Russia is simply doomed to an alliance with Kazakhstan

The integration processes occurring in the post-Soviet space, especially the Eurasian Union emerging before our eyes - all this perfectly illustrates the desire of our countries for mutual integration. We have to complete what was started in previous years, that is, in essence, make an irreversible breakthrough in rapprochement between states, in approaching the moment when we can talk about the real creation of the Eurasian Union, which Nursultan Nazarbayev said prophetically back in 1994 m year Fortunately, this idea is becoming more and more popular in the Russian leadership.

We will also continue to make all possible efforts to implement this great idea, making our own contribution to the integration of our countries, which will help all of us to understand each other better at the public level, help establish a normal dialogue, as well as identify possible mutual misunderstandings and terminological inconsistency.

The problems that face our countries today belong to a common “family of challenges”:

Both Russia and Kazakhstan are building democracy, but so far democracy in both Russia and Kazakhstan is in the process of becoming, therefore, from time to time there is a danger of distorting this process both towards relapse of authoritarian tendencies and, conversely, towards chaos and uncontrollability.

Our Presidents, in a sense, have the same situation: both Vladimir Putin and Nursultan Nazarbayev are popular in their homeland democratic rulers who are concerned about the long-term stability in their countries, and at the same time, the rapprochement between all the states of the former Soviet Union .

It is very important to note here that the personal relationship between Vladimir Putin and Nursultan Nazarbayev is, perhaps, the best.

In other words, it is becoming more and more obvious that both Putin and Nazarbayev are taking Eurasian positions and are following the Eurasian course. It is impossible to follow this course alone, since it is about the rapprochement between different countries, peoples, cultures, economies, social systems. These processes are different in Kazakhstan and Kazakhstan, but their general rhythm and general character are very similar.

Therefore, it is becoming more and more obvious that the key to stable development of both Russia and Kazakhstan is only the continuation of the Eurasian policy by our countries. And here it is impossible not to note the special role of President Nazarbayev, and the efforts that Nursultan Abishevich undertakes on the new integration of the Eurasian space and on giving the whole CIS a completely new meaning.

There is no doubt that the integration of the post-Soviet space from now on will go more intensively, successfully, positively and creatively. And this will affect, first of all, the rapprochement between Moscow and Astana, because the key to the integration of the entire post-Soviet space lies precisely in the axis Moscow-Astana.

It should be emphasized that now the Russian-Kazakh relations, and the relations between our presidents on a personal level, as well as their unanimity in restructuring the post-Soviet space are the key to political stability of all CIS countries. Russia has the economic, political, strategic, diplomatic, social and cultural potential that is able to support President Nazarbayev himself in domestic politics. In particular, the rapprochement of Kazakhstan with Russia turns the factor of the Russian population, which in other circumstances could even be a destabilizing force, into a factor that will serve to strengthen Nazarbayev’s position in the domestic political sphere. The rapprochement of Kazakhstan with Russia deliberately provides Nazarbayev with the support of the entire Russian population.

At the same time, if Russia's common economic projects are implemented, if Russia fully and completely, as it is doing now, realizes the need for a strategic partnership with Kazakhstan, even at the cost of some concessions on tariff policy, on customs issues, Russia will acquire Kazakhstan is such a reliable strategic partner, which has no equal in the post-Soviet space.

Therefore, it seems to me that Russia is simply doomed to an alliance with Kazakhstan, and the political future of both the President of Kazakhstan and the President of Russia throughout this time will be connected precisely with the success of the realization of political integration between our states.

Comments

[Constantine]

An interesting post, but the name "Russia is simply doomed to an alliance with Kazakhstan" I would change to "Kazakhstan is simply doomed to an alliance with Russia." "Weight", nevertheless, is very different for states.

[Ruslan_F38]

I think that both countries need each other. But are they doomed? I don’t think so. Imagine a politician like Yushchenko coming to power in Kazakhstan in the wake of the next orange revolution and we will have relations both with Ukraine of that time, however, and this one, since nothing has changed much since Yanukovych came.

[ayyildiz]

Any cooperation should have an economic basis. Without it, all talk of alliances will remain only dreams.

[Baboon]

Still, Kazakhstan, unlike Ukraine, does not have access to the seas (the Caspian is a bit of a different sea), and railways go either through China or through Russia. So, in any case, Kazakhstan needs to cooperate with someone.

[Semurg]

Quote: Babon

Still, Kazakhstan, unlike Ukraine, does not have access to the seas (the Caspian is a bit of a different sea), and railways go either through China or through Russia. So, in any case, Kazakhstan needs to cooperate with someone.

This was definitely noticed by the inland country and this is one of the reasons for our efforts to establish good neighborly relations around Kazakhstan (all the same, it is more comfortable to live in good neighborly relations). Railways are now completing the construction of the railway line to Turkmenistan-Iran with access to the Persian Gulf. the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars branch with access to the Mediterranean Sea. In general, the leadership is trying to turn our shortcoming into our dignity as a transport hub and intermediary between the west-east, south-north.

[Drummer]

Yes, that is the main reason.

[Kadet_KRAK]

And Ukraine, and Belarus, and even stupid sisters of the Baltic republics)))

[Kasym]

Konstantin, good evening! I agree with you. But there is one very interesting point: If Russia now takes on the role of "main integrator", then all other CIS countries (especially the opposition of these countries), I am not talking about the West, will begin to accuse Russia of imposing a "new USSR", "loss sovereignty "," Great Russian chauvinism ", etc. etc. ... And so "Nazarbayev is the main engine of integration", etc. means, as it were, that there is nothing to "blame" Russia for. That is, I would like to say that the role that Nazarbayev (Kazakhstan) has "assumed" is beneficial for Russia.
A doomed or not. Economically, even very much. It is because of this that Nazarbayev made his statement about the Eurasian Union. Even then it became clear that most of the enterprises would rise.
About Nazarbayev. In Kazakhstan, 40% of the population (and maybe even more) is not indigenous. This suggests that whoever comes to power, he will be obliged to read it - whether he wants it or not. This politician will be obliged to meet their requirements and desires, he cannot even come to power without their approval and participation - no one has canceled the elections. 40% is too significant a figure in the elections, you must agree. So the NATIONALIST practically does not get through to power. There are no national movements or parties in our country - they are prohibited. By the way, I think as a poet Nazarbayev (I mean 40% of us.) Made a statement: "Kazakhstan will integrate with Russia as far as Russia wants and can" (approximately so).

[M. Peter]

And what is wrong? Indeed, in fact, the initiative came from Nazarbayev, who was in fact the only head of the former fraternal republics of the Union, who was against collapse.

[serge-68-68]

The problem is only one thing - is Kazakhstan doomed to an alliance with Russia? Will he maintain good relations with his neighbor after Nazarbayev's inevitable departure? How strong is this alliance, built largely on the price of "some concessions" from Russia? And weren't some loud anti-Russian statements of some Kazakh politicians a "touchstone"? Do they not indicate that relations between Russia and Kazakhstan are based only on good relations between Nazarbayev and Putin, as well as on the same Russian concessions?

[Ruslan_F38]

I agree with you. Nazarbayev understands that without the support of Russia he will not last long, he is several times smarter than Ukrainian politicians, and Putin needs allies, both instability and increased Western influence on the post-Soviet space are disadvantageous.

[smile]

serge-68-68
On this issue I absolutely agree with you. Especially when you consider that there are no similar "touchstones" on the part of our politicians, and there have never been, and if someone had been honored, he would have been immediately pulled up by the country's leadership ... I didn't notice something like that there ... maybe looked bad? It somehow resembles a game with only one goal ...
Given this, the term "doom" looks like a baaaal stretch .....

[Flooding]

Quote: serge-68-68

The problem is only one thing - is Kazakhstan doomed to an alliance with Russia? Will he maintain good relations with his neighbor after Nazarbayev's inevitable departure? How strong is this alliance, built largely on the price of "some concessions" from Russia?

+++ Exactly. Russia is really doomed to expand and deepen its influence in the world, and even more so in the territories of its immediate interests. It is a fact.
But is it possible to blindly believe in reciprocity in this matter? I really want to hope, but hope in politics is not the most weighty argument.

[Semurg]

Quote: Flood

Quote: serge-68-68

The problem is only one thing - is Kazakhstan doomed to an alliance with Russia? Will he maintain good relations with his neighbor after Nazarbayev's inevitable departure? How strong is this alliance, built largely on the price of "some concessions" from Russia?

+++ Exactly. Russia is really doomed to expand and deepen its influence in the world, and even more so in the territories of its immediate interests. It is a fact.
But is it possible to blindly believe in reciprocity in this matter? I really want to hope, but hope in politics is not the most weighty argument.

The hope, reinforced by mutual interests and the understanding that Russians and Kazakhs live side by side and are not going to go anywhere in politics, is a very, very powerful argument. And politicians who do not understand this very quickly leave the political arena.

[Flooding]

Quote: Semurg

And politicians who do not understand this very quickly leave the political arena.

Or play a miserable song on the strings of nationalism.
We know, we know how they quickly disappear from the political horizon.
All the negligent, all the money-grubbers, all the incompetent, all purchased, have already disappeared ...
Tired of listing. Their name is Legion.

[Semurg]

All politicians in bulk can be written down in Natsik, money-grubbers, bought very pessimistically (I don’t understand how discouraged or stigmatized)

[Flooding]

Quote: Semurg

All politicians in bulk can be written down in Natsik, money-grubbers, bought very pessimistically (I don’t understand how discouraged or stigmatized)

Unjustified optimism can be much more dangerous in this situation.

[Semurg]

Quote: Flood

Quote: Semurg

All politicians in bulk can be written down in Natsik, money-grubbers, bought very pessimistically (I don’t understand how discouraged or stigmatized)

Unjustified optimism can be much more dangerous in this situation.

The eternal dispute is half full or empty.

[Flooding]

Quote: Semurg

The eternal dispute is half full or empty.

In this case, the criteria of domestic optimism are inappropriate.
In big politics, you always have to be prepared for the worst and calculate the worst-case scenarios.
Because, you know, too many warring parties are involved.
Do you think the author of the immortal phrase "Si vis pacem, para bellum" was a pessimist?

[valokordin]

Quote: Semurg

The hope, reinforced by mutual interests and the understanding that Russians and Kazakhs live side by side and are not going to go anywhere in politics, is a very, very powerful argument. And politicians who do not understand this very quickly leave the political arena.

But Slavic Ukraine does not understand this, or this is the business of the Ukrainian leadership.

[Semurg]

Where are Kuchma, Kravchuk, Yushchenko, Tymoshenko? Slavic Ukraine does not fly away to the moon and with Russia they want it; they do not want relations with time will be built.

[Docklishin]

CIS - Customs Union - a single economic space - the Eurasian Union. God forbid, what would happen !!!

[Taidrem]

And if the relationship goes well, you look and grow into something more! In some great empire, in which all peoples coexist in peace and harmony, and where their cultures will be preserved and not assimilated as in other unions and states!

[Nomad]

Quote: Constantine

"Weight", nevertheless, is very different for states.

But the border is the same - 7500 km on flat terrain. In short, both states are "doomed" to an alliance, or rather, they are intended.

[Constantine]

Quote: Nomad

But the border is the same - 7500 km on flat terrain. In short, both states are "doomed" to an alliance, or rather, they are intended.

Nobody argues. It’s just that my remark was written in defiance of the author, who, despite the positive nature of the article, described Kazakhstan almost as a savior of Russia I have nothing against it, whatever amusement, but in this case, it would be necessary to slightly shift the rhetoric to a more equal or something

[IRBIS]

Quote: Nomad

But the border is the same - 7500 km on flat terrain.

And it would be better to arrange this border according to all the rules. With PCB and barbed wire. And then talk about "friendship" and mutual understanding.

[IRBIS]

Quote: IRBIS

And it would be better to arrange this border according to all the rules. With PCB and barbed wire. And then talk about "friendship" and mutual understanding.

Judging by my "minuses" for this comment, how the Kazakhs do not want a well-equipped border with Russia! Oh, how they don't want to! Why would it be so suddenly, eh? Can someone say something intelligible? Only about "brotherhood" and other snot is not necessary - there is only a sound and mercantile calculation.
But the border is needed, yesterday it is needed. Only now I would also add machine-gun towers, just in case.

[Kasym]

Alexander (Irbis). Although I did not give you minus, but to me your comment. I do not like . What about thorns, tell those citizens of our countries whose relatives live on other sides of the border. You forget that about 5 mil live in Kazakhstan. Slavs, and in Russia, Kazakhs are among the top ten most numerous peoples of the Russian Federation.
And about the economy and talk already tired. Half of the Urals uses Kazakhstani yol. Krasnoyarsk alum. The plant receives Kazakhstani raw materials. Every third loaf of bread in Moscow is baked from Kazakhs. grains (gluten is higher than us and you are forced to mix ours with yours). Yran, for example, is little mined in Russia. So far, Russia has held onto the council. stocks. Kazakhstan was the main supplier of this type of raw materials to the USSR, fortunately, this industry is actively developing us and we have reached the first place in the world in production. Rare earth and non-ferrous metals. Rural economy - UNESCO estimates that land resources of Kazakhstan are able to feed up to 1 billion people.

[essenger]

Dear Kasym, do not take offense at your leisure to look at the latest demographic data somehow. You are writing data here twenty years ago.

[Kasym]

There are 17 million in Kazakhstan. Of these, 10 mil. Kazakhs. It turns out that 41% of the non-indigenous population. 5 million Slavs - Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Poles, Greeks. Where am I wrong?

[essenger]

11 million Kazakhs, this is almost 65 percent
Orthodox Greeks but not Slavs, by the way.
Russian 3,7 million, Ukrainians 300 thousand, Belarusians no more than 60 thousand, Poles a maximum of 30 thousand. Total: 4,1 million
The remaining Turkic peoples: Uzbeks almost 500 thousand, Uigurs more than 200 thousand, Tatars 200 thousand, Turks 100 thousand, Azerbaijanis 90 thousand,

Germans 180 thousand and Koreans 100 thousand

[Kasym]

At the time of the collapse of the USSR, there were about 6,5 million Kazakhs, and suddenly an increase of 70%? I know one of us, a foreman, 10 years as in the Republic of Kazakhstan, and Kazakh by passport. Therefore, I underestimate the data. I know one girl from Kazakhstan, according to the passport, a Russian woman, but she works here. I know one Jew, according to the passport of the city of Australia, and business is here. Therefore, I overestimate.
Well, okay, this is statistics.

[essenger]

Yes, I agree, there should be more Uzbeks and Uighurs. But, they took the path of voluntary assimilation. I think you should not bother them)))

[Yeraz]

Quote: Essenger

oh, they took the path of voluntary assimilation. I think you should not bother them)))

the main thing is to remain part of the Turkic world.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Kasym

I know one of us, a foreman, 10 years as in the Republic of Kazakhstan, and Kazakh by passport. Therefore, I underestimate the data. I know one girl from Kazakhstan, according to the passport, a Russian woman, but she works here. I know one Jew, according to the passport of the city of Australia, and business is here.

Absolutely right. For some reason, migrant workers never voice the numbers actually located in Kazakhstan, but only those with a Kazakh passport. In my environment there are enough Barnaulites, Omsk citizens and Muscovites who actually live in Astana, having received a residence permit. They travel to Russia extremely rarely; they are not going to move to the Russian Federation. Seven years ago, employees of the Kazakh embassy in Moscow called me the figure of 100 thousand Russians who received a residence permit in Kazakhstan over the past few years (the passport remains Russian). How many of them are now in the KZ - no one has ever officially called. Apparently, in order not to strain the situation on the part of some Kazakhs and not to hurt the feelings of the official Kremlin.
Uzbeks en masse enroll in Kazakhs, and then mow down under the natives of Shymkent :)))) There is a good friend - an Uzbek (a native of Kostanay), married to a Kazakh woman, children are recorded as Kazakhs. But he really does not look like Sart in any way - his face is almost "Mongolian", and the mentality is ordinary Kazakh. So in his case, it is the return of nationality.
I have not met "repainted" Uighurs (except that Karim Massimov ), Uighurs do not particularly suffer from this, unlike the Uzbeks.
In short, if you count the Russians with Russian passports, but with a residence permit in Kazakhstan, then the figure will be significant. I generally don’t really trust our last census. Even Makash Tatimov, who became famous on the basis of counting the Kazakhs 20 years ago, and he doubts that we really gained 65% of the Kazakhs. I constantly travel to work in the north of Kazakhstan - I still have the majority of Russians. In some cities, in Rudny, for example, there are 10 percent of Kazakhs (maximum), the rest are Slavs and Germans. Only in Astana and Karaganda did the national proportion substantially change. Yes, you yourself know this very well.

