Military Review

Rocket-artillery "Zushka": modernization of ZU-23

80
At the end of the fifties of the last century, the ZU-23 anti-aircraft gun was created, which received the nickname "Zushka" in the troops. At that time, the rate of fire at the level of 2 thousand rounds per minute, the power of 23 mm ammunition, the firing range of up to 2,5 kilometers and the accuracy of the fire were sufficient to perform a wide range of tasks. However, after several decades, due to the active development of the military aviation and its ammunition, the characteristics of the ZU-23 do not allow to effectively reflect air strikes. Considering the large number of anti-aircraft guns preserved in the troops, several years ago various design organizations of the defense industry began work on modernization options for the ZU-23, designed to bring about the characteristics of this weapons to acceptable values.


Rocket-artillery "Zushka": modernization of ZU-23


The Podolsk Electromechanical Plant (PEMZ Spetsmash) showed its new development at the Innovation Day of the Ministry of Defense exhibition held a few days ago. Spetsmash designers have created another original version of the modernization of the outdated ZU-23. As stated, the anti-aircraft installation ZU-23 / 30М1-3 in its capabilities is many times greater than the original design half a century ago.

As a basis for the installation of the ZU-23 / 30М1-3, the slightly modified ZU-23 with the original 2А14 machines, a gun carriage, a wheel drive, etc. was taken. At the same time, several new units were introduced into the installation. To the right of the guns, above the ammunition box, the ZU-23 / 30М1-3 is mounted with an electronics unit with means for detecting and tracking targets. The anti-aircraft gunner, whose workplace is to the left of the guns, independently or with third-party help, finds the target and roughly directs it with guns and an aiming system. Next, the opto-electronic unit with a thermal imaging channel and a laser rangefinder takes aim at the automatic tracking and calculates the necessary lead values.

At this time, the anti-aircraft gunner ZU-23 / 30М1-3 can monitor the progress of combat work using a monitor installed at its workplace and make necessary corrections through the control panel. Accompanying the goal is carried out automatically, so that the gunner can only give the appropriate command and open fire. An interesting feature of the ZU-23 / 30М1-3 is the fact that automation not only independently calculates all the parameters necessary for firing, but also induces guns without human intervention.

If necessary, the updated ZU-23 can hit targets with guided missiles. To this end, Igla-S man-portable air defense systems are mounted on a special bracket above the guns. MANPADS are connected to the general fire control system, after which their combat use is possible. The principle of operation of the missile-artillery system when using missiles is somewhat similar to the algorithm for firing from guns. The gunner must also find the target and turn on its automatic tracking. Next, the rocket homing head finds a target and a launch is possible.




As far as is clear from the available information, the whole modernization of the ZU-23 anti-aircraft installation made at PEMZ Spetsmash concerned exclusively electromechanical and electronic systems. In this regard, the firing characteristics of the updated artillery system remained the same. ZU-23 / 30М1-3, like the original Zushka, is capable of effectively hitting low-speed targets like strike airplanes and helicopters at distances up to 2,5 and altitudes up to 1,5 kilometer. The rate of fire is up to 1000 rounds per minute on each barrel. After installing the electronic equipment, the ZU-23 / 30М1-3 was noticeably heavier in comparison with the original design, but there are no exact data on this.

In general, it can be recognized that the modernization of the outdated ZU-23 anti-aircraft installation, carried out at the Podolsk Electromechanical Plant, does significantly increase the combat potential of the artillery system. However, due to the use of the old and inconsistent with the original requirements of the original design, the new installation ZU-23 / 30М1-3 in the conditions of a real war is likely to receive only limited use. The fact is that the development of air attacks has long allowed aircraft and helicopters to hit ground targets without entering the zone of action of anti-aircraft systems like ZU-23.

However, despite the insufficient characteristics of the artillery unit, the installation of the ZU-23 / 30М1-3 has several interesting features that greatly enhance its combat potential and capabilities in wartime conditions. Compatibility with missiles, even with short-range MANPADS (the range of the Igla-S complex is up to 6 kilometers), significantly increases the range of the entire anti-aircraft system. In addition, since all surveillance and tracking equipment, with the exception of a laser rangefinder, does not emit anything while on duty or combat, ZU-23 / 30М1-3 can be very effective for repelling air raids at night. The only condition necessary for full-fledged work in such an environment is additional external target detection at the approach to the zone of defeat of an anti-aircraft gun and target designation.

Due to the insufficient characteristics of the initial artillery installation, the project ZU-23 / 30М1-3 may still remain at the development and testing stage, without interest of potential customers. At the same time, a large number of ZU-23 anti-aircraft installations and active deliveries of these weapons to friendly countries that have been practiced in the past can help the PEMZ Spetsmash project find its niche. An electronics complex that makes ZU-23 / 30М1-3 from “Zushki” is able to interest third countries that are actively using old anti-aircraft systems of Soviet manufacture. It is likely that the modernization of foreign weapons under favorable circumstances in the near future will be the main prerequisite for the widespread use of the ZU-23 / 30М1-3 or other projects of this kind.


On the materials of the sites:
http://rosinform.ru/
http://arms-expo.ru/
http://pvo.guns.ru/
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  1. Iraclius
    Iraclius 30 August 2013 09: 14 New
    11
    Another illustrative example of the strength and vitality of the scientific and technical reserve of the USSR! good
    As an air defense system ZUShka is already outdated, of course, but there are also a sea of ​​other applications. How many lives in the same DRA saved these guns installed in the back of the Urals to our soldiers. Gan-trucks - this is the meaning of the future life of the installation.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 30 August 2013 09: 23 New
      +8
      quote-As a basis for the installation of the ZU-23 / 30М1-3, the slightly modified ZU-23 with original 2A14 submachine guns, a gun carriage, a wheeled drive, etc. was taken.



      1. user
        user 30 August 2013 19: 13 New
        +4
        In a battle with modern air targets, she should live, without electronics, with means of detecting and tracking targets, until the moment of detection.
        As a weapon to cover an object from a ground attack, a terrible thing
    2. Iraclius
      Iraclius 30 August 2013 09: 33 New
      +6
      Examples of application of memory 23.
      ZU-23 on the BTR-D chassis. Pskov Airborne Division. Chechnya


      Zil-131 with memory-23-2, Kandahar province.


