Military Review

Salaries and prices up to 1917 year

153
Salaries and prices up to 1917 year



1. Workers. The average salary of a worker in Russia was 37.5 rubles. Multiply this amount by 1282,29 (the ratio of the tsarist ruble to the modern) and get the amount of 48085 thousand rubles to the modern conversion.

2. Janitor 18 rubles or 23081 p. on modern money

3. Second Lieutenant Lieutenant 70 p. or 89 760 p. on modern money

4. The town (ordinary police officer) 20, 5 p. or 26 287 p. on modern money

5. Workers (Petersburg). It is interesting that the average salary in St. Petersburg was lower and amounted to 1914 year 22 ruble 53 penny. Multiply this amount by 1282,29 and get 28890 Russian rubles.

6.Kuharka 5 - 8 r. or 6.5.-10 thousand for modern money

7. Elementary school teacher 25 p. or 32050 p. on modern money

8. Gymnasium Teacher 85 or 108970 p. on modern money

9 .. Senior Janitor 40 p. or 51 297 p. on modern money

10..Okolotochny warder (modern analog-part) 50 p. or 64 115 for modern money

11. Paramedic 40 p. or 51280 p.

12. Colonel 325 p. or 416 744 p. on modern money

13. Kollezhsky assessor (middle class official) 62 p. or 79 502 p. on modern money

14. Privy Councilor (official of the highest class) 500 or 641 145 for modern money. The same amount received by the army general

And how much, you ask, then cost products? A pound of meat in 1914 cost 19 kopecks. Russian pound weighed gram 0,40951241. It means that a kilogram, if it were a measure of weight, would have cost 46,39 kopecks - 0,359 gram of gold, that is, in current money, 551 ruble 14 kopecks. Thus, a worker could buy a kilogram of meat for his salary 48,6, if he wanted to, of course.

Wheat flour 0,08 p. (8 kopecks) = 1 pound (0,4 kg)
Figure pound 0,12 p. = 1 pound (0,4 kg)
Biscuit 0,60 p. = 1 pound (0,4 kg)
Milk 0,08 r. = 1 bottle
Tomatoes 0,22 p. = 1 pound
Fish (pike perch) 0,25 p. = 1 pound
Grapes (raisins) 0,16 p. = 1 pound
Apples 0,03 p. = 1 pound

Now let's see how much it cost to rent a house. Rental housing cost in St. Petersburg 25, and in Moscow and Kiev 20 kopecks per square arshin per month. These 20 kopecks make up today 256 rubles, and square arshin - 0,5058 m². That is, the monthly rent of one square meter was worth in 1914, the 506 of today's rubles. Our clerk would rent an apartment of one hundred square arshins in St. Petersburg for 25 rubles a month. But he did not rent such an apartment, but was content with a basement and garret closet, where the area was smaller, and the rental rate was lower. Such an apartment was rented, as a rule, by titular advisers who received a salary at the level of an army captain. The bare salary of a titular adviser was 105 rubles per month (134 thousand 640 rubles) per month. Thus, the 50-meter flat cost him less than a quarter of the salary.

Well, now let's talk about how the recalculation for modern money is made on the example of the clerk (petty official) salary. In rubles, his salary was 37 rubles and 24 and a half pennies. In those years, there was a gold standard, and each ruble contained 17,424 fractions of pure gold, that is, 0,774235 g in terms of metric measures. Therefore, the clerk's salary is equal to 28,836382575 gram of gold. If we divide this weight into the current gold content of the ruble as of 28 in January 2013, we get 47 758 rubles and 89 kopecks. As you can see, the royal ruble is equal today 1282 to modern rubles 29 kopecks.
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  1. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 31 August 2013 08: 17 New
    +9
    Very interesting.
    And you can count 1989, I just became a second lieutenant.
    He did not seem to get enough, but there was no money.
    1. laurbalaur
      laurbalaur 31 August 2013 11: 18 New
      +6
      Try reading here, the article is actually copied from this site, only in a compressed form. http://www.opoccuu.com/wages.htm
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 31 August 2013 18: 17 New
        +8
        Quote: laurbalaur
        Try reading here, the article is actually copied from this site, only in a compressed form

        I read it and minus it. The article is not entirely true. The average salary of a worker is 37,5 rubles. This is the maximum in the metallurgical industry. The so-called labor aristocracy. And even such salaries were only at the largest factories in Moscow and St. Petersburg. The average salaries in industries ranged from ranging from 8 to 15 rubles. So in my native Ivanovo region, the average salary in textile factories was 9,5-10 rubles.
        Well, the authors should also say that the working day was 10,5 hours.
        1. Egor.nic
          Egor.nic 2 September 2013 15: 07 New
          -1
          The article shows and reflects the truth and realities of life of that time, how would you like not to believe in it. And to this truth there are many confirmations carefully concealed during the times of the USSR.
          With all this, the author cites prices for large cities. Food prices in urban settlements and posadnas were even lower.
          According to official (family) data .... (in the Samara and Penza provinces), for 10 rubles, at the fair you could buy almost a whole cart of various products and goods. And who tried to live with tips for 10 rubles? The survivor's pension in the USSR was 9p - this is a miserable existence with a shortage of products and goods.
          Yes, such a concept as an industry did not exist at that time, and industry was only in its infancy.
          And you should know that in the village the people lived by their labor and were wealthy, self-sufficient and had 2-3 classes of education (which is not enough at that time). Again, in fact - the peasants that the workers were allowed themselves to buy land allotments, good houses to build, wealthy, to open a personal matter. Remember, for example, "The Cherry Orchard" A.P. Chekhov.
          And who played the idler and from work, from dawn to dawn, avoided, and they interrupted from tops to crackers (and then they wrote to the Bolsheviks so that they would then take away the good from the neighbor).
    2. alone
      alone 31 August 2013 17: 39 New
      +1
      )) if there was no money, then why count them?))
  2. apro
    apro 31 August 2013 08: 33 New
    21
    For some reason they don’t write how much the average peasant had the foundation of the Russian Empire, and they write how bad it was for the minority workers made up less than 10% of the nobles, 5% of the population, but for the majority of the population, wages of 30 rubles a month was an unattainable dream. My grandfather told his mother that he hired and, as a result of work, wasn’t enough for boots, and boots cost from 3 to 5 rubles.
    1. olegff68
      olegff68 31 August 2013 12: 51 New
      15
      Quote: apro
      For some reason they don’t write, but how much the average peasant had the foundation of the Russian Empire

      I can try to answer - my great-grandfather returned to his native village with the “imperialist” one, his whole chest is in crosses, but ONE LEGAL DISABLED - he got married, built a brick house (still stands), started a strong household and bred children. In the 30s he was convicted under the article "peasant sole farmer" and sent to Siberia with his family. Only his wife and two sons survived the "staging" (one of them is my grandfather, the order bearer - a participant in the Finnish, World War II, military operations in the Far East with Japan)
      1. apro
        apro 31 August 2013 13: 16 New
        0
        You didn’t answer, your grandfather, as I understand it, returned to Soviet Russia and took all his property at the time of Nepa. I tell you about Thomas and you about Yeryom.
        1. olegff68
          olegff68 31 August 2013 13: 34 New
          18
          Quote: apro
          You didn’t answer, your grandfather, as I understand it, returned to Soviet Russia and took all his property at the time of Nepa. I tell you about Thomas and you about Yeryom.

          There was an excellent education in the USSR, but you were not taught to read. Read great-grandfather, with "IMPERIALIST", on the loss of a leg (the war was still ongoing), etc. , in Soviet Russia, at the time of "dispossession" he had 5ro children (some are already teenagers), his pregnant wife (because of this she survived - she had a miscarriage at the stage and she was simply thrown from a wagon train into a snowdrift, was able to get to the nearest village where they helped her) and a strong economy.
          To the minuses - you are fanatics not able to perceive some truth - the times were not unambiguous !!!
          1. KVB-76
            KVB-76 31 August 2013 14: 25 New
            +5
            You forgot to clarify that for those who died or were injured in the war, compensation was not frail by the village standards from the state. Otherwise, your great-grandfather, especially with disabilities, could hardly have built all of the above.
            1. olegff68
              olegff68 31 August 2013 15: 16 New
              +4
              Quote: KVB-76
              You forgot to clarify that for the dead or injured in the war relied not frail by the village standards of compensation

              I have not forgotten anything !!!!!!!!!
              I gave an example and this example is indicative.
              Give an example of the construction of good houses, establishments of strong households and large families with disabled wars in our time and even under the USSR, but then it was commonplace !!!
              1. Lacoste
                Lacoste 31 August 2013 17: 55 New
                +3
                My great-grandmother brought up 4! children alone after WWII in the village
              2. komendor
                komendor 31 August 2013 21: 37 New
                +1
                Hello Oleg. I realized that it’s best to read it here, but to write, and even to oneself or to relatives, it’s such a shit and condemnation. I won’t write further ....
              3. revnagan
                revnagan 1 September 2013 20: 50 New
                +2
                Quote: olegff68
                Give an example of the construction of good houses, establishments of strong households and large families with disabled wars in our time and even under the USSR, but then it was commonplace !!!

                Yes, it’s easy. The village of Chapleevka in the Sumy region. At the entrance to the village there was a "master's house." Before the revolution, the landowner lived there, which was before the 70s, I don’t know, but before the collapse of the USSR there was some kind of office. So, in the village at the beginning of the 90s, practically ALL HOUSES HAVE BEEN SIZED WITH THIS "PANSKY HOUSE". Brick, cinder blocks, under a slate or iron roof. And before the revolution, there was only one normal house (and the village was big). My grandmother’s father also had a good house. , also under an iron roof, but smaller than the “master's.” When he was dispossessed and the cattle was taken to the collective farm, he ran it (the cattle) to the collective farm “to shout” (to take care of). But that was the time then. Almost total hunger in the village. Earth It was possible to process only by combining the efforts of all the owners of the horses. It was tough, but correct.
      2. rexby63
        rexby63 31 August 2013 19: 41 New
        24
        My grandfather, returning with an imperialist one-armed invalid, also started a strong economy (three mills). In the 30s he was not convicted, joined the collective farm, worked as manager of non-mills. During the Great Patriotic War, one of his sons was captured, not in a concentration camp, worked for the Bauer, was not sentenced after the war, (even in the filtration was less than a week). Being a conscript, I, my grandson, refused to join the CPSU, was not convicted, and after graduating from the army I graduated from high school. I live to be 50 years old, I just can’t get it, what is “bloody gebnya”
      3. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 21: 18 New
        +1
        There was no article "PEASANT PERSONALITY" in the Criminal Code of the USSR and other republics that are members of the UNION. Why are you lying?
        1. olegff68
          olegff68 2 September 2013 21: 15 New
          0
          Quote: vladkavkaz
          There was no article "PEASANT PERSONALITY" in the Criminal Code of the USSR and other republics that are members of the UNION. Why are you lying?

