Military Review

US Secretary of State about the death of the USSR: "The main thing, there were traitors"

188
US Secretary of State about the death of the USSR: "The main thing, there were traitors"“One of the memories that will remain with me until the end of my life is the tears of my father, who smoked in the night on the balcony and wiped his eyes with his palm. 1991, the after-match orgy, has just been banned by the Communist Party on TV by Yeltsin. Batya, an ordinary member of the CPSU, the material of Gorbachev, Boris Nikolayevich, party functionaries of all the Union republics and asked the same question, not addressed to anyone: “For what ?! I honestly lived, did not steal, did not kill, fed the family, raised my son, loved and love my wife and loved ones. He believed in Lenin and Stalin, pulled out a "personality cult", doubted something, but we all went forward - with friends and surrounded by enemies! All in vain, all in vain, wrong? "


And neither he, nor I, nor the millions of people who inhabited the Soviet Union, nor the millions of people in other countries, even seeing that in an enormous state some strange, but, as usual, great processes occur, they could not assume that December of the same year it will cease to exist. Dad - a former military man who stood guard over the frontiers of a mighty power, by that time would have come to his senses and yet another blow to the past and the present, more crushing force, he would accept without taking horse doses of sedative. ”

These pressing lines of one of his regular authors, Oleg Klimov, are published in the latest issue of the newspaper Belarus Today. They are about today's black jubilee in our stories - 20-th anniversary of the death of a great state, the Soviet Union.

8 December 1991 in the government estate of Viskuli, that in the Belarusian Belovezhskaya Pushcha, the President of the RSFSR Boris Yeltsin, the President of Ukraine Leonid Kravchuk and the Head of the Supreme Council of Belarus Stanislav Shushkevich signed the document entitled “Agreement on the establishment of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS)”, which went down in history as the Bialowieza Agreement. Its preamble read: "The USSR as a subject of international law and geopolitical reality ceases to exist."

Immediately after signing the document, Yeltsin telephoned US President George W. Bush and reported what had happened (which, by the way, put him in an awkward position). Then the signers "smartly sprinkled" the event and went home: on arrival in Moscow, Yeltsin was so drunk that he was literally carried out of the plane. A few days later, the Bialowieza Agreement was ratified by the VOTING parliaments of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus: in the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR voted against either 5, or 6 of two and a half hundred deputies; in the Ukrainian parliament there were even fewer opponents of the document, well, only one Alexander Lukashenko voted against in the Belarusian Supreme Soviet. It should be remembered that the absolute majority in all three parliaments belonged to the Communists.

Today they are trying to convince us that the death of the USSR at the time of the signing of the Belovezhsky Agreement was already predetermined. “One can argue whether the collapse of the USSR was a geopolitical catastrophe caused by the insidious intrigues of the enemy, or a boon to most of the former republics of the Union,” read Vedomosti in today's editorial. - However, the leaders of the three Slavic republics only recorded the death of the state from the rapidly progressing paralysis and the inoperability of bureaucratic structures. Neither the army, nor the KGB, nor the leaders of other republics of the USSR or republican communist parties tried to actively counteract the breakup of the Union. ”

As you can see, in this view there is no place for the tears of Father Oleg Klimov. “It’s possible to argue,” they assure us, but not to lament, all the more so since the collapse of the USSR can be considered “good for most of the former republics of the Union.” It would be true, however, to know the list of these “benefactors”: are there, for example, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Moldavia, the same Georgia? Or any other fragments of the former USSR can be safely recommended to the compilers of international poverty ratings? ..

But the peoples of the USSR are still not so coolly remembered today about the demise of the USSR. For example, the Belarusian historian, political scientist and publicist Nikolai Malishevsky writes today on the pages of the REGNUM news agency:

“This act (the so-called Belovezhsky agreement. - Approx. KM.RU), which recorded the collapse of the Soviet Union, still raises many questions. The fact is that even March 17 of the same year, during the referendum on the question “to be or not to be the USSR”, the overwhelming majority of the population (more than 80%) supported the preservation of the Union.

It should be noted that the very formulation of the question of the necessity of the Union was purely provocative. Destroyers of the state already knew that the majority of the population would unequivocally support the existence of the USSR, therefore it was necessary for them to at least indicate that "a similar problem exists." Thus, public opinion was directed in the right direction, which was also facilitated by the total brainwashing through the media.

But not only was the opinion of the people completely ignored, but the constitutional order of secession from the Union was violated. In accordance with the legislation were required: the holding of a referendum as an application for withdrawal; border, property, army, etc. negotiations over 5 years; in the case of a mutually acceptable outcome of negotiations - the second referendum. The signatories themselves stated in a statement that they “had the right” to dissolve the USSR, since the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR were the founders of the Union, who signed the treaty in 1922. However, among the founders was the Transcaucasian Federation, which then included Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Consequently, at least for the appearance of legitimacy, it was necessary to invite representatives of these republics ...

Immediately after the Viskulyov gatherings, accompanied by abundant libations, the warm company declared in Minsk that “the Soviet Union no longer exists” and that they “formed the Commonwealth of Independent States”, and Mikhail Gorbachev announced that he would cease his functions as the President of the USSR and signed a decree on the addition from the powers of the Supreme Commander. An American journalist (a few years later he will be one of the US Assistant Secretary of State Madeleine Albright) Strobe Talbot writes in his book At the highest level: the backstage story of the end of the Cold War, “rumors reached US officials that when Yeltsin returned to Moscow (from Minsk) a day after the signing of the agreement on the Commonwealth, he was so drunk that he had to be taken out of the plane, and the bodyguards used brute force to prevent photographers from taking pictures. ”

12 December 1991 of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR ratified the Belovezhskaya Agreement (“for” - 285 deputies, “against” - 5, abstained - 6), adopted a decree on the denunciation of the USSR Treaty on Education 30 of December 1922 of the year, and decree about secession from the USSR (“for” - 161 deputy, “against” - 3, abstained - 9, and in total there were 247 deputies).

In parallel with the death of the Soviet Union, which was falling apart into pieces as a result of deliberate actions from the outside and from within, there was a process of formation (of course, for “fighting the system”) of “democratic forces” in the new independent states. The democrats who seized power in the center looked at what was happening with a condescending smile, actually encouraging what was happening, quickly turning from the pillars of the system into “fighters” with it. Psychologists have long noted that a person brought up on stereotypes and “cultural truisms” is very vulnerable: once in the field of dissonant information, the stereotype tends not to collapse, but to roll over, i.e. it remains, changing only the valence (emotional sign); unconditionally good turns into unconditionally bad and vice versa. It only played into the hands of the newly-minted "democrats" of nationalist and frank fascist victory.

To seize power, these "principled" people were ready for anything. The Union still existed, and on its outskirts, hysteria grew and spread, swelling with all sorts of “national” leaders who, waving their arms, shouted from the balconies and steps of the party committees and Supreme Soviets of the former Soviet republics about “freedom” and “democracy”. It was not for nothing that Machiavelli, five centuries ago, noted that “the word“ freedom ”always serves as a pretext for rebellion,” therefore, of course, none of these “freedom-lovers” even remembered that even the church does not speak of human freedom, since There is no "pure". About such "freedom" ("equality and fraternity") speak only revolutionary-minded demagogues and mentally ill.

Printed on by the Academy of Social Sciences, through the Department of History of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, etc., structures under the paternal supervision of the chief ideologist of the Central Committee of the CPSU and at the same time “foreman of perestroika” A. Yakovlev, nationalist “heralds of freedom”, yesterday yesterday licked the seats of the Center’s representatives, who taught them to read and write and replaced donkeys with them to cosmodromes and the Academy of Sciences, they suddenly thought of themselves as the bearers of some kind of "democratic mission."

But after a very short period of time, all of them, barely trying to put into practice the basic principles and postulates advanced by democracy, immediately dropped them, leaving only the name "democracy". The fact is that even people like Zviad Gamsakhurdia (then Saakashvili) who had drawn their republic into the bloody conflicts eventually realized that true democracy is possible only where the economy is able to replace politics and provide the people with a normal, calm and full life. And in order to put this into practice, the fascist “democrats” rushed to power did not have the necessary knowledge and skills or opportunities.

In order to fill the ideological vacuum that arose after the rapid decomposition of the supranational idea (more precisely, so that some of the already formed "sovereign states" would not begin, in turn, to be divided into tens and hundreds more "sovereign"), as well as In order to actually stay in power, self-styled "democrats" needed some instantly acting ideology. And the only such ideology was and remains nationalism. Its manifestations in the USSR have long been strongly encouraged by the West, since any nationalism within the state weakens superethnic and civilizational ties.

The idea of ​​nationalism is very simple. For the consolidation of society and its subsequent consolidation around the leader, a visible enemy is needed. It is the existence of the enemy that allows the group that exploits the national idea to exist and hold power. Adolf Hitler, the greatest nationalist of “all times and peoples,” wrote in his book “My Struggle”: “The masses consist not of professors and diplomats. A small amount of abstract knowledge that they possess, directs their sentiments rather to the field of feelings .... At all times, the driving force of the most important changes in this world has never been contained in any scientific ideas that suddenly mastered the masses, but always consisted in fanaticism dominant in the masses and in hysteria which drives these masses forward ... ”

So, in order to remain in power, the national-chauvinists needed a visible enemy. And almost everywhere this “enemy” was found. In addition to the “colonialist” Russian, they became yesterday’s neighbors: an Armenian for an Azerbaijani, an Abkhaz for a Georgian, etc. In addition, they needed emotions (that notorious fanaticism about which Hitler wrote) capable of distracting people from of life. They could not, and were not able to give the ubiquitous "revival" of "cultures", "national languages", including those that never existed, either gradually dying off or already imperceptibly dead. Only blood, a lot of blood, could evoke stronger emotions. And this blood flowed, flowed in streams: Karabakh, Ossetia, Moldavia, the Caucasus ... Trickles and streams, which began to drain by the time of the final collapse of the Soviet Union into one big river.

In the meantime, December 25 1991 Russia was renamed the Russian Federation. In the evening of the same day, Gorbachev phoned US President George Bush Sr. and assured him in a telephone conversation: “You can safely celebrate Christmas. The USSR no longer exists. ” The next day, the Council of the Republic of the USSR Supreme Soviet adopted a declaration on the termination of the existence of the USSR as a state and object of international law. Resolutions were issued to dismiss the judges of the Supreme and Supreme Arbitration Courts and members of the board of the USSR Prosecutor's Office and the resolution to dismiss the chairman of the State Bank and his first deputy.

After that, President Bush spoke on radio and television in the United States, declaring that the USSR had been defeated by the Cold War, and the then US Secretary of State James Baker openly stated: “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to win the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, there were traitors. ”
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  1. makst83
    makst83 22 August 2013 12: 03 New
    100
    If the young soldier sitting at the hatch cut knew what would happen in the coming years, after the "August putsch", he would have shot the EBN right on the tank! How sad and sad that history does not know the subjunctive mood!
    1. Grishka100watt
      Grishka100watt 22 August 2013 16: 23 New
      48
      The commander of this tank was shown on television many years later. And, unfortunately, he did not feel any shame there. Traitor.
      1. KazaK Bo
        KazaK Bo 22 August 2013 19: 26 New
        15
        Quote: Grishka100watt
        The commander of this tank was shown on television many years later. And, unfortunately, he did not feel any shame there. Traitor.

