Military Review

Thanks to parents for such a son!

57
Edward Snowden. Question: "Who has not heard this name today?" Answer: "Unless only he who can read and is unable to hear." He lived for himself in the service of the sovereign (read - ANBvskoy), a modest fellow of slender physique, but powerful analytical skills, thanks to which he had access to information of exceptional importance. And so, having plunged into the abyss of this important information, an idealist analyst, who saw his mission in the earnest service of his only (in the world, he thought) democratic country, which (again in his understanding) was the strongest defense and even in the school, the idealist parents spoke, and the same, inspired) the values ​​bestowed by God and the government of the country, suddenly discovers that all this destructive information is not completely obtained by decent methods and is far from being used to protect, chanted and hammered in Tin ordinary Americans, ideals, and directed to the organization of blackmail and to sow in this world of chaos, destruction and suspicion.


Thanks to parents for such a son!


What do the appalled idealist analyst do? Another would simply accept the fact with which he faced and would find an excuse in the form of ordinary reasoning on the topic that he was assigned a certain job, and he should do it, and then the grass did not grow. So many and many did before him, and so it could happen this time. But by the providence and the course of the World Stories this ordinary case was prepared for the role of the BOMB! Bombs information. Our analyst, having seen all the secrets of the extracted information and methods of its use, was kindled with anger, like a normal, morally healthy idealist. But he did not take into account that the morally healthy sense of adherence to ideals and their defense are not honored by those bosses who equipped him for unclean things. That is, E. Snowden (and, you guessed it, it was he) felt the collapse of those ideals that were inspired to him by the entire state machine of the country, which he had previously considered to be immaculate Deva Mary and Mother Teresa in one person.

And again, the gifted analyst and the incorrigible idealist acted against every cliché and predictable situations - he decided to put all this “dirty underwear” on public display so that those who washed this “muddied” underwhelm, covered with shame and went on the way of correction. Here he is - wrong. Those whom this information concerned directly, and whom she could incinerate, like the rays of the rising sun burning vampires, were not at all ashamed of their not righteous deeds, but decided to hide this rebel and idealist away from the eyes of men and their worldwide disgrace.

Well, then we all know how all the subsequent events developed - Snowden, thanks to the Chinese, successfully escaped from one country, passed through another and found himself at the airport of the third - Russia.

All subsequent events after this are worthy of writing to the most talented writers of the detective genre, and I think this will happen in the near future, but I would like to focus on the two most significant moments of this epic, which is already included in the annals of the struggle of special services called “Snowwood -gate ”, this is the first thing - the scenery about complete mutual understanding and mutual disinterestedness of the participants of one military-political bloc - NATO collapsed. And - the second - a fluent idealist analyst handed over to the President of Russia such a powerful weaponwhich can give him (Putin) indescribable advantages for a certain time period, which one could only dream of. Skeptics can shrug - “What can it give?”. Believe me, judging by the information and current events, already gives.

One of the indicators could be the confusion that the American administration is experiencing, the different vector of proposals for a possible response to the Russian demarche to provide Snowden with shelter and those hysterical speeches of the most radical American politicians.

But, this is what catches the eye offhand. There are other examples of the failure of the seemingly well-functioning mechanism of interaction between NATO member countries. This and all kinds of claims of the European governments to the United States, this and mutual accusations of the special services and the refusal of further cooperation on the same principles, this and the urgent reform and reshuffling of the NSA of its structure and its staff. And this bears the inevitable material costs.

But that's not all. According to the information sources, the recent closure of US embassies in a number of countries for a period of time is the same result of the information that fell into Putin’s hands, and which could be revengefully injected by him in response to the already American demarche of Obama’s refusal to meet with Putin. It’s ridiculous, of course, but American analysts, political scientists and strategists thought that for Putin, Barak’s refusal to meet him would be such an astounding blow that Putin would certainly start tearing his hair, would fall to his knees and readily give out a runaway ANBShnik. In general, such a move by Obama was bound to paralyze the will of the Russian President or to induce him to do good things in the form of promulgation of materials received from Snowden. So far away from sin they decided to temporarily cover their embassies.

From all this it can be seen that the information that Snowden still shared with the Russian special services (I would like to hope so) is so important and so disreputable to the Americans that it causes not passing jitter and nervous excitement. It is expensive.

One person had a collapse of his idealistic notions, he saw that those who constantly talk about the observance of human rights themselves violate these rights every day and nightly and that behind the white-toothed American smile lies an animal, jackal grin. But, unlike many of his predecessors and by virtue of his upbringing and his ideals, he decided to reveal the revealed facts, knowing that he wouldn’t be patted for it and that he might have to go running. The good examples of the attempts to arrest Assange and the trial with a life-long conviction of Maning are obvious.

