Military Review

Our defense today is far from Soviet standards

250

There can be no talk of rivalry with the United States - would keep up with China, says the expert


Once our army was the object of pride, now - a convenient excuse to "give up the soul." Including for the Supreme Commander. The next workshop on the modernization of the Navy expectedly became a debriefing. It is unlikely that someone from those present was expecting anything else. So it always happens when reality fails to draw to dreams.

And the dreams were, and what! It seemed that the resignation of the “furniture maker” from the post of Minister of Defense would automatically, if not resolve the protracted conflict between the government customer and the military-industrial complex, then at least allow organizational tightening of the nuts in the loosening system. The reality turned out to be merciless - as if Serdyukov did not leave, as if he hadn’t been trapped in the 13-room monastery of Vasilyev.

Inconsistency in the actions of the parties leads to a relapse of past sins: factories delay the supply of components, and those that reach shipyards are often found to be defective. “During the construction period of the serial ship of one of the projects, there were 132 cases of equipment failure. Generally no good! ” - Putin reported serious ranks, like the school head teacher of ridiculous pranksters. And he added that the whole chain of strife and hack work entails, in turn, a lag in the schedule of modernization fleet.

A separate topic - overpriced. She, perhaps, most clearly demonstrated the futility of optimistic expectations of the military after the dismissal of Serdyukov. The omnipotent, almost already mythologized Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu has so far been unable to cope with this hydra. And what can a single defense minister do here, even if he is at least a hundred times sensible, if employees of defense enterprises have a reason to invest in the cost of every detail, including the “social” component, especially at those enterprises that feed entire cities ? Against the background of the lack of an alternative, it becomes somehow ugly to reproach them, but for order it seems to be as it should be - inspiration for military officials for the sake of Wherever you throw, everywhere wedge. How hard it is to be the president of Russia ...

But the well-known saying of Emperor Alexander III that the only allies of Russia are the army and the fleet became ideologically outdated in the USSR when strategic missiles were added to this list. In modern conditions, the military-space defense logically claims a priority role in protecting our borders. From the ships already, happen what, you will not shoot out. But even here their problems enough. A defective part on a ship can be detected during operation and replaced, and when a defective part or assembly finds itself in a carrier rocket ... In early July, the country saw how this could be, using as an example the launch of the Proton-M with GLONASS.

It is not surprising that the army of skeptics who claim that Russia in its current position clearly sits down with modernization not in its sled, is expanding. It is good to read triumphant reports about building up power and that we, if anything, “show them fucking mother”, listen well about the plans for modernization from the lips of Dmitry Rogozin, only these words are directed not even at an external reader, but at an internal one. Belief in the armed forces is a wonderful feeling that unites the people around the leader. But in a real combat situation, the difference between propaganda and failed navigation is all the more crushing.

In a conversation with a KM.RU columnist, Vadim Kozyulin, a professor at the Academy of Military Sciences, Ph.D. in political science, spoke about the prospects for modernizing the Russian Navy with restrained optimism:

“Both systems — the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Defense — are by definition very conservative. The people there today remained mostly the same as they were under Serdyukov, and before him. So, naturally, the problem designated by the president cannot be quickly eradicated, but it is still possible to get rid of it. But I think that after he focused on her special attention, things will still go faster. So, it happened to us that without the intervention of the president, we cannot do anything about resolving such issues.

If we talk about the level of the Soviet armed forces, today we don’t have to dream about this bar. The whole country worked on the Soviet armed forces; the best resources were directed to their creation, strengthening and expansion. The best minds of universities went to the defense industry, money went in there like an avalanche, strategic metals were sent. It is impossible to repeat this in modern conditions, and, given the current budget, it is hardly necessary: ​​it would simply be an inordinate burden. The military budget of Russia today is an order of magnitude inferior to what it was in the USSR, although it still remains at a decent level — on the order of 3,5% of GDP. Not every country can afford it.

So the prospects for the modernization of the Russian Navy can be viewed with a certain degree of optimism. There are enough funds to, even if not so quickly, as in the Soviet years, but still execute it. Of course, in the post-Soviet years the frames have considerably grown old and thinned out; the material base has become outdated in most cases. But there is a decent budget injections, there is power. The economic situation also seems to be quite stable. So modernization is feasible.

The only thing that those who hope for the revival of the Soviet fleet, of course, will be in sorrow. It is almost impossible to revive it to its former heights. Today, Russia can rather be equal to the fleets of European powers; Well, perhaps try to reach for the Chinese, whose military budget, however, is much greater than ours. But we can not compete with the United States, what we did in Soviet times.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.km.ru/
250 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. svp67
    svp67 11 August 2013 11: 31 New
    53
    Everything is correct and ... insulting. But it’s not the time to grieve, time is setting new standards and we need to meet them, and for this we need to work hard.
    1. experienced
      experienced 11 August 2013 11: 35 New
      62
      Our economy, medicine, education ... far from Soviet standards crying
      1. Sakhalininsk
        Sakhalininsk 11 August 2013 11: 56 New
        47
        Quote: seasoned
        Our economy, medicine, education ... far from Soviet standards


        as well as the standard of living of ordinary citizens and much more ... unfortunately ... seduced at one time on candy wrappers and bubblegum, now we are raking the Augean stables.
        1. tronin.maxim
          tronin.maxim 11 August 2013 13: 22 New
          12
          Comrades! Infa is certainly off topic but everything is important: on the T-50 they began to test missile weapons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_8XGvIf_8k
          1. bddrus
            bddrus 11 August 2013 18: 35 New
            0
            trials in YouTube? how long ago I saw this video
          2. silver_roman
            silver_roman 11 August 2013 20: 21 New
            0
            Well .... some kind of duck. the graph is straight, not shooting!
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 11 August 2013 20: 27 New
              +3
              Published by 16.06.2013
              1. silver_roman
                silver_roman 11 August 2013 22: 29 New
                +2
                I saw this report.
                I’m talking about a video that’s not too professional ... about weapons. although everything can be.
              2. Witold
                Witold 12 August 2013 00: 04 New
                -5
                The new T-50 fighter is cool, but unarmed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR1uroQM0RI
                1. ivshubarin
                  ivshubarin 12 August 2013 15: 34 New
                  +2
                  He flaps your f-35 wings without weapons
          3. Witold
            Witold 12 August 2013 00: 03 New
            -5
            The new T-50 fighter is cool, but unarmed
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR1uroQM0RI
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 12 August 2013 00: 19 New
              +4
              But yours. We do not have "older brothers" who prohibit the development of our own aviation.
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak 11 August 2013 20: 11 New
          11
          Quote: Author Victor Martynyuk
          as if Serdyukov did not leave, as if he had not been imprisoned in the 13-room monastery of Vasilyev.


          Surprisingly, is our thief going to live forever?
          1. old man54
            old man54 11 August 2013 20: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: Vadivak
            Quote: Author Victor Martynyuk
            as if Serdyukov did not leave, as if he had not been imprisoned in the 13-room monastery of Vasilyev.


            Surprisingly, is our thief going to live forever?

            weird question!! And it’s especially strange for me to get it from you! request
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 11 August 2013 21: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: old man54
              And it’s especially strange for me to get it from you!


              This question is not for you Andrew, this is for them ...
              1. old man54
                old man54 12 August 2013 00: 40 New
                +2
                Quote: Vadivak
                This question is not for you Andrew, this is for them ..

                I understand that the question is not for me, but they (thieves from the Kremlin and the leadership of the Moscow Region) just think that they will live forever and the people will always endure and be silent. hi
                1. sashka
                  sashka 12 August 2013 08: 02 New
                  +3
                  Main History Textbook "new" have time to write .. And then the grass does not grow ..
        3. ded10041948
          ded10041948 12 August 2013 00: 12 New
          +1
          So far we surpass Soviet standards in corruption and theft, and at the level in gouging!
      2. knn54
        knn54 11 August 2013 14: 15 New
        22
        Weapons are good, but people who know what they are fighting for are victorious. A person for the state or a state for the person ... There is not a single idea that would unite all nationalities. Only when there will be a secured and equipped life for ALL citizens, then we can talk about something. Then people (from the worker to the military) will have a feeling that they are working and defending their country, their homeland.
        PS Since 1945, the Soviet Union refused itself MUCH. It was necessary to create weapons, otherwise our country would have no future. Now, efforts are being made to finance the Olympics and the World Cup. Yes, far from Soviet standards ...
        1. Skiff-2
          Skiff-2 11 August 2013 17: 49 New
          +2
          Shipyards update, prepare and build personnel, build, build! Rogozin good luck.
        2. Duelist
          Duelist 12 August 2013 09: 26 New
          +2
          That's it! There is no national idea that would unite the whole country.
          So far, it is only visible how the SERDYUKOVs are pulling her away with impunity. Instead of building factories, there is a squandering of the already meager budget for olympiads and world championships.
      3. yak69
        yak69 11 August 2013 19: 26 New
        +8
        Quote: seasoned
        Our economy, medicine, education ... far from Soviet standards

        They say that they learn from mistakes.
        The life of Russia, the last 23 years, this completely refutes.
        Something is wrong with us all .....
        1. old man54
          old man54 11 August 2013 20: 39 New
          +4
          Quote: yak69
          They say that they learn from mistakes. The life of Russia, the last 23 of the year, this completely refutes. Something is wrong with us all .....

          and we are not worth learning! We are the citizens of this you, in our vast number! Advertising as it was, on TV for the last Olympics in London it seems. There, a little girl on hockey ice shouted: "I want a golden zoo!" And here we are, we want gold, and that’s it, we want it, and don’t give a damn how we get it. That's why we live! hi
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 11 August 2013 22: 09 New
            +8
            Quote: old man54
            and that’s it, we want a tip, and do not care how we get it.


            To be honest, I believe that sport should be an applied discipline, army-sport. And all these olympiads and championships are a struggle between manufacturers of chemistry and equipment.
      4. Tatar
        Tatar 12 August 2013 06: 43 New
        +1
        So what, comrades, DEMOCRACY !!!!!!!!!! everyone was led to this slogan in the 90s, which is still being the population of some Arab countries! it is important that, again, the people of the former union did not believe in the "kind, heartfelt" urges again !!!!!
      5. Egen
        Egen 12 August 2013 09: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: seasoned
        Our economy, medicine, education ... far from Soviet standards

        Duc! Under socialism, "everything was in the name of man, everything was for the good of man." Even with over- and infirmities, but a man - a working man, a warrior - was at the forefront and held in high esteem. Well, medicine and education were also attached to it.
        and now at the forefront is not even just money, but green papers are not rubles, because in fact, our economy depends on energy exports for dollars. Those. logically, we are being driven by printers of green papers. Well, for them it’s all on the drum - why heal and educate some when you can buy others. And in the same place - and defense, everything is interconnected :(
    2. yurii p
      yurii p 11 August 2013 13: 23 New
      +9
      Yes, but to work honestly, which is questioned, at least with respect to senior management, the example of Serdyukov and his retinue convinces of this, and such officials in various structures of the ARMY.
    3. Corsair
      Corsair 11 August 2013 13: 52 New
      10
      Quote: svp67
      Everything is correct and ... insulting. But it’s not the time to grieve, time is setting new standards and we need to meet them, and for this we need to work hard.

      At the moment, the article is more relevant as a preface to another article that more accurately reveals the reality:
      "Our defense is coming to new standards "
      The time will come for a FINAL debriefing, a comparison of "how it was and how it became." And now, without despondency, to work!
      1. old man54
        old man54 11 August 2013 20: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Corsair
        "Our defense goes to new standards"

        the price of oil and gas will collapse on MR, once again, which is all predictable and very expected, then let’s go! When on earth that sinful, will we begin to descend ??! sad
    4. vezunchik
      vezunchik 11 August 2013 14: 57 New
      0
      According to the British newspaper, it is not Snowden at all, but Putin - the main reason that the United States put a reboot with Russia on a “pause”. It was with Putin, and not with his predecessor Medvedev, that Obama had a bad relationship, the author of the article, David Blair, notes.

