Military Review

“Terminator - 2” - world premiere of RAE 2013

138
“Terminator - 2” - world premiere of RAE 2013

25 September 2013, the first day of the IX International exhibition of armament, military equipment and ammunition Russia Arms EXPO 2013 (RAE 2013), will be held world premiere. Scientific and Production Corporation Uralvagonzavod will present its latest development - the BMPT-72 combat support vehicle.


BMPT-72 - a revolutionary modernization of the world famous tank Uralvagonzavod - T-72. When designing the BMPT-72, the experience of creating and using the BMPT was taken into account, which received the nickname "Terminator" for its firepower.

Like the base model, Terminator-2 is capable of effectively solving the tasks of fire support of tanks and infantry in all types of combat operations, in complex geographic areas, at any time of the day, against any enemy. But it has some differences from the previous model: the fire control system and the security of the combat module of the tower were improved.

The main advantage of the BMPT-72 is that, created on the “seventy-doubles” platform, it gives a unique opportunity to all countries of the world, armed with the most massive modern T-72 tank, quickly and with minimal costs to turn their army into a super modern. Without acquiring new expensive cars, make it powerful, mobile, highly protected and well armed.

It is planned that the world premiere of "Terminator-2" will be held in the form of a light multimedia show in the presentation center 900 square meters specially built for the exhibition. Representatives of foreign countries and official foreign delegations will take part in it.
Author:
138 comments
Ad

The editorial board of Voenniy Obozreniye urgently needs a proofreader. Requirements: impeccable knowledge of the Russian language, diligence, discipline. Contact: [email protected]

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 5 September 2013 10: 36 New
    +6
    Good news! This is the expected terminator update.
    1. experienced
      experienced 5 September 2013 10: 41 New
      14
      the world premiere of Terminator 2 will be held in the form of a light multimedia show

      Clinic. He would have looked more organic at the training ground, but don't understand what happens, Schwartz would have been attracted to this "show". And why is it cool first, Schwartz flies into the fire with his unforgettable "I'll be back" in "Teminator", and then drives in "Terminator-2". Customers are delighted to line up shouting "Don't give more than two in one hand, otherwise we won't have enough." wassat
      1. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 5 September 2013 15: 33 New
        0
        Quote: seasoned
        the world premiere of Terminator 2 will be held in the form of a light multimedia show

        Clinic. He would have looked more organic at the training ground, but don't understand what happens, Schwartz would have been attracted to this "show". And why is it cool first, Schwartz flies into the fire with his unforgettable "I'll be back" in "Teminator", and then drives in "Terminator-2". Customers are delighted to line up shouting "Don't give more than two in one hand, otherwise we won't have enough." wassat


        Schwartz will have to give one gift for nothing - he will crack from such gifts. UVZ mine must reconsider the whole concept of BMPT. He has a lot and few at the same time. I do not understand how this could be done. For example, a chassis from a tank and small guns. There are two guns, one on weekdays to shoot the second for the weekend. The ammunition is ridiculous. The firing angles are also not very. The arena is directly asking there ... etc. According to the author’s idea, they gathered on this machine to fight with all types of equipment including helicopters and attack aircraft.

        Tank support machine - down with guided missiles, let the tanks fight tanks. This is the support machine - replace the second gun with a large machine gun with a large-caliber machine gun, one thousand and ten rounds so that you can shoot without looking back. Or, in front of it, put a more powerful automatic gun. Armor-piercing cannon shells are generally excluded or bookmarked according to the principle of the first in line of three shots. AGS per module. The module is pushed higher, stronger, the profile of the module is thinner. Crew - 3 people, commander, driver, gunner with a full double shooter and commander. ... just take it ...
        1. DEfindER
          DEfindER 5 September 2013 16: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: Geisenberg
          Tank support machine - down with guided missiles, let the tanks fight tanks.

          Well, it's you in vain, on the contrary, I would increase the number of ATGMs to 16, otherwise 4 is completely sour, a few shots and the car turns into a machine gun on caterpillars ..
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 5 September 2013 17: 15 New
            +2
            Quote: DEfindER
            on the contrary, I would increase the number of ATGMs to 16

            Vyacheslav, do you know how much one launch costs?

            Quote: DEfindER
            and then 4 is completely sour, a few shots and the car turns into a machine gun on the tracks ..

            In the Czech Republic, I would not refuse such a "machine gun on tracks" in my company.
            The birds would have been clearly removed, the grenade launchers would be thrust under the armor, depending on the task.
            And so - a mechanic, commander and gunner of "thirty" with PKT. All this is protected by tank armor.

            I do not criticize you and I am not an ardent supporter of BMPT, but equipment of this class in the troops is very necessary.
            If only experimental parties, chtol, would deliver. And then all these generals of the General Staff argued, damn it ...

            Daddy-chemist well done, "struck" his BMO-T, already in the army, albeit a little. Here's to him for this - Full Respect.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 5 September 2013 17: 27 New
              +2
              Lesh, hi, I’ve stumbled upon it, don’t know what it is? A figment of fantasy or real development.
              1. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 5 September 2013 17: 35 New
                +1
                Quote: Alex 241
                I came across, do not know what it is?

                Hi Sasha.

                Yes, the babai knows what it is.
                Fantasy.
                Appearance - a popular image of the T-95 or Almaty.
                The barrel is a short-barreled weapon, an image of an urban assault tank.
              2. Armata
                Armata 5 September 2013 19: 00 New
                +3
                Quote: Alex 241
                Lesh, hi, I’ve stumbled upon it, don’t know what it is? A figment of fantasy or real development.
                Sorry to wet. If you add another 1 skating rink, a little to lower the side protection closer to the ground, it is very similar to a reinforcement. Well, the combat module has not yet been made for MBT. There is only raw under self-propelled guns.
                1. Aleks tv
                  Aleks tv 5 September 2013 19: 09 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  Sorry to wet.

                  Greetings, Eugene.

                  "Climb" on your health.
                  Good info never hurts.
                  wink
                  1. Armata
                    Armata 5 September 2013 19: 27 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Aleks tv
                    Greetings, Eugene.

                    "Climb" on your health.
                    Good info never hurts.
                    I just arrived at 1 an hour ago with UVZ. Hands, feet are no longer upset, but I learned a lot about flaws. There are more problems than achievements. A torsion bar burst on a single platform. Ass for metallurgists, tore into small fragments.
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 5 September 2013 19: 32 New
                      +4
                      Zhen, greetings, how is the "Falcon" alive? We drove sparks there for repairs.
                      1. Armata
                        Armata 5 September 2013 19: 39 New
                        +4
                        Sasha, I’m on another project now, but if it’s interesting, I’ll ask the guys tomorrow and I’ll write you in PM. By the way, I welcome you both Sanya and Alexey. Sorry for the rudeness, just tired, in my head porridge.
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 5 September 2013 19: 42 New
                        +2
                        Zhenya, everything’s fine, I understand you, when there’s nothing to do with it.
                      3. Tersky
                        Tersky 5 September 2013 19: 55 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Mechanic
                        Sorry for the rudeness, just tired, in my head porridge.

