Military Review

Forward! Fight! Peacetime costs are a large number of heroes.

55
The first feeling that war is not only heroic films, books and stories of veterans, but first and foremost hard work came to me when I was a young fighter in the forests of Yaroslavl, a border cadet. Everything was unexpected - starting from daily physical exertion, when shooting was perceived as a rest, and ending with food, when gingerbread, thickly smeared with jam, was eaten by the whole platoon after the end. Then this feeling became stronger and even aggravated - after working on the subject of the "MSV on the offensive" we "attacked" the positions of the platoon of first-year students, who, respectively, defended themselves. From this training attack, two sensations remained in my memory: unpleasant, bordering on fear, when a freshman aimed me at the sight, and the second - enthusiastic, when, jumping over the trench with this cadet, and firing a blank at the parapet next to him, I saw his startle ... Then there were still many training and combat-training episodes, both funny and unpleasant, but these became a kind of landmarks.
Then there was every kind of life, the passion for military romance gradually turned into a serious interest in military conflicts, from there, in connection with the change of activity, to an interest in propaganda, ideology, etc. But interest in military topics remained. Books, documents, testimonies, our and foreign, frankly biased and with a claim to objectivity.


Forward! Fight! Peacetime costs are a large number of heroes.


The realization that war is not only hard work, but also a very heroic death came when a sufficiently adult man first saw the remains of Soviet soldiers thrown out of the grave (nurses) by some marauders. Actually, it was ours that we managed to establish only by fragments of straps and a pair of sleeves from the “three” found nearby. This picture made an indelible impression on me, brought up in the spirit of the words “the war is not over until it is buried ...”, which were spoken by large and small heads for almost my whole life. So indelible that to the question of a much more experienced friend: “See how our soldiers defended the Motherland?” I answered, almost without thinking: “I see how Motherland took care of its protectors”.

Then there was a lot - nurses, planned, mounted, whole and broken, with bullets and shrapnel, buried by our and Germans ... And the traces of the war. Everywhere. The trenches, craters, unexploded ordnance, and - helmets, paddles, and shoe soles - are signs of what our fighters "raised" here. Lot. And mostly - the unknown. 3 signed "bomber" from 7 to 400 dead - a normal ratio. It was better, but rarely. Raised everywhere. In the swamp, where it is not easy to reach, a couple of hundred meters from the bridge, next to the village. The three extremes - not far from their own camp, where everything seemed to have been done up and "phoned".

There were also stories of local residents, in the villages of which the front stood a whole year. There are all sorts of stories too. But always - not heroic, but ordinary. "The Germans shot", "our grandfather was killed by our bomb" ... The phrase of the old grandmother, "they fought terribly ...” struck the memory. And for what? And this “for what?” Issued somewhere noticed, but now its own conclusion: the war is gray.

