What is behind the next "trade war" between Moscow and Kiev

225


As you know, politics always actively influences the economic development of a country, primarily because it is itself a means of solving economic problems. And the economy, of course, is the material basis of politics. Kiev’s decision to sign an association agreement with the European Union in November of this year is a direct rejection of Moscow’s proposal to Ukraine to enter the Customs Union. Therefore, for Ukraine, Russia's decision to block Ukrainian exports to the country was hardly unexpected. The Russian government has repeatedly resorted to such steps in relation to exports from the countries of the former Soviet bloc with the aim of political pressure on the leadership of these countries. For example, in 2005 and 2006, export restrictions were introduced for Georgia and Moldova. Only wines, water and juices were banned, and not all products exporters of a particular country. In 2012, Mr. Onishchenko demanded that all services tighten control over the Ukrainian agricultural products entering Russia. And in February of the same year, the cheeses of three Ukrainian producers were withdrawn from circulation as inconsistent with the technical regulations of the Russian Federation (the content of vegetable fats was exceeded). Then the list of risky producers was replenished with six Ukrainian milk producers. However, over time, the prohibitions were lifted.

But if then it was a question of certain goods, now from August 14 Russia has made almost all of Ukraine’s suppliers on the risk list. And this means a complete check of cargo at the Russian customs, following from Ukraine.

The fact that the problems of Ukrainian exporters did not suddenly begin confirms the problems with the export of products of one of the largest Ukrainian holdings, Roshen. In the middle of the summer of 2013, the Russian Rospotrebnadzor banned the importation of Roshen products into the country, as violations of the safety and quality of confectionery products were identified. In particular, it was revealed that the rate of organoleptics and fats was violated in the candies of the Roshen company, and in milk chocolate a substance dangerous to human health was found - benzopyrene. For Roshen, restricting the importation of products into the territory of Russia is a significant blow to the profitability of production. Despite the fact that the restriction is valid only for a few weeks, the Roshen company has already been forced to reduce 400 employees, and monetary losses have already reached tens of millions of dollars. And this is only one company’s damage. But problems with customs control now have more than 40 Ukrainian suppliers of products that have long-term contracts with Russia. The delay at the border automatically led to a breakdown in the delivery of products, damage to goods, as well as loss of confidence of Russian customers to their Ukrainian business partners.

Among the organizations whose goods are considered risky for the Russian consumer, and PJSC "Ukrnafta" are a number of chemical, metallurgical and machine-building giants of Ukraine. For them, just as for Roshen, the Russian market is critically important, since it was he who made it possible to earn working capital and maintain the viability of production.

According to the Ukrainian side, a complete inspection of vehicles, including unloading of goods, on the border with the Russian Federation is unreasonable. The Ukrainian authorities are well aware of the volume of economic losses that the country will suffer from a full stop of exports, even for a short time. Thus, according to forecasts of Ukrainian experts, the volume of Ukrainian exports to the Russian Federation in the second half of the year was planned at $ 8,5 billion. Possible damage from the unilateral introduction by the Russian side of the customs barrier of Ukrainian products could be $ 2,5 billion - that is, 30% of the total value supplies. As a result, the deficit of the balance of payments of Ukraine may increase by this amount, the industrial production index will decrease to 8 points, real GDP will decrease by 1,5%. All these indicators can not but have a negative impact on the general economic situation in Ukraine. The politicians and industrialists of Ukraine have already asked for help from Prime Minister N. Azarov with a request at the government level to resolve the situation and convince the Russian leadership to return to the previous scheme of passing Ukrainian goods through Russian customs.

As long as Russia did not enter the WTO, it had the right to independently resolve such issues, but now when a conflict situation arose between WTO members, the clarification of relations may well be brought to the international level. In this case, Russia will have to prove, within the framework of international agreements, the validity of its claims against Ukrainian manufacturers. According to international law, exporters of goods and services whose products harm the health of people and animals, damage the environment, pose a risk of infection or illness of radioactive contamination, etc., are placed at the risk of exporters. Additionally, it is required to verify that Ukrainian suppliers have the necessary package of documents (documentation) and Russian certificates for products that should undergo such a check. In other cases, all problems are solved by mutual negotiations.

The blocking of Ukrainian exports raises many questions to both sides of the conflict. There is hope that Ukraine will not immediately complain about Russia's actions in the WTO, but will take steps to organize and conduct negotiations to solve the problems that have arisen.

But perhaps the conflict is not as extensive as it is represented by the media. One of the Kiev officials, Oleg Ustenko, is sure that not all cargo is blocked at Russian customs. If Russia introduced a complete blockade of cargo, then it was a question of losses equal to 12% of Ukrainian GDP. Ustenko believes that restrictions are unlikely to be valid for a long time. He recalled a similar case in which France restricted the importation of goods from Asia, allocating separate ports for them on their territory. After the intervention of the WTO, France had to lift such restrictions for Asian exporters.

One thing is certain, even short-term blocking of goods will cause huge losses to the Ukrainian side. Small and medium business turned out to be especially at risk - it can not withstand significant financial losses from product delays at customs.

According to the Ukrainian side, some extremist forces that will stop at nothing to “embroil the two fraternal countries” are guilty of creating the conflict. The Russian side is still silent, officials do not give any comments. But it will not take long to remain silent - if it is not possible to reach an agreement at the level of heads of state, the WTO will give an assessment of Russia's actions.

It should be noted that during the celebration of the 1025 anniversary of the Baptism of Russia in Kiev, Putin once again tried to persuade Yanukovich to decide on the entry of Ukraine into the Customs Union. Putin promised Ukraine, in the case of joining the Customs Union, an increase in GDP from 1,5% to 6,5%. For Moscow, this question was so principled that in the event that agreements were not reached, it was ready to incur losses with the introduction of the blockade on Ukrainian goods: for the Russian side, politics is primary in relation to the economy.

On the other hand, how much is enough for the Ukrainian side to keep the economic situation in the country, taking into account the fact that Ukraine has long been living on foreign loans, that is, it exists in debt. The overlap of the export flow in the Russian Federation can be very undercutting the support of the Ukrainian authorities. The export blockade may accelerate the split of the Ukrainian authorities. And it is possible that the economic elite of Kiev and the government lobby for rapprochement with Russia will require the president to integrate into the Customs Union. In this case, Russia's actions aimed at splitting the Ukrainian power elite may prove successful.


Materials used:
http://vz.ru//economy/2013/8/14/645664.html
http://www.rosbalt.ru/ukraina/2013/08/14/1164397.html
http://www.km.ru/economics/2013/08/13/vladimir-putin/718296-na-polyakh-srazhenii-torgovoi-voiny-rossii-i-ukrainy-idut
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      +18
      21 August 2013 08: 14
      Uv. Citizens of all used republics of the USSR. Show by your personal example how you participate in governing the country, determine foreign policy and economy? Yes, no how. The people are barred from participation and are in shitty slavery, serfs under the master. What the master decides, so be it. Let's keep quiet about shitty elections. There is no money, you are not a deputy, because the basis of crap is money. No money, sit and do not twitch. Shitty elections? Not even funny. What's happening? It does not depend on you or us. The meanness of one and the stupidity of the other created this situation. We just have to yap on the site. Ardently support the policies of one and condemn the policies of the other ... and that's it. Shouting or being silent will not change the situation. We are biomass at this stage, with the given rulers and the given order. And no need to comrade. Krasin to draw "horror films" with pig-elephants with a fat thickness of 35 cm and self-reclining of the legs when the maximum weight is reached, in order to facilitate the work of the slaughters. Delicate Ukrainian bacon trash well behind the ears of Russians. (All my guests, Muscovites, immediately run to "Privoz" for tender bacon, which melts in the mouth and smoked meats. What could be tastier than Ukrainian sausage and with a glass of "samzhen".)
      1. +8
        21 August 2013 08: 38
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        SW Citizens of all used republics of the USSR. Show on a personal example how you participate in governing a country, determine your foreign policy and economy?

        You know, there is some truth in your words. But how much resentment there is in your words ... During the collapse of the USSR in Ukraine, the secession took place under the slogan - stop feeding "hungry" Russia, there is nothing to eat and how long can you tolerate the fact that echelons of our products go to Moscow when they themselves are not enough? The USSR did not become and the "food echelons" stopped walking, but they did not begin to live much better in independent Ukraine, but on the contrary, life became worse, since the sales market disappeared and caravans of passenger cars with trailers, on which citizens of independent Ukraine, now also independently transported products from Ukraine for sale to Russia. I remember how I had to stand for a couple of days at the border checkpoints, because in the summer the flow of "suppliers" was added to the flow of tourists.
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Delicate Ukrainian bacon trash well behind the ears of Russians. (All my guests, Muscovites, immediately run to "Privoz" for tender bacon, which melts in the mouth and smoked meats. What could be tastier than Ukrainian sausage and with a glass of "samzhen".)
        And quality products will always have buyers, but the most important thing is that lard and products from Ukraine, as well as "vodka", will be replaced, in particular, Belarusian and Polish products, since this is not a problem now. But the question is - what will Ukraine do with its surplus products?
        And Muscovites also don't "run" - they walk like that, the rhythm of life is the same in Moscow ...
        1. Akim
          +6
          21 August 2013 09: 00
          Quote: svp67
          And quality products will always have buyers,

          Stopudovo tell you. There are no Rospoterbnadzor certificates on Privoz, but all the same, the quality is good.
          1. +2
            21 August 2013 09: 10
            Where is Entot Privoz? Forget it!
          2. +2
            21 August 2013 09: 41
            Quote: Akim
            There are no Rospoterbnadzor certificates on Privoz, but all the same, the quality is good.
            Yes, during my studies I went there myself, so I believe ... although I try to "get on" to push it ...
          3. 0
            21 August 2013 18: 09
            Quote: Akim
            There are no Rospoterbnadzor certificates on Privoz, but all the same, the quality is good.

            laughing That much local products remained there? The import became just in many respects an import. From a word to bring ...
            1. Akim
              +1
              21 August 2013 18: 17
              Quote: domokl
              That many local products remained there

              Who seeks will always find. A lot of.
              1. +4
                21 August 2013 18: 30
                Quote: Akim
                Who seeks will always find. Lot

                The last time I was in Ukraine was five years ago. If it weren’t for my friends to forget the way there, I visited Privoz, according to the old Soviet memory.
                In Moscow and even here in Siberia, anyone looking for a market will find no less and no worse. On the whole, I’ll say that it’s easy to find a replacement for Ukrainian products. But everyone understands that for Ukraine this is not very good. Besides the Ukrainian leadership and deputies .
                1. Akim
                  +5
                  21 August 2013 18: 40
                  Quote: domokl
                  The last time was in Ukraine five years ago.

                  The last time NPA Privoz was a week ago. From import I bought only bananas and oranges - they grow poorly with us. Potatoes, tomatoes, cucumbers, plums apples, pork grapes, lard, chicken legs, fish, greens - domestic were in the bag.
          4. +8
            21 August 2013 18: 41
            Shaw all believe that Russia = Moscow ??? Besides Moscow, there are hundreds of other cities and villages. And you can go to the market in any other city and see the same excellent bacon, which svidomye has been baking for so long, BUT !!! produced already in the suburban villages of these cities! And believe me, the quality is not worse! And in Ukraine, newcomers "" go to the bazaar to buy lard not because it is "ah, what!", But so that later, treating guests at home, they can make fun of them, they say, they have eaten the lard, they took it ...
        2. smprofi
          -3
          21 August 2013 13: 07
          Quote: svp67
          During the collapse of the USSR in Ukraine, separation took place under the slogan

          do not engage in demagogy, please!
          Captain Vrungel I wrote everything correctly!
          Quote: svp67
          and the "food trains" stopped walking

          laughing
          ORT / RTR / NTV seen enough / heard enough? so I’ll tell you something that is not in the official news and never will be.
          it was the case that he worked in an agro-holding (though it was more than 10 years ago). the main specialization is meat production, i.e. growing bulls. how it was done with the "Komsomol enthusiasm" is a separate question. and not about that. a story about what the bosses found out at some point that there was some tension with meat in the Mother See. and, most importantly, the meat is at a fair price. Anticipating a tremendous profit, they quickly stocked up the train and sent it virtually to nowhere because there was no supply contract or some real buyer. just along with the train they sent an "escort", grated and fidgety, in case of a shortage - he will sell, sure. but it didn't work out to sell. because the "accompanying" strong guys very lucidly explained both about sales markets, and about spheres of influence and other delights of "developed capitalism." and this echelon with meat returned back. while.
          it was only later, some buyer was found who somehow began to take meat from our holding.

          And this is what is most interesting to the conversation about the "quality of products": if our meat went to Europe or to the Arabs (for example Lebanon), then it was supplied exclusively in a live form, that is, the gobies were loaded onto the ship alive. to Russia they accepted only frozen carcasses and no talk of live bulls.

          about what Onishchenko finds "seditious" in the products, I don't even want to talk. the chain dog received the command "fas" and accepted it for execution. the activity of Rospotrebnadzor itself is far from real protection of Russian citizens from poisoning.
          1. +6
            21 August 2013 18: 56
            Quote: smprofi
            do not engage in demagogy, please!
            Where were you and at what age, at that black time, that for you this is DEMAGOGY, not HISTORY?
            Quote: smprofi
            Captain Vrungel wrote everything correctly!
            Vrungel's "truth" (although it sounds ridiculous ..) I'm not going to refute. It's just that each side has its own "truth". You stick to your, our side to your ...
          2. +4
            21 August 2013 19: 38
            Quote: smprofi
            the chain dog received the command "fas" and accepted it for execution

            Russia will not open its markets to anyone.
          3. avt
            +7
            21 August 2013 21: 01
            Quote: smprofi
            about what Onishchenko finds "seditious" in the products, I don't even want to talk. the chain dog received the command "fas" and accepted it for execution. the activity of Rospotrebnadzor itself is far from real protection of Russian citizens from poisoning.

            This is, Poroshenko was simply shown to the place, if you want to raise the loot in Russia - behave according to the appropriate rules, he is not the first, he is not the last. Another thing is interesting, why the author did not mention the recent meeting with the GDP regarding the expansion of the port economy in the Azov - Black Sea region for the expanding needs of the CU? Practically, the GDP "scored" on Ukraine's entry into the CU, since it cuts off transit through it. So this nimble is not a customs - warning into the air, the cartridge for the control in the head of the GDP has already been loaded and cleanly, specifically fraternally warned. laughing Moscow beats off its toes and does not believe in tears, the VVP campaign takes this as a rule in communicating with Yanukovych. So now, like Vysotsky - “You don’t howl, don’t cry, but laugh, tears will not forgive now, no matter how tight the rope is - that's all equally shorten "
            1. +1
              22 August 2013 02: 37
              Quote: avt
              “You don’t howl, don’t cry, but laugh, tears will not forgive now, no matter how tight the rope they are, they will still shorten it”
              good
        3. +4
          21 August 2013 16: 42
          Quote: svp67
          The USSR did not become and "food echelons" stopped walking, but they did not begin to live much better in independent Ukraine,

          We have lost a great country sitting at the TV, and now we regret it.

          Not only in Ukraine were people seduced by the sweet speeches of folk artists, writers and poets.
          And when the "Moors did their job" - most of them quietly receded into the shadows,
          and their place was taken by energetic fighters for independence from the "forever drunk and hungry older Russian brother."
          And what have we come to?
          How many gastrobaytory kalymy in Russia and thus support their families?

          In Moldova, for example, the country's GDP is measured in the amount of Western Union remittances from abroad.
          According to official figures, gastro-byte transfers account for 25-30%.
          Plus, the same amount is transmitted through the conductors and drivers of international buses.

          Sorry, not about Ukraine and not about sweets.
          The article briefly mentioned sanctions on the import of wine: this is about us ...
      2. +4
        21 August 2013 11: 21
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Tender Ukrainian fat loses well behind the ears of Russians.

        That's just the question: is it Ukrainian ... or Polish?
        1. +9
          21 August 2013 11: 42
          Quote: alex13-61
          That's just the question: is it Ukrainian ... or Polish?

          In fact, in Ukraine they chew Brazilian mainly hi
          1. +1
            21 August 2013 13: 22
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In fact, in Ukraine they chew Brazilian mainly

            As in Russia itself. True, Paraguay is already bypassing Brazil in beef.
          2. 0
            21 August 2013 13: 31
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In fact, in Ukraine they chew Brazilian mainly

            Nah ... Polish will be more.
        2. Captain Vrungel
          +6
          21 August 2013 13: 38
          You don’t have to be an om to distinguish Polish fat from home Ukrainian. Only a three-year-old child can confuse and if he is not from Odessa.
          And in general, do not embroider the policies of governments and do not be led by them. Have friends. And then on the table you will have Belarusian cheeses and smoked meats, Ukrainian lard and sausage, Russian fish and caviar. And most importantly, friends at the same table and a celebration of the soul. We all have one Motherland. We were born in the Soviet Union, We grew up in the USSR. And no emblem on the passport will divide us. Our generation is brought up to be proud of their homeland. Today they teach to grovel even before these.
          1. +5
            21 August 2013 18: 22
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            And no emblem on the passport will divide us. Our generation is brought up to be proud of their homeland

            Good words. Correct. Only one no. Our generation has already exceeded the 40-50-year frontier. Our countries are now ruled by those for whom the USSR and Kievan Rus were at about the same time. In ancient times. And for them a movie is being shot about the Stalinist camps, about the famine, about detachments, etc. And we see the fruits of this in any country. Ukrainian guys are fighting with Russians in Chechnya and Georgia, the Baltic people generally consider everyone as enemies, the Georgian will not forget the bitterness of defeat in South Ossetia.
            We should not only have dresies in other countries. We must make sure that our children and grandchildren are friends. We did not think about who lied to anyone and for how much, but we were honestly friends. Not for benefits, not for any concessions, not beyond the territory.
      3. Angolaforever
        +5
        21 August 2013 14: 45
        At the moment, most Ukrainians have a positive attitude towards Russia and the Customs Union. In the elections, Yanukovych and his Party of Regions received popular support because of his supposedly pro-Russian views, which later turned out to be a hoax. But there is indeed a tendency to increase sympathy for Europe. The reason is that Ukraine is now governed by an organized group with unlimited power, which launders budgetary funds, takes business and enriches itself in every way. It is impossible to find a council for it, since the police, the courts and, in general, the entire administrative resource are in their hands. People are tired of this, are in a desperate situation and want justice. What will the Ukrainian see when he turns his eyes towards Russia? Yes, the same thing! Billions of funds stolen from the budget through the Tax Service, the Ministry of Defense and many other departments and “projects”, the impunity of senior officials (which indicates involvement in these schemes, the very best, hand washes his hand). People who try to point out theft usually come under pressure, rot in prisons, or die in the same prisons, or because of "accidents", or because of "robbery." Laws are written and apply only to ordinary mortals. What does a Ukrainian see in Europe? The ministers ride a bicycle to work, after revealing extramarital affairs, high-ranking officials write letters of resignation (this is impossible to imagine with us). Yes, ordinary people are already tired of working for a handful of those in power, the light is not visible at the end of the tunnel, and this very West shows the Ukrainian little hope that the path to justice will move at least a little. I understand that you can bring a lot of arguments in one direction or the other, I just wanted to draw attention to the root of the problem and the essence of its understanding.
        I would like to ask another question to the people responsible for Russian geopolitics at the state level. Where was Russia when the “orange” revolution took place on the American “Xerox box”? Why was it all left to chance? Where are the representatives of Russian interests in Ukrainian politics? I am struck by some user comments in the style of: “Ukrainians turned to Europe,” “they will regret such a choice,” etc. Yes, ordinary people do not decide anything in Ukraine, wake up. The power and decision-making belongs to an organized group that thought - either to cooperate with a similar Russian group, which is stronger and more toothy, and can put them in a vassal position, or to cooperate with a “democratic” Europe and cut loans from it. The answer is obvious.
        1. +3
          21 August 2013 15: 09
          What does a Ukrainian see in Europe? Ministers ride a bicycle to work, after revealing extramarital affairs, high-ranking officials write resignations

          And also: gay pride parades, widespread "tolerance", the dominance of immigrants from Africa and the Middle East who categorically do not want to work, humiliation by the strong (Germany, France) of the weaker (Greece, Portugal ..). I think there is no "paradise" in the West. One has only to face reality and everything will fall into place, like with sausage in the 90s ... fool
        2. +5
          21 August 2013 16: 03
          You are a naive person, already terrible. Dear views of this kind, you should have refused to trade with Russia yourself, but not to wait for Onishchenko. Why haven’t you increased sales with Europe over these years of independence? I’ll answer, because Europe doesn’t need your goods, it itself has what to sell. Europe, how many promises to Ukraine about NATO, and about the European Union? How many unrealistic requirements (condition) do they expose to Ukraine?
          Russia will live without Ukraine, somehow. Ukraine without Russia in any way. Ukraine will be in debt as in a crack.
      4. +1
        21 August 2013 18: 06
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Shouting or being silent will not change the situation

        Captain, captain, smile ... But seriously, please tell me a country where people really do what this cry is famous for in your komenta. Direct democratic governance was the last time in Russia in Novgorod. Yes, and that’s only because that three cripples lived there.
        Large states cannot be ruled by all. They are ruled by those whom the majority has chosen (or sit on the throne). And this is normal.
        And about fat ... In Siberia, fat is also tender. Ukrainians also like laughing
      5. Gari
        +3
        21 August 2013 22: 24
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        SW Citizens of all used republics of the USSR. Show on a personal example how you participate in governing a country, determine your foreign policy and economy? No matter how. The people are suspended from participation and are in shitty slavery, serfs under the master. What the master decides, so be it. We’ll be quiet about democratic elections.

        Bravo respected 100500 pluses to you !!!
    2. +5
      21 August 2013 09: 28
      Quote: Sirs
      Ukraine - Just be friends with us and act in a friendly manner.


      - This is better for Ukrainian politicians to say. The people do not mind, and even want to be friends. YES what there, wants not wants, relatives are scattered throughout the former union.
      1. Turik
        +3
        21 August 2013 09: 40
        Eh ... Delicious were sweets, especially with apple filling! It is a pity that again because of the politicians, they gnawed again in the trash.
    3. +12
      21 August 2013 10: 06
      Quote: Sirs
      Ukraine - Just be friends with us and act in a friendly manner.

      I think most Ukrainians are only FOR. but Ukrainian politicians ...
      1. smprofi
        -16
        21 August 2013 13: 12
        Quote: self-propelled
        but Ukrainian politicians ...

        and the Kremlin is exceptionally white and fluffy? why then everyone in the district periodically falls under the distribution? Yes, at least the same Fatherland?

        1. +1
          21 August 2013 13: 20
          So because everyone in the district needs to decide. Or they are independent and trade with Russia without preferences. Or they creep under the EU, then let them navigate there. Or they come to the arm of Russia, while Father Butka receive oil at reduced prices. True, you have to pay for this by transferring oil refineries to Russian oligarchs. But ... under capitalism, you even have to pay for friendship. And Russia takes only a part, and the Zapadentsy take everything.
        2. +11
          21 August 2013 13: 32
          video a little clumsily mounted. would have found something better ... request
          with regards to Russia-no one says that
          Quote: smprofi
          Kremlin - exclusively white and fluffy
          . tell me, you will kindly help your neighbor (let's say on the landing) constantly. help one, two, ... but then get tired. and the fact that they used to live in the same communal apartment and considered each other brothers was not a reason to continue to help ...
          and the fact that Russia primarily defends its interests is normal. because each of us will first think about his family, and not about a neighbor
          1. smprofi
            -11
            21 August 2013 14: 08
            Quote: self-propelled
            help out of kindness

            understandably. the position is understandable to impossibility. and it’s clear how it formed. and I won’t even breed Turuses and try to prove something because it’s useless.
            Quote: self-propelled
            Russia primarily defends its interests

            change the word "Russia" to "Kremlin" - and no objection! only here for me personally the concepts of "Russia" and "Kremlin" are not identified in any way!

            I will give just one example. with regards to "help" and "their interests".
            introduced Tsar-Ampirator of All Gazprom "economically justified gas prices" for Ukraine (and introduced it because Ryaboy, foolishly, offended the undersized man). Let's just say: real life in Ukraine has become worse. and not only to me alone, but also to many of my relatives / friends.
            At the same time, did this make life better for an ordinary citizen of Russia? no. I'm not against the fact that some veteran or retired grandmother began to live better at my expense, perhaps. so no! That did not happen! Moreover, in addition to communicating with relatives in Russia (there are both military pensioners and state employees), I also asked questions on various forums "Hey! Brothers-Slavs, has an ordinary Russian become sweeter?" but nifiga! nothing of the kind happened!
            and I don’t need to try to talk about the "statehood" of Gazprom and other blah blah!
            1. +4
              21 August 2013 19: 54
              Quote: smprofi
              change the word "Russia" to "Kremlin" - and no objection! only here for me personally the concepts of "Russia" and "Kremlin" are not identified in any way!

              Dear, where do you think the Kremlin is located? On Mars? Contact a psychiatrist, you have broken the causal relationship.
            2. 0
              22 August 2013 14: 57
              Do not push your grandmother. At your expense some pensioner began to live better, oh oh patron. At your expense, oranzheroids live well, led by a pimple. Or do you think that all Ukrainians feed the Russians ?. First of all, all this butch, to show your politicians that it’s time to decide, and not to spit in the well from where they are drinking. Something like this.
        3. MG42
          +9
          21 August 2013 13: 58
          Quote: smprofi

          and the Kremlin is exceptionally white and fluffy? why then everyone in the district periodically falls under the distribution? Yes, at least the same Fatherland?

          Ibid. clumsy video editing here is the original of this video >>
          1. 0
            21 August 2013 17: 03
            smprofi
            Roll in, this colonel is disqualified.
            And then after all, he will get to the Marshal.
          2. +3
            21 August 2013 19: 31
            Quote: smprofi
            and the Kremlin
            What are you doing, Dad, with fraud? And how can you trust after THIS?
          3. Anti
            +2
            21 August 2013 22: 08
            Well done Dmitry Anatolyevich !!!!!! good soldier
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. Stock captain
          -3
          21 August 2013 14: 49
          Vasya did you beat or only?
        6. 0
          21 August 2013 16: 55
          Quote: smprofi
          and the Kremlin is exceptionally white and fluffy?

          Vasya, you are either a provocateur.
          ETOGES montage.
    4. -2
      22 August 2013 15: 09
      Quote: Sirs
      sweets we will buy Ukrainian and fat.


      no, in Ukraine there is fat, there is import, Brazilian, Belarusian, even American, but there is none
      1. MG42
        +2
        23 August 2013 02: 24
        Quote: seller trucks
        no, in Ukraine there is fat, there is import, Brazilian, Belarusian, even American, but there is none

        in retail chains or in the market there is no Ukrainian fat?
        full .. go to any meat row in the market there is Ukrainian bacon fresh wassat
        It is easy to distinguish between fresh and stale bully all the more so for the farmers what for them Brazilian, when they have their own boars, can you imagine the lard floated across the ocean to Ukraine from Brazil or the USA in what form it will be?
  2. +2
    21 August 2013 07: 16
    The fat obtained from Ukraine is used as an additive in the production of sausages, sausages, minced meat, canned soldiers and dog food. When heated to 100-150 ° C in special boilers, all microbes die, but at the same time, the structure of the fat is destroyed.

    Jelly from melted fat, animal skins and viscera is added to meat products along with soy and feathers of birds. So it is possible to pass control on the content of animal protein.

    Production using such technology is so profitable that Russia over the past 5 years has become the largest importer of fat. It is imported from Mexico, Kyrgyzstan, Brazil and even Australia. Profit from the sale of elite sausages covers the cost of logistics.

    Having assessed the opening market, in Ukraine they decided to grab most of it. What I achieved, even if not by the most honest methods. For fattening pigs whose lard is exported to Russia, corn grain and soybeans are used, genetically modified so that the unfortunate animal that fed them dies of obesity in the first year of life. In part, this solves the problem of slaughter, because killing a pig, with 35 cm fat under the skin, is not an easy task. Of course, all this is carefully hidden, because the publication of such is unprofitable for the authorities of the “Independent”.
    And for our sausage "Pinocchio" - well, it is very profitable to twist the sausage.
    1. +15
      21 August 2013 08: 10
      WTO, hike, Ukraine's last hope. Just don't forget about precedents. Russia has blocked the import of chicken from the United States. How they threatened then. So what? The European Union immediately closed its market. And Ukraine cannot sell anything there in such volumes as to Russia. And under no "associations" will not sell. Will only be obliged to accept illiquid assets and refuse.

      Now Russia has briefly demonstrated a possible future for the mind of independent science fiction politicians.
      1. 0
        21 August 2013 08: 42
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        WTO campaign, Ukraine’s last hope

        Time will tell...
        1. +3
          21 August 2013 09: 24
          1. The WTO is an economic stranglehold for suicide countries entering it.
          2. Once the authorities of Ukraine are not friends with their heads and their people, well, they will have to hint until they begin to reach.
      2. 0
        21 August 2013 08: 54
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        WTO campaign, Ukraine’s last hope.