[xetai9977]

And who are the sarts?

[Semurg]

Quote: xetai9977

And who are the sarts?

Without pretending to be true, the population of present-day Uzbekistan was relatively recently divided into Sarts and Uzbeks, with percentages of about 80 to 20, where 20% are nomadic Uzbeks, 80% are localized farmers (seemingly close to Tajiks), and the Uzbeks seemed to be the rulers and the army of Sarts were a taxable population. Under Soviet rule, everyone was recorded by the Uzbeks and the Sarts disappeared like this, but there are other opinions about the Sarts.

[Setrac]

Quote: Kasym

UNESCO estimates that Kazakhstan’s land resources can feed up to 1 billion people.

According to the same data, Russia can provide the population of the entire planet.

[Drummer]

In fact, Russia purchases grain in Kazakhstan, and not vice versa.

[Marek Rozny]

and soon also meat))) in the near future up to 20 thousand tons will be sent annually for export to the Russian Federation. A great deal of work is being done for this - from the purchase of pedigree producers and the increase in their best breeds of horses and sheep to the mass construction of meat processing plants. getting ready for meat expansion into the Russian market)
that's just the bird we have so far things are not very. Well, okay - this is not our horse)
Here are the Russian alcohol barriers to overcome! but there they have a strong vodka lobby.

but what is not clear is why our chocolate manufacturers can’t enter the northern market. although, apparently, it is easier for Russians to buy crappy, but cheap Ukrainian chocolate.

[sasha.28blaga]

Quote: Constantine

"Weight", nevertheless, is very different for states.

Under the current conditions of the existence of an alliance in relation to other states of the World, the shortage of one state is replaced by the redundancy of another, which means that talking about "weight" in this case is at least incorrect.

[Constantine]

Quote: sasha.28blaga

Under the current conditions of the existence of an alliance in relation to other states of the World, the shortage of one state is replaced by the redundancy of another, which means that talking about "weight" in this case is at least incorrect.

It is quite correct. By the combination of advantages, Russia is far ahead of Kazakhstan. Army, Resources, Territory, Energy, Industry, Scientific Potential, Weight in the region, Weight in the foreign policy arena.

Although, you can take it as you wish

[sasha.28blaga]

The geopolitical location of Kazakhstan, as you rightly noted, in my opinion, replaces many of the leading potential of Russia, as well as Kazakhstan is not a completely non-leading country in the field of resources, industry, agricultural, energy.
Sincerely.

[Constantine]

Quote: sasha.28blaga

The geopolitical location of Kazakhstan, as you rightly noted, in my opinion, replaces many of the leading potential of Russia, as well as Kazakhstan is not a completely non-leading country in the field of resources, industry, agricultural, energy.
Sincerely.

The feeling that you are from Kazakhstan does not leave me. Oh well.

Well, the entire periodic table, and even in the Russian volume, Kazakhstan is definitely not.

The industrial complex of Kazakhstan is not more powerful than the Russian one.

In the Energy sector, despite the presence of nuclear power plants, Kazakhstan is clearly inferior to the Russian Federation in terms of the amount of energy produced, as well as in the potential for increasing production. Kazakhstan is not able to build the same nuclear power plants without serious help from outside.

And here is the geopolitical location. Kazakhstan, like the Russian Federation, borders with China and has access to the Caspian. Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, of course, have their own value, but not so much as to cover the value of all neighboring states of Russia.

I don’t want to belittle the merits of Kazakhstan, but I won’t let them inflate them to the detriment of my country. As a result, we all find ourselves in one country, and therefore the dispute does not make much sense

[essenger]

Quote: Constantine

As a result, we’ll all be in one country,

Well, this is a big question, I would say so.

[Constantine]

Quote: Essenger

Well, this is a big question, I would say so.

If Russia throws off external control completely, then this is inevitable. Even if the project does not work out now, after a while Kazakhstan itself will ask. This is verified by history. This has always been and will be, at least as long as Russia exists. And fragmentation, with "living" Russia, is a temporary factor.

[Dani]

don’t put many of yourself, you have a mess in Russia, Caucasians do what they want, gay and live at home, skinheads, Americans share what they want

[xetai9977]

I, too, doubt very much the prospect of a revival of the Union. The conditions and historical realities are no longer the same.

[xetai9977]

Indeed, God gave Russia EVERYTHING - vast territory, super-rich mineral resources. But why the standard of living of the people to put it mildly not at the level of developed countries?

[Druid]

Quote: serge-68-68

Will he keep good relations with his neighbor after the inevitable departure of Nazarbayev?

It depends on the successor, but in any case, Kazakhstan is looking for and will look for alternative ways of exporting resources.

Quote: serge-68-68

as well as all on the same Russian concessions?

Um, what kind of concessions are we talking about? Again, the myth that the older brother sacrifices everything for the younger? Kazakhstan is in a better position than all CIS countries, has a vast territory and large reserves of minerals from coal, oil and to gold.
This is how I understood the ode and cover for the dictators "Both Russia and Kazakhstan are building democracy, but so far democracy in both Russia and Kazakhstan is in the process of becoming, therefore, from time to time there is a danger of distorting this process both towards relapse of authoritarian tendencies and, conversely, towards chaos and uncontrollability."In Russia, if not Putin, then everything is frustrating, but in Kazakhstan, the father of the nation Nazarbayev, the feeling that the nations of the former USSR are directly hammered into their heads that they are incapable of anything and they need shepherds like rams. Only shepherds are also not from Mars, but from mothers, so what other idiots gave birth to? Russia itself became the brake on the development and strengthening of the CIS with a return to the totalitarian model, and Russia is unlikely to become democratic in the coming years, in the foreseeable future, accordingly, changes for the better in neighboring states will repel them and their new leadership from Russia and Putin. Moscow understands this very well, therefore, they support and will support only their own kind - authoritarian czars, which becomes a time bomb, because the population of neighboring countries is not as docile as the Russians and will not stand up first, after which a change of regime and leadership will lead to these states only to escape from an alliance with Russia.
We all love Russia, but she’s like that mother-in-law, or rather her leadership — let her into her house, and she will begin to constantly get nervous, trying to establish her own order in her own house with her son-in-law henpecked (Russians)

[smile]

Druid
Well hello .... what is the totalitarianism of Russia? A choice with terminology would be more careful, huh?
I almost collapsed from the oak when I saw through the rotten pedagogy the following golden words:

“Historically, the concept of“ totalitarian state ”(Italian stato totalitario) appeared in the early 1920s to characterize the regime of Benito Mussolini. The totalitarian state was characterized by powers of power not limited by law, the elimination of constitutional rights and freedoms, repression against dissidents, the militarization of public life [ 5] The jurists of Italian fascism and German Nazism used the term in a positive way, while their critics used it negatively. [6] In the West during the Cold War, rhetoric was adopted that tried to use any common features of Stalinism and fascism to unite them under one sign of totalitarianism. This model was widely used in anti-communist propaganda. "

Accordingly, all your other arguments are based on an initially false premise ... and they are false initially ....
Russia loves all of you, but you, like a capricious daughter-in-law, having come to someone else’s house (well, you can't get bigger into a smaller one) with a bunch of hungry children that you initially set up against your husband and his family, require everything only for yourself and your offspring, trying to establish their rules and get preferences ... which you did not even dream about in your shield house on the settlements ... there are such daughters-in-law. you know ... they play booty in front of her husband. stating, but you won’t buy me a fur coat from a cat from overseas, I’ll go to Vaska, he promised me a box of monpasie .... :)))
In general, please do not compare us with anyone and we will not compare you .... is it really impossible to calmly discuss the article without trying to spit in our direction, eh?

[Setrac]

Quote: Druid

We all love Russia

You are a liar, he loves Russia, ha, go love America, there is democracy

Quote: Druid

with son-in-law henpecked (Russians)

Violation of the rules of the site.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

we can talk about the real creation of the Eurasian Union, which Nursultan Nazarbayev prophetically declared back in 1994. A wise and far-sighted politician .. I always liked it. (Back in the 90s when there was dancing on the ruins of the USSR, he modestly and sadly kept quiet knowing what was going on ..)

[saag]

Quote: Druid

Kazakhstan is in a better position than all CIS countries, has a vast territory and large reserves of minerals from coal, oil and to gold.

And what do you think is the share of Kazakhstan in all this wealth?

[Ruslandeth]

I think not very big. the Chinese will have a bit of pain, it seems to me.

multi-vector and rushing)

[Alibekulu]

Quote: saag

And what do you think is the share of Kazakhstan in all this wealth?

Hmm ... another "well-meaning reader"
Just like in that joke:
The phone rings: Brezhnev picks up the phone.
- But there is no meat in the shops! ..- a sarcastic voice is heard. Leonid Ilyich sighs and hangs up. After a minute, the phone rings again.
- And the meat is in stores-
Without listening, Brezhnev hangs up the phone.
In a minute - again a call.
- But there is no meat! ..
- Would be silent! There was no bread with you!..

[saag]

Quote: Druid

Russia is unlikely to become democratic in the coming years

here was such a direct democracy in the 90s, do you mean this hour? And in general, since the days of the Novgorod veche, there are no such countries in the world, what the Western media broadcast about democracy, etc. this is such a psychological treatment of gullible people who subconsciously dream of some kind of miracle, in the KZ there is such a mantra - "we will live like in the Emirates", which has been repeated for twenty years, but there is no sense from it, and with democracy, it is like the elusive Joe, as it were but nobody saw her

[romb]

This "mantra" was no longer mentioned ten years ago. We have long understood that relying only on our natural resources is nothing more than a deceptive illusion that leads the country directly and irrevocably into the category of a raw material appendage of the technologically developed countries of the world. Our country needed time to get a certain temporary carte blanche for the accumulation of political, financial and economic capital. The most interesting stage in the development of the state is just beginning.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: saag

in KZ there is such a mantra - "we will live like in the Emirates", twenty years as repeated

I have a strong belief that some of the Russian Kazakhstanis still live in 1995 ...
Saag, if you are not aware, then we have long been talking not about the "Emirati" model, but for a long time they have been investing money from the oil and gas sector in the manufacturing industry, infrastructure projects, and the surplus is sterilized in the National Fund. So - good morning.

[xetai9977]

And when viewed from the side, it is clear that Kazakhstan has achieved great success in the economy.

[scientist]

Unfortunately, Kazakhstan has existed as an independent state for just over 20 years. And it owes its existence to Russia, China and the United States. Russia benefits from stability in Kazakhstan, as it is a reliable political and military ally, + the operation of training grounds and Baikonur for a symbolic payment. China and the United States have very favorable conditions for the extraction of natural resources, primarily hydrocarbons. Naturally, all these political and economic concessions are to the detriment of the interests of their own people, but the political elite, of course, has its share. The presence of huge natural resources, with the lowest population density, almost complete absence of its own production and a very "ridiculous" army (poorly equipped, technically illiterate, without combat experience) makes the existence of such a state as Kazakhstan virtually impossible. And if you consider that almost all Kazakhstani leaders, except for Nazarbayev, have absolutely no state thinking, + the traditional clannishness of the Kazakhs, gigantic corruption in all spheres of society, an intimidated law enforcement system working under the orders of "respected people" - bays, a national policy aimed at domination of the "titular" nation and the squeezing out of all other peoples, including the Russians, then in essence it becomes clear that the Kazakh state can only be preserved if there is a reliable political and military "roof". And this "roof" of course can only be Russia, because if it is China, the Kazakhs will very quickly cease to exist as a people. Kazakhs are far from being Uighurs who have been fighting the Chinese authorities for several generations. Therefore, Nazarbayev is doing everything for Eurasian integration; this is not an ambition, but a task of people's survival. Many politicians in Kazakhstan do not understand him, because they are arrogant and get drunk, so the President is in a hurry, all the same age. If he does not manage to make the integration process irreversible, Kazakhstan will simply be torn to pieces.

[Alibekulu]

So, you are by no means a son or grandson Pensioners
Also started for health, finished for peace ..

Quote: scientist

makes the existence of a state like Kazakhstan virtually impossible.

Aha “According to the laws of physics, a bumblebee should not fly, but he does not know about it and flies anyway” ..
Oh my We urgently need to tell our people, otherwise you know, we’ve been living for 20 years as we didn’t know!?!

Quote: scientist

a very "funny" army (poorly equipped, technically illiterate, without combat experience)

- No comments..

Quote: scientist

all Kazakh leaders, except Nazarbayev, have absolutely no state thinking

You can even call them "expert" damn ..

Quote: scientist

+ traditional clan Kazakhs

Are you unconventional ?? !!

Quote: scientist

a policy aimed at dominating the "titular" nation and squeezing out all other peoples

Why direct and extrude ?? !! If you already do well yourself ?? !!

Quote: scientist

preserving the Kazakh state is possible only if there is a reliable political and military "roof".

Yeah, would you patched up your roof or something ?! !!
Something lately Kazakhs are more and more persistently offered a "roof"
And, quite definite analogies clearly come up ..

Quote: scientist

Kazakhstan is simply torn to pieces.

Guys, you would have offered Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan a "roof" ... they were "worried" about them ..
If you think that everything is bad with us, then they have a "sapsem" seams

[essenger]

Quote: scientist

Kazakhstan owes its existence to Russia, China and the USA.

Quote: scientist

it will be China, then the Kazakhs will very quickly cease to exist as a people.

Decide first, it seems like a mess in your head.

[xetai9977]

scientist I do not think that the Kazakhs will agree with you.

[Thirsty for wind]

Strange article.
Getting along with Russia is easy at the moment.
Spoiled and spoiled for decent relationships, in principle, a lot and do not need, do not build podlyank and behave decently, all that.
In my opinion, it is a very good moment to drag relations from "good-neighborly" to "friendly", and the AHL in vain slows down IMHO.

[avt]

Quote: Thirsty for the Wind

Strange article.

Not, it’s completely empty for itself and the stupid propaganda about world peace. But among the Bolsheviks it was somehow clearer in the proletariat of all countries — unite, a very specific appeal to a specific address. Well, what do you want from Dugin? Balabol. Here is a previous article on this topic published on the site was much more interesting, but there is nothing to discuss. Artistic whistle from Dugin.

[baltika-18]

Quote: avt

Artistic Whistle from Dugin

I’ll support, Shark. I minus the article.
Moreover, I believe that Eurasianism, in the Dugin understanding and in the understanding of current politicians, both ours and Kazakhs, is a way to nowhere. Deadlock. Nothing viable and long-term will come of it.

[saag]

Quote: Alibekulu

Hmm ... another "well-meaning reader"

Well, give a figure at least for oil? It will be interesting to see. for example, the share of Kazakhstan in TCO, in Karachaganak, who owns Mangistaumunaigas, and what is the share in the Kashagan project?

[Semurg]

Quote: saag

Quote: Alibekulu

Hmm ... another "well-meaning reader"

Well, give a figure at least for oil? It will be interesting to see. for example, the share of Kazakhstan in TCO, in Karachaganak, who owns Mangistaumunaigas, and what is the share in the Kashagan project?

By shares in different projects of Kazakhstanis or Kazakhstan? If Kazakhstanis are their own business, if Kazakhstan, according to me, the state needs to go out to their commerce and take its own through various taxes to the budget (otherwise there are so many quasi-state structures that "the devil will break his leg" is purely a feeder and theft). For me, the function of the state is establishing the rules of the game and arbitration and not participating in commerce. On the topic of the article, we will not fly to the moon and the Russians will not evaporate, we are doomed to live side by side (to live in the same house, to be friends at home, or to conflict) it all depends on you and me and on the people for which we will vote tomorrow. And it may already be enough to predict the collapse of Kazakhstan. Is it possible that some of the members of the forum really want this so much that they, like hunters, write about it from topic to topic, some painful desire so that the neighbors become crappy (it might be better to be glad that between millions of gaster there are still no Kazakhs or does it infuriate you? and for self-satisfaction you also need Kazakhs in Gaster, what would you say here gave them independence, and that they made everything with it here in hectares sterah.

[saag]

Quote: scientist

And this "roof" of course can only be Russia, because if it is China, the Kazakhs will very quickly cease to exist as a people

The point is that the orientation in KZ is more precisely towards China, the USA, the EU, Turkey, there is of course cooperation with Russia, but with this multi-vector approach you never know where such a "partner" will turn.

