ago there were no Ukrainians as a modern nation, but many cultural scientists and historians believe that the Russian people finally developed by the middle of the 19th century.
      So - we are just present at the final registration of several peoples from the previous community - Russians.
      Like, dislike - a matter of taste, but the process seems to be objective.
      And the upcoming Vilnius: in fact, the signature of the symbol.
      For the value of this document will be only symbolic - Ukraine will be an EU market for it, and not a full equal part, and this, with the loss of enormous economic benefits from trade with Russia - says a lot, not just the interests of the oligarchs, traitors to politicians, etc. .P.
      Both oligarchs and politicians behave only as conditions allow, the same people.
      Old wisdom - every nation deserves the government that it has.
  2. major071
    major071 14 September 2013 08: 31 New
    21
    Otto von Bismarck:
    “The power of Russia can only be undermined by separating Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, to pit two parts of a single people and watch how a brother will kill his brother. To do this, you only need to find and nurture traitors among the national elite and, with their help, change the identity of one part of the great people to such an extent that they will hate everything Russian, hate their kind, without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”
    The first part has already been completed by the collapse of the Soviet Union: Ukraine has been separated from Russia, the second is being implemented now. To push one people against one’s foreheads is the dream of the West.
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 14 September 2013 08: 43 New
      +7
      Quote: major071
      The first part has already been completed by the collapse of the Soviet Union: Ukraine has been separated from Russia, the second is being implemented now. To push one people against one’s foreheads is the dream of the West.

      I can imagine how much money Yanukovych received “from this dream” in his own pocket!
      When solving geopolitical tasks, the West does not particularly stand on ceremony with the laws, it can be seen on the fate of Gorbachev!
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 14 September 2013 16: 35 New
        +4
        Quote: APASUS
        When solving geopolitical tasks, the West does not particularly stand on ceremony with laws,

        "The referendum law adopted by the Ukrainian authorities is extremely dangerous for the stability of Ukraine.
        This was stated European Commission Secretary for Democracy through Law Thomas Markert
        "I would not like to speculate about the motives that guide the Ukrainian authorities. However, I think it’s extremely dangerous for the stability of the country to have a probability in which virtually anything can be changed through a referendum," Markert said in an interview with Deutsche Welle.
        http://lb.ua/news/2013/06/26/208892_evropa_schitaet_zakon_referendume.html
        xxxxxx
        This is a reaction to the attempts of the Communist Party to hold a referendum for joining the CU !!!!
        Well, where are human rights and democracy?
        1. Rider
          Rider 14 September 2013 17: 06 New
          +3
          Quote: Egoza
          Well, where are human rights and democracy?


          Well, you, democracy, it is for the elite.
          and the natives should do what the white lord orders.

          laughing
    2. Che Guevara
      Che Guevara 14 September 2013 14: 47 New
      +7
      I recall a mess of 93 years, in general, I sit in a tavern quietly, with vodka, in the corner a peasant of about 50 years old, briefly an hour and a half later we thump together, it turns out to be a security officer, general. Then we are worried about vodka with a herring, well, I served him in the 81th Army in 83-40, he was in those places too, licked at one in the morning, said interesting words: “Belarus, Russian, Ukrainian and Kazakh came to the forest drag it, well, there’s still no way to do without a Kazakh, but without a Ukrainian, no matter how, in general, a billion greens fell off the Tanovites, came and signed, “I didn’t believe him then. But now, after all the elective companies, the orange revolutions, and naturally expected geyintegration Ukraine - I BELIEVE.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 15 September 2013 10: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Chegevara
        .But now, after all the elective companies, the orange revolutions, and of course the expectedly expected geyintegration of Ukraine - I BELIEVE.

        I remember the IMF was very indignant after they transferred the next monetary tranche of Russia, and on the morning of August 17, 1998 they defaulted. And why should I be surprised?
    3. Very old
      Very old 14 September 2013 19: 07 New
      +2
      And let it be only a dream. This I say, SLAVAN
    4. xan
      xan 14 September 2013 21: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: major071
      The first part has already been completed by the collapse of the Soviet Union: Ukraine has been separated from Russia, the second is being implemented now. To push one people against one’s foreheads is the dream of the West.

      enough of these snot already separated and what, to sue them?
      it is necessary to do something without which there is no strong state - to deal with the country's economy and its social problems. Whining is not our method; our ancestors did not build an empire by whining.
      But the Ukrainians did not feel like one with the Russian people, well, the flag in their hands. They clearly considered the Russians dumber and stupid themselves.
      Like one comment
      the brotherhood of the brothers who have fallen from Russia is understandable: in the USSR they were part of a great country, a superpower, and now they are provincial backyards of Europe on the roles of "what you please." And the sight of how, WITHOUT THEM, RUSSIA regains its former influence, it’s understandable, causes a wild cognitive dissonance, they say, "how is it that we are insignificant, but they are not? That is, the achievements of the USSR were really possible without us? That is, we just sticky fish, parasites, and also stupid ones, because they themselves left the lactating organism "? Well, the normal defensive reaction is to declare that this is all untrue and only seems to start demanding equality. Everything is simple and unoriginal. Get used to it, bros, this is life.
      In Ukraine, Russians need only those who consider themselves to be one people with the Russians, and who will be with the Russians in any situation. And of course, with the earth. The rest let them build their independent Ukraine, though it doesn’t work.
      And further. Ukrainians, do you really think that you make some unique chocolates or will we say pipes there that you can’t do without in Russia? Salaries in Russia are higher, which means some products are more expensive. To launch Ukrainian goods on the market means to leave their jobs without work. In such cases, any normal state will protect its market, and therefore its higher standard of living. And if for a friendly state this can be done, then for an unfriendly, and Ukraine an unfriendly state - no. Russia behaves like a normal state, and for some reason, this causes the Ukrainians to cry out for twisting their arms and forcing friendship. Forget your friend Europe, they beg for preferences and other nishtyaki.
      Independent - behave as an adult, without whining, tantrums and snot.
      By and large, there are no good sponsors and freeloaders in the international arena, this is capitalism. For an apparent freebie you will always pay with something. You can only rely on yourself. In Russia, they understand this, and Ukrainians hope in Europe.
      Miracles do not happen.
  3. xetai9977
    xetai9977 14 September 2013 08: 44 New
    19
    A lot of oil is added to the fire and articles on a site such as "the war of Ukraine and the Russian Federation ...."
    1. MG42
      MG42 14 September 2013 11: 53 New
      +4
      A trade war between Ukraine and Russia can become quite real in the light of recent events, especially in the second half of this fall ..
      1. xan
        xan 15 September 2013 00: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: MG42
        A trade war between Ukraine and Russia can become quite real in the light of recent events, especially in the second half of this fall ..

        this is not a trade war, this is the protection of its manufacturer. The conditions for Ukraine will be the same as the conditions for any European country. It will be logical and honest in relation to our companies, and to foreign companies that have placed their production with us. Another policy is the “sucker and goof” policy, which the Kremlin doesn’t
    2. smile
      smile 14 September 2013 12: 55 New
      +5
      xetai9977
      Of course, after all, the author in that article was clearly not on the side of Russia, and for some reason they add fuel to the fire from that side. :)))
    3. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 14 September 2013 13: 42 New
      +8
      Quote: xetai9977
      A lot of oil is added to the fire and articles on a site such as "the war of Ukraine and the Russian Federation ...."


      By the way, about this possible war (as such), raised an issue one elderly "nerd" from the Rada, long before it was announced that Ukraine would turn in the "wrong" direction.
    4. Egoza
      Egoza 14 September 2013 16: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: xetai9977
      A lot of oil is added to the fire and articles on a site such as "the war of Ukraine and the Russian Federation ...."

      You are mistaken. Such an article is an explanation of how young people are fooled in Ukraine. On the one hand, they talk about war, and on the other,
      "The law on the All-Ukrainian referendum is legally not quite decent, and everything possible must be done so that the referendum does not take place in Ukraine.
      This was stated by ex-head of the Central Election Commission Vladimir Shapoval in an interview with the newspaper Ukraine Young.
      Shapoval recalled, "My position is this: an all-Ukrainian referendum on any issue will split the society, which is already fragmented."
      http://lb.ua/news/2013/09/13/226220_eksglava_tsik_zakon_referendume.html?utm_sou

      rce = lbua & utm_medium = link & utm_campaign = mainitem
      XXXX
      And God forbid, they will lead them and it turns out that the people are not seeking Europe! laughing
      1. Garrin
        Garrin 14 September 2013 19: 01 New
        +2
        Elena, welcome!
        As far as I know, recently one of the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada from Odessa, the PR faction, specifically Markov, was deprived of the mandate. Could you clarify? Just hit one of the comments on the Ukrainian site.


        Who, whom, but Markov needed to shoot at the end of the day, shit out of the way, scream, wriggled out of the way, so that you doused the end of the gasoline, and p_palit_, and take a look at the camera, and I know that you don’t need to know more than 5 times I’m fucking pig in Ukraine.
        I surplus life, let’s live, and to the end of my life a little роз щ є, schozavlivayuschayav havalnik proti Ukraine.

        transfer:
        Someone, and Markov, needs to be shot in the limbs so that he writhes in pain, then doused his limbs with gasoline and set it on fire, and filmed on the camera and distributed on the internet so that other scum from the 5th column knew that they were waiting for them for their pig activities in Ukraine. And leave to live, let him live, and until the end of his worthless life, he regrets that he has yawned against Ukraine

        Thank you.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 14 September 2013 19: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: Garrin
          recently one of the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada from Odessa, the PR faction, specifically Markov, was deprived of the mandate.

          Markov consistently and openly advocates entry into the CU. And despite the "suggestion" of the president made specifically for the deputies of the PR, he did not give up his position. And "suddenly" it turned out that the election results (from 2012g) in its area are being questioned. Former people's deputy Y. Karmazin sues and ... Markov is deprived of his mandate. True, until he gave it away and will defend his mandate in court. It should also be noted that Markov was the head of the Rodina public organization in Odessa, and all anti-fascist and anti-nationalist youth speeches took place with the filing of this organization. The truth is not always peaceful guys "faced" with "Freedom"
          1. xan
            xan 14 September 2013 22: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: Egoza
            Markov consistently and openly advocates entry into the CU. And despite the "suggestion" of the president made specifically for the deputies of the PR, he did not give up his position.

            Well, it turns out there are pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine!
            1. maxvet
              maxvet 15 September 2013 13: 28 New
              +1
              Quote: xan
              Well, it turns out there are pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine!

              rather not pro-Russian, but adequate
  4. andru_007
    andru_007 14 September 2013 09: 04 New
    +6
    I am glad that this question is being raised. I think in the end, reason prevails, part of the Russian people (which were artificially divided) will be stigmatized by Ukrainians (Ukrainians), and we will unite, God forbid!
    1. Paul 23rus
      Paul 23rus 14 September 2013 09: 32 New
      +5
      Yes, only how to tell Ukraine this .....
      1. M. Peter
        M. Peter 14 September 2013 09: 39 New
        10
        Simply and easily!
        Of course, they throw me tomatoes and rotten eggs for my views ...
        If Ukraine becomes part of the Eurasian Union, the new state should process the younger generations of Russian people in Ukraine, through the Ministry of Education. To throw rubbish about the fraternal peoples in the trash, there are no fraternal peoples, there is one single Russian people and that’s it. Two or three generations can be forgotten about Ukrainians.
        1. Paul 23rus
          Paul 23rus 14 September 2013 10: 05 New
          +1
          Well, it is clear that work in this direction is already underway at the United Football Championship as an example, and knowing their attitude to this, I want to say not so much that they want to unite, even in football ...
        2. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 14 September 2013 13: 52 New
          +7
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          If Ukraine becomes part of the Eurasian Union, the new state should process the younger generations of Russian people in Ukraine, through the Ministry of Education. To throw rubbish about the fraternal peoples in the trash, there are no fraternal peoples, there is one single Russian people and that’s it. Two or three generations can be forgotten about Ukrainians.


          An example of Serbia.
          To begin with, they “handed over” Milosevic for the promised, but still not received, credit for the restoration of the country after bombing by forces of the USA and NATO, from the same (!) USA. And NEVER get it. An “orange” revolution has taken place in the country, a generation has come to the leadership of the country, for whom historical ties with Russia are an empty and worthless sound.
          I think that the example and analogy are more than visual.

          PS Thank God, the Serbs had the mind not to invent their own super-ethnos, rooted in the birth of the universe.
          1. M. Peter
            M. Peter 14 September 2013 16: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            PS Thank God, the Serbs had the mind not to invent their own super-ethnos, rooted in the birth of the universe.

            The Serbs, this story happened earlier than ours, the Croats who are you?
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 14 September 2013 16: 11 New
              +4
              Quote: M.Pyotr
              The Serbs, this story happened earlier than ours, the Croats who are you?


              In our opinion - let's not?
              If you really want to, go to the branch about Scythian Russia.
              hi
        3. Egoza
          Egoza 14 September 2013 16: 31 New
          +5
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          To throw rubbish about the fraternal peoples in the trash, there are no fraternal peoples, there is one single Russian people and that’s it.

          And here I do not agree. Many deeds during the Second World War and glorious deeds in peaceful life during the USSR were committed by people who considered themselves Ukrainians. Therefore, indiscriminate denial-prohibition is an insult to their memory. Another thing is that it is necessary to explain that there was Little Russia. And the word "Little Russia" does not mean "younger brother." On the contrary, As Athens - Central Greece was the cradle of Hellas - Greater Greece, so Little Russia-Kievan Rus was the cradle of Great Russians. Well, there was a period when the enemies of the Russian people - Rus, Rusyns decided to tear them from Russia, called those who lived on the outskirts "Ukrainians" - Ukrainians. So there is nothing derogatory in this either. People living on the outskirts have always been guards, border guards who cherished the main land. If you want to be called Ukrainians, please, do not forget your story. By the way, the “classical” Ukrainian language is the Poltava dialect, which was diligently developed by Russian ethnographers and, in particular, the poetess Olena Pchilka, a Russian noblewoman who was carried away by the ethnographic work of her husband, mastered this dialect of peasants in a month and began to write poetry. And beloved T.G. Shevchenko wrote in Little Russian, and considered himself a Little Russian. It was later, his poems were "combed" under the modern language, and go to his museum, where the originals of his works ... like that, slowly and quietly. but not to wave a saber!
          1. M. Peter
            M. Peter 14 September 2013 17: 05 New
            0
            Quote: Egoza
            And here I do not agree.

            And no one says that you need to convince the current ones living in Ukraine, with a similar one you should not even try. Transformation into Ukrainians went much like bloody. Thalerhof repeat in the opposite direction is not worth it. But the Soviet experience is just right, quietly re-educate back in Russian.
        4. The comment was deleted.
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 14 September 2013 09: 44 New
      +2
      that is one big BUT, there should be a Wish, I got the impression that the Ukrainians, as usual, decided to sit out in caches, and faith in the home-grown “Putin” kills so much, there won’t be a second Putin
      1. M. Peter
        M. Peter 14 September 2013 10: 08 New
        +5
        The state of Ukraine will sell for any. This misunderstanding does not have to exist for long, it is an anti-Russian project in its essence. All their fuss about this speaks, even accession to the EU, or rather joining the FTZ between the EU and Ukraine, because it simply contradicts common sense. As they say, to spite mom’s frostbitten ears ..
  5. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 14 September 2013 09: 14 New
    14
    Divide and conquer (Latin divide et impera), a long time ago invented the formula of enslavement. I think that back in the 4th century, it was said by the pope when he was developing a policy of destroying the Huns and their descendants. The campaign of Genghis Khan's troops to the "last sea" added hatred. Bismarck said: "You can love the whole world, try to love the neighbor." In general, Europe naturally does not associate itself with the culture of Asia, and destroying a neighbor from the East is its primary task. And then they rest against the Nevsky, Suvorov, Kutuzov, Putin.
    1. Rider
      Rider 14 September 2013 14: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Asan Ata
      Divide and conquer (Latin divide et impera), a long time ago invented formula


      vabscheto the formula sounds a little different (as in Latin do not know), but in our opinion, this is so - divide, DRAIN, and conquer.

      she was just a little "ennobled" by silencing the middle link.

      here is another example of an information war.
      by changing the wording, they justify by antiquity essentially the HUMAN law.

      and in vain it is attributed to the Latins (they simply developed and perfected it), traces of this kind of "rule" can be traced back to the Old Testament.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. july
    july 14 September 2013 09: 19 New
    +1
    Yeah, somehow I didn’t think that such were the “roots”. What do you call a yacht ...
  8. Michael_59
    Michael_59 14 September 2013 09: 28 New
    +5
    Quote: Sibiryak
    Everything new is well forgotten old!


