Military Review

The armored tank industry ensured Ukraine’s breakthrough in the global arms market

112
The armored tank industry ensured Ukraine’s breakthrough in the global arms marketDuring the press conference “Assessing the potential of Ukrainian armored vehicles and export opportunities tanks Oplot and BTR-3 and BTR-4 armored personnel carriers, Director of the Army, Conversion and Disarmament Research Center, Valentin Badrak, and Ukrainian General Designer of Armored Vehicles in 1990-2011, Mikhail Borisyuk noted that the development of armored combat vehicles in the country ensured Ukraine’s breakthrough in the world market weapons. During the event, a new book by Mikhail Borisyuk “Armor is Strong” was presented, which details the issues of creating Oplot tanks and armored personnel carriers of the BTR-3 and BTR-4 families, light armored vehicles “Dozor”, as well as ideas for the development of the industry.



In his speech, V. Badrak noted the following.

“Ukrainian defense industry has increased to 12% the share of finished products from the total volume of its products and services.
The Ukrainian military industry traditionally produces a mass of components for weapons and military equipment, as well as repairing and modernizing them.

But if earlier the number of finished products was, according to various estimates, no more than 4 - 6% of the total output of products and services, today the share of final weapons and military equipment in the total product range has increased no less than to 12%. It is important that a significant part of the new final nomenclature of armaments and military equipment is made up of domestic armored vehicles, developed by the A.A. Morozov in those years when he was led by Mikhail Borisyuk. These are the Oplot tank and armored personnel carriers of the BTR-3 and BTR-4 families, as well as light armored vehicles.

It is indicative that Ukraine is entrenched in the global arms market with new models of armored vehicles.

In particular, today the Ukrainian tank "Oplot" buys Thailand. BTR-3E armored personnel carriers are bought by Thailand, BTR-4 is bought by Iraq and Kazakhstan. And the fact that last month Poland acquired a license for the assembly of light armored vehicles "Dozor-B", in practice, confirmed the export potential of these machines. Ukrainian armored construction went to this result more than one day - even earlier, armored personnel carriers upgraded by Ukraine bought the UAE, considered the possibility of purchasing Macedonia, and Turkey and Greece considered the possibility of acquiring Ukrainian tanks with a NATO-made gun. There were excellent developments in the industry in the region of Latin America.

Speaking about the assessment of the potential of Ukrainian armored construction and export capabilities of Oplot tanks and BTR-3 and BTR-4 armored personnel carriers, the possibility of supplying such equipment to traditional partners of Ukraine in Southeast Asia, Africa and Latin America should be noted. Already today, samples of Ukrainian armored vehicles successfully compete with European machines, confidently bypass Russian tenders, although the school for creating light armored vehicles in the country developed from scratch. And with some improvements, Ukrainian armored vehicles can easily replace NATO armored combat vehicles in countries that do not produce armored vehicles.

Today we can state: the export potential of the domestic armored industry has grown significantly over the past five years. According to the TSIAKR estimates, if the development conditions are created for the industry, the industry is able to consistently supply up to 200 armored vehicles for export annually. The further development of armored vehicles is unambiguously connected with the creation of conditions for entering into the international clubs (teams) of developers and manufacturers of armored vehicles. This is inevitably associated with an increase in state defense orders, because the rules of the game require the purchase of such equipment in the interests of their own law enforcement agencies. ”

Mikhail Borisyuk, under whose leadership the Oplot tank was developed, as well as the BTR-3 and BTR-4 armored personnel carriers, the Dozor-type light armored vehicles, noted the following.

“In Soviet times, we were one of the first, 30 years ago, to use automatic loader in tanks. They are still working successfully. Moreover, a number of countries - including the United States, Britain, Germany - do not have automatic loaders in tanks, and their crew consists of four people. And we have three for a long time! Now it is necessary to intensify research on the possibility of reducing the crew to two people.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the production of light armored vehicles was concentrated on the territory of the Russian Federation. Now Ukraine has independently brought to the international market a number of samples of its own armored personnel carriers.

In order for the development and production of armored combat vehicles in Ukraine to develop and progress, it seems to me that a number of important conditions should be fulfilled.

The first to return the industry independence. Do not transfer it to commercial structures. I mean state administration, in which the head of the enterprise is accountable in his strategy, including the fulfillment of the state defense order, development work, but will have all the levers of managing the economic structure.

The enterprises responsible for the defense of the country should not be privatized.

Enterprises should be interested, and for this to be ensured the rights of self-marketing of their products. Of course, under the strict control of the state in the face of the State Service for Export Control or another state structure. That is, it is not about loosening state control, it’s about the fact that an enterprise should not be powerless.

There are opinions that specially authorized structures, such as GC Ukrspetsexport, have more opportunities to promote technology, since they have extensive marketing services, and sometimes representative offices abroad. But no one says that the special exporter does not sell products of defense enterprises. I just propose to legalize, so to speak, the double right: a special exporter finds a customer, the company acts according to the rules of a special exporter; the enterprise itself finds the customer itself and sells the products under the supervision of the controlling authorities.

The lack of material interest of the team is a dead end approach. Today, the KMDB and the Malyshev Plant turned out to be virtually without rights! They have no prospects for development! There is no program to create a promising technology. Today, for the first time in 20 years, we see an outflow of personnel.
For the success of joint efforts of developers, manufacturers and special exporters, it is absolutely necessary to participate in the discussion of the contract conditions on armored vehicles of the management of the KMDB and the Malyshev Plant. And to have defining voices in such positions as terms of delivery of equipment, volumes and order of service, definition of composition and volume of the supplied documentation and a number of similar questions.

As for commission payments, I would suggest that this position be consolidated at the legislative level. Then, the issues of commerce, which start to prevail over the development of the school itself, will not be a brake on promoting new ideas, introducing new technologies, modernizing the main production assets.

I consider it unacceptable to revise the terms of the contract in the course of its implementation - as a result of such actions during the implementation of the Iraqi contract, additional risks arose, including the breakdown of the contract itself.

Of course, in addition to the above requirements, there should ideally be state support in the form of state defense order.

The defense industry cannot be used as a cash cow.

If we talk about the direction in which new tanks and lightweight armored vehicles can develop, I would emphasize the following.

The world is on the verge of another leap in the development of combat platforms in general. And it has a direct relationship with armored vehicles. On the one hand, I have already noted the need for the action of each combat unit in a common, unified information field. This applies not only to, say, the close connection between the battalion commander and a separate tank, but the connection of the tank with all types of equipment participating in this battle. That is, the development of information processing systems, data transmission, automated control, together with the computerization of the technology itself, will obviously come out on top. But not only. I am convinced that the possibility of remote control will also be achieved soon. This will not be a tank, but some kind of tool that will perform specific tasks. It is not necessary that specialized armored vehicles, created to destroy certain types of targets, displace existing models of armored vehicles. It seems to me that the combined use of such means of warfare can be quite lengthy. But it is also clear that there is a steady desire to reduce the crew. By the way, in Soviet times, we were one of the first - 30 years ago - to use automatic loader in tanks. They are still working successfully. Moreover, a number of countries - including the United States, Britain, Germany - do not have automatic loaders in tanks, and their crew consists of four people. And we have three for a long time! Now it is necessary to intensify research on the possibility of reducing the crew to two people. In general, the Ukrainian developers of armored vehicles should not remain aloof from the development of the prospects for the main areas - robotization, intellectualization, and computerization of equipment. ”
Originator:
http://www.defense-ua.com/
112 comments
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  1. Nukem999
    Nukem999 12 September 2013 15: 52
    27
    ..........................
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 12 September 2013 16: 38
      +9
      Quote: http://www.defense-ua.com/
      Today, samples of Ukrainian armored vehicles successfully compete with European vehicles, confidently bypass Russian tenders

      Not an article, but some kind of holivar. What happened? Is the ship with "rusty and cracked" armored personnel carriers for Iraq unloaded?
      1. Nukem999
        Nukem999 12 September 2013 16: 59
        0
        .................
      2. PLO
        PLO 12 September 2013 17: 00
        +2
        everything is still muddy and incomprehensible there

        In India, a ship with Ukrainian BTR-4 was arrested

        According to the Vesti.ua resource, the notorious SE Pacifica ship was arrested in India, with 42 Ukrainian BTR-4s on board, destined for Iraq.

        "Kharkov armored personnel carriers, which six months ago were supposed to be adopted by the Iraqi army, became prisoners in India. The price of returning them to Ukraine or Baghdad is half a million dollars.

        The international contract that the Malyshev plant in Kharkov had been dreaming of for so long turned into an international scandal. Instead of a victorious march through the deserts of Iraq, 42 lightweight armored personnel carriers [meaning armored personnel carriers-4] drifted for three months in the Persian Gulf, and are now arrested off the coast of India.

        Recall that at the end of March, military vehicles arrived at the Odessa port, and on April 26 a dry cargo ship landed off the coast of Iraq, but they did not let him into the port: during the time that the ship was on its way, there was a change of power, as a result, our armored personnel carriers refused to unload on the mainland. “In Odessa port, the cars were accepted by a commission, which included representatives of Iraq,” Alexander Varvarenko, managing director of the Odessa company Varamar, which leased the Singapore vessel Se Pacifica, told Vesti. “But unloading did not begin in Iraq.” The pretext was a defect in the case. Long days of negotiations resulted in three months of downtime in the Persian Gulf. The vessel was never unloaded, and it went to the shores of India to unload a batch of Ukrainian metal. ” Here, the Indians made claims, to which the goods, which is about 70 tons of metal, were late for almost three months. The ultimatum of the metal customer threatens with large penalties, primarily for the shipowner. “Ukrainian military cargo has become a hostage. An Indian court has arrested the ship, they demand $ 000 of penalty from us, ”Varvarenko says. - The metal supplier says that we should resolve issues, but how can we do this? We were delayed only because the issue with armored personnel carriers was being resolved. ”

        There are no people willing to cover the damage to the Indian side, moreover, now the Iraqi side is ready to accept the armored personnel carriers as soon as possible, but when they will be able to leave the shores of India is unknown: if in the near future none of the parties is Ukroboronspecexport as a supplier of armored personnel carriers or a Ukrainian supplier - will not solve the issue, the entire cargo of the ship can be arrested and auctioned off to cover the costs. And the cost of one armored personnel carrier, according to our data, is up to a million dollars. "


        source
        http://bmpd.livejournal.com/612435.html
        1. Hunghuz
          Hunghuz 12 September 2013 19: 06
          0
          hi Shaw can do another Faina loaded with tanks from Odessa ....... ???
          1. elmi
            elmi 12 September 2013 19: 46
            +9
            The armored tank industry ensured Ukraine’s breakthrough in the global arms market

            I think that Ukraine’s breakthrough in armored vehicles will oddly positively affect the development of our already successful tank building and other armored vehicles in terms of competition. Soon, with the release of armata, we will significantly break ahead in tank building.
            1. Kars
              Kars 12 September 2013 20: 01
              +7
              Quote: elmi
              Soon, with the release of Armata, we will significantly break ahead in tank building.

              Well, with the release of Armata, you can break out in tank building and somewhere, but you’ll vryatly expose Armata to the foreign market, so what, and she is not a competitor in the armored market. We have more competitors for used leopards that are written off from declining armies of Europe.
              1. elmi
                elmi 12 September 2013 20: 30
                +7
                Quote: Kars
                Well, with the release of Armata you can in tank building and somewhere, when you break out. But you will vryatli expose Armata to the foreign market

                It would be nice if you didn’t put it on the market any longer until your army is enough on satisfactory tanks. Put the tank on the market, I’m sure there will be analogues soon, the same China will be sure to get the armata, then after studying and copying the Chinese armata will appear. keep as long as possible.
                Quote: Kars
                therefore what what, and she is not a competitor in the armored market.

                So far yes, but where is the guarantee that the operating time of the armata will not appear on the subsequent versions of the upgraded t-90? And if they appear then I do not think that the stronghold will compete with the new t-90.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 12 September 2013 20: 50
                  +2
                  Quote: elmi
                  It would be nice not to put on the market longer

                  Well, this is at least up to 2020 while I think the price of the monopolist-UVZ will be gold.
                  Quote: elmi
                  So far yes, but where is the guarantee that the operating time of the armata will not appear on subsequent versions of the upgraded t-90?

                  How this will be different for your clone-Chinese fear.
                  Quote: elmi
                  if they appear then I don’t think that the stronghold will be a competitor to the new t-90

                  We’ll see, see, even the T-90MS / AM are not even close to the competitors of BM Oplot.
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Well, share your knowledge on Armata, you all know.
                  Why do you need to know something, could include elementary logic, but it is not fate that is visible.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 12 September 2013 21: 12
                    +6
                    Quote: Kars
                    Why do you need to know something, could include elementary logic, but it is not fate that is visible.

