Military Review

The Ministry of Finance is going to strike at the Ministry of Defense

66
Gradually, the Russian financial system approached the bar beyond which a bright image of austerity budget economy appears ... However, not one of the spheres and none of the departments, realizing that the austerity of the state budget cannot do without austerity because of extremely weak economic growth, case does not want to start this savings with yourself. Proposals come from representatives of various services and ministries and at the same time address the need to start tightening belts in other services and ministries.




The other day, the “red banner” Ministry of Finance came up with another call for the search for domestic Russian reserves in the format of quite substantial savings. The ministry’s talk of saving is not taken away from Alexei Kudrin’s time, and no one is going to take it away, realizing that if the Ministry of Finance called instead of saving the budget to invest in various projects, it would rather be nonsense, and not only domestic. That's why he and the "Red Banner" Ministry of Finance to periodically pull us down, saying: there is no money! ..

One of the areas of future savings defined by the Ministry of Finance and Anton Siluanov personally is the so-called partial transfer of funding for military reform from the deadlines set in the plans to deadlines. That is, the idea is this: there will be funding, but not today or tomorrow, and, perhaps, even the day after tomorrow. According to the leadership of the Ministry of Finance, this will allow to keep tangible funds in the budget for a period of low economic growth, but when growth becomes high enough, funding will continue in full.

An interesting nuance. In one of his interviews before the start of the G20 summit in the northern capital, exactly the same was stated by the former Minister of Finance, Mr. Kudrin. If you recall his rhetoric at that time, when he spent his last days in his ministerial chair, then Alexey Leonidovich said that spending up to 20 trillions on defense in the next 8-9 years is disastrous for the domestic economy. These words and some consultations with partners in the USA cost Kudrin the chair. Today it turns out that the Russian Ministry of Finance does not just listen to the opinion of the ex-minister, but also takes this opinion, which is called, in his turn.

So, according to the plans of the Ministry of Finance, in the rearmament of the Russian army, which is currently under way, certain pauses and revisions must be made. For example, instead of the planned 70% upgrade of military equipment to 2020, now it is planned to stop at 50% rearmament, which will save about 5,7 trillion rubles. The idea is connected with the fact that 50% of new equipment is supposedly normal for many foreign armies, and we, you know, have threatened all 70. Whom do we want to surprise with these 70 percent? .. They are going to transfer a certain share of expenses, as they say, “later” ...

Nobody argues, 5,7 billion rubles of savings in current conditions is more than a solid figure. But if there is a situation in which in a year or two it will turn out that 50% new technology in the military is too much ... And let's stop at 40%: let's save another trillion 2-2,5. So to say, where fifty, there and forty, and where forty, there and "the current percentage is enough." At the same time, everything will also be explained by the low growth of the economy - can't you say anything ...

He intends to save the ministry under the leadership of Anton Siluanov on the rearmament of the Russian army and in the very near future. For this, it turns out, it is enough to reduce the percentage of planned production growth in the field of defense industry from 15,8% per year to "optimal" 10%. If you make such an interesting manipulation, in fact declaring to the military industrialists that they need to work a little less intensively, then the savings for the budget will be more than a trillion rubles to 2016 of the year.

However, on this the Finance Ministry Anton Siluanov, as they say, did not calm down. On the basis of gushing ideas about major economy, representatives of the main financial department in the country went into a rage so that they sacrificed the sacred ... In this case, the Saints found the central office of the Ministry of Defense, which the Ministry of Finance proposed to cut down on 10% with the motivation performance of duties overlap.

Here is one of the quotations of the representative of the Ministry of Finance on this account:

... it (the structure of the central apparatus of the Ministry of Defense - author's note) testifies to serious problems in the administration of the military department.


The Ministry of Finance also calls on colleagues from the defense ministry to reconsider the controversial decisions signed by the former minister (Anatoly Serdyukov) on cash payments.

Most likely, in the latter case we are talking about giant awards, which Mr. Serdyukov wrote out to his closest entourage, and decisions on bonuses, judging by the claims of the Ministry of Finance, also apply to current officials of the Ministry of Defense.

Of course, saving on the bureaucratic horde is a good thing. It would have looked even more potent if only unmercenaries worked in the Ministry of Finance, who would work hard to replenish the state budget without excessive bureaucratic fecundity.

The response to the department of Siluanov from a representative of the Ministry of Defense was as follows:
First, let the other departments put things in order, and then just for us. In the same Ministry of Finance, how many duplicate structures? And the others that the states are not bloated?


The official offended the official. A rare case in domestic practice, but in a “low-fat” economy, this is likely to occur more and more often.

If we talk about the central element of the Ministry of Defense, it looks like this: in addition to the Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu here - Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov (First Deputy Minister), First Deputy Arkady Bakhin, Deputy Minister and State Secretary Nikolai Pankov, Deputy Minister and Chief of Staff Yury Sadovenko, Deputy Minister Anatoly Antonov, Deputy Minister Yury Borisov, Deputy Minister Dmitry Bulgakov, Deputy Minister Oleg Ostapenko , Deputy Minister Ruslan Tsalikov, Deputy Minister Tatyana Shevtsova.