      The Kremlin was extremely intractable on the Syrian issue and resisted all Western attempts to “put an end to the civil war.” In addition, Blair recalls that it was under Putin that the USAID organization’s Moscow office was closed. And it was under Putin, he also notes, that a law was passed prohibiting American families from adopting Russian children.

      Despite Obama’s decision to pause the reboot with Russia, there’s no need to talk about a final break in relations, the observer believes. After all, Russia is still helping American troops in Afghanistan.

      If Moscow had put pressure on the Afghan lever, a real crisis would have come in Russian-American relations. But the realist Putin would never have allowed this, the journalist is sure: “he knows the limits of what is permitted.”

      One of the misconceptions of the Cold War is the idea that Russia confronts America on an equal footing, the author believes. “But in reality, the United States is superior to Russia in all possible ways of a superpower.” The American economy is eight times superior to the Russian economy, dependent on oil and gas. Russia is armed with the world's largest nuclear arsenal, but Russian warheads are rapidly becoming obsolete. And on the military side, the journalist is sure, the United States is far ahead of Russia. Putin understands all this well, and therefore is at enmity with the United States "within acceptable limits."

      The Russian president is also full of domestic politics. And to solve them, he resorts to the “old method: he blames the Western powers for all troubles. This is exactly what Putin is doing: he exposes America as an insidious and immoral enemy who wants to overthrow Russia and pocket its oil and gas. ”

      This means that Putin needs to maintain tense relations with America at the government level - but not so tense as to cause a final break. One of the drawbacks of Obama's "reset" policy is that it allowed Putin to "pull the tail of the superpower with impunity."

      Putting the reboot on hold, Obama made it clear that such behavior would affect diplomatic relations. It seems that the author summarizes, the American president himself realistically looks at his Russian counterpart: “I encouraged Putin to look forward, not backward in addressing these issues, but with varying success.”
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 11 August 2013 15: 04 New
        +5
        Well done Putin. Their nuclear weapons are even older than ours.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 11 August 2013 20: 13 New
          +5
          Quote: ivshubarin
          Well done Putin.


          Yes, we are aware that the government and some ministers are to blame.
          1. old man54
            old man54 11 August 2013 20: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: Vadivak
            Yes, we are aware that the government and some ministers are to blame.

            good laughing laughing
          2. ded10041948
            ded10041948 12 August 2013 00: 19 New
            0
            And if they are guilty, then why haven’t they answered yet?
      2. lelikas
        lelikas 11 August 2013 16: 58 New
        14
        Quote: vezunchik
        . The American economy is eight times superior to the Russian economy, dependent on oil and gas. Russia is armed with the world's largest nuclear arsenal, but Russian warheads are rapidly becoming obsolete. And on the military side, the journalist is sure, the USA is far ahead of Russia

        And what did he say so modestly about external debt? Give our defense industry so much money - they will build combat starships.

        Quote: vezunchik
        : he exposes America as an insidious and immoral enemy, dreaming of overthrowing Russia and pocketing its oil and gas

        He doesn’t really try - senators and congressmen (their essno) do it themselves for him with great success.
        1. RAMANZA
          RAMANZA 11 August 2013 19: 45 New
          0
          are you kidding me?)) what starships? the satellite can not start without the state of emergency !!!! our defense industry is hopelessly behind !! and it’s not going to catch up (((all hope is still for Soviet nuclear missiles !! and the army such as ours is now not capable of confronting the United States, whether on land or in the air, not in the water !!
          1. Arabist
            Arabist 11 August 2013 19: 50 New
            +1
            Hopelessly outdated? Oh really?
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 11 August 2013 20: 17 New
            +6
            Quote: RAMANZA
            satellite can not start without emergency


            Do you believe that there were satellites in that carrier? Three buckets of garbage and laundered billions, I’ll believe this, but it’s not funny to even find the switchman to read, if someone tried to stick something in the Kalash backwards, the same song
          3. 11 black
            11 black 11 August 2013 20: 44 New
            +2
            Quote: RAMANZA
            are you kidding me?)) what starships? the satellite can not start without the state of emergency !!!! our defense industry is hopelessly behind !! and it’s not going to catch up (((all hope is still for Soviet nuclear missiles !! and the army such as ours is now not capable of confronting the United States, whether on land or in the air, not in the water !!

            you are kidding - Т90с is at least not inferior to Abrams of the latest modifications, with the advent of Armata (and it will certainly appear) there will be superiority for a generation.

            You can’t even speak about comparing the T50 with American wunderwafes - the first pilots strangles and fears water like fire, the second refuses to fly at sub-zero temperatures - this is a miracle of Western technology laughing

            about air defense systems, such as with 400 and C500, too, without a word everything is clear - for a very long time they will not be equal in the world, but what about 400 - amers have only equalized their Patriot with C300 (it’s not really - it loses, for example, by the time it was brought to combat readiness and something else) so do not write heresy
            Quote: RAMANZA
            our defense industry is hopelessly behind !! and will not catch up (((

            we have all the rules with the defense industry - we still maintain superiority in the above areas, we will still try Shoigu and Rogozin to leave ahead of schedule
            Quote: RAMANZA
            and the army is such as it is now, we are not able to confront the United States, neither on land nor in the air, not at all !!


            Well, of course, about water - the overwhelming superiority of the American fleet and nothing to say ... BUT

            according to military analysts, the level of our air defense has again returned to the point that excludes the possibility of the survival of US aviation in Russia, + there are serial deliveries of С400, there will be a total of 56 divisions, another 10 divisions С500 + as yet an unclear number of Knights ... so with you’ve turned off the air !!! They’ll take control of the airspace if that’s what, but they don’t know how to fight on the ground without air ... so don’t panic - in a defensive war we have every chance of victory (what will be done “Unacceptable damage "for sure) and they understand it ... so leave your pearls about earth, water and sky - in two of these elements we have every chance to hang them ...
            1. Witold
              Witold 12 August 2013 00: 24 New
              -2
              How many Abrams are produced and how many T-90, how many F-22, F-16, F-15, F-18 and how many T-50? The new T-50 fighter is cool, but unarmed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR1uroQM0RI? How many Aegis systems and how many S-300, 400, 500? Where did you get all these divisions? You from the Ministry of Defense on the turntable personally informed, or sucked out of the finger. I don’t even remember about the fleet. But patriotism should not be shown by knocking on the keys, but at least by work.
              1. alicante11
                alicante11 12 August 2013 09: 01 New
                +1
                There are different abrams, some and T-72 are inferior from the earlier ones. For F-16 and F-15 there is Su-27, Su-30. MIG-29 new modifications.
                C-300, we are still Soviet to hell. How many Ajis do you have?

                But patriotism should not be shown by knocking on the keys, but at least by work.


                Well, you, see and manifest, working as a troll on this resource.
              2. alicante11
                alicante11 12 August 2013 09: 48 New
                0
                Hee hick s. With the Aegis, having crouched. I'm not saying that Aegis is a control system, so it is installed on 107 ships. And various modifications of C-300 - more than 2000.
              3. 11 black
                11 black 12 August 2013 09: 54 New
                +2
                Quote: Vitold
                How many Abrams released and how many T-90

                let's be more precise - how many Mark3 abrams are released and how many t90 (Mark 1 and 2 can handle and modernized T72)

                Quote: Vitold
                How many Aegis systems and how many C-300, 400, 500?

                Aegis System - this shed can only be installed permanently on the base (it will be destroyed by Iskander or Point in 3 minutes, range allows) or on a destroyer, С300 / 400 mobile soil systems, placed on the truck chassis, have a sweep time of 5 minutes, they don’t know the effectiveness equal - that is, all your countries are screaming so much because of their possible deliveries to Syria ... from Soviet times about 300 PUs were released from 1000 apart from 300В (along with "В" more than 2000 PUs), СNNXX has already taken the 400 regiment (4 divisions , 8 launcher, salvo of 64 missiles at 256km, until 300 of the year there will be XN UMX regiments) The data was taken from the state weapons program 2020, nor 28 words from the finger are not sucked ...
                Quote: Vitold
                I don’t even remember about the fleet.

                but about the fleet, I admit - there are almost none left, but there are positive aspects, we will restore 20 years later if we don’t let the furniture makers go into the defense, but your pearls regarding Russia's defense capability ... by the way, regarding the armament and 50 - I've already laid it out several times, already sorry, but ... so to speak, "de facto"
                PS you don’t need to write that the video is KG, it’s not so easy to take it, if you look at the small details (flap movement, air flow) it’s not kg, there was official news about the testing of missiles with T50 hi
          4. Tolik.Skiff.
            Tolik.Skiff. 11 August 2013 22: 55 New
            +1
            “And we always have everything CRUNIOUS !!!” Germany also had a budget before the Second World War to not compare with us ... Hitler almost in the same spirit brought reports on realities in the USSR ... Only the results of the reports were unexpected for them and full of crap ... Well, something like that ... hi
      3. papas-57
        papas-57 11 August 2013 18: 53 New
        +9
        The United States had no problems with the iPhone. Give a new toy and he is satisfied.
    5. Nevsky
      Nevsky 11 August 2013 15: 17 New
      +7
      I am sorry that off topic, this is the horror that is happening these days in Ukraine crying

      fresh:
      1. MG42
        MG42 11 August 2013 16: 24 New
        +5
        Quote: Nevsky
        I am sorry that off topic, this is the horror that is happening these days in Ukraine

        In the light of the recent destruction of the monuments to Bandera and Shukhevych, it can be assumed that this “bas-relief” will not stand for too long ..
        And what happens is not surprising since in different parts of Ukraine there are heroes and values ​​..city Zolochev Lviv region. next UPA anniversary
        1. Skiff-2
          Skiff-2 11 August 2013 17: 45 New
          +7
          Quote: MG42
          And what happens is not surprising since in different parts of Ukraine there are heroes and values ​​..city Zolochev Lviv region. next UPA anniversary

          Masks dropped, bets made - Washington Regional Committee puts on the Nazis ... sick! It is a pity not at that age and strength - I would have torn sukachi !!!
          1. MG42
            MG42 11 August 2013 18: 43 New
            +4
            Quote: Skif-2
            Masks dropped, bets made - Washington Regional Committee puts on the Nazis ... sick!

            To complete this topic, otherwise I’ll add off-topic truth ..
            In Ukraine, now the new US ambassador, one of his priority tasks will be to oversee the European integration of Ukraine ..
            The new ambassador has not yet managed to change “anything substantial” at his workplace. “I have the honor to replace here one of the most honored American diplomats - John Tefft, and I will strive for continuity in matters of our policy. In my office I just started settling in, and the first new thing is a detailed map of Ukraine. The map helps me practice in Ukrainian and recalls the strategically important position of the country, "said the ambassador.

            New US Ambassador to Ukraine Jeffrey Payatt arrived in Ukraine last weekend, but already managed to record a video message to the Ukrainians, where he spoke about his plans and spoke in Ukrainian with almost no accent

            http://mignews.com.ua/ru/articles/143355.html
            1. Rider
              Rider 11 August 2013 19: 01 New
              14
              nhhhhh ...

              and they also say - "bloody gebnya, executions, GULAG, Siberia".

              the guys didn’t finish, they didn’t finish.
              1. sleepy
                sleepy 12 August 2013 02: 04 New
                +1
                Now in Russia the Vlasovites are being rehabilitated.
                Their sentences are approximately the same - 10-20 years.
                And why not shooting?