This is an act. And the willingness to commit acts, most often, the child is laid in the family. And not every parent in America FAST America is ready to raise such readiness with his child. It’s good that Edward’s deed filled up the treasury of the capabilities of the President of Russia. It’s for the fact that Edward Snowden’s parents were able to raise with their son, even if idealistic, the idea of ​​justice and the readiness to fight for it - thank you very much!
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  1. Very old
    Very old 13 August 2013 05: 59 New
    11
    ESAUL: “This is an act.” It happens that a person wakes up, opens his eyes and says to himself: I can’t be silent
    1. Hauptmann emil
      Hauptmann emil 13 August 2013 07: 32 New
      -4
      Whatever they say, but from the point of view of the United States, he is a traitor. And I agree with this definition. I think many will agree with me. After all, if we had the same Snowden-Pupkin, but if we just ran away from us in the USA we would all call him a traitor (dissident, defector, etc.). Therefore, for me, this is a man who violated the oath of his country. And if such a truth. That could divulge it within the country by attracting a large number of media. And he first ran away, and then began to "expose". But in fact, he probably divulged the secret.
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 13 August 2013 09: 24 New
        12
        Not worth arguing for everyone. You are too self-confident, If the power in my country does nasty things, if it does not give a damn about its citizens, then I will never call a traitor a person who has opened eyes to society with such power. If you do not care who runs the country, who makes and passes laws, then I don’t, and therefore I think one hundred Snowden, a strong man, spiritually strong. He perfectly understood what this threatens him with, and yet he consciously decided to take such a step. I’m not sure that those who criticize him could repeat this. The spirit would not be enough.
        1. domokl
          domokl 13 August 2013 10: 29 New
          -3
          Quote: vladsolo56
          If the authorities in my country do nasty things, if they don’t give a damn about their citizens, then I will never call a traitor a person who has opened his eyes to society with such authority

          Here's how ... And what is your attitude to the FSB General Kalugin? To Rezun, to dozens of other reshufflers? It was in the interview that they discovered the facts for which you praise the American. Only it was unpleasant for us.
          You know this as a child. If our hero is in their rear, a scout. If we have them, we’re a bastard spy. laughing
          1. vladsolo56
            vladsolo56 13 August 2013 10: 41 New
            +8
            Do not confuse God's gift with a fried egg, dear, all of whom you listed not only discovered a certain truth about the work of the KGB, they leaked the enemy agents, declassified ciphers and codes. Whom did Snowden merge? so leave your statements with you.
            Those who left for the United States and did not betray anyone did not betray agents, did not harm the country's security, never called such traitors, well, they left and let them like to live there. There will be more space here.
            1. Far East
              Far East 13 August 2013 12: 11 New
              +4
              Quote: vladsolo56
              There will be more space here.

              good good good Exactly!!!!!!!!!!
          2. olviko
            olviko 13 August 2013 10: 56 New
            +4
            The answer to your questions is simple, it all depends on WHO YOU are for? There is nothing special to argue about here, we are our opponents - Americans are certainly among them. Everything else, including a scout - a hero or a bastard spy - is already a reflection of a person’s position, with whom is he?
          3. biglow
            biglow 13 August 2013 13: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: domokl
            Quote: vladsolo56
            If the authorities in my country do nasty things, if they don’t give a damn about their citizens, then I will never call a traitor a person who has opened his eyes to society with such authority

            Here's how ... And what is your attitude to the FSB General Kalugin? To Rezun, to dozens of other reshufflers? It was in the interview that they discovered the facts for which you praise the American. Only it was unpleasant for us.
            You know this as a child. If our hero is in their rear, a scout. If we have them, we’re a bastard spy. laughing

            Snowden is exactly the same patriot and patriot of America, and the fact that his country has ceased to be a bulwark of freedom and monitors its own citizens and prompted him to what he did
        2. slava7075
          slava7075 13 August 2013 12: 30 New
          +3
          There have always been such idealists in America. Maybe thanks to such people we got secrets on nuclear weapons. And the scientist Tesla also shared important information by information. In general, in my opinion, only ideological people can open the most important secrets.
        3. Hauptmann emil
          Hauptmann emil 13 August 2013 13: 41 New
          -1
          Quote: vladsolo56
          Not worth arguing for everyone. You are too self-confident, If the power in my country does nasty things, if it does not give a damn about its citizens, then I will never call a traitor a person who has opened eyes to society with such power. If you do not care who runs the country, who makes and passes laws, then I don’t, and therefore I think one hundred Snowden, a strong man, spiritually strong. He perfectly understood what this threatens him with, and yet he consciously decided to take such a step. I’m not sure that those who criticize him could repeat this. The spirit would not be enough.

          I already kind of wrote
          Quote: Hauptmann Emil
          And if such a truth. That could divulge it within the country by attracting a large number of media. And he first ran away, and then began to "expose". But in fact, he probably divulged the secret.

          And the question is specifically for you vladsolo56
          How do you feel about the fact that the former chairman of the government of the Russian Federation (who had access to information constituting state secrets in the form of “documents of special importance (with three zeros)) travels to the United States and pours dirt on Russia, while he does not hide the fact that he is a“ consultant ”to the State Department?
      2. Max otto
        Max otto 13 August 2013 09: 45 New
        +5
        Quote: Hauptmann Emil
        Whatever they say, but from the point of view of the United States, he is a traitor. And I agree with this definition. I think many will agree with me. After all, if we had the same Snowden-Pupkin, but if we just ran away from us in the USA we would all call him a traitor (dissident, defector, etc.). Therefore, for me, this is a man who violated the oath of his country. And if such a truth. That could divulge it within the country by attracting a large number of media. And he first ran away, and then began to "expose". But in fact, he probably divulged the secret.

