Military Review

“... First of all, first of all ...” - to be a shell! Well, and the gun? Gun, brother, to be later!

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From the internet you can find out a lot of information about different types. weapons, for example, guns designed KB, which was headed by Vasily Grigorievich Grabin. But in hundred-rone remains the problem of a shot (ammunition) to these guns.


A small digression — life, in my declining years, determined to “plunge” into weapon problems. How successfully I solved one of the problems can be found in my patents: 24844416RU, 2486438RU (year of priority - 2011). The first patent was issued for a bullet, which, in my opinion, will replace the bullet of the a la Krupp form of model 1881 of the year (reference to the bullet proposed by Krupp: http://www.ada.ru/guns/ballistic/bc/index.htm).

Without pretending to originality and completeness of the description, I propose to assume that I am writing this note not by malicious intent and also not by thoughtlessness, but only in pursuance of the Will of Fate.

As a techie, I’m interested in the question: “What is the design of 76,2 caliber mm ammunition, for example, for the F-22 divisional gun (model 1936),”? In the version that was put into service, she had a shot with the 1900 sample case of the year. Perhaps the designers offered a different shot? After all, the drawing is a kind of “manuscript” of the industrial era! Where can I find a drawing of this shot?

Instructive история F-22. Quotation from [2]: “In 1942 and the first half of 1943, the Wehrmacht’s most powerful anti-tank gun was indeed the F-22: in 1941, several of these guns were captured unharmed. Five hundred and sixty F-22 cannons were converted into towed anti-tank 7,62-cm cannons PAK 36 (r). The Germans squandered the F-22 camera, increased the charge 2,4 times, set the muzzle brake, reduced the angle of elevation, and eliminated the variable rollback mechanism. ”

Do not forget that, on June 22, 1941, a lot of military equipment, in particular, tanks, could not make one shot - due to the lack of such. The People's Commissariat of Ammunition did not provide the Red Army's need for ammunition!

Yes, the share of costs for the production of ammunition is large, but without them the weapon turns into a product that the enemy uses against you - the industry of your country has worked for the enemy!

Briefly about the situation in the scientific and technical field, Germany and the Land of the Soviets - before the Great Patriotic War, i.e. in between two wars.

Germany, as a defeated country, is humiliated and economically crushed by exorbitant indemnities. But, the intellectual and scientific elite of Germany is working, for example, designer gunsmith Hugo Schmeiser [Hugo Schmeisser (1884-1953)].

I quote from [1]: “... Contrary to the definitions of the Treaty of Versailles, it is thanks to Hugo Schmeisser that the production and research on machine guns is actively continuing. In 1928, Hugo Schmeisser developed the MP 28. ”

The gunsmith designer Hugo Schmeiser will once again say his word - he will create a StG-44!

In the Land of the Soviets, to create their own military-industrial complex, there is practically no intellectual-technical class — those who were shot during the fratricidal Civil War, who were expelled after it ended.

But, without the Armed Forces, there can be no Soviet State — just as Germany cannot regain its independence. Therefore, the Political Leadership of these countries and begin mutual cooperation, in particular, in the military-technical field.

In 1930, Vyacheslav Molotov was appointed chairman of the Council of People’s Commissars.

I quote from [2]: “On the sixth of August 1930, the head of the State weapons and machine-gun association, comrade Budnyak, and the head of BÜTAST, Mr. Hugo Freizenstein, concluded an agreement on technical assistance in Berlin.

Countries made a kind of “exchange” - Germany provided technical knowledge (technology), the carriers of which were German engineers. The country of the Soviets has provided part of its territory for the work of these specialists and the training of young engineers in the Land of Soviets. Many of these engineering students were recently called “off the plow”.

Undoubtedly, it is impossible to overestimate the role of the German engineers, but it is also impossible to underestimate the Russian engineers — they, as their superiors resolved, decided the problems set by time!

[2] ... Rheinmetall supplied all the documentation for the 2-cm anti-aircraft gun, two samples of the gun and one spare swinging part. The price of 2-cm gun "Rheinmetall" was 24 thousand German marks. For comparison, in 1933, the plant number 8 for one machine 2K paid 18 250 rubles.

