Military Review

Grandfather fought for hikivaki?

72
Within the framework of the G-20 summit in St. Petersburg, a meeting was held between President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe. One of the most important topics raised during the meeting was a discussion of the prospects for concluding a long-awaited peace treaty between Russia and Japan. Of course, this is an important matter - Japan is Russia's eastern neighbor, it is an influential and very economically and technologically developed state, with which it would be nice to have good relations.


Recall that officially the peace between the Soviet Union and Japan, which suffered a defeat as a result of World War II and who capitulated September 2 on 1945, was never signed. As a result of the war, some territories, formerly belonging to the Japanese Empire, were ceded to the Soviet Union. The affiliation of the Southern Kuriles, including the islands of Iturup, Kunashir, Shikotan and the islands of Habomai, has been disputed by Japan for almost seventy years since the end of World War II. For many decades, the Soviet Union, and then the Russian Federation, recognized in the world as the actual successor of the Soviet state, did not agree with Japan’s territorial claims to the South Kurile Islands. In turn, Japan put the transfer of the specified territories to it as the main condition for the signing of the long-awaited peace treaty.

For a long time, Russian leaders did not go about the Japanese and did not agree with the demands put forward by the transfer of the insular empire of the Southern Kuriles. Even Boris Yeltsin, on whose conscience “the parade of sovereignties”, ultimately did not go so far as to give the Southern Kurils to the Japanese. I would like to hope that Vladimir Putin will not enter history as president, who gave the Kurils.

At the meeting held in St. Petersburg, the Russian president and the Japanese prime minister reached an agreement ... attention! ... to take the principle of "hikivaki" as the basis for further activities in the framework of the signing of a peace treaty. This Japanese term, as reported by various media, should be well known to the Russian president as a professional judoka. “No winners, no losers!” - so in Russian you can convey its essence. In sports - a draw! It is understood that Russia and Japan will be equal participants in the further negotiation process and, as it should be understood, Russia's historical truth, the reasons for the transfer of the South Kuril Islands to it will not be taken into account.

Grandfather fought for hikivaki?

But let me! The Soviet Union, although initially did not take part in the war against Japan, which unfolded in 1941 — the first half of 1945. in the Asia-Pacific region, it concentrated considerable military resources in the Far East precisely because of the danger of Japan joining the war against the USSR on the side of Hitler's Germany. The Soviet army on the western front suffered colossal losses and was deprived of the support of those fresh forces that could be transferred from the Far East, if Japan had not openly threatened the Soviet borders.

8 August 1945, the Soviet Union officially declared war on Japan, thus joining the war on the side of the Allies in the anti-Hitler coalition. The main battles between the Soviet and Mongolian troops and the Japanese were launched in Northeast China, on the territory of Manchuria. It was there that the famous Kwantung Army was defeated. However, there were bloody battles on the Far Eastern islands. Soviet troops liberated South Sakhalin. And from August 18 to September 1 1945, for two weeks, the Kuril landing operation lasted. For several days, by August 23, the Soviet troops managed to occupy the Northern Kuriles. From 23 August to 1 September there were battles for the islands of the South Kuriles - the very territories that Japan claims today. In early September, the Habomai Islands were occupied by Soviet troops. Directly in the Kuril landing operation, Soviet troops participated in a total of 15 000 people who managed in a short time to defeat the 80-thousandth Japanese army. Despite the clear numerical superiority, in the battles for the Kuriles, the samurai did not show vaunted resilience and were quickly defeated by Soviet troops. 50 Thousands of 442 Japanese soldiers and officers, including four generals, were captured.

According to official figures, more than one and a half million (1 million 577 thousand 225) Soviet and Mongolian soldiers and officers took part in the hostilities against Japan. Many Soviet troops found themselves on the eastern front and with honor carried the banner of victory at the other end of the Soviet state. Grandfather of the author of the article, naval officer fleet, also participated in the Soviet-Japanese war and was awarded the corresponding awards for the victory over Japan. Veterans of the Soviet-Japanese war, although less than the Great Patriotic War, but they were and are - and their military feat deserves no less respect.

More than 12 thousands (according to official data) of Soviet soldiers and officers gave their lives in the name of the victory over Hitler’s Asian allies. 1 One thousand 567 Soviet soldiers and officers died directly in the battles for the Kuril Islands. The Soviet representative, Lieutenant General Kuzma Derevyanko (the heroic officer — who had fought all his life, a military intelligence officer who died untimely at 50, from cancer earned after visiting Hiroshima and Nagasaki) was among those who signed the Japan Surrender Act. That is, Japan capitulated, recognized its military defeat, and the Soviet Union. That is, not the Hikivaks, but the harakiri of the Japanese Empire became the finale of the Second World War.


Now it turns out that there are “neither winners nor losers”. Hikivaki! Orders and medals of my grandfather - are they unreal? He did not win? Other Soviet soldiers and officers did not die? Is it possible, even if guided by opportunistic political or, there, economic considerations, to rewrite history, openly rejecting what was conquered and achieved by our fathers and grandfathers with such difficulty, real feats?

Being the successor of the Soviet Union, Russia rightly inherits the victories made by Soviet soldiers, fathers and grandfathers of modern Russian citizens. The point is not only whether or not to concede to Japan the strategic South Kuril Islands, for which the Soviet people fought. The point is in the very formulations that insult the memory of the dead and surviving participants of the Great Patriotic War. The memory of the one and a half thousand Soviet servicemen who died in the Kuril landing operation. Moreover, exactly on the 68 anniversary of Victory Day over Japan (the first time such a holiday was celebrated in the USSR - September 3). Today, Hikivaki with Japan, and tomorrow it will turn out - with Germany, too, Hikivaki and is it time to give Kaliningrad?