        Of course, it was all right, and so it was necessary to do so, but the kid, knowing the scale of the penetration of special services into civilian life, made a decision that allowed him to stay alive at least, because he was sure that he would not be able to collect any conference for anything in the necessary period of time. or something like that. He is in the know who is watching whom and the reaction rate to the information received is also presented. So not everything is clear here.
      3. Val_y
        Val_y 13 August 2013 11: 08 New
        +1
        Not the United States, but the NSA - these are different concepts, the NSA monitors compliance with the corporate interests of the Rodschilds, Rockefellers, Fords, etc., and the United States, this is an incomprehensible formation with an unusually powerful army and most importantly the national guard (think about why so many planes, tanks , helicopters and nuclear weapons within the country) for - I emphasize compliance with corporate interests.
      4. Andrey Skokovsky
        Andrey Skokovsky 13 August 2013 13: 48 New
        +3
        Quote: Hauptmann Emil
        Whatever they say, but from the point of view of the United States, he is a traitor. And I agree with this definition. I think many will agree with me. After all, if we had the same Snowden-Pupkin, but if we just ran away from us in the USA we would all call him a traitor (dissident, defector, etc.). Therefore, for me, this is a man who violated the oath of his country. And if such a truth. That could divulge it within the country by attracting a large number of media. And he first ran away, and then began to "expose". But in fact, he probably divulged the secret.


        I generally have the impression that Snowden is an entirely American project, says too much for it
        part of the less peace-loving amers, frightened by the dynamics of unleashing the war by hawks, just in this way slowed down the US warriors
        Having understood the situation, Russia correctly connected to this operation as much as possible and supported the process of world-wide compromise of warriors,
        in the same way, China could find itself in the place of Russia, but apparently

        so who is really Snowden at the end and it’s not important, but the public opinion and the differences that he created
      5. Ivan.
        Ivan. 13 August 2013 17: 15 New
        -3
        Quote: Hauptmann Emil
        Whatever they say, but from the point of view of the United States, he is a traitor. And I agree with this definition

        From the point of view of a normal person - you are a traitor and you agree with you. Evil should not be legal, because the work of their special services is directed not only against other peoples, but also against their own in the first place. By protecting them, you put yourself in an unsightly position, from your point of view, a citizen of any European country including Germany who turned to the USSR during the Second World War with a request for protection and provided some information is a traitor because the same legitimate governments and special services functioned there. To compare Snowden with Kaluginytm is not to be friends with the head: one acted for the sake of his country opposing total control and exposing the lying methods of their special services and the other who left his homeland for the sake of another while earning on the betrayal of a known residence. If from our country, someone who had exposed the criminal methods of some services (directed against the people), fled to another country due to the danger to his life, I would say a patriot, but you could have kept silent in a rag and enjoyed life. If you are led to a slander and then forced to carry out illegal actions, what would you choose: to obey the letter of the oath or its spirit? When the interests of the people and the government diverge, what do you choose? Efficiency and calmness judging by your comment.
        1. Hauptmann emil
          Hauptmann emil 13 August 2013 23: 56 New
          +2
          You called me a traitor. On the basis of what did you draw such conclusions and call (insult) a traitor?
          Any citizen who has sworn allegiance to his homeland (as it were called) takes upon itself obligations. One of them does not disclose information constituting state secrets. Snowden divulged is at least a criminal article (in the Russian Federation at least). And to everything else he fled from the country and began to disclose this very secret information (it doesn’t matter what kind of character, for example, the Criminal Code does not divide them into socially important and special (R&D, etc.)). As a result, according to our laws, for example, Snowden is a criminal, and since he still harmed the country, he is a traitor (see Article 275 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation). And before you call names to insult other forum users with your labels, think about it. If this works out.
          1. Ivan.
            Ivan. 14 August 2013 01: 19 New
            -2
            Quote: Hauptmann Emil
            On the basis of what did you draw such conclusions and call (insult) a traitor?


            Now I read the oath of sample 1998.
            “I, (surname, name, patronymic), solemnly swear allegiance to my Fatherland - the Russian Federation. I swear to observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation, strictly comply with the requirements of military regulations, orders of commanders and commanders. I swear to fulfill military duty with dignity, courageously defend the freedom, independence and constitutional system of Russia, the people and the Fatherland ”

