Military Review

Russia began preparations for the creation of a Ukraine-EU FTA

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“Ukrainians, forget about the Russian market, you do not need it! I am an ardent supporter of the Association Agreement with Europe, not of joining the Customs Union. Because all the benefits from the Customs Union are speculative ... And the agreement with the EU is new markets for our products. ” (Deputy Chairman of the Party of Regions Sergey Tigipko, 26.04.2013, Schuster Live).


Russia began preparations for the creation of a Ukraine-EU FTA


Since 14 August, all Ukrainian exporters, without exception, have been added to the risk profile of the risk management system of the Federal Customs Service of Russia. What does the enhanced control of products imported into Russia from the territory of Ukraine mean?

One after another, there were reports of blocking Ukrainian goods at the Russian border due to the complexity of customs procedures. For example, Interfax-Ukraine, citing the press service of the wine-making holding Inkerman International, reported that the machines with the products of this company "could not pass the customs control of the Russian side and were forced to leave the goods in temporary storage warehouses." Similar information was spread by Ukrainian metallurgical companies. Obolon Corporation announced that it suspended the shipment of products to the Russian Federation due to the blocking of Ukrainian goods at the Russian border ... And so on. etc ... By the middle of the day 15 of August, about a thousand cars were accumulated on the approaches to the Russian-Ukrainian border.

Ukraine began to calculate the possible losses. Thus, APK-Inform stated that the current situation is fraught with a loss of about 250 mln UAH, which Ukraine receives annually from the export of fresh fruits and vegetables. The Federation of Employers of Ukraine (FRU) called the figure $ 2,5 billion in potential losses by the end of 2013. “Ukraine’s losses from the described actions of the Russian side can be achieved, depending on the development of events, in $ 2 – 2,5 billion only in the second half of the current year. As a result, the balance of payments deficit will increase by the specified amount. It can also be assumed that this will lead to an additional fall in the industrial production index by 7 – 8 percentage points and affect the reduction of real GDP by about 1,5%, ”predicted FRU.

As one would expect, Ukrainian politicians began to actively comment on the situation in the style of “Moscow is again pressing and blackmailing”. The head of the political council of the Batkivshchyna party, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, stated that “such actions are another manifestation of Russia's pressure on Ukraine” and “in fact, forced to join the Customs Union.” Funny. So what? "Forced" Ukraine to join the CU? Not. Yatsenyuk himself said in the statement that “Ukraine has already made its choice”: “The course for European integration is enshrined in the legislation of Ukraine, and an association agreement between Ukraine and the EU should be signed at the Vilnius Eastern Partnership Summit.” So what's the problem?

Or here's Oksana Prodat’s deputy comment from UDAR: To Interfax-Ukraine: “Of course, this is obviously a step in order to prevent Ukraine from joining the European Association and signing the Association Agreement.” Also interesting. And how can the actions of Russian customs “not allow” Ukraine to sign an association agreement with the EU? Completely incomprehensible.

In a similar vein, spoken and representatives of the ruling party. For example, the People’s Deputy from PR Vladimir Oliynyk: “Friendship, mutual respect are built not on the fear that you will lose something, but on what you have gained from communication, associations ... Ukraine is being tried to be forced to unite with the Customs Union in an uncivilized way.” It seems that Mr. Oliynyk was lost in time. Ukraine was quite civilized for several years invited to join the Customs Union, always emphasizing that the foreign policy choice is its sovereign right. However, the foreign policy choice - the CU or the EU - also contains a trade and economic dimension. In Moscow, they simply react to the integration vector of Ukraine. How could it be otherwise?

There are a number of factors that determine the current situation.

The first. There is such a reality as the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. There is no need to be a rocket scientist in order to understand that this means a change in the mode of trade between members of the CU and those who are not part of this economic union. Is Ukraine a member of the CU? Not. With all the consequences of this fact.

Second. Kiev is preparing in the near future to sign an agreement on political association with the European Union (which, in particular, Mr. Yatsenyuk recalled), of which the creation of the Ukraine-EU FTA is a part. The latter changes the mode of trade between Ukraine and Europe, which, in turn, will lead to a change in the trade regime between Ukraine and the countries of the Customs Union. The Ukraine-EU FTA is not yet a reality, but already very close (given the well-known attitude of the Ukrainian authorities).

Those. Ukraine in recent years is experiencing difficulties with access to the Russian market due to the beginning of the functioning of the Customs Union (and its refusal to participate in this organization). And soon there will be new difficulties in the Russian market (and the rest of the CU countries) - not only as a non-CU country, but also as a member of the FTA with the EU.

The recent actions of the Russian customs are in essence the preparation of Russia for the creation of an FTA between Ukraine and the European Union.

Warnings from which they did not draw conclusions

What, in fact, is happening on the Ukrainian-Russian border, which is why the flow of goods has stopped? It's simple: the Russian customs carefully checks the documentation for the goods transported, especially the so-called certificate CT-1, in other words, certificate of origin of goods. A certificate of origin is a document confirming that the goods were produced in a given country. It is included in the package of documents necessary for crossing the border and the subsequent legal sale of products.

There are several forms of certificates of origin, but CT-1 in the light of the situation in question is the most relevant. This is a document confirming that the products are manufactured in the CIS countries - parties to the agreement (from 15 on April 1994) about the free trade zone (CT-1 and is valid only in the CIS). CT-1 exempts the recipient of the goods from the need to pay VAT in the customs duty on the goods. Those. This is a preferential customs clearance of goods. Moreover, if the origin of the goods is not reliably established, then it is necessary to pay the customs duty at the maximum rate (according to the law of the Russian Federation "On Customs Tariff"). It should be noted that this provision of the Russian law also applies to goods imported from the countries of the Customs Union.

And at the moment, Russian customs are subjecting these same CT-1 (and other documents) to a complete check - are the goods really Ukrainian? This, of course, leads to temporary delays in the passage of goods through customs and, as a result, to the losses of Ukrainian entrepreneurs.

Is it any wonder? Not. For a number of years, high-ranking Russian officials have repeatedly issued warnings to this account, explaining very clearly why this will happen.

So, 15 March 2011 of the year at a press conference following the EurAsEC Interstate Council and the meeting of the Council of Ministers of the Union State, Vladimir Putin (at the time, Prime Minister of the Russian Federation), stressing that the decision on joining / not joining the CU is ", Said:" We know that Ukraine is negotiating the creation of a free trade zone with the European Union. The level of customs protection that Ukraine has uttered when joining the WTO is more than two times lower than our single customs tariff. And even in the case of Russia's accession to the WTO, on the grounds that we have now identified for ourselves with the partners in the WTO negotiations, it will hardly change - it will be twice as high as the Ukrainian one. ”

What does this mean for Ukrainian-Russian trade and economic relations? “This means that if Ukraine creates a free trade zone together with the European Union and will be forced to concede in many positions that are sensitive to the Ukrainian economy, then it will of course expect that these goods will go to the Russian market. And we cannot afford to do this, ”said Vladimir Vladimirovich.

Therefore, according to him, in this situation Russia will be forced to start building a border. “We with colleagues, both with Belarus and Kazakhstan, are clearly aware of this. I do not believe that both Kazakhstan and Belarus will immediately put before Russia the question of closing the customs border. But one does not have to be an expert in order to understand that the consequences will be grave, ”said the Russian prime minister.

Commenting two and a half years ago on the said statement of the Russian president, we wrote: “It’s clear that Putin’s words have no hint of either“ pressure ”or, even less, the“ blackmail ”of Ukraine. No wonder he stressed that to join or not to join the Customs Union is the sovereign right of Kiev. Putin simply called a spade a spade. Directly and honestly, as it should be in relations between partners. So that later the introduction was not a surprise even by Russia, but by the Customs Union (after all, the Russian prime minister didn’t even speak on behalf of Moscow) of measures aimed at protecting the customs space of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan from the consequences of Ukraine’s creating a free trade zone with the EU ... If Ukraine ready to sacrifice its trade and economic relations with the countries of the Customs Union (for example, for the sake of certain political goals - “joining Europe”) - this is its sovereign right. However, Russia (as well as Belarus and Kazakhstan) has the same sovereign right to protect its economic interests ”(“ Russia will not pay for European integration of Ukraine ”,“ 2000 ”, No.13 (552) 1 – 7 in April 2011).

At the same time, we recalled that the problematic issues raised by Vladimir Putin are not new. And that almost in the same form they rose even at the time when it was discussed the need to synchronize the accession of Ukraine and Russia to the WTO, which was also warned by 2000 in the year already distant 2003: "... an important point that should be considered , are quite painful costs assumed after joining the WTO, and their impact on the state of Ukrainian-Russian economic relations. A number of Ukrainian industries will not be able to compete with foreign manufacturers who will come to our open spaces. And first of all these are enterprises oriented to the domestic market (exporters are therefore exporters because they are competitive in world markets). Where to go the products of these enterprises? The obvious option is to look for other markets. The main one is the CIS countries, and among them, first of all, Russia. But if Ukraine and Russia do not coordinate their steps on the WTO and enter on significantly different conditions, then Moscow’s natural step is the barriers (taxation, quotas, etc.) on the way of Ukrainian goods. And Russia in one form or another has repeatedly stated this. At the same time barriers will be installed on whole groups of goods. That is, not only potential suppliers to the Russian market will suffer, but also those who work on it now. It is quite obvious that setting trade barriers makes all sorts of arguments about a free trade zone between our countries meaningless ... ”(“ Kuchma cut another window into Europe ”//“ 2000 ”, No.23 (173) 6 — 12 June 2003) .

The creation of a Ukraine-EU free trade zone (an integral part of the agreement on political association with the European Union, which is planned to be signed in November of this year) against the background of the formation of the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan makes the above problems even more acute.

Today, there is a special trade regime between Ukraine and Russia (it is within this regime that the above mentioned CT-1 operate), while the borders between our states are almost open. Thus, due to the creation of an FTA with the EU, Europe will in fact receive a kind of “back door” (represented by Ukraine) to promote its products to the Russian market. Accordingly, the protective measures taken by Russia and its partners in the Customs Union will prove to be useless. The concern of the CU countries about this is quite reasonable. And it is quite natural to review the current trade regime between Ukraine and the CU countries. It is not surprising that such a thorough verification of CT-1 certificates - are goods of Ukrainian origin imported into Russia?

18 March 2011 th at the forum of business leaders of the CIS countries, First Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Igor Shuvalov said that the FTA of Ukraine with the European Union is a serious threat to the economic interests of the countries of the Customs Union. “The conditions that are currently being discussed between Ukraine and the EU on a free trade zone can be quite a serious threat to the countries of the Customs Union,” he said, adding that there is a risk that the goods for which he has put barriers appear on the market of the CU countries, through the Ukrainian corridor.

23 March 2011 representative from the Institute of Economic Forecasting of the Russian Academy of Sciences Alexander Shirov said during the Kiev-Moscow video bridge that if Kiev creates a free trade zone with Europe, the West will be able to use this loophole to promote its products in the Russian Federation. “Ukraine will turn into just a transit point. Therefore, Russia will be forced to introduce the same customs regime as, for example, with Latvia. Bets will be different, everything will be tougher, ”he warned.

5 June 2011, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, on the radio station Ekho Moskvy, said that Ukraine needs to equalize its customs tariffs to at least the average on the WTO - if it does not want to get problems with access to the Russian market. He noted that Ukraine has reduced its customs tariffs to 4%, although on average for the WTO they constitute 10%, "and there will also be in the Customs Union: in the Customs Union, on average, 10% customs tariffs". Ukraine, stressed S. Lavrov, “must understand that if suddenly it opens its borders for the European Union, then the Customs Union, which is guided by the averaged WTO norms, will defend itself”. And he added: "this is not a threat, this is a clean economy."

“I think that even in the interests of Ukraine, to tell WTO members:“ Guys, excuse me, I will go to some kind of harmonization with the members of the Customs Union, therefore, here are the specific tariffs that, under Yushchenko, were, well, actually surrendered without a fight , we will align them. We will align them not under the Customs Union of 3 countries, but will align under the average WTO indicators, ”the Russian Foreign Minister noted. At the end of last year, the Ukrainian authorities made a timid attempt to revise tariff commitments, which Kiev shouldered during its accession to the WTO, but “squeezed” from Brussels - and the process stopped.

7 June 2011, Vladimir Putin, speaking to reporters after talks with Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov, noted that no one is going to drag anyone into the Customs Union, but Russia will protect the interests of its producers. “There is no policy here; Ukraine itself should decide whether it is beneficial for it or not,” Putin said.

He recalled that at the moment we are talking about the entry of Ukraine into the free trade zone with the EU. And in this context, Vladimir Vladimirovich described the situation when Europeans would restrict access to their market to any “sensitive” goods of Ukrainian origin, and Ukraine, on the contrary, would have to open its market for European goods. “What shall we do? We will have to ensure the protection of the external borders of the Customs Union from the penetration of such goods to our market, which will have nowhere to go, ”Putin said. He also stressed that “such things need to be talked about in advance” (which, as we see, was done - SL). “We will have to protect our national producer,” Putin concluded.

In connection with the current difficulties during the passage of Russian customs in the largest Ukrainian mining and metallurgical holding Metinvest stated that there is a “continuous inspection with an overhang of all incoming metal”, moreover, “total checks of authenticity of certificates of origin of metal imported from Ukraine began with shipment their examination in Moscow, which can last up to two months. " Long. At this time, market niches may be lost - for example, they are occupied by Russian manufacturers. But is it really surprising?

July 15 2011 in the course of communication with the employees of OJSC Magnitogorsk Iron and Steel Works, Vladimir Putin noted that “Ukraine is, of course, a country with a developed metallurgical industry and, of course, your (Russian metallurgists - SL) competitor” . The political leadership of Ukraine, pointed out Vladimir Vladimirovich, has no plans to join the CU. "What does this mean? This means that the three countries - Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan - will agree on how to protect their domestic market from products from third countries, ”he stressed. Well, to protect your domestic market, everything goes in the course, incl. and similar strict customs control, which can be completely attributed to one of the forms of non-tariff restrictions (on this topic we wrote in the article “Peter Alekseevich, Europe’s“ huge markets ”at your disposal!” // 2000, No. XXUMX-31 (32 ) 663 - 9 August 15 g.).

Or, 19 of March of 2012, the then Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, said after the meeting of the Interstate Council of the Eurasian Economic Community: “We talked about what the Customs Union gives, about its advantages and about certain difficulties that may arise and already arise among states who are not members of the Customs Union. Such is life: if you participate in any international education, you get a certain set of privileges; if you don’t participate in this international legal entity, you may have difficulties accordingly. ”

26 April 2013 th adviser to the president of Russia Sergey Glazyev on the air of the Shuster Live program: “We must understand that we live in market conditions. And we do not live in a united socialist fraternity. And the market conditions are such that economic entities compete there. Compete for their profits, for their interests. If we want Ukraine to receive the advantages that participants in a single economic space have - Belarus and Kazakhstan, it means that we need to be inside, not outside. The customs border is a line of barricades. If you are on one side of the barricades, inside a single economic space, then you get all the resources and all your production are the same as everyone else. Based on fair direct competition. If you are on the other side of the barricades, then you naturally get all the delights of modern market relations. And nowhere to go from this.

Etc. etc. This, of course, is far from a complete list of warnings about the consequences of foreign policy choices (objective, we emphasize the consequences) that were voiced by the Ukrainian partners in advance from Russia. So no wonder what is happening. If in Kiev they didn’t hear or didn’t want to hear, they didn’t draw any conclusions for themselves from these warnings - Moscow, and then?

By the way, the situation with phytosanitary claims against Roshen products should not have been a “surprise” (interpreted as “Moscow pressure”) for Kiev. Back in October, Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov wrote 2011 on his Facebook page that “much of the trade is determined not even by the trade regime, but by the existing technical regulations ... for example, product quality issues, sanitary, phytosanitary standards, etc. can seriously complicate the lives of our entrepreneurs. " “In addition to general rules in trade, general technical regulations should also be in force. Then removed a large number of problems in mutual trade. That is why I gave instructions to consider the possibility of joining those regulations that operate within the framework of the Customs Union, ”he pointed out. Another thing is that Ukraine, within the framework of its “non-alternative European integration”, adapts itself to the system of EU standards and regulations, which significantly differ from the technical regulations of the Customs Union (the CU has a wider list of products subject to certification; the Soviet principle of standardization, etc. ).

But today, Russia vividly demonstrates in which mode of enhanced control goods from Ukraine will cross the Ukrainian-Russian border after the creation of the last FTZ with the European Union.

What else has Russia warned in advance?

Given that the Ukrainian political elite is experiencing obvious problems with hearing, it makes sense to recall a number of warnings that Moscow made quite a partnership, but which, most likely, will be ignored by Kiev. I am sure that some time will pass, Ukrainian officials and politicians will again begin to shrug and throw up their hands - “what is happening ?!”, accompanying with demagogy on the topic “pressure of Kremlin imperialism”. And yet.

In March of this year. We wrote that "Russia has not yet fully utilized such an integration argument as import substitution."

“Russia is not just the main market for Ukraine, but the market to which our manufacturers supply high-tech products, goods with a high degree of processing and high added value. The West does not need Ukrainian planes, cars or machines. Russia is needed. Until. In the Soviet times, Ukrainian production of high-tech goods was created as part of a single national economic complex. But Ukraine further does not want to be in the same economic space with Russia (it is equal with Belarus and Kazakhstan). What, one wonders, should deter Russia (and other countries of the CU) in launching the full power of import substitution programs? After all, let's be frank, nothing so special - what Russia and its CU partners could not produce independently, Ukraine does not produce. And for the States of the Customs Union, the creation of their industries, replacing the Ukrainian counterparts, is a revival of the economy, GDP growth, technology development, additional budget revenues, new jobs. Maybe Mikhail Zurabov spoke about this: “Sami? So, yourself. Only then no offense "?", - we noted (see "The loss of the Russian market is the collapse of Ukraine" // "2000", No.10 (645) 8 - 14 March 2013 g.).

Two months later, our forecast began to come true - the CU was thinking about restricting imports and replacing it with its own production. On May 23, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated at a meeting with the business community in Voronezh that Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus are discussing the issue of limiting imports. “We are now with colleagues in the Customs Union - with Belarusians and Kazakhs - just thinking about how to take appropriate decisions within the framework of the Customs Union, but so that these decisions do not contradict WTO principles,” Putin said.

We note that Ukraine has long taken steps in this direction, incl. trying to oust Russian imports from the Ukrainian market (in Moscow, however, on this occasion they are not satisfied with the hysterics in the style of "Kiev blackmails", "Kiev presses" and so on.). For example, on August 27, 2012, Prime Minister Azarov, during the opening ceremony of the Staltech steelworks plant in Brovary (Kyiv region), said that Ukraine would completely refuse to import metalwork from the Russian Federation: “We have practically abandoned the purchase of metalwork in Russia. Everything that we bought at Russian factories we can already manufacture at our factories. ” It is obvious that in Russia they can also produce at their enterprises much of what they import from Ukraine today.

A reduction (and in some areas and a complete cessation) of cooperation between Ukraine and Russia is coming. Back in October, 2011, at the Rhodes Forum in Greece, the executive secretary of the Customs Union Commission, Sergei Glazyev, warned that Ukraine’s accession to the free trade zone with the European Union would entail an accelerated curtailment of the Ukrainian-Russian scientific and technical cooperation “in aircraft manufacturing, energy, engineering, space rocket cooperation and shipbuilding. " In numerical terms, he said, this would mean a reduction of Ukrainian exports by $ 2 billion per year.

25 April this year Vladimir Putin on the air of the Russian central TV channels, arguing on the topic of Ukraine’s accession / non-entry into the CU, noted that Ukraine “is tied by very extensive cooperation” to the countries of the Customs Union, the rejection of which (as one of the consequences of Kiev’s western integration vector) irreparable loss. "

Finally, the “non-alternative European choice” also means a blow to the interests of those Ukrainians who annually go to work in Russia. According to the NBU, in 2012, labor migrants sent $ 6,5 billion to their families. Most from Russia - $ 2,3 billion (35% of the total). And this is only the amount that went through the payment system. And how much was imported in cash?

21 April 2012, Yuri Kozhankov, former director of the legal department of the Secretariat of the Customs Union Commission and one of the developers of the Customs Code of the CU, more than frankly warned: “We will only protect citizens of our countries with economic and social rights. We are humane only in relation to their own. With respect to citizens of non-union states, you can call this discrimination. ”

4 March this year During a meeting with his Ukrainian counterpart Viktor Yanukovych, Vladimir Putin said bluntly that as integration ties develop within the framework of the Customs Union, it will be more difficult for citizens of Ukraine to find employment in the Russian Federation. “Starting from 2015, our labor movement will be restricted from countries other than the Customs Union. We have already announced this publicly. The current preferential procedure for the movement of labor will be maintained only for the countries of the Customs Union, ”Putin said.

But there is no reason to complain about the “intrigues of the Kremlin” - all these are the objective consequences of Ukraine’s integration choice.
Author:
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  1. gud123
    gud123 28 August 2013 07: 06
    26
    The screamers do not want to understand one thing - the people are much smarter and wiser than their grief rulers !!!!
    1. Civil
      Civil 28 August 2013 07: 12
      -28 qualifying.
      1. Ukraine is not for sale, there is the same mentality as here.
      2. It is necessary as the USA to stupidly buy the top of the country and, accordingly, they will sign the entry into the CU.
      3. If it was not possible to buy, then in Ukraine a healthy elite is obtained, which means they have nothing to do in the TS.
      1. Papakiko
        Papakiko 28 August 2013 08: 36
        21
        Quote: Civil
        1. Ukraine is not for sale, there is the same mentality as here.

