Military Review

Pavel Svyatenkov: Kiev has approached the line beyond which there is no return

428
If Ukraine becomes an associate member of the European Union, Moscow will not agree to any format of Kiev’s participation in the Customs Union: consent would mean a weakening of Russia's position in the post-Soviet space. But Russia sees an inadequate integration project without Ukraine, so until recently the political scientist Pavel Sviatenkov will fight for the participation of the fraternal republic in Eurasian integration.


28 August in Brussels, an extraordinary meeting of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the European Parliament was held, where they discussed Russia's trade policy towards Ukraine. On the Ukrainian side, opposition politicians, a deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, a possible presidential candidate of Ukraine, Vitali Klitschko, as well as one of the leaders of the united opposition Batkivshchyna, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, took part in the discussion.

What kind of Russian-Ukrainian relations will be if Ukraine signs an association agreement with the European Union, political scientist Pavel Svyatenkov told Voice of Russia.

- What do you think, how much more will Kiev chase after two hares and what will it end up with?

“I think that, of course, he will not have to chase two hares for a long time, because the Russian authorities have already warned Ukrainians that if there is an association agreement with the EU, there can be no talk of any benefits in relations with the Russian Federation. So, most likely, the Ukrainians have almost come close to the line beyond which there is no return.

- That is, it should be understood that they have made a choice in favor of the Western vector of development? In November, an association document with the EU is expected to be signed. This is true?

- I think yes. At the moment, Ukraine has made a choice in favor of the West. And, in general, Russia's attempts to still include Ukraine into the Customs Union have not yet yielded results.

- Prime Minister of Ukraine Mykola Azarov reiterated that Kiev is ready to look for some formats of participation in the Customs Union. If Moscow gives Kiev to understand from time to time that sitting on two chairs will not work, why does Kiev once again declare that it is ready to look for some formats of participation in the Customs Union? Do you think there are any signals from the Russian side that we don’t know about, or is it just such a maneuver of Ukrainian politicians?

- This is tacking. Here the question is not only economic, but also geopolitical. Russia can be a strong state and dominate the post-Soviet space only in alliance with Ukraine. The West understands this very well and is making every effort to cut Ukraine off from Russia.

And the Ukrainian authorities are between two fires. On the one hand, they want to go to Europe, because it strengthens the flimsy Ukrainian statehood, which until now cannot be called viable. On the other hand, they understand that breaking economic ties with Russia will cause very great damage to the Ukrainian economy, which can be irreparable, because the West often promises a lot, but does not always give a lot.

Therefore, the Ukrainian authorities between the two fires, but still at the moment are moving towards Europe.

- When the choice is between the European Union and the Customs Union, it is clear that Ukraine is looking for certain benefits for itself. Where would Kiev be more comfortable, more comfortable, where should it enter in order to get real benefits?

- From the point of view of Russia, of course, it would be much more profitable if Ukraine entered the Customs Union, because it would stabilize the situation in the post-Soviet space. Let me remind you that the Soviet Union collapsed precisely because Ukraine refused to enter the updated version of the Soviet Union, and this left Russia alone with the Central Asian states. As a result, the Soviet Union collapsed.

Now, in general, this situation is repeated. Without Ukraine, the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan will be inferior, will be too small to have a serious impact even in the post-Soviet space. Therefore, Russia is making every effort to still include Ukraine in the Customs Union.

- And will the Ukrainian industry, in general, the economic sector of the republic be bent if there is integration with the European Union? There are concerns that Ukrainian manufacturers simply will not stand competition with European ones.

- Most likely, it will be so. But then there is still hope that the Europeans will bring with them the European legal system, the European rules of the game, and this will strengthen the growth of the Ukrainian economy in some medium and long term.

Now Ukraine, of course, is a fairly weak state entity, which in the event of a crisis may even collapse. Therefore, Ukrainian elites are trying to rely on the West even, perhaps, at the price of their own economy.

- In the 2015, Ukraine will have a presidential election. Do you think the final point in the choice between the European Union and the Customs Union will be set before the vote or after all?

- I think that, of course, most likely, it will be delivered before the vote. Yes, of course, Yanukovych came to power under the slogans of friendship with Russia, this rhetoric was actively used. But in the same way, one of Yanukovich’s predecessors, Leonid Kuchma, actively used this rhetoric, but at the same time the real policy was completely different.

There is no need to be deceived. From the fact that, at the level of rhetoric, Yanukovych represents himself as a man advocating friendship with Russia, it does not follow that he will be friends with the Russian Federation in practice.

- If Ukraine chooses an association with the European Union, does this mean that the doors of the Customs Union will be permanently closed for it?

- I think that most likely this will happen. If Russia gives weakness in this matter, and Ukraine, having gone into association with the European Union, will simultaneously receive benefits in relations with the Customs Union, this will mean that Moscow does not control anything in the post-Soviet space, that Russia's positions are very weak, that you can play against it and to receive at the same time benefits largely due to the Russian Federation.

I think that if Ukrainians really go into association with the EU, Moscow will be forced to take some tough measures, primarily from a political point of view.

- For example, what measures?

- Most likely, the Russian side is now hinting that there will be a tougher attitude towards Ukrainian goods, because Russia is afraid of cheap exports from the countries of the European Union.

In addition, Russia argues that then all the negotiations on economic issues related to Ukraine should be conducted with Brussels, and not with Kiev, because Kiev already transfers sovereignty to Brussels.

In general, Russia threatens to tighten trade policy. Most likely, this tightening is justified, because Ukraine wants to have benefits, but does not want to assume any obligations.

“If Ukraine enters into association with the European Union, will Kiev not become a hostage and some kind of puppet in the hands of Brussels officials?”

- Of course, most likely it will be so. Practice shows that small EU countries, not as strong as Germany, France or Britain, are subjected to very tough pressure from the European Commission. Although Ukraine will not become a member of the European Union, but will only be in association with it, most likely, Brussels will have a tough influence on the policy of Kiev, as soon as Kiev signs under the association.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 31 August 2013 11: 19 New
    64
    With ANY development of events, Ukraine will feel like a LOSER ... and at any opportunity, remind its partners about it. But the time really came and it was time for her to make a CHOICE. I really want that it was made by the head, and not by other parts of the body ...
    1. Amur
      Amur 31 August 2013 16: 32 New
      49
      Quote: svp67
      With ANY development of events, Ukraine will feel like a LOSER ... and at any opportunity, remind its partners about it. But the time really came and it was time for her to make a CHOICE. I really want that it was made by the head, and not by other parts of the body ...

      Let Crimea be returned and feel as they want, I personally will spit ...
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 16: 54 New
        63
        Quote: Amur
        Let Crimea be returned and feel as they want, I personally will spit ...


        Well, if you ask from the Zapadents originally Russian lands, it can be based on this map, and not only Crimea. (clickable)
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 31 August 2013 17: 19 New
          16
          Guys, from which Ukrainians you are going to ask? With some kind of Mikola who plows like a horse and pays interest on a loan, or with whom? Do you want to ask the Ukrainian president? So you can’t ask anything from your own fool
          You look at Russia from the perspective of corruption, alcoholism, drug addiction, corrupt judges, crowded prisons, Chubbais, Putin, Navalny, Zhirinovsky, Zyuganov, oligarchs with offshore! Do you yourself then unite with all this?
          So why are you bored with Ukrainians or Belarusians?
          It’s crystal clear for the journalists: you can bark at your neighbors as much as you want, the government doesn’t care, the main thing is not to interfere with the money! But you are - reasonable people are being waged on this tyulka ???
          1. FATEMOGAN
            FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 17: 24 New
            45
            Quote: S_mirnov
            So why are you bored with Ukrainians or Belarusians?


            Nobody got it, I wrote that you need to ask from the zapadents, so in reality they are now steering Ukraine and directing the vector of the country's movement, it’s understandable the matter is with the help of Brussels and Washington, but they are pushing all the criminal ideas about separating us.
            1. roial
              roial 31 August 2013 17: 37 New
              -17
              And zapadentsy here from which side ??? At the helm “Donetsk” they rule. And on the brush of the movement vector and the idea of ​​separation, Russia is the leader here because political blackmail and economic sanctions against Ukrainian enterprises do not increase Russia's popularity among the general population.
              The ban on the import of Ukrainian goods mainly hit ordinary people who work at these enterprises, delayed salaries, cuts in bonuses ...
              And you think that after such a people of Ukraine will be striving for entry into the vehicle ???
              Where is the guarantee that after joining the CU Russia will cease to engage in blackmail ???
              If once rolled then the temptation to push again will be very great.
              Before my eyes there are fresh examples when Moscow demanded to immediately release the director general of Uralkali Vladislav Baumgertner from the pre-trial detention center of the KGB of Belarus and introduced customs sanctions against Minsk.
              1. rainufa
                rainufa 31 August 2013 19: 01 New
                18
                The people in Ukraine have not decided anything for a long time.
                1. FATEMOGAN
                  FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 19: 14 New
                  22
                  Quote: rainufa
                  The people in Ukraine have not decided anything for a long time.


                  What people in Ukraine do not decide? zapadentsy then achieve it, not by washing, so by skating. And if you sit exactly on the pope, it’s clear that nothing will change, although I must say that nevertheless recently in the east of Ukraine little has begun to be organized about the Russian public, and this cannot but rejoice.

                  On August 23 and 24, supporters of the NOD together with SSU and other patriotic organizations held actions dedicated to Ukraine’s dependence and destructive European integration.

                  The shares were held in Kiev, Simferopol, Donetsk, Kharkov and Chernigov.
                  1. Vell
                    Vell 1 September 2013 14: 05 New
                    -17
                    Ooh, this is power, it’s immediately obvious that a significant part of Ukraine supports these kids. In general, it’s interesting to the patriots of what state it is.
                    Some kind of flags?!?
                    1. DimychDV
                      DimychDV 2 September 2013 15: 12 New
                      +3
                      Subjectively, I am for the union of Russia and Ukraine. But to look at the ways in which my homeland convinces my fellow countrymen ancestors to this unity ... It is moral for me not to Russia - but they slammed the Kremlin with bacon over the wort. Tea, not six of which you feed - communicate with fraternal people. And it’s dishonest to speak with him in monologue and pointing mode. Maybe it’s clear that they’re just talking to each other, the politicians of the Kremlin and Khreshchatyk are talking. But after all, the second ones immediately turn all the arrows towards their people ... The Kremlin is pounding the Rada, but the Rada needs it: politicians will not get worse, they will get their people ... Well, they will blame Russia for everything. Got it, brothers-Russians? We are NOT giving gas to our brothers ...
                      1. matross
                        matross 2 September 2013 22: 39 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DimychDV
                        We are NOT giving gas to our brothers.

                        Yes, in Ukraine, the people are not dumber than ours! They understand who gives the “gases” command to us. Or does not give ...
                        But the Ukrainian brothers are sorry. Politicians pull them to Europe, and in the modern cruel world one has to rely on the strong (read - on Russia). The European Union, like any mutant, is not viable ...
                  2. 787nkx
                    787nkx 2 September 2013 14: 18 New
                    0
                    Keep it up!!!
                    Good luck to you.
                2. January
                  January 1 September 2013 02: 22 New
                  +6
                  Does not decide - and answer him. Let it decide. If you do not like it - hands to feet and to Russia for Russian citizenship
                3. SPLV
                  SPLV 1 September 2013 09: 59 New
                  +6
                  Tell me, where does it solve? In Russia, since the 1991 referendum of the year? In France, where Mr. Hollande, in spite of protest demonstrations, passed a law degrading humanity as a biological species, looking at the most powerful states - the USA and Britain? Maybe in Iraq or Libya?
                  1. zennon
                    zennon 1 September 2013 10: 19 New
                    +2
                    In France, where Mr. Hollande, in spite of protest demonstrations, enacted a law degrading humanity as a species

                    On 12 February 2013, the French National Assembly (lower house of parliament) passed the Marriage for All bill in first reading with 329 votes to 229. The French Senate (upper house of the French parliament) approved on April 9, 2013 the most important part of it - the first article , directly securing the right of same-sex couples to enter into a marriage. 179 senators voted for this article, 157 voted against. So, everything is in order with democracy in France. And do not forget that Oland went to the polls with a promise to pass this law.AND WINS.
                4. gispanec
                  gispanec 1 September 2013 12: 33 New
                  10
                  Quote: rainufa
                  The people in Ukraine have not solved anything for a long time

                  But in Russia? .... it’s just a question, without a poddevka .... well, or maybe the people decide on the Britons ?? ... well, or on the Jews ?? ... the people are not where, does not solve anything .... .or decides through the revolution .... and the elections .... invented for fooling ...
                  1. ksan
                    ksan 1 September 2013 12: 50 New
                    0
                    gispanec (2) RU Today, 12:33 PM ↑ New

                    Quote: rainufa
                    The people in Ukraine have not solved anything for a long time

                    But in Russia? .... it’s just a question, without a poddevka .... well, or maybe the people decide on the Britons ?? ... well, or on the Jews ?? ... the people are not where, does not solve anything .... .or decides through the revolution .... and the elections .... invented for fooling ...
                    Why for fooling? YOU choose people who should and your wishes and orders. Another thing is that THESE chosen ones deceive their voters and steal OUR common money. But THESE "chosen ones" and thieves WE CHOOSE. fellow
                    1. revnagan
                      revnagan 1 September 2013 18: 02 New
                      0
                      Quote: ksan
                      Why for fooling? YOU choose people

                      Yeah, like in the joke "Mumba Yumba or Death?" laughing The widest choice fellow
                  2. juneart
                    juneart 1 September 2013 15: 38 New
                    +2
                    Well, it’s rightly said now: With DEMOCRACY they “rule” DEMOCRATES !!! I would add that the people at democracy have nothing to do with democracy !!!
                    1. shasherin_pavel
                      shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 16: 30 New
                      0
                      I completely agree that the word “Democracy” lacks the letter “H”, Demo-krat, where the abbreviation is “Multiplicity.” And I want to say that only riot can be popular, and that’s why it says, “Russian riot, terrible and meaningless, "because no one steers here, but the scum enjoys the revolution. The revolution in Egypt was ruled by the" Muslim brothers ", and now they have been declared illegal. But Revol ... do you think this word is Revolution? no, it's not the word "Revolver", which is controlled by the owning Revol ... (end this word) (Revolver controls the revolution).
                  3. bddrus
                    bddrus 1 September 2013 18: 50 New
                    +1
                    through revolution only solvers change
                  4. Semen Semyonitch
                    Semen Semyonitch 2 September 2013 06: 15 New
                    0
                    Quote: gispanec
                    Quote: rainufa
                    The people in Ukraine have not solved anything for a long time

                    But in Russia? .... it’s just a question, without a poddevka .... well, or maybe the people decide on the Britons ?? ... well, or on the Jews ?? ... the people are not where, does not solve anything .... .or decides through the revolution .... and the elections .... invented for fooling ...

                    The people there think that they are deciding. And the whole powerful system of propaganda and fooling is deciding. Ours is up to them, like to China on all fours ...
                5. Vell
                  Vell 1 September 2013 13: 59 New
                  -6
                  Another thing in Russia ... decided ...)
                6. sergaivenski
                  sergaivenski 1 September 2013 19: 57 New
                  +5
                  Good evening, Dear Forumites !!! The ruling elites in Russia and Ukraine have long been speaking different languages, that is, as deaf and blind. Instead of specifically sitting at the table and negotiating, everyone pulls the torn blanket of the former USSR upon itself. inherited from the USSR. And there are also areas "adjoined" to the USSR before the Great Patriotic War. It is well known that in these areas there is a strong (!) influence of the Vatican, as well as US intelligence, Poland, and Hungary. Products made in Ukraine and in Belarus, in the West is not needed. There markets have long been divided. And the Kremlin can not understand this.
                  1. Semen Semyonitch
                    Semen Semyonitch 2 September 2013 06: 24 New
                    +1
                    ... in Ukraine ... it hurts the ear. They always said-ON, and nothing, no one ever bothered. And now, it seems, in spite of the damned Mos-lam, if only differently. Everyone is free to say how convenient it is for him ...
                    1. DimychDV
                      DimychDV 2 September 2013 15: 20 New
                      0
                      Yeah. They say, after all - in France, and not in France ... Or, for example, in the Donbass region. And I have such a "supporting example" - in-in! They always said - in the Primorsky Territory. In the Yaroslavl region. So do we also have our own states, see? .. And, Ukrainian linguistic brothers?
                      1. shasherin_pavel
                        shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 16: 38 New
                        0
                        But after all, according to Russian grammar, you can not say "I went to the outskirts." or "I live in the outskirts," because "I live on the edge of the city." But we agree with such "blackmail" from the Outskirts and issue a resolution at the government level: "Speak now" Give a ticket to Ukraine ".
                        "Tell me Okraina isn’t that rye, Taras Shevchenko’s father’s hat?" UKRAINE ancient pronunciation.
              2. FATEMOGAN
                FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 19: 55 New
                21
                Quote: roial
                And zapadentsy here from which side ??? At the helm “Donetsk” they rule.


                In my understanding, a zapadenets is not a region of birth, but a way of thinking.
                1. zub46
                  zub46 31 August 2013 23: 07 New
                  +7
                  Rather, just a profession.
                2. Corneli
                  Corneli 31 August 2013 23: 48 New
                  16
                  Quote: FATEMOGAN
                  In my understanding, a zapadenets is not a region of birth, but a way of thinking.

                  Zapadentsy (ordinary residents) are for the most part frightened and misinformed people. Most are still confident that in the event of an alliance with Russia, they will immediately begin to put them in camps and shoot the KGB (and this is not a joke). When the yanyk won there was real panic, they began to hide almost in the cellars (also not quite a joke). To convince them of the friendliness of Russia is simply not realistic! This is how to convince a small child that the bogeyman (who scared him all the time) is actually a kind and sweet grandfather. I find it difficult to understand who and how they completely brainwashed (maybe the Poles, there is a regular connection).
                  Accordingly, their "leaders" (like Freedom / tyagnibok) play precisely on these fears and their whole ideology dances from them. Yanukovych (PR) - ordinary centrist oligarchs, they have no phobias, they have only business interests. And to compare them (it’s supposedly the same thing) is like comparing Putin with Novodvorskaya.
                  1. zennon
                    zennon 1 September 2013 00: 24 New
                    +5
                    Most are still confident that in the event of an alliance with Russia, they will immediately begin to put them in camps and shoot the KGB (and this is not a joke).

                    Do not you exaggerate? It is difficult to imagine something like that. It is clear the desire to hit the members of the forum, but still ... what
                    1. Corneli
                      Corneli 1 September 2013 00: 42 New
                      20
                      Quote: zennon
                      Do not you exaggerate? It is difficult to imagine something like that. It is clear the desire to hit the members of the forum, but still ... what

                      Stepfather, from Lviv region My sister (his daughter) in 2010 was married to a local (in terms of compatriot stepfather). I came to visit them (we all live in Kiev), just who the president announced ... MORE THAT BEGINS THERE !!! (besides brother-in-law, there were also like a stepfather’s sister living in the west) I’ve won calls home, in the style of Yanukovych ", hide everything, you have to run to Poland ... and so on. I heard it myself) ... I tried to ask what the hell out of bad, I heard the topic of the KGB and concentration camps. Squealed, tried to convince them ... senseless. The hysteria lasted several days ... with endless calls to Lviv. This is about Yanyka.)
                      And as for the attitude to Russia and the USSR, so my stepfather has been married to my mother for more than 30 years ... I have been in his area more than once, visiting ... I heard enough ...
                      So everything as I described, at least recently it was so ... Although I understand it looks funny and wild (you were not there, I myself watched it)
                      1. FATEMOGAN
                        FATEMOGAN 1 September 2013 01: 01 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Corneli
                        So everything as I described, at least recently it was so ... Although I understand it looks funny and wild (you were not there, I myself watched it)


                        They have been under the Poles for too long, a couple of centuries, then under the Prussians, they have only been with Russia for 50 years, there is too little time to rub. Well, a week or two passed after the victory of Yanukovych, because the relatives realized that everything was normal and inappropriately going to Poland ?! Just after the signing of the WTA with the EU, Russia will be forced to terminate the free trade zone with Ukraine, respectively, there will be a total check at the borders with the payment of duties as at the border with the EU. And since this, plus the introduction of new European standards, will hit the east a lot, the west will be subsidized and it will not be sweet there. Really there people do not seek to learn an alternative point of view and listen only Tyagnibok.
                      2. shasherin_pavel
                        shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 16: 51 New
                        0
                        And not only in the Lviv region, the same thing comes to the Chernihiv region, though not so pronounced, but very similar, and there were more Russians than Ukrainians there.
                    2. Corneli
                      Corneli 1 September 2013 15: 16 New
                      +8
                      Quote: zennon
                      Do not you exaggerate? It is difficult to imagine something like that. It is clear the desire to hit the members of the forum, but still ... what

                      It is annoying, insulting, he wrote "disgusting" (truth) about the mentality and misconceptions of zapadentsev ... heaps of pluses (And when I write (without tantrums and moderately adequate) about the misconceptions of Russians (or just stand up, I answer an inadequate negative towards my country) only minus and rudeness (often () ... even without answers (
                      To be honest, like even breaking off cheto to write, after this (all that is necessary (judging by the likes, in similar articles) is to “shit” the Ukrainians ... They won’t understand otherwise, they really don’t need anyone, they’re not welcome from the outside ((( (
                      1. maxvet
                        maxvet 1 September 2013 15: 42 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Corneli
                        It is annoying, insulting, he wrote "disgusting" (truth) about the mentality and misconceptions of zapadentsev ... heaps of pluses (And when I write (without tantrums and moderately adequate) about the misconceptions of Russians (or just stand up, I answer an inadequate negative towards my country) only minus and rudeness (often () ... even without answers (
                        To be honest, like even breaking off cheto to write, after this (all that is necessary (judging by the likes, in similar articles) is to “shit” the Ukrainians ... They won’t understand otherwise, they really don’t need anyone, they’re not welcome from the outside ((( (

                        Corneli puts the pros and cons not for your honest opinion, but for the justification / not justification of expectations, i.e. more often on emotions (this applies to political articles, not technical ones)
                      2. Corneli
                        Corneli 1 September 2013 15: 50 New
                        +4
                        Quote: maxvet
                        Corneli puts the pros and cons not for your honest opinion, but for the justification / not justification of expectations, i.e. more often on emotions (this applies to political articles, not technical ones)

                        Yes, it’s kind of understandable, if I start the current, just write on “emotions” ... cranes are provided for me for a couple of articles) (I’m a Ukrainian enemy) And it doesn’t matter if it's true or not! This is upsetting (I do not hang out in ordinary forums (pop press, I just read), there are by default a bunch of trolls and deviants, who we think ... are here! Here, like adults, most of them were born and lived under the USSR, respectively, and I expect (by default) adequacy, adult comprehension (discussion) of facts, hypotheses, opinions ... rather than banal hysteria and lurking slogans (
                        P.S. read my comments in this thread, try the "inadequacy of 2 to find there and take a look at the likes ... the result depresses me (
                      3. maxvet
                        maxvet 1 September 2013 16: 28 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Corneli
                        (I'm Ukrainian enemy

                        it’s not that the Ukrainian (I’m also Ukrainian, originally from the village of Lugansk near Lugansk, there now my brother lives with his family, a cousin in the Krasnodonsky district), but that you do not meet the expectations. Most people think that Ukrainians are divided into Westerners and Easterners -the first against Russia, the latter are definitely for (and really want to unite with Russia), and if the opinion does not fit into this scheme then the “minus”. And this is not only on this site, this opinion is very common among my friends who have no relatives in Ukraine (i.e. no first-hand info)
                        By the way, my brothers are not eager to unite (into one state), for this I expect a minus
                      4. shasherin_pavel
                        shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 17: 26 New
                        +1
                        Not a minus but a plus, because I saw the same thing on vacation. None of the Ukrainians want to unite, and even a Ukrainian officer once said: “Yes, Sevastopol is a city of Russian military glory,” but this is a Ukrainian city. “What nonsense! The Ukrainian city is a city of Russian military glory, and where was Ukraine then? Where was Ukraine? when the Russians fought in the Crimean Tatars and with the Turks gaining access to the Black Sea. What did Ukraine build in Sevastopol if it is a city of Russian military glory? It sounds like "This is Russian gas, but this is our gas! Pay for what?".
                3. cherkas.oe
                  cherkas.oe 1 September 2013 16: 08 New
                  +8
                  Quote: Corneli
                  To be honest, like even breaking off cheto to write, after this (all that is necessary (judging by the likes, in similar articles) is to “shit” the Ukrainians ... They won’t understand otherwise, they really don’t need anyone, they’re not welcome from the outside ((( (

                  In vain do you think so, the namesake and fellow tribesman, I’m an ethnic Ukrainian, a lot of relatives in Ukraine, brothers, sisters, their children and grandchildren are all there, my mother’s aunt is a brother and a family in the Crimea, everything that happens in Ukraine just breaks the heart in shreds, of course, the Russians see everything that’s happening differently, it’s clear, but the majority of sane people understand everything correctly and if there is any negative, it is from despair that the fraternal people are not fighting for survival together with Russia, but with the efforts of their rulers, they go further and further to the other side of the barricade. hi
                4. Corneli
                  Corneli 1 September 2013 18: 25 New
                  +5
                  Quote: cherkas.oe
                  You think so, my namesake and fellow tribesman, I’m an ethnic Ukrainian, a lot of relatives in Ukraine, brothers, sisters, their children and grandchildren are all there, my mom’s aunt is a brother and a family in the Crimea, everything that happens in Ukraine just breaks the heart in shreds, of course, the Russians see everything that’s happening differently, it’s clear, but the majority of sane people understand everything correctly and if there is any negative, it is from despair that the fraternal people are not fighting for survival together with Russia, but with the efforts of their rulers, they go further and further to the other side of the barricade. hi

                  Such thoughts began to get into my head after reading 2 passages "in this forum ... There seems to be no children sitting here, and if the" marshals "and other" high ranks "begin to drive" empty "like a carbon copy ... This leads to certain thoughts, negative ... (
                  And so, yes, I agree with you, with respect! hi
                5. Semen Semyonitch
                  Semen Semyonitch 2 September 2013 06: 38 New
                  0
                  Less attention to high ranks. Ranks are earned in different ways. For approximately the same sense, saying one is +50, the other + 4. Even if he expressed this thought forward)))
                6. shasherin_pavel
                  shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 17: 31 New
                  0
                  Get out of the sea (Ukrainian truth) is floating. Everyone is wrong, my truth is beyond any other opinion! For what only cons put !?
            2. shasherin_pavel
              shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 17: 14 New
              0
              As for "Crap," so it’s to your television, during the holidays I understood a lot after seeing what was shown in Ukraine. We stink of this for a long time, but in your understanding it’s the same (true) from TV. But I can compare what they say in Russia about Ukraine and what they show on Ukrainian TV in Russia. When Putin won the first election, on your TV in the News of the Russian Channel 1, Ukrainian broadcasters said that they handed out vodka for free at election centers in Moscow and showed footage from a documentary on drunkenness in Russia that was broadcast on our TV for four days before my departure to Ukraine. So it turned out that on the Russian Channel 1, but only Ukrainian broadcasters in Russian showed that Putin had watered all of Moscow to win the election. And my father-in-law says to me: "Yes, you are all drunkards there." This is your (truth) which the Russians take offense and like the poor Ukrainian. So a Jew was offended by me alone that I criticized their Merkava tank (chariot) and even wrote a personal letter to me with accusations of chauvinism. So read the latest Merkava news. So you, you think that your opinion is true, and the minuses put from a small mind. I am not a supporter of Putin, I see the flaws of the DemoNkratov policy, which have $ 666$ on their foreheads and not XNUMX. But it’s your government that’s buggy and says the “truth” (disgusting) about the mentality of Russians, and not we “blackmail”. If you like, then you need to think, why, if you say "Ukrainian truth" at the Russian forum.
          2. DimychDV
            DimychDV 2 September 2013 15: 42 New
            +1
            I’ve read several quite Soviet books about the exploits of the Chekists in the land of the post-war Galicia ... So if the descendants or successors of those “semiconductors” -nationalists have been hovering the brains of the youth of Western Ukraine for those repressions for 22 years, it is not surprising. They just forget that after the war the nationalists implemented the principle of “beat their own, so that strangers were afraid” much more consistently than the KGB. The communes did not need scorched earth. And "his patriots" even suited such an option: "Better be you dead than red"
        2. Dovmont
          Dovmont 1 September 2013 09: 15 New
          +6
          Zapadentsev are terribly afraid of Russia !! Won cho! And the fact that their Poles bent over their ears for 400 years, and then the Hungarians and Austrians did the same for another 150 years !? This zapadentsev does not scare !! ??? Have you forgotten something?
          1. revnagan
            revnagan 1 September 2013 18: 06 New
            +2
            Quote: Dovmont
            And the fact that their Poles bent over their ears for 400 years, and then the Hungarians and Austrians did the same for another 150 years !?

