Who invented Ukraine

314
Who invented UkraineOtto von Bismarck:
“The power of Russia can be undermined only by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, set off two parts of a single nation and watch how brother will kill his brother. To do this, you only need to find and cultivate traitors among the national elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”

Prince Otto von Bismarck, drafted by King Wilhelm I for the post of minister-president of Prussia in 1862, later received 9 years of almost unlimited power as imperial chancellor. But long before that, from 1859 to 1862, von Bismarck was the German ambassador to Russia, so he knew the Russians well and, being a talented person, he understood what the strength of the Russians was and what their weakness was. Bismarck also understood that weapons the Russians could not be defeated, and therefore, when planning the strategy of Germany, the Chancellor devoted a lot of effort to an ideological war.

In fact, it was he, Otto von Bismarck, who was behind the idea of ​​creating Ukraine and recognized that the term “Ukraine” impressed him greatly. On the maps of Bismarck, Ukraine stretched from Saratov and Volgograd in the northeast to Makhachkala in the south. The Ukrainization program was launched by Austria-Hungary at the end of the 19th century, and at the heart of this lay the re-identification of the Little Russians and the Galician Ruthenians into the so-called “Ukrainians”.

By the way, neither the "moderate" Russophobe Taras Shevchenko, nor the "terry" Lesya Ukrainka have such terms as "Ukrainian", "Ukrainian nation", but there are Slavs, Little Russians, and Ruthenians. But von Bismarck’s plans began to be implemented and, according to the 1908 census of the year, Ukrainians were already called up to 1% of the inhabitants of south-west Russia. In Germany, it was “scientifically proven” that the Russians are not Slavs or even Aryans (although the tribes from which the Germans and Slavs came out are called Slavic-Germanic tribes), but representatives of a certain Mongolian-Finnish tribe, “mankruts”. In 1898, in Germany, the idea was launched of creating a “separate Ukrainian nation” within the autonomy of Austria-Hungary.

Instead of the concepts “Rus” and “Ruski”, the terms “Ukraine”, “Ukrainian” etc. were replicated in the Vienna-controlled press. In the memoirs of General Hoffmann in 1926, you can read: “The creation of Ukraine is not the result of the initiative of the Russian people, but there is the result of my intelligence. "

But the opinion of the French consul Emile Eno (1918): “Ukraine has never had its stories and national distinctiveness. It was created by the Germans. Pro-German Skoropadsky government should be eliminated. " The French side, an ally of the Russians in the 1 World War I, is easy to understand because the so-called Ukrainian People’s Republic (UNR) has actually become the service of the host, Germany, since the creation of the Germans with food and industrial raw materials, as well as a place of deployment armed forces of Germany and Austria-Hungary.

“The power of Russia,” wrote Bismarck, “can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, to poison the two parts of a single nation and watch how a brother will kill a brother.” To do this, you only need to find and cultivate traitors among the national elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”

Von Bismarck was in charge of his German people and planned Ukraine (the outskirts) as a buffer territory, the fences of the lands of Austria-Hungary and Germany from Russia, since "the Russian Prussians were always beaten," although it was necessary to focus on it - they were not the first to get involved.

That is why the Ukrainian language, artificially created on the basis of Russian, Polish, Hungarian and several other languages, turned out to be so “harmonious”. So it was intended.

In general, the notorious “Dulles plan” was initiated by Otto von Bismarck, although even in his time there was nothing fundamentally new here: to break a tribe (family, people) into districts, to weaken them, to weaken them in every way, to enslave ...
314 comments
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  1. +42
    14 September 2013 08: 30
    Great article.
    And yesterday's about Opanas seemed to be paid for by Bismarck.
    And it is not necessary about the theft of our gas in the 90-x, about Little Russia, about the dumping of metallurgy and mechanical engineering (which rot our industries) and so on. I know about this and much more. But why do people?
    1. +3
      14 September 2013 08: 43
      Quote: My address
      Great article.

      Everything new is well forgotten old! I think soon the counterarguments about freedom from the mind will begin to come up again, it will be very interesting to listen to new trends in this area.
      1. +2
        14 September 2013 08: 59
        Sorry, Valery, did not understand.
        Arguments to justify stupidity, or counter arguments about the need to think with your head?
        1. +11
          14 September 2013 09: 20
          Quote: My address
          Arguments to justify stupidity, or counter arguments about the need to think with your head?

          About non-fallowing, about it is not clear what and why freedom and all that blah ... blah ... blah wassat
        2. +4
          15 September 2013 01: 04
          ... Russia was not up to the conversation, even the 90s, then Ukraine could develop, and really could achieve decisive results, they are undeniably, a matter of measure, but for Ukraine it is better not to measure now ... with respect to Russia and the West ...
      2. +11
        14 September 2013 09: 37
        Quote: Sibiryak
        Everything new is well forgotten old!


        article, put (+) but the topic is not disclosed by the author, it is touched upon superficially. Firstly, Mova is not mentioned, as one of the basic antipodes of the Russian language, secondly, the anti-history of Ukrainians with its 140 period, the construction of the Egyptian pyramids and the invention of the wheel is not mentioned, and thirdly, where there are references to traditions and galushko-khutor mentality, the author is where embroidered shirts, where is the mention of red Aladdin trousers and crooked Turkish templates? a feeling that the "dish" is good, but something is missing.
        1. +6
          14 September 2013 14: 58
          More details about Mov and "Ukraine" can be found here:

          http://alternatio.org/articles/articles/itemlist/user/133-александрка
          revin
      3. +24
        14 September 2013 10: 19
        Although I am German, I want to say the following - who forbids us to use these methods against the same Europe, USA, etc. we need to clearly set a goal and achieve it by any means. Someone will say that there should be a framework of humanity and something else - but look, they are not shy to sow hatred between nations and achieve their goals, so we should act
        1. +9
          14 September 2013 10: 26
          Quote: Siberian German
          Someone will say that there should be a framework of humanity and something else - but look, they are not shy to sow hatred between nations and achieve their goals, so we should act

          And what will it lead to, you can say?
          1. +7
            14 September 2013 12: 18
            I don’t know what this will lead to, but it doesn’t stop them. although I myself am disgusted, but someone must do it for the good of our country and our peoples. and I put you a plus
            1. +9
              14 September 2013 13: 25
              Siberian German
              Hatred never gave rise to virtue, so before you do anything you always need to think about the consequences.
              1. +2
                15 September 2013 17: 17
                Quote: Sibiryak
                Hatred never begets virtue

                But virtue often led to hatred. With good intentions, the road to hell is paved.
            2. +21
              14 September 2013 13: 34
              Quote: Siberian German
              I don’t know what this will lead to, but their it does not stop.

              this is precisely the difference between US and THEM.
              we defeat the enemy in a fair fight, they most often act from under the tishka method "divide, play, and rule"
              what actually happened with "Project Ukraine"

              and that is why they seek to destroy us, because we carry a different civilizational code, a different worldview and spiritual essence.

              WE cannot act as THEY; this contradicts our internal principles.
              they do not manage to act like us, because it does not make a profit and does not lead to what they strive for - to power.

              that’s the difference in mentality.
              1. +5
                14 September 2013 15: 12
                Quote: Rider
                WE cannot act as THEY; this contradicts our internal principles.

                Well, in vain, smart people teach differently.
                Regarding a shameless person, nobility is excessive nonsense.
                Publius Sir
                1. +8
                  14 September 2013 15: 19
                  Quote: Centurion
                  Well, in vain,


                  it is possible, but having become the same predators as the Europeans, why do we need God (or Earth, if you will)?

                  I believe that Russia has its own mission on earth, and our mentality is part of it.

                  but you can consider my statements as isoteric.
                2. xan
                  +3
                  14 September 2013 20: 26
                  Quote: Centurion
                  Regarding a shameless person, nobility is excessive nonsense.
                  Publius Sir

                  Bismarck in politics is smart unscrupulousness and meanness, a sort of scam on an international scale, and a very competent placement of flags. But it was very effective and always achieved the goal.
                3. +2
                  15 September 2013 22: 00
                  As a rule, Roman pearls of the mind are written on human skin. Such, you know, economic reality - you need to be a smart and zealous host. Since a slave has begun to grow old - why transfer food to him? Parchment is expensive, books too ... but isn't it nice to use the tender skin of a young girl for a love message? Always remember this when reading the Roman legacy.
                  So about this thought. Nobleness, of course, is unnecessary. That's just between the nobility and assimilation of filth there is still a huge distance ... which Publius prefers not to notice. Still, he needs an excuse for his own meanness and sells well an excuse for the meanness of others. Since the enemy is shameless, let us drop the honor! Forget fidelity, duty, decency ... we’ll settle down next to the bloody trough, slurp the same yushka ... only better! Bigger, stronger, meaner, bloodier.
                  Do not forget about human skin, fraught with ...
              2. +3
                15 September 2013 17: 28
                Quote: Rider
                this is precisely the difference between US and THEM.
                we defeat the enemy in a fair fight, they most often act from under the tishka method "divide, play, and rule"

                No need to sew wings onto your back. There are enough examples when you used the methods so blamed by you in the history of RI and the USSR to achieve the results. I do not see anything wrong with this, if we are talking about the interests of the country. We will indulge in trifling, and get the fate of the American Indians.
                1. +1
                  15 September 2013 17: 36
                  Quote: Karabin
                  There are enough examples when you used the methods so blamed by you in the history of RI and the USSR to achieve the results.


                  quite possible,
                  however, I draw your attention to the fact that the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR didn’t poison gas on an industrial scale, and didn’t drop atomic bombs on defenseless cities, didn’t use carpet bombing, didn’t poison whole countries with opium, didn’t arrange genocide and concentration camps for gentry peoples, and didn’t set some nations on others.

                  AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, DID NOT JUSTIFY THIS BY CARRYING OUT "DEMOCRACY"

                  do not you think that this is enough to not put Russia on a par with the West.

                  I advise you to think about it.
                  1. +2
                    15 September 2013 18: 16
                    I understand that those who put me cons, believe that the RI.SSSR did all of the above?

                    it would be interesting to listen to their arguments

                    laughing
                    1. Misantrop
                      +2
                      15 September 2013 18: 31
                      Quote: Rider
                      it would be interesting to listen to their arguments
                      They have already presented all their arguments (minuses) ... request
                2. 0
                  15 September 2013 22: 03
                  And as soon as RI and the USSR began to do such things, what happened to them? And now "I see nothing wrong"? Gorbachev, re-login, what is already there ...
            3. 0
              15 September 2013 00: 08
              Quote: Siberian German
              I don’t know what it will lead to, but it doesn’t stop them.

              That's right! And you are a plus.
              1. Anat1974
                +1
                15 September 2013 01: 22
                Listen to this balabol less! He has already shown himself (or rather did not show in any way), being in the ranks of the Armed Forces. Now he is trying without a sword, but with his screams to tell about flying saucers, about telepathy, about his "most powerful" contribution to the development of our armed forces and, of course, about the fact that all world problems and their constant, reaching a dead end cannot do without him. and personally resolved issues. Well, what can you do, he became a public person. I would like to cut some money for old age with my epics.
                Well guys, I have such an opinion about him.
                Although I know his fans have enough.
          2. Anat1974
            0
            15 September 2013 01: 08
            Most likely to our well-being, well, at least, I think, to calm.
        2. +4
          14 September 2013 23: 03
          Siberian German, at your call to beat their "reptiles" with their own weapon, I will give you an excerpt from the poems of the Russian poet, writer Kunyaev: we did not count the fallen, we did not take blood feud, and only therefore became the last hope of the earth.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        3. 0
          15 September 2013 07: 42
          War is won in the territory of the enemy. Consequently, it is necessary to develop the idea of ​​self-determination of Texas and California, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and not to spare money for this. The thoughts of Western politicians and the resources of the West should be aimed at preserving their countries, and not at winning world domination.
      4. xan
        +2
        14 September 2013 20: 21
        Quote: Sibiryak
        Everything new is well forgotten old!

        spiral development is a well-forgotten old, but on a different level.
    2. +21
      14 September 2013 09: 38
      How nice so much attention to Ukraine.
      What is not a day is an article, or even a few.
      It turns out Ukraine is the basis of Russia's power, it is twice as pleasant.

      I’ll insert a picture, so for fun))))
      1. +5
        14 September 2013 09: 49
        Quote: Kars
        How nice so much attention to Ukraine.

        I somehow had no doubt that you would remain aloof from this topic, Andrei, without attesting to your respect, so to speak.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          +3
          14 September 2013 11: 05
          Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions, Putin has failed the regional policy of dividing Ukraine into East and West. Everyone who was loyal to Russian politics began to reconsider their attitude not in favor of Putin. And time. It works against unification. A generation has already grown up, brought up on the bickering of the politicians of the two states. The second will grow up. which will consider itself citizens of neighboring states. Putin's imperial ambitions do not scare us away, they simply push us apart. And all those who believe, like Putin, that an alliance is possible on a "voluntary-compulsory basis" is wrong. Don't trust the venal media. the mouthpiece of power. They did everything to smear us in shit in front of each other. The two khans quarreled, and the forelocks of the slaves creaked from servility towards their masters. Unfortunately, power and time forcefully separate us from each other. We have suppressed everything and allowed this situation to be created. Maybe we will not spread rot against each other and amuse the authorities. Time will tell. It also heals, and the rulers are not eternal.
          1. 0
            14 September 2013 11: 41
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions

            And what's wrong with that, to put together the masses together, confusion and reeling have never been brought to good. It’s very interesting what Yanukovych is doing while Putin is consolidating the masses, so to speak, you can answer wink ?
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Everyone who was loyal to Russian politics began to reconsider their attitude not in favor of Putin.

            It’s you about your politicians, apparently, the patient has ended.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            And time. It works against unification.

            It only shows that history doesn’t teach anything to some!
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            And all those who believe, like Putin, that an alliance is possible on a "voluntary-compulsory basis" is mistaken.

            I can agree or disagree with Putin’s actions, but in my opinion, without the voluntary-compulsory aspects of our country’s relations a long time ago, there would have been no longer.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Do not believe corrupt media. mouthpiece of power. They did everything to smear us in shit in front of each other.

            Our "friends" have been doing this for a long time, to whom these media belong, as always, money is at the forefront.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Unfortunately, power and time forcefully alienate us from each other. We have omitted everything and allowed the creation of this situation. Maybe we will not spread rot each other and amuse power.

            Why spread rot for each other, join us, and you all set some conditions.
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Time will tell. It also heals, and the rulers are not eternal.

            Rulers may not last forever, but an idea can be immortal and passed down from generation to generation!
          2. xan
            0
            14 September 2013 20: 39
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions,

            Zadolbali you already with your emotions.
            Ukrainians, do you set yourself the task of developing the economy, or do you agree to completely lie under Europe?
            Putin is trying to build an independent economy - only it is able to provide Russian citizens with the welfare of the first ranks. You lie down under the West - the welfare of the first level, even the second and third, you will not have in principle. I see you like this. You already lived with Russians in the same country, and you lived better than Russians. In another alliance, you can forget about equal economies, and therefore about an equal standard of living.
            Do you understand this, or problems with IQ?
            1. Captain Vrungel
              +3
              14 September 2013 23: 26
              Thank. I understand that you have big problems with IQ. You stick out yourself with the merits of Putin, although nothing depends on you. And your personality does not play any role in history. We did not live with the Russians. We were Soviet. One scoundrel and three trays divorced us and you, personally, have not gone far from our nationalists. How do you prove that you are Russian by blood? Do you know the story of your grandmothers and great-great-grandmothers, with whom did they mix blood? We are citizens of Ukraine, then Ukrainians, you are Russia, then Russians, and our nationalities are so blurred that we differ from each other only in skin color, eye shape and the language they speak.
              1. xan
                -3
                15 September 2013 00: 21
                Quote: Captain Vrungel
                Thank. I understand that you have big problems with IQ. You stick out yourself with the merits of Putin, although nothing depends on you. And your personality does not play any role in history.

                Captain Vrungel, my post was about economics, not about me personally.
                Why did you write this nonsense?
                you got brain after brain?
      2. +22
        14 September 2013 10: 22
        look at the photo. and the soldier then understands what will happen to Russia and the people. but no one paid attention to this))
        1. +7
          14 September 2013 10: 35
          everything will be fine ... not thanks, but contrary!
        2. +12
          14 September 2013 10: 36
          alone
          And to them that this soldier, like all other people and the country in particular, the thirst for profit prevailed over the reason and opinion of the majority!
        3. +5
          14 September 2013 15: 19
          Quote: lonely
          and the soldier understands what will happen to Russia and the people

          Bravo for the comment !!!!!!!!!
          Only this soldier is positive in this photo, all the rest are either venal enemy rabble or do not know what they are doing.
        4. Algor73
          0
          15 September 2013 10: 55
          The soldier, to cancel from everyone else, just understands what will happen to Russia and the people ...
      3. roial
        +5
        14 September 2013 11: 57
        Amused tanker reaction laughing
        ... "What is he carrying ??"
        1. 0
          14 September 2013 13: 39
          Quote: roial
          ... "What is he carrying ??"


          rather, he anticipates WHERE he will be sent in a couple of years "bearers of democracy and guarantors of the constitution"

          him and tens of thousands like him.

          and there is very little fun.
      4. +3
        14 September 2013 12: 21
        I believe that Ukraine itself and the Ukrainian people deserve great respect and attention from our side, but not in the context of this article, but as fraternal people for us
        1. +5
          14 September 2013 13: 41
          Quote: Siberian German
          I believe that Ukraine itself and the Ukrainian people deserve


          but I believe that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people will get what they are striving for.

          in full ...
      5. 0
        14 September 2013 13: 45
        Quote: Kars
        I’ll insert a picture, so for fun))))

        All who are on the tank, except for the crew Ukrainians belay ?? wink (joke!)
      6. smprofi
        +1
        14 September 2013 15: 11
        Quote: Kars
        How nice so much attention to Ukraine.
        What is not a day is an article, or even a few.

        Kars, it's all very simple:
        Media: V. Surkov will return to the Kremlin to oversee Ukraine.

        On another forum, a comment about a person living in the Urals:
        As I understand it, with the advent of this character, on our Internet, the good old ho_hlo_sra_ch will be revived and undeservedly forgotten.

        von Bismarck and Dulles absolutely nothing to do with it, colleague Captain Vrungel absolutely right (Today, 11:05)
        1. +1
          14 September 2013 15: 26
          smprofi
          Of course, just Vasily, as I understand it, judging from your post, the neighbor is to blame for all your personal problems! Keep up the good work, go far! This approach is now welcomed in Western politics.
          1. smprofi
            +6
            14 September 2013 16: 08
            Quote: Sibiryak
            in all your personal problems, the neighbor is to blame!

            Well, how can I tell you ... if the Kremlin did give me a neighbor, then yes!
            as for Russia and its ordinary citizens - what do they have to do with it?

            and also, Valery, if the nickname Sibiryak is chosen by place of residence, I can say that somewhere near you, in Western Siberia, I have very many relatives (and not only there, and in other regions of Russia). so just harass obscenely all of Russia and all of the people personally, I don’t have any desire.
            1. +3
              14 September 2013 17: 01
              Quote: smprofi
              Well, how can I tell you ... if the Kremlin did give me a neighbor, then yes!

              But what about your government and the head of state, which should translate your dreams into reality ?! Are they not competent ?! In fact, you yourself chose them, and not those who are sitting in the Kremlin! Your leaders do whatever they get, and your criticism and dissatisfaction, oddly enough, go to the Kremlin! You do not find that you yourself and your leaders behave somehow incorrectly and for this very reason many questions arise for you.
              Quote: smprofi
              as for Russia and its ordinary citizens - what do they have to do with it?

              Part of our leadership we ourselves chose, so there is a certain relationship!
              My nickname corresponds to Vasily’s place of residence, but Krasnoyarsk is located in Eastern Siberia, come to relatives to Siberia more often, I think they will be very happy and believe me, we don’t have a separation between Russians and Ukrainians so that they don’t tell you, and I also welcome your position regarding Russia and the people.
              1. smprofi
                +4
                14 September 2013 17: 52
                Valery!
                Quote: Sibiryak
                But what about your government and the head of state, which should translate your dreams into reality ?! Are they not competent ?!

                Well, do not be naive! The lisping and Co are not concerned about the state and the lack of citizens, but about their well-being. as, however, and the previous Ryaby with his comrades. True, the farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans ... more precisely, each subsequent ruler is even worse than the previous one. and there’s no one to choose from. there are simply no normal people in politics!
                Quote: Sibiryak
                oddly enough, the Kremlin gets it!

                just because the Kremlin is the initiator of most of the "friction" and "troubles". and, again, not proceeding from the interests of the Russian state, but from the business interests of the residents of the Kremlin and their friends. well, sometimes based on personal grievances.

                Quote: Sibiryak
                Part of our leadership, we ourselves chose

                Well, yes, yes, with a turnout of 146% and full approval, with all the personnel who appeared laughing .
                Valery, once again I ask you: do not be naive! the last elections in Russia, somehow still relatively honest, were held in the year 96, when the EBN was reelected for a second term. and that is doubt. and then all.

                Quote: Sibiryak
                believe us, we don’t have a division between Russians and Ukrainians, so that they don’t tell you

                they don’t tell me. or let them say - I don’t listen to stupid things. which I advise you to: do not listen to nonsense about the same division (at least) of Eastern and Western Ukraine.
                as for the Ukrainians and Siberia, in particular, it would be very funny to have a negative attitude towards the Ukrainians in Siberia, if it was mostly immigrants from Ukraine who raised and developed Siberia, Western and Eastern, the Far East according to Stolypin reform at the beginning of the 80th century. in the region of the same Kemerovo there are villages where there were up to 90-XNUMX% of Ukrainians.

                in general ... you and me personally, Valery, have nothing to share. and to tear each other's shirts and more conveniently and clean each other's beak because of the behavior of our "favorite politicians" ... do you need it? to me - no.

                I will just repeat once again: all this "live" (and similar articles, including here on topwar), is not casual. and this is most likely just the beginning.
                1. +1
                  14 September 2013 20: 12
                  Quote: smprofi
                  all is not casual. and this is probably just the beginning.

                  Therefore, I say that it is necessary to unite, without presenting various conditions, but for the rest we will see! Yours faithfully hi !
                  1. smprofi
                    +4
                    14 September 2013 23: 05
                    and someone against the union? yes only for!
                    Yes, but not under the flags of the Duke of Cumberland, to be exact, the Tsar Ampirator All Gazprom.
                    1. 0
                      15 September 2013 05: 58
                      Quote: smprofi
                      yes only for! Yes, but not under the flags of the Duke of Cumberland, to be exact, the Tsar Ampirator All Gazprom.

                      Again conditions! Omitting political subtexts, personally, what did Gazprom prevent you from doing? And whose flag can you offer?
                  2. smprofi
                    +2
                    15 September 2013 01: 41
                    Quote: Sibiryak
                    and the rest wait and see!

                    Well, I didn't have to "live" for long:
                    “OMON officers at the Kuntsevskaya metro station on Saturday detained two Ukrainian citizens who had gas masks, containers with toxic substance and a device for spraying it,” said a spokesman for the Moscow police.

                    As explained by the Ukrainians, they work in a company that is engaged in the removal of insects from apartments and metropolitan offices.

                    Nevertheless, the police decided to check whether the testimonies of the detainees were true. The legality of the stay of detainees in the Russian Federation will also be checked.
                    1. 0
                      15 September 2013 06: 03
                      Quote: smprofi
                      Well, it didn’t take long to “live”: “On Saturday, riot police officers at the Kuntsevskaya metro station detained two Ukrainian citizens who had gas masks, containers with a poisonous substance and a device for spraying it,” said a Moscow police press officer.

                      This still does not mean anything, in such situations it is necessary to understand! In the family, as they say, there are deviations from the norm, and deviations not related to nationality!
                    2. 0
                      15 September 2013 18: 07
                      Well, everything is simple.
                      metro rules (from the "forbidden to carry" part):
                      2.10.3. Flammable, explosive, poisonous, toxic substances and objects, including household gas cylinders.

                      if I go with a can of diesel fuel, they will accept me too.
                      Thank God that people with suspicious cylinders will be checked in the subway. 8-)

                      = ^ _ ^ =
      7. 0
        14 September 2013 18: 04
        The soldier in the photo would have thrown a few grenades at the armor of his car, and closed the hatch itself inside tightly. These Motherland would bring much benefit, so many traitors at once lime.
      8. The comment was deleted.
      9. Anat1974
        0
        15 September 2013 01: 24
        In this photo, there is only one warrior in the subject.
    3. +6
      14 September 2013 12: 49
      My address
      But there is a drawback, not enough. There is not enough material, the role of the Austrian intelligence in the formation of the Ukrainian language is not specified, it is not told how and by whom the first "independent" governments were formed, and that the self-styled were always someone's henchmen for someone to keep .... This leaves loopholes for the Svidomites to shake off. :)))
      Dear normal Ukrainians, please note that our bay is not aimed at you but at some Svidomites and your government, as a result of which our countries seem to diverge like ships in the sea.
      1. +3
        14 September 2013 13: 56
        Quote: smile
        But there is a drawback, not enough.



        not only, it was not told about the creation of the first concentration camps in Europe - Thalerhof, which included Rusyns and Little Russians who did not want to consider themselves Ukrainians.
        http://films-online.su/forum/14-511-1


        Well, it would not hurt to write about the creation of the "Ukrainian" language.

        However, this already exists: http://oko-planet.su/fail/failbook/155069-aleksandr-karevin-rus-nerusskaya.html
        1. Corneli
          -4
          14 September 2013 14: 40
          Quote: Rider
          not only, it was not told about the creation of the first concentration camps in Europe - Thalerhof, which included Rusyns and Little Russians who did not want to consider themselves Ukrainians.

          Rusyns and Bukovyns (originally born residents of the Transcarpathian, Ternopil regions), i.e. "zapadentsy-svidomity" became Russians and Little Russians ?! belay laughing
          Damn, I can not)))) laughing laughing laughing
          1. +11
            14 September 2013 14: 47
            Quote: Corneli
            Rusyns and Bukovyns (originally born residents of the Transcarpathian, Ternopil regions), i.e. "zapadentsy-svidomity" became Russians and Little Russians ?!


            Today it simply does not fit into the consciousness that even a hundred years ago, Count Vladimir Bobrinsky, speaking in the State Duma, could justifiably say: "How to love Russia and fight for it, we all need to learn from the Galicians." It may also seem unbelievable, but in those not so distant by historical standards, the times of Galicia, she is Galicia (Galich is the first capital of the Galicia-Volyn principality), in terms of pro-Russian sentiment, it was not much inferior to the current Donbass, and in the number of members of pro-Moscow organizations surpassed modern Crimea.

            http://www.stoletie.ru/vzglyad/antirusskaja_matrica_129.htm


            I advise you Oleg to start learning the history of his land and people.
          2. +2
            14 September 2013 15: 23
            Quote: Corneli
            Rusyns and Bukovyns (originally born residents of the Transcarpathian, Ternopil regions), i.e. "zapadentsy-svidomity" became Russians and Little Russians ?!
            Damn, I can not))))


            wassat you can))))
    4. serge-68-68
      +7
      14 September 2013 15: 04
      The article, perhaps, is beautiful, only Bismarck did not say this so-and-so-worn phrase ...
    5. +1
      14 September 2013 18: 50
      What are you guys talking about? After all, I love you. Stop dogging!
    6. 0
      15 September 2013 18: 15
      It is difficult to spoil the facts: indeed, for most of history, the concept of Ukraine was territorial, not national.
      Yes, the Austro-Hungarian empire had a hand in formalizing the concept of Ukrainians.
      But ... there is such a thing - ethnogenesis.
      Yes, two hundred years ago there were no Ukrainians as a modern nation, but many cultural scientists and historians believe that the Russian people finally developed by the middle of the 19th century.
      So - we are just present at the final registration of several peoples from the previous community - Russians.
      Like, dislike - a matter of taste, but the process seems to be objective.
      And the upcoming Vilnius: in fact, the signature of the symbol.
      For the value of this document will be only symbolic - Ukraine will be an EU market for it, and not a full equal part, and this, with the loss of enormous economic benefits from trade with Russia - says a lot, not just the interests of the oligarchs, traitors to politicians, etc. .P.
      Both oligarchs and politicians behave only as conditions allow, the same people.
      Old wisdom - every nation deserves the government that it has.
  2. +21
    14 September 2013 08: 31
    Otto von Bismarck:
    “The power of Russia can only be undermined by separating Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, to pit two parts of a single people and watch how a brother will kill his brother. To do this, you only need to find and nurture traitors among the national elite and, with their help, change the identity of one part of the great people to such an extent that they will hate everything Russian, hate their kind, without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”
    The first part has already been completed by the collapse of the Soviet Union: Ukraine has been separated from Russia, the second is being implemented now. To push one people against one’s foreheads is the dream of the West.
    1. +7
      14 September 2013 08: 43
      Quote: major071
      The first part has already been completed by the collapse of the Soviet Union: Ukraine has been separated from Russia, the second is being implemented now. To push one people against one’s foreheads is the dream of the West.

      I can imagine how much money Yanukovych received "from this dream" into his own pocket!
      When solving geopolitical tasks, the West does not particularly stand on ceremony with the laws, it can be seen on the fate of Gorbachev!
      1. +4
        14 September 2013 16: 35
        Quote: APASUS
        When solving geopolitical tasks, the West does not particularly stand on ceremony with laws,

        “The law on the referendum, adopted at the suggestion of the Ukrainian authorities, is extremely dangerous for the stability of Ukraine.
        This was stated European Commission Secretary for Democracy through Law Thomas Markert
        "I would not like to speculate about the motives of the Ukrainian authorities. However, I think that the existence of the possibility that virtually anything can be changed by a referendum is extremely dangerous for the country's stability," Markert said in an interview with Deutsche Welle.
        http://lb.ua/news/2013/06/26/208892_evropa_schitaet_zakon_referendume.html
        xxxxxx
        This is a reaction to the attempts of the Communist Party to hold a referendum for joining the CU !!!!
        Well, where are human rights and democracy?
        1. +3
          14 September 2013 17: 06
          Quote: Egoza
          Well, where are human rights and democracy?


