Military Review

Turkish authorities are finishing off the army. More than a hundred officers accused of a coup 16-year-old

65

Turkey entered yesterday into a new stage in the struggle of the country's Islamist authorities with the army, which is considered the guarantor of the secular system. More than a hundred officers were brought to trial on charges of displacing the first government of Islamists in 1997, led by Nejmettin Erbakan, the predecessor and mentor of incumbent Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who had already initiated several demonstration trials of the military. The current one is intended to be another blow by the authorities on the ambitions of the generals.


Ankara's criminal court began yesterday a hearing on the "February 28 case." On this day in 1997, the military issued an ultimatum to the government of Necmettin Erbakan - the first Turkish Prime Minister of Islamist, the leader of the Welfare Party. The coup was called “postmodern” - unlike the previous ones, it was bloodless (the Erbakan government resigned, barely hearing the rumble of armored vehicles on the streets of Ankara), and no military dictatorship was established in the country.

However, the 1997 events of the year dealt a serious blow to the Turkish Islamists, who had to go underground. Erdogan himself, who served as mayor of Istanbul, was sentenced to several months in prison. The followers of Erbakan managed to regain their positions only five years later - in 2002, when Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party (AKP) won the elections by a large margin.

The prosecution brought the first accusations of involvement in the 1997 events of the year to the military last year, after 15 years after the coup itself. One of the main suspects in the case is the retired General Ismail Hakky Qaradaya, who served as Chief of the General Staff. He faces life imprisonment.

The current process is another stage in the struggle of the Islamist authorities of Turkey with the army. From the moment when the criminal court in Istanbul issued a harsh sentence 250 defendants, most of whom are military, less than a month. They were all accused of collaborating with the Ergenekon terrorist organization involved in the attempted coup in 2003 - shortly after the AKP came to power (see Kommersant of August 6). A year ago, the court sentenced to imprisonment from 13 to 20 years over 300 military, who were accused of preparing a series of terrorist attacks in order to destabilize the situation in the country - this case went into history as "Sledgehammer" (see "b" from 24 September 2012 of the year).
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  1. Xroft
    Xroft 3 September 2013 10: 48 New
    11
    The army is the backbone of the independence of any state, it is not surprising that Turkey is now engaged in such a ... war as Syria ... I do not think that the old generals would have fallen on the Alawites.
    1. Orel
      Orel 3 September 2013 11: 19 New
      +6
      More than a hundred officers were brought to trial on charges of dismissing the first Islamist government in 1997, led by Necmettin Erbakan, the predecessor and mentor of current Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan


      Islamism is a serious threat to the development of Turkey. Ataturk back in the 20s of the last century banned wearing hijabs in state institutions and schools in Turkey. This was the first step to ensure that Turkey began to develop into a modern, strong state. If Erdogan wants to transfer back to donkeys and live like in Afghanistan, then he is very sorry, and most of all the Turkish people should regret ... Becoming the new Suleiman the Magnificent and the Sultan Mehmedov Erdogan is not destined to, no matter how he dreams about it ...
    2. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 3 September 2013 12: 03 New
      +8
      Witch-hunt is a sign of fear of losing power!
    3. xetai9977
      xetai9977 3 September 2013 12: 30 New
      +3
      For the uninitiated: the Turkish authorities do not finish off the army, the Turkish authorities wean some circles in the generals from the bad habit of changing governments at their own discretion. For decades, the general himself decided whether to let the government (which the people chose) work or not. saying a misunderstanding in a radical way. God forbid each government takes care of the army as Turkey does. In recent years, large-scale modernization of equipment has been carried out, modern armored vehicles, helicopters, and drones of national development are being prepared for release. The officers there are truly respected and privileged "estate".
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 3 September 2013 14: 47 New
        +3
        Quote: xetai9977
        : the Turkish authorities do not finish off the army, the Turkish authorities wean some circles in the generals from the harmful habit of changing governments at their discretion.