            No, for co-religionists it’s not a bit of a mess ...
          2. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 17: 39 New
            0
            "If you get hit in the eye, you will certainly cry out ... and then get used to it!" Homosexuality is sometimes a disease of conscience, and sometimes a force of habit: "Eh, once ... again, and then get used to it!" Putting a person from his knees to his feet (after 400 years) can be very frightening from an unusual posture. But the trouble is that I look at the map above and don’t understand where this Outskirts of Little Russia came from, how could Taras Bulba, such a son, give birth?
        3. NOBODY EXCEPT US
          NOBODY EXCEPT US 1 September 2013 22: 31 New
          0

          Zapadentsy (ordinary residents) are for the most part frightened and misinformed people. Most are still confident that in the event of an alliance with Russia, they will immediately begin to put them in camps and shoot the KGB (and this is not a joke). ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, In principle, they are not far from the truth, look at you the opposition is real, but we have the real whole on quiche ... .
        4. DimychDV
          DimychDV 2 September 2013 15: 31 New
          0
          Here we are also convinced that currents are talking to Russian wuyks after a volley in the belly of a sawn-off shotgun. At the turn of perestroika, my uncle, the foreman of ship repair, visited Truskavets. He returned shocked: almost the head physician of the sanatorium killed someone there FOR RELIGIOUS SOIL ... He is an intelligent man, in the Soviet Union, in the XNUMXth century! ..
          A familiar woman - a beauty, a clever woman - after a divorce in a civilized Lviv, she does not even hope to ever get married again. Public opinion completely excludes this possibility for her. ... No, such patriarchalism is not always evil, for example, they have beaten it out of us for a long time - but in vain, because the peasant was extinct from the Russian soul. But such persistence of traditions is peculiar to mountain and religious communities. Well, the influence of Rome and the Austrians, too, can not get anywhere ...
        5. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 16: 48 New
          +1
          Probably with a fright in Lviv, at the box office, a woman was beaten up because she asked for a “ticket to Russia” in Russian, this was told to me by my wife’s sister, who studies at the Lviv Institute.
      2. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 16: 43 New
        0
        The West is a diagnosis from a doctor, as it is sunken down on the head, or after "FALLING".
    2. rolik
      rolik 1 September 2013 02: 01 New
      13
      Quote: roial
      because political blackmail and economic sanctions against Ukrainian enterprises

      This is not political blackmail. Political blackmail is when from Ukraine, for any reason, dances with tambourines begin around the Black Sea base of our fleet, when they start talking about blocking the gas pipe to Europe.
      And the fact that we do not want to allow ourselves to earn particularly cunning neighbors, is this called political blackmail? Look, go bargain with Israel, who will whom ..... t (will deceive).
    3. Dovmont
      Dovmont 1 September 2013 08: 52 New
      +7
      In your opinion, is Russia bad, forcing Ukraine to play fair? Is the EU good? Will he open his arms to Ukraine? Do not be so naive - look what happened to the economies of the Baltic trifles, and other Euro-dwarfs! The West will not raise the economy of Ukraine - its purpose is clear - by all means prevent the unification of Ukraine and Russia. Ordinary Ukrainians from this association would benefit more than they would lose!
    4. My doctor
      My doctor 1 September 2013 10: 17 New
      -7
      Quote: roial
      And you think that after such a people of Ukraine will be striving for entry into the vehicle ???
      Where is the guarantee that after joining the CU Russia will cease to engage in blackmail ???

      And look at the tone in which they (the Russian Federation) are talking with Belarus for not allowing them to overthrow the Belarusian Potash Company.
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 10: 46 New
        +8
        My doctor
        here it must be understood that the interests of moneybags are rarely similar to the interests of the country and people.
        Potassium in Russia was seized by a certain Rybolovlev in the wild 90, for nothing, after, ceded (if you call it that) to Karimov for 10 billion bucks, according to current laws, it’s kind of like a bona fide transaction (Kerimov did not “know” that he had bought the stolen goods created by the generation Soviet people).
        Now, the so-called legitimization of “goodness” has taken place and the Karimov base, supposedly in its “interests”, has been taken care of Russia and its people, although according to the opinions of people where those potassium in Russia are, things are there at the seams.
        It’s clear to Belarus that Potassium is like oil to Russia, and it would be strange that Belarus would foolishly give it up, don’t understand who and why.
        The nouveaux riches are forced to cast out, pretending to be selfish for allegedly caring for the people, here in my opinion everything is clear ..
      2. skeptic
        skeptic 1 September 2013 16: 16 New
        +4
        Quote: MyVrach
        And you look in what tone they (the Russian Federation) are talking with Belarus for not allowing them to bankrupt the Belarusian Potash Company.


        You can rest assured that our thieves are not happy with us either, and the fact that the Bash Old Man crushes them does not cause other emotions besides solidarity. All republics of the former USSR are affected by the bacilli of corruption, unfortunately. Belarus to a lesser extent.
    5. valerei
      valerei 1 September 2013 12: 33 New
      0
      roial, I agree with your comment in many ways. In Ukraine and in Russia, politics often diverges from the interests of ordinary citizens. And what about the opinion of the people of Ukraine, no one is going to ask him, as, indeed, in Russia. All the "dialogues" between the peoples of Ukraine and Russia and the authorities are largely fiction. So, if Yanukovych decided to lie down and put Ukraine under Brussels, then he will do it. In the recent history of our states there are a lot of examples when the interests of the population were in last place. And on the first - the preservation of their power and the uncontrolled robbery of the treasury of the corresponding state. And what about blackmail and pressure, then in international practice it is a common thing, which is always applied by a more powerful state to a less powerful one. Politics, however! And no need to complain. At one time, the USSR was subjected to blackmail and pressure, and Russia, and then and now regularly exposed in one form or another. And Brussels will blackmail. You won’t get anywhere from this. Personally, I consider the customs union to be extremely unprofitable for Russia and Ukraine in it is another "stone on the neck" in Russia. This is only talk that the TS is beneficial for Russia, but in fact, Russia has to constantly pay for the TS. And Ukraine says give. But for no reason even the chirium will not jump: it is necessary to scratch. But Ukraine wants to get preferences and give nothing in return. And this never happens in principle. As soon as Ukraine enters the EU, Brussels will blackmail and then it is not known whose blackmail will be steeper. And if for Russia and for us Ukraine and its people are relatives, then for the West you will not even be poor relatives, but a third-class state, and treatment with you will be appropriate. There, as they say "" the entrance is a rupe, and the exit is three. "
    6. karbofos
      karbofos 1 September 2013 15: 19 New
      +3
      roial so let ordinary people go to the Maidan and say something to the authorities and preferably with a haze they say. and blaming Russia that it somehow behaves just like hypocrisy. Russia that has no right to protect itself? They tell you 20 years old, let's live together, but you don’t have your own unique path. everyone can do the tricks of Russia, but we must be silent according to yours, but if we say something right away, tears to the whole world about imperial Russia. All of you cry for freedom. only it comes down to freedom from Russia. What kind of freedoms do you still have and which do not exist in Russia? You just don’t need about free dodging and “real” freedom of speech. you have Nazis in the form of SS walk the streets and you are not ashamed in front of the world.
    7. skeptic
      skeptic 1 September 2013 15: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: roial
      political blackmail and economic sanctions against Ukrainian enterprises do not increase Russia's popularity among the general population.


      You can recall popular sayings: "Until the thunder strikes, the man does not cross himself." How else to reach the people if they live, on the principle - "my hut from the edge" ... If you had the collapse of the USSR on the drum, and now a complete break, once fraternal peoples. And "eat fish and ... sit down" will not work. Yes! Both you and we will learn, with a sin in half, to live separately, but it’s like an engine at the Oka, like an independent half of the VAZ engine, but a goof - it’s a goof.
      For the West, the collapse of the industrially developed part of the former USSR is a very tempting goal, even after it comes to Ukraine that it has lost its economy - a return to an alliance with Russia will already be disadvantageous to Russia since will have to divert significant funds from yourself.
      We cannot go, instead of you, into your streets and demand from your government unity with Russia. But if you are silent, "To a rag," then you are satisfied with the final divorce, with the ensuing problems, both for you and for us. request
      1. Maverick78
        Maverick78 2 September 2013 15: 35 New
        +1
        Please remind me who the USSR was falling apart. I see Zapadentsev rushing to Moscow under tanks and tearing their throats for Yeltsin.
        1. Docent1984
          Docent1984 3 September 2013 14: 09 New
          +1
          You probably forget about zapadentsev, because of which those who speak Russian, and when advising on the dark streets of Lviv and Lutsk, were ordered. In general, no one takes responsibility off himself. Do you think we have a better attitude towards the collapse of the USSR, Yeltsin and the "shit"? No matter how. And for that matter, neither in the Ukrainian SSR, nor in the RSFSR 2 / 3 population did not want the collapse of the country. But since this has happened, then this is our common g *** but. Enough to drag the blanket, soon it will tear to shreds. And the West will gobble up and not frown))) It has been proved more than once)
    8. DimychDV
      DimychDV 2 September 2013 15: 03 New
      0
      In my opinion, there is simply nothing to cover here ...
    9. FREGATENKAPITAN
      FREGATENKAPITAN 2 September 2013 17: 54 New
      +1
      Well, do not dissemble ........ a blow to ordinary people? Yes ....... but ultimately the people oppose the policies of their own government ..... Moscow is far away ... Kiev there it is. and people will not come to Red Square, but to Independence Square ............... Well, blackmail ......... that blackmail is a normal way of exerting pressure in modern the world, it’s not us (the Russians) who invented it, and it’s not we in Europe who blocked the stranger, petty blackmailing ... Or how?
    10. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 15: 41 New
      +2
      It means stealing gas destined for Italy, or Germany is for the good life of the Ukrainian peasant, and burn the ass of the Russian peasant, who is then billed to cover the losses from the theft of Russian gas by Ukraine. I understand that they didn’t show on Ukrainian TV how they invited the representatives of Italy and showed that so many cubic meters of gas came out of your territory through your gas pipeline, pay. But only 50% of gas came to Italy. Poor Ukrainians did not even know that then Italy billed for these 50% who did not reach Italy, but settled in Ukraine. And no complaints from Italy ... claims from Ukraine can be made only to Russia. But after all, Ukraine is a sovereign state, separated from Russia, so what claims for non-fraternal relations, "directed against the ordinary Ukrainian." Of course, blackmail can only be from Russia. And Ukraine is only "free of charge", as the owl in Viniy Pooh said, to take away the gas that "they grabbed for themselves, I’m the Nazi face, we don’t want to recognize the fraternal division, because the gas is Soviet, it means ours." Or maybe lard in Russia Ukrainian? The ordinary government should be taken care of by the Ukrainian government, which cut pensions for pensioners who had a pension above 1000 hryvnias, cut them to that thousand.
      1. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 17: 54 New
        0
        I did not upload this comment from “I am a Nazi face, s” and wrote above that “, s” is the end of the word “Peoples”. Maybe this is not happening to me alone? I demand copyright protection! and do not insert a gag !. Why did "Delete" not work?
    11. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 16: 11 New
      0
      What the hell is going on here? Started writing text with rjial answer? I checked the spelling, I publish and I see that in the text there are words that I didn’t write "I am the Nazi face, s", where ", s" is the end of the word "Peoples". Correct, look, these words are not. Again I send and read again that "I am a Nazi face, s." I click correct again, and I cannot find the words in the text, I publish them and they are again in the same place. I had to remove everything and write this comment already. I would like to understand how this can be done and who rules me that way. I am not a Nazi, I just wanted to answer:
      Of course, only Russia can deal with political blackmail. Ukraine is only returning to itself “without remuneration”, as the owl in Winnie the Pooh said, to take away gas absolutely privately, as private property of Ukraine, because Ukraine was separated from Russia, but it did not separate gas from itself. Of course, they didn’t show in Ukrainian tv how Russia invited the representatives of Italy and showed them, so many cubes of gas came out of the territory of Russia through the gas pipeline, pay. But Italy reached only 50% of the paid gas, and 50% fraternally remained in Ukraine. But only Italy does not recognize any fraternal relations, and demanded that Ukraine return money for the shortage. And not the words of Italy's reproach that she does not live in brotherly relations, and consider such a section to be theft. I understand that this is not blackmail, "grabbing" for the benefit of a simple Ukrainian peasant, and for his own good, the Ukrainian government cut pensions that exceeded more than 1000 hryvnias to the same thousand. Or is it also Russia "blackmailing" the poor peasant of Ukraine? Yes, you even have our "News" on the 1st channel are Ukrainian TV presenters, there have never been such announcers on Russian TV, and they carry such nonsense. I explained to my son-in-law in Chernigov that if in Moscow the "News" starts at 21:00, then in Ukraine this news should be broadcast at 20:00, but not at 21:00, because this is an hour later than the Russian news. During this hour, Russian announcers are cut out from the "News" and Ukrainian ones are put on. Maybe this will explain to you why in Ukraine it was forbidden to watch a live broadcast of Channel 1 of Russia. If the phrase "I am a Nazi, s" appears again, I did not write this in my comment. Shasherin Pavel is not a Nazi.
  2. S_mirnov
    S_mirnov 31 August 2013 18: 49 New
    13
    Quote: FATEMOGAN
    I wrote that you need to ask from zapadentsev

    What other zapadentsev? It is necessary to ask those who are fraternal peoples opposing each other. From specific personalities, and not from an impersonal crowd of deceived people. And how are you going to ask them? If the government of our country is not connected with the people in any way! And if honest, principled people fall into government posts, then the system rejects them!
    Here's an example:
    "Moscow. May 24. INTERFAX.RU - Russian Consul General in Simferopol Vladimir Andreev declares that he does not agree with the statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry regarding his statements regarding the Crimean Tatars and decided to resign.

    “I remain with my opinion and every word of my opinion. And I regard the statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Russia-IF) as helpless, stupid and unprincipled, dishonoring the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. They make excuses for not speaking and, on the contrary, do not support me in those positions that you shouldn’t deviate from. And in general, those who write them and who allow them to publish should be punished for such statements, "he told Interfax-Ukraine on Friday .....
    In an interview with the Crimean television channel ATR on May 21, Andreev, speaking about why he did not recommend the test pilot Amet Khan Sultan, twice hero of the Soviet Union, to Russian pilots, students and associates, to go to the premiere of the film “Haytarma”, which tells about deportation of Crimean Tatars, said that Russia could not be represented at the premiere of the film, "distorting the truth about the Great Patriotic War."

    The Consul General also expressed his conviction that "the theme of collaboration and aiding the occupiers must be present in all events" that relate to the deportation of Crimean Tatars. To the remark of the Crimean journalist Lily Budzhurova that his statements could be offensive to the Crimean Tatar people, the diplomat said: "Have I just said something new? I don’t need your advice. All that I said is completely official. Write and scroll any Crimean Tatar. My word and the word of Russia should sound, it should be known, including my interview, so that the truth about the Great Patriotic War sounded ... This is precisely the theme of betrayal. "

    See the original material at http://www.interfax.ru/russia/txt.asp?id=308664

    See the original material at http://www.interfax.ru/russia/txt.asp?id=308664
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 1 September 2013 14: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: FATEMOGAN
    Nobody got it, I wrote that you need to ask from zapadentsev, so in reality they are now steering

    Zapadentsev also sang tales of their chosenness and exclusivity.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Tektor
    Tektor 31 August 2013 23: 37 New
    0
    "So why are you bored with Ukrainians or Belarusians?“Now it’s not about Belarusians ... Ukraine, for many years in the 90s and early 0s, sold the same energy resources at ridiculous tariffs for future integration. It reminds branding and a donkey ... Total benefits exceeded $ 50 billion, I don’t know the exact figure , maybe about 70. And now there’s such a Loch’s kid: throw off debts, which means that the bill will be presented to the EU, or war ...
  • zvereok
    zvereok 1 September 2013 00: 20 New
    +2
    Alcoholism in the center goes away, thanks Madvedev. No, they drink as before hard - holidays celebrate, etc., but in the morning there is no sale. This is one of the advantages of his reign.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 1 September 2013 16: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: zvereok
      . This is one of the advantages of his reign.

      Just "sales" drinkers wassat later began to appear on the streets (it makes no sense, you still can’t make a mess lol ) That's all the pluses. no
  • rolik
    rolik 1 September 2013 01: 54 New
    +3
    Quote: S_mirnov
    So why are you bored with Ukrainians or Belarusians?

    And whoever said something against Belarusians now ???? Please do not distort. Belarusians are fine, they know how to live on, and what to do next.
    Here the conversation about Ukraine was .... for now.
    1. My doctor
      My doctor 1 September 2013 10: 27 New
      0
      They again banned the transport of milk, they hint that they will not deliver oil at the planned level, etc.
      Say no complaints to Belarusians? There are probably more complaints now than even to Ukraine, only they don’t want to engage in mass media, or they themselves will think about what’s what and who you really are.
      1. BotaniQ
        BotaniQ 1 September 2013 16: 05 New
        +2
        As a person, I am completely and completely on the side of the Belarusians in the conflict with the BKK, but before blaming the Russian Federation, you need to understand that you are also “unholy”, since there is something to take you for and you turned a blind eye to it. And as for allied relations, I don’t see something from the BR or from Kazakhstan, the recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. How to evaluate it? The Ukrainians generally managed to fight against the Russian Federation and did not suffer punishment. What is it like? And the result of all this is not to break spears over that to which neither you nor I have anything to do. As the hero of Brad Pete said in the "robbery of the casino": "You think that we all live in society, but this is not so, there is someone's business around us. Therefore, pay me!"
        1. revnagan
          revnagan 1 September 2013 18: 23 New
          +4
          Quote: BotaniQ
          Before blaming the Russian Federation, you need to understand that you are "unholy", since there is something to take you for

          More precisely, what to take from you ... Somewhere I already heard it ... Aha!
          "It’s your fault
          what I want to eat! ". Well, everything fell into place. And about the TS and the accession of Ukraine: our oligarchs understand that after joining their business it will be like with Belarusian potassium. That is, Russian business will make them an offer which it will be impossible to refuse. Simple people also do not quite understand why they should exchange Akhmetov for Abramovich. What this will give is the replacement of their barchuk with newcomers. Until here, in Ukraine, ordinary people will not see that people live in Russia justice, until Russia by personal example proves that ordinary people live better, money bags do not rule, until conversations about joining will remain talk. As in 17 Russia should start first, then, seeing that justice is true on the side of Russia, the former peoples of the empire will also follow it
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 1 September 2013 19: 32 New
            -1
            Quote: revnagan
            Until here, in Ukraine, ordinary people will see that people in Russia live fairly, until Russia by personal example proves that ordinary people live better, not money bags rule the ball, until conversations about joining will remain talk.

            And where is it interesting such a joyful picture? Maybe in the EU? Just the common people benefit from the union, but alas, the oligarchs do not.
            Quote: revnagan
            As in 17, Russia should start first, then, having seen that justice and truth are on the side of Russia, the former peoples of the empire will follow it

            Yes, how much can you start? Twenty years have passed, and "things are still there." Justice and truth are already on the side of Russia, and the "former peoples of the empire" reach for "thirty pieces of silver" to Uncle Sam.
            1. revnagan
              revnagan 1 September 2013 21: 44 New
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              And where is it interesting such a joyful picture? Maybe in the EU?

              But in today's Russia there is no such a rosy picture for sure. And in the EU, I didn’t say anything like that.
              Quote: Setrac
              Just the common people benefit from the union, but alas, the oligarchs do not.

              But now the question is about unification in the presence of oligarchs, isn’t it? So I described how ordinary people see the situation on the ground. If your state oligakhs disappear as a species, (well, there they will fly to the moon, go to Solovki) .. .yes our people will sweep away all who try to prevent the unification. And so change the awl for soap ...
              Quote: Setrac
              Justice and truth and so on the side of Russia

              I don’t argue, only in Russia itself I have strained it. Like, however, in all the republics of the former USSR that are “fortunate” with capitalism.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 2 September 2013 17: 03 New
                0
                Quote: revnagan
                But in today's Russia there is no such a rosy picture for sure. And in the EU, I didn’t say anything like that.

                It may not be a rosy picture in Russia, but in other countries the picture is much less "rosy". Does Russia not correspond to your "rainbow" ideas? So maybe it’s not in Russia, but in you, in your expectations?
                Quote: revnagan
                I don’t argue, only in Russia itself I strained it.

                I have never come across this same "strain" with justice.
    2. S_mirnov
      S_mirnov 1 September 2013 13: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: rolik
      And whoever said anything against Belarusians now?

      Now there is, but the theme of Belarusians who do not want to merge with the Russian Federation, periodically sounds.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 1 September 2013 15: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: S_mirnov
        Now there is, but the theme of Belarusians who do not want to merge with the Russian Federation, periodically sounds.

        It makes no sense for them to cherish their economy.
      2. maxvet
        maxvet 1 September 2013 15: 50 New
        0
        Quote: S_mirnov
        Now there is, but the theme of Belarusians who do not want to merge with the Russian Federation, periodically sounds.

        If I’m not mistaken, then, among other things, there is a Russia-Belarus union state, and this can all be considered as a dispute between business entities between regions in the Russian Federation as well)
      3. Setrac
        Setrac 1 September 2013 19: 44 New
        0
        Quote: S_mirnov
        Now there is, but the theme of Belarusians who do not want to merge with the Russian Federation, periodically sounds.

        It sounds in the Western media. Next to the topic of chemical weapons in Syria. How is it that they did not find nuclear weapons in Iraq? Let them look in Israel.
  • January
    January 1 September 2013 02: 20 New
    15
    Hey, Ukrainians screeched for 20 years that Russia was being fed, and such breadwinners already got it. Separated - and the tablecloth is dear, along with Mikola, who plows, and after work, goes and votes for Freedom and for the "European choice", and calls the years in the USSR occupation
  • Ustas
    Ustas 1 September 2013 07: 38 New
    +5
    Quote: S_mirnov
    which UKRAINIANS are you going to ask? With some kind of Mikola who plows like a horse and pays interest on a loan, or with whom?

    Let each Mikola in Ukraine decide for himself with whom he is with Russia or the West with all the consequences ... And then even the same Mikola let him harshly ask his authorities.
  • vladkavkaz
    vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 10: 36 New
    +6
    S_mirnov (3
    “You look at Russia from the perspective of corruption, alcoholism, drug addiction, corrupt judges, overcrowded prisons, Chubbays, Putin, Navalny, Zhirinovsky, Zyuganov, oligarchs with offshore companies! Do you yourself not unite with all this?” -Interesting, but for what demon to the heap all equalized?
    Well, quasi-patriotism is understandable - everything is bad.
    But one thing is not understood either, Chubais and Navalny, a bunch of liberals on the one hand, the main steam locomotive whistle ever blowing everything that comes to mind, but strictly in the interests of ER Zhirinovsky on the other. And right there it seems like the same as these Zyuganov and the Communist Party ??
    Well, the oligarchs with offshore, everything is clear, where are these, there is Chubais and Kodla, Zhirik is not far from them, but what does the Communist Party have to do with it?
    So, unpretentiously and insinuatingly, poison pours into the souls of people, you actually here for whose interests you worry?
    Judging by your match, you have all the political forces, in one heap, so who is yours, for whom you worry so much?
    Only one "political force" comes to mind, the so-called national democracies, they reason in the same way, only the price of their reasoning, in general the collapse of the country, what kind of unification ...
    1. zennon
      zennon 1 September 2013 10: 44 New
      -2
      Bulk-bunch of liberals

      And what do you know about Navalny?
      1. karbofos
        karbofos 1 September 2013 15: 26 New
        +1
        And what do you know about Navalny? ”“ HE is a thief !!! ”
        1. zennon
          zennon 1 September 2013 15: 59 New
          -3
          HE is the same thief !!!

          Lies! Navalny didn’t steal a penny! In a nutshell: Navalny was never accused of embezzlement! Director of the Kirovles State Unitary Enterprise, Vyacheslav Opalev, stated that Navalny had persuaded him to conclude an unprofitable contract. money. Several experts said that no, in those conditions it’s impossible! The case was dismissed on April 10, 2012 due to the lack of corpus delicti. But in July 2012 it was resumed. The case is not worth an egg. Bulk uncomfortable. He criticizes sharply " United Russia "for corruption. He founded RosPil, dedicated to combating abuses in public procurement. In 2004 he founded and was one of the leaders of the" Committee for the Protection of Muscovites "- a city-wide movement against corruption and violation of citizens' rights in the construction in Moscow. a lot of evidence about corruption. Well, who will like it? Of course they try to remove it. In addition, he is known for his extreme rejection of illegal migrants. nations from Central Asia and harsh statements against the behavior of Caucasians. He calls himself "a normal Russian nationalist."
          It must be admitted that migrants, including those from the Caucasus, often go to Russia with their very peculiar values. Russians overcame this level of prejudice even in the time of Yaroslav the Wise. For example, in Chechnya, women who go without headscarves are shot from a paintball gun, and then Ramzan Kadyrov says: “Well done guys, real sons of the Chechen people!” Then these Chechens come to Moscow. And I have a wife and a daughter here. And I don’t like it when people who say that women need to be shot from a paintball gun because they go without kerchiefs set their own rules here.

          So he didn’t steal anything. He published all the materials of the case on Twitter so that everyone could familiarize himself. But here you are, before presenting, at least familiarize yourself!
          1. karbofos
            karbofos 1 September 2013 20: 54 New
            +1
            Hamsters attack belay
      2. S-200
        S-200 1 September 2013 15: 37 New
        +5
        Quote: zennon
        And what do you know about Navalny?

        Navalny is a young State Department political prostitute ...
        I’ve heard enough of their rhetoric since the days of Hunchback and EBN ...
        State Department artists on our national political scene are changing,
        and the cliches of their performances are the same!
      3. BotaniQ
        BotaniQ 1 September 2013 16: 07 New
        +2
        Quote: zennon
        And what do you know about Navalny?

        In my opinion, a banal thief and provocateur. I think so!
        1. zennon
          zennon 1 September 2013 16: 27 New
          -1
          In my opinion, a banal thief and provocateur. I think so!

          It’s useless ... Let’s put it on the shelves. What the authorities want to do with you! You are a typical propaganda product. Do you even understand that the fierce barking of pro-Kremlin mongrels is caused by not wanting to lose huge profits from corruption! I feel, in vain I explain it all ...
          1. BotaniQ
            BotaniQ 1 September 2013 17: 23 New
            +4
            Well, of course, I’m the main Kremlin corruptionist! it’s really in vain you explain to me .. I have my own opinion about people based on their actions in life, his connections and statements, and not like you, on your personal sympathies or fashionable sympathies of your party. In short, I am an inveterate internationalist with moderate left-wing outlooks on life, an authoritative politician for me, Stalin IV, an “effective manager” Beria L.P. I am a supporter of the nationalization of industry, banks and a planned economy. In private hands, I admit the service sector and small trading enterprises, with strict regulated pricing policies in this area and the social obligations of these enterprises. The interests of the collective, the Country, I put above the interests of the individual. Do you think that with such views you can vote for Navalny, Putin, etc.?
            1. zennon
              zennon 1 September 2013 17: 45 New
              0
              Do you think that with such views you can vote for Navalny, Putin, etc.?

              Vote for whoever you want, should I ask a question? I just ask you not to brand the person who incriminates embezzlers.
              PSIn the "party" I do not participate.
              1. BotaniQ
                BotaniQ 1 September 2013 20: 06 New
                +1
                zennon no offense. he can expose anyone as much as he wants, it won’t make him a strong business executive, and the environment “smells like”, and you think, when he comes to power, we will immediately heal like in the kingdom of heaven? This environment will roll out the bill to him and he will pay it, though not by himself, but we will pay it under his strict guidance. Well, he will profit, which is already there. For him, all this is his personal business, RosPil, elections and other PR are his means of production and along the way a way to avoid responsibility, because we have selective justice. And you sincerely participate in all this.
              2. zennon
                zennon 1 September 2013 20: 27 New
                0
                and you think, when he comes to power, we will immediately heal as in the kingdom of heaven?

                I’m not naive and don’t participate in anything. I’m just trying to figure it out. It wouldn’t hurt you either. President’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov said that Alexey Navalny should admit his guilt and then he could be pardoned. Okay? Navalny refused. .Worthy of respect. You can treat it as you like, but he is not an opportunist or a thief.
  • ksan
    ksan 1 September 2013 12: 36 New
    +2
    You look at Russia from the perspective of corruption, alcoholism, drug addiction, corrupt judges, crowded prisons, Chubbais, Putin, Navalny, Zhirinovsky, Zyuganov, oligarchs with offshore! Do you yourself then unite with all this?
    So why are you bored with Ukrainians or Belarusians?
    S-Mirnov, as always, in his repertoire “Russia is garbage,” “Down with everyone,” “Call is calling for barricades,” some revolutionary slogans and nothing constructive. Yes, and who got into the hands of Ukrainians and Belarusians ?? Moreover, the people of Ukraine do not make a decision in the FTA.
  • Moon
    Moon 1 September 2013 18: 53 New
    +1
    If not difficult, name the country where all of the above is missing. Perhaps only in paradise.
  • geo185
    geo185 1 September 2013 19: 28 New
    0
    you do not use smirnov
  • dark_65
    dark_65 1 September 2013 22: 13 New
    0
    We looked ... and what? Something new? Everything is like everywhere-in the formation of the soup before the soup, or the scum of soup is inevitable.
  • Hug
    Hug 1 September 2013 23: 29 New
    -1
    So the sober man has finally been found!

    And you read the bulk of the comments, the conclusion is as follows:

    - either trolls
    - or complete idiots
    - or those who are satisfied with everything in Russia

    You’re sorry for this harshness, colleagues on the forum, I'm sorry, but it’s sometimes useful to include brains. The state leadership is sawing budgets, kickbacks reach 50%, corruption, lawlessness of officials and the Ministry of Internal Affairs (also officials), decisions issued as state pride: Olympics, Universiades, etc. due to cutting social. programs, broad gestures in the form of financing the participation of "Chinese comrades" in MAKS at the expense of the citizens of the country, complete fooling of the population (it is easier to manage biomass) - is this beautiful? Does it suit you? To list further? And the fact that in Ukraine, too, are not fools and they all notice and recall the trade wars and gas blackmail - this is not a banana republic! After all, an industrially and scientifically developed country, and someday (and, it seems, soon) will get on its feet. Is such a shortsighted foreign policy?

    I foresee a flurry of dirt in my address and “backing tracks,” but I think so, and I’m sure that I’m not the only one.
    However, those who have brains, so he sees and understands all this, but for the rest, it is useless to prove anything.
  • 2vladim2
    2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 41 New
    +6
    We have not yet exhausted all the possibilities to influence Ukraine. The country has got lost. So we must show it the way out. And Crimea? Our authorities are unlikely to do this. Although theoretically, the return of the Crimea is possible.
    1. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 31 August 2013 21: 19 New
      +7
      Of course not exhausted - pipes, cheese, engineering, engines, sweets, etc. etc...
      We launch weapons of mass destruction - on Onishchenko :)
    2. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka 31 August 2013 23: 24 New
      +6
      Quote: 2vladim2
      The country got lost.