    Our enemies, no matter how bitterly it sounds, just - "nothing is forgotten." Unlike us, the Slavs, whose brains were washed in bulk by the Edomason propaganda and whose spirit began to decay, the situation with knowledge of our roots and memory is purposefully and planned to worsen.
  9. George
    George 14 September 2013 09: 33 New
    +6
    It is impossible to defeat the Russians, we have seen this for hundreds of years. But you can instill false values, and then they will defeat themselves!
  10. Gennady1973
    Gennady1973 14 September 2013 09: 37 New
    19
    I want to ask. Ukrainians, Russians, Belarusians. What can not we share? for what are they trying to push us with their foreheads? Which of us won after each of us received our "independence"? become free? why? why all this dirt on each other? Are we really going to listen to a few who are enough in each republic? I served with the guys from Ukraine as friends and now for each of them I’ll break my mouth so that they don’t blame about hostility and hatred
    1. rpek32
      rpek32 14 September 2013 09: 56 New
      +3
      Bred as suckers and all. am
    2. Rider
      Rider 14 September 2013 14: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Gennady1973
      I want to ask. Ukrainians, Russians, Belarusians. What can not we share?


      AUTHORITY and FEEDER.

      however, this applies only to a small population.
      and everyone else gets the idea of ​​"independence and special choice"
  11. barbiturate
    barbiturate 14 September 2013 09: 47 New
    +2
    and someone doubted?)
  12. Cristall
    Cristall 14 September 2013 09: 59 New
    +6
    It is strange that, for example, the name Little Russia is unpleasant to me, unlike New Russia, which I can at least understand. But to be called novoros is not pleasant. Well, purely humanly unpleasant, and not politically. And it’s nice for a Ukrainian. Again, humanly, territorially and psychologically. And it’s unpleasant for the same reasons to hear Little Russia (as if to hear the same Valuev Circular again)
    Let’s say so - do you even remember we were the Ukrainian SSR - the Ukrainian Republic, why do we need to instill a name that is not very pleasant for us - Malorosiya (without giving details) - it even sounds strange, like "little Russians"
    generations grew up in the Ukrainian SSR and in Ukraine. Not opposing yourself to Russian. With a Russian as a relative, problems begin at the household level - who called whom whom, where he sent, how he said to live, etc.
    Honestly, like children, and from what we call each other, there is a tendency to be offended very much.
    I was born in the Ukrainian SSR, and not Novorossia (but I know that there was a province) I have the right given by the Soviet government to even be called Ukrainian. And I respect the USSR very much. The country where I was born.
    1. Radoslav
      Radoslav 14 September 2013 10: 34 New
      0
      Never in its history has Novorossiya been called Ukraine; it is a historical name. Read the story of Karamzin. He wrote the book “The History of the Creation of the Russian State,” two hundred years ago, and nowhere does he call Novorossia Ukraine. And if you do not want to know and rely on facts, then go play with dolls.
    2. ATATA
      ATATA 14 September 2013 10: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Cristall
      I have the right given by the Soviet power even to be called Ukrainian. And I respect the USSR very much. Country where I was born

      Here is the Soviet government, much more Bismarck has done to turn the southern Russians into Ukrainians. I even think that the USSR project existed specifically to secure this term in the minds of southern Russians. As soon as the term Ukrainian became strong, as soon as the southern Russians were not pleased to call themselves a true name, the USSR was thrown into the trash.
      NATIONAL COMPOSITION OF LVIV IN 1900
      160 thousand inhabitants:
      - Poles 50%;
      - Russians (Uniates) 15%;
      - Jews 30%;
      - Germans 5%

      Where are the Ukrainians?!?!?
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 14 September 2013 13: 53 New
        +5
        Quote: ATATA
        Here is the Soviet government, much more Bismarck has done to turn the southern Russians into Ukrainians. I even think that the USSR project existed specifically to secure this term in the minds of southern Russians. As soon as the term Ukrainian became strong, as soon as the southern Russians were not pleased to call themselves a true name, the USSR was thrown into the trash.

        One thing is not clear to me if you are ATATA so bad about the "project of the USSR" Che do you have a USSR flag?) Why not tricolor?
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 14 September 2013 14: 21 New
          0
          Quote: Corneli
          One thing is not clear to me if you are ATATA so bad about the "project of the USSR" Che do you have a USSR flag?) Why not tricolor?

          I am a product of the USSR project, this is my homeland.
          And for me, the USSR = Russia.
      2. Egoza
        Egoza 14 September 2013 16: 47 New
        -1
        Quote: ATATA
        Where are the Ukrainians?!?!?

        On the Carpathian Heights! The incoming servant was not included in the census.
    3. Rider
      Rider 14 September 2013 14: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: Cristall
      it even sounds strange, like "little Russians"


      as you correctly noticed.

      really - few Russians

      but it is full of Ukrainians.

      maybe this is the problem, do you think?
    4. Che Guevara
      Che Guevara 14 September 2013 15: 01 New
      +2
      Yes, there’s no need to be angry, it’s understandable 80 years, several generations, and also considering that your father, grandfather were Ukrainians, I don’t want to be a Little Russian. This is a story, well, about 400 years ago and before the beginning of the 20th century, it was called Little Russian as Ukrainian, the same thing no one would have perceived. Nevertheless, here on the site you must be ethical and respect each other. I apologize for everyone who could behave incorrectly in nat. issue.
    5. MG42
      MG42 14 September 2013 16: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: Cristall
      Я was born in the Ukrainian SSR, and not Novorossia (but I know that there was a province) I have the right to be called by the Soviet authorities even Ukrainian. And I respect the USSR very much. Country where am i was born.

      How you read these lines and see the girl in the photo is hard to read ..
    6. Egoza
      Egoza 14 September 2013 16: 44 New
      +1
      Quote: Cristall
      And it’s unpleasant for the same reasons to hear Little Russia (as if to hear the same Valuev Circular again)

      And you read what “Little Russia” is and the same Valuevsky circular FULLY. Pay attention to the political situation of that time that happened in history (at least in Wik) - there will be a completely different impression. hi
    7. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 15 September 2013 00: 52 New
      +3
      There was a lot of Ukraine in tsarist Russia (read somewhere in a serious publication). For my ear, Ukraine - sounds like the outskirts, apparently one word. It is clear that for 100 years the region has been called Ukraine, and this name has become native. We were generally called Kyrgyz before, Kyrgyz kaisaks, God knows how. We called ourselves a Cossack, unlike the Cossacks, with a soft “k” at the beginning and at the end, qazaq. And now we are Kazakhstan (I think “x” - for the sake of the historical name). So - how did Ukrainians dignify themselves before Ukraine, the Ukrainian SSR?
  13. mox
    mox 14 September 2013 10: 00 New
    +4
    Four articles with the inclusion of Ukraine on one page.
    Is that a weekend osracha?

    Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles, and in the pursuit of comments, you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass towards the EU.
    Write better about military equipment, the army and the navy. The yellowness and prejudice simply nuzzled.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 14 September 2013 10: 27 New
      0
      Quote: mox
      Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles, and in the pursuit of comments, you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass towards the EU.

      Do not exaggerate. With all due respect to the site, it is somehow doubtful that Putin and Yanukovych read it. It seems that even extracts from articles, and especially comments, are unlikely to find their way to the table of top officials.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 14 September 2013 14: 20 New
        +4
        Quote: Nagan
        Do not exaggerate. With all due respect to the site, it is somehow doubtful that Putin and Yanukovych read it. It seems that even extracts from articles, and especially comments, are unlikely to find their way to the table of top officials.

        You know ... "Kings" may not read ... but people yes.
        About 5 years ago, it tightly hung on the website "inosmi", it was interesting to read a foreign, so to speak opinion. And there was (and still was) my friend-translator (who often traveled abroad), having read that site, he advised me not to strongly ... trust him. Because the articles published there (according to him) had a pronounced anti-Russian orientation, or simply delusional articles that showed the frank stupidity of the Western "people". And he tried to convince me, banally letting you read newspapers like The Times, all sorts of Western magazines, trying to show (prove) that there isn’t such (or, in other words, those topics that INOSMI sticks out in the press are not the main ones ... sometimes they even write ) then I did not believe him and sent him) And he was not a "Svidomo" or Russophobe, for the sake of clarification)
        But recently, my opinion has begun to change ... Moreover, not even on this site or Inosmi, but thanks to mail.ru. It loads automatically with me, when you turn on the browser ... and immediately see the top news. So, the news there (by headlines) exclusively, umm ... strange in short (I wanted to say the other))) Every day, stupidity on stupidity (in terms of Ukraine) is very often some kind of "slogans", negative towards Russia (and out of the blue). You go to the article ... there is rudeness and hysteria, and at the same time such clever uncles (mostly like Ukrainians), these articles and especially "gifted" comments (usually with mates and outright stupidity) are beautifully refuting. it immediately surprised me, then it started to warp (well, can’t such bullshit be worth it? in terms of driving to Russia), and then ... I looked at the sites from which enti "news" was taken. And this is just xs for sites) I began to compare the "top mail ru" with the main news sites of the Ukrainian media and found that those "top news" and endless "highs" in the read news are simply NOT !!!
        In general, I came to a disappointing conclusion ... you, dear Russians and non-respectable Ukrainians, are trivial "zombies" and are set against each other! Hence all these “selective” and frankly provocative articles (you read and it’s still burning to write a couple ... ideally mates). WHAT IS WHAT ?! THIS is a "project" ... I xs ... but he really DOESN'T LIKE me !!!!
        1. Rider
          Rider 14 September 2013 14: 30 New
          +3
          Quote: Corneli
          But recently, my opinion has begun to change ... Moreover, not even on this site or Inosmi, but thanks to mail.ru. It loads automatically when I turn on the browser ...


          I advise you to remove the soap from the start page.
          it (soap), like rambler and NG, is literally riddled with news of a certain nature that evokes negativity.
          at first it’s imperceptible, but after six months of viewing, you are clearly aware of the bias of the “news”

          I recommend the site "Eye of the planet"

          and by the way, you should not have begun to change your mind about the foreign press.
          Certainly 90% of the news there does NOT concern Russia, but in the remaining it is precisely the opinion voiced on foreign media that prevails.
          the exception is newspapers whose circulation does not exceed 1000 copies.

          and INOSMI is a cool site, it’s a pity that they banned me there.
        2. Che Guevara
          Che Guevara 14 September 2013 15: 11 New
          +3
          Could put + put, I’m brand new - nonsense. We teach history - we think, and then we drink half a liter, and it all ends like this "you respect me." Therefore, I have been friends with my neighbor for about 30 years. We know each other very well, help, eat besparmak on holidays (he is Kazakh).
        3. Egoza
          Egoza 14 September 2013 16: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Corneli
          thanks to mail.ru It loads automatically with me, when you turn on the browser ... and immediately see the TOP news

          I have the same picture ... So I do not look at this mail.ru. did not have time to boot up - I immediately go to interesting sites. hi
          1. Rider
            Rider 14 September 2013 17: 09 New
            +1
            Quote: Egoza
            I have the same picture ..


            I don’t understand what you are suffering.

            select the "home page" in your browser settings, insert your favorite site (at least the same VO) and enjoy.
        4. xan
          xan 15 September 2013 01: 01 New
          0
          Quote: Corneli
          Moreover, not even on this site or Inosmi, but thanks to mail.ru. It loads automatically with me, when you turn on the browser ... and immediately see the top news. So, the news there (according to the headlines) is exclusively, mmm ... strange shorter (I wanted to say something different))) Every day, stupidity on stupidity (in terms of Ukraine)

          !
          and where did you see on the soap the news about Ukraine, and even every day?
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 15 September 2013 01: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: xan
            !
            and where did you see on the soap the news about Ukraine, and even every day?

            As I understand it, depending on the ip, the mail loads the "home" page, with the country and city (the weather tells me in Kiev, on the main page)
            1. maxvet
              maxvet 15 September 2013 13: 42 New
              +1
              I used to read about car news and comments on soap, now I’ve thrown comments on any news (especially about Russian cars) such a frustration that “Mama Do not Cry,” I tried to read political and military comments, but I did not overcome the first page, there some trolls are going
    2. ATATA
      ATATA 14 September 2013 10: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: mox
      Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles,

      But can you essentially say something, or do you think that fairy tales about the fact that Bismarck and his ilk invented the Ukrainians are the machinations of those sworn to her?
      1. not good
        not good 14 September 2013 12: 19 New
        +1
        The fact that Bismarck in the appearance of Ukraine played a role of doubt is less than the existence of ancient ukrov laughing
        1. Che Guevara
          Che Guevara 14 September 2013 15: 14 New
          +3
          Russians were famous for kindness, hospitality and patience. Respect other nationalities. Good luck
    3. MG42
      MG42 14 September 2013 12: 14 New
      +4
      Quote: mox
      Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles, and in the pursuit of comments, you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass towards the EU. Write better about military equipment, the army and the navy. The yellowness and prejudice simply nuzzled.

      If you don’t like the article, you just can’t not read it, otherwise such comments as a carbon copy .. change the text for a change ..
      It’s ridiculous to download rights on a Russian site, imagine >> Russians on Ukrainian sites will demand the same so there are still comments without a mat, and you read <Censor> for example what Ukrainians write there .. wassat
      1. MG42
        MG42 14 September 2013 13: 27 New
        +5
        Here read the mox of today's pearl in the Ukrainian Internet >> and especially the comments fool
        Customs wars of Russia against neighboring countries MAP map just like in WWII

        http://censor.net.ua/photo_news/253449/tamojennye_voyiny_rossii_protiv_sosednih_




        stran_karta

        Before you climb with your charter in a strange monastery ..
      2. Rider
        Rider 14 September 2013 14: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: MG42
        there are still comments without a mat, and you read <Censor> for example, what Ukrainians write there.


        But what about the "Unian" I write ...
        1. MG42
          MG42 14 September 2013 16: 22 New
          +3
          Quote: Rider
          But what about the "Unian" I write ...