[Semurg]

The thing is that the orientation in KZ is more precisely towards China, the USA, the EU, Turkey, there is of course cooperation with Russia, but with this multi-vector approach you never know where such a "partner" will turn [/ quote]
If we are talking about the economy, then export is mainly to China, Europe, Turkey (but Russia does not need our traditional export goods, but they themselves are trying to get other items like electric locomotives, helicopters, wagons, etc. and find new markets for them) If politics is the closest relationship between the CU, CSTO and the CIS, then this is with Russia, but ignoring China-USA-EU is somehow stupid and Russia doesn’t ignore it. Or do you mean that it’s bad direct contacts with them (multi-vector), do you need all contacts through Moscow? Then we must directly write independence to the Kazakhs, we will decide for them. And the fact that the interests and views of Kazakhstan and Russia do not always coincide is that you normally need to negotiate in a neighborly way (or you decide everything on your street for your neighbors and threaten to mutilate them if they communicate with other neighbors not through you)

[xetai9977]

Each country has the right to independently decide with whom it is beneficial to deal with. Instructions from the side are inappropriate.

[smile]

saag
Tell me, is this really so? Your Kazakhstani colleagues, in my opinion, do not agree with this. I would not want that. But it would be interesting to know why you think so. This is an absolutely serious question, without any sub-flicker.

[Kasym]

Smail. Vladimir good day ! Of course, this is not so. From these countries there are investments, technologies, etc. .
Here, for example, is what our security officer told me. To the FSB staff (RUSSIA) in Kazakhstan to provide any assistance and assistance. What to add to this?

[smile]

Kasym
Well, I know about the relevant agreements between our special services ... the rest is annoying ... it would be interesting to listen to what saag had in mind .. I hope he is mistaken ...

[Kasym]

Vladimir Relations with the USA. You can say pragmatic - business and nothing personal. But there was not a single visit by the US president to Kazakhstan. After Kazakhgate Nazarbayev, the nose turns off from the United States. But he welcomes investments and technologies from there (assembly of electric locomotives in the USA, oil industry-Chevron, etc.).
Relationship with China. Here Nazarbayev showed himself as a diplomat and politician with a big letter. He is one of the first politicians to foresee the imminent rise of China. And from the very first day after the collapse of the USSR, he began to build relations with China. By the way, in early September, Xi Jinping (if I'm not mistaken, in short, 1 person of China) will visit Kazakhstan. Nazarbayev actually opened 2 railway lines and 2 auto roads (after the collapse of the USSR, 200 thousand tons of cargo passed through Kazakhstan, and now 20 miles - could be wrong), oil and gas pipeline. But in Kazakhstan, you will see few illegal Chinese. And at the same time, according to the statements of the Chinese media, the meetings of the leaders of China and Kazakhstan are the most frequent. We were the first to agree on our borders with the PRC. Kazakhstan was the first to submit an initiative to organize the SCO. "The PRC is ready to buy out all the raw materials from Kazakhstan and provide all this with cheap and long-term loans without restrictions." In short, our relationship is really good, which is what I wish for the others. But you will ask any Kazakh about the Union with China. Hear a lot of bad things - we have been at enmity throughout our history. Therefore, everything is unambiguous here.
But with Russia, we had everything. A common history, one state, mentality, language, common victories and hardships, a common economy and all kinds of infrastructure. But we, Kazakhstan, have too little population and huge opportunities because of the territory and its location. We need a strong and big Ally, as a guarantor of security and sovereignty; the foundation of the economy as a stable market. But at the same time, of course, this requires some sort of attitude towards the Allies. Such an Ally, except for Russia, cannot be China (unambiguously), the USA or Europe. The evidence of this is numerous organizations where the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation are included - the new Union is the crown to all (already in a year the documents should be ready). We will wait.

[Alex Bugur]

Nice to hear an adequate person!

[ed65b]

One thing pleases, there are no Kazakh guest workers in Russian cities. So work at home is enough and salaries. Of course you need to make friends, but only be friends. And the TS and Evrazes for our hucksters are primarily needed. What good is it for me? zero. I do not see Kazakh goods in stores in principle.

[alexng]

There is always a sense in unification, since for a self-sufficient economy, the necessary population should be at least 250 million people. So your comment is somewhat off topic. Or are you for the program of fragmentation of competing countries for USkal? But the Americans are pursuing such a goal, to prevent this threshold limit from being crossed. So the Yankees will climb out of their skin in order to prevent this, and the Internet (this does not apply to you) will help them with this zealous perseverance.

[ed65b]

And the fig we need him? We already had experience cohabiting. Again hear go to your Russia Urus corn and we feed you? let them live in their yurts, drive rams across the steppe.

[essenger]

Quote: ed65b

And the fig we need him? We already had experience cohabiting. Again hear go to your Russia Urus corn and we feed you? let them live in their yurts, drive rams across the steppe.

I absolutely agree with you, let's live separately. Let the Russians hang out in the forest with the bears.

[xetai9977]

As they say forcibly sweet will not.

[alexng]

Quote: ed65b

Again hear go to your Russia Urus corn and we feed you?

These are just victims (executors of someone else's will) brought from outside the ideology. They were "sovereign", and most importantly, the ideologues of this psychological expansion ensured that the victim, who was persecuted, also took the bait. This can be seen in the comments on the forum. Is there really a circular degradation of the intellect in the post-Soviet space? A kind of psychosis controlled by Western puppeteers. Maybe it's enough to be puppets. This is called post hypnotic syndrome.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: alexneg

These are just victims (executors of someone else's will) brought from outside the ideology. They were "sovereign"

no one screams like that. not that Kazakhs, even Kazakhstani Russians, in my opinion, thwarted their voice, trying to convey to the Russians that they were brainwashing you.
only a chauvinist can send someone to Russia (of which, believe me, there are many). when a person openly speaks or writes that the Kazakhs are rams, the language is primitive, that Kazakhstan has no right to exist, such people will really be advised to leave for their historical Motherland. Well, what would the Russians do in Russia if the Kazakh spoke such diarrhea against Russian culture and Russia itself?
normal Russians, of which the vast majority, despite their total ignorance of the Kazakh language and culture, have an even attitude. in addition to Russians, Kazakhstan has a bunch of other nationalities.
stop believing in the nonsense about the Kazakh "kickers". not a single Russian respecting Kazakhs and Kazakhstan has ever faced "nationalists". Well, whoever is a shitty person by nature, he only runs into "nationalists".
and there are only a few real Nazis in KZ, and the Kazakhs themselves give them a head.

[xetai9977]

MAREK ROSNY is right. Unfortunately, there are enough of these "smart people" on the site. Sometimes you open an article and you learn a lot about yourself. And if you express disagreement, "crush", "destroy"
.

[tilovaykrisa]

Alliances, shmalyansy, it is necessary to strengthen the border with Kazakhstan, that's when the border will be locked and alliances can be concluded.

[Drummer]

Have you seen her, this border?

[Kibalchish]

Does Kazakhstan need it? This Alliance. I have not been there, but there are acquaintances who were. They say that KAZAKHSTAN LIVES RICHER AND FREEER than in Russia. And if not for Kazakh nationalism, they would have moved there permanently. They talked about clean cities, safety, cheap products. It's a shame that in many foreign countries Russians live better than in Russia.

[Ruslan_F38]

It's a shame that in many foreign countries Russians live better than in Russia.

Well, why are strangers and why is it better? We are not strangers, yes - no longer native, but also not strangers, the generation of the USSR is livingly and noticeably affecting all significant processes in the post-Soviet space. And about the fact that I’m better not arguing with you, this is the question, why is it better if you explain it easily?

[Andrey KZ]

And about the fact that I’m better not arguing with you, this is the question, why is it better if you explain it easily?

No, it’s not better, it’s better to say, no worse. In general, Kazakhstan and Russia are very similar, and the trouble we have is one-total corruption, we must fight this trouble, and not with each other.

[Flooding]

Quote: Kibalchish

It's a shame that in many foreign countries Russians live better than in Russia.

So it was and it will be so. It depends on whom you need from life.
But what other country will give you a feeling of involvement in Russia, a sense of Russianness?

[smile]

Kibalchish
Is there a contradiction in your statement?
on the one hand, "Russians live better in many foreign countries than in Russia,"
on the other: "if not for Kazakh nationalism we would have moved there for good"
You really would have decided ... :)))

By the way, large letters do not add credibility to an unreliable statement - this applies to "both freer and richer" ... different people live differently, what we have, what they have ... but such statements do not correspond to reality ...

[Zymran]

It used to be better. Cheap cars, gasoline, products, clothes. True, office equipment is more expensive, plus lower salaries.
Now - I doubt it very much. And it got worse as soon as they got into the Customs Union.
I believe that with the deepening of integration, the standard of living in Kazakhstan will fall more and more.

[ed65b]

Well duck who bothers? make a Kazakh name change. My neighbors moved them back from there for no money.

[IRBIS]

Quote: Kibalchish

And if not for Kazakh nationalism

Quite a trifle! So annoying ... And what kind of "understanding" are we talking about?

[Semurg]

Quote: Kibalchish

Does Kazakhstan need it? This Alliance. I have not been there, but there are acquaintances who were. They say that KAZAKHSTAN LIVES RICHER AND FREEER than in Russia. And if not for Kazakh nationalism, they would have moved there permanently. They talked about clean cities, safety, cheap products. It's a shame that in many foreign countries Russians live better than in Russia.

Kibalchish. I am amazed you for the second time write frankly seditious things and do not drown in the minuses, this is good already means not everyone here goes in a row with shouts of ur-ur

[avt]

Quote: Kibalchish

I have not been there, but there are acquaintances who were.

“I myself have not seen Paul, but don’t hope ...." And who argues, it’s good everywhere where we are not, and on a visit, but with money .... I heard such conversations, but not from those who are in the Republic of Kazakhstan, from those who traveled to the West. They come and begin to educate the unreasonable countrymen about we’ve gone to paradise, but the trouble is, you’ll get some vodka with them, then what’s sober on the mind of a drunk on his tongue, the picture for the most part changes somehow, especially among women, such memories begin there Naturally, this does not apply to the oligarch. Yes, now I practically don’t use it and I don’t hear more of such revelations, life must have been better for the better.

[Semurg]

Quote: avt

Quote: Kibalchish

I have not been there, but there are acquaintances who were.

“I myself have not seen Paul, but don’t hope ...." And who argues, it’s good everywhere where we are not, and on a visit, but with money .... I heard such conversations, but not from those who are in the Republic of Kazakhstan, from those who traveled to the West. They come and begin to educate the unreasonable countrymen about we’ve gone to paradise, but the trouble is, you’ll get some vodka with them, then what’s sober on the mind of a drunk on his tongue, the picture for the most part changes somehow, especially among women, such memories begin there Naturally, this does not apply to the oligarch. Yes, now I practically don’t use it and I don’t hear more of such revelations, life must have been better for the better.

Even during the union, an acquaintance went abroad, well, we came to him to hear about the trip and after a certain 100 grams he gave me. Sagat I am now the most unhappy person, when asked why I answered, “I was happy, I had a salary of 250 rubles, an apartment, a Muscovite car and considered prosperity, and now I went there and realized how bad we live. "

[avt]

Quote: Semurg

Even with the union, an acquaintance went abroad, well, we came to him to listen about the trip and after nth 100 grams he gave me. Sagat I am now the most miserable person,

A tourist, and in the USSR, he saw a shop window with sausage and burst into tears, similarly a distant relative was photographed against such a shop window in Paris at the same time. Yes, now, when they’re not going to the oligarch, but to earn a living for the best share, the hut, with rare exceptions, turns its backside. But they learn one lesson there clearly and do it while sober - keep smiling.

[saag]

Quote: Kibalchish

They said about clean cities

You ask the Almaty people about cleanliness compared to previous times

[Nomad]

Quote: scientist

"funny" army (poorly equipped, technically illiterate, without combat experience)

Well, here you are, another "scientist" ignoramus with his Ymper arrogance. He doesn't even know anything about the army, but he tries to talk about the "traditional clannishness" of the Kazakhs. I am generally silent about "squeezing out" other peoples, I am tired of arguing. In short, it is immediately clear that a person doesn’t know a damn thing about Kazakhstan, except for hackneyed cliches invented by the same, if I may say so, “scientists”, but Nasharu decided to play it smart in the hope that others know no more and will not object. Wouldn't be a shame, smart guy!

[Mikhail m]

Quote: Kibalchish

And if not for Kazakh nationalism

This is the root of evil. Russians are squeezed out of Kazakhstan as occupiers of their land. More than once I came across this at Baikonur in Soviet times, I can imagine what is happening there when a new generation has grown.

And this will affect, first of all, the rapprochement between Moscow and Astana

, the remaining territories of Russia and Kazakhstan will remain outside the process. Will I wait until Moscow is concerned about the fate of the Russians in the former Soviet republics, using its power and influence to improve their situation. In the meantime, even in its own territory, Moscow is only concerned about pumping money out of the regions.

[Kassim]

Hello everyone. Only fools can treat the Russian population in our country badly, they are illiterate people, I have many friends of Russians and Belarusians, we all came from the same country, yes this people have this stupid nationalism, I don’t deny it, but everyone who supports it just ignoramuses and slovens, we have a good president, he did a lot for the country, but he is not Hugo Chavez, I hope he will lead the country to integration, it is vital for us, and whoever says that it’s not necessary to do this is just ignoramuses and pests, And GDP is just fine , he is very popular with us! and as for the successor, I think his candidacy will be agreed with the Kremlin. with respect.

[Flooding]

Quote: Kassim

Only fools can treat the Russian population in our country badly, they are illiterate people, I have many friends of Russians and Belarusians, we all came from the same country, yes this people have this stupid nationalism, I do not deny

Kassim, unfortunately this world is so arranged that it doesn’t get any more stupid.
Sometimes I just wonder how many of them there are.

[smile]

Kassim
You just pleased me with your comment. If there are many people like you, then our countries really have a chance. Thank!

[Kasym]

Smail. Vladimir In Kazakhstan, such a majority, take a word. The creation of the CU and the new Union are supported by most of the population.
Say even more. I already wrote about this many times. Yes, there were very difficult times after the collapse of the USSR. Y our Natsiks had a reason to raise their voices. "Brothers-Slavs threw us. We got together in Belovezhskaya Pushcha and decided everything for us. They never respected us. Etc., etc.". But after a massive outflow, for one reason or another, the non-indigenous population and after many quarters began to appear in the cities. ghost houses and stopping factories and enterprises, then it dawned on our Nazis what would happen next. Parties and movements on nat. The sign was banned. The Assembly of Peoples of Kazakhstan was created (all national diasporas are represented in it, the congress once a year chaired by the president) and the provision on it was registered in the Constitution. Funds and premises for the ANC were allocated. Any interethnic issue can be raised at this assembly. For example, 1 seats in parliament are assigned to the ANC, 9 seats are forever assigned to the Kazakh and Russian diaspora, as the most numerous. The Russian language has become the language of international communication. The regulation on him was also registered in the Constitution. For example, on our banknotes, the dignity is spelled out in 2 languages, streets in cities are also indicated in 2 languages, all office work can be done in Russian or Kazakh (that's why officials are required to know 2 languages, but we Kazakhstanis are accused of the fact that our officials are mostly Kazakhs. Y us, if Russian knows the Kazakh language, then Kazakhs wear it in their hands. And in general, RUSSIAN in Kazakhstan is our 2 life.). So we think that we are international. the relationship looks good - and it really is.
Vladimir, I think, we are not just a chance. This is historically the case. If the SLAVES are in alliance with the TURKS, then no Chinese or Anglo-Saxons can dictate anything to us - they are obliged to read our opinion.

[smile]

Kasym
Well, God forbid ... but I honestly admit .... sluggish joy-read the statements of your compatriots ... you can treat me differently, but anyone who knows how to read can see that some comrades consider themselves infallible, having the right to water we are dirty, but when we receive surrenders, they immediately blame us as chauvinists and provocateurs .... they don’t even understand (I don’t think that they deliberately behave this way, that would be the height of arrogance. Let me consider them slow-witted rather than scum) their position is dishonest and immoral ....
Okay, let's hope for the best ....

[Setrac]

Quote: Kasym

The creation of the CU and the new Union are supported by most of the population.

It sounds good, the New Union, perhaps this is the very national idea that is so lacking in the post-Soviet space.
The capital of the New Union is the hero city of Volgograd.

[Semurg]

Why not Stalingrad? The main national idea is that the people would be better. (Sounds like Utopia and Stalingrad and about the national idea)

[Flooding]

Quote: Kasym

If the SLAVES are in alliance with the TURKS, then no Chinese or Anglo-Saxons can dictate anything to us - they are obliged to read our opinion

This is exactly what scares me.
Why not with the Kazakhs and Azerbaijanis?
Why pull all the Turks along?
What, for example, can Russia have an alliance with Turkey?

[Setrac]

Quote: Flood

What, for example, can Russia have an alliance with Turkey?

Customs Union.

