Military Review

Instead of history - jokes about the past. For 39% of Russians, even the phrase “Battle of Kulikovo” says nothing

78

In the past two years, our country has increasingly begun to talk about studying stories. Last year was declared the Year of History. This year, the preparation of a single history textbook for secondary schools has begun. And soon a discussion was launched in print and on the Internet in connection with the publication of preparatory materials for this textbook. During the discussions, it was repeatedly said about the low level of knowledge of history in our country. From personal experience, including teaching, I could see this more than once.


Do we have a story?

“In essence, this is Pyrrhic victory,” I say to the students, and immediately ask them: “Who is Pierre?” In response, silence. “What is the fifth column? Again silence in the audience. "When did the Reichstag burn out?" The last question is decided to answer the head of the course: "The arson of the Reichstag occurred when our troops took Berlin." The answer is complemented by a student, reporting that Hitler was hiding in the basement of the burning Reichstag, who at the last moment managed to escape to Argentina, "but his secretary committed suicide." On the events of 1933, humanities students obviously did not hear. It is clear that my students are not aware of some important signs of the past, which have long become common nouns and are used to characterize contemporary events.

I decide that students have a bad letter “P”, and therefore I try to ask questions about objects starting with other letters: “You are Muscovites, and therefore you know Miklukho-Maklaya Street and Michurinsky Avenue. Who were Michurin and Miklukho-Maclay? ". I see before me only bewildered faces. The fact that the names of many Russian scientists are unknown to today's youth, I already knew from a survey conducted among high school students of one of the regions of Russia. They were able to name two dozen brands of cars and about a dozen "brands" of chewing gum, but they remembered only two domestic scientists - Lomonosov and Mendeleev.

Poor knowledge of history is discovered not only by representatives of the younger generation. Three years ago, in Russia, VTsIOM conducted a survey, during which knowledge of the history of the country's population of all age groups was tested. It turned out that only 8% of respondents were able to correctly answer 11 class questions from the 2 class program. Only 4% were able to correctly answer 7 questions. Only 8% gave the correct answers to 6 questions. And this is despite the fact that there are many people in the country who are deeply interested in history.

The fact that even the most significant events in the history of our country are not known to many people, my husband was convinced when she told her acquaintance that she would soon go to Kulikovo Field. Upon hearing this, her friend laughed. The word "Kulikovo" seemed very funny to her. It turned out that this already elderly woman, who belongs to a prosperous stratum of the population and is fond of writing icons, has never heard of the field where the great battle took place. Alas, she is not alone. A survey conducted last year showed that the phrase "Battle of Kulikovo" says nothing to 39% of Russians. Among the rest of the respondents, only a few could exactly name the time of this battle. However, some believed that it happened not in the XIX, not in the XX century.

This year, on the eve of 22 June, polls were conducted on the streets of Moscow, during which many young men and women said that this date says nothing to them.

It is obvious that people who do not know anything about the Kulikov battle and 22 of June have very vague ideas about national history. Such people are easy to convince of the most fantastic speculations about the Mongol yoke and the attack of Hitler Germany on our country.

The main Chinese secret

Hero of the play A.S. Griboyedov "Woe from Wit", Chatsky wished "from the Chinese ... a few to occupy the wise from them of the ignorance of foreigners." However, the troublemaker of Moscow society could also draw attention to another useful experience of the Chinese people: the Chinese have a thorough knowledge of their country's past.

The observance of ancient customs, knowledge of legends, and the cult of ancestors that developed in traditional Chinese society contributed to the creation in the 5th century BC. Confucius learning system, in which an important place was taken by the study of history. Historical records of long-standing events in the "Book of History" ("Shin Ching"), "Book of Songs" ("Shu Ching") and other sources have been studied for thousands of years in schools.

Subsequently, in China it became considered mandatory to read the book "Three Kingdoms" (in the Russian translation, it occupies two volumes of 750 pages in each), which details the events of the Chinese distemper of the II-III centuries. Another mandatory reading was considered almost as voluminous historical novel "River backwaters", which tells about the peasant uprising of the XII century. These epic narratives were complemented by a multitude of stories and narratives, poems and poems, and dramas on historical themes.

Attention to the experience of the past set people on the need to preserve the moral principles, the unity of the country and its cultural tradition. Probably, this attitude to the past largely contributed to the fact that, while many ancient civilizations disappeared, leaving behind only dead cultural monuments, the Chinese survived despite numerous invasions of foreigners and other adversities.

In addition, a detailed knowledge of the past helped the Chinese to constantly learn from it, drawing valuable insights for the present. It can be assumed that thanks to this education, China became the birthplace of many practical inventions that appeared on the planet long before their discovery in other countries of the world.

In my childhood, we, schoolchildren, enthusiastically read the book "Chinese secret", which told about the history of porcelain, created for the first time in China. Now it seems to me that the book kept silent about the main "secret of the Chinese." It would be interesting to learn how the development of education, built on cultivating the attention of millions of Chinese schoolchildren to the historical past and traditions, developed technical thought. Probably, the system of education contributed to the fact that china began to be produced in China in the 4th - 6th centuries. Even in the II century AD paper was first produced in China, gunpowder was invented in the 9th century, typography was established in the 11th century, paper money appeared in the 8th century, and in the 13th century a compass was invented.

Constant attention to past events has entered the daily life of the Chinese people.

Chronicles and works of art dedicated to the past of China, including even those that did not seem to describe very significant events, taught people to make the right decisions and help them overcome current difficulties.

When in the medieval Chinese drama, her hero Sun Chunar was forced to wade on foot in a snowstorm, he, in order to cheer himself up, recalled similar incidents from the distant past. He sang about how a statesman of the 4th century BC, who was expelled from the capital to his native village, walked in the same storm. er Su Qin. Sun Chunar dedicated a couple of lines to a third-century figure n. er to the eccentric Wang Huizhi, who went to a friend in a snowstorm on a boat, and then turned back at his doorstep, deciding that he should not disturb the master. Sun Chunar didn’t forget about how a man of the first century, a new era, Yuan An, and a tenth-century official Lu Mengcheng, showed restraint during brutal blizzards. These people and incidents with them were well known not only to viewers of that time, but also to many Chinese viewers and readers in subsequent times.

Stories about the past, which were known to everyone in China, helped the state and military leaders of the country of the twentieth century. In his memoirs comes from a poor peasant family, Marshal Peng

Dehuai recalled how, in his youth, he read "Three Kingdoms" and "River Creeks", and therefore in his mature years he was able to find apt comparison between his comrades in arms and the heroes of these works. In the biography of Marshal Zhu De, writer Amy Xiao told how, after the Chinese Red Army entered the village, a rally of a popular old Chinese opera about the events of the 2nd century AD was played at a rally, in which "wise Kun Ming almost defended the city from the attack of Syma ... The improvisers only remade a few phrases, changed the names of people and the names of localities. " In a slightly modified version, the ancient play sounded like a call for restraint and inspired faith in victory.

In his work 1936 of the Year "Strategic Issues of the Revolutionary War", Mao Zedong paid special attention to the military history of China and gave instructive examples of a whole series of battles of distant antiquity: under Chengao 203 BC, under Cunyan 23 AD. , under the Guangdong 200 AD, near Mount Chibi 208 AD, near Ilin 222 AD, near the Feishui River 383 AD His excellent knowledge of these ancient battles by the listeners allowed Mao not to go into details.

