Military Review

Awesome calm in Russia. Who does not like the anti-corruption campaign and the nationalization of elites

80
Recently I came across a curious note with the promising title “Putin’s Self-Destruction” (9 on June 2013), devoted to such phenomena in the life of our country as the anti-corruption campaign and the nationalization of elites. Its source text can be found here: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139442/ivan-krastev-and-vladislav-inozemtsev/putins-self-destruction.


The phrase with which the note begins, makes you think: "This spring was almost frighteningly calm in Russia". This characteristic of the political situation in the country does not come across too often. “Crisis” can be political crises, unrest and other negative phenomena that destabilize political life. But "awesome calm"?

The “frightening calm” here, apparently, means the absence of unrest of such a level as Manezhnaya Square-2010 and Bolotnaya Square-2012 fitterhttp://www.newsru.com). However, this relative calm is served as a “lull before the storm”. What is the upcoming "storm", what are its causes and prerequisites?

Awesome calm in Russia. Who does not like the anti-corruption campaign and the nationalization of elites


Manezhnaya Square-2010 and Bolotnaya Square-2012 - this year nothing similar in scale has been observed so far. However, this relative calm is referred to by the authors as “intimidating.”

According to the authors of the note, the reasons for the imminent destabilization of the state lie in the anti-corruption campaign: "... Putin’s recent anti-corruption campaign unwittingly set the stage for the collapse of his entire system" (...) "... This campaign may be a double-edged sword that ultimately discredits the regime and sweeps Putin’s assistants ...". It turns out that the fight against corruption, as one of the elements undermining the foundations of our statehood, can lead to destabilization of the state itself and, as a result, to the removal of Putin’s team from power.

To begin with, we briefly describe the main measures included in the anti-corruption campaign 2012-2013:

- Adoption of the aforementioned draft law “On prohibiting certain categories of persons from opening and holding accounts (deposits), storing cash and valuables in foreign banks located outside the territory of the Russian Federation, owning and (or) using foreign financial instruments”http://www.rg.ru.

- Criminal cases related to Oboronservis and Rosagroleasing (ex-Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov and ex-Minister of Agriculture Elena Skrynnik are involved in them)http://www.ng.ru.

- Removal of deputies suspected of violating anti-corruption ethics from the State Dumahttp://www.forbes.ru.



Get acquainted: before you "innocent victims" Stalinist repression anti-corruption campaign.

Note that before the ban on the ownership of real estate by officials abroad has not yet reached (although such a bill was also put forward this year). The fate of Anatoly Serdyukov and Elena Skrynnik is also unclear (both are witnesses, not accused, which, in fact, excludes the possibility of serious punishment for them). We will refrain from reasoning about the role that the unrest of the end of 2010 - the first half of 2012 - played in the anti-corruption campaign. In any case, this campaign fully meets the interests of Russia.

First of all, the anti-corruption campaign is one of the most important elements of the “nationalization of elites” policy, which the Kremlin has decided to conduct. Forming an elite that is guided by the long-term interests of their country, and not by short-term financial gain is one of the primary tasks, the solution of which will allow not only to pursue a policy that meets the interests of Russia, but also to ensure its continuity. Without a nationally-oriented elite, all achievements in economics, science, and foreign policy risk going to pieces. The sad experience of the Soviet Union, which betrayed its top leadership, confirms this.

In turn, the policy of nationalization of elites (and the anti-corruption campaign included in it) is fraught with the following troubles for our geopolitical rivals in the West:

- For a long time, corruption in Russia has been an excellent reason for denigrating the image of our country in the eyes of the international community. According to the non-governmental organization Transparency International, in the period 2000-2013. on the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), Russia ranked in the 82-133 range of places (the number of countries for which the index was calculated increased, respectively, from 90 to 174http://archive.transparency.org), just next to the countries of the Third World. Our task now is not to find out how objective this index is. The bottom line is that the problem of corruption is the object of numerous speculations on the part of our geopolitical "friends" and its "fifth column". Of course, they really do not want to lose such an opportunity to manipulate public opinion. However, in this case, public opinion and the ability to manipulate it play a secondary role.

- The ban to have accounts on foreign banks partially removes the Russian elite from the control of the West. Partly, because at the moment officials retain ownership of real estate abroad (these are only material factors, not to mention ideological). It is important to understand that an account at a Swiss bank or a villa on the Cote d'Azur can at any moment turn into a hook on which, if necessary, their owner will be planted. It is naive to believe that our Western partners will not use the opportunity to blackmail a Russian official by freezing an account or confiscating real estate at the first opportunity. Everyone remembers the recent "expropriation" of Cyprus bank accounts. We can also recall the following example: the arrest of the head of affairs of the President of the Russian Federation Pavel Borodin in 2001 on bribery charges. As long as Russian officials keep their money in Swiss banks, buy villas on the Cote d'Azur, send their children to study at Oxford and look to the West - Russia will not be able to pursue an independent policy and fully defend their interests.

While the process of nationalization of elites is in the initial stage. There are many difficulties in the way of its implementation. And, of course, not everyone likes it. A large part of the modern Russian elite will try to circumvent the anti-corruption laws, and continue to look towards the West. The performance of one of the richest Russian civil servants, First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov, at the Russia-2013 forum, held in Moscow on 16-19 on April 2013, is indicative in this regard. In particular, it stated the following:

"I think it came to that not quite reasonable norms of behavior concerning some kind of foreign property etc. "http://www.newsru.com. It is symptomatic that the very first steps on this path already seem to some officials "not quite reasonable." Therefore, as we move towards the nationalization of elites, there is a certain likelihood of a split of the modern Russian elite into “nationally oriented” and “liberal”, between which the struggle for power will begin.



Russia-2013 Forum: Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov is concerned about the anti-corruption campaign and the nationalization of elites. But so far only the first steps on this path have been made.


This scenario is implied in the note. It is not at all the “elemental wrath of the masses” that, according to the authors, should sweep away Putin’s regime. It is a question of a “palace coup”, which the “liberal” part of the Russian elite is to carry out as a result of the “power” struggle for power. The ideal option for our Western "friends" is the victory of the pro-Western part of the Russian elite. However, the option of open confrontation, covering not only the elite, but also other segments of the population, is also not bad. Even if the wrong side wins. Internal chaos has never benefited any country, not to mention the fact that this chaos can be used.

Therefore, there is no doubt that as the process of nationalization of the elites proceeds, such “warnings” about the danger of the chosen course will become widespread. One should expect the appearance of “exposing” articles on the ineffectiveness of the anti-corruption policy of the state, pessimistic forecasts, and the same ratings made and compiled by “independent” NGOs. This is only the smallest and most harmless part of the arsenal, which can be applied by our geopolitical opponents.

However, "took the tug, do not say that he is not a lot." It remains to hope that the course towards the nationalization of elites has been taken "seriously and for a long time" and will continue, despite the obstacles. For, as mentioned above, the formation of a nationally oriented elite is one of the main conditions for the independence of Russia's policy, without which it is impossible to do.

17 August 2013.
Author:
80 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Refund_SSSR
    Refund_SSSR 19 August 2013 07: 11
    25
    When a corrupt person is replaced by a corrupt one through corrupt schemes of double standards - this is not called the fight against corruption ... This is called CORRUPTION.

    There is no war on corruption in Russia. In Russia, for many decades now, a war of corrupt officials has been going on.

    Therefore, there is no doubt that as the process of nationalization of the elites proceeds, such “warnings” about the danger of the chosen course will become widespread. One should expect the appearance of “exposing” articles on the ineffectiveness of the anti-corruption policy of the state, pessimistic forecasts, and the same ratings made and compiled by “independent” NGOs. This is only the smallest and most harmless part of the arsenal, which can be applied by our geopolitical opponents.