        ..and the name of that officer (in different sources in different ways, but it was alleged that it was a battalion commander of TB) who was the first to shoot a tank at the rebellious parliament ... HAS NOT BEEN CALLED NOW ... or am I mistaken? Call this Judah, if anyone knows!
        1. Anti
          Anti 22 August 2013 21: 59 New
          0
          Quote: KazaK Bo
          Until now, not called


          - Three hundred and fifteenth! The goal is the central windows of the eighth floor.
          He grabbed the handles, made a turn.
          - I see the goal!
          - Cumulative ... three shells ... Fire!
          He closed the hatch, and with the click of the lock, all communication with the upper world was cut off, and even that small fraction of grace that managed to reach it instantly mixed and disappeared into the powder smoke ...
          Tired of the roar, he waited for the command to cease fire, with difficulty got out on the armor and instantly fell asleep, as if a plowman had arrived late in his furrow. He slept without sleep, for with the last shot he realized that today the war has finally ended. It could have continued tomorrow, but now he could no longer shoot: any even the most interesting game could tire, and therefore he slept like a child playing among toys.
          And he woke up in the dark - the warrant officer pulled his pants, beat him under his knees.
          - Commander! Commander! .. Run to three hundred and fifty-second! Crew commanders announced!
          Cyril went down from the tank - only riot police shields and helmets were turning white, like road poles, stood on a sharp turn and flamed with might and main the entire fifteenth floor, throwing alarming reflections on the gray autumn water of the Moscow River. The fire had already spread to the sixteenth, and from there, like a victorious fireworks, the burning spray of unknown fountains showered.
          He stood in line, in front of which a small colonel, a typical tankman, was pacing. He spoke in a commanding voice, but whether it was their commander is not known, because the voice sounded completely different than in the headset. However, Cyril did not care ...
          “A tanker is a creative profession, gentlemen officers,” either from pleasure or from boredom he ranted. - And every creator must see the fruit of his labor. The fruit is an incentive for creativity. Each of you should have an idea how this or that shell works in conditions of urban battle ...
          From a dream, Cyril had not yet grasped the meaning of his words, did not realize where and why he was going, and therefore went to the White House with soldierly mechanics. On top of that, the uselessness of the shooting was embarrassing, when only the glass flew from the shells and the tattered ohing of the blinds ...
          But what he saw struck the imagination and turned out his memory, like an empty sack, to fill it with an inexhaustible disgusting abomination - the rags of the human body ...
        2. Gur
          Gur 23 August 2013 15: 39 New
          21
          Yesterday, I watched a show like it was, and the conclusion came on its own, all of Judah, Yeltsin was no less than Gorbach, and with our own hands we threw him onto the throne, we also covered with especially zealous bodies, we laid down under the tanks, and the tanks then went to support the GKChP, then they like us all betrayed and retreated from the oath. So, first of all, there is no forgiveness for us and therefore for these Judas. We are talking about shit about our USSR, all the conquests of the people. We followed the beautiful promises of some, and looked at the silent collapse of the country of others.
          1. survivor
            survivor 25 August 2013 16: 42 New
            +1
            we are being reduced. beat people to pieces
            Magomed
            we are sold by weight, and we are happy with that.
            alas, we like it in the guise of things.
            and the buyer is not stingy, not compassionate.
            he's nobody's.
            he meticulously picks us, but in bulk.
            grimacingly with a finger, he climbs into his mouth.
            and he wipes his finger with a handkerchief.
            rotten people.
            such a product is not needed, it hurts a lot.
            he strives to reduce the party.
            and we stand and stand so wretchedly.
            no droplets, no pain.
            we are being reduced. people are being beaten to pieces.
            for the sake of the buyer, tailor.
      2. Letterksi
        Letterksi 23 August 2013 09: 38 New
        +3
        But do the commanders of today's tanks feel any shame for inaction?
    2. Naum
      Naum 22 August 2013 16: 58 New
      -43
      And not only him! Of course, it was necessary to smack the freaks earlier, when they were making a coup in the 17th, and then they destroyed the Empire, creating on its ruins the Union of Republics, which were not even in nature before! It was then that the "democrats" sucked off, together with the drunken Christ-selling cattle, betrayed Russia! ..
      1. 53-Sciborskiy
        53-Sciborskiy 22 August 2013 18: 46 New
        26
        For decades, the CPSU has told the people that capitalism is
        theft and banditry. And then Gorbachev declared: comrades, we must all become capitalists. He was understood accordingly.
      2. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 22 August 2013 19: 15 New
        22
        Quote: Naum
        Of course, it was necessary to naughty freaks before, when they created a coup in the 17th, and then destroyed the Empire, creating a Union of Republics on its ruins, which had never existed in nature before!

        Dear, do not confuse or compare the coup of 1917 and the coup of 1991. Although both were illegal (illegal), the differences are fundamental. In addition to legality, there is the concept of legitimacy and this is where the snag lies.
        In support of my words, I will give a few facts:
        - in 1917, the October coup by the people tortured by the war of Russia not needed by Russia in 1914 was perceived positively (this is clearly evidenced by the numbers of the Red and White armies). With approximately equal numbers in the initial period towards the end of the war, the ratio was about 1:10. The peak number of the Red Army is about 6 million people, the maximum total number of armies under the White Front did not exceed 1,5 million people.
        - almost all the programs of the new government had a pronounced popular orientation (I already anticipate criticism of this moment, but I’ll clarify that there were errors, of course, there were frankly negative decisions, but the overall vector was clearly positive). I will not bore you with information - the world, factories for workers, land for peasants, educational program, etc. As a result, already after the first five-year plan, we had an industrialized country formed in most of the population, unlike the practically agricultural Russian Empire (the ratio of rural to urban population is 15%: 85%). No matter how they criticized industrialization and collectivization, they yielded mostly positive results - in 1939 the ratio of urban to rural population was approximately 50/50, despite the fact that people didn’t eat less, and financial and material resources were required for the industrial breakthrough . All this was given by the village, because at that time, bread was the main export commodity. To summarize - in 1917 a more adequate government replaced a less adequate one and this is not a matter of dispute, all facts and figures speak about this, and facts and figures are a stubborn thing.
        - And now about the year 1991. The degradation of industry and population, the incessant decline in the level of education, medical care, life expectancy, i.e. on the face of the so-called "humane" genocide. As a result, the total demographic loss is more than 20 million people, i.e. commensurate with the losses in the Second World War., although of course no one shot anyone. In industry, the picture is even more sad - more than two-fold decline in industrial production (within the RSFSR), while the Union reached the pre-war level of production already in 1948. As they say, comments are unnecessary. And unlike 1917, the situation in 1991 was neither legal nor legitimate (recall the results of the All-Union referendum).
        Next, make your own conclusions whether you are right or not !!!
        1. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 22 August 2013 22: 33 New
          -7
          hi
          The Social Democrats (b) first in London (!) For the money of “simple” English Samaritans organize their party (2 congress of the RSDLP - 17 (30) of July - 10 (23) of August 1903), and then they supported the defeat of Russia for the next tranches during the Russo-Japanese War, they organized revolutionary terrorism in the country, killing and maiming from 1901 to 1911 a year about 17 thousand people (of which 9 thousand during the 1905-1907 revolution, in 1907 a year, an average of up to 18 people died every day) . And then, after a short break, according to the plan of Alexander Lvovich Parvus (Israel Lazarevich Gelfand) according to the “Memorial of Dr. Gelfand”, for the money of the German (and not only ...) government, comrade the Bolsheviks organized the October Revolution, smoothly flowing into the fratricidal Civil War. Thus having arranged, “the day before the Victory,” the defeat of the country in the First World War and having deleted from the memory of the people of 5 the millions of dead Russian soldiers.
          Ditching the color of the nation in the Civil War - more than 10 million people died and died during epidemics, more than 4 million people became disabled and more than 2 million people emigrated to other countries. And, having destroyed the country “to the ground” - more than a quarter of national wealth was lost, national income decreased by 2,75 times compared to 1917, the gross output of small industry dropped to 43% of the pre-war level, gross grain harvest to 67%, metal processing products amounted to 7% of the 1913 level, pig iron production a little more than 2%, due to the lack of fuel and raw materials, most enterprises were idle, railways carried out no more than 12% of the 1913 transportation volume, mail and communication practically did not work - com unisty with damaged control system, but "with burning eyes" took the people "to a brighter future," which decided to build his own, people, hands.
          And since they didn’t promise to feed on the way, then on the way they “lost” another 5 million from starvation in 1920-21. and more than 7 million people in 1932-33 Due to the amateurism of the ruling stratum of the Bolshevik party and the Soviet state, consisting of people who did not have experience in real economic activity, the quality of managerial decisions was extremely low, and the concentration in the hands of the state of management of all sectors of the economy contributed to the swelling of the apparatus and the growth of bureaucracy. In addition, along with disinterested adherents of the Bolshevik idea, there were many careerists and even “socially close” criminals in the government. The expulsion of representatives of the opposition Bolshevik parties from power contributed to the lack of control of leaders who were convinced that “everything is permitted to them,” “the end justifies the means,” or else “why did they shed blood ?!” In short, there were many foremen, and few professional builders, because the number of workers decreased by 6 – 7 times, and since “the salvation of drowning people was the work of the drowning people themselves”, “Your word, comrade Mauser!” the purging terror broke out! “Let the storm strike harder!” As a result, more than 1 million 700 thousand people were arrested and at least 725 thousand of them were shot during the Great Terror of 1937-1938, when the Bolshevik state killed an average of a thousand (!) Of its citizens every day. Having finally achieved, through incredible efforts and sacrifices, after 17 years to the 40 year of the year of the 13 imperial Russia, the country was on the verge of war, if not with the Anglo-French coalition, then with the countries of the central axis, for sure. Due to illiterate command and control of the Army and repressions before the war, most of the 28 million people who died were in the first period of World War II, and this, not counting the deportees and deportees ...
          1. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 22 August 2013 22: 40 New
            0
            Video in the topic -
            1. Apologet.Ru
              Apologet.Ru 22 August 2013 23: 03 New
              21
              Why did I write the above? Because you cannot primitively approach the history of the Russian world - the Tsarist Empire was bad, and the Soviet one was good. The king was D.urak, and the General Secretary was geniuses. It is important that after the betrayal of the Autocratic Russian Empire, its collapse and the fratricidal Civil War, by the efforts of millions of Russian people and their lives under the leadership of Imperial IV Stalin, the Russian Empire was restored under the status of the Soviet and won the Great War and ... was betrayed again! .
              “A huge subarctic Empire was betrayed, which lay on eleven time zones. A continental giant who tenaciously held in his mighty hands a sixth of the world, spreading his regiments and divisions in the hot Asian expanses, and in Europe, and in the taiga wilds. In this country, under the old, rusty, Party-Soviet shell, a new force was ripening. New Supercivilization. Then our country resembled a big house, where absolutely magical things were still in disorder, and only the iron will of an intelligent leader was needed to arrange them in a new order, in imperial harmony. We really looked like a treasury then, chock-full of not only oil, gas and other raw materials, but above all fabulous technologies that could be used. And also - armies of people who were able to move mountains and reach the stars. Who could handle the most daunting tasks. Under the usual Soviet shell, hidden from the eyes of their own citizens by an absurd and harmful secrecy, truly universal energies seethed, tens of thousands of talented engineers and scientists were tirelessly working, millions of perfectly trained workers with high qualifications were moving. Almost ready-made material for the greatest concerns and corporations of the world class, capable of giving the astonished world samples of unprecedented technology, for a technological breakthrough, before which the vaunted "Japanese miracle" would also fade. It was the army of the future, which could still be molded into thousands and thousands of smaller firms, producing myriads of useful things for ourselves. Back in 1989, we had everything for a breakthrough into a wonderful new world, and for this the Empire needed only the hand of a skilled organizer, a creator-sculptor, able to cut off excess parts from a block of beautiful marble and release magnificent forms. What was needed was a leader who could release all the strongest and healthiest, take possession of the obtained energy and direct it into the channel of creation. Indeed, militarily, the Empire was invincible, in many ways ahead of the West. But only until the satanic forces of decomposition and degeneration threw up their leaders - the u.blyudkov, first Gorbachev, and then Yeltsin. Until we, the Russians, were stabbed in the back by our own, degenerated and degraded "ruling elite." Until this whole process of destruction of our Empire was supported from within, the insidious West did not spur on with its green candy wrappers. You and I must understand that we are already living during the Fourth World War. The third ended in December 1991, when the enemies of the people Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich, with the approval of the Humpbacked Chatterbox, destroyed the Soviet Empire. And until these Traitors - Judas are planted by the hands of the Russian people on a stake in history, we are "doomed to step on the same rake ..."
          2. wax
            wax 22 August 2013 22: 50 New
            -7
            Sorry. Hardly curable.
          3. wax
            wax 23 August 2013 03: 14 New
            +8
            Dear Apologet.ru, your writings have the same relation to the real history of Russia in the 20th century as drains to sewage treatment plants to spring water.
            Parvus was a provocateur. He did offer money from circles close to the German government. After which all the Bolshevik organizations were asked not to have any relations with Parvus.
            Lenin did not receive German money: one Pole (Ossendovsky) concocted forged documents, one American journalist (Sisson) bought them. Dusted these documents in the archives before the destruction of the USSR. Now this duck is in full swing and annoyingly repeats, although the authoritative analysis of these so-called documents by American researchers has proved their falsity.
            1) Caps on printed forms. The German publication noted that the caps on the supposedly official letterhead of the department of the German General Staff from Sisson's documents are clearly fake. The designation "Grosser Generalstab" was actually canceled on August 2, 1914 and restored only after the war. The General Staff has never included the Nachrichten-Bureau. There was, until the summer of 1917, "Nachrichtenabteilung" 16), which became in 1917 "Abteilung Fremder Heere" 17), from where the name was probably taken. There was no Russian department in it.
            ...
            5) Printing. The documents allegedly sent by the “Russian Department of the German General Staff” do not have any print, the same applies to some of the documents allegedly from Russian institutions.
            The print on the letters “Nachrichten-Bureau” is completely primitive and does not look like any official one used by the German army. On the press, only carelessly crowded out letters, without an emblem, and it seems to have been fashioned by attaching the letters of a typewriter font to the end of a metal tube.
            ...
            7) Font. A careful study of the font of the main part of the documents published in the official brochure (all of them are typewriter), it clearly shows that the documents are made on five different typewriters.
            To print all the documents from Russian institutions, including various ones, such as the office of the “Commissioner for Combating Counter-Revolution and Pogroms” and the “Counter-Intelligence Headquarters” (presumably located hundreds of kilometers from Petrograd), only machines 1 and 2 were used. Thus, the documents allegedly from Russian sources were actually produced in the same place as documents from German institutions - a clear sign of fake.
            ...
            http://wiki.istmat.info/док:документы_сиссона
            To disassemble the rubbish further - time is a pity.
            1. Apologet.Ru
              Apologet.Ru 23 August 2013 10: 01 New
              +2
              Vax quote (1)
              your writings have the same relation to the real history of Russia in the 20 century as drains to sewage treatment plants to spring water.

