Military Review

How many icebreakers do Russia need?

If we talk about the development of the transport system of Russia in the Arctic, first of all we are talking about the development of the Northern Sea Route (NSR), as a single national transport highway. Its development involves sustainable and safe work in the interests of the national and regional economies, international, state and transit transport, as well as the northern export of goods. Provide a solution to these problems without using a modern icebreaker fleet hardly possible. The Russian Arctic fleet needs systemic modernization, which implies an increase in the share of promising icebreakers, as well as the construction of universal or dual-purpose vehicles that are most effective in the changing modern Arctic.

It is also necessary to build low-and medium-tonnage ships of the "river-sea" class, vessels for the transport of transit container cargo, ice-class tankers, dry-cargo ships, research vessels, etc. Ensuring safe navigation in the Arctic involves the construction of a radically updated icebreaking fleet , construction of ice and reinforced ice class vessels, special double-hulled tankers with additional emergency supplies.

Further development of the NSR involves the creation of the Northern Transport Corridor (STK), which would be available year-round. The JCC would act as a national trans-arctic maritime line stretching from Murmansk to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. Indicative for identifying trends in the development of shipping in the Arctic can be called navigation 2011 year. This navigation demonstrated that navigation of ships of various purposes along the Northern Sea Route, for example, from Murmansk to various ports of Southeast Asia, reduces the time of cargo delivery from 7 to 22 days compared to sailing through the Suez Canal. Naturally, with appropriate security.

How many icebreakers do Russia need?

Nowadays, Russia is in an advantageous position compared to all other applicants who would like to take advantage of the wealth of the Arctic. In addition to 6 atomic icebreakers (no country in the world has an atomic icebreaking fleet), Russia still has about 20 diesel-powered icebreakers. For comparison, Denmark has 4 icebreaker, Norway has 1, USA has 3, more icebreakers Canada has 2 heavy icebreaker and more than a dozen small class icebreakers. However, extensive experience in high latitudes and the presence of an atomic icebreaking fleet provide Russia with an undoubted advantage.

The only nuclear-powered icebreakers in the world are currently located at the piers on the outskirts of Murmansk, in the summer they do not have much work. Rarely they make tourist flights to the Pole, but serious work has not yet begun for them. The Russian nuclear icebreaking fleet is a 4 heavy icebreaker 75 000 HP. class "Arctic", another 2 icebreaker power 40 000 HP class "Taimyr" and one atomic lighter icebreaker class.

The analysis carried out by specialists suggests that transit shipments of cargo via the NSR may increase to 2015-3 mln. Tons already by 4, which will require 100 ice entries per year. By the 2019-2020 years, transit traffic on this route will increase to 5 million tons per year, which in turn will require an increase in the number of ice routes to 170-180. By 2030, the need for icebreaking assistance will be more than 200 per year. The year-round route operation, as well as port service, will be able to reliably provide 5-6 atomic icebreakers with a capacity of 60-110 MW, 6-8 non-atomic icebreakers with a capacity of 25-30 MW and 8-10 with non-atomic icebreakers with 16-18 MW. However, their workload will not exceed 70%.

Icebreakers "Taimyr" and "Vaigach"

Unfortunately, it is already clear that the objective growth of annual transit traffic on the NSR may be significantly limited by the lack of the necessary number of modern icebreakers from Russia. Their construction becomes the most important problem of the entire future development of the transport system in the Arctic. Taking into account the most preferable scenario for the development of the Arctic to 2030, a radical modernization of the NSR is assumed with a simultaneous increase in freight traffic on its routes to 30 – 35 mln. Tons each year. Such a significant increase in cargo traffic along the Arctic routes should be the basis of the forecast for the further development of the Russian icebreaking and special Arctic fleet. But it should also be borne in mind that the demand for icebreakers will largely depend on whether the Northern Sea Route becomes attractive to foreign shipping companies.

Icebreaking fleet of Russia

140 years stories The icebreaking fleet has changed quite a lot in the design of these vessels, most of all over the years their capacity has increased. So if the engine power of one of the first Yermak icebreakers was 9,5 thousand hp, the diesel-electric icebreaker “Moscow”, which went out to sea only half a century later, developed power in the 22 thousand hp, and atomic icebreakers of the Taimyr class can develop power up to 50 thousand hp Due to the difficulties associated with their maritime profession, the power of propulsion systems of modern icebreakers on 1 tonnes of displacement is 6 times higher than that of similar in size displacement ocean liners. At the same time, even nuclear-powered icebreakers remained qualitatively the same as their predecessors - armored boxes, which are filled with huge “herds of horses”. Their job is to break through the ice-hole for the caravans of cargo ships and tankers following behind them; this principle of organizing ice transportation can be compared to the usual movement of barges behind the tugboat pulling them.