The Russian Federation is a huge state, a world superpower (at least, we would like to!). Its prestige and position in the world arena depend, among other things, on how sensitively Russia and its citizens relate to their own history, to the historical victories of the Russian and Soviet state. Therefore, in such situations as the dispute over the South Kuriles, even guided by considerations of immediate benefit, in no case can one rewrite history. Russian diplomacy must show its effectiveness, having managed to reach an agreement with Japan and officially conclude a long-awaited peace without territorial concessions and, especially, without a reassessment of the consequences of the Great Victory.
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  1. Tersky
    Tersky 12 September 2013 15: 27 New
    52
    Hikivaki winked ? This is a hakivaki from the USA after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and it’s such that your memory is completely bogged down by someone who poured nuclear bombs on your heads. And from Russia, only hara-kiri, and the well-known root crop to catch up. Do you want the Kuril Islands? So smoke aside. And remember that:
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 12 September 2013 16: 29 New
      11
      The surrender of the position of the USSR (Russia) Winner of the second superpower of the world, unfortunately, is logical because of the defeat of the USSR in the Cold (World War 3) and because of the destruction of the economy, industry and agriculture committed during the criminal suicidal privatization.
      Russia is now dictated by conditions. This was brought to her by the traitor Gorbachev, the drunkard and the American puppet Yeltsin with his pro-American pack of assistants, and the current leaders of modern Russia, Putin and Medvedev, had a “hand in hand” and did not show much zeal to protect Russia's state sovereignty and restore its destroyed economy.
      Hence the position of a weak Russia "take as a basis for further activities in the framework of the signing of a peace treaty with Japan the principle of" Hikivaki "-" Neither the winners nor the vanquished! "
      It is a pity to Russia, we are a generation of sons and grandchildren of the Winners, who were unworthy of our fathers and grandfathers! We betrayed their deeds and achievements.
      And unfortunately, I think, despite our cheering patriotic slogans here, weakening of Russia and the loss of state territory, including that, will not end there.
      1. Kashchei
        Kashchei 12 September 2013 20: 00 New
        +8
        That's right - the weak was always robbed ... How easy it is to ruin a strong country - A KNIFE DOESN'T NEED FOOLS, TURNING THEM WITH THREE BOXES AND DO ALL WHAT YOU WANT!
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Gromily4
          Gromily4 12 September 2013 21: 02 New
          10
          You +, great story, if only it were true.
          Americans will never let Japan go for good.
          And Japan cannot make decisions bypassing America itself.
          And if so, then they won’t get the Kuril Islands, never.
          Talking with an occupied country does not make sense, you need to talk with the occupier.
        2. APASUS
          APASUS 12 September 2013 21: 29 New
          +7
          Quote: krasin
          And only some old Japanese, who was sitting at the table, calmly said in Russian: “**** they will give us, not the Kuril Islands ...” Diplomacy ...

          Briefly and clearly!
      3. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 12 September 2013 20: 29 New
        +5
        Quote: vladimirZ
        The surrender of the positions of the Winner of the USSR (Russia) of the second superpower of the world, unfortunately, is natural due to the defeat of the USSR in the Cold (World War 3)
        What the hell is a dog's defeat?

        If there has been a usurpation of power and public property, if it has happened - << the destruction of the economy, industry and agriculture committed during the criminal suicidal privatization >> - resulting in partly - << Russia is now dictated by conditions >> - This does not mean at all that the USSR lost in the war, and EBN was a state puppet.
        Rather, it means that part of the nomenclature of the second half of the USSR deliberately felled the country, and did this not on the basis of a state order, but on its own initiative and with the benefit exclusively for its beloved, as a result of which - << the current leaders of modern Russia, Putin and Medvedev >> - being a logical continuation of EBNya, labeled and Andropov - << "had a hand" and do not show much zeal for protecting Russia's state sovereignty and restoring its destroyed economy >>.

        And therefore - << Hence the position of a weak Russia "take as a basis for further activities in the framework of the signing of a peace treaty with Japan the principle of" Hikivaki "-" Neither the winners nor the vanquished! "
        It is a pity to Russia, we are a generation of sons and grandchildren of the Winners, who were unworthy of our fathers and grandfathers! We betrayed their deeds and achievements.
        And unfortunately, despite our cheering patriotic slogans here, this will not end the weakening of Russia and the loss of state territory, including >>
      4. uwzek
        uwzek 12 September 2013 23: 34 New
        -3
        Our grandfathers and Germany won with its satellite satellites, but no one annexed Eastern Europe. The problems of the Warsaw Pact states became the last cause of the collapse for the USSR.
        Everything is much dumber with the Kuril Islands. Not a single ruler of ours bothered to give the task to lawyers to find a weighty argument in international law on our priority in owning the South Kuril Islands. Permanent references to the discovery of the South Kuril Islands by Russian sailors are ridiculous in that the southernmost of these islands from Japan is visible in fine weather.
        Japan is unlikely to need the islands themselves - a hundred and twenty-mile zone is more important, the samurai do not pretend to the rest of the islands, so these hundred and twenty miles will intersect one and all. In any case, an agreement on joint use with Japan will be necessary (it is still necessary).
        We just need to claim preferences that are beneficial for us, and it’s easier for both Chinese poachers to catch the two of us, and our fishermen sell their whole catch to the Japanese anyway (of course, without taxes to the treasury of Russia).
        There is nothing ours in those places (I was there, I saw it myself). All are commanded by the Chinese and Japanese. And here they offer a non-free option when Japan and Russia will steer (or vice versa). In my humble opinion, on the issue of the South Kuril Islands, the main thing is not to cheapen, as was the case with Eastern Europe under Gorbachev. One of my grandfathers fought with the Japanese, that is, the blood of our soldiers is far from indifferent to me. But the same grandfather liberated Prague, the other South of Europe (Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary - one of the Ukrainian fronts) and Koenigsberg, Poland (Third Belorussian). In addition to the Kaliningrad region, not one of the territories conquered by my relatives, we not only did not have, but never did (and Russian blood was shed there). In the foreseeable future, Japan will not take away the South Kuril Islands from us, but the question will be open and will never be closed (even if we destroy Japan - Russia is not the United States and not shaved with the Malvins). Therefore, the option "not for you - not for us) is very appropriate in the negotiations ...
    2. Hunghuz
      Hunghuz 12 September 2013 18: 59 New
      +3
      hi On Mount Fuji Svidomo horseradish and dill blooms .........)))))) Japanese classics
    3. Joker
      Joker 12 September 2013 20: 40 New
      0
      And that everyone is crucified then? All the same, it is not for us to decide, but Putin will give 100%, not everything is so precisely a part. Will the "patriots" puffing in the kitchens and switch to other topics. Hud tear off and go to the rally? Nah, flutters let go.
      1. Arabist
        Arabist 12 September 2013 20: 43 New
        +3
        On what basis is this conclusion made? Yes, and one hundred percent confidence?
        1. Aryan
          Aryan 12 September 2013 21: 33 New
          +8
          I've already told you earlier
          Japanese prisoners of war go to work after Vladivostok after the war
          and sing in chorus "Our proud VARAG does not surrender to the enemy ..."
          clearly not understanding spoken words
          I would give the medal to the nkvdist who pinned them so much