In his twentieth-century book about China, the former Kuomintang man Kuo Pingchio also repeatedly used historical comparisons. He found similarities in the policies of the Chiang Kai-shek government with the practices of the Eastern Qin dynasty (317 –420) and the Southern Song dynasty (1127 – 1279). The author compared Mao Zedong and persons from his circle with the founders of the Han dynasty (II century BC).

A broad knowledge of historical experience, the constant study of the lessons of history could not but contribute to the fact that China was able to quickly turn from a poor country, ruined by the imperialists of the country into one of the leading powers in the world.

When Motherland is in danger

Although the history of our country is shorter than Chinese, Russian culture also has deep historical roots. The memory of the past was saved in the annals, legends. Many epic poems were memorized by heart, and they have been preserved for centuries in people's memory. Although the epics about Ilya Muromets began to be created in the XI century, they were recorded from the words of those who continued to perform them in the XVIII - XX centuries.

Russian historians, starting with V.N.Tatishchev and N.M. Karamzin, describing and analyzing the thousand-year history of our country, contributed to the scientific study of its past and inspired the best figures of national culture to create works on historical themes. It is not by chance that the best literary works of Russian literature (Tolstoy’s “War and Peace”, Pushkin’s “Captain’s Daughter”, Lermontov’s “Borodino” and many others) are devoted to the most important historical events. Many paintings by Repin, Surikov, Vasnetsov, Vereshchagin and other top Russian artists illustrate the most important events in the history of Russia. The greatest works of Russian musical culture by Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Borodin and other composers were also devoted to events in Russian history.

The song of family feasts about Yermak, who "sat enveloped in thought ... on the quiet bank of the Irtysh," leads to a distant old days. He composed the lyrics of this song Ryleev and it deals with the events of August 6 of the year 1585.

The songs that sound nowadays about Stepan Razin, composed at the end of the XIX century, tell about old times. The memory of the heroic and tragic events of the Russian-Japanese war 1904 - 1905. keep the song "On the hills of Manchuria" and different versions of songs about the feat of "Varyag".

To the exploits of our ancestors and the historical experience of the people especially

often turned in our country in the years of ordeal.

In the harsh days of 1812, the emperor Alexander I called in his Manifesto to resist the French aggressor: "Yes, he will meet in every nobleman of Pozharsky, in every spiritual Palitsyn, in every citizen of Minin."

Judging by the scope of the nationwide Patriotic War, the emperor's call found a response in the hearts of people of all classes of Russia. They were inspired by examples of the selfless struggle of the Russian people for 200 years before the Napoleonic invasion.

22 June 1941, Locum tenens of the Orthodox Church, Metropolitan Sergius, wrote and typed with his own handwritten message "The Message to the Pastors and the flock of the Orthodox Church of Christ", which said: "The times of Batu, German knights, Karl of Sweden, Napoleon are repeated. try to put our people on their knees before the untruth. But it’s not the first time that the Russian people have to endure such trials. With God's help this time too, it will dispel the fascist enemy forces ... Let us remember the saints of the Russian people the leaders of Alexander Nevsky, Dimitry Donskoy who believed their souls for the people and the homeland ... the Lord will grant us victory! "

Through 11 days in his speech on the radio 3 July 1941, I.V. Stalin once again reminded: "Napoleon’s army was considered invincible, but it was defeated alternately by Russian, British, German troops." He also added: "The German army of Wilhelm during the period of the first imperialist war was also considered invincible, but she suffered defeat from the Russian and Anglo-French forces several times and, finally, was defeated by the Anglo-French troops." From these historical examples came the conclusion: "The Nazi fascist army can also be defeated and will be defeated, as the armies of Napoleon and Wilhelm were defeated."

Speaking at the November 7 parade, 1941, Mr. Stalin again gave examples from national history. Addressing the soldiers of the Red Army, he called for:

"Let the courageous image of our great ancestors - Alexander Nevsky, Dimitri Donskoy, Dimitri Pozharsky, Kuzma Minin, Alexander Suvorov, Mikhail Kutuzov inspire you in this war!"

At that time, these names were known to the overwhelming majority of Soviet people, young and old. Unlike many modern people, I, like many children of military and pre-war times, learned about the Kulikovo battle long before they entered school. I was three years old when I was presented with a set of cardboard soldiers who depicted the soldiers of the Kulikovo battle from the troops of Dmitry Donskoy and Mamai. On the box were two dates: 1380 and 1940. Such kits were released in 1940 on the occasion of the 560 anniversary of this battle. Not being familiar with the story, I played the Kulikovo battle, singing "Borodino". I memorized this poem of Lermontov, while my sister taught him out loud, preparing homework.

We also learned early about the Ice Battle. A couple of years later, I and my peers in Barnaul, in which I found myself during the evacuation, ran around the yard with plywood boards, each of which had a leopard depicted like Alexander Nevsky from the film of the same name. At the same time we played in the "defeat of the Germans near Moscow." Such a combination of historical eras was natural at that time. On the walls of the houses in Barnaul, one could see posters with verses: “We are beating great! We cut down desperately! Grandsons of Suvorov, children of Chapaev!”. On this poster, the artists Kukryniksy depicted the soldiers of the Red Army, and behind them the silhouettes of Chapaev, Suvorov and Alexander Nevsky.

There, in Barnaul, having barely learned to read, I read the magazine Murzilka many times, in which there was an essay about the Battle of Kulikovo. The essay was with pictures. In the drawing, which occupied two journal pages, Russian soldiers held banners with the faces of Jesus Christ. In the center of the picture, the monk Peresvet and the batyr Chelobey met in mortal combat. The text was accompanied by excerpts from the poem Ryleeva about this battle. It is obvious that many five-year-old children of that wartime would not have started laughing at the mention of "Kulikov Field" ...

Jokes about the past?

It would seem that today there are few people who doubt the necessity

study history. Answering the question of the ROMIR service, 67% agreed that "every citizen of Russia should know the history of his country well." Rather, they agreed with this statement than 26% did not agree with. Only 2% categorically disagreed with this, while 7% disagreed rather than agree.

But how, then, explains the numerous testimonies of the ignorance of historical facts by many people? And this is the age of universal literacy and the rapid development of the Internet!

Faced with obvious failures in the historical knowledge of my students, I decided to tell them about unknown events of the past.

In particular, he said that in Spain, a revolt was launched in 1936 against the republican government. The rebel troops, led by Generals Franco and Maul, supported by fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, attacked Madrid, the capital of Spain, 1 of October, 1936 of General Maul, on his radio said that his troops were attacking Madrid in four columns, but the fifth column already located inside the Spanish capital. In response, the Republicans announced that they would expose and destroy the traitors from the "fifth column".

Six months later, during the reception of tests for the most careless students, who, as a rule, did not attend lectures, I again asked the question about the “fifth column”. To my surprise, one student said she knew the answer. It turned out that she attended a lecture at which I spoke about the columns of General Maul. I suggested she tell everyone that she knows. Student briskly rattled; “Once, the Nazis organized a parade, as it were. In fact, there were four columns on the square. But the fifth column was invisible in particular.”

Why did the student remember my explanation? It is clear that she was not aware of either the "Spanish Civil War", or "General Franco", or the "Republicans". She perceived the information on the basis of those fragmentary ideas about the world, which she owned.