      You didn’t ask yourself a question, but did Russia get lost? Or is everything good in Russia?
      The whole trouble is that Russia, Ukraine, and so on, these countries are not for people, but for the "boys" and it does not matter in the form they are, or in raspberry jackets. And all that rhetoric that is hung on the ears, from the principle: "Divide and rule"
      1. January
        January 1 September 2013 02: 27 New
        +8
        Much better than in Ukraine 100%. She didn’t even trade her cannon fodder like Ukraine, sending a soldier for slaughter to Iraq for handouts from the lordly table
        1. SPLV
          SPLV 1 September 2013 10: 24 New
          -2
          In order to express our opinions, we must first look at the subject of the dispute with our own eyes, go there, and not how Paganel to study geography from an office in Paris. No need to talk about what you don’t know. I myself lived there until the 1991 year, I often go there. And now I know people who, having lived for several years in Russia, want to go to Ukraine, because they like it there more. And it’s not about Westerners, but about Donetsk, Sumy, Chernihiv, and about people who don’t even know the Ukrainian language.
          And they send to death everything and always.
          1. smile
            smile 1 September 2013 13: 21 New
            +3
            SPLV
            Well, yes, yes .... That is why even in the Kaliningrad region it is full of Ukrainian migrant workers ... the Ukrainian government is following the beaten path of Tajikistan and Lithuania — the survival of the population due to migrant workers .... Do you think they really want to see their families for a couple of months in a year? .... damn they bring their people to the pen, and then again we are to blame ...
            I personally know some of the guys from under Lviv .... for all their "national pride" they do not hide that they have more than just ... a fox priest! And in the economy, and in politics, and in corruption, and with law enforcement agencies, the situation is many times worse than ours ..... and my relatives live in Fastov and Lubny ... so that it’s not necessary ...
            1. grafrozow
              grafrozow 2 September 2013 20: 26 New
              -1
              Quote: smile
              I personally know some of the guys from under Lviv .... for all their "national pride" they do not hide that they have more than just ... a fox priest! And in the economy, and in politics, and in corruption, and with law enforcement agencies, the situation is many times worse than ours ....
              I personally know the guys from Altai, Tula, Tambov, Voronezh ... they do not hide that they go to the North to earn money, because they have a priest scribe at home ... Where is better, enough pisyuny to be measured, it is not yet known what will be in the East after the flood, how will people live there?
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 18: 05 New
            0
            With a Russian pension in Ukraine and I would feel like a king, my father-in-law told me that not every manager receives my salary in UAH. My father-in-law has a pension of 850 hryvnias, and if I transfer my 18 into hryvnias, that is, I will divide by 000, then you can live. But only because in the economic sense, Ukraine is ten years behind us. I bought a winter jacket for my granddaughter in translation with our money for 4 rubles. Having a transfer from Russia of 400 hryvnias ... it's a hundred jackets.
  • pakfa-t-50
    pakfa-t-50 31 August 2013 20: 28 New
    12
    And someone shed blood for these lands and these morons gave them away
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 31 August 2013 20: 36 New
      11
      Quote: pakfa-t-50
      And someone shed blood for these lands and these morons gave them away

      Not a faceless "someone", but our grandfathers and great-grandfathers. I agree with the rest.
      Sincerely. hi
  • FATEMOGAN
    FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 22: 15 New
    0
    I apologize for the off topic, but the important news is about Syria. Barack Obama said that his people provided convincing evidence of Assad's use of chemical weapons. But, given the experience of Iraq, US troops will not enter Syria ... Therefore, it was decided to take limited measures (just strikes by the world's strongest aviation and navy). But when this will be done is unknown. Although Obama has the ability to attack Syria right now, he wants to enlist the support of Congress for such an operation, despite the sad experience with the UK. However, he said before that he had the moral right to conduct this operation without the consent of Congress.
    PS British Prime Minister Cameron, by the way, may try again to discuss this issue with Parliament after Obama convinces his own. Perhaps it will be so.
    1. BotaniQ
      BotaniQ 1 September 2013 16: 12 New
      +1
      according to the US Constitution, "in a situation where no one attacks the United States, only Congress has the right to decide whether to join the United States in a war"

      As of August 30, 140 U.S. congressmen - both Republicans and Democrats - have signed on a letter that says in black and white that President Obama will violate the Constitution if he orders to strike Syria without receiving Congress permission.

      http://oko-planet.su/first/208061-kto-ostanovit-prezidenta-izgoya.html
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 1 September 2013 04: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: FATEMOGAN
    Quote: Amur
    Let Crimea be returned and feel as they want, I personally will spit ...


    Well, if you ask from the Zapadents originally Russian lands, it can be based on this map, and not only Crimea. (clickable)


    The gift of Stalin to return to Europe, hetmans with panes on the birch and you can begin to accept Ukraine in the vehicle.
  • Renat
    Renat 1 September 2013 11: 43 New
    +2
    Judging by the map, Ukraine is just an enclave in Russia. That's for sure a century live a century to learn. Knew about Crimea given by Khrushchev, About Western Ukraine but so much land donated!
    1. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 18: 09 New
      +1
      How relatives were surprised when I showed them a map of 39 years, where Chernigov is the city of the RSFSR.
  • roial
    roial 31 August 2013 17: 03 New
    -55
    And what will you do with it ???
    You do not have enough money to maintain a military base in the Crimea, and here the entire peninsula.
    Do you think that the Tatars will be very happy for you ???
    Aren't you afraid of the second Chechnya ?? Those who remember the deportation still live there.
    1. svp67
      svp67 31 August 2013 17: 08 New
      19
      Quote: roial
      And what will you do with it ???
      don't worry find that ...
      Quote: roial
      You do not have enough money to maintain a military base in the Crimea, and here the entire peninsula.

      You better look carefully in your pocket, and why not count other people's money ..
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 August 2013 17: 29 New
        20
        Quote: svp67
        You better look carefully in your pocket,

        And look at him, there’s a shank wassat
        1. svp67
          svp67 31 August 2013 17: 36 New
          -6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And look at him, there’s a shank
          And yet...
        2. S-200
          S-200 31 August 2013 17: 49 New
          +5
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And look at him, there’s a shank

          the "shank" is not a tear, but this is already "something" ... wassat
          boom aptimists! drinks
          1. ziqzaq
            ziqzaq 31 August 2013 21: 53 New
            +3
            Quote: S-200
            boom aptimists!

            I apologize for the flood:
            Optimist teaches Russian
            Pessimist teaches Chinese
            Realist - Kalashnikov assault rifle ......
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 1 September 2013 00: 00 New
              -3
              Gentlemen, try to think! But Roial RIGHT! In vain you minus it. Just imagine that Ukraine gave us the Crimea ....
              Thieving officials rush to share Crimean real estate, officials who bought real estate in Sochi and built up at the expense of the Olympstroy realize that they are losers and they are sharing the most delicious thing now! They’ll come up with some kind of olympiad or world championship in bed wrestling in order to rebuild new mansions in the Crimea at the state expense! And the country can’t stand another olympiad, we already have a housing and communal services economy in disrepair !!! Candles in churches will rise in price, because you yourself know that not only the president needs a new residence in Crimea.
              Navalny will not restrain himself and will begin to expose all this with incomprehensible money. Officials will fall upon Navalny, Navalny will run to Strasbourg ... Zhirinovsky, Zyuganov, Prokhorov, Mizulin, Parfyonov will connect from different sides ... That's it !!!
              This is a nightmare !!! wassat
              Dear Ukrainians, please wait when we take the thieves in the government !!! In the meantime, do not give us the Crimea, we may not survive this! Here is a bit later - please!
              1. bomg.77
                bomg.77 1 September 2013 00: 17 New
                0
                SW Smirnov gave you a plus, not for the content of the comment, but for the submission! hi
                1. vladkavkaz
                  vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 09: 14 New
                  +2
                  Only if you look at his commentary from a humorous point of view, then wait, plus you can, but in fact, a nonsense speech ...
                  1. S_mirnov
                    S_mirnov 1 September 2013 16: 05 New
                    +5
                    Quote: vladkavkaz
                    Only if you look at his commentary, from a humorous point of view

                    Well, at least a couple of people on the site with a sense of humor were found hi
              2. zvereok
                zvereok 1 September 2013 00: 28 New
                +2
                Quote: S_mirnov
                Dear Ukrainians, please wait when we take the thieves in the government !!! In the meantime, do not give us the Crimea, we may not survive this! Here is a bit later - please!


                There is another way. There is always another way out, even if you are eaten.
              3. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 01: 58 New
                +4
                Quote: S_mirnov
                Thieving officials rush to share Crimean real estate,

                Oh, Smirnov, you are all for yours. Everyone wants to defeat theft in Russia, well, it's from the realm of fantasy. They stole, they steal and they will steal. As the classic said, if they wake me up after 100 years and ask what is happening in Russia now, they drink and steal. Remember who said wassat
              4. vladkavkaz
                vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 09: 12 New
                +1
                Explain that the objects of the OLYMPIAD are all these roads, structures, except for those immediately installed for transfer to another place, where will they go?
                Neither you, nor anyone else, will you use them when traveling to SOCHI? What kind of stupidity?
                In your head, along with this skull is a roial (complete devastation.
                1. S_mirnov
                  S_mirnov 1 September 2013 13: 34 New
                  0
                  Quote: vladkavkaz
                  all these roads, structures, except for those immediately established for transfer to another place, where will they go?

                  Yes, they fall apart in a couple of years. Or maybe earlier.
                  Quote: vladkavkaz
                  Neither you, nor anyone else, will you use them when traveling to SOCHI?

                  That I dump so much money on holidays in Sochi, there are places much better and without sky-high prices. So olympstroy - unnecessarily.
                  1. vladkavkaz
                    vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 13: 42 New
                    +2
                    Yes? And you were a "connoisseur" there? Have you seen what was built? No? Then what are your not very smart remarks about?
                    Too much money to dump, you to Turkey, Egypt?
                    Very patriotic.
                    Money to strangers, but you don’t have to build anything at home, why “will it fall apart”, do you yourself understand the stupidity of your comments?
                    This answer to me reminds me of the cries of Navalny and others like him, rotten anchovies, which do not do anything in the country, everything is bad.
                  2. BotaniQ
                    BotaniQ 1 September 2013 16: 34 New
                    +2
                    Quote: vladkavkaz
                    Yes? And you were a "connoisseur" there? Have you seen what was built?

                    Well, I happen to be beautiful, grandiose, but what's cool. Skepticism causes what money and who will save it. I doubt that at least 70% of Russians (the budget doesn’t count, his interest will disappear after the Olympics) is affordable. No matter how much patriotism I have, I am not going to pay for these "show-offs" with inadequate prices. Therefore, I certainly hope that I am greatly mistaken, but the feeling that everything will be like with Rusnano, RAO UES, Skolkovo and so on
              5. BotaniQ
                BotaniQ 1 September 2013 16: 26 New
                +1
                after the Olympics, these objects, roads, etc., need to be maintained ... and this is not cheap to put it mildly, and as usual, we have "trouble" with economic expediency.
            2. Garrin
              Garrin 1 September 2013 13: 39 New
              0
              Quote: S_mirnov
              Thieving officials rush to share Crimean real estate,

              Surprise me with your naivety. Everything has been stolen and divided there for a long time, including by Russian officials and oligarchs.
              1. S_mirnov
                S_mirnov 1 September 2013 16: 03 New
                0
                Quote: Garrin
                Everything has been stolen and divided there for a long time, including by Russian officials and oligarchs.

                But you are right, I suppose there were only state employees who are on the state government support. Schools, hospitals ...
            3. BotaniQ
              BotaniQ 1 September 2013 16: 21 New
              0
              nobody will ever give us anything, neither Crimea, nor technology, nor investment. Our ancestors realized this more than 100 years ago. The country itself is able to provide for itself and its allies. Given clearly defined tasks, we have both the resources and the mind to feed and equip the people to solve these problems. The leadership would have the will and desire, and the “effective” owners, after 20 years of experimenting with the Country, under their tricolor, should break the blue ice to the bloody corns in the white north.
            4. Setrac
              Setrac 1 September 2013 19: 57 New
              +2
              Quote: S_mirnov
              Gentlemen, try to think!

              Just think for a moment what will happen to the Russian economy if Ukraine decides to join the Russian Federation (not the Customs Union). And the main thing you can’t refuse, your people will not understand.
          2. S-200
            S-200 1 September 2013 16: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: ziqzaq
            I apologize for the flood:
            Optimist teaches Russian
            Pessimist teaches Chinese
            Realist - Kalashnikov assault rifle ......

            Kalashnikov and Russian - I know from childhood! soldier
            PS And if I only know in Chinese:
            不许动! 举起 手 来! - Not from the spot! Hands up!
            no hao (hello!) - 你好,
            и "Walking, salt is NECESSARY ?!"
            then how much do you think I am a pessimist?
            request
  • FATEMOGAN
    FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 17: 20 New
    23
    Quote: roial
    Aren't you afraid of the second Chechnya ?? Those who remember the deportation still live there.


    As far as I know, Tatars there are only 10 percent, this time. Second, there are enough Russians who remember the numerous betrayals of these Tatars during the Great Patriotic War (for which they actually were exiled) and if they are given free rein, they themselves will restore order if some thugs wedge and they start to rage.
    1. svp67
      svp67 31 August 2013 17: 35 New
      +8
      Quote: FATEMOGAN
      As far as I know, Tatars there are only 10 percent, this time.

      But they are very united, which for us often lacks ...
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 18: 23 New
        19
        Quote: svp67
        But they are very united, which for us often lacks ...


        That’s for sure, but even among the Tatars, not all polls are chauvinists and frozen Wahhabis, I myself know a couple who are for an alliance with Russia. It’s just that nobody drives the buzzing elements there, so they are insolent and give out their will, as the will of all the Tatars, but this is not so.
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 31 August 2013 18: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: FATEMOGAN
          It’s just that no one drives buzzing elements there, so they’re insolent

          And what is better with us? There the children of the mountains already got everyone, soon they will be lynched from the inaction of the authorities! In Moscow, it seems, they began to clean the markets, so the elections of Sabyanin will soon end, and then ...
          Yes, and mostly Chechens greet and drive Vietnamese from the markets! Absurd!
        2. Egoza
          Egoza 31 August 2013 20: 42 New
          +6
          Quote: FATEMOGAN
          It’s just that nobody drives the buzzing elements there, so they are insolent and give out their will, as the will of all the Tatars, but this is not so.

          Buzoters also feel Turkey’s support behind them. They go to study there and be treated like the son of Dzhemilev ... So they’ve “plundered”
          1. FATEMOGAN
            FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 20: 50 New
            +5
            Quote: Egoza
            Buzoters also feel Turkey’s support behind them. They go to study there and be treated like the son of Dzhemilev ... So they’ve “plundered”


            I heard that some are going to Syria on the side of the militants to fight, the question is what will they do next with the gained combat experience ...
          2. revnagan
            revnagan 31 August 2013 23: 12 New
            +2
            Quote: Egoza
            Buzoters also feel Turkey’s support behind them. They go to study there and be treated like the son of Dzhemilev ... So they’ve “plundered”

            Well, we Russians in Ukraine do not feel such support on any side ...
        3. svp67
          svp67 31 August 2013 20: 52 New
          +8
          Quote: FATEMOGAN
          That's for sure, but even among the Tatars, not all polls are chauvinists and frozen Wahhabis,
          There was such a cool pilot Ahmed Khan Sultan, Crimean by nationality, and by life - the most striking Russian chauvinist ...
          1. zub46
            zub46 31 August 2013 23: 13 New
            +2
            In life, as she showed in kind, it was a Hero and an ace pilot who fought for our great country.
          2. bilgesez
            bilgesez 31 August 2013 23: 53 New
            -6
            And you personally knew him, maybe this is just a legend.
          3. alex13-61
            alex13-61 1 September 2013 11: 31 New
            0
            Quote: svp67
            There was such a cool pilot Ahmed Khan Sultan, Crimean by nationality

            By nationality - Crimean Tatar.
            So they are different ... And now they have a mess in the leadership .. Many are dissatisfied with corruption in the Mejlis
        4. alex13-61
          alex13-61 1 September 2013 11: 56 New
          0
          Quote: FATEMOGAN
          That’s for sure, but even among the Tatars, not all polls are chauvinists and frozen Wahhabis, I myself know a couple who are for an alliance with Russia. It’s just that nobody drives the buzzing elements there, so they are insolent and give out their will, as the will of all the Tatars, but this is not so.

          I agree. I will add: buzzing elements are still supported by Ukrainian nationalists, because no one else in Crimea supports them.
    2. revnagan
      revnagan 31 August 2013 23: 11 New
      +3
      Quote: FATEMOGAN
      there are enough Russians who remember the numerous betrayals of these Tatars during the Great Patriotic War (for which they were actually exiled) and if they are given free rein,

      Oh, they’ve made fun! Well, whoever wants us to (we are Russian from Russia, and Ukraine, and normal, adequate Ukrainians) .We, having felt the will, will give not only nationalists and traitors, but also those who for the last 22 years they have been roofing and indulging them. Remember the story how many times the government betrayed its people and their interests to the threat of losing power? That's it ... If it weren’t for the will, but at least they wouldn’t bind hand and foot, roofing outright traitors. ..
      "No one will give us deliverance
      neither the king, nor God and not a hero ... ", well, further on in the text. And hope for the rulers, these snot in syrup, it will chew endlessly.
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 1 September 2013 00: 00 New
        +3
        Quote: revnagan
        Ha, they’ve made fun!


        The will is not in a piece of paper allowing you to smash all the freaks and banderlogs, the will is in you, and until you wake up, no one will bring her darling to you voluntarily. After all, you have a pretty little silushka, in Crimea the majority of Russians have tea, but there is no leader who would awaken the people and lead them along. Personally, in the whole Ukrainian horizon, only Vetrenko, as a politician, is impressed, as far as I know, she never wagged her tail, like a corrupt "party of regions" and "communists" too. She was always for Russians and Russia, she didn’t climb into her pocket for words - she cuts the truth of the womb, they say about such people they’ll go into a hot hut and stop the horse for a ride, why you can’t rally around it. And create at least in Crimea a strong one about the Russian party, and there you can dictate and see your own fat.
    3. zvereok
      zvereok 1 September 2013 00: 30 New
      0
      The second there are enough Russians who remember the numerous betrayals of these Tatars


      And now about the Russian villages along the Terek.
      1. BotaniQ
        BotaniQ 1 September 2013 16: 57 New
        +3
        I will not forget about the village along the Sunzha, abandoned cities and towns in Central Asia. I see, wait and hope for a swift left turn, and the collapse of capitalism. And there everyone deserves it, to whom to build a fair society, and to whom an ice pick for "services" to the Fatherland.
    4. rolik
      rolik 1 September 2013 02: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: FATEMOGAN
      As far as I know, there are only 10 percent of Tatars,

      Usually, everything starts with these 10-17 percent, and then military operations in the mountains, forests and other areas (remember Kosovo). As soon as a leader appears, or a country that provides this leader and finances him. And near the Crimea just such countries are located, for example, Turkey. Still, it seems like Romania is carefully looking at certain territories of Ukraine.
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 1 September 2013 08: 27 New
        +3
        Quote: rolik
        Usually, everything starts with these 10-17 percent, and then military operations in the mountains and forests


        I think the problem here is not so much in percentage but in the fact that terrorist organizations, such as hizbutahri, are not banned or persecuted by the authorities. Supported by Turkey, a banned organization in many countries, including Russia, Ukraine blossoms and multiplies, that's IT as sooner or later it will explode, it is enough to look at the example of Syria.
    5. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US 1 September 2013 23: 10 New
      0
      Do not console yourself with the illusions of a forest brother, the Russians cannot cope with a handful of southern guys in their villages and towns, they endure, so they will tolerate the Tatars ....
      1. lelikas
        lelikas 1 September 2013 23: 17 New
        0
        Quote: NOBODY EXCEPT US
        Do not console yourself with the illusions of a forest brother, the Russians cannot cope with a handful of southern guys in their villages and towns, they endure, so they will tolerate the Tatars ....

        In the "villages" they have been successfully shot for a long time, only especially high-profile cases get on TV, and the rest is jammed quietly. Our only drawback is that we are very patient.
      2. Day 11
        Day 11 1 September 2013 23: 36 New
        0
        I’ve been living under the Tatar yoke for 20 years laughing . Nothing. I will endure. Even the taste came
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Uralean
    Uralean 31 August 2013 20: 14 New
    +6
    We are not afraid! Enough of the frightened already ... And you don’t need to scare us, the second Chechnya or the third Georgian-Ossetian conflict! On the bill, what will we do with Crimea? The Russian emperors and Russian troops have long given an answer, in numerous wars with Turkey and Europe! Don’t ask any more questions, but turn on your brain a little! And most importantly - Who are the current Ukrainians? These are People resettled in Little Russia, from the inner provinces of the Russian Empire, after the conquest from the Protesians of the Crimean khans ... Princes and landowners of Russia were the owners of these lands ... These are the current descendants of Ukraine - the same, Novgorod, Kursk, Yaroslavl, Ryazan, and Tula peasants ..
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 31 August 2013 20: 24 New
    +5
    Quote: roial
    And what will you do with it ???
    You do not have enough money to maintain a military base in the Crimea, and here the entire peninsula.
    Do you think that the Tatars will be very happy for you ???
    Aren't you afraid of the second Chechnya ?? Those who remember the deportation still live there.

    Before commenting without studying the subject of the dispute, think about whether it is worth it? Chechens at times the clergy of the Crimean Tatars, about the Russian Tatars, I generally keep quiet, they are closer to the Jews, they did not give up the “war” in FIG - is not profitable. So there will be no second Chechnya there - there is no one to fight, riots are possible, but nothing more, the Ukrainian special forces will introduce and quickly bring all the Tatars to their senses. Unless the mercenaries, but where do they come from in such numbers, the nearby regions are not rich in beards, unless they "sail" from Turkey.
    Regarding the content of the database - who told you that there is not enough money for it, where can this infa come from, can you share it?
    Regarding the Crimea, it is the Russian land watered with Russian blood, Russian people live there - we don’t need to give it away, it has always been and will be Russian.
  • bomg.77
    bomg.77 31 August 2013 21: 16 New
    +4
    Quote: roial
    Those who remember the deportation still live there.
    Vo-in, let them not forget! Crimean Tatars got what they deserved in the 44 year. They were traitors and enemies of the USSR, and the enemy received what he deserved.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 1 September 2013 04: 45 New
    11
    Quote: roial
    And what will you do with it ???
    You do not have enough money to maintain a military base in the Crimea, and here the entire peninsula.
    Do you think that the Tatars will be very happy for you ???
    Aren't you afraid of the second Chechnya ?? Those who remember the deportation still live there.

    Of course, my Pindoco affair is on the side, but precisely because they remember the deportation and will not rock the boat. This is especially nowhere to send in Ukraine, everywhere the climate is relatively mild, and there are no free lands. And in Russia, of course, there are no more Central Asian republics (like they sent there, but too lazy to check), but there are no free lands near Magadan, in which case there will be enough for all the Tatars, and still will.
    1. And raid
      And raid 2 September 2013 08: 59 New
      0
      The population of Crimea is 70% Russian, they were specially inhabited there at one time (distribution after studies, construction ...) There are Russian cities and towns, there are Crimean Tatar, they live mostly apart. If that happens, the massacre will be city to city, that is, a protracted confrontation, because both the Russian and Crimean Tatars are very well organized there. The authorities, in turn, will not allow the slaughter, and the “sponsors of democracy” are not welcomed in Crimea, the mentality is not the same.
  • vladkavkaz
    vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 09: 09 New
    +2
    roial (
    Crimea Tatars ... And what exactly are those Crimea Tatars7There they are the same different, there are frank Judas who live at times when the vast majority served the Nazis, now they serve the United States by uniting with the Bandera Svidomites. So this scum was once suppressed and the second time their fate will be the same.
    There’s nothing to blame for Chechnya — two lessons were not in vain taught, there won’t be a third time, they understood perfectly well what would happen, if for the third time, crazy people would try to bite their mouths on Russia in general, and even more so with arms in their hands, there’s no such support there moods.
  • Dovmont
    Dovmont 1 September 2013 09: 28 New
    +3
    There will be no second Chechnya in Crimea for two reasons: 1) Geographically, Crimea is easier to control, with only 2 land roads and 1 ferry crossing, sea routes for unwanted elements are even easier to block.
    2) The Russian-speaking population of the peninsula is noticeably superior to the Crimean Tatar, in the event of a conflict it will be able to repulse the Tatar nationalists, naturally with the support of the authorities. The main thing is that the Russian authorities would take a clear course towards the return of the Crimea to Russia!
  • alex13-61
    alex13-61 1 September 2013 11: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: roial
    You do not have enough money to maintain a military base in the Crimea, and here the entire peninsula.

    The poor of Ukraine is much better at it ...
    Quote: roial
    Do you think that the Tatars will be very happy for you ???

    Tatars 10% of the population of Crimea, and many of them are not against joining the Russian Federation (my neighbor, for example), and the rest (national Tatar radicals) for Ukraine only because it is weaker. And therefore they have thoughts about the Crimean " Khanate ". That is precisely why the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation bothers them in Sevastopol ...
  • I'm Russian
    I'm Russian 1 September 2013 13: 27 New
    +2
    Those who remember the deportation still live there.
    Let them say thanks for not being shot for aiding Germany
  • Radoslav
    Radoslav 1 September 2013 15: 45 New
    0
    What to fear, I did not understand, Chechens piz .. duley received, and all that
  • Setrac
    Setrac 1 September 2013 19: 54 New
    0
    Quote: roial
    You do not have enough money to maintain a military base in the Crimea, and here the entire peninsula.

    If it were only money, long ago all of Ukraine would be bought out.
  • shasherin_pavel
    shasherin_pavel 3 September 2013 18: 16 New
    +1
    Even the Tatars remember that it was not Ukraine that won the Crimea, but Russia, and therefore not of any respect. And if they forgot the history of the conquest of Crimea, they will see how our riot police work, they will immediately remember who the boss is in the house. By the way, Chechnya is now the most peaceful people, the trouble is that the boors come to us who do not want to live peacefully according to the laws of Chechnya, and they judge all Chechens by them. So we are not afraid of anything.
  • aleksandr1959
    aleksandr1959 31 August 2013 18: 04 New
    -12
    Oh, are there thinking people here? Wonder why
    Moscow shobla so tears asshole with the Taiga Union. Known
    that, wherever tasty
    feed, i.e. do not like in the EU, crawl in the vehicle and no
    problems .... But you do not know that Ukrainians in the EU
    attracts not high-quality and cheap goods, no cancellation of customs clearance
    on a / m and not visa-free travel around the world ....
    The main conditions for EU accession are judicial reform, changes
    laws on the Ministry of Internal Affairs, prosecutors and administrative reform. But not
    renaming the police to the police, namely reform with a change
    accountability and personal responsibility of managers. WITH
    the inevitable transparency and extradition of criminals to their homeland.
    A lot of Russians have friends and relatives in Ukraine. Incomparably
    more than in Georgia. Read what neutral people write
    visited Georgia .... If now people are wondering,
    why do we live so shitty, then after a couple of years and a couple of trips
    to truly free Ukraine - the answers will begin to sound ..., and
    may be queues.
    Ukraine fell out, there may be a single chance when at the helm of Russia
    turned out to be a narrow-minded and narcissistic alpha male with a whip in his hands,
    but forgetting the gingerbread. Thanks to which, the pro-Russian south and east,
    amicably swung towards Europe. And this is despite the fact that the vector on
    Europe was privatized by "Freedom" consisting of a third of personnel
    soshnikov and a third of the provocateurs who managed for three years, spoil
    relations with all neighbors.
    In Ukraine, there were NEVER anti-Russian sentiments,
    anti-Russian - YES, but not anti-Russian. Russian Ukrainians, better
    than anyone understands that the Rubicon has been crossed. Next or Civil
    war or hangover recovery.
    The perspective of relations between Russia and Ukraine, to put it mildly,
    disturbing. After a series of gas, customs and other cold wars -
    hot war is inevitable. Under the sauce, type, protect the rights of fellow tribesmen in
    Crimea or restoration of livestock of kulans in Tavria. No difference,
    but inevitably. There are no other ways to protect criminal regimes.
    And only on how it goes and what kind of support
    will be used in Russia, the future of our relations depends.
    The grimace of history - Yanukovych, unlike its predecessors will enter
    into world history. Not funny and amazing ....
    Discussion is welcome. With oakheads, in their language ....
    1. svp67
      svp67 31 August 2013 18: 15 New
      13
      Quote: aleksandr1959
      Discussion is welcome. With oakheads, in their language ....

      It’s strange how you conduct a discussion, defend your opinion, take offense at various remarks, but yourself without any hesitation
      Quote: aleksandr1959
      Wonder why
      Moscow shobla so tears asshole with the Taiga Union.


      Quote: aleksandr1959
      those. I don’t like it in the EU, they’ll crawl into the CU and no problems ..

      Do not console yourself with this thought. Russia and the alliances it has created can still be left somehow, but Europe cannot be let go of anyone anymore ... like from a “quagmire”.
    2. FATEMOGAN
      FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 18: 45 New
      14
      Quote: aleksandr1959
      The main conditions for joining the EU are judicial reform, amendments to laws on the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the prosecutor's office and administrative reform. But the non-renaming of the police to the police, namely the reform with a change in the accountability and personal responsibility of leaders


      Well, you say with such honed stamps, who is stopping you now to restore order or are you hoping for a good uncle from Brussels? I’m not saying that no one in the EU is going to take Ukraine in the next 20 years. Dear, do not confuse the FTA agreement with the EU where you enter with the EU itself. In Europe, the ZTA is signed with Chile and Egypt, but this does not mean that they will enter the EU itself. I’ll tell you a secret, from my own experience, in Lithuania, after joining the EU, the same people who were before the accession remained at the official places.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 31 August 2013 18: 51 New
        0
        Quote: FATEMOGAN
        I’m not saying that no one in the EU is going to take Ukraine in the next 20 years. Dear, do not confuse the FTA agreement with the EU where you enter with the EU itself. In Europe, the ZTA is signed with Chile and Egypt, but this does not mean that they will enter the EU itself.