                        belay But who will believe you that you’re tired and porridge the reason will not say hello laughing, I will not even write for rudeness ... laughing laughing Zhenya, Sasha, Alexey ...hi !
                      4. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 5 September 2013 19: 58 New
                        +1
                        Vit welcome drinks
                      5. Tersky
                        Tersky 5 September 2013 20: 05 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        welcome

                        drinks mutually, Sasha!
                    2. Armata
                      Armata 5 September 2013 20: 01 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Tersky
                      But who will believe you that you’re tired and porridge the reason will not say hello
                      Hi Vitya, you are a boor. I am even ashamed that I am Viktorovich laughing drinks
                    3. Tersky
                      Tersky 5 September 2013 20: 04 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Mechanic
                      I am even ashamed that I am Viktorovich

                      laughing ! good ! Well .. for the namesake, drinks ! laughing !
                  2. Aleks tv
                    Aleks tv 5 September 2013 20: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Tersky
                    Alexey... !

                    Greetings, Victor.
                    hi
            2. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 5 September 2013 19: 43 New
              +3
              Quote: Mechanic
              A torsion bar burst on a single platform.

              Figase ... etozh how to exhaust the technique ...
              I will not specify about the torsion bar.

              Good luck, Eugene!
              1. Armata
                Armata 5 September 2013 19: 49 New
                +6
                Quote: Aleks tv
                Figase ... etozh how to exhaust the technique ...
                I will not specify about the torsion bar.

                Good luck!
                Duc is not difficult just. Today at the training ground a tulip was dropped from a hill. Letyokha blunted. When the self-propelled gun is facing the sky at 30 degrees, the mechanic does not see its flags, but this fuck stands facing the car, shows the right flag and yells "To the right, to the right" Well, the mechanic drove to the right in his own way. in short, they piled the car on one side, fluff from the gun carriage jumped from the fall. Who is the stupid person? the one who sees only the sky and the reference point only to voice commands, or the one who does not understand that a person has a right on the other side?
            3. Tersky
              Tersky 5 September 2013 20: 02 New
              +5
              Quote: Mechanic
              Ass for metallurgists, tore into small fragments.

              Let it vomit now, otherwise then f * ck will be not only metallurgists ...
      2. Yon_Silent
        Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 19: 54 New
        +3
        How interesting ... All the same, this picture surfaced) Here, in fact, a very interesting machine is depicted, the development of which on the basis of the T-72 chassis was carried out by the Omsk KBTM. This is the so-called "howitzer tank", a distant descendant of the German Sturmpanzer. And even more distant-domestic KV-2.
        The purpose is the operational fire support of the advancing troops, the suppression of protected firing points, the destruction of point targets (in fact, this requires a howitzer projectile trajectory.
        The armament is a cannon / howitzer of lowered (it will not work much, the chassis can’t stand it) ballistics with a caliber from 120 to 152, an autonomous stabilized installation with a 30-mm cannon, and a heavy machine gun.
        This project remained "on paper", and it did not reach the stage of a working project, when an experimental design documentation is produced and equipment is being prepared in production.
        1. Armata
          Armata 5 September 2013 20: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: Jon_ Quiet
          the development of which on the basis of the chassis from T-72 was engaged in Omsk KBTM.
          Do not you confuse anything? KBTM has been the Design Bureau of Trans Masha all his life. So we have it on the 1 floor.
          1. Yon_Silent
            Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 20: 09 New
            +1
            hmm ... the question was taken by surprise) but went to the site, specified. Indeed, KBTM Design Bureau of Transport Engineering. Omichi also produce the T-80. http://www.kbtm-omsk.ru
            1. Armata
              Armata 5 September 2013 20: 22 New
              +2
              The address is KBTM, Yekaterinburg, the intersection of Shevskaya, Front Brigades (1 site on Sverdlov) and has always been there. Most of the available platforms were made there, and Omichi was only recently approached by UVZ as well as trans mash. And Armata was developed jointly by Omsk and Yekaterinburg, but the fact is that both design bureaus have now merged and this is now UVZ
              1. Yon_Silent
                Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 20: 40 New
                +2
                yeah ... a lot has changed. The last time in Nizhny Tagil was in 2005, we worked on a TOUR for the 195th object. SKB stood aside from the main production - we were given an excursion, taken to the workshop, and there was a semi-assembled BMPT on the slipway. But the car was called "Frame", there were no terminators.
                Alas, the project was closed, and the projectile was not required ((And UVZ, as it turned out, became the owner of the Omsk Design Bureau in 2007. Then I made a mistake, it turns out
              2. Armata
                Armata 5 September 2013 20: 48 New
                0
                Quote: Jon_ Quiet
                I was wrong then, it turns out
                It happens drinks
              3. Yon_Silent
                Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 22: 18 New
                0
                Maybe tell me about the guns for Almaty - this is a modification of 2A46? or will there be a new development
  • Armata
    Armata 5 September 2013 18: 57 New
    +3
    Quote: DEfindER
    and then 4 is completely sour, a few shots and the car turns into a machine gun on the tracks ..

    And so it’s nothing that there are 2 down-fired fluffs at 30mm each?
    1. Tersky
      Tersky 5 September 2013 20: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: Mechanic
      And so it’s nothing that there are 2 down-fired fluffs at 30mm each?

      Zhenya, don’t have to prove it; let him see it in action:
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 5 September 2013 20: 28 New
        +7
        God forbid, well, in FIG laughing
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 5 September 2013 20: 38 New
          +3
          Quote: Alex 241
          God forbid, well, on fi

          !good! It will be interesting to run away winked ? It’s a pity there is no time, otherwise I would have watched to the end, the finale, in theory and design wassat must be great laughing
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 5 September 2013 21: 17 New
            +2
            Hooray, comrades! drinks wassat )))
            1. Arberes
              Arberes 6 September 2013 10: 40 New
              +2
              TANKS RIDE FAST, THE PRESIDENT OF ALL MASTS !!!

              OBAMA accidentally ended up in a tank biathlon competition, and of course, he was cool from RUSSIAN fun!
              Interestingly, did he see underwater orientation involving nuclear submarines ???
  • igor.borov775
    igor.borov775 6 September 2013 02: 32 New
    0
    Yes, there was a cloud of specialists, Temper your requirements, I don’t believe that something was done wrong, and we don’t have to consider our engineers and designers as profane, What won’t appear right away, screams did wrong, and not at all what they expected, There are just shooters at games and there is life, and it makes such demands that the shooters did not dream, It was written that the world experience and much more that is presented to this machine have been taken into account, I am always surprised by people who have not seen and do not know what the machine is capable of, they immediately start to make noise saying they were waiting, specifically ask probably you yourself will not be able to what they specifically want, you have not even seen the car in business, but the noise,
  • Armata
    Armata 5 September 2013 18: 56 New
    +4
    Quote: seasoned
    Clinic. He would have looked more organic at the training ground, but don't understand what happens, Schwartz would have been attracted to this "show". And why is it cool first, Schwartz flies into the fire with his unforgettable "I'll be back" in "Teminator", and then drives in "Terminator-2". Customers are delighted to line up shouting "Don't give more than two in one hand, otherwise we won't have enough."
    Hi Lyoha. You are wrong here. The 2 terminator is already there and proved to be quite good with the support of T90С. In general terms, the car is excellent, based on the T72. Well, I’ll go and see how it works with T90 then we will discuss it.
    1. experienced
      experienced 5 September 2013 19: 45 New
      +6
      Quote: Mechanic
      You are wrong here. Terminator 2 already exists and performed well with the support of the T90C. In general terms, the car is excellent, based on the T72. Well, I'll go and see how it works with the T90 then we will discuss it.

