Military Review

Why does Pogosyan’s tail spin the rest of the dog?

189
Dmitry Rogozin instructed the Ministry of Industry and Trade together with the United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC) to prepare a report on the development strategy of this corporation. August 14 The Military-Industrial (MIC) Commission at the Government of the Russian Federation will consider the problematic issues of the production of civil aircraft in Russia. I wonder what the president of the KLA, Mikhail Pogosyan, will offer at the military industrial complex? Will he carve himself like a non-commissioned officer's widow? It is doubtful that Pogosyan settled in the UAC for a long time, he already attached his son to the case, made him the senior vice president of Sukhoi Civil Aircraft CJSC.


Uak at gunpoint


Just a week ago, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, at a meeting in the government on civil and military aircraft industry, made several landmark phrases:

- Despite all the measures taken, the civilian market aviation in the Russian Federation is largely lost by our industrialists, our industrialists. We will not remember why this happened, all the time nod to the past, but the fact remains - until 80% all aircraft operating on civilian lines within the country are of foreign manufacture. Situation intolerable;

- It is urgently necessary to return the prestige of design offices, those design stamps that had national and international importance. These are such national drivers - Tupolev, Sukhoi, MiG, Yakovlev and other well-known brands, now it is not clear how they are pushed to the back, which are now being replaced by incomprehensible abbreviations that are completely faceless and tearing apart the tree of a single generation of design ideas of Russia.

To understand what is happening in the industry that the Pogosyan & Sons group has “privatized”, met with one of the oldest employees of Tupolev OJSC Vladimir Ivanovich Skrynnik. He is a specialist in aircraft control systems. Former pilot, after the accident he returned to aviation as an engineer and 43, gave the Tupolev company. Introducing himself, he said:

- I created the 21 system for a wide variety of aircraft. And when TsAGI reported: “we made brains for the Superjet, I was surprised. The half of these “brains” was made by V.M. Razumikhin, well, part, of course, mine. The theft is on, but I don’t feel sorry - I’m creating control systems not for myself, but for aviation.

Vladimir Skrynnik considers the general designer of Alexander Yakovlev to be the prototype of Pogosyan in the domestic aircraft industry. He is also a great writer, advertiser and a person close to power. He was never invited by Tupolev to any events, from birthday parties to celebrations on the delivery of new equipment. Yakovlev, in order to push through the Yak-42 series, a whole operation was carried out with access to L.I. Brezhnev through his former personal pilot and Minister of Civil Aviation Boris Bugayev. And Skrynnik remembers something else:

- I was shown how the Yak-40 was sold abroad. He stands in the hangar stripped "Yak", chairs and avionics - aside, the engines removed. Almost naked glider with chassis. That's what the capitalists and bought in Europe, put their engines, electronics, beauty. Doesn’t it really remind you of the “Superjet” collected from the world?

At MAKS-2009 Pogosyan was extremely important to present the plane to its main curator - V. Putin. "Superjet" took off and disappeared. Then they announce - sat down. The aircraft itself is not visible. To divert attention quickly organized ostentatious release of hostages with the participation of helicopters and special forces. And under the guise of "Superjet" quietly rolled into the parking lot. It happened - on the plane did not work reverse engines and brakes. It is good that in Zhukovsky the runway is almost 5 kilometers long.

21 July 2013 at the airport in Keflavik (Iceland) on the “Sukhoi Superjet 100” aircraft was not lucky - landing on the belly. This is how Igor Vinogradov, First Vice-President for Quality and Certification of CJSC GSS, spoke about this on the air of Finam FM radio station:
- The plane landed with landing gear, then broke the trajectory and went to the second round. Naturally, the chassis began to clean up. At that moment an incident occurred. The chassis and the plane worked perfectly nominally ... We will understand the reason why, after cleaning the landing gear and putting the plane into climb mode, we did not succeed in catching the engine.

A survey of experts and even aircraft designers gave reason to think - was everything normal? Perhaps summed up the lack of power at the power plant. The Russian-French engine SaM-146 is rather weak for the 3,5 weighted tonnes of aircraft. It also has an innate propensity to surge. Or did the imported “computers” of the aircraft show a temper and for moments (which was enough to fall) hang?