Today, Russia has the largest icebreaking fleet among all countries of the world. It includes 40 vessels of various purposes and classes. In addition, Russia is the only state that has its own atomic icebreaking fleet. In its composition today 6 icebreakers, 1 lighter carrier and 4 vessel technological service. Back in 1987, the SMP served 17 linear icebreakers, among which were 8 atomic ones, while their load level was no more than 30%.

For the icebreaking fleet of Russia is characterized by gradual aging, many ships almost exhausted their resources. Today, Russia has 6 nuclear icebreakers: "Russia", "50 years of Victory", "Yamal", "Soviet Union", "Vaigach" and "Taimyr". But experts are already sounding the alarm, the need to upgrade the Russian nuclear fleet is becoming more and more tangible, since without the participation of these giants it is simply impossible to master the Arctic spaces and retain the status of the Arctic power.

In the coming 5-7 years, the oldest nuclear-powered icebreakers should retire, after which only 2 of the newest ships, the Yamal, which was built in 1993, and 50 Years of Victory (2007) will remain. The icebreakers “Russia” (1985 year of construction), Taimyr (1988 year of construction) and “Soviet Union” (1989 year of construction) will have to go first to the docks. At the same time, Rosatom recalls that for the operation of the NSR in full measure, no less than 10 vessels are required. So far, existing icebreakers are coping with the organization of the necessary traffic intensity, but by 2020, the Northern Sea Route, with an increase in cargo turnover and retirement of nuclear-powered icebreakers, is at risk of being in an “ice break”.

It is not surprising that Russia is thinking about the further development of its own icebreaking fleet. A number of specialists call the creation of an icebreaker belonging to a new generation, which is being created as part of the 22220 project (LK-60YA), as a priority task. This icebreaker should be the most powerful of all currently existing nuclear icebreakers. It will have a hull width of 33 meters. Its main feature should be a variable draft. This will be its main advantage over its predecessors. He will be able to work both in the mouths of Siberian rivers and in the ocean, thanks to a special two-pack construction. This icebreaker will have 2 working draft: 10,5 and 8,5 meters. This function will provide the icebreaker high-speed ballast systems. The icebreaker can change its draft from the minimum to the maximum value in 4 hours.

Project icebreaker LC-XNUMHЯ

The progress of updating the icebreaking fleet

The construction of the national icebreaking fleet was planned in different years in a number of various federal targeted programs (FTP). The very first of them was the program “Revival of the Russian merchant fleet”, which was approved by the president of the country and was designed for 1993-2000 years. In June, 1996, this program was extended to the end of 2001. According to this program, the construction of 16 new icebreakers was planned, but none of them was built within the specified time frame.

This program has been replaced by the new Federal Target Program “Modernization of the transport system of Russia (2002 – 2010).” This program included a subprogram “Sea Transport”, within which a feasibility study for the construction of a new-generation icebreaking fleet was created to support the operation of the NSR. According to this program, up to 2015, it was planned to build and put into operation the 2 atomic icebreaker with a capacity of 55 – 60 MW, constructed according to the 22220 project (LC-60Я), the icebreakers were to receive a new-generation reactor facility.

For 2-3, before the construction of nuclear-powered icebreakers was completed, that is, approximately in 2012 – 2013, it was planned to put into operation the 2 diesel-electric icebreaker of the LC-25 type, as well as to start building the new-generation icebreakers. But this program was unfulfilled. Moreover, to date, not a single modern icebreaker with the required power has even been laid down at Russian shipyards or ordered abroad. Instead of diesel-electric icebreakers LC-25 with a power of 25 MW, 2008 of the icebreaker LC-2009 with a power of 2 MW, built according to the 18 project, was commissioned in 18 and 21900. Work on their construction was carried out in the framework of the changes made to the subprogramme by a decree of the Russian government of 31.05.2006. It is worth noting that LC-18 icebreakers are very well thought-out vessels, but they are not able to solve all the tasks of the linear icebreakers on the Arctic routes.