                “There are times when a person understands that he has committed war crimes, but expects that it is impossible to find witnesses now, and turns to us.
                One of these protested the refusal of rehabilitation in court.
                Behind him was participation in hostilities - the execution of Italian partisans. The traitor has repeatedly received rewards and encouragements from the German command, uniforms.
                All this with German pedantry is imprinted in a soldier’s book, which after the war was seized from the murderer during a search. "
                http://hasid.livejournal.com/926283.html
            2. MG42
              MG42 12 August 2013 00: 01 New
              +3
              Well, someone minus the news about the after the United States, I’ll have to supplement it, I didn’t invent anything about the “curation” of the European integration of Ukraine ..

              The new US ambassador to Ukraine gave his first interview.
              09.08.2013

              The main task at the post of US Ambassador to Ukraine, Jeffrey Payatt, sees the promotion of our country in European institutions. This was stated in an interview with the Vesti newspaper by the new ambassador.

              - My main priority is to support the European choice of the Ukrainian people. I plan to pay special attention to this issue right up to the start of the Vilnius Summit, ”said Jeffrey Payatt. - The US Embassy continues to support democracy and human rights, economic development, improved health care and energy independence so that Ukraine finds its future in a free and peaceful Europe.

              The American diplomat said that with his arrival in Kiev, the United States will continue its policy of active interaction with Ukraine.

              “Those with whom I spoke in Washington are following with interest what is happening here.” We are ready to support the Ukrainian people in building a modern, prosperous, democratic European state. In the coming months, the Ukrainian leadership will have a historic opportunity to move towards European integration, and I will urge to seize this chance, ”the ambassador said.

              According to Payatt, energy security will play a key role in the future of Ukraine. And American companies are ready to help our country unleash its energy potential.


              http://kp.ua/daily/090813/407759/
    6. Imigrantt
      Imigrantt 11 August 2013 15: 24 New
      +7
      Tutelka Tutelka! A lot of work, and as little as possible to tremble and listen - thrash !!! hi
    7. beech
      beech 11 August 2013 15: 37 New
      +1
      Russia in the current situation is clearly sitting down with modernization not in its sled, is expanding.
      - suggest leaving everything as it is?
    8. Theophanes
      Theophanes 11 August 2013 17: 31 New
      +5
      In order to meet the challenges of the time, it is necessary to transplant all Serdyukovs, Vasilyevs, etc. But this is not even visible! All hopes fell into the abyss !!!
    9. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 11 August 2013 19: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Everything is correct and ... insulting.


      Still a couple of years and generally the army would have remained. And what is there is weaker than what it was even in 2008. It's sad ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 12 August 2013 00: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Blackgrifon
        It's sad ...

        Of course, but I’m glad that they didn’t even get to this.
    10. dmitrich
      dmitrich 12 August 2013 09: 00 New
      0
      I did not understand what he wanted to say with this article.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 11 August 2013 11: 42 New
    +5
    Yes, I agree "MODERNIZATION IS IMPLEMENTABLE" and has already begun if you are interested, and not just write an article. Intelligent contractors would especially get used to technology, otherwise conscripts only manage to break something in a year, but there’s no way to repair it.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. PValery53
    PValery53 11 August 2013 11: 45 New
    14
    In order not to tear the navel in the race for America in the development of the fleet, it is necessary to plow and plow the development of the heavy, manufacturing and machine tool industry and hI-tec technologies, and this is not a one-day task at all. And the people for this will have to "tighten their belts" ... And do not bathe in parasitic strata of society in luxury !! ..
    1. sleepy
      sleepy 11 August 2013 13: 00 New
      17
      Quote: PValery53
      "... And the people for this will have to" tighten their belts "...
      And do not bathe in parasitic strata of society in luxury !! ..
      "

      In reality, people are tightening their belts tighter and tighter,
      and the layers continue to bathe ...

      “Just recently, the Government announced another“ socially-oriented ”initiative, which once again confirmed the thesis that
      that the state serves the commercial interests of large oligarchic capital and monopolies, and not the interests of the vast majority of the population.
      We are talking about the Government’s intention to introduce in 2014. the notorious social norm of water and energy consumption, which among ordinary citizens
      and the media got the name energy soldering.
      As it became known, the norms of electricity and water consumption are planned
      introduce in Russia in 2014-2015. This was announced on July 30
      at a meeting held in Gorki by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Kozak ... "
      http://aloban75.livejournal.com/328318.html
    2. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 11 August 2013 13: 17 New
      25
      Quote: PValery53
      In order not to tear the navel in the race for America in the development of the fleet, it is necessary to plow and plow the development of the heavy, manufacturing and machine tool industry and hI-tec technologies, and this is not a one-day task at all. And the people for this will have to "tighten their belts" ... And do not bathe in parasitic strata of society in luxury !! ..

      The people should not tighten their belts, but the noose around the neck of the oligarchs and their servants.
      We do not need to work on the development of industry; it is already well developed.
      We need to work to download it, it costs no orders, or it works abroad.
    3. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 11 August 2013 13: 33 New
      25
      Quote: PValery53
      it is necessary to plow and plow on the development of the heavy, manufacturing and machine-tool industry and hI-tec technologies, and this is not a one-day task at all .... And do not bathe in parasitic layers of society in luxury !! ..

      In my unenlightened view, the reason for the lag is that the GDP does not conduct such MEETINGS THERE ... WHERE YOU NEED ... Look - no meeting is the Kremlin with air conditioning, a government buffet and other superblogs for specially charged state attorneys . And this sets up more relaxation and more thoughts in the Bahamas than in workshops and design bureaus.
      But if you had a meeting with a report on the accomplishment of the tasks set for the year, at least as a large leader, in the CONFERENCE HALL of an institution such as “Sailor Silence”, then there would probably be another return .. Imagine - the GDP is sitting, the Prosecutor General is on the right, and the Chairman of the Supreme Court is on the left. Above them is the slogan - "TAKE PLACE, SO DON'T TALK THAT YOU ARE NOT DUZH!" It is reported, for example, by the chief of a shipyard that he fed everyone a "breakfast" for a whole year ... but in fact it turned out to be a pancake lumpy ... They listened to it on the podium ... made some noise ... and invited the speaker to spend a couple of three years in a separate room "..here is in Matroskoy T ..., though without condition and BAGAM! But with a bucket! He promised ... he would get big grandmothers ... he went to the Bahamas, instead of getting out of the shops and the shipyard ... get what he deserves.
      Believe me ... such a change in the venues of the meetings would sharply increase the MOTIVATION OF THE WORK OF OUR HEADS!
      It is not in vain that they say ... to whom much has been given, one has to ask a lot from that! In the meantime, they only threaten with a FINGER AND PROMISE TO DELIVER IN THE ANGLE! It's time to ask! Oh, like a pooh!
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 11 August 2013 13: 56 New
        +5
        That's right, put a "+". But interestingly, who will ask? The president, he won’t be in time everywhere, the Duma is just ridiculous, the prosecutor’s office is not there either, you need to be a specialist with a certain level of access. So who? And in one more I agree, such meetings should be held not with a buffet and a buffet table, but in a tone like that "- Vee, comrade Kakvastam, promised to launch a missile cruiser, but they didn’t hold back their obligations. You tricked us, it’s not bad. Lawrence, explain comrade his mistakes. " Then, I think it would be good.
      2. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 11 August 2013 17: 06 New
        +9
        Quote: KazaK Bo
        But if you had a meeting with a report on the accomplishment of the tasks set for the year, at least, being in the position of a big leader, in the CONFERENCE HALL of such an institution as "Sailor Silence"

        Dreamer You, my friend laughing
        1. old man54
          old man54 12 August 2013 00: 50 New
          +1
          And Smerdyukov has been working for a long time, moreover, in the civil service, he receives 500, he’s sick, he can’t do less, he’s not enough for women otherwise! laughing Work at RosNANO, a consultant to Chubik. On VO the article was about it ... his expulsion from Paradise-MO!
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 12 August 2013 01: 29 New
            0
            Quote: old man54
            For now, these are rumors.
      3. strange and pretty meaningless
        strange and pretty meaningless 12 August 2013 08: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: KazaK Bo
        is sitting GDP, Attorney General on the right, Supreme Court Chairman on the left

        good Direct oil painting - just how to plant them ?!
  6. Arabist
    Arabist 11 August 2013 11: 45 New
    18
    In general, it is foolish to expect that even with Shoigu everything will change in the shortest possible time. And expect that 1 country, even such as Russia, will easily and quickly catch up with what another 14 republics and allies of the USSR were doing.
    1. cc-20
      cc-20 11 August 2013 13: 03 New
      +7
      Well, if most of the republics are subsidized regions and they still need to be fed, then their absence will soon make it possible to find funds for a decent fleet. For example, the USSR bought grain by spending petrodollars on it, while the Russian Federation is a major supplier of grain to the world market. In principle, in many respects the collapse of the USSR, through the conspiracy of NATO and the oil sheikhs about dumping oil, namely put the USSR in danger of starvation and the vile restructuring began, which later destroyed the country, because grain is not only bread, but also meat (for example, chicken is grown in grain poultry farms). So, today's Russia is deprived of these problems and the Russian miracle is not a fantasy. In part, we actually observe this in the form of new ships of the Navy.
      1. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 11 August 2013 14: 24 New
        +7
        Quote: cc-20
        Well, if most of the republics are subsidized regions and they still need to be fed, then their absence will soon make it possible to find funds for a decent fleet. For example, the USSR bought grain by spending petrodollars on it, while the Russian Federation is a major supplier of grain to the world market. In principle, in many respects the collapse of the USSR, through the conspiracy of NATO and the oil sheikhs about dumping oil, namely put the USSR in danger of starvation and the vile restructuring began, which later destroyed the country, because grain is not only bread, but also meat (for example, chicken is grown in grain poultry farms). So, today's Russia is deprived of these problems and the Russian miracle is not a fantasy. In part, we actually observe this in the form of new ships of the Navy.

        You have complete chaos of liberal cliches in your head.
        The republics were not subsidized, but investment, two big differences.
        The USSR did not have petrodollars; from 1972 until the mid-80s, the USSR sold oil and gas only to the CMEA countries, which did not have any bucks.
        The USSR sold 1000 times more grain abroad than it bought and not for petrodollars, but for its industrial products.
        Oil dumping did not affect the economy of the USSR at all, since the USSR did not enter the dollar space and did not threaten the USSR with any famine.
        The USSR fed ALL basic products not only itself, but also a bunch of countries in Europe, America and Asia.
        Perestroika is the deliberate destruction of the economy of the USSR, empty stores with packed warehouses and vaults to failure. Mountains of products were not transported to stores, but to landfills. Search the net for a video of Nevzorov from “600” seconds about homeless people eating meat delicacies at a dump in Leningrad and complaining that they don’t bring bread and vodka to the dump.
        1. poquello
          poquello 11 August 2013 19: 48 New
          +1
          I probably need to copy my individual posts chtol.
          Do not refute refute, but occasionally climb with the same.

          Grain Dictate
          In July 1972, the USSR began record purchases of food in the United States.

          http://www.stoletie.ru/territoriya_istorii/zernovoj_diktat_725.htm
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 12 August 2013 02: 10 New
            +1
            From http://www.stoletie.ru/territoriya_istorii/zernovoj_diktat_725.htm


            "Why, after all, did they buy grain only from the USA?
            The article does not indicate all the moments of the recent "grain" history.
            In 1988, 1989, in the era of publicity, among the general noise, it was reported that in the Stavropol and Krasnodar regions surplus bread had accumulated in elevators and on currents.
            Farmers were ready to sell it for less than three quarters of the price paid for American wheat, but in hard currency.
            Bought from the Americans. The grain has rotted. "
            "The question is, who specifically made the decision to purchase grain in America. GOSPLAN? That tricky organization that used to freeze funds in long-term construction factories and which bought equipment before erecting the walls, so that in the open air it became worthless for two years. then you can understand who was repressed in 37 and for what, then you will understand why the fifth column almost never hit in the back.
            And then maybe you will go out to the world government and understand why Stalin died so strangely and when the “decline of socialism” really began. Do this if you are really trying to understand and are not a zombie repeater of "ordered theses." And up to 30%, the level of automation (milking machines on farms, and combines with tractors) even if we compare 50 years with the 80s, even 30% and 10% of the population of all the rest could feed their own bread.
            So look for yours do not repeat someone else's :( "
            http://www.stoletie.ru/territoriya_istorii/zernovoj_diktat_725.htm
            1. poquello
              poquello 12 August 2013 03: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: sleepy
              From http://www.stoletie.ru/territoriya_istorii/zernovoj_diktat_725.htm


              It’s worth immediately highlighting two points-
              USSR bought grain from the bourgeois? -bought.
              And the second - the differences of opinion on the article from the "century"

              Quote: sleepy

              "Why, after all, did they buy grain only from the USA?