[essenger]

Quote: Kassim

we have a good president, he did a lot for the country, but he is not Hugo Chavez

I don’t have a special love for Nazarbayev, but to compare him with this paranoid is too much)))

[Kassim]

I mean what he did specifically for the country, and not some kind of personality traits of character

[essenger]

Quote: Kassim

I mean what he did specifically for the country, and not some kind of personality traits of character

Any cook can rule the country at such oil prices. Nazarbayev was at least adequate, and Chavez was paranoid.

[velikoros-xnumx]

Quote: Kassim

Kassim KZ Today, 11:13 ↑

I agree to all 100%. I really want to think that there are still more people with similar thoughts in Kazakhstan than block-dwelling nationalists. In principle, it also concerns us. I consider myself, to some extent, a nationalist, and it seems to me normal for any patriotic person. The thing is different if only this pragmatic nationalism did not develop into idiocy. It is nationalism in its literal sense (love and respect for one’s own nation) that clearly demonstrates and proves the need for close integration in the post-Soviet space, because without it the process of further development of our countries and peoples will be much more complicated, longer and more painful.

[Nursultan]

nationalism is not only in the KZ but also in the Russian Federation and other countries. as they say in the family is not without a freak. and do not attribute the action of some to everyone. in the Russian Federation there are skinheads, they are nationalist, they do not attribute their action to all the Russians. and in the Republic of Kazakhstan there are those who are nationalists but not all the same Kazakhs do. there are people in the KZ and the Russian Federation who are friendly and friendly, and they are friends with others.

[smile]

Nursultan
Of course, nationalists are everywhere. The trouble is. that you are only the second Kazakh on this thread. who admitted this ... the rest of your compatriots believe that it is only we who have chauvinists ... sorry, but if you read the statement of the Kazakhs on this thread. then one gets the impression. that you have a chauvinist sitting on a chauvinist ... here. except for you, and a couple more people .... very sad ...

[zhandosbai]

Who! When? And most importantly, why?

You see, there are some comrades on the forum who, frankly, begin to muddy Kazakhs or other people on a national basis. And how to keep silent here. Although, I agree that it is impossible to generalize the nation. Just sometimes there are such rotten people.

[Max_Bauder]

Quote: scientist

Unfortunately, Kazakhstan has existed as an independent state for just over 20 years. And it owes its existence to Russia, China and the United States. Russia benefits from stability in Kazakhstan, as it is a reliable political and military ally, + the operation of training grounds and Baikonur for a symbolic payment. China and the United States have very favorable conditions for the extraction of natural resources, primarily hydrocarbons. Naturally, all these political and economic concessions are to the detriment of the interests of their own people, but the political elite, of course, has its share. The presence of huge natural resources, with the lowest population density, almost complete absence of its own production and a very "ridiculous" army (poorly equipped, technically illiterate, without combat experience) makes the existence of such a state as Kazakhstan virtually impossible. And if you consider that almost all Kazakhstani leaders, except for Nazarbayev, have absolutely no state thinking, + the traditional clannishness of the Kazakhs, gigantic corruption in all spheres of society, an intimidated law enforcement system working under the orders of "respected people" - bays, a national policy aimed at domination of the "titular" nation and the squeezing out of all other peoples, including the Russians, then in essence it becomes clear that the Kazakh state can only be preserved if there is a reliable political and military "roof". And this "roof" of course can only be Russia, because if it is China, the Kazakhs will very quickly cease to exist as a people. Kazakhs are far from being Uighurs who have been fighting the Chinese authorities for several generations. Therefore, Nazarbayev is doing everything for Eurasian integration; this is not an ambition, but a task of people's survival. Many politicians in Kazakhstan do not understand him, because they are arrogant and get drunk, so the President is in a hurry, all the same age. If he does not manage to make the integration process irreversible, Kazakhstan will simply be torn to pieces.

I agree with everything, except ... that Kazakhstan will be torn to shreds,

From time immemorial, nomads, Saks, Scythians, Huns, Türks lived on these lands, the names of states changed, but the people remained, the generation was replaced by generations, the tribes were always there, they simply united with one or the other. Do you think the Kazakhs flew from Mars in 1472 when they created the Kazakh Khanate? their ancestors have long lived here. We were, are and will be, do not worry, no matter how hard it is for us, we will break through. Even if China or the United States comes, we will live here all the same. Unless the asteroid falls, the size of the moon, well then to all the khan =), and wars between people will stop, as when you are slipping on ants fighting.

[ed65b]

Even if China or the United States comes, we will live here anyway

Wake up, only half will become Buddhists. and the second will not. This is about China, but about the United States, one half of you will cut the other. Therefore, live without them and without us, on our own and we ourselves. it will be better for everyone.

[Nomad]

Quote: Mikhail M

More than once I came across this at Baikonur in Soviet times,

There could be no Kazakh nationalism in Soviet times. I won’t argue about now, I’m already tired. But everyday Russian chauvinism blossomed and smelled both then and now. Now in Russia, then throughout the USSR. As they say, in a stranger’s eye, but in his ... I won’t say that all Russian chauvinists are by no means, but alas, there are enough of them. Including on this site.

[Zhaman-Urus]

Good afternoon. I did not want to get into a discussion about Kazakh or Russian nationalism, but a week ago there was an occasion. To my friend KAZAKH, the Kazakh broke his nose for coming up in a karaoke bar and making a complaint to the Kazakh for boorish behavior towards his Russian friend.
PS It is very funny, Kazakh Kazakh broke his nose, for Kazakh solidarity, but for some reason I have no fun.

[Semurg]

Kazakh Kazakh broke his nose for rudeness against Russian in Kazakhstan and you do not understand sadly. Why did the Kazakh intercede for Russian? why didn’t they unite and attack the Russian? or why did the Kazakh begin to run into Russian? I think so, as long as there is karaoke with booze, there will be fights, while there are different nations there will be fights, and it will be sad when there is no friend for a Russian or a Kazakh who will fit in, even despite the fact that he may suffer.

[Zhaman-Urus]

Yes, no, the Kazakh flew in just because he fit in with the Russian, and did not support his fellow tribesman. But this is a domestic situation. You are right. My question is, do you have data on how many percent in Kazakhstan are Russians and how many percent in Russia are for example in the civil service?

[essenger]

Quote: Zhaman-Urus

My question is, do you have data on how many percent in Kazakhstan are Russians and how many percent in Russia are for example in the civil service?

I have a counter-question, how many percent of Russians speak the state language?

[Zhaman-Urus]

I agree, this is a deadly argument) Just tell me please, how many years of Kazakhstan's independence? 22 if I am not mistaken, and you would like to know if we have a unified program for learning the Kazakh language in our country, starting from kindergarten and up to university? I can answer you as a person who graduated from the humanities. University and the spouse of a school teacher. She is NOT. Rather, it is constantly changing, the Kazakh language teachers themselves are not sufficiently qualified, plus a constant staff turnover. So when the Kazakhs say to me "During the Soviet era, we spoke Russian, why don't you speak Kazakh now?" The only answer is "Teach". In the USSR, for 20 years, the Russian language was taught to ALL, but for some reason we do not.

[essenger]

Quote: Zhaman-Urus

I agree, this is a deadly argument.

He who does not want seeks the cause; he who wants wants seeks the opportunity.
Now tell them how difficult it is for you to learn the language. Nobody will teach you, you yourself must learn. Maybe the problem is not with teachers, but with students?

[romb]

Thank you for the video!
This is the answer to the "impossibility" of learning the state language.
Definitely - "a good dancer ....."!

[essenger]

Quote: romb

Thank you for the video!
This is the answer to the "impossibility" of learning the state language.
Definitely - "a good dancer ....."!

Please))), I just got people who do not speak, but talk about the supposedly primitiveness of the Kazakh language.

[romb]

I also had to meet with this kind of people who in the beginning shouted: "I don't need this," and after that, they began to throw a tantrum about the alleged discrimination.

[Setrac]

Quote: romb

began to arrange a tantrum about alleged discrimination.

There is discrimination, they are not foreigners who came to live in Kazakhstan from abroad, they are the same citizens as the Kazakhs and, when the state of Kazakhstan was created in 1991, their rights were infringed and nothing has changed now.

[Semurg]

Discrimination would be if they were denied citizenship, and knowledge of the state. language is a citizen's duty and not discrimination. Why do Gaster require passing an exam on knowledge of the Russian language, although he is a temporary worker. Why is this not discrimination but requests for citizens to know at least at least at the state. language is discrimination? Well, yes, the teachers are bad, the programs are not the same, it’s better not to groan Kazakh neighbors about the nat. oppression and discrimination and oppression so probably more familiar and easier. It is necessary to make titanic efforts to learn 200 words in Kazakh minimum sufficient to communicate at a primitive level.

[Yeraz]

Quote: Zhaman-Urus

Just answer please, how many years of independence of Kazakhstan? 22 if I’m not mistaken, but do you find out if we have a unified program for studying the Kazakh language in our country, starting from the kindergarten of the school and to the university? I can answer you as a person who has finished humanity. University and the spouse of the school teacher. Its NOT.

stupid excuses, living among the Kazakhs, you can know Kazakh, but if there was no desire ...... Previously, there was an excuse they say that in the USSR Russian is the main state language, there is no obligation to learn local. But why does my father, who graduated from the Armenian police school, ideally speak although I could not learn the Armenian language because the training was in Russian, I also know a bunch of Armenians who know Azerbaijani, but Russian who knows Azerbaijani, but mostly those who are from independent Azerbaijan, especially the younger generation, like the Kazakhs did not make concessions and learned everything at once, although everyone is studying in schools in the Russian sectors (in Baku, almost every school and university has a Russian sector).
As you can see, while studying in the Russian sector, they also speak Azerbaijani, because either this is your homeland and you must know the language or where you speak that language.
And the Turkic languages ​​are not difficult.

[xetai9977]

That's right! We don’t have a gender division such as male, female, average. And in general ... A week ago we showed an American who lives with us! About 5 years ago I came to work under a contract and stayed that way. Speaks freely and even composes poetry in our language

[Alex Bugur]

If you wish, you can always learn at least at the household level. I knew a little while I was living, but now I just don’t have anyone to hear from. I rush to the cars with the Kazakhstan numbers with kisses ...

[Marek Rozny]

Zhaman-Urus, who wants to - even we learn French or Chinese in a year or a couple of years. I mastered several languages ​​stupidly on phrasebooks and textbooks downloaded from the Internet.
As for the Kazakh language, what for the fool include? The older generation is not going to know the state language at all and frankly say that they don't need it. And their children are openly raised in a similar spirit. For 22 years, not learning at least a few phrases in the state language is not the fault of the state, it is a banal contempt for a foreign language. My familiar Ukrainian moved from Lviv (!) To Temirtau in 1999, in four years he mastered Kazakh to such an extent that some Kazakhs will lose their nose. He simply did not think of the fact that you can move somewhere and not speak the local language.
And how much I talked with Americans, Germans, who for a year in Kazakhstan mastered the Kazakh language to a good degree! Yes, with an accent, and with a relatively small vocabulary, but they can easily speak Kazakh in any topic. For Kazakhstani Russians, this sounds implausible. But I met such expats and I meet very often.
In the Almaty courtyard in the first Koktem, I lived an American from the Peace Corps. This goner went out every night with a textbook of the Kazakh language and constantly tried to speak Kazakh with us. And a year later, he spied almost freely in Kazakh.

The Kazakhs in the USSR learned the Russian language by stupidly closing Kazakh schools. Well, and in fact, it was generally forbidden to create higher education in the Kazakh language (in fact, only one ZhenPI was with the Kazakh language of instruction). If the Kazakhs create similar conditions for the Russians, closing completely Russian schools and universities, leaving only the education system in the Kazakh language ... well, you understand me. So if you want Russians in Kazakhstan to create "the same conditions" as in the USSR, then you will be the first to whine.
I have already cited the dynamics of Kazakh schools in the years of the USSR on the site. The number of Kazakhs was increasing after the war, and the number of schools was steadily decreasing. It got to the point that in the one and a half million capital of the Kazakh SSR there was only ONE school with the Kazakh language of instruction. Well, what do we begin to rely on the Soviet experience of linguistics?
By the way, if you are interested in where, supposedly, Russians are in the civil service, then do not answer at the same time, what the hell are the Russian Kazakhstanis mowing down from service in the Kazakh army? 40% of the country's inhabitants are Russian-speaking, but 90% in the army are ethnic Kazakhs. Why aren’t you indignant? It turns out that Russian Kazakhstanis do not want to serve in the army, are not going to speak the language, and then they wonder why there are few of them in the civil service? But what for do you need such an official who will be stupid, looking at incomprehensible Kazakh letters in the document? Or do we need to put a translator on every Russian official?
Z.Y. And I can also recall how Russian youth dumped in Russia in the 90s to otmazyvatsya from military service (and at the same time, as Kazakhstani people, they evaded military service in the Russian army), and then returned back when they were already uninvited age. Or do you hear this for the first time? I have dozens of such acquaintances.

[Flooding]

Quote: Marek Rozny

The Kazakhs learned the Russian language in the USSR by stupidly closing Kazakh schools. Well, and higher education in the Kazakh language was essentially forbidden to create

In 1975, 2034 titles of books and brochures with a total circulation of 25,9 million copies were issued, including 746 titles in Kazakh with a circulation of 14,4 million copies. 178 journal issues were published with an annual circulation of 50,4 million copies, including 28 in the Kazakh language; 400 newspapers were published.
The first radio broadcasts began in 1923, television broadcasts since 1958. Republican radio and television broadcasts were conducted in Kazakh, Russian, Korean, Uyghur, German and Uzbek.

From the article "Kazakh SSR" (TSB, 1976)

All of you, dear, are blowing into the same dudu.
I can safely judge by the example of the Moldavian SSR.
I do not think that the language policy here differed significantly.
Most schools were, indeed, with instruction in Russian.
Is it bad at the same time that everyone could send their child to school with instruction in the Moldavian language?
Is this bad despite the fact that the Moldavian language was an obligatory subject in every Russian school?
Is this bad, bearing in mind that the Moldavian language, both spoken and literary, has been preserved in its entirety?

[Marek Rozny]

In bulk, only numbers:
On the eve of World War II, more than 7,5 thousand schools (Kazakh and Russian). Most of them were Kazakh schools.
In 1959, the Kazakh SSR acted 3123 schools with the Kazakh language of instruction. (There were 4199 Russian schools in the same academic year).
In the 1969 academic year, Kazakh schools were already 2577.
In the 1989 school year there was 2613 Kazakh schools. (Russian schools were 4547).
At the same time, Russian schools were large facilities designed for a large number of students, and Kazakh schools by 99% are small aul schools, in which usually from a few dozen to 300 students of all ten classes studied.
And as I have already mentioned, before the Almaty events of 1986, only ONE Kazakh school existed in the capital of the Kazakh SSR (and not only did it always "wander" from building to building, there was also a three-year period when it was closed altogether). And only after Moscow was frightened by "Kazakh nationalism" was it allowed to build a second Kazakh school (more precisely, the former Kazakh school, turned into Russian, was again made Kazakh).
True, the initiators of the creation of the second Kazakh school in Alma-Ata were initially branded as "nationalists" because of their demands to increase the number of Kazakh schools.
Until the late 1980s in the curricula of universities of the Kazakh USSR generally absent Kazakh language courses.

Now about the newspapers:
In 1970 - it was published in Kazakh. 355 newspapers.
In 1980 - 161 Kazakh newspaper.
After the events of 1986, by 1990 they began to produce 197 Kazakh newspaper (their circulation by that time was 28,6% of the total circulation of newspapers in the republic).

Regarding books and brochures:
In 1975 was released 746 titles of books and brochures with a total circulation of 14,4 million copies.
By 1990, output was reduced to 596 print units with the same print run.

Doesn't it look so rosy now? It was not a good idea to pull out the figures from 1975 and not look at the picture as a whole.

[Flooding]

Quote: Marek Rozny

It was not a good idea to pull out the figures from 1975 and not look at the picture as a whole.

Very much the other way around. The numbers 1975 are very revealing.
But you are manipulating facts of unknown origin.
So, what I managed to find: that in 1975 (before the collapse of the USSR there were not so many left - 16 years) more than half books published in the Kazakh USSR were published in the Kazakh language.
Further, in 1975, about 400 newspapers were published in the Kazakh SSR.
But for 1970 you give the figure of 355 newspapers in the Kazakh language.
What is the conclusion? What for 1970-1975. overwhelming some newspapers were published in Kazakh.
You spread a lot about the only school in Alma-Ata that teaches in the Kazakh language. I don’t know if this is true, but you hush up the fact that is inconvenient for you - an obligatory subject of the Kazakh language in all Russian schools.
You know, the 80s are absolutely not indicative for me, as an example of the state of affairs in the Soviet Union. And I think you can guess why.