              Colleague, you, that you are a well-known scientist on the history of Russia, that you allow yourself to make tactful statements regarding the opinions of other participants in this forum? Incidentally, no one gave you this right! Why do you think that only your opinion on the issue under discussion is correct? Everything that is written in the first part of my comments can be found in the same Wikipedia with relevant requests! I understand that I do not want to get away from myths. But, by the way, people known in the scientific community take part in the creation and in the comments to the film, and unlike you, their opinion, in particular for me, is much more authoritative than the opinions of amateurs blinded by some of their ideas.
              For example, Natalia Alekseevna Narochnitskaya, who graduated with honors from the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, is a well-known Russian political figure, historian, and political scientist. Doctor of Historical Sciences. Specialist in the USA, Germany and general problems and trends in international relations. Senior Researcher, Institute of World Economy and International Relations, Russian Academy of Sciences. Member of the State Duma of the fourth convocation in 2003 — 2007.
              In 2009 — 2012, he was a member of the Commission on countering attempts to falsify history to the detriment of Russia's interests.
              And I deeply doubt that she would decide to participate and comment on a film based, as you, a colleague, say, on a lie.
              I repeat, but once again I note that OUR history is not black and white and each of us has the right to know ALL aspects of those events. Here are just conclusions from them everyone should do for himself ...
              1. Apologet.Ru
                Apologet.Ru 23 August 2013 11: 41 New
                +2
                Incidentally, the film does NOT use fake documents, which you, a colleague of Wax (1) refer to, but operate exclusively with originals from the archives of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Federal Republic of Germany and the FSB of Russia ...
        2. evgenm55
          evgenm55 27 August 2013 11: 04 New
          0
          Didn’t you count too many millions? Judging by you, by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War we had 7-8 million people left. Further, who nevertheless started the revolution? Who led nicholas to abdication? The Bolsheviks, at that time the smallest, a little-known party simply raised the Authority from the earth, organized the people and saved the country from general chaos and collapse. Also to remind who started the Civil War? Kornilov, Krasnov, Kaledin, who gave their word not to fight against their people, released on parole. telling tales is for the ears of the hysterical type Sobchak and toads, like Navodvorskaya.
        3. I'm Russian
          I'm Russian 27 August 2013 16: 06 New
          +1
          And those who voted for der_mokratii voted against
      3. ia-ai00
        ia-ai00 25 August 2013 07: 52 New
        0
        NAUM, what is it that came to you in UM? You lived badly during the USSR ???
    3. Vashestambid2
      Vashestambid2 22 August 2013 17: 06 New
      -32
      Meanwhile, on December 25, 1991, Russia was renamed the Russian Federation. In the evening of the same day, Gorbachev called US President George W. Bush and assured in a telephone conversation: “You can safely celebrate Christmas. The USSR no longer exists. ”

      What coincidence is direct to Christmas, a real Christmas present for the USA !! Lol smile
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 22 August 2013 17: 09 New
        22
        Quote: Vashestambid2
        LOL

        Well get a minus to start. Those who understand what he wrote will add.
        1. Vashestambid2
          Vashestambid2 22 August 2013 17: 58 New
          -39
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Well get a minus to start.


          Get Fascist Grenade !! laughing
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 22 August 2013 18: 13 New
            10
            Quote: Vashestambid2
            Get Fascist Grenade !!

            You go the right way: got out-skull-in the bath am wassat
        2. klimpopov
          klimpopov 23 August 2013 15: 05 New
          0
          Yeah, he also added to karma. Very rarely do.
    4. alone
      alone 22 August 2013 18: 49 New
      +7
      instead of a soldier, I wouldn’t let him to the tank. I would crush him like a tomato presses on a tomato))
    5. starshina78
      starshina78 22 August 2013 21: 15 New
      18
      Those who lived then and could think over their actions, that is, were capable, and who are now writing with anger and pain about the collapse of the USSR, remember yourself then. Surely, they went out into the street and shouted: "Hurray! The end of the USSR! The end of the KPSSS" Give freedom! ". I am exaggerating a little, but something like this. I am one of those too. But now I would give a lot to go back and change everything. Who knew then that Yeltsin would bring Russia to the handle by selling everything he could to former Komsomol members and party bosses, To the KGB and cunning Americans, that then he will fill his ambitions in Chechnya with the blood of our children, that we will become impoverished, that in a country where everyone was equal, oligarchs with billions of dollars will appear and poverty, which makes up more than half of the population, that we will lose the army and the fleet, destroying them at the behest of the Americans. Yes, in Russia a hangover is always hard, but that it was then no one thought, walking drunk with happiness, that there is no more KGB and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. It's a pity not the time machine! to make Yeltsin drunk on December 7, 1991, so that he could not fly to Belarus, you see, the USSR would have remained!
      1. patline
        patline 23 August 2013 00: 41 New
        12
        For me it was a SHOCK with a capital letter. And no joy. The world seemed to fall. And I was 17 years old.
        They say that those who were not liberal in their youth did not know youth, and those who did not become a conservative when they were 40 are simply fools. Partially agree, but youth was stolen from us. Bastards, how I hate these bastards who have taken youth from us.
        1. rolik
          rolik 28 August 2013 16: 20 New
          +1
          Quote: patline
          The world seemed to fall. And I was 17 years old.

          And I only - only came from the army, the Soviet Army. When my father found out about this, only one thing was said:
          - Now the BADAK will begin.
          He was completely right. While living in our city we saw how Sevmash and Zvezdochka and Severny Raid begin to kill. Well, by now, both Seva and Zvezda have gotten out of the hole, but the Northern Raid has failed. And what kind of enterprise it was, secrecy like we have at Sevmash, top-class products.
      2. ksan
        ksan 23 August 2013 01: 02 New
        +4
        Those who lived then and could ponder their actions, that is, were capable, and who are now writing with anger and pain about the collapse of the USSR, remember yourself then. Surely, they went out into the street and shouted: "Hurray! The end of the USSR! The end of the KPSSS" Give freedom! ". I'm exaggerating a little, but something like this. I'm also one of those
        The sergeant major is not all of "such", for example, I (and I am not the only one) was not in Moscow at that time, but when I saw tanks on the streets and the GKChP meeting on the removal of Gorbachev from power on TV I was glad and sincerely believed that this mess called Perestroika will finally come to an end. But unfortunately, these GKChPists did not have enough intelligence to stop the collapse. Had the GKChPists been in Yeltsin's team, he would not have "faltered", he showed what he was "capable of" in 93
      3. KOH
        KOH 23 August 2013 07: 06 New
        +7
        I don’t know how you did, but my heart bleeds when a bunch of morons, for example, a monument to Dzerzhinsky was destroyed ... and much more, and the youngsters who fell under the tanks became heroes ...
      4. dustycat
        dustycat 25 August 2013 18: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: starshina78
        Those who lived then and could think over their actions, that is, were capable, and who are now writing with anger and pain about the collapse of the USSR, remember yourself then. Surely, they went out into the street and shouted: "Hurray! The end of the USSR! The end of the KPSSS" Give freedom! ".

        About "hurray! The end of the Communist Party!" You're right. It was.
        About ur! Freedom! You're right. It was.
        But about "Hurray! The end of the USSR!" You are very excited. I don't remember those.
        Although I remember people in civilian clothes at all intersections in the evening of 19, 20 and 21.
        I remember the policemen standing next to them. With guns.
        Moreover, some of them were in uniform shirts without shoulder straps. With shoulder straps there were only sergeants and foremen.
        New Year 1992 was the saddest holiday in Russia.
        December 31, I worked at night. In the workplace of course noted. But not like in subsequent years. The men in the locksmith were gloomy and gloomy.
        By morning, the only half a bottle of vodka remained on the workbench. (That's 8 glasses then!)
        On January 2, there were a lot of people on the streets.
        Sober, not a bit dreary.
        Which was very strange for Novokuznetsk.

        Even the children at the tree (just the 2nd of the cousin’s day took the tree to the circus) were somehow unhappy. And this is in the CIRCUS !!! The tree walked without squeals and laughter.
        The clowns were sorry. Although they tried very hard.
    6. Snoop
      Snoop 25 August 2013 19: 37 New
      0
      It is a pity that among the military there was no courageous and decisive ... one line from the DShK would all have fled.
  2. Alex66
    Alex66 22 August 2013 15: 33 New
    63
    “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to triumph in the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, traitors were found. ”
    And these traitors have not gone anywhere; they continue to work for their overseas masters.
    1. Skarte
      Skarte 22 August 2013 16: 45 New
      +8
      I have a feeling that the United States, as usual, they have such a nature, clung to what they did not do, but to raise their profile they trumpeted the whole world and how the jackals came running to grab their piece.
      1. smile
        smile 22 August 2013 17: 21 New
        24
        Skarte
        No, you have the wrong feeling. The nationalist-minded local elite that came to power under Russophobian slogans was practically all under the control of the United States. This is confirmed by the numerous boastful statements of the now old scoundrels who came to power, for example, in the Baltic states .... they are proud that they collaborated with the special services of the USA, Britain, etc. moreover, the work of the special services of our probable friends did not stop even for a minute, moreover, in the same way and by the same methods as previously, not for nothing that Russia is now trying to shake under the same slogans as the USSR.
        1. ksan
          ksan 23 August 2013 01: 41 New
          +5
          I agree with Vladimir,
          After that, President Bush spoke on radio and television in the United States, declaring that the USSR had been defeated by the Cold War, and the then US Secretary of State James Baker openly stated: “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to win the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, there were traitors. ”
          Nothing has changed to this day, only now instead of the USSR - Russia. The states do not need a democratic Russia, but a "colony" with a huge territory and with even more huge reserves of natural resources. Who is interested in reading the statements of one of the "fathers" of American ideology Z. Brzezinski; "A new world order with US hegemony is being created against Russia, at the expense of Russia and on the ruins of Russia." or this one:After the fall of communism, the main enemy of the West is Russian Orthodoxyduring the Bush era, he was his national security adviser. Also our "respected" did not forget to mention the legacy of the Soviet Union: "Russia is a defeated power. It lost a titanic struggle. And to say 'it was not Russia, but the Soviet Union' is to run away from reality." Here he actually says that there was no end to the Cold War, and the collapse of the USSR was one of the stages of the confrontation, which continues to this day.
          1. evgenm55
            evgenm55 27 August 2013 11: 46 New
            0
            It has long been clear to all normal, thinking people in Russia: the Americans do not care what kind of power we have in our country — Soviet, democratic, liberal, etc. , the main thing is capture and colonization. Everything else is just pretexts. But they are enemies, it’s in the order of things for them. It’s much more painful that ours and those holding power and money play on their side ...
      2. konvalval
        konvalval 22 August 2013 20: 57 New
        -2
        I think you are wrong. Read if you find a Dulles plan.
    2. michajlo
      michajlo 22 August 2013 23: 14 New
      +7
      Alex66 RU Today, 15:33

      “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to triumph in the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, traitors were found. ”
      And these traitors have not gone anywhere; they continue to work for their overseas masters.

      Good evening, dear Alexander!

      Totally agree with you. Probably all the same, it is worth it that the people recognize the NAMES OF ALL heroes of the collapse of the Union faster.