          ... comments on the article >>

          Russia attributed defeat in the information war for the Customs Union

          http://www.unian.net/news/594570-rossii-pripisali-porajenie-v-informatsionnoy-vo


          yne-za-tamojennyiy-soyuz.html

          Onishchenko admitted that he unreasonably suspected Roshen of re-export schemes

          http://www.unian.net/news/593648-onischenko-priznal-chto-bezosnovatelno-podozrev


          al-roshen-v-reeksportnyih-shemah.html

          So what about the local storytellers .. wassat
          Although there it should be noted mutual srach as well as on the censor ..
    4. MG42
      MG42 14 September 2013 23: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: mox
      and in the pursuit of comments you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass

      The phrases are not unambiguous whom they shove in the ass .. why can’t you write, just push in the direction of the EU? wassat
      Geyropa has already come to Ukraine for a long time, many foreigners travel in search of wives that they could not find in their countries, English is often heard, there is still not enough gaiturism, although I saw two comrades with earrings in their ears and holding hands yesterday. .
      By the way, one of the last laws adopted for European integration concerns gays so that Ukrainian employers do not infringe on their rights ..
  14. Radoslav
    Radoslav 14 September 2013 10: 18 New
    -15
    It is necessary to bring Russian troops into Southeastern Ukraine, before it is too late, the population of these regions will support the actions of Russia. Otherwise, we may lose Ukraine forever and the American goats and pederalist Europe will approach the borders of Russia
    1. alone
      alone 14 September 2013 10: 25 New
      11
      do you even understand what you are offering? have a bite to eat.
      1. Radoslav
        Radoslav 14 September 2013 11: 00 New
        0
        Yes, I clearly acknowledge and understand that if decisive measures are not taken now, then after some time it will be too late, the American and European military will approach the borders of Russia, and no matter how much they assure us of their peace, sooner or later they will fall upon Russia, and then there will be no longer either the Ukrainian or Russian nation, again turn to history, always Russia and fraternal Slavic peoples fought for their independence and self-determination with the West, we were for them, are and will be wild peoples, barbarians. And the fact that you need to act decisively look at America, they wanted to bomb Iraq, they wanted to fight in Afghanistan and they fought, they wanted to overthrow the legitimate government in Libya, and they overthrew, they decided to bomb Syria, and you see, they’ll do it, guys without complexes, they know what they need, and where they had a conscience, you know what grew up there. And when I drink, I not only snack but also drink
        1. alone
          alone 14 September 2013 14: 04 New
          +4
          Quote: Radoslav
          Yes, I clearly acknowledge and understand that if decisive measures are not taken now, after some time it will be too late, the American and European militaries will approach the borders of Russia,


          look towards the Baltic states. West and America 400km from St. Petersburg.

          Quote: Radoslav
          And when I drink, I not only snack but also drink


          I’m glad that you have a snack, but rather drink it with surrogate wine. Otherwise, you can’t explain what you are offering here.
          1. Radoslav
            Radoslav 14 September 2013 15: 48 New
            -1
            You drank a little today, I don’t drink wine with wine, in Russia there is no such tradition, believe me.
        2. rlanry
          rlanry 14 September 2013 14: 35 New
          -1
          Truly, the Slavophiles are worse than the liberals.
          1. Garrin
            Garrin 14 September 2013 18: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: rlanry
            Truly, the Slavophiles are worse than the liberals.

            Very similar to the slogans of white bellies. And give a detailed answer.
            Before receiving an answer - minus mine.
    2. mox
      mox 14 September 2013 10: 52 New
      +5
      Urgently run to the military registration and enlistment office to register as a machine gun driver!
    3. Kars
      Kars 14 September 2013 11: 08 New
      +6
      Quote: Radoslav
      It is necessary to introduce Russian troops into Southeastern Ukraine, before it is too late, the population of these regions support

      I personally promise support, I won’t show much. That I haven’t heard from any citizens of neighboring and not so countries about the desire to send troops to Ukraine, except for .. brothers .. from the Russian Federation)))
      1. Radoslav
        Radoslav 14 September 2013 11: 40 New
        +2
        So you are from western Ukraine. Secondly, then you will soon be licking shoes for the Nigers of the American army, and thirdly, Bendera boldly fought during the war, a lot has been written about it, they ran and hid in rat-like holes, from the Soviet Army, but they fought bravely with women and children. so Anika is a warrior.
        1. Darakht
          Darakht 14 September 2013 13: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: Radoslav
          So you are from western Ukraine. Secondly, then you will soon be licking shoes for the Nigers of the American army, and thirdly, Bendera boldly fought during the war, a lot has been written about it, they ran and hid in rat-like holes, from the Soviet Army, but they fought bravely with women and children. so Anika is a warrior.

          I cried :) He is not from the West, I'm a pancake from the West. Where are the mass shoes of Joe? lol
        2. Kars
          Kars 14 September 2013 15: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: Radoslav
          So you are from western Ukraine

          Generally South, Southeast.
          Quote: Radoslav
          Secondly, then you will soon be licking shoes niggas of the American army

          Why?
          Quote: Radoslav
          third, how Bendera boldly fought during the war, a lot has been written about this, they fled and hid in rat-like holes, from the Soviet Army, but they fought bravely with women and children. This is Anika the warrior.
          Well, one of my grandfathers defended Lenegrad, the second reached Danzig. And secondly, they didn’t particularly defend the methods of the so-called ... Bendera ... there were many different branches - they were not given other tactics, maybe they had to call the Guards Tank for an honest battle The army?

          and for myself I personally vouch for you, meeting with flowers and sweets (naturally Roshen with gasoline)
          1. Radoslav
            Radoslav 14 September 2013 15: 42 New
            +3
            My grandfather also fought, but he began to fight in Finnish, and finished Koenigsberg in 1945, and then we were together and therefore won.
            1. Kars
              Kars 14 September 2013 16: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Radoslav
              , and then we were together therefore and Won.

              why did they lose the Russo-Japanese? Or do I pre-empt the world? Then they seemed to be together too?
              1. Rider
                Rider 14 September 2013 16: 29 New
                0
                Quote: Kars
                why did they lose the Russo-Japanese? Or will I premiere the world?


                neither in the RPN nor in the 1MB, no one was going to destroy the losers at the root, unlike the Second World War.
                hence the difference in reaction to the invasion, and accordingly the result.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 14 September 2013 16: 33 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Rider
                  nobody was going to destroy the losers at the root,

                  This is an elementary excuse. And the facts are a cruel thing. I can still remember the Crimean War.
                  1. Rider
                    Rider 14 September 2013 17: 18 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Kars
                    This is an elementary excuse


                    I don’t understand what do you think is an excuse?
                    probably plan Ost.
                    or are you unfamiliar with a term such as "untermensch"?

                    do you even know why Hitler refused your Bandera right to create the state of Ukraine?
                    yes, simply because the MAJOR flow of immigrants from Germany was planned for the Ukrainian lands.
                    and the Führer preferred to deal with a controlled protectorate than with (albeit a puppet) "government"
                    or do you think that the fate of Ukrainians under the Germans would be better than Russian?
                    Quote: Kars
                    I can still remember the Crimean War.

                    and I can remember the Patriotic War 1812g and what?
                    a request not to confuse the wars waged by the state, and which were PEOPLE.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 14 September 2013 17: 55 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Rider
                      I don’t understand what do you think is an excuse?

                      Quote: Rider
                      losers at the root, in contrast to the Second World War.
                      hence the difference in reaction to the invasion, and accordingly the result.

                      this is an elementary excuse.
                      Quote: Rider
                      do you even know why Hitler refused your Bandera right to create the state of Ukraine?

                      if it honestly doesn’t matter to me, you can recall the Lokot Republic.
                      Quote: Rider
                      or do you think that the fate of Ukrainians under the Germans would be better than Russian?

                      I gave some reason to discuss this topic?

                      Quote: Rider
                      and I can remember the Patriotic War 1812g and what?

                      Napoleon was going to cut everyone in the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia?
                      Quote: Rider
                      a request not to confuse the wars waged by the state, and which were PEOPLE.

                      don't get it here.
                      1. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 18: 20 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        this is an elementary excuse.

                        I understand that you consider this excuse
                        http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/822/yfcy818.jpg
                        Quote: Kars
                        if it honestly doesn’t matter to me, you can recall the Lokot Republic.

                        This site has been discussed more than once on the site, and any sane person sees with this example the organization of German henchmen (like the UPA)
                        Quote: Kars
                        I gave some reason to discuss this topic?

                        and who called the Second World War - an excuse?
                        Push ... uh Shevchenko?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Napoleon was going to cut everyone in the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia?


                        Napoleon decided to change the domestic power, to a foreign power.
                        if it makes no difference to you, then this is your problem.
                        Quote: Kars
                        don't get it here.

                        so do not get into your fabrications all kinds of wars lost by Russia.
                        because this is not even a glimpse of logic.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 14 September 2013 18: 28 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Rider
                        http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/822/yfcy818.jpg

                        And what? Start talking about the triple courts? And the Cheka? Next, what?
                        Quote: Rider
                        This site has been discussed more than once on the site, and any sane person sees with this example the organization of German henchmen (like the UPA)

                        What is it for?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and who called the Second World War - an excuse?
                        Push ... uh Shevchenko?


                        Quote: Rider
                        neither in the RPN nor in the 1MB, no one was going to destroy the losers at the root, unlike the Second World War.
                        hence the difference in reaction to the invasion, and accordingly the result.
                        this is an elementary excuse, the Great Patriotic War won, the rest lost. In this case, even the social system is different, communism and the monarchy. So sorry, but you are in flight, think of something else.

                        Quote: Rider
                        Napoleon decided to change the domestic power, to a foreign power.
                        if it makes no difference to you, then this is your problem.

                        So did he want to cut everyone out or not?
                        Quote: Rider
                        so do not get into your fabrications all kinds of wars lost by Russia.
                        because this is not even a glimpse of logic.
                        Well, if it bothers you so much, you can do as you usually do - take a look, maybe less shame on your ..logic .. you will.
                      3. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 18: 42 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        And what? Start talking about the triple courts? And the Cheka? Next, what?

                        Well, if you agree to be non-commissioned, to send your children to slaves and the land to someone else's uncle, then yes, for you there is no difference.
                        Quote: Kars

                        What is it for? this is an elementary excuse, WWII won, the rest lost.

                        what excuses?
                        Do you consider the GREATEST VICTORY IN HISTORY - Excuse ?!
                        and Krymsk - proof 7
                        is everything okay with your head?
                        you remind me of some commentators from Azerbaijan who famously declared ALL Russian / Turkish wars LOST by Russia.
                        so it’s just you in the “span”, and bring you new “arguments”.
                        Quote: Kars
                        So did he want to cut everyone out or not?

                        so did he want to change power or not?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, if it bothers you so much, you can do as you usually do - take a look, maybe less shame on your ..logic .. you will.

                        so can you begin to answer ARGUMENTED, and not verbiage?
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 14 September 2013 18: 49 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Rider

                        Well, if you agree to be non-commissioned, to send your children to slaves and the land to someone else's uncle, then yes, for you there is no difference.

                        Strange, but someone else’s uncle for me and VV Putin with his oligarchs.

                        Quote: Rider
                        what excuses?
                        Do you consider the GREATEST VICTORY IN HISTORY - WITHOUT ?!

                        In your case, YES.
                        Quote: Rider
                        is everything okay with your head?

                        Well, compared to you, everything is just fine.
                        Quote: Rider
                        so it’s just you in the “span”, and bring you new “arguments”

                        Well, be courageous and admit your next defeat. Although you can try to prove that Medveputy / Putin Medvedydy try to build communism)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        so did he want to change power or not?
                        then say there was no threat of cutting? how so)))

                        Quote: Rider
                        so can you begin to answer ARGUMENTED, and not verbiage?

                        Why are you blaming me for your sins? Verbiage is your hobby. For now, I’m writing all arguments with facts.
                      5. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 19: 06 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Strange, but someone else’s uncle for me and VV Putin with his oligarchs.


                        brilliantly!
                        GDP wants to destroy the Ukrainians as a people.
                        this is an example of logic.
                        Quote: Kars
                        In your case, YES.

                        Well, in your case, the example of the RYA and the Crimean, and even from the category - nothing.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, be courageous and admit your next defeat.

                        you beg me not to kick you in your absurdities?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, compared to you, everything is just fine.

                        I’ll honestly say how many your posts have not been read - I didn’t notice.
                        but happy for you.
                        Quote: Kars
                        then say there was no threat of cutting? how so)))

                        but does foreign control bring benefits to the people?
                        in other matters, in your case, probably so, it is not in vain that Ukraine is in a hurry to delegate its EU rights, including on the primacy of European laws over intra-Ukrainian ones.
                        I congratulate you, soon you will ask this question to your "rulers"

                        and by the way, did I even say a word about medveputov?
                        you kind of decided to argue ARGUMENTALLY, it's time to start.
                        Quote: Kars
                        REV, PMV, Crimean lost, despite the fact that they were .. together.

                        and even more were won.
                        probably you have not heard about the Balkan wars, both Turkish and Caucasian.

                        Do you consider the RIAV and Crimea - an ARGUMENT?
                        so why don't you consider other wars an argument?

                        INITIALLY, the point of the argument was that the PEOPLE'S WARs where our peoples were together, we were associated with success.
                        you brought as an “argument” the wars waged by the STATE, and which did not become PEOPLE.

                        this actually caused my counter-post.
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 14 September 2013 20: 57 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Rider
                        brilliantly!
                        GDP wants to destroy the Ukrainians as a people.

                        And who wants according to yours? And who knows his Putin what he wants. And the logic excuse me iron.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, in your case, the example of the RYA and the Crimean, and even from the category - nothing.

                        An example of the loss of the Russian Empire by the prison of peoples under the fifth of the Romanov Germans.

                        Quote: Rider
                        you beg me not to kick you in your absurdities?
                        No, it’s just not a disgrace.

                        Quote: Rider
                        I’ll honestly say how many your posts have not been read - I didn’t notice.

                        Well, maybe get smarter, re-read later - and it will reach you.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but does foreign control bring benefits to the people?
                        Well, the autocracy is also not a pound of raisins, by the way, the serfdom right to vet has not yet been canceled? Then?

                        Quote: Rider
                        in other matters, in your case, probably so, it is not in vain that Ukraine is in a hurry to delegate its EU rights

                        By the way, what rights does Ukraine delegate by association?

                        Quote: Rider
                        I congratulate you, soon you will ask this question to your "rulers"
                        Do you think European laws are worse than Ukrainian?

                        Quote: Rider
                        and by the way, did I even say a word about medveputov?

                        And what is Russia someone else steers? Maybe still tell the Slovens))))
                        Quote: Rider
                        and more were won

                        What are these from the 1850 year then?
                        Quote: Rider
                        probably you have not heard about the Balkan wars, both Turkish and Caucasian.

                        Well, as there wasn’t any strait, but in the Caucasus the war is still going on, they pay tribute to Kadyrov.))
                        Quote: Rider
                        Do you consider the RIAV and Crimea - an ARGUMENT?
                        so why don't you consider other wars an argument?

                        which for example?

                        Quote: Rider
                        INITIALLY, the point of the argument was that the PEOPLE'S WARs where our peoples were together, we were associated with success.
                        Well, there weren’t any such ones. Even the Patriotic 1812 of the year does not fit this parameter - it’s only part of the Napoleonic Wars where the Republic of Ingushetia suffered not frail defeats, with heavy losses. .

                        Quote: Rider
                        this actually caused my counter-post.

                        what to say in vain you climbed it in vain
                      7. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 21: 46 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        And who wants your way? And

                        yes there was such a character - alozych was called, but in fact for you it is just "excuses"
                        Quote: Kars

                        An example of the loss of the Russian Empire by the prison of peoples under the fifth of the Romanov Germans.

                        But what about the victories in the Northern War? in turkish and balkan wars
                        WHO THEN LEADED THE COUNTRY?
                        RURIKOVICHI 7

                        and you still say something about logic?
                        Quote: Kars
                        No, it’s just not a disgrace.
                        to anyone who read your previous paragraph (about the heel of the Romanov Germans) it is clear which of us is dishonored
                        Quote: Kars
                        What are these from the 1850 year then?