        It is intelligible. I remember in the imperial era, guardsmen changed kings in the Russian Federation, only in 1825 their teeth were broken off.
    4. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 3 September 2013 12: 46 New
      +3
      Apparently they do not want to fight, so they are planted.
    5. Ruslan_F38
      Ruslan_F38 3 September 2013 12: 47 New
      +7
      The leadership of the Turkish army needs to dismiss the fascist, sick-headed Islamic radical Erdogan and his government and abandon military operations against Syria and help militants. Today's Turkey, claiming to be a secular state, has now become a police state conducting repressions not only against the army command, but also against its people.
  2. Canep
    Canep 3 September 2013 10: 51 New
    +2
    It smells like political purges in Turkey, such as ours in the 37th.
    1. nokki
      nokki 3 September 2013 10: 55 New
      +1
      As Volodya Vysotsky sang: "It vaguely reminds me of the Indo-Pakistani incident! .." good
      1. GRDS
        GRDS 3 September 2013 11: 00 New
        -7
        What is he for you Volodya ???
        Vladimir Semenovich !!!
        1. vlad_pr
          vlad_pr 3 September 2013 12: 00 New
          +5
          What a fright Vladimir Semyonovich !!!? As a poet - mediocre (read poems, as a prose writer - sucks (read prose), an actor - average. Yes, I agree, mediocre verses on bardic-subbranch music and manner of performance gave a killer effect. But that's all, and all the more so. Especially work in the theater on Taganka also created a super romantic aura of “fighter, herald, almost conscience” of various liberal protest-minded Moscow and other semi-intellectual parties. But, “Don't make yourself an idol,” he was ill with this. In times when there was no Internet, we on the connection between the EC, they distilled his poems, books, made inserts into programs recorded on magnetic tapes, printed them on hefty ATsPUs on the night shift, so that the bosses and the first department would not notice, exchanged, etc. However, by the middle of the seventies, many had sobering (apparently matured, accepted by someone, not by someone. As they say - “Big is seen in the distance.” Try to look at, apparently, your reverence for Vysotsky under critical them angle. Sincerely.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 3 September 2013 12: 40 New
            +3
            I’m Volodya. When I was growing up, he guided me, helped me, and instructed me in some ways in life as a brother. Wasn’t I looking at Metallica? He taught honor and helped with force and explained about the homeland. And who writes him to the liberals ... give me my plus, inadvertently hastily set, "thinker"! Vali with his sobering ...
            1. omsbon
              omsbon 3 September 2013 13: 03 New
              +6
              Something I did not understand, where is Erdogan with political purges, and where is Vysotsky?
              What are you guys talking about?
            2. vlad_pr
              vlad_pr 3 September 2013 13: 19 New
              -1
              Dear Mikhail3, We all, regardless of whether we have revised our views on a particular phenomenon, both natural and in the field of the human spirit, or vice versa, have firmly established our opinions completely and irrevocably, we have the right to our own judgment. My opinion is that yours can radically differ, but that’s the platform of utterances (forum). But your "thinker"! Vali with his "sobering up" ... in my opinion it is not entirely correct. We didn’t drank any kulesh from one pot, and we did not share the water from the flask. We will be mutually polite. Sincerely.
              PS. You can take your plus, I have no grievances and complaints.
              Sincerely.
          2. GRDS
            GRDS 3 September 2013 13: 00 New
            -1
            "vlad_pr RU Today, 12:00 ↑

            What a fright Vladimir Semyonovich !!!? As a poet - mediocre (read poems, as a prose writer - sucks (read prose), an actor - average. Yes, I agree, mediocre verses on bardic-subbranch music and manner of performance gave a killer effect. But that's all, and all the more so. Especially work in the theater on Taganka also created a super romantic aura of “fighter, herald, almost conscience” of various liberal protest-minded Moscow and other semi-intellectual parties. But, “Don't make yourself an idol,” he was ill with this. In times when there was no Internet, we on the connection between the EC, they distilled his poems, books, made inserts into programs recorded on magnetic tapes, printed them on hefty ATsPUs on the night shift, so that the bosses and the first department would not notice, exchanged, etc. However, by the middle of the seventies, many had sobering (apparently matured, accepted by someone, not by someone. As they say - “Big is seen in the distance.” Try to look at, apparently, your reverence for Vysotsky under critical them angle. Yours faithfully."


            Respected!!!
            Songs of Vysotsky V.S. still relevant. Many listen to them, sing and quote, the example of Tokki. You personally, how did you distinguish yourself, what did you achieve to write about "mediocre verses"? Do you have better poems, music, prose? Do you gather halls, do you listen to millions in the country and abroad?
            This is a respected person in our country. On this - Vladimir Semenovich, and not the crony Volodya!
            1. vlad_pr
              vlad_pr 3 September 2013 13: 33 New
              +6
              Dear friends, indeed, something "went wrong" in the wrong place. The branch is about something else. I respect the opinion of everyone. And as for poetry and other things, I did not write, I have no talent for this. But as a design engineer, he did quite a lot. The combat systems developed by me and my subordinates are still in service. For this, I think this discussion is possible to end.
              Best regards
            2. Al shahini
              Al shahini 3 September 2013 15: 00 New
              +3
              What a fright Vladimir Semyonovich !!!? As a poet - mediocre (read poems, as a prose writer - sucks (read prose), an actor - average. Yes, I agree, mediocre verses on bardic-subbranch music and manner of performance gave a killer effect. But that's all. (C)
              ================================================== =======
              I think you missed something in such a social and artistic phenomenon as Vysotsky.

