Military Review

Special fleet caste

79
The head of the Navy’s search and rescue service, Captain 1 of rank Damir SHAYHUTDINOV, became the guest of the next release of the program “Military Council”, which goes to Ekho Moskvy radio station and Zvezda TV channel.


- In August, with which many tragic events are associated with our country, we all remembered the Kursk submarine that sank 13 years, its crew members ...

“In my opinion, the most important thing we did after the tragedy of Kursk,” they looked at the state of affairs soberly. Not only in the rescue case, but in general in the Navy. This encouraged us to pay more attention to the quality of military training events and the training of military personnel. After all, the most important thing is the willingness of people to competently maintain complex technical means and correctly apply them.

Conclusions are drawn. Every year we successfully carry out on each navy exercises of search and rescue units in order to prove their readiness in practice, as well as to show submariners that there are still forces that can come to their aid.

We have received an impetus to the development, primarily through the means of rendering assistance, especially robotic ones. These are unmanned, remote-controlled underwater vehicles.

Our industry has already mastered diving equipment, with which we carry out work "on the air." These are diving descents up to 60 m. But we have difficulties in mastering great depths. Today, the Navy has two rescue vessels, the Alades and Epron, with deep-sea diving complexes and the VG-200 diving equipment, with the help of which we are able to perform diving work at depths up to 200 m no longer “in the air” , and breathing gas mixtures.

- "In the air" - this means that the air is supplied from the surface?

- Normal air through the filters from the surface, through the air reservoir is supplied to the diver. But man is adapted to live on earth. And with an increase in pressure when immersed under water, nitrogen begins to adversely affect a person. At great depths it has a narcotic effect. A person loses composure, roughly speaking, becomes drunk. Breathing ordinary air, we do not even attach any importance to this.

A mark in 60 m - an average figure established empirically, thanks to the development of our special physiology diving department.

- You are talking about nitrogen that is in our blood ...

- We breathe air in which there is nitrogen. Naturally, this air is dissolved in the blood. When a person goes under water, he is under pressure, which increases the ability of a gas to dissolve in a liquid. Nitrogen is dissolved in the blood and begins its narcotic effect. Similarly, oxygen begins its detrimental effect on humans. At great depths, oxygen poisoning is already occurring. Therefore, in gas mixtures for divers, we replace nitrogen with an inert gas — helium.

The diver descends according to his state of health, and rises according to the regime, so that the gases dissolved in the blood come out naturally, and not as bubbles, turning the blood into "champagne". I emphasize that being a rescue diver is hard work, hard work, for which you need to have a certain margin of safety.

- Do you need some kind of hoses to supply a mixture or air, or is it all in the knapsack behind the diver?

- In the knapsack behind the back of a deep-sea diver there is an emergency air supply. All gas breathing mixes, as well as hot water for heating the diver (it’s cold underneath the water, and not enough sweaters under the diving suit) is supplied through the hoses from the vessel. Deep-sea diving complex - this is a whole system, it is half the vessel. It can be said that the diving ship is built around a diving complex.

- How does weather at sea affect rescue operations?

- It all depends on the carrier ship. The main thing is that the ship, from which diving work is being carried out, firmly stood directly above the object of diving work, without moving or moving.

- What is the training of rescue divers now? What stages is it divided into?

- Divers prepare the naval school of junior specialists in Sevastopol, the course takes at least five months. Practical training is held at the diving range. Step by step, the sailors work out all the actions at depths to 20, 45, 60. Deep-sea divers then take a course on the Epron rescue ship. Practiced by the actions of divers and in the event of various emergencies.

- Do you take part in international exercises?

- International cooperation and cooperation in the search and rescue of emergency submarines is an important area along which, in general, the whole world is moving. In the course of international exercises, practical actions are being carried out to rescue submariners from submarines.

I personally engaged in teaching in 2011 in the Spanish Cartagena, where Russia sent a large detachment of forces — the rescue ship Epron, the rescue tug Shakhtar and the submarine Alrosa. There, for the first time in practice, we were convinced that the rescue devices of the Russian WFM were capable of rescuing submariners from NATO submarines. Our rescue devices are made according to a single standard.

From a foreign submarine lying on the ground, with the help of our rescue bell, we pulled submariners. At the same time, our submariners were withdrawn from the submarine "Alrosa" using the "Makin bell" and other NATO rescue systems.

Every year we participate in meetings of working groups held in Amsterdam, where there is a mutual exchange of the latest achievements in rescue technologies, diving medicine, in the creation of rescue devices.

- How does the rescue bell work?

- The bell goes down to the submarine by means of a cable, which is either taken out by an emergency rescue buoy, or fixed on the submarine by divers or an unmanned remote-controlled vehicle, for example, Panther or Scorpio, if we are talking about the UK, or weapons in the Russian Navy and in Western countries.

The rescue bell, like the rescue vehicle, has a prechamber at the bottom. When this rescue device goes to the submarine, there is water. And the pressure in this prechamber is equal to outboard pressure. The submersible sits tightly on the platform through its propellers. He is centered, convinced that he is sitting on the platform. Then from the prechamber water is discharged into the replacement tank. Thus, it turns out that the pressure in the pre-chamber is compared with atmospheric ... Discharging - and sucked. And with great power. At a depth of 100-200 m, the pressure per centimeter is 20 kg. This force and presses. Then the hatches open, and people transfer to the rescue vehicle.

- It’s good when everything is aligned with the horizon level, and when is it on the side?

- It's not a problem. Existing old vehicles stick with a roll up to 15 degrees, a rescue bell up to 30, but the built Bestor-1 rescue device, which is currently located in Nizhny Novgorod, where it is simulated deep-water diving in a docking chamber, has a special device, allowing to stick to the submarine with roll or trim up to 45 degrees.

- Can one submarine approach the other and take personnel from board to board?

- In the Soviet Union there were two submarines of the 940 project Linok. And the experience of saving this way was.

Now we are gone from this. You know, preparing rescuers for the sake of rescuers is unwise. It makes sense to direct efforts to other areas, such as the creation of safe submarines and the development of a training network for the training of submariners. By the way, now our submariners are practically on 100 percent - contract servicemen.

On submarines, we require rescue devices to be reliable, comfortable, efficient. And the most important thing is that servicemen are able to use them.

- Please tell us about the planned launch of the new rescue ships into the water ...

- There is a saying: "The fleet has no problems, the fleet has tasks." And one of my most important tasks is the formation of tactical and technical tasks. We must tell the industry what we need.

Last year, when forming a state defense order, we placed an order for the construction of new vessels. At the moment, the line of small ships is almost completely covered. Plant "Nizhny Novgorod ship" builds four diving boats for the Black Sea Fleet. Officers of the Black Sea Fleet came there and were pleased with what they saw. In October-November, state trials of these vessels are planned in the Novorossiysk area.

Starting next year, the delivery of rescue tugboats for the Baltic Fleet will begin.

The construction of the Admiralty shipyards of the rescue ship "Igor Belousov" continues. It was a very difficult organizational process. Now all decisions have been made, the delivery of equipment continues. Readiness percentage is on the order of 65 percent. From December, mooring trials will begin, by April of next year we plan to switch to sea trials, we will start testing the diving complex directly. By the end of 2014, we must receive this vessel. In the near future, we are planning orders for the construction of ships of the ocean class.

I note that recently a significant event happened. Launching a new integrated supply vessel opened a new direction in shipbuilding. This is a modular platform boat, designed not so much for transporting divers and diving descents, as for carrying out diving and rescue operations, when it is necessary not only to safely lower and raise the diver, but also to ensure his work under water. That is, so that the diver could carry out welding work, peel something, pick it up.

- And how does this platform work?

“Besides stationary equipment, everything you need can be placed on it in a container.” The boat has a standard set. This is a pressure chamber, pumps, welding equipment, etc. But everything else that may be needed, such as a hydraulic tool or a fire module, is placed on the deck. That is, depending on the situation and the task, you can always add something to the standard equipment.

- you interact with aviation?

- Required. Our western colleagues pay very much attention to it. They have somewhat different management documents, and in the event of an emergency, the crew quickly leaves the emergency submarine, and at the top they are already waiting for the rescue parachute group, which scatter on the water inflatable platforms, creating, one might say, a floating city.

We try to learn from this experience. We also have rescue parachute groups, and we plan to purchase communications equipment and parachute systems for them. This is another direction of development.

- Divers feel special caste in the fleet?