                    So say "I don't know nichrome, I'm just showing off."
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 12 September 2013 21: 18
                      +5
                      Quote: Setrac
                      So say "I don't know nichrome, I'm just showing off."

                      What are you))) you want to say that I am WRONG, and Armata will immediately be exported)))
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 September 2013 21: 29
                        +8
                        Quote: Kars
                        What are you))) you want to say that I am WRONG, and Armata will immediately be exported)))

                        I want to say that you are not RIGHT stating the uncompetitiveness of a machine that you know nothing about.
                        And yes, it will be exported, if there are customers, they will make an export version.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 12 September 2013 21: 41
                        +3
                        Quote: Setrac
                        I want to say that you are not RIGHT stating that the machine is uncompetitive

                        You don’t know how to read? Or you don’t have enough mind to understand what is written?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, with the release of Armata, you can break out in tank building and somewhere, but you’ll vryatly expose Armata to the foreign market, so what, and she is not a competitor in the armored market. We have more competitors for used leopards that are written off from declining armies of Europe.

                        Reread again, and preferably twice.
                        You may understand that Armata will in principle not be a competitor to the tank market.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        And yes, it will be exported, if there are customers, they will make an export version.

                        Well, in the year that way 2025, and this despite the fact that she’ll be affordable for anyone except the monarchies of the Persian Gulf.
                      3. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 September 2013 22: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        You don’t know how to read? Or you don’t have enough mind to understand what is written?

                        You do not know how to write? Not smart enough to articulate your thoughts?
                        Quote: Kars
                        You may understand that Armata will in principle not be a competitor to the tank market.

                        This conclusion from YOUR words does not follow.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Reread again, and preferably twice.

                        Rewrite again, and preferably twice, but your words will not become true from this.
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 12 September 2013 22: 26
                        +2
                        Quote: Setrac
                        You do not know how to write? Not smart enough to articulate your thoughts?

                        Why didn’t I understand anything after repeated reading? Well, I'm sorry, I’m not going to your level of opus.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        This conclusion from YOUR words does not follow.

                        Well, with your level of development - it may very well be. Your logic is completely absent, one reflection.
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Rewrite again, and preferably twice, but your words will not become true from this

                        So, all the same, you want to say that Armata will be put on the market in 2013-2014 and the export modification will be available at the price of Eritrea and Somalia?
                      5. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 September 2013 22: 47
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        Why didn’t I understand anything after repeated reading? Well, I'm sorry, I’m not going to your level of opus.

                        No matter how many times I read, your words will not become smarter from this. Here the problem is with the writer, not the reader.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, with your level of development - it may very well be. Your logic is completely absent, one reflection.

                        My logic (or reflection - it doesn’t matter) tells me that you don’t know anything, but simply drive the blizzard out of your anti-Russian goals.
                        Quote: Kars
                        So, all the same, you want to say that Armata will be put on the market in 2013-2014 and the export modification will be available at the price of Eritrea and Somalia?

                        This is not excluded, although unlikely. Once again, you do not know anything about the timing, nor about the price.
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 12 September 2013 22: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        not in the reader.

                        In the reader in the reader, some people immediately understood a vet, unlike you)))
                        Quote: Setrac
                        My logic (or reflection - it doesn’t matter) tells me that you don’t know anything, but simply drive the blizzard out of your anti-Russian goals.

                        It’s not you that the campaign really lagged behind in development - I’m not discussing technical characteristics, but general concepts, and you’re simply interested in looking for anti-Russian targets)))
                        Quote: Setrac
                        This is not excluded, although unlikely. Once again, you do not know anything about the timing, nor about the price.

                        Wow, it is possible.
                        In time - yes, it’s easy, any person who is more or less familiar with the subject can predict them.
                        And the price))) at least you don’t have enough intelligence that such a tank as Armata (well, if they really make a tank ahead of the competition) can’t be cheap, and then UVZ is a monopolist, but it’s getting ready for privatization. But where do you get the logic.

                        By the way, I was wondering how old are you? 15-16?
                      7. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 September 2013 23: 06
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        By the way, I was wondering how old are you? 15-16?

                        I’ll put a tick for you. Temporarily
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 12 September 2013 23: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: Setrac
                        I’ll put a tick for you. Temporarily

                        ???????
                      9. Setrac
                        Setrac 12 September 2013 23: 45
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        ???????

                        I checked the profile - born in the USSR, which means that I am over 22 years old.
                      10. Kars
                        Kars 12 September 2013 23: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: Setrac
                        I checked the profile - born in the USSR, which means that I am more than 22 years old

                        Yeah, a bad case, I thought I might still outgrow it.
                      11. Setrac
                        Setrac 13 September 2013 00: 07
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        Yeah, a bad case, I thought I might still outgrow it.

                        Harder than you think wink I 36 years.
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 13 September 2013 11: 11
                        +1
                        Quote: Setrac
                        I 36 years.

                        Yes, it’s already too late to euthanize.
  • elmi
    elmi 12 September 2013 21: 18
    +7
    Quote: Kars
    How this will be different for your clone-Chinese fear.

    I do not have a clone-Chinese fear, as you say, but a healthy precaution, in the light of the "love of the Chinese to lick up advanced technology" as an example of the story of the SU-27. if you are not afraid of the Chinese cloning your strongholds why don't you sell the assembly license in China? It's just that we have already stepped on a rake and I don't want to step a second time. As they say, if you burn yourself in milk, you will blow on the water.
    Quote: Kars
    We’ll see, see, even the T-90MS / AM are not even close to the competitors of BM Oplot.

    Let's see))) each sandpiper praises its swamp.
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 September 2013 21: 44
      +3
      Quote: elmi
      if you are not afraid of cloning your strongholds by the Chinese then why don’t you sell the assembly license in China?

      Well, they didn’t ask, they are completely satisfied with the Type 99 which is superior to the declared data of the CLAIMED capabilities of possible opponents.

      But Ukraine has been selling tank engines to China for many years, while China does not copy it, but continues to order it in Kharkov.
      Quote: elmi
      Let's see))) each sandpiper praises its swamp.

      There’s even nothing to watch, especially considering that the production of T-90MS
      AM is not planned.
      1. elmi
        elmi 12 September 2013 22: 11
        +4
        Quote: Kars
        Well, they didn’t ask, they are completely satisfied with the Type 99 which is superior to the declared data of the CLAIMED capabilities of possible opponents.

        I am not a specialist in tanks, but it seems to me that the Chinese has the only advantage over other tanks in the device: Laser counteraction complex ZM-87 http://btvt.narod.ru/4/99.htm Here is an excerpt from the article: When you receive an exposure signal tank with an enemy’s laser beam, the warning system generates a signal to turn the tower towards the detected source, then a low-power laser beam is turned on, which determines the exact location of the target, after which the beam power instantly increases to a critical level and incapacitates optical means or organs of vision of the adversary’s operator. It is known that earlier the Chinese side demonstrated portable versions of such laser weapons. For example, in 1995 at an exhibition in Manila. There it was designated as ZM-87 (presumably can damage the human eye at a distance of up to 10 km). Judging by how the laser installation of the tank was induced in a vertical plane, it is likely that it can be used as a means of destroying low-flying helicopters.
        Quote: Kars
        But Ukraine has been selling tank engines to China for many years, while China does not copy it, but continues to order it in Kharkov.

        We also supply military aircraft with the Chinese. They can not copy it in any way, as a result of which they are forced to order in Russia.
      2. Kars
        Kars 12 September 2013 22: 28
        +1
        Quote: elmi
        but it seems to me that the only advantage over others

        There is quite a lot of things, for interest - a new armor-piercing shell, with very high CLAIMED characteristics, and so on.
        Quote: elmi
        We also supply combat aircraft in Chinese

        Then your cautiousness is perplexing - in theory, Armata will be irreproducible anywhere except the Urals.
      3. elmi
        elmi 12 September 2013 22: 42
        +2
        Quote: Kars
        Then your cautiousness is perplexing - in theory, Armata will be irreproducible anywhere except the Urals.

        It would be nice, but they still manage to copy something, the Chinese are good students, as you can see only the engines and maybe some other equipment can not be copied, but otherwise the whole world is already seeing progress. They’re already flying into space (of course, our help) So I think our leadership will not give a chance in approaching a competitor.
      4. Setrac
        Setrac 12 September 2013 22: 48
        0
        Quote: Kars
        Then your cautiousness is perplexing - in theory, Armata will be irreproducible anywhere except the Urals.

        It is not possible to copy completely, but some ideas can be borrowed.
    2. elmi
      elmi 12 September 2013 22: 33
      +2
      Quote: Kars
      There’s even nothing to watch, especially considering that the production of T-90MS
      AM is not planned.

      Here is an excerpt from the article: Ignoring disputes and criticism, the Russian Ministry of Defense decided in the 2011 year to stop purchasing new T-90 tanks. This decision was explained as follows. Currently, a completely new main tank is being developed (based on the Armata armored platform) and it will appear in the coming years. Therefore, the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, evaluating the total number of armored vehicles and its condition, does not see the point in continuing to purchase new equipment. As a result, in the coming years, new tanks of existing models will not be purchased, but at the same time, existing equipment will gradually undergo repairs and modernization.
      From the article: http://topwar.ru/24959-neosnovnoy-boevoy-tank-t-90.html
      Why do we need to produce t-90 if, according to 2012, we have more than 500 units of all modifications of t-90 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D2-90
      And on the way armata, here armature and we will massively purchase in the troops.
    3. Kars
      Kars 12 September 2013 22: 39
      +2
      Quote: elmi
      And on the way armata, here armature and we will massively purchase in the troops.

      and what? What will be purchased for myself by the RF Ministry of Defense is not particularly interesting for me. BM Oplot did not count on this market.
      As I basically do not see the export potential of Almaty in the next 10-15 years. The only one is India, but it will be even good - maybe Pakistan will decide to either upgrade existing tanks or order new tanks, and the chance to participate in that contract is with Kharkov will not be small.
    4. elmi
      elmi 12 September 2013 22: 49
      +5
      Quote: Kars
      As I basically do not see the export potential of Almaty in the coming 10-15 years.

      If the armata will be ahead of all tanks of the world by 10-15 years, then I will not export it for your approval. But for export, continue to release new versions of the t-90
    5. Kars
      Kars 12 September 2013 22: 59
      +1
      Quote: elmi
      releases of new t-90 modifications

      Well, they’ll be a real stronghold for BM Strongholds. All their chances are debt cancellation by Russia, allocation of loans for the purchase, well, political pressure
    6. elmi
      elmi 12 September 2013 23: 13
      +5
      Quote: Kars
      Well, they are BM Stronghold real competitors will not be

      I see you are the same patriot of your country as I am my own, we are all patriots, we praise our equipment and criticize someone else's. I’m sure living in Russia you would be on our side)
      Quote: Kars
      .All their chances are debt cancellation by Russia, allocation of loans for the purchase, well, and political pressure

      I won’t go into politics)
    7. Kars
      Kars 12 September 2013 23: 36
      +1
      Quote: elmi
      I am sure living in Russia you would be on our side)

      I don’t know - your side has poheril the best tank, what can I do.
      Quote: elmi
      I won’t go into politics)

      That's just the arms trade and politics very rarely go apart.
      Quote: evil hamster
      Oga score on the 1000-320 scoreboard, continue about will not be competitors, very interesting and funny.

      Well, yes, the main buyer, India, which had no special choice, the T-72 production / assembly plant was built during the Soviet Union, and the remaining operators were all seized by something — Algeria had written off debts, Azerbaijan was intimidated by Azerbaijan and so on.
    8. elmi
      elmi 12 September 2013 23: 58
      +3
      Quote: Kars
      I don’t know - your side has poheril the best tank, what can I do.

      You mean t-95? aka “195 object”? What to answer ... I myself regret that they didn’t take the ready tank into service. Perhaps the leadership didn’t have the money to order, then those days were still ... Let's hope that the armata will compensate everything.
      Quote: Kars
      That's just the arms trade and politics very rarely go apart.

      Each country reflects its interests. Who knows, if we were in one state including Ukraine, perhaps the 2 t-90 tank and stronghold would be sold to the market. And the armata would be supplied to its troops.
    9. Kars
      Kars 13 September 2013 11: 08
      +1
      Quote: elmi
      You mean t-95?

      There is no reference to the T-80, and the rejection of its modernization in favor of the T-72
      Quote: elmi
      Who knows, if we were in one state including Ukraine, maybe the 2 t-90 tank and the stronghold would be sold to the market

      Well, now in Russia tanks are building three design bureaus UVZ Leningrad and Omsk, right?
    10. elmi
      elmi 13 September 2013 21: 32
      +2
      Quote: Kars
      Well, now in Russia tanks are building three design bureaus UVZ Leningrad and Omsk, right?