A similar discovery was made by the hero of Aldous Huxley's "After the Fireworks" writer Fanning. Fascinated by the letter of his young admirer Pamela Tarn, the writer met her and took her to the museum, where Etruscan works were displayed. In front of the first statue, the girl asked Fanning about the time of her creation. Hearing his answer ("At the end of the sixth century"), Pamela asked another question, which in English sounded briefly: "BC?" ("BBC?"), That is: "Before Christ?" This meant that the girl not only did not know the time when the Etruscans lived, although it was part of the school curriculum, but she probably would not be surprised if Fanning said that the statue depicting the ancient pagan goddess was created in the 6th century AD. when the Etruscans disappeared long ago, and paganism gave way to Christianity, Rome fell, and Italy was ruled by the barbarian Ostrogoths, and then the Lombards.

Soon, Fanning was convinced that his companion, picking up other people's phrases, could maintain an outwardly “intelligent” conversation and even construct a “smart” letter, but her fragmentary ideas about culture and history floated in a space free from historical facts with a friend. It is completely obvious that neither Pamela Tarn, nor the Moscow student mentioned by me, is not alone in her ignorance of the past and the unsystematic perception of certain facts of history.

Unfortunately, many people understand by “good knowledge of history” the ability to amuse a company with an entertaining story, which includes the names of historical persons, the names of ancient peoples and countries. These stories can even emphasize their erudition. It is possible that after visiting the museum, Pamela Tarn could surprise her interlocutors with her “education”, mentioning “Etruscan sculptures”. It is not excluded that the students I mentioned could have told someone confused stories about a fascist parade of five columns, or about Hitler's flight to Argentina from a burning Reichstag. A similar “expert on history” can make a note on the Internet, stunning other users with the delusional message that the first German plane was shot down by Soviet pilots only on the fifth day after the start of World War II.

For a number of reasons in our country, many began to treat history not seriously, as a “non-practical” subject.

For many people, history has become a collection of jokes in which real events are reduced to the limit, the complexities and contradictions of the historical process, as well as the historical context, are eliminated. Such an anecdote can make you laugh, scare, but not teach.

The preference for entertaining the plot in the course of acquaintance with history is reflected in the choice of sources of historical knowledge. Only 15% of those surveyed by ROMIR called their “main source of knowledge on history” “scientific literature”. However, 60% of respondents said that for them "the main source of information on the history of our country" is "television".

Meanwhile, the specificity of the television genre, giving a colorful story about historical events, does not always contribute to their deep coverage. Even if the creators of the program strive to enlighten the audience, it is not easy for them to do it in an incomplete hour (or even half an hour) of television time. In addition, many creators of television programs strive to keep the attention of the television audience in all possible ways, and therefore the truthfulness of the presentation of events is sacrificed to entertaining content, often very far from the truth.

Finally, home conditions, in which the viewer watches the program (not necessarily from the very beginning and often distracting from the screen), do not contribute to attentive study of historical material.

Oblivion of school lessons, unwillingness to study history thoughtfully and systematically, like any subject of scientific research, the tendency to uncritically pick up and repeat snatches of flashy information from questionable TV shows and messages in print or on the Internet, as well as from idle talk of ignoramuses led to a monstrous degradation of historical knowledge in a significant part population of the country. This also contributes to the uncritical attitude to their own knowledge, which increases with the rapid growth of the number of graduates of higher institutions and Internet users. On this basis, charlatan essays on history themes that are blindly mistaken for "scientific literature" flourish in full color.

Photo: Konstantin Vasilyev's painting “Parade of 1941 of the Year”
Author:
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  1. xetai9977
    xetai9977 12 September 2013 08: 01 New
    25
    And what to expect from modern students, when they play with a mobile phone all day long, receive and send messages for whom protection issues are of paramount importance. Their idols are "cultural figures" like Dima Bilan and Borka Moiseev. I'm not talking about all the students. Of course, there are those among them who study conscientiously, but such are a clear minority.
    1. Aryan
      Aryan 12 September 2013 11: 31 New
      22
      if this article is true
      then it is very unfortunate
      in Russian schools in Moldova Russian History is known much better

      and I am more and more convinced that the Russian people
      those who live not in Russia love and hope for Russia more
      than the inhabitants of Russia themselves

      Take care of the pancake homeland dear Russians !!!
      We hope for you!
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 12 September 2013 15: 16 New
        +7
        Quote: Aryan
        if this article is true
        then it is very unfortunate

        “It turned out that only 8% of respondents could answer 11 questions on history from the 2th grade curriculum. Only 4% were able to answer 7 questions correctly. Only 8% gave correct answers to 6 questions. And this is despite the fact that there are many people in the country who are deeply interested in history. "

        The degradation of knowledge is evident, there is no arguing here. Only I would not, as a testing template, rely on the 11th grade program, over the past 20-25 years there have been so many history programs that at least someone knows something well. Secondly, it’s good for the Americans: their history is 200-250 years, which fit the Boston tea party, the Civil War, the Great Depression and WWII. Our history is vast and eventful, those people who are interested in history, too, after all, are most often interested in certain periods of it, which are closer and more interesting to them. It is impossible to know everything, but we must strive for this.
        1. hommer
          hommer 12 September 2013 23: 17 New
          +4
          Quote: Vladimirets
          The degradation of knowledge is evident


          Unified State Examination ... her. The most insidious, long-playing and destructive sabotage against the future of the country.
        2. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 13 September 2013 00: 20 New
          +5
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Only I wouldn’t rely on the 11 class program as a testing template, over the past 20-25 years there have been so many history programs that at least someone knows something well

          Almost the entire 11th grade of the eldest daughter, I had to comment on important points on the history of the USSR from the time of Stalin to Khrushchev, because some chapters were "pressed into" events, the conversation about which can be continued throughout the week. It is high time to study the section "Recent History of Russia" for at least one academic year, and not a quarter or half a year.
  2. Firstvanguard
    Firstvanguard 12 September 2013 08: 15 New
    +4
    All this is sad ... crying
    1. Gari
      Gari 12 September 2013 10: 41 New
      +5
      Quote: Firstvanguard
      All this is sad ...

      It's not just sad, it's dangerous
      "A people who have forgotten their past has no future"
      said one of the ancient philosophers
      1. Yon_Silent
        Yon_Silent 13 September 2013 16: 51 New
        0
        Any porridge can be world
        Gorlopan Youth
        Which is the second world
        Already a little confused with the Trojan ...

        This was said by a modern philosopher)))
  3. Belogor
    Belogor 12 September 2013 08: 35 New
    +7
    And why would young people have a broad outlook if the media space is solid yellowness. A worthy person is not one who is smart and decent, but one who has a lot of money. So the craving for knowledge is replaced by the craving for money.
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 12 September 2013 12: 48 New
      +7
      I do not understand, or is there really no ONE history textbook in Russia?
      1. Praetorian
        Praetorian 12 September 2013 13: 52 New
        +5
        Yes, they change every year, these textbooks. And each is described in different ways. In some important events, they are mentioned in one or two lines, they say that they were. Here is the story. But, considering where our scholars get their grants from ... everything becomes clear.
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 12 September 2013 14: 07 New
          +6
          It is incomprehensible to me that the country does not have a ONE history textbook !!! How can this, rely on the conscience of various authors on various events in the history of the country. And not the fact that other authors have a conscience!
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 14: 23 New
            +6
            Quote: xetai9977
            How can this, rely on the conscience of various authors on various events in the history of the country. And not the fact that other authors have a conscience!

            That's it ...
            Words cannot be ejected from a song ... But it turns out that one can eject the history of the country from the minds of young people, if not all. Therefore, he wrote, bitterly, that 9-e May for many young people is more than a flash mob ... crying
      2. Lapotnik
        Lapotnik 12 September 2013 16: 07 New
        +1
        He will not be. Come and see the discussion on the corresponding forum.

