Military Review

Paradoxes of Ukrainian history

137
Paradoxes of Ukrainian history



Why did I call the material exactly this way, after all, it is now accepted to call the anniversary of the tragic events “monkey's”, but not a holiday? The reservation is made intentionally. 20 years ago, tragic events occurred for the Ukrainian people. He gained independence, and every year he killed his state and himself. In 20 years, from a normal country, Ukraine has become a poor state, populated by an embittered and drunken people, whose only dream is to become independent from their power, and therefore the state.

Today I want to say a big thank you to the Ukrainian separatists for living so well for us. Ukrainians began by living better than in Russia, and then, they reasoned that they were living, at least, not worse than in Russia. Well, now we can talk about the fact that we have good songs. And we are waiting for something to happen in Russia, and be consoled by someone else's grief. Strange people, amazing country. Happy Birthday Ukraine, with the holiday of the Ukrainian people. Gifts to you will be later, they will be sent by mail, in the form of receipts for payment of housing and communal services. Those who want to please themselves in addition, can go to the store and buy fast-growing products for the holiday table. Now we are not living in a “scoop”, with a wooden ruble, but with a paper dollar and an even more paper hryvnia. We already have everything, except for decent work and an appropriate salary. It is ridiculous to say that in the USSR everything was fine, but everything is known in comparison. The USSR was an authoritarian communist state, but not anti-people, not as limitless as the current Ukraine. Most of the modern rulers of Ukraine in the Soviet years would have shone places not so remote, and not warm rooms on the Kiev hills.

Twenty years, like one day. Let us try to run through the past years in order to understand where we started and came to. It would not be a great exaggeration to say that Ukraine’s Independence, as they say today, was “conquered” in order not to feed Russia. 1991 year. Having survived, like rats in the holes of the State Emergency Committee, the Ukrainian non-intellectuals received the coveted freedom of their first president, Leonid Kravchuk. At the same time, the Ukrainian people began to reap its first fruits in the form of a radical fall in the standard of living and the triumph of banditry. The symbol of the "era" - the legendary "kravchuchka" trolley for the transport of goods to the market.

In the 1994 year, amid disappointment with the first results of independence of the “red separatist” Leonid Kravchuk as president of Ukraine, Leonid Kuchma, the “red director”, allegedly in favor of maintaining good-neighborly relations with Russia, replaces. However, no improvement in relations with Russia is observed, Kuchma simply deceived his voter, and instead of the promised pro-Russian policy, he conducted a pro-Western, instead of protecting the interests of the Russians who voted for him, Leonid Danilovich was actively engaged in Ukrainization. It is enough of the fact that the Constitution of Ukraine, which enshrines the status of the state Ukrainian language, was adopted precisely under Kuchma in 1996. Of course, there was no talk about any prosperity of the country and the people.

Time flew by quickly and new elections are scheduled for Ukraine, scheduled for October 31 1999 of the year. Leonid Danilovich can no longer use the map of the pro-Russian politician for the second time, because, firstly, everyone is well aware that he is not pro-Russian, and secondly, he is represented by left-wing politicians Simonenko, Moroz and Vitrenko, who have more chances to intercept the pro-Russian electorate. But Leonid Danilovich was “fabulously lucky,” since in August 1999, the Chechen militants invaded the territory of Dagestan, thereby unleashing the second Chechen war in the Caucasus. A video is being broadcast on Ukrainian TV channels, the leitmotiv of which “Russian children are dying in Chechnya”. The election video clearly explains to everyone that Ukraine’s independence from Russia is better. However, already in 2001, Leonid Danilovich understood the end of pro-Western orientation and Euro-Atlantic integration. The action "Ukraine without Kuchma", the reason for which was the mysterious disappearance of the Ukrainian journalist Georgy Gongadze. Why did you need to make Kuchma "an enemy of the people"? Let's leave the tale that the leaders of the “first Ukrainian Maidan” themselves thought of overthrowing Leonid Danilovich, for commoners, it is different. Under Kuchma, talk began about the creation of a Common Economic Space and a Customs Union with Russia.

Smoot continues. 2004 year. The so-called "Orange Revolution" against Kuchma, demonized with the help of the West, and his "heir" Yanukovich. According to the results of the third round of voting, the anti-Russian President of Ukraine is the first to win, in words and in deeds. With each of his cell Russophobia and ... frankly weak politician in every sense of Yushchenko. However, who in Ukraine wanted to notice it? People with sterilized propaganda with brains, in principle, cannot see and think for themselves. "At once we are rich, we are not under the cover." The show is played according to all the laws of the genre.

Today it is foolish to deny the fact that in reality, even in the second round of voting, Yushchenko, and not Yanukovych, should have won. For the first time in the years of independence, the majority of Ukrainians vote against the pro-Russian proclaiming candidate. Ukraine is "baked". Long-term anti-Russian propaganda makes itself felt. Ukraine is no longer Russia.

However, what a real pro-Ukrainian president has become is clear from the first days of the accession of Viktor Yushchenko. Firstly, it is the ardent nationalist. Secondly, it is a western puppet. Thirdly, it is nepotism, corruption and absolute inadequacy in everything. Begins a five-year hohlosracha. There is no other way to name the events from 2005 to 2010. One mace, a thousand candidates who see themselves as real hetmans of Ukraine. Little Ukrainians who survived the Maidan seat groan: "Victor and Julia - make peace for the ideals of the revolution." Actual slogans "Do not zrad Maidan." Where there! When sawing dough and for access to the power sawmill of power, any Ukrainian ideals fade into the background.

A few years later, the opponents of the “Maidan” finally extended their hands to reconciliation. Viktor Yushchenko "puts" Viktor Yanukovych in the chair of the Prime Minister of Ukraine. Everything is very simple. It's not even about money, but the fact that for Viktor Andreevich Yanukovych was not a competitor. Deal with the enemy in Ukraine is more preferable than an alliance with the same as you. He compares his ex-girlfriend to a "bitch who picked up fleas." She snaps a charming snake smile in response to Putin's pun about Mazurik, who stole the premier's plane. Mazurik is Yushchenko, Bitch is Tymoshenko. The inscriptions "Forgive us Lenya" appear on the streets. We are talking about the "overthrown ex-president Kuchma", and not the mayor of Kiev, nicknamed Leon Cosmos. Nicknames in Ukraine replace politicians names, positions. Symptomatic? What a respect for power here!

Ukrainians with enthusiasm and sobbing watch television freedom of speech, which, with the filing of "prisoner of conscience" from Russia Savik Shuster, cloned up to three independent projects. Finally, Ukraine began to produce rating television shows! In Russia, “House-2” with Ksenia Sobchak as the leading, in Ukraine something similar, with leading politicians of the country. The essence is one. Participants crap at each other and crap at Ukraine. Fortunately, and perhaps to the misfortune, it did without victims, suicides and trials. Questions of honor in Ukraine are few who touch. However, there were real tragedies, but the Ukrainians somehow reacted indifferently to them. We are talking about the murders of Kravchenko, Kirpa and Kushnaryov. Of course, the three killed former high-ranking officials cost less than one missing Gongadze journalist.

What passions, what experiences tormented Ukrainian society during the Orange Troubles! Everything was so serious, as if the fate of the life and death of the state was being decided. But what is interesting, in the end, absolutely everything turned out as it should, as external forces wanted. Where it was necessary, there the Ukrainians entered, where it was not necessary, they did not go there. It turns out, in vain the Ukrainians were worried about the fate of the country? The main thing is that in all cases Ukraine has achieved its own weakening in political and economic terms. Everything that happened resembled the floundering of an inexperienced traveler, who climbed into the swamp and instead of quietly waiting for the decision of his fate, fluttered so much that he was sucked into the quagmire at the very most.

Elections 2010 of the year in Ukraine were uncontested. After the Orange Power, the Yanukovich team had to “try hard” to win the elections with a dubious margin of a little over 3% of votes. I don’t think that those who say that his “pro-Russian” nature was the main asset of Yanukovych are right. Twenty years after the collapse of the USSR, two decades of anti-Russian propaganda, people no longer remember the Soviet country and do not know modern Russia, but they feel the price of Russian gas in their own skin. Indeed, the voter of eastern Ukraine was specifically sick of all other aspirants to the power of a nationalistic orientation, but the biggest contribution to the victory of Viktor Yanukovych was the promise of lower gas prices, which was associated in the head of the philistine with supposedly “good relations” with the Russian leadership.

But, Yanukovych had no good relations with the Kremlin, no, and never will be. It’s not even about Yanukovych and what he thinks. Ukraine has traveled that station when it is possible to get quite material benefits at the expense of beautiful and promising toasts for the “friendship of peoples”. Moscow is well aware of the price of all Ukrainian words, promises and agreements, therefore all concessions are made exclusively on an advance payment. It should be noted that the “Kharkov agreements” of Yanukovych were not caused by the fact that he had sympathy for the Black Sea Fleet Russia in Sevastopol, and the fact that to stabilize the Ukrainian economy needed a discount on gas. In this sense, Yanukovych is as pro-Russian as the majority of the population of Ukraine, who wants to convert the independence of the state into hard currency. Well, for the fact that the price of Russian gas for Ukraine has risen to exorbitant heights, I must say one more big thanks to all the actors in Ukrainian politics. In the struggle for access to cheap cheese, everyone pushed themselves together into a mousetrap. It should be noted that they shoved each other a lot of fun. But this whole booth resembled a children's game, when after the next fun one chair is removed and a participant who does not have time to take a seat leaves the game. First, Yushchenko dropped out. Then Tymoshenko left. Today on a chair solemnly sits Yanukovych. It was only painfully “golden” for Ukraine.

We are accustomed to believing what sociological polls show us. By them we judge the degree of patriotism of the population of Ukraine, the readiness to defend their country, but we forget that the sale of independence has long been accomplished in the heads of little Ukrainians during the orange period when independence was exchanged for joining the EU and NATO. In addition, more than five million Ukrainians have already sold their “love for Ukraine” with their feet, having moved to “abroad”. Even more people from escaping from Ukraine are held back only by the fact that not everyone is privately accepted to the beds, construction sites and bars of Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal ...

Sovereignty for Ukrainians has lost its sacred meaning, and the price for which it can be sold is important for them. What attracted Ukrainians to the EU? Mowed lawns, well-groomed streets, medicine, education, pensions and salaries in the 500 euro area! Tell me at the mercy, about what kind of patriotism do we hear every minute? After the advertising to the European Union, which the Ukrainian nationalists made during the five years of their rule, as well as their forerunners, one must be a complete idiot to remain faithful to their country. If someone is eager to take offense at my words, then he can do as much as he pleases, only it is, after all, not in words, but in fact, which has its real confirmation.

What is modern Ukraine, if you go beyond abstract reasoning? The corrupt state. Discredited power. Separated people, where on the one hand live Muscovites, and on the other Bandera. Lack of national leader. Lack of nationwide ideas. The absence of something for which you can feel pride, and not shame! In Ukraine, there is neither Lukashenka, nor Gaddafi, nor Assad for whom the people and the army can go. Does anyone think that people will fight for certain characters that have no real content? Yes, there are fanatics in Ukraine for whom “Ukraine will need a trinket,” but their number is not even a few percent. Moreover, it is impossible to call them defenders of the state, because it is material for pogroms and ethnic cleansing, and not the protection of the state and order. So the key question for Ukraine is not to defend it, but how to attach it, with greater profit for itself. It is a matter of time and circumstances that the absolute majority of Ukrainians want to “sell” the Ukrainian independence of Russia. Today is bargaining. As in the "Oriental Bazaar" are called transcendental prices.

Russia wants to include Ukraine in its composition? Please, just first let them trim the lawns, pave the streets, make medicine, education and a salary in 1000 euros. Such is the logic of the “little Ukrainian”. But all this is already spoken not only on the Internet forums, but also by politicians at the official level. Are the conversations about gas prices, about the benefits of joining the CU and CES on a sober analytical calculation? Not at all. Do we rarely hear such words: Belarus entered the Union State with Russia and how much gas is there? What is the real price of all these flags on Independence Day? Exactly as much as the material of which they are made.

This is the result of our independence, twenty years of brainwashing and upbringing of Ukrainian patriotism. The funny thing is that neither Europe nor Russia did not intend to, and are not going to include Ukraine in their composition, let alone cut lawns here and pay euros to 500 Ukrainians. This is the myth that Ukrainian politicians and their overseas consultants gave birth to in order to fool the people of 20 for years.

Ukrainians still believe mossy tales that Russia without Ukraine is nothing. That it will not survive, fall apart, will be occupied ... but as time goes on, Russia does not disappear like a haze, but on the contrary, increases its influence in the world, increases its military and economic potential. On the contrary, the Ukrainians themselves still believe that by certain magical passes of the hands, by choosing a more intelligent politician, one can save the country and avoid its bankruptcy. An intelligent and responsible politician in Ukraine will not be in the near future. The Ukrainian will not vote for him, because everything that he will say and offer to this person will not please him. A clever and responsible politician for Ukraine is a marginal and Ukrainophobe.

