White Terror in Russia

We went to power to hang, but we had to hang in order to come to power

The stream of articles and notes about the "good Father-father", the noble white movement and the red ghouls opposing them are not impoverished. I'm not going to speak for one or the other side. Just give the facts. Just the bare facts, taken from public sources, and nothing more. Tsar Nicholas II, who renounced the throne, was arrested by 2 March 1917, General Mikhail Alekseev, the head of his staff. Tsaritsa and the family of Nicholas II were arrested on March 7 by General Lavr Kornilov, commander of the Petrograd Military Institution. Yes, yes, those very future heroes of the white movement ...

The government of Lenin, who assumed responsibility for the country in November-17, offered the Romanov family a visit to their relatives — to London, but the British royal family REFUSED them in permission to move to England.

The overthrow of the king was greeted by all of Russia. “Even close relatives of Nicholas fastened red bows to the chest,” writes historian Heinrich Joffe. Grand Duke Michael, to whom Nicholas had intended to transfer the crown, refused the throne. The Russian Orthodox Church, having committed an oath to the church on oath of allegiance, welcomed the news of the denial of the king.

Russian officer. 57% was supported by the white movement, of which 14 thousands later switched to red. 43% (75 thousand people) - immediately went for the Reds, that is, ultimately - more than half of the officers supported the Soviet power.

For the first several months after the October uprising in Petrograd and Moscow, it was not for nothing that they were called “the triumphal march of the Soviet power”. From 84 provincial and other major cities only in 15, it was established as a result of armed struggle. “At the end of November, in all the cities of the Volga region, the Urals and Siberia, the power of the Provisional Government no longer existed. She passed almost without any resistance into the hands of the Bolsheviks, everywhere Soviets were formed, ”says Major General Ivan Akulinin in his memoirs“ The Orenburg Cossack army in the fight against the Bolsheviks 1917-1920 ”. “Just at this time,” he writes further, “front-line units — shelves and batteries — arrived at the Army from the Austro-Hungarian and Caucasian fronts, but it turned out to be absolutely impossible to count on their help: they didn’t want to hear about the armed struggle against the Bolsheviks ".

Russian officers were divided in their sympathies ...

How, under such circumstances, Soviet Russia suddenly found itself in the ring of fronts? But how: from the end of February - the beginning of March 1918, the imperialist powers of both coalitions fighting in world war launched a massive armed invasion of our territory.

18 February 1918, German and Austro-Hungarian forces (around 50 divisions) launched an offensive from the Baltic to the Black Sea. For two weeks they occupied huge spaces.

3 March 1918 was signed the Brest Peace, but the Germans did not stop. Taking advantage of the agreement with the Central Council (by then already firmly established in Germany), they continued their offensive in Ukraine, March 1 overthrew the Soviet power in Kiev and moved further east and south to Kharkov, Poltava, Yekaterinoslav, Nikolaev, Kherson and Odessa .

On March 5, German troops under the command of Major General von der Goltz invaded Finland, where they soon overthrew the Finnish Soviet government. April 18 German troops invaded the Crimea, and April 30 captured Sevastopol.

By mid-June, more than 15 thousand German troops with aviation and artillery was in Transcaucasia, including 10 thousand people in Poti and 5 thousand in Tiflis (Tbilisi).

Turkish troops operated in the Caucasus from mid-February.

9 March 1918, the English landing force entered Murmansk under the pretext ... of the need to protect military warehouses from the Germans.

April 5 Japanese troops landed in Vladivostok, but under the pretext of ... protecting Japanese citizens "from banditry" in this city.

May 25 - the performance of the Czechoslovak Corps, which echelons were between Penza and Vladivostok.

It is necessary to take into account that the “whites” (generals Alekseev, Kornilov, Anton Denikin, Peter Wrangel, Admiral Alexander Kolchak), who played their part in overthrowing the tsar, repudiated the oath of the Russian Empire, but did not accept the new power, starting the struggle for their own rule in Russia.

Landing Entente in Arkhangelsk, August 1918 of the year

In the south of Russia, where "Russian liberation forces" acted mainly, the situation was veiled by the Russian form of the "White Movement". Ataman "Don troops" Peter Krasnov, when he was shown the "German orientation" and set as an example of "volunteers" Denikin, replied: "Yes, yes, gentlemen! The volunteer army is pure and infallible.

But this is me, the Don chieftain, with my dirty hands I take German shells and cartridges, wash them in the waves of the quiet Don and transfer them to the Volunteer Army in neat ways! The whole shame of this business lies with me! ”

Kolchak Alexander Vasilievich, the beloved "romantic hero" of the modern "intelligentsia." Kolchak, breaking the oath of the Russian Empire, the first on the Black Sea navy swore allegiance to the Provisional Government. Upon learning of the October Revolution, he handed the British Ambassador a request for admission to the English army. The Ambassador, after consultations with London, handed Kolchak direction to the Mesopotamian Front. On the way there, in Singapore, he was overtaken by the telegram of the Russian envoy to China, Nikolai Kudashev, who invited him to Manchuria to form Russian military units.

Killed Bolshevik

So, by August 1918, the armed forces of the RSFSR were completely or almost completely opposed by foreign troops. “It would be a mistake to think that throughout this year we fought on the fronts for the cause of the Russians hostile to the Bolsheviks. On the contrary, the Russian White Guards fought for OUR business, ”Winston Churchill wrote later.

White liberators or murderers and robbers? Doctor historical Heinrich Ioffe in the journal "Science and Life" No. 12 for 2004 - and this magazine has managed to be noted for its ardent anti-Sovietism in recent years - in an article about Denikin he writes: , robberies, terrible Jewish pogroms ... ".

About the atrocities of the troops of Kolchak are legends. The number of people killed and tortured in Kolchak dungeons did not give in to counting. Only in Yekaterinburg province, about 25 thousands of people were shot.
“In Eastern Siberia, horrible murders were committed, but they were not committed by the Bolsheviks, as I usually thought I would not be mistaken if I say,” the American general William Sydney Grevs later admitted as an eyewitness to those events, “that for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were 100 people, killed by anti-Bolshevik elements. "

The “ideology” of the whites in this question was clearly expressed by General Kornilov:
“We went to power to hang, but we had to hang in order to come to power” ...

Americans and Scots guard the prisoners of the Red Army in Bereznik

The "allies" of the white movement - the British, French and other Japanese - brought everything: metal, coal, bread, machinery and equipment, engines and furs. They hijacked civilian steamboats and locomotives. Until October, only Germans exported 1918 52 thousand tons of grain and fodder, 34 thousand tons of sugar, 45 million eggs, 53 thousand horses and 39 thousand cattle from October to October XNUMX. There was a large-scale looting of Russia.

And about the atrocities (no less bloody and massive - no one argues) of the Red Army and the KGB in the writings of the democratic press. This text is intended solely to dispel the illusions of those who admire the romance and nobility of the “white knights of Russia”. There was dirt, blood and suffering. War and revolution cannot bring anything else ...

"The White Terror in Russia" is the name of the book by the famous historian, doctor of historical sciences Pavel Golub. The documents and materials of stone on stone collected in it do not leave from widely circulating in the media and publications on the historical theme of fiction and myths.

There was everything: from demonstrations of the power of the interventionists to execution by the Czechs of the Red Army

We begin with the allegations of cruelty and bloodthirstiness of the Bolsheviks, who, they say, at the slightest opportunity destroyed their political opponents. In fact, the leaders of the Bolshevik Party became firmly and uncompromisingly treat them as they learned the hard way about the need for decisive measures. But at the beginning, a certain credulity and even carelessness was manifested. After all, in just four months, October triumphantly marched from one region to another in a vast country, which was made possible thanks to the support of the Soviets' power by the overwhelming majority of the people. Hence the hope that her opponents themselves are aware of the obvious. Many leaders of the counter-revolution, as is evident from the documentary materials — generals Krasnov, Vladimir Marushevsky, Vasily Boldyrev, prominent political figure Vladimir Purishkevich, ministers of the Provisional Government Alexei Nikitin, Kuzma Gvozdev, Semyon Maslov, and many others — were released on fair word, although their hostility to the new government is not in doubt.

These gentlemen violated their word by taking an active part in the armed struggle, in organizing provocations and sabotage against their people. The generosity shown in relation to the obvious enemies of the Soviet power turned into thousands and thousands of additional victims, the sufferings and torments of hundreds of thousands of people who supported the revolutionary changes. And then the leaders of the Russian communists drew the inevitable conclusions - they knew how to learn from their mistakes ...

Tomsk citizens transfer the bodies of the executed participants of the anti-Kolchak uprising

Having come to power, the Bolsheviks did not ban the activities of their political opponents. They were not arrested, allowed to publish their newspapers and magazines, hold rallies and marches, etc. The people's socialists, Social Revolutionaries and Mensheviks continued their legal activities in the bodies of the new government, starting with the local Soviets and ending with the CEC. And again, only after the transition of these parties to an open armed struggle against the new system of their faction by the decree of the CEC from June 14 of 1918, were excluded from the Soviets. But even after that, the opposition parties continued to act legally. Only those organizations or persons who were convicted of specific subversive actions were punished.

Excavations of a grave in which the victims of Kolchak's repressions are buried March 1919, Tomsk, 1920 year

As shown in the book, it was the White Guards who represented the interests of the overthrown exploiting classes who initiated the civil war. And the impetus to it, as Denikin, one of the leaders of the white movement, admitted, was a mutiny of the Czechoslovak Corps, largely caused and supported by Russia's western “friends”. Without the help of these “friends,” the white-headed leaders, and then the White Guard generals, would never have achieved serious success. And the interventionists themselves actively participated both in operations against the Red Army and in terror against the insurgent people.

Kolchak's victims in Novosibirsk, 1919 year

The “civilized” Czechoslovak punishers dealt with their “Slav brothers” with fire and bayonet, literally erasing whole villages and villages from the face of the earth. In Yeniseisk alone, for example, over 700 people were shot for sympathizing with the Bolsheviks - almost a tenth of those living there. During the suppression of the uprising of prisoners of the Aleksandrovsky transfer prison in September 1919, the Czechs shot them point-blank with machine guns and cannons. The massacre lasted three days, at the hands of the executioners about 600 people died. And there are a great many such examples.

Bolsheviks killed by the Czechs near Vladivostok

By the way, foreign interventionists actively promoted the deployment of new concentration camps on Russian territory for those who opposed the occupation or sympathized with the Bolsheviks. Concentration camps began to be created by the Provisional Government. This is an indisputable fact, which is also silent about the revealers of the Communists' bloody atrocities. When French and British troops landed in Arkhangelsk and Murmansk, one of their leaders, General Puhl, on behalf of the Allies, solemnly promised to northerners to ensure “the triumph of law and justice” on the occupied territory. However, almost immediately after these words a concentration camp was organized on the island captured by the interventionists. Here are the testimonies of those who happened to be there: “Several people died every night, and their corpses remained in the barracks until the morning. And in the morning a French sergeant appeared and maliciously inquired: “How many Bolsheviks are kaput today?”. Of the percent 50 sharpened on Mudyug, people lost their lives, many went crazy ... ”.