          Did you notice the quotes ??? Are you accusing me of lying ??? - boldly!
          According to a secret certificate prepared in 1934 by the operational-accounting department of the OGPU, about 90 thousand kulaks died along the way, another 300 thousand died from malnutrition and illness in places of exile - This archive data (official, read far from complete) is the same nonsense ???
    2. KVB-76
      KVB-76 31 August 2013 14: 22 New
      +5
      Absolutely agree. The cost of labor is given without taking into account the incomes of the most part of the peasant population. It is also necessary to take into account the fact that the peasant analogue of a hired laborer could have income several times less than the owner of the land, and there were always a lot of laborers in Russia under the tsars. If in doubt, read Kuropatkin "Russian Army".
    3. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 31 August 2013 17: 19 New
      +9
      I spoke with the "middle peasant." Grandfather was interesting ... In general, he was a peasant in the summer, but in the winter he installed water pipes and heating in Moscow houses! The construction then was carried out exclusively in the summer, because the houses of that construction still stand where they did not bomb. Well, by winter, it was time to breed communication. Given that the finished parts have not yet been invented, all bends, bends, even converging couplings were done locally - the work was still that.
      Of course, he was not just so advanced himself, there was an artel of strong and skillful peasants in two villages ... And he earned about a hundred rubles a month with such labor. You can see the recount. My grandfather spoke very interestingly about the revolution, how quickly the workers figured out what happened here and how Lev Davidych with the help of some guys, for some reason speaking bad Russian (they all nodded to the Latvian riflemen, but the grandfather only laughed, also told me Latvians) shot, shot, shot ... To my hatched eyes, he said that he was afraid of his own, as he had exceeded 80.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 00 New
        +1
        And how quickly did the workers figure it out? Not by 1991? And what kind of party experience does this grandfather have?
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. shurup
    shurup 31 August 2013 08: 42 New
    11
    It would be nice to voice the income figures of agricultural workers, as well as compare the change in the tax burden over a hundred years.
    Currently, the housing and communal services, under the strict guidance of management companies, can even bankrupt the income of a titular adviser. The number of people wishing to be senior janitors still exceeds the need for primary school teachers.
    In addition, we should not forget that the workers were hired for specific work, at the end or suspension of which they were immediately fired.
    Peasants in the winter went to work in cities, and very non-poor nobles could afford to be a guard officer.
    1. fartfraer
      fartfraer 31 August 2013 08: 49 New
      14
      I agree. In a few years they will tell us how great it was now. The middle-ranking official received a lot, he could afford food without any restrictions (for example, just), he lived in a comfortable apartment and gave rent a mere penny.
      it remains only to figure out why in the country (where everything is so good and healthy) a revolution suddenly occurred (more precisely, 2 per year). This question is somehow not reflected in this post. But in any case I put a "+", it was interesting to read
      1. shurup
        shurup 31 August 2013 09: 45 New
        +5
        If it was suppressed, then it was a riot, and if not, then a revolution took place. Some percent of dissatisfied always exists even in the most prosperous society. This is from the time of tribal relations, but then the dissatisfied separated and built a new settlement.
        Now spiders have to be in the same bank.
        The article also does not talk about the emigration of Russians to America by whole villages, and the post-revolutionary peak was just another wave.
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 31 August 2013 10: 28 New
          +6
          I agree that there are always dissatisfied (with any order). However, as it turned out, there were so many of those who were satisfied that they were killed or fled to the "foreign land"? You will agree that it’s difficult to prove to a well-fed person that he is terribly hungry and make him fight a cook. , riots in the fleet, as a result of the collapse of the previous system and social disaster (I’m talking about revolution). well, and the Bolsheviks’ victory in the end. It could not be caused only by propaganda, the ground was needed for this propaganda. Apparently not everything was as joyful as written in the article.
      2. aviator46
        aviator46 1 September 2013 00: 29 New
        +4
        Reason 1st World ...
        The revolution didn’t come from the fact that they lived poorly BEFORE THE WAR / although the changes were ripe, only the 2nd Nikolashka didn’t want this /, but it’s very bad, in the war.
        And it should be noted that millions were armed and able to kill ..., it is unlikely that the Revolution would be so bloody in peacetime.
        1. Tver
          Tver 1 September 2013 13: 45 New
          +2
          a very mature position! Except for Nicholas-2 ... He wanted to or not, but he would not be able to do anything anyway!
    2. creak
      creak 31 August 2013 09: 59 New
      +7
      This should not be about the guard, since the guard officers never lived on official salaries. As for the army officers, it should be borne in mind that, unlike the Soviet Army, officers of the Imperial Russian Army had to sew uniforms and acquire the necessary equipment at their own expense. And this resulted in a round sum, in addition, the officer was obliged to regularly visit the regimental officer meeting, which also cost money. The status did not allow him to eat in public canteens and ride a tram. So ordinary army officers didn’t at all luxuriate and, even compared to the armies of Western Europe, received even less. So, the officers had more expenses than the corresponding categories of civil servants with all the consequences ...
      1. Vadim2013
        Vadim2013 1 September 2013 20: 45 New
        +3
        Kuprin’s novel “The Duel” is well described.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 1 September 2013 20: 52 New
          +1
          Vadim, I’ll add, before the fight it will be very useful to read “Junker”.
    3. revnagan
      revnagan 1 September 2013 20: 56 New
      -2
      Quote: shurup
      It would be nice to voice the income figures of agricultural workers, as well as compare the change in the tax burden over a hundred years.

      Oh my God, pennies for fish ... Yes, let everyone who writes how good life was before the Revolution S. Kara-Murzu "History of the Soviet State." There is a lot of interesting links with particularly meticulous. Read, citizens and enlighten
  5. Boris55
    Boris55 31 August 2013 08: 53 New
    13
    After Black Tuesday, they appointed me to receive money for the officers of the battalion. The soldier's bag stuffed to the brim with bundles of Soviet bills. Barely tied.
    Almost all were millionaires, but the point was ... bread on 6 was worth a thousand.

    The welfare of citizens does not depend on the availability of banknotes in their pockets.
  6. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 31 August 2013 08: 53 New
    0
    I put a minus because I do not believe that the city officer received a little more than a janitor and half the size of an older janitor. From these data, others seem dubious.
    1. not good
      not good 31 August 2013 20: 48 New
      +2
      There is nothing surprising in this, because the janitor was considered a police officer.
    2. E.S.A.
      E.S.A. 21 October 2018 21: 01 New
      0
      It was the city policeman who received more than a janitor, because the janitor is the primary post in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of that time. Another thing is strange - that the senior janitor received more than the city!
  7. Fox
    Fox 31 August 2013 09: 00 New
    +8
    minusanul ... tired of printing these fables already! how many% of the population were workers, office workers, etc.? Now, too, the judge-deputies-generals are living quite well, so what, and the people are not in poverty?
    1. Pashhenko Nikolay
      Pashhenko Nikolay 31 August 2013 09: 04 New
      +7
      And I want to ask, why did these workers who received good salaries support the revolution?
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 31 August 2013 09: 36 New
        +7
        And why in Libya Gaddafi was overthrown or what are the unhappy with hamsters in mink coats on the swamp ...
        The article is not about that. Revolutions are from another opera.
        1. Lacoste
          Lacoste 31 August 2013 10: 38 New
          +5
          Revolutions - yes, why did millions join the civilian side of the Reds?
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 31 August 2013 15: 49 New
            +4
            Quote: Lacoste
            why did millions join the civilian side of the Reds?

            But this is really a myth. The majority would like to sit quietly but a violent mobilization was carried out. Not millions went by volunteers. Moreover, some managed to serve this and that several times
            1. Lacoste
              Lacoste 31 August 2013 18: 01 New
              +5
              As I understand it, people tend to rebel against violent measures (and especially in such turbulent times). In the best of times, the White Army reached 300. And this was before the introduction of military service by the Bolsheviks. Well, the strength of the Red Army in its heyday reached 000 million people. And yes, what prevented Bely from carrying out exactly the same mobilization in the controlled territories?
              1. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 31 August 2013 19: 16 New
                +3
                Quote: Lacoste
                And yes, what prevented Bely from carrying out exactly the same mobilization in the controlled territories?

                Probably a slightly different mentality. How about the Red Terror?
                And as for the uprisings, yes they were among the peasants in the Tambov region, in Kronstadt in particular, but by nature the Russian people for some reason endured
                1. Lacoste
                  Lacoste 31 August 2013 22: 55 New
                  +5
                  Probably a slightly different mentality. How about the Red Terror?
                  And as for the uprisings, yes they were among the peasants in the Tambov region, in Kronstadt in particular, but by nature the Russian people for some reason endured

                  Mentality? They have such a mentality - live richly and do not blow your mustache, while others let them die of hunger. What about the White Terror? Why did they run from Kolchak to the Reds? And why would the people generally support the former government, from which there is so much oppression and injustice?
                  Patient, but for the time being. Pugachev, Razin, Bulavin as examples.
                  1. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 1 September 2013 00: 22 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Lacoste
                    live richly and do not blow in your mustache, and let others die of hunger

                    Are you talking about the mentality of an army lieutenant or captain? Are you rich, however, in the trenches of World War I. Once again I’ll try to ask how many people starved to death before 1917 and after 1917?
                  2. Egor.nic
                    Egor.nic 2 September 2013 16: 08 New
                    +1
                    What harassment and injustice are you talking about? The excesses of local officials, so at all times they existed and now there are enough examples. Who was oppressed - peasants (private owners) who worked on the land and fed all of Russia, Europe, Canada and America, so they were free and at their expense kept the food independence of Russia. Industrialists - developing in the early 20th century, industry in Russia is faster than in Europe. The army is the stronghold of the autocracy. Workers - who were built and were interested in working because their wealth was growing? Immigrants - who were given such lifting that under the Bolsheviks this never dreamed of? Intelligentsia - the number and education of which grew from year to year?
                    And the Jews who were excommunicated from power and the possibility of influencing the authorities were oppressed, the lumpen were oppressed, parasites and thieves were oppressed, who were not favorable to their position and who were ready to do anything to change their miserable position. As a result, the Social Revolutionary cells — a party, etc. including Bolshevism, Leninism and other crap.
                    It is worth noting the followers of Bolshevism that not one country in Europe and the world, even the birthplace of Marxism, has not experienced such bloody coups and civil war, clearly planned by puppeteers. As soon as our fools were able to breed on such bullshit. In general, now they push Russia on the same rake for the second time. And again, parasites and Jews are trying to drag Russia into the abyss.
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 26 New
                      0
                      "... peasants ... who fed all of Russia, Europe, Canada and America" ​​- that is, Europe, Canada and America could not feed themselves? Why didn’t they starve to death when “the Bolsheviks destroyed the peasantry” in Russia?
                      Industrialists who supplied money to revolutionaries; workers continuously staged strikes and strikes, and often armed demonstrations; the army and navy, systematically rebelling and eventually overthrowing the king; settlers, according to Kolchak generals, who played a major role in the uprisings against the whites; the intelligentsia, whose NOT to be a revolutionary, was considered bad form - ALL of them, one must think, lived well under the tsarist regime!

                      “..there is not one country in Europe and the world, even the homeland of Marxism has not experienced such bloody coups and civil war” - on the contrary, in comparison with what has been happening both in Europe and in the world since the last centuries, there was only a petty brawl in Russia.
              2. revnagan
                revnagan 1 September 2013 21: 08 New
                +3
                Quote: Lacoste
                . And yes, what prevented Bely from carrying out exactly the same mobilization in the controlled territories?