        Shit belayWhat is it with us?
        Quote: Civil
        2. It is necessary as the USA to stupidly buy the top of the country and, accordingly, they will sign the entry into the CU.

        Comrad apparently got lost? Throughout all the "independent years" only they are engaged in prostitution, both political and economic ("Motor Sich", "KB Antonov", etc.)
        Quote: Civil
        3. If it was not possible to buy, then in Ukraine a healthy elite is obtained, which means they have nothing to do in the TS.

        Yes, it's nowhere healthier. More than half of the citizens have relatives in all states of the CU (Former USSR) and are especially strongly intertwined with Russia. But the "elite" from the largest bell tower to this, although citizens also perceive this issue with indifference.
        Finally, the “non-alternative European choice” also means a blow to the interests of those Ukrainians who annually go to work in Russia. According to the NBU, in 2012, labor migrants sent $ 6,5 billion to their families. Most from Russia - $ 2,3 billion (35% of the total). And this is only the amount that went through the payment system. And how much was imported in cash?
        On this question I am a proponent of full oxygen shutdown since the early 2000s. Many "citizens" of Ukraine feed in the regions of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug, Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug, Yakutia and Magadan, among whom there are quite a few residents from the western regions of the "Nezalezhnaya" region.
        Quote: serge-68-68
        I don’t know how it is now, but in 2005 Lithuanian farmers were paid extra so that they would not sow anything.

        And in Holondosia, they pay extra so that milk yield does not exceed 7 liters per cow per day. And there are many other "miracles" in the EU, and in the mattress too.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. silver_roman
          silver_roman 28 August 2013 12: 24
          27
          met friends from Latvia. it was said that when the EU joined Latvia they gave a list of their enterprises on about 4-5 sheets of a4, which should be closed or liquidated. Latvia as a result lost sooo much. the guys said that now it’s just tin and, what’s most interesting ... they said they would be very happy (!) to enter Russia !!! So they said. I'm not lying)).

          Ukraine is blindly rushing to this incomprehensible meaningless association with the EU, sacrificing everything that still somehow functions. The top of the board of "Nezalezhnaya" even stupidly ignores the principles, rates, and interest on economic indicators, just to get a wink from Brussels.
          I liked the last visit of VVP to Ukraine, when he came to Yanyk, "smoked" with him for 15 minutes and Putin disappeared to Medvedchuk in Crimea. And now a rhetorical question: who will be the next president of Ukraine? and who will Russia support in the election race? and Yanukovchia's reputation rested on only one thing: warm ties with Moscow. now, when Ukraine will feel all the "delights" from cooperation with the EU, when prices for goods will rise, the communal apartment will rise, then Yanyk will be torn to pieces.
          The main thing is to have time to maneuver back .. to the east, but again the question is: will we be welcomed in the east ??? after all the vagaries, intrigues and other snot ??? whining about the brotherhood of nations, etc. will begin! In general, difficult times are coming for Ukraine, and I’m not even a little comfortable to realize all this, as a citizen of the Russian Federation living for certain circumstances in Ukraine!
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 August 2013 14: 41
            +5
            Quote: silver_roman
            The main thing is to have time to maneuver back .. to the east, but again the question is: will we be welcomed in the east ???

            More pragmatism. Mutual The benefits will be welcomed always and everywhere.
          2. FATEMOGAN
            FATEMOGAN 28 August 2013 16: 20
            +4
            A couple of films about Latvia and Eastern Europe, how they "got rich" in old Europe ....



          3. ksan
            ksan 28 August 2013 18: 29
            +2
            The main thing is to have time to maneuver back .. to the east, but again the question is: will we be welcomed in the east ??? after all the vagaries, intrigues and other snot ??? whining about the brotherhood of nations, etc. will begin! In general, difficult times are coming for Ukraine, and I’m not even a little comfortable to realize all this, as a citizen of the Russian Federation living for certain circumstances in Ukraine!
            I think Ukraine will sooner or later join the CU. Most likely after the elections in 2015, if the economic situation deteriorates, and it worsens after joining the FTA with the EU, then a "team" will come to power in the elections, set to integrate with the CU. It's just a pity that "all the charm" of these experiments will touch the common people of Ukraine and not those who started it.
        3. psdf
          psdf 29 August 2013 02: 28
          0
          Ukraine carefully climbs on a rake on which the Baltic states have already stepped. Only the rake has grown and the blow will be much tougher, and those who put them into account take into account that it is possible to take much more from Ukraine.
      2. domokl
        domokl 28 August 2013 08: 41
        18
        Quote: Civil
        If it was not possible to buy, then in Ukraine a healthy elite is obtained, which means they have nothing to do in the TS.

        The third paragraph you crossed out the first two. If now we do not take measures to protect our loved ones, then we will substitute both Belarusians and Kazakhs. TS is still a union, a union of equal rights.
        Ukraine has cut the chunk and stopping the process is no longer possible. It is necessary to close the borders, to enter exactly the same relations as with other WTO countries. And it is too late to regret.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 28 August 2013 09: 23
          +5
          Quote: domokl
          Ukraine is no longer able to cut the chunk and stop the process. It is necessary to close the borders and introduce exactly the same relations as with other WTO countries.

          1. No need to promise. So far, only the Yanukovych’s government is a cut piece.

          2. Initially, all these 20 years did not have to pay for the independence of Ukraine at the expense of the Russians.

          3. WTO is also different. Specifically, it should be much more difficult for Ukraine to sell goods in the CU than in the "associated" EU. Otherwise, what's the point of playing these "alliances".

          4. In addition to the WTO procedures and possible inspections related to these rules, there is still much that needs to be reviewed. For example, collecting VAT. And this is 18-20% of the cost of the goods. In this case, it will be more profitable to buy almost any Ukrainian heading in foreign countries, as there will always be a country that, under equal conditions, will offer both the best price and the best quality (because of the climate, because of less taxation inside, etc.)

          5. Import substitution is relevant not only in relation to Ukraine. GDP must be really doubled. This can be done, for example, by actively investing in import substitution. But the government of Russia does not set such goals. I wonder why?
          1. Papakiko
            Papakiko 28 August 2013 09: 58
            +4
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            5. Import substitution is relevant not only in relation to Ukraine. GDP must be really doubled. This can be done, for example, by actively investing in import substitution. But the government of Russia does not set such goals. I wonder why?

            You often need to go through resources like: http://sdelanounas.ru/
            How is it possible to import Brazilian-Argentinean fruit-vegetables and naturally Beef?
            It will be possible to replace it when all the goods on the shelves are produced in accordance with GOSTs and not according to TU.
            From my collection;
            1. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. 28 August 2013 10: 37
              +3
              Quote: Papakiko
              It will be possible to replace when all goods on store shelves will be produced in accordance with GOSTs and not in accordance with TU.

              Everything needs to be dealt with at the same time: import substitution, quality with technical regulations and guests, and another hundred thousand million other problems. No one said that the government should be easy. It is necessary to work, and not to fatten and vandalize. Or what else are these Bears with the Serdyukovs, Skrynniks and other Dvorkovichs and Shuvalovs doing.
            2. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 28 August 2013 21: 26
              +1
              Quote: Papakiko
              It will be possible to replace it when all the goods on the shelves are produced in accordance with GOSTs and not according to TU.

              But the guests then want to cancel
          2. Jake danzels
            Jake danzels 28 August 2013 10: 25
            -28 qualifying.
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            2. Initially, all these 20 years did not have to pay for the independence of Ukraine at the expense of the Russians.

            In more detail, please, it’s painfully interesting how you paid for the independence of Ukraine? winked
            1. ultra
              ultra 28 August 2013 10: 43
              23
              Quote: Jake Danzels
              In more detail, please, it’s painfully interesting how you paid for the independence of Ukraine?

              No problem! How many years Ukraine has received energy resources at bargain prices, and even managed not to pay for such prices! How many times it was written off debts for political reasons, receiving only promises of "eternal" friendship in return!
              1. Kars
                Kars 28 August 2013 10: 49
                +1
                Quote: ultra
                No problem! How many years Ukraine has received energy resources at bargain prices, and even managed not to pay for such prices! How many times it was written off debts for political reasons, receiving only promises of "eternal" friendship in return!

                But really how much?
                At what price did Ukraine receive gas and at what price did it go to Germany at the same time? What price did Ukraine take for transit and what kind of Poland did it take?
                What is the amount of debt write-off to Ukraine?
                Quote: hert
                old man, preferential taxation, privileges on export-import operations, preferential lending

                And you tell us in more detail? Maybe Russia used in the Ukrainian Market what kind of preferences not to be?
                1. skeptic
                  skeptic 28 August 2013 14: 32
                  +7
                  Quote: Kars
                  But really how much?
                  At what price did Ukraine receive gas and at what price did it go to Germany at the same time? What price did Ukraine take for transit and what kind of Poland did it take?
                  What is the amount of debt write-off to Ukraine?


                  The answer will be your benefits from the EU and the loss of ties with the CU. The most important thing is that it will not be possible to win back without losses and back. If the CU countries launch new enterprises in the import substitution regime, no one will close them for the sake of the potential "return of the prodigal sister" of Ukraine. Since the enterprises will be built using the most modern achievements of science and technology, Ukraine will be able to compete only by dumping - if it is allowed.

                  After that, for yourself, you can say for yourself what you won and what you lost. But to live in a regime that is not winter, I will bite it - it will not work. Like that. request
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 28 August 2013 15: 00
                    +3
                    Quote: skeptic
                    Your benefits will be the answer.

                    It was strange to ask the net clearly about the past, but here it turns out the answer from the future to wait. And at least 14 of those who put in plus Ultre should know the answer.
                    Quote: skeptic
                    . If the countries of the Customs Union in the mode of import substitution will launch new enterprises

                    It is strange that they have not done it so far, has someone interfered?
                    1. skeptic
                      skeptic 28 August 2013 16: 22
                      +2
                      Quote: Kars
                      Quote: skeptic
                      Your benefits will be the answer.

                      It was strange to ask the net clearly about the past, but here it turns out the answer from the future to wait. And at least 14 of those who put in plus Ultre should know the answer.


                      Once such a booze rolled, from myself now Ultre also added a plus sign.
                      And about the past, we often had to go to Ukraine to buy goods produced in Russia, since it was impossible to buy from us. at the top of the USSR, they tried for you. Now such a redistribution is impossible to imagine, fortunately. There were positive aspects, in the unity of peoples, but more and more they are leveled by flows of mutual insults - to enemies for joy.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 28 August 2013 16: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: skeptic
                        Once such a booze rolled, from myself now Ultre also added a plus sign.

                        But still did not answer the question
                        Quote: Kars
                        But really how much?
                        At what price did Ukraine receive gas and at what price did it go to Germany at the same time? What price did Ukraine take for transit and what kind of Poland did it take?
                        What is the amount of debt write-off to Ukraine?

                        Quote: skeptic
                        we often had to go to Ukraine to buy goods made in Russia, since it was impossible to buy them from us

                        What was it if not a secret?
                      2. skeptic
                        skeptic 28 August 2013 17: 21
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        Quote: skeptic
                        we often had to go to Ukraine to buy goods made in Russia, since it was impossible to buy them from us

                        What was it if not a secret?


                        For example, spare parts for an IZH motorcycle, clothes (including the Azov sewing factory No. 13, which there was nowhere to buy in Azov), and much more.
                        There was a black anecdote in Soviet times. At the entrance exams in history, the examiner asks the applicant a question - "how many people died in the Second World War in the USSR" - the answer is "20 million" - "Please list them by name ..."
                        I hope for your conscience, you yourself will be able to supplement the lists of goods produced in the RSFSR sold in Ukraine. Unless, of course, be honest with yourself.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 28 August 2013 18: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: skeptic
                        I hope for your conscience

                        I would not advise.

                        Quote: skeptic
                        You yourself will be able to supplement the lists of goods produced in the RSFSR sold in Ukraine.

                        Maybe I can, but I can’t say that they were sold only in Ukraine, but I did not sell them in the RSFSR.

                        Quote: skeptic
                        For example, spare parts for an IZH motorcycle, clothes (including the Azov sewing factory No. 13, which there was nowhere to buy in Azov), and much more.

                        And you from the Rostov region went to the territory of the Ukrainian SSR for this? But in Rostov it wasn’t?
            2. ultra
              ultra 28 August 2013 23: 33
              +1
              Quote: Kars
              At what price did Ukraine receive gas

              For quite some time, the price of gas for consumers in Ukraine was lower than ours!
            3. ultra
              ultra 28 August 2013 23: 43
              0
              Quote: Kars
              At what price did Ukraine receive gas

              For a long time, the price of gas for consumers in Ukraine was lower than ours! In fact, Russia subsidized the Ukrainian economy.
              1. Kars
                Kars 29 August 2013 09: 52
                +1
                Quote: ultra
                For a long time, the price of gas for consumers in Ukraine was lower than ours! In fact, Russia subsidized the Ukrainian economy.

                In general, this is not true. But if the price was higher for you, then these are questions for Gazprom. But you were asked about foreign markets, your internal pricing policy is your own business.
                Quote: ultra
                ! In fact, Russia subsidized the Ukrainian economy.

                Wow, but can it be that Ukraine transited your energy resources almost free of charge, at that moment when you didn’t think about the construction of bypasses for financial reasons?
            4. postman
              postman 29 August 2013 02: 38
              -2
              Quote: Kars
              But really how much?

              YOU DO NOT RAIN RESPONSE
              And if you don’t know, for 2013
              In June, Ukrainian suppliers bought 654 million cubic meters of gas in Russia for $ 276 million, and in Europe - 272 million cubic meters for $ 108 million. The average cost was respectively $ 421,7 and $ 397,7 per thousand cubic meters.
              Today, gas supplies to Ukraine are handled by Rinat Akhmetov's energy holding DTEK (from Hungary), Sergey Kurchenko's company VETEK (from Hungary), Dmitry Firtash's Ostchem company (from Russia), as well as the state-owned NJSC Naftogaz of Ukraine (from Germany via Poland and RF).

              The cheapest gas is received by Naftogaz from the German RWE.
              Gas from Europe for the year will be 10% of total imports

              In June 2013, Ukraine imported gas from Hungary at a price of $ 406,5 / 1000 m3, which is 4,6% more than the price of gas that came from Germany and 3,6% less than the price of Russian gas.

              This is evidenced by the data of the State Statistics Service of Ukraine.

              The volume of gas imports from Hungary in June 2013 amounted to 137,83 million m3 for a total of $ 56,022 million, from Germany - 134,059 million m3 to $ 52,097 million, and from Russia - 653,743 million m3 to a total of $ 275,684 million.

              In total, according to the results of the first half of 1, 2013 million m155,865 of natural gas for a total of 3 million US dollars were transferred from Hungary to Ukraine, from Germany 63,126 million m504,787 for 3 million US dollars, and from Russia 196,339 billion 9 million m668,365 in the amount 3 billion 4 million US dollars.
              The cost of gas from Germany in June 2013 amounted to 388,6 US dollars / 1000 m3, from Russia - 421,7 US dollars / 1000 m3
              .
              Quote: Kars
              maybe Russia used in the Ukrainian market what are not the preferences?

              Yes, like Ukraine in the Russian market (well, or Uzbekistan, etc.)
              if there is a certificate ST-1. payment ONLY VAT (local)

              Agreement of the Governments of the member states of the CIS countries of 20.11.09 "On the Rules for Determining the Country of Origin of Goods in the Commonwealth of Independent States" (as amended on 28.09.2012)


              ===============
              what else can you help?

              PS ... by the way what are you not happy with? I h / w 1,5 years I will pay for gas (and fuel) in the Leningrad region AS MANY as the Germans in NRW.
              And more for electricity (Finns pay as much as we do)
              1. Kars
                Kars 29 August 2013 09: 47
                +2
                Quote: Postman
                what else can you help?

                You already helped.
                But in fact, it is useless. People (not everyone of course) like to think about something high, and even higher to sympathize.
        2. edge
          edge 28 August 2013 10: 43
          +8
          Quote: Jake Danzels
          In more detail, please, it’s painfully interesting how you paid for the independence of Ukraine?

          and you remember my friend, preferential taxation, privileges on export-import operations, preferential lending, etc. etc., look the truth in the eye directly, and not squint
        3. Estray_
          Estray_ 28 August 2013 20: 23
          +1
          and forget about fifty?
          1. Kars
            Kars 28 August 2013 20: 45
            +2
            Quote: Estray_
            and forget about fifty?

            And Germany on 68 taking into account transit?
            1. nelson
              nelson 29 August 2013 00: 57
              -2
              To look into someone else's mouth, it is in the nature of "self-appointed"
      3. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 28 August 2013 12: 10
        +4
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        No need to promise. So far, only the Yanukovych’s government is a cut piece.

        Yes, exactly like the Yushchenko-Tymoshenko government, like the government of Kravchuk, exactly like any other government that will be allowed to come to power in the dying Ukraine in the future (who is allowed? I think the majority will understand and this is by no means Russia - an explanation strictly for highly educated and highly intellectual chauvinists, citizens of a pseudo-state entity bearing a proud name Hohland)
        In short, to sum up - "Fenito la komedia".
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 28 August 2013 23: 55
          0
          velikoros-88 SU Today, 12:10
          Good evening, dear "borey"!

          You are absolutely right, alas, the curtain will soon fall ... good

          On my own behalf, I’ll add that we are ALL ordinary Ukrainian and Russian citizens, we continue to swear stupidly and buzz with each other!
          And WE ALL from the post-USSR, just need to KEEP TOGETHER!

          In addition, to summarize, in Ukraine for 3 pre-term (Kuchma_x2, Yanukovych_x1), there were their loud campaign promises of MORE close cooperation with Russia !?
          From which for some reason came "FULL ZHIK"!

          In my humble opinion, various "trade and other enlightening" steps of the CU in relation to Ukraine, this is just another "theater for the naive and gullible", since Ukraine COULD be a member of the CU FOR A LONG time!

          And the fact that this did not happen, I explain not by the "stubbornness" of the Kiev-political elite, but by the old "undercover" agreements between the Kremlin and SovDep.

          Dear forum users, please try to question my implausible suspicion?

          Thanks in advance, Mikhailo!
    2. hommer
      hommer 28 August 2013 09: 30
      17
      Quote: domokl
      .If now we do not take measures to protect our loved ones, then we will substitute both Belarusians and Kazakhs. TS is still a union, a union of equal rights.


      Absolutely right! Why should Kazakh metallurgical production compete on equal terms with Ukrainian ones if Ukraine is not in the TS ?!
      That cast a shadow on the fence, choose an economic association with Europe, your right, well done! Good luck and successful trading in the European market!
      But then be prepared that on the territory of the CU your products will be considered on a par with European ones.
      There will be no benefits and preferences!
      Nothing personal just business.
      1. edge
        edge 28 August 2013 10: 47
        +7
        Quote: hommer
        Absolutely right! With what fright Kazakh metallurgical production should compete on equal terms with Ukrainian

        well done guys, you release the market, we’ll not let it go back, you’ll bother ....
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 28 August 2013 21: 33
        -1
        Quote: hommer
        Why should Kazakh metallurgical production compete on equal terms with Ukrainian ones if Ukraine is not in the TS ?!

        Yes, just the end consumer will pay more for the domestic manufacturer will get rid of competition. And the most interesting is that the difference will go into the pocket of the owner of the enterprise
      3. postman
        postman 29 August 2013 03: 07
        -1
        Quote: hommer
        Why should Kazakh metallurgical production compete on equal terms with Ukrainian ones if Ukraine is not in the TS ?!

        WITH SUCH:

        agreement of April 15, 1994 on the creation of a free trade zone of the CIS countries
        expired with the entry into force of the Free Trade Area Agreement of 18.10.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX. CIS countries


        The agreement entered into force for states (as of May 22, 2012):
        Kazakhstan, Moldova and Uzbekistan - since December 30, 1994;
        Kyrgyzstan - since December 28, 1995;
        Azerbaijan - since December 18, 1996;
        Tajikistan - from May 7, 1997;
        Belarus - since November 24, 1999;
        Ukraine - since December 15, 1999;
        Armenia - from January 22, 2000;
        Georgia - since January 21, 2003.
        Georgia continues to participate in the Agreement on the basis of the Decision of the Council of Heads of State of the CIS of 09.10.2009.

        note: Kazakhs do not compete on equal terms anyway: the cost price in Kazakhstan is cheaper (wages, raw materials, electricity), but for the Far East, North, "homeUkraine is not a competitor to Kazakhstan

        Quote: hommer
        TC your products will be considered on a par with European.

        you rave. right here: "with what fright?" did you denounce the above contract?
    3. seller trucks
      28 August 2013 09: 35
      15
      Quote: domokl
      Ukraine cut a chunk and stopping the process is now no longer possible.


      not at all, I completely agree that the Russian Federation lost this round outright, 99,9% that the association between Ukraine and the EU will be signed, but this is not the end of the "battle". IMHO Ukrainians have to step on a rake as usual to understand xy from xy, and besides, promise does not mean getting married, full-fledged membership is out of the question, Ukraine will be incomplete.