The specialists of Tupolevskaya’s company generally have their own point of view - it would be better if the Sukhoye did their work and built combat aircraft. Without a school of designing civilian cars, they absolutely in vain contacted the design of an airliner, albeit a small one. It is known that in civil aviation in the first place security, and the economy in the second.

In the military aviation company "Sukhoi" looks royally. But there are crew rescue facilities. Still, every step-up plane presented surprises. They fought on the tests, then, when a new technique with "childhood diseases" was transferred to the troops. For years, they have gotten rid of these diseases. Only over time, combat vehicles became almost unfailing. And designers of fighters and bombers are used to this.

The School of Civil Aviation implies that with passengers on board it is a crime to treat “childhood diseases”. But the leaders of the KLA and the GSS do not hesitate to talk about the "childhood diseases" of the "Superjet" and even receive billions from the state budget for them. In addition, the presence in the "Superjet" of many imported units and components significantly complicates the development of the aircraft - to many of what is installed on the ship, our engineers have no right to touch. Including climb into the most responsible, hot part of the engine, which is made in France.

Pogosyan in MAI was taught to design masters. But he apparently did not finish. Tupolev, Antonov, Ilyushin people will never give out a plane with such a crowd of "childhood diseases." The security chain is very long. The associates, designers, technologists, materials scientists ... But the last link is the crew. The task of the designers is to ensure that the aircraft does not go beyond the uncontrolled aerodynamic characteristics and reduce the load on the pilots. And the old designer Skrynnik adds:

- The fashion came to save on the crew. On the western liners, the flight engineers were removed, the crew became a two-member. And I, by virtue of the profession, analyze the accident and disaster. And I see that an extra pair of eyes is needed in a difficult situation. Many accidents in the presence of a flight engineer in the cabin simply would not have happened.

And “Motherland” was sold ...

NPO Rodina OJSC
specializes in the design of hydraulic systems for aviation. It is located on the Red Presnya. Now the upgrading of systems for the strategic missile carrier Tu-160 is carried out by the specialists of the Motherland in a rented outhouse at the former own enterprise. But there banks, restaurants and bars feel at ease. That is, the pests from ministries and state-owned companies sell their motherland in bulk and with impunity. And the neighboring factory "Rassvet", which now also "breathes its last," is obliged to mass-produce these systems.
Tu-334 never competed with the "Superjet"

Pogosyan shouldn’t bend his cheeks - he won the tender for a new regional airliner in a fight not with Tu-334 (102 places), and with Tu-324 (50 passengers). And beautifully drawn "Superjet" at the competition represented a regional aircraft on 50 seats. Tu-334 had already flown by that time, was certified and was in a completely different niche.

Tu-324as a plane, the competition won, moreover, it was great ahead of the “Superjet” in readiness, even the factory documentation was completed. When working on Tu-324 for the first time in Russia, an electronic model of the aircraft was created on the basis of PDM technologies.

But the palm was given to M. Pogosyan. He promised not to shake money from the state, but to build a new regional plane at the expense of extra-budgetary financing of the project. It was later, by virtue of the design "successes" and managerial talent, Pogosyan's airplane transferred to himself and sucked all the budgets of the aviation industry. Gradually he grew, gained fat, weight, and became a competitor with 98 passengers. Tu-334. Not in terms of design quality, but in terms of passenger capacity.

Fifth column

The people of Poghosian are placed in key places everywhere. Who is in command now? - Vladimir Ivanovich asks a question and answers himself:
- Alexander Bobryshev from Irkut. Pogosyan's Trojan Horse. Now everything is being done to avoid the Tu-214, Tu-204CM (a lot of money, by the way, has been pushed into the modernization and certification of the aircraft). The fifth column of Pogosyan taxis at the base Tupolev aircraft factory in Kazan - Bobryshev, in parallel, was appointed the general director of KAPO named after S.P. Gorbunova. The guide is not Tupolev, but "vprotymotrya".

Long-haul Tu-204-300 shows better results than A-320. Provides direct flights from Vladivostok to Moscow and St. Petersburg. So what? Plants are forbidden to take orders for him, to produce parts. There is one reason - Pogosyan and the company do not allow to work. Therefore, the whole team of Tupolev engines went to work at Irkut. In the same place on topic MC-21, Tupolev specialists in chassis and aerodynamics appeared.