American invader poses near the corpse of the murdered Bolshevik

After the withdrawal of the Anglo-French invaders, the power in the north of Russia passed into the hands of the White Guard General Yevgeny Miller. He not only continued, but also intensified repressions and terror, trying to stop the rapidly developing process of “Bolshevization of the masses”. Their most inhuman impersonation was the exiled convict prison in Iokanga, which one of the prisoners described as “the most brutal, sophisticated method of extermination of people by a slow, painful death”. Here are excerpts from the memories of those who miraculously survived in this hell: "The dead lay on the bunk with the living, and the living were no better than the dead: dirty, covered with scabs, ragged, alive, decaying, they presented a horrible picture."

Red Army prisoner at work, Arkhangelsk, 1919 year

By the time Iokangi was freed from whites, out of a thousand and a half prisoners, there were 576 people out of which 205 could no longer move.

The system of such concentration camps, as shown in the book, was deployed in Siberia and the Far East by Admiral Kolchak - perhaps the most cruel of all the White Guard rulers. They were created both on the basis of prisons, and in those camps of prisoners of war that were built by the Provisional Government. In more than 40 concentration camps, the regime drove almost a million (914178) people who rejected the restoration of the pre-revolutionary order. About 75, thousands of people who were languishing in white Siberia, should be added to this. More than 520 of thousands of prisoners, the regime hijacked the slave, almost unpaid work in enterprises and in agriculture.

However, neither in Solzhenitsyn's “GULAG Archipelago”, nor in the writings of his followers Alexander Yakovlev, Dmitry Volkogonov and others - not a word about this monstrous archipelago. Although the same Solzhenitsyn begins his "Archipelago" from the civil war, painting the "Red Terror". A classic example of a lie by simple default!

American Bolshevik Hunters

In the anti-Soviet literature on the civil war a lot is written about the “barges of death”, which, they say, were used by the Bolsheviks to crack down on the White Guard officers. The book of Pavel Golub cites facts and documents indicating that the “barges” and “death trains” began to be actively and massively used by the White Guards. When in the autumn of the 1918 of the year on the eastern front, they began to suffer defeat from the Red Army, to Siberia, and then “barges” and “death trains” with prisoners of prison and concentration camps reached the Far East.

When the “death trains” were in Primorye, they were visited by the American Red Cross. One of them, Buekeli, wrote in his diary: “Until the moment when we found this terrible caravan in Nikolsk, 800 passengers died of starvation, dirt and disease ... I saw corpses of people whose bodies were eaten away by parasites during their lifetime, until they died after months of daily excruciating torture from hunger, dirt, and cold. I swear to God, I do not exaggerate! ... In Siberia, horror and death at every step on such a scale that they would shake the hardest heart ... ".

Horror and death — that was what the White Guard generals carried to the people who rejected the pre-revolutionary regime. And this is not a nonfiction exaggeration. Kolchak himself frankly wrote about the “vertical of command” he created: “The activity of the heads of district militias, special forces, all kinds of commandants, and heads of individual detachments is a complete crime.” It would be good to reflect on these words to those who today admire the “patriotism” and “selflessness” of the white movement, which, in contrast to the Red Army, defended the interests of “Great Russia”.

Prisoners of the Red Army in Arkhangelsk

As far as the “red terror” is concerned, its dimensions were completely incomparable with white, and it was mostly of a reciprocal nature. This was recognized even by General Grevs, commander of the 10-thousandth American corps in Siberia.

And so it was not only in Eastern Siberia. So it was all over Russia.
However, the frank confessions of the American general by no means relieve him of the guilt for participating in the massacres of the people who rejected the pre-revolutionary order. The terror against him was carried out by the joint efforts of foreign interventionists and the White armies.

There were a total of more than a million invaders in Russia — 280 thousands of Austro-German bayonets and about 850 thousands of British, American, French and Japanese. The joint attempt of the White Guard armies and their foreign allies to make Russian “Thermidor” cost the Russian people, even according to incomplete data, very expensive: about 8 millions killed, tortured in concentration camps who died from wounds, hunger and epidemics. According to experts, the material losses of the country amounted to an astronomical figure - 50 billion gold rubles ...

Comments

[avia12005]

Civil war is a special operation of the British special services.

[Gomunkul]

Civil War

It was planned to organize about the same thing after the collapse of the USSR, and then the same scenario was planned for Russia. Our "partners" remember us.

[lelikas]

There was dirt, blood and suffering. They cannot bring anything else to war and revolution ... - The most normal phrase from the whole article, in fact, the number of victims of both terrors was comparable.
Let us recall the thousands of victims on both sides in the 888 war — which eventually came down to several hundred — and here, everyone is trying to show that the enemy is much worse than them.

[Remko]

Most likely German, remember who sponsored Lenin and why.

[erg]

For some reason everyone forgets that by the end of World War I, Germany itself was barely making ends meet. She simply did not have so much money to actively sponsor revolutions in Russia or elsewhere. The device of revolutions is expensive. To give small assistance to certain circles is yes. Do they have more money for more? Moreover, she herself was on the verge of a revolution. And she started it before the age of 17.

[vjhbc]

let's talk about money, imagine that you have a large family, the head of the family gives your child an uncle to give money to the street and tells him your father a mu-duck money does not know how to earn a mother and you don’t protect you all like ragged people go go to my house see how we live then you will come home banging your father and you will become the head of the family and you will live well mother and you will dress the brothers. and now the question is why you as a father didn’t find out where the child had extra money, why you let him go to your enemy’s family, how you raised him what is he smo raise a hand on you, and not only on you but on your brothers that began to protect you. WHO ARE YOU AFTER THIS

Quote: Remko

Most likely German, remember who sponsored Lenin and why.

[holler]

What does Germany have to do with it? Lenin lived in Switzerland, the Bolsheviks held congresses in London, and gold, after the revolution, tumbled over the ocean. Who paid for the revolution?

[crash]

From P. Khlebnikov's book "A Conversation with a Barbarian"
But not a conspiracy ruined tsarist Russia. The success of the revolution was laid long before 1917. Tsarist Russia fell apart by the most elementary stupidity. The educated part of society - and by 1917 this is about a quarter of the population - stopped supporting the king. Due to a lack of understanding of historical processes, because of the instability of their patriotism, because of the vague idea of ​​what the Russian Idea is, the overwhelming majority of educated Russia began to flirt with the revolutionary idea. The intelligentsia welcomed the overthrow of the king in 1917 and received what she requested, eventually remaining in the cold. Here is a striking example of human stupidity!
Even if the February or Bolshevik conspiracy had been uncovered, the revolution would still have been impossible to prevent. In addition, the Tsar’s Ministry of Internal Affairs knew about the Bolsheviks from the beginning of the century, and about the conspiracy of the February liberals — somewhere since 1915. But tsarist power could no longer resist the revolution. The educated people of Russia (fools) have long betrayed the monarchy, preferring a mysterious revolution to it. But when this intelligentsia was left without a homeland, then it grew wiser.
About the same thing happened in the 1990s, during the nightmarish Yeltsin era. How did a small group of people (just a few thousand people) manage to seize the power and wealth of the country and throw the Russian people into a landfill? It doesn’t matter that there was some kind of conspiracy between these people - a lot of secret agreements, a whole chain of minor conspiracies and mafia deals. The important thing is that in Russian society there was no force ready to defend itself, ready to stand up for people's (civilian) interests. Almost no one (except for some political activists) took responsibility for what was happening. Why intervene? It is not up to them to decide ... By then, the idea of ​​civic duty was already vicious, the idea of ​​morality was forgotten, all faith in a pious feat or good deed was lost. Instead of fighting spirit, the people reigned in cowardice and despondency. Thus, the field went to predators.

[wax]

A mossy lie, thoroughly studied by many historians on the basis of documents. Even Goebbels in his Germany did not find any arguments for her that would have been useful in a propaganda war with the Soviets.
Lenin and the Bolsheviks saved Russia from its dismemberment back in the 17-20 years of the last century by those powers that are indicated in the article.

[vjhbc]

damn .. how many special operations are possible and then we were ruled by complete degenerates, and now the main mistake of the Reds is that they were too kind and didn’t finish the job, didn’t cut all this rot to the end, it has grown again in 70 years and we have the same thing as with gangrene; if at least one rot molecule remains, then everything is already there or the whole organism will die or it will be necessary to cut it already alive and cut off a piece of a healthy organism

Quote: avia12005

Civil war is a special operation of the British special services.

[Starina_hank]

However, complete degenerates just from the reds appeared, and gangrene in Russia began with the reds. And the revolution in Russia and, as a result, the way out of the war is the strategic success of the German intelligence services!

[pavlo]

Let it be known to you, the tsar’s family-nits started the revolution themselves ...

[Skiff-2]

The German General Staff financed the Bolsheviks for the June uprising, but the October coup was financed by Yankel Schiff (American banker) through "Comrade" Sverdlov - the chairman of the Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies, from him the Soviet power went, and Lenin became the head of government, but if on the night of the coup he had not escaped from under house arrest and had not made his way to Smolny, the Soviet state would have had a completely different founder. Everything that happened to Russia in the 20th century and continues to happen is not only a conspiracy of external enemies based on internal enemies, but also a change of elites by the will of above and the construction of a Just Society - the Kingdom of Truth. The work continues because only the Russian people can accept this Truth itself and show the rest of the World. Because, like the Third Rome ...

[225chay]

Absolutely right. And yet, first the "Red Terror" began, and only then, in response to the atrocities and unpunished murders, did the "White"

[soldier's grandson]

were you there then?

[Rus86]

I hope Our descendants will be able to remember and pay what they deserve to our dermolibero friends to their neighbors. we should be prepared the ground for future achievements.
It’s stupid of course to live in the past, but you still need to know the lessons of history, it’s not worth stepping on one and the same rake
how does wisdom sound - who is your friend, I’ll say who are you ?.

[vyatom]

This article should be read by modern "writers" who simply choke on their works, describing the "savior of Russia" Kolchak, and cursing the Bolsheviks. Even in the film "Admiral" Kolchak in one of the Siberian cities meets only a small handful of industrialists and intelligentsia, who just looks vulgar.
The Chairman of the Revolutionary Council of Irkutsk is much more respected, because it shows the representative of the people - the working class, who will become the master of the Big Country.

[krpmlws]

I support that our sworn neighbors understand only the language of power. Our policy must inspire confidence in them that every dirty trick will inevitably justify retribution, so that all this pack will think seven times before plotting something against Russia.

[Starina_hank]

And then we ourselves remembered about the rake in the 90s, when the leadership licked their asses?

[Heruvim]

Judging by the nickname - your relatives?

[pinecone]

The government of Lenin, who assumed responsibility for the country in November-17, offered the Romanov family a visit to their relatives — to London, but the British royal family REFUSED them in permission to move to England.
Baseless statement. It is known that such an offer was made not by the Bolsheviks, but by the Provisional Government while the Romanov family was in Tsarskoye Selo.

[creak]

In the history of the civil war, not everything is as unambiguous as it seems to the author. While part of the officer corps went over to the side of the Reds, one of the most persistent and combat-ready formations of the Kochak army were the Izhevsk and Votkinka divisions, formed mainly from workers of the factories of the same name. In war, when a brother goes to a brother, a son to a father of whites and fluffy does not happen. For example, except for "Quiet Don" this era is very realistically reflected in the novel: "Russia Washed in Blood" by Artem Vesely.