Total: one minister and 10 deputy ministers.
Let us see what kind the central unit of the Ministry of Finance has, which states that it is necessary to optimize bureaucratic personnel in the defense ministry.

Anton Siluanov - Minister of Finance, First Deputy Minister Tatiana Nesterenko, Deputy Minister Leonid Gornin, Deputy Minister of State and Secretary of State Yuri Zubarev, Deputy Minister Andrey Ivanov, Deputy Minister Mikhail Kotyukov, Deputy Minister Alexei Lavrov, Deputy Minister Alexey Moiseev, Deputy Minister Sergey Storchak, Deputy Minister Sergey Shatalov.

One minister and 9 deputies.

So this is why the Ministry of Finance declares the “bloating” of the state of the Ministry of Defense - Siluanov is one less deputy minister than Shoigu. But here, too, is not all easy. Anton Siluanov unexpectedly (apparently, also in order to save budgetary funds) decided to take in his ministry and 10 th Deputy Minister, who should be the former head of the Federal Financial Markets Service Dmitry Pankin.
Well - now full equality in the number of officials in the central offices of the two ministries! It remains to wait for anyone with such a bureaucratic equality blow to the opponent will be more powerful.

The main thing is that in order to replicate the statements about the need to save on the military budget, the ministers do not need to recruit for themselves a dozen more deputies, measured by the size of the central offices ...
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  1. Marconi41
    Marconi41 6 September 2013 09: 19
    +9
    The Ministry of Finance declares war on the Ministry of Defense. The military has no chance in this war.
    Well then, your word is Comrade Commander-in-Chief!
    1. experienced
      experienced 6 September 2013 09: 29
      27
      You cannot generously give out bad loans, buy up American debt securities and hope that the remaining money will be enough for everything else. All our so-called "currency cushions" are located in the West and are invested in their securities ... I think they have the same fate as the German gold transferred for "storage" in the United States. hi
      1. MAG
        MAG 6 September 2013 10: 22
        21
        And do not forget about the window dressing - summits, Sochi and the World Cup. A sea of ​​money going nowhere is our Russian trait to splurge. You need to be more modest.
        1. the polar
          the polar 6 September 2013 10: 40
          11
          Quote: MAG
          And do not forget about the window dressing - summits, Sochi and the World Cup. A sea of ​​money going nowhere is our Russian trait to splurge. You need to be more modest.

          This is by no means a Russian trait, but a thieves' one - "walk, lads, while we are only dreaming about the zone."
        2. Army1
          Army1 6 September 2013 12: 53
          +6
          You need to steal less
          1. Vlad 1965
            Vlad 1965 6 September 2013 13: 20
            +9
            Army1 (2
            MINFIN, it is worth considering as an object potentially hostile to the country, since the economists sitting there, students of Gaidar and other liberal non-ignoramuses, are simply unable to do anything other than ruin the country's economy.
            Sequestration of defense spending - and this is against the backdrop of an increasing military threat7
            Where is the FSB looking?
            Sequestration of defense spending, yeah, how could I put Siluanov himself and his deputies on a payoff of 6340 rubles?
            And this is the monetary content of a civil servant of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
            Maybe it’s worth starting with the Ministry of Finance, putting this entire accounting company on state employees' salaries, with a bonus of 1010, in the amount of 10 thousand. on the snout in the quarter?
            And only after that, for the officials of the Ministry of Finance, the only convolution, and even then below the back, will make them THINK, and not depict the process of separating "thoughts"?
      2. seller trucks
        seller trucks 6 September 2013 10: 39
        +7
        Quote: seasoned
        You cannot generously give out bad loans,


        But can someone explain to me the question of oil? 2013 oil is budgeted for 92 bucks per barrel now 113, maybe the problem is sucked out of my finger, or maybe I don’t understand what?
        1. uhu189
          uhu189 6 September 2013 11: 24
          +5
          One gets the impression that we all have something to misunderstand ...
        2. sub307
          sub307 6 September 2013 15: 40
          +3
          "Above" promise to raise our "financial literacy" to the necessary heights, so that nothing "seems" to us and everyone "understands everything."
        3. yanus
          yanus 7 September 2013 15: 43
          +1
          Quote: seller trucks
          But can someone explain to me the question of oil? 2013 oil is budgeted for 92 bucks per barrel now 113, maybe the problem is sucked out of my finger, or maybe I don’t understand what?

          Firstly, oil makes up a decent part of the budget, but not so much so that everything depends only on it.
          Secondly, the price is of course an important thing, but it must be multiplied by the volume of oil sold.
      3. old man54
        old man54 6 September 2013 19: 40
        +3
        you "+" for discernment! hi
        Quote: seasoned
        All our so-called "currency cushions" are located in the West and are invested in their securities ... I think they have the same fate as the German gold that was "deposited" in the United States.

