Military Review

City-front Voronezh. How trampled military glory ...

84
Summer 2013 of the year. In one of the Voronezh training centers there is a meeting with a German delegation of schoolchildren, students and teachers as part of the cross years of Russia in Germany and Germany in Russia. The topic of one of the seminars at this meeting was coordinated in advance and related to the 70 anniversary of the liberation of Voronezh from the Nazi invaders.


City-front Voronezh. How trampled military glory ...

Stela on Victory Square in Voronezh


The provocative topic was originally, some readers will say. But the purpose of the seminar, and indeed the whole meeting, is in fact that the younger generations of the two states have the opportunity to learn history, during which there were a lot of bloody pages. And the knowledge of historical retrospectives will certainly contribute to the fact that new generations of Russians and Germans do not repeat the mistakes of the past in their bilateral relations both at the state and at the domestic and civil levels. Although to whom provocations are seen in such events, he will bring the whole essence of the meeting to them.

The meeting was held in a completely on-duty format: the speaker - questions - answers ... Everything is grand, calm, with interest ... Many looked at the clock, getting ready to move, as they say, to the sweet table: samovar, fresh pastries, berry fruit drinks and everything in this kind of. As they say, nothing foreshadowed. But after one of the reports of a Voronezh student, whom she decided to end with the words that Voronezh, like Volgograd (Stalingrad), Moscow, Smolensk and a number of other cities, should have received the title of a hero city at one time, but this title is due to a number of circumstances passed Voronezh, something like an incident happened. Voronezh is a city of military glory, but, unfortunately, the citizens do not have the status of a hero city, the speaker said.

After a few seconds of delay due to the translation of her words into German, one of the German guests decided to ask a rather lengthy question, which, apparently, he initially kept in his arsenal, and which apparently did not dock with the plans of the organizers, clearly not associated with the transition to heated debate. But the German, who turned out to be not entirely German, but a German citizen with Hungarian roots, decided to “revive” the seminar and, as is now fashionable to say, to troll its participants and organizers. The young man, standing up and posing as Zoltan Riggert, asked why Elena (the speaker's name) believes that Voronezh deserves such a high rank as the title of the hero city, because in June 1942, the combined powerful group of German, Hungarian and Italian troops literally a few days later during the initial stage of Operation Blau, without any resistance, captured the right bank of the city, breaking through the gap at the junction of the Bryansk and South-Western Fronts? And why, - continued this very Zoltan from Germany, - in Russia in general there arose at one time the idea to give Voronezh the title of hero-city (and in 2008-m was given the title of the city of military glory), if the command did not initially take care of the defense of the city - once , did not evacuate civilians - two, and during attempts to recapture the city, parts of the Red Army inflicted more damage on the city than the fascist German armies - three?

The speaker, obviously choosing the words more tolerantly, wanted to answer, but Zoltan, having waited for the translation, continued: I think that it’s better not to talk about fame in the Voronezh battle at all, if only because Russian troops couldn’t take the whole grouping in January the enemy into the cauldron, as in Stalingrad, but at the same time cutting out, clearly crossing over human rights (direct quotation, author's note) 1943 of the Hungarian army - to a single soldier.

After the phrases “human rights” and “cutting out ... the Hungarian army”, it became clear that a young man with Hungarian roots is not a mere guest, it is a typical product of “advanced” Western democracy, who is not going to listen to the answers to his “questions” on the other hand, he is clearly going to act as a kind of Shukshin character from the notorious story “Cut Off!”, who was also “offended” at Russia for the fact that its fighters had once and forever calmed down his great-grandfather at Voronezh, as it turned out, who fought in that very Hungarian 2 armies (now for buried at the memorial cemetery in the village of Rudkino, which is several dozen kilometers south of Voronezh).

After his half-question-half-match, Zoltan sat down in a chair, drew a smartphone from his pocket, either starting to play, or just surfing the Internet, defiantly not perceiving what the speaker was saying. Like, I did my job, trolling took place, everything went according to plan, and you can go to berry fruit drinks with pies ...

I wondered if this Zoltan Riggert is a unique character, or in the Western society of such Zoltans, who are “not sure” of the glory of Russian front-line cities a dime a dozen ... Although we are German citizens, we have our own Zoltans there is enough ... And recently their number is becoming more extensive ... The editions of the 90 sample, in which the very role of the Soviet people and the command in the Victory was questioned, and the assistance of the Western allies seemed to take the lead, did their work.

Thoughts that Voronezh is not worthy of not only the hypothetical title of the city-hero, but also the title of the city of military glory, to be honest, it’s not for the first time. Well, in any way, you understand, certain circles of our fellow citizens and foreign “subjects” are not impressed by the fact that during 212 days the front line passed directly through the city itself. Not to impress them with the fact that in the city after his complete liberation only 8% of buildings remained intact, nor that at a certain stage of the defense of Voronezh, students of army courses, soldiers of the NKVD battalions and who weapon Thousands of locals who were able to resist the German-Hungarian-Italian armada and did not allow that, as they say, to occupy the city lightly. These people are not impressed either by the fact that for performing tasks during the Voronezh operation 40 people received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, nor the fact that Voronezh, like Stalingrad, did not submit to the enemy. Yes, in principle, no merit of Voronezh and Voronezh residents to the country and humanity is “impressive”, and therefore more than a strange discussion about the fact that Voronezh “is not worthy of glorious titles” continues to this day.


Memorial on Victory Square in Voronezh


The reasons for the “unworthiness” practically coincide with the fact that Zoltan from Germany, who had read the hyperliberal posts, said in his speech: the unfortified Voronezh, the retreat of the combat-ready parts of the Red Army, the remaining civilians in the city ... At the same time, the following conclusions are added: Voronezh was not needed, he was going to move his armies south (to Stalingrad) in this region, and here (on the banks of the Don) "only" inflict a crushing defeat on the Red Army in order to prevent the Wehrmacht when they move to the Volga and the Caucasus. In the style of: a bear doesn’t need bees, he needs honey ... Of course, he needs it, but only who can give it to him.

Well, indeed, Hitler did not demand from his generals that they necessarily take Voronezh and even leave them the right to choose: “to take or not to take”. The generals, inspired by the progress in quickly moving into the gap between the two fronts and thinking about the Don bridgehead to ensure success in the southern direction, decided not to miss the opportunity to take another major Soviet city (about 400 thousands of people lived in Voronezh at the beginning of the war). This fact itself suggests that Hitler and his army commanders once again did not assess the situation, but overestimated their capabilities and the fact that the combat-ready units of the Red Army were forced to retreat from the banks of the Don. A clear underestimation speaks of Hitler’s ill-matched thoughts about the fact that it is imperative to move towards the Volga, but you can do with small forces at the site of the confluence of the Voronezh river to the Don.