          but from myself I’ll add another ...
          was in Vladivostok at the famous lighthouse
          Well, in the sun, I figured which direction Eponia
          and this is what came of it ...
          do not judge strictly, for it is boiling
    4. Apostle
      Apostle 13 September 2013 14: 38 New
      +1
      My great-grandfather in the period from 1942 to 1946 beat the Japanese on the Far Eastern front, met victory on Lake Hassan, and continued to fight further, was wounded 13 times, after the war he died at the age of 24 as a result of wounds, and now hikivaki ?? Please.
  2. omsbon
    omsbon 12 September 2013 15: 32 New
    12
    HERRY HIM IN BOTH HANDS!
    It seems that the Japs in Tomagotchi outplayed!
  3. a52333
    a52333 12 September 2013 15: 33 New
    +9
    And what, is there an offer to give? In my opinion, there was no such information. And what they want. you never know. I also want an island in the Seychelles! What window do ultimatums accept? I think it’s worth giving them a lip-rolling pencil, and that's enough.
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 12 September 2013 15: 41 New
      +5
      Quote: a52333
      I think you should give them a lip-roll pencil,

      since japs ​​are technological, they need a lip-typing machine, not a pencil. The purpose of a pencil may not be understood
    2. German
      German 12 September 2013 16: 28 New
      +4
      .... or sew a button on the back of the head (to fasten the lip) .....
  4. vadson
    vadson 12 September 2013 15: 36 New
    +4
    yes fuck all relations with narrow-eyed ones and the ambassador to expel them, until they themselves bow with a peace treaty. Whales do not stand on ceremony with them, are we worse?
    1. a52333
      a52333 12 September 2013 15: 40 New
      +4
      They are buying Far East LNG from us. nothing to tear. The dog barks, and the caravan goes on. Today the saying has already flickered, here it is also relevant.
      1. huut
        huut 12 September 2013 17: 02 New
        +3
        “Draw” is not about the right to the islands, but about the negotiations themselves - there are no winners in them, they remained with them. Probably meant that the negotiations will go from scratch, from scratch, again.
        It turns out that this is on the contrary an improvement in relations with Japan, maybe this time they will be more accommodating and can do without "Give the islands back!"

        The author raised a panic without considering all the meanings of the statement. Who would think of giving the islands to us with our sufficiently strong political positions in the world? The author came ...
      2. vadson
        vadson 12 September 2013 17: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: a52333
        They are buying Far East LNG from us. nothing to tear. The dog barks, and the caravan goes on. Today the saying has already flickered, here it is also relevant.

        they have a lot of choice where to buy gas?
    2. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 12 September 2013 20: 07 New
      +6
      Quote: vadson
      yes fuck all relations with narrow-eyed ones and the ambassador to expel them, until they themselves bow with a peace treaty. Whales do not stand on ceremony with them, are we worse?

      But actually, the fucking peace treaty with the Japanese?
      We do not have peace treaties with the French, British, Danes, Swedes, Poles, Brazilians, Indians, Papuans, Chinese and 200 countries and nothing else we live.
      This is for the Japanese without a peace treaty and the Herovato islands (not Horoshy autumn), but we don’t care with the islands.
  5. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 12 September 2013 15: 42 New
    +1
    "Japan put the transfer of these territories to it as the main condition for signing the long-awaited peace treaty." - well, you can not sign! laughing Your car and electronics and without a peace treaty in our country is ...
    1. Aney
      Aney 12 September 2013 16: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: Dazdranagon
      Your car and electronics and without a peace treaty in our country is ...

      And this is really bad. It’s even a shame.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 12 September 2013 21: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: Aney
        Quote: Dazdranagon
        Your car and electronics and without a peace treaty in our country is ...

        And this is really bad. It’s even a shame.

        Japanese just do not need to be ashamed. Japanese - means, as we say, a high end, you can be proud of a machine or a Japanese-made TV. But the fact that Russian manufacturers are uncompetitive even against Chinese shit, this should be a shame. However, not only Russia. In America, you can’t buy local clothes, shoes or furniture either, all Chinese.
      2. Dazdranagon
        Dazdranagon 13 September 2013 08: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: Aney
        Quote: Dazdranagon
        Your car and electronics and without a peace treaty in our country is ...
        And this is really bad. It’s even a shame.

