Military Review

Russia intends to sell Indonesia ten submarines

43
Russia intends to sell Indonesia ten submarinesMahfoudz Siddik, who is the chairman of the defense committee of the lower chamber of the Indonesian government, spoke about an interesting proposal from the Russian state. So, according to him, Russia offered the Indonesian government to acquire a dozen underwater diesel-electric boats. This proposal, according to the chairman of the committee, before being accepted, requires careful study.


In addition, Siddik noted the intention of Indonesia to cooperate with the Russian side in matters relating to the procurement of submarines, but it does not at all mean that we can expect an announcement of the transaction in the near future, this requires a longer period and not the fact that the proposal will be accepted .

It is still unknown what specific submarines are in question, but, thanks to some sources, it is noted that, most likely, the submarines of the 636 “Amur” or “Varshavyanka” project were proposed to Indonesia.

The total cost of Russian submarines is estimated at five, or even more, billions of dollars, and at present the Indonesian state does not have such funds. Allocated this year for the purchase of new military equipment and weapons, the country's budget is about 1,67 billion dollars.

Meanwhile, earlier the Indonesian authorities stated that the acquisition of new submarines is a priority for the country.

Back in 2007, the Russian side provided an Indonesian export credit worth 1 billion dollars. These funds were to go for the purchase of two submarines "Halibut" project 877, which are offered for export under the designation "Amur", twenty infantry fighting vehicles of the project 3F, five Mi-35M helicopters and ten Mi-17. Part of the above military equipment was acquired by Indonesia, but the contract agreement providing for the supply of submarines was never signed.

However, the Indonesian military department in December 2011 of the year signed a contract for the creation of diesel-electric submarines of the “Chang Pogo” type (modified draft Tour-209) in the amount of three copies, with a South Korean shipbuilding enterprise. These ships, according to the terms of the agreement, must be delivered to the customer in 2018 year. The amount of the transaction is estimated at 1,2 billion dollars, which is equivalent to 1,3 trillion South Korean won.
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  1. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 28 August 2013 09: 19 New
    14
    Is Russia too keen on selling military equipment .. ??? Something is already alarming .. Where are the mass deliveries to our Army ???
    1. Retx
      Retx 28 August 2013 09: 35 New
      +4
      So we have massive supplies to the army according to our capabilities.
    2. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 28 August 2013 09: 45 New
      16
      You want an apple. It costs 5 rubles. You only have 6 rubles. You buy an apple for 5 rubles, but you sell it to your neighbor for 6 rubles. In a few "apples" you will be able to afford an apple without any harm! wink
      1. Retx
        Retx 28 August 2013 09: 50 New
        +6
        Yes, few people will realize that the program over the T-50 at the initial stage was carried out at the expense of money from export ...
      2. little man
        little man 28 August 2013 10: 35 New
        +3
        Do not argue. But only time is working against us. planes, new boats and frigates were needed yesterday recourse, but then the authorities were engaged in "reforms"
    3. Su24
      Su24 28 August 2013 12: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Is Russia too keen on selling military equipment .. ??? Something is already alarming .. Where are the mass deliveries to our Army ???


      Last year, the state order exceeded export deliveries at a price almost two times, and if we take into account that domestic prices are lower than export prices, then more than that.
    4. nycsson
      nycsson 28 August 2013 13: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Is Russia too keen on selling military equipment .. ??? Something is already alarming .. Where are the mass deliveries to our Army ???

      I'm just amazed. What logic do our "rulers" follow ??? We urgently need to arm ourselves, but they are selling submarines. am
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 28 August 2013 19: 01 New
        +1
        nycsson (1) RU Today, 13:14 PM ↑
        I'm just amazed. What logic do our "rulers" follow ??? We urgently need to arm ourselves, but they are selling submarines

        Yes it is, and not even selling request Rather, a gift.
        Back in 2007, the Russian side provided an Indonesian export loan worth $ 1 billion. () The total cost of Russian submarines is estimated at five, or even more, billions of dollars, and currently the Indonesian state does not have such funds.

        They will never give them away, these five "lards." The motives are not clear. Moreover, Vietnam pays for them in full.
        Let them build themselves, they will succeed:
    5. sub307
      sub307 28 August 2013 13: 29 New
      0
      Exactly - where?
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 28 August 2013 14: 37 New
        +1
        Submarines project 636 "Varshavyanka"
        Admiralty Shipyards.

