Military Review

The battleship "Novorossiysk" in 1955, blew up the combat swimmers of the Italian Navy?

136
The battleship "Novorossiysk" in 1955, blew up the combat swimmers of the Italian Navy?

10th Swimmers Special Forces Veteran flotilla The Italian Navy reported that the battleship of the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR Navy Novorossiysk, which had died under mysterious circumstances on October 29, 1955, was blown up by Italian combat swimmers. Hugo de Esposito made this confession in an interview with the Italian edition of 4Arts.


Hugo de Esposito is a former employee of the Italian Military Intelligence Service, and an expert in closed (encrypted) communications. According to him, the Italians did not want the battleship, the former Italian dreadnought “Giulio Cesare”, to go to the “Russians”, so they took care to destroy it. This is the first direct recognition from the Italian military that they were involved in the explosion and the death of the battleship. Prior to this, Admiral Gino Birindelli and other veterans of the Italian special forces denied the fact that the Italians were involved in the death of the ship.

In 2005, Itogi magazine announced similar material on the death of the battleship Novorossiysk. The magazine posted the story of a former Soviet naval officer who emigrated to the United States, who met with the last of the survivors of the sabotage attack "Nicolo". The Italian said that when the transfer of the Italian ships of the USSR, the former commander of the 10 fleet Yunio Valerio Scipione Borghese (1906 - 1974), nicknamed “The Black Prince”, swore an oath to avenge the disgrace of Italy and blow up the battleship, which took place, took place. Aristocrat Borghese did not throw words to the wind.

After the war, the vigilance of the Soviet sailors was dulled. The Italians knew the waters well - during the Great Patriotic War, the 10-I fleet of the MAS (from Italian. Mezzi d'Assalto - assault vehicles, or Italian. Motoscafo Armato Silurante - armed torpedo boats) operated on the Black Sea. During the year there was preparation, the executors were eight saboteurs. October 21 1955 of the year from Italy left a cargo ship, which went to one of the Dnieper ports for loading grain. At midnight on October 26, in 15 miles of the traverse of the Chersonese lighthouse, a cargo ship fired a mini-submarine from a special hatch in the bottom. The submarine "Picollo" passed to the area of ​​the Sevastopol Omega Bay, where a temporary base was set up. With the help of hydrobucks, the sabotage group reached Novorossiysk, work began on laying the charges. Twice Italian divers returned to Omega for the explosives that were in magnetic cylinders. Successfully able to dock to the cargo ship and leave.

Strategic trophy

The ship of the line Giulio Cesare is one of five ships of the Conte di Cavour type. The project was developed by Rear Admiral Edoardo Masdea. He proposed a ship with five main-caliber gun turrets: on the bow and stern the lower turrets were three-gun, the upper - two-gun. Another three-gun turret was placed amidships - between the pipes. The caliber of the guns was 305-mm. Julius Caesar was laid out in the 1910 year and commissioned in the 1914 year. In 1920, the ship went through the first upgrades, received a catapult to launch a seaplane and a crane to lift the plane from the water and onto a catapult, and the artillery fire control system was replaced. The battleship became a training artillery ship. In 1933 — 1937 "Julius Caesar" was overhauled by the project of engineer-general Francesco Rotundi. The power of the main-caliber guns was increased to 320-mm (their number was reduced to 10), the firing range was increased, booking and anti-torpedo protection were enhanced, boilers and other mechanisms were replaced. The guns could shoot up to 32 km with more than half-ton shells. The displacement of the ship increased to 24 thousand tons.

During World War II, the ship participated in a number of military operations. In 1941, due to lack of fuel, the combat activity of old ships was reduced. In 1942, "Julius Caesar" was withdrawn from the existing fleet. In addition to the lack of fuel, there was a high risk of the death of a battleship from a torpedo strike under domination aviation the enemy in the air. The ship until the end of the war was turned into a floating barracks. After the armistice, the Allied command initially wanted to keep the Italian battleships under its control, but then three old ships, including Caesar, were allowed to transfer the Italian Navy for educational use.

According to a special agreement, the victorious powers divided the Italian fleet against reparations. Moscow claimed a new battleship of the type “Littorio”, but the USSR transferred only the outdated “Caesar”, as well as the light cruiser “Emanuele Filiberto duca d'Aosta” (“Kerch”), 9 destroyers, 4 submarines and several auxiliary vessels. The final agreement on the division of the transferred Italian ships between the USSR, the USA, England and other states affected by the Italian aggression was concluded on January 10 1947 at the Council of Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the Allied Powers. In particular, the French have transferred 4 cruisers. 4 destroyer and 2 submarines, Greece - one cruiser. New battleships went to the United States and Britain, later they were returned to Italy as part of the NATO partnership.

Until 1949, Caesar was preserved and used for training. He was in a severely neglected state. The battleship was included in the Black Sea Fleet. 5 March 1949, the battleship was named Novorossiysk. In the next six years, a significant amount of work was done on the Novorossiysk to repair and upgrade the battleship. It was equipped with short-range anti-aircraft artillery, new radars, radio communications and shipborne communications, modernized main-caliber firing controls, replaced emergency diesel generators, changed Italian turbines to Soviet ones (increasing the ship’s speed to 28 units). By the time of its death, the Novorossiysk was the most powerful ship of the Soviet fleet. He had ten 320-mm guns, 12 x 120-mm and 8 x 100-mm guns, 30 x 37-mm anti-aircraft guns. The ship’s displacement reached 29 thousand tons, with a length of 186 meters and a width of 28 meters.

Despite its advanced age, the battleship was the ideal ship for an atomic experiment. His 320-mm guns hit targets at a distance of 32 km with 525 kg shells, which were suitable for placing tactical nuclear warheads in them. Back in 1949, when the Soviet Union received the status of a nuclear power, the battleship was visited by the Minister of War Marshal Alexander Vasilevsky, and in 1953 - by the new Minister of Defense, Nikolai Bulganin. In 1955, the regular Minister of Defense of the USSR, Georgy Zhukov, extended the life of Novorossiysk by 10 years. The program on the atomic modernization of the battleship involved two stages. At the first stage they planned to develop and manufacture a batch of special equipment with atomic charges. On the second, to replace the turrets with installations for cruise missiles that can be equipped with nuclear warheads. In the Soviet military factories, in the first place, they worked on the manufacture of a batch of special equipment. The gunners of the ship, under the command of the most experienced commander of the battleship Captain 1 of the rank of Alexander Pavlovich Kukhta, solved the problem of controlling the fire of main caliber guns. All 10 main-caliber guns could now fire at a single target.

The tragic death of "Novorossiysk"

October 28 The Novorossiysk 1955 was located in the North Bay of Sevastopol. A. Kukhta was on vacation. It is believed that if he were on the ship, the events that followed the explosion could have developed in a different way, in a less tragic course. Acting captain of the ship 2 rank G.A. Khurshudov departed ashore. The senior officer on the battleship was the assistant ship commander Z. G. Serbulov. October 29 in 1 hour 31 minute under the nose of the ship there was a powerful explosion, equivalent to 1-1,2 tons of trinitrotoluene. The blast, to some it seemed doubled, pierced through the multi-storey armored hull of a huge warship from the bottom to the upper deck. Was formed huge to 170 square meters, a hole in the bottom of the starboard. Water gushed into it, breaking the dural interior bulkheads and flooding the ship.

Vzvyv, occurred in the most densely populated part of the ship, where hundreds of sailors slept in the bow cockpit. At the very beginning, before the 150-175 people died, about the same number was injured. Scores of the wounded were heard from the holes, the noise of the incoming water, the remains of the dead floated. Some confusion arose, they even considered that a war had begun, they hit the ship from the air, declared an emergency and then a battle alarm on the battleship. The crew took the place according to the combat schedule, shells were sent to the anti-aircraft guns. The sailors used all available energy and drainage means. Emergency teams tried to localize the consequences of the disaster. Serbulov organized the rescue of people from flooded premises and began to prepare the wounded to be sent to the shore. The battleship was planned to be towed to the nearest sandbank. Emergency consignments and medical teams began to arrive from nearby cruisers. Began to approach and rescue ships.

At that time, the tragic mistake was made; the Vice-Admiral V.A. Parkhomenko, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, arrived on the battleship and gave the order to suspend the towing of the Novorossiysk to the shallows. When they tried to renew it, it was already too late. The bow of the battleship has already sat on the ground. Khurshudov, seeing that the list on the port side was increasing and he could not stop the flow of water, suggested that part of the crew be evacuated. He was supported by Rear Admiral Nikolai I. Nikolsky. People began to gather at the stern. Comflot made a new mistake, under the pretext of maintaining calm ("We will not breed panic!"), He stopped the evacuation. When the decision to evacuate was made, the ship began to rapidly overturn upside down. Many people remained inside the ship, others could not swim out after capsizing. In 4 hours 14 minutes the battleship "Novorossiysk" lay on the port side, and after a moment turned over with the keel. In this state, the ship lasted up to 22 hours.

Inside the ship were many people who fought to the end for its survival. Some of them were still alive, remaining in the "air bags". They knocked the message about themselves. The sailors, without waiting for instructions from above, opened the bottom paneling at the stern of the battleship and saved 7 people. Success inspired, began to cut in other places, but to no avail. Air exited the ship. They tried to repair the gaps, but it was already useless. The battleship finally sank. In the last minutes, following the prototype of a direct conversational soundbridge connection, which was brought to the scene of the accident, it was heard how Soviet sailors sang "Varyag". Soon everything was quiet. A day later, in one of the feeding cockpit discovered alive. Divers were able to pull the two sailors. 1 November divers stopped hearing any knocking from battleships battleships. October 31 buried the first batch of dead sailors. They were escorted by all the surviving “Novorossiyskists”, dressed in full dress uniforms, they marched through the entire city.