              And although they say that they do not argue about tastes, this is just the case. when you don’t need to argue.
          3. zart_arn
            zart_arn 3 September 2013 13: 51 New
            0
            What criteria do you measure the measure of talent of a poet, singer, actor?
            I’ll try to answer (not for you, for myself) - the criterion for the depth of talent - individual perception and there can be no other. For one idol, for the other - it sucks, and both are right! Therefore, we will leave an assessment of the degree of talent in our hearts.
          4. 1goose3
            1goose3 3 September 2013 18: 58 New
            +1
            What a fright Vladimir Semyonovich !!!?

            Let me disagree with your express analysis of the personality and work of Vladimir Semenovich Vysotsky. Apparently, complications after the “illness” are affecting, in addition, growing up after sobering leaves the same imprint. Sorry for the harshness. You can love or not love a person, in this case Vysotsky, but there are rules of courtesy and on the basis of them we turn to each other by name patronymic. Watch the program "Field of Miracles", where the leader addresses the crumbs of 4-5 years old by the name of the patronymic, thereby teaching both young and old people polite handling. You denied the right to be named by the middle name of Vysotsky. Unfortunately, in life, you probably have not met a teacher like Yakubovich. Regretfully.
          5. zennon
            zennon 3 September 2013 20: 19 New
            +1
            Like a poet - mediocre

            He is an outstanding poet! His poems are brilliant! Many professional writers and critics have recognized this.

            Weak to shoot? In the heels, they say, the soul has long gone?
            Patience, psychopaths and clicks!
            Poets walk heels on the blade of a knife
            And they cut their bare souls into the blood.

            The actor is so-so.
  3. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 3 September 2013 10: 53 New
    +2
    So Erdogan is seriously running into it and this is in anticipation of the war.
    He does not have time to strengthen his power with repression.
  4. yan
    yan 3 September 2013 10: 57 New
    +1
    And this is a good trend. In all countries of NATO, the state would be flooded with the army .... It’s a pity they just don’t know the history of the subjunctive mood
  5. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 3 September 2013 10: 57 New
    +6
    The longer Turkey will "finish off" the army, the easier it will be for its neighbors.
    1. Ruslan_F38
      Ruslan_F38 3 September 2013 12: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: serge-68-68
      The longer Turkey will "finish off" the army, the easier it will be for its neighbors.

      It will obviously be easier for Russia to pacify the imperial ambitions of the Erdogan clique once again - I think this moment is just around the corner.
  6. Cormorants
    Cormorants 3 September 2013 10: 59 New
    +4
    Something is not clean here, someone is stirring up water.
  7. a52333
    a52333 3 September 2013 11: 11 New
    +3
    Erdogan begins to "cook" a bad soup. On both sides are strong neighbors (Syria is now not up to this truth). The course towards Islamization is not supported by the people. His claim to leadership in the region is reinforced only by the United States. It’s not sweet for them now, I hope it will be worse, and in the future Erdogan may be without an ally, but surrounded by unfriendly neighbors + Kurds. No matter how he scald this brew.
  8. ed65b
    ed65b 3 September 2013 11: 17 New
    +2
    Erdogan looked at Egypt and made conclusions. he had already begun to take over the army. the general overslept the moment and will now pay in full. Well done.
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 3 September 2013 11: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: ed65b
      Erdogan, looked at Egypt and made conclusions