        Exactly, but even worse. Most likely this is a pre-agreed non-refund given for some personal or group preferences to the powers that be for the world's evil in the person of the United States. Or that their investments there would not be pulled, or something else, this is the 125th case!
    2. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 6 September 2013 10: 42
      +7
      Quote: Marconi41
      The Ministry of Finance declares war on the Ministry of Defense. The military has no chance in this war. Well then, your word is Comrade Commander-in-Chief!

      ... everything is correct ... when the government is headed, with a liberal, favorite and especially trusted friend of BUSH, Mr. MEDVEDEV, then this will be the attitude towards the power of the state. Apparently, the West is very concerned about the independent behavior of Putin's RUSSIA ... and therefore the task was set - to weaken us. So the "best finance ministers according to the assessment of the WEST" ran ahead of the locomotive to smash our defenses ...
      It remains to hope for the PRESIDENT. He made it clear in an interview that there would be no general cutback by 5%, as DAM suggests. Separate articles will be cut ... IT IS REMAINED TO HOPE THAT THIS WILL NOT BE ARTICLES FOR IMPROVING THE DEFENSE OF THE COUNTRY.
      And it would be even better to "CUT TO" THE CURRENT LIBERAL GOVERNMENT ... Replace it with professionals.
      1. fartfraer
        fartfraer 6 September 2013 13: 23
        0
        Putin can do it easily. Why not?
    3. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 6 September 2013 14: 14
      +1
      they are trying with all their might to prevent the President from raising the combat effectiveness of the army. One reason, then another ... And now they just said - we won’t give money)))
      it’s not a conflict of departments, but that the central bank is controlled by the Americans, who SPECIALLY wrote a constitution under the central bank ...
      who steers money and rules politics in the country. The Central Bank is not required to comply with the requirements of the President of Russia and the government. It is an INDEPENDENT structure (Article No. 75 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation), and the Central Bank appeals to the European Court for clarification. This is all spelled out in our 1992 constitution)))
      it is not possible to change the constitution, because Article No. 5 obliges to accept the cadon on the rule of changing the constitution, but this law has not yet been adopted and the deputies are as opposed to accept it ...

      Putin, for his part, has muddied with the Chinese leader his sovereign fund worth $ 100 billion so as not to ask the Central Bank for permission for his own money. Well done! and the constitution did not have to be changed ...
      1. dmb
        dmb 6 September 2013 15: 10
        +6
        Yes, well, is it so difficult to amend the Constitution? Something I did not hear about the particular strains when the terms of the deputy and the presidency changed. The flight has passed. But show me, who said that he would not give Vova money? Is Nabiullina appointed to them there? Here it is human gratitude to you. But actually this is not the main thing. Perhaps the main thing is that the current law on the Central Bank was not signed at all by the drunkard Borka, but by the current living and current Guarantor. And changes to it are regularly made. So who prevents the Guarantor from changing the Law?
    4. Ruslan_F38
      Ruslan_F38 6 September 2013 16: 16
      0
      "One of the areas of future savings, identified by the Ministry of Finance and Anton Siluanov personally, is the so-called partial transfer of funding for military reform from the dates indicated in the plans to the dates shifted in time. That is, the idea is this: there will be funding, but not today or tomorrow. and perhaps even the day after tomorrow. " - you can only save not on the country's defense capability, especially now - it's criminal. Although what to talk about - Siluanov is a man of Kudrin, and who is Kudrin - a Western agent, a traitor. What else can you expect from this government. I hope Shoigu will bring the Ministry of Finance to life.
      1. yanus
        yanus 7 September 2013 15: 46
        +3
        Quote: Ruslan_F38
        I hope Shoigu will bring the Ministry of Finance to life.

        Are you joking so subtly? Shoigu is an errand boy who was given medals and epaulets to hang himself. He is a purely temporary figure. It’s just that there’s not a single sane person for the post of Minister of Defense.
        1. Ruslan_F38
          Ruslan_F38 7 September 2013 17: 34
          +2
          Quote: yanus
          Quote: Ruslan_F38
          I hope Shoigu will bring the Ministry of Finance to life.

          Are you joking so subtly? Shoigu is an errand boy who was given medals and epaulets to hang himself. He is a purely temporary figure. It’s just that there’s not a single sane person for the post of Minister of Defense.


          Maybe you're right, got this whole performance.
  2. Boris55
    Boris55 6 September 2013 09: 20
    +3
    Interestingly, and in the Ministry of Finance, too, for a day on "combat" duty for the safety of candy wrappers intercede?
  3. PROXOR
    PROXOR 6 September 2013 09: 21
    +5
    Liberal bastards !!!! WHAT SAVINGS ON DEFENSE OF THE COUNTRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let them start with themselves. ZP cut themselves. ki!
    There are no words.
    1. Andrey312
      Andrey312 6 September 2013 09: 46
      +4
      Quote: PROXOR
      Liberal bastards !!!! WHAT SAVINGS ON DEFENSE OF THE COUNTRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let them start with themselves. ZP cut themselves. ki!
      There are no words.

