Military Review

"We cannot transfer tasks of the state defense order because of the Ministry of Finance." Vice Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin about what has already changed and what will change in the military-industrial complex

Deputy Prime Minister DMITRY ROGOZIN told Kommersant about how the defense industry and military interact with the new Minister of Defense, what products should aircraft manufacturers work on and what to do with the rocket and space industry. Mr. Rogozin is confident that there will be no revision of the weapons program.

"The military industrial complex has become an authoritative platform for dialogue"

- What has changed in the military-industrial sector in one and a half years of your work in the government?

- A fundamentally new legislative and regulatory framework has been created for the smooth and efficient operation of the entire defense industry. In particular, the law on the state defense order was adopted, introducing flexible pricing for the creation of complex armory complexes. From January 2014 it will come into force.

The Military Industrial Commission (MIC) has become an authoritative platform for dialogue between industry and the military. It consists of specialized councils to create a new technical basis for the clans and types of armed forces.

They included representatives of industry, science and government customers themselves - profile commanders-in-chief, heads of special and law enforcement services. It is here - on a professional level - that complex issues are resolved that previously, without finding answers, spilled over into public price wars. The military-industrial complex has established a system of control over the execution of the current defense order, the effectiveness of military spending, and the process of forming complex cooperation between enterprises and the creation of fundamentally new weapons. By the end of 2012, we had almost completely placed defense orders. This year, industry is much more stable. There is a large-scale rearmament not only of the army and fleet, but also defense plants. High-tech production is introduced. As a result, new weapons began to enter the army and the navy, such as, for example, the Borei project nuclear submarines, the Ash multipurpose nuclear submarines, and the "muscular" firepower NATO counterparts. In September, at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil, we will show the country's leadership the first prototypes of armored vehicles of the fundamentally new Kurganets, Boomerang platforms and the Armata heavy combat transformer. There is no such technique in the West.

A few days ago, the Kalashnikov rifle concern was officially born, the production of competitive small arms of legendary domestic brands is being revived, and joint ventures with leading Western manufacturers, such as Beretta, are being created.

The state tests of the fifth-generation fighter T-50, as well as Russian heavyweight IL-476, are successfully advancing. The order for it in Ulyanovsk will exceed the number in 100 aircraft. A new icebreaking nuclear fleet of the country is under construction. A new cosmodrome "Vostochny" and the city of Tsiolkovsky are under construction. Plants are being built for new information and fire systems of the aerospace defense forces. An echelon with a new Angara carrier rocket was sent to Plesetsk. It was created not by Soviet but by Russian drawings. Order is being established in the organization of research projects and in the dialogue of the defense industry with basic science. Earned the Advanced Research Foundation. Adopted a plan of his work for the next three years. In November, we will report to President Putin the first results of his activities.

- How is the dialogue with the new leadership of the Ministry of Defense?

- Unfortunately, in past years, the defense order system in the military was practically destroyed. Decisions were made on the basis of the voluntarism of individual commanders, and not on the basis of the principles of program-target planning. Each new commander in chief reworked the tasks of the state defense order according to his own understanding. For example, a new commander-in-chief of the Navy arrives, sees a ship under construction at the shipyard and begins to revise the previous decisions on its technical appearance. It seems to him that he will make the ship better if he makes "improvements" at the stage of its completion, forgetting or not knowing that improvements in the process of making a complex system always lead to the deterioration of this system. Separate aggregates start cutting out the hull of an already built ship; instead, they insert "Glavkomov's Wishlist." The hull of the ship becomes similar to the body of a sick person that the surgeon wasted out. With the arrival of the new Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and the appointment of Yuri Borisov, the Defense Minister of the Ministry of Defense, who previously worked as the first deputy chairman of the military-industrial complex, the situation has certainly improved. But still, it will still take some time and joint efforts to rebuild the defense order planning system and, therefore, to qualitatively change the relationship between the customer and the industry.

- Is that the only problem?