[MAG]

Before the Reds entered Perm, 70% of the skilled workers at the Motovilikhinsky factory left with the Whites, so history is a double-edged sword. At first the Bolsheviks won and the Whites became bad, then the Communists lost and the opposite story began.

[Marat]

absolutely true. Here the author frankly exaggerates the humanism of the Soviet government. I imagine how Trotsky addresses the Romanovs with a similar proposal. Who shot the imperial family?

[wax]

Self-Dominating Villain!
You, I hate your throne,
Your death, the death of children
I see with cruel joy.

A.S. Pushkin, 1817

[erg]

Neither Lenin nor his entourage gave any indication of the execution of the tsar’s family. Perhaps there was talk of eliminating the king, but not in the whole family. In those days, the new local government was more independent of the center than later and sometimes came into confrontation with it. Often under the guise of Bolsheviks, bandits came to power, with whom they subsequently had to fight. In the memoirs of Konstantin Paustovsky you can find such an episode. Also in the decisions is a roar. the tribunals can be met with such a formulation - for what they called the Bolsheviks (in particular, in the decisions of the Dragoon regiment in which Rokosovsky then served. The regiment supported the Bolsheviks and was often used to fight gangs of deserters, etc.). It is clear that they did not immediately understand who is who. By the way, the same problem was in the white movement (read Brudberg’s memoirs, for example). The shooting of the royal family, the decision of the local authorities, and the center, in order to maintain unity, had to make a good face, with a bad game. Subsequently, the main initiator of the execution was not allowed to make a career, until the end of his life, his comrades despised him, calling him a murderer. Here is another interesting fact: at the time when Baron Wrangel commanded the white movement, his mother lived in Petrograd. And she was given the opportunity to leave, if I am not mistaken, to Finland. Moreover, with the assistance of the Cheka (there is such a version, but I can’t name the source, I forgot it). I wonder why the evil Bolsheviks did not use it? It is unlikely that they had no information about her, and her conspiracy was not so hot. The widow of Veronelli, and then only when the baron became commander in chief.

[Starina_hank]

However, together with the imperial family, all relatives were simultaneously shot: brothers, uncles. aunts, nephews, etc ... i.e. the operation was large-scale and planned. It is not clear why the servants and the doctor of the royal family were shot; in my opinion, the witnesses were removed.

[vjhbc]

shot for business one only did poorly secretly had to be publicly hanged

Quote: Marat

absolutely true. Here the author frankly exaggerates the humanism of the Soviet government. I imagine how Trotsky addresses the Romanovs with a similar proposal. Who shot the imperial family?

and as for the interim government, then look who was part of this government

[wax]

Indeed, the tsar “inherited from the Provisional Government” to the Bolsheviks already in Tobolsk, which, due to the outbreak of the Civil War, temporarily pushed the fate of the tsar and his family to the background.

Vladimir Solovyov— ... Lord Buchanan is for, and the government is not against, against is the king. George V, who said so many kind words about his friendship with Nicholas II, refused to accept him.

Leo Anninsky— Afraid of his socialists?

“And that too.” Now George V is accused of treason, they think that if Nicholas II took refuge in England, there would have been no Yekaterinburg execution ... Yes, you must take into account the situation then ...

- Where? In Russia?

- And in Russia, and in England, and in general in Europe. First, England was a military ally of the Provisional Government. Secondly, the general mood of the British was not at all so benevolent towards Russia to save the Russian autocrat. And thirdly, and this is the main thing: the mood of the Russians in the mass was just extremely radical. A huge number of grassroots organizations of various parties of the democratic wing literally bombarded the Provisional Government with letters and telegrams demanding to immediately and without any court put the king and his family at a loss ...
- ... In May 1917, the British government wrote about the impossibility of granting the royal family asylum as a "pro-German" one. In general, the question of Britain’s refusal to provide asylum to the family of Nicholas II to date is one of the most difficult.

[Humpty]

The sane person understands that the white leaders were traitors. The "noble" Kolchak, in Siberia, the ground under his feet was on fire from popular uprisings. The film "Admiral" is the same lie as the tricks of Mikhalkov.

[Starina_hank]

Read local history sites, there are recollections of both red and white, and the recollections of the participants. I got the impression that the Kolchak people mostly wielded ramrods, and the reds simply took away outside. In addition, the Reds had a bit more time, so they tried some and planted already at a later time.

[builder74]

Saying in Siberian villages: "How Kolchak passed." People's assessment!

[Anatole Klim]

Civil war is a terrible thing, there are no good and bad, right and wrong. Modern events are difficult to understand, for example, Egypt. Mursi is the legally elected president, ousted by the military. Civil war is on the verge and who is right there?

[OPTR]

There are doubts about "legally elected". After all, the resignation ("resignation"?) Of the last president took place after the turmoil. Now Mursi can reap the sown. And his successor will again be "legally elected".

[Letnab]

what today's liberals hope for, because if their convictions win, the above picture can be repeated

[Gomunkul]

what the current liberals hope

Current liberals, this is the fifth column in the country.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Letnab

because in case of victory of their beliefs

The current liberals are just as idealistic as the liberals of the past.

But the current neoliberals came to power in the early 90s, and power is still in their hands.

[rennim]

It's strange ... if the Soviet government is so "bad" how could it raise and mobilize such a country to fight both the invaders and internal enemies. Taking into account hunger and devastation, and in fact won. And this fact is indisputable.

[Starina_hank]

After a sip of freedom, White’s relationship with his people didn’t change, while Red’s freedom, equality, fraternity, plus a great bright future: LAND TO PEASANTS, FACTORY WORKERS! Of course, no one received anything, but then it worked. Then he backfired.

[Ravest]

Why not get it! all got everything !! Any worker knew that the profits from the plant. on which he works does not go into the pocket of the owner, private trader, but into the common boiler of the USSR and was distributed to social programs for the population, that is, the same worker !! free medicine ,, kindergarten apartments are all from there!

[Ravest]

The same thing with the land that the peasants received !! so they got that then in the 30s there were fists who were dispossessed for refusing to join collective farms !!

[Stiletto]

White, red - they were all the people of our country. The people we have lost. Best of all, the tragedy of the fratricidal war is reflected in The Quiet Don. What country could be without the wars of the last century! History teaches that the people, if they want to survive, must be united. Otherwise, there will always be safari hunters in the vastness of our country, and there are many.

[My address]

In the Urals, in Siberia, White Czechs committed the most atrocities. Kolchakites also distinguished themselves. The closest to the population were red, both partisans and regular units. This was said by mine both from my father's side (ordinary Orthodox peasants) and from my mother's side (Old Believers). Moreover, they lived hundreds of kilometers from each other, and told almost one thing. The Reds even gave out money, but more often pieces of paper for requisitions. After the Czechs and whites, even pieces of paper were an amazing humanism for the population.

[Starina_hank]

And the Czechs are a different story. Our recent allies traveled through Siberia and America to fight the Germans. After the signing of the Brest Peace, the Germans demanded that the Czechs be interned and the Bolsheviks began to impede the movement of military echelons in every way. After they threw a piece of iron out of a passing train in Chelyabinsk and defeated the Czech head, the so-called rebellion began.

[old man54]

Quote: Starina_Hank

And the Czechs are a different story. Our recent allies traveled through Siberia and America to fight the Germans.

what kind of nonsense write, what kind of nonsense !!!! Are you reading the yellow press?

[Prapor Afonya]

Father Tsar, to whom is he Father? This is a ruler, eternal and permanent. The hierarchy of Russia was built in such a way, if you are a slave, then you will remain a slave, any rural boy could reach dizzying heights in the Union, and now we are returning to tsarist Russia, who has the right money and who has big money in troubled times 90 managed to grab his piece by killing and stealing!

[Gomunkul]

Father Tsar

For the people, the king personified with the image of his father, and the people considered themselves his children, hence the expression of the king-father. Therefore, in Russia, the people always considered him their intercessor and sincerely believed in his kindness. And only after Ivan the Terrible and the ensuing civil war with the subsequent coming to power of the Romanovs did the attitude towards the people (serfdom) change. Therefore, the abdication of Nicholas II and the fall of tsarism in Russia was greeted with a bang everywhere.

[Ka3ak]

Well, it’s unlikely everywhere ... A simple analysis of the folklore of the 18-19th century suggests that your conclusion about the change in the attitude of the people to the Tsar is incorrect. For at least one social group - the Cossacks. The peasants, in the 18th century and in the 19th, as far as I remember, continued to suffer, as Soviet historiography says, "naive infantilism" in relation to the Tsar.
The propaganda of the revolutionaries, which had been going on openly for about 100 years by 1917, yielded effective results only in the head of the intelligentsia and secular society.

[Gomunkul]

At least for one social group - the Cossacks.

It was the Cossacks who also supported the Tsar's abdication, the contradictions among the Cossacks by 1917 had also reached a critical point (the land issue). If memory serves, the same campaign of Kornilov against Petrograd failed due to the fact that the Cossacks did not support Kornilov. Their position on what was happening was expressed in the words: if the infantry does not go, then we will not move either. Once again, I repeat, the civil war was imposed on Russia from outside, "our" former allies in the Entente. And here both white and red took an active part.

[Ka3ak]

As for the conclusion, I most likely agree with you.) And, to my regret, I note that the reasons for all this are parsley inside the Russian society of the 18,19,20th, XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries ... Alas ... And so the Entente would roll a sausage.

[Roland]

And even without the Entente, the country then rode like a furious troika on square wheels, the Bolsheviks managed to take the reins in time and direct the country along their road in square wheels.

[Marat]

Yes, I would not say that. The common Russian people still had faith in the tsar-father. That is why the Milyukovs, Guchkovs, Rodzians and hedgehogs with them spread rumors about "rasputivism" and German spies in power, undermining the authority of the tsar in the eyes of the common people, who so it was already low.

[Ka3ak]

You are wrong, social elevators worked in the Republic of Ingushetia. Their speed was not "=" modern. But society was not industrial, industrialization was just getting ready. But nevertheless, the cook's children also studied in gymnasiums and from peasants they were knocked out to merchants, and from recruits to the nobility.
I don’t have to talk about what is happening now, because alas, people alas, almost do not want to work ... This is my own observation. And if he wants, then where is easier ... Alas. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Gomunkul]

Alas, the people hardly want to work now ...

Here I agree with you. Until a respectful attitude towards a working person returns, the situation will not change. Everyone wants fast and easy money. (The main group is young people who are corrupted purposefully from TV screens).

[Starina_hank]

I would say that people basically do not know how or forgot how to work In addition, our modern history teaches that only idealists work at the plant , and the most intelligent and honest work as businessmen, oligarchs and officials

[Ravest]

Yeah, it’s especially obvious how social elevators are working now, that not an official is a son of a genius !!! No wonder Peskov said that their standard is the Russian Empire !!

[Starina_hank]

I tell in a polar way for connoisseurs of Russian history: the father of our main revolutionary was a nobleman and a civilian general, therefore Ilyich was very fond of ordinary Russian people and understood their life. General Denikin’s father was a serf who served as an officer, therefore Denikin did not like the Russian people. General Krasnov has roughly the same motives.