        PS I’m interested, but how many visitors to the site were able to answer questions about the history posed in the article? I confess - partially and for the most part superficially ...

        Conspiracy and other secrets created a certain layer in the brain dedicated to research, etc., but the confirmed historical data and personalities for all this information blurred, and even disappeared (...
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 20: 51 New
          +5
          Quote: Lapotnik
          PS I’m interested, but how many visitors to the site were able to answer questions about the history posed in the article? I confess - partially and for the most part superficially ...

          Bye ...
          He helped his daughter when passing the exam in history (via SMS) - in the end - the best result in the field.
  4. Ulysses
    Ulysses 12 September 2013 08: 50 New
    +5
    "The one who does not know his past has no future .."
    Irek Bikkin.
  5. Egoza
    Egoza 12 September 2013 08: 52 New
    +8
    History is the spiritual core of the people. During the years of cataclysms, wars, trials, the people rely on this core, remember their heroes, their ancestors. "They did it and we can do it too! And we haven't been in such trouble!" Such people cannot be broken by anyone!
    A people who have forgotten their history is very easy to fool, buy, break, destroy!
    Children make up 25% of the adult population. But after 10-15 years - this is all the adult, most able-bodied population of the country.
    THIS IS BECAUSE AND TRYING TO RELEASE OUR CHILDREN FROM KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORY! And those who do this are ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE!
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 14: 30 New
      +6
      Quote: Egoza
      THIS IS BECAUSE AND TRYING TO RELEASE OUR CHILDREN FROM KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORY! And those who do this are ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE!


      And against this background, another "innovation" from the Ministry of Education "perfectly" fits in - you can not do your homework ... Yoshkin cat! Well this is the Scandinavian model, when "brakes" and lazy people are used as an example to all other children! Add here the copied model of juvenile justice introduced from the same place (don't you dare punish children, don't dare force them to do their homework! Children, call us, we will help you! "Barnevar, Norway"), and that's it, you can "drain the water" ... ...
  6. MrFYGY
    MrFYGY 12 September 2013 08: 54 New
    +1
    The authorities really do not want the people to know their history, since History tells about the change of Power.

    And the story also tells about how it was "before" this power. Therefore, each new government tries first of all to blacken this very "before"
    Just think, how many times has power changed in our country? Sometimes it becomes frightening to realize how many times our history has been texted.
  7. Boris55
    Boris55 12 September 2013 08: 58 New
    0
    Putin about the Battle of Kulikovo.


    In my opinion, there was a battle between pagans and Christians on the Kulikov field.
    1. Luga
      Luga 12 September 2013 14: 25 New
      +8
      At least, a very controversial statement.
      Still, if you try to divide the participants in the Battle of Kulikovo along religious lines, then it would be more accurate to say "Orthodox against the rest." By the way, I do not know what Putin meant when he said that the Russians fought on the side of the Tatars, but the fact that the Tatars were on our side is known for certain. Tsarevich Cherkiz or Serkiz with his nukers. However, the main condition for the transition of any foreigner to the Russian service at that time was the acceptance of Orthodox baptism, so that only Orthodox Christians could be in our army. But in the army of Mamai, apart from Muslims, there were also detachments of the Genoese, i.e. Catholic Italians, and many others. There could be Orthodox Christians, but in the smallest quantities, as an exception.
      For a long time, as a traitor, they stigmatized Prince Ryazan Oleg, but there is no information about his participation in the battle, especially on the side of the Tatars.
      And about the pagans ... At the end of the 1380 in Europe, the pagans remained only in Lithuania, and then there were very few of them. The rest were either killed or converted. Both Catholics (mainly Germans of the Order) and Muslims (Khan Uzbek and his descendants) were very concerned about this business. Russian spiritual expansion took place much more peacefully and was directed mainly to the northeast, to the Urals.
      In the Battle of Kulikovo, Lithuanian princes Andrei and Dmitry Olgerdovichi participated on our side, but they themselves were Orthodox and their principalities (Polotsk and Bryansk, respectively) were purely Orthodox.
      So there were practically no pagans in either army.
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 12 September 2013 18: 30 New
        +4
        Quote: Luga
        For a long time, as a traitor, they stigmatized Prince Ryazan Oleg, but there is no information about his participation in the battle, especially on the side of the Tatars.

        On the Kulikovo field, only about seventy Ryazan boyars perished. And they, as you know, did not come alone. And the Lithuanian prince, for some reason, was not ready for the battle to help Mamai with the "help" of the Ryazan people. Prince Oleg is not sugar, but Moscow historians of those times did their best. How is it. The Moscow princes did not need competitors in the person of the Tver and Ryazan princes, so information war is not an invention of our days.
        Alas! The article is true. But not only power is to blame for the illiteracy of children. And parents? It seems to me the fault of the parents of such children is more than state.
    2. smile
      smile 12 September 2013 16: 50 New
      +1
      Boris55
      Forgive me, but loud Internet headlines like "Sensation! They hide the truth from us" in normal people can only cause a gag reflex. They are designed exclusively for ruminants ...
  8. anip
    anip 12 September 2013 09: 28 New
    +5
    "Dom-2", "Comedy Club", etc. yet they will not lead to this.
    On the other hand, what gives a good knowledge of history for practical life? That's why the majority and do not care. So the routine of the population occurs.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 12 September 2013 09: 57 New
      +4
      Six Priorities for Managing Humanity



      The second priority is chronological

      “Look back at your backs often to avoid notable mistakes in the future.”
      Kozma Prutkov

      It is known that a person who has forgotten his history, the history of his Fatherland, is like a tree that has lost its roots. And what will happen if a whole people forget their history or believe in some historical myth imposed on them taking into account the interests of external hostile forces? George Orwell once wrote: "He who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past." Rewriting the history of a people inevitably leads to a change in its future. That is why the coming of the new government is always accompanied by the rewriting of history, but at the same time the rulers themselves do not understand how they are used in the dark. This is very clearly manifested today in the former Soviet republics that broke away from the USSR. Therefore, you must always remember that history never teaches anything, it only punishes for ignorance of its lessons.

      You ask - "and what gives a good knowledge of history for practical life?"
      The answer is not to be a ram driven into a stable and asking for alms from a shepherd.
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 12 September 2013 12: 46 New
      +7
      Add more "moral" programs like "the last hero", "minute of glory" and others like them and the picture will become clear! There was already a competition in transmissions - who will get nasty, swear, show cowards ..... We are holding on, we have a Soviet temper, but the youth have completely lost their bearings.
      1. Arabist
        Arabist 12 September 2013 14: 42 New
        +2
        So there are others — the best city in the world, the altar of victory, the Kremlin’s funeral, programs with Radzinsky and similar ones. It’s important to just be able to find them. I think the majority is still a bit thicker.
  9. Paul 23rus
    Paul 23rus 12 September 2013 09: 47 New
    +2
    And I remembered the date of the Battle of Kulikovo for life. My history teacher had a method - I did not learn the date of copying it into a notebook 100 times, a very effective method
  10. creak
    creak 12 September 2013 09: 48 New
    +3
    These are easier to manage ...
    1. avt
      avt 12 September 2013 10: 14 New
      +3
      Quote: ranger
      These are easier to manage ...