- Of the subjective - yes. But there is an important objective problem. We are now experiencing, in fact, a revolution in military affairs. The dreams of science fiction from military science are becoming a reality - I mean first of all the appearance and wide distribution of precision weapons. Its mass use in the wars of recent years has reversed the previous ideas about the forms of warfare. Precision weapons make wars contactless, and now they will not be born on the borders of states. The scale of states, the vastness of their territories will lose their former importance for the organization of echeloned defense. Weapons begin to appear on new physical principles. If traditional weapons were based on kinetic, chemical and thermal factors of influence on the enemy, now a completely new type of weapon appears. Plus new speeds - hypersound, the development of which is a complex multi-faceted task. The one who accomplishes this first will question the former concepts of strategic defense.

- How?

- If we recall the hypothetical scenarios of nuclear conflicts that were developed in the 60-90-s of the twentieth century, they were based on the concepts of using the nuclear triad in a preventive, counter, reciprocal and retaliatory strike. With such an aggression, the other superpower had time to detect the fact of launching missiles from the enemy’s territory by means of missile attack warning systems and to give the necessary instructions on the use of retaliation weapons. With the advent of hypersonic weapons and the possibility of their secretive use from the territory of nearby neighboring countries or waters, the country — the victim of aggression, will not have time to build up in the decision making. Everything will happen in a matter of minutes and even seconds. This means that when developing a defense mechanism against an attack with hypersonic high-precision means, we will have to think about a drastic reduction in the response time to aggression. The role of a person in identifying aggression and organizing retaliation in the event of a real attack will be reduced to a minimum. By the way, already now missile defense systems do not work in automated mode, but in automatic mode. More and more decisions will have to be transferred to the machines, laying in them in advance algorithms of actions in critical situations. What can this lead to? To the tremendous growth of the influence of computers, robots, automatic control systems, which will more and more push people out of the sphere of making decisions about reciprocal use of weapons. Doesn't this remind you of the story about Skynet from the legendary Hollywood movie "Terminator"?

- You have already begun to form a new state armaments program before 2025. What emphasis will be placed on it?

- The new weapons program should be designed to create weapons that will be adequate for each type of hypothetical adversary and forms of warfare that he will impose on us. But in all scenarios we assume the widespread use of precision weapons and robotics, allowing our soldier to suppress the aggressor without engaging with him in contact combat.

- In the new state program there is a place for an aircraft carrier?

- The aircraft carrier is not so much a military weapon as a geopolitical ...

- We have the "Admiral Kuznetsov", which was supposed to go on a major overhaul and modernization, but never left.

- We also have the Admiral Gorshkov, which is being modernized at Sevmash. We are going to give it to NNUMX on November of the Indian Navy (under the new name Vikramaditya.- "Kommersant"), as long as everything goes smoothly.

- In the spring, the transfer of part of the cost of state defense orders for 2016 was discussed. This will affect the implementation of the entire current state program as a whole?

- There are two target indicators that are determined by presidential decree. And without changing it, we do not have the right to revise these parameters. The point is to reach the 2015-percent weapon upgrade by 30, and the 2020-percent by the 70 year. Therefore, to transfer the tasks of the state defense order blindly for 2016 a year only because the Ministry of Finance considers otherwise, we cannot. At least, without revising the presidential decree. This is the first. Secondly, the president made one decision: individual tasks of the state armament program can shift only if the industry is not ready to execute them in a timely manner, but the program itself, the amount of funds allocated to it are not subject to revision.

- Have you confirmed these volumes?

- Only the State Duma can confirm this to us when it votes in the third reading for the draft budget for 2014 and the subsequent 2015-2016 years.

"The aviation industry should form its plans for the future in 30 years"

- How do you see the development of the United Engine Corporation?

- It should go in three directions. The first is the prompt restoration in Samara of engine manufacturing competency for our long-term aviation... The process is not only complicated, but also extremely costly, since it is practically a piece production in an extremely limited series. But this will still have to be done, since it is necessary to restore the combat potential and extend the resource of strategic aviation. It will still serve the country, at least during the entire period of development and adoption of a new strategic bomber, the political decision on the creation of which has already been made by the president. The second direction is the development of a new generation of engines. The firstborn in this business is the Perm PD-14, with which it is planned to equip the main plane MS-21. The birth of this aircraft is expected in two years. By the way, we will offer MS-21 buyers in two options - with the Russian PD-14 and with the licensed "American" from Pratt & Whitney assembled in our country. The third area is import substitution. For example, at the end of this year, the launch of the production of engines for fighter aircraft and helicopters, which were previously assembled outside of Russia, will be completed at the new industrial site of the Klimovsk plant (OJSC Klimov - Kommersant) in St. Petersburg.