[user]

Most of all, it touches me that Kolchak is currently trying to return a good name by portraying him as a great scientist and researcher. Silent that he became an ordinary mercenary and a gallows of his own people, trying to become a sort of Napoleon.
I write so hard because he distinguished himself in full.
Although I was in school, a sign hangs there so that in 1923 or in 1924 I don’t remember exactly the headquarters of Arkady Gaidar (Golikov). Here is also a noble executioner nobler on him no less.
The executioners and punishers with us, I don’t know, maybe in central Russia it was different that there was plenty on the part of the whites, that of the reds. After all, after the revolution, the Siberians accepted the returning white power with open arms, but they also destroyed it - for the requisite requisitions and atrocities of the white, regular parts of the Red Army there were not many along the Transib.

[Starina_hank]

Kolchak was undoubtedly a decent man! He made a huge contribution to the study of the Russian North. The Black Sea Fleet under his command gained supremacy at sea and conducted brilliant operations, unlike the Second World War. Obviously realizing his defeat, he didn’t hide abroad, but surrendered to the Bolsheviks, to the court of his people.
Gaidar, an honest man and devoted to his country. He fought in the civilian, and then wrote honest books, which are still not a shame to read. The Patriotic War began and went to the front and died surrounded, as he taught in his books. His war in Siberia was obviously not to his liking, and was absolutely not mentioned in his books.

[old man54]

Quote: Starina_Hank

The Black Sea Fleet under his command won supremacy at sea and conducted brilliant operations, unlike the Second World War

[Kostjan]

Such articles had to be mass-printed and filmed documentaries on them in 91

[Gur]

Well, why are you so respected author, here's how to be now for those people who watched the film "Kolchak" how to live on? You wrapped all his nobility in a piece of shit, and at the same time, the "noble" Capel and others. Now, when they come here, all those who had candle factories, mills, stud farms (and for some reason there are more and more of them, it is even created that there was no poverty in Russia, maybe I am the only one, although I have to rummage through the archives, I must have something and I have)))) and they will blow you to smithereens. In other things, I always stood and stand on the position that Lenin was not, and the revolution did not take place and won out of nowhere, and whoever that he didn’t tell me that they were being taken to the Red Army under execution, and this and that. You can't force fight with batogs if there is nothing in your head, and I did not believe in whites and I do not believe in their sincerity and honesty (of course there were HUMAN PEOPLE, but these are only a few, and even then all their sincerity and honesty is more condescension for the lower masses, but this is already human nature) for them we were and will be cattle, which was proved by the Second World War, and what they are now trying to make of them the lambs of God, so this is the current masters (Mikhalkov and others) need to legalize their right to you and me, although life shows that their methods are all the same, and everything that the Soviet government gave to the people gradually goes into the anus, or rather into the hands of the newly-minted bars, and the people have a patience not iron. And the fact that many say that the revolution is a bad thing, let them try to offer another way change the situation, and we'll see who will allow them.

[Hleb]

my great-grandfather was a Red Army man. He was shot by the White Guards, which are discussed in the article. He was buried in a mass grave in the square. Later a monument was erected, which immediately died in 1919-1921. and the dead in WWII

[Vyalik]

Okay, do you mix Kolchak with dirt, and what did Kappel do to you? A combat general who, with a small group of soldiers, smashed the Bolsheviks, at least did not read anywhere that he had gallows in the rear. The article is not so simple. It’s not white who began to nail on their shoulders, and to kill officers simply because they are not terror, is it true? Not only white but also red are to blame for the mutual destruction. Did the red terror bring joy to the people? There are no right and wrong people in a civil war guilty. Everyone is to blame.

[Ravest]

And this is not Kappel removed the treasury of the Russian Empire from Kazan? So then there was no gold to at least buy grain and, as a result, the famine of 1921?

[Letterksi]

I completely agree. Everything happened not from scratch. I don’t know how good or bad the Reds were at that time, but they were able to unite the destroyed country. Yes, gradually the red elite degraded into what we now have, but at that time there was nothing but Bolshevism. If not Bolshevism, then the country would have long been destroyed in pieces by Western and Eastern barbarians.

The fears of those who think about the possibility of a repeat of the events of the civil war are unfounded. Because bloody events are typical only in countries with a population explosion, as in Russia of the 18th year. Russia is now in a demographic depression. Therefore, even if there is enough strength to overthrow the modern rotten government, this will happen with relatively little blood. The current government simply does not have defenders, except for the OMON. They either resign themselves to her like "and who if not ..." or hate her. Modern colonial power is a complete semblance of power after the February 17 revolution.

Russia will not be able to live in the conditions of Western colonial occupation for long. Moreover, according to the most perverted ideological "concepts" of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School under conditions of 100% monetarism. Russia will be able to live normally and begin to develop, only according to traditional Russian laws and traditions, which assume 100% sovereignty. (Russia is a self-sufficient country and can afford it) Only Russian traditions imply a decrease in the degree of tension in society, sometimes, of course, by surgical methods. On the contrary, the West always escalates tension both at home and in its colonies, which, in my opinion, we all feel on ourselves

Nicholas II could not cope with a decrease in the degree of tension in society, but rather went according to Western traditions, escalating the situation until the First World War. (For example, by admitting commoner Rasputin to the tsar’s court, he lost, in modern terms, a confidence rating) The Russian elite has grown strongly together with the West at the time, which is happening now and to an even greater extent. The consequences were sad for him and the country.

[sergey72]

"The current authorities simply do not have defenders except for the OMON" - I agree with you here, but large owners, oligarchs and bureaucrats who have grown together with them have quite numerous guards and a real shadow army - private security companies ...

[Ka3ak]

There are defenders, I took the oath.

[Letterksi]

Was the oath taken to Russia and its people, or to the president and the hedgehog with him? Who are you going to protect?

[Rus86]

“I, (surname, name, patronymic), solemnly swear allegiance to my Fatherland - the Russian Federation. I swear to observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation, strictly comply with the requirements of military regulations, orders of commanders and commanders. I swear to fulfill the military duty with dignity, courageously defend the freedom, independence and constitutional system of Russia, the people and the Fatherland. ”
As he said, I will do so!

[old man54]

Well write, thank you, I owe you, "-" I put it without reading it, reacted to the flag, I'm sorry. Below is corrected.

[kanevsvv]

After so many years, neither the right nor the curves can be identified. Let's think better and ask - WHO ELSE WANTS REVOLUTIONS AND CIVIL WAR? If there are such people, let them bring them to any other country with their "springs" and "flower revolutions". We need to sort it out calmly. Otherwise it will be, as always in Russia in times of troubles - a merciless riot and blood.

[Gomunkul]

WHO STILL WANTS REVOLUTIONS AND CIVIL WAR?

I can recommend you to read Lenin V.I., he described everything well there in his writings. From the school course, his words are recalled: a revolution is possible when the Tops cannot, but the lower classes do not want ...

[Ka3ak]

Bottoms ... :) Do not take the rash words of V.I. as an objective fact of history.
He himself wrote that in order to organize the “lower classes”, one needs to organize:
A. An intelligentsia that would enlighten (with a brush with a brush) the dark working class.
B. Organization is a party.

[Gomunkul]

I quoted the words of V.I. to a situation where a revolution is possible. And you write who should participate in this.

[Ka3ak]

XM) Sorry, maybe I misunderstood you. But it seemed to me that the words you quoted stated that the revolution had objective roots, a subjective reason ... umm was missing. That is, the precipitate in the solution precipitated as a result of the objective reason for the increase in t, and whoever warmed up the solution to the desired temperature was generally not important. Although this is the reason. )

[Dimy4]

You have forgotten the most important thing - the presence of the working class, which in our country can be considered extinct. And the complete lack of education for this working class. Guess right away, who is now most suitable for this category, who occupies the most unskilled niches in the labor market, and who is becoming more and more?

[Gur]

Your suggestions how to do it calmly? So that we would be returned the right to free education, the right to work, to a decent salary, to a decent pension, to free medicine, to travel across the country at state tariffs and not how the owner would like, how to calmly make nature management public, how to calmly return GOST, how to calmly so that people do not live in poverty? Please tell us the options?

[Gomunkul]

One of the varants to send walkers from the petition to the king-father, and tell her about the aspirations of the people

the right to free education, the right to work, to a decent salary, to a decent pension, to free medicine, to travel across the country at state tariffs

And then all sorts of current

the Milyukovs, Guchkovs, Rodzians, and hedgehogs with them spread rumors about "rassputivism" and German spies in power, undermining the tsar's authority in the eyes of the common people

[Yarosvet]

Quote: GUR

Your suggestions how to do it calmly? So that we would be returned the right to free education, the right to work, to a decent salary, to a decent pension, to free medicine, to travel across the country at state tariffs and not how the owner would like, how to calmly make nature management public, how to calmly return GOST, how to calmly so that people do not live in poverty?

All of the above is done calmly - a decision is made and work begins on its implementation.
Another thing is that those who disagree with this decision start shooting and yelling that they are "brave", and their singers declare that the cause of the shots was the villains who decided to build a society based on the principles of justice.

[Cheloveck]

Quote: Yarosvet

Quote: GUR

Your suggestions how to do it calmly? So that we would be returned the right to free education, the right to work, to a decent salary, to a decent pension, to free medicine, to travel across the country at state tariffs and not how the owner would like, how to calmly make nature management public, how to calmly return GOST, how to calmly so that people do not live in poverty?

All of the above is done calmly - a decision is made and work begins on its implementation.
Another thing is that those who disagree with this decision start shooting and yelling that they are "brave", and their singers declare that the cause of the shots was the villains who decided to build a society based on the principles of justice.

Uh, excuse me, where is it done?
And, excuse me, when?

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Cheloveck

Uh, excuse me, where is it done?

Anywhere.

And, excuse me, when?

When a decision is made to do.

[optimist]

Quote: GUR

Your suggestions how to do it calmly?

The fact of the matter, dear, that there is no way ... It is naive to think that almost 100 years ago, our ancestors tore each other's throats from doing something. Apparently, there were good reasons ... The overwhelming majority preferred armed struggle to their bestial position, and the minority no less fiercely defended their privileged position. The worst thing is that we are moving towards that. In the next couple of years, Russia will definitely be dragged into some kind of mess like the 1st World War, which was the catalyst for 1917. The Bolsheviks can be treated in different ways, but in one thing they are certainly right: crazy money and power change a person more than a neglected form of schizophrenia. It was from this "schizophrenia" that Russia was saved. But, as we can see, it didn't last long ...

[revnagan]

Quote: kanevsvv

WHO STILL WANTS REVOLUTIONS AND CIVIL WAR?

Quote: kanevsvv

We need to deal calmly.

Well, how do you imagine a calm showdown between you and Abramovich? After all, in fairness, people like him just have to return all dishonestly assigned property to the state (I emphasize, to the STATE, not to me, not to you and not to the mythical ordinary citizen). It will give what you think "And if you don’t want to? Maybe you’ll go to him day after day and talk him into it? And then your children and grandchildren, grandchildren, will go? Do you agree to this option? I don’t! And if there is a person who can break the situation through the knee, support any available to me with means. Oligarchs are occupants on our land. It is impossible to agree with them. Either they are us.