          Well, you, democracy, it is for the elite.
          and the natives should do what the white lord orders.

          laughing
    2. +7
      14 September 2013 14: 47
      I remember the mess of '93, in general, I sit in a tavern quietly, with vodka, in the corner a peasant of about 50, in a short time after an hour and a half we drink together, it turns out that the Chekist, the general. Then we sit we are worried about vodka with herring, well, I served him 81-83 in the 40th army, he was the same in those places, by one o'clock in the morning he got drunk, he said interesting words “Belarusian, Russian, Ukrainian and Kazakh cannot come to Pushcha drag him, well, you can still do without a Kazakh, but without a Ukrainian, well, no matter how, in general, the Tanovites dumped him a billion of greens, I came and signed "I didn't believe him then. But now, after all the election campaigns, the orange revolutions, and of course the expected gay integration of Ukraine - I BELIEVE.
      1. 0
        15 September 2013 10: 16
        Quote: Chegevara
        .But now, after all the elective companies, the orange revolutions, and of course the expectedly expected geyintegration of Ukraine - I BELIEVE.

        I remember the IMF was very indignant after they transferred the next monetary tranche of Russia, and on the morning of August 17, 1998 they defaulted. And why should I be surprised?
    3. +2
      14 September 2013 19: 07
      And let it be only a dream. This I say, SLAVAN
    4. xan
      +4
      14 September 2013 21: 34
      Quote: major071
      The first part has already been completed by the collapse of the Soviet Union: Ukraine has been separated from Russia, the second is being implemented now. To push one people against one’s foreheads is the dream of the West.

      enough of these snot already separated and what, to sue them?
      it is necessary to do something without which there is no strong state - to deal with the country's economy and its social problems. Whining is not our method; our ancestors did not build an empire by whining.
      But the Ukrainians did not feel like one with the Russian people, well, the flag in their hands. They clearly considered the Russians dumber and stupid themselves.
      Like one comment
      The popularity of the brothers who have fallen away from Russia is understandable: in the USSR they were part of a great country, a superpower, and now they are the provincial backyards of Europe, playing "what you please". And the spectacle of how Russia WITHOUT THEM regains its former influence, of course, causes a wild cognitive dissonance, they say, "How is it that we are nothing, but they are not? That is, the achievements of the USSR were really possible without us? That is, we just sticky fish, parasites, and besides, they are also stupid, since they themselves have left the feeding organism "? and a normal defense reaction is to declare that this is all untrue and only it seems, and to start demanding equality." Everything is simple and unoriginal. Get used to it, brothers, this is life.
      In Ukraine, Russians need only those who consider themselves to be one people with the Russians, and who will be with the Russians in any situation. And of course, with the earth. The rest let them build their independent Ukraine, though it doesn’t work.
      And further. Ukrainians, do you really think that you make some unique chocolates or will we say pipes there that you can’t do without in Russia? Salaries in Russia are higher, which means some products are more expensive. To launch Ukrainian goods on the market means to leave their jobs without work. In such cases, any normal state will protect its market, and therefore its higher standard of living. And if for a friendly state this can be done, then for an unfriendly, and Ukraine an unfriendly state - no. Russia behaves like a normal state, and for some reason, this causes the Ukrainians to cry out for twisting their arms and forcing friendship. Forget your friend Europe, they beg for preferences and other nishtyaki.
      Independent - behave as an adult, without whining, tantrums and snot.
      By and large, there are no good sponsors and freeloaders in the international arena, this is capitalism. For an apparent freebie you will always pay with something. You can only rely on yourself. In Russia, they understand this, and Ukrainians hope in Europe.
      Miracles do not happen.
  3. +19
    14 September 2013 08: 44
    A lot of fuel is added to the fire and articles on the site like "war between Ukraine and the Russian Federation ...."
    1. MG42
      +4
      14 September 2013 11: 53
      A trade war between Ukraine and Russia can become quite real in the light of recent events, especially in the second half of this fall ..
      1. xan
        +1
        15 September 2013 00: 30
        Quote: MG42
        A trade war between Ukraine and Russia can become quite real in the light of recent events, especially in the second half of this fall ..

        this is not a trade war, it is the protection of its producer. Conditions for Ukraine will be the same as conditions for any European country. This will be logical and fair in relation to our companies, and to foreign companies that have located their production with us. Another policy is the policy of "sucker and stupid", for which the Kremlin clearly does not pull
    2. +5
      14 September 2013 12: 55
      xetai9977
      Of course, after all, the author in that article was clearly not on the side of Russia, and for some reason they add fuel to the fire from that side. :)))
    3. +8
      14 September 2013 13: 42
      Quote: xetai9977
      A lot of fuel is added to the fire and articles on the site like "war between Ukraine and the Russian Federation ...."


      By the way, about this possible war (as such), one elderly "nerd" from the Rada raised the topic, long before it was announced about Ukraine's turn in the "wrong" direction.
    4. +3
      14 September 2013 16: 37
      Quote: xetai9977
      A lot of fuel is added to the fire and articles on the site like "war between Ukraine and the Russian Federation ...."

      You are mistaken. Such an article is an explanation of how young people are fooled in Ukraine. On the one hand, they talk about war, and on the other,
      "The law on an all-Ukrainian referendum is legally not entirely decent, and everything possible must be done so that the referendum does not take place in Ukraine.
      This was stated by ex-head of the Central Election Commission Vladimir Shapoval in an interview with the newspaper Ukraine Young.
      Shapoval recalled, "my position is this: an all-Ukrainian referendum on any issue will split society, which is already divided."
      http://lb.ua/news/2013/09/13/226220_eksglava_tsik_zakon_referendume.html?utm_sou

      rce = lbua & utm_medium = link & utm_campaign = mainitem
      XXXX
      And God forbid, they will lead them and it turns out that the people are not seeking Europe! laughing
      1. +2
        14 September 2013 19: 01
        Elena, welcome!
        As far as I know, recently one of the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada from Odessa, the PR faction, specifically Markov, was deprived of the mandate. Could you clarify? Just hit one of the comments on the Ukrainian site.


        Who, whom, but Markov needed to shoot at the end of the day, shit out of the way, scream, wriggled out of the way, so that you doused the end of the gasoline, and p_palit_, and take a look at the camera, and I know that you don’t need to know more than 5 times I’m fucking pig in Ukraine.
        I surplus life, let’s live, and to the end of my life a little роз щ є, schozavlivayuschayav havalnik proti Ukraine.

        transfer:
        Someone, and Markov, needs to be shot in the limbs so that he writhes in pain, then doused his limbs with gasoline and set it on fire, and filmed on the camera and distributed on the internet so that other scum from the 5th column knew that they were waiting for them for their pig activities in Ukraine. And leave to live, let him live, and until the end of his worthless life, he regrets that he has yawned against Ukraine

        Thank you.
        1. +2
          14 September 2013 19: 56
          Quote: Garrin
          recently one of the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada from Odessa, the PR faction, specifically Markov, was deprived of the mandate.

          Markov has consistently and openly advocated joining the Customs Union. And despite the "suggestion" of the president, made especially for the deputies of the PR, he did not give up his position. And "suddenly" it turned out that the results of the elections (from 2012) at his site are being questioned. Former People's Deputy Y. Karmazin sues and ... Markov is deprived of his mandate. True, he has not yet given it up and will defend his mandate in court. It should also be noted that Markov was the head of the public organization "Rodina" in Odessa and all anti-fascist and anti-nationalist actions of young people took place at the suggestion of this organization. True, the guys did not always "collide" with "Svoboda"
          1. xan
            +1
            14 September 2013 22: 04
            Quote: Egoza
            Markov consistently and openly advocates joining the Customs Union. And despite the "suggestion" of the president, made especially for the deputies of the PR, he did not give up his position.

            Well, it turns out there are pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine!
            1. maxvet
              +1
              15 September 2013 13: 28
              Quote: xan
              Well, it turns out there are pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine!

              rather not pro-Russian, but adequate
  4. andru_007
    +6
    14 September 2013 09: 04
    I am glad that this question is being raised. I think in the end, reason prevails, part of the Russian people (which were artificially divided) will be stigmatized by Ukrainians (Ukrainians), and we will unite, God forbid!
    1. Paul 23rus
      +5
      14 September 2013 09: 32
      Yes, only how to tell Ukraine this .....
      1. M. Peter
        +10
        14 September 2013 09: 39
        Simply and easily!
        Of course, they throw me tomatoes and rotten eggs for my views ...
        If Ukraine becomes part of the Eurasian Union, the new state should process the younger generations of Russian people in Ukraine, through the Ministry of Education. To throw rubbish about the fraternal peoples in the trash, there are no fraternal peoples, there is one single Russian people and that’s it. Two or three generations can be forgotten about Ukrainians.
        1. Paul 23rus
          +1
          14 September 2013 10: 05
          Well, it is clear that work in this direction is already underway at the United Football Championship as an example, and knowing their attitude to this, I want to say not so much that they want to unite, even in football ...
        2. +7
          14 September 2013 13: 52
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          If Ukraine becomes part of the Eurasian Union, the new state should process the younger generations of Russian people in Ukraine, through the Ministry of Education. To throw rubbish about the fraternal peoples in the trash, there are no fraternal peoples, there is one single Russian people and that’s it. Two or three generations can be forgotten about Ukrainians.


          An example of Serbia.
          To begin with, they "handed over" Milosevic for the promised, but still not received, loan to rebuild the country after the bombing by the US and NATO forces, from the US (!) And they NEVER will. The "orange" revolution has taken place in the country, a generation comes to the leadership of the country, for whom historical ties with Russia are an empty and useless phrase.
          I think that the example and analogy are more than visual.

          PS Thank God, the Serbs had the mind not to invent their own super-ethnos, rooted in the birth of the universe.
          1. M. Peter
            +2
            14 September 2013 16: 05
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            PS Thank God, the Serbs had the mind not to invent their own super-ethnos, rooted in the birth of the universe.

            The Serbs, this story happened earlier than ours, the Croats who are you?
            1. +4
              14 September 2013 16: 11
              Quote: M.Pyotr
              The Serbs, this story happened earlier than ours, the Croats who are you?


              In our opinion - let's not?
              If you really want to, go to the branch about Scythian Russia.
              hi
        3. +5
          14 September 2013 16: 31
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          To throw rubbish about the fraternal peoples in the trash, there are no fraternal peoples, there is one single Russian people and that’s it.

          And here I disagree. Many feats during the Second World War and glorious deeds in peaceful life under the USSR were performed by people who considered themselves Ukrainians. Therefore, indiscriminate denial-prohibition is an insult to their memory. Another thing is that you need to explain that there was Little Russia. And the word "Little Russian" does not mean "little brother". On the contrary, As Athens - Central Greece was the cradle of Hellas - Greater Greece, so Little Russia-Kievan Rus was the cradle of the Great Russians. Well, there was a period when the enemies of the Russian people - the Rus, Rusyns decided to tear them away from Russia, they called those who lived on the outskirts "Okraintsy" - Ukrainians. So this is also nothing humiliating. People living on the outskirts have always been guards, border guards who took care of the main land. If you want to be called Ukrainians, please, just don't forget your history. By the way, the "classic" Ukrainian language is the Poltava dialect, which was diligently developed by Russian ethnographers and, in particular, the poet Olena Pchilka, a Russian noblewoman who was carried away by her husband's ethnographic work, mastered this dialect of peasants in a month and began to write poetry. And beloved T.G. Shevchenko wrote in the Little Russian language, and considered himself a Little Russian. This is later, his poems were "combed" under the modern language, and go to his museum, where the originals of his works ... like this, slowly, little by little. but do not wave a saber!
          1. M. Peter
            0
            14 September 2013 17: 05
            Quote: Egoza
            And here I do not agree.

            And no one says that you need to convince the current ones living in Ukraine, with a similar one you should not even try. Transformation into Ukrainians went much like bloody. Thalerhof repeat in the opposite direction is not worth it. But the Soviet experience is just right, quietly re-educate back in Russian.
        4. The comment was deleted.
    2. +2
      14 September 2013 09: 44
      that there is one big BUT, there must be a Desire, I got the impression that the Ukrainians, as usual, decided to sit out in the caches, and faith in the home-grown "Putin" kills like that, there will be no second Putin
      1. M. Peter
        +5
        14 September 2013 10: 08
        The state of Ukraine will sell for any. This misunderstanding does not have to exist for long, it is an anti-Russian project in its essence. All their fuss about this speaks, even accession to the EU, or rather joining the FTZ between the EU and Ukraine, because it simply contradicts common sense. As they say, to spite mom’s frostbitten ears ..
  5. Asan Ata
    +14
    14 September 2013 09: 14
    Divide and conquer (lat. Divide et impera), long ago invented the formula of enslavement. I think that even in the 4th century it was pronounced by the Pope when he was developing a policy of exterminating the Huns and their descendants. The march of Genghis Khan's troops to the "last sea" added hatred. Bismarck said: "You can love the whole world, try to love your neighbor." In general, Europe naturally does not associate itself with the culture of Asia, and destroying its neighbor from the East is its primary task. And here they run into the Nevsky, Suvorov, Kutuzov, Putin.
    1. +1
      14 September 2013 14: 10
      Quote: Asan Ata
      Divide and conquer (Latin divide et impera), a long time ago invented formula


      vabscheto the formula sounds a little different (as in Latin do not know), but in our opinion, this is so - divide, DRAIN, and conquer.

      it was just a little "ennobled" by silenced the middle link.

      here is another example of an information war.
      by changing the wording, they justify by antiquity essentially the HUMAN law.

      and in vain it is attributed to the Latins (they simply developed and brought it to perfection), traces of this kind of "rule" can be traced back in the Old Testament.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. July
    +1
    14 September 2013 09: 19
    Yes, I somehow did not think that such are the "roots". What do you call the yacht ...
  8. +5
    14 September 2013 09: 28
    Quote: Sibiryak
    Everything new is well forgotten old!


    Our enemies, however bitter it may sound, is precisely "nothing is forgotten." Unlike us, the Slavs, whose brains were washed en masse by Ydomason propaganda and whose spirit began to decay, the situation with the knowledge of their roots and memory is purposefully and planned deteriorating.
  9. +6
    14 September 2013 09: 33
    It is impossible to defeat the Russians, we have seen this for hundreds of years. But you can instill false values, and then they will defeat themselves!
  10. Gennady1973
    +19
    14 September 2013 09: 37
    I would like to ask: Ukrainians, Russians, Belarusians, what can we not share? why are they trying to push our heads against us? which of us won after each of us gained its "independence"? became free? from whom? why all this dirt on each other? Are we really going to listen to a few kovs of which there are enough in each of the republics? I served with the guys from Ukraine, we are friends and now and for each of them I will tear my mouth so as not to blather about enmity and hatred
    1. +3
      14 September 2013 09: 56
      Bred as suckers and all. am
    2. +2
      14 September 2013 14: 17
      Quote: Gennady1973
      I want to ask. Ukrainians, Russians, Belarusians. What can not we share?


      AUTHORITY and FEEDER.

      however, this applies only to a small population.
      and everyone else is hammered into their heads with ideas about "independence and special choice"
  11. +2
    14 September 2013 09: 47
    and someone doubted?)
  12. +6
    14 September 2013 09: 59
    It is strange that, for example, the name Little Russia is unpleasant to me, unlike New Russia, which I can at least understand. But to be called novoros is not pleasant. Well, purely humanly unpleasant, and not politically. And it’s nice for a Ukrainian. Again, humanly, territorially and psychologically. And it’s unpleasant for the same reasons to hear Little Russia (as if to hear the same Valuev Circular again)
    Let's do this - you at least take into account we were the Ukrainian SSR - the Ukrainian republic, why should we instill a name that is not entirely pleasant to us - Malorosiya (without giving in details) - it even sounds somehow strange, as if there are "few Russians"
    generations grew up in the Ukrainian SSR and in Ukraine. Not opposing yourself to Russian. With a Russian as a relative, problems begin at the household level - who called whom whom, where he sent, how he said to live, etc.
    Honestly, like children, and from what we call each other, there is a tendency to be offended very much.
    I was born in the Ukrainian SSR, and not Novorossia (but I know that there was a province) I have the right given by the Soviet government to even be called Ukrainian. And I respect the USSR very much. The country where I was born.
    1. Radoslav
      0
      14 September 2013 10: 34
      Never in its history was Novorossiya called Ukraine, this is a historical name. Read the story of Karamzin. He wrote the book "The History of the Creation of the Russian State" two hundred years ago, and nowhere does he call Novorossia Ukraine. And if you don't want to know and rely on facts, then go play with dolls.
    2. +2
      14 September 2013 10: 45
      Quote: Cristall
      I have the right given by the Soviet power even to be called Ukrainian. And I respect the USSR very much. Country where I was born

      Here is the Soviet government, much more Bismarck has done to turn the southern Russians into Ukrainians. I even think that the USSR project existed specifically to secure this term in the minds of southern Russians. As soon as the term Ukrainian became strong, as soon as the southern Russians were not pleased to call themselves a true name, the USSR was thrown into the trash.
      NATIONAL COMPOSITION OF LVIV IN 1900
      160 thousand inhabitants:
      - Poles 50%;
      - Russians (Uniates) 15%;
      - Jews 30%;
      - Germans 5%

      Where are the Ukrainians?!?!?
      1. Corneli
        +5
        14 September 2013 13: 53
        Quote: ATATA
        Here is the Soviet government, much more Bismarck has done to turn the southern Russians into Ukrainians. I even think that the USSR project existed specifically to secure this term in the minds of southern Russians. As soon as the term Ukrainian became strong, as soon as the southern Russians were not pleased to call themselves a true name, the USSR was thrown into the trash.

        One thing is not clear to me, if you are ATATA so badly about the "project of the USSR" What is the USSR's flag?
        1. 0
          14 September 2013 14: 21
          Quote: Corneli
          One thing is not clear to me, if you are ATATA so badly about the "project of the USSR" What is the USSR's flag?

          I am a product of the USSR project, this is my homeland.
          And for me, the USSR = Russia.
      2. -1
        14 September 2013 16: 47
        Quote: ATATA
        Where are the Ukrainians?!?!?

        On the Carpathian Heights! The incoming servant was not included in the census.
    3. +1
      14 September 2013 14: 20
      Quote: Cristall
      it even sounds strange, as if there are few Russians


      as you correctly noticed.

      really - few Russians

      but it is full of Ukrainians.

      maybe this is the problem, do you think?
    4. +2
      14 September 2013 15: 01
      Yes, there’s no need to be angry, it’s understandable 80 years, several generations, and also considering that your father, grandfather were Ukrainians, I don’t want to be a Little Russian. This is a story, well, about 400 years ago and before the beginning of the 20th century, it was called Little Russian as Ukrainian, the same thing no one would have perceived. Nevertheless, here on the site you must be ethical and respect each other. I apologize for everyone who could behave incorrectly in nat. issue.
    5. MG42
      +3
      14 September 2013 16: 32
      Quote: Cristall
      Я was born in the Ukrainian SSR, and not Novorossia (but I know that there was a province) I have the right to be called by the Soviet authorities even Ukrainian. And I respect the USSR very much. Country where am i was born.

      How you read these lines and see the girl in the photo is hard to read ..
    6. +1
      14 September 2013 16: 44
      Quote: Cristall
      And it’s unpleasant for the same reasons to hear Little Russia (as if to hear the same Valuev Circular again)

      And you read what "Little Russia" is and the same Valuevsky circular FULLY. Pay attention to the political situation of that time, what happened in history (at least in Vika) - a completely different impression will be. hi
    7. Asan Ata
      +3
      15 September 2013 00: 52
      There were many Ukrainians in tsarist Russia (I read it somewhere in a serious publication). To my ear, Ukraine sounds like a suburb, apparently one word. It is clear that for 100 years the region was called Ukraine, and this name became native. In general, we used to be called Kyrgyz, Kyrgyz-Kaysaks, God knows how. We called ourselves a Cossack, unlike the Cossacks, with soft "k" at the beginning and at the end, qazaq. And now we are Kazakhstan (I think, "x" - for the sake of the historically formed name). So - how did the Ukrainians call themselves before the Ukraine, the Ukrainian SSR?
  13. mox
    mox
    +4
    14 September 2013 10: 00
    Four articles with the inclusion of Ukraine on one page.
    Is that a weekend osracha?

    Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles, and in the pursuit of comments, you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass towards the EU.
    Write better about military equipment, the army and the navy. The yellowness and prejudice simply nuzzled.
    1. 0
      14 September 2013 10: 27
      Quote: mox
      Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles, and in the pursuit of comments, you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass towards the EU.

      Do not exaggerate. With all due respect to the site, it is somehow doubtful that Putin and Yanukovych read it. It seems that even extracts from articles, and especially comments, are unlikely to find their way to the table of top officials.
      1. Corneli
        +4
        14 September 2013 14: 20
        Quote: Nagan
        Do not exaggerate. With all due respect to the site, it is somehow doubtful that Putin and Yanukovych read it. It seems that even extracts from articles, and especially comments, are unlikely to find their way to the table of top officials.

        You know ... "Tsars" may not read ... but people do.
        About 5 years ago, it hung tightly on the site "inosmi", it was interesting to read a foreign, so to speak, opinion. And I had (and stayed) a friend-translator (who often went abroad for work) after reading that site, he advised me not to believe him too much ... Because the articles published there (according to him) had a pronounced anti-Russian orientation, or just delusional articles that showed the open stupidity of the Western "people". And he tried to convince me, banally letting me read newspapers like The Times, all sorts of Western magazines, tried to show (prove) that there is no such thing there (or, in other words, the topics that INOSMI pushes out in the press are not basic ... so sometimes they write cheto ) then I did not believe him and sent him) And he was not a "Svidomite" or a Russophobe, for the sake of clarification)
        But recently, my opinion began to change ... Moreover, not even on this site or Inosmi, but thanks to mail.ru. I automatically load it when I turn on the browser ... and you immediately see the TOP news. So, the news there (by headlines) is exclusively, mmm ... strange, in short (I wanted to say differently))) Every day, stupidity on stupidity (in terms of Ukraine) is quite often some kind of "slogans" coming out, negative towards Russia (and out of the blue). You go to the article ... there is rudeness and hysterics and at the same time such clever uncles (and most of the Ukrainians), these articles and especially "gifted" comments (usually with obscenities and outright stupidity) are beautifully refuting. it surprised me right away, then it started to jar (well, can't there be such a garbage? in terms of persecuting Russia), and then ... I looked at the sites from which the enti "news" are taken. And this is just xs for sites) began to compare "top mail ru" with the main news sites of the Ukrainian media and found that those "top news" and endless "vyser" in the news read simply NO !!!
        In general, I came to a disappointing conclusion ... you, dear Russians and numb dear Ukrainians, are corny "zombified" and set against each other! Hence all these "selective" and frankly provocative articles (you read it and it just burns to write ... ideally with maths). WHAT'S WHAT ?! THIS is a "project" ... I xs ... but I DON'T LIKE it VERY MUCH !!!!
        1. +3
          14 September 2013 14: 30
          Quote: Corneli
          But recently, my opinion has begun to change ... Moreover, not even on this site or Inosmi, but thanks to mail.ru. It loads automatically when I turn on the browser ...


          I advise you to remove the soap from the start page.
          it (soap), like rambler and NG, is literally riddled with news of a certain nature that evokes negativity.
          at first it is imperceptible, but after six months of viewing, you clearly realize the bias of "news"

          I recommend the site "Eye of the Planet"

          and by the way, you should not have begun to change your mind about the foreign press.
          Certainly 90% of the news there does NOT concern Russia, but in the remaining it is precisely the opinion voiced on foreign media that prevails.
          the exception is newspapers whose circulation does not exceed 1000 copies.

          and INOSMI is a cool site, it’s a pity that they banned me there.
        2. +3
          14 September 2013 15: 11
          I could put + I would, I'm new - no way. We study history - we think, and then we drink half a liter, and everything ends like this "you respect me." Therefore, my neighbor and I have had a friendship for 30 years already. We know each other very well, we help, we eat besparmak on holidays (he is Kazakh).
        3. +1
          14 September 2013 16: 52
          Quote: Corneli
          thanks to mail.ru It loads automatically with me, when you turn on the browser ... and immediately see the TOP news

          I have the same picture ... So I do not look at this mail.ru. did not have time to boot up - I immediately go to interesting sites. hi
          1. +1
            14 September 2013 17: 09
            Quote: Egoza
            I have the same picture ..


            I don’t understand what you are suffering.

            select the "home page" in the browser settings, insert your favorite site (at least the same VO) and enjoy.
        4. xan
          0
          15 September 2013 01: 01
          Quote: Corneli
          Moreover, not even on this site or Inosmi, but thanks to mail.ru. It loads automatically with me, when you turn on the browser ... and immediately see the top news. So, the news there (according to the headlines) is exclusively, mmm ... strange shorter (I wanted to say something different))) Every day, stupidity on stupidity (in terms of Ukraine)

          !
          and where did you see on the soap the news about Ukraine, and even every day?
          1. Corneli
            +1
            15 September 2013 01: 13
            Quote: xan
            !
            and where did you see on the soap the news about Ukraine, and even every day?

            As I understand it, depending on the ip, the mail loads the "native" page, with the country and the city (he writes the weather to me in Kiev, on the main page)
            1. maxvet
              +1
              15 September 2013 13: 42
              I was on the soap before about auto news and comments, and now I’ve left comments on any news (especially about Russian cars) such a srach that “Mom don’t cry,” I tried to read political and military comments, but I didn’t even beat the first page. some trolls are going
    2. +2
      14 September 2013 10: 57
      Quote: mox
      Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles,

      But can you essentially say something, or do you think that fairy tales about the fact that Bismarck and his ilk invented the Ukrainians are the machinations of those sworn to her?
      1. not good
        +1
        14 September 2013 12: 19
        The fact that Bismarck in the appearance of Ukraine played a role of doubt is less than the existence of ancient ukrov laughing
        1. +3
          14 September 2013 15: 14
          Russians were famous for kindness, hospitality and patience. Respect other nationalities. Good luck
    3. MG42
      +4
      14 September 2013 12: 14
      Quote: mox
      Gentlemen administration site. Your Ukrainophobic articles, and in the pursuit of comments, you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass towards the EU. Write better about military equipment, the army and the navy. The yellowness and prejudice simply nuzzled.

      If you don’t like the article, you just can’t not read it, otherwise such comments as a carbon copy .. change the text for a change ..
      Downloading the rights on a Russian site is just ridiculous, just imagine >> Russians on Ukrainian sites will demand the same, so there are more comments without obscenities, and you read the <Censor> for example what the Ukrainians write there .. wassat
      1. MG42
        +5
        14 September 2013 13: 27
        Here read the mox of today's pearl in the Ukrainian internet >> and especially the comments fool
        Customs wars of Russia against neighboring countries MAP map just like in WWII

        http://censor.net.ua/photo_news/253449/tamojennye_voyiny_rossii_protiv_sosednih_




        country_karta

        Before you climb with your charter in a strange monastery ..
      2. +1
        14 September 2013 14: 36
        Quote: MG42
        there are also comments without obscenities, and you read <Censor> for example what the Ukrainians write there.


        and what on "unian" write ...
        1. MG42
          +3
          14 September 2013 16: 22
          Quote: Rider
          and what on "unian" write ...

          ... comments on the article >>

          Russia attributed defeat in the information war for the Customs Union

          http://www.unian.net/news/594570-rossii-pripisali-porajenie-v-informatsionnoy-vo


          yne-za-tamojennyiy-soyuz.html

          Onishchenko admitted that he unreasonably suspected Roshen of re-export schemes

          http://www.unian.net/news/593648-onischenko-priznal-chto-bezosnovatelno-podozrev


          al-roshen-v-reeksportnyih-shemah.html

          So what about the local storytellers .. wassat
          Although there it should be noted mutual srach as well as on the censor ..
    4. MG42
      +2
      14 September 2013 23: 33
      Quote: mox
      and in the pursuit of comments you just shove the citizens of Ukraine in the ass

      The phrases are not unambiguous whom they shove in the ass .. why can’t you write, just push in the direction of the EU? wassat
      Geyropa has already come to Ukraine for a long time, many foreigners travel in search of wives that they could not find in their countries, English is often heard, there is still not enough gaiturism, although I saw two comrades with earrings in their ears and holding hands yesterday. .
      By the way, one of the last laws adopted for European integration concerns gays so that Ukrainian employers do not infringe on their rights ..
  14. Radoslav
    -15
    14 September 2013 10: 18
    It is necessary to bring Russian troops into Southeastern Ukraine, before it is too late, the population of these regions will support the actions of Russia. Otherwise, we may lose Ukraine forever and the American goats and pederalist Europe will approach the borders of Russia
    1. +11
      14 September 2013 10: 25
      do you even understand what you are offering? have a bite to eat.
      1. Radoslav
        0
        14 September 2013 11: 00
        Yes, I clearly acknowledge and understand that if decisive measures are not taken now, then after some time it will be too late, the American and European military will approach the borders of Russia, and no matter how much they assure us of their peace, sooner or later they will fall upon Russia, and then there will be no longer either the Ukrainian or Russian nation, again turn to history, always Russia and fraternal Slavic peoples fought for their independence and self-determination with the West, we were for them, are and will be wild peoples, barbarians. And the fact that you need to act decisively look at America, they wanted to bomb Iraq, they wanted to fight in Afghanistan and they fought, they wanted to overthrow the legitimate government in Libya, and they overthrew, they decided to bomb Syria, and you see, they’ll do it, guys without complexes, they know what they need, and where they had a conscience, you know what grew up there. And when I drink, I not only snack but also drink
        1. +4
          14 September 2013 14: 04
          Quote: Radoslav
          Yes, I clearly acknowledge and understand that if decisive measures are not taken now, after some time it will be too late, the American and European militaries will approach the borders of Russia,


          look towards the Baltic states. West and America 400km from St. Petersburg.

