Military Review

Historical educational program. How does the gulag differ from the concentration camps of the West

269
Historical educational program. How does the gulag differ from the concentration camps of the WestOnce upon a time, tired of listening to phrases like "Stalin and Hitler were no different, they both rotted millions of people in concentration camps," wrote a short note about it from poorly educated citizens. Now I hear the same moans again. And I feel that it is time to write a little more detailed.


So everyone knows that in the USSR under Stalin and in the Third Reich under Hitler millions of people were kept in concentration camps.

Stop!

And everyone who knows this, they generally know what a concentration camp is? No, of course, you can tell each other about terrible concentration camps, and even mention it in documents. But there is a meaning of the term.

Now in Russia there are concentration camps? It seems not, and all condemn the Stalinist practice. But here we take, for example, the Kopeisk correctional labor colony No. XXUMX (high security). This now existing colony was founded in 6 under Stalin. That is, was "Stalin's concentration camp"? And what has changed in it now? Nothing but changes related to the general development of society and technology (such as the transfer of a boiler house from coal to gas).

So this is our concentration camp now? Or then all the same they were not?

What is a forced labor camp or a forced labor colony?

There is no secret here - it is part of the FSIN. That part of it, where they serve the sentence of imprisonment for the periods specified in the verdicts of judicial bodies, and at the same time they are re-educated by labor. So it was under Stalin.

That is, attention (!), Only those who violated the laws of that time were sentenced to the “Stalinist camps” for the terms indicated by these bodies. And nothing else.

You can argue a lot about the injustice of the laws of the Stalin era. But laws are changing everywhere - and what seemed just yesterday, today seems like arbitrariness. And vice versa. Here in the US less than a century ago, the buggers "flew" for up to 25 years in the harshest prisons. And today they can not even say that you do not love them. That is, you can dislike redheads, communists, and even people with sweaty palms — but you can't get homosexuals.

This also changed the views on the plunderers of socialist property or the saboteurs, on people, like the kulaks, who illegally (at that time) were engaged in usury. Now it is even impossible to imagine the “landing” of a person for speculation, but it is easy to imagine a “landing” for non-payment of taxes.

Some people call "extrajudicial reprisals" sentences of "triples", focusing on the Constitution. But they simply forget that in the USSR the Constitution was not Holy Scripture, but only an instrument in the hands of the workers 'and peasants' state, which was directly spoken about.

So the “troika”, created by the government within the framework of the existing powers, were completely legal (within the laws of the time) judicial body. And the verdicts of the "triples" were completely legal.

And how do concentration camps differ from ITL?

The difference even follows from the name.

Concentration camp, unlike ITL, is not a place of serving punishment for breaking the law.

One cannot get to a concentration camp by a decision of the judicial authorities, just as one cannot enter a labor camp without their decision.

One cannot leave the concentration camp after the sentence expires, since there is no sentence itself.

Concentration camps appeared more than a century ago. And they served to concentrate (collect and retain) any part of the population on a formal basis. The inventors of the concentration camps - the British - kept there the families of the Boers, kept them in terrible conditions, sometimes shooting the party hostage until the resistance of the Boers-men completely stopped.

Here the German Nazis were concentration camps. No, there was a judicial system with prisons. And in these prisons were very many by the decision of the German courts. Concentration camps existed parallel to the German punishment system. And they got Jews, Gypsies, Soviet soldiers, who were not fortunate enough to be captured by the Wehrmacht, and many others.

Prisoners of the concentration camps worked, died. But they did not expect to be released, because they had no terms of imprisonment, there were no articles on which they sat. They should have been in concentration camps until they died.

The ITL also worked, and some even died. But they knew what they were sitting for and how much they should sit for. And the majority came to freedom with a clear conscience. Most of the prisoners of the German concentration camps were destroyed, and the survivors were not liberated by the Germans, but by the Allied forces who defeated the Germans and occupied German territory.

So the conclusion is simple and obvious - under Stalin there were no concentration camps in our country, just as there are none now. There was and there is a system for the execution of sentences, in the camps and colonies of which they are serving a sentence (fair or not - this happens in every way) those who violated the law and who were sentenced by the judicial authorities for this. Under Stalin, many people served punishment in the ITL; many are there now. Although, by the way, it is less than it is now in the USA (not only it is less now - it was also less under Stalin).

Are there any concentration camps? Yes there is. For example, a stronghold of world democracy - the United States created a concentration camp at its base in Guantanomo. There, without a decision of the judiciary, various people are seized in Afghanistan and some other places. They have neither the status of prisoners of war, nor the status of the accused or convicted. Many have been sitting for more than a decade and have no idea when they will be released and whether they will be released at all.

By the way, during the Second World War there were also concentration camps in the USA, where they kept their citizens of German and Asian origin just in case. Although, we must pay tribute, kept in much better conditions than the Germans kept their own and foreign citizens.

So those who compare Hitler and Stalin, and rests on the topic of concentration camps, deliberately or out of deep ignorance lie. In the USSR, concentration camps were not practiced after the end of the Civil War. And if you want to compare Hitler with someone and remember the concentration camps - this is for the Americans or, with a time adjustment, for the British.
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269 comments
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  1. Eugene
    Eugene 24 August 2013 08: 12
    45
    Explanatory article. How they were missing in the late 80's !!!
    1. maxvet
      maxvet 24 August 2013 08: 47
      26
      Quote: eugene
      Explanatory article. How they were missing in the late 80's !!!

      both in the 90s and in the 2000s, and even now quite relevant
      1. Greyfox
        Greyfox 24 August 2013 09: 37
        -66 qualifying.
        The concentration camp cannot be reached by decision of the judiciary, just as ITL cannot be reached without their decision

        Of course, after all, we did not have extrajudicial "triplets", "twos" and other special meetings ... Oh, yes, this propaganda leaflet mentions them
        were an instrument in the hands of the workers 'and peasants' state, which was directly stated.

        They also worked in ITL, and some even died. But they knew what they were sitting for and how much they were sitting.

        Wow ... Even ... Apparently from overeating and from a sedentary lifestyle. The relatives were especially aware of whom they informed that husband, father, mother, etc., were sentenced to 10 years without correspondence. And of course there was no such thing that the lawyer was summoned and said before the end of the term, "Sign, you will have another 3,4,5 years by the decision of a special meeting."
        Who are these articles intended for? Who hasn't read anything at all? The author would be shoved into this "sanatorium".
        1. yurii p
          yurii p 24 August 2013 10: 38
          30
          first you need to read, grasp the essence of the article, and then give your opinion to people, and it is these people who created these concentration camps, because you want to put the author without trial and investigation, as you put it in a "sanatorium".
          1. Greyfox
            Greyfox 24 August 2013 11: 13
            -39 qualifying.
            first you need to read, grasp the essence of the article, and then give your opinion to people, and it is these people who created these concentration camps, because you want to put the author without trial and investigation, as you put it in a "sanatorium".

            The essence of the article is to show how bad everything was with them and how everything was "legally" white and fluffy with us. Maybe I did not catch some other meaning? And what does it mean to send the author without trial and investigation? By decision of the "deuce" (or another number (for example, the police detain the author or people approving the author on the street, find a cartridge in his pocket, then the "deuce" from the head of the ROVD and his deputy, without any red tape, awards 5 years for storing ammunition and they go to their beloved ITL, according to the law, knowing for what, and for a measurable period. It is natural to re-educate.) So, before applauding such wretches, I advise you to try the situation on yourself.
            1. Avenger711
              Avenger711 24 August 2013 13: 10
              +6
              What do you not understand, ? Stole - to prison. Spied - to the wall.
            2. smile
              smile 24 August 2013 18: 47
              16
              Greyfox
              And in my opinion, the essence of the article is that our situation was relatively similar to the situation in other countries, but much better than in those to which our enemies are trying to equate us .... who themselves are not without sin ....
              About the case with a patron, I assure you that with a 99 percent guarantee, a person will receive a term even after a trial with any red tape ... only a miracle or rare idiocy of those who falsify the case can save. It is now. So, an example, alas, is not in your favor. But if you now have a half percent chance of justification, then with the evil Stalin, about 20 percent .... feel the difference ..... try it on yourself ... :)))
              1. choice
                choice 25 August 2013 09: 39
                -15 qualifying.
                Political leaders have always been distinguished by the fact that they always applied no less rotten and reliable statistics to their rotten ideas. By the way, by their very definition, reactionary pseudoscience ... hereinafter.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 33
                  +6
                  Quote: choice
                  Political leaders have always been distinguished by the fact that to their rotten ideas


                  How-what?
                  Can you tell Commissioner Fomin that? Well, about rotten ideas?

                2. Eugene
                  Eugene 26 August 2013 08: 05
                  0
                  Have you seen the political instructors? The Komsomol? It seems that there isn’t. And I saw. Believe me, these are not bankers with a dress code. Normal men who will listen and help.
                  1. Doctorleg
                    Doctorleg 26 August 2013 17: 52
                    +1
                    Politruk and Komsomol were the same people like everyone else. Both bad and good. And there were many bad ones, because, unlike others, they had to say what was ordered, even if they did not agree. And yes, I saw them - both in the army and at work
            3. nerd.su
              nerd.su 24 August 2013 19: 29
              +9
              Quote: Greyfox
              By decision of the "deuce" (or another number (for example, the police detain the author or people approving the author on the street, find a cartridge in his pocket, then the "deuce" from the head of the ROVD and his deputy, without any red tape, awards 5 years for storing beloved ITL, according to the law, knowing for what, and for a reasonable period. It's easy to re-educate.)

              First, not a deuce, but a triple. any commission has a minimum of three people. And the composition would be - the head of the regional police department, the prosecutor of the region and the senator or speaker of the regional parliament.
              Secondly, if the conditions are similar, that is, material interest and responsibility of the members of the triples (and many suffered at that time) are excluded, then I am only for! Order will reign almost instantly.
              And you are offended by some kind of person. What great-grandfather was shot for giving money at interest to people?
              1. Greyfox
                Greyfox 24 August 2013 21: 28
                -9
                About the case with the cartridge, I assure you that with the 99 percentage guarantee, a person will receive a term even after a trial with any red tape ... only a miracle or rare idiocy of those who falsify the case can save. It is now. So, an example, alas, is not in your favor. But if you now have a half percent chance of justification, then with the evil Stalin, about 20 percent .... feel the difference .....

                In order to assure me, you have to be related to the judicial or police authorities. Did you work there? By the way, under the evil Stalin, you would have received the article "terrorism" for the patron with a probability of thirty percent and would have taken upon yourself an attempt on the leader's life (you would have taken it, no doubt!). And you would not have been far too lucky. suspended sentence?
                Quote: bot.su

                First, not a deuce, but a triple. any commission has a minimum of three people. And the composition would be - the head of the regional police department, the prosecutor of the region and the senator or speaker of the regional parliament.
                Secondly, if the conditions are similar, that is, material interest and responsibility of the members of the triples (and many suffered at that time) are excluded, then I am only for! Order will reign almost instantly.
                And you are offended by some kind of person. What great-grandfather was shot for giving money at interest to people?

                The deuces consisted of a NKVD officer and a prosecutor. They would google it at least. Offended it looks like you. The mind.
                1. nerd.su
                  nerd.su 24 August 2013 22: 32
                  +4
                  Quote: Greyfox
                  The deuces consisted of an NKVD officer and a public prosecutor.

                  Well, I was surprised that I did not hear about them. Two in modern Russia is impossible, there is no such administrative unit. Only if the Attorney General and the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or their deputies. Do you seriously think that they would do cranks with cartridges? Their level is Khodorkovsky. And now only Putin makes sentences at such a level.
                  1. choice
                    choice 25 August 2013 09: 47
                    -1
                    Do not touch the holy!
                    )
                2. smile
                  smile 25 August 2013 12: 57
                  +5
                  Greyfox
                  Forgive me. but what is our judicial system, I know firsthand and that is why I said about the percentage ... :))))
                  Question. If you are tried for patronage, the seizure is correctly drawn up in the materials, there are witnesses, the prosecutor’s office checked your complaint about falsification (they will interview police officers who will say that you are a radish and they are honest servants), which states that the actions policemen there was no violation of laws, there are your angry testimonies that all this is NIPRAVDAAAAAA !!!!
                  Your actions? How will you defend yourself? How to build a defense lawyer if he wants to get your acquittal? And what are the odds? :))))
                  1. Greyfox
                    Greyfox 25 August 2013 15: 53
                    -1
                    Quote: smile
                    Greyfox
                    Forgive me. but what is our judicial system, I know firsthand and that is why I said about the percentage ... :))))
                    Question. If you are tried for patronage, the seizure is correctly drawn up in the materials, there are witnesses, the prosecutor’s office checked your complaint about falsification (they will interview police officers who will say that you are a radish and they are honest servants), which states that the actions policemen there was no violation of laws, there are your angry testimonies that all this is NIPRAVDAAAAAA !!!!
                    Your actions? How will you defend yourself? How to build a defense lawyer if he wants to get your acquittal? And what are the odds? :))))

                    Do not need verbiage. You DO NOT WORK in the system. Firsthand, I can know about anything. You haven’t given any arguments about calculating justice in 95 and 37. Your argument about the legitimacy of extrajudicial sentences speaks better than all other words ... As well as the number of people rehabilitated FOR THE ABSENCE OF THE CRIMINAL STRUCTURE, it speaks of the quality of the judicial extra-judicial system of the Stalin era.
                    1. sleepy
                      sleepy 25 August 2013 21: 08
                      +2
                      Quote: Greyfox
                      "... As well as the number of people rehabilitated
                      FOR THE ABSENCE OF CRIMINAL SAYS
                      on the quality of the extrajudicial system of the Stalin era. "


                      Now on the Internet a lot is written about the current modern judicial system of the DeMocracy era.
                      "The Russian government recently submitted a bill to the State Duma, which experts have already dubbed "The end of domestic forensics."
                      This law provides for a significant expansion of the list of articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, according to which it will be possible to apply special procedure for legal proceedings.
                      The law itself is called extremely faded and inexpressive -
                      "On Amendments to the Criminal Procedure Code of the Russian Federation", but behind this nondescript title is a very dangerous initiative. After all, the court in such cases is more reminiscent of the notorious "troikas":
                      The defendant is sentenced in one sitting,
                      without examination of evidence and only on the basis of
                      his own recognition.

                      True, the punishment is not more than two third of the maximum term for the defendant, but when it comes, for example, to 15 years,
                      then two-thirds - a very solid period.
                      According to the forecasts of lawyers, if such a law comes into force,
                      then almost 80% of all criminal cases will fall under its action.
                      That is, almost all criminal cases may not be investigated at all, evidence will not be required to collect either ... "
                      http://rosndp.org/konec-rossijskogo-pravosudiya.htm

                      We live in an interesting time.
                      That's just under Stalin, all enterprises were
                      in the ownership of the USSR and for speculation in currency were given a term.
                      And now many enterprises are owned by private individuals
                      and who controls the dollar in Russia - the US Federal Reserve?
                      So a comparison of the current judicial system, when money, money, communications, communications ...,
                      with the time of Stalin, when even relatives of high-ranking officials were imprisoned - incorrectly.
                    2. smile
                      smile 26 August 2013 01: 36
                      +2
                      Greyfox
                      Listen .... I did not work in the police ... the police .... she usually only answers me when necessary ... where will she go ... :))))
                      And I described the real situation .... you don’t have any options for answering my question, right? Otherwise, they would answer ... :))) This is where yours comes from .... so to speak, categorization and ardor? :))))
                      If you are planning to answer, do not forget to answer the question I asked in your comment on my post ... this is important ... :)))
                      Further ... I did not say anything about legitimacy, the reasons for rehabilitation ..... also, speculating on the number of rehabilitated, please note that people have been rehabilitated for half a century, ... or rather, more ... moreover, in almost constantly belligerent the country .... and the last .... at the Regional Prosecutor's Office of the Kaliningrad Region there is a department that is engaged in rehabilitation .... I personally know the guys who work there, under vodka they tell such things about how they consider issues at this topic ..... I assure you ... there are about the same legitimacy as in sentencing .... moreover, they would be happy to shoot a significant part of the rehabilitated .... .... :))))
                      And I didn’t say anything about legitimacy, just like about the quality of work of the investigation and sentencing authorities, and I didn’t say anywhere that everything was perfect then ... do not lie .... :))))
                      The main topic of the article is with us no worse than in the West and much worse than there. who are we compared with Western enemies who do not hide their hostility ....
                      1. Greyfox
                        Greyfox 26 August 2013 08: 18
                        0
                        Quote: smile
                        Greyfox
                        And I didn’t say anything about legitimacy, just like about the quality of work of the investigation and sentencing authorities, and I didn’t say anywhere that everything was perfect then ... do not lie .... :))))

                        Didn’t they say exactly?
                        And the triplets and special meetings that did not exist for very long (and special meetings still, in my opinion, have taken away the right to pronounce sentences on grave articles with a serious punishment, not to mention the death penalty, from the 39 year) quite legitimate court verdicts.

                        Do I quote from you? I'm lying?
                        also, rasssolivaya about the number of rehabilitated, please note that rehabilitated people for half a century

                        Quote from Wiki (the closest thing that comes to hand)
                        Massive legal rehabilitation began as a result of the work of the commission of P. N. Pospelov. In 1954 — 1961 due to the lack of corpus delicti, 737 182 people were rehabilitated, convicts were denied the rehabilitation of 208 448; in 1962 — 1983 157 055 people were rehabilitated,

                        As you can see, the account for numbers close to a million revised cases does not go on for half a century. You can also "talk about" about the rehabilitation of the times of perestroika (+800 thousand more)
                        Well, now about the patron ... Drinking vodka with prosecutorial clerks and working in the police-police is, as they say in Odessa, two big differences. I will not develop the topic, but I will only say one thing - having a lawyer in such a case and an open court hearing greatly increases your chances, if not an excuse, then a suspended sentence. And no one will re-qualify the article "storage" as "terrorism". I gave you an example with a patron to explain that the same meeting with a "figure" would have turned into a disaster for you.
                        PS I left the topic, but I’ll read your answer.
                      2. smile
                        smile 27 August 2013 03: 07
                        +1
                        Greyfox
                        damn, because I was going to sleep .... but I read your answer ... given that you and I once fought in the same ranks, I’ll answer ... but briefly ...
                        1. your second quote is fair, I simplified it, well, and there about-quotation reasoning is unprincipled .... but ..
                        2. Quotation 4 ... from right through to false pedagogy .... the mention of which clearly indicates that the citing person is not only not worthy of working in the System .... but he and ..... the brain muscle is not suitable for establishing the truth in the case .... :))))))) without comment ...
                        Also, you didn’t even try to provide evidence that compliance with the law during rehabilitation is at least consistent with that which was observed during the sentencing ... well, you don’t have them ... :))))
                        and lastly .... you did not answer the question about the cartridge ... I gave an introductory .... you gave a slipping away ..... maybe that makes all the difference .... and I know the work in the police ... and only those who can’t even imagine who they are talking about can call those whom you call the heads of capital. and what authority they have .... I respect your self-confidence if you take the responsibility to evaluate them ... :))))))) Bye ... :))))
                      3. Greyfox
                        Greyfox 27 August 2013 08: 09
                        0
                        I also did not want to return, but I will note that I know the prosecutors and about their "powers" to "resolve issues", which is why I call them clerks, especially the young generation of the prosecutor's office.
                        About such a "thin" insult to my mental faculties. I warned that the quote from Wiki was cited as from the first source I came across. But the same order of numbers is given by other sources. Try to argue with them, give your numbers (but I beg you not from Mukhin or the like).
                      4. smile
                        smile 27 August 2013 12: 22
                        0
                        Greyfox
                        Well, about the prosecutors, I agree. there’s nothing to argue about.
                        Regarding my "thick hints" .... sorry ...., I just hate pedigree selflessly ... :)))).
                        Regarding the numbers, I didn’t say that all the convicts ended up in the camp and against the wall legally and reasonably .... but I did. that a significant part was almost rehabilitated by the Chokh, namely illegally. and it’s unreasonable .... the country was almost in a state of martial law. almost a war was fought against us, not so cold .... this must also be taken into account ...
        2. choice
          choice 25 August 2013 09: 45
          -10 qualifying.
          Each especially conscious kaylo in his hands and in the barracks has to restore suctionism. Voluntarily, without wasting time with wonderful triples, twos and fives.
      2. maxvet
        maxvet 25 August 2013 08: 38
        +3
        Quote: Greyfox
        The essence of the article is to show how bad everything was with them and how everything was "legally" white and fluffy with us. Maybe I did not catch some other meaning?

        That is the matter - whatever it was, but the court. And the court on certain articles, yes on the basis of denunciations, slander, beating testimony, without lawyers, with a knowingly guilty verdict, but a court with a certain term, which is defined in a concentration camp there wasn’t, and the possibility of rehabilitation was-is and there are examples (and from the concentration camp were Jews rehabilitated?)
        1. choice
          choice 25 August 2013 09: 50
          -4
          On the question of cannibalism with a human face ...
          1. smile
            smile 25 August 2013 12: 45
            +4
            choice
            Well. cannibalism, let’s put it, is the exclusive prerogative of the supporters of democracy and universal values, which the humane West fosters with its completely rotten ideas — to rob and enslave the whole world .... :))))
      3. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 32
        +1
        Quote: Greyfox
        The essence of the article is to show how bad everything was with them and how "legal" everything was white and fluffy with us.


        This is not the essence of the article.

        Quote: Greyfox
        Maybe I still didn’t catch any sense?


        No, they didn’t.
        Before going into the discussion, learn to read carefully and, if possible, understand the text.
        1. Greyfox
          Greyfox 25 August 2013 15: 58
          -3
          To whip Before entering into a discussion, learn to read carefully and, if possible, understand the text.

          Oh yes, where do I go to the forum marshal with such knowledge of the Russian language.
          1. Greyfox
            Greyfox 25 August 2013 19: 20
            -4
            Now you, Carlson with a lumber, will forever remain in my memory as "Marshal BETWEEN" laughing laughing laughing Bugagashenki !!!
            PS Do not burst with anger. Better read the dictionary, spelling ... laughingYou can still remember. You look, let go. Forum manager. laughing laughing
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 26 August 2013 11: 53
              0
              Quote: Greyfox
              Now you, Carlson with a railroad tie, will forever remain in my memory as "Marshal BETWEEN"


              And you will not stay in my memory, sorry hi - I don’t remember the idiots who hate their homeland; lately there have been too many such idiots request .
              1. Greyfox
                Greyfox 26 August 2013 12: 24
                0
                A few weeks ago, you first confessed to me "how you hate us Germans," then you apologized, finding out that I was Russian, then you tried to protect the Chechens (let me remind you that Stalin was somehow not very good at them), then you sent hints in pictures about my attitude to persons of Jewish nationality, now I am an idiot who hates my homeland. Indeed, BETWEEN I do not remember.
                Knowing your history doesn't mean being an idiot. Critically (this means seeing not only good or bad, but taking into account both good and bad, besides the eviction of "animals" by Stalin, I am good. I know that not according to the law, but on the other hand, in fairness) to treat the activities of the leaders does not mean to hate one's own Homeland. It is all the more surprising that a person living in Ukraine invents hatred for my Motherland of Russia.
                PS You can still talk. The anger of limited people has always amused me.
          2. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 26 August 2013 11: 55
            0
            Quote: Greyfox
            Oh yes, where do I go to the forum marshal with such knowledge of the Russian language.


            Of course, you are up to me like a roof wink .
            We were given marks at random at a sports school, so I write with errors crying .
    2. choice
      choice 25 August 2013 09: 32
      -5
      Not to plant, but to award the Stalin Prize. For 25 years.
  2. Avenger711
    Avenger711 24 August 2013 13: 10
    -10 qualifying.
    Just for you, a fool, there is a place.
  3. smile
    smile 24 August 2013 18: 39
    10
    Greyfox
    And the triplets and special meetings that did not exist for very long (and special meetings still, in my opinion, from the age of 39 had the right to pronounce sentences on serious articles with a serious sentence, not to mention the death penalty) were given quite legitimate court verdicts. It was just a simplified judicial system. I will not say. that I like her, and there were plenty of jambs .... BUT, under the evil Stalin, even in the harshest 37-39 years, about 20 percent of the defendants were acquitted .... for comparison, now about one and a half percent ... think about these numbers. .... by the way, before the year 95, the average number of people who actually served their sentences was well over a million .... it was more than it was in the whole Union during the time of repression ...
    The mortality rate of prisoners before the war was approximately the same with the American one and only during the war significantly exceeded it ... the peak death rate in the ITL was 42-44 years, when the whole country was swollen from starvation and dying, giving everything to the front ... .... by the way, and ask who built the roads in the United States during the Great Depression, when people were dying from their hunger by millions no worse than in Ukraine, the Volga region and some other places during the terrible crop failures at a certain time .. ..find a lot of new things .... :)))
    So how are you going to draw conclusions? :)))
    1. AlNikolaich
      AlNikolaich 24 August 2013 21: 52
      +8
      Quote: smile
      And the triplets and special meetings that did not exist for very long (and special meetings still have, in my opinion, the right to pronounce sentences on serious articles with a serious sentence, not to mention the death penalty) were pronounced quite legitimate court verdicts from the 39 of the year. It was just a simplified judicial system.

