Military Review

Yanukovych and the topic of the famine in Ukraine: the government is different - the ideology is the same

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Yanukovych and the topic of the famine in Ukraine: the government is different - the ideology is the same



The head of the Ukrainian state, Viktor Yanukovych, together with his party, decided to actively use the ideological concepts of the Holodomor, which are among the main cornerstones of the Ukrainian state ideology. This is done, first of all, in order to demonstrate that they represent the interests of the entire Ukrainian population.

The president and his group of political consultants seemed to have certain problems with the emergence of political ideas, so they decided that it was quite possible to use what had already been used by predecessors. In Ukraine, the topic of the famine, in the sense of the genocide of the Ukrainian people, is raised at the official level. It was just such a concept that Goebbels and then Yushchenko put into it. The current president is not yet ready to use such high-profile definitions, but the events of 1932-1933 no longer consider the general hunger of the Soviet people. Moreover, Yanukovych stressed that this is a national tragedy, and ordered the government to prepare everything necessary for the 80 anniversary of the famine in a month.

Recall, the Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the Holodomor was established by Leonid Kuchma 15 years ago. But this topic has acquired the status of a humanitarian catastrophe already under the presidency of Viktor Yushchenko, who called the Holodomor a targeted act of genocide against the Ukrainian people. At the same time, the Day of Remembrance is a national day of mourning made by Viktor Yanukovych, who signed the necessary document just a few days ago. The decree says that all 24 events in November are planned at the highest state level. Everything is very pathetic, formal, personable and regrettable, with a minute of silence and half-mast flags.

It is likely that opponents of Yanukovych will appreciate such ideological metamorphoses, because we all know very well what this is all about. Anyway, for events of this kind should be prepared in advance, and not in a matter of months. Probably, the president had not previously thought that his popularity would fall so much that he would have to look for new ways to achieve it in an environment alien to him.

According to experts, thus, Yanukovych is trying to get close to the electorate, which not only should like the resuscitation of the Holodomor theme, but also who should see it as “his own” and have no doubts about re-election. It is not by chance that the head of state signed the decree on the eve of the World Congress of Ukrainians, which took place in Lviv at the end of August. By the way, this organization is openly nationalistic and anti-Russian. Moreover, its influence, she clearly exaggerates. However, it can be considered a kind of indicator of pro-Western sentiment. That is why, probably, the president has decided that direct participation in the mourning ceremony will not be enough, and an official document is needed. It is noteworthy that in previous years on Memorial Day, Yanukovych always limited himself exclusively to laying flowers at the memorial to the victims of the Holodomor in the capital.

According to the Ukrainian political scientist Vladimir Skachko, the current head of state in former times was very reserved about the policy of the Holodomor, which cannot be said about the present time. It is clear that the memorable sad date is approaching, and such a revelation emphasizing the national feeling of resentment fits very well into the context of the Ukrainian-Russian relations, in which there has been a significant exacerbation. That is why, the expert believes, nothing else from Yanukovych, who suddenly spoke exclusively in Ukrainian and became a nationalist, cannot be expected.

In fact, the president has begun preparations for the presidential elections scheduled for 2014. It will be a kind of competition, but not between the West and the East, but between patriots and superpatriots. And only those who manage to become a “super-duper patriot” will take the presidency. Thus, according to Skachko, we are already talking about fighting not for something, but against someone: against Russia, and not for modern Ukraine. This technique is well known to most political technologists: having found a convenient enemy, it is very easy to unite to fight against him.

According to Ukrainian political analyst Rostislav Ishchenko, Viktor Yanukovych raised the topic of genocide even earlier, in the spring of 2010. All the changes that have taken place with the head of state at the present time are connected, the political analyst is sure, with the fact that Yanukovych, in fact, became the successor of Viktor Yushchenko’s policy. Despite the fact that the current president’s policy is more moderate, its essence is the same: since joining the European Union was chosen as the foreign policy strategic course and the course towards integration with the Customs Union was rejected, the rhetoric of former opponents who followed the same course is necessary to adopt And the topic of the Holodomor is part of this rhetoric, in fact, as part of the foreign policy.

The same opinion is taken by Bogdan Bezpalko, who holds the position of deputy director of the Center for Ukrainian Studies and Belarusian Studies at Lomonosov Moscow State University. He is sure that V. Yanukovych decided to use frankly the rhetoric, ideological cliches, methods of his predecessor. By and large, in ideological terms, they are not very different from each other, as, indeed, most of the representatives of the Ukrainian political elite. As for the fact that Yanukovych decided to address the topic of the famine right now, the expert says that this is, in the first place, advantageous, especially against the background of the complication of bilateral interstate relations. Moreover, Yanukovych in this matter was supported by a lot of opposition politicians. Thus, Bezpalko stressed, Yanukovych has every chance to use the Holodomor theme to attract new allies and supporters and acquire the image of a real Ukrainian leader and politician.

However, many political scientists believe that the consequences of Yanukovych’s ideological transformations are not very obvious. After all, in essence, the head of state, roughly speaking, plays in a foreign field, and it is completely incomprehensible how not only its traditional voters, but also representatives of western regions will react to its new ideology. However, for the president at the present time, apparently, it is more important to acquire the status of a national leader, and for this it is not a pity neither a rating nor several million dollars allocated by the Ukrainian government to erect a monument to the victims of the Holodomor in Washington.

Materials used:
http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_08_24/JAnukovich-i-golodomornaja-politika-Ukraini-8583/
http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_08_21/Prezident-Ukraini-poshel-po-stopam-svoego-predshestvennika-Akcenti-9783/
http://rus.newsru.ua/ukraine/26nov2010/armageddon.html
http://www.km.ru/news/v_yanukoviche_prosnulsya_golodom
http://mignews.com.ua/ru/articles/42648.html
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246 comments
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  1. tttttt
    tttttt 5 September 2013 07: 49 New
    19
    The suite is made by the retinue, and surrounded by Yanukovych, only rhinos recourse laughing
    1. Sibiryak
      Sibiryak 5 September 2013 08: 26 New
      +5
      Quote: tttttt
      King makes retinue

      The main actor of the show called "Ukraine" has changed, but the writers have remained the same, do not you think that you have to catch a completely different fish to change the situation, and not point your finger at this swamp with toads.
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 5 September 2013 11: 52 New
        +4
        Why take an example from Yushchenko? He finished badly. Their idols and predecessors Mazepa and Vygovsky finished even worse.
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 5 September 2013 15: 14 New
          0
          Something about Yulia has not been heard lately, how is she in the dungeons of the fierce Ukrainian Security Council? Is the light of democracy alive?
    2. self-propelled
      self-propelled 5 September 2013 08: 38 New
      13
      before the presidential elections Yanukovych "tore his vest on his chest", assuring everyone that he would pursue a pro-Russian policy. now turned in the opposite direction. who likes a politician who, like a pr ... a duck, runs from side to side, flirting with the West, then with the East ?!
      According to experts, in this way, Yanukovych is trying to get close to the electorate, which should not only like the reanimation of the Holodomor issue, but also who should see in it “his own” and have no doubts about re-election
      - The electorate has already seen who he really is ...
      1. Sibiryak
        Sibiryak 5 September 2013 08: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: self-propelled
        before the presidential elections Yanukovych "tore his vest on his chest", assuring everyone that he would pursue a pro-Russian policy. now turned in the opposite direction. who likes a politician who, like a pr ... a duck, runs from side to side, flirting with the West, then with the East ?!

        Those who wrote this script knew very well what the attitude of the ordinary population of Ukraine towards Russia and Russians was, because it was impossible to divide the incomparable!
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 5 September 2013 15: 16 New
          +1
          You can bring up a new generation for which there will be no indivisible, mattress political strategists are able to do this.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 5 September 2013 09: 02 New
        +6
        Quote: self-propelled
        Yanukovych "tore a vest on his chest"

        He has his own factory for the production of vests.
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 5 September 2013 15: 16 New
          0
          and the wife's boots?
      3. elmi
        elmi 5 September 2013 09: 12 New
        +3
        Quote: self-propelled
        before the presidential elections Yanukovych "tore his vest on his chest", assuring everyone that he would pursue a pro-Russian policy. now turned in the opposite direction. who likes a politician who, like a pr ... a duck, runs from side to side, flirting with the West, then with the East ?!

        When elections in Ukraine, Russia needs to bet on a Russian politician and make a choice more carefully, so that it wouldn’t work like with Yanukovych.
        1. morpex
          morpex 5 September 2013 10: 19 New
          +8
          Quote: elmi
          When elections in Ukraine, Russia needs to bet on a Russian politician and make a choice more carefully, so that it wouldn’t work like with Yanukovych.


          Respected! Remember pzhalusta on whom did Russia stake in the last elections? Forgot? Let me remind you: On Yanukovych ... Now rake it up ... Maybe you shouldn't bet more? Maybe we ourselves will decide who to choose? without "help" amers and without yours too?
          1. Far East
            Far East 5 September 2013 12: 24 New
            +3
            Quote: morpex
            Maybe we ourselves will decide who to choose? without "help" amers and without yours too?

            dear! the citizens of Russia did not vote for Yanukovych! if needed! "Don't blame the mirror if the face is crooked!" you yourself chose it. hi
            1. morpex
              morpex 5 September 2013 15: 25 New
              +2
              Quote: Far East
              dear! the citizens of Russia did not vote for Yanukovych! if needed! "Don't blame the mirror if the face is crooked!" you yourself chose it.

              Am I the one who voted for whom? I repeat for the most gifted. No need to interfere! No need to climb into someone else’s garden with our charter ... No need to impose anyone on us ... We will decide how to rake our Augean stables .. I I wanted to say it. Got it?
              1. Far East
                Far East 6 September 2013 10: 53 New
                0
                Quote: morpex
                . I wanted to say this. Got it?

                porridge comes on a scourge! and where does it (bets) are your votes! I see you raking! laughing
          2. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 5 September 2013 12: 57 New
            +5
            Quote: morpex
            Remember pzhalusta who relied on Russia in the last election? Forgot? Let me remind you. On Yanukovych ... Now rake ...


            Yushchenko is it you?

            Quote: morpex
            .Maybe it is not worth making a bet anymore?


            Can you immediately send a letter to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation?

            Quote: morpex
            Maybe we ourselves will decide who to choose? without "help" amers and without yours too?


            Aha wink I saw how they chose in 2004.
            1. morpex
              morpex 5 September 2013 15: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: Karlsonn
              Yushchenko is it you?

              I am burning for Yusch with the same "love" as for Yanek. I omit the rest of your "comments". Cram your sarcasm yourself, you know where. There is something to say, tell. Essentially ... Or will you deny that Putin was betting on Yanukovych? And this played a decisive role in the elections, especially here, in the East. They believed, damn it, that Janek would bring us to the Customs Union. How! The Kremlin is for him! How then your media extolled him!
          3. Fin
            Fin 5 September 2013 20: 16 New
            +5
            Quote: morpex
            without "help" amers and without yours too?

            According to Experienced: bugag.
            I want to believe. Of course you decide, but it will be Klitschko. Whose project do you know?
            1. Yazevdvailitri
              Yazevdvailitri 6 September 2013 02: 02 New
              +3
              Don King?))
          4. elmi
            elmi 5 September 2013 20: 42 New
            +5
            Quote: morpex
            Respected! Remember pzhalusta on whom did Russia stake in the last elections? Forgot? Let me remind you: On Yanukovych ... Now rake it up ... Maybe you shouldn't bet more? Maybe we ourselves will decide who to choose? without "help" amers and without yours too?

            I clearly wrote that Russia was mistaken with the choice of Yanukovych. Who knew that he as a chameleon came to power with about Russian positions, and then became practically a Westerner. And who's stopping you from choosing? the flag in your hands, you are participating in the elections Ukrainians, not us, who intervenes? We can only sympathize with candidates with pro Russian positions.
          5. The comment was deleted.
        2. seller trucks
          seller trucks 5 September 2013 10: 34 New
          +5
          Quote: elmi
          When elections in Ukraine, Russia needs to bet on a Russian politician and make a choice more carefully, so that it wouldn’t work like with Yanukovych.


          in Ukraine today there is no and is not expected about Russian politicians, at one time it was Vetrenko, but the project did not take place, now it is Viktor Medvedchuk by the way, Putin in Kiev at the celebrations dedicated to the 1025th anniversary of the Baptism of Rus, exchanged negotiations with Yanukovych for a meeting with Medvedchuk , but in my opinion nothing shines on him yet, and in yesterday's interview he (BB) confirmed that it is not yet time "wherever Ukraine goes, we will still meet somewhere and sometime." (C) We need to stock up patience, beer and chips, wait how the reality show "Project Ukraine" will end
          1. morpex
            morpex 5 September 2013 10: 47 New
            +4
            Quote: seller trucks
            Now this is Victor Medvedchuk

            Oh Vitala ... How wrong you are! Believe me, this is another oligophrenic who was "offended" by the authorities. To return the grabbed, he is ready to sell to anyone ... He has already done business under Kuchma ... Fumble in the net. more about him. Yes, and he does not pull on the leader of the nation. So ... Another clown like Yusch ...
            1. seller trucks
              seller trucks 5 September 2013 11: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: morpex
              an oligophrenic who was "offended" by the authorities.


              according to A. Vajra, it is, there (in the Ukrainian government) everyone is like that, I don't create illusions. I prefer Valery Podyachiy from Sevastopol-Crimea-Russia, but this is also not an option.
      4. Corneli
        Corneli 5 September 2013 15: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: self-propelled
        before the presidential elections Yanukovych "tore his vest on his chest", assuring everyone that he would pro-Russian politics. now turned in the opposite direction. who would like a politician who, like a ... duck runs from side to side, flirting with either the West or the East ?!

        The election program of V. Yanukovych 2010:
        "7. FOREIGN POLICY: OPENNESS AND GOOD NEIGHBORHOOD
        I consider the main task of national foreign policy to maintain the non-aligned status of Ukraine.
        Taking into account modern geopolitical realities, I am convinced that Ukraine's non-aligned status is a key element of national security, increasing its international influence and authority ... "
        On April 2, 2010, Viktor Yanukovych signed decrees that liquidated the interagency commission on Ukraine’s preparations for joining NATO and the national center for Euro-Atlantic integration, created in 2006 under the presidency of Viktor Yushchenko
        On July 15, Yanukovych signed a law on the main directions of the state’s domestic and foreign policy, in which he finally abandoned the course of joining NATO, declaring Ukraine’s non-aligned status
        This is for fans to declare entry into NATO.
        "... I will restore friendly and mutually beneficial relations with the Russian Federation, the CIS countries, I will provide a strategic partnership with the US, EU, the GXNUMX countries."
        That's a mustache! Nowhere in his propaganda campaign "does he tear the vest." As for specific steps, then:
        Positive for Russia:
        1. April 21, 2010 - Kharkiv agreements were signed to extend the basing of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea for 25 years
        2. The Law "On the Basics of the State Language Policy" on August 8, 2012. However, the president is confident that the language law needs to be finalized., and instructed the working group that he created to develop amendments to it, which should be adopted by parliament in September 2012. Giving the Russian language at least some kind of status, despite the rabid hysteria of the Orange opposition.
        3. About NATO already wrote ...
        4. I wrote a quote below about the Holodomor ..
        Negative for Russia:
        1. On April 1, 2010, Yanukovych criticized the discussion about the possibility of creating an alliance of the states of Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. Yanukovych said that the strategic direction of Ukrainian foreign policy is integration into the European Union
        2. Further statements about the vehicle, as I understand it, were the results of pressure and bidding. Yanyk said that it’s not possible, that’s possible, but changes to the constitution are necessary ... In general, we see the result.
        P.S. Many things (like a course in the EU) have been happening for a long time, but remembered about it current schA, at the same time and a bunch of nonsense stuck to this ... it’s Kumar
    3. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 5 September 2013 08: 46 New
      11
      I won’t be surprised if Yanukovych climbs onto Hoverla, kisses the Yushchenko cross, puts a basket of flowers at the monuments to Bandera and Shukhevych (he’s afraid of wreaths. They’re falling on his head).
      Cynicism, hypocrisy, lies and impudence, this power does not hold. Little people without honor and conscience, lack of decency and culture, legalized lessons "in law" with one ideal "presidents on a green background."
      To stay in power, they are ready to turn out so that they can bite or lick their own ass (based on circumstances).
      1. Khokhol-MSC
        Khokhol-MSC 5 September 2013 13: 45 New
        +4
        Here is true cynicism:
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/ukrainian/ukraine_in_russian/2013/09/130903_ru_s_court_bann
        ed_referendum.shtml
        Ukraine banned referendum on joining the CU, because the people can choose not what the European Party wants :)
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 5 September 2013 09: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: tttttt
      The king is made by the retinue

      What a mournful face in the photo of your "king" laughing
      1. andrejwz
        andrejwz 5 September 2013 09: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What a mournful face in the photo of your "king"

        So God forbid that it falls again, it’s not a wreath anymore.
      2. Tersky
        Tersky 5 September 2013 09: 46 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What a mournful face in the photo of your "king"

        Sasha hi ! aphorism - "And the king is naked!", while alive and relevant. yes
      3. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 5 September 2013 15: 17 New
        0
        Maybe because he is naked? laughing
    5. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 5 September 2013 09: 12 New
      +1
      you wanted to say woodpeckers, but were embarrassed?
    6. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 26 New
      +5
      tttttt (2) UA
      THIS ENVIRONMENT?
      Speaking on November 14, 2007 in front of the Knesset deputies, the head of the Ukrainian state emphasized the special kinship of the stories of the two nations, for which for a long time "the enemy was the evil of statelessness and bondage, which brought discord, injustice and enmity between brothers." According to the president, today this kinship has one more support - "it is the dedication to democracy, which our peoples have chosen and are implementing." In this regard, Viktor Yushchenko expressed the support of the Ukrainian side to the Israeli community and its democracy, as well as sympathy for the tragic history of the Jewish people. “In our heart is pain and sorrow for the millions of innocent victims of your nation. We strongly and unequivocally condemn all crimes committed against the Jewish people by totalitarian regimes,” the President of Ukraine said.