          Quote: Radoslav
          And when I drink, I not only snack but also drink


          I’m glad that you have a snack, but rather drink it with surrogate wine. Otherwise, you can’t explain what you are offering here.
          1. Radoslav
            -1
            14 September 2013 15: 48
            You drank a little today, I don’t drink wine with wine, in Russia there is no such tradition, believe me.
        2. -1
          14 September 2013 14: 35
          Truly, the Slavophiles are worse than the liberals.
          1. +1
            14 September 2013 18: 22
            Quote: rlanry
            Truly, the Slavophiles are worse than the liberals.

            Very similar to the slogans of white bellies. And give a detailed answer.
            Before receiving an answer - minus mine.
    2. mox
      mox
      +5
      14 September 2013 10: 52
      Urgently run to the military registration and enlistment office to register as a machine gun driver!
    3. +6
      14 September 2013 11: 08
      Quote: Radoslav
      It is necessary to introduce Russian troops into Southeastern Ukraine, before it is too late, the population of these regions support

      I personally promise support, I won’t show much. That I haven’t heard from any citizens of neighboring and not so countries about the desire to send troops to Ukraine, except for .. brothers .. from the Russian Federation)))
      1. Radoslav
        +2
        14 September 2013 11: 40
        So you are from western Ukraine. Secondly, then you will soon be licking shoes for the Nigers of the American army, and thirdly, Bendera boldly fought during the war, a lot has been written about it, they ran and hid in rat-like holes, from the Soviet Army, but they fought bravely with women and children. so Anika is a warrior.
        1. Darakht
          +1
          14 September 2013 13: 59
          Quote: Radoslav
          So you are from western Ukraine. Secondly, then you will soon be licking shoes for the Nigers of the American army, and thirdly, Bendera boldly fought during the war, a lot has been written about it, they ran and hid in rat-like holes, from the Soviet Army, but they fought bravely with women and children. so Anika is a warrior.

          I cried :) He is not from the West, I'm a pancake from the West. Where are the mass shoes of Joe? lol
        2. +3
          14 September 2013 15: 20
          Quote: Radoslav
          So you are from western Ukraine

          Generally South, Southeast.
          Quote: Radoslav
          Secondly, then you will soon be licking shoes niggas of the American army

          Why?
          Quote: Radoslav
          third, how Bendera boldly fought during the war, a lot has been written about this, they fled and hid in rat-like holes, from the Soviet Army, but they fought bravely with women and children. This is Anika the warrior.
          Well, one of my grandfathers defended Lenegrad, the second reached Danzig. And secondly, they didn’t particularly defend the methods of the so-called ... Bendera ... there were many different branches - they were not given other tactics, maybe they had to call the Guards Tank for an honest battle The army?

          and for myself I personally vouch for you, meeting with flowers and sweets (naturally Roshen with gasoline)
          1. Radoslav
            +3
            14 September 2013 15: 42
            My grandfather also fought, but he began to fight in Finnish, and finished Koenigsberg in 1945, and then we were together and therefore won.
            1. +2
              14 September 2013 16: 16
              Quote: Radoslav
              , and then we were together therefore and Won.

              why did they lose the Russo-Japanese? Or do I pre-empt the world? Then they seemed to be together too?
              1. 0
                14 September 2013 16: 29
                Quote: Kars
                why did they lose the Russo-Japanese? Or will I premiere the world?


                neither in the RPN nor in the 1MB, no one was going to destroy the losers at the root, unlike the Second World War.
                hence the difference in reaction to the invasion, and accordingly the result.
                1. +1
                  14 September 2013 16: 33
                  Quote: Rider
                  nobody was going to destroy the losers at the root,

                  This is an elementary excuse. And the facts are a cruel thing. I can still remember the Crimean War.
                  1. +3
                    14 September 2013 17: 18
                    Quote: Kars
                    This is an elementary excuse


                    I don’t understand what do you think is an excuse?
                    probably plan Ost.
                    or are you unfamiliar with such a term as "untermensch"?

                    do you even know why Hitler refused your Bandera right to create the state of Ukraine?
                    yes, simply because the MAJOR flow of immigrants from Germany was planned for the Ukrainian lands.
                    and the Fuhrer preferred to deal with a controlled protectorate than with the (albeit puppet) "government"
                    or do you think that the fate of Ukrainians under the Germans would be better than Russian?
                    Quote: Kars
                    I can still remember the Crimean War.

                    and I can remember the Patriotic War 1812g and what?
                    a request not to confuse the wars waged by the state, and which were PEOPLE.
                    1. +3
                      14 September 2013 17: 55
                      Quote: Rider
                      I don’t understand what do you think is an excuse?

                      Quote: Rider
                      losers at the root, in contrast to the Second World War.
                      hence the difference in reaction to the invasion, and accordingly the result.

                      this is an elementary excuse.
                      Quote: Rider
                      do you even know why Hitler refused your Bandera right to create the state of Ukraine?

                      if it honestly doesn’t matter to me, you can recall the Lokot Republic.
                      Quote: Rider
                      or do you think that the fate of Ukrainians under the Germans would be better than Russian?

                      I gave some reason to discuss this topic?

                      Quote: Rider
                      and I can remember the Patriotic War 1812g and what?

                      Napoleon was going to cut everyone in the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia?
                      Quote: Rider
                      a request not to confuse the wars waged by the state, and which were PEOPLE.

                      don't get it here.
                      1. +1
                        14 September 2013 18: 20
                        Quote: Kars
                        this is an elementary excuse.

                        I understand that you consider this excuse
                        http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/822/yfcy818.jpg
                        Quote: Kars
                        if it honestly doesn’t matter to me, you can recall the Lokot Republic.

                        this "education" has been discussed on the site more than once, and every sane person can see perfectly well the organization of German henchmen (like the UPA) using this example
                        Quote: Kars
                        I gave some reason to discuss this topic?

                        and who called the Second World War - an excuse?
                        Push ... uh Shevchenko?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Napoleon was going to cut everyone in the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia?


                        Napoleon decided to change the domestic power, to a foreign power.
                        if it makes no difference to you, then this is your problem.
                        Quote: Kars
                        don't get it here.

                        so do not get into your fabrications all kinds of wars lost by Russia.
                        because this is not even a glimpse of logic.
                      2. +4
                        14 September 2013 18: 28
                        Quote: Rider
                        http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/822/yfcy818.jpg

                        And what? Start talking about the triple courts? And the Cheka? Next, what?
                        Quote: Rider
                        this "education" has been discussed on the site more than once, and every sane person can see perfectly well the organization of German henchmen (like the UPA) using this example

                        What is it for?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and who called the Second World War - an excuse?
                        Push ... uh Shevchenko?


                        Quote: Rider
                        neither in the RPN nor in the 1MB, no one was going to destroy the losers at the root, unlike the Second World War.
                        hence the difference in reaction to the invasion, and accordingly the result.
                        this is an elementary excuse, the Great Patriotic War won, the rest lost. In this case, even the social system is different, communism and the monarchy. So sorry, but you are in flight, think of something else.

                        Quote: Rider
                        Napoleon decided to change the domestic power, to a foreign power.
                        if it makes no difference to you, then this is your problem.

                        So did he want to cut everyone out or not?
                        Quote: Rider
                        so do not get into your fabrications all kinds of wars lost by Russia.
                        because this is not even a glimpse of logic.
                        Well, if it bothers you so much, you can do as you usually do - take a look, maybe less shame on your ..logic .. you will.
                      3. +2
                        14 September 2013 18: 42
                        Quote: Kars
                        And what? Start talking about the triple courts? And the Cheka? Next, what?

                        Well, if you agree to be non-commissioned, to send your children to slaves and the land to someone else's uncle, then yes, for you there is no difference.
                        Quote: Kars

                        What is it for? this is an elementary excuse, WWII won, the rest lost.

                        what excuses?
                        Do you consider the GREATEST VICTORY IN HISTORY - Excuse ?!
                        and Krymsk - proof 7
                        is everything okay with your head?
                        you remind me of some commentators from Azerbaijan who famously declared ALL Russian / Turkish wars LOST by Russia.
                        so it was you who were in the "flight", and new "arguments" should be brought to you.
                        Quote: Kars
                        So did he want to cut everyone out or not?

                        so did he want to change power or not?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, if it bothers you so much, you can do as you usually do - take a look, maybe less shame on your ..logic .. you will.

                        so can you begin to answer ARGUMENTED, and not verbiage?
                      4. +1
                        14 September 2013 18: 49
                        Quote: Rider

                        Well, if you agree to be non-commissioned, to send your children to slaves and the land to someone else's uncle, then yes, for you there is no difference.

                        Strange, but someone else’s uncle for me and VV Putin with his oligarchs.

                        Quote: Rider
                        what excuses?
                        Do you consider the GREATEST VICTORY IN HISTORY - WITHOUT ?!

                        In your case, YES.
                        Quote: Rider
                        is everything okay with your head?

                        Well, compared to you, everything is just fine.
                        Quote: Rider
                        so that you were in the "flight", and new "arguments" to give you

                        Well, be courageous and admit your next defeat. Although you can try to prove that Medveputy / Putin Medvedydy try to build communism)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        so did he want to change power or not?
                        then say there was no threat of cutting? how so)))

                        Quote: Rider
                        so can you begin to answer ARGUMENTED, and not verbiage?

                        Why are you blaming me for your sins? Verbiage is your hobby. For now, I’m writing all arguments with facts.
                      5. +1
                        14 September 2013 19: 06
                        Quote: Kars
                        Strange, but someone else’s uncle for me and VV Putin with his oligarchs.


                        brilliantly!
                        GDP wants to destroy the Ukrainians as a people.
                        this is an example of logic.
                        Quote: Kars
                        In your case, YES.

                        Well, in your case, the example of the RYA and the Crimean, and even from the category - nothing.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, be courageous and admit your next defeat.

                        you beg me not to kick you in your absurdities?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, compared to you, everything is just fine.

                        I’ll honestly say how many your posts have not been read - I didn’t notice.
                        but happy for you.
                        Quote: Kars
                        then say there was no threat of cutting? how so)))

                        but does foreign control bring benefits to the people?
                        in other matters, in your case, probably so, it is not in vain that Ukraine is in a hurry to delegate its EU rights, including on the primacy of European laws over intra-Ukrainian ones.
                        I congratulate you, soon you will ask this question to your "rulers"

                        and by the way, did I even say a word about medveputov?
                        you kind of decided to argue ARGUMENTALLY, it's time to start.
                        Quote: Kars
                        REV, PMV, Crimean lost, despite the fact that they were .. together.

                        and even more were won.
                        probably you have not heard about the Balkan wars, both Turkish and Caucasian.

                        Do you consider the RIAV and Crimea - an ARGUMENT?
                        so why don't you consider other wars an argument?

                        INITIALLY, the point of the argument was that the PEOPLE'S WARs where our peoples were together, we were associated with success.
                        you cited as an "argument" the wars that the STATE waged, and that did not become PEOPLE.

                        this actually caused my counter-post.
                      6. +1
                        14 September 2013 20: 57
                        Quote: Rider
                        brilliantly!
                        GDP wants to destroy the Ukrainians as a people.

                        And who wants according to yours? And who knows his Putin what he wants. And the logic excuse me iron.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, in your case, the example of the RYA and the Crimean, and even from the category - nothing.

                        An example of the loss of the Russian Empire by the prison of peoples under the fifth of the Romanov Germans.

                        Quote: Rider
                        you beg me not to kick you in your absurdities?
                        No, it’s just not a disgrace.

                        Quote: Rider
                        I’ll honestly say how many your posts have not been read - I didn’t notice.

                        Well, maybe get smarter, re-read later - and it will reach you.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but does foreign control bring benefits to the people?
                        Well, the autocracy is also not a pound of raisins, by the way, the serfdom right to vet has not yet been canceled? Then?

                        Quote: Rider
                        in other matters, in your case, probably so, it is not in vain that Ukraine is in a hurry to delegate its EU rights

                        By the way, what rights does Ukraine delegate by association?

                        Quote: Rider
                        I congratulate you, soon you will ask this question to your "rulers"
                        Do you think European laws are worse than Ukrainian?

                        Quote: Rider
                        and by the way, did I even say a word about medveputov?

                        And what is Russia someone else steers? Maybe still tell the Slovens))))
                        Quote: Rider
                        and more were won

                        What are these from the 1850 year then?
                        Quote: Rider
                        probably you have not heard about the Balkan wars, both Turkish and Caucasian.

                        Well, as there wasn’t any strait, but in the Caucasus the war is still going on, they pay tribute to Kadyrov.))
                        Quote: Rider
                        Do you consider the RIAV and Crimea - an ARGUMENT?
                        so why don't you consider other wars an argument?

                        which for example?

                        Quote: Rider
                        INITIALLY, the point of the argument was that the PEOPLE'S WARs where our peoples were together, we were associated with success.
                        Well, there weren’t any such ones. Even the Patriotic 1812 of the year does not fit this parameter - it’s only part of the Napoleonic Wars where the Republic of Ingushetia suffered not frail defeats, with heavy losses. .

                        Quote: Rider
                        this actually caused my counter-post.

                        what to say in vain you climbed it in vain
                      7. 0
                        14 September 2013 21: 46
                        Quote: Kars
                        And who wants your way? And

                        yes there was such a character - aloizych was called, but after all for you these are just "excuses"
                        Quote: Kars

                        An example of the loss of the Russian Empire by the prison of peoples under the fifth of the Romanov Germans.

                        But what about the victories in the Northern War? in turkish and balkan wars
                        WHO THEN LEADED THE COUNTRY?
                        RURIKOVICHI 7

                        and you still say something about logic?
                        Quote: Kars
                        No, it’s just not a disgrace.
                        to anyone who read your previous paragraph (about the heel of the Romanov Germans) it is clear which of us is dishonored
                        Quote: Kars
                        What are these from the 1850 year then?


                        both on !
                        and what before this period of war are not considered?
                        like they were making fun
                        WHO WILL BE DISAPPOINTED ?!
                        WHO SPEAKS ABOUT LOGIC ?!
                        Well, yes, but I thought you were smarter.
                        wrong.
                        Quote: Kars

                        Well, as there wasn’t any strait, but in the Caucasus the war is still going on, they pay tribute to Kadyrov.))

                        and what?
                        why is the Balkan war considered lost?
                        Well, in the Caucasus and tribute.
                        Imagine Russia not only pays tribute to the Caucasus, but also to the Tuva Komi and other federal subjects.
                        Recently, subsidies have been provided.
                        but I didn’t know that Moscow lost the war to Vladivostok.

                        however, speaking "Caucasian wars" I meant Russian / Turkish and Russian / Iranian wars for the Caucasus.
                        but you probably don’t know about them, and you think that everything came down to Chechnya.
                        Quote: Kars
                        which for example?

                        You are probably blind. I have mentioned the Russian / Turkish and other wars so many times.
                        but you see only read about those where Russia lost.
                        where (albeit not logic) but at least observation?
                        however, who am I asking.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, such, in principle, was not

                        Well, for sure - it wasn’t, you just asked for it under the wing of the Russian Tsar.
                        apparently you liked that you were traded Krymchaks, and considered the Poles for cattle.
                        you had to immediately join France or immediately to America, ahh yeah, it didn’t exist then.
                        Well, they would have suffered nothing for a couple of centuries, whether the trouble is great.

                        WOULD THESE WARS WERE NOT PEOPLE SO WIT?
                        and WWII was not there either.
                        Quote: Kars
                        what to say in vain you climbed it in vain

                        but now everyone can be convinced of the GREATNESS of your "logic"
                        you do not get lost

                        I am always at your service.
                      8. +3
                        14 September 2013 22: 08
                        Quote: Rider
                        yes there was such a character - alozych called

                        But when was it? Not talking about the fact that he had already died))))) are you scaring the dead?
                        Quote: Rider
                        But what about the victories in the Northern War? in turkish and balkan wars

                        Asked you from 1850 year.

                        Quote: Rider
                        and you still say something about logic?

                        You learn to read, and then talk about logic)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, yes, but I thought you were smarter.
                        wrong.

                        this is your second time writing))) it’s hard for you to be hard-to-reach)) and the mistake is your second I.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and what?
                        why is the Balkan war considered lost?
                        Naturally, they just poured over the soldiers' blood cap, but they did not achieve their goals, even though they made a face mine.

                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, in the Caucasus and tribute.
                        Imagine Russia not only pays tribute to the Caucasus, but also to the Tuva Komi and other federal subjects.
                        Recently, subsidies have been provided.
                        but I didn’t know that Moscow lost the war to Vladivostok
                        About tribute to Chechnya, of course, it’s hard for you to urge, still keep watching Kadyrov who killed the Russians)))

                        Quote: Rider
                        You are probably blind. I have mentioned the Russian / Turkish and other wars so many times.

                        Don't you see just being overtaking)) since 1850 year you were asked))
                        Quote: Rider
                        WHO WILL BE DISAPPOINTED ?!
                        WHO SPEAKS ABOUT LOGIC ?!
                        are you disgraced, and is caps a hysteria?


                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, for sure - it wasn’t, you just asked for it under the wing of the Russian Tsar

                        then there was a popular war?))) well
                        Quote: Rider
                        apparently you liked that you were traded Krymchaks, and considered the Poles for cattle.

                        then Muscovites, serfdom, and the dispersal of the Zaporizhzhya Sich did it.

                        Quote: Rider
                        WOULD THESE WARS WERE NOT PEOPLE SO WIT?

                        Which ones? And can the Ukrainians struggle with the Poles. Tatars. Muscovites and the war was non-native. But where did the Moscow tsars? For them it was a war for influence and territory.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but now everyone can be convinced of the GREATNESS of your "logic"
                        let them be convinced, but you have a good shame. You have mixed so many different snowstorms.

                        Quote: Rider
                        I am always at your service.

                        laughter prolongs life.
                      9. 0
                        14 September 2013 22: 28
                        Quote: Kars
                        Yes, when was it?

                        well yes, it doesn’t count
                        your selective memory.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Asked you from 1850 year.

                        and before that there were showdowns in the children's sandbox?
                        and someone else is talking about logic ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        are you disgraced, and is caps a hysteria?

                        this is an attempt to find logic in your fabrications, but apparently in vain.
                        Quote: Kars
                        then Muscovites, serfdom, and the dispersal of the Zaporizhzhya Sich did it.

                        Yes Yes
                        and mass executions, and sale in markets, and raids from which depopulated entire regions
                        and all this BLOODY MSCALS.
                        so I didn’t understand, but why did they ask for it?
                        it turns out this way - how bad it is - "save brothers"
                        and how unnecessary became - "went to the occupiers."
                        now I seem to begin to understand Ukrainian "logic"
                        Quote: Kars
                        let them be convinced

                        so I say, let them know an example of independent thinking
                        Quote: Kars
                        laughter prolongs life

                        reading your verses is not hard to believe
                      10. +2
                        14 September 2013 22: 41
                        Quote: Rider
                        well yes, it doesn’t count
                        your selective memory.
                        Are you really so strange? We are talking in principle about the future, and not about the past.
                        Quote: Rider
                        GDP wants to destroy the Ukrainians as a people.

                        Quote: Kars
                        And who wants according to yours? And who knows his Putin what he wants. And the logic excuse me iron

                        Do you understand what is written here? Want.a not HotL)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        and before that there were showdowns in the children's sandbox?
                        and someone else is talking about logic ...

                        I gave you a simple time frame, which is not so far historically, and more or less modern. The industrial revolution has already begun, and so on.
                        Quote: Rider
                        this is an attempt to find logic in your fabrications, but apparently in vain.

                        No, it’s a hysteria when you cannot show the logic in your words, and get out as you can, without answering questions, jumping over with that.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes Yes
                        and mass executions, and sale in markets, and raids from which depopulated entire regions
                        and all this BLOODY MSCALS.

                        Well, you don’t have to exaggerate, although you can’t put yourself out any more stupidly, but they waged war with the Crimean Khanate, they also beat them. At that time they were like that. Not for nothing.
                        Quote: Rider
                        it turns out this way - how bad it is - "save brothers"

                        Well, this, in principle, was not, you are exaggerating again.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and how unnecessary became - "went to the occupiers."

                        Well, you deceived, and did not comply with the terms of the Pereyaslovskaya parliament, still say that serfdom was not entered on the Ukrainian territory, no liberties were abolished - but I didn’t understand this topic much, you want to read something.
                        Quote: Rider
                        so I say, let them know an example of independent thinking

                        so I don’t mind, let them look at you, I just can’t take your remarks as thinking, here is another sectrack from yours, so it was ombaked so that it thinks that the Republic of Ingushetia won the war in Krymskub, your type))
                        Quote: Rider
                        reading your verses is not hard to believe
                        You found rhymes in me)))
                      11. 0
                        14 September 2013 23: 04
                        Quote: Kars
                        We are talking in principle about the future, and not about the past.

                        well, precisely selective logic, which contradicts logic, then discard
                        it was originally about the People’s War, in which our peoples fought side by side.
                        but it’s too difficult for you to see.
                        therefore, you distance yourself from this.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Do you understand what is written here? Want.a not HotL)))


                        does it change anything ?
                        along the way you compared the "Wishlist" GDP and aloizycha, do you think they are identical?
                        wonderful thoughts are independent.
                        Quote: Kars
                        I gave you a simple time frame

                        BEYOND this framework of history does not exist?
                        again you adjust the answer to the conditions of the problem, then I see, then I don’t see?
                        defeat in the Crimean war - I see, I do not notice the victory of 1812 point-blank.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well do not exaggerate

                        Indeed, why exaggerate you just need to state the fact that the Ukrainians rushed from the Krymchaks to the Poles, from those and those regularly raking.
                        as a result, we chose Moscow.
                        Quote: Kars
                        but I especially did not understand this topic, if you want to read something.

                        so you read, and find out that the laws in force throughout the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia have spread on the lands of Ukraine.
                        Quote: Kars
                        so I do not mind, let them look

                        I don't mind either
                        Well, according to the Kr war, and how much land Russia lost while fighting ALONE against the FOUR powers.
                        at the same time repelling the attack on Solovki in Kranstadt and Kamchatka?
                        and all political dividends, RI later returned thanks to the efforts of Chancellor Gorchakov ABSOLUTELY PEACE WAY.

                        you would have such "losses"
                        Quote: Kars
                        You found rhymes in me)))

                        God be with them, with rhymes
                        I did not find your LOGIC.
                        you accept one and deny the other.
                        just like in the movie: I remember here, I won’t get it.
                      12. +2
                        14 September 2013 23: 16
                        Quote: Rider
                        well, it’s like selective logic,

                        You’re not exactly strange))) I gave specific quotes, and all your nonsense where you already confused anything)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        does it change anything ?
                        along the way you compared the "Wishlist" GDP and aloizycha, do you think they are identical?

                        )))))) Well, not a strange type)))))
                        Quote: Rider
                        well, if you agree to be untermanent, to send your children to slaves and land to someone else’s uncle,

                        Quote: Kars
                        Strange, but someone else’s uncle for me and VV Putin with his oligarchs.
                        )))) you would stop drinking there)) but you don’t remember what you raved about.

                        Quote: Rider
                        BEYOND this framework of history does not exist?

                        Do you want to dig a king of peas)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        defeat in the Crimean war - I see, I do not notice the victory of 1812 point-blank.

                        Well, there was a technological breakthrough, it wasn’t so convenient to bombard each other with the appearance of rifled weapons. And I already wrote about the 1812 war

                        Quote: Kars
                        It happened. Even the Patriotic 1812 of the year does not fit this parameter - it is only part of the Napoleonic Wars where the Republic of Ingushetia suffered not frail defeats, with heavy losses. And you should not invent something from the presence of ..partisan .. movement.


                        Quote: Rider
                        the fact that Ukrainians rushed from the Krymchaks to the Poles, from those and those regularly raking.
                        as a result, we chose Moscow.
                        threw themselves. Well, the choice was not very rich to regret.
                      13. 0
                        14 September 2013 23: 35
                        Quote: Kars
                        You're not exactly weird)

                        and it says a person who does not care what will happen to his country?
                        which Wishlist Pu is worse than the protectorate of Ukraine.
                        which of us is strange?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Do you want to dig a king of peas)))


                        Well, why to a pea, enough to the Russian / Turkish troops 1877-78gg
                        as a result, Turkey lost Bulgaria to Serbia.
                        and Russia overcame part of the Black Sea coast of the Caucasus.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Quote: Kars
                        even the Patriotic War of 1812 does not fit this parameter - this is only part of the Napoleonic Wars where the Republic of Ingushetia suffered not frail defeats, with heavy losses. And to start inventing something ...


                        here is how?
                        is it now so in Ukraine history is taught?
                        turns out to be RI in LOSING France.
                        you have not only logic, but also an alternative story.
                        Quote: Kars
                        threw themselves. Well, the choice was not very rich to regret

                        so metal, would wait a couple of centuries, and join directly to the citadel of democracy.

                        the truth by that time and the people you might not have left, but such are the excesses of independence (from the brain)
                      14. +2
                        14 September 2013 23: 49
                        Quote: Rider
                        who doesn’t care what will happen to his country?

                        Where did I write this? Will you be able to make a quote? Or have you wandered at all?
                        Quote: Rider
                        which Wishlist Pu is worse than the protectorate of Ukraine.

                        Whose protectorate? Who is going to protect us ..?
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, why to a pea, enough to the Russian / Turkish troops 1877-78gg
                        as a result, Turkey lost Bulgaria to Serbia.
                        and Russia overcame part of the Black Sea coast of the Caucasus.
                        Well, a great victory)) over Turkey itself)) there was probably a popular war? And the British got Cyprus)) without losing a single person.

                        Quote: Rider
                        here is how?
                        is it now so in Ukraine history is taught?

                        I don’t know, if you are interested, find a textbook.
                        Quote: Rider
                        turns out to be RI in LOSING France.
                        you have not only logic, but also an alternative story.

                        And now ... logical .. give a quote where I wrote that RI lost to France or are you poorly reading? And not about the lost battles involving RI troops? Maybe RI also fought with Napoleonic France individually?
                        Quote: Rider
                        so metal, would wait a couple of centuries, and join directly to the citadel of democracy.

                        It's not meant to be.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but these are excesses of independence (from the brain)

                        Are you from personal experience?
                      15. 0
                        14 September 2013 23: 55
                        I propose starting a new discussion thread below.
                        it is inconvenient to answer in a narrow-kart version.
                      16. +1
                        14 September 2013 23: 16
                        Quote: Rider
                        so you read, and find out that the laws in force throughout the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia have spread on the lands of Ukraine.

                        fact that cheated.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, according to the Kr war, and how much land Russia lost while fighting ALONE against the FOUR powers.

                        So did you win?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and all political dividends, RI later returned thanks to the efforts of Chancellor Gorchakov ABSOLUTELY PEACE WAY.

                        Didn’t you lose?
                        Quote: Rider
                        you would have such "losses"
                        no thanks

                        Quote: Rider
                        God be with them, with rhymes
                        I did not find your LOGIC.
                        Well this is not surprising. And you find the logic)) this is not even funny.

                        Quote: Rider
                        you accept one and deny the other.
                        just like in the movie: I remember here, I won’t get it.

                        Well, for example? I remember very well that I set the time frame, but you started to dodge like a frying pan.
                      17. 0
                        14 September 2013 23: 51
                        Quote: Kars

                        fact that cheated.


                        the fact that under the wing came round.
                        Quote: Kars
                        So did you win?

                        Didn’t you lose?

                        no thanks

                        the fact is that she lost so much that she did not lose a meter of her land.
                        and returned political influence with interest.
                        and certainly YOU only dream about such defeats
                        What should be the historiography of the Square?
                        victory at Konotop?
                        just shine.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well this is not surprising. And you find the logic)) this is not even funny.

                        Well, why, I am very pleased to dunk you in your ignorance.
                        and as for logic - you are right, you do not observe it.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Kars (3) UA Today, 18: 28 ↑

                        this is an elementary excuse, WWII won, the rest lost.

                        please indicate BEFORE the time frame

                        and about the "victory after 1850"
                        Russian Turkish 1877-78gg will do.
                        or it does not pass in the textbooks of Ukraine?

                        I see that the snake in the pan was pressed to the nail.
                        start dodging.
                      18. +2
                        15 September 2013 00: 00
                        Quote: Rider
                        the fact that under the wing came round.

                        Well, they believed the promises, and, unfortunately, they didn’t receive war at once with everyone.
                        Quote: Rider
                        the fact is that she lost so much that she did not lose a meter of her land.

                        Really?
                        Russia returned the southern part of Bessarabia, lost after the Crimean War, and annexed the Kars region, populated by Armenians and Georgians.
                        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D1%82%D1%83%D

                        1%80%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0_(1877%E2%80%94

                        1878)#.D0.9E.D0.B1.D1.89.D0.B0.D1.8F_.D1.81.D0.B8.D1.82.D1.83.D0.B0.D1.86.D0.B8.

                        D1.8F_.D0.B8_.D0.BF.D0.BB.D0.B0.D0.BD.D1.8B_.D1.81.D1.82.D0.BE.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.BD


                        Quote: Rider
                        and certainly YOU only dream about such defeats

                        In principle, to dream of any defeats is the lot of losers like you. Who already lost the Crimean War for quite a while)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        I mean proud historiography
                        I am personally proud that we gained independence bloodlessly, and there were no civil wars in our territory.

                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, why, I am very pleased to dunk you in your ignorance.

                        Dur - eny riches with a thought)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        and about the "victory after 1850"
                        Russian Turkish 1877-78gg will do.
                        no, in principle, it won’t work - it’s weak for such a huge Russian empire, if they would take Istanbul, another thing, the straits there.

                        Quote: Rider
                        I see that the snake in the pan was pressed to the nail.
                        start dodging.