      I myself regret that in Russia it turns out 1 is a monopolist for the production of tanks. In the USSR there was competition between the design bureaus. It’s good to at least have the opportunity to compete with a neighbor with Ukraine.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 13 September 2013 02: 18
    +1
    Hello kars!
    I would like to know yours about the Korean tank! How easy is it to operate and maintain?
  • Kars
    Kars 13 September 2013 11: 10
    +2
    Quote: Yarbay
    I would like to know yours about the Korean tank!

    The opinion is only speculative. But I think it’s simple in operation and maintenance, but it’s expensive. Most of the units are worked out on American and German tanks, I also think that everything about the black panther is technologically advanced, but even more expensive.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 12 September 2013 23: 16
    +2
    Oga score on the 1000-320 scoreboard, continue about will not be competitors, very interesting and funny.
  • elmi
    elmi 12 September 2013 23: 31
    +4
    Quote: evil hamster
    Oga score on the 1000-320 scoreboard, continue about will not be competitors, very interesting and funny.

    Long time did not communicate with you) what made you laugh?
  • bask
    bask 12 September 2013 23: 37
    +1
    Quote: elmi
    about 1000-320, keep on pro will not be competitors

    Hamster, elmi hi good evening.
    Article, political. Cheers patriotic.
    Hamster, what’s this. 1000-350?
  • elmi
    elmi 12 September 2013 23: 42
    +4
    Greetings to bask. I’m also wondering what made the evil hamster laugh and what’s at the expense of it. We had a long discussion with him.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 12 September 2013 23: 42
    +3
    Good evening, tanks. 1000 T90 exported, which by no means can be competitors 320 T84 exported.
    That the article is clear agitation is clear, I’m not in dispute for the sake of it, purely from the squalor mood smile
  • bask
    bask 12 September 2013 23: 58
    +1
    Quote: evil hamster
    , purely from the squalor mood

    Therefore you and ,, angry ,, am Hamster. (Joke)
    For a long time not to be seen on the site, those interesting no?
    You always have an original point of view. With you, it is interesting to discuss.
    Quote: elmi
    I see you are the same patriot of my country as I am my own, we are all patriots

    Well said elmi. I must be a patriot I agree to all 100%, but not a patriot.
    But the article is real, nothing.
  • elmi
    elmi 13 September 2013 00: 13
    +3
    Quote: bask
    Well said elmi. I must be a patriot I agree to all 100%, but not a patriot.
    But the article is real, nothing.

    Thank. It’s difficult to call me a patriot, in the light of my separate criticism of the authorities on some issues, especially the reluctance of the Ministry of Defense to produce heavy tanks, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and other armored vehicles, we talked with you about this topic.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 13 September 2013 00: 36
    +1
    Yes, I do not stuff at times, this afternoon was for example. But there’s just not enough time for the car, the idiot’s dream came true that year he bought land, this summer he began construction with all the consequences.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 12 September 2013 23: 44
    0
    Greetings, explained below a little.
    UPD. in fact, it turned out a little higher smile
  • family tree
    family tree 12 September 2013 22: 00
    +4
    Quote: Kars
    We’ll see, see, even the T-90MS / AM are not even close to the competitors of BM Oplot.

    The controversial statement is generally that.
    In the photo, it seems to me, or in fact the VLD has become closer to the horizon and the NLD has increased?
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 September 2013 22: 30
      +1
      Quote: perepilka
      The controversial statement is generally that.

      But not very.
      Quote: perepilka
      In the photo, it seems to me, or in fact the VLD has become closer to the horizon and the NLD has increased?

      VLD has always sought to make closer to the horizon, not for nothing that the angles at 68 degrees on Soviet tanks.
      NLD is not very scary, besides it is not noticeable to me personally.
      1. family tree
        family tree 13 September 2013 00: 47
        +2
        Quote: Kars
        VLD has always sought to make closer to the horizon, not for nothing that the angles at 68 degrees on Soviet tanks.
        NLD is not very scary, besides it is not noticeable to me personally.

        Just IS-122 suffered, which with a straightened VLD, I’m not talking about the early ones. The KVK36 L56 and its AT counterpart in artillery clapped the NLD without problems, if you look at the photo of the IS-2, on the NLD, there are always tracks, for addition they hang. In the course of your bought on Abrams.
        But not very
        lol
      2. Kars
        Kars 13 September 2013 11: 14
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        Just IS-122

        Still FT-17 remembered
        Quote: perepilka
        In the course of your bought on Abrams.

        In general, the T-64 which gave such a memorable shape to the nasal armor parts of Soviet tanks appeared earlier than Abrams.
        Quote: perepilka
        lol

        wassat
      3. family tree
        family tree 13 September 2013 18: 15
        +1
        Compare.
        Kars, and 2A46 should be chrome plated and put on in a thermal case, but is it painted on your Oplot? And how many times will she shoot?
      4. Kars
        Kars 13 September 2013 20: 22
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        2A46 is supposed to be chrome plated and put on in a thermal case, but is it painted on your Oplot?

        Do you chrome the breech from the outside and put a thermal cover on it?
        Quote: perepilka
        And how many times will she shoot?

        ask on the Pakistan forum.
        Quote: perepilka
        Compare.

        Compare, I hope you can find out the DZ canopy?
      5. family tree
        family tree 13 September 2013 22: 24
        +1
        Well, roughly what I thought, the KMDBM was oriented towards the Abrams school, to close the VLD in the front and bury the NLD naked, I would not be surprised if the armor there was doubled in thickness. Can't you give me a side projection? It's very hot to see how the rollers have shifted. Kars, a tank is an attack, an aggression, you made an AT from an attack. Kars, Abrams as a PT is much more, you will be eaten. For me, an amateur, in love with tanks, a couple of photos were enough. Although, if Thailand thinks to sit out, let him order PETs. Only, defense never led to victory.
        Kars, the entire barrel is chrome-plated, outside, to transfer heat along the entire length, put on a thermal cover on top, to maintain uniform heating, the accuracy of the sight decreases by an order of magnitude, didn’t you know?
      6. Kars
        Kars 13 September 2013 22: 42
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        Well, roughly what I thought, the KMDB was oriented towards the Abrams school, to close the VLD in the front and to bury the NLD naked,

        Are you campaigning in tanks no boom boom? What is it to close the VLD in the windshield? How to bury NLD naked? Have you ever understood that the NLD is not visible on the screen like T-80U?
        Quote: perepilka
        Do not give the side projection

        I will give no question.
        Quote: perepilka
        Kars, a tank is an attack, aggression, you made a PT from the attack.

        Why?
        Quote: perepilka
        not, an amateur who was in love with tanks had a couple of photos

        In Google banned?
        Quote: perepilka
        Kars, the entire trunk is chrome plated,

        Really? And for some reason I thought that only the bore.
        Quote: perepilka
        outside, to transfer heat along the entire length, put on a thermal cover,

        And that you do not see him?
        Quote: perepilka
        decreases by an order of magnitude, didn't you know?

        I didn’t know that the thermal cover is not worth it,
      7. Kars
        Kars 13 September 2013 22: 44
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        KBTM on the Abrams school orientated itself, close the VLD

        We look at a photo of the usual T-80U
      8. Kars
        Kars 13 September 2013 22: 47
        +2
        Well, the photo from the T-90. By the way, is it visible how the trunk is in the casing and chromed?
      9. Kars
        Kars 13 September 2013 22: 52
        +2
        And a photo of the abrams just in case.
      10. family tree
        family tree 14 September 2013 17: 11
        +1
        Without cover
        Well, the photo from the T-90. By the way, is it visible how the trunk is in the casing and chromed?
        In a case
      11. Kars
        Kars 14 September 2013 18: 06
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        Without cover

        ))))))))))))) And what kind of rings are there on the barrel pipe?
        Quote: perepilka
        In a case

        And naturally there is no cover on the Oplot?
      12. Kars
        Kars 14 September 2013 18: 09
        +1
        ______________
      13. Kars
        Kars 14 September 2013 18: 11
        +1
        ________________
      14. family tree
        family tree 14 September 2013 20: 25
        +1
        Here you can see better. The gun is not sheathed, unlike the girl request
        Clickable
      15. Kars
        Kars 14 September 2013 20: 39
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        Here you can see better.

        What is visible?
        Quote: perepilka
        Pictures are foolishly taken

        In general, let's agree that the BM Oplot is equipped with a thermal jacket, or do not agree?
      16. family tree
        family tree 15 September 2013 00: 01
        +2
        Quote: Kars
        In general, let's agree that the BM Oplot is equipped with a thermal jacket, or do not agree?

        Kars, and 2A46 should be chrome plated and put on in a thermal case, but is it painted on your Oplot? And how many times will she shoot?
        This is from the post that started. wink Just questions. Then I read something that you tried to make trunks from drill pipes. Just understand, to your design bureau, Kharkov, well, with all due respect, after all, the leading one in the Union and all the best brains went there, and all three revolutions in tanks, T-34, T-44, and T-64, Kharkiv they didn’t care that there were 44 in the Urals, at that time they were working there with Morozov. Sadly, Kars, and insulting. It will be very painful if the design bureau is bent, simply, in the end, we will still be together, I would like to be alive. So somehow. hi No offense, Kars. I would like a hodovka on the side, so that the rollers could be seen, you can estimate the mass distribution, Not, if there is a booking scheme, then the hodovka on the side laughing
        ps And the Indians, along the way, love glitters, well, they can still hang beads on the tank. It seems that the nation is ancient, but like the Papuans, word of honor. request The removed thermal covers, they only saw them.
      17. Kars
        Kars 15 September 2013 00: 11
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        Just questions.

        Well, maybe simple ones. But did you understand the answers? Now do you know that they don’t put a thermo-case on the breech? Do you only chrome the bore and the chamber? Does the influence of Abrams cease to seem?
        Quote: perepilka
        Then I read something that you tried to make trunks from drill pipes.

        They didn’t try, but they do it at the factory where they produce drill pipes.
        Quote: perepilka
        bitterly, Kars, and insulting. It will hurt a lot if the design bureau is bent, just, in the end, we’ll still be together, I would like to be alive
        As for together, they vryatli, and if it happens, then Kharkov will be doomed, as before it, Omsk and Leningrad, are only several times worse.

        Quote: perepilka
        . I would like a hodovka on the side, so that the rollers are visible, you can estimate the mass distribution

        What is there to pretend to be?
      18. family tree
        family tree 15 September 2013 19: 47
        +1
        As for together, they vryatli, and if it happens, then Kharkov will be doomed, as before it, Omsk and Leningrad, are only several times worse.
        A pessimist, however. At one time, they did not believe in the collapse of the Union, but they destroyed it. Abrams was also done on a competitive basis, so one fig, we can’t get by with one design bureau, over time, it will be clear, especially since the tank building school, a unique one, does not look like anyone else, well, the Chinese really, but they pay more attention to external data give. If one design bureau remains, Tryndets will, throughout our tank building, weld, in their own juice, reveling in their oneness and originality, so hold on, with all your might!
      19. family tree
        family tree 15 September 2013 21: 54
        +1
        Kars, where there are trunks, two posts in a row, your lower ones, apparently. For 2004, the top is chromed. In general, the more reflective, the greater the heat transfer, the thermal cover from above and the uniform heating. Although it does not work out uniform, the top heats up more, plus wind, additional cooling, and the barrel takes away, and the sight, it does not respond to this. That’s why they chrome, the entire trunk is outside so that it gives heat over the entire surface, well, as the batteries are painted with silver, and the coat is on top, a cover in the sense to keep the heat for even heating, although I’m sure you know what I’m crucifying, well, let will remain, can anyone honor
      20. Kars
        Kars 15 September 2013 22: 00
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        For 2004, the top is chromed. In general, the more reflective the greater the heat transfer

        What? Reflective? Chrome barrel is not for that, and I don’t see where there is a photo with chrome. Repeat. Is it definitely not painting?
        Quote: perepilka
        Because chrome, the whole trunk is outside,

        Give a quote from where you read it.
      21. Kars
        Kars 15 September 2013 22: 04
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        Because chrome, the whole trunk is outside,

        We look at the website of the manufacturer
        2A46M for T-72, T-90 tanks
        2A46M-1 for the T-80U tank
        improved 125 mm tank gun models
        Compared with the 2A46 cannon of the T-72 tank, the range of actual firing at armored targets immediately increased by 1,5 times
        Provided for the use of a guided projectile 9M119M "Reflex"
        Provided visual control of the amount of fluid in the recuperator and pullback brakes
        The design of the connection of the barrel pipe with the breech allows its replacement without dismantling the tower
        In order to increase firing accuracy, a device is provided for automatic accounting of bending (CID) of the barrel in the FCS
        At the request of the customer, the barrel can be chromed.

        http://www.zavod9.com/?pid=10106
      22. family tree
        family tree 17 September 2013 10: 01
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        http://www.zavod9.com/?pid=10106

        And for that, thank you, huge!
  • Kars
    Kars 15 September 2013 22: 01
    +1
    Quote: perepilka
    . If one KB remains

    In general, you already have one KB left. In Ukraine, too - but we have a completely different situation.
  • family tree
    family tree 16 September 2013 14: 26
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: perepilka
    . If one KB remains

    In general, you already have one KB left. In Ukraine, too - but we have a completely different situation.