        And hope dies last laughing As far as I remember, the Ukrainian authorities all threatened to sue Gazprom and all that, things are still there. If Russia had a losing position on this issue, then we did something else. The WTO will not help them, so there are TS rules.
      3. FATEMOGAN
        +4
        21 August 2013 12: 41
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        WTO campaign, Ukraine’s last hope


        It is a pity that it is not the brain activity of Ukrainian politicians. Glazev’s interview, which recently and thoroughly chews on the consequences for Ukraine of an agreement with the European Union, is that it will not only be an economic agreement. Ukraine will have to follow European international politics, Ukraine undertakes, under the leadership of the European Union, to participate in civil and military operations to resolve crises, etc., etc. ..... If they sign this agreement, then Ukraine becomes a colony of the European Union, without any rights this is obliged to all ....

        1. +4
          21 August 2013 14: 30
          Quote: FATEMOGAN
          ... Glazev’s interview, which recently and thoroughly chews the consequences for Ukraine from an agreement with the European Union ..

          Glazyev does not say anything about this, but it follows directly - the Ukrainian government is surrendering its country to Brussels as a colony.
          Obviously, the government itself will now play the role of well-paid overseers.
          No, this is not a dream of reason. This is a direct and cynical betrayal of the people of Ukraine.
          "The people are silent" (AS Pushkin).
    2. +1
      21 August 2013 08: 41
      Quote: krasin
      What I achieved, even if not by the most honest methods

      I would like to know if they invented it themselves or adopted the advanced world experience? I think that all over the world they are trying so hard for export, it remains only to recall the story of German chickens, how they were "prepared" for export ..
    3. IGS
      +3
      21 August 2013 08: 58
      As for the use of lard in sausages and other meat products, I want to disappoint you, at the moment, in most cases (including elite varieties of products), a substitute for lard based on vegetable oil is used, it is cheaper, simplifies the technological chain, increases the shelf life and organoleptic properties. The refusal from the mass use of lard in the meat-processing industry in Russia occurred in the nineties, due to interruptions in the supply of just Ukrainian lard, then Ukraine wanted to make us "byaka", the result ... they did for themselves.
      1. +1
        21 August 2013 13: 32
        Quote: IGS
        As for the use of fat in sausage and other meat products, I want to disappoint you, at the moment in most cases (including elite varieties of products), a fat substitute based on vegetable oil is used

        Nonsense. I doubt very much that sausage bacon, even if not of the highest quality, can be replaced with vegetable fats.
        1. IGS
          +1
          21 August 2013 13: 54
          In vain)) The technology was developed, but was not approved, back in the Soviet Union, during a crop failure, when the Doktorskaya sausage fell in price (and not only it), due to a change in the recipe (GOSTs were also changed). They remembered it in the mid-nineties, due to the termination of supplies from Ukraine, many enterprises simply stopped. I had to readjust the technological process and change the recipe, the substitute, indeed, includes about 20% fat. When Ukraine resumed deliveries ... no one began to redo everything back.
          1. +3
            21 August 2013 14: 48
            Quote: IGS
            The technology was developed, but was not approved, back in the Soviet Union, during a crop failure, when the Doktorskaya sausage fell in price (and not only it), due to a change in the recipe (GOSTs were also changed).

            You are confusing different technologies. Yes, cooked sausages with a uniform texture allow the addition of vegetable fats. But they were never "elite varieties".
            1. IGS
              -1
              21 August 2013 15: 32
              For example, in "Braungschweiskaya" - a substitute based on palm oil and lard is used, at least in 2005 it was. And don't forget there is no more GOST. Therefore, believe me, everyone has their own recipe, and there is room for the technologist's imagination. wink
    4. smprofi
      +2
      21 August 2013 13: 32
      Quote: krasin
      For fattening pigs, whose fat is exported to Russiaused corn grain and soybeans, genetically modified in this waythat the unfortunate animal that was eating them dies of obesity in the first year of life.

      where does this fantastic nonsense come from? what kind of journalist did the silkfather give birth to? Simple fodder grain cost our agricultural holding practically nothing (I will not describe the scheme, it’s not interesting), but all sorts of "additives" and "additives" cost a lot of money. the "Komsomol members" -bosses had no desire to spend money on them. it makes no sense if the profit is already normal.
      By the way, GMOs are banned in Ukraine, but not in Russia.

      and, finally, a joke, albeit from Soviet times, but beloved in our holding.

      a man is standing in the bazaar, selling lard. fit buyer:
      - Good fat. What fed the pig?
      - Heh, bread.
      the buyer takes out the OBKhSS crusts and writes out a fine "for plundering socialist property."
      second day, the buyer is suitable:
      - Good fat. What fed the pig?
      a man scratches in a turnip "I already paid a fine for bread ...":
      - Yes, and fed shit ...
      the buyer takes out the crusts of the sanitary and epidemiological station and writes out a fine "for violation of sanitation".
      The third day, the buyer is suitable:
      - Good fat. What fed the pig?
      a man scratches in a turnip "I already paid a fine for bread ..., I paid a fine ...":
      - Yes, he gave the ruble in the morning ... But de wono, scho wono ......
      1. Windbreak
        +2
        21 August 2013 16: 51
        And indeed, soy and corn are genomodified for resistance to herbicides
    5. Ivan Sirko
      +1
      21 August 2013 22: 56
      ...genetically modified in such a way that the unfortunate animal that was eating them dies of obesity in the first year of life ...
      You wouldn’t have pictures, boss, you should write books!
  3. +13
    21 August 2013 07: 19
    "What is behind the next" trade war "between Moscow and Kiev"

    There is a simple and understandable desire of Russia to bring the policy of the brotherly country closer to reality.
    Are you not interested in TS and integration into its market? Great!
    Let’s take a rough look and feel in your pocket how is it without the Russian market?
    1. 0
      21 August 2013 12: 30
      Everything is simple ... Short and clear. +
    2. jet blackbird
      -4
      21 August 2013 21: 35
      You have forgotten the "popular wisdom", which says: "You cannot be lovely!" )) Everyone who forgets this wisdom is jealous and irritated)) You can still ask yourself the question: "And then what?" Are you going to build an "iron curtain"? and send out Ukrainian "spies"?
  4. +5
    21 August 2013 07: 27
    from the Don.
    Russia's attempts to influence Ukraine’s not leaving for Euro.opa will not lead to anything! Kiev, local: Pinocchio;, they will drag the country into the EU. The elite of Ukraine are not affected by the examples of Bulgaria, pribaltos, where the countries are practically ruined! You won’t be forcibly sweet! !! Flag in hand: Square: !!!
    1. +5
      21 August 2013 08: 51
      Yes, the fact of the matter is that we are already trying to take the flag from her hands for her own sake.
      First, I would never believe that the Ukrainian elite does not need the money that it earns from trading with Russia! Consequently, suspicions that the Ukrainian elite are stirring up deliberately so as not to join the TS-MIF Proven! Elite means small and large commerce.
      The second - Putin’s brains are composted exclusively by the President of Ukraine, kicks and defies. Consequently - someone is putting pressure on him and very much will pinpoint for himself and for his surroundings. Therefore, in order to spur commerce, they were limited, at the same time they proved to the President of Ukraine that he would be devoured inside the country if he continued to rush to two camps.
      The result - they showed Ukraine and proved to her that to love Europe is bad when close friends are around. There is a likelihood that Obama was also offended by this and overgrown with a bunch of insults at Russia, and Putin was handsome, two birds with one stone.
    2. -1
      21 August 2013 09: 02
      Quote: borisjdin1957
      ! Kiev, local: Pinocchio;, dragged the country into the EU.

      The question is who will be worse? Idiocy in the power of Ukraine is booming
    3. +2
      21 August 2013 17: 08
      Quote: borisjdin1957
      The elite of Ukraine is not affected by the examples of Bulgaria, pribaltos, where countries are almost ruined!

      The elite of Ukraine thinks that it has already "saved up" everything for a comfortable life in Europe. Each of them has more than one millionaire stolen, like V. Baloga, who is now vehemently advocating to "sort out" Russia with the help of the WTO. Well, yes, here he "came from somewhere 400 million euros in a Swiss bank." He cannot explain the origin of this money and did not indicate it in the declaration. Probably everything would have gone like this, but only now there is a check on corruption schemes, money laundering and so on ... Balog did not take into account the fact that this Swiss bank bought Sberbank of Russia back in 2011 !!!
      As for Mr. Poroshenko, who "in time" grabbed the Karl Marx factory and Roshen, another "European integrator", appeared. Then let him try to sell his candies in Europe! The quality has become much worse than it was under the USSR. Well, also, as the "evil tongues" say, the human factor played a role. a batch of sweets, which was supposed to be distributed in Ukraine, was accidentally exported. Who knew that there would be a check! laughing
  5. Valery Neonov
    -1
    21 August 2013 07: 33
    Quote: BigRiver
    Let’s take a rough look and feel in your pocket how is it without the Russian market?

    hi They take doubts about the successful promotion of Ukrainian goods in the EU.
    With regards to the fact that"the showdown may well be brought to the international level- I'm sure the Kremlin will be able to prove its case! hi
    1. +2
      21 August 2013 08: 01
      Quote: Valery Neon
      hi They take doubts about the successful promotion of Ukrainian goods in the EU.
      With regards to the fact that"the showdown may well be brought to the international level- I'm sure the Kremlin will be able to prove its case! hi

      hi
      fellow That is in vain you are erecting a slander to the EU crying
      They will destroy their own production (auto, metal, mechanical engineering, optics, electrics, etc.) and agriculture, if only Ukraine would live and develop !!! laughing
      About "The Kremlin will be able to prove its case!"
      For some reason, I have no doubt about it. Putin can be blamed for anything, but not for impulsiveness and the absence of a thorough miscalculation of the situation.
      1. -1
        21 August 2013 09: 05
        Quote: BigRiver
        They will ruin their production (auto, metal, mechanical engineering, optics, electrics, etc.) and agriculture, if only Ukraine would live and develop !!

        Yes, it’s full of you, do you really think that the EU is so insidious? They sleep in the EU and see that Ukraine joins a friendly European family, that Ukraine prospers and lives, like in Holland (Storage no longer channels, has not grown together laughing )
        Scha Kars will come and confirm this to you wink
        1. +3
          21 August 2013 11: 08
          The main goal of Ukraine’s involvement in association with the EU is to increase the number of gay communities at the expense of the Slavs fool
        2. +3
          21 August 2013 11: 41
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Scha Kars will come and confirm it to you

          I think it will nevertheless confirm the WTO. And after such demarches, it’s not worth filing claims. Roshen’s products did not find any deviations - therefore, it makes sense to suppress the claim for damages. But you are lazy and flirting with you.
          1. -1
            21 August 2013 11: 51
            yes they find, do not worry. As the saying goes, there would be a pillar, but there is always a way to touch it.
          2. +2
            21 August 2013 11: 53
            Quote: Kars
            I think the WTO will nevertheless confirm it. And after such demarches of shyness, lawsuits should not be filed.

            No Kars will not confirm, and here's why! We have our own trade relations with the EU, including those concluded within the framework of the WTO and the TC, including those based on them. You sign a trade agreement with the EU and immediately get the rules of trade the same as with the EU from Russia. The WTO contains many prohibitive rules, so if you were right, your officials would already yell about the court and the WTO, but there’s nothing to say. Everyone understands everything. Everything within the rules and no more.
            Quote: Kars
            No deviations were found in Roshen's products - therefore, it makes sense to suppress a claim for damages.

            They will not, the trial may last for years, and this is a complete loss of the market. And Russia is not a country with which, due to Roche, the West will roll up a storm.
            If it rolls, then things will not go beyond words, it already was.
            Quote: Kars
            .But you are almond and flirting.

            No, Kars is flirting with you, now you don’t especially flirt with Russia, not that time already!
            1. +1
              21 August 2013 12: 23
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Kars won't confirm

              We'll see.
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              They will not, the trial can last for years, and this is a complete loss of the market

              This is what saves you. And it allows you to develop a sense of impunity and arrogance.
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              No, Kars is flirting with you, now you don’t especially flirt with Russia, at that time, already

              Again, let's see. And you come out ordinary blackmailers and lawless?
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              immediately get the rules of trade are the same as with the EU in Russia.

              So do we want these, or will you say that all goods from the EU are unloaded, outweighed, and so on?
              1. +2
                21 August 2013 12: 48
                Quote: Kars
                We'll see.

                And there’s nothing to watch.
                Quote: Kars

                This is what saves you. And allows you to develop a sense of impunity and arrogance

                Yes, the most impudent country Russia wink
                Quote: Kars
                . And you are ordinary blackmailers and messengers?

                Of course, Russia is only doing what is involved in blackmail, but the EU, they are so-kind, kind winked
                Quote: Kars
                So do we want these, or will you say that all goods from the EU are unloaded, outweighed, and so on?

                Ha, have you ever been to a customs post, there are hundreds of containers at our customs, and until a customs officer looks into everyone, the container will not go anywhere. Plus, the corridor in the container breaks through, unloads, looks like they put it there. Get used to the new rules hi
                1. +1
                  21 August 2013 12: 52
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  And there’s nothing to watch.

                  Let's look at nothing.
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Yes, the most impudent country Russia

                  Well, one of
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Of course, Russia is only doing that it is engaged in blackmail, but the EU, they are so-kind, kind

                  In fact, yes.
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Ha, have you ever been to a customs post, there are hundreds of containers at our customs, and until a customs officer looks into everyone, the container will not go anywhere. Plus, the corridor in the container breaks through, unloads, looks like they put it there. Get used to the new rules

                  So I do not mind, only on a general basis. Before that, you can say that the Ukrainian containers, wagons - passed so without inspection.
                  1. hiocraib
                    -1
                    21 August 2013 13: 08
                    kars
                    here I, as a citizen of Belarus, have questions about the vehicle:
                    1. Machines (average cost before the introduction of vehicle duties of about 6 and up to 000 years) have become more expensive by 10 euros.
                    2. in 2011, the Belarusian ruble was devalued 3 times (the dollar from 3 thousand became 9 thousand).
                    3. Large enterprises - MTZ, MAZ - work on a four-day basis and are expelled on holidays, there is nowhere to put products on the territory. rejection of defense industry products (for example, replacing the MZKT with KamAZ, which has never made this class of equipment)
                    3. the twisting of Russian politicians hands on the sale of state-owned enterprises to Russian PARTICIPANTS - dairy and other wars ...

                    tell me, these are only superficial examples of what benefits and what kind of winnings from the TS for Belarus they say !?
                    1. +1
                      21 August 2013 13: 11
                      Quote: hiocraib
                      kars
                      here I, as a citizen of the Republic of Belarus, have questions about the vehicle

                      Well this is probably not a question for anyone, but here I think there are many who want to answer.
                      1. hiocraib
                        -2
                        21 August 2013 13: 18
                        unfortunately, "many who wish" believe that the Russian Federation should all ...
                        and they are terribly surprised when they are sent.

                        At one time, Belarus was "lucky" with Lukashenko - we have no choice - the EU or the Russian Federation. Ukraine still has it. but the Russian Federation is trying with all its might to make the choice disappear - only the EU will remain ...
                        and Lukashenko is not eternal - the situation in the same Republic of Belarus, after the bankruptcy and plunder of the MTZ, MAZ will ...
                    2. +6
                      21 August 2013 13: 20
                      Quote: hiocraib
                      1. Machines (average cost before the introduction of vehicle duties of about 6 and up to 000 years) have become more expensive by 10 euros.

                      The fact that prices will rise on cars spoke for earlier.
                      Quote: hiocraib
                      2. in 2011, the Belarusian ruble was devalued 3 times (the dollar from 3 thousand became 9 thousand).

                      The dollar collapsed to the vehicle when you swept everything off the shelves.
                      Quote: hiocraib
                      3. Large enterprises - MTZ, MAZ - work on a four-day basis and are expelled on holidays, there is nowhere to put products on the territory. rejection of defense industry products (for example, replacing the MZKT with KamAZ, which has never made this class of equipment)

                      And who refused when?
                      Quote: hiocraib
                      tell me, these are only superficial examples of what benefits and what kind of winnings from the TS for Belarus they say !?

                      As far as I understand, since all the questions are for Kars, you are for "paradise" with the EU. Go to the EU yourself, only without Belarus.
                      1. hiocraib
                        -7
                        21 August 2013 13: 31
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        The fact that prices will rise on cars spoke for earlier.

                        Is it a type of excuse that the same product has become twice as expensive?

                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        The dollar collapsed to the vehicle when you swept everything off the shelves.

                        who swept away what? traded in gray for ye.

                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        And who refused when?

                        http://war.newru.org/news/rossija_menjaet_mzkt_na_kamaz/2012-12-11-121

                        answers to questions why MAZ and MTZ cannot sell products in the Russian Federation I will not hear?

                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        As far as I understand, since all the questions are for Kars, you are for "paradise" with the EU. Go to the EU yourself, only without Belarus.

                        Yes, I somehow do not care what you understand there;)
                        But as a citizen of Belarus, I want to know why, after joining a vehicle in Belarus, prices do not creep down, enterprises do not work, and diapers in neighboring Poland are 3 times cheaper!
                      2. +2
                        21 August 2013 13: 44
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        Yes, I somehow do not care what you understand there;)

                        Hey you, it’s yours not a hamie citizen damn RB. And better go to Poland.
                      3. hiocraib
                        0
                        21 August 2013 13: 50
                        I knew that I wouldn’t hear anything worthwhile about the advantages of the TS for Belarus ...
                      4. Zopuhhh
                        +5
                        21 August 2013 18: 31
                        Answer me a citizen of Ukaraina, sorry RB, why do you think Russia owes you something? I remember in the 90s all of you and the citizens of Ukraine and the Republic of Belarus received OUR oil and gas at dumping prices, something I didn’t hear thanks for that ... But only that we should continue to give OUR raw materials for a penny ...
                        And from the TS RB receives resources at a significant discount, plus access to our market ...
                      5. hiocraib
                        -2
                        21 August 2013 18: 54
                        Quote: Zopuhhh
                        why do you think Russia owes you something?

                        Did I say somewhere that Russia owes me something?

                        Quote: Zopuhhh
                        I remember in the 90s all of you and the citizens of Ukraine and the Republic of Belarus received OUR oil and gas at dumping prices, something I did not hear for that thanks.

                        Thank you.

                        Quote: Zopuhhh
                        And just that we must continue to give our raw materials for a penny.

                        you yourself will decide what kind of business you have with "pricing". and this, what oligarchs do you belong to?

                        Quote: Zopuhhh
                        And from the CU RB receives resources with a significant discount,

                        and gets it back in the form of Belarusian goods "cheaper" by this amount.

                        Quote: Zopuhhh
                        plus access to our market ..

                        which the EU and China have without any vehicles ...
                        about electricity for the Chinese, I better keep silent.
                      6. +3
                        21 August 2013 20: 09
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Hey you, it’s yours not a hamie citizen damn RB. And better go to Poland.

                        No hiocraib is Belarus, an ordinary Jewish provocateur (Jews are usually registered under the Soviet flag).
                    3. +3
                      21 August 2013 13: 27
                      By and large, the question is posed in this form. That your oligarchs must transfer their assets to our oligarchs. Then the heavy will be bought again and there will be no milk wars. And to ordinary people, taking into account the general rules of the game, there will be no difference.
                      The main difference from the EU is that our oligarchs need your plants for work, but for the EU members to destroy. Here the people will suffer specifically with the oligarchs.
                      And by the way, in this respect I completely approve of our Russian oligarchs and officials. Because, excuse me, but who knows your politicians when it comes to their minds to bounce and reorient to the west. But father, with all due respect to him, a weather vane is good if necessary. And how can we resist this? This is your sovereign right. And so, if industry is in the hands of the Russians, then Belarusians do not make sense to look to the West.
                      1. hiocraib
                        -3
                        21 August 2013 13: 42
                        Quote: alicante11
                        your oligarchs must transfer their assets to our oligarchs.

                        correction - our STATE should give the golden hens to your VORIA.

                        Quote: alicante11
                        And to ordinary people, taking into account the general rules of the game, there will be no difference.

                        yes, what went before the state (profit) and went to the budget will go directly to British banks. of course there is no difference;)

                        Quote: alicante11
                        The main difference from the EU is that our oligarchs need your plants for work, but for the EU members to destroy.

                        need to work? or want to crush the ONLY competitor?

                        Quote: alicante11
                        Here the people will suffer specifically with the oligarchs.

                        we do not have oligarchs - in the layer, Lukachenko did not give thieves a green light, everything that belonged to the state remained in the hands of the state.

                        Quote: alicante11
                        Because, excuse me, but who knows your politicians when it comes to their minds to bounce and reorient to the west.

                        Does the Russian Federation have a program for further development? well, except for the "fight against corruption" and renaming the police in policemen? after all, the only Russian program is "what the left heel of the GDP wants" ...

                        Quote: alicante11
                        And how can we resist this?

                        elect sane politicians who think about Russia, and not about the throne. and they don’t store money in English banks.

                        Quote: alicante11
                        And so, if industry is in the hands of the Russians, then Belarusians do not make sense to look to the West.

                        and what, oligarchs have a nationality? profits from the Russian Federation are transferred to England, and losses are distributed among the "scattered". or not?
                      2. 0
                        21 August 2013 16: 20
                        correction - our STATE should give the golden hens to your VORIA.


                        Come on. Like the sun does not have its own oligarchs and thieves? Thieves are thieves everywhere. And what's the difference under which flag?

                        yes, what went before the state (profit) and went to the budget will go directly to British banks. of course there is no difference;)


                        Local taxes are paid to local budgets. And the loss of central taxes is offset by trade preferences.

                        need to work? or want to crush the ONLY competitor?


                        For work. For the sake of crushing, no one would subsidize Belarus.

                        we do not have oligarchs - in the layer, Lukachenko did not give thieves a green light, everything that belonged to the state remained in the hands of the state.


                        That is unlikely. Although, of course, yours cannot be compared with our sharks, you are right. But, nevertheless, there is not much difference here, who is the owner. This is capitalism, unfortunately.

                        Does the Russian Federation have a program for further development? well, except for the "fight against corruption" and renaming the police in policemen? after all, the only Russian program is "what the left heel of the GDP wants" ...


                        The program of the Russian Federation is a "besieged fortress" in which the oligarchs are hiding along with their towers and factories. By the way, But Father is also in this fortress, although he kicks at times. Otherwise, it would have been long since Gaddafi finished.

                        elect sane politicians who think about Russia, and not about the throne. and they don’t store money in English banks.


                        I mean - reprisal on the part of the Slav brothers when they are beckoned from the west. This often happened quite recently.

                        and what, oligarchs have a nationality? profits from the Russian Federation are transferred to England, and losses are distributed among the "scattered". or not?


                        As shown by the Cypriot flogging - yes. Have. Well, the example of Baba, who was stripped by the good British like bandyugans from the gateway, also shows well what awaits "our" oligarchs in the civilized West.

                        The only thing I’m afraid of is that they will be accepted into a friendly oligarchic international. Then we all have a lid. But ... I think that is unlikely. Too some greedy these oligarchs do not like to share.
                      3. hiocraib
                        0
                        21 August 2013 17: 24
                        Quote: alicante11
                        Like the sun does not have its own oligarchs and thieves?

                        oligarchs - no. and bureaucrats, at best, steal for a dacha near Minsk, and not for a mansion in Londongrad "earn".

                        Quote: alicante11
                        And what's the difference under which flag?

                        in RB thieves will sit, and not go to London.


                        Quote: alicante11
                        Local taxes are paid to local budgets.

                        oh yeah okay, we know these "at a loss work" registered in the Cayman Islands.

                        Quote: alicante11
                        And the loss of central taxes is offset by trade preferences.

                        MTZ and MAZ work in a warehouse - what's the point?

                        Quote: alicante11
                        For work. For the sake of crushing, no one would subsidize Belarus.

                        KamAZ or MAZ?

                        Quote: alicante11
                        I mean - reprisal on the part of the Slav brothers when they are beckoned from the west. This often happened quite recently.

                        do not understand.
                      4. IGS
                        +4
                        21 August 2013 17: 33
                        Do not pay attention to this troll with Ukrainian-Belorussian-German affiliation, I have already come across its demagogy, read below, people are well enlightened. He studied the globe and returned back. wassat
                  2. +4
                    21 August 2013 13: 16
                    Quote: Kars
                    Let's look at nothing.

                    Now you’re sitting in Ukraine, you’re looking at nothing, it’s time to get used to it really. I don’t remember that Ukraine would win something in Russia. The weight categories are different.
                    Quote: Kars
                    Well, one of

                    And who else, just don’t talk about the EU, I won’t believe laughing
                    Quote: Kars
                    In fact, yes.

                    Yes, in the EU they are so "in fact" kind, as much as Greece, Bulgaria, the Baltic States, Cyprus, Spain howling wolves from the kindness there wassat Well, bring a fact, for that matter.
                    Quote: Kars

                    So I do not mind, only on a general basis.

                    So they will be, plus additional duties, which will lead to higher prices for Ukrainian goods, but in fact they will simply be equal to prices for goods from the EU. Question, will they take Ukrainian goods? And count the losses, Azarov was already thinking there, sitting with Yanek, scratching his turnips.
                    1. hiocraib
                      -2
                      21 August 2013 13: 24
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Greece, ..., Baltic States, Cyprus, Spain

                      I regret only one thing - that they started to give loans to foolish states that had squandered other people's money in a casino (exchange).
                      they did everything right with Cyprus - banks must pay for their own actions!

                      But you can recall Poland, the Czech Republic, etc. whose entry into the EU and denyuzhki on the development of infrastructure is very well raised.
                      and the opening of their auto industry is also very good, no?
                      1. +4
                        21 August 2013 13: 49
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        they did everything right with Cyprus - banks must pay for their own actions!

                        Yes, with banks, just everything is in order, but with Cyprus itself there are problems laughing
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        But you can recall Poland, the Czech Republic, etc. whose entry into the EU and denyuzhki on the development of infrastructure is very well raised.

                        And what Germany did not remember?
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        and the opening of their auto industry is also very good, no?

                        What prevents Belarus from opening new plants. I tell you again, go to Poland!
                      2. hiocraib
                        -7
                        21 August 2013 13: 59
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Yes, with banks, just everything is in order, but with Cyprus itself there are problems

                        Duc, if the state lives due to fraud of creditors and defamation with taxes - then what's so surprising?
                        but the process has not yet been completed, there will be a global crisis, the banking system has not yet been put in place.

                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        And what Germany did not remember?

                        Germany is the old EU. Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic - new members, different degrees of "news".

                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        What prevents Belarus from opening new plants.

                        RF interferes. no more than that year they wanted to arrange the release of Gele (former Peugeot 407) - oh what Onishchenkov howl began!
                        and the EU under Lukashenko will not invest in Belarus ...


                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        I tell you again, go to Poland!

                        and why are you so fapa in Poland?
            2. +5
              21 August 2013 17: 24
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              then your officials would already yell about the court and the WTO, but there’s nothing to say. Everyone understands everything. Everything is within the rules and no more.

              Yes already squealing! Sense something! The quality of Ukrainian products is very well written by G. Akimova Europe, ice cream and toxins
              http://www.versii.com/news/284486/
              I highly recommend reading and taking into account at least for myself and for my children. G. Akimova is one of the few serious journalist-economists, she always has very accurate, balanced articles.
              Well, today Azarov drew attention to the fact that the Russian customs has strengthened control over the goods of Ukraine since August 14. The Federal Customs Service of Russia explained that the so-called "risk group" includes goods that, in her opinion, did not have a certificate of origin, issued accordingly. At the same time, for a month and a half, Russian customs issued the so-called “risk profiles” for certain groups of goods that caused certain reservations.
              "Unfortunately, Some Ukrainian exporting companies did not pay due attention to the increased requirements of Russian customs officers. And it is from this that the organizers of the business need to draw conclusions. And we need to draw conclusions from the fact that the interaction between the customs authorities of neighboring countries, which have huge commodity circulation, was far from up to par ”
              http://polemika.com.ua/news-125006.html
            3. +1
              21 August 2013 17: 52
              Karsa It's time to dump.
              I bow to the Jewish grandmother.
              hi Kars to tear Russians and Ukrainians, it's like tearing Russians and Siberians.
              the crime.
              Ukrainians, Siberians, Kuban = Russian.
              Death VUKAINSKIM collaborators.
              1. Corneli
                0
                21 August 2013 19: 37
                Quote: ATATA
                The death of VUKAINSKIM collaborators.

                I’m all thinking when you will be banned for deliberately and constantly inciting inter-racial hatred and the constant impudent distortion of the name of my country?
                And by the way, what kind of thread of nationality do you like, or rather do you normally relate to them? And then I think: the United States and other "geyropeytsy" palyube disappear, Jews and Ukrainians, well, everything is clear with you, too, you hardly love Arabs or Negroes, the same answer is clear to your Caucasian neighbors. You are hardly delighted with the Scandinavians and Balts. Maybe they like Central Asians - I don’t believe even. The Chinese and other eastern peoples, yes, I can’t believe it ... The maximum I can assume is a neutral attitude towards the Indians (while they are still buying cheto from Russia, they will stop, neutrality will end) and even South America is questionable ... there is too little information about them. So, do you love Atat at least someone other than yourself and your closest relatives (I strongly doubt that you love even all Russians)?
                1. -2
                  22 August 2013 02: 32
                  Quote: Corneli
                  kindling of inter-racial hatred and constant impudent distortion of the name of my country?