                        you buy glasses there, well, or wipe the monitor from saliva, otherwise you can hardly see it.
                      19. 0
                        15 September 2013 00: 41
                        The answer is below.
                      20. +2
                        14 September 2013 23: 18
                        And yes, purely out of black envy))))))
                      21. 0
                        14 September 2013 23: 26
                        Quote: Kars
                        And yes, purely out of black envy))))))

                        Are we all swearing? And in Russia there is also gas - then what will envy become "blue"? )))))
                      22. +1
                        14 September 2013 23: 31
                        Quote: svp67
                        And in Russia there is also gas - then what will envy become "blue"? )))))

                        Generally colorless.
                      23. 0
                        14 September 2013 23: 33
                        Quote: Kars
                        Generally colorless.
                        Already smiled ...
                      24. +1
                        14 September 2013 23: 51
                        Quote: svp67
                        Already smiled ...

                        I’m trying. I don’t really understand the engines of tanks. GTD, Diesel, here comes the know-it-alls and guardians of Ukraine to drive.
                      25. 0
                        14 September 2013 23: 54
                        Quote: Kars
                        comes here
                        I see ... "indulge in buns ..." Well, God help me. By the way, have you seen the Chinese model T64B? I am in "shock", and only one question - why?
                      26. +2
                        15 September 2013 10: 19
                        Quote: svp67
                        By the way, have you seen the Chinese model T64B? I am in "shock", and only one question - why?

                        Why is 500 hryvnia worth? Or what?
                        I personally am going to take as I complete the T-62 Syrian.

                        I had BV Skifovsky, I gave it to his children for destruction.
                      27. +1
                        16 September 2013 09: 49
                        Why it is expensive, after personal communication I understand, I WHY they and not Russia or Ukraine ...
                      28. +2
                        16 September 2013 10: 09
                        Quote: svp67
                        I WHY they and not Russia or Ukraine ...

                        Why aren’t they ours? I don’t even know - especially after the release of the T-90A from the mengue, and its comparison with the Star.
                  2. 0
                    14 September 2013 20: 43
                    Quote: Kars
                    I can still remember the Crimean War.

                    Well, the Crimean one was definitely not lost, read out the list of losses as a result of the "lost" war!
                    1. +1
                      14 September 2013 22: 09
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Well, they definitely did not lose the Crimean one, read out the list of losses as a result of the "lost" war

                      Well, they just decided not to keep the navy in the Black Sea from winning, and all that.
              2. Radoslav
                0
                14 September 2013 17: 49
                The Russian Army did not lose the First World War, again read the story, General Brusilov in 1916 defeated the Austro-Hungarian and German troops and the Austro-Hungarian empire was on the verge of surrender. and you know who the Jewish Bolsheviks helped them, and the venality of the Jewish Russian Duma,
                1. +1
                  14 September 2013 17: 58
                  Quote: Radoslav
                  The Russian Army did not lose the First World War, again read the story,

                  Really? Took Berlin and Vienna? Participated in the Treaty of Versailles as a victorious country?
                  Quote: Radoslav
                  and you know who the Jewish Bolsheviks helped them, and the venality of the Jewish Russian Duma,

                  Of course, even the Euro-Bolsheviks organized a shell hunger, and of course the defeat of 1914, and of course it was they who generally dragged RI into this not very necessary war.
                  1. 0
                    14 September 2013 20: 47
                    Quote: Kars
                    Really? Took Berlin and Vienna?

                    Did the Germans and Austrians take Moscow? Yes you are raving.
            2. +4
              14 September 2013 16: 59
              Quote: Radoslav
              then we were together therefore and won.

              The true truth! Only now there should be a war INFORMATION !!!! PROMOTIONAL !!!! And then it will reach people. Well, if the inhabitants of Ukraine (we won’t wait from the government) will turn to Russia with a request to protect them from the Americans and Europe - then on tanks. BEFORE you have to be smarter! And more skillful!
              1. Radoslav
                +1
                14 September 2013 18: 08
                not b
                Quote: Radoslav
                The Russian Army did not lose the First World War, again read the story, General Brusilov in 1916 defeated the Austro-Hungarian and German troops and the Austro-Hungarian empire was on the verge of surrender. and you know who the Jewish Bolsheviks helped them, and the venality of the Jewish Russian Duma,
                1. +1
                  14 September 2013 18: 13
                  Quote: Radoslav
                  not b

                  not g?
                  Quote: Kars
                  Really? Took Berlin and Vienna? Participated in the Treaty of Versailles as a victorious country?

                  Quote: Kars
                  Of course, even the Euro-Bolsheviks organized a shell hunger, and of course the defeat of 1914, and of course it was they who generally dragged RI into this not very necessary war.
      2. +11
        14 September 2013 14: 25
        Quote: Kars
        Quote: Radoslav
        It is necessary to introduce Russian troops into Southeastern Ukraine, before it is too late, the population of these regions support
        I personally promise support, I won’t show much. That I haven’t heard from any citizens of neighboring and not so countries about the desire to send troops to Ukraine, except for .. brothers .. from the Russian Federation)))


        My dear Kars and Cristall! My dear Ukrainian brothers and sisters!

        No need to react so nervously to the performances of the hamsters-provocateurs.
        Each of us who comes here to the forum, on both sides of the border, and not only that, perfectly understands that our opinion can make little difference. Everything is being decided today in Kiev, Moscow and Brussels.
        Many of us have family ties both in Ukraine and in Russia.
        And God forbid that everything would be decided to mutual agreement and pleasure.
        Good luck!
        hi
        1. +2
          14 September 2013 15: 23
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Everything is being decided today in Kiev, Moscow and Brussels.


          I'm sorry that I fit into your (no doubt) noble speech.
          but DECISE today in Moscow and Brussels.
          and in Kiev they just figure out (out of selfish motives) who they will join.

          once again I apologize for having messed up the light impulse of the soul

          hi
          1. +5
            14 September 2013 20: 31
            Quote: Rider
            I'm sorry that I fit into your (no doubt) noble speech.


            Having our own opinion, as well as expressing it, is perhaps the only thing we can do here without problems.
            I don’t like much in Kars’s statements (and not only him), but I don’t see any sense in conducting verbal battles.

            Back in the early 90s I didn't like that we were "divided", divided, separated ...
            Every time we go to my mother-in-law to Ukraine, I want to spit that due to the ambitions of the three eccentrics to the letter M, I have to work to satisfy the needs of officials on both sides where there was none at all.
            hi
        2. Radoslav
          +2
          14 September 2013 15: 26
          But understand the Slavic brothers from Little Russia, we will not live together Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, they will crush us one by one, and we will not be like nations, do you really not want to see reality. Or, indeed, Judeo-Jews are on the site, and the descendants of the unfinished Bendera, though I don’t want to believe it
          1. +5
            14 September 2013 15: 38
            Quote: Radoslav
            Yes, understand the brothers Slavs from Little Russia,


            take it easy uv ivan.
            I am impressed by your point of view, but events are unfolding in such a way that only after sipping on the nostrils of the "free choice" Ukrainians and / or young people will begin to understand where the "elites" have pulled them
            and if it is taken for granted that in the next 5 years it will become very hot on the ball, then it can come to the Polish-Romanian occupation.
            that's when the "independent ukrainets" will scratch the pumpkin and begin to distinguish friend from enemy.
            remember how Ukraine’s annexation to Russia went on, it’s so gorgeous and will be the second time.

            alas.

            and you want to start with the Russian invasion.

            everything has its time.
            1. xan
              +2
              15 September 2013 01: 10
              Quote: Rider
              and you want to start with the Russian invasion.

              everything has its time.

              agree
              this is not our method
              rip the ripened fruit
      3. +1
        14 September 2013 15: 17
        Do not pay attention, there are enough goblins everywhere. Come visit, I will take fishing in the mountains. Holidays are better than in Switzerland
      4. +2
        14 September 2013 20: 42
        Quote: Kars
        I personally promise support, I won’t show much. That I haven’t heard from any citizens of neighboring and not so countries about the desire to send troops to Ukraine, except for .. brothers .. from the Russian Federation)))

        Romania, Germany, Poland, enough for a start?
        1. +4
          15 September 2013 10: 17
          Quote: Setrac
          Romania, Germany, Poland, enough for a start?

          When is Germany. Poland and Romania proposed to send troops to the territory of the independent state of Ukraine?
    4. +1
      14 September 2013 20: 42
      Support will be no worse than in Poland in 1920 or in Finland in 1939. Not much will seem.
      1. xan
        +2
        15 September 2013 01: 14
        Quote: artem772
        Support will be no worse than in Poland in 1920 or in Finland in 1939. Not much will seem.

        So what, did it help Poland or Finland?
        And secondly, we don’t need all of Ukraine, we need Russian lands with Russian people, you’re invaders there
  15. +10
    14 September 2013 10: 21
    Guys, we are the ONE people. All runs that separate us are created consciously. Do not be fooled by this.
    1. +7
      14 September 2013 11: 14
      I confirm - we are a single Russian people. And Ukraine was created as a project for the collapse of Russia.
  16. vladsolo56
    +10
    14 September 2013 10: 24
    What can I say about Ukraine, when in Russia everything is going to knock out the concept of Russian from the minds of people, to etch out all the principles and features that determined the Russian person. Here is a lot of writing and talking about the revival of the Russians, but let's define what it means to be Russian? what to strive for, with whom to take an example especially young. There is nothing, everyone has been erased, deleted, now it’s only fashionable to shout that one should be Russian, and which one? almost nobody knows this.
  17. +4
    14 September 2013 10: 34
    In my mind there are no divisions, we are all Russian. I think the less we will procrastinate different names, the better it will be for all of us. Given the situation in which, unfortunately, we live in different states, we can use the concepts of Western Russians, southern Russians and Eastern Russians. For the territory: Western, Southern and Eastern Russia.
    1. +4
      14 September 2013 11: 15
      Quote: krpmlws
      I think the less we loot various names, the better it will be for all of us.

      in western Ukraine they don’t think so. And in the West in general, too. This is an information war.
  18. +4
    14 September 2013 10: 38
    The article voiced only the topic of the German footprint in the separation of Ukrainians from Russians. And the biggest contribution to this matter was made by the Soviet government, under the leadership of Lazar Moiseevich Kaganovich, who led this process, being the first secretary of the CPSU (b) of Ukraine.
    1. +4
      14 September 2013 11: 15
      more Poles and Austrians.
      1. not good
        +1
        14 September 2013 12: 22
        And the territory arrived thanks to the unforgettable maize-Nikita Sergeevich.
  19. +3
    14 September 2013 10: 49
    Yes, there is no need for any Russian troops in Ukraine, on the contrary, let them do what they want, but without discounts for gas and according to strict rules at customs, with the unconditional protection of the economic interests of the Customs Union - if Ukraine is "with a mustache", then the relationship between Ukraine and Russia should be the same as those of Russia and the EU. The only question is how long the Ukrainian industry will last with a sharp restriction of sales markets in the CU countries. And then the Ukrainians themselves will figure out with whom they feel good, and with whom they are not on the way. All the same rhetorical option - it doesn’t come through our heads, it will go through another place, to which a wonderful adventure will be found in the form of an FTA with the EU, especially since the EU immediately, "on the shore", said that EU membership does not shine for Ukraine by definition.
    1. dredging
      +4
      14 September 2013 11: 40
      They still can’t figure it out among themselves. They are divided among themselves again according to the territorial basis. Zapadentsi and left-bank. And all because they gave a finger to bite, and grabbed their hand to their elbows. I want to say. Now they hate themselves.
    2. So_o_tozh
      +1
      15 September 2013 01: 40
      She would have been better off at her own discount ... Don’t you just think: Ukraine receives gas at 440 dollars. + 100dol. type a discount for rent Black Sea Fleet = 550 dollars. Moreover, buying gas more than anyone else in Europe ... HERMANIA receives gas at 350 dollars, but you plowed on daragy scattered.
      1. vladsolo56
        0
        15 September 2013 04: 59
        well, if Ukraine hadn’t torn money for rent in Sevastopol, by the way a truly Russian city from the very beginning. even if she didn’t pay so much for gas, if she hadn’t helped the Georgians kill Russian peacekeepers and pilots, then everything could have been different. And so it turns out, I'll substitute a leg for you, and you give me fat for free.
  20. +6
    14 September 2013 10: 53
    Quote: Orik
    Guys, we are the ONE people. All runs that separate us are created consciously. Do not be fooled by this.

    You're right !!! Someday Ukraine will understand that it is necessary to look for friends not in the West, but in Russia, and then our countries will again become united and invincible, to evil enemies!
  21. +3
    14 September 2013 10: 54
    You can write about the intrigues of yesterday for a long time, but when the Muller-Miller begins to shut off gas to Ukraine or Belarus, it is impossible to understand. After all, 3 brotherly nations are so fortified with family ties that it is difficult to find families who have no relatives in Ukraine and Belarus.
    And when these "antics of the Muellers" occur, we perceive them with the same hatred.
    Brothers Slavs do not forget their roots.
    1. +10
      14 September 2013 11: 18
      Quote: Forest
      After all, 3 fraternal peoples

      I’m not brothers, but one people - Russian, inhabitants of great Russia.
      1. +9
        14 September 2013 11: 24
        Quote: Dimka off
        I’m not brothers, but one people - Russian, inhabitants of great Russia.

        That's right!
        And what to expect from the inhabitants of Ukraine, when the inhabitants of Russia themselves consider Ukrainians as "Brothers" and do not understand that they share a part of themselves.
        Call the Siberians the fraternal Siberian people, what kind of Russians are these?
        Siberians, this is the 4th fraternal Slavic people.
        Complete nonsense!
        Great Russians, Little Russians, Belarusians = Russians.
        1. +4
          14 September 2013 18: 14
          Well said!
      2. +1
        14 September 2013 16: 33
        We can not disagree.
  22. AK-47
    +12
    14 September 2013 10: 56
    ... neither the “moderate” Russophobe Taras Shevchenko, nor the “terry” Lesya Ukrainka have such terms as “Ukrainian”, “Ukrainian nation”, but there are Slavs, Little Russians, and Rusyns.

    "Ukraine, or Little Russia, is a vast space connected to the colossus of Russia and consisting of the provinces of Chernigov, Kiev, Kharkov and Podolsk ...." An excerpt from the "Sketch of the History of Ukraine", written by A.S. Pushkin in 1831. (Pushkin A.S. Essay on the history of Ukraine // Pushkin A.S. Complete works: In 10 volumes - L .: Science. Leningrad department, 1977-1979).
    Bismarck was born in 1815.
    1. +10
      14 September 2013 11: 15
      Yak, die
      mene on the grave
      mid-steppe wide
      IN UKRAINE Miles ...
      TG Shevchenko, poem: "He will reserve".
      The last line is about how to write:
      "in Ukraine or Ukraine".
      1. +6
        14 September 2013 11: 29
        Quote: ranger
        in UKRAINE miles ...

        tick "IN UKRAINE", not IN ...
        UKRAINE at that time is a territorial term, and Ukrainian is like Tulyak, Moskvich, Belgorodets, means belonging to this territory, not nationality.
        1. +2
          14 September 2013 17: 04
          Quote: ATATA
          "IN UKRAINE"

          Just in the text - IN UKRAINE. It is often omitted - and th, respectively, and the stress is tolerated, but this is a big difference!
        2. So_o_tozh
          +2
          15 September 2013 01: 48
          Yes fto fy gavarite, tell it to Taras Grigorovich -Our Ukraine

          Love її ... During the lute, (Love her ... At a dashing hour)

          I'll stay a hard minute (Last hard minute)

          For her gentlemen pray (For her gentlemen pray)
    2. Algor73
      +1
      15 September 2013 11: 34
      Something was not heard that Pushkin was a historian, although I went to school for the USSR. But one thing is clear that the division into brothers (older, younger, cousins, etc.) will not lead to anything good. More than 20 years have passed, citizens live in their states, over the years, state ownership has already taken root. As for a Russian, his homeland is Russia, for a Belarusian - Belarus, and for a Ukrainian - Ukraine. And all negative statements leave a negative aftertaste for the nation behind which the "brother" is hiding.
  23. +3
    14 September 2013 10: 59
    originally from Kiev, always smiled at me that the Russians are in Russia, and the Ukrainians in Kievan Rus, Russia are mostly called the outskirts)))
    1. +2
      14 September 2013 15: 22
      Well, that was from the 9th century to the 15th. A large half of the history of Russia.
  24. Larus
    +3
    14 September 2013 11: 03
    An excellent article, it’s a pity that such articles, and programs, don’t go to mass space.
  25. +5
    14 September 2013 11: 13
    As GVF Hegel said, “History repeats itself twice, once in the form of a tragedy, the other in the form of a farce.” The tragedy of our peoples has already happened (1917-1921). Now there is a farce. Three "former" republics present each other with some unthinkable claims. Someone stole gas from someone, then someone, someone did not supply potassium. Well, is it really not clear that our leaders are fighting for POWER?
    For some reason, it seems to me that another ten years will pass and this farce will end. And we will come to a common denominator -
    [img] http: // http: //images.yandex.ru/yandsearch? source = wiz & text = picture together we are invincible & noreask = 1 & img_url = http: //cs9968.userapi.com/u99076551/14585
    5938/s_38dab955.jpg&pos=9&rpt=simage&lr=213&nojs=1[/img]
  26. +1
    14 September 2013 11: 15
    Quote: ZU-23
    originally from Kiev, always smiled at me that the Russians are in Russia, and the Ukrainians in Kievan Rus, Russia are mostly called the outskirts)))

    No, everything is right with the outskirts, you are of course Russia, but that's just Kiev, well, as the province is indicated here. it’s just that the majority makes the first word (Kievskaya) emphasis without thinking about the meaning of the sound and it was formed after Russia, Mr. Veliky Novgorod :-)
    1. 0
      14 September 2013 11: 34
      as if history is not an exact science, I myself use facts only, the great Novgorod is officially 1150 years old, but rumor has it that it’s 1500 years old and officially 1850 years old, Kiev even has a museum with the bones of primitive people, so I just need to understand where I came from Russian people)))
      1. +2
        14 September 2013 12: 15
        ZU-23 RU there is even a museum with the bones of primitive people, so I just need to understand where the Russian people came from))) ====================== =============================================== Strength
        Well, the last argument, well, G.Vladimir was recently counted for 1000 years, and if you consider what you think, then the city is located here: Sungir is the Upper Paleolithic site of an ancient man in the Vladimir region at the confluence of the eponymous stream in the Klyazma river, near Bogolyubovo. Discovered in 1955 during the construction of the plant and investigated by O. N. Bader. The estimated age is 25 thousand years. But we don’t even think of celebrating the 25th millennium of the city.
        1. 0
          14 September 2013 15: 47
          Well, if you really think deeper where a person will be born and survive faster, where it is warm or where it is cold, let's take the same city in Russia Derbent, which is even older than Kievan Rus, he is 2000 years old, and there are conversations from 2.5 to 5000) )))
    2. +2
      14 September 2013 15: 26
      Well, then the Slavs lived in Novgorod (I don’t remember exactly Dregovich or anyone else), but they became Russians after unification under Kievan Rus.
      1. +1
        14 September 2013 15: 55
        Quote: Chegevara
        Well, then the Slavs lived in Novgorod (I don’t remember exactly Dregovich or anyone else), but they became Russians after unification under Kievan Rus.
        Krivichi, Dergovichi, present Belarusians, I don’t remember exactly, but in my opinion, Dergovichi are inhabitants of swamps. But that's why the Russian people got the common name. You missed Kievan Rus, this term is artificial and was coined not so long ago, either by Karamzin or by someone else. As for the self-designation Russian, then the debate has not subsided so far. Here is one version:
        Let's get down to the main thing. A great many tribes and peoples on earth were named according to their preferential habitat, many lagging behind in social development, depending on this circumstance, call themselves to this day. The self-name of the coastal Chukchi is an kalyn ("sea inhabitants"), Evenk reindeer herders and hunters-duncan ("inhabitants of hills"), Bedouins means "steppe", "desert dwellers", Selkups-shesh kul ("taiga man"), African tervin - "forest", Indians Seneca-nunda-ve-o-no ("great people of the hills"), Indonesian Bataks - "living on the water". And the East Slavic early medieval glades are "inhabitants of the fields", Dregovichi - "inhabitants of swamps", Drevlyans - "inhabitants of wilds, forests", but the differences existed only for themselves, and from time immemorial they all settled along the rivers ... And here I am I dare to make an assumption, which, as it seems to me, withstands the requirements of historical linguistics, toponymy, history, logic. If "rusa" is a "river" - the eternal place of settlements of our ancestors, with which their way of life and beliefs have always been so closely connected, "rus" is a Proto-Slavic root that formed such a large nest of words only in Russian. Rus is a half-forgotten mythical Dnieper deity, the generalized ethnonym "Rus" or "Russ" - since ancient times meant "living on the rivers", "river inhabitants", "river people" .. More fully, Chivilikhin, Memory Book Two.
      2. +1
        14 September 2013 15: 57
        If the Russians from Novgorod were still Orthodox, since they give drink to the Russian people from Kiev. As I also read the skirmish between Russian and Ukrainian, the Ukrainian tells him Russian, when Yakubovich asks you on the field of wonders what’s called, what’s called sho, so you say, stand and stupid, and here in Ukraine it’s still called )))
        1. 0
          14 September 2013 17: 13
          What are you talking about now? Prince of Novgorod Vladimir (later Kiev), he was Orthodox since birth belay Have you ever read my post? You read what you wrote, in one phrase your post can be described - everything mixed up in the house of Oblonsky. Yes, this is truly a field of miracles, and if you already started to write, then take the trouble to find out what syntax and then you will be easier to understand.
  27. +8
    14 September 2013 11: 18
    from them, true creators of Ukraine!
    1. +1
      14 September 2013 12: 42
      Quote: Aeneas
      from them, true creators of Ukraine!

      I understand this picture is funny?
      1. +3
        14 September 2013 13: 04
        a fairy tale is a lie, but a hint in it. Good fellows a lesson! hi
  28. +3
    14 September 2013 11: 23
    Quote: “The power of Russia,” wrote Bismarck, “can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it.”
    Through the efforts of Western politicians, Bismarck's dreams, unfortunately, are being realized. The activity of a separate layer of national elites also contributes to this. At the same time, economic ties developed over decades are destroyed. The most technologically advanced industries such as space and aircraft construction are in decline. And there is no person either in Russia or in Ukraine to stop this orgy. So, we give the solution to this issue to our descendants in the distant future! It's a pity...
    1. +2
      14 September 2013 11: 38
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Through the efforts of Western politicians, Bismarck's dreams, unfortunately, come true

      But the Communists have nothing to do with it?
      Why did they enter the nationality column in the passport?
      I think, in order for the Russians in Ukraine to drive into the head that they are Ukrainians.
      1. +1
        14 September 2013 17: 12
        Quote: ATATA
        Why did they enter the nationality column in the passport?
        I think, in order for the Russians in Ukraine to drive into the head that they are Ukrainians.

        No. It was necessary to show that tsarist Russia is a "prison of peoples" - but small peoples - the Chukchi, the Nanais ... well, it's small, but three "oppressed, big, unfortunate ..."
        But here is a double edged sword!
        Right now, our children in schools, even from kindergarten, are being taught - "you live in Ukraine - you are Ukrainian!" And try to prove (and explain to the children) that you are RUSSIAN! And this is done in order to show that there are few Russians living here, therefore the second state Russian language is not needed, to teach children - only in Ukrainian (at least in universities) in schools - if you collect signatures yourself, a class (one) will be opened .... So the nationality is needed!
  29. vikov
    +7
    14 September 2013 11: 25
    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    The article voiced only the topic of the German footprint in the separation of Ukrainians from Russians. And the biggest contribution to this matter was made by the Soviet government, under the leadership of Lazar Moiseevich Kaganovich, who led this process, being the first secretary of the CPSU (b) of Ukraine.


    And why is not Lenin mentioned with Trotsky? after all, it is the Brest Peace that has determined the borders between the Russian Federation and Ukraine at this time.
    1. +7
      14 September 2013 11: 40
      Quote: vikov
      And why is not Lenin mentioned with Trotsky? after all, it is the Brest Peace that has determined the borders between the Russian Federation and Ukraine at this time.

      Naturally!
      Communists, this is generally a German-Zionist project.
      Remember who was the founder of scientific communism.
      70% of the Central Committee of the CPSU are Jews!
      1. vikov
        +3
        14 September 2013 11: 46
        Whatever it was, but to maintain power, national projects were implemented in the 20s, especially when the church was suppressed, and now the Austrians are Germans, alas, they themselves gave birth.
    2. +3
      14 September 2013 13: 02
      Quote: vikov
      after all, it is the Brest Peace that has determined the borders between the Russian Federation and Ukraine at this time.

      Not quite so. A body like the Central Rada was organized in (in) Ukraine after the events of February 1917. Its founders were moderate liberals from TUP, headed by Evgen Chikalenko, Sergiy Efremov and Dmitry Doroshenko, and social democrats led by Volodimir Vinnichenko and Simon Petlyura. A few weeks later, the “Ukrainian Party of Socialist-Revolutionary Party”, which was gaining weight, represented by Mykola Kovalevsky, Pavel Khristyuk and Mikita Shapoval, entered the Central Rada. Mikhailo Grushevsky, who returned from exile, was elected President of the Central Council. Incidentally, Grushevsky arrived from Moscow. On June 23, 1917, the Rada published its first "Universal":

      “Ukrainian people! The people of the peasants, workers, working people!

      By your will, you set us, the Ukrainian Central Rada, on guard of the rights and liberties of the Ukrainian Land ...

      Let Ukraine be free. Without separating from all of Russia, without breaking with the Russian power, let the Ukrainian people on their land have the right to arrange their own life. Let order and order in Ukraine give the popular vote by the popular, equal, direct and secret ballot of the Ukrainian National Assembly (Sejm). All the laws that should give that order here in Ukraine, Ukraine has the right to issue only to the Ukrainian Assembly.

      And those laws that should give order to the entire Russian state should be issued in the All-Russian Parliament.

      No one can know better than us what we need and what laws are best for us.

      No one better than our peasants can know how to dispose of their land. And therefore, we want that after all landowners, state, royal, monastic and other lands will be confiscated throughout the whole of Russia into the ownership of the peoples, when the law on this is published at the All-Russian Constituent Assembly, the right to dispose of our Ukrainian lands, the right to use them belonged only to ourselves, to our Ukrainian Assembly (Sejm). ” Until 1917, the term "Ukrainian people" was not in any encyclopedia. So, any honest politician would first formulate the concepts of “Ukrainian people” and “Ukrainian land.” So, Kerensky, having come to them for negotiations, actually recognized the course towards separation and independence. Since negotiations with the Central Council, Kerensky recognized the right of the General Secretariat manage the five Ukrainian provinces - Kiev, Poltava, Podolsk, Volyn and Chernihiv. It all started from there. By the way, when the Bolsheviks took power in the fall of 17 years in Kharkov, Donbass and Kryvyi Rih, the parliament issued the third Universal, November 20, 1917, in which proclaimed the formation of the Ukrainian People’s Republic (UNR). So, not the Brest Peace, but the weak-willedness of the Provisional Government!
  30. +2
    14 September 2013 11: 48
    Again provocative little article in order to escalate tension between our peoples. fool
    1. MG42
      +3
      14 September 2013 12: 00
      Quote: Good
      Again provocative little article in order to escalate tension between our peoples. fool

      Most of all, the tension is aggravated by our authorities, so Yanukovych yesterday spoke out that Ukraine had fulfilled all the criteria for signing an association with the EU, how do Putin understand such statements ?, at the same time, Azarov says that we will be friends with the Customs Union lol , and Moscow and Brussels put forward a clear condition that sitting on 2 chairs = the ass will crack at Yanukovych .. the 3 + 1 formula has long been rejected in the Kremlin .. so the pressure will inevitably increase.
      1. +4
        14 September 2013 13: 45
        Well, Yanukovych was “good” when he signed the Kharkiv agreements and abandoned NATO? ... He was promised a revision of the gas price, because Ukrainian metallurgy and chemistry became uncompetitively capable. Cheated. The CIS Free Trade Zone was signed. They deceived ... Should he be the most "Russian" than those who sit in the Kremlin? ... Now Ukraine will simply enter the European markets, and then Yanukovych was declared a traitor, hfashyst, etc. Laughter and sin, honestly!
        1. MG42
          +3
          14 September 2013 14: 09
          Quote: Aeneas
          Well, Yanukovych was "good" when he signed the Kharkiv agreements

          Received a discount of $ 100 per 1000 cubic meters, the lease of the base was extended ..