            it is something flawed, the “I” begins - who am I? Previously, “I” was a citizen of the country, to defend “freedom” - what freedom? "Independence" - the country is obviously dependent and it is even known from whom, "to protect the constitutional order" - and what is our system? I can’t imagine what kind of system we have. The oath must be "protection from internal and external enemies" - what is the internal enemy, I hope you understand. This oath is probably, like the laws were written by the State Department and I do not intend to comply with them. These oaths protect the government and power, the people in them are only mentioned, for visibility. Regardless of any oaths, each man and woman must defend their homeland because it is ours and not governments and we have no other. You called Snowden a traitor because he betrayed the government by betraying and oppressing his people, you said more emotionally, like: the bunker itself than thinking (for which I apologize). However, you did not answer the questions:
            "If you are sworn in and then forced to take illegal actions, what would you choose: to obey the letter of the oath or its spirit? When the interests of the people and the government diverge, what do you choose?"
            The oath in its current form is more like a subscription, they say signed, if that we have the right to punish you.
            Any citizen who has sworn allegiance to his homeland (as it were called) takes upon itself obligations
            In fact, he doesn’t take it, but they impose it on him, it reminds of the so-called "standard" agreements on gas, electricity, water supply where everyone has the right to sign and there is no point in reading ambiguous points anyway there is no choice. Secondly, if the authorities (government) violates the rights of citizens? For example, the demolition of towers in the United States for the adoption of the "necessary" laws and intervention in Afghanistan. By publicizing the criminal actions of his government, he defended his people but violated orders and subscriptions. I’m not going to consider a traitor a man who cares more about the security of his own people than violating the order of people who seized power and it’s very bad that you think otherwise. If Russia will think so many chances are not, waiting for a good king ... is suicidal.
            1. Hauptmann emil
              Hauptmann emil 15 August 2013 13: 11 New
              0
              And yet I did not see the answer to my question. Based on what did you call me a traitor?
              1. Ivan.
                Ivan. 15 August 2013 17: 13 New
                0
                Mr. Hauptmann Emil, I answered your question with my no, so think, “If possible.” Nothing more to talk with you about
                , with a person
                calling a traitor to a person who did not want to betray his people, without any reason. I suppose that, for ideological reasons, who crossed the front line and began to cooperate with the "enemy army", you would probably call it the same. If you so respect the laws where you were in 1991 when a great country was destroyed, it is good if you were still small. A real vow can only be before God and conscience; everything else is solemn, legally binding opus. I will not answer.
  2. domokl
    domokl 13 August 2013 06: 18 New
    -4
    Alas, I fundamentally disagree with Valery. The idealist boy whom he praises in the article is nothing more than an ordinary traitor. No matter whom he betrayed, the fact itself is important. The same were in our special services.
    Talking about some kind of information that is completely unknown to us is also not worth it. There are some specific facts, but the overall picture from his statements has not changed much. Do we really not know that the special services listen to phones and control computers? Yes, watch any movie. Are we not We know that intelligence works not only in the camp of the enemy?
    To stop the incursions on me for opponents, I advise-change the name of Snowden to Kalugin and start arguing ...
    1. Blackscorp
      Blackscorp 13 August 2013 07: 59 New
      +2
      I agree with you that Snowden, in fact, is a traitor, and if he were a Russian citizen, we would call him that ... but the motives for his act can be different ... they can be idialistic, as in the article, or it can be commonplace, well, for example, it’s stupid to become famous, release a book and all that, as is customary in the USA (there are many examples) ...

      Quote: domokl
      Talking about some kind of information that is completely unknown to us is also not worth it. There are some concrete facts, but the overall picture from his statements has not changed much. Do we really not know that special services listen to phones and control computers?


      Here I can’t agree with you ... yes, I know everything about wiretapping, etc. but it seems to me that this is only the tip of the iceberg, first of all, they tell us that, in principle, it’s not some kind of special secret, and nobody will ever disclose all the most important information that it can merge, it will simply be taken into account where it should be and they would use it. And if he only knew what he was saying openly, the USA would not piss boiling water over it ... And secondly, he opened the whole scale of wiretapping, where it is clear that the amers are listening to their opponents and their allies, and in general everyone and the whole mechanism of this business .. it’s one thing to know and think about something, but another thing when it is specifically confirmed ... These are two big differences ...
    2. My address
      My address 13 August 2013 08: 01 New
      +5
      And I want us to have more idealists. As a counterweight practical. They are hard, but because a lot of divorced very practical. And they are so practical in their favor that they are so deceiving everyone that they themselves are deceived and the country is deceived. We have a bit too much deception from top to bottom. In groups usually trust idealists and do not like very practical. If the team is not spoiled by practicality.
      Comparison of Snowden with Kalugin is not entirely correct, Snowden did not sell colleagues. Although it makes sense to wait for the development of events that offers serge-68-68 /
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 09: 02 New
      +8
      Quote: domokl
      M. The idealistic boy whom he praises in the article is nothing more than an ordinary traitor.