      They integrate perfectly into any network system from corporate to religious and with a feeling of depression, they are sure that they are completely free.
  11. Hort
    Hort 12 September 2013 09: 57 New
    +4
    I am generally struck sometimes - how could such a total illiteracy arise in a relatively short period of time? I don’t even speak about history. After all, even the generation of 90's, those who are now 23-25 years old, studied under the old programs, before the introduction of the exam. And the teachers in many schools / universities were and are the same ones that taught us, thirty years old ...
    1. washi
      washi 12 September 2013 14: 12 New
      +4
      Are you sure you studied in the 90s?
      I talked with students from local universities and cadets at VVMU. Everything was bought. Exam, offset - everything is summarized.
      There is no answer to the elementary question on the school curriculum.
      1. Hort
        Hort 13 September 2013 06: 00 New
        0
        Yes, and it was, of course. For some reason, it was always always surprising that we somehow weaned off normally at the same time, in fact. Textbooks were only bought in grades 10-11, and that’s just chemistry with geography. Everything else was in the library.
        And in both universities I studied without a "fee" for the exam
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 14: 43 New
      +7
      Quote: hort
      I am generally struck sometimes - how could such a total illiteracy arise in a relatively short period of time? I don’t even speak about history. After all, even the generation of 90's, those who are now 23-25 years old, studied under the old programs, before the introduction of the exam. And the teachers in many schools / universities were and are the same ones that taught us, thirty years old ...

      High school is ruined disciplined. The rectors do not want to see that for acceptable grades for exams and tests there are certain prices, and the proportion of 1 score-1 thousand rubles is still flowers.
      The teachers who came from such universities to work in schools no longer suffer from the complex of "social injustice". Extortions - for the repair of the school, for the renovation of the classroom, for the birthday of the class teacher - are no longer hidden by anyone.
      Children who have gone through such schools and universities grow up to be social cynics. What story ?? ... What justice? ... Cool mobiles-smartphones-tablets-cars-"night lights" - that's it, yeah, it's co-oo-ol ...
    3. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US 12 September 2013 23: 45 New
      +3
      Not true!! My son is 25, but there was no exam but there was already a Zomkov program, I remember well how in the history textbook about the Second World War there were only TWO pages ......
  12. avt
    avt 12 September 2013 09: 58 New
    +5
    Quote: ranger
    These are easier to manage ...

    request Well, after all, Fursenko said that consumers need to be prepared, quite openly, not embarrassed. This is where the growth of consumers has grown, no, of course they haven’t beaten up to the end, and they have not reprogrammed everyone in ruminants, but of course the percentage with a clean brain in the history department has grown significantly . Well, if you add clip perception of information and a lack of readiness to analyze even it, because you haven’t taught it, it’s depressing.
  13. Djozz
    Djozz 12 September 2013 10: 31 New
    +5
    The Chinese "history" is a complete falsification, by lengthening the history one can present territorial claims to a neighbor, they say this is our "primordial" land!
    1. washi
      washi 12 September 2013 14: 22 New
      +5
      Quote: Djozz
      The Chinese "history" is a complete falsification, by lengthening the history one can present territorial claims to a neighbor, they say this is our "primordial" land!

      But our story is circumcised.
      I cannot imagine how to create unified history textbooks under these conditions.
      Lenin is a foreign agent, but whose? If you believe one, then German, if in fact - English. Ukraine - was it a state or not? Are Kazakhs a people or tribes? Have we conquered them or occupied empty lands (not occupied by the permanent population)? Collective farms are good or evil, given the lack of famine after collectivization (unlike RI, where crop failure was regular). Is repression good or evil, given the coming of Trotskyist Khrushchev to power after the assassination of Stalin?
      1. Luga
        Luga 12 September 2013 15: 01 New
        +6
        The story is not designed to label who is bad and who is good. For each of your questions, you can draw up two detailed answers that are absolutely opposite in terms of final conclusions. And history books should have facts. Only the most important thing is that children mentally imagine how people lived in ancient and not very times, what they ate, what they drank, what they dressed, what language they spoke, how, with whom and for what they fought and at the same time understood that all this them, not someone else's, namely their great-grandfathers fought on Kalka and on the Kulikovo field, near Poltava and near Stalingrad, plowed the land, traded, wrote books, laid roads, built cities and factories. And what they, it is they who have to continue this all, and in order to avoid mistakes, even those that were already committed by their ancestors, you need to know your story.
        But Lenin was an English spy or German - this is for professional historians, or at least for those seriously interested. The puny bespectacled man, who enthusiastically solves problems in chemistry or physics, may not know this, but he must clearly know and understand why and for whom he solves these problems. This knowledge should give him a history textbook.
        1. dmb
          dmb 12 September 2013 15: 36 New
          +1
          Hanging up labels is generally the last thing, but giving an assessment as objective as possible is necessary. Regarding Lenin, this is a shortcut, because the concept of espionage does not suit his work in any way, no matter how it is evaluated: positively or negatively. I have tried more than once to ask citizens like your counterpart why they call Khrushchev the Trotskyist. Naturally, I didn’t get an answer, because they seem to be poorly versed in Trotskyism, and they are trying to learn history from illiterate commentators on the Internet.
        2. dmb
          dmb 12 September 2013 22: 15 New
          +1
          Sorry, in addition to the following. Do you still have doubts about the need for an assessment? There is a fact-Kulikovo battle, and there is its interpretation by your opponent. You gave an assessment to its interpretation. In my opinion, it’s quite fair. And if in the textbook such a gentleman will state the fact?
  14. albai
    albai 12 September 2013 10: 38 New
    +2
    It is no coincidence that Fursin's article "The Cold East Wind" says
    Nations, as history shows, are created through nationalism, the main tools of which are the school and the army (it was these institutions that were deliberately destroyed in the Russian Federation).
    And today we have what we have: illiterate young people living only today and the Army slowly rising to its feet. And this is observed throughout the post-Soviet space. To confidently go into the future, you need to know the past well.
  15. Toporkoff
    Toporkoff 12 September 2013 11: 26 New
    +1
    I advise you to watch a series on the new chronology of Fomenko and Nosovsky ... makes you think ...
    1. bomg.77
      bomg.77 12 September 2013 14: 49 New
      +8
      Quote: Toporkoff
      I advise you to watch a series on the new chronology of Fomenko and Nosovsky ... makes you think ...
      To read Fomenko and Nosovsky, first you need to know the official history! I think if young people have no idea about domestic and world history, they just don’t understand what they are writing about. hi
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 16: 09 New
        +6
        Quote: bomg.77
        To read Fomenko and Nosovsky, you first need to know the official history! I think if young people have no idea about domestic and world history, they just don’t understand what they are writing about


        So they read it, and take it for the truth. Vaughn "their" lope on a branch about Scythian Rus ...
        1. bomg.77
          bomg.77 12 September 2013 16: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: stalkerwalker

          So they read it, and take it for the truth. Vaughn "their" lope on a branch about Scythian Rus ...
          Nosovsky and Fomenko write convincingly and there is logic in their theory.
          I agree with them in some things. For me it’s just interesting, but I’m not ready yet to reject the official story. hi
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 12 September 2013 16: 56 New
          0
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          So they read it, and take it for the truth. Vaughn "their" lope on a branch about Scythian Rus ...

