Military Review

Ukraine: an attempt to sit on two chairs

110



The geographical location of Ukraine on the world map is reflected in most political decisions of the leadership of this country. Ukraine is at the crossroads of the “Europe-Russia” paths; therefore, it practically constantly faces the choice of the vector of its development.

The best way for Ukraine to adapt to life in the new conditions would be to establish fruitful cooperation with both Russia and the former countries of the Soviet bloc, and members of the European Union. But objectively, the situation is far from optimal. And there are many reasons for this.

One of them is the presence of anti-NATO sentiments among the majority of Ukrainians. Citizens of the country understand that the country's entry into NATO will force them to participate in all operations of a fairly aggressive military bloc, including those carried out against the independent states of the world. Even the cooperation with Europeans that took place during joint anti-piracy operations, participation in peacekeeping missions and counter-terrorism exercises, according to many observers, showed that the Ukrainian army is not of interest to NATO members. Moreover, the European Union does not need it at all.

Based on the arguments of analysts, it seems that the joint programs proposed by Europeans to Ukraine are aimed at the destruction of Ukrainian military force. In the first place in these programs is the question of the destruction of existing weapons and military equipment of Ukraine. Kiev under pressure from Europeans and the United States took part in the Partnership for Peace program. As a result of its implementation, Ukraine destroyed the Tu-22 bomber bombers (by the way, Russia modernized the Tu-22, leaving them in service). According to the program "Nunn-Lugar" Ukraine has been recycled Tu-160 "White Swan" aircraft. The same fate befell the Ukrainian missile systems 9K72, small arms and MANPADS. And all this happened for the money of the USA, which is already ready to carry out the most expensive purchase of weapons for the American army, namely the newest F-35 fighter jets.

However, the biggest and most unexpected blow for the Ukrainian army was the proposal of NATO to send for remelting Tanks T-64 If we take into account that 686 tanks of which 600 are T-64 units are in service with the Ukrainian army, it becomes clear that, having carried out this initiative of the West, the Ukrainian army will lose almost the entire fleet of tanks in service. The remaining 86 are 10 T-84U (Oplot) and 76 T-64BM (Bulat).

It should be noted that at present, Ukraine has T-1600 tanks on its bases near 64, the cost of which modernization (based on T-64 it is possible to create BMPT-64 and T64Е) are minor, and after reconstruction they can not only be put into service with the Ukrainian army, but also sell abroad. Therefore, the NATO initiative looks like an arrogant mockery of the country's army, which is already in the most difficult economic and political situation.

The question arises, why is NATO interested in joining a weakened Ukraine in the North Atlantic bloc? Most likely, it is the territory of Ukraine that is of interest to NATO strategists, and not its army.

Purely hypothetically, Ukraine’s entry into NATO could allow free deployment on its territory of naval and land units of the alliance, the well-known missile defense system and other bases. For example, the territory of Ukraine is fully consistent with the modern concept of the West’s missile defense system: namely, in places currently inaccessible to Iranian or North Korean missiles.

Few people believe the NATO members that the missile defense system deployed in European countries is not directed against Russia. Both the West and the United States are taking all measures to reduce the likelihood of a retaliatory strike from the Russian nuclear forces. And Western strategists are not stopped even by the fact that they unilaterally violate the terms of the START-3 agreement and the "Treaty on the Limitation of Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense Systems". The territory of Ukraine is very attractive for the deployment of NATO military facilities, because it brings the forces of the western aggressive military bloc directly to the borders of Russia.

It’s hard to say how sincere Viktor Yanukovych’s words were when he criticized plans to deploy missile defense elements in Eastern Europe in 2007. I was also interested in whether the missile defense systems deployed on the territory of Poland and the Czech Republic are a direct threat to Ukraine.

Another acute aspect of relations between Russia and Ukraine may be the deployment of the US naval forces on the Black Sea coast of Ukraine. This circumstance will tightly bind the hands of the Black Sea the fleet Russia over the entire sea and will cause significant damage to Russia's security, given the fact that the Aegean and Mediterranean seas are under the control of the Turkish Navy. In the event of Ukraine joining the NATO bloc, the creation of military bases of the US ground forces and the US Air Force on Ukrainian territory is not ruled out.

From all this, it is clear that the presence of the Ukrainian bridgehead will allow NATO to keep under the gun not only Russian territory, but also all countries, up to the coast of the Indian Ocean.

At present, the main question is how realistic is the plan for Ukraine to join the NATO bloc. While the position of the leadership of Ukraine, in terms of accession to the EU, is rather indecisive. Ukraine is trying to find a compromise in relations with its two strongest neighbors - Russia and the West, taking into account their personal interests. This situation does not inspire confidence in the Ukrainian authorities from Russia and the West.

In addition, an obstacle for Ukraine to join NATO is also the unresolved territorial problems between Ukraine and NATO member Romania.

Also, according to some analysts, there is a real danger that anti-NATO sentiments in Ukraine can lead to the separation of many areas from the country and the creation of independent states, and, at best, lead to a loss of confidence in the ruling group of the majority of Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian authorities understand that when joining NATO, they will be required to comply with all instructions of the leadership of the North Atlantic bloc. Perhaps this will be a proposal for the complete disarmament of the Ukrainian army or participation in another NATO military adventure in the Middle Eastern countries.

Knowing this, the Ukrainian government does not yet intend to drive Ukraine into the NATO pool, but this possibility still remains. In the meantime, the situation is in such an uncertain position, Ukraine is trying to use the NATO chip in negotiations with Russia.

Materials used:
http://www.pravda.ru/world/formerussr/ukraine/29-08-2013/1171904-ukrain-0/
http://www.pravda.ru/world/formerussr/ukraine/28-08-2013/1171743-ukrain-0/
Author:
110 comments
Ad

The editorial board of Voenniy Obozreniye urgently needs a proofreader. Requirements: impeccable knowledge of the Russian language, diligence, discipline. Contact: [email protected]

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Captain Vrungel
    Captain Vrungel 4 September 2013 07: 52 New
    14
    Bargaining. Lot "Ukraine". Who is bigger?
    1. Tersky
      Tersky 4 September 2013 08: 26 New
      +8
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      Lot "Ukraine". Who is bigger?
      The price is named
      Quote: Author Valery Boval, Dneprodzerzhinsk, Ukraine
      Based on the arguments of the analysts, it seems that the joint programs proposed by Europeans to Ukraine are aimed at the destruction of Ukrainian military power ..... The Ukrainian authorities understand that upon joining NATO they will be required to comply with all the instructions of the North Atlantic bloc leadership. Perhaps this will be a proposal for the complete disarmament of the Ukrainian army or participation in the next military adventure of NATO in the Middle East countries.
      And here a logical question arises -
      1. MG42
        MG42 4 September 2013 08: 32 New
        +8
        Quote: Tersky
        And here a logical question arises -

        Torn by vague doubts No. that with the Black Sea Fleet base in Crimea Ukraine is possible to join NATO. In addition, an all-Ukrainian referendum is obligatory here, which all Ukrainian presidents are so afraid of and afraid to hold, because preliminary polls show that topic with NATO is a failure..
        The inscription on the balls in the Verkhovna Rada does not need a translation; this is not photoshop laughing >>
        1. Orel
          Orel 4 September 2013 09: 16 New
          +2
          If Ukraine nevertheless chooses an association with the EU, then perhaps it will not join NATO. There are many examples of this. Many European countries are members of the EU, but not members of NATO ...
          1. MG42
            MG42 4 September 2013 09: 27 New
            +8
            Quote: Orel
            If Ukraine still chooses an association with the EU

            Apparently I’ve already chosen, yesterday I listened to Yanukovych’s speech
            The latest video in Ukrainian sad there is no other, if necessary, I can translate

            From association to EU membership, both on foot from Kiev to China, Turkey is already several. for decades can not go this way ..
            1. Apologet.Ru
              Apologet.Ru 4 September 2013 11: 17 New
              14
              hi
              I may repeat myself, but -
              I have a feeling of an approaching catastrophe - the collapse of the Civilization created by our ancestors during the 7521 year from the Creation of the World, a civilization called Northern or Russian.
              The collapse of the Soviet Union, which lasted only 74 of the year since the October Revolution, is considered the largest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century.
              74 years and 7521 years, the difference is 7447 years.
              Seven thousand five hundred twenty-one years of history and development, sweat and blood of Russia thrown into the dustbin of history ?!
              It does not fit in the head.
              How then, after realizing what happened, will we call this?
              If now, in 22 of the year, the majority of residents of the republics of the former USSR express the most impartial epithets to Gorbachev, or, more simply, they swear as soon as they can, what will we call those who betrayed the centuries-old aspirations of Russia?
              After all, with one movement of a pen under the agreement on the association of Ukraine with the EU, as from the category of a fraternal country for Russia, Belarus, it will turn into the category of "friendly", i.e. will become an adversary (not an enemy!), like Poland, for example, or Romania.
              Or does someone think that after ratification Ukraine will be able to pursue an independent policy or “sit on two chairs” of the EU and the CU at the same time? - I’m afraid that Nenko’s buttocks will not be wide enough - and Gay. European perverts of all colors are not asleep.
              And after that, will Ukraine return to the historical path of its development?
              When will the new Bogdan Khmelnitsky appear and the Pereyaslavskaya Rada will meet? Who knows?!
              And if he returns, then the soul of betrayal will still remain ...
              1. skeptic
                skeptic 4 September 2013 11: 52 New
                +6
                Quote: Apologet.Ru
                Or does someone think that after ratification Ukraine will be able to pursue an independent policy or “sit on two chairs” of the EU and the CU at the same time? - I'm afraid the width of buttocks is not enough for Nenko


                Enough if it falls apart into the western and eastern. request
                1. Apologet.Ru
                  Apologet.Ru 4 September 2013 13: 15 New
                  0
                  hi
                  But what about the Crimea?
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 4 September 2013 14: 01 New
                    +7
                    Quote: Apologet.Ru
                    But what about the Crimea?