      Hi Zhen hi I'm not talking about BMPT, but about a presentation in the form of a light multimedia show. I just know what amounts for this case can be "mastered" winked
      1. Armata
        Armata 5 September 2013 19: 52 New
        +5
        Quote: seasoned
        I'm not talking about BMPT, but about a presentation in the form of a light multimedia show. I just know what amounts for this case can be "mastered"
        You should have seen what amounts are being spent in Tagil for road repairs. Pindets whole city is closed, traffic is only across one road. I have not seen such traffic jams for a long time.
        1. Russ69
          Russ69 5 September 2013 20: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: Mechanic
          You should have seen what amounts are being spent in Tagil for road repairs. Pindets whole city is closed, traffic is only across one road. I have not seen such traffic jams for a long time.

          Already good for the city ... smile
          1. Armata
            Armata 5 September 2013 20: 09 New
            +2
            Quote: Russ69
            Already good for the city ...
            Doubtful benefit. Repair only on tourist routes, but in general there are simply no roads there, some pits.
            1. Tersky
              Tersky 5 September 2013 20: 53 New
              +4
              Quote: Mechanic
              but in general there are simply no roads, only pits.

              Zhenya, so we have only MKAD and Sochi, the rest is just no roads and a hole ...
              1. Armata
                Armata 5 September 2013 20: 56 New
                +3
                Quote: Tersky
                Zhenya, so we have only MKAD and Sochi, the rest is just no roads and a hole ...

                I will say more clearly. There are no pits, there are anti-tank ditches and trenches in case of defense of the city. laughing
              2. Alex 241
                Alex 241 5 September 2013 20: 58 New
                +3
                Vit, MKAD is stopped twice a year, in the left row they roll such a rut.
  • andrejwz
    andrejwz 6 September 2013 06: 29 New
    0
    Quote: seasoned
    Customers are delighted to line up shouting "Don't give more than two in one hand, otherwise we won't have enough"

    And the motherland, it seems, is not necessary. It feels like the government and I live in parallel realities.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 5 September 2013 10: 49 New
    +6
    joy in vain, do not tell me how many BMPT we bought for the army? I'll tell you if that hinot at all ... and you are delighted with BMPT-2 ....
    1. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 5 September 2013 11: 04 New
      +9
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      joy in vain, do not tell me how many BMPTs we purchased for the army?

      Come on, the time will come to buy, the money will go away ... It’s how it happened with the Carapace, they did it, then they finished it, and then it started to enter the troops ...
      Here in Syria there would be a dozen of them, for verification and revision, so to speak .....
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 5 September 2013 11: 08 New
        10
        in in Syria, yes! real tests in urban combat would not be a bad thing to do ...
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 5 September 2013 11: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      joy in vain, do not tell me how many BMPT we bought for the army? I'll tell you if that hinot at all ... and you are delighted with BMPT-2 ....

      In its initial form, it did not quite meet the requirements of the military, a large crew, an unprotected combat module (now the defense has been strengthened).
      If you buy, then you need to bring to mind first ...
      And they will buy, they will not buy it is not yet known ...
  • LaGlobal
    LaGlobal 5 September 2013 11: 53 New
    +2
    Indeed, -TERMINATOR!

    Doomsday for US Astes! soldier
  • aktanir
    aktanir 5 September 2013 12: 11 New
    0
    Interestingly, but the pictures from the game BF3 why put here as an illustration? (I recognize the Caspian border and the Elbours Mountains ... or am I wrong?)
  • Zhenya
    Zhenya 5 September 2013 10: 39 New
    +3
    Will they show Armata? Or wait for 2015?
    1. Tersky
      Tersky 5 September 2013 11: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Marrying
      Will they show Armata?

      Yeah ...., promised in September and only to representatives of the Russian government.
  • Ivan79
    Ivan79 5 September 2013 10: 40 New
    +2
    I hope the designers took into account all the wishes of the military and eliminated the shortcomings.
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 5 September 2013 10: 47 New
    +3
    Damn it, how got it, this populist intrigue and secrecy, "premiere", "modernization", "revolutionary", let’s show, at least the performance characteristics, the people will decide for themselves. BUT I am plagued by the doubt that this machine is intended for export, we have a lot for conservation of the T-72.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 5 September 2013 10: 51 New
      +4
      yes ... a batch of 10 was sold to Kazakhstan, but we don’t need to ....
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 5 September 2013 11: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: seller trucks
      Damn it, how got it, this populist intrigue and secrecy, "premiere", "modernization", "revolutionary", let’s show, at least the performance characteristics, the people will decide for themselves.

      Visit the official website of UVZ http://www.uvz.ru/ and you will be happy ... wink
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 5 September 2013 11: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: Tersky
        Go to the official website of UVZ and you will be happy ...


        came in and what? neither TTX nor BMPT-72 photos are there. no happiness
  • svp67
    svp67 5 September 2013 10: 47 New
    +7
    BMPT-72 is a revolutionary modernization of the world famous Uralvagonzavod tank - T-72.
    Well, if it is SO good, maybe it is worth buying at least one battalion for our armed forces ... at least for military tests, or, suddenly, just so unexpectedly, send a company of such modernized T72s to Syria, this is not a C300, I think "to arise "few people will, there is no better check now, and advertising too ...
  • a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 5 September 2013 11: 00 New
    +4
    That's right - you have to learn to trade in a modern way with all sorts of shows. It will be more attractive for civilians, namely they decide to give money for the next "toy" to the military. And for the pros, of course, only polygon pokatushki and postrelushki.
  • crossbow
    crossbow 5 September 2013 11: 05 New
    +1
    Yes, Russian generals do not want to buy in this option, they are probably waiting for a new platform, this is their only excuse.
  • a52333
    a52333 5 September 2013 11: 12 New
    +2
    Yes, at least they installed Assad’s towers so that he could try a couple of dozen Terminators there. And to yourself in the South-East Military District is obligatory.
  • bulvas
    bulvas 5 September 2013 11: 17 New
    +1
    Another trade show for our younger brothers from warm countries
  • Bekzat
    Bekzat 5 September 2013 11: 24 New
    +8
    Greetings to all, I am glad that such machines are in service with us. There are about 1000 T-72 in Kazakhstan, of which half will be converted to BMPT, I hope that the contracts will be completed and the rest of the cars will be brought to BMPT-72 !!!
    1. VOLCHOXURAL
      VOLCHOXURAL 5 September 2013 12: 38 New
      +3
      And in Russia there are about 20000! If you bring them to mind. That is not equal to our army on this planet !!!
      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        Alexey Prikazchikov 5 September 2013 14: 04 New
        -1
        What 20 thousand? Together with those that are in the storage of roofing felts 9 roofing felts 10 thousand. And then make allowance for our mismanagement hailing from the union. And this means that 40 percent is in such a condition that their restoration or remaking at least to the bridge-laying machine or to the repair tow truck is simply unreasonable.
    2. Kasym
      Kasym 5 September 2013 18: 51 New
      +8
      Bekzat, good evening. You are mistaken on the armament of 980 T-72 tanks. In reserve 4 more tanks. Here from the reserve will be converted into BMPT-000. I suspect that this BMPT-72 (or BMPT-72) sample was made just for our order. We hit 2 pcs. BMPT before. Tested in our conditions - gave the go-ahead. We decided that the next ones should be based on the T-4 from the reserve. From here I think that this model, which will be at the exhibition, will then go straight to Kazakhstan. So we are waiting with special interest !!! hi
      1. Mature naturalist
        Mature naturalist 5 September 2013 22: 57 New
        +2
        Quote: Kasym
        then go straight to Kazakhstan

        Maybe then at least you will sell his Assad?
      2. Bekzat
        Bekzat 6 September 2013 13: 36 New
        0
        Thanks for the exact information.
  • Nick888
    Nick888 5 September 2013 11: 26 New
    +1
    For some reason, I thought about the film) And yes, it would be better shown at the training ground.
  • Sirs
    Sirs 5 September 2013 11: 46 New
    +1
    The main competitor of the BMPT terminator is the German PUMA.
    + cougars is air delivery i.e. quick response to the situation.
    + weight 30 tons and is brought up to 45 tons by setting protection after the flight.
    - lack of missiles to destroy tanks.
    + transportation of landing.