          What is the difference whose lies are in the story? Official or Fomenkovskaya!
  16. Denis
    Denis 12 September 2013 11: 35 New
    +6
    So that it was clean on the ground in front of the house
    Since such a sad situevina, such a mess in education must be done by ourselves. If my 11-year-old didn’t answer such questions, then he was immediately banned from TV, the street and sweets to be wary
    Although I also know the date of the Battle of Kulikovo approximately, but I’ll tell you the results and participants
    I also try to influence my nephews, godchildren and friends of my son, they often go into the garage
    Let's do it all, then we’ll change something
    1. Luga
      Luga 12 September 2013 15: 09 New
      +2
      Exactly!
      I support and join.
  17. Ulan
    Ulan 12 September 2013 11: 41 New
    +2
    Yes, ignorance of history becomes blatant. In addition, subversors and falsifiers of all stripes, who divorced immeasurably, also played their destructive role, so ignoramuses appear who seriously say that it was the USSR, together with Germany, that started the Second World War, that they fought on the Kulikovo field two Russian troops that no one knows about the Battle of Molody, which in its importance is on a par with the Battle of Kulikovo, Borodino, etc.
    A sad sight. A person who does not know the history of his country cannot be a patriot.
    So they grow - "Ivans do not remember kinship."
  18. Sarmat1972
    Sarmat1972 12 September 2013 12: 04 New
    +3
    I have 2 children, the eldest is studying at a university in Moscow. When there were questions about the study of history, I always said to my children: "in order to simply pass the exams, it is enough to know all the wars in which Russia participated, and in order to know history, you need to read more about the culture of the peoples of the world." Now the youngest son is going to college. He only says "thank you".
  19. Djozz
    Djozz 12 September 2013 12: 37 New
    +3
    YOU look who "runs" our history! As in the early 20s, the overthrowers and smerdyakovs.
  20. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 12 September 2013 13: 04 New
    +4
    "Although the history of our country is shorter than that of China ..." - here it should be written "Although the KNOWN history of our country is shorter than the Chinese one ...". You will also say that the Americans saved Europe from Hitler ... hi
  21. Alexey M
    Alexey M 12 September 2013 14: 00 New
    +7
    History is still a prostitute. Everyone turns as he wants. And from our education, first Soviet and then Russian, I only learned that for some reason foreigners teach us Russians and write our history to us. That’s Nestor writes, then the Vikings build, then the Tatars go yoke Greeks planted Christianity, Italians built the Kremlin and the like. But for some reason we are modestly silent about Russian achievements. Why does studying the history of Russia begin with baptism? Before Christian Russia, it is almost not studied in history textbooks. Probably because the Angles still ate raw mammoths and we have already built cities. Yes, and then everyone knows that Tsar Peter 1 studied in Holland but not everyone remembers that Nartov came from England and said that there was nothing to study there. And there are many such examples.
    Hence the conclusion that you need to remember your story and love your people.
  22. knn54
    knn54 12 September 2013 14: 01 New
    +5
    As soon as the USSR collapsed, it became fashionable to denigrate everything that is connected with socialism and communist ideology. The pseudoscientific “men”, careerists and opportunists surfaced. Knowledge of the history of one’s country is an indispensable attribute of national identity. The LOVED dream of "some" is a stupid Russian people without a clan and tribe. And they are trying to erase his history from the memory of the people.
    In the PRC novel and the film "How Steel Was Tempered" - VERY popular. And on the example of Pavka Korchagin they bring up love for the Motherland among young people. But here Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya turned into an arsonist. Look at the credits of modern films, you will not see the names (unlike the Soviet ones) of the CONSULTANTS there. Hence the irresponsible mistakes.
    And while we do not cultivate respect for our own history, and its interpretation will depend on the opportunistic considerations of illiterate or outright traitors, the country will be ruled by ignoramuses who have received a "university" education, it is not clear where - one of our deputy, who heads the parliamentary committee, added the words: The state is I, - De Gaulle. Only by declaring WAR on the pseudoscientific "elite" we have a chance to revive the GREAT EMPIRE. After all, history is also an information weapon!
    1. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 12 September 2013 14: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: knn54
      After all, history is also an information weapon!

      - what more! Russian youth of the Baltic states, Western Ukraine, Poland hates! We are invaders! ..
  23. Taoist
    Taoist 12 September 2013 14: 28 New
    +5
    Yes, it is getting scary ... My daughter is a schoolgirl. Just yesterday we talked to her and she complained about the "stupidity" of her classmates ... (unlike them, she knows a little history from my suggestion). The randomness of knowledge (if any) is simply amazing. "clip-like" thinking generally does not allow them to track any causal relationships.
  24. stroporez
    stroporez 12 September 2013 14: 29 New
    +9
    sat down to help with mathematics, the kids from our center.PTs ---- oral counting skills-zero, knowledge of the multiplication table --- zero. talked to the teachers ---- "we are not tasked with teaching them the multiplication table" ... ....... I think with the story the same situevina ........ cattle are purposefully raised ........
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 September 2013 16: 12 New
      +8
      Quote: stroporez
      "we are not tasked with teaching them the multiplication table" ..


      In turnips I will teach both the director and the teacher. Extort money and others know how.
  25. Letterksi
    Letterksi 12 September 2013 17: 09 New
    +3
    Putin will try to launch the process of a "uniform" assessment of history with a single textbook, but again nothing will come of it. History will be distorted again and not for the last time. Again, quite often there will be controversial moments, to which more than one historian will not give an unambiguous answer, and living participants in the historical events described in the textbook will spit from lies
    1. bomg.77
      bomg.77 12 September 2013 19: 19 New
      +4
      Quote: LetterKsi
      Putin will try to launch the process of a "unified" assessment of history with a single textbook, but he will again fail.
      If there is a single textbook, then before the 11 class, children will learn from it, and this is the foundation. All other versions and interpretations of history will be considered based on this foundation. hi
      1. Letterksi
        Letterksi 12 September 2013 22: 36 New
        +1
        foundation with cracks leads to the destruction of the building. Why is there so much debate about history today? - for the reason that the majority, from the time of Soviet education, have accumulated a lot of questions about inconsistencies and contradictions in the historical foundation that was laid in our heads by Soviet propaganda with all the omissions and protrusions . ... the foundation sank. For 23 years, several foundations have already managed to sag. ... a new one will sag, because initially it will be false and contradictory, because the scientists have already received the paid money and took up pens and ink to compose the truth
        1. bomg.77
          bomg.77 12 September 2013 23: 00 New
          +1
          The foundation in the history of Russia is: the baptism of Russia, Peter the Great, Cyril and Mythodius, 1812 year, Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great, Emelyan Pugachev, Stepan Razin, Suvorov, Kutuzov, Nakhimov, Ushakov, Zhukov Rokosovsky, Great Patriotic War, Stalin, Lenin, Alexander the First , Minin, Pozharsky, Ermak, Prince Vladimir, Princess Olga, Alexander Nevsky, Lomonosov, Mendeleev, Korolev, Pushkin, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, and so on, here is our foundation, here are the personalities around which history revolved and this foundation has no cracks. The most humane and largest state in the world was built on this foundation and will still stand and will stand. hi
          1. rereture
            rereture 12 September 2013 23: 09 New
            0
            Those. Do you think you should not know the history before Christian Russia?
            1. bomg.77
              bomg.77 12 September 2013 23: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: rereture
              Those. Do you think you should not know the history before Christian Russia?
              I didn’t write this. You need to know the whole story, that before baptism, that after. I wanted us to build a story around personalities, that’s our foundation, but they were Christians or pagans it doesn’t matter. Princess Olga and Prince Oleg cannot be deleted from history, as well as their affairs. hi
              1. rereture
                rereture 12 September 2013 23: 38 New
                +2
                Well, to be honest, I think it’s necessary in history to look for causal relationships, and build everything on them, and give an analysis (it is better for the student to make it out himself).
                1. bomg.77
                  bomg.77 13 September 2013 00: 02 New
                  +1
                  Causal relationships and analysis are for professionals, and students, (with their fragile brains) need a dry residue.
                  1. rereture
                    rereture 13 September 2013 00: 20 New
                    +2
                    It is necessary to teach analysis, and history has a simple analysis. It is foolish to force one to learn dry facts. History is not needed in order to memorize dates (for this there are textbooks, reference books). History is needed in order to learn how to analyze correctly, to teach how to establish a causal relationship.
                    1. stalkerwalker
                      stalkerwalker 13 September 2013 01: 51 New
                      +5
                      Quote: rereture
                      History is needed in order to learn how to analyze correctly, to teach how to establish a causal relationship.

