"The military industrial complex has become an authoritative platform for dialogue"
- What has changed in the military-industrial sector in one and a half years of your work in the government?
- A fundamentally new legislative and regulatory framework has been created for the smooth and efficient operation of the entire defense industry. In particular, the law on the state defense order was adopted, introducing flexible pricing for the creation of complex armory complexes. From January 2014 it will come into force.
The Military Industrial Commission (MIC) has become an authoritative platform for dialogue between industry and the military. It consists of specialized councils to create a new technical basis for the clans and types of armed forces.
They included representatives of industry, science and government customers themselves - profile commanders-in-chief, heads of special and law enforcement services. It is here - on a professional level - that complex issues are resolved that previously, without finding answers, spilled over into public price wars. The military-industrial complex has established a system of control over the execution of the current defense order, the effectiveness of military spending, and the process of forming complex cooperation between enterprises and the creation of fundamentally new weapons. By the end of 2012, we had almost completely placed defense orders. This year, industry is much more stable. There is a large-scale rearmament not only of the army and fleet, but also defense plants. High-tech production is introduced. As a result, new weapons began to enter the army and the navy, such as, for example, the Borei project nuclear submarines, the Ash multipurpose nuclear submarines, and the "muscular" firepower NATO counterparts. In September, at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil, we will show the country's leadership the first prototypes of armored vehicles of the fundamentally new Kurganets, Boomerang platforms and the Armata heavy combat transformer. There is no such technique in the West.
A few days ago, the Kalashnikov rifle concern was officially born, the production of competitive small arms of legendary domestic brands is being revived, and joint ventures with leading Western manufacturers, such as Beretta, are being created.
The state tests of the fifth-generation fighter T-50, as well as Russian heavyweight IL-476, are successfully advancing. The order for it in Ulyanovsk will exceed the number in 100 aircraft. A new icebreaking nuclear fleet of the country is under construction. A new cosmodrome "Vostochny" and the city of Tsiolkovsky are under construction. Plants are being built for new information and fire systems of the aerospace defense forces. An echelon with a new Angara carrier rocket was sent to Plesetsk. It was created not by Soviet but by Russian drawings. Order is being established in the organization of research projects and in the dialogue of the defense industry with basic science. Earned the Advanced Research Foundation. Adopted a plan of his work for the next three years. In November, we will report to President Putin the first results of his activities.
- How is the dialogue with the new leadership of the Ministry of Defense?
- Unfortunately, in past years, the defense order system in the military was practically destroyed. Decisions were made on the basis of the voluntarism of individual commanders, and not on the basis of the principles of program-target planning. Each new commander in chief reworked the tasks of the state defense order according to his own understanding. For example, a new commander-in-chief of the Navy arrives, sees a ship under construction at the shipyard and begins to revise the previous decisions on its technical appearance. It seems to him that he will make the ship better if he makes "improvements" at the stage of its completion, forgetting or not knowing that improvements in the process of making a complex system always lead to the deterioration of this system. Separate aggregates start cutting out the hull of an already built ship; instead, they insert "Glavkomov's Wishlist." The hull of the ship becomes similar to the body of a sick person that the surgeon wasted out. With the arrival of the new Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and the appointment of Yuri Borisov, the Defense Minister of the Ministry of Defense, who previously worked as the first deputy chairman of the military-industrial complex, the situation has certainly improved. But still, it will still take some time and joint efforts to rebuild the defense order planning system and, therefore, to qualitatively change the relationship between the customer and the industry.
- Is that the only problem?
- Of the subjective - yes. But there is an important objective problem. We are now experiencing, in fact, a revolution in military affairs. The dreams of science fiction from military science are becoming a reality - I mean first of all the appearance and wide distribution of precision weapons. Its mass use in the wars of recent years has reversed the previous ideas about the forms of warfare. Precision weapons make wars contactless, and now they will not be born on the borders of states. The scale of states, the vastness of their territories will lose their former importance for the organization of echeloned defense. Weapons begin to appear on new physical principles. If traditional weapons were based on kinetic, chemical and thermal factors of influence on the enemy, now a completely new type of weapon appears. Plus new speeds - hypersound, the development of which is a complex multi-faceted task. The one who accomplishes this first will question the former concepts of strategic defense.