                    Naturally with the East in this case >>
                    Compare 2 voting cards in 2004 and 2010, you will find differences besides Yushchenko changed from Tymoshenko, and Yanukovych is always blue?
                    The sympathy of the electorate is clearly visible >>
              2. Current 72
                Current 72 4 September 2013 17: 15 New
                0
                That is just the point, if GayEuropa will put Ukraine in two chairs, then access to the treasured hole will be facilitated, and if Ukraine will sit on one chair, this will not be possible.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Anphy
          Anphy 4 September 2013 09: 51 New
          +8
          These inscriptions on balloons for suckers of voters were kept by the Party of Regions, being in opposition. Now, being in power, they have long forgotten about all sorts of "NATO ni". Exercises with NATO are held annually, American ships are constantly calling. By the way, a "Charter on Strategic Partnership between the United States and Ukraine" was signed, which says "... to implement a program of expanded security cooperation in order to strengthen Ukraine's potential and strengthen Ukraine's candidacy for NATO membership." And this charter is being fulfilled and no Yanukovychs and the company are going to cancel its action.
          1. MG42
            MG42 4 September 2013 10: 01 New
            +6
            Remember the time of the blockade of the Rada of PR with balls, for a rather long time the parliament was paralyzed, which shook the orange government. As for the joint exercises Ukraine = NATO, so they were held under all presidents ..
            How can I join NATO if failed MAP in Bucharest ?, the train left and the Black Sea Fleet base in Sevastopol will be like an anchor in this process ..
            1. Anphy
              Anphy 4 September 2013 10: 32 New
              +4
              They were carried out. Only then did the Regionals breastfeed at the embrasures. It’s worth remembering what scandal they caused about the admission of troops to our territory. Now they are at the head of the process and there are no scandals. As for NATO, I will say it again, there is a charter and it is being implemented, and in it Ukraine’s goal is to join NATO. And the fact that they are silent about it now, so the time has not yet come. Americans are always very consistent in achieving their goals. The fact that they have calmed down in this matter does not mean at all that he is forgotten. And since all our power is at their lure and there are no patriots among them, they will do what is beneficial to them. So if it is good to interest (intimidate), then they will be in NATO and in the Martian Intergalactic Union, and anywhere.
              1. MG42
                MG42 4 September 2013 10: 48 New
                +4
                Quote: Anphy
                As for NATO, I will say it again, there is a charter and it is being implemented, and in it Ukraine’s goal is to join NATO.

                03.04.08 08:40
                Dinner in Bucharest: NATO decided to postpone Ukraine’s accession to the MAP, - source

                This charter was signed by former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Ogryzok and Condoleezza Rice in 2008
                here are excerpts >>
                The United States and Ukraine intend to expand the scope of their ongoing cooperation and assistance programs on defense and security issues to counter threats and promote peace and stability, "the text of the document signed by the foreign ministers of the two countries reads.

                It also states that "within the framework of the NATO-Ukraine Commission, our goal is to reach agreement on a structured plan to enhance interconnection and coordination of capabilities between NATO and Ukraine, including through the strengthening of training and equipment for the Ukrainian armed forces."

                "We plan to implement a program of enhanced cooperation in the field of security in order to strengthen the potential of Ukraine and strengthening candidacy Ukraine for NATO membership ", - reads the text of the charter.


                Читайте далее: http://izvestia.ru/news/441577#ixzz2du5tH7S6

                ie again through MAP bully <membership action plan> it still needs to be fulfilled, but is there an unfeasible condition to rearm the entire army according to NATO standards? winked there is no money for this and will not give <grants> ..
                1. Anphy
                  Anphy 4 September 2013 13: 26 New
                  +3
                  I know I signed it. But did someone from the current government speak out against it now? No. And they will not oppose. Because Judah.
                  As for the money necessary for NATO standards. And how much money is needed to switch to European standards in everything? And nothing, move fire.
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 4 September 2013 13: 49 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Anphy
                    But did someone from the current government speak out against it now? No. And they will not oppose. Because Judah.

                    But no one has spoken out for the current government either, this issue is simply not on the agenda at all ... even on the 5th pro-Western Ukrainian channel, I sometimes watch this topic not in the top ...
                    Quote: Anphy
                    As for the money necessary for NATO standards. And how much money is needed to switch to European standards in everything?

                    I don’t like the question to the question, now Ukraine has a peak of payments on external debts, no one gives loans .. these expenses are not provided for in the budget ..
                    Quote: Anphy
                    And nothing, move fire.

                    While we are marking time, the EU began to play with the states, and Putin seems to have decided to play "the dark" biding his time over Ukraine, so only Sergei Glazyev rushes about ... yes Onishchenko ..
                    1. MG42
                      MG42 4 September 2013 14: 17 New
                      +2
                      In general, Putin is not friends with Yanukovych .. it went a failure or you can see the video with seeds when Kuchma was still there, or when Putin publicly congratulated Yanukovych on his election victory in 2004, and then Yushchenko became president ..
              2. Misantrop
                Misantrop 4 September 2013 14: 32 New
                +5
                Quote: Anphy
                Only then did the Regionals breastfeed at the embrasures. It’s worth remembering what scandal they caused about the admission of troops to our territory.
                I do not know how in Kiev, but in Feodosia, when I blocked the port of the regionals, I did not see it then. Vitrenkivtsi - these were, and quite a few.
          2. Fastblast
            Fastblast 4 September 2013 12: 20 New
            10
            corrupt creatures are ready for anything for the feeder.
            Not a single word from the mouth of these talking heads can be trusted, not a single one!
            1. Stamp
              Stamp 4 September 2013 20: 12 New
              +5
              Quote: Fastblast
              corrupt creatures are ready for anything for the feeder.

              A place on the party list in the passage costs about $ 1 million to get into the Verkhovna Rada.
              Some deputies will manage to immediately recapture this money by switching to another faction, they are called "carcasses". Some are in the process of voting for the right laws.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 4 September 2013 14: 36 New
        +2
        I just listened to the President of Ukraine in the Rada, there he said we will join the EU and the laws are already in the Rada, however, as always he rhetorically declared in friendship and cooperation with Russia, We must believe what the government really does and not say, While it is climbing all over Europe , Calmly relate to this passage will not be so bitter, ours are pulled to the very last, not wanting, as they say, to aggravate the situation,
        1. MG42
          MG42 4 September 2013 14: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: igor.borov775
          I just listened to the President of Ukraine in the Rada there, he said we will join the EU and the laws are already in the Rada

          Among others, there is a law in the European integration package about gays, or rather the anti-discrimination law <want to punish for violation of the rights of sexual minorities when hiring> .. lol
  2. Fireman1980
    Fireman1980 4 September 2013 08: 17 New
    +5
    they dig their own grave ... spit on the opinion of their people and neighbors ... ...
    1. MG42
      MG42 4 September 2013 08: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: FireMan1980
      spit on the opinion of their people and neighbors.

      There is a key phrase of the author in the article
      Purely hypothetically, Ukraine joining NATO
  3. shark
    shark 4 September 2013 08: 21 New
    +2
    The next part of the coclo sracha. Now it will begin)))))
    1. MG42
      MG42 4 September 2013 08: 44 New
      11
      Quote: shark
      The next part of the coclo sracha. Now it will begin))))
  4. pensioner
    pensioner 4 September 2013 08: 23 New
    +4
    The photo at the beginning of the article is good. This is in the process of everything for an appointment with the Shtatov general (he sits alone) in a line lined up. Partners...
  5. cooper
    cooper 4 September 2013 08: 44 New
    -24
    Even too lazy to comment on the duck about the cut T64, and even more so for a whole million. Again, it is not worth talking about the "majority" who are against NATO and the European Union, this is speculation, nothing more. It would be correct to write about NATO that nobody cares. Or the European Union or the Customs Union, nevertheless, Better in the Euro. Somehow it will be more civilized there, and that is nice without any politics, and pointers with whom to be friends and how to be friends.
    1. Anphy
      Anphy 4 September 2013 09: 55 New
      17
      This is not a duck, but a real proposal to Ukraine, voiced this summer. And do not speak on behalf of the whole people. You would have to throat your EU with your NATO.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 4 September 2013 10: 05 New
        +4
        Quote: Anphy
        You would have to throat your EU with your NATO.
        good hi
      2. Oleg
        Oleg 4 September 2013 18: 05 New
        0
        yes, from everything ...
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 4 September 2013 10: 00 New
      10
      Quote: Cooper
      It’s better in Euro. It will be more civilized there, and that’s nice without any politics, and a pointer with whom to make friends and how to make friends.
      That you now tell the Syrians, they will appreciate wink
    3. tttttt
      tttttt 4 September 2013 10: 41 New
      15
      To begin with, according to the Constitution, Ukraine is a non-aligned country, and whether to join or not, and where to join, one should ask the people, by referendum, for any other decision is a crime against the Constitution and, accordingly, against the state.
      Yes and no need to sign for all the people. For example, if your social circle is buggers, this does not mean at all that such is the whole country.
    4. seller trucks
      seller trucks 4 September 2013 13: 11 New
      +5
      Quote: Cooper
      . Somehow it will be more civilized


      Yanukovych surrendered "your homeland to the Americans to hang out beautifully" (C)
    5. Egoza
      Egoza 4 September 2013 16: 25 New
      10
      Quote: Cooper
      Better in Euro. It will be more favorable there

      And just in Ukraine "civilly" who prevents to do? Do you need a nanny?
      "The hope that Europe will ennoble us is nothing more than an admission of our own inferiority. We cannot ourselves, but with the help of a European civilization club, maybe." (P. Tolochko)

      Quote: Cooper
      without any politics, and a pointer with whom to be friends and how to be friends.

