Kazakhstan finally abandoned the Russian missile in favor of the Ukrainian

Kazakhstan made the final choice in favor of the Ukrainian launch vehicle Zenit for its space program, abandoning the Russian Angara, the newspaper Kapital reported. Earlier, "New Region" has already reported such an opportunity with reference to the Ukrainian State Space Agency. Yesterday, final agreements were reached between Kazakhs and Ukrainians, and official documents will be signed in mid-October.

“The final decision was made to create a complex at Zenit. This means that the project will be implemented over the next few years, it is faster than on the basis of the Russian Angara rocket, ”said advisor to the chairman of the Ukrainian space agency Edward Kuznetsov.

The Kazakh-Russian project “Baiterek” in question has been implemented since the middle of the last decade. It provides for the creation of a new-generation rocket complex based on the infrastructure of the Kazakh Baikonur cosmodrome. Initially it was assumed that it would be sold under the Russian Angara missile. The first launch from the new site was scheduled for 2012 year, but did not take place.

There are several reasons why Kazakhstan preferred Ukrainian missiles. Firstly, this should reduce the cost of the Baytarek project, the cost of which has already reached $ 2 billion. Secondly, Kazakhstan allegedly decided to speed up negotiations on the use of Zenith after the crash of the Russian Proton-M rocket at the Baikonur cosmodrome, which happened 2 July 2013 of the year.

At the same time, another possible version is being promoted in Ukraine. According to the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, Anatoly Kinakh, the refusal of the Angara may indicate Russia's unwillingness to share it with Kazakhstan, since it can be launched independently at the Vostochny cosmodrome in the Far East under construction.

Comments

[Sirs]

Here we beat ourselves with low-quality rockets. and then we say that everything is against us. Everything is right. Kazakhstan is doing what for does it need a partner where not a start is an accident or some abnormal cases.

[an_ursus]

"It goes to the right - the song starts, to the left - it says fairy tales ..." .. Teach materiel. Take a closer look ... Example: "How RosKosmos lagged behind Nasa" And so, let's sum up the intermediate result. For 5 incomplete years, Russia made 156 official launches of which 8 were failed. During the same period, the United States made 90 launches of which 3 failed. With a gap of 66 starts, we have 5 more accidents. If we look at the ratio, without recalculating it into a monetary equivalent, then we are slightly inferior, however, if we take into account the fact that the flight of an American rocket costs an order of magnitude, then the ratio of losses can easily change to the completely opposite. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to spend the whole day and calculate the exact amounts, and therefore, in terms of launches, it is possible, with a superficial assessment, to agree on a draw.

At the same time, I dare say that rocket science is a very, very high-tech industry, where no one is immune from minor mistakes, and those, in turn, lead to very sad consequences. So, for example, from 5 shuttles + 1 prototype, 2 shuttles and the prototype proper were killed. This is despite the fact that their launches were often delayed and everything was verified and checked hundreds of times. http://shukalov.com/%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BA-%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B
C%D0%BE%D1%81-%D0%BE%D1%82-nasa-%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB
-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80/

[Genry]

By the way, Wikipedia is about Zenit.
As of February 2, 2013, 77 launches were carried out [9], of which:

66 successful
4 partially successful
9 unsuccessful

This is much worse than Russian missiles.

[berimor]

Learn to count!

[alone]

66 + 4 + 9 = 79 where are the two starts?

[lelikas]

Quote: lonely

66 + 4 + 9 = 79 where are the two starts?

4 partially successful + 2 partially not counted.

[alone]

witty. no words

and look at the top comments)) the one who calculated didn’t get + correctly, and the one who reproached him for not knowing the math got a minus. and where are we going at such a pace?))

[kazssr]

no words, agree

[essenger]

Quote: lonely

witty. no words

and look at the top comments)) the one who calculated didn’t get + correctly, and the one who reproached him for not knowing the math got a minus. and where are we going at such a pace?))

Flags play a role here, not opinions)))

[S_mirnov]

Quote: Genry

This is much worse than Russian missiles.

However, they chose the Ukrainian carrier, the discrepancy turns out, So there are unaccounted factors!
For example, in Ukraine you need to pay less kickbacks and less approvals to go through. As an option!

[vlad.svargin]

I support S_mirnov and want to add <According to the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada Anatoly Kinakh, the abandonment of the Angara may indicate Russia's unwillingness to share it with Kazakhstan, since it can be launched independently at the Vostochny cosmodrome under construction in the Far East.>> and, as always, prevented the "torgasheskie" interests of the bureaucratic-oligarchic lobby of Russia.

[KazaK Bo]

Quote: Genry

This is much worse than Russian missiles.

Perhaps you are right! But KAZAKHSTAN, when choosing the media option, probably remembered the comedian KARTSEV (I rephrase a little!):
--- ZENIT ... worse, but for "three rubles" ... and today!
--- ANGARA ... more promising, but already for "five" rubles ... but only ... in general, when we finally do it!

[avt]

Quote: KazaK Bo

Perhaps you are right! But KAZAKHSTAN, when choosing the media option, probably remembered the comedian KARTSEV (I rephrase a little!):

And what about the Kazakhs, was the Angara offered? As far as I remember the course of events - the refusal to launch Angara at Baikonur, this is the decision of Russia. So they especially have nothing to choose, as well as refuse.

[tanit]

Add 26 more transferred. For different periods. From one day to the transfer to the number of partially successful.

[S_mirnov]

Quote: an_ursus

For 5 incomplete years, Russia made 156 official launches of which 8 were failures. The United States made 90 launches over the same period, of which 3 were failed.

Let's think 156 only official launches! 31 a year! I am embarrassed to ask, what are we launching with such intensity there? the couple have not heard about the grandiose space programs and 3G Internet slows down as before.
With Glonas, too, something is not very flexible. So tell me who knows what we are shooting into the sky ?! !!

[I'm Russian]

Foreign satellites are launched into orbit for the currency, and all without any accidents, but as soon as GLONAS, so Rogozin, was not in vain tearing metal too: there is reason to reflect on wrecking ...

[edge]

Quote: Sirs

hit yourself with low-quality rockets. and then we say that everything is against us

our space program is a bone in the throat for many, and ways to slow it down and turn it down are being sought. Everything goes into the matter: compromising, wrecking, bribing, blackmail ....

[S_mirnov]

Quote: hert

our space program is to many a throat bone,

And what kind of space program do we have, I’m not ashamed to know, can you tell me where to read it? Can we fly to Mars soon?

[ed65b]

Fall due to Ukrainian booster blocks. For the most part. Now the Kazakhs will fall.

[Genry]

Here is the unsuccessful launch of the Ukrainian Zenith, although the failure was considered Russian.
http://ria.ru/science/20130221/924091271.html

[Kasym]

The whole problem is that the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan initially agreed that we (Kazakhstan) are building a launch pad for any version of the Angara, from light to heavy. But Russia "cheated" on us - in the end it offered only an easy version of the Angara. Sorry, but that's not what we agreed on.
This is the main reason. And if the author was well engaged in the study of this issue, then it would have surfaced immediately.
This is not the first time that Russia has come along with us like that.

[tegezen]

Nobody cheated anyone. Baiterek under the Angara was obeshed when there was still no decision on the East. And "Vostochny" was needed when the Kazakh bosses began to remind someone of whose Baikonur, then we allow the launch of the Proton, but we do not allow it - no complaints, your land is your right. So they decided to build Vostochny, a launching complex for Angara, the infrastructure is different, there is simply not enough strength for the same colossus at Baikonur, so they refused, and there is no point in duplicating, and the system has not yet been worked out, if something goes wrong twice ... So it's good that you agreed with Ukraine, Zenith is still a proven rocket.

[Kasym]

Victor, good evening! Sorry, I didn't want to throw a "stone into the neighbor's garden". I have just been following the situation at Baikonir for a long time. The fact is that the agreement on Baiterek was reached at the end of 2004. And Kazakhstan allocated an interest-free loan for this - in short, "got". Read here. http://news.74mail.ru/news.php?news_id=409258.
So the whole point was to replace the "dirty" Proton with a "clean" hangar. Another emergency with Proton shows that "not everything is in order" with her. And the permission of ty has nothing to do with it - as in aviation, after an emergency with some "product", a ban is put on flights of this type of product until it is completely clear what is called. And in the Russian media this is brought up as a veto of Kazakhstan. Even in the most difficult years, Baikonur always worked and not without the help of Kazakhstan.

[avt]

Quote: Kasym

Another emergency with Proton shows that "not everything is in order" with her.

With 500 everything is in order, no one is ever safe from mistakes, it was initially filled with muck, because at the time of creation of the engines on oxygen and hydrogen there were no suitable ones. Glushko generally wrote in manuals that such an engine, in principle, cannot be done, but after 5th Saturn they took out this monograph in the library of the Moscow Higher Technical School. There are spots on the Sun and great ones are mistaken. Well, and the decision on the Hangar is yes, political and its roots lie not only in Russia.

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: Kasym

This is not the first time that Russia comes to us like that.

You excuse Kasym, and not the last. Do you really think that it is profitable for Russia to develop for its money that which it built with its own sweat and blood, now on foreign territory and allow free development at its own expense even of a non-hostile country, but not of any ally. Let us now think and cooperate even with Ukraine, even with France or the United States, and earn money if you can in such a high-tech industry as space exploration. Maybe this will help you become a truly independent country in all respects, and we will be glad to see your success.

[Kasym]

Hello, hello. I cited the links in the previous. your comment. Take a look.
You do not understand anything. We proposed together - costs and risks are shared together. We are the launch complex, you are rocket. What do you see bad for Russia? For Kazakhstan, in Baikonur, the main next position is that the city and the spaceport should live, and not become a ghost town and a host of giant reinforced concrete structures. We are ready to completely abandon the lease (for which our people pay in Russia, etc., the budget does not see any living money, in short) and take on part of the financial costs (preferably such that it can be paid off). Hello, like YES. But YOUR Roskosmos ... in short, you will not understand that y them in yme. Pytin arrives and hugs Nazar, and in 15 minutes. decide everything. And as far as performers comes, then ... a seam.
Нy, but the fact that it’s not the first time or not the last ... We’re neighbors, so we’ll ruin something up there and they won’t ask us.

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: Kasym

You do not understand anything. We proposed together - costs and risks are shared

Dear Kasym, Russia has enough territory, although it is not as deserted as the steppes of Kazakhstan, to have its own new cosmodrome with a new universal launch complex for Angara, with no approvals; - diplomatic, environmental, economic, social, etc. etc., everything is at home and no problems. Everything is simpler and more cynical (not like it was in the USSR - "All people are brothers" - "All equally" - "sixteen republics - 16 sisters") now we are neighbors , and not sisters and brothers, but where did you see that the neighbors were fed?