      Iran ZSU based on Land Cruiser. There are similar options on the chassis of Simurg



      Soviet version, DRA
    3. Civil
      Civil 30 August 2013 12: 03 New
      +5
      for third world countries it’s completely air defense)
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled 30 August 2013 12: 13 New
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        for third world countries it’s completely air defense)

        good absolutely agree. and not only the "third world". a relatively cheap and not very time-consuming version of the modernization (and increase the combat potential) of the good old and time-tested weapons.
      2. Mister X
        Mister X 30 August 2013 14: 14 New
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        for third world countries it’s completely air defense)

        When it comes to civil war, it’s good.
        But if the "democrats" from the Pentagon rush to them with their modern weapons, then it’s tobacco.
      3. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 30 August 2013 14: 16 New
        +2
        Iran has a similar kind of army. They have everything in jeeps, ATVs, mopeds. Such a light mobile army. MLRS, air defense, ATGM all on light vehicles. And I think we could master this product.
      4. olegff68
        olegff68 30 August 2013 22: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        for third world countries it’s completely air defense)

        And if you add the ability to remotely control the cable and cover the installation and calculation with cleverly-cut capes to mask the ZSU in the radar, calculation and ZSU (ZSU before the shooting) in the IR ranges - we get a very inexpensive and very unpleasant surprise for all that flies no matter how modern it is - IMHO.
        1. anufriev87
          anufriev87 1 September 2013 00: 05 New
          0
          in dreams of course the command post .... there would be means and personnel ....
    4. S-200
      S-200 30 August 2013 12: 32 New
      +9
      Quote: Iraclius
      As the ZUShka air defense system is already out of date, of course

      Tell me, what is the difference to get a bullet from a modern "vintorez" or a Mosin sniper rifle of the 1939 model. using a ballistic computer?
      here it’s also for non (lightly) armored air targets moving at subsonic speeds at low altitudes ... catch a large-caliber line-up in stealth-board with electronics or on the Apache or Tomahawk blades to catch up with the Igloo ..
      if the naval ZRAK "Dagger" has the right to life, then why not land-based ZU-23? Moreover, it will cost less! And the versatility and effectiveness of modernization, even on ground or air targets, is obvious to me ...
      1. S-200
        S-200 30 August 2013 12: 56 New
        +3
        PS Could and supplement with a portable acoustic detection channel!
        and immediately link it into a single information system ...
        at the current level of development of electronics, it’s not so expensive, but the “stray” (to the delight of the Papuans) would have happened with all the Ponte! wassat
        PPS Mudinarizators, with you (for the idea) - just a brandy! wassat
      2. Xroft
        Xroft 30 August 2013 13: 26 New
        +3
        A great weapon to shoot down convertiplanes for a billion green :)
      3. Val_y
        Val_y 30 August 2013 16: 04 New
        +1
        I absolutely agree, the thing is necessary, just such rapid-firing systems (in the Urals, Zils, as well as the 30th BMP-2 and BMD-2 systems) showed exceptional efficiency in Afghanistan, so it's quite a normal and necessary modernization. soldier
        1. krpmlws
          krpmlws 30 August 2013 20: 05 New
          +1
          ZU-23 is well suited for fighting drones. For the army, an upgraded anti-aircraft gun is without a doubt necessary.
  2. vinni
    vinni 30 August 2013 09: 21 New
    +9
    Small spool but precious !!! It may well come in handy in low-intensity conflicts for actions from ambushes ... More than once flashed on TV screens in recent years ... Well done, men! Keep it up...
  3. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 30 August 2013 09: 39 New
    0
    It seems that as a new product will be poorly in demand. If only to count on the modernization of existing storage facilities. In addition, it is possible to make money on upgrading previously delivered abroad if there are orders.
    Specialists, tell me, did the regular ZU-23-2 units in the troops actually remain in principle or did they fully equip the Armed Forces with Air Defense? ...
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 30 August 2013 10: 39 New
      +6
      Quote: Scary Warrant Officer
      in the forces of the regular units ZU-23-2 ... equipped with air defense? ...

      frankly, the fact that the ZU-23-2 were used to organize air defense as a system I can not say anything. never heard of that. but the battery of the SAM system 2K11 "Circle", for example, was equipped with 2 pieces of memory for covering the battery in the near zone. mostly from GPs.



      U-23-2 in a combat position to cover air defense systems. In this case: S-300 battery

      about such a "modernization" ... it is clear that the plant needs to do something, produce something and sell it. only here is the point of milling MANPADS to zero.
    2. Akim
      Akim 30 August 2013 10: 51 New
      +8
      Quote: Scary Warrant Officer
      It seems that as a new product will be poorly in demand. If only to count on the modernization of existing storage facilities.

      Find 10 differences. The first Pilica battery will arrive in the Polish Army next year.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 30 August 2013 15: 31 New
        +1
        While ours are swinging, the Poles will crush the whole market for themselves!
        Oh, there are so many Zushka in Africa and the Middle East! smile
      2. Dmitry Desnyansky
        Dmitry Desnyansky 31 August 2013 00: 09 New
        0
        And with whom will it fight? With a German army?
        Psheki nobody needs, even the European Union. Two words PSYA KREV
  4. Horst78
    Horst78 30 August 2013 09: 40 New
    +1
    Why are the inscriptions in English? Imported equipment?
  5. Seventh
    Seventh 30 August 2013 09: 59 New
    +1
    Maybe I don’t understand something, but the option looks like a cart of civil war with the established "Cliff". Novelty heh ... also dragged to the exhibition.
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 30 August 2013 10: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Seventh
      looks like a cart of civil war with the established "cliff". New heh ...

      The namesake, and she was called - Tachanka.
      Enjoyed well-deserved respect from all.

      And it will serve.
  6. chenia
    chenia 30 August 2013 10: 17 New
    +2
    Oh, such a machine, but at the beginning of the war!
  7. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 30 August 2013 10: 40 New
    +6
    Beauty "Zushka".
    Power in a compact form.
    As a means of air defense it may be outdated, but this installation has not yet survived its age.

    This modernization was a little alarming ...
    On the one hand - it’s very good, of course, that all sorts of pribludy appeared on it,
    But now it is slightly devoid of its main qualities: simplicity and reliability.
    I hope that they will appear in the troops in the right quantity, and will not remain single exhibits of the modernization option.

    If there were more of them, “workhorses”, just on their shoulders lies the accompaniment of all kinds of different “ribbons”.
  8. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 30 August 2013 10: 43 New
    +8
    Here they are, the Urus-Martan "Tachanochki" ...
    Pretty women.

    Now they put it on a base with an armored cabin. Will serve more.
  9. abc_alex
    abc_alex 30 August 2013 10: 50 New
    +6
    Here, too, the feeling that they are not upgrading it does not let me go. As a means of air defense it can not be revived. But as a system for enhancing the firepower of an infantry unit, it is in demand and will be in demand for a long time to come. Why not look at the numerous shush-panzers with her, which our army men and other users of the Zushka compose with enviable persistence and not develop an adequate program for installing the memory on a protected self-propelled chassis?
    1. S-200
      S-200 30 August 2013 12: 37 New
      0
      Quote: abc_alex
      As a means of air defense it can not be revived

      Just it for the near-field defense and modernized ....
    2. iAi
      iAi 5 August 2015 23: 59 New
      0
      The Greeks adopted the BMP-1 and ZU-23-2The Greeks adopted the BMP-1 and ZU-23-2
      The Greeks have already done as you said and officially adopted: BMP-1 + ZU-23-2 + armored.
      Everything as you ordered.
  10. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 10: 51 New
    +2
    The idea, as they say, is good, but not entirely new ...
    ZUR-23-2S "JOD" - the Polish version of modernization, is in service
    parts of the reserve of the second stage. The anti-aircraft installation is equipped with a new simplified optical sight and two launching devices with 2K32M anti-aircraft missiles (9M32 Strela-2M) with a targeting system. The artillery unit provides obstructive fire, and missiles will provide reliable destruction of the target in the absence of interference. In the fight against ground targets, the effectiveness of the modernized ZU-23 is maintained at the standard installation level.