And all this is remembered now when you read posts on this forum calling for “striking,” “launching attacks,” juggling air defense divisions and fleets Navy, divisions and squadrons. The unpleasant feeling does not even arise from the fact that those who offer all this do not understand elementary purely technical military problems such as the delivery of the S-300 battalion to Syria or the preparation for landing of an airborne division in the Middle East. It arises from the fact that these people are just as easily juggling with the lives of soldiers, competing in who will put them at stake in an incomprehensible dump on all sides. But war and some Command & Conquer are completely different things. War is not a toy.
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  1. deman73
    deman73 30 August 2013 08: 25 New
    17
    War is a hard daily work, consisting of sweat of blood and nerves, and most importantly, responsibility for myself and my subordinates - I know for myself
    1. svp67
      svp67 30 August 2013 08: 33 New
      20
      War is also dirt, both earthly and "human", as well as the best that happens in the life of men ... It is different, but always merciless to people, since a person will forever become different. A man who wants war, just to fight, requires isolation from society. And of course they are very sorry for the civilians, they always get double in the war - from each of their warring parties ...
      1. Rosomaha67
        Rosomaha67 30 August 2013 09: 03 New
        14
        .... I agree that the "old" soldier can confirm that the main impressions of the war are dirt "on the ears" and blood, well, and perhaps almost constant fatigue (during continuous hostilities) and only the rarest, brightest memories of the rest , celebrating a friend’s birthday, some festive concert, and if with the arrival of a "team" of artists, then all in all!
    2. Civil
      Civil 30 August 2013 09: 04 New
      16
      What I’m trying to tell computer fighters about, 137 men left the village with my grandfather to the front ... 3 returned ...
      1. Owl
        Owl 30 August 2013 09: 21 New
        10
        I fully understand and support your opinion. Who "worked" knows what it is. Any work is more or less difficult, and the “work” to defend the Homeland, to fight the Enemy is not only dangerous but also imposes responsibility for its Actions, for its actions, for the actions of its subordinates, for preparedness for death and for the destruction of the enemy , for being prepared to carry out their task with minimal losses (better without losses). Whoever fought does not want to fight, but this is our "work", which means that "work" is necessary.
    3. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 30 August 2013 12: 40 New
      +8
      Many thanks to the author for these words. Honestly, people who dream of conquering something got me too: American Alaska, Japanese Hokkaido, Finland, Crimea, etc. Who want to bring grief to a foreign (and their own land too). It’s a shame to consider them people. So, "keyboard characters."
      Just a moment: Russia is the largest country in the world. We have enough land to master and populate it. Build normal houses and roads for people. Make sure that at least a large part of the population lives in abundance. Why do the war-losing Germany and Japan live better than us, the victors, although they have a small territory and no resources? Because they realized that war is an extreme that should be avoided. And such "heroes" must be collected and sent to Syria. Let them fight themselves if they so wish, and normal people still have to raise the country after all these Yakunins and Serdyukovs.
    4. OffenroR
      OffenroR 30 August 2013 16: 59 New
      0
      Speaking of nerves. I've always been surprised that the generals of the Second World War (and not only), having gone through so many difficulties (after all, they were responsible for the lives of hundreds of thousands of soldiers), they literally wore out their bodies, but they lived up to 80-90 years! German in particular ... having gone through so many trials and even after the war, spent 5-10 years in prison (for war crimes, which they deserved), they managed to live in health for so many years. I generally keep silent about the soldiers ...
      1. OffenroR
        OffenroR 30 August 2013 17: 04 New
        +1
        All the same, difficult times, war, deprivation ... temper a person better than any other things and situations ...
  2. Tatarus
    Tatarus 30 August 2013 08: 29 New
    13
    But war and some Command & Conquer are completely different things. War is not a toy.

    The horror of war should not stop the desire to defend the homeland.
    Fear of pain should not interfere with protecting relatives.
    The filth of hostilities should not impede an emotional impulse. Even if he is youthful.
    Overcoming fear becomes stronger. Any fear. A dark room, a tall tree, the first kiss, the first fight, the first enemy killed, the first wound, the first NO at the request of the child ... The list is endless. Per article +
    1. serge-68-68
      30 August 2013 08: 41 New
      11
      I agree. But all this should make think those politicians who send soldiers to war. And especially - those people who wave their tongues - like a broom.
    2. svp67
      svp67 30 August 2013 08: 45 New
      +4
      Quote: Tatarus
      Dark room, tall tree, first kiss, first fight, first enemy killed, first wounded, first NO at the request of the child ...
      Strange, but for some reason it was most remembered and struck by the nerves, the first death of a friend ... he just talked to him, drank tea, and now he is "200", but somehow you got it ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 August 2013 08: 53 New
        +8
        And most of all I remember the chronic total lack of sleep.
        And the weather. I don’t remember that she was at least once normal. It’s wet, cold and mud pulling rubber boots off its feet, then it’s hot and dusty
        1. serge-68-68
          30 August 2013 08: 59 New
          10
          It was ... He slept even near the engine compartment of a working APC. The habit of falling asleep anywhere and almost immediately, as soon as left alone, remained to this day. :)
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 30 August 2013 09: 05 New
            +4
            Yes, this is not Command & Conquer.
        2. Stas57
          Stas57 30 August 2013 09: 37 New
          +3
          And most of all I remember the chronic total lack of sleep.
          And the weather. I don’t remember that she was at least once normal. It’s wet, cold and mud pulling rubber boots off its feet, then it’s hot and dusty