- Of course, we have a certain fraternity. Such castes exist, it seems to me, everywhere in the army and navy. They are paratroopers, marines, scouts, pilots, military doctors and other real pros of their field.
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  1. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 10 September 2013 15: 51
    +5
    Strano - when they wanted to take me into the army, they wanted to send me as a specialist diver (Instructor KMAS) to Vladivostok as a diver. And according to the article - the current school in Sevastople. It's weird.
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 10 September 2013 15: 59
      27
      Guys!
      The latest news in a box. Obama accepted the offer from Putin, where the chemical weapons of Al-Assad should be transferred to the hands of international organizations. Al Assad himself completely agrees and welcomes this proposal. During this exchange, America will launch an offensive against Syria. Militants in panic and shock. But in another week there will be a congress, but Obama has already refused the invasion on his part.


      Listen to NEWS !!!
      1. olviko
        olviko 10 September 2013 18: 44
        +3
        Saudis and Israel in prostration, all chemical provocation of a dog under the tail!
    2. AVV
      AVV 10 September 2013 16: 16
      +4
      Hard but necessary service to the fleet and the country !!!
    3. vlad.svargin
      vlad.svargin 10 September 2013 16: 59
      +2
      It’s possible to go to the school for swimming in the Big Ulis. (Unless you have moved it to another place)
    4. shpuntik
      shpuntik 10 September 2013 17: 51
      +6
      ShadowCat (1) SU Today, 15:51 New
      And according to the article - the current school in Sevastople. It's weird.

      This article has a lot of strange things. Komenz-site? Captain 1st rank !!! Damir SHAIKHUTDINOV.
      Coaming pad
      a special device on the submarine’s hull in the area of ​​exit lock chambers. It is a polished stainless steel ring onto which a diving bell is lowered along a lead cable. At the coaming site to save the personnel of the submarine, autonomous underwater vehicles can land.
      EdwART Explanatory Naval Dictionary, 2010

      He didn't say anything about Kursk, why did the foreigners work? Why couldn't you dock? There is no detail, there is no photo of the allegedly damaged comming site, what type of damage, what is damaged - the same silence. Apparently the "thick torpedo" damaged it, it is so "thick" that it reached the ninth compartment and hit the comming platform.
      There, for the first time in practice, we were convinced that the Russian Navy rescue devices are capable of saving submariners from NATO submarines.

      And the last thing: why are they grazing there all the time, on "Matza's Ear"? As if reporting the situation. Periodically, our generals are there. Are they paid separately? Or by order?
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 10 September 2013 20: 46
        +3
        In Kursk, a lot of dark! And in general, this topic is not customary to raise in the media. It is understandable because of whom. News about laying wreaths by the first persons of the state to the monument to the Kursk submarine crew can not be searched on the Internet, not before them. sad
        1. 11 black
          11 black 10 September 2013 22: 42
          -3
          Quote: S_mirnov
          In Kursk, a lot of dark! And in general, this topic is not customary to raise in the media. It is understandable because of whom. News about laying wreaths by the first persons of the state to the monument to the Kursk submarine crew can not be searched on the Internet, not before them. sad

          They do not repress at least innocent people like some ... what
          and Kursk IMHO was torpedoed by a NATO submarine, when Kursk and the first NATO submarine collided, then ours opened torpedo mines and the amers took it for a threat, opened fire, since there were two NATO boats on one, our Kursk was known in advance, the fact of the attack was confirmed by the fact that in a trace of an Mk48 torpedo hit was found on the bow of Kursk, in addition, after the explosions in Kursk, our BODs opened fire with depth charges, as reported to cause the submarine to ascend (given that the BOD has a powerful GAS and they could not miss the "accident" on Kursk, on it with depth charges ... Nonsense) BUT !!! BOTH NATO SUBSCRIBERS PARTICIPATED IN THE SURVEILLANCE OF THESE EXERCISES HAVE GOT A REPAIR! Well, the first one encountered Kursk is understandable ... A SECOND? Given the above rhetorical question, apparently ours were hooked by depth charges.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 10 September 2013 23: 43
            +2
            Quote: 11 black
            ours opened torpedo mines
            belay And what is this beast, "torpedo mines"? what
            Quote: 11 black
            amers took this as a threat opened fire
            How did they find out about this? And why did Americans take this as a threat to themselves if they tracked torpedo shooting exercises (as stated in the exercise plan) belay
            I don't even comment on depth charges, the Kursk lying in this square on the ground with such a development of events would have gotten many times more ... request
            Blackgo to science fiction writers, success ensured wassat
            1. 11 black
              11 black 11 September 2013 20: 29
              +1
              Quote: Misantrop
              ours opened torpedo mines
              belay And what kind of animal is this, "torpedo mines"? what

              torpedo tubes if you do not understand, do not cling to the words - in the photo of raising the nose of Kursk they are open, that is, the boat was going to shoot

              Quote: Misantrop
              How did they find out about this? And why did Americans take this as a threat to themselves if they tracked torpedo shooting exercises (as stated in the training plan) belay


              The opening of the hatches of torpedo tubes is perfectly audible by the acoustics, just as you can hear their filling with water. Estimate - after a collision with an American boat No. 1, a Russian boat opens torpedo tubes, whom it will shoot at, didn’t it take this collision as an attack ??? The second boat covered the departure of the first, that's all.
              Quote: Misantrop
              I don’t even comment about depth charges, the Kursk lying in this square on the ground, with such a development of events, would have received many times more ... request

              great - I'm just about that! But the bombs were a fact, the question is - WHAT OURS SHOOTED ?? AND WHAT HAVE FOUND OURS TO OPEN THE FIRE DO NOT BE ACCOUNTED WITH THE THREAT TO THE KURSK ??
              First, brainwash, I just suggested the version, the Grounded version - whether or not it is up to you to agree ...

              PS I am silent about science fiction ...
              1. old man54
                old man54 11 September 2013 23: 00
                0
                Quote: 11 black
                Quote: Misantrop
                ours opened torpedo mines
                belay And what kind of animal is this, "torpedo mines"? what

                torpedo tubes if you do not understand, do not cling to the words - in the photo of raising the nose of Kursk they are open, that is, the boat was going to shoot

                I really wanted to squeeze my will into a fist and pass by your writing, but I can’t go past that !!! Dear "misanthrope" I also wrote to you very softly about "going to science fiction writers" ... laughing
                Thanks to people like you, "know-it-alls" and ... all sorts of crazy ideas are born! fool
                What such open TA covers did you see after "raising the bow of Kursk, they are open, that is, the boat was going to shoot" ?? laughing Are you delusional ??? The nose of the "Kursk" together with its TA was cut off at the bottom of the Barents Sea and later blew up there! Maybe it's enough to lie here, here are generally serious people osbirayutsya, and not any punks.
                1. 11 black
                  11 black 13 September 2013 11: 22
                  0
                  so respected - here is a photo with a hole from MK 48

                  Unfortunately I could not find an article in which 1 from the divers wrote about the condition of the bow of the boat, apparently they had already cleaned it up a long time ago, but can you, if you have such a pro, ask a couple of questions
                  1 - why in the hands of one of the officers of the "Kursk" was found the key to the safe with codes to launch the Granite rockets?
                  2 - why on the morning of 12, two squadrons of anti-submarine aircraft with nuclear weapons on board were lifted into the sky
          2. S_mirnov
            S_mirnov 11 September 2013 19: 21
            +2
            Quote: 11 black
            They do not repress at least innocent people like some ...

            Are you talking about whom? I honestly do not understand. The commentary is very emotional, but obscure. I also think that our submarine was torpedoed. For this +!
      2. Mirrors
        Mirrors 10 September 2013 21: 19
        +3
        They probably wrote about the "komenz-site" after hearing the audio recording made during the interview. It often happens - the girl heard and wrote. Any sailor knows what coaming is and that one shouldn't stumble over it :-)
        1. shpuntik
          shpuntik 10 September 2013 23: 30
          +2
          Spiegel RU Today, 21:19 PM ↑
          They probably wrote about the "komenz-site" after hearing the audio recording made during the interview.

          Yes, I went to the site, this journalist is distorting everything. Here, the article is not all.
          On Kursk, he hesitated, did not say that the coaming platform was damaged, he said: "We could not." And that they could not, it is not clear. I didn't lie well. After all, this was the official reason that they could not dock. From 34 minutes. hi


          [media = http: //www.echo.msk.ru/programs/voensovet/1146666-echo/]
          1. shpuntik
            shpuntik 10 September 2013 23: 48
            +3
            PS At the 23rd minute, he says that "the rubber interfered a little" and immediately refers to the conclusions of the commission. This once again confirms that the witnesses were removed.
    5. Misantrop
      Misantrop 10 September 2013 18: 00
      +5
      Probably, they wanted to identify combat swimmers in the school. She is very strong in the Far East.