      As far as my memory serves me, the powers of special meetings and triples were cut off in connection with the New Year. Thanks to this gallant drug, a bunch of innocents have suffered, and the dogs are still hanging on Stalin.
      By the way, after the deeds of Yezhov, there was a review of cases, rehabilitation, and it seems that a lot of people from the camps returned ...
      1. smile
        smile 25 August 2013 00: 00
        +1
        AlNikolaich
        Yes, memory does not fail you, but I also just do not remember some dates offhand ....
        1. choice
          choice 25 August 2013 09: 58
          -4
          All that was not with me, I remember ...
          1. smile
            smile 25 August 2013 12: 48
            +2
            choice
            I congratulate you, unfortunate. it is very noticeable in your comments .... they say. people like you are being treated with electric shocks, try it, it will help ... maybe it definitely won’t be worse .... :))))
      2. choice
        choice 25 August 2013 09: 57
        -5
        Yes, yes, it seems like socialism with a human face ...
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 25 August 2013 13: 34
          +5
          Quote: choice
          "Yes, yes, it seems like socialism with a human face ...".


          Socialism was with a human face, in contrast to the capitalist system with competition. Under socialism there were state farms and collective farms.
          And there was enough work for every taste. Who worked on the field
          some livestock farmers, some drivers, some tractor drivers,
          some in the car repair shop, some doctors, some veterinarians. who are teachers
          some sellers, some accountants, some road craftsmen.
          State farms are work. And there is no work, no money.
          A personal site can only be seen as a way to survive.
          retired, if there is still strength.
          Again, on the collective farm, you could ask a tractor driver, you could take a horse, keep a garden there were no problems, and now everything is very expensive, even dung, and it's scary in an extinct village.

          In 1952, it was planned ... to reduce the working day to 6,
          and then up to 5 hours.
          “This is necessary in order for the members of the community to have enough free time to receive a comprehensive education.
          For this, it is necessary, further, to introduce compulsory polytechnical education (Japan is only now approaching this - ed.), Necessary so that members of society have the opportunity to freely choose a profession and not be confined for life to one profession. For this, it is necessary, further, to radically improve housing conditions and raise the real salary of workers and employees at least twice, if not more, both by directly raising the cash salary and, especially, by further systematically lowering the prices of consumer goods.
          These are the basic conditions for preparing the transition to communism ... "
          (Stalin, "Economic problems of socialism in the USSR").
      3. carver
        carver 25 August 2013 13: 41
        +1
        Quote: AlNikolaich
        As far as memory serves me


        Memory does not change you at all :). Troikas existed only in 37-38, after which "Yezhovshchina" ended and Dzhugashvili, on this wave of all these "Izeys" in power, began to clean up and came to sole power in the country.
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 25 August 2013 14: 20
          +6
          Already wrote about repression, but I repeat.

          "A little about the repressions of 1937. Not the Berievskys, but the Yezhovskys.
          The name Beria is primarily associated with repression.
          The simplest question: when were the "Beria repressions"?
          For the notorious "37th year" is the then chief of the NKVD Comrade Yezhov.
          Even the expression was - "hedgehogs".
          Post-war repressions were also carried out when Beria did not work in the organs, and when he arrived there in 1953, the first thing he did was to stop them.
          "Order of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR No. 0068" On the prohibition of the use of any measures of coercion and physical pressure against arrested persons. " April 4, 1953
          http://shieldandsword.mozohin.ru/documents/order0068.htm

          When there were “Beria rehabilitation” - this is clearly recorded in the history. And “Beria's repression” is a pure product of “black PR”.

          Beria also owns another invention of the era - “sharashka”.
          Among the arrested there were many people who were very necessary to the country.
          Of course, these were not poets and writers, about whom they shout most and loudest, but scientists, engineers, designers who worked for defense.

          Repression in this environment is a special topic. Who and under what circumstances planted the developers of military equipment in the context of an impending war?
          The question is far from rhetorical.
          Firstly, in the NKVD there were real agents of Germany,
          who, according to real tasks of real German intelligence, tried to neutralize people useful to the Soviet defense complex.
          Secondly, there were no less “dissidents” in those days,
          than in the late 80s.
          Moreover, the environment is incredibly squabbling, and the denunciation in it has always been a favorite means of settling accounts and career growth.
          Be that as it may, by accepting the people's commissariat of internal affairs, Beria was confronted with the fact that there were hundreds of arrested scientists and designers in his department, whose work the country simply needed to do.

          As it is now fashionable to say - feel yourself Commissar!
          Before you lies the case. This person may be to blame, or may be innocent, but he is necessary. What to do? Write: “Free,” showing subordinates an example of lawlessness of the opposite property? Check things out?
          Yes, of course, but you have a closet in which 600 thousand cases.
          In fact, for each of them it is necessary to conduct a second investigation,
          but there are no frames. If we are talking about already convicted, we must also achieve the abolition of the sentence. Where to start? With scientists? With the military?
          And time goes on, people are sitting, the war is getting closer ...

          Beria quickly oriented. Already 10 January 1939, he signs an order to organize the Special Technical Bureau. The research topics are purely military: aircraft manufacturing, shipbuilding, shells, armor steel. From the experts of these industries, sitting in prisons, formed the whole group.

          When the opportunity turned up, Beria tried to free these people. For example, on May 25, 1940, the aircraft designer Tupolev was sentenced to 15 years in camps, and in the summer he was released under an amnesty.
          A large group of developers of military equipment released
          in the summer of 1941, another one - in 1943, the rest got freedom
          from 1944 to 1948 ... "
          http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/432101.html
        2. Eugene
          Eugene 26 August 2013 08: 14
          +1
          So what? Dzhugashvili set up palaces for himself? Did the Maybakhov buy him? He was buried in his tunic! No inheritance!
          1. labendik
            labendik 26 August 2013 13: 21
            0
            He had an entire country !!! Fuck him Maybach? !!
    2. Greyfox
      Greyfox 25 August 2013 08: 08
      -8
      And the triplets and special meetings that did not exist for very long (and special meetings still have, in my opinion, the right to pronounce sentences on serious articles with a serious sentence, not to mention the death penalty) were pronounced quite legitimate court verdicts from the 39 of the year. It was just a simplified judicial system.

      Consider the answer to my question about working in law enforcement agencies - YOU DIDN'T WORK THERE! Any more or less literate person would immediately tell you that extrajudicial bodies are ILLEGAL! At least because it contradicted the Constitution of 1936. And accordingly, all "sentences" passed by these extrajudicial bodies are illegal and must be canceled (in a normal state)
      BUT, under evil Stalin, even in the harshest 37-39 years, about 20 percent of the defendants were acquitted .... for comparison, now about one and a half percent ... think about these numbers ..... by the way, until 95, the average number of people who are actually serving sentences great exceeded a million .... it was more than sitting throughout the Union during the time of repression ...

      So, before our eyes, a myth is being born about the justice of the judicial system of the Stalin era, which really scatters like a husk from the wind if you think about it. In the courts in the 30s, falsified cases were rampant. Relatively speaking (there are no exact figures, I judge by the millions of rehabilitated "FOR LACK OF COMPOSITION CRIMES "), 100 cases came to the court, 90 of which were falsification, and in some cases the falsification is such that the judges, with all their class approach, cannot stamp it. Hence the acquittals. Therefore, for stamping such falsification," troikas "and other extrajudicial husk
      Nowadays, "phony" cases are also sent to the courts, but this "linden" is of a completely different nature (for example, they caught a "house owner" and hung on him all the unsolved burglaries in the area) and a completely different percentage of such cases. Relatively speaking, out of 100 cases we have 5 to find fault with.
      Now count the percentage of justice at that time and now.
      Here's a link for you, in principle, everything is explained there about your "legitimacy" (buggashenki, I can't say otherwise) .http: //corporatelie.livejournal.com/5755.html
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 25 August 2013 14: 13
        +4
        Quote: Greyfox
        "Now calculate the percentage of equity at that time and now.
        Here's a link for you, in principle, everything is explained there about your "legitimacy" (buggashenki, I can't say otherwise). Http://corporatelie.livejournal.com/5755.html ".


        I read the link and comments in it with interest.
        How to determine the Truth, when on the one hand about the industrialization of the country, and on the other hand about illegally convicted?
        Ask yourself a question - did you have relatives who died in the Great Patriotic War?
        I can immediately answer about my family - one grandfather went missing, leaving for the militia, another grandfather from dystrophy at a military factory.
        Of the eight cousins ​​of grandfathers (brothers grandmothers and husbands sisters grandmothers)
        returned from war alone.
        Therefore, I can say that the Great Patriotic War did not go around a single house.
        Under Stalin, none of the relatives sat.
        Under Brezhnev, one relative was serving a sentence for hooliganism,
        and then he was forcibly treated for alcoholism.
        Therefore, I do not believe in repression under Stalin, since many people asked similar questions at work with the result - there were many dead relatives in the war, no one was sitting under Stalin.
        Maybe everyone whose relatives were convicted under Stalin left, for example, to the United States, before that, actively helping to destroy the USSR.
      2. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 44
        +5
        Quote: Greyfox
        Consider the answer to my question about work in law enforcement bodies - YOU DID NOT WORK THERE! Any more or less literate person would immediately tell you that extrajudicial bodies are ILLEGAL.


        The practice of visiting triples began under tsarism, but it is illegal only under Stalin.



        Quote: Greyfox
        If only because it contradicted the Constitution of 1936, and, accordingly, all "sentences" passed by these extrajudicial bodies are illegal and subject to cancellation (in a normal state)


        Prove it! What contradicted.


        Quote: Greyfox
        So, before our eyes, a myth is being born about the justice of the judicial system of the Stalin era, which really scatters like a husk from the wind if you think about it. In the courts in the 30s, falsified cases were rampant. Relatively speaking (there are no exact figures, I judge by the millions of rehabilitated "FOR LACK OF COMPOSITION CRIMES "), 100 cases came to the court, 90 of which were falsification, and in some cases the falsification is such that the judges, with all their class approach, cannot stamp it. Hence the acquittals. Therefore, for stamping such falsification," troikas "and other extrajudicial husk
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 25 August 2013 21: 37
          +3
          Quote: Greyfox

          “So, before our very eyes, a myth is being born about the justice of the judicial system of the Stalinist era, which really scatters like a husk from the wind if you think about it.
          In the 30s, fraudulent cases were brought to the courts. "


          Maybe about the current time, when the myth of justice of the judicial system of the democratic era is born.
          Especially if you criticize the time of Stalin's rule.

          Best of all about the current time on the forums.
          I apologize for the large number of citations, could not resist.

          "Correctly or not, I don't know, but in this topic I will try to lay out all the insanity, which is issued by the leadership of our" Moscow Region Department of Internal Affairs ", maybe civilians will appreciate and stick in how the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation functions (or rather agonizes).
          #_ the ATC officer on duty reads the summary for a day - the ATC chief at the end asks him the question "Why do the buses go dirty in the city."
          The duty officer in a stupor. The boss orders to punish the duty officer.
          The result-attendant is reprimanded for the KUSP material,
          closed late. "
          "Morning, the duty officer of the shift shift meets the chief of the internal affairs department,
          on approach, at the entrance.
          Reports:
          - Registered ... crimes. Undisclosed: robbery, wear, etc. etc.
          And he is in his forehead, without hesitation
          - Why are the flowers in the flower bed not watered? "

          "Recently, the final meeting for the six months. In the room, the staff, the prosecutor's office, the deputy head of the Internal Affairs Directorate for the MOB Zhopov, the management of the o / m.
          Zhopov begins to tear the district police officers and recalls how he was driving a car, and an accident happened in front of him.
          (One of the Tajik drivers. There is a conflict between the drivers
          and they are brought to the department, where they agree amicably).
          Zhopov, running into the UUM, which resolved the conflict, such as the Tajiks were stupefied, and our children will soon be unable to go down the street because of them. He yells at the policeman, pokes him, is rude, hints at bribery, waves his hand, and on his hand he has a chronometer in a gold case and with a gold bracelet worth about 4 thousand euros.
          At the same time, many people know that from a huge construction site on which Tajiks are figuring, they pay him 400 thousand rubles a month, I don’t even talk about the rest of the construction sites. If the UUM comes to the construction site where Zhopov is roofing, then the head of the unit first calls, and then Zhopov calls UUM to himself with the passport of the site and starts it as soon as he can (thank God, the former traffic cop does not understand anything, I’m the former traffic cop).
          After that, the prosecutor takes the floor and, by the way, he has to "like in that TALE, about the swan, cancer and .......... (recalls) - the pike."
          Then Colonel Zhopov transforms, nods his head and let's assent "yes, yes .. pike, pike."
          The staff looks at him and almost frankly neighs.
          I look at this fagot and there is a desire to throw ksiva at him.
          While holding on.
          ______________
          our power will come - we will frolic to our hearts' content! "
          Continuation of http://www.police-russia.ru/showthread.php?t=6363
    3. choice
      choice 25 August 2013 09: 55
      -7
      Winter has passed, summer will come soon
      And I honestly want to say
      Thanks to our Party for this!
      And personally to Leonid Ilyich!
    4. poquello
      poquello 25 August 2013 14: 32
      +2
      Quote: smile
      under evil Stalin, even in the harshest 37-39 years, about 20 percent of the defendants were acquitted .... for comparison, now about one and a half percent ... think about these numbers ..... by the way, before the year 95, the average number of people who actually served their sentences was well over a million .... it was more than sitting throughout the Union during the time of repression ...

      Please give statistics - how and in what cases, terminations are pending before being passed (this is about one and a half percent) and do not forget to add executions (this is about 95)
  4. Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 37
    +2
    Quote: Greyfox
    ..Ah, yes in this propaganda leaflet about them is mentioned


    Are you one of these?
    1. Greyfox
      Greyfox 25 August 2013 15: 45
      -6
      No, of these you ...
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 26 August 2013 11: 59
        -1
        Quote: Greyfox
        No, of these you ...


        Personally, I'm one of those
        1. Greyfox
          Greyfox 26 August 2013 12: 34
          0
          Don’t hang on. A few weeks ago it turned out that besides your grandfather-Chekist, nothing connects you with work in law enforcement agencies. And with the army most likely too.
  5. edge
    edge 26 August 2013 02: 10
    +1
    Quote: Greyfox
    The author would be shoved into this "sanatorium"

    Yes, and it would not hurt you to visit ....
  • choice
    choice 25 August 2013 09: 30
    -3
    Lenin is still more alive than all the living ...
    Politruk forever!
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 46
      +3
      Quote: choice
      Lenin is still more alive than all the living ...
      Politruk forever!


      Fat troll? belay
  • solomon
    solomon 24 August 2013 10: 55
    -16 qualifying.
    З Днем Незалежності України!
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 24 August 2013 13: 12
      +8
      They speak Russian here, this time. Go and congratulate in Ukraine, not here. I would also congratulate the United States on Independence Day.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. solomon
        solomon 24 August 2013 15: 38
        -4
        What kind of aggressiveness. As if sitting on needles. You see the negative in everything.
        Firstly. I did not congratulate you, there is nothing to resent.
        Secondly. Congratulated those who consider this holiday their own. And not only Ukrainians, and not only in Ukraine.
        1. mark7
          mark7 24 August 2013 20: 44
          +5
          The question is to write in Russian, which would be clear to everyone
  • choice
    choice 25 August 2013 09: 26
    -14 qualifying.
    One essence: two cannibalistic regimes for the destruction of people. Forms are formally different.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 47
      +7
      Quote: choice
      One essence: two cannibalistic regimes for the destruction of people. Forms are formally different.


      Svanidze are you ?! belay
      What did you forget here?
      1. 31231
        31231 25 August 2013 17: 10
        +2
        Bggg. Here below, Gozman also seems to flood.
  • aviator46
    aviator46 25 August 2013 22: 00
    -4
    Article for stupid patiots
    Solovetsky camp - the first demonstration state concentration camp in the world
    A general answer was given in the decisions of the Nuremberg Tribunal.

    1. For the first time in world history, the Solovetsky camps became a STATE STRUCTURE (State structures were created in the rank of a ministry, managing the camps - OGPU, NKVD, MGB.
    2. The camps were created by DIRECT INDICATION OF THE FIRST PERSONS OF THE STATE, who are PERSONALLY AND DIRECTLY involved in the murders of their own citizens through the secret state decrees or orders issued by them. (Secret Resolution of the Council of People's Commissars "On the organization of the Solovetsky forced labor camp" dated 02.11.1923. With the participation of Vladimir Lenin, signed by his deputy - Alexei Rykov and his secretary Nikolai Gorbunov. The so-called "execution lists" of Joseph Stalin).
    3. A vile LEGAL BASIS has been created for sending to the camp (58 Article of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR).
    4. A STATE SYSTEM of ideological support for the camps was created - the state media exposed the "enemies of the people" and brainwashed the people themselves, public figures justified and praised terror ...
    5. The camps were intended for the destruction of the POLITICAL OPPOSITION inside the country (the destruction and exile of prominent members of other political parties, members of social movements and political organizations).
    6. The camps were used to SOLVE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS - the prisoners dug canals, built factories, erected settlements, etc., and the concentration camps were integrated into civil institutions, for example, the Ministry of Railway Transport, the Ministry of Construction, etc.
    7. Concealment of crimes in the camps was carried out AT THE STATE LEVEL (Soviet secret decree of the KGB of the USSR No. 108ss). War criminals were covered by the STATE, presenting them with STATE orders, insignia and honorary titles "Pe8. Incredible and previously unknown in history SCALE OF KILLS (According to various estimates, up to 3 million people passed through the ELEPHANT concentration camp, and from 300 thousand to 1 million people died. ).
    9. Camps were used to intern and destroy OWN CITIZENS.
    10. Camps were used to intern representatives of ALL layers of society, and not representatives of certain groups of the population (military, rebels, migrants, etc.).
    11. Camps were used to destroy people in PEACE TIME.
    12. In the camps, people of all religions, genders, ages and nationalities were exterminated - Armenians, Belarusians, Hungarians, Georgians, Jews ... Kazakhs ... Russians ...
    These are the 12 signs that distinguish the SYSTEM of concentration camps from prisoner of war camps, from colonies for criminals, from penal battalions, from labor camps, reservations, ghettos, from filtration camps ...
    In none of these countries the camps were brought to the level of the STATE STRUCTURE, a state institution. Neither the Seimas, nor the Parliament, nor the Congress issued laws on the camps. Neither the prime minister nor the president personally gave orders to the punitive organs to "Shoot". The ministers of these countries did not inform their subordinates of state orders for the number of people shot. The prisoners of England and the USA did not build factories, canals, power plants, roads, universities, bridges ... they did not participate in the "atomic" project, did not sit in "sharashki". In none of these countries did the economy depend on the "filling" of the camps and the "economic return" of each prisoner. Newspapers in England did not howl in a wild frenzy, "Death to the enemies of the people!" The people of the USA did not demand "Death to Dogs" in the squares. And, most importantly, in none of these countries have camps existed for decades, for several generations ... in peacetime.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 26 August 2013 12: 04
      0
      Quote: aviator46
      Article for stupid patiots


      Are you smart?
      Thanks for coming!
      Without you we would be gone ....

      Quote: aviator46
      Solovetsky camp - the first demonstration state concentration camp in the world
      A general answer was given in the decisions of the Nuremberg Tribunal.


      Why did you run away from Durkee?
      The first concentration camp - a demonstration camp, was created by the British in Africa.
      The British created the first concentration camp in Russia.
      But this cannot be explained to idiots; they have their own guano in their heads.
      1. aviator46
        aviator46 26 August 2013 19: 40
        0
        Collect brains in a bunch and teach the "patriot" materiel.

        The British created the first CAMP, for the CIVIL POPULATION, to deprive the support of the fighting Boers, this population.
        The purpose of the CAMP was not destruction, but isolation, during hostilities.
        The British placed more than 200 thousand people in the camps - about 17 thousand people died ... from crowding, epidemics, bad water, etc.
        But not shot, not from overwork, not from hunger ...
        1. builder
          builder 26 August 2013 20: 32
          0
          Quote: aviator46
          not from hunger ...


          In the photo, the British aristocrat Lord Horace Kitchener, the creator of the first concentration camps, the Boer girl Lisa van Zil, who died from exhaustion in the British concentration camp.
        2. builder
          builder 26 August 2013 20: 35
          0
          Little captive of one of the English concentration camps for civilians
    2. Yurrra
      Yurrra 26 August 2013 22: 01
      0
      In all, over the years of the existence of the GULAG system, 15–18 million people passed through it [10]. Of these, approximately 1,5 million died in the camps [10]. This is for 26 years. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%A3%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B3
  • Siberian
    Siberian 24 August 2013 09: 23
    -30 qualifying.
    The prisoners of concentration camps worked, they died.
    Our prisoners in the gulag were still flooded in a barge on Lake Baikal.
    1. avt
      avt 24 August 2013 09: 57
      30
      Quote: Siberian
      Our prisoners in the gulag were still flooded in a barge on Lake Baikal.

      Dived and saw a barge with bones? I remember in the 90s Govorukhin was leading some kind of movie panorama and there was an impudent young director sitting there, like those that shoot different penal battalions. I, he says, conceived a film to shoot how a brothel was opened for sailors from convoys in the north, and then the women were shot. Govorukhin to him - “Yes? And are there any supporting documents? "No, says the" artist ", but after all this was under Stalin, it could well have been. Well, what about the Pikul TV series about the PQ-17 convoy, where women load boxes of gold onto an English cruiser, one dropped and the guards shot them right behind the barrier? The correct article, plus, the topic is painful, but the accents are right.
      Quote: Greyfox
      Who are these articles intended for? Who hasn't read anything at all? The author would be shoved into this "sanatorium".

      And about the "sanatorium" no one wrote or speaks, they sent them to Solovki in the family of dispossessed people, drank there, unlike Likhachev that he spent the whole war in the camp library, but returned home. But from a German concentration camp, they would hardly , this is a concrete destruction machine.
      1. choice
        choice 25 August 2013 10: 05
        -4
        A non-specific destruction machine is much more progressive and democratic than a concrete one.
      2. Allegedly
        Allegedly 26 August 2013 20: 49
        0
        Quote: avt
        women on english cruiser boxes loaded with gold


        Excuse me, do you know how much a box of gold weighs? Not even a little? Gold, by the way, is heavier than lead ...
    2. sso-xnumx
      sso-xnumx 24 August 2013 14: 41
      +5
      how do you know this, did you yourself drown something ???
      1. choice
        choice 25 August 2013 10: 08
        -9
        Now there are almost no those who drowned, shot, cut, strangled. Thus, the Bolsheviks and fascists will soon grow wings and white plumage.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 52
          +4
          Quote: choice
          Now there are almost no those who drowned, shot, cut, strangled. Thus, the Bolsheviks and fascists will soon grow wings and white plumage.


          I would have looked how you would have said it in the eyes of the communists - front-line soldiers, how you compare them with the fascists. bully
          It’s a pity that you live far away crying
  • Zhylaw
    Zhylaw 24 August 2013 09: 33
    18
    The Internet has enough information about planned US concentration camps for its population, about how the government in Washington purchased hundreds of thousands of coffins for three bodies.
    With the progressing economic crisis and the rapid collapse of American statehood and morality, we will soon become witnesses of things that are considered a trademark only by the Third Reich.
    I do not want to be a prophet of doom, however, the upcoming events around the world will make us think of people like Hitler, like innocent babies.
    After the collapse of the Roman Empire, there was a period of several centuries, often referred to by scholars as the "dark ages". I fear that the collapse of the United States and globalization will end a similar period of the dark ages.
    After what will soon happen in North America, no one else will remember the German concentration camps or the Gulag.
    1. sleepy
      sleepy 25 August 2013 14: 33
      +1
      Quote: Zhylaw
      "The Internet has enough information about the planned US concentration camps for their population, about how the government in Washington purchased hundreds of thousands of coffins for three bodies ..."


      Here is one of the links from the Internet.

  • cobalt
    cobalt 24 August 2013 10: 16
    +9
    These were the powers of the Special Meetings - Extrajudicial Bodies

    SPECIAL MEETING AT THE NKVD USSR
    Special meeting (“Special meeting at the College of GPU”, later - “Special meeting at the College of OGPU”, “Special Conference at the NKVD of the USSR”, “Special Meeting at the Ministry of State Security of the USSR”; CCA) in the USSR in 1922-1953 - an extrajudicial body, who had the power to consider criminal cases on charges of acts threatening the Soviet system (counter-revolutionary activities, anti-Soviet propaganda and agitation, treason, desertion in time of war, wrecking, etc.), and pronounce sentences on the results of the investigation, as well as review the decisions of the Military Collegiums of the Supreme Court. The special meeting had the right to pronounce sentences on imprisonment, exile or expulsion of the accused, as well as on the application of other penalties. In 1941-45, she could be sentenced to death. The CCA should not be confused with the NKVD Special Three.
    FEATURES
    A special meeting was formed by the relevant resolution of the CEC of the USSR. Its structure included:
    * Deputies of the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs,
    * authorized by the NKVD for the RSFSR,
    * Head of the Main Directorate of Workers 'and Peasants' Police,
    * People's Commissar of the Union Republic in whose territory the case arose.
    A special meeting was not part of the judicial system. Sentences by a special meeting were imposed out of court - “based on the results of the investigation”. The meeting was not bound by procedural rules, the trial was conducted without observing the principle of adversariality and impartiality, the defendant was not entitled to a lawyer. It was allowed to consider the case and pronounce the verdict in the absence of the accused (in practice, the vast majority of cases were considered in absentia).
    1. Snoop
      Snoop 24 August 2013 19: 30
      +7
      By the way, the Bolsheviks took this from tsarist Russia, there was originally a special meeting at the Ministry of Internal Affairs. We considered the affairs of the revolutionaries, and the practice was mainly in absentia))
      1. AlNikolaich
        AlNikolaich 24 August 2013 22: 10
        +3
        Quote: Snoop
        By the way, the Bolsheviks took this from tsarist Russia, there was originally a special meeting at the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Considered the affairs of the revolutionaries

        Thanks to Petr Arkadievich Stolypin for this! Compared to this "money-grubber of Great Russia," the People's Commissar Yezhov was a lamb. Half of the country flooded with blood, peasants froze in the north. Everyone remembers Stalin, and for some reason this figure is not among the liberals among the "beasts and sadists" ...
      2. choice
        choice 25 August 2013 10: 14
        -6
        The Tsarist secret police would have a little bit of Bolshevik bloodthirstiness ... 70 years of cannibalism in Russia might not have happened.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 50
          +2
          Quote: choice
          The Tsarist secret police would have a little bit of Bolshevik bloodthirstiness ... 70 years of cannibalism in Russia might not have happened.
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 25 August 2013 21: 50
            0
            Quote: choice

            "Now there are almost no people left who drowned, shot, cut, strangled.
            Thus, the Bolsheviks and fascists will soon grow wings and white plumage. "
            "The tsarist secret police would have a little bit of Bolshevik bloodthirstiness ... 70 years of cannibalism in Russia might not have happened."