      Hi Sanya! And whom did he betray? A state that did not give a damn about the laws of the country of its own, but here they also call one a traitor, who showed the whole world how people were shot from a turntable in Iraq. It can be judged differently, but only those who are telling the truth and the murderers were threatened with a finger.
      1. domokl
        domokl 13 August 2013 10: 26 New
        -5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And whom did he betray? A state that does not care about the laws of its own country

        Hi. And what is betrayal? He betrayed just like betrayed Rezun or Kalugin. And many more of the same.
        You understand that the observance of laws for special services is arbitrary. In any country. And he is an employee of the special services. Russian general Kalugin also escaped from a state where laws are not respected or not respected. Why aren’t you talking about him the same way?
        It’s always funny for us ... In any cop series, they show, without hiding, that a drunk employee fears nothing and leaves the road, faculty robbing more than real robbers, and once in the zone a person is deprived of all rights.
        And is this, in your opinion, a reason for betrayal? Vlasovites during the Second World War also avenged their dispossessed, repressed, robbed parents. Will you justify them too?
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 10: 39 New
          +7
          Quote: domokl
          During the Second World War, Vlasovites also avenged their dispossessed, repressed, and robbed parents. Will you justify them too?

          No, comparisons do not roll at all.
        2. Z.A.M.
          Z.A.M. 14 August 2013 09: 06 New
          -1
          domokl
          Quote: domokl
          And what is betrayal? He betrayed just like betrayed Rezun or Kalugin. And many more such.

          I shake hands with you, and completely agree.
    4. fzr1000
      fzr1000 13 August 2013 12: 21 New
      +4
      And the Wehrmacht officers recruited by our intelligence in Berlin, who do you think they are? Traitors or people with a conscience?
      And the Jewish scientists who passed the Soviet Union in America data on atomic weapons? Who are they?
      Pretty thin line ...
      1. Ivan.
        Ivan. 13 August 2013 17: 38 New
        0
        Quote: fzr1000
        Pretty thin line ...

        She is very thick, but invisible because it is a motivation and you can judge her carefully and by external signs.
  3. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 13 August 2013 06: 52 New
    10
    I believe that while you should wait, Snowden should hang the medal and pull on the stake. You need to see what kind of bird - how it will fly. To the author of the article - you can’t imagine how many Russian people the word “Snowden” means ANYTHING. Most do not care, they have more pressing problems.
    1. dirty trick
      dirty trick 13 August 2013 07: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: serge-68-68
      To the author of the article - you can’t imagine how many Russian people the word “Snowden” means ANYTHING. Most do not care, they have more pressing problems

      + dear! but Vladimir Vladimirovich didn’t really care about them either - Snowden was given a document allowing him to remain in Russia for 1 year and that’s all.
      1. Blackscorp
        Blackscorp 13 August 2013 08: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: dirty trick
        and Vladimir Vladimirovich did not really care about them - Snowden was given a document allowing him to stay in Russia for 1 year and that’s all.


        Do not understand the actions of leadership so literally, look at the root ...
      2. Z.A.M.
        Z.A.M. 13 August 2013 09: 55 New
        -4
        Quote: dirty trick
        + dear! but Vladimir Vladimirovich didn’t really care about him

        Putin simply had nothing else to do - just like in chess, he had to make a move ... He didn’t - NOTHING (but made a move) Although I do not respect and do not believe him (for me he is a traitor), but here is a classic, five points. Once again I will say - to him would be the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia, every day we would laugh at the world. But this is not the point - to laugh ...

        Quote: domokl
        Alas, I fundamentally disagree with Valery. The idealistic boy whom he sings in the article is nothing but ordinary traitor.
        Totally agree! P R E D A T E L , for all nations and peoples - AND D .

        Article minus like E S A U L U. I read the title of the article, the first paragraph and ... I wanted to know the authorship. Was amazed...

        E S A U L, a traitor, and he is a traitor, Snowden, he is, and then: ... do you not know the list of “human rights defenders” of the USSR and Russia?
        1. fzr1000
          fzr1000 13 August 2013 12: 25 New
          +1
          I completely agree! PREDATEL, for all nations and peoples - I U D A.


          Indians or Majori what-what kind of business is Snowden? Bust in the assessment.
  4. pensioner
    pensioner 13 August 2013 07: 10 New
    +5
    political scientists and strategists imagined that for Putin, Barak’s refusal to meet with him would be such a stunning blow that Putin would certainly begin to tear his hair off his head, fall to his knees and readily betray the fugitive ANShnik. In general, such a step by Obama was bound to paralyze the will of the Russian President or encourage him to do bad things in the form of publishing parts received from Snowden of materials.
    It’s a little bad they’ve studied Putin for so many years. Analysts damn it.
    1. Dangerous
      Dangerous 13 August 2013 07: 42 New
      -8
      On the days of the anniversary of the August tragedy, the name Putin calls only this association:
      1. dirty trick
        dirty trick 13 August 2013 07: 52 New
        +7
        But what was the chief commander of the Russian armed forces to answer the no less boorish question of a representative of a foreign country (especially the United States)?
        The most appropriate answer, of course, is “none of your business” and Putin’s answer is the closest option to him!
        1. Dangerous
          Dangerous 13 August 2013 08: 08 New
          +1
          I strongly doubt that if this question were asked to the widows of the deceased submariners, they said with the same joy on their faces - they drowned!
          PS - for what we minus, gentlemen comrades? It's kind of real footage, not a fantastic comedy ...
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 10: 42 New
            +5
            Quote: Dangerous
            PS - for what we minus, gentlemen comrades?