[Alex Bugur]

But let's not talk about the 90s! Kazakhs mowed no less than Russians from the army. Yes, and nationalism flourished specifically. I was called up from Kustanai, so we only had 2 Kazakhs out of 10 people in our team. And there were 40 Aktobe people, including half of the Kazakhs, so they began to spread rot on their Russians while still on the train, with the full connivance of "buyers", Kazakhs by nationality.

[Semurg]

Quote: Alex Bugur

But let's not talk about the 90s! Kazakhs mowed no less than Russians from the army. Yes, and nationalism flourished specifically. I was called up from Kustanai, so we only had 2 Kazakhs out of 10 people in our team. And there were 40 Aktobe people, including half of the Kazakhs, so they began to spread rot on their Russians while still on the train, with the full connivance of "buyers", Kazakhs by nationality.

He served even with the union, you know, and then there was nationalism of the two Kazakhs, the Russians didn’t regale us with pies.

[Alex Bugur]

Only it was in 93. Already the second year went, how the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan were formed.

[xetai9977]

This is a sore topic. We also have some Russians, over 60 years of life here we have not bothered not only to speak, but also to understand the state language. True, there are those who speak excellent. You can’t even figure out who he or she is nationality.

[romb]

Most likely, the usual conflict on household grounds: they drank, caught their eyes, word for word, and off we go. You have probably noticed that the manifestation of nationalism on the part of individual Kazakhs in the presence of other nationalities is perceived by them (Kazakhs) quite negatively. And at the same time, we must not forget that over the past twenty years, the growth of national self-consciousness in all the countries of the former CCCR is accelerated. At the same time, the tendencies of separation into one's own / another's will most likely only intensify. Fortunately, so far, in fact, Kazakhstan remains the only country in Central Asia in which there are no and there were no mass ethnic conflicts. In this case, the relationship between the two key ethnic groups inhabiting the Republic of Kazakhstan - the Kazakhs and the Russians, who even quite manage to coexist peacefully within the framework of one state, plays a very important role.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Zhaman-Urus

You data on how many percent in Kazakhstan are Russian and the data how many percent are Russian for example in the public service?

If you understand the essence of the question, could you look at it from a different angle ?! And not from the position: "Oh mom, we are oppressed!?! "
Here, the position of the Kazakhs regarding many Russian Kazakhstanis has already been explained. Re-post of my comment from 13 August 2013 09: 10 ↑

Quote: Alibekulu

the constantly raised question about "Russian" Kazakhstanis in power - that is, their relatively small number in the management environment of Kazakhstan is largely due to precisely this .. After all, there is still no confidence in them .. It's good if these are people like Minesweeper, Caravan, Andrey kz and many others. otherfor which there is no doubt ..
But, where is the guarantee that among the people admitted to the adoption of strategic decisions will not be 12345, ia-ai00, Boricello, LetterKsi and many others other

12 August 2013 21: 28 ↑

Quote: Semurg

, and among the Kazakhs, they suspecting Russians that with difficulties this part of their people will not help, but maybe on the contrary will push them from the edge of the abyss

Kazakhs are well aware that there are many Russians who do not recognize and do not want to recognize the statehood of Kazakhstan. For them, the Kremlin’s opinion of Ak-Orda’s priority position ..
Ask yourself why Kazakhstan is in the public service people who, in fact, this state does not recognize and do not respect ?? !!
What can we lead to? We see an example from the history of Russia when people came to power for whom Washington’s opinion was more important than Russia's state interests. The most typical example is the activity of Kozyrev at the head of the Russian Foreign Ministry ...

[Alex Bugur]

Why Zhaman, and not Jacques?

[Yuriwhite]

Again, Kazakhstani gentlemen are brazenly lying about how Russian is good in this country? :) Kazakhstan is the same under-state as Ukraine. Just in the temporarily lost Russian territory of Kazakhstan, the leadership is still sane, however, by leaps and bounds it is building a national state, and although Nazarbayev still keeps these trends in check, he is not eternal. In general, hello to Southern Rhodesia now Zimbabwe.

[Lindon]

Russians do not have friends because they communicate with everyone, either a boss or a fool. On equal terms they can’t. Hence the tales of under-states.
This is what you need to be in order to write the name of fraternal Ukraine (I am silent about Kazakhstan) with a small letter.
Well, Putin, a sane person, unlike the EBN, appreciated the idea of ​​the Eurasian Union.
And provocateurs will always spoil the reputation of Russians and Russia.

[smile]

Lindon
The unhappy opinion you expressed about Russians is your daydream ... the usual daydream of a petty and petty chauvinist with impaired pride .... it’s even interesting how chauvinists reproduce after infringement ... by budding, or what? :))) I really hope that the Natsik people like you in the Kazakh people are a minority ....
By the way, what were you thinking about, heavily pouring mud on the Russians (well, what does the chauvinist have except dirt?) And politically correct praising Putin? .... :))) is this how small Kazakh chauvinists see tolerance? :)))) You have to be a giant of thought in order to combine this in five lines ...
And the last thing, you are right, provocateurs will always try to spoil the reputation of Russians and Russia - that is exactly you, that provocateur is ... moreover, it amazes me how one should be ... as Zodornov says to write what they wrote you, and on a blue eye consider yourself a non-provocateur and non-chauffeur .... "Heaven! Heaven has never seen such a kid !!!" I hope the provocateurs are allowed to watch the film Kinza-dza :))))

[smile]

Yuriwhite

Yes, this gentleman blatantly lied. But this is not a reason to insult ALL Kazakhs and the whole of Kazakhstan. Of course, it is necessary to answer the attacks of their chauvinists. so as not to be borzoi, but it would be worthwhile to know the measure too .... Or are you eager to set all Kazakhs against us? And how are you then different from this terry Kazakh chauvinist? You are descending to his level! Please keep yourself in control.

[xetai9977]

yuri How can a normal state be built with such a level of thinking as this chauvinist?

[smile]

Nomad
You know, it’s just touched by your hard-won truth that a significant part of the Russians are chauvinists ... and earlier they were .... but your fellow tribesmen, for no reason, there couldn’t be such a thing and all .... that, without spitting in the direction of the Russian your life stops? Can't live otherwise? ... :)))
I'm tired of arguing with the likes of you too .... but, damn it, if you are a chauvinist, don't show it, no one pulls you by the tongue. you yourself voluntarily, without coercion, open your mouth and expound your homely "truth" ... and I, for example, HAVE to respond to your slander .... I have never taken and did not begin to evaluate the Kazakhs from a bunch of bugs ... .well, do not make us give you back ... or do you really want to bark? Or your chauvinism has come to such an extent. that you yourself are not able to understand what you are carrying?

[Prishtina]

Kazakhstan .. no offense to the citizen of Kazakhstan I will say .. This is an outpost of Russia (in a good way) in Sr. Asia ... We need a strong Kazakhstan with a strong Army. After all, if Sr. Asia "flares up" ... and such a development cannot be ruled out by 14-15, the only country that stands as a buffer between the radical Islamists and the Russian "underbelly" is Kazakhstan.

Moreover_ I believe that our Central Military District and Armed Forces of Kazakhstan, we must begin to integrate and create _ a single command (Asia). Even if in the direction of Middle Asia the command will be tied to the Ministry of Defense of Kazashkhtan. This is their area and it is easier for them to navigate.

In general, it is necessary to prepare now.

[Semurg]

The more people share your point of view, the easier it will be for both Kazakhs and Russians (no one canceled mutual interests) And there is no resentment at the "outpost" because we will first of all defend ourselves and our state, and if Russia’s interest is even better in this ...

[ed65b]

What army? The CSTO betrayed us during 08.08.08. Betray and more, and even worse sell.

[essenger]

Quote: ed65b

What army? The CSTO betrayed us during 08.08.08. Betray and more, and even worse sell.

Do you know what international law is?

[ed65b]

There is only one right if an ally got in the face come and help him and do not stand aside winkingly. You as an ally should have been obliged to help. The stump is clear that they managed without you, but there wasn’t even any movement on your part. Well, what is your CSTO in action?

[essenger]

Quote: ed65b

Well, what is your CSTO in action?

First of all, you simplify everything too much. In this case, there were no legal reasons for CSTO involvement.
Secondly, if you are not happy, then dissolve the CSTO. I with two hands FOR.

[ed65b]

Chamberlain also liked to talk about reasons.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: ed65b

What army? The CSTO betrayed us during 08.08.08. Betray and more, and even worse sell.

don't get smart. The CSTO was created in order to repel an attack on the territory of one of the members of this military bloc. it is spelled out in the documents of the CSTO. the fact that Russia itself entered the territory of Georgia is legally the affairs of Russia and Georgia, and not members of the CSTO.
In addition, the CSTO does not have the right to intervene in internal conflicts of members of the Organization. Therefore, the CSTO troops did not intervene in the Kyrgyz conflict in Osh (the Russians then sent a small unit there solely to protect their own military base from possible attacks, and not to separate the Uzbeks from the Kyrgyz).
in short, sometimes it's better to chew than talk.

[ed65b]

the fact that Russia itself entered the territory of Georgia is legally the affairs of Russia and Georgia,

Well, you are a stupid person in kind. When did the Georgians become members of the CSTO?
So chew, cow damn it.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: ed65b

When did the Georgians become members of the CSTO?

Did you ascribe this to me? it is clear that I had in mind Russia as a member of the CSTO. you yourself are stupid out of the blue, you’re also trying to expose the fools of others, and neighboring states are supposedly traitors. go read the documents on the CSTO, and then noah, that someone allegedly did not fulfill his obligations.
and you will see a stupid person and a cow in the mirror.

[ed65b]

The CSTO was created in order to repel an attack on the territory of one of the members of this military bloc. it is spelled out in the documents of the CSTO. the fact that Russia itself entered the territory of Georgia is legally the affairs of Russia and Georgia, and not members of the CSTO.

In addition, the CSTO does not have the right to intervene in internal conflicts of members of the Organization.

Georgia member?
What do I have and I’ll introduce understood? When the thing is more careful by clave, or go to the Latin alphabet (didn’t you give the command yet?)

[essenger]

Ed65b

But why dispute for the sake of argument? or you do not speak Russian.

In addition, the CSTO does not have the right to intervene in internal conflicts of members of the organization.
(c) Marek Pink

He meant Kyrgyzstan, why Georgia was dragged here?

We’ll go to the Latin alphabet soon, this one does not concern citizens of another state at all. I am absolutely violet what you think about this.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: ed65b

What do I have and I’ll introduce understood? When the thing is more careful by clave, or go to the Latin alphabet (didn’t you give the command yet?)

........................ :))) If you don't understand Russian, can you give an answer in Kazakh? I can write you in Latin - no problem. But who is to blame that you are "limited" in languages. Kazakhs are practically all bilinguals (at least), and those who revel in the "great and mighty" usually write even in their native language at the level of a C grade student :))) Can I write you in another language? I can also write in several languages ​​and in different alphabets. Mogu dazhe po-russki na latinitse napisat ', esli neimetsja potryndet' pro etot alfavit. What problems?

I wrote to you about internal conflicts as additional information and the following sentence: "Therefore, the CSTO troops did not intervene in the Kyrgyz conflict ...". For your horizons about this organization. Even non-Russians would understand my text as expected and would not confuse my paragraph about the Russian-Georgian conflict with my other paragraph about the reasons why the CSTO also did not harness the Uzbeks who were rammed in Kyrgyzstan.
Z.Y. What does the Kazakh Latin bother you with? Are you worried that you will have to retrain from the Kazakh Cyrillic alphabet? Will you stop understanding the Kazakh language now? Poor thing ... Exclusively for your sake I can write you answers in the Kazakh Cyrillic alphabet.

[Setrac]

Quote: ed65b

What army? The CSTO betrayed us during 08.08.08. Betray and more, and even worse sell.

And what should the CSTO do? To add Georgia? This is not the case where Russia needed help.

[Semurg]

here I agree with you.

[Drummer]

Sorry, but our opinion about the war on 8.8.8 is somewhat different from the position of Channel One ("genocide", "Georgian aggression", etc.). Everyone there was good (Georgians, Ossetians, Russia, USA), it is not surprising that Kazakhstan and Belarus chose not to mess with this shameful story and maintain friendly relations with all parties.

[essenger]

Quote: Prishtina

This is an outpost of Russia

An outpost doesn't make good sense. No Kazakhstan is an outpost.

[IRBIS]

Quote: Essenger

No Kazakhstan is an outpost.

It would be more correct - a buffer zone, a security band. This is the harsh truth, and the snot about "brotherhood" and "friendship" should be left for the especially impressionable.

[essenger]

Quote: IRBIS

This is the harsh truth, and the snot about "brotherhood" and "friendship" should be left for the especially impressionable.

On the question of "brotherhood" I completely agree with you. We are not brothers.

[smile]

IRBIS
With great reluctance and great displeasure, I have to admit that if the Kazakhs that were noted in the comments to this article are a representative sample ..... then there can be no talk of any fraternity, in the best case, indeed, a security band .... at the same time, they themselves do not understand that they simply force them to treat themselves like that ... they also do not understand how their petty and petty nationalism is to the detriment of their interests, and not only to the detriment of the damned Russian chauvinists ... takes melancholy after acquaintance with all the comments of this thread ....

[Zymran]

Please explain what you mean.

Personally, I always believed that sincerity in a relationship is the best that can be in a relationship.

And we also have a proverb that a good neighbor is better than a bad relative. This is the question of "brotherhood".

[smile]

Zymran
I explain.
If we analyze only the statements of the Kazakhs on this thread, of this Russian site, where they are naturally restrained, then a deplorable picture develops - most of your compatriots have a grudge against us, thinks they have the right to swear insults of the Russian people, believes that we don’t have the right to even have fun .... otherwise, they can’t stigmatize us provocateurs and chauvinists .... that is, they believe that they are allowed that which is not allowed to us .... I am already silent about the fact that refugees nevertheless, we were ours from you, and not yours from us ... although we are silent about this ... I wanted to write a lot more ... but I got sick, you should know all this without me ... read the thread ... . well and taking into account all of the above, I can say that the prospect is one-time, based on the benefits (bigger for us, smaller for us) and security (for you bigger, smaller for us), the union complicated by the fact that your population will be largely configured almost Russophobian, our burdocks, as always, I will not know t, how the Kazakhs actually treat us ... this union will be beneficial to everyone .... but your chauvinists will not allow it to grow into a brotherhood ... as a result, in case of serious trials, we will help you defend yourself, not defend your land, as your own ... you will not allow us to do this ... who will benefit from this, decide for yourself ...

[Zymran]

Quote: smile

hold on, then a depressing picture develops — most of your compatriots have a grudge against us, thinks that they have the right to sweeping insults of the Russian people, thinks that at the same time we don’t even have a chance to shun ourselves .... otherwise, we’ll stigmatize us nothing provocateurs and chauvinists ..

In my opinion, both sides are good here. Understand that the Kazakhs want to be friends with Russia and with the Russians, but the majority do not want to become part of a "single country" or constantly bend under the direction of Moscow, Istanbul, Beijing or Washington.

Quote: smile

..I am already silent about the fact that the refugees were still ours from you, and not yours from us ... although we are silent about this.

Well, I well remember my childhood and youth in a city with a predominantly Russian population. A significant number of Russians really left from there, but even now the Russian population is about half.
They could not escape from the violence inflicted by the Kazakhs because the Russians possessed an overwhelming numerical and, most important, moral advantage.

Another thing is that at that time Russians were accustomed to treating Kazakhs with neglect, often as second-class people, and there was usually no response from the Kazakhs. Well, with independence for various racist things, they began to give out quite tangible stars.

At the same time on state. service and many budget organizations, indeed, there is protectionism and nepotism when they drag their fellow countrymen or relatives. This is a big problem from the point of view of the Russian people, it is a real manifestation of nationalism, but in reality it is rather nepotism, since it is taken not for nationality, but for family ties or personal devotion.
Domestic nationalism also exists, though mutual, but on the whole we live normally. The main question is the language question.

Quote: smile

temporary, based on benefits (bigger for you, smaller for us) and security (bigger for you, smaller),

For some reason, my compatriots are silent about this, but Kazakhstan received absolutely no benefit from the CU. Those. those who need it, those in power, directors of oil companies, the government, probably did not miss theirs. As for the common people, he received only a wild increase in prices for all goods.