    ZU-23 on the car "Star-266"

    Yours! hi
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 30 August 2013 12: 32 New
      +5
      Quote: smiths xnumx
      and missiles will provide reliable destruction of the target in the absence of interference.

      and the mandatory shooting of infrared traps at low altitudes has already been canceled?



      MANPADS is good in that the shooter will turn much faster towards the target than the gun mount on the carriage. that with a manual drive, that with the help of motors
  11. Leader
    Leader 30 August 2013 11: 11 New
    +5
    Some nonsense ... ZU-23 as an air defense system has outlived itself.
    It would be better to upgrade to use as a means of supporting infantry, on ground targets.
    On the truck, and even a shield to her.
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 30 August 2013 11: 26 New
      +7
      Quote: Leader
      and even a shield to her.

      Sergey, a foolish invention
      Sorry, so to speak, and with ... protection.
      Khankala option.
      wink
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 30 August 2013 11: 33 New
        +7
        Another use case for this pair.
        I saw armored trains to the Caucasus only in Transbaikalia, under Chita, with armored cars and platforms with the T-62.

        We need such a caliber in the troops, it is very necessary.
        On different media and with maximum protection.
        1. Akim
          Akim 30 August 2013 11: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Aleks tv
          We need such a caliber in the troops, it is very necessary.
          On different media and with maximum protection.

          Georgian Lazika also has 2A14
  12. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 30 August 2013 11: 12 New
    0
    Such modernization of the Zushka makes any vehicle (boat, car) a formidable weapon for army aviation.
    You can continue to upgrade with remote control, an armored module, this will quickly strengthen any object, and the relatively low weight makes the complex mobile.
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 30 August 2013 11: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: Dmitry 2246
      You can continue to upgrade with remote control, armored module

      it will not be modernization anymore, but the creation of a virtually new product. the same tower gun mount, but using a 2A14 gun.
      you can use something more in this case. the fact is that the 23 mm caliber provides little room for improving the ammunition and, therefore, the capabilities of the system. Bofors 40 still remembers dinosaurs and is still in service on land, sea and in the air. that's just the shells are becoming more interesting

      1. Evgeny_Lev
        Evgeny_Lev 30 August 2013 15: 44 New
        0
        Programmable blasting is certainly good.
        I just don’t understand, the projectile that has flown off is pre-programmed? After all, a rocket on a stick is a static target, and a rocket in the sky is dynamic. how the computer calculates the "fuse", because when you aim it uses the distance to the object, measured by a laser or something more than a thread, after the projectile leaves the barrel, the target seriously, outside the radius of expansion of the fragments, changes its location.
  13. krot00f
    krot00f 30 August 2013 11: 14 New
    +1
    It's time to introduce such systems. I think it is necessary to make a new ammunition for 23mm, organize an air gap, then the scope will expand. Although I understand the warehouses are clogged with old shells, they came up with the idea of ​​modifying only the control system. Sooner or later they will replace 12,7 where possible, then by 30mm. The caliber will only increase the power of ammunition to grow.
  14. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 11: 20 New
    +1
    The Iranians put the ZU-23 on the ship:
    1. Akim
      Akim 30 August 2013 11: 26 New
      +1
      Poles too.
    2. smiths xnumx
      smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 12: 11 New
      +3
      Iranian boat with single-barrel ZU-23 and 107 mm MLRS

      Two Finnish companies Instrumentointi Oy and VAMMAS introduced the ZU-23 gun mount an optical sighting system for semi-automatic target tracking, a laser rangefinder, a digital computer, power drives for vertical and horizontal guidance of weapons, and a number of other devices.
      Upgraded Finnish ZU-23

      Based on the captured ZU-23 and the Samil-100 truck, Zumlak ZU was created in South Africa

      In Egypt, the Sinai-23 ZSU was created, including the Zyn-23-2, 4 Ayn as-Saqr SAMs (Egyptian copy of the Strela-2M MANPADS) and the Dassault 6SD-20S radar based on the M113 BTR,
  15. deman73
    deman73 30 August 2013 11: 23 New
    0
    an excellent installation has not yet become obsolete; it is especially useful for infantry fire support, and helicopters can be scared especially in ambush operations
  16. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 30 August 2013 11: 36 New
    0
    Verily there is no limit to Russian scientific and design thought.
  17. Mista_dj
    Mista_dj 30 August 2013 11: 40 New
    +4
    due to the use of the old and not meeting the modern requirements of the original design, the new ZU-23 / 30M1-3 installation in a real war, most likely, can only get limited use.

    the development of air attack tools has long allowed planes and helicopters to hit ground targets without entering the coverage area of ​​anti-aircraft systems like the ZU-23.


    Strongly disagree!
    All of South America (and Africa is not far behind) flies on the Embryer maize storming.
    Is it they who are storming from a distance of more than 2,5 km !?
    Shchaz!
    These warriors flying on your head - they will miss!

    It seems to me that Zushka will still show herself in banana wars: a reliable thing, killer.
    One thing confuses: and to drag the old one on a hump in the mountains - you will not wish the enemy, and if it is still heavy, sadness !?
    However, in the "Uncle Tom's hut" blacks are described as physically strong and hardy, they will tolerate!
  18. Lopatov
    Lopatov 30 August 2013 11: 48 New
    +8
    But in my opinion, this is nonsense. Inform ZU-23-2, put normal sighting, provide protection calculation, this is necessary. At the first stage. And then you need to abandon the calculation at the installation altogether, do something like the French Aspic system with remote control from the remote control



    Installing MANPADS is redundant. Let the cobbler stitch the boots, and the cakes the pastry bake.
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 30 August 2013 11: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: Spade
      Inform ZU-23-2, set normal sighting, provide calculation protection, this is necessary. At the first stage.

      When only to this the head of the Moscow Region "gets" ...
      In the meantime, the boom is driving a boom in makeshift cars.
      Eheh.

      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 August 2013 12: 16 New
        +1
        The question is that everything is already there. All you need is an industry order. Against the background of other expenses of Moscow Region, this is a penny.
        1. smprofi
          smprofi 30 August 2013 12: 26 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          The question is that everything is already there

          in the 83rd year, passing through the territory of the military department (the SNR 2K11 Krug itself), I saw on ZU-23-2 some kind of stray with the brand Bofors (some kind of “device” on the “membrane” between the trunks and a unit connected with it with a cable in front of the gunner’s place, maybe a range finder). to our exclamation "oh, what is this?" they simply received an “order” from the officers to continue following their course and do not meddle in their own affairs.
    2. Mista_dj
      Mista_dj 30 August 2013 12: 09 New
      +4
      And you led Zushka alive in your hands?
      How do you think this Aspik in the green stuff to drag, to a height of 100 meters!?
      The whole zimus is Zushka, which is as simple as a ruble eighty and mobile.
      And at the same time it’s sandalit so that "mother, do not worry!"
      He lifted it on his shoulders and dragged it.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 30 August 2013 12: 19 New
        0
        Quote: Mista_Dj
        The whole zimus is Zushka, which is as simple as a ruble eighty and mobile.
        And at the same time it’s sandalit so that "mother, do not worry!"