          Hehe, there was one eccentric, nicknamed "matron", he counted everything in the comments for hours and minutes until the Black Sea Fleet was withdrawn from Sevastopol, then disappeared after this news about the Kharkov agreements, I am tormented by guessing what happened to him .. crying
        2. 0
          14 September 2013 17: 17
          Quote: Aeneas
          Now Ukraine will simply enter the European markets,

          Wait! So they let us in! They will push theirs here! And ours "will quietly stand aside." Yes, the same Shell company that was going to extract shale gas from us immediately abandoned Ukrainian pipes - it only needs European pipes.
          1. Oleg Kharkov
            +1
            14 September 2013 22: 06
            Let's just say that Shell tried to refuse. Then, after thinking, and still recognized the quality of Ukrainian pipes to international standards. I suspect she was subtly hinted that without this, another company, Chevron, for example, could take up the development. So the west can be crushed, as with nuclear weapons for nuclear power plants. In general, everything could be a desire.
    2. +2
      14 September 2013 12: 03
      but among normal, adequate people, truth must prevail, regardless of nationality.
  31. 8NEO8
    +2
    14 September 2013 12: 05
    Quote: Siberian German
    Although I am German, I want to say the following - who forbids us to use these methods against the same Europe, USA, etc. we need to clearly set a goal and achieve it by any means. Someone will say that there should be a framework of humanity and something else - but look, they are not shy to sow hatred between nations and achieve their goals, so we should act


    This is what sets us apart from them. We, the Barbarians, have never been like "enlightened" cattle ...
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. +3
    14 September 2013 12: 09
    Every nation is worthy of its government. In general, what to blame on the mirror, since the face is crooked. At the household level, brotherhood is not visible, when Little Russians came to Russia to work and knocked down prices here by 50% or even 75%, this did not add to our "love" for them. Little Russians thought only about their wallet. "Arbeiter" he and in Africa "Arbeiter". By the way, the myth that an independent and not stagnant "power" would live better than in the Soviet Union was blown away at once.
    1. +2
      14 September 2013 13: 39
      vaasche Ukrainians work for free. It’s just that enthusiasts are kind of something, because we have a hot meal.
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. +6
    14 September 2013 12: 30
    How can a simple Ukrainian resist the pressure of lies, dirt, and “analytics” on the one hand and neglect, gloating, insults on the other ???
    The devastation in the minds triumphs.
    Such articles were relevant 10 years ago. Now THIS needs to be treated ELSE.
    New ideas are needed, but no one has them. In addition to geopolitics, no one calls for unification with Ukraine.
    PS Does anyone doubt that South and North Korea are populated by the same people? And has anyone seen a thick c / c / c dictionary?
    PPS In his study, a professor at the University of Vienna, Karl Wojcielka, on the population of the Cisleytan and Translaitan parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire writes:
    in Magyar rutén, self-name - Rusyns, from the beginning of the 20th century - Ukrainians. In the letters and orders of Peter I of the beginning of the XVIII century, the term "Little Russian people" is used. After the creation of the Russian Empire, Muscovites became Russian.
    1. +3
      14 September 2013 13: 37
      Rusyns are the Galicians. And the Ukrainians are the "little trees" that Peter mentioned, and after him. And before that, right up to Elizabeth, they were called Cherkas. In Ukrainian folklore, the term Ukraine is very often mentioned, and I have never heard Little Russia. But in Galicia-Rusyn, I have not heard any mention of "Ukraine".
      1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
        0
        14 September 2013 22: 26
        Read Gogol, Little Russia there at every step and do not say that he was a Muscovite ....
        1. +1
          14 September 2013 23: 22
          Gogol is not hfolol ... This is literature!
    2. xan
      +1
      15 September 2013 01: 26
      Quote: knn54
      How can a simple Ukrainian resist the pressure of lies, dirt, and “analytics” on the one hand and neglect, gloating, insults on the other ???

      And how was it for the Russians in the nineties to consider Ukraine a brotherly country, sell haspopes (270 for Germany) and in response hear all kinds of garbage from Ukrainians, such as the scene from "92 meters"? The Ukrainian has a short memory, it is clear that his own pop-pain is closer.
      But at first it was insulting to the Russians.
  36. Stamp
    +3
    14 September 2013 12: 40
    Otto von Bismarck:
    “The power of Russia can be undermined only by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, set off two parts of a single nation and watch how brother will kill his brother. To do this, you only need to find and cultivate traitors among the national elite and with their help change the self-consciousness of one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”

    About the same principle, only much earlier than Bismarck Divide and Conquer (lat. divide et impera) short and clear, some attribute this phrase to the Roman Senate in ancient times, others to King Louis, the third Machiavelli.
  37. aleshka1987
    +2
    14 September 2013 13: 20
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Putin and the Russian media are doing everything to consolidate the people of Ukraine with their speeches and actions, Putin has failed the regional policy of dividing Ukraine into East and West. Everyone who was loyal to Russian politics began to reconsider their attitude not in favor of Putin. And time. It works against unification. A generation has already grown up, brought up on the bickering of the politicians of the two states. The second will grow up. which will consider itself citizens of neighboring states. Putin's imperial ambitions do not scare us away, they simply push us apart. And all those who believe, like Putin, that an alliance is possible on a "voluntary-compulsory basis" is wrong. Don't trust the venal media. the mouthpiece of power. They did everything to smear us in shit in front of each other. The two khans quarreled, and the forelocks of the slaves creaked from servility towards their masters. Unfortunately, power and time forcefully separate us from each other. We have suppressed everything and allowed this situation to be created. Maybe we will not spread rot against each other and amuse the authorities. Time will tell. It also heals, and the rulers are not eternal.

    Why are you minus? The man wrote the pure truth, although some do not like it ...
  38. Hulk
    0
    14 September 2013 13: 22
    Quote: krpmlws
    There are no divisions in my mind, we are all Russian.

    And in mine there. As a Russian, I respect Ukrainians, Belarusians, Moldavians, Mordovians, Chuvashs, and so on. I like their customs, songs, history. I even love Tajiks, only they would be sitting at home. Not to divide peoples in consciousness means to destroy them. And if I were a Bulgarian, for example, I would proudly say that I am a Bulgarian.
  39. -1
    14 September 2013 13: 26
    And that Ukraine is a state? And there are such people Ukrainians?
    1. 0
      14 September 2013 18: 44
      And the Pereyaslavskaya Rada - does it mean anything to you? With whom did Russia reunite in 1654? With a mirage? In the Soviet Union in 1954, the three hundredth anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine with Russia was widely celebrated ..
      1. +1
        14 September 2013 18: 48
        Quote: ranger
        With whom did Russia reunite in 1654? With a mirage?


        Have you read that contract?
        there is a mention of "Ukraine and Ukrainians"?

        I myself do not know, but you can enlighten.
  40. vkrav
    +2
    14 September 2013 13: 32
    Yes, no matter who invents, the result is obvious ... It’s difficult to talk about the situation in Ukraine with censored words, so I’ll give a fresh statement by Kuchma
    “When I visit plants such as Yuzhmash or Kharkov Aviation, I understand that we are not moving into the 21st century, but returning to the 19th. What is it that out of 60 thousand people, less than 20 thousand people work. Is it work when people work 3 days a week. In addition, only three buildings are heated from the entire huge plant. What high-tech production can we talk about? ”

    http://censor.net.ua/news/253197/kuchma_somnevaetsya_chto_pravoslavie_vedet_ukra
    inu_k_protsvetaniyu_segodnya_samye_bogatye_eto_protestantskie
  41. aleshka1987
    -4
    14 September 2013 13: 36
    Urry! New ventilator sketch! Shmyak! Shmyak! Shmyak!
    1. vkrav
      +3
      14 September 2013 13: 45
      Self-critical! lol
  42. DmitriRazumov
    +3
    14 September 2013 13: 43
    In 1898, Germany launched the idea of ​​creating an "independent Ukrainian nation" within the framework of autonomy on the territory of Austria-Hungary.

    A very dubious statement. T.N. Austria-Hungary (Russian name), but in fact the "Great Roman Empire of the German people" (official name before 1918) or shortly Österreich (Eastern Empire), Austria (English transcription) was the main time of its existence as the worst enemy of Prussia and its main enemy in the struggle for the unification of German lands around Berlin. Characteristic in this respect is the so-called. German-German war, in which the Prussians took the upper hand, thereby forever discouraging Vienna from fighting for leadership in the German-speaking world.
    Therefore, in Austria such a project could exist, but for Berlin and the chancellor personally to be involved, it is highly doubtful.
    1. POBEDA
      0
      14 September 2013 14: 56
      Not quite so .. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation ended in 1806, it was replaced by Austria and Prussia
      1. DmitriRazumov
        +3
        14 September 2013 16: 39
        To be precise, Prussia was never part of Österreich, but was a separate, quite warlike German kingdom, exerting strong political and military pressure on its neighbors, despite the fact that the Prussians were economically inferior to all other German states. During the Napoleonic Wars, i.e. in 1800 Prussia was a consistent member of the anti-Napoleonic coalition. In the 18th century the Prussian king Frederick II successfully fought with Denmark, Saxony and others. Conquering new territories and authority for the Prussians. The only one who made him fail was A.V. Suvorov. In Leningrad, the Suvorov Museum even keeps the king's hat, lost when fleeing the Russian troops, led by the great commander.
  43. Peaceful military
    0
    14 September 2013 13: 55
    This is only the tip of the iceberg, there are still Poles ...
    BUT!
    "ancient", OR, MORE EXACTLY DRUNKY ukram, EVERYTHING WILL BE IN THE EYES, EVERYTHING WILL BE GOD'S ROSA. sad angry
    BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER! GOOD LUCK TO YOU! hi
    1. +1
      14 September 2013 14: 01
      Quote: Peaceful military
      BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER


      wherever there, they have enough of "European integration", we can and remember about the elder brother.

      and this is even in the best case, otherwise it can reach the Polish-Romanian invasion.
      1. Peaceful military
        +2
        14 September 2013 14: 41
        wherever there, they have enough of "European integration", we can and remember about the elder brother.

        Dear Alexander! This is gloating and it is not in my nature. hi
        1. -2
          14 September 2013 15: 13
          Quote: Peaceful military
          This is gloating and it is not in my nature.


          but in my ego (gloating) more than enough.
          I know that I’m sinful, but I like it so much as a fool ... uh, stupid people, they get what they deserve.

          see the time has come for the squares with a full spoon to slurp the brew of "European integration"
          hi
      2. 0
        15 September 2013 12: 10
        -Rider: and this is even in the best case, otherwise you can reach the Polish-Romanian invasion.
        I am surprised that there are no statues who invented Kazakhstan, Belarus ...
        Thank you for your concern. Think better about your neighbor, China. A large territory with a relatively small population, and you have found oil ...
        PS While being in Alma-Ata (October, 1980), I often heard (not from a collective farmer or a worker) -Chinese are our brothers ...
        1. Corneli
          +2
          15 September 2013 13: 07
          Quote: knn54
          I am surprised that there are no statues who invented Kazakhstan, Belarus ...

          I once wrote ... the topic was not supported) but in fact:
          German project - "On March 3, 1918, a peace treaty was signed in Brest-Litovsk, according to which the overwhelming part of the ethnic territory (modern Belarus) came under German control. On March 25, the Belarusian People's Republic was proclaimed in the lands occupied by Germany, which actually existed until the end of the First World War. war. "
          Further: "On January 1, 1919, the Soviet Socialist Republic of Belarus (SSRB) was proclaimed in Smolensk as part of the RSFSR. On January 8, the Red Army occupied Minsk and the capital of the SSRB was moved to Minsk. On January 31, 1919, the republic seceded from the RSFSR and was renamed into Belarusian Socialist Soviet Republic "
          "In March 1924 and December 1926, part of the territory of the RSFSR, namely: parts of Vitebsk (with Vitebsk), Smolensk (with Orsha), Gomel province (with Gomel) were transferred to the Byelorussian SSR. Until 1936, the official languages ​​of the republic, along with Belarusian and Russian were Polish and Yiddish. By the USSR law of November 2, 1939, Western Belarus was annexed to the BSSR. "
          So if Russia quarrels with the dad there simply is not a "plowed field" of any "pritenzy", gifts to Ukraine will rest. In the meantime, they are silent, however, TS
          P.S. In Kazakhstan, the situation is similar ...
          1. Peaceful military
            0
            15 September 2013 18: 47
            So if Russia quarrels with the dad there simply is not a "plowed field" of any "pritenzy", gifts to Ukraine will rest. In the meantime, they are silent, however, TS
            P.S. In Kazakhstan, the situation is similar ...

            Oleg, as they say, is holy truth. "The Great Game" no one has canceled. On this topic, M. Leontiev rummaged deeply and released the eponymous video cycle. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU
        2. Peaceful military
          0
          15 September 2013 16: 24
          Nikolay, in vain you are so excited.
          As for Kazakhstan and Belarus, they were invented, which is no secret to anyone.
          BUT!
          They do not practice national idiocy, pedaling a certain history of their historical exclusivity, ancient statehood, etc. Unlike some.
          About Kazakhs and Chinese, also crap. I have been to Kazakhstan quite a bit (in the north - Kustanay and in the south - Alma-Ata) and with me in the School, in the same study group, children from Kazakhstan studied, and Kazakhs served with me. I didn’t even hear a hint. Do not believe.stop
          With China, it’s not as bad as you try to see. There is a problem, but it is compensated.
          But the long-awaited separation of a large part from Russia is a serious matter, not to say stronger. Moreover, when, brothers Ukrainians, having lifted their trousers, contribute to this, having heard the fables about themselves and us all - this is a tragedy with far-reaching consequences.
          hi
          1. Darakht
            0
            15 September 2013 16: 37
            Quote: Peaceful military
            As for Kazakhstan and Belarus, they were invented, which is no secret to anyone.

            Ahahah, I look here all the states and nations are invented wassat I'm afraid to make a mistake about the state and the nation not invented, but since I’m not sure about this exceptional, I will not say anything.
            Are you by any chance not one of those who lead all of world history from Russians? And then I came across one, his Persians were the Sons of Perun (Iranians, Tajiks, sun-burnt Slavs), and Palestine was the Pale Wall (Jews are bad people, they took away the original Russian lands) ... and in the same way and in the same spirit laughing If anything, I can introduce you, you will tell each other tales in ward number 6 wassat
            1. Peaceful military
              -1
              15 September 2013 18: 57
              Ahahah, I look here all the states and nations are invented

              Leonid, don’t be a fool, I understand that you are young and most likely poorly educated. This is not a rebuke, it is the horror of the last 30 (if not more) years.
              If you were in the know, to your amazement, you would know that many nation-states are EXACTLY INvented. Nobody canceled the "Big Game". M. Leontiev dug deeply on this topic and released a video cycle of the same name. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU hi
              1. Darakht
                0
                15 September 2013 19: 24
                Quote: Peaceful military
                On this topic, M. Leontiev rummaged deeply and released the eponymous video cycle. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU hi

                Thank you so much, perhaps I will refuse, let me be poorly educated, young, but not paranoid. I know better than Theodore Dreiser, Mikhail Bulgakov, Dante with his "Divine Comedy" and other great people, but to watch Leontiev - thank you, I respect myself.
                As for the invented nations, how do we communicate with you? And I'm not Russian, I'm a Hutsul, in the end I'm Ukrainian. Who do you think is raving about us? You or me? Yours faithfully hi
                1. Peaceful military
                  0
                  15 September 2013 19: 37
                  Thank you so much, perhaps I will refuse, let me be poorly educated, young, but not paranoid.

                  Glad for you, Leonid! But, unfortunately, your position looks paranoid, because you are sure that, according to Darwin (which is paranoia), everything happens and is formed by itself ...
                  And I'm not Russian, I'm a Hutsul, in the end I'm Ukrainian. Who do you think is raving about us? You or me?

                  Of course you are! By naivety from youth and ignorance, well, or something else ... You are defending the "truth" about a certain dense, well, that is. "ancient", state-forming people of the Ukrainian, which obviously did not exist and could not be, and at the same time you call yourself a hutsul ... Or are hutsuls preukr_y ...?laughing
                  Best regardshi
                  1. Darakht
                    +1
                    15 September 2013 20: 09
                    Quote: Peaceful military
                    Of course you are! By naivety from youth and ignorance, well, or something else ... You are defending the "truth" about a certain dense, well, that is. "ancient", state-forming people of the Ukrainian, which obviously did not exist and could not be, and at the same time you call yourself a hutsul ... Or are hutsuls preukr_y ...?

                    I will answer you with an excerpt from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, you know smart people wrote it:
                    Ukrainians, along with Russians and Belarusians belong to the Eastern Slavs. Their common ethnic basis was the Old Russian nationality, established by the 10th century. from closely related Eastern Slavic tribes and created its own state - Kievan Rus. Subsequently, as a result of socio-economic and cultural development in the conditions of political disunity of the Old Russian lands during the period of feudal fragmentation (12-14 centuries), three fraternal nationalities gradually formed on the basis of the Old Russian nationality - Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian. From about 14-15 centuries. Ukrainians act as an independent ethnic community with its characteristic features of language, culture and everyday life. The center of the formation of the Ukrainian nationality was the Dnieper region - Kyiv region, Poltava region and southern Chernihiv region. To this ethnic core Ukrainians gravitated to the population of other Ukrainian lands.
                    As for how you express yourself, ukrov, I didn’t slide down to insults, nor did your people call you kaats.a.p.pa.m.i. You know, because of his youth, he is tolerant, and I don’t care about global problems (until my nation starts to get in the way with shit in such low-grade articles). See Leontiev, admire him - let him be your idol and your example, I personally do not consider him an outstanding scientist or a great statesman - an ordinary talker, of which there are many.
                    In the end, I’ll advise you, so you begin to weigh me down with your chauvinism, go to the Tretyakov Gallery - pay attention to the hall with icons, and also pay attention to the cities and chronology. As you go unsubscribe and share the discovery.
                    As for the Hutsuls, there is such a nation, and I am very proud of it. Take a trip to Ivano-Frankivsk, a beautiful city and wonderful people, just don’t say that they are not there, otherwise your tour will end in a nearby psychoneurological boarding school wink
                    1. Peaceful military
                      -1
                      15 September 2013 20: 25
                      I will answer you with an excerpt from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, you know smart people wrote it:

                      Oh Leonid, here, as they say, you "got" ...
                      I feel sorry for you ...
                      If you were a bit (sorry for slang) formed, then you would know what the Khrushchev-Brezhnev correction of the Stalin (Russian-Imperial) national division of the USSR is. By the way, the so-called Ukrainian lobby...
                      And already under this nihilism (not to say stronger), of course, we adjusted the ideological and information base in the form of what you consider to be the truth in the first instance.
                      Not sure the TRUTH will convince you. But that doesn’t bother me ...
                      1. Darakht
                        -2
                        15 September 2013 20: 46
                        Least of all I want to be pitied, especially if it's paranoid half-educated love
                        Quote: Peaceful military
                        Not sure if the TRUTH will convince you. But that doesn’t bother me ...

                        God, have you come down to earth to reveal your TRUTH to me? fellow Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention Ukrainians (including Rusyns), although there is no mention of Russians either, but this does not mean that there are no such nations. True, the Bible mentions Jews, Romans, Philistines ... but there are no Russians.
                        He does not like the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, so what to catch on the contradictions?
                        Quote: Peaceful military
                        most likely little educated. This is not a rebuke, it is the horror of the last 30 (if not more) years.
                        Wikipedia then is not at all an authority, but the shit of the brain is an authority. Good luck, happiness, the main thing is health to you, and yes ... remember "The Master and Margarita"? The author, by the way, is a Russian classic.

                        “But the devil, too?” The patient suddenly asked Ivan Nikolaevich cheerfully.

                        - And the devil ...

                        - Do not contradict! - Berlioz whispered with his lips alone, collapsing behind the professor's back and grimacing.

                        - There is no devil! - bewildered by all this agony, cried out Ivan Nikolaevich not what was needed, - this is the punishment! Stop you freaking out.

                        Then the madman burst out laughing so that a sparrow fluttered out of a linden above the heads of those seated.

                        “Well, this is positively interesting,” the professor said, shaking with laughter, “what you have, whatever you grab, there is nothing!”

                        So you have nothing, there is only a poor Russia and you are a chauvinist, and nothing more. Just do not insult Bulgakov, personally, he did nothing wrong to you.
                      2. Peaceful military
                        +1
                        15 September 2013 21: 48
                        Darakht
                        Well, you are here and heaped up nonsense ...
                        I feel sorry for you doubly ...
                        By the way, I didn’t minus you, they do not offend the wretched ... hi
                      3. Darakht
                        -1
                        15 September 2013 21: 56
                        Quote: Peaceful military
                        Well, you are here and heaped up nonsense ...
                        I feel sorry for you doubly ...
                        By the way, I didn’t minus you, they do not offend the wretched ...

                        And this writes, as he assures, a Soviet officer. Yes, the USSR in the ranks of the Armed Forces kept not only soldiers, but also scoundrels. As for squalor - I didn’t defend that country, I didn’t take the oath to her, that country wasn’t, but there is an Internet troll. So, something is not me. Good luck (now with full right, with feeling, with sense, with arrangement) laughing
                        Change avatar - do not disgrace a great empire hi
          2. +1
            15 September 2013 17: 05
            Quote: Peaceful military
            As for Kazakhstan and Belarus, they were invented, which is no secret to anyone.
            Well, Russia, as it were, was also invented ..
            Padla Anglo-Saxons, Zhidomassons and nemchura .. am
            There is no Russia, but there is the North-West aimak Ulug Ulus.. soldier
            PS A about the Russian Kaganate and the Kiev hakan I think no one should remind anyone.
            1. Peaceful military
              0
              15 September 2013 19: 24
              Well, Russia, as it were, was also invented ..

              Alibek, do not be idiotic, this is not the case. Only the "especially" gifted does not want to see that we are talking about inventing some special nation-states to separate these territories from the body of the general state monolith, WITH THE AIM OF, or destruction, or at least weakening of this monolith.
              "The Great Game" no one has canceled. On this topic, M. Leontiev rummaged deeply and released the eponymous video cycle. Highly recommend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWBo9mEOiaU
              Crazy for you. hi
        3. +1
          15 September 2013 16: 53
          Knn 54 - The reader is not Kazakh, and to Kazakhstan him, I think the drum ..
          I am surprised that there are no stats who invented Kazakhstan
          Yes, there are such articles and books .. I read and erase .. smile
          And about China, so the Kazakhstani Russians regularly poke us - well, like they push us under Russia .. laughing They scare you with Geyropoy, bend you with sweets, but here we go with China and the Taliban ..
          Quote: knn54
          ) Often heard (not from a collective farmer or a worker), the Chinese are our brothers ...
          This, what an interesting story? It is possible in more detail .. It will be very interesting to Kazakhs .. Though we laugh ... Thanks in advance hi
    2. +3
      14 September 2013 14: 31
      Quote: Peaceful military
      BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER!

      Is the game worth the candle? Is it worth spending a lot of energy to convince Ukrainians not to live the way they like? Or can he just use them in the quality in which they like to be?
      1. Peaceful military
        +2
        14 September 2013 14: 42
        Is the game worth the candle? Is it worth spending a lot of energy to convince Ukrainians not to live the way they like? Or can he just use them in the quality in which they like to be?

        This is gloating and it is not in my nature. hi
    3. Peaceful military
      +2
      14 September 2013 14: 38
      BROTHERS UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT Ukrainians, REMEMBER! GOOD LUCK TO YOU!

      Then a mistake came out, for it should be - BROTHERS OF UKRAINIANS, YOU ARE NOT UKR_Y, REMEMBER! GOOD LUCK TO YOU! hi
  44. +6
    14 September 2013 14: 15
    Just left the Ukrainian forum ... CU or EU ... trolls are apparently invisible, and all svidomye work over the hill and praise such activity in every way ... They don’t read any arguments, they immediately start with the expressions that de Russian they don’t like, but they like Ukrainians ... I’m in place of a German, for example, I don’t distinguish a Ukrainian from a Russian at all immediately, unless he introduces himself ...)))
    1. xan
      0
      15 September 2013 01: 20
      Quote: Altona
      They don’t read any arguments, they immediately start with expressions that they don’t like Russians, but love Ukrainians ..

      they don’t like Russians - it's buzzing
      and let the Ukrainians love, they are so funny
  45. +3
    14 September 2013 14: 19
    Svidomo and "integrators" have a lot in common. For example, it is a belief in the gigantic intrinsic value of Ukraine that does not require proof. True, the Svidomye are proud of the fact that all the empires that included Ukraine have collapsed, and the integrators believe that without Ukraine Russia is unworthy to be called Russia ... but these are trifles.
  46. The comment was deleted.
  47. bubble82009
    +2
    14 September 2013 14: 47
    on Friday on Inter is the program of Savik Shustry. here the other day showed their next meeting. there, exactly the same rhetoric flowed from the lips of Hurwitz and other Ukrainian nationalists.
    1. +7
      14 September 2013 15: 06
      Quote: bublic82009
      on Friday on Inter is the program of Savik Shustry


      Note, "appearances to the people" on the air of the smart and jelly-senior, always provoked the situation in the broadcasting country. I can guess who and why called these liberal guys to Ukrainian TV channels when they were "asked" in Russia.
  48. +1
    14 September 2013 14: 58
    Who is embarrassed by the frequency of articles about Ukraine, take the context of social technologies with Ukraine as a special case.

    The questions raised are important, but the article is superficial. Noting the seemingly correct facts, it looks like an agitation, which undermines the credibility of the topic.

    A couple of examples of little thought out topics.

    Did Bismarck invent Ukraine? If Bismarck
    stood for the idea of ​​creating Ukraine
    then it was not what if it was necessary to "create"? The implication, obviously, was quite different. Is "democracy" or "freedom of speech" "being created" now, or do they exist even without "creation"? And if they are, what exactly is "created"?
    And what kind of "Ukraine" was "created"?

    Ukrainian language artificially created on the basis of Russian, Polish, Hungarian and several other languages


    What does the word "created" mean here? Have you tried "create a language"? Try it. "Created" will have to be taught. And teach others.
    And all this at the time of Bismarck?
    Of course, a certain policy was carried out in relation to the language, targeted changes were introduced, etc. But this can hardly be called "creating" a language.

    Several hundred years ago, the Russian language was also very different from the modern one. Read old texts. Was the Russian language "created" too? And the European languages, were they also "created"? Well, they have technology ...

    T. Shevchenko does not have the word "Ukrainians"? Is there a term "Russians"? Does Pushkin have the word "Russians"?
    Is it possible on this basis to draw conclusions about their existence or non-existence?

    But what can we say about technology (real observation) -
    right now, often, on Ukrainian TV, the announcers speak with words that are not in the explanatory dictionary of Ukrainian (!). This is not a language creation, but a deliberate change. It is interesting. Who comes up with new words? Not a television studio is having so much fun.
    (In Russian, they also thought up. You can read V. Khlebnikov.) Only the tasks are different.

    That would be such technologies to pay more attention to, which are visible even in the details. Then you can think about how to use or counteract it.
    Otherwise it turns out that since Bismarck "created" Ukraine, then should we do something the opposite? And where will this lead?
    1. +1
      14 September 2013 15: 53
      - "Russians" is an abusive word! laughing
  49. Spartakv
    +2
    14 September 2013 15: 00
    Read the novels of the "great" Polish writer Heinrich Sienkiewicz (Crusaders, With Fire and Sword, The Flood, Pan Volodyevsky, etc.) for the Poles, Ukrainians have always been "past", and "DUMMY ukram, AT LEAST IN THE EYES, EVERYTHING WILL BE GOD'S DEW".
  50. +5
    14 September 2013 15: 46
    If the article recalls Bismarck, it’s not a sin to remember something else that he said ... Read ... Someone will be interested to know, someone to remember ... And most importantly - EVERYTHING to think about ...

    1. Russia is dangerous by the meagerness of its needs.

    2. With bad laws and good officials it is quite possible to rule the country. But if officials are bad, the best laws will not help.

    3. Be careful to always build castles in the air, these buildings are easier to build than others, but the hardest to collapse.

    4. Even the most favorable outcome of the war will never lead to the decomposition of the main power of Russia, which is based on millions of Russians ... These latter, even if they are dismembered by international treatises, are just as quickly reconnected with each other as particles of a cut piece of mercury ...

    5. Never plot anything against Russia, because it will respond to each of your tricks with its unpredictable stupidity.

    6. The only healthy foundation of a great state is state egoism, not romance, and an unworthy great power to fight for a cause that does not concern its own interest.

    Source: http://www.aphorisme.ru/by-authors/bismark
    1. 0
      14 September 2013 18: 54
      Quote: VasDA
      These latter, even if they are dismembered by international treatises, are just as quickly reconnected with each other as particles of a cut piece of mercury ...

      then the time will come when we will be reunited again. I think it’s not long to wait.
    2. xan
      +1
      15 September 2013 01: 31
      Quote: VasDA
      . The only healthy basis of a great state is state egoism, not romance, and an unworthy great power to fight for a cause that does not concern its own interest.

      all points give away lyrics, except for this.
      requiring equal rights between states read 50 times
      to the gladiator and the Cornelli, as especially dumb - 100 times
      1. Corneli
        +2
        15 September 2013 02: 15
        Quote: xan
        all points give away lyrics, except for this.
        requiring equal rights between states read 50 times
        to the gladiator and the Cornelli, as especially dumb - 100 times

        Khan, you are our "gifted") ATP for a compliment, apparently I offended you with something). By the way, in the quote above, which you liked so much ... the word "great" can be easily removed from there and it will sound like this:
        "The only healthy basis any normal states are state egoism, not romance, and unworthy normal powers to fight for a cause not related to its own interest. "
        And since Ukraine, at the moment, is a sovereign state, it is supposed to defend its interests, not the interests of Gazprom uncles (no matter how it offends them)
        1. xan
          +1
          15 September 2013 22: 03
          Quote: Corneli
          By the way, in the quote above, which you liked so much ... the word "great" can be easily removed from there and it will sound like this:

          if you remove all the lyrics and translate Bismarck into simple language, it will turn out something like this: the state is pursuing a policy that it can pursue based on its interests and capabilities, morality and nobility are not appropriate here. And from here a simple conclusion is that the possibilities of countries are not equal, which means that some countries can afford more than others.
          Hence, I do not understand your cries about the equality of Russia and Ukraine - is Ukrainian power equal to Russian?
          Equality is not required, it is sought, but not by whine, but by deed.
        2. Misantrop
          +1
          15 September 2013 22: 15
          Quote: Corneli
          And since Ukraine, at the moment, is a sovereign state, it is supposed to defend its interests, not the interests of Gazprom uncles (no matter how it offends them)

          If the leaders of Ukraine really defended the interests of the country, and not their own (or their shadow masters), it would be much better and easier. What was the point of Tymoshenko’s gas contract, the old one didn’t end at all, and the gas price was more than acceptable ...
          1. Corneli
            +1
            15 September 2013 22: 57
            Quote: Misantrop
            If the leaders of Ukraine really defended the interests of the country, and not their own (or their shadow masters), it would be much better and easier.

            Duc and what same normal Ukrainian argues with this?)
            Quote: Misantrop
            What was the point of Tymoshenko’s gas contract, the old one didn’t end at all, and the gas price was more than acceptable ...

            What was the point for her and GDP is a separate topic, but well, at least it makes me happy that she sits for him in ... the hospital and does not have the opportunity to stir up "new" "saving" contracts.
      2. xan
        0
        15 September 2013 22: 48
        Quote: xan
        all points give away lyrics, except for this.
        requiring equal rights between states read 50 times
        to the gladiator and the Cornelli, as especially dumb - 100 times

        as the author of the post, I want to remove Corneli from it
        Cornelli was adequate, at least trying to answer the essence of the posts from his point of view.
        1. Corneli
          +1
          15 September 2013 23: 00
          Quote: xan
          as the author of the post, I want to remove Corneli from it
          Cornelli was adequate, at least trying to answer the essence of the posts from his point of view.