            But now everyone is white and fluffy after the reforms in the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
            "The police reform initiated by Dmitry Medvedev during his presidency did not satisfy any experts,
            nor society. In the near future, the mechanism of "counter-reform" of the department may be launchedwrites Nezavisimaya Gazeta.

            According to the publication, in July, the first meeting of the working group on monitoring the Law on Police should be held, which will include deputies of the State Duma, as well as representatives of law enforcement agencies.
            The meeting will consider proposals for improving the law. About 100 initiatives have already been prepared.
            In fact, we are talking about a new reform of the department
            the newspaper writes.
            Among the first reorganization measures, restoration of district administrations and departments in the capitals of the subjects will be proposed.
            As a result of the reform, a single territorial body was created - the police department, and police departments lost the status of a legal entity.
            Many in the Ministry of Internal Affairs do not like that similar structures have survived
            in departments not affected by the reform - in the Investigative Committee, the prosecutor's office, tax authorities, so the restoration of the police department in regional capitals will be a priority proposal.

            The Ministry of Internal Affairs does not intend to part with the function of monitoring the implementation of migration legislation, despite the fact that the FMS left the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in May last year ... ".
            http://www.police-russia.ru/showthread.php?s=a72eab485bbe24565d0c6319fc5d4d48&t=
            82387

            There is a proposal - rename the police in the gendarmerie.
  • cobalt
    cobalt 24 August 2013 10: 26
    +5
    That's how the work of the NKVD triples was organized by order
    NKVD of 30.07.1937 No. 00447

    IV. ORDER OF CONSEQUENCES.]
    1. For each person arrested or a group of those arrested, an investigation file is opened. The investigation is carried out expeditiously and in a simplified manner.
    In the course of the investigation, all criminal ties of the arrested person must be identified.
    2. At the end of the investigation, the case is sent for consideration by the trio.
    The following persons are attached to the case: an arrest warrant, a search report, materials seized during the search, personal documents, an arrested person’s questionnaire, agent-registration material, an interrogation record and a brief indictment.
    V. ORGANIZATION AND WORK OF THE THREE]
    By order for each region, members of each three were appointed, the list is large, an example
    Alma-Ata region []
    • chairman - Shabanbekov
    • members of the Sadvakasov, Kujanov
    2. At meetings of triples may be present (where he is not part of the troika) republican regional or regional prosecutor.
    3. The troika conducts its work either at the point of location of the relevant NKVD, UNKVD or regional departments of the NKVD, or traveling to the locations of the operational sectors.
    4. The triples examine the materials submitted by him for each arrested person or group of those arrested, as well as for each family to be evicted separately.
    The triples, depending on the nature of the materials and the degree of social danger of the arrested person, can classify people who are targeted for repression in the 2nd category - to the first category and people who are scheduled for repression in the first category - to the second.
    5. The triples keep the minutes of their meetings, in which they record their sentences in relation to each convicted person.
    The minutes of the meeting of the three are sent to the head of the task force to carry out the sentences. Extracts from the minutes in relation to each convicted person are attached to investigative cases.
    VI. PROCEDURE FOR PERFORMING SENTENCES.]
    1. Sentences are executed by persons on the instructions of the chairmen of the triples, i.e. People's Commissars of the Republican NKVD, heads of departments or regional departments of the NKVD.
    The basis for the execution of the sentence is a certified extract from the minutes of the trio’s meeting with the sentence in respect of each convict and a special order signed by the chairman of the trio, handed to the person leading the sentence.
    2. Sentences in the first category are carried out in places and in order as directed by the people's commissars of internal affairs, heads of departments and regional departments of the NKVD with mandatory full confidentiality of the time and place of enforcement of the sentence.
    Documents on the execution of the sentence shall be attached in a separate envelope to the investigation file of each convict.
    3. Referral to camps for persons convicted of category 2 shall be made on the basis of the outfits reported by the GULAG of the NKVD of the USSR.
  • Siberian
    Siberian 24 August 2013 10: 33
    -21 qualifying.
    When I was in Severobaykalsk (a young town). We drove off to the mash tunnels in the hills. Well, they talked with the locals. They talked about the flooded barge with people. People are not young, but they could not see it. They know from their parents. It was not 1000 years ago when legends and fairy tales compose. Naturally, there are zero documents for such matters.
    1. 31231
      31231 24 August 2013 11: 16
      18
      If even such a precedent took place, then where did you get the idea that the barge was specially flooded ?! Not too smart in difficult times to let the barge into consumption ?! Belief in rumors and myths of people is unlimited. What Rezuny and Solzhenitsyn took advantage of.
      1. Siberian
        Siberian 24 August 2013 12: 35
        -7
        And where does Solzhenitsyn (cheap multilithicism). Yes, they spit on this old barge, these dunks. They had one goal ... And these people worked on mica adits. Take a ride there and see or hear. Although you probably need a piece of paper with a stamp. For confirmation.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 59
          +3
          Quote: Siberian
          Take a ride there and see, or hear.


          What to see? A barge with bones?
          What to hear Tales about what one grandfather told grandmother? what

          Quote: Siberian
          Although you probably need a piece of paper with a stamp. For confirmation.


          Yes, before asserting anything, it’s good to have proof of this.
        2. 31231
          31231 25 August 2013 17: 14
          +2
          Several times I ran to the market in Severobaikalsk to buy omul and grayling, the trouble, not a single trader told me such a "terrible truth".
      2. choice
        choice 25 August 2013 10: 25
        -11 qualifying.
        Read only authorized authors! Lenin (not in the first edition), Stalin. Take tests by reading. Not keeping pace - the highest measure. All decorum, power and the right course: a barge on the metal, the enemies - in the furnace.
    2. avt
      avt 24 August 2013 11: 17
      23
      Quote: Siberian
      Well, they talked with the locals. They talked about the flooded barge with people. People are not young, but they could not see it. They know from their parents. It wasn’t 1000 years ago when legends and fairy tales compose. Naturally, there are zero documents for such matters.

      Yes Yes . Another song of a killed deer. Everyone knows everything, but they themselves did not see it, but for sure it was, well, of course, there are no documents - after all, the ends were hidden in the water. In such cases, the de-Stalinizers mock the saying - “I have not read Pasternak, but I condemn“ That's when the troikas worked - and then the protocols and lists remained, and there they carried out rampant verdicts right away. ”The same fables were told about the Belomor channel, as allegedly there in hundreds of people were walled up in concrete.Kin about the mafia saw enough in the 90s and they carried different crap, but if someone really tried to throw out such a zaher at a construction site, he would not have lived an hour by the decision of the same troika. continuous cemeteries along the banks, even reports were filmed, although this did not prevent the same Solzhenitsyn from getting a house on such a "cemetery" should be for inspiration and Kasyanov was not far away trying to privatize the land there, probably for historical memory. By the way, what about the barge? In the nineties, historians "a whole steamer, which, according to their" discovery, "sailed after" Chelyuskin "was drowned in the glory of de-Stalinization with prisoners. For a long, very long time, we will still figure out where the tragedy is, but where is an outright lie, which deliberately mold on our history.
      1. Siberian
        Siberian 24 August 2013 11: 55
        -18 qualifying.
        If you are used to poking at papers with seals, then study them further. And according to the words of ordinary people not to trust, especially local. Your right. hi
        1. avt
          avt 24 August 2013 12: 53
          12
          Quote: Siberian
          And according to the words of ordinary people not to trust, especially local. Your right.

          Words to words are different, one thing is the legend of "eyewitnesses" in the third generation of those who have not seen the barge, but they know the case for sure about it, another thing, say Varlam Shalamov, who himself passed and, moreover, was a convinced Trotskyist, for which the actual term and received and flattened him not childishly, although if Trotsky, the founder and ideologist of the "labor armies", had won, then the same Shalamov would have also spread rot "enemies of the people" for the sake of the revolution, but for the Stalinists. on paper put by actor Zhzhenov, who also really rewound a lot of time for a fun trip with an American diplomat to Krasnaya Arrow, because his paper is somehow more glorious than your anecdotes about the barge from the words of eyewitnesses and more faith in it than you.
          1. Siberian
            Siberian 24 August 2013 15: 09
            -7
            If you believe the American papers, which will be more important than our "anecdotes" then shove your usa piece of paper into your pocket. SHE is truer and more reliable for you.
            1. avt
              avt 24 August 2013 15: 30
              10
              Quote: Siberian
              If you believe the American papers, which will be more important than our "jokes"

              Georgy Zhzhenov is a Soviet actor and his memoirs were quite published in our country, in the country where all this happened, as well as the Kolyma memories of Shalamov, and naturally they, like eyewitness testimony, are more glorious than the narrated anecdotes and THEY are more truthful and reliable, like everything about than the OCHISTERS and PARTICIPANTS of the events say, and not the exalted narrators of legends, before you write about "American papers" - read what is written, and not what you want, then you will not get stupid anymore.
            2. smile
              smile 24 August 2013 19: 02
              15
              Siberian
              Here's a strange thing, you accuse avt of trusting American pieces of paper, although at the same time it is you who express the same delusional versions that were replicated by the Solzhenitsyn, who worked under control and in close contact with the propaganda agencies of the US special services and some European countries ....
              tales about flooded barges, which, perhaps, the locals regaled you with, are no different in reliability from the same tales about underground bunkers, tunnels with railways and almost living fascists waiting in the wings near Kaliningrad - which is common among a certain part of the population, who is bored to live without horror stories .... the mechanism for the appearance of such horror stories is absolutely identical ... and "almost eyewitnesses" and "old people's legends" and their degree of reliability are exactly the same as yours .... :))))
          2. choice
            choice 25 August 2013 10: 33
            -5
            Each enemy of the people has its own wall! And after 50 years we will admire the pace of construction. After all, papers only about the walls will remain.
            1. mole
              mole 25 August 2013 12: 42
              +4
              Quote: choice
              Each enemy of the people has its own wall! And after 50 years we will admire the pace of construction. After all, papers only about the walls will remain.

              "To each his own". The inscription at the entrance to the camp - the crematorium of Buchenwald.
              If this principle acted in the USSR, then there would be no one to carry sloppiness at the present time. There is simply no one. Enemies would all remain at the wall! And the pace of construction would be different, probably several times higher than the pace of destruction!
              With all the wealth of choice ... Choose, choice!
          3. poquello
            poquello 25 August 2013 18: 49
            +2
            Quote: avt
            Quote: Siberian
            And according to the words of ordinary people not to trust, especially local. Your right.

            Words to words are different, one thing is the legend of "eyewitnesses" in the third generation of those who have not seen the barge, but they know the case for sure about it, another thing, say Varlam Shalamov, who himself passed and was also a convinced Trotskyist

            What are the words of ordinary people transmitted through two generations more insignificant than the words of people with well-known names? About pieces of paper - to save the family, people destroyed whatever documents they could.
        2. mole
          mole 24 August 2013 17: 10
          16
          I don’t remember that any of Stalin’s contemporaries really achieved great practical results in strengthening the country, even if he said something bad after death. Although they could. (Rokossovsky, Korolev). I believe these people.
          For some reason, without Stalin, we can’t do anything. Missiles are falling, ethnic conflicts are not quiet, corruption is half the budget.
          WHY???????? belay
      2. sso-xnumx
        sso-xnumx 24 August 2013 14: 47
        +7
        "yesterday again on behalf of the people
        Comrade Pasternak was convicted.
        we didn’t read his poems,
        but without that it is clear to us that he is an enemy ... "
        if you pass on the principle "one (one) woman (man) said ..." so you can agree to everyone and the more delusional the news, the more willingly they believe in it.
      3. choice
        choice 25 August 2013 10: 29
        -4
        Alas, it’s difficult to stick something to your story))) By the way, will you understand the composition of special triples?
    3. wax
      wax 24 August 2013 11: 56
      15
      http://www.usinfo.ru/c4.files/1917russiagallery.htm
      The Yankees, along with the Japanese, “served” the concentration camp and radio station set up there on the Russian island that was created in those years. Those tortured in the camp were drowned next to the island separately and by whole barges, tying their hands with barbed wire.

      There is evidence that after the intervention left, one of the divers, working at the flooded facilities near the Russian island, came across one of these barges, inside which "stood like living, connected people." Shocked by what he saw, the diver went crazy ...

      But aren't all these stories from here about barges flooded by the Bolsheviks?
      1. wax
        wax 24 August 2013 12: 51
        +7
        In addition, the Gulag had a production plan and, I think, those who decided to reduce the number of working hands and the flooding of the barge would have got into the Gulag.
        On August 3, 1933, a decree of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR approved the Correctional Labor Code of the RSFSR prescribing various aspects of the functioning of ITL. In particular, the code prescribes the use of prisoner labor [~ 1] and legalizes the practice of setting off two days of shock work for three days [~ 2], which was widely used to motivate prisoners during the construction of the White Sea Canal ...

        ... with the outbreak of the war, almost all the resources and the work force of the Gulag were devoted to the production and maintenance of military needs - metallurgy (steel for technology). With the end of the war, when the country was already in greater need of reconstruction, the main GULAG facilities were deployed around logging (e.g. sleepers), mining of precious metals, development of hydraulic structures (e.g. river diversion, production of canals), etc.

        The source of the quote is Wikipedia.
      2. mole
        mole 24 August 2013 19: 51
        +6
        For comparison, about the Amer camps:
        In the "Eisenhower death camps": The story of the American guard (excerpt)

        http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/us_war_crimes/Eisenhowers_dea
        th_camps.htm

        In late March - early April, 1945 sent me to guard a prisoner of war camp near Andernach on the Rhine. I had four German courses and could talk to prisoners, although it was forbidden. But over time, I became a translator and was assigned to identify members of the SS. (I have not identified any).

        In Andernach, around 50 000 prisoners were kept in an open field, surrounded by barbed wire. The women were kept in a separate pen. The prisoners had no shelters, no blankets, many did not have a coat. They slept in the mud, in the rain and in the cold, among incredibly long ditches for excrement. The spring was cold and windy, and the weather was terrible.

        It was even more terrible to watch prisoners cooked in cans a semblance of liquid grass and weed soup. Very soon the prisoners were exhausted. Dysentery raged, and very soon they slept in their own excrement, too weak and crowded to get to the trench toilets.
        Many begged for food, weakened and died before our eyes. We had plenty of food and other food, but we could not help them, including medical care.

        Enraged, I protested to my officers, but was received with hostility or mild indifference. Under pressure, they replied that they were following the strictest instructions "from the very top".
        Turning to the kitchen, I heard that the kitchen master is strictly forbidden to share provisions with the prisoners, but more than ever, they don’t know what to do with it. I promised to allocate a little.

        When I threw food to the prisoners over the barbed wire, I was caught by the guards. I repeated the "offense" and the officer viciously threatened to shoot me. I thought it was a bluff, until I saw on the hill near the camp of an officer who was shooting a group of German civil women with an 45 caliber pistol.
        He answered my question: “Target shooting” and continued firing to the last cartridge in the store. I saw how the women fled to the shelter, but because of the distance I could not determine whether the officer had wounded anyone.

        Then I realized that I was dealing with cold-blooded killers, full of moral hatred. They considered the Germans subhuman, worthy of destruction: another round of the downward spiral of racism. The entire press of the end of the war was full of photographs of German concentration camps with depleted prisoners. This increased our self-assured cruelty and made it easier for us to behave in the way we were sent to fight ...
    4. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 24 August 2013 13: 23
      13
      ..... and in our Tuim failure, Vanka Solovyov’s treasure lies, but the one whom Gaidar drove along the foothills of Sayan, it was true, my grandmother told me, she was little then, but the elders told her that the villagers who had escaped from the gang told about it, and that’s the personal chef of the chieftain ...... so that you can definitely believe my story, we urgently collect an expedition for a free little coin ......
    5. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 25 August 2013 15: 56
      +4
      Quote: Siberian
      Well, they talked with the locals. They talked about the flooded barge with people. People are not young, but they could not see it. They know from their parents. It wasn’t 1000 years ago when legends and fairy tales compose. Naturally, there are zero documents for such matters.


      No witnesses, no evidence, no documents.
      But in tyrnet they know about it! good and operate with these "stories" as facts.
      Keep it up! good
      1. poquello
        poquello 25 August 2013 19: 36
        +1
        Quote: Karlsonn
        Quote: Siberian
        Well, they talked with the locals. They talked about the flooded barge with people. People are not young, but they could not see it. They know from their parents. It wasn’t 1000 years ago when legends and fairy tales compose. Naturally, there are zero documents for such matters.


        No witnesses, no evidence, no documents.
        But in tyrnet they know about it! good and operate with these "stories" as facts.
        Keep it up! good

        What do you think, whom should I believe? To you, for example, or to your father? He said that a neighbor told about Stalin, anek told Duc, they arrived and put a neighbor. Kicking a man for telling a legend about a barge IMHO is not good, people will figure out to believe or not. I was in the village, where people are seriously discussing the appearance of chupocabra in the middle lane.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 26 August 2013 12: 10
          +1
          Quote: poquello
          from What do you think, whom should I believe? To you, for example, or to your father?


          I can’t be trusted at all!
          I come from a family of communists, not only Chekists.

          Quote: poquello
          He said that a neighbor told about Stalin, anek told Duc, they arrived and put a neighbor.


          In Kolyma, I just didn’t meet anyone who I’ve not seen, set aside for a joke request

          Quote: poquello
          nat person for the story of the legend about the barge IMHO is not good, people will figure out to believe or not.


          The earth is flat! Elephants, whales and a turtle! Who will prove the opposite?
          1. poquello
            poquello 26 August 2013 23: 03
            +1
            Quote: Karlsonn

            I can’t be trusted at all!
            I come from a family of communists, not only Chekists.

            Quote: poquello
            He said that a neighbor told about Stalin, anek told Duc, they arrived and put a neighbor.


            In Kolyma, I just didn’t meet anyone who I’ve not seen, set aside for a joke request


            Not surprisingly, for your age there were not sent checks for the resale.
  • Glory333
    Glory333 24 August 2013 10: 33
    13
    As for the concentration camps for the Japanese in the USA and Canada, according to the Americans themselves: According to the report of the Military Directorate for Displacement from 1943, the internees were placed in "simple-structured barracks, covered with roofing, without sewers and kitchens."
    For example, the Hart Mountain Center for Displaced Persons in northwestern Wyoming was a camp surrounded by barbed wire, with a shared toilet, beds instead of beds and a budget of 45 cents per person per day. Since most of the internees were evicted from their homes on the west coast without prior notice and were not informed of the final destination, many did not take on clothing suitable for Wyoming winters, when temperatures often dropped below −20 degrees Celsius.
    All camps were located in remote, deserted territories far from settlements and were controlled by armed guards. Internees were usually allowed to stay with their families and were treated well until they broke the rules. There is documentary evidence that the guards fired at internees who tried to go beyond the fence.

    An important question is ignored - what kind of heating was in the concentration camps? Most likely no.
    I saw 2 American feature films, in which American concentration camps are shown as paradise on earth - where all the Japanese are smiling, dancing to the gramophone, tables are full of food - is it necessary to say that the reality was exactly the opposite. It is interesting how many Japanese people died in the concentration camps from starvation, cold and disease - on Wikipedia there is generally no death toll.
    The author writes that the Americans treated the Japanese better than the Germans did with the Jews - I will ask a simple question - What would the Japanese do if Japanese aircraft began to wipe American cities off the face of the earth and the Japanese army landed in Mexico, for example, and launched an offensive deep into the United States?
  • 31231
    31231 24 August 2013 11: 18
    11
    The article is needed not only on military-patriotic sites, but also in current history textbooks.
  • Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 24 August 2013 11: 32
    -11 qualifying.
    I remember the story of one employee. His relative was in Buchenwald, and then in Solovki. In Buchenwald, according to her stories, those who worked were given replaceable clothes every 10 days, they were fed reasonably. After her release, she returned home, from where she was taken to Solovki in one nightgown, and she spent the next 10 years in it. Why am I writing this - I think in any country there are people and nonhumans. Whoever you get will succeed. Do you think something has changed today?
    1. wax
      wax 24 August 2013 12: 44
      16
      she was taken to Solovki in one nightdress, and she spent the next 10 years in it

      But do not tell me how many years the prisoners of Buchenwald lived before they were burned in Buchenwald furnaces?
      And further. Do you happen to know what kind of "work" a relative of "one employee" did, that she was changed clothes in Buchenwald every 10 days?
      1. Asan Ata
        Asan Ata 24 August 2013 20: 32
        -4
        For what I bought, for that I sold it. She was definitely not an accomplice, so they would have shot her. And what in Solovki put up for midge also did not hear?
        1. smile
          smile 24 August 2013 23: 55
          +7
          Asan Ata

          Just the fact of working as a warden and cooperation with the administration - namely, cooperation was the work of the camp "capo" (ask what this term means - the capo did not lose the status of a prisoner) was not the basis for the death penalty - only in the case of proven participation in executions, the same most concerned various nationalists and policemen of all stripes ... that is why there are so many Bandera and Baltic Nazis left ... no one shot them ... all the more, take an interest. when the death penalty was abolished in the USSR, you will obviously be surprised ... in May 1947, in the USSR, Evil STALIN ABOLISHED THE DEATH PENALTY ........ :)))
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 25 August 2013 14: 49
            +1
            About Vlasovites from the Internet.

            "Goy Ivan Fedorovich (Teodorovich), born in 1919, native of the Lublin Voivodeship (Poland), Ukrainian, middle peasant, education of four classes. Was convicted in March 1945 by the Military Tribunal of the Lvov Military District for the fact that“ (...) June 1944, being in a self-defense group, together with other self-defenders, took part in the shelling of the Polish population in the village of Shevina. In the same month he voluntarily joined the counter-revolutionary gang “OUN” was appointed commandant of the militant. While in the gang, he appropriated the nickname “ Vyschy "was armed with a machine gun and cartridges, led the security of the district leadership" OUN "for which he equipped shelters."

            Goy was convicted under Art. 54–1a of the Criminal Code of the Ukrainian SSR to 15 years of hard labor with a loss of rights for 5 years, without confiscation of property
            (for the lack thereof).

            The production and household characteristic for the KTR s / c s / n No. 3 G – 431:
            “He worked as a daily in the Tonkonogov’s brigade, treated his work conscientiously and accurately, enjoyed authority not only in his brigade, but also among the s / c s / c s / c, a good organizer of production, lively among the s / c s / c, violations of the camp I didn’t have discipline. ”
            http://wiki.istmat.info/%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%84:%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B4%
            D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%BF
            %D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%87%D1%91%D0%B2%D0%B0
        2. wax
          wax 25 August 2013 15: 38
          +4
          The most famous “leather workshop” was located in the Buchenwald concentration camp, and it was managed by Ilse Koch, the wife of the commandant of this branch of hell on earth.

          She was nicknamed "Madame Lampshade." She used the dressed skin of the murdered men to create a variety of household utensils. Ilse especially liked lampshades.
    2. avt
      avt 24 August 2013 13: 03
      21
      Quote: Asan Ata
      In Buchenwald, according to her stories, those who worked were given replaceable clothes once every 10 days and fed reasonably well. After her release, she returned home, from where she was taken to Solovki in one nightgown, and she spent the next 10 years in it.

      And in German concentration camps, prisoners were given good, natural coffee. What Yushchenko told, who spoke about the father of which the Germans taught in Auschwitz to good coffee. Buchenwald, like Mauthausen and a number of other camps, were generally just a death factory, people didn’t stay there for a long time, it’s not for nothing that they slaughtered her in vain, I wonder what article, probably as an accomplice.
      1. smile
        smile 24 August 2013 19: 15
        +6
        avt
        Oh, I actually duplicated your comment ... I was simply enraged by the statement of a friend of a friend of a relative of the Nazi warden Buchenwald and didn’t read how they put him in his place ... I’m sorry ... I’m not a plagiarist, I just have an assessment similar to yours .... :))))
      2. mole
        mole 24 August 2013 19: 54
        +2
        And also cook dumplings with borsch and compote negative
    3. Proud.
      Proud. 24 August 2013 14: 13
      14
      Quote: Asan Ata
      I remember the story of one employee.

      Key phrase. From it you can develop ANY "reality". An employee could or may not exist, as well as his relative. His relative could tell the truth, or she could lie. Or tell not everything. For example, that she "worked" "Kapo", with a baton in his hands, in the women's barrack. And then, after checking, it turned out. And they humanely (without irony) slapped a ten, and did not hang her.
      1. rereture
        rereture 24 August 2013 19: 19
        11
        Here was Madame Antonina Makarova-Ginzburg, or, as she is called Tonka the Machine Gunner, also worked for the benefit of the Reich, even received 30 marks, and was treated for siphon in Germany ... But alas, they did not understand her in the USSR, and the bloody regime shot her .