                Yes, they did so ... And given the fact that there was a period when the Bolsheviks controlled a very small "island" of the territory of Russia, and everything else was under the "whites" and their allies, the myth that the Bolsheviks forced people fight for their interests, it becomes obvious.
                Anecdote:
                ad in the paper.
                "I will sell skins of hare-hares.
                Red Hare. "
                1. Pilat2009
                  Pilat2009 2 September 2013 12: 05 New
                  +1
                  Quote: revnagan
                  a very small "island" of the territory of Russia

                  Then, judging by your logic, the White army should have been the same 5 million forcibly ousted. Meanwhile, even during the time of Wrangel, when there was a lack of troops to protect the isthmus, there was no general mobilization and more people were hanging around in the rear than at the front
            2. builder74
              builder74 31 August 2013 18: 34 New
              +3
              Maybe it was a good life until October, but how then could they become truly folk songs about the heroes of the Civil War? Where did the tremendous upsurge of patriotism and enthusiasm come from in the 20-30s?
              1. Egor.nic
                Egor.nic 2 September 2013 16: 17 New
                0
                The answer is simple - the party said it is necessary ......
                Any construction in Bolshevik Russia was paid a heavy price - firstly, gold for Western specialists who created factories, factories and new equipment (the old ones were completely destroyed), and secondly, hundreds of thousands of lost lives on every construction site of the century. And how many such construction projects were ....
                Here you have far-fetched tales about the uplift of the spirit of the people and “heroes”. And how many hundreds of thousands of volunteers bought on such slogans perished on these construction sites and perestroika, in the civil war.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 33 New
                  0
                  "The answer is simple - the party said it is necessary" - what is needed? To have enthusiasm? Somehow, the party just succeeded. But now both the parties (VybRos, NDR, EdRo) and the government are constantly saying "it is necessary" - to create a new ideology, to stimulate enthusiasm - the ringing of the title of Hero of Labor has already been sung, and the result?
            3. rexby63
              rexby63 31 August 2013 20: 05 New
              +3
              But the Reds won. And for God's sake, please, without fairy tales about the “fluffy and white” whites. Sorry for the tautology
              1. Egor.nic
                Egor.nic 2 September 2013 16: 35 New
                0
                The Reds did not win, it is impossible to defeat with the help of terror and the destruction of their own people. Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs.
                There is a limit to everything. Someone had to stop exterminating each other. And the smartest and the noblest is always to blame (this is not about the Bolsheviks). After all, the intelligence and nobility of the white officers were enough to let the captive "red" fighters go (and they were released by hundreds and thousands, though until the second time), they would plow the land home, and not destroy the souls of the innocent. I lacked the mind of white not to shoot children and women, to destroy factories and burn crops ..... Why, yes, because they lived in their own country and it was their people and people needed to eat something.
                What is not at all possible to say about the red bandits who carefully exterminated millions and do not think about the fact that nobles, intellectuals, manufacturers, doctors, scientists, the so-called kulaks, ordinary dissenting peasants, sailors and all their families are people and the best people of Russia. Destroyed all those who did not agree with party politics. That there would be no doubt that the party is not right.
                And further, collectivization, grandiose construction projects, Stalinism with its camps ..... and again the destruction of those who disagree and doubters.
                These are red ones, up to the elbow in blood, white and fluffy.
                1. rexby63
                  rexby63 2 September 2013 19: 11 New
                  +1
                  About 50-60 people of motley-clad people lead from huts, many in protective clothes, without hats, without belts, their heads and hands are lowered.
                  The prisoners.
                  Overtaking them. Nezhintsev, jumping to us, stopped - a mare dancing underneath a mouse colored under him.
                  "Those who want to kill!" He shouts.
                  "What? - I think. - Shooting? Really? " Yes, I realized: the shooting, these 50-60 people, with their heads and arms down.
                  I looked back at my officers.
                  "Suddenly no one will go?" - flashed through me.
                  No, get out of the ranks. Some embarrassedly smiling, some with fierce faces.
                  Fifteen people came out. They go to a bunch of strangers and click the shutters.

                  A minute passed.

                  Flew by: flies! .. Dry crack of shots, screams, groans ...

                  Gul Roman Borisovich

                  Another six months before the declaration of red terror. Or maybe the “smartest and most noble” RB Gul talks to himself and his fellow soldiers?
                  1. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 2 September 2013 19: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: rexby63
                    Another six months before the declaration of red terror.


                    “We must turn Russia into a desert inhabited by white negroes, to whom we will give such a tyranny that the most terrible despots of the East have never dreamed of. The only difference is that this tyranny will not be on the right, but on the left, and not white, but red, for we let us shed such streams of blood before which all the human losses of capitalist wars shudder and turn pale ”-Trotsky

                    http://traditio-ru.org/wiki/%CA%F0%E0%F1%ED%FB%E9_%F2%E5%F0%F0%EE%F0_%E2_%E3%EE%
                    E4%FB_%C3%F0%E0%E6%E4%E0%ED%F1%EA%EE%E9_%E2%EE%E9%ED%FB
                    Here you gave an example of the shooting of prisoners, which was practiced everywhere. Costs of war
                    No wonder the surviving officers shot the Reds without regret
                    1. rexby63
                      rexby63 2 September 2013 21: 54 New
                      +2
                      surviving officers


                      An excerpt from Gulya’s book describes the start time of the Ice Campaign in February 1918. The officers are still alive, almost no one is touching them, in Russia the majority do not even know who the Bolsheviks are, and they (officers) are already burning with irreconcilable hatred towards them. Question - for what? After all, Leyba also did not write or say the words quoted by you. Without whitewashing the Bolsheviks, I want to say: At the goldsmiths, the stigma in the cannon is no less, but count more.
                      To get started, read Denikin's Troubles and Gulya's Ice Campaign and think about why there are differences in them.
                2. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 39 New
                  0
                  "... the white officers had the intelligence and nobility to let the captive" red "fighters go (and they were released by hundreds and thousands, though until the second time) to plow the land home, not to destroy the souls of the innocent. It was enough for the white mind not to shoot children and women, to destroy factories and burn crops ..... Why, because they lived in their own country and it was their people and the people needed something to eat "- everything is stated exactly the opposite. For whites, the main enemy was precisely “their people”, for the victory over which they were ready to give Russia to anyone — England, Japan, Hitler, even the devil.
            4. Doctor71
              Doctor71 20 October 2013 16: 18 New
              +1
              What is it like? Millions of armed people dissatisfied with power in her own army? Like the "Fine" Dostal, in a company of mobilized 3 guard companies?
          2. Egor.nic
            Egor.nic 2 September 2013 15: 39 New
            0
            Well, let’s say millions of volunteers weren’t in the first place. There was a violent approach in mobilizing for the army of the Bolsheviks - either to serve, or the whole family to the wall - this is the second. But millions of refuseniks to serve in the “Red-bellied”, hundreds of thousands of executed “Red Army men” and “red sailors” (who rebelled against the policies and actions of the Bolshevik authorities when not righteous methods of the rulers opened up) in the first year of the Bolshevik government - this is the third. Terror, intimidation, shooting without trial entire villages and small towns - this is the fourth. Land - to the peasants (which they never received, factories to the workers (nothing was left from the factories) - brainwashing similar to the current approach in the swamp, playpen, etc. - in the fifth. You can list - in the sixth, in the seventh, etc. .
            Some Western leaders, as a strong and big power, needed to be destroyed, and there were those who sold out and who worked for money. A "brainless" puppets enough at all times.
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 47 New
              0
              “... there were no millions of volunteers - firstly. There was a violent approach to mobilizing the Bolshevik army for either serving or the whole family to the wall” - maybe there were not millions, but hundreds of thousands of deserters who came when the threat of the arrival of whites became a reality - a fact.
              And about violent mobilization - the story of old relatives: "Did someone in the village serve in the white people? No, no one. Why? And they all hid from them in the forest. Did anyone serve in the red ones? Nobody, too. Why? So? they didn’t take anyone to themselves. "
        2. Lacoste
          Lacoste 31 August 2013 10: 47 New
          0
          Do you think that hamsters on Bolotnaya are able to take up arms and go to the Kremlin? Yes, never in my life, they were dispersed by riot police, not that the army could resist.
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 31 August 2013 19: 17 New
            0
            Quote: Lacoste
            Do you think that hamsters on Bolotnaya are able to take up arms and go to the Kremlin? Yes, never in my life, they were dispersed by riot police, not that the army could resist.

            here is the answer to:
            Quote: Lacoste
            against violent measures people tend to rebel
            1. Lacoste
              Lacoste 31 August 2013 22: 33 New
              0
              On Bolotnaya that they forcibly took them into the army and forced to kill their compatriots?
      2. shurup
        shurup 31 August 2013 09: 55 New
        +7
        If you cut off food supplies to the capital and key cities, food prices react instantly, while other Dow Johnson indices are rapidly falling.
        Didn’t you pass this under Gorbachev?
      3. Egor.nic
        Egor.nic 2 September 2013 15: 20 New
        -1
        And why did you decide that these workers supported the revolution?
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 2 September 2013 22: 14 New
          0
          because they supported it, therefore they decided. By the way, do you know such a concept as “twenty-five thousandths?” they were in most of the workers.
      4. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 03 New
        +1
        Workers who received good salaries did not support the revolution — they organized it. And it was supported by workers with low salaries - from the peasants, well, the peasants themselves, of course.
  8. Revolver
    Revolver 31 August 2013 09: 03 New
    +4
    Interesting observations, especially regarding workers, i.e. proletarians, who, according to Marx, had "nothing to lose but their chains." And he, it turns out, in addition to bread and water, he could very well afford meat. For completeness, a comparative analysis is lacking only the price of vodka. Defect s. But still article +
    1. m262
      m262 31 August 2013 11: 17 New
      +2
      Read the classics: Maxim Gorky “In People” - Alyosha Peshkov bought accordion from his first salary, boots, got drunk drunk, and bought a mother’s down scarf while renting a room and apparently also left it for food.
      What for the proletarians started a revolution incomprehensibly !!! fool
      1. olegff68
        olegff68 31 August 2013 12: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: m262

        What for the proletarians started a revolution incomprehensibly !!! fool

        They didn’t start, but the leader of the world proletariat (with comrades), who by the way did not work even a day, and before the revolution, he traveled to Europe for several years "in immigration", living in one country, then in another, including Germany ( that moment the enemy of Russia) - doesn’t resemble anything?
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 31 August 2013 12: 38 New
          +4
          ok, we accept your version. A handful of unemployed started the revolution. Now the question is, what kind of state do you need to have to be ruined by a couple of dozen unemployed?
          “They didn’t start, but the leader of the world proletariat (with comrades)” - well, then? Started and? Did they rely on whom? ..and then an unemployed neighbor passed by and a man burned his house and began to make a revolution.
          1. olegff68
            olegff68 31 August 2013 13: 16 New
            0
            Quote: fartfraer
            they relied on whom? with whose hands did?

            Probably relied on the Tambov peasants (thousands of Antonov uprising), the Krnstadt sailors, workers of the Ural factories and the second half of the population participating in the Civil, and maybe on German money and the hands of thousands of misguided people ???
            By the way, you can minus it to the blue color - the fact MILLIONS of ruined lives as a result of the "revolution"
            1. Lacoste
              Lacoste 31 August 2013 13: 21 New
              +1
              And how do you like the fact - millions of ruined lives from injustice and intolerable living conditions? Prefer not to remember them? Well, then let's think about a meaningless war for the interests of others. Didn’t they kill people on it? And for what?
              1. olegff68
                olegff68 31 August 2013 14: 03 New
                +2
                Quote: Lacoste
                And how do you like the fact - millions of ruined lives from injustice and intolerable living conditions?