[Goldmitro]

The Naglo-Saxons, the main historical enemies of Russia, sponsored the revolution not for the sake of the Bolsheviks coming to power, They set the task of DESTROYING Russia - their main enemy on the way to world domination! At the same time, it was important not just the destruction of Russia as a state, but, given the time-tested rebelliousness of the Russian people, the impossibility of subordinating it to the will of foreigners, democratizing, the West planned to massively destroy the RUSSIAN people, its gene pool, to inflict such a blow on the Russian nation that it could no longer to recover and do all this with the hands of the Russians themselves through unleashing a civil war in which they took an active part and helped to ensure that as much as possible RUSSIAN blood was shed and the "white and red terror" corresponded to these cannibalistic plans!

[does it]

The "allies" of the white movement - the British, French and other Japanese - exported everything: metal, coal, bread, machine tools and equipment, engines and furs. Civil steamships and steam locomotives were stolen.

Yes, they were robbed in the first place in Arkhangelsk, all the warehouses were emptied! At the end of the 80s, one woman told us about an incident with her family; we were sitting for dinner, suddenly a knock at the door, a drunken Englishman came into the water and said to us in broken Russian "We came to free you "and we opened our mouths in surprise!" From whom to liberate that!? from ourselves or what. "

[w.barc]

yes a tragedy ...
by the way bare facts are usually supported by documents)))

[Starina_hank]

And put yourself in the place of the Entente! Russia has signed a separate peace with Germany and is obliged to pay a huge indemnity (100 tons of gold were sent almost a bit, you have to pay for help in the revolution), and all this good would go to the German comrades to continue the war! Who benefits from this? We betrayed our allies, and I think the attitude towards the traitors is the same everywhere.

[pinecone]

"The war, undoubtedly, gave rise to the most severe crisis and exacerbated the misery of the masses. The reactionary nature of this war, the shameless lies of the bourgeoisie of all countries, covering up their predatory goals with" national "ideology - all this on the basis of an objectively revolutionary situation inevitably creates revolutionary sentiments among the masses Our duty is to help realize these sentiments, deepen and formalize them. This task is correctly expressed only by the slogan of turning the imperialist war into a civil war, and any consistently class struggle during the war, any seriously pursued tactics of mass action inevitably leads to this. "
IN AND. Lenin "Socialism and War" Zurich, 1915.

[Letterksi]

In the framework of modern Russian reality, according to Milton Friedman, events similar to those described will not happen. There is a gradual soldering and driving away of the inhabitants of Russia in a general large concentration camp called the Russian Federation. The casualties and losses for 22 years exceeded the civil war and the Second World War combined

[Xoxoxnumxun]

The article is definitely a "minus". Not a single serious source. Basically, everything is unfounded. There is such a murky story that now whoever wants to illuminate these events. Fundamental works describing that time have not yet been presented, and have not even heard of projects. Not to describe everything in such a way - no, I haven't seen it yet. Everything is either in color in Red or in color White.

Specifically, this article is more in Red.

And I do not see the Jewish factor in the description.

[Standard Oil]

And the history of the civil war will always be either in red or white, the red people were killed, no doubt, but you do not want to say that the white people fed ice cream, stroked their heads and released, this is a war, and civil where you hate the enemy even more than an alien enemy.

[bya965]

Civil war is always a great sorrow for the peoples drawn into it. Oddly enough, it has no winners among its own, and those of the strangers who fanned it all are winners at once. Our people remembered this terrible lesson and in 1991 did not allow a new civil one. We must talk about civil historical truth, how much it can be restored, especially to children in school. And as detailed as possible. For one broken, two not broken give.

[Hort]

Yes, now it’s hard for children to tell something. There are already fairy tales and they forbid: http: //www.zakon436.ru/books_12.php

This is generally some kind of, gentlemen, comrades!

[Russ69]

It seems to me stupid now to whitewash which side in that war. Cruelty sufficed from all sides. Civil war is the worst thing that we unfortunately happened to go through.

[revnagan]

And where did Yoshkin Kot, Yesaul and Romanov go? I would like to get acquainted with their opinion on these facts.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: revnagan

And where did Yoshkin Kot, Yesaul and Romanov go? I would like to get acquainted with their opinion on these facts.

And what do you want me to tell you about the red terror. For you, at least *** all of God's dew. The author is red for the very tomatoes, put a minus, but went further.
PS Lenin is cremated, the dust is dispelled from the cannon, and where his mummy was lying, wash everything with chlorine. That would leave the spirit from Judas !!!

[does it]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

PS Lenin is cremated, the dust is dispelled from the cannon, and where his mummy was lying, wash everything with chlorine. That would leave the spirit from Judas !!!

In this case, the same thing will have to be done with the relics of some kings and saints. Peter the first put Russia on its hind legs! Lenin turned it over! Any revolution is washed by blood, the legacy of the Bolshevik Communists is enormous! And those who today pour mud on them are shamelessly using this heritage.

[Alone]

It is advisable not with some, but with everyone.

[does it]

Monument to the Defenders of the Soviet North 1918-1920
Monument to the Defenders of the Soviet North

[revnagan]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

And what you want,

Here, you can immediately see that a person has real noble roots. "Pokes" the impolite rabble from a raid. This is me, a man from ordinary people, everything is on you, but for hereditary nobles everything is simple - "Man, hey, man! ". Aha, schaz, your honor.

[Hort]

but there were no saints there on either side. And in relation to the neutral civilian population, both of them were noted by far from charity. The Reds shot two of my great-grandfathers during the "dispossession", although they were not fists. The third got off with the confiscation of property.
And one more great-grandfather - on the maternal side - either the head of the Tomsk diocese, or his deputy (here I do not understand church positions) was also shot during the struggle against "opium for the people."
So it is unlikely that these were "retaliatory measures" to the atrocities of the "whites".

[Gomunkul]

yes there were no saints there on either side

You are right, the 1917 revolution is still waiting for its impartial researchers. They love the Anglo-Saxons when the earth is watered with Russian blood.

[Roland]

Article minus. The author, but if (God forbid, of course) a coup begins in the country, in an hour representatives of the new government will show up to you and ask who are you? Who do you swear to? The new government or to whom? The choice is obvious? You swear allegiance to the new government, and tomorrow it will be gone, the old government will sweep away the "rebels" into oblivion. Then the old power will remember the person of his abdication and vice versa. Everyone had families and whether or not to swear allegiance to the new government was a difficult question and the choice always had an unpredictable result, like even odd. Civil war is always scary, and both are good. Who was guided by what impulses of the soul when swearing to white, red, tsar, invaders is unknown, and no one will tell the truth why he went to this or that. Maybe he wanted to keep his family alive and that's why he swore an oath ?! Or maybe to loot ?!

Atrocities have always been in all wars since the beginning of the chronicle. Well, in such a situation as the GV, judge for yourself the country is raped, the war is going on for some unknown reason with its own people, there is hunger everywhere, there is hunting, there is no ammunition, you are fighting for a mythical bright future, you risk your life, but here some peasant does not want give the cow to the fighters for a "bright future", he also sympathizes with the opposing side, all this angered the fighters of all military-political movements, hence it follows that in such terrible conditions people instantly satanic doing the most unthinkable things from a human point of view.

And the moral is this! That all political movements during wars put ordinary people in an awkward position of choice, which can then have fatal consequences for the whole family! A bunch of examples!


This video clearly shows how rage and hatred blinds a person, and how an "inner demon" pushes soul and body into the abyss. Look and understand (preferably with sound) look to the end.

[Hleb]

Civil war is always scary, and both are good

I agree with you on this. to pit Russians with Russians is a disaster ... but I always have an uneasy perception of comments about the "oath". no matter how minuses I saw in communism, but in no topic here did I call the last words of the communists and Lenin. because I remember swearing, kissing the pioneer banner. I remember how I joined the Komsomol ... and someone even joined the party. They wore Lenin's badge on their chest. And today they just refuse it. What to call it? Tell me?

[Roland]

And in no way positively negatively. There is already no country what to do? Here, I personally think so (maybe I'm wrong) to remain either in neutrality, or if the state system is comfortable taking the oath to him. But here's how to look. They tried to save the USSR, the past cannot be returned, and life goes on. There is no USSR and the oath has lost its meaning. The main thing is in the soul, to whom, what you swore. An oath of conscience, honor, love for one’s country is the best oath. And it doesn’t matter what banners you stand under if your cause is right. Swear to creation for the good of the country, not destruction.

[Xoxoxnumxun]

Quote: Standard Oil

And the history of the civil war will always be either in red or in white

In no case should this be allowed. A historical assessment must be given an obligatory assessment; otherwise, these millions died in vain, and the country did not learn this history lesson without drawing the proper conclusions.

In Soviet times, an assessment of those events was not given truthfully - as a result, the story of the revolution was repeated in 1991, somewhat camouflaged. There were no more victims from this. How many Russians perished in the newly independent national republics and how many perished in national conflicts in Russia itself, there is still no exact figure. The Russian people again walked with a bloody whip.

Quote: bya965

Our people remembered this terrible lesson and 1991 did not allow a new civic.

I do not remember. There was simply no prerequisite for a split in the Russian population, but on an ethnic basis it was more profitable to split, which happened. The result is on the political map of the world around the Russian Federation.

Quote: Standard Oil

different people killed, no doubt, but you don’t want to say that whites fed everyone ice cream, stroked their heads and let go

Of course, I do not want to say such obvious rubbish, but the events MUST receive an unbiased assessment. I will explain why:
1. At the moment, society is split. This can be seen with the naked eye. There are people for the revival of the Soviet project, there are people for the revival of the imperial project (in the pre-revolutionary format), there are people for the development and modernization of the capitalist project. Moreover, each of these areas has a solid electoral base. At the same time, they cannot agree and the organic interact in view of the existing mutual claims, which ultimately weakens Russia as a state in different directions. Only a true appraisal of events can unite and reconcile them - otherwise one of these parties goes into opposition.
2. The new generation needs to be educated on a sober perception of reality, so that in the future it does not make mistakes that will destroy our country.

3. As one of the steps towards solving this problem - writing a single balanced history textbook. I am in favor with both hands.


To make it clearer about what - examples:

How do Tatars take Kazan capture day? How aggression Russian? How is the intervention?
How do Chechens perceive the inclusion of the territory of their republic in the Russian Empire? How is genocide?

And these are very urgent questions, because even today against the background of these questions blood is pouring.

Ideally, on the territory of ALL of Russia there should be a single interpretation of history and a single ideology that does not exist. The country has no vector. Now it is clear that the country is recovering, the country's energy is accumulating. The task of the Government is to set this vector so that the kinetic energy of the country is spent on benefits, rather than go off the horn.