      Lying! Change the constitution, and legalize pid-s! And many other requirements.
      “It is possible that after the signing of the Association Agreement, Ukraine will also receive its quota for accepting migrants from Muslim countries. According to it, it will not have any European Union rights, only obligations. After all, politically Ukraine is fully included in the sphere of EU interests.
      Interest in Ukraine is more mundane. The first and main goal of the West is to tear us away from Russia. This, according to Western ideologists, will guarantee the impossibility of reviving a new empire in the post-Soviet space, which would become a competitor to the empires of the US and the EU. The second goal is to expand the sales market for their products, as well as to obtain a significant reserve of labor. Partially this problem was solved by Europe after the admission of the Baltic states, Poland and the Balkan region. It is known how significant demographic losses they suffered after entering the EU. Remember how popular the plumber from Poland was in the Western media. Now, apparently, the finest hour for a plumber from Ukraine will come. "(P. Tolochko)
  6. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 4 September 2013 08: 50 New
    +3
    The photo before the article speaks for itself ... (who will stand in the rack and who will sit and give instructions))) Forward Ukraine to a "bright future"
    1. MG42
      MG42 4 September 2013 08: 58 New
      +5
      Quote: MIKHAN
      The photo before the article says it all

      No one argues about the photo, only the text does not quite fit in the photo further, with such success here is a photo of Sergei Ivanov and ex-NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer what can I comment on? the NATO flag is visible >> just a business meeting, there is infa about partnership with NATO, but we can talk about joining only in the case of Georgia >>
  7. I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 4 September 2013 09: 09 New
    +7
    "The citizens of the country understand that the country's accession to NATO will force them to participate in all operations of a sufficiently aggressive military bloc, including those carried out against the independent states of the world."

    What citizens of Ukraine are we talking about? Ukrainian always divided the country into eastern and western.

    "the presence of a Ukrainian bridgehead will allow NATO to keep at gunpoint not only Russian territory, but all countries, up to the coast of the Indian Ocean"

    The Ukrainian authorities are well aware of this, as if hinting to Russia, leave us (Ukraine) independence, provide us with everything we need for free, and then maybe Ukraine will not join NATO. They act like ..... from the North Caucasus.
    1. Kars
      Kars 4 September 2013 11: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: I am a Russian
      "the presence of a Ukrainian bridgehead will allow NATO to keep at gunpoint not only Russian territory, but all countries, up to the coast of the Indian Ocean"

      And the bridgehead in Turkey is LITTLE? In the Baltic states is LITTLE?)))) This is called a pull by the ears. And to control the coast of the Indian Ocean - Diego Rasia base is great)))

      And as for the tanks --- for starters, in Ukraine there are about 4000 of them, nobody was talking about those in active use, even in accusatory articles. Yes, and the proposal itself is more like a duck
      1. Nuar
        Nuar 4 September 2013 14: 32 New
        +5
        Quote: Kars
        And as for the tanks --- for starters, Ukraine has about 4000
        You’ll think about how unprecedented, nobody is interested in specific figures (for sure, journalists).

        And about the referendum - so yesterday, Tymoshenko scribbled a letter to the Nar-Deps with a proposal to put a political bolt on him. (Well, at the same time, Yanukovych dismissed 7 (seven) regional heads of the SBU from his posts. Without explanation, of course.)

        Democracy - it is like that.
      2. I am a Russian
        I am a Russian 4 September 2013 17: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        Is there a LITTLE bridgehead in Turkey?


        Turkey is not appropriate here. Article about Ukraine. At this rate, you will collect all the garbage from the Internet.

        littleis an adverb. Only at the beginning of a sentence is it capitalized.
        1. Kars
          Kars 4 September 2013 19: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: I am a Russian
          Turkey is not appropriate here. Article about Ukraine. T

          Of course, everything is inappropriate for you))))
          Quote: I am a Russian
          . At this rate, you will collect all the garbage from the Internet

          Which one?
          Quote: I am a Russian
          little is an adverb. Only at the beginning of a sentence is it capitalized.

          Really? Will you put me a deuce? And when everything is written in CAPITAL letters?
      3. Misantrop
        Misantrop 4 September 2013 18: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        A bridgehead in Turkey is small? In the Baltic states is small?))))
        The Ukrainian oligarchs have little money that they fight for each penny? But by any means the poorest of them is richer than you and I combined. So it is here. The USA was a little Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya at last? What to her now desperately Need in Syria and Iran?
        Quote: Kars
        this is called ear pull.

        This is really about the ears. Just not attracting donkeys for them, but donkeys sticking out from under the mask ... lol
        1. Kars
          Kars 4 September 2013 19: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Misantrop
          The Ukrainian oligarchs have little money that they fight for each penny?

          What is the connection?
          Quote: Misantrop
          So it is here. The USA was a little Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya at last?

          and what? And what about the hypothetical bases in Ukraine? At the same time, none of the countries listed was part of NATO, and it’s hard to threaten the Russian Federation from their territory.
          Quote: Misantrop
          . Just not attracting donkeys for them, but donkeys sticking out from under the mask ...

          What is the attraction? Do you already know how many tanks will be cut?
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 4 September 2013 19: 25 New
            +3
            Quote: Kars
            What is the connection?
            A single type of behavior, because the teachers were alone
            Quote: Kars
            Do you already know how many tanks will be cut?
            And what does this have to do with it? Or will the NATO base in Sevastopol not change the situation in the region instead of Russian nichrome? Say, won't they try to get in? And why, then, have they been closely targeting these objects for many years. They already had two routes from the port of Feodosia - to Kirovskoye and Verkhny Sadovoe. FUCK if they don't need anything there?
            At the same time, none of the listed countries was a member of NATO
            And countries such as Hungary, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria do not come to memory? Members of the ATS, by the way. Oh, how they swore to Gorbachev that not a single NATO soldier would be there ... And what, was there enough oaths for a long time?
            1. Kars
              Kars 4 September 2013 19: 29 New
              +1
              Quote: Misantrop
              A single type of behavior, because the teachers were alone

              Anyway, you write something incomprehensible.
              Quote: Misantrop
              And what does it have to do with it?

              As to what, I wrote about them precisely, and in an article about it it is written, and you quoted me about them precisely.

              Quote: Misantrop
              Say, do not try to fit?

              Let me simply say - If the United States needed a base in the Crimea, they would have got it.
              And I personally would not mind, subject to payment at the market price. What is the difference if the constitution is already violated by the presence of the base of the Russian Federation
              Quote: Misantrop
              They already had two routes from the port of Feodosia - to Kirovskoye and Verkhny Sadovoe. FUCK if they don't need anything there?

              And they don’t need this fuck, and what other routes.
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 4 September 2013 20: 02 New
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                And I personally would not mind, subject to payment at the market price. What is the difference if the constitution is already violated by the presence of the base of the Russian Federation

                And relatives there in a brothel? And then, after all, that military is sad without it. Naturally
                Quote: Kars
                subject to payment at market price

                Quote: Kars
                And they don’t need this fuck, and what other routes.
                You only know how to read your posts? It was THERE where they were torn. ZKP fleet and something else interesting. And they would have received even then if the people had not stood a wall under the gates of the port in Feodosia

                And what about NATO members from countries that were former ATS members. It seemed to me or suck-labeled and was not a sin to deceive? Are you sure that Yanukovych is not held for the same sucker?
                1. Kars
                  Kars 4 September 2013 20: 14 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  And relatives there in a brothel? And then, after all, that military is sad without it. Naturally

                  Do you know this from personal experience? Do you serve military personnel of the Black Sea Fleet of the RF? Or do they sit on bromine?
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  You only know how to read your posts? It was THERE where they were torn. ZKP fleet and something else interesting

                  It's just ridiculous. What for they need it?
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  And they would have received even then if the people had not stood a wall under the gates of the port in Feodosia

                  It would be necessary, a wall of a dozen old women would be torn.
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  And what about NATO members from countries that were former ATS members. I imagined it or

                  Maybe you need something.
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  are faithful that Yanukovych is not held for the same sucker?

                  I don’t understand what you’re writing about. I know what the Russian Federation holds, it’s the Kharkov agreements that have been shown. Moreover, the terms of the deal need to be revised. Ukraine buys less gas from the Russian Federation, therefore the discount is lower, it would be necessary in real money, at the market value of land to count.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 4 September 2013 20: 19 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Kars
                    Do you know this from personal experience?
                    From yours. Judging by the style of communication.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 4 September 2013 20: 31 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      From yours. Judging by the style of communication.

                      My style?
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      And relatives there in a brothel? And then, after all, that military is sad without it. Naturally

                      I don’t know what is with my style, but the experience is visible to you. Especially the Crimean, and there is the base of the Russian Federation, on which one hundred percent are military.
    2. skeptic
      skeptic 4 September 2013 11: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: I am a Russian
      leave us (Ukraine) independence, provide us with all necessary for free, and then,maybe, Ukraine will not join NATO.


      Fighting to a freebie, can lead to combustion in a nuclear apocalypse, tk. no one will look at "family" ties when the enemy's military structure is destroyed. And NATO is a rather aggressive bloc and far from being friendly to Russia. So the flag is in your hands, but first think about whether it is worth ...
      1. I am a Russian
        I am a Russian 4 September 2013 17: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: skeptic
        is it worth it ..


        yes ... skuptik ... is it worth writing about what is not. Take a closer look and see the sun in the sky ... well, or the moon.
  8. Pit
    Pit 4 September 2013 09: 13 New
    +4
    Also, according to some analysts, there is a real danger that anti-NATO sentiments in Ukraine can lead to the separation of many areas from the country and the creation of independent states, and, at best, lead to a loss of confidence in the ruling group of the majority of Ukrainians.

    It’s just not necessary that the government will be driven away and fair democracy will be introduced.
    Everything will happen as always, new people will come, they will sing a beautiful fairy tale about a good life with geyropa / Russia (underline as necessary), and when the will of the people shows itself and fixates on the beaten, these new people will again forget that they promised and will lead the people to the outskirts, in bright gay -paradise.
  9. roial
    roial 4 September 2013 09: 15 New
    -2
    However, the biggest and most unexpected blow for the Ukrainian army was NATO's proposal to send T-64 tanks for remelting. If we take into account that 686 tanks of which 600 are T-64 units are in service with the Ukrainian army, it becomes clear that, having carried out this initiative of the West, the Ukrainian army will lose almost the entire fleet of tanks in service.