      Well, to cheer up, Brodsky, from the unpublished:

      ON THE INDEPENDENCE OF UKRAINE

      Dear Charles XII, the battle of Poltava,
      Thank God, lost. As said burr,
      “Time will show Kuzkin’s mother”, ruins,
      bones of posthumous joy with a taste of Ukraine.
      That is not green-quit, spent by isotope, -
      the yellow-black blasting over Konotop,
      tailored from the canvas, Canada has in store.
      For free, that without a cross, but am not necessary.
      Goy you, a rushnyk, karbovanets, seeds in full shit!
      Not to us, I am a Nazi muzzle, am, accuse them of treason.
      Sami under the images of seventy years in Ryazan
      with drenched eyes lived as under Tarzana.
      Let’s tell them, the loud mother paused pause strictly:
      good riddance to you, xoxly, and a road hammer!
      Come from us in zhupan, without saying - in a uniform,
      at the address in three letters, in all four
      side. Now let the hans in the hut in chorus
      with lyakhami put you on four bones, heathens.
      How to get into the loop - so together, choosing the path in more often,
      and to bite chicken from borsch alone is sweeter.
      Farewell, lived together - that's enough!
      Spit, perhaps, in Dnipro, maybe he will roll back,
      disdaining proudly us, as fast, jam-packed
      leather corners and age-old resentment.
      Do not remember dashingly. Your bread sky
      to us, you choke on a cake and a kolob, not demanding.
      There is nothing to spoil the blood, to tear clothes on the chest.
      Ended, to know, love, since there was a midway.
      What to poke around in vain in ragged roots with a verb?
      You have given birth to earth, soil, chernozem with a podzol.
      Fully swing right, sew us one thing, another.
      This land does not give you, kavuns, peace.
      Oh yes Levada-steppe, stealing, a chestnut, a dumpling!
      Go ahead, lose more - more people than money.
      Somehow interrupt. And as for the tears from the eye -
      there is no decree on her, wait until another time.
      With God, eagles, Cossacks, hetmans, warriors!
      Only when it comes to you to die, boogies,
      you will wheeze, scratching the edge of the mattress,
      lines from Alexander, and not nonsense of Taras.
      1. edge
        edge 28 August 2013 09: 47
        +4
        Quote: seller trucks
        Ukraine cut a chunk and stopping the process is now no longer possible.

        again, in the pan of the hetman, Ukraine is in the village of .... they’ll throw me, only Schaub loot does not lose exported for the cordon.
      2. Papakiko
        Papakiko 28 August 2013 10: 03
        +2
        Quote: seller trucks
        full-fledged membership is out of the question; Ukraine will be underreported.

        If you look at these words from the perpendicular side, then the general meaning and direction of movement "square" are crystal-clear and understandable. Gayrope is not lacking in them. They have a different crisis and they will, in a sophisticated rejection, "force" the neighboring one. wink wassat
      3. Naval
        Naval 28 August 2013 16: 37
        +1
        ++++ Lovely poems !!
    4. Egor
      Egor 28 August 2013 11: 35
      +3
      Quote: domokl
      Quote: Civil
      If it was not possible to buy, then in Ukraine a healthy elite is obtained, which means they have nothing to do in the TS.

      The third paragraph you crossed out the first two. If now we do not take measures to protect our loved ones, then we will substitute both Belarusians and Kazakhs. TS is still a union, a union of equal rights.
      Ukraine has cut the chunk and stopping the process is no longer possible. It is necessary to close the borders, to enter exactly the same relations as with other WTO countries. And it is too late to regret.

      And what Belarusians and Kazakhs do not know how to solve? It is necessary that Russia would tell them what is bad and what is good and take care of them so as not to inadvertently substitute - or what? Let them decide what is bad and what is good, and Belarus and Kazakhstan, and the same Ukraine. You will not be forcibly sweet! Make a mistake - let it be! The one who does not do anything is not mistaken. Time itself will put everything in its place.
      1. skeptic
        skeptic 28 August 2013 18: 24
        +2
        Quote: Egor
        And what Belarusians and Kazakhs do not know how to solve?


        These are the independents. We have a UNION, and all problems are solved together. It’s you there, at your place, share and separate, and resolve all issues separately. (Western Ukraine, non-Western, etc.)
  2. avt
    avt 28 August 2013 08: 56
    10
    Quote: Civil
    2. It is necessary as the USA to stupidly buy the top of the country and, accordingly, they will sign the entry into the CU.

    laughing laughing laughing Well, damn it, you give !!! And whose money did Yulia Grigyan / Tymoshenko rise !? I give a hint - the Gas Princess drove. Or do you think she supplied gas to Russia? Well, when they were given a green light for sugar and pipes, and Kuchma wrote books about Ukraine, not Russia?
  3. Airman
    Airman 28 August 2013 09: 53
    11
    It is a pity that due to the short-sightedness of politicians there is a further alienation of the two fraternal peoples, economic and human ties are breaking. Following the entry of Ukraine into the EU, the borders will be closed, and we will travel to Ukraine with visas, which will also negatively affect the trips of our citizens to Crimea.
    1. seller trucks
      28 August 2013 12: 25
      +3
      Quote: Povshnik
      due to the short-sightedness of politicians, there is a further alienation of the two fraternal peoples, economic and human ties are torn.


      stop YOU, a wall was erected between the GDR and the FRG, which existed for 28 years and nothing was united, in this case everything will be much simpler, let the Ukrainians "play" the Europeans.
      1. Akhtuba73
        Akhtuba73 28 August 2013 13: 33
        +9
        Quote: seller trucks
        let the Ukrainians "play" the Europeans.

        As the saying goes, "for one beaten - two unbeaten give." Drag Ukraine to the Customs Union now, they will whine all their lives and bargain for gingerbread, like in the EU, it would probably be better ... at the door of the vehicle. Russia has passed this way, lured us out of the Union of all, promised sneakers ... now you can't force them to eat!
      2. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 18: 15
        +2
        Quote: seller trucks
        Quote: Povshnik
        due to the short-sightedness of politicians, there is a further alienation of the two fraternal peoples, economic and human ties are torn.


        stop YOU, a wall was erected between the GDR and the FRG, which existed for 28 years and nothing was united, in this case everything will be much simpler, let the Ukrainians "play" the Europeans.

        Invalid comparison. The Germans were divided by force, and Ukraine does it voluntarily, with the tacit consent of the people. When the Orange Revolution, funded by the USA and Europe, the people lived on the street. And then there was silence. A flag in hand.
    2. ksan
      ksan 28 August 2013 23: 13
      +2
      Pvoshnik (2) RU Today, 09:53 ↑

      It is a pity that due to the short-sightedness of politicians there is a further alienation of the two fraternal peoples, economic and human ties are breaking. Following the entry of Ukraine into the EU, the borders will be closed, and we will travel to Ukraine with visas, which will also negatively affect the trips of our citizens to Crimea.
      It seems to me (I want to believe) that even joining the FTA with the EU, the friendship of peoples will not end. And after the elections in 2015, it will be possible to ask for the CU
  • Vasya Ivanov
    Vasya Ivanov 28 August 2013 07: 34
    21
    I would like to wish Ukraine its Putin, and not those clowns who sell their country for the Jews.
    1. artem772
      artem772 28 August 2013 11: 28
      -12 qualifying.
      To sell only for dollars? wink
    2. Natalia
      Natalia 28 August 2013 11: 41
      +6
      Excerpt from the election program of V.F.Yanukovich
      FOREIGN POLICY: OPENNESS AND NEIGHBORHOOD:
      7.1. I consider the main task of national foreign policy to maintain the non-aligned status of Ukraine.
      7.2. I will restore friendly and mutually beneficial relations with the Russian Federation and the CIS countries.

      As a matter of fact:
      under clause 7.1. Yanukovych has already flown for an association agreement with the EU is the first step towards a bloc component, with which he promised in his election program, and this is already clause 7.2. where Yanukovych flies just whistling. The absolute contradiction of their election promises. Thus, Viktor Fedorovich deceives a large part of the country and his entire electorate.
    3. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 18: 17
      0
      Quote: Vasya Ivanov
      I would like to wish Ukraine its Putin, and not those clowns who sell their country for the Jews.

      With Serdyukov? Or with gas?
    4. xan
      xan 28 August 2013 23: 46
      +2
      Quote: Vasya Ivanov
      I would like to wish Ukraine its Putin, and not those clowns who sell their country for the Jews.

      Putin will not help, Ukraine’s power is not the same.
      To raise Ukraine without Russia, Ukrainians need to follow the path of South Korea and Japan, but they will not like it - it looks like a prison and a scoop, closing borders, banning imports, etc. So let them look at Bulgaria, Romania, etc. - this is their future. And Russia will grow rich, because it sets the right tasks, and understands that no one will do anything except us, and of course the periodic table will help. In ten years, the envy of a simple Ukrainian to a simple Russian will already be visible to the naked eye, but in principle, now it’s already visible
  • Su24
    Su24 28 August 2013 14: 51
    +5
    Or here is the comment of the deputy from UDAR Oksana Sold to the Interfax-Ukraine agency: “Of course, this is an obvious step to prevent Ukraine from joining the European Association and signing the Association Agreement.” Interesting too. And how can the actions of Russian customs “prevent” Ukraine from signing an association agreement with the EU?


    I would like to ask more: what did they want? Are we going to clap their hands? Of course, this is pressure, because not only Ukraine is sovereign, Russia too, it has its own interests. We and the CU are not profitable for Ukraine to leave, so we will push and push. Such childish resentment, I wonder. This is international politics, gentlemen, you wanted it, so get it.
    1. Shkodnick
      Shkodnick 28 August 2013 17: 03
      +1


      ****************************************
  • starshina78
    starshina78 28 August 2013 22: 13
    +1
    No matter how smart the people are, they will not convince the ruling elite, which so wants to go to Europe that "it hurts its teeth!" I can say one thing: our plant worked quite closely with Ukraine, and now that's it. Over the last quarter, only one car went to Ukraine with equipment. For that, products began to be sent to Belarus and Kazakhstan more often. It is a pity that ordinary people will suffer because of the ambitions of the leadership. As they say there - then: "Pans swear, but the forelocks of slaves crack!" So according to him.
  • serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 28 August 2013 07: 07
    22
    The position of Russia is absolutely correct from all sides. Ukraine can be "open" only in one direction.
    In general, the situation: Ukraine is likely to join the EU. And he will repeat the fate of the Baltic states in terms of their own production. Including agricultural. I don’t know how it is now, but in 2005 Lithuanian farmers were paid extra so that they would not sow anything.
    1. Grenz
      Grenz 28 August 2013 07: 28
      +8
      serge-68-68
      Ukraine can be "open" only in one direction.

      The fact of the matter is that Ukrainian politicians, like that ..., want to have in all directions and receive pennies from this.
      And what about the village? So there has long been nothing dumb and nothing to sow.
      So they hope for the EU, maybe something will break off and some funds will be donated so that the village does not finally bend.
      We are already for the simple "We are with Russia forever!" we no longer pay, we understood the truth of their statements, we transfer everything to a sober calculation. That's a bummer. I wanted to continue fooling our brains - but now everything is fair. You imagine we yourself. And the peoples will still be friends and the time will come everything will be fine. Not soon, but it will be!
      1. alexng
        alexng 28 August 2013 08: 12
        +8
        But I wonder how Ukraine will behave when the Geyrosoyuz crashes?
        1. Luna
          Luna 28 August 2013 08: 59
          14
          At the very first shecher, she will begin to cross at the door of the vehicle and sing pityingly about brotherhood and common roots. lol
          1. Grenz
            Grenz 28 August 2013 19: 19
            +1
            You are smart! With such a familiar emblem. And a countrywoman. You optimism and perseverance!
        2. Semen Semyonitch
          Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 18: 25
          +1
          Quote: alexneg
          But I wonder how Ukraine will behave when the Geyrosoyuz crashes?

          By then, it will be the center of a universe with a thriving economy and GDP like three Chinese.
          1. ksan
            ksan 28 August 2013 23: 07
            +2
            Semen Semenych SU Today, 18:25 ↑

            Quote: alexneg
            But I wonder how Ukraine will behave when the Geyrosoyuz crashes?

            By then, it will be the center of a universe with a thriving economy and GDP like three Chinese.
            Yeah, and external debt like two American
        3. postman
          postman 29 August 2013 03: 21
          +1
          Quote: alexneg
          Geyrosoyuz

          and where is such a country?
          if you are talking about the EEC (European Union), still keep in mind that the topwar site "broadcasts" from the territory of Germany.

          In the Criminal Code of the Federal Republic of Germany - Strafgesetzbuch (STGB), liability for insult and defamation is provided for in fourteen paragraphs of the fourteenth section, which is called "Insult and defamation". Your statements fall under:
          185 Insult
          186 Defamation
          187 Intentional Defamation
          187a Defamation of a Politician
          185 STGB "Insult" reads: "Insult is punishable by up to one year's imprisonment or a fine. If the insult is expressed in the form of an action, it is punishable by up to two years in prison."
          An insult is an unlawful encroachment on the honor of another person by intentionally expressing (expressing) disrespect.
          As can be seen from the disposition of the article, insulting an action is punished by a harsh one.
          ╖186 STGB “Libel” reads: └Anyone who claims or disseminates information against another person that defame this person or may humiliate his dignity in the eyes of the public, if this information is not proven, is punished with imprisonment for up to one year or a monetary fine, and if the act was committed publicly or by distributing written materials (╖ 11, paragraph 3), then it is punishable by imprisonment for up to two years or a monetary fine. "/ well, and so on, everything will not fit

          I’ll generally keep silent about Article 3 of the Federal Law of Germany (does the Federal Constitution Protection Service of Germany-Bundesamt fuer Verfassungsschutz do this? This is complete: total control of the Internet, SMS, e-mail))
          NO, of course, it is unlikely that you will be extradited by the Federal Republic of Germany, for justice ...
          BUT VISAS TO SCHENGEN (and the EEC, who is still not in Schengen) to deprive- FOR SIMPLY
          are not afraid vacation then only in Egypt and Turkey ...
          =====================================
          note, that there would be a misunderstanding, I myself do not digest blue
          1. Grenz
            Grenz 29 August 2013 11: 50
            +1
            Postman 2

            By the way, this is not bad from where Topwar broadcasts. Let them know what we think of them. What about a visa? My father didn’t have time to ask her when he entered Berlin with the tankmen. Do not. If anything, we will enter the EU with our laws, not blue, but harsh.
            1. postman
              postman 31 August 2013 01: 45
              +1
              Quote: grenz
              By the way, this is not bad from where Topwar broadcasts. Let them know what we think of them.

              Do you think they are not in the know? (BND has nothing to do now)
              About "not bad". I honestly don't give a fuck ...
              Only
              1. from where it broadcasts, those laws and act
              2.Although it has nothing to do with the topic, but what about "support of a domestic manufacturer"? / In Germany, of course, it is cheaper with broadcasting (well, like "Free Chechnya" - it's easier / And patriotism? (Well, when you pay out of your pocket, and not forcing someone else)
              Quote: grenz
              What about a visa? My father didn’t have time to ask her when he entered Berlin with the tankmen.

              Well ? they didn’t ask me at any grandfather (or rather they didn’t present it) when they entered Prague, Vienna, Berlin and the territory of Norway, and before that Finland.
              But that is war, and another thing is "maneuvers"
    2. domokl
      domokl 28 August 2013 08: 45
      11
      Quote: serge-68-68
      will repeat the fate of the Baltic states

      Not sure. You forget that the Baltic states are monolithic enough. Despite the presence of Russians. Ukraine is on the verge of an internal explosion. West and East hate each other. If you add to this the collapse of the economy, you know where it goes.
      1. serge-68-68
        serge-68-68 28 August 2013 08: 53
        +1
        This is also possible. We will see.
    3. Luna
      Luna 28 August 2013 08: 56
      +9
      Ukraine will never join the EU. Where Ukraine is about to enter, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, etc. are already present. wink

      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0
      %B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE%D0%B1_%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0
      %B8_%D1%81_%D0%95%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BC_%D
      1%81%D0%BE%D1%8E%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%BC
      1. seller trucks
        28 August 2013 10: 22
        +3
        Quote: Luna
        Ukraine will never join the EU.


        (+) the way it is, but you understand that it is necessary to be promoted before the elections, to see the regional committee promised Yanyk one more term, if this does not happen, the term, but only in another place, will be provided to him, like to many of his " commands ".
        1. Luna
          Luna 28 August 2013 11: 30
          +2
          Yes, God is with them, and with Yanyk and with the regional committee - for the most part, people don’t know a damn where they are entering, under what conditions and why .... it is said that this is enough in the EU. And in Europe, as you know, it’s good, there is no corruption, there are fair courts and good police. laughing
          1. seller trucks
            28 August 2013 12: 08
            +1
            Quote: Luna
            Yes, God is with them, and with Yanyk and with the regional committee - for the most part, people don’t know a damn where they are entering


            Well, fuck, dough, how many media campaigns they dumped, the final thing infuriated me, the inaction of the Russian Federation infuriated Ukraine, well, let it be like this:
            1. Luna
              Luna 28 August 2013 14: 44
              +3
              The best for Russia will be the departure of Ukraine, they have eaten their own, now they are looking around. And they expect a lot and immediately. If they had come to the TS, then in time they would have started whining even in the east and counting how much and what they had missed, following the lead of Russia. Let them go to the EU. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS NO PREFERENCES, BENEFITS AND PR., now they must demand this from the EU. Already now in some places articles are appearing on U. that it is not worth waiting for the manna of heaven today, it will be - but in 5 years.
              In the meantime, today, after sending Azarov in Moscow on Monday on a pedestrian erotic journey, he again said "Ukraine can join to individual agreements that operate within the framework of the Customs Union. I instruct the representative of Ukraine to the EEC, Viktor Suslov, to propose an action plan in this direction. I instruct the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Prime Minister Yuriy Boyko to develop an algorithm for interaction with the Customs Union under the terms of the association agreement "

              Azarov is well aware that trading on common grounds, Ukraine will quickly stretch its legs. Now in this matter it all depends on Russia. Brotherly snot starts to chew, so Ukraine will live like that - obey Brussels, feeding at the expense of Russia.
              1. seller trucks
                28 August 2013 15: 07
                +2
                Quote: Luna
                The best for Russia will be the departure of Ukraine, they have eaten their own, now they are looking around.


                NO, if Ukraine joins the CU, this will be Putin’s main victory for the entire present and future term of his presidency, unfortunately, these are my dreams, therefore, let them fall.

                Quote: Luna
                Let them go to the EU. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS NO PREFERENCES, BENEFITS AND PR.


                that's right, it's their decision


                Quote: Luna
                "Ukraine can join separate agreements that operate within the framework of the Customs Union. I instruct the representative of Ukraine at the EEC Viktor Suslov


                Lord, how did this multi-vector get, all the pipes, it no longer rolls
                1. zmey_gadukin
                  zmey_gadukin 28 August 2013 16: 16
                  -3
                  Quote: seller trucks
                  Lord, how did this multi-vector get, all the pipes, it no longer rolls

                  So let's turn all the taps on, how much you can whine "how Ukraine got you" and "how it feeds from you."
                  Just remember my words - nothing but pure populism will fail. Poorut, arrange shows at customs and all. As they drove rolls to Tyazhmash in Russia, they are driving them. And they spat on scandals - for profitable.
                  So I wonder when the borders will finally be blocked?
                  1. seller trucks
                    28 August 2013 16: 52
                    +2
                    Quote: zmey_gadukin
                    As they drove rolls to Tyazhmash in Russia, they are driving them. And they spat on scandals - for profitable.


                    it is possible, I will not even argue, but the fact is that in this case, Russia is dancing Ukraine, and not vice versa, i.e. there are only two ways out: either into the pipe, or will it work or not?
                    1. zmey_gadukin
                      zmey_gadukin 28 August 2013 18: 20
                      +3
                      So I’m wondering if the Ukrainian producers will block the oxygen, how will they turn around?
                      1. LINX
                        LINX 29 August 2013 03: 30
                        -2
                        From where such confidence that Ukraine lives only with supplies to the Russian Federation. To date, the Russian Federation accounts for only 23-24% of Ukrainian exports, for the same EU and even more. More than a third of exports go to the countries of Asia and Africa and their share is constantly growing.

                        Still need to consider such points:

                        - most of the export to the Russian Federation is the return of processed raw materials from the Russian Federation itself (carbohydrates - chemistry, components - mechanical engineering, etc.), i.e. limiting Ukrainian imports will be equivalent for Russia to limiting its exports (Ukraine has already reduced the consumption of purchased lard gas by 20 already, the shortage of gas tanks several times exceeds all exports from Ukraine)

                        - Some Ukrainian products in Russia are not able to refuse and replace with their production. (e.g. Turboatom products);

                        All these sweets, cheeses ... there is more screech than wool.

                        The main export products of Ukraine for the Russian Federation are pipes, chemistry, engineering and only then

                        And what we have on the way out - the restriction of Ukrainian imports to the Russian Federation for Ukraine will not have such catastrophic consequences as many people are urging here (the maximum loss is up to 15-20% of exports, and automatically with a significant reduction in imports), and this will Russia hit first and foremost with its enterprises having relations with Ukrainian partners.