        Totally agree with you! If possible, I would buy everything domestic.
        1. 12061973
          12061973 13 September 2013 08: 55 New
          +1
          who forbids to buy viburnum instead of corolla.
          1. Aney
            Aney 13 September 2013 18: 53 New
            0
            By the way, I bought Kalina.
            45000 normal flight, 4 ignition coils changed (16 valves.) And 2nd bulbs)))
  6. Owl
    Owl 12 September 2013 16: 03 New
    +3
    "Power" spitting on History, on the People and on the State.
  7. Alex66
    Alex66 12 September 2013 16: 10 New
    +8
    We give them the islands, and they give us a piece of paper. Did the paper save us from Hitler? And now, what saves us? In my opinion, our Army is more reliable. So why give the islands with the sea in addition, for a worthless piece of paper with signatures of the heads of state. Contracts are carried out until there is not enough courage to violate them.
    1. JonnyT
      JonnyT 13 September 2013 11: 38 New
      0
      Why are you all .... this is a political game ...... This Japanese minister has everything tied to the issue of the northern territories, he swallowed the hook of Vova, and Vova will periodically pull the string to which the hook is attached. In short, the Japs are spinning))))

      P, s, a large part of the population of the Russian Federation is against the transfer of the islands of Japan ...... our politicians understand this, and if they give the islands all the same it will provoke indignation and even unrest, this will deprive the leadership of the authorities, and so they cannot take risks!
  8. Zomanus
    Zomanus 12 September 2013 16: 12 New
    +2
    Pancake. Yapi arrived as literate bred. breed in the bazaar. It goes without saying that they will break all agreements with them at the first opportunity. So you need to talk to them and talk. And promise and convince. The main thing is not to sign anything.
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. German
      German 12 September 2013 16: 30 New
      +3
      Neither add nor turn down !!!! Mentally something !!!
      1. Strong
        Strong 12 September 2013 22: 27 New
        0
        There is nothing to add, except that in the background Chinese letters are painted. presumably, with the astonished faces, too, the Chinese.

        Daman then, not the Kuril Islands.
    2. Alikovo
      Alikovo 12 September 2013 20: 26 New
      0
      to plant all the Japs on this ... maybe they will think about their claim to the South Kuril Islands.
  10. Watson J.
    Watson J. 12 September 2013 16: 20 New
    -1
    It is necessary to bargain peacefully and civilized. For half the Kuril Islands, let the Japanese sell the return of Alaska from their allies. In the trading process, we’ll go down to half of Alaska for half of the Kuril Islands. In my opinion it is fair. And if all the Kuril Islands are for the whole of Alaska - then in any case - the economic zone is used on an equal footing (or immediately draw the borders of the zones in the agreement). This is a brush. Stop giving. No one gives. Are we like redheads? tired of it. It is necessary to have an alliance with China forever and, together with China, restrain them forever.
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 12 September 2013 21: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: Watson J.
      For half the Kuril Islands, let the Japanese sell Alaska's return from their allies

      Alaska was sold once and for all. So stop chewing this tale once again about some kind of “temporary rent for 100 years”. Minus for not knowing the story ...
      1. Watson J.
        Watson J. 14 September 2013 04: 32 New
        0
        It says in the text: This is a brush. In such letters.
    2. 12061973
      12061973 13 September 2013 08: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Watson J.
      It is necessary to have an alliance with China forever and, together with China, restrain them forever.

      China does not want to smoke, China Siberia wants everything.
  11. Aney
    Aney 12 September 2013 16: 27 New
    +3
    Populate the Far East with Russian immigrants wishing to return to their homeland.
    It is significant for the Japanese to rebuild the city on the island closest to them, to organize sensible production there. This will be an unequivocal signal to calm down.
    But as you know, existing programs do not work ...
    No one has yet to answer ...
    It is interesting to give the land to younger brothers for a personal fee than what is supposed to be "free" to their fellow citizens.
    Criminals in power.
  12. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 12 September 2013 16: 33 New
    12
    Give me some islands of Japan? I don’t understand who unconditionally surrendered on board the Missouri? And they don’t want to sign a peace agreement, so let's finish what we started in 45, by the way Russia has a limit on the use of two nuclear bombs, I I think this will be enough for the Japanese to return to their beloved Middle Ages, and we will get rid of the whiner on the border.
    1. a52333
      a52333 12 September 2013 16: 40 New
      +6
      Give me some islands of Japan? I don’t understand who unconditionally surrendered on board the Missouri? And they don’t want to sign a peace agreement, so let's finish what we started in 45, by the way Russia has a limit on the use of two nuclear bombs, I I think this will be enough for the Japanese to return to their beloved Middle Ages, and we will get rid of the whiner on the border.
      I applaud while standing good
    2. Gromily4
      Gromily4 12 September 2013 17: 03 New
      +4
      They still owe us Hokkaido, so we can knock and pick up our own.
      It seems that Stalin was also supposed to overcome Hokkaido, but the Anglo-Saxons prevented then.
      So you have to wait, if the yapes get bogged down to re-show, then it will be necessary to pick up.
      1. Kibalchish
        Kibalchish 12 September 2013 17: 50 New
        +2
        Hokkaido - was originally supposed to remain Japanese following the results of Yalta and Potsdam. During the Soviet attack on Japan, Stalin wanted to break the agreement and grab Hokkaido, but Truman recalled the treaty and threatened with a bomb and Stalin wiped himself off.
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 12 September 2013 19: 57 New
          +5
          Quote: Kibalchish
          Hokkaido - was originally supposed to remain Japanese following the results of Yalta and Potsdam. During the Soviet attack on Japan, Stalin wanted to break the agreement and grab Hokkaido, but Truman recalled the treaty and threatened with a bomb and Stalin wiped himself off.