      All this resembles some kind of theater of the absurd. Yushchenko speaks in the Knesset, draws analogies with the Holocaust and at the same time prepares to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the national hero of Ukraine, Roman Shukhevych, who during the war slaughtered Jews in Lviv, and his handymen from the infamous Nachtigall battalion shot everyone in a row - including including Ukrainians - in Babi Yar.
    7. MG42
      MG42 6 September 2013 01: 03 New
      +5
      Quote: tttttt
      The suite is made by the retinue, and surrounded by Yanukovych, only rhinos

      This is 5+! laughing
      1. regsSSSR
        regsSSSR 6 September 2013 03: 27 New
        +1
        yeah, what a globe of Ukraine you are laughing
        1. MG42
          MG42 6 September 2013 03: 38 New
          0
          Quote: regressSSSR
          yeah, what a globe of Ukraine you are

          Are you an artist writing in your profile? draw something like this + laughing
          1. regsSSSR
            regsSSSR 6 September 2013 04: 24 New
            +1
            To be honest, I’ve already thought about this)), although I have a slightly different specificity of my own (landscapes architecture), by the way, many sketches from the Crimea have been preserved)

            that's just the time is constantly lacking because the artist is my main profession and it takes a lot of time and just doesn’t always have the strength to draw something like this
            I just want to take a break from painting sometimes! sit read read insert commentsmile

            but! Now I think I’ll get involved all the time, I’ll take the time out and that I will naturally lay my own production! hi
          2. vitamin ky
            vitamin ky 6 September 2013 10: 27 New
            +3
            Here you are laughing all the fuckers and kahans - and I have wool on my back on end (a joke) from the observable - and if the bureaucratic apparatus of other countries bends their ideology directly and without frills, but, persistently and constantly, our peppers throw from corner to corner with a constant change in the vector of both political addictions and one’s own plans (only one thing is invariably and not unshakable - TURN UP - STEAL - TAKE OFF YOURSELF - the country is quietly slipping into the first-communal mess in spite of universal computerization sad and a general seat on the Internet.
            I look here talking about cartoons and caricatures
            here's a story based on already known paintings and fables - At the crossroads there is a mountain snake in an embroidered shirt and sharavara and looks at the stone while thinking, all three heads thinking about deametrically opposite things, which means that their thoughts will not come to a common denominator not when, moreover, in the tense position of the snake, it seems that he wants to tear into three parts and will tear, because he has the same number of three wishes and has only two legs, and this is a problem lol - behind a stone there are three paths - the left one leads to the EU - and its background is identified by a huge ghostly (like a mirage) hypertrophyrophic ass and other attributes of a free European freestyle. The right path leads to an unknown region under the flag of the TS - (not known for a simple reason - information for an ordinary Ukrainian, for all the pros and cons, it’s not very offensive, it’s only known that Mishka lives in that fairy-tale place (toptygin, don’t throw jokes), he’s angry (he will pick everything for himself), he’s kind of roofing felts (he’ll help and protect) educational program for an ordinary resident of this country, Russia did not conduct, and if it did, it was meager and narrowly targeted.
            Well, the third way - to nowhere - the path flows through the picturesque natural places and abuts against a bottomless abyss - which goes deep and into the distance somewhere in the left direction.
            Well, there’s a storyline - the matter behind the image - voila - there’s a new reason to neighing - although I’m not at all ridiculous - I’m sad from the understanding that 42 is the result and, roughly speaking, though not age, it comes to understanding that a new generation has grown up other cockroaches in his head and my nephews — from the brother of the acrobat will live in the fact that we will leave them — and it’s not about whether we leave bad or good, but that we leave at least something sad
            Somehow messy happened -I'm not complaining -Just a statement of fact
  2. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 5 September 2013 08: 03 New
    +4
    For so many politicians, their own principles are nothing, their own power is everything.
    And with Yanukovych, in a situation where you do not turn around anyway ... either West or East, you have to at least look for moral compensation. Any sex therapist will say the same thing. :)
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 5 September 2013 10: 12 New
      +3
      What are the principles of an overgrown gopnik urka?
  3. Quiet
    Quiet 5 September 2013 08: 05 New
    +2
    The head of the Ukrainian state, Viktor Yanukovych, together with his party decided to actively use the ideological concepts of the Holodomor

    The "pimply" was already stepping on this rake ... wassat Well, history does not teach them anything !!! am
  4. Majordok
    Majordok 5 September 2013 08: 17 New
    +3
    In the leadership of Ukraine, "gentlemen" with dual citizenship - mainly Israel and the United States, with all that it implies!
    1. Hug
      Hug 6 September 2013 00: 06 New
      -3
      Quote: MajorDok
      In the leadership of Ukraine, "gentlemen" with dual citizenship - mainly Israel and the United States, with all that it implies!


      And you, from this bad sleep? Or is the degree of patriotism of the people determined by its degree of anti-Semitism - they say that he is not a patriot who does not mention Israel in vain? What do you care about him - is there really no problem in your country?
  5. cooper
    cooper 5 September 2013 08: 21 New
    -14
    The Holodomor, really a tragedy and genocide indeed. Not a coincidence but a purposeful policy of the Bolsheviks. Not only that they took all the bread, but also cordons were put out so that people could not leave their villages. What else can I call it ???????
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 5 September 2013 08: 45 New
      17
      Quote: Cooper
      The Holodomor, really a tragedy and really genocide.
      Now, if after these words WRITTEN NOT ONLY THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE BUT AND RUSSIAN it would have been very good ..
      Not an accident, but a targeted policy Bolsheviks.
      But the Bolsheviks, it turns out, is it Russian?
      1. cooper
        cooper 5 September 2013 23: 05 New
        -2
        do not confuse the sinful with the righteous. Russia cannot determine how it relates to hunger in the Volga, although this is the same artificially created famine-famine.
        1. vitamin ky
          vitamin ky 6 September 2013 11: 14 New
          +3
          eh fellow countryman - you’re grieving me - well, no one argues that there was any famine, but he was not only in (in) Ukraine, and somehow he was protecting his own from others, it looks like it’s not ethical fie kuda it brought me (what’s the word close) -karoche notice and highlight only their own-this is selfishness.
          Yes, and this is not the most important thing - in the realities of the day - this is not the main thing - I’ll say the words of someone great - (in a thousand years, like a shaggy year) -----
          (c) ......- About the dead -NOED TO REMEMBER (ALWAYS) -On the living -NOAD TO THINK !!!! AND REMEMBER (p about with t about I nn about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
    2. reserve
      reserve 5 September 2013 08: 46 New
      -13
      Now you will be told that you are "svidomit" and not a person at all, even if there are scoundrels in Ukraine who believe that there was no Holodomor.
      1. uizik
        uizik 5 September 2013 08: 49 New
        +6
        Tupac you! And dumb!
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 5 September 2013 13: 50 New
          +1
          on
          Quote: rezerv
          Ukraine has villains who believe that there was no famine.


          For example, what do you tell me? I hung my ears on a nail of attention
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 5 September 2013 09: 11 New
        +9
        Quote: rezerv
        Now you will be told that you are "svidomit" and not a person at all, even if there are scoundrels in Ukraine who believe that there was no Holodomor.

        I don’t know who will say what, but I know one thing that is not the topic of the Holodomor: your politicians earn points and no more. Yanek won a wreath or cho will lay there, will make a mournful mine, and then drink champagne for a successful PR.
      4. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 5 September 2013 13: 03 New
        +9
        Quote: rezerv
        Now you will be told that you are "svidomit" and not a person at all, even if there are scoundrels in Ukraine who believe that there was no Holodomor.


        Surprisingly, here, US citizens do not know anything about the famine in their own country, and more than 5 000 000 US citizens - that ...
        Can they go, enlighten them? And you live, you know, in ignorance.
        1. general
          general 5 September 2013 18: 34 New
          -8
          Why are you disrespectful - will you measure people's lives with numbers? However...
          PS By the way, Carlson-they say the constant wearing of a hat, headphones and smoking tobacco destructively affects the human brain (although I personally do not consider you that).
      5. revnagan
        revnagan 5 September 2013 23: 07 New
        +5
        Quote: rezerv
        if even in Ukraine there are villains who believe that there was no famine.

        If you, dear, consider the Holodomor exclusively an action directed by the Russian people in the person of the Bolsheviks to extinct the Ukrainian people, then there really was no famine. Well, the Russian Ukrainians weren’t destroyed on the basis of a national sign that you didn’t prove it. The famine was also in the RSFSR, and in the Urals. It was one big trouble, one for everyone, and it’s immoral to dance on the bones.
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 5 September 2013 09: 08 New
      +7
      Quote: Cooper
      The Holodomor, really a tragedy and really genocide.

      Only the Ukrainian people or in Russia at that time there was no famine?
      1. morpex
        morpex 5 September 2013 10: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Only the Ukrainian people or in Russia at that time there was no famine?

        There was one country .. And Ukraine and Russia suffered equally from this famine ... And then and now those in power keep their subjects for the source material and experiment with it as they want ... Time goes by but the essence of power does not change ...
      2. Docent1984
        Docent1984 5 September 2013 10: 54 New
        +5
        They forget about the Volga region and the Tambov region. Like everything was fine there ...
      3. cooper
        cooper 5 September 2013 23: 08 New
        -1
        We decided on our own, and gave this assessment. You are also determined that there was an accident or a planned action to exterminate the peasantry as a class.
        1. kush62
          kush62 6 September 2013 05: 04 New
          +2
          quote: We decided on something, and gave this assessment. You are also determined that there was an accident or a planned action to exterminate the peasantry as a class.

          And if we assume this option: the Holodomor in the Volga region, in the Urals, in Kazakhstan
          The Ukrainian Bolsheviks-nationalists deliberately started to plague the rest of the people and leave only one nation.
          Immediately and obviously see the idiocy and one-sided interpretation of your famine.
    4. IRBIS
      IRBIS 5 September 2013 09: 34 New
      10
      Quote: Cooper
      The Holodomor, really a tragedy and really genocide.

      Don't you think that the Ukrainians are addicted to this Holodomor (well, the name was invented!), Like Jews to the Holocaust? And everyone walks around, with mournful faces - depicting universal sadness. They killed it, destroyed it ... Destroyed it, killed it ... Well, I don't believe in the sincerity of such a sprinkling of ashes on my head, I don't believe it! Everyone is trying to earn credibility on their bones, like our "democrats" wandering around the Stone to victims of political repression. For the majority of Ukrainians, who actively exaggerate the Holodomor theme, this is just another reason to kick Russia. After all, it is deliberately emphasized that it was the Ukrainians who were starved to death.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 5 September 2013 22: 04 New
        +4
        Quote: IRBIS
        Don't you think that Ukrainians got hooked on this Holodomor (well, they came up with the name!), Like Jews in the Holocaust? And all walk with mournful faces - they portray universal sadness. They killed, they destroyed ... They destroyed, they killed ... Well, I don’t believe in the sincerity of such dusting my head with ash, I don’t believe


        What is the essence of the Holocaust?
        In the aspiration of the Nazis at any cost (better by driving away, but if it doesn’t work, then by killing) to get rid of the Jews (and Gypsies), who are "innately (genetically) alien, harmful race", finally and irrevocably, and no matter where. Moreover genocide of all non-Aryan peoples (including Slavs, mentally ill, homosexuals). The policy of genocide provided for the physical destruction by executions and executions of huge contingents of the Slavic population and its reduction by deliberate organization of hunger and epidemicselimination of medical and sanitary services, a sharp reduction in the birth rate, separation and fragmentation of individual peoples into small ethnic groups, etc.
        Another thing is that the Zionists UZURPIROVA the genocide of peoples as exclusively the Holocaust of the Jews, using for this their total dominance in the world media and information technology.
        What is the essence of the Great Famine of 1932-33?
        In the desire of the Bolsheviks break tradition at any cost(at any cost, this is the key reason) as quickly as possible transforming small-scale, extremely inefficient agriculture into a system of large agro-cultural enterprises controlled by the state, to the maximum mechanized and able to ensure the rapid industrialization of the country. (and this is the GOAL for the sake of which they broke the peasant small-proprietary system and ideology through the knee)
        The goals of the destruction of the disloyal population as a genocide policy WAS NOT!
        Moreover, THE HUNGER OF 1932/33 IS ORGANIZED BY AN OPPONENTS OF COLLECTIVIZATION, TAMPERING AND WRITTEN OF ANTI-SOVIET, ANTI-STALIN PART OF THE SOCIETY. Moreover, they were carried out in a conscious and organized form. and their henchmen.

        You see one side, you see well. But this is only one side of the matter. In order not to make a mistake in politics (your letters are not fiction, but solid politics), you need to observe, you must be able to see the other side. And the other side is that the respected farmers in your area (and not only your area) carried out the “Italian” (sabotage!) And were not averse to leaving the workers, the Red Army - without bread. The fact that sabotage was quiet and seemingly harmless (without blood), this fact does not change the fact that dear grain growers essentially fought a “quiet” war with the Soviet regime. War to the deathdear comrade Sholokhov ...
        Of course, this circumstance in no way can justify the outrages that were allowed, as you assure, by our employees. And those guilty of these outrages must be duly punished. But it’s still clear, like God's day, that respected farmers are not so harmless people as it might seem from afar.
        Well, all the best and shake your hand.
        Your I. Stalin

        From the answer of I.V. Stalin's famous letter Sholokhov
    5. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 09: 57 New
      +2
      Cooper UA
      The Holodomor, really a tragedy and really genocide. -It is strange that the descendants of the genocide are still striking with their not too wrinkled faces and very well-groomed appearance.
      Not only did they take all the bread, but also cordons were put out so that people could not leave their villages. -UHU, especially when it was rich and rich, buried grain in the ground, swelled right from greed, and your ancestors dragged it from grain flows and storage places grain, what did the guard have to put up against marauders?
      And finally, the number of adult men who left for Russia in those years suspiciously clearly coincides with the number of dead.
      In general, the Bandera shard, Svidomo with a brain disfigured by rot, do not tell anyone about this bullshit, well, except for Yushchenko and Yanukovich with Farion and Tyagnibok.
    6. Proud.
      Proud. 5 September 2013 10: 06 New
      +3
      Quote: Cooper
      Holodomor, really a tragedy

      Really a tragedy.
      Quote: Cooper
      really genocide.

      Lie. The basis of this lie is the "work" of D. Mace, published by Harvard University Press in 1983. This work did not receive recognition among American scientists. Can you explain why, the political power in the country, it was necessary to destroy the whole People with his history? He took the term "Holodomor" from a lad named Dmitro Solovey, who fled in 1944 with the invaders, then dumped in the USA. Did you write the truth? No, he followed Goebbels's advice. There was another one. Conquest. Who wrote "Harvest sorrow ". As the really independent American scientists-Sovietologists Arch Getty, Herbert Hertle, Alexander Dallin found out, As the basis of his book he took from the ARTISTIC works of Astafiev, Mozhaev and Grossman, and the writings of the servants of the Germans - H. Kostiuk and D. Nightingale. 13 December In 1985, a commission was created in the United States to "study the Holodomor" in Ukraine in 1932-1933. In this commission Yushchenko's wife worked. Well, in the 90s, Kulchitsky became the main ideologist of the Holodomor, or rather he began earlier, from the late 80s. x, And no wonder, he was employee of the ideological apparatus of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine in the 1970-1980s.
      Quote: Cooper
      purposeful policy of the Bolsheviks.
      Local Bolsheviks, not the fact that in spirit. Kosior, Chubar, Epstein, Khatayevich. Chubar Yushchenko "found guilty", the rest (I wonder why?) No.
      Quote: Cooper
      so that people could not leave their villages.
      Can you confirm with an authentic document?
      1. cooper
        cooper 5 September 2013 23: 17 New
        -2
        and for me (and for most Ukrainians) the fact of the famine is an axiom that does not require proof. There are no witnesses to this now, but once upon a time relatives were told by their friends. This is enough for me.
    7. sdv68
      sdv68 5 September 2013 10: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: Cooper
      The Holodomor, really a tragedy and really genocide.


      The Bolsheviks can be called anyone but not fools. They would not have cut the branch on which they sit. And this bitch is grain export. If all Ukrainians were wiped out "at the root" (read the definition of the word GENOCIDE), the USSR would have lost more than 30-40% of all grain.

      Quote: Cooper
      and the targeted policy of the Bolsheviks


      And who organized a similar "genocide" in Europe, for example, in Poland:

      http://za.zubr.in.ua/2009/11/30/3776/
      1932 Polish newspaper "New hour":

      "In the Hutsul region, the number of starving farms reached 88,6% ... In March, about 40 villages of Kosivsky, 12 villages of Naddvirnyansky and 10 - of Kolomia counties went on a full hunger strike ... People swell from starvation and die on the go. Hunger in villages "Redundancies, Old Gvizdtsy, Ostrovitsy. Typhoid and tuberculosis quickly spread with hunger."

      1932 Lviv newspapers report that in the Carpathian region, the population of Western Ukraine lives in terrible poverty. There are villages in the Kalush Voivodeship where entire families die out of hunger. After the ban by the Polish government to engage in woodworking in a lean year, the Hutsuls did not have any means of subsistence. The Polish government did not provide any help to the starving.

      1932 Polish newspaper "Power":

      "In Zdunska Wola, a peasant brought to the fair to sell his 18-year-old son, in order to save the rest of his family from starvation with the proceeds of the money. He asked for him only 50 zlotys."


      Quote: Cooper
      Not only did they take all the bread


      Really few. In addition, the USSR / Russia also helped the starving regions. Including and bread.

      “According to our estimates, based on an analysis of sources ... in 1933, in total, Ukraine received 501 thousand tons of grain in the form of food and seed loans ... Russian regions (without Kazakhstan) respectively received 900 thousand tons ... The extent of food resources received by Ukraine in 1933 is evidenced by the fact that during the famine of 1921-1922. all international aid to the starving in Soviet Russia, including five regions of Ukraine, amounted to 568 thousand tons ". (with)

      Kondrashin V.V. Famine of 1932-1933: the tragedy of the Russian village. - M.: ROSSPEN, 2008 - P.243.
      The book, as you can see in 2008, and Kondrashin, who is still a liberal, did not embellish the situation. It is enough to read his whole book to understand his anti-Bolshevik sentiments.
    8. seller trucks
      seller trucks 5 September 2013 10: 53 New
      -1
      Quote: Cooper
      The Holodomor, really a tragedy and really genocide.


      There was no "Holodomor", yes, there was famine all over the country, and the Holodomor project is an idea to "cut down" money for free, as usual, Russia is the legal successor of the USSR. it is not the fate of the "Square" to repeat the Jewish "Holocaust" scam.
    9. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 September 2013 12: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: Cooper
      and really genocide


      Who is the genocide?

      Quote: Cooper
      Not an accident, but a purposeful policy of the Bolsheviks.


      All the Bolsheviks were from Mars?
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 5 September 2013 14: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Karlsonn
        All the Bolsheviks were from Mars?

        Among the Bolsheviks there were a disproportionate number of people of non-Russian nationality, especially Jews.
      2. cooper
        cooper 5 September 2013 23: 23 New
        0
        YOU are trying to switch to an exclusively national understanding of genocide. Although the extermination of the peasantry as a class can also be called such.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 6 September 2013 01: 34 New
          0
          Quote: Cooper
          YOU are trying to switch to an exclusively national understanding of genocide. Although the extermination of the peasantry as a class can also be called such.

          Well, how did you want? The peasants in Ukraine were mainly ethnic Russians, there was no such nation as "Ukrainians" yet, but Russians were a minority among the Bolsheviks (compared to, for example, Jews), so it turns out that Russian peasants were genocidal by non-Russian Bolsheviks.
    10. Setrac
      Setrac 5 September 2013 14: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Cooper
      Not only did they take all the bread, but also cordons were put up so that people could not leave their villages. What can I call it ???????

      In the Kuban it was the same, why make a fetish out of it? Ukraine has nothing more to be proud of?
      1. cooper
        cooper 5 September 2013 23: 23 New
        0
        We are not proud. we just remember.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 6 September 2013 01: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: Cooper
          We are not proud. we just remember.

          You do not "just remember", you are using the Holodomor as an information weapon against the Russians in the interests of your Western masters, although the Russians are not to blame for the Holodomor.
    11. Jogan-xnumx
      Jogan-xnumx 5 September 2013 18: 31 New
      +2
      You're lying, sir, cheeky, stupid and shameless !!! Natsikovskih pseudo-historians have read? Sorry. You then read at the same time the labor study of the American scientist-historian Mike Tauger about the causes of the famine in Ukraine. This, for your information, is not a Bolshevik agitation at all.

      At the same time I add that I have a neighbor born in 1926, a native of the Voronezh region. Still alive and in sound memory. She personally told me what their hunger then was, in Russia and what mortality. In the spring of the 33rd, they barely waited until the grass rose, baked from it mixed with crushed bark of pellets and spruce.