    In, we are competing with you so far, the school is one. wink
  • Setrac
    Setrac 12 September 2013 20: 35
    +6
    Quote: Kars
    Well, with the release of Armata, you can in tank construction and somewhere, when you break out. But you will vryatly put Armata on the foreign market, so what’s what, and she’s not a competitor in the armored market.

    Well, share your knowledge on Armata, you all know. bully
  • aspirin02
    aspirin02 12 September 2013 18: 53
    -9
    In vain you are so ... in vain ... I'm sure that they will only charge me for this comment, but because of your great power and political pressure, we sign our association ... Bo you! acted mainly not with understanding, but with threats, pressure and laughter from the outside, that’s the way, although you yourself claimed that we are one people, that is, draw conclusions ............ I don’t understand what it is everything?? X about xl s ... dumb and so on ... fat .......... You by your Bolsheviks are eschewing (in your words) from your people ............ in the end as for me a great future awaits you with the Caucasus and Khachis all the best, linto in recent months I completely changed my mind about the brotherly people ... live with blacks with corruption, etc. .......... all the best .. ... Oh great victorious .... insulting only for the elderly that blood was shed ................................. ..................
    1. Imperial
      Imperial 12 September 2013 19: 43
      -7
      Leave the old men alone, otherwise they nearly killed us in Lviv, now you regret it. Brodsky to your path. Dear Charles XII, the battle of Poltava,
      Thank God, lost. As said burr,
      "time will show Kuzkin's mother", ruins,
      bones of posthumous joy with a taste of Ukraine.
      That is not green-quit, spent by isotope, -
      the black-and-white flying over Konotop,
      tailored from the canvas, Canada has in store.
      It’s free without a cross, but you don’t need it.
      Goy you, a rushnyk, karbovanets, seeds in full shit!
      Not to us, I am a Nazi muzzle, am, accuse them of treason.
      Sami under the images of seventy years in Ryazan
      with drenched eyes lived as under Tarzana.
      Let’s tell them, the loud mother paused pause strictly:
      good riddance to you, and a rushnyk road!
      Come from us in zhupan, without saying - in a uniform,
      at the address in three letters, in all four
      side. Now let the hans in the hut in chorus
      with lyakhami put you on four bones, heathens.
      How to get into the loop - so together, choosing the path in more often,
      and to bite chicken from borsch alone is sweeter.
      Farewell, lived together - that's enough!
      Spit, perhaps, in Dnipro, maybe he will roll back,
      disdaining proudly us, as fast, jam-packed
      leather corners and age-old resentment.
      Do not remember dashingly. Your bread sky
      us, we choke on cake and kolob, not requiring.
      There is nothing to spoil the blood, to tear clothes on the chest.
      Ended, to know, love, since there was a midway.
      What to poke around in vain in ragged roots with a verb?
      You have given birth to earth, soil, chernozem with a podzol.
      Fully swing right, sew us one thing, another.
      This land does not give you, kavuns, peace.
      Oh yes Levada-steppe, stealing, a chestnut, a dumpling!
      Go ahead, lose more - more people than money.
      Somehow interrupt. And as for the tears from the eye -
      there is no decree on her, wait until another time.
      With God, eagles, Cossacks, hetmans, warriors!
      Only when you come and die, bulls,
      you will wheeze, scratching the edge of the mattress,
      lines from Alexander, and not nonsense of Taras.
    2. ATATA
      ATATA 12 September 2013 20: 16
      +5
      Quote: aspirin02
      In vain you are so ... in vain ... I am sure that they will only be mined for this comment, but because of your great power and political pressure, we are signing our association ....

      I’ll frostbite my mother’s evil

      When will you get rid of infantility?
      When you understand that separating from Russia, you separate yourself from yourself.
    3. O_RUS
      O_RUS 12 September 2013 20: 58
      11
      Quote: aspirin02
      It's a shame only for the elderly that shed blood ..


      Yes, it’s a shame for grandfathers ... for the collapse of the USSR. But in Russia, on May 9, they pay tribute to veterans ... and do not beat them as it was in Ukraine.
      1. aspirin02
        aspirin02 13 September 2013 03: 31
        -2
        Lord show me at least one video where they beat the veteran ??? What are you ??? Yet again !!! Fucking propaganda ... I myself was in Moscow on May 9 and saw what the ultra-right (ultras fans) were doing and could have made a creative video ... nonsense ...
    4. uri33079
      uri33079 12 September 2013 21: 30
      +5
      Please do not be offended by those who write nasty things about Ukraine. There are enough idiots everywhere. Perhaps these narrow-minded people have never been to Ukraine, to the maximum in Crimea. I have relatives in Kharkov, Sumy, Kiev, and also at the Bukrinsky bridgehead, in the village of Buchak, Cherkasy region buried my uncle sergeant 206 s.d. Cheap I.P. dead on 24.10.1943.
  • vjhbc
    vjhbc 12 September 2013 20: 18
    +6
    do you really think that if your brother’s cow is dead, then you’d better not confuse Kharkov with Lviv
    Quote: Nikolay S.
    Quote: http://www.defense-ua.com/
    Today, samples of Ukrainian armored vehicles successfully compete with European vehicles, confidently bypass Russian tenders

    Not an article, but some kind of holivar. What happened? Is the ship with "rusty and cracked" armored personnel carriers for Iraq unloaded?
  • Warrawar
    Warrawar 13 September 2013 01: 33
    +2
    Quote: Nikolai S.
    Not an article, but some kind of holivar. What happened? Is the ship with "rusty and cracked" armored personnel carriers for Iraq unloaded?

    The cargo was unloaded and arrested.
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 12 September 2013 17: 34
    28
    Ukrainians are doing everything they can. They don’t give up, don’t close the factories, don’t disperse personnel. The main thing is to overcome difficulties, and success will be. Glad for them!
    1. Fofan
      Fofan 12 September 2013 19: 16
      +8
      Quote: xetai9977
      Ukrainians are doing everything they can. They don’t give up, don’t close the factories, don’t disperse personnel. The main thing is to overcome difficulties, and success will be. Glad for them!

      why glad? you compare Belarus with Ukraine, for starters, then rejoice
      1. morpex
        morpex 12 September 2013 21: 06
        +1
        Quote: Fofan
        why glad? you compare Belarus with Ukraine, for starters, then rejoice

        And what to compare? Where there are thinking owners at the factory, everything is in order. Even in Ukraine. Take for example our LKMZ plant, Kharkov region. Belorussian trucks constantly leave loaded with all kinds of components and agricultural equipment, the Germans make orders. And yet, you can of course not to believe it, but Russia has signed a contract for the production of so much dazed APCs! I know what I’m saying and I’m responsible for my words, because my son works there. Today I met him from work and counted seven trucks with Belarusian numbers ...
      2. Alexander D.
        Alexander D. 12 September 2013 21: 24
        0
        Quote: Fofan
        Quote: xetai9977
        Ukrainians are doing everything they can. They don’t give up, don’t close the factories, don’t disperse personnel. The main thing is to overcome difficulties, and success will be. Glad for them!

        why glad? you compare Belarus with Ukraine, for starters, then rejoice

        Is that Belarus where the Russian oligarchs have almost taken over the MZKT, Peleng, Radar?
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 12 September 2013 21: 30
          +1
          Quote: Alexander D.
          Is that Belarus where the Russian oligarchs have almost taken over the MZKT, Peleng, Radar?

          And there they pay salaries on time?
          And the salary level there, how to compare with the Ukrainian?
          1. Alexander D.
            Alexander D. 12 September 2013 21: 48
            +1
            Quote: ATATA
            Quote: Alexander D.
            Is that Belarus where the Russian oligarchs have almost taken over the MZKT, Peleng, Radar?

            And there they pay salaries on time?
            And the salary level there, how to compare with the Ukrainian?

            As well as prices - in Ukraine they are lower than in Belarus.
        2. 31231
          31231 12 September 2013 21: 58
          +1
          And what is the difference in the oligarchs ?! They then do not think about the country of their citizenship, but cash proceeds.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 12 September 2013 19: 55
      +7
      Quote: xetai9977
      Ukrainians are doing everything they can. They don’t give up, don’t close the factories, don’t disperse personnel. The main thing is to overcome difficulties, and success will be. Glad for them!

      Pluses, for which it is not clear! Well done Ukrainians that they don’t give up, but without sales markets their tank industry will be bent and individual orders will not save the plant.
  • O_RUS
    O_RUS 12 September 2013 20: 44
    +1
    Khreshchatnik guards
  • a52333
    a52333 12 September 2013 15: 55
    12
    Valentin Badrak, I would not want to upset you, but I'm afraid, in EUROPA, everything you want to do and do not need to. Operating time, (after preliminary photocopying) will fall on dusty shelves. Hello to the government.
    1. morpex
      morpex 12 September 2013 21: 12
      -2
      Quote: a52333
      but I'm afraid, in EUROPE, all that you want to do and do is not needed. N

      And who told you that with the signing of the association we will be in Europe? All this association is a filkin letter! Decades will pass and during this time oh how everything can change ... By the way, when Ukraine entered the WTO, the same howl stood by Russia .. Well, where is Russia now? Also a member of the WTO!
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 12 September 2013 21: 23
        +2
        Quote: morpex
        By the way, when Ukraine joined the WTO, the same howl stood on the part of Russia .. Well, where is Russia now? Also a member of the WTO!

        You want to say that in 10 years Russia will join the EU? Just not as an outsider, but as one of the leaders?
        1. morpex
          morpex 12 September 2013 22: 02
          +3
          Quote: Setrac
          want to say that in 10 years Russia will join the EU?

          No ... I want to say that Ukraine will be more likely to be in the CU than in the European Union. I repeat - the association, this is another bullshit and divorce from Yanek ...

          Quote: Setrac
          Just not as an outsider, but as one of the leaders?

          Come down to earth dear. What kind of leadership of Russia are you talking about? You just started to get up from your knees after the collapse of the Union ... It will take more than a decade before Russia reaches the former power of the EMPIRE called the USSR! One thing is good that you embarked on the right path of development, starting with the army.
          PS And by the way, laughing, scoffing and insulting the weak is not the destiny of the strong. I do not take this to you, but here most Russians just do that they try to get rid of any positive from Ukraine.
          1. a52333
            a52333 12 September 2013 22: 16
            +1
            No, Valery, not gloating, believe me. Rather, this feeling is like the younger brother (it’s without an ulcer) climbed into the swamp, looking for a short road to the house. And you seem to know that there is no way out, but he does not hear you.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 12 September 2013 22: 27
              +1
              Quote: a52333
              No, Valery, not gloating, believe me. Rather, this feeling is like the younger brother (it’s without an ulcer) climbed into the swamp, looking for a short road to the house. And you seem to know that there is no way out, but he does not hear you.

              Well, firstly, hears and does not listen - different concepts.
              Secondly, I would take him by the scruff of the neck and kick him in a dry path, well maybe not kicks, but this is a power option, do you want this for Ukraine?
  • vadson
    vadson 12 September 2013 15: 56
    24
    Well, you can only wish good luck to the brothers Slavs and give advice to take an example from the brothers of Belarusians in cooperation with the Russian brothers
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 12 September 2013 16: 44
      +5
      Quote: vadson
      Well, well, you can only wish good luck to the brothers Slavs and give advice to take an example


      Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I wish it, but the Ukrainians only "spun" our advice, almost Europe, however, where do the Asians go before them?
      1. vadson
        vadson 12 September 2013 17: 16
        -1
        Well, Asia has always been famous for wisdom ... so we'll see
  • IRON_MAN
    IRON_MAN 12 September 2013 16: 01
    12
    Glad for the neighbors! hi
    1. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 12 September 2013 16: 35
      0
      Quote: IRON_MAN
      Glad for the neighbors! hi


      Why rejoice? This jerk of Ukraine in the global arms market is directed in which direction? In my opinion, this is an accelerated run towards the abyss. Iraq bought what the United States ordered, from whom the United States ordered, so that the United States would earn some of the agents of influence in Ukraine. Earned one kind of (well, or a group, it doesn’t matter) snatch, and the whole country thinks that this is progress.
      1. Alexander D.
        Alexander D. 12 September 2013 21: 28
        +7
        Quote: Geisenberg
        Quote: IRON_MAN
        Glad for the neighbors! hi


        Why rejoice? This jerk of Ukraine in the global arms market is directed in which direction? In my opinion, this is an accelerated run towards the abyss. Iraq bought what the United States ordered, from whom the United States ordered, so that the United States would earn some of the agents of influence in Ukraine. Earned one kind of (well, or a group, it doesn’t matter) snatch, and the whole country thinks that this is progress.