      Many of whom are still "incognito" even now, because, as smart and wise in life, they do not flaunt and do not brag about where they came from such wealth that you cannot earn by honest labor ...
  3. seller trucks
    seller trucks 22 August 2013 15: 35 New
    58
    Bush announcing that the USSR was defeated as a result of the Cold War


    a sad article, but vague doubts torment me, it's too early to put an end to this war, and with the "winner", too, not all ice.

    Most importantly, traitors were found. ”


    but it is vital to deal with traitors. "How we miss you Comrade Stalin."
    1. Spectrum
      Spectrum 22 August 2013 17: 03 New
      19
      Today, it’s customary for us to give medals to traitors. And to all this gang of shit, it’s just right to give out lead medals.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 22 August 2013 21: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: Spectrum
        Today, it’s customary for us to give medals to traitors. And to all this gang of shit, it’s just right to give out lead medals.



        Aspen "rewards" for Judas will also come to the fore. And the sash made of high-strength soapy fiber across the neck is also noteworthy.
        1. survivor
          survivor 25 August 2013 16: 52 New
          +1
          no, dear. a rope is needed to break. and several times to choke. although the history is often rewritten, but she is an insidious woman and everyone will receive according to the mundane. many have already received. and of course we, ordinary people, too, received half our silence.
          this is the thing brothers, we drove ourselves
          Magomed
          what remains of the people after any restructuring?
          three to four is not a freak, between hundreds of drinking bouts.
          What remains of the state after all the earthquakes?
          only Russia, the skeleton is rusty, and even that one is in doubt.
          Yes, we have changed dramatically, we are changing ourselves every day!
          all that we were striving for is bent into the spine.
          for a piece of shit in a wrapper, give yourself free.
          and with this kind of processing, we won’t get out!
          we, greatness and power, exchanged at the wrong rate.
          we and the Motherland have forgotten, we worship the resource.
          this is the thing brothers, we drove ourselves.
          1. dustycat
            dustycat 25 August 2013 18: 21 New
            0
            Quote: survivor
            no, dear. a rope is needed to break. and several times to choke.

            "The regulations do not order to shoot twice."
            1. survivor
              survivor 25 August 2013 19: 54 New
              0
              so it is necessary not according to the charter (in this case, it is very humane), but according to conscience. so that not a single scum was afraid, even a similar thought would be allowed into his corrupt brain
    2. KOH
      KOH 22 August 2013 17: 18 New
      21
      One is already in the valley of his ancestors, and the second has gone mad in Germany, the humpbacker has received all possible bonuses for the collapse of the Union ********, it’s a pity not everyone can say what I think about them, for banyat ...
      1. Sinbad
        Sinbad 22 August 2013 18: 23 New
        +8
        We, you, understood and mentally added many more unprintable epithets.
        1. Airman
          Airman 22 August 2013 21: 19 New
          +4
          Quote: Sinbad
          We, you, understood and mentally added many more unprintable epithets.

          Yes, no matter how you say it, everything will be small. And on these ub .... in the necessary obscene words have not yet been invented, but it would be necessary.
    3. ksan
      ksan 23 August 2013 01: 49 New
      +1
      a sad article, but vague doubts torment me, it's too early to put an end to this war, and with the "winner", too, somehow not all ice
      It’s really early to set a point. Russia was and will be, and will not just be, but will be GREAT POWER! Despite all the machinations of the American nor their henchmen in Russia.
      1. voffchik7691
        voffchik7691 26 August 2013 00: 07 New
        0
        I would very much like what would have happened to you, but ... agriculture is practically destroyed, industry too. The country is slowly being populated by guest workers. Russia as a territory will remain, but alas, without us! "Cossacks sent" from the government, doing everything to finish off the remnants of those who have not drunk themselves!
  4. lelikas
    lelikas 22 August 2013 15: 35 New
    36
    One of the memories that stays with me for the rest of my life is
    But I remember the summer of 87, perestroika, glasnost and all that,
    His father, who was then 47 years old, in a conversation with his grandfather, voiced to him a "new idea" - that the party was destroying the country - the only time I saw grandfather hitting his father in the face, with the words - Don't you dare touch the party bastard. And this is the sweetest and most sentimental grandfather, from whom it was impossible to hear a word of mat ...
    1. Scoun
      Scoun 22 August 2013 17: 23 New
      17
      Quote: lelikas
      that the party is falling apart

      but in fact your father was right, at that moment at the helm of the Party was tagged, who with his team Shevarnadze and others ruined the USSR.
      I still recall the statement of our then Minister of Defense about how the humpback did not take the Defense Ministry on a trip to Germany and how he handed over our military there, how we destroyed the wall and sent troops to nowhere, leaving a ton of equipment and infrastructure for billions, we only got billions of dollars in losses, they didn’t get a penny from the Germans .. although the German Chancellor OFFERED money for it ... okay money .. figs with them .. but the military and their families housed anyhow anyhow ... well, no words .. I hope soon I will see how at least a shoe flies into his pack.
      22 years ago, 18-year-old German Matthias Rust helped Gorbachev sweep away the command staff of the Soviet army
      D.T. Yazov, who then became the new Minister of Defense, believes (and not without reason) that Gorbachev simply took advantage of a convenient opportunity to get rid of the obstinate Sokolov, who “got a hold of” a fundamental objection to the inclusion of the Oka tactical missile (SS-23) in the list of missiles liable to liquidation under the Soviet-American Treaty on Medium and Shorter Range Missiles (INF) - from 1000 to 5500 km and from 500 to 1000 km, respectively. The leadership of the Ministry of Defense was categorically against the inclusion of the Oka, which had a flight range of up to 450 km, in the subject of negotiations. However, US Secretary of State J. Schulz “persuaded” USSR Foreign Minister E.A. Shevardnadze bring it under the concept of "shorter-range missiles", and therefore, under the reduction. Gulbachev supported the Schulz-Shevardnadze line without advice from the military. He did not forget about the objections of Sokolov and other senior military leaders, and literally a month after the collision with Oka, he settled with the Minister.

      The German magazine "Spiegel" conducted an investigation and proved that Rust had been prepared by the security services for this operation, and that NATO experts accompanied his entire flight.

      And here is the evidence of the Russian high-ranking military.

      Army General Petr DEYNEKIN, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force in 1991-97:

      - There is no doubt that the flight of Rust was a carefully planned provocation of the Western intelligence services. And most importantly, it was carried out with the consent and knowledge of individuals from the then leadership of the Soviet Union.

      http://svpressa.ru/t/9326/?odkl=1
      1. Scoun
        Scoun 22 August 2013 17: 51 New
        10
        on the topic .. about the unification of Germany, about monetary compensation and about the hacked "Oka", and about the hump .. said that the USSR without any conditions ... about the Bering Sea .. how Shevardnadze leaked to the Americans ...
      2. lelikas
        lelikas 22 August 2013 19: 11 New
        +8
        This is not a party - a dozen other presumptuous and snickering tops spoiled everything that millions of people did.
        Everything went into disarray after the last veterans left the government, when frank conjuncturers and nominees came to their places.
      3. fzr1000
        fzr1000 22 August 2013 23: 32 New
        +2
        Rust today is an ordinary felon. Judged for assault and theft. Gopnik this Martin ...
  5. a52333
    a52333 22 August 2013 15: 44 New
    25
    With all the bitterness, I put the CIA +, I put it - the KGB of the USSR. Could pick up the snipers.
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 22 August 2013 16: 08 New
      0
      Quote: a52333
      With all the bitterness, I put the CIA +, I put it - the KGB of the USSR.


      let's not, this is a war not of intelligence, but of civilization, and I assure you we are definitely not the losers in this war
      1. Mihae09
        Mihae09 23 August 2013 01: 21 New
        +1
        I wonder what we won? Modern crap "athletes" are double minus the KGB of the USSR (with all due respect to this organization), far from being a true fiction
    2. Alexei
      Alexei 22 August 2013 17: 00 New
      +5
      Quote: a52333
      With all the bitterness, I put the CIA +, I put it - the KGB of the USSR. Could pick up the snipers.

      What are you speaking about? Bialowieza Forest is located on the very border with Poland, that's why they signed it in order to sneak away if. But all the same, we wouldn’t have time, because the Belarusian KGB was in the know and called back to the hunchback to give him an excuse. They would have been taken if given. No need to put a minus, the KGB - the force was strong and ideological.
      There are three types of professional activity: 1 for big money, 2 for adventure, and 3 for an idea that is the motivation of the most devoted people.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 22 August 2013 17: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexej
        The Belarusian KGB was in the know and called back to the hunchback to give him an excuse.

        Already sounded
        James Baker, the then US Secretary of State, openly stated for the first time: ... Most importantly, traitors were found. ”
      2. Hudo
        Hudo 22 August 2013 21: 09 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexej
        No need to put a minus, the KGB - the force was strong and ideological.



        Yeah!!! A banal "minus" for the KGB is indispensable! The mere disregard for the shitcrats who jumped out of the snuffbox like the devil alone makes it possible to speak with great confidence about a direct betrayal of the Motherland by the top and middle KGB staff.

        ZY Warmly set you, "minus". Sincerely.
    3. mazdie
      mazdie 22 August 2013 20: 44 New
      +3
      All trouble was in the system of one-man management, without an order no one dared to act. But there was no order.
      1. Airman
        Airman 22 August 2013 21: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: mazdie
        All trouble was in the system of one-man management, without an order no one dared to act. But there was no order.

        Nothing has changed, now the same thing.
    4. michajlo
      michajlo 22 August 2013 23: 24 New
      +3
      a52333 RU Today, 15: 44

      Good evening, dear Alexey!
      Alas, in my opinion you are wrong.

      Union snipers-patriots, firstly, it was necessary to indicate the necessary goals: Rotting the top of the KGB, which brought Gorbachev to power, guarded him, performed the "function of a telephone operator" between the CIA, the Council of Deputies and the Caudle "Gorby & Co"
      and eliminated the overly patriotic and prudent military and intelligence officers who were dangerous to Perestroika.
  6. Straus_zloy
    Straus_zloy 22 August 2013 15: 45 New
    60
    He laughs best who laughs last
    1. Naum
      Naum 22 August 2013 17: 01 New
      18
      Ah, a good line! To survive! ..
    2. Vashestambid2
      Vashestambid2 22 August 2013 17: 02 New
      -50
      Dreaming is not bad !! tongue
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 22 August 2013 17: 20 New
        15
        Quote: Vashestambid2
        Dreaming is not bad !!


        bugger? , nasty, break through
        1. rolik
          rolik 28 August 2013 16: 22 New
          0
          Quote: seller trucks
          nasty, break through

          He will definitely TRANSFER to his)))))))))))
      2. Alexei
        Alexei 22 August 2013 17: 34 New
        +6
        Quote: Vashestambid2
        Dreaming is not bad !!

        What is this? Why is this? A thought, because it is material. tongue
      3. Cynic
        Cynic 22 August 2013 17: 53 New
        +6
        Quote: Vashestambid2
        Dreaming is not bad !!

        You are absolutely right !
        Dreaming is not bad! Harmful not to dream!
      4. shtanko.49
        shtanko.49 22 August 2013 19: 04 New
        +3
        No wonder you have a cast-iron head. The image is consistent with nature.
      5. vlasov70
        vlasov70 22 August 2013 19: 50 New
        -2
        We will die today, and you will die tomorrow!
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 22 August 2013 21: 38 New
          0
          Quote: vlasov70
          We will die today, and you will die tomorrow!

          I feel closer
          Die today, and we tomorrow
          .
          Hmm, even Tyson agrees
          If I die tomorrow, then my enemies will die today. Mike Tyson.

          hi
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 23 August 2013 18: 44 New
            0
            Hm.
            -
            Nah!
            Breathe the hay!
            And about tomorrow _ DO NOT WAIT FOR A HAMSTER!

            Russia was, is and will be !
    3. KOH
      KOH 22 August 2013 17: 20 New
      +8
      The picture is just SUPER ...
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 23 August 2013 19: 28 New
        +2
        Quote: CON
        The picture is just SUPER ..

        Comment on this

        In which I fully support all of FOR, though there was one Mr. N and D
        1. SlavaP
          SlavaP 25 August 2013 23: 30 New
          +2
          One small inaccuracy. The EU flag should not be on this prophetic picture - will fall apart earlier bully
    4. The comment was deleted.
  7. Vtel
    Vtel 22 August 2013 15: 48 New
    10
    Immediately after signing the document, Yeltsin phoned US President George W. Bush and reported what had happened (which, incidentally, made him awkward).


    Reported to a superior owner.
    "And now Humpback! I said Humpback!"