          lack of sleep, cold and hunger after jitters
        3. Nayhas
          Nayhas 30 August 2013 14: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: Spade
          And most of all I remember the chronic total lack of sleep.

          true, fatigue, damp dank, cold ...
          I also remember how one guy played the guitar, played shitty and, in addition, burred, and everyone listened to him in complete silence as a brilliant musician, and so he made his soul ...
    3. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 30 August 2013 10: 47 New
      +1
      I agree. But you need to know about all sides of the coin.
  3. S-200
    S-200 30 August 2013 08: 35 New
    +6
    War - D.E.R.M.O! and this is the worst offspring of mankind ...
    1. Tatarus
      Tatarus 30 August 2013 08: 42 New
      +4
      And not really into it
      Quote: S-200
      SHIT
      for the sake of family, friends and loved ones do not climb?
      1. S-200
        S-200 30 August 2013 08: 45 New
        +7
        have to...
        1. Tatarus
          Tatarus 30 August 2013 08: 54 New
          +5
          Quote: S-200
          have to...


          This is called ADULT

          PLUS YOU MEN
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 August 2013 08: 49 New
        +6
        A lot for what you can climb. But she still remains D.
        1. Tatarus
          Tatarus 30 August 2013 08: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          A lot for what you can climb. But she still remains D.


          This is called ADULT

          PLUS YOU MEN
          1. Grenz
            Grenz 30 August 2013 12: 57 New
            0
            Shovels.
            The word is not for us. With all the r ... anyway, let's go and have to.
  4. Stas57
    Stas57 30 August 2013 09: 03 New
    +1
    to everyone who wants to show someone, bomb, shoot, blow up, I propose to introduce myself here
    http://youtu.be/TO3QgUMTm0E
    in the role of tankers
    and here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hVxTTUcIlk&feature=player_embedded
    as runaways
    18 + video

    although the answer is obvious - “Well, we would have shown them how to”, it’s always easy to fight on the couch with beer
    1. Tatarus
      Tatarus 30 August 2013 09: 08 New
      14
      So what? Do not protect the house? Leave my wife to shame, children to death? Do you even know the difference between fear and wet pants? Yes, scary, but dirty. So what? Bend down and wait until democratize? I do not understand. I was 20 years old, I accompany the girl. Three at the entrance. They called her a slut. All older and healthier. It was scary. He fell into a stupor. He looked at her and realized that it was worse in her eyes to remain a scumbag. After 15 minutes, an ambulance took me. Nose fracture, broken kidneys ... And the understanding that I am definitely a MAN. And it’s still scary when I meet such people. But it’s worse to lose the feeling that I am a MAN. So far, so I don’t hesitate to BE AFRAID.
      1. Tatarus
        Tatarus 30 August 2013 09: 21 New
        +1
        Is it a minus one?
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 30 August 2013 09: 32 New
          +2
          Is it a minus one?

          I grew up from that age
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 30 August 2013 09: 29 New
        +2
        why does one your head speak with your second head answering me?
        if you don’t have the opportunity to read and evaluate the text normally, then why write something else? About the girl and your experience of fear.

        I repeat, for both heads- sitting on the couch, it’s very easy to give advice on how to do it — where to run, how to jump, how to shoot, etc.