By 7 July 1942 had managed to evacuate several large strategic enterprises from Voronezh, but 100 did not plan to evacuate the city’s residents. When exactly the remaining hundreds of thousands of Voronezh residents in the city reproach the then leadership of the country, hinting that the city was abandoned by the army and the ruling elite, and therefore is not worthy of any titles, you want to ask the category of people practicing this particular paradigm: ? Did the Soviet Union have large cities whose population was completely evacuated? Moscow, for example, in the autumn and winter of 1941, was it empty? ... And perhaps, that at the initial stage of the battle for Voronezh (and by the way, there is no such official name in any official source) against the German fascist divisions on the approaches and in the city, for the most part, it was the townspeople who took up arms, not talking about their unprecedented feat, which glorified both themselves and the city itself.

From the diary of Franz Halder, Wehrmacht Army Chief of Staff, July 5 1942:

24-I tank the army and the Großdeutschland division risk being exterminated in the offensive on the fortified Voronezh.


So what happens: the chief of staff confuses something? .. After all, the guests from Germany and our internal "specialists" made us understand that Voronezh was not fortified and therefore had no resistance to the enemy. But Halder suddenly says that the occupation of the right bank of Voronezh for selected German units (the “Great Germany” division is an example of this) was almost a disaster. An easy, however, walk for the German troops, who laid tens of thousands of their soldiers only in the first days of the operation ... Only in one day of battle did Hitler's troops lose 13 of thousands of soldiers and more than 70 tanks.

"Easy operation", which the British historian and historian John F. Fuller in his writings calls the most fatal for the Germans. Fateful because the Voronezh Front created in July by Stalin allowed the German fascist troops on the banks of the Voronezh River to get bogged down and did not allow them to advance to the aid of Paulus 1942, which was left without support in Stalingrad, eventually defeated in the Volga boiler .

By the way, Voronezh during the Great Patriotic War became one of the very few front-line large Soviet cities, on which the teeth of the Third Reich army, as they say, broke off pretty badly, and which was never completely inherited by the Reich. The fact that the Germans in the right-bank part of the city occupied by the fascist troops in the right-bank part of the city could not create an administration with the involvement of the local population also speaks about the spirit of the Voronezh residents. Voronezh is one of the few cities where soldiers of the Reich and their allies had to perform police functions on their own, because representatives of the local population refused to put on white patches of policemen even after impressive information processing, as evidenced by numerous documents from GAVO. This state of affairs forced the Germans and their associates in the matter of sowing "democracy" and "getting rid of communist slavery" (Hungarian soldiers) to arrange a real massacre in the city. Surviving lampposts, trees, floors of dilapidated buildings and even monuments were turned into gallows in Voronezh. The photograph, which depicted a resident of Voronezh hung on the monument to Lenin, spread all over the world and served at the Nuremberg trials as one of the evidence points of the atrocities of the German fascist troops in the USSR.


The gallows into which the monument to Lenin in the center of Voronezh was turned


Is Voronezh worthy of a city of military glory? - This question itself sounds with obvious blasphemy. But is it worth it at all to give in to the provocations of those who claim that the contribution of Voronezh and Voronezh residents to the Great Victory is doubtful? - this is a significant question.

Here, in the course of the operation, over 340 thousands of enemy troops were destroyed. These are the 26 of the German divisions and the Romanian units, the two allied armies - the Hungarian 2 and the Italian 8. Voronezh is literally surrounded by a chain of mass graves in which soldiers and militia members who participated in battles with the enemy rest. Such graves only in the vicinity of Voronezh more 180. The bitterness in battles was such that even seasoned fighters called Voronezh a meat grinder, and the famous Chizhov bridgehead was the “valley of death”.


Memorial on the Chizhovsky bridgehead in Voronezh


The total losses of Soviet soldiers and civilians in Voronezh and Voronezh environs during the bloody battles for the city have not yet been able to be assessed with a sufficient degree of accuracy. By the most conservative estimates, the 212-day battle for Voronezh claimed the lives of half a million USSR citizens. This is the bloody wage, which ultimately allowed the defeat of the Nazi troops not only near Voronezh, but also on the Volga shores.


Memorial complex in the "Park of Patriots" in the Left Bank district of Voronezh


By the way, about human rights ... Soviet troops liberating Voronezh were faced with the very Hungarians (Magyars), whose notoriety was walking around the city. Residents of the occupied part of Voronezh told that it was the Magyars who decided more than others to curry favor with the Führer, burying civilians in the graves alive by the hundreds. The patients of the psycho-neurological dispensary, these “human rights-carers”, were pierced with bayonets, the medical staff of the clinics were killed with shovels, and posed against the background of mutilated corpses with smiles on their faces (nothing, by the way, reminds of today's realities?) led to the fact that among the prisoners of war who fell into the hands of Soviet soldiers, there were no Hungarians. Many participants in those events speak of a tacit agreement on “not taking any Magyars”. So, Zoltan from Germany would be worth seeing the photos that his valiant great-grandfather (and maybe great-grandfather himself) did in Voronezh, and after their attentive viewing about human rights to start a conversation.

Why wasn’t Voronezh given the title of Hero City? Here historians express different versions, among which there are both plausible and conspiratorial ones. We give several versions of different authors.

Version one: Voronezh has long been considered a semi-closed city with a developed aviation and space industry, and the status of a hero city implies an influx of tourists, including from abroad. To prevent the influx and possible manifestation of interest in the city’s industry, they did not give the title of the hero city of Voronezh.
Version two: officially, the cities began to be given the title of heroes in the era of friendship between the peoples of the socialist camp, and thousands of representatives of those countries that joined the socialist camp remained in the Voronezh land. And in order not to stir up the past, they say, they decided to refuse the requests of Voronezh citizens for the title of the city-hero.

This version looks somewhat strange, because quite a few representatives of states that have become socialist in the future lie in the Volgograd land, but no one doubted whether to give Stalingrad the title of hero or not ...
Version three, which, incidentally, was the cause of many misunderstandings about the role of Voronezh in the Great Patriotic War. According to this version, Voronezh did not receive the status of the hero city, as it was left by the army and came under the control of the enemy.

However, in order to associate the non-assignment of the status with the “control over the city by the enemy”, one must be immensely far from the history of the battle for Voronezh, especially since Voronezh is not the only city that the Red Army was initially forced to leave (in the case of Voronezh only part of the city), but this, however, did not prevent some other cities from obtaining the title of hero-cities, unlike Voronezh.

In general, it is not so important why the leaders of the country did not assign the heroic title to Voronezh at that time, however important it is for the current representatives of the younger generation to know about the role that Voronezh and Voronezh residents played during the Great Patriotic War and did not become a grateful "flock" for those inclined to alter history and review the outcome of the war.
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  1. Paul
    Paul 24 August 2013 08: 01
    29
    the organizers didn’t finish the meeting, they thought fluffy and kind Germans would come to them, but they had to prepare for provocations
    and so put in the position of making excuses

    and let the provocateurs forever vanish forever
    1. Col.
      Col. 24 August 2013 09: 19
      17
      Quote: Pavel
      the organizers did not finalize the meeting


      They were just confused, probably, from such a "run over". It was necessary to quietly call this "expert" aside and talk without witnesses using the "third degree of interrogation", which his former owners loved so much.
    2. Hariva
      Hariva 24 August 2013 09: 29
      15
      but how to calculate it - a potential troll? He doesn't write "I hate Russians" in the questionnaire?
      But it really was necessary to prepare. And to the question "why were all Hungarians massacred?" Poke a muzzle in a photo with a monument to Lenin and dozens of other similar ones. Here, they say, therefore, dear you are our offended.
    3. nokki
      nokki 24 August 2013 10: 57
      46
      My parents, as well as many relatives, both from the side of the mother and father, my mother-in-law and father-in-law (he later managed to fight and become the Knight of the Order of Glory) were in occupation near Voronezh.