                What are you about ???
                We need to have the courage and face the truth - before the revolution in Russia, ordinary people were by no means easy, but the revolution itself did not bring relief to the people, plunging the country into chaos and making millions of sacrifices. Only when we understand that the best is the evolutionary path of development, and not the revolutionary one, we will protect ourselves from the next “collapse” and other “91 coups”.
                1. Lacoste
                  Lacoste 31 August 2013 14: 14 New
                  +6
                  I agree, but at that time there were a handful of people who owned everything, and there was a mass that did not own anything (in fact they owned it). So this mass rose against that injustice, and ultimately won. Yes, at the cost of losses. But then they built a great power, and the level of life in the years 60-70-80 was good enough for most.
                  1. olegff68
                    olegff68 31 August 2013 15: 35 New
                    0
                    Quote: Lacoste
                    I agree, but at that time there were a handful of people who owned everything, and there was a mass that did not own anything (in fact they owned it).

                    What fundamentally changed then? -Distributed the land to the peasants, and the factories to the workers ???

                    Quote: Lacoste
                    So this mass rose up against that injustice

                    This "mass" was "helped" by all sorts of "intelligentsia", traveling around villages and factories and campaigning.
                    Quote: Lacoste
                    and ultimately won. Yes, at the cost of losses.

                    COLOSSLOSS LOSSES and victory can not be called !!!! In the end, the victory of whom ??? - their fellow citizens, of those millions who were against ???

                    Quote: Lacoste
                    But then they built a great power, and the level of life in the years 60-70-80 was good enough for most.

                    Yes it's true !!!
                    But who knows how we would live in these same years if these losses, shocks, millions of victims and the country's fall to the bottom did not exist !!!
                    1. fartfraer
                      fartfraer 31 August 2013 16: 26 New
                      0
                      “But who knows how we would live in those same years, without these losses, shocks, millions of victims and the country's fall to the very bottom !!!” - 1mv fell to the bottom of the country, but that was before the revolution
                    2. Lacoste
                      Lacoste 31 August 2013 18: 06 New
                      +2
                      What fundamentally changed then? -Distributed the land to the peasants, and the factories to the workers ???

                      Relative social equality has appeared.
                      This "mass" was "helped" by all sorts of "intelligentsia", traveling around villages and factories and campaigning.

                      Helped, so what?
                      COLOSSLOSS LOSSES and victory can not be called !!!! In the end, the victory of whom ??? - their fellow citizens, of those millions who were against ???

                      There were not very many against (relatively red), and the principle of majority has not been canceled. In this I see justice.
                      But who knows how we would live in these same years if these losses, shocks, millions of victims and the country's fall to the bottom did not exist !!!

                      But it was not necessary to bring the country to a state in which it could slide to the bottom.
                      1. olegff68
                        olegff68 31 August 2013 18: 51 New
                        0
                        In no way am I trying to belittle the achievements of the USSR, of which the masses (education, science, etc.) ... I consider the collapse of this state to be our biggest loss.
                        And yet :
                        Quote: Lacoste

                        Relative social equality has appeared.

                        You correctly wrote - relative: The films "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears", etc. , "Come tomorrow" - the main character has a house. a worker of mine. My friend, the son of the collective farm chairman, told me that they stopped going to the house to clean up and just hitch a meal for food in the 40s
                        Quote: Lacoste

                        Helped, so what?

                        Who helped and for what ??? In Libya, the "people" also helped to understand something, although they lived in my opinion better than in Europe and the United States.

                        Quote: Lacoste

                        There were not very many against (relatively red), and the principle of majority has not been canceled. In this I see justice.

                        Who told you this (about the majority and about not very much) ???
                        Maybe you tell us that in the 91st there was a majority. I want to upset you - and then in the 91st the majority simply wanted a quiet life and did not intervene, for which they paid.

                        Quote: Lacoste

                        But it was not necessary to bring the country to a state in which it could slide to the bottom.

                        I agree to all 100, but they only brought it up, someone took advantage of the moment, campaigned, raised and all suffered.
                        And don’t you think that the Communists brought the country to a state where it could sink to the bottom in the 91st, or did someone help ???
                      2. Lacoste
                        Lacoste 31 August 2013 22: 45 New
                        +2
                        You correctly wrote - relative: The films "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears", etc. , "Come tomorrow" - the main character has a house. a worker of mine. My friend, the son of the collective farm chairman, told me that they stopped going to the house to clean up and just hitch a meal for food in the 40s

                        I hope you do not think that it is possible to create absolute social equality? But you can strive for this. And in the USSR, in my opinion, this equality was much greater.
                        Who helped and for what ??? In Libya, the "people" also helped to understand something, although they lived in my opinion better than in Europe and the United States.

                        Surely I don’t know this and I won’t say it, but the fact is that in the end it turned out to be one of the greatest countries in history.
                        Who told you this (about the majority and about not very much) ???
                        Maybe you tell us that in the 91st there was a majority. I want to upset you - and then in the 91st the majority simply wanted a quiet life and did not intervene, for which they paid.

                        Look at least the number of armies (I already wrote below).
                        The whole difference is that in the 91st people were full and satisfied with their lives. When a person has something to lose, he will sit at home and look from the side. But apparently then there was already nothing to lose on one side, and the other, on the contrary, could lose everything. This also resulted in a massacre.
                        I agree to all 100, but they only brought it up, someone took advantage of the moment, campaigned, raised and all suffered.
                        And don’t you think that the Communists brought the country to a state where it could sink to the bottom in the 91st, or did someone help ???

                        It was just the rulers and the top who brought it, and someone seized the moment and the storm went. After all, someone always wants to be in power, and the task of the current government is to prevent this.
                        I think that fools in power, of which we had plenty, brought the country, and again, some took advantage of the moment ...
                2. Pilat2009
                  Pilat2009 31 August 2013 19: 33 New
                  0
                  Quote: Lacoste
                  I agree, but at that time there were a bunch of people who owned everything, and there was a mass that did not own anything

                  Doesn’t it remind today?
                  1. Lacoste
                    Lacoste 31 August 2013 22: 45 New
                    +1
                    Doesn’t it remind today?

                    Reminds me how.
                3. Egor.nic
                  Egor.nic 2 September 2013 16: 39 New
                  0
                  What do you call a good standard of living - from pay to pay with a total deficit?
              2. rexby63
                rexby63 31 August 2013 20: 12 New
                0
                Maybe yes. I agree.
          2. smile
            smile 31 August 2013 14: 24 New
            +1
            olegff68
            Yes. fact millions of ruined lives as a result of a civil war not unleashed by the Reds. They were actually a defending party.
            By the way, the Kronstadt sailors are precisely those who shot officers in February 17 (which the Bolsheviks had nothing to do with) and who regularly organized riots. One of the series of which was the Krondstadsky rebellion.
            The Tambov rebellion is a continuation of riots. which began to appear on a massive scale there since the end of the year 16. Good rebels were led by professional cannibals and bandits, deserters of all stripes ... or some kind of hoe of that time. as Comrade Goblin put it, good peasants with bestial cruelty destroyed those unkind Tambov peasants who dared to support the Reds ... it's just the apotheosis of banditry ....
            Well. etc ... some strange people in white, don’t you? :))) Maybe that's why half of the General Staff of the Republic of Ingushetia and more than a third of the officer corps of the Republic of Ingushetia went to the Red Army? Maybe that's why the red won?
            Regarding the Tambovites, I really liked Goblin's statements about the film "There Was One Woman" ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlkFx73weMI
            1. olegff68
              olegff68 31 August 2013 15: 08 New
              0
              Quote: smile

              The Tambov rebellion is a continuation of riots. which began to appear on a massive scale there since the end of the year 16. Good rebels were led by professional cannibals and bandits, deserters of all stripes ... or some kind of hoe of that time. as Comrade Goblin put it, good peasants with bestial cruelty destroyed those unkind Tambov peasants who dared to support the Reds ... it's just the apotheosis of banditry ....

              First, I already wrote-chaos!
              2) Not everything is clear - bandits and deserters of all stripes were on both sides (and among the "commissars" too)
              3) In Tambov province (the territory of modern Tambov, Lipetsk, parts of Voronezh and Penza regions), Raskulachivans were carried out with incredible scope and cruelty - sometimes whole villages exterminated (in their place potatoes are now planted)
              4) The wave of dispossession for a long time could not be stopped from above.
              etc. ...
              1. smile
                smile 31 August 2013 16: 54 New
                0
                olegff68
                The first two points, I agree.
                Otherwise, there was a civil war in the country, in large cities people were dying of hunger. The fists did not deliver food in the throat. This forced the restoration of the surplus appropriation adopted under the tsar. armed resistance arose, led by absolute cannibals such as hoes and various figures frenzied with blood, who simply slaughtered supporters of the Government. It was necessary not to touch the sacred private property - and let millions of people die in large cities. the remnants of industry will die, just not to touch the gangs of various chieftains? Antonovtsy themselves in the blood of fellow villagers to the ears ... Naturally. after the suppression of the rebellion there continued the persecution of its participants, who were not at all lambs ... naturally, while a crowd of innocents suffered, just like that. as well as at the hands of Antonovites and white knights ... but this is a civil war, and pouring mud on yourself because the Power saved millions of people from starvation, and the state itself, having dealt with gangster freedoms, I would not ...
                and what they couldn’t stop from above, it’s understandable, at first the Antonov bandits ruled there, spilling a sea of ​​blood from the villagers and not only, then those who they slaughtered, also not suffering from humanism, came upstairs and the vendetta began for families, for friends , for taking away .... I repeat, this is a civil war, what do you want ....
                1. olegff68
                  olegff68 31 August 2013 17: 14 New
                  +1
                  Quote: smile
                  olegff68
                  The first two points, I agree.
                  Otherwise, there was a civil war in the country, in large cities people were dying of hunger. The fists did not deliver food in the throat. This forced the restoration of the surplus appraisal adopted under the tsar ..... I repeat, this is a civil war, what do you want ....