          Bullshit, every unfinished half-witted idiot like the goats of the Radzinsky and Volkogonovs now composes what Stalin thought and wanted.
          In the 1945 year, Stalin had to spit on Truman, USA, and their bombs, if the Red Army had the task of capturing ALL the Japanese islands, they would have seized it, and no other Trukhmen would have dared to grunt and put their bomb would be in the ass.
          Stalin had more important and urgent matters, it was necessary to rebuild the country after the war, every healthy man was counted, the workers and defenders were needed by the country, and not some nasty hokaido.
          1. Kibalchish
            Kibalchish 12 September 2013 21: 29 New
            -9
            If Russian men were dear to Stalin, he would not send them to the war with Japan, and even earlier he would not drive them to Kiev and Vyazemsky boilers. The chances of capturing Japan from the Red Army were 0 as many as 0 tenths. Even America, with its mighty fleet, would have to sweat. And there were many aircraft carriers and battleships. The Soviet Pacific fleet was ridiculous next to this armada. As for the plans for Hokkaido - they were - contrary to agreements with the allies. There was a correspondence with Truman. Truman clearly made it clear - if you poke around in Hokkaido, it’s not enough for you creatures. And Stalin tightened his tail, for by nature he was a coward.
            You do not know the story. Talking with you makes no sense.
            1. Berserk
              Berserk 13 September 2013 04: 04 New
              +4
              Cowardly do not do exs. You see it for yourself wrote, kibalchish. The cowardly ones do not become Red Emperors from the seminarians. Write unsubstantiated nonsense. Well, go to the studio a link to correspondence, where Stalin "tightens his tail."
              Plans ... The military always has plans. They just have to be worked out, which does not mean at all that they were once planned for implementation. There was a plan for confrontation with former allies. Which, by the way, also had one. So what?
              1. Kibalchish
                Kibalchish 13 September 2013 05: 28 New
                -4
                Search Google yourself. Correspondence is not secret.
            2. Proud.
              Proud. 13 September 2013 09: 36 New
              +1
              Quote: Kibalchish
              If Russian men were dear to Stalin, he would not send them to the war with Japan

              The Tehran Conference leaders of the Allied Powers agreed in principle to open a second front in Europe. At the same time, the United States and England stated that they would favorably consider Russia's entry into the war against Japan and were ready in return to satisfy the geopolitical interests of the USSR in the Pacific Ocean.
              Quote: Kibalchish
              The chances of capturing Japan from the Red Army were 0 point 0.

              Where does the infa come from that they were planning to “seize Japan”?
              Quote: Kibalchish
              Even America, with its mighty fleet, would have to sweat.

              Harry Truman writes in his memoirs that his trip to Potsdam was due to a single purpose - to involve the USSR in the war against Japan. He admits that the United States did not have adequate forces to defeat the Kwantung Army.
              Quote: Kibalchish
              As for the plans for Hokkaido - they were - contrary to agreements with the allies.

              So what? There were and were. "Allies" that, in relation to us, were "pure and blameless, like angels? No. Politics are dirty business in general. "The victorious powers recognize the sovereignty of Japan over the island of Hokkaido," was signed? Was.
              Quote: Kibalchish
              huddle in Hokkaido, it’s not enough for you creatures. And Stalin tightened his tail, for by nature he was a coward.

              Who is this "creature"? Our grandfathers? Is this your opinion? My grandfather was not a "creature! He was a soldier of the Red Army! It makes no sense to talk to you."
  13. Nick_1972
    Nick_1972 12 September 2013 16: 41 New
    +3
    "Politics is a concentrated expression of the economy." No one has canceled this. Therefore, until we raise the economy in the country in general and on the islands in particular, there will always be people who want to get hold of the territories for free.
  14. shpuntik
    shpuntik 12 September 2013 16: 44 New
    0
    The Soviet army on the western front suffered tremendous losses and was deprived of the support of those fresh forces that could have been transferred from the Far East if Japan had not openly threatened Soviet borders.

    I agree with the patriotism of the author, but here he is wrong. It was the Far Eastern 40 divisions that saved the situation near Moscow. According to the documents, this Sorge obtained evidence that Japan did not enter the war.
    And after that they did not attack, when the main forces left, the Far East was exposed.

    And from August 18 to September 1, 1945, two weeks, the Kuril landing operation lasted.

    Hiroshima bombing - August 6, Nagasaki - August 9. The meaning of the Kuril landing was that the islands would not go to the Americans. There were airfields, they could be based there, and for a long time.
    How to rid the Japanese of American influence, at what cost is the question. Our graters with them is a game of the United States and England against us. The Japanese themselves, more adequate than the Chinese and Koreans, can get along with them.
    1. Watson J.
      Watson J. 12 September 2013 17: 09 New
      0
      Join forces in this direction with China. They also have territorial graters with Japan. They will be profitable. We sign a bilateral memorandum - we recognize their claims to Taiwan and the disputed territories with Japan, they recognize the Kuril Islands as our forever, and are putting together military and diplomatic efforts in this direction. The Chinese will never forget the Japanese occupation. Japan after the collapse of the green will be in the opera, you can bend it together with China at that moment. China, if it decides together with Russia to replace the dollar, will simply be forced to bomb American bases in Japan in the event of a conflict with bankers. Here is the solution to the American presence. On the Chinese side, this may even look like constant carpet bombing of Japanese territory without a ground operation. The condition for termination is the complete withdrawal of the American military, guarantees of their non-return, and, accordingly, a peace treaty on borders. And if we are in conjunction with China in currency and in the military alliance, then, accordingly, we participate in the agreement, with the demarcation of borders on our cards. Something like this. Do not give up the Kuril without a fight.

      By the way, they organized the genocide of the Orthodox Ainu in their time.
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 13 September 2013 03: 17 New
        0
        Watson J. SU Yesterday, 17:09 ↑
        Join forces in this direction with China.