                        both on !
                        and what before this period of war are not considered?
                        like they were making fun
                        WHO WILL BE DISAPPOINTED ?!
                        WHO SPEAKS ABOUT LOGIC ?!
                        Well, yes, but I thought you were smarter.
                        wrong.
                        Quote: Kars

                        Well, as there wasn’t any strait, but in the Caucasus the war is still going on, they pay tribute to Kadyrov.))

                        and what?
                        why is the Balkan war considered lost?
                        Well, in the Caucasus and tribute.
                        Imagine Russia not only pays tribute to the Caucasus, but also to the Tuva Komi and other federal subjects.
                        Recently, subsidies have been provided.
                        but I didn’t know that Moscow lost the war to Vladivostok.

                        by the way, “Caucasian wars” I had in mind the Russian / Turkish and Russian / Iranian wars for the Caucasus.
                        but you probably don’t know about them, and you think that everything came down to Chechnya.
                        Quote: Kars
                        which for example?

                        You are probably blind. I have mentioned the Russian / Turkish and other wars so many times.
                        but you see only read about those where Russia lost.
                        where (albeit not logic) but at least observation?
                        however, who am I asking.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, such, in principle, was not

                        Well, for sure - it wasn’t, you just asked for it under the wing of the Russian Tsar.
                        apparently you liked that you were traded Krymchaks, and considered the Poles for cattle.
                        you had to immediately join France or immediately to America, ahh yeah, it didn’t exist then.
                        Well, they would have suffered nothing for a couple of centuries, whether the trouble is great.

                        WOULD THESE WARS WERE NOT PEOPLE SO WIT?
                        and WWII was not there either.
                        Quote: Kars
                        what to say in vain you climbed it in vain

                        Well, now everyone can see the GREATNESS of your "logic"
                        you do not get lost

                        I am always at your service.
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 14 September 2013 22: 08 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Rider
                        yes there was such a character - alozych called

                        But when was it? Not talking about the fact that he had already died))))) are you scaring the dead?
                        Quote: Rider
                        But what about the victories in the Northern War? in turkish and balkan wars

                        Asked you from 1850 year.

                        Quote: Rider
                        and you still say something about logic?

                        You learn to read, and then talk about logic)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, yes, but I thought you were smarter.
                        wrong.

                        this is your second time writing))) it’s hard for you to be hard-to-reach)) and the mistake is your second I.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and what?
                        why is the Balkan war considered lost?
                        Naturally, they just poured over the soldiers' blood cap, but they did not achieve their goals, even though they made a face mine.

                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, in the Caucasus and tribute.
                        Imagine Russia not only pays tribute to the Caucasus, but also to the Tuva Komi and other federal subjects.
                        Recently, subsidies have been provided.
                        but I didn’t know that Moscow lost the war to Vladivostok
                        About tribute to Chechnya, of course, it’s hard for you to urge, still keep watching Kadyrov who killed the Russians)))

                        Quote: Rider
                        You are probably blind. I have mentioned the Russian / Turkish and other wars so many times.

                        Don't you see just being overtaking)) since 1850 year you were asked))
                        Quote: Rider
                        WHO WILL BE DISAPPOINTED ?!
                        WHO SPEAKS ABOUT LOGIC ?!
                        are you disgraced, and is caps a hysteria?


                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, for sure - it wasn’t, you just asked for it under the wing of the Russian Tsar

                        then there was a popular war?))) well
                        Quote: Rider
                        apparently you liked that you were traded Krymchaks, and considered the Poles for cattle.

                        then Muscovites, serfdom, and the dispersal of the Zaporizhzhya Sich did it.

                        Quote: Rider
                        WOULD THESE WARS WERE NOT PEOPLE SO WIT?

                        Which ones? And can the Ukrainians struggle with the Poles. Tatars. Muscovites and the war was non-native. But where did the Moscow tsars? For them it was a war for influence and territory.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, now everyone can see the GREATNESS of your "logic"
                        let them be convinced, but you have a good shame. You have mixed so many different snowstorms.

                        Quote: Rider
                        I am always at your service.

                        laughter prolongs life.
                      9. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 22: 28 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Yes, when was it?

                        well yes, it doesn’t count
                        your selective memory.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Asked you from 1850 year.

                        and before that there were showdowns in the children's sandbox?
                        and someone else is talking about logic ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        are you disgraced, and is caps a hysteria?

                        this is an attempt to find logic in your fabrications, but apparently in vain.
                        Quote: Kars
                        then Muscovites, serfdom, and the dispersal of the Zaporizhzhya Sich did it.

                        Yes Yes
                        and mass executions, and sale in markets, and raids from which depopulated entire regions
                        and all this BLOODY MSCALS.
                        so I didn’t understand, but why did they ask for it?
                        it turns out so - how bad it is - "save the little brothers"
                        but how unnecessary they became - "went to the invaders."
                        now I seem to begin to understand the Ukrainian "logic"
                        Quote: Kars
                        let them be convinced

                        so I say, let them know an example of independent thinking
                        Quote: Kars
                        laughter prolongs life

                        reading your verses is not hard to believe
                      10. Kars
                        Kars 14 September 2013 22: 41 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Rider
                        well yes, it doesn’t count
                        your selective memory.
                        Are you really so strange? We are talking in principle about the future, and not about the past.
                        Quote: Rider
                        GDP wants to destroy the Ukrainians as a people.

                        Quote: Kars
                        And who wants according to yours? And who knows his Putin what he wants. And the logic excuse me iron

                        Do you understand what is written here? Want.a not HotL)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        and before that there were showdowns in the children's sandbox?
                        and someone else is talking about logic ...

                        I gave you a simple time frame, which is not so far historically, and more or less modern. The industrial revolution has already begun, and so on.
                        Quote: Rider
                        this is an attempt to find logic in your fabrications, but apparently in vain.

                        No, it’s a hysteria when you cannot show the logic in your words, and get out as you can, without answering questions, jumping over with that.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes Yes
                        and mass executions, and sale in markets, and raids from which depopulated entire regions
                        and all this BLOODY MSCALS.

                        Well, you don’t have to exaggerate, although you can’t put yourself out any more stupidly, but they waged war with the Crimean Khanate, they also beat them. At that time they were like that. Not for nothing.
                        Quote: Rider
                        it turns out so - how bad it is - "save the little brothers"

                        Well, this, in principle, was not, you are exaggerating again.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but how unnecessary they became - "went to the invaders."

                        Well, you deceived, and did not comply with the terms of the Pereyaslovskaya parliament, still say that serfdom was not entered on the Ukrainian territory, no liberties were abolished - but I didn’t understand this topic much, you want to read something.
                        Quote: Rider
                        so I say, let them know an example of independent thinking

                        so I don’t mind, let them look at you, I just can’t take your remarks as thinking, here is another sectrack from yours, so it was ombaked so that it thinks that the Republic of Ingushetia won the war in Krymskub, your type))
                        Quote: Rider
                        reading your verses is not hard to believe
                        You found rhymes in me)))
                      11. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 23: 04 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        We are talking in principle about the future, and not about the past.

                        well, precisely selective logic, which contradicts logic, then discard
                        it was originally about the People’s War, in which our peoples fought side by side.
                        but it’s too difficult for you to see.
                        therefore, you distance yourself from this.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Do you understand what is written here? Want.a not HotL)))


                        does it change anything ?
                        in the course you compared the "Wishlist" of GDP and alozych, do you think they are identical?
                        wonderful thoughts are independent.
                        Quote: Kars
                        I gave you a simple time frame

                        BEYOND this framework of history does not exist?
                        again you adjust the answer to the conditions of the problem, then I see, then I don’t see?
                        defeat in the Crimean war - I see, I do not notice the victory of 1812 point-blank.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well do not exaggerate

                        Indeed, why exaggerate you just need to state the fact that the Ukrainians rushed from the Krymchaks to the Poles, from those and those regularly raking.
                        as a result, we chose Moscow.
                        Quote: Kars
                        but I especially did not understand this topic, if you want to read something.

                        so you read, and find out that the laws in force throughout the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia have spread on the lands of Ukraine.
                        Quote: Kars
                        so I do not mind, let them look

                        I don't mind either
                        Well, according to the Kr war, and how much land Russia lost while fighting ALONE against the FOUR powers.
                        at the same time repelling the attack on Solovki in Kranstadt and Kamchatka?
                        and all political dividends, RI later returned thanks to the efforts of Chancellor Gorchakov ABSOLUTELY PEACE WAY.

                        you would have such "losses"
                        Quote: Kars
                        You found rhymes in me)))

                        God be with them, with rhymes
                        I did not find your LOGIC.
                        you accept one and deny the other.
                        just like in the movie: I remember here, I won’t get it.
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 14 September 2013 23: 16 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Rider
                        well, it’s like selective logic,

                        You’re not exactly strange))) I gave specific quotes, and all your nonsense where you already confused anything)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        does it change anything ?
                        in the course you compared the "Wishlist" of GDP and alozych, do you think they are identical?

                        )))))) Well, not a strange type)))))
                        Quote: Rider
                        well, if you agree to be untermanent, to send your children to slaves and land to someone else’s uncle,

                        Quote: Kars
                        Strange, but someone else’s uncle for me and VV Putin with his oligarchs.
                        )))) you would stop drinking there)) but you don’t remember what you raved about.

                        Quote: Rider
                        BEYOND this framework of history does not exist?

                        Do you want to dig a king of peas)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        defeat in the Crimean war - I see, I do not notice the victory of 1812 point-blank.

                        Well, there was a technological breakthrough, it wasn’t so convenient to bombard each other with the appearance of rifled weapons. And I already wrote about the 1812 war

                        Quote: Kars
                        It happened. Even the Patriotic 1812 of the year does not fit this parameter - it is only part of the Napoleonic Wars where the Republic of Ingushetia suffered not frail defeats, with heavy losses. And you should not invent something from the presence of ..partisan .. movement.


                        Quote: Rider
                        the fact that Ukrainians rushed from the Krymchaks to the Poles, from those and those regularly raking.
                        as a result, we chose Moscow.
                        threw themselves. Well, the choice was not very rich to regret.
                      13. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 23: 35 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        You're not exactly weird)

                        and it says a person who does not care what will happen to his country?
                        which Wishlist Pu is worse than the protectorate of Ukraine.
                        which of us is strange?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Do you want to dig a king of peas)))


                        Well, why to a pea, enough to the Russian / Turkish troops 1877-78gg
                        as a result, Turkey lost Bulgaria to Serbia.
                        and Russia overcame part of the Black Sea coast of the Caucasus.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Quote: Kars
                        even the Patriotic War of 1812 does not fit this parameter - this is only part of the Napoleonic Wars where the Republic of Ingushetia suffered not frail defeats, with heavy losses. And to start inventing something ...


                        here is how?
                        is it now so in Ukraine history is taught?
                        turns out to be RI in LOSING France.
                        you have not only logic, but also an alternative story.
                        Quote: Kars
                        threw themselves. Well, the choice was not very rich to regret

                        so metal, would wait a couple of centuries, and join directly to the citadel of democracy.

                        the truth by that time and the people you might not have left, but such are the excesses of independence (from the brain)
                      14. Kars
                        Kars 14 September 2013 23: 49 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Rider
                        who doesn’t care what will happen to his country?

                        Where did I write this? Will you be able to make a quote? Or have you wandered at all?
                        Quote: Rider
                        which Wishlist Pu is worse than the protectorate of Ukraine.

                        Whose protectorate? Who is going to protect us ..?
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, why to a pea, enough to the Russian / Turkish troops 1877-78gg
                        as a result, Turkey lost Bulgaria to Serbia.
                        and Russia overcame part of the Black Sea coast of the Caucasus.
                        Well, a great victory)) over Turkey itself)) there was probably a popular war? And the British got Cyprus)) without losing a single person.

                        Quote: Rider
                        here is how?
                        is it now so in Ukraine history is taught?

                        I don’t know, if you are interested, find a textbook.
                        Quote: Rider
                        turns out to be RI in LOSING France.
                        you have not only logic, but also an alternative story.

                        And now ... logical .. give a quote where I wrote that RI lost to France or are you poorly reading? And not about the lost battles involving RI troops? Maybe RI also fought with Napoleonic France individually?
                        Quote: Rider
                        so metal, would wait a couple of centuries, and join directly to the citadel of democracy.

                        It's not meant to be.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but these are excesses of independence (from the brain)

                        Are you from personal experience?
                      15. Rider
                        Rider 14 September 2013 23: 55 New
                        0
                        I propose starting a new discussion thread below.
                        it is inconvenient to answer in a narrow-kart version.
                2. Kars
                  Kars 14 September 2013 23: 16 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Rider
                  so you read, and find out that the laws in force throughout the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia have spread on the lands of Ukraine.

                  fact that cheated.
                  Quote: Rider
                  Well, according to the Kr war, and how much land Russia lost while fighting ALONE against the FOUR powers.

                  So did you win?
                  Quote: Rider
                  and all political dividends, RI later returned thanks to the efforts of Chancellor Gorchakov ABSOLUTELY PEACE WAY.

                  Didn’t you lose?
                  Quote: Rider
                  you would have such "losses"
                  no thanks

                  Quote: Rider
                  God be with them, with rhymes
                  I did not find your LOGIC.
                  Well this is not surprising. And you find the logic)) this is not even funny.

                  Quote: Rider
                  you accept one and deny the other.
                  just like in the movie: I remember here, I won’t get it.

                  Well, for example? I remember very well that I set the time frame, but you started to dodge like a frying pan.
                3. Rider
                  Rider 14 September 2013 23: 51 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kars

                  fact that cheated.


                  the fact that under the wing came round.
                  Quote: Kars
                  So did you win?

                  Didn’t you lose?

                  no thanks

                  the fact is that she lost so much that she did not lose a meter of her land.
                  and returned political influence with interest.
                  and certainly YOU only dream about such defeats
                  What should be the historiography of the Square?
                  victory at Konotop?
                  just shine.
                  Quote: Kars
                  Well this is not surprising. And you find the logic)) this is not even funny.

                  Well, why, I am very pleased to dunk you in your ignorance.
                  and as for logic - you are right, you do not observe it.
                  Quote: Kars
                  Kars (3) UA Today, 18: 28 ↑

                  this is an elementary excuse, WWII won, the rest lost.

                  please indicate BEFORE the time frame

                  and about the "victory after 1850"
                  Russian Turkish 1877-78gg will do.
                  or it does not pass in the textbooks of Ukraine?

                  I see that the snake in the pan was pressed to the nail.
                  start dodging.
                4. Kars
                  Kars 15 September 2013 00: 00 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Rider
                  the fact that under the wing came round.

                  Well, they believed the promises, and, unfortunately, they didn’t receive war at once with everyone.
                  Quote: Rider
                  the fact is that she lost so much that she did not lose a meter of her land.

                  Really?
                  Russia returned the southern part of Bessarabia, lost after the Crimean War, and annexed the Kars region, populated by Armenians and Georgians.
                  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D1%82%D1%83%D

                  1%80%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0_(1877%E2%80%94

                  1878)#.D0.9E.D0.B1.D1.89.D0.B0.D1.8F_.D1.81.D0.B8.D1.82.D1.83.D0.B0.D1.86.D0.B8.

                  D1.8F_.D0.B8_.D0.BF.D0.BB.D0.B0.D0.BD.D1.8B_.D1.81.D1.82.D0.BE.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.BD


                  Quote: Rider
                  and certainly YOU only dream about such defeats

                  In principle, to dream of any defeats is the lot of losers like you. Who already lost the Crimean War for quite a while)))
                  Quote: Rider
                  I mean proud historiography
                  I am personally proud that we gained independence bloodlessly, and there were no civil wars in our territory.