      The article is not bad. That's just not "komenz", but a coaming area (coaming is a threshold)

      And another incomprehensible question - about safe submarines. belay It’s only in the form of a museum installed on the shore lol
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 11 September 2013 17: 37
        +1
        Quote: Misantrop
        That's just not "komenz", but a coaming area (coaming is a threshold)

        coaming pad
        A hull structure designed to dock a rescue deep-sea vehicle or rescue bell with an emergency underwater object, mounted above its rescue or access hatch.
        [GOST R 52206-2004]
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 11 September 2013 20: 37
          0
          Quote: Corsair
          coaming pad

          Slightly "exaggerated" scheme for evacuating the crew of an emergency submarine using an emergency "bell".
          I hope the elements of this system do not need additional explanations ...

          Clickable Image:
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 11 September 2013 20: 43
          -1
          Quote: Corsair
          coaming pad

          ACC docking example
        3. shpuntik
          shpuntik 12 September 2013 16: 20
          0
          Corsair (1) RU Yesterday, 17:37 ↑
          Quote: Misantrop
          That's just not "komenz", but a coaming area (coaming is a threshold)

          coaming pad
          [GOST R 52206-2004]

          Corsair hi , ask now the stupid "misanthrope troll" how this ring bent in the shape of a washer-grover? And poke his nose in the video I gave above, an interview with SHAIKHUTDINOV, where he says that the site was not damaged. And then, he is on my black list, I don't have enough nerves to fight him. Everything is trying to knock down the people: they say there was no equipment, divers, etc., etc.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 13 September 2013 13: 14
            -1
            Quote: shpuntik
            Corsair, now ask the stupid "misanthrope troll" how this ring was bent in the shape of a washer-grover? And poke his nose in the video I gave above, an interview with SHAIKHUTDINOV, where he says that the site was not damaged.

            Unfortunately, the video was not found request .
            As for deformed coaming, I can not judge without sufficiently substantiated and convincing evidence.

            I can tell you that the coaming site is a structural element of the lightweight body, and its deformation is possible in almost two cases:

            - mechanical effect on the coaming itself;

            -deformation of the light submarine hull and, as a consequence, the object of discussion ...

            And in both cases, it’s even scary to imagine what kind of physical effect should have been applied.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 14 September 2013 01: 14
              +1
              Quote: Corsair
              it’s even scary to guess what kind of physical effect should have been applied.
              The son of the pilot of that rescue apparatus (the pilot himself was no longer alive by this time, alas) replied to me that, in my father’s opinion, the destruction of the site was caused by the displacement of the solid hull relatively light when it hit the ground. Strange, of course, thinner than usual designs are usually specially arranged around this ring. It is to prevent its deformation. By the way, the photo above is not the coaming site itself, but its protective cover made of thin duralumin. The boatswain personally lays these covers upon the arrival of the ship at the base, from accidental damage. And the ring itself is not made of stainless steel, but of case steel. Solid forged, polished. Height, if memory serves, 60 cm. And the question of this crack arose after a colleague himself saw this site in the dock with his own eyes.
              Quote: shpuntik
              And poke his nose in the video that I gave above, an interview with SHAIKHUTDINOV, where he says that the site was not damaged.

              Whoever would ... (the filter does not pass) poked his nose ... Fuck theorist
  2. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 10 September 2013 16: 05
    +5
    Good luck and less work. hi
    1. NEMO
      NEMO 10 September 2013 16: 55
      +5
      Quote: Andrew Peter
      Good luck and less work.

      Less work, and exercises and training bigger:
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 10 September 2013 19: 30
        0
        Quote: NEMO
        Less work, and more exercises and training:

        Well, you generally posted a diving suit. This "cosmonaut" is already 300 years old.
        Didn’t find a modern one?
        1. AlNikolaich
          AlNikolaich 10 September 2013 23: 08
          +1
          Quote: APASUS
          Well, you generally posted a diving suit. This "cosmonaut" is already 300 years old.

          The classic three-bolt is like a three-ruler. Our everything!
  3. Mercenary
    Mercenary 10 September 2013 16: 32
    +6
    article + but the question arises from Amer torpedoes, what smashed Kursk how to save?
    1. Dangerous
      Dangerous 10 September 2013 22: 53
      0
      no way. The appearance of American submarines was prosralized, and in response they pissed off on them
  4. sub307
    sub307 10 September 2013 16: 36
    +4
    In the 90s, this service was undergoing practical defeat. Now, something like that is changing for the better. Good luck in the difficult service!
    1. vlad.svargin
      vlad.svargin 10 September 2013 17: 10
      +5
      We were very struck by the helplessness of the rescue services on the Kursk. In our time, a lot of attention and funds were paid to this service. Every six months the crew went down to the IDA. And so much bitterness had to be experienced in this tragedy, and the guys could have been saved. Article "+" with Nice to read about the restoration of the ACC.
  5. seller trucks
    seller trucks 10 September 2013 16: 38
    +8
    This is final, everything is important and good, but as the saying goes, "the rescue of drowning is the work of the drowning themselves", if the fire on the ship could not be extinguished within 15 minutes, the crew leaves the ship, I do not remember how long with a hole, I mean that from the skill , the coherence and training of the crew depends on their life and the combat capability of the ship, such are the realities, I personally had to extinguish the fire on my killer twice (fortunately, they were being repaired), once it could cost me my life, you know brothers, God forbid. And as for the rescue ships, I can say that if they did not immediately escape, the chances are 0, in Barentsukh in cold water you have 4 minutes, like this. why is this monologue? everything is simple. there should be no "random" and unprepared people on the ship, otherwise you are a corpse

    I also want to add, this is not a "special caste", but the Fleet of auxiliary ships, there are no "non-important" ships in this Fleet, all the Main ones, because everything is paid for by human lives
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 10 September 2013 23: 34
      0
      Quote: seller trucks
      This is final, everything is important and good, but as they say, "the rescue of drowning is the work of the drowning themselves", if the fire on the ship could not be extinguished within 15 minutes, the crew leaves the ship, I do not remember how long with a hole ...


      In the Soviet Navy and Russian Navy BZHK conducted to the last lineWE ARE NOT AMERICOS RUNNING FROM SHIPS AS RATS ...
      Okaki "MINUTES" Are you talking? fool

      Chronological excerpts from the tragedy of the nuclear submarine "Komsomolets":

      April 7 1989 years, while in combat service, K-278 followed at a depth of 386 meters at a speed of 6-8 knots. In the morning, the combat shift was on duty as usual.

      В 11.00 the watchman, captain-lieutenant Alexander Verezgov, received reports from the compartments. From the seventh, the sailor Nodari Bukhnikashvili reported: “The seventh was examined, insulation resistance and gas composition of the air are normal. There are no comments. ” These were his last words.

      Between 11.00 and 11.03 a fire started in the aft compartment. AT 11.03 the signal on the watch mechanic’s control panel lights up: “The temperature in the seventh compartment is more than 70 degrees”. The watchman mechanic, captain of 3 rank Vyacheslav Yudin, immediately announced: “Emergency alarm”.
      12.26 - the boat began to emit coded distress signals that could not be received by foreign rescue services.
      14.20 - The commander of the rescue aircraft made contact with the commander of the submarine. It was reported from the boat that although the fire was continuing, it was controlled by a crew that kept the fire from growing. There are no requests. When the “Komsomolets” surfaced, the crew managed to localize the fire in the seventh compartment, give Freon into the sixth compartment and seal the rest.
      **********************************************
      15.20 - the boat continues to struggle with fire. Her commander constantly keeps in touch through airplanes with the shore. He is in a confident mood, only one request has been received - the tug needs to approach them. This could mean only one thing: the submarine lost its course. Apparently, fearing the consequences of the fire, the reactor was shut off on it.
      16.00 - the boat commander suddenly requested freon. The rescue plane contacted the ships, they promised to find the right amount in their supplies.

      16.35 - the pilots suddenly noticed that the boat began to sink to the stern. From that moment on, events began to develop rapidly.

      Due to the high temperature, the oil seals of the pipelines connecting the interior of the boat with the outboard environment burnt out. Water began to spread rapidly through compartments adjacent to the emergency. It became clear that the tightness of the rugged case was broken. Probably, the titanium plating could not withstand the temperature difference (several hundred degrees in the seventh compartment and only plus two overboard). The boat surfaced, but its position became more and more dangerous every minute: the stern part in the eyes went into the water, and the nose rose higher and higher. It became clear that there was no hope of saving her.

      “Everyone leave the compartments! Rafts on the water! ”- ordered the commander of the ship. Semyon Grigoryan began to disconnect them from the hull of the boat - it took too much time. The mounts did not give in. The ship was sinking, aft part falling down.

      16.44 - The submarine sinks with a strong trim aft. Water approached the base of the conning tower.