                  This land that the thieves stole is not your country.
                  This is the western edge of my country, which is called Russia.
                  Quote: Corneli
                  And by the way, that atata in general what thread of nationality do you like, or rather treat them normally?

                  What is your nationality?
                  Judging by how you label you Jewish.
                  Jews in life often met decent and honest.
                  On the forums never.
                  Yes and minus for the fact that you ask the questions themselves and answer them yourself.
                  Quote: Corneli
                  So do you love Atat, at least someone other than yourself and your next of kin (I strongly doubt that you love even all Russians)?

                  100% Jewish!
                  1. Corneli
                    +2
                    22 August 2013 13: 53
                    Quote: ATATA
                    What is your nationality?
                    Judging by how you label you Jewish.

                    Quote: ATATA
                    100% Jewish!

                    I am MB and would be happy to be a Jew so hated by you, but I am no less hated Ukrainian))). Just Ukrainian)
                    P.S. You didn't put a label on me? "Calling" a Jew, and even "100%"? You yourself there as a nat. accessory?) And you have not answered the question .... current "labels" and congresses (Atata, such an atata (((
                    P.P.S. On the minus I do not care, from the likes of you, it's more like a reward. I don’t put anyone in the mud as a specialist, di and “minus” is not often ... although it is necessary) wink
          3. 0
            21 August 2013 13: 36
            Quote: Kars
            I think it will confirm the WTO


            Of course it will. Confirm what? Compliance of Ukrainian goods with European quality standards?

            Quote: article
            According to the Ukrainian side, some extremist forces are guilty of creating the conflict, which will stop at nothing to "set the two fraternal countries at odds."

            Here it is. As soon as the profit came under attack, we immediately remembered the forgotten terminology.
        3. +2
          21 August 2013 18: 58
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          They sleep and see in the EU that Ukraine would join a friendly European family, that Ukraine would prosper and live, like in Holland (Storage no longer channels, laughing has not grown together)

          Hi debater. I read, read the comments of Ukrainian colleagues and came to the conclusion that Russia was, is and will be. Let not Ukrainian lard or wheat and what else is there. But it will be good to eat.
          But Ukraine probably already has enough stopping to go where it is torn so much. It wants to go to the EU, to NATU, where there is still a tablecloth. Russian Ukrainians will be like Russian Jews in Israel. It’s like theirs. Stop talking about brotherhood and other nonsense (after our military conflicts with other countries and in Chechnya). Ukrainians are independent, co-opted people, They want to live well, but without Russia constantly deceiving them. let them live.
          1. 0
            22 August 2013 06: 33
            Quote: domokl
            Hi debater.

            hi
            Quote: domokl
            But Ukraine probably already will stop stopping to go where it is torn so much. It wants to go to the EU, to NATU, where there is still a tablecloth

            Sasha, yes, I, as well as for, so that this smut would not be there, BUT ....
            The worse it will be with the EU, the more Russia will again be to blame.
            Yes, and NATA does not suit me, so request
  6. Akim
    -18
    21 August 2013 07: 39
    Yesterday I watched CCTV. report from Blagoveshchensk, where now unfortunately a flood. So, there all the products are Chinese, or grown by Chinese farmers on Russian soil. Russia - and how will you feed your people yourself if you argue with everyone?
    1. +14
      21 August 2013 08: 33
      Quote: Akim
      Yesterday I watched CCTV. report from Blagoveshchensk, where now unfortunately a flood. So, there all products are chinese, or grown by Chinese farmers on Russian soil ...

      The knowledge gained from the TV is cool laughing
      Tell ishsho, che-thread, to me the Far East.
      1. Akim
        +2
        21 August 2013 09: 05
        Quote: BigRiver
        The knowledge gained from the TV is cool

        And how else can I get so far to you? There are only Russian and Chinese sources.
        1. +11
          21 August 2013 10: 25
          Ask eyewitnesses. There are still enough Russians for us in the Far East, and even the Internet can be found at times if the bears and tigers from Taiga do not cut the wires :).
      2. +3
        21 August 2013 09: 10
        Quote: BigRiver
        Tell ishsho, che-thread, to me the Far East.

        By the way, he watched the Chinese channel laughing
        1. Akim
          +1
          21 August 2013 09: 27
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          By the way, he watched the Chinese channel

          No, you just have to watch the Russians and pray for power. I can see CNN. But there is generally one chernukha. All channels show interviews with those with whom it is beneficial.
          1. +2
            21 August 2013 09: 42
            Quote: Akim
            No, you just have to watch the Russians and pray for power.

            I don’t watch them at all, there is Internet
            1. Akim
              0
              21 August 2013 09: 46
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              have internet

              And do you get information from all the neighbors? I do not believe. For comments from Ukraine would then seem harmless pranks to you.
              1. +3
                21 August 2013 10: 02
                Quote: Akim
                For comments from Ukraine would then seem harmless pranks to you.

                Yes, I read komenty Ukrainians, everything is there, as always, Russia is to blame for everything.
          2. +2
            21 August 2013 10: 00
            Quote: Akim
            No, you just have to watch the Russians and pray for power. I can see CNN. But there is generally one chernukha. All channels show interviews with those with whom it is beneficial.


            As a child, together with my father, they listened to "Western Voices" in the evenings (it was interesting what they say about us "over the hill"), and there was more than enough "chernukha". Moreover, the truth was skillfully mixed with outright lies about the USSR, the Soviet system.
            Therefore, "turn on the word filter" (as on the VO laughing ) and separate the truth from fiction.
            In the overwhelming number of cases, the information analyzed in its own "box" is the only correct one, while it is natural that the "non-interpretation" works correctly, in the right direction.
            1. Akim
              +4
              21 August 2013 10: 05
              Quote: Corsair
              In the overwhelming number of cases, the information analyzed in its own "box" is the only correct one, while it is natural that the "non-interpretation" works correctly, in the right direction.

              That's it. Information must be obtained from several diametrical sources. I do not think that all of you are massively reading Navalny. He is still the GOES, but his opinion should also be known.
              1. +1
                21 August 2013 10: 13
                Quote: Akim
                I do not think that all of you are massively reading Navalny. He is still the GOES, but his opinion should also be known.

                The information about him is quite diverse enough, but to read his works, thanks ...
                I had enough of Marx and Lenin.
                1. Akim
                  -6
                  21 August 2013 10: 22
                  Quote: ATATA
                  but read his writings, thanks ...
                  I had enough of Marx and Lenin.

                  You know, how Putin cited an old phrase as an example: I have not read Pasternak, but I condemn him. So it is here. I think it is wrong to base your opinion on the "lured" media.
                  1. +2
                    21 August 2013 10: 42
                    Quote: Akim
                    I think it is wrong to base your opinion on the "lured" media.

                    So here you are and give the opinion of lured Ukrainian media.
                    1. Akim
                      -2
                      21 August 2013 10: 45
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      So here you are and give the opinion of lured Ukrainian media.

                      Yeah, also European and American and South America. All are wrong, only "poor" Russia is right. And then different sources inside it speak differently.
                      1. +10
                        21 August 2013 11: 02
                        It’s good to go nuts, remain unconvinced.
                        I'm only afraid that, God forbid, if you "make friends" with the EU, then the worse your country will be, the more Russia will be to blame.
                        Well, damn it guys - you are adults already, you have "independence", by the way General Nikolai Popel at the beginning of the war described the leaflets that the Germans scattered and !, you won't believe !, it was the same as you have now! Katsap, mockals, independence, independence and so on. And the point is not at all that the Ukrainians hate us, but that you NOW succumbed to what the Germans and BENDER'S propagandized during the war, in order to tear you away, because this makes our nation easier to WORK !!!! You have been misled, during 23 years of independence you have been so brainwashed that the Germans would have been unattainable! Russia does not want to lose Ukraine in every sense!
                        The first is the same people.
                        Second, Ukraine without brains is a threat to Russia in any case, which is unacceptable, since we are neighbors and because of your ideas, you can expose us to threats.
                        Third, they are trying to influence Russia through Ukraine, and your president is contributing to this.
                        Fourth, no matter how you roam, you cannot survive without Russia, and the EU will accelerate this process.
                        Fifth - It is easier to overwhelm a torn nation, though you’re nightmaring us that we are no longer brothers, but you simply don’t understand that you are killing yourself! No matter how you live now, it will be even worse if you do not come to your senses.

                        FEW???
                      2. +3
                        21 August 2013 11: 14
                        Quote: Akim
                        All are wrong, only "poor" Russia is right

                        Well, then an example, whom has Russia thrown in recent years and whom has it deceived and in what?
                      3. Akim
                        0
                        21 August 2013 11: 30
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        an example of whom Russia has thrown in recent years and whom it has deceived and in what


                        We will not talk about our neighbor from the CIS. The very first example of "Shell" in the Far East. Correct or h6t is another question. I think correctly. But from a legal point of view, I threw it.
                      4. +3
                        21 August 2013 11: 59
                        Quote: Akim
                        ... The very first example of "Shell" in the Far East. Correct or h6t is another question. I think right

                        Is that so? Why give Shell as an example in this case, if you think it is right?
                        With regards to the legal, how many times did the shell in that project throw Russia for final financing?
                        And most importantly, as I understand it, besides the shell far-fetched you have no other options. Yes, and the format was wrong.
                        And by the way, why not talk about the CIS, since the conversation is about Ukraine?
                      5. Akim
                        0
                        21 August 2013 12: 19
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        And by the way, why not talk about the CIS, since the conversation is about Ukraine?

                        The simplest example, so offhand is An-70.
                        PO.S. I’m not only talking to you. There is always no time to remember. And behind my back, there is no analytical department that monitors everything.
                      6. +1
                        21 August 2013 12: 50
                        Quote: Akim
                        The simplest example, so offhand is An-70.

                        I thought you write it or not. wassat Well, in short, what kind of child in general.
                        Quote: Akim
                        There is always no time to remember

                        There is nothing to remember, except for such garbage like that and 70
                      7. Akim
                        -1
                        21 August 2013 13: 22
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        I thought you write it or not.

                        An-70 was well-known to everyone because of this, I immediately remembered. And so: refusal of transit through Odessa-Brody, refusal to pump process gas into underground gas storages, refusal to repair ships, refusal of engines from aircraft manufacturers, refusal to work with Energoatom, refusal of new microdistricts in Sevastopol ...
                      8. +4
                        21 August 2013 13: 53
                        Quote: Akim
                        And so: refusal of transit through Odessa-Brody

                        Here, too, Russia threw, had no right to refuse?
                        Quote: Akim
                        refusal to pump process gas into underground gas storages,

                        And this is when Ukraine began to steal it and dumped everything on Russia. So there were already analyzes and everyone found guilty of stealing Ukraine-Nehru.
                        Quote: Akim
                        refusal to repair ships, refusal of engines by aircraft manufacturers, refusal to work with Energoatom, refusal of new microdistricts in Sevastopol ...

                        So is it scam or Russia does not have the right to refuse something. I ask who and when they threw? And then all the same can be transferred to Ukraine. In fact, and without attracting
                      9. Akim
                        -5
                        21 August 2013 13: 57
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        And then all the same can be transferred to Ukraine. In fact, and without attracting

                        I ask to the studio ... Failure - this is scam. You are already starting to count on the stalls, and he otmazyvatsya from you
                      10. 0
                        21 August 2013 14: 10
                        Quote: Akim
                        Failure - this is scam.

                        Failure is a refusal, Ukraine, too, refuses a lot of people and what, but it’s not scam. Scam is when you are thrown at grandmothers, so the shell committed scam in Russia, but to hell with it.
                        But about the kidalov, come on in fact. What exactly is good and what will be the advantages of ZTS with the EU for Ukraine?
                      11. Akim
                        -3
                        21 August 2013 14: 23
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        What will be the advantages of ZTS with the EU for Ukraine?

                        This is better to read. But the quotas for metal rolling and agricultural products are being removed. Naturally, engineering will not flood there. Also, they will have markets in Russia and Asia.
                      12. +1
                        21 August 2013 14: 36
                        Quote: Akim
                        . But the quotas for metal rolling and agricultural products are being removed.

                        Maybe subsidies?
                        Quote: Akim
                        Also, they will have markets in Russia and Asia.

                        I do not ask about the situation of the markets, how much money does it gain and for which industries. Do they even exist?
                      13. Akim
                        +1
                        21 August 2013 14: 43
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Do they even exist?

                        There are benefits from any economic cooperation. Just do not counterbalance. Now the CU is a closed organization like the EU. But no one bothers to cooperate with him in the free trade zone. This is theoretically.
                      14. 0
                        22 August 2013 06: 31
                        Quote: Akim
                        This is theoretically.

                        If your goods are needed in Russia, then in the EU they didn’t fall to anyone in the FIG — in fact! What profit from ZTS will be?
                      15. Akim
                        +1
                        22 August 2013 07: 55
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        If your goods are needed in Russia, then in the EU they are in nobody's fig

                        It was written here that exports from Ukraine to Russia, and indeed to the CIS, account for less than 50%. Of course, if you argue in this spirit: Like, take a nap and we won’t buy anything from Ukraine - yes. Only Ukraine is not Georgia, and Russia will not break off economic ties with it. This is not a loss for herself. Do not listen to politicians and balabal-urnalists. They are specially paid money for this.
                      16. +3
                        21 August 2013 16: 34
                        Accession to the EU by many in Ukraine seems to be akin to joining the Kingdom of God, although no one is going to offer Ukraine any more “associations”. Let's look at the fate of countries that joined the EU relatively recently. Everywhere, the old EU members imposed restrictions on production in agriculture, industry, energy, etc., for beginners. In return, they offered cheap loans for consumption (through large Western banks), investments in some sectors that the EU leadership deemed worthy for these countries (for example, tourism), injections into infrastructure (which were usually mastered by Western European companies) and unlimited labor migration, so that the remaining Without work, the Poles, Romanians and Bulgarians could find themselves plumbers and laborers in developed countries and transfer part of their earnings to their homeland.

                        GREECE.
                        The most severe blow was inflicted on cotton growing. In the late 1990s, Greece produced more than 1,3 million tons of cotton per year, while now it is allowed to collect half as much - 782 thousand tons.
                        Before entering the EU, Greece had a positive balance of foreign trade in agricultural products, but after receiving the coveted status, the Greeks received quotas imposed so that there was no overproduction of goods - to produce so much meat and not more, so much milk, wine, orange, olive oil, otherwise - a fine. As a result, the country's wine industry was seriously affected.
                        Another industry in Greece that found itself in the victims is shipbuilding. The EU turned out to be more profitable to build new ships not in Greece, but in Germany (who would doubt it!). Many shipyards in Greece have closed, and since joining the EU, Greek shipowners themselves ordered 770 ships abroad!
                        LATVIA.
                        Upon joining the EU, Latvia lost all of its sugar factories.
                        The Lebanese Glass factory, famous in the USSR for art glass, was closed. The no less famous house-building factory, which collected Finnish houses for five rooms, was also closed. The peat factory survived, where 20 of the thousands of jobs were saved, and they now work for German investors, and the environmentally friendly product is sent as bedding to German farms. A paper mill is dismantled in Riga (does not fall within the EU economic standards) and one of the largest engineering enterprises in the Latvian SSR, RigaSelMash ..
                        Latvia's external debt in 1991 was zero, and now it is 7 billion euros (as of March). Latvia's GDP is $ 42,947 billion. In 2009 Latvia's GDP fell by 17,8%
                        LITHUANIA.
                        Ordinary residents almost ceased to keep cows, and the livestock was reduced four times.
                        Lithuania lost the Ignalina Nuclear Power Plant. In 1991, Lithuania did not owe a single cent to a single state, and in 2102, Lithuania's total debt approached 14,5 billion euros, which is 40% of GDP.
                        ESTONIA.
                        The number of cattle since Soviet times decreased by five times. Now in Estonia there is a reorientation of agriculture to the production of biofuels.
                        The machine-building plant (equipment for the oil industry) and its plant do not work Volta in Tallinn, which during the Soviet era produced engines and other equipment for the energy sector.
                        At the request of the EU, electricity generation was reduced several times from 19 billion kilowatt-hours to 7 billion kilowatt-hours - Europe did not want to buy surpluses, but Russia basically did not.
                        Estonia's external debt is 16,56 billion euros (2010). Estonian GDP: $ 19.305 billion
                        In all Baltic countries, the fishing industry has also suffered - the EU sets catch quotas and the so-called solidarity norms for the use of European water resources, which leads to the closure of fish factories and a decrease in the fishing fleet.
                      17. +2
                        21 August 2013 16: 36
                        POLAND.
                        The main thing that the Polish economy lost after entering the EU on May 1, 2004 was the coal industry. It was closed 90% of coal enterprises, which employed more than 300 thousand people. 75% of Polish miners lost their jobs.
                        The second, the loss, is the famous Gdansk shipyard, which launched the largest number of ships and fishing vessels in the world in 1960-1970, and is now divided into two private enterprises, which are still idle ..
                        Dozens of smaller shipyards closed, and their workers left for Western Europe.
                        Poland's external debt at the time of entry into the EU amounted to $ 99 billion, at the beginning of 2011 - $ 245,5 billion.
                        HUNGARY
                        One of the symbols of Hungary was Ikarus. In its best times, the company produced up to 14 thousand buses a year. (It is curious that the Lviv Automobile Plant under the USSR also produced the same number - 15.000 buses. Now there are problems with the owner, a Russian. The local Bandera authorities simply threw him).
                        In 2004, the year Hungary joined the EU, mass production of buses was discontinued here. The Hungarians really hoped that after joining the EU they would fill all of Europe with one of their main agricultural products - honey, but it didn’t work out — the purchase prices for honey in Hungary fell from 4,92 to 2,73 euros per 1 kg, as a result beekeepers cannot offset their production costs. Hungary's public debt is about 80% of GDP in 2009.

                        In the EU there is support for farmers who receive enormous subsidies from the EU budget, but only grow what, according to the calculations of the European Commission, the EU needs. Polish and Hungarian farmers also receive EU subsidies, but not on the same scale as Germans and French.

                        What happened:
                        In Poland, the geological and mining conditions of coal seams are simply a fairy tale compared to Donbass, but Polish mines are closed. - Ukraine will not sell coal in the EU.
                        In the EU there is a rocket and space agency, there is Airbus, which is fiercely fighting Boeing for a place in the sun. - Ukraine will not sell technologically complex products - missiles, aircraft - to the EU.
                        Greece did not help compete with winemakers in France, even milder, compared with the Ukrainian and even Crimean Mediterranean climate. That is .. Ukraine will not supply wine to the EU. For the same reason, Ukrainian, grown in risky farming, in frost and drought, agricultural products will be uncompetitive, more expensive than European ones. Moreover, the old EU well subsidize their farmers, and in Ukraine they are only ruined.
                        Draw your own conclusions. Although Ukraine should take examples not even from the countries mentioned, but from other “EU associates”, from Egypt, for example. This is closer to her.
                      18. Akim
                        +3
                        21 August 2013 16: 49
                        Quote: Nikolai S.
                        Nicholas C.

                        I’m already tired of repeating you the Association and the FTZ does not mean joining the EU. And you as an ambulance: -The doctor said to the morgue, then to the morgue.
                        As for Poland. I'm a little bit sweet on theirs. So here. Neither the economy is in the top twenty.
                      19. IGS
                        -1
                        21 August 2013 17: 00
                        Right. Poland is called "European China". But even there it is far from without problems:
                        “1 million people regularly send their families money earned abroad. According to the National Bank of Poland, in recent years it was 15-16 million zlotys - 5,3 million dollars a year, which is 15-20% less than before the beginning of the global crisis. In the second quarter of 2012, according to this bank, money was sent mainly from the UK, Ireland and Germany. Approximately the same amount of money is sent by migrants to the country through unofficial channels. Recently, consumption has been boosted by the depreciation of the zloty. they now receive more zlotys when exchanging foreign currency. In addition, consumer loans continue to play an important role in the life of Polish families. Over the past year, Poles' debt to banks has grown by half and amounted to more than 32 billion zlotys - about 10 billion dollars. "
                        Draw your own conclusions.
                      20. Akim
                        +1
                        21 August 2013 17: 07
                        Quote: IGS
                        Draw your own conclusions.

                        We have this without the EU. And there is no guarantee that with the vehicle it will not be the same. Personally, I do not want to buy products at Russian prices, but with our salaries.
                      21. IGS
                        +3
                        21 August 2013 17: 19
                        There are truly no guarantees. In any case, the only thing I can wish for, in any situation, is to withstand all this to ordinary Ukrainians. From the heart.
                      22. IGS
                        0
                        21 August 2013 17: 38
                        Interesting, and who zamusnovat? Who did not like the statistics of the Bank of Poland itself? But there seems to be no personal conclusions ..
                      23. +2
                        21 August 2013 17: 57
                        Quote: IGS
                        Interesting, and who zamusnovat? Who did not like the statistics of the Bank of Poland itself?

                        Yes, one and the same to all the minuses were made by someone under Russian flags, he doesn't write comments, only minuses. "Brother" is Ukrainian.
                      24. Akim
                        -1
                        21 August 2013 18: 01
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Yes, one and the same set all the minuses, does not write comments, only minuses. "Brother" Ukrainian

                        Chi no Chi. I collected a comment there of 25 minuses, but I answered only three.
                      25. 0
                        22 August 2013 06: 29
                        Quote: Akim
                        I collected a comment there of 25 minuses, but I answered only three.

                        Kim, I didn’t write about you, there is another minus, but does not write comments
                      26. Akim
                        +2
                        22 August 2013 08: 01
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        there is another minus, but does not write comments

                        There are different circumstances. A person, maybe he just doesn’t want to enter into an argument, or maybe he didn’t like it, but he doesn’t know what to answer with reason.
                      27. +2
                        21 August 2013 17: 18
                        Whatever you might say, Poland is not included in the G20
                        ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C1%EE%EB%FC%F8%E0%FF_%E4%E2%E0%E4%F6%E0%F2%EA%E0
                        www.g20.org/docs/about/g20_en.html
                        It’s not difficult to write the truth. You just have to get used to it.
                      28. Akim
                        -1
                        21 August 2013 17: 51
                        Quote: Nikolai S.
                        It’s not difficult to write the truth. You just have to get used to it.

                        And here is another "truth" from the same Wikipedia .. And who can you believe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
                        Do not be offended, but I got you a minus. I do it rarely. Just the second time on the site.
                      29. IGS
                        +1
                        21 August 2013 17: 59
                        Please read carefully. ONE MILLION people of the able-bodied population (according to Poland itself, which means more) cannot find their application in their homeland. Can I find out what is contrary to your line? I specifically cited what was written by the Poles themselves, so it’s hard to blame me for propaganda.
                      30. 0
                        21 August 2013 18: 08
                        Quote: Akim
                        And here is another "truth" from the same Wikipedia.

                        Actually, I have a link to the site of the G20 itself (under the Russian presidency). The link to Wikipedia is given as a test for lice for those unable to read otherwise. In your link at face value of GDP Poland is in 24th place. But you don’t read your links either. So write anyhow.
                      31. IGS
                        0
                        21 August 2013 18: 11
                        Tell me, do I have at least something about the G20? Or her place?
                      32. Akim
                        -3
                        21 August 2013 18: 27
                        Quote: Nikolai S.
                        So write anyhow.

                        The Big Twenty is not an indicator. Who will include Iran. And the EU took what a strange place, in real countries.
                        I gave you the English version of the list of countries by GDP where Poland is the twentieth.
                      33. +1
                        21 August 2013 18: 57
                        Quote: Akim
                        The Big Twenty is not an indicator. Who will include Iran. And the EU took what a strange place, in real countries.
                        I gave you the English version of the list of countries by GDP where Poland is the twentieth.

                        Do not cheat. By the link you provided at NOMINAL OF GDP 20. Switzerland 21. just Iran 22. Sweden 23. Norway and only 24. Poland Moreover, Switzerland’s GDP is about a third more than Polish. You are again trying to cheat by listing the GDP by an indirectly calculated indicator - purchasing power parity. (In it, India is not 10th, but 3rd)
                      34. +2
                        21 August 2013 18: 48
                        Quote: Akim
                        The simplest example, so offhand is An-70.

                        lol So AN-70 was fully paid by Russia in part. According to the contract. But Ukraine did not fulfill its obligations. That’s why and only because we had to upgrade the obviously losing IL to ANa standards. And we refused enough money already invested in Antonov .
                      35. +6
                        21 August 2013 12: 17
                        And how is Shell throwing Ukraine refusing to buy pipes and pump 50% of gas produced in the Ukrainian gas transportation system?
                      36. +3
                        21 August 2013 13: 02
                        Quote: mhpv
                        And how Shell is throwing Ukraine ...


                        But should they leave something to Ukraine?
                      37. +1
                        21 August 2013 11: 54
                        Yeah, also European and American and South America. All are wrong, only "poor" Russia is right. And then different sources inside it speak differently.


                        Do you remember how these "truth-tellers" described and describe the events in Libya and Syria. And it will immediately become clear whether they can be trusted. Russia is also not always right, since the media are everywhere and always SMD (mass media disinformation). But in this case it is better to listen to Russian ones.
                        By the way, for the first time I hear about the media in South America saying something about Russian agricultural.
                      38. Akim
                        +6
                        21 August 2013 12: 01
                        Quote: alicante11
                        Do you remember how these "truth-tellers" described and describe the events in Libya and Syria. And it will immediately become clear whether they can be trusted.

                        I'm still trying to prove to the Frenchman that it was aggression. But he does. that the truth is on their side. And it was not only the Russian press that prompted me to draw conclusions. In order not to think that he was biased.
                      39. 0
                        21 August 2013 13: 40
                        Yes, it’s just the Russian press, as far as I know, since I don’t watch zombies and do not read newspapers, I sang in the same tune with Zapadensky at the request of DAM. Which was very embarrassing. But it’s not for nothing that I called SMD = SMD. So you need to look for Old on the Web. And, as you rightly said, from different angles. This is me to the fact that you took Old about what is happening in the Far East from the Western and Ukrainian press. And it would be better if they asked us living here.
              2. +1
                21 August 2013 14: 39
                Quote: Akim
                ... Information must be obtained from several diametrical sources. ..

                Don't be diametrical. Don't get into this "mess" :(
                If you feel the need for regular and reliable information, then over time you will select the pool of your QUALITY sources yourself.
            2. 0
              21 August 2013 12: 58
              Quote: Corsair
              that "non-interpretation" works correctly, in the right direction.


              for more than twenty years, "no interpretation" has been taught by all available means that Russia is to blame for everything ... one cannot count on complete adequacy
      3. +3
        21 August 2013 09: 39
        In 2004, there was an incident that can already be considered an anecdote. When my wife and I were buying vegetables, a man in front of us asked the saleswoman, pointing out two types of cucumbers. Where, they say, cucumbers. She answered without hesitation. They say these are Chinese, and these are ours. Lazo grown by the Chinese. Then there was a mute scene followed by laughter. True, in a way, through tears. My grandmother used to have a field behind a poultry farm in the area of ​​the Southern industrial hub. So, not long before I got rid of this "corvee" in the family gardens, across the road from XNUMX townspeople, the Chinese plowed fields, set up greenhouses and began to develop deposits of bird "guano" from the poultry farm for fertilization. So these are not television lies, but personal observations, unfortunately.
        However, it would not be so bad if it were not for our other lesser brothers - Caucasians. Who seized the entire trade in agricultural products. And do not let farmers and private traders into the city. About 4 years ago, in the EAO in the Volochaevka district, I bought watermelons for 50 kopecks in the fields. kilogram. While in the city they cost 8 rubles per kilogram with our Caucasian friends. At the same time, when he asked why watermelons were not being brought to the city, they say that in an attempt to simply a car was burned along with the products. Therefore, they sell these watermelons to the same Caucasians for the same 50 cents directly in the fields. So the question is in the protection of the manufacturer. The Chinese, if anything, put the knife on the knives. And we can strangle our calmly. So it turns out that we eat Chinese vegetables instead of ours, crushed by fraternal traders.
      4. Corneli
        +1
        21 August 2013 19: 47
        Quote: BigRiver
        The knowledge gained from the TV is cool laughing
        Tell isho, che-thread, me Far East

        As a rule, "knowledge from TV" does not prevent Russian residents from judging what is happening in Ukraine) And to prove to the majority that I live here and what you are talking about here is not weak rhetorically) Best regards hi )
    2. +3
      21 August 2013 08: 43
      Quote: Akim
      . Russia - and how will you feed your people yourself if you argue with everyone?
      We’ll decide for ourselves ...
    3. +3
      21 August 2013 09: 09
      Quote: Akim
      Russia - and how will you feed your people yourself if you argue with everyone?

      Oops! And what, again Ukraine feeds us, what? Interesting ... Provide yourself first. At least fat for a start.
      1. Akim
        0
        21 August 2013 09: 31
        Quote: retired
        Oops! And what, again Ukraine feeds us, what?

        I understood. Many Russians have a flat opinion. We saw a flag on the ip. and let's part. I said:
        Quote: Akim
        if you argue with everyone?
        1. +6
          21 August 2013 10: 16
          Quote: Akim

          if you argue with everyone?