Now, where you don’t go in, everything belongs to Marquis Carabas - Senor Pogosyan. Where are the pilot plants, experimental base? And we were thrown a bone, left a distant aircraft. I am happy for the Ukrainian engine and aircraft builders: they are not part of the KLA, which means they have a future. I once told the chief designer of the Tu-334 Igor Kalygin, when he was shining, was full of hope: “As long as the KLA exists, the Tu ‑ 334 series will not happen.”
In December last year, Tupolev arrived in Pogosyan to inspect the property. What was going on! The route was laid to him so that, God forbid, he did not get to Kalygin. These Tupolev Tu-334 roads for many reasons, including this:

- We did it in the absence of normal funding, hungry, cold. The company had no sewage, no salary, disconnected electricity. Tests and certification passed two machines instead of four.

For the kind of money that they threatened the Superjet, the stick can be taught to fly. We would have been given a part with Ilyushins, we would have shown decent cars.
The sentence of the KLA, Vladimir Skrynnik, has long been pronounced:

- So that we can develop, so that the Tupolev machines, the Tu-334, fly, there is only one way out - to withdraw Tupolev OJSC together with the KAPO aircraft factory from the UAC. And we will figure it out with President Bobryshev ...
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189 comments
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  1. ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 12 August 2013 15: 48
    -28 qualifying.
    A Super Jet flies to evil everyone. Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 12 August 2013 15: 57
      -12 qualifying.
      Market economy, competition, maybe not always fair ... maybe there was no person on "IL" who sold his product ...
      1. polkownik1
        polkownik1 12 August 2013 16: 49
        25
        Disgusting and extremely dangerous is the situation when something is "pushed through" in aviation. Such a system should be changed dramatically.
        1. vjhbc
          vjhbc 12 August 2013 21: 28
          0
          it’s all just ridiculous it’s all the same as in a war if you won it means the one who led it and if you lose the same one who led it the man said (I created 21 systems for a variety of airplanes. And when TsAGI reported: “we made brains for“ Superjet, "I was surprised. Half of these" brains "were made by the head of the Control and Control Center of Tupolev OJSC V. M. Razumikhin, and part of it, of course, is mine. Theft is on, but I don’t mind - I’m not a control system , but for aviation I’m creating) it’s like sybarite and everything like that, but in terms of meaning it sounds like I did something in Su there and on my side it’s right the plane is Su and not Tu and it’s all who is not interested who there is any contractor the main thing is what is applied to the fuselage
          Quote: polkownik1
          Disgusting and extremely dangerous is the situation when something is "pushed through" in aviation. Such a system should be changed dramatically.
        2. Zerstorer
          Zerstorer 13 August 2013 11: 41
          +1
          Quote: polkownik1
          Disgusting and extremely dangerous is the situation when something is "pushed through" in aviation. Such a system should be changed dramatically.

          Previously, there was the MAP (Ministry of Aviation Industry) everyone was pushing their product there.
          So in vain here are compared Yakovlev and Poghosyan. Yakovlev created in KB from scratch. Moreover, he created a school in which the transfer of experience took place. I do not detract from the merits of Adler and Schechter, but without Yakovlev there would be nothing.
      2. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 17: 19
        0
        IL sold its 476, which was produced in Tashkent.
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 12 August 2013 22: 19
          +3
          Quote: ivshubarin
          IL sold its 476, which was produced in Tashkent.

          Yes, if your "Karabas" had at least something a little bit like a transporter of such a class as the 76th, the hell would "Ilyushin" push through, the KLA would have pushed it into such an ass that we would not be talking about Ily would have heard. laughing
      3. yurii p
        yurii p 12 August 2013 21: 22
        +1
        to sell, as I understand it, to buy some voices of officials, like we live in a capital country and the methods of the Soviet era, although I forgot, people are the same, the communists became ed-Era or liberals, what clothes they don’t wear and the essence remains one.
      4. DPN
        DPN 12 August 2013 23: 21
        +1
        it seems that our government only knows how to crush and cut, and planes are not able to compare and look at business. While there is oil and gas, you can and do not worry in the west B.U. always sell.
      5. vjhbc
        vjhbc 13 August 2013 00: 01
        +2
        the market is not the market, but in the United States, if half of the carrier’s fleet isn’t theirs, conditions will be created for him that he will go bankrupt in a month and, moreover, will do everything within the framework of their much-vaunted freedom, well, they will pour on top like a patty patty
        ShturmKGB
        Market economy, competition, maybe not always fair ... maybe there was no person on "IL" who sold his product ...
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 12 August 2013 16: 00
      24
      Quote: ivshubarin
      Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.