              Not only. I knew that the USSR bought grain in Canada, so I began to look about the import of grain from the USSR.
              Import from the USA is easy to explain - the opponents tried to establish relations.
              Quote: sleepy

              The article does not indicate all the moments of the recent "grain" history.
              In 1988, 1989, in the era of publicity, among the general noise, it was reported that in the Stavropol and Krasnodar regions surplus bread had accumulated in elevators and on currents.
              The farmers were ready to sell it for less than three quarters of the price paid for American wheat, but in hard currency.

              Currency and the USSR were a sad topic, sources of currency were limited. The demands of their farmers could well be considered arrogance.
              Quote: sleepy
              State Plan? That tricky organization
              gosplan or other Soviet structure does not matter to me. This is the state structure of the USSR
              Quote: sleepy

              why the fifth column in the back almost did not hit in 1941.
              And then maybe you’ll come to a world government

              I haven’t seen slender versions about 41, I heard about the world government, but I’m not discussing “life on Mars”
              Quote: sleepy

              they allowed even not 30%, but 10% of the population of all the rest to feed their bread.
              and drink?
              Quote: sleepy

              So look for yours do not repeat someone else's

              I'm not so proud to sculpt my own from someone else
          2. Corsair5912
            Corsair5912 12 August 2013 19: 24 New
            0
            Quote: poquello
            I probably need to copy my individual posts chtol.
            Do not refute refute, but occasionally climb with the same.
            Grain Dictate
            In July 1972, the USSR began record purchases of food in the United States.
            http://www.stoletie.ru/territoriya_istorii/zernovoj_diktat_725.htm


            You, like the authors of many liberal liberals, have primitive thinking.
            In 1972, the USSR did not buy any food from the United States and Canada, except for the cheapest feed grain.
            They buy not only when their own is not enough, but when someone else's is much cheaper.
            The USSR bought not only grain, but also many types of ore raw materials, when it was profitable.
            Copper concentrates were bought in Chile until 1978, until the contract ended. Nickel, rare-metal, uranium ores, bauxites, etc. were bought in Africa, Asia and L. America, it was more profitable than mining them in Siberia.
            We must look beyond our noses and not confuse the liberal Russia of 1992, when we were forced to eat “Bush's legs” from the USSR in 1972, when a pig was the longest animal in the USSR, spreading to Africa and Cuba.
            1. poquello
              poquello 13 August 2013 02: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: Corsair5912
              Quote: poquello

              Do not refute refute, but occasionally climb with the same.
              Grain Dictate
              In July 1972, the USSR began record purchases of food in the United States.
              http://www.stoletie.ru/territoriya_istorii/zernovoj_diktat_725.htm


              You, like the authors of many liberal liberals, have primitive thinking.
              In 1972, the USSR did not buy any food from the United States and Canada, except for the cheapest feed grain.
              Heard, heard - a beautiful version of the fertility of pigs. Piglets so proliferated that they always had to eat guzzles. )
              Quote: Corsair5912

              They buy not only when their own is not enough, but when someone else's is much cheaper.
              Here I thought primitively - international transactions with the bourgeoisie is a currency or barter. You will tell me about the cheapness of the domestic market - this is ridiculous when bourgeois counteracts sales from the USSR. Political gain still rolls - as with Chile.
              Quote: Corsair5912

              the liberal Russia of 1992, when we were forced to eat "Bush's legs" from the USSR in 1972, when the pig was the longest animal in the USSR, spreading to Africa and Cuba.
              Bush’s legs were not forced to eat, but created conditions for the expansion of goods — public relations, dumping, and the collapse of domestic poultry farms.

              From 72 years old they fed pigs or didn’t care for vodka - my primitive tells me that no one would remember about two cars of fodder.
      2. sleepy
        sleepy 11 August 2013 14: 40 New
        0
        Quote: ss-20
        "... For example, the USSR bought grain, spending petrodollars on it,
        and the Russian Federation is a major supplier of grain to the world market.
        In principle, in many ways, the collapse of the USSR, through the conspiracy of NATO and the oil sheikhs about dumping oil, specifically put the USSR in danger of starvation ... "


        In the USSR, livestock was developed.
        For cattle, fodder grain was purchased abroad.
        In Russia, animal husbandry was destroyed as a result of entry into the WTO.
        Hence the surplus of grain in Russia.
        The collapse of the USSR due to the conspiracy of NATO and the oil sheikhs about dumping oil is a myth.

        Read more about the economic causes of the collapse of the USSR
        in the book of Stepan Sulakshin - "Treason".
        "In the book is a study of a famous Russian politician and scientist.
        The state of the real mechanism of state. governance of Russia in the 90s.
        Persons and clans are shown, the roles, interests and motives of the actual leader and leadership of the country are revealed.
        The loss of state sovereignty of Russia is proved.
        A professionally planned, global and focused on the implementation of national security, national interests of the United States, and a mechanism for managing Russia from abroad are described in detail.
        The true results, focus and ultimate goals of Russian
        reform. A large volume of exclusive documents and evidence has been provided. "

        http://lib.ru/POLITOLOG/sulakshin.txt
        1. Olegovi4
          Olegovi4 11 August 2013 17: 11 New
          +4
          Quote: sleepy
          In Russia, animal husbandry was destroyed as a result of entry into the WTO.

          I do not agree with you. It was destroyed until the 2000s, when the villager himself, sorry, had nothing to eat.
          1. Corsair5912
            Corsair5912 12 August 2013 19: 41 New
            0
            Quote: Olegovi4
            Quote: sleepy
            In Russia, animal husbandry was destroyed as a result of entry into the WTO.

            I do not agree with you. It was destroyed until the 2000s, when the villager himself, sorry, had nothing to eat.

            Such that there was nothing to eat for a rural resident in Russia since the 30s of the 20th century, the village does not live without vegetable gardens.
            I live in the city, but every year from my small area I provide myself with potatoes, cabbage, carrots, beets, berries, onions, herbs.
            Collective farm and livestock livestock farming was destroyed by cooperators and privatizers in the late 80s and early 90s, and racketeers and resellers were crushed in private in alliance with importers of buffalo, jackal, monkey, and infected meat in the 80-90s. Farmers went broke and slaughtered cattle, and cows and pigs remained in only 20-30% of private households.
            1. poquello
              poquello 13 August 2013 02: 10 New
              +1
              Quote: Corsair5912

              Such that there was nothing to eat for a rural resident in Russia since the 30s of the 20th century, the village does not live without vegetable gardens.
              I live in the city, but every year from my small area I provide myself with potatoes, cabbage, carrots, beets, berries, onions, herbs.
              The collective and state farm animal husbandry was destroyed by cooperators and privatizers in the late 80s and early 90s, and the racket and resellers crushed the private in

              There were problems with the sale of private meat, but people kept and still hold cows and goats for milk (tk is a subjective fact)
    2. alone
      alone 11 August 2013 23: 33 New
      0
      I agree that what was destroyed within 20 years cannot be restored in a short time. It takes years of hard work and huge amounts of money
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 12 August 2013 02: 17 New
        +1
        Quote: Olegovi4
        "I do not agree with you. It was destroyed before the 2000s,
        when the villager himself, excuse me, there was nothing to "eat". "


        I agree that livestock farming was destroyed before joining the WTO.
  7. erased
    erased 11 August 2013 11: 49 New
    26
    One “But” to the article. The resources of the USSR are a pipe dream ... no, not the army. The oligarchs. And those are all sold to the West with giblets, souls and other things. The crumbs that go to the army after theft and kickbacks make it possible to keep the sun in at least some relatively capable state. And that is bread. As long as there is enough nuclear stock, no one will openly and directly climb outside. However, the main trouble of the country is internal. The entire state apparatus, from the head of the village and the prefect of the city district to the Kremlin sitters, is the enemy of the people, one hundred percent corruption and obedience to the West. And these enemies with missiles and bombs cannot be demolished. All that has been happening in recent years in the country is a harbinger of the “sabant” that the West and the state apparatus of the Russian Federation controlled by it are preparing for us. And when it starts ... well then it will be too late to drink Borjomi ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  8. Selevc
    Selevc 11 August 2013 11: 52 New
    +6
    But we can’t compete with the United States, what we did in Soviet times.

    So the USA could not keep up with the fleet even in Soviet times ... America is washed by two oceans on the coasts of which there are perhaps the world's largest shipbuilding capacities - and in the USSR only one plant in Nikolaev built Aircraft carriers ... What parity can we talk about if the USSR It was a power with a huge land border and historically with a large land army, and the US historically built and developed primarily a fleet to control the oceans and, as a result, over neighboring countries ...

    High Soviet standards in the defense industry also had their opposite negative side - older people would understand me perfectly: Since they themselves stood in endless lines in stores after work, the jokes about 40 types of sausages in those days were very witty, getting a decent car - like VAZ-08,09 XNUMX was considered a great success and only rare lucky and big officials traveled to the Volga, many decent goods got out from under the counter - through dating, having a decent Japanese tape recorder was a cherished and unattainable dream of many Soviet boys, and those who had the luck to go on vacation to Bulgaria was considered that life was not lived in vain ... :)))))))) And it was also difficult for a simple hard worker to get a rest in Yalta or Sochi since every year all the places there were occupied by “his people”

    What remains to be added - now Russia is very far from Soviet military standards - but the standard of living has increased many times over in comparison with the USSR !!!
    1. Very old
      Very old 11 August 2013 12: 39 New
      10
      And although I put you +, Andrei, I categorically disagree with your last statement. And the point is not the abyss that divided the highly secured and the very unsecured. Statistics are famous statistics, everyone has it for their pleasure. I remember the shops of the early 50s, there was everything, but in my pockets it’s empty.
      Today, with salaries even at 15-17 many families do not fit into the budget. Raise children for young parents - no problem.
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 12 August 2013 16: 22 New
        0
        I didn’t live in the USSR in the 50s - but I remember the 80s very well ... Some goods - for example, furniture was not easy to buy - there were all Bedrooms, Kitchens, Walls on the window - but there was a sign “Almost a copy” on almost everything "or" Sold "... And everything was really sold from the rear entrance - through the loader :))) And even the little that was given - they grabbed especially without choosing ... And remember the waste passions? What queues were behind the books - the generation born in modern Russia cannot understand this anymore !!! There were of course very big pluses at that time - for example, very cheap transportation and utility bills ...

        Now life is much worse than in those days - but at least you can set a goal and raise money for the same holiday in Turkey or for the same furniture in a year ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 11 August 2013 13: 49 New
        +7
        About the shortage and those who were interested in it, the Soviet feature film directed by Vladimir Bortko was shot - "Blonde around the corner."
        Due to censorship, it was released only two years later - in 1984.
        In the first year of the show, the film was watched by about 25 million viewers.

        The film shows two sections of the life of Soviet society during the Brezhnev stagnation: on the one hand, the gray and nondescript life of the majority
        "ordinary Soviet people" amid a total deficit,
        on the other hand, there is an abundance of material goods for those who have access to them.
        A modern viewer who has watched the film will be surprised: it turns out
        already then, in the early 80s, there were automatic washing machines, imported household appliances, redevelopment of apartments, renovations,
        going to church as a prestigious habit of wealthy people
        (“All of them are there and they are believers like us”).