Icebreaker "Moscow" LC-18, pr. 21900

21 February 2008 of the year in Russia adopted a new Federal Target Program “Development of civilian marine technology for 2009 – 2016 years”. Subsequently, its timing was adjusted for 2010-2015 years. According to this FTP, it was planned to develop technical proposals for the creation of a linear atomic icebreaker with a capacity of up to 70 MW of a new generation, as well as an icebreaker leading 110 – 130 MW designed for year-round work on the Northern Sea Route.

This FTP also sets out an assessment of the technical feasibility and the creation of an organizational and technological project for the construction of high-powered nuclear icebreakers (150 – 200 MW). This program of building an icebreaking fleet of Russia on 2012 – 2014 allowed the launch of a universal nuclear-powered icebreaker and another 4 diesel-powered icebreaker with a capacity of 16 – 25 MW. In addition, the government plans to build 2020 nuclear icebreakers before the 3 of the year.

In the adopted “Strategy for the development of the shipbuilding industry for the period up to 2020 and for the future,” the scope of the planned construction of the icebreaking fleet was further expanded. The document, in particular, states that in order to solve the forecasted tasks for the period up to 2030 of the year on transportation of hydrocarbons on the continental shelf, our country will need 90 specialized transport vessels of the Arctic navigation with a total deadweight of about 4's millions of tons and the fleet serving them in 140 units. In addition, it is necessary to build 10 – 12 new icebreakers (in conjunction with icebreakers of various classes and types that will provide sea transport, their overall need is estimated at more than 40 units).

It should be emphasized that the construction volumes of the icebreaking fleet have been determined, but at the moment Russian shipbuilding companies have almost not started implementing such ambitious and relevant plans for Russia. The first nuclear-powered icebreaker LK-XNUMHA I was laid at the Baltic Shipyard at the end of 60, the start of its operation is planned for 2012. With such a pace of renewal of the icebreaker fleet by this time, the Russian SMP may be facing a real threat of an “ice break”.

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  1. SmacXnumx
    SmacXnumx 13 August 2013 09: 47 New
    Great article. Icebreakers should be as large as possible and not only diesel but also atomic. In the Arctic, in the Baltic and why the hell is not joking in Antarctica.
    1. Aryan
      Aryan 13 August 2013 12: 45 New
      about the feat of the icebreaker Sibiryakov do not forget
    2. old man54
      old man54 13 August 2013 16: 43 New
      Quote: Smac111
      Icebreakers should be as large as possible and not only diesel but also atomic. In the Arctic, in the Baltic

      on the Baltic, why are they ??? Is there a difficult ice situation? Pack ice of 6 months of the year, or what else?
      1. Vanya Ivanov
        Vanya Ivanov 13 August 2013 19: 09 New
        old man54
        to ensure year-round operation of the ports of St. Petersburg and navigation in the Gulf of Finland. The situation is such that for a couple of years from the north, nuclear powered ships have been chasing local icebreakers to help.
        1. old man54
          old man54 13 August 2013 19: 35 New
          Quote: Vanya Ivanov
          and the situation is such that for a couple of years from the north, nuclear powered ships have been chasing local icebreakers to help.

          nuclear-powered icebreakers drive into the Gulf of Finland ?? laughing What kind of nonsense is that ?! lol Maybe all the same diesel-electric "drive" and not in "help local icebreakers" but because all the locals have already been looted and aged for a long time, unsuitable for operation for its intended purpose! What does the ALK do in the Gulf of Finland then? There is ice conditions, with ice more than half measure, from the strength of 2,5 of the month! That's it, that its specifically for "Soviet horseradish mode" icebreakers, small-sitting, built specifically for the Gulf of Finland, were destroyed (like a raid, there’s no need for more), but we are not building new ones! And now around Scandinavia and run like half-fools!
          1. Vanya Ivanov
            Vanya Ivanov 13 August 2013 20: 28 New
            To say that I’ve seen it myself, I understand it is useless? Just type in the search engine “atomic icebreakers in the Gulf of Finland” and take the word “nonsense” backward. the older Finnish “tor” and “kara”, leased from Estonia, also work.
            1. old man54
              old man54 14 August 2013 01: 14 New
              Quote: Vanya Ivanov
              to talk about what they say he saw, I understand is useless?