In 1956, work began on raising the battleship using the blowing method. She was led by the special purpose expedition EON-35. Preliminary work completed in April 1957. May 4 ship floated up the keel - first nose, and then feed. 14 May (according to other information, 28 May) the battleship was towed to Cossack Bay. Then it was disassembled and transferred to the Zaporizhstal plant.

Opinion of the government commission

A government commission headed by the deputy chairman of the Soviet Council of Ministers Council, the minister of the shipbuilding industry, Colonel General of Engineering and Technical Services, Vyacheslav Malyshev, concluded two weeks and a half after the tragedy. 17 November report submitted to the CPSU Central Committee. The Central Committee of the Communist Party adopted and approved the findings. The cause of the death of "Novorossiysk" considered an underwater explosion, apparently, the German magnetic mine, which remained at the bottom since the Second World War.

Versions of the explosion of a fuel depot or artillery cellars were swept away almost immediately. The capacity of the fuel depot on the ship was empty long before the tragedy. If the artillery grab had exploded, the battleship would be blown to pieces, and the neighboring ships would have suffered seriously. This version was refuted by the testimony of the sailors. Shells remained safe and sound.

Responsible for the death of people and the ship were the fleet Parkhomenko, Rear Admiral Nikolsky, a member of the Military Council of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice Admiral Kulakov, Captain 2 of the rank Khurshudov, acting commander of the battleship. They were demoted in rank and position. Also, the punishment was borne by Rear Admiral Galitsky - the commander of the division for the protection of the water area. The distribution also included commander of the battleship A. P. Kukht, he was demoted to the rank of captain of the 2 rank and sent to the reserve. The Commission noted that the personnel of the ship to the end fought for its survival, showed examples of real courage and heroism. However, all the efforts of the crew to save the ship were negated by the "criminally frivolous, unqualified" command.

In addition, this tragedy was the reason to remove from the post of Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Nikolai Kuznetsov. Khrushchev did not like him, since this largest naval commander resisted plans to “optimize” the fleet (Stalin’s programs to turn the USSR Navy into an ocean fleet went under the knife).

Versions

1) Most of the votes won version of the mine. These munitions were not uncommon in Sevastopol Bay, starting from the times of the Civil War. Already during the Great Patriotic War, the German Air Force and Navy mined the waters from the sea and from the air. The bay was regularly cleaned by diving teams and trawled, they discovered mines. In 1956-1958 already after the death of Novorossiysk, 19 of German bottom mines was found, including at the site of the death of the Soviet ship. However, this version has weak spots. It is believed that by 1955, the power sources of all bottom mines should have already been discharged. Yes, and fuses would be unusable by this time. Before the tragedy, on a barrel number 3 “Novorossiysk” 10 times moored, and the battleship “Sevastopol” 134 times. No one exploded. In addition, it turned out that there were two explosions.

2) Torpedo attack. It was suggested that the battleship was attacked by an unknown submarine. But when clarifying the circumstances of the tragedy, the characteristic signs of the torpedo remaining from the attack were not found. But they found out that the ships of the division for the protection of the water area, which were to guard the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, were at a different place at the time of the explosion. On the night of the death of the battleship, the outer raid by the Soviet ships was not guarded; the network gate was open, the noise grinders did not work. Thus, the Sevastopol naval base was defenseless. Theoretically, the enemy could penetrate it. An enemy mini-submarine or a diversionary unit could penetrate the internal raid of the main base of the Black Sea Fleet.


3) Subversive group. "Novorossiysk" could destroy the Italian combat swimmers. The Italian flotilla of marine subversive saboteurs already had experience of penetrating small submarines into a foreign harbor. 18 December 1941 Italian saboteurs under the command of Lieutenant Commander Borghese secretly penetrated the harbor of Alexandria and magnetic explosives heavily damaged British battleships "Veliant", "Queen Elizabeth", the destroyer HMS Jarvis and destroyed the tanker. In addition, the Italians knew the waters - 10-I fleet was based in the ports of the Crimea. Taking into account sloppiness in the field of port security, this version looks pretty convincing. In addition, there is an opinion that the experts of the British Navy's 12 flotilla participated in the operation (or it was completely organized and conducted). Her commander then was another man-legend - 2 captain of the rank Lionel Crabb. He was one of the best submarine saboteurs of the fleet of Great Britain. In addition, after the war, captive Italian experts from the 10 fleet consulted the British. London had a weighty reason for the destruction of Novorossiysk - its future atomic armament. England was the most vulnerable target for tactical nuclear weapons. It is noted that at the end of October 1955, the Mediterranean squadron of the British fleet conducted exercises in the Aegean and Marmara Seas. However, if this is true, the question arises, what did the KGB and counterintelligence do? Their work during this period was considered very effective. Overlooked the operation of the enemy right under his nose? In addition, the iron evidence of this version is not. All publications in print are not very reliable.

4) KGB operation. Novorossiysk was drowned by order of the highest political leadership of the USSR. This sabotage was directed against the top leadership of the Soviet fleet. Khrushchev was engaged in the "optimization" of the armed forces, relying on rocket troops, and in the navy - on a submarine fleet armed with missiles. The death of "Novorossiysk" allowed to strike at the leadership of the Navy, which was against the reduction of "obsolete" ships and curtailing the program of building up the forces of the surface fleet, increasing its power. From a technical point of view, this version is very logical. The battleship was undermined by two charges with a total TNT equivalent of 1,8 tons. They were installed on the ground near the bow artillery cellars, at a short distance from the center plane of the ship and from each other. The explosions occurred with a short time interval, which caused a cumulative effect and damage, as a result of which Novorossiysk sank. Given the treacherous policy of Khrushchev, who destroyed the basic systems of the state and tried to make a "restructuring" back in 1950-1960-s, this version has a right to exist. Suspicious and hasty liquidation of the ship, after it was raised. Novorossiysk was quickly cut into scrap metal, and the case was closed.

Do we ever know the truth about the tragic death of hundreds of Soviet sailors? Most likely no. If there is no reliable data from the archives of Western intelligence agencies or the KGB.
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  1. Jacob31
    Jacob31 24 August 2013 07: 32 New
    15
    It is very mean-spirited from this Hitler litter, it was necessary to tear money from three skins then or now !!!
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 24 August 2013 09: 04 New
      26
      About the "Italian trace" was written in the late 80's. This version has always been present. But the Italian government is unlikely to recognize the fact of the participation of its special services in the death of Novorossiysk
      1. Siberian
        Siberian 24 August 2013 13: 15 New
        +5
        Or maybe they have, so far, "under the stamp of secrecy" until a certain year?
        1. alone
          alone 24 August 2013 17: 33 New
          +4
          Quote: Siberian
          Or maybe they have, so far, "under the stamp of secrecy" until a certain year?


          it can’t be, but precisely under the heading "secretly", maybe even under the item of lifelong disagreement.
      2. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 24 August 2013 15: 04 New
        18
        Quote: xetai9977
        About the "Italian trace" was written in the late 80's. This version has always been present. But the Italian government is unlikely to recognize the fact of the participation of its special services in the death of Novorossiysk

        Whether this is or not is a moot point. But no one will recognize anything in any case.
        Each state has many skeletons in the closet, it was and will be.
        The question is different?
        As having so much time after the explosion, he manages to drown the ship in his bay. It defies any logic. This indicates the level of leadership training.
        And Rear Admiral Nikolsky, instead of allowing the captain of the ship to perform his direct duties, stuck his pig's nose in what was a complete ram. Significantly arranged a tea party with the highest command of the ship aboard the sinking ship, instead of taking the ship aground.
        1. avt
          avt 24 August 2013 15: 21 New
          +3
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          instead of taking the ship aground.

          I don’t remember it, but it seems that someone from the approaching rescuer, Karabakh, said that it would be enough to anchor and drown in place so that it would not tip over. But you are right - one of the conclusions was that the top command was taught to fight, but not to fight for survivability, but the crew fought selflessly for the ship! In general, this old one, from the time of the First World War, didn’t need an old ship, even the newer ,, Littorio ”allies were cut immediately, and that was the same thing.
        2. Beck
          Beck 25 August 2013 12: 03 New
          +3
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          Significantly arranged a tea party with the highest command of the ship aboard the sinking ship, instead of taking the ship aground.


          And when the battleship turned over everything was done illiterate.

          In order to save the sailors who remained in the air bubbles of the inner rooms, a type of "rescue chamber" was let down on the bottom. Sealed it from atmospheric pressure and cut a piece of the bottom. Allowed either 3 or 5 sailors. And instead of brewing the bottom again and moving the “camera” to another place, the “camera” was simply depressurized. Pressure equalized and water filled everything. The ship sank.
      3. denson06
        denson06 25 August 2013 01: 00 New
        +2
        Judging by the publication, they are already recognized .. and not someone outsider, but the Veteran of the special forces of the combat swimmers of the 10th flotilla of the Italian Navy Hugo de Esposito .. it’s strange, does it make sense for an elderly person to make such revelations after so many years and lie at the same time? .. although everything is possible .. there is still no other evidence ..
        1. vadson
          vadson 25 August 2013 18: 24 New
          0
          maybe in old age, conscience tortured, or decided to remove the sin from the soul, and so I opened up
          1. Shumka
            Shumka 25 August 2013 22: 02 New
            +4
            Quote: vadson
            maybe in old age, conscience tortured, or decided to remove the sin from the soul, and so I opened up

            Conscience, not conscience - the aircraft carrier England is high time to drown, a nursery of meanness and thirst for profit, vile people. as they say - it’s bad to have an Englishman in enemies, but God forbid to be friends with him, '' Koryak, but something like that.
          2. Alex
            Alex 6 February 2014 15: 48 New
            +2
            Oh guys, something I don’t really believe in these belated revelations of those veterans (I’ll leave aside the question of how old they were during the war and what they could know at all). Chat now, whatever you want, you can, go check it out. And so a lump of dirt will fly into the victorious opponent (that’s how cool we are, even after 10 years we got it), we ourselves look like heroes, and you can personally show off before neighbors from the house of people with disabilities before death. In short, I don’t believe in the “pasta trail”. But the Angles - this is another matter, they are enemies with history, without conscience and with a solid reserve of meanness.
            1. shasherin_pavel
              shasherin_pavel 6 February 2014 17: 52 New
              0
              Young apparently you are still a guy. The version of Italian swimmers was born not today and not yesterday, but in the seventies, since in the same year, in Italy, the highest order of Italy was assigned posthumously to a combat swimmer.
    2. Mitek
      Mitek 24 August 2013 09: 09 New
      +4
      Quote: Jacob31
      It is very mean-spirited from this Hitler litter, it was necessary to tear money from three skins then or now !!!