          Thank you about the "great white sahib") love
  51. +3
    14 September 2013 16: 16
    "6. The only healthy basis for a great state is state egoism, not romance, and it is unworthy of a great power to fight for a cause that does not concern its own interests."

    A good idea.
  52. +3
    14 September 2013 16: 19
    Whether here or on ukrosites, everyone is looking for someone to blame (by the way, this is a purely Russian problem). Well, what difference does it make where the “scribe” sneaks up and who his parent is!?

    Task for the seventh grade of primary school:

    Three brothers came to the competition, the competition was based on the last one. They gave the go-ahead, and they ran in different directions. When they meet, while running, they “convince” each other that the other is running in the wrong direction, and to be convincing, some cuff, some trip.

    Question: what place will they take? and what is this place called?

    Isn’t it time to stand up and, putting aside all insults, rush in one direction - towards a good life for the people?
  53. +1
    14 September 2013 17: 30
    Bismarck's statement is very outdated. This is not surprising, because times change.
    Now the annexation of Ukraine will not increase Russia’s power in any way, but will only increase its financial and internal political problems. Who will the Batkivshchyna voters vote for in Russia? Guess three times.
    How will the need to “share with brothers” affect Russian pensioners and state employees? Yes, it’s clear how it will affect it. It's just that not everyone thinks about it.
    And foreign policy problems will also increase. In particular, it will be necessary to take on the entire external debt of Ukraine, and it is not small. “The citizens of independent Ukraine” lived in debt for more than 20 years, and they did not notice it. Sooner or later you will have to notice.
    Now there will certainly be those who will say: “we are one people!” As a rule, these are people who understand Ukrainian no more than English. Or even less. But they believe in “one people” sacredly and stupidly.
    1. +1
      14 September 2013 17: 47
      very true words.

      Every nation goes through a period of self-awareness and its path.
      in most cases this is obtained through suffering, pain, destruction and death.
      Ukrainians wanted to be “equal independent partners”?
      for God's sake, very soon they will understand that everything has a price.

      and by the way, you can no longer attribute your sinuses and bumps on the path of “independence” to the damned mskals.
  54. +8
    14 September 2013 17: 43
    An elderly German sits in a Parisian cafe, drinks coffee, and next to him a company of burnt lads drinks moonshine from under the floor and seizes fat.
    The German is perplexed: “Excuse me, gentlemen, where are you from?”
    - Yes, from Ukraine!
    - What is it: Ukraine?
    - Square power, grandfather! We have a coat of arms, anthem, and flag!
    - Where is it?
    - Are you crazy? We have a flag, a coat of arms and a national anthem. You sho Donbass do not know?
    - My father had mines there. But this is Russia!
    - Completely crazy, old one! We have a flag, a coat of arms and a national anthem. Crimea!
    - I am a young man fought in the Crimea with the Russian. But this is also Russia! What language do you have?
    - Ukrainian! Derzhavna mov!
    - How do you say “leg” in Ukrainian?
    - Foot, grandfather!
    - What about the “hand”?
    - Arm!
    The German went crazy: And the “ass”?!!
    - Dupa!
    - So you came up with a coat of arms, anthem and flag because of one STUPID?
    1. Mikola
      -4
      14 September 2013 19: 04
      - You see, good sir, “Russia” was covered in “ass”; everything had to be created anew, starting with the dupa.

      How do you like this political correctness? I wonder what the site admin's reaction will be)
      1. MG42
        +3
        14 September 2013 23: 51
        Quote: Mikola
        “Russia” was covered in “ass”; everything had to be created anew, starting with the dupe.

        You are on the right path, comrade. wassat
  55. LAO
    LAO
    -1
    14 September 2013 18: 33
    The article is the nonsense of a madman! The author has absolutely no knowledge of the history of either Russia or Ukraine.
    Dear Ukrainophobes, don’t bother! Ukraine is going its own way and there is no turning back. After what Russia did with gas for Ukraine (the most expensive in Europe. It turned out to be cheaper to buy from the Germans). Illusions about friendship, family feelings and other things connecting our countries dissipated like fog...
    Russia is an empire and it has imperial ambitions, but any empire eventually falls apart. Even the Roman Empire collapsed, and the Russian Empire even more so...
    1. +1
      14 September 2013 18: 46
      Quote: LAO
      Ukraine is going its own way and there is no turning back.


      Yes, for God’s sake, then just don’t cry that Russia interfered with you here too.
      Quote: LAO
      After what Russia did with gas for Ukraine (the most expensive in Europe.


      You will decide with the Poles and the Balts which of you Russia supplies with the “MOST EXPENSIVE HAZ”.

      or take turns declaring.
      1. Darakht
        +2
        14 September 2013 19: 53
        Quote: Rider
        Yes, for God’s sake, then just don’t cry that Russia interfered with you here too.

        Who's crying here? Judging by the abundance of crap on the site, it is Russia that is crying over Ukraine’s foreign policy.
        1. +1
          14 September 2013 20: 11
          Quote: Daraht
          Who's crying here? Judging by the abundance of crap on the site, it is Russia that is crying over Ukraine’s foreign policy.


          excuse me, WHAT do you call the politics of Ukraine 7

          deflection towards the EU and phrases like “what do you want”?
          There’s no need to cry here, you have to CRY here.
          But I doubt that Russia will be sad.

          Well, to you (Ukraine) - happy sailing.
          I sincerely hope that you will become the 3rd France, or the 4th Singapore.
          1. Darakht
            +1
            14 September 2013 20: 20
            We will remain Ukraine. Without advice and decrees, we’ll somehow figure out our own politics ourselves. As for deflections, as they say: people are not judged by themselves.
    2. +3
      14 September 2013 22: 20
      Quote: LAO
      Ukraine is going its own way and there is no turning back

      Ukraine is not moving forward, it is being led by blind people like you.
    3. MG42
      +2
      14 September 2013 23: 58
      Quote: LAO
      After what Russia did with gas for Ukraine (the most expensive in Europe. It turned out to be cheaper to buy from the Germans)

      The volume of gas purchases from third countries is insignificant and does not change the weather, and the price is not the most expensive in Europe, but corresponds to the average European one, only the transport distance for Ukraine is, of course, much smaller than for Europe.
      And who is to blame for this, who signed a miracle contract with a base price of 450 US dollars per thousand cubic meters, the surname corresponds DUB! wink Well, at the suggestion of Tymoshenko, of course..
      1. Corneli
        +2
        15 September 2013 02: 07
        Quote: MG42
        The volume of gas purchases from third countries is insignificant and does not change the weather, and the price is not the most expensive in Europe, but corresponds to the average European one, only the transport distance for Ukraine is, of course, much smaller than for Europe.
        And who is to blame for this, who signed a miracle contract with a base price of 450 US dollars per thousand cubic meters, the last name corresponds to DUBINA! wink Well, at the suggestion of Tymoshenko, of course..

        So it’s like that, only buying, at a discount), from the “brotherly” people at the “average European” price (and this is, excuse me, the price of France or the Netherlands, which are quite far away and pay normal money for transit - where is the price from) from this “people” (more precisely from particularly conscious activists repeating Gazprom’s mantras) listening to something about “shara” and “freebies”... somehow not very good (
        1. MG42
          +2
          15 September 2013 15: 11
          Quote: Corneli
          So it’s like that, only buying, at a discount), from the “brotherly” people at the “average European” price (and excuse me, this is the price of France or the Netherlands

          That’s what they fought for and they ran into it, the price of European integration = average European prices, for each country there the price is individual and is included in 2-party contracts with Gazprom..
          Tulka sits and pays us for her miracle contract, and Dubina is not involved at all.. wassat if the sprat were more accommodating it would have already jumped out of the zone like Lutsenko..
  56. vikov
    0
    14 September 2013 18: 36
    Quote: SpartakV
    Read the novels of the "great" Polish writer Heinrich Sienkiewicz (Crusaders, With Fire and Sword, The Flood, Pan Volodyevsky, etc.) for the Poles, Ukrainians have always been "past", and "DUMMY ukram, AT LEAST IN THE EYES, EVERYTHING WILL BE GOD'S DEW".


    And this happened, and in the end they raked it off to the fullest - with Fire and Sword.
  57. +1
    14 September 2013 18: 43
    I don’t give a damn about Western requests!!! 50% of my friends are in Ukraine, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc. and I won't let anyone talk bad about them. I am not an oligarch or a politician, and I raised my children on the wave of friendship between peoples! By the way, they don’t understand that Uncle Ikram is Uzbek, and Aunt Valya is Ukrainian! They love them like my friends, that's all!!!
  58. Mikola
    0
    14 September 2013 18: 43
    You can only comment on this with laughter!!! This whole fantasy or nonsense is shattered by one question - And without Ukraine, is the rest of Russia simply incomplete?! What kind of “united” people and state is this that is many times superior to Ukraine, that without Ukraine considers itself inferior?! This needs to be addressed to psychologists. Or Bismarck even then made a psychological diagnosis of Russian statehood, which without Ukraine turns out to be incomplete... and this idea is also nonsense.
    1. +4
      14 September 2013 20: 03
      What does it have to do with not being full-fledged? Russia, unlike Ukraine, is a strong independent country with a strong army and navy. 6th largest economy in the world. The only country in the world, as recent events show, that can argue and to which the United States listens. Russia is now rising from its knees. The fraternal people of Ukraine could participate in the revival of a mighty state! But if not, we won't be offended.
      1. +1
        14 September 2013 22: 22
        Quote: Stas157
        What does it have to do with not being full-fledged? Russia, unlike Ukraine, is a strong independent country with a strong army and navy

        Stas, don’t throw pearls.... wink
      2. Corneli
        +2
        15 September 2013 02: 48
        Quote: Stas157
        What does it have to do with not being full-fledged? Russia, unlike Ukraine, is a strong independent country with a strong army and navy. 6th largest economy in the world. The only country in the world, as recent events show, that can argue and to which the United States listens. Russia is now rising from its knees. The fraternal people of Ukraine could participate in the revival of a mighty state! But if not, we won't be offended.

        Many people can argue) Ukraine is arguing with Russia. And in general, many people argue with the “only country”, for example such “monsters of politics” as the Baltic countries or Georgia. And for example, the DPRK and Iran (the 5th and 9th largest armies in the world) argue with the USA (except Russia) and how? is there much use? or maybe their “disputes” will make their citizens’ lives better?
        And they “listen” to you (no offense) FIRST of all because of the presence of nuclear weapons in large quantities. Let’s say, if Liechtenstein had the same number of nuclear missiles, they would also “listen” to him.
        But in essence, Russia is a self-sufficient country that has everything you could want, except for the intelligence of its rulers (as a rule). If Russia used its potential wisely, it would truly be the strongest in the world. But for now, alas and ah. And about “revival” and “evil, ungrateful Ukrainians,” answer yourself a couple of simple questions:
        "Which countries will support Russia if she gets sick?" (as for the USA, I have no doubt that many, although they are...)
        “Do you know many countries that can be called “friends of Russia”?”
        “why, having a strong army, and a nuclear bomb, and a bunch of resources, and the 6th economy in the world, when Russia wanted to proclaim the independence of South Ossetia, even Belarus and Kazakhstan did not support it, the partners in the Customs Union recognized as many as 4!!! states. And when the United States wanted to “not listen” to Russia’s opinion and recognize Kosovo, they were supported by 103!!! states.”
        These are the pies... and I personally don’t see anything good, Russia’s enemies are not decreasing, but friends...
        1. xan
          +1
          16 September 2013 23: 45
          Quote: Corneli
          "Which countries will support Russia if she gets sick?" (as for the USA, I have no doubt that many, although they are...)
          “Do you know many countries that can be called “friends of Russia”?”
          “why, having a strong army, and a nuclear bomb, and a bunch of resources, and the 6th economy in the world, when Russia wanted to proclaim the independence of South Ossetia, even Belarus and Kazakhstan did not support it, the partners in the Customs Union recognized as many as 4!!! states. And when the United States wanted to “not listen” to Russia’s opinion and recognize Kosovo, they were supported by 103!!! states.”
          These are the pies... and I personally don’t see anything good, Russia’s enemies are not decreasing, but friends...

          I just can’t understand Bismarck’s words about state egoism. It follows from them that there are no friends in the international arena, there are only fellow travelers and partners, as well as sixes who need something from their patron. And all political history is confirmation of these words, including the present time. Here we go again with that broken record about friends.
          Reduce gas and oil prices, open the market, and this is all easy to do - and the state will have a lot of friends. But why are they needed?
  59. 0
    14 September 2013 18: 55
    Quote: Rider
    and by the way, you can no longer attribute your sinuses and bumps on the path of “independence” to the damned mskals.

    Well, why?
    They write it off, of course. They've been writing it off for 20 years now, and nothing.
    1. +1
      14 September 2013 19: 12
      Quote: Sour
      They've been writing it off for 20 years now, and nothing.


      WHOOOO?!!!
      AGAIN WE EATED THEM FAT?!1!

      laughing
      1. 0
        14 September 2013 22: 33
        No, didu. We just bit him a bit. laughing
      2. MG42
        +4
        14 September 2013 23: 44
        Quote: Rider
        WHOOOO?!!!
        AGAIN WE EAT THEM FAT?
  60. +5
    14 September 2013 19: 23
    “Before we unite, and in order to unite, we must first resolutely and definitely disengage.” Everything according to the wise old man Krupsky. One to one!
  61. +6
    14 September 2013 22: 34
    As long as governments continue to divide green candy wrappers among themselves, they will not allow one people to unite. Whoever has the pieces of paper with the presidents in their hands will rule, either on the one hand or on the other.
  62. NOBODY EXCEPT US
    +1
    14 September 2013 22: 35
    The article is muddy, about nothing, or rather about no one, if you follow the author, Ukrainians as a people never existed, but for the last 70 years they seemed to exist,,,,,,,,, and on the topic of unification I will say this, judging by the actions of Zadrishchenko , this is hardly the goal, and even imagine that after Gen.’s demand. The Russian prosecutor's office should IMMEDIATELY release our oligarch, Old Man will react harshly, I think, but neither Old Man nor Yanush can afford to unite under the conditions of being Putin's slave......
  63. msv
    0
    14 September 2013 23: 28
    The article is on topic, but not deep. There is not enough logical structure of what, when and why.
    Despite this article +
  64. 0
    14 September 2013 23: 48
    Quote: Sibiryak
    come more often to your relatives in Siberia, I think they will be very happy and believe me, we have no division into Russians and Ukrainians,

    absolutely right!!!

    I’m even east of Krasnoyarsk,
    There are Ukrainians, Russians, Tatars, Mordovians... a lot of people... but somehow we are all just people here
  65. +2
    15 September 2013 00: 13
    KARSU

    Where did I write this? Will you be able to make a quote? Or have you wandered at all?

    Whose protectorate? Who is going to protect us ..?


    protectorate of Ukraine, have you heard of this?
    or do you think that the Germans left you as the masters of Ukraine 7
    and you translated it to Putin, and it turns out that you, the Germans and the GDP are the same
    Well, yes, a great victory)) over Turkey itself)

    well, just over one of the strongest countries of that time.
    This is the logic, so you will soon reach the point where you will declare the victory over Napoleon a trifle.
    I don’t know, if you are interested, find a textbook.

    that is, you don’t even intend to study 7
    strange.
    where did I write that the Republic of Ingushetia lost to France or are you not reading well? And are you not aware of the lost battles with the participation of the Republic of Ingushetia troops? Maybe the Republic of Ingushetia also fought alone with Napoleonic France?
    you FOCUSED attention on DEFEATS and left the overall result out of brackets.
    it turned out like the Azerbaijani fans of the Grand Porte; Russia had lost wars to Turkey so much that Turkey lost the Crimea, the Caucasus and the Balkans.

    Well, and also, don’t you know that France ALSO was NOT ALONE in attacking Russia?
    Or is this not taught in your textbooks either?
    It's not meant to be.
    Quote: Rider
    but these are excesses of independence (from the brain)

    Are you from personal experience?

    well, why, this is from the experience of Square, first asks to be taken under the wing, then whines about occupation.
    there is complete independence from logic.
    1. 0
      15 September 2013 00: 34
      reply to the second post from 00:00
      Well, they believed the promises, and, unfortunately, they didn’t receive war at once with everyone.

      because the gut is thin, so they asked to accept it.
      Really?
      Russia returned the southern part of Bessarabia, lost after the Crimean War, and annexed the Kars region, populated by Armenians and Georgians.

      oh, I'm so sorry, huh southern part of Bessarabia Is this like the original Russian lands?
      Basically dream about any defeats

      I mean, we can roll back all our defeats later, but for you, yes, just dream
      I am personally proud that we gained independence without bloodshed.

      after a HUGE struggle with the occupation redhead.
      It’s even funny to read about your “pride”, but as for the war, it’s not evening yet.

      Well, let's skip the swearing
      more...
      Russian Turkish 1877-78gg will do.
      no, in principle, it won’t work - it’s weak for such a huge Russian empire, if they would take Istanbul, another thing, the straits there.

      did you say something about the lack of victories?
      so here's your victory.
      or again “special” Ukrainian logic, they lost in Krmyskaya (without losing their land)
      this is kind of considered
      but to smash one of the leading countries of that time, and to slaughter the inhabitants of the country is kind of unthinkable, since we haven’t conquered the whole world yet.

      however, who am I talking about logic to?
      1. +4
        15 September 2013 10: 15
        Quote: Rider
        because the gut is thin, so they asked to accept it.

        Well, if this were so, then the ambassadors would immediately go to Moscow to fall at the feet of the Tsar, but conditions would not be set, and Muscovy would not send ambassadors to Pereyaslov.
        Quote: Rider
        oh, I’m wildly sorry, but the southern part of Bessarabia is like the original Russian lands?

        Only the ORIGINAL Russian lands are considered losses)))) not exactly their kundskamera example)))
        Quote: Rider
        after a FUCKING fight against the occupation redhead

        There was such a thing, there was cooperation.
        Quote: Rider
        It’s even funny to read about your “pride”, but as for the war, it’s not evening yet.
        You can see what good patriots the Moscow people are, and after that someone else talks about unification and alliances and scares them with dead Germans.

        Quote: Rider
        did you say something about the lack of victories?
        so here's your victory.

        some kind of pale victory, which honestly doesn’t even deserve special mention. About like your last one over Georgia.
        Quote: Rider
        , they lost in Krmyskaya (without losing their land)
        this is kind of considered
        They lost the Crimean one, but can you give a link where someone else, at least a little more authoritative, says that they didn’t lose, but I’ll point you to Wikipedia so that you don’t have to go far.
        1. +2
          15 September 2013 11: 42
          Quote: Kars
          Well, if that were the case, then the ambassadors would immediately go to Moscow to fall at the feet of the Tsar

          that is, “the great and mighty power of Ukraine,” which prostrates its enemies with its very name, did NOT ask for the hand of the Russian Tsar?
          Like, is this Neshchitova again?
          Well, what about the war that followed, in which Russia defended Ukraine, does it fit the name PEOPLE’S in which our peoples fought side by side, or is it also a “wrong war”?
          Quote: Kars
          Only the ORIGINAL Russian lands are considered losses)))) not exactly their kundskamera example)))


          Poor thing, you still can’t find the difference between victories and defeats.
          The war was in the CRIMEA, and part of the land was given to the devil somewhere - in Bukovina, and this despite (as I already said) that at the same time they repulsed the attack on Solovki, Kamchatka, and Kranstadt
          Let me remind you that the “victorious” countries left Russia, and the “defeated” Russia left Crimea behind.
          I guess I’ll have to take care of your education.
          Quote: Kars
          Quote: Rider
          after a FUCKING fight against the occupation redhead

          There was such a thing, there was cooperation.

          “there was and such”, of course it was, but I didn’t think that you would have the audacity to recognize the UPA and other Banderaites as “fighters for independence”
          Here it is “independence logic” in all its glory.
          Quote: Kars
          what a pale victory

          n, yeah - the insanity grew stronger.
          means Crimean, where the “winners” left without a quick slurp - this is DEFEAT!
          but liberating all the Balkans is such a trifle that it’s not worth mentioning.
          and the Ottoman Empire can be equated with Georgia by a person who not only did not teach logic and history, but also had no clue about geography
          Quote: Kars
          They lost the Crimean one, but can you give a link to where someone else, at least a little more authoritative, says

          Hello, pale young man with a burning gaze
          WHERE DID I SAY THIS WAS VICTORY !?
          I said that in this war the losses were MINIMUM.
          It turns out you also read poorly.
          1. +2
            15 September 2013 12: 06
            Quote: Rider
            that is, “the great and mighty power of Ukraine,” which prostrates its enemies with its very name, did NOT ask for the hand of the Russian Tsar?

            Not the way you imagine it in your twisted fantasy.
            Quote: Rider
            Well, what about the war that followed, in which Russia defended Ukraine, does it fit the name PEOPLE’S in which our peoples fought side by side, or is it also a “wrong war”?

            what kind of war this is, and especially a people’s war. And it defended not just Ukraine (even though you said that it didn’t exist then)) but Moscow’s own interests.
            Quote: Rider
            Poor thing, you still can’t find the difference between victories and defeats.

            So according to YOU, only the original Russian lands are considered losses))
            Quote: Rider
            The war was in the CRIMEA, and part of the land was given to the devil where

            They gave it back, and in connection with the loss of the Crimean War and the loss of Sevastopol
            Quote: Rider
            “there was and such”, of course it was, but I didn’t think that you would have the audacity to recognize the UPA and other Banderaites as “fighters for independence”

            What does this have to do with impudence, these are facts - it happened, including the fight for the independence of Ukraine, the methods, of course, were still the same, but there was no particular choice. I think no one will say that it was possible to wage a political struggle in the USSR.
            Quote: Rider
            means Crimean, where the “winners” left without a quick slurp - this is DEFEAT!
            It’s good that you didn’t slurp))) the Black Sea Fleet alone, which ended up at the bottom, is worth something.

            Quote: Rider
            but liberating all the Balkans is such a trifle that it’s not worth mentioning.

            They released it just like that - and it was especially needed? But there were no straits.
            Quote: Rider
            and the Ottoman Empire can be equated with Georgia by a person who does not only teach logic and history

            Well, yes, the Ottoman Empire, which declared itself bankrupt from a loan of 10 million pounds))
            and approximately equal victories in importance.
            Quote: Rider
            WHERE DID I SAY THAT THIS WAS A VICTORY!?

            So does this mean defeat after all?
            1. 0
              15 September 2013 12: 33
              Quote: Kars
              Not the way you imagine it in your twisted fantasy.

              Yes, it was so, they asked - uncle, protect us, we ourselves cannot cope not only with such a midget as the Ottoman Empire, but even with its pathetic vassal - the Crimean Khan.
              Quote: Kars
              what kind of war this is, and especially a people’s war.


              Well, of course, you discard everything that does not fit into the concept approved by the new authorities.
              so which of us dodges by inventing tall tales 7
              Quote: Kars
              So according to YOU, only the original Russian lands are considered losses))
              They gave it back, and in connection with the loss of the Crimean War and the loss of Sevastopol

              So, in your opinion, only conquests of the entire earth are considered VICTORIES?
              besides, I said that they lost it - then they returned it.
              but in one case you have an undoubted defeat, and in the other - so be it, a trifle.
              besides, you again missed the geography lesson, where is Crimea and where is Kars

              logic?! (but let's not talk about sad things)
              Quote: Kars
              They released it just like that - and it was especially needed? But there were no straits.

              They WON just like that, but whether it’s necessary or not is the tenth matter.
              Well, in terms of watering - in 45, the troops of England and the USA DIDN’T TAKE Berlin, did they stop being winners because of this?
              wonderful twists of consciousness of an independent patriot.
              Quote: Kars
              and approximately equal victories in importance.


              It didn’t seem that way to the British at Gallipoli.
              but as I understand it, this is not an argument for you, since even the Cossack atamans could defeat a weak Turkey, but they preferred to please the Crimeans.
              what a bitch.
              Why are you so, you could handle it yourself, that’s business.
              1. +2
                15 September 2013 12: 49
                Quote: Rider
                yes it was, they asked - uncle, protect

                Yeah, and they also set conditions, and the Muscovy embassy came all the way to Peryaslov))
                Quote: Rider
                you discard.
                so which of us dodges by inventing tall tales 7

                Otherwise, you would have given some arguments that you were right, and would not have been dodging unfoundedly.
                Quote: Rider
                So, in your opinion, only conquests of the entire earth are considered VICTORIES?

                Well, not all of it, but at least some land, besides the land there are political dividends, etc.
                Quote: Rider
                besides, I said that they lost it - then they returned it.

                Really? you said

                Quote: Rider
                the fact is that she lost so much that she did not lose a meter of her land.
                So what did they return then?)) Did you lie?
                Quote: Rider
                but in one case you have an undoubted defeat, and in the other - so be it, a trifle.

                In the case of the Crimean one, this is a fundamental defeat, from which the Republic of Ingushetia has been recovering for 20 years, and the victory in the Russian/Turkish war is nothing special, with a huge expenditure of resources.
                Quote: Rider
                besides, you again missed the geography lesson, where is Crimea and where is Kars
                Is it strange that its geographical location will change the fact of the return of Kars? Again they showed that you are unfamiliar with logic.

                Quote: Rider
                They WON just like that, but whether it’s necessary or not is the tenth matter
                Of course, killed soldiers, wasted resources)) these are such little things, but whether they are necessary or not.

                Quote: Rider
                Well, in terms of watering - in 45, the troops of England and the USA DIDN’T TAKE Berlin, did they stop being winners because of this?
                They didn’t take Berlin personally, but they received occupation zones in Berlin, as well as bases on German territory, but the Republic of Ingushetia received nothing along the straits.

                Quote: Rider
                It didn’t seem that way to the British at Gallipoli.
                What are you sad about?

                Quote: Rider
                but as I understand it, this is not an argument for you, since even Cossack atamans could defeat weak Turkey
                Well, there were raids against the Turks, we fought against them, we were in alliance with them - something like that.

                Quote: Rider
                what a bitch.
                Why are you so, you could handle it yourself, that’s business.
                Well, of course, I’m flattered that the Zaporozhye army is placed on the same level as the Russian Empire))) this is another indicator that you and logic are incompatible.
                1. +1
                  15 September 2013 13: 19
                  Quote: Kars
                  Yeah, and they also set conditions,

                  the same thing - protect, uncle.
                  Quote: Kars
                  otherwise you would have given some arguments that you were right

                  yes, I constantly bring them up, but they are not included in your “theory” and therefore are discarded by you
                  Well, exactly - if the facts contradict the theory, so much the worse for the facts.
                  Quote: Kars
                  Well, not all of it, but at least some land, besides the land there are political dividends, etc.

                  quote from wiki "Russia returned the southern part of Bessarabia, lost after the Crimean War, and annexed the Kars region, inhabited by Armenians and Georgians."
                  The poor car has already lied and doesn’t remember what he gave the reference to.
                  Quote: Kars
                  So what did they return then?)) Did you lie?

                  and besorabia is Smolensk7
                  and Kars - Vladivostok?
                  and someone else was squealing about the lack of dividends
                  Quote: Kars

                  In the case of the Crimean one, this is a fundamental defeat, from which the Republic of Ingushetia has been recovering for 20 years, and the victory in the Russian/Turkish war is nothing special, with a huge expenditure of resources.

                  in the case of the Crimean territorial losses are minuscule, and in the Balkans the liberation of a LOT of large lands
                  Geography is definitely not your thing.
                  You have succeeded in verbiage.
                  Quote: Kars
                  They didn’t take Berlin personally,

                  so can they be considered winners?
                  after all, they didn’t take the enemy’s capital.
                  and think about the straits STILL NOT RUSSIAN, so we didn’t win the Second World War either.
                  when will you start thinking before tormenting the keyboard.
                  Quote: Kars
                  Well, there were raids against the Turks, we fought against them, we were in an alliance with them - something like this

                  and that's it 1
                  After all, in your opinion, the Turks are weaklings who are not worth taking into account.
                  and about the great Zaporozhye army I will say this, they were so victorious that they asked for protection
                  protect us uncle, we are being offended
                  1. +3
                    15 September 2013 13: 31
                    Quote: Rider
                    the same thing - protect uncle

                    And give them liberties, and the Zaporozhian army of 60 should remain))) But they deceived them, and then they want something.
                    Quote: Rider
                    yes I bring them all the time

                    You are talking nonsense, and mostly some kind of jumping around. Remember the protectorate, or something else.
                    Quote: Rider
                    quote from wiki "Russia returned the southern part of Bessarabia, lost after the Crimean War, and annexed the Kars region, inhabited by Armenians and Georgians."
                    Are you already delusional about the Crimean War? I personally wrote this about the Russian-Turkish war, while at the same time catching you in a LIE about the peaceful return of those lost in the Crimean War.

                    Quote: Rider
                    and besorabia is Smolensk7
                    Didn't you study geography?

                    Quote: Rider
                    and Kars - Vladivostok?
                    and?
                    After that, Kars was not handed over to Turkey following the defeat of the Republic of Ingushetia in the Crimean War?

                    Quote: Rider
                    and someone else was squealing about the lack of dividends
                    From the Rat defeat, I cited what anti-dividends RI received.

                    Quote: Rider
                    in the case of the Crimean territorial losses are minuscule, and in the Balkans the liberation of a LOT of large lands

                    Well, it’s minuscule, not minuscule, but you lied. At the same time, the Republic of Ingushetia did not receive territory in the Balkans.
                    Quote: Rider
                    so can they be considered winners?

                    They can, especially since they assisted in the war.
                    Quote: Rider
                    and think about the straits STILL NOT RUSSIAN, so we didn’t win the Second World War either

                    Really? And in the Second World War the USSR fought with Turkey)))))) well, come on)))
                    Quote: Rider
                    After all, in your opinion, the Turks are weaklings who are not worth taking into account.
                    At a certain moment in history you are weak, at another moment you have great strength. But this does not particularly apply to Galipoli.