      This is a brief chronology, more detailed can be found at:http://dead-city.ru/transport/
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 10 September 2013 23: 42
        +2
        There was no report on the watch at 11.00. The fire was already developing by this time 20-30 minutes. The logbook was added later.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 11 September 2013 17: 48
          -1
          Quote: rudolff
          There was no report on the watch at 11.00. The fire was already developing by this time 20-30 minutes. The logbook was added later.

          That is, do you think the magazine is falsified?
          Then take the trouble to explain HOW ...
          HOW could ANOTHER ONE (previously unexisting) could be included in the entries in the STRICT chronology of the record?
          1. rudolff
            rudolff 11 September 2013 23: 40
            +1
            There a lot of things were added later. Or it was written about what was not or what was not convinced. In particular, the inclusion of Loch. And that sailor-watchman was probably already dead by 11.00:XNUMX.
  6. nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 10 September 2013 16: 47
    +4
    The existing old devices are sucked in with a roll of up to 15 degrees, the rescue bell is up to 30, but the built-in rescue apparatus “Bestor-1”, which is currently located in Nizhny Novgorod, where it imitates deep-sea immersion in the dock chamber, has a special device, allowing you to stick to a submarine with a roll or trim up to 45 degrees.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Therefore, Kursk was also sawed and foreigners raised the bathyscaphe in Kamchatka. The salvation of the crew (aircraft, ship, tank, etc.) is the primary task. When you know that they will try to pull you out a little warmer, and when you know that you’re glad, there’s nothing you always want to do for a feat.
  7. K-36
    K-36 10 September 2013 17: 15
    +8
    [quote = seller trucks] This is final, everything is important and good, but as they say "the rescue of drowning is the work of the drowning themselves", if the fire on the ship could not be extinguished within 15 minutes, the crew leaves the ship, I do not remember how long with a hole I mean that their life and the combat capability of the ship depend on the skill, coordination and training of the crew, such are the realities, I personally had to extinguish the fire on my killer twice (fortunately, they were being repaired), once it could cost me my life, you know brothers, God forbid ... And as for the rescue ships, I can say that if they did not immediately escape, the chances are 0, in Barentsukha in cold water you have 4 minutes, like this. why is this monologue? everything is simple. there should be no "random" and unprepared people on the ship, otherwise you are a corpse
    I have already addressed VN Barantz in his blog "Man with a Gun" about the immediate production of high-speed rescue boats and rescue aircraft of the Be-200 type for the needs of the fleets. Baranets kept silent ... And the temperature = "+4 degrees" in water gives only 10-15 minutes of life. Here is KB them. Alekseeva in Nizhny Novgorod has developed an ekranoplan "Rescuer" (http://www.snariad.ru/otherships/otherships_spasateli/) precisely in the wake of the sinking of the nuclear submarine "Komsomolets". And Where is this ekranoplan?!?
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 10 September 2013 17: 56
      +4
      Quote: K-36
      I have already addressed VN Barantz in his blog "Man with a Gun" about the immediate production of high-speed rescue boats and rescue aircraft of the Be-200 type for the needs of the fleets.


      who is against it? I'm a little about the other, the crew training and the ability to use personal protective equipment, even if there are 10-15 minutes, Be-200 will not be in time. In my memory, there was a case in Kola, the ship iced up and became a keel up, the entire crew of 30 people died.
      1. sub307
        sub307 10 September 2013 18: 12
        +3
        Right in the Kola Bay? Maybe all the same anywhere in the Barents Sea. Icing of a ship is a phenomenon known for many years to no generation of sailors. And there are methods of dealing with it: at least - simple chipping of ice. But on the transition, during a "good" storm in a "good" frost - such a combination of circumstances can become fatal. And that's not always, people asked. They fell off their feet, but coped. But not in the bay, where, on relatively calm water, 30 crew members calmly watched as their vessel slowly but surely loses lateral stability during icing. "We swam, we know."
        1. shpuntik
          shpuntik 10 September 2013 20: 04
          +3
          sub307 SU Today, 18:12 ↑
          But not in the bay, where on relatively calm water 30 crew members calmly watched their ship slowly but surely lose lateral stability during icing.

          There are different bays in different weathers. I didn’t hear about the Kola Bay, I struggled with icing, but there is such a wind when there is not enough strength. Here is an example when one person was just removed from the keel.
          As a result of a severe storm, accompanied by frosts of up to 21 degrees and intense icing, January 19, p. the middle fishing trawlers “Boksitogorsk”, “Sevsk”, “Sebezh” and “Nakhichevan”, which were fishing in the Bering Sea, were killed. The Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR express deep condolences to the families of the sailors of the Soviet fishing fleet who died at their post.

          TRUTH, February 11, 1965
    2. shpuntik
      shpuntik 10 September 2013 18: 31
      +6
      K-36 Today, 17:15
      Baranets kept silent ... And the temperature = "+4 degrees" in water gives only 10-15 minutes of life. Here is KB them. Alekseeva in Nizhny Novgorod has developed an ekranoplan "Rescuer" (http://www.snariad.ru/otherships/otherships_spasateli/) precisely in the wake of the sinking of the nuclear submarine "Komsomolets". And Where is this ekranoplan?!?

      You are right about "all 100", only instead of the Be-200 the "Albatross" could be used, it is larger and more seaworthy.
      And hde this ekranoplan?!?
      No team from above, no money. Not up to the authorities. They are waiting for everything to fall apart by itself. The article is about nothing. Sea fraternity is exploited, used in the article, they say everything is fine, it's okay, be calm.
      I saw how "Belousov" was built, stood in the shop for several years. I quote:
      The rescue vessel "Igor Belousov" of project 21300 was laid down in 2005.

      Until they achieved an increase in funding and the installation of the Italian complex, they did not calm down.
      The developer proposed to postpone the deadline for at least 2015, increase funding by 1,3 billion rubles, and attract an Italian company for development.

      15.03.2012
      Captain 1st Rank Boris Kirik, Head of the 208th Military Representation of the Ministry of Defense at JSC Admiralty Shipyards, was dismissed ahead of schedule by order of Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov dated March 6, 2012 due to his refusal to sign documents on replacing the domestic deep-sea diving complex for rescue vessel of project 21300 "Viktor Belousov" for the import complex

      CTD
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 10 September 2013 19: 45
        +3
        Lieutenant colonel
        shpuntik RU Today, 18:31 ↑
        Until they achieved an increase in funding and the installation of the Italian complex, they did not calm down.

        I will correct here: DIVEX is an English company. All the same, the total of one to 30 of our enterprises was thrown. Confident, muddy cuisine: it turns out that "Lazurit" did not specialize in this, he wanted to get 175 million as a general contractor, and then asked for even more: General Director of the Central Design Bureau "Lazurit" Mikhail Vaynerman.
        At the same time, Alexandrov signed a contract without any special obligations:
        The Nizhny Novgorod Central Design Bureau "Lazurit", having completed the development of the technical design of GVK-450, concluded a contract with the construction plant for the development of design documentation (design documentation) / and the creation of a prototype of the complex - with a fixed price and deadline, but which did not actually involve the contractor's responsibility for installation, testing and delivery to the customer GVK in the ship.

        The result is known: now we will never be able to produce our own GCs. There was an opportunity to revive production, but the state money went to the English workers. Unfortunately. Here is a comparable project, up to 250 meters:
        http://severdv.ru/news/show/?id=20842&search=%EF%E5%F2%F0%EE%EF%E0%E2%EB%EE%E2%F

        1% EA% E5 & order = d & p = 165
        http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/21300_2011_01.html
        1. gunnerminer
          gunnerminer 11 September 2013 00: 03
          +3
          Lazurit and Tethys About banal crooks. The creation of the GVK will end in a criminal case. The timing of the SS mooring trials Igor Belousov shifted to the right by two months.
  8. Misantrop
    Misantrop 10 September 2013 18: 09
    +2
    Quote: seller trucks
    crew training and the ability to use personal protective equipment, even if there are 10-15 minutes, the Be-200 will not be in time.
    And further. Cases when under the keel less than 200-300 m for the ocean fleet are very rare. So even more depends on crew training and equipment reliability. And if there is also an ice field above your head, then the BZ becomes the destiny of the crew exclusively.

    At our end of the pier, the depth was already 120 m
  9. shpuntik
    shpuntik 10 September 2013 18: 16
    +4
    - Can one submarine approach the other and take personnel from board to board?

    - In the Soviet Union there were two submarines of the 940 project Linok. And the experience of saving this way was.

    Now we are gone from this. You know, preparing lifeguards for the sake of lifeguards is unreasonable. It makes sense to direct efforts in other areas, such as the creation of safe submarines and the development of a training network for training submariners. By the way, now our submariners are almost 100 percent - contract soldiers.