- And what about the plans for the production of domestic civil aircraft?

- What do we have here ... We do not have a light-engine aircraft. There is a veteran of the collective-farm movement laborer An-2 and plans for its re-engineization, but the prospects in this niche in the aviation industry are still vague.

In the niche of a short-haul aircraft, a civilian version of the IL-112 may be promising. The military needs a light military transport aircraft, and they are inclined to issue a large order for IL-112В - the aircraft, according to which the design documentation is ready for 95%. In addition, I believe that it would be good for the Indian market and possible joint production with this country. Indeed, if we have such a large order for the Ministry of Defense, why not see the possibility of producing a civilian version of such an aircraft? Not only civilian transport, but also civilian passenger. Counted. I talked with Viktor Livanov, General Designer of Ilyushins. The designer confirmed: we can make an aircraft with a range of 1,5 thousand km and a capacity of 50 passenger seats. Interesting topic? Interesting. Although, of course, the last word belongs to the market and airline operators, but the industry must constantly offer new ideas and machines.

As for the SSJ and MC-21, these aircraft, along with the Tu liners, will form a family of mainline aircraft of the country in the coming years, winning the national market for themselves, pushing Westerners off of it.

Well, the most important prospect for us is the development of long-range wide-body aircraft. It is necessary to enter this market with a completely unique design, not repeating Europeans and Americans. In partners, it makes sense to take China. Co-production with the Chinese will give us not only risk minimization, but also a huge market that will make the project profitable. Work with partners is already underway.

Generally speaking, our plans should shape our aviation industry for the future in 30 years, no less. Therefore, engine and aircraft construction should be considered in one context.

- What will happen to the An-124 Ruslan project.

- We will modernize. The problem there is that the Ukrainian side is very tight on an agreement on the transfer of our consent to the modernization of individual units of this aircraft. But we will not wait any longer and take advantage of international experience.

- Negotiations are difficult?

- Yes. Deputy Prime Minister Boyko came from Kiev, I had a long talk with him on this subject ... A sensible person, but it’s still hard to get the discussion moving forward. On the other hand, if they do not make decisions now, then later we will simply have to localize all the production. And give up their services completely. Who will they work with? With the Chinese? Chinese sell? China is also far advanced in this respect. Why do they need Ukraine? I sincerely worry about the fate of our industrial cooperation with Ukraine.

- Under the project An-70 the same situation?

- Understand what is the matter? The plane is virtual. That's all they say, that he has a unique wing blowing, he takes off from a short run, from the ground ... But we only saw this on paper. According to its technical characteristics, it is almost a direct competitor to the IL-476. I will ask a question: why do we need a multitype and, moreover, with a partial series? Do we need to produce in-house, say, 50 Il-476 and 50 An-70? We are interested in large series, in a serious load of our enterprises and in their specialization, so that each plant does not turn into a subsistence economy. To bear such a large overhead with our low productivity is impossible. Therefore, a decision must be made. This will happen, I think, in the near future.

“We need constant help to finally break the vicious circle of accidents and failures”

- How is the issue resolved with the reorganization of Roskosmos and what did you have in mind when talking about the combination of the aviation industry and the space industry?

- June 11 President held a meeting. A number of its participants were categorically in favor of consolidating the entire rocket and space industry within the framework of the state corporation. True, without specifying what type. State corporations are of two kinds: of the type Rostec, where the functions of the state customer remain with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, or of the type Rosatom, when the state corporation itself solves the tasks of the state order and its execution. Everyone believes that it is the second type of state corporation that represents the most effective form, but, in my opinion, the success of Rosatom is largely connected with the personality of Sergei Kiriyenko.

The case of Roscosmos is fundamentally different. If, for example, in Rosatom more than 90% of all industrial cooperation is concentrated, then in Roscosmos this indicator is not higher than 50%. Secondly, there are so many problems in the rocket and space industry that the government simply does not have the right to provide the industry with the opportunity to understand them at its discretion. Here we need constant help to finally break the vicious circle of accidents and failures, which are so annoyingly discussed by our whole society. As a result, the president agreed with the proposal of Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev to consolidate the enterprises of the industry within the framework of the Open Joint-Stock Company United Rocket and Space Corporation, while maintaining and strengthening the Federal Space Agency.