        Theoretically, yes. But practically I see the impossibility of reaching an agreement with the Chinese, they’re without a flight of thought. They make everything "silent glanders" - in the first they were always slaves, peasants, in the second the philosophy is such, in small steps. Here is an example: on the Amur, a coastal mound is made in the region of Blagoveshchensk, we do not give them access to the mouth of the Amur, as they poisoned all the fish with phenol.
        The Japanese, yes, bloodthirsty, few Asians, also run wild on the islands. But a big plus is the Bushido code, if they say something, they are doing it. With the Ainu, but they went too far, we could not save them. Sorry for the Ainu.
        As for geopolitics, I would have done this: I would have thrown the Americans in the place of Stalin. His troops escaped. I would have agreed with the Japanese on neutrality, they would have sent the Kwantung army to the Sha, and the Sha would have been busy there for a long time. We could help with weapons, ammunition. In addition to these two bombs, they no longer had it, but for now they would have done, tormented by swallowing dust. The result: a peace treaty with Japan, the absence of military bases of the Sha, Sha, forever the enemies of Japan. That is what we need.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 12 September 2013 18: 17 New
      +3
      Sorge could not get anything 100% reliable. At the Far East stood a group of 1.5 million people. The transfer of these forces to the front could greatly accelerate the achievement of victory.
  15. Arabist
    Arabist 12 September 2013 16: 47 New
    +3
    Comrades, calmly, no one will give the Kuril Islands. Another article designed to sow the next srach-will not give. Not the first and sure not the last.
  16. optimist
    optimist 12 September 2013 16: 48 New
    -1
    Let's hope for the truth of the saying: "To promise is not to get married!" If the "guarantor" surrenders the Kuril Islands, even the most devoted Putininoids will wash it. Although everyone handed over the transfer of territories to China in silence ... Everything will depend on the economic situation in the country: if it comes to a complete ... well, everything can be. After all, the issue of "sale" was discussed in the 90s, but he shot a vomit-ebn ...
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 12 September 2013 16: 50 New
      +1
      Stalin gave the land to China, but for some reason no one criticizes him.
      1. Arabist
        Arabist 12 September 2013 17: 16 New
        0
        Minus. Is that not true?
        1. Watson J.
          Watson J. 12 September 2013 18: 05 New
          +1
          Which ones? Inner Mongolia means? If so, then this is not quite the same.
          1. Arabist
            Arabist 12 September 2013 18: 47 New
            +1
            But does Port Arthur and the city of Dalniy count?
            1. Watson J.
              Watson J. 12 September 2013 22: 46 New
              +3
              On October 12, 1954, the Government of the USSR and the Government of the PRC concluded an agreement that Soviet military units would be withdrawn from Port Arthur. The withdrawal of Soviet troops and the transfer of facilities to the PRC government were completed in May 1955.

              And Dalian, too, he passed. (Khrushchev in the sense of). Stalin did not give up.
      2. Proud.
        Proud. 12 September 2013 18: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Arabist
        China land and Stalin

        China has territorial disputes with all its neighbors. Why did Stalin take it? Probably a purely political step. He gave it back on the eve of the Korean War in 1950. We, with the exception of pilots and other military experts, fought in Korea with Chinese hands, or rather soldiers. He gave away our control rights The Chinese Changchun (former CER) railway with all its property. Also Kwantung region with islands - 3168 square meters. km. Well, yes, a lot. Maybe the Chinese tactfully reminded him of the events of 1900, when Russia by force attached itself to the territories designated as Chinese. And even from 1887 to 1908, Russia managed by force from the Qing rule to conclude five border review protocols with that to move the Sino-Russian western borders. Through the Iliy Sino-Russian agreement, tsarist Russia secured Chinese lands to itself northeast of Tachen and west of Ili and Kashiger, which totaled 70 square kilometers. In any case, I think the Stalinist decision was pragmatic. Moreover, then China was a real ally.
  17. Watson J.
    Watson J. 12 September 2013 16: 54 New
    +4
    It is necessary to change the Yeltsin constitution to EBN for dogs. And about the plurality of ideologies to throw out, leave only one thing - the ideology of "Mighty Russia". And register there the impossibility of changing borders. Well, how much can you? Swedes and Germans paid for the lands of Latvia with the blood of their ancestors and real gold. Whose territory is it? Our grandfathers fought for it, not Latvians, with the money earned by our limits paid for the right to own this land. Who will return the money? Who compensates for the loss? EBN, he did not create this power, he did not have the right to disengage himself from the territory. And just like that, Putin has no right to decide who should receive what and when, how much Russian land. Elementary common sense in such matters to learn from the Chinese.

    I adore analogies. In Ghana, after independence, vast territories along the coast - where now the capital, the port, and the expensive resort areas, were acquired by the leaders of the tribes. Well, naturally, these leaders began to profitably sell these lands (thanks to the investment policy of Ghana, the price tag for the land is large) and local investors are also welcome. As a result, the “indigenous” were caught in a narrow strip between the city and the Gulf of Guinea. The coast of the city in Africa is a dump, the ocean is a gutter, there is no treatment as such, sewage directly into the rivers and directly into the bay right in the city. Now all these crowds live in a landfill next to the garbage pit. The territory is not a trade item.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 12 September 2013 21: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: Watson J.
      It is necessary to change the Yeltsin constitution to EBN for dogs.
      And what does that change? She is not respected.

      leave only one - the ideology of "Mighty Russia"
      This is in the Constitution.