        Charming Nadezhda (Tatyana Dogileva), as a person of the “system”
        (in this case, trading), is the true mistress of "this" life,
        to which she seeks to attach Nikolai (Andrey Mironov).
    3. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 11 August 2013 21: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: Selevc
      but the standard of living in comparison with the USSR has increased many times !!!

      1 How were they compared?
      2 Do you confuse the availability of an assortment with the possibility of acquiring it?
  9. Vovka levka
    Vovka levka 11 August 2013 11: 52 New
    24
    You know, when the loot is done, but not earned, it is simply impossible to produce something. The soul does not lie, it is a stranger. And in order to produce highly technological things, it is necessary to plow, to grow specialists. And any highly skilled specialist has his own point of view and does not like to bend. And they don’t like such people at state-owned factories, they love the humble ones. So the best ones leave, especially if there are brains, you will not be lost. Everyone wanted to work for the Union for the military, it was the industry elite. And now they work mainly from hopelessness and leave as soon as possible where they pay more. For you cannot feed your family with patriotism. The most important thing in production is people, specialists, not what they are sitting in the office. Those who are in control almost always have a very vague idea of ​​how production lives.
    That is why such a result.
    1. lewerlin53rus
      lewerlin53rus 11 August 2013 13: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: Vovka Levka
      And they don’t like such people at state-owned factories, they love the humble ones.

      one would think of private traders differently. laughing
    2. rexby63
      rexby63 11 August 2013 23: 07 New
      -1
      Piz.i, pick up the snot. There is still gunpowder ...
  10. Airman
    Airman 11 August 2013 11: 52 New
    11
    Even multibillion-dollar injections without a radical restructuring of the military-industrial complex, the return of fundamental enterprises to state ownership, and without replacing "effective managers" with specialists in their field, it is difficult to count on a quick recovery.
  11. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 11 August 2013 11: 53 New
    12
    Nobody denies a lot of problems for us .. Only there is one small plus sign .. This is an increase in the spirit of national self-awareness .. (and he can work miracles ..) We are reborn and become stronger every year .. and not only in the military and political aspect .Russian spirit is reborn and liberals of all stripes are so afraid of it .. It is not bought and sold! And they can’t understand it in any way .. here they are tearing and dreaming of impotent malice .. And we are not offended by the wretched ones, we just go our own way .. Here are such things ..
  12. Colonelic
    Colonelic 11 August 2013 12: 00 New
    +3
    Tooting...
  13. andrei332809
    andrei332809 11 August 2013 12: 01 New
    +4
    in Soviet times, such topics were monitored tightly. and the punishment for gagging was quite real. it’s necessary not only to tighten the laws, but also not to look who is equal there before the law. But is there enough will?
  14. stranik
    stranik 11 August 2013 12: 06 New
    +5
    The Americans have their own problems, besides, they have bad soldiers, not of the fighting spirit, to compete with us, they are going to war for the green dollar.


    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 11 August 2013 18: 56 New
      +2
      It’s just work for them, and they’re used to doing work well!
      1. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 12 August 2013 19: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Starina_Hank
        It’s just work for them, and they’re used to doing work well!

        If nothing threatens their precious asses.
        USAA (NATO) is engaged in predatory, predatory wars, which require completely different qualities than for defensive and liberation wars.
        The robber, punisher and executioner will not risk his ass and skin, the purpose of his war is not worth it.
        Yusovtsy go to war not to lay down their lives for the Fatherland, but to snatch the dough.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. treskoed
    treskoed 11 August 2013 12: 15 New
    +3
    If we talk about the level of the Soviet armed forces, then today we do not have to dream about this bar.

    The bitter consolation is that not only the armed forces have dropped the bar: education, health, etc., etc. ...
    And if you take patriotism as a motive in military service, then .....
    1. sub307
      sub307 11 August 2013 15: 02 New
      +3
      In general, the article is rather ambiguous, although there are elements of “healthy” criticism. It’s almost impossible not to notice the "fall of the bars" of all kinds to those who have "seen the position of these bars" in person.
  17. tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 11 August 2013 12: 38 New
    10
    The time has come for mass purges and landings, the failure of the state program is called wrecking, to give a tower with confiscation, each problem has its own surname and name.
    1. albatross
      albatross 11 August 2013 13: 43 New
      +1

      tilovaykrisa (1) RU Today, 12:38 PM New
      The time has come for mass purges and landings, the failure of the state program is called wrecking, to give a tower with confiscation, each problem has its own surname and name.

      2003: an interview with Deripaska, did not read? There will not be what you are talking about. GDP is not like that. http://www.mignews.com/news/interview/cis/120306_105944_71317.html
      - And Putin, excuse me, is he a manager? Or does he make decisions?

      - The President of Russia is a kind of top manager managing the whole country. He is an intelligent, adequate person, never exceeding the limits of his authority. We noticed how the state apparatus in the White House earned, how the prosecutor's office, the courts, special services work, how Russian television channels and newspapers work? Just brilliant! Everything helps the economy, business, and does not interfere with us, as it was recently.

      Under this you can give money, which we do.

      - "We" is a big business?

      “We” is the Russian real power. Big business is part of our technology.
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 11 August 2013 14: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: tilovaykrisa
        "The time has come for mass purges and landings, the disruption of the state program
        called wrecking, confiscation tower to give,
        each problem has its own last name and first name. "


        For the failure of the state migration program can be imprisoned.
        "The former regional minister of economics will appear before the court,
        accused of abuse of authority ...
        ... Thus, without the decision of the interdepartmental commission, the minister independently reduced 76 legal entities and individuals
        their stated quotas for a total of 4 people.
        Investigator SK collected a sufficient evidence base.
        In this connection indictment in a criminal case
        already approved
        prosecutor of the Sverdlovsk region. "
        http://www.sverdlovsk.sledcom.ru/news/detail.php?news=131494
      2. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 11 August 2013 15: 07 New
        +1
        We - this is whose whole business is pledged in foreign banks. The figure itself is not independent.
      3. user
        user 11 August 2013 17: 24 New
        0
        Effective Owner Announces Closure of Enterprises

        http://topwar.ru/31740-effektivnyy-sobstvennik-vnov-obyavlyaet-o-zakrytii-predpr
        iyatiy.html

        http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/1227595/
        1. user
          user 11 August 2013 17: 28 New
          +2
          Window dressing in Russia 131 dollar billionaire
  18. valokordin
    valokordin 11 August 2013 12: 40 New
    +6
    ЕIf we talk about the level of the Soviet armed forces, then today we do not have to dream about this bar. The whole country worked for the Soviet armed forces, the best resources were allocated for their creation, strengthening and expansion. The best minds of universities went into the defense industry, money went there in an avalanche, strategic metals were sent. It is impossible to repeat this in modern conditions, and, given the current budget, it is hardly necessary: ​​it would become an unreasonable burden. Russia's military budget today is an order of magnitude inferior to what it was in the USSR, although it still remains at a decent level - about 3,5% of GDP. Not every country can afford it.
    For interest, we can add that the budget of the USSR Ministry of Defense was equal to the proceeds from the sale of alcohol. If we now nationalize the production of alcohol, there was enough money for defense.
  19. APASUS
    APASUS 11 August 2013 12: 40 New
    +4
    We must cast a 16 kg medal under Peter and give it to Serdyukov for his merits!
    Let all his life wears and remembers for what!
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 12 August 2013 19: 55 New
      0
      Quote: APASUS
      We must cast a 16 kg medal under Peter and give it to Serdyukov for his merits!
      Let all his life wears and remembers for what!

      This is too cruel. It is better to let him go into the ocean, in free swimming, let him swim like a sperm whale.
      Big ship - a big anchor.
  20. shpuntik
    shpuntik 11 August 2013 12: 43 New
    +3
    “During the construction period of the serial ship of one of the projects, there were 132 cases of equipment failure. Generally no good! ” - Putin said serious ranks, like the school head teacher of ridiculous pranksters.

    In Soviet times, there were party meetings, they could stretch along the party line for a delay. Yes, and the Criminal Code was stricter. The GDP would, the government, still unfastened nettles like a village grandmother.
    I do not observe any consequences of the measures taken.
  21. Very old
    Very old 11 August 2013 12: 46 New
    +4
    Victor Martynyuk: "... without the intervention of the president, we cannot do without such questions." Firstly, he is the president. And again, firstly, he is the Supreme Commander! One from the others is inseparable. Therefore, we expect from him the correct "taxiing"
  22. vitas
    vitas 11 August 2013 12: 50 New
    +1
    The USSR and Russia are completely different states, and there is a lot of pride for the first, and almost nothing for the second. There is nothing to be done, now we have a new country and its future is in our hands.
  23. rereture
    rereture 11 August 2013 12: 53 New
    0
    People can stop looking only backwards? The USSR is no longer there, no matter how good it is, no matter how excellent it is, you won’t return it anymore, it’s gone.
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 August 2013 12: 58 New
      0
      Quote: rereture
      People can stop looking only backwards? The USSR is no longer there, no matter how good it is, no matter how excellent it is, you won’t return it anymore, it’s gone.
      But you can return what was good in it, in particular in defense matters, and use it to the benefit of today's Russia ...
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 11 August 2013 13: 09 New
        +9
        Quote: rereture
        "People can stop looking only backwards?
        The USSR is no more, no matter how good it is, no matter how excellent it is,
        you won’t return it, it’s not there. "


        Still not worth forgetting the USSR.
        The USSR was not afraid to call NATO an enemy.

        1. regsSSSR
          regsSSSR 11 August 2013 14: 33 New
          +3
          Quote: sleepy

          Still not worth forgetting the USSR.
          The USSR was not afraid to call NATO an enemy.


          but now this enemy feels great at the base near Ulyanovsk, transporting horseradish knows what goods are in Avgan and maybe in Syria (opposition)! (the information is still very scarce on this issue and what is the most interesting complete silence on the air)
        2. MG42
          MG42 11 August 2013 19: 13 New
          +5
          Quote: sleepy
          Still not worth forgetting the USSR.
          The USSR was not afraid to call NATO an enemy.

          Do not forget that at that time there was an ATS <Warsaw Pact Organization> military alliance. The agreement was signed by Albania, Bulgaria, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Romania, the USSR and Czechoslovakia on May 14, 1955 at the Warsaw meeting of European states to ensure peace and security in Europe.
          The agreement entered into force on June 5, 1955. On April 26, 1985, due to expiration, it was extended for 20 years.
          So the advanced Cold War with NATO in Europe was not the borders of the USSR, and it was very wise ..
          The treaty ceased to exist on July 1, 1991 sad
      2. rereture
        rereture 11 August 2013 13: 27 New
        -3
        Quote: svp67
        But you can return what was good in it, in particular in defense matters, and use it to the benefit of today's Russia ...


        No you can not. Not that political system.
    2. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 11 August 2013 19: 00 New
      +1
      Whoever forgets the old - that eye is out!
      1. Normal
        Normal 11 August 2013 23: 32 New
        +4
        Quote: Starina_Hank
        Whoever forgets the old - that eye is out!