              no, why such bias? laughing I believe ... then!
              Quote: Vanya Ivanov
              take the word "delirium" back

              well, I’m taking it, don’t worry you like that! But I leave the word "Nonsense", but no longer addressed to you, but to the leadership of the country, since the use of self-propelled guns in "your terribly cold scalding Fins Bay otherwise difficult to characterize! Do not tell me, but what about the ships in Leningrad under the USSR that took place in the winter, huh? Or then the winters were not winters? Or navigation in the winter in the Leningrad port ceased, because without atomic icebreakers, is it anyway ?! lol Kremlin power is going crazy, and you indulge her, I'm sorry!
              I was in Arkitek a lot, I saw real pack ice, I went around the NSR, not everything is true, but not the point! And it’s not clear to me, siroma, what terrible ice conditions formed in Finsokm, since they began to attract the nuclear fleet ?? bully hi
    3. iOfficer
      iOfficer 13 August 2013 19: 47 New
      Quote: Smac111
      Great article. Icebreakers should be as large as possible and not only diesel but also atomic. In the Arctic, in the Baltic and why the hell is not joking in Antarctica.

      I agree. Pride for our icebreaker fleet is bursting smile
    4. Retx
      Retx 13 August 2013 20: 04 New
      so for reference ...
      In total, there are 62 icebreakers of all classes in the Russian Federation.
    5. Civil
      Civil 13 August 2013 20: 41 New
      og, we build on common state money, commerce is used, and then for the pennies the Chinese ?! What's the point?!
      1. Retx
        Retx 13 August 2013 21: 05 New
        Control of trade routes. The prospects are very bright if we think of Asia as the NSR. The British are already getting nervous slowly.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 16 August 2013 01: 25 New
          Quote: RETX
          Control of trade routes. The prospects are very bright if we think of Asia as the NSR. The British are already getting nervous slowly

          The development of the resources of the Far North is a task of national importance. It is in the North that there are innumerable riches of the mineral pantry (Bins) of the Motherland. Naturally, they must be reliably protected. For this, ships of a special ice class, polar aviation, and much more are needed (ice reconnaissance, navigation and hydro-meteorological support for wiring ships).
          Already there are ideas to replace the ASU in these latitudes with aviation offshore platforms, which is more economical and more promising than coastal airfields, the coordinates of which are well known to everyone. Naturally, they will be with nuclear power plants, which will increase their autonomy and habitability in the polar latitudes.
          Russia has the largest nuclear icebreaker fleet of 6 units. But in 2013. it is planned to lay and in 2015 take a super icebreaker with a length of the order of 170 m, a width of 34 m ("50 Years of Victory" - 159 m and 30 m, respectively). The new generation RITM-200 power plant was developed by the Afrikantov Design Bureau specifically for this icebreaker. Each of the two reactors of the installation has a capacity of 170 MW - more than the capacity of the KLT installation used in modern nuclear icebreakers (140 – 150 MW). Icebreakers have weapons plans in case of war. Personally, I saw 2 “hemp” under the wasp. There are places for installing art systems. I think now you can install something more modern, such as Daggers or Chestnuts.
          When solving the problem of protecting the Arctic, it passes into the plane of the 12-mile zone of the water supply and the 200-mile (maximum - 322km) economic. Our oceanologists, led by Chilingarov, had to prove that the continental shelf belongs, according to the law of the sea, to Russia and stretches for 3,5 thousand km from the water edge. States disagree with this. They believe that the Northern Sea Route should belong to the whole of humanity, and not only to Russia, as it has developed historically. Conflict of interest is evident. Further, the UN and clients of the United States will be connected to declare our national treasure - SevMorPut - a Broadway for Mr. Traders, etc.
          So the confrontation is already flowing into the Arctic latitudes. Canada, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland and China are also going to become active players here! If we don’t want to lose our influence at our side, we will have to exert ourselves. Icebreakers, of course, nuclear ones, need to be built.
          1. old man54
            old man54 16 August 2013 20: 35 New
            Quote: BoA KAA
            The development of the resources of the Far North is a task of national importance.

            I agree with you, Alexander! But here is my opinion that since the 91 of the year, all the rights of Russia have somehow done everything in order to weaken their positions in the Arctic.
            Quote: BoA KAA
            Already there are ideas to replace the ASU in these latitudes with aviation offshore platforms, which is more economical and more promising than coastal airfields, the coordinates of which are well known to everyone.