                  Everything mixed up, horses, people ...
                  Dispossession of money began in the 30s, hundreds of thousands of peasants became officially its victims, almost any peasant could get on the list of kulaks compiled on the ground. On the ground, often to ensure an accelerated rate of dispossession, the middle peasants and “low-power peasants” were dispossessed. The decision to stop dispossession was made in the 32nd, but it continued for a long time on the "initiative from below" (the neighbor who was eager to take possession of your property simply wrote a denunciation on you that they say the fist and the concealer)
                  I repeat - not everything is clear and the country got out of this chaos for a long time, without gaining anything positive but the desire of people to rally around the idea, but with whose supply this chaos arose is an open question !!!
                  1. smile
                    smile 31 August 2013 19: 25 New
                    +3
                    olegff68
                    You rightly faked me here. :))) I admit, I thought you were mistaken and started talking about the seizure of food, livestock from peasants, and in some places and other property to create communes, it was just about the Tambov uprising. I did not cling, I did not think that you want to divert the discussion to the side ... :)))
                    there were over 85 percent of peasants in the country. There is no industry. Education is only being restored. There are not enough workers to support the ongoing activities of a miserable industry, not that before the industrial breakthrough that saved us in the Second World War. Question. where to get hands from? And on the nose of the war, we have a super-hostile environment, Entente enemies, Japan, the strongest countries on the planet that do not hide their aggressive intentions. On all borders without exception, there are regular clashes with the dispatched DRGs and entire detachments ..... What should I do?
                    The only way out is to transfer agriculture to collective ones, to increase the effectiveness of introducing the use of technology there (it is more difficult with individual students). and use your vacant hands for Industrialization.
                    Naturally, this caused some resistance, including armed ... do not forget about that. that the Civil War ended relatively recently ... what. all convinced enemies at once became good citizens? Also, do not forget that at that time, due to the fact that there was no other choice, everything was done-to break, at all costs, by people fierce over the long war ... mentalities .... and this is the result .... by the way, then that acted on the gap, as it turned out, was absolutely justified ... although this is not a bright streak of our history .... what can you do.
                    I agree with your conclusion - not everything is clear, which is why, I think, you should not sprinkle ash on your head ....
                    1. olegff68
                      olegff68 31 August 2013 22: 35 New
                      +1
                      Quote: smile

                      I agree with your conclusion - not everything is clear, which is why, I think, you should not sprinkle ash on your head ....

                      No one sprinkles it. I only suggest not shouting about the sanctity of the leadership and wisdom of the people who made the right choice, but soberly evaluating events and drawing conclusions, so as not to step on the same rake in the future, because we are being pushed on them !!!
                    2. smile
                      smile 1 September 2013 01: 27 New
                      0
                      olegff68

                      Well, if so, I agree with you.
                      Whose filing? If simplified, the Entente.

                      The holiness of the leadership, for no reason ... but sometimes the only right decisions must be recognized if we want to be objective ... including unpleasant ...
                      Findings? Fine! -bog - to the count! so as not to repeat the mistakes of history .... :))))) It is also time to stop moaning. what is worse there is no us and our history .... :)))
                      I listed everything correctly, didn’t forget anything? :)))

                      In general, of course, it is necessary to correct the situation in the country, but there is a positive trend ... unfortunately, not as fast as you want ... you need to accelerate ... that's it! Rocking a land of death is like ....
                2. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 56 New
                  0
                  It should also be added that quite often the kulaks themselves were dispossessed of both other competing kulaks and the poor.
          3. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 3 September 2013 12: 54 New
            0
            Quote: smile
            Maybe that's why half of the General Staff of the Republic of Ingushetia and more than a third of the officer corps of the Republic of Ingushetia went to the Red Army?

            I wonder how many of them survived by the year 41?
            The same Brusilov went to serve in red after he sat for 2 months in a jail
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 59 New
              0
              “Brusilov went to serve in the red after he spent 2 months in the jail” - two clarifications: Brusilov did not sit in the jail, but in the Kremlin and went to serve in the red a year and a half after his release.
            2. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 5 November 2013 17: 04 New
              0
              No one knows how many officers survived by 1941. I have counted 241 people to date. Of these, 6-generals of the old army, 7-white officers, 5-white soldiers. Of the 241 military on June 21.06.1941, 14, there were XNUMX colonels, the rest were higher.
        2. fartfraer
          fartfraer 31 August 2013 14: 32 New
          +1
          "maybe with German money and with the hands of thousands of misguided people ???" - how do you prove that everything is bad if everything is fine? No way. So there were "shoals" that the revolutionaries played on. I recall before the 17th was unsuccessful attempt (in 1905), I recall that the riots of the peasants were under the king (Stolypin suppressed).
          “By the way, you can minus to the blueness - the fact MILLIONS of ruined lives as a result of the“ revolution ”- I don’t have a habit to minus, but as for the revolution, nobody says that it was good. By the way, millions of ruined lives arose as early as 1 mV, when the soldier redeemed the king’s debts to the French (including). The revolution is only a consequence of the events taking place then, and not the reason.
        3. Sirocco
          Sirocco 31 August 2013 15: 39 New
          +3
          Quote: olegff68
          , and maybe with German money and the hands of thousands of misguided people ???

          Here you hit the bullseye. Organized sabotage, including in the Navy, intimidating Coca, added all kinds of food "seasoning", after which naturally a riot on the ship. Well, the main reason for the revolution (analogous to the modern golden youth) is
          From the work May Day of the Revolutionary Proletariat (1913) by V. I. Lenin (1870-1924): “For the revolution, it is not enough that the lower classes do not want to live as before. It also requires that the tops cannot manage and manage, as before. ”
        4. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 52 New
          0
          And last but not least, on Tambov peasants - it was the Tambov province that took one of the first places in the pogrom of landlord estates both in 1905 and 1917.
      2. olegff68
        olegff68 31 August 2013 13: 43 New
        +2
        Quote: fartfraer
        ok, accept your version. A handful of unemployed started the revolution.

        In the 91st coup (it cannot be called otherwise) and the dismemberment of the Union, a handful of traitors turned on no one at all, relying on them against the will of the people. Their support then was a miserable bunch of worthless things, chanting "Yeltsin, Yeltsin" - but this "revolution" also took place, in your opinion it should also be called popular ???
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 31 August 2013 14: 26 New
          +1
          “In the 91st coup (there is no other name) and the dismemberment of the Union, a handful of traitors did not rely on anyone at all, contrary to the will of the people.” - At that time they won (fuck with him) thanks to the betrayal of senior leadership, the army and the Ministry of Internal Affairs and people were no longer communists at the beginning of the USSR, they changed ideas for jeans. i.e. the indifference of the people (who by that time had already not lived as well as one might think) and the betrayal of the relevant structures destroyed the USSR in the first place. And this fault (first of all) is not ebony, but the then authorities. (meaning the Central Committee and Gorbachev)
      3. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 31 August 2013 19: 31 New
        +2
        Quote: fartfraer
        they relied on whom? with whose hands did?

        Hands of all kinds of lumpen, Latvian shooters and other mercenaries.
        Quote: Lacoste
        millions of ruined lives from injustice and intolerable living conditions?

        Well, in more detail, how many people were lost a hundred years before the revolution and a hundred years after? Unbearable conditions for keeping the enemies of power, a link to Siberia for 2-5 years, from where they safely escaped. Well, I did not argue about outright terrorists. Compare with the Gulag
        Quote: Lacoste
        about the senseless war for the interests of others

        What do you propose to sit and watch as Germany kills France and comes to visit? It was already in 1941
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 31 August 2013 22: 17 New
          +1
          "With the hands of all kinds of lumpen, Latvian shooters and other mercenaries." it is strange that a great empire collapsed under the blows of a division (scattered, scattered over the vast territory of the country) of foreign soldiers and their "lumpen". strange you allowed the option.
          “What do you propose to sit and watch Germany kill France and come to visit?” - you would be interested in history in general. The Russian tsar and emperor of the Germans were relatives, moreover, they maintained good relations. And for the French they entered the war for many reasons (for example, RI had money to France) if the emperor of Russia did not get into debt with his policy, then RI would have every chance to maintain neutrality, but could even act on the side of the Germans. but debt obligations left no choice.
          ". Compare with the Gulag," how many political prisoners were there in the Gulag? About the same time as there were in modern Russia (and less than in modern states, well, just as an example)
        2. Lacoste
          Lacoste 31 August 2013 22: 51 New
          +2
          Well, in more detail, how many people were lost a hundred years before the revolution and a hundred years after? Unbearable conditions for keeping the enemies of power, a link to Siberia for 2-5 years, from where they safely escaped. Well, I did not argue about outright terrorists. Compare with the Gulag

          Alas, you won’t find such data, because how can you count the dead from living conditions? Well, do not compare a couple of decades under Stalin with links to centuries of life under the kings.
          What do you propose to sit and watch as Germany kills France and comes to visit? It was already in 1941

          There are two differences: the people's war and the war for the interests of others. So one war strengthens the state, and the other, as it turned out, is falling apart.
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 1 September 2013 00: 05 New
            0
            Quote: Lacoste
            Well, do not compare a couple of decades under Stalin with links to centuries of life under the kings.

            And who gave birth to Stalin? System.
            I suggest you not compare centuries, but the last 100 years of decaying Russia with the first 100 years of prosperous
            Quote: Lacoste
            and war for the interests of others

            Having strong Germany at hand was frightening, given Schlieffen’s plan, and kinship on a long line didn’t mean anything. Brezhnev also kissed everyone, but there was a cold war. So the interests were far from alien. Broken Germany gave 24 years of respite
            Quote: fartfraer
            and for the French entered the war for many reasons

            see above, what prevented Germany from defeating France to come to visit? Kaiser was certainly a sweetheart, but Hitler was friends with us at first. Moreover, the war on two fronts was Germany’s fatal mistake in both wars. Kaiser had to kiss Nikolai with terrible force prevent war with Russia ..
            Quote: fartfraer
            and how many political prisoners were there in the Gulag?

            And how many political prisoners were there in 1917? So, for fun? And how many death sentences were under the rotting regime and prosperous?
            Softness killed the king, my friend
            1. fartfraer
              fartfraer 1 September 2013 06: 17 New
              0
              "see above, what prevented Germany from defeating France to come to visit?" - and what prevented France from doing the same? Incidentally, they did this repeatedly (Napoleon, military aid to the Turks, siege of Sevastopal), and before Hitler, Germany attacked many times Russia?
              "Softness killed the king, my friend," agrees on this, son. Young man, you think. Softness and misunderstanding of how his people live and how they breathe.
    2. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 1 November 2013 17: 50 New
      0
      The fact that "the leader of the world proletariat ... did not work for a day" is a lie. And when he lived in Germany, she was not an enemy of Russia.
  9. Proud.
    Proud. 31 August 2013 13: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: m262
    What for the proletarians started a revolution incomprehensibly !!!

    Aha. Was there no February revolution? What for liberal-bourgeois circles started a revolution?
  10. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 4 November 2013 07: 33 New
    0
    This is where it says "In People"? Gorky's mother died before he went "to the people." He received his first salary of -8 rubles after working on a steamboat, but there’s nothing about drinking and renting a room. He began to smoke at this time, yes.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 31 August 2013 19: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Nagan
    which, according to Marx, there was "nothing to lose but their chains." But he, it turns out, in addition to bread and water, he could well afford meat

    Man’s eternal desire for the best, as exemplified in the 90s when the EBN arranged another restructuring
  • ramsi
    ramsi 31 August 2013 09: 44 New
    +6
    and how many hours did the workers work?
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 31 August 2013 19: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: ramsi
      and how many hours did the workers work?

      And how many hours are they working in private enterprises now?
      1. 7ydmco
        7ydmco 31 August 2013 23: 03 New
        0
        I don’t know, enlighten.
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 1 September 2013 00: 09 New
          0
          Quote: 7ydmco
          I don’t know, enlighten.