    Yes, yes, yes, how familiar ... "I am the most honest and kindest in the world Вор an official, and whoever does not think so is a liar and a provocateur, "but he is right who shouts louder than anyone that he is fighting corruption, and" the tsar father has nothing to do with him ... his boyars are deceiving ... "
    Look for fools who will believe it ...
    About the same "usefulness of the program" was shouted both during privatization and during the revelry of the MMM ... And everyone who wrote malicious articles was also traitors and envious.
    Let's remember the priority programs and national projects ... The "smart publicists" wrote the same thing.
    1. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 19 August 2013 07: 59
      11
      Quote: We refund_SSSR
      "I am the most honest and kindest thief official in the world, and whoever does not think so is a liar and a provocateur", but the one who shouts loudest of all that he is fighting corruption is right

      I don’t like the idea of ​​organizing a CAMPAIGN TO COMBAT CORRUPTION.
      WHY? The answer is simple - campaigns, as a rule, go on (analyze the events in the country and you will agree with me!) 2 weeks ... 2 months ... 2 years! No more! And then they quietly freeze. Their duration is determined by the degree of saturation of popular discontent (or, on the contrary, satisfaction) ... As soon as the peak is reached ... the campaign either breaks off and is replaced by another ... or quietly "dies"!
      Campaign methods can’t fight corruption! THIS CRIME AGAINST SOCIETY! For starting a company in advance the goal is only to distract and dull attention (mainly this with extreme discontent), but not to eradicate this source of discontent.
      If the infection is not eradicated, then they change the basis of its appearance ... but do not destroy the stems ... I continue to live and multiply by the roots. So with us ... it is not necessary to carry out a campaign ... but to change certain economic conditions for its generation ... and not to interrogate the guilty for years ... but to quickly determine the amount of work for them in Kolyma! Then there will be a struggle, not a campaign!
      1. slas
        slas 19 August 2013 08: 56
        +8
        Quote: KazaK Bo
        I don’t like the idea of ​​organizing a CAMPAIGN TO COMBAT CORRUPTION.
        WHY? The answer is simple - campaigns, as a rule, continue (analyze the events in the country and you will agree with me!) 2 weeks ... 2 months ... 2 years! No more! And then quietly freeze

        I completely agree with you At how at work they announce like "From this date, the month of fighting against -----------" begins. "The first day is in the soap. The second is the first critics, and on the third, more than half, they themselves break everything and everyone
    2. 225chay
      225chay 19 August 2013 08: 36
      14
      Quote: We refund_SSSR
      There is no war on corruption in Russia. In Russia, for many decades now, a war of corrupt officials has been going on.

      Here I look at these personalities of Shuvalov, Kozak and some others. What are they not our faces with other features ... alien, foreign or something
      1. Botanologist
        Botanologist 19 August 2013 09: 39
        13
        I do not want to say anything at the very top, but at the regional level, the nuts are slowly twisted. In any case, infa constantly goes on about what they put in the governors, their deputies, about mayors and smaller bipods, I don’t even say. I personally know many managers - really, that revelry that was 5 years ago is already a long thing in the past.
        The question is that the very top has not yet been touched very much - so far only in the best case they have been removed from office. I really want to see a stool or a red one in a striped shirt with a number. I hope to wait.
        1. Ruslan_F38
          Ruslan_F38 19 August 2013 09: 55
          13
          "Forum" Russia-2013 ": Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov expresses concern about the anti-corruption campaign and the nationalization of the elites. - whose cow would moan)) - one of the richest in the government, my mother did not cry.

          I found it on the internet: There is a Severin company owned by Olga Shuvalova. This is an indisputable fact.
          It is from Severin that the Shuvalov family receives its multimillion-dollar income. With this money, a house was bought in Austria for 11 million euros, an apartment in London, etc.
          Severin owns Redcliffe.
          This same Redcliffe gained control of shares at an office called Sevenki through the transfer of shares.
          SUDDENLY, money began to come to Sevenki.
          In 2004, the company of Roman Abramovich / Eugene Shvidler “Unicast Technology” transferred $ 50 million to Sevenki.
          For what? For what beautiful eyes did Abramovich / Shvidler transfer Shuvalov’s wife $ 50 million?
          Just.
          SUDDENLY. The Gelager company, the official key company of the holding of the multimillionaire Usmanov, which can take a loan from any bank without any problems, for some reason takes these Shuvalov $ 50 million from him
          What is it for Usmanov? Unclear.
          What is it for Shuvalov? It is clear: in July 2007 the “loan” was returned with excellent interest.
          In "Sevenki" returned as much as $ 118 million dollars.
          Well, in February 2008, Sevenky transferred the first $ 80 million to its owner, Radcliffe, as a dividend.
          Voila. That's the whole trick.

          Well, the richest .....?
          1. Stas
            Stas 19 August 2013 10: 20
            +9
            ... "Director of the Federal Drug Control Service (FSKN) Viktor Ivanov in 2012 earned 23 times more than a year earlier. And his wife's income increased more than 50 times, according to a declaration published on the agency's website. ..

            And how is this note on "Vzglyad" worse? Also from the same opera.
            1. alone
              alone 19 August 2013 19: 28
              +3
              belay and what are they so welded with? Really ....
    3. kris
      kris 19 August 2013 10: 23
      +9
      Moscow. August 19. INTERFAX.RU - The Main Military Investigation Department (GVSU) of the TFR refused to initiate a criminal case, the defendants of which could be ex-Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, as well as the former director of the education department of the military department Yekaterina Priezzheva, Kommersant reported on Monday.

      "The corresponding decision on the refusal to initiate a criminal case has already been received by the Main Military Prosecutor's Office (IF)," the newspaper notes. According to the newspaper, the supervisory authority intends to appeal against it.

      Kommersant recalls that since April this year, three departments have been involved in checking the activities of Defense Ministry officials who participated in the purchase of furniture for the Krasnodar Presidential Cadet School (KPKU) - the Department of Military Counterintelligence of the FSB, GUEBiPK of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, as well as the GVP.


      See the original material at http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=324141
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. valokordin
      valokordin 19 August 2013 22: 19
      +4
      Sergey, your point of view is correct, and the president and prime minister are interested in corruption, since they use it as a tool
  2. koksalek
    koksalek 19 August 2013 07: 15
    12
    Until the main thieves like those sitting with bracelets in mansions and stools are executed, no one will ever believe in this fake fight against corruption. I see only corrupt people who are fighting with the people and blame all the blame on ordinary people
    1. paul1969
      paul1969 19 August 2013 07: 48
      +4
      and my opinion coincides with yours, definitely !!!
    2. APASUS
      APASUS 19 August 2013 21: 39
      +3
      Quote: koksalek
      I see only corrupt people who are fighting with the people and blame all the blame on ordinary people

      Let me disagree with the article.
      In our city, the chief architect was shot after it turned out that he and Vasilyeva had sold the land of the Moscow region for a village with cottages. Where each "house" was worth millions of dollars.
      And then the architect had a house in Spain, a house in Finland, 3 apartments, 1 house and an unknown number of plots.
      The authorities had 20 years in order to understand that he was a thief, but no ...........
  3. My address
    My address 19 August 2013 07: 50
    +7
    I give a favorite example.

    You are the head of a large enterprise. You have many divisions. In the divisions they steal. So what? You will deal with minor thieves, not touching the chiefs? In the extreme case, removing the head of the unit (if he was caught by the hand) from the post? Of course not, if you are the main thing, but not personal loyalty. You will keep the leaders in the heads of the company, not just you personally.

    And the fight against thieves like Gudkov, not higher, is, at best, at the level of the director performing the work of a careless cleaner of industrial premises.
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 19 August 2013 22: 23
      +2
      Quote: My address
      And the fight against thieves like Gudkov, not higher, is, at best, at the level of the director performing the work of a careless cleaner of industrial premises.