- If we recall the hypothetical scenarios of nuclear conflicts that were developed in the 60-90-s of the twentieth century, they were based on the concepts of using the nuclear triad in a preventive, counter, reciprocal and retaliatory strike. With such an aggression, the other superpower had time to detect the fact of launching missiles from the enemy’s territory by means of missile attack warning systems and to give the necessary instructions on the use of retaliation weapons. With the advent of hypersonic weapons and the possibility of their secretive use from the territory of nearby neighboring countries or waters, the country — the victim of aggression, will not have time to build up in the decision making. Everything will happen in a matter of minutes and even seconds. This means that when developing a defense mechanism against an attack with hypersonic high-precision means, we will have to think about a drastic reduction in the response time to aggression. The role of a person in identifying aggression and organizing retaliation in the event of a real attack will be reduced to a minimum. By the way, already now missile defense systems do not work in automated mode, but in automatic mode. More and more decisions will have to be transferred to the machines, laying in them in advance algorithms of actions in critical situations. What can this lead to? To the tremendous growth of the influence of computers, robots, automatic control systems, which will more and more push people out of the sphere of making decisions about reciprocal use of weapons. Doesn't this remind you of the story about Skynet from the legendary Hollywood movie "Terminator"?
- You have already begun to form a new state armaments program before 2025. What emphasis will be placed on it?
- The new weapons program should be designed to create weapons that will be adequate for each type of hypothetical adversary and forms of warfare that he will impose on us. But in all scenarios we assume the widespread use of precision weapons and robotics, allowing our soldier to suppress the aggressor without engaging with him in contact combat.
- In the new state program there is a place for an aircraft carrier?
- The aircraft carrier is not so much a military weapon as a geopolitical ...
- We have the "Admiral Kuznetsov", which was supposed to go on a major overhaul and modernization, but never left.
- We also have the Admiral Gorshkov, which is being modernized at Sevmash. We are going to give it to NNUMX on November of the Indian Navy (under the new name Vikramaditya.- "Kommersant"), as long as everything goes smoothly.
- In the spring, the transfer of part of the cost of state defense orders for 2016 was discussed. This will affect the implementation of the entire current state program as a whole?
- There are two target indicators that are determined by presidential decree. And without changing it, we do not have the right to revise these parameters. The point is to reach the 2015-percent weapon upgrade by 30, and the 2020-percent by the 70 year. Therefore, to transfer the tasks of the state defense order blindly for 2016 a year only because the Ministry of Finance considers otherwise, we cannot. At least, without revising the presidential decree. This is the first. Secondly, the president made one decision: individual tasks of the state armament program can shift only if the industry is not ready to execute them in a timely manner, but the program itself, the amount of funds allocated to it are not subject to revision.
- Have you confirmed these volumes?
- Only the State Duma can confirm this to us when it votes in the third reading for the draft budget for 2014 and the subsequent 2015-2016 years.
"The aviation industry should form its plans for the future in 30 years"
- How do you see the development of the United Engine Corporation?
- It should go in three directions. The first is the prompt restoration in Samara of engine manufacturing competency for our long-term aviation. Процесс не только сложный, но и крайне затратный, так как речь идет практически о штучном производстве в крайне ограниченной серии. Но делать это все равно придется, поскольку надо восстановить боевой потенциал и продлить ресурс стратегической авиации. Она еще послужит стране, по крайней мере, в течение всего периода разработки и принятия на вооружение нового стратегического бомбардировщика, политическое решение о создании которого уже принято президентом. Второе направление — это разработка нового поколения двигателей. Первенцем в этом деле является пермский ПД-14, которым планируется оснастить магистральный самолет МС-21. Рождение этого самолета ожидаем через два года. Кстати, покупателям МС-21 будем предлагать его в двух опциях — с российским ПД-14 и с лицензионно собранным у нас "американцем" от Pratt & Whitney. Третье направление — это импортозамещение. Например, на новой промплощадке климовского завода (ОАО "Климов".— "Ъ") в Санкт-Петербурге в конце этого года будет завершено развертывание производства двигателей для истребительной авиации и вертолетов, которые ранее собирались за пределами России.
- And what about the plans for the production of domestic civil aircraft?
- What do we have here ... We do not have a light-engine aircraft. There is a veteran of the collective-farm movement laborer An-2 and plans for its re-engineization, but the prospects in this niche in the aviation industry are still vague.
In the niche of a short-haul aircraft, a civilian version of the IL-112 may be promising. The military needs a light military transport aircraft, and they are inclined to issue a large order for IL-112В - the aircraft, according to which the design documentation is ready for 95%. In addition, I believe that it would be good for the Indian market and possible joint production with this country. Indeed, if we have such a large order for the Ministry of Defense, why not see the possibility of producing a civilian version of such an aircraft? Not only civilian transport, but also civilian passenger. Counted. I talked with Viktor Livanov, General Designer of Ilyushins. The designer confirmed: we can make an aircraft with a range of 1,5 thousand km and a capacity of 50 passenger seats. Interesting topic? Interesting. Although, of course, the last word belongs to the market and airline operators, but the industry must constantly offer new ideas and machines.
As for the SSJ and MC-21, these aircraft, along with the Tu liners, will form a family of mainline aircraft of the country in the coming years, winning the national market for themselves, pushing Westerners off of it.