      I completely agree...
      Quote: ed65b
      Well done

      But the fact that Erdogan is well done, this is the grandmother in two said ...
      On the one hand, yes. Let the officer corps be woolly. The Turkish army, if it does not lose from this, it certainly will not win ...
      But on the other hand, Erdogan curtsies in the direction of adherents of radical Islam. Reverence is small, but still very unambiguous. Moreover, this is significant against the background of the events around Syria ...
      And one more thing - the army is sometimes the only real force that interferes with the establishment of sole (dictatorial) rule ... However, time will tell where Erdogan-effendi is aiming at. Could it be for the role of the new Ata-Turk? ..
      1. avg
        avg 3 September 2013 11: 59 New
        0
        Rather, the role of the new Khomen
  9. simmis
    simmis 3 September 2013 11: 21 New
    +4
    Erdogan digs the grave of Turkey.
    1. Grigorich 1962
      Grigorich 1962 3 September 2013 11: 25 New
      +5
      we wish him good luck in this field .... at the same time let him dig himself
      1. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 3 September 2013 17: 53 New
        +1
        There is someone to trick him into. For good always pay good laughing
    2. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 3 September 2013 17: 52 New
      0
      Hands itch to give him BSL laughing
  10. Alexandr73
    Alexandr73 3 September 2013 11: 28 New
    -2
    But what about the USA and the European Union. Why not condemn human rights violations in Turkey? Is this political persecution? Violation of liberal freedoms !!! Russia urgently needs to send troops to establish and plant Liberal Pido (democratic) freedoms and rights !!! This is DICTATURE !!!
  11. andrei332809
    andrei332809 3 September 2013 12: 44 New
    +3
    remove those who do not want to fight in Syria?
  12. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 3 September 2013 12: 46 New
    +1
    We need Turkey. Syria should become the gateway to the transnational transport corridor, and its important part should pass through the territory of Turkey. And there are two options for laying such a corridor - the western and ours.
    In the west it passes through the ravaged land - ours, Turkish and Syrian. The well-fed faces of the Americans look with contempt from the convoy cars at the poor natives ... And our option is that we lay it on our land and the lands of our esteemed neighbors. After that we get profit together - we are from our sector, the Syrians and Turks from ours. And it will be.
    But how it will be, which option will win ... We need to work. I do not believe that we cannot achieve the scenario we need in Turkey.
    1. zart_arn
      zart_arn 3 September 2013 13: 57 New
      +1
      What kind of transport corridor is ripening in your deeply reaching plans?
  13. Mobidic
    Mobidic 3 September 2013 13: 10 New
    +1
    Off-topic news

    Tuesday, September 3, 2013 13:00

    The Russian missile attack warning system recorded the launch of two ballistic missiles in the central part of the Mediterranean Sea. According to the Ministry of Defense, the rockets were fired towards the eastern part of the Mediterranean coast.

    http://www.tvc.ru/AllNews.aspx?id=49f8438e-8488-4758-8769-7aca1014fbd7

    And on TC Star this news.
    1. experienced
      experienced 3 September 2013 13: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Mobidic
      Tuesday, September 3, 2013, 13:00 The Russian missile attack warning system recorded the launch of two ballistic missiles in the central part of the Mediterranean Sea. According to the Ministry of Defense, the rockets were fired towards the eastern part of the Mediterranean coast.

      Well, considering that:
      “The start-up was discovered (at 10.16 Moscow time) by the military crew of a separate radio-technical center of the SPRN in Armavir,” the Ministry of Defense reported, RIA Novosti reports.

      Three hours, normal flight winked
      1. Kars
        Kars 3 September 2013 13: 24 New
        +5
        Quote: Mobidic
        http://www.tvc.ru/AllNews.aspx?id=49f8438e-8488-4758-8769-7aca1014fbd7


        Currently, there are five US Navy destroyers and one landing ship in the Mediterranean.

        None of them carry ballistic missiles.
        1. ultra
          ultra 3 September 2013 14: 36 New
          0
          Quote: Kars
          None of them carry ballistic missiles.

          What about submarines?
          1. experienced
            experienced 3 September 2013 14: 37 New
            +2
            Quote: ultra
            What about submarines?

            Everything has already become clear, the Jews frolic:
            The launches of the two ballistic missiles that the Russian missile attack warning system recorded were a test of Israeli targets for missile defense systems, the country's Defense Ministry said.


            “The launches in question were a test of the Anchor target missile, which is used to test missile defense systems,” the ministry said, RIA Novosti reports.
            1. Apollo
              Apollo 3 September 2013 14: 39 New
              +2
              Quote: seasoned
              Everything has already become clear, the Jews frolic:


              "professor and KO" belay
              1. experienced
                experienced 3 September 2013 14: 42 New
                +2
                Quote: Apollon
                "professor and KO"

                There, even without them, there are enough cranks, they are sitting on a powder keg and waving a torch. It seems to me that at first other countries should have informed about their launches, and only then started ...
                It's time to impose sanctions for such provocations. IMHO hi
                Armavir worked on 5
                1. Apollo
                  Apollo 3 September 2013 14: 48 New
                  +2
                  Quote: seasoned
                  Armavir worked on 5


                  plus forgot, and so everything is right.
                2. ed65b
                  ed65b 3 September 2013 16: 07 New
                  0
                  Quote: seasoned
                  Quote: Apollon
                  "professor and KO"