      What do you mean, Gudkov is a career FSB officer, and there everyone has a cold mind, warm heart and "clean hands."
  4. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 19 August 2013 07: 50
    17
    What are anti-corruption cases? what is the author talking about? that Serdyukov, Vasilyev and others have already been shot? or can they sit for life? The nationalization of the elites is generally from the realm of fantasy. Just as there was an undercover struggle of groups for power, it remained. Only some gifted people see it as a fight against corruption. Maybe someone will say why they give us all this crap when prices are no longer rising by percent, but by tens of percent. The state does not have enough money to fight corruption.
  5. fzr1000
    fzr1000 19 August 2013 09: 00
    +8
    TFR refused to institute criminal proceedings against Serdyukov
    19.08.2013
    Serdyukov is not guilty. The main military department of the TFR refused to open a criminal case against the ex-defense minister, in which his protégé, the former director of the education department of the military department, Yekaterina Priezzheva, was also involved. Kommersant writes about this today. The reason for the investigation was the last year's auction for the supply of furniture to the Krasnodar Presidential Cadet School. The UK believes that Priezzheva instructed her subordinates to develop documentation in such a way that only the company of her friend, Isku Interior M, would meet the customer's requirements. As a result, other applicants were not allowed to participate in the auction. FAS recognized the actions of the Ministry of Defense as illegal, and the Deacon company was declared the winner of the auction. Meanwhile, the state contract with her was never signed, since "Isku Interior M" had already supplied furniture, and the military department overpaid almost 40 million rubles for it. According to Kommersant, the investigators found no corpus delicti in all these actions of the Defense Ministry officials.

    And this is only one episode.
  6. And raid
    And raid 19 August 2013 09: 02
    14
    Once whores fought with prostitutes !!! Ha ha ha !!! Our government considers the population of the country to be completely stupid.
  7. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 19 August 2013 09: 15
    +5
    This is how you find out the news - it turns out that Russia is fighting corruption and even someone is against it ...
  8. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 19 August 2013 09: 16
    +3
    , the fight against corruption, as one of the elements that undermine the foundations of our statehood, can lead to destabilization of the state itself

    I do not understand what So do you have to fight corruption or not? Then a heart-rending screech is heard that Russia is the most corrupt and no one is doing anything. Then, as soon as they seem to start to do something, a similar screech begins that it is harmful for the state and its foundations. If you do not consider the case of Serdyukov with his brothel and the red nanoprivatization at the moment (it seems that everything is not so simple as it seems) , then the process goes like be. Almost daily on the news they say that they grabbed the mayor, or even the governor, then one official, then another. But the higher the seized position, the more shouts are heard about the arbitrariness of the authorities and the positioning of those who fell as victims of the regime begins.
    1. Sour
      Sour 19 August 2013 09: 36
      +9
      We don't really know anything. We can puff out our cheeks, throw thunder and lightning on the net and in our kitchen, but we know nothing real about the mayors, or about the governors, or about the Serdyukovs. We only know what television gives us. None of us are familiar with the materials of criminal cases. But everyone loves to discuss why someone was given little time, why someone was not arrested at all, but someone was allegedly illegally imprisoned. Maybe the wrong people are being arrested here? Or maybe those. How do we know? We argue with a clever look, but we do not possess real information. Most often, we argue according to the principle: "I don't like his face, he is probably a corrupt official. Again, in the Vremya program they hinted at this, and bloggers say so. I would have put him in jail and as soon as possible. Better yet, shoot him."
      1. d_trader
        d_trader 19 August 2013 16: 22
        +2
        Look. Maybe Serdyukov has long been surrendering his masters from whom he received orders on how best to destroy the Russian army. So they are pulling rubber noodles on their ears, they are hanging about the investigation, and so on and so on. How is it necessary to hide behind. Well, that's me, by the way, that we really don’t know anything about the actual state of affairs
    2. JIaIIoTb
      JIaIIoTb 19 August 2013 10: 22
      +6
      The phrase is taken out of context. I am for the fight against corruption, but I am against those who are either thoughtlessly or, on the contrary, well understanding what he is doing, takes every opportunity to throw coal into the furnace of dissatisfaction with their own country. Our country is rocking. And you are willingly or not willingly involved in this.

      Sincerely.
      1. fokino1980
        fokino1980 19 August 2013 11: 17
        +1
        The system in which corruption became the basis of the state was developed not by Putin and his team, but by those who are now "stirring up" the people. You just can't sweep it away, you need another system, but where can you get them? Everything is threaded through the arteries, etc. Corruption cases will be very difficult to bring to the end, the "mutual guarantee" laid by the "Yeltsin chicks" will be more abruptly "Cosa Nostra". There are forces in the government, in the Justice Department and in the TFR, for which it is extremely unprofitable for them to bring open cases to their logical conclusion, court and prison. As soon as they feel threatened, they will maintain "non-systemic opposition" with which the ties are strong enough. How Putin V.V. will get out of this until I understand.
        1. smile
          smile 19 August 2013 14: 19
          0
          fokino1980
          I support, it’s the same as changing the engine on the go in one detail on the go ... but you can’t do it all at once, the machine will stop .... damn it, people don’t know that even in Soviet times, corruption cases were the most difficult for investigation.
          1. nbw
            nbw 19 August 2013 18: 17
            0
            +1 to the two previous commenters. I do not understand those who shout that it is necessary "to shoot everyone and imprison everyone, and then general happiness will come." Even Stalin, with his methods, had to uproot the presumptuous "functionaries" carefully and gradually, pulling out the support along the planks from under the most odious figures. And Putin, who is very limited in funds, has to confront the huge and powerful anti-Russian Chubais-oligarchic system, in fact, the "fifth column" that came to power with the collapse of the Union and will not leave it voluntarily.

            And then some comrades shout "why, why, he doesn't plant everyone in a row" ... If you slash from the shoulder - there will come a country in the country. Let them remember the 17th year, the 91st, finally look at Egypt.
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 19 August 2013 18: 21
              +2
              I support, during the NEP, 800000 people were detained for corruption, but after all, someone had to work. The most malicious were punished, the others were released.
            2. vladsolo56
              vladsolo56 19 August 2013 19: 10
              +1
              It is necessary to give orders and medals to them, then everyone will feel good, everyone will be happy? You also need an order for supporting thieves and embezzlers
              1. nbw
                nbw 19 August 2013 19: 27
                +2
                You also need an order for supporting thieves and embezzlers
                Kindly show me where I am supported thieves and embezzlers. Or do you prefer not to be responsible for words in "these Internet of yours"? I am a simple working person, and your words about supporting thieves are offensive to me. I advise you to read my message carefully again.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. smile
        smile 19 August 2013 14: 15
        +2
        JIaIIoTb
        Yes, there, upstream, there are people who rock the boat precisely because of thoughtlessness ... just to shout .... it’s even a shame for them, normal men .... the impression is that they don’t know what they are doing ...: (((
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 19 August 2013 19: 04
          +2
          I quote: smile (2) RU Today, 14:15 PM JIaIIoTb
          Yes, there, upstream, there are people who rock the boat precisely because of thoughtlessness ... just to shout .... it’s even a shame for them, normal men .... the impression is that they don’t know what they are doing ...: (((_ _ _ _

          Good afternoon, dear Vladimir!
          I can not for your kindness, sincere, do not return the favor for yesterday, do not blame me! smile
          1.
          Relatively gullible and suggestible.
          2.
          What prevents all the more experienced, step by step, to show people that the truth is not what I like / nice / smells good, but what is underlined by FACTS, and double-checked from different angles!
          3.
          And sometimes a caustic underhanded remark from the enemy may be true, in contrast to a beautiful lie / half-truth from faithful brothers ?! Therefore, it is probably worth listening to all the arguments and facts, to evaluate and come to YOUR personal opinion, which may differ or coincide with both friendly and enemy words.
          4.
          Why do you think that now (2013.8) naive people "rock the boat"?
          5.
          Is it possible at all to rock the Titanic, especially when water is pouring into the hole with might and main through the old, unsealed hole?

          What do you think about that?
          1. nbw
            nbw 19 August 2013 19: 21
            +3
            Despite the fact that it was not addressed to me, I allow myself to wedge into the conversation.
            Is it possible to rock the Titanic at all, especially when water is pouring into the hole with might and main through the old, unsealed hole?
            The analogy is twisted. "Titanic with a hole" is, for example, Germany in the spring of 45. Or Syria six months ago. What do you think?

            Do you, I beg your pardon for the tactless question, get your salary on time? And in, that way, 95th? How many planes were received by the troops in the 90s? and how much is coming in now? This I am hinting that there is no need to dramatize the situation in the country. About the fact that "everything is very, very bad in Russia, and every day it is getting worse" like to shout "human rights activists" picking up crumbs at the American embassy, ​​and other political prostitutes. I don't quite understand why they should be like them.
            1. michajlo
              michajlo 19 August 2013 20: 16
              +1
              Dear "Nick" !, Excuse me, I'm used to calling my interlocutor by name, I don't know how to call you?