          You live in an inverted world.
          Ukraine is more interested in friendship with Russia, and not vice versa.
          1. Akim
            +2
            21 August 2013 10: 25
            Quote: ATATA
            Ukraine is more interested in friendship with Russia, and not vice versa.

            Both countries want this. Only equal.
            1. +5
              21 August 2013 10: 35
              Quote: Akim
              Both countries want this. Only equal.

              The left hand cannot be equal with the whole body.
              A body without a hand is crippled, a hand without a body is simply an amputated limb.
              1. Akim
                -1
                21 August 2013 10: 46
                Quote: ATATA
                The left hand cannot be equal with the whole body.

                This is how you explained the unwillingness of the Ukrainian government. I don't want to be called "little brother".
                1. Misantrop
                  +8
                  21 August 2013 10: 53
                  Quote: Akim
                  I don't want to be called "little brother".
                  Do you like a name like "2nd grade European"?
                  1. Akim
                    +2
                    21 August 2013 11: 19
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    "European of the 2nd grade" like more?

                    Imagine. I read English Spanish (a little French) editions, well, Slavic. There is no such belleberd. they call it differently, but not in the same vein.
                    1. 0
                      21 August 2013 12: 33
                      Yeah, they call it Russian :).
                2. +1
                  21 August 2013 12: 32
                  Younger brothers in now. In the USSR, you were just brothers.
                  1. Akim
                    +2
                    21 August 2013 12: 36
                    Quote: alicante11
                    In the USSR, you were just brothers.

                    If there was a USSR, no doubt. Or in Russia there would be a socialist system - I with two hands only FOR. But your bourgeoisie are in conflict with ours, and the people are suffering.
                    1. +2
                      21 August 2013 12: 59
                      There are no "your" bourgeois and "ours" between the brothers. Either brothers or not brothers. Ukraine chooses the latter. Well, don't complain.
                      1. hiocraib
                        -4
                        21 August 2013 13: 12
                        Quote: alicante11
                        There are no "your" bourgeois and "ours" between the brothers. Either brothers or not brothers.

                        whether the brothers are either bourgeois. because there were only bourgeois - screaming about brothers - then the result is obvious, isn't it?

                        ps although I’m happy to hear about the exploits of the Russian brothers. and then tired of the exploits of the oligarch ...
                      2. +4
                        21 August 2013 13: 31
                        Well, here I am about the same. That there were only bourgeois. But now I have a question, what is the difference to the Ukrainians, what kind of oligarchs over them are Russian bottling or independent? It is necessary to work that for those that on others. But the EU will no longer have to work. Industry, they are in the bud rot in the Baltic states.
                      3. Akim
                        +4
                        21 August 2013 13: 44
                        Quote: alicante11
                        But now I have a question, what is the difference to the Ukrainians, what kind of oligarchs of Russian bottling or independent are above them?

                        Economically - no. Politically, this is a one-goal game.
                      4. 0
                        21 August 2013 16: 25
                        So the gates are always alone. If Ukraine is weak, then it must join the alliance or become a satellite. There is no other way. And I'm not talking about politics, but about the people. What difference does it make to the people, what flag will the oligarch have?
                      5. Akim
                        +3
                        21 August 2013 16: 29
                        Quote: alicante11
                        If Ukraine is weak, then it must join the alliance or become a satellite.

                        This reminds me of a 2004 advertisement with three varieties of Ukrainians. It didn’t happen.
              2. Corneli
                -2
                21 August 2013 19: 56
                Quote: ATATA
                The left hand cannot be equal with the whole body.
                A body without a hand is crippled, a hand without a body is simply an amputated limb.

                And how is it to be disabled? It is probably necessary to kick more "hand" with his feet in the hope that she will "change her mind" and understand that she is "loved". In practice, it is more likely that another body will climb up and with sweet tales will convince the “hand” to go where they will not be beaten, but will be treated “equally”. And the ent's hand will lie with the "good uncle" in the refrigerator in reserve, and the unreasonable body will remain so disabled, with this approach.
                Although I want to believe all the same, that both the "hand" and "body" all the same will begin to think with their heads and cheto change to the best
                1. 0
                  22 August 2013 02: 49
                  Quote: Corneli
                  In practice, it is more likely that another body will come up and with sweet tales will convince the "hand" to go where they will not be beaten, but will be "treated equally".

                  Her arm was completely crazy, she forgot about the immune rejection from someone else's body.
                  1. Corneli
                    0
                    22 August 2013 14: 00
                    Quote: ATATA
                    Her arm was completely crazy, she forgot about the immune rejection from someone else's body.

                    I have not forgotten, although antibiotics and other miracles of surgery have not yet been canceled. But, in a disabled body (armless), from pain and discomfort to see, the mind has become clouded and the "body" cannot think of any smarter way to kick "its hand" with its feet. And at the same time he expects the "hand" to be happy and crawl back to the body.
            2. +8
              21 August 2013 10: 43
              Quote: Akim

              Both countries want this. Only equal.

              There can be no equality where budgets are different. Ukraine lives at the expense of the IMF, and Russia for its own, what equality or will you pay on par with Russia?
            3. Misantrop
              +5
              21 August 2013 10: 45
              Quote: Akim
              Only equal.
              Will Ukraine get equal rights from association with the EU? IMHO about this there can be no question. But from Moscow, Kiev wants to get the right to unpunished nonsense. Since smart actions and decisions beneficial to both countries, and so will receive approval
              1. Akim
                +2
                21 August 2013 11: 21
                Quote: Misantrop
                Will Ukraine get equal rights from association with the EU?

                I don’t think so. Only they don’t make us cancer in advance and don’t pull us on the chains.
                1. +3
                  21 August 2013 12: 35
                  Yes, you sho? But what about the indicated plans for the destruction of industry, the adoption of EU standards. Why, even the railroad is forced to alter. This is called do not pose? They don’t pull - yes, you’re crawling yourself, you’re also wagging your tail so that they can be put on the chain faster.
                  1. Akim
                    +1
                    21 August 2013 12: 45
                    Quote: alicante11
                    Why, even the railroad is forced to alter.

                    Be kind. Where is this information from?
                    1. 0
                      21 August 2013 13: 00
                      From the document on association with the EU submitted to you, in the sense of Ukraine.
                      1. Akim
                        +1
                        21 August 2013 13: 15
                        Quote: alicante11
                        in the sense of Ukraine, an association document with the EU.

                        Has anyone seen him? I searched for these 500 pages - so far to no avail.
                      2. TRAFFIC
                        0
                        21 August 2013 14: 25
                        Well, it is already in Ukrainian http://comeuroint.rada.gov.ua/komevroint/doccatalog/document?id=56219, let the person there indicate where "they are forced to change the railway", but in general, the point is not, I already when -that laid out a list of EU countries in which the track width is different from the generally accepted in the EU and nothing, no one forces them to "alter" the tracks. It all came from some article where it was said about this, there was a lot of things that were invented, including including a ban on bazaar trade. laughing
                      3. 0
                        21 August 2013 14: 32
                        Quote: TRAFIC
                        Well, already in Ukrainian

                        Traffic, there are all the documents in Ukrainian. Davai in terms of numbers and money specifically, what, how much in money, in tons, Ukraine will win. Without idle talk, I'm tired of just scratching my tongue.
                      4. TRAFFIC
                        0
                        21 August 2013 20: 34
                        Alexander, it’s not about money, it’s more like a saying, about what’s better to give, a fish or a fishing rod.
                      5. +2
                        22 August 2013 06: 26
                        Quote: TRAFIC
                        , it’s not about money, it’s more like a saying

                        Hahaha laughing In short, it is clear that Ukraine does not need money, and then what is the benefit?
                      6. 0
                        21 August 2013 16: 28
                        Not 500, but 900, the fact of the matter is that it turns out is secret.
                      7. Akim
                        -1
                        21 August 2013 16: 44
                        Quote: alicante11
                        , the fact of the matter is that it turns out - secretly.

                        Yeah, like the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact.
                2. -1
                  21 August 2013 15: 00
                  Quote: Akim
                  I don’t think so. Only they don’t make us cancer in advance and don’t pull us on the chains.


                  They don’t need to strain, for them Ukrainian authorities will do everything.
                  You will see! You yourself will be disgusted ...
    4. +3
      21 August 2013 09: 09
      Quote: Akim
      So, there all the products are Chinese, or grown by Chinese farmers on Russian soil

      You can buy both Chinese and Japanese and ours, by wallet.
      Quote: Akim
      Russia - and how will you feed your people yourself if you argue with everyone?

      Well, Ukraine is not all! Yes, they somehow survived, times were worse. And I draw attention to the fact that the screams started from Ukraine, in Russia, as they didn’t notice the problems from the lack of goods from Ukraine, but you smell fried.
      1. Akim
        -3
        21 August 2013 09: 34
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And I draw attention to the fact that the screams began from the side of Ukraine, in Russia, as they didn’t notice the problems from the lack of goods from Ukraine

        I noticed. It’s just that the media don’t convey it to you. Naturally, Ukraine would now start retaliatory actions; in Russia, citizens would consider that Kiev was the first to attack. This is part of the information war.
        1. +8
          21 August 2013 09: 40
          Quote: Akim
          I noticed.

          Noticed A ??? I don’t catch, I communicate with whom, with a guy or a lady?
          Quote: Akim
          Naturally, start Ukraine’s response now, in Russia, citizens would consider that Kiev was the first to attack

          What actions, Ukraine does not have anything right now, it won’t take gas, the fleet too. And there and there the contract, everything, Carcasses of the light, throw a grenade laughing
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. 0
              21 August 2013 10: 04
              Quote: Akim
              Russia - has a feminine gender

              Quote: Akim
              I understood.

              And then the genus has changed?
              Quote: Akim

              Ignorance does not make a person smart!

              Laudable self-criticism wink
              1. Akim
                -1
                21 August 2013 10: 15
                Do not take me away from the economy in LikBez.
                from Ukraine, in Russia, as they did not notice problems from the lack of goods from Ukraine,

                It was a response to comment. If it’s hard for you to build logical fabrications, I will communicate in binary code.
                1. -1
                  21 August 2013 10: 47
                  Quote: Akim
                  Do not take me away from the economy in LikBez.

                  What educational program, I just want to know who I'm talking to.
                  Quote: Akim
                  I understood

                  Quote: Akim
                  I noticed.

                  Have you changed sex or what?
                  Quote: Akim
                  Russia - has a feminine gender.

                  So you say it on behalf of Russia, but you thought the Kremlin was to blame for everything on behalf of Ukraine. I haven’t seen a more stupid excuse.
                  Quote: Akim

                  It was a response to comment.

                  Where is the answer then? It seems I can read Russian, even between the lines of the answer I did not see.
                  1. +1
                    21 August 2013 13: 07
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Have you changed sex or what?

                    ... let slip
                  2. Corneli
                    -3
                    21 August 2013 20: 08
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Have you changed sex or what?

                    When you start to see what the person writes, and not what you want to "see" there, communication will become easier:
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    And I draw attention to the fact that the screams began from Ukraine, in Russia, as they did not notice the problems from the lack of goods from Ukraine

                    Quote: Akim
                    I noticed.(in the sense of Russia) It’s just that the media don’t convey it to you. Naturally, Ukraine would now start retaliatory actions; in Russia, citizens would consider that Kiev was the first to attack.

                    But you didn't want to understand what the person answered you) You "noticed" the current you saw! And three posts explained to you what exactly the person wrote:

                    Quote: Akim
                    Russia - has a feminine gender. This is for graduates from the exam.

                    And to no purpose:
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Have you changed sex or what?

                    request
                    1. -1
                      22 August 2013 06: 24
                      Quote: Corneli
                      But you didn't want to understand what the person answered you) You "noticed" the current you saw! And three posts explained to you what exactly the person wrote:

                      What a man with a beautiful female name KIM wrote hi
                      1. Akim
                        +2
                        22 August 2013 08: 11
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        with a beautiful female name KIM

                        That's why it's sometimes hard to argue with you like that. You know that you are wrong, but you still stubbornly prove that black is white. The female version of the name KIMKA. I do not add the suffix "A" to your full name.
                        Kim Il Sung was also not like a woman.
                      2. Corneli
                        +1
                        22 August 2013 14: 06
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        What a man with a beautiful female name KIM wrote then he saw hi

                        Akim - male name (e.g.: Akim, Efraim Lazarevich - Soviet and Russian scientist in the field of space ballistics, navigation of spacecraft and planetology) http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BA%D0 % B8% D0% BC
                        But you mean WOMAN - KIM.
                        I understand that you, dear, belong to the category of people who are easier to shoot than admit that they were mistaken in something. They will argue until they stop (
                2. -3
                  21 August 2013 15: 48
                  Quote: Akim
                  It was a response to comment. If it’s hard for you to build logical fabrications, I will communicate in binary code.


                  Do you no longer like more traditional forms of communication?

                  Provide information confirmed by facts (from reliable sources satisfying both sides of the discussion) and then you can convey YOUR truth to people
                  1. Akim
                    0
                    21 August 2013 15: 54
                    Quote: Corsair
                    (from reliable sources Satisfying both parties to the discussion)

                    And what are reliable sources for you? Official documents - there are none, because there was supposedly nothing.
                    1. -2
                      21 August 2013 16: 25
                      Quote: Akim
                      And what are reliable sources for you? Official documents - there are none, because there was supposedly nothing.

                      Look for points of contact, knock and they will open you.
                      ANYTHING (except stupid and radical-minded opponents) can be convinced by the facts.
                      In your comments this (in this thread) is not yet visible.
                      And besides, no offense, you came to the Russian site to carry your truth to Russian users and it is "a priori" forgivable for them to post without proof. And you, since you "got involved" you want or don't want, but you need to "cover" with arguments ...
                      1. Akim
                        +3
                        21 August 2013 16: 36
                        Quote: Corsair
                        You came to the Russian site to carry your truth to Russian users

                        Do not believe - do not. I have no particular desire to persuade. Here Romanov shouted that association documents in Ukrainian. If it's so hard to move F ... and translate (not about you). And so in many ways. I especially like in technical and military articles - when they require documentary evidence from me.
            2. +2
              21 August 2013 10: 19
              Quote: Akim
              Ignorance does not make a person smart!

              Enlighten us miserable Ugrofinordovtsev?
              1. Akim
                +4
                21 August 2013 10: 37
                Quote: ATATA
                us miserable Ugrofinordovtsev?

                Have I ever said something like that? Why are you trying to reveal anger in me? Open the Internet and see what Ukraine imports from Russia.
                1. 0
                  21 August 2013 11: 16
                  Quote: Akim
                  Open the Internet and see what Ukraine imports from Russia.

                  Here, Russia will quickly redirect flows, and Ukraine will become a stake.
        2. 0
          21 August 2013 10: 17
          Quote: Akim
          Naturally, Ukraine would now start retaliatory actions; in Russia, citizens would consider that Kiev was the first to attack. This is part of the information war.

          Give an example of what Ukraine can do to Russia, so that Ukraine itself does not lose twice as much?
          "While the fat one dries, the thin one dies." (FROM)
          1. Akim
            +2
            21 August 2013 10: 27
            Quote: ATATA
            Give an example of what Ukraine can do to Russia,

            Similarly, slow down its export to Ukrainian customs. Even transit.
            1. +3
              21 August 2013 10: 41
              Quote: Akim
              Similarly, slow down its export to Ukrainian customs. Even transit.

              A distant relative near Odessa makes good money on port operations with transit cargo. He will lose something like a man.
              But the losses of Ukraine as a state will be significantly, simply disproportionately greater than the short-term losses of Russia.
              By the way, Belarusians will not earn badly on this action of Ukraine.
              But for Russia, in general, there will be no noticeable consequences.
              1. Akim
                0
                21 August 2013 10: 54
                Quote: ATATA
                By the way, Belarusians will not earn badly on this action of Ukraine.
                But for Russia, in general, there will be no noticeable consequences.

                Well "naturally". A small territorial country of Belarus, will let all flows through itself. I understand you want to think that you are independent here, but this is not so. That the goods will be slowed down at the Ukrainian customs for 3-04 days, the same amount they will stand at the Belarusian checkpoints due to the increased flow. See the ferry crossing to Kerch. The Russians stand for days. They cannot return from vacation. Ferries can't keep up with the queue.
                1. 0
                  21 August 2013 11: 19
                  Quote: Akim
                  That cargo will be braked at Ukrainian customs for 3-04 days

                  As soon as this happens, no one will be lucky there.
                  Quote: Akim
                  they will stand at Belarus checkpoints as much because of the increased flow.

                  There is no customs, only external wassat
                  1. Akim
                    -1
                    21 August 2013 11: 31
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    There is no customs, only external

                    And we are talking about the outside nice man.
                    1. -1
                      21 August 2013 12: 01
                      Quote: Akim
                      And we are talking about the outside nice man.

                      With you, we have both internal and external, but along the border of Belarus only the external and that works in general terms. So by hi
                      1. Akim
                        0
                        21 August 2013 12: 21
                        The conversation was about transit cargo. Those. to Europe. Belarus is not able to cope with such a stream.
                      2. +2
                        21 August 2013 12: 53
                        Quote: Akim
                        Belarus is not able to cope with such a stream

                        Yes, it was already, through Finland and the Baltic states they will go. The Baltic countries are poor, it will only be for it.
                      3. +3
                        21 August 2013 20: 40
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Yes, it was already, through Finland and the Baltic states they will go. The Baltic countries are poor, it will only be for it.

                        Novorossiysk will rise, there the port will be expanded and a second track of the railway will be built, so the redirection of goods is inevitable.
              2. fastblast
                0
                21 August 2013 14: 30
                Yes?
                And the fact that the wagons grew idle at the border and 1 day for the wagon is 500 green losses You probably have not heard?

                I advise you, especially literate, it is better not to write if you do not know.
            2. 0
              21 August 2013 10: 48
              Quote: Akim
              Similarly, slow down its export to Ukrainian customs. Even transit.

              Hahaha, near Belarus laughing
        3. +1
          21 August 2013 11: 15
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          in Russia, as they did not notice problems from the lack of goods from Ukraine

          Quote: Akim
          I noticed. It’s just that the media don’t bring it to you

          I say for sure - no one noticed anything !!!
          For example, the situation with Ukrainian cheese in my village: there was no Ukrainian cheese - there was Ukrainian cheese - there was no Ukrainian cheese.
          The availability and consumption of cheese was not affected either by the appearance or disappearance of Ukrainian cheese. For its manufacturers are enough.
          The situation is the same for sweets. Well, maybe when the previously brought in is eaten up, the absence of Ukrainian books will become noticeable. But this is not a basic commodity and its absence will not affect the availability and consumption of sweets.
          I can’t say anything about other Ukrainian goods, because they do not reach my village, so their absence will also go unnoticed.
          1. Akim
            0
            21 August 2013 11: 34
            Quote: antiaircrafter
            I can’t say anything about other Ukrainian goods, because they do not reach my village, so their absence will also go unnoticed.

            And at my place there are only Russian sockets - but this does not mean that there are few Russian goods.
        4. +2
          21 August 2013 19: 22
          Quote: Akim
          And I draw attention to the fact that the screams began from the side of Ukraine, in Russia, as they didn’t notice the problems from the lack of goods from Ukraine
          I noticed. It’s just that the media don’t reach you.

          I specifically asked my wife about Ukrainian goods. I remembered cheese. All. I don’t even remember cheese. Well, I also saw the creations of the Ukrainian auto industry. So, Akim, your ideas about Russia's dependence on Ukrainian products are somewhat different from reality, but it is just the opposite. Of course, there is still cooperation in the field of aircraft engines, rocket technology ... But it will quickly come to naught in case of association with the EU. And it seems to me that I know: who will get worse from this ...
          1. Akim
            -1
            21 August 2013 19: 40
            Quote: retired
            So Akim, your ideas about Russia's dependence on Ukrainian products are somewhat different from reality,

            I did not talk about addiction. Russia, too, in the form of entrepreneurs, is losing money. Those who are tied to Ukrainian products, and this is not only food, incur losses. And this is hundreds of millions of rubles.
          2. +6
            21 August 2013 20: 00
            Quote: retired
            Well, I also saw the creations of the Ukrainian auto industry.

            Hi hello hi By the way, my first car is the ZAZ968m unkillable vehicle laughing And how he from the place of behi and gelding through tram tracks made just a song good
            1. +1
              21 August 2013 20: 18
              Hi Ruslan! I'm glad to see you. fellow Well, constipation in another era produced. And how he climbed through the mud! I was just amazed. Almost on a par with UAZ! I got up on planing. Once went hunting in it. 7 people. And once I stole potatoes at night quickly wanted to cram into the trunk. Behind fool I didn’t understand right away: why it wasn’t successful ... True, before the operation "Potato" was not a weak preparation for it. Not all fighters were able to participate ...
              1. +2
                21 August 2013 20: 24
                Quote: retired
                I quickly wanted to cram into the trunk. Behind fool I did not immediately understand: why it does not work out.

                I saw on the Kiev highway how the 300th gelding entered the lobovuha with constipation wassat grandfather drove rubble to the cottage-sprinkle a path crying laughing
                1. +1
                  21 August 2013 20: 38
                  I suspect that the owner of the gelding became the lucky owner of about 0.5 cubic meters of rubble ... The hood of the constipation was not securely closed ...
                  1. +3
                    21 August 2013 20: 41
                    Quote: retired
                    .Hood for constipation unreliably closed ...

                    Because everyone saw that it was fully opened wassat
                    1. +1
                      21 August 2013 22: 42
                      We somehow also opened. When overtaking ... Not on time ...
          3. Corneli
            -2
            21 August 2013 20: 44
            Quote: retired
            I specifically asked my wife about Ukrainian goods. I remembered cheese. All. I don’t even remember cheese. Well, I also saw the creations of the Ukrainian auto industry. So, Akim, your ideas about Russia's dependence on Ukrainian products are somewhat different from reality, but it is just the opposite.

            In 2011, Russia's exports to Ukraine - 27179 cu, import - 17967 cu To the countries of the CU export - 38980 cu, import - 19175 cu Total export - 524727 cu, import - 312567 cu As a percentage: approx 5% of all exports and 5,5% of imports is for Russia For Ukraine: 27.3% of all exports and 32%. Like didn’t confuse anything). I did not find data norms for 2012 (
            So you can see for yourself what and who will hit or can hit
            1. Corneli
              -4
              21 August 2013 22: 03
              Quote: Corneli
              I did not find data norms for 2012 (
              So you can see for yourself what and who will hit or can hit

              Oh how someone likes me) Minus for the statistics of trade turnover with
              http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b13_01/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d01/2-2-5-1.htm и вики))) Секретные данные опубликовал шоли? )
            2. 0
              21 August 2013 22: 12
              Quote: Corneli
              So you can see for yourself what and who will hit or can hit

              You can hit yourself. On the forehead. You look, you see.
              1. Corneli
                +1
                21 August 2013 22: 32
                Quote: retired
                You can hit yourself. On the forehead. You look, you see

                Do not understand any "poking" or rudeness? Are you respected, is that how you communicate with everyone? Or are you sick and not adequate?
                1. -2
                  21 August 2013 22: 50
                  Quote: Corneli
                  Or sick and not adequate?

                  Today I am more adequate than ever! And I do not consider it necessary to address an invisible interlocutor on "YOU". What if it's Hitler. God forbid, of course. But I do not exclude the option that a person who is categorically not shaking hands with amiable people communicates with me. So I insure myself in a similar ("YOU") way. YOU didn't convince me that I could respect YOU. At least for the duration of my freeze on the site. You can call me whatever you like.
                  1. Corneli
                    +1
                    21 August 2013 23: 19
                    Quote: retired
                    Exactly today I'm more adequate than ever! And I do not consider it necessary to address an invisible interlocutor on "YOU". What if it’s Hitler. God forbid of course.

                    The question of "adequacy" is removed.
                    Quote: retired
                    But the option that a person communicates with me categorically unshakable by various people, I do not exclude.

                    Mutually, and my "option" is already growing into a conviction about you. Inadequate boors are not shaking hands with decent people in any country in the world.
                    Quote: retired
                    So I insure myself in a similar ("YOU") way.

                    Normal people when talking to strangers appeal to you, this is elementary politeness (exceptions if a person insulted you on the fly), before that, I thought that politeness is welcome on this site. So the excuse seems pathetic (
                    Quote: retired
                    YOU have not convinced me that I can respect you. At least for the time of my hanging on the site. You can call me - as you please.

                    To convince inadequate boors so that they "respect" me?) I don't seem to be in the zone. So, pensioner, you never see my respect or any "convictions" ... You can just put me in a muddle. And it is advisable not to write to me.
                    1. 0
                      21 August 2013 23: 33
                      Quote: Corneli
                      ... You can just put me in trouble. And preferably I do not write.


                      What is "mut" I did not understand. But I was not going to write to YOU. And I'm not Onegin and YOU are not Tatiana. I hope ...
                  2. general
                    +1
                    22 August 2013 16: 22
                    Quote: retired
                    sarious people, I do not exclude

                    that yurik- "great" at school studied?
            3. 0
              22 August 2013 06: 20
              Quote: Corneli
              Interest: approx 5% of total exports and 5,5% of imports

              And then yours squealed laughing
              1. Corneli
                +2
                22 August 2013 14: 32
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                And then yours screeched laughing

                I did not understand the question? Why did Ukrainian entrepreneurs "screech" at the alleged loss of 5,5% of imports from Ukraine by Russia? If so, then they "squealed" from their 30%.
                I understand that in Russia with a budget of 400 lard, the loss of some $ 18 billion is garbage, but for Ukraine it is 35% of the budget. So yes, in Russia no one will "screech" from the alleged loss of the third in import and seventh in export "partner". Here's an embargo to China, yes ... 3% of China is not miserable 7% (I did find some statistics for 16) of Ukraine.
          4. -1
            22 August 2013 03: 17
            ABOUT! I also remembered! Ukrainian wallpaper. Rare rubbish!
    5. +2
      21 August 2013 09: 32
      Quote: Akim
      Russia - how will you feed your people yourself,

      Something like Akim:
      The Miratorg Agro-Industrial Holding, founded in 1995, is today one of the leading producers and suppliers of meat in the Russian market.

      The enterprises included in the holding carry out a full production cycle: from the field to the counter. Such an organizational structure gives Miratorg Agribusiness Holding the opportunity to be independent of the situation in various commodity markets, changes in prices for certain types of raw materials, optimize production costs and minimize possible risks. Vertical integration allows Miratorg Agribusiness Holding to control the quality of products and provide maximum efficiency at all stages of production.

      Thanks to the active use of the best world experience and the latest technologies, highly qualified management and staff, the holding shows high production and financial results.

      In terms of efficiency, Miratorg Agribusiness Holding enterprises are not inferior to European ones: the main production indicators are at the level of the world's leading manufacturers and significantly exceed the average Russian ones.

      In 2008, Miratorg Agro-Industrial Holding was included in the list of 295 backbone enterprises of the Russian Federation, approved by the Government Commission on Improving the Sustainability of the Development of the Russian Economy, formed on the basis of the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 15 of 2008 of December N 957.

      The company is focused on continuous professional growth of employees. Internships are organized for the management and specialists of the company at leading Russian and foreign enterprises.

      All enterprises of Miratorg Agribusiness Holding comply with international environmental standards. The holding takes care of environmental protection, takes an active part in the social life of those regions where the holding enterprises are represented, and adheres to the principles of ethical business conduct.

      Investment activity

      More than 100 billion rubles of completed investments.

      Activities

      Crop production;
      Compound feed production;
      Livestock;
      Primary meat processing;
      Deep meat processing;
      Low-temperature transport and warehouse logistics;
      Food distribution.

      Number of staff

      More than 15 000 people.

      Activity geography

      15 regions of Russia.

      Customer network

      More than 16 000 customers in various regions of Russia.
    6. IGS
      +1
      21 August 2013 13: 07
      1. This is definitely a big country. And yes, on the logistics side, goods from China are cheaper.
      2. Exactly 22 years ago, you yelled the same thing. Have you been taught anything for almost a quarter century? You cannot live without Russia, not we without you.
    7. +2
      21 August 2013 13: 41
      Quote: Akim
      Russia - and how will you feed your people yourself if you argue with everyone?

      Here, Akim, the point is that no one, even of the highest principles, will refuse to sell if offered a price. Well, I cannot imagine such a situation that Ukraine will proudly turn away from the offers of Russian buyers: "I myself will not sell to moscow.
      1. Akim
        +2
        21 August 2013 13: 53
        Quote: Flood
        Well, I cannot imagine such a situation that Ukraine will proudly turn away from the offers of Russian buyers: "I myself will not sell to moscow.

        Of course not. She still does not turn away. You just need to pinpoint these hot heads: We ourselves.. We also need to work ourselves, and not change Moldovan wine to Chilean sour meat or Ukrainian bird to Polish.
        1. +1
          21 August 2013 14: 13
          Quote: Akim
          instead of changing Moldovan wine to Chilean sour

          Akim something I’ve seen more and more Crimean wines in stores lately the truth is surely the same sourness because real wine is not worth 300-400rub, even Artyomovsk champagne has appeared.
          Quote: Akim
          Ukrainian bird to polish.