Can Russian be a President of Ukraine who does not hide his Russianness, speaks Russian, does not profess any Ukrainian values, but has a sober mind. Not pro-Russian, namely Russian! Do you believe in the coming of such a person to power in Ukraine? Me not! The test for political maturity failed.

Like all 20 years of independence, we all care about, when will this booth end? When Ukraine stops rushing, get rid of the illusion, and finally, it will understand that it must solve all its problems independently, without Russia, America, Europe, and now China, which, with the suggestion of a number of experts, has become our next strategic partner. With the least need to worry about the fate of Russia, to dream of Europe, and begin to restore order at home. Unfortunately, I am a pessimist. Ukrainian ideology and people practicing it are not capable of finding constructive solutions. What to do? The conclusion suggests itself. Ukrainian ideology is destructive and leads to the destruction of any statehood, the degradation of the people, and therefore it should not be in a new country.

I am aware that what I have written will cause people to be hurt, turning into hatred and a desire to finish me off. But someone in this country has to tell the truth. We lurked to the extreme point for all the years of the so-called independence. Our lies seem to many saints, hiding under the guise of love for the Ukrainian people. But there is no holiness in this lie, this lie is mean and humiliates the people of Ukraine. We must know the truth about ourselves, about who we have become and who we could become. Ukraine can give the world great sons, scholars, discoverers, warriors, and not masters of pottery and cross-stitching. We do not need to magnify the lack of talent, we have Gogol, who alone will be enough, to be proud of our literature. We had Sikorsky, Korolenko, Korolev, Bulgakov and they must be returned in order to return themselves, their history, and not to dodge 20 for years in search of a non-existent one. The Ukrainian is not a national minority, not a Native American, not a Negro, who needs protection and is unable to do without humiliating preferences and privileges. So who actually insults the Ukrainians, their language, their talents? Think for yourself.


Ps. I want to emphasize that the small Ukrainian is not alone in his desire to "sell the country for sausage." There are similar people in Russia. Have you ever heard the songs with these words: stop feeding the Caucasus? But they are exactly like those that were sung in Ukraine at the end of the 80s. Not many people in Ukraine differ from the Russians, it’s just that the main propaganda blow was directed at those who wanted to weaken their geopolitical rival, split the Russian Empire, creating Ukrainian separatism, destroy the USSR and create 15 independent states. But if, already in Russia, they started talking about “sausage”, it means that the opponents of all-Russian unity awakened their appetite to split, divide, and dominate.
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  1. Civil
    Civil 26 August 2013 07: 51 New
    +1
    2 years ago I was in Odessa, so I woke up and went out into the street in the morning, and everything was covered with Ukrainian flags, as if they were occupied during the night .... it was very unpleasant
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 26 August 2013 08: 23 New
      +8
      My dear, and with what flags should the streets hang? I understand the desire of the Russians to see Ukraine pro-Russian. This is natural. But sometimes there are such comments that you involuntarily think about the goals of an endless series of articles about Ukraine. I am not talking about all the articles, but some do not contribute to strengthening good neighborly relations between Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 26 August 2013 08: 40 New
        28
        Quote: xetai9977
        e. I am not talking about all the articles, but some do not contribute to the strengthening of good-neighborly relations between Ukraine and the Russian Federation.

        Yes, there were good articles before, but the result is deplorable. Russia reaches out and spit in it. Tired of wiping their hands.
        1. tomas.09
          tomas.09 26 August 2013 11: 20 New
          +6
          Yes, and the truth, and that we all climb to them and climb? Where Ukraine does not kiss, everywhere ... oops. Let them live on their own. Think about it !? They will come back, but still do not need it !!!!
          1. Nicholas C.
            Nicholas C. 26 August 2013 12: 06 New
            +5
            Surprisingly, the independent enthusiasm for attacking and discrediting the TS and its member countries. However, Kazakhstan, with almost three times less population, has a larger economy than the Ukrainian one. Economy of Belarus with a population of FIVE! times less without natural and climatic resources, in contrast to Ukraine, only three times less. At the same time, there is not even a question of the comparability of social security, the level of salaries, the quality of education and health care, etc. Even our fools build roads in the vehicle better (the word “better” in this case is even superfluous in relation to Ukraine, since all the road surfaces recently built on Nenka, they say, were washed away, apparently, with tears). And there is no such disgrace with trains.

            And this despite the fact that they gave Ukraine from the whole USSR comrade Khrushchev and personally dear Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev. With such and such reserves, yes, eat everything and continue throughout the body.

            I apologize for the left link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
            Svidomo Ukrainians gave it to me a couple of days ago with a completely opposite purpose.

            PS. By the way, in the same place, Belarus' GDP in 2012 grew by $ 8 billion. This, offhand, is 15%. What fall in Belarus svidomity mutter?
            1. KazaK Bo
              KazaK Bo 26 August 2013 14: 55 New
              +3
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              Surprisingly, the enthusiasm for attacking and discrediting the CU and its member countries is surprising.

              Sorry, I want to clarify - WHOSE ENTHUSIASM did you mean, the Ukrainians-hard workers, who are the majority in the center, in the south and in the east of the country ... or Ukrainians - "zapadentse" in, who due to lack of work and crushing them "toads , just know the language to scratch against the vehicle? Or maybe you mean the Ukrainian media ... which are even more corrupt for grants from AMER than we have, in RUSSIA? "
            2. Essenger
              Essenger 26 August 2013 15: 55 New
              +2
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              Surprisingly, the enthusiasm for attacking and discrediting the CU and its member countries is surprising. However, Kazakhstan, with almost three times less population, has a larger economy than the Ukrainian one.

              Hello, Nikolai.
              I also wrote about this. But hardly the merit of the vehicle.
          2. crest 57
            crest 57 26 August 2013 13: 41 New
            +1
            tomas.09 Today, 11: 20 ↑ New


            Yes, and the truth, and that we all climb to them and climb? Where Ukraine does not kiss, everywhere ... oops. Let them live on their own. Think about it !? They will come back, but still do not need it !!!!


            "Yes! That's right! Let them live on their own, then they will crawl."
            I already heard these screams in the late 80s, only then it applied to the countries of Eastern Europe (Warsaw Pact). We (then still the USSR) didn't need them, but the USA, for some reason, needed them. Now it's Ukraine's turn. And tomorrow? You will shout "Why do we need these Far Easterners, or Siberians, or Ryazans, Smolyans?"
            1. Zopuhhh
              Zopuhhh 26 August 2013 15: 42 New
              -1
              Many who have been fed recently?
          3. KazaK Bo
            KazaK Bo 26 August 2013 15: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: tomas.09
            Think about it !? They will come back, but still do not need it !!!!

            ... they won't come to their senses ... The poison of pro-Western propaganda has already done its job ... Ukraine lived on debt (the national debt is 96% of GDP) ... it got used to "gratuitousness" and cannot do otherwise ... that's why and demand great material benefits from the CU and the CES in exchange for what they still think ...
            Now there is a big bargaining - Ukraine put itself up for auction - on the one hand the EU, on the other RUSSIA! Who will give more of these benefits! After all, they understand that they will fly by in this trade ... The EU also has experience of trade ... and promises Ukraine "thirty-three boxes of joy and happiness", but only in the future ... they just get it, this is happiness, individuals, in mostly officials. From Russia, this bureaucracy, they demand all the benefits at once ... forward a hundred years ... and only all at once! What the majority of manufacturers will get was demonstrated quite recently in the form of the work of Russian customs officials, who declared Ukrainian goods "critical ..."
            But none of the Russian leadership "shouted" at our customs ... this is evidence that it was not an initiative of the customs ... It was a bell! But apparently he was never heard in the upper echelons of power in Ukraine. Or they hope that ... having wrung their hands, listing to the world all the troubles of the Ukrainian people, starting with the Polish economy and shouting curses towards the Russians, for the fact that they were offended when they were "spat in the face" ... Ukrainian politicians will be able to push our benevolence and "sacrifice" for the suffering of the Ukrainian people.
            I’m afraid that this will not happen anymore ... Friendship is friendship ... but the tobacco will only be apart ... each has his own!
        2. Barrel
          Barrel 27 August 2013 23: 32 New
          +1
          Russia reaches out like a pimp to a lost girl. Thank you, this is not necessary.
          And at the expense of brainwashing, let’s look at least at this site: all articles are divided into 3 types (America is evil, Russia is a superpower, and articles on how Ukraine lives badly). There are no other points of view. I have not heard anything positive about Ukraine here, but I’ll break your stereotypes, we live and live quite normally. Yes, power is the oligarchs. BUT YOU ARE ALSO!
      2. Egoza
        Egoza 26 August 2013 08: 51 New
        +5
        Quote: xetai9977
        My dear, and with what flags should the streets hang?

        Flags of the Ukrainian SSR, if an "independent" state was created for the people!
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 26 August 2013 09: 15 New
          0
          O beautiful Elena! So why don't you have the flags of the RSFSR? And where did you see any state "created for the people"?
          1. alex13-61
            alex13-61 26 August 2013 09: 33 New
            24
            Quote: xetai9977
            And where did you see some kind of state created for the "people"?

            I not only saw it - I lived in it ... and it was: free education, medicine, housing. not everything in it was perfect (because there is no ideal) and this state has passed a difficult path of formation ... but still this state was for the people, and not for a handful of crooks and scammers.
            What was it called - write ???
            1. Simon
              Simon 26 August 2013 10: 38 New
              +8
              Yes, the state was good, it was respected and feared all over the world, strong and powerful, but they helped us ruin it. And now it remains to recall him and bite his elbows.
            2. Horst78
              Horst78 26 August 2013 13: 47 New
              +3
              100500 good fully support born in the USSR
      3. Muadipus
        Muadipus 26 August 2013 10: 42 New
        +7
        My dear, and with what flags should the streets hang?
        Yes, it is clear that the state flag and their right. it's not about that. And that still in the subconscious, somewhere in a dream, sits the feeling that everything around is a dream. This summer I was in Odessa - a wonderful city, almost completely Russian-speaking, I felt very comfortable there. Really forget there that you are in another country. and here
        so woke up went out into the street in the morning, and everything is covered with Ukrainian flags,
        I would curse too. Moreover, I associate the yellow-blue flag with anti-Russian sentiments, with the Orange Revolution, etc. etc.
      4. smersh70
        smersh70 26 August 2013 10: 49 New
        +1
        Quote: xetai9977
        involuntarily you think about the goals of an endless series of articles about Ukraine.



        yes on the black list wassat together with dreams and Kazakhs ..... laughing
  2. a52333
    a52333 26 August 2013 08: 04 New
    +2
    The problem is also that in Russia there is no consensus on how to build relations with Ukraine. Nobody wants to let go to the EU, but they also don’t want to make efforts \ money for Ukraine’s integration into the CU. But the situation is getting worse day by day. Western propaganda works every day, the economy of Ukraine is weaker. Genocide is gaining momentum. And the Russian Federation needs to make a difficult choice, or it’s difficult now, or tomorrow it’s a disaster.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 26 August 2013 08: 11 New
      17
      Quote: a52333
      The problem is also that in Russia there is no consensus on how to build relations with Ukraine.

      How is it not? Everything that could be offered to Ukraine, Russia offered and even more. The problem is that the personal motives of Ukrainian officials are higher than economic reason. Plus, propaganda does its job. You speak to them for the TS, and they are in response, but why Belarus and Kazakhstan were not rich. But they speak for the EU, and it doesn’t matter that a number of countries having joined the EU have become poor. Russia for them, such a country that occupied them and it doesn’t matter, but one problem is Kievan Rus wink
      In short, let them roll into their EUs, let them sip on the most I do not want. Then they will yell in surprise, but that the Russian brothers are not helping us. In the bath of them all.
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 26 August 2013 08: 21 New
        12
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Then they will yell in surprise, but that the Russian brothers are not helping us. In the bath of them all.

        Sasha, they’re already yelling: Political consultant Vladimir Granovsky - “Ukraine has all the possibilities, the level of education of the population quite allows us to take a leading position in the post-Soviet space. We must build a modern integration model following the example of the EU, Kiev must claim the status of another capital, we must demand that all regulatory and controlling bodies of the future economic union in Eurasia be in Kiev. Kiev has all the possibilities in a crisis situation to declare the ideology of unification or integration, seize this initiative from Putin and offer Kiev, as best historical, geographical, so that this integration takes place not in Moscow, but in Kiev. “Ukrainians need to realize that they have never been in the Russian Empire or in the Soviet Union on the sidelines, they have always been on the front lines.” Holiday senility continues ...
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 26 August 2013 08: 38 New
          +5
          Quote: Tersky
          we must demand that all regulatory and controlling bodies of the future economic union in Eurasia be in Kiev.