[Hleb]

There are people for the revival of the Soviet project, there are people for the revival of the imperial project (in the pre-revolutionary format), there are people for the development and modernization of the capitalist project.
However, they cannot agree

Yes, with whom to agree? They cannot agree with themselves. You say there are people for the revival of communism, there are those who want capitalism, but at the same time, the same people who call the idea of ​​communism hostile and treacherous are here crying for the USSR. because there is a paradox in our eyes that they bifurcate. They find all the dirt under the Soviet system, tear off their covers ... and at the same time when they wear the Oktobernik badges with Lenin, they read about Stalin's respectful attitude towards Lenin, and yet they turn over the komunyak and cover it with the last words. if everything is bad then burn cr snyh. if good, this is our MOTHERLAND! Soviet! we want back! so where back? where did you wear the pioneer badge and sang the hymn-AND LENIN THE GREAT WAY WAS LIKE US! where the red whites fired? where was Stalin considered the enemy of the people? or to where Gagarin lived and there was a strong army? Is it some kind of hell, in such logic ...

[nok01]

1. For comparison, you must first read and see materials about the Red Terror from the first days of the revolution, then everything will fall into place immediately.
2. By 1917, the staff officers in the army remained miserable, the cadets did not have time to make up for the shortage in the command staff, all subsequent replenishment were illiterate, short-sighted in the perception of something! In principle, the figures may be objective, but still cause doubts, I take into account the dirt and humiliation that the provisional government and committees drove the officer into!
3. "Kolchak Alexander Vasilyevich, so beloved" romantic hero "of the modern" intelligentsia. "Kolchak, breaking the oath of the Russian Empire, was the first in the Black Sea Fleet to swear allegiance to the Provisional Government." No wonder, almost the entire command staff was happy about the revolution !!! The tsar and his government completely discredited themselves, read that even a military coup was being prepared, but the Bolsheviks were the first to succeed!
4. Well, reading the article, it immediately becomes clear that Comrade Ulyanov (Lenin) and Comrade Bronstein (Trotsky) did not have blood on their elbows, but the senior command personnel of the fronts, who devoted their whole lives to the army and serving their country!

[Starina_hank]

It’s not clear a little. The tsar renounced power, rules the Provisional Government. I am an officer, what should I do? Do not swear allegiance to the new legitimate government, go to fight for the tsar or continue to fight with the Germans? I think Kolchak chose the most acceptable way.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Marat

Here the author is already frankly exaggerating the humanism of Soviet power. I imagine how Trotsky addresses the Romanovs with a similar proposal. Who shot the imperial family?

Here really, not add not to diminish. As you do not shuffle the facts, whitewashing some and denigrating others, it is true in the middle. Angels were not on one side.

[Tver]

The American Civil War was also brutal, not like ours, but also without much mercy. All countries have gone through this test for the most varied reasons: religious, social ... More interesting is the current attitude to the sad events of almost a century ago. It is funny to see the excuse of the executioners of the Russian officers; they say "zolopogonniki" put things in order not in "white gloves". It is strange that this is being discussed by people who were military professionals in the past.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Tver

The American Civil War was also brutal, not like ours, but also without much mercy. .

Significantly more brutal than you might imagine. During the years of war in the USA, 600 thousand people died. This is more than the USA lost during WWII. And it is worth considering the primitiveness of weapons of the mid-19th century, in order to understand the bitterness of both sides. And did the GV in France during the WWF or England during the overthrow of Charles the First, have they not been distinguished by fantastic cruelty? The Jews, too, were no better during the siege of Jerusalem by Roman troops in AD 64. There was a split among the rebellious Jews and the Zealots with the Sykars began to slaughter each other with no less bitterness than the Roman legionnaires. Dirty this thing gv

[Xoxoxnumxun]

Quote: nok01

Well, reading the article, it immediately becomes clear that Comrade Ulyanov (Lenin) and Comrade Bronstein (Trotsky) did not have blood on their elbows, but the senior command personnel of the fronts, who devoted their whole lives to the army and serving their country!

Here's an interesting article on this topic:
http://russkiy-malchik.livejournal.com/347539.html

Regarding the abdication of Nicholas II:
http://patriotka.livejournal.com/39551.html

We read and think.

[Tver]

The king has renounced "for real"! And the generals did not just count on removing the ruling monarch. There are many reasons for the army to intervene in politics. And in Russian history this happened more than once - Peter the Third alone was worth something. Let me remind you that he betrayed the interests of Russia for the sake of paranoid admiration for Frederick of Prussia. It was he who was the first sovereign from the Gottorp dynasty (as they called themselves). The catastrophe of 17 had many roots and in vain the author of the article reproaches the honored generals for swearing an oath.

[crash]

From the book by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Reflections on the February Revolution.
The Russian government in February of the seventeenth did not show
not a thin muscle for children, it behaved weaker than a mouse. February
the revolution was lost on the part of the authorities even before the start of the revolution itself.
There was also a bruise in the Fifth Year, miserable on January 9th. Sovereign never
I could not forgive myself for that unfortunate bloodshed. Most of all now he
he feared to use military force against his people before and more than need.
Yes, even during the war! - and shed blood on the streets! ...
But take care so much
the many-sided son Nicholas pushed the monarchy to fall.
And he didn’t have the right to transfer the throne to Mikhail, without ascertaining his
consent.
And above state laws: all the more, he did not have the right to renounce
at the time of great national danger.
And even higher: all his life he understood his reign as an anointing of God
and he himself could not lay him off, but only death.
It is precisely because the will of the monarch that subjects must fulfill
Unquestioningly - the monarch’s responsibility has been increased a million times over
with any ordinary person. This country was entrusted to him - a heritage,
tradition and God - and that's why he is responsible for the revolution that happened
most.
On these first days of March, his main impulse was - family! - wife!
a son! Good family man, did it occur to him to think about millions more
people, also family, connected with him by their oath, and millions,
indiscriminately affirmed on the monarchical idea?
He preferred to remove himself from the burden.
Weak king, he betrayed us.
All of us - for everything that follows.

[Alone]

Still this ub.dka, Solzhenitsyn, was not enough here.

[Pimply]

It's funny. Yesterday about Dachau, today in the same vein - about whites. White, red and green were killed. And the number of forces that had influence in this civil war was by no means limited to the "evil Anglo-Saxons."

[tactic]

Kolchak in vain pouring mud. It was a war, and atrocities in peacetime are enough ... And a lot of outright lies in the article. Somehow:

Kolchak, breaking the oath of the Russian Empire, was the first in the Black Sea Fleet to swear allegiance to the Provisional Government.

There was no such thing.
From the records of Kolchak:

The team and the population asked me to send a greeting on behalf of the Black Sea Fleet to the new government, which I fulfilled.

—A.V. Kolchak. March 6, 1917

The letter spoke precisely of the GREETINGS of the Provisional Government and of the hope of the continuation of hostilities in the war with the Germans, and there could be no talk of any ingratiating tone. The letter was written only to prevent bloodshed at the beginning.

Further. The author writes about allegedly close relations with the French, British and others. Absolute nonsense. You would have thought, if such a relationship really had a place to be, then as if the admiral would have remained practically alone, betrayed by all, captured by decision of General Zhanen by the forces of the Czechoslovak Corps ...

Head of the Irkutsk Communists A.A. Shiryamov (chairman of the committee that signed the regulation on the shooting of the admiral) about the reasons for Kolchak’s extradition:

Without power, Kolchak was of no value to the Allies or the Czechs; in his personal qualities, direct and harsh, trying to defend the "sovereignty of the Russian government" from the claims of the Allies, he has long been in sharp conflict with the Allies, and even more so with the Czechs.

The whole reason for the temporary support of the allies was the thirst for profit: everyone hoped to get their hands on the gold reserve (part of it, a small one), which Kolchak recaptured from the Bolsheviks. The admiral understood all this very well, and once he said: "I'd rather leave the gold to the Bolsheviks than give it to the allies", in principle, predetermined his fate. Or, as an example, the support offered by the Finns of 100 thousand fighters, at a time when Kolchak most of all he needed them, in exchange for the independence of Finland, which the admiral rejected sharply.

Even in the press of the times of the USSR, Kolchak was presented as a true patriot

Article minus

[arnulla]

If tsarism was white and fluffy, as they are trying to present to us, the Bolsheviks would not have that support, with the help of which they eventually won ...

[tactic]

Quote: arnulla

If tsarism was white and fluffy, as they are trying to present to us, the Bolsheviks would not have that support, with the help of which they eventually won ...

if White didn’t have popular support, Kolchak would also be unable to gather a huge army and conquer half of Russia. I’m sure that the Lenin case was actively financed from behind the hill, in the end, the reward announced by Lenin for Kolchak’s head of $ 7 million says a lot

[heruv1me]

From the article I concluded that the main enemy is the internal enemy.

[alex20081308]

Read Melgunov's book "The Red Terror in Russia"
My strong conviction is that in the Civil War, the winner is the one who spills more blood and does not stop at any victims. The Reds ended up being more ruthless than the White. And besides, they could present (at least in words) a clear goal of the struggle, understandable to both the peasant and the worker. Therefore they won

[michajlo]

Quote: Yarosvet

Quote: Letnab

because in case of victory of their beliefs

The current liberals are just as idealistic as the liberals of the past.
But the current neoliberals came to power in the early 90s, and power is still in their hands.

Good afternoon, dear "Yarosvet"! I disagree with your 1st sentence.
In my opinion, liberals, neo-liberals are not idealists, they only pretend to more naive and gullible longer believed in their tales.
I believe that they are simply CONSCIOUS CHANGES TO THE HOMELAND!
you think all these old and gray-haired heroes of the collapse of the USSR with their foreign awards, bonuses, and plus I apologize for the expression younger bastards with diplomas from foreign colleges and universities (1985-2013) - Did the West reward and teach, granting scholarships, for beautiful eyes and the desire to make friends between "wild Russia" and the "cultural West"? !
I am sure that all these are links in one chain of events - a planned and the SUCCESSFUL collapse of the Union, destroying it from the inside, and dividing its residues into ELSE smaller parts,
hands of money-hungry Judah and their disciples and minions,
with a friendly smile and in the silence of BEAUTIFUL LIFE and CONSUMPTION, bWithout the declaration of war and the roar of shells and tank engines of NATO.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: michajlo

Welcome.

In my opinion, liberals, neo-liberals are not idealists, they only pretend to more naive and gullible longer believed in their tales.

Those who pretend are not liberals, just as Gorbachev was not a communist.
Liberals are those who profess certain principles and adhere to them, and not those who, when voicing these principles, act with them at odds.

I believe that they are simply CONSCIOUS CHANGES TO THE HOMELAND!

There are some, it is even possible that their overwhelming majority are just not liberals.

you think all these old and gray-haired heroes of the collapse of the USSR with their foreign awards, bonuses, and plus I apologize for the expression younger bastards with diplomas from foreign colleges and universities (1985-2013) - Did the West reward and teach, granting scholarships, for beautiful eyes and the desire to make friends between "wild Russia" and the "cultural West"? !

No, of course, but the groups you have listed have nothing to do with liberalism.

I am sure that all these are links in one chain of events - a planned and the SUCCESSFUL collapse of the Union, destroying it from the inside, and dividing its residues into ELSE smaller parts,

They didn’t bring down the Union, but the system — it’s another matter that the USSR also had to collapse for this.

[michajlo]

And here again a friendly hello: "error", and everything written to dust.
Probably you will have to write down your notes in the TXT file first, in order to have a copy and just restore your words, and write them in a new way.
I did this two weeks ago. Noverno we are here a lot of "active" members of the forum, here is the VO server, steam "bleeds" on us, who "under the arm of the case" will turn up.