        But she was called a machine gunner not for nothing, she shot more than 1500 people. For executions I used the Maxim machine gun, issued by to her in police at her request.
      2. mole
        mole 24 August 2013 19: 57
        +3
        That's the difference in mentality. We have a lot of pity and honesty.
      3. Asan Ata
        Asan Ata 24 August 2013 20: 48
        -3
        I gave a story about a person, told about which a person I respect. I didn't catch him on lies. There were a lot of details, now, after 30 years, I can hardly remember. But in general, to whitewash our camps is to pave a direct path to future camps. I remember in "Ogonyok" I read a story from the life of our beloved film actor Georgy Zhzhenov "Sleigh" (Sled. Stories and a tale. - M., Vagant, 1997). Look at it on Wikipedia. It is impossible to blame him for excellence, an honest man. Read about his life, be horrified, and then remove your minuses.hi
    4. smile
      smile 24 August 2013 19: 11
      +7
      Asan Ata
      What are you carrying, excuse me, Buchenwald extermination camp, what change of clothes? !!!!! The story is true only in one case - if she "worked" as a capo-overseer, who were chosen among the prisoners ... As I understand it, the NKVD got to the bottom of that. that she collaborated with the Nazis and appreciated her deserts ..... :))) here is the former supervisor and retained grateful memories of her employers in Buchenwald ..... a nightmare !!! Aren't you ashamed to say that?
      1. Asan Ata
        Asan Ata 24 August 2013 20: 49
        -2
        See comments above.
        1. smile
          smile 24 August 2013 21: 46
          +6
          Asan Ata
          And no one whitewashes the camp. The author is for objectivity when covering the issue.
          Or, in your opinion, you cannot know and speak the truth. But do we really need to see the gloomy pages of our history completely and sit in the middle of a fictional pile of poop, sobbing bitterly that everything is always worse for us than for others? Well, black your story, why climb into ours? That is why you use only black paint only when it is necessary to describe our history and it is Russians? Believe me, this is very striking ... and we can’t like it and it prevents us from perceiving you as impartial .... these are the things ... and in general, I don’t want to argue with you, we’re still arguing ....
        2. 31231
          31231 25 August 2013 07: 34
          +6
          See Google. Solovetsky camps closed in the year 39. Since the age of 36, he has practically no new prisoners. When did this lady manage to go crazy before Solovki ?!
      2. 31231
        31231 25 August 2013 07: 26
        +1
        Here is a vet, another "truth-bearer". At least I would have bothered to look at the time of Solovki's existence. They were closed in 39.
    5. 31231
      31231 25 August 2013 07: 20
      +1
      Maybe you already google when Solovki closed ?! Or one more well-read fairy tales of Solzhenitsyn ?!
    6. Andrey Skokovsky
      Andrey Skokovsky 25 August 2013 11: 17
      +3
      Quote: Asan Ata
      I remember the story of one employee. His relative was in Buchenwald, and then in Solovki. In Buchenwald, according to her stories, those who worked were given replaceable clothes every 10 days, they were fed reasonably. After her release, she returned home, from where she was taken to Solovki in one nightgown, and she spent the next 10 years in it. Why am I writing this - I think in any country there are people and nonhumans. Whoever you get will succeed. Do you think something has changed today?


      here for her tolerable life in Buchenwald, with removable underwear every 10 days, she then worked for 10 years with us, fairly and clearly, if of course it is generally true, other stories are better known about Buchenwald.
  • wulf66
    wulf66 24 August 2013 11: 39
    10
    What is HISTORY:
    Of the thousands of known facts, testimonies and documents for publication, only those that confirm established hypotheses are selected, and all the rest either lie under the cloth or disavow before the entire scientific world. The story is created with the help of assumptions and is adapted to the framework of axioms approved by the scientific communities. She begins her own life at the moment the event ends, and consists of subjective evidence, false interpretations and interpretations. The chapter inscribed in the annals of history has nothing to do with reality, and is written in such a way as to present in a favorable light those who at that moment “pay for music.” The history is written by the winners. And woe to the vanquished.
    1. sleepy
      sleepy 25 August 2013 14: 58
      +2
      Patriotism is not enough when writing the History of Russia.

      "... I recently spoke with an American on the Internet.
      Real, inveterate. A patriot to the marrow of bones.
      And he gave me a terrible American secret.
      And do you know what it is?
      Russia will never be happy
      unless, of course, he adopts the American slogan:
      "Perhaps my country is wrong, but this is MY country.
      We can talk about everything, but no one gave us the right
      shit in your own house ... "

      http://topwar.ru/29548-kak-my-stali-zleyshimi-vragami-rodiny.html
  • High speed
    High speed 24 August 2013 11: 42
    +8
    And I still like fashionable greeting cards in the United States 60 years ago, topic: hanged Negro ...
  • sashka
    sashka 24 August 2013 12: 18
    -1
    I don’t understand. And on the second reading. They want to convince us that the camp is necessary? What is more necessary? We will wait for the end of the next quirk of the "prime minister?" With the commander-in-chief. Especially the drain "of migrants in line. There is nothing to say about the "swamp". The rod itself is a crowd ... Life is beautiful in its novelty.
  • Alexeymiller
    Alexeymiller 24 August 2013 13: 01
    14
    My great-great-grandfather spent 3 years in the camps for religious agitation and dependency. But when he returned, he stopped suffering garbage and began to work.
    1. Siberian
      Siberian 24 August 2013 13: 11
      -6
      And who worked?
      1. sashka
        sashka 24 August 2013 14: 43
        +8
        I don’t know where the photo is now. But a man in a leather jacket with a "Mauser" My Grandfather .. He just "built" Kazakhstan. He lifted it off his knees .. But now it’s not Pavlodar (which is wine), but Astana .. The Kazakhs have never been builders. Fig ..
        1. Asan Ata
          Asan Ata 24 August 2013 21: 01
          -2
          Pavlodar Pavlodar and stayed. Astana is earlier Akmola, before this Tselinograd, even earlier the area was called Akmol (Rich in dairy products). The Kazakhs, or rather their ancestors, built a bunch of cities when the Russians were still hiding in the forests. Taraz, Otrar, Sarai, Almaty (I did not believe in the antiquity of Alma-Ata, but I found very old coins at the excavations, it was written on them - Almaty, or Almaly, I don’t remember exactly, this is actually the same thing), and also a crowd of cities . The builders of Saray, after the invasion of Timur, built Samarkand, and then all the Mughal cities in India, Tehran. Then Astrakhan was built from the bricks of Saray. Today they are building Astana, look at the sites, cool.
          1. Proud.
            Proud. 24 August 2013 21: 26
            +5
            Quote: Asan Ata
            Kazakhs, or rather their ancestors, built a bunch of cities

            Respect to the ancient ancestors of the Kazakhs.
            Quote: Asan Ata
            when the Russians were still hiding in the woods

            But why write this? Like, know your place? Or is it a new unit of historical time counting? Well then, "cool." "When was that?" - "For a long time, the Russians were hiding in the forests then!". "And this is when? "-" For a long time, they were sitting in the trees then! "In fact, not cool, and not funny.
            1. Asan Ata
              Asan Ata 25 August 2013 11: 34
              0
              Sorry, just a reaction to Sashkin's attack.
          2. smile
            smile 24 August 2013 21: 38
            +8
            Asan Ata
            Kaneshno-kaneshnya, Russians were hiding in the forests while the Kazakhs built skyscrapers. That is why the Vikings comrades called the territory that we occupied, the guardian .... :)))) And the question is, then why did you degrade like that and run wild when we came to the territory on which various tribes wandered and scattered small principalities existed. ... we ran around the steppe, speaking your language:))) ...- well, there weren’t any trees, otherwise I would obviously have made nests ... :)))))

            Tell me, are you pleased when you are also rude in response to your rudeness? So why start? Or will you start yelling again that I'm a chauvinist?
          3. AlNikolaich
            AlNikolaich 24 August 2013 22: 30
            +9
            Quote: Asan Ata
            The Kazakhs, or rather their ancestors, built a bunch of cities when the Russians were still hiding in the forests.

            I like this topic, already horror! We heard about the great Persian Ukrainians. Now the championship of Kazakhstan has begun! I got this nationalistic nonsense!
            My friend, Besinbai, once, drunk, proved to one Hungarian that the Hungarians came from the Kazakhs. After a liter, I proved ... What is this about? Yes, by the way I had to ...
            1. Asan Ata
              Asan Ata 25 August 2013 11: 26
              -2
              Historic clothing store in Hungary. The fact that the Hungarians are related to the Kazakhs is not fiction. The famous Hungarian anthropologist Andres Biro told me about this. Hungarians preserved Tengrianism, the religion of the steppes, as a culture. Visit the Hungarian holiday Karachun on December 21. A sensation that fell into the historical steppe. Outfits, shamans, chants. They really came from the steppe and preserved their culture.
              1. mole
                mole 25 August 2013 12: 53
                +5
                Of course! Bulgarians also descended from the Bulgars! (Bulgars are in Tatarstan, of course, the Russian Federation). They also went a long way to places where no one touched them and created their own state. And in general, if you look under the magnifying glass and draw by the ears, of course you can find a lot. For example: they both use iPhones, live under the same sky, etc. Identity is not fiction. Refute!
                1. Asan Ata
                  Asan Ata 25 August 2013 23: 41
                  0
                  The Bulgarians brought to the Black Sea Khan Asparuh. Unlike the Hungarians, the Bulgarians mixed with the Slavs. Bulgarians are historically Turks, not Slavs. Brothers Slavs began to call them Russian-Turkish.
              2. svp67
                svp67 25 August 2013 19: 26
                +1
                Quote: Asan Ata
                The fact that the Hungarians are related to the Kazakhs is not fiction
                Check out the "History of the Hun Empire" by Gumelev, it also tells about it ...
                1. Asan Ata
                  Asan Ata 25 August 2013 23: 45
                  -1
                  Gumilyov did not read this book, but he listened to it a lot on the radio, far after midnight in his student years. Be sure to read, thanks.
        2. 31231
          31231 25 August 2013 07: 43
          +2
          Alas, I am saddened. I am working now on construction and I meet a lot of Kazakhs. Ordinary workers are intelligent people.
          Moreover, last year I worked with the Czechs on Urengoy, the same hard workers. Not dumber, not smarter.
          1. mole
            mole 25 August 2013 12: 55
            +4
            If I am not mistaken, the words of Nazarbayev: "They drove out the Russians! And who will work!" (the quotation is extremely literal, but left the meaning). One Kazakh told.
            1. 31231
              31231 25 August 2013 17: 19
              +3
              You know, in 2005 I had a chance to work in the Karaganda region. Another pipe. Yes, the level of education and the desire to work is lower than ours, but to say that the Kazakh drones is stupid.
              And from history it is worth recalling the feat of the Panfilov division.
    2. sashka
      sashka 24 August 2013 13: 28
      0
      Quote: AlexeyMiller
      My great-great-grandfather spent 3 years in the camps for religious agitation and dependency.

      I was born in Kazakhstan for a joke that my grandfather told on a collective farm near Orenburg about a Kovsomol activist ..
      Now it is considered that I am not a Russian and even less a "Russian"?
      Cool, right?
  • goldfinger
    goldfinger 24 August 2013 13: 19
    +4
    History teaches only that it teaches nothing and nobody. Moreover, especially and to know that, nobody wants anything. What for? The less you know the better you sleep. Till. And to restore the camps is easy! That we can!
  • Oldish
    Oldish 24 August 2013 13: 26
    17
    I liked the article. By the way, it does not say that the GULAG is good, but the concentration camp is bad. At least I have not read this. But these organizations cannot be equated. They are built on different principles. And about this the article says quite intelligibly. Thanks to the author.
    1. sashka
      sashka 24 August 2013 13: 40
      +3
      Quote: Oldish
      I liked the article. By the way, it does not say that the GULAG is good, but the concentration camp is bad. At least I have not read this. But these organizations cannot be equated. They are built on different principles. And about this the article says quite intelligibly. Thanks to the author.

      The principle is always the same for everyone .. to be afraid of the "too" smart .. so that they do not look like they are .. (the grandson suggested))))
  • sashka
    sashka 24 August 2013 13: 32
    -15 qualifying.
    Historical educational program. How does the gulag differ from the concentration camps of the West
    Really WHAT? I did not see the answer. Just a stupid set of words ..
    1. Raiven
      Raiven 25 August 2013 21: 04
      -1
      First title laughing joke

      In conc. the camp exiled everyone who did not please the new Reich government: Jews, Communists, dovecote, etc.
      The gulag exiled criminals, criminals and watered. prisoners, and there were innocent people who, by the denunciation of envious persons, were put there

      In the Gulag, people were not killed like cattle by the thousands.
  • sashka
    sashka 24 August 2013 13: 48
    -8
    Calmly, without tension, he built 72 (seventy-two) cars in
    Year .. Now one button has been replaced by a "lightning" Event of a World scale .. The announcers just do not end with chants in Glory to the Great and Omnipresent ..
  • Siberian
    Siberian 24 August 2013 14: 26
    -11 qualifying.
    Quote: Sasha
    Historical educational program. How does the gulag differ from the concentration camps of the West
    Really WHAT? I did not see the answer. Just a stupid set of words ..

    Yes, nothing. What is there is here. Slave power and experimentation on people. And then, whoever has survived, rejoice.
    1. mole
      mole 24 August 2013 20: 06
      +4
      Yes, nothing. What is there is here. Slave power and experimentation on people. And then, whoever has survived, rejoice.

      Siberian, and now you don’t feel yourself as an experimental? Are you confident in a bright free future?
  • Siberian
    Siberian 24 August 2013 14: 49
    -1
    Quote: Sasha
    Quote: AlexeyMiller
    My great-great-grandfather spent 3 years in the camps for religious agitation and dependency.

    I was born in Kazakhstan for a joke that my grandfather told on a collective farm near Orenburg about a Kovsomol activist ..
    Now it is considered that I am not a Russian and even less a "Russian"?
    Cool, right?
    SOMETHING Familiar with my great-grandfather. (Something similar) Only with Nicholas II. NOT for an anecdote, but, in Siberia, my ancestors were. fellow
  • Alfonso
    Alfonso 24 August 2013 15: 37
    0
    Quote: AlexeyMiller
    My great-great-grandfather spent 3 years in the camps for religious agitation and dependency. But when he returned, he stopped suffering garbage and began to work.

    He changed his mind in time.
  • grafrozow
    grafrozow 24 August 2013 16: 19
    -5
    Tell me how to take off several photos at once, I only get one at a time. Photos are fresh, 501 construction, two weeks ago, there is a video. But, there is no trace at all, the video is the same only from another camp, here they are every 20-40km. stand until no comment.
    1. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 24 August 2013 17: 23
      +6
      ...... this is where you found the camp after 20-40 km interesting ???? the only place where I saw many camps is in the Turukhansk "region", but even there the distance between the camps is not less than 200 km, otherwise it makes no sense, otherwise in the event of mass riots the convicts can unite and with great success resist the "forces of pacification", and survive when escaping in a crowd it is easier, because the camps in the taiga were always separated by long distances, since the open spaces allowed. About stoves, but no, because in "our" barracks "stoves" were always used for heating and not brick stoves, when closing and preserving camps, everything that could still be useful was taken out, and the stoves could be taken out or taken away by locals. And I have a dime a dozen of such photos, we have to hell with them in the north of the Yenisei, they should be re-tightened, the premises should be repaired and the people will be driven again for the "good of the Fatherland", even tomorrow .......
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 24 August 2013 19: 40
        -1
        Quote: Rosomaha67
        . this is where you camps after 20-40 km found interesting ???? the only place where I saw many camps is in the Turukhansk "region", but even there the distance between the camps is not less than 200 km, otherwise it makes no sense, otherwise in the event of mass riots the convicts can unite and with great success resist the "forces of pacification", and survive when escaping in a crowd it is easier, because the camps in the taiga were always separated by long distances, since the open spaces allowed
        Smart, you are ours, no need to poke, the camps about which I am talking are located along the 501 construction site, the Salekhard-Igarka railway, how do you imagine the daily delivery of the ZK to the place of work for 100 km? the remains of 10 camps, one of which was for women. Both former prisoners and the guards of those camps are still alive, and no matter what historians from Moscow write, I see these camps every day with my own eyes. By the way, the author is Boris Yulin, a historian and for some reason a military expert , still denies the executions carried out by the NKVD in the city of Samara, despite the fact that 4 graves were found, in which the remains of about 9 people were found. True historian, no words. Burzhuiks remained in the barracks, but they were not in Shizo at all, and this is in frosts down to -3600 degrees. Tell your "fairy tales" to the author of the article. They were not afraid of escapes, you can't run far along the tundra, besides, the Khanty and Nenets were rewarded with food and money for each killed convict. This is our story, like it is you or not, your business, but it was.
        1. Rosomaha67
          Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 11: 25
          +4
          ...... for the fact that I apologize to you, our intelligent, about the camps on the railway Salekhard-Igarka I heard and saw, we wandered there. So they are scattered there along the entire route, built at the place of work, then when the site was ready to close and people were transferred to the next section, this is not a bit what I meant by the camp, then all the construction sites of the builders on the power transmission line or gas pipeline call abandoned villages and shout about how many villages we have got bigger ..... You are right about the shoots, although the Solekhard-Igarka route doesn't go everywhere along the tundra, for example, I climbed more through the forest and forest-tundra, and in the tundra even the Khanty and Nenets were not needed, in 1952 it seems that there was a riot and a mass escape in the 19th zone of Norillag, I don’t remember the numbers but about 1000-1500 people, they just received the bulk of them from the air, they used attack aircraft Il -2, then the residues were captured by mobile groups and yes, with the help of the local population. You can’t go far in the tundra, but you can in the forest, because camps in the forest are located far from settlements, otherwise it will be necessary to guard and barrage more. And so he blocked the river and where did his darling get away, runs a week through the woods, or he lifts the beast, or he runs up and knocks on the gates, and there have been such cases. And the security did not immediately start up .........
          ... yes, there were no bourgeois in the punishment cell, well then you, too, tell fairy tales in your previous post, you and the barracks indicated "you are our truthful", or are we correct the truth as other eyewitnesses appear ????
          .... about 3600 five I repeat, it is quite possible, only please then a link to documents, acts of opening burials, forensic medical examination reports, final decisions of the commissions that recorded the detection of this barbaric crime! otherwise I’ll also go to you now and find a burial place for the victims of the barbaric crime of Genghis Khan under the Black Hill (good not far), who they say was also visiting us. I don’t argue, maybe there were your Samara mass executions, but where are the facts, facts ???? And in general, there is no question of your dispute with Yulin, but that the GULAG is not a concentration camp ..... by the way, about the living sitters. I’m not sure if only those who fell under the very closure, but the guards, yes, are alive, I confirm ....
          1. grafrozow
            grafrozow 25 August 2013 13: 49
            -2
            Quote: Rosomaha67
            then all the parking lots of the builders along the power transmission line or the gas pipeline should be called abandoned villages and shouting about how many villages we have got bigger ...
            Dear, it is not interesting to communicate with you, you are discussing things about which you "heard and wandered", you can still get there only by helicopter hi
            Well, or a flight of violent imagination. The settlements of the builders of power lines and gas pipelines are called wagon-towns, they move as the construction progresses, there are no abandoned settlements at all, The so-called "abandoned villages" are the remains of the bases of bankrupt enterprises in 1995-2002. YamalGazPromStroy, SeverTruboprovodStroy, UkrTyumenDorStroy ... never when they were not villages.
            Quote: Rosomaha67
            and in the tundra even Khanty and Nenets were not needed,
            But they shot runaway prisoners, there were cases when they were confused with geologists and this is not my invention.

            Quote: Rosomaha67
            .pro 3600 five I repeat, it is quite possible, only please then a link to documents, acts of opening burial places, protocol of forensic medical examination
            Can you tell the autobiography of the participants? Go to the site of Samara, a city park, in my name Gagarin, there are answers to all questions.
            Quote: Rosomaha67
            And in general, we are not talking about your dispute with Yulin, but that the GULAG is not a concentration camp.
            What’s the difference? Some were burnt in crematoriums, while others were buried like garbage, in a bolt and common pits. We examined 12 camps and didn’t even find traces of the cemetery, but they worked for 12 hours for a bowl of baland, I’ll try the video throw off.
            Quote: Rosomaha67
            by the way about the sitters alive. not sure,
            Marmonov Ivan Dmitrievich, wrote the books "The North were" and "The Country of the Wooden Sun", the stories "Three Days Before Freedom", last year he moved from Nadym to Yekaterinburg. I can't throw off the video, then there is still a photo.
            1. Rosomaha67
              Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 14: 42
              +3
              You are our omnipresent, if you are not interested in communicating, what are you writing then? "I heard" - well, because I did not pass the entire Salekhard-Igarka highway, that is, we passed km 150 which pass through the Krasnoyarsk Territory, about the rest of the km. I judged this route by the stories of the guide of a local resident who passed this route from and to, because I heard!
              .... wandered - well, if you don’t like it, I went in, went through, somewhere even crawled. because very tired in places, well, in general, everything is said above ......
              .... we flew to work camps scattered along the Yenisei, and at the same time studied the history of our native office, so to speak, the pages of its glorious past, in reality ... what about with the comments of former workers ...
              .... well, in 30-40 no one knew about any carriage towns, so the same builders built temporary settlements that they later left, your carriage - towns, this is already the era of 60-70 years, and the Gulag time has long sunk into oblivion ......
              .... by the way, I’ll tell you such a secret, you can only fly over the taiga expensively and don’t sit everywhere, therefore we usually take a boat along the river, to the place closest to the desired point, and from there on foot, if the people are richer or with connections then on the GTSka, but the locals will object, it spoils the taiga and scares the beast. so on foot ..... besides the distances are not that big ..... but for the helicopter, sorry, there was no money ......
              ... by the way, I know people who walked the track completely in the summer on mountain bicycles, I don’t know what they drove more or dragged them on themselves but they did it for sure (pancake rotated mantenbikers), so not a single helicopter ......
              ... and why am I telling such simple truths to a real resident of Yakutia, who himself and the taiga are found in bulk and more than a kilometer across ??????????
              ... I’ll visit the site of Samara, ATP for the invitation!
              .... well, you didn't find a cemetery, but I saw when I "wandered", though there are almost no signs left, only pegs ...
              ... and if you didn’t find it, maybe it was there where you were looking and it wasn’t, but if the pits are common, then the tracks should remain, because you have permafrost there, really ???? .... and you just can’t dig a hole. ...... I was staying like that in the village of Vorontsov (250 km from Dikson), and there happened to be a Russian alone dying there. so at almost 15 we dug a grave for him, and we really need to say we’re tired, well, so I imagine digging a hole in permafrost under a common grave. Traces obviously should have remained ......