      My parents are natives of Kharkov region. Father of the 25th born, mother of the 27th born My father is no longer there, but the mother is alive and well, too, remembers the 33rd. According to them and the words of my grandmothers, with whom I spoke personally on the topic of the Holodomor (history is my hobby hi ), in our village and other nearby villages there was no famine. By that time, a collective farm had formed in our country, moreover, without any coercion. There was then an average level of harvest, which made it possible to fulfill the grain procurement plan and pay the collective farmers for workdays. Received 1 kg of grain for 1 workday. Few? Plus, in every yard there were at least hens and a garden of course. This is the harvest of the rest of the garden, if anyone takes care. Everyone lived to the next harvest. Not starving at all.

      And from the NKVD cordons then there was already one militiaman who "patrolled" on a horse in distant districts and picked up hungry, mostly orphaned children and brought them to the collective farm shelter created at that time.

      And after the stories of these eyewitnesses, do you want me to believe in the genocide sucked from my finger? This, sorry, people like you, are now arranging genocide for your own brains and elementary common sense! Enough to read the interview of the mayor of Izmail (!), from which under Yusch the central authorities demanded lists of those who died during the famine! If you do not understand, then I repeat - Mr. ISHMAL!

      Or maybe you, sir, from the Slang, huh? Type, one among strangers and a stranger among his own? Hint. If so, then of course ... Srebreniki need to work out ... fool
      1. cooper
        cooper 5 September 2013 23: 28 New
        -2
        Your neighbor, and no offense, said Parents have too good a memory. At this age, remember the workdays and the number of police officers.
        Check the numbers. And then somehow it turns out uncomfortable.
        1. Jogan-xnumx
          Jogan-xnumx 7 September 2013 02: 03 New
          0
          I explain on the fingers that you read further carefully. In addition to my parents, I also talked with grandmothers. Mine. Relatives. Two. One of them was born in 1902, the second - from 1904. My father was 33 at the age of 8, my mother was 6. I personally studied at the age of 8 at the 2nd grade of the school and I remember well everything that happened then. And you? Complaints about your memory? Not all the same ..., forgotten. This applies to reconciliation of numbers, from which you are not comfortable.
          As for the genocide of the Ukrainians, sucked out of your finger, try to argue for a start with the above-named historian, and not with me, if you want more facts. And it’s stupid, excuse me, to repeat the utter nonsense put into your ears, and to talk pointlessly about some axioms is a clear sign of limitation. Especially with your "arguments" that once, someone, somewhere and something told you something like that, and who, who said this, allegedly no longer exist. Isn't it funny?
          Moreover, there are eyewitnesses. And they say. Just not that such as you are profitable. Why did you touch only my parents and my neighbor? Why did not pay attention to the historian? Or in an interview with the mayor of Ishmael? Not profitable? It’s given to me that you, my friend, are a demagogue. Verbiage, you know ... negative
    12. Estray_
      Estray_ 6 September 2013 01: 23 New
      +1
      Pol_ts_ya ylani b'yut kolbami when nakoky on the village, kpik, katyut people, and as a result of the scribes, as it was created by us to write the letters given, By bitty іde a wicked grabber and gylyanka, but at the end of a wild ґvalt and a crisp valtian dvchat. Y Chizhikov was greeted in one house as a mother and daughter, since she was a daughter. A lot of skaters have calmed down, that year, they all go, because there’s no mail, and they’re fighting to give people a chance to see. There are a lot of people and post-graduates, for example, Hermanov, Konyukhah, etc. Forgive you, give me the price to see the lights, and as we know it, so how do you go in the transmission before the American chapters. I have always been convinced, and I don’t have any fear, like a copy. " Submit for publication: For the most important part of Poland, a solidarity in Europe. - New York, 20. - C. 1930-1978] http://joff.ucoz.ru/news/golodomor_v_zapadnoj_ukraine/35-37-2010-11
      And this is also Stalin and the Bolsheviks ???
    13. fedorovith
      fedorovith 10 September 2013 21: 21 New
      0
      Well, yes, so the whole union was fattening at the time when Ukraine was starving, some cry against the crying wall, others simply without a wall.
  6. cooper
    cooper 5 September 2013 08: 42 New
    -3
    Quote: self-propelled
    before the presidential elections Yanukovych "tore his vest on his chest", assuring everyone that he would pursue a pro-Russian policy. now turned in the opposite direction. who likes a politician who, like a pr ... a duck, runs from side to side, flirting with the West, then with the East ?!
    According to experts, in this way, Yanukovych is trying to get close to the electorate, which should not only like the reanimation of the Holodomor issue, but also who should see in it “his own” and have no doubts about re-election
    - The electorate has already seen who he really is ...
    The electorate, you said it out loud, just people.
    And he did, it’s another matter that Russia itself didn’t really support him.
  7. Tatarus
    Tatarus 5 September 2013 08: 48 New
    +7
    Quote: Cooper
    The Holodomor, truly tragedy and genocide, is not an accident, but a purposeful policy of the Bolsheviks.


    In Russia, it was the starving Volga region and the executions of peasants in the Tambov region. Yes, a lot of things. What do we now call Israel to answer. So what if he was not there then, there was enough Jewish nationality among the Bolsheviks. Yes, famine in Ukraine is a tragedy. So mourn in silence what policy to make of tears. (This is about the Ukrainian government, not about the people)
    1. Nikolski1973
      Nikolski1973 5 September 2013 09: 30 New
      +4
      I agree that there is nothing to do from the tragedy, and this tragedy was not only in Ukraine, but also in Russia.
    2. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 11: 29 New
      +6
      Quote: Tatarus
      So mourn silently what policy to make of tears

      I agree. Woe is always remembered. It does not need reminders ...
  8. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 5 September 2013 08: 51 New
    +5
    I wonder if anyone understands the reasons for this of your "Holodomor", which consisted in the fact that the West refused to accept gold from the USSR as payment for technology and equipment, but only accepted grain and nothing more, as Shylock demanded from Shakespeare his "pound living flesh ", so the USSR had to pay exclusively with grain, taking it away from its own peasants, and thanks to this they managed to industrialize before Adolf and his thugs showed up, but if they did not have time to industrialize, then there would be neither their tanks nor planes, no shells just like in the tsarist army, and then Adolf Hitler would "feed" the Ukrainians in Auschwitz, Buchenwald or some other "evil" place, because Ukrainians as Slavs in the understanding of the Germans are the same "subhumans" as Jews, Cynans or russkie.Tak that it is not necessary to make your deceitful tears trying to pity European gays.
    1. Uzoliv
      Uzoliv 5 September 2013 09: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Which consisted in the fact that the West refused to accept gold from the USSR as payment for technology and equipment, and accepted only grain and nothing more

      Well, that's not true. It is enough just to look at the contracts that were concluded by representatives of the Soviet government with specific Western firms, how they were paid. Here is one example: "At the beginning of 1933, an agreement was signed between the Soviet government and the American company Nitrogen for the provision of technical assistance in the synthesis of ammonia, which included consulting assistance in the construction of synthesis columns and synthesis catalyst shops at the Bobrikovsky and Bereznikovsky plants. According to the agreement, the company was supposed to train Soviet specialists in the independent production of catalyst mass, and also to give "Khimstroy" of the People's Commissariat of Heavy Industry (according to the Soviet side, this was not spelled out in the contract) a method of manufacturing catalysts "in USSR conditions."
      The contract with the Nitrogen company was in effect from June 1933 to August 1934 inclusive. For its services, the firm received remuneration in the amount of $ 840 thousand, which were paid in tranches of $ 60 thousand per month. The cost of the equipment purchased in the USA and Europe was not included in the contract price. "
      There was simply not so much gold for such a large-scale project as industrialization in the country.
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 5 September 2013 10: 47 New
        +2
        Quote: Uzoliv
        The contract with Nitrogen was valid from June 1933 to August 1934 inclusive. The company received a reward of $ 840 thousand for its services, which were paid in tranches of $ 60 thousand per month.

        And where did these very dollars come from? Is it not from selling exclusively grain?
    2. sdv68
      sdv68 5 September 2013 10: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Which consisted in the fact that the West refused to accept gold from the USSR as payment for technology and equipment, but accepted only grain and nothing more,


      It was with the USSR that they traded either for gold or for grain. Google on the "Golden Blockade".
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 5 September 2013 11: 07 New
        +3
        Quote: sdv68
        It was with the USSR that they traded either for gold or for grain. Google on the "Golden Blockade".

        So the "golden blockade" was precisely the refusal to accept the gold of the USSR as a means of payment under the pretext that when the USSR refused to pay the tsar's debts, its gold supposedly belongs to foreigners and the USSR pays them with their own funds. Soviet gold either in full or accepting it (the most greedy) at a very low rate, at first they refused to give loans to the Soviet government at all, and later, when it became clear that the USSR, in principle, and without them, set a discriminatory tariff. So the peasants in any case were doomed to starvation not at the whim of the "tyrant" Stalin, but at the firm desire of the West to "strangle communism in the cradle." You are already fed up with all your tales that people who do not know history or liberals can lead to.
  9. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 5 September 2013 09: 03 New
    +5
    before the presidential elections Yanukovych "tore his vest on his chest", assuring everyone that he would pursue a pro-Russian policy. now turned in the opposite direction. who likes a politician who, like a pr ... a duck, runs from side to side, flirting with the West, then with the East ?!

    Now it’s time for him to put on an orange scarf and settle in a tent on the Maidan, demanding compensation from Russia!
  10. Semurg
    Semurg 5 September 2013 09: 19 New
    0
    There was a famine, people died of starvation in peacetime, and these people were not even enemies of the state. Maybe stupidity, maybe a disregard for people, can purposefully in any case need to remember and know this. Well, if anyone does PR on this, inflating this matter or, on the contrary, denying, then this is very not beautiful.
    1. tttttt
      tttttt 5 September 2013 09: 35 New
      +8
      At that time there was a strong crop failure, and everywhere, and overseas too. All P_ndosovsky pugs bark about the Holodomor, and they never even looked at demographic statistics of the population in the United States in 30-33 years. And she just isn’t! She was struck out altogether so that no one would know how many people TAM died! But we always poke a finger in the eye.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 5 September 2013 10: 59 New
        +5
        Quote: tttttt
        population statistics for 30-33 years in the USA. And she just isn’t! She was struck out altogether so that no one would know how many people TAM died!
        But photographs of Americans dying of hunger were taken all over Ukraine, posing as documentary evidence of the UKRAINIAN famine. The scandal then was very large ... lol
    2. sdv68
      sdv68 5 September 2013 10: 24 New
      +8
      Quote: Semurg
      There was a famine, people died of hunger in peacetime, and these people were not even enemies of the state.


      There was famine, but there was a "famine", that is. there was no purposeful genocide against Ukrainians. Moreover, the famine was not only in the USSR, but also in a number of European countries. By the way, this famine was actually the last serious famine on the territory of the USSR (even the post-war famine of 46-47 was much easier). Collective farms have helped tackle this age-old Russian problem.
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 5 September 2013 11: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: sdv68
        Quote: Semurg
        There was a famine, people died of hunger in peacetime, and these people were not even enemies of the state.


        There was famine, but there was a "famine", that is. there was no purposeful genocide against Ukrainians. Moreover, the famine was not only in the USSR, but also in a number of European countries. By the way, this famine was actually the last serious famine on the territory of the USSR (even the post-war famine of 46-47 was much easier). Collective farms have helped tackle this age-old Russian problem.

        We don’t understand each other correctly, for me hunger is when there is little food, and famine is when people die from lack of food. Just when they write the famine, it is believed that this applies only to Ukrainians. Although the famine was in many places of the union.
        1. sdv68
          sdv68 5 September 2013 13: 15 New
          +3
          Quote: Semurg
          Just when they write the Holodomor, it is believed that this applies only to Ukrainians. Although the Holodomor was in many places of the union.


          You are mistaken. If you look at what Ukrainians understand by HUNGER, you will find out that in this case we are talking about the PURPOSE GENOCIDE of the UKRAINIAN PEOPLE. T.ch. if you don’t find fault with the words and adopt the Ukrainian wording, then in 32-33 in the USSR (as in some European countries) there was HUNGER, but not HOLODOMOR.
  11. pensioner
    pensioner 5 September 2013 09: 22 New
    +4
    Quote: Cooper
    The Holodomor, truly tragedy and genocide, is not an accident, but a purposeful policy of the Bolsheviks.

    I will advise. Scream that Assad is to blame for the famine. They’ll take it immediately to the EU. Drafty.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 September 2013 13: 07 New
      +4
      Quote: retired
      I will advise. Scream that Assad is to blame for the famine. They’ll take it immediately to the EU. Drafty.


      There, before joining, some more services need to be provided, and then, upon a signal, immediately take the knee-elbow position.
      1. Kosatka
        Kosatka 5 September 2013 13: 29 New
        +5
        Shout here. do not scream. Ukraine 21 years ago to please zapadentsev (in the broad sense of this concept) the ruling shobla of corrupt QMSs, such as Kravchuk and their bastards, put a pose in ETHU. So it is still WICK, spread her legs, and she extended her arms for the convenience and quality of the process. And they have NENKA with its people, as they want and whoever wants. And to all these creatures that led the former USSR to this, this situation is high.
  12. sashka
    sashka 5 September 2013 09: 24 New
    +5
    Let's immediately determine that a foreign state with a legally elected president and government bodies that considers us enemies of a "fraternal republic" cannot be. And enough is already worn with them like capricious children. Where did they want and whom they chose, let them tear their forelocks .. What do we so stubbornly want from them? Loyalty, adequacy? Well, they don’t have it, well, it’s not good. Let the famine continue, maybe brains will appear .. Tired of it already. Let’s decide already and don’t peck our brains .. If you want or want problems, you will get them in full. Maybe also with a makeweight about fagots ..
    1. IRBIS
      IRBIS 5 September 2013 09: 43 New
      +5
      Quote: Sasha
      There can be no "fraternal republic".

      "+" !!! Hundred times! Personally, I realized long ago that all statements about some kind of "brotherhood" are absurd. The "fraternal" people seized the "squares" with full lungs and now they will not breathe the same air with us. It's just that we have some kind of "kindred cretinism" - we consider everyone to be "brothers - sisters" and other "relatives", but "relatives" have long been defined and are building goat muzzles. We are told who we are and what we are. But we still continue to call for unity. Maybe it's enough to humiliate and persuade?
      1. shark
        shark 5 September 2013 18: 39 New
        +2
        I absolutely agree with you. We are not washed-up Asians, but they are "great Ukrainians" who are the founders of everything in the world. And it doesn't matter that they hunchback for a thousand or two hryvnias, but we live quite well and live quietly. that this is because of the gas (which, by the way, we have to share with them for free, because during the union, many Ukrainians laid the pipeline, and indeed they are all geologists without exception)) Everything, annoying, annoying. let them rejoice. Enough brothers and sisters .. We do not have them. More precisely, our brother is the nuclear cruiser Peter the Great, and our sister is the rocket Satan. That's all.
  13. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 5 September 2013 09: 28 New
    +3
    When leaders do not have brains, they are ready to PR, and PR on anything, the main thing is to correctly teach and emphasize everything.
  14. sigizmund472
    sigizmund472 5 September 2013 09: 46 New
    +4
    The current president of Ukraine does not have his own mind, so he decided to plagiarize. IRBIS has already said that it got hooked on the famine, or rather not.
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 02 New
      +5
      Moscow “destroyed Ukraine as such” - they are the most beloved among the “orange” bastards who have gone mad at the evil Russophobia in the ruling elite of modern Ukraine. However, the real facts of real history without any involvement of any ideology or bias completely refute this heinous lie. When the criminal leadership of Ukraine, for the sake of secession from the Soviet Union, together with the criminal leadership of Russia and Belarus destroyed the USSR, then at the time of independence Ukraine possessed a territory more than 22 times larger than the one with which Bogdan crawled to the Moscow Centralized State in 1654 Khmelnitsky. And the population was 70 times larger than during the times of B. Khmelnitsky. Not to mention the unprecedented economic, scientific and cultural heyday of Ukraine. If all this is "the destruction of Ukraine as such," so long live it!
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 5 September 2013 11: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: Vlad 1965
        The current president of Ukraine does not have his own mind, so he decided to plagiarize. IRBIS has already said that it got hooked on the famine, or rather not.


        stop it, someone has already written above that the political strategists are the same as were under Yushchenko, everything is worked out to the smallest detail, "buying up a man's tear", the opening of memorials, the laying of wreaths. The elections are coming soon, the electorate is needed, so the boys are scurrying around, no one wants to go to the bunk, and almost wink in Europe, almost affected, almost in NATO, Kuev integrators.
  15. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 5 September 2013 09: 47 New
    +6
    Ordinary people in Ukraine are already sick of politics if you try to talk with them about politics or wave their hand or send them away. The EU will not accept Ukraine, they themselves are not rich enough, the best option for them is to continue weak Ukraine, which will not be able to compete with the manufacturers of European countries, and that’s what they promise.
  16. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 5 September 2013 09: 48 New
    +3
    But in fact, it’s good, satisfying, and rich to live in mongrel, that is yushchuyu. But for the memory of posterity and history it is fraught. Shit they will be recorded without statute of limitations and without the right to rehabilitation, no, not legal, but human.
  17. ded_73
    ded_73 5 September 2013 09: 55 New
    -5
    The author, as always, "did not disappoint." In his unrestrained desire to "spit into eternity" articles of three years ago rise. Read the article again - everything is in a heap, the Holodomor, the Customs Union, the European Union. It’s interesting, what would Boval, whom I disrespect, write if Yanukovych announced Ukraine’s intentions to join the CU and all the same Decrees on the Day of National Remembrance? Would you jump out of your pants in one hundred percent support for the "correct course of the beloved President"? And don't give a damn about the memory of the victims. Millions of innocent people! For us, who are now living our comfortable life, it is hard to even imagine when your child, father, mother dies of hunger ...
    At the same time, nothing prevents either Russia or Kazakhstan at the state level to perpetuate the memory of the victims of this disaster in their own country. And that would be right ...
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 09: 59 New
      0
      ded_73
      You are a grandfather, do not press too much on emotions that are not supported by facts, for everything that you have been trying to get here, even with a stretch of the nose, can’t be taken for the truth.
      http://delostalina.ru/?p=199
      1. ded_73
        ded_73 5 September 2013 10: 12 New
        -1
        You Vladik, judging by the emotional passenger, can only be rude and you can, the link is your shit .. I have the same relation to the truth as you do to a well-educated and educated person.
        1. Vlad 1965
          Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 20 New
          +1
          ded_73 (1)
          Read grandfather, below is the answer to your verbiage.
          All that you peck here, knocking out a tear, exactly corresponds to the FALSE that two Russophobes and anti-advisers, CONQUEST and MILES, have nipped.
          1. Vlad 1965
            Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 23 New
            +5
            When describing the "famine" (as well as reprisals) in the USSR, R. Conquest used "art" works of evil Russophobes and anti-advisers A. I. Solzhenitsyn, V. Astafiev, B. Mozhaev and V. Grossman, Ukrainian accomplices as alleged documentary sources. Nazis (then CIA agents) H. Kostyuk, D. Nightingale. Among the "sources" was the "work" of some American F. Bill, who in 1931-1933. worked at the Kharkov Tractor Plant. This opus was distinguished by the fact that it was his pass to freedom, since upon returning to the United States, he was sent to prison. The publishing house of an ardent anti-Soviet and a famous admirer of Hitler, an influential American media tycoon of the time, Hirst, invited him to write this anti-Soviet opus in exchange for freedom, which he did.
          2. ded_73
            ded_73 5 September 2013 10: 29 New
            -1
            Of course, evil amers and geyropeytsy are to blame for everything, and not guys like you in creaking leather jackets, with Mausers on their sides, taking the last grain. Such internationalists do not care who is in front of him, you have a great goal. Oh well...
            1. Vlad 1965
              Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 43 New
              +3
              ded_73 (1) UA
              Speaking on November 14, 2007 in front of the Knesset deputies, the head of the Ukrainian state emphasized the special kinship of the stories of the two nations, for which for a long time "the enemy was the evil of statelessness and bondage, which brought discord, injustice and enmity between brothers." According to the president, today this kinship has one more support - "it is the dedication to democracy, which our peoples have chosen and are implementing."