        As correctly noted, war is filth, blood and meanness.
        On the couch, it is perceived as a TV show, I doubt that someone who wants to smash something is ready to burn in the tank, to be shot like in the video above.
        What the author says in conclusion.
        verstanden?
        1. Tatarus
          Tatarus 30 August 2013 09: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Stas57
          for both heads


          On their own people are not judged


          Quote: Stas57
          As correctly noted, war is filth, blood and meanness


          totally agree

          Quote: Stas57
          On the couch, it is perceived as a TV show, I doubt that someone who wants to smash something is ready to burn in the tank, to be shot like in the video above.


          You can’t argue here either.

          BUT does it YOU can stop from protecting relatives and friends?
      3. Raptor75
        Raptor75 30 August 2013 10: 43 New
        +3
        It was like me. I’ll add another thing - the worst thing is to lose respect for yourself. You can’t fool yourself ...
      4. Setrac
        Setrac 31 August 2013 10: 02 New
        0
        Quote: Tatarus
        He fell into a stupor. He looked at her and realized that it was worse in her eyes to remain a scumbag.

        How touching. Are you asking for a medal?
        Do you know the girl well? And what, she was beaten and raped? You didn’t protect her.
        If the girl was not touched, then the lads were quite adequate, though not restrained in words, and were you the only inadequate? Surely these three lived either in this porch or nearby.
        Quote: Tatarus
        So far, so I don’t hesitate to BE AFRAID.

        Modesty is a virtue.
        Quote: Tatarus
        And the understanding that I’m definitely a MAN.

        To defend a dubious girl in the gateway and to defend their country on the battlefield are phenomena of different orders.
    2. Tatarus
      Tatarus 30 August 2013 09: 23 New
      -1
      Dear, answer the question. Why do you write such alarmist comments? recourse
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 30 August 2013 09: 43 New
        +1
        you were there?
        or your stories about fear are hooligans and reeling from cops?
        but at the expense of alarmism, try to read what you wrote and answer, are you all so heroic now in Syria, Afghanistan, to the edge in Makhachkala?
        Or at home, drinking coffee?
        The war is bad, it is for a long time, you can’t turn it off as a computer, and you won’t go to buy the thought of playing tomorrow, do you understand this idea of ​​the author?
        1. Tatarus
          Tatarus 30 August 2013 09: 57 New
          0
          Quote: Stas57
          Or at home, drinking coffee?


          There is no home and no coffee.


          Quote: Stas57
          or your stories about fear are hooligans and reeling from cops?



          Here from modern cops it is sometimes very scary. Well, then you’re definitely a combatant and law enforcement

          Quote: Stas57
          but at the expense of alarmism, try to read what you wrote and answer, are you all so heroic now in Syria, Afghanistan, to the edge in Makhachkala?


          Well, are you even in Makhachkala?


          Quote: Stas57
          you were there?


          THERE ... I am very afraid to get there, afraid to be scared and betray. I'm afraid not to save and quit. And I really hope that the Lord will either protect me or support me. But if it is THERE coming to me in the yard? How should I behave? Prompt you our experienced.
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 30 August 2013 10: 15 New
            0
            But if it is THERE coming to me in the yard? How should I behave? Prompt you our experienced.

            you absolutely can not read.
            I repeat for the last time for you, in the words of the TS

            And all this is remembered now when you read posts on this forum calling for “striking,” “launching attacks,” juggling air defense divisions and naval fleets, divisions and squadrons. An unpleasant sensation does not even arise from the fact that those who offer all this do not understand elementary purely technical military problems such as the delivery of the C-300 division to Syria or the preparation for landing of an airborne division in the Middle East region. It arises from the fact that these people are just as easily juggling with the lives of soldiers, competing in who will put them at stake in an incomprehensible dump on all sides. But war and some Command & Conquer are completely different things. War is not a toy.