              ...... I did not deny the possibility of being in the living sidelings, I expressed my uncertainty about this
              1. grafrozow
                grafrozow 25 August 2013 19: 04
                0
                So they sailed ...
                Quote: Rosomaha67
                .... we flew to work camps scattered along the Yenisei, and at the same time studied the history of our home office, so to speak, the pages of its glorious past, in reality ...... with the comments of former workers .....
                With a heroic office, I'm not on my way, especially with such educated "workers." in the hills, sand and clay, which were used for the construction of the 7st construction site, dug holes with dynamite, in 501. in the spring, when the ice drifted along the Pravaya Hitta River, human bones swam, the water washed away the shore, and so we found a cemetery. By the way, your colleagues in Moscow are working well, today they stopped an unauthorized rally in memory of 2004, and detained as many as 1968 people, why do people need a real history, there is a short course on the history of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, only the time is ALREADY DIFFERENT ...
                1. Rosomaha67
                  Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 19: 21
                  +3
                  ..... you were mistaken, our astute, I did not work in the police, but in the Social Rehabilitation and Correctional Services of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, in the DOS, so my colleagues never detain anyone for unauthorized rallies .....
                  ..... about the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug, I apologize, why did Yakutia come to my mind, I see it is closer to me than Yamal, I’m not going to argue, but you don’t know about the LTP, don’t say, I know personally 2 people, who were "cured" there, but stopped drinking drunkenly, and this is already an achievement, moreover, now we have a big problem with drunken husbands and neighbors, and earlier they could be handed over to the LTP, but now either endure or kill and sit in ITU, so there were some positives. of course, everyone will remain with his own, I agree and is glad that the power is still more ours than "yours", and I hope that it will not return to you, the 90s was enough for me ...
                  1. grafrozow
                    grafrozow 26 August 2013 08: 30
                    -1
                    Quote: Rosomaha67
                    , but you don’t know about LTP, don’t talk about it, I personally know 2 people who "recovered" there, but stopped drinking drunkenly, and this is already an achievement, besides now we have a big problem with drunken husbands and neighbors
                    And I know 20 people who, after LTP, like after continuing education, began to drink everything in a row. Yes, there is still a problem with drunken wives.
                2. 31231
                  31231 25 August 2013 20: 02
                  +2
                  Have you seen a lot of tundra ?! In Yamal, in addition to Yamal and the Gydan Peninsula, mainly lens. Yamal, Taimyr, Northern Yakutia, Chukotka are continuous, only under year-round rivers, reservoirs and some talik swamps.
                  Further, the ditch is not poured from clay. The bottom part is poured with sand, or the substitution of peat at the base. The top is always and everywhere - rock.
                  Dynamite as an explosive has not been used since the revolution; for these purposes there was TNT and ammonium nitrate.
                  Wells or holes were drilled and explosives were laid.
            2. 31231
              31231 25 August 2013 16: 22
              0
              What are you talking about ?! What kind of cars were there in those days ?! All temporary townships were built from the forest. Now a road is being built from Nadym to Salekhard in the same corridor. I don’t know how it is with funding now, but three years ago, work was underway to build a railway according to the old "Stalinist" bookmark. All the camps that you brought, temporary, with the movement of the front of work went forward.
              1. grafrozow
                grafrozow 25 August 2013 19: 20
                +1
                Quote: 31231
                What are you talking about ?! What cars in those days ?! All temporary towns from the forest were built
                What are you talking about, name at least one village between Nadym and Aksarka, Poluy is not a village, but the former ANG industrial base and more, except for the old camps over 300 km. or whatever. The highway is under construction, 110 km were dumped from Nadym, they must be passed in 2015. And no one has yet restored the train, neither 3 years ago, nor now, there are only intentions. He was there 2 weeks ago, here is another photo.
                1. Rosomaha67
                  Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 19: 53
                  +1
                  .... so where are the cars in the photo, right now I’ll put on my glasses and wipe the lenses, as you advised one here, maybe then I’ll see ......
                  ... you and I and comrade 31231 are writing in chorus that the camps are temporary, that it’s not villages, but you are talking about some villages, then please take a picture of your wagon-towns, and certainly 30-50 so that to confirm the truth. ...
                  ...... about the fact that the Nazi concentration camps and the GULAG are the same, you have to go to Germany, there you will even be given a grand for proving that Hitler was not a monster and not a criminal, that Stalin and the USSR are worse, how you poor live in such a totalitarian country, you urgently need to go to the West, breathe the "air of freedom" and tell the Europeans about the persecution that "the most truthful historians" are subjected to in the country !!!!!
                  1. grafrozow
                    grafrozow 25 August 2013 23: 16
                    +1
                    Quote: Rosomaha67
                    ...... about the fact that the Nazi concentration camps and the Gulag are the same thing, you need to go to Germany,
                    I served in the GSVG, and I was on an excursion in WEIMAR, in Buchenwald, I have something to compare with. Here is what 31231 writes, almost the encryption of Eustace.
                    Are you sure that not one cubic meter of fresh soil has been dumped from Kharp to Ob
                    It’s something, somewhere, somehow ... Your comrade is completely confused, Salekhard-Igarka is on the other side of Kharp, Take a map and see for yourself, the road is poured from Khralovo to Bovanenkovo, from Kharp to Ob, riverport, the road is 100 years old , and enough to carry the blizzard about the construction of the 501st, Sleepers were laid on the sand, not a single rubble was in sight, there was nowhere to take it,
                    ! I'm talking about the construction camps of prisoners.
                    What are the towns? Campsites? A wagon-town, it’s not railway cars, but residential modules mounted on a sled, are towed by tractors and no one throws them in the tundra. You die from laughter, you don’t know anything. Come on a visit until it's cold, see for yourself and you won’t ask stupid questions. Where is the rubble? Everything, it's time to sleep, tomorrow for work. hi
                2. 31231
                  31231 25 August 2013 20: 09
                  0
                  Where did I write about settlements ?! I'm talking about the construction camps of prisoners. At that time, settlements in this region were located on navigable rivers, because in summer it was only possible to import them. Temporary ones were built for the winter season and were not tied to navigable rivers.
                3. 31231
                  31231 25 August 2013 20: 27
                  0
                  I will not say anything from Harp to Nadym. I am far from the office and those people who could find out something from this angle. Just four years ago, my old employers were invited to the construction of this facility. Then there was information that that customer, like in Harp's rock quarries, was kaposhitsya and dumped something. It was assumed that a piece of iron. Are you sure that not one cubic meter of fresh soil has been dumped from Kharp to Ob?
                  1. grafrozow
                    grafrozow 25 August 2013 23: 23
                    +1
                    Quote: 31231
                    About the train from Kharp to Nadym now I will not say anything
                    You won’t say correctly, because this does not exist !!!
                    Quote: 31231
                    the customer, like in the rock quarries of Harpa, is kaposhitsya and dumps something. It was assumed that a piece of iron.
                    This is something from Hralovo to Bovanenkovo, do not worry, have already done.
                    1. 31231
                      31231 26 August 2013 07: 28
                      0
                      This is something from the Obskaya to Bovanenkovo. So by the way. I myself took part in the construction of the site from Khralov to Bovanov. Five hundredth kilometers of the route (near Mordyyakha).
                      Further, I will say it again for you, I see a person who is far from construction. It was planned to build a railway road from Labytkov through Salekhard to Nadym. I also know where Igarka is, because from Vankor where I worked, it was 80 km to her. Can still explain where is Vankor ?!
                      1. grafrozow
                        grafrozow 26 August 2013 08: 43
                        0
                        Quote: 31231
                        I also know where Igarka is, because from Vankor where I worked, it was 80 km to her.
                        Nonsense again, not 80 km. and 160 km to the "Priluki" base and another km 10 through the Yenisei, since Igarka is on the other side of the river. It is clear that you were not even close there.
                        Quote: 31231
                        Can still explain where is Vankor ?!
                        Just tell me how many kilometers from St. Urengoy to Vankor, what is the name of the river on Vankor and the warehouse on its shore. And where is the first bush, if you know what it is.
                      2. 31231
                        31231 26 August 2013 17: 11
                        0
                        River Boat. I don’t know and didn’t take interest in the first bush, because I was not involved in the field’s development, but in the gas pipeline from Vankor to Halmerpaityensky.
                        I didn’t go to Igarka, all according to the customer of Vankorneft. If memory serves, then from Farafontievskaya to Vankor 500 km. I won’t tell you the exact numbers, because the acre of Vankor worked on a variety of objects, and glory to God in 60 degree frost did not fill the railway with clay.
                      3. grafrozow
                        grafrozow 26 August 2013 23: 03
                        0
                        Quote: 31231
                        River Boat. The first bush where I do not know
                        They guessed with the river, the first bush right at the entrance from the winter road on the left side, after the checkpoint. Farofontevskaya station is 17 km away. from Novy Urengoy, we carried cargo from Korotchaevo and St. Urengoy, then from Pryluk. I think you understand.
        2. 31231
          31231 25 August 2013 16: 55
          +2
          And why did you get the idea that in winter someone will thresh permafrost under the grave ?! Isn’t it easier to send the corpse to Salekhard or Harp with the opportunity ?! Corpses in the subgrade ?! Do you know the construction technology of the railway? and so, the chief who begins to lay the corpses in the canvas and then he himself is laid there.
          The road was built in the winter. And in the summer, they prepared the soil under it in the Harpa area.
          And do not tell tales about working in 60 degree frost. For 10 years of winter roads (Yamburg, Bovanenkovo, Vankor, as well as Yakutia) once seen on a thermometer 56 at 10 o’clock in the morning) at 15.00 it was already 45.
          1. grafrozow
            grafrozow 25 August 2013 19: 43
            0
            Quote: 31231
            And why did you get the idea that in winter someone will thresh permafrost under the grave ?! Isn’t it easier to send the corpse to Salekhard or Harp with the opportunity ?!
            Lord, another "Expert", look on the map where Salekhard is and where Kharp is, and who will carry the corpses of convicts for 100-200 km.
            Quote: 31231
            Corpses in the subgrade ?! Do you know the construction technology of the railway?
            Where did you read this, did I write about it? Don’t ascribe to me your inventions, as with working at -60, the act was at -42, but they didn’t let anyone out of the pre-trial detention center. What winter road to Yamburg? Concrete and asphalt have been going there from Urengoy for 15 years. The road was built all year round, from 1947 to 1953. and the soil for the construction was taken in nearby quarries, since the road was built in separate sections, there was no passage and no one was over 200km. I didn’t take the soil from Harpa. I looked at your nickname and realized who I was talking to, hi
            1. 31231
              31231 26 August 2013 07: 18
              -1
              We call winter work in the winter in areas of the Far North. Maybe you still have to chew why massive work in the High North is carried out in winter, and not in summer ?! Railway was built from Kharp through Labytnangi, through the Ob and Salekhard.
              Regarding the construction of the railway: participated in the construction of the railway from Ob to; from Ulak to Elga (Amurka, Yakutia). Railway to Bovanenkovo ​​was built on a special project. Almost all subgrade sand, the upper part of the rock. Sodnite was used against sand thawing. The main task is to preserve permafrost in the body of the canvas.
              For some reason, I don’t look at your nickname, because I don’t see your clothes and passport. Although I could not help but notice your aristocratic noble message.
              1. grafrozow
                grafrozow 26 August 2013 09: 09
                0
                Quote: 31231
                We call winter work in the winter in areas of the Far North. Maybe you still have to chew why massive work in the High North is carried out in winter, and not in summer ?!
                You can also call a woman a man, a winter road is a temporary road, "massive" work is going on in the Far North all year round, but the delivery of materials and equipment necessary for construction is carried out on winter roads, in summer along rivers, if any, in special cases, cargo they are delivered by helicopters, MI-8, MI-10, as well as on shift teams. I chewed you right.
                Quote: 31231
                Although I could not help but notice your aristocratic noble message.
                Correctly noticed. hi Here is the technological winter road, Long Yugan - Salekhard.
                1. 31231
                  31231 26 August 2013 17: 22
                  +1
                  Do not talk nonsense about mass work in the Far North all year round. If it is still possible to drift along dumped roads during the field development, then the "ruler" is laid in winter.
                  In summer, work is not massively available: dumping during the arrangement, pile work, about the laying of the pipe has already been mentioned.
        3. 31231
          31231 26 August 2013 08: 25
          0
          Severtruboprovodstroy went bankrupt after 2002. In 2006, our organization still worked with him. And only in 2008 did they repay their last debts.
          1. grafrozow
            grafrozow 26 August 2013 16: 08
            0
            Quote: 31231
            Severtruboprovodstroy went bankrupt after 2002. In 2006, our organization still worked with him. And only in 2008 did they repay their last debts.
            How did you get "smart", STPS was declared bankrupt in 2002, until 2010. the trust was managed by an EXTERNAL MANAGER. How about the answers about Vankor?
            1. 31231
              31231 26 August 2013 17: 33
              0
              Wow, in 2006 we didn’t know such revelations. And where did the customer of that pipe look ?! Here's a divorce. Bggg.
    2. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 11: 39
      +1
      ..... and even if you still want to draw a parallel with the concentration camps, I will express the following opinion. here you say that you are familiar with the former Gulag inmates, if they are alive then they were released. Those. they were released either at the end of the term or under an amnesty, right? Another case of a concentration camp, give an example of at least one release from a concentration camp at the end of a term or under an amnesty, I do not know such examples. All prisoners of concentration camps were released as a result of the offensive of the Soviet Army or Allied troops ...... I certainly understand that it is convenient to take the opportunity to argue about yours and reduce old accounts with the author, but the article is not about Samara and railway Sapekhard -Igarka, but about the concept itself .....
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 25 August 2013 14: 11
        -4
        Quote: Rosomaha67
        ..... and even if you still want to draw a parallel with the concentration camps, I will express the following opinion. here you say that you are familiar with the former Gulag inmates, if they are alive then they were released. Those. they were released either at the end of the term or under an amnesty, right? Another case of a concentration camp, give an example of at least one release from a concentration camp at the end of the term or under an amnesty, I do not know such examples
        Who were released from the GULAG camps during the war at the end of their term or under an amnesty? Here is a "prisoner" of the GULAG, We worked together in NadymDorStroy until 2005.
        1. Rosomaha67
          Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 15: 13
          0
          .... unlike you, I don’t specifically deal with this issue, and I won’t say specific names, but in my native village of Sergeevka, in my childhood I talked with 3-4 former Gulag inmates who left after serving time and settled in our places , and indeed we generally have half the village of victims of dispossession, Vlasenko, Vasilenko from Ukraine, Lyadzhina from Western Belarus ..... so there are many descendants of the victims and many recall their seated relatives. And I’ll say right away that their stories can be trusted to the same extent as yours, quite respected by me, Ivan Marmanov, well, his stories are not truthful just because he published them, and they just told us so .....
          ... and by the way, what did they release during the war, the stories of Marmanov which, if I am not mistaken, concern 52 years?
        2. Rosomaha67
          Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 15: 39
          0
          ..... and by the way, I visited the site of the city of Samara, found an article dedicated to Gagarin's park, read about the monument to victims of political repression, also visited the page of the local society "Memorial", read with interest a story about the former head of the local KGB administration, who told about burial, but links to the autopsy of burials, to the results of the investigation of the commissions and the final documents, I have not found, as far as I understand, to date nothing of the kind has been done, i.e. you judge by the words of one person, even a former KGB man, well, about the discovery of the atrocities of Chinggis Khan, I already told above, I will not repeat myself, in general, the answer is the same facts in the studio, and you wanted to publish the autobiographies of the participants there, let's publish otherwise I will call you a liar ......... you are our truthful !!!! laughing
          ... by the way, I do not deny the shootings themselves, by the way I "wandered" into the former "raster room" of the Krasnoyarsk and Yenisei SIZOs, so I don’t deny the shootings were both at "you" in Samara and at us in Krasnoyarsk, that's just about I don’t believe mass graves ........ and by the way, we also have such a shooting range "Dynamo" on Nikolaevskaya Sopka, so there is also a forest planted artificially, I know for sure and there are rumors from old workers that are also in their 30s. 40 someone was buried, because it is also a protected area and by the way the Ministry of Internal Affairs is still the land ...... come to us to dig, I will show you where !!!!
    3. 31231
      31231 25 August 2013 16: 13
      +1
      And where did you determine that all the prisoners you mentioned are political ?! In Harpe, and now there is a zone, then what ?! Why did you decide that this railway was built by political ones ?! Criminals then, in the heat of the Kuban sat ?! Burial 3600 in Samara ?! Also political?
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 25 August 2013 22: 25
        0
        What is the scale of the "Stalinist repressions".
        "Tables:
        The number of prisoners in the NKVD camps on January 1.
        NKVD camps, their economic specialization and the number of prisoners
        as of January 11, 1935
        The number of prisoners in the camps of the NKVD
        as of January 1, 1939
        The composition of the Gulag prisoners by the nature of the crimes ...

        Since 1939, ITCs have been under the jurisdiction of the Gulag,
        and prisons run by the Main Prison Directorate (STU) of the NKVD ...
        ... So, to summarize - for the entire period of Stalin’s reign, the number of prisoners at the same time in prison,
        never exceeded 2 million 760 thousand (naturally, not counting German, Japanese and other prisoners of war). Thus, there can be no question of any "tens of millions of GULAG prisoners ..."
        http://stalinism.ru/repressii/kakovyi-masshtabyi-stalinskih-repressiy.html
      2. grafrozow
        grafrozow 26 August 2013 09: 22
        0
        Quote: 31231
        And where did you determine that all the prisoners you mentioned are political ?! In Harpe, and now there is a zone, then what ?! Why did you decide that this railway was built by political ones ?! Criminals then, in the heat of the Kuban sat ?!
        Where did I write that they were building only political ones, why do you constantly misinterpret my comments? On the counter there were zk and under criminal articles, by the way, they recruited "self-protection" from them, and they trusted weapons, unlike political ones.
        Quote: 31231
        Burial 3600 in Samara ?! Also political?
        No, these are spies from Honduras and Madagascar.
  • AvadraCedavra
    AvadraCedavra 24 August 2013 16: 55
    -12 qualifying.
    Delusional article.
    The author writes that they got into the Gulag by a court verdict and nothing else. Well, yes, if the author had been in the NKVD, he would have confessed everything from theft to espionage. 99% of the criminal cases of that time had the frank recognition of a suspect obtained by torture as the main evidence base. And now it’s not uncommon. The judicial system is the screen used by the criminal Stalinist regime to legitimize its decisions. The demonstration processes conducted at that time have nothing to do with an honest and impartial court. The terrible thing is that at present in Putin's Russia, the judicial system is not much different from the Stalinist one. The trial in Nazi Germany was much fairer than in the USSR.
    In general, it is incorrect to compare the concentration camp and correctional colonies. Different goals were pursued by these institutions. In one case, this content, followed by destruction, in the other, it is cheap labor for the implementation of ambitious Stalinist projects. Although, concentration camps often contained criminals. The decree "On the protection of the people and the state" of February 28, 1933, allowed to restrict the fundamental rights and freedoms of citizens. According to this decree, the state could restrict freedom even without committing specific crimes by a person, if this serves the interests of “protecting the state”.
    Concentration camps to one degree or another exist in any state and serve to temporarily detain illegal immigrants before deportation. In Russia, concentration camps were created during the war in Chechnya, where the local population was subjected to torture and destruction.
    1. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 24 August 2013 17: 28
      +6
      ... again, here we have an admirer of a "just and humane state" called fascist Germany, and the totalitarian USSR destroyed it, and even powdered the brains of the allies, and together they condemned noble Germany at the Nuremberg trials. Yes, and all the evidence was rigged by the Putin clique, well, how could it be without V.V. from him all the troubles in the world ...
    2. Proud.
      Proud. 24 August 2013 17: 50
      +8
      99% of the criminal cases of that time had the upright recognition of the suspect as the main evidence base
      What is your assertion based on? Just do not refer to Vyshinsky, he held the opposite opinion: “It would be wrong to give the accused or the defendant, or rather, their explanations, more importance than they deserve it ... In rather distant times, in the era of domination in the process the theory of the so-called legal (formal) evidence, the overestimation of the significance of the confessions of the defendant or the accused reached such an extent that the confession of the accused was considered an immutable, unquestionable truth, even if this confession was wrested from him by torture, which was almost not the only procedural evidence, at least considered the most serious evidence, "the queen of evidence" ... ... This principle is completely unacceptable for Soviet law and judicial practice. Indeed, if other circumstances established in the case prove the guilt of the person brought to justice, then the consciousness of this person loses knowledge the proof of the proof in this respect becomes superfluous. In this case, its significance can be reduced only to the fact that it serves as a basis for assessing certain moral qualities of the defendant, for lowering or strengthening the punishment determined by the court. investigation, is capable of jeopardizing the whole case if the accused changes his testimony or rejects it. "
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      Show processes
      Exactly, indicative, open processes.
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      The trial in Nazi Germany was much fairer than in the USSR.
      Yes (aspirated), yes ...
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      Decree "On the Protection of the People and the State" of February 28, 1933
      And why are you referring to the decree of the Reich President of the German Empire of February 28, 1933, abolishing the civil rights of the Weimar constitution?

      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      In Russia, concentration camps were created during the war in Chechnya, where the local population was subjected to torture and destruction.
      Yes you CHO !?
    3. AlNikolaich
      AlNikolaich 24 August 2013 22: 38
      +6
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      concentration camps to one degree or another exist in any state and serve for the temporary detention of illegal immigrants before deportation. In Russia, concentration camps were created during the war in Chechnya, where the local population was subjected to torture and destruction.

      And from this place I will ask in more detail! Something your opus gives a little false! Facts, facts!
  • OZI-2013
    OZI-2013 24 August 2013 17: 46
    -6
    Over 2-3 nights, tens of thousands of people were deported to the Gulag from Moldova. Interesting when the courts managed to judge and convict them?
    1. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 24 August 2013 17: 58
      +8
      ........ please in more detail when, whom ...... yes right away where they got them, you are talking about the Gulag. Maybe they were all the same deported to Siberia or Kazakhstan, this is a little different ..... and again I draw attention to the author of the article saying that he does not justify the Gulag, he is opposed to the Gulag being associated with concentration camps. And then I, too, will now begin to associate all Moldovans with the Romanians, but now you are just getting ready to become them, and they oh how much Russian blood has drunk in the Second World War, and I will begin to accuse you of Romanian crimes ....
      1. OZI-2013
        OZI-2013 25 August 2013 18: 36
        0
        Well, first of all, I talked about the so-called triplets. About where exactly they sent people to death (to Kazakhstan or Siberia) is already a question that interests me less. As you say - what's on the forehead that on the forehead.
        Now about associating Moldavians with Romanians. Not worth it. This is silly. This is the same as associating the population of Pskov or Novgorod (former medieval principalities) with the Russians. I think you caught the thought. And in order to make sure just google a little the history of the Moldavian prince.
        And it’s about Russian vipity blood. You know, before the war in Romania, the choice was not great. Either go against the fascist Germany which occupied Transilvan or against communist Russia. The choice was not made in favor of Russia. Unfortunately, small countries can only choose between a bad option and a very bad one.
        So you can start blaming me: smile: but just before that take the trouble to read a little about the history of the Romanian states (Moldova and Muntenia).
        Good luck!
        1. Rosomaha67
          Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 19: 38
          0
          ... and they were condemned (several tens of thousands) for 2-3 nights too ????
          .... so they were still deported or imprisoned under the sentence "3" ??????
          .... why can’t you associate the inhabitants of Novgorod or Pskov with the Russians, or do not Russian people live there ????? ... I didn’t catch the thought, excuse me, enlighten the illiterate .....
          ... well, in this case, the USSR also had no choice; he was forced to deport the population of Moldova at that time in its history ......
          ... well, if we talk about the participation of the Romanian troops on the Eastern Front, then I was not talking about their participation in the war on the side of Germany, but about their "behavior", when even their German allies were shocked by the cruelty and atrocities of the Romanian soldiers in the occupied territory , I meant these "Romanian crimes" .......
          1. OZI-2013
            OZI-2013 26 August 2013 17: 47
            -1
            I'll start in order ... (sorry I do not know your name)
            ..a condemned them (several tens of thousands) also for 2-3 nights ???
            - I actually in my koment also asked this question. Most likely everything was done retroactively. My father (whose family escaped deportation by a miracle) told me that no one knew about any charges. Moreover, when the monogies heard that Russian soldiers were entering the village (usually at night) they simply collected belongings (they were simple peasants and did not understand what awaited them) and waited on the doorstep of the house waiting for them to be taken or not (they just knew that some taken almost naked). So there was no question of any courts.

            .... why can’t you associate the inhabitants of Novgorod or Pskov with the Russians, or do not Russian people live there ????? ... I didn’t catch the thought, excuse me, enlighten the illiterate .....
            Sorry to be so vaguely outlined. I’m more used to talking with our Moldavian Russians. They know a little our story, but they love to turn on the fool. So, if very briefly, just like the Russian principalities united and formed Russia (and began to call themselves Russian), the Romanian principalities (Moldova and Wallachia (Muntenia)) united and formed Romania. And of course, they began to call themselves Romanians. This nonsense, that the Moldovans say on the left bank of the Prut represent the Moldavian nation and the Moldovans on the right bank (who are now in Romania) of the Romanians, appeared under Stalin in the twenties. With this, he wanted to justify later (in 1940) the occupation of the eastern part of Moldova (Bessarabia).
            ... well, in this case, the USSR also had no choice; he was forced to deport the population of Moldova at that time in its history ......
            . Now about the right to choose. Yes, the choice was made by Romania. Only there is one caveat. She had the right not to choose. And it was Germany and the USSR that took this right from Romania. So the decision made by Romania does not give the Soviet Union the right to repress the civilian population. Moreover, at this time, Moldova (Bessarabia) was part of the USSR. Thus, to be honest, our conversation on this topic does not make any sense at all.
            And the last thing. About the behavior of the Romanians at that time. I'll be very honest. What spread about their "behavior" as a whole (especially in the Odessa region) is a documentary refuted lie (well, unless, of course, you miss the fact that there was a war and there are plenty of idiots everywhere). Romania generally did not really want to enter the war (those who remember Moldovans / Romanians from the time of the USSR will confirm that we are a peaceful people) and there was an opinion to liberate only Moldova and stop at the Dniester. But under pressure from Germany, they went further. The Romanians equally disliked the Germans and the Russians. By the way, unlike the Hungarians (who were distinguished by their cruelty), Romania allowed the fascist party (legionnaires) only into the ruling coalition (this was under pressure from Germany), but did not give them full power.
            The only thing they can be blamed for is repressions against the Jews (on whom they had a big tooth (this is a long story)) and gypsies. But again, it is on the conscience of the legionnaires whom the Germans planted. By the way, Romanians themselves suffered from their hands. They, for example, killed one of the most outstanding personalities of that time, writer and philosopher Nicolae Iorga (check on Wikipedia).
            Something like that. All the best.
    2. Proud.
      Proud. 24 August 2013 18: 28
      +3
      Quote: OZI-2013
      From Moldova for tens of thousands of people deported to the Gulag in 2-3 nights

      You cannot deport to the GULAG (General Directorate of Camps), this is an administrative unit. If you are talking about correctional institutions, then this is serving a sentence, but not deportation. Did everyone serve their sentences undeservedly? No, not all. In any system, at all times there is- rapists, murderers, robbers, thieves, embezzlers, bandits, clear enemies of the formation. Were there been innocently convicted? There were. As a result of judicial errors and a number of other reasons. But the deportation itself took place. On the eve of the Great Patriotic War, deportations were carried out. The deportations carried out were explained by a whole complex reasons: "unreliability", preventive measures, confessional factor, opposition to transformative measures, participation in bandit formations, belonging to the institutions of an outdated system (the Baltic States, western regions of Ukraine and Belarus, Moldova, etc.). Yes, the measure is tough, sometimes cruel . To discuss it from the point of view of "one big crime of the regime" is unproductive. It is necessary to consider it in the presence of a large number of factors - the period of time (in history), the socio-political atmosphere within the Country, the political atmosphere outside the Country, the effectiveness of the measures taken as an instrument for stability within the State. The issue is very complex.
    3. Andrey Skokovsky
      Andrey Skokovsky 25 August 2013 12: 06
      +3
      Quote: OZI-2013
      Over 2-3 nights, tens of thousands of people were deported to the Gulag from Moldova. Interesting when the courts managed to judge and convict them?

      you do not seem to read the article or do not understand
      try to compare xnumx situations

      1 Moldova (your example) and the USSR in general, the entire future 5th column on the territory occupied by Soviet troops, goes to the Gulag for 10-year "re-education" in teplushkas, a completely understandable and vital step - tomorrow is war, and the USSR knows this, people have status and certain rights

      2 Germany, all the objectionable Poles, Jews, Slavs are collected in concentration camps, there is simply no prison term - forever, if the obedient regime can be softer, on the farm or at the owner, they are sent to death concentration camps for disobedience where the rebellious and unnecessary are already killed
      people have real life status as a slave, there are no rights at all - more precisely, as a master of a higher race, they will decline.