                      I think that this is the task of the Higher School.
                      In the middle, the basis for further analysis is given.
                    2. bomg.77
                      bomg.77 13 September 2013 02: 21 New
                      +2
                      Quote: rereture
                      It is necessary to teach analysis, and history has a simple analysis. It is foolish to force one to learn dry facts. History is not needed in order to memorize dates (for this there are textbooks, reference books). History is needed in order to learn how to analyze correctly, to teach how to establish a causal relationship.
                      A person analyzes from birth, and if the child didn’t do the simplest analysis, he would do it only by operating with the data obtained in the learning process. rejects the learning process to make it more attractive. We say the same thing in different words. hi
                      1. rereture
                        rereture 13 September 2013 07: 49 New
                        0
                        Most likely it is wink
          2. Letterksi
            Letterksi 13 September 2013 11: 47 New
            0
            I think that the following things will not be included in the general textbook, due to their "irrelevance" for the modern structure of the Russian Federation, although some of these things are directly related to the listed individuals:

            1. The economic structure of the USSR during the reign of the personality that is depicted on your avatar, due to the contradiction of modern monetarist ideology according to Milton Friedman and consumerism imposed on the Russian Federation

            2. Demographic decline during the reign of Peter I and the "fun" of the Russian nobility in those days. Perhaps this will be mentioned in passing, without evaluation

            3. Genocide of Russians in 1990 in Chechnya. Although this is officially recognized in the Russian Federation, it is hushed up in the media in modern times. But, I think, in a single textbook, this will not be included, since the definition of "single" does not imply the inclusion of such things

            4. Events of 1993 will also be distorted, as they directly affect the modern Russian constitution of the country

            5. Wars with the Kokand and Khiva khanates of the 19th century under the leadership of Skobelev will also not be mentioned or will be distorted. (By the way, documents related to this topic were "presented" to Uzbekistan during the dashing 90s and, most likely, cannot be returned)

            6. Merits of Russia in the fight against slavery in Turkestan in the 19th century. The states successfully pulled the blanket of the main workers-wrestlers onto themselves, which is not true. Russia is the main successful historical fighter with this phenomenon. By the way, the slave system is one of the prerequisites for the war with the Kokand Khanate and Khivi

            the list goes on.

            Already now, we can assume that a single textbook will be aimed at fundamentally fooling our youth
      2. Russ69
        Russ69 12 September 2013 23: 38 New
        +2
        The textbook was almost prepared, but as always on the question of the role of Stalin and the collapse of the USSR, they cannot agree ...
        1. bomg.77
          bomg.77 13 September 2013 00: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Russ69
          The textbook was almost prepared, but as always on the question of the role of Stalin and the collapse of the USSR, they cannot agree ...
          Stalin, Stalin, the Jews will not calm down, they want to level out his achievements)) Well, well. smile
        2. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 13 September 2013 00: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: Russ69
          as always, they cannot agree on the question of the role of Stalin and the collapse of the USSR ..

          And do not agree.
          This is a matter of fundamental importance. This is the "touchstone" on which the methodologies for assessing what happened to the country are being refined.
          Most likely, they will accept the "distilled" neutral version without fundamental conclusions.
          1. Russ69
            Russ69 13 September 2013 00: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            And do not agree.
            This is a matter of fundamental importance. This is the "touchstone" on which the methodologies for assessing what happened to the country are being refined.
            Most likely, they will accept the "distilled" neutral version without fundamental conclusions.

            Quote: bomg.77
            Stalin, Stalin, the Jews will not calm down, they want to level out his achievements)) Well, well.

            According to Medinsky, they seem to want to talk about the restoration of the country, but about "repression", of course, too. There is still the question of how all this will be presented and what will come out on top ...
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 13 September 2013 01: 48 New
              +5
              Quote: Russ69
              There is another question, how all this will be filed and what will come out in the first place ...

              I'm afraid it will be according to Chernomyrdin: "We wanted the best ..."
              hi
            2. bomg.77
              bomg.77 13 September 2013 02: 43 New
              +1
              Quote: Russ69
              According to Medinsky, they seem to want to talk about the restoration of the country, but about "repression", of course, too. There is still the question of how all this will be presented and what will come out on top ...
              A month ago, Medina appointed the head of the Polytechnic Museum Yulia Shakhnovskaya,
              daughter of the head of the Menatep firm and the closest associate of Khodorkovsky hiding in Switzerland. The sonist is still the same. The so-called "repressions" reacted very well to them in some Siberian city, when they organized a march on the victims of "repressions" there, they brought posters of Hitler and Germans captured in Stalingrad! Like Stalin repressed them too. Let's cry laughing
  26. Djozz
    Djozz 12 September 2013 17: 14 New
    +1
    Here is Fedya Bondarchuk, another "masterpiece" who has played "Stalingrad" and claims to be an Oscar, I don’t know whether to cry or laugh!
    1. Denis
      Denis 12 September 2013 19: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: Djozz
      Here is Fedya Bondarchuk, another "masterpiece" who has played "Stalingrad" and claims to be an Oscar, I don’t know whether to cry or laugh!
      Spit, such unconventional at the table do not remember
      Filmed in "Spetsnaz, where he famously fought with the bandits. And went to the celebration of the anniversary of Grozny, in fact, R. Kadyrov's days. Who is he after that?"
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 12 September 2013 23: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Djozz
      Here is Fedya Bondarchuk, another "masterpiece" who has played "Stalingrad" and claims to be an Oscar, I don’t know whether to cry or laugh!

      First we’ll see, and then we’ll decide. The film, by the way, was made with the Germans. Somewhere there was an interview with a German participating in the filming.
  27. Hulk
    Hulk 12 September 2013 18: 30 New
    0
    Quote: Luga
    In the Battle of Kulikovo, Lithuanian princes Andrei and Dmitry Olgerdovichi participated on our side, but they themselves were Orthodox and their principalities (Polotsk and Bryansk, respectively) were purely Orthodox.