      Since childhood, I have heard their stories about those terrible days. Hungarians and Italians didn't just commit atrocities - they committed heinous crimes! And when, for example, our soldiers, having liberated the village of Novaya Olshanka, saw a well filled with the corpses of children, how should they then act with these "poor" Magyars and "unfortunate" Italians?

      Even the Germans, according to eyewitness accounts, hated their "allies", considering them Scheiße.

      This is one thing.

      The second one. Reading the memoirs of the Wehrmacht generals, I repeatedly met their statements that if Voronezh had been surrendered, the armored Nazi army would have simply made an easy walk along the steppe part of the left bank of the Don up to Saratov. And many of them reproached Hitler for not focusing on Voronezh, but on Stalingrad. And, in my opinion, the Germans wouldn’t have succeeded either there or here! What happened!

      As for the unpreparedness of the organizers of the meeting, you are in vain! There are always such "goldsmiths" for which our fathers and grandfathers found the most powerful argument: a bullet in the forehead! They do not understand other arguments. I was convinced by my bitter life experience. Sorry for the confusing answer, but for me this is a very painful topic ...
      1. dmit-xnumx
        dmit-xnumx 24 August 2013 14: 58
        12
        I liked your words very much! Your father-in-law bow to the ground! Thank you for your sincerity! I fully agree with you: for the enemy - a bullet and no other arguments.
      2. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri 24 August 2013 23: 51
        13
        Italians are unlikely. They generally preferred to desert and surrender, because they did not understand at all what the devil brought them to the USSR. But the Magyars have repeatedly "noted" in acts of genocide. And not only in the USSR, but also in the Balkans. Horthy Hungary was the most loyal ally of the Reich, do not forget.
      3. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 25 August 2013 11: 24
        +5
        but at the same time, having cut out, clearly stepping over human rights (direct quote, - author's comment), the 2nd Hungarian army - to a single soldier.


        Are they rams? If - sheep, then do not go to war.
        What more? Sort them? Or follow the summary? Yeah, the Hungarians should be recorded in the "Red Book" = their UZHO is not enough left!
      4. voffchik7691
        voffchik7691 25 August 2013 14: 19
        +4
        I agree. I want to add - it's time to stop making excuses. We did not come to their country and we did not kill their civilians!
    4. Siberian German
      Siberian German 24 August 2013 17: 17
      19
      this is our education malfunctioning - this excuse was specially taught to ask these questions - enough politeness - we need to understand all this shushera raised her undercoats only because we are silent. My approximate answer to this ghoul is
      1. They asked because we didn’t attack but your vile ancestors
      2. they didn’t take the boiler as we learned to fight under your swamp; we made a good boiler
      3. cut out your army since we were in our own right - you were with us and not we - acted as they would think with a furious pack of dogs - EVERYTHING
      1. old man54
        old man54 26 August 2013 17: 36
        +1
        Quote: Siberian German
        1. They asked because we didn’t attack but your vile ancestors
        2. they didn’t take the boiler as we learned to fight under your swamp; we made a good boiler
        3. cut out your army since we were in our own right - you were with us and not we - acted as they would think with a furious pack of dogs - EVERYTHING

        Well, I would also add number 4:

        4. And judging by you, dear guest Zoltan Riggert, our great-grandfathers did not finish a little then, and near Voronezh, and after, in Hungary itself - Hitler's bedding, and not everyone was "cut out" from those who would have been cut out! And today you are the result and an example of this "flaw". It is a pity that not only your grandfather was then "calmed down" here!
  2. a52333
    a52333 24 August 2013 08: 10
    28
    Hungarians, in my opinion, until now, at the word "Voronezh", are covered with cold and sticky sweat. Well, on the other hand, what did they want? In Voronezh, the first bombers struck kindergartens and schools. The scale of the destruction was such that the question of building a city in a new place was considered.
    1. maxvet
      maxvet 24 August 2013 09: 08
      +7
      http://www.voronezhgid.ru/architecture/monument/pamyatnik-v-bivshem-sadu-pionero
      v.html
      In the area of ​​dignity. them . Gorky forest is still pitted with trenches
    2. Hariva
      Hariva 24 August 2013 09: 20
      14
      School gardens + city park. And this is a day off when hundreds of children gathered in the park. It is clear why it was not possible to appoint the burgomaster from among the local ones.
      1. maxvet
        maxvet 24 August 2013 11: 48
        +2
        and more
        http://wikella.ru/rubric/1284141/#
    3. bya965
      bya965 24 August 2013 11: 58
      10
      Quote: a52333
      Hungarians, in my opinion, until now, at the word "Voronezh", are covered with cold and sticky sweat.