Rheinmetall offered to install a 2-cm gun on a motorcycle. The weight of the motorcycle with two soldiers and 300 ammunition was supposed to be about 775 kg.
After testing 2-cm gun company "Rheinmetall" was put into service under the name "20-mm automatic anti-aircraft and anti-tank gun arr. 1930.

... On 1 in November 1936, the Red Army was armed with thirteen 20-mm guns arr. 1930 g. On wheel carriages and eighteen 20-mm guns arr. 1930 installed on ZIS-6 vehicles. In addition, there were 8 training guns on wheeled carriages.



2 cm Flak 38 Sfl. auf Pz.Kpfw.I Ausf.A (Flakpanzer I) - 20-mm anti-aircraft self-propelled unit based on a light tank PzKpfw I Ausf A, armed with an automatic anti-aircraft gun FlaK 38. http://www.nemectanki.ru/html/sau/sau_pz_i/sau_flakpz_i.html

“Transportation” 45-mm anti-tank gun calculation of the Red Army


[2] ... The production of 3,7-cm anti-tank guns of the Rheinmetall company was launched in 1931 at the plant number 8 in the Moscow region village of Podlipki, where the gun received factory in-dex 1K. By order of the Revolutionary Military Council of February 13 1931, the gun was adopted under the name of "37-mm anti-tank gun mod. 1930. The shots of the Soviet and German guns were completely interchangeable. ”

I draw attention to the dates: the contract is signed on 06.08.1930, and already on 13.02.1931, ie in a little more than five months, the 37-mm automatic cannon is accepted by the Red Army !!!

Could it have been possible to get such a quick result by ourselves - without the help of German engineers ?! NOT!!! The Germans-engineers passed on the most valuable thing - knowledge and production experience!

The factories, by trial and error, were able to understand and master the entire production and technological chain of manufacturing weapons and ammunition.

The Red Army began to learn how to handle new equipment, and the design bureaus and factories could improve both weapons and production. But even to copy an already finished sample, time is needed! And if everything had to start with a “clean slate” - and even in conditions, when it is clear that there will always be war!

One of the 37-mm anti-aircraft automatic cannon shots


From which publicly available documents to find out about 7,62 caliber ammunition for anti-aircraft guns, surely these questions were reflected in the contract ?! At which plant were all the above mentioned munitions manufactured?

The history of the creation of the above mentioned ammunition, as well as their development in production, is still waiting for its researcher - I just asked some questions!

List of sources:
[1] - Schmeisser, Hugo (German Hugo Schmeisser; 24 September 1884 - 12 September 1953).
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/
[2] - A.B. Wide range, "GOD OF WAR THIRD REICH".
http://www.plam.ru/tehnauka/genii_sovetskoi_artillerii_triumf_i_tragedija_v_grabina/p1.php
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  1. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 16 August 2013 09: 02 New
    +1
    The story of F-22 is instructive. Quote from [2]: “In 1942 and the first half of 1943, the Wehrmacht’s most powerful anti-tank gun was really the F-22: in 1941, several hundred of these guns were captured unharmed. Five hundred and sixty F-22 guns were converted into towed anti-tank 7,62-cm RAC 36 (r) cannons. The Germans squandered the F-22 chamber, increased the charge by 2,4 times, set the muzzle brake, reduced the elevation angle and excluded the variable rollback mechanism. ”
    In addition to the towed version, the Germans installed the f-22 on the chassis of the T-38 tanks, calling the anti-tank self-propelled guns "Marder". There were "Marder" and with German guns.
  2. na76
    na76 16 August 2013 09: 47 New
    +8
    As far as I understand the situation, the Germans had a wide variety of shots, including the same caliber, in the USSR, on the contrary, they tried to standardize the shots, according to the size of the cartridge case, i.e. all 76,2 mm shells were based on a 1900 g model shell, and even a 57 mm shell for the Grabin zis-2 was created on the basis of the same shell, new 152 mm shots in the USSR were made only for "genocide", before that all artillery systems 152 mm could shoot as much as shells from the 80s of the 22th century, if my memory serves me right. The Germans, even for f-500, which the Germans altered about XNUMX pieces, created an original shot, on the one hand, this led to the fact that German ammunition was superior to Soviet ammunition in terms of combat performance, but we won against the Germans in mass production costs, and given the deplorable state of the military-industrial complex of a young country of soviets, there was no alternative to this path at all, and judging by our flag on the Reichstag, in conditions of total war, this approach fully paid off
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 16 August 2013 11: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: nae76
      in the USSR, on the contrary, they tried to unify the shots, according to the size of the cartridge case i.e. all 76,2 mm shells were based on a 1900 g cartridge case, and even a 57 mm projectile for the grabin ZIS-2 was created on the basis of the same cartridge case