    The author needs to closely monitor the ducks, not so long ago there was a rumor that the amers proposed for the disposal of 2000 T-64 tanks stored at STORAGE for $ 1 million, there was no talk about those in service.
    Disposal of the tank costs 3 tys.dol. you can calculate how much they can be disposed of by 1 million. So the deflection is not protected.

    Secondly, Ukraine is an OUTBlock state, and does not seek entry into NATO.

    Zadolbal already this author kindling another srach, into his furnace.
    1. Anphy
      Anphy 4 September 2013 09: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: roial
      Ukraine is an OUT BLOCK state, and does not seek entry into NATO.

      Read the US-Ukraine Strategic Partnership Charter.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 4 September 2013 21: 04 New
        +3
        Quote: Anphy
        Read the US-Ukraine Strategic Partnership Charter.

        Olo-lo! laughing
        "Ukrainian Foreign Minister Volodymyr Ohryzko and US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice signed the Charter on Strategic Partnership between Ukraine and the United States of America." 20.12.2008 (presented from 2005 to 2010 - YUSHCHENKO!)
        "Yanukovych signed a law on the non-aligned status of Ukraine" July 15 2010 (presented on February 25, 2010 ... Yanukovych)
        Sorry, my dear, but it was a bunch in the air ...
        P.S. Incidentally, I read the charter ... like such eg. quote (item):
        "4. Confirm the importance of security guarantees that are secured in Tristorone President of the United States, the Russian Federation and the Ukrainian Federation 14 September 1994, Budapest Memorandum about the guarantee of security at the link with Ukraine's membership prior to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons from 5th December 1994. "
        Read these 2 documents at your leisure ... there were also TU-22 ... and a lot of things that they like to "forget" about
        P.P.S. Sorya for the Ukrainian. I didn’t find a quote in Russian ... (
  10. Debryansk
    Debryansk 4 September 2013 09: 19 New
    0
    Everyone wants to throw Russia
  11. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 4 September 2013 09: 33 New
    +2
    Quote: Cooper
    Even too lazy to comment on the duck about the cut T64, and even more so for a whole million. Again, it is not worth talking about the "majority" who are against NATO and the European Union, this is speculation, nothing more. It would be correct to write about NATO that nobody cares. Or the European Union or the Customs Union, nevertheless, Better in the Euro. Somehow it will be more civilized there, and that is nice without any politics, and pointers with whom to be friends and how to be friends.

    Yes, they will say it once and will not repeat it the second time! wassat
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 4 September 2013 16: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: Kovrovsky
      Yes, they will say it once and will not repeat it the second time!

      They will send their Baskaks to us, as once the Mongols am
  12. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 4 September 2013 09: 40 New
    +2
    If only poor Ukraine didn’t break from such efforts, w @ pu (sorry for my French).
  13. ded_73
    ded_73 4 September 2013 09: 52 New
    15
    Touched - you are an unscrupulous compiler! The purpose of these distortions is to inflate anti-Ukrainian sentiments on the site. You know very well that after the failure of Yushchenko’s policy in 2008 in Bucharest about Ukraine getting a “candidate” status, cooperation with NATO is at the same level as it was ten years ago. More declarations than actions. No, you allow yourself statements of "cosmic" scale: "Purely hypothetically, Ukraine’s accession to NATO may allow ...." What for? Once again give a boost to foaming in the comments.
    The thesis of the opus does not stand up to criticism - “However, the biggest and most unexpected blow for the Ukrainian army was the proposal of NATO to send T-64 tanks for remelting.” What, the decision was made to dispose of them? What kind of blow are we talking about? Or the worse, the better?
    In doing so, rely on sites with the domain "ru", in this case, not the most objective resource.
    As for unscrupulousness, it is easily provable. Unfortunately, the site administration did not consider it necessary to publish my material on the monuments to Soviet partisans in the city of Yaremche, which were destroyed by Ukrainian nationalists with your "easy" hands, as you told in your article, "Who was prevented by the monuments to Soviet partisans?" (http://topwar.ru/32087-komu-pomeshali-pamyatniki-sovetskim-partizanam.html). Release Date - August 19, 2013. This news gathered a hundred and forty-four reviews in which the rightly indignant forum users expressed their opinions. At the same time, you referred to a number of information resources, both Ukrainian and Russian.
    At the same time, simple manipulations with search engines as popular as Yandex would give you an answer to your rhetorical question. Already on August 7, materials and photos were posted stating that all this was a lie. What is said by the screen of the search engine sheet.
    Lazy to check? Hardly. "Rotten" is always more interesting. And it already smacks of provocation.
    1. Fastblast
      Fastblast 4 September 2013 12: 32 New
      +4
      Grandfather, thank you!

      ps the site is really attended by provocateurs who knowingly or unconsciously engage in incitement.
  14. USNik
    USNik 4 September 2013 09: 54 New
    +7
    Quote: Orel
    If Ukraine nevertheless chooses an association with the EU ...
    1. NEMO
      NEMO 4 September 2013 19: 03 New
      -2
      Judging by your photo commentary, Ukraine has one final, with any choice. In my opinion, not quite a good example IMHO
      1. Stamp
        Stamp 4 September 2013 20: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: NEMO
        Ukraine has one final, with any choice.

        It was necessary to climb into one chair more comfortable and sit and stand as here, and not balance 22 years of independence. On the other hand, if you draw pessimistically that there is no way out, the stool can be used differently.


        The second France did not work out as they dreamed in the early 90's. But of course you should not despair.
      2. NEMO
        NEMO 10 September 2013 17: 29 New
        0
        Quote: NEMO
        Judging by your photo commentary, Ukraine has one final, with any choice. In my opinion, not quite a good example IMHO

        I do not understand what the cons ?? Look at the photo and try to remove one of the two chairs. What will be the result ??? My comment concerns only photosand not the situation as a whole !!!
  15. Aeneas
    Aeneas 4 September 2013 09: 56 New
    +7
    Russia is also "scrapping" Tu-22 M, so we will not give pictures from the base-sludge of "killed" Carcasses in the Far East. Although, it was still possible to keep several of these bombers for another ten, maximum, years. Due to "cannibalism" for spare parts and specialists undergoing service. But all the same, by the modern time period, these carcasses would have "run out". As for the Tu-160, Kuchma suggested changing them for gas. We, in Ukraine, had such a figure, Bakai, and he was engaged in exchange not without his own gesheft (now he lives and works in Russia). Well, then Russia was not yet so "packed" with oil and gas dollars, and wanted to repay the debts not only with bombers, but also with paper dead ameroprezes, and therefore not all were taken (exchanged) ... Well, that's how it is. And small arms and MANPADS from Ukraine are sold to the United States and Israel with hundreds of thousands of barrels and hundreds of missiles. Essesno, from warehouses of the times of the Union.
  16. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 4 September 2013 10: 03 New
    +3
    The prosperity of the country depends on the level of independence of the ruling elite. We cannot build the welfare of the state according to the formula: we bargain who will give more. Ukrainians must decide for themselves with whom to go to the future. Everyone understands that people's well-being is built on a developed economy. Is it possible to talk about the success of the economy if millions of people leave to work?
  17. vkrav
    vkrav 4 September 2013 10: 13 New
    +4
    Tu-160

    And the Ross also smashed the Tu160 with construction "women" and forced the pilots to watch?
    A small-arms and MANPADS from Ukraine are sold to the United States and Israel by hundreds of thousands of barrels and hundreds of missiles.

    ... from the Soviet stocks. The Americans are the largest buyer of the "collection" shooters. Only last year alone they sold 90000 rifles, pistols and revolvers in Yusu. And hundreds of MANPADS and PRTURS are bought to test their equipment and develop countermeasures.
  18. Anphy
    Anphy 4 September 2013 10: 23 New
    +5
    My daughter is studying at the university and just yesterday they had a discussion about whether Ukraine should join Eurocloaca. I asked what the results of the discussion were. So, the majority are in favor. And this, please, take into account, in the Crimea! Propaganda works, the school teaches, highlighting the negative aspects of relations with Russia. All sorts of famines, genocides, occupations ... It slowly, drop by drop puts the thought into young heads - "Russia is the enemy." So everything is going according to plan and in 20 years Russia will have no supporters in Ukraine at all. And modern Russia does not carry out any ideological work in Ukraine at all. So these are such bleak things, dear Russians.
    1. Glory333
      Glory333 4 September 2013 10: 39 New
      11
      Yes, rabid anti-Russian propaganda is constantly being conducted on all TV channels, while they never say anything bad about the Geyropu in a chronic crisis - only good. For example, reports from the Baltic countries are often shown - how good it is, how successfully they freed themselves from Russia - and this is against the background of empty streets where there are few people and cars against the background of empty shops and markets where there are no buyers. No one recalls that 1/3 of the inhabitants of Latvia left the country and real unemployment there is about 50%.
      1. Kars
        Kars 4 September 2013 11: 10 New
        +4
        Quote: Glory333
        Yes, all the TV channels are constantly conducting frantic anti-Russian propaganda

        And can you give some examples? Have you debugged it on YouTube? And could it really be a lie if there was negative news?
      2. TRAFFIC
        TRAFFIC 4 September 2013 11: 11 New
        +2
        frantic anti-Russian propaganda is continuously conducted on all TV channels
        , of course, of course, I don’t notice something, but give examples, how many on the central channels of news about Russia and how many of them
        anti-Russian propaganda
        1. Glory333
          Glory333 4 September 2013 20: 29 New
          +1
          Fooling around?
          All the news tells in detail how Russia puts pressure on Ukraine, introduces economic sanctions, Tuzla is remembered, gas wars, special attention is paid to a sunken boat with Ukrainian fishermen - no one recalls that Ukrainian border guards in similar cases opened fire on Turkish violating fishermen to kill. "Russia is the enemy" is the leitmotif of all Ukrainian news on all channels without exception.
          About the Sodomite Geyropa - how about the deceased or good or nothing - there is nothing to argue?
          1. Kars
            Kars 4 September 2013 20: 33 New
            +3
            Quote: Glory333
            All the news tells in detail how Russia puts pressure on Ukraine, imposes economic sanctions, recalls Tuzla, gas wars, and pays special attention to the sunken boat with Ukrainian fishermen - no one recalls that Ukrainian border guards in similar cases opened fire on Turkish fishermen-violators

            Is this all wrong? And the Turkish fishermen opened fire in the Sea of ​​Azov? Or in black where there is a delimited border.
            1. Glory333
              Glory333 4 September 2013 21: 02 New
              +2
              True or false is a controversial issue, it is important that the news has a clear anti-Russian orientation, that is, anti-Russian propaganda is being conducted - which I immediately said.
              What is the difference in which sea? Border guards can apply any measures to violators up to the fire to defeat, fanning this case with complete silence of the similar actions of Ukrainian border guards is a vivid example of propaganda.
              1. Kars
                Kars 4 September 2013 21: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: Glory333
                True or false is a controversial issue, it is important that the news has a clear anti-Russian orientation, that is, anti-Russian propaganda is being conducted - which I immediately said.