          Demand will fall off wassat
          Quote: Tersky
          Kiev has every opportunity in a crisis situation to declare the ideology of unification or integration, to seize this initiative from Putin

          Dude didn’t just get stoned there, something more serious. In debt, as in silk, but ..... laughing And they still talk about the imperial ambitions of Russia.
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 26 August 2013 12: 28 New
            +3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Dude didn’t just get smoked there, something more serious

            The mushrooms are quite picky, or in Afghanistan, on a trip to vacation, I wandered ..
      2. Karabin
        Karabin 26 August 2013 09: 00 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Everything that could be offered to Ukraine, Russia offered and even more.

        Poorly offered. The offer should be one that cannot be refused. But for this, other forces must rule Russia. These are too shallow and silver-loving. Super tasks are too tough for them.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 26 August 2013 09: 37 New
          +2
          Quote: Karabin
          The offer must be such that it is impossible to refuse

          This is no longer an offer; it is blackmail or hegemony.
          Quote: Karabin
          But for this, other forces must rule Russia.

          Who, for such forces?
          Quote: Karabin
          Super tasks are too tough for them.

          Who will we put ???????????????????? It’s easiest to talk, specifically name a surname.
          1. Karabin
            Karabin 26 August 2013 09: 52 New
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            it is blackmail or hegemony.

            And this is as you please.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Who, for such forces?

            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Who will we put ???????

            New reds. They are not yet, but they will certainly be. Do you really think that you or I, or all together, can we put someone in?
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            The easiest to wobble

            By and large, everyone here is doing this. And you including.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 26 August 2013 10: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: Karabin
              New reds.

              Ah, the new reds and again the warrior against the whites, it was already passing.
              Quote: Karabin
              . Do you really think that you or I, or all together, can we put someone in?

              I wrote, say the name, but you don’t have it, just blah blah and that’s it.
              Quote: Karabin
              And you including.

              Yes, but I try not to scream that I need to put others and whom others ... the devil knows request Koment for the sake of koment, does not roll
              1. Karabin
                Karabin 26 August 2013 21: 39 New
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Surname, but you don’t have it

                What a restless you, Alexander. Yes please. Popov Vasily Petrovich. Who is this, ask? Assistant, some mayor, retired officer (coincidences are considered random) wink . Brought you to Berezovsky and Voloshin Putin out of nowhere. Why is my PVP fundamentally worse than GDP? Who knows, maybe after the first term we will sing PVP odes throughout the forum. But seriously, of those who are at the hearing, I can offer Glazyev and Boldyrev.
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Aha, the new reds and again the warrior against the whites

                Well, why so simplify. The question of a single Russian space can and must be resolved without blood. And where are your posts in white? As far as I know, the independence of Ukraine was not part of White’s plans.
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                I try not to scream that I need to put others, but whom others ... the devil knows Koment for the sake of koment, does not roll

                Where did you see koment for the sake of koment? I expressed my disagreement with your point of view and in a very concise form explained why.
            2. Far East
              Far East 26 August 2013 11: 58 New
              +3
              Quote: Karabin
              By and large, everyone here is doing this. And you including.

              good good good bully
        2. seller trucks
          26 August 2013 09: 51 New
          +2
          Quote: Karabin
          Poorly offered.



          Yes. okay, bad, BB at the last meeting, in Sevastopol, invited Yanukovych to raise the gross product to 6% after joining the CU, I have no doubt that it would be so
          1. revnagan
            revnagan 26 August 2013 10: 32 New
            +5
            Quote: seller trucks
            Yes. okay, bad, BB at the last meeting in Sevastopol invited Yanukovych to raise the gross product to 6% after joining the CU,

            He didn’t correctly suggest: if these 6% were personally to Yanyk’s pocket ... our prez would run to the TS.
          2. Ivan Sirko
            Ivan Sirko 26 August 2013 13: 47 New
            -2
            Manka Bond also offered Zheglov to raise ... the gross product, but Zheglov refused. stop
        3. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 26 August 2013 10: 34 New
          +4
          Do you propose to introduce tanks to Kiev?)
          "With a gun and a kind word, you will achieve much more than just a kind word." (c) Al Capone
        4. Moon
          Moon 26 August 2013 11: 00 New
          +9
          Karabin, the Ukrainian elite is simply not in a position to appreciate "proposals from which it is impossible to refuse." She "can give up" everything. This is the elite of stolen stalls, which have stolen not even factories, but the country, but thinks on the scale of a stall. For her, Washington, Brussels and Moscow are the same racketeers who are able to provide a roof and the choice is made in favor of outwardly physically more powerful ones, about whom the market says that their “roof” has not yet leaked. The Ukrainian elite has no understanding of state interests. Understanding of their own interests - at the level of a monkey, wearing a tailcoat and confident that she is now a member of the House of Lords.

          Rostislav Ishchenko, Director of the Center for System Analysis and Forecasting, political scientist. Kiev
      3. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 26 August 2013 11: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        In short, let them roll into their EUs, let them sip on the most I do not want. Then they will yell in surprise, but that the Russian brothers are not helping us.


        Adequate and now they understand everything, but Svidomo, again love Moses’s hand will see in their impoverishment and it does not matter that they were discouraged, Moscow is always to blame for them.
        1. FATEMOGAN
          FATEMOGAN 26 August 2013 11: 17 New
          +5
          I hope that it will still be something like this .....


      4. KazaK Bo
        KazaK Bo 26 August 2013 15: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Everything that could be offered to Ukraine, Russia offered and even more.

        ... and he will also offer ... but not to the Ukraine that exists within its current borders ... but to that part of it that understands the mutually beneficial good-neighborly relations with Russia ... and that will work ... produce material values ​​... and not that part of Ukraine, which after the "break" will, most likely, take a new name - GALITCHINA and which "flies" more around Geyrop than works in the fields and factories ...
  3. slaventi
    slaventi 26 August 2013 08: 22 New
    +4
    Ukrainians still believe in moss tales that Russia without Ukraine is nothing. That she will not survive, fall apart

    Russia will be able to survive without Ukraine, at least there are resources and nuclear weapons, but Ukraine will definitely not survive. It would be good if the main part of Ukraine was reunited with Russia, and Galicia "Bendera" with the European Union.
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 26 August 2013 09: 02 New
      -5
      Quote: slaventi
      Russia can survive without Ukraine

      Disabled people also survive. Someone without arms, some without legs.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 26 August 2013 09: 38 New
        +5
        Quote: Karabin
        . Who is without arm, who is without leg

        And they live without a hand, but a hand without an organism rots.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Dazdranagon
        Dazdranagon 26 August 2013 14: 06 New
        +1
        Yes, no, here the comparison better rolls "a man without hair lives perfectly." It LIVES! It does not survive. laughing
  4. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 26 August 2013 08: 39 New
    +7
    Beautiful, truthful, emotional, sincere ...
    Thank you.
    hi
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 26 August 2013 10: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      Beautiful, truthful, emotional, sincere ...

      "Ukraine has not yet died" !!!!
      1. seller trucks
        26 August 2013 17: 27 New
        -1
        Quote: AK-47
        "Ukraine has not yet died" !!!!


        “Now this is not dead - scuko, zrada and vile”

        "The Age of Stillborn" Gleb Bobrov, Lugansk
  5. JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 26 August 2013 08: 49 New
    +7
    The article is calm, without "strain". Logic is power though.
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 26 August 2013 09: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: JIaIIoTb
      Logic however is power.

      I agree. But Vera is stronger.
      1. IRBIS
        IRBIS 26 August 2013 13: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Karabin
        I agree. But Vera is stronger.

        Serduchka?
  6. shurup
    shurup 26 August 2013 08: 50 New
    +1
    States are self-sufficient or puppet.
    About this you will explain in your ear in the nearest bank.
    An attempt to become self-puppet is akin to economic masturbation when there is pleasure, but no result.
  7. Karabin
    Karabin 26 August 2013 08: 51 New
    +8
    What can I say. I will repeat myself. The Petlyurovskoe, with the peculiarities of modern times, a misunderstanding in Ukraine was too long. It's time to come "red" already. But there are no “Reds” either in Moscow or in St. Petersburg. There is the Provisional Government, headed by New Kerensky, and he does not give a damn about how 20 years Russian Ukrainians make "little Ukrainians" ready to sell "the country for sausage." No, and in the near future there will be no state policy in Russia aimed at the benefit of all-Russian unity.
    Have you ever heard songs with these words: stop feeding the Caucasus?

    It was necessary. From marginal mouthpieces. But also I heard that Allah gives money to the Caucasus.
  8. Silhouette
    Silhouette 26 August 2013 08: 52 New
    +2
    Well done, Sergei! Shake your hand! Great stuff. I enjoyed reading your materials on the site "However", but I feel you didn't fit in there .... Keep it up! Bend your line. Silhouette.
    1. seller trucks
      26 August 2013 09: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: Silhouette
      With pleasure I read your materials on the site "However"


      Lunev, has its own resource, "Ruska Pravda", initially it is a project of the "mythical" Andrey Vajra, just like alternatio.org, I have been following these projects for a long time, since he is not indifferent to the fate of Little Russia.
  9. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 26 August 2013 08: 53 New
    +3
    Ukraine is an example of what is impossible to sit on two chairs. It was necessary to choose smart or beautiful for a long time. The window of opportunity has almost closed - if tomorrow Ukraine enters the EU, then the day after tomorrow the gas pipe stops pumping gas - there is an alternative route. If tomorrow Ukraine enters the TS, then the day after tomorrow it will close the credit line. In the future, very serious political upheavals loom with the possible collapse of the state.
  10. Kolya
    Kolya 26 August 2013 09: 24 New
    +4
    We were destined to observe the displacement of the indigenous Slavic people from their land. European politicians know that as soon as the curtain opens, the majority of able-bodied Ukrainians will rush to Europe, mainly to the empty eastern countries of Eurob for the same reasons, and will dissolve there. Plants in Ukraine will be left without "working hands". The business will bring thousands of Asian slaves to factories as well as Chinese. The remaining disabled population of Ukraine will not be able to "stand" against the newcomers, nor devour the cult, nor the order. What Asians are doing in Russia will be much worse in Ukraine. Ukrainian pensioners will be robbed and killed as it was in Chechnya with the Russians. Therefore, if Ukraine nevertheless joins the Euro, then the Ukrainian people will lose their land. Regrettable ...
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 26 August 2013 09: 34 New
      +5
      Quote: Kohl
      We had a fate to watch

      And what else remains to be done in Canada.
  11. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 26 August 2013 09: 31 New
    +2
    Quote: Civil
    2 years ago I was in Odessa, so I woke up and went out into the street in the morning, and everything is covered with Ukrainian flags,

    Quote: Egoza
    Flags of the Ukrainian SSR, if an "independent" state was created for the people!
    - because there is no independent state like Ukraine ... yeah! hi -and never was.
  12. Ivan Sirko
    Ivan Sirko 26 August 2013 09: 34 New
    -4
    A smart and responsible politician for Ukraine is a marginal and Ukrainophobe.