      Most likely the bomb was planted before the transfer of the ship. And the saboteurs had to activate it. The number of towed explosives was supposed to be very large, as it seems to me.
      1. redwolf_13
        redwolf_13 24 August 2013 11: 08 New
        +1
        If you know where and how it is of a large quantity and it is not necessary. Although the 10th flotilla worked wonders in the English bays in the Adriatic. If it’s interesting about the "people of the frogs" then here is http://www.gramotey.com/?open_file=92644596
        And there is also a magnificent film made by the British and is called "people-frogs". The work of the 10th IAU flotilla and the formation of the anti-sabotage service of England are well shown there.
        1. Alex
          Alex 6 February 2014 15: 55 New
          0
          Quote: redwolf_13
          Although the 10 flotilla worked wonders in the English bays in the Adriatic.
          She didn’t do any special miracles. I must say right away that the statement is not unfounded; I read Borghese. The hole, of course, was done in English battleships, but nothing more. “Queen Elizabeth,” even the fighting ability has not lost, only the ability to move, and even then not for long. He sat on the bottom, but on top of this was not noticeable (depth is shallow). With “Valiant” a little more complicated, but also not catastrophic. Both have been repaired and go into operation. And the illiterate choice of the object of attack (huge ships in a shallow bay) in general speaks of their "skill". In general, everything is Italian: most importantly, there was a lot of noise. Well, the fact that it’s nonsense is no longer important.
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 6 February 2014 18: 01 New
            0
            These are battleships, not destroyers. Even replacing worn guns on a battleship requires eight months of work. And when the enemy finds out that the battlecruiser is out of order, he understands that he has a safe time for maneuvering convoys and evacuating, and allocating his ships for other purposes not related to intercepting the enemy’s battleships at sea. This is a preponderance of their forces at sea and a predominance over the enemy during a landing or troop transport. The battleship is not a skittle in a bowling alley, dropped and set back. Even damage to the “Bismarck” went down in the history of the British Navy, as a victory and the restoration of its dominance in the sea.
      2. Mister X
        Mister X 24 August 2013 17: 37 New
        +3
        Quote: Mitek
        Most likely the bomb was planted before the transfer of the ship. And the saboteurs had to activate it.

        That is unlikely.
        Over the next six years, a significant amount of work was done on Novorossiysk to repair and modernize the battleship.

        I do not think that in 47, the battleship was adopted "without looking."
        I understand that it’s difficult to search even a pleasure yacht, not like a big ship.
        But during those 6 years, while the ship was undergoing modernization work, it would probably stumble upon a charge.
      3. Uzoliv
        Uzoliv 24 August 2013 21: 45 New
        +5
        Quote: Mitek
        Most likely the bomb was planted before the transfer of the ship.

        The version does not roll - the edges of the hole were bent inside the case.
      4. alone
        alone 24 August 2013 21: 51 New
        +3
        the ship was repaired several times, in addition, it undergoes a full check at reception, even loopholes are checked. Do you want to say that the ship was checked by boobies?
    3. S-200
      S-200 24 August 2013 18: 10 New
      +7
      It hurts ... VERY painful! There were enemies, there are and ... WILL!
      mediocre commanders were, are, and wanted, NOT TO BE ...

      Eternal memory to sailors who fought to the death with the "Varangian" in their hearts ...[
      PS and the Italians, in spite of their natural genius (even with our location) ... G-OV-BUT soldiers (and you can’t believe their words), they could only do something out of thinness ..
      PPS Our Navy owes it to the Italians for Novorossiysk and to the amers for Kursk ... debts must be paid handsomely angry
  2. Sakhalininsk
    Sakhalininsk 24 August 2013 07: 39 New
    +2
    “Novorossiysk” is a big tragedy, the fact that the death of this ship is not an accident is clear, most likely it is really a well-planned and implemented diversion. It’s a pity that they didn’t immediately establish it because of sloppiness, but if it were to catch the culprits then it would be more likely that Italy or Small Britain would be multiplied by zero for such an activity.
    1. old man54
      old man54 24 August 2013 17: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      and then, if the perpetrators were to be caught, there would be a high probability that Italy or Small Britain would be multiplied by zero for such an activity.

      out for the K-141 submarine Kursk something under the flag from a prison robe something is not really something "multiplied by zero" !!! angry
  3. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 24 August 2013 08: 01 New
    +4
    The attack of the armed forces of one state by the ship of another state is an act of war. 614 people died. How will we answer?

    Goals for the answer:

    Time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavour_(550)

    Два: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B5_%D
    0%93%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B4%D0%B8_(%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D
    0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%86)
    1. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 24 August 2013 08: 09 New
      +6
      But Kursk was lowered by brakes. The Third World was just not enough. America for torpedoing Kursk dumped the money for which Polyarny built apartments for the families of the deceased sailors, kindergartens and schools, and forgave for the debt - the remainder of the lend-lease. Or is it all to change to World War III?
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 24 August 2013 09: 01 New
        +6
        Quote: shasherin_pavel
        But Kursk was lowered by brakes.
        This article about Kursk reminded me too ((.
      2. Taidrem
        Taidrem 24 August 2013 09: 22 New
        +4
        And that money is more important than the life of our sailors! Let there not be world war 3 but there shouldn’t be a relationship with them! Although it is still necessary to recognize the fact that at that time we were very vulnerable and weak, it was probably a provocation. Such decisions must not be made by us, for this is too serious a question.
        1. Suhov
          Suhov 24 August 2013 11: 22 New
          12
          Quote: Taidrem
          And what is more important than money the lives of our sailors!

          The question is posed correctly.
          Eye for eye, tooth for tooth ...
          We must act as one well-known Western intelligence agency, which at work ignores both statutes of limitations and state borders.
          The death of their compatriots cannot be left unanswered.
          You can take money, but you must be avenged: whatever would be disgraceful.
          1. Asgard
            Asgard 24 August 2013 14: 45 New
            15
            Guys !!!
            You can do it yourself, the main thing that the head was on the shoulders))))
            The state, special services help Kadyrov, who speaksumthat at 16 he killed the first Russian ...
            To his father (kingdom of heaven))) Akhmat ... who said, kill the Russians as much as you can ...

            vacation should be enough)))
            with appropriate training ....
            1. alone
              alone 24 August 2013 17: 35 New
              +5
              By the way, as soon as the first company began, Ahmad Kadyrov, as a mufti of Chechnya, announced "jihad."
          2. old man54
            old man54 24 August 2013 17: 50 New
            +4
            Quote: Sukhov
            Eye for eye, tooth for tooth ...

            Quote: Sukhov
            The death of their compatriots cannot be left unanswered. You can take money, but you must take revenge: whatever would be disgraceful.

            You "+" from me, sorry 10 can not be delivered. hi
            This must not be forgotten or forgiven! And to fight at full is not necessary! But the enemies must clearly understand that any of their dirty tricks will burp them with bloody snot !!
          3. Alex
            Alex 6 February 2014 16: 04 New
            0
            Quote: Taidrem
            And that money is more important than the life of our sailors!
            No more important, this is without discussion! But state wisdom (or cunning, if you want) is also necessary. To aggravate, knowing that you will still get on the head (or on the teeth at best) - this is not evidence of a great mind, but rather posturing.

            It’s more correct to do this:
            Quote: Sukhov
            You can take money, but you must be avenged: whatever would be disgraceful.
            Maybe someone will reproach us, which, they say, is not gentlemanly, it’s impossible ... But as for me, it’s impossible with scum to do otherwise. Correctly "God's chosen people" in this regard
            ignores both statutes of limitations and state borders.
            .
            Ah, where is our little silushka, maybe once again thirty years is enough to sit on the stove in the seat ...
        2. fartfraer
          fartfraer 25 August 2013 06: 04 New
          +2
          "Although we still have to admit the fact that at that time we were very vulnerable and weak," - at that time (after the Second World War) the union was not vulnerable and weak. Who was strong then, I wonder?))
      3. Corsair
        Corsair 24 August 2013 17: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: shasherin_pavel
        But Kursk was lowered by brakes. The Third World was just not enough.

        It turns out that the Italians are our debtors ...
        1. old man54
          old man54 24 August 2013 17: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: Corsair
          Quote: shasherin_pavel
          But Kursk was lowered by brakes. The Third World was just not enough.

          It turns out that the Italians are our debtors ...