                        PS
                        I sincerely thank the Russian Federation for all these gas wars, finally we really started moving about energy saving, from a citizen to production, they put new boilers, energy-saving materials, they began to heat less air, I see solar panels even in villages, coal miners started selling normally. With all my heart - thanks.
                        I hope to thank you after these swings)))))
                      2. Allegedly
                        Allegedly 29 August 2013 04: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: LINX
                        Sincerely thanks to the Russian Federation for all these


                        As I expected, the Russian Federation will not have the courage to prevent words from disagreeing with the deed, and so it happened. I sincerely want Ukraine to go where it really wants to go. Highly! The first two or three years, there may even be a feeling of euphoria, and then it will be f * ck that no one now even represents all its depth. In Bulgaria, electricity bills are 2 times the pension. Do you think Ukraine will have fewer of these accounts? I can still understand the thieving and cunning zapadentsev, 80% have their own economy there, they will heat themselves with firewood for the winter, and they themselves will go to hack on the Poles, Czechs. Yes, yes, no further, for the Poles themselves go on to work around laughing . But for real Ukraine, why are these funny? AND FOR WHAT?
                      3. LINX
                        LINX 29 August 2013 05: 22
                        -2
                        Well, tell me please, that it will flood into Ukraine at incredibly cheap prices from Europe, which will cover the entire production of Ukraine with a basin?

                        Food ? - ours are cheaper (eggs, chicken, cereals, butter and so on in the EU)
                        Equipment ? - it is all from China, regardless of brand, the European will be cheaper, I will only be glad
                        Light industry - similarly to China or Turkey, what our produce will be all the same with European out of competition
                        Chemistry is the same
                        Cars - horseradish they will be cheaper, everything will remain so.

                        As an option, energy carriers will be removed - we have been selling electric energy to the EU for as long as they are ready to buy, this does not affect domestic prices.

                        Coal - there is nowhere to put it in Europe, mines are closed, but bringing it to us is also not an option, more expensive than local and Russian.

                        Gasoline at them can become more expensive and at home - we import normal gasoline from the Baltic countries and it is sold at our price (about 10 UAH), why should it cost more?

                        Tell me what ???

                        maybe the Bulgarians sharply wanted s / n and pensions like in Europe, but at the same time not working at all - so these are their problems, they will not allow us such happiness.
                      4. Allegedly
                        Allegedly 29 August 2013 11: 35
                        +2
                        Do you know that in the Baltics all goods (WITHOUT EXCLUSION !!!) are more expensive than in Germany? Do you or just mow under it? It is unclear who will buy a mine with coal, who through dummies and imported coal will be cheaper. It will be cheaper until the last coal mining equipment is dismantled for scrap, and then your children will sell themselves to pay for heating or electricity. Coal is just an example, it will be with all products or goods.
                      5. Allegedly
                        Allegedly 29 August 2013 11: 57
                        0
                        Quote: LINX
                        Food ? - ours are cheaper (eggs, chicken, cereals, butter and so on in the EU)



                        Quote: LINX
                        Light industry - similarly to China or Turkey, what our produce will be all the same with European out of competition


                        Everything will then be more expensive. For example, in Bulgaria, not their own tomatoes are sold, but Spanish, paprika is also not its own, but Dutch (or somewhere nearby). Its agriculture is destroyed and scrapped. Bravo! A curtain...
          2. ksan
            ksan 28 August 2013 23: 26
            0
            seller trucks (1) RU Today, 15:07 ↑

            Quote: Luna
            The best for Russia will be the departure of Ukraine, they have eaten their own, now they are looking around.


            NO, if Ukraine joins the CU, this will be Putin’s main victory for the entire present and future term of his presidency, unfortunately, these are my dreams, therefore, let them fall.
            Lina, too, by her own right: Join Ukraine now in the Customs Union with nothing to compare. And the howl will be about the "Kremlin's dictatorship" and the loss of "a chance for Euro-integration." in 2015 will be asked to join the TS. something like that winked
  • smel
    smel 28 August 2013 07: 07
    16
    It’s all sad, but not happy. We can live without each other. But first of all, people will suffer from this division. Those who work, those who are not rich, those whose relatives are already behind the economic hill. And countries will not gain much from separation.
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 28 August 2013 07: 13
      +7
      Apparently Ukraine will have to learn from its mistakes!
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 28 August 2013 09: 02
        16
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Apparently Ukraine will have to learn from its mistakes!

        Rather, she hopes for EU "help", and it is not far off ..
      2. domokl
        domokl 28 August 2013 09: 15
        +3
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Apparently Ukraine will have to learn from its mistakes!

        It’s good if you study. I think the matter will be much more serious. As if you did not have to order a wreath in the Ritual ...
    2. domokl
      domokl 28 August 2013 08: 49
      +5
      Quote: smel
      in the first place, people will suffer from this division. Those who work, those who are not rich, those whose relatives are already behind the economic hill.

      You can’t argue, but it was precisely these people who elected such a president, such deputies, which means they wanted this.
      Purely humanly sorry for the country, sorry for people, sorry for our centuries-old alliance. But ... you will not be forcibly sweet. We must learn how to relate to a new reality.
      1. ale-x
        ale-x 28 August 2013 09: 24
        -1
        Is there democracy in Ukraine or not? Who is the government doing? The president? Where did he come from - did the people choose? Themselves are to blame ... This is embarrassing ... The Russian leadership is showing unusual harshness with the fraternal people (understandably - tired of playing "I believe or don’t believe"), but show the same adherence to principles in relation to third countries, so that the USSR and the Russian Federation must be huge lards of green money ...
        1. domokl
          domokl 28 August 2013 09: 31
          +2
          Quote: ale-x
          . The Russian leadership is unusually tough

          This is not cruelty. Alas, the pockets are no longer just different, the pockets with signing the contract will be sewn to different jackets. And Russia is now doing what it should.
          And about other countries, I’m not sure that after signing the agreement Ukraine will be able to pay off all loans from Russia. And you will have to write them off just like some kind of Cape Verde ...
          1. ksan
            ksan 28 August 2013 23: 33
            +1
            And about other countries, I’m not sure that after signing the agreement Ukraine will be able to pay off all loans from Russia. And you will have to write them off just like some kind of Cape Verde ...
            Alexander is a bad practice to "forgive" debts. You need to demand something for debts. For example: a base in Sevastopol for 100 years. Well, or something else, if there is anything left by that time wink
        2. Tersky
          Tersky 28 August 2013 09: 51
          +4
          Quote: ale-x
          This is confusing .. The Russian leadership is unusually tough with the fraternal people

          The people are fraternal, but the gadish government. The article is just about the fact that there is no bias and rigidity, this is a game by the rules, let it get used to the fact that you have to pay for everything, the freebie times end.
      2. maxvet
        maxvet 28 August 2013 09: 25
        +2
        Quote: domokl
        But it is precisely these people who elected such a president, such deputies.

        And there’s no one else to choose from there
      3. smel
        smel 29 August 2013 06: 39
        0
        You can’t argue. But it is precisely these people who elected such a president, such deputies.
        Stop, dear, about the elections !!! We also chose a lot of people. But not one has justified the confidence of voters. Who is more, who are less likely to have electors and their promises
    3. michajlo
      michajlo 29 August 2013 00: 12
      +2
      smel SU Today, 07:07 AM
      Good evening, dear Paul!
      You are completely RIGHT. Neither joy nor gloating is out of place. But probably all this is necessary, so that ALL ordinary citizens of my native Ukraine understood that trusting and quietly wandering along the "Ukrainian way to Paradise" under the promises of the Kiev GODS, they will soon find themselves on the "Caucasian path", which will end in bloodshed and SECTION of Ukraine to pieces !!!

      Because Ukraine's accession to Russia / CU does not bode well for the "Kiev-political-plankton".

      And there may be "surprises" and stronger ...
  • borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 28 August 2013 07: 08
    11
    From the Don.
    Ukraine that on the forehead, that on the forehead! Forcibly sweet will not!
    1. baskoy
      baskoy 28 August 2013 10: 26
      +3
      Apparently, they live according to the principle: "I'll burn my hut more beautifully, then I burn the toilet at the toilet!"
  • SmacXnumx
    SmacXnumx 28 August 2013 07: 14
    +4
    So far, Ukrainian politicians want to get into the EU at any cost, where they, with their goods and no hell are not needed, suffer and suffers the population. Rather, the Ukrainian authorities would have decided who they are with the liberal Europe or Russia
    1. domokl
      domokl 28 August 2013 08: 53
      +5
      Quote: Smac111
      Rather, the Ukrainian authorities would have decided with whom they

      And what have you not yet seen with whom the Ukrainian authorities? It's strange. Nobody hides that the agreement will be signed by anyone. And that means the gap between our countries will also be by anyone.
      And about the people .. Have you seen the demonstrations and rallies on the streets of Ukrainian cities against this agreement? It's a normal life, which means people want it
  • a52333
    a52333 28 August 2013 07: 20
    10
    Well, well, with two husbands at the same time only in Europe is possible, we do not. Let them choose.
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 28 August 2013 07: 27
    22
    Quote: a52333
    Let them choose.

    hi And apparently it’s too late to make a choice. I think the situation in Ukraine can be described as follows:
    1. 30143
      30143 28 August 2013 07: 48
      +2
      Great photo. That says it all.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 28 August 2013 07: 37
    +6
    Russia needs to do as much as possible to our advantage.
  • Akim
    Akim 28 August 2013 07: 42
    +3
    I understand that I will express an opinion that the majority of Russians do not like. But I am already waiting for the agreement on the Association to be signed and ratified. To end this informational pressure. Not because I am an ardent supporter of striving for Europe (rather the opposite) - it makes me neither cold nor hot. The reaction of the Kremlin just hurts me. When you say to yourself "Here you are Du ..." - it sounds self-critical, when they say to you: "You are Du ..." - it is insulting. There are supporters, there are opponents, there are neutral parties. You have a negative attitude towards everyone and this causes the body to have a natural state of defense. You do not understand at the beginning of the rights of your loved one or not, but rush to defend him and are unlikely to give up later (if YOU are not Pavlik Morozov). So it is here. You pounced on Ukraine and not on its individual individuals, but the country for many living here is dear and the reaction is only negative.
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 28 August 2013 08: 00
      12
      No one attacked the people, well, except for Lviv, Kars and the like. I wish you success in the EU.
      1. Akim
        Akim 28 August 2013 08: 10
        0
        Quote: Marrying
        I wish you success in the EU.

        The Association Agreement is not an immediate entry. It may be in twenty years, or maybe not during our lifetime (if the EU does not fall apart by then). First of all, it is a free trade zone without a supranational body. There is a similar ZTS between the CIS, but the Kremlin wants a more in-depth one - this is a vehicle, and then even more. The fact that Russia will strengthen after ratification (signed by all EU countries!) Of the treaty is right. But this does not mean kirdyk to all economic ties, as many politicians present.
        1. ivachum
          ivachum 28 August 2013 08: 27
          20
          Quote: Akim
          But this does not mean kirdyk to all economic ties, as many politicians present.


          No ... it is "kirdyk" that means. Ukraine will turn into a large warehouse for pasting product labels from "Made in Europe" to "Made in Ukraine". Do we (Russia) need this? Or do you want us to ruin OUR economy just for the sake of the brotherly "Gay, Slavs"? What your industry will represent after the association - you can see the example of the Baltics. Something is not visible anywhere Latvian cars, Estonian electronics, etc. You won't be able to sit on two chairs at once ...
          1. Akim
            Akim 28 August 2013 08: 53
            -4
            Quote: ivachum
            Something is not visible wherever Latvian cars, Estonian electronics

            All this was in demand only in the USSR. When the free access of goods to the CIS opened, all this withered, unable to withstand competition. In Ukraine, without any associations, all TV factories were bent on their own. And who could rebuild, that works. Personally, I have a two-meter refrigerator Snayge. Very not bad quality. There will be no ala-ulu. You are not always properly presented with information.
            1. Papakiko
              Papakiko 28 August 2013 09: 45
              10
              Quote: Akim
              Personally, I have a two-meter refrigerator Snayge. Very not bad quality.


              In 1963, the production of the first household refrigerators in Lithuania was started at the production base of the Alytus Machine-Building Plant.
              In 2005, AB Snaigė completed negotiations with the largest Russian retail chain of household appliances Eldorado and one of the largest chains in Eastern Ukraine, ABV Technika.
              In 2006, AB Snaigė acquired 100 percent. the capital of the Russian company Liga Service, which is engaged in wholesale and retail trade in Russia.
              In 2011, the Russian company Polair, acting directly through JSC VAIDANA, acquired 59,86% of the company's shares.

              I hope you understand for which markets the Snaigė office is oriented, and at the expense of whom it lives and does not drag out survival in a futile struggle with Asian manufacturers.
              Quote: Akim
              All this was in demand only in the USSR. When the free access of goods to the CIS opened, all this withered, unable to withstand competition.

              crying M-oh-so.
              So everything bent not because of this "unable to withstand the competition" but from the fact that all operating funds of factories and factories were beaten centrally "frozen" and the mechanism was turned on galloping inflation with all the ensuing consequences.
              But you probably on such facts from the bell tower of Ivan the Great? wink
              1. Akim
                Akim 28 August 2013 11: 15
                -3
                Quote: Papakiko
                I hope you understand for which markets the Snaigė office is oriented, and at the expense of whom it lives and does not drag out survival in a futile struggle with Asian manufacturers.

                Who cares? It works, and its markets are different. LAZ also belongs to the Russian company. So what?
                but from the fact that all the operating funds of plants and factories were beaten centrally "frozen"

                I do not agree. RAF simply could not stand the competition and could not resume deliveries to the Russian market
                1. Rosomaha67
                  Rosomaha67 28 August 2013 14: 13
                  +3
                  ..... so they could not resume supplies because they wanted to buy the mikriki, but at the same time so that "on each obscenely about the Russians it was written" .......
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 28 August 2013 14: 36
                    -2
                    Quote: Rosomaha67
                    they wanted to buy the mikriki, but also so that "on each obscenely about the Russians it was written" .......

                    No politics there, pure economy. RAF was going to GAZ nodes, but it was a little expensive to transport round-trip on the final product. In addition, they wanted real money, not barter. And to build it on the nodes of Foltz was still not profitable. Yes, and launch a new model did not have enough money. RAFik befell the fate of Polish and GDRovsky beads. That's all.
            2. mazdie
              mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 15
              +1
              How the Ukrainian differs from the Russian one, and why there cannot be a common state with us, personally I don’t care what it will be called, at least an alliance, Russian flesh, at least, whatever. Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian - we are one people. This is like a Muscovite, St. Petersburg, Yekaterinburg. It belongs to the locality, not to the people. IMHO
        2. Gecko
          Gecko 28 August 2013 08: 54
          +4
          So the EU also wants more, sooner or later you will lose sovereignty. And in my opinion you have already lost if you are ruled by the US State Department. Naive Ukrainian guys, for the sake of some kind of amorphous "candy", actually changed the awl for soap, turning away from their blood brothers. Here you hate the USSR (I am also not happy), but you offend Russia that like she brewed all this,
          but you forget that in the USSR, Ukraine has always been at the forefront, at the head of the USSR were Ukrainians Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Chernenko, Gorbachev - and he is half Ukrainian.
        3. Luna
          Luna 28 August 2013 09: 04
          +2
          Akim
          The Association Agreement is not an immediate entry.

          The agreement comes into force one month after signing, without waiting for ratification, and to the extent that the European Union decides
          http://www.iarex.ru/articles/40446.html

          this does not mean kirdyk to all economic ties, as many politicians present.

          http://chp.com.ua/all-news/item/24490-otrasli-ukrainskoy-ekonomiki-kotoryie-ne-v

          yizhivut-bez-rossiyskogo-ryinka
          1. domokl
            domokl 28 August 2013 09: 19
            +4
            Quote: Luna
            this does not mean kirdyk to all economic ties, as many politicians present.

            Naturally, there will be no end to relations ... We do not live on the moon ... You have distorted a few statements by politicians. This means the end of preferential tariffs and benefits in general. Ukraine simply becomes exactly the same state as, for example, Germany or Great Britain, and, therefore, will pay the exact same rates as the rest.
            And for the Ukrainian economy this is a pretty strong blow.
            1. Akim
              Akim 28 August 2013 09: 30
              0
              Quote: domokl
              which means it will pay the exact same rates as the rest.

              Now is it not? Or in Russia there is no quotas for Ukrainian pipes, wagons, etc.? A little more down to earth. For the export of tomatoes, the same duty is paid that to the West, that to the East.
              1. domokl
                domokl 28 August 2013 09: 35
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                Now is it not?

                Read the article more closely .. There it says. Tariff 4% and 10% is a little different money and, accordingly, different prices on our shelves.
              2. mazdie
                mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 19
                0
                There will be no further quotas; there will be protective duties. And in Europe, your pipes ... are not needed.
              3. ultra
                ultra 29 August 2013 00: 02
                0
                Quote: Akim
                Ukrainian pipes, wagons,

                In the near future, RAO Russian Railways will refuse to purchase wheelsets from the Kremenchug plant due to poor quality.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 29 August 2013 02: 41
                  -1
                  Quote: ultra
                  refuses to purchase wheelsets of the Kremenchug plant due to poor quality.

                  How many times has been said. Year 4 so rulers threaten, no less
            2. xan
              xan 28 August 2013 11: 42
              +1
              Quote: domokl
              Naturally, there will be no end to relations ... We do not live on the moon ... You have distorted a few statements by politicians. This means the end of preferential tariffs and benefits in general. Ukraine simply becomes exactly the same state as, for example, Germany or Great Britain, and, therefore, will pay the exact same rates as the rest.
              And for the Ukrainian economy this is a pretty strong blow.

              You dear forgot to add that Ukraine is becoming exactly the same state as Germany under the heart-rending cries of Ukrainians that Moscow is again twisting their hands and trying to drag them into the vehicle by force
          2. Akim
            Akim 28 August 2013 09: 25
            -1
            Quote: Luna
            http://www.iarex.ru/articles/40446.htm

            I will not blame Tsarev for quoting the agreement in this way. Any of the deputies makes the law as a drawbar - if it somehow relates to his business.
            1. user
              user 28 August 2013 10: 59
              +1
              I think that nobody is trying to talk about the worst. It consists in the fact that in the agreement on the association you need to bring your domestic legislation under the terms of the members of this association. It seems, too, is okay, well, it will be like in Europe. Well, the devil is in the details, there is a clause on the free sale of land to foreigners, which is now prohibited. Given the favorable climate of the country and its beautiful lands, as well as the financial condition of the country and the citizens of Ukraine, guess from 3 times who will own all this wealth, given that in the Gulf countries there is no land, but there is money.
              1. Akim
                Akim 28 August 2013 11: 06
                0
                Quote: user
                Well, the devil is in the details, there is a paragraph on the free sale of land

                Please be kind if it will not bother you and show me such mercy by prompting you in which article of this agreement is this clause. Maybe I missed it.
                http://comeuroint.rada.gov.ua/komevroint/doccatalog/document?id=56219
        4. ale-x
          ale-x 28 August 2013 09: 27
          +5
          There is no problem at all. Right? Expand all the goods and send them to the western border of Ukraine, let the EU "do it nicely" and show the seriousness of its intentions.
          1. domokl
            domokl 28 August 2013 09: 43
            +4
            Quote: ale-x
            let the EU "do it nicely" and show the seriousness of its intentions.

            lol Yes, at one time ... The EU will gladly allow Ukrainian goods to its markets. Who will buy a stone ax if there is an iron ax nearby? Such an agreement as a valve allows only one way. And Ukrainian goods, according to the statements themselves Ukrainians are not yet competitive in European markets.
            1. Papakiko
              Papakiko 28 August 2013 10: 45
              +2
              Quote: domokl
              not yet competitive

              And they won’t!

              Quote: Akim
              I will not enter into a discussion on this anymore, because it is hard for me to compete with the Kremlin's "ideological machine". Just know, after such decisions of the Russian authorities, the attitude has changed and not for the better.

              Evanka as the face of AKIMushki was opened.
              We are all Russian patriots in the "car" belay
              After all, the main thing was not even blushing and not apologizing.
              Although by the example of not only him, but many "workers from the independent regions" who bring "the benefit and prosperity" of Russia, as well as the "culture".
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkv8VKOw2gE&list=UUDx2-SCLzDaC4vlh2PCGYQA
              Caution profanity.
              1. Akim
                Akim 28 August 2013 10: 59
                0
                Quote: Papakiko
                We are all Russian patriots in the "car"

                I did not say ALL. But I am often given examples here with videos of RTR, Stars, TVC - obviously not those who look comprehensively. At least once the news line at least stuck with Ren-TV.
                1. Papakiko
                  Papakiko 28 August 2013 11: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: Akim
                  At least once the news line at least stuck with Ren-TV.

                  You can stick a lot and different.
                  And do you have a BBC, CNNe, AlJAzira, not enough for a change?
                  Quote: Akim
                  I did not say ALL

                  And who exactly?
                  Most of the VO visitors live outside the MKAD and their income is not from the "Kremlin money box" and you spat at them!
                  Repent does not arise desire?
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 28 August 2013 11: 29
                    -2
                    Quote: Papakiko
                    Repent does not arise desire?