              WHEN you have no arguments, pull "well-well" more like be-bee
              In general, you have one goal for the Orange Plugavs, and you are moving towards it with leaps and bounds, reducing the population of Ukraine, in favor of those to whom your Yushchenko has been so worn out.
              1. Jogan-xnumx
                Jogan-xnumx 7 September 2013 02: 14 New
                +1
                100% ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++
            2. Misantrop
              Misantrop 5 September 2013 10: 47 New
              +3
              Quote: ded_73
              not like you guys in creaking leather jackets, with Mausers on their sides, picking up the last grain
              Tellingly, these guys, with rare exceptions, were LOCAL. First, they took away the grain, and then their "suffering" needs to be perpetuated. And pay, which is the main thing.
              What an idea - such and monuments. At least he should take what is in Kiev on the Maidan. Starving, and inside - the silhouette of the child she devoured. A worthy topic to perpetuate, to say nothing, the only civilized cannibals in the 20th century ... request
            3. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 5 September 2013 13: 10 New
              +3
              Quote: ded_73
              the evil Amers and the geyropeyts are to blame for everything, and not the guys like you in creaking leather jackets, with Mausers on their sides, taking the last grain.
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 5 September 2013 10: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: ded_73
          reference your shit ..
          And what exactly? The fact that it contains figures and facts? Or the fact that Brzezinski is designated there as he deserves it? An interesting logic: call the link shit .. yours and SAME POST to blame the opponent for lack of education and lack of education. And - unfounded, without at least the slightest justification. Although what kind of logic can be one who is proud of his kinship with cannibals ... request
          1. ded_73
            ded_73 5 September 2013 12: 12 New
            -1
            I will answer you with pleasure. Countrymen, after all. From the very beginning. As for the link ... You understand that the further these events go, the easier it is to operate with figures, facts and events, highlighting the accents for yourself. This is done with "success" by everyone - from nationalists to the Bolsheviks, pulling everyone in their direction (as with the monument on Mikhailovskaya Square - someone sees the tragedy of a generation that was not born, but someone ...). At the same time, the very fact of this terrible event is difficult to deny, at least for me. The first family of my grandfather (wife and four of his children) died in 1933 in a village in the Poltava region. The grandfather, who had passed the First World War by this time, was a strong master and in the fall of 1932 everything was swept out of him, and he was taken for resistance (which, however, actually saved him). I fully agree with you that they took their own, but please note that I am not talking about nationality anywhere. All these events were inspired by the class struggle, industrialization and so on ... It is clear that from the point of view of logistics, it is easier to pay for the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station turbines from the Ukraine and the Kuban - here it is, right next door. Coupled with bad weather, this led to such a monstrous tragedy. But you must admit that the horror of the whole situation is that we have never spared people. And the end has always justified the means and methods. Sorry, but for me personally, this is not acceptable. I guess what I will hear in my address after that, but I personally think so.
            By the nature of my service, I came across the affairs of those years. Take my word for it, it's awful. In cases of 10-12 pages, the testimony of two or three witnesses, the testimony of the "accused", the sentence is 3-5 years and confiscation. My grandfather went to dig the White Sea Canal. These are "rural counter-revolutionaries". The fists were just lists. So they beat out the most hard-working. I think you and other members of the forum are familiar with more than one such story.
            Surprisingly, such cases are still kept. The archives of the NKVD were one of the first to evacuate them during the war. It was not people who were saved, it was deeds. These cases and their defendants still have operative cards. This is in the "bezelaberny and liberal" Ukraine. I can imagine in what order it is in the FSB.
            As for the article itself, especially its author, I said it yesterday, and I say today that in the light of recent events such materials will be daily. Their purpose is clear and understandable. And the one who pours oil into the fire is a provocateur. Although I doubt very much that this man - Valery Boval, exists in general. According to my information, a person with such data in Dneprodzerzhinsk, as well as in Ukraine, is not registered.
            Hello to my native Crimea!
            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 12: 27 New
              0
              Quote: ded_73
              Valery fought, generally exists. According to my information, a person with such data in Dneprodzerzhinsk, as well as in Ukraine, is not registered.

              let's look. I myself am interested.
            2. Misantrop
              Misantrop 5 September 2013 14: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: ded_73
              fact itself it terrible event
              And now let’s clarify exactly what THIS is, hunger or famine. Hunger - yes, it was. No one denies it. And people were dying en masse. That's just to make from this a targeted strategy for the destruction of one people by another (which is exactly what is happening now thanks to the efforts of the new Ukrainian authorities) IMHO is more than criminal. By the way, the mass cannibalism noted then was not explained by a terrible lack of food (on the territory occupied by the Germans they lived no more satisfying, I assure you). And in besieged St. Petersburg, too, did not overeat. However, such facts were isolated. And mass cannibalism is explained by mental damage during ergot poisoning. The grain hidden from confiscation was stored without ventilation, drying, which is optimal for ergot. Grain is eaten - we get all these horrors that they are now trying to hang on the Bolsheviks ...
              Quote: ded_73
              Surprisingly, such cases are still kept. The NKVD archives were one of the first to evacuate them during the war.
              Imagine WHAT and in WHAT volumes the "gentlemen democrats" would now tell on this topic, if those cases had not survived in the war ... There, the account of those personally eaten by the Bolsheviks would go to many millions ...

              And another question: Why are "boys in creaky leather jackets" worse than "boys in embroidered shirts"? Those people did not count or regret, but THESE? Those - built a mighty country with agriculture, industry, science and an army, whose population grew, despite all the troubles. And these, what can they present, besides the stolen billions, as the result of 20 years of activity? Crushed science and education, destroyed industry, an army that you can't look at without tears, ruined medicine and social services. And 8 million population decline, without war, disasters and epidemics. A worthy result ... request
              And now they will drag the country into Europe, shaken by the constant crisis, giving the people to the dictates of other people's laws and monopolies, which will finally finish off the remnants of the already not too large population. And they will run away to eat what they have stolen ...
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 5 September 2013 10: 14 New
      +3
      Quote: ded_73
      At the same time, nothing prevents either Russia or Kazakhstan at the state level to perpetuate the memory of the victims of this disaster in their own country. And that would be right ..

      If in Russia to perpetuate the memory of all victims for its history at the state level, then we just have to constantly mourn someone or something because the history of the country is filled with such events. Wars, droughts, floods ... We remember everything, but we do not make a world tragedy out of it and do not use memory in petty-dominated interests.
      1. ded_73
        ded_73 5 September 2013 10: 19 New
        -14
        Well, then you Ivana, that they don’t remember kinship.
        1. IRBIS
          IRBIS 5 September 2013 11: 16 New
          +4
          Quote: ded_73
          Well, then you Ivana, that they don’t remember kinship.

          We all remember: the way Ukraine asked to enter Russia, and Mazepa, and much more. Just do not weave these memories to the relationship between peoples and do not build political capital on them.
          1. Curculum
            Curculum 5 September 2013 11: 38 New
            +4
            Quote: IRBIS
            how Ukraine asked to enter Russia

            Let me clarify: Ukraine as a state entity appeared in 1991 (all sorts of the UPR and others - in fact, existed minuscule), therefore, it never "asked to enter Russia", in this vein, the discussion was "about the acceptance of the Zaporizhzhya Army under the high sovereign hand ...
        2. shark
          shark 5 September 2013 18: 44 New
          +1
          We remember who gave Ukraine its entire eastern, southeastern and northeastern part. This is what we are not going to forget.
    3. sashka
      sashka 5 September 2013 10: 22 New
      +4
      Quote: ded_73
      At the same time, nothing prevents either Russia or Kazakhstan at the state level to perpetuate the memory of the victims of this disaster in their own country

      Georgia has already immortalized .. Ukraine is next .. "fucking brothers."
    4. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 September 2013 13: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: ded_73
      The author, as always, "did not disappoint."


      We look forward to receiving articles from you! Well, to understand how to write.
      1. ded_73
        ded_73 5 September 2013 13: 12 New
        0
        Alexei, I’m ready to send something that the site administration did not miss. Considered a collision on Boval.
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 13: 56 New
          0
          I would read too.
  18. fklj
    fklj 5 September 2013 10: 07 New
    +1
    We thought they were ours. And he turned out to be a Bandera ... Apparently all the "elite" of the Outskirts are working to the west
  19. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 10 New
    +1
    A LONG COMMENT, BUT IT IS WANT TO SPEND TIME ITS READING.
    The ZPAD has never, for the Slavs, been a "friend", an ENEMY using the entire arsenal, from direct invasion to blatant LIE, always.
    "The first violin in the Holodomor overture was played by a certain Robert Conquest, one of the two most widely read Western authors about the millions who died in the Soviet Union. He is best known for his books The Great Terror (1969) and The Harvest of Sorrow ( 1986) About those who died of hunger in Ukraine, about the Gulag (even Solzhenitsyn fell for his bait, writing about tens of millions of victims of Stalin's camps.) He wrote about the repressions, using as sources information from Ukrainians who ended up in emigration, living in the United States and belonging to to extreme right-wing parties, people who once collaborated with the Nazis. American researcher Christopher Simpson wrote in Blowback: "The government used these men and women as experts in propaganda and psychological warfare" (New York: Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1988, p. .398).
  20. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 12 New
    +3
    Conquest's own past was revealed by the Guardian on January 27, 1978 in an article that described him as a former agent of the British intelligence disinformation division, the Information Research Division (IRD). The IRD was established in 1947 (originally called the "Communist Information Bureau"). Its main task was to combat communist influence by producing and disseminating relevant information among politicians, journalists and other famous people, so that they influence public opinion in the right direction. IRD's activities both in the UK and abroad have been very multifaceted. When the IRD was formally disbanded in 1977 as a result of the discovery of its far-right connections, it turned out that in the UK alone, more than 100 of the most famous journalists had contact with the IRD, which regularly supplied them with material. Conquest's "work" was a contribution to the so-called "black history" of the Soviet Union. After he formally left the IRD, Conquest continued to write books commissioned by the secret services, using their own financial support. His book, The Great Terror, was actually a reworking of material he had written for the secret services. The book has been completed and published by IRD. The right to publish the book in America was bought by the Praeger press (executor of the CIA's orders). At one time, US President Ronald Reagan commissioned Conquest to write material for his presidential campaign in order to "prepare the American people for the Soviet invasion." The text was titled: “What to do when the Russians come? Survival Guide ". Noteworthy is the following saying from there: “It is not true that all people are people. Russians are not people. They are alien beings. "
  21. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 13 New
    +3
    For the book "Harvest of Sorrow" Conquest received a fee of 80 thousand dollars from the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). The same organization in 1986 paid for the shooting of the film "Harvest of Despair", where, as it were, by the way, material from the book of Conquest was used.

    "The truth," he said openly, "can be established exclusively in the form of rumors. The best, though not impeccable, source is rumors." When analyzing Conquest's book, it is easy to notice that in many cases he refers to fiction (Viktor Astafiev, Boris Mozhaev), samizdat (Vasily Grossman).

    Scientific dishonesty, falsifications both in the book of Conquest and in the film "The Harvest of Despair" were exposed by Canadian journalist Douglas Tottle in his book "Fake, Famine and Fascism: The Myth of the Ukrainian Genocide from Hitler to Harvard", published in Toronto in 1987. Tottle proved that the terrifying photographs of hungry children used by Conquest and the filmmakers were taken during the civil war and famine of 21, newsreels from the First World War, where an Austrian soldier weeps over a dead horse.
  22. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 13 New
    +4
    A typical example of exposed fraud is the use of Thomas Walker material as evidence. His "testimonies" of the famine in Ukraine were widely published in the pro-Nazi Hearst press in 1935. However, a big scandal arose when it turned out that journalist Thomas Walker was a felon Robert Grant, sentenced to 8 years and strangely disappeared from prison in Colorado. He decided to earn extra money on fakes about the USSR (the demand was great), somehow got a transit visa in England to move from Poland to Manchuria and spent five days in Moscow. When it became clear who he really was, and Grant was arrested again, at the trial he admitted that "his foot had never set foot in Ukraine."

    The scientific community did not stand aside either. A number of scientists, including the famous Sovietologists Arch Getty, Herbert Hertle, Oleg Arin, were outraged by Conquest's incompetent research. And Sovietologist Alexander Dallin, a professor at Stanford University, called Conquest's study "nonsense" and stated that there was no evidence that the famine "was deliberately directed against the Ukrainians." As they say, the Canadian scientists Davis and Wincroft “put the squeeze on” the disinformer: after the publication of their works, Conquest publicly rejected the theory of “genocide”. It seemed that the "Holodomor" case had been finished.
  23. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 14 New
    +2
    However, after several decades, his “works” were again in demand and, above all, in Ukraine, where the topic of the “Holodomor” has acquired the status of a political doctrine today. President Viktor Yushchenko awarded Robert Conquest the Order of Yaroslav the Wise of the V degree, and the same Holodomor was picked up by the same James Mays, a native of Muskogee, Oklahoma.

    In 1982, in a speech at an international conference in Israel on the Holocaust and the Genocide, an unknown graduate of the University of Michigan declared: “In order to centralize full power in the hands of Stalin, it was necessary to destroy the Ukrainian peasantry, the Ukrainian intelligentsia, the Ukrainian language, Ukrainian history in understanding people, destroy Ukraine as such. The calculation is very simple and extremely primitive: there is no people, respectively - there is no separate country, and as a result there are no problems. ” Why, in order to gain political power, to destroy an entire nation with its history in addition, Mace did not substantiate. But he was noticed. He became a professor at the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard University.
  24. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 15 New
    +3
    In 1983-1984 after the 50th anniversary of the tragedy in all major cities of the USA and Canada, where there are large communities of Ukrainians, monuments to the “victims of the Russian (or Moscow) famine” began to grow like mushrooms after rain.

    On March 21, 1984, a bill was introduced in the US Senate to create a Congressional Commission to investigate the Ukrainian famine. Convincing senators to vote for the bill, Congressman D. Roth claimed that the Ukrainians "were destroyed for political reasons and only because they were what they were." On October 4, 1984, Senator Bill Bradley “attached” to the Financial Resolution the costs of the commission on Ukrainian hunger in the amount of 400 thousand dollars. Ronald Reagan signed the Financial Resolution on October 12, 1984. So, a commission was born in the US Congress, called, as indicated in the law, "to study the Ukrainian famine of 1932-1933 in order to spread knowledge about hunger around the world and to provide a better understanding of the Soviet system by the American public by identifying the role of the Soviets in it."
  25. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 16 New
    +2
    Two senators, four congressmen, three representatives of the executive branch and six representatives of the Ukrainian public were represented in the US Congress Committee on Ukrainian Famine. As you can see, very high-ranking and respectable people. But at the request of the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America and the organization "Americans in the protection of human rights in Ukraine", a little-known scientist James Mays was appointed its head.

    He worked in the commission as part of the so-called “Harvard Oral History Project” that had been launched earlier. That is, any oral evidence is recorded, processed, published and after that become official documents. Mace created the commission’s documents, which have since scattered around the world under the heading “US Congress Commission.”
  26. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 17 New
    +3
    The results of James Mays were printed in 1988 at the Washington State Printing House. Surprisingly, 80 percent of the certificates pass there with the note “Anonimna Zhіnka”, “Anonimnaya friends”, “Anonimny cholovik”, “Mariya N.” etc. Even more surprisingly, the commission of the US Congress stated, based on these allegations, that the famine of 1932-1933. is genocide in Ukraine ”(Day, October 27, 2005).

    But the American academic community did not appreciate Mace’s work in the Congress Commission again. Scientists felt that the historiography of the Cold War required revision, and addressing the problem of famine of 1932-1933, at least in the United States, was quite clearly associated with the ideological confrontation of Russia, which meant that it went beyond scientific knowledge. Mace called his opponents “Ukrainophobes” and “Stalinists”, after which he moved to Ukraine. In 1993, he accepted the citizenship of Ukraine, was the editor of the English-language versions of the Day newspaper and the Political Thought magazine, and also taught to death at the Kiev-Mohyla Academy.
  27. Gecko
    Gecko 5 September 2013 10: 17 New
    +3
    We also need to erect a monument to our victims of the famine in Russia, and all Ukrainian one-sided rotten propaganda will be blown away. Georgia must be presented for the famine and genocide, because at the head was a Georgian ...
  28. Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 10: 17 New
    +3
    In 2005, in two languages ​​- in Ukrainian and in English, the book “James Mays Day and Eternity” was published. The book consists of three main sections, one of which is dedicated to the recollections of him by Catherine Yushchenko - the wife of the former President of Ukraine.

    Another December 23, 2004, i.e. Before the third round of elections, Mrs. Chumachenko-Yushchenko said that after the election of the first lady, she would closely deal with the famine. She assured that she would pay special attention to the fact that Ukrainians knew and remembered the history of the famine of the thirties, the victims of which were many of her relatives

    Interestingly, in the list of files, during the period of her public service in the United States (1985-1988), in particular, in the Public Relations Office of the White House in Washington, there is also a file "Ukrainian Famine Commission - Public Delegates" (" Ukrainian Commission on Hunger - public delegates. "Permission to access these files is given (or not given) by one of the CIA departments"
  29. sdv68
    sdv68 5 September 2013 10: 18 New
    +4
    OK. We have "the bloody Bolsheviks staged a famine." And who, ssno, has built a similar famine in "civilized Europe", for example, in Poland. Or did the Bolsheviks sneak in there too?

    http://za.zubr.in.ua/2009/11/30/3776/

    1932 Polish newspaper "New hour":

    "In the Hutsul region, the number of starving farms reached 88,6% ... In March, about 40 villages of Kosivsky, 12 villages of Naddvirnyansky and 10 - of Kolomia counties went on a full hunger strike ... People swell from starvation and die on the go. Hunger in villages "Redundancies, Old Gvizdtsy, Ostrovitsy. Typhoid and tuberculosis quickly spread with hunger."

    1932 Lviv newspapers report that in the Carpathian region, the population of Western Ukraine lives in terrible poverty. There are villages in the Kalush Voivodeship where entire families die out of hunger. After the ban by the Polish government to engage in woodworking in a lean year, the Hutsuls did not have any means of subsistence. The Polish government did not provide any help to the starving.

    1932 Polish newspaper "Strength":

    "In Zdunska Wola, a peasant brought to the fair to sell his 18-year-old son, in order to save the rest of his family from starvation with the proceeds of the money. He asked for him only 50 zlotys."