            I’m certainly not a pro like you, but I don’t agree with this point of view and put my 5 cents here! bully
            That the UAW at the NSR, that these “airborne offshore platforms” seem to me nothing more than an unhealthy, not so powerful military budget of the Russian Federation for wasted expenditures that are advantageous in the first line of the military-industrial complex (shipbuilding). On large projects, it’s easy to swipe money, but no one wants to look into a strategic prospect. Well, SAW, then it should be specifically ice class, so that you could go after the atomic icebreaker, agree? This in its turn will cause a large increase in displacement, and it will be a hygiene even more than Admiral Kuznetsov. The same song with the platform, + it will be necessary to constantly provide kerosene for the aircraft. Putting various air defense systems on it is not a problem, it’s right and normal, but how to implement PLO protection ?? Especially the ice will rise? Any multipurpose submarine will be suitable for a long time and will do everything that it wants with it with a torpedo! RBU-6000 do not apply against it, ice! PLO helicopters are also helpless ... And in general, it’s not clear how to drag this giant barge-airfield along the NSR in winter!
            The same thing, even worse, with the SAW in the Arctic, when the ice will already rise for the winter. Yes, he will be able to walk along the NSR for a super-icebreaker, perhaps even year-round, but for the organization of flights on it he needs a move no less than average and anti-wind courses for takeoff / landing of an aircraft! Operational maneuvering in ice porridge in the ice-hole for icebreaker? I am smiling. lol A quick change of course during the wind during a DB for takeoff of an aircraft in severe ice conditions? lol The speed of the caravan during its passage through the moshny ice field You probably know? And this despite the fact that ice has been standing on the NSR for at least 5 months of the year (from early October to early May), and in some places and 8 months everything has been ice-packed (Kara Strait, straits north of Taimyr). How to fight off those nuclear submarines from under the pack ice field of attacking ABs in the Arctic? The caravan with the icebreaker will be heard oh how far, but the nuclear submarine ... besides, you won’t bullet a Blizzard / Medvedka or a torpedo with an AV, you can only hope for underwater protection of your nuclear submarine.
          2. old man54
            old man54 16 August 2013 20: 50 New
            Conclusion: there is nothing better than a branched ground-based aerodrome network, especially since there is no sinking! good Even in the USSR, there was a lot of GDP there, now almost everything has been stolen, but if you want, you need to reanimate and build new ones, before it's too late. Was there an airfield on Novaya Zemlya? Was! There is in Dikson, in the Olenek Bay (I don’t remember our point), in Tiksi, in Pevek there! It is possible to build several jump and base airfields in the north of the Taimyr Peninsula in the case of "Ch" (from there even the states can be reached on the Su-34, for example laughing) We have a lot of islands in the Kara Sea, in the Laptev Sea, in the East Siberian! All of them can and should be used. The simultaneous construction of an a / b in those latitudes is most likely not cheaper than the same UAV, but this is a long-term capital investment in the airfield network, unlike SAV and these non-self-propelled barges (40 / 50 years and they will be cut into scrap)! But on the other hand, these runways can be used for the development of the north in general: civil settlements and villages will begin to grow around them, life will boil! Can they be used for its oil development, or not? And towed ice class barges are a purely military target of dubious military effectiveness! request
            Quote: BoA KAA
            Icebreakers have weapons plans in case of war. Personally, I saw 2 “hemp” under the wasp. There are places for installing art systems.

            It’s understandable, it’s wonderful, but just why the icebreaker artillery system, I do not understand? Well, the maximum support is to land the MP on shore in winter, but this is already the case with its occupation by the enemy! request Here are the systems of Objective and zonal air defense on it - I understand, a worthwhile thing !! This is mandatory because The first enemy of NK in the Arctic will be LA! But here is how he will fight with the nuclear submarines again, when the ice is all around, I don’t understand. But she playfully with him, taking into account his noise, precipitation below the ice field, etc. Hence the conclusion is a dubious undertaking!
            Quote: BoA KAA
            Personally saw 2 "hemp" under the wasp "Wasp"

            I do not understand YOU? It seems like the Osa-m air defense system has under-deck storage of missiles and PU itself, why then "hemp? Can it still be" hemp "for installing the Dagger? Is the dagger also an under-deck system ...
            In general, I really liked the way you wrote the koment, it is immediately clear that you are a Soul fan for the North and love it! From me "+" of course! hi
  2. Garrin
    Garrin 13 August 2013 10: 09 New
    How many icebreakers do Russia need?