Quote: smile

and security (you’re bigger, we’re smaller) union, complicated by the fact that your population will be largely Russophobic

Let's be honest. Do Russians have any brotherly feelings for Kazakhs?
For example, middle Russian from central Russia. Of course not.
In general, I think that Kazakhs (from Kazakhstan) relate to Russians much better than Russians (from Russia) to Kazakhs, if only because we live in the same country with a large Russian population, but in Russia there are few Kazakhs and most Russians they do not see any differences between us and other Central Asians. Not to mention some mythical fraternity.

[smile]

Zymran
You write kindly sincerely, so that you would like to answer .... I have half-past one in the night, I just have no strength to work tomorrow ... if you want, I will answer tomorrow evening, okay?
I say in advance — most of all, in the statements of your colleagues, I don’t like accusing us of all mortal sins in recognizing our infallibility ... despite the fact that you didn’t especially nationalize in Soviet times, because the evil Russians simply could not physically realize their chauvinism ... now but nothing holds you back (or rather, now it’s almost settled down, but before?) ... I believe that in Soviet times we did not allow ourselves and could not afford (and do not allow now) what you did, partially do and declare ... yes, to hell with him, we are all not in white, but some Kazakhs (here, the majority) believe that they have done with the Russians, so they need to ... what do you think. why would we like this and we shouldn’t answer that? ...... okay, you want me to answer normally, drop me a line, write tomorrow, now-pass ....

[Zymran]

Ok, write a detailed answer.

[smile]

Zymran
Once promised, I answer.
1. You are really right - both sides are good.
About ours. I’m taking the Soviet time. I don’t want to write an essay ... :)))
Indeed, in Soviet times there was a different attitude on the part of Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians to immigrants from Asia (I think you will agree, it was somewhat different from the attitude towards Caucasians). Indeed, some Russian-speaking people (this equally applied to all the Slavs of the USSR, no matter what they say) had different nicknames and a sense of superiority (as your compatriots also had them) ... personally, according to my observations, basically this attitude they admitted the most ... how to put it that way ... the near part of the Slavs ... and, what is strange for me, for some reason, the wives of the officers ... why explain it, kill God, I don’t know ... either that being usually with higher education, they couldn’t always find a job and were completely fooled by doing nothing and household disorder (I think you remember how it was at that time with housing for servicemen who sometimes lived for years in dormitories and barracks, and the work of their wives) , or because of what ... it's just a fact .... the only discrimination that I knew was that people from the Caucasus and Asia in the Army were sent more than Russians to the construction units ... that's all.
Personal communication with such guys led to the conclusion that they were mainly sent there due to, excuse me, the costs of schooling ... like ours ... alas ... although I personally know the commander of the sapper battalion that went through 3 wars , who believed that his Uzbeks and Kazakhs were subordinates worth dreaming about. The reason is that they study the same way as the others, but they do not filon, and they are more executive than ours ... also knew and fought along with two Kazakhs Shevtsov (surname by stepfather), he died, a comrade you can only dream of, and a scout from God. I write these lines only because he had such a flair for ... the troubles that happens only in science fiction books about superheroes ... Second, Dehan, a machine gunner from God, is the only person I know who could hear at night for meters for 70 to get into a tree behind which lay a source of suspicious noise (actually I was, but he could not know about it :)))) left as a hero, taking with him as many people as there were not in our entire group .. ..
We’ll return ... Until 17 years I lived in Lithuania, and there everyone who was not Lithuanian was Russian ... we did not divide each other according to other nationalities - Chanturia and Balayan and Alyaev and Sidorenko and Basharimov (by the way- Belarusian :)))) and I, sinful, we were all Russian ... Even Zdanevichute and Razgus. The Russians who felt themselves were also Russians .... the Lithuanians helped us in this ... like in Kazakhstan, no one oppressed the titular nation (excuse me if the name is offensive), on the contrary, there was an order - the director of the enterprise is always Lithuanian, regardless of abilities , the chief of police is always the title one, the Secretary of the city committee is also ... Russian, if they were deputies ... even in a Russian school the representative of the Children's Police Room is always a teacher of the Lithuanian language ....... while we were quite experienced domestic nationalism ... I won’t say what, but I assure you, there were no cases when a seller in a store refused to serve a buyer who contacted in Lithuanian ... there were no return shafts .... By the way, you know how Russian schools were different from Lithuanian? The project, they have twice as much, Tennis court, shooting gallery, swimming pool, computer class, gym ... we only have a gym and a football field, a miserable semblance of their Stadium with four venues .... I don’t know how you do. ... there is discrimination ... :))) but we were allowed into the computer class, schools were usually across the road ...... :))))

[Zymran]

I put a plus sign, and I will write a detailed answer tomorrow. We have almost one in the morning.

[smile]

Zymran
Similarly, I’ll read and answer 21x22 across Moscow

[Zymran]

About the Soviet Army, my father told me that, indeed, all Central Asians were called the collective term "lumps", and this was in the Guards Tank Regiment, however, the Kazakhstani community was never divided into nationalities. Kazakhs, Russians, Germans all considered themselves fellow countrymen and stood up for each other.

Quote: smile

... also knew and fought along with two Kazakhs Shevtsov (surname by stepfather), he died, a comrade you can only dream of, and a scout from God. I write these lines only because he had such a flair for ... the troubles that happens only in science fiction books about superheroes ... Second, Dehan, a machine gunner from God, is the only person I know who could hear at night for meters for 70 to get into a tree behind which lay a source of suspicious noise (actually I was, but he could not know about it :)))) left as a hero, taking with him as many people as there were not in our entire group .. ..

Respect and honor to these people, probably, anyone would like to serve and be friends with such people. Respect to you, since you respond so well and remember your comrades in arms!

Quote: smile

at the same time, we quite experienced domestic nationalism ... I won’t say what, but I assure you, there would be no cases when a seller in a store refuses to serve a buyer who contacted in Lithuanian ... there were no return shafts ....

This was not the case in Kazakhstan by definition. On the contrary, a certain marginal part of the European population could speak out very impartially about our language, etc. Like "speak humanly, but don't gyrgych your own." Even now, if there are several Kazakhs and one Russian in a company, we usually speak Russian.
However, I have a good friend named Dmitry. He is not a bit tired of speaking Kazakh with us, as well as Russian with us. Sometimes we even communicate in a wild mixture of Kazakh and Russian. :)

Quote: smile

By the way, do you know how Russian schools differed from Lithuanian ones? The project, they have twice as much, Tennis court, shooting gallery, pool, computer room, gym ... we only have a gym and a football field, a miserable semblance of their Stadium with four venues .... I don’t know how you do. ... there is discrimination ... :))) but we were allowed into the computer class, schools were usually across the road ...... :))))

In my hometown, it’s good if there were one or two Kazakh schools. Nobody even heard about pools and courts. Neither in Russian nor in Kazakh school. So there was complete equality.

Quote: smile

the director of the enterprise is always Lithuanian, regardless of his ability, the chief of police is always the titular, the Secretary of the city committee is also

We also had this, but not always. Directors still were mostly Russians. In the police - yes, many Kazakh employees, and now the vast majority.
Frankly, I consider this a kind of shame for the nation, but honest law enforcement officials will forgive me.

[smile]

Zymran
Well, you have nothing to answer me. I agree. unless +

[smile]

Zymran- continued
Further ... at 17, I entered a university in Kaliningrad; we, too, did not feel any difference there. There were Kenyul Talibova, Chikhladze and Sartania and Shukur ... all were ... if someone remembered nationality, they would gobble up ...... the only discrimination that I experienced on myself (I have a famous Vainakh surname , looming in the bulletins) is when before the army came to undergo pre-graduation practice ... thanks to the acquaintances of my mother, who worked half the life in law enforcement, I went to the bar (the topic of the diploma was) ... first, the aunt who took me under the wing she asked everything about me. I asked who I was by nationality, I answered in detail (in the passport, Ukrainian :)))). then he says, go get acquainted ... go ... a court of one of the districts of the region, the prosecutor's office, the police ... and everywhere. In addition to the rest, the question is, and who are you by nationality ..... in general, this question lifted me up, and in the police I told the head of the investigation, the Jew .... fell behind ... imagine, the end of the working day, Antonina (she was 55-50 years old) calls me into his office ... looks intently and says, why did you deceive me ... after a pause (I almost died, frantically thinking how I managed and most importantly, what? :)))) ) why didn’t you say that you were a Jew? ... Well, then I exploded (I had a bad character even then:)))) ... I almost yelled, and what does it matter! ... she - Correctly, no, I'm friends with the Jews .... :))) I haven’t got it. Are there Jews with Vainakh surnames? :)))) like this. This is the only case in my life when someone in Russia took an interest in my nationality ......
When the union collapsed, all local nationalists came to power .... in the former republics, not in Russia. In contrast to the Russian idiots who called the Central Asians "churrrrks" and did not discriminate against them in any way, a real opportunity appeared to arrange our kirdy. Yes, and to cash in on this ..... I basically will not talk about what was done to the Russians ... including yours ... I only indicated it once. Marek Rozny brought out ... I don’t want to repeat ... and don’t laugh, just so as not to incite ethnic hatred .... and so, not only did not a single Kazakh lose his job, our newspapers did not write about how they acted with the Russians in the republics ... so, sometimes especially monstrous facts leaked out ... but they were crushed, as ultra-Nazi skinheads are being crushed, into which the dregs of society go, marginals ... and when they are caught - arrange demonstration processes ... I have not heard of any of these processes in any of the republics .... what, are you all right? ... that's it, the whole difference is that our society is fighting the chauvinism bacillus . And yours, judging by the fact that your colleagues wrote it, gives it to develop ....

I’m not discussing now the possibility of a single country — it won’t be with this attitude towards the Russians — and to hell with it — I wrote above — you don’t want to be a brother — you will be the security band (I hope you understand that this is a fortification term) is your only choice - to be the wife of three husbands just will not work ... alas ... anyway, even the foreground is a mutual benefit ....
By the way, and in cities with a predominantly Russian population earlier ... who began to occupy ALL the main posts from the administration to the police and the director of the plant ... can you tell me? And where did the former go? .. I'm talking about discrimination ... especially since there were a minority of such cities and they were industrial ..... and the industry died there ... No? .... but did the Kazakhs reach cities, squeezing out Russians and using clan ties and, of course, power and administrative resources? ..... Are we guilty that our clan system began to die off earlier?
I will not say anything about the TS - even your compatriots on this thread did not agree ... I do not consider myself entitled to tryndet about something, based on tyrnete - I respect myself too much to talk about what I don’t know ....

[Zymran]

When the union collapsed, all local nationalists came to power .... in the former republics, not in Russia. Unlike the Russian idiots who called the Central Asians “churrrrks” and did not discriminate against them in any way, a real opportunity appeared to arrange our kirdy. Yes, and on this and cash in ..... I basically will not talk about what was done to the Russians ... including yours ... I only once indicated this.

Actually, what they did. Understand that in the 90 years I lived in a city with a predominantly Russian population, almost all my acquaintances, friends, neighbors were Russian.

In Kazakhstan, there were conflicts on ethnic grounds, but mainly with representatives of the Caucasian diaspora, Turks and Kurds. These questions were not hushed up. You can find a lot of information on the Internet on New Uzen, Tengiz, Low Water ...

I’m not discussing now the possibility of a single country — it won’t be with this attitude towards the Russians — and to hell with it — I wrote above — you don’t want to be a brother — you will be the security band (I hope you understand that this is a fortification term) is your only choice - to be the wife of three husbands just will not work ... alas ... anyway, even the foreground is a mutual benefit ....

We want equal relations, dear, and your passage about the wife of three husbands, I personally consider it offensive.
As for my personal attitude to Russians, it is extremely positive for normal Russians. And in Astana, by the way, the vast majority of those. At least in my environment there are no outright racists and chauvinists.

By the way, and in cities with a predominantly Russian population earlier ... who began to occupy ALL the main posts from the administration to the police and the director of the plant ... can you tell me? And where did the former go? .. I'm talking about discrimination ... especially since there were a minority of such cities and they were industrial ..... and industry died there ... No? .... and

I will not deny such facts with foam at the mouth, there was everything.
However, the main reason for the exodus of the Russian population was the terrible economic situation in the country at the beginning of the 90. Especially in 1993-94.
I well remember the blackouts, delays in pensions and salaries, as well as the thermometer in our apartment, which in winter showed 6 degrees above zero ...
Industry, in some places died, because inter-union ties were broken. There was no one to sell products to previous sales markets, and on the international market nobody needed it. An example is the Almaty factory, where torpedoes were produced. Is it our fault that the plant came to an end?

[smile]

Zymran
For the "wife and husbands" I apologize ... I am not a gift, and I also sometimes get carried away ... but for the fact that "there was everything" - thank you very much. The very admission that "there was everything" gives reason to believe that, once you understand this, it will not happen again. and discourages poking around in this .... if all your compatriots on this site would have a similar opinion, I would not have thought to make a row.

[Zymran]

Smile, by anything I mean manifestations of domestic nationalism, the priority is the employment of Kazakhs, etc.
But not "what was going on with the Russians".

[smile]

Zymran Conclusion
And the last ... yes. We sometimes confuse you .... and I, too, at least kill me (I clearly distinguish only Dagestanis, Chechens and Ingushs ... without even seeing my face, in accent ... in any case, I was never mistaken) ... .but I don’t care what nationality you have, honestly .... and, by the way, I’m enraged by the high raised on the forum about migrants ...- these unfortunate Tajiks, Uzbeks, illiterates, because their government brought them to the pen, who came to us for the most dirty work, so that their families did not die of hunger, I only feel sorry for .... moreover, they, unlike the Caucasian ethnic groups, do not greatly spoil the criminal statistics ... and I I really didn’t like the comment of Irbis, whom I respect, that he pays you the Central Asians with the same coin ..... but his hand didn’t even bark at him ... honestly ... reading the comments of your compatriots, I catch myself on the thought that reading some of your compatriots on this thread I don’t want to pull our boors ....

That’s such a misfortune ... I don’t know if I have brotherly feelings for you ... because I don’t give a damn what nationality you are - your own means your own ... if I happen to fight for any of you, for me yours old people, women and children will be no less valuable than my own ... probably this is our main difference, I was brought up just like that and do not know how to ..... ..... only when, somewhere, they start kicking Russian-speakers, I'm interested in the nationality of the kickers .... so as not to hang on the innocent ...

You know .. I originally wanted to write a slender, licked structured comment .... I started to write ... and got out of control .... as the flow of consciousness went, so let it be. Therefore, I apologize in advance for inconsistency, confusion, and also that I might have missed something ... The end ... :)))

[Andrey KZ]

Vladimir! It can be seen that you are a literate and reasonable person, but your idea of ​​Kazakhstan is based on myths, primarily on myths about South Kazakhstan. In Almaty, a taxi driver once asked, "how do you live there in Shymkent, the whole mafia is there", I joked, “the whole mafia has already moved to you, and moved to Astana.” I will give one example. I have a cousin who lives in Ulan-Uda. I got married there, and they went to visit us. In Novosibirsk, a woman sat in a compartment in their compartment. We talked about where you were going, to visit Chimkent. She was so indignant, what do you mean, your life and health are not dear to you, think at least about a child, in Alma-ata it is dangerous for Russians to go out into the street, and in Chimkent they generally cut Russian heads. And so frightened all the way. Sanya, my sister's husband, said that he was really ready to change to Almaty for the return train, but his wife, through a scandal, forced us to go further. In general, we went fishing with him, for crayfish, walked night Shymkent. Now they almost every year come to visit us, fortunately, both work in Russian Railways and a round-trip ticket is free. do it yourself of course.

[smile]

Andrey KZ
My opinion about Kazakhstan is far from as bad as it might seem ... if you noticed, I speak on the Kazakh topic only in one case, when it brings your compatriots .... and a significant part of them are not just in a hurry to admit that we no worse than them, but blames me as a provocateur and chauvinist and even got me a nickname ... children, honestly ... :)))) You will also draw conclusions yourself ... :))) and I really respect you too , without any emoticons. Goodbye! Everything will be fine, anyway, do not quarrel! :))))

[Zymran]

That’s such a misfortune ... I don’t know if I have brotherly feelings for you ... because I don’t give a damn what nationality you are - your own means your own ... if I happen to fight for any of you, for me yours old people, women and children will be no less valuable than my own ... probably this is our main difference, I was brought up just like that and do not know how to ..... ..... only when, somewhere, they start kicking Russian-speakers, I'm interested in the nationality of the kickers .... so as not to hang on the innocent ...

Frankly, I don’t know what to answer. If you speak sincerely, I just silently shake your hand.

[smile]

Zymran
Thank you. I was absolutely sincere. And I double thank you for the fact that it was your position and your questions that gave me the opportunity to fully express my opinion ..