          No, they are not this, someone else!
          1. VOLCHOXURAL
            VOLCHOXURAL 25 August 2013 12: 28 New
            +2
            And I will agree !!! Not they that. They must be given their due - they themselves overthrew their fascist rule. And past this, in all the post-war years, and to this day, the Italians have not shown any enemy sentiment towards us! Against this background, the question of revenge for the honor of the nation also seems illusive! What about the risks? In case of failure (identification of the instigators) of this special operation, for Italy this would be a real political P.I. But the Anglo-Saxons by any means involved in this! From them most of all you should expect such knives in the back !!! And for the death of so many HEROES, to the end singing "VARYAG" !!! I would drown all theirs of Anglo-Saxony in the Atlantic without hesitation !!! Forever! And the world would get better !!!
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 25 August 2013 12: 35 New
              -1
              The explosion of the battleship Novorossiysk in the Sevastopol Bay, which claimed the lives of 1955 people in 614, was the result of a diversion of Italian security services.
              Such recognition in an interview with the Italian edition of 4Arts was made by the veteran of the special unit of combat swimmers "Gamma" Hugo d'Esposito, reports the Kiev portal "Historical truth".
              The veteran explained that the Italians did not want the former battleship "Giulio Cesare", inherited by the Russians after the end of World War II, to remain part of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet.
              “They did their best,” said the saboteur.
              The publication emphasizes that the words of Hugo d'Esposito are the first recognition of the Italian military's involvement in the destruction of the Novorossiysk. Prior to this, they categorically denied a similar version.
        2. Starover_Z
          Starover_Z 24 August 2013 18: 59 New
          +4
          It turns out that the Italians are our debtors ...
          Not debtors - KROVNIKI !!!
        3. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 25 August 2013 08: 59 New
          +2
          But not for Caesar Julius, what measures to measure Russia's damage from the Allies: Germany, Hungary, Romania, Italy. But is it possible that one “Normandy Neman” can compensate the French corps, defeated in 41 on the field of Borodino? The Finns almost forgot. After all, it was with their participation that the blockade of Leningrad was carried out.
    2. ildar335
      ildar335 24 August 2013 15: 02 New
      +5
      about a decent answer I support! am
      and about the pasta, ehjls fled the whole war like hares and the only thing they could do was to put a quiet “knife in the side”. Mountain and pathos doher, but yourself, zilch! fucking and cowardly nation!
      I don’t remember which of the historical figures said: "in no country there are so many fortresses that their" defenders "abandoned at the first danger!" like so.
      1. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 24 August 2013 16: 10 New
        +2
        As for pasta: our ludi fell under the occupation of Italians, they say that the Italians were called "cat-dogs", because after the Germans there was little left in the huts, the Italians ate cats, because they fed them worse than ever. But it was only necessary to wake the Italian and say: look, the Germans are coming. They wound straps on the hand and beat the Germans in mortal combat. Italians officers monitored only so that none of the Germans were killed. But when the Germans landed in Italy, they themselves marveled at how stubbornly the Italians fought against them. Is it pasta? - the Germans asked, - they were replaced. In Russia, the majority of Italians did not want to fight and fought badly. But for their Italy they were soldiers.
        1. old man54
          old man54 24 August 2013 17: 56 New
          0
          Quote: shasherin_pavel
          But it was only necessary to wake the Italian and say: look, the Germans are coming. They wound straps on the hand and beat the Germans in mortal combat.

          and why is this so ?? I have not heard that. laughing
          Quote: shasherin_pavel
          But for their Italy they were soldiers.

          interesting info, thanks, apparently I have a gap in awareness! repeat
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 25 August 2013 09: 18 New
            +4
            He didn’t specifically mention it, but in one of the books: either Drabkin or Isaev ... I don’t remember exactly, but the scout cited the story of an old man in whose house the Italians lived. I also heard something like this back in Soviet times from my grandfather, a collective farm blacksmith. The Italians did not go to war with the Communists on their own. As an officer of the Italian corps wrote in his memoirs, and when they saw how the Germans acted with the Russian population under occupation, they showed disdain for them, but when it turned out that the Germans intercepted the food destined for the Italian corps, it already resulted in hatred of the Germans. It was from him that he read that the officers had to cover the Germans who received strong blows in fights and pull them out of the fight, the fight was a scandal, and the murder was investigated by the tribunal. Revenge for the humiliation from the Germans was in the first place, and then contempt for the "exploits" of the Germans over civilians. It’s hard to believe, but one scout wrote that when they took the Italian as a language, he begged to let him go, because he has many children who will suffer from repressions from the Italian government, and in return promised to bring other soldiers who have no one in Italy, to whom the Nazis could take revenge: either all relatives died, or the soldiers were orphans before the war. And he did: he brought with him about 50 soldiers, but he himself went back.
        2. Drosselmeyer
          Drosselmeyer 24 August 2013 19: 44 New
          0
          Sorry, but when did the Germans land in Italy? They occupied half the camp (the whole did not have time for the Americans) and massively, echelons plunged the former Italian army into concentration camps. Imagine, but know the measure.
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 25 August 2013 09: 28 New
            +2
            The occupation of half of Italy was not a camping trip, the Germans themselves wrote in memoirs about fierce battles. Why the floor of Italy, and not the whole? Because the Italians already fought not against the Communists in a foreign country, but for their Italy. And if this is a fantasy, then the Germans themselves, but not mine. That is why the entire wall of my room is occupied by memoirs, and only a part of them are historical studies. I believe more that what living people confirm and preferably not one. but a few. I myself know that trust veterans, but check, my uncle Gorbunov Savatiy - the commander divorced a platoon, a finesman in the Death Valley in the Murmansk Region, sometimes this was said about the technique of the time that I just smiled. He Katyusha shot as much as 20 km. But he is forgiven, but he came to Berlin in infantry and reconnaissance - this medal confirmed. The Order of the Red Banner, two Stars and a bunch of medals, he held in his hands.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. old man54
      old man54 24 August 2013 17: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Kibalchish
      The attack of the armed forces of one state by the ship of another state is an act of war. 614 people died. How will we answer?

      earlier it was necessary to answer blo, and not 60 years after! "They don’t wave their fists after the fight !!" But the whole idea is very correct, you "+" from me. hi
      1. S-200
        S-200 24 August 2013 18: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: old man54
        earlier it was necessary to answer blo, and not 60 years after! "They don’t wave their fists after the fight !!" But the whole idea is very correct, you "+" from me

        and Hitler, 20 years later, responded to Versailles' shame ... and - DISCUSSED the "geyropa ussa"! already flew down ...
        The statute of limitations in the national genome - DOES NOT MATTER!
        PS We have SUCH comrade (KGB colonel wink ), which spreads softly and diplomatically, but it’s hard to sleep ...
        PPS but finally, men ... HEALTHY YOU ARE SO SUCH CARE!
        hi
        HERS they US will be taken for a bare udder! ... angry
        1. novobranets
          novobranets 25 August 2013 13: 56 New
          +3
          Quote: S-200
          The statute of limitations in the national genome - DOES NOT MATTER!

          (+) To you. The Russian Empire, then the Soviet Union, as the successor to Russia, has a long-time sworn enemy ... No, more precisely, THE ENEMY. Which constantly makes big and small mucks regardless of the weather, and constantly with the wrong hands, and which constantly remains in the shadows. This (Lord forgive me) is the United Kingdom. For several centuries now! they sleep and see Russia defeated. England constantly fought with Russia, if not openly, then supplying our enemies with weapons, money, information. Using political, economic levers, not disdaining forgery and blackmail, England sets Russia against all whom it has influence (Turkey, Poland, Japan, etc.). In any war, provocation, or scandal, there is always, if not an obvious trace, then tangible aglitsky darling. And the head of the hydra (not for nothing called that) does not hide in Her Majesty's Armed Forces and not in the Buckenham Palace, but on Wall Street. And there was information that on Novorossiysk there is also a blurry but familiar imprint. Here it is. sad
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 25 August 2013 14: 05 New
            +3
            Absolutely agree with you! This is our geopolitical adversary! Even no Saudi Arabia is the United Kingdom !!! It has been like this for centuries and always will be (not even the USA)
            1. novobranets
              novobranets 25 August 2013 14: 11 New
              +2
              By and large, the initiator of all the filth is England, the United States is a child next to them.
              1. m262
                m262 25 August 2013 21: 59 New
                +3
                Rudyard Kipling said: The Big Game will only end when everyone dies ...
  4. clidon
    clidon 24 August 2013 08: 01 New
    +9
    I would not take the veteran’s words so seriously. With age, many lack attention, so they often try to remind themselves. This is of course another fact in favor of the "sabotage" version, but it does not make it the only one.
    1. old man54
      old man54 24 August 2013 17: 57 New
      0
      Quote: clidon
      I would not take the veteran’s words so seriously. With age, many lack attention, so they often try to remind themselves.

      "+" !! I agree more than !! good
  5. T80UM1
    T80UM1 24 August 2013 08: 02 New
    +6
    It remains to wait for recognition from the amers regarding the Kursk ... To understand what humiliation the authorities are ready to go so as not to unleash a conflict ...
    1. El13
      El13 25 August 2013 11: 58 New
      0
      You are the president of the country, do you know for certain that the "Kursk" by mistake (or tragic accident) was torpedoed by the Americans, your actions?
      It is possible to turn the world into ruins in an hour, the question is, will it satisfy you?
  6. shasherin_pavel
    shasherin_pavel 24 August 2013 08: 15 New
    +4
    In Soviet times, while in Sevastopol, I heard this story from the guide, from the Panorama of the Defense of Sevastopol, he showed where Novorossiysk was, and even then he spoke about the version of Italian sabotage and said that a month later the highest order of Italy received an Italian saboteur-submarine posthumously . So we must consider the version that the Italian government was aware of what was happening, once awarded posthumously.
    1. alone
      alone 24 August 2013 17: 38 New
      +2
      this is impossible without government approval. The Italian government was aware of what was happening. Moreover, perhaps Borghese personally received an order from the prime minister to prepare and carry out this operation
    2. shpuntik
      shpuntik 24 August 2013 22: 03 New
      +2
      shasherin_pavel RU Today, 08:15
      In Soviet times, being in Sevastopol, I heard this story from the guide, from the Panorama of the Defense of Sevastopol, he showed where Novorossiysk was,

      That's the thing that they heard from the guide. The official version was about a German mine, only sailors spoke of sabotage. It is difficult to hide the truth from sailors, they smell it with their nose. After Stalin, the enemies of the people came to power. Khrushchev knew about the true reason, perhaps it was agreed. This fifth column crawled out under Gorbachev, before that she was quietly behaving. Look at the facts:
      At that time, a tragic mistake was made, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice Admiral V. A. Parkhomenko, who arrived at the battleship, ordered the suspension of the towing of Novorossiysk to the shallow.
      Obviously dumb order.
      Next, right there:
      Komflot made a new mistake, under the pretext of maintaining calm ("Let's not breed a panic!"), He suspended the evacuation.