                  Quote: Rider
                  Well, why, I am very pleased to dunk you in your ignorance.

                  Dur - eny riches with a thought)))
                  Quote: Rider
                  and about the "victory after 1850"
                  Russian Turkish 1877-78gg will do.
                  no, in principle, it won’t work - it’s weak for such a huge Russian empire, if they would take Istanbul, another thing, the straits there.

                  Quote: Rider
                  I see that the snake in the pan was pressed to the nail.
                  start dodging.

                  you buy glasses there, well, or wipe the monitor from saliva, otherwise you can hardly see it.
                5. Rider
                  Rider 15 September 2013 00: 41 New
                  0
                  The answer is below.
          2. Kars
            Kars 14 September 2013 23: 18 New
            +2
            And yes, purely out of black envy))))))
          3. svp67
            svp67 14 September 2013 23: 26 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            And yes, purely out of black envy))))))

            Are we all cursing? And in Russia there is still gas - then, what will envy become “blue”? )))))
          4. Kars
            Kars 14 September 2013 23: 31 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            And in Russia there is still gas - then, what will envy become “blue”? )))))

            Generally colorless.
          5. svp67
            svp67 14 September 2013 23: 33 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            Generally colorless.
            Already smiled ...
          6. Kars
            Kars 14 September 2013 23: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            Already smiled ...

            I’m trying. I don’t really understand the engines of tanks. GTD, Diesel, here comes the know-it-alls and guardians of Ukraine to drive.
          7. svp67
            svp67 14 September 2013 23: 54 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            comes here
            It is clear ... "indulge in plushies ..." Well, God help you. By the way, have you seen the Chinese model T64B? I'm in shock, and only one question - why?
          8. Kars
            Kars 15 September 2013 10: 19 New
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            By the way, have you seen the Chinese model T64B? I'm in shock, and only one question - why?

            Why is 500 hryvnia worth? Or what?
            I personally am going to take as I complete the T-62 Syrian.

            I had BV Skifovsky, I gave it to his children for destruction.
          9. svp67
            svp67 16 September 2013 09: 49 New
            +1
            Why it is expensive, after personal communication I understand, I WHY they and not Russia or Ukraine ...
          10. Kars
            Kars 16 September 2013 10: 09 New
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            I WHY they and not Russia or Ukraine ...

            Why aren’t they ours? I don’t even know - especially after the release of the T-90A from the mengue, and its comparison with the Star.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 14 September 2013 20: 43 New
    0
    Quote: Kars
    I can still remember the Crimean War.

    Well, they definitely didn’t lose Krymskaya, announce the list of losses as a result of the “lost” war!
    1. Kars
      Kars 14 September 2013 22: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Setrac
      Well, they definitely didn’t lose Krymskaya, announce the list of losses as a result of the “lost” war

      Well, they just decided not to keep the navy in the Black Sea from winning, and all that.
  • Radoslav
    Radoslav 14 September 2013 17: 49 New
    0
    The Russian Army did not lose the First World War, again read the story, General Brusilov in 1916 defeated the Austro-Hungarian and German troops and the Austro-Hungarian empire was on the verge of surrender. and you know who the Jewish Bolsheviks helped them, and the venality of the Jewish Russian Duma,
    1. Kars
      Kars 14 September 2013 17: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: Radoslav
      The Russian Army did not lose the First World War, again read the story,

      Really? Took Berlin and Vienna? Participated in the Treaty of Versailles as a victorious country?
      Quote: Radoslav
      and you know who the Jewish Bolsheviks helped them, and the venality of the Jewish Russian Duma,

      Of course, even the Euro-Bolsheviks organized a shell hunger, and of course the defeat of 1914, and of course it was they who generally dragged RI into this not very necessary war.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 14 September 2013 20: 47 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        Really? Took Berlin and Vienna?

        Did the Germans and Austrians take Moscow? Yes you are raving.
  • Egoza
    Egoza 14 September 2013 16: 59 New
    +4
    Quote: Radoslav
    then we were together therefore and won.

    The true truth! Only now there should be a war INFORMATION !!!! PROMOTIONAL !!!! And then it will reach people. Well, if the inhabitants of Ukraine (we won’t wait from the government) will turn to Russia with a request to protect them from the Americans and Europe - then on tanks. BEFORE you have to be smarter! And more skillful!
    1. Radoslav
      Radoslav 14 September 2013 18: 08 New
      +1
      not b
      Quote: Radoslav
      The Russian Army did not lose the First World War, again read the story, General Brusilov in 1916 defeated the Austro-Hungarian and German troops and the Austro-Hungarian empire was on the verge of surrender. and you know who the Jewish Bolsheviks helped them, and the venality of the Jewish Russian Duma,
      1. Kars
        Kars 14 September 2013 18: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Radoslav
        not b

        not g?
        Quote: Kars
        Really? Took Berlin and Vienna? Participated in the Treaty of Versailles as a victorious country?

        Quote: Kars
        Of course, even the Euro-Bolsheviks organized a shell hunger, and of course the defeat of 1914, and of course it was they who generally dragged RI into this not very necessary war.
  • stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 14 September 2013 14: 25 New
    11
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: Radoslav
    It is necessary to introduce Russian troops into Southeastern Ukraine, before it is too late, the population of these regions support
    I personally promise support, I won’t show much. That I haven’t heard from any citizens of neighboring and not so countries about the desire to send troops to Ukraine, except for .. brothers .. from the Russian Federation)))


    My dear Kars and Cristall! My dear Ukrainian brothers and sisters!

    No need to react so nervously to the performances of the hamsters-provocateurs.
    Each of us who comes here to the forum, on both sides of the border, and not only that, perfectly understands that our opinion can make little difference. Everything is being decided today in Kiev, Moscow and Brussels.
    Many of us have family ties both in Ukraine and in Russia.
    And God forbid that everything would be decided to mutual agreement and pleasure.
    Good luck!
    hi
    1. Rider
      Rider 14 September 2013 15: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      Everything is being decided today in Kiev, Moscow and Brussels.


      I'm sorry that I fit into your (no doubt) noble speech.
      but DECISE today in Moscow and Brussels.
      and in Kiev they just figure out (out of selfish motives) who they will join.

      once again I apologize for having messed up the light impulse of the soul

      hi
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 14 September 2013 20: 31 New
        +5
        Quote: Rider
        I'm sorry that I fit into your (no doubt) noble speech.


        Having our own opinion, as well as expressing it, is perhaps the only thing we can do here without problems.
        I don’t like much in Kars’s statements (and not only him), but I don’t see any sense in conducting verbal battles.

        At the beginning of 90's, I didn’t like that we were "divided", divided, disconnected ...
        Every time we go to my mother-in-law to Ukraine, I want to spit that due to the ambitions of the three eccentrics to the letter M, I have to work to satisfy the needs of officials on both sides where there was none at all.
        hi
    2. Radoslav
      Radoslav 14 September 2013 15: 26 New
      +2
      But understand the Slavic brothers from Little Russia, we will not live together Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, they will crush us one by one, and we will not be like nations, do you really not want to see reality. Or, indeed, Judeo-Jews are on the site, and the descendants of the unfinished Bendera, though I don’t want to believe it
      1. Rider
        Rider 14 September 2013 15: 38 New
        +5
        Quote: Radoslav
        Yes, understand the brothers Slavs from Little Russia,


        take it easy uv ivan.
        I am impressed by your point of view, but events unfold so that only after choking on the nostrils of "free choice" Ukrainians and / or maloros will begin to understand where the "elites" dragged them
        and if it is taken for granted that in the next 5 years it will become very hot on the ball, then it can come to the Polish-Romanian occupation.
        then the “independent Ukrainian” will scratch the pumpkin and begin to distinguish a friend from an enemy.
        remember how Ukraine’s annexation to Russia went on, it’s so gorgeous and will be the second time.

        alas.

        and you want to start with the Russian invasion.

        everything has its time.
        1. xan
          xan 15 September 2013 01: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Rider
          and you want to start with the Russian invasion.

          everything has its time.

          agree
          this is not our method
          rip the ripened fruit
  • Che Guevara
    Che Guevara 14 September 2013 15: 17 New
    +1
    Do not pay attention, there are enough goblins everywhere. Come visit, I will take fishing in the mountains. Holidays are better than in Switzerland
  • Setrac
    Setrac 14 September 2013 20: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    I personally promise support, I won’t show much. That I haven’t heard from any citizens of neighboring and not so countries about the desire to send troops to Ukraine, except for .. brothers .. from the Russian Federation)))

    Romania, Germany, Poland, enough for a start?
    1. Kars
      Kars 15 September 2013 10: 17 New
      +4
      Quote: Setrac
      Romania, Germany, Poland, enough for a start?

      When is Germany. Poland and Romania proposed to send troops to the territory of the independent state of Ukraine?
  • artem772
    artem772 14 September 2013 20: 42 New
    +1
    Support will be no worse than in Poland in 1920 or in Finland in 1939. Not much will seem.
    1. xan
      xan 15 September 2013 01: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: artem772
      Support will be no worse than in Poland in 1920 or in Finland in 1939. Not much will seem.

      So what, did it help Poland or Finland?
      And secondly, we don’t need all of Ukraine, we need Russian lands with Russian people, you’re invaders there
  • Orik
    Orik 14 September 2013 10: 21 New
    10
    Guys, we are the ONE people. All runs that separate us are created consciously. Do not be fooled by this.
    1. Dimka off
      Dimka off 14 September 2013 11: 14 New
      +7
      I confirm - we are a single Russian people. And Ukraine was created as a project for the collapse of Russia.
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 14 September 2013 10: 24 New
    10
    What can I say about Ukraine, when in Russia everything is going to knock out the concept of Russian from the minds of people, to etch out all the principles and features that determined the Russian person. Here is a lot of writing and talking about the revival of the Russians, but let's define what it means to be Russian? what to strive for, with whom to take an example especially young. There is nothing, everyone has been erased, deleted, now it’s only fashionable to shout that one should be Russian, and which one? almost nobody knows this.
  • krpmlws
    krpmlws 14 September 2013 10: 34 New
    +4
    In my mind there are no divisions, we are all Russian. I think the less we will procrastinate different names, the better it will be for all of us. Given the situation in which, unfortunately, we live in different states, we can use the concepts of Western Russians, southern Russians and Eastern Russians. For the territory: Western, Southern and Eastern Russia.
    1. Dimka off
      Dimka off 14 September 2013 11: 15 New
      +4
      Quote: krpmlws
      I think the less we loot various names, the better it will be for all of us.

      in western Ukraine they don’t think so. And in the West in general, too. This is an information war.
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 14 September 2013 10: 38 New
    +4
    The article voiced only the topic of the German footprint in the separation of Ukrainians from Russians. And the biggest contribution to this matter was made by the Soviet government, under the leadership of Lazar Moiseevich Kaganovich, who led this process, being the first secretary of the CPSU (b) of Ukraine.
    1. Dimka off
      Dimka off 14 September 2013 11: 15 New
      +4
      more Poles and Austrians.
      1. not good
        not good 14 September 2013 12: 22 New
        +1
        And the territory arrived thanks to the unforgettable maize-Nikita Sergeevich.
  • Andrey57
    Andrey57 14 September 2013 10: 49 New
    +3
    Yes, there is no need for any Russian troops in Ukraine, on the contrary, let them do what they want, but without gas discounts and strict rules at customs, with the unconditional protection of the economic interests of the Customs Union - if in Ukraine you’re with your own mustache, then the relationship between Ukraine and Russia should be the same as in Russia and the EU. The only question is how much Ukrainian industry will last with a sharp restriction of sales markets in the CU countries. But then the Ukrainians themselves will figure it out with whom they feel good and with whom they are not on their way. All the same rhetorical option - it doesn’t reach through the head, it will reach another place where a wonderful adventure in the form of an FTA with the EU will be found, especially since in the EU immediately, “on the shore”, they said that Ukraine’s EU membership does not shine by definition.
    1. dredge
      dredge 14 September 2013 11: 40 New
      +4
      They still can’t figure it out among themselves. They are divided among themselves again according to the territorial basis. Zapadentsi and left-bank. And all because they gave a finger to bite, and grabbed their hand to their elbows. I want to say. Now they hate themselves.
    2. So_o_tozh
      So_o_tozh 15 September 2013 01: 40 New
      +1
      She would have been better off at her own discount ... Don’t you just think: Ukraine receives gas at 440 dollars. + 100dol. type a discount for rent Black Sea Fleet = 550 dollars. Moreover, buying gas more than anyone else in Europe ... HERMANIA receives gas at 350 dollars, but you plowed on daragy scattered.
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 15 September 2013 04: 59 New
        0
        well, if Ukraine hadn’t torn money for rent in Sevastopol, by the way a truly Russian city from the very beginning. even if she didn’t pay so much for gas, if she hadn’t helped the Georgians kill Russian peacekeepers and pilots, then everything could have been different. And so it turns out, I'll substitute a leg for you, and you give me fat for free.
  • Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 14 September 2013 10: 53 New
    +6
    Quote: Orik
    Guys, we are the ONE people. All runs that separate us are created consciously. Do not be fooled by this.

    You're right !!! Someday Ukraine will understand that it is necessary to look for friends not in the West, but in Russia, and then our countries will again become united and invincible, to evil enemies!
  • Forest
    Forest 14 September 2013 10: 54 New
    +3
    You can write about the intrigues of yesterday for a long time, but when the Muller-Miller begins to shut off gas to Ukraine or Belarus, it is impossible to understand. After all, 3 brotherly nations are so fortified with family ties that it is difficult to find families who have no relatives in Ukraine and Belarus.
    And when these "tricks of the mühlers" happen, we perceive them with the same hatred.
    Brothers Slavs do not forget their roots.
    1. Dimka off
      Dimka off 14 September 2013 11: 18 New
      10
      Quote: Forest
      After all, 3 fraternal peoples

      I’m not brothers, but one people - Russian, inhabitants of great Russia.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 14 September 2013 11: 24 New
        +9
        Quote: Dimka off
        I’m not brothers, but one people - Russian, inhabitants of great Russia.

        That's right!
        And what to expect from the inhabitants of Ukraine, when the inhabitants of Russia themselves consider the Ukrainians "Brothers" and do not understand that they share a part of themselves.
        Call the Siberians the fraternal Siberian people, what kind of Russians are these?
        Siberians, this is the 4th fraternal Slavic people.
        Complete nonsense!
        Great Russians, Little Russians, Belarusians = Russians.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 14 September 2013 18: 14 New
          +4
          Well said!
      2. Forest
        Forest 14 September 2013 16: 33 New
        +1
        We can not disagree.
  • AK-47
    AK-47 14 September 2013 10: 56 New
    12
    ... neither the “moderate” Russophobe Taras Shevchenko, nor the “terry” Lesya Ukrainka have such terms as “Ukrainian”, “Ukrainian nation”, but there are Slavs, Little Russians, and Rusyns.