    Or I didn’t understand anything, or maybe someone understood, will explain to me? This phrase is highlighted in red, what does it mean? what
  10. rudolff
    rudolff 10 September 2013 18: 31
    +4
    Shpuntik, everything is outrageously simple! If an accident occurs already on the rescue boat, then the crew will have to be rescued by "traditional" methods. Rescuers rescuing rescuers. The inference is certainly delusional!
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 10 September 2013 18: 52
      -2
      You can minus, but in a real war there is no place for rescuers and nurses. Unfortunately.
      PS The film "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" Pts I love, although I do not share the methods of fighting mensha Untra (funny, although I want to cry). And kaG usually - and so on and so on
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 10 September 2013 21: 51
        +1
        Quote: nikcris
        in real war there is no place for rescuers and nurses.
        According to statistics, 8 out of 10 wounded of the Red Army returned to service after treatment (the Germans had only two). After the wound, did the fighters get to the medical battalion themselves?
  11. rudolff
    rudolff 10 September 2013 19: 05
    +5
    I read the article and it seemed that I had heard something like this somewhere. Deja vu. Then I remembered. Thirteen years ago, in August. "Our divers work at depths of up to 60 meters", "we have problems over 60 meters", "rescue vessels providing work up to 200 meters, once or twice and ... no more", "We don't need Links" ...
    And there was no crack on the coaming platform. There were dead batteries at the speaker, there were worn-out O-rings, there was a "guessing" underwater command from the surface, there were divers "up to 60 meters" ...
    1. shpuntik
      shpuntik 10 September 2013 20: 29
      +1
      rudolff SU Today, 19:05 AM
      And there was no crack at the coaming site.

      The article is delusional, similar to an interview with the commander of the Pacific Fleet, ibid. Immediately after the APEC summit appeared, they say everything is in order, wait in 2020.
      About the crack in coaming, is there infa? Photo or video? Interested in evidence.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 10 September 2013 21: 54
      +1
      Quote: rudolff
      And there was no crack at the coaming site. There were dead batteries on the speaker, there were worn o-rings

      During the operation of the drainage pump, suction to the coaming is even without any rubber gasket. That's just the landing ring was not only burst, but it also twisted (it turned out a giant analog of the Grover washer). Naturally, with such damage, there can be no question of any suction
    3. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 11 September 2013 00: 01
      +4
      And there was no crack on the coaming platform. There were dead batteries on the speaker, there were worn out O-rings, there was a "guessing" underwater command from the surface, there were divers "up to 60 meters."


      Yes!
  12. nikcris
    nikcris 10 September 2013 19: 09
    +3
    Quote: shpuntik
    He didn't say anything about Kursk, why did the foreigners work? Why couldn't you dock? There is no detail, there is no photo of the allegedly damaged comming site, what type of damage, what is damaged - the same silence. Apparently the "thick torpedo" damaged it, it is so "thick" that it reached the ninth compartment, hit [/ i] [/ b]

    Are you a torpedo attack of a probable enemy (it’s impossible to name them differently on the site)? A neat hole in the starboard side of rabid seals?
    1. desava
      desava 10 September 2013 20: 19
      -2
      Leave you behind the "neat" hole in the board! This is not a hole, but a technological hole. A torpedo whose speed is about 70 km / h cannot leave an even hole in a solid body more than 15 mm thick - this is not a kinetic projectile with enormous energy !!!
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 10 September 2013 23: 02
        +1
        desava RU Today, 20:19 ↑
        Leave you behind the "neat" hole in the board! This is not a hole, but a technological hole. A torpedo whose speed is about 70 km / h cannot leave robust case with a thickness of more than 15 mm An even hole is not a kinetic projectile with tremendous energy !!!

        Denis hi Firstly: not 70 km / h, but 50 knots, this is 92 km / h. (Imagine a 1-ton passenger car crashing into a wall at a speed of 90 km / h. Imagine? And, now the same thing, only 1,5 times more mass and a smaller area. 15 mm steel will tear unequivocally.)
        Secondly: a sturdy case of 70 mm. This photo is on a lightweight body.
        Thirdly: the hole is larger than the diameter of the torpedo, it was cut off at the edges later, after lifting. And the hole in the sturdy case fell on the edge of the edge of the first compartment, this can be seen in the photo.
        Fourth: On what basis do you deny the cumulative effect? Is it impossible under water? If there is such data, throw the link.
        Fifth: Technological hole: for what, the number of the frame, an example on another loaf. You served, built on it?
        1. Andrey from Tver
          Andrey from Tver 11 September 2013 03: 36
          +5
          He personally saw how a boat came into the base, and a torpedo stuck from her side. Naturally, educational. The hole was about a meter above the waterline, a torpedo sticking out at an angle of 15-20 degrees.
          It was in the bay of Pavlovsky, Primorsky Territory, in 1990.
          The boat that received the torpedo on board was called "Shuttle" at that time, I don't remember the project number. A boat 671 RTM fired. Both from 26 divisions. And I have a photo of this boat (Shuttle) with a torpedo on board. Now the scanner is not available, if necessary I will post the photo later.
          The light torpedo hull then struck, but didn’t reach the solid hull for about half a meter.
          So the torpedo pierces the light body.
          1. shpuntik
            shpuntik 11 September 2013 15: 59
            +1
            Andrey from Tver RU Today, 03:36 ↑
            He personally saw how a boat came into the base, and a torpedo stuck from her side. Naturally, educational. The hole was about a meter above the waterline, a torpedo sticking out at an angle of 15-20 degrees.
            So the torpedo pierces the light body.

            Andrei hi , thanks for the support. I myself did not see it personally, I affirmed on the basis of my knowledge and experience working with metal. If there is a photo, discard it in PM, I will be grateful. One photo can say everything, no need to waste time on bickering.
            1. Andrey from Tver
              Andrey from Tver 13 September 2013 13: 49
              +1
              Here is a photo. I want to add that the hull at the boat was not rubberized.
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 11 September 2013 17: 09
            -1
            Quote: Andrey from Tver
            He personally saw how a boat came into the base, and a torpedo stuck from her side. Naturally, educational.
            Well, what is the diameter of the hole from this torpedo? And what were the edges of the hole? Or was a ballistic missile fired at the Kursk that such a hole had formed?
            1. Kars
              Kars 11 September 2013 17: 15
              +3
              Quote: Andrey from Tver
              a boat went into the base, and a torpedo stuck out of it
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 11 September 2013 17: 48
                0
                In 1976, in one of the DPL 613 projects in Feodosia, a sailor fell out of the deckhouse onto the deckhouse. He broke his legs and ... punched a hole in the flooring (there were very elderly submarines in that brigade). Is it possible, on this basis, to argue that a light body can be pierced by a kick of the foot? After all, the precedent happened ... lol
        2. desava
          desava 11 September 2013 05: 53
          0
          Quote: shpuntik
          not 70 km / h, but 50 knots, this is 92 km / h.

          It doesn’t matter - in a hurry and under emotions, laziness was transferred from bonds to km / h.
          Quote: shpuntik
          Secondly: a sturdy case of 70 mm. This photo is on a lightweight body.

          In lasting - also wrong - to blame. Now I just remembered the photo. LK - ice belt 15 mm.
          Quote: shpuntik
          Fourth: On what basis do you deny the cumulative effect? Is it impossible under water?

          Based on the lack of ammunition, both with us and with NATO with a similar effect.
          Quote: shpuntik
          the hole is larger than the diameter of the torpedo, it was cut off at the edges later, after raising

          What do you think: if Mk46 pulled, would there be a hole in the LC? It would be torn damage with an area of ​​10 meters minimum.

          Quote: shpuntik
          You served, built on it?

          No. I studied at the institute for the corresponding specialty and am familiar with both the drawings of this project and its capabilities.
          1. desava
            desava 11 September 2013 06: 19
            +1
            Quote: desava
            jerked MK46

            Amendment Mk48. Add about the cumulative effect. How did you even get such an assumption of cumulative effect for a torpedo? She has too low speed, the nose of the torpedo is not hollow (which is an indispensable condition for a cumulative ammunition), but with guidance equipment.
            I do not understand why people try to justify such a theory (the death of the Kursk APRK from a torpedo hit)? Torpedoes are not aimed at the bow of the ships - well, it does not make noise as much as in the stern of the midsection where the power plant is installed.
            1. gunnerminer
              gunnerminer 11 September 2013 10: 57
              0
              I do not understand why people try to justify such a theory (the death of the Kursk APRK from a torpedo hit)? Torpedoes are not aimed at the bow of the ships - well, it does not make noise as much as in the stern of the midsection where the power plant is installed.