                  There, even without them, there are enough cranks, they are sitting on a powder keg and waving a torch. It seems to me that at first other countries should have informed about their launches, and only then started ...
                  It's time to impose sanctions for such provocations. IMHO hi
                  Armavir worked on 5

                  Checking our lice, follow or not follow Syria.
                3. tilovaykrisa
                  tilovaykrisa 3 September 2013 17: 56 New
                  +1
                  Something like this looks from the side, the bug is small and smelly. laughing
      2. Suhov
        Suhov 3 September 2013 13: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: seasoned
        Three hours, normal flight

        Three hours - normal flight! The mood is great! Can I hang myself?
        wassat
        1. experienced
          experienced 3 September 2013 13: 31 New
          +3
          Quote: Sukhov
          Three hours - normal flight! The mood is great! Can I hang myself?

          I mean, more than three hours ago, launches of ICBMs were recorded (as stated) and ... Where are they? Who launched the nuclear submarines of some kind, but by the time they have probably already made 2 turns around the Earth and ... request
          Sense of "bullet" on Syria ICBMs? Who needed this news? What do our smokers smoke in Armavir?
          Bugaga, svezhak
          A source: Missiles launched in the Mediterranean fell into the sea

          3 September 2013, 13: 34
          Two ballistic missiles launched by the Russian missile attack warning system fell into the sea, a source in Damascus said.


          Intrigue, ripen

          NATO checks missile launch information in the Mediterranean

          3 September 2013, 13: 24

          The North Atlantic Alliance (NATO) has begun checking information on the launch on Tuesday of two ballistic missiles in the Mediterranean Sea, transferred to the headquarters of the alliance.
          1. Bort radist
            Bort radist 3 September 2013 14: 01 New
            0
            It is reported that rockets fell into the sea. Many questions, they themselves fell or they were helped, didn’t they hurt anyone? Armavir probably knows where they flew and where they fell.
          2. ultra
            ultra 3 September 2013 14: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: seasoned
            What do our smokers smoke in Armavir?
            Bugaga, svezhak

            There was infa that the Jews from the United States "dabbled"! Allegedly targets for the missile defense system!
  14. Druid
    Druid 3 September 2013 13: 11 New
    +7
    Quote: xetai9977
    Turkish authorities do not finish off the army, Turkish authorities wean some circles in the generals from the harmful habit of changing governments at their discretion
    the only sensible in Turkey is its army and military-industrial complex.
    Quote: xetai9977
    For the uninitiated
    Turkish generals never established a military dictatorship and did not make coups in the interests of people from their ranks. The military dismissed the parliament and announced the next election in the event of a crisis or in the case of attempts to come to power by idiots as its current prime minister and president, and the same military made a mistake, believing that the period of controlled democracy ended and Turkey formed as a secular democratic state.

    For information. If it weren’t for the army, Turkey wouldn’t have existed for a long time, if it hadn’t for the army for Erdogan and especially for the elections he could have won, Erdogan would have been illiterate in some village, without medicine and what either right, not at all aware that he is TURK. Only the army and its natives, natives of military families, starting with Kemal Atatürk, were able to make Turkey a relatively modern state, and elementary - to revive the Turkish language, in the end it is the first in the self-identification of the people.
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 3 September 2013 13: 48 New
      +4
      Dear Druid! I always treated your comments with great respect. It seems that we did not understand each other correctly. I am more than convinced that the army was and is the guarantor of the security and territorial integrity of Turkey. And this cannot be denied that the government of this country is doing everything to modernize and support the army. At the same time, I am convinced that this is not the case when for example 70% of the country's population chooses a government whose worldview distracts its aspirations, and some general thinks differently and overthrows him, thereby rudely spitting on the opinion of the majority of the people. Yours faithfully...
      1. Al shahini
        Al shahini 3 September 2013 15: 10 New
        +1
        . At the same time, I am convinced that this is not the case when for example 70% of the country's population chooses a government whose worldview distracts its aspirations, and some general thinks differently and overthrows him, thereby rudely spitting on the opinion of the majority of the people. (with)
        ================================================== ===========
        Your logic is slim and flawless. As well as the characteristics of the place of the Turkish army in this state.