      If my memory serves me, the caliber of 76.2 mm was also due to the idea of ​​producing dual-use - the "caliber" of the canned meat was also equal to 76.2 mm, which made it possible to rivet shells instead of the canned meat if necessary without significant time costs for reconfiguring the production
      1. Genry
        Genry 16 August 2013 17: 03 New
        +3
        Almost any production involved conversion in wartime.
        By the way, cigarettes and cigarettes have a caliber of 7,62.
        1. Poppy
          Poppy 16 August 2013 17: 22 New
          +4
          and thin cigarettes 5,45 wassat
        2. dustycat
          dustycat 16 August 2013 19: 47 New
          0
          But in reality, everything is simpler.
          76,2 mm is 3,0 inches. And ... that's it.

          A real inventor must think clearly and simply.
          Ammunition should also be easy to manufacture.
          Up to artisanal production.
          Krupp's bullet on the knee can be done simply.
          And according to the patent 24844416RU ... A file is very difficult and long.
          1. VI Kacheev
            VI Kacheev 17 August 2013 05: 08 New
            +2
            Hello dustycat.
            Krupp's bullet on the knee can be done simply.
            Probably, in accordance with your ideas about technology, the Krupp bullet can be done “on the knee”. However, they prefer to produce them using mass production technology and non-machine tools, as well as in peacetime - in the hundreds of millions of pieces. When there is a war, many knees will need to be in the trenches - checked by our ancestors in the Great Patriotic War.
            And according to the patent 24844416RU ... A file is very difficult and long.
            A file is not required, there are modern high-performance technologies, for example, cross-wedge rolling technology. To increase the level of technical knowledge, see the link: http://vpk.name/news/2013-04-16
            1. VI Kacheev
              VI Kacheev 17 August 2013 05: 27 New
              0
              To blame - a mistake - you should read "... and on machines, ...
        3. alex86
          alex86 20 August 2013 20: 05 New
          0
          And Soviet pasta 7,62, and then someone wrote that round trays are like 406 mm, well, and pipes 159 mm outer - 152 inner wink
  3. gusev_sa
    gusev_sa 16 August 2013 19: 22 New
    +3
    1. "In the Land of Soviets, to create your own military-industrial complex, there is practically no intellectual and technical estate - who was shot during the fratricidal Civil War, who was expelled after its end" is crap, grandfather does not know that the overwhelming technical intelligentsia remained in Russia and these people made a huge contribution to Stalin's industrialization.
    On June 2.22, 1941, the tanks did not fire a single shot since there was no ammunition. Where the hell is that from? What a freak.
    The owners of the site have nothing to publish or what?
    1. VI Kacheev
      VI Kacheev 17 August 2013 05: 23 New
      +1
      Hello, gusev_sa. Mindfulness is clearly a property not of your character. I wrote "... a lot of military equipment, in particular tanks, couldn’t fire even one shot ..." Your quote: "... that the overwhelming technical intelligentsia remained in Russia and these people made a huge contribution to Stalin's industrialization." Why did the Government of the Soviet Union need to invite German engineers? There is nowhere to put their engineers, and the country's leadership, headed by I.V. Stalin, invites the German - here are the pests - according to your understanding ?! Cartridge and shell "hunger" appeared in 1914. About that war I.V. Stalin did not know from books written by "historians"! Therefore, he paid more than a million US dollars, of those times, for the ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES of that time.
  4. 89135506885
    89135506885 21 August 2013 03: 24 New
    0
    They didn’t forget about the tankers.
  5. svp67
    svp67 24 August 2013 12: 54 New
    0
    “... First of all, first of all ...” - to be a shell! Well, and the gun? Gun, brother, to be later!