    Meanwhile, on December 25, 1991, Russia was renamed the Russian Federation. In the evening of the same day, Gorbachev called US President George W. Bush and assured in a telephone conversation: “You can safely celebrate Christmas. The USSR no longer exists. ”


    And 30 silver coins in their pocket.
  8. Leader
    Leader 22 August 2013 15: 51 New
    24
    Hopefully, I will live to see the demolition of the monuments to Yeltsin and his mafia, and the remaining "crap-perestroika" will be caught on the streets to be handed over to the people's tribunal.
    And it is not necessary to say that "there will be no return."
    But the former SS men recognized their recognition in the Baltic states - who could have imagined such a thing 25 years ago?
    And I will educate my grandchildren in the same spirit!
    1. Naum
      Naum 22 August 2013 17: 03 New
      -24
      It was already. They caught "enemies of the people" on the street - they could not stop. Half of the country was in the camps. How did it end?
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 22 August 2013 18: 19 New
        +5
        Quote: Naum
        Half the country in the camps sat

        You counted it by the number of your seated relatives or from reliable sources?
        I do not deny the presence of the Gulag, but the archives have a long memory and the numbers there are orders of magnitude smaller.
        Moreover, even Solzhenitsen, on the basis of his own considerations (!?), Issued 60 million dollars.
  9. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 22 August 2013 15: 55 New
    10
    “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to triumph in the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, traitors were found. ”
    That's for sure! We took advantage of the confusion and poor awareness of the people of the USSR and quickly cooked everything up in the bathhouse .. And then went a powerful info.war (as I recall what they said in the media ..) It can now be compared to analyze from a pile of shit that pours on us and then it was not ..party local authorities waited and waited for instructions ..and waited ... (((((
  10. Garrin
    Garrin 22 August 2013 16: 02 New
    13
    “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to triumph in the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, traitors were found. ”

    And the saddest thing is that they now, in today's Russia, have remained in power.
  11. erased
    erased 22 August 2013 16: 03 New
    13
    And now the main thing is that the traitors are still in power or retired. They were replaced by new traitors, they continue the work of their predecessors and finish off Russia, sorry - the Russian Federation. Apparently soon a new bell will ring in the White House and the next traitor will report to the US president - you can sleep peacefully, the Russian Federation is no more! And the Russians will soon be gone! Then the whole tolerant world will breathe quietly and continue on its way to nowhere! Amen...
    1. smile
      smile 22 August 2013 17: 30 New
      +3
      erased
      Do you really think that Pu will call back to the Capitol? :))) And you don’t think that if it weren’t for Pu, then Russia would have already collapsed long ago — the continuation of the ebn policy was a direct path to the collapse of the country. If Putin was a traitor, he simply would not have to change anything, everything was falling apart ... but now the situation is completely different ...
      1. vlum
        vlum 22 August 2013 18: 57 New
        +4
        Yes, it’s just a shame that it’s still far from being completely different from the past in our situation. Trying to resist, and that's good. There is movement towards the restoration of the Union — even better. But they interfere and harm a lot.
        1. smile
          smile 22 August 2013 19: 09 New
          0
          vlum
          Well. I agree with you absolutely ... and it offends me.
    2. ksan
      ksan 23 August 2013 02: 06 New
      +2
      You are wrong if you are hinting at the "traitor" Putin) He proved by his own deeds who HE is. And if today the whole "liberal" Western and even our riffraff covers him with the last words, this is the best indicator that he is doing everything right and WE are the right way wink
  12. stroporez
    stroporez 22 August 2013 16: 03 New
    +8
    "........ the overwhelming majority of the population (more than 80%) supported the preservation of the Union ............." modern Russia began with the fact that it was "put" on the people, and continues ..... and "representatives of the interests of the people" they are Toko for the sake of joke ...... almost convinced, sho and vovan and all the others are supposedly joking among themselves ---- "count up, people think we represent his interests .. ...... boo-ha-ha ....... "
  13. slaventi
    slaventi 22 August 2013 16: 13 New
    15
    Today they are trying to convince us that the death of the USSR at the time of the signing of the Belovezhsky Agreement was already predetermined. “One can argue whether the collapse of the USSR was a geopolitical catastrophe caused by the insidious intrigues of the enemy, or a boon to most of the former republics of the Union,” read Vedomosti in today's editorial. - However, the leaders of the three Slavic republics only recorded the death of the state from the rapidly progressing paralysis and the inoperability of bureaucratic structures. Neither the army, nor the KGB, nor the leaders of other republics of the USSR or republican communist parties tried to actively counteract the breakup of the Union. ”

    There were no prerequisites for the fall of the Soviet Union before Gorbachev took office ... not economic, not political. The liquidation of the USSR was a special operation of the Western special services in which agent Gorbachev played a key role. The anti-alcohol company brought a huge amount of money when the vineyards were cut down. economic damage, sabotage, .At the same time, there was propaganda processing of the population with the help of state media, in order to sow enmity between peoples, undermine confidence in the authorities, people were indoctrinated that the USSR was not a viable entity. The apotheosis was the "August putsch" played out like clockwork. In the Silaev government, Yeltsin had American advisers already during the existence of the USSR. Yeltsin was a direct protege of the United States.
    The Soviet Union fell as a result of the betrayal of Gorbachev and part of the ruling elite.
    1. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 26 August 2013 00: 20 New
      0
      200 percent share your opinion !!!
  14. fellow misha
    fellow misha 22 August 2013 16: 20 New
    17
    What is still doing this drunkard's tripe in the Russian land, load it into a cannon and shoot towards the west, let it lie where it deserves it, I hope our descendants will do it for his "merits".
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 22 August 2013 16: 26 New
      14
      Quote: comrade Misha
      What is still doing the tripe of this drunkard in the Russian land, load into a cannon and shoot in the direction of the west, let him lie where he deserved

      And for one and "tagged" riding on the core to send.
    2. S-200
      S-200 22 August 2013 16: 31 New
      +7
      Quote: comrade Misha
      What is still doing this drunkard's tripe in the Russian land, load it into a cannon and shoot towards the west, let it lie where it deserves it, I hope our descendants will do it for his "merits".

      Let it lie where it lies, and ...
      It is necessary to charge - now the surviving order bearer of St. Andrew the First-Called!
      Union - it has collapsed!
      1. Hauser
        Hauser 22 August 2013 17: 07 New
        +2

        Dig, dig! And delivery vehicles are even more modern. Only so that the descendants would know about the attitude of their contemporaries towards the traitor. And let him tagged a place near Berezovsky looking for. There is no place for them on Russian soil.
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 25 August 2013 18: 33 New
          0
          Quote: HAUSER
          Dig, dig!

          This is not Slavic.
          According to Slavyansk - so that not a trace of the grave remains - just roll up asphalt. Or bury someone on top. From "in law".
    3. Naum
      Naum 22 August 2013 17: 07 New
      +6
      This "tripe" was specially covered with a tricolor so that "admirers" could not relieve themselves at the grave! Another Judas is living out his life in grateful Germany and will be buried there. They will find a place in Treptower Park to offend the Heroes ...
    4. Airman
      Airman 22 August 2013 21: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: comrade misha
      What is still doing this drunkard's tripe in the Russian land, load it into a cannon and shoot towards the west, let it lie where it deserves it, I hope our descendants will do it for his "merits".

      And the EBNovskaya daughter had already fallen over the hill and received citizenship, sensed that the star would come soon.
  15. onegin61
    onegin61 22 August 2013 16: 24 New
    -22
    Great good article in the spirit of the socialist times. I have been living for a long time, I captured Stalin a little, so I have the right to say: come to your senses at that time - they said one thing, thought another, but did the third, and God forbid not in the light of the decisions of the CPSU or against the enemy of the people. The USSR is an artificial creation, which rested on handouts, privileges and simply direct pressure on the outskirts and to the detriment of the main population under the wild slogan of "friendship of peoples." I traveled, I know, there was no friendship, everything was like in a communal apartment, everyone lives, endures, but dreams of leaving at an opportunity. Therefore, what was artificially created naturally disintegrated. To regret it or to rejoice - from the beginning, those who separated were happy, like children who were released from care, but difficulties began, they thought that before that there was a freebie, and now everything is for an adult, but history has gone back.
    1. Proud.
      Proud. 22 August 2013 17: 44 New
      +5
      Quote: Onegin61
      they said one thing, thought another, and did the third

      Of course, of course. Now everything has "changed" - all are "straightforward", to the point of indecency, in words, deeds and actions.
      Quote: Onegin61
      against - enemy of the people

      Yes, from December 25, 1991, they stopped shooting in the yards.
      Quote: Onegin61
      USSR - artificial creation

      Any state is an artificial creation.
      Quote: Onegin61
      handouts, privileges and just direct pressure on the outskirts and to the detriment of the main population under the wild slogan "friendship of peoples."

      Now this does not exist? Exists, though they are no longer pressing on the "outskirts".
      Quote: Onegin61
      it was like in a communal apartment, everyone lives, endures, but they dream of parting at an opportunity
      They have dispersed, have their own apartments, but stubbornly stick to neighbors, often without their invitation. The neighbor's "apartment" is bigger, warmer, more comfortable and the refrigerator is more spacious. "Guests" consider this unfair and insistently ask to make room.
      Quote: Onegin61
      naturally disintegrated
      No, not naturally.
    2. smile
      smile 22 August 2013 17: 50 New
      +6
      onegin61
      The USSR is an ordinary successor to the Russian Empire, and its state structure does not matter. Or do you think that all of Russia and our entire history is an artificial formation?
      You are much older than me. because I will be extremely correct, although I really do not want to ....
      How is it that your worldview is still contaminated with perestroika mythology?
      Look, even in this statement you mention privileges .... do you really think that these miserable food products and wretched State dachas, which were provided to those who had a higher social status, were of such fundamental importance? Well, look how these people live now, do you like it? By the way, officials and those in power and in the West live much better than some .... this is a common thing.
      You mention the pressure on the outskirts and at the same time - "to the detriment of the main population under the wild slogan" friendship of peoples ".... you really do not see that you contradict yourself in this statement?
      Yes, we really, to the detriment of the RSFSR, developed the outskirts ... what is the pressure? That we forcibly developed them? By the way. even in the Baltics, local internationalists were previously quite enough. it was they who fulfilled the noble task of cleansing their republics from fascist nationalists ...
      Mostly they dreamed of dispersing idiots who came under hostile propaganda and did not understand. that it is thanks to the USSR that they live tolerably well, and without it they would live in a garbage dump .... they are still alive in the majority only thanks to the gigantic means that they spent on their development in the USSR. And at the same time, there were no fewer people who were ready to lay down their lives for leaving the republics within the USSR.
      1. onegin61
        onegin61 22 August 2013 18: 16 New
        -3
        If the leadership had not sent colossal funds to the outskirts, did not stimulate their priority development, they would have fled if they had an opportunity if they had not been afraid of the consequences. And propaganda has nothing to do with it-mentality.
      2. onegin61
        onegin61 22 August 2013 18: 43 New
        0
        We considered the suburbs to be their peoples, they did not consider ourselves that they were ours and on the outskirts of Russia there was a completely different attitude than the generally accepted one. Everyone knew, saw, endured and applied the carrot and stick method.
        1. smile
          smile 22 August 2013 19: 25 New
          +3
          onegin61
          I repeat, the USSR is the assignee of the Russian Empire. Is RI also an artificial education?
          To a large extent, the outskirts developed not only for political reasons, but also because of expediency in the interests of the whole country.
          Who was going to scatter? Ukrainian Bandera. which made pitiful percentages of the population of Ukraine. Baltic fascists? So there was a lot of scooters of the Union. Take an interest in how basically their national cadres destroyed the fascist bandit underground in the Baltic, actively supported by the West. What do you think that the Lithuanian hawks (they called themselves so) who fought to death in the forests with the Lithuanian fascists before the fifties were supporters of scattering? What is their mentality? It was a real civil war. But people were dying. to be part of a single country .... and you are talking about the mentality ...
          I repeat once again - you are an example of a victim of perestroika brechology ... very sorry.
          There is a gorgeous Lithuanian film - "Nobody Wanted to Die". You should have watched it. Reconsider - there is absolute truth.
    3. vlasov70
      vlasov70 22 August 2013 20: 48 New
      +1
      Names, surnames, attendance at the studio, otherwise "I traveled, I know", you (you) did not go alone, and you (you) alone know!
    4. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 26 August 2013 00: 37 New
      +1
      Regarding the pressure on the outskirts, I lived on the outskirts for 35 years, and here's what I saw: in the shops there are color TVs (except Rubin of all brands), tape recorders and more, choose what you like. And in Russia, televisions recorded in the queue for BW. And so in almost everything, is that how we pressed them ?! Yes, they always lived at the expense of Russia!
      I remember how in the late 80s, during the growth of "national self-awareness", they cried at the Central Television that they were not allowed to listen to national music or watch films in their native language. At that time, there were 2 channels in Uzbekistan: 1- CT and 2-Tashkent, and so on channel 2 there were 2 programs in Russian - news at 18.00 and like good night kids (with local flavor), when football was shown for 15 minutes each alternated Russian and Uzbek speakers. This is how we did not allow them to watch and listen to programs in their native language!
      1. Uruska
        Uruska 26 August 2013 14: 22 New
        0
        Truly so! I saw Lenin and Stirlitz speaking Uzbek. Here is joke ...
  16. vovan100
    vovan100 22 August 2013 16: 44 New
    -25
    communism should have ended, if Romanov hadn’t been banged, Russia would have been richer at times. Now they are trying to support small businesses, and before that they were profiteers. Our standard of living has risen dramatically in twenty years. As in Tsoi’s songs, our hearts demand a change. these changes have happened and this is DEVELOPMENT! but the fact that Gorbachev allowed the collapse of the state is a crime against the people, a betrayal ..... so that's all buzzing)
    1. Manager
      Manager 22 August 2013 17: 05 New
      12
      Quote: vovan100
      our hearts demand a rement.