      How are liberalism in the economy and cost reduction for something? Liberalism = cost reduction ????
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 6 September 2013 09: 50
        +2
        Quote: Andrey312
        How are liberalism in the economy and cost reduction for something? Liberalism = cost reduction ????

        Well, what "smart guys" could have such a thought? Everyone who is involved in the financial sector does not understand the importance of business when it is necessary to save in their opinion. Correctly says morpogr, all in the Cabinet on the minimum wage !!! As well as both chambers of parliament.
        1. Andrey312
          Andrey312 6 September 2013 10: 43
          +3
          Quote: PROXOR
          Well, what "smart guys" could have such a thought?

          As far as I know, liberalism in the economy is the least possible government intervention in economic processes, and providing the market with an opportunity to self-regulate. What is our liberalism? What is self-regulation? Everything is controlled only in manual mode. If you only used the word liberal as an abusive .... duck in the Russian language is full of more capacious, and more accurate words .... wink
          Quote: PROXOR
          Correctly says morpogr, everyone in the cabinet at the minimum wage !!! As well as both houses of parliament.

          I think that sn is not their main income .....
      2. Fin
        Fin 6 September 2013 11: 47
        +2
        Quote: Andrey312
        How are liberalism in the economy and cost reduction for something? Liberalism = cost reduction ????

        Prokhor had in mind their venality and the fulfillment of the order of the Anglo-Saxons to weaken their defenses.
      3. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 6 September 2013 13: 22
        +1
        Quote: Andrey312
        Quote: PROXOR
        Liberal bastards !!!! WHAT SAVINGS ON DEFENSE OF THE COUNTRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let them start with themselves. ZP cut themselves. ki!
        There are no words.

        How are liberalism in the economy and cost reduction for something? Liberalism = cost reduction ????


        And what, you are against the comparison that monetary liberalism in Russia is the strangulation of the country's economy in the interests of the WEST, you still do not understand this ??
  4. SmacXnumx
    SmacXnumx 6 September 2013 09: 23
    +2
    In a stranger's eye I will make out a speck in my logs I will not see.
  5. svp67
    svp67 6 September 2013 09: 27
    +3
    Come on, so far without too much screaming. The fact that they plan to reduce defense spending is certainly bad. But everyone, including many social programs, is undergoing financial reduction ... It is simply necessary to approach this issue very reasonably. It is realistic to assess whether all programs and all the funds allocated for defense are able to master this year. It’s possible to transfer obviously failed programs to next year, and there will be a reduction ... It’s necessary to somehow get out of the situation in which our country is now ... Only everything should be REASONABLE, without excessive fanaticism.
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 6 September 2013 09: 32
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      Come on, so far without too much screaming. The fact that they plan to reduce defense spending is certainly bad. But everyone, including many social programs, is undergoing financial reduction ... It is simply necessary to approach this issue very reasonably. It is realistic to assess whether all programs and all the funds allocated for defense are able to master this year. It’s possible to transfer obviously failed programs to next year, and there will be a reduction ... It’s necessary to somehow get out of the situation in which our country is now ... Only everything should be REASONABLE, without excessive fanaticism

      What cries? !!!! According to the program, until 2020, there should be a modernization of up to 70%. We now must not stop at all. New equipment must continuously enter the troops. On those positions in the army where conscripts are little needed contractor. The contractor needs lodging and housing. So when he went into battle, his head did not hurt how his family lives there !!!! That program until 2020 is generally the minimum that is needed. And much more is needed. I’m silent about financing prospective developments. Let the Finance Ministry get his grandmothers from Taburetkin with sh-l-y-x-a-m-and knocks him out. There are billions. Yes, damn it, at least let them in. Look at Iskander from Taburetkin’s organs.
      1. svp67
        svp67 6 September 2013 09: 37
        0
        Quote: PROXOR
        That program until 2020 is generally the minimum that is needed. AND
        Answer - we are now - can we really master all the money, and not "saw"? I assure you - no, as long as the industry does not allow it. So there are opportunities for a REASONABLE reduction in cash expenditures ... But here it is very necessary to be careful, without "predetermined" numbers. The numbers must be REAL.
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 6 September 2013 09: 46
          +5
          Quote: svp67
          Answer - we are now - can we really master all the money, and not "saw"? I assure you - no, as long as the industry does not allow it. So there are opportunities for a REASONABLE reduction in cash expenditures ... But here it is very necessary to be careful, without "predetermined" numbers. The numbers must be REAL.