      Near Voronezh, the largest grave of Hungarians abroad. I am still amazed at their harshness, because they should have known about many living related Finno-Ugric peoples in Russia. I do not think Russian Russian, its history and culture without these peoples. The names of the rivers alone are worth something.
      I think the Hungarians among their peoples, like Poles among the Slavs.
  3. GREAT RUSSIA
    GREAT RUSSIA 24 August 2013 08: 33
    +6
    I fully agree with you a52333 at the word Voronezh, they should have goose bumps on their skin. wink the bombing was indeed so strong that, as they say, the city was wiped off the face of the earth. sad
    1. Hemi cuda
      Hemi cuda 25 August 2013 19: 12
      +3
      In the city, apart from the walls, nothing was left of the buildings, those houses were restored where at least 2-3 walls remained. After the war, grandfather and grandmother and five children lived in a dugout, and grandfather after working at the F.E. Dzerzhinsky went to work on the restoration of houses for this they gave a 1-room apartment in which all this crowd lived. Father told me that the neighboring house was not restored for a long time in the yard, surrounded by 3 remaining walls, there was a huge bomb funnel, so to speak, the local children's pond frolic in the summer.
      1. hohryakov066
        hohryakov066 26 August 2013 09: 02
        +1
        My relatives were probably among the last evacuated from Voronezh. As the family of the red commander, they were squeezed into the last departing train. They traveled to Sverdlovsk TWO MONTHS. My grandmother with three children and an old grandfather saw how a bomb wiped their home with all its property from the face of the earth. Throughout their lives, they carried the horror of these bombings and told us about this to us, their children.
  4. 1536
    1536 24 August 2013 09: 03
    12
    It is a pity, it is a pity that the Great Patriotic War is not over yet. That fascism develops again and again in its cradle - in Europe. An unfinished enemy is doubly dangerous. When Russian troops left Germany and Eastern Europe in the late 1980s-1990s due to the betrayal of the leadership, it became clear that the fruits of the 1945 Victory over German (European) fascism were lost. But the European question was never resolved, so there is a danger that in the near future it will be necessary to liberate the "unfortunate" deceived peoples of Europe from the yoke of some next Fuehrer or Fuehrer. And the best defense against these shortcomings now is attack. We must not be afraid to tell them in their eyes that their ancestors killed, hanged and burned our Russian people, tortured our soldiers in captivity. Yes, personally, my relatives, yes, and I am presenting and will be bringing accusations for this to their unrepentant descendants, who are now born in Europe, because such crimes cannot be forgiven and forgotten. See the Criminal Code, there are spelled out articles under which life imprisonment or the death penalty is given. So, the inhabitants of Europe should remain guilty for life for the crimes of their ancestors during the Second World War on the territory of the occupied part of the Russian Federation.
    1. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 25 August 2013 11: 07
      +5
      I totally agree with you! But I allow myself some statements: all of Europe fought against the USSR, some participated directly in the hostilities, others like Czechs, Poles, Dutch, Danes and other Norwegians forged weapons for the Wehrmacht. So the fault in front of us throughout Europe is immeasurable. That's what you need to blow daily and hourly into all the media. It’s time to put in place once and for all scoundrels and traitors trying to whitewash the marauders and bandits who have committed atrocities on our land! And very much these shortcomings want to put the USSR on a par with fascist Europe and make them repent for the fact that our soldiers broke ridge aggressors and refused to become their slaves!
  5. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 24 August 2013 09: 05
    12
    For all ages, meanness has been meanness, and the sacrilege of this descendant of executioners and looters is nothing at all to spit in our holy people. I don’t know what the former rulers of the USSR thought, but I remember from childhood the stories of surviving veterans that during the whole war they did not see more terrible meat grinders. I always believed that Voronezh and its defense were the key link, along with Stalingrad, in creating a radical turning point in the Second World War. recreated cemeteries for these looters and killers, they are not worthy of it.
    1. fedorru
      fedorru 24 August 2013 21: 21
      +8
      It is generally necessary by law to prohibit the construction of any memorials, cemeteries to Nazi invaders in Russia.
    2. AK
      AK 25 August 2013 13: 00
      0
      no, it’s not a pity, let them remember, otherwise - it can be repeated anew
      you have to poke your face in your shit, with which - periodically, if life does not teach

      and at the expense of the provocateur - there is not enough organization of society, they would take it - and silently, without saying a word and not agreeing, as it is now fashionable - they would announce a bike to him, then he would understand how much a pound is worth
  6. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 24 August 2013 09: 09
    +8
    from the Don.
    It is necessary to invite the gay people, but to prepare for such meetings it is necessary not formally, but to be prepared for any provocations! And behave in a dignified manner, corresponding to the children and grandchildren of the Heroes who died, defending their homeland!
  7. 6216390
    6216390 24 August 2013 09: 41
    +8
    Why Voronezh was not given the title of a hero city?

    It is necessary to restore historical justice and now, after so many years, confer the title of Hero City on Voronezh.
    1. Julio Jurenito
      Julio Jurenito 10 July 2017 16: 27
      0
      Voronezh generally remains a "black hole" in the history of not only the Great Patriotic War, but also the Civil War. And if the indistinct chronology of the events of October 1919 can be attributed to confusion and the specifics of the internal conflict, then with regard to the events of 1942-43, I think the fact is that the commanders during the defense and liberation of the city by the 60th Army Chernyakhovsky and the commander of the Voronezh Front Vatutin did not live to victory.
  8. sokrat-71
    sokrat-71 24 August 2013 09: 56
    +5
    Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword. This must be assimilated to the current Euro-citizens, if they do not want their bones to rot in Russian soil.
  9. GREAT RUSSIA
    GREAT RUSSIA 24 August 2013 10: 01
    +8
    [quote = 1536] It is a pity, it is a pity that the Great Patriotic War is not over yet.
    It is over for veterans who destroyed these fascists then, it’s not for us, we’ll have to finish off the entire infection, so take heart comrades do not stay long soldier
  10. zol1
    zol1 24 August 2013 10: 03
    +8
    The fruit of modern European upbringing is this Zoltan, the last of the subhumans of which the Russian land took in the form of MANUSION!
  11. KBPC50
    KBPC50 24 August 2013 10: 09
    11
    They did the right thing to cut out these executioners, bastards, who chopped heads to civilians. In vain, this gayZoltan’s head was not otchikali on the spot.
  12. KBPC50
    KBPC50 24 August 2013 10: 11
    +2
    It is better to work for the Foreign Intelligence Service, and such scum descendants of the Nazis should not be allowed into the country at all. Enough of their Geyropa to them !!!
  13. mox
    mox 24 August 2013 10: 11
    13 th
    Assigning any rank to cities is stupid.
    Any battles and just battles in nameless villages, heights and forest edges took place everywhere we spit.
  14. Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 24 August 2013 10: 17
    +8
    What kind of historian is he after? The historian analyzes the situation impassively, relying on the then historical realities. And this is a paid propagandist by the type (so that his pigs ate) Rezun.
    1. dmit-xnumx
      dmit-xnumx 24 August 2013 15: 09
      +3
      No, sorry pigs! Let the worms enjoy this carrion and it would be nice to add publishers publishing this traitor’s libel and journalists taking interviews from this rubbish and the editors of our (?!) Television showing this scum.
    2. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 24 August 2013 23: 12
      +2
      he is a Western historian, he is called an ordinary forger, and he also had to be reminded that in the memo the German soldier was not recommended to go alone and visit secluded places, let's just say - they killed.
      1. Landwarrior
        Landwarrior 25 August 2013 09: 59
        +4
        no, comrade. This is just the propagandist. Why? Will explain:
        The historian comes from facts. And he gives them the explanation, which LESS THAN contradicts them.
        The propaganda falsifier proceeds FROM ITS PURPOSE. From what he needs to prove. And he does not back down one iota, completely denying all other interpretations, spitting on inconsistencies, lack and indirectness of evidence, not shying away from half-truths, exaggerations and lies. He comes even to a shaky, contradictory, one-sided conclusion, but then to the very one that was PAYED to him.
        (C)
  15. KBPC50
    KBPC50 24 August 2013 10: 20
    +4
    Author - BIG request. Give the Internet address of this bastard. Beg.
    1. Volodin
      24 August 2013 11: 08
      13
      Unfortunately, I have no such information. But even this is not insulting. It's a shame that we have had a lot of our "Zoltans" in recent years. It is enough to read the comments on numerous forums dedicated to the battle for Voronezh, in which some "experts" are trying to rewrite the history of the war.
      1. afire
        afire 24 August 2013 14: 37
        +4
        Now I read the third book of Popel Nikolai, who started the war in western Ukraine and liberated it, he talks a lot about the atrocities and UPA and the Hungarians and other fascists, not so deeply of course, but there are enough facts.
        Definitely sooner or later this conflict is inevitable, since echoes of fascism are heard from all sides of our Motherland, and there are also enough of them inside. Hold on to each other guys. We have few options.
        1. novobranets
          novobranets 24 August 2013 20: 48
          +5
          Quote: afire
          Hold on to each other guys. We have few options.