    That's the question. Is it that Stalin made the peasant sell his son in the market as cattle? Or Stalin ordered the Polish government to "arrange a Holodomor" for the company?
  30. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 5 September 2013 10: 19 New
    0
    The Holodomor theme is a vivid example of the fact that half-truths are worse than lies. Famine at that time was not only in Ukraine, but also in Russia. In the Volga region, the Tambov region and in other regions, about which historians were silent. All this was a mass genocide, not of Ukrainians, but of all Slavs. And the Bolshevik leadership of ours was almost nonexistent.
    “In order to strengthen grain procurement, send for two decades: a) Comrade Molotov to Ukraine with a group of commanders. Kalmanovich, Sarkis, Markevich, Krenzel. "
  31. Sega
    Sega 5 September 2013 10: 26 New
    +5
    HOLODOMOR !!! GENOCIDE!!! And what is now in Ukraine ??? Is demography like after the war in 20 years not genocide? In the 30s, everyone, both Ukrainians and Russians, was starving. Let's "stir up" the topic of the SS Galicia division that killed people (like they fought with the Soviet regime) and ask for compensation .... Maybe it's enough to deal with nonsense? We are playing off, and you, as a schoolboy, are being carried on. Shame and disgrace, but like all adults and educated people. Also tell me that all the Bolsheviks Russians and the entire USSR imposed devastation, genocide and famine .... Or do you want to say that there were no members of the CPSU in Ukraine in the 30s and there were no Ukrainian Bolsheviks? Don't make people laugh. The Holodomor is a sucked provacation against the Slavic brothers.
  32. 23424636
    23424636 5 September 2013 10: 28 New
    +3
    Why did this famine appear - the West demanded loot for the equipment delivered to the construction sites of the five-year plan, than to pay? Of course, with grain, therefore, they even pulled out the seed stock: they walked with sharp probes and poked all the land in the gardens - they searched for hidden grain. Now in Ukraine there is a similar industrial production. The West is closed for him. The Chinese already have their own. Russia will close imports, And then Azarov spoke about the fences of grain. Ukraine should pay off the debt of Ukraine to the west: so wait for the guys to repeat the past.
    1. Valery 532
      Valery 532 5 September 2013 11: 09 New
      +2
      Damn ... How many cynical people have gathered here who not only do not want to know the history of their own country, but also go on a whack over innocent victims!
      As a child, my grandmother forbade me to walk past a house in the neighborhood. And she always looked after me if I was there. I didn’t understand, but she didn’t say why.
      Then the other neighbors told. In this house, BABKA ate furious from hunger ate her grandson!
      But his great-grandfather was dying like this: he lost consciousness, turned blue, swollen, his body became watery ...
      Command me to forget?
      By the way, it was a city where it was easier to survive. Konstantinovka Donetsk region.
      By the way, my father is from Kursk (nearby!). Although he was a kid, he responded like this: there was hunger, but the people did not die. It was possible to survive. But the Krasnodar Territory is almost the same.
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 12: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: Valery 532
        By the way, it was a city where it was easier to survive. Konstantinovka Donetsk region.

        Countryman.
        Similarly, the ancestors told.
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 5 September 2013 15: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Valery 532
        But the Krasnodar Territory is almost the same.

        So what? I live in the Krasnodar Territory. No one here screams about hunger, although everyone knows. You have forgiven Hitler for the destruction of millions, why can not you forgive the Jews the Holodomor?
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 5 September 2013 15: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Setrac
          You have forgiven Hitler for the destruction of millions, why can not you forgive the Jews the Holodomor?

          From this place in more detail ... When Ukraine (Ukrainians) cheto forgiven there Hitler? belay Maybe we also raised him to the rank of "holy hero"?
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 5 September 2013 16: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: Corneli
            From this place in more detail ... When Ukraine (Ukrainians) cheto there forgave Hitler? Maybe we also raised him to the rank of "holy hero"?

            Something about the "fraternal" German people, such a blizzard is not visible from the Ukrainian side! What's the matter? The State Department does not give money for this business? Or are you just afraid?
            You consider the famine in Ukraine separately from the famine in the rest of the USSR, so for losses in the Second World Claims separately present, destroyed cities, destroyed enterprises, millions killed, a hundred times more losses than from the so-called "Holodomor".
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 5 September 2013 17: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: Setrac
              Something about the "fraternal" German people, such a blizzard is not visible from the Ukrainian side! What's the matter?

              You have never heard of compensation payments from Germany? And what relation does the modern "brotherly" German people (with whom Russia is friends for Bole Ukraine, incidentally) have to the type of Ukraine / Ukrainians forgiveness of Hitler?
              Quote: Setrac
              What's the matter? The State Department does not give money for this business? Or are you just afraid?

              They paid compensation and apologized for the sins of the past, but do you need to inflate a butch? for this, contact Israel.
              Quote: Setrac
              You consider the famine in Ukraine separately from the famine in the rest of the USSR,

              So did Yusch and co. Based on their actions, attributing THEIR words to me is nonsense! Since I have a different opinion. As for Yanyk, I already posted a repose yet:
              "On April 26, 2010, during his visit to Strasbourg, Viktor Yanukovych told PACE that“ we believe it would be wrong, unfair to recognize the Holodomor as a fact of genocide against this or that nation. It was a tragedy, a common tragedy of states that were part of the USSR ""
              So your post, like this article, is a set of twisted stories and fantasies. hi
              1. regsSSSR
                regsSSSR 6 September 2013 03: 58 New
                0
                Goodnight hi

                Corneli
                So your post, like this article, is a set of twisted stories and fantasies.


                maybe but!
                However, this set of tales and fantasies in the photo is quite unambiguous, just like Yushchenko at one time was laying wine on the monument and something tells me that when he talked about the general tragedy of the famine of the USSR states, he forgot to mention it!
                (I didn’t see the video record of this speech to the so-called hostel; therefore, I can’t say this, and if I'm wrong, correct me hi )
  33. mazepa
    mazepa 5 September 2013 10: 53 New
    -3
    It is important to say the following:
    1. in 1931 there was a drought that affected the harvest of subsequent years.
    2. The USSR developed agriculture according to the residual principle, as a result of which a significant part of the crops was infected, there was a low efficiency of grain growing. Nevertheless, the USSR exported grain even in the drought of 1931 and during the famine of 1932-33.
    3. The quota of all grain harvested in the USSR for Ukraine during the Holodomor was 25%, despite the fact that back in 1930 it was 35%.
    4. Collectivization only exacerbated the problem.
    5. People really selected the latest.
    6. The USSR did not accept help from abroad, for example, from the organization of Ukrainians in the world.
    7. The majority of the people who died during the famine were Ukrainians; these were ethnic Ukrainian territories, into which, after the famine, people from the depths of the USSR were resettled. Therefore, this famine is called the genocide of the Ukrainian people.
    8. Therefore, Ukraine will never join the Muddy Union, where people not only do not recognize genocide, but also do not recognize the guilt of the USSR leadership on this topic, glorify Stalin. Still creating idols for themselves. They suffer from idiocy and megalomania, which immediately disappears when they encounter more powerful world powers, but here you can seize neighboring Ukraine culturally, economically and as a result replace history.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 5 September 2013 11: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: mazepa
      Most of the people who died during the famine were Ukrainians; these were ethnic Ukrainian territories, into which, after the famine, people from the depths of the USSR were resettled. Therefore, this famine is called the genocide of the Ukrainian people.

      In fact, Kazakhstan suffered the most during this famine. It is very difficult to call it "Ukrainian ethnic territory". However, try to prove that he was.
      1. mazepa
        mazepa 5 September 2013 11: 13 New
        -1
        The Kazakhs suffered greatly and their right to speak about the genocide of their people. Only there the famine was caused by the fact that, by the surname Goloshchekin, he took away almost all their cattle from them.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 5 September 2013 11: 35 New
          +1
          And the Belarusians and Russians, who also suffered from this famine, can we also talk about "genocide"?

          But here a huge question arises: to whom should one make a complaint? The Germans for Marx?
          1. mazepa
            mazepa 5 September 2013 11: 37 New
            -6
            This is your business.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 5 September 2013 11: 50 New
              +2
              Whose? We do not seem to isolate our private genocide from a common misfortune. You are trying in Jewish style. But the Israelis, as far as I remember, clearly indicated to you that there was only one genocide in the XNUMXth century. They are the owners of the know-how to isolate and receive material and political dividends from this.

              The powerful Armenian diaspora does not really succeed, but you generally have nothing to catch in this area.
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 5 September 2013 13: 30 New
                +5
                Lopatov

                You can’t argue with Mazepa, he’s all in worries - to whom to sell more expensive. wink
                1. MG42
                  MG42 5 September 2013 16: 51 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  You can’t argue with Mazepa, he’s all in worries - to whom to sell more expensive.

                  At user mazepa Chinese check box .. laughing
            2. Proud.
              Proud. 5 September 2013 16: 00 New
              +2
              Quote: mazepa
              This is your business.
              Well, I could not resist! YOU are right, this is Cosa Nostra.
          2. Corneli
            Corneli 5 September 2013 14: 58 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            And the Belarusians and Russians, who also suffered from this famine, can we also talk about "genocide"?

            I will answer you with a quote:
            "recognize the Holodomor as genocide factbut relatively one or another people, we believe it will be wrong, unfair. It was a tragedy, a general tragedy of the states that were part of the USSR"
            Victor Yanukovich. April 26, 2010. Speech at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, Strasbourg.
            P.S. 2 CONTRACTS Mr's article was spoiled, with ABSOLUTELY BAD fantasies! With the goal of driving the atmosphere. Ugh on such an author!
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 5 September 2013 13: 29 New
      +5
      Quote: mazepa
      USSR developed agriculture on the residual principle


      nonsense.

      Quote: mazepa
      Nevertheless, the USSR exported grain even in the drought of the 1931 of the year and during the famine of the 1932-33 of the years.


      lies.

      Quote: mazepa
      Collectivization only exacerbated the problem.


      Do not know - do not speak.

      Quote: mazepa
      Most of the people who died during the famine were Ukrainians; these were ethnic Ukrainian territories, into which, after the famine, people from the depths of the USSR were resettled. Therefore, this famine is called the genocide of the Ukrainian people.


      impudent lies.

      Quote: mazepa
      where people do not recognize the genocide, but do not recognize the guilt of the USSR leadership on this topic, glorify Stalin.


      Is Ukraine dealing with parades of SS veterans in Lviv!

      Quote: mazepa
      Still creating idols for themselves. Suffer from idiocy and megalomania


      But in Ukraine, everything is in order! It is enough to recall how Yushchenko celebrated the Battle of Poltava.

      Quote: mazepa
      Suffer from idiocy and megalomania, which immediately disappears when faced with more powerful world powers


      An example in the studio.

      Quote: mazepa
      but here in neighboring Ukraine you can push culturally, economically


      And what? Nat oligarchs have chosen such a fate for the country.
      Now Ukraine is a geopolitical mouse, the fate of which is played by strong countries.
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 13: 58 New
        -1
        Quote: Karlsonn

        Quote: mazepa
        Suffer from idiocy and megalomania, which immediately disappears when faced with more powerful world powers

        An example in the studio.

        Libya, Syria ... not?
    3. sdv68
      sdv68 5 September 2013 13: 40 New
      +2
      1. Drought, if my memory serves me, was nevertheless in the 32nd.
      2. No need to rave. At the beginning of the last century, they only traded in agricultural products. There were no 2 pipes then.
      3. Where the woods come from. Don’t share the link?
      4. If collectivization had been started a couple of years earlier, then there would be no 32–33 famine.
      5. And so it was. But this is actually rather an exception to the rule, for which the "expropriators" responded a little later.
      6. Three times HA. During the Volga Famine, it means it was accepted, but not in 32-33 ??? ))) Here I already wrote what was the general help to the starving Ukraine.
      7. "Lopatov" has already answered this question.
      8. For God's sake. Only yourself and make it worse. Since joining the WTO, I have heard Ukraine even imports lard. It's only the beginning. And if you still have to pay for oil / gas "in a European way" ???
      1. shark
        shark 5 September 2013 18: 59 New
        0
        And not only fat))) And also apples, peaches, onions and !!!! sunflower oil. Ukraine as a state did not take place. All the industrial achievements of Ukraine (the handful that exists) are based either on the industrial power of the USSR or on theft from Russia. (I consider the modernization of Mi-8, Mi-2 helicopters, tanks and armored personnel carriers, hovercraft, air defense systems to be theft from Russia its intellectual property) Nothing, absolutely new Ukraine has not produced. The era of relevance of this, still Soviet, armament and all, kaput will pass. How did kaput come to Ukrainian shipbuilding when the hulls laid down in the USSR ended in shipyards)))
    4. Proud.
      Proud. 5 September 2013 16: 09 New
      0
      Quote: mazepa
      Nevertheless, the USSR exported grain even in the drought of the 1931 of the year and during the famine of the 1932-33 of the years.
      Yes, but in smaller volumes. It was completely impossible to refuse. The report of the Conference of Wheat Exporting Countries, for 1933, shows: Exporters strictly controlled the observance of mutual agreements, therefore the figures cited are not in doubt. At the export rate set for the USSR of 50 million bushels (1 bushel = 28,6 kg), only 1932 million were exported in 17. For this, the Soviet delegation was literally scandalized with a demand to immediately restore supplies in accordance with the commitments made. But the obligations were never fulfilled. Compared to the previous year, wheat exports decreased significantly and, according to the London conference, amounted to 486 tons. If in 200 the USSR delivered only 1931 tons of flour through Turkey and Egypt, Palestine and the Rhodes and Cyprus islands, in 714 and later for three years such deliveries were not carried out at all. In 1932, our country for the first time in its history became one from the world's largest importers of food products and agricultural raw materials.
    5. Proud.
      Proud. 5 September 2013 16: 25 New
      0
      Quote: mazepa
      3. The quota of all grain harvested in the USSR for Ukraine during the Holodomor was 25%, while in 1930 35%
      Gross grain harvest in (in) Ukraine in 1930-33 years. I emphasize! This applies only to Ukraine! .30th year: Collected-1431,3. Passed (to the state) -487,5.31th year: Collected-1100,0. Completed-431,3.32 year: Collected-918,8. Commissioned-255,0.33 year: Collected-1412,5. Commissioned-317,0. Pay attention to the last two years.
      Quote: mazepa
      The USSR did not accept help from abroad, for example, from the organization of Ukrainians in the world

      Tell me where you can find this info. Source, preferably unbiased.
  34. sdv68
    sdv68 5 September 2013 11: 00 New
    +2
    At the beginning of the 30s, famine was in many European countries, but only in modern democratic Ukraine, the famine of the 30s was placed in the rank of national policy and was called "Holodomor". Those. on the famine, which killed millions, politicians make their own petty, petty political gesheft. Moreover, such sentiments are not only in Ukraine, but also in Russia. It was our "Duma" who did not doubt in the least, accepted the sharply overestimated number of victims of hunger. Those. from the terrible tragedy these Judas receive their 30 pieces of silver.

    Here many liberal-minded "citizens" scream that Ukraine "was left without help in these terrible years." Here's a little quote that questions their screams.
    “According to our estimates, based on an analysis of sources ... in 1933, in total, Ukraine received 501 thousand tons of grain in the form of food and seed loans ... Russian regions (without Kazakhstan) respectively received 900 thousand tons ... The extent of food resources received by Ukraine in 1933 is evidenced by the fact that during the famine of 1921-1922. all international aid to the starving in Soviet Russia, including five regions of Ukraine, amounted to 568 thousand tons ". (c) Kondrashin V.V. Famine of 1932-1933: the tragedy of the Russian village. - M.: ROSSPEN, 2008 - P.243.
    Incl. even in those terrible years, the starving regions were not left without help, and were not "left to die" of hunger "caused by the seized grain."

    In the summer of 1933, Georges Semenon visited Odessa and took a number of photographs. There is no point in spreading everything here, those who wish can see all of them here: http://ihistorian.livejournal.com/594489.html These are photographs of July 1933. Those. when, according to the local Yushchinkov / Yanukovychs, the Holodomor d.b. in full swing. Because before the harvest was not yet soon. Here are some photos:




    1. mazepa
      mazepa 5 September 2013 11: 17 New
      -4
      You are a half-witted person. The famine concerned the countryside, villages, small towns.
      1. sdv68
        sdv68 5 September 2013 13: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: mazepa
        You are a half-witted person.
        Do not be rude.
        Quote: mazepa
        The famine concerned the countryside, villages, small towns.
        How do you imagine it? How can you provide food for Odessa and make "small towns" starve? Just don’t sing about the seizure of bread over-measure. Take a look at this data http://ihistorian.livejournal.com/105992.html



        Hungry 1932 / 33g. it should be counted from harvesting in August 1932 to July 1933. I was not too lazy to calculate the decrease in exports of all four loaves in a hungry year compared to the same months of 1931, which I also recall was not fruitful. Here's what happened:


        August 1932 - exports decreased 20,8 times compared with August 1931

        September 1932 - a decrease of 2,9 times.

        October 1932 - a decrease of 4,5 times.

        November 1932 - a decrease of 2,2 times.

        December 1932 - a decrease of 2,7 times.

        January 1933 - a decrease of 3,9 times.

        February 1933 - a decrease of 9,7 times.

        March 1933 - a decrease of 4,5 times.

        April 1933 - a decrease of 11,8 times.

        May 1933 - a decrease of 14,9 times.

        June 1933 - a decrease of 31,7 times.

        July 1933 - a decrease of 162,6 times.
      2. shark
        shark 5 September 2013 19: 00 New
        0
        and who markets in the market? probably from Moscow suburbs brought fat ..
  35. sdv68
    sdv68 5 September 2013 11: 06 New
    +3
    Let's remember that 21-22, 32-33 and 46-47 years, which most of all worried about the Soviet regime, were also poor harvests. And, often, not only in Russia / USSR, but also in a number of European countries. That's just "there is a nuance."
    +21 - Volga famine. Food surplus is no longer there. There are no collective farms. NEP is. There is hunger.
    +32 - Collective farms have not yet earned normally. Millions of victims.

    And here. what happened in western Ukraine at that time

    +46 - Post-war crop failure. The collective farms coped well with their task, despite the post-war devastation, and the fact that in most cases they were forced to plow not on tractors (of which there were still few), but on themselves. As a result, the catastrophe of the early 20s and 30s was avoided. There was a famine, but it passed much milder than the previous two.

    In the dry residue we have. Almost permanent hunger in tsarist Russia, and three (and actually two) famines in 70 years of Soviet rule.
    1. mazepa
      mazepa 5 September 2013 11: 22 New
      -6
      Well, you generally read about the hunger in the Republic of Ingushetia, what else is permanent, you look at the numbers how many died under the advice of people and how many in the Republic of Ingushetia, and what about homosexuals in the Republic of Ingushetia, many homosoveticus do not take into account the epidemic.
      As for the 21-22 year. -The devastation created by such bandits, who are now considered rebels in Syria, are the same delinquent thugs who generally had no idea how to rule the country. And what is the NEP?
      Semi-literate statements.
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 12: 14 New
        +1
        mazepa CN
        Illiterate, when you write something, yourself showing a dysfunction of the understanding of what is written, do not try to blame others.
        "As for the 21-22 years. -The devastation created by such bandits who are now considered insurgents in Syria" This can be written by an absolutely illiterate person who does not know history.
        "dilettantes" - who did not know how to govern the country, uh-huh, then where did the country come from that broke the neck of HITLER, if it was ruled by ignoramuses?
        "What is the NEP? 2-despite the fact that the NEP policy, by the time it was terminated, did not contribute to the development of the country, and if you are an amateur in this, not pecking at the clav.
        "Little grammar utterances." - mazepa, a vain attempt to slander History, are really of little interest, since they are absolutely illiterate.
        Confirmation by the link- http://ijkl.ru/a197
        this is how the Russian village lived, in which, by the year 17, 80% of the country's population lived.
      2. sdv68
        sdv68 5 September 2013 13: 29 New
        +3
        Read. And you are not visible. Recall that RI had the highest infant mortality rate among European countries, and mainly from hunger. Read the classics. But what a certain Count Leo Tolstoy writes in his novel "Sunday" 1899


        And here are the others. T.S. more documentary evidence.