[Kasym]

Oleg, Victor are friends, and how do you want to get the New Union? If this "scam" continues on the part of the main ally, then despite this, we will not find new partners in the Union. Here's the main thing - "you have to answer for the market." If we treat each other more attentively and fulfill our obligations, then only in this case can we create a new Commonwealth of countries. There is NO other way.
In my comments, I focused on the real reason, and not as the author: "if this is how it is, or maybe this is how it is." In short, the author is ready to mix Kazakhstan with dirt, but does not notice "podlyanka" from Russia - we are so white and fluffy. This is what revolts.

[Galinanp]

Dauren completely agree with you, but the article reflects a vision of the issue from the Ukrainian side.
Pytin arrives and hugs Nazar, and in 15 minutes. decide everything. And as far as performers comes, then ... a seam.
A good example of how the occupation system planted by the Anglo-Saxons in the 90s works. Putin, and Nazarbayev, has to carry out manual control, overcoming the resistance of the system.
On Friday, at a meeting in Birobidzhan on eliminating the effects of flooding in the Far East, Russian President Vladimir Putin staged a spree to officials, writes Tengrinews.kz with reference to the Russia-24 TV channel.

Speaking about the situation in temporary accommodation centers in the Jewish Autonomous Region, Putin said: “The situation there is not the best. People write to me that the living conditions there are not very good, they feed with a bandanda, children do not eat. Am I supposed to put someone on a sack to start training? ”

[cherkas.oe]

Quote: Kasym

Oleg, Victor are friends, and how do you want to get the New Union?

There will never be a union in the format in which it existed even with a smaller number of participants, and the formats of economic, scientific and technical relations, etc. they will be built only on mutually beneficial conditions, and being a tractor for someone with the loss of the maximum benefit from the project is not profitable for themselves in all respects, history has shown; the more Russia invested in someone, besides it was hated as a result and should like a collective farm land, and the more it has to invest now in order to recover losses suffered from fraternal coexistence. So, for me, those moves in relations with the former Soviet republics undertaken by my country are completely understandable and acceptable.

[Kasym]

Oleg, I completely agree - you can’t return the previous Union. And it wasn’t necessary when the construction of a city bath was decided in Moscow for several years. Agree, this is not correct.
I am also sympathetic to the interests of the Russian Federation. And in this case they are observed. You will build the Hangar anyway. And we at our own expense launch pad. Start it even from Vostochny, even from Baikonyr - what is the interest of Russia in? Moreover, as some experts say, you can throw more useful load from Baikonyra!
I think so, if we hit the mark and signed some agreements, then this should be done. Only in this way we will find new allies. Russia should not put Kazakhstan on the same level, for example, with Algeria. Here with the same Angara and Bayterek. The agreements were signed in 2004, already 9 years have passed. Time and money wasted. If we agreed on Zenith right away, then believe me, what would be required from Kazakhstan would have been done. That is, Kazakhstan, as an ally and neighbor, suffered. Even if we are talking about some 1 or 2 billion greenbacks, this is "not a question" for Kazakhstan, as well as for the Russian Federation.
"There is nothing further than YESTERDAY and there is nothing closer than TOMORROW." We need to think about the future, now is the time to act, and not remember history with a cup of tea. Believe me, in Kazakhstan they don't think much about any insults (Holodomor or repressions, or who gave whom and how much). I think if we take into account the interests of each other, the sooner we will find allies. We, at the moment, and our relations (RF, RB and RK) are now under great interest from the whole world, and not just our neighbors. "Will it be possible to create a new union on the ruins of the old? Yes or no?" The answer to this question will predetermine the geopolitics, geography and history of the next century.

[Ascetic]

Quote: Kasym

But YOUR Roskosmos ... in short, you will not understand that y them in yme. Pytin arrives and hugs Nazar, and in 15 minutes. decide everything. And as far as performers comes, then ... a seam.

Ksym! Greetings! We already kind of discussed with you the reasons for all these points earlier. Yes, Baikonur and Baiterek are mostly right. It turned out to be nice for efficient managers from Roscosmos as always. Yes, and the appointment of Shuvalov in the Interfax is essentially a quiet discharge of the Baiterek project, in my opinion. We made a bet on the East. Recently, I just returned from Uglegorsk ... Everything goes according to plan, although as always with overcoming the many problems that we ourselves create out of the blue. Sooner or later, Russia will leave Baikonur, it’s real and you need to be prepared for this. And here is only one way - to develop joint projects with the maximum involvement of interested countries, including Russia, because you won’t be able to pull Baikonur alone.
There is an official document according to which our joint relations are built. All other "news" like this is just information slag. And the document is called

The joint action plan of Kazakhstan and Russia for 2013-2015

In particular, in space there in black and white the following

15. Continue work on the implementation of the Baiterek project on the basis of the Zenit launch vehicle at the Baikonur Cosmodrome.
Performers:
from the Kazakhstan side - the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan;
on the Russian side, the Federal Space Agency. Terms of implementation: 2013-2015.
17. To develop and prepare for signing a bilateral agreement governing the procedure for joint use of the Baikonur Cosmodrome.
Performers:
from the Kazakhstan side - the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan;
on the Russian side, the Federal Space Agency. Terms of implementation: 2013.
The joint action plan of Kazakhstan and Russia for 2013-2015 was approved by the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan N.A. Nazarbayev and President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin December 19, 2012, Moscow

As for the further fate of Baiterek, in July of this year, a trilateral protocol was signed by Musabaev, Popovkin and Alekseev on this project and its implementation, that is, on the transition to the Zenit launch vehicle. At the moment, the space agency of Ukraine should send its proposals to Kazkosmos and Roskosmos regarding further cooperation on the Baiterek project. Only after that will proper decisions be madeSo the word is in Ukraine

[Kasym]

Stanislav, hello! Glad to see. I do not believe that Russia will leave Baikonyr - such a country needs more than one cosmodrome. I know that you are in the midst of "space" problems, therefore, just like YOU, I would like to see the intelligible position of Roscosmos on Baikonir, and better the program for the development of the cosmodrome. Our authorities, in my opinion, are ready to take on certain financial costs and risks. Russia should take advantage of this.
Yes, Stanislav, I am in charge of these agreements. Therefore, I say that Russia will not leave the cosmodrome - it is simply not profitable.
By the way, I recently visited Ukraine (Kiev). The problems are the same as for us. But the main difference is that the government does not have the same support as in Russia or in Russia (everyone spits). "What kind of EU, what kind of There. Union, if they wave their fists at us in the Rada, it's a shame ?! They can't share power, they have no time for people!" Something like this .
Sincerely, Darren.

[ultra]

Quote: Kasym

We are the starting complex

This is the essence of the issue! Russia must have (must) a national spaceport!

[Kasym]

Michael, good evening, but I don't mind. I think that Russia needs to organize its own Sea Launch at the equator.
I'm about the other. Do not let others drag. We build our economy from such agreements. Another example that held our power in suspense. About ten years ago, it was decided to expand the throughput capacity of the CPC pipeline (from western Kazakhstan to the Black Sea) twice between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan. Russia throughout this time did not implement this project. And y this year, industrial production begins on Kashagan. Where to put it - did we count on our agreements? Kashagan will allow to increase oil export by 2 times - imagine its value for us, for our budget! I think that this will allow the RK to equal the Russian Federation in terms of GDP per capita of the population. It is good that work is now underway and promise that they will finish it in the next year. But it took the personal intervention of the first persons. Our officials on this issue walked in a pre-infarction state. Of course, we could have her tankers to Azerbaijan and further; either to the side of China to build additional capacities, or something else. BUT WE REALLY AGREED WITH RUSSIA FOR 10 YEARS BACK. So I personally want there to be no such facts in our relationship.
With great respect, Dayren.

[Zymran]

Our officials on this issue walked in a pre-infarction state. Of course, we could have her tankers to Azerbaijan and further; either to the side of China to build additional capacities, or something else. BUT WE HAVE AGREED WITH RUSSIA FOR 10 YEARS BACK

It was necessary to join Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan and the entire short-lived.

[Alekseev]

Quote: Sirs

Here we beat ourselves with low-quality rockets. and then we say that everything is against us. Everything is right. Kazakhstan is doing what for does it need a partner where not a start is an accident or some abnormal cases.

For your information, although the missile is Ukrainian "at the place of birth", in fact it is a joint Russian-Ukrainian product - more than half of YuMZ's Zenit missile contractors are Russian enterprises.
So created a modern global world ...
And there were enough accidents with the Zenit rocket.
Take an interest, this is by no means secret information.

[Aryan]

Well let them fly on corn

[Aryan]

and season with fat

[Russ69]

Quote: Sirs

Here we beat ourselves with low-quality rockets. and then we say that everything is against us. Everything is right. Kazakhstan is doing what for does it need a partner where not a start is an accident or some abnormal cases.

"Zenith", also crashed in the spring at the sea start, as the commission established from the error of the block of government made in Ukraine.

[tilovaykrisa]

Not everything is so simple, the reason is the lack of state acceptance on the part of the Russian Federation that the stool was destroyed, because somehow the product was accepted and allowed to start, this is a minimum of negligence and maximum wrecking.

[Strashila]

And we thought that the rockets began to fall ...

[an_ursus]

..... "According to the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, Anatoly Kinakh, the refusal of Angara may indicate Russia's unwillingness to share it with Kazakhstan." ...
Exactly..

[edge]

Quote: an_ursus

"According to the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada Anatoly Kinakh, the refusal of Angara may indicate Russia's unwillingness to share it

they are just afraid to be left without a lot of money, space tourism is gaining momentum ....

[Valery Neonov]

Today he refused, tomorrow he will "knock on the door" and babble about the mistake of the decision ... Politics ..., go for it ...; well, the amount of tenge for the "rollback" probably plays an important role.
And the perpetrators of the fall of our missiles need to be PUNISHED, as for CHANGE OF THE HOMELAND IN WAR TIME! Now it is in foreign policy.

[AleksUkr]

PROVIDED: Soon everyone, including the states of Chumbu-yumba, will send us as far as possible.

If the ministers of Russia worked on specialized education!
(THE INFORMATION IS MULTIPLE OLD, BUT THEY ARE ACTUAL AND NOW. SMALL THAT THE CHANGE-CURRENT CABMINE HAS NOT BEEN TOO MUCH IMPROVED).