            Over brick in Putin is not the case.
          2. vel77
            vel77 13 August 2013 13: 05 New
            +1
            Firstly, these people, submariners of Kursk, military people, they knew what they were going for, it was their job.
        2. ded10041948
          ded10041948 13 August 2013 08: 21 New
          -3
          At least do not smile condescendingly! This blasphemy towards the dead, as well as all the lies that official representatives broadcast from the screens during the first days after the tragedy!
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 12: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: ded10041948
            This blasphemy towards the dead, as well as all the lies that official representatives broadcast from the screens during the first days after the tragedy!

            And how would you answer him, if the whole world knew what happened to Kursk, briefly and clearly for a stupid one, she drowned. This question is a mockery against the background of rumors that an American submarine is related to the death of Kursk. So he showed blasphemy?
            1. ded10041948
              ded10041948 13 August 2013 20: 48 New
              +1
              This is not about the meaning of the answer, but about the form! In such a tone and with such a condescending smirk, the chef of a nasty cafe can answer the question: "What happened to the chicken that ran around the yard?" “Soup was cooked from it!”, But not to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief to the question (albeit stupidly provocative!) About the fate of the warship and its crew!
              Keep on minus! (Just look at the record again first!)
      2. Hauptmann emil
        Hauptmann emil 13 August 2013 07: 55 New
        +6
        And here it is? I agree, this is a tragedy, there is no TRAGEDY. But in this case, recalling this while commenting on the above article is not appropriate. IMHO.
        1. Dangerous
          Dangerous 13 August 2013 08: 05 New
          -6
          And despite the fact that even here they ignored the events of 13 years ago, although they could honor the dead submariners. And that would be much more correct than writing about some American defector
    2. serge-68-68
      serge-68-68 13 August 2013 08: 33 New
      0
      They imagined nothing. To date, the United States has few safe levers of influence on Russia (safe for the United States, they can be double-edged levers). So the pause was taken - to think, to calculate + and - the use of more stringent measures.
  5. pensioner
    pensioner 13 August 2013 07: 21 New
    +4
    Thanks to Valera for the article.
    But I can’t get rid of the feeling that it’s possible and not for the good of all these secrets revealed by Snowden. It’s not good for anyone. Big politics does not like noise. If this is not a war of course. “I know that you know that I know ...” - this is how politicians communicate.
    the scenery of complete mutual understanding and mutual disinterestedness of the participants of one military-political bloc - NATO collapsed. - Well, maybe all sorts of Bulgaria and Romanians collapsed ... But such burnt ones as France, England, Germany - didn’t they know who they contacted, or what? Yes, they knew perfectly. And there were no illusions. And the fact that the noise is coming now is not for long. They make noise, make noise and calm down. They will take an even more comfortable pose for amers. The habit is already, however ... Although Snowden himself (I do not exclude it) is an honest, courageous person. A son that parents can be proud of.
    1. Ivan.
      Ivan. 13 August 2013 17: 57 New
      0
      Quote: retired
      well, maybe all sorts of bulgarians and romanians have collapsed ... But such burnt ones as France, England, Germany - didn’t they know who they contacted, or what? Yes, they knew perfectly. And there were no illusions. And the fact that the noise is coming now is not for long. They make noise, make noise and calm down.

      Snowden with his information is just a policy tool, the point is not that it was not known, but that they could not be used with impunity or authoritatively. Now the countries under control have received a tool with which you can kick out, the peoples are an extra warning about the impending globalization.
  6. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 13 August 2013 07: 31 New
    +4
    There is no need to rush to conclusions, but we learned a lot of interesting things about their special services, but our respective authorities knew all this! And it's too early to hang a stigma on an honest person. Who did he betray? Those who organized total surveillance of their people, to whom they are obliged to serve, who violate the basic law of the USA! In fact, these figures from the NSA and the CIA must be called traitors - they betrayed their people and serve a bunch of villains trying to enslave the world, dreaming of creating a "new world order" and the “golden billion.” The boy made his choice, and this is his choice! And something smelled like the stench of the servants of these modern Gestapo men.
  7. Xoxoxnumxun
    Xoxoxnumxun 13 August 2013 07: 50 New
    +5
    Quote: domokl
    There are some specific facts, but the overall picture from his statements has not changed much. Do we really not know that special services listen to phones and control computers? Yes, watch any movie. Do we really not know that intelligence works not only in the enemy’s camp?