    "Ukraine, or Little Russia, is called a vast space, connected to the colossus of Russia and consisting of the provinces of Chernihiv, Kiev, Kharkov and Podolsk ...." Excerpt from "Essay on the History of Ukraine" written by A.S. Pushkin in 1831. (Pushkin A.S. Essay on the History of Ukraine // Pushkin A.S. Complete Works: In 10 vols. - L .: Nauka. Leningrad. Department, 1977-1979).
    Bismarck was born in 1815.
    1. creak
      creak 14 September 2013 11: 15 New
      10
      Yak, die
      mene on the grave
      mid-steppe wide
      IN UKRAINE Miles ...
      TG Shevchenko, poem: "Retains."
      The last line is about how to write:
      "in Ukraine or in Ukraine."
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 14 September 2013 11: 29 New
        +6
        Quote: ranger
        in UKRAINE miles ...

        tick "IN UKRAINE", but not in ...
        UKRAINE at that time is a territorial term, and Ukrainian is like Tulyak, Moskvich, Belgorodets, means belonging to this territory, not nationality.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 14 September 2013 17: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: ATATA
          "IN UKRAINE"

          Just in the text - IN UKRAINE. It is often omitted - and th, respectively, and the stress is tolerated, but this is a big difference!
        2. So_o_tozh
          So_o_tozh 15 September 2013 01: 48 New
          +2
          Yes fto fy gavarite, tell it to Taras Grigorovich -Our Ukraine

          Love її ... During the lute, (Love her ... At a dashing hour)

          I'll stay a hard minute (Last hard minute)

          For her gentlemen pray (For her gentlemen pray)
    2. Algor73
      Algor73 15 September 2013 11: 34 New
      +1
      Something was not heard that Pushkin is a historian, although I went to school even for the USSR. But one thing is clear that the division into brothers (older, younger, cousins, etc.) will not lead to anything good. More than 20 years have passed, citizens live in their states, over the years, state ownership has already taken root. Both for a Russian citizen, his homeland is Russia, for a Belarusian - Belarus, and for a Ukrainian - Ukraine. And all negative statements leave a negative aftertaste for that nation, behind whose wet “brother” hid.
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 14 September 2013 10: 59 New
    +3
    originally from Kiev, always smiled at me that the Russians are in Russia, and the Ukrainians in Kievan Rus, Russia are mostly called the outskirts)))
    1. Che Guevara
      Che Guevara 14 September 2013 15: 22 New
      +2
      Well, that was from the 9th century to the 15th. A large half of the history of Russia.
  • Larus
    Larus 14 September 2013 11: 03 New
    +3
    An excellent article, it’s a pity that such articles, and programs, don’t go to mass space.
  • kirpich
    kirpich 14 September 2013 11: 13 New
    +5
    As GVF Hegel said, “History repeats itself twice, once in the form of tragedy, another in the form of farce.” The tragedy of our peoples already existed (1917-1921). Now there is a farce. The three “former” republics present some unthinkable claims to each other. Someone who stole gas, someone who delivered potassium to someone. Is it really not clear that our leaders are fighting for AUTHORITY?
    For some reason, it seems to me that another ten years will pass and this farce will end. And we will come to a common denominator -
    [img] http: // http: //images.yandex.ru/yandsearch? source = wiz & text = picture together we are invincible & noreask = 1 & img_url = http: //cs9968.userapi.com/u99076551/14585
    5938/s_38dab955.jpg&pos=9&rpt=simage&lr=213&nojs=1[/img]
  • saag
    saag 14 September 2013 11: 15 New
    +1
    Quote: ZU-23
    originally from Kiev, always smiled at me that the Russians are in Russia, and the Ukrainians in Kievan Rus, Russia are mostly called the outskirts)))

    No, everything is right with the outskirts, you are of course Russia, but that's just Kiev, well, as the province is indicated here. it’s just that the majority makes the first word (Kievskaya) emphasis without thinking about the meaning of the sound and it was formed after Russia, Mr. Veliky Novgorod :-)
    1. ZU-23
      ZU-23 14 September 2013 11: 34 New
      0
      as if history is not an exact science, I myself use facts only, the great Novgorod is officially 1150 years old, but rumor has it that it’s 1500 years old and officially 1850 years old, Kiev even has a museum with the bones of primitive people, so I just need to understand where I came from Russian people)))
      1. Imperial
        Imperial 14 September 2013 12: 15 New
        +2
        ZU-23 RU there is even a museum with the bones of primitive people, so I just need to understand where the Russian people came from))) ====================== =============================================== Strength
        Well, the last argument, well, G.Vladimir was recently counted for 1000 years, and if you consider what you think, then the city is located here: Sungir is the Upper Paleolithic site of an ancient man in the Vladimir region at the confluence of the eponymous stream in the Klyazma river, near Bogolyubovo. Discovered in 1955 during the construction of the plant and investigated by O. N. Bader. The estimated age is 25 thousand years. But we don’t even think of celebrating the 25th millennium of the city.
        1. ZU-23
          ZU-23 14 September 2013 15: 47 New
          0
          Well, if you really think deeper where a person will be born and survive faster, where it is warm or where it is cold, let's take the same city in Russia Derbent, which is even older than Kievan Rus, he is 2000 years old, and there are conversations from 2.5 to 5000) )))
    2. Che Guevara
      Che Guevara 14 September 2013 15: 26 New
      +2
      Well, then the Slavs lived in Novgorod (I don’t remember exactly Dregovich or anyone else), but they became Russians after unification under Kievan Rus.
      1. Imperial
        Imperial 14 September 2013 15: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Chegevara
        Well, then the Slavs lived in Novgorod (I don’t remember exactly Dregovich or anyone else), but they became Russians after unification under Kievan Rus.
        Krivichi, Dergovichi, present Belarusians, I don’t remember exactly, but in my opinion, Dergovichi are inhabitants of swamps. But that's why the Russian people got the common name. You missed Kievan Rus, this term is artificial and was coined not so long ago, either by Karamzin or by someone else. As for the self-designation Russian, then the debate has not subsided so far. Here is one version:
        Let's get down to the main thing. A great many tribes and peoples on earth were named according to the place of their predominant habitat; many lagging behind in social development, depending on this circumstance, call themselves to this day. The self-name of the coastal Chukchi is An Kalyn (“marine inhabitants”), Evenki reindeer herders and Duncan hunters (“inhabitants of hills”), Bedouins mean “steppe”, “inhabitants of deserts”, Selkups-shesh kul (“taiga man”), African tervins - "forest", Indians Seneca-Nunda-ve-o-no ("the great people of the hills"), Indonesian Batak - "living on the water." And the Eastern Slavic early medieval glades are “the inhabitants of the fields”, the Dregovichs are the “inhabitants of the swamps”, the Drevlyans are the “inhabitants of the wilds, forests”, however, differences existed only for themselves, and all of them have settled along rivers since time immemorial ... And now I I decide to make an assumption, which, it seems to me, can withstand the requirements of historical linguistics, toponymy, history, logic. If “Rus” is a “river” - the eternal place of the settlements of our ancestors, with which their lifestyle and beliefs have always been so closely connected, “Rus” is the Pre-Slavic root, which formed such a large nest of words only in Russian. Rus - the half-forgotten mythical Dnieper deity, then the generalized ethnonym "Rus" or "Russ" - from ancient times meant "living on the rivers", "inhabitants of the rivers", "river people" .. More fully, Chivilikhin, Memory is the second book.
      2. ZU-23
        ZU-23 14 September 2013 15: 57 New
        +1
        If the Russians from Novgorod were still Orthodox, since they give drink to the Russian people from Kiev. As I also read the skirmish between Russian and Ukrainian, the Ukrainian tells him Russian, when Yakubovich asks you on the field of wonders what’s called, what’s called sho, so you say, stand and stupid, and here in Ukraine it’s still called )))
        1. Imperial
          Imperial 14 September 2013 17: 13 New
          0
          What are you talking about now? Prince of Novgorod Vladimir (later Kiev), he was Orthodox since birth belay Have you ever read my post? You read what you wrote, in one phrase your post can be described - everything mixed up in the house of Oblonsky. Yes, this is truly a field of miracles, and if you already started to write, then take the trouble to find out what syntax and then you will be easier to understand.
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas 14 September 2013 11: 18 New
    +8
    from them, true creators of Ukraine!
    1. Proud.
      Proud. 14 September 2013 12: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: Aeneas
      from them, true creators of Ukraine!

      I understand this picture is funny?
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas 14 September 2013 13: 04 New
        +3
        a fairy tale is a lie, but a hint in it. Good fellows a lesson! hi
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 14 September 2013 11: 23 New
    +3
    Quote: “The power of Russia,” wrote Bismarck, “can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it.”
    Through the efforts of Western politicians, Bismarck's dreams, unfortunately, are being realized. The activity of a separate layer of national elites also contributes to this. At the same time, economic ties developed over decades are destroyed. The most technologically advanced industries such as space and aircraft construction are in decline. And there is no person either in Russia or in Ukraine to stop this orgy. So, we give the solution to this issue to our descendants in the distant future! It's a pity...
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 14 September 2013 11: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Through the efforts of Western politicians, Bismarck's dreams, unfortunately, come true

      But the Communists have nothing to do with it?
      Why did they enter the nationality column in the passport?
      I think, in order for the Russians in Ukraine to drive into the head that they are Ukrainians.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 14 September 2013 17: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: ATATA
        Why did they enter the nationality column in the passport?
        I think, in order for the Russians in Ukraine to drive into the head that they are Ukrainians.

        Not. It was necessary to show that tsarist Russia was a "prison of peoples" - but the small nations - Chukchi, Nanai ... well, it’s small, but three "oppressed, big, unfortunate ...".
        But here is a double edged sword!
        Right now, our children are taught in schools, even from kindergarten - "you live in Ukraine - you are Ukrainian!" And try to prove (and explain to the children) that you are RUSSIAN! And this is done in order to show that there are few Russians living, therefore, the second state Russian language is not needed, to teach children only in Ukrainian (at least in universities) in schools - if you collect the signatures yourself - they will open a class (one) .... So the nationality column is needed!
  • vikov
    vikov 14 September 2013 11: 25 New
    +7
    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    The article voiced only the topic of the German footprint in the separation of Ukrainians from Russians. And the biggest contribution to this matter was made by the Soviet government, under the leadership of Lazar Moiseevich Kaganovich, who led this process, being the first secretary of the CPSU (b) of Ukraine.


    And why is not Lenin mentioned with Trotsky? after all, it is the Brest Peace that has determined the borders between the Russian Federation and Ukraine at this time.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 14 September 2013 11: 40 New
      +7
      Quote: vikov
      And why is not Lenin mentioned with Trotsky? after all, it is the Brest Peace that has determined the borders between the Russian Federation and Ukraine at this time.

      Naturally!
      Communists, this is generally a German-Zionist project.
      Remember who was the founder of scientific communism.
      70% of the Central Committee of the CPSU are Jews!
      1. vikov
        vikov 14 September 2013 11: 46 New
        +3
        Whatever it was, but to maintain power, national projects were implemented in the 20s, especially when the church was suppressed, and now the Austrians are Germans, alas, they themselves gave birth.
    2. Proud.
      Proud. 14 September 2013 13: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: vikov
      after all, it is the Brest Peace that has determined the borders between the Russian Federation and Ukraine at this time.

      Not quite so. A body like the Central Rada was organized in (in) Ukraine after the events of February 1917. Its founders were moderate liberals from TUP, headed by Evgen Chikalenko, Sergiy Efremov and Dmitry Doroshenko, and social democrats led by Volodimir Vinnichenko and Simon Petlyura. A few weeks later, the “Ukrainian Party of Socialist-Revolutionary Party”, which was gaining weight, represented by Mykola Kovalevsky, Pavel Khristyuk and Mikita Shapoval, entered the Central Rada. Mikhailo Grushevsky, who returned from exile, was elected President of the Central Council. Incidentally, Grushevsky arrived from Moscow. On June 23, 1917, the Rada published its first "Universal":

      “Ukrainian people! The people of the peasants, workers, working people!

      By your will, you set us, the Ukrainian Central Rada, on guard of the rights and liberties of the Ukrainian Land ...

      Let Ukraine be free. Without separating from all of Russia, without breaking with the Russian power, let the Ukrainian people on their land have the right to arrange their own life. Let order and order in Ukraine give the popular vote by the popular, equal, direct and secret ballot of the Ukrainian National Assembly (Sejm). All the laws that should give that order here in Ukraine, Ukraine has the right to issue only to the Ukrainian Assembly.

      And those laws that should give order to the entire Russian state should be issued in the All-Russian Parliament.

      No one can know better than us what we need and what laws are best for us.

      No one better than our peasants can know how to dispose of their land. And therefore, we want that after all landowners, state, royal, monastic and other lands will be confiscated throughout the whole of Russia into the ownership of the peoples, when the law on this is published at the All-Russian Constituent Assembly, the right to dispose of our Ukrainian lands, the right to use them belonged only to ourselves, to our Ukrainian Assembly (Sejm). ” Until 1917, the term "Ukrainian people" was not in any encyclopedia. So, any honest politician would first formulate the concepts of “Ukrainian people” and “Ukrainian land.” So, Kerensky, having come to them for negotiations, actually recognized the course towards separation and independence. Since negotiations with the Central Council, Kerensky recognized the right of the General Secretariat manage the five Ukrainian provinces - Kiev, Poltava, Podolsk, Volyn and Chernihiv. It all started from there. By the way, when the Bolsheviks took power in the fall of 17 years in Kharkov, Donbass and Kryvyi Rih, the parliament issued the third Universal, November 20, 1917, in which proclaimed the formation of the Ukrainian People’s Republic (UNR). So, not the Brest Peace, but the weak-willedness of the Provisional Government!
  • kind
    kind 14 September 2013 11: 48 New
    +2
    Again provocative little article in order to escalate tension between our peoples. fool
    1. MG42
      MG42 14 September 2013 12: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: Good
      Again provocative little article in order to escalate tension between our peoples. fool

      Most of all, the tension is aggravated by our authorities, so Yanukovych yesterday spoke out that Ukraine had fulfilled all the criteria for signing an association with the EU, how do Putin understand such statements ?, at the same time, Azarov says that we will be friends with the Customs Union lol , and Moscow and Brussels put forward a clear condition that sitting on 2 chairs = the ass will crack at Yanukovych .. the 3 + 1 formula has long been rejected in the Kremlin .. so the pressure will inevitably increase.
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas 14 September 2013 13: 45 New
        +4
        Well, was Yanukovych “good” when he signed the Kharkov agreements and abandoned NATO? ... He was promised a review of gas prices, because Ukrainian metallurgy and chemistry became uncompetitive. Deceived. The CIS Free Trade Zone was signed. They deceived ... Does he have to be the most “Russian” than those who sit in the Kremlin? ... Now Ukraine will simply enter the European markets, and then Yanukovych was declared a traitor, a hfashist, etc. Laughter and sin, chesslovo!
        1. MG42
          MG42 14 September 2013 14: 09 New
          +3
          Quote: Aeneas
          Well, Yanukovych was “good” when he signed the Kharkov agreements

          Received a discount of $ 100 per 1000 cubic meters, the lease of the base was extended ..