            You understand that many people want to do it THERE HERE and now, assuming that they can exit the game at any time having survived.
            I suggest that you introduce yourself to them in the place of a tanker, or a fleeing spirit, that’s all, cowardice, fear, alarmism leave for yourself

            BUT does it YOU can stop from protecting relatives and friends?

            you still talk to yourself, all that I wanted to say I said, everything else is your speculation.
            I’m finishing up on this, I don’t dare to distract you anymore, you need to get ready, September 1 on the nose.
    3. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 30 August 2013 10: 58 New
      0
      The first video is turned off from YouTube, the second is the infantry defeat range, with at least 1200m, with the complete absence of at least a memory or MANPADS-unpunished shooting.
      The thermal imager is a good thing, yes, but then there is then its use against whom?
      The crew of this helicopter would be able to aim and shoot calmly, as in a shooting range, under conditions of counteraction even by infantry air defense, MANPADS ARROW or Zu 23 -2 with the same thermal imager7
      So the example is not entirely successful.
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 30 August 2013 11: 32 New
        0
        Here is the confirmation, from our own resource, could that turntable crew pour water on spirits with impunity, if they had one or two of them?
        http://topwar.ru/32575-raketno-artilleriyskaya-zushka-modernizaciya-zu-23.html
        The war is certainly not sugar, far from sugar, but the fact that in the war it is immediately clear who is his own and who is a stranger and his whole soul out, it is clear who is who, this is a fact.
        In peacetime, there are no such mutual relations.
  5. creak
    creak 30 August 2013 09: 08 New
    +6
    I completely agree with the author. War is hard exhausting work, it is sweat, dirt and blood, and not just bombing, shelling and minefields ... Those who are in peacetime ready to tear everyone to shreds and throw their hats on are shocked after the first serious alteration. reality fundamentally overturns their previous ideas about the war, gleaned from books and movies. I know this from my own experience. At one time I had a chance to participate in hostilities in the Middle East and had a chance to experience something where 50 degrees heat, sandstorms, scorpions and other charms were added to the usual hardships of war ... Other amenities of everyday life in a country where people live by their own, often medieval rules, I’ll omit the rules ... omit. Unfortunately, amateurs prefer not to think about this to play someone else's life, without risking their own.
  6. Sochi
    Sochi 30 August 2013 09: 15 New
    +3
    War is not a toy ... For whom it is, for those who fight - blood, sweat, fear; For those who unleash wars - it’s a toy, though often fatal ...
  7. Storm
    Storm 30 August 2013 09: 46 New
    0
    Yes, war is not a game. and by all means you need to avoid it. But if you understand that they won’t leave you alone, and you have to fight, you need to fight. Overcome fear and trembling nerves. To fight (fight) is necessary not only when they are beaten. It is foolish to wait for you to be hit if you understand that a fight is inevitable. If this is obvious, hit first, at least it will already give you an edge. And one more thing: now such a thing as honor has already gone. The honor of a girl, the honor of an officer, the honor of the state. Our own skin is more expensive - this is the motto of our time. For the sake of honor, it’s also worth fighting. At least you will feel like a man.
  8. il grand casino
    il grand casino 30 August 2013 09: 47 New
    +4
    When I was little, my grandfather talked about the war ... it was interesting. Then my father went to war ... on a business trip. When he returned, I realized with my childhood mind that war is bad ... when later my brother went to a completely different war, I already knew with a slightly matured mind that it was shitty ... but when he returned and began to tell me as an adult ... then it became really scary. Although it’s probably impossible to understand what it is without having been there. I hope my children will never look at me with the same eyes as I do at a changed, gray-haired father ... or a wounded brother.
  9. Zlodei
    Zlodei 30 August 2013 09: 49 New
    +3
    Often, as a boy, he imagined me and my comrades in the trench before the attack ... and here he is, a call to the offensive: “FORWARD !!!” ... Then firing, hand-to-hand fighting, all bullets naturally fly past me, and I heroically lift up the victorious banner on the command post of the defeated enemy. How good to be a child after all ...
    Over time, the war ceased to seem so heroic and romantic to me. After all, just imagine, every second someone can aim at you, or maybe already shot, and then your military adventures can end before they even begin. Plus, many-kilometer marching throws at night, through the mud, with a heavy, not very comfortable backpack and arms at the ready, it’s hard to imagine a person who is used to spending his leisure time sitting in the evening at a TV or computer. In addition, it is difficult to imagine, in greenhouse conditions, an explosion of mines or streamers, the screams and death of comrades, terrible wounds, severed limbs, and blood mixed with earth.
    I judge the war very conditionally, because I’m not a military man, but I can say for sure, they shout about the need to transfer troops somewhere, start fighting and other nonsense, those who were born and matured nourished by the kharch of peacetime, and brought up by all sorts of bourgeois “shooters” "
    I’ll end up like this, I’m not a coward and consider myself a patriot, of course, it is necessary to protect our national interests, but WAR is an extreme tool and speculation on this topic has never led anyone to good!
  10. alone
    alone 30 August 2013 09: 56 New
    +1
    war is scary. but unfortunately, sometimes this is the only way to solve certain problems. Homeland should be protected. And if necessary, and DIE.
    1. OffenroR
      OffenroR 30 August 2013 16: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: lonely
      war is scary. but unfortunately, sometimes this is the only way to solve certain problems. Homeland should be protected. And if necessary, and DIE.