                Truth cannot be propaganda.

                As for the EU, the news shows about unemployment in Greece and about the unrest in Romania.
                Quote: Glory333
                Border guards can apply any measures to violators, including fire to defeat,

                And what did the fishermen in the Sea of ​​Azov violate? Is there a border there?
                Quote: Glory333
                Ukrainian border guards have a vivid example of propaganda.

                I saw it strange in the news, it was shown when they shot at the Turks in the Black Sea, who hid it? Only in what year was it? Or recently?

                It looks like you are someone zombies.
                1. Glory333
                  Glory333 4 September 2013 21: 20 New
                  +4
                  They say very little and reluctantly about the crisis in Greece, they simply showed demonstrations about Romania without saying a word about the policy of social genocide (as the Romanians themselves say) of the EU in Romania.
                  About the Turks in the news did not show anything, I read on the Internet.
                  A controversial question - it means it can be both true and false, I say that everything is a lie - prove the opposite.
                  It’s you who are zombified once you pull Ukraine into the economically collapsing Sodom and Gomoru called the European Union.
                  Make your forecast, for example, what level of unemployment will be in Ukraine 10 years after accession (or association) with the EU - what is the average salary?
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 4 September 2013 21: 31 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Glory333
                    Very little and reluctantly talk about the crisis in Greece

                    Constantly. Like about the crisis in Spain. The other day there was a program with unemployment, and the story that 50% of youth have no work.
                    Quote: Glory333
                    ro Romania just showed demonstrations without saying a word about the policy of social genocide (as the Romanians themselves say) conducted by the EU in Romania.

                    Do you communicate so closely with Romanians?
                    Quote: Glory333
                    About the Turks in the news did not show anything, I read on the Internet.
                    What did you read on the Internet about what year? And I personally saw in the news that they just told me how the Turks beat the katran. And that was in the 2005-6 year.

                    Quote: Glory333
                    A controversial question - it means it can be both true and false, I say that everything is a lie - prove the opposite.
                    Why do I need this? Say what you want. Facts will still remain. And the trade war, and pressure, and the price of gas.

                    Quote: Glory333
                    It’s you who are zombified once you pull Ukraine into the economically collapsing Sodom and Gomoru called the European Union.

                    Are you watching a sexually preoccupied 7 anti-movement activist? Probably the Russian Federation with the TS just fantasizes a free dough, and there are no pi..sts there)))
                    Quote: Glory333
                    Make your forecast, for example, what level of unemployment will be in Ukraine 10 years after accession (or association) with the EU - what is the average salary?

                    After the association, they will be no worse than they are now, and making predictions is an ungrateful undertaking.
                    1. Glory333
                      Glory333 4 September 2013 21: 53 New
                      +3
                      Are you a zombie gay activist? Therefore, so drawn to the EU?
                      The economy will collapse and unemployment in Ukraine will rise sharply, something like in the Baltic countries, the average salary for those who still do not lose their jobs will be miserable 200-300 dollars at European prices - in the EU we will have an African standard of living, that’s where the oligarchs like you look like bloodsuckers dragging Ukraine. In Russia, for comparison, in 10 years, the average salary will be about $ 2000 with almost zero unemployment.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 4 September 2013 22: 12 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Glory333
                        Ok you zombie gay activist

                        I? No, I just relate to this in parallel. A person must have freedom.
                        Quote: Glory333
                        Therefore, so drawn to the EU?

                        There is more than half a billion people in the market, and not the last of the Holodrans.
                        Quote: Glory333
                        The economy will collapse and unemployment in Ukraine will rise sharply, approximately like in the Baltic countries, the average salary for those who will not lose their jobs will be beggarly 200-300 dollars at European prices - in the EU we will have an African standard of living,

                        Who told you this? Glazyev? Or did you calculate it yourself? Do you have economic education 7 have access to statistics?

                        Quote: Glory333
                        For comparison, in 10 years, the average salary will be around 2000 dollars with almost zero unemployment.

                        Blessed is he who believes. And where do we go to the Russian Federation? Can it be there, only then will it be even worse than in Africa? Can you prove the opposite?
                      2. Glory333
                        Glory333 4 September 2013 22: 22 New
                        +5
                        Yes, 500 million people — 50 million unemployed, 50 million Africans (if there isn’t such a figure, then it will definitely be there in 10 years), debts now amount to tens of trillions of dollars, the economy is degrading, living standards are falling dramatically, unemployment is growing - what a pit for us ?
                        We lived with Russia in the same state for a thousand years, we speak the same language, everyone has relatives there - and where do we come from Russia? “What planet are you from?”

                        According to current trends and having before the eyes the deplorable experience of our former EU countries, it is easy to make forecasts.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 5 September 2013 11: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Glory333
                        Yes, 500 million people - 50 million unemployed, 50 million Africans (if there isn’t such a figure, it will definitely be in 10 years),

                        Anyway, more than in the Russian Federation.
                        Quote: Glory333
                        debts now tens of trillions of dollars

                        Well, the Russian Federation is also increasing government debt.
                        Quote: Glory333
                        living standards are falling dramatically, unemployment is rising - what for do we have such a garbage pit?

                        Well, our level is still not up to their degradation,
                        Quote: Glory333
                        We lived with Russia in the same state for a thousand years, we speak the same language, everyone has relatives there - and where do we come from Russia? “What planet are you from?”

                        From the planet Earth, the third from the Sun. And where do we go to Russia? Do you want to be a parasite? Sucking on to the RF-oil budget? And by the way, is it so bad in Europe who will buy the EEF energy sources?
                        Quote: Glory333
                        Based on current trends and having before the eyes the deplorable experience of our former EU countries, it is easy to make forecasts

                        Not so deplorable
  • biglow
    biglow 4 September 2013 11: 36 New
    +2
    Quote: Anphy
    My daughter is studying at the university and just yesterday they had a discussion about whether Ukraine should join Eurocloaca. I asked what the results of the discussion were. So, the majority are in favor. And this, please, take into account, in the Crimea! Propaganda works, the school teaches, highlighting the negative aspects of relations with Russia. All sorts of famines, genocides, occupations ... It slowly, drop by drop puts the thought into young heads - "Russia is the enemy." So everything is going according to plan and in 20 years Russia will have no supporters in Ukraine at all. And modern Russia does not carry out any ideological work in Ukraine at all. So these are such bleak things, dear Russians.

    children have always been idealists, in Sevastopol completely different moods among young people.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 4 September 2013 13: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: biglow
      in Sevastopol, completely different moods among young people.

      Alas, not at all. And every year less and less.
      "UPA - Heroes!", "Crimea - Ukraine!" - guests from Lviv painted a monument in the center of Sevastopol

      http://ikrim.net/2013/0903/034992.html
      A few years ago, legs like that would be pulled immediately. And now - calmly rolled ... request
  • Led1989
    Led1989 4 September 2013 12: 20 New
    +7
    I am a resident of Odessa, and I understand you. But fortunately we have several regional channels that hang without anti-Russian propaganda, and illuminate the other side of the EU.

    According to my feelings, the fate of Ukraine will be decided this winter. I understand the position of Russia in principle, Putin does not want to intervene until the association is signed, what will happen after that I don’t know, but I’m sure that he already has a clear plan of action for any turns in (on) Ukraine. Why sure? Because lately I have not seen his miscalculations in geopolitics.
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 4 September 2013 13: 21 New
    +3
    Quote: Anphy
    modern Russia does not carry out any ideological work in Ukraine at all.

    The well-known writer Alexander Bushkov recently released, in my opinion, a good book on this topic. "The Ship of Fools or A Brief History of Independence". http://flibusta.net/b/328568
    So even on "Flibust" people bark about her lol
    1. Anphy
      Anphy 4 September 2013 13: 36 New
      +4
      Book, book. The book is good. They just don’t read books right now. So it is unlikely that books can have an edge over TV, from the screens of which daily slop flows. Plus there is also a school, where they also create the necessary bias in thinking.
  • I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 4 September 2013 21: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Anphy
    It slowly, drop by drop puts the thought into young heads - "Russia is an enemy"


    Advertising, the media plays a leading role in educating young people in Ukraine? Are parents powerless?