    + terminator missile weapons.
    - lack of air transportation on dominant transport aircraft. those. a large mass of bmpt.

    IMHO.
  • ed1968
    ed1968 5 September 2013 11: 47 New
    0
    burn with curiosity to see soon
  • Hort
    Hort 5 September 2013 11: 52 New
    0
    hmm, isn't the T-55 the most massive tank of our time? After all, we only have about 5k, if I'm not mistaken :)
  • Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 12: 56 New
    +3
    The lack of an order for the BMPT developed by the Ministry of Defense of the UKBTM reflects the unpleasant fact that the machine does not meet modern requirements in terms of the range of weapons. Moreover, inferior to the same requirements 25 years ago! But what was supposed to be (development of the Tula KBP) was the end of the 80s. Unfortunately, the advertising company conducted by UKBTM is organized in such a way that any criticism of the machine is equated with anti-patriotism.
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 13: 03 New
      0
      Jon Quiet
      PHOTO is bigger and what kind of cars are there?
  • left-wing
    left-wing 5 September 2013 13: 02 New
    0
    Hmm, interesting instance
  • The comment was deleted.
  • karbit
    karbit 5 September 2013 13: 04 New
    +1
    waiting for the execution of liquid metal)))
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Vitali-46
    Vitali-46 5 September 2013 13: 10 New
    +2
    Peace to your home gentlemen !!! The car is certainly good !!! But here is a name, not ours, not Russian !! Why did they call it that? After all, how many equipment do we have with the original names .. In America, they’re unlikely to do that,
    and we have nothing, it rolls! It is not clear at all, the product is made in RUSSIA !! And the name ......


    Regards to you !!
    1. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 5 September 2013 22: 59 New
      -1
      Quote: Vitaliy-46
      But here is a name of some kind, not ours, not Russian!

      I propose to give a name - "Thresher"
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 5 September 2013 23: 02 New
        -1
        I offer such BMPT "Meat grinder" - we always think about you laughing
    2. vadson
      vadson 5 September 2013 23: 08 New
      -1
      Yeah, for example, call a chamomile or dandelion :-)
      ours is all right with fantasy, the troops will enter there do not hesitate
  • Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 13: 13 New
    +2
    Armament: tower installation - Two remote combat modules with 30 mm AP 2A72 with two ammunition supplies, stabilized in two planes, the ammunition load of 1100 pcs.
    - 2 x 7, 62 mm PKT machine gun coaxial with 2A72.
    - ATGM “Cornet” (Competition-M) on the right stand-alone installation. (BC 6 pcs.)
    case - Two course vertical stabilized autonomous installations:
    - 30 (40) -mm automatic anti-personnel grenade launcher, with an ammunition load of 300 rounds.
    - PKT machine gun with an ammunition load of 2000 rounds.
    In addition, cannon systems with 30 mm cannons have the ability to independently (!) Aim. The sides and sterns of the stabilized machine-gun mounts are protected, as well as the anti-tank system. In contrast to the development of the UKBTM, the feed and sides of the car are covered with armor, and there are no weakened zones in the frontal projection. You can see this car in Kubinka if you can get to the closed section of the museum
  • Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 13: 21 New
    +3
    Armament: turret - 100 mm gun launcher (2A70). Ammunition 50 rounds, including guided missiles.
    - 30 mm AP 2A72 with two supplies of ammunition. Ammunition 500 rounds.
    - 30 (40) -mm automatic anti-personnel grenade launcher

    - 7, 62 mm PKT machine gun, stabilized and mounted independently.
    case - Two course vertical stabilized autonomous installations:
    - 30 (40) -mm automatic anti-personnel grenade launcher, with an ammunition load of 300 rounds.
    - Two autonomous machine guns PKT mounted on the right and left side of the BMPT with an ammunition load of 1000 rounds for each.


    This was the main version of the research work "Suppression" carried out at the KBP under the leadership of A.I.Shipunov. It became the main one due to the possibility of destroying hidden targets with a powerful high-explosive projectile. And the vehicle is also well-armored, the sides are covered with machine-gun installations, the crew has the ability to dismount. The gun mounts are protected from bullets and shrapnel.
    1. Hort
      Hort 5 September 2013 14: 04 New
      +1
      and on the basis of which chassis?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 14: 27 New
    +6
    The chassis of the Object 167 served as the base - so we can say that this is a cousin for the T-72.
    The concept of the creation of BMPTs and the operational-tactical substantiation of its application, including the simulation of combined arms combat using BMPTs as part of tank and motorized rifle units, testing of existing experimental models of such vehicles was carried out by 38 research institutes of the RF Ministry of Defense. That is, the military knew what they needed and for what, which served as the basis for issuing an informed TK.
    The head of the car was the design bureau of the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant GSKB-2, for a complex of weapons and the SBB-Tula KBP. That is, organizations that have had significant experience in creating new types of weapons.
    To my bewilderment, these BMPT samples developed by ChTZ were not openly demonstrated and until recently there was practically no mention of them in the media. Tests of the vehicle took place back in 1989 at the Chebarkul training ground and demonstrated the compliance of the main characteristics and combat capabilities with the requirements of the TK. Of course, it was necessary to arrange "cockroach races", training in the troops, to treat "childhood diseases" - without this, nowhere ... but the great and mighty ordered to live long.
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled 5 September 2013 17: 16 New
      +2
      BMPT development KB ChTZ
      The main weapons complex was developed in two versions:
      1. The twin-turret version included an 100 mm gun launcher (OPU 2A70) with an ammunition load of 50 rounds. The 30 mm 2A72 automatic cannon with two ammunition feeds and the 40-mm automatic anti-personnel grenade launcher were housed in a single unit with the control system. In addition to the main armament, the tower was equipped with an autonomous stabilized machine gun installation with the 7, 62 mm PKT machine gun.
      To defeat armored targets for the control system, a complex of guided weapons was developed that would hit the target from the upper hemisphere and shells with a volume-detonating mixture “Sector-2”. The weapon system was ideally suited for the effective destruction of concealed targets.
      In addition to the main armament, in a double turret in the hull there are two course vertical stabilized autonomous installations with an 30 (40) -mm automatic anti-personnel grenade launcher and a PKT machine gun. Two autonomous PKT machine guns mounted on the right and left side of the BMPT. The body was equipped with BPK-2-28 and PPB-2 sights for PKT course installations with a tracking electric drive and a firing sector of 90 degrees horizontally and + 20 ... -3 degrees vertically.
      The combat crew of the BMPT developed at CT ChTZ was seven people, five of them had the opportunity, if necessary, dismounting. Thus, unlike the Tagil machine, the ChTZ variant had an important advantage in the possibility of calculating BMPT actions both while in the car and, if necessary, dismounted. The BMPT commander had the opportunity to duplicate the actions of the gunner, and use weapons with a decrease in the overall effectiveness of the fire no more than 20%.
      2. Version with two remote combat modules with 30 mm AP 2A72 with two supplies of ammunition, stabilized in two planes and paired with them 7, 62 mm machine guns PKT. The operators of the two remote combat modules could independently search for and defeat individual targets and were placed no higher than the roof of the vehicle body. To destroy tanks and heavy infantry fighting vehicles, one of the installations was equipped with the Kornet ATGM in an armored container. Other types of weapons could also be installed on the outer sides of the combat modules, depending on the conditions for the use of the BMPT.
      Two vertical stabilized vertical autonomous installations with an 30 (40) mm automatic anti-personnel grenade launcher and a PKT machine gun were installed in the hull, similar to the first version of armament. To protect the sides and aft projection, an autonomous stabilized installation with FCT was used. General arms control, the distribution of targets between members of the calculation was carried out by the commander of the machine.
      Based on a comparison of BMPT weapons developed by UKBTM and KB ChTZ, the complete superiority of the options developed by KB ChTZ and KBP is evident.
      Both weapons of the BMPT are based on the experience of developing weapons systems for the promising BMP-3.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 5 September 2013 21: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: self-propelled
        1. The twin-turret version included an 100 mm gun launcher (OPU 2A70) with an ammunition load of 50 rounds.