Well, the most important prospect for us is the development of long-range wide-body aircraft. It is necessary to enter this market with a completely unique design, not repeating Europeans and Americans. In partners, it makes sense to take China. Co-production with the Chinese will give us not only risk minimization, but also a huge market that will make the project profitable. Work with partners is already underway.
Generally speaking, our plans should shape our aviation industry for the future in 30 years, no less. Therefore, engine and aircraft construction should be considered in one context.
- What will happen to the An-124 Ruslan project.
- We will modernize. The problem there is that the Ukrainian side is very tight on an agreement on the transfer of our consent to the modernization of individual units of this aircraft. But we will not wait any longer and take advantage of international experience.
- Negotiations are difficult?
- Yes. Deputy Prime Minister Boyko came from Kiev, I had a long talk with him on this subject ... A sensible person, but it’s still hard to get the discussion moving forward. On the other hand, if they do not make decisions now, then later we will simply have to localize all the production. And give up their services completely. Who will they work with? With the Chinese? Chinese sell? China is also far advanced in this respect. Why do they need Ukraine? I sincerely worry about the fate of our industrial cooperation with Ukraine.
- Under the project An-70 the same situation?
- Understand what is the matter? The plane is virtual. That's all they say, that he has a unique wing blowing, he takes off from a short run, from the ground ... But we only saw this on paper. According to its technical characteristics, it is almost a direct competitor to the IL-476. I will ask a question: why do we need a multitype and, moreover, with a partial series? Do we need to produce in-house, say, 50 Il-476 and 50 An-70? We are interested in large series, in a serious load of our enterprises and in their specialization, so that each plant does not turn into a subsistence economy. To bear such a large overhead with our low productivity is impossible. Therefore, a decision must be made. This will happen, I think, in the near future.
“We need constant help to finally break the vicious circle of accidents and failures”
- How is the issue resolved with the reorganization of Roskosmos and what did you have in mind when talking about the combination of the aviation industry and the space industry?
- June 11 President held a meeting. A number of its participants were categorically in favor of consolidating the entire rocket and space industry within the framework of the state corporation. True, without specifying what type. State corporations are of two kinds: of the type Rostec, where the functions of the state customer remain with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, or of the type Rosatom, when the state corporation itself solves the tasks of the state order and its execution. Everyone believes that it is the second type of state corporation that represents the most effective form, but, in my opinion, the success of Rosatom is largely connected with the personality of Sergei Kiriyenko.
The case of Roscosmos is fundamentally different. If, for example, in Rosatom more than 90% of all industrial cooperation is concentrated, then in Roscosmos this indicator is not higher than 50%. Secondly, there are so many problems in the rocket and space industry that the government simply does not have the right to provide the industry with the opportunity to understand them at its discretion. Here we need constant help to finally break the vicious circle of accidents and failures, which are so annoyingly discussed by our whole society. As a result, the president agreed with the proposal of Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev to consolidate the enterprises of the industry within the framework of the Open Joint-Stock Company United Rocket and Space Corporation, while maintaining and strengthening the Federal Space Agency.
As for the so-called connection of the aviation industry and the space industry, everyone at the same time heard only what he wanted to hear. This is not about the mechanical connection of corporations, but about the scientific and technical progress that will generate inter-average technologies. Well, for example, a hypersonic rocket weapon capable of changing a ballistic to aerodynamic trajectory in flight is not so much a rocket as a prototype of a hypersonic plane. Or the Air Start project, which involves combining into a single complex of rocket-space and aviation equipment. I spoke about this single future for cosmonautics and the future aviation of a single technical policy. But then provoked a stir in the bureaucratic henhouse.
- When can I wait for a decree on the reorganization of Roskosmos?
- Roskosmos must bring a system project to the government, to the military industrial complex: whom to assemble, how to assemble, how to convert federal state-owned enterprises into joint-stock companies, how to build production holdings within the corporation, how to implement a unified technical policy.
- Do you plan to bring the share of Energy Corporation to a controlling stake? Now only 38% of it belongs to the state.
- Of course. If you bring to the control share, then different options: you can provide subsidies in the framework of the supply of new equipment, and due to this increase the state package. There are other options. I do not want to suggest. This is the task of Roscosmos, they should put a draft decision on the table.
- In the West, much attention is paid to low-orbit communication segments. Russia has only the Gonets system with four satellites in orbit. We will develop this area with us?
- With pleasure. But do you think that we have private companies that are ready to take on the full scope of this work? We have 250 thousand people involved in the rocket and space industry, and in the US - 70 thousand. We have eight times lower labor productivity than theirs. Enterprises duplicate each other's work and at the same time are loaded with no more than 40%. Hence, a high turnover rate, a large number of random people who do not feel a generic connection with their enterprise. This kind of accident, as in July "Proton", while maintaining this situation can be repeated. Therefore, it is necessary to carry out a profound reform of our rocket and space industry as quickly and consistently as possible.