      Wherein:
      But it turned out that the ships of the water protection division, which were supposed to guard the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, were at a different place at the time of the explosion. On the night of the death of the battleship, the external raid by Soviet ships was not guarded; network gates were open, noise finders did not work.

      And as a result:
      In addition, this tragedy was the reason to remove from the post of Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Nikolai Kuznetsov. Khrushchev did not like him, since this largest naval commander resisted plans to “optimize” the fleet (Stalin’s programs to turn the USSR Navy into an ocean fleet went under the knife).

      Also:
      The hasty liquidation of the ship is also suspicious after it has been lifted. Novorossiysk was quickly cut into scrap metal, and the case was closed.

      And somewhere it was said that the children of Khrushchev live in the Sha. I do not know how true it is, I did not seek confirmation, but in principle, you can do it at your leisure.
      1. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 25 August 2013 19: 59 New
        +1
        The official version of Kursk is that a torpedo exploded inside the boat, in violation of safety precautions, but here's what I will say: Kursk was still at the bottom when military pilots came to work for us, the captain went to the chief’s office, and two lieutenants remained on the street. So we asked them about Kursk. They said that they still have at headquarters (this is a quote) pictures of Kursk on the water and next to another boat, also on the ground. Second photo: Kursk at the bottom, near Peter the Great, and the second boat is missing, which subsequently coincided in the opinion of the French that there were two boats. One of them collides with Kursk, and the second, having heard how our torpedo tubes are being loaded, cut Kursk ahead of the curve and led our anti-submarine ships behind. The boat, damaged by a collision, lay down on the ground and went into neutral waters.
        And about the torpedoes, they said that until the torpedo moves a hundred meters from the boat, it does not explode. Like on planes, on bombs, the switch is on the fuse, and until the bomb travels some distance and the switch does not fly off the fuse, the fuse works. The torpedo was modernized, but since 43 years, not a single bombing has been recorded ahead of time.
      2. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 25 August 2013 20: 02 New
        +2
        I almost forgot: the guide was a native of Sevastopol, and officers naturally live in Sevastopol, and what two know, the pig knows (quote from Muler).
  7. Igor39
    Igor39 24 August 2013 08: 20 New
    11
    A veteran of the special forces of the swimmers of the Italian Navy 10 flotilla reported that the battleship of the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR Navy, Novorossiysk, which had been killed by mysterious circumstances on October 29 of 1955, was undermined by Italian combat swimmers. Hugo de Esposito made this admission in an interview with the Italian edition of 4Arts.
    I want to make a confession too: I killed Kennedy .......
    1. S-200
      S-200 24 August 2013 18: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: Igor39
      I want to make a confession too: I killed Kennedy .......

      Excuse me, Igor, but hypothetically you could kill ONLY - Samos, Brezhnev, Andropov, Kunaev, Chernenko, Pol Pot and Ieng Sari ...and, ON THIS, your time range is LIMITED! bully
      (Time Service of the FSB of the Russian Federation)
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 25 August 2013 18: 39 New
        +3
        Add, pzhlst, Gorbachev, I really want to kill, at least hypothetically. repeat
        1. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 25 August 2013 20: 04 New
          +2
          Fail: queue is too long ..
      2. Day 11
        Day 11 25 August 2013 19: 11 New
        +1
        Yes, S-200, about the Time Service of the FSB of the Russian Federation you are pierced. How is it? Accidentally happened? The authorities will not praise
        1. novobranets
          novobranets 25 August 2013 19: 18 New
          +1
          Come on, we won’t tell anyone. drinks
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 25 August 2013 19: 26 New
            +2
            Right now it’s shifted and all business! It will be further on duty to stand on a military post
  8. 6216390
    6216390 24 August 2013 08: 23 New
    +5
    I give preference to the third version - "sabotage group", the rest sin with great stretch.
    The good memory of the sailors of Novorossiysk who absurdly died in this tragedy, including from the criminal orders of the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice Admiral V. A. Parkhomenko.
  9. RUS-36
    RUS-36 24 August 2013 08: 48 New
    +5
    They didn’t watch, and here’s what we’re doing ... punitive measures must be applied immediately, so that thoughts do not arise on meanness .. And we are asking the USA what to take from a defeated enemy? Although they themselves had to take everything, and then throw the mates to the mongrels, which is worthless to us. The country is the winner in such a humiliating situation after the war, no words. Gold and platinum were paid for landlis for a long time and property was returned, while the USA didn’t fight, and all the trophies were taken.
    1. S-200
      S-200 24 August 2013 19: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: RUS-36
      And we ask the United States what should we take from a defeated enemy? Although they themselves had to take everything, and then throw the mates to the mongrels, which is worthless to us. The country is the winner in such a humiliating situation after the war, no words.

      Italy - NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY AREA!...so ! and Sev.Afrika- too ..
      We are for ourselves, the field of Europe .. "from HONGUrasil"lol
      1. 6216390
        6216390 25 August 2013 10: 43 New
        0
        Quote: S-200
        We are for ourselves, the field of Europe .. "from HONGUrasil"

        + + + + + + + + + + + + +
        ETOGES must be so wrapped. "from HONGdurasili"
  10. individual
    individual 24 August 2013 09: 10 New
    +9
    From here, problems began in the USSR from Khrushchev voluntarism.
    A lover of hopak began to rule the power, like a village club.
    Instead of stable development and consolidation of the military-industrial complex, he began to rely on reforms for some incomprehensible reason, it is unclear why, to the detriment of the development of aviation and the navy.
    His reforms responded much later to the fullest.
    The defeat of aviation artillery fleet curtailment of heavy tank building. This also includes corn experiments over the whole country and the anti-Russian territorial redistribution (Kazakhstan, Crimea).
    This is not reform, it is sabotage.
    This should be remembered by modern reformers from education and health.
  11. Ulysses
    Ulysses 24 August 2013 09: 28 New
    +7
    The version with the bottom mine of WWII is the most unconvincing and most convenient for everyone.
  12. solomon
    solomon 24 August 2013 09: 44 New
    +9
    At that time, a tragic mistake was made, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice Admiral V. A. Parkhomenko, who arrived at the battleship, ordered the suspension of the towing of Novorossiysk to the shallow. ... Komflota made a new mistake, under the pretext keep calm ("Let's not breed a panic! ”), He suspended the evacuation.
    At the beginning of WWII looks like.

    it was heard how Soviet sailors sang "Varyag"
    And sailors honor and glory. They fought for the salvation of a sinking ship, as befits a real Sailors.
  13. shurup
    shurup 24 August 2013 09: 50 New
    +2
    The explosion occurred after simulating the firing of nuclear shells. On the Soviet side, it was a bluff, and the opposing side had real concerns.
    After the war, Italians had big problems with money, but you don’t need to show who paid the saboteurs for initializing the bookmark.
    Hare ears give out and one should expect similar scenarios at present.
  14. Iraclius
    Iraclius 24 August 2013 10: 05 New
    +6
    There is a wonderful book dedicated to the death of Novorossiysk - "Requiem to the battleship." I recommend it to everyone who is not indifferent to the fate of the ship and our sailors who remained in it.
    If we consider the version of the explosion of mines, it should be remembered that when the Germans left the Crimea, the bay was mined chaotically. Boxes of TNT and fuses were simply thrown overboard from ships. After the war, mines were poorly cleaned. When the battleship arrived in Sevastopol, its formulation was unsuccessful - the ship did not have time to repay the inertia of movement and plowed the bottom of the bay with the given anchors. Maybe. that because of the concussion, the clockwork of the bottom mine soared (and they were also found there). In addition, the entire upper deck was covered with a thick layer of bottom silt, which could not have happened with the explosion of a charge embedded inside the battleship compartments.
    So personally, I strongly doubt the involvement of the Black Prince in the death of the battleship.
    1. old man54
      old man54 24 August 2013 23: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: Iraclius
      When the battleship came to Sevastopol, its formulation was unsuccessful - the ship did not have time to repay the inertia of motion and plowed the anchored bottom of the bay.

      Sorry, but you can see right away that you had nothing to do with the fleet. hi
      Quote: Author
      Before the tragedy on barrel number 3 Novorossiysk moored 10 times, and the battleship Sevastopol 134 times.

      When the ship gets on anchor barrel, like "Novorossiysk" then, then the anchors do not give up! The ship simply moored to it in a special way and that’s all. This is necessary so as not to waste time in an emergency (for a battleship of this class it is at least 1 hour) to remove from the anchor. So yours:
      "...the ship did not have time to suppress the inertia of motion and plowed the bottom of the bay with the given anchors. Maybe. that because of the concussion, the clockwork of the bottom mine soared"
      - does not channel
      !
      And in general, the return of the anchor occurs only after the ship stops completely, otherwise the anchor chain can be pulled under the bottom, as a result of the breaking of the anchor chain or damage to the hull.
      And why, then, after the Second World War, there were no other cases of the operation of bottom mines in the bay, if your words left them there ??
  15. Ruswolf
    Ruswolf 24 August 2013 10: 07 New
    10
    I also adhere to the fourth version.
    Something followed quickly after that.
    1. Kuznetsov’s dismissal without the right to restoration
    2. Letter from Zhukov to Khrushchev (May 1956) on the need to disband the Marine Corps
    3. Destruction of methodological and educational materials for the training of officers of the Marine Corps
    4. Closing of the only Vyborg Naval Academy in the country (on that day)
    5. Collapse of programs for the development and creation of the ocean fleet, incl. aircraft carrier.