        Actually, too (a little higher) he expressed concerns about this:
        Quote: Aleks tv
        This modernization was a little alarming ...
        On the one hand - it’s very good, of course, that all sorts of pribludy appeared on it,
        But now it is slightly devoid of its main qualities: simplicity and reliability.

        Those. leave it in the standard simple version, but also on the bases of rugged vehicles.
        Each has its own tasks.

        Quote: Mista_Dj
        And you led Zushka alive in your hands?

        Incorrect, Dmitry.
        1. Mista_dj
          Mista_dj 30 August 2013 13: 08 New
          +3
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Incorrect, Dmitry.

          Sorry, I absolutely did not mean to offend you!
          On the forehead, it is not written, from where)))
          The question in the literal sense was asked, mistook for another "cheers-patriot", a fan of the series "strike force")))
          Once again my apologies!
          ;)
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 30 August 2013 13: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: Mista_Dj
            On the forehead, it is not written, from where)))

            That's for sure...
            Everything is in order, Dmitry.
            wink
            The request, if there is experience, how to disassemble and drag this spark on hands, tell, please. It would be very interesting to listen.

            Itself only the NSV raised to the checkpoints, disassembled in parts. Also a good machine. The trouble with the ammunition was in the infantry box of the entire 50 oil bottle.

            The large caliber does not allow the enemy to approach the range of use of small arms, this is his hobby with proper use.
            I can imagine what the 23-mm spark mounted on the pass can do ... But the ammunition is heavy, you won’t take much to the hump ...

            Sincerely
            Alex.
            1. Mista_dj
              Mista_dj 30 August 2013 14: 05 New
              +5
              The experience of dragging Zushka uphill is the most primitive one: they surrounded the disease, raised it.
              Landing has equipped a position to ensure the wiring of convoys.
              And we (Marines of the Black Sea Fleet) neighbors (crossed out), fraternally helped them.
              Raise it on the green stuff - tryndets! Bushes and other fauna prevent the wheels from spinning. And it weighs a ton ... suffered as much as possible / rested.
              We were then invited to play pranks from her.

              Disassembled - it was not possible to observe.
              1. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 30 August 2013 14: 10 New
                +1
                Quote: Mista_Dj
                The experience of dragging Zushka uphill is the most primitive one: they surrounded the disease, raised it.

                Quote: Mista_Dj
                Disassembled - it was not possible to observe.

                Thanks, thanks.
                hi
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 August 2013 12: 42 New
        +1
        And why do the memory in the green? Purpose to portray?

        At this stage, the unmodified ZU-23-2 has near-zero efficiency against air targets. And extremely small on land due to a complete lack of protection.
    3. smprofi
      smprofi 30 August 2013 12: 17 New
      +6
      Quote: Spade
      But in my opinion, this is nonsense. Inform ZU-23-2, put normal sighting, provide protection calculation, this is necessary.

      get:



      True, by today's standards, radars are outdated, but talked to a guy who served on Shilka, so he talked about such things that old-timers did, that it was hard to believe
      1. smiths xnumx
        smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 12: 34 New
        +1
        Dear Vasily, 23-mm guns are now outdated, so the actual Shilka range for hitting low-flying targets at ranges up to 2500 m, and the Hellfire ATGM range from the AN-64 Apache combat helicopter is about 8 km. Thus, enemy helicopters can hit Shilka without entering their fire zone. In order to increase the Shilka’s firing range, the North Koreans, having installed 2 30 mm artillery guns in its tower, presumably AK-230 ship, with a real firing range of about 5 km. The hull is generally similar to that of the ZSU-23-4, however, it is larger in size. The same goes for the tower, it is more massive than the Shilka. It is clear why: the main armament is two 30-mm guns with a rate of fire of 800 rounds per minute per barrel. The machine can hit targets at ranges of 3000-3500 m.



        North Korean version of "Shilka" in the parade.
        Yours! hi
        1. Akim
          Akim 30 August 2013 12: 38 New
          0
          Quote: smiths xnumx
          Dear Vasily, 23 mm guns are now out of date,

          Watching for what. For installation on armored vehicles - not yet. True infantry caliber 20-23 mm is not enough.
          1. smiths xnumx
            smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 13: 00 New
            +3
            Dear Akim, I had in mind for firing on air targets. You yourself are well aware of the effectiveness of the ZU-23 fire without a radar on a jet plane flying at a speed of about 1000 km / h. Hit is possible only by accident. There was a good option ZU-23M:
            Having removed the ZAP-23 anti-aircraft automatic sight and the operator’s workstation from the installation, the designers placed the following devices and systems on it:
            1) electromechanical guidance drives vertically and horizontally;
            2) remote control;
            3) a binocular collimator sight with a built-in video viewing device and luminous grids for working on air and ground targets;
            4) an optoelectronic system comprising a laser range finder, a television channel, an opto-mechanical assembly;
            5) device for automatic capture and tracking;
            6) a digital computer;
            7) a rotating contact device;
            8) control and display panel;
            9) equipment for receiving and implementing external target designation.
            All this equipment in the form of compact blocks is installed on a rotating platform of the upper machine to the right of the machines.
            The main result of the modernization was an increase in the efficiency of shooting at low-flying targets, including small ones, from 0,023 to 0,3-0,4 km (depending on the speed of the air target). In this case, the defeat of air targets was provided not only in daytime conditions, but also at night.

            http://orujii.ru/z/2577--23

            [media = http: //www.arcus-bg.com/images/products/fuzes/1_medium_caliber/11_zu23_2_
            b.jpg]
            however, in this regard, I like the Finnish version of creating a ZSu on the T-55 chassis, with the Marksman tower
            As a result of this modernization, the "anti-aircraft tank" began to weigh 41 tons. Two 35-mm Oerlikon KDA automatic guns have 500 rounds of ammunition, 40 of which are armor-piercing. Firing range 4 km. The machine is well automated, the crew is only three people.
            A radar station mounted on the ZSU can detect targets at a distance of 12 km, and from a distance of 10 km it can take them already for tracking. The laser range finder can be used at a distance of 8 km. The gunner at his disposal also has an automated fire control system.