        You tell this to those forum users whose alleged signing of the FTZ is Ukraine’s automatic accession to the EU and NATO and Russia's "betrayal".
        1. FATEMOGAN
          FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 19: 23 New
          12
          Quote: Corneli
          You tell this to those forum users whose alleged signing of the FTZ is Ukraine’s automatic accession to the EU and NATO and Russia's "betrayal".


          So the point is not in betrayal, you confuse emotions to help brothers, with evil intentions. And the thing is simply that people are mainly rooting for Ukraine, for brothers, for ordinary people, who will suffer and suffer very much from the ZTS and the EU, only oligarchs will win. Lithuania went through this and I saw everything with my own eyes, you know, I won’t wish the enemy.
      2. O_RUS
        O_RUS 1 September 2013 00: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: FATEMOGAN
        who's stopping you from putting things in order right now or are you hoping for a good uncle from Brussels?


        ... well, you know ... yes your mind is not enough. Would be savvy - in * opu not climbed. Well, if the injury is allowed ... to be guilty? ... don't like it that way. It's easier to blame someone and for something.
      3. rolik
        rolik 1 September 2013 09: 13 New
        0
        Quote: FATEMOGAN
        or hope for a good uncle from Brussels

        They are waiting for a good uncle from .... from the drum from where, if only come with denyushki. And then Yanukovych with a joyful ryba on the face will vigorously shake his rutsei. While getting up in exquisite poses from the Kama Sutra.
    3. KCC
      KCC 31 August 2013 18: 47 New
      +8
      Time will tell what the EU will give Ukraine. I think the result will be the same as after leaving the USSR
    4. uizik
      uizik 31 August 2013 19: 28 New
      15
      Full accession to the EU is not and never will be. There will be no reforms in the judicial system, prosecutors and the Ministry of Internal Affairs! One rattle and sheer deception! Let it go down in history as it did not fulfill its promises. And now there is no faith for it! Time will tell, only we shouldn’t scream! We don’t need a violent confrontation.
      1. zennon
        zennon 31 August 2013 21: 41 New
        +3
        One chatter and sheer deception

        Maybe. But in this case, can you explain the course to the geyropa, even taking into account the inevitable deterioration of trade and economic relations with Russia? In short, do you (Ukraine) need it ?!
    5. postman
      postman 31 August 2013 20: 09 New
      -3
      Quote: aleksandr1959
      war is inevitable.


      I do not believe in it. Fuck it !!!
      For the rest, they all wrote correctly,
      about the alpha male - like it.
      Is there a betta? And who?
      (for PR required)
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      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 20: 27 New
        +6
        Dodik, by the way, is simply a provocateur who seeks discord between the brothers, I won’t be surprised if he tries to bull on Ukrainian forums on behalf of the Russians or something like that to catch up with the negative there.
    7. Uralean
      Uralean 31 August 2013 20: 23 New
      +5
      Wow, what a syllable !!! Yes, you see, they got you right, since you rushed at them with a bayonet ... Well, well, run to your paradise, run ... But remember that you are right next to Russia .. And if that, no EU, or NATO will not help, as they did not help Georgia, although they also poisoned it against Russia, and promised the golden mountains ...
    8. And raid
      And raid 31 August 2013 21: 06 New
      +1
      All this sounds wonderful, but it seems to me, unfortunately, that this is "Komsomol optimism."
    9. xan
      xan 31 August 2013 22: 06 New
      14
      Quote: aleksandr1959
      The main conditions for EU accession are judicial reform, changes
      laws on the Ministry of Internal Affairs, prosecutors and administrative reform.

      how much can you stupid!
      before your eyes is an example of countries that have already not entered into, but into the EU itself. Open these eyes and look. If you are satisfied with the prospect of finding a job in the EU, as the Baltic states - good riddance. This has nothing to do with the golden mountains in Ukraine. And your situation will be worse than that of the Baltic states - the EU already has no money, but Ukraine is big. And, for sure, they have courts, but they no longer have industry, and they will not be there anymore - the youth do not remain. And in Bulgaria, electricity bills have more pensions.
      Only its own national industry can bring the country to a relatively high standard of living. This is clear to all serious people. The EU does not need this, again, examples of accession countries. It is necessary to plow one or two generations for a meager salary, as in South Korea or Japan at one time, with almost closed borders. Or to have what can be offered for new technologies and a relatively high standard of living. Russia has it, Ukraine does not and will not.
      So look not at Germany and France with the Czech Republic, but at the Baltic states with Romania, Bulgaria, etc.
      Morally you have surrendered, you want to be given a good life right away. Take an interest in the history of such examples?
    10. zub46
      zub46 31 August 2013 23: 31 New
      -1
      It seems that the third attempt by Ukraine to break free bread will be successful. Previous: the first - Hetman Mazepa, the second - during the Civil War in Russia. The author is in many ways right, and while we are at home, we don’t know and don’t understand much. The main condition for political passivity of the eastern regions of Ukraine is the general fatigue of the population from a mess, theft and uncertainty in the country, as well as in Russia. Everything is bored with people, and if they are attracted to the EU, the masses hope for better public relations, an elementary order, in the end. It seems to me that our rulers went too far in relations with Ukraine. I disagree with many. Rather, he would have justified a military action in part of the Crimea, the overthrow of the ruling elite. There was hope that most Ukrainians would understand this and accept for the sake of unification. And so - for what to unite? Again, to divide the "privatized" by the local in favor of the Russians? Confusion and shooting again? It will be bad for us without Ukraine. And Ukraine, unfortunately, will manage without us. What are the Baltic states, and then adapted
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 1 September 2013 00: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: zub46
        It seems that the third attempt by Ukraine to break free bread will be successful.


        Free bread say, well, well. Free bread happens only you know where.

        Quote: zub46
        It will be bad for us without Ukraine. And Ukraine, unfortunately, will manage without us. What are the Baltic states, and then adapted


        They adapted, a person such a creature will adapt to everything, only a new, logical question arises regarding the exhaustion of time - and it had to be twisted so that it wouldn’t live later, but adapt. Although the Baltic states owe Russia’s coffin, they won’t be with her at this stage, people were so brainwashed that you can’t imagine. But Ukraine is completely different, this is our native land, for it our fathers and great-great-great-grandfathers fought for the millennium, so that they would give it to plunder the Westerners and Europeans.
    11. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 10: 57 New
      +4
      Hmm, Russian-speaking - "Russian Ukrainians, better
      than anyone understands that the Rubicon has been crossed. Next or Civil
      war or a hangover recovery. "Yeah, so, judging by you, you are going to fight with someone for the EU, or what with Russia?
      "In Ukraine, there were NEVER anti-Russian sentiments,
      anti-Russian - YES, but not anti-Russian. "- Why did you cheat as an excuse for dope? So I imagined a certain aleksandr1959, chained to a machine gun, in the war against Russia, for the interests of independent Bandera soldiers ...
      Excuse me, I’m not related to Ukraine, such meannesses who preach anti-Russian, anti-Russian and God forbid warlike moods are simply and unpretentious-RAGULI, who were not given a mind.
      All your comments, this is a projection of anti-Russian, anti-Russian propaganda through your stream of consciousness, unfortunately, and the TS is what Ukraine itself needs.
      Cars, second-hand, and even new, you can’t smear bread, you can’t replace fat with lard, and when you have, the rest of the industry will collapse, what will you do — Mercedes and Porsche cook in a pot?
  • Aleks21
    Aleks21 31 August 2013 18: 59 New
    -15
    Take it, give it! (In my mind I’m counting: -2 million votes for Yanukovych and his blue Donetsk brothers, the next election for Freedom!)
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 31 August 2013 19: 24 New
      +6
      Quote: Alex21
      subsequent elections for Freedom!)


      Why so? Yanukovych will cut funding for his mercenaries - ukrofashists from "tsvolota", and they will be blown away by their already low popularity in circles not very literate like an airship - with indecent sound.
    2. Aleks21
      Aleks21 23 March 2014 11: 36 New
      0
      Damn, how I croaked sad
  • Anat1974
    Anat1974 31 August 2013 19: 41 New
    21
    Amur, you are sometimes friends with the brain. Someone may not like my attitude, but Ukrainians are our brothers, they are in a difficult situation, but still they are our brothers. Enough already cormorant and throw stamped and memorized slogans. In general, do you need Crimea? Ride, take a rest, he is already practically Russian. For me personally, everything that happens in Ukraine is a tragedy. I feel sorry for the people, I really want us to be one country and it hurts me greatly when we Russians lose our sense of reality and begin to dictate terms to others. In fact, all of us (and Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs, etc.) have a sense of pride in their country, for their people, each has its own story. And I think very few people will like it when their country is spread rot. Treat others as yourself and everything will be in openwork.
  • Yazov
    Yazov 31 August 2013 21: 21 New
    +3
    I think that just so Ukraine will not be let go of Crimea and it. Crimea is strategically very important. There are many options. One of them is economic, the second, military. Well, a lot of options by Western standards, such as color revolutions.
  • rolik
    rolik 1 September 2013 01: 51 New
    +5
    Quote: Amur
    Let Crimea be returned

    They will not return it. As in a joke - I will not eat, so I bite.
    And they themselves won’t hold it, the Tatars will take it away. That is in all its glory the politics of past and present, and, it seems, of future authorities as independent. In addition to arrogance, wagging their ass in front of two chairs, they can do nothing. Neither to pull the country out of the pit, nor to decide what they generally want. The bottom line is only the pathos about the Great and Independent Ukraine, which has long turned into a groomed and collapsed shack.
  • SPLV
    SPLV 1 September 2013 09: 51 New
    +2
    I don’t understand why there are so many pluses? For infantility? Spit on people, each of whom has relatives in Russia, that is, on his brothers, sisters, grandmothers? To the land for which so much blood has been shed !? No need to write nonsense!
  • KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 1 September 2013 12: 15 New
    +3
    Quote: Amur
    Let Crimea be returned and feel as they want, I personally will spit ...

    Want to sneeze? Take an antiallergic drug ... and it all goes away! And then everything will become clear to you ... you can’t rejoice at the grief of someone else! You can only sympathize and empathize! And also try to get out of that situation when the interests of officials won!
    And CRIMEA, and many of those areas where industrial enterprises operate in the east, south, and the center, will themselves join RUSSIA ... You will not have to wait long after signing the treaty between Ukraine and the EU. This will be the real grief of the Ukrainian people.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 1 September 2013 14: 23 New
    +2
    Quote: Amur
    Let Crimea be returned and feel as they want, I personally will spit ...

    On the American missile defense near Kiev, or on Guantanamo in Donetsk too spit? In Crimea, the light did not converge. We are surrounded on all sides.
  • dark_65
    dark_65 1 September 2013 22: 12 New
    +2
    Nobody will return Crimea, it’s just to be taken away, by any means (economic are preferable).
  • Kars
    Kars 31 August 2013 16: 54 New
    +3
    I remember that the Soviet Union fell apart precisely because Ukraine refused to enter the updated version of the Soviet Union, and this left Russia

    About the harassment - Already, Ukraine unilaterally destroyed the USSR.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 31 August 2013 17: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: Kars
      About the harassment - Already, Ukraine unilaterally destroyed the USSR.

      Yeah ... the political scientist "boomed" like a young God! fool
      1. not good
        not good 31 August 2013 18: 42 New
        11
        And the laughter is that the ardent expectation of Ukraine of a visa-free regime with Europe will remain expectations, so the EU has opened the borders to the associate member of the AHA. Wait, but if a miracle happens, then the visa regime with Russia is guaranteed 100%. And that At that time, the majority of Ukrainian citizens had no access to geyropa, but a visa with Russia was even more stressful.
        1. revnagan
          revnagan 31 August 2013 23: 22 New
          +4
          Quote: Negoro
          , so the EU has opened the borders to the associated member-AHA WAIT.

          Well, cho further. Well, suppose a miracle happened! -EU opened the borders ... At our income we can only get to Konotop laughing Well, or to Zernov (Druzhba settlement). Why the hell do I need this EU with its prices?
    2. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 1 September 2013 11: 07 New
      +6
      Kars (
      So let's say not Ukraine, but three wretched in a drunken stupor in Viskuly.
      True, in one of the countries, sobering came quickly and there, who signed the piece of paper, which had disappeared from somewhere, they prescribed a pension in the amount of Judas 30 ki, just at the rate of the toad skin.
      The second died, the monument in Yo-burg was always blue and cracked, the third is still creaking to Ukraine, I grab it for a long time, I don’t know, but the devil will tidy it up, as soon as marked Judas.
      And yet, all the same, the PEOPLE in 90, we were led by the cries of the Hameln troubadours, in the end we have what we have, a broken, split country, distraught people, shy from one extreme to another, while foggy prospects, in the form of TS and other projects reintegration, without which we all can’t survive.
  • tomas.09
    tomas.09 31 August 2013 18: 31 New
    +5
    And the Ukrainian authorities are between two fires.

    The Ukrainian authorities are in Zh.ope !!!
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 31 August 2013 18: 33 New
      11
      Quote: tomas.09
      The Ukrainian authorities are in Zh.ope !!!



      A little bit wrong. The authorities in chocolate, in # opu, they seek to push the people in order to hide the stuff in EuroPop.
      1. tomas.09
        tomas.09 31 August 2013 18: 34 New
        +1
        You know better)))
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 31 August 2013 18: 36 New
          +4
          Only your reason for laughter and joy is incomprehensible.
          1. tomas.09
            tomas.09 31 August 2013 18: 40 New
            +4
            Yes, there is no laughter and joy. Tired of these graters about Ukraine. Let them go anywhere, with anyone. In general, let them do what they want. Only so that later they do not crawl back and scream how poor they are, etc., etc. Who will yell the Ukrainian authorities or the people do not care. Let them live independently and do not ask for anything.
            1. Hudo
              Hudo 31 August 2013 19: 01 New
              13
              Quote: tomas.09
              Let them go anywhere, with anyone.


              I don’t understand who fells? Are you talking about those Russian people whom the burry and bald ilyich during the formation of the Ukrainian SSR drew his kagandashik along with Russian land? I wonder what songs you would sing if you had this syphilitic on the border with your miracle kagandashik a little to the east?
              1. FATEMOGAN
                FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 19: 50 New
                11
                Quote: Hudo
                I don’t understand who fells? Are you talking about those Russian people whom the burry and bald ilyich during the formation of the Ukrainian SSR drew his kagandashik along with Russian land?


                +
                Russian, the most divided people on earth, about 30 million live outside of Russia and behave like Ivan, who does not remember kinship, this only helps all mattresses and geyropeytsy destroy our people.
                1. tomas.09
                  tomas.09 31 August 2013 21: 23 New
                  +6
                  Otto Bismarck said well at the expense of the Russian people
                  Even the most favorable outcome of the war will never lead to the decomposition of the main power of Russia, which is based on millions of Russians ... These latter, even if they are dismembered by international treatises, are just as quickly reconnected with each other as particles of a cut piece of mercury ...
                  1. Yazov
                    Yazov 31 August 2013 21: 58 New
                    +7
                    Look at the household level and you can immediately understand everything! If a Caucasian is beaten, then everyone who is from the Caucasus and doesn’t even, but with such a profile, will immediately be on defense. If they beat a Russian, then my hut from the edge ....
                    Throughout the entire soviet period, the theme of internationalism was inspired by the people. So we got it.
                    And the west does not pass by, they understand that our strength is in unity. And they are doing everything possible and impossible to prevent the Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians from uniting. And every year the point of no return is getting closer and not just idle talk and candy wars are needed. We need a theme on the basis of which there will be a merger of fraternal peoples.
                    1. tomas.09
                      tomas.09 31 August 2013 22: 24 New
                      +3
                      YOU are undoubtedly right, but there were times and the Mongol-Tatar yoke. The situation is almost similar to the current one. They endured 300 years, fought between each other, but then they got up and got together and dispersed. The Caucasus bites to the extent that a small dog always sticks on a big one and finely ga.dit !!! So it was with everyone, but then there was a Russian riot, then you yourself know)))
                    2. tomas.09
                      tomas.09 31 August 2013 22: 32 New
                      +3
                      Russia is indifferent to human life and the passage of time. She is speechless. She is eternal. She is indestructible ...
                  2. Shumer
                    Shumer 31 August 2013 22: 01 New
                    12
                    Regarding Bismarck, you're right, the smartest person was. And personally, my opinion is that Germans are the most adequate of all geyrops.
                    1. tomas.09
                      tomas.09 31 August 2013 22: 48 New
                      +8
                      I would say more, Russia and Germany are the most efficient nations of Europe. I don’t remember who said it, but the point is that if the Russians and Germans united, then everyone would have a kirdyk !!!
                    2. yur
                      yur 2 September 2013 23: 00 New
                      0
                      I would say even more that Russia and Germany are the most efficient nations of the world. Although about Germany, there are more doubts about their tolerant LGBT people.
              2. Bezarius
                Bezarius 31 August 2013 23: 57 New
                +2
                And the people who do not know their history. Theories of the emergence of our people - a dime a dozen ...
                1. rolik
                  rolik 1 September 2013 09: 19 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Bezarius
                  Theories of the emergence of our people - a dime a dozen.

                  Just like other nations EXACTLY no one knows where he came from .... no one. And to equate themselves with the Olympic gods can only those peoples who actually descended from the most worthless zamuhryga in their tribe.
          2. Uralean
            Uralean 31 August 2013 20: 37 New
            +8
            Dear, this is your statement, at least it's stupid .. For we already heard this many times in the early 90's.: ".. Let them go anywhere, with anyone. In general, let them do what they want. Only, so that they don’t crawl back and scream, how poor they are, etc., etc. .. "What did this lead to? To the collapse of the Soviet Union - a huge country, and to even greater hostility and fragmentation of peoples ... So here you are again making old, unsuccessful songs .. And what do you want to inspire anyone with? ..
            1. tomas.09
              tomas.09 31 August 2013 21: 01 New
              +8
              I meant that every nation has the right to self-determination. The Ukrainian people decided in their choice with whom and where. Of course you can say that it was not the people who decided, but the ruling and (or) ruling elites, but for today we have what we have. Ukraine seeks to join the EU in any way and now we are discussing it. You can again say that it’s not Ukraine at all, but the ruling elites, but that I don’t observe national unrest in (in) Ukraine. I wholeheartedly and heartily for the 3 nations to unite, and no matter what unites them in the end, if only not grief, but as history shows, only in great trouble our nations united and rebuffed all who were the instigators of these troubles.
            2. KCC
              KCC 1 September 2013 15: 38 New
              0
              My friend, how do you propose holding Ukraine and reacting to the quacks of the Ukrainian leadership. After all, a freebie on gas lasted for years and the result, when these unfulfilled tales were tired and said real things and instead of preference, immediately such a noise started that just hold on. So now, what is constantly on the path of the Ukrainian leadership, so chtoli, let the people in Ukraine figure it out for themselves what they want and if for an alliance with Russia, then we are two-handed FOR.
          3. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 1 September 2013 14: 34 New
            +2
            Quote: tomas.09
            Tired of these graters about Ukraine. Let them go anywhere, with anyone.
            Then they will dump Dagestan with Tatarstan. Following Yakutia with Tuva. So it is possible from one Moscow region. to stay, and boldly say - there is nowhere to RETURN, BEHIND MOSCOW. Local and momentary opinion.
  • FATEMOGAN
    FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 19: 44 New
    21
    Quote: tomas.09
    And the Ukrainian authorities are between two fires. The Ukrainian authorities are in Zh.ope !!!


    The Ukrainian authorities, like the Ukrainian oligarchs, are in chocolate and do not hide it, they are a simple nation, which they drive under the baseboard, is in a difficult situation. That's what Yanukovych and his entire team do not take into account that the Russian rebellion is terrible, if they bring the people and he rises, their stupid boshki will fly one of the first.

    How rejoices abroad
    And howls of happiness howling,
    That we knelt
    And we knelt
    Pray before the fight
  • 2vladim2
    2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 36 New
    +9
    Correctly said. It seems to me that Kiev does not know what it is doing. And when it wakes up, it will be too late. I also agree that there is no statehood in the full sense of the word. Otherwise, they wouldn’t do that. But ordinary people may be held hostage. Yes, he has already appeared.
  • mole
    mole 31 August 2013 19: 41 New
    +3
    This is not Ukraine came up, this is Kiev (just like Moscow) came up ... Sadness! And all the consequences, UNA raised the mane, local so-called "capitalists" (aligarchs) losing their profits, politicians, the so-called "political prostitutes" defend their independence etc. etc. Unfortunately, only power is understood.
  • rolik
    rolik 1 September 2013 01: 45 New
    +3
    Quote: svp67
    With ANY development of events Ukraine will feel like a LOSER

    Categorically correct, only this article says:
    - Russia can be a strong state and dominate the post-Soviet space only in alliance with Ukraine.
    I would swap Russia and Ukraine.
    We can become strong and self-sufficient even without Ukraine. Ukraine will never be strong and self-sufficient without Russia.
    That's just to unite, personally to me, I do not want at all .... nor how.
    As they say - once lied, if you change this phrase.
    - Once betraying.
    You can not trust such "friends." At any time convenient for them, they will betray and sell.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 1 September 2013 01: 52 New
      +6
      Quote: rolik
      Quote: svp67
      With ANY development of events Ukraine will feel like a LOSER
      Categorically correct, only this article says:

      Too fraught, well, swinging on a swing for a very long time - you can get very hurt when the "lines" are frayed.
    2. FATEMOGAN
      FATEMOGAN 1 September 2013 08: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: rolik
      - Once betrayed. You can not trust such "friends." At any time convenient for them, they will betray and sell.


      What friends are you talking about, they cut off the Russians from their homeland and left them to their own devices - survive as you can, or how did you attach the Crimea to it so that some other people began to live there right away? We were all thrown by a hunchbacked man with Yeltsin, the country was torn apart, the People were torn, and they are trying to quarrel, they should be together, only together !!! Let me remind you, in a referendum 86 percent of the inhabitants of Ukraine spoke for the integrity of the Union, no one voluntarily separated - they torn it by force. Like Crimea, which voted in a referendum to stay with Russia, there were 90 percent there.
      1. rolik
        rolik 1 September 2013 09: 41 New
        +3
        Quote: FATEMOGAN
        , Russians were cut off from their homeland and left to their own devices

        What cut off ??? seas, other continents ??? The border is common. And the fact that the language is now different, because after all, how much time has passed since the time of "cutting off", we got to the language. We didn’t see terrible demonstrations (we don’t consider Crimea - there is a separate song), two languages ​​coexist at the same time. Moreover, the Russian language is being squeezed out by all means. And the fact that a huge number of workers from Ukraine work in Russia is not taken into account. And for this they did not have to cross the ocean or go, like Athanasius Nikitin across three seas. Here is one country, here is another. A Ukrainian can easily move to live in Russia, Russian to Ukraine.
        Here the separation is not physical, but mental.
        At the beginning of the Union section, everyone remembers what happened ????
        I remember perfectly. I remember the screams, now independent, about how they would be a super-duper without the eternal drunk Ivan. Well, how do you live ???? And forever "drunk and lazy Vanya" gets to his feet, comes to his senses and straightens his shoulders. At the same time, she does not feel any envy of neighbors, on the contrary, she suggests working together. In response, the words are pouring in that he is again to blame for all the troubles of the hard-working and hard-working neighbors. Blame everything and always. Because, as always, there must be a guilty person in everything, otherwise how can one justify one's complete fiasco in the field of independence. At the same time, hardworking neighbors are always willing to take something from this Vanka (and better for thanks), only quietly so that others will not notice. They will begin to accuse their dearly beloved homeland of cooperation and good relations with the invaders and rapists.
    3. BotaniQ
      BotaniQ 1 September 2013 22: 12 New
      0
      Quote: rolik
      - Once betraying.
      You can not trust such "friends." At any time convenient for them, they will betray and sell.


      Do not smear all with one paint. Most would now have entered the Russian troops in Ukraine, would have met them with flowers. And when the state itself does not have order and support for the Russians, what do you want to offer others?
  • 755962
    755962 1 September 2013 16: 52 New
    +1
    The European Parliament wants to urgently sign an association agreement with Ukraine - next week

    The revitalization of Russia makes Europeans rush to enslave Ukraine - large fish should not get off the hook
  • vkrav
    vkrav 31 August 2013 15: 56 New
    20
    What the hell ??? What irrevocability ??? The border of the irreversible loss of scientific schools and technologies was crossed by Ukraine at the end of the last century ...
  • Zhenya
    Zhenya 31 August 2013 15: 57 New
    +6
    Oh, stop it already, stop procrastinating Ukraine, step on the rake, understand and everything will return to square one.
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 31 August 2013 16: 07 New
      14
      Yeah, so they will let her out of the European Union! Something else has not been released.
      In general, all this euro-sauvarukha is an ordinary financial pyramid. The more suckers below - better to those who are above.

      Who is above, I think, is so clear.
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 16: 48 New
        14
        Quote: Banshee
        Yeah, so they will let her out of the European Union! Something else has not been released.


        They do not let go from the European Union, so no one is going to take her there, Europe has officially announced that in the next 20 years it does not see Ukraine in the European Union. Now there will be only accession to the FTA and that’s all, it’s impossible to even call the EU a banana, because it’s the FTA itself, the European Union has signed with a host of states, such as Egypt, Chile, etc., and so on, which, for obvious reasons, will never join the European Union, as well as Ukraine itself.

        1. APASUS
          APASUS 31 August 2013 20: 29 New
          +4
          Quote: FATEMOGAN
          They don’t let out of the European Union, so no one is going to take her there, e

          Yes requirements with the transfer of all railway tracks to European standards - it sounds like a fantasy!
          That’s why I’m sure that this document was not read at all by Ukraine. So to say
          "Hunt is more than captivity!"
          1. FATEMOGAN
            FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 21: 02 New
            +3
            Quote: APASUS
            Yes, the requirements with shifting all railway tracks to European standards - it sounds like science fiction! That's why I’m sure that this document was not read from Ukraine at all. So to say "Hunt is more than bondage!"


            I think they read, otherwise for almost a year after the initialing of the agreement with the EU, that is, approval of the main essence of the document, they did not show it to anyone, but pulled it into the light almost under the summit in Vilnius. They all knew bastards, probably only were afraid of buzes, that’s why they kept him to the last, it’s not spring-summer when people have time to fool him and challenge him and maybe even claim him. Autumn, people who go to work, some children go to school, some go to school, most people are busy with personal matters, they are not up to an agreement.
            1. densh
              densh 31 August 2013 22: 18 New
              +3
              So it is. Ordinary citizens don’t even know what an FTA is and with what
              eat it.
          2. tomas.09
            tomas.09 31 August 2013 22: 01 New
            +3
            The corpse of Ukraine will be taken out of the EU !!! Revive the client as always in Russia !!!
      2. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 31 August 2013 18: 27 New
        +8
        Quote: Banshee
        Yeah, so they will let her out of the European Union! Something else has not been released

        That's right !!!
        The entrance to the EU is a half-ruble.
        There isn’t enough pennies ...
      3. Makhno
        Makhno 31 August 2013 22: 06 New
        -1
        Quote: Banshee
        Yeah, so they will let her out of the European Union! Something else has not been released

        I did not know that someone was trying to leave the EU, but they did not give him. laughing
  • Banshee
    Banshee 31 August 2013 15: 58 New
    21
    It would be a natural result.
    Everything went to this, so I just allow myself a couple of slander.

    "Prime Minister of Ukraine Mykola Azarov reiterated that Kiev is ready to look for some formats of participation in the Customs Union."

    This, excuse me, as "being slightly pregnant", nothing more.

    "if the Ukrainians really leave in association with the EU, Moscow will be forced to take some tough measures, primarily from a political point of view."

    And, in fact, what was expected? Lower gas prices? Increases in imports of, say, cheese (for high-grade euros)? Yes, the stump is clear that the GDP will not just begin to tighten the nuts, but with a crunch and rattle. So that the rest of the hesitant (and there are ones) were discouraged and to throw food for understanding.

    In general, the situation is still yes. remembered an old bearded joke about two Georgians: “Listen, Vano, I don’t understand something, are you my friend or that bear?”

    And the result I will say one thing. As my foreman in the army used to say, in every situation, the time comes when you need to either empty the toilet. Here is an opinion.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 31 August 2013 16: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: Banshee
      And, in fact, what was expected? Lower gas prices? Increases in imports of, say, cheese (for high-grade euros)? Yes, the stump is clear that the GDP will not just begin to tighten the nuts, but with a crunch and rattle. So that the rest hesitant (and there are such) it was disgraceful and to throw food for thought.

      As for the vacillating and notorious summit in particular:
      "First and foremost: it is about signing the Association Agreement between Ukraine and the European Union with the creation of an in-depth and comprehensive free trade zone.
      Second: the EU seeks to complete negotiations on association agreements, including an FTA with Moldova, Georgia and Armenia, and also initialed documents during the summit.
      The third paragraph indicates the further promotion of the visa dialogue with partners in general, namely, the signing during the Vilnius Summit of agreements on visa facilitation, including readmission agreements, with Armenia and Azerbaijan.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 31 August 2013 17: 32 New
        +6
        Quote: Corneli
        Second: the EU seeks to complete negotiations on association agreements, including the FTA with Moldova, Georgia and Armenia, as well as to initial documents during the summit.

        Perhaps it will be possible to end on this, they will not see anything from this EU. Russia has enough levers who will not understand, they will explain to it.
        1. S-200
          S-200 31 August 2013 17: 58 New
          +2
          and here we only mourned the Latvian-European integration yesterday .... and now, Ukraine is next in turn!
        2. revnagan
          revnagan 31 August 2013 23: 35 New
          +4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Perhaps it will be possible to end on this, they will not see anything from this EU. Russia has enough levers who will not understand, they will explain to it.