          But this product has not met any Polish or Ukrainian in our "Prioskolye", "Petelinka", "Stavropol Broiler", "Mosselprom".
          and which of them are Ukrainian?
          1. Akim
            +1
            21 August 2013 14: 34
            Quote: mhpv
            because real wine is not worth 300-400 rubles

            95-100 hryvnia per bottle? That's cool. We can buy real Georgian at fifty dollars (50 hryvnias). In general, Tairovsky wines (Odessa) cost 18-20 hryvnias. Crimean also, Koblevsky, etc. at the same price.
            About the bird there is not even the opportunity to make excuses after this.
            1. +1
              21 August 2013 14: 41
              Quote: Akim
              We can buy real Georgian at fifty dollars (50 hryvnias)

              This is real Georgian wine, made by Garik Avanesyan and possibly in the basement of a house next to you lol
              1. Akim
                +2
                21 August 2013 14: 57
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                This is real Georgian wine, made

                No. If you think so, we drink one boarde. I live in the land of wines and cognac (Odessa region, Transnistria, Moldova) and believe me I can distinguish it by taste.
            2. +1
              21 August 2013 15: 14
              Quote: Akim
              95-100 hryvnia per bottle? That's cool. We can buy real Georgian at fifty dollars (50 hryvnia)

              Yeah Akim, I did not expect such naivety from you.
              You want to say that Ukraine is able to provide real inexpensive wine (according to 200r recourse ) and yourself and Russia, and probably others? Open the eyes of a naive, it will not be wine anymore, or do you want to say that in Kiev Crimean wine costs the same 80grn. laughing Drink the same burda as Chilean sour meat yourself.
              And you can’t justify yourself about the bird because it is not on the Russian shelves, if I doubt it in the border villages.
              1. Akim
                +2
                21 August 2013 15: 29
                Quote: mhpv
                You want to say that Ukraine is able to provide real inexpensive wine (200 rubles each) and itself and Russia


                I don’t know about Russia, but I can do it myself. For example, I’m going to buy it at all for 10 hryvnias (40 rubles) per liter. At the beginning of the season in the villages to buy a couple of bottles (20 liters each). There is no more room in the house. As for self-sufficiency. Yes, not all regions have the same tastes. I came to my friends in Donetsk, and there they drink ... vodka. It is 2 times cheaper than cognac -25 hryvnia (100 rubles) - but also good. They do not drink wine there, but drink vodka with Sarmat beer. I don’t like that. When they are visiting me they are also unusual.
                1. +2
                  21 August 2013 15: 40
                  And with this I completely agree with you.
                  Still, you take the Crimean home-made wine, not the production one. I also took good home-made wine from the landlords that year, although I prefer vodka because of the acidity sold in stores, as you say (Khortytsa was preferable, sorry if it goes away) .
                  1. Akim
                    +2
                    21 August 2013 16: 05
                    Quote: mhpv
                    All the same, then you take home-made Crimean wine, not production

                    In early summer, Polish tourists at the Tairov Institute bought gift baskets (6 different wines. The price is 30 hryvnias (120 rubles) per 0,7 bottle). Pretty good wine. And they drove me at all for free. True, half is white.
          2. +1
            22 August 2013 00: 04
            Quote: mhpv
            because real wine is not worth 300-400 rubles

            It's worth it ... it's worth it ... it's more expensive, like Golitsin's "Seventh Heaven" ...
        2. +2
          21 August 2013 14: 51
          Quote: Akim
          instead of changing Moldovan wine to Chilean sour

          Sour meat is not only Chilean, but also Spanish, for example.
          In my memory, and with my participation, our Moldovan winemakers imported low-grade Spanish wine material. Of course, the wine from it was not good (even when blending 1 to 3, the quality suffers significantly), but Moldovan.
  7. 12061973
    -10
    21 August 2013 07: 45
    some kind of theater of the absurd. Some countries are forcing others to peace, Russia to join the customs union. Saakashvili is a goat, but Borjomi, the water is good, if that is the case then import will be completely covered, in America, Japan wants the Kuril Islands, and I don’t like Old Man Putin, and .td., is there really no other leverage than to limit the choice of goods for buyers in Russia.
    1. +3
      21 August 2013 09: 11
      Quote: 12061973
      .td., is there really no other leverage than to limit the choice of goods for buyers in Russia.

      But somehow we don’t notice a reduction in choice, Russia has a choice, unlike Ukraine wink
      1. +1
        21 August 2013 10: 06
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: 12061973
        .td., is there really no other leverage than to limit the choice of goods for buyers in Russia.

        But somehow we don’t notice a reduction in choice, Russia has a choice, unlike Ukraine wink

        Bravo, you can’t say better.
      2. 12061973
        -1
        21 August 2013 10: 57
        Quote: Alexander Romanov

        But somehow we don’t notice a reduction in choice, Russia has a choice, unlike Ukraine wink

        try Ukrainian beer, even the cheapest is better than the Baltic many times. I’m writing about a precedent, today Ukraine, and tomorrow who doesn’t like who Onishchenko will incite.
        1. -2
          21 August 2013 11: 21
          Quote: 12061973
          try Ukrainian beer, even the cheapest is better than the Baltic many times.

          Yes, to me Ukrainian beer fell a couple with Baltic. I’ll drink a golden barrel, or at the bar on tap.
          Quote: 12061973
          I’m writing about a precedent, today Ukraine, and tomorrow who doesn’t like who Onishchenko will incite.

          I think after Ukraine, there will be no one who wants to throw Russia.
          1. 12061973
            -2
            21 August 2013 16: 00
            and it’s better than a golden barrel, but the bar can also end like there are problems with the Czech Republic and Germany.
  8. -15
    21 August 2013 07: 57
    Everything is much more commonplace. Russian manufacturers, in pursuit of profit, began to produce outright bullshit. And consumers are also not fools, in principle they can distinguish a more or less high-quality product from denatured alcohol. So, for example, with chocolate - there are 2-3 manufacturers left in Russia, whose candies still resemble the taste of chocolate. Roshen, at least, provides a reasonable price-performance ratio. The same applies to Belarusian and Ukrainian manufacturers of products, which are outperforming Russian competitors in quality. And Russia uses non-economic methods of competition, inventing fairy tales about benzopyrene in Ukrainian sweets (let them take the products of Chelyabinsk Mirel for research, so they will find the entire periodic table in their cakes).
    1. +8
      21 August 2013 09: 29
      Quote: Prometey
      Everything is much more commonplace. In pursuit of profit, Russian manufacturers began to produce outright bullshit.

      Oh, and here’s the victim of Ukrainian media propaganda laughing
      1. +2
        21 August 2013 13: 18
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Oh, and here’s the victim of Ukrainian media propaganda

        I do not have a channel with Ukrainian media. Better explain why our media are silent about the large-scale crisis in the country, and politicians pretend that everything is fine and there is no action? Overproduction along with a large-scale financial crisis is evident.
    2. +1
      21 August 2013 11: 01
      Quote: Prometey
      Everything is much more commonplace. In pursuit of profit, Russian manufacturers began to produce outright bullshit.

      The brother, arriving on a visit, brought somehow the products of Russian confectioners ... So it will be more tasty than Roshenovskaya. And this is not only my opinion - not one tasted ... Most likely the question is in price. What is vodka, what is candy - cheaper in Ukraine ...
      1. 0
        21 August 2013 11: 23
        Quote: alex13-61
        . Most likely the issue is the price. What is vodka, what is candy - cheaper in Ukraine ...

        Where do you all live, well, I saw Ukrainian sweets, but vodka belay Yes, ours, at least rejoice.
        1. +1
          21 August 2013 13: 34
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Yes, ours, at least rejoice.

          Our cheaper - and they’re being driven: the norm is 2 bottles ...
    3. +2
      21 August 2013 11: 48
      Is that Roshen's chocolate? Do not make me laugh. This is something like the old "Palm", only artificial through and through.
  9. +1
    21 August 2013 07: 58
    hi
    There are no other levers of influence except to limit the choice of goods for buyers in Russia.
    These policy elements are not directed against the people of a particular country, but against that part of the government and the elite who are trying to make a decision unnecessary for BOTH peoples. At the same time, show what will happen if you lose part of the market. Simple and logical.
    1. Akim
      -15
      21 August 2013 08: 06
      Quote: a52333
      These policy elements are not directed against the people of a particular country, but against that part of the government and the elite,

      These are stupid actions of the Kremlin. Just think, a billionaire will go bankrupt by tens of millions. First of all, pensioners will suffer!
      1. +10
        21 August 2013 09: 13
        Quote: Akim
        These are stupid actions of the Kremlin

        Quote: Akim
        First of all, pensioners will suffer!

        Chet did not understand, and what side does the Kremlin have to do with your retirees? Your nearby government is stirring up water, and the damned Kremlin is to blame ??? Although yes, the same record for 22 years laughing
        1. Akim
          -8
          21 August 2013 09: 38
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Chet did not understand what side the Kremlin has to do with your retirees


          Direct. Those enterprises that import list taxes.
          1. +5
            21 August 2013 10: 06
            Quote: Akim
            Direct. Those enterprises that import list taxes.

            But you "have one foot already wink ... in Europe"
            Quickly reorient your enterprises to marketing products in the Eurozone and all businesses.
            1. Akim
              +2
              21 August 2013 10: 18
              Quote: Corsair
              Quickly reorient your enterprises to marketing products in the Eurozone and all businesses.

              And so it goes. Only not to Europe, but to the Middle East and Asia. But you are a smart person and you understand that it will not be possible to reorient markets quickly.
              1. +6
                21 August 2013 10: 43
                You are a smart person and you understand that it will not be possible to reorient markets quickly.
                20 years to reorient markets is not enough? How much do you need?
              2. +3
                21 August 2013 10: 45
                Quote: Akim
                And so it goes. Only not to Europe, but to the Middle East and Asia. But you are a smart person and you understand that it will not be possible to reorient markets quickly.

                Have armored personnel carriers in Iraq unloaded?
              3. +3
                21 August 2013 10: 51
                Quote: Akim
                And so it goes. Only not to Europe, but to the Middle East and Asia. But you are a smart person and you understand that it will not be possible to reorient markets quickly.

                Aha, sorry, and how much you already do what and remembered 22 years laughing Well we'll wait wink
          2. +7
            21 August 2013 10: 12
            Quote: Akim
            . Those enterprises that import list taxes.

            And then the Kremlin is to blame ??? Your choice, you speak there in the EU and everything will be exactly the same, you will get a lot of things there at all. The Kremlin is not responsible for the actions of your elite. You yourself have chosen and raked. And remember that not only Ukraine is an independent country, but also Russia . Russia also has its own interests, hence the dance.
            P.S As for the independence of Ukraine, I strongly doubt it.
          3. +5
            21 August 2013 10: 23
            Quote: Akim
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Chet did not understand what side the Kremlin has to do with your retirees


            Direct. Those enterprises that import list taxes.

            Quote from Putin at the celebration of 1025 the baptism of Rus in Kiev.
            All that happens after this is your choice gentlemen Ukrainian oligarchs and politicians.
            We no longer have any relation to this.
            1. Akim
              -3
              21 August 2013 10: 39
              Quote: ATATA
              We no longer have any relation to this.

              Give a person a laxative, so that he .. also not a direct Skoda.
              1. +3
                21 August 2013 11: 25
                Quote: Akim
                Give a person a laxative, so that he .. also not a direct Skoda.

                You yourself drink it with success, and you nod to Russia.
                1. Akim
                  -3
                  21 August 2013 12: 03
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  You yourself drink it with success, and you nod to Russia.

                  When you yourself, then there’s nothing to kick in the mirror ... In this case, they slipped the pill.
                  1. +2
                    21 August 2013 16: 46
                    Quote: Akim
                    When you yourself, then there’s nothing to kick in the mirror ... In this case, they slipped the pill.
                    How would you like Russia to kiss your gums for association with the EU?
                    Be realistic!
                    1. Akim
                      +2
                      21 August 2013 17: 00
                      Quote: ATATA
                      for association with the EU, Russia kissed the gums?

                      I understand that you are for the vehicle. If he didn’t become with him, as in the FTZ CIS, which is only on paper. There is a free trade zone with Russia - only this gives little.
            2. +2
              21 August 2013 10: 52
              Quote: ATATA
              All that happens after this is your choice gentlemen Ukrainian oligarchs and politicians.
              We no longer have any relation to this.

              And the Kremlin is also to blame wassat
        2. +2
          21 August 2013 09: 51
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Although yes, the same record for 22 years

          That's the whole point of government VUKRAINEN.
          We cannot do anything, but the Kremlin is to blame.
          Well, here in the photograph, the oldest VUKRAINCY.
      2. +5
        21 August 2013 09: 16
        This is not "stupid actions of the Kremlin", it is a demonstration of what will happen in real life after Ukraine signs an association document with the EU, if Ukraine believes that they will create a duty-free pipe from the EU to Russia, then this is a big delusion. And there is no doubt that the economic interests of the CU countries will be protected.
        1. Akim
          -7
          21 August 2013 09: 36
          Quote: Andrey57
          if Ukraine believes that they will create a duty-free pipe from the EU to Russia

          These "fairy tales" are specially told to you in order to justify your actions.
          1. +9
            21 August 2013 10: 15
            Quote: Akim

            These "fairy tales" are specially told to you in order to justify your actions.

            The Kremlin is again to blame for everything, when will you look at yourself?
            Ukraine is a fully dependent country!
            1.From the actions of the EU.
            2. From the actions of Russia.
            3. From IMF credits.
            4. Congratulations on independence wassat
            1. Akim
              -5
              21 August 2013 10: 30
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              1.From the actions of the EU.
              2. From the actions of Russia.
              3. From IMF credits.

              Read the alphabet for beginners in economics. For three years Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF. Generally from no one. Only from the European Development Bank and then individual enterprises.
              1. +5
                21 August 2013 10: 50
                Quote: Akim
                For three years Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF. Generally from no one. Only from the European Development Bank and then individual enterprises.

                "Evgeny Bakulin, head of Naftogaz Ukrainy, said that the company is negotiating with Gazprombank about the possibility of extending the loan maturity by 5 years. This loan in the amount of $ 2 billion was received in July 2012 to settle with Gazprom for gas supply.
                Читайте дальше: http://www.pronedra.ru/gas/2013/07/17/naftogaz-gazprombank/#ixzz2caFt9izk"


                You too often write lies. Why?
                1. Akim
                  0
                  21 August 2013 11: 13
                  Quote: Nikolai S.
                  You too often write lies. Why?

                  Okay, I missed it. My fault. And WRONG is what you don’t always want to hear. Generally a weird loan. Take money from Russia to pay off with Russia itself. This is how the Chinese want to build a piece of iron with their money from Boryspil to Kiev by the hands of Chinese workers and Chinese tools.
                  1. +2
                    21 August 2013 11: 35
                    Quote: Akim
                    Generally a weird loan. Take money from Russia to pay off with Russia itself.


                    And all from the fact that Ukraine is not free in its decisions, if China were your neighbor, you would still bring the instrument to the Chinese.
                    1. Akim
                      -7
                      21 August 2013 12: 05
                      Quote: Corsair
                      And all from the fact that Ukraine is not free in its decisions,

                      Well, of course. We are all just driven, and Russia is super. Do not carry nonsense. Both countries are sitting in a swamp. As soon as you stuck your head out.
                      1. +3
                        21 August 2013 13: 00
                        Quote: Akim
                        Both countries are sitting in a swamp. As soon as you stuck your head out.

                        And she breathes, with full breasts.
                        And Ukraine needs artificial ventilation of the lungs, as premature fetus.
                        And it is not clear whether the "baby" will survive without the "umbilical cord" connecting the two peoples.
                        "Injections of" Western "doctors" (EU, WTO, EBRD, IMF, NATO) can only prolong the agony ...

                        And there you need?
                      2. Akim
                        +2
                        21 August 2013 13: 25
                        Quote: Corsair
                        And she breathes, with full breasts.
                        And Ukraine needs artificial ventilation of the lungs

                        Those. Do you agree that we are sitting in the same place? Ukraine is breathing through a tube, but still breathing.
                      3. +4
                        21 August 2013 14: 03
                        Quote: Akim
                        Those. Do you agree that we are sitting in the same place? Ukraine is breathing through a tube, but still breathing.


                        But in the last decade, Russia has abruptly gone "to the edge" (economically), while Ukraine has remained "with a pipe", in spite of all the prerequisites for development that it still has.
                        For Ukraine, "dumping" into Europe is an inevitable collapse in both political and economic independence.
                        Priorities for Ukraine’s admission to the European Union are not for the West (I hope you understand this?) The nature of sponsorship and philanthropy ...
                      4. Akim
                        -4
                        21 August 2013 14: 11
                        Quote: Corsair
                        But in the last decade, Russia has sharply gone "into the lead" (economically)

                        Oh, I don’t believe something. In Odessa there are many guests from Russia. There was someone to talk to. Not counting their trips to the Rostov, Kursk region and the Krasnodar Territory.
                        Quote: Corsair
                        Priorities for Ukraine’s admission to the European Union are not (I hope you understand this?) The nature of sponsorship and philanthropy ...

                        We still need to live up to adoption (EU membership). The free trade zone does not determine the timing.
                      5. +3
                        21 August 2013 16: 04
                        Quote: Akim
                        Oh, something I don’t believe.

                        And you don't just take the word for it, but scour the Internet, foreign, Ukrainian, Russian economic publications ...
                        Separate all the "garbage" and get a complete "picture". And THEN you will be able to understand whether there was a "breakaway" or not, and if you go further, then you will understand why Ukraine "stalled" and what prospects it would have moving along with the Russian Federation ...
                      6. Akim
                        -3
                        21 August 2013 16: 13
                        Quote: Corsair
                        And you don't just take the word for it, but scour the Internet, foreign, Ukrainian, Russian economic publications ...

                        The Internet is a valuable thing (recently, mankind has invented two necessary things: a mobile phone and No), but I'm used to talking to people (at least a couple of months ago). And after a week of rest and a liter of cognac begin to cry. Well, the Russian soul - why not cry. And then you need to summarize.
                  2. 0
                    21 August 2013 12: 41
                    Generally a weird loan. Take money from Russia to pay off with Russia itself. This is how the Chinese want to build a piece of iron with their money from Boryspil to Kiev by the hands of Chinese workers and Chinese tools.


                    Learned from amers. Give money that will immediately return back, but the client still has to. Sorry, we are not brothers now - capitalism.
              2. +6
                21 August 2013 10: 50
                Quote: Akim
                Read the alphabet for beginners in economics. Ukraine is already three years old did not receive IMF loans. Generally from no one. Only from the European Development Bank and then individual enterprises.

                You correctly noticed Did not get, because they don’t give, but how I would like to receive!
                “We are talking about a new program providing for a loan of about $ 15 billion. Although discussions are ongoing on this issue. In autumn, we wait for the arrival of a mission that will solve everything. Now we are finalizing issues that are important for the IMF, and I believe that in the autumn we should sign long awaited agreement". In turn, ex-Minister of Economics Bogdan Danilishin believes: “At the moment, there are no extraordinary reasons for an absolute confrontation, Ukraine can count on resuming full cooperation with the IMF by the end of 2013. Money will be available already following the results of the November visit of the IMF mission. ”

                Here they are, rivers of milk and jelly banks!
                This is a sweet word for free! ...
                1. Akim
                  -1
                  21 August 2013 11: 08
                  Quote: ATATA
                  You correctly noticed NOT RECEIVED, because they do not give, but how I would like to receive!

                  Did I say that without him is better. I would like to receive it, but there is a question - the price of gas for the population should rise in price. The government does not agree with this.
              3. +3
                21 August 2013 11: 03
                Quote: Akim
                Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF for three years

                No, takes nothing wink On January 24, a Ukrainian delegation led by the new Finance Minister Valery Khoroshkovsky went to Washington for talks with the leadership of the International Monetary Fund. The head of the Ukrainian government, Mykola Azarov, said the following about this: "Cooperation with the IMF is the cheapest money on the market. We still have to pay off the loan that our predecessors took in 2008-2009 ...". According to Azarov, now the discussion with the IMF continues: "Finally, common sense began to wake up among the IMF. The Ukrainian government has prepared for the IMF a whole package of proposals that will show the balance of our approach." In 2011, Ukraine did not receive a single tranche of the fund's loan.
                ButUkraine was sent ON ***** in plain text hi

                July 01, 2013 - According to the Minister of Finance Yuriy Kolobov, Ukraine may receive the next tranche of the IMF loan by the end of 2013.
                But then you caved in under the EU and Washington had mercy lol

                Feb 13 2012 - The International Monetary Fund may not give Ukraine a loan if it does not adhere to democratic principles,.
                Release Tymokh, sign it with the EU, and then they will give a denyuzhku wink
              4. +3
                21 August 2013 11: 31
                Quote: Akim
                For three years Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF. Generally from no one.

                I would like to but do not give, or doubt the solvency of Ukraine, or in some cases demanding from it impracticable, enslaving conditions.
  10. +8
    21 August 2013 08: 01
    Official Kiev preferred this “European integration” to a close military and economic alliance with Russia. And the price of gas, and the ban on sweets are connected only with this. Russia will only allow wealthy friendly Ukraine, but not the bridgehead of Euro-Atlanticists. When making political decisions, you need to calculate the risks. I recall that Tigipko dismissed Glazyev’s words that the border with Russia would close for Ukraine along with the opening of the FTA with the EU. So the door was closed. The screech and howl rose immediately from all sides. Nothing - nothing. Scratch turnips, gentlemen, euro-integrators. Of course, I feel sorry for people and not all.
    1. Akim
      -16
      21 August 2013 08: 09
      Quote: makst83
      Russia will allow only friendly Ukraine to grow rich,

      Do not be offended, but Belarus didn’t get the kissel shores, Kazakhstan too. Now the respondents will pull up from there - they will confirm.
      1. +9
        21 August 2013 08: 51
        Quote: Akim
        Do not be offended, but Belarus didn’t get the kissel shores, Kazakhstan too. Now the respondents will pull up from there - they will confirm.
        Do not be offended by you either, but I know which side Ukraine chooses - the CU or the EU, in a year you will be moaning loudly about the wrong choice and missed opportunities. It’s high time to understand that, in any development of events, Ukraine will have to give up part of its economic independence ... But in one case (CU) this will be done according to a scheme already developed over the centuries and with developed ties, and in the other (EU) everything needs to be worked out anew and how it will turn out is not clear.
        And the last, at the expense of "jelly shores". This is the belief of the Ukrainians that tomorrow "we will enter somewhere ... and the day after tomorrow we will live like gentlemen ..." I have always been puzzled. Where did you get this from? "Kiseynye banks" near the rivers do not appear on their own, they need to be "rebuilt", but for this you need to work and work again ...
        1. Akim
          -10
          21 August 2013 09: 16
          Quote: svp67
          Where did you get this from? "Kiseynye banks" near the rivers do not appear on their own, they need to be "rebuilt", but for this you need to work and work again ...

          And where did the Belarusians come from? What does Ukraine have to do with it. The promise to my great-grandfather to live under socialism came true only for my parents, and they represented a small percentage of society.
          Economically, I - was for the TS, but the Kremlin included the political component. And that made me look away. So many.
          1. +9
            21 August 2013 09: 33
            Quote: Akim
            I was for the TS, but the Kremlin included the political component.

            But the EU does not require anything politically from you? There are only one requirements, and by the way, do not forget to free Timokha, not a good thief in prison wink
            The independence of Ukraine is a myth! Ukraine is a completely dependent state, but you do not understand this hi
            1. Akim
              -6
              21 August 2013 09: 54
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              m, there are only one requirements, and by the way, do not forget to free Timokha,

              As a layman, I’m on the side. Although I am also dissatisfied with this.
          2. +4
            21 August 2013 09: 47
            Quote: Akim
            Economically, I - was for the TS, but the Kremlin included the political component. And that made me look away. So many.
            You can't be cute ... Now we have shown what will happen when Ukraine joins the EU - that is, it will lose its "favorable" access to the CU markets. I think that those "who need it" will now calculate the "debit with credit" and further work will go on ... The current "industrialists" are quite influential people in any government. Although, alas, there are also enough "politicians" with "foolishness in their heads" ...
            1. Akim
              -11
              21 August 2013 09: 59
              Quote: svp67
              Now they have shown what will happen when Ukraine moves to the EU

              Express your thoughts correctly. I understand that information is now being presented to Russia. Only a free trade area with the EU does not include its direct entry. I'm talking about politics and would not say.
              1. +6
                21 August 2013 10: 18
                Quote: Akim
                I'm talking about politics and would not say.

                It's about the economy, goods from the EU will pour in to you, practically without duties, and we do not need it. Your commerce will be happy, probably wink
              2. +7
                21 August 2013 10: 33
                In-in, and do not join the EU and lose the vehicle. Very cleverly done. BRAVO, "broad Ukrainians" :(.
                1. Akim
                  -1
                  21 August 2013 10: 40
                  Quote: alicante11
                  . Very cleverly done.

                  I don’t even want to answer. This is not chess, where everything is white and black.
                  1. +4
                    21 August 2013 11: 28
                    Quote: Akim
                    This is not chess, where everything is white and black.

                    Yes, everything is easier here, either to get involved in the EU or go to the CU, there is a difference though wink
                    1. Akim
                      -2
                      21 August 2013 12: 07
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      there is a difference true

                      Don't play with the words "scout-spy".
                      1. +4
                        21 August 2013 12: 56
                        Quote: Akim

                        Don't play with the words "scout-spy".

                        So you, that not koment is a masterpiece, who would say wink
                  2. 0
                    21 August 2013 11: 50
                    They answered the same, so it’s not reluctant, but nothing.
                    1. Corneli
                      -2
                      21 August 2013 21: 04
                      Quote: alicante11
                      They answered, it means not wanting, but nothing

                      Maybe a person just realized that the argument is meaningless? All the same, the debaters do not hear him, each with his own opinion remains.
        2. +6
          21 August 2013 09: 24
          How it will turn out with the EU is already clear - Ukraine even has to change the railway track to a European width, I'm not talking about the fact that the orders of Brussels will be binding on Ukraine, moreover, without any discussion, in this case there will be only zilch! laughing
      2. Wild_grey_wolf
        +7
        21 August 2013 09: 16
        Akim - everything is normal in Kazakhstan
        1. +5
          21 August 2013 09: 45
          Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
          Akim - everything is normal in Kazakhstan

          Recently I watched on TV about Nazarbayev and how he transferred the capital to Astana, and how he can keep the leadership in his hands, Yanukovych would not have to learn from him in running an independent country and not clap his lips like a fish.
      3. +8
        21 August 2013 09: 19
        Quote: Akim

        Do not be offended, but Belarus didn’t get the kissel shores, Kazakhstan too.

        Listen Kim, how old are you? I don’t understand, do you really believe that when you join the EU, prosperity will come in a month, this is nonsense !!! In Belarus and Kazakhstan, an article was laid out with all the pros and cons, so there were more pluses and as far as I remember, they were in that article. This is not about Belarus, which buys gas at domestic prices and not about commerce that drive their goods in Russia no limits. It is about your country, whose economy immediately began to feel the restrictions of Russia. And if it is closed at all and at the same time open to the EU, three months and you have an ambition! Sit and consider not biased without politics hi
        1. Akim
          -5
          21 August 2013 09: 42
          I did not campaign for the ST zone with the EU, but I didn’t poison the neighbors with economic sanctions
          1. +1
            21 August 2013 10: 28
            Quote: Akim
            I did not campaign for the ST zone with the EU, but I didn’t poison the neighbors with economic sanctions

            cool Lukoshenko burns, on the border of Russia and Belarus there are no customs posts wassat What kind of duties does it scratch, if everything is clear on additional oil deliveries. A video on the average person, it’s not clear what they’re talking about, the main thing is a few torn words and that’s all, what a bad Russia laughing
            July 1, 2011 began a new stage in the formation of the Common Economic Space of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. All customs officers left the Russian-Kazakh and Russian-Belarusian sections of the border. The head of the Federal Customs Service of Russia Andrei Belyaninov told the newspaper what is changing and what advantages citizens of the three countries receive.
            http://www.rg.ru/2011/07/07/tamojnya.html
          2. +1
            21 August 2013 10: 29
            [quote = Akim] I did not campaign for the ST zone with the EU, but I didn’t poison the neighbors with economic sanctions
            Lukashenko’s words are taken out of context, but even in this docked video link it’s clear that he’s behind the speedy deepening of integration.
            Quote from the video.
            "This process is being delayed (in the sense of deepening integration), in fact, we were deceived .. "
            1. Akim
              0
              21 August 2013 14: 04
              Quote: ATATA
              Lukashenko’s words are taken out of context, but even in this docked video link it’s clear that he’s behind the speedy deepening of integration.

              Good. Is there a complete video to believe?
          3. +2
            21 August 2013 11: 19
            Akim UA Today, 09:42 ↑ New

            I did not campaign for the ST zone with the EU, but I didn’t poison the neighbors with economic sanctions
            And what do you think Russia should do. I think this is just the "first call", a warning (reminder) that after the "third call" it will start. And what will start is the choice (no doubt) for Ukraine. By the way, Lukashenka’s phrase was taken out of context). The essence of the whole speech boiled down to even closer cooperation within the CU.
            1. 0
              21 August 2013 12: 05
              Quote: ksan
              . The essence of the whole speech was reduced to even closer cooperation within the framework of the CU.