      3 the United States, with the outbreak of war, having forgotten a little about democracy and human rights, Asians stupidly throw all of their citizens into concentration camps throughout the country, without charge and without time limit, those without status and rights
      the same way the us acted with its citizens during the great depression

      so compare where it will be more legal
      1. OZI-2013
        OZI-2013 25 August 2013 18: 57
        -1
        Andrey, I will answer for one thing to Victor (Gordei). From the Russian point of view, this of course sounds logical. Well, as an example, to kill the children of the defeated enemy so that they do not grow up and do not take revenge. Thus, of course, any crime can be justified.
        Another thing is how Moldovans who in captivity fell into these millstones should look at it.
        By the way, in today's world, such things are customarily condemned by everyone. Including those who did it.
  • Snoop
    Snoop 24 August 2013 19: 38
    +5
    simplified procedure, of course. Special NKVD troika were originally created to curb street crime. Appeared at the end of the 20s. Cases were considered then in relation to previously convicted for grave and especially grave crimes and serving their sentences in prison. Repeat offenders were removed from the streets and their gangs. Well, and later ... expanded powers on the considered categories of crimes.
  • avt
    avt 24 August 2013 20: 07
    +5
    Quote: smile
    Oh, actually duplicated your comment ...

    Yes, it doesn’t matter, look how interesting it is - a woman, in underwear, for 19 years, the NKVD, someone said. Well, right away, right away, cry for a blast and curse the totalitarian regime, but there wasn’t, and if it was for that, it’s the tenth thing for the story. But what about the pilot Devyatyarov, who was taken prisoner, hijacked a plane with his comrades, and after checking SMERSH he was also made a Hero of the Soviet Union? And this is not an isolated case. And here, tales singers even noted a little bit - they announced that he had been suspended from flight work because of mistrust, and so he worked as a river engineer on the Volga. The great thing is tales, which are much more fun than looking at the protocols where it says how many released from captivity after checking the Red Army and didn’t go to the penal units, whom they wrote off for health, but who they leaned against the wall or were sentenced to prisoner for appropriate behavior. Were innocent convicts? Yes, of course they were, ktozh argues that. Living people judged the court, it happened that not very worthy.
    1. smile
      smile 24 August 2013 20: 26
      +3
      avt
      That's right. you're right. But I don’t particularly like that mainly these bikes are supported here ... let's say, some comrades from the former republics ... and especially from some republics, people from which like to talk about what kind of chauvinists we are and how tolerant and honest they are .... this indirectly indicates what kind of propaganda is being conducted in these republics .... unpleasantly ....
      1. builder
        builder 24 August 2013 20: 46
        +8
        Today at a construction site I was visited by the idea that in about ... thirty years the myth will be born that the Russian invaders, leaving the Central Asian republics, took with them into slavery (probably to Siberia) the entire able-bodied population. wink
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 24 August 2013 23: 16
          +5
          Quote: stroitel
          Today at a construction site I was visited by the idea that in about ... thirty years the myth will be born that the Russian invaders, leaving the Central Asian republics, took with them into slavery (probably to Siberia) the entire able-bodied population.
          I didn't understand right away, +++, leave the "memoirs of a contemporary", future historians will come in handy, well, like a topic for a dissertation.
    2. grafrozow
      grafrozow 24 August 2013 20: 41
      0
      Quote: avt
      But what about the pilot Devyatyarov that was captured, the plane hijacked with his comrades, and after checking SMERSH he was also made a Hero of the Soviet Union
      Learn to spell the last name HERO. The pilot Devyatayev Mikhail Petrovich became the Hero of the Soviet Union in 1957. The escape was February 8, 1945. Since1946 he worked as a loader in the riverport, then on-duty of the river station until 1957.
      Quote: avt
      And here, tales singers even noted a little bit - they announced that he was suspended from flight work because of mistrust, and so he worked as a river engineer on the Volga. Great thing tales
      Where are the bikes here? Read the biography of the Hero, think about what you write.
      1. Greyfox
        Greyfox 24 August 2013 22: 40
        +2
        Quote: grafrozow
        Where are the bikes here? Read the biography of the Hero, think about what you write.

        Why should they read? They are either Devyatyarov or Devyatayev ... Passed the test and once-immediately he was a Hero of the Soviet Union (according to their version of history). I noticed that many here on the forum either "we were all bad" or "we were fine". They don't need a real story.
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 24 August 2013 23: 10
          -4
          Quote: Greyfox
          ... I noticed that many here on the forum either "we were all bad" or "we were fine". They don't need a real story.
          The merit of our power, -step to the right, step to the left, jump up-shoot without warning. There is a line of "party and government" and do not try to discuss it. Our government is just right, as soon as a new ruler is here and a "new history". It's disgusting to look at all this, drinks
      2. avt
        avt 25 August 2013 09: 40
        +3
        Quote: grafrozow
        Learn to spell the last name HERO. The pilot Devyatayev Mikhail Petrovich became the Hero of the Soviet Union in 1957. The escape was February 8, 1945. Since1946 he worked as a loader in the riverport, then on-duty of the river station until 1957.

        Really wrong, thanks for correcting. hi
        Quote: grafrozow
        Where are the bikes here? Read the biography of the Hero, think about what you write.

        And where is the insidious hand of the NKVD? Well, a person did not fit into a peaceful life right away, how many were there after the war? Not everyone like Garnayev could be so drawn to flight work.
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 25 August 2013 14: 26
          -2
          Quote: avt
          And where is the insidious hand of the NKVD?
          And where did I mention the NKVD? On the contrary, the NKVD glory !!! After 12 years, the award found a hero !!!
          Quote: avt
          Well, a person did not fit into a peaceful life right away, how many were there after the war?
          And indeed, that we are the fate of one of our people, we are worried about the oppressed Africans, this is more important. Read about the "Not fit" war invalids - Valaam DIVT, Kirilo-Belozersky, Goritsky, Alexand
          ro-Svirsky ... Wasn't that the same thing? How then, no one is forgotten and nothing is forgotten?
    3. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 24 August 2013 21: 08
      -4
      Maybe then explain the collective fault of the Poles, Koreans, Meskhetian Turks, Ingush, Chechens, Greeks, God knows who else, completely torn from their native places and sent to us in Kazakhstan? I ask you to.
      1. 7ydmco
        7ydmco 24 August 2013 23: 23
        +8
        What kind of fault can they have? This is the evil Stalin during the war (when there was nowhere to put resources for such a relocation smile ) decided due to naturally insanity smile evict proud nations. Naturally, as every hand-shaking individual knows - a liberal, gay and democratic journalist, some peoples did not deserted en masse, did not engage in banditry and did not arrange various unpleasant blasts of the Soviet regime smile
        1. Greyfox
          Greyfox 25 August 2013 08: 31
          -4
          Quote: 7ydmco
          What kind of fault can they have? This is the evil Stalin during the war (when there was nowhere to put resources for such a relocation smile ) decided due to naturally insanity smile evict proud nations. Naturally, as every hand-shaking individual knows - a liberal, gay and democratic journalist, some peoples did not deserted en masse, did not engage in banditry and did not arrange various unpleasant blasts of the Soviet regime smile

          A specimen of a moron. Everybody was attracted by both gays and liberals. For example, in 1936, where did the Koreans defect from? Huh?
          As I said above, such a story is not needed, they have their own ... Just like the gyrus in the brain, one and a straight line.
          1. grafrozow
            grafrozow 25 August 2013 14: 37
            -2
            Quote: Greyfox
            A specimen of a moron. Everybody was attracted by both gays and liberals. For example, in 1936, where did the Koreans defect from? Huh?
            As I said above, such a story is not needed, they have their own ... Just like the gyrus in the brain, one and a straight line.
            Koreans deserted together with the Chinese, from the labor front ... Such "historians" have no convolutions at all.
            1. 7ydmco
              7ydmco 25 August 2013 18: 47
              0
              Well, of course not, historians are you and Grefox, though for some reason historians do not read carefully, well, they don’t need to do this, the main thing is to expose, expose and expose. I hope at least part of the grants will pass smile
  • individual
    individual 24 August 2013 20: 26
    +3
    It's time to revive the Troika.
    While the judicial machinery will unfold, fulfilling all the notorious principles, and the person involved in the case is already in London and comments to the press about what kind of justice we have is not right.
  • uizik
    uizik 24 August 2013 20: 52
    +3
    For some, "troikas" have been crying for a long time !!!
  • Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 24 August 2013 21: 11
    -3
    History quickly erases horrors and pain from memory. However, when it is painful and scary, remember everything.
    1. 7ydmco
      7ydmco 24 August 2013 23: 27
      +6
      Very, very fast, especially with me, as the son of a repressed mother. And all the same, I think the actions of Stalin are true. And it’s neither painful nor scary smile
  • AK-19
    AK-19 24 August 2013 21: 22
    +2
    Lukyanenko wrote in one of his books (I will definitely not quote, because I read it for a long time): "In order to catch all the guilty, you need to imprison the innocent. If you imprison only the guilty, then the most cunning guilty will hide among the innocent." I think this at least partially explains the number of people sitting in the Gulag.
    1. builder
      builder 24 August 2013 23: 46
      +7
      Quote: AK-19
      If only the guilty are imprisoned, then the most cunning guilty ones will hide among the innocent. "I think this at least partially explains the number of people sitting in the Gulag.

      In addition to Lukyanenko, read something.
      V.N. Zemskov. Gulag (historical and sociological aspect) Sociological research. 1991, N6, pp. 10-27; 1991, N7, pp. 3-16 http://www.hrono.ru/statii/2001/zemskov.html):
      “In the terrible 37th” in the Gulag there were 1 people, of which 196% were criminals. In the year 369, there were already 87 people in the Gulag, that is, the “victims of the 38th” arrived in large numbers, criminals made up 1%.
      From the 39th year until the start of the war, the number of prisoners began to decrease. The smallest percentage of criminals was in 1947 - 40% of the 1,7 million prisoners - the camps were filled with police officers, Bandera, fascist minions and other "innocent victims".
      “The maximum number of prisoners in the Gulag in January 1, 1950 was 2.” Of these, 561% were criminals (ibid.).
      В USA, where at present, in peacetime, more than 2,3 million people are in prison. (http://www.newsru.com/world/29feb2008/prisoners.html) The population of the United States is about 300 million, and the USSR of those years is about 200 million. If you count the United States for the population of the USSR, it turns out that now in the United States there would be 1,53 million prisoners, which is slightly less than “at the peak of the Stalinist mass repressions” -1,88 million, slightly more than in the “terrible 37th”, and approximately equal to the number of prisoners in the USSR in 1939 - 1,66 million
      Russia in 2000 - about 1,1 million people, which, when converted to the population of the USSR (145 million against 200 million), is about 25% more than in 1937, and as much less in 1938. That is, not so noticeable - there is practically no difference. The probability of being in prison during those years under Stalin and in Russia under Yeltsin-Putin was almost the same.
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 25 August 2013 00: 17
        -6
        Quote: stroitel
        In addition to Lukyanenko, read something.
        How is it?
        1. builder
          builder 25 August 2013 00: 55
          +3
          No way. The graph is about nothing. According to this schedule, there were no felons in the Gulag.
          1. builder
            builder 25 August 2013 01: 16
            +7
            Nutritional standards for cereals (Russia 2005) 300 g of bread from a mixture of rye and wheat flour of the first grade (for women - 200 g), 1 g of tea, 3 g of tomato paste, 10 g of dried fruit and two eggs per week . In addition, according to the decree, men serving their sentences should receive 550 g of potatoes per day (women - 500 g). The standards for meat and fish for men and women serving sentences are the same: 90 g of meat and 100 g of fish per day.
            Less meat and fish, for 1948 (3 years after the war) is not bad.
          2. grafrozow
            grafrozow 25 August 2013 14: 41
            -2
            Quote: stroitel
            No way. The graph is about nothing. According to this schedule, there were no felons in the Gulag.
            Yes, damn it, gives the village. Enlarge the picture or put on glasses and read what year and how many percent. hi
            1. builder
              builder 25 August 2013 16: 48
              +1
              He put on glasses, plus all the percentages in the picture (below the graph, the composition of the Gulag prisoners on the basis of the crimes (data as of 01.01.51) turned out to be 100%. Explain to me the village, we had only political in the Gulag, or there were no criminal in the USSR crime?
              1. sleepy
                sleepy 25 August 2013 23: 04
                +1
                Gulag (historical and sociological aspect), the purpose of the article is to show the true statistics of the Gulag prisoners,

                "... O. G. Shatunovskaya, who, referring to a certain document of the KGB of the USSR, which later allegedly mysteriously disappeared, writes:
                “... From January 1, 1935 to June 22, 1941, 19 million 840 thousand“ enemies of the people ”were arrested. Of these, 7 million were shot. Most of the rest died in the camps ”[9].

                In this information O.G. Shatunovskaya allowed more than 10-fold exaggeration of both the scope of the repressions and the number of people executed. She also claims that most of the rest (presumably 7-10 million people) died in the camps. But we have absolutely accurate information that during the period from January 1, 1934 to December 31, 1947, 963 prisoners died in the labor camps of the Gulag. this number includes not only “enemies of the people”, but also criminals. (Table 3). "

                http://scepsis.net/library/id_937.html

                "In the directive of the NKVD of the USSR of August 1, 1945, it was said:" In testing and filtration camps for disabled active disabled people, patients with an incurable illness, allocate pregnant women, women with young children and the elderly to special groups, which should be checked promptly within 20 days. In the absence of materials on specific crimes, the indicated persons should be sent to their places of permanent residence. "[Ibid.] On August 11, 1945, a new directive of the NKVD of the USSR was issued, which said:" To release from the testing and filtration camps all the disabled, sick with an incurable illness, the elderly , pregnant women and women with children - from the special contingent of 1 and 2 registration groups ... To send the released to the place of residence in compliance with the regime restrictions, issue them certificates for exchange at the place of residence for passports "[ibid.]."
        2. Rosomaha67
          Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 11: 49
          +5
          .... Wow then we really built communism, according to the diagram of this comrade, from 1934 to 1948 no one stole, didn’t kill and in general there was no criminal offense ??????? .... I urgently want such a country! !!! laughing
        3. mole
          mole 25 August 2013 13: 09
          +2
          Like in this picture only concepts:
          Treason;
          -espionage;
          -anti-state agitation (anti-Soviet);
          -participation in anti-state conspiracies, anti-state organizations and groups (anti-Soviet);
          -sabotage.
          I think it is correctly defined. Now there is no responsibility for the above crimes, so we are losing rockets, we are fighting not corruption with the motherland and participation in anti-state conspiracies, but corruption. Not talking about participation in anti-state groups, societies and communities, we give conditional terms. Enrages already. Read the newspapers of that period, critics of the government (although, of course, not supreme, but bureaucratic) at that time, many times more than now.
      2. builder
        builder 25 August 2013 16: 36
        0
        In tsarist Russia (which "they lost") in 1914 there were 1774412 people in prison. (more than in the Gulag after the purges of 1937-38)
  • Sochi
    Sochi 24 August 2013 22: 35
    +6
    There is an iron truth - the winner writes the history of the vanquished ... So here too liberalists of all stripes distort the truth as they can, the truth is they don’t need ... otherwise they are immediately visible as traitors. Yes, not everything in our history was fair and absolutely legal, But I don’t know ANY state in the world that can boast of this.
    1. 7ydmco
      7ydmco 24 August 2013 23: 30
      0
      We must look at the actions of those years, based on the situation that existed at that time.
  • michajlo
    michajlo 25 August 2013 00: 08
    11
    Good evening everyone!

    For all different and opposite points of view, the history of our Homeland / UNION needs to be studied and recognized with the greatest possible accuracy.
    At rumors, we definitely won’t restore the story, although sometimes there may be a grain of truth in them, but it takes a long time to look for it.
    Like last year I read topics about the number of prisoners in the USSR under Stalin and in general. Some official data on the number of convicts is on this site, or rather I do not remember the web page, but here is the data: http://www.chekist.ru/.

    On the other hand, those of you who confirm that "the winners write history" are right.

    In addition, I was somehow interested in the documents of the archives of the CPSU (b), KPPS and found very interesting authoritative articles by historians and party workers that after the ICG came to power, the employees of the KPPS Central Committee began to forge a lot of documents about REPRESSIONS, Deadlines and Executions (hundreds or thousands of pages ) in order to blacken the Communist Party as much as possible and to quickly achieve its prohibition and dissolution.
    As the author wrote (I can find links, copies probably remained), all these fakes can be determined, but there is MUCH to check in different parallel archives (in the Ministry of Railways for transporting a large number of people), applications for food and other things, but this again requires specialists and time.

    There were no repressed in our family, my native Subcarpathian Rus, our Red Army liberated in the fall of 1944. Only 2 uncles (after my mother) fought in the Czechoslovak Corps of General Ludwig Svoboda (1942-44). The elder uncle died near Kharkov (1943) and the younger was wounded in the Duklyansky Pass (1944-09) in Czechoslovakia. On the Dukliansky priesmyk, 52.000 German / defense and 85.000 Soviet + 6.500 Czechoslovak soldiers / attack from Poland (from the Eastern direction / from Subcarpathian Rus' units of the Red Army approached later) in total died in heavy battles. According to the plan, it was planned to take it in 3-5 days, but in fact the battles went on for almost 3 months, the Germans built fortified areas there with a depth of up to 30-50 km.
  • kostikgkn
    kostikgkn 25 August 2013 00: 39
    +7
    but something tells me that the concentration camps appeared in the United States. when they destroyed the Indians.
    1. builder
      builder 25 August 2013 00: 58
      +5
      The first concentration camps were invented and built by the British during the Boer War of 1899-1902, in which about 30000 Boer women and children died in two years.
      1. Raiven
        Raiven 25 August 2013 21: 10
        0
        not no no, in the USA there appeared earlier, Indian reservations are still those concentration camps
        1. builder
          builder 25 August 2013 21: 56
          0
          Reservation is not a concentration camp. This is a territory reserved for (formerly forcibly) settling the remnants of the indigenous population. The Indians control 225,4 thousand km² of US territory, which is 2,3% of the total country’s area (9 km²).
          1. Raiven
            Raiven 26 August 2013 20: 13
            0
            most of the land of which are deserts. Excellent land.
            In 1867, the Indian Resettlement Act appeared on the reservation. Native American reservations were often created in unsuitable areas for agriculture. Large reservations are located on the Colorado Plateau in Arizona (Navajo tribe), in the mountains in northern Utah, on the Great Plains in North Dakota and South Dakota, along the Missouri River (Sioux tribe), on an intermountain plateau in Wyoming and in foothills of the Cordillera in Montana (Cheyenne Indians). A large number of reservations are located along the border of the USA and Canada.

            In the 1800th century, there was a large-scale extermination of bison, weakening many tribes of the prairies. According to researchers, in 30 the number of bison was 40-18 million animals, and by the end of the century they were almost completely exterminated: less than one thousand remained [19] [20] [30]. American General Philip Sheridan wrote: “The bison hunters have done more in the past two years to solve the acute Indian problem than the entire regular army in the past 18 years. They destroy the material base of the Indians. Send them gunpowder and lead, if you like, and let them kill, flay the skins and sell them until they kill all the buffalo! ” Sheridan in the US Congress proposed the establishment of a special medal for hunters, emphasizing the importance of extermination of bison [XNUMX].

            Not the first concentration camp?
            1. builder
              builder 26 August 2013 20: 23
              0
              How else can you explain the difference between a reservation and a concentration camp?
              1. Raiven
                Raiven 26 August 2013 21: 17
                0
                No thanks

                And the reservations of the Indians in the USA can be equated with the concentration camps one way or another
                1. builder
                  builder 26 August 2013 23: 42
                  0
                  Equalize well.
            2. builder
              builder 26 August 2013 20: 43
              0
              Quote: Raiven
              Not the first concentration camp?
              No.
  • AvadraCedavra
    AvadraCedavra 25 August 2013 00: 54
    -5
    Quote: Be proud.
    Proud.

    Quote: Be proud.
    What is your statement based on?

    Since the entry into force of the Law of the RSFSR No. 1761-1 of October 18, 1991 "On the rehabilitation of victims of political repression" until 2004, over 630 thousand people were rehabilitated.
    Quote: Be proud.
    Exactly, indicative, open processes.

    Show trials, the sentences of which were passed even before they began. Window dressing.
    Quote: Be proud.
    Yes (aspirated), yes ...

    In December 1941, Colonel General Erich Göpner did not give a damn about the order “... to stay until the last ...”, retreated, and saved his 4th tank army from inevitable encirclement. For this, in early January 1942, Hitler removed him from his post with the wording: "... for cowardice and disobedience to orders ...", with dismissal from the army, deprivation of the right to wear military uniforms and awards, as well as without the right to pension.
    Göpner filed a lawsuit against the loss of his pension - and won the case. Maybe in the USSR maybe something like that?
    Quote: Be proud.
    And why are you referring to the decree of the Reich President of the German Empire of February 28, 1933, abolishing the civil rights of the Weimar constitution?

    According to this decree, the state could restrict freedom even without committing specific crimes by a person, if this serves the interests of “protecting the state”. A powerful tool for this restriction of freedom was the so-called “protective arrests”, in which a person was placed in a concentration camp for an indefinite period without trial or investigation.
    Quote: Be proud.
    Yes you CHO !?

    Judgments of the European Court of Human Rights adopted on complaints of events in Chechnya. Prejudice.
    1. Proud.
      Proud. 25 August 2013 05: 22
      +3
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      “On the rehabilitation of victims of political repression”

      And where in the law does it say that: "... 99% of criminal cases of that time had as the main evidence base - a frank confession of a suspect ..." By the way, 637.614 people were rehabilitated, and in the law there is a very sly figure, I quote : "... millions of people have become victims of the tyranny of the totalitarian state ..." In the law, writing lengthy numbers is incorrect.
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      Show trials, the sentences of which were passed even before they began. Window dressing.

      Is the presence of foreign correspondents also a show? Or were they bought?
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      Göpner filed a lawsuit against the loss of his pension - and won the case.

      von Belov writes: "It did not come to this, as Schmundt turned in and prevented the worst. Hoepner was not, as is often said, brought to trial by a military tribunal, and at the end of June he was dismissed from the ground forces and then lived as a retired colonel general Schmundt interpreted the Fuehrer's instruction that the Hoepner family should be provided for, entirely in favor of the Colonel-General. "Von Belov does not mention any court demonstrating the supposedly solid legal foundations of the Third Reich. Memoirs of Guderian : “... The 'purge' did not go without sharp protests. Especially serious consequences had the case of Colonel-General Gepner, whom Hitler deprived of the right to wear uniforms and orders, as well as the right to a pension and a service apartment.

      Gepner refused to recognize this illegal order, and the lawyers from the main command of the ground forces and the high command of the armed forces had the courage to report to Hitler that he had no right to make such decisions. Such measures in relation to Gepner can only be applied if a disciplinary case is instituted against him, but, according to lawyers, it should undoubtedly end in Gepner’s favor. Guderian says that the “Gepner case” was not considered in judicial, and administrative, disciplinary order in the system of the High Command of the Ground Forces and the High Command of the Wehrmacht. This is also indicated by von Belov. Incidentally, he mentions a specific person, Colonel Schmundt, who dealt with the case and turned the decision in a direction favorable to Gepner. He, according to Guderian, also participated in the consideration of his question.
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      Judgments of the European Court of Human Rights adopted on complaints of events in Chechnya

      Taking into account the one-sided attitude of "our" "human rights defenders", especially in the second Chechen campaign, and the extreme politicization on the part of the European Court in relation to fake claims, let me be skeptical about the impartiality of this organization. Although I also do not accept complete denial.
      1. builder
        builder 25 August 2013 12: 34
        +4
        Quote: AvadraCedavra
        Show trials, the sentences of which were passed even before they began. Window dressing.
        Sleight of hand and not any fraud. I got the word indicative and the whole meaning is lost. Processes were open.They were attended by the foreign press and diplomats. (Probably bought by the evil Stalin)
        By the way, 637.614 people were rehabilitated, and the law contains a very sly figure, I quote: "... millions of people have become victims of the tyranny of the totalitarian state ..."

        Well, and where are the millions of innocent victims of Stalinism. As the gentlemen from Memorial did not puff themselves up, they did not manage to scrape together with lists of all in a row "tens and hundreds of millions" of victims.
        1. poquello
          poquello 25 August 2013 20: 05
          +1


          Link on the topic here is an interesting go, there "Igor Pykhalov
          Why they were imprisoned under Stalin "

          "Let's still figure out why they were imprisoned under Stalin. And we will do it, relying not on the stories of interested persons, but on the basis of archival documents available to us today."

          http://lib.rus.ec/b/361152/read
    2. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 12: 13
      +4
      .... I do not agree about the first Chechen war, it’s already there that our "human rights activists" did what they wanted. Directly faced with the "deeds" of the "noblest" comrade. Kovalev. Once this bloke, with the help of his powers, stole a Czech from us for whom we had been running for a month, so then he came to the detachment to give lectures to us (although they say he was discouraged) ... he was almost torn to pieces, 4 undergrounds from the group and two generals somehow recaptured him from our special forces, the underground got into their faces, but the people were ashamed to beat the generals only squeezed a bit ...
      .... so that our "human rights activists" in the army love with fierce love, anyone is ready to shit on a pole! Welcome!!!
      1. Doctorleg
        Doctorleg 27 August 2013 11: 44
        0
        Thank God, the military does not have power. And then any upturned (((. And it seems without trial (this is the topic of discussion)
  • Guhbers
    Guhbers 25 August 2013 03: 24
    -5
    The author, judging by your article, a GULAG convict should have received a certain moral satisfaction, because he was convicted "according to the law" and "legal methods."