If the career of ministers was built in accordance with their education and specialty, then the cabinet would look like this:

1. Elena Skrynnik - Minister of Health. She graduated from the Chelyabinsk Medical Institute.
2. Igor Levitin - Minister of Defense. He graduated from the Military Academy of Logistics and Transport.
3. Alexander Avdeev - Minister of Foreign Affairs. Graduated from MGIMO.
4. Viktor Khristenko - Minister of Regional Development. He graduated from the Chelyabinsk Polytechnic Institute, majoring in construction.
5. Anatoly Serdyukov - Minister of Trade. He graduated from the Leningrad Institute of Soviet Trade.
6. Alexander Khloponin - Minister of Finance. He graduated from the Moscow Financial Institute.
7. Elvira Nabiullina - Minister of Labor. She became a co-author of a book on the topic of labor alienation.
8. Igor Schegolev - Minister of Education. Graduated from Moscow State Pedagogical Institute of Foreign Languages. Maurice Thorez.
9. Sergey Shoigu - Minister of Regional Development. He graduated from the Krasnoyarsk Polytechnic Institute with a degree in civil engineering.
10. Sergey Lavrov - Minister of Tourism. He is engaged in kayaking.
11. Vitaliy Mutko - Minister of Transport. He graduated from the Leningrad Institute of Water Transport.
12. Alexei Kudrin - Minister of Economics. He graduated from the Faculty of Economics of LSU.
13. Victor Basargin - Minister of Energy. He graduated from the Sverdlovsk Mining Institute, with a degree in mining engineer.
14. Igor Sechin - Minister of Culture. He graduated from the philological faculty of Leningrad State University.
15. Viktor Zubkov - Minister of Agriculture. He graduated from the Leningrad Agricultural Institute.
16. Tatyana Golikova - Minister of Industry. She graduated from the Plekhanov Moscow Institute of National Economy.
17. Alexander Zhukov - Minister of Sports. Captain of the Russian government football team.
18. Sergey Ivanov - Minister of Culture. He graduated from the philological faculty of Leningrad State University.
19. Dmitry Kozak - Minister of the Interior. He graduated from the Law Faculty of Leningrad State University.
20. Rashid Nurgaliev - Minister of Science. He graduated from the Physics and Mathematics Department of Petrozavodsk State University.
21. Igor Shuvalov - Minister of Justice. He graduated from the law faculty of Moscow State University.
22. Alexander Konovalov - Minister for Youth Affairs. The youngest minister (44 years old).
23. Sergey Shmatko - Minister of Science. He studied at the Ural University at the Faculty of Mathematics and Mechanics.

For example, the leader of the integrated rating compiled by RIA Novosti, Ekho Moskvy and Moskovskiye Novosti, Aleksey Kudrin could solve economic problems, Sergei Shoigu, a civil engineer by training, could oversee the housing and utilities sector, and Sergei Lavrov could become Minister of Tourism.

[31231]

It’s foolish to measure with diplomas. In fact, all technical education provides primary skills, and everything else comes from work and life. In addition, you do not take into account the name of specialties, but only the name of higher educational institutions.

[Revolver]

Quote: AleksUkr

If the ministers of Russia worked on specialized education!

The list is high-quality. To accomplish all this, you are missing a little - to take the post of prime minister. It only seems to me that you are not on that list of possible candidates for this position, which undoubtedly is, if not in the portfolio, then in the head of the GDP.

[dmit-xnumx]

- And "if my grandmother had ... she would be a grandfather!" - Why post someone's speculation here that is completely unrelated to the stated topic? Place this opus on Kremlin dot Ru, if you are so concerned about the Government.

[Wolverine67]

.....those. according to your information, Lavrov has no higher education? And please explain your logic when appointing "mining engineer" Basargin as minister of energy ???? In general, this is a bullshit, in the US the president is also the head of government, and in my opinion they did not have people with an economic education there, I don’t remember the president with a "higher Hollywood wood" education, R. Reagan ... ....

[not good]

Unfortunately, gaining posts in present-day Russia most often depends not on the diploma or professionalism of the appointee, but on proximity to the body. Professionals are gradually being washed out from among the leaders and until this is understood at the top, we will have what we have.

[alone]

Quote: AleksUkr

5. Anatoly Serdyukov - Minister of Trade. He graduated from the Leningrad Institute of Soviet Trade.

and what, competently traded. sold everything that could be.

[January]

What kind of bullshit is bullshit?
10. Sergey Lavrov - Minister of Tourism. He is engaged in kayaking. - you hold us for idiots?
Sergey Lavrov graduated in 1972 Moscow State Institute of International Relations (MGIMO) Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the USSR
Apparently he studied tourism there.
The rest is the same.
Tatyana Golikova - Graduated from the Moscow Institute of National Economy named after Plekhanov specialty "economy labor ”/ What nafig industry, if 18 years in the BUDGET?

[AleksUkr]

Quote: 31231

It’s foolish to measure with diplomas.

Everything is correct !!!!!!!!! By the way, here is a version of the proposed work in a particular specialty in accordance with the diploma received. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY! Serdyukov is an example for you ?! And AT ALL:

[Kyrgyz]

The question is how much Kazakhstan can participate in space projects, everything will be limited to renting a cosmodrome and everything, like Uzbekistan, which turned out to be with an aircraft factory, Kazakhstan will not find the resources to continue the life of Baikonur if the Russians abandon it

[Hitrovan07]

If the Russians "give up", China will come.

[Andrey57]

And China Baikonur for what? They have their own spaceport located much south of Baikonur, which means that with the same carrier China will throw a larger load into orbit from its launch pad, in addition, all launch complexes in Baikonur are designed for Soviet-Russian missiles and remodeling them is an expensive pleasure.

[ed65b]

Correctly. Russia will leave Baikonur as soon as it builds an eastern one. Kazakhs, however, keep Baikonur in the complete absence of their own space industry and intelligible space programs simply does not make sense and there is not enough money. Here they think how to get out. Russia has frozen a new start, constantly delaying the resolution of any issues. In general, it became clear that Russia had lost interest in the Kazakhs and is using Baikonur insofar as. This shows a series of scandals with the Kazakhs.

[Horde]

Quote: ed65b

This shows a series of scandals with the Kazakhs.

the last fall of a fully fueled Proton has led I think to have serious environmental consequences. Heptyl poison is still the same although it is written that toxic asymmetric dimethylhydrazine (heptyl) should have been burned, but they themselves understand what the Kazakhs are unhappy about.

[saag]

Quote: Hitrovan07

If the Russians "give up", China will come.

will not come, Baikonur is not needed by anyone because of its geographical location, the Chinese have a cosmodrome more in an energetically favorable position to launch

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

will not come, Baikonur is not needed by anyone because of its geographical location, the Chinese have a cosmodrome more in an energetically favorable position to launch

If it were only a matter of profit, then of course they wouldn’t come ... but the Americans and the Chinese would come .. at least to the peak of Russia .. Israel can, because they have problems launching from their territory (somewhere read, I hope not confused ..) ..
The position of the Kazakh side is highlighted in the article "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" http://www.asiakz.com/zvezdnir-voiny
I threw it on "VO", but for some reason it did not pass moderation ..

"According to the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada Anatoly Kinakh, the refusal of the Angara may indicate Russia's unwillingness to share it with Kazakhstan."

In general, Kazakhstan paid Roscosmos for the creation of Baiterek, i.e. actually participated in partial financing of the creation of "Angara", but for his own money, and considerable RK received in exchange, in fact, only the use of the Baiterek brand.
The question is what is it called ?? !!
As a result: Kazakhstan does not refuse agreements with Russia, including those that provide for a gradual reduction in launches of environmentally harmful Proton missiles. In turn, Kazkosmos intends to reorient Baiterek to launch the Russian-Ukrainian Zenit-3SL rocket, which is a direct competitor of Proton-K. On Baikonur under the "Zenith" built two launchers. Kazkosmos conducts training of specialists, holds negotiations with other market participants, and even tries to create satellites.
In particular, one of the priorities of Kazcosmos is the creation of an assembly and testing complex of spacecraft. It is officially stated that after its creation, an enterprise will appear in the country “to provide services for the design, assembly and testing of spacecraft for various purposes - communications and broadcasting, remote sensing of the Earth, scientific, technological and other components of the payload and elements of space technology”.
It is hard to imagine what will come of it. It is unlikely that Kazakhstan will be able to independently enter the space launch market, but it will still be able to do something. In any case, this is better than just giving money for projects like Ishim, Kazsat-1, or even the old Baiterek project. Moreover, it is probably cheaper. Any conflict once ends, the main thing is to learn from it and clearly understand what your interests are.

[svp67]

... the rejection of the Angara may indicate Russia's unwillingness to share it with Kazakhstan,

I think this is more true.

[APASUS]

I think it’s our own fault. Angara has been built in the area of ​​20 years and all the time it’s just heard that it’s modern, anthologous, and the dates are always postponed. There are no missiles and there is nothing to offer.

[Concept1]

In favor of the Ukrainian Zenit launch vehicle Controversial statement The first and second stage engines RD-170 and RD-120 were developed by the Energomash design bureau NPO Energomash named after academician V.P. Glushko, a Russian company that is a leading developer and manufacturer of liquid-propellant rocket engines.

[mark1]

At Yuzhmash, Zenith LV is mainly assembled, which by 85-90% consists of Russian components, in fact, Yuzhmashev's developments there are no more than 15%. In principle, with a strong desire, Russia could arrange assembly on its territory, this topic was discussed, but a decision was made to develop the Angara launch vehicle. Kazakhstan, having abandoned the Russian "Angara" launch vehicles, did not go anywhere from cooperation with the Russian Federation, it simply took itself out of the risks when introducing new technology and saved on the creation of a launch complex. All the insinuations about the preference for the "Ukrainian" missile over the Russian are mere silly teasers.

[Semurg]

As an option, they are insured against the appetites of the Roskosmos leadership (and they really have a cosmic appetite drank 2 yards of bucks that now they can’t find anyway). They didn’t leave Russia on Baikonur, but leave the management of Roscosmos (although the Ukrainians didn’t miss the chance to cut the loot) in In general, I thought about changing the idea. It would be nice to establish cooperation with a third party like Israel, but the Russian leadership would be against it and this is not yet possible.

[mark1]

Quote: Semurg

it would be good to establish cooperation with a third party like Israel

Well. what you can offer them, in general, it’s understandable - the endless steppes and the place for building on the cosmodrome, but what you want to get from them (except for the dough) and most importantly what they need from you is not clear at all.