                    Quote: Rider
                    and about the great Zaporozhye army I will say this, they were so victorious that they asked for protection
                    protect us uncle, we are being offended
                    Well, this is only in your perverted fantasy, in reality everything was not like that. Those who ask do not set conditions.
                    1. +2
                      15 September 2013 13: 53
                      Quote: Kars
                      the Zaporozhian army of 60 should remain)

                      Why can’t the mighty Viysk Zaporizhzhya cope with the weak little Turkey 7
                      You stubbornly refuse to see Turkey as a worthy adversary.
                      so we could handle it ourselves.
                      there would be no point in blaming the occupiers later
                      Quote: Kars
                      You are talking nonsense

                      Well, if in your opinion this nonsense is WWII and 1812, then there’s definitely something wrong with your head.
                      Quote: Kars
                      During the Crimean War or what?

                      in the Balkan miracle you are in feathers, you also tweeted something that Russia did not receive any dividends.
                      liar, he no longer remembers what he wrote and what he referred to
                      Quote: Kars
                      Didn't you study geography?

                      Quote: Rider
                      and Kars - Vladivostok?
                      and?
                      After that, Kars was not handed over to Turkey following the defeat of the Republic of Ingushetia in the Crimean War?

                      From the Rat defeat, I cited what anti-dividends RI received.

                      and that after the Balkans Russia did not acquire anything?
                      YOU YOURSELF PROVIDED THE LINK and now you’re dodging it,
                      n, yes, where is the car, and where is the logic.
                      Quote: Kars
                      They can, especially since they assisted in the war.

                      this means there is a break in the pattern, the allies did NOT occupy the capital of the enemy country, but they are the winners, but Russia did NOT occupy Istanbul, and it is NOT the winner
                      How you can fit such mutually exclusive paragraphs in your head is beyond comprehension.
                      however, alternative logic a la independence in all its glory
                      Quote: Kars
                      Really? And in the Second World War the USSR fought with Turkey))))

                      but he held sufficient forces in the Caucasian direction, and it turns out that by NOT capturing the straits we did not win the Second World War?
                      Quote: Kars
                      But this does not particularly apply to Galipoli.

                      Yes, everything doesn’t apply to you that doesn’t fit into the Procrustean bed of your “theory”
                      Quote: Kars
                      Those who ask do not set conditions.

                      So the great and powerful do not ask for protection.
                      They should have dealt with the Turks themselves since they are such weaklings.
                      1. +3
                        15 September 2013 15: 13
                        Quote: Rider
                        Viysko Zaporozhye can’t cope with a weak little Turkey 7

                        Well, the RI army was even larger, and also couldn’t cope much.
                        Quote: Rider
                        you stubbornly refuse to see Turkey as a worthy adversary
                        and you stubbornly fail to realize that Turkey, in different historical periods, was an enemy of varying degrees.

                        Quote: Rider
                        in the Balkan miracle you are in feathers, you also tweeted something that Russia did not receive any dividends.
                        Somehow you are lying, the talk was that you were lying, that the Republic of Ingushetia did not lose territory to the Crimean Republic, and the Russian/Turkish dividends are rather weak,

                        Quote: Rider
                        and that after the Balkans Russia did not acquire anything?

                        Can I quote where I said that? But in the BALKANS, RI did not acquire any territory, yes.

                        Quote: Rider
                        this means there is a break in the pattern, the allies did NOT occupy the capital of the enemy country, but they are the winners, but Russia did NOT occupy Istanbul, and it is NOT the winner
                        Winner in what? You’ve already lied so much that you don’t understand what you’re writing.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but he held sufficient forces in the Caucasian direction, and it turns out that by NOT capturing the straits we did not win the Second World War?

                        I repeat the question for the slow-moving USSR, did it fight with Turkey? Did Turkey even take part in the Second World War?
                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes, everything doesn’t apply to you that doesn’t fit into the Procrustean bed of your “theory”

                        Well, show that Galipoli was not a peripheral operation.
                        Quote: Rider
                        So the great and powerful do not ask for protection.

                        Well, don’t belittle yourself, there were still fewer of us than Vasily Turks and Poles. But we still didn’t agree to unconditional accession,
                        Quote: Rider
                        we should deal with the Turks ourselves since they are such weaklings
                        In that time period they were not as weak as in the second half of the 19th century.
                      2. +2
                        15 September 2013 15: 52
                        [quote=Kars]Well, the RI army was even larger, and also couldn’t cope much.

                        and you stubbornly fail to realize that Turkey, in different historical periods, was an enemy of varying degrees.[/quote]
                        it couldn’t cope that Türkiye lost its possessions in the Balkans and the Caucasus,
                        and you don’t take into account that other states experienced the same difficulties.
                        or again a one-sided approach
                        just brilliant, read out the losses of the emergency on one side - these are losses, but on the Turkish side - these are such trifles
                        [quote=Kars]the talk there was that you lied, that the Republic of Ingushetia did not lose territory to the Crimean Republic, and the Russian/Turkish dividends were rather weak,[/quote]

                        Can I quote where I said that? But in the BALKAN RI did not acquire any territory, yes.[/quote]
                        The little girl still can’t understand the difference between her own lands and the conquered ones, great.
                        So we smashed the Kwantung army, but China and Japan itself didn’t annex, didn’t we win either? Or should we have taken Tokyo 7

                        [quote=Kars]I repeat the question for the slow-witted
                        Well, show that Galipoli was not a peripheral operation.[/quote]
                        I repeat the question for those who are slow-witted: are the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition victors if they did not take part in the assault on Berlin.
                        and please prove that Turkey was a weakling not worth the effort.[quote=Kars]Well, don’t belittle yourself, there were still fewer of us[/quote]who’s belittling you?
                        The mighty Ukraine sought protection, but it was weak itself.
                      3. +2
                        15 September 2013 16: 03
                        Quote: Rider
                        it couldn’t cope that Türkiye lost its possessions in the Balkans and the Caucasus,

                        This is the historical moment when the Pereyaslovskaya Rada was signed + well, 20 years?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and you don’t take into account that other states experienced the same difficulties

                        Why don’t I take it into account? As it is clear from history that the nineteenth, early 20th century was the decline of both the Ottoman and Russian empires, and the Austro-Hungarian (prisons of peoples), while the Ottomans were in a worse position.
                        Quote: Rider
                        just brilliant, read out the losses of the emergency on one side - these are losses, but on the Turkish side - these are such trifles

                        depending on where and when, and in comparison with the effort expended.
                        Quote: Rider
                        I repeat the question for those who are slow-witted: are the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition victors if they did not take part in the assault on Berlin.
                        Let's get back to why you are asking this? What is my answer?

                        Quote: Kars
                        They can, especially since they assisted in the war.

                        allows you to prove or disprove?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and please prove that Türkiye was a weakling not worth the effort
                        The fact of bankruptcy does not suit you?

                        Quote: Rider
                        who's belittling you?
                        you are putting yourself down.


                        Quote: Rider
                        The mighty Ukraine sought protection, but it was weak itself.

                        as I already said, there weren’t as many of us as there were Ottomans and RI.
                      4. 0
                        15 September 2013 16: 17
                        Quote: Kars
                        This is the historical moment when the Pereyaslovskaya Rada was signed + well, 20 years

                        What do you mean by that ?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Why don’t I take it into account? As it is clear from history that the nineteenth, early 20th centuries of the Ottoman Empire

                        It was a long sunset.
                        Moreover, the British could not cope with the “sunset” empire
                        Quote: Kars
                        Let's get back to why you are asking this? What is my answer?

                        so that you understand that failure to fulfill any intention at the beginning of a war is not a sign of a “weak victory”
                        but it reaches you like a duck - it reaches you on the 3rd day
                        Quote: Kars
                        and please prove that Türkiye was a weakling not worth the effort
                        The fact of bankruptcy does not suit you?

                        oh, and right now the “most democratic” state is in debt like silk, this is evidence of its MILITARY weakness.
                        try to give more compelling arguments
                        Quote: Kars
                        you are putting yourself down.

                        as I already said, there weren’t as many of us as there were Ottomans and RI.

                        on the contrary, (if you haven’t noticed, then I always say that the Turks were a strong opponent, who turned out to be too tough for some.
                        and this is precisely why you asked for help from Moscow.
                        otherwise they would have managed it themselves.
                      5. +2
                        16 September 2013 10: 07
                        Quote: Rider
                        What do you mean by that ?

                        That’s what I want. That in that historical period the Ottoman Empire was a force to be reckoned with.
                        Quote: Rider
                        It was a long sunset.
                        Moreover, the British could not cope with the “sunset” empire

                        long, while the British snatched it from Turkey)) you are trying to pass off an EPISODE of the Galipoli peripheral operation as unknown, but in the end the Turks lost.
                        Quote: Rider
                        so that you understand that failure to fulfill any intention at the beginning of a war is not a sign of a “weak victory”
                        but it reaches you like a duck - it reaches you on the 3rd day

                        Well, don’t compare with yourself, compared to you, a duck is the height of intelligibility, and this phrase of yours is completely nonsense. Even using the example that the Allies did not take Berlin in the Second World War, but in the RESULT, they received both occupation zones in Berlin and participated in accepting capitulation - if you follow your duck logic, RI should have received at least half of the straits as a result, but not fate. So the victory is so-so compared to the efforts expended.

                        Quote: Rider
                        try to give more compelling arguments

                        Well, she allowed the British to occupy Cyprus, and again your duck logic shows the comparison
                        Quote: Rider
                        the most democratic" state is in debt like silk,

                        )))) if the United States declares a default, as Turkey did, then you will try to refute my argument again.
                        Quote: Rider
                        on the contrary, (if you haven’t noticed, then I always say that the Turks were a strong opponent, who turned out to be too tough for some.

                        Well, you are always mistaken when you say this, but again I am flattered that you put the Ottoman Empire and the Zaporozhian Army on the same level.
                        Regarding the request for help, and you did not refuse the help of the Zaporzhian Army, you agreed to the conditions set, and when there was no longer a need for it, you treacherously betrayed it.
                      6. 0
                        16 September 2013 17: 30
                        --- and I want that in that historical period the Ottoman Empire was a force to be reckoned with. -----


                        in other periods they wiped their feet on it 7
                        so what?

                        ----long, while the British won from Turkey)----


                        yeah - on points, without capturing Turkish land, and without defeating the Turkish army.
                        just like they fought with the Germans in WW2, but when they clashed with the enemy alone, they received tinsel.
                        and also "winners"


                        --- even using the example that the Allies did not take Berlin in the Second World War, but in the RESULT, they received both occupation zones in Berlin and participated in the surrender ---


                        But didn’t you know that Russia redrawn the borders of the Balkans at will after the victory?
                        Google the Treaty of San Stefano.
                        By the way, there you will find out HOW and FOR WHAT the British received Cyprus, England simply saved Turkey from defeat. Cyprus received it in gratitude for this, and not at all as a result of the war with Turkey, as you are trying to convey out of your usual ignorance.
                        quote from the agreement "Turkey was obliged to pay 1,410 billion rubles in indemnity, of which 1,1 billion were repaid through territorial concessions - Ardahan, Kars, Batum, Bayazet in Asia; Dobruja, the island of the Danube Delta and Snake Island in Europe."
                        So that means Russia didn’t receive any dividends?
                        again you admitted your illiteracy.
                        I can give you other examples of wars, like the war with Japan where we didn’t actually get Japanese lands, do you think we didn’t win either?


                        and during a default, the guns stop firing? or are the sabers getting dull?
                        so look for more striking examples of Turkey's "weakness".
                        otherwise your statements are just a canard.

                        ---but again I’m flattered that you put the Ottoman Empire and the Zaporozhian Army on the same level---


                        Well, there's a direct analogy here,
                        if the tough Cossacks could not defeat weak Turkey, then either the Cossacks are not tough, or the Turks are not weak.

                        and regarding the annexation, read about the Russian/Polish war of 1654/67, there you will learn how our peoples fought TOGETHER against a common enemy.
                        THIS war will ruin you for the PEOPLE 7

                        Kars, did you even study history?
                      7. +1
                        16 September 2013 17: 56
                        Quote: Rider
                        the rest of the time they wiped their feet on it 7
                        so what?

                        In some you can say so. It’s strange that you such an expert didn’t know this.
                        Quote: Rider
                        yeah - on points, without capturing Turkish land, and without defeating the Turkish army

                        Well, if you didn’t defeat the Turkish army, you screwed it up. It wouldn’t have worked out on points either. But in fact, you won, while fighting on several more fronts.
                        Quote: Rider
                        just like they fought with the Germans in WW2, but when they clashed with the enemy alone, they received tinsel.
                        Well, according to your duck theory, the Germans also set foot on ORIGINALLY English territory only in the form of prisoners)))

                        Quote: Rider
                        and also "winners"
                        and not only them, also the French)))

                        Quote: Rider
                        But didn’t you know that Russia redrawn the borders of the Balkans at will after the victory?

                        Your wish - the Balkans would become part of the Russian Empire)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        , England simply saved Turkey from defeat. Cyprus received it in gratitude for this, and not at all as a result of the war with Turkey, as you are trying to convey out of your usual ignorance.
                        These you show that Turkey was a super-strong adversary)))) and unlike you, I’m a liar (telling with a clear eye that the Republic of Ingushetia did not lose after the Crimean territory, and then also returned what it did not lose peacefully))) I’m not trying The fact of the occupation of Cyprus by the British will remain a fact.
                      8. 0
                        16 September 2013 18: 04
                        Quote: Kars
                        the rest of the time they wiped their feet on it 7
                        so what?

                        In some you can say so. It’s strange that you such an expert didn’t know this.

                        what periods, who wiped it in more detail please.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, if you didn’t defeat the Turkish army, you turned it down. It didn’t work out on points either

                        please indicate the battles where the British defeated the Turks at Gallipoli.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well according to your duck theory

                        according to your "theory" you are talking nonsense.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Your wish - the Balkans would become part of the Russian Empire)))

                        when and who declared this, take the trouble to give examples
                        Quote: Kars
                        These show that Türkiye was a super-strong enemy)))

                        this shows WHY the British got Crete
                        and everything else is your established nonsense.

                        and please also explain WHAT Türkiye was weak.
                      9. +1
                        16 September 2013 18: 10
                        Quote: Rider
                        what periods, who wiped it in more detail please.

                        For example, during the Russian-Turkish War about which you write.
                        Quote: Rider
                        please indicate the battles where the British defeated the Turks at Gallipoli.
                        The British fought with the Turks only in Galipolli))) another pearl of yours?

                        Quote: Rider
                        according to your "theory" you are talking nonsense.

                        It’s understandable for you, they dunk you and you keep spitting it out. There are no facts, no evidence, and at the same time you’re lying, and I caught you with this.
                        Quote: Rider
                        when and who declared this, take the trouble to give examples

                        Why declare this? This is a natural desire of empires. And now you will say that even if such a possibility were possible, the Russian emperor would say - yes, I need those Balkans))
                        Quote: Rider
                        this shows WHY the British got Crete
                        And, probably because Turkey was a super-powerful state, it could pay off its debts to England?

                        Quote: Rider
                        and please also explain WHAT Türkiye was weak.

                        The economy, and the army is a continuation of the economy.
                      10. 0
                        16 September 2013 18: 23
                        Quote: Kars
                        For example, during the Russian-Turkish War about which you write.

                        I'm still waiting for justification and the answer is only blah blah blah
                        Quote: Kars
                        The British fought with the Turks only in Galipolli))) another pearl of yours?

                        and where else when with what account?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Why declare this? This is a natural desire of empires. And now you will say that even if such a possibility were possible, the Russian emperor would say - yes, I need those Balkans))

                        that is, you LIED AGAIN
                        Congratulations.
                        Quote: Kars
                        And, probably because Turkey was a super-powerful state, it could pay off its debts to England?

                        The economy, and the army is a continuation of the economy.

                        please provide the TIME of bankruptcy.
                        otherwise it will suddenly turn out that it was AFTER THE WAR
                        let's rummage through the documents

                        your whole “theory” is based only on the lack of finances 7
                        poor thing, how do you explain that Turkey was able to assemble an army of more than 200 for the war with Russia, if according to you there was NO MONEY 000
                      11. +1
                        16 September 2013 17: 56
                        Quote: Rider
                        does this mean Russia did not receive any dividends?
                        Did I say that? I continue to argue that the victory was not particularly significant, and nothing more, especially compared to the efforts made.

                        Quote: Rider
                        and during a default, the guns stop firing? or the sabers become dull

                        and what to buy these guns for? feed those who fire them. pay salaries? another proof that you and logic are in different universes.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, there's a direct analogy here,
                        if the tough Cossacks could not defeat weak Turkey, then either the Cossacks are not tough, or the Turks are not weak
                        You can’t even pull it off like a duck anymore. Even the tough ones can be overwhelmed with numbers. At the same time, at that historical moment, Turkey was on the rise, and the Republic of Ingushetia was giving in to it, so they had to accept the conditions of the Zaporzhian Army that they would fight the Turks.

                        Quote: Rider
                        and regarding the annexation, read about the Russian/Polish war of 1654/67, there you will learn how our peoples fought TOGETHER against a common enemy.
                        THIS war will ruin you for the PEOPLE 7

                        no, it won’t - the usual imperial showdowns, in the millstone of which Ukraine has fallen.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Kars, did you even study history?
                        Teaching does not mean understanding; it has long been clear that you don’t understand anything.
                      12. 0
                        16 September 2013 18: 15
                        Quote: Kars
                        Did I say that? I continue to say that the victory was not particularly significant,

                        you keep talking nonsense
                        without particularly bothering with arguments
                        Quote: Kars
                        another proof that you and logic are in different universes.


                        this is not proof, this is verbiage, and announce the time of default WHEN it was announced
                        come on, show off your knowledge for once
                        Quote: Kars
                        .Even the coolest ones can be overwhelmed with quantity.

                        “cool” people don’t ask for protection and don’t flirt with everyone
                        the excuse doesn't work
                        Quote: Kars
                        no, it won’t - the usual imperial showdowns, in the millstone of which Ukraine has fallen.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Kars, did you even study history?
                        Learning does not mean understanding


                        baby, for Ukraine Russia went to war with Poland, and subsequently with Sweden
                        to PROTECT those who asked to be taken under the wing.

                        and by the way, you were bleating something when they “threw” you.
                        so here's an article for you
                        Google it
                        ruin-history of Ukraine.
                        and there you WILL find out that the “brothers” were sick and began to betray those to whom they swore an oath ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE OATH
                        There was no mention of serfdom yet, and the Ukrainians defected to the Poles and Crimeans.
                        these are the “brothers” they are, and then they bleat “they cheated - they cheated”

                        learn history ignoramus
                      13. +1
                        16 September 2013 18: 20
                        Quote: Rider
                        and during a default, the guns stop firing? or the sabers become dull



                        Three things are needed for war: money, money, and again money

                        Erroneously attributed to Napoleon I (1769-1821), the theorist of military art Count Raimondo Montecuccoli (1608-1680), etc.
                        As the Italian author Ludovico Guicciardini reports in his essay “Leisure Hours” (1565), this is how Marshal Gian Jacopo Trivulzio (1448-1518) answered the question of Louis XII what preparations were needed to conquer the Duchy of Milan.
                      14. 0
                        16 September 2013 18: 28
                        Quote: Kars
                        Three things are needed for war: money, money, and again money


                        I asked for bankruptcy TIME and not quotes.
                        and there’s nothing else to say?
                        or are you studying the history of 2ruins2 in depth?

                        come on, get rid of illusions, I can give you a lot of things.
                        just ask.
                      15. +1
                        16 September 2013 18: 32
                        Quote: Rider
                        come on, get rid of illusions

                        It is you who live in illusions.
                        Quote: Rider
                        I can give you a lot of things.

                        why? if you read them and are talking nonsense? Do you still want to spread them? It’s better to give yourself some brains.
                      16. 0
                        16 September 2013 18: 38
                        Quote: Kars
                        why? if you read them and are talking nonsense?

                        and this is your answer?
                        WHAT DOES IT TOUCH THE EYES?
                        liar
                      17. +1
                        17 September 2013 11: 04
                        Quote: Rider
                        and this is your answer?

                        Yes, what else can I answer to your nonsense?
                        Quote: Rider
                        DO YOUR EYES REALLY STILL?

                        Caps? Hysterical?
                        Quote: Rider
                        liar

                        did you catch me doing it? I personally caught you.
                      18. +1
                        16 September 2013 18: 29
                        Quote: Rider
                        you keep talking nonsense

                        Well, don’t be so self-critic, it’s long been clear that you’re talking nonsense and nonsense, but you’re still lying))

                        Quote: Rider
                        this is not proof, this is verbiage, and announce the time of default WHEN it was announced

                        Well, here’s another proof of your inability to think. The announcement of a default is the final stage of the economic crisis. Although you probably think that before the announcement of the default, Turkey was swimming in money.
                        Quote: Rider
                        “cool” people don’t ask for protection and don’t flirt with everyone
                        the excuse doesn't work
                        who told you that)))even Chuck Norris needs help sometimes))

                        Quote: Rider
                        baby, for Ukraine Russia went to war with Poland, and subsequently with Sweden

                        Storyteller, before that everything was probably peaceful and quiet))) So suddenly the Cossacks decided to submit to the Moscow Tsar and that time he started a war for them (or rather for the territory)
                        Quote: Rider
                        how you were “thrown” by the Muscovites.

                        They threw it, they threw it. They ruined the Zaporozhye Sich, etc. They enslaved it.
                        Quote: Rider
                        learn history ignoramus
                        Why aren’t you teaching? At least you should get some brains somewhere, maybe it would help.
                      19. 0
                        16 September 2013 18: 37
                        Quote: Kars

                        Well, don’t be so self-critic, you’re nonsense and nonsense


                        and this is instead of evidence 7
                        very much
                        Quote: Kars
                        Declaration of default is the final stage of the economic crisis


                        I'm waiting for TIME and not chatting
                        Otherwise, how to fight, there is money, but how to pay, we’ve run out.
                        come on tell me the date
                        Quote: Kars
                        who told you that)))even Chuck Norris needs help sometimes))

                        Chuck Noris told you this?
                        poor thing you already have glitches
                        and write it down
                        The Cossacks turned out to be rather weak.
                        Quote: Kars
                        threw, threw

                        baby, TRAITORS DO NOT stand on ceremony.

                        find better excuses
                        and LEARN HISTORY
                      20. +1
                        17 September 2013 11: 08
                        Quote: Rider
                        very much

                        Statement of fact
                        Quote: Rider
                        I'm waiting for TIME and not chatting

                        don’t wait, but think.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Otherwise, how to fight, there is money, but how to pay, we’ve run out.

                        The fact of the matter is that there was no money for the war, we had to borrow, and still there wasn’t enough.

                        Quote: Rider
                        baby, TRAITORS DO NOT stand on ceremony.

                        Kaps))hysterical))and already traitors, but at least he admitted that he was scammed.
      2. +1
        15 September 2013 10: 15
        Russia returned the city of Kars with a fortress to the Ottomans, receiving in exchange Sevastopol, Balaklava and other Crimean cities seized from it.
        The Black Sea was declared neutral (that is, open to commercial and closed to military courts in peacetime), with the prohibition of Russia and the Ottoman Empire to have military fleets and arsenals there.
        Navigation along the Danube was declared free, for which the Russian borders were moved away from the river, and part of Russian Bessarabia with the mouth of the Danube was annexed to Moldova.
        Russia was deprived of the protectorate over Moldavia and Wallachia and the exclusive patronage of Russia over the Christian subjects of the Ottoman Empire, granted to it by the Kuchuk-Kainardzhiyskoy world 1774 year.
        Russia pledged not to erect fortifications on the Åland Islands.

        The war led to a breakdown of the financial system of the Russian Empire (Russia spent 800 million rubles on the war, Britain - 76 million pounds): to finance military expenses, the government had to resort to printing unsecured banknotes, which led to a decrease in their silver coverage from 45% in 1853 to 19% in 1858, that is, in fact, to more than a twofold depreciation of the ruble (see the reforms of E. F. Kankrin)[114][115].
        Russia was able to achieve a deficit-free state budget again in 1870, that is, 14 years after the end of the war[116]. It was possible to establish a stable exchange rate of the ruble to gold and restore its international conversion in 1897, during the Witte monetary reform.
        The war became the impetus for economic reforms and, subsequently, for the abolition of serfdom.
        The experience of the Crimean War partially formed the basis for the military reforms of the 1860s and 1870s in Russia (replacing the outdated 25-year military service, etc.).
        In 1871, Russia achieved the lifting of the ban on keeping the navy in the Black Sea under the London Convention. In 1878, Russia was able to return the lost territories under the Treaty of Berlin, signed within the framework of the Berlin Congress, which took place following the results of the Russian-Turkish War of 1877-1878.


        By the way, I caught you in a lie once again
        Quote: Rider
        and all political dividends, RI later returned thanks to the efforts of Chancellor Gorchakov ABSOLUTELY PEACE WAY.

        Quote: Rider
        however, who am I talking about logic to?
        Yes, you should be ashamed to write such a word as logic.
        1. 0
          15 September 2013 11: 45
          Quote: Kars
          Yes, you should be ashamed to write such a word as logic.


          soooo, and where are the GIANT TERRITORIAL LOSSES?
          ah Russia returned Kars to the Ottomans,
          Do you even understand WHAT you brought as evidence?
          Russia, having lost in Crimea, gave the Turk the SAME TURKISH CARS, which is located the hell out of nowhere (like Bukovina)
          What's wrong with geography again?
          He can’t read, he doesn’t know history, he’s bad at geography.

          here, talking about logic is really useless.
          1. +1
            15 September 2013 12: 08
            Quote: Rider
            soooo, and where are the GIANT TERRITORIAL LOSSES?

            I once wrote about GIANT territorial losses? It was you who lied that you didn’t give up an inch of land to your adversaries))))
            Quote: Rider
            ah Russia returned Kars to the Ottomans,
            Do you even understand WHAT you brought as evidence?
            Russia, having lost in Crimea, gave the Turk the SAME TURKISH CARS, which is located the hell out of nowhere (like Bukovina)
            What's wrong with geography again?
            He can’t read, he doesn’t know history, he’s bad at geography.

            Are you still waiting for you in the Kunstkamera? They gave you away)))

            Quote: Rider
            here, talking about logic is really useless.
            Naturally, you are basically incapable of it. Basically you lie and try to pass off your fantasies as something significant.
            1. +2
              15 September 2013 12: 16
              Quote: Kars
              I once wrote about GIANT territorial losses? It was you who lied that you didn’t give up an inch of land to your adversaries))))

              I once wrote that Russia WON the war?
              but actually they didn’t give it to you, and if you have a 2 in geography, and you can’t find Crimea on the map (where the main databases were kept) and CARS, then that’s your problem
              Quote: Kars
              Are you still waiting for you in the Kunstkamera? They gave you away)))


              WAS KARS RUSSIAN?
              What about Voronezh and Smolensk?

              This is a quirk of independent education.
              1. +1
                15 September 2013 12: 26
                Quote: Rider
                I once wrote that Russia WON the war?

                So does that mean you lost after all?
                Quote: Rider
                but actually they didn’t give it to you, and if you have a geographer

                do you deny the loss of territory owned/controlled by the Russian Empire at the time before the Crimean War?
                Quote: Rider
                WAS KARS RUSSIAN?
                if not, then how could they give it away? Did they give away the Chinese car in exchange for the liberation of Sevastopol?) 0cool deal))

                Quote: Rider
                and you can’t find Crimea on the map
                Maybe it’s easier to find a map where ALL RI was marked?)))
                1. 0
                  15 September 2013 12: 40
                  Quote: Kars
                  So does that mean you lost after all?

                  where did I write that I won?
                  Quote: Kars

                  do you deny the loss of territory owned/controlled by the Russian Empire at the time before the Crimean War?

                  do you deny Russia's victory in the Balkans?
                  and what they lost, they later returned.
                  Quote: Kars
                  if not, how could they give it away? they gave it away to the Chinese car

                  so we also fought with China there, this is a new word in history!
                  you definitely have everything in order with your head 7
                  and then doubts begin to creep in.
                  Quote: Kars
                  Quote: Rider
                  and you can’t find Crimea on the map
                  Maybe it’s easier to find a map where ALL RI was marked?)))

                  Well, if you find it difficult to distinguish Crimea from Turkey, then I advise you to find a map and buy glasses.
    2. +3
      15 September 2013 10: 05
      Quote: Rider
      protectorate of Ukraine, have you heard of this?

      Are you being stupid again? Are you living in the past?)))
      Quote: Rider
      and you translated it to Putin, and it turns out that you, the Germans and the GDP are the same

      I fully imagine that the GDP could be even worse, I don’t know his thoughts, and I can’t predict the future.
      Quote: Rider
      well, just over one of the strongest countries of that time.

      Who told you such nonsense?
      Quote: Rider
      This is the logic, so you will soon reach the point where you will declare the victory over Napoleon a trifle.

      Well, the victory was a coalition one, the war lasted for many years.
      Quote: Rider
      that is, you don’t even intend to study 7
      strange.

      It’s not you who really escaped from the kundskamera))) but I really don’t know what history is being taught at school NOW)) and you are studying textbooks for the 6th grade? Under the editorship of the Russian Federation)) it’s clear.
      Quote: Rider
      you FOCUSED attention on DEFEATS and left the overall result out of brackets

      So you admit that I didn’t write that France won)))
      Quote: Rider
      Well, and also, don’t you know that France ALSO was NOT ALONE in attacking Russia?

      I know that the wars were not people’s wars then.
      Quote: Rider
      well, why, this is from the experience of Square, first asks to be taken under the wing, then whines about occupation.
      there is complete independence from logic.