          + The only option is to unite. You can't win alone. The only pity is that the "expert historian" has left, with his muzzle on the fence. angry
        2. VARCHUN
          VARCHUN 23 October 2013 21: 06
          0
          I agree with the author, but tell me what the governments of Ukraine and Russia are doing to eliminate neo-fascists, Natsiks, skinheads and the like spawn. the same defeated Germany. Then they would have sung differently. Thanks to the grandfather for the Victory, their eternal memory.
      2. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 25 August 2013 11: 12
        +4
        Quote: Volodin
        a lot of their "Zoltans" have divorced.

        Do not worry so much. Black sheep have always been and are.
        These are little things. It is necessary to "beat" on a large scale. It is necessary to "fight" against such figures as the Sakharov, etc. And this - you can't throw a handkerchief over someone else's mouth. Just louder and more powerful should be the VOICE OF TRUTH! and all squeaks are simply not audible.
        And stop sitting on the defensive - STEP NECESSARY!
        Yes, more inventive. For example - now a throw to Syria is being prepared. And why not ours and the Chinese get ahead?
        Sorry guys, our area of ​​interest! What have you lost here? Don't poke your nose, otherwise our "toys" will end up in Cuba. ( something like that)
  16. dickest
    dickest 24 August 2013 10: 35
    +5
    Be indulgent in the speech of the young Hungarian. It is worthy of the winners!
    Young horseradish is unlikely to change his mind someday, because behind his speech is an insult to the defeat and the loss of a relative, whom he could consider (in another scenario) A REAL SOLDIER!
    1. dmit-xnumx
      dmit-xnumx 24 August 2013 15: 12
      +6
      there is only one indulgence for this "young fuck" - a bullet in the forehead: he is an enemy of our-my-Motherland.
      1. GREAT RUSSIA
        GREAT RUSSIA 24 August 2013 19: 34
        0
        Quote: dmit-52
        there is only one indulgence for this "young fuck" - a bullet in the forehead: he is an enemy of our-my-Motherland.

        this "young horseradish" should be quartered and not shot, and that's the only way am , do you think I'm right in my opinion?
      2. AK
        AK 25 August 2013 13: 17
        +1
        moderate anger please
        we still do not have a wartime regime in the country
        1. GREAT RUSSIA
          GREAT RUSSIA 25 August 2013 13: 24
          0
          if you are me then I will try hi
    2. novobranets
      novobranets 24 August 2013 20: 57
      +4
      Mass execution of civilians (Sandy Log)

      At the end of August 1942, one of the most massacres during the occupation of Voronezh took place here. The Nazis drove here and shot a total of 452 civilians wounded during the aerial bombardment of the city by enemy aircraft and artillery shelling and were being treated in a hospital for civilians located on the street. 20th anniversary of the October Revolution. Among them were 35 children.

      According to the investigation, the Nazis shot babies in the arms of their mothers.http: //newspaper.moe-online.ru/view/237670.html
      Condescendingly?
  17. Narkom
    Narkom 24 August 2013 10: 36
    35
    For some reason, I recalled the story of the search engines, the Germans arrived in one of the villages (raised their relatives), sat in the evening, drank, ate, remembered. The Germans were mumbling something in their own way, suddenly the grandfather (the resident in whose house they were sitting) gave them a phrase in German, after which the Germans jumped out of the house with a very decent speed. When my grandfather was asked what he told them, they heard: They sat and talked, supposedly if ours were here, then maybe our sisters are sitting at the table, well, I told them that I was the commandant of the district in their city and they might my sons.
    And the Hungarians should show the war ...
    1. maxvet
      maxvet 24 August 2013 10: 44
      +3
      Well, the harsh truth of war
    2. dmit-xnumx
      dmit-xnumx 24 August 2013 15: 14
      +7
      Class !! "plus" to your clever grandfather! - from the bottom of my heart!
    3. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 25 August 2013 08: 22
      +6
      The vile essence was repeatedly shown by the Magyar warriors. Even in the days of the Austro-Hungarian empire, the Hungarian warriors even hated their own (source: The Good Soldier Schweik) and what they did during the Second World War. How vile traitors they have shown themselves during the events of 1956. This scum has repeatedly re-shown the war, but it catches the cattle!
      1. Vladimir73
        Vladimir73 11 September 2013 00: 35
        0
        Incidentally, during the events in Hungary in 1956, the most active were the Hungarian "warriors" who returned from captivity to the USSR (as redeemed by labor) and those whom the Soviet authorities forgave (did not shoot) after the liberation of Hungary from the fascist regime.
  18. Straus_zloy
    Straus_zloy 24 August 2013 11: 28
    11
    Voronezh Hero City

    And the Hungarians were not even taken prisoner

    1. Observer
      Observer 25 August 2013 10: 17
      +5
      I am proud of my City of Voronezh !!!
      1. Hemi cuda
        Hemi cuda 25 August 2013 19: 17
        +3
        I am also proud of my native Voronezh!
    2. VARCHUN
      VARCHUN 23 October 2013 21: 08
      0
      “From the first days of July (1942 - ed.), When German motorized formations ... approached the important Soviet city of Voronezh, the name of this city for the front and homeland became the personification of especially fierce battles ... In these battles, not one German said goodbye to his life. Crosses of soldier’s graves are everywhere ... in the center of the ruined city, among burnt out facades and barricades, in public gardens, on the streets and on the banks of the Don. ”

      The difficult situation in which the Wehrmacht divisions were advancing on Voronezh was recognized by the head of the General Staff of the German Army Halder himself, who made the following entries in his diary:

      "5.VII.1942 ... The 24th Panzer Division and the" Great Germany "division will seriously deplete their forces, advancing on the well-prepared and fortified Voronezh. 14.VII.942 In the Voronezh region, with great difficulty, strong enemy attacks with the participation of tanks were repulsed. 16.VII.942 The battles near Voronezh are characterized by heavy losses. " So "Zoltan" teach history.
  19. Proud.
    Proud. 24 August 2013 11: 40
    +9
    but at the same time, having cut out, clearly stepping over human rights (direct quote, - author's comment), the 2nd Hungarian army - to a single soldier.
    Not everyone can be seen being cut out if this one .... sh appeared.
  20. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 24 August 2013 11: 47
    +8
    <<< but Zoltan, having waited for the translation, continued: I think that it is better not to talk about glory in the Voronezh battle at all, if only because the Russian troops could not take the entire enemy grouping into the cauldron in January 1943, as in Stalingrad, but at the same time cutting out, clearly stepping over human rights (direct quote, - author's note) the 2nd Hungarian army - to a single soldier. >>>
    A young gay man with well-brainwashed in terms of Western assessment of the course and results of the 2nd World War drew human rights by the ears to the battle for Voronezh. What human rights can we talk about for Hungarian soldiers if they invaded treacherously?
    (what Hungary might have claims to the USSR) on Russian soil and began to kill the old and small just because they were RUSSIAN, began to create such savagery on Russian soil, surpassing the cruelty of the Germans and other allies that really Russian soldiers saw everything it is in the captivity of the Hungarians (and only them) did not take! So the conqueror - grandfather of Zoltan got what he deserved and it was and will be with everyone who comes to us with a sword and let this politically advanced gay player Zoltan chop it on the nose!
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 24 August 2013 12: 38
      +6
      Quote: Goldmitro
      What human rights can we talk about for Hungarian soldiers if they invaded treacherously?