[Semurg]

Well, at least that Baikonur as a city does not disappear from the map (this is for us), they themselves will determine them (the main thing is that their wishes would not be to the detriment of Kazakhstan)

[mark1]

Quote: Semurg

they will determine for themselves (the main thing is that their wishes are not to the detriment of Kazakhstan)

So I say what they need (and whether it is necessary at all) is not entirely clear. Baikonur will live as a cosmodrome only with a large annual number of launches, and for this it is necessary not to trade in places for development, but to offer transport services using a good and reliable launch vehicle, and for this it would be nice to do what I wrote to you below. Well, in general, the direction of thoughts about your own pH is correct. Faithful road you want to go, brothers Kazakhs!

[knn54]

The Zenith launch vehicle has a ~ 25% Ukrainian configuration.
The distrust of Roscosmos is just growing (including from the RK side).
You can already forget about Proton. The IK (stand) was dismantled at Kommunar (Kharkov) long ago. Yes, and there is nothing to make SU. And the cause of the crash of ALL missiles, first of all, is "foreign" electronics.
By the way, the PRC is also on the Taiwanese "needle". We are mainly from South Korea.

[common man]

Kazakhs too zealously hit the environment. Just pay for the environment. Progress and pristine nature, by and large, things are not compatible. It is not regrettable to note this.
According to the article. Question to those who are in the subject. Will Ukraine itself be able to pull the production of full-cycle launch vehicles in the current state of the economy?

[Semurg]

Pour heptyl in your yard and talk about the incompatibility of Progress and nature. We will also note this with regret.

[common man]

Quote: Semurg

Pour heptyl in your yard and

Do you have villages throughout the entire trajectory of launching the launch vehicle, tightly, as in Europe?
And don’t worry so much. In our Urals, too, every dirty trickle is scattered, scattered and scattered abundantly. From oil to min. fertilizers, etc. We do not groan.

[Semurg]

Well, it’s not a question at home you can do whatever you want.

[common man]

So we do the East. What problems? And in place of Baikonur will be a virgin, environmentally friendly STEP.

[saag]

Quote: Alibekulu

If it were only for profit

This is the main thing, money will not be wasted

Quote: Alibekulu

but Americans and Chinese will come .. at least to the peak of Russia

And what will they launch? Starts at Baikonur are oriented purely for the Union and Proton, it is impossible to bring your own rocket and stick it on someone else's start, everything else is there starting from the electrical connectors and to the rocket installer

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

it’s impossible to bring your own rocket and stick it on someone else’s start, everything is different from electrical connectors to the rocket installer

Here you can recall the legendary phrase from the movie "Armageddon": "Russian, American ... everything is made in Taiwan"
By the way, what about the Taiwanese chips in GLONASS ??!

Quote: saag

This is the main thing, money will not be wasted

I completely agree - there is no need to waste money on incomprehensible projects such as Baiterek, Ishim, Kazsat ...

[AK-47]

Ukraine is surprising. And they still say everything is bad there.

[Alexander D.]

Quote: AK-47

Ukraine is surprising. And they still say everything is bad there.

You are not reading information from there - not so bad. Who works, that is the norm.

[saag]

Quote: AK-47

And they still say everything is bad there.

When EU technical regulations come there then it will really be bad

[saag]

Quote: saag

Here you can recall the legendary phrase from the movie "Armageddon": "Russian, American ... everything is made in Taiwan"

Americans still can not say such a thing, is this really a reason to take it on faith? :-)

Quote: Alibekulu

By the way, what about the Taiwanese chips in GLONASS ??!

honestly I was not interested, maybe Taiwanese, maybe others, it's just a payload and has nothing to do with the media

[Semurg]

For me, Baikonur turned into a suitcase without a handle (it’s a pity to throw and it’s not hard to drag) Russia seems to have decided and goes to Vostochny, Kazakhstan is now trying to find a replacement for Russia, Ukraine seems to me not a full replacement, but other players are not yet visible. Maybe it’s starting there slowly open other industries not related to space, so that our citizens would not be left with nothing after Russia left (and Russia will leave sooner or later), otherwise we will get another ghost town.

[mark1]

Yes, Russia does not leave anywhere, at the first stage, during the commissioning of Vostochny, there will be a slight decrease in the number of launches, then as commercial projects grow, new launch sites will still be needed. If I were in Kazakhstan, I would propose to make Zenit not a Russian-Ukrainian but a trilateral one and would try to increase the share in joint production to 2-5%, then I would not have to act as a poor relative (especially since you are not poor . just don’t screw up, invest in production)

[Semurg]

I don’t go to the account. I don’t agree why to push a lot of money into a new cosmodrome? Russia will still need Progress in Baikonur (which is environmentally dirty and cheap), when the new Angara rocket shows itself and proves its advantage, then Russia leaves. Well, it may have a limited presence in Baikonur to prevent other players from appearing here (from Russia it’s right why to breed competitors and reduce our influence with us), well, Kazakhstan needs to prepare for it in its own way. At the expense of tripartite cooperation, Russia will also have big doubts at any moment if Ukraine feels uet kokurentsiyu (Example AN aircraft) well ricocheted we arrive at this think if you start cooperation and to invest it with the other participants in the space race whom Russia will not be able to bend at any time on a whim.

[Concept1]

Semurg If such a pace of development is buried in 5-7 years, Russia will be able to bend anyone at any time at its whim!

[Semurg]

Everything is possible even the arrival of aliens. Then, after about eleven years, you will begin to catch them at your whim.

[mark1]

Any state does not want to be dependent on such an important issue as the national space program, the country's security is at stake and it is unacceptable that someone from the outside could influence the launch program. Commercial launches are a completely different matter; with their growth, only a stupid one can abandon sites in Baikonur, Vostochny will take a long time to reach Baikonur. You, Kazakhs, understand this very well and want to have your share (not a small one), but I repeat, you have to invest, not collecting rent, but joint production of Zenith is a good idea. Not a single Israel or Saudi Arabia or some other third-rate "space racers" will not help you - they simply will not provide the loading of the cosmodrome.

[Semurg]

I agree with almost everything except the "third-rate racers" I am now sitting at a computer from China, and relatively recently they were a "third-rate country" everything flows, everything changes, especially in our "fast time"

[mark1]

Quote: Semurg

I agree with almost everything except the "third-rate racers" I am now sitting at a computer from China, and relatively recently they were a "third-rate country" everything flows, everything changes, especially in our "fast time"

Great countries set great goals, including in space, small ones and small targets, and accordingly the number of launches they have is not large. I repeat the 218th time, you need to go to the space car market with your own LV and not with square meters.

[Semurg]

I have heard and know about great and small countries and their goals (they have been taught since childhood). So far we cannot afford our own RN and not according to technical capabilities. About cooperation with Ukraine, I think I wrote a dead version, because there will be dependence on Russia and it can at any time put an end to this cooperation (if it feels competition or because of any of its caprice) I think the Kazakhs are being dragged into another zho-poo from the Ukrainian launch vehicle where 80% of the Russian components are now the state will invest a few yards of bucks, and then in connection with the next Russian-Ukrainian scandal this launch vehicle will never fly anywhere, so I think we need to take a closer look at other partners. As I understand there are four major players in the world and they are not interested in cooperation with Kazakhstan (unless geopolitics), but there are 3-4 smaller players and I think they will be interested in both "square meters" and the money that Kazakhstan is ready to invest in this business, so we need to start cooperation with them. I will repeat 219 times my cosmodrome and my launch vehicle are an ideal option, so far there is no such thing, but we must strive for this.

[edge]

Quote: Semurg

AN aircraft example

as if Ukraine was not showing off, but the An-70 project was being developed for our market; nobody needs it anymore. If only China takes away a couple of copies and then clones them, so that they would proudly shake their forelocks, and without our order they would ass .... their kb Antonov will either bend or they will plow on someone else’s uncle as intellectual slaves.

[Sergey Medvedev]

Kazakhstanis, of course, know better what to spend their money on. But why is Russia alone taking measures to attract Ukraine to the Customs Union? After all, Kazakhstan also benefits from expanding the common economic space. Could hold a decision. And what will happen to Zenit production if Ukraine joins the EU? It's not clear yet.

[Genry]

Quote: Sergei Medvedev

And what will happen to Zenit production if Ukraine joins the EU?

The Zenit launch vehicle is, in fact, a piece of the first stage of the Energia launch vehicle.
Russia will simply replace Ukrainian-made units with its own and that's it!
Russia now has a Sea Launch complex at its disposal, although it is in the ocean, but missiles can be launched directly from the equator.

And about the European Union - nothing more than the paid hype of the press and political scientists.
Ukraine is not needed there, they just want to "not let them go to Russia."

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Genry

The Zenit launch vehicle is, in fact, a piece of the first stage of the Energia launch vehicle.

The first stage of "Zenith", equipped with an oxygen-kerosene engine RD-171, became a prototype the modular part 11C25 of block A of the first stage of the 11K25 Energy booster rocket.

[Alikovo]

it will return to them the other side.

[Ezhaak]

Kazakhstan made the final choice in favor of the Ukrainian Zenit launch vehicle for its space program, abandoning the Russian Angara

rejection of Angara may indicate Russia's unwillingness to share it with Kazakhstan

Well, it was said long ago that there would be no "Angara" in Kazakhstan! And what is this "refusal"? A good mine with a bad game?

[Debryansk]

And whether we need to share new technologies with Kazakhstan, Ukraine or with someone else, of course not. We must use these countries to partially finance projects, providing an opportunity to purchase ready-made missiles, assembled completely at our enterprises, at a discount.

[tilovaykrisa]

Yes, let it happen, master Barin, only then without any complaints, and back when they crawl up to give a point of 5 they say lowering into 1 river to enter twice now we are no longer interested in you.

[essenger]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Yes, let it happen, master Barin, only then without any complaints, and back when they crawl up to give a point of 5 they say lowering into 1 river to enter twice now we are no longer interested in you.

No one's gonna crawl

[tilovaykrisa]

Time will tell.

[Zymran]

Will show. The power in Kazakhstan will change and everyone will forget about wild integration projects.

[ultra]

Quote: Zymran

The power in Kazakhstan will change and everyone will forget about wild integration projects.

Do you dream about it?

[Zymran]

Quote: ultra

Do you dream about it?

In the form in which these integration projects are now presented, they do one harm and not a gram of benefit.

[essenger]

Quote: ultra

Quote: Zymran

The power in Kazakhstan will change and everyone will forget about wild integration projects.

Do you dream about it?

I dream that Kazakhstan will leave all integration processes in the post-Soviet space.

[ultra]

Quote: Essenger

I dream that Kazakhstan will leave all integration processes in the post-Soviet space.

And there are many of you there (in Kazakhstan)?

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: ultra

Do you dream about it?