    The author is a genius, with an easy movement of the hand of all marginalized and Ukrainophobic people he made smart and responsible politicians. laughing
    Ukraine has turned into a poor state, populated by embittered and drunk people

    Do not wait!
    I will cite one quote: "... in the history of Russia there was a short era of respect for the freedom of others, shared by both society and the authorities, nevertheless, it allows us to assume that the modern haze is not forever, that it is not Russia, but just that worst, vile, an insignificant thing that has been cultivated forever in the country by those who have used and robbed Russia under the guise of talking about its greatness, civilizational role and a special path to nowhere. "
    1. avt
      avt 26 August 2013 10: 12 New
      +6
      Quote: Ivan Sirko
      I will give one quote

      And whose quote?
      Quote: Ivan Sirko
      in the history of Russia there was a short era of respect for other people's freedom,

      Who is this sickly? For an hour, not Firtash, on behalf of Yulia, recalls how, with Rem, gas was pulled into his pocket? Well, as the shop hid itself, the other guys pushed them away, began to be here, and loomed over the unremarkable evil andMersky modern hassle. laughing Well, I also didn’t forget to camouflage myself as a brother -
      Quote: Ivan Sirko
      in the country by those who used Russia and robbed under the guise of talking about its greatness, civilizational role and a special way to nowhere. "
      laughing , just in case, and suddenly the square and fiery
      Quote: Ivan Sirko
      Do not wait!
      a very specific kerdyk will come.
    2. Simon
      Simon 26 August 2013 10: 49 New
      +2
      Well, what is this quote about? We are talking about Ukraine.
  13. rocketman
    rocketman 26 August 2013 09: 48 New
    +4
    everything is correct in sattie. I was on vacation in the Donbass, I was unpleasantly amazed - people working in factories do not even think about Russia - they all want to go to Geyropa, take their brains so thoroughly that there’s nothing to argue about, they didn’t listen to me, they didn’t turn on the logic. to run her own ideological company if she finally does not want to lose Ukraine. Or maybe she no longer needs her ...
    1. Vell
      Vell 27 August 2013 00: 19 New
      -1
      Here you have an ironic logic - if people do not want to go to Russia, then they are brainwashed.
  14. I'm Russian
    I'm Russian 26 August 2013 09: 49 New
    +4
    Before the Bolsheviks came to power in Russia, there was no concept of a Ukrainian and the Ukrainian language (originally created by the Austrians). Lenin and the Company created Ukrana in its current form and it is unfortunate that everything went the way of Yugoslavia: only the Slavic people do not consider themselves to be kindred.
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 26 August 2013 11: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: Russian
      Before the Bolsheviks came to power in Russia, there was no concept of a Ukrainian and the Ukrainian language (originally created by the Austrians)

      The story must be read dear.
    2. Vell
      Vell 27 August 2013 00: 22 New
      0
      Well done Austrians. Quickly created a Ukrainian, the Ukrainian language, and then Lenin and the Communist Party supported their undertaking and created Ukraine as well ...
  15. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 26 August 2013 10: 08 New
    +2
    You cannot sit with one booty on two trains traveling in different directions all the time, sooner or later Ukraine will have to choose (since Ukraine itself has not become either a Great country or one that has at least some influence) which pole of power to join, or to Russia with its TS, which is much closer to Ukraine in terms of carelessness, corruption, etc., does not even need to change anything, or wait for "integration" with the EU, but then you need to prepare for complete and unquestioning submission to the Reich, eradicate corruption, go to gay parades, prepare for that that for Ukraine everything will be decided by the "Big Dads" in Berlin and Frankfurt, but then there will be an opportunity and even a duty to throw mud at the "barbaric and wild Russians", it will be possible to hold SS marches (right after gays or in front of them), but you need to be ready that in this case from the category of any friends, Ukraine in this case will go into the category of the so-called. "Equal partners" who have to pay in full and on all accounts, because the Russians, although "barbarians", we know a little how to count, in any case, Russia will live without Ukraine, and they have poured so much mud on us that we have developed immunity to it, and because Ukraine will join the chorus of the European Union about the "backwardness of the Russians", we are neither hot nor cold. In another case, the "Big Uncles" from Berlin and Frankfurt will hope for the "Step back" that Ukraine made in its development by joining the CU, and will express their openly contempt (upon joining the EU, they will despise Ukraine anyway, but they will not talk about it aloud).
  16. avt
    avt 26 August 2013 10: 19 New
    +6
    Quote: Standard Oil
    You can’t sit all the time with one booty on two trains traveling in different directions, sooner or later Ukraine will have to choose

    I don’t know how and when Ukraine will choose it, but the GDP, in the light of its recent actions, has already quite specifically decided on the choice of Ukraine. She doesn’t have anything good from this choice - two bypass gas streams, an additional thread for the Old Man, expansion of the port facilities of the Azovo Black Sea Basin, customs rehearsal, and little things, sweets, sheep’s, Ragozin, again with airplanes. Well, with the rest, about submission to the new Reich - I agree, the current independent huts are happy to run ahead of the Euro-steam engine, so we’ll still see a single parade of SS-Soviets with pederasts in the same line, or maybe they’ll rename the line like a cruiser in a circle and a submarine choven. All the same, the independence and the European choice after all.
    1. Standard Oil
      Standard Oil 26 August 2013 10: 47 New
      +6
      Yes, I am afraid that Ukraine will choose the EU, I even see the rosy dreams of some Ukrainian politicians who, after attaching the European Parliament badges to their jacket with foam at the mouth, denounce the "Russian barbarians" somewhere in Brussels, and in Kiev somewhere on the Maidan, a parade is taking place SS, gay and gay SS from the new Blue Moon Legion.
  17. Aeneas
    Aeneas 26 August 2013 10: 57 New
    -4
    A voluminous-inspiring article "about history", where all 22 years fit into a thousand characters, and at the same time accents are placed, awarded with epithets, stages are assessed, morality is summed up, etc. certainly controversial, or not indisputable! I will probably start with the "alarm" of the day: the CU, the FTZ, the association with the EU. Firstly TS. Frankly speaking, in general, the TS turned out to be an inspiring political project with not promising economic prospects. Belarus, with all the "nishtyaks" in the form of gas, is "cheaper" (this is Gazprom's payment for the transfer of the gas transportation system to Belarus) and the openness of the Russian market is in a very deplorable state. In some strange way, it turned out that Belarus’s exports fell by almost a quarter, a year ago the Belarusian ruble and wages depreciated by 2 times, the country is in debt as in silk, the budget deficit is 7-8%, the economy is stagnating, perhaps before another sharp drop. These "joys" are described in a recent article in Nezavisimaya Gazeta. And this despite the fact that Belarus seems to receive gas and oil with preferences from Russia. It is Belarus that Russian colleagues set as an example for Ukraine. The example is rather unsuccessful. Kazakhstan also expresses its dissatisfaction with the CU, but Astana, of course, has a "raw cushion". Of course, I wish our friends to "clear up" these problems and go to success! ... The Ukrainian government is looking for new markets for its goods. The TS market (we mean Russia) will not become larger when Ukraine is in the TamSoyuz than today. As a matter of fact, why should Russian producers "move forward"? They defend their interests even against goods from Belarus, a member of the CU. Association with the EU and the FTZ is nothing more than a search by the Ukrainian government for new markets, and no politics! A lot of countries from Africa and Latin America have associations with the EU, and this does not mean that they will ever ever become members of the European Union and intrigue Russia. In this regard, the example of Turkey is very encouraging. This country has a FTZ with the EU, and an association without any hope of full membership. At first, the Turks did not agree with this "incompetence", then they resigned themselves, and now they generally scoff and brag in front of the empty promises of the euro officials. At the same time, Turkey, thanks to the openness of European markets, as well as trade with Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Syria, received a huge impetus to become a regional power leader, so much so that dizziness from success began to happen (Syria). But Turkey today is a powerful industrial power with stable growth and military-political authority. Ukraine, a neutral state, the "Russophobic" government has abandoned NATO, is pursuing a pro-Russian policy even within the state. For example, starting next year, the Russian language will actually become compulsory in all schools through the "feint" of the Ministry of Education, which obliged to introduce a compulsory "second foreign". As you understand, there are teachers for the "second foreign" only for the Russian language, while there are also almost 2 thousand. Russian schools ... With all the pro-Russian rhetoric and the actual actions of Yanukovych and PR, they turn out to be insufficiently loyal to Moscow, and declared enemies of the Russian world.
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas 26 August 2013 10: 59 New
      -2
      Well, okay, Russia will finally close the market (ban) for Ukrainian goods and turn off the gas. What is the next scenario? For Russia, this will be the last argument, because military intervention is madness and death for Russia itself. For Ukraine, the scenario (without the military one) is as follows - an economic collapse and unemployment in the engineering industries. The West uses this, gives loans and provides Ukraine with Russian gas through the western border (even cheaper). The Yanukovych regime remains in place, for this crisis is, of course, a "slight runny nose" compared to the events of the 90s. But on the other hand, a mobilization effect appears in the form of an "insidious Kremlin", but certainly not fraternal Russia (a standard political-dialectical technique). But the standard of living will undoubtedly deteriorate, and a new candidate is coming to the presidential elections on the wave of economic discontent. Essesno not about the Russian, and not even the left. Yanukovych will try to resist through falsifications by administrative resources, but the West will follow the "democratic procedures", for he gives money and calls the tune, like Kuchma in 2004. This new president will make Yushchenko seem like a Russophile. The country, with the approval of the majority of Ukrainians, will join NATO (and what can you do, if Russia does not like us and "chmyry"), and to replace neutral Ukraine with the prospects of integration, Russia will receive NATO tanks near Smolensk and missile defense radars near Rostov-on-Don. .. And the question is, do we all need this truncated?
      P.S. At the expense of the collapse of Ukraine. I didn't believe in it before, but now it's downright funny. Nobody wants to divide Ukraine in the West and East, and of course, the "political Ukrainian nation" has fully taken place, and the Russian-speaking Ukrainians of the South-East play the main roles. Even Crimea is phlegmatic, even Sevastopol, where the Ukrainian military uniform in the early 90s seemed bad manners, today is "flooded" with Ukrainian sailors, marines, air force personnel, and landowners "in uniform" who are not "ashamed" at all and are already quite naturally perceived by the majority Sevastopol residents for their own.
      1. xan
        xan 26 August 2013 11: 19 New
        +7
        Quote: Aeneas
        The West takes advantage of this, gives loans and provides Ukraine with Russian gas across the western border (even cheaper).

        the West will not give loans for a simple reason - among donors in Germany and France, the electorate is already dissatisfied with the European Union.
        Quote: Aeneas
        The country, with the approval of the majority of Ukrainians, will join NATO (and what can you do, if Russia does not like us and "snickers"), and to replace neutral Ukraine with the prospects of integration, Russia will receive NATO tanks near Smolensk and missile defense radars near Rostov-on-Don. ..

        they already can stand under Peter, and so what?
        I can write another script for you, but you won’t like it.
        Anyway, stop selling your non-entry and loyalty for very specific nishtyaks. Russia does not need such "relatives", causing emotions similar to abomination and disgust.
        1. Aeneas
          Aeneas 26 August 2013 11: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: xan
          Quote: Aeneas
          The West takes advantage of this, gives loans and provides Ukraine with Russian gas across the western border (even cheaper).
          the West will not give loans for a simple reason - among donors in Germany and France, the electorate is already dissatisfied with the European Union.

          the loan will be given by the USA. To print tens of billions of dead omeropreses for them as "two fingers on the asphalt". They need Ukraine not as a member of the European Union, for the EU has become hefty independent, but as a member of NATO, as "New Europe" on a par with Poland and the Balts ... Germany, its establishment, understands perfectly well why during the period of general crisis they even had height. At the expense of sales markets, when the Greeks or Spaniards took out loans to buy German cars. Money is just pieces of paper that are thrown into the furnace of the economy. And the Germans will continue to lend to all of Europe so that Europeans buy German goods.
        2. Aeneas
          Aeneas 26 August 2013 11: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: xan
          Quote: Aeneas
          The country, with the approval of the majority of Ukrainians, will join NATO (and what can you do, if Russia does not like us and "snickers"), and to replace neutral Ukraine with the prospects of integration, Russia will receive NATO tanks near Smolensk and missile defense radars near Rostov-on-Don. ..
          they already can stand under Peter, and so what?
          I can write another script for you, but you won’t like it.
          Anyway, stop selling your non-entry and loyalty for very specific nishtyaks. Russia does not need such "relatives", causing emotions similar to abomination and disgust.
          You threw kakakha at the Ukrainians, I hope this will improve your karma. repeat
          1. xan
            xan 26 August 2013 13: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Aeneas
            You threw kakakha at the Ukrainians, I hope this will improve your karma.

            it’s a pity that it did not cause a desire to answer the essence of what I wrote
            although this is also the answer, though again with an unflattering response
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. Valery 532
    Valery 532 26 August 2013 11: 07 New
    +2
    I did not have the patience to read this senile article. No, the article is straightforward, the syllable is correct and goes to perfection for those who think the same.
    But I hear and read this for 22 years. Tired of it. Because I read it diagonally, but the comments are interesting to me. Psychologically.
    Why: almost all those present (including the author of the article) are evil people who are ready to wipe off people they dislike? Why do you think that you can force to force friendship and submission? Why is no one even trying to figure out the reasons for the Ukrainian choice?
    And many, many "why"!
    Maybe it's time to somehow rise above your imperial worldview and look at the world with your own eyes?
    Yes, there are many problems in Ukraine. Yes, not all is well. Yes, the standard of living is below many countries, including Russia. But ... we don't need to look for a national idea. The division into "Ukrainians" and "Banderaites" is complete nonsense. And we know how to negotiate with each other. And they are ready to make sacrifices. And this state will never die, do not hope gentlemen, gentlemen, comrades! You still have to rethink and condemn the actions of the current rulers. We do it right away, now ...
    1. alex13-61
      alex13-61 26 August 2013 11: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Valery 532
      Why do you think that you can force to force friendship and submission?