            Yours! hi
            1. S-200
              S-200 30 August 2013 13: 22 New
              +1
              Quote: smiths xnumx
              You yourself perfectly understand what is the effectiveness of the ZU-23 fire without a radar on a jet plane flying at a speed of about 1000 km / h

              in addition to a jet plane (at a speed of 1000 km \ h), helicopters with speeds are widely used on the battlefield BEFORE 350 km \ h.
              1. smiths xnumx
                smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 15: 47 New
                +1
                Dear Alexander, the actual Shilka range for hitting low-flying targets at ranges up to 2500 m, and the Hellfire ATGM range from the AN-64 Apache combat helicopter is about 8 km. Thus, enemy helicopters can hit Shilka without entering their fire zone. A "Shilka" can hit them only from an ambush ... Regards! hi
                1. S-200
                  S-200 31 August 2013 17: 39 New
                  0
                  I meant it - an ambush ...
                2. sivuch
                  sivuch 3 September 2013 14: 09 New
                  +1
                  The funniest (and saddest) thing is that Shilka once won the contest with the Yenisei (which is 37mm) with a promise to change the caliber to 30mm. It’s true that putting all kinds of smart fuses into a 30mm shell does not make sense, until at least where they could put -35mm into, but ZSU-30 could successfully deal with anti-aircraft helicopters. Armed with Hotami, Tou and Swingfire.
                  In the current conditions, for the ZU-23-2, in my opinion, there are 2 niches — covering objects from the Kyrgyz Republic and any low-level evil spirits and fighting tactical drones. It’s another matter that this is possible only with information support — it doesn’t matter from Barnaul-T, PU-12, Rankir + modern optronics
                  PS
                  Look at the Venezuelan version
            2. Akim
              Akim 30 August 2013 13: 23 New
              +1
              Quote: smiths xnumx
              You yourself are well aware of the effectiveness of the ZU-23 fire without radar

              Radar is available. The Poles have it "Sola".
          2. smprofi
            smprofi 30 August 2013 13: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            on infantry caliber 20-23 mm is not enough

            um ... maybe you meant armored vehicles?
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 30 August 2013 13: 21 New
              +5
              Quote: smprofi
              um ... maybe you meant armored vehicles?

              I can’t pretend to say, but according to the stories of a friend who served in Hungary at night shooting from Shilka, a volley was shot into the side projection of a moving tank by accident. The result is a disabled chassis (several rollers are broken off) and a heavy shell shock of the tank crew ...
            2. Akim
              Akim 30 August 2013 13: 41 New
              0
              Quote: smprofi
              Did you mean armored vehicles?

              No. Caliber 20-23 affects all light armored vehicles. But for one infantryman, either a cheaper rifle bullet or one such projectile is required, because they have a small fragmentation effect.
        2. smprofi
          smprofi 30 August 2013 12: 38 New
          0
          Quote: smiths xnumx
          North Koreans with a view

          Well, the North Koreans are ta-a-ka entertainers ...



          on a tank tower in addition to the KPVT (instead of the Soviet "Cliff") and ATGM, and MANPADS
        3. smprofi
          smprofi 30 August 2013 13: 01 New
          +2
          respected Novel, if you carefully watched ALL the comments, you would pay attention to the mention of the Bofors 40 (somewhat higher).
          about the venturers of the North Koreans - below.
          however, for that matter, with a normal approach (as for the modernization of both the gun mount itself with detection / guidance systems and ammunition) then (purely my opinion, not a gunman, but a missile) it would be more interesting to look towards the ZSU-57-2. this was:
          On the basis of Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 426-211 dated April 17, 1957, the design bureau of Plant No. 174 under the direction of A. E. Sulin modernized the ZSU-57-2, which consisted in equipping the self-propelled gun with 57-mm SV-68 guns "Berezina" and small-sized radio-optical instrumentation complex of autonomous fire control "Desna". The machine received the factory designation "Object 520". The lead engineer of the machine was G.V. Mazepa




          only in those days this "topic" was abandoned. and with the current development of electronics ... yes 57 mm is a bit "tastier" in the field of improving ammunition. Yes, the same GP (any!) will easily fall apart from the first hit.
          1. smiths xnumx
            smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 13: 11 New
            +2
            Dear Vasily during the “Desert Drill”, there was a case when 100-mm anti-aircraft guns of Soviet production KS-19 shot down an English “Tornado”,
            The Gulf War - according to V. Ilyin, on January 22, 8 Tornado aircraft over the Al-Ratbah area at an altitude of 6700 meters were fired from KS-19 guns. The leader’s plane was shot down by the first salvo and the rest, having got rid of the bombs, dived to a low altitude and headed for the airfield. According to the version of A. Khaustov and A. Kotlobovsky, this Tornado was shot down by the Roland missile

            http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/100-%EC%EC_%E7%E5%ED%E8%F2%ED%E0%FF_%EF%F3%F8%EA%E0

            _% CA% D1-19

            Now the Iranians have raised a similar topic: the Saeer installation is a modernization of the old Soviet KS-19 anti-aircraft gun with an automatic loading system (providing the claimed rate of fire from 12 to 15 rounds per minute - which is not much higher than the standard maximum rate of fire of KS-19 at 13 rounds per minute, but minimizes the calculation) and electric drive power servo transmission associated with a modern electronic-optical fire control system. Ammunition ready for firing in the store, however, as you can judge, does not exceed six shells. It is unlikely that such a modernized artillery system now has significant combat value against combat aircraft, but it can be useful for fighting American medium- and high-altitude UAVs in the context of the small number of Iran’s air defense systems with significant altitude.

            However, the Iranians have a similar “prodigy” 4 ZU-23 on a wheeled chassis:

            Yours! hi
            1. smprofi
              smprofi 30 August 2013 13: 36 New
              +1
              Quote: smiths xnumx
              there was a case during Desert Drill

              I remember a bike / not a bike of the same 70s. The Union delivered 100 mm anti-aircraft guns to Egypt (as stated in the original source, I don’t know the type, maybe KS-19). they were placed somewhere on a hill, and below they put a battery of anti-tank guns, a cover. and Israeli tanks did break through ... what could they do then? Valiant Arab warriors threw anti-tank guns, while others began to hit tanks from anti-aircraft guns. Soviet advisers tried to enlighten the valiant warriors supposedly expensive from such anti-aircraft guns and tanks, but received the answer: "That's more reliable."

              as for air defense systems in general, in my opinion, currently towed options with the possibility of firing exclusively in the "hospital" have somewhat outlived themselves. especially the receiver. and even to protect stationary objects. with the current development of intelligence (we will not recall the Hollywood versions of the "real satellite image", at least the same UAVs), standing and waiting for a "present" from the horizon is somewhat silly.

              what the Koreans, Iranians or the same Poles do is their business. on poverty and in the absence of brains and the technological base - what you just can’t do. all over the world there are plenty of shushi of various purposes. and it’s even possible that under certain conditions it will even work as intended. but for serious use and as a system ... I wouldn’t count on

              hi
              1. Akim
                Akim 30 August 2013 13: 51 New
                0
                Quote: smprofi
                what the Koreans, Iranians or the same Poles do is their business. on poverty and in the absence of brains and the technological base - what you just can’t do.

                As for the North Koreans, I agree, but Iran and Poland are by no means poor countries.
                1. smiths xnumx
                  smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 14: 06 New
                  0
                  I completely agree with the respected Akim, I would also not belittle the Polish military-industrial complex, at least they modernized the Neva on their own.
                  At the first stage, the complex becomes self-propelled. Work on this stage began in 1992, the modernized complex was assigned the designation Newa-S (samobiezny - self-propelled in Polish). Initially, the 5P73 launcher with four 5V27 missiles was placed on the chassis of the T-55 tank (or the tank bridge BLG-67, or WZT-1 BREM on the T-55 chassis). The ROC antenna post was also placed on the tank chassis.


                  Self-propelled launcher of the upgraded S-125 air defense system
                  In mid-1995, work began on the second stage of the Neva modernization at the Polish Academy of Military Equipment. The essence of these works is the replacement of complex analog blocks with digital ones. As a result, the new complex received the designation Newa-SC (self-propelled digital). At this stage, the launchers and antenna post of the Russian Orthodox Church began to be installed also on a wheeled chassis of the MAZ-543 type.