      Defend, not die .... I think ... if you stay alive and can shred more enemies ... then there will be more sense from you as from the defender of the Motherland soldier
  11. ed65b
    ed65b 30 August 2013 10: 10 New
    +2
    mother-in-law the village was also under the Germans were tankers, the position is still as dug yesterday. the hospital in the village was German, now a school, a new building this year they built so many “good” digging. but the attitude towards the Germans is not so straightforward. they didn’t atrocities, didn’t marand, Patzanve stole cigarettes from the Fritz, a belt on the pope. There were no partisans since there were no forests. In general, see where it was. The father told in the Bryansk region 2 times the German saw when they advanced and when they retreated. the rest of the time they lived according to the laws of the USSR collective farmers.
    In general, you’re right, friends, we don’t need a war, not big, not small. our children, friends, and simply unfamiliar to us, but dear Russians, will die.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 30 August 2013 14: 12 New
      0
      Edward! Not in the subject, of course (just Bryansk was heard). But today on the news showed. I personally have no decent words for this: http: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = Pc0aC5MsM38 # t = 24
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 30 August 2013 18: 18 New
        0
        Quote: retired
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc0aC5MsM38#t=24

        Yesterday I looked, well, idiots, you just what can I say, they rekriatirovat youth. The leaders of this enterprise are the same from young and early. We have corrupted our memory for 20 years, and this is the result.
  12. Horn
    Horn 30 August 2013 10: 31 New
    +5
    Several times visited Donetsk, Minsk, Gomel and Zhlobin. I remember the first feeling that the history of the city beyond the Urals is not that in the European part. To see on the wall of the building "The Gestapo was located here during the war years" ... It catches strongly. Like graves with stars just in a forest in Belarus. The terrible thing is war ...
  13. Vtel
    Vtel 30 August 2013 11: 11 New
    +2
    "Goodbye Boys" Bulat Okudzhava

    Ah war, what did you do mean
    Our yards have become quiet
    Our boys raised their heads
    They have matured for the time being

    On the doorstep barely loomed
    And the soldiers went after the soldier
    Goodbye boys boys
    Try to go back

    No don't hide you be tall
    Spare no bullets or grenades
    And you do not spare yourself, and yet
    Try to go back

    Ah war, what have you done mean
    Instead of weddings, separation and smoke
    Our girls dresses are white
    They gave to their sisters

    Well, where are you going to get boots
    Yes green wings epaulette
    You spit on the gossip girls
    We will settle scores with them later

    Let them talk that you have nothing to believe
    What are you going at random
    Goodbye girls girls
    Try to go back
    Goodbye girls girls
    Try to go back