          Talk dear nonsense. At our enterprise, the defense industry enterprises have modernized equipment at best by 50%, as far as the funds have been allocated. Companies buy part of the equipment for their money. I speak with knowledge of the matter, for it is engaged precisely in the lower modernization of defense industry enterprises. At most enterprises, one turning and milling complex with CNC accounts for 5 turning and 3 milling machines. WHICH DEVELOPMENT OF THE BUDGET IS NECESSARY IT DOESN'T GIVE WHILE !!!! Seeing how certain products are made that we are so proud of seeing them at the parade, I wonder how they make it so high quality.
          1. Babon
            Babon 6 September 2013 10: 05
            +3
            You just study the economic situation, not everything is great with us. Everything is very seriously worsened.
            1. Oskar
              Oskar 6 September 2013 10: 52
              +5
              Simply, the economy (unlike the electorate) did not believe the election promises. Hypnosis did not work :). This is the point!
        2. Drummer
          Drummer 6 September 2013 11: 55
          +4
          I absolutely agree, until all the steam goes to the whistle, and the money - no one knows where.
    2. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 6 September 2013 09: 36
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      Come on, so far without unnecessary cries

      Business speak dear svp67. Can we do import substitution, clean up the bureaucratic apparatus, eliminate theft without unnecessary screams? It is clear that you have to work, but maybe it will be more literate? And to "move" (read to cut) the state defense order is easier, and you don't need to do anything, and even from Washington, gratitude will come ... when will the new Joseph Vissarionovich come ????
    3. experienced
      experienced 6 September 2013 09: 45
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      Come on, so far without too much screaming. The fact that they plan to reduce defense spending is certainly bad. But all, including many social programs, are subject to financial reduction.

      I completely agree. It's good that it's late, but they missed it and began to realize that it is not enough to have a lot of money to re-equip the Army and Navy, first of all it is necessary to modernize the military-industrial complex otherwise, the allocated money will go like water in sand with a weak effect of return. Now, basically, there is "the development of budgetary funds", and not the state program for rearmament according to the old Russian proverb "we carry water in a sieve", crumbs reach the enterprises, intermediaries and effective managers grow fat. hi
    4. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 6 September 2013 21: 52
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      It is realistic to assess whether all programs and all the funds allocated for defense are able to master this year.

      leave the footcloths already a hefty saving
      And so little by little in everything. And you need to save yourself with your loved ones.
  6. Boris55
    Boris55 6 September 2013 09: 33
    0
    As I understand it, money from defense goes VTB. Here, it seems to me, we are talking about salaries from CB.

  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. sashka
    sashka 6 September 2013 09: 35
    +6
    And this is not the end of the year. The circus will begin later .. I have always said that a FSB officer cannot be a great economist, politician, strategist and, in general, the beacon of a nation that cannot be "replaced" by anyone .. Such nonsense is said and done, I can do that too. You don't need a lot of intelligence.
    1. DEMENTIY
      DEMENTIY 6 September 2013 10: 05
      -3
      Sasha:
      "I can do that too".

      Change the GDP to the lamp of Engels!

      Who is "FOR" the plus.

      Sasha, and now we will conduct a survey!
  9. Andrey312
    Andrey312 6 September 2013 09: 39
    +9
    The Ministry of Finance has a difficult choice. Putin has promised too much before the elections, a flood in the Far East, the Olympics - you need a lot of money, but the economy is not growing. And here, unfortunately, reducing defense spending is seen as an option. From a social point of view, this looks less painful than the abolition of maternity capital. But on the other hand, the defense order is industrial production, jobs, and as a result of GDP and taxes. Or maybe it’s better to spend more efficiently and stop cutting and looting? I think that then there will be enough money for all the programs, and there will still be ... But this requires the desire and political will of the country's leadership - and there is neither one nor the other. And while the power structure does not change, nothing will change with any budget revenues.
    1. alone
      alone 6 September 2013 10: 44
      +3
      Do not forget about the World Cup on football, which also requires huge expenses
    2. Oskar
      Oskar 6 September 2013 11: 05
      +3
      To start, people in the structure must be changed! And then the structure. And the type of economy would not hurt. Let them build a state that ensures interests only thieves and still want something positive from him - this is at least stupid!
  10. Laserson
    Laserson 6 September 2013 09: 39
    +7
    To begin with, the Ministry of Finance would consider a net capital outflow from a country that is already breaking all unthinkable records and would take appropriate measures. And any nerd can offer to cut costs as a solution.
  11. Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 6 September 2013 09: 43
    +6
    Why the author calls the Ministry of Finance "red banner", it is rather "stars-striped".
  12. morpogr
    morpogr 6 September 2013 09: 46
    +3
    All ministries and departments should be put on a wage (minimum wage) for a year and without bonuses there would be savings and officials would be closer to the people for whom they work.
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 6 September 2013 10: 01
      +2
      I would suggest completely abolishing bonuses and bonuses for them (employees of ministries' apparatus). Provide the necessary: ​​housing, rations, transport. Give no money at all. Children go to special schools or universities, and maybe vocational schools, but only those that are located on the territory of the Russian Federation. They will not die of hunger and such work will attract people not for "a wonderful life", but for other reasons.
  13. IRBIS
    IRBIS 6 September 2013 10: 19
    +4
    Send Ministry of Finance officials to Syria right now. In the event that it is not possible to stop the American strike, they will very quickly understand what the rearmament of the army is for. There will be an understanding of the need for modern types of weapons and a well-equipped army.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 6 September 2013 13: 54
      +1
      Quote: IRBIS
      There will be an understanding of the need for modern weapons and a well-equipped army.