                  Self-propelled target illumination station of the modernized complex S-125M "Newa-SC"
                  http://pvo.guns.ru/s125/s125poland.htm

                  A similar operation was also carried out in the DPRK, only there are launchers on the KrAZ chassis
                  1. smiths xnumx
                    smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 15: 12 New
                    +2
                    Here is another curious exotic artillery system of the DPRK - towed twin 57-mm automatic anti-aircraft gun. As you can tell, the installation is a copy of the Soviet 57-mm twin S-68 anti-aircraft gun located on a two-axle wheeled towed carriage used in the ZSU-57-2 anti-aircraft gun.


                    but ZSU at its base, as can be judged by the photograph without a radar

                    Here is another photo:

                    Yours! hi
                  2. smprofi
                    smprofi 30 August 2013 16: 38 New
                    +3
                    Quote: smiths xnumx
                    I would also not belittle the Polish military-industrial complex, at least they modernized the Neva on their own.

                    Well, whoever I admire is the Poles. Czechs (in the sense of the Czech Republic, not Chechnya) look much more solid (their hands and heads are “sewn” more correctly, and there are traditions).
                    and if we look at what is being done in poverty, "I blinded it from what it was, and then what it was - I loved it," so the Cubans evoke more respect. without any traditions in mechanical engineering, and even less so in the creation of weapons systems, they somehow dodge INDEPENDENTLY:









            2. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 30 August 2013 13: 39 New
              +1
              Quote: smiths xnumx
              However, the Iranians have a similar “prodigy” 4 ZU-23 on a wheeled chassis:

              Now I know exactly how it looks - this is the same “wunderwaffle” ...
              laughing
              Just humor, romance and nothing more.
              Thanks for the photo.
              hi
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 August 2013 12: 50 New
        0
        Why so powerful? Target designation can also be obtained from the senior boss. Protection - screens where they are now artificially put.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Mista_dj
    Mista_dj 30 August 2013 13: 25 New
    +6
    I carefully read ALL the koments and that’s what smiled at me: how many times I saw Zushka, she was never used for air targets (for not having those).
    Well, it was time ... they shot at crows, out of boredom., But at ground targets - already running:
    wreck the truck, lay the house inside, guard the road (in a sharp bend).
    Maybe it makes sense to talk about its real (!) Ways and results of application, than breaking spears comparing the firing range of a helicopter-aircraft missile and this fluff !?

    PS: by the way, I do not think that Apache was created, which our Zushka will not fill up!
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 30 August 2013 13: 56 New
      +4
      Quote: Mista_Dj
      Maybe it makes sense to talk about its real (!) Ways and results of application, than breaking spears comparing the firing range of a helicopter-aircraft missile and this fluff !?

      good
      People, throw off info, who has a desire!

      Accompanied by "threads" and "ribbons", carts with such a pair were very appreciated. BTR-80 and did not stand close to it in terms of efficiency.
      Its best use is not to allow any trash on the firing range from the machine gun and the grenade launcher. Just keep it up and that's it.

      In mountain villages, it’s good to beat home with it. In the Czech Republic they are made of natural stone with no windows onto the street, the fence is a continuation of the house.
      Sparka well reveals such h.ndelpupiny.
      1. smiths xnumx
        smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 16: 04 New
        +3
        Alexei, I was mistaken this is not a "wunderwaffe", this is a "no-do-wunderwaffe", only six trunks, here is the real true Iranian "wunderwaffe" about eight trunks ...



        Something like this ... Regards! hi
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 30 August 2013 16: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: smiths xnumx
          here is the real true Iranian "wunderwaffe" about eight trunks ...

          laughing
          Thanks, Roman.
          hi
          1. smiths xnumx
            smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 20: 46 New
            +1
            An interesting ZSU was developed in the 50s in Czechoslovakia:
            ZSU M53 / 59 "Prague" was developed in accordance with the requirements of the Czechoslovak army in the late 50s. The armored hull of this ZSU is mounted on the modified chassis of the Czechoslovakian V-3S Prague truck. The engine is a Tatra T 912-2 six-cylinder water-cooled diesel engine with a capacity of 110 liters. with. was in front of the ZSU. Its hood, like the cockpit, was made of aluminum armored plates with the addition of titanium, the thickness of which in the frontal part reached 10 mm. The crew of three was located in the cockpit, in the frontal armor plate of which there are two windows covered by armored panels.
            The armament of the ZSU is located at the rear, on a horizontal platform, and consists of an openly mounted M53 rotary mount with two 30-mm automatic weapons, the firing range of which is 3000 m. The ammunition includes several types of shells, the ammunition carrying capacity of 600-800 shells. Above the trunks of the anti-aircraft installation is a vertical horn-type store with 50 shells. The firing in azimuth is circular, and in the vertical plane, from -10 degrees. up to +85 degrees The transfer time from marching to combat position is one minute. It is possible to quickly dismantle an anti-aircraft installation using two retractable ramps mounted on a platform. It was assumed that the ZSU would be able to destroy air targets flying at speeds up to 350 m / s and at altitudes up to 3500 m, and it could hit airborne landing and ground targets at ranges up to 2000 m.
            Among the shortcomings of this ZSU, it is worth noting the absence of a detection system, and the fact that the aiming was only visual.
            It entered the arsenal of the Yugoslav People’s Army in 1969, when production began by the forces of the Yugoslav industry. By the early 1980s, JNA received 789 ZSUs. "Prague" was attached to the mixed artillery and missile air defense divisions of the land brigades of the Yugoslav army. Each such division received, among other weapons, 12 M53 / 59. "Prague" periodically underwent modernization, there were several projects involving a significant strengthening of these ZSU by installing new engines, new sights, etc. But the collapse of Yugoslavia forced the military to abandon such plans.
            In wars in the vast expanses of the former Yugoslavia, "Prague" was used in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo. In the first two wars, they mainly supported the actions of infantry units. In defense, they acted from improvised shelters, sometimes ZSU were covered with steel grills in order to protect against anti-tank missiles. Many zsu added 12,7 mm machine guns. The peculiarity of "Prague" was the sound of shots, producing a strong psychological effect.
            The M53 / 59 fell short of its main purpose only once - on June 24, 1992, the Croatian MiG-21 was shot down in Posavin. The rare occurrence of air targets had an extremely negative effect on the training of crews who, by the time of the NATO bombing of the Republika Srpska in 1995, simply had little combat skills in aviation.
            In 1999, Yugoslav "Prague" shot down 3 unmanned aerial vehicles and 12 NATO cruise missiles. But by the time of the aggression against the FRY, this ZSU was already morally obsolete.
            "Prague" JUNA.

            ZSU "Prague" of the 3rd infantry brigade of the Serbian army.