        Uh, dear, you need to know the sayings.
        "Who remembers the old - to eye out“Everyone knows this and remembers it. But about the second part:
        "And whoever forgets the old - to two out!"forget yes
      2. rereture
        rereture 11 August 2013 23: 34 New
        0
        Who remembers the old - that eye is out!
  24. optimist
    optimist 11 August 2013 12: 57 New
    +3
    It is not surprising that the army of skeptics who claim that Russia in its current position clearly sits down with modernization not in its sled, is expanding. It is good to read triumphant reports about building up power and that we, if anything, “show them fucking mother”, listen well about the plans for modernization from the lips of Dmitry Rogozin, only these words are directed not even at an external reader, but at an internal one. Belief in the armed forces is a wonderful feeling that unites the people around the leader. But in a real combat situation, the difference between propaganda and failed navigation is all the more crushing.
    Looking at the events of the last couple of years (more precisely, at the informational background in the government media), one gets the strong impression that the authorities are struggling to make "a good mine with a bad game." At the top, apparently, they are well aware of the imminent arrival of the Big Polar Fox (it does not matter in what guise: military, economic, ethnic conflict, etc.) and therefore intensely escalate pseudo-patriotic hysteria. But personally, it seems to me that any person more or less adequate and capable of logical thinking should understand: while the Chubys, Serdyukov, Gorbachev and other creatures live and live in freedom in Russia, there can be no real uplift and advancement. All the same media stubbornly grind us day and night that there are only two honest "patriots" in the country: the gdp and the shoigu, the rest of the thieves and bribe takers. And only two of these “heroes” fight day and night for the country. and until the bulk of the population ceases to believe in it, the country will go deeper and deeper into ... opu. As for the defense, as a former military man, I can say one thing: you don’t even need to fight with us. It is enough for 2-3 weeks to stop the supply of food to Moscow and St. Petersburg. And then the snickering bastard with aristocratic habits will not only throw the GDP from the Kremlin, but will get the Lord God out of heaven, because he would not want to eat the stew 30 years ago from the warehouses of the State Reserve ...
    1. dmit-xnumx
      dmit-xnumx 11 August 2013 14: 52 New
      +3
      "He who wears a copper shield, he has a copper forehead ..." - as Khoja Nasreddin accurately and subtly remarked at L. Solovyov! But you didn’t think that our “foolish with aristocratic manners” would board their helicopter planes and fly away, because you can also manage on-line, but will children and old people, and other able-bodied people, go hungry?
      1. optimist
        optimist 11 August 2013 15: 12 New
        +3
        Quote: dmit-52
        But you didn’t think that our “foolish with aristocratic manners” would board their helicopter planes and fly away, because you can also manage on-line, but will children and old people, and other able-bodied people, go hungry?

        Namely, I meant them. There is no need to worry about Abramovich’s and Deripaska’s + nomenclature and higher bureaucracy: they have everything “on the ointment”. But in both capitals (as, indeed, throughout Russia), there are many who want to get out of the mud to riches and seize the capitalist "nishtyaks." So they will be the "driving force" ....
        1. ivshubarin
          ivshubarin 11 August 2013 15: 16 New
          0
          Let them fall to London, but quickly.
    2. Normal
      Normal 11 August 2013 15: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: optimist
      Enough for 2-3 weeks to stop the supply of food to Moscow and St. Petersburg

      Unfortunately, everything is much simpler. It is enough to turn off electricity in Moscow for 3 days. And that’s all ...
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 11 August 2013 15: 36 New
        0
        C'mon, 2-3 days ... Everyone has strategic reserves, and everyone still has good things in their summer cottages. More than a month, it will be hard.
        1. Normal
          Normal 11 August 2013 16: 58 New
          +3
          Quote: fzr1000
          C'mon, 2-3 days ...

          What about cold storage plants with chlorine and ammonia reserves? And hospitals, and transport? And the lack of water and sewage? And millions who don’t know what to do with themselves? Presented? That's the same ...
          1. optimist
            optimist 11 August 2013 17: 28 New
            +4
            Quote: Normal
            What about cold storage plants with chlorine and ammonia reserves? And hospitals, and transport? And the lack of water and sewage? And millions who don’t know what to do with themselves? Presented? That's the same ...

            The point here is not even in time and methods, but in principle. 22 years ago, the United States managed to destroy the Soviet Union and destroy Soviet power without firing a shot, with the hands of the Russeians themselves. And now it costs them nothing to easily repeat such a "trick" (especially since most of the modern Russian "elite" keep their families, property and money in the preconditioned "west"). All breedality is to maintain the current status quo when we play completely according to their rules and desires. Well, imagine: for hell do they need an open military conflict with Russia while it sells its resources for painted candy wrappers? Now imagine what will happen in the case of the same "vigorous" strike? Yes, capitals, control centers, etc. are destroyed. But vast territories are infected, and all the forests are full of evil, hungry and unshaven Russian men with "Kalash" from the broken warehouses. Can you imagine how much effort and resources are needed for the extraction, transportation and protection of "Russian riches" ??? So let everything go on as before: the Obama-type “middle finger” type gdp continues to destroy the Russian people, replace them with migrants, wear and tear infrastructure, etc. And we will argue at this forum, "who has thicker rockets!" laughing
            1. Normal
              Normal 11 August 2013 19: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: optimist
              , "whose rockets are thicker"!

              And longer ...
            2. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 11 August 2013 21: 45 New
              0
              Quote: optimist
              22 years ago, the United States managed to destroy the Soviet Union and destroy Soviet power without firing a shot, with the hands of the Russeians themselves

              Alexey - my conclusions coincide with yours in 99% of cases, but this ... This is nonsense.

              In order for a thief to steal, you do not need to bribe this thief.
    3. kanevsvv
      kanevsvv 11 August 2013 15: 56 New
      +1
      Basically you are right, but do not forget that in addition to the "snickering cattle in Moscow and St. Petersburg" there is the rest of Russia and we can make them eat not only stew, and not only eat ...
    4. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 11 August 2013 16: 42 New
      +1
      In my opinion, everything is not as flat as you state, although I absolutely agree with the main idea. The very Herzen-Leninist thesis: “they are terribly far from the people,” is absolutely relevant now and the split is skillfully built on this. The liberals are yelling about the patriots, the patriots are yelling about the liberals. Mutual revelations pour in, "as if from a horn ...". "Where to go to a simple peasant"?
      Let us, at least you (we) beware of primitive judgments.
      In this, I am completely on the side of the patriotic wing at the initiative of my peer, military colleague and State Duma Deputy Yevgeny Fedorov. It just demonstrates a non-flat approach to the current situation.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 11 August 2013 21: 58 New
        0
        Quote: Peaceful military
        In this, I am completely on the side of the patriotic wing at the initiative of my peer, military colleague and State Duma Deputy Yevgeny Fedorov.

        I highly recommend to follow the link, read, listen, check what has been said and think very hard.

        http://via-midgard.info/news/edinoross-fyodorov-stavlennik-chubajsa-lozh.htm


        PS You did not "remind" me the main signs of the occupation.
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 12 August 2013 13: 57 New
          -2
          Lying. We called it counter-propaganda, but the site itself is just obscurantism. What obscurantists can say light about really bright non obscurantists? If you are for obscurantists, then I am truly sorry for you.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 12 August 2013 15: 15 New
            0
            You do not call it a lie that disagrees with your belief system, but check the information - the algorithm is given there.

            As for the site, this article is a repost from “However,” and it has nothing to do with this really obscurantist site - it’s just, you know, convenient when the video and text are at the same address.
          2. Normal
            Normal 12 August 2013 21: 49 New
            -1
            Quote: Peaceful military
            really bright

            Is this Fedorov really bright? He is really fat and specifically thinner (without the letters "p" and "d"). You still can’t find such a demagogue and a liar, but you won’t find it. Chubais nestling.
        2. sleepy
          sleepy 13 August 2013 05: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Yarosvet
          "I highly recommend following the link, reading, listening,
          check what has been said and think very hard. "


          http://via-midgard.info/news/edinoross-fyodorov-stavlennik-chubajsa-lozh.htm

          Link does not work. Is there another?
  25. Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 11 August 2013 13: 03 New
    +2
    “If we talk about the level of the Soviet armed forces, today we don’t even have to dream about this level. The whole country worked for the Soviet armed forces, the best resources went to create, strengthen and expand them. The best minds of universities went to the defense industry, money went there in an avalanche strategic metals were sent. It is impossible to repeat this in modern conditions, and, given the current budget, it’s hardly necessary: ​​"I don’t agree with the author about this to our defense industry and it’s necessary to remove the commercial component, to stop the contractors making big money on the country's defense, to return tight state control and personal criminal responsibility of both officials and contractors. Put a couple of presumptuous businessmen and officials for life and everything will work. But this requires a host who will not flirt with the "elites" and will not allow these processes important for the country's defense to regulate the market.
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 August 2013 13: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      "If we talk about the level of the Soviet armed forces, today we do not have to dream about this bar

      And why dream about what we don’t need right now. Russia today is not preparing for war with the whole world, our tasks are more modest and more realistic - to provide reliable protection for the country and, if necessary, provide support to the allies ...
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 11 August 2013 13: 29 New
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: Ruslan_F38
        "If we talk about the level of the Soviet armed forces, today we do not have to dream about this bar

        And why dream about what we don’t need right now. Russia today is not preparing for war with the whole world, our tasks are more modest and more realistic - to provide reliable protection for the country and, if necessary, provide support to the allies ...


        No need to dream - you need to strive for this. And the level at which we will provide ourselves with reliable protection of the country and, if necessary, will help the allies, and in my opinion there is the level of the USSR Armed Forces.
        1. Starina_hank
          Starina_hank 11 August 2013 19: 12 New
          -2
          A strange dream - to fight the whole world, on ... why dream about it?
  26. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 11 August 2013 13: 04 New
    0
    The United States is in serious trouble now, even there is no money to repair the submarine. So reducing the fleet, they can catch up with us.
  27. Ulan
    Ulan 11 August 2013 13: 05 New
    +3
    It is clear that we will not succeed in repeating the USSR. But it is imperative to analyze and take the best. Undoubtedly, this is not a quick task. Thank God that the Yeltsin’s gang (and Gorbi) did not manage to completely destroy the military-industrial complex.
    The problem is complex.
    Undoubtedly the cadres - while there are still old cadres, it is necessary that they train the shift and that it gain experience. Therefore, it is necessary to raise the prestige of working in the defense industry and not to Uncle Abramovich.
    This can be done not only at the expense of higher salaries, but also at the expense of social apartments, kindergartens, etc.
    The second modernization of the military industry, new production, equipment, technology. Otherwise, it will not work to produce modern weapons on the old one. And this is done by the way.
    Well, military science. To create the best, perfect, qualitatively exceeding foreign.
    There are a few more points, for example, the creation of duplicate enterprises so that they remained in the former Soviet republics.
    Well, we can achieve the power of the USSR only in one case, reviving the USSR in a new quality.
  28. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 11 August 2013 13: 11 New
    +5
    Today, Russia can, rather, be equated with the fleets of European powers; well, maybe try to reach for the Chinese, whose military budget, however, is much larger than ours. But we can’t compete with the United States, what we did in Soviet times.

    Reasoning fool.
    We don’t need to compete with the Yankees by the fleets, we are not going to occupy USA.
    We have something to protect our coasts and the merchant fleet from invasion, and we don’t need more.
    To create and maintain a powerful fleet we need a lot of money, deductions from profits for shipping, we need non-freezing ports, with free access to the oceans, and we don’t have either, and it’s unlikely to be in the 21st century and the 3rd millennium.
  29. xomaNN
    xomaNN 11 August 2013 13: 19 New
    -1
    But is it necessary to follow the path of multiplying the number of the same tanks? If you create a really powerful modern tank on the basis of Armata or another, which can and will be more expensive two to three times, but in battle it will cost five former. And the crews will need to be much less.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 11 August 2013 17: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: xomaNN
      But is it necessary to follow the path of multiplying the number of the same tanks? If you create a really powerful modern tank on the basis of Armata or another, which can and will be more expensive two to three times, but in battle it will cost five former. And the crews will need to be much less.