      The hearts of whom? Youngsters, drug addicts and traitors?
    2. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 22 August 2013 17: 58 New
      +1
      We wanted the best, but it turned out as always!
    3. smile
      smile 22 August 2013 18: 01 New
      +5
      vovan100
      Romanov was thrown off the throne and put under arrest by Democrats and Liberals ... who ruined the country ... and only then the Reds came ... and banged him like he had no meaning ... if he had been used as a temporary bogeyman - Some of the forces of the white movement, acting on the basis of the results, in favor of a country of the Entente. it would simply have killed some more people. we would have suffered some more damage .... and that’s it ...
      Choi. Yes, yes, yes, there was a time some yelled about the changes ... now the majority pulls the last hair out of the ass from the fact that they are offended by what idiots they were ..... finished ....
    4. mole
      mole 22 August 2013 20: 18 New
      +2
      There is no subjunctive history! If yes
    5. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 22 August 2013 22: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: vovan100
      if Romanov hadn’t been banged, Russia would have been many times richer

      If Romanov had not been banged, then Russia would now be, at best, within the borders of Muscovy.
  17. avia12005
    avia12005 22 August 2013 16: 46 New
    +6
    Humpback is late with Kravchuk and Shushkevich am
  18. maestro123
    maestro123 22 August 2013 16: 51 New
    +4
    Quote: vovan100
    and these changes have happened and this is DEVELOPMENT!

    Announce the entire list of breakthroughs in development (not on the foundation of the USSR)?
    1. vovan100
      vovan100 22 August 2013 17: 00 New
      -19
      Yes, I know about what you are about a market economy. You would now go to Moscow and look for a differential gasket for a crane)))
      1. ksan
        ksan 23 August 2013 02: 39 New
        +2
        vovan100 ↑

        Yes, I know about what you are about a market economy. You would now go to Moscow and look for a differential gasket for a crane)))
        In order to improve the level and quality of life of the people, it is not necessary to destroy the country. In 86-88, I served in the SA in the South-East Military District in Hungary, too, was a socialist country, but the standard of living of the Hungarians was higher than the Soviet one. There were also private shops and cooperatives and consumer goods and all kinds of the counters are overwhelmed. Or take the same China, they still have the Communists in power and are not going to leave, and the country is the second largest in the world in terms of GDP. So the point is not in ideology, but in the brains of those who pursue this ideology
        1. SlavaP
          SlavaP 25 August 2013 23: 36 New
          0
          Yes and indeed - Janos Kadar strongly advised the Soviet leadership to think a little and learn the Hungarian experience, but no one listened.
      2. stroporez
        stroporez 23 August 2013 13: 40 New
        +1
        NK and are looking for ....... but I wouldn’t think where to get money for education, to improve health, where to get children to work and much more .............
      3. stroporez
        stroporez 23 August 2013 13: 42 New
        0
        Well, I’d be looking ....... but I wouldn’t think where to get money for education, to improve my health, where to arrange children for work and much more .............
      4. dustycat
        dustycat 25 August 2013 18: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: vovan100
        Yes, I know about what you are about a market economy. You would now go to Moscow and look for a differential gasket for a crane)))

        By the way, yes.
        I would go to Moskvich. With airbags, injector, air conditioning and prob.
        Gasket for the tap ?! I would have bought from cooperators. They always had them.
        Yes, and before them were. And the price was a check for ten.
        But the water pipes supplied to the USSR are still standing. No holes.
        And pipes after 1993 - they have not stood for more than five years - rust through and through. Even in SNiP, their service life was changed (in SNiP of the times of the USSR 20 years, in SNiP 1998 - 15 years, in SNiP 2004 - 10 years, in SNiP 2008 - seven (!) Years).
        Even Chinese steel pipes are better than domestic ones.
  19. Spike
    Spike 22 August 2013 16: 52 New
    +6
    The collapse of the USSR showed many who fed whom. It is a pity that we still learn from our mistakes! It’s a pity that a handful of grabbers tore such a country, and we ...
  20. atos_kin
    atos_kin 22 August 2013 16: 52 New
    +5
    Union to be!
    1. Naum
      Naum 22 August 2013 17: 10 New
      +5
      Be a Russian power! With provinces instead of fucking republics!
  21. 6 sunrise 9
    6 sunrise 9 22 August 2013 16: 52 New
    11
    I especially read the article only the first paragraph.

    Well what can I say, our great-grandfathers and grandfathers paid with blood for the USSR to exist ... but their children and grandchildren didn’t hit a finger on this for this in 1991. And it seems like a superpower, with a strong army and power structures, the KGB and it seems like all the patriots still say the USSR was the best country.
    Yes, they just sold the country, mostly you sold young people for jeans, chewing gum, cola. The leaders of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union who got their piece and even the "province". The people did nothing to stop the collapse of the USSR, the army swallowed it all and also did nothing.
    Three pedaras in Belovezhskaya Pushcha announced to the whole country that this country was no longer there, and they all swallowed it. Why were these people not arrested, and not sent to the tribunal for treason? why the people didn’t go to the barricades ... and although not, he went ... in Moscow ... for Yeltsin and bullshit.

    Everyone says thanks for the collapse of the union Gorbachev, Yeltsin and the liberal Ko. Yes, they are to blame, they need to be shot .. but to be shot in 1991, and preferably in 1989.

    I want to say thank you for the silent (and not only) support of these people to the entire Soviet people. Thank you comrades for letting the USSR collapse.

    I don’t know this country personally, and I never lived in it, I was born in 1995.
    1. smile
      smile 22 August 2013 18: 11 New
      +5
      6 sunrise 9
      May I correct you a little bit?
      ... at that time I was a "youth" ... yes, I liked jeans and chewing gum (with this I had order - dad went to sea), but my worldview has not changed since then ... on the contrary, the longer I live, the more I am convinced that our propaganda spoke about Western countries and "damned imperialists ... :)))" the truth ... so that I was not sold, it was simply never a determining factor for me to assess my homeland, the presence or absence of jeans ... and young people had nothing to do with the collapse of the country, it was done by those who were still older ... those who raised these young people ..
  22. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 22 August 2013 16: 54 New
    +5
    Quote: a52333
    With all the bitterness, I put the CIA +, I put it - the KGB of the USSR. Could pick up the snipers.

    As far as I remember, there were snipers, they only shot the crowd (with the putsch).
    James Baker, the then US Secretary of State, openly stated for the first time: “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to triumph in the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, traitors were found. ”

    I don’t even want to talk about traitors, only for memory and for treating them in accordance with their essence. The main thing is that every resident of Russia now knows this, even if the opponents talk about it.
    1. smile
      smile 22 August 2013 18: 15 New
      +5
      Yuri I
      During the events. that then they dubbed the putsch only three drunken idiots who crawled under the BMP died ... no snipers shot at any crowd ... although it might have been worth the suppression of the mess, it could have saved millions of lives ...
  23. denson06
    denson06 22 August 2013 16: 55 New
    +5
    After that, President Bush spoke on radio and television in the United States, declaring that the USSR had been defeated by the Cold War, and the then US Secretary of State James Baker openly stated: “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to win the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, there were traitors. ”

    He said everything in two lines .. about who, how and why was brought to power in the country ..
    The caricature of the article is bold, however .. probably the State Department painted, chuckling wildly at the same time ..
  24. Zhylaw
    Zhylaw 22 August 2013 16: 57 New
    +9
    I think that participation in the destruction of the USSR should be prosecuted as a crime against humanity, for which there is no statute of limitations.
    In addition, the blame for this should be regarded as inherited by the descendants of the criminals. The law should prosecute blood relatives of traitors.
    See how the Jews for decades to catch Nazi criminals and do not intend to forgive. It is time to avenge the USSR.
    First of all, traitors and their families and heirs. Then came the United States and its vassals around the world, especially in Eastern Europe. There are no innocents.
    1. Manager
      Manager 22 August 2013 17: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: Zhylaw
      I think that participation in the destruction of the USSR should be prosecuted as a crime against humanity, for which there is no statute of limitations.


      First in your country you need to put things in order!
    2. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 22 August 2013 18: 47 New
      +2
      There is nothing to blame for the mirror, if the mug is crooked! By 1991, the CPSU and the state system under its leadership had decayed and began to decompose. Nothing practical was done in the country, the ideological communists were no longer the fate, all the leaders prepared only reports for the next meeting, date, anniversary. Real life and the reports of the country's leadership were diametrically opposed. The party was full of careerists and bastards pursuing personal selfish interests. All this caused disgust and hidden protest from honest people. All our leaders have left that party and have the same vices and will not get any better, they just change their shoes on the go! From the beginning, by necessity, they joined the party, were atheists, then suddenly became democrats and true believers, at first they dragged everything, and then they began to make happy for the country, for the people.
      1. Jakob75r
        Jakob75r 27 August 2013 13: 50 New
        0
        I absolutely agree with you, I will add that we are all involved in the collapse of the USSR, by the fact that we did not work, but were engaged in postscripts. Remember the sayings like "wherever you work, just not to work" and "any, even small, work should start with a big smoke break." The backward economy could barely cope with the needs of the defense complex, there was not enough of it for consumer goods, everything was in short supply, people looked with envy at the abundance in the shops of "decaying capitalism", by the way, another popular saying of the mid-80s "capitalism is rotting, but so smells good. "
        Gorbachev did not find the right way to boost the economy, this is his fault in the collapse of the USSR.
  25. chenia
    chenia 22 August 2013 17: 02 New
    +6
    Quote: vovan100
    communism should have ended, had Romanov not been banged, Russia would have been richer at times. now


    If communism would end then, Russia would end in the forties.

    Yes, and present-day Russia (it is a cast of the country until 17 years old) without a Soviet backlog would have ended long ago.

    In Russia now the same greedy, dumb, inept, capricious, frightened corrupt elite that was at the beginning of the century (the only difference is that it is mainly of plebeian origin).
    1. vovan100
      vovan100 22 August 2013 17: 14 New
      -19
      communism is crap, a big sect. where the brains begin to rinse when they dedicate in October
      1. ksan
        ksan 23 August 2013 03: 13 New
        +1
        communism is crap, a big sect. where the brains begin to rinse when they dedicate in October Vovan. You seem too young to know about the October events on your own. Take a word in them there was nothing wrong smile It's like American teenagers only with us. Yes, and read for interest "The moral image of the builder of communism" so it is almost written from the Bible. And what's wrong with the fact that you are from childhood STATE LEVEL taught that you should be honest, fair, help the elderly, play sports, become the defender of your country, study well to be useful to your country. And the country provided you these opportunities for free. So what's wrong with that?
  26. vovan100
    vovan100 22 August 2013 17: 05 New
    -8
    but for those who say that the good industry was created, etc. I agree, but for the country to rebuild, it takes time. And it’s cool to shout that everything was created before, but now we are just feeding on it. Everything develops in To one degree or another, it will develop. We must move forward!
    1. Circle
      Circle 22 August 2013 17: 40 New
      +9
      Take a look at what was done in the USSR in the period from 1945 to 1965, in 20 years. Since the year when a large part of the country lay in ruins after the war. Until the first time in the history of the planet, Alexei Arkhipovich Leonov went into outer space; the time when a significant part of the country moved from barracks to "Khrushchevs", etc. And for two years the Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP was actively under construction (the official full commissioning was in 2000, just in case).