    The bigger, the better. Good article and pictures are very beautiful. Thanks to the author!
    1. old man54
      old man54 13 August 2013 16: 47 New
      Quote: Garrin
      How many icebreakers do Russia need?

      The bigger, the better.

      how else? 1000 pieces or something, if MCCP pulls? It is necessary as much as is necessary for the sustainable provision of both summer navigation on the NSR and winter navigation, according to the forecast for traffic volumes and the protection of their interests in the Arctic. hi
  3. Refund_SSSR
    Refund_SSSR 13 August 2013 10: 14 New
    If we compare the country with a ship or ship, then Russia is an icebreaker in my associations.
    1. old man54
      old man54 13 August 2013 16: 48 New
      good !! I agree! hi
    2. Retx
      Retx 13 August 2013 20: 11 New
      hi SMP is our point.
  4. kirpich
    kirpich 13 August 2013 10: 43 New
    Ehhh ...., it would be nice if the atomic (civilian) fleet did not stand against the wall.
    Here in the article modestly designated- (and one atomic lighter carrier of the icebreaking class). This is none other than the Sevmorput lighter. The only lighter carrier at that time that did not need icebreaking assistance in the Northern and Southern latitudes. But when he came to Vladivostok in 1988 (well, after the hype with Chernobyl), they Banned him !!! embark on an internal raid.
    ... AND HE stood in the outer raid, NEW, STRONG, and rejected. Now he stands in Murmansk, surviving his fate.
    And we need a lot of icebreakers. In the Arctic, in Antarctica, in the Baltic, and on the rivers too.
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 13 August 2013 11: 35 New
      This year, about 400 vessels applied for passage along the Northern Sea Route. China said that deliveries to Europe will go through the NSR.
  5. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 13 August 2013 11: 12 New
    How many?... More than a strange question, especially since its answer lies for us, for Russia, literally on the surface. And it consists in the following ...
    So much so that they can provide year-round navigation through the NSR. Provide as it was during the Soviet Union. Moreover, the Arctic is now acquiring great strategic and geopolitical significance. And Russia should be “in the North” not just “the first among equals”, but a priori the “strongest player”. But this requires not only icebreakers and a fleet of reinforced ice class transport ships, but also warships based on icebreakers ...
  6. anfreezer
    anfreezer 13 August 2013 11: 21 New
    Well, in the automotive industry, in the civilian aircraft industry .. well, where are we and how are we, and why are we slowing down there !? For all the time, three federal target programs "gave birth" to two icebreakers, and even those laid down in the Union (Yamal-v86, 50 years-v89). What kind of future way to "heroically overcome difficulties" instead of doing everything clearly and a plan? The question is purely rhetorical. what
  7. svp67
    svp67 13 August 2013 11: 30 New
    How many icebreakers do Russia need?
    Exactly so that we would not depend on anyone on this issue ... And the fact that they are needed is simply necessary for our country - this is undeniable.
  8. RMRS
    RMRS 13 August 2013 14: 00 New
    And you still need to restore the infrastructure in the north, and then the path is profitable - but it is very far from commercialization to the full extent, how many conferences I personally attended on the development of the North Sea, smart things say everywhere, but words differ from deeds, the network is based and the supply needs to be restored in the north, so that shipowners leave money there, and not just for the passage. The Navy is a huge business, but we are more often used to stealing (From here everyone sees the global problem and need, and the curious little things without which they are nowhere to be missed forever .Although now many of our employees go to the construction of ships with ice classes - this is nice, because we have vast experience in operation)
  9. The comment was deleted.
    DEMENTIY 13 August 2013 14: 58 New
    How many icebreakers do Russia need?