      This is the wrong way. There is an opinion that it is better to do less but better - this is the wrong opinion. Three barrels are better than one, and no sophisticated armor and advanced electronics compensate for the quantitative difference.
  30. deman73
    deman73 11 August 2013 13: 23 New
    0
    it’s always easy to break, but building a new one is hard - so don’t think that everything can be quickly restored
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 11 August 2013 13: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: deman73
      it’s always easy to break, but building a new one is hard - so don’t think that everything can be quickly restored

      What to recover?
      In the Urals, and in Siberia too, all defense industry enterprises operate, the only thing that limits their deployment to full capacity is the lack of orders.
      Most of the enterprises were modernized in the late 80s and early 90s, while there was still budget financing and they are in no way inferior to Western enterprises either in terms of equipment or quality of products, and some surpass them significantly.
      The USSR was in many ways ahead of the West for decades, and therefore they were afraid of us.
      1. rereture
        rereture 11 August 2013 13: 53 New
        -1
        lack of orders


        Because in Soviet times, weapons were riveted to three world wars (the experience of the Great Patriotic War affected), and in order to set up a new one, it is necessary to utilize or realize the old, it’s like the Yankens are done either by the population or by undeveloped countries, and we, on the contrary, are old in warehouses, and new sell.
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 11 August 2013 14: 10 New
          0
          Quote: rereture
          "... that’s how the Yankens are doing - either to the population or to undeveloped countries ..."


          It’s good for Americans - they keep tanks in garages ...
          "US citizens, in addition to rifles and pistols in their houses, keep armored vehicles ready for battle in garages, the most popular tanks are from the Second World War, writes the American media.
          Keeping the tank in your garage is expensive.
          Its overhaul will cost $ 100 thousand, and fuel consumption
          per 100 kilometers can exceed 300 liters.
          In the United States, any owner of a tank can maintain it in a state of readiness if it is able to get shells. "
          http://3mv.ru/publ/amerikancy_derzhat_v_garazhakh_tanki/1-1-0-14594
          1. rereture
            rereture 11 August 2013 14: 14 New
            0
            I meant small arms, or even easier, under the press, as they did in Germany.
            1. sleepy
              sleepy 11 August 2013 14: 23 New
              +1
              There is a demand for decommissioned armored vehicles in Russia.
              When will the offer be?
        2. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 11 August 2013 14: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: rereture
          lack of orders


          Because in Soviet times, weapons were riveted to three world wars (the experience of the Great Patriotic War affected), and in order to set up a new one, it is necessary to utilize or realize the old, it’s like the Yankens are done either by the population or by undeveloped countries, and we, on the contrary, are old in warehouses, and new sell.

          Everything old has been disposed of for a long time, from the late 80s tanks, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers and other equipment from the ATS and republics were brought to the Ural factories, for remelting, I watched daily from the window of my office how armored vehicles were transported, unloaded and dismantled. A huge area of ​​2 stadiums was constantly packed to capacity.
          Of the 66 thousand tanks by 2000, only 22 thousand remained in service.
          A lot of tanks were sold abroad from t-34 to t-72.
      2. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 11 August 2013 19: 23 New
        +3
        The deepest and most dangerous error!
  31. Valery-SPB
    Valery-SPB 11 August 2013 13: 23 New
    +3
    According to the content of the article, from two positions: pricing was better in the USSR, it follows that with the pricing of military products it was better.
    Let me not believe the author. This hydra also stayed in the USSR. Checking one defense shipbuilding plant in those old years, I was surprised to learn that a rate of 40% was added to the ship’s pricing system, increasing the cost of the final product!
  32. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 11 August 2013 13: 24 New
    +8
    Quote: Selevc
    Russia is now very far from Soviet military standards - but the standard of living has increased many times over in comparison with the USSR !!!


    Good lord! How old are you? If you talk like that, then during the USSR there were no computers, satellite TV, Internet, and a lot of rubbish in the houses ... Medicine was free, kindergarten, school, technical school and institute were free. And so on. By the way: sausage - everyone was present in the refrigerator. The most real, meat, not like the current one - with the smell or taste of meat.
    NOW CAPITALISM - anything for your money. But not everyone has it ...
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 11 August 2013 14: 21 New
      +4
      Quote: AleksUkr
      NOW CAPITALISM - anything for your money. But not everyone has it ...

      More precisely, they are not allowed to earn money (we are talking about the fair payment of skilled wage labor), i.e., the capitalist is ready to любые actions to “optimize” production costs ...

      With this comment, I think it is appropriate to respond to the remark rereture and at the same time "in bulk" ivshubarin :
      And what prevents earning?

      What prevents a bad dancer.
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 11 August 2013 14: 54 New
        -7
        In 90, many had equal opportunities to become bourgeois, I missed my opportunity. You probably too.
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 11 August 2013 16: 48 New
          +1
          ivshubarin

          By the words "the opportunity to become bourgeois" you probably mean the word "steal"?

          I also “missed” this opportunity and do not regret it.

          Spell it all by your own names. Living easier is less - less confusion!
          1. ivshubarin
            ivshubarin 12 August 2013 11: 01 New
            0
            Why immediately stole. A classmate was selling eggs on the street in the 90s. Now he has a plant for the production of crushed stone and marble. No one stopped the others from starting the same way.
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 11 August 2013 21: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: ivshubarin
          In 90, many had equal opportunities to become bourgeois, I missed my opportunity. You probably too.

          Industry is not the “Bourgeois” (owner of the means of production), it is the economic pillar of the state. Its basis is made up of competent engineers and technicians of all levels and highly skilled workers.
    2. poquello
      poquello 11 August 2013 22: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: AleksUkr
      Quote: Selevc
      Russia is now very far from Soviet military standards - but the standard of living has increased many times over in comparison with the USSR !!!


      By the way: sausage - everyone was present in the refrigerator. The most real, meat, not like the current one - with the smell or taste of meat.

      And indeed it was, sometimes.
      1. Bort radist
        Bort radist 12 August 2013 07: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: poquello
        And indeed it was, sometimes.

        They went to Moscow for her.
  33. rereture
    rereture 11 August 2013 13: 32 New
    -4
    Quote: AleksUkr
    But not everyone has them ...

    And what prevents earning? wink
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 11 August 2013 13: 38 New
      0
      The question is rather rhetorical. A friend graduated from the university with a degree in jurisprudence; 6 times they offered a job (permanent). He refused, but now it is already working. The search took about 6 months.
    2. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 11 August 2013 13: 43 New
      -1
      What prevents a bad dancer.
    3. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 11 August 2013 13: 53 New
      10
      Quote: rereture
      Quote: AleksUkr
      But not everyone has them ...

      And what prevents earning? wink

      Conscience interferes. I, a highly qualified engineer with 40 years of experience, will do my job, and I will not go to sell diapers, gaskets, rags and other foreign rubbish, even if it is 100 times more profitable. It is possible to replace me, but it is extremely difficult, the personnel failure of the 90s has not yet been eliminated.
  34. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 11 August 2013 13: 35 New
    +1
    Our defense today is far from Soviet standards

    Also, I discovered America. About all these problems, and the fact that they can’t be solved in the shortest possible time is well known without it. But the ways in which the author suggests achieving success are not clear. By this, by the way, the whole belolentochny brethren sin
  35. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 11 August 2013 13: 39 New
    +3
    The Russians never feared anyone and knew how to stand up for themselves .. Our problem was always the same "Until the thunder strikes a man crosses himself" and "We slowly harness .. but we drive fast ..) Thunder struck in Russia ... Harness while slowly .. Here is such an association I had ..
  36. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 11 August 2013 13: 42 New
    +2
    The USA is simpler than we have practically no ground-based air defense systems. Canada and Mexico do not threaten them. Therefore, all the emphasis on the fleet. And we need to make a bias on the development of the submarine fleet, like the Germans during the Second World War. Cheap, secretive and powerful. What noise was in America when last year our boat was discovered near its waters.
  37. Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 11 August 2013 13: 42 New
    +1
    yes, the price of betrayal is high! But life goes on. The main thing is different: they not only talk about the army, but also do the necessary work. The army is changing and this is important. It is important not how we evaluate this work, but how our "partners" look at it! The number of tantrums is increasing, which means the direction of movement is right!
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 11 August 2013 13: 47 New
      -5
      The army is changing and becoming more like an Emergencies Ministry. Fires extinguish, floods. Even the uniform of the Ministry of Emergencies was put on the generals.
      1. kanevsvv
        kanevsvv 11 August 2013 16: 07 New
        +2
        Putting out fires and participating in disaster management is not bad, one of the elements of preparation. In any case, better than painting the grass.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 11 August 2013 22: 20 New
          +1
          Quote: kanevsvv
          Putting out fires and participating in disaster management is not bad, one of the elements of preparation. In any case, better than painting the grass.

          Take, for example, the involvement in the liquidation of the consequences of a flood of engineering and engineering units of the Moscow Region ...
          Even if they don’t have to make the crossing, then at least the advancement of the units and their deployment on the ground would be worked out, which in itself is not bad.
        2. ivshubarin
          ivshubarin 12 August 2013 11: 05 New
          -1
          I did not say that putting out fires is bad. Just one minister ordered furniture for the Navy in England, the second saves. When the minister will be a military with lieutenants.
      2. AleksUkr
        AleksUkr 11 August 2013 16: 48 New
        +1
        Our army is workers and peasants. It is folk flesh. Therefore, it helps in the elimination of various emergency situations. Do you not like that?
      3. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 11 August 2013 18: 27 New
        +3
        Quote: ivshubarin
        The army is changing and becoming more like an Emergencies Ministry. Fires extinguish, floods. Even the uniform of the Ministry of Emergencies was put on the generals.

        The participation of the army in the elimination of disasters and the salvation of civilians, even during the database, is a worldwide practice. And who, if not the army?
        The army is not a cardboard fool or a garden scarecrow, but an organization consisting of predominantly strong young men with good physical training and they save fellow citizens - grandfathers, grandmothers, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters of the same guys as themselves.
      4. svp67
        svp67 11 August 2013 18: 39 New
        +3
        Quote: ivshubarin
        The army is changing and becoming more like an Emergencies Ministry
        If you do not know, then know that the Ministry of Emergencies includes civil defense troops - dressed in uniform and equipped with equipment and armed as in the Armed Forces. But even the units and subunits of the Armed Forces themselves, especially the engineering ones, do not interfere in the event of any cataclysms to provide assistance in the elimination of emergencies. This is also a kind of study and training.
      5. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 11 August 2013 19: 32 New
        +2
        In my opinion, the Ministry of Emergencies is our hidden army! wink
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 August 2013 21: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Starina_Hank
          In my opinion, the Ministry of Emergencies is our hidden army!
          For this reason, it is very difficult for our Ministry of Emergency Situations units to travel abroad, since by international standards it is considered paramilitary and with all the ensuing consequences ...
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 11 August 2013 22: 25 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            For this reason, it is very difficult for our Ministry of Emergency Situations units to travel abroad, since by international standards it is considered paramilitary and with all the ensuing consequences ...