    Tell me, which is "better" - 4 years of a concentration camp for the Nazis or 25 "legal" years of a concentration camp for the Soviets?
    1. Andrey Skokovsky
      Andrey Skokovsky 25 August 2013 12: 35
      +4
      Quote: Guhbers
      The author, judging by your article, a GULAG convict should have received a certain moral satisfaction, because he was convicted "according to the law" and "legal methods."

      Tell me, which is "better" - 4 years of a concentration camp for the Nazis or 25 "legal" years of a concentration camp for the Soviets?



      please tell me a reference to the sentence of a German (fascist) court where a person would be sent to 4 years in a concentration camp, or to 25 years.

      it is necessary to compare between a sentence of 25 years in the USSR and indefinite imprisonment in a concentration camp in Germany - that’s exactly the way it is
      1. Guhbers
        Guhbers 25 August 2013 20: 55
        -1
        Indefinitely in a concentration camp is nothing more than hypothetical. In fact: he was taken prisoner / concentration camp at the beginning of the war (summer 41st) and released in May 45th - hence 4 years. And this is the "maximum" for a concentration camp. It is this "maximum" I compared with the "maximum" for the GULAG - 25 years.

        Yes, of course it was possible to die in a concentration camp within a month, but in the Gulag the situation was nothing more "pleasant" ...
        1. Rosomaha67
          Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 21: 03
          +1
          ..... yeah, the SS gruppenfuhrer brought out the gates of the camp after the end of the term and said, well, go pleasing yours before the Reich ...........
          1. Guhbers
            Guhbers 25 August 2013 21: 17
            0
            Well, if you think that the liberation from the concentration camp was just that, then it was apparently in a parallel universe ... Although this is your point of view wink
        2. Raiven
          Raiven 25 August 2013 21: 17
          0
          "In fact: I was taken prisoner / concentration camp at the beginning of the war (summer of 41) and was released in May 45 - hence 4 years" - if you live
        3. builder
          builder 25 August 2013 21: 59
          0
          Quote: Guhbers
          Yes, of course in the concentration camp it was possible to die within a month,

          Yes, they were invented for this.
    2. Raiven
      Raiven 25 August 2013 21: 12
      +1
      compared the prison and the "death machine"
      1. Guhbers
        Guhbers 26 August 2013 03: 03
        -1
        Nobody wants to discard these political clichés a la "concentration camp - death machines" and think with their heads over what it was like for the people who ended up in these camps?
        Those who were in the concentration camp were consciously or implicitly aware that they were captured by the enemy and should not expect anything good ... no one guarantees anything to the prisoner!
        But what kind of person convicted on denunciation, who is sent to rot in a "prison" for many, many years, not by some external enemy, but by his beloved Motherland in the person of the Communist Party, etc. Stalin !? When you won't prove anything to anyone, because everything has already been "decided"! And the whole "humanity" lies in the fact that you were not shot immediately, but "only" were given the opportunity to "redeem with labor" what you did not do well, or die with time! Or maybe someone can be "re-educated" when he is not guilty of anything?
        So, in my opinion - the Gulag is a terrible concentration camp (although much worse), because there they destroyed their own because of a oh policy ...
        And what do you think? What's better"?
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 26 August 2013 04: 10
          0
          Quote: Guhbers
          "But what kind of person convicted on denunciation, who is sent to rot in a" prison "for many, many years, is not some external enemy,
          and his beloved homeland in the person of the Communist Party and Comrade Stalin !?


          In one famous novel, to one young man on a false denunciation
          gave a life sentence.
          And this young man did not blame the beloved Republic and the Republicans, although he knew that he was accused and imprisoned unjustly,
          and then he learned the names of people involved in injustice.
          Every denunciation has an author.
          For example, the author of the denunciation to S.P. Korolev.
          From the memoirs of S.P. Korolev:
          “On June 27, 1938, I was arrested by the NKVD authorities on charges of participating in the anti-Soviet organization in which I worked, as I was told during the investigation. I was accused of sabotage in the field of new technology ... In the fall of that year, I was sentenced by the Supreme Collegium of the Supreme Court to imprisonment for a term of ten years. The testimony of the director of the research institute served as the basis. ”

          "... the reprisal was carried out purposefully and only against those employees of the institute who at the moment could interfere with Kostikov
          and his assistants in the implementation of their plans.
          Having got rid of the leadership of NII-3 A.G. Kostikov, as "the main director"
          this tragedy show, launched a "violent activity" to "expose" the arrested "enemies of the people", demanding from V.P. Glushko and S.P. Korolev,
          so that they speak at the meeting with the words of their conviction.
          And when they refused, he began to threaten:
          “You will regret it!”
          And he fulfilled his threat ... "
          The story of the arrest of S.P. Korolev.
          http://russianarmy.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=824
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 26 August 2013 04: 28
            +1
            Quote: Guhbers
            "... When you won't prove anything to anyone, because everything has already been" decided "!
            And the whole "humanity" is that you were not shot right away,
            and "only" made it possible to "redeem with labor" what you did not do well, or die with time! Or maybe someone can be "re-educated" when he is not guilty of anything?
            So, in my opinion - the Gulag is a terrible concentration camp
            (although much worse), because there they destroyed their own ...
            And what do you think? What's better"?"


            Defending himself, Korolev writes letters to the court.
            One of them is to Stalin. “My personal situation is so disgusting and terrible that I am forced to ask you for intercession and help ...”
            I wonder who wrote the prisoners of the Nazi concentration camps - Hitler? Pinochet? To Obama?

            Not all employees of the NKVD State Security Directorate were conscious criminals.
            Just from the end of June 1937 until mid-November 1938, several dubious decisions of the collegium of the People’s Commissariat and the plenums of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, overlapping each other, caused such a shaft of denunciationsthat conscientious workers simply did not have time to understand them, and the best reporting was given by unscrupulous, reducing the investigation to knocking out evidence confirming the denunciation.
            No wonder Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria, heading the People’s Commissariat 1938.11.17/XNUMX/XNUMX,
            one of the first orders banned the investigation of anonymous letters:
            this became an important brake on the Great Terror meat grinder.
            http://www.proza.ru/2013/01/18/1128

            And on September 27, 1938, the Supreme Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR pronounced the verdict: "Sentenced to 10 years in prison with a loss of rights for 5 years."
            April 21, 1939 Korolev falls on Kolyma.
            However, on June 10, 1940, the ITL term was reduced, and Korolev sent
            in the special prison of the NKVD UKB-29.
            http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/649468/

            Accepting the NKVD, Beria was faced with the fact: in his department were
            hundreds of arrested scientists and designers whose work is simply
            the country needs to be cut.

            As it is now fashionable to say - feel yourself Commissar!
            Before you lies the case. This person may be to blame, or may be innocent, but he is necessary. What to do? Write: “Free,” showing subordinates an example of lawlessness of the opposite property? Check things out?
            Yes, of course, but you have a closet in which 600 thousand cases.
            In fact, for each of them it is necessary to conduct a second investigation,
            but there are no frames. If we are talking about already convicted, we must also achieve the abolition of the sentence. Where to start? With scientists? With the military?
            And time goes on, people are sitting, the war is getting closer ...

            Beria quickly oriented. Already 10 January 1939, he signs an order to organize the Special Technical Bureau. The research topics are purely military: aircraft manufacturing, shipbuilding, shells, armor steel. From the experts of these industries, sitting in prisons, formed the whole group.

            When the opportunity turned up, Beria tried to free these people. For example, on May 25, 1940, the aircraft designer Tupolev was sentenced to 15 years in camps, and in the summer he was released under an amnesty.
            A large group of developers of military equipment released
            in the summer of 1941, another one - in 1943, the rest got freedom
            from 1944 to 1948 ... "
            http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/432101.html

            So S.P. Korolev proved his innocence, redeemed with his labor the embezzlement of state money, was awarded for outstanding success.
            But about the prisoners working at the secret factories "FAU" in Nazi Germany is not heard, they have sunk into the water.
            1. Guhbers
              Guhbers 26 August 2013 10: 24
              +1
              So what happens? While the "conscientious" NKVD officers pored over several cases, the "unscrupulous" officers scribbled thousands of accusatory cases, and what is most interesting - NOBODY questioned the activities of these "unscrupulous" employees wink

              Write: “Free,” showing subordinates an example of lawlessness of the opposite property? Check things out?
              - Yeah, good excuse ...

              Accepting the NKVD, Beria was faced with the fact: in his department were
              hundreds of arrested scientists and designers whose work is simply
              the country needs to be cut.
              - The worst thing about this is that the country and the leadership just needed these people only when this very “leadership” realized that it was losing the war! Why, having given them work, no one was afraid that these "spies and agents of Germany, Great Britain, etc." will not engage in sabotage! ?? Moreover, such a "chance" - the Germans are pushing the Red Army, maybe they should "help" and invent defective aircraft and other weapons systems? Yes, just all this leadership of the NKVD with their Beria understood perfectly well that all the "cases" of these designers and scientists were "sewn with white thread"! But no one justified them and did not let them go !!!
              the rest were freed from 1944 to 1948 ... "
              - Yeah ... just "great" !!! Especially considering the fact that they were convicted on phony cases!
              As the bestial attitude of the authorities towards people was in this country, so it remains now, only in a less aggressive form!
              But about the prisoners working at the secret factories "FAU" in Nazi Germany is not heard, they have sunk into the water.
              - You are comparing the wrong categories "a little" - don't you think? The war is merciless and you can only partially count on a good attitude in captivity ... The fact that you were taken prisoner and not shot on the spot is already a "mercy", and you can count on more, only this "more" is not guaranteed ... And it is possible to compare the prisoners in WW2 with the prisoners of the GULAG only if the entire government and the Communist Party are recognized as criminal structures in relation to the population of the USSR!
              1. Vladimir73
                Vladimir73 11 September 2013 11: 22
                0
                quote: Accepting the NKVD, Beria was faced with the fact: in his department were
                hundreds of arrested scientists and designers whose work is simply
                the country needs to be cut.

                - The worst thing about this is that the country and the leadership just needed these people only when this very “leadership” realized that it was losing the war! Why, having given them work, no one was afraid that these "spies and agents of Germany, Great Britain, etc." will not engage in sabotage! ?? Moreover, such a "chance" - the Germans are pushing the Red Army, maybe they should "help" and invent defective aircraft and other weapons systems?

                Do you even read what you write about !!!! The Queen was arrested in the 38th year, and the 2nd World War began only in the 39th (this is about the war). About the "sharashka" has been written and rewritten, and what is most interesting, many remember this time of their work with gratitude, tk. no intrigue, but just doing what they loved and FOR THE GOOD OF THE HOMELAND. According to denunciations of envious or narrow-minded people, there was a lot of things and not only during Stalin's time, but also earlier and later, and not only in our country. Remember the "witch hunt" in the USA, Europe ... the Inquisition .... oprichna ... The worst thing is that, judging by your comments, the NKVD, in the presence of a shortage of highly qualified personnel (civil war, the fight against banditry, internal enemies ( were also)) and in the presence of a threat of external aggression (they had been waiting for the war with Poland since 27, the British and the French did not hide their aspirations to crush the USSR until they got back on their feet) were forced to speed up their work, and at the same time THEY are the executioners of the people they are PROTECTED, and the fascist regime in Germany destroying in concentration camps and in forced (slave) labor "subhumans" (Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, etc.) did everything normally because "The war is merciless ...". belay
                1. Guhbers
                  Guhbers 15 September 2013 12: 16
                  0
                  Of course, "I read what I write about" :))
                  You pulled my phrase out of context - this time!
                  I wrote not only about Korolev - these are two!
                  And if we look at the biography of Korolev, then:
                  "September 25, 1938 Korolev was included in the list of persons subject to trial by the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR. In the list, he walked in the first (firing) category [5] [6]. The list was endorsed by Stalin, Molotov, Voroshilov and Kaganovich [7].
                  Korolev was convicted by the Military College of the Supreme Court of the USSR on September 27, 1938, the charge: art. 58-7, 11. Sentence: 10 years in prison, 5 years in rights. 10.06.1940/8/1944 the term was reduced to 18 years in labor camp (Sevzheldorlag), released in 1957. Completely rehabilitated on April 8, 9 [XNUMX] [XNUMX].
                  "(source: Vicky) - and these are three!
                  At that time, some <.....> could "anonymously denigrate" you, and you still have to prove with your sweat and blood that you are not an "enemy of the people", but a normal person! Just "wonderful philosophy" cultivated at the state level !!! am

                  We consider two specific historical cases - German concentration camps and the Soviet Gulag. I think it’s not worth it to go down to the Inquisition and the oprichnina :))

                  It is clear that in the NKVD there were both good people and complete people - whose crimes were also supported by the state. level !!!

                  And what about the fascists? With them, and so everything is clear ... I already explained above that after being captured you should not count on something good ... As if being captured, for example, to the same "Czechs", you could count on something- then good!? ...
          2. Guhbers
            Guhbers 26 August 2013 10: 01
            0
            Yes, Korolyov suspected this Kostikov of denunciations ... But what about this entire system of power, which so easily believes false denunciations! ??? Wasn't Korolyov "offended" at her? Or did he just omit this topic in his memoirs? Any normal person will have a question - why did they just believe the lousy "anonymous letter" !?
            And what happened to Mr. Kostikov? He was also "swept away" in 44! Only after sitting for a year, no corpus delicti was found in his actions and was released in 45 ...
  • Technologist
    Technologist 25 August 2013 05: 33
    +3
    Today's gorlopans blame Stalin for everything, almost in today's situation, but about the fact that the dilapidated country rose in a few years, and even before the war a lot was done - for some reason they are silent. It's disgusting!
  • GEO
    GEO 25 August 2013 07: 50
    +4
    article +
    about pidorgov liked
    ========================
    In the USA, less than a century ago, buggers “flew” for periods of up to 25 years into the most severe prisons. And today they cannot even be told that you do not love them. That is, you can not love redheads, communists and even people with sweaty palms - but you can’t pederasts.
    =========================
    the United States of Sodom and Gomor, well, of the Geyropa there laughing
  • Vasily Terkin
    Vasily Terkin 25 August 2013 07: 59
    -1
    the bulk of the case was imprisoned, but all sorts of intellectuals there, according to danos. and then they worked there in all sorts of libraries. paramedics, etc., the most clever ones, like Karalyov, were sent
    1. mole
      mole 25 August 2013 13: 25
      0
      Not "Karalyov", but Sergei Pavlovich Korolev! And by the way, give at least one quote about his disagreement with this fact? A person, unlike you, could analyze and He had more honesty!
      The efficiency in the "sharazhkin's" was many times greater than in the case of "freedom" in choosing one's future.
      Breaking spears is not clear what! there is OUR VICTORIES - which are for OUR ENEMIES - defeats, therefore, if YOU ARE OUR, then be proud of these VICTORIES and achievements, or look for minuses, collect dirt, call for a revision of history and turn OUR enemies into defeats for joy. Your right, now everything is possible, including unnatural!
  • labendik
    labendik 25 August 2013 13: 34
    -4
    Another verbiage of the vile Stalinist. What value did the "legal verdicts" of triplets have if the end result was the same in both cases. In the west, political camps, at least, fell into camps, etc. opponents, and in your camps there were mainly people who were socially close to you and those scoundrels who did this ...
    1. 7ydmco
      7ydmco 25 August 2013 18: 59
      0
      Vile Stalinist smile oh, what you thought up, talked about the law, but the liberal does not care about the law when they try to plant his brother. Democracy is smile
      1. labendik
        labendik 26 August 2013 13: 09
        0
        What did he understand?
        1. 7ydmco
          7ydmco 26 August 2013 20: 33
          0
          Yes, there will still be such meaningful questions? smile
  • AvadraCedavra
    AvadraCedavra 25 August 2013 15: 08
    -3
    Quote: Be proud.
    And where in the law, it is said that

    The Law of the Russian Federation “On the Rehabilitation of Victims of Political Repressions” dated October 18.10.1991, 1761 No. 1-XNUMX contains a wording that fully reflects both the content of this legislative act and further legal acts supplementing it: during the years of Soviet power, millions of people became victims of the arbitrariness of a totalitarian state, were subjected to repression for political and religious beliefs, on social, national and other grounds. Condemning the long-standing terror and mass persecution of its people as incompatible with the idea of ​​law and justice, the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation expresses deep sympathy for the victims of unjustified repressions, their families and friends, declares a steady desire to seek real guarantees of the rule of law and human rights.
    According to this legislative act (Art. 3) are subject to rehabilitation:
    convicted of state and other crimes;
    repressed by decision of the Cheka, GPU, OGPU, UNKVD, NKVD, MGB, Ministry of Internal Affairs, prosecutors, commissions, "special meetings", "twos", "triples" and other bodies;
    subjected to exile, expulsion, sent to special settlement, involvement in forced labor and other restrictions of rights and freedoms;
    unreasonably placed in psychiatric institutions for compulsory treatment;
    unjustifiably held criminally liable with a dismissed case on non-rehabilitating grounds;
    recognized as socially dangerous for political reasons and subjected to imprisonment, exile, expulsion without charge of a specific crime.
    For example, persons convicted under so-called counter-revolutionary articles, in other words, for political reasons, including “economic counter-revolutionaries” and “wreckers,” are subject to rehabilitation. After the death of I.V. Stalin, the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee requested data from the law enforcement bodies of the USSR on the number of people convicted of "counter-revolutionary crimes." A report submitted in February 1954 by USSR Prosecutor General Rudenko, Minister of the Interior Kruglov and Justice Minister Gorshenin, reported 3 convicts under counterrevolutionary articles from 777 to February 380, 1921, of which 1 were sentenced to capital punishment. 1954 people, 642 people were imprisoned in camps and prisons, and 980 people were sent to exile and deportation. About 2 million people were convicted by extrajudicial bodies (collegium of the OGPU, the “troika” and the Special Conference), and about 369 thousand people were convicted by the courts, military tribunals, the Special Collegium and the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court.
    According to the legislation of Russia, any person can apply for rehabilitation: personally rehabilitated, a member of his family, a public organization, or an outside party. Hence, such a figure of 637.614 people rehabilitated, simply no one cares about the victims of Stalinist repressions.
    1. sleepy
      sleepy 25 August 2013 15: 25
      +3
      But now in Russia it is possible to rehabilitate a relative-Vlasovite.

      “I heard that even the former Vlasovites who were exiled to the Krasnoyarsk Territory after the war are being rehabilitated.
      Our democracy has gone so far as to justify the traitors?
      V. Korozeev, Boguchansky district

      ... In total, in the special fund of the Central Internal Affairs Directorate there are about 6 thousand cases for people
      in the so-called Russian Liberation Army and exiled after the war
      to a settlement in the Krasnoyarsk Territory. Out of this category, an average of 100 people per year request rehabilitation.
      And in most cases, a positive decision is made. "
      http://hasid.livejournal.com/926283.html
    2. Proud.
      Proud. 26 August 2013 09: 50
      0
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      The law of the Russian Federation “On the rehabilitation of victims of political repression” of October 18.10.1991, 1761 No. 1-XNUMX

      The wording contains, and what? This law reflects the opinion of a certain group of people lobbying for the recognition of the Soviet State as a "criminal, totalitarian regime." Often repeated words, political and repression, dilute the wording of the law. question the work of such organizations as: the Cheka-Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Prosecutor's Office? Why on earth? These organizations are not state-owned? Are they. Let's question ALL the activities of the current Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Prosecutor's Office! Under the vague wording "repressed" (as illegal actions), any acts, including real crimes. Do you know that a thief in law convicted of criminal offense could receive an additional term in a penal colony under Article 58? Why? He refused to work and received an appendage for "sabotage." illegally repressed ", for" politics. "The company for" universal "rehabilitation, where they voted FOR, with whole lists, which began under Khrushchev and continued under Misha G., for example A clean policy, with definite goals, but not an act of necessary repentance aimed at a real search for truth.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 25 August 2013 15: 52
    +5
    Also add a spoonful of tar ...
    “It happened in 1978 or 1979 in the Talaya health resort, located about 150 km from Magadan. I arrived there from the Chukotka town of Pevek, where I worked and lived since 1960 ...
    ... - I, - Nazarov spoke, - have already "doubted" Solzhenitsyn's honesty. After all, as a former convict, he cannot but understand that the essence of these tales does not fit in with the daily routine of the Gulag. Having ten years of experience in camp life, he certainly knows that death row prisoners are not taken to the camps. And they carry out the sentence elsewhere. He, of course, knows that any camp is not only a place where convicts "drag out the deadline," but also an economic unit with its own work plan. Those. a camp is a production facility where convicts are workers, and bosses are production managers. And if somewhere "a plan is burning," the camp authorities can sometimes lengthen the working day of convicts. This kind of violation of the Gulag regime often happened. But to destroy their employees in companies is nonsense, for which the authorities themselves would certainly be severely punished. Until the execution. Indeed, in Stalin's times, discipline was asked not only from ordinary citizens, from the authorities the demand was even stricter. And if, knowing all this, Solzhenitsyn inserts fables into his book, then it is clear that this book was not written in order to tell the truth about the life of the Gulag. And for what - I have not yet understood. So let's continue ...
    ... - Yes, not my acquaintance, but the father of one of my acquaintances, the boys were imprisoned in the summer of 38 for anti-Soviet jokes. They gave him 3 of the year. And only 2 served - they released him ahead of schedule. But together with his family they sent for 101 km, it seems, to Tikhvin ...
    ... Now about the "spikelets". I have heard that for "stealing agricultural products" from the fields, you can "get a term", the amount of which depends on the amount stolen. But this is said about unharvested fields. And I myself went to collect the remains of potatoes from the harvested fields several times. And I am sure - to arrest people for collecting spikelets from a harvested collective farm field is bullshit ... "
    http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/321987.html
    1. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 25 August 2013 20: 09
      +1
      My mother, as a child, in winter quietly with other children in the snow searched for unclean spikelets. Caught - would not have ended in good. So if you do not know, do not idealize. Of course, someone was lucky, someone was shot for a little. You are trying to bring everything under one denominator - it will not work. The triples themselves were a way to quickly and firmly respond to violations of the law, but they, being in fact a violation of the legal proceedings, reached, and quite often, to lawlessness.
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 26 August 2013 00: 08
        +1
        Quote: Asan Ata
        "My mother is a child, in winter, on the sly with other children, they were looking for uncleaned ears of corn under the snow. If they caught it, it would not end well ..."


        And how would it end if they were caught?
        And if caught for picking mushrooms and berries?
        And if they were caught in the woods for collecting firewood?
        There were times in good old England when hands were chopped off for collecting brushwood.

        1926 Criminal Code of the RSFSR
        (as amended on March 1, 1957)
        (expired in connection with the adoption of the 1961 Penal Code)
        162. The secret theft of another's property (theft) entails:
        a) committed without the use of any technical means,
        for the first time and without collusion with other persons, -
        imprisonment or forced labor for up to three months;
        perfect under the same conditions but due to need and unemployment,
        in order to meet the minimum needs of his or her family,
        -
        correctional labor for up to three months;

        b) committed repeatedly, or in respect of property known to be necessary for the existence of the victim, -
        imprisonment for up to six months;

        c) committed with the use of technical means or repeatedly, or by prior conspiracy with other persons, and equally, although without the specified conditions, committed at stations, marinas, ships in wagons and hotels,
        - imprisonment for up to one year;

        d) committed by a private person from state and public warehouses, wagons, ships and other storages or in places of public use specified in the previous paragraph, by the use of technical means or by conspiracy with other persons, or repeatedly, as well as committed, even without these conditions by a person having special access to these warehouses or guarding them, or during a fire, flood or other public disaster, -
        imprisonment for up to two years or forced labor for up to one year;

        e) committed from state and public warehouses and storage facilities by a person who had special access to or protected them, by the use of technical means or repeatedly, or by conspiracy with other persons, as well as any theft from the same warehouses and storages, with especially large amounts of stolen goods, -
        imprisonment for up to five years;

        f) petty theft, regardless of its size, committed in an enterprise or institution - shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term of one year, if by its nature it does not entail a heavier punishment under the law.
        [Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR of August 16, 1940 ("News of the Soviets of Workers' Deputies of the USSR" No. 190 of August 17, 1940)].
        ______________
        See Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of January 10, 1955 "On criminal liability for petty theft of state and public property"
  • AvadraCedavra
    AvadraCedavra 25 August 2013 16: 22
    -4
    Quote: Be proud.
    Exponential processes


    Demonstrative lawsuits. In 1936, the first of the major trials of the leaders of the inner-party opposition took place. The closest associates of Lenin, G. Zinoviev, L. Kamenev, and others, appeared on the dock. They were accused not only of killing Kirov, but also of trying to kill Stalin and his closest associates, and also to overthrow the Soviet regime. The prosecutor L. Vyshinsky in his concluding remarks said: “I demand that I infuriate dogs to be shot - all to one!” The court granted this claim.
    In 1937, a second process took place, during which another group of leaders of the "Leninist Guard" was convicted. In the same year, by a decision of a closed court, a large group of senior officers was headed by Marshal M.N. Tukhachevsky.
    In March 1938, the third trial took place. The former head of government A. Rykov and the “party favorite” N. Bukharin were shot. Each of these processes caused a wave of reprisals against tens of thousands of people, primarily relatives and acquaintances, colleagues and neighbors of the repressed.
    Then the Secret Department was created in the NKVD, which was engaged in the destruction of political opponents of the government, who found themselves abroad. In August 1940, L. Trotsky was killed in Mexico. The victims of the Stalinist regime were many leaders of the Comintern and even the white movement abroad.
    There were not enough free places in prisons. A wide network of concentration camps began to form. (§ 26, History of Russia, XX - beginning of XXI century: Textbook for 9th grade of general education institutions / A. A. Danilov, L. G. Kosulina, A. V. Pyzhikov. - 10th ed. - M. : Enlightenment, 2003)
    The show trials, with their absurd accusations and no less absurd confessions by the accused, nevertheless performed a certain function. They had to prove that the closest circle of Lenin consisted almost without exception of traitors and conspirators who attempted his life, who were opposed by the bright image of Stalin, who exposed and accordingly punished all these enemies who were hiding under the guise of friends.
    The Moscow show trials made the world public aware: even the worst opponents of the Soviet state should finally admit that with regard to Stalin we are talking about the most brilliant state leader of all time after Lenin. Thus, the founders of the Soviet state, who had already lost power by the end of the 20s, served the last service of Stalin's tyranny before their death and contributed to its strengthening.
    1. 7ydmco
      7ydmco 25 August 2013 18: 55
      -1
      Ah, all the same, Comrade Stalin was right, oh, how right. If today, honestly judged all stolen and bought officials, then I think their number would be pulled by several GULAGs.
    2. sleepy
      sleepy 26 August 2013 01: 35
      0
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      "At the same time, the Secret Department in the NKVD was created, which was engaged in
      the destruction of political opponents of the government, who found themselves abroad.
      In August 1940, L. Trotsky was killed in Mexico. Many figures of the Comintern and even the white movement became victims of the Stalinist regime.
      abroad...".