          You know, there is such a concept-provocation in medicine. This is to clearly identify and understand what a person is sick with, they allow diseases to unfold in full, to prove themselves. Maybe you should let Ukraine go, so that after tasting all the delights of a gay European life, ordinary people scratch their chuprin and sigh, they said in their hearts- "Wow, that’s it, from the very beginning Yanek cheated, well, let her go back to Europe." And then let him try not to return it. In general, he knows what to do and how best ... Politicians miscalculate in any way, but again we will be stupid. And what’s the most offensive - we understand everything, we see everything, but we can’t do anything.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 16 New
            +4
            Quote: revnagan
            Maybe you should let Ukraine go

            For, with two hands. Enterprises will begin to close, the people will stand on their hind legs. Only there is one problem, they will look for who is to blame, but they will find the culprit quickly and he is in Moscow, but not in Brussels or Kiev.
  • bootlegger
    bootlegger 31 August 2013 16: 01 New
    13
    If Kiev is allowed to partially enter the CU, then Russia's position will not just weaken.
    In fact, this will mean that we, in part, have signed this idiotic association.
    We just get an uncontrolled shaft of EU goods to us.
    So it’s not clear what Ukraine is counting on.
    This is not even at random, but on the idiocy of a partner.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 August 2013 17: 33 New
      +6
      Quote: bootlegger
      If Kiev is allowed to partially enter the CU, then Russia's position will not just weaken.

      Russia will look like a sucker, and therefore this will not happen. Otherwise, everyone will rush to Brussels.
  • amp
    amp 31 August 2013 16: 02 New
    11
    Here the question is not only economic, but also geopolitical. Russia can be a strong state and dominate the post-Soviet space only in alliance with Ukraine.

    As I understand it, a comrade from Ukraine, which is why he says such nonsense. Of course, Russia can dominate the post-Soviet space and be a strong state without Ukraine. An example is the war of Russia against Georgia, when Ukraine was on the moan of Georgia and Russia clearly proved that it is a strong state.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 31 August 2013 17: 25 New
      +8
      Quote: amp
      An example is the war of Russia against Georgia, when Ukraine was on the moan of Georgia and Russia clearly proved that it is a strong state.

      A very strange example ...
      1. Ukraine fought against Russia? Applied any economic sanctions? Or what does this “side” consist in, is Yusch kum Sahaki?)
      2. Do you consider Georgia a “strong” country?) Or victory over it with something incredible?
    2. smile
      smile 31 August 2013 20: 08 New
      +4
      amp
      Phrase:
      "Russia can be a strong state and dominate the post-Soviet space only in alliance with Ukraine."
      simply spioneren Ukrainian comrade Brzezinski. Sbyshek expressed it in the book "The Great Chessboard." Well, it was necessary for a friend to flaunt a beautiful phrase ... only tactfully kept silent about authorship ... :)))
      True, Sbyshek spoke not of a "strong state", but of a "Superpower" ...
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 31 August 2013 16: 03 New
    11
    Therefore, the Ukrainian authorities between the two fires, but still at the moment are moving towards Europe.

    people are sorry. look at the original "members" of Europe-the Baltic states. honey in Europe is far from spread for everyone, and Ukraine will not be an exception. she won’t get a honey either, but European shit ...
    1. FATEMOGAN
      FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 17: 42 New
      10
      Quote: andrei332809
      people are sorry. look at the original "members" of Europe-the Baltic states. honey in Europe is far from spread for everyone, and Ukraine will not be an exception. she won’t get a honey either, but European shit ...


      And as for the consequences, there will most likely be a caput of industry and the transformation of Ukraine into an EU appendage. Suppose my comrades from Ukraine excuse me, but I thought we had a stupid government in the Baltic states, but the Ukrainian mine, this is the height of insanity - Lithuania joined the EU and destroyed its industry (for example, in Vilnius there was strong microelectronics that produced components for the first , still a Soviet super computer, I know about this as they say firsthand) but she receives at least some handouts in the form of development grants. By joining only the FTZ, Ukraine will destroy industry, while not receiving any assistance from the EU. Seeing the example of the EU before my eyes, I judge by what happened to Lithuania, it becomes humanly sorry for ordinary people in Ukraine who still believe in a European paradise. The film is about the collapse of industry in eastern Europe.

      1. smile
        smile 31 August 2013 20: 22 New
        +7
        FATEMOGAN
        Greetings, colleague!
        I will supplement in Lithuania. Destroyed no worse than carpet bombing the entire shipbuilding and ship repair industry of Lithuania - in Klaipeda. The powerful fishing fleet and the fishing industry were destroyed, simply the EU did not allocate quotas, and all ... Khan destroyed the nuclear power plant in Ignalina, and it will soon turn from an active seller of electricity into its buyer, this greatly contributed to its energy security ... :)) ) Now the Lithuanians are languidly protesting against the construction of a nuclear power plant in Kaliningrad, and someone from their government (forgot who) is bleating something about asking someone for money to build a new nuclear power plant ... :)))
        In Pikul’s novel "Hard Labor" there is such a ditty:

        Father is trading in the market.

        Mother drives moonshine.

        The wife walks on the boulevard.

        Money rod from all sides.

        She perfectly conveys the state of the Baltic states ... as well as the opera in which the leadership of Ukraine seeks to drive her country .... I feel sorry for people.
        1. FATEMOGAN
          FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 21: 11 New
          +4
          Quote: smile
          She perfectly conveys the state of the Baltic states ... as well as the opera in which the leadership of Ukraine seeks to drive her country .... I feel sorry for people.


          I agree with you hi I can even supplement the courts, as the navigator himself. Local yelled that fishing vessels are unprofitable and stupid, Icelanders rented a vessel for a year and from the earned money bought the entire vessel and so on with the remaining 6. The Icelander began with a small, old trough, managed to buy for nothing - a million or two each ship, in total, it seems like they bought a ship for a dozen, developed the company over 10 years. They sold it for 60 million, and this despite the fact that each vessel brought an average monthly income of 1,5-2 million dollars of net income. That's how ships are unprofitable.
          1. smile
            smile 31 August 2013 21: 32 New
            +1
            FATEMOGAN
            Wow ... are you by any chance not from Klaipeda? My mother lives there near the Red Barracks ... my stepfather used to go to Africa ... and the brother of the crab captures either an Irish uncle or a Norwegian one ...
            1. FATEMOGAN
              FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 22: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: smile
              Wow ... are you by any chance not from Klaipeda? My mother lives there near the Red Barracks.


              Yes, from Klaipeda, and the red barracks ennobled, demolished the walls, laid paths and planted grass on the ground - it became beautiful.
              1. smile
                smile 31 August 2013 23: 01 New
                +3
                FATEMOGAN
                Abaldet !!!!! I know how they look now-Mom lives a hundred meters in the direction of the viaduct, and I often come from Kaliningrad .... Great, fellow countryman !!!!!!!! I lived there for 17 years, to the university .... :))) God you are mine ..... the world really has the form of a suitcase ... yeah, it seems like nothing special happened. but for some reason my heart warmed .... :)))
                1. FATEMOGAN
                  FATEMOGAN 1 September 2013 00: 40 New
                  +4
                  Wow, countryman !!! I really was not born in Klaipeda, in the Kuban, but I lived most of my life in Klaipeda. I look at the school they said the truth - the earth is round laughing
                  Respectfully yours, Pavel hi
                  1. smile
                    smile 1 September 2013 03: 35 New
                    +3
                    FATEMOGAN
                    Pavel, what difference does it make where you were born! I went there a year (age), my grandfather came out of Germany, and my mother came with me under my arm. You live in a city that I consider to be my family .... everything else does not matter .... And I do not just respect you (but we have similar views, I noticed), I’m just ready to kiss you ... .right to the screen ...:)))) ... Okay ... but agree, it's like meeting a fellow countryman in the Army .... :)))) especially since there are very few Klaipedans ... especially Russian Klaipedans ... and here, on this site-in general-a miracle-some kind of freelance 205 thousandth town on the site for one and a half hundred million ... and God knows how many foreigners ... I’m here and a Kaliningrader (and in the region 800 thousand) I met only one ... and then, unfortunately, disappeared somewhere: ((((.... Okay ... in general, I am very happy! ... The screen from the snot wiped, but the mood was remained upbeat ... :)))
                    1. FATEMOGAN
                      FATEMOGAN 2 September 2013 00: 25 New
                      +2
                      Good day, Vladimir. Yes, it’s unexpectedly nice to meet on the forum, a person from his hometown, and even less so small as Klaipeda. So, mathematically, the chance is small by any means, the more pleasant it is to find out that there are like-minded people, as I look, not only in virtual space, but also in real life. It reminds me of my other story, how I once met a sidekick in the port of Las Palmas, whom I had not seen for 300 years, in a word round-surprised eyes :)) and a lot of positive emotions. I don’t often visit Klaipeda, mainly between the sea and Moscow, but I would think it would be great to talk in real life.
      2. Nikaviz
        Nikaviz 1 September 2013 15: 25 New
        0
        There are no limits ... obscurantism .. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Panikovsky
    Panikovsky 31 August 2013 16: 18 New
    11
    What the hell is the hell, and what the hell is the return? Ukraine has long been living off external loans, which it is time to repay, and in your pocket there is a louse in your lasso. hooliganism from the Verkhovna Rada has not yet been declared, but the people are already living according to the laws, guys, we survive, who can!
  • bilgesez
    bilgesez 31 August 2013 16: 20 New
    -15
    It’s too late to drink Borjomi, instead of having Asians kiss their asses, it was necessary to promote rapprochement with Ukraine. There were opportunities, but he abused his own, even to some extent, with disdain. I thought I’m not going anywhere, but I haven’t finished it. Soon, Belarus will spit on him and, accordingly, on rapprochement with Russia.
    1. amp
      amp 31 August 2013 16: 25 New
      15
      and Ukraine is not enough .... kissed, right?
      and who sells gas for 50 bucks to them for 15 years?
      and what is the result? Orange revolution and anti-Russian hysteria.

      let them go, step on the rake, and break their forehead.
      themselves will come back.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 31 August 2013 16: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: amp
        and who sells gas for 50 bucks to them for 15 years?

        In general, 12 out of these 15 gas cost much) The price of gas (oil) began to grow after the crisis / default of 97-98. (then there was a price minimum of 11 cu per barrel). By 2000, OPEC agreed to reduce production and were able to raise the price to $ 30 (as in 91). Then again there was a slight decline ... before the Iraq war in 2003. But after it, the price began to grow rapidly. Tymoshenchikha’s first contract was in 2005, when the price of oil was around 56-57 cu per barrel. So the "gas by the write" almost all the time, and these same "write" were worth it.
        1. Igor
          Igor 31 August 2013 18: 54 New
          +5
          Quote: Corneli
          Quote: amp
          and who sells gas for 50 bucks to them for 15 years?

          In general, 12 out of these 15 gas cost much) The price of gas (oil) began to grow after the crisis / default of 97-98. (then there was a price minimum of 11 cu per barrel). By 2000, OPEC agreed to reduce production and were able to raise the price to $ 30 (as in 91). Then again there was a slight decline ... before the Iraq war in 2003. But after it, the price began to grow rapidly. Tymoshenchikha’s first contract was in 2005, when the price of oil was around 56-57 cu per barrel. So the "gas by the write" almost all the time, and these same "write" were worth it.


          But there is no need to drive here, then in the 90s gas was not tied to oil prices (as it is now) and Europe bought it for 150-170 cu, and you bought it just 50 and sold it to Europe for 150 already. wink
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 31 August 2013 19: 01 New
            -1
            Quote: Igorek
            But there is no need to drive here, then in the 90s gas was not tied to oil prices (as it is now) and Europe bought it for 150-170 cu, and you bought it just 50 and sold it to Europe for 150 already. wink

            Proofs in the studio
            1. igor67
              igor67 31 August 2013 19: 08 New
              +4
              Quote: Corneli
              Quote: Igorek
              But there is no need to drive here, then in the 90s gas was not tied to oil prices (as it is now) and Europe bought it for 150-170 cu, and you bought it just 50 and sold it to Europe for 150 already. wink

              Proofs in the studio

              Maybe someone will still explain to me about gas. He lived in Ukraine for 33 years, we had natural gas but from the Akhtyrskoye field, there are also others in Ukraine, and the whole problem is the transit gas that Russia paid to Ukraine but Tymoshenko as the head of Naftogaz transferred to the West at higher prices, plus welded again for sale, or am I wrong?
              1. Corneli
                Corneli 31 August 2013 19: 22 New
                0
                Quote: igor67
                Tymoshenko as head of Naftogaz transferred to the West at higher prices

                Just not gas, but electric energy (respectively Ukrainian) and not Naftogaz UESU (smuggling there seems to be unaccounted gas inside the country). Gas graters, in general a dark forest ... would describe the sequence, but time to leave, so another time (
              2. Gecko
                Gecko 31 August 2013 19: 45 New
                +6
                Almost all gas received by Ukraine at 40 cu (in Russia, he was 48 cu) oligarchs sold abroad at market prices, having welded on this, they sharpened skis in the EU.
                And how does Russia feel after that? That's right, she feels that she was raped for her own money. Therefore, recently they began to talk with Ukraine quite harshly.
                Recently, Yanukovych hinted about the loss of 20 billion dollars from the fact that Russia began to sell at market prices, and Russia had previously lost 15-60 billion dollars in 90 years !!!
                1. Corneli
                  Corneli 31 August 2013 22: 45 New
                  -3
                  Quote: gecko
                  Almost all gas received by Ukraine at 40 cu (in Russia, he was 48 cu) oligarchs sold abroad at market prices, having welded on this, they sharpened skis in the EU.

                  "Almost all" - how much? In Ukraine, even a couple remained?) And again, I do not see any proofs or facts, just emotions.
                  Quote: gecko
                  And how does Russia feel after that? That's right, she feels that she was raped for her own money. Therefore, recently they began to talk with Ukraine quite harshly.

                  The events you mentioned took place BEFORE 2005. Right now we have 2013 and it’s “especially tough” that it has just begun in the last couple of years. where is the logic?
                  Quote: gecko
                  Recently, Yanukovych hinted about the loss of 20 billion dollars from the fact that Russia began to sell at market prices, and Russia had previously lost 15-60 billion dollars in 90 years !!!

                  Figure 60-90 billion. Where? Write how much gas was delivered, at what price and how much was stolen. Without any evidence, it’s just “grandma on the bench said.” and a modest spread of 30 billion fl. Of course delivers.
                  In general, less emotion and unverified numbers and more facts, please
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 1 September 2013 14: 59 New
        0
        Quote: amp
        and Ukraine is not enough .... kissed, right?
        and who sells gas for 50 bucks to them for 15 years?

        Germany sell gas cheaper.
    2. rolik
      rolik 1 September 2013 02: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: bilgesez
      it was necessary to promote rapprochement with Ukraine.

      A reasonable question arises ... WHY DO WE HAVE TO PROMOTE AN APPROACH TO UKRAINE. And Ukraine, what a beautiful virgin ???? WE SHOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING UKRAINE to run after it. Ukraine already had a box full of gifts during the cutting of the Union with three drunken fucked .... So, stop boring already, you’re used to having to run after them, but wipe your snot. Have chosen independence, so be independent. And then they got used to it -Russia should have been .... shouldn't and never was.
  • regsSSSR
    regsSSSR 31 August 2013 16: 25 New
    +4
    if you enter the EU then with the Crimea, Ukraine, for any, has to say goodbye here without options! and then something I don’t want to later hear speeches about what (and the Russian fleet does something in our Europe) belay)
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz 31 August 2013 18: 35 New
      0
      Quote: regressSSSR
      if you enter the EU then with the Crimea, Ukraine, for any, has to say goodbye here without options!

      And how to say goodbye. Your options for events hi
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 31 August 2013 18: 49 New
        -4
        Quote: Yeraz
        And how to say goodbye. Your hi event options

        There are no options there, just another burst of "zombie" propaganda.
        1. regsSSSR
          regsSSSR 31 August 2013 20: 01 New
          +3
          and you would just keep quiet and not for me to write about (a zombie praganda) whose mark would make a cow who loves to sit on two chairs !!! dislike Russia go listen to the words of the tyanibok !! anyway, sooner or later you have to make a choice! There is no third!! I have much more to do with Crimea than in your life and in the EU and especially in NATO I don’t want to see him in any scenario, that's all I wanted to say !!!
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 31 August 2013 22: 53 New
            0
            Quote: regressSSSR
            and you would just keep quiet and not for me to write about (a zombie praganda) whose mark would make a cow who loves to sit on two chairs !!! dislike Russia go listen to the words of the tyanibok !!

            And why should I be silent? I am writing what I think is prohibited? and yet, find at least ONE my post where I wrote that I did not like Russia or Russians, or a post with my love for the Tyagnibok's speeches or for himself and his party. Look, search, however you will not find the embodiment of your fantasies in my account, because these are ordinary fools your invention)
            Quote: regressSSSR
            I have much more to do with Crimea than in your life and in the EU and especially in NATO I don’t want to see him in any scenario, that's all I wanted to say !!!

            I have nothing to do with life in the EU or NATO! Moreover, I'm generally for the TS) But mine, like your desire, play a small role, we will not decide. Only I admit this fact, and you fantasize about the capture of the Crimea, which is very unlikely.
            1. regsSSSR
              regsSSSR 1 September 2013 03: 34 New
              +2
              Corneli
              And why should I be silent? I am writing what I think is prohibited?


              Well, if you can write what you think is forbidden? or this privilege applies for some reason exclusively to YOU! possessing some kind of exceptional status and understanding of the whole situation as a whole! and the rest here are morons (zombie propaganda) your quote) SO SO it goes !!!

              and yet, find at least ONE my post where I wrote that I did not like Russia or Russians, or a post with my love for the Tyagnibok's speeches or for himself and his party. Look, search, however you will not find the embodiment of your fantasies in my account, because these are ordinary fools your invention


              let us suppose! I have completely unread all your comments! but you and I didn’t drink to the Brudershaft, and therefore you apparently also especially didn’t read my comments, and if not, you don’t write a fucking type (just another burst of “zombie” propaganda) and it’s really not answering me directly and crawling someone else’s comment! It’s at least ugly from your side!


              I have nothing to do with life in the EU or NATO! Moreover, I'm generally for the TS) But mine, like your desire, play a small role, we will not decide. Only I admit this fact, and you fantasize about the capture of the Crimea, which is very unlikely.


              well and good! here I agree and disagree with you at the same time, and to be exact, you can all the same simply (if you really are for the vehicle) at the right time when the time comes X just go out into the streets to bring people out and hold the entry to the vehicle, I believe you should at least nowadays infa och will listen to strong weapons! and as for the Crimea, you know, maybe I’m still fantasizing and thank God if it will be because there is no one to the war with Ukraine (except perhaps the United States) BUT! If integration with the EU continues and will gain momentum, then turn it all and it will be as I wrote! This is not a war. The EU and the EU are not a war of food supply. Not a war where to whom and when it will be good, but Kama is bad !! this is an ideological war, a war between the west and the east. The situation in the world is sharply aggravating. Everyone has to make a choice !! you are either with us or against the third one no longer otherwise it just will not work out the time for sitting on two chairs is coming to an end it's time to make a choice !!
              1. Corneli
                Corneli 1 September 2013 05: 03 New
                +2
                Quote: regressSSSR
                Well, if you can write what you think is forbidden? or this privilege applies for some reason exclusively to YOU!

                God forbid, everyone is allowed) it was an answer to your "and you just would be silent." And I didn’t write about the “morons” there, it’s not in my rules to break the rules of the forum (I’m kind of law-abiding, I try to follow the rules and laws))), but “zombie ...”, re-read your first post:
                "if they join the EU then with the Crimea Ukraine indulges in any say goodbye here no options! and then something I don’t want to later hear speeches about what (and the Russian fleet is doing something in Europe in Europe) "
                - In fact, a direct call-threat to war. Usually people who write like that so abruptly are fanatics (and fanatics are not “morons” by the way, they are just deceived and deceived people) who do not even think about the consequences of such a process. And a fanatic can only become with the help of propaganda. hence my initial conclusion.
                Quote: regressSSSR
                but you and I didn’t drink to the Brudershaft, and therefore you probably also especially didn’t read my comments, and if not, you don’t write a fucking type (just another break in of the “zombie” propaganda) and yes, I’m not answering me directly

                If you are an adequate person, which, in general, can be seen from this post, then I apologize. I described my initial reaction above. I just don’t like people who are “covered in propaganda”; as a rule, they don’t have an opinion, they just use slogans. Apparently I was mistaken, sorry again.
                Quote: regressSSSR
                we, to be exact, you can all the same simply (if you really are for the vehicle) at the right time when the time comes X just go out into the streets to bring people out and hold the entry to the vehicle, I believe you should at least listen to infa very strong weapons these days !

                For a serious impact, a charismatic leader and idea are needed. I don’t see those in Ukraine at the moment (about speaking for the TS or against the FTZ).
                And lying to me about the CU, why not) attempts to integrate with the EU, especially in light of the big problems with Russia, are silly for my country. The EU is in crisis, they did not need Ukraine even before it, and even more so. In addition, we have a different mentality, in many other values ​​(gay men running around Kiev certainly do not stick to me). Another question is the very approach of Russian politics. Seeing what all these scandals, wars and sanctions lead to, I just can not call this approach right. In many ways, it is the actions of the Russian government that impede rapprochement (I’m not talking about help, handouts and gas are "written"). It’s not respect for Ukraine as a sovereign country (on the forum and net of such posts I saw in vain where did this wave come from?) It will not be brought closer to the CU, as well as threats or trade embargoes with and without.
                1. regsSSSR
                  regsSSSR 1 September 2013 23: 21 New
                  0
                  good afternoon hi
                  Well, for starters on business!
                  Corneli
                  "if they enter the EU, then with the Crimea Ukraine will have to say goodbye to anyone here without any options!
                  - In fact, a direct call-threat to war.

                  yeah, completeness to you-
                  Get up the country, get up to the mortal battle! -
                  -this! Actually a direct call to war.
                  and the foregoing is only a statement of fact! what happens if...
                  (well, yes, I’ll send it (I will love it and love it) - emotionally exaggeratedly agree)
                  Corneli
                  For a serious impact, a charismatic leader and idea are needed. I do not see those in Ukraine at the moment.

                  Well, here I suppose the primary all the same IDEA itself and not a leader! as they say there would be an idea, but there is a leader! because the Natsik leader immediately found himself and even neodyne!
                  there is such a saying (if a company of more than 5 people from Russians is obeyed, then there is always a Jew who is trying to lead her smile )) - well this is a joke of humor
                  Corneli. Another question is the approach of Russian politics.

                  Well, what do you want Russia is doing everything it can to return Ukraine to the historical path and looking at the dishonesty of the allegory of the electorate and its constant flirting with the EU, it’s first and foremost; it’s just reflected in it, as always, for ordinary people
                  here I already wrote that this is not a war of where it will be better for Ukraine in the TS or the EU this is just the wrong way of posing the question! This war of ideologies, which way Ukraine will choose the path of Brussels, which means the treasured values ​​of Western economics and treasured alliances! or the historical path with Russia!
                  The option that Kars likes so much (which you, by the way, in our dispute with him, made me believe that you are working in tandem and are like-minded on this issue!) And, concurrently, the entire government of Ukraine on the seats on two chairs is coming to an end! (the time to throw stones has ended it is time to collect stones)! and it is up to you to decide this is your freedom! freedom of choice with all the ensuing consequences of a tago or other choice !!
                  but I suppose I want to ask about something else! -
                  Will joining the CU affect the sovereignty of Ukraine as a whole?
                  I will answer yes! most likely it will influence to the extent that Ukraine Belarus and Russia are a single people divided by chance and the overwhelming number of people in Russia (and I also hope Ukraine) still think so, and after entering the TS and abolishing the borders there will be a quick merger of fraternal peoples and of states (at least in the eastern part of Ukraine) and it is this circumstance that I believe is the most frightening of the ruling Ukraine electorate! (and if you do not share this point of view, I’m sorry since it’s a true historical truth and then you can only go to the EU, although I don’t think that there will be better!
                  Does the TC affect independence itself on the symbolism and language of Ukraine, it is unlikely that Ukraine will remain Ukraine, but many controversial issues and Crimea will be closed immediately (it’s also possible that Austria remains Austria even in the EU and is not a part of Geramnia in this version, this is simply unnecessary) in a world without borders of the historical Homeland of all of us where everyone will be free to choose what language to think and speak, where to study and work and where to travel across an immense common country, this is true freedom of choice! after all, in reality, those who are future-minded and blind are those who do not see this, especially in the fluttering recent events!
                2. regsSSSR
                  regsSSSR 1 September 2013 23: 46 New
                  +1
                  Corneli
                  And lying to me about the CU, why not) attempts to integrate with the EU, especially in light of the big problems with Russia, are silly for my country. The EU is in crisis, they did not need Ukraine even before it, and even more so. In addition, we have a different mentality, in many other values ​​(gay men running around Kiev certainly don’t stick to me)


                  If you are an adequate person, which, in general, can be seen from this post, then I apologize. I described my initial reaction above. I just don’t like people who are “covered in propaganda”; as a rule, they don’t have an opinion, they just use slogans. Apparently I was mistaken, sorry again.


                  Yes, you really can conduct a constructive dialogue! Well, if this is the case, then just do not understand why all the fuss started with us)) this is the rare case when truth is born in a dispute and if in general you are for friendship and unity of our peoples (even if only in the economic space) and I don’t ask for more! I will carefully read your comments! Yes, apologies are accepted and for my part I ask you to accept those for impudent statements addressed to you! And in my own rights, too, dare to open the opponent with a few exceptions, but I try to simply ignore such ones so as not to waste time hi
                  P.c.totally write failed to fit into the text))
      2. regsSSSR
        regsSSSR 31 August 2013 19: 42 New
        +6
        very simple! After all, the EU is only a prelude to the entry of Ukraine into NATO, an attempt to control it through a trade organization is the same and a no brainer! the geopolitical game of the big powers or do you really think that Europe really needs Ukraine in the EU, yes they even have a problem that they already can barely cope with, and then there was one free parasite! nevertheless, everything is done only in order to tear Ukraine away from Russia and how to pull it into NATO as quickly as possible, and so they, as a trading partner, surrendered to them! what do you think Russia will forever give everyone its territories and allow everyone to do anything with itself !! if Ukraine is all the same drawn into the EU, yes, Putin will tighten the screws to the fullest, and if after merging with the EU there will be at least the slightest hint of Ukraine’s entry into NATO and he will (no doubt) immediately after drawing it into the EU !! and in this vein further explain what will happen !! Do you really think that Russia in such a situation will just throw Crimea into NATO's paws !!
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 31 August 2013 23: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: regressSSSR
          very simple! After all, the EU is only a prelude to the entry of Ukraine into NATO, an attempt to control it through a trade organization is the same and a no brainer!

          Mdaa ... Since 2005, former President Yushchenko only talked about joining NATO and the EU and said that this was his main policy. So if only Ukraine wanted to see NATO, it would have been there a long time ago. Yanukovych, I do not observe the desire to intervene in NATO. But you’re thinking more about the capture of Crimea, maybe the desire will appear (if they start to think the same in the Kremlin)
          Quote: regressSSSR
          what do you think Russia will forever give everyone its territories and allow everyone to do anything with itself !!

          So I look at Chechnya and understand that in Russia it is only nominally ... as long as they give a lot of money, they will cease xs che. And China, Russia gave the islands after the collapse.
          Quote: regressSSSR
          if Ukraine is all the same drawn into the EU, yes, Putin will tighten the screws to the fullest, and if after merging with the EU there will be at least the slightest hint of Ukraine’s entry into NATO and he will (no doubt) immediately after drawing it into the EU !! and in this vein further explain what will happen !! Do you really think that Russia in such a situation will just throw Crimea into NATO's paws !!

          FTA and EU accession are two different things! As for the "hint" of joining NATO, this hint has already existed for 8 years !!! Wake up !!! and yet, you seriously think that REALLY WANTED the west and the Ukrainian authorities to merge with NATO, could Russia do something? To capture the Crimea? The territory of a sovereign state of NATO? And who would let Russia do this?
          1. regsSSSR
            regsSSSR 1 September 2013 04: 49 New
            +3
            Corneli


            I’ve written all of the above, I didn’t write to you but Yeraz, but if you want to answer, please hi

            Yes, everything is complicated with Chechnya Yes, I gave land to China, but there is also a difficult situation! BUT then you yourself (Ukraine) are not Chechnya and certainly not China and are gloomy please about this to some extent this is your land too, although you probably already do not sew such a thing, but in essence it doesn’t unite us too much! And just like that without a fight to merge Ukraine, someone does not get together and knowing how it all ends, Russia certainly reacts painfully even to the hint of Ukraine’s integration with the EU! and such a thing does not happen (Z STES) either here or there!

            and yet, you seriously think that REALLY WANTED the west and the Ukrainian authorities to merge with NATO, could Russia do something? To capture the Crimea? The territory of a sovereign state of NATO? And who would let Russia do this?


            I will answer this separately!

            YES I could! YES I would!
            for starters, and firstly, Russia would never, under any circumstances, allow this to simply happen and more than one person who considers himself a Russian would not even allow such a thought about a merger with NATO !! yes that Russia itself is the people of Ukraine well, or most of it would not allow this to happen !!! and about Crimea separately, do you really think that Crimea would have to be captured? to us, however, proctically, our land is being deprived of chance by chance to Ukraine YES WHAT !!! even if by some miracle you would have drunk in NATO, then the very next day the Crimea itself would have separated from you (AND THERE WILL BE RIGHT WITHOUT OPTIONS) !!!
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 1 September 2013 05: 28 New
              +1
              Quote: regressSSSR
              BUT then you yourself (Ukraine) are not Chechnya and certainly not China and are gloomy please about this to some extent this is your land too, although you probably already do not sew it, but in essence it does not change us too much!