            Yours! hi
            1. smprofi
              smprofi 30 August 2013 22: 05 New
              0
              Quote: smiths xnumx
              An interesting ZSU developed in the 50s in Czechoslovakia

              Well, you still confirm my thoughts about the Czechs
              1. smiths xnumx
                smiths xnumx 30 August 2013 22: 31 New
                +1
                However, the Yugoslavs also did not lag behind; they created their own ZSU. During development, it was decided to equip it with a licensed version of the Hispanic-Suiz HS804 gun - the M55 A4B1 gun. Rate of fire - 750 rounds per minute. The effective range for ground targets is 2000 meters, and for air targets 1500 meters. A significant drawback of the ZSU was the placement of stores for 60 shells each on top of the guns. Thus, as in the case of BOV-1, recharge from the inside is not possible. The rest of the ammunition from 22 stores was in the tower. It is equipped with a J-171 optical sight. ZOV BOV-3 remains in service with the armies of Serbia (85 units) and Bosnia and Herzegovina (29 units). In Serbia, these ZSU are in reserve air defense.
                There was another option
                1. Akim
                  Akim 30 August 2013 23: 22 New
                  +1
                  The M55 has an adapter for tape power, and the BM-M-80 generally has two tape feeds. And as a memory device, one can argue that drum or tape power is better.
    2. smprofi
      smprofi 30 August 2013 14: 12 New
      +2
      Quote: Mista_Dj
      how many times have I seen Zushka, she has never been used for air targets (for not having those).

      in the 70s, somewhere on the outskirts of Baku, a sergeant raised young people: deploy from a camp, charge, turn into a camp. regular studies. and now, at sunset, noise is heard and the F-4 Phantom appears (the silhouette is exceptionally specific, air defense personnel are trained for recognition. even we, the air defense systems of the air defense systems, were also “brought up”). sergeant without hesitation gives the order to shoot. get, of course, did not hit. but in the evening sky, in the rays of the setting sun, a silvery silhouette and tracers ... beautiful!
      Then, the commander of the air defense of the country did a rascuhon:
      - All the air defense of the Soviet Union about # @ * - lo intruder! Only some sergeant spotted!
      and then in the hearts:
      - And he didn’t get ...
      but the sergeant did get a nominal watch from the country's air defense commander!

      Strictly speaking, in reality, without an LMS associated with a target tracking radar, it’s extremely difficult to get from an artillery system by plane, especially now. and in good times too: the average expenditure of small-caliber artillery shells on Khalkhin Gol, if my memory serves me, was about 10 shells per one shot down, less than about 000 in WWII (it seems). the famous Vulcan Phalanx CIWS, despite the fact that the LMS fulfills not only the target, but also the trajectory of its shells, not only "hits" the target, but creates a barrage



      Quote: Mista_Dj
      about its real (!) ways and results of use, than breaking spears comparing the firing range of a helicopter-aircraft missile and this fluff !?

      I have already mentioned the cover of air defense batteries in the near zone (see above). however, the calculation nevertheless goes to GPs that "crawled" to the very small and "dodged" from other means of air defense.
      Quote: Mista_Dj
      I don’t think that Apache was created, which our Zushka will not overwhelm

      you’ll laugh, but the gringos are praising precisely the resistance of the AH-64 Apache to 23 mm shells (nod to Shilka)
      1. Mista_dj
        Mista_dj 30 August 2013 14: 41 New
        +5
        Quote: smprofi
        you’ll laugh, but the gringos are praising precisely the resistance of the AH-64 Apache to 23 mm shells (nod to Shilka)

        It would be nice if they did not say, but really thought so.
        I saw with my own eyes what Shilka did with the Georgian BRDM at 93m.
        What kind of apache ...
        1. smprofi
          smprofi 30 August 2013 16: 05 New
          0
          Quote: Mista_Dj
          what Shilka did with the Georgian BRDM at 93m

          I believe!
          BUT!
          the fact of the matter is that GPs (the latter) were created precisely with the protection of the "probable enemy" from small-caliber artillery. in the Union were developed taking into account the presence of 20 mm artillery systems in the enemies



          AH-64 Apache - taking into account the prevalence of ZSU-23-4 2A6 "Shilka"
          1. Mista_dj
            Mista_dj 30 August 2013 23: 44 New
            +4
            Quote: smprofi
            AH-64 Apache - taking into account the prevalence of ZSU-23-4 2A6 "Shilka"

            This long conversation begins.
            While still at school, I, with our governor, began to argue on the topic of promising (then) body armor.
            "Advertising" one of them, its developer, blurted out that his product can withstand "... Kalashnikov assault rifle ...".
            I - running to the governor, I ask - is it possible !?
            He grunted and said: “let him put his son in this armor, but I’ll shoot and then we will see how he holds the Kalashnikov’s shot” (C) My Voenruk.

            I will repeat his words: let the creator of Apache put his son in the cabin, and I will shoot from our old Zushka.
            I doubt that his sneakers will reach the earth ...
            1. smprofi
              smprofi 31 August 2013 02: 47 New
              0
              Quote: Mista_Dj
              This long conversation begins

              laughing

              Quote: Mista_Dj
              “let him put his son in this bronic, and then I’ll shoot and see how he holds the Kalashnikov’s shot” (C) My Voenruk.

              Well, the son is not a son, and some directors themselves participate in the tests:
              Shaanxi Baoji Special Vehicles Manufacturing CEO Wang Bao Ho in a vehicle during a fire test



              Executive Director, Texas Armoring



              and on the video about the Mi-28 (above), sometimes they shoot from an empty cabin ..
              1. Mista_dj
                Mista_dj 31 August 2013 20: 01 New
                +3
                Personal participation in trials is not news.
                But here is my son, in any (!) Bronik, against AK47 - I will not wear it for anything.
                I said only what I said: the son of Amerovsky - into the cockpit of Apache, and I’ll shoot from Zushka ...
                And about the video about MI-28: note that not a single aiming was carried out in the pilot’s head area.
                I am by no means bloodthirsty and would have saved our pilots, but the aiming points (indicated by a cross) of the kagbe accidentally in the corners of the glass.
                Production clip and all.
          2. Mista_dj
            Mista_dj 31 August 2013 00: 09 New
            +3
            GPs (the latter) were created precisely with protection from small-caliber artillery of the “likely enemy”.

            I am not at all trying to reduce the achievements of our and pen DOS "armor", but all this is given to me is nothing more than profanity.
            Akin to the one in 42m the T-34 crews “reassured” about the thin (relative to the T-VI Tiger) armor. The inclination of the armor, they say - seriously increases the resistance against the armor-piercing projectile. Formally - a good thought.
            Yes, that's just from the separation of the tower with a direct hit in it - the slope did not help ...
            I (with a stretch) am ready to believe that GP will withstand a single hit from the so-called "Krupnyka" (DShK and even KORD`a), but when fluff slaps - not much will seem.
            And, which is typical: the anti-aircraft guns - they don’t shoot solo, the guests will arrive pretty well ...
  21. Voskepar
    Voskepar 30 August 2013 13: 25 New
    +3
    Back in the mid-90s, NKR JSC began installing these systems on the BMP-1:
  22. Nayhas
    Nayhas 30 August 2013 14: 27 New
    +4
    I join those who believe that the modernization of the ZU-32 in the direction of improving it as an air defense system is not necessary to hell. They love Zushka not because they bring down planes, but because they support the infantry well thanks to the large angles of fire and high density of fire. If you upgrade, then in the direction of reducing weight and ease of installation on vehicles ...
    1. mox
      mox 31 August 2013 00: 16 New
      -1
      And get BMP-2. And the aiming angles, and the unified ammunition, and the finished cart under the gun, etc.
      It’s me who speaks Shilochnik. How many 23 mm do not upgrade but is outdated. The transition to 30 mm occurred - Tunguska, BMP-2, Mi-24, newfangled Shell, etc. Unification of ammunition.