    I do not quite agree. You see, everyone understands that everyone is watching everyone. But when you receive information from an illegal immigrant, then ooooo very rarely, you can make it public. In most cases, this infa remains for the internal use of special services and related organizations. And when such an “idealist” traitor arrives, the country receives a strong information weapon. And they start shamelessly using this information baton - otherwise nothing.
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 13 August 2013 09: 56 New
      0
      Very true, sometimes it’s even impossible to take measures, to counteract it you can calculate an informant, that is, two people had access to information, and it is no longer difficult to calculate a traitor in case of publicity. And then yes, I don’t want to disclose. Stirlitz will calmly say - "Buddy Müller, get out of me, it's all Snowden."
  8. crazy_fencer
    crazy_fencer 13 August 2013 08: 12 New
    +2
    I completely agree with what domokl writes. A traitor remains a traitor everywhere, in Russia, in the USA, in Burundi. Moreover, we believe that we will never know the real value of information, and it is not necessary. As for idealism, it’s ridiculous almost indecently. Well, what could be the ideals in the special services? If there were any, then the same Snowden, even during the initial training at the CIA’s "farm", should have been removed with their roots.
    But ... That's what the thought arises. Is this a betrayal, or another setup (excuse me, operational development) by the CIA / NSA? A lot of hype. In general, I almost immediately suspected that all this mouse fuss with Snowden was nothing more than a provocation. Aimed at another upward tension.
    Back in Soviet times, a book was published such a book with the typical title “Dirty CIA Work in Western Europe”, or something like that. All of its charm was that it was written by the same "runaway" CIA staff who carefully and in great detail told how to find a CIA resident in the embassy or some other mission. All this was published by several European magazines (from where the compilation for the book was made), including the Spanish Kambio 16. I immediately then had a question - why? Firstly, counterintelligence is also not the work of kindergarten children, and all these methods of detecting residents should be well aware. Secondly, in fact, these were excellent and detailed instructions written “as if from the outside”, and pointing to weaknesses and probable sources of leaks in the cover of agents / residencies, which the CIA should quickly resolve. By the way, I note that this is why all such "whistleblowers" lived in Europe quite openly and without much fear. Well aware that the CIA, and any other special service, does not suffer from excessive humanism. Here all people are adults, therefore, to the question: "And how much life remains for such a" free shooter - defector "after real betrayal?" - they will answer quickly and without straining.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 13 August 2013 13: 27 New
      0
      Why do some not bother even with a simple attempt to find out who the person in the CIA was and what kind of work they did. And there they immediately begin to argue who is the traitor and who is not
  9. buga1979
    buga1979 13 August 2013 08: 20 New
    +4
    y
    Quote: domokl
    Alas, I fundamentally disagree with Valery. The idealist boy whom he praises in the article is nothing more than an ordinary traitor. No matter whom he betrayed, the fact itself is important. The same were in our special services.
    Talking about some kind of information that is completely unknown to us is also not worth it. There are some specific facts, but the overall picture from his statements has not changed much. Do we really not know that the special services listen to phones and control computers? Yes, watch any movie. Are we not We know that intelligence works not only in the camp of the enemy?
    To stop the incursions on me for opponents, I advise-change the name of Snowden to Kalugin and start arguing ...
    Well, you can’t do it. Snowden, an employee of the watch company Katoria, worked for anb Kalugin
    General KGB feel the difference in weight does not match and the information I gave Snowden is so everyone knew well, and Kalugin is a 100 percent traitor
  10. Lukich
    Lukich 13 August 2013 09: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: domokl
    To stop the incursions on me for opponents, I advise-change the name of Snowden to Kalugin and start arguing ...


    ... Kalugin is a spy and Reason a spy, and both of them are traitors, and Snowden is a truth-loving idealist - not to be confused - there is a very fine line here. Of course, this could be done without leaving the USA and getting a life sentence right away and becoming a martyr.
    And if we purely visually compare the same rezun or kalugin with Snowden, then it’s clear that they are simply banal traitors, such are the Americans and for such neither I nor anyone else would begin to strain, so do not confuse dear God's gift with fried eggs ...