                    Doesn't arise. Precisely because the majority of the inhabitants of Russia outside the Moscow Ring Road watch and read only "their own". This is normal. Stupid Americans generally don't. Only when accusations are made is it not necessary to pretend to be Lobachevsky and Mendeleev and to overlap reality with emotions.
                    1. Papakiko
                      Papakiko 28 August 2013 12: 27
                      +4
                      Quote: Akim
                      Does not occur.

                      Quote: Akim
                      This is normal.

                      Thank you from the bottom of my heart, as they say.
                      Quote: Akim
                      and read only "their own"

                      And what longboat came here:
                      Quote: Akim
                      Dumb Americans in the mass and do not.

                      Or are we living beyond the Moscow Ring Road not given to understand this?
                      Quote: Akim
                      Only when they make accusations do not need to build themselves Lobachevsky with Mendeleev and emotions overlap reality.

                      Personally, for me, as the great-great-great-grandson of grandfathers who shed blood for the land, which Khrushchev wrote off "Nezalezhnaya", it is very insulting and triple insulting from the "liberals" to hear and see judgments about an independent, independent-independent, independent stealing at the same time raw materials from pipes and trading- supplying "food products" made from "guano" (practically).
                      Is it probably unnecessary to remind about the beating of WWII veterans on May 9, Marsha Bender and volunteers in Chechnya or Georgia?
                      This is about emotions and judgment.
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 28 August 2013 12: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        Personally to me, as the great-great-great-grandson of the grandfathers who shed blood for the land, which Khrushchev wrote "nezalezhnaya"

                        Let's not argue who is more correct there. I, too, can cite as an example my direct ancestor, who was in the rank of captain in Russian-Turkish (77-78) and whose kind is an ancient question here. But this is all tinsel And Crimea in the Ukrainian SSR has translated because of economic feasibility, and not because of political goals. Have TODAY and discuss it. And then the Germans Koenigsberg / Kaliningrad may demand back.
                      2. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 28 August 2013 14: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: Akim
                        And the Crimea in the Ukrainian SSR transferred because of economic feasibility, and not because of political goals

                        Ek as it turns.
                        Kuril Japoncham
                        Bear and Fisherman-Norgesam
                        Vyborg Somam
                        Far East - Chanham
                        Azov-Turekam
                        Etc.
                        Ukraine represented by the "democratic elite" hate and vilify the period of the USSR. Everything there was bad and the famine and the Nazis did not surrender, and so on.
                        So you need to return, as it was before 1917.
                        And it was like this: http: //www.200stran.ru/maps_group20_item2159.html
                        Have TODAY and discuss it.
                        You yourself begin to drag everything in a row because of the lack of argumentation, facts and just why bend the soul of "yatskoy greed for someone else."
                        The saying is not easy, it exists
                        bully
                      3. Akim
                        Akim 28 August 2013 15: 03
                        +1
                        [quote = Papakiko] Ukraine represented by the "democratic elite" hawk and vilify the period of the USSR [/ quote]
                        I’m not a politician, but I don’t think so. Yes, and the group of those has a small percentage. But I repeat once again: THE USSR IS LONG TIME, Unfortunately, NO.
                        [quote = Papakiko]
                        Do you want me to quote English sayings about Russians? For example, it offends me. They don’t divide us there. (we are all Russian to them) And by the way, not everyone in Ukraine is Ukrainians by nationality.
                      4. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 28 August 2013 16: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Akim
                        Ukrainian Ukrainians by nationality.

                        Daragoy you are "our" person, you are not talking with an average mattress pad. Russia, however, is more multinational than "independent".
                        Quote: Akim
                        Do you want me to quote English sayings about Russians? For example, it offends me. They don’t divide us there.

                        You open AKIM's eyes wider and wider on you, you are right and right. wassat And you boast of your Ukrainianness and the fact that you "shaved" do not differ from the Russians. And you want to be like blacks like that?
                        Quote: Akim
                        No, if you want a second Chechnya, please try.

                        "Nezalezhnaya" and the OWNER will do their best to light this fire? Like not to yourself, not to people.
                        The Russian state has a lot of experience in pacifying the Calabrationist fire.
                        Ukraine can boast of such?
                        But besides the supplies of girls and the grub of the Polish gentry, is there anything to be proud of? Many nations rallied around themselves?
                      5. Akim
                        Akim 28 August 2013 17: 03
                        +2
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        The Russian state has a lot of experience in pacifying the Calabrationist fire.

                        An example, except for Chechnya, is it possible? Yes, and there are still explosions from one row to another. Do not get out in 91 years, it’s not yours, but the total. You are a NATIONAL! Well, excuse me, I got the impression. For the sake of imaginary ambitions, to put thousands of people and turn the flourishing Crimea into a hotbed of Muslim extremism and a hot spot. Such ideas and statements should be banned on the forum!
                      6. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 28 August 2013 19: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Akim
                        You are a NATIONAL

                        I observed this in my address only from the Herrr Professor, but he is a Jew, and you, apparently, are at least sympathetic to the Jews?
                        Quote: Akim
                        An example, except for Chechnya, is possible

                        Why did you refer to the Kyuchuk-Kainardzhi peace treaty if you decided to demonstrate your historical "ignorance" or are you just urging on?
                        Chechens were written out of mind much earlier than in 1942. The pro-Western gentry in Ukraine itself was well-educated from Peter the Great.
                        Quote: Akim
                        For the sake of imaginary ambitions, to put thousands of people and turn the flourishing Crimea into a hotbed of Muslim extremism and a hot spot. Such ideas and statements should be banned on the forum!

                        Britam and mattress means it is allowed to incite and develop an attitude in any states, but Russia is not allowed. "Fairy tales" immediately begin to tell and intimidate to turn the blooming Crimea into a hotbed of Muslim extremism and a hot spot.
                        AKIM, just BRAVO good
                      7. Akim
                        Akim 28 August 2013 19: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        and you, apparently, at least sympathizing with the Jews?

                        I'm from Odessa - where "7.40" was composed.
                        Quote: Papakiko
                        it’s important that they brought up Peter the Great.

                        Do you have relatives from Peter's times? Well, you take away their glory. There is Russia - there is neither the USSR nor the Russian Empire, where our peoples lived in a single country.

                        Quote: Papakiko
                        Britam and a mattress are then allowed to incite and develop a position in any state, but Russia is not.
                        You are not all of Russia, and it is not right to say nothing with a child's resentment "they can, but we cannot". Nobody can. But can you prove it?
                    2. mazdie
                      mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 27
                      0
                      So you accuse Russia of having returned the Tatars to Crimea? Wait more and the Romanians with the Poles will come. And gay parades hold buboub.
                    3. Akim
                      Akim 29 August 2013 02: 49
                      0
                      Quote: mazdie
                      Wait more and the Romanians with the Poles will come.

                      Oh, how scary. There are Polish respondents who think that Lviv is theirs. But most do not need it.
                  2. xan
                    xan 28 August 2013 23: 35
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    For the sake of imaginary ambitions, to put thousands of people and turn the flourishing Crimea into a hotbed of Muslim extremism and a hot spot.

                    With you, Ukrainians, Crimea is rotting, already Livadia is slowly selling, and the botanical garden.
                    You did not do anything good there, neither in the case of low lying, nor even more so in the past.
                    You stupid occupiers there
                  3. Akim
                    Akim 29 August 2013 02: 46
                    0
                    Quote: xan
                    You stupid occupiers there

                    Once I turned to insult - that’s the answer - don’t see the Crimea as your ears! Rest on a visit - welcome. So, probably, he didn’t leave anywhere further than the desk
                  4. xan
                    xan 29 August 2013 21: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: Akim
                    Once I turned to insult - that’s the answer - don’t see the Crimea as your ears! Rest on a visit - welcome.

                    nothing to say about the sale of Livadia and the Botanical Garden, I thought so. Crimea is getting worse with you.
                    And we are already taking Crimea, and not only Crimea. For your ears, worry, clearly not save pants
                  5. Akim
                    Akim 29 August 2013 21: 24
                    0
                    Quote: xan
                    For your ears, worry, obviously not to save pants

                    I TALK ONCE AGAIN - MILITARIANS FROM THE CRIMEA ARE NOT GOING TO RIDE ABROAD.
                    In general, the thinker works. You propose to take away their small homeland without even asking for people's opinions. This is called aggression.
                  6. xan
                    xan 30 August 2013 14: 07
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    I TALK ONCE AGAIN - MILITARIANS FROM THE CRIMEA ARE NOT GOING TO RIDE ABROAD.
                    In general, the thinker works. You propose to take away their small homeland without even asking for people's opinions. This is called aggression.

                    Crimean military is not Crimeans
                    you are Ukrainians invaders there
                  7. Akim
                    Akim 30 August 2013 14: 23
                    0
                    Quote: xan
                    Crimean military is not Crimeans

                    With me at the Institute in batteries of 60 people, 8 were from the Crimea (from Simferopol, Alupka, Yalta ...). The troops were a bunch of Crimeans. You do not know, do not blurt out and do not incite ethnic hatred! It’s happy to remain with your own limited opinion. Conversation is over.
    2. mazdie
      mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 26
      0
      And we do not need to share)
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 August 2013 14: 45
    +2
    Quote: Akim
    And then the Germans Koenigsberg / Kaliningrad may demand back.

    They can demand, but who can give them.
  • Akim
    Akim 28 August 2013 14: 57
    -2
    Quote: Setrac
    They can demand, but who can give them.

    Here you have the answer in the Crimea. No, if you want a second Chechnya, please try.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 28 August 2013 15: 01
    +4
    Quote: Akim
    No, if you want a second Chechnya, please try.

    Do you think that someone is afraid of a "second Chechnya"?
  • Akim
    Akim 28 August 2013 15: 10
    0
    Quote: Spade
    that we have a "second Chechnya" someone is afraid of?

    Yes, MOTHER! Without even touching such a painful question
    Let's go aside. Here, many blame those who took the oath of Ukraine after the oath to the already defunct USSR. But what about those who serve in the Armed Forces and come from the Crimea?
  • mazdie
    mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 30
    0
    Chechnya will not be there; Crimea is purely Russian land and mainly the Russian people.
  • Akim
    Akim 29 August 2013 02: 57
    -1
    Quote: mazdie
    Crimea is a purely Russian land and mostly Russian people.

    But the Tatars believe the opposite. And the Russian people are not always Russian. I am also not a Ukrainian, but a citizen of Ukraine. My colleagues were many from the Crimea and they are not going to go abroad to their parents. Yes, and their parents as well. There is a group of people actively campaigning in favor of Russia, many are well disposed towards Russia - the entire Black Sea coast. But this does not mean that they relate themselves to modern Russia. With Russian culture, yes.
    Babel and Akhmatavo were Russian writers, not Russian.
  • alexng
    alexng 29 August 2013 12: 14
    +1
    And you yourself have set up the Tatars against yourself with yours. My relatives live in Crimea and I myself go there at least 4 once a year, and I have other information. Many Tatars installed satellite dishes to watch programs in Russian, as the language id_iotism on TV already got everything there. Yes there are political balamutes. bribed by orange, but not enough, although they are at the helm. So, if you look at all this from a different angle, then not everything turns out so smoothly with pulling by the ears.
    And about Ukraine I’ll say this if the bride went to another, it is not yet known who was lucky. Fair wind ...
  • Setrac
    Setrac 29 August 2013 01: 09
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    Here you have the answer in the Crimea. No, if you want a second Chechnya, please try.

    If the State Department finances a second Chechnya, it will be irrespective of who owns Crimea. In addition, if Russia takes the Crimea from Ukraine, it will mean abandonment of the rest of Ukraine.
  • Allegedly
    Allegedly 29 August 2013 01: 46
    0
    Quote: Setrac
    if Russia takes the Crimea from Ukraine, it will mean abandonment of the rest of Ukraine


    With Crimea, it is necessary to take Novorossia and Bessarabia (its Ukrainian part, so far repeat ) In my humble opinion, the whole of Eastern Ukraine is not worth taking. There are many reasons. They themselves will then break away, then permission to join them can be presented as a favor.
  • Akim
    Akim 29 August 2013 03: 02
    0
    Quote: JACOB
    It is necessary to take Novorossia and Bessarabia with Crimea

    I am so "striving" to become a citizen of Russia. And the generation up to 40 - too.
  • xan
    xan 30 August 2013 14: 12
    0
    Quote: Akim
    I am so "striving" to become a citizen of Russia. And the generation up to 40 - too.

    you will remain in an independent but circumcised Ukraine
    it's not yours.
  • Akim
    Akim 30 August 2013 14: 27
    0
    Quote: xan
    it's not yours

    Yes, Crimea belonged to the Turks in the 17th century. Wake her famously while quiet.
  • mazdie
    mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 24
    0
    There is a difference between conquered and subordinate lands within the state.
  • mazdie
    mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 21
    0
    In Ukraine, they also watch and read the local media.
  • ultra
    ultra 29 August 2013 00: 12
    0
    Quote: Akim
    At least once the news line at least stuck with Ren-TV.

    I listen to Echo of Moscow every day (probably this is a form of masochism), and what? Ren also regularly watch, after that I just want to give a face, preferably someone from the leadership of these media!
    1. Akim
      Akim 29 August 2013 03: 05
      0
      Quote: ultra
      after that I would like to give a face, preferably to someone from the leadership of these media!

      You see. This is you still about RTVI, the channel "Rain" and "Top Secret" did not mention. There are also opinions that many do not like.
  • avt
    avt 28 August 2013 09: 53
    +2
    Quote: Akim
    The Association Agreement is not an immediate entry.

    Absolutely right! laughing Ukraine will not receive any benefits and preferences granted to REAL members of the European Union, but you will fulfill the obligations prescribed in your agreement in full, for the generally accepted rules of communication of the WTO in the East, quite market ones - business and nothing personal. What GDP specifically warned you about and demonstrated in an easy test version. But as always, a howl rose about the infringement by the Mertz gentle tender.
  • seller trucks
    28 August 2013 11: 13
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    But this does not mean kirdyk to all economic ties, as many politicians present.


    Kim, do you think it will be so?
    1. Akim
      Akim 28 August 2013 11: 31
      -1
      Quote: seller trucks
      Kim, do you think it will be so?

      Do not build peaks of high or low.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 August 2013 13: 12
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    But this does not mean kirdyk to all economic ties, as many politicians present.

    Of course, there will be no "kirdyk", the state of Ukraine will not go anywhere, and (oddly enough) will not even fall apart, but trade with Russia will sharply decline, which means lost jobs, closed enterprises, and a general decline in living standards. Trade with the EU does not compensate for this.
    1. Akim
      Akim 28 August 2013 13: 30
      0
      Quote: Setrac
      but trade with Russia will decline sharply, which means lost jobs, closed enterprises, and a general decline in living standards. Trade with the EU does not compensate for this.


      Let's live and see how it will be.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 August 2013 14: 46
        0
        Quote: Akim
        Let's live and see how it will be.

        But where are we going then? Wait and see We will see!
  • ksan
    ksan 28 August 2013 23: 50
    0
    First of all, it is a free trade zone without a supranational body.
    So without a supranational? And a tolmud of 1000 pages is not an instruction to act in this way and not otherwise?
    1. Akim
      Akim 29 August 2013 03: 08
      0
      Quote: ksan
      And a tolmud of 1000 pages is not an instruction to act in this way and not otherwise?

      Have you read it or heard it? I gave the link up there. Please be an example of the article where this is mentioned.
  • Jake danzels
    Jake danzels 28 August 2013 10: 36
    -2
    Eugene, have you been in Lviv for a long time? And were you there? If not, do not draw conclusions on people based on pyrOdIce from a zomboyaschik and articles from tyrneta.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 28 August 2013 10: 50
      +3
      Quote: Jake Danzels
      Eugene, have you been in Lviv for a long time? And were you there? If not, do not draw conclusions on people based on pyrOdIce from a zomboyaschik and articles from tyrneta.


      I was not only there, I also served there - the non-important people there. If you write how I think about them based on PERSONAL observations and PERSONAL experience of communication, they will ban the site forever from this.
      1. Jake danzels
        Jake danzels 28 August 2013 11: 46
        +1
        What year did you serve there?
        Hudo so this is yours subjectiveopinion.
        Why do the crowds of Russian tourists go to the same Carpathians and Lviv to relax from year to year?
        We take Kiev for the May holidays while walking around Postal Square and the Mariinsky Park, we met 3 married couples from Russia, during the conversation one of these couples turned out to travel regularly to rest / walk to Kiev.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 28 August 2013 11: 58
          +3
          Quote: Jake Danzels
          What year did you serve there?


          He served in the late 90s - early 2000s, but I regularly visit friends and colleagues, and I know not only the front side.

          Quote: Jake Danzels
          Hudo is your subjective numbness.


          No way! At one time, I met hereditary railway engineers and adequate people from their circle of acquaintances - their attitude to the unwashed fascist rag is even more radical than mine.
    2. Jake danzels
      Jake danzels 28 August 2013 10: 58
      -3
      Minus, I do not mind. Raise your conceit.
      As long as I live, I understand a simple truth:
      1. the family has its black sheep - what do you have, that we have enough mu "kov;
      2. Regarding Lviv, people who have not visited me there ever touched me, but the ORUT will be completely ruined by what Russian-independents are, while other imbitsily repeat their words.
      For reference, I have many friends in the Russian Federation: Kursa, Moscow, Tula, Samara, Surgut.
      All of them periodically come to visit (Kiev), almost all of them went to rest in Lviv and the Carpathians, and for your surprise, no one gave them a muzzle, no one ran after them with a pitchfork and an ax.
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 28 August 2013 13: 00
        -4
        Quote: Jake Danzels
        about Lviv, people who touch me there never touched me in my life, but the ORUT will be completely ruined by what other Russian-independents are, while other imbitsily repeat their words.

        it amazes me too
        but here they will yell ... the site is ...
      2. mazdie
        mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 34
        0
        because they carry money
    3. Jake danzels
      Jake danzels 28 August 2013 11: 06
      -2
      I’ll tell you a secret, you laugh at the monitor smile According to your points:
      1. in the first, replace the policy, the word self-interest. Politics comes from lat. politiisa, from politicus "concerning state affairs, political", and that in Ukraine and in the Russian Federation the main driver of the country's development is "Otkat";
      2. Have you really made such a decision? Here the man said, the man did;
      3. What do you care about with whom the neighboring state compares itself, there is no need to yell about fraternity, but give an objective assessment of your words;
      4. Could, has long been replaced on the basis of your own point number 1.
  • Micex
    Micex 28 August 2013 08: 29
    +3
    It's a shame that once one country (and not only the USSR) was divided and went in different ways. And the mentality is one, and the language, everything is in many respects common. And now the big chunk is moving aside, essentially, saying - by the thoughts of goodbye. It’s a shame for this, because then you can’t return the connections that will be lost.
    1. domokl
      domokl 28 August 2013 09: 24
      +3
      Quote: Micex
      It’s a shame for this, because then you can’t return the connections that will be lost.

      Alas, these connections, in many respects, have already been lost. Take away now people older than 40 in both countries and what do we get? The younger ones are almost completely living in different countries and are not thinking about any brotherhood ...
      You can’t enter the same river twice, but you can enter the other river. Maybe someday our descendants will unite the countries again. But it will not even be grandchildren.
  • Suhov
    Suhov 28 August 2013 08: 47
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    When you tell yourself
    "Here you are Doo ..." - it sounds self-critical,
    when they say to you: "You Du ..." is offensively.


    If Ukraine, in spite of any carrots / sticks, nevertheless decided to refuse to participate in the CU, but decided to nevertheless join the FTZ with the European Union, then there are reasons for this. Well, not fools, they are all there. There must be some interest.

    Afflicts and alarming whatthat:
    According to the Ukrainian side, the benefit of Ukraine from its participation in the FTZ outweighs the benefit from its participation in the CU.

    Who knows - enlighten what kind of gingerbread Ukraine will receive from its accession to the FTZ with Europe, in the context of enterprise citizens.
    1. Akim
      Akim 28 August 2013 09: 00
      -5
      Quote: Sukhov
      According to the Ukrainian side, the benefit of Ukraine from its participation in the FTZ outweighs the benefit from its participation in the CU.

      You are comparing two different levels of economic partnership. I will not enter into a discussion on this anymore, because it is hard for me to compete with the Kremlin's "ideological machine". Just know, after such decisions of the Russian authorities, the attitude has changed and not for the better.
      1. Suhov
        Suhov 28 August 2013 09: 12
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        I will not enter into a discussion on this anymore, because it is hard for me to compete with the Kremlin's "ideological machine".

        I seriously asked. Do not want to discuss - we will not.
        But still, in one sentence, what is the benefit of Ukraine from its accession to the FTZ.
        With respect. hi
      2. Hudo
        Hudo 28 August 2013 09: 43
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        Just know that after such decisions of the Russian authorities, my attitude has changed and not for the better.



        Hello Akim! It’s very likely that your "changed opinion not for the better" will undergo some transformations in the opposite direction under the extremely painful impact of harsh reality.

        Quote: Akim
        because it's hard for me to compete with the Kremlin's "ideological machine"


        Huh huh! The ideological machines of the EU and the USA at this time, you might think, are simply idle.
        1. Akim
          Akim 28 August 2013 10: 02
          +2
          Quote: Hudo
          Huh huh! The ideological machines of the EU and the USA at this time, you might think, are simply idle.