[michajlo]

Quote: Yarosvet

Quote: michajlo

Welcome.

In my opinion, liberals, neo-liberals are not idealists, they only pretend to more naive and gullible longer believed in their tales.

Those who pretend are not liberals, just like Gorbachev was not a communist.
Liberals are those who profess certain principles and adhere to them, and not those who, when voicing these principles, act with them at odds.

I am sure that all these are links in one chain of events - a planned and the SUCCESSFUL collapse of the Union, destroying it from the inside, and dividing its residues into ELSE smaller parts,

They didn’t bring down the Union, but the system — it’s another matter that the USSR also had to collapse for this.

I am glad to exchange thoughts with you dear "Yarosvet"!
But tell me please, where did the liberals come from in the USSR, we were not attacked in 1985, 1989 or 1991 by enemy armies and military equipment.
We all lost just because it was usual for the sake of money the betrayal of the highest power, and all without exception, party workers and the KGB, had in your pocket like us ordinary communists, the exact same PARTY TICKET.
Maybe we didn’t understand each other, or we have different thoughts, but for me, these are ALL people from the history of the 80-90s and today (2000-2013) CHANGES OF THE MOTHERLAND, they are NOT liberals.
And I do not rank among the liberals, both "the soft and given to the West comrade LADY" and our pride in front of the whole world of the "unyielding iron comrade VVP". For me and they are just TRAITORS!
I will be very glad if it later turns out that I am in relation to the first persons (Comrade VVP and DAM), now I was mistaken and wrong! But while this seems to me very unlikely.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: michajlo

where did the liberals come from in the USSR, [/ u]we were not attacked in 1985, 1989 or 1991 by enemy armies and military equipment.

And where does the attack? Liberalism is just a system of values ​​that justifies the need for freedom of decision-making and action within the framework of a law that suits the majority, with full personal responsibility for these decisions and actions. Value systems originate within social groups as a reaction to any aspects of the social environment in which these groups are located. In addition, the Russian empire itself was inherently neoliberal, as a result of which the presence of certain revanchist sentiments was quite natural.

We all lost just because it was usual for the sake of money the betrayal of the highest power, and all without exception, party workers and the KGB, [u] had in our pocket [/ u] just like ordinary communists, [u] exactly the same PARTY TICKET. [/ u]

I'm not sure that the concept of "betrayal" is appropriate, but the fact that the usurpation of power and the people's property has taken place is a fact.

Maybe we didn’t understand each other, or we have different thoughts, but for me, these are ALL people from the history of the 80-90s and today (2000-2013) CHANGES OF THE MOTHERLAND, they are NOT liberals.

So they are not liberals - they are neoliberals, because they adhere to the value system of one of the forms of fascism.

And I do not rank among the liberals, both "the soft and given to the West comrade LADY" and our pride in front of the whole world of the "unyielding iron comrade VVP". For me and they are just TRAITORS!
I will be very glad if it later turns out that I am in relation to the first persons (Comrade VVP and DAM), now I was mistaken and wrong! But while this seems to me very unlikely.

I fully share this.

[Prapor Afonya]

Quote: Gomunkul

Father Tsar

For the people, the king personified with the image of his father, and the people considered themselves his children, hence the expression of the king-father. Therefore, in Russia, the people always considered him their intercessor and sincerely believed in his kindness. And only after Ivan the Terrible and the ensuing civil war with the subsequent coming to power of the Romanovs did the attitude towards the people (serfdom) change. Therefore, the abdication of Nicholas II and the fall of tsarism in Russia was greeted with a bang everywhere.

Well, if you like to go under the master who eats and goes to paradise on your hump, so get a job somewhere in Rublevka, and let the newly-born bourgeois be both your father and mother!

[Internal combustion engine]

Thanks to the author for the article. We have lost the power of the Soviets and voluntarily seated the parasites-bourgeois and oligarchs on their necks. Return Freedom now oh how it will not just be. Soon it will be exactly 20 years since the power of the Soviets fell on October 3, 1993.

[Ravest]

That's right! I can not like your comment, for some reason there is no such button)))

[michajlo]

Quote: GUR

Your suggestions how to do it calmly? So that we would be returned the right to free education, the right to work, to ... how to calmly return GOST, how to calmly so that people do not live in poverty? Please tell us the options? [/ Quote]

Quote: kanevsvv

We need to deal calmly.

here you go how do you imagine a quiet showdown between you and Abramovich?
Indeed, in fairness, people like him simply must return all dishonestly assigned property to the state (I emphasize, by the STATE, not to me, not to you, and not to the mythical ordinary citizen).
Will give what you think? And if he doesn’t want to?
Maybe you’ll go to him every day and persuade him?
And then your children and grandchildren - grandchildren will walk? Do you agree to this option?
I don’t! And if there is such a person that can break the situation through the knee, I will support by any means available to me.
Oligarchs are occupants on our land. It is impossible to agree with them.
Either they are us.

Quote: Yarosvet

Quote: GUR

Your suggestions how to do it calmly? ...

All of the above is done calmly - a decision is made and work begins on its implementation.
Another thing is that those who disagree with this decision start shooting and yelling that they are "brave" ...

Good day to all! I apologize I write again right now, instead of the lost one with "error" (from 17: 59 / CET).
From the quoted notes, I liked the calm wording of the question from "GUR-a". Regarding the answers to his question, I personally join "kanevsvv-y".
His direct and without excessive intelligence, the answer seems to me the only possible it’s just that we’ll think about it for 2-4 years.
But when the patience of the people bursts, to give back and tighten their belts, ordinary citizens will have nowhere to go, and then the thunder will probably strike.
Now many of us are still afraid for yourself, life, family, acquired ...
But in the near future, when in the first ranks of dissatisfied tens of thousands of people who have lost everything but their lives, neither their batons, nor shots from police trunks in the face - they will not intimidate!
But then it will be too late to organize, discuss, believe in repeated promises and decrees ...
At a time you are quickly flowing away. Probably all the same, from the words we should slowly move on to the point.
I mean not a "call to overthrow the government" а the formation of a broad civil REQUIREMENTS to the authorities (not petition) that It is NECESSARY to solve the problems of the country and the people, а not zagr. and home oligarchs, their creators and defenders in the Kremlin and on the Lubyanka.

[nekromonger]

Quote: Remko

Most likely German, remember who sponsored Lenin and why.

this topic is not held in high esteem here. Here they love Bronstein, Shmutskers, Kibbutzkers, etc.

[Letterksi]

For some reason, horror stories about the former civil war do not scare me. Modern reality scares me more

[Alone]

Bravo to the author! For the second time, in about 1.5, I read an article on the site that goes against the official story. It’s only a pity that articles of this kind do not appear here often, but even less often outside the site. And about the atrocities of the whites and their allies, without being too lazy, anyone can find information confirming the article.

[Snoop]

The Reds won and this is a historical fact. We would not have won without the support of the majority of the population. The most important thing is that many then realized that if White won, then there would be no country like Russia on the map. White's yesterday's allies will tear it to pieces. When did the British or Yankees abandon the "poorly lying" regions with resources? Do you think that in victory, the white invaders calmly removed their troops from Russian territory? And would the new Russian government be satisfied with only paying off debts for weapons and ammunition? At that time, there was only one independent political force in the country that could create and create a new independent state - the Bolsheviks. It seems to me that many Russian officers thought, passing to the Bolsheviks, that the main thing was to serve Russia, and under which flag it was not so important.

[Des10]

The civil war is terrible from any direction - even with the red, even with the white.
The invasion of foreign troops, the rebellion of the whites and the financing of whites from abroad - this is no longer brother to brother, it is an attempt to destroy the state (it does not matter the Russian Empire or the Soviet ...) by military force.
The article is a plus.

[tixon444]

Eternal memory to all those who died in civilian life, regardless of which side they fought on. They folded their heads in the name of the Fatherland - for Russia.

[Tver]

Quote: Snoop

Many Russian officers thought when they switched to the Bolsheviks that the main thing was to serve Russia, and under what flag it was not so important.

My grandfather's brother put together the "First Cavalry Army" And my grandfather helped him, because... knew that the Cossacks Gen. Russians are mercilessly robbed(!) of their skins. So the officers of the imperial army gathered their fellow soldiers. Not to establish the power of the commissars, but for elementary order. Cavalrymen of 2 regiments lived near Tula, they formed the core of the future Cavalry. Somewhere towards the end of the 20s, the Bolsheviks “thanked” grandfather Alexei with a bullet in the back of the head. And where did the Bolshevik state disappear??? It went into the pockets of their grandchildren, such as Khodorkovsky, Gusinsky, etc., etc....

[soldier's grandson]

14 states came out against Russia in civil war, who did they support? They supported the white movement, hence the conclusion who was who’s enemy

[Tver]

The Americans always supported only Lenin. And by the 20th year they supplied the Reds in Siberia with everything they needed: from cartridges and Hotchkiss to stew and ammunition

[Hleb]

only Lenin? probably by chance Kolchak was visiting England, the USA...? you can equally ask everyone for what happened


(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!We still have World Cup gold!!!!!!I was really upset)))))

[Tver]

Accidentally!!! ... Exactly, that he was visiting! He received nothing (unlike the Reds). He was simply surrendered by the hands of his French allies and sent under the ice.

[Hleb]

OK. let him visit((
(while you were answering, we got hold of our second piece of gold today))) Minkov!!!)

[bubble82009]

there's no point in denying it. The tsarist generals themselves overthrew the tsar. feudalism has outlived its usefulness in Russia, and capitalism has not had time to develop. The weak power of Nicholas 2 hindered everyone.

[Starina_hank]

Perhaps the tsar prevented the shameless plunder of Russia and the Russian people?

[Evgeniy667b]

Disputes about whether primary white or red terror lead to nowhere. Everyone has their own reasons. There was a Kamyshlovsky district on the territory of the present Sverdlovsk region, where until 1918 the established elite and bearers of ideas close to the Bolsheviks peacefully coexisted. (Not criminal elements, as one might argue, just the poor, I wish for a better life. Isn’t that an analogy to the current times?) The first ones endured, but remained silent until the Czechoslovak corps caused an imbalance in the balance of power. Then they began to actively influence their opponents using the methods of the 90s. One was removed, another, families were slaughtered. And when white paramilitary forces also appeared, the process took on a massive scale. (Moreover, the whites subjected to force the families of not only the Red Army soldiers, but also those who sympathized with them) What could those who survived the repressions do? They went into the forests and on the territory of the county the foundations of a formation called the 1st Workers' and Peasants' Regiment arose, which received the name " Red Eagles". This regiment successfully beat (not alone, of course) those Votkinsk and Izhevsk units of Kolchak’s army, even under the command of Pepelyaev. They were driven away from Glazov. Naturally there was anger and intransigence! So think about who is who. And how is the situation different from the current one? And if even within the framework of this site we practically cannot come to any general idea regarding a way out of the situation, then what can we say about society as a whole?

[starshina wmf]

Yes, most of those who write here, if their ancestors were peasants under the tsar and would not be able to write. Well, as a last resort, they would write like my son, who will go to 1st grade.