              Let's not interfere with "human rights defenders" with people who allow themselves the audacity to reflect on their past mistakes and look ahead, soberly calculating what and how, without a cheap hat-whining.

              Remember the lessons of Halkin-Gol, the White Finnish won, the beginning of the Second World War and many other "painful facts".
              Are you completely sure that if tomorrow flames up in the CIS, we will all be ready to repel and attack?

              Regarding dramatization. After all, in addition to weapons and equipment, the FIRST FIRST victory is the BATTLE SPIRIT!

              And with what cry tomorrow the commanders will raise the fighters to attack:
              - "For Putin and Deripaska!"
              or
              - "For Gazprom and Milera!"

              Do you understand what I'm talking about? We are still losing the ideological war. The connecting rod, the “idea of ​​socialism,” has been KNOCKED out of our hands.

              In general, I do not urge anyone to hide in a corner, disarm the machine gun and surrender to the mercy of the winner / "merciful friend from the West."

              But if NOW the situation is just DANGEROUS, the whole world is on the verge of 3rd MV / or it has already begun to blaze, then half measures will NOT SAVE US !!!

              And the real actions of the authorities and politicians in the CIS (with the exception of Belarus) are such that it seems that there are still "10-12 years of peace", and even then, first of all, it is necessary to DO-grab everything that is still called STATE by mistake! fool

              So, will you still continue to call my fears, thoughts and assumptions "screams at the American embassy"?
              1. nbw
                nbw 19 August 2013 20: 40
                +1
                I don’t know how to dignify you?
                Parents called Nikolai smile
                if tomorrow flames up in the CIS
                What is CIS? That bullshit "pseudo-state" that was turned on to us, taking away Great Russia (USSR)?
                will we all be ready to deflect and attack?
                By reading the materials on this site you have the opportunity to make sure that every day we are more and more ready for war.
                And with what cry tomorrow commanders will raise fighters to attack
                "For the Motherland". "For Russia". Why are you bringing in some Deripaskov (by the way, who is this?) And Millerov? I have a Motherland! And you?
                The connecting rod, the “idea of ​​socialism,” has been KNOCKED out of our hands.
                Not without it. Although at the end of the existence of the Union, the idea rotted ...
                But if NOW the situation is just DANGEROUS, the whole world is on the verge of 3rd MV / or it has already begun to blaze, then half measures will NOT SAVE US !!!
                Don't have to scream wink Agree that it would be unreasonable to speed up the direct aggression of the States (which can be realized, for example, by means of intensified "feeding" of the jihadists in the North Caucasus).
                and even then, first you need to DO-grab everything that is also mistakenly called STATE!
                It seems to me that here you are wrong. Putin is slowly taking over the national wealth that had previously been owned by the State Department’s proteges.
                1. michajlo
                  michajlo 19 August 2013 21: 48
                  +2
                  Thanks for the reply, dear Nikolay!
                  If I’m more calmly compare my statements and your description of my notes, it seems to me that you and I are BOTH talking about ONE and the same, just each in his own way !?
                  I will allow myself to clarify a little the remaining non-connections, perhaps we will better understand each other, since I consider it the main thing to look for what is CONNECTING at all here on the military site, and not argue hoarsely about trifles.

                  "What is the CIS?" - For this I use the old concept, since it includes all the entire territory of the ex-USSR, and Russia so far is only the land of the Russian Federation. And I still hope that I will live to see the moment that Russia will revive, if not all / most of the Union.
                  In addition, my dear Ukraine, "stubbornly turns away from the vehicle" and reaches for the EU. Personally, I am afraid that in 6-8 years it will repeat the "Caucasian path", it will be divided into parts through the War, and from it the fire may spread to Russia and Belarus, as its neighbors.

                  Cry "For Putin and ..." and "For ..." - I used from the words of one retired old colonel (forgot his last name), who wrote about this in the media that now the cry "For the Motherland, For Stalin, For Lenin" - will not have such force as in times of the Second World War. I'm glad you know the RIGHT battle cry! It warmed my soul. This retiree also added that "many of the army have gone from career old officers with experience" or they themselves wrote the report. And from Afghan veterans, I myself heard in 1989 on the Afghan border that young hot officers will become seasoned even when they themselves bring the bodies of their soldiers from the battlefield on armor and sign the funeral for their relatives ...

                  Please clarify Nikolai, where did you find in my words that I "I am forcing the US aggression on ..."? I did not write such definitions and did not urge everyone who has an itch in one part of the body to immediately sail on a barge to Syria.
                  In the rest of your clarifications of my words and concerns, we are with you - agree !? Or are we still arguing?
                  What else was appropriate for me to clarify to all of you, so that the hotheads in VO would not mistake me for "a co-chief of Novodvorskaya and other evil spirits"?

                  Sincerely, Mikhailo.
                  1. nbw
                    nbw 19 August 2013 22: 57
                    -1
                    I think the main thing is to look for what is CONNECTING to everyone here on the military site
                    Unfortunately, a considerable part of the local public, for some reason, considers it necessary to support the United States State Department in the fight against Russian statehood (with phrases like "Down with Putin", "Russia is heading for shit", "We will all die", etc.). P.). And this, of course, does not contribute to unity at all.
                    I use the old concept, since it includes all the entire territory of the ex-USSR, and Russia so far is only the land of the Russian Federation.
                    Got you smile And in the very concept of "Russian Federation" I see something separating. What, nah, federation ?! Russia, and that's it! The RSFSR was even better.
                    I still hope that I will live to see the moment that Russia will revive, if not all / most of the Union.
                    I fully share your hopes.
                    in 6-8 years it will repeat the "Caucasian path", it will be divided into parts through the War, and from it the fire can spread to Russia and Belarus, as its neighbors.
                    And you are not the only one who is afraid. In general, the impression is that our "partners", their mother, are deliberately leading to this.
                    he wrote about this in the media that now the cry "For the Motherland, For Stalin, For Lenin" will not have such force as during the Second World War
                    I will tell you frankly - most of our soldiers saw this Stalin in a coffin, and Lenin with him (first-hand information - my grandfather fought in Crimea). Many in the family were deported and dispossessed, so that they have great love for the Communist Party and Comrade personally. Stalin was not tested. This was a ubiquitous phenomenon; too many people were sent to the Siberian taiga and Kazakhstan steppes by the dog’s tail. And it was not Stalin. Then they fought for their homeland! And now we will fight for it, darling, if necessary.
                    Please clarify Nikolai, where did you find in my words that I "force the US aggression on ..."?
                    I'll be happy to clarify (it seems that in the previous post I was not very clear). So, refinement: if Putin (and his associates) just now begin to jail everyone (Chubais, Nemtsovs and other oligarchic riffraff - and this means a sharp change in the state structure), then we cannot avoid direct aggression. Americans need money, do you understand? They have a crisis, homeless blacks need to pay benefits and develop new CDs. If Russia stops paying "tribute" to them sharply, others will immediately reach for it. And then Uncle Sam will blow the roof off.
                    so that the hot heads on VO do not mistake me for "co-chief of Novodvorskaya and other evil spirits"
                    God forbid, I didn’t accept) I wouldn’t write anything to Novodvorskaya’s companion, I guess.

                    With respect, Nicholai.
                    1. michajlo
                      michajlo 20 August 2013 16: 12
                      0
                      Good afternoon, dear Nikolai!

                      Thank you for your answers. Sorry to write late, late yesterday evening, my answer to you again "evaporated into" 1 "and" 0 "/ ie after the message" error "- all zeros.

                      It is very pleasant to state that we agree with each other in many of the issues I have raised.

                      Only in two questions (the first and last according to your answer), we still do not look at the same problems.

                      Your first question:

                      Any criticism of Putin, the Kremlin, drawing attention to the failure of the authorities to fulfill their promises, a real deterioration in the standard of living of ordinary people (not the "top 20 thousand" fat cats), impudent pilfering of the people's wealth and stealing from the treasury,
                      not only by you Nikolay, but by seven adherents of the current government,
                      - is automatically perceived as "the execution of the instructions of the Amer. Embassy / Council of Deputies by these INBATING CRITICS",
                      - with the goal of the collapse of the collapse of Russia.