    In 1373, several years before the Battle of Kulikovo, Dmitry saw the army of the Lithuanian prince Olgerd under the walls of Moscow, and surrendered the city to him without a fight. For nine years Moscow was included in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (which is now well "forgotten" by all Russian historians). And since Moscow at that time was a border ulus of the Horde, its capture meant a declaration of war on the entire Horde. Only in the Horde at that time there was a struggle for power between Mamai and Tokhtamysh, and there they were in no hurry to send troops to recapture some border "Belarusians" white). Mamai, having gathered a motley army of Horde and European mercenaries (for this he even accepted the Catholic faith), decided to take Moscow, and thereby gain political points for himself.
    Everyone knows what happened on the battlefield. True, they are silent about the fact that the "brilliant idea" to hide most of the troops in an ambush was in fact the standard practice of the Lithuanian princes Olgerdovich, who, in the absence of Dmitry, commanded the battle. (Dmitry, frightened of possible revenge from Mamai, decided to play it safe.) The forcibly recruited local militia was placed in a prominent place in the center, and their army was hidden. And when Mamai was carried away by routing the local poorly armed peasants, they hit themselves. The ending was obvious ... Therefore, Yagailo (the Christian name has not been preserved in history), having heard about the victory over Mamai, turned back.
    Dmitri, after the victory, remained to rule in Moscow, but under the supervision of the "Lithuanian curator" Prince Ostey. Subsequently, he tried to organize a riot in the city, but the idea failed, and he was expelled from the city. Having fled to Kostroma, Dmitry turned to Tokhtamysh for help, and with the help of his troops captured Moscow back.
    That such a reality was this story ...
    1. Luga
      Luga 12 September 2013 19: 31 New
      +3
      After reading your message, I don't even know whether to laugh or cry. But I will put a "minus" all the same, suddenly someone else will read and take this text seriously ... If I misunderstood you and the text was written as a joke, I apologize. But in this case, put the appropriate icons, please.
    2. rexby63
      rexby63 12 September 2013 22: 12 New
      0
      Kyrgyz cones?
  28. Black
    Black 12 September 2013 19: 42 New
    +3
    Quote: Aryan

    Take care of the pancake homeland dear Russians !!!


    From the heart!!!
    Take care.
    The author of the article is a teacher of the university. Universities, in order to survive (or even LIVE), have become completely illegible in their connections ... Well now! These guys in 60-80 years the way to vocational school, and to the machine, to take care of the Motherland. And they receive a "higher" education.
    1. Hulk
      Hulk 12 September 2013 19: 54 New
      0
      Quote: Chen
      After reading your message, I don’t even know whether to laugh or cry.

      Connoisseur of official history. Go to the library better. This is to whom the official propaganda brainwashed not 100.
      Or drink a bottle of beer with a ram if you have already gotten your brains out of control. It might help.
      1. Luga
        Luga 12 September 2013 21: 05 New
        +4
        So, just in case, the Christian name of Jagaila is Vladislav, he was baptized in the framework of the Union of Krev in 1385. For less read Shirokorad and similar authors. About greedy, cowardly and narrow-minded Rurikovich in comparison with the brave honest and noble princes of Poland and Lithuania, this is with him, in my opinion. Although, maybe there are others, you will not re-read everyone. Read more, think, analyze and do not take a word for anyone, only then you will have your own, reasoned, suffering opinion. In the meantime, it’s not interesting with you.
    2. rexby63
      rexby63 12 September 2013 22: 23 New
      +2
      82nd military unit in the Krasnoyarsk Territory. Saturday. Classes for her, for political training. The company commander asks the soldier where the capital of the potential enemy is located, Washington. The fighter is out. The zampolit is already interested and asks to show the capital of our Motherland on the map. The fighter almost faints from intellectual overstrain, but not only can not show the capital, but also the Motherland. The platoon is jubilant, though not for long. After the victim of political tyranny sits down, this "beast" forces everyone to come up and show Moscow on the map. As a result, out of 28 people, only FOUR of 28, yesterday's graduates of the SOVIET school, correctly oriented themselves on the map.
      You, gentlemen, when you begin to scold realities, scold the investigation, not the cause, likening to eccentrics with Bolotnaya, for whom there is one culprit of our existence in the world - our president. In fact, the reasons lie a little further.
      1. rereture
        rereture 12 September 2013 23: 04 New
        +2
        I support, and then these people started families, they got kids who also can’t navigate on the map or know history. After all, children first of all take an example from their parents, for example, this often happens when a child comes to his father or mother for help with remote sensing, and they answer him, but we don’t know, we didn’t remember at school for a long time, or for example, a child and asks: mom (dad) why is history needed? Why are we studying it? Will it come in handy for us in life? Not all parents will be able to answer these questions, especially those that cannot show the capital of their country.
  29. RoTTor
    RoTTor 12 September 2013 23: 06 New
    +1
    The natural result of the fact that since 1985, since the accession of Christ-seller Gorbachev, everything Soviet has been watered with mud, everything has been turned upside down, that the heroes of the youth who want "everything at once!" became killers and prostitutes, belenki, Vlasovs, Bandera, Petliura and other scum. Today's students are already the second lost generation - the children of those who studied in "perestroika" and "de-democratization".
    But with this power - no changes for the better can be expected _ information policy for their fellow citizens is built according to the canons of special propaganda against an enemy country. or traitors rule all information policy and propaganda, and on the "TV box" or false scientists or re-baptized "overthrowers" from yesterday's regular partagitators like Pravdyuk. It's good that in Russia at least there is a TV = channel "Culture".
  30. Albert1988
    Albert1988 12 September 2013 23: 13 New
    +3
    The author complains that modern students / schoolchildren do not learn and do not know history? The problem is that they don't know and teach ANYTHING! I am convinced of this myself: when at Moscow State University, 5th year students do not want to teach special courses in their department! What is especially necessary for their future profession! And even more so in schools: in my school, which was considered the best in the city, in my graduation class there were a lot of people who knew absolutely NOTHING in any subject, it is good that at least they knew how to count and solve mathematical problems (apparently, the parents simply hammered that without this will not be able to work in the bank). So the problem, unfortunately, is much broader - this is a total ignorance of almost all subjects studied in all grades, when people hardly count and write with gross errors, and you say - history!
  31. nnz226
    nnz226 12 September 2013 23: 41 New
    0
    Another link to China. I quote Kun-Tzu (Confucius): "A person who does not foresee the future is awaiting failure and misfortune in him. STUDY THE HISTORY TO PREVENT THE FUTURE!" Like this. If the young do not know what June 22 is, I'm afraid they will have something similar to 1941, only even worse ...
  32. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 12 September 2013 23: 42 New
    +1
    History was originally, is and unfortunately will be a prostitute for politics ...
    BUT!
    There must be unshakable, dogmatic, patriotic (in the good sense of the word) constants, then the KAYUK to this historical people!
  33. Mature naturalist
    Mature naturalist 13 September 2013 01: 03 New
    -1
    After reading Fomenko and Nosovsky, he concluded for himself in “far-fetched” a multitude of events described in traditional history. A search on the web made me doubt the "millions of years" of the existence of civilization.
    But the textbook, of course, is needed. And two are better: traditional and alternative.
    1. Taoist
      Taoist 13 September 2013 12: 09 New
      0
      Well, if so then smoke "Decree on the abolition of history" http://posov.com/publ/1-1-0-1

      But seriously, in fact, you can come up with (with varying degrees of reliability) any "alternative" - ​​that's just to history as a science it will have absolutely nothing to do. And the question, first of all, is what kind of "super task" any such "alternative" pursues. History is not a set of facts (all the more so since many of them are unverifiable or doubtful), but a certain basis, a pivot, on which the personality is built as part of the general.
      1. Mature naturalist
        Mature naturalist 13 September 2013 19: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Taoist
        After all, history is not a set of facts (especially since many of them are unverifiable or doubtful) but a certain basis, a core, the foundation on which the personality is built as part of the general.

        What you wrote is called "ideology", but history is just a set of facts. And already the ideologues interpret them as it is more convenient.
  34. unknown
    unknown 15 September 2013 17: 52 New
    0
    Not ideology, but historiography is part of historical science, in which various points of view on certain events are studied in great detail
    The subject is very serious.
    Studied at historical faculties as an independent discipline.
    As a rule, the first time does not give up, the second too.