          Hehe, there was one eccentric nicknamed "metronome", he counted everything in the comments hours and minutes until the Black Sea Fleet was withdrawn from Sevastopol, then disappeared after this news about the Kharkiv agreements, I am worried about what happened to him .. crying
        2. Egoza
          Egoza 14 September 2013 17: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Aeneas
          Now Ukraine will simply enter the European markets,

          Wait! So they let us in! They will push their here! And our "will stand quietly on the sidelines." Yes, the same Shell company that was going to extract shale gas from us immediately refused Ukrainian pipes - it only needs European ones.
          1. Oleg Kharkov
            Oleg Kharkov 14 September 2013 22: 06 New
            +1
            Let's just say that Shell tried to refuse. Then, after thinking, and still recognized the quality of Ukrainian pipes to international standards. I suspect she was subtly hinted that without this, another company, Chevron, for example, could take up the development. So the west can be crushed, as with nuclear weapons for nuclear power plants. In general, everything could be a desire.
    2. ZU-23
      ZU-23 14 September 2013 12: 03 New
      +2
      but among normal, adequate people, truth must prevail, regardless of nationality.
  • 8NEO8
    8NEO8 14 September 2013 12: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: Siberian German
    Although I am German, I want to say the following - who forbids us to use these methods against the same Europe, USA, etc. we need to clearly set a goal and achieve it by any means. Someone will say that there should be a framework of humanity and something else - but look, they are not shy to sow hatred between nations and achieve their goals, so we should act


    This is what sets us apart from them. We barbarians have never been likened to "enlightened" cattle ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 14 September 2013 12: 09 New
    +3
    Every nation deserves its own government. In general, that blaming the mirror, since the mug is crooked. At the household level, fraternity is not visible when Little Russians came to Russia to earn money and brought down rates of 50% or even 75% to us here, this did not add “love” to them here. Little Russians only thought about their wallet. He is an Arbeiter and in Africa he is an Arbeiter. By the way, the myth that an autonomous and non-stagnant "power" would live better than in the Union was blown away immediately.
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas 14 September 2013 13: 39 New
      +2
      vaasche Ukrainians work for free. It’s just that enthusiasts are kind of something, because we have a hot meal.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • knn54
    knn54 14 September 2013 12: 30 New
    +6
    How can a simple Ukrainian resist the pressure of lies, dirt, and “analytics” on the one hand and neglect, gloating, insults on the other ???
    The devastation in the minds triumphs.
    Such articles were relevant 10 years ago. Now THIS needs to be treated ELSE.
    New ideas are needed, but no one has them. In addition to geopolitics, no one calls for unification with Ukraine.
    PS Does anyone doubt that South and North Korea are populated by the same people? And has anyone seen a thick c / c / c dictionary?
    PPS In his study, a professor at the University of Vienna, Karl Wojcielka, on the population of the Cisleytan and Translaitan parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire writes:
    in Magyar rutén, self-name - Rusyns, from the beginning of the 20th century - Ukrainians. In the letters and orders of Peter I of the beginning of the XVIII century, the term "Little Russian people" is used. After the creation of the Russian Empire, Muscovites became Russian.
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas 14 September 2013 13: 37 New
      +3
      Rusyns - at Galicians. And the Ukrainians are the "little ones" mentioned by Peter, and after him. And before that, right up to Elizabeth they called Cherkasy. In Ukrainian folklore the term Ukraine is very often mentioned, and I have never heard Little Russia. But in the Galician-Ruthenian, I did not hear references to "Ukraine".
      1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
        NOBODY EXCEPT US 14 September 2013 22: 26 New
        0
        Read Gogol, Little Russia there at every step and do not say that he was a Muscovite ....
        1. Aeneas
          Aeneas 14 September 2013 23: 22 New
          +1
          Gogol is not hfolol ... This is literature!
    2. xan
      xan 15 September 2013 01: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      How can a simple Ukrainian resist the pressure of lies, dirt, and “analytics” on the one hand and neglect, gloating, insults on the other ???

      But how did the Russians in the nineties consider Ukraine to be a brotherly country, sell halfway (for Germany 270) and in response to hear all the garbage from the Ukrainians, such as a scene from "92 meters"? The Ukrainian has a short memory, it is clear that his popol is closer.
      But at first it was insulting to the Russians.
  • Stamp
    Stamp 14 September 2013 12: 40 New
    +3
    Otto von Bismarck:
    “The power of Russia can be undermined only by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, set off two parts of a single nation and watch how brother will kill his brother. To do this, you only need to find and cultivate traitors among the national elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”

    About the same principle, only much earlier than Bismarck Divide and Conquer (lat. divide et impera) short and clear, some attribute this phrase to the Roman Senate in ancient times, others to King Louis, the third Machiavelli.
  • aleshka1987
    aleshka1987 14 September 2013 13: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions, Putin failed the regional policy to divide Ukraine into East and West. Everyone who was loyal to Russian politics began to reconsider their attitude not in favor of Putin. And time. It works against unification. A generation has already grown up brought up by the bickering of politicians of the two states. The second will grow up. which will consider itself citizens of neighboring states. Putin’s imperial ambitions do not scare away, but simply push us apart. And all those who believe, like Putin, that an alliance is possible on a "voluntary-compulsory basis" are mistaken. Do not believe corrupt media. mouthpiece of power. They did everything to smear us in shit in front of each other. Two pa-khan quarreled, and at lackeys forelocks crackled from servility to their gentlemen. Unfortunately, power and time forcefully alienate us from each other. We have omitted everything and allowed the creation of this situation. Maybe we will not spread rot each other and amuse power. Time will tell. It also heals, and the rulers are not eternal.

    Why are you minus? The man wrote the pure truth, although some do not like it ...
  • Hulk
    Hulk 14 September 2013 13: 22 New
    0
    Quote: krpmlws
    There are no divisions in my mind, we are all Russian.

    And in mine there. As a Russian, I respect Ukrainians, Belarusians, Moldavians, Mordovians, Chuvashs, and so on. I like their customs, songs, history. I even love Tajiks, only they would be sitting at home. Not to divide peoples in consciousness means to destroy them. And if I were a Bulgarian, for example, I would proudly say that I am a Bulgarian.
  • GUSAR
    GUSAR 14 September 2013 13: 26 New
    -1
    And that Ukraine is a state? And there are such people Ukrainians?
    1. creak
      creak 14 September 2013 18: 44 New
      0
      And the Pereyaslavskaya Rada - does it mean anything to you? With whom did Russia reunite in 1654? With a mirage? In the Soviet Union in 1954, the three hundredth anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine with Russia was widely celebrated ..
      1. Rider
        Rider 14 September 2013 18: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: ranger
        With whom did Russia reunite in 1654? With a mirage?


        Have you read that contract?
        is there a mention of "Ukraine and Ukrainians"?

        I myself do not know, but you can enlighten.
  • vkrav
    vkrav 14 September 2013 13: 32 New
    +2
    Yes, no matter who invents, the result is obvious ... It’s difficult to talk about the situation in Ukraine with censored words, so I’ll give a fresh statement by Kuchma
    “When I visit plants such as Yuzhmash or Kharkov Aviation, I understand that we are not moving into the 21st century, but returning to the 19th. What is it that out of 60 thousand people, less than 20 thousand people work. Is it work when people work 3 days a week. In addition, only three buildings are heated from the entire huge plant. What high-tech production can we talk about? ”

    http://censor.net.ua/news/253197/kuchma_somnevaetsya_chto_pravoslavie_vedet_ukra
    inu_k_protsvetaniyu_segodnya_samye_bogatye_eto_protestantskie
  • aleshka1987
    aleshka1987 14 September 2013 13: 36 New
    -4
    Urry! New ventilator sketch! Shmyak! Shmyak! Shmyak!
    1. vkrav
      vkrav 14 September 2013 13: 45 New
      +3
      Self-critical! lol
  • DmitriRazumov
    DmitriRazumov 14 September 2013 13: 43 New
    +3
    In 1898, Germany launched the idea of ​​creating an "independent Ukrainian nation" within the framework of autonomy on the territory of Austria-Hungary.

    A very dubious statement. T.N. Austria-Hungary (the Russian name), but in fact the "Great Roman Empire of the German People" (official name until 1918) or briefly Österreich (Eastern Empire), Austria (English-speaking transcription) was the main time of its existence, the worst enemy of Prussia and its main adversary in the struggle for the unification of the German lands around Berlin. The so-called German-German war, in which the Prussians prevailed, thereby forever discouraging Vienna from fighting for leadership in the German-speaking world.
    Therefore, in Austria such a project could exist, but for Berlin and the chancellor personally to be involved, it is highly doubtful.
    1. POBEDA
      POBEDA 14 September 2013 14: 56 New
      0
      Not quite so .. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation ended in 1806, it was replaced by Austria and Prussia
      1. DmitriRazumov
        DmitriRazumov 14 September 2013 16: 39 New
        +3
        To be precise, Prussia was never part of Österreich, but was a separate, quite warlike German kingdom, exerting strong political and military pressure on its neighbors, despite the fact that the Prussians were economically inferior to all other German states. During the Napoleonic Wars, i.e. in 1800 Prussia was a consistent member of the anti-Napoleonic coalition. In the 18th century the Prussian king Frederick II successfully fought with Denmark, Saxony and others. Conquering new territories and authority for the Prussians. The only one who made him fail was A.V. Suvorov. In Leningrad, the Suvorov Museum even keeps the king's hat, lost when fleeing the Russian troops, led by the great commander.
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 14 September 2013 13: 55 New
    0
    This is only the tip of the iceberg, there are still Poles ...
    BUT!
    "ancient", OR, more precisely, the dense ukram, even if in the eyes, everything will be God's dew. sad angry
    BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER! GOOD LUCK TO YOU! hi
    1. Rider
      Rider 14 September 2013 14: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: Peaceful military
      BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER


      where there, here they’re overwhelming the "European integration" far away, we can and remember the older brother.

      and this is even in the best case, otherwise it can reach the Polish-Romanian invasion.
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 14 September 2013 14: 41 New
        +2
        where there, here they’re overwhelming the "European integration" far away, we can and remember the older brother.

        Dear Alexander! This is gloating and it is not in my nature. hi
        1. Rider
          Rider 14 September 2013 15: 13 New
          -2
          Quote: Peaceful military
          This is gloating and it is not in my nature.


          but in my ego (gloating) more than enough.
          I know that I’m sinful, but I like it so much as a fool ... uh, stupid people, they get what they deserve.

          to see the time has come to roll a full spoon slurp the brew of "European integration"
          hi
      2. knn54
        knn54 15 September 2013 12: 10 New
        0
        -Rider: and this is even in the best case, otherwise you can reach the Polish-Romanian invasion.
        I am surprised that there are no statues who invented Kazakhstan, Belarus ...
        Thank you for your concern. Think better about your neighbor, China. A large territory with a relatively small population, and you have found oil ...
        PS While being in Alma-Ata (October, 1980), I often heard (not from a collective farmer or a worker) -Chinese are our brothers ...
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 15 September 2013 13: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: knn54
          I am surprised that there are no statues who invented Kazakhstan, Belarus ...

          I once wrote ... the topic was not supported) but in fact:
          German project - "On March 3, 1918, a peace treaty was signed in Brest-Litovsk, according to which the vast majority of the ethnic territory (modern Belarus) came under German control. On March 25, the Byelorussian People’s Republic was proclaimed, which actually existed until the end of World War I war. "
          Further: “On January 1, 1919, the Soviet Socialist Republic of Belarus (SSRB) was proclaimed as part of the RSFSR in Smolensk. On January 8, the Red Army occupied Minsk and the capital of the SSRB was moved to Minsk. On January 31, 1919, the republic withdrew from the RSFSR and was renamed the Byelorussian Socialist Soviet Republic "
          "In March 1924 and December 1926, part of the territory of the RSFSR, namely: parts of Vitebsk (with Vitebsk), Smolensk (with Orsha), Gomel province (with Gomel) were transferred to the Byelorussian SSR. Until 1936, the official languages ​​of the republic along with Belarusian and Russian was Polish and Yiddish. By the law of the USSR of November 2, 1939, Western Belarus was annexed to the BSSR. "
          So if Russia quarrels with the Old Man there is simply not a "plowed field" of any "pritenzy", gifts to Ukraine rest. In the meantime, they are silent, however, the TS
          P.S. In Kazakhstan, the situation is similar ...
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 15 September 2013 18: 47 New
            0
            So if Russia quarrels with the Old Man there is simply not a "plowed field" of any "pritenzy", gifts to Ukraine rest. In the meantime, they are silent, however, the TS
            P.S. In Kazakhstan, the situation is similar ...

            Oleg, as they say, is holy truth. The Big Game no one has canceled. On this topic, M. Leontiev rummaged deeply and released the eponymous video cycle. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU
        2. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 15 September 2013 16: 24 New
          0
          Nikolay, in vain you are so excited.
          As for Kazakhstan and Belarus, they were invented, which is no secret to anyone.
          BUT!
          They do not practice national idiocy, pedaling a certain history of their historical exclusivity, ancient statehood, etc. Unlike some.
          About Kazakhs and Chinese, also crap. I have been to Kazakhstan quite a bit (in the north - Kustanay and in the south - Alma-Ata) and with me in the School, in the same study group, children from Kazakhstan studied, and Kazakhs served with me. I didn’t even hear a hint. Do not believe.stop
          With China, it’s not as bad as you try to see. There is a problem, but it is compensated.
          But the long-awaited separation of a large part from Russia is a serious matter, not to say stronger. Moreover, when, brothers Ukrainians, having lifted their trousers, contribute to this, having heard the fables about themselves and us all - this is a tragedy with far-reaching consequences.
          hi
          1. Darakht
            Darakht 15 September 2013 16: 37 New
            0
            Quote: Peaceful military
            As for Kazakhstan and Belarus, they were invented, which is no secret to anyone.

            Ahahah, I look here all the states and nations are invented wassat I'm afraid to make a mistake about the state and the nation not invented, but since I’m not sure about this exceptional, I will not say anything.
            Are you by any chance not one of those who lead all of world history from Russians? And then I came across one, his Persians were the Sons of Perun (Iranians, Tajiks, sun-burnt Slavs), and Palestine was the Pale Wall (Jews are bad people, they took away the original Russian lands) ... and in the same way and in the same spirit laughing If anything, I can introduce you, you will tell each other tales in ward number 6 wassat
            1. Peaceful military
              Peaceful military 15 September 2013 18: 57 New
              -1
              Ahahah, I look here all the states and nations are invented

              Leonid, don’t be a fool, I understand that you are young and most likely poorly educated. This is not a rebuke, it is the horror of the last 30 (if not more) years.
              If you were in the know, then to your amazement, you would have known that so many nation-states were invented. The Big Game has not been canceled. On this topic, M. Leontiev rummaged deeply and released the eponymous video cycle. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU hi
              1. Darakht
                Darakht 15 September 2013 19: 24 New
                0
                Quote: Peaceful military
                On this topic, M. Leontiev rummaged deeply and released the eponymous video cycle. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU hi

                Thank you so much, perhaps I will refuse, let me be poorly educated, young, but not paranoid. I know better than Theodore Dreiser I esteem, Mikhail Bulgakov, Dante with his "Divine Comedy" and other great people, but look at Leontyev - fire me, I respect myself.
                As for the invented nations, how do we communicate with you? And I'm not Russian, I'm a Hutsul, in the end I'm Ukrainian. Who do you think is raving about us? You or me? Yours faithfully hi
                1. Peaceful military
                  Peaceful military 15 September 2013 19: 37 New
                  0
                  Thank you so much, perhaps I will refuse, let me be poorly educated, young, but not paranoid.

                  Glad for you, Leonid! But, unfortunately, your position looks paranoid, because you are sure that, according to Darwin (which is paranoia), everything happens and is formed by itself ...
                  And I'm not Russian, I'm a Hutsul, in the end I'm Ukrainian. Who do you think is raving about us? You or me?

                  Of course you are! By naivety from youth and ignorance, well, or something else ... You defend the "truth" about some dense, well, i.e. "ancient" state-forming people of Ukraine, which obviously didn’t and couldn’t be and, at the same time, call yourself a Hutsul ... Or are the Hutsuls a precursors ...?laughing
                  Best regardshi
                  1. Darakht
                    Darakht 15 September 2013 20: 09 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Peaceful military
                    Of course you are! By naivety from youth and ignorance, well, or something else ... You defend the "truth" about some dense, well, i.e. "ancient" state-forming people of Ukraine, which obviously didn’t and couldn’t be and, at the same time, call yourself a Hutsul ... Or are the Hutsuls a precursors ...?