        B-261 Novorossiysk. Laid down on 20.08.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX.
        B-237 "Rostov-on-Don." Laid on 21.11.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX.
        B-262 "Stary Oskol." Laid on 17.08.2012.

        Submarines of project 677 "Lada"
        Admiralty Shipyards.


        B-586 "Kronstadt." Laid on July 28.07.2005, XNUMX. Lowered
        B-587 "Sevastopol". Laid down on November 10.11.2006, XNUMX. Lowered


        Submarines of project 885 (0885) Ash
        PO "Sevmash".

        "Kazan". Laid down on 24.07.2009.
        "Novosibirsk". Laid down on July 26.07.2013, XNUMX. (Plan)

        Submarines of the 955 Northwind Project
        PO "Sevmash".

        "Vladimir monomakh". Laid down on 19.03.2006. Launched 30.12.2012/XNUMX/XNUMX. Rented
        "Prince Vladimir". Laid down on 30.07.2012.

        And these are only new ones, plus some that are modernized regularly, summing up the characteristics for modern samples.
    6. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 28 August 2013 15: 20 New
      +2
      Well, enough to whine about export. We do not need export of energy carriers like air. And those who purchase weapons from us, in addition, our political ally for many years, not to mention further profit from components. Why do the United States so eagerly want to oust Russian manufacturers from Malaysia and Indonesia? Yes, and prestige is worth a lot. How tired are those who howl against export.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 28 August 2013 16: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Reasonable, 2,3
        Well, enough to whine about export. We do not need export of energy carriers like air. And those who purchase weapons from us, in addition, our political ally for many years, not to mention further profit from components. Why do the United States so eagerly want to oust Russian manufacturers from Malaysia and Indonesia? Yes, and prestige is worth a lot. How tired are those who howl against export.

        This is also a third-party evaluation of the weapons we produce!
  2. Revolver
    Revolver 28 August 2013 09: 19 New
    +5
    And what will they pay? Money, or palm oil again?
    1. Su24
      Su24 28 August 2013 12: 29 New
      -2
      Quote: Nagan
      And what will they pay? Money, or palm oil again?


      Read carefully, Indonesia allocated a loan.
      1. Fire
        Fire 28 August 2013 14: 03 New
        0
        Actually, Russia singled out ... This capitalism has already bothered me so much !! Russia is full of resources, there are processing plants, production facilities. For a long time, all these enterprises under the state would be transferred from private possessions and would raise their own army. The cost of only wages to employees, EVERYTHING! Moreover, this same salary will be returned to the treasury through taxes, rents and more ... The circulation of money in the state ... They provided themselves with everything necessary - then you can earn money for the country ...
    2. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 28 August 2013 16: 51 New
      0
      And palm oil, what’s not worth the money? If you were in business, you would realize that the sale of products is above all, no matter what method, the main thing is that the profit goes.
  3. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 28 August 2013 09: 19 New
    +4
    Good Contracts are a good thing, but payment must be real money or valuable natural resources! No loans can be given, the world is in a phase when no one will give loans to the Russian Federation! And we are fighting 7 skins! Nalom! and only so!
    1. Suhov
      Suhov 28 August 2013 09: 48 New
      +5
      Quote: Dwarfik
      No loans can be given, the world is in a phase when no one will give loans to the Russian Federation!

    2. donavi49
      donavi49 28 August 2013 09: 53 New
      +3
      Well, Indonesia has already paid the loan for Su-27SCM, and it has bought Su-30 for real money.

      By the way, the USA carries out 75% of its arms exports on credit.
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 28 August 2013 19: 13 New
        +1
        donavi49 UA Today, 09: 53 ↑
        Well, Indonesia has already paid the loan for Su-27SCM, and it has bought Su-30 for real money.

        Bucks inflation of 6% per year, this is the minimum. With 5 lard = [1000/100] * 6 * 5 = 300 million losses per year. This is approximately the cost of one boat.
        By the way, the USA carries out 75% of its arms exports on credit.