    ... and again from the lips of a Ukrainian - "I'm not guilty, he came himself!"
  • vkrav
    vkrav 4 September 2013 10: 42 New
    +1
    So, the majority are in favor

    So, I want everything, immediately and for free! And in a bright corporate packaging. And then what to pay for - they are not stupidly interested.
  • Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 4 September 2013 10: 45 New
    +6
    For the sake of money and to save their own skins, the Ukrainian "elite" can do anything! The likelihood of a military conflict confuses anyone! The policy of opposing Ukraine to Russia is becoming the norm!
  • denson06
    denson06 4 September 2013 10: 55 New
    +6
    The author correctly concluded everything .. they are not at all interested in the prosperous Ukraine, its army .. they need territory, bases, a berth for the fleet and biological laboratories ..
    I am afraid that the people will not be able to rectify the situation already .. there all power has long been "fed" from outside .. then there will be Klitschko .. the United States has everything according to plan ..
    Horseradish .. your picture .. And it’s okay Poland or Turkey, but I know everything in Ukraine .. we think the same way .. there are normal people who (oh, I’m sure of this) would better live from these mergers .
  • ROA
    ROA 4 September 2013 11: 29 New
    -1
    Do not join Ukraine in NATO, because they do not need nafig.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 4 September 2013 13: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: ROA
      Do not join Ukraine in NATO, because they do not need nafig.

      Yes, yes. But the infrastructure within walking distance from the borders of the Russian Federation will not be superfluous. The same ZPK Black Sea Fleet, with protection against a nuclear strike, on which they have licked for a long time ... If they get in there, picking them out from there is far from an easy task
  • kadet54
    kadet54 4 September 2013 11: 35 New
    +6
    Quote: Cooper
    It’s better in Euro. It will be more civilized there, and that’s nice without any politics, and a pointer with whom to make friends and how to make friends.

    Holy naivety ....
  • knn54
    knn54 4 September 2013 11: 35 New
    +8
    The EU is now biting its elbow - UK, France, Germany do not want to give ~ half the budget of Greece, Portugal, Spain, Bulgaria ... And then there is the impoverished Ukraine. Turkey has been standing at the door for 20 years, but what's the point?
    As for the aspirations of the WRONG government, this suggests that she, like the opposition, has ONE masters.
    And unlike people, they have in their heads the western and eastern hemispheres.
    PS Interestingly, the RF proposes a trade and economic union, and the West is the supremacy of European laws and various acts over the Constitution and Laws of Ukraine, dictate tariffs, ruin the military-industrial complex, etc.
    PPS GROWING economies in Asia, not Europe!
    1. tttttt
      tttttt 4 September 2013 11: 54 New
      +6
      Yes, calm down you all, there will be no fuck any Europe after 2015 laughing so there’s nowhere to enter hi Who threw a boot on the control panel?
  • kadet54
    kadet54 4 September 2013 11: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: ded_73
    At the same time, simple manipulations with search engines as popular as Yandex would give you an answer to your rhetorical question. Already on August 7, materials and photos were posted stating that all this was a lie. What is said by the screen of the search engine sheet.
    Lazy to check? Hardly. "Rotten" is always more interesting. And it already smacks of provocation.

    Some Ukrainian television channels reported that this still happened.
    1. ded_73
      ded_73 4 September 2013 12: 18 New
      +3
      I personally shot on 24.08.
    2. ded_73
      ded_73 4 September 2013 12: 20 New
      +3
      The board itself. Safe and sound. I shot it myself on 24.08. As well as a number of monuments to partisans. All in very good condition. It's not about where and what they say. And the fact is that if you act as an author, then you must responsibly approach the material. Moreover, there is an opportunity for verification without leaving home. And if you don’t do this, then it’s rumors and profanity, and you’re a provocateur.
  • white_f
    white_f 4 September 2013 12: 15 New
    +1
    Kiev, under pressure from the Europeans and the United States, took part in the Partnership for Peace program. As a result of its implementation, Ukraine destroyed Tu-22 missile-bombers (by the way, Russia modernized Tu-22, leaving them in service). Under the "Nunn-Lugar" program, Ukraine scrapped Tu-160 "White Swan" aircraft. The same fate befell the Ukrainian 9K72 missile systems, small arms and MANPADS. And it all happened for US money

    It seems to me that I saw somewhere, something like that ...
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 4 September 2013 13: 31 New
      +1
      Only not Tu-22, but Tu-22M3. This is a completely different plane with completely different capabilities. Not even outwardly similar
  • Alligator_S
    Alligator_S 4 September 2013 12: 21 New
    +5
    We must try to use our reason and be aware that Ukraine will never become a full member of the EU. Ordinary people will be the first to suffer from these European integration games, but this is the main goal of both the West and their Ukrainian vassals - to reduce the population of Uraina as much as possible. In addition, the EU is ready to lure us like a donkey with a carrot in order to maximally remove Ukraine from integration into the CU. They very well calculated that this integration will give both Ukraine and the CU members an additional impetus for development in the current stagnation of the EU economy. In addition, a further escalation of tension in the Middle East (Syria, Iran, Egypt, etc.), and America’s thirst to extinguish this Middle East fire with kerosene, will lead to the fact that energy prices will rise by no less than 1,5-2 times that will further exacerbate the problems of the EU and improve the situation in the CU. After all these European integration trials, Ukraine, hungry, cold, in European outfits, will eventually appear to Russia as a lost prodigal son (or daughter). Do not drive us then. Accept, forgive and feed ...
  • Net
    Net 4 September 2013 12: 27 New
    +1
    The territory called Ukraine must be divided. This is the only solution that will allow all adherents to enter anywhere, even into the League of Sexual Reforms. As a Crimean, I’m not at all sorry to lose Western Ukraine. Yes, in general, everything except the Crimea. Of course, according to merit, it would be better to give Zapadenshchina to the Poles, oh then they will recall everything to the local banderlogs. There are Russians there too, and this issue must be resolved. There is no other way out comrades.
    1. Kars
      Kars 4 September 2013 12: 32 New
      +5
      Quote: Netto
      The territory called Ukraine must be divided.

      May I take Zaporizhzhya region for myself?
      1. Fastblast
        Fastblast 4 September 2013 12: 42 New
        0
        But in principle, I’ll have enough of Kiev lol

        ps and for the people offering driban, I think there’s enough room for 3 by 4! wink
        1. Current 72
          Current 72 4 September 2013 17: 43 New
          +1
          12 squares, but 2 squares is enough for them!
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 4 September 2013 13: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        May I take Zaporizhzhya region for myself?
        Pick up is not difficult. Hold is much harder. And if you hold without looting ... what
        1. Kars
          Kars 4 September 2013 13: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Misantrop
          Pick up is not difficult.

          It would be easy - I would have taken it a long time ago.

          Quote: Misantrop
          And if you hold without looting.

          How am I going to rob YOURSELF?
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 4 September 2013 14: 02 New
            +4
            Quote: Kars
            How am I going to rob YOURSELF?

            Normally. How Crimea has been robbed for 20 for years in a row. Or is it not your own? what
            1. Kars
              Kars 4 September 2013 14: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: Misantrop
              Normally. How Crimea has been robbed for 20 for years in a row. Or is it not your own?

              Crimea - not mine, didn’t take it. And who has been robbing? In Dzhankoy, how many years have we been working in order. And what does robbery mean?
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 4 September 2013 14: 26 New
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                And what does robbery mean?
                Robbery is understood. Even in the dashing 90s, the Veteran sanatorium managed to survive. State dacha number 1 in Soviet times. Although it was then under the "Shoes", but neither the interior of the buildings, nor the park (not inferior to the GNBS either in size or in the number of plant species) were not touched. But now they are trying to bankrupt it and sell it for a penny. Naturally - not to the side. The Karadag reserve is a unique place. Since 1980, even excursions only from the ship are allowed there. And the current authorities are going to make a quarry there, to extract construction crushed stone (despite the fact that this crushed stone from neighboring quarries is like mud). Mount Klementyeva in Planerskoye is one of two unique places on the planet for gliding. Even the Germans in the Second World War categorically did not allow any trenches or other structures to be built there. But the current household hamster almost sold it all for summer cottages and vegetable gardens. The famous "Golden Beach" between Feodosia and Primorsky is adjoined by two lakes with medicinal mud, which used to be no worse than the famous Saki. Now from all the surrounding villages, fecal effluents are poured there at night, cars are moving in a column, there is nothing to breathe in the area (50 m to the beach) ... And the like - at EVERY step, there is not enough space at the forum to list everything. It seems that the notion of "tomorrow" is generally not conceivable to the current authorities. They need to fill their pockets TODAY, no one thinks about the consequences.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 4 September 2013 15: 39 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Atoms are now trying to bankrupt him and sell it for a penny.

                  Well, this is far from robbery, do you think this is only in Ukraine and the Crimea? These are generally accepted business methods.
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  And like that - at EVERY step

                  Again, this is not a robbery, connect the public, go to pickets. And this, by the way, is the problem of LOCAL self-government, you have to hand the cards.

                  It would be my controlled territory, I would have thought.
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Now, from all surrounding villages, feces are drained there at night

                  Do people come from Kiev to do this?
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 4 September 2013 19: 07 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Kars
                    Again, this is not a robbery, connect the public, go to pickets. And this, by the way, is the problem of LOCAL self-government.
                    Because of this, the Feodosiya-Kerch highway was blocked by pickets more than 10 times this summer. Do you think they managed to stand for a long time? Do you think the picketers dispersed themselves or the authorities "helped"? You are not far from here, have you heard of at least one? And in the media you will not find a WORD on this topic. Accident? What about the two mayors of the cities (Simeiz and Feodosia), who were shot this year? This is not counting the three planted. It looks like they shot those on whom they could not promptly dig up compromising evidence ...
                    Quote: Kars
                    Do people come from Kiev to do this?
                    No, not all from Kiev. Previously, from Dnepropetrovsk, the clan steered everything here, and now Odessa (Yanukovych Jr.) is becoming more and more. And Kiev solves more global issues. Type of percentage of the return of taxes collected on the peninsula. It is probably no secret that they are paid at the location of the head office, and they are almost all in Kiev. Which of the owners refused, those have already been buried
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 4 September 2013 19: 15 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      You are not far from here, have you heard about one?

                      I don’t pay attention to this. I have enough local problems.
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      What about the two mayors of cities (Simeiz and Theodosius) who were shot this year?