        That is, if Iraq entered into contracts with the Russian Federation for 4 billion greens, then the United States also ordered this? Or do you have double standards: if you bought from Ukraine - ordered the USA, if bought from Russia - showed political will and eastern wisdom ?!
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 12 September 2013 16: 07
    14
    In particular, today the Ukrainian Oplot tank is being bought by Thailand.


    that's exactly the key word "in particular", about "Oplot" stories have been circulating since the beginning of 2000 that "the best in the world" and no one buys, not otherwise the intrigues of the damned mos ..., but seriously, the Ukrainian corrupt officials have agreed with Thai corrupt officials, shook hands, voila, the contract. There is no tank machine building in Ukraine, there is property inherited from the USSR, and so you live.
    1. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 12 September 2013 16: 22
      +5
      Quote: seller trucks
      that's exactly the key word "in particular", about "Oplot" bikes have been circulating since the beginning of 2000 that "the best in the world" and no one buys, not otherwise the intrigues of the damned mos

      Yeah, here the skirmish on the Bastion was as before ...
      The article is more like PR for its lads, but by and large it is a pity that the personal greed and venality of political officials (both in Ukraine and in Russia) divided one people, one country .......
    2. vjhbc
      vjhbc 12 September 2013 20: 22
      +5
      and in Russia, property and officials from honest aliens are probably honest, honest
      Quote: seller trucks
      In particular, today the Ukrainian Oplot tank is being bought by Thailand.


      that's exactly the key word "in particular", about "Oplot" stories have been circulating since the beginning of 2000 that "the best in the world" and no one buys, not otherwise the intrigues of the damned mos ..., but seriously, the Ukrainian corrupt officials have agreed with Thai corrupt officials, shook hands, voila, the contract. There is no tank machine building in Ukraine, there is property inherited from the USSR, and so you live.
  • plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 12 September 2013 16: 13
    +8
    Aircraft of Ukraine .. the most volatile ... tanks are the most tanked ... trains are the most train ...
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 12 September 2013 19: 57
      +7
      Quote: plotnikov561956
      Aircraft of Ukraine .. the most volatile ... tanks are the most tanked ... trains are the most train ...

      Soviet harvesters are the most red harvesters in the world!
  • rugor
    rugor 12 September 2013 16: 14
    10
    Weapons are now being bought in the same way with the aim of finding a potential defender in which case. Therefore, the main sellers, they are the main players on the world stage are the USA, Russia and China. Ukraine can really produce the best tanks in the world, but the demand for them will not be the best in the world. But in any case - good luck.
  • ATATA
    ATATA 12 September 2013 16: 14
    +6
    It’s better not to write these mantras about the reviving tank building, but to tell how armored personnel carriers are for Iraq.
  • artem772
    artem772 12 September 2013 16: 22
    -3
    "Ukraine" is spelled with a capital letter, you idiots!
    1. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 12 September 2013 16: 39
      -6
      I predict in this thread a bacchanalia of Russian Svidomites.
    2. bulanash
      bulanash 12 September 2013 16: 46
      +5
      pinched self-esteem? You can even write the whole word in capital letters - the geographical name from this great power will not
    3. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 12 September 2013 21: 50
      -3
      that the Ukrainian 772 A.A.L.L.N.s.ee pain?
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 12 September 2013 16: 30
    10
    In my opinion, this is too optimistic forecast, wishful thinking. They, hall (s) having called under the EU should now puff out their cheeks. How predictable it all is. You should have seen what kind of reports are sent to the EU and the media by our titular ex-communists and their hangers-on.
  • Lyapis
    Lyapis 12 September 2013 16: 37
    +1
    Now it is necessary to intensify research on the possibility of reducing the crew to two people.

    Hmm ... interesting statement. And then how to equip the crew? Mechvod / commander + gunner or mechvod + commander / gunner? request
    1. vjhbc
      vjhbc 12 September 2013 23: 02
      +1
      like in aviation commander-driver navigator-operator weapons
      Quote: Lyapis
      Now it is necessary to intensify research on the possibility of reducing the crew to two people.

      Hmm ... interesting statement. And then how to equip the crew? Mechvod / commander + gunner or mechvod + commander / gunner? request
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 12 September 2013 16: 53
    +3
    It was not enough to finish reading. Let them do it, just so that they don’t shoot at us.
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 12 September 2013 17: 03
      +6
      Quote: shpuntik
      It was not enough to finish reading. Let them do it, just so that they don’t shoot at us.


      more than half of the articles about the military-industrial complex of Ukraine are like that, Ukrainians like to play with flabby muscles. And as for "they didn't shoot at us," if only with a stick, the Ukrainian army is 30-40% combat-ready, and then near Kiev, not a single aircraft / helicopter / ship for the Armed Forces in 22 years, well, it's true, an incomplete hundred of modernized tanks arrived.
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 12 September 2013 17: 13
        +7
        seller trucks (1) RU Today, 17:03 ↑ New
        And as for "they didn't shoot at us," if only with a stick, the Ukrainian army is 30-40% combat-ready, and then near Kiev, not a single aircraft / helicopter / ship for the Armed Forces in 22 years, well, it's true, an incomplete hundred of modernized tanks arrived.

        So Yes. But they recently conducted exercises in the Lviv region, showed a new parachute. Weapons of NATO can be thrown, and these Bandera with the Poles will go punitive easily. So I think.
      2. Andrew 447
        Andrew 447 12 September 2013 17: 21
        +8
        On a friendly resource it was infa that in 2013 4 new "Oplot" will be transferred to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And laughter and sin. More platoon and less company. Or they have 4 tanks in a platoon, if so then it is clear. This supply of tanks looks more like a misunderstanding or mockery. Although ..... In Ukraine, in my opinion there are 4 tank brigades, well Then each brigade commander will have a new tank for Christmas. I’m happy because it’s all very sad.
      3. Corneli
        Corneli 12 September 2013 19: 42
        0
        Quote: seller trucks
        not a single airplane / helicopter / ship for the aircraft in 22 years, but the truth

        Not quite right. In the Navy - 2 corvettes some number of boats for border guards. They plan to get 4 new corvettes (the first one was laid down in 2011, like they promised to launch it in 2016) and a certain number of boats (10 to 2017)
        But with the Air Force sadness (Of the 1100 combat aircraft and 900 helicopters, by 92, by 2012, 80 helicopters, 163 combat aircraft and 25 transport remained. (
        If for the transport aviation (An-70 was ordered, the rest are repaired) and helicopters (any old motor can be repaired and modernized and manufactured, and that’s what it’s done, and there were some kind of new projects). What will happen to the xs exterminators is simple. MiG-29 okay, they’re still repairing it, they’re modernizing it, but SU-no. And how long will those twigs last? There are no new ones. feels my heart will buy flu from the Swedes (
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 12 September 2013 20: 21
          +5
          Quote: Corneli
          There are no new ones. feels my heart will buy flu from the Swedes (

          Alaverdi is my friend.
          You see the pieces of the picture, but in general you don’t understand.
          I didn’t put you a minus.
          WILL NOT BE GRIPEN!
          WILL BE ONLY WORSE !!!
          This is not the hand of Russia, it is the law of amputated limbs.
          Russia, this body, Ukraine cut off hand!
          The body will be crippled, but will survive, the hand will rot in the trash!
          1. Warrawar
            Warrawar 13 September 2013 01: 56
            +1
            Quote: ATATA
            WILL NOT BE GRIPEN!
            WILL BE ONLY WORSE !!!

            There will be no flu, because the flu is worth the money.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 13 September 2013 05: 21
              -1
              Quote: Warrawar
              There will be no flu, because the flu is worth the money.

              There is always the opportunity to agree, for example, take the Czech Republic:
              They wanted fighters, they arranged a tender: "In 1999, five companies submitted their proposals for the tender of the Czech Defense Ministry: Boeing (F / A-18), Lockheed Martin (F-16), Dassault Aviation" (Mirage- 2000-5 ")," Eurofighter "(EF-2000" Typhoon ") and the consortium" BAe Systems "/" SAAB "(JAS-39" Gripen ")."
              Gripen defeated.
              Further more :
              "Initially, in 2001, it was planned for the Czech Air Force to purchase 24-36 new aircraft to replace the outdated MiG-21. The contract worth 60,2 billion kroons for the purchase of JAS-39 (based on the results of a tender) was approved by the government in April 2002, however this decision did not receive support in the country's parliament.As a result of the redirection of funds to eliminate the consequences of the floods of 2002, the procurement format was changed, and in 2004 the Czech government entered into with the Swedish Armed Forces Material Supply Agency (FMV) agreement on leasing 14 JAS-39 for a 10-year period from 2005 to 2015. Rental price amounted to about 19,6 billion kroons ($ 928 million)... All aircraft were delivered to the customer in 2005. "
              Initially, it seemed like so-called influenza at 60 lyam apiece (with weapons together), but as you can see, it cost a lease.
              Although there was a murky story with bribes to some Czech state. figures on the part of the Swedes (since the price is, so to speak, overpriced).
              1. 31231
                31231 13 September 2013 08: 31
                0
                A total of 66 lyam per flu through a leasing company. Do you think these companies interest-free finance?
        2. Cristall
          Cristall 12 September 2013 23: 58
          0
          Su 27 is also being upgraded. We have no better airplane in the Air Force.
          We do not have a design bureau. There is no money to buy. Yes, and it’s hard for us. If Grippen is easier for us to take than dry in Russia - then what to talk about.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 13 September 2013 00: 40
            +1
            Quote: Cristall
            Su 27 is also being upgraded. We have no better airplane in the Air Force.

            Not in the know, somewhere from a year ago I read that the problem is with their modernization. And if the MiG-29 got the hang of patching and modernizing and they more or less went back to the troops, then there was no drying type. Up to the conclusion that the Migi will become the main aircraft, since the su will soon completely fail (well, yes, 20+ years are no joke)
            Quote: Cristall
            We do not have a design bureau. There is no money to buy. Yes, and it’s hard for us. If Grippen is easier for us to take than dry in Russia - then what to talk about.

            The military, yes (only repair factories. As for the "purchases" it is. The Czechs, they gave up their moments, at one time and leased gripenes. The Swedes have a lot of strong competitors, they have to get out.
            And buy from Russia, you see for yourself what is going on? They and ANami are fooling themselves over and over each other for a year, which Russia and Ukraine really need. So there would immediately be tough conditions.
            Although the situation would be simpler, in the place of Ukraine (in the sense of the government), I would buy the MiG-35. For the price they are even a little cheaper than the Swedes, plus a new plane and Mikoyan’s even a loan order would VERY much be in the subject. And SU would give for modernization. But this is so ... dreams (
        3. seller trucks
          seller trucks 13 September 2013 09: 43
          0
          Quote: Corneli
          motor-sich can repair and upgrade any old ones, and produce,



          You can, in more detail, about "any produce", you know, I will tell you one thing, but don't be offended, one of the most difficult parts of the helicopter is the main rotor, this is a part that is made with mathematical precision, there are no such technologies in Ukraine. And your vaunted Motor Sich is just an engine manufacturer
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 13 September 2013 12: 02
            0
            Quote: seller trucks
            you can, in more detail, about "any produce"

            Go to their site, and read what they offer and do.
            Quote: seller trucks
            you know, I’ll tell you one thing only, don’t be offended, one of the most difficult parts of the helicopter is the rotor, it is a part that is made with mathematical precision, there are no such technologies in Ukraine. And your vaunted Motor Sich is just an engine maker

            I'm not offended) Just taking the word out of context is not very good. Any old (Soviet) ... produce ... This does not mean that "any" can do. Who do you think is engaged in the repair and modernization of turntables in Ukraine?
            P.S. And what about the screw (new), and what a huge problem to order if you need it? And the vaunted "motor sich" is 30% of the engines of the Russian market (4 years ago it was 50). Helicopters, even new ones, even with propellers, without motors, cannot fly, and nothing else ... somehow your helicopter pilots got out and bought what they needed. That's why I'm not worried about Ukrainian helicopters
            1. seller trucks
              seller trucks 13 September 2013 14: 42
              0
              Quote: Corneli
              Go to their site, and read what they offer and do.


              I went and looked, they produce engines, did you come in by yourself? planes to produce helicopters in Konotop in 2014-2015, do you really think that they will be bought? laughing

              Quote: Corneli
              Just pulling the word out of context is somehow not very.


              stop, you want to say that I misunderstood?

              Helicopters, even new ones, even with propellers, do not fly without motors, and nothing ...