        If so (75%), then they have a financial reserve. They are bucks and print.
  4. Nasty
    Nasty 28 August 2013 09: 21 New
    +2
    Yeah. If a country does not want to arm its army, it will arm a stranger.
    What is happening now? Why do our money go into the arming of a foreign army?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 August 2013 09: 49 New
      +4
      On the contrary, the money of a foreign army goes to our country wink . The Admiralty will be glad if they conclude.
      1. little man
        little man 28 August 2013 10: 44 New
        +1
        The Admiralty will be glad who would doubt it.
        But how good would this jamb of boats off the coast of Syria look?
  5. denson06
    denson06 28 August 2013 09: 24 New
    +2
    With all due respect to South Korea, our samples of submarine ships are much more technologically advanced .. this fleet went through a tough hardening during the Cold War .. Comparison of the capabilities of domestic and South Korean "boat building" I think it makes no sense ... and so everything is clear. . With respect! hi
    1. solomon
      solomon 28 August 2013 09: 56 New
      +2
      Russia proposed to the Indonesian government to acquire a dozen submarine diesel electric boats. The total cost of Russian submarines is estimated at five, and then and more, billion dollars.

      The Indonesian military department has signed a contract for the creation of diesel-electric submarines of the Chan Pogo type (amended Toure-209 project) in quantity three copies. The transaction amount is estimated at 1,2 billion dollars

      Maybe the question is the 20% cheapness of South Korean submarines compared to Russian?
    2. Windbreak
      Windbreak 28 August 2013 10: 33 New
      +1
      South Korean submarines are Ture 209 licensed German submarines.
  6. Per se.
    Per se. 28 August 2013 09: 45 New
    +6
    "Russia intends to sell ten submarines to Indonesia," and what not twenty or thirty, the customer wishes? I would like to swear ... After all, it's not ten boxes or wagons of vodka to spill and sell, it's to load your shipyards for years for someone else's uncle, when sand is already pouring from your fleet. I would not be surprised if there is a rich buyer for the newest T-50, after its advertisement at MAKS, and it will be pushed for export as a priority, the merchants are awful, forgive me, Lord.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 August 2013 09: 52 New
      +8
      For the Russian Navy build 6 submarines under the first contract, delivery time of the first 2014 year, last 2016 year. In 2015, it is planned to conclude another contract for another 6 boats.

      There are no bulk purchases for all fleets, as the Moscow Region wants a latest-generation boat with an air-independent installation. She will be the year to 17-18. Therefore, 636 are purchased for marine and secondary theaters, such as the Black Sea or the Baltic. At the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet, they plan to purchase exclusively boats of the latest generation with anaerobic units, but they are not yet ready.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 28 August 2013 10: 35 New
        +1
        If it was only about boats, we built six frigates for the same India, and in fact an aircraft carrier, tanks, aircraft, licenses and military technology, everything is for sale. Well, it would be okay, there was at least "fifty-fifty" with exports and myself, for the rearmament of the army and navy, the priority was clearly towards commercial interests, without much grief about national interests. Finally, is it not possible to re-equip the boats with anaerobic installations afterwards, we build them now without them, without wasting time, but having laid such a technical capability in the project? Probably you can, but you need such a desire, and not a reason not to do so.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 28 August 2013 12: 56 New
          +2
          About frigates, we also build 6x11356 ourselves. But again, the MO did not order the first years because there is 22350, twice as powerful as the last generation. However, there were problems with it (mainly for allied goods, such as CIUS, radar, etc.) - they immediately ordered a series for the Black Sea Fleet of spent 11356.

          We did not build an aircraft carrier, but upgraded it.

          By boat, no cheaper to build a new wink . Briefly, if on the basis of stirling, then it will be necessary to cut out the installed engines and install new ones. If hydrogen or other fuel cells, then we must rebuild the boat under them. For example, the 212 has low-power compact diesel engines for charging batteries and 9 exchange reactors based on Siemens fuel cells.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 28 August 2013 14: 00 New
            -1
            Dear donavi49, the aircraft carrier has been so modernized that it was actually built. I will not argue about the boats, I just thought that if the Germans could retrofit their early boats with a snorkel (or snorkel, a RDP device), then anaerobic installations, in the end, are not something like Walter's engine, but a kind of "snorkel" - gills for the engine ... I may be wrong. A special building, of course, is better than rework. Thank you for the clarification.
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 28 August 2013 14: 04 New
        0
        In the meantime, let strangers stand at our shipyards ... almost ready. And, as if by accident, the couple went to the buyer - until half-ready the next is the process of fine-tuning these ... Like other people's boats, we do not pay, but if something happens ...
        In addition, Australia is seen by some guys as a safe haven. Type can be set on fire and Eurasia and America and yourself to observe from a safe island. And suddenly, suddenly, there is a completely unsafe neighbor with claims ... and opportunities. Well this is so, by the way ...
  7. koksalek
    koksalek 28 August 2013 09: 49 New
    +4
    What's so cheap? We in Perm are not shy with the reconstruction of the opera house, we wanted 7,4 billion rubles, then we reduced it to 6,9 billion, and as a result we converged by 5 billion. Here is such a steepness, spend it to the maximum and sell it to the minimum
  8. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 28 August 2013 09: 56 New
    +3
    The country where Christians are executed for and without reason is not just new submarines, but also decommissioned Soviet military equipment cannot be offered.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 August 2013 10: 03 New
      +2
      Well, the world is somehow easier to relate to. For example, a country where all religions except Islam are prohibited by law, where a Sharia court pronounces sentences like cutting off their hands or breaking a spine in the central square of the country, where during a fire at school, the girls burned alive and the religious police didn’t let the firemen in, for the girls were inappropriate dressed to meet strangers.