    This is known to Messrs. Celsius and Fahrenheit! ;)
  11. Zomanus
    Zomanus 13 August 2013 15: 13 New
    Yes dofiga need to build and rebuild. Only not with a motor-vehicle of emergency and assault, but with an eye to further modernization and with maximum return. And for some reason, the 10-20 vertical bars for launching the KR are asking for icebreakers.))
  12. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 13 August 2013 15: 18 New
    How many icebreakers do Russia need?
  13. i_vam_ne_hvoratj
    i_vam_ne_hvoratj 13 August 2013 16: 02 New
    Icebreakers need as much as necessary, but a little more. The main thing is to decide what we want and what is needed for this. So what do we want to get ??? Transit passage of vessels from the Pacific basin to the Atlantic basin, as an alternative to Suezu and Panama - bullshit. The economic effect of two weeks' virtual time savings, voiced by COSCO - pure voluntarism. Has anyone assessed the risks of possible time losses when moving in solid ice, the risks of damage or loss of the vessel, the cost of icebreaking support, reimbursement of the costs of maintaining the infrastructure ??? I’ll try to clarify ... Historically, the Northern Sea Route was created and developed as one of the components of the economic security of Russia and the USSR. Firstly, the north developed dynamically as a raw material base, and secondly, it is illogical in the twentieth century to leave most of the country's territory behind the fence of civilization. How was it in the seventies and eighties of the last century? A balanced icebreaking and transport fleet, the infrastructure of the Northern Sea Route developed for that time, including hydrological, meteorological and navigation support. High-class specialists cannot be listed (Vitko, Vasiliev, Abonosimov, Kholodenko - this is only part of the tip of that iceberg.) What is now - ruin. You can build a monster of hundreds of megawatts, plant the head of the expedition Chelingarov and send cut the Arctic into sectors or ride tourists to the North Pole. Or you can start all over again ... Decide on what we want to get and what we need to do for this ... Including to raise the icebreaking elite (in my time I could not imagine the situation with the Commonwealth). Sorry amateur for the confusion ... Had to participate ...
    1. old man54
      old man54 13 August 2013 16: 55 New
      Quote: i_vam_ne_hvoratj
      To decide what we want to get and what we need to do for this ... Including to raise the icebreaking elite (in my time, I could not imagine the situation with the Commonwealth Union). Sorry amateur for the confusion ... Had to participate

      one of the few weighted and thoughtful comments on the branch! good I agree with you in many ways!
  14. old man54
    old man54 13 August 2013 17: 14 New
    during the time of the Great USSR, he didn’t let anyone go to his north or to the NSR! Someone will say wrongly done? Bullshit !!! Try to climb to develop the black sea, shelf, or the same Gulf of Mexico ?? Do you know what will start from the democratizers of the planet ??? laughing so there you go!
    The USSR’s SMP was used purely in its interests, notwithstanding the fact that even then many in the world were yelling out why the Russians use the SMP alone. Moreover, under the USSR, the state border passed in the meridian ocean and we had a huge ocean sector in the form of our territorial waters. In the west, the sector went from the land border on the Kola Peninsula, and in the east from the median line of the Berengov Strait. And the international community recognized these boundaries, many did not like it very much, groaned and grumbled, but recognized !! Now, during the reign of the modern Kremlin gang, we have abolished these old borders, agreed with the condition imposed on us by the West about the 12 mile zone and the point of warp. As a result of this, there has been talk for several years already about the opening of the NSR for foreigners, the opening of locations and the navigation features of the Northern Sea Route. And in this epoch of general greed and money-grubbing from fools from the naval structures and ministries of Russia, again, once again, eyes sparkled and drooled from dreams of their personal financial well-being, kickbacks and trivial theft in case of intensive shipping on the NSR. But the truth is that the West is once again fooling around these nonsense, because it is precisely the pilotage of merchant ships on the NSR of hopelessness, it is more convenient for them to navigate the old rolled routes, but using the openness of our north for navigation and its shelf for exploration, first of all the turn of discovering hydrocarbon deposits is exactly what he is up to. But fools and grabbers in power, this is just one of the main ills in Russia! hi
  15. Armata
    Armata 13 August 2013 19: 42 New
    Opening the NSR for foreign countries is a threat to security and a betrayal of national interests!
  16. scorpiosys
    scorpiosys 13 August 2013 21: 46 New
    One and the same in Moscow.
    1. old man54
      old man54 13 August 2013 22: 56 New
      go to Chitsy ponds? laughing
  17. Megatron
    Megatron 15 August 2013 00: 31 New
    Nuclear lighter carrier SevMor Let seemingly written off already unfortunately ....
  18. ed24
    ed24 1 October 2014 22: 26 New