              The point is that Motor Sich is 90% or even more tied to the Russian market, there will be no orders, there will be no Motor Sich, is it really incomprehensible? by the way, the Kraz car plant from 2008 to 2012 reduced the production of cars by 5 times (5000/900), and if we take 2013 by almost 10 times (5000/500).
      4. Alexander D.
        Alexander D. 12 September 2013 21: 31
        +2
        Quote: seller trucks
        Quote: shpuntik
        It was not enough to finish reading. Let them do it, just so that they don’t shoot at us.


        more than half of the articles about the military-industrial complex of Ukraine are like that, Ukrainians like to play with flabby muscles. And as for "they didn't shoot at us," if only with a stick, the Ukrainian army is 30-40% combat-ready, and then near Kiev, not a single aircraft / helicopter / ship for the Armed Forces in 22 years, well, it's true, an incomplete hundred of modernized tanks arrived.

        Even in Crimea, very combat-ready air defense, if forgotten.
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 12 September 2013 22: 05
          +1
          Yeah, with missiles produced before the 1991 year, yeah ... combat readiness is growing every year.
          1. Kars
            Kars 12 September 2013 22: 31
            +5
            Quote: evil hamster
            Yeah, with missiles produced before the 1991 year, yeah ... combat readiness is growing every year.

            Yeah, and Kazakhstan C-300 extends the resource in Ukraine.
            1. evil hamster
              evil hamster 12 September 2013 23: 14
              0
              Resource of what solid rockets? write still I write.
              1. Kars
                Kars 12 September 2013 23: 39
                +1
                Quote: evil hamster
                Resource of what solid rockets? write, I write

                Complex C-300
                The success of the S-300PS air defense system in Kazakhstan was approved by the temple for repair work at Ukroboronservisu

                http://www.ukrspecexport.com/

                Yes, and solid rockets are also not so swell.
                1. evil hamster
                  evil hamster 12 September 2013 23: 50
                  +2
                  Of course, microcracks in the checker putty patched up and in front of laughing
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 12 September 2013 23: 53
                    +1
                    Quote: evil hamster
                    Of course, microcracks in the checker putty patched up and in

                    Do you think the checker is weakly completely changed? Yes, and they cracked microcracks such a problem that they did not think about at the design stage.
                    1. evil hamster
                      evil hamster 13 September 2013 00: 24
                      +2
                      certainly not like that:
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUUOHqjvY0
                      I wanted to find something else, a couple of years ago I saw on a tytube, about the same thing with only 48N6 emnip, the fireworks are much more impressive. Again, your beech rocket exploded almost at the very launch site during firing in the Crimea, either in 2010 or 11.
                      Quote: Kars
                      You think the checker is weak to completely change?

                      It can be changed if - it is provided for by the rocket design, but on 48N6 this possibility is not provided. For 5V55K I do not know, maybe you are in the know?
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 13 September 2013 11: 17
                        +1
                        Quote: evil hamster
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUUOHqjvY0

                        They shot an expired rocket there?
                        Quote: evil hamster
                        Again, your beech rocket exploded almost at the very launching site during firing in the Crimea, either in 2010 or 11.

                        remember there was a video where your C-300 rocket fell back onto the launcher.
                      2. evil hamster
                        evil hamster 13 September 2013 22: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        They shot an expired rocket there?

                        They said that they knocked it, it is unprincipled from what cracks appeared in the fuel checker, from the fur of damage or marriage of production or aging, the main fact of their appearance. And yet, not every rocket is knocked on, but every rocket runs out of life, it is inevitable and sooner or later they need to be changed. And if there are options for repairing renewals with liquid rockets, then solid rockets often have no options.
                        Quote: Kars
                        remember there was a video where your C-300 rocket fell back onto the launcher.
                        yes there was such a video, only here for our C300 - C400 rockets are mass-produced, and the old ones are regularly and quite massively fired at Asheluk, and for Ukrainian c300 .....
                        I'm not gloating, I just noticed a friend that Ukraine had strong air defense, but its combat effectiveness decreases every year, and if the issue is still not resolved, it will come to naught sooner or later.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 13 September 2013 22: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: evil hamster
                        They said that you hit her, it’s unprincipled about

                        Actually it’s important.
                        Quote: evil hamster
                        Yes, there was such a video, only for our C300 - C400 rockets are mass-produced, and the old ones are regularly and quite massively fired at Asheluk, and for Ukrainian c300.

                        Well, yes, of course. But of course, for obvious reasons, you will not provide a lat for launching missiles that are currently on combat duty.
                        Quote: evil hamster
                        he simply remarked to his friend that Ukraine had a strong air defense system, but its combat effectiveness decreases every year, and if the issue is still not resolved, it will come to naught sooner or later.

                        Well, why is it decreasing, the complexes have begun actively modernizing the last 5 years, which was not the case in 90 and the beginning of 2000.
                2. family tree
                  family tree 13 September 2013 01: 34
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  Do you think the checker is weakly completely changed? Yes, and they cracked microcracks such a problem that they did not think about at the design stage.

                  Awesome problem by the way. No one else has learned how to lay welds without microcracks, even on a tin request According to this, the weld is always a weak spot. You can, of course, cast, but when cooled, it also has microcracks, and the rolled, due to the hardening, will be harder, therefore, cook. Boris Evgenich Paton, by the way, honor and respect!
    2. 31231
      31231 12 September 2013 22: 09
      +3
      not funny civilian planes to shoot down. I did not understand humor. Your relatives would be there, so they would not chat.
  • Andrew 447
    Andrew 447 12 September 2013 16: 59
    +8
    This statement is another Ukrainian TV series "Old songs about the main thing." They are also going to sell and lease part of the territory of the Malyshev plant. Now "Oplot" will be assembled in nearby garages. laughing
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 September 2013 17: 04
    +2
    The feeling of reading the article is somehow sad ..Like produce something sell ... I didn’t want to write a comment but could not stand it and the article was not + not - .. The rainfall in my soul was bad (no offense Ukrainians) ..
  • Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 12 September 2013 17: 04
    +3
    There was already an article on the site about how Ukraine miraculously took the 4th place in the world in the arms trade. A little more and will enter the 1st place on the "Oplot"! wassat
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 13 September 2013 01: 58
      +1
      Quote: Kovrovsky
      There was already an article on the site about how Ukraine miraculously took the 4th place in the world in the arms trade. A little more and will enter the 1st place on the "Oplot"! wassat

      It was a rating of a parallel universe. And in our universe, in 4 and 5 places, Germany and France.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 12 September 2013 17: 07
    +3
    The armored tank industry ensured Ukraine’s breakthrough in the global arms market
    Just a jerk. So, a mild cramp, which will soon cease with armored vehicles.
  • brewhouse
    brewhouse 12 September 2013 17: 14
    +8
    Already today, samples of Ukrainian armored vehicles successfully compete with European vehicles, confidently bypass Russian ones at tenders, although the school for creating light armored vehicles in the country developed from scratch. And taking into account some improvements, Ukrainian armored vehicles can easily replace NATO combat armored vehicles


    In the place of Ukrainian propagandists, I would not be in a hurry to throw statements like "confidently bypass" or "easy to replace." The latest story with the delivery of rusty Ukrainian armored personnel carriers to Iraq, which were arrested in India, shows that there is no smell of lightness here. And the redesigned T-64s under the name "Oplot" have so far been ordered by only Thailand, which has never been a buyer of forward military equipment and traditionally buys equipment of either the past, or even the generation before last, anyhow cheaper. For border conflicts in the jungle with the Cambodian T-55 "Oplot" just right and for more, apparently, does not pull.
    So don't panic gop until you jump over.
    1. yanus
      yanus 12 September 2013 17: 30
      +6
      Quote: Brewhouse
      For border conflicts in the jungle with the Cambodian T-55 "Oplot" just right and for more, apparently, does not pull.

      One figs both get stuck in rice fields while they go around the jungle.
      Yes, and it doesn’t work there to sell the same Abrams. There, the shell weighs more than a Thai, without an automatic loader in any way.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 12 September 2013 20: 11
        +1
        Quote: yanus
        Yes, and it doesn’t work there to sell the same Abrams. There, the shell weighs more than a Thai, without an automatic loader in any way.

        The Korean and the leopard from the tender were with loaders, like Abrams.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 12 September 2013 20: 10
      +7
      Quote: Brewhouse
      And the converted T-64 under the name "Oplot"

      T-64 is Bulat. The stronghold is the T-84
      Quote: Brewhouse
      So far, "Oplot" has been ordered only by Thailand, which has never been a buyer of forward military equipment and traditionally buys equipment of either the past, or even the generation before last, at any price. For border conflicts in the jungle with the Cambodian T-55 "Oplot" just right and for more, apparently, does not pull.

      "German Leopard 2A4, Russian T-90, South Korean K1 (although I heard that K2) and Ukrainian Oplot" took part in the tender. If the Korean is definitely old (and the K2 is too new and VERY expensive), then leopards and ATTENTION T-90 - this is also your "generation before last"? laughing Moreover, these "ancient" tacni also blew through the stronghold)
      P.S. In the desire to obhayat "evil ukrov", some do not go to what current ... they lower their own MBT below the plinth, for example ...
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 12 September 2013 20: 27
        +1
        Quote: Corneli
        "German Leopard 2A4, Russian T-90, South Korean K1 (although I heard that K2) and Ukrainian Oplot" took part in the tender.

        Russia abandoned the T80.
        It is very expensive!!!!!!!
        T80 exceeds T72 by 15% in combat characteristics, and at a price more expensive 3 times!
        3 T72s do 1 T80 ammo!
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 13 September 2013 00: 14
          0
          Quote: ATATA
          Russia abandoned the T80.
          It is very expensive!!!!!!!
          T80 exceeds T72 by 15% in combat characteristics, and at a price more expensive 3 times!
          3 T72s do 1 T80 ammo!

          And at what prices do you think, if not secret? I did not find the price of the last t-72 modifications (
          Thailand stronghold for 2013 cost 4,9 million units
          T-80 Cyprus in 2011 for 3,8 million sold
          T-90 for 2011 was worth 3.5 million Modernization of the T-72, at the same time, according to min. defense, cost 3, 4 times cheaper than the new T-90. That is 800-900 thousand. How much is the tank itself then? In your opinion, no more than 1,3 million, right?
          1. ATATA
            ATATA 13 September 2013 04: 56
            +1
            Quote: Corneli
            That is 800-900 thousand. How much is the tank itself then? In your opinion, no more than 1,3 million so

            Here, I somehow lost the meaning of your remark.
            Put the question differently.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 13 September 2013 05: 34
              0
              Quote: ATATA
              Here, I somehow lost the meaning of your remark.
              Put the question differently.

              It’s clumsy to see, I wrote ... Let's try it differently):
              Quote: ATATA
              T80 exceeds T72 by 15% in combat characteristics, and at a price more expensive 3 times!

              The price of T-80 is 3,8 million units (if we take the Russian-Cyprus contract of 2011 as an example)
              So the cost of T-72 (in a modern body kit) should be 1,26 million units (3 times cheaper)
              I have not found the price for the T-72s (upgraded modifications) sold in recent years. I saw only the cost of the "upgrade" - approx. 800-900 thousand dollars (what is left then from the tank, in the remainder, costing 300-400 thousand?)
              So I ask you: How much does the T-72 cost in a modern configuration?
              В
        2. Warrawar
          Warrawar 13 September 2013 02: 16
          0
          Quote: ATATA
          Russia abandoned the T80.
          It is very expensive!!!!!!!
          T80 exceeds T72 by 15% in combat characteristics, and at a price more expensive 3 times!
          3 T72s do 1 T80 ammo!

          And the T-80 is less reliable and eats more fuel.
          1. Donetskiy
            Donetskiy 13 September 2013 08: 47
            0
            these are tales from the category of advantages of a Kalashnikov assault rifle, for an unprofessional and poorly trained army, of course, just right, but what shoots milk after the first shot is all the costs.
      2. Warrawar
        Warrawar 13 September 2013 02: 18
        0
        What is such a tender? The tender was held in the offices, on the subject of who will roll back more and who will give the most bonus.
    3. evil hamster
      evil hamster 12 September 2013 22: 08
      +3
      Let's all be fair, Oplot is the modernization of the T80UD all the same, not the T64
      1. Warrawar
        Warrawar 13 September 2013 02: 15
        0
        Quote: evil hamster
        Let's all be fair, Oplot is the modernization of the T80UD all the same, not the T64

        Yeah, that's right. T-64 is "bulat".
  • Sirs
    Sirs 12 September 2013 17: 32
    +5
    Not guys, things don’t do that, I don’t see Ukrainian armored personnel carriers and tanks in the chronicles of modern battles.
  • rumatam
    rumatam 12 September 2013 17: 39
    0
    and uncle what is the Hero of Ukraine?
    1. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 12 September 2013 21: 42
      +1
      Quote: rumatam
      and uncle what is the Hero of Ukraine?