          I sometimes argue with the Poles. I don’t feel such anger in the conversation. Only when we touch the USSR (which I defend, and they attack). And here as ex-husband and wife. Constantly sleep. 22 years have passed - you still can’t calm down.
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 28 August 2013 10: 14
            +2
            Quote: Akim

            I sometimes argue with the Poles. I do not feel such anger in the conversation.


            Do not worry, this is smoke. Curtain. Malice will come later - when the ambition of Chmyreki and Drysleki get a real opportunity to realize their ambitions.
            1. avt
              avt 28 August 2013 10: 23
              +4
              Quote: Hudo
              Do not worry, this is smoke. Curtain. Malice will come later - when the ambition of Chmyreki and Drysleki get a real opportunity to realize their ambitions.

              good I will not forget the story of a distant relative of one who has gone through the war - "You will go to the Lithuanian to ask for water, he will mutter something and throw an empty bucket, and the Poles are ready to lick you during the day, but at night get ready to get a knife in your back."
              Quote: Akim
              . Only when we touch the USSR (which I defend, and they attack). And here as ex-husband and wife. Constantly sleep. 22 years have passed - you still can’t calm down.

              Note the very Poles who, for the real oil allocated by Lenin Brezhnev on the CMEA quota, scored to increase the living standards of loans in the West at crazy interest, but when the Yankees fell off the Saudis for a short time, the price of paying off debts on interest - everything collapsed and the USSR turned out to be a strangler to proud Polish democracy. Doesn't wind anything? I do not want to draw analogies? Just keep in mind - the Poles are already kind of like permanent members, but they don’t even offer you stools - they recommend standing next to them, associatively.
          2. Papakiko
            Papakiko 28 August 2013 11: 01
            +4
            Quote: Akim
            I do not feel such anger in the conversation.

            And where did you feel and feel this "malice"?
            Constantly sleep. 22 years have passed - you still can’t calm down.
            And there is no need to throw the Kremlin's "ideological machine" at us and at the same time steal gas from the pipes and feed it with "guan" wrapped in a beautiful "ROSHEN" wrapper and so on.
            1. Akim
              Akim 28 August 2013 11: 11
              -5
              Quote: Papakiko
              And where did you feel and feel this "malice"?

              To enumerate by article or enough only "you fall apart without us." Like TV Moscow in 2003, it was ready to give Crimea to the Turks, if only Ukraine did not have it.
              1. Papakiko
                Papakiko 28 August 2013 11: 43
                +4
                Quote: Akim
                Like Moscow TV in 2003, it was ready to give Crimea to the Turks, if only Ukraine did not stay with it.

                belay You do not use them Ferghana or Gibloaltarsky? Can you start attributing Brzezhinsky’s statements to us?
                Quote: Akim
                To list by article or enough only "you fall apart without us"

                Where is VILLA here?
                This is a statement of fact.
                Without protection from Russia or the Russian people, Ukraine will become part of Poland, Romania and Turkey.
                Or do you naively think that the geyrope needs Ukraine in the form that it is now (within the borders, I mean)?

                This simple example is very well suited to the issue under discussion.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 28 August 2013 11: 59
                  -3
                  Quote: Papakiko
                  You do not use them Ferghana or Gibloaltarsky?

                  No, only local laughing
                  I can’t give evidence, but then, after this transfer, I had to explain to the soldiers what the Kuchuk-Kainardzhi peace treaty was (I didn’t understand a damn thing and I still couldn’t use the Internet to get information), as well as the statement of the Turkish ambassador in Kiev about this. The conflict with Tuzla has put a lot into place.
                  1. Papakiko
                    Papakiko 28 August 2013 12: 50
                    +2
                    Quote: Akim
                    Kyuchuk-Kainardzhi peace treaty

                    There were others later.
                    The Iasi, Bucharest, Adrianople and Berlin treatises, these are all up to 1MB. (We do not take into account all kinds of communiqués, etc.)
                    Quote: Akim
                    The conflict with Tuzla has put a lot into place.

                    How's that?
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 28 August 2013 12: 59
                      -1
                      Quote: Papakiko
                      There were others later.

                      Exactly they were - of course. I gave an example when they built this damn dam, put an excavator in its way and the conflict almost became heated. And then one "teletapalka" said that according to this agreement, if Crimea does not belong to Russia, it must return to Turkey. And then "TV Moscow" still showed without cable and it got into the ears of the soldiers in the "Lenkomnat".
                      Quote: Papakiko
                      How's that?

                      When words about friendship diverge from deeds.
                    2. mazdie
                      mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 41
                      0
                      I can’t believe that the Russian people will never agree to the territory of Ukraine moving away to another state. (Except for unification)
            2. xan
              xan 28 August 2013 12: 05
              +2
              Quote: Akim
              To enumerate by article or enough only "you fall apart without us." Like TV Moscow in 2003, it was ready to give Crimea to the Turks, if only Ukraine did not have it.

              the question on Crimea is still here, it is still standing
              give our lands, and in the rest of Ukraine do what you want
              1. Akim
                Akim 28 August 2013 12: 14
                -2
                Quote: xan
                give our lands, and in the rest of Ukraine do what you want

                Do you know the Indian national dwelling "Figwam" is called? Panin ditched his tongue. They explained to him (how to put it mildly) that he was wrong. Moreover, not only Tatars.
                1. mazdie
                  mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 43
                  0
                  Ukraine is part of Russia, Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. we are fucked up by Yugoslavia, and we are fighting among ourselves
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 29 August 2013 03: 12
                    0
                    Quote: mazdie
                    Ukraine is part of Russia, Kiev is the mother of Russian cities

                    There is no dispute. And also part of the Russian Empire and the USSR, but not part of the Russian Federation.
              2. Setrac
                Setrac 28 August 2013 14: 48
                +2
                Quote: xan
                give our lands, and in the rest of Ukraine do what you want

                "Why are you squandering the state lands of the king's face?"
            3. mazdie
              mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 39
              0
              When the Crimea to the Turks? Stunned at the end, I do not believe
        2. mazdie
          mazdie 28 August 2013 23: 37
          0
          C'mon, one obstacle is the ambition of the elites, common people together would be better.
    2. edge
      edge 28 August 2013 11: 09
      +2
      Quote: Akim
      According to the Ukrainian side, the benefit of Ukraine from its participation in the FTZ outweighs the benefit from its participation in the CU.

      Was recently on vacation in the Belarusian Polesie Ukrainians in the forests beat all the mushrooms and berries, local in a trance, but Lukashenko so far ....
      1. Akim
        Akim 28 August 2013 11: 20
        0
        Quote: hert
        in Belarusian Polesie Ukrainians in the forests beat all the mushrooms and berries,

        What a "burning example"! They eat it all out of hunger. Yes, they sell it all and earn good money.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 28 August 2013 11: 25
          +3
          Quote: Akim
          Quote: hert
          in Belarusian Polesie Ukrainians in the forests beat all the mushrooms and berries,

          What a "burning example"! They eat it all out of hunger. Yes, they sell it all and earn good money.


          It is more likely that there is simply no other way to make money, and this method will soon be covered with a copper basin.
          1. Akim
            Akim 28 August 2013 11: 35
            -3
            Quote: Hudo
            It’s more likely that there’s simply no other way to make money,

            These are villagers, they are good for any means. No, Lukashenko should crush them like in the Sea of ​​Azov for bulls. Cover, then they will cry. Why are you constantly making gloomy pictures?
            1. Hudo
              Hudo 28 August 2013 11: 50
              +4
              Quote: Akim
              These are villagers, they are good for any means.


              ???????????? I always thought that the villagers were engaged in agriculture, and not primitive gathering.

              Quote: Akim
              No, Lukashenko should crush them like in the Sea of ​​Azov for bulls.


              Not for bulls, but for poaching and disobeying the lawful demands of the border guards during the persecution and as a result of dangerous tactics by the poachers that led to the clash.

              Quote: Akim
              Why are you constantly making gloomy pictures?


              You know, dear, I am a realist, not a fantasy. I cannot, like you, write about the awesome "successes" of the nezalezhnoy type of army, when I see that even wreaths are laid on monuments by militiamen and not by the military. Even the companies of the guard of honor have been formed from "brave" policemen !!!! (photos not to please from the regional centers?). So it goes, the nezalezhnoy forces will become a department within the Ministry of Internal Affairs, together with the Ministry of Emergency Situations and firefighters.
              1. Akim
                Akim 28 August 2013 12: 26
                -1
                Let's go the other way around:
                Quote: Hudo
                I cannot, like you, write about the awesome "successes" of the non-foreign type of army,

                And they are not, so there is nothing special to write about.
                Quote: Hudo
                and for poaching and disobeying the lawful requirements of border guards

                You live in Ukraine and more information comes to you. Poaching has yet to be proved, but there was no violation of the state border, because there is no border in the Sea of ​​Azov.
                Quote: Hudo
                the villagers are engaged in agriculture, not primitive gathering.

                That's why it seems to you all bad. Beekeeping, picking berries and mushrooms, herbs, birch sap - all this brings a good income. This is an explanation for those who planted only potatoes in the country.
            2. xan
              xan 28 August 2013 11: 55
              0
              Quote: Akim
              These are villagers, they are good for any means. No, Lukashenko should crush them like in the Sea of ​​Azov for bulls. Cover, then they will cry. Why are you constantly making gloomy pictures?

              about Akim (stupid)

              your horizon is crystal clear
              and full of rainbow paintings
              not because the world is beautiful
              but because you're a nerd
              1. Akim
                Akim 28 August 2013 12: 06
                +2
                Quote: xan
                but because you're a nerd

                Thank you for your opinion. He proves that I am reasoning correctly, for hanging labels on an individual person, because his opinion does not coincide with the crowd shows how good it is to go a separate path, but sometimes intersect.
          2. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 28 August 2013 12: 15
            +3
            Quote: Hudo
            It’s more likely that there’s simply no other way to make money,

            I don’t want to interrupt your informative conversation, but in the 150-200km from Moscow in the Vladimir region, very many people make a living in the same way, with berries and mushrooms. Because it gives a good income, and you can’t run into money for money in Moscow.
            1. seller trucks
              28 August 2013 12: 34
              +1
              Quote: Vladimirets
              I do not want to interrupt your informative conversation, but in 150-200km from Moscow in the Vladimir Region, very many people make a living in the same way, with berries and mushrooms.


              the age-old question of life: "If life is beyond the Moscow Ring Road?", personally checked: "Yes."

              Quote: Vladimirets
              and you won’t run into money for money in Moscow.


              interesting thing, it turns out, from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Ukraine you run into a run, but from Vladimir - no, it’s strange, don’t you?
              1. Akim
                Akim 28 August 2013 12: 45
                0
                Quote: seller trucks
                interesting, it turns out, from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Ukraine you’ll run into

                The regions are different and people are the same. Let’s say I’m not being pulled from Odessa to Moscow. Yes, and relax too. I do not like big cities like Kiev, Moscow - it crushes them.
                1. seller trucks
                  28 August 2013 13: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  Let’s say I’m not being pulled from Odessa to Moscow.


                  Akim, subjectively, 6 000 000 is somehow more convincing, and the statistics are depressing: 80% of students want to leave Ukraine
                  http://mignews.com.ua/ru/articles/105644.html

                  anticipating a logical answer:

                  Tim Kirby's article: "Silly questions, or why the Europeans began to blame for Russia" http://www.odnako.org/blogs/show_27115/ I wanted to post it on the site.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 28 August 2013 13: 27
                    0
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    6 is more convincing, and the statistics are depressing: 000% of students want to leave Ukraine

                    There is other data. Up to three lemons. With students, your truth. Dream to dump. But this is in youth and in search of an easy life - (as if they were waiting there). But this is not an indicator.
                    As for zarobіtchan. It makes sense to work in Moscow apiece of bucks when there is no salary at home. But if you work in Kiev normally, then it’s not a lot of money. Just have a different skill level. Workers from Transnistria also come to Odessa. But no one goes to Ryazan from the Ukrainians to earn money. Correctly said, Russia is not only the Moscow Ring Road and oil-bearing regions.
                  2. seller trucks
                    28 August 2013 13: 54
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    There is other data. Up to three lemons.


                    http://www.naim.ru/nodes/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B4%D1%8B%D0%B9-%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B4
                    %D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9-%D0%B6%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C-%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80
                    %D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8B-%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%B9%
                    D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80006190.html

                    6 500 000, however.
                  3. Akim
                    Akim 28 August 2013 14: 49
                    0
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    6 500 000, however.

                    I couldn’t go there, but there is a website of the State Statistics Committee - where the figure is 1,2 million. http://www.ukrstat.gov.ua/
                    Feel free to multiply it by two and it will not be enough. Think for yourself logically. Over 10% of the population earns money. This, sorry nonsense. Well, if you want to believe that we have one devastation here, it’s useless for me to prove anything to you.
                    PS Yes, I, like my grandfather, Zhigul, do not change every two years, but I walk only for health.
                  4. seller trucks
                    28 August 2013 15: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    I could not go there


                    Well, then I gave garbage here http://society.lb.ua/sobes/2011/09/30/117268_kazhdiy_sedmoy_ukrainets__gastar.ht
                    ml

                    this is more than 10%, nonsense is not nonsense, I already wrote that under Ukrainian law I am a citizen of Ukraine, although I have been living in Russia for almost 20 years with a Russian passport. I know plenty of such people
                  5. Akim
                    Akim 28 August 2013 16: 08
                    0
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    http://society.lb.ua/sobes/2011/09/30/117268_kazhdiy_sedmoy_ukrainets__gastar.ht

                    ml

                    Haha, this is what he gave me:
                    We lost her
                    Today, quite unexpectedly, a page disappeared on the website of the newspaper Left Bank. According to eyewitnesses, it is difficult to establish whether she was here earlier.

                    My dad reads the same communist press. He criticizes the authorities. Only in these 20 years he has already changed 4 cars: Volga-Ford Escort-Lanos - Jelly MK.
                  6. seller trucks
                    28 August 2013 16: 43
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    Haha, this is what he gave me:


                    honestly, I don’t know what this garbage is :( there is a double space at the end of the proof gastar.ht ml, you can drag them to the address bar and remove them, or insert into the search engine "Every seventh Ukrainian is a guest worker", the main link to "Unian"

                    Quote: Akim
                    for these 20 years already replaced 4 car: Volga-Ford Escort-Lanos - Jelly MK.


                    subjective again. Yes, and the market for the sale of new / used. cars are orders of magnitude worse than in Russia.
                  7. Akim
                    Akim 28 August 2013 16: 53
                    0
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    . Yes, and the market for the sale of new / used. cars are orders of magnitude worse than in Russia.

                    Well, not an order of magnitude, but a lot. Naturally, I know those who hobble over the hill and also looked at their houses in Transcarpathia. I will never buy this. Compared to them, as a legacy to me, my relatives left a miserable shack with an attic of 150 squares.
                  8. seller trucks
                    28 August 2013 17: 31
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    Well, not an order of magnitude, but a lot.


                    Well, Akim, this is not even an order of magnitude:
                    In Russia:
                    http://serega.icnet.ru/CarSale_2012_1.html
                    In Ukraine:
                    http://news.finance.ua/ru/~/1/0/all/2013/01/16/294838

                    Quote: Akim
                    I will never buy this.


                    I do not belong to the category of wealthy
                  9. Akim
                    Akim 28 August 2013 18: 00
                    0
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    Well, Akim, this is not even an order of magnitude:

                    We think different things. You are selling, and I'm car density
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 August 2013 14: 53
    0
    Quote: seller trucks
    Tim Kirby's article: "Silly questions, or why the Europeans began to blame for Russia" http://www.odnako.org/blogs/show_27115/ I wanted to post it on the site.

    Commenting on your link, I will say this - no one wants to fight against the Russians in the upcoming redistribution of the world (and it happens every hundred years). Russia has never lost in these wars.
    And yet, I go to the West "for freebies", to Russia - to work.
  • Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 28 August 2013 12: 54
    0
    Quote: seller trucks
    interesting thing, it turns out, from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Ukraine you run into a run, but from Vladimir - no, it’s strange, don’t you?

    Lazy people, for 30tyr do not want to live in the trailer, eat quick noodles, do not wash, do not be home for six months. The truth is strange, but they could, no one has a wife, children, relatives. But it’s not Muscovites what kind of demands the people have gone. what
    1. seller trucks
      28 August 2013 13: 44
      0
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Lazy people, for 30tyr do not want to live in a trailer,


      Yes, stop it: GUP Mosgortrans, 1 Automobile Plant, Arks, SU 155, Spetsstroy, Transstroy there are always vacancies, a hostel is provided, salaries are available. In the end, there is always a choice to sit on the road not to work and to drink or earn money.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 28 August 2013 13: 54
        +2
        Quote: seller trucks
        Yes, stop it: GUP Mosgortrans, 1 Automobile Plant, Arks, SU 155, Spetsstroy, Transstroy there are always vacancies, a hostel is provided, salaries are available. In the end, there is always a choice to sit on the road not to work and to drink or earn money.

        Yes Yes. After the Moscow Ring Road, after all, they are bukhariks, only in Moscow they know what work and real life are. And salaries according to opportunities, that's how great it is. I have a friend, an industrial climber, he received a salary of almost half as much for the same work, only because the registration was not in Moscow. Interesting, right? I repeat once again, would you like to see your kids at best once a week? Only about sitting on the asshole is not necessary.
      2. seller trucks
        28 August 2013 14: 13
        0
        Quote: Vladimirets
        And salaries according to opportunities, that's how great it is.


        I will tell you so, for my current job I get about 3 hours, changing 3 modes of transport, on the road 6 hours daily, I have the choice to earn 25 thousand or 40-50, it's my choice, I’m leaving for 7, I’m coming to 21, the child was brought up without me.
      3. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 28 August 2013 14: 31
        0
        Quote: seller trucks
        and my current job I get about 3 hours, changing 3 modes of transport, 6 hours on the road every day, I have the choice to earn 25 thousand or 40-50, this is my choice, I leave at 7, I arrive at 21, the child was brought up without me.

        And still, you leave home and come to the house, and do not live in a hostel for weeks, and that means a lot.
  • Luna
    Luna 28 August 2013 09: 10
    +1
    Sukhov what gingerbread Ukraine will receive from its accession to the FTZ with Europe

    http://vybor.ua/article/vneshnjaja_politika/paru-cifr-iz-dopolneniy-k-soglasheni
    yu-ob-associacii-s-es-v-chasti-dogovora-o-zst.html
    1. Suhov
      Suhov 28 August 2013 09: 15
      0
      Quote: Luna
      Sukhov what gingerbread Ukraine will receive from its accession to the FTZ with Europe

      I looked, but I did not see the gingerbread there. But they should be, in theory ...
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 28 August 2013 09: 45
        +2
        Quote: Sukhov
        Quote: Luna
        Sukhov what gingerbread Ukraine will receive from its accession to the FTZ with Europe

        I looked, but I did not see the gingerbread there. But they should be, in theory ...



        To whom - pies and crumpets, and to whom cuffs and bumps / proverb /.
      2. Luna
        Luna 28 August 2013 19: 52
        +2
        In theory, they should. But as I read, I cannot find anything intelligible except about "European values".

        http://minprom.ua/digest/131099.html
  • avt
    avt 28 August 2013 09: 08
    +8
    Quote: Akim
    I understand that I will express an opinion that the mass of Russians do not like. But I am already waiting for the signing of the Association Agreement and ratification of it.

    You will not believe it, but how I wait! And for almost the same reason, I'm tired of all this cunning ... When their selfish interest is disguised as some kind of political games about impertsev and oppressed independents, while also great-power ukrov. I can’t wait until the Kremlin, which fed from his hand for more than twenty years, in fairness and did not forget his personal pocket, confusing "personal wool from the public", but the European Union will explain very clearly to itself - stretch the legs by the clothes. Well, he will shorten these legs, or straighten them, but whoever can stretch them, thank God, it will not concern us - the choice yours, the rules are gayvrop. Well, but the fact that we are to blame will be all the same - well, since we will survive, we have already got used to it for so many years of your independence.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 28 August 2013 09: 23
      +5
      Quote: avt
      Well, shorten these legs, or straighten, well, maybe someone will hold them, so thank God it will not concern us - your choice, the rules are gay

      Naturally shorten. The Europeans do not need a strong Ukraine, just like Russia. First, territorial disputes in favor of the Romanians will be resolved, then the remnants of the economy, etc. will be finished.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 28 August 2013 09: 47
        +2
        Quote: Garrin
        First, territorial disputes in favor of the Romanians will be resolved, then the remnants of the economy, etc. will be finished.


        Not only Romanians - the Madars and Psheks are also waiting for their portion. One Transcarpathia, others generally exorbitant appetite.
    2. Akim
      Akim 28 August 2013 11: 50
      +2
      Quote: avt
      stretch legs on clothes.

      Do not draw a Procrustean bed. Russia is not the USSR with its great idea of ​​socialism, and your journalists are not working for the idea either. If your bourgeois would be unprofitable, then they would sit and be silent.
      1. avt
        avt 28 August 2013 17: 14
        0
        Quote: Akim
        Russia is not the USSR with its great idea of ​​socialism

        request And where and when did I say this?
        Quote: Akim
        Do not draw a Procrustean bed.