      Are you talking about attempts to Ukrainize Crimea? ...
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas 26 August 2013 12: 41 New
        +2
        laughing there are no Ukrainian schools in Crimea. There is a semi school in Simferopol, and that’s it.
        1. gena7777777
          gena7777777 26 August 2013 12: 50 New
          +2
          Is the Ukrainian-language school in demand in Crimea?
          1. Aeneas
            Aeneas 26 August 2013 13: 29 New
            0
            firstly, yes, there are many Ukrainians in Crimea. We also need Tatar schools, which do not exist either. Secondly, we are talking about some kind of Ukrainization, but there is none, and even vice versa. There, in Crimea, it has its own parliament, and it has extensive rights. Including on "Ukrainization-Russification", the distribution of budgets, lands, etc. It is essential that the parliament is Russian, and rather short-sighted, in the same "language policy". Adequate comes mainly from Kiev.
            1. alex13-61
              alex13-61 26 August 2013 14: 28 New
              0
              Quote: Aeneas
              . There, in Crimea, has its own parliament, and it has extensive rights

              The fact of the matter is that his rights are cut back ... Autonomy in Crimea is cross-border. Everything started beautifully: even there was a president of his own ...
              Quote: Aeneas
              Including on "Ukrainization-Russification", distribution of budgets,

              The budget is managed by Kiev. The Russian language is not even granted regional status.
              Quote: Aeneas
              Adequate comes mainly from Kiev.

              Are you talking about the officials who impose them on us from ???
              By the way: the most adequate just recently ... although they criticize the current government. And under the "orange", whoever was not sent ...
              1. Aeneas
                Aeneas 26 August 2013 15: 29 New
                +1
                Quote: alex13-61

                The budget is managed by Kiev. The Russian language is not even granted regional status.

                Are you kidding or cheating on purpose? "The Supreme Council of Crimea took priority measures to implement in the autonomy of the law of Ukraine" On the fundamentals of state language policy. "On Wednesday, August 15, 80 out of 88 deputies present at the session voted for the corresponding decision. The adopted document gave the Russian language the status of a regional one. action from the date of adoption By its decision, the Crimean Parliament instructed the Council of Ministers of the autonomy, by October 10, 2012, to prepare and submit to the deputies for consideration proposals on the implementation of the Law of Ukraine "On the Fundamentals of State Language Policy in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea." explanatory work among Crimeans about the main provisions of the law.According to the decision of the Supreme Council, local governments and regional state administrations were also given recommendations to develop and implement measures to implement the provisions of the Law of Ukraine "On the Foundations of State Language Policy" and the respective territories.
                Read more: http://www.bagnet.org/news/society/190862 "The Crimean budget is also adopted by the Supreme Council of Crimea, and approved by the Verkhovna Rada when adopting the budget for next year.
                1. alex13-61
                  alex13-61 26 August 2013 18: 24 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Aeneas
                  By its decision, the Crimean parliament instructed the Council of Ministers of the Autonomy to prepare and submit to the deputies proposals for the implementation of the Law of Ukraine “On the Basics of the State Language Policy in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea” before October 10, 2012.

                  It's like ??? hindsight ??? Are you kidding, or are you specifically deceiving ???
                  I repeat once again: today the Russian language in the Crimea is not regional.
            2. Egoza
              Egoza 26 August 2013 16: 40 New
              +3
              Quote: Aeneas
              Tatar schools are also needed, which also do not exist.

              You're lying! There are 17 schools in Crimea, where they teach only in the Tatar language. Another thing is that Dzhamilev complains that “Russian schools spoil the Tatars,” because people want their children to study in Russian schools.
        2. Egoza
          Egoza 26 August 2013 16: 38 New
          0
          Quote: Aeneas
          there are no Ukrainian schools in Crimea. There is a semi school in Simferopol, and that’s it.

          Lying! There are 7 Ukrainian schools in Crimea! Plus a school where both Russian and Ukrainian classes exist in parallel, i.e. where the training is fully in Ukrainian. And in all Russian schools they deeply study the Ukrainian language.
          1. Aeneas
            Aeneas 26 August 2013 20: 03 New
            0
            you are lying! No. At least 2 schools have been closed over the past few years: in Bakhchisarai and Sevastopol. There really is a school in Simferopol. And what difference does it make, one school or a half, or even 3! This can be compared with more than three hundred Russians.
            1. biglow
              biglow 26 August 2013 21: 51 New
              0
              Quote: Aeneas
              you are lying! No. At least 2 schools have been closed over the past few years: in Bakhchisarai and Sevastopol. There really is a school in Simferopol. And what difference does it make, one school or a half, or even 3! This can be compared with more than three hundred Russians.

              what's the point in school in which there is no one to teach? in Yalta, for example, a Ukrainian school is 30 percent full. , more willing no, and no teachers by the way the same. They are forced to take teachers from western Ukraine with a poor knowledge of Ukrainian ... There are no teachers with Tatar schools, and plus where then to go with Tatar education? therefore, the Tatars of children are transferred to Russian schools ...
        3. biglow
          biglow 26 August 2013 19: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: Aeneas
          laughing there are no Ukrainian schools in Crimea. There is a semi school in Simferopol, and that’s it.

          do not lie please. In Crimea there are Ukrainian schools in all cities, another question is that they are empty is the truth.
          1. alex13-61
            alex13-61 26 August 2013 20: 54 New
            0
            Quote: biglow
            In Crimea there are Ukrainian schools in all cities, another question is that they are empty is the truth.

            Because they are unclaimed ... People have the opportunity to choose. If Ukrainian schools were not enough for everyone, it would be wrong.
    2. alex13-61
      alex13-61 26 August 2013 12: 14 New
      +3
      Quote: Valery 532
      Why: almost all those present (including the author of the article) are evil people who are ready to wipe off people they dislike?

      If you want to observe the truly evil and, in addition, the cattle-boorish, then look at the dear "censor.net". Where is the zoo ....
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas 26 August 2013 12: 42 New
        -2
        Do you want to turn VO into a zoo? And before this resource claimed to be adequate.
    3. xan
      xan 26 August 2013 14: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: Valery 532
      Why do you think that you can force to force friendship and submission?

      But I can't get it right, why raising duties on goods to the same level for all at once makes the Ukrainians cry about "compulsion to friendship and obedience"?
  20. Moon
    Moon 26 August 2013 11: 19 New
    +6
    Quote: Valery 532
    The division into "Ukrainians" and "Banderaites" is complete nonsense. And we know how to negotiate with each other.

    Well, yes ... that’s why WWII veterans are beaten in Lviv, the Bandera Farion teaches the right names .... and in general Yanukovych has long agreed with the truck driver.

    Quote: Valery 532
    And ready for the sacrifice.

    Which ones? Announce the entire list, please.

    Quote: Valery 532
    And this state will never die, do not expect gentlemen, gentlemen, comrades! You still have to rethink and condemn the actions of the current rulers. We do it right away, now ...
    It may not die, but it will be tormented for a long time.

    Valery, you are not the first and not the last with such a comment. For peace of mind, go through ukrosaytah, where already in my memory 10 years of talk about how Russia will soon collapse, die, etc. I can give a tip http://hvylya.org/analytics/politics/ukraina-2013-sozrevshie-plodyi-nezavisimost
    i.html
    1. Valery 532
      Valery 532 26 August 2013 12: 09 New
      0
      Dear (or respected?) Moon!
      You are exactly the same person who is fanning what one wants to think!
      I assure you that Lviv and its inhabitants are very tolerant people. Even your ORT admits it. And no one beats any veterans there. And the fact that they did not accept the provocateurs from the "Russian community" of Odessa on May 9 - they knew what they were doing, since there was a court decision.
      Do you definitely need to know the list of victims? To know what to push? laughing Okay, I list: economic, political, military. And what else are needed? Add yourself, you are a smart person (?).
      It was more difficult for the Baltic states in the early 90s. And nothing, they live and live. And we will survive lol
      By the way, I do not wish anything bad to Russia. And I don’t understand why you are bringing this negativity here. Obviously not in the subject. Live, prosper, enjoy life. Let everything be fine with you.
      1. avt
        avt 26 August 2013 13: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: Valery 532
        It was more difficult for the Baltic states in the early 90s. And nothing, live and hello t.

        Well, and who actually argues that!? Here, in fact, they say to you in chorus that you will live like the Balts - without your own industrialization and agriculture cut off by the Geyvrop concepts. Well, and with the possibility of migrant workers in Europe, but you have already mastered it. Well, Velikouria also has to forget about it, there are enough of its great ones.
        Quote: Valery 532
        Why do you think that you can force to force friendship and submission?

        request And when were you actually forced? When Julia signed an agreement on gas prices without calculating the consequences of an excess of "mind"? laughing You were always warned in advance, explaining the consequences for a long time, but again, out of an excess of arrogance and "intelligence," you did not believe, did not believe in either the Nord Stream, then in the South Stream, now you do not believe in the closure of the border ... request Well, when the predicted consequences of decisions come, then there is only one reaction - the imperious intrigues of the oath-great -rophobes.
        Quote: Olaf
        You will beat off the desire to join the muddy alliance of the friends of Russia remaining in Ukraine.))) Although I understand this site is not for Ukraine, but for Russia.

        Yes, no one really calls anywhere, everyone, calm down, Ku-Yanukovy verbiage no longer interests anyone, everything falls into normal market interests when his shirt is closer to his body. All calls ended when the construction of bypass pipelines began.
      2. Moon
        Moon 26 August 2013 16: 12 New
        +2
        Valery, I did not know that our consul in Lvov is a member of the "Russian community", because he also got it.

        War casualties? Will Zaporozhye go out to sea and dive?

        I also do not wish anything bad to Ukraine, because I was born there, all my relatives live there. I just understand what will happen next, but you are not, as on the Maidan. Correctly, one of the politicians of Ukraine once said that a rake needs to be added to the coat of arms of Ukraine.

        The moon is feminine.
        1. Moon
          Moon 26 August 2013 16: 34 New
          +1
          Valery, do not be lazy, read this interview, maybe at least it will dispel a little European fog in your head ... although it is unlikely. Ukraine prefers to learn from its mistakes.

          http://globalconflict.ru/interviews/31532-vitold-kezhun-polsha-obekt-neokoloniza
          chee
          1. Valery 532
            Valery 532 26 August 2013 21: 08 New
            -1
            Sorry for doubts about gender, dear Moon. It’s just that your nickname doesn’t really fit in with the avatar laughing
            I didn’t read the article, I just looked through the headings diagonally. The usual nonsense that spammers working for money spread. This is not interesting to me.
            Now I answer the questions.
            1. The fact that your consul was in the ranks of the Ukrainian political organization - my congratulations! But what does it have to do with WWII veterans?
            2. You missed other options for sacrifice, focusing on the military. Okay, accepted with clarifications. You can easily find on the web the data of sociologists that half the population is ready to defend the independence of the state with arms in hand.
            3. How do you know the future of my country? Are you clairvoyant? Or at least a specialist in macroeconomics? fellow
            And to those who see only the negative in life, I enlighten: the Balts have already entered the category of "rich countries". Russia is about the same, but ... for some it is due to natural resources, while in others it is due to non-existent factories.
  21. Olaf
    Olaf 26 August 2013 11: 28 New
    -1
    The article can be commented on by the Ukrainian proverb - "d_uren dumkoyu radio". I think there is no need to translate into "generally understandable".
    Recently, Ukrainian-Phobic insanity has been at HE. But what a miserable and primitive article-judgment.
    As an example, the opinion that Ukraine has betrayed the Russian brothers can be singled out, although if we assume that all Russians are like the majority of members of the forum, then you would not wish such brothers to the enemy. So wait - does Russia or Ukraine have a calendar day of sovereignty earlier (12,06 and 16,07)? True, in Russia it has recently been modestly called the Day of Russia. Let me explain what this means - it means that in Russia the sovereignty from the USSR was declared earlier than in Ukraine, which was one of the last to leave the USSR. Yes that she left - she was simply expelled from there. Russian "patriots" led by EBN in 91 (as I remember today) shouted that, they say, enough to feed the parasites from the republics. Although, according to many economists, the Ukrainian SSR in 91 was one of two or three (I don’t remember exactly, but the RSFSR was definitely not there) a republic that could feed itself.
    Regarding the "gift in the form of receipts for housing and communal services": the author, you probably do not know, but in Russia the tariffs practically do not differ from the Ukrainian ones. The ratio of wages and pensions to prices does not differ much either. I ask you not to compare Moscow St. Petersburg with the Ukrainian province.
    VO editorial staff: guys, you have no smarter authors. With the articles that have been published on VO lately, you will discourage Russia's remaining friends in Ukraine from joining a murky union.))) Although I understand that this site is not for Ukraine, but for Russia. Prepare, so to speak, public opinion in Russia. But very rude, "tovarischi", very much. Much more clumsy than the West, so dearly "loved" by you, does. Maybe because you have more lies than the "decaying" West?
    1. seller trucks
      26 August 2013 13: 05 New
      +3
      Quote: Olaf
      friends of Russia remaining in Ukraine.)))