              That's right! No torpedoes are aimed at the bow. The version of the death of Kursk due to the torpedo attack of the submarine extends from the filing of the former KKSF admiral Popov, the same dishonorable former NSF KSF admiral Motsak, who admitted to the submarine’s training under the sky-ready ACC KSF.
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 11 September 2013 17: 02
                0
                Quote: gunnerminer
                The version of the death of Kursk due to a torpedo attack of a submarine is distributed at the service of Admiral Popov, the former KKSF, who had lost conscience and honor, and Admiral Motsak, the same dishonorable former NSF KSF,admitting access to the submarine’s exercises at the sky-ready ACC KSF.
                ... which by that time had already been canceled several years ago with the cessation of their financing ... What planet are you writing from? Motsak and Popov should have at their own expense the strength of the ACC?
                1. gunnerminer
                  gunnerminer 11 September 2013 22: 55
                  0
                  which by that time had already been canceled several years ago with the cessation of their financing ... What planet are you writing from? Motsak and Popov should have at their own expense the strength of the ACC?


                  The fleet commander was supposed to report to the naval team’s gambler Admiral Kuroyedov about the inconsistency of the declared combat readiness of the CSF, only to fulfill his functional duties, or to personally contact the Minister of Defense if he was so sick about the combat readiness of the fleet and the 7th division in particular.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 12 September 2013 10: 02
                    -1
                    Quote: gunnerminer
                    The fleet commander was supposed to report to the naval team leader Admiral Kuroyedov about the inconsistency of the declared combat readiness of the KSF, just to fulfill his functional duties. Or to personally contact the Minister of Defense

                    And he was not aware ("the king was not reported") lol In other words, ALL officers and admirals of the Northern Fleet should have put the report on the table and resigned, right? Then many people left (including myself). Precisely for the reason that it was impossible to do anything, and to look at all this there was neither strength nor health ... And the rest had to leave? But would the Russian Federation now have a fleet in general? Or would "effective managers" quickly cut him down on pins and needles?
                    1. gunnerminer
                      gunnerminer 12 September 2013 12: 05
                      0
                      In other words, ALL officers and admirals of the Northern Fleet should have put the report on the table and resigned, right? Then many people left (including myself). Precisely for the reason that it was impossible to do anything, and to look at all this there was neither strength nor health ... And the rest had to leave? But would the Russian Federation now have a fleet in general? Or would "effective managers" quickly cut him down on pins and needles?


                      Not all KSF officers served in the crew and in the submarines. Everyone decides to leave or not, many did not ask, they reduced, going for legal tricks. I remember well the first mass reduction of the KSF in 1985, when 211 submarine crews and 4 squadrons were completely reduced. Then the second wave in 1989. when the wave of contractions passed through the formations of surface ships and weapon bases (TTB, RTB, TRB). The next massive organizational events in 1994-1995,1998-2000. In general, there is someone to think about the fleet (ironically). When to us deputies from the General Staff of the Navy or KKSF deputies came to the association, my bosses and colleagues seemed to me to inspect the inspectors somewhere in the Troms base in the Russian Navy and drop them by parachute at night. The gap from reality was complete, delays in the payment of money allowances, interruptions in food supply, problems of combat training were a curiosity for them. Particularly surprising was not the knowledge of the text of the directives, but their signatures.
            2. shpuntik
              shpuntik 11 September 2013 16: 07
              +1
              desava RU Today, 06:19 ↑
              Quote: desava
              Torpedoes are not aimed at the bow of the ships - well, it doesn’t make noise like in the stern of the midship, where the power plant is installed.

              I'm not sure what is not induced. There are several guidance channels: by wake, by noise, by magnetic field. At the final stage, the tip is in the active sonar mode, the length of the boat allows you to create a picture, divide it into four to five parts, and correct it 20 meters from the edge; e / brains now allow this, take for example drones on an aircraft carrier.
              1. desava
                desava 11 September 2013 16: 38
                0
                Everything is bad at all ... Torpedoes are not induced by the magnetic field, by the wake of the track (NATO exactly). Guidance at NATO torpedoes is carried out: from large distances - combined (telecasting by wire then active or passive GOS), from small GOS immediately, but mind you - acoustic. On torpedoes there is no possibility and place for installing guidance devices on a magnetic field. Yes, and it’s more reliable to use the good old methods - they justify themselves completely. As for the adjustment of 20 m - I agree, there is a lead in the lead, but not 100 meters in the end!?!
                1. desava
                  desava 11 September 2013 18: 34
                  +1
                  I will add to my comment about guidance. In tele-guidance, the operator is guided by the data of the GAS operating in passive mode. Magnetometers for detecting submarines are used on airplanes (remember, what tree sticks out at the P-3 "Orion" at the base of the tail unit) and buoys. I have either never heard of examples of magnetometers being used by submarines, or I don’t remember any more.
                2. old man54
                  old man54 11 September 2013 23: 20
                  0
                  Quote: desava
                  Everything is bad at all ... Torpedoes are not induced by the magnetic field, by the wake of the track (NATO exactly). Guidance at NATO torpedoes is carried out: from large distances - combined (telecasting by wire then active or passive GOS), from small GOS immediately, but mind you - acoustic.

                  You think like a real dilettante, but a dilettante who goes out of his way to prove his "rightness". Your childish bloopers in your comments higher up the thread all of this more than eloquently emphasize. Your knowledge of torpedo weapons is at the level of the 70s / 80s of the last century, and also gleaned from Wikipedia. Sorry, it's boring further!
                  1. desava
                    desava 12 September 2013 06: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: old man54
                    You think like a real dilettante, but a dilettante who goes out of his way to prove his "rightness".

                    Good. Let's say an amateur. How then torpedoes are now being induced? If you have the opportunity - tell me, I have all the attention. As for the skin - out - a delusion. I am always ready to change my position when learning new facts. For this, in fact, I am present on this resource. An example would be Oleg Kaptsov, who really proved to me that there is no need for ekranoplanes.
                    Yours! hi
          2. shpuntik
            shpuntik 11 September 2013 15: 55
            0
            Colonel
            desava RU Today, 05:53 ↑
            No. I studied at the institute for the corresponding specialty and am familiar with both the drawings of this project and its capabilities.

            Okay, then tell me what this "technological manhole" is for, what frame?
            If there is this cutout on other "loaves", discard the link to the photo or diagram. The drawing is not necessary, it is for official use. Just say in words the function of this cut.
            What do you think: if Mk46 pulled, would there be a hole in the LC? It would be torn damage with an area of ​​10 meters minimum.

            I repeat, it exploded inside the boat. How is a solid body overcome, I do not know. There may be a double explosion, metal may be burning under water, as during gas cutting or welding, the body itself in the nose has such a shell. For example: a termite mixture of aluminum, iron and magnesium. I can not say exactly. But the fact that the explosion inside the boat is more effective is understandable to everyone. The Americans apparently solved this problem.
            1. desava
              desava 11 September 2013 18: 22
              0
              Quote: shpuntik
              Okay, then tell me what this "technological manhole" is for, what frame?

              By what frame - I have no idea and I don’t see the point in looking for drawings. Laz - for anything - access to the structures of the Central City Hospital in the dock, access for divers when lifting (in this case, it was cut by welding under water), but for what it’s convenient and enough for imagination.
              We drove on ...
              Quote: shpuntik
              I repeat, it exploded inside the boat.

              There is no need to pierce the PC submarine in order to do more damage inside the case. This applies to surface ships with a large margin of buoyancy and greater survivability compared to submarines when submerged. The submarine in the underwater position is in equilibrium and any increase in its mass (for example, the inflow of overboard water through the hole) abruptly leads to its immersion, and the immersion with acceleration because the hull is compressed and the buoyancy (depending in turn on the volume) is reduced. It is enough for the hull to inflict damage the size of a pack of cigarettes so that the submarine does not have time to compensate for negative buoyancy due to the lifting force of the hull.
              Quote: shpuntik
              There may be a double explosion, metal may be burning under water, as during gas cutting or welding, the body itself in the nose has such a shell. For example: a termite mixture of aluminum, iron and magnesium.

              Well, here ... well, I don't know what to say .... I just imagined this picture: a torpedo clung to the submarine's hull and "burns" it ... Competently I assure you - it's pointless!
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 12 September 2013 10: 07
                0
                Quote: desava
                I just imagined this picture: a torpedo clung to the submarine's hull and "burns" it ... Competently I assure you - it's pointless!
                If you carefully look at the edges of the hole, it turns out that there are NO signs of a gas cutter or grinder (or something similar). A hole of such a shape and with such an edge can be made ONLY in the factory. But this simple fact absolutely doesn’t crawl into the heads full of conspiracy theories to failure ... request
              2. shpuntik
                shpuntik 12 September 2013 22: 16
                +1
                desava RU Yesterday, 18:22 ↑
                What frame - I don’t have a clue and I don’t see the point in looking for drawings. Laz - for anything - access to the structures of the Central City Hospital in the dock, access for divers when lifting (in this case, it was cut by welding under water), but for what it’s convenient and enough for imagination.