          I fortunately work for the state
          but you ask those who work for a private trader. And most importantly, ask if he likes it or not, maybe he has a big salary and he works for joy
  • Proud.
    Proud. 31 August 2013 10: 12 New
    +3
    "... Salaries and prices until 1917 ...". For the sake of completeness, it was worth showing the salaries and prices of the Soviet period, until 1991, although inflation was crazy at the end of the 80s. And the worker-worker is different, and the data in others sources differ, and you need to start from the cost of a particular product, not from the “big poppy index” of course. For example, from the cost of bread or potatoes. Here you can see http://opoccuu.com/wages.htm and here, http: // www. opoccuu.com/zhal.htm
  • sichevik
    sichevik 31 August 2013 11: 08 New
    +3
    But which of the swamp hamsters are revolutionaries? Just raging with fat, scum. Most of them went to the marsh to hang out. All kinds of parties, clubs. Bars and taverns are tired, so they found a new entertainment.
    Ksyusha was so cute (God forbid that I would dream at night - you can stay a stutter for life), she also took up politics. whatever they forget about her. That would often flash in the media. They now have a new creative brand - the opposition movement. It is so stylish and fashionable ...
    1. fartfraer
      fartfraer 31 August 2013 11: 27 New
      +2
      namely, the revolution is not done by the office. So who made the revolution in the 17th? the peasants who lived well and snickered? precisely, they just didn’t live as well as they say, apparently. otherwise they would not overthrow the "tsar-father "and after the interim government.
  • Alexey M
    Alexey M 31 August 2013 11: 11 New
    +2
    Plus, the author for the work. I put the pluses for the work for all authors of the articles. I must respect the work. I don’t know the text.
  • Buran
    31 August 2013 11: 36 New
    +4
    The article was not laid out as a contrast to the USSR, but informatively. No one claims that somewhere is good, but somewhere is bad. As for the 1917 revolution, the revolutionary situation was heated first by the Russo-Japanese, and then the First World War.
  • rereture
    rereture 31 August 2013 11: 57 New
    +5
    , from the category of how we once lived well, let's now see what the working conditions were: in many factories there are cramped and unheated rooms, hard physical work, the working day is 11-13 hours, including for children and for women. There were no social guarantees. We also forgot to write about taxes.
  • Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 31 August 2013 12: 10 New
    +3
    It was good, it was bad. Everything must be appreciated in our Fatherland, Motherland, in order to continue to prevent mistakes made. The Anglo-Saxons have repeatedly blown up our country, finding scum in it. If we know the past, the present and the future will be brighter. You can harass me, but I appreciate Lenin’s grandfather. Yes, he actively set fire to the country by revolution, but then he threw the Anglo-Saxons and gathered it not only back, but more powerful and confident in the future. If Putin could learn from anyone, from Lenin and Stalin, then he would also be remembered for centuries as a great creator. And now .... what now? How can I appreciate him if his subordinates say such things: - "The drawback (!) Of the Soviet education system was an attempt to form a human creator, and now the challenge is to nurture a qualified consumer who can use the results of the creativity of others." This was said by the Minister of Education Fursenko. The quote is from S. Kremlyov’s book “Stolen Russia”. And what Gaidar said everyone already knows. Here are such zagagulins.
  • Buran
    31 August 2013 12: 11 New
    +1
    No people, I wanted to post info about s / n, now purely from the principle I will try to collect the full article.
    PS Who do not mind throwing links
  • varov14
    varov14 31 August 2013 12: 21 New
    +2
    So an article about what, how well we lived before the revolution, or that, even thanks to the high oil prices, we cannot reach that level? So, presumably, the current government is even more anti-people? And if, if in the USSR and the current oil prices, now would there be communism?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 31 August 2013 12: 22 New
    0
    The author would have known in his spare time how the worker really lived at that time, then you will look at the stupid questions about why the king was not expelled.
  • Alfonso
    Alfonso 31 August 2013 12: 54 New
    +1
    The books "Bunches of Wrath" and "People of the Abyss" write somewhat differently about the workers of those times.
  • Larus
    Larus 31 August 2013 13: 07 New
    +2
    We still consider the average wage in the country, at all. And if you take 8% of the richest, what will it be real, but it is not profitable.
    And do not forget that at that time Russia was an agrarian country and the majority of the population lived just in the villages and why I constantly encounter links that the urban population lived at that time.
  • vladim.gorbunow
    vladim.gorbunow 31 August 2013 15: 16 New
    +3
    The focus on urban earnings is easy to explain. Russian grain, bought in excess of cheap from the manufacturer, was returned to Russia in the form of flour produced in German electrified mills. The grain lobby, or rather the mafia, consisting of the royal family, representatives of state power, bankers, merchants, landowners needed at least some kind of public support. Therefore, 10-15% of the population are city dwellers, users of the Golden Ruble actually bribed. The village was offered a 37-year cf. life span. All this grace was based on foreign loans. Ext. debt for 14 years - 4,5 billion gold rubles. Hence the insane urge to conquer Constantinople and the loss of sovereignty. The elite was not interested in the development of the country. If the grain is replaced with hydrocarbons, then it looks like today. And further. Not everything is measured in money. President of the Russian Federation Yeltsin B.N. 01. 02.1931 was born in the "RODDOM" of the village of Budka, Ural Region. Was there a maternity hospital in Booth in 1913?
    1. Uzoliv
      Uzoliv 31 August 2013 18: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: vladim.gorbunow
      Russian grain, bought in excess of cheap from the manufacturer, was returned to Russia in the form of flour produced in German electrified mills.

      In 1903, there were 30000 mills in Russia, of which 1850 were steam mills (industrial production). The range of flour was varied 8-10 varieties. In Europe at that time 3-4 grades. The quality was excellent. My fellow countrymen of Nizhny Novgorod for the quality of flour received gold medals at the Nizhny Novgorod Fair. They began to enter foreign markets: 1904 World Exhibition in Vienna - Big Gold Medal; 1905 World Exhibition in Paris - Big Medal; 1906 World Exhibition in London - Grand Prix. These are the pies (well, that is, flour).
      And further.
      Quote: vladim.gorbunow
      The elite was not interested in the development of the country.

      A paradoxical situation is obtained. For several centuries, the Russian Empire was rebuilt. Our ancestors are mastering, conquering, building, exploring, strengthening - in a word they are doing business. Even under Nicholas 2, Russia is trying to gain a foothold in the Far East. You know this unsuccessful war. By the way, about the Far East, from 1891 to 1916 the Trans-Siberian Railway was built - exclusively with state money, and this is a construction site of the century.
      Well, something like this.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 31 August 2013 19: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: vladim.gorbunow
      Was there a maternity hospital in Booth in 1913?

      So he wasn’t there in 1213, then there weren’t any maternity hospitals, they did it on their own. Maybe you still ask why there was no penicillin in 1913?
  • trenkkvaz
    trenkkvaz 31 August 2013 16: 29 New
    +6
    A very stupid way to determine the ratio of tsarist to modern rubles through the exchange rate of gold.
    The price of gold, prices relative to gold are changing all the time. Especially after 100 years.
    The ratio of money is determined by the ratio of prices.
    Example: No one will argue that wheat flour is the most important product, and the price determines it accordingly.
    Wheat flour 0,08 p. (8 kopecks) = 1 pound (0,4 kg)
    That is, 1 kg of flour cost 20 kopecks.
    I don’t know where, but in our store 2 kg a bag of wheat flour costs 50 rubles.
    That is 25 rubles per 1 kg.
    Now compare.
    It turns out 1 ruble of the empire is equal to 125 modern rubles.
    And we are rubbed here about 1200-odd rubles.smile
    It’s clear that you need to compare across a large group of goods. But still, the ratio will not work in any way even close to 1000 rubles.
    1. fartfraer
      fartfraer 31 August 2013 16: 41 New
      +4
      do not disappoint the monarchists.
    2. aviamed90
      aviamed90 31 August 2013 19: 17 New
      +3
      trenkkvaz

      Fair thought.

      And about gold and silver ...
      Numismatists, for example, use the 1: 550 ratio.
    3. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 31 August 2013 21: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: trenkkvaz
      Gold price, gold prices change all the time

      So the products also change. Including depending on the costs. If in 1913 the price was determined based on the size of the cost of feeding a horse, then now a golden gasoline comes out + a chain of intermediaries. So all this is relative ....
  • mithridate
    mithridate 31 August 2013 16: 47 New
    +3
    Was it good under the king? The question is stupid. There were those who lived very well, and there were those (there were many more) who lived much worse. Therefore, discontent, riots, etc.
  • Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 31 August 2013 16: 57 New
    +4
    When I tell my son that I went to a restaurant in the 80s and was full and drunk for 5 rubles, he laughs and says, but you bought jeans for 200. Each has its own priorities.
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 31 August 2013 17: 46 New
    +1
    Everyone lived so well. And so they made a revolution.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 31 August 2013 21: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: ImPerts
      Everyone lived so well. And so they made a revolution.

      Primary school teachers staged a revolution !!! Their salary was lower than that of the senior janitor! So they and the kids carried out propaganda, and then they grew up, went to universities, and away we go .... laughing
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 1 September 2013 07: 18 New
        0
        Quote: Egoza
        and then they grew up, went to universities, and away we go ...

        This is what will you need to have ?! :-)
        1. vkrav
          vkrav 1 September 2013 15: 16 New
          0
          This is what will you need to have ?! :-)

          People! :)
          1. ImPerts
            ImPerts 1 September 2013 16: 01 New
            0
            And patience :-)
  • yacht
    yacht 31 August 2013 17: 53 New
    +3
    The last two decades of the Russian Empire are continuous strikes, strikes and barricades.
    I want to remind the singers of tsarist Russia that people will not go to the barricades from bullets from one propaganda, you will not raise a well-fed and satisfied hard worker against the tsar-father. Stop lying about the jelly banks and dairy rivers in Tsarist Russia. There are a lot of testimonies of contemporaries of that era about how the people actually lived in that difficult time.
  • pinecone
    pinecone 31 August 2013 17: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
    And I want to ask, why did these workers who received good salaries support the revolution?


    Not all. The workers of Izhevsk and Votkinsk defense plants went into the army of Kolchak to fight against the Bolsheviks.
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 2 November 2013 15: 12 New
      0
      But they fought for Soviet power!
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 2 November 2013 15: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
        They fought for Soviet power!
        I came across eyewitness accounts that the junior command staff and privates changed the "star on shoulder straps and back" up to 5 times. For to replenish their ranks in the conditions of a country engulfed by the civil war, otherwise there was simply ANYTHING more ... request
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 5 November 2013 17: 15 New
          0
          It’s understandable that there were shustriks who constantly carried a certificate of mobilization in the Red Army in one pocket and a white one in the other. It was important not to confuse the pockets in captivity. Speech about another - Izhevsk soldiers, serving with Kolchak, fought under the RED banner for Soviet power. But against the Bolsheviks. Ie for the tsarist regime, under which they seemed to live well, they did not want to fight.
  • aviamed90
    aviamed90 31 August 2013 18: 29 New
    0
    Information for thought.

    “Currently, numismatists are increasingly interested in the value of the tsar’s ruble. In fact, it’s quite difficult to find out the exact value, since it can vary depending on the current exchange rate. Nevertheless, you can calculate the approximate price.