              I do not gloat, there is nothing to rejoice about. Why and in response to what your words I wrote this, they themselves must understand.
              Quote: regressSSSR
              about Crimea separately

              In 94, the president of the then-so-called “sovereign state of the Republic of Crimea” was a certain Meshkov Yuri Alexandrovich. “At the same time, Meshkov’s political election platform was the course towards rapprochement with Russia, up to full accession. In particular, Yuri Meshkov intended to introduce the ruble zone in Crimea, enter into a military-political alliance with Russia, grant Crimean citizens Russian citizenship, introduce Moscow time, etc." At the same time, not only separatism, but also banditry flourished in the Crimea, and on such a scale that even put hair on end. Seeing this, a year later the central government of Ukraine adopted the act “On the abolition of the Constitution and some laws of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea”. In this connection, all previously adopted normative legal acts were abolished and the post of president of the Republic of Crimea was canceled. Meshkov fled to Russia (where he lives today). The leaders of criminality and the main separatists were liquidated and the impending "Ukrainian Chechnya" did not take place.
              Similar cases were in the Western world ... Romanians, Ruthenians and others, similarly raised their heads and began to "disconnect" ... again, the scourge of crime, gang warfare. the end is the same - liquidation and prisons.
              There were problems with prednisovremy, had fighters at the border to shoot from armored personnel carriers. But all this was done quietly, without kipish in the press and unrest among the people. Many Ukrainians still have no idea what such bombs were.
              And no NATO with the EU, then there was not. So, disconnecting is not always easy.
          2. yur
            yur 3 September 2013 00: 04 New
            +1
            And who do you think could prevent Russia from returning Crimea if it decided to do so? Do you really think that the European Union, NATO or the United States would have decided on a war threatening to develop into a nuclear one due to the fact that Russia is returning its lands. After all, everyone understands the true situation, because there are also not the last fools to sit there.
  • mithridate
    mithridate 31 August 2013 16: 31 New
    +3
    It seems that Ukraine has come a full paragraph. So everything goes according to the plan of the mattress covers
  • Druid
    Druid 31 August 2013 16: 33 New
    -10
    By joining the European Union, it will undoubtedly survive a recession, primarily initiated by Russia. Russia, ready to agree to cooperate with any EU state, will take ordinary revenge on any state, ex-USSR republic only because it has turned its back on the alliance with it or participation in its projects "collecting lands" of the former Russian Empire and the actual loss of sovereignty. Moscow wants to appoint presidents, to solve foreign policy issues, to spread rot because of this, the economy and its development both of its own and of satellite states, another and most importantly a modern base and basis for the unification of states in the economic, military, political sense, Russia unfortunately could not offer, only "I’m the boss you ...." and this is all against the background of blackmail by the threat of separatism, etc., the prerequisites for which were created by Russia itself. But the problem is that this does not suit the former republics of the USSR, the fragments of the Russian Empire, and the pragmatic policy of unification and protection of interests is alien to the Russian leadership, unless we talk about consolidating the interests or protecting the interests of the kings appointed and supported by Moscow.
    Ukrainians do not need to be afraid and waste time on fears, they need to modernize their state, management systems and eliminate the fifth column in the echelons of power. In the state system, the presence of pro-European or pro-Russian people is unacceptable, only pragmatists and pro-Ukrainian forces are needed. In order to strengthen independence, modernize the political system, society and relations in it, develop immunity and strengthen independence and independence, Ukraine is more correct to follow the path of European integration in the economic and political sense, at least. And if at the same time there will be attempts to sabotage from neighboring states, artificially forming protest and separatist sentiments, then she will probably have to consider the issue of integration into NATO in the near future, otherwise Ukraine may lose de facto independence.
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 31 August 2013 16: 42 New
      11
      Quote: Druid
      in the near future it will be necessary to consider the issue of integration into NATO, otherwise Ukraine may lose de facto independence.

      I do not quite understand ... enter into nature and become independent? a joke of humor, however.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 August 2013 17: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: Druid
      . Russia is ready to accept cooperation with any EU state, will take ordinary revenge on any state

      Revenge is the lot of the weak.
    3. svp67
      svp67 31 August 2013 17: 44 New
      +9
      Quote: Druid
      By joining the European Union, it will undoubtedly survive a recession, primarily initiated by Russia.
      Well, it has already begun ... NOW WHERE have entered yet, but Russia is ALREADY GUILTY.
      Let's agree once and for all, you are not small children and you should calculate all the consequences of your steps yourself, except for yourself and no one is to blame. Are you going to the EU - please, but be prepared for the fact that the border with Russia will become significantly “no more transparent”, because you will become part of a competing structure ... You agree to go to the Customs Union, you are welcome, but even here “milk rivers with muslin we don’t promise with shores "- get ready to work, work and work again - the" freebie "will end the next day after signing the relevant documents. So it was already in history - with the GDR, with the countries of the former socialist camp ... watch and learn ...
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 20: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: DruidUkraine joining the European Union will certainly survive a recession, primarily initiated by Russia. Well, it has already begun ... NOW WHERE have entered yet, but Russia is ALREADY GUILTY.


        It feels like Druid, speaking in hackneyed cliches, is simply trying to provoke a mutual bite.
      2. densh
        densh 31 August 2013 22: 49 New
        +3
        Standard option. When it is impossible to solve internal problems, an external
        ,, evil uncle, on whom you can blame everything. The funny thing is that then, perhaps, the EU will be blamed for everything.
      3. Tersky
        Tersky 1 September 2013 00: 23 New
        +3
        Quote: svp67
        Well, it has already begun ... NOW WHERE have entered yet, but Russia is ALREADY GUILTY.

        So why be surprised, there is someone to take an example from - the Poles, the gelding from old age Moscow will die.
    4. Sergh
      Sergh 31 August 2013 17: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: Druid
      pro-European presence unacceptable

      Quote: Druid
      strengthen independence and independence, Ukraine is better to follow the path of European integration

      This is from what newspaper these nonsense were rewritten to leak into the EU and NATO and remain independent? Will anyone allow you this?
      PPC, read and laughed, like, swallow the fish fatter and climb a bit higher ..., You already somehow decide, otherwise the Europeans will also be cheating, although they have been cheating on Ukraine for so long.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 26 New
        0
        Quote: Sergh

        This is from what newspaper these nonsense were rewritten to leak into the EU and NATO and remain independent?

        Serge, yes, just grass is good in some places laughing
      2. not good
        not good 1 September 2013 12: 39 New
        0
        With such desires, the jaws will be torn more quickly, and then ... they will rip the ass off ... The other day I returned from Ukraine (I was resting with a colleague), so the following was said at the expense of local politics (and comrade proxy of the deputy): ... what EU what kind of vehicle so far will not be diverted by each other, no one will be engaged in business, everyone deeply ... where and to what .... This is a characteristic of the Ukrainian parliament by an experienced person.
    5. Andrey57
      Andrey57 31 August 2013 18: 48 New
      +7
      And who, interestingly, is going to accept that Ukraine into the EU? In Brussels, they clearly said that in the next 20 years Ukraine will not see the EU see its ears, and the closed gates for 20 years for Ukrainian goods to the Customs Union will be completely finished off by the rest of the Ukrainian economy.
    6. smile
      smile 31 August 2013 20: 41 New
      +5
      Druid

      Attention . colleagues, the comrade druid has already announced that they will be yelling at the independents who have crammed Ukraine into the hole after it comes to a logical full .... say, collapse:
      Quote:
      "Ukraine joining the European Union will certainly survive a recession, primarily initiated by Russia ...
      ... Russia will take ordinary revenge ... "

      It turns out, men, we are already, a priori, ordinary to blame for everything, even the future troubles of Ukraine. to which the independent people pull her by her hair .... :))

      Dear Druid, thank you for betraying the bourgeois .. oh, Bandera secret ... but I was wondering how your politicians would justify themselves to their people ... :))) And look, and everything on the surface is played out proven Russia map is to blame for everything .... a masterpiece of strategy .... :)))
    7. Uralean
      Uralean 31 August 2013 21: 14 New
      +3
      Nuuu, this is a song ov ... What separation of the Ukrainian people from the Russian do you interpret? Is this not one people? Forcibly populated by Tsars from Russia? Or do you advocate for the resettlement of the brothers, and their opposition to each other? Well then do not forget Stories !!! When, at what time, whatever country in Europe, or the European Coalition (NATO, ANTANTA, NORTH, OR HANZIAN UNION, NAPOLEON, or THE EUROPEAN UNION UNDER Hitler’s command), could have a military influence on Russia? Brost, the right to scare us NATO .. ​​Georgians, too, hoped for the United States, and NATO, what did they get? And who stood up for them? In addition to verbal skirmishes and husks ..
    8. Tersky
      Tersky 1 September 2013 00: 20 New
      +3
      Quote: Druid
      then it will probably have to consider the issue of integration into NATO in the near future, otherwise Ukraine may lose de facto independence.

      Well, yes ... only after Georgia, how many years has it “joined” NATO?
  • stroporez
    stroporez 31 August 2013 16: 33 New
    +3
    Yanukovych, it seems like, the referendum was conceived ........ let's see, sho "brother" say .........
    1. FATEMOGAN
      FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 17: 13 New
      +4
      Quote: stroporez
      Yanukovych, it seems like, the referendum was conceived ........ let's see, sho "brother" say .........


      NEA didn’t conceive if you listen carefully to how he said cunningly - the President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych announced the need for a referendum on accession to the European Union or the Customs Union.
      That is, he plans a referendum when Ukraine is offered accession to the European Union. And then it will be necessary for Ukraine to decide on a referendum where it will go to the EU or the CU, and since in the next 20 years (according to the representative of the European Union) Ukraine will not be admitted to the EU, then even if there is a referendum, it will be through referendum .. .. years old. Yanukovych is trying again to score points before 2015, as he had previously promised to make Russian the second state, so now he’s talking about a referendum, he wants to hang a carrot in front of the people again.
    2. Hudo
      Hudo 31 August 2013 17: 14 New
      +4
      Quote: stroporez
      Yanukovych, it seems like a referendum conceived .....


      Too lazy to look for a link, in short, a referendum law was passed not so long ago. The essence of the law is that the process and results of a referendum can be steered without leaving Yanukovych’s office. So do not feed much of the plague on him (referendum). The GDP will be able to find a lever of influence on Yanukovych and, most importantly, use that lever without paying attention to the squeals of different riffraffers - it will be very good. No - the Russian Federation will have another Syria right at its side.
    3. Nike
      Nike 31 August 2013 17: 34 New
      -1
      Guys, I actually live on the border with Russia (300 meters). And I have always been for an alliance with Russia, but after constant srach towards my country, after all conceivable and not conceivable accusations against it, what should I vote for? Looking at all the tricks of Russia with the UNION STATE Belarus what can Ukraine expect from Russia? So I'm sorry, but I will vote (although whoever will listen to me there) for Europe. I think that you are not here forcing neighbors to be friends with you by force, but in the state ...
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 31 August 2013 17: 49 New
        0
        In how wonderfully you turned your rotten soul into beautiful words.
        1. Nike
          Nike 31 August 2013 18: 39 New
          -2
          But why is it rotten? because you didn’t please you? I didn’t lie about anything. Didn’t there be a squeal on the whole world of the muller that Ukraine is stealing gas? so sue, provide evidence, other than squealing anything? what did Roshen not please? no one found benzopyrene, but Russia did, but then quietly jumped from that bail (without apologizing, well, this is not a nobleman’s business), like it’s not written on the label. do you read them, labels? Well, bring the facts where I'm wrong, otherwise I crowed, and at least do not come dawn
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 31 August 2013 19: 09 New
            -1
            Quote: nike
            But why is it rotten? that you didn’t please?


            That rotten.

            Quote: nike
            Isn’t there a screech to the whole world of the muller that Ukraine is stealing gas?


            And that does not steal? Or is it not the money that was received during the fraud with gas that is the basis of the capital of Ukrainian oligarchs?


            Quote: nike
            what did Roshen not please?


            Yes, at least because the money from the sale of their products incl. and in Russia, the owner of Roshen, Jude Poroshenko, contains the media (for example, Channel 5 on TV) tirelessly shitting in the direction of Russia. For a long time it was necessary to put in place this presumptuous circumcised.

            Factors still toss, and crowed?
            1. Nike
              Nike 31 August 2013 20: 22 New
              +1
              You see how no arguments! And for gas. Gas supply metering devices were on the Russian side, in Sudzha, Ukrainians were not allowed to enter them, there were no metering devices at the entrance to Ukraine, only at the western border, how much gas did Gazprom put in its own words (would you believe?), and when the EU delivered metering devices to Ukraine on the eastern border, Gazprom shrieked and it turned out that Ukraine didn’t steal gas, but stole Gazprom didn’t deliver. So who is a thief? so that. And for Poroshenko..you’s a neighbor asking you where to spend his money? Go advise him strongly, he can wean him advise.
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 31 August 2013 20: 34 New
                +3
                Quote: nike
                You see how no arguments!

                Quote: nike
                Gas supply metering devices were on the Russian side, in Sudzha, Ukrainians were not allowed to access them

                I almost believed it. laughing One little doubt remained - where did the Ukrainian gas and oil printers come from?

                Quote: nike
                And for Poroshenko..you’s a neighbor asking you where to spend his money? Go advise him strongly, he can wean him advise.



                If a neighbor will sell me something, but for the money I’ve got to spoil, then first you should stop buying from him. And if you don’t get comfortable, clean the snout with high quality, so that you can see a little and feel the sinful ground under your feet.
                1. Nike
                  Nike 31 August 2013 21: 14 New
                  -2
                  Again only trawl. here’s a living example of the behavior of Russian politicians in your image: “clear the snout.” This is called “Forcing friendship”. No, dismiss such “friends”.
                  1. Hudo
                    Hudo 31 August 2013 21: 23 New
                    +2
                    Based on how you dodge the answers to directly posed questions, how you jump off a topic like a lice on a comb, it can be assumed that you are just a troll at work who does not believe in what he himself writes.
                    For this, I continue to discuss the discussion completely lost its meaning.
                  2. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 39 New
                    0
                    Quote: nike
                    "No, dismiss such" friends "

                    Nobody drags you as friends, much less you.
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 38 New
                +2
                Quote: nike
                And for gas. Gas supply metering devices were on the Russian side, in Sudzha, Ukrainians were not allowed to

                What are you lying to? There, on the EU side, the lads stood and calculated everything, where is their haz lost.
                Quote: nike
                ? Go advise him strongly, he can wean him advise.

                Yes, advise you to hell, politicians have you there, as they want, and you believe all promises with your mouth open and faith in a bright geo-geological future. Enough to feed Moscow on the way am laughing
          2. FATEMOGAN
            FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 20: 17 New
            +5
            Quote: nike
            what did Roshen not please? no one found benzopyrene, but Russia did, but then quietly jumped from that bail (without apologizing, well, this is not a nobleman’s business), like it’s not written on the label. do you read them, labels?


            I don’t know about the composition of the coffees, but it’s interesting, you think it’s right that Paroshenko, who was trading with Russia, got rich, sprinkles mud on Russia with his money from his TV channel and in every way lobby for the entry of Ukraine ZTS. Do you think that we should watch how they try to separate us as far as possible, for our money and do nothing?
          3. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: nike
            Isn’t there a screech to the whole world of the muller that Ukraine is stealing gas?

            But wasn’t theft? or Miller had to understand, forgive laughing
            Quote: nike
            so sue, provide evidence, other than squealing anything?

            But what is the point of suing you, you live, or rather you survive through loans. Yes, Russia knows how to forgive debts, like more than one country in the world.
            Quote: nike
            what did Roshen not please?

            We will eat our sweets, for you now the promising EU markets open-in a good way ...... happy bankruptcy laughing
      2. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 31 August 2013 18: 31 New
        +6
        Quote: nike
        So excuse me, but I will vote (although whoever will listen to me there) for Europe. I think that you are not here forcing the neighbors present to friendship with you by force,


        Nobody forces you to mine, you won’t be forcibly sweet, you just explained everything to Ukraine, from ordinary members of the forum to the President of Russia, the technical consequences of joining the FTA with the EU. No matter how cruel it may sound, but I believe that Ukraine should go to the ZTS, since they want it that way. Suppose now there will be a referendum on where Ukraine joins the WTA with the EU or the CU, the votes according to different figures will most likely differ slightly, but most likely the number of those who voted for the CU is 55 percent, no more, 45 percent for the EU. they are in the CU, and the situation in Ukraine will not improve much, after the policy that the authorities of Ukraine have been pursuing for 20 years, it will take a long time to get out of it. This is where conversations and gossip, dissatisfied citizens, will begin, that if it weren’t for another alliance with Russia, we would have definitely lived like in France, after a couple of years, the banderas will hold another referendum and after which the majority will most likely be for ZTS with the EU and that’s all, then fraternal Ukraine will be lost for a very long time, and will remain guilty, as always, Russia. And the second option is that Ukraine signs this ill-fated ZTS with the EU and in five years they will plunge into this, excuse me dermo, that they now consider it a crap life because of the machinations of Moscow they will see heaven on earth, all the people's anger for such a life for Bendera will collapse, and then it will be necessary to hold a referendum on Ukraine’s accession to the CU - the vast majority is guaranteed !!!! Now Ukraine reminds me of a child who is told not to go in bed - you’ll get burned, and he won’t believe it all the same, he won’t believe it.
      3. svp67
        svp67 31 August 2013 18: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: nike
        Looking at all the tricks of Russia with the UNION STATE Belarus what can Ukraine expect from Russia?
        Everything is much simpler - we simply don’t print news about the "European Srach" inside, but they already have the "Europeanization" technology they have already worked out. Honestly, it's a pity that you will leave, but apparently there is no other way now. I will cherish myself with the thought that everything already happened ... And Ukraine was a "part of Europe" as part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and I remember how it ended ...
      4. smile
        smile 31 August 2013 20: 52 New
        +5
        Nike
        It’s strange that you didn’t notice that our whole bait was directed not against Ukraine and the Ukrainians, but against the Russophobic-minded Bandera-Svidomo people and your rulers who want to get on the tree and don’t rip off the ass .... usually they don’t notice when they don’t they want to notice ... I hope this is not your case and you simply made a mistake ... and how can we feel bad about Ukrainians, if almost half have Ukrainian blood? And we boil, seeing us squabble Svidomity and their owners ....

        Well, as for the vote ... yes vote as you want ... in the end, this is your Homeland, your life ... if you want to "spite your mom’s ears to frostbite" —your right ....
      5. xan
        xan 31 August 2013 22: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: nike
        Guys, I actually live on the border with Russia (300 meters). And I have always been for an alliance with Russia, but after constant srach towards my country, after all conceivable and not conceivable accusations against it, what should I vote for? Looking at all the tricks of Russia with the UNION STATE Belarus what can Ukraine expect from Russia? So I'm sorry, but I will vote (although whoever will listen to me there) for Europe. I think that you are not here forcing neighbors to be friends with you by force, but in the state ...

        coercion by force is the removal of contentment. Now Ukraine for Russia is the same as Germany. And what did you want, bro, to have cheap gas and spit on Russia like under Yushchenko?
      6. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: nike
        So I'm sorry, but I will vote (although whoever will listen to me there) for Europe. I think that you are not here to force your neighbors to be friends with you, but in the state ...

        Yes, idle time, only then don’t say that Russia is to blame for everything, as you are doing now. Tired of listening already and tired of persuading you like a little kid
    4. densh
      densh 31 August 2013 22: 56 New
      +1
      Most likely, the issue of the referendum will be slowly released on the brakes.
      the results will calculate ,, as it should ,,.
  • rks5317
    rks5317 31 August 2013 16: 35 New
    18
    For those who wish to join the EU, after the accession of Latvia (where I live 36 years) to the EU, all 3 (!!!) sugar factories were closed in Latvia, the EU has enough sugar and everything else, and new competitors with cheaper products why ... So Ukraine will have to shut down ALL of its production facilities. Besides, it may be fat ... And after changing the custodian to a RUSSIAN patriot, Ukraine will receive the resources it needs to build new aircraft factories for the Russian Armed Forces. the resumption of the work of Nikolaev and Kherson ship plants (construction frigates and aircraft carriers for the Russian Navy). construction of factories for the production of buses, trolley buses, tractors, refrigerators, etc., by Belarusians. etc. for the markets of the CIS and other countries and many other real joint cooperative projects ... So do not go away from RUSSIAN.brothers-UKRAINIANS !!!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 August 2013 17: 44 New
      +4
      Quote: rks5317
      For those who wish to join the EU, after the accession of Latvia (where I live 36 years) to the EU, all 3 (!!!) sugar factories were closed in Latvia, the EU has enough sugar and everything else, and new competitors with cheaper products to what

      Oh, well, with this to Kars, though he went somewhere, but I think he’ll come read laughing
      1. Kars
        Kars 31 August 2013 19: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Oh, well, with this to Kars, though he went somewhere, but I think he’ll come read

        Who knows these Lithuanians. What did they make sugar from? What is the cost price? Maybe the workers wanted a big salary right away? You need to look. For now, the Baltic states are not starving.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 40 New
          +3
          Quote: Kars
          Who knows these Lithuanians. What did they make sugar from? What is the prime cost? Maybe the workers wanted a big salary right away? Look over

          Well, the person here is on the site, ask, take an interest wink
          1. Kars
            Kars 1 September 2013 12: 47 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Well, the person here is on the site, ask, take an interest

            Well, here on the site people with the wrong opinion usually do not sit around for a long time. Yes, and the comment shows that the person had no relation to sugar production.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 3 September 2013 07: 14 New
              +1
              Quote: Kars
              Well, here on the site people with the wrong opinion usually do not sit around for a long time

              I don’t know, your opinion is very different from mine, but you are still on the site. Okay, I’ll take it for a miracle laughing
              Quote: Kars
              Yes, and the commentary shows that a person had no relation to sugar production.

              You know Kars, I’m not related to the construction of submarines, but I know for sure that they began to produce them much less. You don’t have to be a specialist to see the factories that have closed.
        2. Allegedly
          Allegedly 4 September 2013 02: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          Balts do not seem to starve


          ... Today, in Estonia there has been such an economic and social situation that it is impossible to name otherwise than a humanitarian catastrophe. Tens of thousands of people, most of whom are Russians, are really starving. Thousands of Russian children are starving, hundreds of thousands of those in need !. And if poverty still reigns supreme in Tallinn, Pärnu, Tartu, then the outskirts of the republic, such as Võru County, Valga County, Ida-Virumaa and Narva, were struck by an epidemic of poverty, hunger and despair.

          ... Unfortunately, the hunger and poverty in Estonia hit the Russian population and their children the hardest. Since it is the Russian minority in this republic that is the most vulnerable, experiencing ethnic, economic and political discrimination, which the UN, AI and HRW recognized in their reports.
          It is impossible to look at the situation of people without tears. The number of suicides and his attempts, similar to this incident in Narva, a city with 95% of the Russian population abandoned by the government to their fate, has grown in an avalanche:

          On January 24 evening, a woman friend saw an ambulance and people around at the entrance of a house. In the course of the investigation, it turned out that a young woman was hanged in the apartment, and three strangled children, the youngest of whom was 5 months old, the other two were 6 and 4 years old. For a month, the woman lived without enough food to feed her children, asked her neighbors for help, looked for food in the trash ... Desperate, took this step ...

          How many Russian people will freeze without heating, die of hunger and commit suicide? And if in spring and summer, some of these people survived on pasture, picking berries, mushrooms, edible grass and leaves (this is real, I'm not exaggerating! (Estonia 2011: in some families, children eat only leaves from trees for lunch), then with the onset of the heating season does not even save them, and the preparations are not endless, the huge amounts that local monopolies require for housing and communal services drive people into debt that cannot be paid and families with children find themselves on the street or live without heating in 20 degree frosts. It forces the “ballast" to die. This is no longer hidden, but open genocide of the population. Who could believe that in the XNUMXst century there will be another Holodomor? But this is a terrible Estonian reality ...
        3. Allegedly
          Allegedly 4 September 2013 02: 30 New
          0
          Quote: Kars
          Who knows these Lithuanians.


          In Lithuania, a child can be taken from their parents for the following reasons: - Poor, Poor family. Lack of permanent job or one of the parents is unemployed, as well as a lack of money. Recall that in Lithuania from 1993-2012. and 12201 enterprises and 15 banks went bankrupt in Lithuania, and 127 thousand 650 people lost their jobs, and in Lithuania the able-bodied population emigrated from the country, and only pensioners and corrupt authorities remained, robbing their pensions ... So, the Lithuanian Labor Exchange reported that on May 1, 2013, 213,4 thousand unemployed were registered. There is no work and never will be when thieves and a schwaeger are in power. A gang of oligarch thieves who call themselves the “Union of Industrialists” ravaged the republic and robbed the people. Suppose that at least one newly arrived oligarch from the gang provides evidence to the court, how did he save up money to buy a plant with a salary of 120 Soviet rubles? Clear as day - stole from the people and the state. And now he longs for the Lithuanian people to work for a bloodsucker for free? Readers report: That is, in fact, our capitalist state - NOT PAYING normal salaries to people, filling the country with illegal immigrants. And most importantly, our Democratic state, - cutting production and closing plants - deliberately makes people - unemployed, beggars and absolutely - powerless people. - And now again, our people are to blame for the fact that they are POOR, and they have nothing to raise their children and therefore, with full awareness of their righteousness, the state Guardianship bodies are zealously fulfilling the demographic program - to reduce the birth rate in Lithuania and destroy the Family . - And now - the Guardianship Authorities, together with their faithful assistants, agents of the West, Human Rights Defenders - Juveniles - FASCIST, atrocious methods - WILL BE due to POVERTY and because of tax debts or rents - TO SELECT children from people. A recent survey showed that the number of hungry and malnourished people in Lithuania is growing, today there are about 400.000 people. Every year, schools close, especially in deserted villages; every September 1st, the number of students decreases by several thousand. 20 million people lived in Lithuania 3,8 years ago. Now, 2,8 million remains, and then only according to official data. Lithuania found itself on the verge of an economic, political and demographic disaster. This is already obvious to everyone. And only emigration, as well as loans from foreign financial institutions and the police state, support artificial respiration in such a system.
    2. yanus
      yanus 31 August 2013 19: 16 New
      0
      Quote: rks5317
      construction by Belarusians of factories for the production of buses, trolleybuses, tractors, refrigerators, etc. etc. for the markets of the CIS and other countries

      I haven’t laughed like that for a long time. Do you even know how things are with Belarusians? They don’t even hide it - all the figures on the official website of the Ministry of Economy of the Republic of Belarus. crying
  • bilgesez
    bilgesez 31 August 2013 16: 40 New
    -15
    So do not go away from RUSSIAN. Brothers-UKRAINIANS !!! We will survive Putin and restore together the Great Slavic state.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 31 August 2013 16: 44 New
    +9
    I am not special in Ukraine’s issues and always try not to express my insignificant opinion in such topics, I just read comments.

    But here the matter is completely different ..............

    Ukraine needs to understand that they can change the STYLE and SPIRIT of life.
    May lose their Ukrainian identity.

    There are very few hopes that integration with the European Union will bring benefits and benefits.
    This is just a union where there will be enrichment of one side and poverty of the other.
    The European Union is not going to attract new members if it is not beneficial for it.

    Just look at an example of other countries. What has been done to the economy of the Baltic, Greece and so on.
    Preferences, privileges and cheap loans for infrastructure are a drop in the ocean of tar, where the economy will strangle.
    Ukraine will produce what they say. Sell ​​at prices at which they will be told. They will not do anything that they will not be allowed.
    He said a little exaggerated, economists will correct, but the essence is this.
    The EU does not need anyone who does not bring them profit.

    We are Slavs. Nobody needs but themselves.
    And we will survive only TOGETHER. Today, one brother is strong and supports the rest, tomorrow - on the contrary.
    In our blood, trust each other. The mentality, damn it, is so ... "non-European."
    When is it finally that the average politicians will understand ...