The Kazakhs, who do not want excessive rapprochement with Russia, simply see that part of the Russians and Russian officials, to put it mildly, are not friends with Kazakhstan and the Kazakhs. The majority of Kazakhs consider it necessary to integrate with their neighbors (not only with Russia), but they also see all these negative manifestations (even at this forum). However, they are simply optimists (like me) and hope that in Russia the main population also wants integration and at the same time they do not imagine themselves above the rest.
Not a single Kazakh supporter of integration admits the thought that this integration would turn into the Soviet version (in the sense when the opinion of the Kazakhs was ignored a little more than completely, and instead of developing our own culture, we were forcedly "cut" under the sauce of a "single Soviet community" ).
In Russia, many still perceive current and future alliances with their neighbors as a reconstruction of the Russian Empire. Do we need it? The Eurasian Union by the Kazakhs is perceived as a real equal society of member states, this was the idea of ​​Nazarbayev.
In Russia, the masses often present this idea in a distorted form, which is unacceptable for Kazakhs (Ukrainians and others). If Belarusians agree to Russify, then this is their problem. The rest do not want to confuse a political, military, economic union with the concept of "Russian space".
If Russia believes that the future Union is just expansion of Russia (as it was in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR) at the expense of other lands, then I will be the first to enter the square in front of Akorda's residence with a poster for withdrawing from all "integration" projects with Russia. And if Russia perceives its neighbors as equal partners, then I will make every effort for an early military-political-economic union.
I am somehow not interested in living in a pseudo-union, where they will again mold a "Russian man" from my Mongoloid muzzle. And my country will be considered exclusively as a raw material base. At the same time, constantly reproaching the same fact. In my opinion, we have already gone through all this.
Want "business and nothing personal"? You can get it. Only you will not have joy from this. Moreover, the lion's share of the economy of the Urals and Western Siberia is tied to Kazakhstan. This is from the rupture of economic ties with Georgia, Russia does not lose anything. But Kazakhstan is a completely different song. So the phrase "Business and nothing personal" in our relationship is unacceptable. If the Kazakhs begin to adhere to such tactics, then Russia will lose on all counts. Starting from the fact that it will be forced to create on the basis of the Central Military District - full-fledged troops and deploy border guards along the entire border and ending with the fact that your budget will stop earning on the re-export of Central Asian hydrocarbons to Europe.
Or we are allies and resolve issues in a reasonable consensus, or we run up nafig in different directions. You are engaged in a purely Russian empire, and then we will build the Turkic Kaganate. True, in the end, there will be a confrontation, because the Turkic world is the lion's share of the Russian Federation from Yakutia to the North Caucasus.
No one wants a similar confrontation scenario. It’s easier to live together, as it has always been since the days of the Haganates, principalities, the Horde, the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR. Take-off in different directions - it’s cutting in a living way. This is not a separation of Algeria from France or India from Britain, we have all mixed up our languages, culture, economy, history, geography a hundred times here. Sometimes you can’t figure out where is yours and where is ours.

[ed65b]

Sooner or later, the Kazakhs will have to close the Baikonur, since they themselves cannot and there are no others. Is Ukraine a serious partner? The space industry of Ukraine is left to live for six months, a year maximum. They even closed their anti-aircraft missile project. As soon as the paper on the association with the EU is signed, dry all the oars. Kazakhstan, as a member of the CU, I don’t know how Makar will be able to work with Ukraine, bypassing Russia.

[Zymran]

Quote: ed65b

As soon as the paper on the association with the EU is signed, dry all the oars. Kazakhstan, as a member of the CU, I don’t know how Makar will be able to work with Ukraine, bypassing Russia.

And what are the problems in working with Ukrainians?

[ed65b]

So far, no, then there will be.

[Concept1]

Russia is creating the Vostochny cosmodrome not to annoy its neighbors, but to breathe new life into the Far East. This is a strategic project for Russia! Vostochny will be the most modern cosmodrome on the planet with advanced technical solutions. Therefore, it is more expedient to create the revolutionary Angara missile system from the beginning on its territory, and then, based on its national interests at that future moment in history, it is possible in Kazakhstan, and maybe somewhere else, for example, in French Guiana!

I want to immediately explain two main technological solutions for which I consider the Angara missile system revolutionary:
1. This is a modular system of 5-7mi load classes.
2. This is the further development of the complex by creating a reusable first stage.

And a little pathos: the most modern missile system at the most modern spaceport!

[yanus]

Something tells me that before the final departure to Vostochny, the last proton will explode right on the launch pad, breaking off the half-launch site. No, well, we’ll pay a little money for an apology, but the Kazakhs will have another reason to think - where are they and where is space.

[MVS]

Quote: yanus

Something tells me that before the final departure to Vostochny, the last proton will explode right on the launch pad, breaking off the half-launch site. No, well, we’ll pay a little money for an apology, but the Kazakhs will have another reason to think - where are they and where is space.

And what is the meaning of this act? Our specialists will die, there will be a serious fire (there is something to burn at the cosmodrome ...), the earth in these places will be soiled for decades. And the "Proton" itself is not worth five rubles, a failed launch with a trailer is a blow to the reputation of Roscosmos.

[edge]

Quote: yanus

Something tells me that before the final departure to Vostochny, the last proton will explode right on the launch pad, breaking off the half-launch site. No, well, we’ll pay a little apology for the money, but the Kazakhs will have another reason to think - where are they and where is the cosmos

our mentality does not allow you to spoil friends, neighbors and partners: at you have something with your brains, probably seen enough Anglo-American cinema .....

[ed65b]

Not the proton half of the Baikonur will not blow apart, unless the nuclear charge is mounted.

[Panikovsky]

Well, of course, Russia is building its own cosmodrome in the Far East, and it will definitely build it. and Kazakhs will only be left to use. plugs. so they are boiling water.

[SPLV]

I don't quite understand the bitterness of some commentators. There are practically no chances that Russia will leave Baikonur. The construction of Vostochny is a desire to influence Kazakhstan, including, but with adequate policies of both sides, the Kazakh site will remain working and loaded with Russian equipment. The same China is building itself another, or the fourth, or the fifth cosmodrome and does not consider it unnecessary. Russia has launch sites - Plesetsk, Kapustin Yar, Baikonur. Soon there will be East. Or does it seem superfluous to someone that the most high-tech production receives additional development? And the attempts of some, who are not at all our comrades, by speculations to generate another conflict, show that outside "comrades" have their own interests in Kazakhstan, for example, transit military bases. You don't have to be led by the calves.

[Ram chandra]

It seems to me that Russia takes advantage of the fact that in 1) Russia is a monopoly on this issue - it breaks prices / conditions as it wants. 2) That’s all - from the Russian side. Russia acts as a producer / performer. Kazakhs are like customers. Kazakhs really want to at least a little understanding in these complex technologies, so as not to be deceived. But alas. The remaining specialists are old people from the USSR. New? So in Kazakhstan there is no base to train. Students on training? Who benefits from teaching strangers? In general - rightly so. I see this situation as deplorable in the sense that a Kazakh has galloped on a horse and wants to buy a satellite / missiles, and he doesn’t bother about it. Everyone is looking for the guilty - why they say they are trying to deceive him - but he is to blame. As long as there are no specialists of their own — Kazakhs need to get out of it — to deal with the third party, or better, with many. Learn, study and study again. To be able to and be able to. And this is a very long process. So far, in the hockey and ballet sections, I see only Russians. I do not think that in the electronics section the situation is different. Who likes to promote science / sports / culture, and who plays asics.

[mark1]

Yes, Kazakhstan has everything, there would be a desire. If you want to study, study. If you want in Russia, you want in Ukraine. if you want a rocket - here's a Zenith for you - enter the cooperation, build something for it, you don't like the Zenith, enter the Soyuz cooperation (even buy the whole technology and order it to build a factory), if you want - your original nat. open the program and take South Korea or Israel as a teacher (they are promising), everything to your taste, just invest. And according to your statements, it looks like you see the only justice - a Kazakh galloped on horseback to the cosmodrome, they put him on a carpet, treated him to pilaf, kumys, played on a stick with a hole, showed how the rocket flies away, gave a bag of dough, glass beads and let him go in peace until the next launch ... And it’s not me trying to humiliate you - you yourself are always trying to get into this position.

[Ram chandra]

I do not quite understand your position. Just in case, I’ll say that self-criticism does not prevent me from striving for objectivity.

[mark1]

My position is quite clearly visible, if you want to be a cosmic power - be everything in your hands and only in your hands, you have the means, there are plenty of options for cooperation. Choose with whom you will do your pH and sincerely wish you good luck.

[dropout]

Guys! Shame. Bought today an electric dryer for shoes, called "Autumn". Great advertising, the river with this name is in the Tver province, when it rains there, your slippers will not be wet, etc. And below in small letters, we had to take a magnifying glass, made in the PRC SPECIALLY for Russia. If things go the same way, then our grandchildren will be told tales about the snake Gorynych that took off from Baikonur on the Proton, and then we got tired of flying and we ourselves weaved white sandals ...

[Vtel]

Let them fly to Zenit, so that politics is such a thing that a frying pan with a hole in the bottom will burn there, then it won't heat up there. At this time, yes, we need to put things in order in the space industry, but in general, not everything is so bad, and the 5th column also seems to have a hand here. Time will tell. We need tight control in such complex and responsible industries, otherwise everyone wants to give it up to commerce right now.

[Ivanovich47]

The Vostochny Far East cosmodrome is an impetus for the development of the region's infrastructure. this is the creation of a huge number of jobs. The most important thing. this is the creation of a domestic cosmodrome on Russian territory. Why bear the additional costs of renting a baikonur?

[Drummer]

Then, that Baikonur is more convenient in a geographical sense (farther south and closer to the European part of the Russian Federation) and has a ready-made infrastructure. Nobody stutters about refusing to rent Baikonur; Roscosmos plans to use it at least until 2050.

[Uncle Serozha]

Let's not pour dirt on Ukrainian rocket scientists, it's just unsportsmanlike. Ukrainians are our brotherly people and I am absolutely sure of that.
Yes, I'm Russian, so I'm sorry that the Russian missile lost. But for the same reason, I'm glad I won Ukrainian rocket, not some other.
And from the defeats it is necessary to draw conclusions.

[Wiruz]

Wow!!! We also have our own space program in Kazakhstan ?! Did not know...

[Nursultan]

Yes, we have a space program and Kazkosmos sends young specialists to study in France, Russia to study. They want to open an assembly and testing center in Astana. and there is now a recruitment of specialists.