                      Moreover, it was you (above the topic) who insisted that any criticism (and from me personally) means in your opinion ONLY ONE:
                      - "down with Putin (" or on his gallows "???),
                      - "Oh, everything is in f * ope", etc.
                      - that "for the joy of the USA", I am a member of the forum VO / critic, I will spit on my HOME country and my leaders ...

                      And you probably do not want to understand the CRITICISM of the authorities, or your "shoulder straps" / the task being performed from the command do not allow you (this is for you ranking me among human rights defenders and other demons smile ),
                      that criticism from below / from the people, especially with reference to REALLY unfulfilled promises to the authorities and to THREAT the country from pests protected by THIS power,
                      - does not come from "Western shit * okratic enemies of Russia"
                      - but from the patriots of the country (in my case, the patriot of the Union and fraternal Ukraine / not "independent").

                      And with regard to the fact that Putin, not an independent, but a "controlled" top person of the country, as I say and some other members of the forum, and this is many here on VO, hurts "for a living"
                      we can leave this issue AWESOME and TIRING you for later / not to sharpen now unnecessarily,
                      and time (4-6 years) will judge us all,
                      - YOU were right, believing the authorities on the word,
                      or that your aspirations and trust were unfounded,
                      - i.e. Alas, I was right ...
                      True, time is running out quickly, and it may happen that tomorrow it may be shame for the people to demand decisive measures from the Guarantor ...

                      Question to you: what is your time zone? I have Bratislava ie + 2 / + 3_winter to the Moscow time zone.

                      Sincerely, Mikhailo.
                      1. nbw
                        nbw 22 August 2013 12: 40
                        +1
                        Oh, Michael, what a muddy and long topic we raised. Her topic is better to discuss something strong for a bottle drinks
                        Only in two questions (the first and last according to your answer), we still do not look at the same problems.

                        Is it necessary to strive for the same views? We have lived different lives, and look at the world differently.
                        Any criticism of Putin, the Kremlin

                        Let me disagree with you. Not any. Criticism (constructive) is one thing, and sweeping accusations are another matter (this, like the paragraph you answered, does not apply specifically to you).
                        real deterioration in the standard of living of the common people

                        Remember the 90s. Can anyone really say that life has become worse since then ?? This will be an obvious distortion.
                        Frankly, there is no particular desire now to prove obvious things, do not blame me.
                        Putin, not an independent, but a "controlled" top person of the country

                        His latest actions show that he is completely independent. Another thing is that he is not an "autocrat", but a figure in the recent past that is generally nominal. Since the beginning of the 90s, the country has been ruled by oligarchs - Washington's henchmen - this is fairly common knowledge. But in recent years, Putin has shown more and more independence.
                        YOU were right, believing the authorities to the word

                        What are you ... :) How can you take the word of people whose language, by apt definition, is given in order to hide their thoughts? :) "Judge them by their deeds." And Putin's deeds are such that Western politicians and the press go-no, criticizing his policies. And this is the highest praise in my eyes. Gorbachev, who destroyed Great Russia, is glorified in the West and awarded with the highest state. awards, Putin - scolded and branded "imperial". This means that, in spite of the fact that many of his steps are incomprehensible to us, who see political life through the "distorting mirror" of the anti-popular false media, they lead to the strengthening of Russia and the weakening of the position of the West.

                        Something like that.

                        With respect, Nicholai.

                        PS
                        what is your time zone?

                        Moscow time.
              2. Arabist
                Arabist 19 August 2013 22: 53
                +1
                What lessons should we recall from the Halkin Gol? As far as I remember, we won. But the country of the Rising Sun is definitely not worth forgetting about them. And we always fought for the homeland, and not for its leaders.
          2. smile
            smile 19 August 2013 22: 06
            +2
            michajlo
            Eh. I can’t make fun of you ... even a minus to put a hand does not rise, you simply disarm me with your peace.
            I will answer very briefly.
            1. Most of the "facts" that the swinging operate on are not.
            2. The available facts are immediately hastily evaluated in a certain direction.
            3. There is not always a desire or opportunity to get involved in an argument :)))
            4. Most of those who write comments already have their own opinion, which can not be overwhelmed by anything. They can change it themselves, if you think about it ...
            5. Who am I to prove something to someone? By the way, experience is not a guarantee against errors. And by the nature of my activity, I’m used to working with facts, establishing the truth and marking down false versions, as well as generating them (I say right away that I’m not a police officer), so please don’t hesitate, I can assess the situation .... :) )))
            5. And the last thing, in disputes about corruption, unfortunately, a professional approach, skills and availability of materials of criminal cases would be desirable, without this it would be peremptory to argue ... all the more to give an assessment .... it is difficult .... you understand, what am I getting at ... :)))
            If they shook the most powerful USSR. then rock Russia. probably not harder? Moreover, most colleagues are simply obliged to remember who, how, how did it .... and continue to do it.
            You see, even the presentation of the thesis and it just turned out so briefly ... but I love reading more than writing ....
            1. michajlo
              michajlo 19 August 2013 22: 56
              +2
              Thanks for the answer Vladimir!
              Those. how it will gradually become clear that in many ways our views are similar to you, well, and small, not fundamental differences "we will polish with you to a mirror shine with a bastard file", since "micron-skin" is alien to us in its name. smile

              I can only agree with you regarding the fact that much of real life, we ALL discuss without exception on some unverified opinions, judgments or rumors, and do not always wait for FACTS and EVIDENCE.
              I agree with you that if you speak the legal language, in order to accuse someone that he is a criminal, a thief, you must first prove his guilt with facts and evidence.
              On the other hand, life experience says that even if someone is still "at the top" and "crystal clear" today, then the "opinion of the common people" is often more accuratethan the determination of the Investigator, the Prosecutor or the Court. Especially when you consider that in the vastness of the ex-USSR, the concept of "independent court" is itself very controversial ...

              Regarding the "rocking", in this I can agree with you. In my opinion, the state of affairs in Russia is still very shaky, so EVERYTHING is being built WITHOUT a solid foundation / IDEA, and the pillars of the "private entrepreneurial spirit" can break down at any moment.

              Regarding disputes and exchange of views.

              In my opinion, they are simply necessary, because they help from a different angle, to look at me for a long time a familiar question and think, but am I not mistaken?
              In my opinion, the main thing in ALL disputes, especially at a distance, is RESPECT for the INTERVIEWER, it does not matter if I like him or disgust him. Because it is very easy for any of us, including me, to send, offend or undeservedly insult someone in the heat of the moment. Well, if someone behaves like a piglet, he will not stand "without grunting" for a long time. This is an aspect, I am pleased to note here that the "Framework for Disputes", our Admins they guard well which in any way only INCREASES the status of the VO site as serious and WEIGHED.
              And such a reputation, admins and forum users probably long earned, and the "good name" of the site itself has a high price.

              Well, the fact that many of the "brave iron" paratroopers and marines here may regard me as soft or kind-hearted, it doesn't matter, I will survive it. I think that I will no longer be mistaken for "Novodvorskaya's nephew". smile I can only say that by my nature, I am used to saying what I think, although sometimes it has a high price. But on the other hand, the one with whom he "scratched himself" rarely allowed himself to be rude or humiliated for the second time.

              I always consider it necessary to repeat the words of Galileo: -... yes I believe in god "but still it turns."