      "Uncle" in his life did enough to leave his mark on the history of the whole country and the military industry! And what have you done to get at least one paragraph written about you on the Internet ?!
  • WIN969
    WIN969 12 September 2013 17: 46
    +9
    Jerk of Ukraine? laughing While they are modernizing Soviet tanks there, work is underway in Russia and around the world to create a new generation tank. And after joining the EU, Ukraine will generally serve Europe.
    1. Yuriwhite
      Yuriwhite 12 September 2013 19: 00
      +5
      Exactly! Moreover, the reserve for modernization is huge. You look and Bulat-2 is just around the corner. Only here the production of NEW buildings is mute - that's sadness, huh? In the meantime, cut equipment from landfills and steam suckers if you find. Particularly delivered about BTR-4 - we take the BTR-80 clean from rust, we make a fashionable body kit simultaneously begging the guns from the Russian Federation for we ourselves can’t paint as much as we can and get BTR-4 laughing

      Here's what’s interesting - that it’s not an article about the successes of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine so solid laughing
      1. Warrawar
        Warrawar 13 September 2013 02: 14
        0
        Quote: YuriWhite
        - we take the BTR-80, we clean it from rust, we make a fashionable body kit simultaneously begging the guns from the Russian Federation for we ourselves can’t paint as we can and we get BTR-4

        Not BTR-80, but BTR-60 ...
        1. Donetskiy
          Donetskiy 13 September 2013 06: 35
          0
          Yes there really, at once it was necessary to write BTR-50.
      2. Donetskiy
        Donetskiy 13 September 2013 06: 41
        0
        Well, let's say you can push it into a puddle, and answer for the bazaar, how is it with this? In more detail from the place that they took, how they cleaned and from whom they begged for something.
  • Siberian
    Siberian 12 September 2013 18: 00
    +3
    Quote: Nukem999
    ..........................

    Humor, humor, that's good. But the technologies (developments) are also sovdepovskie. And the designers of the same school. So no wonder. And we need to work together with them. By the way, they are working in some things.
    1. Andrew 447
      Andrew 447 12 September 2013 18: 31
      +5
      We’ll already be able to work with them in cooperation, now they’re almost geyropeytsy, now they’re only with YOU in a whisper. But their cool specialists must be deceived and the terms denyed.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 12 September 2013 18: 02
    +3
    I think Ukraine is our competitor in some part of the segment of this market, because we think so far we are releasing almost the same, in some respects still Soviet. But we kind of are already stepping a bit ahead with rebar, Kurgan, etc., I don’t know exactly how with the bastard in Ukraine.
    1. Yuriwhite
      Yuriwhite 12 September 2013 19: 06
      +2
      What a competitor! There is no hull production there! And without it, everything is just a junk upgrade!
      1. Donetskiy
        Donetskiy 13 September 2013 08: 22
        0
        Quote: YuriWhite
        There is no hull production there! And without it, everything is just a junk upgrade!

        Datysh? what is the truth?
        http://ukrafoto.com/reportages.php?id=2385&photo=42145
        http://ukrafoto.com/reportages.php?id=8037&photo=139424
  • Algor73
    Algor73 12 September 2013 18: 13
    +4
    "... First of all, to restore independence to the industry ...". And who will return it when the whole family grabs. It's a shame not only for tank building (with the support of the state, which the Malyshev plant receives, UVZ would have ceased to exist long ago and they would have forgotten what it was called), but also for other branches of the military-industrial complex - only something worthwhile, so immediately the owner located. Old cadres (like Borisyuk) will leave, new "lads" will come and that's it. VPK cover.
    1. Yuriwhite
      Yuriwhite 12 September 2013 19: 04
      0
      Do you seriously think that the cover is not yet? belay Yes, it happened a long time ago - now agony. It is not sad for you, but with your rulers only one result is possible - ruin.
      1. Donetskiy
        Donetskiy 13 September 2013 08: 29
        0
        in your head you have a ruin, or rather a hole.
  • shark
    shark 12 September 2013 18: 16
    10
    Well, you attacked the brothers of Ukrainians. Well, the guys are complexing. How is this such a great power and do not really produce anything? Decided to attach to the defense industry. I’ll tell you this is all remnants of imperial thinking. You need to get rid of it soon. Now it’s not a power, but the most withered backyard of gay Europe. A testing ground for testing new drugs, uninterrupted supplies of cheap labor and your children (gay men will soon legalize their pidophilia.) But mostly yes, the converted T-55 tanks and the MI- helicopter 2 quite so nothing.))))
    1. Donetskiy
      Donetskiy 13 September 2013 06: 17
      -3
      anyone who has a sore one speaks of it, therefore attempts to impose their own complexes on others, in the slang of some Russians, sound like a diagnosis to themselves.
  • Irokez
    Irokez 12 September 2013 18: 21
    +5
    I, too, think that if they get into Europe, then they will have to buy or do everything European and NATO, and they will have to forget about their developments, or simply cut them for scrap and rent the workshops. By the way, they offered to buy armored vehicles at the price of scrap metal.
    If in cooperation with Russia, then our T80 could be repaired and modernized in cooperation, and spare parts with argegates could be delivered, and so on, sold to Russia abroad.
    As the partner says, you need to choose either We or a tolerant West that is looking for a hole to fit into.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 12 September 2013 18: 44
    +4
    Where to whom who pulled ???
    Just compare how many of the same tanks were produced by the Malyshev plant in the USSR and in modern Ukraine.
    The plant was almost thrown into scrap, and then the golden bullets are cast.
  • DmitryMSK
    DmitryMSK 12 September 2013 19: 10
    +5
    Dash into the abyss? Eh, another paramogue is not there ...
    Especially with BTR-4 laughing

    I don’t know how to post the news here, so I'll throw it into the Ukrainian topic.

    Ukrainian customs detained a Russian warship


    Ukrainian customs has delayed the exit of the Russian Black Sea Fleet patrol ship to the Mediterranean Sea, a source told RIA Novosti in the surface ships division of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
    “They began to re-compile lists of the entire crew, looked through all the documents, asked questions, it seems as if the process was artificially delayed,” the source said. According to him, the ship has already been delayed for more than three hours. There has never been anything like it in his practice, the source noted.
    According to him, the ship’s passage through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles was ordered today.
    Earlier, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation reported that the “sharp-witted” left Sevastopol and headed for the Mediterranean Sea, where a group of Russian ships is currently being formed.
    According to the source, as of 12.00:XNUMX Kyiv time, the ship had not even started the main engine and had not yet begun preparations for going out to sea.

    http://www.ukrrudprom.ua/news/Ukrainskaya_tamognya_zadergala_rossiyskiy_voenniy_


    korabl.html

    Absolutely ah ***** panov. Ushakov in the coffin will roll over.
    1. 31231
      31231 12 September 2013 22: 22
      +1
      yes, it seems that the Ukrainian authorities are beginning to work by order of the State Department and put sticks in our wheels with Syria. It is a pity the fraternal people. With such rulers, the fate of the pro-Balti enclaves would not have befallen.
    2. Cristall
      Cristall 13 September 2013 00: 02
      0
      Judging by the news (it’s not known how this is) for only 3 hours. Hmm .. and on the border with Russia, trains stood for a week ... It is unlikely that this will be the answer ....
      By the way, usually Ukraine takes retaliatory steps to wars, but this time they behaved openly - they did not fight at all. Neither put pressure on the Russian Black Sea Championship for anything else .. Our fellows are here.
      1. 31231
        31231 13 September 2013 08: 46
        0
        Lapul, how great they are. Syria is grinding radical Islamist scumbags, and yours have found something to put pressure on. Do you have enough of your Crimean Tatar fools ?!
        Judging by the news, after 3 hours the ship was still standing.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 12 September 2013 19: 31
    +5
    This is not for long. Last convulsions, so to speak.
    The most interesting thing will happen on airplanes.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 September 2013 19: 35
    +5
    Ukraine (their politicians is more accurate) they want to have the status (military and economic) of the Baltic countries .. or, to be more precise, have nothing except the status of a member ... (regret it later ..) only the attitude will be different .. (such a military-industrial complex and rural the economy is torn apart ..) .. The SS parades and gay parades are waiting for you .. and to dissipate under the guise of what you have left after the USSR .. (And many patriots specialists already work for them, it’s a shame to simply participate in this .. Ukraine on volosts and small-proprietary interests of clans ..) I wrote it correctly .. and the sediment on my soul ... honestly .. Here the Anglo-Saxons did a good job .. Ukraine is losing .. and this is the Slavs ..!
  • waisson
    waisson 12 September 2013 19: 42
    +1
    while it seems to me Ukraine is dancing the American country where amers allow it
  • nekromonger
    nekromonger 12 September 2013 19: 45
    +8
    I’m reading and laughing, right now Gaster just came to the plant from Kharkov from the Morozov Design Bureau and reported that he actually receives cranes, works 2 days a week, and then only shabbos. Anyone can help us. But the ass came to the Malyshevsky factory a long time ago, after a Pakistani order. If they do, they take bodies and engines from the landfill and sculpt a miracle tank bastion. And where is this jerk? on paper.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 September 2013 20: 48
    -1
    Tanks are not a stronghold, but most likely a "Obglot" .. in African countries it is just right .. for the infantry with bows and spears to ride on them .. You may be offended, but everything goes to this ...
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 September 2013 21: 06
      +4
      T-72 are excellent in Africa, anyway, they were removed from service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
  • zzaharr
    zzaharr 12 September 2013 20: 53
    +6
    The empty KhZTM workshop is a clear confirmation that the plant has died.
    Thanks to the latter circumstance, it is clearly seen that the "new" "Oplots" are obtained by sawing and hanging with cans of old used T-84 and T-80UD cans.


    It is clearly seen that the "Oplot" was sawn from an old "used" car.


    The formidable combat appearance of "Oplot" is created by this props from various cans and "cans"

    The propaganda myth about the allegedly existing production of tank guns in Ukraine is refuted - the guns are old, still Soviet-made.

    In the "new" turret, the "new" Ukrainian tank "Oplot", the "new" still Soviet cannon 2A46M-1.
    "Super DZ" "Knife" - all its "super" qualities are only in the fact that the elements are installed in as many as six layers! No wonder that it weighs several times more than the Russian DZ.

    "Six-layer" DZ "Knife" really has no analogues in the world! Well, you have to think of this ...


    As a result, the Oplot weighs more than 51 tons!
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 September 2013 21: 03
      +4
      Quote: zzaharr
      The empty workshop of KhZTM - a visual confirmation that the plant has died

      Gurk Khanchik overpowered)))) these are pearls still those.

      It is said that 5 tanks are in the high-readiness phase, 20 is still in operation. Do you think they should all be in the same workshop?
      Quote: zzaharr
      It is clearly seen that the "Oplot" was sawn from an old "used" car.

      would have proved that there
      Quote: zzaharr
      The propaganda myth about the allegedly existing production of tank guns in Ukraine is refuted - the guns are old, still Soviet-made.

      also by the way is not a fact
      Quote: zzaharr
      "Super DZ" "Knife" - all its "super" qualities are only in the fact that the elements are installed in as many as six layers!

      And does not break out of the Leclerc cannon from 100 meters.
      And here is what Nii Steel ErEfovskoy by the way posts
      1. zzaharr
        zzaharr 12 September 2013 21: 13
        +6
        Quote: Kars
        Gurk Khanchik overpowered)

        And then wink
        In fact, he is right. They take an old tank and a multilayer cake is welded onto it. By the way, why six layers? Eight and ten could
        1. Kars
          Kars 12 September 2013 21: 16
          +1
          Quote: zzaharr
          In fact, he is right. Take the old tank

          He could prove it?
          Quote: zzaharr
          Eight and ten could

          Well, you haven’t done that either.
          Quote: zzaharr
          And then

          According to Alaverdi
          During the "Open Day" at the plant. For the first time, Malysheva’s photos of the Oplot tank’s defense devices were publicly available.
          Protection consists of layers of cumulative protection based on HCHCV devices separated by damping layers of composite material.


          Tests with shelling using domestic and foreign BPS showed unique characteristics of reducing armor-piercing ability. So when shooting from the Leclerc tank from a distance of 100 meters, the decrease in armor-piercing ability was 100%.

          The OFL 120F1 projectile with armor penetration within 600-650 mm left only a dent in the armor with a depth of 20 mm. Tests were carried out repeatedly with a similar result.
          It is not strange that the domestic Mango BPS up to 60 mm when firing at close range (the approximate armor-piercing ability of Mango at a distance of 150 mm is 550 mm).


          Even when shooting from a minimum distance, western and domestic BPS will not be able to break even the outer slab of the Oplot tower and get to the combined filler package. Based on this, it can be concluded that the protection is able to withstand any modern BPS (M-829A3, DM-53) even with the use of special segmented cores specially designed to overcome the dynamic protection of the Contact-5 and Relic types.
          The Relikt complex, even based on the advertising materials of NII Steel, provides protection only against M829A2 (1994) BPS already discontinued, and even then from a distance of 1000 m.