              That's right, Lukashenka "pushes" Russia fellow (!!!) to closer cooperation and promotion within the framework of the CU, because I am sure of the mutually beneficial nature of such cooperation and its prospects!
      4. +5
        21 August 2013 09: 59
        Quote: Akim
        Do not be offended, but Belarus didn’t get the kissel shores, Kazakhstan too. Now the respondents will pull up from there - they will confirm.

        Do you all dream of rivers of milk and jelly banks?
        But just an open market for vehicles for the sale of Ukrainian goods, do not you like?
        It seems that the 90s ended 13 years ago. When will you grow up ?!
        Now milk rivers flow in Bulgaria, now they have fun.
        1. Akim
          -3
          21 August 2013 10: 09
          Quote: ATATA
          But just an open market for vehicles for the sale of Ukrainian goods, do not you like?

          And that in Russia only goods from participating countries go?
          1. +5
            21 August 2013 10: 53
            Quote: Akim
            And that in Russia only goods from participating countries go?

            No, but the participating countries have incentives, including for hydrocarbons.
          2. +7
            21 August 2013 11: 05
            Quote: Akim
            And that in Russia only goods from participating countries go?

            There are no customs and duties, for the rest there.
            1. Akim
              -2
              21 August 2013 11: 39
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              There are no customs and duties, for the rest there

              You did not understand. Those. Russia trades with Europe without demanding anything from it, besides taxes.
              1. +3
                21 August 2013 12: 11
                Quote: Akim
                You did not understand. Those. Russia trades with Europe without demanding anything from it, besides taxes.

                You didn’t understand this, after signing, you will pay taxes like the EU and nothing but taxes. The only thing is that Russia will not let cheap duty-free goods from the EU that rush to Ukraine. Well, of course, there will be duties on your goods, as for other EU countries. That's the whole market. The results of that, Ukrainian goods will not be competitive due to their high cost, look for markets in the EU, and there ***** well, full belay
                1. Akim
                  -2
                  21 August 2013 12: 23
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  after signing, you will pay taxes like the EU

                  Now what? Same. And quotas as well.
                  1. +4
                    21 August 2013 12: 58
                    Quote: Akim
                    Same. And quotas as well.

                    Far from the same thing. Your product will simply get a stake and that’s all, just goods from the EU are better and will take them, not yours.
                    1. Akim
                      -2
                      21 August 2013 13: 28
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      just goods from the EU are better and will take them, not yours.

                      It is understandable. Just who has money for Boomer, he will take it anyway. A cat can only buy ZAZ if he does not want a Russian car.
                      1. 0
                        22 August 2013 06: 14
                        Quote: Akim
                        Just who has money for boomer

                        No, not boomer, sweets and the like wink
      5. +9
        21 August 2013 10: 48
        From Kazakhstan. I confirm. However, I do not presume to speculate on what Ukraine will receive or not get from the CU.
        1. +4
          21 August 2013 12: 10
          I, too, will not take up arguments for the pros and cons for Ukraine, I’ll just give Kazakhstan as an example. I have already laid it out here, I apologize for the repost.
          Compared to the 2009 year, export of processed goods to the countries of the Customs Union increased almost 2,5 times and amounted to 4 billion US dollars. The dynamics of supplies has been growing steadily. Growth for 2012 year - 17%.

          At the same time, in 2012, the total export of Kazakhstan to the CU countries decreased by 3,7% and amounted to 6,8 billion US dollars. The decrease was due to a decrease in the supply of raw materials - iron ores and concentrates.

          One of the positive aspects of the 2012 of the year is a turning point in the framework of the CU, when in terms of specific gravity the export of processed goods (59%) exceeded the indicators of raw materials export (41%).

          in billions of US dollars 2009 2010 2011 2012 Growth for 2012 year

          Total export to TS 3,6 5,6 7,1 6,8 -3,7%

          Processed 1,6 2,7 3,4 4,0 16,9%

          Raw 2,0 2,9 3,7 2,8 -23,2%

          For the following products, the main market is TS (comparison with 2009):

          • 99% of bearings are sent to the vehicle, with an increase in volumes by 3 times (from 37 to 112 million US dollars);

          • 77% of batteries, with an increase of 2,5 times (from 12 to 30,8 million US dollars);

          • 66% of finished or canned meat products that began to be exported in 2011 and today have reached 3,6 million US dollars;

          • 62% of sugar confectionery, with an increase of almost 7 times (from 2,3 to 15,6 million US dollars);

          • 59% carbides, with an increase of 2 times (from 5,5 to 11 million US dollars);

          • 55% phosphinates, with an increase of 48% (from 29 to 42 million US dollars).

          Source: ZAKON.KZ Information Service
          1. +2
            21 August 2013 13: 16
            And what is the use of the fact that someone there sold bearings on 112 lyamov? request
            1. +4
              21 August 2013 14: 02
              Well, Zymran, these bearings are produced in Kazakhstan, these are jobs, salaries. The confectionery factory "RAKHAT" has increased the volume of production 10 !!! times, too, is it no use? Not a single watermelon that is not in demand will remain in the field this year, all Russian businessmen are buying straight from the field, for us, the city people, of course, prices are bad even in the high season, but the peasants are in the black. Next year they will plant more. This year they did not expect such a demand.
              Despite the record crop, the cost of watermelons and melons is only growing. In places of spontaneous melon selling, buyers appear infrequently. The main summer dessert was not affordable for southerners. Now watermelons and melons are very high prices, customers complain.

              Ergali Nurmakhanov, buyer: "Last year the prices were not the same. But there is no way out, we buy all the same."

              The sellers themselves recognize the high cost of their goods. But, according to traders, there are serious reasons for this.

              Elmira Kultayeva, seller: "Every day we buy watermelons at the wholesale market along Zhibek Zholy Avenue. Melons at 60 tenge, watermelons at 35 tenge. We add only 5 tenge each. After all, dealers say to us: if you want - take it, you don't want it - don't take it, there will be others. But we still have taxi costs. "

              In the 2012-m farmers of the south received a record crop of melons. This year, farmers expect no less generous gifts from nature. However, despite this, regulating the prices for melons appeared to be beyond the reach of even the staff of the agricultural department. According to experts, the demand is to blame. It was he who generated such prices in the market. Moreover, the management believes that the higher the price, the better for the farmers.

              Bolatbek Tastanov, head of the city department of architecture and construction: "Everything depends on demand. If it increases, prices will rise. If melons are expensive, then the work of farmers is justified."

              Thus, Shymkent residents should not wait for a drop in prices for watermelons and melons. Only if the demand for melons decreases, then watermelons and melons will become more affordable.
              A number of measures are being taken in the region to increase sown area. So, in the 2013 year in the SKO, 95 ha of greenhouses were already built, and their total area was 665 ha. The drip irrigation method was introduced on 4 thousand ha, and the total area exceeded 24 thousand ha. This contribution of dehkans employed in greenhouses has contributed a lot to high yields in the south of the country.

              In addition, 6 reservoirs, 599 km of canals, 122 waste facilities and 72 vertical drainage wells are being reconstructed to increase sowing in the South Kazakhstan region. This year, sowing in the South Kazakhstan region has already increased by 30 thousand ha and amounted to 772 thousand ha. Farmers expect that the harvest of fruits and melons this year will amount to 2 million tons, which is 250 thousand tons more than the forecasted crop.

              Share ...
              1. Akim
                +3
                21 August 2013 14: 17
                Quote: Andrey KZ
                . Next year they will plant more. This year they did not expect that such demand would be.

                By the way about watermelons. In the Kherson region, Ukrainian entrepreneurs pay 30-40 kopecks per kilogram, the Poles are driven to buy 80 kopecks -1 hryvnia. A big harvest is a plus for me (the consumer). The peasant is not very.
                1. +2
                  26 August 2013 16: 41
                  And my five cents about watermelons. In Astana, there are few of them now, and those that are go at 60 tenge per kilogram. When asked why it is so expensive, and even not enough, sellers say that everything goes to Russia.
              2. 0
                21 August 2013 14: 19
                OK. What percentage of the population of Kazakhstan works at the bearing plant and the Rakhat factory? =)) I think not great. But absolutely all Kazakhstanis faced the rise in prices for goods and services.
                The main condition for any undertaking: not to do worse than before. But just this principle in the TS is violated.
                1. +7
                  21 August 2013 14: 56
                  Quote: Zymran
                  But with the rise in prices for goods and services, absolutely all Kazakhstanis faced.
                  I agree, salaries do not keep pace with prices. But you understand that the market is 17mln. People, it is very small for production growth. If you do not increase the sales market, how to increase production? If our car assembly plants BIPEK-AUTO didn’t increase duties on importing ASIA-AUTO would have closed for a long time, and so their lineup for 2 months in advance. I am still optimistic about the future of the vehicle, we are only at the beginning of the way.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    23 August 2013 10: 43
                    Andrew, my respect. Absolutely sober balanced look. I will add that in addition to Beepac and Asia-Auto, a lot of car factories are already appearing in KZ. And the pace of assembly (and at the same time the percentage of localization) is growing at a good pace.
                    And "Allur-Auto" in general promises to take a large share (by our standards) in the Russian market with its cars by 2020.
                    Kostanays are also actively developing the automotive industry. Before our eyes, in Kazakhstan, a branch of industry has been created and is growing stronger that we have never had.
                    In the troops (that MO, that the Ministry of Internal Affairs, that the Ministry of Emergencies) go almost only Kazakhstani cars, both cars, trucks, and special vehicles.
                    In addition, due to more favorable conditions for doing business in Kazakhstan than in Russia, there is a constant process of re-registration of Russian companies in KZ, this is beneficial for us - here there are jobs, taxes are paid here.
                    Etc. etc.
  11. Buffallobill
    +7
    21 August 2013 08: 07
    Roshen - normal quality?
    Ahaha, their candy soaps with palm fat, fuu
    Russian sweets, for example Krupskaya, do not compare
    1. +3
      21 August 2013 08: 26
      Quote: BuffalloBill
      Ahaha, their candy soaps with palm fat, fuu

      Where is he not at all now?
    2. 0
      21 August 2013 08: 53
      Quote: BuffalloBill
      Roshen - normal quality?
      in stock "?" I agree. I know that relatives in Ukraine are trying not to buy the products of this factory, as there are a lot of "ersatz products ..."
      1. +3
        21 August 2013 09: 05
        And somehow I wanted to take profiteroles for tea. I read the composition and put it back - nothing natural. It’s better to cook pancakes.
  12. +6
    21 August 2013 08: 13
    Russia is silent about customs, but the word was spoken in Kiev, and was not heard! Complaining to the WTO court is welcome. Onishchenko and Germany "put on the right". It is time to understand that in politics we have no "everybody" left. So, a little is still found in the Duma.
    On one ukroforum I read a statement of Wasserman's statement on another occasion, but interesting in meaning. "If a calf has two teats at once, then it cannot be ruled out that there will be two other objects that are similar in shape."
    1. +2
      21 August 2013 11: 55
      And you can find out why Wasserman wrote this? Preferably with a reference. Wasserman is the head. So subtly and gracefully articulate ... hi
  13. +7
    21 August 2013 08: 23
    worthless. The training took place this way from the moment Ukraine signs an agreement with the EU. We also need to protect our markets from re-export from the EU. By the way, customs also works with all EU countries, so Ukraine just needs to be prepared. Nobody is going to persuade Ukraine to join the Customs Union, they made a choice, and they will like other European countries trade with Russia on exactly the same conditions.
  14. +3
    21 August 2013 08: 32
    There will be no Ukrainian sweets? Pichalbeda crying
    Again you will have to eat "Red October" laughing

    By the way, who forgot - 22 years ago, the State Emergency Committee failed and "the process began" (c) crying
    1. +2
      21 August 2013 09: 10
      Quote: Landwarrior
      By the way, who forgot - 22 years ago, the State Emergency Committee failed and "the process began" (c)

      What's this? Happy holiday or what?
      1. +1
        21 August 2013 09: 26
        Quote: antiaircrafter
        What's this? Happy holiday or what?


        Not at all. Simply. To remember.
    2. +3
      21 August 2013 09: 20
      Quote: Landwarrior
      Again you will have to eat "Red October

      Yes, we will choke to nausea wassat
      1. +7
        21 August 2013 09: 30
        You can also choke and suffer with the products of the Samara "Russia" laughing
        1. +1
          21 August 2013 10: 54
          Quote: Andrey57
          You can also choke and suffer with the products of the Samara "Russia"

          I also wanted to write about her, but with the word "Eat" the word "Russia" sounds somehow ambiguous wassat
  15. Su-9
    -1
    21 August 2013 08: 56
    I have all this mess causes double thoughts. First of all, I see that again between Russia and Ukraine they drive a wedge. In this particular case, Onishchenko initiated - and he does it himself because he cares so much about the health of Russians, or at the direction of - and on whose behalf - here we can already have many versions. In what is worse than Mexican or Brazilian, I doubt it. Russia needs to decide - it needs to be in union with Ukraine (and potentially wants to unite) - or it is necessary to push Ukraine in euros (hoping that they will not take it there). If you need to be in an alliance, you need to tie up the markets as much as possible so that the same Poroshenko does not know where else to sell his sweets, and so that Akhmetov (a much more influential politician) sells metal not to China and America, but to us. Then - there will be a union, and everything else. And there will be Ukraine like Canada, in the wake of the policy of a larger neighbor, with a military alliance, the same armament and a future open market (I don’t think of the current TS if it were open, then it would be in turn - from the same Turks for example).
    Something like this.
    Once again, it’s a pity that there is again a small Wed ... h between the brothers.
    1. +3
      21 August 2013 09: 34
      Speaking of the lineup in the TS - New Zealand is negotiating accession to the TS bully
      1. 0
        21 August 2013 21: 01
        Quote: Andrey57
        Speaking of the lineup in the TS - New Zealand is negotiating accession to the TS bully
        This is bullshit, if Nauru (a state on the coral island of the same name in the western Pacific Ocean with an area of ​​21 km². Population - 9 322 people. Nauru is the smallest independent republic in the world, the smallest island state, the smallest state of Oceania, the smallest state outside Europe and the only republic in the world without an official capital.) Then some of our students even knew where it is located ... wink
    2. +4
      21 August 2013 09: 43
      Quote: Su-9
      Russia needs to decide - it needs to be in union with Ukraine


      Not Russia needs to decide whether to be with Ukraine or not, but Ukraine needs to do this! Geyrop, Ukraine is needed as a buffer zone, we need you as a good friend and neighbor.

      Believe me, there is something to compare. I lived in Ukraine for 17 years in Ivano-Frankivsk, and I have something to compare.

      The Ukrainian government is chasing two birds with one stone and will not catch a single one. Will remain at the trough!
    3. +1
      21 August 2013 10: 30
      Quote: Su-9
      Russia needs to decide - it needs to be an alliance with Ukraine

      This Russia needs to be determined ????? Are you kidding me now? Maybe this is Ukraine at the crossroads and thinks where to rush.
      1. Su-9
        +1
        21 August 2013 16: 13
        I do not live in Ukraine, so it’s not for me to determine where Ukraine should go.
        According to your comments, I see that you understand the issue and, in your opinion, there are excellent prerequisites for Ukrainians for the TS. It is perfectly.
        But what I see in the media — I don’t like it — for the last 10 years, every couple of months, Ukrainians have been blocked off, limited, technical cooperation has not been established since Ukraine wants to join NATO (and at the same time parallel technologies are purchased in Europe) and etc.
        If the position is that we are one people, then it is not necessary to relate to the Ukrainians, but at least since official Moscow refers to friends from the Caucasus (there’s an article here today about Ingush). In this, I believe, is the choice of Russia.
        And the fact that Ukraine needs to choose - yes, but their choice is secondary - the stronger side always chooses.
  16. +3
    21 August 2013 09: 04
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Ukraine has long been living on external loans, that is, it exists "on debt".

    Stop giving Daw a moan. EVERYTHING they have X-A-P-A-Sh-O !! Squeeze the Crimea, and there, at least let them do it with themselves. Even if vinegar is etched, even if in spite of all, your ears are frostbite ...
  17. Inspector
    +2
    21 August 2013 09: 05
    But what about "lard in chocolate"? It's a drug)))))
  18. 0
    21 August 2013 09: 11
    Between Moscow and Kiev there is a delimitation of the market of interests.
    Friendship is friendship, and tobacco and tyutyun should be in different pouches.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. IGS
    +12
    21 August 2013 09: 31
    "So this is where the figure voiced by Putin came from, 1,5 percent. This is not what Ukraine will get ... but what will NOT LOSE." laughing
    But, in general, gentlemen, Ukrainians stop whining and blaming Russia for everything, today it’s a date about the State Emergency Committee, so remember how you yelled that Ukraine feeds Russia, and you’re tired of it, remember how you called us riddlers, and now you’ll heal like pans ... And they became independent, and Russia took over all the debts of the USSR, and YOURS too, and you got the Crimea, although you had nothing to do with it. And our pensioners paid and your debts. And now you howl? Looking for the guilty? Look in the mirror. Got it ... We owe you nothing. You can minus, but what was not erased.
    1. 0
      21 August 2013 10: 37
      True, Ukrainians are like children, the fir trees are burning. That "I am already big, I want an equal attitude", and just a high howl, "Help, offend!" laughing

      Nobody was forcibly expelled from the Union, they wanted to be "independent" themselves. Well, if they wanted it, they got it, no one forced it. Duc and now what?
      Funny ... to tears
  21. 0
    21 August 2013 09: 39
    Quote: IGS
    Got it ... We owe you nothing.

    Right! Let them go wherever they want. Without Crimea.
    Quote: IGS
    I got Crimea, although you had nothing to do with it
    -exactly!
    1. IGS
      +1
      21 August 2013 10: 07
      Thank you for understanding. I'm just wondering ... who minus me, and what is wrong with me? laughing 22 years have passed, time has put everything in place. Someone, obviously, really wants to forget this.
  22. -1
    21 August 2013 09: 45
    It was a visual experiment that will happen when Ukraine signs an agreement with the EU. It is clearly shown that re-export of European goods across the border from Ukraine will not take and the import of duty-free goods from Ukraine is one thing, and the European is different, they again wanted to sit in two chairs. Yacht posi. Hkhdet. Sign the agreement yourself limit themselves because Russia will abolish benefits
    1. Akim
      -1
      21 August 2013 10: 01
      Quote: morpogr
      It was a visual experiment that will happen when Ukraine signs an agreement with the EU. It is clearly shown that re-export of European goods across the border from Ukraine will not work

      I agree, but with one retreat. It should not be like 22 June 41 year. And this time it turned out that way.
      1. IGS
        +3
        21 August 2013 10: 13
        You were warned, and oh, both in advance and at the highest level! Or did you have to be warned in 5 years (or better for 100)? So that the authorities were already different, and what would you have time to wag ...
        1. Akim
          -2
          21 August 2013 10: 33
          Quote: IGS
          You were warned, and oh, both in advance and at the highest level!

          Pre-warn an official document.
          1. +1
            21 August 2013 10: 55
            Quote: Akim
            Pre-warn an official document.

            Well, the EU has already warned you there with a 900-page document.
            Begin while changing the railway tracks. A lot of work, one can say a lot.
            1. 0
              21 August 2013 11: 30
              Quote: ATATA
              Begin while changing the railway tracks. A lot of work, one can say a lot.

              Hahhahaha, and they will also give a loan for this, there are no more relevant cases in Ukraine wassat
            2. 0
              21 August 2013 12: 00
              Quote: ATATA
              Begin while changing the railway tracks.

              They will change the way in general all the trains on the border will stand up, because you have to rearrange the wheelsets or whatever it is called.
          2. +1
            21 August 2013 11: 09
            Quote: Akim

            Pre-warn an official document.

            There are enough words of official Russian officials, you’re sitting, you’re not inventing what. There will be a document, the signature is not enough, the seal is not the same. All suppressed before the fact, go to the EU hi
          3. IGS
            0
            21 August 2013 11: 54
            About what? What is happening now at the border is not a ban on imports, but an increase in control. The management of Ukrainian enterprises was notified of claims to the products. All legal norms have been fulfilled, which is why you are trying to come to an agreement "brotherly" through the prime minister, knowing full well that the European Union will not help you. It's time to realize that they began to treat you according to the rules that you yourself have chosen and choose, so you it's better to warn yourself about the consequences of your actions, but it's easier to turn on your head.
            1. Akim
              +1
              21 August 2013 12: 09
              Quote: IGS
              What is happening at the border now is not a ban on imports, but a tightening of control

              Patrol officers also may not delay. But you will go through the city for a long time. So it is here.
      2. 0
        21 August 2013 10: 51
        Quote: Akim
        I agree, but with one retreat. It should not be like 22 June 41 year. And this time it turned out that way.


        I will join the commentIGS. Ukraine has repeatedly made "promises", including at the highest level, that the decision on European integration will entail retaliatory actions of the Russian Federation. And now the hour "H" has come, and groans and lamentations rushed.
        Get used to the tough actions of your partners, in the event of joining the European Union (which I sooo doubt, unless only in order to "fasten" Ukraine to NATO) there will not be "pounding" with you either (there are examples of other EU members that are not particularly comforting for you).
      3. 0
        21 August 2013 11: 07
        Quote: Akim
        . It should not be like June 22, 41. And this time it turned out that way.

        And they didn’t warn you ??? So it will be exactly the day after signing.
  23. +8
    21 August 2013 09: 55
    According to the Ukrainian side, some extremist forces are guilty of creating the conflict, which will stop at nothing to "embroil the two fraternal countries."


    It’s interesting how to join the EU, not the brothers, but how they pressed it at the customs, they immediately shut up the brothers. Damn, how tired of this pan-Slavic prostitution.
  24. 0
    21 August 2013 10: 12
    Eat fish and sit on a stool here does not work. Hard choice
  25. +1
    21 August 2013 10: 38
    Quote: Akim
    And so it goes. Only not to Europe, but to the Middle East and Asia. But you are a smart person and you understand that it will not be possible to reorient markets quickly.

    Road going by walking.
    But is the government choosing that road for Ukrainians?
    And how the Ukrainian economy was going to turn the "directional vector" towards the Eurozone, because this is due to the radical breaking "through the knee" of all economic and financial spheres.
    1. Akim
      -1
      21 August 2013 10: 58
      Quote: Corsair
      in the direction of the Eurozone, because this is due to the radical breaking "through the knee" of all economic and financial spheres.

      It depends on what. In general, diversification of the economy is needed. Now for comparison, most of the imports do not go to Russia, but in 2004 - it was 80% of the Russian market.
      1. +1
        21 August 2013 11: 14
        Quote: Akim
        Now for comparison, most of the imports do not go to Russia, but to 2004 - this was 80% to the Russian market.


        How will the issue be solved with enterprises in Ukraine belonging to Russian business and naturally oriented mainly to the Russian market and the vehicle?
        The share of these enterprises in the Ukrainian economy is not small ...
      2. +2
        21 August 2013 11: 20
        Now for comparison, most of the import is not going to Russia

        It's a lie.
        1. general
          -5
          21 August 2013 18: 51
          Lies are you and your profile under the Ukrainian flag wink
      3. A spacer
        +1
        21 August 2013 19: 02
        Quote: Akim
        Now for comparison, most of the imports do not go to Russia, but to 2004 - this was 80% to the Russian market.

        Well, right, you can’t be so childishly mistaken:
        import - from lat. importo - import, how can import "go away"?
        1. Akim
          +2
          21 August 2013 19: 16
          Quote: Simpleton
          Well, right, you can’t be so childishly mistaken:


          We ask forgiveness. In the morning there was such an attack on my comments - I barely managed to fight back. Eyes were washed up.
          1. A spacer
            0
            21 August 2013 19: 40
            Quote: Akim
            Eyes are washed away

            Emotions, emotions - and no constructive ... (do not accept in your address, please).
          2. -2
            22 August 2013 02: 57
            Quote: Akim
            In the morning there was such an attack on my comments - I barely managed to fight back. Eyes were washed up.
            I’m afraid that they have been blotted out for a long time.
            1. Akim
              +1
              22 August 2013 08: 14
              Quote: ATATA
              I’m afraid that they have been washed out for a long time.

              If my opinion does not coincide with the one you want to hear, this does not mean that I am an albino.
  26. 0
    21 August 2013 10: 42
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Delicate Ukrainian bacon trash well behind the ears of Russians. (All my guests Muscovites immediately run to "Privoz" for tender bacon, which melts in your mouth and smoked meats.

    How? Did the oaths eat everything again?
  27. 0
    21 August 2013 11: 06
    Yes, not a single fat ........
  28. +7
    21 August 2013 11: 17
    During the general counterattack of the Red Army from the end of December 1942, the liberation of Ukraine from the Nazi invaders began. The first to enter the land of Ukraine were the troops of the 1st Guards Army under the command of General V. Kuznetsov, who on December 18, 1942 drove the invaders out of the village of Pivnivka, Melovsky District, in the Luhansk region.


    During the liberation of Ukraine, the Red Army fired and bombed Ukrainian cities and villages. Occupied, but in which there were many inhabitants. Residents of Ukraine. Some of which, of course, died in the process of liberation of Ukraine.

    But no one will turn their tongues (except for the Goebels propaganda) to say that the Red Army, the USSR, Russia fought against Ukraine.

    So it is now. This war is not against Ukraine, not against Ukrainians, although naturally we, ordinary citizens of Ukraine, will suffer very much as a result of this war. This is a war against the occupiers, against those who are in their service, against the modern analogue of the Hauptmanns and policemen, against those who destroy the Ukrainian people, Ukrainian industry, against those who use the resources (human, material, financial) of Ukraine against the Ukrainians themselves and against Russia.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  29. +5
    21 August 2013 11: 25
    Damn, HOW YOU ALREADY GOT THESE DISASSEMBLIES ... Need it hard to understand, the propaganda of the West of their proteges has borne fruit for 20 years ... A generation has grown up already believing that the Russians are Finno-Finno-Mongol-Tatars, and that the Russians have been tyrannizing them for three hundred years, and then there is the carrot in the form of the EU and European integration. It's too late for them to explain that everything was different. Onizh firmly believe that in the Second World War the United States was whitewashed, and the Russians simply showered the Germans with "meat", and they (genetical Europeans) were used in that war as the very "meat" ... So they are looking for a reason to blame everything on the Russians and in everything blame Russia. Look how they, foaming at the mouth, prove that Malyshev, Antonov is purely UKRAINIAN ... point-blank without seeing that this is all the USSR, this is COMMON. It’s useless to persuade them, and they understood it at the top and did it clearly, well, if they don’t understand after that ... then God be with them. Although it is a pity, the crest himself and relatives in Ukraine are immeasurable ...
    1. +1
      21 August 2013 11: 36
      well, if they don’t even understand after that ...

      They don’t understand. In the evening, flipping through UkroTV. Through the channel about the war of Russia against Ukraine. About how Russia is deceitful, unfair, hypocritical, vicious, how it wants to destroy a good, wonderful Ukraine and the same Ukrainians.

      ALL EVENING. ON ALL INFORMATION CHANNELS AND TRANSMISSIONS.

      People were washed their heads so much that even many Russians, in the sense of GREAT RIGHTS, who, by the will of fate, found themselves in Ukraine, often already in adulthood, began to consider Russia as such: vicious, hypocritical, seeking to slander and destroy the good Ukraine and them together.
      1. +2
        21 August 2013 12: 15
        Now, that’s the whole trouble. as one famous comrade said: if a person is told every day that he is a pig, then after five years he grunts. And here for 20 years there has been propaganda, so it is not surprising that they believe in it.
      2. general
        +1
        21 August 2013 18: 40
        In the evening, leafing through RosTV. Through the channel about the war of Russia against Ukraine. About how Ukraine is deceitful, unfair, hypocritical, vicious, how it wants to destroy a good, wonderful Russia and betray the same Russians.

        ALL EVENING. ON ALL INFORMATION CHANNELS AND TRANSMISSIONS.