              Sincerely, Mikhailo. hi
              1. smile
                smile 19 August 2013 23: 28
                +1
                 michajlo


                I never said that we have diametrically opposed opinions. :))) Especially if you don’t say that Putin works under control like a sleepy radio operator ... :)))
                Unfortunately, based on my experience, popular opinion on specific criminal cases almost never corresponds to the true situation (this applies even to household news), moreover, it always has such a distant relation to the truth ... that you stop being angry with the magazine at least for get the money, you can justify them ... :)))

                Our courts, of course, are still those .... but they don’t go for a direct forgery and their manipulations are not so impudent as it seems to someone ... by the way, giving a judge a bribe is now an order of magnitude harder than a year at 95m when corruption was total and it was easy to give bribes .... but now they are larger, risk pay ... :))))))

                Regarding disputes, the site and our moderators, who have repeatedly given me a hat, I completely agree ... :)))))

                Nobody thought you were soft- you are persistent, tenacious and tough ... you just put your speech in a soft form .... :))))) sometimes this is more effective than direct pressure .... by the way, paratroopers and marines are usually not only iron and gallant, but not worse than others ... and some are much smarter ... :))) so that you do not raise them in vain .... :))))

                And I won’t hand over the saber to the warehouse — a good word and a revolver is much more convincing than a good word alone !!! :)))))

                Okay. Bye.
        2. SPACE
          SPACE 19 August 2013 19: 27
          +2
          Quote: fokino1980

          Quote: smile

          Quote: nbw

          Quote: Arabist

          Quote: smile
          Yes, there, upstream there are people who rock the boat precisely because of thoughtlessness

          I support you, think in the right direction. In reality, it is still much more complicated. And this cannot be voiced, many, due to their primitiveness, will never be able to understand this. The real state affairs and people doing them cannot be understood, thinking in simple philistine categories.
          1. sashka
            sashka 19 August 2013 19: 34
            0
            Quote: SPACE
            I support you, think in the right direction. In reality, it is still much more complicated. And this cannot be voiced, many, due to their primitiveness, will never be able to understand this. The real state affairs and people doing them cannot be understood, thinking in simple philistine categories.

            It is impossible to answer, because it is impossible to understand this process .. You cannot plant thieves. but all the others are possible .. I do not see the logic .. And the "guarantor" is resting in Sochi. He "does not care" all the spills on the Amur .. And the "zits-chairman" is also there. In Sochi .. Fuck really? The site lives at the expense of Volodin and three or four other people .. The rest simply "cling" to the words of other People and "comment" All this is wrong ..
            1. SPACE
              SPACE 19 August 2013 20: 02
              +1
              Quote: Sasha
              It is impossible to answer, because it is impossible to understand this process

              You can understand, if you are very careful, not everything is so simple, not everything is within the line of sight and corruption is not so simple. Better look at the main trends ...

              The true significance of today's events we will learn at best in ten years.
          2. nbw
            nbw 19 August 2013 19: 39
            +1
            The real state affairs and people doing them cannot be understood, thinking in simple philistine categories.
            The point is not even in categories, but in the fact that we, in essence, do not know what is happening there, "in the highest echelons of power," in fact. We only know that we are being fed by the media that directly and openly serve anti-Russian, anti-popular interests. In this thread, I gave a link to the President's speech on sovereignty - such things will never be shown on TV, they only show any crap about amphorae and pike.
  9. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 19 August 2013 09: 18
    0
    What are you talking about? Do you understand the meaning of this "propaganda"? Dear friends
    I'm on the verge of another attempt to cancer Russia!
    1. fokino1980
      fokino1980 19 August 2013 11: 18
      0
      It’s hard to disagree!
  10. fzr1000
    fzr1000 19 August 2013 09: 23
    0
    Corruption in state defense industry can be equated with high treason. A member of the Defense Committee Igor Zotov ("Fair Russia") intends to submit the corresponding bill to the State Duma.
    Eser believes that the proposed amendments to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation will help reduce the level of corruption in the defense industry.
    Earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin called "corruption in the sphere of national security" treason.
    Today, the document will be sent to the Prime Minister and the Supreme Court for an expert assessment, after which it will be submitted to the lower house of parliament.
    The amendments make treason the actions or inaction of officials "entailing a weakening of the country's defense capability." If they are adopted, bribery in the field of state defense orders will be punished more severely. Article 275 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (high treason), under which the deputy intends to bring corruption crimes in the defense industry, implies imprisonment for a term of 12 to 20 years.
    Representatives of the military-industrial complex, by giving or receiving bribes, "are cheating on the state that has given them confidence," the explanatory note to the project says. The adoption of his amendments will help reduce the level of corruption in the defense industry, the legislator is sure. "Serdyukovshchina" in the Ministry of Defense showed that it is necessary to establish order in this department, negligent officials who sell military property are state traitors, "I. Zotov told the publication.
    According to the estimates of the chief military prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky, almost every fifth ruble is plundered as a result of corruption in the defense order sphere.
  11. niecke
    niecke 19 August 2013 09: 24
    0
    I don’t know the Kremlin games, I’ll just say-80% of the power inmates have American-Israeli citizenship ... I think there’s nothing more to say !!! imagine a similar incident in Germany, America, Israel? is it really funny? !!
    1. smile
      smile 19 August 2013 14: 27
      +3
      niecke
      Request. Please substantiate the statement that 80 percent of the "powerful inmates" (who, by the way, are the Duma deputies? The President's Office?) Has dual or triple citizenship. Anyone.
      It’s very interesting, because if this is so, it’s horror, the precedents of which are only in the Baltic States with their American presidents. And if this is not so ... then this is a lie. Moreover, conclusions based on a false statement, respectively, have no value. And then you ... who?
      I beg you .... :)))
    2. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 19 August 2013 19: 13
      +3
      Quote: niecke
      I don’t know the Kremlin games, I’ll just say-80% of the power inmates have American-Israeli citizenship ... I think there’s nothing more to say !!! imagine a similar incident in Germany, America, Israel? is it really funny? !!

      You're lying again.
      All of them have Russian citizenship; this is their foreign citizenship.
      So it’s a matter of changing their capital to Russian citizenship.
      In Germany, America, Israel, this is not an incident, but a common thing, an incident would have happened if their senators and presidents invested their dollars and shekels in Russian banks.
  12. Aboriginal
    Aboriginal 19 August 2013 09: 25
    0
    What is needed is a fight against corruption, not a victory over it! Who will win the embezzlement? Isn't the minister in a share with his deputy, who was stealing? Who will give the signal for the landing of Serdyukov? The one with whom he shared the loot? Or did he eat in one person? Isn't there a compass on an investigator conducting a corruption case? Doesn't he have a Lexus and other wealth? Doesn't a riot policeman fighting illegal immigrants rob them? WHO will defeat corruption? No one! And we will fight)))
  13. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 19 August 2013 09: 31
    13
    Another round of anti-corruption:
    The Main Military Investigation Department of the Investigative Committee refused to open a criminal case against former Russian defense minister Anatoly Serdyukov and former head of the department’s education department Yekaterina Priezheva on the purchase of furniture for the Krasnodar Presidential Cadet School (KPKU), the Kommersant newspaper reported on Monday.
    According to the military prosecutor’s office, Serdyukov, being the manager of the budget allocated by the Ministry of Defense, used his powers contrary to the interests of the service and the requirements of the legislation on the protection of competition. Military investigators did not find a corpus delicti in the actions of Serdyukov and Polezhaeva. The publication reports that the military prosecutor's office plans to appeal against the refusal to institute criminal proceedings.

    The Ministry of Defense paid only 40 million rubles more than the furniture really cost.
    Read more on Forbes.ru: http://www.forbes.ru/news/243641-skr-otkazalsya-vozbuzhdat-protiv-serdyukova-ugo
    lovnoe-delo

    THE FIGHT AGAINST CORRUPTION CONTINUES. BUT WE ARE NOT 37 years old. SUCCESS ...

    BTW
    Anatoly Serdyukov also appears in the investigation into fraud in transactions with real estate, land and shares owned by Oboronservis. To date, five criminal cases have been opened against various persons, but Serdyukov does not appear among them. Since October 2012, several senior officials, including Serdyukov, lost their posts in the Ministry of Defense.

    EVERYTHING GIVED PROMISES TO TAKE CORRUPTION IN RUSSIA ,,,
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. Raptor75
    Raptor75 19 August 2013 09: 45
    +3
    TFR Russia refused to institute criminal proceedings against Serdyukov. No one doubted...
  16. Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 19 August 2013 09: 58
    +1
    - Criminal cases related to Oboronservis and Rosagroleasing (ex-Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov and ex-Minister of Agriculture Elena Skrynnik are involved in them) http://www.ng.ru.