                Stop, stop !!! Respected. What do you mean do not see the point? Each hole has a name and purpose, you said tech. why, why? Let's not fantasize. You know the project, you know which tank is on Pr.B., so you must know the purpose of the hole. Please provide the name and preferably the frame number. The bulkhead between 1 and 2 compartments goes on 22 frames. According to my information, there should not be any hole in the tank, especially in the middle. There are sump valves at the bottom and top of the tank, that's all. The remaining holes are from the side of the robust housing: VVD valves, fuel valves on diesel engines, are mounted. If TA comes out, then there should be a cover, a breakwater. If cut out later, I agree, possibly. But for what? If a strong body is cut off on this frame, there is access from either side without this hole. Again, the concavity around the hole is obvious. Therefore, let's not fantasize. If there are facts, please go to the studio.


                Photos do not increase, unfortunately: here are the past comments topwar.ru/index.php?cstart=5&do=lastcomments&userid=24859#comment
    2. shpuntik
      shpuntik 10 September 2013 20: 25
      0
      Foreman
      nikcris (1) RU Today, 19:09
      Are you a torpedo attack of a probable enemy (it’s impossible to name them differently on the site)? A neat hole in the starboard side of rabid seals?

      I do not dismiss this, I so quietly hint at this absurdity. Look at my comments on Kursk, where I brought the "Misanthrope" to the surface. He put up some lazy pictures and claimed that this hole was a technological CGB, and that there was no hole on the inside (in a solid case). He once served in BC-5, 20 years ago, in principle, literate, but he missed Kursk.
      He trolled this topic subtly, had to risk the position of a moderator, vindyuril him 10 warnings, so as not to sneer at the "Course". As a result: he is on my black list. hi
  13. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 10 September 2013 19: 15
    +1
    Quote: nikcris
    You can minus, but in a real war there is no place for rescuers and nurses. Unfortunately.
    PS The film "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" Pts I love, although I do not share the methods of fighting mensha Untra (funny, although I want to cry). And kaG usually - and so on and so on

    The film shows a completely different situation. This is, let’s say, a local, unpredictable conflict. And ask veterans who have been in real battles, I think those who were saved are very grateful to these divisions. Or at least watch other films about the Second World War. Yes, it’s not so simple, but they also contributed and often themselves suffered no less.
  14. nikcris
    nikcris 10 September 2013 19: 18
    +3
    Quote: nikcris
    Quote: shpuntik
    He didn't say anything about Kursk, why did the foreigners work? Why couldn't you dock? There is no detail, there is no photo of the allegedly damaged comming site, what type of damage, what is damaged - the same silence. Apparently the "thick torpedo" damaged it, it is so "thick" that it reached the ninth compartment, hit [/ i] [/ b]

    Are you a torpedo attack of a probable enemy (it’s impossible to name them differently on the site)? A neat hole in the starboard side of rabid seals?

    Well answer! Where did such a giant drill from under water come from? And don't tell me what the Chinese are doing on Mondays.
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 10 September 2013 19: 34
      +2
      And our guarantor said that she drowned. Give a link?

      What do I have epaulets on the site changing at an unimaginable speed. In the USSR, stars were added to me once every two years. Although I did not deserve it.
      1. Arabist
        Arabist 10 September 2013 19: 37
        0
        And what, from the explosion of a torpedo a neat hole is formed?
        1. desava
          desava 10 September 2013 20: 22
          -2
          nikcris compared the shell of the guns with a torpedo and apparently did not think about the physics of the process of impact and explosion.
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous 10 September 2013 23: 01
            +1
            Do not dump everything in one pile. There are different types of torpedoes. They (torpedoes) are not required to explode at the moment of contact. The peculiarity of this Mk48 torpedo is that it first pierces the hull of the boat and only then explodes inside.
            1. Kars
              Kars 10 September 2013 23: 08
              +1
              Quote: Dangerous
              The peculiarity of this Mk48 torpedo is that it first pierces the hull of the boat and only then explodes inside.

              And where is it written? And do not tell me why the torpedo pierces the corpus?


              http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_PostWWII.htm
            2. Misantrop
              Misantrop 10 September 2013 23: 33
              -1
              Quote: Dangerous
              The peculiarity of this Mk48 torpedo is that it first pierces the hull of the boat and only then explodes inside.
              It breaks through a light body (without touching the internal architecture of the Central City Hospital), and then explodes without breaking through a solid body, but destroying the compartment behind it. Drop dead torpedo, with the effect of teleportation through 70 mm steel wassat
              1. Mhpv
                Mhpv 12 September 2013 17: 11
                +1
                Yes Misantrop! Again our genius Shpuntik started dancing with the frame numbers and cumulative jets laughing
                I missed the article and now I read it and I’m stunned like this genius, having completed practice in the same warhead-5 on the Albatross, immediately quit the Navy and let snot bubbles.
                The geniuses of cumulative torpedoes why are tanks worth DZ? And here the submarine has a double hull that burns through one cumulative jet and even in the water and at a depth where there is already some pressure and explodes exactly inside the boat. wassat
                Read more Pereyaslov Nicholas "The Shadow of Kursk", or no one will know the truth. "This is, although a novel, but there are many useful and interesting things and at the end of the material.
                1. shpuntik
                  shpuntik 12 September 2013 21: 54
                  0
                  MCHPV (2) SU Today, 17:11 ↑
                  I missed the article and now I read it and I’m stunned like this genius, having completed practice in the same warhead-5 on the Albatross, immediately quit the Navy and let snot bubbles.

                  Listen MUCH, you still can’t calm down? Unlike you, I am an officer, and the submarine has built more than one. Do you have, besides emergency service of cognition? Or will you laugh like a horse?
                  And here the submarine has a double hull that burns through one cumulative jet and even in the water and at a depth where there is already some pressure and explodes exactly inside the boat. wassat

                  We say pressure, are we clever? laughing Have you seen gas cutting and welding under water? fellow Especially for these "Morvoenspecials":
                  Everything else I said in previous comments. Kars set the photo of the punched lightweight body higher.
                  Therefore, you do not need to spray with saliva. Increase self-education, cows have enough tails to twist. hi
                  1. Mhpv
                    Mhpv 12 September 2013 22: 30
                    -2
                    Quote: shpuntik
                    Listen MUCH, you still can’t calm down?

                    In my opinion it’s all you can’t calm down laughing
                    Quote: shpuntik
                    Look at my comments on Kursk, where I brought the "Misanthrope" to the surface

                    Quote: shpuntik
                    had to risk the position of a moderator, threw him 10 warnings

                    You shamefully took advantage of the moderator’s position, failing to prove to the misanthrope reasonably that time.
                    laughing Two - this is a forum where everyone has the right to express their thoughts even if the person is not right and you consider yourself a specialist, then give convincing arguments and not like "the number of the frame in the studio" laughing
                    Quote: shpuntik
                    I'm an officer, unlike you

                    I saw such summers after school, came to the ship and differed from the guys who really served on the 2,5 ship of the year (and living on it) and who had practical experience, only shoulder straps.
                    On our shore, the carriers also wore a marine uniform. laughing
                    Quote: shpuntik
                    Have you seen gas cutting and welding under water?

                    The impact of gas cutting under water with metal occurs with prolonged contact and constant supply of the gas mixture, and then a torpedo with a limited volume and even as desava wrote to you that it has in its bow.
                    And here's another from the book by N. Cherkashin "Gone by the Abyss. The Death of the Kursk":
                    "So torpedo holes?

                    Torpedoes, unlike armor-piercing shells, do not penetrate the ship's armor, they unfold it with their explosion so that there are no traces left to determine its caliber, or rather its diameter. This is the first thing. Secondly, the American MK-48 torpedoes are self-guided, that is, their acoustic heads are aimed at the noisiest part of the ship - the stern, where the most powerful source of noise is located - the propellers. Therefore, if the Americans had fired their torpedoes, they would have hit the aft compartments of the Kursk, but not in the bow. "
                    So take it easy and just don’t throw your drool overboard, not an officer, if you are an officer, behave like that, you need to set an example for people, but alas, this is not for you, so you didn’t serve.
                    And yes, I’ll answer your annoying question, this supposedly hole in the 24 front of the starboard frame, and you, as a boat builder, would only soar your brains about the frames for a long time. laughing
                    Good night!
                    1. shpuntik
                      shpuntik 12 September 2013 22: 41
                      0
                      Major General
                      MCHPV (2) SU Today, 22:30 PM ↑ New
                      And yes, I’ll answer your annoying question, this supposedly hole in the area of ​​24 starboard frames,

                      Listen, you arrogant person. Now the appointment of the "technological manhole" for the Central City Hospital, please. And it was not me who was proving something to the misanthrope, but he did not answer me: what kind of "laz" he was. The fact that this is Pr. B. and district 22 shp. - I can see it from the photo. I don't comment on the rest, what kind of specialist you are, I already understood.
            3. desava
              desava 11 September 2013 10: 47
              0
              Quote: Dangerous
              The peculiarity of this Mk48 torpedo is that it first pierces the hull of the boat and only then explodes inside.