        And why draw!? It exists for itself in geyvrop, it’s quite for you already in the agreement on association to fit it, well, and how it works in practice, you can ask the Bulgarians, Greeks, and the Baltic states accordingly. Yes, what am I right, you will soon find out and You will praise us. In general, train to keep cmiling.
        1. Makhno
          Makhno 28 August 2013 19: 41
          -1
          Quote: avt
          Well, how does it work in practice - you can well ask the Bulgarians, Greeks, and the Baltic states, respectively

          Please tell me how many ethnic Russians from these unfortunate countries enslaved by the EU, unable to bear such a share, returned to their historical homeland? And in general, could you cite statistics and disclose here how many residents of the "beggars" of the EU, USA, Canada, Israel, etc. have emigrated to "prosperous" Russia? This will be the most reliable indicator.
          1. avt
            avt 28 August 2013 20: 31
            +3
            Quote: Makhno
            Please tell me how many ethnic Russians from these unfortunate countries enslaved by the EU, unable to bear such a share, returned to their historical homeland?

            Come on, in Europe, with a fair wind. It’s just that if your century-old dream would come true and finally the moans about the oppression of the great-Ukrainians by the evil Kremlin would end. Yes, and it’s easier for us to negotiate with the European Union, well, you zapiryvayut songs about the Great Ukrainians. Well then you can tell what grateful listeners they are, I believe you in advance. laughing But he said and I repeat - you will not leave us alone, we will again be to blame for the European election. But we are already familiar.
            1. Makhno
              Makhno 29 August 2013 00: 10
              0
              And what about the statistics of emigration from the "impoverished" in the EU and others to the "prosperous" Russia, you are ours? I suppose that these data are strictly classified, because they will cause panic in the West from such a mass flight of the population to Russia and the Customs Union.laughing
              py.s. tavarischi gaspada scattered, minus, do not be shy .... and how do I live now, with such a rating? crying
  • domokl
    domokl 28 August 2013 09: 13
    +5
    Quote: Akim
    the country for many living here is a native country and the reaction is only negative.

    We talk quite loyally. Sometimes it really breaks down. But the country is native not only for Ukrainians ... But we left the USSR. Okay, the Baltic states, okay western Ukraine. There have always been more enemies than friends. But the rest of Ukraine, why is silent? Why a bunch reptiles more than 0 years of mocking the country and the people and everything gets away
    So your insult may be appropriate, but understand us. Almost a quarter of a century we are told that you are deceivers, you are miser, you are traitors to the fraternity ... Ukrainian soldiers are shooting at our soldiers in Chechnya and South Ossetia. We are blackmailed by the Black Sea Fleet and Sevastopol. Patience is really comes to an end. You are probably right. It is necessary for Ukraine to sign an agreement and finally withdraw from the former Soviet Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan ...
  • dmit-xnumx
    dmit-xnumx 28 August 2013 09: 23
    +2
    "Resentment is the lot of a fool and the privilege of a servant."
  • Cormorants
    Cormorants 28 August 2013 09: 30
    +3
    The article is good, I liked it. I can’t understand why you decided that they would attack you, they perfectly explained to you what your integration into Europe would lead to, you did not understand. And the Kremlin reacted normally, it defends the interests of the members of the CU. Just can not understand what Ukraine can offer Europe ???
    To be honest, I’m upset, two Slavic people, but they’re going separately, you don’t want to be friends, okay.
  • Luger
    Luger 28 August 2013 10: 41
    +1
    I fundamentally disagree with you, most of those who commented on the article here do not attack Ukraine, but rather regret the current situation, and I also join this regret. And criticism towards the ruling elite of Ukraine is not about attacking Ukraine. In any case, time will show the correctness of actions and all kinds of integrations there, it will be good in Ukraine, and thank God it will not be good, I think we will help anyway, we will not refuse if the fraternal Ukrainian PEOPLE asks.
  • Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 28 August 2013 14: 07
    +1
    ... I understand you Akim, and I even support you somewhere, it’s very interesting for me to see what you get, and there is a hope that I will wait until Mr. Kars, known to you, writes in his comments: ........ .......... but there was tank production in Ukraine .........
    ... I agree there is pressure, but I don’t see much pressure from the Kremlin, the Russian media are pressing, the Ukrainian ones are beating them off even more, and this gives the impression of simply “unbearable” pressure, and of course the members of the forum are trying, but they can also be understood, the people are worried. I take it easier when you conclude an agreement there, which means that in October our refrigerator plant will sign a contract for the supply of a thin-walled copper tube with Cherepovets, the issue was already decided yesterday at a management meeting, we will support our own manufacturer (it’s just now it will be more profitable there, earlier in Ukraine it was cheaper to buy). So, indeed, I wish you success in the EU FTA, you look and teach us something (it will turn out good, it will not work out - we will not repeat your mistakes) ...
  • Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 18: 58
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    I understand that I will express an opinion that the majority of Russians do not like. But I am already waiting for the agreement on the Association to be signed and ratified. To end this informational pressure. Not because I am an ardent supporter of striving for Europe (rather the opposite) - it makes me neither cold nor hot. The reaction of the Kremlin just hurts me. When you say to yourself "Here you are Du ..." - it sounds self-critical, when they say to you: "You are Du ..." - it is insulting. There are supporters, there are opponents, there are neutral parties. You have a negative attitude towards everyone and this causes the body to have a natural state of defense. You do not understand at the beginning of the rights of your loved one or not, but rush to defend him and are unlikely to give up later (if YOU are not Pavlik Morozov). So it is here. You pounced on Ukraine and not on its individual individuals, but the country for many living here is dear and the reaction is only negative.

    It is unfortunate that the actions of your government do not provoke a negative reaction from you. And the Kremlin does not scold you ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 28 August 2013 19: 08
      -2
      Quote: Semyon Semyonich
      It is unfortunate that the actions of your government do not cause a negative reaction from you.

      It calls. Only the showdown of politicians is reflected in the people. They will lose little from the conflict. 0 more people. And the Kremlin also pushes, because it pushes.
      1. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 23: 33
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        Quote: Semyon Semyonich
        It is unfortunate that the actions of your government do not cause a negative reaction from you.

        It calls. Only the showdown of politicians is reflected in the people. They will lose little from the conflict. 0 more people. And the Kremlin also pushes, because it pushes.

        And how do you think the Kremlin should behave? Intentions change easily and quickly, and opportunities are difficult and long. Therefore, it is easier to prevent than to correct it later ...
  • ksan
    ksan 28 August 2013 23: 44
    +1
    You shouldn't be so Kim! The majority really perceives this "gap" with pain. Perhaps the statements are sometimes harsh, but you understand that this is addressed to your leadership and not to ordinary Ukrainians. I also scold them, but this does not mean that I wish ill to my close relatives living in Ukraine.
    1. Akim
      Akim 29 August 2013 03: 24
      0
      Quote: ksan
      The statements may sometimes be harsh, but you understand that this is addressed to your leadership and not ordinary Ukrainians.

      I absolutely do not compare myself with the authorities, but reproaches go that we are all rogue and that we are biting for a loaf of bread. Absolutely not.
  • michajlo
    michajlo 29 August 2013 00: 25
    0
    Akim UA Yesterday, 07:42
    Good evening, dear Kim!
    In my opinion, you are wrong, or do not notice, that the criticisms and statements of our Russian forum users to us by Ukrainian visitors are more FRIENDLY and critical in terms of helping and explaining the blindness and naivety of the trusting and humble Ukrainian people.

    I, unlike you, here still see more weighted and practical statements from the Russians towards the Ukrainians (not the Kiev-polit-elite)!

    Do not blame me, but ardent patriotism towards "Nenka-Ukraine" can better spend on civil pressure on "Kiev fat cats" in the people's churn, and not here on empty squabble with each other!

    I am sure that all of our "shitty (NOT) friends" are immediately thrown into a cold sweat, just at the thought that all WE are in the post-USSR stop arguing and can UNITE !!!


    And why do I BELIEVE in this!
    1. Akim
      Akim 29 August 2013 03: 20
      +1
      Quote: michajlo
      but ardent patriotism towards "Nenka-Ukraine" can be better spent on civil pressure on "Kiev fat cats" in the people's churn

      I didn’t touch politics on this site, but everyone pulled me into it. Any change in the vector does not automatically mean that the majors will not go unpunished due to accidents, that the miners will not die in kopans, that the bourgeoisie will stop traveling to the Maldives.
      The system from this, unfortunately, will not change.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 28 August 2013 07: 44
    +8
    Friendship is friendship and conscience needs to be .. (flies separately cutlets separately) Come on bye !! We will not persuade anymore ..
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 28 August 2013 09: 03
      +8
      MIKHAN! What is your role in this process? The same as for me and for all the people. Take the position in which the power will put. Do not confuse the policies of Putin and Yanukovych with the interests of the people. Both the first and the second put their selfish interests and the interests of the "family" in the first place. Pans squabble at the slaves to crack their forelocks. We have been in slaves for twenty years. And nothing. Getting used to it. We jump out of our panties to defend the interests of the master. We will continue yapping at each other. So separate the interests of the power flies from the cutlets of the people. Weak? Yes, flies grabbed the cutlets. We are free ... of everything.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 28 August 2013 07: 59
      +6
      DO NOT offend; they are not. When their country falls into two pieces, and most likely it will happen, then we'll talk, but for now we need to put an end to this topic.
      1. S-200
        S-200 28 August 2013 08: 33
        +9
        Quote: Marrying
        When their country falls into two pieces, and most likely it will happen, then we’ll talk ...

        maybe I'm wrong, but there will be more pieces:
        - Western Ukraine
        - Central
        - Eastern
        - Republic of Crimea
        1. Zhenya
          Zhenya 28 August 2013 09: 10
          +1
          I hope you are wrong ... oh how I hope
        2. Hudo
          Hudo 28 August 2013 09: 51
          +1
          Quote: S-200
          maybe I'm wrong, but there will be more pieces:
          - Western Ukraine
          - Central
          - Eastern
          - Republic of Crimea


          The Yugoslavia, which was practically absorbed by the EU, was also previously torn apart by Euro-Vivophores into bleeding bulls - for the convenience of homosexual digestion.
  • makst83
    makst83 28 August 2013 07: 50
    +5
    Ordinary human GREED, that greed which is inherent in HARRY !!! All politicians, businessmen, except for ordinary people, absolutely sincerely believe that it is better to have your own “piece of Ukraine”, which brings two pennies, and maintain sole control over it, than to participate in Eurasian integration processes. This logic has been around for many years, on it, in fact, the independent campaign of 22 was built years ago.
  • Zhenya
    Zhenya 28 August 2013 07: 57
    +6
    Good luck Ukraine (smile and wave the pen). I sincerely hope that Ukraine joins the EU.
  • DMB 1995
    DMB 1995 28 August 2013 08: 01
    +8
    What infuriates post-Soviet politics is that decisions about the fate of the country and its people (applicable to all former republics of the USSR) are made by a small group of local princes and their sponsoring oligarchs acting exclusively in their selfish interests.
    And what about the common people? Yes, put him on a squat, let him flood into a drunken frenzy.
  • Sanamana
    Sanamana 28 August 2013 08: 01
    17
    Let's leave them alone! Let them decide for themselves in Ukraine, and whether it is right or wrong is their sovereign choice! Personally, I am for their integration into the EU. Russia will have more jobs and high-tech industries. And then for so many years they have been pulling the blanket over themselves, tired of hearing about the "friendship of fraternal peoples." If they don't want to be friends, they don't. People who are relatives, friends, both in Russia and in Ukraine, will still remain so.
  • Buran
    Buran 28 August 2013 08: 03
    14
    Can someone explain why we need Ukraine? Only please, without snot about the brotherhood of nations.
    Ukraine is a foreign country, openly hostile and a huge complex of independence.
    So it can still dot the dots. Yes, yes, no, no. Today, Ukraine is very similar to Poland, there is no weight, but there is no measure of ambition. Do you want to live in the EU, forward and with a song, just shut up about the pressure and the evil Russians. Start living like everyone else.
    1. seller trucks
      28 August 2013 14: 56
      0
      Quote: Buran
      Can someone explain why we need Ukraine?


      I’ll try, Ukraine is an important geopolitical territory for the Russian Federation (CU), primarily because of its geographical location, which has access to strategic areas for the CU, as well as buffer protection. In fact, now Ukraine is not becoming a defense, but rather a threat.


      “Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire”
      “... without Ukraine, restoration of the empire, whether on the basis of the CIS or on the basis of Eurasianism, would become a non-viable business”
      “... Ukraine is a key state insofar as it affects Russia's own future evolution”

      Brzezinski Z. The Great Chessboard. The dominance of America and its geostrategic imperatives.
  • Igor39
    Igor39 28 August 2013 08: 07
    +9
    I think economically the TS will only win, and Ukraine will poher production.
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 28 August 2013 08: 10
    +8
    Well, yes, save Europe, cry Turks, Poles and others, because you will not survive such an influx of Ukrainian masters of European-quality repair, fat, gorilka and other consumer goods!
    Clowns and downs continue to steer in Ukraine!
  • savantol
    savantol 28 August 2013 08: 13
    12
    Khan Ukraine .... people feel sorry for the engineers, technical workers, etc. soon they will not be needed and will go look for work in other countries ... Baltic countries 100% example.
    1. Suhov
      Suhov 28 August 2013 09: 02
      +1
      Quote: savantol
      Khan Ukraine .... sorry for the people, engineers, technicians, etc. soon they will not be needed and will go look for work in other countries ... the Baltic countries are a 100% example.

      You have to feel sorry for yourself.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Sirs
        Sirs 28 August 2013 11: 11
        0
        It’s impossible to regret yourself.
        1. Suhov
          Suhov 28 August 2013 11: 20
          0
          Quote: Sirs
          It’s impossible to regret yourself.

          Oooooo ... wassat
      3. Suhov
        Suhov 28 August 2013 11: 39
        +3
        Quote: Sukhov
        You have to feel sorry for yourself.


        Cons inspired by ... yes
  • ivachum
    ivachum 28 August 2013 08: 15
    +5
    Quote: Smac111
    So far, Ukrainian politicians want to get into the EU at any cost, where they, with their goods and no hell are not needed, suffer and suffers the population. Rather, the Ukrainian authorities would have decided who they are with the liberal Europe or Russia


    Yes, let them climb! Only they want to do it at our expense ... There is another trick of the same ... I am a country in the CIS that wants the same - Kyrgyzstan. These people dream of importing Chinese consumer goods into Russia and Kazakhstan duty free. True, unlike Ukraine, they want to do this from inside the TS.
  • Kolya
    Kolya 28 August 2013 08: 19
    11
    The boil has opened! Finally, we learned the essence of the Party of Regions, and Tihipka, among other things, drove Ukraine into a debt hole.
  • ivachum
    ivachum 28 August 2013 08: 31
    +3
    Quote: makst83
    inherent in HARRY !!! All politicians, businessmen, except for ordinary people, absolutely sincerely believe that it is better to have your own “piece of Ukraine”, which brings two pennies, and maintain sole control over it, than to participate in Eurasian integration processes. This logic has been around for many years; on it, in fact, self-propaganda was built 22 years ago.


    And we 22 years ago, they ate all the fat! Interestingly, and in Germany imported Ukrainian fat?
    1. Sochi
      Sochi 28 August 2013 10: 10
      +1
      Do not carry ... Carry from Poland to Ukraine.
  • Kolya
    Kolya 28 August 2013 08: 32
    +6
    But imagine England would now join the Customs Union, do you think the West would not cut trade ties with it? So, dear Ukrainian brothers, stop whining, make a choice - be ready to reap the benefits of your stupid choice!
  • darksoul
    darksoul 28 August 2013 08: 43
    +7
    Are the regions another project of the West? they spoke as about the Russian party, the whole south and east voted for them, and now what? They are leading the people in the direction of such a jo ... whose size is now simply difficult to determine
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 28 August 2013 09: 32
      +2
      Yes, it looks like people were "thrown" again, marketing rules!
  • My address
    My address 28 August 2013 08: 50
    +1
    Ukraine will not go to the vehicle.
    Ukrainians, sorry for the truth, much like children who are silly in transitional age. A bunch of claims; to be realized by virtue of age does not work; they don’t want the family, they think that honey is spread on the side. Of course, the reason is artificial deterrence at this age. We are smarter because of our belonging to a great country, we have fewer complexes. Slept Ukraine with ambassadors such as Zurabov. It is necessary to think how to proceed. Maybe civil rights (Vadim), see the beginning of comments.
  • gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 28 August 2013 08: 51
    -8
    Lose both countries. And essentially. In Ukraine, it will be noticeable faster, but Russia will lose a lot. The behavior of the Kremlin is not far-sighted, it operates with momentary benefits and needs. A lot of theses in the article can be questioned. 1. There is no politics, a clean economy. Nonsense! Quite the contrary. 2. We protect the interests of our citizens. Generally a laugh. Why? 3. We do not distinguish Ukraine, we behave with everyone who is not in the vehicle. Yeah. Stop loads from Germany, China, USA. 4. Exempted product niches will be filled by Russian manufacturers. I want to believe, but it doesn’t work out. Well and so on. Therefore, do not blame everyone for Ukraine.
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 28 August 2013 09: 16
      19
      Here you are brainwashed specifically. Knowledge and awareness are zero. Nobody is going to block the border; the WTO will not allow it. You are told that Ukrainian goods will simply be cleared like all European goods, and this is longer, plus the cost of all kinds of documents confirming the origin, quality, etc. plus you will pay 18% VAT + duty + excise tax, etc. etc. In the EU, this is the same. In short, the cost of Ukrainian goods will increase in the TS by at least a third. An example is in our store Latvian sprats (equivalent) for 2,5-7 USD or next to Russian for 0,8-1,5 USD. Which of them will you buy?
      Or Georgian mineral water 0,5 liters for 2 USD and next to Russian 1,5 liters for 0,5-1 USD.
      I doubt that you produce and grow quality better than Russian, you will say that, but we will modernize everything to the European level, I will answer Russia, too, not in hibernation. An example of a pipe, we have all enterprises installed the most modern equipment that is.
      You just want to turn your back on us to Europe, but sell to Russia according to the old allied agreements, without VAT, duties and excises, as well as searches. This is called: And eat the fish and
      to sit down.
      Trade with Europe ...
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 28 August 2013 09: 54
        -17 qualifying.
        Quote: gecko
        Here you are brainwashed specifically. Knowledge and awareness are zero.

        Are you writing right from the hut, goblin? Parenting zero you are our knowledgeable. You can’t see the fish, and you know firsthand the rest, judging how often you write about it.
        1. Gecko
          Gecko 28 August 2013 10: 02
          +9
          Yes, cormorant, I write from a hut basking near a nuclear reactor, I’m dranking another bottle of vodka, hungry bears are running around. Go something to play the balalaika.
          I send greetings to your godfather Yanuk. The end of the malyav.
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 28 August 2013 13: 55
            -2
            Quote: gecko
            I send greetings to your godfather Yanuk. The end of the malyav.

            Ahhh. Now I understand. Not from the hut, but from the garage.
            1. Gecko
              Gecko 28 August 2013 20: 26
              +2
              Yes, you are my friend oligarch, if for you a house of 180 sq.m on 21 hundred square meters of land is equivalent to a garage.
        2. xan
          xan 28 August 2013 12: 17
          +4
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          Are you writing right from the hut, goblin? Parenting zero you are our knowledgeable. You can’t see the fish, and you know firsthand the rest, judging how often you write about it.

          damn myself, there was a normal exchange of views
          and suddenly on a normal, I would even say an informative post, the gladiator managed it right on the forum
          what is called "it seemed an animal murlo"
          Well, gladiator, will you continue to portray the intellectual, or all the same in the barn?
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 28 August 2013 13: 53
            -1
            Quote: xan
            Well, gladiator, will you continue to portray the intellectual, or all the same in the barn?

            Not. Miss yourself there.
            And about the norm of communication ... That is everyone has their own.
            1. xan
              xan 28 August 2013 16: 01
              0
              Quote: gladiatorakz
              And about the norm of communication ... That is everyone has their own.
              О

              I see, your norm of communication is bestial
              Ukrainian - he is so
              1. gladiatorakz
                gladiatorakz 29 August 2013 11: 48
                -2
                Quote: xan
                your norm of communication is bestial

                With a normal person - normal, with cattle - bestial. To understand and familiar to the opponent.
                Quote: xan
                clear

                you see now...
                Quote: xan
                Ukrainian - he is so

                That is yes. We have a lot of adequate people. Come talk the same way. Without courage booster (internet). You look and tell me how to behave.
    2. Zhenya
      Zhenya 28 August 2013 09: 18
      +6
      I do not minus, I explain.
      1. Our country will lose of course, I do not argue, but it will not be noticeable to the population.
      2. Any economy is tied to politics.
      3. From the USA we periodically stop, and you are worse? White bone? But no! Our countries are partners, business and nothing personal.
      4. Time will tell.
      Nobody blames, if you do not see, everyone wishes you good luck and prosperity.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 28 August 2013 09: 58
        -6
        Quote: Marrying
        Nobody blames, if you do not see, everyone wishes you good luck and prosperity.

        Thank you I am a supporter of the Union with Russia, but my personal opinion under Putin is unlikely to happen. Wrong methods he chooses to create the Union.
        1. Andrew 447
          Andrew 447 28 August 2013 11: 36
          +3
          And with whom of your presidents will this happen or could it happen?
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 28 August 2013 13: 46
            -1
            Quote: Andrey 447
            And with whom of your presidents will this happen or could it happen?