[Wiruz]

My friend. I forgot to write here that my previous message was not surprise, but sarcasm. I will tell you a terrible secret - half of those young specialists will not return to their homeland (they will remain in France and Russia), and the other half of the "specialists" will rush into Kazkosmos for leading (! Only!) Positions and will steal. And the rockets ... and the rockets will fall, only everyone except the Kazkosmos will be to blame.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Wiruz

half of those young specialists will not return to their homeland (will remain in France and Russia)

For 20 years, out of 10000 Bolashakites, only 47 people for one reason or another turned out to be defectors. So don’t scare yourself.

Quote: Wiruz

and the other half of the "specialists" will rush into Kazkosmos for leading (! only!) positions and will steal.

reasoning taxi driver.

Quote: Wiruz

And the rockets ... and the rockets will fall, only everyone will be to blame for this except the Kazakh cosmos.

Is it like a hint that the Kazakhs bear a share of responsibility for the Russian accidents at Baikonur? Or a hint that Kazakhs, having received a specialized education, are dumber than Russians and will never be able to launch rockets?

[Wiruz]

Well ... Of course, you from the United States know better what is happening here in Kazakhstan.

[Nursultan]

Quote: Wiruz

My friend. I forgot to write here that my previous message was not surprise, but sarcasm. I will tell you a terrible secret - half of those young specialists will not return to their homeland (they will remain in France and Russia), and the other half of the "specialists" will rush into Kazkosmos for leading (! Only!) Positions and will steal. And the rockets ... and the rockets will fall, only everyone except the Kazkosmos will be to blame.

I don’t think everyone will get the chairs of the bosses. and others will have to break through their minds. let out of 10 - 8 people become bosses, there remain 2 who will really work. and so slowly we will stand firm on our feet. as they say Rome was not built in one day.

[Wiruz]

Nursultan, I respect your patriotism, but please think at your leisure about the future of Kazakhstan. What will happen to our country in 20 years, when oil runs out and only horsemeat can be exported? Why do we need our own rockets, our own space program and other show-offs if we don’t know what we will eat tomorrow. It was precisely the uselessness of this space program and the absurdity of its existence that my first comment was directed.

[Marek Rozny]

Alexei, American flag thanks to Beeline. I am physically in Kazakhstan. I have never been to the USA.
Do not think that Kazakhstan relies only on oil. The money from oil goes to the creation of other sectors of the economy, as well as to infrastructure projects. Of course, it seems to someone that they are "screwed up", but if you study the economic realities of our country at least a little, your opinion will begin to change.
By the way, let me remind you that the raw material base of Kazakhstan was created not by "stupid Kazakhstani officials", but in the Soviet era, which you probably miss. What are we talking about if the Kazakh SSR did not produce any mayonnaise, or nails, or canned milk, or electrical household goods (except for the Medeu radio)?
It is only at the present time that the state is clearly pursuing a policy of diversifying the economy and reducing the raw materials sector in the country's GDP. Until 1991, all talk about this was cut off in Moscow at the root. So the question is "why do we have a resource-based economy?" it would be worth asking the then Soviet authorities in Moscow.
And the question: "What for us a space program and rockets?" as relevant for us as for a simple Soviet citizen of 1950, when your country is still in ruins, when there is a shortage of basic goods, when the people seem to have a lot of other problems than space exploration. Let's call the then efforts of the Soviet government "show-off" and "unnecessary"?
Wake up, today is 2013. And I have a feeling that you were stuck in 1995. Well, or not interested in their own country since that year.

[Nursultan]

Quote: Wiruz

Nursultan, I respect your patriotism, but please think at your leisure about the future of Kazakhstan. What will happen to our country in 20 years, when oil runs out and only horsemeat can be exported? Why do we need our own rockets, our own space program and other show-offs if we don’t know what we will eat tomorrow. It was precisely the uselessness of this space program and the absurdity of its existence that my first comment was directed.

At one time, people did not believe that we would assemble cars in the Republic of Kazakhstan. look now in the RK collect saengi, hyundai, etc. even the military-industrial complex is slowly building it. I personally know a company in the Republic of Kazakhstan that produces modernized P-18, 5N84, communication machines, etc.
p / s All this was not created in one day and I am sure that it will only continue to increase, let us take small steps in front of us.

[Boot under the carpet]

Quote: Sirs

Here we beat ourselves with low-quality rockets. and then we say that everything is against us. Everything is right. Kazakhstan is doing what for does it need a partner where not a start is an accident or some abnormal cases.

Dude zamusnusili :) Zealous patriots. I also love my country, but you need to look the truth of the eye! Kazakhstan has done what is good for it! It remains to be happy for Ukraine, and we will be a lesson. Look and space will begin to tighten!

[saag]

Quote: Nursultan

Yes, we have a space program and Kazkosmos sends young specialists to study in France, Russia to study. They want to open an assembly and testing center in Astana. and there is now a recruitment of specialists.

Yes, they heard, 35 people were sent, supposedly the satellites will be collecting in this assembly workshop, it’s not clear whose and what kind of assembly, like a screwdriver or something7 For some reason, there is a lot of talk about Kazakhstan’s space intentions, but I haven’t seen any information about the current state Zenit launch moment

[saag]

Quote: Uncle Seryozha

I'm sorry that the Russian missile lost.

What is the loss then?

[Drummer]

RK's refusal from Angara is a wake-up call, given that the launch (originally scheduled for 2005) is constantly being postponed, and even more far from full-fledged operation.

[Aeneas]

frankly, Zenith is not Russian or Ukrainian, but a Soviet missile developed and produced in Dnepropetrovsk. Perhaps the best RN in the USSR, so the choice of the Kazakhs is correct. Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan benefit from this choice. If this project is really implemented (knocking on wood, spitting over my left shoulder), then I will not be surprised if Russia starts to use Zenith "to its fullest", at least as components (booster stages) of a heavy rocket-successor to Energiya, as and they are offered at RSC Energia ... Concerning the Angara. This rocket will be hard. Here it is appropriate to draw an analogy with the Bulava, which has already been "almost made" and "almost adopted" and this whole story has been going on for the second decade. Angara - as a Lego constructor for all types of missiles - is not a trivial task at all, which was not "performed" even in the USSR, and what can we say now, in the period after the collapse of the rocket industry and engineering personnel. Of course, I wish the Russians success, but I am skeptical.

[January]

I think the option is much closer that after the November signing, Russia will simply close its cooperation on the Zenith and that’s all - there is no Zenith, write letters.

[Marek Rozny]

I do not think that Russia will put sticks in the wheels of Zenith. Nazarbayev and Putin stopudovo have already discussed this matter. If Russia made it clear that it would oppose the Zenith, it would be unlikely that Kazakhstan would officially announce that it was choosing a Ukrainian missile.
In short, everything is theoretically possible, but in reality, I think, everything has already been finally agreed between the three countries.

[studentmati]

Kazakhstan finally abandoned the Russian missile in favor of the Ukrainian one.

Gossip it all ...

[Vlad_Mir]

What part of Zenit can Ukraine produce on its own? The last launch ended in disaster due to the fault of the Ukrainian side. It is unlikely that the situation in the space industry in Ukraine is better than in Russia. The number of launches of Ukrainian missiles is simply impressive!)))

[January]

Bullshit is everything. Russia wants - there will be no Zenith. Ukrainians themselves can’t even pull in lousy OTRKs — not just to make a new rocket.

[Max otto]

I think everything looks a little different. Russia is building a new cosmodrome to get rid of Baikonur. does not want to fully depend on a partner (afraid of new, possibly fair demands). Kazakhstan wants to develop a space program, seeing that Russia can leave Baikonur, it has found a backup option - Zenit. Everything is logical and not so scary. It's just a little sad that there is a CU, the Eurasian Union is preparing, the CSTO. But all this is an empty phrase, it all does not work to the end, everyone wants to warm up their partner, they don’t agree that way. Based on the events taking place, we can conclude that the leaders of the three key powers either do not have full power, or cannot abandon petty clan or personal interests. There is no trust in each other, there was no need to start, there is not enough steel in the causal places of the current leaders (well, who has more, who has less). It remains only to wait until those appear, but for now we live separately. Something like this.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Max Otto

everyone wants to heat a partner, so do not agree

Philistine opinion:
I have a clear feeling that the Russian Federation is doing this. At least individuals. The most typical example in this case is the leadership of Roskosmos, which redirects negativity from itself to Kazakhstan. Those. instead of dealing with the shoals of this agency, a universal howl about "unreasonable Kazakhs" rises ... And I see it from them - it turns out great ...
And instead, in order to solve real problems, it turns into a banal woman’s swara ..

Quote: Max Otto

It’s just a little sad that there is a TS, the Eurasian Union is preparing, the CSTO.

It is a little sad that Kazakhstan as a whole, and Kazakhs in particular, towards Russia and Russians from old times, still have a benevolent and respectful attitude .. But this moral authority (capital, touched) left over from the USSR is rapidly wasted.
Continue on - you are doing great ...
Instead of developing joint projects and I emphasize MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL COOPERATION, representatives of the Russian Federation with tenacity worthy of another application, push the Kazakh side to work with the West, etc.
It is especially interesting against the background of how Russians literally crawl in front of others ..
Then do not be especially surprised when the RK will develop joint projects with anyone, and not with Russia .. The first signs are already there, then there will be more ..
And, what is interesting, there will again be a hysteria about "traitors - Kazakhs" ...

[Max otto]

You have a huge + from me, you understood everything correctly.

Quote: Alibekulu

Quote: Max Otto

everyone wants to heat a partner, so do not agree

Philistine opinion:
I have a clear feeling that the RF is doing just that.

The Russian Federation is doing this most of all, but they can be understood. During the collapse, whoever just didn’t spit on Russia’s back, wiping their feet about the Russians was considered a common thing, all investors were just taking property, and they concluded contracts that were obviously unprofitable for the Russian Federation through bribes. Newfound crime businessmen have learned well from them. This always happens when there is no responsibility. And now, by the way, an opportunity to break this circle appeared: The case with Belkali - Kerimov is an obvious gangster, he has already highlighted his ties in the state apparatus, the Russian leadership can only make a strong-willed decision and take action - the arrest of those involved and the nationalization of Uralkali, this move, as it unfolds business is very real.
And there will be a precedent for supporting honest business and a blow to crime and corruption, after which there will be TRUST, after which all the hostility will resolve.