    In any case, I wish Ukraine prosperity and peace, as well as Belarus and its Russia.
    1. stroporez
      stroporez 31 August 2013 18: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: Aleks tv
      Nobody needs but themselves.
      100% - it’s a pity it doesn’t reach everyone .........
    2. Maverick78
      Maverick78 31 August 2013 19: 45 New
      +4
      I will enlighten you slightly in the "issues" of Ukraine))
      Regarding EU integration. Nobody looks at what has become of the economy, they look at how much people get money and what they can afford. Here, the EU definitely wins (for the time being, the Poles, the Balts and others live by far better than us.) And the fact that Ukraine joins the EU will actually lose its independence remains on the surface, we must come to this by comparing a bunch of facts, i.e. read and watch a lot on this topic, look for information, etc. Naturally, few people are engaged in this. The West spends a lot of money on promoting accession to the EU and NATO, and not only money, but also competently compiles the information space. For example, Ukraine’s loss of proven oil and gas fields near Zmeinoy was presented as a victory for democracy and went so unnoticed that I personally was in complete shock.
      From Russia, on the contrary. Maybe Russia is taking some steps towards Ukraine, but we don’t see them here, but pressure and blackmail are pretty ordinary things.
      Hence the first conclusion - the vast majority of the population of Ukraine sees a beautiful picture from the west (what few people understand behind this picture), as well as promises (usually not confirmed by anything) and pressure from the east. Here, offhand, name at least one joint Russian-Ukrainian project that went without scandals and accusations and generally ended successfully.
      The second aspect. The Ukrainian elite, both the authorities and the opposition, are hostile to their people and to the state of Ukraine. They absolutely do not care what will happen to the independence of Ukraine, the main thing is that they remain in power, plus they will receive money for Ukraine’s entry into the above organizations. In case of rapprochement with Russia, it is possible (history confirms this) that Ukraine will be absorbed by Russia and they will lose power. Moscow’s pursuit of policies in the same vein as the past 20 years only confirms these concerns.
      And the most important thing. I am sure that 99 percent of visitors to this site from Ukraine are supporters of friendly relations with Russia (I have not yet seen a single explicit nationalist here). But even so, it’s very difficult, if not impossible, for everyone to find a common language in matters of Ukraine-Russia relations with the vast majority of Russian representatives of this site. If you can’t even agree with those who are not against friendship and cooperation, then maybe it’s worthwhile to review something in yourself?
      For all the negativity that results in the comments on my Motherland, I remain an adversary of the EU and NATO, and a supporter of friendship with Russia. But friendship is not one-way.
      1. Oleg Kharkov
        Oleg Kharkov 31 August 2013 21: 18 New
        +7
        I agree with the above. The fact that we are not on the way with Europe, apparently in Russia can not understand. You need to trade with everyone and on mutually beneficial conditions - this is only the pluses. I don’t see anything wrong with the fact that our planes (although they are Russian too, do it together) are sold to Latin America and Cuba. So joint high-tech projects are very good for science and industry. But for some reason, large joint projects with Russia come with scandals and mutual reproaches, but with the same Europe: we complete their missiles with the 3rd stage without problems and learn about everything after successful launches. Why are there a lot of problems with friendly Russia, but is everything normal with a neutral Europe? Probably, the reason is that they are very similar and we cannot agree on trifles because of the differences, and they are so different with Europe that we are not trying to understand, but are simply cooperating. When we finish building a nuclear fuel plant, nuclear power units together, put Ana in series - and fully resume space cooperation - then these will be real friendly steps (mutually beneficial, without reproaches, that someone owes something to someone, but simply mutually beneficial friendly steps). And when the An-70s are in demand among the Russian military and there are no analogues, when the Motor-Sich engines are ahead of the Russian generation, when the power plants of tanks and DZ, KAZ are superior to their analogs, but they refuse it, only from the principle of preventing Ukrainian industry from developing. Since developed Ukraine does not need Russia, developed Ukraine will not enter into an alliance with Russia on the conditions of Russia. Russia needs only a weak and impoverished Ukraine, which will be asked to join the union itself and will be graciously let in with a condescending smirk. At the moment, Russia does not accept equal partnerships - that means we will wait. But I believe that the union of our states is simply not the time ...
        1. xan
          xan 31 August 2013 23: 08 New
          0
          Quote: Oleg Kharkov
          Russia needs only a weak and impoverished Ukraine, which itself will be asking for an alliance and will be graciously let in with a condescending smirk

          What did you want, Kharkov citizen? Give Ukraine money, and then agree on an equal footing? Only true friends can do this, but what kind of friends you are, we saw under Yushchenko. And to depend on your electorate, we do not rank.
          Quote: Oleg Kharkov
          At the moment, Russia does not accept equal partnerships - that means we will wait.

          In this phrase you said everything about yourself. You're not serious to say the least.
          I just can not get it, the Ukrainians are constantly screaming about equality. Is Germany equal in the EU, say, to Ireland or Poland?
          1. Maverick78
            Maverick78 1 September 2013 22: 59 New
            -1
            If they try to talk with you from a position of strength - what will you do. Answer this question without reference to this article and its discussion.
            If not difficult, of course.
            1. xan
              xan 2 September 2013 16: 31 New
              +1
              Quote: Maverick78
              If they try to talk with you from a position of strength - what will you do. Answer this question without reference to this article and its discussion.
              If not difficult, of course.

              Do not pull personal on state
              There are a lot of sayings on this subject.
              - great states always behaved like bandits, small like prostitutes (Stanley Kubrick)
              - if people behaved like states in the international arena - everyone would have been in jail for a long time (one Anglo-Saxon).
              But the most important thing is that such a policy of states is recognized as the only right and possible from time immemorial. Bismarck: “It’s indecent for a state to have its own interests in the international arena”
              I remind Ukrainians and Belarusians - they are leading Russia with Russia in the international arena as they can, and no snot is recognized there. This is about the issue of equal rights of countries.
              I think I answered
          2. Allegedly
            Allegedly 4 September 2013 02: 20 New
            +1
            Quote: xan
            Is Germany equal in the EU, say, to Ireland or Poland?


            That's it!!! There cannot be an equal sign between the object and the subject of geopolitics (as well as macroeconomics). There can be no equality between the USA and Honduras !!!
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 43 New
          +3
          Quote: Oleg Kharkov
          And when the An-70s are in demand among the Russian military and they have no analogues, when the Motor-Sich engines are ahead of the Russian generation, when the power plants of tanks and DZ, KAZ are superior to the analogs, but they refuse it

          According to AN 70, Russia fulfilled all its obligations and invested a bunch of grandmas, and the result? The rest is the same.
          1. Oleg Kharkov
            Oleg Kharkov 1 September 2013 11: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            According to AN 70, Russia fulfilled all its obligations and invested a bunch of dibs, but what about the result?

            Yes, this is all. Ukraine constantly reduced the number of orders for the An-70, then decided to turn up altogether, right? Not Russia? Moreover, the motive is absolutely stunning - Ukraine is not in a hurry in the vehicle. For other projects, a similar situation. Product quality does not matter, the amount of money invested is also only politics.
          2. Maverick78
            Maverick78 1 September 2013 23: 27 New
            +2
            I followed the development of the situation with the AN-70. I now, of course, will not give dates and sources, too much time has passed, but several times I read on RUSSIAN sites about reducing orders for the AN-70, curtailing funding, etc. in response to disagreements with the government of Ukraine in gas, European integration and other issues, that is, not directly related to the aircraft program. This is how politicians (on both sides) practically ruined an excellent aircraft. But such projects, purely economic, without a political background, could just have improved relations between Ukraine and Russia, and, you see, there would have been no such “aspirations for European integration”
  • 128mgb
    128mgb 31 August 2013 16: 46 New
    +5
    What can I say, in the last couple of years all the TV channels of Ukraine have taken a sharply negative position in relation to Russia. And clearly, Catholicism is a more aggressive part of Christianity than Orthodoxy. And now in power in Ukraine is precisely the “zapadentsy. And those are mostly Uniate Catholics. Hence the negative rhetoric towards Russia, for them Orthodox Russia is the enemy. However, as for the "enlightened" Europe, let alone the advanced states, I will not say anything!
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 31 August 2013 17: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: 128mgb
      What can I say, in the last couple of years all the TV channels of Ukraine have taken a sharply negative position in relation to Russia. And clearly, Catholicism is a more aggressive part of Christianity than Orthodoxy. And now in power in Ukraine is precisely the “zapadentsy. And those are mostly Uniate Catholics. Hence the negative rhetoric towards Russia, for them Orthodox Russia is the enemy.

      Sorry, but you are awesomely mistaken.
      First of all, the Easterners are in power. since when did the PR, Yanukovych and the oligarchs of Donetsk become "zapadentsy"?)
      Secondly, given Yanukovych’s “turn” on Orthodox faith. You can look at the video .... they joke about this:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMAZFyskdx0
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 31 August 2013 17: 25 New
        +1
        Quote: Corneli
        Sorry, but you are awesomely mistaken.


        Corneli, if you carry nonsense, then carry it carefully, because it is COMPLETE!

        The staff of Ukrainian TV channels consists entirely of Galician creeps of koi gurgling on Austro-Polish-Romanian-Galician surzhik tirelessly pouring feces on Russia in every news release.

        Quote: Corneli
        since when did PR, Yanukovych and the oligarchs of Donetsk become "zapadentsy"?



        Yes, from those when they came to power. Playing on the contradictions between the Bandera-fascist West, coupled with the half-enraged center and the Southeast, it seeks ANY way to keep itself a feeding trough called "Ukraine".
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 31 August 2013 17: 37 New
          +2
          [quote = Hudo] The staff of Ukrainian TV channels consists entirely of Galician creeps koi gurgling on Austro-Polish-Romanian-Galician surzhik tirelessly pouring feces on Russia in every news release. [/ quote]
          The staff of Ukrainian TV channels consists of citizens of Ukraine (including Russian-speaking and ethnic Russians), they speak the state language (Ukrainian) or Russian (for example, on the Inter channel). And in pouring "feces" from the Ukrainian. channels there are worthy competitors - channels of Russia.
          quote = Hudo] Yes, from those when they came to power. Playing on the contradictions between the Bandera-fascist West, coupled with the half-oblivious center and the Southeast, it seeks ANY way to keep itself a feeding trough called "Ukraine." [/ Quote]
          Playing on "contradictions" does not make them "zapadentsami" or haters of the Orthodox faith. Fail Detected.
          [quote = Hudo] Hudo, if you carry nonsense, then carry it carefully, because it is COMPLETE! [/ quote]
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 31 August 2013 18: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Corneli
            The staff of Ukrainian TV channels consists of citizens of Ukraine (including Russian-speaking and ethnic Russians),


            Do not exaggerate the herd of mankurts without tribe and other renegades, authority only for people who have lost their self-esteem, like you. For example, here is the "ethnic Russian" Andrei Kulikov who directly stated that he did not intend to use the Russian language for him.

            You cannot post a photo of this bastard, admire it at the link http://file.liga.net/person/482-andrei-kylikov.html#
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 31 August 2013 18: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: Hudo
              For example, here’s the “ethnic Russian” Andrei Kulikov who directly stated that he did not intend to use the Russian language for him and use it.

              AND? You are an example of poking a producer, the Ukrainian BBC service with 10 years of experience, and starting from 92 years old?) A super example! And of course ALL (in your opinion) journalists and leading in Ukraine are)
              Quote: Hudo
              Do not exaggerate the herd of mankurts without the tribe and other renegades. for individuals who have lost their self-esteem, like you.

              You, as I understand it, is another “adequate” one ready to insult anyone who does not agree with his opinion. I think to my "self-esteem" you like the moon on foot)
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 31 August 2013 19: 16 New
                -4
                Quote: Corneli
                AND? You are an example of poking a producer, the Ukrainian BBC service with 10 years of experience, and starting from 92 years old?) A super example! And of course ALL (in your opinion) journalists and leading in Ukraine are)


                Am I to list all the freaks from Channel 5, TVI, as well as other guano throwers who used to compose odes of "pomaroid rogulation" from the screen as much with aspiration, now creeping on all TV channels by name?

                Quote: Corneli
                I think to my "self-esteem" you like the moon on foot)


                Yes you! As you could only think. laughing laughing Compare my self-esteem with an absolute zero like yours.
                1. Corneli
                  Corneli 31 August 2013 23: 11 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Hudo
                  Am I to list all the freaks from Channel 5, TVI, as well as other guano throwers who used to compose odes of "pomaroid rogulation" from the screen as much with aspiration, now creeping on all TV channels by name?

                  I didn’t write that there were few of them) I answered your EVERYTHING (that’s a lie) and I think there are no less such journalists in Russia in any way, give you Ukrainian
                  Quote: Hudo
                  Yes you! As you could only think. laughing laughing Compare my self-esteem with an absolute zero like yours.

                  He took and thought, for it is obvious laughing And in fact, after reading your answer, he only established himself in his opinion) fellow
                  1. Hudo
                    Hudo 1 September 2013 00: 40 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Corneli
                    I didn’t write that there were few of them) I answered your EVERYTHING (that’s a lie) and I think there are no less such journalists in Russia in any way, give you Ukrainian


                    Aw !!! An article about Ukraine, and it was about Ukrainian journalists. Try a snack. fool

                    Quote: Corneli
                    And in fact, having read your answer, he only established himself in his opinion


                    How can one establish oneself in that which does not exist. fool
                    1. Corneli
                      Corneli 1 September 2013 00: 57 New
                      0
                      Quote: Hudo
                      Aw !!! An article about Ukraine, and it was about Ukrainian journalists. Try a snack. fool

                      Quote: Hudo
                      How can one establish oneself in that which does not exist. fool

                      Only one question: how old are you?)
                      1. Hudo
                        Hudo 1 September 2013 10: 15 New
                        -1
                        During the exchange of opinions, so to speak, I got the opinion that you are trying to read the welder’s glasses written to you through the opaque glass, and then, being sighted, screwing up your eyes for the better effect, you tap on the keyboard equipped with the Braille font the first thing that got into your head.
                        I must say that you baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! laughing fellow I will not bother you. Hone your skills, you have a resounding success ahead in the big circus arena.
                        With best wishes. hi crying
                      2. Corneli
                        Corneli 1 September 2013 15: 00 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Hudo
                        During the exchange of opinions, so to speak, I got the opinion that you are trying to read the welder’s glasses written to you through the opaque glass, and then, being sighted, screwing up your eyes for the better effect, you tap on the keyboard equipped with the Braille font the first thing that got into your head.

                        In the course of "our" exchange of views and reading your other posts on this topic, I personally concluded that you are an "ordinary troll minor"
                        Quote: Hudo
                        I must say that you baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! laughing fellow I will not bother you. Hone your skills, you have a resounding success ahead in the big circus arena.
                        Regards. hi crying

                        An ordinary citizen of the state of Ukraine, I do not pretend to be “original” (I try, with varying success, to claim adequacy ... and no more)
                        As for my "EXTRAORDINARY success in the circus arena", would you at least answer the question about age b (instead of congresses)) Or are you a woman? Then of course I apologize)
                      3. Hudo
                        Hudo 1 September 2013 15: 19 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Corneli
                        An ordinary citizen of the state of Ukraine, I do not pretend to be “original” (I try, with varying success, to claim adequacy ... and no more)

                        very many bukafnonifigaposuti.

                        Well, you have to take the "ordinary citizen" as a cat who nabbed a scruff of a neck and stick a muzzle in it and done it. So that it would be inconsistent in the future.
                        So:
                        Quote: Hudo
                        The staff of Ukrainian TV channels consists entirely of Galician creeps of koi gurgling on Austro-Polish-Romanian-Galician surzhik tirelessly pouring feces on Russia in every news release.


                        Quote: Corneli
                        The staff of Ukrainian TV channels consists of citizens of Ukraine (including Russian-speaking and ethnic Russians), they speak the state language (Ukrainian) or Russian (e.g. on the Inter channel)

                        Next, you were given an example of such a fecal list.
                        Quote: Hudo
                        For example, here’s the “ethnic Russian” Andrei Kulikov who directly stated that he did not intend to use the Russian language for him and use it.

                        Why did you mumble something there that they say they say is not significant.
                        Quote: Corneli
                        AND? You are an example of poking a producer, the Ukrainian BBC service with 10 years of experience, and starting from 92 years old?) A super example! And of course ALL (in your opinion) journalists and leading in Ukraine are)
                      4. Corneli
                        Corneli 1 September 2013 15: 35 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Hudo
                        very many bukafnonifigaposuti.

                        It seems hard for you to read ... (
                        Quote: Hudo
                        Well, you have to take the "ordinary citizen" as a cat who nabbed a scruff of a neck and stick a muzzle in it and done it. So that it would be inconsistent in the future.
                        So:

                        You have not grown to such “feats”. as you can see from a simple question, to you, about your age)
                        Quote: Hudo
                        Next, you were given an example of such a fecal list.

                        I wrote about the "example" (but you did not deign to comprehend the arguments, apparently not of your level, did not grow up to such "complexity"), you can also throw a bandera or Mazepa into the "examples", you hardly know anyone else. (
                        Quote: Hudo
                        Why did you mumble something there that they say they say is not significant.

                        As I understand it, from your “miracle” comments on this thread, your hobby is banal trollism. before arguments you still need to grow up, read smart books ... mb even and it will turn out ... In the meantime, the ceiling .. "mumble" and "very much squeaky" and a mustache ( angry
                      5. Hudo
                        Hudo 1 September 2013 15: 41 New
                        0
                        Quote: Corneli
                        You have not grown to such “feats”. as you can see from a simple question, to you, about your age)


                        On this issue, you could make inquiries in my profile. Or zapadenskie roots burnt iodine deficiency your already weak brain?

                        For your other excuse, verbal diarrhea will not be answered - there is actually nothing to answer.
                  2. Hudo
                    Hudo 1 September 2013 15: 30 New
                    -1
                    On my offer to continue this list of villains
                    Quote: Hudo

                    Am I to list all the freaks from Channel 5, TVI, as well as other guano throwers who used to compose odes of "pomaroid rogulation" from the screen as much with aspiration, now creeping on all TV channels by name?

                    In your "best" traditions, you behaved, to put it mildly, like a bazaar woman - with all the womanish attributes you screeched about some kind of lies and tried to get off the topic by attributing words to me that I did not write.
                    Quote: Corneli
                    I didn’t write that there were few of them) I answered your EVERYTHING (that’s a lie) and I think there are no less such journalists in Russia in any way, give you Ukrainian


                    I can’t help but notice that you are behaving like a lying scoundrel who was caught lying.
                    And therefore, gracious sovereign, lend where you will be given courage so lacking, and admit your own lies.
                  3. Corneli
                    Corneli 1 September 2013 15: 39 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Hudo
                    On my offer to continue this list of villains

                    Quote: Hudo
                    In your "best" traditions, you behaved, to put it mildly, as a bazaar woman - with all the womanish attributes, screeched about some lies and tried to get off the topic.

                    Oh my God, not a "bazaar woman", let it go!) Am I really bothering you ?!) Che for congresses and fantasies?
                    Quote: Hudo
                    I can’t help but notice that you are behaving like a lying scoundrel who was caught lying.

                    My "lie" in the studio, you are our clown, Internet)
                  4. Hudo
                    Hudo 1 September 2013 15: 46 New
                    0
                    Quote: Corneli
                    My "lie" in the studio, you are our clown, Internet)

                    Truly Galician iodine deficiency is an inexhaustible source of cretinima.

                    Above, Mr. liar, everything is given POSITIVE.

                    PS Do you understand the word "POSITIVE"? Or do you need additional explanations of words that are understandable even to children?
                  5. Corneli
                    Corneli 1 September 2013 15: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: Hudo
                    Truly Galician iodine deficiency is an inexhaustible source cretinima.

                    Cretenim - explains everything!) As well as "POSITIVE") And don’t have to go, dear) you answer questions)
                  6. Hudo
                    Hudo 1 September 2013 16: 03 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Corneli

                    Cretenim - explains everything!) As well as "POSITIVE") And don’t have to go, dear) you answer questions)


                    How everything is up to you !!! Are you actually able to re-read quotes from your own comments, or is it still worse than it seems at first glance?
                    Is it possible for you to click my nickname with your mouse to get the information you need?
                    Or can you just grimace like circus monkeys? no
                  7. Corneli
                    Corneli 1 September 2013 18: 20 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Hudo
                    How everything is up to you !!! Are you actually able to re-read quotes from your own comments, or is it still worse than it seems at first glance?

                    You’re not like “reading quotes,” you’re even afraid to answer direct questions) At the same time, turn on a hard “frost” like nobody asked anything) Roughly speaking ... you really have everything started ... nowhere else, perhaps (
                    If you, nevertheless, turn on the “thinker” (AND YOU WILL READ WHAT YOU WRITTEN))) then you can continue further, so far only a dull troll (who is afraid to even answer the question how old he is (() the question by the way has not just appeared, adults are more adequate ... as a rule ... and certainly not afraid to answer about their age)))
                  8. Hudo
                    Hudo 1 September 2013 19: 48 New
                    0
                    For idiots and zapadentsev I repeat the letter
                    S E S T V E T Y A N D E N T S P R S T O P E N D E N D E N A N S E - O T K R S T U S L O D N O G O P R O S M O T R A point.

                    success in mastering elementary operations - such as reading and clicking with the mouse.
                  9. Corneli
                    Corneli 1 September 2013 23: 59 New
                    0
                    Quote: Hudo
                    S E S T V E T Y A N D E N T S P R S T O P E N D E N D E N A N S E - O T K R S T U S L O D N O G O P R O S M O T R A point.

                    oh thank you, I’ll correct the phrase “you are an ordinary troll minor.” You are not him, you are a 44 year old troll ordinary who gives an impression of himself as a minor). Forgive me for the truth)
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 31 August 2013 18: 19 New
      +5
      Russia in the trade war with Ukraine, no compromises are needed. Russia has partners much more serious. issues of sovereignty are enshrined in interstate relations by law. just Ukraine took an unfriendly anti-Russian position, well, excuse me, but what does she want in return?
    2. xan
      xan 31 August 2013 23: 18 New
      0
      Quote: roial
      On equal terms, and not as a vassal and overlord.

      But can one explain how Russia should build relations with Ukraine on equal terms? When will Ukrainians get rid of complexes? You have not been a big country for 22 years, you are small, and behave according to your abilities. Do you have the same Russian?
      Quote: roial
      Nevertheless, the position of Ukraine all these years was characterized as an active defense with elements of trolling. Nobody encroached on the sovereignty of Russia.

      Yeah, so Ukraine can reconsider its position and begin to encroach on the sovereignty of Russia?
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 31 August 2013 17: 38 New
      +3
      and well, they have vouchers for heavy meals, as said Gleb Zhiglov. Declared a trade war? did the right thing. for Russia this is not critical. and let Ukraine revel in independence. since it’s so independent, then at the moment it will reorient its exports to the EU. It would be something to export.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 31 August 2013 16: 53 New
    +5
    “When the choice is between the European Union and the Customs Union, it is clear that Ukraine is looking for certain benefits for itself.” ... it is not Ukraine that is looking for benefits, the pseudo-elite is looking for benefits, this is clear and understandable to the economy of the trend, the question is what they will remain with. Upon joining the EU, they are quietly hinted that the stolen money will be kept in Western banks and real estate ... or they may not be saved.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 31 August 2013 17: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: Strashila
      in the EU, they are quietly hinting that they will keep the stolen loot in Western banks and real estate ... or they may not save it.


      Greed is blind. The example of Moammar Gaddafi, who also kept money in the West and had the imprudence to lend French Sarkozl some money for the election, does not teach anything.
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 31 August 2013 16: 54 New
    +7
    "Russia can be a strong state and dominate the post-Soviet space only in alliance with Ukraine"
    How is this so? Ukrainians are completely different from the Japanese, and there ... No, this statement is incorrect. If Ukraine right this second will fail in tartarara, Russia will not even scratch oneself. Quickly fix the destruction along the border and forget it right there. But in Ukraine around this moronic statement which year plans are being made! Passions are boiling! Strategies are being built ... Russian people, from the Austrian filing, who have declared themselves to be a "separate nation", why are you so stupefied ?! Well, just trouble ...
    At the moment, nobody needs Ukraine. A drunk bum loafer is of little value, neither his profession, nor his desire to work, nor a decent look ... We "will never leave Ukraine behind" solely because we want to save more of ours. Since there is an unstoppable separation in two directions. Hardworking, smart, strong are leaving for us. Those who like slave share and whores of both sexes - to Europe. In Ukraine, those who feed the Ukrainian "state" in one way or another are kept. But the food supply is declining, guys, Ukraine cannot create a full-fledged state, because it is Ukraine. The outskirts of our country, the border, the cordon ... a place that can even thrive, as long as we supply it. But the cordon will very soon bend if you stop supplying it.
    It’s as stupid as ...
    1. smile
      smile 31 August 2013 21: 08 New
      0
      Mikhail3
      Read some comments of Ukrainians ... your comparisons with a drunken bum are unlikely to be pleasant to them ... but we are unlikely to like such comparisons addressed to us ... you specify, do you mean the whole Ukrainian people, including Russians living in Ukraine, or you mean Svidomo and their leadership ... just by summarizing, you can coolly set normal Ukrainians against yourself ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 31 August 2013 17: 00 New
    +1
    I, not a supporter of Ukraine’s joining the European Union, for I was and will remain Russian, who, for reasons beyond my control, lives in Ukraine and believes that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine were, are and will be fraternal peoples - this is not an artificial political unity. No integration, "cultural revolution", political games of those in power and so on, can destroy this concept.
    The modern world political and economic system, as never before, is subject to transformation and reorientation, and transformation processes no longer take hundreds or tens of years, as was previously the case due to the presence of colonialists and colonies, a socialist and capitalist camp. How many and what kind of political, military and economic unions did we know in the twentieth century? Everything could be counted on the fingers of one hand. What do we have today? I think it makes no sense to list everything.
    Let's look at Russia as the most self-sufficient country from the former USSR. Russia is in agreements in the Union State with Belarus, the CIS, the Collective Security Treaty Organization, the BRICS, the APEC, the SCO, and I’m not talking about 8, 20, the Council of Europe, and so on. All these unions and associations are not monocrystalline - everyone has different views, tasks and goals, the presence of intra-union and inter-union frictions, and sometimes serious disagreements and confrontations. But this does not prevent countries with serious problems “being close to each other” (for example, India and Pakistan). But do partners in the Union State not periodically test each other for strength?

    Therefore, I am simply struck by the conviction of those who play the same disc - “Ukraine crossed the Rubicon”, there is no return, everything is lost, it will not be released, and so on.
    Cool down, time and our common roots cannot be artificially changed!
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 31 August 2013 17: 03 New
    0
    Indeed, this fall the fate of Ukraine is being decided. I would like to believe that the leadership of this country will calculate all the risks. associated with entering into associative relations with the European Union. How the economy of Ukraine will develop, whether it will withstand the pressure of Europe on cheap goods, what will happen to agriculture. There are many questions. And how they will be solved depends on what the economy of this country will be. True, the media reported that Yanukovych plans to hold a referendum on this issue. If so, then everything is in the hands of the people of Ukraine.
    1. vitamin
      vitamin ky 31 August 2013 17: 28 New
      +1
      for 22 years of this strange independence — and nothing and never was in the hands of the people of Ukraine — all remarks about referenda on a particular topic — be it NATO — RUSSIAN LANGUAGE OR The economic development path — the power of those holding — there’s only an advertising campaign lure — such a mark on a rope - so for example, I don’t build illusions -the government wants to go to the EU (I -NO) -and will drag like a bulldozer -they will put us before the fact and then after all this happens crying let's be honest to the end - any government in any country follows its own line — and it doesn’t give a damn about the aspirations of the people — there are two options — or the course coincides with the people's desire, or it’s a good coincidence — or it doesn’t coincide radically, and then everything is exactly the opposite — and nothing really depends on the people here — sadly, but this is a fact
  • Makarov
    Makarov 31 August 2013 17: 09 New
    +2
    I read the news about the referendum, I wondered what I personally want .... with my head for the EU, my soul to the East ... somewhere it turns out ....
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 31 August 2013 17: 46 New
      +4
      Quote: Makarov
      what I personally want .... head for the EU, soul to the East ... somewhere it turns out ....

      As for the head, there a person from Latvia left a comment, about the head and desire of the EU. Read it, maybe let it go wink
    2. S-200
      S-200 31 August 2013 18: 21 New
      +4
      alluring rainbow-colored euro prospects? ... belay
      Well, well ... understand! lol
      "Europe" will come suddenly and not as many of you expect it!
      nobody will need your agriculture in Europe ...
      as well as the fruit and vegetable industry (example - Moldova)
      aircraft construction, shipbuilding, tank building and the entire defense industry - too!
      but the air will be cleaner! wassat from the fact that metallurgy and metalworking will fade ....
      Latvians are already nostalgic for the Union ...
      but you don’t believe them ..
      shaw, that Latvia ...
      while you think that you have much better EURO prospects! ...
      1. Kars
        Kars 31 August 2013 19: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: S-200
        as well as the fruit and vegetable industry (example - Moldova)

        Moldova is a member of the EU?

        Quote: S-200
        aircraft construction, shipbuilding, tank building and the entire defense industry - too!

        Tipo it is necessary for YOU (RF) of course.
        Quote: S-200
        nobody will need your agriculture in Europe ...

        Now we sell sunflower oil and rapeseed to Europe and? We export wheat not only to Europe - do you think the EU will be banned from growing wheat? Potatoes?
        Quote: S-200
        while you think that you have much better EURO prospects! ..
        There, although the rules of the game are stable and open, Onishchenkov was not observed. If the laboratory gave the go-ahead, no one will find the gas transfer.
        1. igor67
          igor67 31 August 2013 19: 36 New
          +4
          Quote: Kars
          Quote: S-200
          as well as the fruit and vegetable industry (example - Moldova)

          Moldova is a member of the EU?

          Quote: S-200
          aircraft construction, shipbuilding, tank building and the entire defense industry - too!

          Tipo it is necessary for YOU (RF) of course.
          Quote: S-200
          nobody will need your agriculture in Europe ...

          Now we sell sunflower oil and rapeseed to Europe and? We export wheat not only to Europe - do you think the EU will be banned from growing wheat? Potatoes?
          Quote: S-200
          while you think that you have much better EURO prospects! ..
          There, although the rules of the game are stable and open, Onishchenkov was not observed. If the laboratory gave the go-ahead, no one will find the gas transfer.

          Kosher oil laughing
  • Troy
    Troy 31 August 2013 17: 46 New
    +6
    Quote: Druid
    By joining the European Union, it will undoubtedly survive a recession, primarily initiated by Russia. Russia, ready to agree to cooperate with any EU state, will take ordinary revenge on any state, ex-USSR republic only because it has turned its back on the alliance with it or participation in its projects "collecting lands" of the former Russian Empire and the actual loss of sovereignty. Moscow wants to appoint presidents, to solve foreign policy issues, to spread rot because of this, the economy and its development both of its own and of satellite states, another and most importantly a modern base and basis for the unification of states in the economic, military, political sense, Russia unfortunately could not offer, only "I’m the boss you ...." and this is all against the background of blackmail by the threat of separatism, etc., the prerequisites for which were created by Russia itself. But the problem is that this does not suit the former republics of the USSR, the fragments of the Russian Empire, and the pragmatic policy of unification and protection of interests is alien to the Russian leadership, unless we talk about consolidating the interests or protecting the interests of the kings appointed and supported by Moscow.
    Ukrainians do not need to be afraid and waste time on fears, they need to modernize their state, management systems and eliminate the fifth column in the echelons of power. In the state system, the presence of pro-European or pro-Russian people is unacceptable, only pragmatists and pro-Ukrainian forces are needed. In order to strengthen independence, modernize the political system, society and relations in it, develop immunity and strengthen independence and independence, Ukraine is more correct to follow the path of European integration in the economic and political sense, at least. And if at the same time there will be attempts to sabotage from neighboring states, artificially forming protest and separatist sentiments, then she will probably have to consider the issue of integration into NATO in the near future, otherwise Ukraine may lose de facto independence.