    All this was motivated by the fact that it was necessary to develop missile forces, and measures to repel a strike from the sea and missile landing tasks could well be accomplished by motorized gunners.

    All this could not be cranked up while Kuznetsov was. And for his displacement needed a very good reason.

    It's a shame! The country has lost irrevocable 10 years (before 1965).
    1. alone
      alone 24 August 2013 17: 51 New
      0
      But when clarifying the circumstances of the tragedy, the characteristic signs of the torpedoes remaining from the attack were not found. But it turned out that the ships of the water protection division, which were supposed to guard the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, were at a different place at the time of the explosion. On the night of the death of the battleship, the external raid by Soviet ships was not guarded; network gates were open, noise finders did not work. Thus, the Sevastopol naval base was defenseless.


      Well, what do you say? Could all this have been done without an order from above? I think not. The fleet management was probably aware of what would happen. If these are Italians, they were incredibly lucky)))
  16. APASUS
    APASUS 24 August 2013 10: 08 New
    +2
    I was struck by the reaction of the Kremlin - that is, its absence.
    There are no proposals for a joint investigation, they did not even ask to interrogate this gorunor.
    We just swallowed .......... it is not clear.
  17. stranik72
    stranik72 24 August 2013 10: 13 New
    +3
    I doubt very much, somewhere at the beginning of perestroika, when this topic was new, in the pages of KZ, in my opinion, one of the Soviet demolitioners conducted an analysis of all this hype with the calculation of the power of the explosion at the place of the bookmark and concluded that at that time it was not real , and the KGB checked the information about sabotage through their channels (and then they could still do something), it was not confirmed. So I do not really believe in it, the old wear of the main units at that time exceeded 80% (again from the same article) why it had to be drowned by someone, while there were newer ships in the bay there. And for the sake of show off, at that time in Italy the positions of the Communist Party were very strong (as it became known now it would even win the elections in the country and if it weren’t for the ruling) it would hardly be a fact of preparation for sabotage in Italy at that time known to us, the country was on sale, well, somewhere like ours in the 90s.
    1. Alexander 1958
      Alexander 1958 24 August 2013 11: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: stranik72
      , and the KGB checked the information about sabotage through their channels (and then they could still do something), it was not confirmed

      Somewhere I read that the KGB was the only agency that did not sign the act of investigating the causes of the disaster with the version of the explosion of the bottom mine. Alexander 1958
  18. Alexander 1958
    Alexander 1958 24 August 2013 10: 18 New
    +1
    Good afternoon! In my opinion, the version of the Italians undermining is believable, but no more. And why this ship was blown up. For reparations, they gave the ships to many other countries listed in the article and newer ones. In general, it sounds somehow childish - asked not to pick up the ship, but they (the Russians) took it. Who was Italy in the 50s, in general, no one called her in any way. And more serious countries would not be happy with their problems and strain the USSR unnecessarily. Some kind of Pearl Harbor and the demolition of the battleship "Maine" in Cuba before the Spanish-American war, only then it was done as an excuse to start the war, and in the case of the "Novorossiysk" why?
    Alexander 1958
  19. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 24 August 2013 10: 46 New
    +1
    The Navy is always in a state of military contact. Relaxation, and even more so, slovenliness in the navy is just as inappropriate as in war. Today, after September 11 and other similar events, we see that the government can sacrifice its citizens for the sake of more serious goals, in their opinion. And this adds responsibility to those responsible for security.
  20. mirag2
    mirag2 24 August 2013 10: 55 New
    -1
    Here! What to think! Money, money! You can’t get money from them. But to blow up the ship, it’s necessary — let them think — maybe the mine has worked since the Second World War? This will be right. Even if we make a mistake (of which I’m not sure) no need to cry, not a little they drank our blood during the war ...
  21. Kosatka
    Kosatka 24 August 2013 11: 02 New
    +9
    The version of the Novorossiysk blast by Italian swimmers is unlikely. 1. In 1955, a hidden base could not be created in Omega Bay and its coastal zone. (Village. Aveo workshops, seaplane parking, operating lighthouse, dispensary with mud therapy, warehouses.
    2. From the omega to the battleship’s parking near the hospital wall where an undermining by the sea occurred for about 4 miles.
    3. Two bays should be sailed where they are based and guarded both by coastal posts and from ships. The main forces of the special operations forces and the auxiliary fleet of the Black Sea Fleet are based in Streletskaya Bay. And in 1947, we also had a collective farm fish, which, up to 2 miles away with their nets and traps "Gandera," blocked the sea for fishing. (At that time, collective farmers caught a lot of good fish than fed not only one Sevastopol), the networks were set in the coastal zone 10 ki kilometers. The second bay is Quarantine, the BTK base of the Black Sea fleet of torpedo boats was located there. And the school of divers of the Black Sea Fleet. (Divers were trained and trained not only in the bay but also with access to the sea.)
    The third bay Martynov there was a berth of the naval factory of concrete goods. Zem shells brought sand and rocked ashore. Sand was pumped in Omega Bay, Lyubimovka, Uchkuevka and Kache, they did not go far.
    To create a base, deliver secretly and undermine, in a short time on the verge of the impossible.
    Most likely the explosion occurred from mines nearby lying at the bottom. This "good" is still issued by the sea a few pieces.
    Everlasting memory .
    1. alone
      alone 24 August 2013 17: 44 New
      +1
      1,8 tonne TNT mine? what
      1. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 24 August 2013 18: 04 New
        +1
        I agree. after all, you still need to add 50% of iron to this; such a bomb under three tons across the sea, no plane of that time would have transported.
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 25 August 2013 11: 38 New
          0
          Quote: shasherin_pavel
          I agree. after all, you still need to add 50% of iron to this; such a bomb under three tons across the sea, no plane of that time would have transported.

          In one version, the explosives were already on board. The divers simply put mines in the right place. This version is based on the Giulio Cesare ship being repaired before being sent to the USSR and some interior spaces were painted. Scheme of mechanisms and teams for Of course, there wasn’t any transfer, so ours reached the point. We didn’t have much time to search for any bookmarks. We had to put them into operation quickly - usually by the next date.
        2. old man54
          old man54 25 August 2013 22: 13 New
          0
          Quote: shasherin_pavel
          such a bomb under three tons across the sea, no plane of that time would have transported

          Well, it's you in vain! The total load capacity of the IL-4 and Pe-8 was 3 tons per light, but the truth was it couldn’t help if they could hook such things to themselves or not. But the small-bolts in the 2nd half of the 2nd MV had the Tol-Boy air bomb, they would weigh about 5 tons! hi
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 26 August 2013 20: 45 New
            0
            The pilot of the ADD Tikhomolov Boris Ermilovich described such flights in the book “Sky on Fire” that the Il-2,5 could lift 4 tons only at close range, then 40-50% of fuel was poured into the tanks (calculation for the duration of the flight plus 25% reserve) . And so 1300 kg at maximum range. Tu-3 could lift 2 tons, again a short distance. Henkel 111 - 1800 kg. Xe-117 up to 2 tons. S-88 -1500 kg. A two-ton bomb was dropped on the Breta fortress, this was an event for the Luftwaffe, as there were unit pilots capable of taking off with such a weight, and there is no mention of the mass use of 2 ton bombs. Ton bomb dropped on the battleship "Marat". But the Tallboy was 12000 pounds = 5448 kg. and at 22000 pounds, = 9988kg. "Brand slam." Details Brickhill P. and Barker R. “Ship Killers. Flood Garmania” p. 314. but these were bombs for 4-engine aircraft, and the Germans had four-engine bombs F-V 200, but these were mainly torpedo bombers. There were two transport 6 motor ones. Our largest were five tons of cement, (it is lighter than metal) only for Pe-8, but with it he could not rise above 500 (five hundred) meters, and the hatches of the bomb bay did not close. Five-ton also did not fit completely into the “Lancaster”. This is the bomb of V.V. It was 50% of the weight, and the sea mine still required a special parachute, with its weight, and the mechanics of the fuse, the time and multiplicity of the passage of the ships when it exploded after several ships, and the self-destructor when falling in shallow water or on land and anti-mine traps. So 1.8 tons of TNT is more than three tons for a mine.
  22. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 24 August 2013 11: 34 New
    +2
    How many years have passed .. I think a lot more that we learn ..Sabotage sabotage These words are not fashionable now .. But they were and will be They accurately express what was happening in the USSR and in today's Russia .. In 50 years, some Western or ours (traitor) with a smirk will say why we always have something it didn’t start up or drowned .. I’m not exaggerating or exaggerating .. We have a lot of "Shouts" and "moles" .. and many are still waiting in the wings ..
  23. mithridate
    mithridate 24 August 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    maybe, indeed, in this way Khrushchev dealt with his opponents?
  24. i'm from texas
    i'm from texas 24 August 2013 11: 45 New
    0
    compensation must be claimed, what a harm! When will the Italians open the archives?
  25. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 24 August 2013 11: 55 New
    -1
    Quote: i'm from texas
    к

    What can I claim from Italy .. Our cant .. Their swimmers had the elite .. !! Clearly worked ..
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 24 August 2013 12: 01 New
      +2
      greetings to all hi

      quote-Battleship "Novorossiysk" in the 1955 year, blew up the military swimmers of the Italian Navy?

      stock footage in the topic
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Oc4GF7K6w
  26. rudolff
    rudolff 24 August 2013 12: 28 New
    +3
    This veteran may be an empty talker, but such statements should not be ignored. At a minimum, verification of the facts presented, a joint procedure with the Italians for the inquiry of Esposito. Further decide on the resumption of the investigation in the criminal case of the death of the battleship.
    By the way, the detonation of a sea mine does not exclude the participation of combat swimmers. It’s not so difficult to tow it under water to the right place. Underwater vehicles ("torpedoes") of swimmers could also be used as explosive devices.
    1. old man54
      old man54 24 August 2013 18: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: rudolff
      This veteran may be an empty talker, but such statements should not be ignored. At a minimum, verification of the facts presented, a joint procedure with the Italians for the inquiry of Esposito. Further decide on the resumption of the investigation in the criminal case of the death of the battleship.