      And register there the impossibility of changing borders
      And this is in the declaration of sovereignty of June 12, 1990, which no one canceled - they simply put it on it
  18. EGORKA
    EGORKA 12 September 2013 17: 32 New
    0
    To give away or not the islands to the Japanese can only be decided by an all-Russian referendum! I think we’ll give it away)
  19. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 12 September 2013 17: 43 New
    -5
    There is no clarity so far. Even if the islands are surrendered, I don’t think that the sky will fall to earth. Perhaps it will be even better.
  20. Proud.
    Proud. 12 September 2013 17: 43 New
    +4
    To this hikivaki (pah .., what a word .., to my refined laughing Russian rumor, abusive), I want to answer in the style of a Japanese haiku: "The skull box was opened. Its contents have dried up. Only the wind throws sakura leaves inside ..."
  21. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 12 September 2013 17: 44 New
    +8
    Somehow like this:

    Yours! hi
    1. not good
      not good 13 September 2013 09: 19 New
      0
      Beautiful footcloths wassat
  22. Mercenary
    Mercenary 12 September 2013 17: 46 New
    0
    People! let's collect signatures in the Duma on a popular vote on the Kuril Islands issue in order to legitimize the results of the referendum and most importantly, so that no one of our rulers in the present or future will even have an attempt to remake something for their political ambitions. !!
    1. Gromily4
      Gromily4 12 September 2013 17: 53 New
      0
      You on the ROI website https://www.roi.ru/ need, write, collect signatures.
  23. Russ69
    Russ69 12 September 2013 17: 57 New
    0
    There is no one talking about bestowal. All that was stated about joint economic use, on certain conditions and nothing more.
    And all these Hikivaki are nothing more than diplomatic language.
  24. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 12 September 2013 18: 03 New
    +5
    I recalled "Vasily Ivanovich is changing his profession": "You are squandering state lands."
  25. VikVik741
    VikVik741 12 September 2013 18: 08 New
    -1
    Why then not remember 1904?
    1. Free88
      Free88 12 September 2013 18: 23 New
      -5
      904 they do not like to remember. The Japanese then banged them like suckers. Despite the fact that Japan was much weaker.
      According to my data, the transfer of the cores is planned in the form of their section. Putin really needs Japanese contracts. The new border will pass along Iturup or between Iturup and Kunashir.
      1. IRBIS
        IRBIS 12 September 2013 18: 48 New
        +8
        Quote: Free88
        904 they do not like to remember. The Japanese then banged them like suckers. Despite the fact that Japan was much weaker.
        According to my data, the transfer of the cores is planned in the form of their section. Putin really needs Japanese contracts. The new border will pass along Iturup or between Iturup and Kunashir.

        Free - you are really free! The flight of what your thought replaces is simply fantastic. Learn the story, my dear. Who armed whom and how then knitted hands. We had practically no troops there, but how much did they shorten Port Arthur? "Drukali" ... You go and often "drunk" and in large quantities. Has the memory gone?
        Well, your "data" is relevant only in Kashchenko.
      2. Arabist
        Arabist 12 September 2013 18: 49 New
        +7
        The Japanese army was not much weaker then, and one of the strongest armies in the world plus received foreign aid. But the war could have been won if not for the First Russian Revolution and the Tsar Rag.
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 12 September 2013 19: 43 New
          +4
          Quote: Arabist
          The Japanese army was not much weaker then, and one of the strongest armies in the world plus received foreign aid. But the war could have been won if not for the First Russian Revolution and the Tsar Rag.

          The whole truth is that in the 1905 year Russia defeated Japan, exhausting its economy and defeating its army and navy.
          The Japanese did not have their military industry ships, guns, shells, gunpowder and even coal they bought in Europe. Russia could have fought another year, two, three, and Japan could no longer.
          The feeble-minded king could not negotiate with the Japanese himself and achieve a peace favorable to Russia, and Witte instructed the chairman of the cabinet, who invited the Yankees to be intermediaries, and even they defended the interests of the Japanese against Russia. For the shameful world, Witte received the title of count from Nikolashka, and from the people the nickname Polusakhalinsky.
          1. Arabist
            Arabist 12 September 2013 19: 46 New
            +2
            I admit, they wrote better than me. I support.
            1. Corsair5912
              Corsair5912 12 September 2013 20: 19 New
              +1
              Quote: Arabist
              I admit, they wrote better than me. I support.

              Well, I just joined your opinion, it was recalled that I read about that war.
          2. Kibalchish
            Kibalchish 12 September 2013 21: 32 New
            -6
            In your alternative reality, Russia defeated the Japanese army and navy? Happy for you. In my reality it was the other way around.
  26. Niko-zhukov
    Niko-zhukov 12 September 2013 18: 29 New
    +3
    It is necessary to replace the lettering "hihivaki" with "horseradish vamki" and send it to the premiere, let it decrypt, and if it doesn’t understand, it’s popular to explain ..
  27. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 12 September 2013 18: 55 New
    +1
    We’ll wait and see. Rather, it’s some kind of diplomatic game. Many screamed that we were surrendering to Syria. How is it going? So it’s too early to panic and there’s nothing to do with alarmism.
  28. Altona
    Altona 12 September 2013 19: 16 New
    +3
    First, let Fukushima be cleared, royal gold will be returned, they will answer for war crimes against the Chinese population ... And then we'll talk ... Who owed something to someone ...
  29. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 12 September 2013 19: 31 New
    +5
    Therefore, in situations such as the debate about the South Kuril Islands, even guided by considerations of immediate benefit, in no case can you rewrite history. Russian diplomacy must show its effectiveness by managing to negotiate with Japan and formally conclude the long-awaited peace without territorial concessions and, all the more, without reassessing the consequences of the Great Victory.

    A simple question: - If the Japanese in the 1945 year defeated the USSR and captured Kamchatka, the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin, would they return them to Russia voluntarily? The answer is obvious, no one, without emergency, voluntarily surrenders their territories even after defeating, let alone defeating them, all the more so.
    What's happened to the battle is holy.
    In addition, the Japanese are just Yankees puppets, as soon as they take possession of the islands, Yusov military bases will be stationed on them.
    Those who are seriously discussing the issue of transferring at least a piece of land to the beaten Japanese should be quartered as Russia's greatest traitors and enemies.
    And we have not concluded peace treaties with a good hundred countries, let Japan be among them.
    1. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 12 September 2013 21: 36 New
      -3
      South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands were Japanese anyway. Learn the story.
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 13 September 2013 11: 51 New
        0
        the Kuril Islands yes, but no southern Sakhalin, Japan conquered it in 1905
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. these
    these 12 September 2013 20: 06 New
    +2
    and someone like Putin spoke of the reprehensibility of revising the outcome of the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in their mouth nogiiiiiiiiiii
  32. Yarik
    Yarik 12 September 2013 21: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Kibalchish
    Hokkaido - was originally supposed to remain Japanese following the results of Yalta and Potsdam. During the Soviet attack on Japan, Stalin wanted to break the agreement and grab Hokkaido, but Truman recalled the treaty and threatened with a bomb and Stalin wiped himself off.