      What are you speaking about? what kind of friendship? for Ukrainians, friendship is expressed exclusively in banknotes and the presence of freebies

      Quote: Olaf
      muddy union


      embarrassed to ask, what do you expect from a "not cloudy union"? Ukraine, Europe from the signing of the association does not, and is unlikely to become.
    2. slaventi
      slaventi 26 August 2013 13: 40 New
      +5
      As an example, we can highlight the already-worn-out opinion that Ukraine betrayed the Russian brothers,
      Nobody betrayed anyone. The division of the state was a special operation of the Western intelligence services, where Gorbachev was the key figure.
      that all Russians, such as the majority of members of the forum, do not wish for the enemy of such brothers.
      Ukraine is not homogeneous Zapadentsev certainly can not be called brothers, they damn brother if he is against the maskal.
      True, in Russia it has recently been modestly called Russia Day. I will explain what this means - it means that in Russia sovereignty from the USSR was declared earlier than in Ukraine,

      Previously, it was defiantly called "Independence Day" Well, it would be if June 22 was declared the day of victory. Most likely it is the day of loss of sovereignty.
      Yes that she left - she was simply expelled from there. Russian "patriots" led by EBN in 91 (as I remember today) shouted that, they say, enough to feed the parasites from the republics.

      Yeltsin Kravchuk participated in the Bialowieza conspiracy, everyone is responsible for Shushkevich. EBN is a direct protege of the USA, a traitor cannot be a patriot. The enemy propaganda screamed through state media.
      Although, according to many economists, the Ukrainian SSR in 91 was one of two or three (I don’t remember exactly, but the RSFSR was not exactly there) a republic that could feed itself.
      The Russian Federation produced more than half of the gross national product and was a donor. Moreover, all the main energy resources and mineral resources were located on its territory. Ukraine could feed itself, but only as part of the USSR.
    3. Cristall
      Cristall 27 August 2013 00: 15 New
      0
      I won’t put any pluses to anyone, as well as minuses,
      But this is the best commentary on all the "News about Ukraine" of recent times.
      Respect to you Olaf . hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. slaventi
        slaventi 27 August 2013 08: 12 New
        0
        Thank you.
  22. High speed
    High speed 26 August 2013 11: 35 New
    +2
    Six months before the presidential elections in Ukraine in V. Tretyakov's program "What is to be done?" the topic was discussed: which of the candidates for the post of President of Ukraine is the most preferable for us (RF)?

    The reasonable outcome of the conversation is nobody!
  23. Moon
    Moon 26 August 2013 11: 38 New
    0
    [quote = Aeneas]
    Well, okay, Russia will finally close the market (ban) for Ukrainian goods [/ quote]
    Not even a thought like that. You will simply go through customs inspection not as a member of the FTA CIS, but as a FTA with the EU. That is, in full.


    [quote] and turn off the gas. [/ quote]
    What the hell? You pay regularly.
    So far, Ukraine has begun to think about it. lol

    But what if the pumping of Russian gas was stopped, for example, by doubting its Russian origin or considering its quality not corresponding to Ukrainian standards? Will the European Union rise? So we need to bring our problems to the international level. Do you think we're kidding? No, we heard this proposal from very serious people. "War is like war," they say.
    http://gazeta.zn.ua/internal/russkiy-plan-osmyslennyy-i-besposchadnyy-_.html


    [quote] The West uses this, gives loans and provides Ukraine with Russian gas through the western border (even cheaper). [/ quote]
    Yeah, cheaper. Already at $ 24.
    The West does not and will not give loans, its head is spinning from "native" Greece, there is no time to think about "orphans".

    [Quote] this crisis, of course, is a "light runny nose" in comparison with the events of the 90s. [/ quote]
    You should not think so. In the 90s they survived at the expense of Turkey and Poland (shuttles, etc.), now this business is under big capital with their shopping centers.
    In the 90s there were completely different tariffs for housing and communal services and the light with gas was not cut off for non-payment of several months.
    Agree that Ukraine of the 90s was still stronger and more stable than the current one.
    There were more factories working, which means that employment was more important. Today, infrastructure is 22 years older, etc. etc.

    [quote] But then there is a mobilization effect in the form of a "treacherous Kremlin", [/ quote]
    For some insidious, and for whom and beloved. For TS half of the population.

    [Quote]
    in the wake of economic discontent comes a new candidate. Essentially not about Russian, and not even left. This new president will be such that Yushchenko seems Russophile. [/ quote]
    Yes, Yushchenko was already secretly awarded the medal "For Services to the Fatherland" in Moscow, just breaking the gas contract for $ 50. until 2011 what is it worth. wink

    Spit on Yushchenko, the garnish Yanukovych, and the future (?) President Klitschko - ALL FROM ONE NEST.

    [Quote]
    The country, with the approval of most Ukrainians, will join NATO [/ quote]
    And why are you still not there? Together with Georgia? lol

    [Quote]
    Russia will receive NATO tanks near Smolensk and missile defense radars near Rostov-on-Don ... [quote /]

    Belgorod seems closer repeat

    [Quote]
    Partition of Ukraine no one wants in the West and East [/ quote]
    That's why I look at articles on this topic more and more, and not only from the east of Ukraine, but somehow from the western part.
  24. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 August 2013 11: 38 New
    +5
    Quote: Like all 20 years of independence, we all care when will this booth end? When Ukraine ceases to rush about, it will clear itself of illusion and, finally, will understand that it must solve all its problems on its own, without Russia, America
    I agree with the author. I was born, raised, studied in Ukraine. Live in Russia. Often I am at home in the Kharkov region. Therefore, I worry about the fate of my small homeland, the fate of my friends and relatives, of whom there are a lot. A lot of what is said in the article is true. But the fact that millions of Ukrainians leave to work in other countries is depressing. And who will build their country, an independent Ukraine? The question is rhetorical.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. vladek64
    vladek64 26 August 2013 12: 05 New
    +1
    The author discusses so much about "little" Ukrainians that the question arises about the "size" of the author himself.
    What's the point in discussing what the "little ones" say in kitchens? Let's speak and act like "big". And the "small" themselves will catch up if they go.
  27. pensioner
    pensioner 26 August 2013 12: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: Valery 532
    Yes, in Ukraine there are many problems. Yes, not all is well.

    I do not believe! All X A R A SH O !! At least from reading the dill, I got the impression. I’m wondering: is the example of Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Greece of Ukraine’s integration of Ukrainian citizens not worried? Those. Is the hope that this cup is past them is present?
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas 26 August 2013 12: 50 New
      +1
      and what do you read from "ukropressa"? As for me, we have constant criticism of everyone and everything, sometimes with hypertrophied protrusion of shortcomings and sprinkling of ashes on the head. There are no words about any successes or achievements. I judge this by the example of military exercises. In Russia, they show reports with equipment, shooting, explosions, "bangs", and other effects. The same thing happens at the Ukrainian exercises, only video clips are stored on the hard drives of amateur participants, but do not appear on TV screens.
  28. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 26 August 2013 12: 39 New
    +3
    I read the comments and thought. I live in Kursk, that is, on the border of Russia and Ukraine. In fact - and ours are constantly dashing "behind the cordon" - somewhere in Kharkov or Sumy and "" constantly on this side of the border they are taking something. To live something like that is necessary for us and for them. Frankly speaking, I have practically no doubt that there will be no integration with Ukraine. Firstly, they won't give it, and secondly, the mentality has changed, however. One thing is not clear. Well, you are torn to the EU (I do not mean politicians, but ordinary people, ordinary people). Well, do you really think that someone is waiting for you there ??? Yes, they are tearing each other apart for the Eurocentre, Germany and Italy will not find a common language, and Spain with France, etc. Not only will they squeeze dry, but also the children-grandchildren will be turned into p-and-d-e-r-o-in. Of course, from ordinary people, the campaign, nothing depends either here or in the "square", but let the politicians "h-blame" each other (that is, for what), and we water each other with mud. If they (politicians) divorced us in 1991, then at least we need to remain good neighbors, and not spread rot on each other.
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas 26 August 2013 12: 53 New
      -4
      Well, everything is correct, tokmo with pedorgs is too much. As for me, even without the EU, in Ukraine and Russia homosexuals are more than in the same Poland.
  29. KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 26 August 2013 12: 55 New
    +5
    News from Ukraine is always the maximum: beautiful Tymoshenko, boxer Klitschko, terrible Yushchenko, poor Grishai, Nazis, nazis, yellow, blue, Crimea and so on ... A very colorful country ... Even in the energy sector they have a variety: Russian gas , then shale, then gasoline, then biodiesel ...

    Russia will not get closer to the fraternal countries by groaning them one at a time ... I know for sure. The more our countries watered with mud, the farther you want to be from this all ...
  30. Makarov
    Makarov 26 August 2013 13: 00 New
    +3
    When the PR was chosen for the first time, I went (voluntarily) to Western Ukraine as an observer from the VO "Slavyanskaya Gvardiya", which fully supported any pro-Russian movement ... to a village in Western Ukraine. The first time (as well as the second) we were received very warmly and cordially. No problems, no negative impressions. The second time I even brought the local head, showed a farm with ostriches (there was snow around knee-deep) ... I looked at how people live in the villages of Western Ukraine, looked at their solid houses, at their way of life ... everything is like everywhere else - those those who plow live without knowing troubles. I have not seen any negative. BUT ... when it came to the counting of votes, it turned out that the teacher of the Ukrainian language did not know how to interpret the law, where it was written something like this: "In the case of such and such marks and (or) corrections, the vote is considered invalid, it is correct to put such signs too .. ., "... and so for an hour we were proving to the teacher that and (or) these are not different events, but the standard formulation in our laws, which implies three different events ... fortunately, we were taught before sending and forced the Election Law to learn "from" and "to". In the village, the teacher is a person of practically scientific magnitude, and although we defended our point of view (we were almost torn up there, since there were only two of us, and it was about 20 percent of the votes) it was difficult ... but at the same time, no There was no "left" negative, there was a usual normal dispute. I smeared all this to the fact that the division of Ukraine into "left" and "right" is only in the head of the author of this article and a very small population of Ukraine, a country that does not have a coat of arms, but has big debts, taken by the sick Tymoshenko ... ...
  31. Valery 532
    Valery 532 26 August 2013 13: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Shkodnik65
    One thing is not clear. Well, you are torn into the EU (I do not mean politicians but ordinary people, ordinary people). Well, do you really think that someone is waiting for you there ???
    Very good question. Right and smart.
    So much so that you won’t answer right away ... But I’ll try.
    All present consider mainly the material side of the issue. Is this right? Whether we want it or not, the choice between the CU and the EU is the choice between teams and opinions, the standards of Moscow or Brussels. Well, please tell me what good Moscow can bring to our lives? Big theft, banditry, hypocrisy, dictatorship, unpredictability? Well, what else, name someone?
    But in Brussels the opposite. He now sets two points as an indispensable condition: the elimination of electoral justice and the change of electoral legislation. Do you want me to be against it? I am for two hands! They Europeans are fighting for my rights! Thanks to them for that! Maybe you don’t need it? And if necessary, - maybe you don’t spit in the direction of the hated Europe? Maybe your place is there, and not in the role of the collector of the new USSR?
    1. avt
      avt 26 August 2013 14: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Valery 532
      And if necessary, - maybe you don’t spit in the direction of the hated Europe? Maybe your place is there, and not in the role of the collector of the new USSR?
      Where is there ? Jo ... e or the phalos in Europe? Nah, somehow yourself.
      It is understandable, of course, death is red in the world, and everything seems to be not so scary in bulk as one by one. But somehow you yourself should lower your pants according to the Euro-law and the European tolerance, we will somehow naturally live, totalitarian. " laughing Only the request is enormous - then, as always, do not blame us that we are the evil and the Mercers and the great dystrophians who swore such a share to you out of spite. laughing Although I grabbed the excess, we will be guilty anyway in the end. laughing
    2. Egoza
      Egoza 26 August 2013 16: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: Valery 532
      Well, please tell me what good Moscow can bring to our lives? Big theft, banditry, hypocrisy, dictatorship, unpredictability?

      And what, now this is not in Ukraine? And will this change with EU accession? Maybe that's why they are pulling us into the EU because the top got a GUARANTEE that it will remain at the trough! Even the vaunted "opposition" in the person of Yatsenyuk (read at the behest of Tymoshenko) is ready at this stage to conclude a truce with Yanukovych in order to get into the EU only.

      Quote: Valery 532
      But in Brussels the opposite. He now sets two points as an indispensable condition: the elimination of electoral justice and the change of electoral legislation. Do you want me to be against it? I am for two hands! They Europeans are fighting for my rights! Thanks to them for that!

      Does the EU also guarantee you jobs, salaries and pensions, medical care?
      And if by "elimination of electoral justice" is meant "release Yulia", then I am against it!
  32. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 26 August 2013 13: 33 New
    +2
    Quote: Karabin
    Poorly offered. The offer should be one that cannot be refused.


    My dearest! And who do you think Ukraine is when you say such words?