              And also, as always, a depleted uranium head, GPS guidance, noise immunity and stealth torpedo technology! ...
            4. old man54
              old man54 11 September 2013 23: 25
              0
              Quote: Dangerous
              Feature of this torpedo Mk48

              this is not Mk-48, do not repeat nonsense for the French director. not what does not understand in the fleet! Read in the public domain at least about Mk-48, its warhead and action algorithm, and take it easy! There were completely different torpedoes!
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 12 September 2013 10: 10
                0
                Quote: old man54
                There were completely different torpedoes!
                Well, tell me about this miracle of American weapons of thought, about its capabilities and characteristics. Or is minus easier and faster?
                1. old man54
                  old man54 12 September 2013 23: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Quote: old man54
                  There were completely different torpedoes!

                  Well, tell me about this miracle of American weapons of thought, about its capabilities and characteristics. Or is minus easier and faster?

                  Misanthrope, first of all, I didn't minus you! To that great naval commander, nickname "desava", with his TA lids open in Kursk, after lifting it from the bottom, I could not resist, minus, but for such a blizzard one cannot but put a minus. Everything has been told for a long time, in that branch on 12.08., I do not want to repeat myself.
                  1. desava
                    desava 12 September 2013 23: 56
                    +2
                    Quote: old man54
                    To that great naval commander, nickname "desava", with his open TA covers on Kursk

                    Something, just in case, having looked at my comments, I did not find a word about these most open TA covers.
                    But this is not the point. As for guidance (Shpuntiku wrote off in a personal and I consider it necessary to mention in the general comments) - yes, to blame. And I agree about the guidance of torpedoes, both in the magnetic field and in the wake of the wake and other apparently unknown methods, as well as the possibility of aiming torpedoes on the bow of the submarine. Nevertheless, I remain of my opinion about the nature of the origin of the hole in the photograph - technological for access to devices located in the inter-side space. Torpedoes do not have a cumulative effect - in this matter my position remains unchanged. And yes, there is an opinion in the Navy that the death is caused by a torpedo hit, only by its birthmark torpedo during training firing with a warhead.
                    Do you think the hole is a consequence of a torpedo hit?
                    Through clenched teeth, but with respect. hi
  15. nikcris
    nikcris 10 September 2013 19: 53
    +2
    Quote: Arabist
    And what, from the explosion of a torpedo a neat hole is formed?

    I don’t know about torpedoes - I already said above that LoX, but the Nimets and Soviet did neat holes in the tanks. More precisely, they did it in HF. And there is dofiga iron.
    Finish with tanks and return to the Black Sea. Here we are gouging the Turkish fleet - thank God we do not have aircraft carriers there.
    PS PS You believe that the Americans (there is no other word, it seems that the site of the Trotskyists)
    There is one well-fed back seat - feed ...
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 10 September 2013 19: 57
      +1
      Excuse me, do you not explain your last sentence to me? I did not understand anything about our aircraft carriers in the Black Sea.
  16. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 10 September 2013 20: 01
    0
    Quote: nikcris
    And our guarantor said that she drowned. Give a link?

    What do I have epaulets on the site changing at an unimaginable speed. In the USSR, stars were added to me once every two years. Although I did not deserve it.

    Found a good service. Only once every two years the junior officers were appropriated and apparently did not receive reprimands. It’s more difficult for operatives.
  17. coserg 2012
    coserg 2012 10 September 2013 20: 30
    +3
    (+) per article. I would like more good articles on this topic. At the expense of 4 minutes of nonsense, in the Kola Bay when one of the boats returned from the sea, one of the boatswains tinted the sideboard and fell off the gazebo. He picked up the one that followed. everything about everything took half an hour. Everything was alive and well. Kiev, returning from the sea, put on a barrel, found that the cable for which the Bridel was pulled was torn off. The commander (Pykov) gave the command to find a volunteer. He found himself, ducked under the barrel and hooked the cable for Bridel. It took at least 20 minutes. A bottle of alcohol and leave to the homeland, and an order not to touch. Shuffled around the ship and bawled songs. The first case was in early spring, the second in late autumn. Regarding the divers, I think that in the Navy, there should be no divers. Expensive and not effective. Because of this, the quality of underwater operations is lame.
  18. sashka
    sashka 10 September 2013 22: 24
    +1
    All together to die. There is no "caste" here .. Will the commanders "die" separately? Why am I saying so impudently, because I have already died .. And this is not a joke ... In 94 .. You will laugh ...
  19. Maks-80
    Maks-80 10 September 2013 23: 39
    0
    I apologize for being off topic.

    Russia conducted exercises off the coast of Syria in the event of a military attack on the country.



    The crews of ships and vessels of the operational connection of the Russian Navy conducted exercises in the Mediterranean Sea. They imitated the conduct of the battle in the event of a military attack on Syria.

    “The Navy grouping has successively worked out the entire algorithm of operations, communications, as well as the air defense and anti-submarine defense of ship groups and individual units with the possible outbreak of hostilities in the areas where they are located. Particular attention is paid to protection against underwater saboteurs, ”Interfax-AVN reports referring to the General Staff of the Navy.

    The representative of the department also assured that in the event of foreign interference in the internal Syrian conflict, Russian ships will be at a sufficient distance from dangerous areas. “We are not going to drown anyone. Nobody set such a task for us, ”he added.

    Earlier it was reported that in the waters of the Mediterranean Sea are the landing ship Admiral Panteleev, the patrol ship Ustrashimy, the large landing ships Alexander Shabalin, Admiral Nevelskaya, Peresvet, Novocherkassk and Minsk. According to the plan of the General Staff, the medium reconnaissance ship SSV-21 "Priazovye" performs a special task in the same region. Mostly military forces are concentrated in the western and eastern parts of the Mediterranean.

    Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Foreign Affairs Alexei Pushkov said that such exercises make it clear that Russia will not come to terms with the forceful solution to the Syrian conflict.

    “The Russian Navy, with its presence, shows that we are paying very serious attention to this situation, that we perceive it as a key problem in world politics, that Russia is observing these events and does not intend to put up with the military logic of resolving the issue,” he explained today at a press conference.

    The day before, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov voiced an initiative addressed to the Syrian government. He called on Bashar al-Assad to transfer the country's chemical weapons to the control of the international community. According to his plan, this will help to avoid an attack on the country. World powers welcomed the initiative of Russia.

    On the eve of Barack Obama gave an interview to the American media, in which he stated that he had not yet decided whether to use military force against Syria. But at the same time, according to him, if the international community receives a verifiable and implemented mechanism for controlling chemical weapons in Syria, the United States will support this.

    http://warfiles.ru/show-38373-rossiya-provela-ucheniya-u-beregov-sirii-na-slucha


    y-voennogo-napadeniya-na-stranu.html
    1. gunnerminer
      gunnerminer 10 September 2013 23: 58
      +2
      The crews of ships and vessels of the operational connection of the Russian Navy conducted exercises in the Mediterranean Sea. They imitated the conduct of the battle in the event of a military attack on Syria.


      A miserable campaign designed for a simpleton who has lost ground. A fresh Mediterranean wind blew off all the verbal husk and talk about combat readiness and showed reinforced concrete facts of the state of the Russian Navy, how many combat-ready submarines, Tu-22M3 missile carriers, A-50 Aircraft, and hospital ships, PRTB, floating workshops, universal supply transports, new destroyers, anti-submarine aircraft, reconnaissance aircraft. In what condition is the combat command of the Navy and ship grouping, how many bases and maneuver bases in the Mediterranean.
  20. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 10 September 2013 23: 51
    +3
    A special caste of the fleet cannot be provided by a modern rescue ship — Igor Belousov —. Rogues from the Central Design Bureau — Lazurit — and — Tetis Pro- (who have nothing but office furniture) have so turned things around with the creation of the GVK (deep-sea diving complex) that everything is moving towards initiation of criminal proceedings. Since the day of the death of Plark - Kursk - more than 12 years have passed!
  21. voliador
    voliador 11 September 2013 00: 50
    +1
    And who the hell they put. Although it is necessary to plant and confiscate!
  22. marader555
    marader555 20 February 2014 23: 38
    0
    EASY RISES TO YOU GUYS ...