      Well, if you were deceived, what can you do? But by the way, it’s not for you to talk about logic))
      1. +2
        15 September 2013 11: 39
        Quote: Kars
        are you living in the past?)))
        Quote: Rider
        and you translated it to Putin, and it turns out that you, the Germans and the GDP are the same

        I fully imagine that GDP could be even worse,

        The TERRIBLE KAA intimidated Kars more than the German occupation and extermination of the people.
        and by the way, based on the past, does that mean the Second World War no longer counts?
        So you recognize one war, but not the other?
        I’m no longer asking you to include logic, but to be (at least) consistent.
        and then you have it again I remember here, I don't remember here
        Quote: Kars
        It’s not you who really escaped from the kundskamera))) but I really don’t know what they teach NOW

        Yes, you not only don’t know the “current” school curriculum, you didn’t study the old one well, as well as geography
        (we will modestly remain silent about logic and consistency)
        Quote: Kars
        well, just over one of the strongest countries of that time.

        Who told you such nonsense?
        Quote: Rider
        This is the logic, so you will soon reach the point where you will declare the victory over Napoleon a trifle.

        Well, the victory was a coalition one, the war lasted for many years.

        SOOO,
        that means Turkey is a piece of garbage that shouldn’t be bothered with, then maybe explain why the Austrians and Romanians couldn’t stop the Ottoman advance into Europe for so long, because it’s such a trifle, well, just think Turkey is just another Georgia
        and the British (later in WW1) fled from Gallipoli
        how can this be?1 after all, this is just “small” Türkiye
        It looks like you were the one who escaped from the Kuntskamera.
        and in France, you probably don’t know that HALF of the troops that invaded Russia were Bonaparte’s allies? Germans, Austrians, Poles, not to mention the Italians.
        Something about your approach to history is one-sided (that’s how you were taught - I understand)
        This means that you highlight Russia’s defeats in every possible way, but try to keep silent about victories.
        Well, just think, they kicked the Turks out of the Balkans, and they cleaned up the scorched dirt, after all, these are such little things
        Quote: Kars
        I know that the wars were not people’s wars then.

        Oh really ?
        Well, the people were not flattered by the promise of freedom from the French, well, what can you do, and began to slaughter the invaders, all this (in your opinion) is not a people’s war.
        Clearly another example of “alternative” logic.
        which is really pointless to talk to you about.
        1. +2
          15 September 2013 12: 17
          Quote: Rider
          The TERRIBLE KAA intimidated Kars more than the German occupation and extermination of the people.

          Who is KAA?
          Quote: Rider
          and by the way, based on the past, does that mean the Second World War no longer counts?

          What does it count?
          Quote: Rider
          otherwise I remember here again, I don’t remember here

          where is this? you provide quotes, don’t be an unfounded liar.
          Quote: Rider
          Yes, you not only don’t know the “current” school curriculum, you didn’t study the old one well, as well as geography
          can you prove it? You didn’t catch me lying like I did you.

          Quote: Rider
          that means Turkey is a piece of garbage that is not worth bothering with, then maybe you can explain why the Austrians and Romanians could not stop the Ottoman advance into Europe for so long,

          In what years? Do you know that empires go through different degrees of power along their historical path?
          Quote: Rider
          and the British (later in WW1) fled from Gallipoli
          how can this be?1 after all, this is just “small” Türkiye

          Well, the Anglo-French fought not only with Turkey. And the Galipoli episode only showed the great arrogance of the British, nothing more.
          Quote: Rider
          and in France, you probably don’t know that HALF of the troops that invaded Russia were Bonaparte’s allies? Germans, Austrians, Poles, not to mention the Italians.
          what?
          Quote: Rider
          This means that you highlight Russia’s defeats in every possible way, but try to keep silent about victories

          and you, on the contrary)) inflate small victories, and try to smooth out defeats))
          Quote: Rider
          Oh really ?
          well, the people were not flattered by the promise of freedom from the French, well, what can you do, and began to slaughter the invaders, all this (in your opinion) is not a people’s war

          And they promised him something to the people)) and cut them. So they cut everything a little at a time, but somehow it doesn’t look like a native one. How were the people’s militia divisions there? Did they defend the cities? Or limited themselves to attacks on foragers, defending their PERSONAL food)))
          Quote: Rider
          which is really pointless to talk to you about.

          But you stubbornly try to speak, and you embarrass yourself more and more.
          1. +2
            15 September 2013 13: 01
            Quote: Kars
            Who is KAA?

            GDP - which is worse for you than the German occupation.
            Quote: Kars
            Quote: Rider
            and by the way, based on the past, does that mean the Second World War no longer counts?

            What does it count?

            Do you consider it a people’s war, or will you again look for excuses?
            Quote: Kars
            Quote: Rider
            otherwise I remember here again, I don’t remember here

            where is this?

            Yes, almost everywhere, then you have one war that counts, the other doesn’t, your Turkey is such a weakling that it could have been defeated with one shelban.
            in every sentence you twist and twist the words.
            Quote: Kars
            Well, the Anglo-French fought not only with Turkey. And the Galipoli episode only showed the great arrogance of the British, nothing more.

            well, exactly. if the facts do not fit into the theory, so much the worse for the facts.
            and by the way (for your education) Türkiye ALSO fought not only with the British.
            and also with RI in Kakkaz.
            Quote: Kars
            what?
            Quote: Rider
            This means that you highlight Russia’s defeats in every possible way, but try to keep silent about victories

            and you, on the contrary)) inflate small victories, and try to smooth out defeats))
            "small" victories?!
            Well, you’re definitely not good with geography.
            calling the Balkans small is what a stupid...uh, strategist you have to be.
            and in France, you highlight the anti-French coalition and silence the anti-Russian one
            or don't know?
            You didn’t even learn this at school?

            Quote: Kars

            And they promised him something to the people)


            so you don’t know that either?
            Well, I’ll continue your education, Napoleon declared his will to all serfs, and the people instead rose up against foreign invaders. For a more in-depth knowledge of history, I advise you to read books or just type in the search - the Patriotic War of 1812, the People's War.
            Well, let’s skip the insults, because reading your “conclusions” I can’t help but laugh.
            don’t get lost, I’ll be happy to spend the day on your education, and it’s fun to kick you in your own mistakes
            1. +2
              15 September 2013 13: 12
              Quote: Rider
              GDP - which is worse for you than the German occupation.

              A)) well, the German occupation is already in the PAST, but what is on the mind of the Emperor of All Rus', Vova the First, is not clear.

              Quote: Rider
              Do you consider it a people’s war, or will you again look for excuses?

              It’s quite possible to mistake it for the people’s, but it doesn’t make it any easier for you, I haven’t heard about the intentions of the GDP to build communism. And with the enormous influence of the Communist Party and Lend-Lease.
              Quote: Rider
              Yes, almost everywhere, then you have one war that counts, the other doesn’t count, Turkey is such a weakling that it could have been defeated with one shelban

              Yes, but I remember all these maments, and you couldn’t refute me, there was the dawn of the Ottoman Empire, there was the decline, there was a Systemic defeat in the Crimean War, and there was an ordinary event in the Russian/Turkish War of the 70s
              Quote: Rider
              well, exactly. if the facts do not fit into the theory, so much the worse for the facts.
              Well, this is your position, but you cannot erase it from history - that Galipoli was a peripheral operation.

              Quote: Rider
              and in France, you highlight the anti-French coalition and silence the anti-Russian one

              Which anti-Russian coalition am I keeping silent about?
              Quote: Rider
              call the Balkans small,
              They really are not very large, and at the same time, the Republic of Ingushetia did not receive territory there into its possession.

              Quote: Rider
              Well, I’ll continue your education, Napoleon declared his will to all serfs,

              and they all found out about it immediately - from the newspapers - probably all of them were literate, from the radio - oh, there was no radio then.
              Quote: Rider
              Well, let’s skip the insults, because reading your “conclusions” I can’t help but laugh

              Don’t hold back, maybe he’ll let you in.
              Quote: Rider
              , and it’s fun to kick you in your own mistakes
              Who would say)) they haven’t kicked you anywhere yet, but only showed that you are not familiar with logic, and you can’t even think.
              1. 0
                15 September 2013 14: 14
                Quote: Kars
                A)) well, the German occupation is already in the PAST

                So at least you recognize this war as a people’s war?
                or will you start wobbling again?
                Quote: Kars
                there was a systemic defeat in the Crimean War, and there was an ordinary event in the Russian/Turkish war of the 70s

                This is what I understand as a twist of consciousness, you didn’t study in America by any chance 7
                They now also believe that they were the only ones who conquered the Reich, and that the USSR got in the way.
                Quote: Kars
                but you cannot erase from history that Galipoli was a peripheral operation.

                Yes, you can’t throw it out of history that the Anglicans broke their teeth on frail Turkey, I advise you to think before making arguments.
                Quote: Kars
                Which anti-Russian coalition am I keeping silent about?
                Quote: Rider
                call the Balkans small,
                They really are not very large, and at the same time, the Republic of Ingushetia did not receive territory there into its possession.

                I did say that together with the French, troops from Austria, Prussia and the Poles invaded Russia? or you are reading selectively.
                Well, regarding the Balkans, you seem to think that the acquired lands (what you provided a link to) are not enough?
                that again it was necessary to conquer the whole ball so that you would recognize VICTORY of Russia?
                poor car, he doesn’t even know how to dodge it anymore. And so victory doesn’t suit him, and it doesn’t count that way
                Quote: Kars
                and they all found out about it immediately

                Actually, where the French were passing, they found out, and it was there that they raised the French on pitchforks, and in total up to 400 people took part in the people’s militia.
                but you don’t know this either, and therefore it is not kosher for you to consider this war a PEOPLE’s war.
                pichalka.
                Quote: Kars
                and you can’t even think.

                and this is said by Mr. Dunno, who has to be constantly taught.
                1. +1
                  15 September 2013 15: 21
                  Quote: Rider
                  So at least you recognize this war as a people’s war?

                  Well, we must take into account the influence of the Communist Party.
                  Quote: Rider
                  This is what I understand as a twist of consciousness, you didn’t study in America by any chance 7

                  Well, the systemic defeat in the Crimean War is a well-known fact, which also showed the weakness of the armed forces of the Russian Empire,
                  Quote: Rider
                  Yes, you can’t throw it out of history that the Anglicans broke their teeth on frail Turkey, I advise you to think before making arguments.

                  You can’t throw it away, but the fact is that Turkey still lost WWI, and Galipoli was nothing more than an EPISODE.
                  Quote: Rider
                  I did say that together with the French, troops from Austria, Prussia and the Poles invaded Russia?

                  Why did you say that?
                  Quote: Rider
                  Well, regarding the Balkans, you seem to think that the acquired lands (what you provided a link to) are not enough?

                  Not enough
                  Quote: Rider
                  that again it was necessary to conquer the whole ball so that you would recognize VICTORY of Russia?

                  At least the Straits, otherwise the victory will be short-lived.
                  Quote: Rider
                  Actually, where the French were passing, they found out, and it was there that they raised the French on pitchforks, and in total up to 400 people took part in the people’s militia
                  And a link? To 400 people, in what formations they were formed, in what hostilities and battles they took part.

                  Quote: Rider
                  and this is said by Mr. Dunno, who has to be constantly taught.
                  You flatter yourself.
                  1. 0
                    15 September 2013 16: 04
                    Quote: Kars
                    Well, we must take into account the influence of the Communist Party.

                    and the war of 1812 was also ruled by the Communist Party, or maybe the Russian-Polish war of 1654-67
                    which began over Ukraine was also approved by the Bolsheviks?
                    poor Kars
                    Quote: Kars
                    Well, the systemic defeat in the Crimean War is a well-known fact,

                    just like the victory in 77/78 is a known fact
                    which you stubbornly deny
                    yeah, alternative thinking is not a pound of raisins.
                    Quote: Kars
                    I did say that together with the French, troops from Austria, Prussia and the Poles invaded Russia?

                    Why did you say that?


                    and then that you didn’t know this, and asked about the “anti-Russian coalition”, well, they taught you that way - I understand.
                    even now you refuse to read
                    Quote: Kars
                    Not enough

                    At least the Straits, otherwise the victory will be short-lived.


                    Well, the Americans would have occupied Berlin, otherwise the victory was somehow insufficient.
                    Well, everything’s not going well for you, thank God.
                    Quote: Kars
                    And a link? To 400 people, in what formations they were formed, in what hostilities and battles they took part.

                    well, the person definitely doesn’t want to study
                    enter into the search - Patriotic War of 1812 - People's War - formation of militia
                    and you will be happy.
                    maybe at least I’ll force you to study
                    Quote: Kars
                    Quote: Rider
                    and this is said by Mr. Dunno, who has to be constantly taught.
                    You flatter yourself.

                    WHAT AM I DOING NOW?
                    you are really ignorant, maybe my instructions will help you

                    (not sure though)
                2. 0
                  16 September 2013 18: 57
                  Rider and Kars is the “favorite” troll on this forum?
                  1. 0
                    16 September 2013 19: 02
                    Quote: O_RUS
                    Rider and Kars is the “favorite” troll on this forum?


                    To be honest, I don’t understand which of us you called a “troll”; if it’s me, well, let it be your way.
                    if it is, then this is not entirely true.
                    because (mostly) he is a sane interlocutor, but in everything that concerns Nenka, he is glitchy and at times very much.
                    so sometimes you have to treat it.
                    1. 0
                      16 September 2013 22: 55
                      This is not the only forum you visit. Or was I wrong?

                      Quote: Rider
                      because (mostly) he is a sane interlocutor

                      I do not argue

                      Quote: Rider
                      It's buggy and at times very buggy.


                      troll habits

                      Quote: Rider
                      so sometimes you have to treat it.
  66. Sashko07
    +5
    15 September 2013 01: 17
    Well, let’s say Ukraine appeared on everyone’s lips at the end of the 19th century, then when did the people who live on the territory of present-day Ukraine get their own language, which is clearly more than one century old? laughing , am I already silent about purely Ukrainian culture, etc., etc.? If there is a people with their own separate culture and language, then they have their own nationality - Ukrainians, it’s just like twice two)))

    And once again I will modestly remain silent about the fact that when Kyiv and the city of Chernigov traded with half the world and adopted Christianity, in place of Moscow there was a swamp and frogs were croaking soldier
    1. Centaurus
      +2
      15 September 2013 02: 45
      There are no words. I won’t give any arguments here now, or try to convince you, I’ll just note a few points:
      1. How old do you think the Ukrainian language is?
      2.When did Ukrainian culture emerge?
      3. The most trading city, for that matter, was Veliky Novgorod, and it existed before Kyiv. Rostov has also been somewhere in these years, and it’s not a small city. Kyiv was the capital, this is true, but considering the collapse of Rus' and the division of principalities... The word capital is losing its significant meaning.
      So there is no need to measure sizes here. Moreover, if we look at the map of the original Russian lands, most of them fall on the territory of modern Russia.
      And the territory of Soviet Ukraine from Crimea, all the way to the borders of Kyiv, is covered by the steppe of warriors. So 4 is not necessary here...

      “When Kyiv and the city of Chernigov traded with half the world and adopted Christianity, in the place of Moscow there was a swamp and frogs were croaking” Are you saying? )))
      Well then, trace the history of Russia and the history of the so-called. Ukraine, say, after the Standing on the Ugra.
      I could never understand why there are people in Ukraine who hate Russia.
      B... We were actually given Crimea, Donbass, Kharkov, Galina and many more. In the ancestral territories of Ukraine, you can probably only visit those places where the Cossacks feasted, these are perhaps the only ones who make me proud of Ukraine (or rather, the Outskirts of Rus'). And then, the people were inveterate and traded in outright robbery. They robbed and burned not only Poles and Turks, but in general everyone they came across. So, I’m not surprised by Catherine’s decision either. there is no need for rage and righteous anger, I am not a Ukrainophobe, and I really love my city, my country, no matter what it is, I just wish the original Slavic and fraternal countries were together. This is damn right!
      In Italy, for example, Florence, Venice, Corsica, Tuscany, Milan and others fought among themselves all their lives and THEN LIVE TOGETHER IN THE ONE COUNTRY! Am I talking about the Chinese who also divided up the land for everyone? And we have to keep quiet about the feudal wars in Japan.
      When the Romans left Britain, in place of only England there were several dozen miniature kingdoms that terribly hated each other. Well?!
      And 4 we are worse than our Slavic brothers... Okay, Okay, it would be stupid and incorrect to say that not only the Slavs, but only Slavs live on the territory of Russia and Ukraine)
      So, gentlemen, we have much more in common between the above-listed cities and countries. And therefore we need to at least live together until we unite again!
  67. Asan Ata
    +2
    15 September 2013 01: 19
    Personally, for me, it doesn’t matter what the relations between Ukrainians and Russians are, they can be settled, it is important that homosexuality does not penetrate the country. Therefore, I see the only path - the path with Russia.
    1. So_o_tozh
      +3
      15 September 2013 02: 19
      But I don’t understand why scattered people started crying over Ukraine; they just can’t understand why the “Little Russians” point-blank consider themselves Ukrainians; they’re such idiots. We shouldn’t be forced to choose whether to join the EU or the CU, we will live and calmly figure out who is our friend and who is our fart.
    2. Darakht
      -1
      15 September 2013 09: 59
      Quote: Asan Ata
      It is important that homosexuality does not penetrate the country. Therefore, I see the only path - the path with Russia.

      How can one not remember Freud’s grandfather? laughing
  68. Centaurus
    0
    15 September 2013 02: 17
    The author of the article was not surprised, but I had already seen something similar in one program not on YouTube.
    And I started thinking about the artificiality of creating Ukraine back in school, because I was very bothered by the question of why in our state. language, some words are openly taken from Polish, if history shows that they are our blood and cruel enemies.
    and okay, only there would be similarities with Polish, why, pray tell, in the Ukrainian language the words “Holicopter” and “Kolir” are so similar to Helicopter and Colour?4_o?????
    I also remember, I’m very offended ;) it was when in childhood my cousin and I (she now lives in Moscow) argued about the superiority of our countries, and it turned out that Russia has a history, but for us it is limited to the Zaporozhye region, the UPR, and after collapse of the USSR. Somehow it doesn't fit...
    1. Corneli
      +1
      15 September 2013 13: 33
      Quote: Centaur
      and okay, only there would be similarities with Polish, why, pray tell, in the Ukrainian language the words “Holicopter” and “Kolir” are so similar to Helicopter and Colour?4_o?????

      Well, with “helicopter” you took a bad example, by the way, “helicopter” and “guintocryl”) And in general, bothering with the origin of words is not a good idea. If it becomes easier for you, you can remember the Russian language:...
      Words from Greek (school, bed, ship, sail), Latin (exam, student, excursion), English (sports, football, tram), German (master, assault), French (suit, broth, compote).
      Actually, about 10% of words in Russian are of foreign origin. And nothing...
      The same can be said about “artificiality”, if a large territory of Ukraine belonged to the Poles for centuries, then do you think the “fusion” of languages ​​did not happen there? Zapadensky version is Ukrainian. listen to the language, there are generally so many Polish, Romanian, Czech words that you can’t even hear Ukrainian)
      1. berimor
        +2
        15 September 2013 17: 01
        You're not entirely right. In the Russian language, approximately more than 50% of words are borrowed from other languages. I once studied such subjects as “Modern Russian Language” and “Linguistics,” so I ask you to turn to these sources for clarity. Everything is clearly and clearly written there!
    2. berimor
      +3
      15 September 2013 16: 46
      And you look (or find out from a competent philologist) what the vocabulary and percentage of borrowed words in the Russian language are! If you don’t know the topic, don’t get involved in a dispute about the language!
      I’m Russian, but really, I’m so tired of these squabbles over Ukraine! Today Ukraine is a given and it’s good to argue about it! After everything that the Russian leadership is doing in relation to Ukraine, I and many of my friends and acquaintances (by the way, Russians) are very confused about the marriage contract with Russia (to our regret, but in many ways the Russians themselves are pushing us away from themselves with their great power chauvinism).
      1. 0
        15 September 2013 18: 19
        How did the “creations” of our leadership personally affect you?
        Has your life become worse? Eat or have trouble sleeping?
  69. Zeev
    +3
    15 September 2013 09: 39
    Ukraine was invented by Pushkin. It was he who wrote "

    But enviable grooms
    Ukraine and Russia send her;

    Ukraine was deafly worried.

    But an independent power
    It’s time for Ukraine to be:

    Quiet Ukrainian night.
    Transparent sky. Stars shine.
    And so on ...
  70. +2
    15 September 2013 09: 51
    We must treat Bismarck with great respect, bearing in mind his deeply patriotic and zealous attitude towards his native people and his absolutely swinish and consumerist attitude towards everyone else. This is patriotic nationalism, in which we, the Russian people, are constantly denounced by our enemies and envious people with all sorts of bad words!
    I would be glad if Bismarck or a similar type ruled my country, but without such a frisky policy of conquest as the Prussians...
    The article is valuable and very useful for everyone to read and take into account!
  71. Sashko07
    +1
    15 September 2013 10: 50
    Quote: Centaur
    I could never understand why there are people in Ukraine who hate Russia.

    Who among the Russians in Ukraine hates you? No one hates you, they have been throwing a veil in your eyes for years and you believe everything like sheep, go to Ukraine, find at least one person who would fiercely hate Russia, but you won’t find such people even in Transcarpathia, watch and listen to your corrupt media more and that’s not what they’ll tell you.
    And regarding Ukrainian culture and language, if I were you, I would remain silent, because if you dig deeper, it may well turn out that all Russian culture and the same language came from the peoples living in the territory of present-day Ukraine.

    But what kills me more in articles like this is the complete degradation of the authors, there was no France, there was a people who made it, there were no Chinese, but there was a people who in ancient centuries made this China, the same applies to Ukraine.
    1. -1
      16 September 2013 18: 34
      Quote: Sashko07
      And about Ukrainian culture and language


      Is the Ukrainian language still “alive”?

      but they said 20 years of Independence have finished the Ukrainian language, what remains is a mixture of distorted Russian and Ukrainian languages
  72. +1
    15 September 2013 14: 37
    Separatism, including Ukrainian, was the specialization of the intelligence of the “patchwork empire” - Austria-Hungary, which was unable to ensure its own stability and crumbled into small countries.
  73. Darakht
    +2
    15 September 2013 14: 48
    While they are proving to us that our country does not exist, our people do not exist, one interesting piece of news has come:

    Alexander Matveychuk from Odessa became the winner among men at the Moscow Marathon. He ran 42 kilometers 195 meters in 2 hours 19 minutes and 36 seconds. Interfax reported this on September 15.

    Two other Ukrainians, Igor Geletiy and Sergey Marchuk, took second and third place, about two seconds behind the winner, RIA Novosti clarifies. Ukrainian Matveychuk won the Moscow marathon also in 2011 and 2010.

    Among women, the winner was Irina Smolnikova from Karaganda (Kazakhstan). Her time was 2 hours 44 minutes and 54 seconds. Russian athletes Tatyana Belkina and Nagina Khaitova took second and third places.

    This year, the winners of the marathon will receive 350 thousand rubles. Second place receives 200 thousand rubles, third place receives 100 thousand rubles.

    In total, more than seven thousand people took part in the marathon. Anyone over 18 years of age who received permission from a doctor was allowed to participate in the race.

    The marathon route passed through the central streets of Moscow. During the race, traffic on them was limited.
    So here it is: Ukrainians took all the prizes. With which I congratulate the winners, and, of course, all of us.
  74. +2
    15 September 2013 14: 55
    Ukraine would run headlong into any alliance with Russia, provided that it is the main one in this alliance and owes them money!
    1. +1
      15 September 2013 15: 04
      Quote: uizik
      with Russia, on the condition that it is the main one in this alliance and owes them keruvats!

      no question - I even agree to the restoration of the Russian empire on the condition that I will be the emperor.)))
  75. -3
    15 September 2013 14: 57
    And the Ukrainian language is newspeak, created by the Austrians
    It is based on colloquial Yiddish, which they like to call Mova.
    Actively promoted by Kulish with the noble goal of teaching literacy to the rural population
    Hence the simple principle: as I hear, so I write.
    I wonder what the Russian language would have degenerated into if the Bolsheviks had used this technique.
    Or they could have laid Fenya as the basis of a new language, but they didn’t. Exact sciences also need to be taught.
    1. Darakht
      0
      15 September 2013 15: 03
      You yourself believe in the nonsense that you wrote. Or did Bismarck also say this? lol
      1. Corneli
        +1
        15 September 2013 22: 00
        Quote: ignoto
        And the Ukrainian language is newspeak, created by the Austrians
        It is based on colloquial Yiddish, which they like to call Mova.

        Quote: Daraht
        You yourself believe in the nonsense that you wrote. Or did Bismarck also say this? lol

        I think everything is simpler, the author simply doesn’t like Germans and Jews, and has little idea what this guy sounds like). Therefore, I am ready to believe any blizzard concocted by “modern researchers” on this topic. Well, or he, like the ancient Greco-Roman, does not understand any language other than his native one, and everyone else who does not speak Russian says “var-var-var”...
    2. Darakht
      +4
      15 September 2013 16: 04
      Quote: ignoto
      And the Ukrainian language is newspeak, created by the Austrians

      The basis of the vocabulary is made up of words of common Slavic origin, but there are many words formed in the Ukrainian language during the period of its independent historical development, there are borrowings from Polish, German and other languages.

      The most ancient monuments of the literary language are represented by letters from the 14th century. Having inherited Old Russian writing, the Ukrainian language in the 14th-15th centuries. developed the traditions of the literary language of Kievan Rus, although he was strongly influenced by local dialects. From the end of the 15th century. The first attempts are made to bring the book language closer to Ukrainian living speech in the 16th century. translations of church books into Ukrainian appear (“Peresopnytsia Gospel”, 1556-61; “Krekhovsky Apostle”, 1560). Two types of literary language emerge - “prosta mova” and “Slavic Russian language”.
      Great Soviet Encyclopedia.
      Can you tell me in what century from the Nativity of Christ the Austrians came up with the language? wink
  76. +1
    15 September 2013 18: 30
    Quote: neither the “moderate” Russophobe Taras Shevchenko, nor the “terry” Lesya Ukrainka have such terms as “Ukrainian”, “Ukrainian nation”, but there are Slavs, Little Russians, Rusyns
    I would like to object to the author regarding the name of the country. Wikipedia provides the following data: Word Ukraine existed since the times of the Old Russian state - at least since the 1187th century. It was first mentioned in the Ipatiev Chronicle of XNUMX in connection with the death of Prince Vladimir Glebovich in the Pereyaslav region, later in chronicles of 1189 and 1213. EThese mentions referred to the outlying territories of the Pereyaslavl, Galician and Volyn principalities. And further: As reported in the Brockhaus and Efron dictionary, after at the end of the 13th century Southern Rus', as part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, entered the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, part of its territory stretching from Podolia in the west to the mouth of the Dnieper (“Ochakiv field”) in the south and including which included most of the lands of the future Ekaterinoslav province in the east, began to be unofficially called “Ukraine” in this state[XNUMX].
  77. +1
    15 September 2013 18: 32
    The name of the country is given by the people living in it, and not some bloke! What is artificial is not short-lived!
  78. jury08
    +2
    15 September 2013 18: 47
    It is with such great-power speculations and articles that you alienate Ukraine from yourself! Ukraine is an independent state and has the right to choose its own path! No one has the right to interfere!
  79. D_L
    D_L
    0
    15 September 2013 19: 02
    It was a good post. Like a shot - neither increase nor decrease!
  80. 0
    15 September 2013 20: 23
    The main thing is not to minimize or exaggerate the danger from Ukraine and Ukrainians. The film “The Feat of a Scout” always comes to mind, where a traitor in the service of the Germans says that he is a “Ukrainian”, and “Moscow has its own songs, and he has his own,” and then betrays underground fighters against German fascism to death. The scoundrel gets his well-deserved retribution! It always seemed to me that Russia and Ukraine, as states, could exist well following the example of, for example, Canada and the USA. But, as the article shows, this will be possible only when Germany is completely controlled by common sense, and its people are freed from revanchist sentiments. I hope that this will finally happen in the future.
  81. Taz
    Taz
    -2
    16 September 2013 17: 54
    The article is nonsense. How could they create an artificial Ukrainian language at the suggestion of Bismarck, if this very language existed when Otto von Bismarck himself was not yet in the project. This fact alone speaks to the flawed nature of this article. And reading the comments of Ukrainian-phobes, I actually cried. Wasted my time.
  82. +1
    17 September 2013 16: 25
    Ukraine is an artificial political entity
    1. Beowulf
      0
      April 29 2014 15: 46
      Of course, hitting the keys is not using your brain.
      Is the Russian Federation a natural “formation”? :)
      Hmmm... The Russian land has become impoverished in intelligence...
  83. +1
    17 September 2013 19: 11
    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." George Orwell. "1984"
  84. EXA-2
    0
    19 September 2013 12: 17
    What is the argument about?
    According to the latest scientific research, we all come from Africa. Let's live together brothers.
  85. TAHKIST
    0
    25 September 2013 18: 21
    Ukraine is our brothers, and freedom of choice is on their conscience, although we (Belarus, Russia, Ukraine) are one divided people, and our countries are Rus', bickering with the politicians, history will put everything in its place
  86. 0
    5 October 2013 21: 40
    The English colonialists have a saying: “Divide and conquer”! It will be a great pity if the people of Ukraine are sacrificed to please the ambitions of the Ukrainian government and its oligarchs! How then to go to visit relatives living in Ukraine?
  87. Beowulf
    0
    April 29 2014 15: 44
    The article is a complete LIE! From the first to the last word!
    All quotes are lies!
    Author - isn’t it a shame to lie so blatantly?
  88. 0
    3 September 2014 00: 17
    The Germans created Ukraine, the Germans made a revolution...
  89. 0
    26 August 2015 18: 14
    what nonsense, the author of the article is some kind of dreamer, let him give a link to the document from where he got such a translation, nonsense about Ukraine is such heresy... it’s just disgusting to read such nonsense
  90. 0
    13 January 2018 03: 51
    a fake "quote" from Bismarck, and the "Dulles plan" - an even dumber fake was dragged in :)))))
    Whoever wrote this crazy article with non-existent quotes from Bismarck apparently set out to make a roll call of idiots
    1. 0
      13 January 2018 04: 10
      Quote: balian
      Whoever wrote this crazy article with non-existent quotes from Bismarck apparently set out to make a roll call of idiots

      Congratulations, you have become one of them....