      And nothing, the suppliers of these aircraft differ in some of the most stringent export restrictions (perhaps only tougher in Sweden) and they sell nothing with a bang. For everyone needs money, and it’s been no longer fashionable to build paladins out of yourself for a long time.
    2. Dangerous
      Dangerous 28 August 2013 10: 06 New
      -1
      This is called globalization. can’t get anywhere from this now
  9. Manager
    Manager 28 August 2013 10: 03 New
    0
    And I said that sales of gas and oil became few.
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 28 August 2013 13: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Manager
      And I said that sales of gas and oil became few.

      I also beat off all my fingers about the "Claudia" about this. Net profit of Gazprom for the first half of the year fell by one third, compared to the previous year.
  10. cdrt
    cdrt 28 August 2013 10: 08 New
    +3
    the purchase of two submarines "Halibut" project 877, which are offered for export under the designation "Cupid"

    "Horses, people mixed up ..."
    Project 877 Halibut is one thing (reliable old Varshavyanka), in Amur it is an export version of the half-dead so far project 677 Lada.

    Indonesia were proposed submarine project 636 "Cupid"

    Again - horses, people ... - 636 is a renovated Varshavyanka, Cupid is an export version of 677.
    The author of the article is minus, you need to check the subject information, and not just copy-paste.
  11. bistrov.
    bistrov. 28 August 2013 10: 11 New
    0
    It is most likely a matter of submarines that will be withdrawn from service in connection with the arrival of new ones that are now under construction. The old ones need to be put somewhere. Do not cut them for scrap? This is not the bossy. And so all the naval settlers are clogged with all sorts of rusty ships. Better to sell to someone for the cheap. Moreover, Indonesia has nothing to share with us. Let them slowly arm themselves. Improving the defense of third world countries, we thereby step on the tail of the United States and NATO. This also needs to be understood.
  12. Vtel
    Vtel 28 August 2013 10: 44 New
    +2
    So, according to him, Russia proposed to the Indonesian government to acquire a dozen submarine diesel electric boats.

    Judging by the style of the proposal, perhaps this is really a used boat. Then there is no incident, you need to free yourself from the old - the new is on the way.
  13. Russ69
    Russ69 28 August 2013 10: 49 New
    +1
    If the contract will be, then obviously many years. I doubt that they will lay all the boats at once. Well, they will build 2 pieces each, for our Navy this damage will not cause. We cannot build everything for ourselves at a time, both in technical and in financial capabilities.
    And any export other than currency implies the workload of our enterprises and guaranteed salaries for workers. All countries are fighting for the export of their products, I do not understand why we should give in to someone.
    Moreover, in the future it is also a service and some political dividends.
  14. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 28 August 2013 10: 56 New
    +1
    It is not for nothing that Indonesia is bought by the "country of a thousand islands", so they need a fleet:
    Indonesia now already has 2 diesel-electric submarines: 2 projects of 209 German projects; in 2015-2018 3 more diesel-electric submarines of the improved 209/1400 project built in South Korea are expected to be commissioned.
    DEPL type 209 Indonesian Navy

    6 frigates, the former Dutch type "Van Speik" (one of which is armed with the CD "Brahmos"), 2017 frigates of the SIGMA 2 type are expected to arrive in 10514.
    Launch of the BR "Bramos" from the Indonesian frigate

    23 Corvette:
    3 former Dutch Fatahillahs with Exocet anti-ship missiles
    4 newest type "Diponegoro", newest type Sigma 9113;
    16 of the project 1331M, purchased during the sale of the NNA GDR fleet.
    project 1331M Indonesian corvette “Kut Nyak Dien”, former German “Lubz”