      The girl speaker, of course, was not ready for such an attack, although she could have guessed that not all guests shared her opinion.
      Could you just ask how the truth-loving Hungarians ended up in VORONEZH?
  21. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 24 August 2013 12: 08
    12
    Quote: Narkom
    For some reason, I recalled the story of the search engines, the Germans arrived in one of the villages (raised their relatives), sat in the evening, drank, ate, remembered. The Germans were mumbling something in their own way, suddenly the grandfather (the resident in whose house they were sitting) gave them a phrase in German, after which the Germans jumped out of the house with a very decent speed. When my grandfather was asked what he told them, they heard: They sat and talked, supposedly if ours were here, then maybe our sisters are sitting at the table, well, I told them that I was the commandant of the district in their city and they might my sons.
    And the Hungarians should show the war ...

    We are clearly relatives with the Germans .. They have been stomping around for 2-3 years .. but we had "conducted military exercises" with them until the 90s .. heh heh ..
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 24 August 2013 21: 00
      +6
      Quote: MIKHAN
      We are obviously relatives with the Germans .. They have been stomping around for 2-3 years .. but we had "conducted military exercises" with them until the 90s .. heh heh ..

      Initially, the Germans are Germanized Slavs, so relatives are loved.
  22. goldfinger
    goldfinger 24 August 2013 12: 18
    +8
    The Magyars are direct descendants of the Huns of the "scourge of God" Attila. They practically did not mix with anyone. And the mean character has long been. Remember how their ancestors treacherously killed Khan Konchak and his sons, who came to them, with their Polovtsy, as allies of the Hungarian crown, against the Mongol Tatars. After the death of Konchak, the Polovtsi left for Bulgaria, where their descendants still live. And how then the Magyars lacked their sabers! There were tens of thousands of Polovtsians! That's why King Bela died. And Magyaria was completely ruined.
  23. knn54
    knn54 24 August 2013 12: 47
    +6
    I have said, said and will say for a long time that Voronezh should be a Hero City. There is nothing to spare the feelings of the invaders.
    PS In the mid-60s, I had to talk with a colleague of my father, who in 1956 served in Budapest. He was just taken on the street and hung in the store on hooks next to the carcasses of pigs. He did not remember how he was filmed ...
    1. VARCHUN
      VARCHUN 23 October 2013 21: 12
      0
      And he did not tell "ZOLTAN" what the Germans did with the Italians, Romanians and maybe the Hungarians in 43. They disarmed and soaked them like dogs because they did not need such warriors. And it has not come from ours yet. I would have made a list of countries Slavophobes and this would suit them. They would know and remember.
  24. bubla5
    bubla5 24 August 2013 12: 53
    +3
    It means that not all Hungarians were cut out, if there is a slap hat asking such questions, but it was a pity it was necessary to zero
  25. NOBODY EXCEPT US
    NOBODY EXCEPT US 24 August 2013 13: 16
    +2
    They have their own truth, we have our own, for me the main thing is that our children and grandchildren know the truth about the war, which it is not slicked under the next allies or "friends" And about this Hungarian, for him, his grandfather is most likely a hero, hell with him, I always think, and who were we for the Afghans, who lost about a million inhabitants in that war? Most likely we were invaders, occupiers and so on, but whoever we were. The memory of that war and its Heroes will remain with us forever, with our generation for sure. And what are they talking about over the hill, I personally don't care, the main thing is that we ourselves know our history well and do not forget it ........
    1. individual
      individual 24 August 2013 15: 24
      +6
      If we do, all on the "drum", then our grandchildren will teach them history lessons, where it will be written that the USSR bombed Hiroshima and Nagassaki by dropping atomic bombs, and the British defeated fascism.
      Soros textbooks for Russia already corresponded.
      The ideological war continues beyond the minds of our children.
      1. VARCHUN
        VARCHUN 23 October 2013 21: 15
        0
        Everything depends on parenting, and not on corrupt ministers with Jewish roots.
    2. Kostya pedestrian
      Kostya pedestrian 25 August 2013 03: 47
      +2
      Well, you turned that one down. Show me the NATO Hungarian who built a school or hospital in Russia, if that is what they built in such a way the Beslan tragedy at school.

      Ours in Afghanistan just fought with those who artificially created Western intelligence - the Taliban - people who do not respect their fellow citizens, their God and women, and Afghanistan itself.

      So do not drive war on veterans, but save your horseradish for yourself. Sure horseradish - the best weapon!
  26. largus886
    largus886 24 August 2013 13: 27
    +7
    The severity of the battles for Voronezh is also indicated by the fact that General Lizyukov, the commander of 5 tons of the army, was killed in the tank counterattack and his remains were found only in 2008.
    1. VARCHUN
      VARCHUN 23 October 2013 21: 17
      0
      And what about only one general’s remains. Thousands of thousands of heroes are not buried with dignity.
  27. OPTR
    OPTR 24 August 2013 13: 47
    +5
    And this bastard who came to spoil the graves of Heroes and cry about how cruel the Russians were with regard to the Hungarian invaders was simply a paid and provocateur


    It’s somehow unclear to some people that specially trained people will come to such events. And these events, if the organizers themselves do not understand what they are for, and what can happen, are skillfully used by such people. It is strange to expect otherwise if everything is left to chance.
    But from this, benefit can be cured, if shown correctly.
    The schoolchildren were shown who these "unfortunates" were? We discussed later that even after many years the hatred has not gone anywhere, and these people are ready to repeat what happened, and are just waiting for the moment?
    Did it reach them? Friendship is friendship, and weapons must be kept in order.

    Unfortunately, this article does not say anything about this.
  28. morevma
    morevma 24 August 2013 15: 11
    +4
    Yes, Voronezh was not fortified ... I myself am a native Voronezh, I have lived all my life in a house 500 meters from the former front line. And helmets hang on the wall, like the trophy of my ancestors. I read about the defense of Voronezh, probably everything that was published. And managed to hear the memories. The city was not ready for defense. In addition to the NKVD and air defense units, there were no troops in the city. They came later. We sincerely hate Magyar. There is a reason. Nobody considered Italians to be enemies, they, according to memoirs, did not engage in robberies, and almost did not fight (except for the Alpine corps). To whom it is interesting write: [email protected]/ I will tell, I will give links.
    1. VARCHUN
      VARCHUN 23 October 2013 21: 18
      0
      “From the first days of July (1942 - ed.), When German motorized formations ... approached the important Soviet city of Voronezh, the name of this city for the front and homeland became the personification of especially fierce battles ... In these battles, not one German said goodbye to his life. Crosses of soldier’s graves are everywhere ... in the center of the ruined city, among burnt out facades and barricades, in public gardens, on the streets and on the banks of the Don. ”