      И honestly compare what has been done and built in the former Soviet republics for the same 20 years "independence" (from whom and from what I would like to know? a rhetorical question).
      1. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 22 August 2013 19: 15 New
        0
        Many shopping and entertainment centers have been built! belay
    2. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 22 August 2013 19: 14 New
      +1
      Science is in the ass, we can’t do anything new, unfortunately! We live on oil, gas and a "renewable" resource-forest!
    3. vlasov70
      vlasov70 22 August 2013 20: 56 New
      +2
      "Communism is a mess": what do you know about communism and life in the USSR? Share your experience. Can we really understand that this is crap?
    4. QWERTY
      QWERTY 22 August 2013 21: 01 New
      +2
      Yeah, you somehow developed ... some mistakes. Aren't you ashamed? Actually, the current general illiteracy is killing. The first wife couldn’t even write SMS without errors, although a thoroughbred Russian from the Tver region ((((
    5. wax
      wax 22 August 2013 23: 17 New
      +3
      for the country to rebuild, it takes time

      How long does it take? For comparison: 19 years have passed from the end of the Civil to the Patriotic War, 16 years have passed from the end of the Patriotic War to the flight of Gagarin (earlier than in the States!). 28 years have passed since the beginning of perestroika, 22 years from the Bialowieza Agreements. Plus, you need to consider completely different initial conditions.
      And finally, the fact is that Russia has still not reached the 1989 level in terms of production.
      And for starters, the gap with the United States has narrowed, and now it is widening.
  27. Zhylaw
    Zhylaw 22 August 2013 17: 20 New
    +3
    Quote: Manager
    First in your country you need to put things in order!


    Order and peace will be in all countries. The mess just started from Moscow in 1991, so a new order must be started from there.
  28. maestro123
    maestro123 22 August 2013 17: 21 New
    +7
    Quote: vovan100
    . I about the market economy. you would now go to Muscovite and look for a differential gasket for the crane)))

    The crane would be reliable and I would not look for a gasket to it, but I would travel on Moscow to save the state)))
    By the way, you forgot about the MADE IN USSR commander’s watch.
    1. vovan100
      vovan100 22 August 2013 17: 26 New
      +3
      Yes, there were a lot of outstanding things, you can’t count everything to be honest) proud of the past, but they won’t get hung up on it hi
    2. Proud.
      Proud. 22 August 2013 20: 04 New
      +3
      Quote: maestro123
      Commander Watch MADE IN USSR.

      They serve as a reference, manufactured in 1985, my father’s watch. A gilded case, mechanics, luminous hands. Now this grandfather’s watch is worn by his grandson, my son.
  29. chenia
    chenia 22 August 2013 17: 32 New
    +4
    Quote: vovan100
    no shouting that everything was created before, but now we are just feeding on it. Everything is developing to one degree or another and will be developing. We must move forward!


    I agree, done. But to develop science, industry, agriculture, the army and at the same time also the social sphere does not work.

    Several new tanks and planes a year in the army (and what would have happened without the Soviet backlog). And in industry, new technologies are not very noticeable (well, at least not in those quantities).

    And at the same time have huge (incomparably large with Soviet times) income from natural resources.

    But now, while the states have a problem (China), there is a chance to make a significant breakthrough. Moreover, the revolution is not necessary.

    Enough for a start to create a situation where in the list of Magnitsky (or some kind of horseradish) were all the officials and businessmen of Russia.

    The inability to get down with money will provide a truly PATRIOTIC both foreign and domestic policy of the elite (where the hell they go).
    1. vlum
      vlum 22 August 2013 19: 08 New
      +1
      The idea is right. But on the other hand, in addition to political talkers, there are also cunning businessmen, and therefore we will not wait for them to abandon the free money that falls off :)
  30. maestro123
    maestro123 22 August 2013 17: 34 New
    +1
    Quote: vovan100
    . Everything is developing to one degree or another and will be developing. We must move forward!

    Nobody has canceled Darwin's theory, only labor makes a man out of a monkey ...
  31. drummer 2013
    drummer 2013 22 August 2013 17: 38 New
    +7
    The names of all traitors should be spelled out in the Russian history textbook.
    1. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 22 August 2013 22: 18 New
      +2
      I agree. Let's try to jointly create a list of traitors, taking into account their "contribution". Let's create at least a virtual "black" board of traitors to begin with.
      1. wax
        wax 22 August 2013 23: 27 New
        +1
        Fill out the top ten:
        1-2. Gobachev
        2-1. Yeltsin
        3. Shevardnadze
        4 Kozyrev
        5. Burbulis
        6. Shahrai
        7. Chubais
        8. Gaidar
        9. Grachev
        10. Erin
  32. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 22 August 2013 17: 38 New
    +5
    “We have spent trillions of dollars over the past 40 years to triumph in the Cold War against the USSR. Most importantly, traitors were found. "

    And he never doubted that the collapse of the USSR was a huge operation by foreign intelligence services. Here is another confirmation.
  33. i'm from texas
    i'm from texas 22 August 2013 17: 44 New
    +4
    Gorbach must be judged before it’s too late .. The cattle will die, it will be too late.
    1. KOH
      KOH 22 August 2013 18: 12 New
      +1
      And according to old Russian on a goat count ...
  34. vostok1982
    vostok1982 22 August 2013 17: 55 New
    +2
    If anyone remembers our eternal tactics that have brought Russia victory since the time of the most legendary Rus, let the enemy go deeper into their country, break them down and then drive them to the very enemy capital. If you imagine the look of descendants, for example, the 22nd century, on the events of the end of the 20th beginning of the 21st centuries, then it is easy to imagine that everything that happened in 1991 was just such a trick. The enemy sat in Moscow, in its very heart, as if during the time of the Poles, entrenched in the Kremlin. The enemy triumphed, he wiped his feet on Russia and believed that he, the American, had achieved what Teuton, Gall, Lyakh, Swede and others could not, about which we do not even know, because in their times and writing there wasn’t , and their names from oral memory were erased. The American appointed ministers, chose whom to be a billionaire and to decide fate. The scoundrel was rubbing his hands, constantly sweating, he, not believing himself, counted time after time the riches that had come to him so on time - after all, his homeland exerted strength, in an insane attempt to cope with the USSR by force and overstrained, turning from a world creditor into a world debtor. With a distraught look of happiness, he watched ships, planes and locomotives exporting gold, machine tools, weapons, and most importantly - drawings and documents ...
    The scoundrel laughed, in a crazy impulse, dancing a jig on the bones of millions who died not from bullets and shells, but died a dastardly death from hunger and cold ...
    The scoundrel imagined that from now on he alone would rule the world, and that he would never need to restrain the impulses of his irrepressible greed - he would be able to take what he wanted and kill whom he wanted.
    Looking around with a grin of superiority the red walls of the Kremlin, the scoundrel forgot that before him there were those who considered their work perfect, and the victory over Russia was final ...
    And to our great-grandson from the 22nd century, the defeated American who has left the world stage will be as curious and at the same time disgusting, like the Frenchman, the German, Lyakh and his other stupid predecessors. And our great-grandson will think: "Didn't they read history books? Didn't they know what happened to those who were at enmity with Russia? Or maybe the Lord deliberately deprived them of their reason in order to punish and set an example for those living after them. Apparently in vain. And before the very unification of mankind will be those who consider themselves stronger than Russia and will be thrown into the dust ... "
    1. onegin61
      onegin61 22 August 2013 18: 33 New
      0
      The script is good, you can make a movie right, only where is that Malchish nicknamed Kibalchish, who knows what to do and where to go, and so that no one can handle him
  35. individual
    individual 22 August 2013 18: 34 New
    +1
    Is it possible that the Soviet people defeated German national fascism so that nationalism flourished in the territory of the USSR: Chechen, Dagestan, Tatar, Bashkir, Buryat. All nations except Russian self-consciousness suppressed by the authorities!
  36. nemec55
    nemec55 22 August 2013 19: 05 New
    +3
    in the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR, either 5 or 6 out of two and a half hundred deputies voted against; there were even fewer opponents of the document in the Ukrainian parliament, but in the Belarusian Supreme Council only one Alexander Lukashenko voted against

    Alive, I will punish children and grandchildren to respect this person in the grave of life.
    1. KOH
      KOH 22 August 2013 19: 18 New
      +4
      That's whom I respect from all this rumors, but to this dad ... good
      1. vlasov70
        vlasov70 22 August 2013 21: 06 New
        +1
        Respect Old Man is not enough. Something else is needed. For example, our ancestors went into the woods and soaked reptiles. We have precedents, but not massive ones.
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 22 August 2013 23: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: vlasov70
          Respect Old Man is not enough. Something else is needed. For example, our ancestors went into the woods and soaked reptiles. We have precedents, but not massive ones.

          Far Eastern "partisans" are not an example?
      2. grafrozow
        grafrozow 22 August 2013 22: 59 New
        0
        Quote: CON
        That's whom I respect from all this rumors, but to this dad ..
        dad Makhno, or dad of all nations?
        1. KOH
          KOH 23 August 2013 06: 34 New
          +2
          Old Man Lukashenko ...
  37. tank64rus
    tank64rus 22 August 2013 19: 44 New
    +2
    The writer Maxim Gorky wrote that even a typhoid louse would be offended by its comparison with a traitor.
  38. Diviz
    Diviz 22 August 2013 21: 16 New
    0
    we must protect what we create. we’ve been building a new state for 20 years already and we can understand what we need to cherish and value, but this next generation will understand the big question.
  39. denn
    denn 22 August 2013 21: 58 New
    0
    We need to learn from our history, draw conclusions and prevent its new repetitions, which Russia has already passed many times. In the near future, new revolutions will be provoked in Russia. I think this is no secret to anyone.
  40. velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 22 August 2013 22: 28 New
    +1
    I can not resist and again quote Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin:
    "... Russia is not human dust and not chaos. It is, first of all, a great people who did not squander their forces and did not despair in their vocation. This people is starving for free order, for peaceful labor, for property and for national culture. bury him prematurely!

    The historic hour will come, it will rise from an imaginary coffin and demand its rights back!
  41. uizik
    uizik 22 August 2013 22: 34 New
    0
    The collapse of the USSR was influenced by many things, namely, the degradation of the highest echelons of power, venality and betrayal, the deliberate destruction of the country's economy, the subversive activities of the special services. After Brezhnev's death, there were no statesmen capable of leading the country. There were traitors, and the rest is a matter of technology. Slogans like- "Everything that is not prohibited by law is permitted" and "Enrich yourself" finished the country.
  42. grafrozow
    grafrozow 22 August 2013 22: 56 New
    0
    The lot of all empires is the collapse and the civil war. Roman, Ottoman, Russian, Soviet ... We won the war, defeated fascism, and in peacetime they managed to fuck up POWER. I don’t understand, the mind of Russia does not understand why and how, there is still no intelligible the answer, we pour sand in the living room ... each other, we measure ourselves with pussies and call it patriotism. The mosque will become tomorrow a "symbol" of Russia, much more. I already give a fuck, I saw the other world and this one, but I want that my grandchildren would grow up not as slaves, but as masters. The Criminal Code of the Russian Federation will not stop me. I hope. the ancestors of Minin and Pozharsky are alive, and whoever is not with us is against us. S. Yesenin-If the holy army clicks, throw Rus, live in paradise, I will say no paradise, give my homeland
  43. Denga
    Denga 22 August 2013 23: 25 New
    0
    Quote: starshina78
    Those who lived then and could think over their actions, that is, were capable, and who are now writing with anger and pain about the collapse of the USSR, remember yourself then. Surely, they went out into the street and shouted: "Hurray! The end of the USSR! The end of the KPSSS" Give freedom! ". I am exaggerating a little, but something like this. I am one of those too. But now I would give a lot to go back and change everything. Who knew then that Yeltsin would bring Russia to the handle by selling everything he could to former Komsomol members and party bosses, To the KGB and cunning Americans, that then he will fill his ambitions in Chechnya with the blood of our children, that we will become impoverished, that in a country where everyone was equal, oligarchs with billions of dollars will appear and poverty, which makes up more than half of the population, that we will lose the army and the fleet, destroying them at the behest of the Americans.


    You, like many others, have a liberal perception of the word "KGB". The KGB, at that time, included the border service, the foreign intelligence service, the federal security service, the federal security service (I call the designations existing at the moment), counterintelligence, etc. EBN was afraid of her, hence the constant reforms and division into relevant services, as a result of which many professionals left the KGB. Why didn't the KGB arrest Yeltsin and K? The same question can be asked to the military. The answer will be simple, and the KGB and the Ministry of Defense are military organizations and nothing is done there without an order. In the USSR, unfortunately, the "roof" is rotten, that's why the country has flooded with blood, poverty and crime. And our disciplined special service could do nothing against the leaders of the country.
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 23 August 2013 00: 06 New
      +1
      Denga RU Today, 23:25 PM
      Good evening, dear, I do not know how to call you by name!