    In 2013-2014, 3 Nakhoda Ragam class corvettes built in the UK are expected to arrive.
    There is one training frigate Hajar Dewantara, built in 1 in Yugoslavia, with the Exocet anti-ship missile system.
    3 rocket boats of their own construction, armed with Chinese anti-ship missiles. 3 more units ordered. The construction of 4 trimaran missile boats has begun. 4 units were ordered, however 1 completely burned down on 28.09.2012/XNUMX/XNUMX.
    53 patrol ships (8 built in Australia, 4 in South Korea, 2 Soviet, 1 Singaporean, the rest of the local building); In the United States ordered another 19 units.
    12 minesweepers:
    2 former Dutch type "Tripartite";
    9 buildings of the GDR type 89.2 (Condor-2), purchased with MPK pr.1331M and MDK pr.108
    1 Soviet project T-43.
    Significant amphibious forces:
    5 UDC type Makassar;

    8 TDK, American LST from the Second World War. It is planned to build 3 TDK in Indonesia.
    6 landing ships of the Tacoma type since World War II.
    12 landing ships of type 108 produced by the GDR. ; landing boats.
    The plan for 2024 is the composition of the Navy: 56 frigates, 38 corvettes, 10 submarines, 41 TDK, 3 BDK.
    Yours! hi
    1. smiths xnumx
      smiths xnumx 28 August 2013 12: 06 New
      +1
      Well, let's move on to the Marine Corps of Indonesia:
      Organizationally, it includes 2 divisions (planned to increase to 3)
      The armament consists of: 90 amphibious tanks PT-76. At the end of the 1990s, modernized engines, transmissions and 90-mm Kokeril guns were installed. In the Western press are designated as PT-200

      21 BRDM-2
      100 French BMX AMX-10 (10 with a 90-mm gun AMX-10PAC 90)

      17 BMP-3F (total ordered 54, 37 with delivery by July 2013, so that the delivery was likely to take place),

      40 BVP-2, Slovak copy of BMP-2

      12 BTR-80A (English Wiki speaks of 48)
      190 BTR-50 modernized in Indonesia,

      10 American floating armored personnel carriers LVTP-7A1 (35 ordered).
      7 Czech MLRS RM-70 (Czechoslovak copy of the "Grad")
      12 140 mm old Soviet MLRS BM-14 (possibly withdrawn from service)
      28 122 mm Soviet M-30 howitzers
      22 French 105mm LG1 guns
      150 anti-aircraft guns (40-mm Swedish Bofors L60, Bofors L60 and 57-mm Soviet S-60)
      Yours! hi
  15. dimon-media
    dimon-media 28 August 2013 11: 06 New
    +3
    What is the dispute about? And we and they have enough technology. Our military-industrial complex cannot do without export. Him to our military-industrial complex) for some subsidies to develop chtoli ?? who else will give them? Where can we get money for development, purchase of equipment, machine tools, reconstruction and modernization of production, if the whole industry is a joint-stock company and a joint-stock company? Who will give money for all this? So we have to produce large quantities of military equipment for export to keep the factories "afloat." Here you are not the USSR when the secretary general said, the plant made for his army. We have to get out ourselves and equip our production in anticipation of the state defense order.
  16. Volkhov
    Volkhov 28 August 2013 11: 41 New
    0
    Buy - do not buy, and the drive to the market should have begun.
    It is best to distill in the water position, leave the helmsman on the boat, and the team in the boat in a long tug.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 28 August 2013 13: 01 New
      +1
      This is easiest, they can do it on their own, they can be ferry.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 28 August 2013 13: 31 New
        0
        And to jump off ...
  17. Dmitry Zurn
    Dmitry Zurn 28 August 2013 13: 04 New
    +3
    Indonesia is a dynamically developing state, by its way, the Soviet Union owes its independence. The strengthening of friendly and economic relations, in my opinion, is not conceived without an interconnection in the defense sphere. Such contracts provide jobs in Russia, and high-tech jobs, leads to an increase in the experience of workers and engineers of the shipbuilding industry in Russia (which we really miss). And about the fears that our shipyards will be busy, nothing new will be built, which will only positively affect the shipbuilding industry. So I think this news is good, it remains to sign a contract.
  18. tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 28 August 2013 15: 02 New
    +1
    Yes, sell at least 120, just do it first ahead of schedule state program for the rearmament of its own fleet.