    And we believe the facts: on August 24, the day of the celebration of Independence Day of Ukraine, President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych confirmed the state’s course towards European integration. “For Ukraine, association with the EU should be an important incentive for the further formation of a modern European state,” Yanukovych said. HAND FLAG!
    BUST:
    French President Francois Hollande hopes that Ukraine’s rapprochement with the EU will continue, reaching a new stage in the coming months. This is stated in the message of the President of France to the President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych.
    President of Poland Komorowski emphasized that Poland wants to help the Ukrainian authorities to sign and later ratify the Association Agreement, UNIAN reports.
    “We wish Ukraine success on the path to integration with the Western world,” said the President of Poland.
    The Ambassador of Hungary – Hungary is one of those countries that unambiguously and fully supports Ukraine’s European integration, including its accession to the European Union.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. Kosatka
    Kosatka 26 August 2013 14: 31 New
    +6
    Normal article. The alignment is not very trample. All the ruling elite are tearing and pulling this territory into the EU and NATO, all the capital of these BARGs and THEES is located in the EU and the USA, try to turn your back on them and lose everything. A country without a FUTURE, millions are torn to earn money and work for the cordon, most to Russia. All successes remained for the 22-year-old abroad. All laws and the constitution are written for them under them, twist as they want. The referendum would put everything in its place, and this BAND will do EVERYTHING not to hold it.
  35. Vtel
    Vtel 26 August 2013 14: 45 New
    +1
    What is modern Ukraine, if we go beyond abstract reasoning? Corrupt state. Self-discredited authority. A divided people, where on the one hand they live, and on the other, Bandera. Lack of a nationwide leader. Lack of a nationwide idea.


    But they seem to have fights without rules in the Duma. More fat and circuses, the comrades have not yet canceled the money - they are waiting for the cadas to flow from Geyvropa. It’s a pity tilko simple people who, like us, under liberal oppression.
  36. Tver
    Tver 26 August 2013 15: 30 New
    +2
    When Minin and Pozharsky jammed Hetman Khodkevich near Moscow, hardly anyone could have imagined that the descendants of his fighters would carve out territory for themselves from the South of Russia. Yes Yes ! Three quarters of the soldiers of the Polish hetman were Ukrainian Cossacks. For a long time they were silent in Russia about this regrettable fact ... SILENT !!! Of course Lenin and the rest of the Marxists also tried, but the process has been going on for a long time and even without much outside support. Semi-Poland is a phenomenon of istorii.Gluost Poles organically combined with the conceit of "Svidomo ukrov". For lovers of Slavic unity, I remind you that Poland No. 1 was also falling apart a few centuries ago and turned into a bandit reserve. The Russians came, put things in order and ... deserved the hatred of subsequent generations of pshek. Now Polupoland is rapidly repeating the history of real Poland in the 18-19 centuries. It is not desirable to interfere with the process of disintegration - you can get infected!
  37. Tver
    Tver 26 August 2013 15: 30 New
    -1
    When Minin and Pozharsky jammed Hetman Khodkevich near Moscow, hardly anyone could have imagined that the descendants of his fighters would carve out territory for themselves from the South of Russia. Yes Yes ! Three quarters of the soldiers of the Polish hetman were Ukrainian Cossacks. For a long time they were silent in Russia about this regrettable fact ... SILENT !!! Of course Lenin and the rest of the Marxists also tried, but the process has been going on for a long time and even without much outside support. Semi-Poland is a phenomenon of istorii.Gluost Poles organically combined with the conceit of "Svidomo ukrov". For lovers of Slavic unity, I remind you that Poland No. 1 was also falling apart a few centuries ago and turned into a bandit reserve. The Russians came, put things in order and ... deserved the hatred of subsequent generations of pshek. Now Polupoland is rapidly repeating the history of real Poland in the 18-19 centuries. It is not desirable to interfere with the process of disintegration - you can get infected!
  38. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 26 August 2013 15: 32 New
    +1
    from the Don.
    To hold a referendum before the task! I remember one, they tucked one place! And the author - ++! A rushnychyk rolls downhill! And what's next: an abyss or a whirlpool, weep up! In any case, this is the choice of the Ukrainians!
  39. Tver
    Tver 26 August 2013 15: 33 New
    -2
    Someone from the Russian administration in the 19th century called the ukrov dialect semi-polish
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas 26 August 2013 20: 06 New
      -2
      rude old man. No.
  40. Buran
    Buran 26 August 2013 15: 42 New
    +4
    Quote: Luna
    For her, Washington, Brussels and Moscow are the same racketeers who are able to provide a roof and the choice is made in favor of outwardly physically more powerful ones, about whom the market says that their “roof” has not yet leaked.

    +++ 1000000500 Clearly, clearly, competently.
  41. Egoza
    Egoza 26 August 2013 17: 05 New
    +1
    Read this article! And it will become clear that Russia cannot stand by and just watch Ukraine being pulled into the EU.
    “US Militarized Biolaboratory in Ukraine”: First Public Protests
    Kharkov and Kharkov region should not turn into a testing ground for testing pathogenic microbes
    The potential threats of microbiological laboratories being built throughout Ukraine by the US military are beginning to seriously alarm ordinary citizens. We received a letter from an initiative group of residents of Kharkov and Kharkov region, expressing extreme concern about the plans to build a central abstract laboratory (TsRL) in the village of Silkostantsiya near Merefa.

    Note that since 2010, when the first facility for the study of especially dangerous pathogens for American patterns (at the Odessa Anti-Plague Institute) was commissioned, no public unrest was observed.
    One of the reasons is that this large-scale project to create the latest bio-laboratories in many regions of Ukraine tried not to publicize or notify the population about its goals and objectives, as well as possible, let's say, side effects of this military-medical cooperation carried out through American Pentagon - Ukrainian Ministry of Health.
    At the same time, it is difficult to recall at least one more American-Ukrainian project of recent times, which was equally generously backed by American financial support (all the more so - with the help of the US military) and is being implemented at the pace of the march.
    “2000” devoted a number of articles to the development of this microbiological network, after which a government commission was established to verify the facts presented. But even after the deputy’s appeals, the Pentagon’s bioproject covers an ever larger territory of Ukraine, approaching the borders of the Russian Federation, Belarus, Poland, and Moldova.
    The fact that in our country, which has always been considered epidemiologically safe, very dangerous experiments and tests can begin under the brand name of “ensuring biological safety” (and bio-laboratories just involve the study of especially dangerous infections of both human and animal origin) did not stop progress programs.
    We said that, in fact, the domestic system of sanitary-epidemiological and veterinary services is taken under the total control of foreigners ...
    They wrote that the project calls into question the further development in Ukraine of such sciences as microbiology, virology ...
  42. Egoza
    Egoza 26 August 2013 17: 08 New
    +1
    Extension
    They indicated that the term of state agreements regarding this project expired in May of this year ...
    And silence.
    What are waiting for the Ministry of Health, the government? New Pentagon infusions?
    Puzzled statements from the Russian Federation, which by no means wants to put up with the deployment of the Pentagon’s American microbiological base at its borders? Yes, and given the fact that today the eastern neighbor is concerned about the problem of African swine fever. And where it is brought from, one can only guess.
    But biotechnology, or bioweapons, can be aimed not only at the population, but also at the animal world, which can undermine confidence, for example, in producers of meat products.
    If the first TsRL in Odessa, created under the Agreement on cooperation in the field of preventing the spread of technologies, pathogens and knowledge that can be used in the development of biological weapons, has become the main one for the study of human pathogens, then the TsRL in Merefa is planned to become the main center for the study of pathogens among animals, subordinating the National Academy of Agricultural Sciences.
    The biolaboratory in Odessa was created in the already existing building of the anti-plague institute, but they intend to build the Merafian one on a bare spot. To date, Americans have built from scratch 3 biological laboratories for the study of pathogens among animals - in Dnepropetrovsk, Lviv and Lugansk.
    All American biological laboratories - in Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Lugansk, Lviv, Vinnitsa, Ternopol, Uzhgorod, Kiev, Simferopol, Kherson - according to our data, are mothballed. No scientific work is being conducted in them.
    They are probably waiting for some kind of epidemiological outbreak to prove the feasibility of a modernized bio-network?
    Why fix the best?
    So, let's see what happens in the Kharkov region.
    There, near Merefa, there is the village of Silkostation, where the Institute of Sericulture worked, which in 2008 was reorganized into the scientific department of the Kharkov Institute of Experimental and Clinical Veterinary Medicine.
    The very transformation of the institute into a department indicates not the best times for sericulture in our country, although local newspapers citing the words of the director of the NSC “Institute of Experimental and Clinical Veterinary Medicine” (IECM), doctor of veterinary sciences Boris Stegniy write that “carefully they keep 122 existing silkworm breeds and are working on creating new ones. The unique, unique collection in Ukraine is preserved. ”
    Local newspapers write about the wonderful prospects of creating an American biolaboratory in the village. True, the material about this in the "Merefyansky Vesty", posted on the website of the Merefyansky City Council on July 31 this year, was published incognito (more precisely - signed by the press service of "MV").
    For some reason, the editors did not consider it necessary to reinforce the views expressed by the same Mr. Stegnius, an active supporter of the creation of a new laboratory.
  43. Egoza
    Egoza 26 August 2013 17: 11 New
    +2
    Extension
    We give excerpts from this publication, accompanying our comments.
    “Recently, residents of the Silk Station have been worried about their future and the future of the entire city because they learned about the proposed construction of the Central Reference Laboratory of especially dangerous animal diseases.
    Very often dangerous diseases lie in wait for animals. For example, anthrax was discovered in the Odessa region in late spring. In the Zaporizhzhya region from the bite of a dog, which was a carrier of rabies, this year 3 children died. In the same Zaporizhzhya region, specialists have already registered about 10 cases of rabies in domestic animals. Among them are cows, dogs and cats.
    Specialists also warn that very soon mankind will face a shaft of epidemics of already known diseases that cannot be treated by methods known today. In addition, a “triumphal” return of missing diseases such as plague or smallpox is not ruled out.
    That is why it is necessary to open new research centers and scientific laboratories, so that you can work to prevent the emergence and spread of these terrible diseases ... "
    In general, one cannot but agree with this. But on the other hand, in recent decades, the current SES service, Ukrainian epidemiologists, microbiologists and veterinarians have managed to cope with both the prevention and spread of infectious diseases. So if the Americans were driven by the goal of further strengthening the reliability of our biosafety system, then why not just equip our specialists with modern equipment and train them? To conduct, as is customary in science, joint conferences, seminars, defending against infections together? Why build new centers by locking them with a key?
    It should be noted here that on August 11, veterinarians celebrated their professional holiday. On this day, the State Veterinary and Phytosanitary Service received 19 foreign delegations from Europe and the CIS countries. And foreign colleagues rated its activities in recent years as one of the best in controlling, detecting and preventing the occurrence of diseases among animals.
    The created system, according to experts, fully fulfills the functions assigned to it. This assessment also sounds in the Russian documentary film “Pig Swine. Biological War ”, commissioned by the Rosselkhoznadzor.
    So why did the Americans need to “modernize” what experts from Europe recognize as the best in the world? And will not the “modernization” ruin the already debugged system of domestic epizootic surveillance?
    “... Ukraine is involved in the implementation of the Biological Threat Reduction Program developed by the USA. Later, according to the decree of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, the State Committee for Medicine of Ukraine and the Ukrainian Academy of Agrarian Sciences were identified by additional executive bodies for the implementation of the program.
    Thanks to the joint efforts of the parties, in 2010 a tripartite Concept of Action for the implementation of the program and the development of the veterinary care system was signed. This concept provides for the construction of a new Central Reference Laboratory for Particularly Dangerous Animal Diseases on the basis of the NEC “IEKVM", Kharkov.
    Actually, in this regard, the reference laboratory provided for in Merefa does not contradict the norms.
    According to the NSC “IEKVM", the project has passed an examination in the Central Sanitary and Epidemiological Station of the Ministry of Health of Ukraine ... "
    And according to our data, this project has not passed any examination at the Central Health Service of the Ministry of Health. Yes, and logic should suggest that permits for the laboratory of especially dangerous animal diseases are the prerogative of the State Veterinary and Phytosanitary Service, and not the SES.
  44. Egoza
    Egoza 26 August 2013 17: 12 New
    +1
    Extension
    But it’s more important to understand the following.
    The project “Reducing biohazard in Ukraine” has expired on May 31 this year.
    Also, the expiration date of the accreditation certificate of the Pentagon's main contractor - the American company Black & Veatch, which was in charge of the construction of laboratories throughout Ukraine.
    And henceforth, various approvals of projects, their changes, expertise, and even more so attempts to erect laboratory facilities in Ukraine as part of this program, are illegitimate, or simply illegal.
    Most likely, the Americans will seek to prolong the agreement, but this process will require more than one summit, new assessments of the provisions written in 2005 (from the point of view of the current situation), etc., so that the examination remains to be long and comprehensive. This, of course, if Ukraine is an independent country, and not an American representative.
    “... We must face the truth - we are behind the modern understanding of biosafety both technologically and, most sadly, mentally. This lag began not yesterday and not two decades ago. This is a chronic lag that at some point can cost us all a lot ... "
    Golden words!
    “... In Merefa, they decided to place the laboratory, thanks to almost the only, but decisive argument - it is possible to equip an autonomous closed sewer there. Moreover, the sewage system that already exists in the town will not be activated - these two objects will be completely unrelated to each other. ”
    Meanwhile, the local ecological partnership Zelena Vezha (supervisor is M.V. Ruchkin) indicates that the small river Rzhavchik flows into the Mzha river, which flows into the river Mzha, 700 meters from the proposed construction site of the TsRL in Merefa, and in turn, into one of the largest tributaries of the Don is Seversky Donets. And in the event of an accident (due to negligence or accident), not only the entire east of Ukraine will be threatened with an outbreak of epidemics of especially dangerous diseases, but also our neighbor, the Russian Federation (Rostov Region and Krasnodar Territory), will get it. ”
  45. Egoza
    Egoza 26 August 2013 17: 15 New
    +1
    Extension
    Further, the press service of the Merefyansky Vestnik writes in general about something that does not fit in my head:
    “... After the construction of the laboratory in Merefa is completed, part of the facilities will simply move to a new place of residence without changing the direction of activity ...”
    What are you talking about? About mobile bio labs? Maybe the “MV” press service knows where it is planned to transfer “capacities” with especially dangerous pathogens - closer to Kharkov or closer to Russian borders?
    "... The inhabitants of Merefa are excited by the most incredible and ridiculous rumors ..."
    Yes, and how not to get excited here? But...
    “I want to reassure all readers,” etc.
    Some unsubscribe
    We also have at our disposal documents provided by an initiative group of residents of Merefa, Kharkov and the Kharkov region, which has been upholding the thresholds of various authorities since the beginning of the year with requests to clarify what kind of laboratory they are going to build in the Silk Station.
    The answers of officials show that no one really delves into the essence of what is happening here, engaging in habitual unsubscribing activities.
    So, for example, at the request of a resident of the Silk Station, V.A. Marchenko, the head of the Kharkiv Regional Council S. Chernov responded with a letter to the director of the NEC “IEKVM” B.T. another place. "
    The letter was signed on July 19, 2013. Once again, we recall that from May 31, 2013. It’s against the law to place a laboratory anywhere, because the US project has expired.
    Or, for example, the Kharkov interdistrict prosecutor for environmental law enforcement instructs Marchenko to arrange the appeal of the same Marchenko regarding the “construction of a militarized virus and biological facility in the Merefa residential area by the US Department of Defense” to the head of the Main Department of the Sanitary and Epidemiological Service in Kharkov region, although in this case we are talking about the laboratory of NAASU.
    It is curious that the prosecutor’s chief is generally not interested in whether the construction of an “American paramilitary facility with viruses” is legal. “On the results of the consideration of the appeal,” he writes, “please inform the applicant within the time period established by law.” Dot. The prosecutor’s office in this regard can not be disturbed.
    Local deputies are also contacting the Merefyansky City Council, to which Mr Stegniy’s “mantras” are sent on “compliance of the reference laboratory with the latest safety requirements.” (About what flagrant violations of sanitary norms and building regulations these laboratories are being built, 2000 wrote more than once.)
    “In addition,” B.T. Stegny answers to the locals, “the construction and further maintenance of the reference laboratory will create a significant number of jobs for local residents."
    That's really not funny. First, what jobs? Guards and cleaners? Are there many microbiologists and virologists among the residents of Merefa who will be allowed to work with “modern equipment” and especially dangerous infections? Secondly, the approximate staff in such laboratories is about 10-15 people, is that “significant”?
    Of course, there is a plus in the fact that thanks to the construction of the laboratory, the infrastructure of the housing estate will be “improved,” roads will be built, “lighting will be arranged on the territory of the institute’s sericulture department,” however, many merefyan and other residents of the Kharkov region. these assurances do not warm.
    They distribute leaflets among the townspeople and send appeals to newspapers.
  46. georg737577
    georg737577 26 August 2013 17: 15 New
    +1
    It personally seems to me that the post-Soviet history of Russia is no less interesting and also deserves a similar article ... And the drunken dancing Yeltsin is a symbol of this story ...
  47. Egoza
    Egoza 26 August 2013 17: 18 New
    +3
    Extension
    “We are not experimental rabbits!”
    “We are extremely concerned about the alleged construction of a permanent Central Reference Laboratory for the diagnosis of highly dangerous biological agents of animal origin.
    The laboratory is planned to be located at a distance of 100 meters from the housing. And 25 km from the million-plus city - Kharkov!
    The purpose of the CRL is to study the effects of pathogenic agents of especially dangerous infections on the environment, animals and, possibly, on humans. In this regard, we are afraid that pathogenic agents may be released into the environment as part of the experiment.
    The site for the construction of the hazardous facility was chosen by representatives of the donor, that is, the US military, on the basis of proposals from the NAAS of Ukraine and the National Scientific Center "Institute of Experimental and Clinical Medicine."
    Back in 2010, a delegation from the USA came to the Silk Station in Merefa, which, together with the director of the NSC “Institute of Experimental and Clinical Veterinary Medicine” Stegniy Boris Timofeevich, examined the territory without even entering the institute’s premises.
    After that, healthy blue spruces were "removed" from the territory of the proposed development, other green spaces were cleared, and several pits were drilled to collect soil samples.
    Neither in the regional council, nor in law enforcement agencies, including the prosecutor's office, no one knows about this construction.
    In the Kharkov region there are enough laboratories at the Institute. Mechnikov, the infectious diseases hospital and SES of various levels, which were always enough for the prevention and localization of any infections.
    Similar reference laboratories built by the US Department of Defense in other countries, such as Georgia, are military sensitive facilities; they are not disguised as purely medical, like ours.
    We do not want Kharkov and Kharkov region. turned into a testing ground for testing pathogenic microbes. We must not allow the US military to use us as guinea pigs in the development of biological weapons. Or as a human shield, if the Americans decide to use the TsRL against Russia.
    This is an outright betrayal of the interests of citizens of Ukraine and our neighboring Russian Federation.
    We will not let our people disappear from the face of the earth! ”