        Is it advisable to place an 100mm gun on the BMPT? This fact may be the reason for the recognition of this armored object TANKOM (due to the presence of almost tank caliber guns).
        And Russia, as you know, is bound by the CFE Treaty on the placement of a STRICTLY DEFINED number of tanks in its European part ...
        And can such a tool be useful (effective) for BMPT?
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 5 September 2013 21: 22 New
          +2
          Quote: Corsair
          And can such a tool be useful (effective) for BMPT?

          When the BMPT is equipped with a short-barreled large-caliber gun, the question of the need for an "assault" city tank is partially resolved.
          Plus an artillery barrel in the "first" ranks of the infantry, protected by tank armor in all other cases.

          In any case, the platoon-company armament line should include ALL calibers on the vehicle group of this unit.
          This is a question for GRAU and GSh: "where" (on which machine) and "what" (caliber) to place the barrel.
        2. self-propelled
          self-propelled 5 September 2013 21: 25 New
          +1
          Quote: Corsair
          Is it advisable to place an 100mm gun on the BMPT?

          The main objective of the BMPT is the fight against equipment and (or) infantry, which pose a threat to tanks on the battlefield. the high-explosive fragmentation effect on the target of the 100-mm projectile is a priori higher than that of the 30-mm. in addition, for an 100-mm projectile it is easier to create a remote detonation system than for an 30-mm projectile. And the firing range is more ...
          Quote: Corsair
          This fact may be the reason for the recognition of this armored object TANKOM (due to the presence of almost tank caliber guns).

          it is more likely not the caliber of the main weapon, but the purpose of the machine itself. I think somewhere like that. with respect hi
        3. Yon_Silent
          Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 21: 26 New
          +1
          Yes, the CFE Treaty limited the number of tanks and armored vehicles. But on July 13, 2007, President Vladimir Putin signed a decree “On the suspension by the Russian Federation of the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe and related international treaties”. Simply put, a moratorium on the operation of the treaty was declared. So, from the point of view of international law, Russia’s hands are not tied.
          As for the 100-mm cannon, it is not without reason called a "launcher" - such a trick with the ears. The object was created even before the signing of the CFE Treaty.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 5 September 2013 22: 24 New
            -1
            Quote: Jon_ Quiet
            Yes, the CFE Treaty limited the number of tanks and armored vehicles. But on July 13 of July 2007, President Vladimir Putin signed a decree "On the suspension by the Russian Federation of the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe and related international treaties."


            I checked your information and admit, due to my ignorance of the suspension of the CFE Treaty, I was partially wrong. request
    2. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 5 September 2013 17: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Jon_ Quiet
      The head of the car was the design bureau of the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant GSKB-2, for a complex of weapons and the SBB-Tula KBP

      This car needs to be modified. With one tower and independent modules.
      IMHO, of course, but very solid IMHO.
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled 5 September 2013 18: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: Aleks tv
        This car needs to be modified

        ChTZ machines were developed according to the tactical and technical requirements developed even in the USSR. Moreover, the requirements were thought out, including on the basis of experience with the use of BTT in Afghanistan. At the beginning of the 90's, cars were tested at the Chebarkul training center, after which the well-known events of the 90's began and they forgot about the car. Why, when creating their BMPT, UKBTM did not take into account the experience and achievements of their colleagues remains a mystery.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 5 September 2013 18: 48 New
          +2
          Quote: self-propelled
          ChTZ machines were developed according to the tactical and technical requirements developed even in the USSR. Moreover, the requirements were thought out, including on the basis of experience with the use of BTT in Afghanistan. At the beginning of the 90's, cars were tested at the Chebarkul training center, after which the well-known events of the 90's began and they forgot about the car.

          Absolutely.
          1. self-propelled
            self-propelled 5 September 2013 21: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: Aleks tv
            Absolutely sure

            Alex, drinks
            the topic itself regarding cars of this class is interesting. the need for such machines as part of the SV units has not yet subsided. and such machines do not exist in foreign defense departments (I mean living machines, not outline designs) ... and, I think, BMPT has development prospects
  • starhina01
    starhina01 5 September 2013 14: 34 New
    +1
    a lot of brilliant work is being done, but not everyone is allowed into the series soldier
  • Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 14: 46 New
    +5
    I don’t know about the genius) Usually, the military are very suspicious of technology that has a certain novelty. Let us recall the ordeals with which a machine gun was put into service under the tsar (they say, the consumption of cartridges will be large), and the project of the Austrian tank in 1913 (!) Was rejected with the resolution "The author of the idea went crazy." The famous T-34 appeared only thanks to Koshkin's reinforced concrete confidence in his righteousness. His student Morozov behaved the same way in the situation with the T-64. Similar stories are connected with camouflage, barbed wire, mortars, aviation, and a lot of things ..
    In the case of domestic BMPT, the fact of loss of time and money is annoyed. The designers then ate their bread for a reason - they managed to create something quite sensible. And now this something is now quietly decaying on the site, like grain that has not sprouted.
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 5 September 2013 14: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Jon_ Quiet
      Usually, the military is very suspicious of equipment that has a certain novelty.

      There is such a letter.
      But what's new here?
      - The base is worked out.
      - Weapons known.

      Quote: Jon_ Quiet
      managed to create something quite sensible.

      Yes, at least we completed something from the experimental work.

      We are waiting for the exhibition.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 5 September 2013 14: 47 New
    +2
    BMPT is the deployment of a small-caliber weapons complex based on a serial tank.
    The development of such a concept has been ongoing for a long time.

    The absence of these machines in the troops can be justified by a bunch of all sorts of reasons and factors, ranging from tactics of use, ending with a banal lack of money.
    But machines of this class are needed in the troops.
    They would be very useful to us at one time.

    The most interesting is: WHO issued TTZ on Terminator-2?
    GRAU?
    Or again the plant initiator itself?
    What tasks will this machine solve and how will it be better than the first model?

    Let's look at the exhibition.
    Good luck UVZ!
    1. avt
      avt 5 September 2013 16: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Aleks tv
      BMPT is the deployment of a small-caliber weapons complex based on a serial tank.
      The development of such a concept has been ongoing for a long time.

      This is what the Kazakhs buy and the Algerians were allowed to drive - well. But why do we need a crew of 5 people? And then make an escort car for the BMPT? Or maybe here is a variant of a protected BMP with "Bakhchi" based on the 72nd, that's like the Chelyabinsk development
      Quote: Jon_ Quiet
      The chassis of the Object 167 served as the base - so we can say that this is a cousin for the T-72.
      Preferred? That is why it seems to me that they will soon demand a bigger gun for the space of one 30mm and in the end they will return to Bakhche again.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 5 September 2013 19: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: avt
        Preferred? That is why it seems to me that they will soon demand a bigger gun for the space of one 30mm and in the end they will return to Bakhche again.