        People were washed their heads so much that even many Ukrainians, in the sense of SLAVES, who, by the will of fate, found themselves in Russia, often already in adulthood, began to consider Ukraine as such: vicious, hypocritical, seeking to slander and destroy good Russia and them together.
        1. -2
          22 August 2013 17: 35
          Past the box office ... not Ukraine with its potential to compete with Russia; the majority of the population do not care what is being done in Ukraine, and young people (with our pro-American education) do not know where it is or what it is.
    2. +1
      21 August 2013 14: 15
      Quote: Sochi
      They needed to be difficult to understand, the propaganda of their supporters from the west for 20let paid off ... The generation has grown up that already believes that the Russians are Finno-Mongol-Tatars, and that the Russians have tyrannized them for three hundred years, and then there’s a carrot in the form of the EU and European integration


      You are wrong in Ukraine enough healthy forces to turn the situation around, but the Ukrainian mentality has a tradition of "sitting to the extreme" and only then ...
      1. 0
        22 August 2013 17: 39
        Well, about the mentality inappropriately - I myself am a crest ... Most find it easier to adapt to the new government, less hemorrhoids and safer. But if it goes to extremes, it will be bad for everyone. Yes, and this feature is common Slavic.
  30. 128mgb
    +1
    21 August 2013 11: 27
    It’s interesting for me to get a bell to the Ukrainian elite? Or blink again? After all, it has been shown already, right under the nose, what will happen if the association is signed. Or will mentality work again?
  31. stylus
    +3
    21 August 2013 11: 27
    Quote: krasin
    Having assessed the opening market, in Ukraine they decided to grab most of it. What I achieved, even if not by the most honest methods. For fattening pigs whose lard is exported to Russia, corn grain and soybeans are used, genetically modified so that the unfortunate animal that fed them dies of obesity in the first year of life. In part, this solves the problem of slaughter, because killing a pig, with 35 cm fat under the skin, is not an easy task. Of course, all this is carefully hidden, because the publication of such a thing is unprofitable for the authorities of “Independent

    Sorry dear, but it seems to me you are talking nonsense. Do you have any idea how to slaughter animals? Believe me - fat thickness does not affect this process at all!
  32. 0
    21 August 2013 11: 40
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Tender Ukrainian fat loses well behind the ears of Russians

    I don’t know how Ukrainian lard pops behind my ears because I don’t trust even Russian producers of salt in this matter, it’s not long and costly and it’s interesting with all kinds of different recipes. The whole family likes it. hi
    1. Akim
      +3
      21 August 2013 12: 12
      Quote: mhpv
      I salt it myself

      At Privoz, neither fat nor stockfish (almost nothing at all) was factory-produced. All at home.
      1. 0
        21 August 2013 12: 23
        Quote: Akim
        All at home.

        Who knows what these hands were still doing before salting? request
        1. Akim
          0
          21 August 2013 12: 31
          Quote: mhpv
          Who knows what these hands were still doing before salting?

          I graduated from a familiar food academy, they said the same thing.
          Do not think about it.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. mazepa
    -7
    21 August 2013 12: 00
    If the pro-Russian Akim is being denied for the objective truth, how will they treat the average Ukrainian?) No, brothers, in these trade wars you are actually digging your own grave. Without competition in the market, you will become a swamp, and Ukraine groaning will be reorganized into European markets and, as a result, will only benefit from this. And in the case of successful integration, this will be a huge blow to the image of the Slavic brothers and the values ​​of communism. Ukraine will become closer to the Western Slavs.
    1. +3
      21 August 2013 12: 20
      laughing laughing

      To believe that Europe came to Ukraine in order to allow the reorientation of Ukrainian products to others, IN OUR MARKETSto make Western Slavs, Europeans from Ukrainians - this is the same as believing that the Germans came to Ukraine to make Aryans from Ukrainians.

      More than 7 million extinct population of Ukraine confirms this.
    2. xan
      -1
      21 August 2013 13: 49
      Yeah, Russia only competes with Ukraine. Ukraine does not allow Russia to become a swamp, well, this is just a personal good example
      You write nonsense, illness, Ukraine’s GDP per capita is almost 3 times less than Russian.
      And so it is clear, another "peremog" is coming
    3. MG42
      +3
      21 August 2013 23: 22
      Quote: mazepa
      no, brothers, in these trade wars you are actually digging your grave. Without competition in the market, you will become a swamp, and Ukraine groaning will be reorganized into European markets and, as a result, will only benefit from this. And in the case of successful integration, this will be a huge blow to the image of the Slavic brothers and the values ​​of communism. Ukraine will become closer to the Western Slavs

      Mazepa Ivan under the chinese flag laughing wassat complete nonsense..
      You know he laughs well who laughs last. This association agreement may not be signed, there are many but >>>>
      1. Tymoshenko has not yet been released and the prospects are foggy, since Yanukovych understands that if she goes free, then in 2015 he will definitely not win the presidential election, and this is a tough condition for the EU ... to release Yulia ..
      2. Yanukovych himself loves to play thimbles, the criminal past is having an effect.
      3. Moscow, too, will not sit idly by during this time, as long as only the <yellow card> ..
      4. Remember the story of the MAP, a bummer at the last moment, and Ukraine’s entry into NATO was covered with a copper basin, it can also happen here, since the EU will no longer give a second chance then, Ukraine simply zadolbal everyone there with its uncertainty.
      5. Gazprom there also has some weight in Europe ..
      6. The country of Ukraine, in case of independence and non-alignment of further, will then be squeezed between 2 unions of the CU and the EU, receiving "duties on the hump", and the unions will develop ..
      1. Corneli
        -1
        21 August 2013 23: 39
        Quote: MG42
        1. Tymoshenko has not yet been released and the prospects are foggy, since Yanukovych understands that if she goes free, then in 2015 he will definitely not win the presidential election, and this is a tough condition for the EU ... to release Yulia ..

        Judging by the latest news, it’s not so tough anymore.
        Quote: MG42
        3. Moscow, too, will not sit idly by during this time, as long as only the <yellow card> ..

        So far, I see more likely the opposite effect, on such "cards" there is an even greater distance
        Quote: MG42
        4. Remember the story of the MAP, a bummer at the last moment, and Ukraine’s entry into NATO was covered with a copper basin, it can also happen here, since the EU will no longer give a second chance then, Ukraine simply zadolbal everyone there with its uncertainty.

        A bummer is possible, but here the main role in the desire of the "good uncles" from Europe.
        Quote: MG42
        5. Gazprom there also has some weight in Europe.

        Compared to the geopolitical benefits to the west of the split between Ukraine and Russia, the influence of Gazprom is a trifle. They need something seriously beneficial.
        Quote: MG42
        6. The country of Ukraine, in case of independence and non-alignment of further, will then be squeezed between 2 unions of the CU and the EU, receiving "duties on the hump", and the unions will develop ..

        Once again I am convinced of the colossal damage caused by the "orange" madness ... Legs in the wretchedness of the Ukrainian situation grow from there. Maybe someday Yusch will be sentenced to a watchtower for all the good things.
        1. MG42
          +2
          21 August 2013 23: 45
          Quote: Corneli
          Once again I am convinced of the colossal damage caused by the "orange" madness ... Legs in the wretchedness of the Ukrainian situation grow from there. Maybe someday Yusch will be sentenced to a watchtower for all the good things.

          I agree +. Oleg, so it was like starling epaulettes that they had already so drastically lowered the rating?
          Quote: Corneli
          Judging by the latest news, it’s not so tough anymore.

          What news? I hope not the 5th channel?
          1. Corneli
            +2
            22 August 2013 00: 10
            Quote: MG42
            I agree +. Oleg, so it was like starling epaulettes that they had already so drastically lowered the rating?

            And, it was my "ukroinophiles" who blew up my brain yesterday. And Ostap suffered) Skoko once already swore to argue in such topics (like this), you still can't prove anything to anyone, you will pick up the current minuses.)
            Quote: MG42
            What news? I hope not the 5th channel?

            When opening mail ru or Yandex, they regularly slipped, I read some sources (the original) did not track (I was sick of the topic with YUVT for a long time). In the last month or two, I especially often see, with the statements of any important EU uncles ... Only our oligarchs reassure the people, only the West is afraid to miss the opportunity from the "sweet treaty". In a win, whatever one may say, they are the ones who do not lose anything, and thanks to the break with Russia, in case of signing, Ukraine will be able to twirl it as it wants. Russia, however, is not an ice: they will lose an ally, they will definitely not make themselves better with retaliatory sanctions (Ukraine is worse, but the West is not happy with that) and will only increase anger and split. In short, whatever you say, everything is not very (
  35. +1
    21 August 2013 13: 07
    I remember there was a pyvo "Obolon" in Siberia ... but that Ukraine still has its own pig farms? almost all pork there is imported
    1. +4
      21 August 2013 13: 22
      I wondered why there were so few visitors unsubscribed in other branches, the vast majority is here. wassat
      I wonder if there will be a record for branch attendance and comments ?! winked
  36. IGS
    +1
    21 August 2013 13: 38
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: IGS
    What is happening at the border now is not a ban on imports, but a tightening of control

    Patrol officers also may not delay. But you will go through the city for a long time. So it is here.

    And note, reproaching them for not warning your wife in advance with an official document is only possible in delirium. I repeat once again, Ukraine must understand that it will be necessary to bear responsibility for its actions, and not to transfer it to Russia, the European Union, the USA or Honduras.
    1. Akim
      0
      21 August 2013 13: 47
      Quote: IGS
      And note, reproach them for not warning your wife in advance,

      No, of course, but this is chaos. And if in the neighboring city of the same PPSnik also slow down, when he will be out of service?
      1. IGS
        +1
        21 August 2013 14: 06
        I repeat once again, Russia defends its interests in all accessible ways, notice LEGAL ways. This is what all countries do. Ukraine is an independent state, and frankly, not always loyal to Russia, why should it sacrifice its interests for the well-being of Ukraine? And as for the neighboring city ... it was slowed down more than once. I wrote above about the cessation of pork supplies from Ukraine, when our meat processing enterprises simply stood up.
        1. hiocraib
          -2
          21 August 2013 14: 18
          Quote: IGS
          I repeat once again, Russia defends its interests in all accessible ways, notice LEGAL ways.

          you kind of call a spade a spade - the Kremlin and the ordained thief defend their interests. on the interests of Russia-they do not care deeply.

          as soon as the politicians of the Russian Federation begin to defend the interests of Russia, then other countries will be drawn to the Russian Federation.
          1. IGS
            -1
            21 August 2013 14: 34
            Well, maybe enough)) look for the guilty, still say: remove Putin, and Ukraine will rise from the ruins. But, in principle, I agree, partly true (in order to reach out in this utopian version, it is necessary for your thieves to disappear). Any top will make any changes, only in case of threat to their power. In Russia, at the top, it’s weakly able to push problems to someone (even to the USA, even to Paraguay), although they are trying, so they, perhaps unwittingly, have to take steps aimed at developing the country. But in Ukraine, how they came up with an enemy (or rather an excuse), and at least someone in power covers their theft with the same song, and the worst thing is that the people of Ukraine allow this for a quarter of a century, and they believe in this fairy tale even worse.
            1. hiocraib
              -4
              21 August 2013 14: 45
              Quote: IGS
              The well-being of Ukraine, the business of Ukraine itself and only it.

              dy the same for the Russian Federation;)

              it would seem that for more than 10 years the GDP has been rising from its knees - and the allies are running away, there are only those who have no alternative at all! and the only way to keep them is to constantly twist the arms ...

              but I have not heard that Ukraine benefits from the CU?

              that I lost Belarus from joining the TS I already wrote.
  37. +2
    21 August 2013 14: 41
    "Kiev's decision to sign an association agreement with the EU in November this year is a direct rejection of Moscow's offer to Ukraine to join the Customs Union." Russia explained the reasons for the customs war with Ukraine. It is all the fault of Kiev's desire to achieve virtually duty-free trade with the EU (the agreement provides for the elimination of almost all duties between Ukraine and the EU on most industrial goods). And you can understand us, because if Ukraine signs an agreement with the EU, then a huge number of European, Turkish and other goods will appear on the Ukrainian market, which will then flow to Russia, there is a danger of re-import, a significant part of goods from Ukraine are not subject to duties when imported into Russia ... It turns out that European goods will also be imported through Ukraine without duties. True, according to some experts, European goods are not so cheap as to seriously hit the Russian domestic market, even if they are re-imported from Ukraine. Therefore, the situation is rather political - Europe cannot allow the two Slavic countries to converge, and Russia to be torn apart ( and the fact that in the end this will end and not go to the fortuneteller, they have run out of free cheese) brotherly people. Normal people perfectly understand all the charms of rapprochement with a gayrope, just like us, they realize that Ukraine is not needed by gay Europeans !!! Neither its agriculture, nor its industry. And which country has joined the EU certain advantages? Romania? Bulgaria? Cyprus? Each new country increases the risk of the collapse of the "union". Ukraine will find itself in the EU's "dump", as is now the same Greece, Cyprus, that year they barely saved Spain and Italy from bankruptcy .. Croatia is still happy, let it be better to look at its neighbors ... They will not let you bask on the grass like this picture, will be brought to a complete fall, then loaded with a multibillion-dollar loan (for example, any loan issued to Greece only increases its debt, which should reach 176% of GDP this year, Greece is unlikely to be able to pay it off) and ... there was a country, yes where is she?!
  38. IGS
    +2
    21 August 2013 15: 01
    Quote: hiocraib
    Quote: IGS
    The well-being of Ukraine, the business of Ukraine itself and only it.

    dy the same for the Russian Federation;)

    it would seem that for more than 10 years the GDP has been rising from its knees - and the allies are running away, there are only those who have no alternative at all! and the only way to keep them is to constantly twist the arms ...

    but I have not heard that Ukraine benefits from the CU?

    that I lost Belarus from joining the TS I already wrote.

    Don't be cunning)) That is the Belarusian Old Man shouting about the acceleration of the rapprochement process. And above you were given specific numbers. By the way, name who ran away? And to persuade you to join, here I am just against, you with your economy, or rather its ruins and your thieves (there are enough of your own), will lay a burden on the ordinary people. Do not act like a girl of easy behavior, trying to sell a non-existent virginity at a higher price. You are no longer the Ukraine that was the "Reaper of the Motherland". The fact that you are being pulled into the vehicle is geopolitics, the fruits of which we will not see, and you will be burdened with your debts on the current generation of Russians.
    1. hiocraib
      -6
      21 August 2013 15: 14
      Quote: IGS
      That's the Belarusian Old Man screaming about accelerating the process of rapprochement.

      this balabol balabolit a lot. the other day, his minister instructed to produce 400 axes and braids per year. lol
      well, and hopes that the Hague will not get ...

      Quote: IGS
      By the way, name who ran away?

      Azerbaijan, Moldova, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Turkmenistan ...
      this is not to mention India, all sorts of China, Asia, Africa, South America ...
      1. IGS
        +1
        21 August 2013 15: 25
        By the way, did Honduras run away too? belay here, damn it, ungrateful wassat
        Do not bring nonsense, even though you don’t need to talk about China ... it’s like he escaped with you, and as far as I remember, your boss was the one who gave you Crimea ... awkwardly.
        1. hiocraib
          -4
          21 August 2013 15: 29
          Quote: IGS
          yours was sitting, the one that Crimea gave you ... as it awkwardly goes.

          yes, where does Crimea come from in Belarus !?
          1. IGS
            +2
            21 August 2013 15: 35
            Are you from Belarus? Then yes, I apologize, the mistake came out ... And what, too, is there a desire to leave Russia?
            1. hiocraib
              -2
              21 August 2013 15: 44
              Quote: IGS
              And what also has a desire to leave Russia?

              from the Kremlin and Vorya ...
              1. IGS
                +2
                21 August 2013 15: 51
                Enough for you, thief, the Kremlin is a horror story. Understand yourself first. It's easier for you, you can remove one, however, if you remove it, it will eat smaller husks. One question: why didn't you tell me earlier that you are from Belarus? With the naivete of a schoolboy, I thought that you were from Ukraine ... you passed the test, you circled it .. but why? To slide from "Russia is to blame for everything" to "the Kremlin is to blame for everything" ... sad ...
                1. hiocraib
                  -2
                  21 August 2013 16: 01
                  Quote: IGS
                  Enough for you, thief, the Kremlin is just a horror story.

                  no, harsh reality.

                  Quote: IGS
                  Understand yourself first.

                  we are trying.

                  Quote: IGS
                  One question, why didn’t you tell me earlier that you are from Belarus? With the naivete of a schoolboy, I thought that you were from Ukraine ... a set-off, you circled ... but why?

                  no idea where you got such conclusions. about what I said above.

                  Quote: IGS
                  To slide from "Russia is to blame for everything" to "the Kremlin is to blame for everything" ... sad.

                  I didn’t understand why you started trolling! it is regrettable - instead of cultural discussion, blaming the opponent for attacks on Russia - and the case is won ...
                  1. IGS
                    +1
                    21 August 2013 16: 13
                    Isn't the Kremlin in Russia? And how are you trying? Or judging by the flag from Germany are you from the orange? then I'm sorry, we understand your goals and objectives, we have enough of ours. And about trolling do not be rude:
                    Quote: hiocraib
                    Quote: IGS
                    That's the Belarusian Old Man screaming about accelerating the process of rapprochement.

                    this balabol balabolit a lot. the other day, his minister instructed to produce 400 axes and braids per year. lol
                    well, and hopes that the Hague will not get ...

                    Quote: IGS
                    By the way, name who ran away?

                    Azerbaijan, Moldova, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Turkmenistan ...
                    this is not to mention India, all sorts of China, Asia, Africa, South America ...

                    Are you sure you read the entire globe? Do not forget about the Vatican next time, otherwise it’s on the globewassat
                    All the best
      2. +5
        21 August 2013 15: 47
        Quote: hiocraib
        this balabol balabolit a lot.

        Strange you are comrade ...
        No name.
        It seems recently on the site, and you have one style on all articles - all how to smear.
        And you understand all the topics like a real pro ... just marvel at the horizons of man.

        With flags the misunderstanding:
        Here is Soviet.
        In a personal "last comments" - German.
        In this topic you find yourself - a citizen of Belarus ...

        Comrade - you hto?
        I even became curious, although the question is purely rhetorical ...
        1. hiocraib
          -4
          21 August 2013 16: 04
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Strange you are comrade ...
          No name.
          It seems recently on the site, and you have one style on all articles - all how to smear.
          And you understand all the topics like a real pro ... just marvel at the horizons of man.

          Well, not everyone can troll and discuss the personality of the opponent.
          on the topic, is there something to say?
          1. +1
            21 August 2013 16: 08
            Quote: hiocraib
            on the topic, is there something to say?

            Nope.
            I do not go into the discussion of those where I am not Copenhagen, like you, I just read the comments with interest.

            I remembered - yesterday you generally had the Ukrainian flag.
            laughing
            1. hiocraib
              -1
              21 August 2013 16: 12
              Quote: Aleks tv
              I do not go into the discussion of those where I am not Copenhagen

              and why climbed here?

              Quote: Aleks tv
              I remembered

              ndas ... you have problems with memory ...
              1. +4
                21 August 2013 16: 21
                Quote: hiocraib
                you have problems with memory ...

                I have no memory problems, even though I am shell-shocked.

                But the pseudo-military, and even more so the true trolls with dubious goals and flags, I always derive with pleasure.
            2. IGS
              +4
              21 August 2013 16: 16
              Thank you for opening your eyes to this "cosmopolitan" and fighter against the dominance of the Old Man in Belarus.
              1. hiocraib
                -5
                21 August 2013 17: 26
                Aleks tv
                IGS

                so who is sneakily minus, but on the topic there is nothing to say ...
                1. +2
                  21 August 2013 18: 16
                  Quote: hiocraib
                  so who is sneakily minus, but on the topic there is nothing to say ...

                  why, get honestly deserved minuses.
                  Yesterday I put you a plus for a good, in my opinion, phrase.
                  Then I figured out what kind of fruit you were when you started to bustle on specifics.
                  This is really petty.
                  And today, reading komenty, I see that you just quarrel all. Without analyzing anyone, all the Slavs in a row. In such topics and climb.
                  1. hiocraib
                    -6
                    21 August 2013 18: 19
                    well, you yourself are very clearly described. be proud further on your meanness.

                    I have the honor.
                    1. +3
                      21 August 2013 19: 09
                      Quote: hiocraib
                      be proud further on your meanness.

                      - It is vile to impersonate a specialist in the field of military knowledge.
                      You warp people who have had a fate in mind.
                      - It is meanly stealthily, as in this topic, to quarrel brotherly peoples.

                      If I made a mistake, prove it with your intelligible messages, you shouldn’t just catch the cons.
                      I personally apologize if not so.
                      1. hiocraib
                        -4
                        21 August 2013 19: 17
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        impersonating a specialist in the field of military knowledge.

                        I remember that you could not answer 2 simple questions and started trolling the opponent’s personality. anyone can check this by looking at the BMPT thread.
                        your level of "specialist" you colorfully showed there.

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        You warp people who have had a fate in mind.

                        and as usual we troll ...

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        minuses after all not only catch from me.

                        cons from just two - you and your clone, IGS, who did not leave a single message on the topic - all of you have some kind of globes ...

                        ps although I recognize the sofa warrior. Are you a case not Andrej-BT? well, you get to shit everyone who is not a patriot ...
                      2. +3
                        21 August 2013 20: 13
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        I remember that you were not able to answer 2 simple questions

                        Heh, you really have to answer by trolling, I apologize to others that are not on the topic of "branches".

                        1. Two platoons of fighters will not be replaced by any supermachine, I answered you in that thread.
                        2. And to the question what is better BMPT compared to the tank and the BMP also answered - do not compare the incomparable, they have different tasks.
                        Is everything right?

                        You began to argue that in the city BMPT is not needed and in the "Christmas tree" it is out of place. To which I suggested that you draw a "Christmas tree" diagram (I have already described general provisions on the site more than once), to which you evaded the answer.
                        I think that with what ease you throw words about combat experience, at best, causes hostility.

                        Quote: hiocraib
                        cons from just two - you and your clone, IGS,

                        Well, I don’t have a clone, no ... sorry, of course, the two would be somehow more fun. eheh.

                        Quote: hiocraib
                        Are you a case not Andrej-BT?

                        It is very curious what kind of comrade this is ... He did not understand whether they insulted me or praised me, maybe the forum users will tell me ...
                        I have been on the forum a little over a year.

                        Quote: hiocraib
                        cheers patriot ...

                        Unfortunately, I have a lot of complaints about the current government, and I do not scream cheers, but I also don’t pour mud on it.

                        I would have forgotten about yesterday’s conversation, but reading this topic, I marveled how you managed to insert Belarus into a difficult dispute between Ukraine and Russia, and all that’s really bad for you ...
                        It seems that your west is wonderful, as is the German flag.

                        I repeat, if I am mistaken, prove it by comments, I assure you, I’m not the only one who minuses you, I have nothing more to do.
                        If it’s wrong, I’m sorry, not a problem.
                      3. +1
                        21 August 2013 20: 17
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        It’s very curious what kind of friend this is ...

                        It’s strange that you didn’t hear about him. This is Andrey Tarasenko, author of BTT Steel and Fire, a fierce opponent of Khlopotov, Gurk Khan. To tell me honestly it would be a compliment, but you couldn’t take it to him. Not like that.
                      4. hiocraib
                        -5
                        21 August 2013 21: 06
                        Quote: Kars
                        Say honestly for me it would be a compliment, but you can’t take it to you. Do not look like that.

                        both end on any topic o / I am a Nazi face, o-srache unfortunately. some kind of talent ...
                      5. +1
                        21 August 2013 22: 13
                        Quote: Kars
                        This is Andrey Tarasenko, author of BTT website

                        Yes, I heard of course.
                        And he was here on the site?
                        Very interesting.

                        Thanks for the info, Kars.
                      6. hiocraib
                        -6
                        21 August 2013 21: 04
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        1. Two platoons of fighters will not be replaced by any supermachine,

                        Well tip, mastered! from the sixth call ...

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        2. And to the question what is better BMPT compared to the tank and the BMP also answered - do not compare the incomparable, they have different tasks.
                        Is everything right?

                        correctly. Neither Tank’s tasks, nor BMPT’s BMP tasks can be completed - but it’s necessary to give a tank or heels to a BMP.

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        You began to argue that in the city BMPT is not needed and in the "Christmas tree" it is out of place.

                        It's cool that someone who claimed "I would have a couple of BMPTs in a" Christmas tree "would never have mastered this very" Christmas tree, "and demands it from an opponent. hi

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        I think that with what ease you throw words about combat experience, at best, causes hostility.

                        That's right - why are you starting to whistle about someone else’s combat experience? the truth is in the only case - when there is nothing to say, but you want to crap your opponent ...

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        I would have forgotten about yesterday’s conversation, but reading this topic, I wondered how you managed to insert Belarus into a difficult dispute between Ukraine and Russia, and all of this is completely bad for you.

                        Duc would refute that in Belarus after the TS it became better - but no, you are trying to insult me. real munchink however.

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        It seems that your west is wonderful, as is the German flag.

                        I have the opportunity to compare. and Belarus, and the Russian Federation, and Poland, and Germany with France.
                        and nobody canceled IP anonymizers;)

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        , I assure you, I’m not the only one who minus you, I have nothing more to do.

                        look at the number of minuses - you and your clone are trying.

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        If it’s wrong, I’m sorry, not a problem.

                        I do not need your apologies.
                      7. +3
                        21 August 2013 22: 54
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        why are you all starting to whistle about someone else’s combat experience?

                        I understand that we all on the Internet are protected by the unknown and everyone can say anything about themselves.
                        But a few casual phrases can say a lot ...

                        On this forum I am relaxing and nostalgic. I somehow no longer need adrenaline, I swear, I try not to engage in skirmishes.
                        The forum has open access and sometimes people like you cut your ears a little - arrogant know-it-alls.
                        I have a description of the "Christmas tree" in the comments, a few months ago, although I do not insist on its ideality.
                        ..........................
                        One word you said in vain - "whistle".
                        In vain. The word is bad.
                      8. hiocraib
                        0
                        22 August 2013 11: 07
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        I understand that we all on the Internet are protected by the unknown and everyone can say anything about themselves.

                        you are so funny! I didn’t say anything to myself. and your fantasies are yours. and unfortunately each time your fantasies bring you from a constructive discussion of the topic to a discussion of the personality of the opponent when you do not want to admit your mistakes. but this is your personal matter.

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        The forum has open access and sometimes people like you cut your ears a little - arrogant know-it-alls.

                        You described yourself perfectly.

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        I have a description of the "Christmas tree" in my comments, a few months ago,

                        is this a kind of excuse? Should I answer in the same spirit - "answer on another gorum 3 years ago"?
                        strong! burn ischo, today I mocked for the whole day! fellow

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        One word you said in vain - "whistle".
                        In vain. The word is bad.

                        so graft that I call whistlers whistlers. especially whistling about someone else’s combat experience and turning to the personality of the opponent when you need to admit your wrongness.
                      9. +1
                        22 August 2013 13: 31
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        is this a kind of excuse? Should I answer in the same spirit - "answer on another gorum 3 years ago"?


                        The boisterous German bird begins to get a little annoying ... I'm not talking about you, but just about the birds.
                        With your reasoning, you would be sent to the barracks, your thoughts would have been voiced there ...
                        It would be fun. You are our smelter.
                        Well, if you please, I collect the city Christmas tree from memory, place it in two places, once again I apologize, which is off topic:


                        The main force in the battle in the city is the infantryman.
                        Platoons and squads are divided into assault groups of 3-5 people in each.
                        The equipment performs the functions of fire support and cover.
                        Fighting vehicles are combined into a single fire group under one command.
                        The construction of the "Christmas tree" takes into account the features of the city and the streets and is always individual. The most difficult task when storming avenues with multi-story buildings. In this case, the company tactical group “takes” one street.
                        Cars become in two rows, clinging in order to the houses. No one pokes into the center of the street.
                        The task of the first line machines is the most difficult - they open the firing points, actually taking fire on themselves. The fire sector is cross. Those. the car controls the building on the opposite side of the street in front of another first-line combat vehicle. Accordingly, that machine does the same.
                        Who to put in the head of the Christmas tree? BMP, BTR, MTLB - this is definitely to bury the fighters. The tank is more protected, but its long-barreled gun with the characteristics of a direct-fire gun with a small elevation angle is not always effective in fulfilling a task in an urban environment.
                        Here BMPT would be useful (there is nothing else in metal in the army). Unsuitable besides the AGS field here could “clean” the street in front. "Thirty" controlled all the floors of buildings in height. Reservations are appropriate. The use of ATGMs is unlikely. Even if the module is destroyed, the crew is intact. The hull side is protected at the level. Here, in conjunction with the BMPT, it is possible to use a tank, and not to keep it in the second line.
                        In the second line of Christmas trees, BMP-2 vehicles are also possible. They cover the buildings of the opposite street very well in front of the assault groups and insure the windows above the first line of the fire group, but only as second-line cars when they themselves are covered. This is followed by BMP-2 support groups and general reserve vehicles.
                        Those. vehicles of one line are blocked by fire in front and above the second line of combat vehicles. Without clear coherence, the Christmas tree is impossible and even dangerous for one's own.
                        Assault groups operate slightly in front of the first line, around the first line and jump on the floors. The task of the second line is not to confuse the threat with their fighters, installed by PC and LNG-9 in window openings.

                        The second tier is a closed topic. I do not think that it is possible to discuss it on an open site. I’ll say its general meaning - fixing on the occupied territory and ensuring the passage of intersections, storming the squares.
                        The second echelon and the passage of intersections are supervised by a superior commander - the battalion commander.

                        In a low-rise suburb, the tactics are slightly different; it is possible to bring “mountaineers” to the foreground.
                        In villages - the most difficult topic. Each village has its own group. In emotional terms, the most difficult assault, since there are almost always civilians.
                        .........................
                        Your essence is clear - continue to focus on the battle in the city on the BMP-2.
                        You are categorically against the strengthening of gronegroups, and the appearance of new equipment in the Russian Army. Your lamentations about the safety of fighters are deceitful. It is necessary to prepare infantry, but not for mincemeat.
                        I do not think the BMPT is an ideal machine, but I’m ready to accept what it is - small-caliber weapons protected by tank armor.
                        Storm the cities themselves in "coffins", a paper troll theorist.