    Yeah, then Moscow oppresses itself and establishes its own rules, but Brussels does not oppress and does not establish its own orders? Ukraine expects to be on equal footing with Germany, France, Italy? What do you smoke and where do you get it laughing But Russia will still introduce a visa regime and where then will your ordinary people earn money? In Europe? There you can’t get a freebie, you have to pay taxes there, which your guest workers in Russia didn’t do. And about the dividends that you will receive, ask those who have plunged into this before.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 31 August 2013 17: 58 New
      -2
      In general, people wrote quite correctly.
      Quote: Troy
      Yeah, then Moscow oppresses itself and establishes its own rules, but Brussels does not oppress and does not establish its own orders?

      Do you like the EU = Russia = USA? In terms of behavior?
      Quote: Troy
      But Russia will still introduce a visa regime and where then will your ordinary people earn money?

      It is desirable in your own country. In addition, I have repeatedly heard that Russians are dissatisfied with Gaster and the intensification of the fight against illegal immigrants and guest workers, without any entry by Ukraine.
      Quote: Troy
      In Europe? There is no freebie ride, there you have to pay taxeswhat your guest workers in Russia didn’t do.

      And what is wrong with paying taxes?
      1. S-200
        S-200 31 August 2013 18: 46 New
        +4
        Quote: Corneli
        And what is wrong with paying taxes?

        Indeed, why is it bad for a Ukrainian to pay 60% of the tax? wassat
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 31 August 2013 18: 58 New
          -2
          Quote: S-200
          Indeed, why is it bad for a Ukrainian to pay 60% of the tax? wassat

          Not all EU countries have such a tax (you are talking about the EU, right). Otherwise, what Gaster do there - the Poles and the Balts (and even now there are Ukrainian ramparts). In addition, I would prefer that the "zarobitchans" in Ukraine work (and hinted at that) and pay taxes here, but here he is already not at all 60%.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 31 August 2013 17: 56 New
    0
    Now they started talking in Ukraine about the referendum, where the EU or the CU should join, and when he knows, Yanukovych is talking about it, and so I think that the Kremlin should not buy this empty Ukrainian bag and wait for this event while continuing to make concessions to Ukraine like everyone else these 20 years in the hope that Ukraine will enter the CU, again lost time.
  • sashka
    sashka 31 August 2013 18: 07 New
    +1
    First you need to know WHERE you are. And then “enter.” Well, something like that .. Rakes they always hit the same forehead. Shaved or not does not matter ..
  • S-200
    S-200 31 August 2013 18: 11 New
    +3
    There are two European geopolitical players Russia vs EU ...
    All other countries of the former socialist camp and the Euro-USSR are pieces on this chessboard ..
    and after the "taking" (exchange) of another figure from Russia, the fate of this country in its "Euro-integration" is gathering dust (and not leaning out) in the storerooms of history ...
  • sub307
    sub307 31 August 2013 18: 12 New
    +1
    Pavel Svyatenkov: Kiev has approached the line beyond which there is no return
    Today, 15:48
    And comment:
    svp67 SU  Today, 11:19
    How so?
    1. sub307
      sub307 31 August 2013 19: 34 New
      0
      Can someone clarify: how the time of publication of an article can be later (15:34), and commented earlier at 11:19.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 31 August 2013 19: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: sub307
        Can someone clarify: how the time of publication of an article can be later (15:34), and commented earlier at 11:19.

        Yes, everything is fine. We are in Russia.
        1. sub307
          sub307 31 August 2013 21: 41 New
          +1
          Well then, Lando.
    2. stroporez
      stroporez 31 August 2013 22: 21 New
      0
      full of RUSSIA miracles ............
  • pahom54
    pahom54 31 August 2013 18: 22 New
    +4
    Quote: Mikhail3
    Hardworking, smart, strong are leaving for us. Those who like slave share and whores of both sexes - to Europe

    I completely agree! But I agree with the fact that it’s impossible to send Ukraine at all, since so far, by the will of fate, there are many people left in Ukraine who are adherents of Russia. And all the water is balamut (they also balamut in Soviet times) Westerners-Galicians. Even in Soviet times, they were adherents of the West, in particular Poland, forgetting that being part of Poland, they only had the name "" (cattle) from the Poles. The same thing will happen when entering the European Union.
    In general, all these disagreements between Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are unpleasant. And after all, these disagreements are not at the level of the people (yet!), But at the level of political leadership. It’s a pity, because the friendship between these three state-republics-peoples could create a POWERFUL political, economic and defense alliance that would make a rustle not only in Europe, but also in the Americas !!!
    1. Maverick78
      Maverick78 31 August 2013 19: 57 New
      +4
      Galician Westerners are also people, and not bad at their core. And their relationship with the Poles is far from cloudless. And you are right about the leadership)
  • individual
    individual 31 August 2013 18: 31 New
    +2
    If the worst happens in Ukrainian foreign economic policy, the “automatic” will affect especially the internal - Crimea ...
  • Goldkonstantin
    Goldkonstantin 31 August 2013 18: 35 New
    +3
    Ukraine is time to end with trampling on the spot. They won’t take her to any European Union, and they won’t fill up with money, they would scrape themselves. It's just a bait, a carrot, if you want, to tear Kiev from us. But we are one people.
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas 31 August 2013 18: 40 New
    +1
    The Declaration of State Sovereignty and the Declaration of Independence clearly stated that Ukraine is a neutral state. Naturally, this was done as a curtsy in relation to Moscow. Ukrainians wanted to be masters in their hut from the edge, but did not quarrel with the rest of the farm. it would continue this way, I am sure of it, if not for the pressure of Moscow. Perhaps it all started with Tuzla, then political intervention (an attempt to influence the election results) and economic (discrimination of Ukrainian goods, monopolistic over the price of raw materials from Russia, etc.), ideological (quote from the Russian president: "There is no Ukraine, but there is our lands, and a bit of Europe "," They would have won without Ukraine ... ", different interpretations of historical aspects ...) and even military preparations relevant during the presidency of Yushchenko (thank God it didn’t reach). Pressure, threats, blackmail in relation to other countries is a routine thing in politics. And Russia has many natural levers of influence in Ukraine inherited from the Union and the Russian Empire (culture, history, Orthodoxy, shed blood, “language of interethnic communication”). But this is exactly what, IMHO, and played a cruel joke with the "Kremlin sages." like a good push, take it abruptly, and Ukraine will fall like an overripe apple. The resettlement and primitive methods of Moscow, which caused the rejection not only of the establishment, but also of a significant part of Ukrainians. But even today, Ukraine leaves Russia a chance for equal integration, as a result of equality and respect for political, economic, military, because there is no antagonism between Ukrainians and Russians. Ukraine abandoned NATO, where the Americans intensively wooed it, Kharkov agreements were signed, met with the approval of the majority of Ukrainians. so the "puck" has long been forwarded to the Russians. Russia will continue to “hysteria”, and Ukraine will gradually become the political, economic and military part of Europe as a result of the search for new markets, partners, security and in general the sense of “ambition” inherent in the southern Slavs. And since Russia is "arranged" by stable and equal relations, the association of Ukraine with the EU will remain nothing more than an association with the EU of the Palestinian Authority or the Republic of Chile. And there, as the "card will lie down", many Ukrainians remember their rebellious childhood, youth, friends and want to forget all the pagan. Just do not tighten. Young people are all about European, for Europe is really the standard in many aspects of the life of states and nations.
    1. xan
      xan 31 August 2013 22: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Aeneas
      The resettlement and primitive methods of Moscow, which caused the rejection not only of the establishment, but also of a significant part of Ukrainians.

      and not primitive methods - these are preferential conditions on the vehicle market, so what? Maybe you also have the key to the apartment where the money is? You already had privileges and good gas prices - we got full growth Russophobia.
      Quote: Aeneas
      But even today, Ukraine leaves Russia a chance for equal integration, as a result of equality and respect for political, economic, military, because there is no antagonism between Ukrainians and Russians.

      What peer integration? Does this give you the dough for upgrades and orders for your industry? And then to be equal partners with you? Is this another Ukrainian trick or humor with a serious face? Ukrainians, forget about equal integration, you have nothing to offer in the joint Ukraine-Russia company
    2. Vitali-46
      Vitali-46 1 September 2013 07: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: Aeneas
      Young people are all about European, for Europe is really the standard in many aspects of the life of states and nations.

      Are you talking about gay parades? About the legalization of marijuana and prostitution ?? About lots of pedophiles?

      Fair wind, in the standard of life .......
  • Goliaf
    Goliaf 31 August 2013 18: 50 New
    0
    It is noteworthy that both Russia and Europe are fighting for Ukraine, building close and distant plans for this country. And only Ukraine itself, or rather, its government, does not see beyond its own nose, or rather, its own wallet.

    The current government of Ukraine resembles a virus that will not calm down until it destroys the host organism. In this case, the state of Ukraine. Surprisingly, Yanukovych managed to crush all sorts of so-called "elites" so much that he really rules the country with his family and several of her friends. Gradually becoming richer and stronger, the "family" is already looking at the largest oligarchs and their property. Yesterday they were associates. Today they cautiously look towards Yanukovych, who devours everything that can replenish the home piggy bank.

    It was on this person, on the former ZK, who had rewound two terms, that Vladimir Putin once relied. I was always interested in the question of what the former KGB officer thought to himself when he once again shook hands with the former ZK. And to date, Putin has received what could be expected from a criminal.

    Yanukovych is following his own path, on which he will be able to continue to enrich himself. That is why it is tuned to Europe. Because Europe, considering Ukraine as a springboard for the construction of NATO bases and a cemetery for its nuclear waste, is ready to forgive Yanukovych and prisoner Tymoshenko, and his criminal past, and his ability to empty the treasury of Ukraine with impunity.

    But Russia will not allow Yanukovych to live in peace. Russia will impose its economic policy. Russia will begin to redraw the political structure of Ukraine, not taking into account the interests of the "family". Russia will become a threat to his personal business, which is now growing by leaps and bounds. Yanukovych is simply afraid of Putin, who is more powerful, smarter and more arrogant than the Ukrainian president.

    Plus, Viktor Fedorovich is not able to think globally. He cannot realize that Europe will not give anything good to a country whose economy is destroyed by his mediocre rule and the rule of his predecessors. Yanukovych cannot grasp in his meager mind the threat posed by the US to Russia, China, Iran and others. Yanukovych cannot understand that Ukraine is another leverage with which the States will spoil Russia. Yes, he doesn’t need it. He knows for sure that his own life is limited to a couple of decades. And no matter what happens to Ukraine tomorrow, this will not affect him personally. In an extreme case, when there is nothing left to steal in Ukraine, he will leave to live in London.

    In general, Yanukovych is used to living a scent. And it is this scumbag that tells him that Russia is more dangerous for him than the EU. So he chooses the lesser of two evils. As for Ukraine and its people - today in the country everything is decided by one family, who do not care about this very people from the Eiffel Tower. Or from Tower Bridge. The family doesn’t care where people spit on.

    And the people are just trying to survive, both in the east and in the west of Ukraine, both in the Crimea and in Kiev. Each with his own family.
    1. xan
      xan 31 August 2013 23: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: Goliaf
      But Russia will not allow Yanukovych to live in peace. Russia will impose its economic policy. Russia will begin to redraw the political structure of Ukraine, not taking into account the interests of the "family". Russia will become a threat to his personal business, which is now growing by leaps and bounds. Yanukovych is simply afraid of Putin, who is more powerful, smarter and more arrogant than the Ukrainian president.

      Well, I always knew that someone always looks creatively and to the root. Putin will jam Yanukovych, don’t go to your grandmother.
      "God's millstones are ground slowly but thoroughly."
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 31 August 2013 23: 37 New
        0
        Quote: xan
        Putin will jam Yanukovych, don’t go to your grandmother.
        "God's millstones are ground slowly but thoroughly."


        Your words, yes to God’s ears!
  • saag
    saag 31 August 2013 18: 53 New
    +2
    Yes, Ukraine is going to a place where, with the exception of its western part, it has no commonality, Orthodox Ukraine and Catholic Lutheran-Protestant Europe, but for them refugees from Africa will be even closer, it’s amazing what kind of euphoria people experience with the word “Europe ", probably they felt similar feelings during the sovereignty parade with the word" independence ", now we’ll become independent and everything will work out right away and the same thing - here we’ll sign an association agreement and immediately heal !!! It’s like adults, and everyone expects miracles, seeing someone else’s example is not a decree and they think that this will never happen to them
  • S-200
    S-200 31 August 2013 18: 53 New
    +7
    Quote: Aeneas
    If Russia is “arranged” for stable and equal relations

    YOUR division ... in god-soul, harness and iron hooves!
    Yes, you go down to earth without your farm arrogance and arrogance!
    Turks are breaking into Europe - ONLY take it ... and what a developed country!
    and the Ukrainian pan with his conditions in a foreign monastery .... fool
    therefore you and your conditions are neither needed by us, nor Europe!
    keep hanging sovereignly ...
    Putin, introduce customs restrictions for Ukraine!
    good to us with Ukrainian lard on the wort with their entry into the vehicle ...
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas 31 August 2013 18: 59 New
      0
      And what doesn’t suit you or insult “stable-equal relations”? recourse
      1. S-200
        S-200 31 August 2013 19: 04 New
        +4
        and what you are not satisfied with OUR conditions for entry into the vehicle ???
        only one thing suits me - the equality of all subjects of Russia within the borders of the USSR of the sample of 1945-46.
        1. roial
          roial 31 August 2013 19: 15 New
          -1
          First, conditions are offered, not dictated.

          We are well aware that they will not take us to any EU, our products in the EU markets are not competitive, having joined the EU we will be a market for the sale of European goods and a supplier of raw materials for Europe. But despite this, at least half of the country advocates rapprochement with the EU.

          Even supporters of the Customs Union were a little quiet after the Russian sanctions were imposed on Belarusian milk only because a Russian oligarch was arrested in Belarus.

          As long as you have in power a government that is trying to dictate terms to others, while openly "roofing" the oligarchs there will not be any consent.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 02: 57 New
            +1
            Quote: roial
            First, conditions are offered, not dictated.

            They were offered them to you, but whether you agree or not, the question is different. And as regards dictatorship, the EU is just dictating the conditions, I won’t even talk about timothy.
            Quote: roial

            As long as you have a government in power that is trying to dictate terms to others,

            And you thought Russia can dictate conditions, do not don’t
        2. Aeneas
          Aeneas 31 August 2013 19: 29 New
          -1
          Quote: S-200
          and what you are not satisfied with OUR conditions for entry into the vehicle ???
          My point of view is that I don’t really understand how states can coexist economically when one state trades with another, placing a partner in obviously unequal conditions. For example, Belarus trades with Russia in the framework of the CU, using raw materials purchased in Russia at market prices, but Russia removed this heading from the list of duty-free goods and levies these goods with additional duties or other conditions of a non-economic nature. Tobin, Belarusian, or potentially Ukrainian goods obtained from Russian raw materials taxed, obviously not competitive with Russian in the framework of a single economy. And the share of this Russian raw material in the mutual turnover exceeds half. I think this is not fair. Belarus has accepted this injustice and is competing in the Russian market due to low labor costs (impoverishment of the laboring masses), better quality, state management, and deprivation of sovereignty. Moreover, this "equality" is situational. we all see how Russians are once again talking about the “poor quality” of Belarusian goods because of the political factor that should not be present in such a highly level political, economic and military association. Kazakhstan is more stable in this regard, because it itself produces carbon-hydrogen raw materials. Ukraine is also more stable, because it has other markets, significant raw materials, and is not ready to lose its sovereignty for the sake of such economic “equality”, and continues to trade under unequal conditions with Russia, which naturally entails a rise in the cost of Ukrainian goods, which is compensated by the owners by other methods. .. This is something on the surface.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 1 September 2013 03: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: Aeneas
            , Belarus trades with Russia in the framework of the CU, using raw materials purchased in Russia at market prices, but Russia

            Not on the market, but on the domestic and even at a discount, what are you silent about?
            And a simple question, but are you happy with everything in the EU?
            1. Aeneas
              Aeneas 1 September 2013 23: 29 New
              +1
              are Russian oil and gas workers really forced to sell hydrocarbons to Belarus? .. There can be no "domestic" prices in the common economic space, some kind of nonsense. Belarusians get gas at a discount (all the same, the price in Russia is cheaper) as part of the payment for their gas transportation system, they buy oil at world prices, only Russia still levies duties and excises for a barrel of naphtha.
        3. Maverick78
          Maverick78 31 August 2013 20: 03 New
          +3
          Would you be satisfied with OUR conditions for our entry into the CU? Conditions must be mutually beneficial, not OUR.
          And what does the subjects of Russia mean? Those. Do you consider Belarus and Kazakhstan as subjects of Russia?
          1. xan
            xan 31 August 2013 23: 42 New
            0
            Lord Ukrainians and Belarusians! Do you seriously think that you are making products without which Russia cannot exist? Do not like the conditions of Russia, do not go to them. It only seems to me that everything will be like in a parable.
            Came to the natives Ukrainian, Frenchman and Americanos. the natives set the condition or to give 5 thousand bucks, or the whole village is in f ... y, or eat 1 kg of salt. Amerikos - that's the bucks. the natives gave him a boat, oars and indicated the direction. Frenchman - have me - they had it from and they gave the horse a paddle and indicated the direction. Ukrainian - I will be strong! ate two spoons - no, have me! they had a couple of people, again - I’ll be strong! again ate a couple of spoons and irritatedly - here are the bucks, scum! The Ukrainian was given a boat, oars and indicated the direction.
          2. Essenger
            Essenger 1 September 2013 03: 31 New
            +3
            Quote: Maverick78
            Would you be satisfied with OUR conditions for our entry into the CU? Conditions must be mutually beneficial, not OUR.
            And what does the subjects of Russia mean? Those. Do you consider Belarus and Kazakhstan as subjects of Russia?


            Dear Maverick, do you really think that Russia will consider Ukraine equal in rights?
            We were the "younger brothers" and in their eyes will always remain so. They will never look at us as equal partners. They will always try to bend and crush under themselves.

            The Eurasian Union is not a union at all, it is a common attempt to join the former colonies to the metropolis. Ukraine does not play integration with Russia and does not join the CU. Happy for you.
            1. Maverick78
              Maverick78 2 September 2013 03: 42 New
              +1
              I have a lot of friends and relatives in Russia. No questions arise with any of them about “who is older and more important”. Hence the conclusion - these games in the “main” are beneficial only to a handful of politicians (moreover, our “Western partners” are simply delighted with the squabbles of Russia and Ukraine). I am simply convinced that we need to stick together and act together, and do not intend to change our beliefs because of a handful of people at the top and the stratum of cheers from both sides.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 2 September 2013 17: 17 New
                0
                Quote: Maverick78
                I have a lot of friends and relatives in Russia. There are no questions about "who is older and more important" with any of them.

                This is not a question of the leadership of Russians or Russians in Ukraine, it is a question of the leadership of Moscow or Kiev. Each state has its own set of parasites at the top, when eaten, the extra set from the feeder will be weaned.
  • rocketman
    rocketman 31 August 2013 19: 16 New
    +3
    Quote: 128mgb
    And now in power in Ukraine is precisely the "zapadentsy". And those are mostly Uniate Catholics.

    No, you're definitely hurt. In your opinion, Yanukrvich, Azarov and Akhmetov are bastards-Uniates-Catholics?
  • Black
    Black 31 August 2013 19: 19 New
    +5
    Quote: S_mirnov
    You look at Russia from the side:

    in the summer I drove my own car around Turkey, both in and out .... Last time there was 15 years ago ... Amazed by the changes! Roads !!!! Housing construction! plants! Everything works, everything works. Do not just work, plow! And the country does not recognize !!!
    He looked at his homeland from the side ... not that awkwardly ... annoyingly!
    1. S-200
      S-200 31 August 2013 19: 26 New
      +2
      they (Turks, Thais and Chinese) know how to invest our money wisely at home!
      and what real estate (for us) they are building on their coast! - Do not compare with ours either in price or in quality ...
      and we are only in ... America, bl.t! fool
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas 31 August 2013 19: 48 New
        +2
        they are able to invest both “ours” and “theirs”. For Turkey, not being a member of the EU, has all the “nishtyaks” of the Free Trade Zone with Europe. And Turkey supplies there (Europe) its not expensive and high-quality goods. At the same time, Turkey is a bridge between Europe, Iran, Iraq, post-Soviet Central Asia (through Azerbaijan) and "takes advantage" of its geo-political advantages for the benefit of its economy and international prestige.
  • Druid
    Druid 31 August 2013 19: 35 New
    +4
    Quote: svp67
    Are you going to the EU - please, but be prepared for the fact that the border with Russia will become significantly “no more transparent”,
    As far as I know, Russia is making great efforts to make the borders between Russia and the EU transparent. I somehow don’t imagine the option for the Russian Federation to begin to dictate the conditions, saying that everything will be transparent with Vaterland and Denmark, and with Ukraine, of course, if it integrates into the EU, it will be opaque.
    In short, on your lips it only looks like a naive, slightly covered threat, and very funny. Russia will use tougher leverage over Ukraine and it is a pity if weaklings find themselves in Kiev, you just have to endure it. Someone, and Ukrainians are hard workers and are not used to being dependents, sitting on someone else's neck or living off the resources of other nations. I visit both Ukraine and the Russian Federation, in the first they manage to make a candy from G, and in the second they will make a candy from G. Without inhabited, but the difference is already felt at the border with communication with officers of the border guards, a different culture.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 31 August 2013 19: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Druid
      I am in Ukraine and the Russian Federation, in the first they manage to make candy out of G

      Well, well ... Now it turns out that Roshen put in sweets ...,
      Quote: Druid
      and in the second of any candy G will do.
      But this is a completely natural process. And now we will make it of a better product.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 31 August 2013 20: 09 New
    +2
    Then someone wrote about the reforms in Ukraine, supposedly a geyvrop will help, do. Ukrainians themselves are not able?
  • Black
    Black 31 August 2013 20: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Aeneas
    they are able to invest both “ours” and “theirs”.

    They know how. Europe’s money took root there quite well. Another 5 years, and there will not be a single whole mountain in their highlands - they will all tear down or fill up the Knauf's bags.
    What am I talking about ... that, if you do not steal, the life of the country is not just changing, it is changing rapidly. We don’t really need money from outside, we don’t know where to put it. And in our changes over the past decades, there are only supermarkets with the smell of popcorn.
    The police are for people. The traffic cops (I saw several times even the gendarmes !!) do not care about you !!!
    We are changing somehow tight !!! And large territories are not the reason (as some try to imagine. And Ukraine is not our sister, and not even a brother ... Fish is deeper, Ukraine is sweeter (well, anyway, as it seems to them in the long term).
    You have to start with yourself!
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 31 August 2013 21: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: Chen
      if you do not steal, the life of the country is not just changing, it is changing rapidly.

      Do not steal? Well, that's fantastic! laughing
  • stranik72
    stranik72 31 August 2013 20: 20 New
    +3
    And why the majority believes (believes) that Ukraine (its power) is to blame for everything, and our Russian is white and fluffy. Why's that? Now a scandal with Belarus is breaking out, we’ve detained (I think for what) our nouveau riche, and the whole camarilla from the thieves to the bureaucrats screamed, flooded with her legs, but about Lithuania, which detained and issued a Russian citizen to the USA, bleating, and not about any sanctions didn’t even remember. So gentlemen, our authorities are not for the rapprochement of our peoples, but for the jackpot to possess which is beneficial, by the way, for the third party (where they all keep their capital, remember) they are striving, the Ukrainian authorities want (think) to simply get more from the EU than from the Russian Federation that's the whole problem. And she, I think, has already been decided in favor of herself, darlings. Well, our authorities are not in trouble, Uncle Joe is very pleased that relatives are threatening each other with their fists and are walling themselves. Thank you, including Putmedam for this.
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas 31 August 2013 20: 24 New
    +3
    Quote: Chen
    And Ukraine is not our sister, and not even a brother ..
    Of course, this is a bit pathetic - “sister” or “brother”, moreover, leveled by false politicians. But then, how can I, a Ukrainian, perceive Russian blood in me from my grandmother? As well as many Russians and Ukrainians? Analyze your family tree, and you will also find a Ukrainian recourse
    1. Black
      Black 31 August 2013 21: 18 New
      +2
      Analyzed up to 5 knees ...
      Not Russian. Not Ukrainian. Cossack me.
      Of course, I spoke somewhat figuratively. The state division does not give reason to worry about their blood affiliation. We are one people, divided by the insinuations of history. And everyone, in the minds of sound ones, cannot help but worry that the discord rules.
      Quote: Aeneas
      But then, how can I, a Ukrainian, perceive Russian blood in me from my grandmother?

      Fine. As I perceive it (blood) in the veins of my children. The wife is her unmeasured! wink
  • ZeroFact
    ZeroFact 31 August 2013 20: 36 New
    0
    And again, mutual insults ... The question is not whether Russia is good, but that there are no brothers in Europe. I think that Ukraine should drink the cup to the bottom. It's a pity, of course, but in pedagogy there is a method of "natural consequences" - painful for the child and parents, but very effective.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 31 August 2013 20: 39 New
    +3
    Quote: Arkan
    Then someone wrote about the reforms in Ukraine, supposedly a geyvrop will help, do. Ukrainians themselves are not able?
    I've also thought about this topic. Here a couple of days ago, here's what I thought of:
    It seems to me that such a manic desire of Ukrainian politicians to drag a country into the European Union is due only to one thing: to relieve themselves of all responsibility for it. Eliminate the burden of making conceptual decisions by shifting it to the shoulders of the European bureaucracy. And leave yourself that simpler ...
  • Druid
    Druid 31 August 2013 20: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: retired
    But this is a completely natural process. And now we will make it of a better product.
    No sweetheart and this is not the Russian way lol from "high-quality" Russian products can be bent.
    You can upload each other anything on the Internet forum, but I constantly visit both Russia and Ukraine, I travel a lot to both countries. Ukrainians where poor things are more decent or something, but what in Russia, if frankly just sorry for the people. I had a break, I began to judge "Putin's" Russia by a zombie hunter, almost succumbing to zombies ... But how recently I traveled, but looked how ordinary people live in modern Russia - SHOCK ... I am still on a business trip in Russia, Thank God, there’s just no hunger here and everyone has somehow been fed “quality”, as you think, sausage from imported meat. But after what I saw, the “pro-Russian” friends shied away from me in the past from the Russian Federation to Baku, for any mention of “here is Putin, but Russia” with their mats — I don’t want such a bestial life for myself or my children. And I don’t want the Ukrainians, but the Russians - decide how you want to live, only do not drag anyone behind you into the garbage dump, all the more by force, threats and blackmail.
    Everything is not smooth with us either, and they steal, and we take bribes, we are not angels - we all grumble demagogically and at the same time, we each catch our fish in troubled waters, but slowly everything is done in the country and this gives hope for a normal future despite the squeals of the local opposition , but the fact that in the Russian Federation words can not convey ...

    I’ll tell you one little secret - there will be order and justice in Russia, everyone will reach for it, now only due to contradictions with the rest of the world and under pressure, and who needs such allies will betray the same Russia as soon as possible ... It’s still alive the Soviet generation, Russia still has a chance to get closer to everyone by reviewing its policy, and the Russian Federation fails amusing itself with its power and impunity, with the generation change in neighboring countries, the Russian Federation will become completely alien to all these states, and the population will be considered as a hostile country after the current and the previous leadership of the Russian Federation.
    1. Uralean
      Uralean 31 August 2013 21: 34 New
      +3
      Oh, he said such a thing that it’s time to grab his head ... I, my dear, I also go to Ukraine all the time, my brother and nephews with their families live there, as well as other acquaintances, and I just as well see how well they live in Ukraine .. And why are you living in Ukraine better than me? What do you have so much better? No bribery? Yes, as much as you want, so at the crossing near Novoazovsk, the DAI post stops every Russian car, and they tear bribes, for any reason and without .. So, because the numbers are Russian .. I’ve paid a lot of bills for travel on Ukrainian roads .. Or maybe better on a worldly level? So I have seen enough of this in Nikolaev, Voznesensk, Yuzhnoukrainsk, and other places ... There is no need to idealize a better life in Ukraine relative to Russia ... And here people live differently .. There are poor people, there are average people , there are both Rich and alegarchs .. Who, who is more, still needs to be seen, but this is a completely different topic ..
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 31 August 2013 22: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: Druid
      from "high-quality" Russian products can be bent.

      Since you have not yet bent, it means that you have not tried our quality product yet, and you are afraid to try your own family ... On the western candy substitute, you are adding on. Anyway! Ladies shit of course not, but any other natural product is missing. In the light of upcoming events - it is very far-sighted ... I advise you to switch to frying pancakes in palm oil as soon as possible, and put gelatin in dumplings. Just then you will be taught this anyway.
      1. xan
        xan 31 August 2013 23: 51 New
        +2
        recently read on the internet, one Russian wrote. He in Ukraine in a small town inherited a house. Came to draw it up. Ofigel of the grocery assortment of local stores, and most importantly, more or less edible, and therefore more expensive, simply can not be found in stores.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 1 September 2013 00: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: xan
          recently read on the internet, one Russian wrote. He in Ukraine in a small town inherited a house. Came to draw it up. Ofigel of the grocery assortment of local stores, and most importantly, more or less edible, and therefore more expensive, simply can not be found in stores.

          Most likely the town of the so-called "endangered". These are towns that were built during the Soviet era for the sake of one large plant ... After the collapse, the plant bends, the town dies out ... no work, no money, everyone who can leave. And those who remain eke out a miserable existence, actually only in such towns and similar stores can be found
        2. Aeneas
          Aeneas 1 September 2013 07: 18 New
          +1
          golat with us.
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  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 31 August 2013 20: 58 New
    +2
    Let the Ukrainians themselves solve this difficult problem. What they decide, so be it!
  • Uralean