    Russia is the most warlike country, in the sense that it was not she who started the war and their mother was not burning. Now the front passes through us to Syria itself, the truly peaceful axis of the Earth has shifted, what will happen to God alone and if we believe in it, then as the Apostle Paul says to the Romans: “If God is for us, who is against us? Who didn’t spare His Son, but betrayed Him for all of us, how will He not give us everything with Him? "
  14. Kolyan 2
    Kolyan 2 30 August 2013 11: 27 New
    +3
    .... I agree that as an “old” soldier I can confirm that the main impressions of the war are dirt "on the ears" and blood, well, and perhaps almost constant fatigue (during continuous hostilities)
    But this is also the relationship between people, I remember them with warmth. In peacetime, there are no such relationships between people, with the exception of friends. hi
  15. xan
    xan 30 August 2013 12: 26 New
    +2
    I agree that the war is fucking
    And I want to remind the pacifists and sykuns of the simple and clear wisdom of the ancients - if you want peace, prepare for war
    and one more thing - the more determined you are ready to fight and die, the less likely you are to need it.
    And from this point of view, I am for those who are not afraid to fight, and I can not stand those who whine in advance.
    War is hard and scary, it is hard, highly skilled work, specialists must deal with it. But this does not mean that war must be feared and avoided by all means. Our ancestors were not afraid, and our enemies are not made of iron and are not immortal
    And even more annoying are the military, revealing the secret that the war is scary and difficult. Everyone knows about this. They also know that in a war with a serious opponent, the one who is ready to die will win. And the military should be ready for this.
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 30 August 2013 14: 32 New
      +1
      - "Si vis pacem-para bellum ..." Well, since we have swung at the legacy of Rome, let me recall the following "military" parable: The son of one of the Roman commanders offered to sacrifice a certain number of personnel in order to take a more advantageous position, “- Would you like to be among these few?” - asked the father ...
      1. Vlad 1965
        Vlad 1965 30 August 2013 15: 06 New
        0
        In war, as in war, you will not be asked if it is necessary for the sake of a higher purpose, to give your life in exchange for success and saving hundreds of other lives. If you do not understand this, then your fate is worth it to you, in the war, refuse to fulfill order, your fate, the nearest pit.
        What is reconnaissance in battle? And what is ayeragrad?
        What is "I'm dying but not giving up?"
        But judging by your words, the one who scratched these words, could just give up, do not you find that you would prefer to give up?
        "Si vis pacem-para bellum ...- SO and only as soon as ROME forgot these words, he collapsed.
        1. saygon66
          saygon66 30 August 2013 17: 17 New
          +1
          - "Don’t beg for war, but don’t refuse to send ..." That Roman who besieged the greyhound son, Went with his fighters. Will you lead me into reconnaissance in battle? Will you stay with me to cover the rear guard? Or will you grant the honorable right to die undefeated? And so - you buzz beautifully ...
          1. xan
            xan 30 August 2013 23: 11 New
            0
            Quote: saygon66
            And so - you buzz beautifully.