    I don’t know about Skrynnik, but the truth is about Serdyukov and his favorite - the Main Military Investigative Department of the Investigative Committee refused to prosecute the former Minister of Defense of Russia Anatoly Serdyukov and the former head of the department of education of the department Yekaterina Priezheva on the purchase of furniture for Krasnodar Presidential Cadet School (KPKU), reported on Monday the newspaper Kommersant.
    Read more on Forbes.ru: http://www.forbes.ru/news/243641-skr-otkazalsya-vozbuzhdat-protiv-serdyukova-ugo
    lovnoe-delo
  17. Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 19 August 2013 10: 02
    +3
    "- Removal from the State Duma of deputies suspected of violating anti-corruption ethics http://www.forbes.ru." - "to remove" the deputies from the Duma, you do not need to look for a corruption component forever - there are members of the organized criminal group and nothing - for example, the deputy Khairullin "Red East".
  18. optimist
    optimist 19 August 2013 10: 12
    +3
    All this is just another show for the life of lovers, which is the bulk of the population of the Russian Federation, which continues to believe in the "good tsar" and "bad boyars". All this rat fuss (like "the fight against corruption") painfully reminds me of the fight against the privileges of the late 80s in the USSR. As a result of this "struggle," the privileges not only increased, but also huge property was acquired by the "struggling". But there is one fundamental difference: then the "elite" personally "bankrupted" the USSR in order to destroy it with impunity. And now the most adequate understand that Russia is not a bottomless barrel and endlessly steal will not work. But even if we assume that the current "guarantor" will seriously decide to fight corruption (which only idiots can believe in), then literally the very next day the "elite" will do about the same thing to him that his associates did with Pavel 1m...
    1. nbw
      nbw 19 August 2013 18: 27
      +1
      l.oh.ov, which is the bulk of the population of the Russian Federation
      It is understood that you are not a "sucker". All around "suckers", and you alone are smart and advanced. Not taking on a lot, huh?
      the "guarantor" will seriously decide to fight corruption (in which only idiots can believe)
      You called the idiots of many good people. Anyone who disagrees with you - idiots? And the face will not crack? wink
      literally the very next day, the "elite" will do with him about the same as the close ones did with Paul the 1st.
      Well, whatever they did, he split up the "fifth column" carefully and slowly.
      1. optimist
        optimist 19 August 2013 21: 38
        +3
        Quote: nbw
        It is understood that you are not a "sucker". All around "suckers", and you alone are smart and advanced. Not taking on a lot, huh?

        No, not much. Moreover, such a stupid people still need to search. So stupidly p. Shit your country in the 91st and continue to proserit it. But I do not separate myself from others. Just D. urak, guessing that he is D. urak, is already half smart. laughing Such "clever men" as you wore a hunchback in their arms, then ebna, now they shout "urya" vvp. I have never done this and am not going to. And to be able to admit one's stupidity is not given to everyone ...
    2. michajlo
      michajlo 19 August 2013 19: 21
      +3
      Good afternoon, dear Alexey! You are completely right (Your note, 10: 12). good
      In my opinion, the "guarantor" from the same clip as all this "wrecking codlo".
      It's just that few people below understand that this is ONLY at the direction of the "directors", the "guarantor" must frown menacingly, issue Decrees and Resolutions and repeatedly promise us to the DEATHS, all that the authorities have not done in 13 years of rubbing their pants in The Kremlin.
      1. Anti
        Anti 19 August 2013 20: 16
        +1
        Quote: michajlo
        SMERDAM


        However, the parasite word Mikhailo winked

        V. I. Dahl:
        Smerd - a man from the mob, vile (by birth), man, a special class or class of slaves, slaves; later serfdom. Smerda look more than swearing. And don’t sing honey, just don’t swear (do not call) stink, about the yard. I do not want to live with smerd, but I can’t live with a nobleman. hi
        1. michajlo
          michajlo 19 August 2013 20: 26
          0
          Good afternoon, dear "Nick"! You are right about the content of this word! good

          I often use this term of MORTALITY because the military AUTOCORRECTOR here on the pages of VO, the more appropriate word B * S * D * L * O (to describe how the political elite / oligarchs look at the common people) replaces with "nothing ".

          Thanks for clarifying! hi
          1. Anti
            Anti 19 August 2013 20: 53
            0
            However, I’m not sure that anyone would think that he is B-S-D-L-O. I don’t understand whose life you are worried about, why are you raising the waves? Today I talked with a colleague, in short, he came from the Far East, he didn’t specify exactly, he was on vacation. He said that everyone in the villages was crying, there was no money, there was no work, and almost all were being built (houses on two floors), and each one had a car for many, and not everyone here could buy one. request
  19. Kolya
    Kolya 19 August 2013 10: 19
    +3
    Quote: 225chay
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    There is no war on corruption in Russia. In Russia, for many decades now, a war of corrupt officials has been going on.

    Here I look at these personalities of Shuvalov, Kozak and some others. What are they not our faces with other features ... alien, foreign or something

    to a point noticed!
  20. mejik
    mejik 19 August 2013 10: 25
    +2
    I think Putin listened, listened to Shuvalov and thought- And the truth is that I overdo it
  21. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 19 August 2013 10: 49
    +3
    The fight against corruption is certainly good, it's great; but until you tighten the Criminal Code, toughen up to max (since shooting is impossible) there will be no tangible results. Every day we talk about all new crimes and, as a rule, take bribes in WORKING OFFICES, i.e. in the workplace. Officials are confident in their impunity or in the possibility of bribing law enforcement officers ...
    In general, you give execution for embezzlers and bribe takers!
  22. Nitarius
    Nitarius 19 August 2013 10: 57
    +2
    Quote: koksalek
    Until the main thieves like those sitting with bracelets in mansions and stools are executed, no one will ever believe in this fake fight against corruption. I see only corrupt people who are fighting with the people and blame all the blame on ordinary people

    I agree with you! At all levels clearly visible, if not posa
  23. And raid
    And raid 19 August 2013 11: 00
    +2
    Quote: JIaIIoTb
    ... Our country is rocking. And you are willingly or not willingly involved in this.



    If people lived richly and beautifully, then you’ll shake this country !!!
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 19 August 2013 19: 02
      +4
      Quote: AndRade
      If people lived richly and beautifully, then you’ll shake this country !!!

      To live richly and beautifully, one must first stabilize the situation in Russia, rid the country of provocateurs, terrorists, "human rights defenders", screamers, foreign agents of influence and other rot.
      And if everyone doesn’t work, and they only tear their throats, they change the government every month, and we don’t see a beautiful and rich life like our ears.
      Enough of us perestroika-privatization, with the impudent lawlessness of thieves and rapists, with racketeering and banditry.
      They forgot already, as they did not pay salaries for a year, inflation jumped at 1000% a year, unemployment was more than 50%, plants stood, and armored vehicles were on duty at the posts of the traffic police?
  24. creak
    creak 19 August 2013 11: 03
    +3
    What kind of elite is it that needs to be nationalized? It's not natural resources ... From the ban on accounts abroad, our so-called the elite psychology of temporary workers will not change. It should be about creating a nationally oriented elite instead of the present, because, as they say, only the grave will correct the humpbacked. It is a pity that the government does not currently have people of caliber E.M. Primakov.
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 19 August 2013 18: 41
      +2
      Quote: ranger
      It should be about creating a nationally oriented elite instead of the present, because, as they say, only the grave will correct the humpbacked. It is a pity that the government does not currently have people of caliber E.M. Primakov.

      It is a pity that there are no people of caliber F.E. Dzerzhinsky, there is no one to create an Extraordinary Commission to combat corruption, espionage, terrorism and sabotage.
  25. Combitor
    Combitor 19 August 2013 11: 08
    0
    <Serdyukov escaped a criminal case
    08:50 / 19.08.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX / Days.Ru.
    Anatoly Serdyukov. Photo: ITAR-TASS
    The Main Military Investigation Directorate of the Investigative Committee of Russia refused to initiate a criminal case, the defendants of which could be ex-Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and former director of the education department of the military department Yekaterina Priezzheva>
    Something vile and ugly carries from this news. I don’t even want to comment. And what will the lackeys putinoids say about this? Will you continue to tear the throat for your Fuhrer and his regime?
    1. nbw
      nbw 19 August 2013 18: 32
      -1
      The words "putinoids" and "fuhrer" betray you as a liberal orangeoid. I will not even comment on everything else, it brings something nasty and vile from this post.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 August 2013 18: 37
        +2
        Quote: nbw
        The words "putinoids" and "Fuhrer" betray you as a liberal oranzhoid.