As for the so-called connection of the aviation industry and the space industry, everyone at the same time heard only what he wanted to hear. This is not about the mechanical connection of corporations, but about the scientific and technical progress that will generate inter-average technologies. Well, for example, a hypersonic rocket weapon capable of changing a ballistic to aerodynamic trajectory in flight is not so much a rocket as a prototype of a hypersonic plane. Or the Air Start project, which involves combining into a single complex of rocket-space and aviation equipment. I spoke about this single future for cosmonautics and the future aviation of a single technical policy. But then provoked a stir in the bureaucratic henhouse.

- When can I wait for a decree on the reorganization of Roskosmos?

- Roskosmos must bring a system project to the government, to the military industrial complex: whom to assemble, how to assemble, how to convert federal state-owned enterprises into joint-stock companies, how to build production holdings within the corporation, how to implement a unified technical policy.

- Do you plan to bring the share of Energy Corporation to a controlling stake? Now only 38% of it belongs to the state.

- Of course. If you bring to the control share, then different options: you can provide subsidies in the framework of the supply of new equipment, and due to this increase the state package. There are other options. I do not want to suggest. This is the task of Roscosmos, they should put a draft decision on the table.

- In the West, much attention is paid to low-orbit communication segments. Russia has only the Gonets system with four satellites in orbit. We will develop this area with us?

- With pleasure. But do you think that we have private companies that are ready to take on the full scope of this work? We have 250 thousand people involved in the rocket and space industry, and in the US - 70 thousand. We have eight times lower labor productivity than theirs. Enterprises duplicate each other's work and at the same time are loaded with no more than 40%. Hence, a high turnover rate, a large number of random people who do not feel a generic connection with their enterprise. This kind of accident, as in July "Proton", while maintaining this situation can be repeated. Therefore, it is necessary to carry out a profound reform of our rocket and space industry as quickly and consistently as possible.
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  1. makst83
    makst83 23 August 2013 09: 40
    The article has pleased and encouraged! Let's fulfill our intentions in concrete affairs, cheers comrades!)))
    1. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 23 August 2013 15: 56
      Quote: makst83
      The article has pleased and encouraged!

      First ... voluntarily or not freely, our economy begins to move to certain planned indicators of its development ...
      - More and more emphasis is being placed on state-owned enterprises ... that is, the basis of state capitalism is developing (which is most characteristic of SWEDEN ... AUSTRIA ... and others). The ideas of "market freemen", the propagandist of which is our prime minister, are relegated to small-scale individual production.
      - "voluntarism" is disappearing into oblivion ... collegiality is becoming more ... This would be added to by an increase in the level of personal RESPONSIBILITY ...
      It really pleases.
  2. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 23 August 2013 15: 33
    In the West there is no such technique.
    Conversational artist.
    1. Retx
      Retx 23 August 2013 15: 51
      Have you seen armata?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 23 August 2013 16: 08
        I think he didn’t see her either.
        1. Retx
          Retx 23 August 2013 16: 17
          Do not make me funny, Deputy Prime Minister and did not see smile
          1. ivshubarin
            ivshubarin 23 August 2013 16: 20
            In the picture if only
            1. Retx
              Retx 23 August 2013 16: 25
              Yes, even if in the picture, he saw it, so he can draw conclusions and statements. People like Khlopotov are engaged in swampy, "he alone is smart and truly patriotic, and all engineers, military men, etc. are at least fools and thieves, and at most - enemies of the people" (c)
              If there are no facts, then it is better to be silent. Right?
              1. ivshubarin
                ivshubarin 23 August 2013 16: 43
                I say why make such high-profile statements. That's when they show, then we'll see if there are analogues or not.
                1. Retx
                  Retx 23 August 2013 17: 05
                  He just said "there is no such equipment", and not "our tank / armored personnel carrier / bmp are the best in the world." This is a vague definition, but not loud hi
                  Soon, after all, the exhibition in N. Tagil, maybe there will finally be shown at least something reliable on the new armored vehicles.
                  1. ivshubarin
                    ivshubarin 23 August 2013 17: 23
                    Armata is still OCD. That test will pass, confirm the characteristics, then I will hang a portrait of Rogozin in my office. Well, the West does not stand still, even Turkey and Jordan develop tanks
                    1. alone
                      alone 23 August 2013 18: 05
                      By the way, they are not only developing, the Turks already have ready tanks and they are testing them.
  3. seller trucks
    seller trucks 23 August 2013 15: 35
    - What will happen to the An-124 Ruslan project.