        Greetings avt (don't know the name)

        I have always been more impressed by the Chelyabinsk “781 Object”, an 2 variant.
        There were rumors about him in our troops, it is a pity that this project did not see the light of day.

        About BMPT UVZ - not a fan, but it is already "in the metal" - it is already possible to use it.
        Firmly convinced of the need for such a technique.
        More than once I wrote on this site options for its (BMPT UVZ) practical use.

        When I was searching on the internet for something official about adopting this machine, I came across interesting material:
        Quote from an article by M.M. Usov:
        ... April 24 2008 in Moscow at the Combined Arms Academy of the RF Armed Forces, on the territory of the former VA BTV (Lefortovo), a thesis was defended for the degree of Doctor of Technical Sciences by an employee of 38 Research Institute of the RF Ministry of Defense, Ph.D. Parfenov Evgeny Ivanovich on the topic "Justification and assessment of the technical appearance of the machine to support tanks (BMPT)." Leading organization: OJSC VNIItransmash, St. Petersburg. Scientific Advisor: Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Didusev B.A. (38 Research Institute). Official opponents:
        • Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Brilev O.N. (OA Armed Forces of the Russian Federation);
        • Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Sokolov V.Ya. (TsNIItochmash, Podolsk);
        • Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Kostyashev N.N. (NII-4, Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation) ....

        Summarizing their opinion on BMPT, we can conclude:
        1. Although the BMPT (the “199 facility”) has several disadvantages, it can become a useful element of the Russian armored forces.
        2. BMPT does not replace the main tank in battle, but only provides him with fire support, destroying grenade launchers, ATGM calculations, etc., taking on the execution of some of the infantry tasks.
        3. The appearance of the BMPT does not exclude, but, on the contrary, emphasizes once again the need for the armed forces to have heavy infantry fighting vehicles and heavy armored personnel carriers, which are so necessary for the needs of local conflicts and for interacting with tanks when breaking through a particularly powerful defense. Ultimately, it is necessary to create a set of combat vehicles of the echelon of the leading edge.
        4. The armor protection of the outward-launched rocket-cannon weapons is of some concern. Until now, there is no firm certainty about which weapons installation scheme, whether handed down or in the reserved volume, should be implemented at the BMPT.
        5. It is clear that the BMPT was created with the expectation of using a standardized weapon system that was tested in practice with other Russian military equipment, but keep in mind that the 30-mm gun is not considered the most promising, the preferred 45-57 mm ... caliber.


        It is a competent opinion.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 5 September 2013 19: 48 New
          +3
          Lesch
          instead of PKTM, I would install the GShG, see this device in action, a killer thing.
          1. shinobi
            shinobi 5 September 2013 19: 59 New
            +2
            It eats a lot, but it will be irrational for such a technique. But the thought is exciting. A second volley, all without armor in chips and candy.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 5 September 2013 20: 02 New
              +1
              On such systems there is a cutoff machine, a queue of 50 rounds.
          2. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 5 September 2013 20: 07 New
            +1
            Quote: Alex 241
            I would instead of PKTM, GShG put

            Sasha, the idea itself is very good.

            Regarding the GSHG: they somehow fermented with the helicopter pilots, they said that this "thing" is capricious in maintenance, if it works, then it is better not to go into it and not even lubricate it ... laughing
            I don’t know if it is or not. And PCT is reliable.

            But we dreamed of a multi-barrel 7,62 machine gun ...
            Rgshnika "to blame" the very thing.
            I've always had ahem .. little problems with aiming with the twin.

            In general, an entire line of weapons in caliber, located on several military vehicles operating together, is needed.
            This is a question for the RSAU and the General Staff.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 5 September 2013 20: 11 New
              +2
              Quote: Aleks tv
              it’s better not to get into it or even lubricate it
              The golden rule of mechanics: do not interfere with the work of the machine. True, it’s just washed with kerosene for lubrication. The main thing about reliability is not to overheat, the helicopters chopped it out, cut the P-machine, on the trigger on your navel, and the whole BC in one queue.
            2. shinobi
              shinobi 5 September 2013 20: 16 New
              +1
              And let's dream a little, a little bit? After fine-tuning the product according to the wishes of the suffering public, stick an AI on it, like the Israelis on their promising anti-aircraft gun. Or in the image of our ship's air defense, so that a full-fledged heavy drone turns out?
        2. avt
          avt 5 September 2013 21: 18 New
          0
          Quote: Aleks tv
          3. The appearance of the BMPT does not exclude, but, on the contrary, emphasizes once again the need for the armed forces to have heavy infantry fighting vehicles and heavy armored personnel carriers, which are so necessary for the needs of local conflicts and for interacting with tanks when breaking through a particularly powerful defense. Ultimately, it is necessary to create a set of combat vehicles of the echelon of the leading edge.

          hi A campaign instead of, let's say, a set of two BPMs or BMPs with the possibility of mounting additional protection doesn’t matter what type it has with a universal combat module, we get a bunch of different samples for which we then justify the need for them. And again, instead of unification, we get different types and groans about the inappropriateness of equipment to combat conditions. This despite the fact that creating BMP1 we were practically preparing to solve precisely these problems, life simply threw up conditions for improvement.
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 5 September 2013 21: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: avt
            And again, instead of unification, we get different types and groans about the inappropriateness of equipment to combat conditions.

            hi
            All questions to GSH and GRAU.
            In theory, this is their job.
            We are waiting for a "line" of new machines and options for upgrading old equipment, harmoniously complementing each other during "work".
            We are waiting.
            1. self-propelled
              self-propelled 5 September 2013 22: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: Aleks tv
              We are waiting for a "line" of new machines and options for upgrading old equipment, harmoniously complementing each other during "work".

              Alexei, more than once I met on the network such a scheme of a whole family based on the T-80 (if I'm not mistaken).
              it only remains to embody it in metal (it would be nice on the basis of "Armata") ...
              1. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 5 September 2013 22: 35 New
                +1
                Quote: self-propelled
                it remains only to translate into metal

                Yep ...
                Eheh.
                1. self-propelled
                  self-propelled 5 September 2013 22: 38 New
                  0
                  But the need for such a family is obvious. Is it all about finance? or is something (someone) still interfering?
  • Mjolnir
    Mjolnir 5 September 2013 14: 51 New
    +2
    He participated in the preparation of an arms exhibition in 2011 (the construction of permanent exhibition pavilions).
    I personally watched the "terminator" during the preparation for the show. I think that many doubt this sample in vain. The power is incredible.
  • Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 15: 24 New
    +1
    From TK to the Tagil machine, a muddy story. Either BMPT at UKBTM OJSC was created to meet the requirements of the customer, or vice versa, the customer was forced to write a statement of work for what was created. In any case, now there is a result.
    It is possible to check the viability of design decisions only in combat conditions or in training conditions. It’s not worthwhile to sing hosanna or, worse, to find fault in advance, this is the work of many heads and hands. You can only respect it. Personally, I wish good luck to this machine so that it is loved and respected by the troops.
  • Mjolnir
    Mjolnir 5 September 2013 15: 25 New
    +2
    2011. Tagil.
    1. Yon_Silent
      Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 15: 32 New
      +1
      Thank you for the photo.
  • Mjolnir
    Mjolnir 5 September 2013 15: 28 New
    +1
    Polygon. Tagil.
    1. Yon_Silent
      Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 15: 37 New
      +1
      Was the exhibition at the Prospector organized?
  • Mjolnir
    Mjolnir 5 September 2013 15: 44 New
    +1
    Of course. Polygon of the Institute of metal testing
  • rpek32
    rpek32 5 September 2013 16: 07 New
    +1
    Hurray would not shout for now, if we take into account the information from here, it turns out that the T-2 will primarily be exported to countries that decide to improve their T-72.

    http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-5874.htm
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 5 September 2013 19: 55 New
    +3
    Terminator 2/72 a pass-through option is already in development. Terminator 2 based on Almaty with 45 or 57mm ..
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 5 September 2013 21: 30 New
    +3
    Quote: Mechanic
    Quote: Aleks tv
    Greetings, Eugene.