        However, are you sure that all 70% of the population who chose the Islamists really want to live in a society that the Islamists will build?
        Not excluded. that these generals / as befits strategists / see more and more of their compatriots.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. locman60
    locman60 3 September 2013 13: 50 New
    +2
    I have a matchmaker, a Tatar, the husband of a daughter, a Tatar ... I'm Russian by blood ...
    1. Suhov
      Suhov 3 September 2013 14: 31 New
      +2
      Mother is a geisha, father is a rickshaw, son is Moisha ...
      Eastern tragedy.
      wassat
  17. Black
    Black 3 September 2013 13: 56 New
    +2
    The title of the article is bullshit! The Turkish army is very strong and there is no and cannot be any “beating” and, all the more so, “finishing”!
    And the fact that Erdogan brings to the point of the army for the coup is right. For innocent words, the honored officers are doing “a goat face” for us.
    The country is developing at a tremendous pace, and Erdogan's merit is great. Islam - how the natsideya works.
  18. awg75
    awg75 3 September 2013 14: 22 New
    0
    who doesn’t wobble in Turkey will soon die out and another country will plunge into the Middle Ages .... that's what they need
    1. ultra
      ultra 3 September 2013 14: 40 New
      -1
      Quote: awg75
      another country plunges into the Middle Ages .... so they need

      Maybe of course they need it, but we definitely don’t need it! Otherwise, their democrat will have to ... disintegrate! laughing
    2. Black
      Black 3 September 2013 16: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: awg75
      who doesn’t wobble in Turkey will soon die out and another country will plunge into the Middle Ages .... that's what they need

      Yes, you quit! There is nothing of the kind there.
      In the summer I was there in my car (it’s hard, but I looked a lot not only in big cities, but also in villages, towns in central Turkey). There is no Islamic fanaticism there, quite a secular country, no one falls prostrate after hearing the muezzin. The Turkish women are almost completely tattooed (what a Wahhabism !!!),
      But there is general patriotism, everything is plowed like hell, they have no roads — we don’t dream of it !!, walked 4500 km and didn’t even see a kilometer of an unsettled road, the mountains all gnawed !!!, housing construction is going on at such a pace that 5-7 more years and they will all live in luxury apartments. And it is ubiquitous !!!
      White envy and annoyance for their super-rich country.
  19. ed65b
    ed65b 3 September 2013 16: 11 New
    +1
    I don’t think that the majority of Turks will joyfully grow their beards, will be wrapped in burqa and Allah Akbar will scream around the clock. In any case, not the urban population. Erdogan makes the European version of his country with Islamic mats and in Europe and the normal world, the army is always subordinate to the head of state. And in Turkey it was like in Africa. So he corrects the bias, why does he need a reckless general? Walk and look around?
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz 3 September 2013 17: 20 New
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      I don’t think that the majority of Turks will joyfully grow beards

      No one will grow a beard, eat such but very few, for us the Turks are also wild to see women in black burqa!
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 4 September 2013 10: 24 New
        0
        Quote: ayyildiz
        Quote: ed65b
        I don’t think that the majority of Turks will joyfully grow beards

        No one will grow a beard, eat such but very few, for us the Turks are also wild to see women in black burqa!

        Duck and I are about the same. Turks are a civilized and cheerful people, and there are enough freaks and obscurantists everywhere.
  20. Atash
    Atash 3 September 2013 16: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Vadivak
    guardsmen changed kings

    The guards themselves did not change the kings, would never dare, especially with the killing. Pavel and Peter 2 were removed by order and funding from London. The Decembrists were, it seems, from another opera, so it happened with them.
  21. Atash
    Atash 3 September 2013 16: 29 New
    0
    Quote: vlad_pr
    Like a poet - mediocre

    And Brodsky, and Shukshin, too mediocrity? They knowingly respected him. For people without artistic taste, he was just fashionable. He is a phenomenon in Russian art along with Pushkin. When you read Pushkin, do you understand why he is A. Pushkin? Or is it just fashionable for you?
    1. Black
      Black 3 September 2013 16: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Atash
      And Brodsky, and Shukshin, too mediocrity? They knowingly respected him.