                    I will answer you with an excerpt from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, you know smart people wrote it:
                    Ukrainians, along with Russians and Belarusians belong to the Eastern Slavs. Their common ethnic basis was the Old Russian nationality, established by the 10th century. from closely related Eastern Slavic tribes and created its own state - Kievan Rus. Subsequently, as a result of socio-economic and cultural development in the conditions of political disunity of the Old Russian lands during the period of feudal fragmentation (12-14 centuries), three fraternal nationalities gradually formed on the basis of the Old Russian nationality - Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian. From about 14-15 centuries. Ukrainians act as an independent ethnic community with its characteristic features of language, culture and everyday life. The center of the formation of the Ukrainian nationality was the Dnieper region - Kyiv region, Poltava region and southern Chernihiv region. To this ethnic core Ukrainians gravitated to the population of other Ukrainian lands.
                    As for how you express yourself, ukrov, I didn’t slide down to insults, nor did your people call you kaats.a.p.pa.m.i. You know, because of his youth, he is tolerant, and I don’t care about global problems (until my nation starts to get in the way with shit in such low-grade articles). See Leontiev, admire him - let him be your idol and your example, I personally do not consider him an outstanding scientist or a great statesman - an ordinary talker, of which there are many.
                    In the end, I’ll advise you, so you begin to weigh me down with your chauvinism, go to the Tretyakov Gallery - pay attention to the hall with icons, and also pay attention to the cities and chronology. As you go unsubscribe and share the discovery.
                    As for the Hutsuls, there is such a nation, and I am very proud of it. Take a trip to Ivano-Frankivsk, a beautiful city and wonderful people, just don’t say that they are not there, otherwise your tour will end in a nearby psychoneurological boarding school wink
                    1. Peaceful military
                      Peaceful military 15 September 2013 20: 25 New
                      -1
                      I will answer you with an excerpt from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, you know smart people wrote it:

                      Oh Leonid, here, as they say, you "got" ...
                      I feel sorry for you ...
                      If you were a bit (sorry for slang) formed, then you would know what the Khrushchev-Brezhnev correction of the Stalin (Russian-Imperial) national division of the USSR is. By the way, the so-called Ukrainian lobby.
                      And already under this nihilism (not to say stronger), of course, we adjusted the ideological and information base in the form of what you consider to be the truth in the first instance.
                      Not sure the TRUTH will convince you. But that doesn’t bother me ...
                      1. Darakht
                        Darakht 15 September 2013 20: 46 New
                        -2
                        Least of all I want to be pitied, especially if it's paranoid half-educated love
                        Quote: Peaceful military
                        Not sure if the TRUTH will convince you. But that doesn’t bother me ...

                        God, have you come down to earth to reveal your TRUTH to me? fellow Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention Ukrainians (including Rusyns), although there is no mention of Russians either, but this does not mean that there are no such nations. True, the Bible mentions Jews, Romans, Philistines ... but there are no Russians.
                        He does not like the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, so what to catch on the contradictions?
                        Quote: Peaceful military
                        most likely little educated. This is not a rebuke, it is the horror of the last 30 (if not more) years.
                        Wikipedia, then, is not an authority at all, but the brain of the brain has grown - authority. Good luck, happiness, the main thing is health to you, and yes ... remember "Masters and Margarita"? The author, by the way, is a Russian classic.

                        “But the devil, too?” The patient suddenly asked Ivan Nikolaevich cheerfully.

                        - And the devil ...

                        - Do not contradict! - Berlioz whispered with his lips alone, collapsing behind the professor's back and grimacing.

                        - There is no devil! - bewildered by all this agony, cried out Ivan Nikolaevich not what was needed, - this is the punishment! Stop you freaking out.

                        Then the madman burst out laughing so that a sparrow fluttered out of a linden above the heads of those seated.

                        “Well, this is positively interesting,” the professor said, shaking with laughter, “what you have, whatever you grab, there is nothing!”

                        So you have nothing, there is only a poor Russia and you are a chauvinist, and nothing more. Just do not insult Bulgakov, personally, he did nothing wrong to you.
                      2. Peaceful military
                        Peaceful military 15 September 2013 21: 48 New
                        +1
                        Darakht
                        Well, you are here and heaped up nonsense ...
                        I feel sorry for you doubly ...
                        By the way, I didn’t minus you, they do not offend the wretched ... hi
                      3. Darakht
                        Darakht 15 September 2013 21: 56 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Peaceful military
                        Well, you are here and heaped up nonsense ...
                        I feel sorry for you doubly ...
                        By the way, I didn’t minus you, they do not offend the wretched ...

                        And this writes, as he assures, a Soviet officer. Yes, the USSR in the ranks of the Armed Forces kept not only soldiers, but also scoundrels. As for squalor - I didn’t defend that country, I didn’t take the oath to her, that country wasn’t, but there is an Internet troll. So, something is not me. Good luck (now with full right, with feeling, with sense, with arrangement) laughing
                        Change avatar - do not disgrace a great empire hi
      3. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 15 September 2013 17: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: Peaceful military
        As for Kazakhstan and Belarus, they were invented, which is no secret to anyone.
        Well, Russia, as it were, was also invented ..
        Padla Anglo-Saxons, Zhidomassons and nemchura .. am
        There is no Russia, but there is the North-West aimak Ulug Ulus.. soldier
        PS A about the Russian Kaganate and the Kiev hakan I think no one should remind anyone.
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 15 September 2013 19: 24 New
          0
          Well, Russia, as it were, was also invented ..

          Alibek, do not be idiotic, this is not the case. Only the "especially" gifted does not want to see that it is a matter of inventing certain special nation-states to separate these territories from the body of a common state monolith, WITH THE AIM OF, or destruction, or at least weakening of this monolith.
          The Big Game no one has canceled. On this topic, M. Leontiev rummaged deeply and released the eponymous video cycle. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU
          Crazy for you. hi
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 15 September 2013 16: 53 New
      +1
      Knn 54 - The reader is not Kazakh, and to Kazakhstan him, I think the drum ..
      I am surprised that there are no stats who invented Kazakhstan
      Yes, there are such articles and books .. I read and erase .. smile
      And about China, so the Kazakhstani Russians regularly poke us - well, like they push us under Russia .. laughing They scare you with a Geyropa, bend you with sweets, but we are here with China and the Taliban ..
      Quote: knn54
      ) Often heard (not from a collective farmer or a worker), the Chinese are our brothers ...
      This, what an interesting story? It is possible in more detail .. It will be very interesting to Kazakhs .. Though we laugh ... Thanks in advance hi
  • rlanry
    rlanry 14 September 2013 14: 31 New
    +3
    Quote: Peaceful military
    BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER!

    Is the game worth the candle? Is it worth spending a lot of energy to convince Ukrainians not to live the way they like? Or can he just use them in the quality in which they like to be?
    1. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 14 September 2013 14: 42 New
      +2
      Is the game worth the candle? Is it worth spending a lot of energy to convince Ukrainians not to live the way they like? Or can he just use them in the quality in which they like to be?

      This is gloating and it is not in my nature. hi
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 14 September 2013 14: 38 New
    +2
    BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER! GOOD LUCK TO YOU!

    Then a mistake came out, for it should be - BROTHERS OF UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT UKR_Y, REMEMBER! GOOD LUCK TO YOU! hi
  • Altona
    Altona 14 September 2013 14: 15 New
    +6
    Just left the Ukrainian forum ... CU or EU ... trolls are apparently invisible, and all svidomye work over the hill and praise such activity in every way ... They don’t read any arguments, they immediately start with the expressions that de Russian they don’t like, but they like Ukrainians ... I’m in place of a German, for example, I don’t distinguish a Ukrainian from a Russian at all immediately, unless he introduces himself ...)))
    1. xan
      xan 15 September 2013 01: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Altona
      They don’t read any arguments, they immediately start with expressions that they don’t like Russians, but love Ukrainians ..

      they don’t like Russians - it's buzzing
      and let the Ukrainians love, they are so funny
  • rlanry
    rlanry 14 September 2013 14: 19 New
    +3
    Svidomo and "integrators" suspiciously much in common. For example, it is an evidence-free belief in Ukraine’s gigantic enduring value. True, Svidomo are proud that all the empires that included Ukraine collapsed, and integrators believe that Russia is not worthy to be called Russia without Ukraine ... but this is nothing.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 14 September 2013 14: 47 New
    +2
    on Friday on Inter is the program of Savik Shustry. here the other day showed their next meeting. there, exactly the same rhetoric flowed from the lips of Hurwitz and other Ukrainian nationalists.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 14 September 2013 15: 06 New
      +7
      Quote: bublic82009
      on Friday on Inter is the program of Savik Shustry


      Note that "appearances to the people" on the airs of nimble and Kiselev senior, always provoked the situation in the broadcasting country. I can guess who and why called these liberal guys to Ukrainian TV channels when they were “asked” in Russia.
  • OPTR
    OPTR 14 September 2013 14: 58 New
    +1
    Who is embarrassed by the frequency of articles about Ukraine, take the context of social technologies with Ukraine as a special case.

    The questions raised are important, but the article is superficial. Noting the seemingly correct facts, it looks like an agitation, which undermines the credibility of the topic.

    A couple of examples of little thought out topics.

    Did Bismarck invent Ukraine? If Bismarck
    stood for the idea of ​​creating Ukraine
    then it was not there, if it was necessary to "create"? What was meant was obviously quite different. Is "democracy" or "freedom of speech" being "created" now, or are they without "creation"? And if they are, then what exactly is “created”?
    And what kind of "Ukraine" was "created"?

    Ukrainian language artificially created on the basis of Russian, Polish, Hungarian and several other languages


    What does the word "created" mean here? Have you tried creating a language? Give it a try. “Created”, after all, will have to be taught. And teach others.
    And all this at the time of Bismarck?
    Of course, a certain policy was pursued in relation to the language, deliberate changes were introduced, etc. But this can hardly be called the "creation" of the language.

    Several hundred years ago, the Russian language was also very different from the modern one. Read the old texts. Did you also create the Russian language? And the European languages, they also "created"? Well, they have technology ...

    T. Shevchenko does not have the word "Ukrainians"? Is there a term "Russians"? Does Pushkin have the word "Russians"?
    Is it possible on this basis to draw conclusions about their existence or non-existence?

    But what can we say about technology (real observation) -
    right now, often, on Ukrainian TV, the announcers speak with words that are not in the explanatory dictionary of Ukrainian (!). This is not a language creation, but a deliberate change. It is interesting. Who comes up with new words? Not a television studio is having so much fun.
    (In Russian, they also thought up. You can read V. Khlebnikov.) Only the tasks are different.

    That would be such technologies to pay more attention to, which are visible even in the details. Then you can think about how to use or counteract it.
    Otherwise, it turns out that since Bismarck “created” Ukraine, then do we need to do the opposite? And what will it lead to?
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 14 September 2013 15: 53 New
      +1
      - "Russians" are a swear word! laughing
  • Spartakv
    Spartakv 14 September 2013 15: 00 New
    +2
    Read the novels of the "great" Polish writer Heinrich Senkevich (Crusaders, Fire and Sword, Flood, Pan Volodyevsky, etc.) for the Poles, the Ukrainians were always "bygone", and "DREAMY STRAIGHT, AT LEAST WITH EYE, EVERYTHING WILL BE GOD'S DEW."
  • VasDA
    VasDA 14 September 2013 15: 46 New
    +5
    If the article recalls Bismarck, it’s not a sin to remember something else that he said ... Read ... Someone will be interested to know, someone to remember ... And most importantly - EVERYTHING to think about ...

    1. Russia is dangerous by the meagerness of its needs.

    2. With bad laws and good officials it is quite possible to rule the country. But if officials are bad, the best laws will not help.

    3. Be careful to always build castles in the air, these buildings are easier to build than others, but the hardest to collapse.

    4. Even the most favorable outcome of the war will never lead to the decomposition of the main power of Russia, which is based on millions of Russians ... These latter, even if they are dismembered by international treatises, are just as quickly reconnected with each other as particles of a cut piece of mercury ...

    5. Never plot anything against Russia, because it will respond to each of your tricks with its unpredictable stupidity.

    6. The only healthy foundation of a great state is state egoism, not romance, and an unworthy great power to fight for a cause that does not concern its own interest.

    Source: http://www.aphorisme.ru/by-authors/bismark
    1. Dimka off
      Dimka off 14 September 2013 18: 54 New
      0
      Quote: VasDA
      These latter, even if they are dismembered by international treatises, are just as quickly reconnected with each other as particles of a cut piece of mercury ...

      then the time will come when we will be reunited again. I think it’s not long to wait.
    2. xan
      xan 15 September 2013 01: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: VasDA
      . The only healthy basis of a great state is state egoism, not romance, and an unworthy great power to fight for a cause that does not concern its own interest.

      all points give away lyrics, except for this.
      requiring equal rights between states read 50 times
      to the gladiator and the Cornelli, as especially dumb - 100 times
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 15 September 2013 02: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: xan
        all points give away lyrics, except for this.
        requiring equal rights between states read 50 times
        to the gladiator and the Cornelli, as especially dumb - 100 times

        Khan, "gifted" you are ours) ATP for a compliment, apparently I offended you with something). By the way, in the quote above that you liked so much ... the word "great" can be easily removed from there and it will sound like this:
        "The only healthy foundation any normal states are state egoism, not romance, and unworthy normal Powers to fight for a cause that does not concern her own interest. "
        And since Ukraine, at the moment, is a sovereign state, it is supposed to defend its interests, not the interests of Gazprom uncles (no matter how it offends them)
        1. xan
          xan 15 September 2013 22: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: Corneli
          By the way, in the quote above that you liked so much ... the word "great" can be easily removed from there and it will sound like this:

          if you remove all the lyrics and translate Bismarck into simple language, it will turn out something like this: the state is pursuing a policy that it can pursue based on its interests and capabilities, morality and nobility are not appropriate here. And from here a simple conclusion is that the possibilities of countries are not equal, which means that some countries can afford more than others.
          Hence, I do not understand your cries about the equality of Russia and Ukraine - is Ukrainian power equal to Russian?
          Equality is not required, it is sought, but not by whine, but by deed.
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 15 September 2013 22: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: Corneli
          And since Ukraine, at the moment, is a sovereign state, it is supposed to defend its interests, not the interests of Gazprom uncles (no matter how it offends them)

          If the leaders of Ukraine really defended the interests of the country, and not their own (or their shadow masters), it would be much better and easier. What was the point of Tymoshenko’s gas contract, the old one didn’t end at all, and the gas price was more than acceptable ...
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 15 September 2013 22: 57 New
            +1
            Quote: Misantrop
            If the leaders of Ukraine really defended the interests of the country, and not their own (or their shadow masters), it would be much better and easier.

            Duc and what same normal Ukrainian argues with this?)
            Quote: Misantrop
            What was the point of Tymoshenko’s gas contract, the old one didn’t end at all, and the gas price was more than acceptable ...

            What was the point for her and GDP is a separate issue, and well, at least she is glad that she is sitting for him in ... a hospital and does not have the ability to muddle the “new” “saving” contracts.
      2. xan
        xan 15 September 2013 22: 48 New
        0
        Quote: xan
        all points give away lyrics, except for this.
        requiring equal rights between states read 50 times
        to the gladiator and the Cornelli, as especially dumb - 100 times

        as the author of the post, I want to remove Corneli from it
        Cornelli was adequate, at least trying to answer the essence of the posts from his point of view.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 15 September 2013 23: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: xan
          as the author of the post, I want to remove Corneli from it
          Cornelli was adequate, at least trying to answer the essence of the posts from his point of view.

          Thanks for the "great white sahib") love