    "Climb" on your health.
    Good info never hurts.
    I just arrived at 1 an hour ago with UVZ. Hands, feet are no longer upset, but I learned a lot about flaws. There are more problems than achievements. A torsion bar burst on a single platform. Ass for metallurgists, tore into small fragments.

    Do you even know what kind of suspension she has ?? LOPNULA YOU FANTASY AGAIN! FANTASER !!!)) FOR YOU SPECIALLY INFA-ON MBT WAS NOT A BREAKAGE OF FUR PARTS! AND TELL PLEASE HOW YOU GENERALLY Could SEE THAT IF IT IS EARTHED TO THE EARTH WHILE RIDING IS COVERED BY A COVER !! ??? AND ALREADY LONG AGAIN CLOSED!
    BECAUSE YOU SEEED OR STOKED ???
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 5 September 2013 21: 39 New
      +2
      You would be easier on the turns, dear! I have known Evgeny for more than a year, and he never drove a "snowstorm". And he deservedly enjoys authority and respect here.
    2. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 5 September 2013 22: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      LOPNULA YOU FANTASY AGAIN! dreamer!!!

      Why yell then?
      Already in my ears rang from the "caps lock".

      If you want to communicate - communicate normally.

      About veracity:
      You, for example, are sure. that I am not a Martian?
      This is it, we are all on the internet.
      But two or three, casually thrown phrases, can tell a lot to those who understand the "topic".
      For example, I have no questions to the Mechanic on other "topics", why then not trust his info about Armata?

      What is the problem then?

      1. Do you actually want to talk about military issues?
      2. Or do you have a personal dislike for Eugene?

      I will answer for myself immediately on both points:
      1. If you want, then let's talk. This is interesting if you are special. Full respect.
      2. Then I absolutely do not care to read squabbles - I don’t want to.

      It seems not rude.
      Good luck.
  • Mjolnir
    Mjolnir 5 September 2013 21: 54 New
    0
    I found another photo on my computer. It was at this exhibition that I realized that for Russia everything is still ahead, and not in the past, as many say.
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 5 September 2013 22: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: Aleks tv
    Quote: alexpro66
    LOPNULA YOU FANTASY AGAIN! dreamer!!!

    Why yell then?
    Already in my ears rang from the "caps lock".

    If you want to communicate - communicate normally.

    About veracity:
    You, for example, are sure. that I am not a Martian?
    This is it, we are all on the internet.
    But two or three, casually thrown phrases, can tell a lot to those who understand the "topic".
    For example, I have no questions to the Mechanic on other "topics", why then not trust his info about Armata?

    What is the problem then?

    1. Do you actually want to talk about military issues?
    2. Or do you have a personal dislike for Eugene?

    I will answer for myself immediately on both points:
    1. If you want, then let's talk. This is interesting if you are special. Full respect.
    2. Then I absolutely do not care to read squabbles - I don’t want to.

    It seems not rude.
    Good luck.

    I am writing in the dark potoyu such garbage! Eugene’s personal hostility only for one reason, let him stop the tales about rebar, he doesn’t know anything about her and can’t know, but heals the whole forum! I asked him to stop fantasies a hundred times! When asked if I know more than him, the answer is yes! Kgo knowledge gleaned from the Internet can re-read my posts there everything is intelligible!
    I got smoked, so I think this is not an insult!
    Plus, I see how admins throw thousands of minuses on the forum if they tried to argue with the "respected" forum users!
    1. Kars
      Kars 5 September 2013 22: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: alexpro66
      The question is, do I know more than him? The answer is yes!

      This is not funny.
      I believe in mechanics --- Alexpro66 no.
      Well this is my personal opinion. Maybe it means something.
      1. alexpro66
        alexpro66 5 September 2013 22: 29 New
        +1
        Free account, nothing! TROLL AND HAVE INFORMATION DIFFERENT THINGS! FIRST YOU MUCH MUCH BIGGER THAN SECOND! AND WHAT YOU OPINION ABOUT INE - I EVERYTHING IS EQUAL!
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 5 September 2013 22: 31 New
          +1
          Yes, dear, you have obvious problems with communication, you can’t even bring your opinion normally!
        2. Kars
          Kars 5 September 2013 22: 35 New
          +2
          Quote: alexpro66
          TROLLING AND HAVING INFORMATION DIFFERENT THINGS

          Well, do not tell me. In order to have quality trolling, you need to have information on the topic. And I have not yet been accused of poor-quality trolling.
          Quote: alexpro66
          WHICH YOU OPINION ABOUT INE - I EVERYTHING IS EQUAL!

          It would be all the same, you would be silent, and you would not write anything.
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 5 September 2013 22: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: Alex 241
    You would be easier on the turns, dear! I have known Evgeny for more than a year, and he never drove a "snowstorm". And he deservedly enjoys authority and respect here.

    Maybe in other topics and did not drive, but about armature continuous fantasies! I communicate with people directly involved in the development of OBT and it is ridiculous to read his stupid things!
    1. Yon_Silent
      Yon_Silent 5 September 2013 23: 04 New
      +1
      My dear friend, the statement about fantasies about Armata may well turn out to be true. This is not my business, and I am not going to get into this showdown. But here's an attempt to prove this truth by listing the real characteristics, requirements of TK, test results and the fact of their conduct, it smells very bad. For if you know them - this information - and are going to use them as an argument, then the disclosure of state secrets will take place. I am sure that the TK is stamped "SS", on the working materials "C" and "DSP", which means that nothing good will happen. Neither the one who speaks nor the one who listened.
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 5 September 2013 22: 35 New
    +2
    Quote: Alex 241
    Yes, dear, you have obvious problems with communication, you can’t even bring your opinion normally!

    Well, with people like Kars it’s impossible to communicate normally! I personally have never been the first to offend anyone this is the prerogative of those who have many stars on the shoulder straps.
  • Alex 241
    Alex 241 5 September 2013 22: 37 New
    0
    Quote: alexpro66
    Well, with people like Kars it’s normal to talk normally
    Did not notice.
    Quote: alexpro66
    many stars on uniform.
    And what offended you?
    1. alexpro66
      alexpro66 6 September 2013 18: 37 New
      +3
      Re-read the correspondence with Kars-at this "respected" when the "arguments" end, the flood file with insults is turned on.
      1. Kars
        Kars 6 September 2013 18: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: alexpro66
        "when end" arguments

        What kind of organizations can there be for Fairy Tales? .. to a person who tells him that they showed him reports on testing 152 mm tank guns)) but I won’t tell military secrets)))
  • Hort
    Hort 6 September 2013 07: 10 New
    0
    a little away from the main topic.

    I have always been interested in the question: why has not the concept of new "anti-tank weapons" - missile tanks been developed? It seems that the same IT "Dragon" was in the army in a small series?
    And now, technologies allow improving the launch system by making, say, launchers non-retractable in an uninhabited tower, adding, along with ATGMs, an installation with NURSs.