      Very healthy, Rudolph !!! But ... does the government need this? And then, up to the 91st year, and even more so today, pro-Western, the licky USA and even the geyrop ass ?? That's it. And the authorities found out the true cause of the explosion for another 1 year, but they kept it secret and everything was on the brakes, as always by the way.
  27. lelikas
    lelikas 24 August 2013 12: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: Igor39

    I want to make a confession too: I killed Kennedy .......

    Now type in the search engine Backpack and Pressure Cooker - all the world's special services and black helicopters are sent to you. laughing
    1. I am
      I am 24 August 2013 19: 50 New
      0
      How pressure cooker bombs work (to materials on terrorist attacks in Boston).

      Many people do not even realize how easy it is to create a bomb from a pressure cooker. To describe the principle of operation of this mechanism, one must take into account the statement that contents under pressure can explode.


      In pressure cookers, the principle of cooking is simple. Pressure cookers cook food using steam, using the principle of increasing internal atmospheric pressure to heat and a steam trap, the normal limit of which is 212 degrees Fahrenheit. In this case, an increase in temperature increases pressure, and this, according to the theory of the explosion mechanism, is already dangerous.

      Pressure cooker bombs used in Boston were filled with fast-flowing gas under harsh pressure. The gas came from setting fire to simple gunpowder. Under pressure, the gas present has much more devastating consequences than if it were placed in an unpressurized container.

      A report published by the Department of Homeland Security in 2004 describes “pressure cooker bombs” used by rebels and militants in India and Algeria; later, according to DHS, USA, there was a mention that since 2010 such bombs have been used in Afghanistan, Nepal and Pakistan, as well as in an attempt to bomb Times Square. Judging by the latest reports, similar explosives were used in terrorist attacks at the Boston marathon. Al-Qaeda's English-language magazine Inspire writes that the recipe for the same bomb, but with a different design, existed even before Al-Qaeda was created. The anarchist cookbook, notorious for its instructions for explosives and explosive devices, described the potential of the “pressure cooker bomb” back in 1971.

      Pressure cooker bombs have a long history and a diverse list of users. In India, they were used by the Maoists, as well as terrorist groups in Kashmir. In France, back in 2000, a group of Algerian terror tried to use pressure cooker bombs. In Greece in January of this year, an explosion of pressure cookers was attributed to the anarchists. The materials used to make pressure cooker bombs are neither expensive nor unique, and instructions for making them are widely available.

      After investigating the attacks in Boston, answers will be given on the contents of the bombs and the nature of their creation. USA Today illustrations clearly show how bombs of this type work.

      Pressure cooker

      Using a pressure cooker as a makeshift explosive device is a brutal method used by Afghan terrorists in training camps. US Department of Homeland Security: “Pressure cooker bombs can be made from easily accessible materials or have complex structures.”

      Normal use
      In pressure cookers, food is usually cooked using a sealed lid and a steam trap.

      1 Detonation
      A pressure cooker is filled with explosive and a mixture of nails and ball bearings.

      2 Extension
      Explosive ignition occurs quickly.

      3 Fragments from the explosion
      As a result of the explosion, nails and bearings shoot like bullets.
  28. fedor
    fedor 24 August 2013 13: 54 New
    +7
    From archival materials. According to the results of the soil survey in the Sevastopol Bay, immediately after the death of Novorossiysk, several dozen bottom mines of both German and Soviet production were found. The Germans at the beginning of the Second World War and in 1944, while leaving Sevastopol, our aircraft in 1943. Most mines in TNT equivalent of about 1100 kg of explosives. Directly near the sunken ship, 6 minutes and one bunch of three minutes were found.
    For some time I had the opportunity to serve with officers in charge of the work of raising Novorossiysk, including the so-called MURU known in the Navy. According to their firm conviction, the ship died from mines on the ground, the chatter about the diversion of Italians is complete rubbish, and all the other versions are speculations of people ...
  29. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 24 August 2013 13: 58 New
    0
    The bookmark was in this cruiser .. (welded into the hull) a small magnetic mine was hitched and a monstrous explosion .. ruining the ship and crew in the port .. (not for nothing that this topic was kept secret during the Soviet era ..) now the Italian boasted before her death ... . The most interesting is how many such "boasters" .. in Russia and in the west .. negative
  30. Ruswolf
    Ruswolf 24 August 2013 14: 23 New
    +1
    The recognition of Italians is little, which means
    Borghese vowed that not one ship would not go to the Russians, but the oath had not been fulfilled, and then there was an occasion to ascribe to himself - He fulfilled the promise.
    To raise its image after the 1945 year, the Italian government would go to any duck, even with awards.
    What allegedly confesses to Borghese’s confession, he once also spoke beautifully about the torpedo attack of Italian boats on the Tashkent cruiser, only according to his statements the attack was on 10 of June 1942 of the year, and according to official data of 7 of June, Tashkent arrived in Batumi from Novorossiysk and stood there until June 18.
  31. Oskar
    Oskar 24 August 2013 14: 32 New
    +4
    I fully admit that a veteran swimmer could just "PR." Maybe the pension is not enough? Archives will be available - we will find out the truth.
  32. Denga
    Denga 24 August 2013 15: 20 New
    +1
    in diplomatic language there is such a thing as rhetoric. That is, if information about the explosion by the Italian special forces of our ship is officially confirmed, then let them either apologize and pay, or similarly send the Italian warship to the bottom.
    1. Ruswolf
      Ruswolf 24 August 2013 15: 46 New
      0
      This Act does not pass, because the “P” is mainly applied as an economic sanction and is aimed at terminating the actions of one of the parties, which infringes on the rights of the other party, but should not, consist of an exact repetition of provocative actions.
  33. Igarr
    Igarr 24 August 2013 16: 29 New
    -2
    Hi, brothers.
    Type in a search engine - the site of the Black Sea Fleet.
    Or you can simply - the death of Novorossiysk. He will still bring to the Black Sea Fleet website.
    There you will read why and why.
    The fourth option.
    No variations.
    1. old man54
      old man54 24 August 2013 18: 13 New
      -1
      wrong with the site of the Black Sea Fleet! hi
      1. old man54
        old man54 25 August 2013 22: 16 New
        +2
        This is for you "-" from me, for the vile minus, bz argumentation! hi
        1. Igarr
          Igarr 26 August 2013 22: 03 New
          0
          Who do you want? To me?
          I didn’t minus anyone.
          And the opinion ... so this is my opinion.
          And knowledge of some mechanisms.
          .
          And I liked it - "... for vile minus .. "
          I immediately introduced myself as a sort of picture villain, a citizen of Gadyukin. With a mustache, a knife in his teeth, a malicious grin - and ..minus, minus, minus ......
          Here is a plus for you, from me. For making fun.
  34. Siberian German
    Siberian German 24 August 2013 16: 35 New
    0
    Quote: Vovka Levka
    Quote: xetai9977
    About the "Italian trace" was written in the late 80's. This version has always been present. But the Italian government is unlikely to recognize the fact of the participation of its special services in the death of Novorossiysk