    Well, it is said, perhaps a little emotionally, but it's hard to argue with that.
    Anton SERGIENKO
    http://2000.net.ua/2000/derzhava/u-cherty/92962
  48. Makhno
    Makhno 26 August 2013 18: 46 New
    -1
    Quote: retired
    I’m wondering: is the example of Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Greece of Ukrainian integration of Ukrainian citizens not worrying?

    What is such an example? The best example of a "plight" would be the massive exodus of ethnic Russians from these supposedly "poverty-stricken" countries into the bosom of a prosperous mother Russia. Announce the number of these for the last 2-3 years. By the way, you can also cite statistics on the resettlement of the population from "poverty-stricken" Ukraine to prosperous Russia, within the framework of the "State Program to Assist the Voluntary Resettlement of Compatriots Living Abroad to the Russian Federation."
  49. Makhno
    Makhno 26 August 2013 20: 23 New
    -2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Yes, there were good articles before, but the result is deplorable. Russia reaches out and spit in it. Tired of wiping their hands.

    And you asked us if we, Ukraine, need this "brotherly" outstretched hand? No, well, in fact, that you are so imposing on us your friendship and some kind of mythical "brotherhood", why are you so distressed from the Ukrainian flag and coat of arms?
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 26 August 2013 20: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: Makhno
      And you asked us if we, Ukraine, need this "brotherly" outstretched hand?

      For me personally - "You are nobody and call you in any way" and I don’t need your Ukraine for nothing to beg you and others like you about friendship and brotherhood. I have another Ukraine - the one where my relatives, college and school classmates, work colleagues, friends, army fellow soldiers remained. Here I stretch the hand of friendship and brotherhood to them, and I know for sure that they are the same. And people like us are the MOST!
      1. Makhno
        Makhno 26 August 2013 21: 41 New
        -3
        Quote: Garrin
        For me personally - "You are nobody and call you in any way" and I don’t need your Ukraine for nothing to beg you and others like you about friendship and brotherhood.

        Likewise, you are nobody for me, and so on! Otherwise, you are too mistaken or wishful thinking, especially about the "majority". There is some part that gravitates towards Russia, but alas and ah, it is far from the majority, which never existed. I understand how your great-power chauvinism is boiling over, my friend, but again, it never really happened. I live in Ukraine, and should I not know how things are with this? When will you finally realize that even a good neighbor, when he annoyingly breaks into your apartment and tells you how you should arrange furniture in your apartment and in what language to communicate, causes only irritation and not too "brotherly" feelings?
        We are all neighbors in one common house named Earth, and Russian is no closer to me and no closer than a Frenchman, Greek, or, say, Japanese, the same neighbor. If possible, we should try to live with ALL neighbors in peace and friendship, but we should not be impudent, crap our neighbor under the doors and sit on our heads. This is MY PERSONAL opinion, but it coincides with the opinion of so many Ukrainians.
        I will add only one thing, I served in Irkutsk and on Belaya, I have relatives and friends in Russia, but I do not want to go to Russia and the TS.
        1. Garrin
          Garrin 26 August 2013 22: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Makhno
          There is a certain part gravitating toward Russia, but alas, and by no means, far from the majority, which never existed.

          In my Ukraine, this majority has been and will be.
          Quote: Makhno
          what language to communicate in, causes only irritation and not too "brotherly" feelings

          You, who always did not perceive with tridents, especially when the "mov" began to be forcibly implanted and Russian schools were closed.
          Quote: Makhno
          but do not be impudent, crap to a neighbor under the door and sit on your head.

          But this is just a favorite pastime, the so-called Ukrainians.
          1. Makhno
            Makhno 26 August 2013 22: 40 New
            -2
            Quote: Garrin
            In my Ukraine, this majority has been and will be.

            Stay in a happy delusion, such an ostrich policy works against you.
            You, who always didn’t perceive with tridents, especially

            It's somehow purely violet to me whether any individual perceives our trident. I'm not talking about your "tricolor", under which the ROA fought.
            when "MOV" began to be forcibly implanted and Russian schools were closed.

            The official language, my friend ... does this concept really mean anything to you? As far as I know in Russia, the state language is Russian. Try to object.
            But this is just a favorite pastime, the so-called Ukrainians.
            All this, like your previous quote, says the opposite. Such a neighbor, even a relative, does not evoke fraternal feelings, for he indicates how I should live, with whom to live, and what language my family should speak in my apartment.
  50. crest 57
    crest 57 26 August 2013 21: 27 New
    0
    Ukraine is now an occupied territory, as in the period 1941-1944. The only difference is that at that time in the RSFSR and other republics no one shouted "Why should we liberate Ukoain?" For any Russian, Ukraine was "My land", period. Now everything depends on whether the Russians, as they did then, again say "Ukraine is my land."
    1. Makhno
      Makhno 26 August 2013 22: 22 New
      0
      Ukraine has chosen the European vector of development and for them it is lost forever.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 26 August 2013 22: 27 New
        +1
        And what is the "European vector"? Do you know what you are writing about, or are you mindlessly quoting?
        1. Makhno
          Makhno 26 August 2013 23: 07 New
          -1
          Do you know or about gays, devastation and poverty will begin to broadcast?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 26 August 2013 23: 24 New
            0
            Somehow you are not answering a question in Ukrainian at all. It is very likely that you simply do not know that this is a "European vector". Moreover, most likely those who hang these vectors on your ears do not know either.
            1. Makhno
              Makhno 26 August 2013 23: 41 New
              -1
              Do you know what the question is, such is the answer, nothing personal. You, God, have believed in your exceptionalism and think that no one knows anything except you, doesn’t know, doesn’t understand, and so on. Believe in your special and correct way of development and try to impose it on everyone. And what in the end ??? Almost all of your closest neighbors have turned their backs on you. You have been striving hard for this and, it seems, have achieved it.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 27 August 2013 00: 07 New
                0
                The question is normal. You have to understand the terms. But there is no answer. And it won't. "European vector" ("European choice") is a common propaganda cliche like "axis of evil" or "decaying capitalism". Moreover, none of the supporters of this "vector" or "choice" of the meaning of this expression can explain. You are not the first person to whom I ask this simple question.
                1. Makhno
                  Makhno 27 August 2013 09: 47 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  The question is normal. It’s necessary to understand the terms. But there is no answer. Yes and never will. .... You are not the first to whom I ask this simple question.

                  See my previous post. You are a priori sure that "stupid xo ... s" are unable to comprehend what it is and how the EU differs for the better from the CU. And who will give you the answer to "this simplest question" with such a statement of the question?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 27 August 2013 10: 24 New
                    0
                    And why immediately the vehicle? You are not able to be independent, do you need a leading and directing force from Moscow or Brussels?

                    Quote: Makhno
                    And who will give you the answer to "this simplest question" with such a statement of the question?

                    Are you offended by the question "what is the European vector"? What is it about him that is unpleasant for a real Ukrainian patriot? That he is unable to answer it?