      The difficult situation in which the Wehrmacht divisions were advancing on Voronezh was recognized by the head of the General Staff of the German Army Halder himself, who made the following entries in his diary:

      “5.VII.1942 ... The 24th Panzer Division and the Great Germany Division will seriously deplete their forces, attacking Voronezh, which is well prepared for defense and fortified. 14.VII.942, in the Voronezh region, with great difficulty, strong enemy attacks were repulsed with the participation of tanks. 16.VII.942. The fighting near Voronezh is characterized by heavy losses. "
  29. individual
    individual 24 August 2013 15: 16
    +6
    You can, if not forgive, understand the German Hungarian embittered by the death of his ancestor in Russia. But let's ask ourselves, who called him here?
    Worried about something else?
    On which side did the ancestors of our "self-made historians" fight,
    with foam at the mouth spilling poison of hatred for the Red Army and the results of the Great Victory?
    Maybe it was their ancestors who called the unsolicited warriors to our land?
  30. Big giraffe
    Big giraffe 24 August 2013 15: 54
    +4
    My grandmother, the Kingdom of Heaven, also remembered that the most fierce fascists were Hungarians.
    And our main task is to pass on to future generations the whole truth about the war. These are already our problems - we will do it by force or of their own free will, but so that the children know who and what they owe. And the memory of the heroism of the ancestors is, I think, a duty. So that in the future, having met, on his way, a zoltan - to tell this comrade in which place he can determine his smartphone.
  31. serge
    serge 24 August 2013 16: 35
    +8
    The soldiers were hoppy, the tear was rolling,
    A tear of unfulfilled hopes.
    And on his chest shone
    Medal for the city of Budapest.
  32. morevma
    morevma 24 August 2013 17: 35
    +2
    In essence, the Magyars are right. I am a native Voronezh, I live 500 meters from the battle line. I probably read everything that was published on this issue, and I found the recollections of eyewitnesses, including relatives. I must say that we hate the Magyars with fierce hatred, for there is a reason. Italians are remembered with humor, with warmth even, they were not engaged in robberies. Why Stalingrad on the Upper Don did not receive a Hero is a difficult question. And in the face of this "guest", alas, it was impossible to give, and to remind that here his relatives were doing, and what happened to them later, no one could. If you are interested, write to [email protected], I will tell you, I will give you links.
  33. RUS-36
    RUS-36 24 August 2013 17: 57
    +6
    ..... but at the same time, having cut out, clearly stepping over human rights (direct quote, - author's comment), the 2nd Hungarian army - to a single soldier ... It’s nice to read, the whole rabble of the Magyars to the other world for their atrocities .. .
    1. Kostya pedestrian
      Kostya pedestrian 27 August 2013 10: 39
      +1
      A good example of how bad "human rights" are on the watch for peaceful sleep of soldiers. NATO, too, overstepped these same rights, wiping out Yugoslavia from the face of the earth, as they changed the military alliance with the USSR for "mythical human rights." The same Libya - Gaddafi, relied on the British word for "protecting civil rights and his savings", instead of an alliance with Moscow.

      What are these "human rights", even if someone has a crust, and in general, who takes exams on the basis of these same rights.

  34. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 24 August 2013 18: 33
    +2
    In the 21 century, in Germany itself and its former allied countries, a huge propaganda hype was launched, the purpose of which was to minimize the atrocities of the Nazi troops and at the same time to slander and belittle the role of the Red Army in defeating the Nazi forces on the Soviet-German front. The media is spreading the delirium of Western "analysts" that the Germans, Italians, Romanians (etc.) were defeated by "General Moroz". That the Red Army did not spare its soldiers, was not humane to the enemy soldiers, etc. The purpose of these rantings is the same: to drive thought into the minds of the young generation of the Western world. that fascism was defeated by the USA and European resistance, and the USSR helped them in this. The success of this lie is obvious. When polling young Americans who fought against the United States in World War II, they answered: Germany and Russia. Therefore, the study of the history of Russia in general and the Great Patriotic War in particular is the most important matter.
    1. DPN
      DPN 24 August 2013 22: 34
      +1
      What kind of story can we talk about if the Russian media themselves scum everything SOVIET, if the cities awarded Soviet orders, we can say they throw them into the landfill in Perm, for example.
  35. mark7
    mark7 24 August 2013 19: 00
    +4
    Quote: morevma
    , and to remind that here his relatives worked,

    How did this girl undertake to speak out ignorant of such things about Hungarians and other henchmen, they teach about such things at school, maybe she was confused? The article is very good.
    1. Hauptam
      Hauptam 24 August 2013 22: 48
      +3
      Yes, they’re taught at school now. Textbooks Soros writes. For the entire war, 4 paragraphs - Voronezh is somewhere, but I remember, I remember a kitten from Lizyukova Street. And no one knows who such a hero Lizyukov is. The meeting was organized as a provocation, another format is not possible. We were defeated without a war (hot), we are living in occupation, and we ourselves do not want to understand this.
  36. pahom54
    pahom54 24 August 2013 20: 24
    +5
    Quote: Hariva
    but how to calculate it - a potential troll? He doesn't write "I hate Russians" in the questionnaire?

    It’s time to get it clear - Russia didn’t have any friends, and it never will. For this reason, there is no need to say that the organizers of the meeting "were not prepared" ... We did not invite either Germans, Magyars or Italians to our house in 1941 with weapons. The fact that the Magyars committed atrocities even worse than the Germans has also long been known. And are these supposedly friendly meetings with these supposedly brothers-in-arms necessary? Let the neutral-friendly relations develop at the presidential and governmental levels, although, I hope, they will not boorishly accuse Russia of "cutting out" poor Hungarians (although they are trying). Actually, it’s not okay to breed pseudo-friendships with those whose ancestors trampled on Russian lands and destroyed the Russian (Soviet) people. But in general, this Zoltan, his toy, which he began to play after his question-statement, had to be shoved into the well ... and the delegation should be sent to us from the territory, which they considered unworthy of the title of a hero-city, etc. Then the big guys would have thought - fraternize with these geeks or not. And it is not for them to decide which Russian city deserves which title or not. Nah all these "friends"!
  37. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 24 August 2013 20: 29
    +3
    Well, now we are reaping the Gorbato-Yeltsin-Putin accords. Some kind of European rascal, a husk, now hailo reveals for his geeks, grandfathers-killers. Let these scum pray to God that such countries as Hungary and the like generally remained on the world map for their crimes and atrocities.
    1. stroporez
      stroporez 25 August 2013 13: 33
      0
      like Gogol in "Taras Bulba" ----------- "........ and he has peace with the Sultan ......."
  38. GREAT RUSSIA
    GREAT RUSSIA 24 August 2013 21: 27
    +4
    Quote: pahom54
    It’s time to make it clear that Russia had no friends, no, and never will be.