        Do not throw such definitions. Everything is actually a little different.
        Our country has problems, do you agree?
        1. nbw
          nbw 19 August 2013 18: 42
          +2
          Our country has problems, do you agree?
          Certainly. And the root of the problems is the "evil imperialists", no matter how old-fashioned it may sound, that is, a rotten and anti-Russian "elite" grown through and through by the West, as well as direct agents of influence (of which there are plenty even among ministers). Do you agree with that?
          1. Combitor
            Combitor 20 August 2013 02: 14
            +1
            nbw Yesterday, 18:42 ↑
            <... as well as direct agents of influence (of which there are plenty even among ministers ...>) And who prevents your moon-faced leader from pressing these "agents" to his fingernails? That's right, no one, because one shit is smeared with them. So he returned Surkov back, and added to such a "loaf" that he could neither say in a fairy tale nor describe with a pen.
      2. Combitor
        Combitor 20 August 2013 02: 15
        0
        nbw Yesterday, 18:32 ↑ As I understand it, the first one responded?
    2. ty60
      ty60 19 August 2013 22: 43
      0
      If the firing squad would be in the right eye.
  26. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 19 August 2013 11: 10
    +2
    “It seems to me that it has reached the point that not quite reasonable standards of behavior have begun to be adopted regarding some kind of foreign property, etc.”

    For this phrase alone, Shuvalov must be removed from office and his activities investigated. But we have all half measures. Officials outside of Russia were banned from storing money, but real estate was not. Gay propaganda was banned among adolescents, but not among adults. Serdyukov was removed, but they still won’t put him in prison. Etc.
  27. Nick_1972
    Nick_1972 19 August 2013 11: 53
    +5
    I would like to determine the concepts. In 1812, General Raevsky raised his troops to the attack, going ahead with two sons, Nakhimov, under bullets, led the defense of Sevastopol, and there are many more similar examples. So, in my opinion, these people are the elite. And gentlemen, which are discussed in the article - this is nomenclature. The presence of principles and the ability to uphold them, even at the cost of life, that, in my opinion, is the difference between the elite and the nomenclature.
  28. pahom54
    pahom54 19 August 2013 12: 18
    +1
    Quote: fzr1000
    Corruption in state defense industry can be equated with high treason.

    And why only in the defense industry ??? Remember the terms of state security - here is not only defense, but also the economy, and raw materials, and food security ... Yes, and we can say, informational ... And if we equate the actions of an official in the government, causing harm not only material but also moral (!!! This refers to damage to the prestige of a state official), and all this is combined together, then you can transplant half of them (you can all, only there is nobody to work, will serve). Look, even in communist China, the stealing deputy prime ministers are almost publicly shot ...
    Now, when Gorbachev is convicted and executed, lifting the moratorium on the death penalty, and they do the same with Taburetkin and his team, then we can talk about the fight against corruption.
    1. ty60
      ty60 19 August 2013 22: 50
      0
      and EBN to deprive the family of privileges
  29. JonnyT
    JonnyT 19 August 2013 12: 21
    +4
    bees against honey wassat

    and it all started with the abolition of confiscation of stolen property ......

    I do not believe that the so-called "elite" will deny themselves the opportunity to hang out beautifully with Western queers ........
  30. falcon
    falcon 19 August 2013 13: 06
    +1
    The author of the article is either a very naive person (and such an impression is not created), or holds
    readers for the latest fools. The essence of the article is discussions about which corrupt officials are better-
    "nationally oriented" or "liberal". Think about it, we are in all seriousness offered to discuss who
    better for Russia - Serdyukov or Chubais!
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 19 August 2013 18: 34
      +3
      Quote: falcon
      The author of the article is either a very naive person (and such an impression is not created), or holds
      readers for the latest fools. The essence of the article is discussions about which corrupt officials are better-
      "nationally oriented" or "liberal". Think about it, we are in all seriousness offered to discuss who
      better for Russia - Serdyukov or Chubais!

      Really! What is there to discuss? Hang them on a bitch, at the ends of one rope, whoever pulls is better.
      1. ty60
        ty60 19 August 2013 22: 53
        0
        and distribute them by weight to wallets, respectively. And we will observe parity!
  31. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 19 August 2013 13: 14
    +2
    In the USSR there was an idea, everything was done for its implementation, but it did not work out. In Russia, the main idea is to steal more and leave for London, so they embody it.
  32. slaventi
    slaventi 19 August 2013 13: 17
    +4
    Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov expresses concern about the anti-corruption campaign and the nationalization of the elites.

    He is worried correctly, and the turn will reach him
  33. Vtel
    Vtel 19 August 2013 15: 20
    +1
    The roof of Serdyuk is higher than the roof, and therefore we are the most "shod" country in the world. For complete absurdity, it is necessary to put the "deeply protected" Serdyukov at the head of the anti-corruption center. But noodles for the people are not the black caviar that is thrown day and night on top. Well-fed beggars are not a friend, so we are waiting for the continuation of the Santa Vasiliev series based on the opera of the same name by the famous furniture maker Serdyukov.
  34. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 19 August 2013 18: 31
    +3
    A large part of the modern Russian elite will try to circumvent anti-corruption laws, and continue to look towards the West. Indicative in this regard is the speech of one of the richest Russian civil servants, First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov, at the Russia-2013 forum, held in Moscow on April 16-19, 2013. In particular, it stated the following:
    “It seems to me that it has gotten to the point that not-so-reasonable standards of behavior have begun to be adopted regarding some kind of foreign property, etc.” http://www.newsru.com. It is symptomatic that the very first steps on this path already seem to some officials "not entirely reasonable." Therefore, as we move towards the nationalization of elites, there is a certain probability of a split of the modern Russian elite into “nationally oriented” and “liberal”, between which the struggle for power will begin.

    Not so easy.
    And we, the Russian people, for what? We will not stand aside, and those who look to the west, turn the bosko away. Only a leader is needed and an order - It's time!
    Whoever wants to the West, let them roll, a good riddance, but only bare.
    1. nbw
      nbw 19 August 2013 18: 38
      +1
      those who are looking to the west, we turn Bosko something. Only a leader is needed and an order - It's time!
      I fully support! There is also gunpowder in the flasks and cartridges in the horn. And there is also an opinion that events are accelerating, and the "order" will soon sound:

      http://politobzor.net/show-3342-putin-bratya-i-sestry-podnimaytes-na-zaschitu-ot
      echestva.html


      .
      1. Karabin
        Karabin 19 August 2013 22: 00
        +3
        Quote: nbw
        and the "order" will soon sound:

        Look, don’t miss. Here, here are voiced. There will be something on the site to tryndet.
    2. Karabin
      Karabin 19 August 2013 21: 57
      +2
      Quote: Corsair5912
      And we, the Russian people, for what?

      The fact that he would come up with a good king and watch his bad boyars dig, who will take away how much. In this case, the king - Urya.
      Quote: Corsair5912
      We will not stand aside

      So we stand.
      Quote: Corsair5912
      Only a leader is needed and an order -

      A year ago they chose. Just do not wait for the order.
      Quote: Corsair5912
      Whoever wants to the West, let them roll, a good riddance, but only bare.

      Rather, they will leave you without pants.
      1. nbw
        nbw 19 August 2013 22: 37
        -1
        Just do not wait for the order.
        "History will judge us."
        1. Karabin
          Karabin 19 August 2013 22: 52
          +1
          Quote: nbw
          History will judge us

          but haven’t I decided yet, and 13 years of noodle weighing is not enough?
  35. voliador
    voliador 19 August 2013 19: 19
    +1
    And also like in China: caught on a bribe - "tower"!
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 19 August 2013 19: 23
      0
      In general, I approve, although corruption in China is also on top, albeit less than in Russia.
      1. alone
        alone 19 August 2013 19: 25
        +1
        and yet, in China, corrupt officials are shot, and in Russia and in the countries of the former union they are appointed to positions)))
  36. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 19 August 2013 23: 11
    +3
    ______________________________________