            Under Yanukovych, it could have been. But in this case, all the same, Russia plays a dominant role. On the issue of unification.
        2. ultra
          ultra 28 August 2013 15: 20
          +1
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          I am a supporter of the Union with Russia, but my personal opinion is under Putin

          If you are a supporter of this Union, then Putin is here at what, is he not Russia?
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 29 August 2013 12: 59
            +1
            Quote: ultra
            If you are a supporter of this Union, then Putin is here at what, is he not Russia?

            Maybe I missed something? Maybe in Russia people began to decide something? Or did he suddenly choose the president? Unfortunately, not yet.
    3. avt
      avt 28 August 2013 09: 20
      +9
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      . Yeah. Stop loads from Germany, China, USA. 4. Exempted product niches will be filled by Russian manufacturers. I want to believe, but it doesn’t work out. Well and so on.

      request Well, this is not treated in any way. Everyone is running in a circle, they didn’t believe in the North and South Streams, now you don’t believe that the GDP ordered to expand the freight traffic of the Azov Black Sea basin, even the experience of the Balts is not for you, they also thought - where the Russians would go, nothing, the oil GDP terminal broke through and Ust - I built a lug, silk steel at once, and I assure you - yours, and so on, will definitely be fulfilled. You got the GDP purely concretely. laughing
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 28 August 2013 10: 01
        -4
        Quote: avt
        You got the campaign purely specifically GDP.

        What to do, bliiiin? I won’t sleep tonight ... laughing
        1. Jake danzels
          Jake danzels 28 August 2013 11: 07
          -7
          I threw this comment at the office, the men are neighing, the young ladies are clapping their eyes inexplicably.
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 28 August 2013 11: 19
            +5
            Quote: Jake Danzels
            I threw this comment at the office, the men are neighing, the young ladies are clapping their eyes inexplicably.


            And what kind of reaction did you expect from office plankton with corn fluid instead of brain?
          2. Semen Semyonitch
            Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 19: 20
            +1
            Quote: Jake Danzels
            I threw this comment at the office, the men are neighing, the young ladies are clapping their eyes inexplicably.

            Teaching young ladies how to ride?
    4. Denis fura
      Denis fura 28 August 2013 10: 58
      +5
      I laugh in your face !!!!!!! laughing again to you on points 1. when was the economy apart from politics ???? if you are not with us then what kind of food should we feed you - here you have the economy with politics hand in hand laughing 2. The decision to stop Ukrainian goods is in the interests of Russia, and therefore Russian citizens 3. Ukraine has compared itself with Germany, China and the United States - you can subscribe from the comparison laughing 4. What can Russia not fill out of goods that are imported from Ukraine ?????? eg?????
    5. Sirs
      Sirs 28 August 2013 11: 16
      +1
      I agree it’s not worth blaming Ukraine for everything, everyone is guilty to a different degree. (And especially the wild NubA tribe (Africa)).
  • Whole
    Whole 28 August 2013 08: 56
    +6
    It feels like another "Belovezhskaya Pushcha" - then they drove well through family ties, now they are tearing apart the last that is left - economic ones ... It is clear that this comes from the so-called Ukrainian elite, but again they are being cut for the living. reductions are coming at Roshen factories, but the Russian branches also have the same crap and this is only one enterprise ...
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 28 August 2013 09: 34
      +3
      Yes, it’s not a pity - the products are real, but ...
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 28 August 2013 09: 10
    +2
    go see and come back. and our advice does not explain the obsession in Ukraine, too, are not fools and not small should understand everything themselves
  • nemec55
    nemec55 28 August 2013 09: 16
    +2
    There seems to be no kinship, but Ukrainians remind me of Asians cunning to shit.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 August 2013 13: 49
      +2
      Quote: Samsebenum
      One thing is clear - Russia is not attractive today. That is our problem.

      Unappealing? The fifth economy in the world.
      Quote: Samsebenum
      I consider Ukraine’s withdrawal to the EU as a logical move ...

      There is no logic here, the losses of Ukraine will be HUGE.
    2. Valery 532
      Valery 532 28 August 2013 14: 04
      +2
      I did not expect, but ... Thank you for your kind words.
      Much would be different if the leaders of the Russian Federation thought so. I am sure that the people would be kinder and more understanding. And the problems between us are much smaller. If at all ... Hopefully still to come.
    3. xan
      xan 28 August 2013 16: 10
      +3
      Quote: Samsebenum
      The second is by European standards. And again, an example is at hand.

      Well, how much can you stupid! Well, what examples are at hand? Baltic states or Bulgaria chtoli?
      Only its own national economy, managed independently, is able to make living standards relatively high. And this example is really at hand. And also the fact that for this it is necessary to work hard so that it doesn’t seem enough, but also it is necessary to close the borders for other people's goods with duties, force them to buy their own, and not let migrant workers go abroad, providing them with work in their own country. Is Ukraine capable of this, and even a simple Ukrainian? The answer is obvious. At least Russia has a periodic table. Ukraine already has nothing.
    4. yastr
      yastr 28 August 2013 17: 29
      +2
      And why would we have to attract someone and why is this our problem? :))))))))))))))))))))))))))
      1. xan
        xan 28 August 2013 23: 57
        0
        Quote: yastr
        And why would we have to attract someone and why is this our problem? :))))))))))))))))))))))))))

        for sure!
        You can attract a partner with whom you can work hard and make life much better.
        But Ukraine as a whole and Ukrainians present here have a consumer look with a touch of freebies - they need to give something and they need to do something. Why are Russians such Ukrainians?
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Jake danzels
      Jake danzels 28 August 2013 10: 49
      -5
      And who will populate?
      See the demographic situation in the Russian Federation.
      1. Gecko
        Gecko 28 August 2013 11: 19
        +7
        We will populate returning compatriots from Ukraine :)
        1. Jake danzels
          Jake danzels 28 August 2013 11: 39
          +1
          Yes, you decide :) You are driving us all out, then you are populating again.
          So it turns out some kind of fuss.

          Gecko, and what country are you going to populate with "returned compatriots from Ukraine", I'm just terrified how interesting.
          1. Gecko
            Gecko 28 August 2013 11: 51
            +1
            In your own, or do you think that with the departure of Ukraine to the EU, Russia will cease to exist?
            1. Jake danzels
              Jake danzels 28 August 2013 12: 17
              -2
              You have the USSR flag, but speak for Russia, but oh well.
              No, it will not cease to exist, I’ll even tell you a secret that I am against the EU and against the CU, and not because of antagonism, but because of what the Russian and Belorussian affairs are going on now.
      2. Andrew 447
        Andrew 447 28 August 2013 11: 46
        0
        You better keep track of yours. For the past 20 years, the population has decreased by almost 25% (12 million people)
        1. Jake danzels
          Jake danzels 28 August 2013 12: 06
          0
          93g. - 51,87 million (by the way, in 93 there was a maximum population of Ukraine)
          13 - 45,55 million
          The population decline over the period from 1993 to 2013 (20 years) was approximately −12,18%.
      3. xan
        xan 29 August 2013 21: 07
        +1
        Quote: Jake Danzels
        And who will populate?
        See the demographic situation in the Russian Federation.

        I am always amazed at the Ukrainians issuing such pearls, and considering the Russians zombie media
  • Cormorants
    Cormorants 28 August 2013 09: 38
    +7
    Ukraine all the best. It’s a pity it’s a pity that you quickly forget kindness. If you are stoned Dutch, perverted Norwegians, two-faced Englishmen have become more expensive than blood brothers, then something is wrong with you.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. xan
        xan 28 August 2013 16: 16
        0
        Quote: Samsebenum
        I’ll explain if Ukraine chooses perverts, this can also indicate that we have even more problems.

        This suggests that during the divorce, the country didn’t have its own, and now it’s not necessary to somehow preserve it. Yes, and it became a shame that the country was not the second France, but the second Honduras. And as for the country R as cancer to China, and the gap is growing. And where to put the ambition, it has grown together with nature and is much more harmful than the disease of the same name?
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 28 August 2013 09: 43
    +2
    Quote: Civil
    1. Ukraine is not for sale, there is the same mentality as here.
    2. It is necessary as the USA to stupidly buy the top of the country and, accordingly, they will sign the entry into the CU.
    3. If it was not possible to buy, then in Ukraine a healthy elite is obtained, which means they have nothing to do in the TS.


    1. The whole mentality ends at the doorstep of your own home.
    2. Did not have time - apparently already bought.
    3. The whole elite with round faces means healthy and also very rich.
  • sudaa
    sudaa 28 August 2013 09: 47
    0
    Well, what can I say .... The freebie is over, and as usual the wave begins .... you have to think with whom they are with the Slavs or the Anglo-Saxons ... Even the Kazakhs were smarter ..
    1. hommer
      hommer 28 August 2013 11: 55
      +3
      What it means
      Quote: sudaa
      Even the Kazakhs were smarter ..
      !?

      Please be more correct in your statements.
      We do not consider ourselves dumber than anyone. And Eurasian economic integration was the first to be proposed by Nazarbayev, if that.
      And according to the Sabzh, I know a couple of enterprise managers who can’t wait for Ukraine to have to deliver products to Russia under conditions identical to those of European suppliers.
      Then Kazakh enterprises will simply squeeze out Ukrainian suppliers from the Russian market with the best prices - we are in the TS!
      Expansion of production, new jobs, taxes to the budget and other nishtyaki!
      Rahmet, lads! Good luck in Europe!
      Nothing personal just business.
  • saag
    saag 28 August 2013 09: 49
    +3
    Ukraine struggles to step on someone else's rake in the hope that the handle will fly past the forehead and the Great Ukrainian Dream will come true - a salary in euros and visa-free migrant workers, only you are not called to the European Union, so it's a bummer with the euro, but with the rest of the restrictions as much as you like
  • mazepa
    mazepa 28 August 2013 09: 56
    -1
    And who supported Yanukovych in the presidential elections, after all, Yanukovych is a pro-Russian president. At the elections, he promised to reduce the gas price, visited you many times for negotiations, and he and his colleagues, so what? What is the result, the brotherly country has lowered the price? As you said then, enough to support Ukraine, let it pay like Germany, at market prices? When was anyone talking about the EU at all? You just don’t have to imagine that your economic pressure is the result of Ukraine’s foreign policy. It's just that your businessmen have only one interest - to make more money. Ask LUkashenko, the president of the "brotherly" country.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 28 August 2013 10: 07
      +2
      Quote: mazepa
      Yanukovych is a pro-Russian president.


      Mudag is two-faced !!!



      Quote: mazepa
      In the elections, he promised to lower the price of gas, went to your negotiations many times, and he and his colleagues, so what?



      Do not forget that lousy zavgar did not forget at this very time to grind the Euro-ass with his tongue.
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 28 August 2013 13: 25
        -2
        Huga, but essentially answer?
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 28 August 2013 13: 52
      +1
      Quote: mazepa
      In the elections, he promised to lower the price of gas, went to your negotiations many times, and he and his colleagues, so what?

      He promised that does not depend on him.
      Quote: mazepa
      What is the result, the brotherly country lowered the price?

      What are the reasons for the decline? At least one!
  • grog_bm
    grog_bm 28 August 2013 09: 56
    10
    And you know, my cousin who lives in Kiev told me this thing: "Ukraine is poor because Sberbank took all the gold foreign exchange reserves from Kiev to Moscow during the collapse of the USSR", to which I asked the question "Where is that gold being mined in Ukraine) ) "
    Here you have the answer- Oaths of Mokovity !!!! and moreover, they will be to blame for everything !!!!
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 28 August 2013 10: 26
      12
      Ukraine: We live badly, because the damned "RUSSIANS" live at our expense.
      Russia: Get independence.
      Time has passed ...
      Ukraine: We live badly because the damned "RUSSIANS" do not pay for gas transit at market prices.
      Russia: Well, we turn to market relations, then gas is also at market prices.
      Time has passed ...
      Ukraine: We live badly, because the damned "RUSSIANS" began to sell gas at a high price.
      Russia: If you want cheaper at Russian prices, join the Customs Union.
      Time has passed ...
      Ukraine: We live badly because the damned "RUSSIANS" have stopped buying our sweets and other goods.
      Russia: You identify yourself with the EU, and the attitude to your goods is from the EU.
      Time has passed ...
      Ukraine joined the EU.
      Ukraine: We live badly, because the damned "RUSSIANS" badly dissuaded us from the EU ...
      1. ale-x
        ale-x 28 August 2013 11: 49
        +1
        Bravo, somehow imagined .....
    2. Jake danzels
      Jake danzels 28 August 2013 15: 25
      -2
      Everything is clear with your sister, I sympathize.
  • shurup
    shurup 28 August 2013 09: 59
    +4
    We are waiting for another brawl in Rada. Deputies who have suffered losses will beat deputies who are looking forward to profit.
    Presidents are fighting - deputies have forelocks cracking.
    The people are silent.
  • Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 28 August 2013 10: 04
    +3
    Kind! I would like to say that no matter how the situation with Ukraine is decided, in favor or not in favor of it - understand, our Ukrainian friends, that after integration with the EU, of course, no one will hate you, and no one will cancel the common roots, and friendship will be friendship, but that's just everyone will have his own tobacco now. In the end, no one dictates to you how to and does not teach life and politics, just you (ordinary citizens of Ukraine) are trying to buy a one-way ticket and not our train.
  • 311ove
    311ove 28 August 2013 10: 08
    +3
    What is there already ..... We will wait and see ... Are they really outwitting themselves ??! Then the end of all the anecdotes .. belay
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 28 August 2013 10: 10
    +2
    Everyone understands that ordinary people will suffer from all these manipulations of the ruling elite. Someone asked the Ukrainian people if they want to go to the European Union. Politicians tear their throats, proving the "charm" of the association. Let's see what actually happens.
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 28 August 2013 11: 53
      +2
      Referendum? I'm afraid no one will dare. Cause? It will become obvious that the population will be approximately equally divided, and this is another nail in the lid you know what. There are more contradictions there every year and they are felt more acutely from this.
  • Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 28 August 2013 10: 11
    +3
    Quote: mazepa
    And who supported Yanukovych in the presidential elections, after all, Yanukovych is a pro-Russian president. At the elections, he promised to reduce the gas price, visited you many times for negotiations, and he and his colleagues, so what? What is the result, the brotherly country has lowered the price? As you said then, enough to support Ukraine, let it pay like Germany, at market prices? When was anyone talking about the EU at all? You just don’t have to imagine that your economic pressure is the result of Ukraine’s foreign policy. It's just that your businessmen have only one interest - to make more money. Ask LUkashenko, the president of the "brotherly" country.

    Dear Mazepa, and with what kind of joy should we have reduced the price if your president promised you this? I don’t observe something with Roshen chocolate, for example, at discounted prices! Put the price to the fullest! All your pretentiousness comes down to the fact that it was very convenient to milk the Russian Federation by feeding pacifiers in the form of promises. Blame Ha RF for your troubles is not necessary! not pretty.
    1. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 28 August 2013 13: 28
      -3
      Quote: Dwarfik
      I don’t see something with Roshen chocolate, for example, at discounted prices!

      watching Russian production
      Quote: Dwarfik
      Put the price to the fullest!

      What kind of products do we offer you prices to the fullest?
  • edge
    edge 28 August 2013 10: 22
    +5
    "Huge markets" of Europe at your disposal! " Georgians also shouted, "we will supply wine to Europe," - they are still supplying; so here, who will let them into their bins, they are not needed there. The role of Ukraine is consumerism, not production, and their fate awaits the baltics, bulgaria, romania, hungary and others like that ...
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 28 August 2013 11: 55
      +3
      Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and all whom the hand of the democrats touched ..
  • SPBOBL
    SPBOBL 28 August 2013 10: 26
    +4
    Ukranian politicians drag a dead fall into the abyss of nothingness, and an obvious collapse. Nearby, fraternal people tested by hunger, cold and war ... do not understand ...
  • edge
    edge 28 August 2013 10: 30
    +1
    Europe’s “huge markets” are at your disposal! ” Georgians also screamed, we will sell wine to Europe, they are still selling. Ukraine's consumption is not production, but in the EU it also shines like the Baltic states, Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians and others.
  • Withoutdream
    Withoutdream 28 August 2013 10: 30
    +2
    Quote: Akim
    There will be no ala-ulu. You are not always properly presented with information.

    And to whom is it presented correctly? You? In each country, information is presented in a way and in a way that is beneficial for the country itself. Therefore, in Ukraine there is a lot of noise about the evil and arrogant "Kremlin", and we hear about ungrateful Ukraine. As a result, the people pour mud at each other, and the top of the country counts bills and zeroes in their bank accounts.
  • Denis fura
    Denis fura 28 August 2013 10: 51
    +3
    What are all the same cunning .... we have, the funny thing is that they, as always, with round eyes and bewilderment on their brows are indignant, "Why are they muffling us ???? !!!!!". They want to suck a tit from everywhere, for them, apparently, the whole world seems to be their favorite pig, i.e. want to find as many nipples as possible from where they will suck laughing And again, it just touches their bewilderment that they can’t do it laughing There is a desire to live in Hebrew, but there is no desire to do so laughing
    And just do Ukraine seems to me like Moscow for us, once all Slavs worked in Kievan Rus, and their mentality is appropriate wassat At the same time, ordinary Ukrainians both injected their sons and injected.
  • Xoxoxnumxun
    Xoxoxnumxun 28 August 2013 10: 51
    +4
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    The behavior of the Kremlin is not far-sighted, it operates with momentary benefits and needs.

    Argument.
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    A lot of theses in the article can be questioned. 1. Here there is no politics — a clean economy. Nonsense! Quite the contrary. 2. We protect the interests of our citizens. Generally a laugh. Why? 3. We do not distinguish Ukraine, we behave with everyone who is not in the vehicle. Yeah. Stop loads from Germany, China, USA.4. Exempted product niches will be filled by Russian manufacturers. I want to believe, but it doesn’t work out.

    If this is the argument, then you could just not write your comment.
    And now for the fad.
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    1. Here there is no politics — a clean economy. Nonsense! Rather, the opposite.

    Have you ever heard the expression of Lenin's grandfather "politics is a concentrated expression of economics"? Think from this angle on your words.
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    2. We protect the interests of our citizens. Generally a laugh. Why?

    Why not? In general, the item 2 of the author raises my questions to its adequacy.
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    . We do not distinguish Ukraine, we behave with everyone who is not in the vehicle. Yeah. Stop loads from Germany, China, USA.

    If you are not in the know, then for these countries, completely different conditions at customs apply. This was an exception for the CIS countries and for Ukraine in particular, which it is now losing. Or do you think by chance foreign companies build car factories in Russia? What do you think they do not need jobs at home?
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    4. Exempted product niches will be filled by Russian manufacturers. I want to believe, but it doesn’t work out.

    Why would it all be? Argument. And here's for you to think about - some of your enterprises, realizing the complexity of the situation, decided to simply transfer production or part of it to Russia. For a seed example:
    http://delo.ua/business/quot-sich-perenosit-chast-proi-78062/
    So Russia will have problems, but as it should be at the beginning of the journey. But the road will be overpowered only by the walker.

    Total, the content in your comment the cat cried.
  • Cherdak
    Cherdak 28 August 2013 11: 06
    +4
    To summarize, the main thing that is missing is a reliable quote book. So that in the pictures and it was clearly shown what Ukraine receives from leaving the EU and what it loses from not joining the CU. Then all the conversations will become practical, and will not resemble a kitchen dispute.
  • RBLip
    RBLip 28 August 2013 11: 18
    +5
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    Lose both countries. And essentially.

    laughing immediately visible koment of the representative of the once fraternal republic. I wonder how much Russia will lose. here I am personally (quite an average Russian from the provinces). I don’t eat Roshen’s sweets, I prefer Babaev’s, yak bacon too - Belarusian is very tasty, I don’t drink vodka - vodka with whiskey is to my liking ... nafig me "brotherly" Yatsky people? about which you only hear - theft of gas, fascist marches, infringement at all levels of the Russian language, constant claims about the Black Sea Fleet. they constantly talk about the bad Ukrainian government. and who chose it? from Poland landing in the elections or what? There is only one answer to me - you don’t want to don’t. Russia will live.
    1. Muadipus
      Muadipus 28 August 2013 12: 52
      +3
      Belarusian is very tasty, I don’t drink vodka - vodka with whiskey is to my liking ... what for me "brotherly" Yatsky people? about which you only hear - theft of gas, fascist marches, infringement at all levels of the Russian language, constant claims about the Black Sea Fleet.
      I agree 100% And the lard is really tasty for the Belarusians. and their stew Mmmm. As for food, the inscription "Made in Belarus" is like a red light "We must take" for me. Fortunately, there are shops in St. Petersburg and often markets are arranged for Belarusian goods. I can’t say anything about Ukrainian goods, because what they carry is crap, and what private farms can actually produce, without the use of high technologies in terms of GMOs and all kinds of crap, are not carried.
    2. Maverick78
      Maverick78 28 August 2013 13: 27
      -2
      Have you seen the theft of gas? Do you know how to steal so that it is not shown in mutual settlements? Tell me. There is no abuse of the Russian language in most of Ukraine, but the fact that you need to learn Ukrainian is normal. To know the language of the state in which you live is the norm. Claims under the Black Sea Fleet - to the EBN, which, drunk together with Krachuk and Shushkevich, divided the great country through railway
      Both countries are really losing, they have not just wanted to divide us for so many years, and they are investing good money in it. And they will not do this out of sporting interest.