      And the memory only in Africa to sell the Zulus with the pygmies to drive.
      I wonder how many airborne defense from the ZU-23 in the entire history shot down air targets? I think not one.
      At the memory back in the 80s, they only shot at BTR targets at firing (task No. 4).
      1. anufriev87
        anufriev87 1 September 2013 00: 12 New
        0
        Quote: mox
        And the memory only in Africa to sell the Zulus with the pygmies to drive.

        ZU-23 / 30M1-4 exported to Latin America
  23. Black
    Black 30 August 2013 15: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Nayhas
    Love Zushka not for the fact that it knocks down planes

    Well, yes, something like that.
    But to love her as air defense as if there was no reason. So far, they have not perished against us with aviation.
  24. kafa
    kafa 30 August 2013 15: 04 New
    0
    the base is a good proven reliable. but sighting systems are out of date. ... modern target detection and tracking systems would return it to battle formations. but where are they compact versatile non-volatile noise-free sighting systems?
  25. nikcris
    nikcris 30 August 2013 19: 03 New
    0
    In general, do not care!
    But at least one of the commentators carefully examined the photo on the editorial?
    Is there nothing strange there?
    Did YOU have OK, wow, Ess and etc buttons in your tanks and aircraft carriers?
    Wretched ...
  26. gych
    gych 30 August 2013 21: 32 New
    0
    Zushka will be in service for more than a dozen years. Please tell me which tape the zu-23 uses.
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 30 August 2013 21: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: gych
      which tape does the memory use 23.

      The one that is used in large caliber.
      Visible in the photo:
      Clickable
  27. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 30 August 2013 21: 53 New
    +1
    Here she is, Krasyava, at work ...
  28. Assistant
    Assistant 30 August 2013 23: 45 New
    +1
    Maybe someone heard if there were any options for upgrading the ZU-23 with its automatic aiming at the optics flare point using the optical instrument detection system or at the firing point using the triangulating microphone system?
  29. Cpa
    Cpa 31 August 2013 00: 57 New
    +1
    A question for air defense workers, is the ZU-23 capable of shooting down an anti-radar missile or anti-ship missiles with electronic stray? Or at least in a pair? Can it be used in this form as a backup cover for radars, antenna fields and radar?
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 31 August 2013 02: 58 New
      +2
      theoretically impossible there is nothing. almost ... above I cited a video on Vulcan Phalanx CIWS. so in the video you can see how they shoot down a 120 mm mine, and this target is less than a rocket. but! while, basically, there is a barrage fire. and the density of fire is still higher for Vulcan Phalanx than for ZU-23-2 (3600 rounds / min against 2000 for the Soviet ZU). and Vulcan Phalanx radar fulfills not only the target, but also its shells. accordingly, the calculator makes certain corrections to the pickup.
      Quote: KPA
      use as backup cover

      about the "backup" cover batteries for air defense systems again, I already wrote above
  30. igor.borov775
    igor.borov775 31 August 2013 03: 49 New
    0
    Hello, Gentlemen, the time for this machine just leaves quickly, There is no price for ambushes, Now there is a rapid equipping of parts with 30mm systems, The option above is for poor countries, Understand the time is completely different Everything that has been worked out is available only in new systems, Now there are completely different requirements Mobility Range power in one shot, According to these parameters, the 23mm past and you just have to give credit to those who created the system at that distant time and not forget how many lives it saved, in our time, a towed system is really the death of personnel, This is statistics Realities shot others and quickly moved , Now the helicopters are equipped with 30mm cannons, one must proceed from this or death immediately. The time is different and the possibilities are completely different. It was beautiful and very dangerous in the 60-70s of the last century, but life does not stand still and it simply gives way to other more powerful systems and more stable in combat conditions, We can only be proud of our designers that they created such tenacious systems, With respect to all who showed interest in this weapon, the more it deserved it with its long life and saved a lot of lives, So it should be treated with respect and respect,
  31. Marconi41
    Marconi41 31 August 2013 09: 02 New
    0
    I don’t even know if ZUShKs are now used in the interests of air defense. And here is how the field light atillery is quite an acceptable little thing. More than once I saw anything on the base wink
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 6 September 2013 13: 32 New
      0
      For 20 years it has been used as field artillery. In terms of air defense - the Stone Age.
  32. anufriev87
    anufriev87 1 September 2013 00: 03 New
    0
    To the question of prospects and lack of prospects - if there were no applications from potential customers, they would not even design rockets.

    Regarding the fact that the installation has "English" inscriptions - inscriptions in Spanish. Exported option.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 6 September 2013 13: 35 New
      0
      Pay the money and you will collect an individual Ferrari. Not an argument.
  33. sivuch
    sivuch 3 September 2013 14: 31 New
    0
    , Nowadays, a towed system is really the death of personnel, This is the statistics Realities others shot and quickly moved
    -----------------------------------------
    Therefore, the Iranians, for example, make remotely controlled ZU-23 (and not only 23-2)
    http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/164282.html
    In the current conditions, for the ZU-23-2, in my opinion, there are 2 niches — covering objects from the Kyrgyz Republic and any low-level evil spirits and fighting tactical drones. It’s another matter that this is possible only with information support — it doesn’t matter from Barnaul-T, PU-12, Rankir + modern optronics
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 6 September 2013 13: 39 New
      0
      ZU-23-2 is a thing of the past. Leave it to the rebels in the jungle of Africa, as the field artillery of the assholes of the world.
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 8 September 2013 09: 35 New
        0
        Here is an inexpensive tactical drone spinning above your head at a height of half a kilometer - what are you going to shoot it down? Another option is the radar position (22Zh6, for example, rushing subsonic KP-TsU received, than shooting down?
  34. S27111945
    S27111945 22 December 2013 19: 06 New
    +1
    You can philosophize a lot about obsolete weapons, "cart", etc. However, the modernization of the ZU-23 is a fait accompli. The new memory can conduct round-the-clock combat operations with minimal errors of the "human factor". Guys - this is a breakthrough, do we still have a similar efficiency / cost criterion? Everything else (Shell, Tunguska, even Shilka) is expensive. This is the first. The second - "PEMZ special vehicle" is the only enterprise in Russia that deals with the problems of a towed warhead, and today it is the only armament that can effectively resist UAVs, which will be very many over the battlefield in modern warfare.
    1. iAi
      iAi 6 August 2015 00: 30 New
      0
      Everything is correct, only towed is not necessary.
      It must first be done in a form suitable for installation in a truck body.
      And yet, the performance should be mountain pack. Not for war in the mountains, but for war in the city. One barrel is enough.
  35. E.S.A.
    E.S.A. 5 December 2019 16: 24 New
    0
    The main modernization of the ZU-23-2 was never carried out - the height of the line of fire was not raised to the level of the gunner’s shoulders.