[Marek Rozny]

quote = smile] most of your compatriots have a grudge against us, [/ quote]
[quote = smile] believes that he has the right to indiscriminately insult the Russian people, [/ quote]
[quote = smile] reads that at the same time we do not have the right to even have fun [/ quote]
got it already ... who touches the Russians here? highlight the phrase that "indiscriminately insulted the Russian people."
Lyndon wrote there on emotions - but so this is the answer to a more vile message from your relative. At the same time, Lyndon wrote that such shoviks cast a shadow on the Russian people. It is already clear that he clearly separates your ur.odov magic at the head of Nazism and the Russian people.
RESPONDED TO THE QUOTES OF KAZAKH, WHERE THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN OPPOSED IN RESPONSE. We will carry out a debriefing.
At the same time, I am a wagon of direct insults from the "Russians" against the Kazakhs, I can collect Kamaz in any article.
ZY My advice is to drive these "refugees from Kazakhstan" and from Russia. This is an empty, useless, crooked, bare-handed foam, not Russians (to whom Kazakhs are respectful). In addition to poor manure and whining, they can not produce anything else.
Those who moved to their homeland for family, educational, economic reasons are usually quite normal people. But the "refugees" are a disgrace to the Russian nation, banal drones and losers, imagining themselves "golden-handed and golden-headed." They did not do them in the Kazakh SSR either, either in the independent KZ, or in their historical homeland.

[smile]

Marek Rozny
Marek, if you need me to highlight ... you're smart. Do you really think there's nothing to highlight? it’s true only tomorrow at about the same time .... and we evaluate only this Russian site ... and no other .... I hope the hint is clear? :))))
Marek, here your colleagues just didn’t call me here :)))) .... by the way, all the curses that I used against you and your colleagues are exclusively the words that were used against me :)))), believe me . my vocabulary is richer, just this is a principled position :))))
And do not touch, please, our refugees ..... due to professional deformation, I can clearly see that some of those who received refugee status are not at all .... but there are those who did not receive this status ... alone of which I myself arranged ... damn it, I live alone in a three-story building .... and in 2006 she hosted a family, picked up (in other words, you can't say), who lived in the Kosmodemyanovsk library .... they never got a status refugees, but I helped them a little bit to get on their feet .... I don’t want to say anything more .... just a question, did Kazakh refugees from Russia live in your home? .... I don’t even want to swear with you .. I'm a provocateur .... you are tired of me ... everything .... :))))

[scientist]

I completely agree with the feeling that some provocateurs and Natsiks write. I would like to delete all my comments in general to leave the site. But believe me, the majority of Kazakhs are very friendly and hospitable people. I have a lot of Kazakh friends and in very high positions and simple robots from villages for whom honor and conscience are not empty words and in the most difficult days they helped more than my Russian relatives.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: scientist

Believe me, the majority of Kazakhs are very friendly and hospitable people.

Scientist have you forgotten anything ??!
You always write good things about Kazakhs at first ... and then ....
Why aren’t you in your own repertoire now ??

[scientist]

in life, not everything is straightforward and square

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Essenger

An outpost doesn't make good sense. No Kazakhstan is an outpost.

Do not worry. write that Russia is an outpost of Kazakhstan on the western border against the European countries of NATO. it will be an adequate answer.

[Semurg]

Yes it is. The ring has no end. Russia-Kazakhstan resembles a ring that has no end, and you won’t untangle it like a ball of thread pulling the end.

[IRBIS]

Quote: Prishtina

we must begin to integrate and create _ a single command (Asia). Even if in the direction of Middle Asia the command will be tied to the Ministry of Defense of Kazashkhtan. This is their area and it is easier for them to navigate.

Do you have a desire to fight for Kazakhstan? Or fight in Kazakhstan? These, as they say in Odessa, are two big differences.

[silver_roman]

Of course, integration, friendship within the framework of the Eurasian Union is fine, but there is one BUT!
In fact, the initiative to create "EAC" is an initiative of two people and the question seems to me quite logical: what will happen when these people leave the pedestal of power? all the efforts made by both the heads of state and the two fraternal peoples under the pressure of some kind of liberal and other nonsense will not sink into the past ???
I hope that our unity and striving for a brighter future will be stronger than all obstacles. which will be clearly. The same Mrs. Clinton said this directly. I hope so. I’ll live to see that moment. when she drowns in her foam from her mouth!

[Zymran]

Depends on which course the successors will choose. I don’t know how it is in Russia, but for now it’s completely unclear who it will be.

[silver_roman]

in the Russian Federation in this regard, the uncertainty is no less.
A tough leader is needed who will destroy the bureaucratic and corrupt apparatus, and not lick his ass. A leader who will not "bend" to the West, who will always be able to defend his position - the position of his state.
there are simply no such people now. Putin should already think about it, and Nazarbayev too.

[Zymran]

Corruption is the main problem of Kazakhstan, but I hope that the authorities will create such conditions when living honestly will be stupidly more profitable than stealing.
Another thing is that such conditions will be unprofitable in the first place by those in power themselves.

[ed65b]

Come on, sing songs about fraternal peoples. What Kazakh brother am I? he is a Muslim I am a Christian, he is a Turk, I am Russian. Belorus and Ukrainian are closer to me in kinship, but not Kazakh. let them live on their own and I don’t need to drag me into their family and I don’t call them to mine.

[Zymran]

In principle, I share your opinion, you need to be friends, but to settle in a communal apartment is already superfluous.

[Max_Bauder]

Zymran  Today, 13:09 ↑ New

I think he is a mishandled Cossack, sowing discord specially, who asked him ?!

[Zymran]

Well no. Sincerity is always better than flattery.

[Max_Bauder]

ed65b (3)  Today, 12:59 PM

You are a bad person, very, as they say: do you have dad mom? why so angry ?! here it is straight

keep bad thoughts to yourself and don’t infect other shit, brother is not brother, as if someone is asking you

[smile]

Max_Bauder
Hello.
I have a question.
I understand why you didn’t like the comment ed65b, if I were a Kazakh, I would not like it either. But ...
A little higher on the branch there is another comment -Quotes:

Lindon KZ Today, 12:26 ↑
Russians do not have friends because they communicate with everyone, either a boss or a fool. On an equal footing .....

Nomad (1) KZ Today, 10:44
There could be no Kazakh nationalism in Soviet times. I won’t argue about now, I’m already tired. But everyday Russian chauvinism blossomed and groin, and then and now .....
End Quote.

Why are you interested in dad and mom ed65b but don’t pull off your chauvinists? Or is shit allowed to water us? Or is that your impartiality? Or is that the price of your sincerity?

The question is, do you have a dad, mom? What about conscience? If there is, why don’t you jerk off your chauvinists and overgrown nationalists? Please reply.

[ed65b]

The Russians gave the Kazakhs, and not only them, but all of Turkestan medicine, education, factories, factories, virgin soil, they taught mining to teach metal, how to instill cleanliness, and what? I hear about the great Kazakhs, about the Kazakh empire, about the great and mighty batyrs who kobyrak all were killed by cancer. And here a white man came and broke everything down and built cities from yurts, drove them out to apartments, overpowered Mersh children in batches, exposed them to the gardens, determined the population, who were completely illiterate, taught us to write. And one thing, we were the smartest to go all out. Suitcase station Russia.

[Alibekulu]

Quote: ed65b

And then a white man came and broke everything and built the city

Yeah Current ..

Quote: Andrey57 city ​​(Uralsk) in which more than 90% of the population was Russian

Cities were built by Kazakhs, but for some reason Russians lived ?? !!

[ed65b]

Because the Kazakhs, as a nomadic people, are used to living in yurts. like our reindeer herders. Go lure them to the cities. so are the Kazakhs that I see about and sing.

[Andrey KZ]

Eduard, you either do not know anything about Kazakhstan, or deliberately write lies about it. The Kazakhs are well aware that the Russians have done for Kazakhstan.

And the result is one we are the smartest went all tries. Suitcase station Russia.

Well, this does not apply to Kazakhstan. The attitude of Kazakhs to Russian culture can be more or less accurately expressed by a quote-

The great Abay once said that it was through the Russian language that the Kazakhs would join the spiritual values ​​of the world. Nobody argues with this. The Russian language and Russian culture, even with all the excesses of the Soviet regime, played an outstanding role in the spiritual enrichment and European enlightenment of the Kazakh people, and for this, many thanks. The role of the Russian language as a means of interethnic communication is obvious to everyone, and its integration functions in the post-Soviet space are understandable.

Pushkin’s language is protected by the Constitution of the country of Abai, which states, “that in state organizations and local governments, the Russian language is officially used on a par with Kazakh”. Therefore, the introduction of paperwork in the Kazakh language does not mean the cessation of the use of the Russian language in state bodies, and all of them must clearly comply with the current legislation in the language sphere.

[ed65b]

Yeah aware. why then feces watered? I have been reading about the great Kazakh-Turkic batyrs and Russian rams for a year now. Although in life, everything is on the back.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: smile

Nomad (1) KZ Today, 10:44
There could be no Kazakh nationalism in Soviet times. I won’t argue about now, I’m already tired. But everyday Russian chauvinism blossomed and groin, and then and now .....

so that they knew - in the Kazakh SSR, everyday Russian nationalism was terry. Russian-language Kazakh newspapers openly wrote about this problem in the 20s and 30s, calling for an end to this negative phenomenon. then the topic was "silenced" until the events of 1986, when during the debriefing, even the first leaders of the KGB of the Kazakh SSR openly declared that Kazakh nationalism arose in response to local Russian chauvinism.
Yes, you can talk to some types from Kazakhstan here on the site, who think of themselves as supposedly adequate internationalists. One is openly indignant at the fact that Russian girls meet with Kazakhs - "Ch.urks", the other madam - "internationalist" does not understand what is so seditious in the fact that she considers Kazakhs to be people who can never be trusted.
My girlfriend is Ukrainian. she openly tells me that her parents consider Kazakhs to be second-class people. I can only grin. they don’t tell me this in person, of course, when we are sitting at the table, but what's the point of my woman talking to her parents?
all Kazakhs are aware that many Russian Kazakhstanis simply hide their arrogant attitude towards the Kazakhs. Do not forget that in addition to the Kazakhs, I live here Germans, Koreans, Dungans, and Greeks. and Russian Natsik very often say this in their presence, thinking that the Germans and Koreans are in solidarity with them. in our society there are no secrets. it’s enough for me in an unfamiliar Russian company to impersonate a Tatar (fortunately, face allows), so I can often hear frankly fascist conversations addressed to the Kazakhs. I came across this more than once or twice.
this usually applies to "Soviet" Russians. the new generation is much less susceptible to such snobbery, because they really grew up at another time, when they don’t hear every five minutes, that they live in a country that was built by the “great Russian creator people” (and the rest of the sheep herded) ... They think that before the Stalinist reforms, the Russian peasant was somehow different from the Kazakh ... You see a guy named Ed65b? We still have these in bulk. The main part has already been dumped, but some are still sitting here. The funny thing is that even those "victims of Kazakh nationalism" who here on the site talk about how they fled from the oppressors, do not hesitate to write that they left their parents in Kazakhstan and are in no hurry to "evacuate" them from here. Would it occur to you to leave your parents among the evil nationalist foreigners? Ask any of them)))

[Drummer]

I’m Russian here, but I don’t like the comment on ed65b (provocative in form, silly in content). And what Lindon wrote about the Russian mentality, I understand well and believe that he is right.

[Max_Bauder]

It’s with my conscience and others, since everything’s in order, ed65b is still wrong, because it’s pouring mud, you definitely won’t notice this for me, about chauvinists, my son is not responsible for my father, I don’t see Kazakh nationalists here if I see Of course I will condemn if someone unjustly insults you write to the administrator, he is sure fair and will punish the talker of the fool.

[smile]

Max_Bauder
And you have everything with sight right? Do you look like a fascist who sees nothing strange when they burn Russians and Jews .... I in no way equate you to fascists ..... but they are similar in logic .....
I repeat the question that you yourself asked with pleasure .... do you remember who? .... do you have a dad, do you have a mom?

[ed65b]

I'm not evil, I just have a good memory.

[romb]

I'm not evil, I just have a good memory.

Only for some reason you have it some kind of selective.
As for what they built, it is for the Kazakhs - nonsense and myth. If you take in this case, then the Kazakhs fed and dressed millions of people, some of whom fought on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, and the second, those who were civilians, from among those deported and evacuated. One of my family (there were only women men, all with 41 were at the front) sent more than four thousand cattle and more than a dozen thousand sheep for the benefit of the front, and this is millions of stewed meat and thousands of short fur coats for the Red Army.
And now, at every step, the Kazakhs yell that we fed and dressed the Russians?
In short, everything that we, citizens of the USSR, did for the benefit of our common Motherland.

[ed65b]

So they yell at every turn. Have you fed millions? If virgin lands were Kazakhs, they were only suppliers of lamb. and then in question. And about the stew, it was mainly produced by the USA according to our technology and especially for us.

[romb]

Let's not confuse the times of the Second World War and the stages of development of virgin lands.
It was not necessary to go to the virgin lands of the Kazakhs, because they already lived in these territories. By the way, it was the thoughtless use of land that actually led to the general degradation of sown areas, which ultimately forced the USSR to begin mass purchases of winter wheat varieties in the United States.

.... and about the stew it was mainly produced by the USA ...

Baby talk!
Semipalatinsk meat processing plant named after M.I. Kalinina existed from the mid-thirties ready, and at that time was one of the three largest meat plants in the USSR. With the beginning of the Second World War, the Moscow and Leningrad MKs actually did not function. Moreover, the exclusive role of this meat processing plant in providing the Red Army with domestic products has been repeatedly noted by the political leadership.

[ed65b]

But you drive it. what Semipalatinsk ???? the only stew plant which went to the State Reserve of the USSR and now Udinsky Udinsky, Russia. and rams there from Mongolia. Minus to you

[romb]

... the only stew plant ...

Read: http://www.semey-smk.kz/about.htm

[ed65b]

What are you busting me with BBB? I myself took the carrion out of the state reserve and drove it. And this topic, unlike you, seems to know better.

[romb]

Eh .... Are you by nature like that, or do you pretend that you did not understand?

Here is an excerpt from the site of the meat factory:

The team worked with great enthusiasm these days - they were shipped to the front overplanned meat, canned food and sausages, orders for medical preparations were fulfilled without delay. The workers of the enterprise enthusiastically approved the voluntary contribution of savings for the construction of military equipment.
For valiant work in fulfilling government tasks to supply the Red Army and Navy with food, the workers of the plant were awarded the Order of the Red Banner of Labor and the Badge of Honor, the medals “For Labor Distinction” and “For Labor Valor”.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: romb

One of my family (there were only women - men, all with 41 were at the front)

they don’t like to remember in Russia that the Kazakhs actually sent almost all men to the war. only children up to 15-16 years old and indigenous women and evacuated from European republics remained in the Kazakh SSR. already in 1943-1944 there was no one to call from Kazakhstan, all the men left for the war. In the middle of the war, 40% of the Red Army consisted of national minorities. All sorts of ed65b do not remember this. They also do not remember that the Kazakh SSR actively participated in the restoration of the RSFSR, Ukrainian SSR and BSSR after the war. The fact that Kazakhstan gave 90% of lead during the war is not remembered.
They know the history of the USSR during the war only from Soviet films, where only some Russians are at war, well, there is always a Caucasian actor to make it almost politically correct.
People like ed65b were told that Moscow was defended by mythical "Siberians", who were simply not physically present at the time the Germans advanced in the Moscow direction.
And it will never reach them that if it were not for the Almaty 316th Division and the Aktobe 312nd, then Moscow would have been unambiguously taken by the Germans in the fall of 1941, since it was naked, and the divisions formed from Moscow militias were routed without special effort. And only after the Kazakhstan people stopped German offensive and when the divisions arrived from the Far East (and then from Siberia) - the Germans were driven back from the capital.
With these eds65b, it is unknown that the Americans carried out industrialization in the first two five-year plans, and everything else was built on their tracing lines. What to take from them? It is easier for them to believe that ALL stew was American than to recognize the merits of some Kazakhs, Buryats, Tuvans, and a Mongol in providing food for the meat of the Red Army.

[ed65b]

Well, really ridiculed))))))) of course, this is Kazakhs 140 million. Children)))). Here is the real product of Kazakh school education. I even agree that the first person was Kazakh))))))

[Semurg]

Quote: ed65b

I'm not evil, I just have a good memory.

He’s not evil, sometimes he loves to troll. Especially in the themes for Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan, he gives spice to the soup as a seasoning.

[ed65b]

Semurg, why did you reveal the secret?

[Nomad]

Quote: smile

I'm tired of arguing with people like you too .... but, damn it, if you're a chauvinist

On their own people are not judged.