        “In 1872, the first Samara famine broke out, hitting exactly that province, which until that time was considered the richest granary of Russia. And after the famine of 1891, covering a huge area in 29 provinces, the lower Volga region constantly suffers from hunger: during the XX century. Samara province went on hunger strike 8 times, Saratov 9. Over the past thirty years, the largest hunger strikes date back to 1880 (the Lower Volga region, part of the lakeside [168] and Novorossiysk provinces) and to 1885 (Novorossia and part of the non-black earth provinces from Kaluga to Pskov); then after the famine of 1891 came the famine of 1892 in the central and southeastern provinces, hunger strikes in 1897 and 98. approximately in the same area; in the XX century. famine of 1901 in 17 provinces of the center, south and east, hunger strike in 1905 (22 provinces, including four non-black earth ones, Pskov, Novgorod, Vitebsk, Kostroma), which opened a series of hunger strikes: 1906, 1907, 1908 and 1911 ... (mostly eastern, central provinces, Novorossiya) "[169] .(F. A. Brockhaus and I. A. Efron, 1913. Stb.41.)
  36. Sega
    Sega 5 September 2013 11: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: mazepa
    Therefore, Ukraine will never join the Muddy Union, where people not only do not recognize the genocide, but also do not recognize the guilt of the USSR leadership on this topic, glorify Stalin. Still creating idols for themselves. They suffer from idiocy and megalomania, which immediately disappears when they encounter more powerful world powers, but here you can seize neighboring Ukraine culturally, economically and as a result replace history.

    Ukraine must join the "TRANSPARENT EU" and recognize the genocide of its people from 1991 to the present, as well as praise Nazism and curse the USSR. Here is another ardent supporter (mazepa) of playing off the Russian and Ukrainian peoples.
    Citizens !!! I urge everyone to universal example and unification. Until it's not too late. Stop stepping on the same rake. In our sandbox (Russia-Ukraine-Belarus) we will quickly restore order and deal with our troubles without help from outside
    1. mazepa
      mazepa 5 September 2013 11: 29 New
      -14
      Without outside help, people like you have already saved people during the Holodomor, have already saved the Kursk nuclear submarine. Half of the Kazakh ethnic group was also killed. I would rather become a Nazi than a communist. The difference between them is only 1, the Nazis did not kill their own. love immediately fall to extremes. Where do I play the nations off? Or where do I glorify Nazism? What rake to step on? We have one rake - the USSR. Will you put things in order faster? - We know your order, prop your neck and look at the ceiling during a famine - this is your order, red creatures. I do not play off peoples, but if my friend is a drug addict and does not want to admit it, then how will I help him. - If you choose the path of the USSR, then we are not on the path with you.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 5 September 2013 13: 42 New
        10
        Quote: mazepa
        I would rather become a Nazi than a Communist.


        Checkmate! good
        Comrades, a fascist climbed to us.

        Quote: mazepa
        The difference between them is only 1, the Nazis did not kill their own. loves immediately fall to extremes.


        Go back to school desk, Nazi dropout.
        ---- Ernst Thälmann (German: Ernst Thälmann; April 16 1886, Altona, Hamburg - August 18 1944, Buchenwald concentration camp) - the leader of the German Communists. Reichstag deputy from 1925 to 1933 year. One of Hitler's main political opponents .---

        Quote: mazepa
        We know your order, support your neck and look at the ceiling during a famine - this is your order, red critters.


        And we know your order, as we remember the banderlogs in the service of the Germans burned Belarusian villages.

        Quote: mazepa
        If you choose the path of the USSR, then you and I are not on the path.


        You and I are not on the way.

        in the photo: In occupied Kiev. The SS men rummage around in the things executed, not paying attention to the photographer (“yours!”), In the Babiy Yar tract, presumably in a sandy quarry north of the modern metro station Dorogozhichi. The photo was taken 10 days after the fall of Kiev by the German military photographer Johannes Höle, who was in the service of the 637-th propaganda company, which was part of the 6-th German army, which captured the capital of the Ukrainian SSR.

        Babi Yar is a tract in Kiev, which was notorious as a place of mass executions of civilians and prisoners of war carried out by German occupation forces. Here were shot 752 patient of the psychiatric hospital named after Ivan Pavlov, at least 40 thousand Jews, about 100 sailors of the Dnieper detachment of the Pinsk military flotilla, arrested partisans, political workers, underground workers, NKVD workers, 621 member of the OUN (faction of A. Melnik), at least five gypsy camps. According to various estimates, from 1941 1943 to 70 000 people were shot in Babyn Yar in 200 — 000.

        From September to the end of October 1941, executions were mainly carried out by mobile SS units (Einsatzgruppen and police units) with the assistance of the field gendarmerie and Wehrmacht units (454-I security division, 75-I and 299-I infantry divisions). From October 1941 until the end of September 1943, Babi Yar was the site of regular executions carried out by security police and SD in close cooperation with the military and civil authorities of Kiev.
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 5 September 2013 15: 28 New
          +4
          Good afternoon, Carlson! Oh, them, these mazeps! The only thing I fear is that after signing the agreement with the EU they will be allowed to openly hate everything Russian. They will even be encouraged. And one can forget about Russian television channels, books, cinema and various cultural ties with Russia in Ukraine. They will do everything to divide the people. Tools for this will appear new, European, proven. In addition to the already existing, purely Ukrainian. Everyone, even the most cowardly of all the cracks, will come out.
          1. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 15: 34 New
            -4
            senior citizen, do you associate all Russians with communists?
            1. Vlad 1965
              Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 51 New
              +3
              RAGULty do not confuse yourself with people, communists, to whom you owe your rotten life.
              However, this is just about you- "Ragul is easy to distinguish by the characteristic muzzle of the face (eyes on the bridge of the nose, a distorted disgruntled face, horns), by the dialect (“ I’m going to go to town and I’ll be going to kuluga early for fun on village ”) and by smell (the ragul do not know such a blessing of civilization as a deodorant).

              A rare ragul lives on the Internet, and if it does, then no further than local chat rooms or contacts, and in general, they have no money for the Internet. Is that at the expense of the company to sit while the chief turned away. "
              1. zmey_gadukin
                zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 16 New
                -5
                bgyg ... I make screenshots, Vlad, let's burn more
                we already have the whole team with your pearls laughs)))
            2. shark
              shark 5 September 2013 19: 02 New
              0
              well, the best part of them. In this he is right
      2. pensioner
        pensioner 5 September 2013 15: 19 New
        +3
        Quote: mazepa
        They also killed the gender of the Kazakh ethnic group.

        What is it like?? fool He understood what he said?
        Quote: mazepa
        I would rather become a Nazi than a Communist.
        Surprisingly: such a young man is already in a hurry at the cemetery ... They can even break up for Natsik even in Ukraine. Easily. Even now...
      3. chehywed
        chehywed 5 September 2013 20: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: mazepa
        The difference between them is only 1, the Nazis did not kill their own


        Night of long knives,Rem... doesn’t say anything? Well ... well, you can recover and remember.
        1. Vlad 1965
          Vlad 1965 6 September 2013 12: 36 New
          +3
          For me, this is how the Nazis are specially raised in Ukraine, these are all Svidomoites, neobanderovtsy and others.
          But this work will end very sadly for Ukraine itself.
  37. ed65b
    ed65b 5 September 2013 11: 22 New
    +3
    News from Ukraine resembles the bad program Dom-2. it's time to score and forget for 5 years what they generally are, let them boil in their feces. Then take a look - haven’t the Euro-asses been launched yet? Oh, everything is extinct?
    1. shark
      shark 5 September 2013 19: 03 New
      0
      Here it is.
  38. zmey_gadukin
    zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 11: 36 New
    -7
    Vlad 1965 is well versed in history, threw messages in his righteous anger ...
    only now this instance forgot that the people who remember are still alive. And while they are alive, no Vlad can distort or erase their memory.
    My grandmother is no longer alive, but I will remember her stories all my life, but your calculations based on ... hmm ... "research of modern authors" can be shoved into ...
    1. Curculum
      Curculum 5 September 2013 11: 49 New
      0
      Quote: zmey_gadukin
      My grandmother is no longer alive, but I will remember her stories all my life, but your calculations based on ... hmm ... "research of modern authors" can be shoved into ...

      Nobody bothers you to write a story based on the stories of your grandmother, but "L'esprit seul peut tout changer" (everything is decided by the mind alone).
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 12: 05 New
        -3
        Quote: Kurkul
        Nobody bothers you to write a story

        I'm not going to write history, but I hate whores "from the pen", rewriting it to the applause of the audience the same as themselves ...

        I’m not going to justify the actions of Yushchenko and Yanukovych, I think that all this butch with monuments and other things is nothing more than laundering budget money and PR on the bones. But to listen to nonsense about the fact that there was no hunger, and if there was, then from not the crop or the damned landowners - it is beyond my strength. However, you can certainly relate with humor to such scribblers ...
        1. Curculum
          Curculum 5 September 2013 12: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: zmey_gadukin
          i'm not going to write a story

          At least on this "thanks"
          Quote: zmey_gadukin
          but I hate whores "from the pen"

          To understand you more and as an example - name, please, not "whores" from the pen "".
          1. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 12: 24 New
            -1
            Quote: Kurkul
            At least on this "thanks"

            irony ... even in this case irony
            Quote: Kurkul
            To understand you more and as an example - name, please, not "whores" from the pen "

            what for? I wrote to you on what my knowledge is based on this issue. Do I need to subject the words of my loved ones to verification and start looking for authors who either refute my point of view or confirm? I have enough living witnesses.
            But you are shy, you need to find a "piece of paper" which will say that there was no hunger ... You found it. You are satisfied. You wave it like a flag, embarrassed by the bad in our history and stick out only good ... one-sidedness, however.
            1. Curculum
              Curculum 5 September 2013 12: 50 New
              0
              Quote: zmey_gadukin
              irony ... even in this case irony

              For me, your words should be a tragedy? Do not flatter yourself.
              Quote: zmey_gadukin
              and why?

              clear.
              Quote: zmey_gadukin
              I wrote to you on what my knowledge is based on this issue.

              If the historical knowledge of all was based on the stories of grandmothers, it would be a dead end to the development of civilization - do not you find?
              Quote: zmey_gadukin
              I have enough living witnesses.

              This alone may not be enough, why? Witness to the witness - discord.
              Quote: zmey_gadukin
              But you are shy, you need to find a "piece of paper" which will say that there was no hunger.

              There are documents, not "pieces of paper", on the basis of which conclusions are drawn and in which, by the way, there are eyewitness accounts. Therefore, personally I am not looking for "pieces of paper" denying the famine of those times. And where did you notice that I deny the existence of the hunger of these times? But I draw my conclusions on the basis of knowledge gained not only from the stories of grandmothers. Which I recommend to you. Then the one-sidedness will disappear, maybe.
              1. zmey_gadukin
                zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 13: 11 New
                -1
                Quote: Kurkul
                But I draw my conclusions on the basis of knowledge

                so let's agree that the knowledge of both yours and mine is composed of eyewitness accounts. Well, in our particular case, enough still living witnesses. And you do not find that according to their stories, there was still hunger. And the fault was not only crop failure and drought.
                Quote: Kurkul
                If the historical knowledge of all was based on the stories of grandmothers, it would be a dead end to the development of civilization - do not you find?

                I do not find. Not necessarily grandmothers. Enough of witnesses. Only in view of the fact that these events took place in the 30s of the last century, all these witnesses are now grandparents ...
                We’re not digging pyramids, right? What is worth talking to still living people?
                But there are ardent apologists for the scoop who will deny everything bad and stick out only the good.
                It is foolish, I think, not to notice those undoubted advantages that were during the alliance, but it is also stupid to deny the minuses.
                I hope you understand what I mean ...
                1. Curculum
                  Curculum 5 September 2013 13: 34 New
                  +1
                  Quote: zmey_gadukin
                  And you do not find that according to their stories, there was still hunger.

                  Quote: zmey_gadukin
                  Enough of witnesses. Only in view of the fact that these events took place in the 30s of the last century, all these witnesses are now grandparents.

                  You are not attentive to my posts, so I quote:
                  Quote: Kurkul
                  There are documents, not "pieces of paper", on the basis of which conclusions are drawn and in which, by the way, eyewitness accounts.

                  Quote: zmey_gadukin
                  It is foolish, I think, not to notice those undoubted advantages that were during the alliance, but it is also stupid to deny the minuses.

                  As far as I think, the question is not in the plane of the pluses / minuses of the USSR, but in the perversion of the historical events of the USSR era by the politicum of individual subjects of the modern interstate structure. Which, by the way, ends with one demand - give the dough, the positive "experience" of Israel does not give anyone peace ...
                  1. zmey_gadukin
                    zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 13: 44 New
                    0
                    Quote: Kurkul
                    You are not attentive to my posts, so I quote:

                    I read everything) and what is a "document"? And what is it based on?
                    On the documented eyewitness accounts. Or not?

                    Quote: Kurkul
                    Which, by the way, ends with one requirement - give the dough

                    Well, if from this point of view, then the Ukrainian rulers are sinful ... then perhaps I agree with you.

                    Quote: Kurkul
                    and in the distortion of historical events of the era of the USSR

                    so the whole debate about where there is truth. And she is in the middle. I think so.
                    1. Curculum
                      Curculum 5 September 2013 14: 23 New
                      +2
                      Quote: zmey_gadukin
                      and what is a "document"? And what is it based on?

                      Well, you know, you could find something like that in a search engine, but in short, "document" comes from the Latin "documentum", which means "evidence" or "proof". But you are missing (intentionally or not - not the point) one detail: I pointed to "documents" - plural. It is clear that it also includes "documented eyewitness accounts."
                      After all, certain conclusions can be made only on the basis of a combination of various documents and studies, and not only on the basis of eyewitness accounts. This is what distinguishes effective Historians, recognized by the academic world, from all Bebiks and Grushevsky. But, unfortunately, many politicians do not care deeply about documentary historical research, for them the goal is different. The easiest thing is to post pictures from other events, create a certain "kipish" and sip under this loot. But such rot will not work ...
                      1. zmey_gadukin
                        zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 14: 58 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Kurkul
                        After all, certain conclusions can be drawn only on the basis of a combination of various documents and studies.

                        No, everything is true in your words, only here is the dilemma: an eyewitness says that he was suffocating from hunger, because the grain was requisitioned, and some Vlad, 1965, says that the results of the research show that there was plenty of everything in Ukraine, and hunger is the invention of Bendera. Well, and who in this case to believe? I understand the words of eyewitnesses. But the stubborn vladikami got it into their heads at the courses of young political workers differently. And therefore this donkey screams like a victim. And yelling for eleven years already ...
                      2. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 5 September 2013 15: 19 New
                        +2
                        Quote: zmey_gadukin
                        only here is the dilemma: An eyewitness says that he was suffocating from hunger, because the grain was requisitioned, and some ...
                        ... the scientist, having conducted research on the remains of the deceased at that time in Ukraine, proves with facts that the remains have signs of ergot poisoning (which was the cause of death). Grain stored in compliance with the technology did not have ergot. Conclusion? Buried part of the grain, then gobbled up and ... poisoned request
                      3. zmey_gadukin
                        zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 15: 30 New
                        -3
                        buried in greed? Or whatever they’ve taken?
                        Misanthrope, there is no need to assent to people who hate Ukraine ... be higher than them.
                      4. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 5 September 2013 16: 06 New
                        +1
                        Quote: zmey_gadukin
                        people who hate Ukraine.
                        belay
                        Quote: zmey_gadukin
                        buried in greed? Or whatever they’ve taken?
                        Most likely - this is the first option. I came across information that searches with seizures began exactly when mass poisonings went and figured out their cause. They were SAVED, but now it’s not profitable to write such a thing ... request
                        I DO NOT BELIEVE those who say that you can gobble up YOUR OWN CHILD from hunger. Such hunger simply DOES NOT HAPPEN. My relatives in Crimea went through a famine under the Germans. They ate bark from trees, acorns, grass, they reached extreme exhaustion, but there are their children ... And those who compose such an abomination ABOUT THE OWN TRAINERS declare that they LOVE UKRAINE? Goebbels is now in the grave crying with envy
                      5. Vlad 1965
                        Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 16: 13 New
                        +1
                        Misantrop
                        You are right, and it is precisely all of these Cornelia, number grandfathers, and there are faithful Goebbels disciples, he would have been pleased with them, for the terry propaganda of Russophobia and the extreme lie about those events, taken from any conquests and other lies.
                      6. Corneli
                        Corneli 5 September 2013 16: 13 New
                        -4
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        I DO NOT BELIEVE those who say that you can gobble up YOUR OWN CHILD from hunger. Such hunger simply DOES NOT HAPPEN. My relatives in Crimea went through a famine under the Germans. They ate bark from trees, acorns, grass, they reached extreme exhaustion, but there are their children ... And those who compose such an abomination ABOUT THE OWN TRAINERS declare that they LOVE UKRAINE?

                        Believe it or not, your business ... To me personally, back in 70-80, my great-grandmother talked about this (cannibalism during the famine of the Kiev region), and then there were no topics about the "famine", and the USSR
                      7. Vlad 1965
                        Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 16: 30 New
                        +1
                        Oh, we got to great-grandmothers, and why not immediately to PROSCHUR, those who, as they say, drove dinosaurs7
                        http://politicon1.at.ua/forum/34-827-2
                        refute, if you can, prababkin the carrier of gossip and rumors.
                      8. Corneli
                        Corneli 5 September 2013 16: 44 New
                        0
                        Quote: Vlad 1965
                        Oh, we got to great-grandmothers, and why not immediately to PROSCHUR, those who, as they say, drove dinosaurs7
                        http://politicon1.at.ua/forum/34-827-2
                        refute, if you can, prababkin the carrier of gossip and rumors

                        Why should I refute some scribblers? I wrote what it was, I don’t see the point of not believing my great-grandmother.
                        Firstly, she, my beloved grandson, didn’t have a lie.
                        Secondly, it was under the USSR, and not in the light of "how the Russian komunyaki famine", and I asked her to tell about the war .. there are all sorts of difficulties, so I told her.
                        Thirdly, maybe you, Vlad, don’t believe your grandparents, but I believe and love them.
                        In the fourth, my great-grandmother (the kingdom of her heaven) plowed for the good of the Motherland (USSR) for 50 years and plowed like you didn’t dream of an Internet balabol in a nightmare, and for her it was a normal, ordinary life.
                        So, you do not need to touch my PROSCHUROV, you are far from them and what they have done, including for Russia.
                    2. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 5 September 2013 16: 38 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Corneli
                      As far back as 70-80, I personally had my great-grandmother about this (cannibalism during the famine of Kiev region)
                      It is clear that it is easier for a Ukrainian to believe in a relative-cannibal than in the fact that Moscow did not spread rot on his ancestors ... request
                      Quote: zmey_gadukin
                      But about salvation from poisoning

                      Very funny, yeah. Google "ergotism" will make it even funnier
                    3. Corneli
                      Corneli 5 September 2013 16: 55 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      It is clear that it is easier for a Ukrainian to believe in a relative-cannibal than in the fact that Moscow did not spread rot on his ancestors ... request

                      Where did I write what I think or my great-grandmother said / believed "that my ancestors Moscow spread rot "? wassat
                      I wrote about the facts of cannibalism in the Kiev region, in the villages, during the famine of the 30s, to your "I do not believe that this could be." And to pull by the ears, to my post "famine" topic and like my accusations of this "genocide of Moscow" is not necessary!
                    4. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 5 September 2013 17: 21 New
                      0
                      Quote: Corneli
                      I wrote about the facts of cannibalism in the Kiev region, in the villages, during the famine of the 30s, to your "I do not believe that this could be."
                      Well, read about ergot, it's not so difficult. Galucenogen, comparable to LSD in effectiveness (not counting even a bunch of filthy effects). There you will find the clue to cannibalism. FROM HUNGER, such things do not happen, but from mental disorders amid hunger - Yes, easily, and yet it can not be.
                      I'm not saying that this was notI'm trying to explain the reason for this fact... Or do you insist that it is the Ukrainians who are capable of devouring anyone if the refrigerator is empty? Is this a feature of the genotype or something else? All other groups of the population who fell into the conditions of SEVERE hunger, but did not have bread contaminated with ergot, similar cases of mass cannibalism were not noted, including among Ukrainians, by the way (which is strange, right?). So what is the reason that the "commissars" took away the food? Or the fact that ergot is not able to pay bills for claims?
                    5. Corneli
                      Corneli 5 September 2013 17: 34 New
                      0
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      There you will find the clue to cannibalism. FROM HUNGER, such things do not happen, but from mental disorders against the background of hunger - yes, easily, and even this can not be.