                      I heard. Naturally, the measures were angels. They didn’t steal anything, etc.
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      then - not counting the three planted. It seems that they shot those on whom they could not quickly dig up dirt ..

                      Well, they planted it, it happens, about compromising evidence - that you can always dig it. And by the way, such methods are quite common in the Russian Federation, and not the EU.
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      No, not all from Kiev. Previously from Dnepropetrovsk

                      Drain sewage into the lake?
                      1. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 4 September 2013 19: 38 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        such methods are quite common in the Russian Federation
                        Now SUCH methods are common HERE. But Europeans here will not run to catch criminals under the authorities, they have enough of their own. So it’s not worth hoping that in this regard the situation will change a lot, you just have to lean against Europe
                        Quote: Kars
                        Drain sewage into the lake?
                        Do special vehicles with special equipment belong to whom, local plumber? Or at least one car will leave the park without a team? SUCH money is spinning there, that the locals haven’t had a long way there ...
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 4 September 2013 19: 47 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        So it’s not worth hoping that in this regard the situation will change a lot, you just have to lean against Europe

                        all the same, the chances are great.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Do special vehicles with special equipment belong to whom, local plumber?

                        strange - it began
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        th. Now, from all surrounding villages, fecal effluents are drained there at night

                        now already such money - is it from the drain of cesspools or what?
                      3. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 4 September 2013 20: 09 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Is it from a drain of cesspools or something?
                        Well, do not pretend to be a naive child. Around every village nowadays it is impossible to take a break from sanatoriums, boarding houses and rest houses. Small, private. None of them are connected to sewage and wastewater systems. And vacationers like to eat deliciously and ... (guess or further explain?). And also they like to swim. And where to put the drains?
                        It is no coincidence that this problem has emerged just now. Past developments were provided to all in this regard.
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 4 September 2013 20: 17 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Well, do not pretend to be a naive child. Around every village

                        You started about the villages. And as for the sewage treatment plants, this is also a matter of local self-government.
                      5. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 4 September 2013 20: 21 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        About the village you started.

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Around every village nowadays it is impossible to take a break from sanatoriums, boarding houses and rest houses. Small, private. None of them are connected to sewage and wastewater systems. And vacationers like to eat deliciously and ... (guess or further explain?). And also they like to swim. And where to put the drains?
                        It is no coincidence that this problem has emerged just now. Past developments were provided to all in this regard.

                        Well, read before picking the answer. AT LEAST ONCE. Or what the fuck should I write to leave the last word for myself? The village council has neither excess treatment facilities nor money for them.
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 4 September 2013 20: 29 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Well read before picking the answer

                        Really?
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        AT LEAST ONCE.

                        I can two times
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        now from all surrounding villages fecal effluents are poured there at night, cars go in columns

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        The village council has neither excess treatment facilities nor money for them.
                        Let them take from the sanatoriums.
                      7. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 4 September 2013 21: 02 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        I can two times
                        It seems that this is already a diagnosis. If you haven’t banned Google, I recommend opening the map of Crimea. Between Feodosia and Primorsky runs the coastal route. On a panorama made a year and a half ago - a magnificent view of the Golden Beach. In real life there are now on both sides of the road - blank fences and 3-5-story buildings. The access to the beach remained only in front of the Seaside, just opposite these lakes. On the map, all this splendor is the village of Beregovoye. That's just the head of the village council there and the threshold will not be allowed, not those owners. A similar picture now is along the entire southeast coast. I recommend to estimate what means are needed for such land allocation and construction in such terms. If economic education, it seems, is available. And what happens to those who try to take money from the owners of this level (unless, of course, you yourself belong to the same circle)
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 4 September 2013 21: 15 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        It looks like this is already a diagnosis.

                        Do you disown your words?
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Now, from all surrounding villages, fecal effluents are poured there at night, cars go in columns

                        Didn't you write?
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        And what happens to those who try to take money from the owners of this level (unless, of course, you yourself belong to the same circle)

                        Well, write to the prosecutor’s office, and you can take money there, you just have to think with your head. Do you think the owners need an environmental disaster not far from their investments? Maybe the village head has already made money?
  • Current 72
    Current 72 4 September 2013 17: 41 New
    +1
    And I’ll take Chernihiv, I was born in Chernihiv!
  • official
    official 5 September 2013 00: 50 New
    0
    'EEEE, don't you forget to share?
  • Oleg Kharkov
    Oleg Kharkov 4 September 2013 22: 11 New
    +2
    Already got the dividers. Already the USSR was stripped, enough, shared.
  • nnz226
    nnz226 4 September 2013 12: 38 New
    +2
    The fate of the territories that sought to become a buffer between Russia and Geyropa is usually sad. Remember Poland in the 18th and 20th centuries, and the spratniks were quickly brought to zero in 1940. To vote about the changed times and tolerance is stupid, because the world is heading towards the version of the 30s of the 20th century on the principle of Tabaka's jackal: "Every man for himself!" Fortunately, there is no Aloizych, otherwise it would have been "fun". But geyropa can give birth to something similar, in the fight against "come in large numbers". There are already examples at the household level in Germany, and Le Pen in France may become the new Jeanne dArc. It’s like a man in the street the crisis and "new tolerant trends" will get. Is Ukraine Eager to Become a Buffer Territory? Mmmmmm ....
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Majordok
    Majordok 4 September 2013 12: 55 New
    +1
    Pennies! Oh love pennies!
  • Algor73
    Algor73 4 September 2013 13: 04 New
    +1
    As always, there is a struggle for Ukraine. Everyone needs a territory - both Europe and Russia. To be honest, giving preference to Russia or Europe is scary. It’s more familiar with Russia, it’s calmer with Europe. If Europe is so bad, why do children of the entire Russian elite live in Europe (America)? The same daughters of Putin (http://navopros.ru/znamenitosti/gde-zhivut-docheri-putina), I'm not talking about artists, etc. But if without sarcasm, then Ukraine itself will remain with its problems, and it itself will have to climb forward. Here many write about anti-Russian advertising in the media. Partially it is. But this is not advertising, but a statement of fact - Putin is doing everything to Ukraine crawling to his knees. But are such methods invited to be friends? The Union will not be returned. Lukashenko increasingly looks to the West, so not everything is as smooth in business as on paper. You can scream, but Russia, for the most part, makes anti-advertising for itself (trade, gas wars, etc.). Europe does not need us, Ukraine will never be admitted to the EU, historically, we and Russia are on the way. In my heart, I am for the reunification of our peoples. But at the same time, something is alarming - the world is no longer the same.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 4 September 2013 15: 13 New
      +4
      Quote: Algor73
      If Europe is so bad, why do children of the entire Russian elite live in Europe (America)?
      And how many of these children have an annual income of the level of the average citizen of the Russian Federation or Ukraine? Are there any of those below them? Well, the rich is good where his wallet will not be taken away. It’s not smart to stay in a country that you robbed for years in the most criminally punishable ways ... So they are trying to drag families to catch on ... request
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 4 September 2013 13: 37 New
    +2
    Maybe someone from Ukraine will tell you what Ukraine benefits from NATO? Well, they’ll aim at your cities for a couple of nuclear missiles, okay? Well, the Ukrainian army will be listed as enemies, okay? Well, the Ukrainian army will be cannon fodder for the United States, okay? meaning? Americans, like the late Roman Empire, already have a Georgian legion, have a Polish one, have an Estonian one, they are already being slaughtered in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    1. Kars
      Kars 4 September 2013 13: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Maybe someone from Ukraine will say what is the benefit of Ukraine from NATO?

      To begin with, while Ukraine is not joining NATO.
      Quote: Standard Oil
      will target a couple of nuclear missiles at your cities, okay?

      Secondly, right now there are no targeted missiles, under which treaty this practice is precocious.

      Thirdly, Ukraine is too close to the Russian Federation, and not all missiles will be aimed at it. This is not to mention that radioactive contamination will certainly go in the direction of the Russian Federation. Yes, and missiles are not so many unlike targets more important than the territory of Ukraine.
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Well, the Ukrainian army will be listed as enemies, okay?

      Now is she like a number?
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Well, the Ukrainian army will be cannon fodder for the United States, okay?

      Do you want it to become cannon fodder for the Russian Federation?
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Americans, like the late Roman Empire, already have a Georgian legion, have a Polish one, have an Estonian one, they are already being cut in Afghanistan and Iraq

      More than a few times more people die on the roads. However, I don’t know how in these countries — the Ukrainian units consist of volunteers.
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 4 September 2013 15: 21 New
        +2
        A worthy answer, one can only wish the freedom fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan to reload as many NATO scum and "volunteers" recruited from all over the world as possible.
  • Valery 532
    Valery 532 4 September 2013 14: 45 New
    -2
    The stability of the return to the "Ukrainian question" on this resource is already so funny to me ... I went to the site - and was sure of another pearl lol
    To the author: in addition to what has already been said about the weapons allegedly ditched in Ukraine, I will add: "Ukrainian" Tu-160s fly in Russia laughing

    And to the main issue under discussion: will Ukraine join NATO I answer:
    Be sure to enter! Since RUSSIA will definitely HELP! lol laughing
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 4 September 2013 16: 55 New
      +1
      "Ukrainian" TU-160s fly in Russia


      Which Russia managed to pick up.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 4 September 2013 19: 12 New
        +2
        Quote: Avenger711
        Which Russia managed to pick up.
        And if you also take into account in WHAT they were at that moment in a state ... I had to change ALL the stuffing, some naked "drums" on the caponiers stood, plundered completely ...
        1. Kars
          Kars 4 September 2013 19: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: Misantrop
          only naked "drums" on the caponiers stood, plundered completely ...

          Then no one would fly away.
          And what was the point of keeping them in combat readiness? And the Russian Federation could have fussed to buy them, apparently it was necessary.
  • daem00n
    daem00n 4 September 2013 16: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Anphy
    This is not a duck, but a real proposal to Ukraine, voiced this summer. And do not speak on behalf of the whole people. You would have to throat your EU with your NATO.