      The assassination of Trotsky is attributed to Stalin, Beria, Sudoplatov.
      No one doubts this so much that he does not even ask for liquidation documents. Or it is believed that the documents are destroyed.

      “Stalin set before his special services the task of destroying the hated enemy. The notorious NKVD, which in those years successfully combined punitive functions within the country with covert operations abroad, accumulated considerable experience in performing tasks of this kind.
      In the 20s and 30s, hundreds of people who left the Soviet Union disappeared and were killed.
      or committed suicide under mysterious circumstances.
      A similar death overtook Trotsky’s personal secretary Erwin Wolf,
      but it was not proved that this was the work of the NKVD, although few doubted
      that the secret department of Stalin had a hand in this
      ."
      http://www.bibliotekar.ru/haron/102.htm

      BUT there is something illogical in Trotsky’s death at the hands of Ramon Mercador.
      They say about Ramon that he took an initial course of terrorism in Barcelona, ​​continued to improve his skills in one of the NKVD special schools, specializing in secret killings, sabotage, reconnaissance and guerrilla actions.
      That is, Ramon Mercador, aka Jacques Mornard, aka Frank Jackson
      was a super-pro-scout-illegal.
      But he didn’t kill right away, as the pros are supposed to, but only inflicted a mortal wound,
      Trotsky's cry, they ran away, a noise arose, twisted ...
      "Despite the hot day, on August 20, 1940, Frank Jackson appeared at Trotsky's villa in a tightly buttoned raincoat and hat. Under the cloak of a" family friend "there was a whole arsenal: an ice-climbing ice ax, a hammer and a large-caliber automatic pistol."
      http://www.bibliotekar.ru/haron/102.htm
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 26 August 2013 01: 42
        0
        "As soon as Trotsky went deep into reading, Jackson pulled out from under his cloak an ice ax
        and put him in the back of the head of the victim. Considering the blow is not reliable enough,
        the killer swung the ice ax once more, but Trotsky, miraculously conscious, grabbed his arm, forcing him to drop his weapon.
        Then, staggering, got out of the office into the living room.
        "Jackson!" He shouted. "Look what you've done!" The guards who came running to the scream knocked Jackson down, who was aiming at his victim with a pistol. "
        http://www.bibliotekar.ru/haron/102.htm

        For comparison, I give an excerpt from one fantastic book.
        "...the prince deserved such a fate. Perhaps he even deserves a harsher reprisal, for example, to be torn to pieces by the people.
        Already just for driving money that could be used to build a fleet for all subjects into some flying means for myself alone
        .
        Master Roshal went behind the lord’s back, jumped out of a wide sleeve
        a narrow blade in the palm.
        In cold blood and somehow really mundane,
        as if practicing an exercise on a mannequin, Roshal struck with a dagger
        along the thick red neck of Prince Sautar.
        “Here you have peace,” said Roshal and wiped the blade on the prince’s lace gate. -
        I killed my patron, in which I lived happily ever after.
        We have no choice now. Go ahead, master Svarog!
        -The owner ordered not to disturb until lunchtime, - Gor Roshal threw to the guards left by the prince outside the door of the hall. "

        That’s all - a teal with a razor blade coming up from behind, and Ramon Mercador, aka Frank Jackson, aka Jacques Mornard was exactly behind, and you can safely leave,
        saying something to the guards at the door.
        Instead, the pros Mercader takes out a hatchet, swings, hits not to death, once again fails ... Did he not practice courses?

        "Literally a few days after Trotsky's death, the wise man Bartolomé Costa-Amic, who knew Mercader personally, arrived in Mexico City; if he had arrived a few days earlier, he could theoretically reveal the legend."
        That is, the little guy Bartolom Costa Amik, who arrived a few days later, knew Mercader personally and could tell everyone about Mercader, because only the deaf and blind did not know about Trotsky’s murder.
        Why, in spite of all efforts, was the Mexican police able to establish Mercader’s identity only in 1946, although Mercader’s photo was often printed?

        From the deliberately ostentatious murder with an ax, I immediately recall the unsolved murder of Alexander Me.
        Again see the NKVD in this?
        http://www.alexandrmen.ru/books/bychkov/bych01.html
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 26 August 2013 02: 01
          0
          "Recently a book by Mikhail Nikiforovich Poltoranin was published
          "Power in TNT Equivalent". We advise the reader to purchase it whenever possible, although the circulation is too small: only 10 thousand copies.
          We publish one chapter of the book (with minor abbreviations), which tells about the activities of L.D. Trotsky. You will be amazed
          similarities between his policies and those of modern Democrats. "
          http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.pravnabat.ru/sto
          ry / sovremennye-demokraty-prodolzhateli-dela-trotskogo% 20

          “After the February Revolution in our country, B'nai-Brit assembled a large team headed by Trotsky, put them on a steamer and, having supplied them with a large sum, sent them to Russia:“ Power is lying there on the ground, you have to pick it up.
          And concentrate in the hands of American henchmen. "US President Woodrow Wilson himself gave Trotsky an American passport, it was accompanied by a visa to enter Russia and a British transit visa. The Americans were in a hurry to send Lev Davidovich's group, because they had information from their ambassadors from Europe: Germany prepares a Bolshevik landing in Russia led by Lenin. ”So enemies Lenin and Trotsky found themselves at the same time in the same place, with the same task, but aimed at different results.
          Trotsky could boldly speak of himself in the words of Pyotr Verkhovensky from Dostoevsky's “Demons”: “I am a fraud, not a socialist.” Lenin entered into an alliance with him, because behind the back of the "Judas" there was a lot of American money.
          Unlike the Russian Bolsheviks Trotsky in the concept of "world revolution" invested the creation of the United States of the World - in the current terminology of the Planetary Oligarchy, where our country was assigned a place as a supplier of resources and slave power. "

          But Trotsky did not calculate his strength and fled.
          In the USA they did not accept him - Americans do not like losers.
          But this loser knew a lot.
          His death was attributed to Stalin, as the USSR was blamed for the death of Kennedy.
          Maul Oswald was recruited by the KGB.
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 26 August 2013 02: 11
            +1
            "He insisted on the need for sacrifice for the sake of the world revolution,
            for the creation of the United States of the World (stenographers recorded every word, typists printed in triplicate - one for the archive, for the story). The untrained peasants were pushed into battle against the same peasants, and behind Latvians organized detachments with machine guns.
            Many, dropping weapons, fled before the battles.
            Then hostages were taken from their villages and placed in concentration camps.
            After a certain time they were shot.
            The concentration camp is the brainchild of Trotsky.
            In hastily shelved shelves that did not fulfill the task, every tenth was pulled out of action and also shot. The destruction of the Russians was put on stream. One can imagine what would happen to the country, if Trotsky and his team were at the top of power.

            Trotsky loved to live in a big way. His mobile fortress, called the Train of the Pre-Military Council, went down in history. Later, Lev Davidovich himself wrote about the “train”, omitting shocking details.
            The main content of the "train" was a detachment of thousands of punitive fighters
            in black leather jackets with Mausers and machine guns.
            The basic structure of punishers is Latvians.
            They were well paid. The commanding officers of Peterson and Ciccolini were equated with the division commanders, the commandants - with the regiment commanders, the soldiers also received at the level of military commanders.
            Typhoid and hunger walked in the country, from the "train", but from the punishers it was full.

            At the meetings organized by the commissars, they dragged portraits of Trotsky and extolled his merits. (And a few years later, already without commissar-entertainers, the crowds stood in the dark evenings in the squares with the same portraits crossed out crosswise and, moving the torches up and down, ominously chanted: “Death! Death! Death!”).
            Trotsky believed that Lenin took his place.
            After the shot, Fanny Kaplan, dropping things, Lev Davidovich immediately rushed to Moscow with the intention of leading the country in the event of the death of the leader. This and the hasty liquidation of Fanny Kaplan, who hid the ends in the water, aroused suspicion of Trotsky's assistants being involved in the assassination attempt. Lenin, and with him other members of "his guard" began to seriously fear the "New Napoleon". They murmured, but that nimble guy had it all already. "
            http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.pravnabat.ru/sto
            ry / sovremennye-demokraty-prodolzhateli-dela-trotskogo% 20
            1. sleepy
              sleepy 26 August 2013 02: 26
              +1
              "NEP was lucky with its assessments in our country. For decades we walked under the banner of Lenin, and NEP had to be extolled as a brilliant invention of the leader. Then the Kremlin started talking about a market panacea, and NEP turned up at its arm as a positive example.
              Besides there was a good reason to commemorate Stalin
              for his unwillingness to give people economic freedom
              .

              “The products of the socialist sector, as a rule, did not go directly
              to consumers, but fell into the hands of the NEPman, who sold it
              with a margin of several hundred percent. As a result of such speculation and the expansion of the black market, the undermining of nationalized sectors of the economy, large private capital appeared in the country.
              Workers were no longer able to pay high rents
              for the good apartments to which they were relocated after the revolution, and gradually returned to the slums
              "(A. Barmin." Trotsky's Falcons ").

              Do you see no similarities with how it all began under Gorbachev-Yeltsin? First, economic reforms of the 88th - pumping of state resources
              into the pockets of private traders, which allowed dealers to acquire large capital. Then the boundless liberalization of foreign economic
              and the banking sector. And then the distribution of property to “their own”, i.e., privatization with the unhindered transfer of assets from our country.

              NEP authorized the private production and sale of alcohol. Up to ten percent of peasant farms switched to super profitable business. Up to 100 million pounds of bread were transferred to the production of alcoholic potions per year. Russia was immersed in a drunken state.
              Casinos opened in Moscow, prostitutes roamed in packs. In restaurants, Nepmans walked with officials. Corruption began to gain momentum. The courts heard the same cases: bribes, bribes, bribes.
              Without a bribe, it was impossible to rent land, a factory, or a store.

              Trotsky all the time insisted on luring foreigners into Russia: civilization, money. Even he undertook to lead the Main Concession Committee. At the request of the concessionaires, they were allocated millions of hectares of forest for deforestation (one “Japanese Forest Syndicate” received
              1 hectares in the Amur, Okhotsk and Ust-Kamchatsk regions)
              and the best mineral deposits.
              123 companies from the USA, England, Germany, France settled in Russia.

              There were terrible rumors about Russia concentration camps in the north of the European part of the country, created by the Americans, the British
              and the French
              . These gentlemen climbed into our country without demand and began to establish fascist orders. 52 thousand people were placed in the camps to harvest and send forests to the West. They were forced to work from 5 a.m. to 11 a.m., giving each day 200 grams of biscuits, 175 grams of canned food, 42 grams of rice and 10 grams of salt.
              Got the darkest fame Mudyugsky concentration camp in the White Sea, where "civilized employers" brought Russian people to death with hard labor and bullying
              (the temperature in the huts was not higher than minus 8 degrees).
              By 1920, about a hundred mass graves appeared in the Mudyug concentration camp.

              From Primorye and Amur region, the Americans exported forest, furs, gold. They burned 25 villages and villages, and the inhabitants were driven to work in a concentration camp. "

              And where was Stalin at that time?
              1. sleepy
                sleepy 26 August 2013 02: 38
                +2
                “Stalin succeeded in expanding the numerical strength of the Central Committee and bringing in many of his people there. The self-confident Trotsky and his comrades watched the fuss from above, as they called the“ gray spot of the party ”.
                And they did not notice how they began to constitute a minority in the Central Committee. Koba beat them.
                The basic principle of Lenin, Trotsky and the whole team is terror against the Russian nation, and Stalin gave it an international character, directing the ax's edge primarily against the instigators of anti-Russian terror themselves. Therefore, the descendants of these instigators - direct and ideological, hate Stalin so much.
                Corrupt officials with parasite speculators went through the stage. Their descendants also have a gnash of teeth at the mention of Koba.

                Bottom line: Trotsky and all his proteges were removed from the control levers - the country began to restore its sovereignty.
                The hard way of industrialization, creating a scientific base and putting things in order, it began to get out of ruin, turning over time
                into a superpower.
                Stalin pulled out a cash cow - Russia - from the ticks of the West, and they tried to strangle our state right away with blockades. They banned firms from buying furs, gold, and minerals from the Soviet Union.
                Even for the supply of timber, this super-liquid product, an embargo was imposed.
                And the country needed a currency for industrialization.
                The West agreed to take only wheat from us, hoping to call
                food crisis. And later, the West intensified
                Hitler in the USSR.

                Such is it the face of the "civilized" world, under which they always want to lay us down.

                An objective assessment of the departed head of state gives only
                state of the state, which he leaves behind.
                To look at the state of the state after Stalin is his assessment.
                To look at the state of the state after Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev is his assessment.
                To look at the state of the country after Yeltsin is also an assessment, it cannot be more fair. "
                http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.pravnabat.ru/sto
                ry / sovremennye-demokraty-prodolzhateli-dela-trotskogo% 20
    3. Proud.
      Proud. 26 August 2013 10: 19
      0
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      Demonstrative lawsuits.
      Do you have evidence that Zinoviev and Kamenev were innocent? Provide. That's it, Vyshinsky is the prosecutor. And with what words he demanded, this is a moral and ethical component. This is for another topic.
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      repressed a large group of senior officers led by Marshal M.N. Tukhachevsky.

      Again, this vague wording - "repressed". Do you have evidence of their innocence? Provide. Why crush water in a mortar?
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      Then the Secret Department was created in the NKVD, which was engaged in the destruction of political opponents of the government, who found themselves abroad. In August 1940, L. Trotsky was killed in Mexico. The victims of the Stalinist regime were many leaders of the Comintern and even the white movement abroad.
      Yeah ... They were all fluffy, transferred money to the fund of the Soviet State and "threw" the USSR embassies abroad with flowers and greeting cards.
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      There were not enough free places in prisons. A wide network of concentration camps began to form. (§ 26, History of Russia, XX - beginning of XXI century: Textbook for 9th grade of general education institutions / A. A. Danilov, L. G. Kosulina, A. V. Pyzhikov. - 10th ed. - M. : Enlightenment, 2003)

      Yes. YES! One half of the country's population was sitting, the other was guarding them. They heard. It was in these biased textbooks, "true, DOGMIC", "Russian history". Do not give as an example. Do not.
      Quote: AvadraCedavra
      with their absurd accusations and no less absurd confessions of the accused

      Well, of course, you have to believe in something like that unconditionally. However .., "There are many things in the world, friend Horatio, that our wise men never dreamed of."
  • kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 25 August 2013 16: 34
    +5
    You drew attention to the enemies of Russia, who are very subtly trying to bring to our minds about the equality of the Stalin and Hitler camps. And how they pitifully lament for the dead in the ITL, and now (given the current level of the Federal Penitentiary Service) prisoners do not die. But forgive me, Stalin did not drove by thousands into gas chambers and crematoriums. The article is correct, and those who criticize it are simply illiterate provocateurs singing from someone else's voice.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 25 August 2013 17: 01
    -5
    What is short and clear! In general, excluding the "kinks", these punitive systems were built in both countries. It is a pity that the experience "The woods are chopped, the chips are flying!" carried the people of the USSR.
    1. 7ydmco
      7ydmco 25 August 2013 18: 52
      +1
      Well, would you do without landings and executions? Just where all this (for the most part) pus formed in the turmoil was not tell me?
  • 7ydmco
    7ydmco 25 August 2013 18: 43
    0
    Quote: Greyfox
    A specimen of a moron. Everybody was attracted by both gays and liberals. For example, in 1936, where did the Koreans defect from? Huh?
    As I said above, such a story is not needed, they have their own ... Just like the gyrus in the brain, one and a straight line.


    smile Wow, another internet hero. What a brave you are on the Internet, well, probably the same in real life? True, then it is not entirely clear how to this day they managed to survive and not lose their health? Well, miracles do happen, right? smile
    On the topic, if you do not know who is designated by the proud people, then use Yandex, he will tell.
  • Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 25 August 2013 20: 26
    +1
    Quote: OZI-2013
    ......... Unfortunately, small countries can only choose between a bad option and a very bad one.
    So you can start blaming me: smile: but just before that take the trouble to read a little about the history of the Romanian states (Moldova and Muntenia).
    Good luck!

    .... what hit in the "top ten" with "Romanian crimes", after all, according to your statement, Moldova is a Romanian state ??????? laughing laughing laughing
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 25 August 2013 21: 16
    +2
    something like that among the liberals, everything turns out wrong. who sat means honest and offended, and those who did not sit those bastards. that's just why the heirs of these poor and unhappy in chocolate. and the rest is in shit. maybe they planted their ancestors?
  • raptor1975
    raptor1975 25 August 2013 21: 24
    +4
    Great article, Respect to the author! Indeed, many do not understand: what is a concentration camp and what is ITL
  • Nu daaaa ...
    Nu daaaa ... 26 August 2013 00: 59
    +1
    Quote: sleepy
    And how would it end if they were caught?


    “The Law of Three Spikelets” (also the law of “seven eighths”, “the law of the seventh to eighth”, “the law of five spikelets”, decree “7-8”) - the name of the Decree of the Central Executive Committee and Council of People's Commissars of the USSR of August 7, adopted in historical journalism 1932 "On the protection of property of state enterprises, collective farms and cooperation and the strengthening of public (socialist) property", adopted on the initiative of the Secretary General of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, I. Stalin

    For the theft of collective farm and cooperative property, theft of goods on railway and water transport, the law provided for the execution with confiscation of property, which, under extenuating circumstances, could be replaced by imprisonment for a period of at least 10 years with confiscation of property. As "a measure of judicial repression in cases of protecting collective farms and collective farmers from violence and threats from" kulak elements, "imprisonment for a term of 5 to 10 years was provided. Those convicted under this law were not subject to amnesty.
    1. sleepy
      sleepy 26 August 2013 03: 00
      +2
      Quote: Nu daaaa ...
      "..." The Law of Three Spikelets. "


      Stalin - Kaganovich, Molotov
      July 20 1932 city
      Kaganovich, Molotov.
      "... Lately,
      At first, theft of goods on rail transport (plundered by dozens
      mil. rubles), secondly, the theft of cooperative and collective farm property
      .
      Theft is organized mainly by fists (dispossessed) and other antisocial elements trying to undermine our new system.
      By law, these gentlemen are regarded as ordinary thieves, receive
      two or three years in prison (formally!), but in fact, after 6-8 months they amnesty.
      A similar regime with regard to these gentlemen, which cannot be called socialist, only encourages them in essence to real counter-revolutionary "work." Tolerate further such a situation is unthinkable. I propose to issue a law (to remove or repeal existing laws),
      a) equated railway freight, collective farm property and cooperative property in its importance with state property;
      b) punishable for the theft (theft) of property of the indicated categories for at least ten years of imprisonment, and as a rule - the death penalty;
      at) canceled the application of amnesty to criminals of such "professions."
      Without these (and similar) draconian socialist measures it is impossible to establish a new social discipline, and without such discipline it is impossible to defend and strengthen our new system.
      I think that we shouldn't hesitate to pass such a law. "
      - From the correspondence of Stalin and Kaganovich. 20.07.19322/XNUMX/XNUMX

      This Act was originally intended to be against
      "theft of cooperative and collective farm property by kulaks (dispossessed) and other antisocial elements."
      .

      In practice, it was the use of this Law for personal accounts.
      "After getting acquainted with the practice of applying the Law, the Resolution of the Politburo of February 1, 1933 and the Resolution of the CEC Presidium of March 27, 1933 issued on its basis, which required
      to stop the practice of bringing to court, according to the law of August 7, “persons guilty of petty theft of public property,
      or workers who have stolen out of need, by unconsciousness
      and in the presence of other extenuating circumstances
      ».
      The Instruction of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR from May 8, 1933 No. P-6028 was published
      "On the cessation of the use of mass evictions and acute forms of repression in the countryside," clearly delineating the powers of the repressive bodies. "

      “Everyone is arrested whoever is not lazy and who, in fact, has no right to arrest. It is not surprising that with such a rampant practice of arrests, the bodies that have the right to arrest, including the OGPU, and especially the police, lose their sense of proportion and they often make arrests without any reason, acting according to the rule: "first arrest, and then sort it out."

      On July 20, 1936, the Prosecutor General of the USSR A. Ya. Vyshinsky prepared a memorandum addressed to Stalin, Molotov and Kalinin that the review of cases on the basis of the decision of January 16, 1936 was completed.
      In total, more than 115 thousand cases were checked, and in more than 91 thousand cases, the application of the law of August 7 was recognized as incorrect, and on the basis of this, 37 people were still released.

      In total, according to some information, according to the law for 1932-1939. 183 people were convicted[5].

      As of January 1, 1939, there were 27 persons convicted under the law of August 313, 7 in the ITL of the NKVD of the USSR [6]

      The law became invalid in connection with the adoption of the decree "On criminal liability for theft of state and public property", issued on June 4, 1947. "
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 26 August 2013 06: 26
    +1
    I’ll add another spoon. Do not read links, do not want. Legends are crumbling ...
    Quote: ImPerts
    ... Now about the "spikelets". I have heard that for "stealing agricultural products" from the fields, you can "get a term", the amount of which depends on the amount stolen. But this is said about unharvested fields. And I myself went to collect the remains of potatoes from the harvested fields several times. And I am sure - to arrest people for collecting spikelets from a harvested collective farm field is bullshit ... "http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/321987.html

    ... - You know exactly what kind of anecdote they gave 3 of the year? - asked Romanov. - And then Solzhenitsyn has other information: for a joke - 10 or more; for absenteeism or being late for work - from 5 to 10 years; for spikelets collected on a harvested collective farm field - 10 years. What do you say to that?

    - For the jokes of 3 of the year - I know that for sure. And about punishments for being late and absenteeism - your laureate is lying like a gray gelding. I myself had two convictions under this decree, about which there are corresponding entries in the workbook ...
    “Aw, yes the Proletariat! .. Aw, yes, hustler! .. I didn’t expect it! ..” said Semyon Nikiforovich.
    - Fine, fine! - said Romanov. - Let the person confess ...
    I had to confess.
    - The war is over. Life has become easier. And I began to celebrate the pay with drinks. But where the boys have drinks, there are adventures. In general, for two delays - 25 and 30 minutes, I got off with reprimands. And when I was late for an hour and a half, I received 3-15: 3% of my earnings were deducted from me for 15 months. I just settled - I got it again. Now it's 4-20. Well, the third time I would have received a punishment of 6-25. But "this cup passed me." I realized that work is sacred. Of course, then it seemed to me that the punishments were too severe - after all, the war had already ended ...
    1. 31231
      31231 26 August 2013 06: 58
      0
      Vladimir Karpov, a hero of the Soviet Union, a front-line reconnaissance scout who passed the penal company, in his memoirs, also talks about three received for an anecdote at the school. Well, nothing, he asked to the front and washed away the punishment with blood and even became a hero. But he did not bliss like all these Solzhenitsyn intellectuals. That's what a real man means.
      1. Doctorleg
        Doctorleg 27 August 2013 12: 04
        -2
        That's right! For a joke - three rubles! And dare not complain. If there were such a law, half of the people here were already sitting - the current system is criticized
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 27 August 2013 15: 26
          0
          A joke with criticism has little in common.
          In the USSR, at party meetings openly criticized - it was in the order of things.
          And for the political joke, the narrator should be responsible.
          1. Doctorleg
            Doctorleg 28 August 2013 08: 58
            +1
            Sorry, I don’t know how old you are and in what years you attended party meetings. It was possible to criticize only certain things. A little more, you go against the line of the party, slander, etc. Well, for this they didn’t give a treshka under Stalin, and later - a reprimand or an exception. And by the way, why should a storyteller be held accountable for a political joke? It seemed strange to me why the system in the USSR was called the most fair, correct, and therefore strong, and at the same time there was an article for defamation — that slander could undermine such a strong system? After all, people live in it and must see the real state of things. And on the other hand, in the damned West, where everything is bad, people are being exploited, the system is shaky and must certainly be replaced by another, more just such an article was not - were not afraid of slander? But the newspapers came out communist, sponsored by us. Yes, and for jokes did not plant.
            1. sleepy
              sleepy 4 September 2013 02: 32
              0
              Quote: DoctorOleg
              “Only certain things could be criticized.
              A little more - you are going against the party line, slander, etc ... ".


              It is true that criticism was considered slander against the party line.
              and expelled from the party.
              But the cases described in the film "Emergency of the District Scale", when criticism were unexpectedly given a positive assessment, were not excluded.

              "And by the way, why should the narrator be held responsible for a political anecdote? ... in the damned West ... - were they not afraid of slander? ..
              And they did not imprison for jokes. "


              This is a topic for a detailed study of why political jokes in the press are possible in the West or why a mannequin representing the president (company) can be beaten in Japan.
              In a nutshell - in tsarist Russia for epitaph (analogue of a joke) -
              challenged to a duel.