    Whether this is or not is a moot point. But no one will recognize anything in any case.
    Each state has many skeletons in the closet, it was and will be.
    The question is different?
    As having so much time after the explosion, he manages to drown the ship in his bay. It defies any logic. This indicates the level of leadership training.
    And Rear Admiral Nikolsky, instead of allowing the captain of the ship to perform his direct duties, stuck his pig's nose in what was a complete ram. Significantly arranged a tea party with the highest command of the ship aboard the sinking ship, instead of taking the ship aground.
    - I completely agree that they blew up the ships before, but somehow they fought and saved the ships - remember the caravan PQ-17 our ships were torpedoed and attacked by airplanes, but they reached the ports from the ocean, but here - I don’t know if it’s professionalism or cowardice
  35. gerafak
    gerafak 24 August 2013 16: 38 New
    +6
    I doubt the Italian trail, the sheepskin was not worth the trouble: the ship was in the tenth ship, in any case there was very little to go along the seas. Without state support, such an action would probably not have been carried out. But if we had caught saboteurs, it smelled of a great war at that turbulent time. It is unlikely that the Italian government would take such a risk, hardly.
  36. Cristall
    Cristall 24 August 2013 16: 47 New
    +3
    Tragedy ... an explosion in the heart of the harbor, the heart of the base, the absurd death of hundreds of people in peacetime at the base ..
    some people performed a feat and died, others gave ridiculous orders, condemning the former to certain death.
    The heroism of some, which death corrected the mistakes of others ..
    Peace be upon you sailors of the battleship Novorossiysk
  37. rudolff
    rudolff 24 August 2013 18: 00 New
    +1
    battleship empress maria
  38. rudolff
    rudolff 24 August 2013 18: 14 New
    +2
    I apologize, accidentally sent an unfinished comment. I wanted to recall the same mysterious death on the Sevastopol raid of Empress Maria. Forty years before the tragedy of Novorossiysk. One of the versions was the diversion of the German special services. After almost 20 years, one of the organizers, one Victor Verman, was found.
  39. Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer 24 August 2013 19: 58 New
    +4
    Most likely a mine. In the Omega Bay, there is nowhere to arrange the Kruglyaya Base, even the wild beach is very open, and in the middle of the bay you can even walk on a sand-mill. Secondly, in the 2000s, a bottom magnetic mine was raised in Kamyshovaya Bay, and it was trawling and there were many ships there. So, this mine was in full working condition, with normal batteries and traps for sappers, from which a person died. The same could lie under Novorossiysk.
    The fleet command was very lucky that I.V. died Stalin, otherwise it would have been with holes in his head.
  40. South
    South 24 August 2013 21: 15 New
    -4
    A different version was put forward decades later by the foreman of the battleship "Novorossiysk" Yuri Lepekhov, who took part in the transfer of the ship from the Italian side of the Soviet. In his opinion, there was more than one mine, and the explosion from the outside provoked the detonation of a sabotage charge, which was originally inside the battleship. “When the command took over the ship,” Lepekhov told the “Sevastopol newspaper”, “in the first days I examined it in detail and found a compartment where three cuts were brewed. The welding was recent and very expertly performed. The question arises, who needed to brew them in the most distant compartment of the ship - the lower bow. However, the command took no action on this information. ”
    Material from the site tape ru
    And Italian submariners - respect, people of great courage
  41. Al shahini
    Al shahini 24 August 2013 21: 24 New
    +2
    The version of saboteurs is conspiratorial and beautiful in its own way. Moreover, when you consider that they attribute it to the combat swimmers of the “Black Prince” Valerio Borghese.
    But most likely in reality everything is simpler and more ordinary - mines there were like sprats. And to crank up such an operation of Italy, defeated in the war, both politically and materially would be difficult.

    And the recognition of ex-saboteur Hugo D Esposito. most likely from the realm of fantasy of an aging person.
    1. South
      South 24 August 2013 21: 33 New
      +1
      Well, yes, mines in the main base of the Black Sea Fleet 10 years after the war as sprats, who will surprise .....
      Well, one must not lose the sense of reality, tobish or recognize the whole Black Sea Fleet as a bunch of suckers and delitantists or recognize the obvious - the "aging man" told the truth, and what is the point of lying to him?
      1. Kosatka
        Kosatka 25 August 2013 09: 14 New
        +1
        In the bays of Sevastopol, many explosive “goodness” of both the first war and the Great Patriotic War are still being extracted. Only bottom mines of various types were destroyed more than 400 pieces. Immediately after the explosion, in the area of ​​the anchorage opposite the Hospital Wall (where Novorossiysk stood), and Pavlovsky Cape, 6 minutes were discovered. The Germans during the retreat mined the waters of the bays of Sevastopol carefully with knowledge of the matter. Special teams of sappers worked, not only Germans and Italians, and the unified Romanian - French. Veterans of the divers told there were places where the bottom was laid out by avibombs and hung them or a sonar mine landed. Mines of various types and all unexploded are still found in dozens. Only in August the bottom mine and the FAB 100 were discovered. Moreover, everything was found by divers at the entrances to the Streletskaya and Sevastopol bays.
        1. South
          South 27 August 2013 22: 44 New
          0
          Well, what other ships and ships were blown up by mines 10 or more years after the war?
          I understand that I really don’t want to recognize the heroism and daring of the enemy - to put the flagship in the main base to the bottom .... but it’s necessary
  42. Uzoliv
    Uzoliv 24 August 2013 21: 35 New
    +5
    I do not believe in the version about saboteurs. And there are many reasons for this. Of course, there was a lot of sloppiness on our part: the bonnets were open, the sea surveillance radar was repaired, the PLO patrol was poorly organized - but all this had to be known. It was also necessary to know that on this day Novorossiysk would return to base in the evening and would not be in a regular place. But even if swimmers discovered a battleship at night, why did they attach a charge to the bow? In theory, this does not give a 100% guarantee of the destruction of the ship. The hole was outside the armored citadel. It was much more profitable to place the charge under the cellars or mechanisms, and this is easier, the work would be facilitated by the presence of cheekbones. This is strange, pros do not work like that.
    And what to do after the sabotage? Not 2-3 people are involved in such an operation, but if an information leak is a war. And all this because of a rusty vessel.
    The combat value of Novorossiysk by that time was practically zero. Already initially, the ship was designed unsuccessfully: insufficient stability, poor misfire, poor protection, general design weakness, armament of 320mm does not meet our standards, the quality of Italian ammunition to the main caliber was low. Plus, the lack of technical documentation. Hence the problems in the struggle for survivability, the ship was completely different from domestic practice in the arrangement and principles of actions and arrangements of devices and systems.
    I consider the statement of the Italian pensioner as a self-PR, my grandfather decided to earn some money again, the glory warms the soul, there is something to tell the grandchildren.
  43. Bakht
    Bakht 24 August 2013 21: 38 New
    +2
    Of course a tragedy. Many people died.

    The battleship Novorossiysk was not combat-ready. All the time he was in the service, he was being repaired. Rarely went to sea. Ammunition I don’t know was on board or not? But the one that was available was of very poor quality. Detonation is also possible. I believe in the Italian trace with difficulty.

    About the manual. The command of the Black Sea Fleet during the war was distinguished by such incredible decisions and execution that there was simply nothing to be surprised at.

    Well, about why the battleships are dying. In 1939, Priin fired just 2 torpedoes (fired more, but only two exploded) into the more modern Royal Oak. The ship rolled over and sank right in the anchorage. Also, not least because of the idiocy of leadership. On board was the fleet commander of the metropolis. Also safely drown.
    1. old man54
      old man54 25 August 2013 22: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Bakht
      But the one that was available was of very poor quality. Detonation is also possible.

      At a hole in the bottom of Novorossiysk the edges of the gap are concave inward enclosures at the bottom huge parking lot explosion funnel! What else is needed ?? request What is the detonation of ammunition ?? Can you imagine the detonation of a ship’s artillery cellar with GK guns of this caliber? You seem to be very interested in the fleet, dear, and such blunders! negative
    2. South
      South 27 August 2013 22: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Bakht
      The battleship Novorossiysk was not combat-ready. All the time he was in the service, he was being repaired. Rarely went to sea.

      Well this is the fate of all major ships
  44. Pilot
    Pilot 24 August 2013 21: 59 New
    -1
    I don’t know who does not believe in the version about saboteurs, personally I believe in it. It could even be.
  45. pv1005
    pv1005 24 August 2013 22: 51 New
    0
    That Novorossiysk that Kursk, the truths probably never know. At least the living. And there may be versions .......
  46. RusneTRUS
    RusneTRUS 25 August 2013 01: 16 New
    0
    Anything can be anything
    mine was
  47. 2sila
    2sila 25 August 2013 01: 45 New
    +3
    The Italian version is the most implausible.
    Everything is at the level of rumors, gossip and conjecture.
    There is not a single fact, not a single evidence, even indirect, nothing at all.
    There is only a topic for talk.
    And the chatter of Hugo de Esposito also has its own precedent in history.
    So it was when an unknown author in France accidentally read the notes of the navigator Albanov and wrote "memoirs" on behalf of the allegedly surviving E. A. Zhdanko.
    True, Hugo de Esposito has not yet written a memoir, but I think it’s close to that.
  48. Kostya pedestrian
    Kostya pedestrian 25 August 2013 02: 33 New
    0
    It’s interesting, but the Italians didn’t take away the Crimea from us for an hour, planting Khrushchev, such as al capone, and organizing Soviet criminals, such as until their chief godfather came from over the hill, like, and decided so many young, talented and athletic guys, having previously put them in adidas or having drunk half the country of scientists and educated people incl. schoolchildren with royal alcohol?

    The guard is a world conspiracy against Russia and the Russian peoples, by the way, if you write Crimea in English, then you can also read "Krut", i.e. who owns the Crimea, the one who is the coolest gangster, and given the Crimean War (in English it sounds like a crime war), the yupkie Scots are the identical twins of the Greek guards in ball skirts - the coolest.

    Pies:
    Incidentally, in the Crimean, not a few Russian ships were sunk right in the port.

  49. Eugene
    Eugene 25 August 2013 04: 14 New
    -2
    Lord, yes, it’s not a problem to squander one and a half tons of explosives on such a “box”! A very real version, about swimmers. Although my grandfather could have pinned it.
    1. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 25 August 2013 09: 43 New
      0
      Yes, if you still know the most vulnerable place to lay. It’s not even a torpedo - where else will it go ... And about the oath: you guys think - this is an Italian swore. They keep the oath, not like we do, even if they know what they will die, but still have to do it. Do not fulfill the oath - no one will give a hand. Another mentality, swearing is one thing, but a holy vow.
  50. GEO
    GEO 25 August 2013 06: 18 New
    0
    Quote: Vovka Levka
    Quote: xetai9977
    About the "Italian trace" was written in the late 80's. This version has always been present. But the Italian government is unlikely to recognize the fact of the participation of its special services in the death of Novorossiysk

    Whether this is or not is a moot point. But no one will recognize anything in any case.
    Each state has many skeletons in the closet, it was and will be.
    The question is different?
    As having so much time after the explosion, he manages to drown the ship in his bay. It defies any logic. This indicates the level of leadership training.
    And Rear Admiral Nikolsky, instead of giving an opportunity captain ship to perform its direct duties, stuck his pig nose in what was a complete ram. Significantly arranged a tea party with the highest command of the ship aboard the sinking ship, instead of taking the ship aground.

    Are you a jacket?