          The question arises, why is a dynamic relict protection needed that protects the latest T-90 only from outdated M829A2 ammunition?
          It turns out that the latest T-90MS shown in 2011 does not protect even from long-adopted foreign BPSs and, in fact, has “cardboard” armor.
          The “Duplet” dynamic protection complex developed by the Kyiv MCC “Mikrotek” surpasses the closest analogue “Relikt” (Moscow, NII Steel) in its protection indicators by more than 2,5 times!
          1. zzaharr
            zzaharr 12 September 2013 21: 31
            0
            The “Duplet” dynamic protection complex developed by the Kyiv MCC “Mikrotek” surpasses the closest analogue “Relikt” (Moscow, NII Steel) in its protection indicators by more than 2,5 times!
            - Nonsense, suitable only for brochures.
            The OFL 120F1 projectile with armor penetration within 600-650 mm left only a dent in the armor with a depth of 20 mm. Tests were carried out repeatedly with a similar result.

            Well, they still know that it was a pure setup, when they beat it in strict accordance with the plane of installation of the packages. A tank would not be needed there either.
            1. Kars
              Kars 12 September 2013 21: 38
              +5
              Quote: zzaharr
              - Nonsense, suitable only for brochures.

              for you naturally.
              Quote: zzaharr
              Well, they still know that it was a pure setup, when they beat it in strict accordance with the plane of installation of the packages.

              The truth is EVERYTHING)))) And by the way, you can explain what you just said. From what angle is this for a start, well, since everyone knows everything, tell me)))
        2. Alexander D.
          Alexander D. 12 September 2013 21: 46
          0
          Quote: zzaharr
          Quote: Kars
          Gurk Khanchik overpowered)

          And then wink
          In fact, he is right. They take an old tank and a multilayer cake is welded onto it. By the way, why six layers? Eight and ten could

          There are 3 layers of DZ, and not 6. Moreover, each layer protects its angle of shelling of the armor. Between DZ is composite armor. By the way, how are you so sure that they are taking the old tank?
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster 12 September 2013 23: 26
            +1
            Quote: Alexander D.
            Moreover, each layer protects its angle of shelling armor

            Nothing like that, look at all the layers, they are oriented in the same way, and the fight against tandem ammunition is achieved.
            Quote: Alexander D.
            Between DZ stands composite armor
            Not armor damping element, rubber or polymer what.
        3. Donetskiy
          Donetskiy 13 September 2013 05: 43
          0
          if in fact, then another Khlopotov vyser is easily debunked, an ordinary eighty into a "stronghold" is physically impossible to convert, you can only Pakistani t-80ud (ob. 478BE) or t-84u (ob.

          Quote: zzaharr
          In the "new" turret, the "new" Ukrainian tank "Oplot", the "new" still Soviet cannon 2A46M-1.

          in the photo is not a stronghold tower, but a mass-dimensional model for technological needs made on the basis of a cast tower of an ordinary "birch" (ob. 478B) and what kind of gun is there without a difference. The stronghold has a welded tower, the novelty of which is 80% compared to ob. 478BE, ob. 478DU9 and to ob. 478DU9-1, they do not fit physically, not to mention the old cast ones from ob. 478B.
    2. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 12 September 2013 21: 44
      +1
      Learned to quote Khlopotov? Do not forget to wipe his icon before going to bed.
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 12 September 2013 22: 14
        +3
        Huh, does that mean you have the Tarasenko icon? not just interesting laughing
  • Druid
    Druid 12 September 2013 21: 28
    +1
    Quote: Fofan
    you compare Belarus with Ukraine, for starters, then rejoice
    And what do we compare? ...
    We saw more than once Belarus was being clamped down on by Russia, Azerbaijan helped as much as it could when the older brother put a knife to the throats of Belarusians and demanded with a foam at the throat! Pennies !, forgiving billions to enemies, just to humiliate and disgrace on their TV channels, but to amuse their vanity .
    Ukraine has created a good tank, a good armored personnel carrier, if you compare them with the Russian, having fewer capabilities and resources than the Uralvagonzavod or Arzamsky plant.
  • uwzek
    uwzek 12 September 2013 22: 15
    +4
    Article minus. Naive reasoning about the arms trade is fascinating. The author does not seem to know that not a single manufacturing company in the world sells weapons (apart from sports and hunting). States trade in weapons (such are the international laws). For example, UVZ for "its" first contract with India received a ruble for every dollar received by Russia (the rate was then about one to seven). It is significant that even these crumbs allowed UVZ not only to stay afloat, but also to fly up to the skies ... Other Russian tank manufacturers have successfully died during this period (most likely irrevocably).
    On the topic of obtaining an Indian contract at the time, perhaps the series will be removed. At first, the feat of the testers, who demonstrated the ninetieth Indians for almost a year and a half (the chief designer of the tank died at the finish of the tests). Then, the restoration of production at the stolen factory. UVZ under the USSR produced up to fifty tanks a month - in 2001, only seven to eight. The equipment of the forties of the last century (more modern, installed according to the papers, went to the astral plane). Problems with suppliers of groceries (which have similar problems) - there was a glorious tank on which the seventh engine earned. Problems with the staff. Plus they constantly steal ... UVZ survived this epic only because it was not only the tanks that it was releasing. Some of the specialists have not yet left the factory, and a little time has passed from the beginning of the failure.
    Kharkov, like Omsk and St. Petersburg, has long passed its point of no return, twenty-five years is a whole generation ... The article is an ordinary advertisement for an ordinary tuning office. I sympathize with Ukraine, because I myself experienced these problems. Specialists are very sorry.
    .
  • Yugra
    Yugra 12 September 2013 22: 38
    +1
    Create, do not create your own iron, and the hard time will come, you will have to be saved by the Ivanov hated on the T-72; T-80 and Armata., Where are you bursting into the arms of the enemy.
    1. Donetskiy
      Donetskiy 13 September 2013 06: 44
      -2
      Ivan, sit at home blow vodka and do not put your nose in other people's affairs.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 12 September 2013 22: 45
    +3
    Quote: Druid
    Quote: Fofan
    you compare Belarus with Ukraine, for starters, then rejoice
    And what do we compare? ...
    We saw more than once Belarus was being clamped down on by Russia, Azerbaijan helped as much as it could when the older brother put a knife to the throats of Belarusians and demanded with a foam at the throat! Pennies !, forgiving billions to enemies, just to humiliate and disgrace on their TV channels, but to amuse their vanity .
    Ukraine has created a good tank, a good armored personnel carrier, if you compare them with the Russian, having fewer capabilities and resources than the Uralvagonzavod or Arzamsky plant.

    Russia is clamping down on everyone ... and all are "God's dandelions"))
  • Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 12 September 2013 22: 48
    +3
    Quote: vadson
    Well, you can only wish good luck to the brothers Slavs and give advice to take an example from the brothers of Belarusians in cooperation with the Russian brothers

    I completely agree. By and large, we were divided by prtviteli. And I respect us the same thing. The authorities primarily take care of their incomes. But for some reason, Lukashenko and Putin are prettier to me than the Ukrainian authorities who do not know who they will turn to and what.
  • Cristall
    Cristall 12 September 2013 23: 18
    0
    Eh. sadness. According to the comments, one negative almost. Guys from Kharkov make a feat every day without a large state order. I respect them from me.
    My warm feeling does not leave - that any news about Ukraine - here in VO is extremely biased. Everyone reminds us that he has nothing to do with tanks.
    We are enemies here already because the government decided to sign the association.
    Khlopotova and Tarasenko are sometimes not worth listening to and even give their arguments. Everyone knows their love. Again the same rake.
    Karsu Respect is the only lawyer in Ukraine here on this subject.
    In general, Oplot is a good and beautiful tank.
    1. Glory333
      Glory333 13 September 2013 01: 35
      +3
      By signing the association with the geyropa, the Ukrainian government is betraying not only Russia but the entire Ukrainian people.
      1. Donetskiy
        Donetskiy 13 September 2013 06: 31
        -2
        don't talk nonsense, it’s just a matter of streamlining business on foreign trade markets.
        Well, the cattle-like neighbor herself pushes anyone towards the enlightened Europe:
    2. Warrawar
      Warrawar 13 September 2013 02: 02
      0
      Quote: Cristall
      In general, Oplot is a good and beautiful tank.

      The ugly duckling, not a tank - T80 tuning version "in Dagestan".
      1. Donetskiy
        Donetskiy 13 September 2013 06: 03
        -2
        Some and An-148 call a donkey, well, what can you do if there is a huge toad in the minds of some Russians, which in every way distorts their attitude.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 13 September 2013 01: 44
    +1
    Quote: Glory333
    By signing the association with the geyropa, the Ukrainian government is betraying not only Russia but the entire Ukrainian people.

    Directly according to Bissmark’s plan, to divide the Russians, having found traitors from the powers that be in Ukraine ... we seem to have lost this battle, we must draw conclusions so as not to lose the war, Russia will still fight ...
    1. Donetskiy
      Donetskiy 13 September 2013 07: 01
      -2
      ~ 30 million ethnic Ukrainians live in the Russian Federation, and who shared whom, this is a story that should remind you of the parade of sovereignty when, among the first, independence of the RSFSR was proclaimed the first president of the Russian Federation in the future. So on which side were the traitors found? Brezhnev saw Shcherbitsky as the receiver, but the Kremlin did not give ghouls and we all know how it ended.
  • Donetskiy
    Donetskiy 13 September 2013 03: 19
    0
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 13 September 2013 03: 57
    0
    Quote: Donetskiy
    http://youtu.be/9TCJIpUjW2M]


    to heighten the effect, it was necessary to crap right on the tank and shoot from several cameras, which could be seen as one tank hitting the "stronghold" and so that it could be seen close)
    1. Donetskiy
      Donetskiy 13 September 2013 07: 42
      0
      to heighten the effect of what? This is not a PR campaign.
  • MolGro
    MolGro 13 September 2013 06: 11
    0
    these tests remind me of this movie
    the same meaningless !!
    1. Donetskiy
      Donetskiy 13 September 2013 06: 25
      -2
      cool story bro, but your off-topic "bunch in a puddle" is much more meaningless.
    2. Andrew 447
      Andrew 447 13 September 2013 12: 22
      0
      This is a cartoon of tests, more like a gathering of adults "homemade" in garages. We especially admired wooden trays and scotch tape. From the post of KARS, I naively thought that the real "Leclerc" really gave the "Oplot" BOPS, but all this happened at the Malyshevsky training ground near Chuguev, and with professional filming, and then the next work of photoshoppers. If this video is inserted into the presentation of "Oplot" on any international arms exhibition, the ANSHLAG at the stand is provided, Zadornov is out.
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 September 2013 12: 28
        +1
        Quote: Andrey 447
        From the post of KARS, I naively thought that the real "Leclerc" really vpedyuril "Oplot" BOPS

        And so it was, real French brought their Leclerc to the exercises.
        Quote: Andrey 447
        and here is the next job of Photoshop.

        And what didn’t suit you? I personally didn’t see the test of Relic at all.
        Quote: Andrey 447
        Especially admired wooden trays and scotch tape

        and what is it? For example, the test of English Chobham
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 September 2013 16: 26
          +1
          It is strange that there are so many comments deleted.
          Even mine, where it was just written that kaz and dynamic protection can be tested in different ways)))
  • MolGro
    MolGro 13 September 2013 06: 44
    0
    yeah and blow up RPG grenades))
    This is the PPC test, you would still have shells on tape scotch)) the effect is the same !!
    In my opinion, a normal test is when a grenade launcher is attached to the crane and it shoots at a target, also from a cannon. Next is the camera and shoots the flight of shells!
    Here is an example of regular tests of KAZ Arena


    And then a kindergarten for divorce suckers !!

    all that I saw was not a regular explosion of ammunition that exploded it is not clear how !!
    you can put all other arguments in your ass because there is no sense in them!
    1. Donetskiy
      Donetskiy 13 September 2013 07: 36
      -1
      Quote: MolGro
      you can put all other arguments in your ass because there is no sense in them!

      dear quilted jacket, eka has hurt you, but I have to upset you, you blundered again ((

      In my opinion

      all the fluctuation of the position in one line and do you understand what you're trying to talk about?
      "Arena" is a complex of active protection and its testing does not imply any other variations than firing with a moving target. The "doublet" ERA and the initiation of detonation of a tandem ammunition in a static position contributes to its maximum penetration, in all other cases it will vary due to the speed factor. In addition, for the sake of giving the cumulative jet different angles, it is done exactly this way and nothing else.
      And finally, my advice to you is to learn to state your thoughts more thoroughly, or at least correctly compose helpless posts and use scripts, so as not to produce the same thing several times clogging a branch.
    2. Kars
      Kars 13 September 2013 12: 29
      +1
      Quote: MolGro
      Here is an example of regular tests of KAZ Arena

      And? KAZ cannot be tested in another way, it acts on flying ammunition.))))))