    ... the Ukrainian side is very tightly agreeing to transfer us consent to the modernization of individual units of this aircraft ....

    ... if they don’t make a decision now, then later we’ll just have to localize all production. And we will refuse their services completely.

    but this had to be done a long time ago. I am well aware that this is NOT DESIRE and VERY expensive, but gentlemen Ukrainians, it may be enough to twist my hands, or
    1. Luger
      Luger 23 August 2013 21: 47
      Gentlemen, Ukrainians, and part-time brothers Slavs, are very fond of blackmailing, and it has been successfully noticed "twisting hands", in general they are trying to cut money on everything, and it is from Russia, with all this trying to make money on Russia, that they look at Geyropa, it is unpleasant. We could do everything together, as it was before, live together in one country. Well, the Westerners want to go to the Pshek and the Romanians and the Hungarians, God forbid, I think everything will be fine with Eastern Ukraine, and we will build planes, and we will earn money, and we will live together, and there is no need to localize all production in our country.
  4. saag
    saag 23 August 2013 15: 45
    "... - What do we have here ... We do not have a light-engine aircraft. There is a veteran of the collective farm movement, the laborious An-2, and plans for its remotorization, but the prospects in this niche for the aviation industry are still vague.
    Well, why is such a not-too-expensive business impossible to implement? There is no engine? Well, buy a license from Boguslaev for the production of his engine, especially since he is rumored to have a factory in the Russian Federation
  5. Vtel
    Vtel 23 August 2013 15: 51
    Well, we don’t give a fig, but what kind of gesture is incomprehensible in the PHOTO, this is the size of what will be or what already exists. Optimism is a fact in the face. Okay, let's wait.
  6. guran
    guran 23 August 2013 15: 57
    // Our labor productivity is eight times lower than theirs .//

    this is true. labor productivity is our misfortune and problem historically.
  7. Magadan
    Magadan 23 August 2013 15: 58
    I am glad that they want to master the construction of aircraft with the Chinese. The thing is right - we still have some groundwork for technologies that the Chinese may be interested in (until they began to rivet the liners alone), and joint production will open up access to the unlimited Chinese market. Add to this our vast territory, it will turn out generally beautiful. Together in the future we can make excellent competition for Airbases and Boeing.
  8. Jack122
    Jack122 23 August 2013 16: 00
    Some Rogozin are blasphemy, but it is clear that a person is interested in his work. Mistakes are not made only by people who do not do a damn thing. Rogozin will still gain experience
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 23 August 2013 16: 06
      Well done, he works, but let tryndit for less, on this he is caught
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 23 August 2013 16: 19
      Quote: Jack122
      Some Rogozin are blasphemy, but it is clear that a person is interested in his work. Mistakes are not made only by people who do not do a damn thing. Rogozin will still gain experience

      Rogozin is not so easy in this position, he has always been a politician more than a business executive. I relate to him normally, but I think the position is not for him.
      At least, his view on the increase in the state’s share in strategic sectors is pleasing.
      1. alone
        alone 23 August 2013 18: 07
        what It’s interesting, but it was difficult to find a manager in such an important post in huge Russia. So that he quietly does useful work?
      2. Luger
        Luger 23 August 2013 21: 53
        here are more politicians than business executives, but we must pay tribute to penetrating into business processes, and if they get into, there will be a politician + business executive = leader hi
  9. saag
    saag 23 August 2013 16: 05
    Quote: Magadan
    I am glad that they want to master the construction of aircraft with the Chinese. The thing is right - we still have some groundwork for technologies that the Chinese may be interested in (until they began to rivet the liners alone), and joint production will open up access to the unlimited Chinese market. Add to this our vast territory, it will turn out generally beautiful. Together in the future we can make excellent competition for Airbases and Boeing.