    I absolutely support!
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 4 September 2013 16: 54 New
    0
    after reconstruction, they can not only be put into service with the Ukrainian army, but also sold abroad


    They would have set it long ago, but nobody takes this stuff.
  • daem00n
    daem00n 4 September 2013 17: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Avenger711
    "Ukrainian" TU-160s fly in Russia


    Which Russia managed to pick up.

    Do not even pick up and exchange for GAS!
  • serge
    serge 4 September 2013 17: 19 New
    +4
    The European Union is the heir to the Roman Empire and the Empire of the German nation - the eternal enemies of the Slavs and Russians. Russians, including the Ukrainian branch of the Russian nation, have always been barbarians, slaves and an object of exploitation for Western Europeans. The people of Ukraine will never be equal for the West to the French, Anglo-Saxons or Germans, and will be interesting only as cannon fodder or an object of exploitation. NATO on the territory of Ukraine is a XNUMX% future war with Russia, and first of all, Russians on both sides will die in this war. In Vietnam, the Americans pitted the Vietnamese against the Vietnamese. In Russia, the Russians of Russia are pitted against the Russians of Ukraine. This policy is two thousand years old. Quote about the politics of the Roman Empire: "The Romans found it much more convenient to sow discord between the barbarians than to fight them. With the help of money and under the pretext of peace negotiations, they penetrated into the very heart of Germany and, without losing their dignity, resorted to all kinds of bait, in order to gain the favor of those tribes who, by their proximity to the Rhine and Danube, could have made the most useful friends for Rome out of restless enemies.They flattered the vanity of the most famous and influential German leaders, giving them the most trifling gifts, either as a sign of distinction, or only as luxury During internal strife, the weakest party tried to increase its influence by entering into secret relations with the governors of the border provinces.All conflicts between the Germans were supported by Roman intrigues, and any plan tending to unite the tribes or to their common benefit met an insurmountable obstacle in mutual envy and private interests. " (Gibbon, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"). "More than sixty thousand Germans fell, and not from Roman weapons, but, what is even more gratifying, for the delight of our eyes. May the gods remain, and hatred of their compatriots will grow even stronger among the peoples of Germany, for at most to please us with fate - this is strife between enemies "(Tacitus).
  • saag
    saag 4 September 2013 18: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    Thirdly, Ukraine is too close to the Russian Federation, and not all missiles will be aimed at it. This is not to mention that radioactive contamination will certainly go in the direction of the Russian Federation. Yes, and missiles are not so many unlike targets more important than the territory of Ukraine.

    The "Shelter" object over block 4 of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant does not need missiles here, is soon 2.0, work is underway on it in Ukraine, or will one fine moment be Chernobyl XNUMX?
    1. Kars
      Kars 4 September 2013 20: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: saag
      about it work is being carried out in Ukraine or will Chernobyl 2.0 be at one fine moment?

      Vedutsa. And if anything is available not only to Ukraine, but also to Belorussi and the Russian Federation.
  • Stamp
    Stamp 4 September 2013 20: 04 New
    +4
    I wonder what Yanukovych expects in the presidential election in 2015 to be re-elected to the presidency? With the rapprochement with the EU, he will lose most of his electorate in the East and South of Ukraine, as many election promises have not been fulfilled, and there has been no improvement in the special standard of living of the average citizen of Ukraine. At the same time, in the West and in the Center of Ukraine, he will not gain votes, since this is the fiefdom of the current opposition. Only falsification or election of the president in the parliament, if such a law is dragged, will save him from failure.

    Already a trial online vote is underway, which will end in 2015
    Election of the President of Ukraine 2015
    The results of the preliminary online voting are still curiously led by Tyagnibok, then Tymoshenko and Klitschko are coming. Yanuk is already the 5th.

    http://ukraine-elections.com.ua/vybory/result/3
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 4 September 2013 20: 45 New
      +2
      Whoever wins the election, as they pocketed their pockets, they will fill it.
      We do not have a policy ready to massively massacre government representatives (city hall workers, village council heads, police officers, deputies and all their assistants).
      So, Ukraine does not shine anything good from the new elections.
  • Sashko07
    Sashko07 4 September 2013 20: 25 New
    -1
    I fought with others like them, let’s throw the OVEC again, and you are corrupt in the direction of Ukraine, the people want to see the show, and the citizens of Russia let another drool in the comments.
  • EdwardTich68
    EdwardTich68 4 September 2013 21: 14 New
    +1
    Long-suffering Ukraine is tired of existing within its current borders, in this case Russia
    it is simply necessary to conduct shock therapy in this territory. It's time to finally stop mocking
    Little Russia sitting with popcorn at the screen. By any means, it is necessary to separate the grain from the chaff.
  • orient
    orient 4 September 2013 22: 48 New
    +1
    I don’t remember where I read the revelations of one of the current "political scientists", but there is logic in this ... In his opinion, the time has come for the division of the last natural resources on Earth and this will naturally not happen peacefully. After all, it is well known (in the opinion of the American scientists themselves) that the resources on Earth, necessary to maintain the "American standard of living" for all people, simply no longer exist. Hence the theory of the "golden billion", as well as the famous phrase of the former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: "It is unfair that Russia would fall LONE by such a territory as Siberia!" It is also known that with a population of 1,3% of the world, Russia has 30-40% of the world's natural resources. Therefore, the "political scientist", explaining the main task of any person (and this task, in his opinion, is the only thing: "the main thing is to survive!") And, given that this cannot be achieved alone (and at the level of states), expressed the opinion that it is necessary to make a choice, to whom to join when the last redistribution of resources enters the last stage. And here you can either (to the best of your strength and abilities) take part, or be content with the fact that you were simply left alive ... By the way, at one time, the Cossacks of Hetman Sagaidachny helped the Poles to take Moscow, but ... they simply did not let them in and ran there for a while themselves. Then the Cossacks repented, but the deed was done ... After all, they "walked" around the neighborhood so that ordinary people (those who survived ...) recalled it with horror. The dictum that "History teaches that it never taught people anything" remains relevant. The time has come for the "historical choice"
  • Dim btv
    Dim btv 4 September 2013 23: 01 New
    +2
    At one time, she was lucky to serve under the command of a wonderful man and a brilliant officer, who later became the Minister of Defense of independent Ukraine. In delirium I can’t imagine my former battalion commander as a NATO general! Yes, so that he allowed T64 to throw under the cutter a probable enemy!
    Alexander Ivanovich, health to you! The medal handed by you hangs above my desk in my office. I refuse to imagine Ukraine in NATO. The report is completed.
    1. Fastblast
      Fastblast 5 September 2013 00: 50 New
      0
      Ukraine in NATO can only be imagined - when NATO deserves it!
  • Centaurus
    Centaurus 4 September 2013 23: 23 New
    +2
    creation of military bases of the US Army and the US Air Force on Ukrainian territory is not ruled out.
    4erta with two them! Fucking, I’ll hijack a plane for the first time with its explosive attack and send it right at the base builders!
    What a bastard that is, God forgive me, the Yankees dictate to us how to live. Gagged by golly.

    It will be necessary to hut in the Crimea or Kharkov region. buy. If Ukraine joins NATO, these are the first to separate.
    1. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 5 September 2013 00: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Centaur
      Fucking, I’ll hijack a plane for the first time with its explosive attack and send it right at the base builders!


      blah blah blah ... you only cluck on the site
      1. Centaurus
        Centaurus 5 September 2013 11: 20 New
        0
        Yes, no, in general ... it's your prerogative)
        I just express my indignation and my readiness to act with all available ... Yes, what do I explain to you? !! .. I’ll go talk to the wall better, it has a range higher than your 4: P
  • Garrym
    Garrym 4 September 2013 23: 49 New
    0
    May Ukraine not join NATO !!!! This makes no sense!!!! Firstly, according to the constitution, Ukraine is not a bloc country and the deployment of foreign bases (the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation is ours !!!!) on the territory is not permissible and I doubt that a referendum will be convened, and even more so that the "zapadintsi" will win it. And secondly, Vladimir Vladimirovich will not allow the Russian version of American Cuba under his nose.
    1. Centaurus
      Centaurus 5 September 2013 11: 23 New
      0
      Ahem ... Only please, if you will bomb, dissipate the address where supporters and inspirers of Ukraine’s entry into NATO live.
      I, too, if I honestly think that this is unlikely ... but still ... they gave them a base in o4akov. What a chem. they also organized a laboratory here, people damn it.
      USA-bl..t, a club of fun and find!
  • Current 72
    Current 72 5 September 2013 00: 45 New
    0
    I read the comments of some commentators, it was hard on my soul. Brothers !!! Maybe it’s enough for a dog, because WE are one family, we once lived together. Remember who for us was Europe and the USA, ENEMIES, and now they suddenly became friends. Why is this? They need our land and our resources, and they don’t care about the rest. And if we dog, what will WE come to ???
    1. Centaurus
      Centaurus 5 September 2013 11: 25 New
      0
      They need our land and our resources.
      As far as I heard, they didn’t even take away our women. And they are happy to try ...
      The most interesting thing is that, well, at least those whom I know or knew, everyone who left with the foreigners then all returned back. Sad and poor.
  • Passer
    Passer 5 September 2013 00: 46 New
    0
    What are you noisy about, folk-like?
    Why anathema threaten you Russia?
    What angered you? unrest in Lithuania?
    Leave: this is a dispute between the Slavs,

    A. S. Pushkin, “Slanderers of Russia”

    Americans and Europeans - request: do not interfere!
  • Cristall
    Cristall 6 September 2013 00: 51 New
    0
    I repeat once again the wonderful words - the border between Ukraine and Russia is our Berlin Wall.
    Do not let yourself and others strengthen it and pour it with concrete .....
  • mithridate
    mithridate 6 September 2013 19: 35 New
    0
    west - grave for Ukraine