[ImPerts]

I will quote the participant in the discussion:

Quote: Ascetic

There is an official document according to which our joint relations are being built. All other "news" like this is just information slag. And the document is called the Joint Action Plan of Kazakhstan and Russia for 2013-2015.
In particular, in space there in black and white the following:
15. Continue work on the implementation of the Baiterek project based on the Zenit launch vehicle at the Baikonur cosmodrome. Executors: from the Kazakh side - the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan, from the Russian side - the Federal Space Agency. Implementation period: 2013-2015. 17. Develop and prepare for signing a bilateral agreement governing the procedure for joint use of the Baikonur cosmodrome. Executors: from the Kazakh side - the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan; from the Russian side - the Federal Space Agency. Terms of implementation: 2013. The plan of joint actions of Kazakhstan and Russia for 2013-2015 was approved by the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan N.A. Nazarbayev and the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin December 19, 2012, Moscow Regarding the further fate of Bayterek, in July of this year, a trilateral protocol was signed by Musabayev, Popovkin and Alekseev on this project and its implementation, that is, on the transition to the Zenit launch vehicle. At the moment, the space agency of Ukraine should send its proposals for further cooperation on the Baiterek project to Kazkosmos and Roskosmos.

[Selevc]

What difference does rockets fly or not? What difference will Baikonur live or will it be turned over for scrap?
The main thing is that all the Russian and Kazakh chiefs associated with the Cosmos and their cousins ​​in chocolate - with big salaries, Mercedes and arranged children !!!
The times of fanatical enthusiasts such as Korolev, Chelomey and Yangel are long gone - the times of businessmen from the Cosmos who, by and large, do not care if Angara or Zenith will fly - the main thing is that the money flows like a river and as much as possible !!! And cooperate, develop and create a gray herd of these "rubber asses" simply does not know how!

I wonder how many commercial launches were made from Baikonur in the 20 years after the collapse of the USSR? How many millions were earned on this? Why is so little invested in this money in Baikonur itself and in new launch vehicles? And the main thing is not even that was invested a little or a lot, but that the effectiveness of these investments is scanty !!!

One thing is surprising - how far the generation of Soviet missile developers looked - they all died for a long time and many of their ideas and design decisions are still largely basic and advanced in rocket science !!!

[mithridate]

Are you sure that everything is exactly as official sources say? Maybe not so simple?

[saag]

Quote: Alibekulu

Instead of developing joint projects and I emphasize, MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL COOPERATION, representatives of the Russian Federation with tenacity worthy of another application, push the Kazakh side to work with the West, etc.
It is especially interesting against the background of how Russians literally crawl in front of others ..
Then do not be especially surprised when the RK will develop joint projects with anyone, and not with Russia .. The first signs are already there, then there will be more ..

This is a kind of supply of a justifying basis for how Kazakhstan gave the oil industry to the Americans + the EU, now China also buys out a share for debts, metallurgy to the Indians, it is not clear to whom at all? Dariga, on the space theme, remarkably said, "if we need a satellite, we'll buy it, we'd better do what we do best - animal husbandry." What projects does Kazakhstan want to solve in space on mutually beneficial terms?

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

This is a type of acquittal supply

It would be in front of someone ...
To whom we want - to that we sell ..

Quote: saag

Dariga, on the space theme, remarkably said, "If we need a satellite, we'll buy it, we'd better do what we do best - animal husbandry."

And there will be livestock and satellites ..

Quote: saag

What projects does Kazakhstan want to solve in space on mutually beneficial conditions?

There will be, wait a bit - the satellites have already (not Russian) launched ..
Come on, look for "kakashki" in Kazakhstan ...

[saag]

Quote: Alibekulu

and satellites ..

and their missiles, too, I suppose? :-)

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

and their missiles, too, I suppose? :-)

Ah, smartie The mustache will be .. and until we reach the rockets ..
Here you are now sitting at a Russian computer ?? !!
And the Internet that you are currently using is also an invention of the Russian genius ??!
Ah, Taiwanese microcircuits used by Roscosmos .. which we discussed ..

[saag]

Quote: Alibekulu

Quote: saag

and their missiles, too, I suppose? :-)

Ah, smartie The mustache will be .. and until we reach the rockets ..
Here you are now sitting at a Russian computer ?? !!
And the Internet that you are currently using is also an invention of the Russian genius ??!
Ah, Taiwanese microcircuits used by Roscosmos .. which we discussed ..

"And apple trees will bloom on Mars" (C) I thought a person would at least ask if there were any restrictions, but no, like "will" how to do it

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

I thought a person would at least ask if there were any restrictions, but no, like "will" how to do it from nefig

Look at yourself..
As Kazakhstan, you have no "restrictions" right away ..

[saag]

The fact that there is an agreement on the non-proliferation of missile technologies and the fact that Ukraine still does not have a full-fledged missile of its own and the name of the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau and the Dnepropetrovsk factories with personnel does not have any effect...

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

Not the horse's feed, as they say

Oh, I see you've completely eaten too much oats...

Quote: saag

there is a non-proliferation treaty

What’s the problem?. Let the Russian Federation or Roscosmos ban... And, for Kazakhstan, in this case, their hands will be free for further actions..
By the way, Ukraine had “restrictions” when it conducted sales to China, the USA, etc.??!!

[tanit]

The last explosion that smashed the launch position to smithereens (I’m talking about Baikonur) was precisely the explosion of the Zenit launch vehicle (back in the 20th century). Then there were also “badabums” on a floating launch, but not so large-scale. Yes, a very promising rocket. Just for the USA and China. (That’s what they need)

[tanit]

Well, Zenit got off to a good start tonight. And the Israeli satellite is already in the given orbit. The only question (and the answer too) is the share of Kazakh and Ukrainian specialists in the starting calculation? Is that a lot? What if we remove those who flew in for business trips, but didn’t get a chance? What, so there’s no one at all? Take it, let it go... Just first, train at least someone. Neither the Ukrainians nor the Kazakhs have the required number of specialists. And even if they do, it won’t be in this century. No infrastructure. There is no control center, no IPs. And so...Alga, Komsomol!

[tanit]

As they say, rumors about the death of Baikonur are “slightly” exaggerated. My city is still too alive for a “ghost town”.

[Rider]

Quote: tanit

My city is still too alive for a “ghost town”.

this is for now, this is for now. (With)

[tanit]

And I don’t argue that forever. But “for now, for now” still exists. And Proton will leave on September 17. And PKK Soyuz 27.09 (local time, if anything) will go away without any problems. Who else is doing manned flights? Come on, gentlemen, experts, give us some statistics? If it’s not embarrassing, how many manned launches have there been and which countries (countries) have had 20 in the last few years (or in the last 2 years, which is even more poignant)? And at the same time, statistics on manned accidents? Weak?

[Rider]

Why such statements?
Did I dispute something with you?

I expressed a simple and clear thought: WHILE Russian launches are going on from Baikonur, UNTIL THE complex is alive.

and then you can switch to shuttles WHAT and WHERE will you launch?

[tanit]

I apologize, I got excited... I was just at this launch. I've seen enough of the Kazakh-Ukrainian "specialists". And if there are no special questions for the Ukrainians - there are representatives of the Yuzhnoye State Design Bureau, factory workers and not launchers, then any Ukrainian can envy the degree of "gentry's ambition" of the Kazakh side...

[tanit]

And the “shuttles” were already leaving Baikonur. Buran was called. And the runway under them “for now, for now” is still very much alive. Used as an airfield. And it's still in working order.

[tanit]

And if it concerns manned spacecraft (it’s terrible, the polymers are not digested...) - the Russian Federation has not had a single accident on the UK. If anyone knows, “Shumilin “Explosion at the start!” wheezed” almost 30 years ago, back during the Soviet Union.

[saag]

Quote: Alibekulu

What’s the problem.. let the Russian Federation or Roscosmos ban..

Russia may just agree, but the Washington regional committee does not

[saag]

Quote: Alibekulu

By the way, Ukraine had “restrictions” when it conducted sales to China, the USA, etc.??!!

What was she selling? Engine manufacturing technologies? Ban on transfer of missile technology to third countries

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

What was she selling? Engine manufacturing technologies? Ban on transfer of missile technology to third countries

Need I remind you that Russia itself has sold and is selling. If not herself, then certain individuals.
The arrest and trial of several Russian teachers for selling state secrets is an example of this.
And Ukraine, or rather some figures (from the outside) sells everything that can be sold.. And, if there is demand, it will also sell these technologies..
And, what Russia sold and handed over in the notorious 90s has long become the talk of the town..

[saag]

Quote: tanit

then any Ukrainian can envy the degree of “gentry ambition” of the Kazakh side...

Oh yes, it’s all about showing off, we’ll make a rocket, and at the very least we’ll print it on a 3D printer, where it will come from is unknown

[tanit]

Our everything (whose are you talking about)? Not quite like that... Kazakhstan had a state program, it did. Even actively pensioners with 11284 (future) were lured with a long shadow. The date of the first launch from Baiterek (site 201 of Baikonur, I won’t name the launch site number) was set for 2009. The start was ruined, and now they will also ruin site 45.

[tanit]

There is also a specialist training program...Yes. It’s just that last night I didn’t see any young Kazakhstanis. I saw drunken strikers.

[tanit]

There are ethnic Kazakhs, citizens of the Russian Federation. They are specialists. There are quite a few of them. But they just work for Russia. And how is Kazakhstan going to lure them to itself in numbers sufficient to launch Zenit-2?

[Marek Rozny]

You can lure away specialists (either Russian or American) with a simple thing. Salary. For the budget of Kazakhstan, maintaining a staff of good Varangian engineers is not burdensome. They just don’t want to include this resource now, so as not to spoil relations with Roscosmos. But if Roscosmos continues to behave like an arrogant pig, then Kazkosmos will stupidly lure Russian specialists with high salaries. Moreover, in Russia they receive pennies (there were articles on this topic this year).

Israel raised its science by buying Soviet "brains" (not only Jewish ones) air tickets to Tel Aviv. I came across this expression from an Israeli science official about 9 years ago, when in our department we were studying this country’s experience in creating an innovative economy.
Later, this principle was applied to attract specialists from abroad to work at Nazarbayev University in Astana. If necessary, legionnaires will be recruited quickly into the space industry - we will give money, awards, apartments, and all other necessary conditions for work and fame.
ZY Let me remind you that just a few years ago there was no automobile industry in Kazakhstan. Today, a bunch of car assembly plants have already been created with a certain level of localization, which will increase from year to year. And now work has already begun on creating a full cycle of auto production. If there is a goal, then the government takes all measures to achieve it. Although the average person is fixated on the topic “Ahhh, bastard officials! They increased duties on the Pajero!”, without understanding and not wanting to understand what the end result will be.

[Zymran]

Quote: Marek Rozny

Israel raised its science by buying Soviet "brains" (not only Jewish ones) air tickets to Tel Aviv. I came across this expression from an Israeli science official about 9 years ago, when in our department we were studying this country’s experience in creating an innovative economy.