    Actually, nothing good, firstly why can’t we ourselves? Secondly, the Chinese will not allow them to enter their market, they will receive everything for production and will saturate the market themselves, are they fools to lose money?
    1. Shkodnick
      Shkodnick 24 August 2013 23: 52
      I completely agree ... they will either copy. Having bought a minimum batch ... or, darn under a license.
  10. iv82an
    iv82an 23 August 2013 19: 17

    We have 250 thousand people involved in the rocket and space industry, and in the USA - 70 thousand. Our labor productivity is eight times lower than theirs. Enterprises duplicate each other’s work and at the same time are no more than 40% loaded. Hence the high staff turnover, a large number of random people who do not feel a clan relationship with their enterprise.

    Just the majority of random people feel a tribal connection.
    In 2008, the company decided to cut costs by cutting staff by 40%.
    They coped with the task, but it turned out like in a joke.
    "Only idiots remained to work (the smart ones left, the fools were fired)"
    Since that time, nothing has changed - the dead souls were as they were, (the husband of the director’s daughter, the nephew of the cousin of the deputy, etc.)

    From my own experience.
    Scientific research institute working for the Navy. The salary as an engineer received 10 times less than "working" for an "uncle" but for the needs of the civilian fleet (it is difficult to call it work in the engineering board).

    And until it is the other way around, there can be no talk of any rise in the military-industrial complex.

    Laughter through tears.
    Decent salary. Social guarantees in accordance with the Labor Code + medical care in the SM Clinic, medical unit No. 1.
    Nonresident highly qualified workers are provided with a bed in a hostel.
  11. Luger
    Luger 23 August 2013 21: 39
    Dmitry Olegovich is gradually mastering the path of a big politician and a big leader, was a representative in NATO - he mastered foreign policy in its hottest phase, became deputy prime minister for defense - he killed not just two or three birds with one stone, but a whole herd, where, if not in the defense industry, you can to see all the processes from R&D to launch into production, where, if not in the defense industry, you can see the organization of production processes from the beginning to the "warehouse", their internal problems, the hopes of the aspirations of people. I think by 2016, we will have a person who will have an understanding of the country's structure both in the internal and external political aspects and in the economic issue.
  12. nemec55
    nemec55 23 August 2013 22: 02
    How much effort and energy is spent on this, although everything could only go for the benefit of man, energy, fuels, engines, space, the study of the ocean.
  13. konvalval
    konvalval 24 August 2013 00: 39
    I have been following Rogozin's activities for a long time. Sensible, and most importantly, he is a true patriot and statesman. We would have more of these in the government. And as for the manager M_D_A he does not match.
    1. Shkodnick
      Shkodnick 24 August 2013 23: 59
      inappropriate comparison of Man (D.O. Rogizin) with a monkey (da.m.)
  14. user
    user 24 August 2013 01: 10
    Sorry if not on the line.
    I deeply doubt that a person who does not have practical experience in production, design, implementation, and simply managing a large team, without having any technical education, can himself really do something in the military-technical development of the country. There are many examples in our history. So he will have a large staff of various kinds of technical assistants. That's who the future history of Russia will depend on.
    God bless him to assemble a single sensible team.
    Somewhere like that. . . .
    1. an_ursus
      an_ursus 24 August 2013 05: 20
      You are deeply mistaken. He is a real statesman, possessing organizational skills and intelligently understanding and knowing engineering and technical issues. In addition, a true Russian patriot. By the way, his father, Oleg Rogozin, is the former deputy chief of the Armaments Service of the USSR Ministry of Defense, a retired lieutenant general and professor.
      1. user
        user 25 August 2013 18: 14
        But what about his great-grandfather?
  15. voliador
    voliador 24 August 2013 01: 44
    So far, only words. In order for them to begin to turn into deeds, it is necessary to determine bribe-takers and "sawmills" for a long time, and necessarily with confiscation.
  16. individual
    individual 24 August 2013 07: 19
    “Separate units are being cut out of the hull of an already built ship, instead of them“ glavkomovskie Wishlist ”is being inserted.

    It was not strategic planning and the general idea of ​​building a defense initiative that controlled the military-industrial complex, but tyranny of amateurs.
    The approved project must be implemented in the "hardware" of the manufactured product. Otherwise, you cannot determine who is responsible for disrupting the defense order and the quality of the manufactured model.