    To find out the price for the Tsar’s ruble, you need to choose the right calculation method. For example, today a comparison based on the gold content of the tsar’s ruble is popular. But modern currencies have no connection with gold since the 1970's. It has long become an ordinary commodity, and its price is determined mainly by speculative factors, which is why when using this technique, too high values ​​are obtained. The calculation of the value of the tsar ruble should begin with determining the dollar exchange rate at that time. For example, in 1913, it was 1 ruble 94,5 kopecks, that is, the ruble was equal to 0,514 dollars. Given the above price difference, it is easy to guess that at that time on 1 ruble it was possible to purchase the same amount of goods as on 1,36 and above dollars. Currently, the average annual price level in the country is higher than in 1913 more than 20 times. And if we take into account the current inflation, then at the end of 2012 - the beginning of 2013 of the year, the cost of the tsar’s ruble 1913 of the year is 510 - 585 rubles. The latest estimate is based on a comparison of food prices in the United States and in Russia during the tsarist era. But even if we make a general comparison of prices in our country 1913 and 2012 of the year, we get a value equal to approximately 627 rubles. The difference with the previously obtained number is less than 10%, which confirms the accuracy and reliability of the calculations. Next, you can take the arithmetic average between the available estimates at the dollar exchange rate and get the exact value of the coin at the moment.Thus, the 1 tsar ruble of the 1913 model of the year at the beginning of 2013 can be estimated at about 550 modern rubles, speaking of the consumer basket as a whole. If we talk only about the food basket, then the value of the coin will be approximately 610 rubles, given the ratio of food prices in the United States and Russia in 1913 and now, as well as the level of inflation. "

    (site "kakproisto.ru", article "How much is the royal ruble", 17.01.2013)
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 31 August 2013 18: 31 New
      0
      Here is what I found. Very interesting book.

      "Reference book for Russian officers" (compiled by the highest command of the General Staff, General Mayor Makhotin, St. Petersburg, 1875)

      Monetary allowance of an officer with the rank of "ensign" (now "junior lieutenant"):

      Basic salary (per year), type "B" (for all other regiments):
      - 300 rub. (main)
      - 294 rub. (net of 2,5% for hospitals and doctors)
      - 276 rub. (6% more to the emit cashier)

      OR

      Reinforced salary (per year) (type "B" (for all other regiments)) (Transcaucasia, the Black Sea, Amur, Primorsky, Sukhum Terek Regions, Dagestan, Kuban, Turkestan, the Chinese border; students of academies; members of the royal family accompanying them abroad) :
      - 450 rub. (main)
      - 441 rub. (net of 2,5% for hospitals and doctors)
      - 414 rub. (6% more to the emit cashier)

      + Additional content:
      - for those who do not receive table money - 12-216 rub. per year (depending on the area)
      - additionally paid in the remote regions of Eastern Siberia - 60-120 rub. per year (depending on the area)
      - on special provisions

      + Table money (Transcaucasia, the Black Sea, Amur, Primorsky, Sukhum Terek regions, Dagestan, Kuban, Turkestan, the Chinese border) - 144-240 rubles per year.

      Partion (per diem for meals in dresses, guards) - 60 cop. per day - 3 rub. per year (depending on the area.)

      + A separate monetary allowance is put on the horse.

      We make simple calculations:

      TOTAL minimum - 35 rubles per month
      TOTAL maximum - 67,5 rub. per month

      For current money:

      from 19250 to 37125 rub. per month.


      The calculation is given when the ratio of 1 ruble 1913 g. To Russian ruble 2012 g. Equal to 1: 550.

      So, the author’s calculations, to put it mildly, are not true.

      And, accordingly, the article - "-".
  • 12061973
    12061973 31 August 2013 20: 45 New
    +2
    I do not need tsarist Russia, as it were, to return the USSR of 70-80 years. A Beria would have invested a time machine so that he would rot the whole Gorbachev family.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. DMB87
      DMB87 1 September 2013 17: 34 New
      +1
      I would divide the history of the USSR into three stages:

      1. Lenin-Trotskyite
      2. Stalin (Power with a capital letter)
      3. The revenge of the Trotskyists (Khrushchev + ...)

      The third stage and led to the collapse of the State.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 7ydmco
    7ydmco 31 August 2013 23: 10 New
    +4
    This is all of course wonderful, the salaries are magnificent, it is only a little incomprehensible how out of 8 children of my distant ancestors only two survived in those days, and why in such a glorious past, my distant relative went to the landowner to work in the garden for 5-7 km, for pottage? Perhaps the author will explain such a paradoxical situation at that time
    1. alone
      alone 31 August 2013 23: 27 New
      +1
      in order to explain this, you must first experience this.
  • Grif
    Grif 1 September 2013 07: 00 New
    0
    Something I did not understand the author. That says that the worker received unreasonable money and right there with a line below -50 kg of meat per month. And now, a worker can’t buy 50 kg of meat?
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 1 September 2013 07: 52 New
    +1
    There is an interesting report on how they ate in 1913 and 1954. Without reference to salaries and the ruble exchange rate to a measure of gold.
    "Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR, Institute of Economics of the USSR Academy of Sciences and Institute of Nutrition of the USSR Academy of Medical Sciences HA Bulganin on the level of per capita consumption of basic food and industrial products in the USSR"
    http://istmat.info/node/18419
    The high salaries described in the article on consumption in the Russian Empire were somehow poorly reflected.
    1. Tver
      Tver 1 September 2013 13: 57 New
      0
      Yes, everything in the article is true. There are no big generalizations. The imbalances simply reached enormous significance and there were no political forces interested in eliminating the distortions. Somewhere densely, somewhere empty ... The economy developed randomly.
  • sashka
    sashka 1 September 2013 08: 00 New
    0
    "Insidious" article.))) Lenin liked to buy a lamb on weekends or in exile. The State paid for it .. And a cow cost 5 (five) rubles. The salary of a university graduate reached 250 (two hundred and fifty) rubles .Awful times ... Only revolution and arrange
  • chenia
    chenia 1 September 2013 10: 51 New
    +1
    Quote: Sasha
    "Insidious" article.))) Lenin liked to buy a lamb on weekends or in exile. The State paid for it .. And a cow cost 5 (five) rubles. The salary of a university graduate reached 250 (two hundred and fifty) rubles .Awful times ... Only revolution and arrange


    Yes, most people (judging by the comments) have weak analytical skills. Russia 75% of the rural population (and about the same percentage of illiterates).

    And of course, more or less skilled workers, artisans could live well (though it was especially problematic to get out higher).

    Now think about how to hunch back to raise a bull, a cow or other animals, and then to give for a penny.

    At the same time, up to 40% of peasant recruits in their life tried meat only in the army.

    I understand that most members of the forum are descendants of nobles and lawyers (well, then it’s clear).

    Or, if you think about it, it will become clear why the Revolution happened.
    1. Tver
      Tver 1 September 2013 13: 51 New
      -5
      Marxist is not a worldview, but a diagnosis
  • sdv68
    sdv68 1 September 2013 13: 35 New
    +5
    1. Workers. The average salary of a worker in Russia was 37.5 rubles. Multiply this amount by 1282,29 (the ratio of the tsarist ruble to the modern) and get the amount of 48085 thousand rubles to the modern conversion.
    And here (http://poltora-bobra.livejournal.com/653398.html) for hard workers in Moscow and Moscow Province are completely different numbers. Here the factory inspection in 1903 does not distinguish laborers and skilled workers. The factory inspection says that the average salary of a worker is 16 rubles / month.



    And 16 rubles / month is still good



    And the workers have good food too



  • vkrav
    vkrav 1 September 2013 14: 01 New
    +2
    Quote: chenia
    And of course, more or less skilled workers, artisans could live well (though it was especially problematic to get out higher).

    That is why, probably, most of the workers lived with families in the barracks at the factories ... Or rented corners ... In my opinion, it is simply incorrect to literally compare the two times completely. Completely different structure and nature of consumption and expenses. Yes and the composition of families differed radically :).
  • stranik72
    stranik72 1 September 2013 14: 29 New
    +5
    Gentlemen, an article about a financial paradise, for army men and workers, crap. The Russian army was not even in the top 5, the most paid armies in Europe. In Turkish, they paid more. Increased salaries were only among the guard officers and at some defense enterprises such as the Putilov factory in St. Petersburg for workers. If everything were so in the Republic of Ingushetia, as the author describes, then the Bolsheviks would be able to defeat the White Army and the Entente countries. Article minus for unreliability.
    1. Tver
      Tver 1 September 2013 14: 42 New
      -4
      That's for sure, about the "financial paradise." I do not like socialists, Marxists and red-bellied theorists, but the reality of the Empire was terrible! The officers lived very, very modestly, and 90% of the population also. The White fought not for mythical wealth, but against the socialist perspectives - the Gulag, dispossession and other swindles. Of course, industrialization, literacy and all that, but also the brutality, degradation of the Russian people - all this 20th century heritage
      1. sdv68
        sdv68 1 September 2013 17: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Tver
        .White fought not for mythical riches, but against socialist prospects - the Gulag, dispossession and other swindles.
        Against the Gulag, you said that correctly. Perhaps that is why they were the first to organize a concentration camp on Solovki. And he already departed to the Gulag much later. Check out the following quote:
        "According to incomplete estimates of civil war researchers in the North, about 52000 people, that is, up to 11% of the total population, went through prisons, concentration camps and hard labor. According to official data from the authorities, about 4000 people were shot by military courts." (Golub P. "White" terror in the North of Russia).
        http://stepanov-karel.livejournal.com/186076.html
        1. Tver
          Tver 1 September 2013 18: 02 New
          -4
          You can not recall the Red Terror, the White (although incomparable things). The thing is in the very principle of SOCIALISM - a person is a unit in the accounting report (option-production unit, combat, camp). If you drive a certain number of peasants into camps, then the remaining will have enough land to feed and still feed the party apparatus. The most intelligent Leninists (the first secretaries of the regional committee of the district committees immediately realized this and now oligarchs and bankers) know this truth well. And do not waste time in vain - forge money. Some truth did not understand that their time had passed and continued to greyhound. But now in prisons (like Khodorkovsky), and after all there were RESERVES of the party. And to hell with them ... But what is so clear for today's Leninists is that it is not clear.
          1. sdv68
            sdv68 1 September 2013 18: 47 New
            +2
            Quote: Tver
            You can not recall the Red Terror, White (although incomparable things).

            And you can compare. Including a comparison is in the book of Golub, which I quoted. But liberals are more easily compared to a liberal wiki. You can compare with her.

            http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Красный_террор

            According to Robert Conquest, total judgments of the Revolutionary Tribunals and extra-judicial meetings of the Cheka in 1917-1922. 140 thousand people were shot.