    ... Snowden, lead Snowden - and the most amazing thing is that he is American, which means that World Socialism predicted by Anatoly Wasserman in 2020 is possible.
    .... Respect America ...
  11. Free Island
    Free Island 13 August 2013 09: 22 New
    0
    I have only one thing to say here)))) only naive Chukchi youths and quarrelsome housewives can still doubt that all the information recorded on Snowden’s baby disk in his skull and on electronic media has not yet been transferred to our special services))) all that was at Snowden already in the hands of our specialists)))) it was not in vain that he stuck in Sheremetyevo for so long. There was bargaining, although it is quite possible that the agreement between the FSB and Snowden was in advance, even before the arrival of the forehead to our country. So now the FSB is eating not only data about who is where when and what but also all the passwords of jinxers from porn sites)))
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 13 August 2013 11: 06 New
      -1
      Read carefully by whom and where Snudin worked. and your superficial statements will disappear by themselves.
  12. optimist
    optimist 13 August 2013 09: 26 New
    0
    It seems that from all this story with Snowden, our government is trying to squeeze out PR-nishtyaki to the maximum. All these "snowden" ran back and forth before him, most likely they will do after. And from a completely ordinary and banal event, the media inflated an event of universal proportions. It is necessary to distract people from problems, in this case all means are good ...
  13. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 13 August 2013 09: 29 New
    -2
    I am sure that our government, just in defiance of America, has provided shelter to the guy. I think that in the near future they will try to expel him from the country and quietly merge the intelligence agencies of America. Why? Everything is simple. Not a single government, nor a water country, wants its indecent acts to become known to the whole public, and even more so to the world. As they say, a bad example is contagious, because our government does not want to make a hero out of Snowden, and an example to follow. After all, our government has a lot to say about that, that snout is down.
  14. user
    user 13 August 2013 09: 30 New
    +2
    For special services there is no such thing - a traitor, there is working material. And we will leave the stigma of a traitor and a smuggler for movies
  15. Middle-brother
    Middle-brother 13 August 2013 09: 45 New
    0
    Seeing the title of the article, I thought that it would be about some of our boyfriend, and then ... Fie for this Snowden and his dad! How much can such a kid know? Use it like a red rag for usa.
  16. Jorg
    Jorg 13 August 2013 09: 49 New
    +1
    Without a doubt, Snowden is a traitor to his country, it is a fact.
    But the situation is not unambiguous in the first place due to the fact that, given the motives of his action, one should take into account the fact that he, Snowden, acted on the basis of his idealistic motives.
    The absence of any visible, at least material gain, justifies it a little.
    But maybe the matter is not the material component of the issue, maybe the boy is so ambitious that he simply decided to write his name in world history, at least in the history of a couple of countries.
    Maybe he decided to become a GREAT DISCLAIMER, having turned from a rank-and-file employee in a certain sense a figure of world significance?
    And the fact that he put at stake his life, at least a cloudless existence, suggests that the guy is a player and he plays big.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 13 August 2013 10: 48 New
      -1
      As you put everything on the shelves, you are simply amazed, but it looks like you transformed your own worldview into another person, without even knowing him.
      1. Jorg
        Jorg 13 August 2013 19: 09 New
        +1
        I do not transfot anything, I proceed from the facts.
        Sounds like you know him well?
        Smiled however
  17. valokordin
    valokordin 13 August 2013 09: 51 New
    +7
    And there are decent people among the Americans and it’s simply not decent to compare it with Kalugin’s nit. Kalugin betrayed compatriots Snowden rebelled against US terror.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 13 August 2013 10: 49 New
      +4
      In addition, Kalugin sold his compatriots for money. I wanted a beautiful western life.
  18. mole
    mole 13 August 2013 11: 03 New
    +4
    Be sure to develop and develop the dissident movement in NATO countries! Still to find some James Solzhenitsyn, certainly a citizen of the USA, to publish the book Guantanomo Archipelago, to present the prize "For world peace!" Create the image of fighters against tyranny and dictatorial regime so that the others reach out! Generally actively use in information warfare! wink
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 13 August 2013 21: 43 New
      0
      Exactly! Dissidents, and more! On May 23 of this year, a simple American painter completely burned the Miami nuclear submarine!, Thereby lowering the US Navy by 450 million dollars! And send a dozen painters there ....
  19. xczszs
    xczszs 13 August 2013 12: 16 New
    0
    The other day, I accidentally stumbled upon a site for checking fines in the traffic police, and by the way there you can dispute and pay online. For example, for 2 days I challenged 3 fines for a total of about 17 rubles. try it yourself, here is the link to the service - http://krz.ch/mbaza
  20. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 13 August 2013 12: 58 New
    +1
    If you got to work in intelligence, forget about honesty, decency, put your ideals deeper somewhere, there is a dirty game with backstabs and other delights, you probably need to be prepared to do terrible things for the sake of your country. Take at least a story with Korean Boeing, because the CIA deliberately stuffed the plane with spy equipment and sent the plane along the path of the Soviet radars, that is, they sent N the number of unsuspecting people for slaughter. They’ll beat well, they will not bring down, it’s also good. What do these radars do? of a nuclear strike, the Americans want to know where they are, and we accordingly want to hide it in order to protect our cities, the pilot who shot down the Boeing, probably also didn’t want to do this, he’s not a maniac but an order is an order, die but do it, no moral or ethical standards and suddenly tomorrow a nuclear war and the Americans knowing the location of the radar station will destroy them and the country will be defenseless. I mean that for my colleagues from the NSA, Snowden is certainly a traitor who revealed the world seems to be a "secret", for us, as for the other side, he is certainly a hero, it just so happened that we live in Russia, which alone opposes the world hegemon called the USA, there is an unequal battle, so why do we push the person who somehow played on our side, albeit unknowingly? Yes, he is a traitor to his country under the name of the USA, but what is it to us? Yes, and then, for a long time there is no national government in the USA, but there is a banking consortium managing the country and the world through the heads of US officials. Well, he threw a banking gang, what is it for us? There, in the USA, Orwellian 1984 had long since arrived.
  21. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 13 August 2013 15: 17 New
    -1
    Snoden is not a traitor. He would be a traitor if he leaked the secrets of his military countries to foreign intelligence, as our Kalugins did, etc. Snowden did not disclose military secrets, but vile facts about the activities of his own government in relation to the Americans themselves.
    1) I did it openly - I did not surrender everything to someone else's intelligence, but to my people.
    2) I did not receive any money and bonuses, except for a bunch of troubles.
    3) I didn’t throw poop to my homeland, being abroad.