Quote: smile

well, don’t make us give you back ...

Wai, scared! Here, and so on, Kazakhstan has been poured by a lot of "experts" on Kazakhstan like you. Everything that the meager little mind of a Russian chauvinist is capable of betraying, I already know by heart.

Quote: smile

without spitting in the direction of the Russian your life ceases?

What spitting? I just stated the fact that there are many chauvinists among the Russians. This is obvious to everyone except the Russian chauvinists themselves. For example, your skinheads and others like them are probably Red Cross employees or some kind of cultural exchange organization. From your posts, by the way, it also smells pretty good, you know ...

Quote: smile

it’s just touched by your hardened truth that a significant part of Russians are chauvinists

It is touched by your nagging about the oppression of Russians in the former republics, which you yourself probably have never been to, but you heard something about this from your second cousin’s uncle. Like children who at night looking at each other, horror stories tell, and then they themselves begin to believe in them.

Quote: smile

you yourself are not able to understand what you are carrying?

You yourself re-read your confused and indistinct post and try to understand what you yourself wanted to say. The impression is that he wrote a non-Russian. One thing is clear - the phrase "Russian chauvinist" somehow infuriates you. Apparently, you do not understand the difference between the phrase "Russian chauvinist" and "Russians are chauvinists". Well, this is already a problem of your language proficiency.

[smile]

Nomad
1. Any negative in relation to the chauvinistic part of the Kazakhs will be poured out by me exclusively in response to these petty nationalists and not to the whole of Kazakhstan, namely to them. I have not made a single exception to this rule for all the time I was in this forum. If you say otherwise, then you are a liar. If you are not lying, then you cannot have claims to me ... decide.
2. I ascertained the facts. By the way, in all of Russia, there were just a few skins, there were many more Natsiks in Kazakhstan, look at this thread .... how many skins are here and how many Kazakh chauvinists who muddy Russia and Russians are terribly offended when they are put in place .. ..and this is a fact ascertained by me ... :))) of which it is not clear? Moreover, none of the Russians did not deny that we had renegades, chauvinistic-minded .... such lies are your prerogative .... when will you stop lying?
3. Yes, if possible, I defended the rights of Russian speakers ... sometimes with weapons in my hands ... and not for you to try to imagine what I saw and where I was ... your imagination is too poor. By the way, you know very well that the Russians were never SCARED when they were oppressed or even killed ... nagging and screeching are common to petty nationalists. who lift it as soon as they are put in place ....
4. Wah, I liked the passage about the Russian language .... if you are not able to read complex text, this is not scary. But I am innocent of this ... :))) What didn’t come to you that it was not the presence of chauvinists that revolted us, but the impudent lies that you didn’t have such and don’t exist .... I really don’t have a drop of Russian blood .... :)))) I have never hidden this from the Kazakh nationalists either. Of which I sometimes jerked about it well know ........ :))))
and more, tell me. why didn’t you answer directly to my comment, but drove it down? :)))
The attempt to take a break did not succeed ... nullification ... and it will not succeed, because I answered these your words:
There could be no Kazakh nationalism in Soviet times. . But everyday Russian chauvinism blossomed and smelled both then and now. Now in Russia, then throughout the USSR. As they say, in a stranger’s eye, but in his ... I won’t say that all Russian chauvinists are by no means, but alas, there are enough of them. Including on this site.
I would like to ask: do you have a dad, do you have a mom? ....... So where is your conscience? :)))))

[essenger]

Quote: smile

how many skins are here and how many Kazakh chauvinists who have muddled Russia

But there are definitely no skins among the Kazakhs, I assure you. I’m not sure about the chauvinists, but there are certainly nationalists. But there are definitely no skins.
There is one difference between Kazakhstan and Russia. They do not kill us because of nationality, unlike Russia.

[smile]

essenger
Your local national chauvinists. presented even here are the same skins. only Kazakh. No difference.
Firstly, they killed more than they got from a miserable pile of skins to all other nationalities. including Russian.
Secondly, our skins are poisoned with us like mad dogs. and your chauvinists are the pride of the nation
third. we didn’t even have a single Kazakh woman fired on ethnic grounds ... tens of thousands of refugees left you .... and they were killed ... though not without a lot. like somewhere (thanks) only you. unlike us. We didn’t conduct public processes on ethnic hatred .... but we did, for all our shortcomings ...
only an absolutely dishonest and unscrupulous person will write what you wrote in this comment .. or an ordinary petty national chauvinist ...
If you allow yourself to write this on a Russian site. I can imagine what is happening there on your Kazakh sites ... or are you defending Russians there?

[Drummer]

Smile, have you lived or been at least once in Kazakhstan? So far it’s clear that in our realities you don’t understand nicherta.

[essenger]

Quote: smile

our skins are poisoned with us like mad dogs. and your chauvinists are the pride of the nation

Your fascists, together with the police, organize raids in the markets. I didn’t notice that the cat poisoned them.
Now give the names, who are the Kazakh chauvinists by the pride of the nation?

Quote: smile

ordinary petty national chauvinist ...

Are you talking about me?

Quote: smile

If you allow yourself to write this on a Russian site. I can imagine what is happening there on your Kazakh sites ... or are you defending Russians there?

"VO" is the only forum where I sit. In other sites, I do not leave comments at all, not in Russian, not in Kazakh. He can read all my comments, I am absolutely correct in relation to the opponent and do not allow myself attacks against other peoples. During the year of staying on this site, I have not received more than one warning, unlike you.

[IRBIS]

Quote: smile

If you say otherwise, then you are a liar. If you are not lying, then you cannot have claims to me ... decide.

The difference is that you address him to "you", and he immediately switched to "you". Well, plus other rudeness.
And for the oppression of Russians in the republics of Central Asia, I personally answer the Asians here in Russia. As they say - all I can ...

[zhandosbai]

Come visit us. It’s better to see everything with your own eyes than to read false, provocative comments.

[Marek Rozny]

Nomad, Smile’s logic is as simple as five cents. If a Kazakh recognizes himself as a led younger brother - he normal Kazakh. If a Kazakh is surprised by such words, then Kazakh nationalist. Well, if you still allow yourself to disagree with the thesis that the Russian people fed the Kazakh people the whole history with gingerbread cookies, then the interlocutor means terry chauvinist.
Smiles in my head cannot form a picture - how can this Russian people be sinless? And how can neighbors not be doing it three times?
Well, and the seditious idea that there are nationalists among the Russians is a sure sign for Smile Kazakh fascist.
And smileys will never understand why Kazakh interlocutors consider them ordinary chauvinists. After all, they are convinced that this is not nationalism / chauvinism, but an alleged statement of fact. In Russia, almost every day they kill on a national basis - but there, in their opinion, there is no problem of Russian nationalism. In Kazakhstan, Russians live almost more comfortably than in Russia, but the smiles are convinced that in Kazakhstan they have made Russians "slaves and prostitutes."

[Nomad]

Quote: YuriWhite

in the temporarily lost Russian territory of Kazakhstan

Well, here everything is immediately clear. Either schizophrenia, or delirium tremens in the last stage. People even did not read Soviet history textbooks, but all the same ...

[romb]

Well then, we will assume that Russia is a temporarily lost territory of the Golden Horde.

[Max_Bauder]

in fact this is so, tell Batu at the time that those whom he enthralled in the future would rule his lands and peoples, he would choke on such a fantasy, but who ??? these slaves ???

=) if it doesn’t sound politically incorrect, then I ask you to stop considering the other nations as inferior to yourself, and issue provocative posts

In the movie, the planet is ape, macaques were also surprised that long ago people ruled them

[Zymran]

Read the article by Kostyukov "Was the Golden Horde a Kypchak Khanate"

[yan]

The states of the entire post-Soviet space will somehow come to interaction, but only if the economic component prevails, and not the political one; in the latter case, the intrigues of politicians, and in some moments, liberal nagging will never bring unity to take place.

[Stepnogorets]

While in Russia, such as armata and pensioners, preoccupied with their own greatness, will poke at the keyboard, and the administrators publish their nasty things, the generation of those born and those who left the USSR is leaving! Kazakhstvnu need to be friends with the enemies of Russia so that the "elder brother" as they call themselves, does not drool over "Pavlograd" (they do not even know the correct name of the city, but still "take the nada" there)! I don’t know what Russia is doomed to what and with whom alliance, you have our own wedding there, we will have our own! And thank God that in the next generation Kazakhs will talk in Kazakh, and not in Russian like we who left the USSR! And you don't belong in that country! What kind of program for resettlement of compatriots is working for you, there is something not very active, Russians who are "oppressed" are leaving us. I see no activity! Tsigel tsigel ai liu liu!

[Max_Bauder]

Yes, normal dude, good people live here and there, and the "rotten" write nasty things and leave, they don't like anywhere, they are looking for any reason. up to discrimination, there will be no racial or national, they will come up with sexual orientation, the same people go abroad to the United States, you just do not need to pay attention to them, I call such traitors, because where the Motherland was born there.
I know there are many Kazakhs in Omsk and Orenburg, they serve the Russian Armed Forces, and this is normal, their ancestors lived there a long time ago, so it doesn’t matter whose flag is on those lands, let them protect that country, for the land is there, I would be in their place also did

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Max_Bauder

I know there are many Kazakhs in Omsk and Orenburg, they serve the Russian Armed Forces, and this is normal, their ancestors lived there a long time ago, so it doesn’t matter whose flag is on those lands, let them protect that country, for the land is there, I would be in their place also did

I am a native of Orenburg) nowhere are so many Kazakhs visible anywhere, as among the local military and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, my own uncle lives in Novotroitsk (near Orenburg) - the Order of Courage. his father generally has a bunch of Russian awards (including for the Caucasus).
In all areas where Kazakhs are indigenous from Astrakhan to Altai, Kazakhs make up the lion's share of the military and police. That among the BB patrol you see Kazakhs there, that you see Kazakh names on the obelisks of the dead in hot spots. In Astrakhan (where the vast majority of Russians have long been) on the monument to those killed in Afghanistan and Chechnya, almost half of the names are Kazakh, Tatar and Nogai.
For the Kazakhs, this is their native land, and therefore they serve in the Russian army without any attempts to slope.

[ed65b]

Here in the Altai I did not observe something of the Kazakhs. In your opinion, whose eyes are narrow, all Kazakhs))))) Shors will be offended. can beat. Yes, and reduce the ardor, Astrakhan, there are still Kalmyks living nearby.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: ed65b

Here in the Altai I did not observe something of the Kazakhs. In your opinion, whose eyes are narrow, all Kazakhs))))) Shors will be offended. can beat. Yes, and reduce the ardor, Astrakhan, there are still Kalmyks living nearby.

In the Altai Mountains, Kazakhs are not only present, but also the third largest nation after the Russians and Altai, and in some regions of Altai, more than 50% are Kazakhs.
Well, don’t scare the Kazakhs with Shors))))))))))))))))) Kazakh with Altai Turks will find the language in three counts.

As for Astrakhan and Kalmyks, this is not Dzungarian land, but Kazakh and Nogai. Kalmyks appeared there just 5 minutes ago.

In short, learn the ethno-geography of your country.

[Marek Rozny]

The father of the singer Alsou will build a mosque in Altai in honor of the Kazakh heroes of the Soviet Union

Politician and entrepreneur Ralif Safin, the father of the singer Alsu, who represents the Altai Republic in the Federation Council, intends to build a mosque in the Kazakh village of Turat in the Ust-Kan region in honor of the USSR heroes, immigrants from Turat Kydran Tugambaev and Zhanibek Eleusov, writes IslamNews.ru.

He stated this when he visited the national wrestling tournament kazaksha-kures, which was held in the republic and dedicated to the memory of heroes from Turata.

“Ralif Rafilovich was delighted with the Turinians. Upon learning that an old house was bought and converted into a mosque in this aul, he expressed a desire to build a classical Islamic church in Turat, said Amangeldy Kobdabaev, representative of the Siberian mufti in Altai (in the DUMACHR system), to Islamic News Agency.

Recall that Kazakhs live in Turat, whose ancestors were converted to Orthodoxy in the mid-19th century by missionaries of the Altai spiritual mission in the village of Black Anuy. After the revolution, as soon as the influence of the church waned, the descendants of the formally baptized “fell away” back to Islam. They left Black Anui and founded a new village in the neighborhood called Turata. Most of the inhabitants of the aul bear the names given to their ancestors at baptism - the Ugryumovs, Smirnovs, Istomins, Sokolovs, Volkovs, Kuskovs, Evtifeevs, Zadontsevs. The mosque in the old house was opened last year on Kurban Bayram.

In addition, according to A. Kobdabaev, Ralif Safin promised to assist in the organization of the Museum of Heroes of the Soviet Union K. Tugambaev and Zh. Eleusov in Turat, as well as provide three cars as prizes to the winners of the next Kazaksha-Kures tournament, which due in the Altai Mountains next year.
==========
So tell them that there are no Kazakhs in Altai. Let's see to whom the face is filled))))

[Alibekulu]

Quote: Stepnogorets

Kazakhstan needs to be friends with the enemies of Russia

Stepnogorets salem .. All the rules Retired woman, Smail and others like them professional provocateurs And, grandma, I think she taught "History of the CPSU" ..
And Kazakhstan, like the Russian Federation, is really doomed to friendship - history, geography, kinship and friendship finally. And in the end:
A familiar devil is better than an unfamiliar one.
Sometimes, yearning for a new way, a naive thought wanders:
Much nicer than a stranger, - For years proven devil.

R.S .: I myself had a period when I read Russian choviks I wanted to send the scattered ... well, I sent
So it will pass ...

[smile]

Alibekulu
Tell me why you consider the answer to the Kazakh chauvinist provocateur. how is provocation? :))) You cannot help but see what words I answer, and you cannot help but understand what I didn’t like about these words — chauvinism ... Kazakh ... and nevertheless you begin to expose ..... Well, and how then to dignify you? An amateur provocateur? - in view of the fact that the attempt to dodge and blame others for their sins is not covered by anything? ....
It is this approach that makes it possible to doubt the possible doom of friendship, if there are many like you .... I don’t know how many among you are like you .... I hope the Kazakh people are not as clogged with chauvinism as it may seem when you read the comments of immigrants from Kazakhstan on this thread ....
I really hope that you will still recover .... although it is unlikely ... having read even here. on the Russian site, Kazakhstan shoviks, it becomes obvious what they were before ...... if they consider themselves moderate now ...

[Alibekulu]

Quote: smile

Tell me why you consider the answer to the Kazakh chauvinist provocateur. how is provocation? :)))

I will answer "in Russian" directly - because it is. As for the "Kazakh shovik-provocateur", your "colleagues" made him good yesterday That he didn’t even leave today ..

[Quote] Armata RU Today, 05: 52 | An ideological impasse?
In the notorious sifting no sites? Write more, more Russians will know what are you g ... Even Kazan Tatars consider you savages
Armata RU Today, 05: 50 | An ideological impasse?
local Kazakh fascists showed their Russophobia,
Armata RU Yesterday, 03: 49 | An ideological impasse?
He latent p ... Kazakh! wink
Armata RU Yesterday, 00: 36 | An ideological impasse?
Deer is a noble animal, which can not be said about steppe rams...
Armata RU Yesterday, 00: 10 | An ideological impasse?
Ahah Kazakh fascist burst, so you showed your true identity!
Armata RU 18 August 2013 23: 54 | An ideological impasse?
You bedding, you and your children have no future in KZ. Not your first lizoblyudsky comment
Armata RU 18 August 2013 13: 24 | An ideological impasse?
I wanted to say nationalist (Kazakh fascist)?
Armata RU 18 August 2013 12: 26 | An ideological impasse?
Your gumilyov scientific prostituteits custom "works" stink Turkophilia. With the same success, you can bring the readers of Kazakhs ready to lick the Russian s .. boot!

grafrozow RU Yesterday, 00: 36 | An ideological impasse?
these Kazakhs are representatives of the whole nation, simply according to the laws of physics floats on the surface, it is noticeable immediately ....
grafrozow RU 18 August 2013 21: 36 | An ideological impasse?
.., I got it by the most I want, who brought them, one hundred heh .. in the mouth and in ...
grafrozow RU 18 August 2013 20: 55 | An ideological impasse?
, this is "oink-oink" you are in zh ... kissing,
grafrozow RU 18 August 2013 20: 32 | An ideological impasse?
Do not toss beads in front of a pig .... Do not understand !!!

Retired RU 18 August 2013 15: 31 | An ideological impasse?
only "sowing", "bastards"
Kazakhs do not have their own roots
Pensioner RU 18 August 2013 16: 43 | An ideological impasse?
even drown in shit