[Standard Oil]

And not all whites fought for the Tsar, they rather fought not “for” but “against” communism, any fascist, democratic system, any as long as they weren’t communists. If some junkie and hangman Kolchak had won the war, he would have flooded the country with blood no worse than the communists, and maybe even better, who knows these stoned ones?

[Starina_hank]

I’ll probably reveal the secret that under the tsar there were more village schools than now, they were really one, two classrooms and (or) parish schools, but they were there and their number increased, and did not decrease as it is now! Study local history sources.

[Xoxoxnumxun]

Quote: Starshina wmf

and most of those who write here, if their ancestors were peasants under the tsar and would not be able to write. Well, as a last resort, they would write like my son, who will go to 1st grade.

This is already a template.

[Tver]

It’s funny to read about “...wouldn’t know how to write...” Menshikov (Peter’s assistant) was a vagabond (not even a peasant), but commanded the entire cavalry of the Empire (near Poltava)! The incapacitated tsar was removed in 1917 by General Alekseev, chief of the General Staff (his grandfather was a soldier). It’s just that by the year 17 it happened - a crisis of the monarchy, the social system, the nation itself... It’s interesting that peasants in the 20s understood the situation better than people with higher education in the 3rd millennium. When the security officers reached my ancestors, the peasants of Bogorodsky district hid the boy (my father) in their huts, passing them off as their child. When he grew up, he commanded his ship in the north with family luck. He ended the war in 1945 in New York, having led his sailors a victorious march in May. It is unlikely that a Russian soldier/sailor will march across America again. That is, maybe he will, but he will not be alive after that. Radiation will not allow it.... Why did the peasants risk their families? They had understanding! Why were the Germans so successful in '41? Because all division commanders were senior officers back in the First World War. And most of the regiment commanders were hereditary military men with a 400-500 year pedigree. In the end, we won, but at what cost? Huge layers of young people have been mowed down and now the country is in a demographic hole.

[Belogor]

Civil wars have always been distinguished by their cruelty. And finding out who shed more blood, whites or reds, is a futile task. Both sides excel in this. By the way, after the civil war the blood did not stop flowing.

[kapitan281271]

In a civil war, politicians and not generals always win. Kolchak could instantly turn the head of the Bolsheviks at once, but in exchange for a small concession to Manerheim, the autonomy of Finland as part of a federal state, Klchak said that he was not trading in the Motherland. It’s true that Lenin later gave Finland up completely, but is that interesting? Or he could have acted like the red-bellied people promised and didn’t deliver, hang him like the reds tried to do to Makhno. But this is politics, and generals are weak in politics. In general, the logic of how the Bolsheviks saved the country makes me smile. That’s why Emperor Joseph I killed them all later because these bastards had no concept of a homeland. And you’ll be good at fighting for the Reds, like a darling, if your woman and children are sitting in their first concentration camps and God forbid they suspect that you’re screwed. And about the fact that supposedly liberal historians are now. It is precisely the liberals who demonstrate the supposed inevitability of the revolution. Although here’s the strange thing: before Nikita’s asshole, in the history books it was called not a revolution, but an October coup. In general, there was no civil war; there was betrayal of the allies and aggression from outside. At the time of its formation, the so-called Red Guard numbered up to three hundred thousand people, and when you read the composition in the documents, it’s amazing to see Croats, Turks, Germans, Romanians, Latvians, Chinese (I always wondered where these bastards came from) that’s who cared so much for the fate of the Russian people.
Yes, by the way, the Germans may not have been involved in this action of 1917, either they were used in the dark or their interests converged. When Yudenich broke the head of the Turks, the path to Canstantinople was open, and according to preliminary agreements, after the victory, the straits, along with Constantinople, were to go to Russia. Here a secret meeting of the English parliament took place, because the foggy Albion did not see a greater danger than an open exit to the Mediterranean of Russia. And in Petrograd, by the magic of Pavlova, sabotage began on the railway with the supply of food. Everyone knows the next rock and roll.

[pensioner]

It seems that Shulgin (I’m not very sure, but one of the founders of the white movement is definitely) said: “The Whites started the civil war almost like saints. And they ended it almost like robbers. And the Reds started this war almost like robbers.” And they finished it almost like saints!” And this was said by one of the founders of the white movement.

[Tver]

There was such a maxim (said abroad). And she treated Ataman Semenov (if I’m not mistaken) - he was very fierce. His victims were not counted in the thousands, but he specifically disgraced his people. And about the Reds - a masterpiece!!! You can’t imagine such a thing even in a drunken delirium! After the evacuation from Crimea, over one hundred thousand people were shot; officers, members of their families, high school students, etc... Although maybe the bloody sacrifices made the executioners “saints”. After all, they believed in something? Just name them and your god. For whose sake were former officials and monks drowned in barges?

[pensioner]

Quote: Tver

For whose sake were former officials and monks drowned in barges?

Well, the red ones were also buried up to their necks in the ground and the dogs were released. Is it more humane? And they flew into space, built nuclear power plants and taught people to read and write - the Reds. The Reds also came up with GOERLO. And in Rus' they knew how to commit atrocities at all times. We had never heard of either red or white, but they burned people in barns regularly... Yes, they knew how to do a lot of other things with the human body...

[Tver]

There is elderberry in the garden... I am for space and energy, but I am against justifying the murderers of the Russian people. For some reason, the Americans were also in space and did not kill their compatriots and paid workers and farmers. True, in one thing they are similar to you - they consider themselves saints.

[Letterksi]

I am also against the murderers of the Russian people, both white and red. And even more against the invasion of the international from the east and west and the fueling of Russian fratricide

Do you really think that the Americans did not kill their compatriots? But what about a citizen of the south with the north of the 19th century? It was the amers who invented concentration camps in those days. And read this

http://sapiens.by/v-period-velikoj-depressii-v-ssha-ot-goloda-umerli-bolee-7-mil
lionov-chelovek

Do not justify the very first and bloodiest murderers of the Russian people, which are the Americans. without them we can always come to an agreement without bloodshed

[Tver]

No, no, I’m not talking about the American Civil War. They simply crossed certain socio-economic levels without fratricidal shooting. And civil strife itself is almost inevitable for any developed country. I’m not whitewashing them (the Amers), but I’m not demonizing them either. I consider them natural rivals of Russia, just like the British were in the 19th century.

[bagpipe]

this material is like another small step towards fooling the people, “turning back”, from a free person into a scoop, into a herd, into a weed without clan and honor.

[SAM0SA]

Quote: volynyaka

this material is like another small step towards fooling the people, “turning back”, from a free person into a scoop, into a herd, into a weed without clan and honor.

What does the USSR have to do with it? In my youth, if the enemy fell in a fight, they did not trample underfoot, marriages were concluded before bed. About family and honor- in the USSR there was clearly more of this, but the weeds began to grow after that, and we all live on the Soviet reserve and a pipe that should actually be of the people and work for the country, and not for whoever...
ARTICLE - PLUS

[bagpipe]

Dear, I’m probably still young, my student years were in the late 80s, collapse, evildoers, queues for everything except seaweed, thieves, crooks and lawlessness on the streets, courtyards and entrances, fear of being robbed, beaten or killed just like that , angry people on the streets, on buses and subways, kravchuchki, bazaars, thimble shops ... would you like to feel nostalgic for this? evil people - they humiliate and quickly turn a person into “race and honor”; in any case, I certainly didn’t see that in that decade. Yes, compared to such a “scoop”, we now live in order. relative)))
There were a lot of good things with the USSR, but the time has come. No better, no worse - it’s just that a different time has come and the country and countries were simply forced to become different. otherwise, compared to the rest of the world, we would now look like North Koreans.

[lexe]

I think the orderer of terror on the part of the interventionists was one of the founders of Soviet power - Trotsky


World War 1 was still going on and the complete occupation of Russia by one of the warring parties was not possible. The Entente saw itself as the victorious side and did not want to share the laurels of victory with its former ally. Germany was interested in weakening Russia.
So the new Soviet Russia was in the hands of almost everyone except the Russian people themselves.
And the two agents Trotsky and Lenin, figuratively like two incarnations of a trader on the stock exchange... a bull-bear, played their game with the “Western partners.”
Drawing German troops into our territory was a priority task of the General Staff of France and England.

“I will not be mistaken if I say,” American General William Sidney Greves, an eyewitness to those events, later admitted, “that for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were 100 people killed by anti-Bolshevik elements.”

The new government was so small in personnel-that the people had a vague idea of ​​its goals and objectives. The orchestrated terror helped to understand on an instinctive level that it was necessary to fight the invaders and invaders. And it is best to do this in the Red Army.
And at all times, it is not the indigenous peoples who best sow merciless discord. There were international units on all sides of the conflict. In addition, we must add a contingent with an anarchic flavor - outright criminals.
So the new Soviet government, with the slogan “Down with war,” did everything to spark a new war, using its numerous international connections.
By the way, in the white movement these “Bolshevik” connections were also numerous. But the majority of the whites did not respect the Western allies. Only there were problems with weapons...

It would be good to think about these words for those who today admire the “patriotism” and “dedication” of the white movement, which supposedly, in contrast to the Red Army, defended the interests of “Great Russia”.

The deepest interests of the West were precisely on the side of the Soviet government. After all, one of the leaders was their protege, Trotsky.
If there had been no White movement, the Russian people and the entire empire, which was built over centuries, would be worthless.
The white movement just confirms the fact that before Russia did not stand on feet of clay, in human terms.
Yes, the White movement in its form was doomed to defeat.
But those who used whites for their own purposes missed one important point...
Fury and desire to go to the end - in defending the deep interests of the Russian people with complete self-sacrifice. This remains in the memory of the Russian people...
And the article aims to sharpen this memory.
But there are examples of noble treatment of prisoners, right?
And the Russian people in the red army were defeated by the Russian people in the white army.
Amazed by what? - Spirit!
And this spirit materialized decades later.
But those who want to ride on the Russian mountain have appeared again. Only the situation and the roles have changed. The role of the white 1917 is played by the red 1991.
It's just that the difference is significant...

[Alexander Brednikov]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Db7gfX1X0AAXmNB.jpg:large

[Ravest]

They started demagoguery here, but didn’t say the essence! The Bolsheviks were for socialism, this is when a people's plant, the profits from which go to the country's budget and are distributed for social programs!!! and not into the pocket of the oligarch owner, to buy a yacht or a football club!!!!! Any worker knew this!!!! That's why he defended socialism!!! NOW THE FACTORY IS PRIVATE, THE PROFIT GOES TO THE OWNER'S POCKET, and the worker has simply become hired, and he has nothing from the profit from the factory! That’s why social programs are being cut because there is nothing to support these programs!! There are not enough taxes!

[Ravest]

The Bolsheviks did not need a civil war; they gained power by creating the Socialist Revolutionary-Menshevik-Bolshevik government! They printed decrees, for example, the Decree on pregnancy and childbirth was adopted in December 1917, they are still called that - maternity leave from maternity leave! What the Western partners didn’t like was the nationalization of their property in Russia; Rothschold and the Nobel Brothers could not come to terms with the fact that the Baku oil and gas fields no longer belonged to them!! Here is the key to the start of the civil war!! They began to incite the Czechoslovak Corps, and they themselves landed in Arkhangelsk, Baku, Vladivostok! In fact, it was because of them that the civil war began!!