                        I don’t give a damn about your opinion, but not about the opinions of others.
                      10. hiocraib
                        -3
                        22 August 2013 17: 24
                        for saying on the topic - I put a plus.
                        not minus fundamentally.
                        the rest of the writings are your problems, I don’t read it.
                      11. +1
                        22 August 2013 17: 47
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        for saying on the topic - I put a plus.
                        not minus fundamentally.

                        I didn’t start srach. I do not digest it in principle.
                        Have the courage to masculine admit that you do not own the entirety of information on the topic.
                        I am far from being a light, but I know my "theme", I do not climb into others.
                      12. hiocraib
                        -2
                        22 August 2013 18: 38
                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        I didn’t start srach.

                        No, of course not you. and you didn’t drag him here, he came for you laughing

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        Have the courage to masculine admit that you do not own the entirety of information on the topic.

                        if you bring anything (except for your slander and lies) that I spoke out somewhere about my omniscience, I will immediately admit.

                        if you don’t bring it - do what you demand of me - admit that you are a liar and a scoundrel, slandering others.

                        Quote: Aleks tv
                        I am far from being a light, but I know my "theme", I do not climb into others.

                        I was convinced of this by your first post on this topic.
                      13. +1
                        22 August 2013 18: 51
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        if you bring anything (except for your slander and lies) that I spoke out somewhere about my omniscience, I will immediately admit.

                        Be so kind as to finally give out your urban battle tactics, wherever the BMP-2 could replace the BMPT, it’s good to evade.
                        You all know.
                        The need for BMP-T was recognized by yourself, no one pulled you by the tail.

                        I propose to return to the "old" thread, where they began to communicate, so as not to interfere with others.
                        Unfortunately I am forced to disconnect tonight and will not be able to respond promptly.
                      14. hiocraib
                        -3
                        22 August 2013 18: 55
                        understandably. confirmation of your lies, you have not found.

                        you are a LIAR and a VILLAIN.

                        I have the honor.
                      15. 0
                        22 August 2013 23: 46
                        Quote: hiocraib
                        I have the honor.

                        Oh well.
                      16. IGS
                        0
                        22 August 2013 04: 09
                        Yes, I read, and I don’t understand, well, damn why they take mediocrity for this job. The fact that you are a troll is proved by one trivial fact, as soon as I stopped talking to you far away, the questions stopped, you attributed me to the clones, now look at the number of minuses, but I have just 2 minuses at almost all posts , do not enlighten, my dear, about your second epostasy, we would be curious. Who are you hiding from? Stirlitz, you are ours, unclaimed, but rather Joe, the elusive.
                        Aleks tv, if you will allow me to, DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO IT, he is a pancake in ecstasy (I'd say he does what he does on the monitor) from each of your comments that he blew you apart. IT DOESN’T IMPORTANT WHAT YOU ARE WRITING, IT RESPONSES TO YOU, JUST TRANSLATING THE WORDS IN YOUR COMMENTS, WHEN IT DOESN'T RECEIVE, IT PUTS OUT THE SLOGAN (ALL THE VINEGATURE IS EXEMPTIVE, IEVERY IS REASONED, I DO NOT WORK). Do not feed the troll with your emotions. Especially the crappy troll. And as for your clone ... well, judging by your comments, our opinions coincide in many respects, although there will probably be differences. My name is Igor.
                      17. 0
                        22 August 2013 10: 24
                        Quote: IGS
                        My name is Igor.

                        Alex.

                        Hello Siberia from the Urals.
                        hi
                      18. IGS
                        0
                        22 August 2013 15: 39
                        I myself am a Muscovite, a wife from Siberia, and we have been living in 2 cities for many years, most of them in Novosibirsk. So, in return, greetings from Moscow and, as the missus says, from hospitable Siberia. hi
                    2. BYRY
                      +2
                      22 August 2013 03: 21
                      Where is the honor? They don’t sell it for dollars.
  39. fastblast
    +1
    21 August 2013 15: 34
    here the sweet life ended, brothers and sisters.

    how will we continue to live?

    take offense at us, damn us?

    eh ... but there was a time ... even our great rulers regaled themselves together with sweets!




    oh-no-no candy)
  40. +1
    21 August 2013 15: 53
    Quote: Akim
    Russia looked yesterday - but how will you yourself if you quarrel with everyone?

    So far, everyone is merging with Russia.
    1. Akim
      0
      21 August 2013 16: 15
      Quote: mejik
      So far, everyone is merging with Russia.

      Who first started is late to understand.
  41. +4
    21 August 2013 16: 09
    Still, you comrades, gentlemen or neighbors, will not understand that Russia is not going to annex and absorb you. To join you to Russia is to shoulder another burden of economic, political and ever-increasing territorial problems on you and be responsible for all this and in front of the people of Ukraine. No, they hold out an oar, and row, be so kind as yourself. Here is a quote expressed back in 2004 by Pavel Bykov, Olga Vlasova:
    "We need a strong partner

    Russia is interested in Ukraine becoming a single, strong, democratic state pursuing an independent policy. The fact that this is exactly so is completely obvious: Russia needs capable partners, and not new problem zones near the borders. Moscow already has enough worries in the CIS countries and inside the country to strive to hang a new load on its neck.

    The Russian government is just beginning to restore order in the management of the regions. The situation in the North Caucasus is still explosive. The problem of the future of Kaliningrad has not been resolved. Relations with friendly Belarus are very tense. Conflicts in Transcaucasia are frozen, but not resolved. Moscow sees Washington’s military presence in Central Asia as a blessing. These are the realities. What direct control over fifty millionth Ukraine - a country with its rather big problems - can we talk about?

    The fewer problems Kiev has, the easier it will be for Moscow. The stronger Ukraine is, the more opportunities for mutually beneficial cooperation. Russia needs an ally who would take on part of the responsibility for military and political stability in the region, with whom it would be possible to carry out major international business projects in the CIS countries, in the Black Sea region, the Balkans, and in Europe. "
    So think for yourself. hi
    1. Akim
      -3
      21 August 2013 16: 21
      Quote: mhpv
      No you hold the paddle

      You are right, but when they give one oar., You can row only in a circle.
      1. +4
        21 August 2013 16: 55
        You’ll do the second yourself, not all will be served, but for now you can shift from side to side.
        “It’s easy to serve, much more difficult to make a donation unnecessary.” G. Ford
        And here are some more golden words
        “Coming together is a beginning. Staying together is progress. Working together is success.” G. Ford
        1. Akim
          -3
          21 August 2013 17: 03
          Quote: mhpv
          You’ll do the second yourself, not all will be served.

          I’m not sure that the oar served by modern Russia, then it will not be taken away. with a profit in the form of a rudder.
          1. +5
            21 August 2013 17: 21
            Azarov admitted partial guilt of Ukrainian exporters in customs problems
            Part of the blame for the problems that arose at Russian customs lies with Ukrainian exporters, since they did not pay attention to risk profiles issued by Russian customs officers, Prime Minister of Ukraine Nikalay Azarov said.

            more details http://www.vz.ru/news/2013/8/21/646571.html
          2. +5
            21 August 2013 17: 24
            You are afraid to take the oar from Russia; take it from the EU only by giving the oar to the EU also on the head e. laughing
      2. 0
        22 August 2013 03: 30
        Quote: Akim
        You are right, but when they give one oar., You can row only in a circle.
        Yes? And rowers on canoes and pies somehow manage. Apparently the matter is in skill and desire ...
        1. Akim
          0
          22 August 2013 08: 19
          Quote: svp67
          Yes? And rowers on canoes and pies somehow manage.


          It depends on which vessel is underfoot. If you want to give a narrow body (for maneuver), then it will do. Only a limited boat is not wanted in Ukraine itself.
      3. 0
        22 August 2013 06: 00
        Quote: Akim

        You are right, but when they give one oar., You can row only in a circle.

        Hahaha, you’ve been swimming in a circle for 22 years, I don’t understand what kind of **** laughing
        1. Akim
          -1
          22 August 2013 08: 24
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Hahaha, you've been swimming in a circle for 22 years

          The geopolitical situation in Ukraine seems to be hard for you. There were oars, only he rowed in different directions. It was reminiscent of Lenin's Tango. Now they are in one tie, and Russia is simply afraid that the boat with the hull number "Ukraine" will begin to move away faster.
  42. +4
    21 August 2013 17: 40
    Yes, everything is simple ... Our banana republic (who does not know, read About "Henry)" decided to once again "weld", or rather the newly made oligarch.Ukraine enters into association with the EU, i.e. the EU opens or slightly opens borders for goods, just like that on the border with Russia, the goods are now or were going according to a simplified scheme. The guys decided to make a gesheft to sell the European without extra charges. So they were shown that this will not happen - it will open there, it will close ...
  43. general
    -3
    21 August 2013 18: 24
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    and until a customs officer looks into each, the container operator will not go anywhere.

    what are you saying! can you give more details? Do you work at customs and know the nuances of working in Ukraine and Russia?
    1. 0
      22 August 2013 05: 58
      Quote: chung
      what are you saying! can you give more details? you work at customs

      No, I don’t work there, but I visit the terminal territory 1-2 times a week and I know a good part of the customs. They work (wool conteiner) in front of my eyes. Yes and talk too
  44. Zopuhhh
    -1
    21 August 2013 18: 33
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: Corsair
    in the direction of the Eurozone, because this is due to the radical breaking "through the knee" of all economic and financial spheres.

    It depends on what. In general, diversification of the economy is needed. Now for comparison, most of the imports do not go to Russia, but in 2004 - it was 80% of the Russian market.

    And where to???? o_o
    1. Akim
      -3
      21 August 2013 18: 43
      Quote: Zopuhhh
      And where to???? o_o

      India, China, Indonesia have recently begun to eat a lot. Egypt was the largest buyer of Ukrainian grain.
      1. +2
        22 August 2013 03: 08
        Quote: Akim
        India, China, Indonesia have recently begun to eat a lot. Egypt was the largest buyer of Ukrainian grain.
        With the sale of goods to the geyropu, a bummer came out, on the warhead the same as armored personnel carriers would not unload ...
        Where will you sell it later?
        To Mars?
  45. +7
    21 August 2013 18: 56
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Delicate Ukrainian bacon trash well behind the ears of Russians. (All my guests, Muscovites, immediately run to "Privoz" for tender bacon, which melts in the mouth and smoked meats. What could be tastier than Ukrainian sausage and with a glass of "samzhen".)

    Do not agree with you Captain Vrungel! I don’t know how Muscovites are, but we have a lot of local fat and sausages, and the price is reasonable. And in the beginning of the 90s, ours offered, let’s say we will trade: We give you wood and metal, and you give us food. In response, they received: Nibble your metal, eat your wood, and we will eat lard. Well, where to go, they restored pig farms and pig farms in the region, and remained with metal, with wood and with food. So, it is not known who else benefited from independence.
    1. +2
      21 August 2013 19: 29
      Quote: Simon
      In response, they received: Nibble your metal, eat your wood, and we will eat lard. Well, where to go, they restored pig farms and pig farms in the region, and remained with metal, with wood and with food. So, it is not known who else benefited from independence.

      !!!!!! ++++++++++ hi
      1. hiocraib
        -5
        21 August 2013 19: 32
        well threw zhyyyrno!
  46. Akim
    +1
    21 August 2013 19: 35
    Pancake. Today in the morning I wanted to sit down and from the Serbian and Croatian sites to bungle the article. But the technical topics on the MILITARY site collect a dozen comments. Much nicer to scold the neighbor. Isn’t it, gentlemen, Russians?
    1. +1
      21 August 2013 22: 36
      Quote: Akim
      But the technical topics on the MILITARY site collect a dozen comments.

      To the point, Kim.
      It is a pity.
      1. Alex 241
        +2
        21 August 2013 22: 38
        Kim, Alexei, I welcome, but the site is increasingly slipping into the political plane.
        1. 0
          21 August 2013 23: 07
          Quote: Alex 241
          the site is increasingly slipping into the political plane.

          Hi Sasha.

          Ага.
          Somehow I threw off statistics on-line: army topics - single comments, political topics - hundreds of comments ...

          In principle, not scary, but cool for sure - like a grandmother with seeds. (just humor)
          winked
          1. +1
            21 August 2013 23: 13
            Quote: Aleks tv
            rmey topics - single comments, political topics - hundreds of comments ...

            several times raised the question of separating both ratings and materials with the possibility of disabling the unnecessary part - they are reluctant. Popularity, views.
        2. +1
          21 August 2013 23: 26
          Quote: Alex 241
          Kim, Alexei, I welcome, but the site is increasingly slipping into the political plane.

          Quote: Aleks tv
          Somehow I threw off statistics on-line: army topics - single comments, political topics - hundreds of comments ...

          Greetings. Maybe it's not so bad. There is no war - we are discussing politics. Articles about the situation in Syria are not left without comment - war!
          1. +1
            21 August 2013 23: 38
            Quote: Normal
            Maybe it's not so bad. There is no war - we are discussing politics.

            Greetings, Vladimir.

            Speaking in this vein, then of course - YES.
            Yes

            But Kars is right -
            Quote: Kars
            Popularity, views.


            Come on, but less "random" go into military topics.
            wink
            1. 0
              22 August 2013 00: 48
              Quote: Aleks tv
              But Kars is right -

              Kars is right, but if he had not been so aggressive and categorical in his comments, then there would have been more regular visitors on the tank topic, albeit not as informed as he, but with his own opinion.
              Quote: Aleks tv
              Come on, but less "random" go into military topics.

              Here! This is the contradiction. If there are a lot of commentators, then the majority are amateurs, if proffies and specialists are "their circle is narrow, they are terribly far from the people" laughing As elsewhere, always and everywhere you need a middle ground. Yes
            2. Akim
              -2
              22 August 2013 01: 11
              Quote: Aleks tv
              Come on, but less "random" go into military topics.

              It would be better to go. At least they would know something. There are level comments Oh, what good fellows we are - remain unanswered.
              1. 0
                22 August 2013 01: 16
                Quote: Akim
                It would be better to go. At least they would know something. There comments of the level of Ah, what good fellows we are, remain unanswered


                Or maybe there are few comments in army topics, because a thinking person reads these topics, not an emotional one?
    2. +2
      21 August 2013 22: 50
      Quote: Akim
      But the technical topics on the MILITARY site collect a dozen comments


      The way it is. Has anyone promised an easy life? Do not give up!

      Technical topics always require the work of the mind, not just vague discussions about the possible or expected development of political events.

      We must fight for the site! It is always a pleasure to read a technical article prepared by a professional!

      Over time, the turbidity settles - the grain remains!
    3. +1
      22 August 2013 05: 55
      Quote: Akim
      Much nicer to scold the neighbor. Isn’t it, gentlemen, Russians?

      No, well, this is arrogance, you wrote all day that the Kremlin is sitting. Russia is impudent, Moscow is to blame for everything, and so on, and now Russian users are again to blame for not letting you write an article. Listen, you're an angel in the flesh , and we are Russian rot you here.
  47. 0
    21 August 2013 19: 50
    and the name of this oligarch Firtish?
    1. +1
      21 August 2013 23: 29
      Quote: studentmati
      Technical topics always require the work of the mind, not just vague discussions about the possible or expected development of political events.
      Alexander! It so happened that I know a little about something about something from the air defense. But I’m not sure that putting my knowledge to the public, I’m not violating anything. Still, 1 form of admission ... For the rest of the technical topics I’m not talking about it, since I am not a specialist. But I read - EVERYTHING. It seems to me that VO just has the necessary variety of topics, the depth of analysis of the material presented by the Authors and the most talented Authors! Dude and Volodin are worth it! And on purely technical topics to talk - there are other resources. And how many witty people are here! Here is my IMHO - well, thank God that not only the technology is on the site we are talking about!
  48. +1
    21 August 2013 22: 57
    In general, it is clear that this could be called a trade war, but it did not come to pass, because everything rolled back. Yeah, Russia has shown that it can be solved by such methods, Ukrainian public opinion has also shown itself - Ukrainians mentally grouped like a hedgehog in a ball, and protruded needles feel The last time I saw this was during the "conquest" of Tuzla. sho is characteristic, the arguments of Russia were also quite businesslike, as well as with "protection from the poisoned confections of Poroshenko" and all the bad things from Ukraine - and we are building a dam so that the bank does not erode, like grit, nothing personal! feel ... Well, okay, in our brotherly relationship we have passed the stick method, and now, in fact, where are the gingerbread? Do our Russian friends really mean by carrots constant discrimination of their partners in the CIS or the CU? And why do our friends proudly answer that the Ukrainians have nothing to say, because they will not give up hydrocarbons? I will say this argument is extremely shameful. In the end, all this can be transformed into the scenario of an anecdote about the Elusive Joe, whom no one catches, because no one needs him. Such is the situation with Russian hydrocarbons, in Ukraine there are fewer of them, not because of a good life ... Well, actually, why does Russia grant the most favored treatment to "gay Europians" in trade positions and the same gas? we beat them together in 45! soldier And finally, I will say this: I understand the efforts of the Ukrainian authorities to search for new markets, and I do not understand the Kremlin's hysteria in this matter. In Ukrainian-Russian relations, Russia often behaves like the "homeland of elephants" on a small Ukrainian farm near Dykanka. there will never be a more pro-Russian and pro-Russian government in Ukraine than now. You need to take advantage of the moment, and not get carried away by the "dizziness of success" and try to be forcefully nice.
    1. +1
      22 August 2013 03: 15
      Quote: Aeneas
      we drove the whip method, and now, actually, where are the gingerbread cookies?
      Gingerbread cookies were in the 90s.
      VUKRAINEN they got upset, only behind the ears it was popping, but not in the horse's feed.
      Now only a whip.
      1. general
        0
        23 August 2013 15: 22
        Tell ATAT - and NE RUSI love VUKRAINEN?
  49. NOMAD
    +1
    21 August 2013 23: 14
    Alas! But the Ukrainian authorities cannot understand in any way that it is not worth competing and bulling in relations with Russia! Ukraine is now an ordinary country! Compared to the fact that it was part of the USSR! And what weight and economic power it had! Due to the fact that until the helm of the Soviet Union took place after the Georgian organized crime group, the Ukrainian organized crime group led by Khrushchev and then Brezhnev! The paradox of the Soviet Union, read Russia, was ruled by all Ukrainians, Georgians (except Lenin and Gorbachev) but not Russian! Now it’s a pity to watch when the once brotherly peoples of the same faith Ukraine and Georgians simply compete in who is the most naughty of Russia! Ukraine must understand that the first thing should be the economy, not politics! This Ukraine needs a market for Russia, it natural resources and not vice versa! And so An interesting situation is observed in the relations between these countries! One spoils on the doorstep at the other, slops mud to please the West, steals gas, property, trains military specialists and supplies weapons with which they are fighting against the fraternal people (Georgian-Ossetian) conflict, etc. . and she also wants to be respected and allowed to enter her market! They’ve gotten used to the idea of ​​kicking Russia! It’s time for the brothers to understand that the former USSR countries need Russia, and not these Russian countries! And Russia can now afford first-class lard for its grandmas to buy all over the world! It’s good that there are sane people in Ukraine who may think differently! And they are ashamed of the similar behavior of their politicians and I apologize to these people!
  50. 0
    22 August 2013 00: 05
    And again, there are only two of them against all ....
    Akim and Corneli respect, thanks to comrades from Belarus and Kazakhstan.
    Regarding technical topics, they already asked about the material about the MC, a good article against the background of Ukrainian "news".
    well, that’s how a person works, he’s interested in love topics ...
    On the topic of association.
    The sisters are taller and stronger, they hit weaker, but she resists, her thoughts are very different - from running away to "giving back". If you beat, even with the slogan "for the good", then it is not a fact that the "good" will be perceived correctly. Most likely the opposite.
    When you were beaten, your response is unlikely to be adequate immediately.
    Regarding the EU CU, I would like a commission that would publicly announce where it is more profitable and pragmatically render a judgment for BP and PR.
    such cases are not done on the basis of the opinion of the PR. he will be gone in a year.
    1. Corneli
      0
      22 August 2013 00: 26
      Quote: Cristall
      Akim and Corneli respect, thanks to comrades from Belarus and Kazakhstan

      ATP, the akim got more, I saw a topic late ... I read it already it was a pity, it is usually positive.
      Quote: Cristall
      Regarding the EU CU, I would like a commission that would publicly announce where it is more profitable and pragmatically render a judgment for BP and PR.
      such cases are not done on the basis of the opinion of the PR. he will be gone in a year.

      IMHO Our oligarchs do not want to join the Customs Union, since the oligarchs of Russia will absorb them, Putin looks at it politically, ours is purely economic. In the EU, especially with the signing of an association agreement (which actually does not oblige them to anything), they will not take the money and money away from them, but they will be moved to the Customs Union. Hence the obstinacy, the oligarchy thinks in a belly and "today" the distant future (or some mythical development) does not bother them much, the welfare of their country is even less, the main thing is that the electorate did not die of hunger, and the revolution was not arranged.
      And the PR will not go anywhere. More precisely, those oligarchs who rule in the Rada will not go anywhere ... Will they lose to the PR, they will simply go to another party in power, the first time they are shooli? They have loot and crusts ... they will be taken, whoever wins. There is half of "Our Ukraine" (Yushch) and "Batkivshchyna" by Yulina (the richest ones) where? Correctly in the OL.
      1. Akim
        +1
        22 August 2013 01: 27
        Quote: Corneli
        Akim got more, I later saw the topic ... I read it already it was a pity it was, it is usually positive.

        Break through. For one beaten, two unbeaten give. But he talked. In this topic and in another one about the Ukrainian economy, I left comments as in a month. But once they react, then I touch the necessary notes.
  51. +3
    22 August 2013 00: 05
    Quote: NOMAD
    Ukraine is now an ordinary country! Compared to the fact that it was part of the USSR! And what weight and economic power it had!

    This is the 10th time I’ll write. I personally knew very well what an industrial giant Ukraine was in the mid-late 80s. And if modern Ukrainians believe that they have EVERYTHING H A R A S H O!, then they simply do not know their own history. In the North, I constantly meet with specialists from Ukraine. Enough has been said. Without saying a word. So, dear Akim, I have an idea about your affairs. But only about industry. In agriculture, it may be better for you. Although...A state living in debt from the IMF does not last long. The trend, however...
    1. +5
      22 August 2013 08: 48
      we know very well what industrial giants there were in Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, etc. There were... Under the USSR. But why go on and on about how there is nothing in Ukraine, devastation, “genocide” of Russians, etc., I don’t really understand recourse I really live here, I can see everything! ... Regarding debts from MeVeF and others. Ukraine's gross external debt per capita is by no means the highest in Europe and the world, and is even lower than in Belarus. I remember once in an interview, Putin quite seriously said that Russia is lending to Ukraine...through the IMF! like we zhezh (Russia) also give money there. winked
  52. NOMAD
    +3
    22 August 2013 08: 41
    The Customs Union has just begun to work, and everyone expects immediate benefits from it! This won’t happen! It’s like demanding good sexual satisfaction from a young, inexperienced girl! The CU arose where countries understand each other and are ready to give up part of their independence to supranational bodies! And of course, send part of the cash flows to the economies of these countries, and not send them to support foreign economies! Because a very strong player, China, has appeared! Today, fill and collapse the market of any country for the PRC is a mere trifle! In terms of prices, quality and quantity! In addition, Russia, Kazakhstan and other CIS countries have become simply a dump for illiquid assets of the world economies! Light industry, mechanical engineering, electronic industry, etc. have suffered! save at least what is left of the created vehicle! This all needs to be protected! Kazakhstan borders the Xinjiang Uyghur region of China! So, in just 15-20 years, this once abandoned and godforsaken area has become a thriving modern one! of course, at the expense of oil money from Russia and Kazakhstan!!! Therefore, when Nazarbayev went there and saw all this miracle at our expense, Kazakhstan’s entry into the customs union accelerated! And the EU, despite its liberalism, protected its interests so much that you can’t just bring a sausage there!!! Taking into account the goods of the CIS countries their specificity is needed only by us and no one else! And Ukraine wants to sit on two chairs; And eat the fish and, as they say, do something else! There are two ways! Go to the EU! There will be nothing left of industry! Or you are welcome to the TS, then only you accept the rules of the TS game! And the candies are just the beginning! Next will be pipes, rolled metal, light and food industry products! Recently, Kazakhstan, probably on a tip from Russia, temporarily banned Ukrainian chicken legs!! For other countries, this is already a wake-up call and quite a serious one!!!
  53. KOH
    +1
    23 August 2013 08: 58
    Quote: hiocraib
    kars
    here I, as a citizen of Belarus, have questions about the vehicle:
    1. Machines (average cost before the introduction of vehicle duties of about 6 and up to 000 years) have become more expensive by 10 euros.
    2. in 2011, the Belarusian ruble was devalued 3 times (the dollar from 3 thousand became 9 thousand).
    3. Large enterprises - MTZ, MAZ - work on a four-day basis and are expelled on holidays, there is nowhere to put products on the territory. rejection of defense industry products (for example, replacing the MZKT with KamAZ, which has never made this class of equipment)
    3. the twisting of Russian politicians hands on the sale of state-owned enterprises to Russian PARTICIPANTS - dairy and other wars ...

    tell me, these are only superficial examples of what benefits and what kind of winnings from the TS for Belarus they say !?


    I fully support you here...
  54. Tamerlanf1
    0
    26 August 2013 14: 17
    I am sure that if Ukraine does not join the Customs Union, then its products will not be on the shelves of Russian stores
  55. +2
    26 August 2013 16: 44
    Quote: NOMAD
    Kazakhstan borders the Xinjiang Uyghur region of China! So, in just 15-20 years, this once abandoned and godforsaken area has become a thriving modern one! of course, at the expense of oil money from Russia and Kazakhstan!!!


    Are you completely out of your mind? What other oil money does Russia and Kazakhstan have in the XUAR? bully

    Quote: NOMAD
    Already recently, Kazakhstan, probably on a tip from Russia, temporarily banned Ukrainian chicken legs!! For other countries, this is already a call and quite a serious one!!!


    Russian chicken was also blacklisted there, not only Ukrainian.
    1. NOMAD
      +1
      26 August 2013 19: 04
      KONU in person! Kazakh oil and Russian oil flow through the Atyrau-Alashankol oil pipeline precisely to the Qinjiang-Uyghur region! Shuttle traders especially from Russia and Kazakhstan export currency to this area! Buying their Chinese consumer goods!!! And stocking up on our flea market!! With the introduction of the customs union, a crisis began in China! That's it - cash flow has decreased!!! a regulation was issued regarding Russian chicken, but Ukrainian chicken was banned!!!!
  56. +2
    26 August 2013 20: 05
    Quote: NOMAD
    KONU in person!


    Who is CON?

    Quote: NOMAD
    Kazakh oil and Russian oil flow through the Atyrau-Alashankol oil pipeline precisely to the Qinjiang-Uyghur region! Shuttle traders especially from Russia and Kazakhstan export currency to this area! Buying their Chinese consumer goods!!!


    And do you naively think that it is thanks to this oil pipeline that the XUAR is flourishing?

    Quote: NOMAD
    And stocking up on our flea market!! With the introduction of the customs union, a crisis began in China! That's it - cash flow has decreased!!!


    In 2012, the volume of bilateral trade with China amounted to $23,9 billion, and it is planned to increase it to 50 billion by 2015.
    http://www.bnews.kz/ru/news/post/154368/
    By the way, in 2010 the trade volume amounted to 20 billion. As you can see, trade with China is only growing.

    Quote: NOMAD
    a regulation was issued regarding Russian chicken, but Ukrainian chicken was banned!!!!


    They could also ban the Russian one.
  57. NOMAD
    +1
    26 August 2013 21: 41
    Sorry ZYMRAN! And what goods in XUAR are they already giving for our tengushki???? All goods at our Almaty flea market are produced in this area! And these consumer goods are intended for our market! Continental China does not need such goods in such quantities! Our shuttles brought so much money there that a whole industry arose there! Starting with shopping tours, ending with restaurants and cafes for shoppers! Now times have changed there! I mean XUAR! And trade turnover with China naturally remains stable due to the fact that Kazakhstan increasingly exports its hydrocarbons and raw materials to China, and China, respectively, equipment and food, etc.! As soon as the customs union arose! Prices at the flea market soared! This is an indicator that they began to import less goods, and to some extent, smuggling has decreased accordingly! This also applies to Chinese goods imported from Kyrgyzstan and their consumer goods!! That is, at the border of the Customs Union they began to take a tougher approach to this matter!! Russia simply demanded that Kazakhstan restore order! Since customs duties now go to the general budget!! As for Russian and Belarusian goods, they can be banned only as a last resort! According to a certain procedure! After a complaint to the CU commission! And then these countries can appeal this decision to the CU arbitration court!!! What another country that is not part of the CU cannot do!!!
  58. Sashko07
    0
    28 August 2013 22: 05
    Quote: Tamerlanf1
    I am sure that if Ukraine does not join the Customs Union, then its products will not be on the shelves of Russian stores

    What are you going to eat? Chinese peaches, or milk substitutes from muho.s.r.a.n.s.k.a?

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

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