    It is our GREAT MOTHERLAND OF RUSSIA that can have good relations with different countries, or unions, for example, Syria, but the true ally of RUSSIA, as Emperor Alexander 3 said, is the army and navy, and it is for us and our RUSSIA to rely on it soldier
  39. Mercenary
    Mercenary 24 August 2013 22: 31
    +3
    Why do we not respect ourselves to such an extent? Why do we constantly make excuses for these scum? why at such conferences no one will ask the geyropovtsev - And who called you here? we the grandchildren of the victors are obliged to suppress all Western abomination from rewriting history.
  40. GREAT RUSSIA
    GREAT RUSSIA 24 August 2013 23: 13
    +3
    Quote: Hauptam
    Yes, they’re taught at school now. Textbooks Soros writes. For the entire war, 4 paragraphs - Voronezh is somewhere, but I remember, I remember a kitten from Lizyukova Street. And no one knows who such a hero Lizyukov is. The meeting was organized as a provocation, another format is not possible. We were defeated without a war (hot), we are living in occupation, and we ourselves do not want to understand this.

    As for history books, you are right in just 4-6 paragraphs, instead of publishing a separate part of a textbook on this topic, try reading a few paragraphs on the USSR and want to break this book, instead of praising Stalin and Lenin for their services, they throw them at they are all slanderous about the fact that they killed white people, that they shot good people, that white people were good and that Lenin and Stalin were bad, that Trotsky and Sakharov were martyrs of the Soviet regime. I myself am ashamed to learn from these textbooks just like these textbooks in a bag, glory to Allah mother decided not to buy a new textbook this year. But the most shameful is that these textbooks are written by doctors of historical sciences, and yes, such people are simply simply imprisoned for life. Shame and disgrace as soon as the earth tolerates such people?
    Quote: Mercenary
    Why do we not respect ourselves to such an extent? Why do we constantly make excuses for these scum? why at such conferences no one will ask the geyropovtsev - And who called you here? we are the grandchildren of the winners are obliged to suppress all Western abomination from rewriting history

    for each attempt to rewrite history for the sake of the West it is necessary to plant not to be fined, namely to plant, for too long our country has endured them. It is time to get rid of these parasites once and for all COMRADE RUSSIANS! soldier
    1. VARCHUN
      VARCHUN 23 October 2013 21: 21
      0
      And when will your patriotic slogan reach them? They are all corrupt. They will praise veterans on May 9, and delay their retirement on May 10. This is the reality of our countries.
  41. Eugene
    Eugene 25 August 2013 03: 59
    +2
    You can’t drive me to Voronezh anymore. The caricature of kukryniksy seems to be. And yet. Take your dead. We didn’t call you anywhere! Drive your equipment here, dig. and take away !! Good riddance !!
  42. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 25 August 2013 06: 43
    +3
    Ehhhh it was necessary to ask how quickly the Red Army took the Hungarian cities, how the command of the 1st Hungarian army behaved in the 44th (an excellent moment to touch) .... In general, you should be as cruel with the trolls and forget the word tolerance and other things
  43. atomic
    atomic 25 August 2013 07: 41
    +2
    The Germans were cruel, but they were always good wars, and the Hungarians, Romanians, Italians were never wars, but they were noble marauders.
  44. 123tank
    123tank 25 August 2013 07: 42
    0
    This is to be expected at such meetings. The assignment of one or another rank is our business. The victory in the Great Patriotic War is not the merit of this or that city, but is the victory of the whole nation. We love all kinds of titles in Russia.
  45. Pit Bull59
    Pit Bull59 25 August 2013 07: 58
    +5
    Spit on this Zoltan from the top shelf of the compartment car! The main thing is that we remember the feat of our grandfathers! Eternal glory !!!
  46. woland05
    woland05 25 August 2013 09: 21
    +2
    The author, thanks, for the article, of course, but there is so much emotion. Or it turns out that the goals of this cyanogen are achieved. The speaker had to ignore him, not answer questions, and in the evening to Zoltan to remind where he has liver and kidneys ...
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 25 August 2013 18: 10
      +1
      Quote: woland05
      and Zoltan in the evening to remind where he has liver and kidneys ...

      And where he used to have teeth. angry
  47. Irokez
    Irokez 25 August 2013 15: 21
    +6
    Near Voronezh, black diggers still walk through forests and there is still so much metal and unburied fighters, both their own and those of strangers, but they are considered missing.
    Local residents volunteered to avenge precisely the Hungarians for their atrocities. And the newly rebuilt Voronezh has many street names associated with the war.
    Although there are still many names of true tyrants and executioners of the Russian people since the revolution, such as Sverdlov, Uritsky, Zemlyachka and others.
    Only right now, archives from revolutionary times open and a lot of interesting and unusual things open up and the heroes turn into executioners, and it turns out that much was not at all the same as in the days of the USSR, and right now, in addition, Sores distorts and replaces the history of our Russian State. It is the Powers, not the states. Remember at least the words from the movie "White Sun of the Desert" the customs officer says "It's a shame for the State." Were it not for the revolution, the Russian State would really be without tolerances in life and with the right values, ideas, honor and conscience.
    A lot of interesting things here http://rutor.org/torrent/223660/istorija-rossii-xx-veka-01-86-2007-2011-dvdrip
    In many respects he overestimated something and I think it is correct.
    Hungarians, they have always been an obscene-scumbag people since Austria-Hungary and NATO helped with the bombing of Yugoslavia. And political correctness and tolerance in the creation of the Union republics deprived Voronezh of many prominence in the war and honor.
    http://s016.radikal.ru/i336/1308/ae/83829fc6ee71.jpg
    And the memory of the war
    http://s50.radikal.ru/i127/1308/c3/c1c2f1733421.jpg
  48. GREAT RUSSIA
    GREAT RUSSIA 25 August 2013 15: 39
    0
    You’re right that the Hungarians are still scum, but we won’t put the whole nation on the same footing, there are probably at least a few good people there, but it still doesn’t justify them, they bombed Yugoslavia, committed atrocities during the Great Patriotic War, and we told them that never forgiven. am
    Quote: Irokez
    Hungarians, they have always been an obscene-scumbag people since Austria-Hungary and NATO

    Namely, one day they themselves will have to understand what it feels like when your country is bombed and when atrocities are committed in your homeland. Everything has its time. Veterans bow deeply to them, eternal glory and long happy years of life, and Voronezh the title of the city of Military Glory soldier .
  49. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 25 August 2013 16: 16
    0
    It is necessary to advance, not justify. Who will organize such meetings with foreigners, especially on the topic of war, a trip to the WWII museum should be planned initially. soldier
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 25 August 2013 17: 04
      0
      Quote: Sergei Medvedev
      It is necessary to advance, not justify. Who will organize such meetings with foreigners, especially on the topic of war, a trip to the WWII museum should be planned initially.

      I agree, and then take it to some modern military training ground to show what we are capable of, then we would think 100 times before "being clever" bully
  50. KOH
    KOH 25 August 2013 18: 03
    0
    Quote: Be proud.
    but at the same time, having cut out, clearly stepping over human rights (direct quote, - author's comment), the 2nd Hungarian army - to a single soldier.
    Not everyone can be seen being cut out if this one .... sh appeared.


    It was necessary to make it clear to him that when repeating the script it would be the same and not otherwise ... am
    But in general, why didn’t anyone find anyone who would throw him out of there? ...