    Moreover, after the use of special ammunition in the Japanese, it seems, they no longer had any left?
  33. Sour
    Sour 12 September 2013 21: 57 New
    +3
    Recall that officially the peace between the Soviet Union and Japan, which was defeated as a result of World War II and capitulated on September 2, 1945, was never signed.
    But the act of surrender of Japan was signed, and this is also a document ending the war. Here the facts are distorted. Officially Japan and Russia not located at war. Anyone who claims the opposite is either slop yap or does not understand the foundations of international law.
  34. npu3pak
    npu3pak 12 September 2013 22: 59 New
    +1
    Yes, all the rules, for them this idea is a fix. They talked about the islands and will say that voters will choose any prime minister only if he promises to "raise the issue of the Northern Territories" with the Russian government.
    Well raised, where to go, discussed ... And that's it, it's time to go home =)
    And for the Russian Federation it’s a carrot - if you can always wave your nose in front of you. But nobody will feed her, you see!)
  35. Albert1988
    Albert1988 12 September 2013 23: 29 New
    +1
    Hmm, I know one Japanese student, studying at Moscow State University at one of the humanitarian faculties (unfortunately I forgot which one). So somehow I had a conversation with him for a long time and touched on the Kuril Islands, his answer surprised me: he said that, firstly, the Kuril Islands are needed not so much by the Japanese as Amers, who, apparently, are constantly trying to demand them back. And secondly, Japanese politicians, constantly advocating the return of the Kuril Islands, earn the votes of local nationalists or simply "conservative" sections of society, of which there are many. As for Putin, I think that the author is worried in vain: given the current strengthening of our positions in world politics, he is unlikely to take such steps, especially since Japan is more likely to be at a disadvantage now, not Russia)
  36. them
    them 12 September 2013 23: 58 New
    +3
    Quote: Kibalchish
    If Russian men were dear to Stalin, he would not send them to the war with Japan, and even earlier he would not drive them to Kiev and Vyazemsky boilers. The chances of capturing Japan from the Red Army were 0 as many as 0 tenths. Even America, with its mighty fleet, would have to sweat. And there were many aircraft carriers and battleships. The Soviet Pacific fleet was ridiculous next to this armada. As for the plans for Hokkaido - they were - contrary to agreements with the allies. There was a correspondence with Truman. Truman clearly made it clear - if you poke around in Hokkaido, it’s not enough for you creatures. And Stalin tightened his tail, for by nature he was a coward.
    You do not know the story. Talking with you makes no sense.

    Complete nonsense!
  37. rodevaan
    rodevaan 13 September 2013 04: 21 New
    +2
    No hikivaki and equivocation in enemies!
    The unconditional Great Victory of Soviet soldiers over the original western and eastern enemies (of all stripes) is our heritage, and our Great history! The history of our Great People!
    And all the territories and trophies that our country and our people acquired after these wars cannot even be challenged!
    So let their boisterous kingstones close - there was nothing to unleash a war, so that then the islands would not beg! Figures pancake. Japs along with the fascists - send to hell with their claims! The first still for the Russian-Japanese debt returned! And the second for another 500 years to sit quietly in a hole and not croak, for 26 million Soviet people destroyed!

    You all owe it all to the grave grandfather Stalin, that he did not give a fair order to the Red Army to turn your countries into a lunar landscape after all that you did in the occupied territories !!
  38. individual
    individual 13 September 2013 08: 16 New
    +2
    Any war ends in victory or defeat.
    Either or not.
    The USSR is the winner in World War II and this is a historical fact.
    Who does not know, let him read a story written in Cyrillic.
  39. not good
    not good 13 September 2013 09: 25 New
    +2
    To remove the Kuril issue it is necessary to offer Japan to become part of Russia, well, for example, AO or purely out of respect for the republic laughing
  40. ed65b
    ed65b 13 September 2013 09: 59 New
    +1
    Putin offering a draw took as a basis -
    The declaration signed on October 19, 1956 between the USSR and Japan terminated the state of war and restored diplomatic relations between the two countries, and also recorded the consent of the USSR to transfer the islands of Habomai and Shikotan to Japan, but only after the conclusion of a peace treaty. "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, meeting the wishes of Japan and taking into account the interests of the Japanese state, agrees to the transfer of the Habomai Islands and Shikotan Islands to Japan with the fact that, in fact, the transfer of these islands to Japan will be made after the conclusion of a peace treaty between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and Japan" says the declaration.

    Everything is moving in this direction, and here you have hikivaki.
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 13 September 2013 18: 02 New
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      Everything is moving in this direction, here you have hikivaki

      Well, hikivaki is not a “draw” in our understanding, but rather a situation where no one can get the upper hand in the fight, that is, in our case, just saving status quo, the Japanese demand the island, and we continue to show them the Native American hut hi
  41. washi
    washi 13 September 2013 14: 33 New
    +1
    Japan expels amers from its territory, recognizes the genocide of the Ainu, Chinese, Koreans, recognizes its aggressive policy towards the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR, returns with interest the gold reserves of the Republic of Ingushetia (according to some versions selected from the White Guards for “preservation”).
    After you can talk further. (how much they still owe us)
  42. Shtv
    Shtv 17 September 2013 11: 15 New
    0
    weak and sad !!! except for "hikivaki" other words chtoli not learned ???

    and in translations of words, refer to the primary sources and not to the degenerate from the media (if not from the same fraternity) since the opportunity allows (the Internet to help)
    reading delirium is disgusting!