      "Who does not want to feed his army - will feed someone else's" This is already an axiom.
  14. Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 6 September 2013 10: 20
    +4
    Kerimov alone has up to $ 9 billion, and there are about a hundred such Karimovs in Russia's impoverished people. You can imagine how much money lies in an untouched pile, while soon the state will have nothing to pay pensions and child benefits from. I'm not talking about how many foreign owners of our factories, mines and deposits are pumping out of the country. How is it possible to do something with such an economy?
  15. Farvil
    Farvil 6 September 2013 10: 28
    +5
    the pan is heating up, the oil is boiling, and they jumped up and, as always, the poor people will sideways, they will take off our last pants just to make them feel good. this kitchen.
  16. Ev58
    Ev58 6 September 2013 10: 47
    +4
    When the Ministry of Finance declares that there is no money, then a natural question arises: "Where are they?" or "Where did they disappear to?" When referring to the poor growth of the country's economic indicators, the question also arises: "What exactly has been done to make this economic growth tangible?" For the development of the country's economy, it is not enough to deal only with the export of samples of B, W and the country's resources. It is necessary to have a developed, modern research, technological and production base. Old technologies limit the possibilities for promising developments; obsolete production resources limit the possibilities for the implementation of new technologies; obsolete testing equipment does not allow to confirm the quality of products that meet modern requirements and technical documentation; and outdated thinking, apparently, does not allow Mr. MinFin (God gave his last name!) to see all this and influence the situation as a whole. Instead of mutual claims and indications of dirty linen in the "someone else's eye", it would be better to come up with an initiative and a concrete plan to improve the economic situation.
    1. Oskar
      Oskar 6 September 2013 11: 13
      +4
      I would also like to ask: was there money when Putin generously gave out unsubstantiated promises? The elections have passed and we are again nailed ... are they? I read them ("ederastov", Putin, his korefan LADIES) previous election programs - in general, he ... it became ...
  17. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 6 September 2013 11: 10
    +1
    The country’s scheme is in our power and bureaucracy, first sawn and then distributed.
  18. Koronik
    Koronik 6 September 2013 11: 11
    +3
    Well, they began to look for reasons for not fulfilling the promise. But why even the Ministry of Finance can’t count with us. Money was paid to increase the salaries of officials by two. And most importantly, at all levels, to give them a wage average for the region, that’s trillion savings.
  19. alone
    alone 6 September 2013 11: 20
    0
    If we recall his rhetoric during the period when he spent the last days in his ministerial chair, then Alexei Leonidovich declared that spending up to 20 trillion on the defense industry in the next 8-9 years is detrimental to the domestic economy. These words and some consultations with partners in the United States then cost Kudrin an armchair. Today, it turns out that the Russian Ministry of Finance is not just listening to the opinion of the ex-minister, but also taking this opinion, as they say, in his turn.


    very interesting thing turns out. for example, no one knows from 20 trillion how much has been spent, and how much is left. And most importantly, it is not known what was spent already. And now it turns out that all this is detrimental to the economy. And maybe those 5,7 trillion who want to save , just the same amount that disappeared is unknown where? what
  20. Russ69
    Russ69 6 September 2013 11: 24
    -1
    In general, the article exaggerates somewhat. The conversation is about the transfer of part of the funding for the reason that the industry does not have time to produce the required planned amount of weapons. This is especially true of the fleet, this has been said more than once. Plus, the schedule lag in the development of new systems, both air defense systems with S50O, and with "Armata" and "Kurganets". For this reason, part of the costs have already been postponed to 2016. The fact that the program is now being adjusted since 2015 was said long ago, next year it should be presented to the president.
    Accordingly, we will have to observe these badges for a couple of years, both from the MO and the Ministry of Finance, and from all kinds of experts.
    I would not go to extremes yet; "The mustache is gone, chief." You need to wait for the updated program, and then draw conclusions. Realists, unfortunately, do not always coincide with desires.
  21. Ascetic
    Ascetic 6 September 2013 11: 25
    +6
    Everything is very simple ... From the side of the American financial infantry in the person of the same Siluanov, there is pressure on Putin's VTB, that is, it is proposed to reduce funding for those programs that go through VEB (there are pensions and social programs) and its VTB subsidiaries (military-industrial complex and law enforcement agencies) with to give functions of the financial mega-regulator of the CBR, which is known to be essentially a branch of the US Federal Reserve. And so almost all over the world, the ultimate beneficiary is the US Federal Reserve, which is a private office. True, there are several countries in the world that manage their own financial system. But by a strange coincidence, these countries have been declared the "Axis of Evil".
  22. poccinin
    poccinin 6 September 2013 11: 59
    +3
    did not even bother to read the article to the end. DEFENSE OF THE STATE is the last thing to be cut. urezat. Soon there will be a war with the United States and we need an army with modern weapons. Yes, our warehouses are crammed with 3 more rulers and machine guns "maxim" (no joke) and there will be enough Kalashnikovs for everyone, even babies. but in the yard of the 21st century. need a new weapon.
    1. Drummer
      Drummer 6 September 2013 15: 44
      +3
      A social explosion is far more real than a war with the United States, for which the Russian Federation still cannot keep up. Get used to living within our means, it helps.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 6 September 2013 22: 00
      +1
      Quote: poccinin
      soon there will be a war with the USA