                      If you remove the topic from the hunger of the 30s, have you ever heard of cases of cannibalism? Well, there, on uninhabited islands, during the siege of cities (I do not mean the cannibal tribe), or is ergot also to blame for all these cases?
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      So what is the reason that the "commissars" took away the food? Or the fact that ergot is not able to pay bills on claims?

                      I, and many others, do not submit "claims" to anyone. One should turn to Yushchenko and his team of researchers for "claims", this is their trick. In general, I see no point in further dispute ... Since, I did not argue WHY he was (hunger and cannibalism), or WHO is to blame for this, but simply replied to your post with "I DO NOT BELIEVE." It's strange that you took it with hostility
                    6. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 5 September 2013 17: 51 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Corneli
                      If you remove the topic from the hunger of the 30s, have you ever heard of cases of cannibalism? Well, there, on uninhabited islands, during the siege of cities (I do not mean the cannibal tribe), or is ergot also to blame for all these cases?
                      I did not think that the previous post would "travel" so far ...
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      the mass cannibalism noted then was not explained by a terrible lack of food (in the territories occupied by the Germans they lived no more satisfying, I assure you). And in besieged St. Petersburg, too, did not overeat. though similar facts were isolated. And mass cannibalism is due to mental damage in case of ergot poisoning.
                      And isolated cases of cannibalism are explained just not by hunger. Spike disorder, or extreme numbing of a person who does not care what exactly to eat
                      Quote: Corneli
                      just replied to your post with "DO NOT BELIEVE"

                      And I exactly I do not believe. But not in the fact itself, but in the declared cause of the phenomenon. Fact - this is a fact, it took place, what does faith or disbelief have to do with it?
                    7. Corneli
                      Corneli 5 September 2013 20: 44 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      I did not think that the previous post would "travel" so far ...

                      I myself did not think ... answered one post ... it seems clear and understandable.
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      And isolated cases of cannibalism are explained just not by hunger. Spike disorder, or extreme numbing of a person who does not care what exactly to eat

                      MMM ... I did not discuss about "mass character" and of course I DO NOT COUNT cannibals !!! Normal people (IT'S BETTER FOR ME, IT'S BETTER TO HANDLE THAN YOUR CHILDREN TO EAT !!! Forgive God!)
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      But I don’t believe it. But not in the fact itself, but in the declared cause of the phenomenon. Fact - this is a fact, it took place, what does faith or disbelief have to do with it?

                      You read your first post (to which I replied) again ... Is there a fact of hunger? Is there a fact of cannibalism? And you did not mention the "reasons" (such as poisoning and glitches) in that comment ... they appeared in your future.
                      P.S. and again "delight" about the "successful" articles of Mr. Boval! ! The provocateur just remembered Pan Yushch's evil trick and stuck it to modern Ukraine and Yanyk ... and a mustache! Sho do not write back, immediately the Russian members of the forum have an association with Yusch and his company! Do not even try to understand what you wanted to say there, just the negative is translated (from Yusch to normal people)!
                      P.P.S. He broke it and the one who prints it (his snowstorm), just BEAUTIFUL !!! At this forum people (number) number 1 !!! How out of nothing, make srach, between nations !!!
        2. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 19 New
          -3
          Quote: Misantrop
          I DO NOT BELIEVE those who tell

          I do not believe that boval exists, for example ...
          but this does not change the essence.
          But about salvation from poisoning laughing ... Well, the Communists have to justify themselves somehow.
  39. Curculum
    Curculum 5 September 2013 16: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    only here is the dilemma: An eyewitness says that he was suffocating from hunger, because the grain was requisitioned

    Yes, quit - this is not a dilemma, because suffocating from hunger is simply not possible, even if diabetes has other symptoms.
    It is also impossible to eat your children from hunger - how is it? Regardless of my own condition (hungry, threatened with death, etc.), I personally am not something that would not gobble up the corpse of my own child, but it would not have occurred to me to kill him. And if someone had such a desire manifested in relation to my child, then I would have failed and without any remorse and other morality.
    What, in those days there were few other animals to devour? Or worms with frogs (for example) also glued fins from the Holodomor? Or does a person eat only cereals?
  40. zmey_gadukin
    zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 17: 46 New
    0
    it is clear that you have not read and heard of hunger, God forbid you never go hungry.
    and frogs, snakes, pigeons, cats, dogs ... they all ate. Or can you catch a lot of frogs and feed them a family? Let me remind you that 5-6 children at that time are the norm.
  41. Curculum
    Curculum 5 September 2013 18: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    it’s clear that you didn’t read or hear about hunger,

    You're in vain. In addition, I myself am from the Kirovograd region, my mother and relatives still live there (she does not want to leave because of the "settled life"). Therefore, in childhood, I also heard a lot of different stories. But that's what childhood is for, to listen. The rest, sorry for repeating: "L'esprit seul peut tout changer".
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    Or can you catch a lot of frogs and feed them a family?

    I gave you an example, don’t do so literally. But still - I can always feed, the main thing is desire. And if I look for a reason - hardly.
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    God forbid you never go hungry.

    Mutually.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 5 September 2013 15: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    But to listen to nonsense about the fact that there was no hunger, and if there was, then from not the crop or the damned landowners - it is beyond my strength.

    It is beyond your power to understand that history is written by order of the government and has nothing to do with the applause of the audience.
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    "whores" from the pen,

    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    the same as themselves ...

    And the same as yourself?
    1. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 15: 33 New
      -2
      Quote: Setrac
      that the story is written by order of the government

      as required in the case of Vladik

      Quote: Setrac
      And the same as yourself?

      Well, you know better.
      I somehow do not care who you think me is.
      I don’t even write custom rotten statues, but if I say something, I also think so. So I write for pleasure, and they are for the money. And who of us is a whore?
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 5 September 2013 16: 44 New
        0
        Quote: zmey_gadukin
        So I write for pleasure, and they are for the money. And who of us is a whore?

        Well, how do you make money for a living? Do you work somewhere?
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 17: 48 New
          0
          Of course) My work has nothing to do with "internet writing". It's just that my position allows.
          Of course, you understood what I had in mind in the previous comment, but for some reason you are trying to cut back on MY work, although it has nothing to do with this debate.
  • Vlad 1965
    Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 12: 30 New
    +2
    zmey_gadukin (2)
    Yes, I am well versed in History, and I also know very well, for that matter, the stories of my grandmother, about the deeds of any rabble, in relation to provoking hunger, in relation to rotting bread and in relation to theft with subsequent resale.
    and her stories, supported by documents, and not by references to your mythical grandmother, who in a nightmare is the same nightmare, forever settled in your mind that is not burdened with the mind.
    So wherever you keep your head, in the duplex, there and continue to keep it, just do not crawl out of the caches, with your turbidity.
    1. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 12: 54 New
      0
      )))))) Well, I did not expect anything from you but hysteria and insults.
      Of course, you can continue to shout about documents, etc., etc. Only all your documents can be faked in the same way, or you can simply not bother, but compose a tale of evil to eyewitnesses. Even ten years later, the Bolsheviks will begin to canonize and concoct icons ... I will look cool next to the holy Great Martyr Nicholas and the Holy Great Martyr Ulyanov-Lenin. ))) Well this is so ... retreat)

      And dear to you, I recommend at least a little to ignore the fact that you were driven into your bright and undoubtedly smart (!) Head, your communist teachers)
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 13: 16 New
        -2
        Your hysterical screams, at times resemble the beating of a herd of hornbills, so that it is zhovtoblakitny, learn history, and not the tales of Yushchenko and other Pharion, otherwise your next conversation will consist only of phrases such as mu mu and be ...
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 13: 54 New
          -3
          Well, you said a lot of smart thoughts. Of course, if you recognize the insults as clever thoughts, then you can’t argue with you. You are just a flash of thought! You need to take off your hat and bow.
          Of course, I understand that your feeling of frustration as a result of the collapse of your beloved scoop is great, but you must somehow control yourself and not carry nonsense about the "good Bolsheviks".
          Oh yes, I'm zhovtoblakytny from a herd of horned ... what to talk about with me? )))
          I’m only listening to Pharion. Well scream ...
          Quote: Vlad 1965
          Your hysterical screams

          Here you are right, only my hysteria is already from laughter from your "thoughts"
          1. Vlad 1965
            Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 14: 37 New
            +2
            zmey_gadukin (
            Ragul, I’m not interested in your tales from the crypt of Bandera-to refute what I said or sigizmund472, Karlsonn (4), you Natsik will not succeed.
            But here you have to answer for what has been done with Ukraine since the 90s.
            WHERE, raguli, delhi 12 million Ukrainians from 92 years?
            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 14: 49 New
              -1
              Shaw is Ragul? Vlad, write in Russian !!!
              there is no point in refuting you at all, because your links can be as fake as the existence itself was)
              1. Vlad 1965
                Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 14: 58 New
                +3
                One of the most difficult problems of an adequate population of Lviv is ragulism. Ragul is almost like. But it’s not necessarily Raguli, but Ruguli is always one hundred percent. But in fact, everything is a little more complicated ...
                The origin of the word is not reliably clarified. Not so old. Folk etymology claims that rogul or even rogul originated from horns that the first comers do not cut down upon arrival in the city. Less well-known is the version that the word appeared from a slingshot - a barrier that stood at the entrances of large cities until Western Ukraine joined the Ukrainian SSR. It is possible that came from the English "ragamuffin" - ragged or from "rogue" - a tramp.

                In fact, this simply means bullish.
                In short, the term Ragul is used as a rough / abusive description of an ordinary village man who came in from the Zapadenshchyna, but at the same time remains the same cattle that was on the reservations, retaining the same behavior in the city. Actually, this and its unlimited amount causes hatred among native Ukrainians who do not allow themselves such a crucifix ....
                The phenomenon of ragulism is unique to the western regions of Ukraine, in other areas it is replaced by the phenomenon of ordinary cattle.

                If you delve into the details, then raguli is the only nation that does not recognize its existence.
                A typical ragul (horn) is a provincial who grazed cows and geese, plowed on the field, all his ancestors did the same, and suddenly he ended up in Kiev (in the regional center).
                A distinctive feature of the behavior of Raguli is precisely the village-provincial behavior and traditions, which have no place in the city.
                Ragul speaks a quasi-Ukrainian dialect of Galician-Canadian surzhik (often far from literary) with Russian (fundamentally) and even foreigners (after all, does not know other languages), regularly goes to church (female ragul can bow to the church in a miniskirt, and you don’t understand that what they do) and celebrate all church holidays, without exception, and observe all fasts.
                In all public catering, regardless of “coolness”, the raguli chat loudly with a clear Canadian-Galician accent, actively interrupting each other. They listen to music from the phone in public transport at the full volume of the wheezy speakers of budget models, including dumb “funny jokes” recorded by the same racers on the phone’s recorder, and at the same time they laugh loudly in the most stupid places. They drive on broken ara tuners, cherry amulets or black nibs, not observing any rules and leveling up other cars when parking.
                1. Vlad 1965
                  Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 00 New
                  +1
                  Continuing the theme for local ragul.
                  Dressed in national clothes (especially on holidays), vehemently.
                  In conflict situations, the ragul is like an ordinary gopnik, all arguments are limited to threats and obscenities, but with the slightest physical impact or only the appearance of a lighter pistol runs away at first cosmic speed.
                  From early childhood, Ragul females are taught that the most important thing in life is to get married and sit on the neck of a husband, and not waste time on education and work.
                  That’s why a typical ragulikha gets married at 18 and gives birth at the same time, because marriage often takes place “on the fly”, and at the age of 21 she divorces, because she quickly bothers her “happy” husband, after which she quickly, decisively searches for the elderly “daddies” and moneybags, charming its rustic beauty.
                  Ruguli males are, first and foremost, a good owner (as befits a village), so he does not need to have an education, although the locksmith’s rank is sometimes still present.
                  Simple ragul works as a minibus driver or builder, progressive as an office plankton or anal slave in a call center.
                  1. zmey_gadukin
                    zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 15: 27 New
                    -2
                    Vlad, you are epic ...
                    By the way, why doesn't Vladik still have such a thing "(1)", for insults? Although it is no longer necessary (1), but somewhere (3)
                    1. Vlad 1965
                      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 41 New
                      +8
                      Ragulya, I just remembered how in January 95, they caught two ragulistic Svidomites who fought on the side of the Chechen separatists, oh, how he shouted, "brothers, don't kill, we are like you, oh just don't kill .." Who will believe Ragule, who killed three and wounded seven people in a day ?.
                      Do you know what the end was ragul?
                      Two brand new, sharp-smelling fresh paint, and smeared with the purest salidol F1 in the armhole of pants. They squeezed hard, but not for long.
                      The one that you are a ragul, think about what you are screaming about here.
                      For the insult ... so ragul, the text is not an insult in the list of rules, RAGUL, as an insult does not pass.
                      And no one will give you their Sivdomite, Bandera propaganda here, no one will give it. Learn it.
                      Euro-integrators, orange mold of Ukrainian politics deprived the people of the right to speak in a referendum-We are together with Russia.
                      Do you think you won?
                      Uh, no, ragul, you have already lost, and every day your last defeat is getting closer.
                    2. zmey_gadukin
                      zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 26 New
                      -5
                      fingers did not erase when typing? tell us more tales about how you valiantly stuffed F1 into your pants to some kind of ragul, maybe of course, stuffed it, but only in your brains affected by a complex form of mental disorder ...
                      Quote: Vlad 1965
                      We are with Russia.

                      Of course together, but you thought not?

                      You’ll have a nervous breakdown now, but I haven’t written anywhere that it’s against Russia or the Russians. This is your sick imagination. So really you should treat the psyche, instead of sitting on the forums. And then your writings pull on a very thick history in psychiatry))
                    3. Vlad 1965
                      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 16: 36 New
                      +1
                      Take care of yourself. At the same time try on armored trunks, it’s useful.
                    4. zmey_gadukin
                      zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 44 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Vlad 1965
                      Take care of yourself.

                      yes somehow I’m not complaining about life and health)
                      Moreover, laughter prolongs life, and you (and probably not just me) amuse you so much today that I will certainly live longer for a day))))
            2. ded_73
              ded_73 5 September 2013 15: 36 New
              -6
              You vadik all these references to these "research", then come on, and then you try to pass for a smart one, and you take it from the Internet. The same search engine g..a, like Boval. Or are you he?
              1. Vlad 1965
                Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 44 New
                +1
                You’ll go without reference, the main thing is that you understand, you are RAGULA, Russophobe and anti-Ukrainian, agitator, it’s easier the orange hamster on grants, refute that this is not so.
                Can you
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Vlad 1965
                Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 16: 18 New
                0
                Links to Bandera nonsense? And is this your nonsense that squeals and wriggles, who needs it, is it sick?
      2. pensioner
        pensioner 5 September 2013 15: 05 New
        +4
        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ++++++++++++++++++ hi good laughing Vlad !! Cool!!
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 5 September 2013 15: 14 New
          0
          Quote: Vlad 1965
          In short, the term Ragul is used as a rude / abusive description of an ordinary village man who came in from the West

          Quote: Corneli
          "Ragul is an analogue of the word" ", widely known in the Russian language.

          Quote: retired
          !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ++++++++++++++++++ hi good laughing Vlad !! Cool!!

          Just the level of a pensioner, delight from insults, and did not expect another ...
  • ded_73
    ded_73 5 September 2013 14: 07 New
    0
    "Well, sticking labels ... We will not give this to the monkeys" (c) We have a Vladik.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 5 September 2013 15: 09 New
        -1
        Quote: Vlad 1965
        Ragul, you have one label on your forehead-JUDAH.

        "Ragul is an analogue of the word" ", widely known in the Russian language.
        Passed on to insults? Nude ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 5 September 2013 15: 57 New
            +2
            Quote: Vlad 1965
            Did you understand?
            And that means that it’s clear to you who you really are, learn Russian, and not the Galician-Canadian Sobachev mov, for which Taras and Olesya would be alive if they would have driven you with an oak tree to the Dnieper delta, where they would have drowned in the floodplains.

            The fact that you are stupidly rude naturally understood. As for the languages ​​... I write, it seems, in Russian) But it is not up to you to speak to me or any other resident of Ukraine)
            1. Vlad 1965
              Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 16: 01 New
              0
              You don’t even bark at Russia, Russians and History, according to American patterns, learn it.
              1. Corneli
                Corneli 5 September 2013 16: 09 New
                -2
                Quote: Vlad 1965
                You don’t even bark at Russia, Russians and History, according to American patterns, learn it.

                Personally, I write) so with "barking" it's not for me, as with "American patterns". I have my own brains and a sensible mind, as well as my opinion. By the way, I didn’t write anything like a bad thing about “Russia, Russian and History (what are you talking about)”. The only exception is the productive policy of the Russian government towards my country in recent years. But this is not deception or assaults, but a statement of facts.
              2. Vlad 1965
                Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 16: 16 New
                +1
                There is no need to do "innocent physics" when you have already done your dirty work.
                Do you say the leadership of Russia? And the leadership of Ukraine, all these kuchma, yushchenko, what are you doing?
                How to turn Ukraine into Ruin, so do it yourself, and how to look for the culprits, is Russia and its leadership, and, on the whole, the whole people of Russia?
                That ugly face will not crack, to blame their sins on others?
              3. zmey_gadukin
                zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 46 New
                -2
                Quote: Vlad 1965
                is it Russia and its leadership, but in general the entire people of Russia?

                banal distortion
                Vladik, merge quietly, "mister sovramshi" (c)
          2. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 34 New
            -3
            vdadik, you wipe your eyes, and do not hysteria.
            nobody said anything about the Russians. Do not compose)
  • ded_73
    ded_73 5 September 2013 13: 58 New
    -1
    The Internet is a good thing, and you can be rude to grab and grab some tinsel. Come on Vladik, go on.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. ded_73
        ded_73 5 September 2013 15: 28 New
        -3
        Yes, Vladyka, drink a valerian, otherwise there will be enough apoplexy and the hemorrhoids will fall out. Take care of your health, mental first of all, and then suddenly a war, and you're tired ... fool
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 48 New
            0
            Quote: Vlad 1965
            we have enough health and strength to adopt your filthy throat

            Well, and I'm still waiting for direct threats)
            and here they are ...
            1. tilovaykrisa
              tilovaykrisa 5 September 2013 16: 54 New
              +2
              Chago then attacked the boy? And the truth Bendera?
              1. Vlad 1965
                Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 17: 10 New
                +1
                Already complaining about what to do with these 7
                WORDS are afraid, not to mention anything else.
                1. zmey_gadukin
                  zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 17: 50 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Vlad 1965
                  WORDS are afraid

                  But who is afraid of you then?
                  just have SITE RULES that you hardly read
            2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 5 September 2013 17: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: ded_73
      The Internet is a good thing, and you can be rude to grab and grab some tinsel. Come on Vladik, go on.