Do you seriously think that Soviet brains made such a big contribution to Israeli science?
I wonder what our Jewish friends will say on this topic.

Quote: Marek Rozny

Although the average person is fixated on the topic “Ahhh, bastard officials! They increased duties on the Pajero!”, without understanding and not wanting to understand what the end result will be.

The end result is to overwhelm the country with basins and shitty Chinese.

Quote: Marek Rozny

Let me remind you that just a few years ago there was no automobile industry in Kazakhstan. Today, a bunch of car assembly plants have already been created with a certain level of localization, which will increase from year to year. And now work has already begun on creating a full cycle of auto production

And we don’t need her. I know about a plant in Ust-Kamenogorsk, where they assemble basins, Skodas and like KIAs with a screwdriver. What other factories are there, and even with a promising full cycle?

[Marek Rozny]

Car production in Kazakhstan has increased 20 times in 3 years (the life of the vehicle). In 2012, 21236 cars were assembled, including 19094 passenger cars (an increase of 2,3 times compared to 2011) and 1771 units of trucks (an increase of 1,9 times), 191 buses (an increase of 1,7 times) and 180 units of special equipment.
14487 cars were assembled in the first half of 2013 (+ 83%).
657 billion tenge - Domestic machine-building enterprises produced products for this amount in 2012. Localization is somewhere around 30%, the remaining parts are imported. On average, the level of domestic parts everywhere will be increased to 50%.

In addition to the mentioned Asia-Auto (Oskemen), there is also Sary-Arka Avtoprom (Kostanay), Astana-Motors, Allur-Avto (owner of Agromashholding, Kostanay), Kamaz-Engineering, etc.

SsangYoung, ZAZ, Iveco, Hyundai, Kamaz, Nefaz, Skoda, Chevrolet, Lada, etc. are assembled in KZ. Law enforcement agencies and other government agencies use almost only domestic cars.

In addition to the stamps already collected, new stamps related to Toyota and Peugeot will appear in the near future.
Toyota plans to release the Fortuner model in Kostanay in the spring of 2014. Peugeot is about to release the Peugeot 301, Peugeot 308, Peugeot 508 and Peugeot Partner in KZ.

So far, all real projects are working on the large-knot assembly (DKD) system, but in November 2013, CKD will begin working at AgromashHolding - this is a different level of production, just metal comes to the plant, and a whole car comes out of the workshop. Then CKD will start "Asia Auto". The first stage is designed for 60 thousand cars, the second - for another 60 thousand until 2017. In total, this is 120 thousand cars only on AsiaAuto projects. Plus an assembly of DKD, which they are already releasing.

In general, by 2020, Kazakh factories plan export (primarily to Russia) 220-300 thousand cars. This figure was not taken out of thin air, but a calculation made by the Ministry of Industry and Kazakh automobile plants.

[Marek Rozny]

The automotive industry stimulates the creation and development of a number of related enterprises - batteries, glass, plastic, paint, wires, etc. All this is already being produced or is being prepared for launch.

We have not come up with anything new in creating this industry. In the early 2000s, officials simply studied foreign experience and then redrawn legislation to create the necessary conditions. As a result, even Russian automakers suddenly found themselves faced with the fact that the Kazakhs were very quickly setting up production and did not hide their intentions to “capture” 10% of the Russian market. AvtoVAZ, by the way, has already officially given its West Siberian market to the Ust-Kamenogorsk residents (but at the same time bought a blocking stake in the Kazakh plant). The rest of the manufacturers in Russia will have to “fight” with Kazakh car factories, since the cost of Kazakh cars is lower (due to taxes, energy prices and the lack of idle capacity and other ballast).
Yes, today we deliberately lost to the Russians on our own field by joining the CU, but tomorrow, precisely because of the CU, the Russians will begin to lose to us on their market. Yes, today it will be expensive to buy a Japanese car, but we have created jobs within the country in a new industry. And we will buy Toyotas of our own production. Let them be other people's brands. Let these be licenses. But people work, and the lion’s share of the money remains within the country, and does not go 100% to other countries. Moreover, they have already begun to earn money from exports.
Kazakhstan copied the South Korean experience in the automotive industry. We are already accustomed to buying a domestically produced TV or DVD (albeit from a foreign label, for example LG), and soon we will get used to our own cars.

[saag]

Quote: tanit

And how is Kazakhstan going to lure them to itself in numbers sufficient to launch Zenit-2?

Well, I can imagine there is pressure on patriotic feelings, money, high positions, nothing else comes to mind

[tanit]

But it already happened. I lured the Republic of Kazakhstan (Republic of Kazakhstan) to a bunch of heads of canteens and clothing warehouses. I was horrified. )) It turns out that being a “respected warehouse manager” does not mean replacing the starting calculation number.

[tanit]

Now they work for us more carefully and without haste. But, God forbid, only by the end of this century will the Republic of Kazakhstan have its own specialists. Although, if you go to Turkish-patriotic sites, every first person there is S.P. Korolev.

[tanit]

Actually, we’ll discuss it after Proton. After a successful launch. There's not much left. And then also after a successful manned one.)) And about Glonas...Well, since 1982 the group has not developed in any way (Putin, Medvedev, Putin, Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Chernenko, Andropov...and Dear Leonid Ilyich are to blame)

[saag]

Quote: tanit

and Dear Leonid Ilyich

Well, what does he have to do with it, he also grunted in 1982?

[tanit]

He signed the program))) This means he is to blame for all its failures.

[saag]

Well, he did just a good job - he gave a start, but there is a problem with continuers and followers. So, dear Leonid Ilyich passed away into another world, his place was taken by Andropov, this one zealously took up affairs throughout the country, for which they put a bullet in his kidney and after short endeavors he followed dear Leonid Ilyich, Chernenko, well, what mountain heights are there, if sometimes he moved with difficulty, and after a short sitting he followed the previous ones, Gorbachev - perestroika, new thinking, the end of the Iron Curtain, the withdrawal of troops from Germany, Afghanistan, Prohibition, “We want change” by Viktor Tsoi, in general what on this Glonass background? Further dramatic events, Foros, Alexander Rutskoy with a machine gun, putsch of the State Emergency Committee, switch-off USSR, not up to Glonass and here, Yeltsin, “take as much sovereignty as you can,” parade of sovereignties, severance of economic ties, barter, flourishing of shuttles, first Chechen war, default , "I'm leaving..." on New Year's Eve, Putin "we'll wash it in the toilet", the second Chechen war, high oil prices, launch of Glonass satellites, launch of Glonass satellites, crisis of the 8th, sledgehammer and proton, our days...

[tanit]

About the sensors on the Proton - yes, there is something to laugh about. Well, who and when officially gave out the real reason right away, and not 50 years later? If only Pimply. He is an analyst of everything and everyone, of all times and peoples. But in general... sabotage or sloppiness - I know, but I won’t say)))

[tanit]

Yes, everything will be fine with him, or rather with her, with the Global Navigation System. There is only one problem - like failure, so - about polymers, like - luck - so about the same thing and with even greater frenzy. I usually silently read articles and comments - but here it’s already hot))

[saag]

Probably it will be :-)

[tanit]

You're right. We'll live and see.

[Concept1]

tanit If it's not a secret, who do you work for? Sincerely

[Vako]

Competition. Still, the main reason for this decision was its cost, although, in my opinion, Zenit has a higher percentage of trouble-free launches!

[Selevc]

To be honest, I don’t quite understand the disputes in the comments between Russians and Kazakhs - you need to come to an agreement and actively cooperate!!! Mutually beneficial work will benefit both peoples... It’s surprising that so far no hints have been heard from either Moscow or Astana about a common development strategy (including in the Space industry)... If only major strategic projects and agreements appeared between countries, you see, other neighbors would begin to cooperate more actively... And so far we see basically the same as the last 20 years - presidents actively hugging and walking arm in arm - but as they say, things are still there!!!
No - something is clearly going WRONG in the former Union space!!! Involuntarily, you begin to believe in the Occupation theory of Russian Deputy Fedorov!!!

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Selevc

It’s surprising that so far no hints have been heard from either Moscow or Astana about a general development strategy (including in the Space industry)

Initially, the strategy was as simple as 5 kopecks. The Kazakhs rent out the city and the cosmodrome to Russia for a symbolic sum, and Russia conducts full-scale activities there, not allowing the city to collapse.
Everything changed after Russia began to build a new cosmodrome and it became clear that Baikonur would get crumbs from the cosmic table, and this would cause the death of the city and the unique object. At the same time, Russia, naturally, will hold on to the fact that it will lease Baikonur for 50 years, and, naturally, during this time it will not let anyone in there, and upon the expiration of the lease it will simply return the dead city and the cosmodrome.
Of course, this does not suit the Kazakhs, who, to put it mildly, did not expect such a turn. The Kazakh proposals are as follows:
If Russia is going to transfer the bulk of launches from another cosmodrome, then let it give the Kazakhs the opportunity to prevent the city and cosmodrome from dying by participating in space projects. Moreover, participation is expected jointly with Russia. For this, the Kazakhs completely relieve Russia of the obligation to pay rent.
Since it is clear that the Russians will not cooperate with the Kazakhs in all projects, the Kazakhs propose to allow Ukraine to Baikonur in order to work with them where cooperation with Russia is unrealistic.
Roscosmos has been hysterical since the end of last year, presenting Kazakhs in articles in a completely different form to the way they appear. Roscosmos has created a picture from which it turns out that the Kazakhs simply stupidly want to kick Russia out of Baikonur, although no one in the government of Kazakhstan had and does not have such thoughts. And since the heads of departments could not find a common language, Nazarbayev himself flew to Moscow, where he agreed with Putin that real joint work at Baikonur would begin. It is unclear and unknown what the final configuration will look like - this is now being done by specialists and officials. They are looking for an acceptable option for using Baikonur.
Considering that Astana always agreed with Moscow on strategic issues, then I have no doubt that both Kazakhstan and Russia will cooperate at Baikonur and will not let it die. And now it becomes clear that Ukraine will also be involved in the Baikonur issue. And this is good. Because ideally, IMHO, “Soviet” people should work at Baikonur, not the US, French, Japanese or Chinese. Another thing is that if hypothetically the Russians do not begin cooperation, then Kazakhstan will be forced look for partners from third countries.
Baikonur is not going to get an Angara, this is already clear (however, it is not clear how Russia is going to return the Kazakh money spent on this joint project; however, Roscosmos is no stranger to "throwing money" at Astana - this is not the first time). So God himself ordered us to cooperate with the Ukrainians.