      Yes, it seems like we’ve been doing this hard for the last 70 years. It’s just zero. First we do, then we cut and cut. Will we repeat the mistakes?
  23. uhu189
    uhu189 6 September 2013 12: 10
    +3
    But I don’t see anything new in the position of the Ministry of Finance - if it was not possible to directly crush the revival of the military-industrial complex, it will be indirectly, not by washing, so by skating ... It is easy to yell about the fact that the economy is weak, inefficient and there is nothing to be done for its effectiveness . Better yet, take it and declare that the official is cut because of the defense, and the defense because of the social sphere, cut both of these and the other fuck and invest the freed money in US debt, arguing that this is the fight against inflation. A fucking position - you won’t get to the bottom of it ... You can’t pour money in - because there will be inflation and the economy will not use it, it’s not developed, and you can’t develop the economy, because there is no money for it ... But in the end, the Great Country eke out a miserable existence and every year it’s getting worse. I never loved violence, I always spoke out against it, but I need to put such economists on the WALL ...
  24. white_f
    white_f 6 September 2013 12: 36
    +1
    Quote: KazaK Bo
    Separate articles will be cut ... IT IS REMAINED TO HOPE THAT THIS WILL NOT BE ARTICLES FOR IMPROVING THE DEFENSE OF THE COUNTRY.
    And it would be even better to "CUT TO" THE CURRENT LIBERAL GOVERNMENT ... Replace it with professionals

    It is frustrating that these will be social articles ...
    With a cutback in government, I fully support it.
  25. Phoeniks
    Phoeniks 6 September 2013 12: 37
    +1
    It is necessary to steal less and nothing will need to be reduced. Atom Serduchka with his subjects stolen is now not enough for ships, etc. He must be imprisoned for treason and betrayal of his homeland for life together with his minions and relatives with a complete 100% confiscation of all property. And it’s better to shoot. I goof on our government, he signed papers for all this and like he didn’t know what the Minister of Defense was signing, signing documents without looking, who believes that? Only our government and the bear, since the korish, probably together, stuck stools together.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. gerafak
    gerafak 6 September 2013 13: 19
    -3
    Sooner would the election be something, money is always in front of them for some reason. But Kudrin is right, you need to live within your means, they have promised so much that only the promised communism has long been left to wait.
  28. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 6 September 2013 13: 29
    +2
    Quote: gerafak
    Sooner would the election be something, money is always in front of them for some reason. But Kudrin is right, you need to live within your means, they have promised so much that only the promised communism has long been left to wait.

    KUDRIN is right ??? Is this the same Kudrin who sterilized more accurately withdrew billions of dollars from the country under empty Amer’s papers instead of giving, for example, long loans with a minimum rate in industry, infrastructure are the same roads7
    You yourself understood what you said, saying that the pro-American, through and through liberal monetary dogma, inflicts irreparable damage on Russia with its efforts, actions?
    This is how one should possess 2dar2 that the money supply in the country, motivating by the concern to prevent inflation instead of CASE, be allowed to empty the paper of the unsecured, why, Kudrin is right ???
  29. aud13
    aud13 6 September 2013 14: 57
    +2
    Quote: Phoeniks
    You need to steal less and nothing will need to be reduced