            So much the worse for “abroad”, our Ministry of Emergency Situations is a serious structure, you can learn a lot from it, and in the end it could help a lot ...
  38. novobranets
    novobranets 11 August 2013 13: 44 New
    +1
    Russia's military budget today is an order of magnitude lower than what it was in the USSR, although it still remains at a decent level - about 3,5% of GDP.
    It’s interesting, but what is the rest 96,5% spent on? Health care, social protection and education? Does not look like it. request
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 11 August 2013 13: 51 New
      +3
      I don’t know about you, but in our Hub. edge of the teacher less than 25 thousand. they don’t get. Not to mention the cops and the military. Father is a former officer retirement 22 thousand.
  39. Colonelic
    Colonelic 11 August 2013 14: 00 New
    +3
    Quote: Vlad_Mir
    yes, the price of betrayal is high! But life goes on. The main thing is different: they not only talk about the army, but also do the necessary work. The army is changing and this is important. It is important not how we evaluate this work, but how our "partners" look at it! The number of tantrums is increasing, which means the direction of movement is right!
    I agree! In my opinion, this is the right criterion for assessing what is happening in the sun ...
  40. svp67
    svp67 11 August 2013 14: 10 New
    +2
    Now the main thing is not to repeat the mistakes of the USSR, but to use the "rise" in the military-industrial complex, as the "locomotive" of the general "economic recovery" ...
    1. kanevsvv
      kanevsvv 11 August 2013 16: 13 New
      0
      So for sure, the economy will only benefit from this. "American Dream" also began with the orders of the military-industrial complex of 41-45
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 12 August 2013 00: 34 New
        0
        Quote: kanevsvv
        So for sure, the economy will only benefit from this. "American Dream" also began with the orders of the military-industrial complex of 41-45

        41-45 is the peak of the US military-industrial complex, the foundation of which began to be laid as an element of overcoming the crisis of the Great Depression ...
  41. Bombowoz
    Bombowoz 11 August 2013 14: 23 New
    +3
    In those days there was an arms race and our whole economy worked for it. The rest of the world worked for the USA. Their military doctrine is focused on aggression, ours on defense. And therefore there is nothing to chase after them. You need as much as you need to repel aggression. We have the technology for this, and not worse, or even better. According to Proton M, I think there was sabotage. The second fall and both with GLONASS - can no longer be negligence. And the Chinese, and without arms, you want to trample, if in small groups of 5 million people. will land.
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 11 August 2013 14: 49 New
      -3
      The Chinese are not warriors. Proved by history, the development of Dauria by the Cossacks, occupation by a coalition of states, occupation by the British, occupation by the Japanese, Vietnam, Damansky.
  42. Alexander borey
    Alexander borey 11 August 2013 14: 32 New
    +3
    I would not be so pessimistic about the Army and Navy. There are positive changes. Also, in my opinion, a gross mistake was made in the article: "There can be no talk of rivalry with the United States - if we could keep up with China, the expert says." - The mistake is that the “expert” considers it necessary to compete with someone and catch up with someone ... First, we simply don’t need it, and secondly, this obviously puts us in a losing position, from the very beginning. Catching up will always be behind, but creating YOURS is what we need. Enough to look and look around at the armies of the USA, China, NATO, etc. We must build our Armed forces without looking back at ANYONE. Proceed from modern threats, the nature of military conflicts, the mentality, size of Russia, the geographical location of our country and other specific factors inherent only in Russia.
    Russia is a unique country, and the templates do not suit us, comparisons with other armies are also not worth it. In modern military conflicts, the model of the Soviet Army is also not applicable: avalanches of tanks and legions of soldiers can do little in urban combat, no one dares to level cities in local conflicts. It is enough to recall the New Year's storm of Grozny in 1994-1995. And in a global war with the United States or China, the world will be destroyed in a few hours, in spite of any ships and millions of soldiers.
    The United States puts on its fleet because their lair is on the other side of the Atlantic, and they engage in robbery exclusively in the Eastern Hemisphere. They have no choice but to develop a fleet. China has its own characteristics, as indeed any other country.
    It is enough to compare and analyze the state of the Russian Armed Forces 5-8 years ago and now, and the opinions of experts will immediately crumble. Technique is being built, “things” are going on, exercises are being conducted, the defense industry is being modernized. Slow? May be. But the process is running, things started off the ground. There are certainly problems and will always be, without this in any way. The army is a huge complex organism that you need to constantly monitor.
    The main emphasis should be placed on nuclear weapons and their delivery systems, air defense / missile defense systems, cruise missiles, operational tactical missiles, military robots, including and UAV. It is also necessary to withdraw from the START Treaty and the INF Treaty. This does not mean that the rest of the line of weapons must be abandoned and all R&D closed. EVERYTHING needs to be developed, but there is one "BUT". The main thing is not to tear yourself up, because we don’t have a printing machine for bucks. And the phenomenon of the American defense industry is that they can spend as much as they want on weapons. They print candy wrappers and make ultra-modern weapons and military equipment in any quantities on these candy wrappers. I repeat, we are deprived of such "privileges."
    GPV-2020 is in full swing and it is not worth writing hasty conclusions.
  43. 77bob1973
    77bob1973 11 August 2013 14: 33 New
    +1
    Comparing our fleet with the Chinese is not right, with all the superiority of the Chinese military budget, they are still far from getting a lot of surface ships, but big problems with the construction of submarines. At the same time, all the ships we have built must be divided into four fleets. It is easier for the Chinese to build up fleet forces since there is only one fleet.
  44. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 11 August 2013 14: 35 New
    0
    The military-industrial complex has always been the locomotive of Russia ..Ever since the time of Peter the Great .. The Navy and the Army brought Russia to the world level as a Power that they reckoned with and respected..Others have no other way .. Our ancestors left a huge territory for us .. a lot lately from us they took away but the backbone remained .. Now the tipping point is coming .. Either there is Russia or it is simply torn to pieces by Anglo-Saxon sharks .. and our librarians .. Many rulers of Russia have turned over more than once in coffins despite what is happening in Russia .. Can we really lose ... mother = Russia .. ??
  45. Naval
    Naval 11 August 2013 14: 48 New
    +2
    As prof. Preobrazhensky: “Devastation is not in closets, devastation is in the heads” and one must start with ideology. And when, finally, we get the national idea, everything will form by itself. In the meantime, it’s a shame to read this, but you catch yourself thinking, a shame because in many respects the truth ... hi
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 11 August 2013 22: 16 New
      -1
      Quote: Naval
      As prof. Preobrazhensky: “Devastation is not in closets, devastation is in the heads” and one must start with ideology. And when, finally, we get the national idea, everything will form by itself.

      1 Do not confuse the national idea with ideology.
      2 Ideology is spelled out in the body of the Constitution, and it is not even bad at all.
      3 Of course, nothing is ever formed.
  46. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 11 August 2013 14: 51 New
    -1
    Comparing the defense capabilities of the USSR and the USA is incorrect. In the USSR, almost the entire industry of the country worked for defense. Giant funds that went into defense tore the country's economy and led to the collapse of the USSR. Trying to achieve the level of military power at the level of the USSR means knowingly going to the collapse of Russia. There is such a thing - sufficient defense need. Maintaining it at the level of guaranteed repulse of external aggression is the main task. In Soviet times, pricing was formed by the State Planning Commission. Therefore, no problems arose. In current market relations, manufacturers of military equipment, being often monopolists in their industries, dictate prices to the customer. This is where the state should think about how to moderate their appetites. During the years of "reform" of the defense department, the institution of military representatives was practically destroyed. But they stood guard over the quality of manufactured military products. And now what? Missiles explode at the start, satellites fall into the ocean, and soldiers put on such uniforms that they freeze in winter. It turns out a complete mess! These problems can and should be solved as soon as possible.
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 11 August 2013 15: 00 New
      0
      At that time, not only the USSR was torn, but also the States. Just Hunchback gave up earlier. If the USSR lasted another year, maybe everything was different.
      1. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 11 August 2013 18: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: ivshubarin
        At that time, not only the USSR was torn, but also the States. Just Hunchback gave up earlier. If the USSR lasted another year, maybe everything was different.

        The Yankees were on the verge of financial collapse already in the 80s, only the USSR's departure from world politics unleashed their dirty paws for robbery and saved them from bankruptcy.
        In addition, we must not forget that the United States is part of NATO and due to the developed countries of Western Europe they could spend significantly less on defense than the USSR, even taking into account the ATS.
    2. sergey72
      sergey72 11 August 2013 15: 04 New
      0
      "... And the soldiers put on such junk ..." I went here with my wife to the Fabrics store and in the Military section I saw our "figure" - Chinese fabric !!!!
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 11 August 2013 15: 14 New
        -1
        Now they are moving to a new form. This year, SEE will change clothes. 13 ply.
    3. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 11 August 2013 18: 48 New
      +5
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Comparing the defense capabilities of the USSR and the USA is incorrect. In the USSR, almost the entire industry of the country worked for defense. Giant funds that went into defense tore the country's economy and led to the collapse of the USSR.

      Just do not lie.
      The USSR spent about 20 billion rubles on the military-industrial complex and the army. per year, with total government spending of 460 billion rubles. per year (1988 data)
      Millions of peaceful equipment were produced in the USSR, and this is also industry, clothes, shoes, dishes, etc. and provided all his needs.
      Defense economics did not tear any economy of the USSR, the USSR could invest even more, without noticeable efforts.
      The Soviet economy began to deliberately slow down and disintegrate the spotted Judah Gorbi and his associates, the Transformer Communists in the 80s, and destroyed the drunkard Ben in the mid-90s.
  47. Zomanus
    Zomanus 11 August 2013 15: 13 New
    +9
    Correctly written in the article. When a man of labor is reduced to the level of cattle, what can we talk about? Yes, there are not enough workers, but they are not willing to pay them with dignity. And I'm not talking about awesomely skilled workers, a middle and lower level link is also needed. It is from them that we get the masters of their craft. But then they don’t even go to the factories to work, for pennies and without a visible prospect. We say the same thing about science. When everything is based on the principle of “working for a good name” and “talent should be hungry” we won’t get anything worthwhile. First give (salary. Housing) and then either add or select. Well, plus a huge social stratification. When the director of the same factory spends a monthly salary for a worker for one trip to the tavern.
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 11 August 2013 15: 21 New
      +3
      It is a fact. In the USSR there was a cult of working professions, and now they are cultivating pop music, why bend your back when you can get into HOUSE-2.
  48. Zomanus
    Zomanus 11 August 2013 15: 23 New
    +3
    And then, that you all went wrong "Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroyed it, too." Most importantly, the people themselves have changed. Now they are not looking for benefits for the country, now they are looking for benefits personally for themselves. And even if you return all those plants and so on, in the same way they will all be sold and stolen. Stop being afraid, lose the shores ...
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 11 August 2013 15: 29 New
      +1
      The last patriot of Russia was Stalin I.V.
    2. lewerlin53rus
      lewerlin53rus 11 August 2013 15: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: Zomanus
      They stopped being afraid, they lost the banks.

      That's for sure. It is from impunity that everything negative happens that happens. Even repression is not necessary. All laws are necessary. The inevitability of punishment is necessary. And if the thief is confident that he can avoid punishment, then he will steal.
    3. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 11 August 2013 19: 43 New
      -2
      Sorry, what kind of ideology is this and the people.
  49. regsSSSR
    regsSSSR 11 August 2013 15: 35 New
    0
    Yes! in this period of time, we don’t have to dream about a powerful army yet, but now we have other tasks and there’s no dominance in the world; now we need to reunite the territorial integrity of the former united organism of the USSR and the main tasks of the army and navy to keep sovereignty within our borders from a possible invasion of an external enemy and keep the peace of order in the entire post-Soviet space! right now, the principle issue is the survival and preservation of the entire territory (and resource base) of Russia and, if possible, the entire former Union! Well, if possible, shove wherever possible sticks to the wheels to the root of America, which has become impudent and stupid from its own unpunished freedom!)) that we do the shas in the principle)))
  50. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 11 August 2013 16: 04 New
    +5
    The military status was well raised. Previously, a familiar officer, after being on duty in a garage, made furniture to order. Now the salary is 100 thousand. carpentry equipment sold. I bought an SUV. But they go down to selling rations and forms.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 11 August 2013 16: 53 New
      +3
      ivshubarin

      The status of an officer is not only measured by monetary allowance.
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 11 August 2013 17: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: ivshubarin
      The military status was well raised. Previously, a familiar officer, after being on duty in a garage, made furniture to order. Now the salary is 100 thousand. carpentry equipment sold. I bought an SUV. But they go down to selling rations and forms.

      We have all the leitechs, in a year, at least they drive cars for an average of 600.000 rubles.
      And I was pinned, 3 fighters in the spring on a demobilization in their cars left. Let used Lada, but still ... smile