      No need to pay attention to such "twists." Pompous idiots do not convince.
  22. Atash
    Atash 3 September 2013 16: 41 New
    0
    Erdogan is not a radical. He is in the position of traditional Islam, Sharia mosque. Radicals in Turkey were never given a chance to develop, even an ordinary mosque was pressed. Approximately, as in the USSR, religion was crushed so much that there was no question of any radicalism. At the same time, the state did not allow churches and mosques to disappear; in this regard, there was some kind of unfinished policy. This was a definite plus, at least the state was engaged in religion. Now, for example, the authorities have no idea what to do with religion, and the radical weeds are twigs, obscuring what the authorities should cultivate.
  23. Atash
    Atash 3 September 2013 16: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Al Shahini
    want to live in a society that the Islamists will build

    You do not find that this is already their personal-national internal affair, what will come of their choice? Western-style democracy is just a variant of state-public administration, not the fact that the same monarchy is worse. Does the army regulate the change of government? In itself, it does not contain anything bad in itself, if you do not look at it from the English parliament. Doesn't that suit the Turks now? It’s a business matter, let them try, and we, like the rest of the world, will see how this affects the effectiveness of public administration.
    1. 1goose3
      1goose3 3 September 2013 20: 43 New
      0
      It’s a business matter, let them try, and we, like the rest of the world, will see how this affects the effectiveness of public administration.

      The thing is of course the master, but annoying is that in the next apartment the owner is trying to make a chandelier from a land mine. what
  24. Atash
    Atash 3 September 2013 17: 15 New
    0
    Quote: Orel
    If Erdogan wants to transfer back to donkeys and live like in Afghanistan,

    And Saudi Arabia, a 100% Islamic state, lives for itself, God forbid everyone, richly and peacefully. What about Pakistan? Manage to be a strong state in such a volcanic in the political sense of the environment. Turkey itself under such external conditions would have crumbled long ago, like Libya out of the blue. It is interesting that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the most Islamic states, allies of the United States, perhaps the United States are attracted by their strength. And Islam does not stop them from getting their nishtyaki from partnership.
    And Malaysia, from the newly industrialized countries in terms that are currently obsolete? Sharia courts operate on a par with secular courts in the country. (That is, Turkey is far from Malaysia in the level of Islamization of the state system.) About 10-15 years ago, a Sharia court condemned the girl who converted from Islam to Christianity for 10 years in prison. The appeal in the constitutional court did not pass, although the constitution of the country is freedom of religion. We did not dare to political complications. But who would not want to live in a country as prosperous as Malaysia?
  25. Druid
    Druid 3 September 2013 18: 26 New
    +2
    Quote: xetai9977
    At the same time, I am convinced that this is not the case when, for example, 70% of the country's population chooses a government whose worldview distracts its aspirations, and some general thinks differently and overthrows him, thereby rudely spitting on the opinion of the majority of the people.
    Even today, Turkey, unlike Azerbaijan, cannot boast of a high level of universal education and literacy. So what do you propose to the “generals,” or rather the most educated part of the population, capable of not only controlling the donkey, but also managing and serving the most sophisticated equipment, indulging the “majority” who live in medieval prejudices (I'm not talking about Islam)?
    I will give examples for ease of understanding:
    a) Imagine, you and I are in Papua New Guinea, so that we indulge the majority, too, to start eating the meat of enemies?
    b) Terrorists hijacked a plane with a hundred passengers; during the assault, up to a dozen can die. If you ask the relatives of the passengers or the passengers themselves, you will receive an answer - Fulfill any requirements of the terrorists, even if there is a threat to the life of only one passenger. So what to indulge in terrorists, save one guided by the opinion of the majority and in the future, to ditch hundreds and thousands?
    c) Austria, a European democratic country, as a result of again democratic elections, in the wake of primarily economic problems that angered the majority of the population, nationalists headed by Haider came to power, more than a dozen European countries immediately expressed their position, Israel recalled the ambassador from Vienna , Austria was almost isolated, so what should one do, respect the opinion of the "majority" of the Austrian population and get another Hitler of the local spill, or take drastic measures and stop this in the bud?

    Democracy is good, but it is not anarchy or the power of a raging or illiterate crowd. So, as before, I disagree with you and my opinion was that the generals acted correctly.
    We are all Muslims, and we all remember that with every breath we are closer to death, and the world is closer to achiryat (Judgment Day) every day, Islamic values ​​can and should be realized in the family, society, but fall under the power of those who decide that he more Muslim than you are already a sin, as well as indulge those who, out of religion and purity, will make a screen behind which there will be all the same nomenclature.
    An example is neighboring Iran, the Islamic Republic, judging by the name and legal proceedings, since they apply the Sharia rules, in which those who are near see only stoning, chopping off their hands, and beating with sticks. On the one hand, they talk about the Islamic state, in fact, they realize Persian chauvinism and nationalism. There is a second large nation, but there is no second state language, which would be fair, if you don’t want two languages, ok`, then let's justly - let everyone speak the language in which the Almighty sent down the Qur'an and said the Prophet (A.S.) that received in response - the division of southern Azerbaijan into a larger number of provinces. That the drug is not rushing from there, or in Afghanistan the Taliban burned drug plantations and executed drug dealers?
    We are all ITALY MUSLIM, who is to judge whom, but not to any parties and forces that implement a particular strategy, and not the values ​​of Islam.
  26. zennon
    zennon 3 September 2013 20: 27 New
    +1
    The Turks have a good, efficient army. Kurds keep them in good shape!
  27. 1goose3
    1goose3 3 September 2013 20: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Atash
    Erdogan is not a radical. He is in the position of traditional Islam, Sharia mosque. Radicals in Turkey were never given a chance to develop, even an ordinary mosque was pressed.