    Theft unfortunately is only part of the problem. Although theft is a huge loss. Even our previous president, Medvedev, once admitted that the annual losses from corruption amount to about 900 billion. rubles. (I do not know the right where such a figure came from and how reliable it is)
    For comparison, Russia's budget revenues for 2012 amounted to 12.840 billion rubles.
    Another component is the quality of government. The mere fact that in the absence of world crises and any other reasons, at the beginning of the year we begin to cut the budget for all reasons is a sign of this. The military budget is not the only "victim" here. Social programs are also being cut.
    If at the level of private enterprises we have very clear budget plans, measures are taken to reduce costs and increase efficiency, then at the state level everything is exactly the opposite. The number of officials is growing, along with the costs of their maintenance. The number of investment projects initiated at the federal level is growing (RUSNANO, APEC in Vladik, Olympic Games in Sochi, Football Championship, etc., etc.). Moreover, many projects seem to be leading us forward, but in reality they only turn into scandals, increased costs and problems - what to do with the constructed facilities after the next "holiday".
    Looking at the federation, they "master" their part of finance at the level of the subjects of the federation and municipalities. Everyone has their own projects. The appetites of officials are growing, and to saturate them, new receipts are needed that are absent and, most likely, will decrease due to the quality of management and planning. The logic of officials that let's increase taxes to increase the budget leads to the opposite result. We raised the UST from 14% of wages for small businesses to 34% - automatically the business began to decline, many simply go into the shadows.
    They increased the fixed tax for individual entrepreneurs by 2 times and as a result, a massive reduction in individual entrepreneurs. According to official figures, only in December2012-March2013 closed - 456 thousand individuals. This is an entire army. Previously, they brought income to both themselves and the country. It is very possible that many simply went into the shadows and do not pay taxes. Someone enters the labor exchange and now we must support it.
    Looking at all this, I want to ask:
    - Does someone in our country really manage?
    “If he is engaged, then who is he and what kind of authority does he take?”
  30. chevinkton
    chevinkton 6 September 2013 17: 07
    +1
    Hands off the defense, she doesn’t get off Serdyukov, but then they decided to finish her off. Let them save on the other; in comparison with the USA, we generally allocate a penny for modernization. How do you feel like not flattering to speak out at the Ministry of Finance ...
  31. helg717
    helg717 6 September 2013 17: 32
    +1
    I do not think that the total budget of the Ministry of Finance and the central office is the same. Maybe in MO more, or maybe not. BUT!!!!! in the Ministry of Finance, ALL polls receive bonuses, not just 1 + 9 (or 10 already). At the same time, no one is risking anything, and even in peacetime, the officers of the central apparatus add their heads (in Chechnya, how many generals and colonels, whom no one in the army loves, died?). And not a single FINANCER! Not that cut !!!!!!!!!
  32. m.asfa
    m.asfa 6 September 2013 20: 33
    +2
    That there would be money for the modernization of the military-industrial complex, there are fewer "thieves" projects: APEC, the Olympics in the subtropics, the Universiade, the World Cup. And the project includes the winter Universiade in Novosibirsk, EXPO in Krasnoyarsk. They steal wherever possible. Therefore, the cost of bad roads in our country is higher than that of good ones in Finland; a kilometer of a gas pipeline in the south of the country is three times more expensive than in the Czech Republic. And if the cost of oil collapses, then the khan and not only the defense industry. By the way, the Ministry of Defense does not stay away from corruption.
  33. tank64rus
    tank64rus 6 September 2013 21: 02
    +2
    Remove bonuses to financiers and economists because there is no money. And the thief should be in prison.
  34. xperia
    xperia 6 September 2013 21: 02
    +1
    It looks like the infection from the Ministry of Defense was transmitted to the Ministry of Finance and it seems to be transmitted by airborne droplets
  35. orek
    orek 6 September 2013 21: 27
    +1
    Quote: m.asfa
    And if the price of oil collapses, then the khan and not only the defense industry.

    Point No. 1: And from what hangover should it collapse ????
    US government debt structure, as of June 13 2013:
    The total public debt amounted to - 16 738 708 293 971 dollars
    Debt to private legal entities and individuals - 11 917 billion dollars (72% of the total)
    Debt to foreign countries - $ 4 billion (862% of the total)
    The upper level of US government debt since 1940 has risen about a hundred times.
    And oil is traded (or rather virtual contracts) for dollars, so see paragraph 1.
  36. orek
    orek 6 September 2013 21: 39
    +1
    Quote: Drummer
    A social explosion is far more real than a war with the United States, for which the Russian Federation still cannot keep up. Get used to living within our means, it helps.

    For any explosion, you need a detonator, i.e. artificially created factor. Do not let you paste it.
    Why run (catch up)? Maybe, as in the old joke: Slowly go down and p ......... be the whole herd ?? !!
  37. vladimir VR
    vladimir VR 7 September 2013 14: 26
    -1
    If GDP remains consistent in its decisions and statements, it will not save on our country's defense capabilities.
  38. Isk1984
    Isk1984 8 September 2013 10: 55
    0
    Here’s the policy for you, how much people rejoiced here, the money went before 2020, we’ll rejoin cheers and cheers, only realists understood that no one would strengthen anything with our corrupt government, it would seem that the result of 12 years of rule is basically one person, we are sending ships to Syria made at the shipyards of Soviet factories, at least one modern destroyer would have entered the eastern Mediterranean, but there aren’t any of them, and so on in all respects, that in the Air Force, that for other types of troops, those units that enter the army are a minuscule for the army, and Now, apparently, this minuscule will stop ...
    It would be better to reduce the financing of the state apparatus, trillions are being stolen there ... We don’t have power, which cares about state interests, there are small-town feudal lords who need the collected rent in time
  39. tank64rus
    tank64rus 8 September 2013 18: 25
    0
    Call up the liable Ministry of Finance in the ranks of the glorious Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and then after KMB reduce. The problem is resolved.
  40. awg75
    awg75 9 September 2013 15: 50
    0
    a country that does not feed its army will feed a stranger