      Let's not lump all the BIG definition of "KGB" together.

      I personally have a heavy heart for the "Rotten top of the KGB", which, in my opinion, started all this Perestroika, just the greedy and vain Gorbachev turned out to be a suitable and easily controlled ACTOR.

      With all this, both border guards and security officers inside the country, intelligence officers and employees abroad, all worked for the UNION!
      And they have nothing to be ashamed of the name CHEKIST!
      It would be foolish to blame them all for betrayal.

      It is quite possible that at the "middle level of the KGB" there were intelligent and far-ahead looking employees and patriotic specialists, only they could not or were afraid to start STOPPING the Perestroika skating rink on their own.

      In addition, in my opinion, in the "perestroika years" - among the middle and higher KGB officers, mortality was higher compared to pre-adjustment.
      Just for the time being, we have little data and facts from within the KGB.

      True after Perestroika, such as a lot of former KGB officers and their close relativesVERY FAST have become successful entrepreneurs and oligarchs.
      Well, this regrettable and documented fact raises doubts about the high PATRIOTICITY of some KGB officers ...
  44. The comment was deleted.
  45. michajlo
    michajlo 22 August 2013 23: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
    I agree. Let's try to jointly create a list of traitors, taking into account their "contribution". Let's create at least a virtual "black" board of traitors to begin with.

    Good evening, dear "Borey"!

    I join your proposal.
    It would be useful, in addition to collecting the names of the TRAITORS, to look for witnesses, documents, facts. Those. so that besides the personal feeling that this is the CHANGE OF THE MOTHERLAND, we all here, our opinion, could confirm with evidence,
    one personal opinion, even of us many members of the forum, in my opinion is clearly not enough.

    It is only necessary to clarify where it is better to look, in any case, there is still a lot of evidence, but we need to work hard.

    With one empty verbiage here on the VO site, we will not go far!
  46. Druid
    Druid 22 August 2013 23: 59 New
    +1
    A good article, but history does not have a subjunctive mood, the system was already so weak that a handful of traitors could ruin the state, all that follows is that the system has outlived itself.
    The USSR was an empire in which my childhood, adolescence, youth passed, but it has sunk into oblivion, like many empires before and I think in the future. We parted, I don’t regret it, if the agony of the USSR lasted longer it would have ended with even more blood, and Transnistria, Karabakh, a couple of outbreaks in Central Asia are cruel, but with the number of the then USSR, the victims of these conflicts are scanty.
    By the time of the collapse of the USSR, the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the army, they were literally castrated by corruption and are incapable of anything other than serving the elite, the same situation in modern Russia, we need to think more about this now, about the present, drawing conclusions from the past, rather than lamenting about him.
    The USSR is no longer on the agenda, Russia, the collapse of which also does not bode well, not only to the Russians themselves, but also to residents of neighboring countries, former Soviet republics.
  47. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 23 August 2013 00: 04 New
    +1
    Mdya ... Mattresses means to blame for everything? And the Committee, it must be understood, was a gathering of the mentally retarded. laughing

    There is a methodological principle - called Okamma's razor - I recommend that you familiarize yourself with it in more detail.

    Could the USSR have been ruined by traitors bribed by the West? Of course.
    Is bribing the West a prerequisite for a group of children holding key positions in the Union to decide to usurp power and public property? No - this is an extra factor complicating the system. Moreover, it is simply impossible to bribe so many people.
    1. rodevaan
      rodevaan 23 August 2013 02: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: Yarosvet
      Mdya ... Mattresses means to blame for everything? And the Committee, it must be understood, was a gathering of the mentally retarded. laughing

      There is a methodological principle - called Okamma's razor - I recommend that you familiarize yourself with it in more detail.

      Could the USSR have been ruined by traitors bribed by the West? Of course.
      Is bribing the West a prerequisite for a group of children holding key positions in the Union to decide to usurp power and public property? No - this is an extra factor complicating the system. Moreover, it is simply impossible to bribe so many people.


      “You think so in vain.” Bribing all these people will cost Pin-gettin cheaper than keeping one F-15 mothballs, and these people can break dirt, dermis and firewood after bribing, so that no F-15 could handle it.
      Another thing is that in the country there are forces that do not depend on any livestock that are at the head of the country, but work autonomously for the interests of the country.
      That is why these forces allowed the collapse of the Union with some scumbags - it is not clear.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 23 August 2013 14: 23 New
        0
        Quote: rodevaan
        - You think so in vain. Bribery of all these people will cost Pin-gettin cheaper than maintaining one mothball F-15
        This is at least several tens of thousands of people who had almost everything - there was only no right of ownership and inheritance of this "almost everything" - to bribe them all is not only very expensive, but also impossible in principle.

        That is why these forces allowed the collapse of the Union with some scumbags - it is not clear.
        So think about it.
        And then you have a strange logic - you reject the only possible explanation, you cannot offer any other explanation, but continue to insist that the only possible explanation is incorrect.

        Understand the simple obvious thing: in order for the thief to steal, he does not need to be persuaded to do this from anyone.
    2. Cynic
      Cynic 23 August 2013 19: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Yarosvet
      There is a methodological principle - Okamma's razor is called

      So what ?
      Quote: Yarosvet
      A group of guys holding key posts in the Union decided to usurp power and public property?

      And when did this group sit in these chairs? More precisely, who pushed them / put them there?
      My opinion _ Confused, scared and surrendered everything and everything that would save the skin!
      Next elementary option _ Spiders in a jar.
      wink
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 23 August 2013 20: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Cynic
        So what ?
        And that’s all. The presence in the Western system as the main reason for the collapse of the USSR is excessive.

        And when did this group sit in these chairs? More precisely, who pushed them / put them there?
        Those who could do this without attracting the attention of the relevant structures.

        My opinion _ Confused, scared and surrendered everything and everything that would save the skin!
        Who exactly?

        Next elementary option _ Spiders in a jar.
        Too many nonrandom accidents preceded a change of order; beneficiaries are too obvious.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Cynic
          Cynic 24 August 2013 18: 04 New
          0
          Quote: Yarosvet
          The presence in the Western system as the main reason for the collapse of the USSR is excessive.

          And to what values ​​did they call us and what examples of a happy life led?
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Those who could do this without attracting the attention of the relevant structures.

          Is it not a PDA?
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Who exactly?

          Do not try to sound different from who you are. Уж на бестолочь You have nothing at all in common! Not familiar for the first month. laughing
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Too many nonrandom accidents preceded a change of order; beneficiaries are too obvious.

          Sorry, but was there a conspiracy or not? That presence of the West in the scheme is redundant, then no!
          If talking about an internal conspiracy stakeholder groupthen _ The Circus left, and the clowns remained?
          Look at our billionaires, because they are now designated billionaires !
          Where are those who disagree with the fact that they have already been appointed, I do not need to remind of them.
          Those people who could do this. and so had essentially unlimited power.
          Remind about Gorbi’s personnel reorganization?
  48. Denga
    Denga 23 August 2013 01: 49 New
    +3
    Quote: michajlo
    Denga RU Today, 23:25 PM
    Good evening, dear, I do not know how to call you by name!

    Let's not lump all the BIG definition of "KGB" together.

    I personally have a heavy heart for the "Rotten top of the KGB", which, in my opinion, started all this Perestroika, just the greedy and vain Gorbachev turned out to be a suitable and easily controlled ACTOR.

    With all this, both border guards and security officers inside the country, intelligence officers and employees abroad, all worked for the UNION!
    And they have nothing to be ashamed of the name CHEKIST!
    It would be foolish to blame them all for betrayal.

    It is quite possible that at the "middle level of the KGB" there were intelligent and far-ahead looking employees and patriotic specialists, only they could not or were afraid to start STOPPING the Perestroika skating rink on their own.

    In addition, in my opinion, in the "perestroika years" - among the middle and higher KGB officers, mortality was higher compared to pre-adjustment.
    Just for the time being, we have little data and facts from within the KGB.

    True after Perestroika, such as a lot of former KGB officers and their close relativesVERY FAST have become successful entrepreneurs and oligarchs.
    Well, this regrettable and documented fact raises doubts about the high PATRIOTICITY of some KGB officers ...


    Good evening.
    Let's point by point.
    The good work of the special services is never visible, but mistakes are clearly visible. In the USSR, terrorism, as such, was not blown up at home, planes were not hijacked, and they knew about drugs in the USSR only from foreign films. The Russian Federation cannot boast of such a level, the full range was in the 90s, now, it seems, it has become a little easier.
    I don’t know what is the reason for your heavy heart towards the so-called "Rotten KGB elite", since I respect the domestic special services, but I think that the KGB did not ruin the country. The simple question of who Gorbachev is and why he lives in Britain is understood by most, but there is no documentary evidence of his work (I mean for whom). The power of the secretary general in the USSR was unlimited, I think this is one of the reasons for the silence of the KGB, for which an order or instruction has always been primary.
    I want to note that the sweeping okhal of special services began precisely with the collapse of the union, under the cries of mass repression. For a couple of decades, this country has not given anything good, as you see.
    Regarding former KGB officers and their close relatives. who became entrepreneurs and oligarchs, I personally don’t know about such people, but I know examples when the current FSB officers killed children in hot spots, fulfilling their constitutional duty to protect the country.
    1. michajlo
      michajlo 23 August 2013 13: 10 New
      +1
      Denga RU Today, 01:49 PM
      Good afternoon, dear,
      Sorry, I don’t know how to call you by name!
      Thank you for your note on my statement and calm paragraph by paragraph statement of your thoughts.
      I think it’s normal when people agree on something, and in some issues they have different views and conclusions. We are not pencils from the box.
      Regarding the fact that the General Sec has a lot of power, this is a fact.
      I am not an expert on the special services, I did not work in them. However, when he became interested in the very process of changing the government, to a new social system, which is 180 degrees. differed from the previous one, and most importantly, that all these "velvet revolutions", Perestroika were "planned and organized."
      Randomness and waiting what will happen tomorrow from the "main actors" / known to the public, in my opinion, was nowhere, with the exception of Romania and the death of Ceausescu and his wife.

      Many interesting facts about how the "Velvet Revolution" was actually carried out in Czechoslovakia can be found here: http://www.analyza.wz.cz/ where in the Czech article "Analysis of November 17 and the changes in Eastern Europe in 1989 "Its author Miroslav Doleyshi, a former political prisoner in the 50s and 70s in the CFSR, describes his vision step by step of" changes 1985-89 ", which he confirms with documentary facts (not guesswork).

      And there the role of STB / a subsidiary of the KGB special services and the KGB officers themselves in the CSFR is described in great detail. After getting acquainted with the facts given in the general view and the obvious lack of principle of the "secret", it makes you wonder how it all happened in reality, could there have been all these changes, and most importantly the CONSEQUENCES for the heroes of the "revolutions" of 1989 throughout Eastern Europe - only by random events, or Is it a chain of interconnected steps with far-reaching plans and intentions? Translation into Russian of this interesting analysis, I will finish soon and send to the Admins of the site, for publication on VO.
      If this translation is published (of which I am not sure yet?), Then we can exchange opinions and I will try to answer every question from the members of the forum in Czechoslovakia (1989-1993-2000), since I have been living in Slovakia for two decades soon and know a little details of local landscapes. Sincerely, Mikhailo.
  49. rodevaan
    rodevaan 23 August 2013 06: 55 New
    +4
    Our grandfather, a staunch communist, a party member, who worked in the field on a tractor all his life and believed in bright ideals, told us - in 1991, when the union collapsed - “Wait, rejoice and jump, remember the Union and all our victories with a kind word in your time, and more than once! "

    As in the water looked.
  50. KOH
    KOH 23 August 2013 06: 57 New
    +2
    Quote: Naum
    It was already. They caught "enemies of the people" on the street - they could not stop. Half of the country was in the camps. How did it end?


    But some doubts take me that everyone was guilty without fault, I don’t argue that there were excesses, but they don’t say how many enemies of the people really were, if they really weren’t at all, the big question ...
    1. Tver
      Tver 23 August 2013 15: 02 New
      0
      "Enemies of the people" are those who did not fit into certain schemes. The Marxists-Leninists believed that they were grave-seekers and they could be mowed down like a weed. And also the "red commanders" ... Literate people, participants in the October coup, could easily change power. Just as the Wehrmacht generals staged an attempt on Hitler's life when Germany began to lose war, the "red marshals" would easily overthrow Stalin.