    And it’s true, but all this was before Erdogan and his predecessor. Islam is moderate not radical, but Islamization can only be radical. So you are not right for all 100.
  28. Arkan
    Arkan 3 September 2013 20: 46 New
    +1
    Turkish military forgot how to make coups? Erdogan risks, or imagines himself Sultan Mahmoud II, he reformed the army, and this one is falling apart. War on the border, Kurds, confrontation in the country itself. Erdogan play out.
  29. sergej30003
    sergej30003 3 September 2013 21: 14 New
    +2
    Erdogan is not an independent figure, and his servility to the United States, after a thrashing, for passivity towards Syria, when, as if by wave of the wand, the masses of the people came out demanding his resignation, today he is more likely to fulfill the demands of the owner, to get rid of independent figures, that is, military who has an opinion, shows its independence.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Atash
    Atash 4 September 2013 06: 45 New
    0
    Quote: 1goose3
    Islamization can only be radical

    This is Islamophobia. Or one can say so only from the position of the ideology of a purely “secular” atheistic state. The West imposes “secularism” on the whole world, in fact, remaining quite religious. In Germany, a church maintenance tax is levied: from Catholics to Catholic churches, from Protestants to Protestant, atheists are accordingly not charged. The Pope has a well-known political influence. Politicians can never separate from the church. And we naively accept on faith the principle of separation of the church from the state. In Pakistan, the state system has also not always been as Islamized as it is now. So what? They only got stronger.
  32. Atash
    Atash 4 September 2013 07: 04 New
    0
    Quote: 1goose3
    Islamization can only be radical

    For Turkey, Islam alone cannot be anything radical. The struggle of secularists and Islamists is a constant motive for the political life of Turkey in the 20th century. At the beginning of the 20th century, the same Atatürk was quite a radical. His reforms were truly radical. Recently, radicals have been identified with extremists. Before, radicalism was considered a completely legal political direction. What Gorbachev did, for example, are not radical reforms? The political life of Turkey has always been stormy permanently, constant movements in a wide range.
  33. Atash
    Atash 4 September 2013 07: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: Druid
    Example neighboring Iran

    Iran is Shiites. In fact, they are not Muslims, it is something separate. In Pakistan, Shiites are forbidden by law to call themselves Muslims.
  34. Druid
    Druid 4 September 2013 09: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: Atash
    Iran is Shiites. In fact, they are not Muslims, it is something separate. In Pakistan, Shiites are forbidden by law to call themselves Muslims.
    I am also a Muslim Shiite, no one has called me to like this and the first time I hear from you about this, you will need to ask the Pakistanis at the meeting next time. Although, what they say in Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia on this matter is frankly indifferent to me, it is more important that there is more good when all my affairs are put on the scales.
    Distracting from the topic. The Prophet Muhammad (A.S.), the coming of which was predicted by Isa (A.S.) or as his mother and those around him called Isau (-the Messiah), or as it came to you in the Greek version of Jesus (-Christ), and so Muhammad said that after his death: "The Jews were divided into 71 groups and the Christians were divided into 72 groups, and my Ummah (Community) will be divided into 73 groups."
    I personally cannot argue that the trends of Shiism are close to the truth or the trends or madhhabs in Sunnism - the mission of the Prophet is to abandon polytheism and paganism in favor of faith in the One Lord, and leave the Koran to its contemporaries and future generations, which is essentially the direct speech of the Almighty and under His protection from fraud and change. The Qur'an is the foundation of Islam, and how strong or shaky and curved walls a person builds on this foundation depends on himself and his qualities. On Judgment Day, everyone will be responsible only for himself and references to someone to justify his sins will not be accepted if a person knew the truth or exhorted it.