      There is an interesting joke about anonymity on the Internet.

      A question to President Putin in an Internet conference: "Would you like to answer anonymous questions?"
      Answer: "Dear user with ip: 217.168.225.195, operating system win xp, residing at the address: Moscow, Prospect Mira 7, apt. 48, Ivanov Vasily Petrovich": DO NOT fall.
    3. Apollo
      Apollo 5 September 2013 17: 09 New
      0
      I warn opponents without mentioning nicknames. The rules of VO strictly stipulate insults and threats against opponentsThose who don’t know, I advise you to read the VO rules. There will be no more warnings, only warnings will follow.
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 5 September 2013 17: 39 New
        0
        et, right, but also for the outright flood and flame, despite the "shoulder straps"
  • sigizmund472
    sigizmund472 5 September 2013 12: 19 New
    +5
    In August 1933, the New York Herald Tribune published an article by Ralph Barnes claiming that a million people died of starvation. Further, the figure grew by leaps and bounds. Duranty in the New York Times hinted that the death toll is at least 2 million. A day later, in the same newspaper, F. Burchella reported 4 million dead. Therefore, due to the falsity of the information and the biased coverage of the famine in these articles, foreign journalists were prohibited from traveling to the regions affected by the famine.
    In 1934 W. Chamberlin, who had time to visit Ukraine and the North Caucasus on the instructions of the editorial board, published the book "The Iron Age of Russia" in Boston. In it, he stated that the famine covered an area with a population of 60 million, and the number of victims was 3-4 million.
    A large-scale anti-Soviet campaign began on February 18, 1935 with the title of the first page in Chicago American: “6 million people died of starvation in the Soviet Union http://www.zlev.ru/105/105_10.htm

    The figure of the dead increased by 2 million in a day. And this boltology reigns to this day.
  • sergant89
    sergant89 5 September 2013 13: 52 New
    +3

    Ukraine offered to plant for denial of the Holocaust

    In Ukraine, proposed to introduce criminal liability for denial of the Holocaust. The corresponding bill, as reported by Comments, was registered in the Verkhovna Rada by opposition deputy Sergei Faermark.

    The document is an amendment to the Criminal Code, namely to Article 442, establishing liability for genocide. The paragraph of this article, which punishes public appeals for genocide, is proposed to be supplemented with a reference to the Holocaust.

    According to the new edition of the Criminal Code, if the bill is adopted, the punishment will be provided for including “the production or distribution of materials containing the justification or denial of the Holocaust or the distortion of information about its scale ... or the justification of the genocide of the Jewish people and other crimes against peace and security humanity committed during the Nazi regime during the Second World War. "

    The penalty for this will be up to five years in prison.

    The author of the bill, commenting on his initiative, refers to the increasing manifestations of anti-Semitism in Ukraine. Meanwhile, the President of the Jewish Council of Ukraine, Ilya Levitas, as Kommersant-Ukraine writes, believes that there is no need to adopt a law on responsibility for the Holocaust. “I have not heard that any politician has publicly denied the Holocaust. You have to be completely illiterate to deny it, ”he notes. According to the head of the council, manifestations of anti-Semitism in Ukraine are mostly domestic in nature.

    In the period of the Third Reich, about six million Jews were killed by German Nazis and their allies in European countries. The massacres were carried out in accordance with the program of the so-called "final solution of the Jewish question." Data on the number of victims of the Holocaust and evidence of genocide are recorded in the materials of the Nuremberg process.

    Holocaust deniers dispute the fact of the deliberate extermination of Jews by the Nazis, the number of victims of the genocide, and the existence of gas chambers. In a number of countries criminal liability is applied for denying the genocide of Jews.
    Let them show this to the western part of Ukraine with their monuments to the "liberators of the Ukrainians"
  • ed65b
    ed65b 5 September 2013 14: 06 New
    +4
    Something I do not understand the brothers from Ukraine? Was there a famine? yes there was. and there was famine in the Volga region, and there were many. And blaming the Russians is at least wild. Make claims against the Georgians. Yes, and in general then, there were many Ukrainians in power, it was you who were to blame for the Russian genocide. It’s you who the Ukrainians deliberately starved in Russia and it’s only you who are to blame for the death of our prisoners in the camps, since it’s no secret that the bulk of the guards were representatives of your glorious breed. How do you like this passage?
    1. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 14: 51 New
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      And blaming the Russians at least wildly

      So not Russian, but specifically the Bolshevik government. And how many there were NOT Russian, you yourself know.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 5 September 2013 15: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: zmey_gadukin
        specifically Bolshevik power. And how many there were NOT Russian, you yourself know.
        What about the loss of population of Ukraine over these 20 years? From 8 to 12 million people, a third of which are Russians. Is the current Ukrainian government ready to answer for genocide?
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 15: 36 New
          -3
          Quote: Misantrop
          From 8 to 12 million people, a third of which are Russians. Is the current Ukrainian government ready to answer for genocide?

          did they die of hunger? fool
          1. Vlad 1965
            Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 58 New
            0
            From your Svidomo nonsense, from drugs and alcohol, from hunger, including from banditry, do not want to answer for this, ragul?
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 5 September 2013 16: 02 New
              +1
              Quote: Vlad 1965
              From your Svidomo nonsense, from drugs and alcohol, from hunger, including from banditry, do not want to answer for this, ragul?

              Zaditsya to me Vlad is rapidly moving to a ban account for inappropriate insults)
              1. Vlad 1965
                Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 16: 11 New
                +1
                For rent all these Cornelia vipers and grandfathers, for sheer Russophobia, tend to fly out of the site, right?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. zmey_gadukin
                  zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 40 New
                  -5
                  Quote: Vlad 1965
                  for continuous Russophobia,

                  wise guy, find at least one of my comments with an insult to the Russians.
              2. zmey_gadukin
                zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 16: 35 New
                0
                Quote: Corneli
                Zaditsya to me Vlad is rapidly moving to a ban account for inappropriate insults)

                maybe they pay him for it? laughing

                or are the moderators sleeping?
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 5 September 2013 16: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: zmey_gadukin
            did they die of hunger?
            And from him as well. Left without work, livelihoods, deceived from their apartments, deprived of social and medical assistance. Or do they die from gluttony?
            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 5 September 2013 17: 52 New
              +1
              Misanthrope, don’t mess, ok? Half of you listed, quietly and calmly faded to Russia the same, to Europe, Canada ...
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 6 September 2013 10: 26 New
                +1
                Quote: zmey_gadukin
                Half of you listed, quietly and calmly faded to Russia the same, to Europe, Canada ...
                Yes, they left. And even most of them managed to obtain citizenship. Here is just a LAZHA in the fact that the absolute majority of those who left ... continue to be registered as citizens of Ukraine. Participate in censuses, vote in elections. How do you think, where are such unanimous percentages on the elections at the memory? And such a turnout percentage? Do they run to their mountains "to vote"? From all over the planet? If really ask, the majority of the "voters" will not even be able to indicate the addresses of the polling station, since they have never really been there. So it turns out that the main Crap - these are the same 42 million of its citizens actually living in Ukraine. Actual figures would drive the most rampant optimist into melancholy ... request
      2. sdv68
        sdv68 5 September 2013 18: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: zmey_gadukin
        So not Russian, but specifically the Bolshevik government. And how many there were NOT Russian, you yourself know.
        Did the Bolsheviks also sit in Poland? Or did you forget that the famine in 32-33 was incl. and in Western Ukraine?
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 5 September 2013 15: 19 New
      -3
      Quote: ed65b
      Something I do not understand the brothers from Ukraine? Was there a famine? yes there was. and there was famine in the Volga region, and there were many. And blaming the Russians is at least wild.

      And where does the accusation, at least now (under President Yanukovych)? He expressed his attitude to hunger back in 2010! And the article is simply provocative fantasies of Mr. Bowal, has nothing to do with reality (the conclusions themselves and the tone of the article)
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 56 New
        +1
        TRUTH EYES COLET?
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 5 September 2013 15: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Vlad 1965
          TRUTH EYES COLET?

          Prick her absence tongue
          1. Vlad 1965
            Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 59 New
            +2
            YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TRUTH, and the lies of Conquest, Mays, Yushchenko and other raguls are of little interest to anyone, except for the frank ones-RAGUL. You will find the etymology of the word.
  • NOBODY EXCEPT US
    NOBODY EXCEPT US 5 September 2013 15: 48 New
    +1
    UV !!! Finally I read the polemic, it’s certainly not nice to insult our neighbors, but they go too far, and in general there are 80 percent of such rogues and people live, all Moscow intelligentsia was evacuated to 41 and after the war these were filled with Moscow rogue .... And of course it is very bad to engage in insults due to lack of arguments in the dispute .......
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 15: 55 New
      +3
      This is not the Ukrainians here flood those whose breed to Ukraine and Ukrainians to attract, we must try very hard.
      These are those who always, at all times for Judas thirty, surrender everyone and everything, shoot in the back.
      But once caught, they immediately surrender all their ragul Svidomites, Bandera, there are plenty of examples of that since the time of the Great War, that during the last conflicts in the Caucasus, where representatives of the UNA-UNSO, these raguli fought against us, as part of the gangs.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 5 September 2013 18: 17 New
        +1
        Quote: Vlad 1965
        in the Caucasus, where representatives of UNA-UNSO

        Well, Vlad, we haven't touched it yet, but the card doesn't beat, joker. The Slavs also "distinguished themselves" in Georgia.
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 5 September 2013 19: 31 New
          0
          It was amusing that they beat there, after a conflict with the local bearded tractor, the books of their own brothers in arms in the holy war with damned mo.skaly were decided there.
        2. Vlad 1965
          Vlad 1965 6 September 2013 12: 46 New
          +1
          ed65b
          Yes, this question is still awaiting its assessment and prosecution of all this Nazi fraternity from UNA-UNSO and similar organizations, the sooner the better. For the infection of Nazism, the same UKRAINE, will lead to very sad consequences.
          Few here, out of their skin, shaking out Gladomor propagandists, think about the fact that from people like them they grow mankurt, which then, the Naglo-Saxon West, uses as cannon fodder, precedents in History, for such a development of the situation, manipulation of the Naglo-Saxons by the "elite" of the natives , enough.
          But for the Naglosaxon rulers and ideologists, everyone who is not a purebred Naglosax-native, with limited rights to the land where he lives.
          1. Vlad 1965
            Vlad 1965 6 September 2013 13: 03 New
            +2
            On Thursday, September 5, activists of the Ukrainian radical movement "Brotherhood" held a picket demanding to quickly begin a military operation against Syria. It is reported by the "New Region".

            The action took place at the building of the US Embassy in Kiev. According to the agency, seven people took part in it. They held the posters "Obama, Indulge, bombard!" (“Obama, do not slow down, bomb!”) And “Assad, breathe in the dust!” ("Assad, take a breath of sarin!").

            The organizer of the picket Vitaly Cherny, commenting on the idea of ​​the rally, said that the genocide of the local population was carried out in Syria. In this regard, he spoke out in support of “progressive world governments,” ready to launch a military operation that would help establish “peace and democracy” in Syria.

            The Brotherhood website also posted a statement in support of the attack on Syria. “If Americans and Europeans really want to take Syria, what's wrong with that?” - note the radicals, emphasizing the benefits of "European colonialism." - Dieu le vaux! “As His Holiness Pope Urban II said in such cases” (“Dieu le veut” / “This is what God wants” - the slogan under which the first crusade was proclaimed in the XI century - approx. Lenti.ru).
            This is what leads to, fooling people, with Nazi, Yusvidomisky and Neo-Bandera slogans and promises.
  • repytw
    repytw 5 September 2013 16: 18 New
    +1
    in Ukraine today there is no and is not expected about Russian politicians,


    In Ukraine, they exist, and quite serious about the Russian forces are the Communists and believers of the Russian Orthodox Church, but to unite them for one purpose and support, for this we need a feat, scrapping the system, political will, and especially in Russia, do we have such a leader, which will do it. The authorities will try to do it the old fashioned way, Izuit - they will ruin and then the beggars will be bought for cheap. This should not be done with fraternal people.
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 5 September 2013 16: 28 New
    +3
    It can be formulated as follows: whoever has the intellect looks to the future, and who doesn’t even have brains, he defiantly relies on crutches of the past, because the disabled person.
  • vlad.svargin
    vlad.svargin 5 September 2013 16: 37 New
    +3
    <<In Ukraine, the topic of the Holodomor, in the sense of the genocide of the Ukrainian people, has been raised at an official level again. It was such a concept that Goebbels first invested in it, and then Yushchenko. The current president is not yet ready to use such loud definitions, but he no longer considers the events of 1932-1933 to be the general hunger of the Soviet people.>>
    He himself, like most Ukrainians, knows history well, lived in the USSR. He well remembers from history the starving Volga region and other starving places of the USSR besides Ukraine. I just wanted to appeal to the conscience of today's leaders of Ukraine. For 22 years of "independence" in Ukraine (that is, during the years of your rule), about 12 million Ukrainians have died! This is almost three times more than the times of the "Holodomor",
    it is time to sue the Ukrainians against their leaders in the genocide of the Ukrainian people. The authorities keep quiet about this, it is profitable for them to "stick out" only in their own favor the trouble of the 30 years of the entire Soviet people.
    1. Windbreak
      Windbreak 5 September 2013 16: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: vlad.svargin
      For 22 years of "independence" in Ukraine (that is, during the years of your rule), about 12 million Ukrainians have died!
      6 million from whom they did not die, but simply left for other countries to earn money http://topwar.ru/32347-ekspert-za-22-goda-nezavisimosti-naselenie-ukrainy-sokrat
      ilos-na-celuyu-chehiyu.html
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 17: 02 New
        +1
        What do you say on these statistics?
        http://argumentua.com/stati/kak-taet-ukraina-ubyl-naseleniya-strany-v-1990-2012-

        godakh-infografika
        For two months of 2012, the population of Ukraine decreased by more than 30 thousand people. This was reported by the State Statistics Service.

        According to her, as of March 1, 2012, a total of 45 million 603 thousand 210 people officially lived in Ukraine.

        The number of newborns in January-February of this year amounted to 84 thousand 247 people, and the number of deaths - 118 thousand 738 people.

        By the way, earlier HSBC experts predicted that by 2050 Ukrainians will become less by another 9 million people. Thus, Ukraine was covered by a powerful demographic crisis, from which the country cannot get out from the beginning of the 90s.

        Recall that the UN was concerned about the demographic situation in Ukraine. Organization experts believe that Ukrainians are dying like flies.

        1. Corneli
          Corneli 5 September 2013 17: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: Vlad 1965
          http://argumentua.com/stati/kak-taet-ukraina-ubyl-naseleniya-strany-v-1990-2012-


          godakh-infografika

          I will say that "The requested page was not found." And, as for the decline in the population of Ukraine ... in the 90s, almost no children were born. More or less the birth rate has gone since 2002. Considering the aging and decline of the population born in the USSR and the 10-year-old pit of the 90s in Ukraine, this will be so for a long time (
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 5 September 2013 17: 28 New
            +2
            The requested page was not found.


            space 990-2012- godakh-infografika must be removed, everything works

            Quote: Corneli
            More or less fertility has gone since 2002 year.


            The population of Ukraine for five months was reduced by another 70 thousand people

            http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events/1581853-naselenie-ukrainy-za-pyat-mesyac
            ev-sokratilos-eshche-na-70-tysyach-chelovek

            in 25 years there will be only 30 millions of inhabitants in Ukraine.

            http://zn.ua/UKRAINE/sociolog-predskazal-sokraschenie-naseleniya-ukrainy-do-30-m
            illionov-122143_.html

            such things, fellow countryman
            1. Vlad 1965
              Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 17: 51 New
              +1
              And they will write off all these zhovtoblitnye on the machinations of the Communists and Russia, it's so easy to find the enemy ...
              Especially when such moods are generously fed by all the familiar forces, as the naval officers said, the English woman crap.
      2. seller trucks
        seller trucks 5 September 2013 17: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Burel
        6 million from whom they did not die, but simply left for other countries to earn money


        of 6 millions who left 2 / 3 irretrievable losses. I’m not at all, I won’t return to your impoverished trash. There are many of them.
  • kind
    kind 5 September 2013 17: 27 New
    +2
    Yanukovych and the topic of the famine in Ukraine: the government is different - the ideology is the same

    The same Ukrainian rake, part-3 fool
  • ROA
    ROA 5 September 2013 17: 45 New
    -6
    The famine was, and this is a crime of the Communists. Only Ukraine is the legal successor of the Ukrainian SSR, even if they pay compensation.
    1. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 5 September 2013 17: 48 New
      +2
      The abbreviation-ROA, is it like an icon for the Nazis-OWN?
      Quickly you find each other, that zhovtoblakitnye that Vlasov ...
    2. sdv68
      sdv68 5 September 2013 18: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: ROA
      The famine was, and this is a crime of the Communists.


      I have already quoted citations from Polish newspapers in 32. Do not tell me, were there also communists in Poland? Or maybe it was Stalin who gave the command to arrange hunger in the territory of Western Ukraine?
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 5 September 2013 19: 12 New
      +2
      Quote: ROA
      The famine was, and this is a crime of the Communists. Only Ukraine is the legal successor of the Ukrainian SSR, even if they pay compensation.

      The indicated famine - a consequence of the wrong system of production, accumulation and distribution of food - the communists inherited this system from the tsarist government, in which the famine was permanent.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 5 September 2013 17: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: ROA
    The famine was, and this is a crime of the Communists. Only Ukraine is the legal successor of the Ukrainian SSR, even if they pay compensation.

    Famine was in those years not only in the USSR but also in Europe and America.
    In nete there is an article of an American, from those years with a photo. so he described there how the United States destroyed products in a landfill, because selling them was not profitable because of the low price. And so the people did not pick up, the police drove away. The Communists certainly would not have thought of such garbage ...
  • Druid
    Druid 5 September 2013 19: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Cooper
    The Holodomor, really a tragedy and genocide indeed. Not a coincidence but a purposeful policy of the Bolsheviks. Not only that they took all the bread, but also cordons were put out so that people could not leave their villages. What else can I call it ???????
    The genocide of their own people.
    It’s just that people are different, one will not forgive one for his grandfather, or he will not forget his memory, he does not know the other grave overgrown with weeds.
    What does a pro-Russian or non-pro-Russian policy have to do with it, what has human really lost? They killed people in packs - it’s grief, because there was no war and elements, and do not forget, just like in the same Russia in many of its regions, and in other countries of the former Soviet republics. The fact that Russia does not want to remember this is a personal matter for the Russians, although for me personally, just humanly, it is wild.
    1. Glory333
      Glory333 5 September 2013 23: 49 New
      0
      Genocides of your own people do not happen, in the United States at about the same time, there was actually a genocide of the American people, the so-called "Great Depression" I suspect that the organizers of the genocide in the USA and the USSR were the same.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 5 September 2013 20: 17 New
    0
    It's great that "move your ass" towards the geyvropy, the harlot "we embroider both ours, and here and there we will dance" is over. Specificity.