            you are buzzing
            and that Roman pope is not a commander
            Napoleon’s words, I don’t remember how folding it is - a real commander should be able to drown his cavalry in the river, but he must understand why this should be done.
            1. saygon66
              saygon66 2 September 2013 18: 04 New
              0
              -Quint Fabius Maxim Kuntator - commander and statesman. 275-203 BC Consul, twice appointed by the dictator, TSB 1969.
  16. Grenz
    Grenz 30 August 2013 12: 28 New
    +1
    Death Valley near Mozhaisk. Any trip for mushrooms and such a cross. Land mines, shells and bones squeezes. First, like that, and then everyone along with the monument. The place of death of the 32nd division of the commander Polosukhin (fighting in the encirclement), which defended the Borodino field.
    And in Yaroslavl, by the way, they taught well, hardening for life!
  17. Stiletto
    Stiletto 30 August 2013 12: 36 New
    +2
    Well, everything, ran from one extreme to another. That all of a sudden “hawks”, then, as one, “pacifists”, revealing to themselves and others a “sudden revelation” that war is sweat, blood and dirt. Let’s now add the branch “bad and incorrect command orders” with the option “discuss” here.
  18. nnz226
    nnz226 30 August 2013 12: 45 New
    +6
    As my father said: “There is a Russian word:“ NECESSARY! ”“ That's all. I have to! - and in the trenches you will go into the mud and cold, and into a lack of sleep with hunger. I have to! - and you’ll climb under a tank with a grenade if the wounded are in the funnel behind, and you are alone, and if the tank passes through you, then it will be wound around the tracks. And so everywhere and always!
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 30 August 2013 12: 58 New
      +4
      Quote: nnz226
      As my father said: “There is a Russian word:“ NECESSARY! ”“ That's all. I have to! - and in the trenches you will go into the mud and cold, and into a lack of sleep with hunger. I have to! - and you’ll climb under a tank with a grenade if the wounded are in the funnel behind, and you are alone, and if the tank passes through you, then it will be wound around the tracks. And so everywhere and always!

      no bazaar, plus
  19. tank64rus
    tank64rus 30 August 2013 13: 29 New
    +2
    War is dirt, sweat, blood, fear, fatigue, hunger. and the desire to sleep, meanness and Heroism and all this together. But we have one country and it needs to be protected. About those who have several foreign passports and no money abroad, these are traitors.
  20. saygon66
    saygon66 30 August 2013 14: 38 New
    +1
    -Some kind of crap property of human nature: eyewitnesses recalled that, when the war was declared, (World War I) people in the square sobbed in ecstasy and sounded the national anthem! Later, of course, shelling and gas thoroughly thinned the ranks of enthusiasts ...
    1. xan
      xan 30 August 2013 23: 22 New
      0
      Quote: saygon66
      eyewitnesses recalled that, when the war was declared, (World War I), people in the square sobbed in ecstasy and sounded the national anthem!

      better than running into caches and going into hocks.
      Quote: saygon66
      Later, of course, shelling and gas thoroughly thinned the ranks of enthusiasts ...

      the ranks of enthusiasts were thinned out by the inability of the tsarist government and the tsar to personally mobilize the whole society for war without exception. If the chmyry were to be shot in the rear, and the right personnel policy at the front would be enthusiasm and victory. Stalin showed how to mobilize for victory.
  21. Storm
    Storm 30 August 2013 15: 30 New
    -1
    What you called the crap property of human nature is very similar to patriotic feelings
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 30 August 2013 17: 36 New
      0
      -That’s what they’re like ... When I was serving an emergency, like many, I wrote a report on Afghanistan, I signed a contract in 95, I don’t know if this is good or bad, I didn’t get into the war. My father spent two years in Afghanistan, near Jalalabad, my brother was an ADO technician at An-12, I know many who fought, not one of them falls into ecstasy at the word "war." I myself had a chance to "see the war" in the 340 military hospital in Tashkent, my sister served in the TBI department there ... It seems to me that the meaning of the article can be expressed with the following saying: "Don’t ask for a war, send it, don’t refuse!
  22. schta
    schta 30 August 2013 15: 31 New
    0
    To see what today's war is, just open YouTube. Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria. here is the war. look.
  23. Grenz
    Grenz 31 August 2013 16: 01 New
    0
    ed65
    nnz226 As my father said: "There is a Russian word:" NECESSARY! "...


    Of course it’s too late to add, it is unlikely that anyone will already read comments, but still an addition to the right thoughts. Famous teacher V.A. Sukhomlinsky, speaking of the best human qualities - emphasized, as he believed, the main thing - DEBT. This means - it is NECESSARY to do what is good for the Homeland, no matter how it relates to you. True, this was pronounced a long time ago and there are, of course, those who do not like this statement. But everyone has the right to have an opinion.