            The researcher of the history of the Cheka, O. B. Mozokhin, based on archival data, criticized this figure. According to him, “With all the reservations and exaggerations, the number of victims of the Cheka’s organs can be estimated at no more than 50 thousand people”. Also, based on a study of the minutes of meetings of the Extraordinary Commissions, he noted that sentences of capital punishment were the exception rather than the rule, with the majority of those executed being executed for ordinary crimes


            Those. the total number of victims of red terror is calculated in numbers from 50 to 140 thousand people

            Now consider the results of the White Terror - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Russia)

            According to V.V. Erlikhman (liberal historian, by the way) from the "white terror" about 300 thousand people died. This number includes victims of extrajudicial killings of the white forces and governments (approximately 111 thousand people), as well as the victims of foreign invaders and interventionists and the victims of national border regimes that arose as a result of the collapse of the Russian Empire

            So compare from 50 to 140 thousand red terror and more than 300 thousand white

            "Here is such an accounting" (c)
            1. Tver
              Tver 1 September 2013 18: 59 New
              -6
              I wrote that you can not remember the Terror. No remembered. Carrying porridge with juggling numbers here is a favorite technique of the communists and circumcised. The main thing in my post is the basic principle of socialism. And not even that; Where are the first secretaries of the regional committees? Answer: at the head of banks! According to your desire to leave the main topic, I conclude that you are from a “circumcised tribe” or from an Obkom service staff (which is basically the same thing)
              1. vladkavkaz
                vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 19: 24 New
                +1
                Cerebral liberty is not treated, except as surgically, by cutting off the affected process from the body.
                Already a generation of young people was thinking, but in the fig, did such LGM in 90 do something there with the country?
                And what are you thinking about, underpants ?? Wash ...
              2. sdv68
                sdv68 1 September 2013 20: 15 New
                +3
                Quote: Tver
                Carrying porridge with juggling numbers here is a favorite technique of the communists and circumcised.
                Are you talking about liberals screaming about the billions that Stalin personally ate alive? Yes, and you manipulated specific figures from Mendeleev just below. How so ? Remind the old biblical parable "about the log and the speck." Speaking of Mendeleev. The fallacy of his population estimates has long been proven. I will not paint here, because This is the topic of a separate article.
                Quote: Tver
                .And not even that; Where are the first secretaries of the regional committees? Answer: at the head of banks!
                And this only proves that they are under the Communists and under the Democrats in leadership positions. But a locksmith, he is a locksmith under the Communists, and under the Democrats, he is not able to break out into bankers.
                Quote: Tver
                According to your desire to leave the main topic, I conclude that you are from a “circumcised tribe” or from an Obkom service staff (which is basically the same thing)
                Moving on to the person when the argument ends is the liberals' favorite method of conversation.
            2. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 2 September 2013 19: 23 New
              -1
              Quote: sdv68
              This number includes both victims of extrajudicial killings of white troops and governments (approximately 111 thousand people), as well as victims of foreign invaders and interventionists and victims of national border regimes

              You deftly adjusted it. And what about the extrajudicial reprisals of the Reds? Or were they taken to each protocol and handed over to the archive?
              1. sdv68
                sdv68 3 September 2013 13: 50 New
                0
                Quote: Pilat2009
                You deftly fitted it.


                The numbers are not mine, but your liberal wiki. And they differ as much as 3 times.
                Quote: Pilat2009
                Or were they taken to each protocol and handed over to the archive?
                Similar reasoning can be continued on the White Terror.
          2. vladkavkaz
            vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 19: 23 New
            +3
            Tversky
            Reading your posts and blogs, I remembered a very old Soviet joke.
            Scoops are swimming on one side of the river - the liberals and with them Mr. Tverskaya on the opposite.
            - Mr. Tverskaya! You donned your underpants, ”one of the scoops shouted.
            Mr. Tverskoy glanced - indeed, inverted. Surprised by such observant scoops, Mr. Tverskaya shouts to them:
            - Lord scoops! How did you guess? Buttons, or ribbons?
            “Shit out,” came from that shore.
          3. sdv68
            sdv68 1 September 2013 20: 21 New
            +3
            Quote: Tver
            If you drive a certain number of peasants into camps, then the remaining will have enough land to feed and still feed the party apparatus.


            If you calculate the maximum number of party apparatchiks in the USSR, and compare the number of modern officials (actually the same party apparatchiks), then the number there will be many more modern ones (if not orders of magnitude) than in the Union.
  • chenia
    chenia 1 September 2013 15: 10 New
    +5
    Quote: Tver
    I do not like socialists, Marxists and red-bellied theorists,


    Liberast, this is not a diagnosis. It's forever.

    Quote: Tver
    against socialist prospects - the Gulag, dispossession and other swindles.

    And now, without pigs, they lost 60 million people in twenty years and ruins everywhere.
    1. Tver
      Tver 1 September 2013 15: 49 New
      -5
      Ruins can be everywhere in Semi-Poland, but fifth generation generators are being built in Russia. 5 million - and why not a hundred? The main misfortune of socialism is the accumulation of unforgivable sins. Those who have received various benefits from the destruction of the peasants have also received the Cain brand - stupidity and despondency.
      1. fartfraer
        fartfraer 1 September 2013 17: 03 New
        +2
        no forgiven sins are complete in any country) only in order to know this you need not to be brainwashed by liberalism, but to learn world history.
        "Those who received various benefits from the extermination of the peasants" —the peasantry as a class were not destroyed, and the "fist" was put in place and was right. By the way, the fist is not a prosperous peasant, but above all a village moneylender.
      2. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 19: 27 New
        +1
        Our regular reader from the liberal democrat, Bibikov Nikita, asks: “I eat regularly and almost always at the same time, but liberal food has not given me pleasure lately because it is monotonous and not tasty. Tell me how to diversify quickly and easily your diet? " Dear NIKITA, we, real liberals and democrats, are happy to answer your question! Add to the first dish 20 g of liberal noodles and Yeltsin optimism, diced, 10 g of perestroika Gorbachev's chopped into small strips, a tablespoon of fat capitalist lies, a big oligarchic cookie, a pinch of market optimism, anti-Soviet greens to taste - and you will see how this the liberal democratic bandanda will acquire an exquisite taste.
        True health for the body is not guaranteed.
  • chenia
    chenia 1 September 2013 16: 36 New
    +2
    Quote: Tver
    60 million "- and why not a hundred?


    These liberals (Solzhenitsyn, Svanidze and others) did not know how to count, and hundreds of millions of losses were attributed to the Communists.

    Why 60 million? because the countries of the USSR over the years have lost 14 million people. But in the USSR, the growth over 10 years was 23-25 ​​million. Do you want to continue to count, or will you guess?

    For example, Ukraine (and where so half-polishly so contemptuously?) 45 million people. It was 52, an increase every 10 years for 2 million. with hook (these are the times when, according to the stories of the liberals, gebna ate eating babies) it should be 56.4 million. Determine the difference yourself. Ukraine was 1/6 of the Union in terms of population, without wars — you can take it as an average.
    Again, then tell you, or determine for yourself. And your arguments are against.

    Quote: Tver
    and in Russia, 5 generation generators are being built.


    5th generation fighters - Glory to the USSR. And you boast about the superjet.



    Quote: Tver
    Those who received various benefits from the extermination of the peasants received a cain stigma - stupidity and despondency.


    They received (Tukhachevsky, Kosior and others) a bullet in the head and the stigma of the enemy of the people. And here is what white and fluffy liberalists (Yasin, Chubais) will receive, and the stigma on them has always stood for Juden.
    1. Tver
      Tver 1 September 2013 17: 09 New
      -4
      If only, yes ... Demography without wars is a good thing, and the logic of simple multiplications and subtractions does not work. Mendeleev at the beginning of the century believed that there should be 500 million Russians in a certain number of years, and where are they ??? was a man. The elementary and consequently erroneous logic is one of the punishments of Leninist-minded people. But Stalin somehow managed to refrain from slipping into primitivism, but for some reason the Communists did not follow his example. Of course, he answered for the krovushka, but about this another time. Further ... Half-Poland. When government people had a lighter head, Little Russia was correctly called Little Russia, and the language of the local subethnos was considered semi-Polish. The Marxist-Leninist Khrushchov (and before him there were other party members) laid the foundation stone for the pseudo-state - “Ukraine.” Next; many technologies in the T-50 were mastered at the turn of 2000-2006 and cannot be a legacy of the USSR. Next: again about birthmarks. What is it? This is evidence of the crimes of ancestors (the example of Gorbachev is the most striking illustration). So this sad chain will stretch from father to son, and so on ... For example, up to 7 knees are responsible for killing a priest.
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 19: 31 New
        +2
        Tversky.
        Read carefully, this is clearly said about you, after reading, it’s better to think about it, if you still have what, what kind of blizzard you are threshing here.
        If you thought about it, you’ll immediately appreciate for yourself which of the two types of DSHM you belong to. No offense, but it’s time to turn on the brains, not the gram-plate of demshizoid slops.
        Demshiza of the brain - DSHGM.
        Why schiz?
        But only a democrat can call slaves people who showed the greatest activity, dedication, sacrifice, understanding of the situation and patience in the construction and defense of their country.

        Demshiza does not understand that without those whom she calls slaves and scoops (yes, vilely deceived by this demshiza), this schiza cost nothing then. What she stands when the husk of lies has crumbled, we clearly observe.

        THE MAIN THING! Demshiza does not understand that the formation of the worldview and understanding of those who are written is “When you see a black Volga (Mercedes, Kruzak, BMW) with scum seated inside, which left you and your children without a future, and you don’t have a strong the desire to shake this creature by the scruff of the neck "happened exactly at the time when they were already formed by them, demshiza. This is the generation she brought up. But as clinical schizophrenics, they seek the origins of this indifference in the USSR.

        He spoke and I say: anti-soviet either, or a scoundrel.
        There’s no demand for a fool.
        And the scoundrel understands everything, but does, lies, distortes, fogs, etc.
        So what type are you?
        1. Tver
          Tver 1 September 2013 20: 00 New
          -4
          You are a real Leninist! Tell your cell mates ... Why did I understand this? As you press on the Leninist, he’s coming out
          1. vladkavkaz
            vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 20: 03 New
            +2
            Clearly, you are modestly so, relate to the second type.
            And the very thing, brownish and slimy, is whipping with you, smelling the whole site with its smell.
            LGM in full glory, Tverskaya, be treated.
  • chenia
    chenia 1 September 2013 17: 59 New
    0
    Quote: Tver
    the logic of simple multiplications and subtractions does not work. At the beginning of the century, Mendeleev believed that there should be 500 million Russians in a certain number of years and where are they ??? But the man was genius.


    The logic of large numbers always works.

    Leave Mendeleev alone (12 children in the family), he was never a demographer. He, and as a chemist, made a mistake in the forecasts (oil and bank notes). And he made a mistake of only 70-80 million.

    Demographic losses for 1918–1959 -70 million, of which the domestic war -36-37 million. And of the remaining 33 million, only 7-8 repressions (including the Holodomor).

    Yes, a lot, but compare with the present.
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 19: 37 New
      +1
      The incessant footnotes, on Mendeleev’s, grow out of the work of one, a propsess who flashed off to the Nazis in 42, and then in the USA, where she pumped up her "demographic nonsense" reinforcing it with Mendeleev’s authority "I forgot the name of the freak but there is information on it on the Internet).
      The mistake of the great scientist, you are right, but the mistake, out of ignorance, he extrapolated the number of children in a peasant family for the entire specified period of 100 years, without taking into account and awareness, during urbanization, industrialization of society. Inevitably, in the second generation the number of children is reduced, to level 2-3, then even more. And just this happened.
      With all this, there is no harm to Mendeleev’s authority, he still hurt his soul for Russia, and these compilers of other people's thoughts, singers of Western ideological trash, Russia obviously do not want prosperity in any form.
  • Spike
    Spike 1 September 2013 23: 44 New
    +1
    Not a single revolution (this is still a revolution, because the system has changed, and not the ruling elite) will be successful without foundation. In 1905 they did not support, and why did the people support 1917?
  • E.S.A.
    E.S.A. 21 October 2018 21: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Pilat2009
    Probably a slightly different mentality. How about red terror?

    What about the "white terror", in response to which the so-called "red"? White punished and robbed the church with one thought: “slaves must be flogged, as in 1905” - and there was nothing to offend them, that they also started to tear back.