    Z.Y. I understand perfectly that the weapon system, as on the BMPT, is, in principle, preferable, but still :)
    How expedient is the addition / reinforcement of tank units with such vehicles?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Yon_Silent
      Yon_Silent 7 September 2013 13: 30 New
      +1
      The concept of the "missile" tank received its new development after the unexpected success that accompanied the developers of the Cobra tank guided missile. At one time in the United States, work was carried out on a similar product (they were pioneers) called "Shilella" (a club, that is). The Americans seemed to have brought to mind the HC complex itself, but it turned out that the revision associated with installing it in a serial tank would be about the cost of developing a new tank. So they refused.
      "Cobra" was chronologically developed later, and the designers of KB TochMash had the opportunity not to step on the same rake. And when it turned out that everything was working out, it was decided to close the "rocket" IT-1 tank. Why is it needed, if in the future every serial tank will be able to shoot the same missiles through the barrel of the main gun? As, in principle, it happened.
      And as for the NURS on the BMPT, then look at the photo. Shown here is the so-called "Viper" - a post-Soviet development of the Chelyabinsk GSKB-2. Judging by the caliber of the launchers, it is very similar to the C-5
  • Letterksi
    Letterksi 6 September 2013 09: 15 New
    0
    "... will take place in the form of a multimedia light show in a specially built presentation center" it would be better if they showed it at the test site. Somehow the combat vehicle does not fit in with the light multimedia show. There is nothing better than a reality show
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 6 September 2013 19: 07 New
    +2
    Quote: Jon_ Quiet
    My dear friend, the statement about fantasies about Armata may well turn out to be true. This is not my business, and I am not going to get into this showdown. But here's an attempt to prove this truth by listing the real characteristics, requirements of TK, test results and the fact of their conduct, it smells very bad. For if you know them - this information - and are going to use them as an argument, then the disclosure of state secrets will take place. I am sure that the TK is stamped "SS", on the working materials "C" and "DSP", which means that nothing good will happen. Neither the one who speaks nor the one who listened.

    I absolutely agree with you, dear, I would be happy to give out some preliminary figures, but it's not even about the secrecy, but about the incorrectness of these figures - if they tell me some numbers, it's all unfounded until I get confirmation from others " sources ". And given the VERY WELL-organized system of secrecy, sometimes I myself "starve" for several days without information. For example, the motors, as I "overheard" one conversation, have a capacity of 1500 and 1800 hp, depending on the party (the chelyab has already put at least 5 x-engines on uvz, but I don't have and never will have documentary evidence for members of the forum). This conversation started specifically because of the Mechanic! For me, a person more or less aware of the constant state of the MBT is ridiculous to read his fabrications - what was his story about the finished chassis at the end of August PAST! year which he personally saw on the move! although at that time they did not even begin to cook it yet, but they were preparing the equipment !!! What's this called ?? Nonsense and lies! And I wrote down everything else point by point in the correspondence with him - you can reread it by clicking on my nickname. There they adjusted the mode so that even for VV, Rogozin personally made pictures for the report !! And as to the body of the MBT in the workshop, a sooo limited circle of persons was allowed, I know them all by their family name .. And he feeds you with fairy tales and you swallow! Let him repeat these nonsense, either on an adventure or on courage, he would have gotten to the bottom in an instant (on the adventure, by the way, Khlopotov long ago evaluated his fairy tales))) In short, do not be too lazy to re-read my posts and you will be clear!
  • alexpro66
    alexpro66 6 September 2013 19: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    "when end" arguments

    What kind of organizations can there be for Fairy Tales? .. to a person who tells him that they showed him reports on testing 152 mm tank guns)) but I won’t tell military secrets)))

    The young man I saw the first reports back in 2003, but are you really so naive considering that I SHOWN them for copying and distribution on the network ??? The same Khlopotov and several other respected bloggers have had them since 2010, but something none of them posted a single line from the reports ... And you yourself are not the person whom I would like to prove something! Do not deserve!))
    1. Kars
      Kars 6 September 2013 20: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      The young man I saw the first reports back in the distant 2003 year

      If it’s honestly a campaign, you’re simply inadequate. Or you drink a lot. You don’t create the impression of a person who knows something, but look like a person who invents fairy tales based on rumors. Which I know abound.
      Quote: alexpro66
      did not SHOW them for copying and distribution on the network ???

      and who are you, in principle, such that you showed something? You can without a name.
      Quote: alexpro66
      . And personally, you are not the person whom I would like to prove something! Do not deserve!))

      And how to talk - then I do not deserve it, but as in a dispute with me it is possible to trump fairy tales)))
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 7 September 2013 21: 11 New
    0
    I consider the BMPT an important and necessary element of tank formations! good

    It is necessary to ensure the modularity of combat systems depending on the application ...
    - anti-tank
    - anti-air
    - combined arms / urban combat ... hi
  • fan_
    fan_ 9 September 2013 17: 05 New
    0
    I am wildly sorry, I have not read the entire thread, maybe it was already a similar statement, but what if you remove the missiles (in a city battle they will not be needed, and expensive to shoot at single targets, and they can detonate from being hit). But to put the complex of active protection "Arena" and send it to Syria for testing! Surely there will be useful to the soldiers. And the tanks will be unloaded.
    1. Yon_Silent
      Yon_Silent 9 September 2013 23: 15 New
      0
      In order:
      -the composition and appearance of the armament complex for BT equipment is formed by the customer — this is the GRAU according to the recommendations of its own specialized departments (closed military research institutes of the Ministry of Defense and the Armored Academy). These organizations are committed to accumulating, summarizing and analyzing the experience of using BT in military conflicts of the present and recent past. And on this basis, the most likely scenarios are modeled, according to which the technique will be developed - for this there are the necessary techniques, and the means and smart heads. Accordingly, they proceed from the simulation results when they say that rockets are still needed.
      - the high cost of a missile in terms of a "single target" is a very ... incomprehensible assumption. It is impossible to destroy a group of tanks with an anti-tank missile)) In addition, the cost of a missile is scanty compared to the cost of a tank that it can destroy;
      - Now about the possible detonation of the rocket. Yes, this possibility exists. But there are nuances worth knowing about. The terms of reference usually prescribe the probability of detonation of the warhead when hit by a bullet or shrapnel, the so-called "lumbago" resistance. For an ATGM, this probability is very small (sorry, but I can't give you the numbers). A bullet hitting the solid propellant engine compartment is even less likely to lead to detonation (the composite fuel, to be honest, does not even explode, but simply burns out quickly, and even then in a closed volume);
      - normal testing of new equipment in combat conditions is possible only in one single case - if the manufacturing country itself takes part in hostilities. According to the test results, it is necessary to draw some conclusions, make technical and organizational decisions, all this should be kept secret and closed from the prying eyes of the opposing side. This can not be done if there is any intermediary. A good example is the testing of domestic tanks during the Spanish Civil War. And what came of it.
  • fan_
    fan_ 10 September 2013 09: 20 New
    0
    Thanks for the detailed comment. By single targets, I meant snipers and grenade throwers. So far, terrorists in Syria do not have tanks. Based on this, the idea developed that before the battle in the city, remove the rockets from the guides (mounts) for a while.
  • Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 10 September 2013 12: 23 New
    0
    I understand you) I can assure you that the destruction of a sniper is a very important and priority task, for the solution of which artillery and aviation can even be involved. A high-class sniper does not work alone, it is covered up, provided with information. And no rocket for its destruction is not a pity. Moreover, products 9M114F equipped with OD warhead, and 9M114D - high explosive fragmentation.