      And for these two dozen aircraft - five flight accidents (this is what became known). Not too much? Does it pull on regularity?
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 04
        -6
        Everything new has childhood diseases. An example of a Boeing's dream liner. With the last Jets, everything is fine
    3. sapsan14
      sapsan14 12 August 2013 16: 07
      19
      Good afternoon!
      One must fly not to harm everyone, but together with everyone. "Sawing" has never done anything good. Aircraft have different niches and there could be many times more of them. And now we have:
      Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 12
        -2
        This year already 10 raised. Altogether 34 aircraft
        1. Goldmitro
          Goldmitro 12 August 2013 19: 23
          12
          And this is all that Poghosyan was able to do in so much time, having "mastered" HUGE money directed to the reanimation of the entire domestic civil aviation industry, and not only to the production of one Superjet - a "domestic" aircraft half of imported components, for which there is not even a queue of buyers among domestic companies! After all, the task was and is being set to revive the entire chain of production of the aviation industry, incl. and components, which could become a locomotive for the development of the entire Russian economy! In general, as they say, the mountain gave birth to a mouse and rushes with it like a sack! And it seems that Poghosyan with his Superjet today looks like POLENO, lying across the runway of the domestic aviation industry, and until it is removed, we will rivet a few Superjets and listen to his huge plans every time!
      2. sneeze
        sneeze 12 August 2013 23: 43
        +2
        Quote: sapsan14
        could be many times more. And now we have:
        Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.


        and a year ago this was not there, but in a year it may well be twice as much! you need to judge the effectiveness of the dynamics, otherwise you can cry and close the project after the release of the first production aircraft: it’s the only one)
    4. Simon
      Simon 12 August 2013 16: 24
      18
      God forbid, let it fly, but other design bureaus and factories should be developed the same way, and not work for one Pogosyan. Then there will be good competition and good civilian aircraft. And the state commission for field trials should accept.
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 29
        14
        IL was given a large order, MIG was given, TU PAK-DA is developing, Yak MS-21 is sawing, Beriev also has an order. Only AN was infringed, but it is not ours. And then AN-148 and 140 we rivet
        1. svp67
          svp67 13 August 2013 00: 40
          +2
          Quote: ivshubarin
          IL was given a large order, MIG was given, TU PAK-DA is developing, Yak MS-21 is sawing, Beriev also has an order. Only AN was infringed, but it is not ours. And then AN-148 and 140 we rivet

          The sky of Russia is huge - there is enough space for everyone ...
      2. katran666
        katran666 12 August 2013 17: 09
        14
        Do you understand that the phrase "other design bureaus and factories need to develop the same" means billions and billions of budget money? for which the actual fight is the authors of this opus.
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 12 August 2013 20: 54
          +4
          Quote: katran666
          Do you understand that the phrase "other design bureaus and factories need to develop the same" means billions and billions of budget money?

          we all understand perfectly. Why should a superjet fly, half imported, and not all of ours? What, are French engines better than Kuznetsov’s?
          Quote: ivshubarin
          our more than 40%

          What? Titanium parts? The engine is a much more technological and expensive product
          Those who wish can read M. Solonin - "At peacefully sleeping airfields" - how planes were designed during the war. They also gnawed each other and put sticks to competitors
        2. bomg.77
          bomg.77 13 August 2013 03: 09
          +1
          Quote: katran666
          Do you understand that the phrase "other design bureaus and factories need to develop the same" means billions and billions of budget money? for which the actual fight is the authors of this opus.
          On the author see saved, bought a cheap
      3. Very old
        Very old 12 August 2013 18: 57
        +4
        Important: the state commission of independent experts, primarily exploiters.
      4. sneeze
        sneeze 12 August 2013 23: 25
        +3
        Quote: Simon
        but other design bureaus and factories need to be developed the same


        of the "deprived" only Tu, hence all the noise.

        Quote: Simon
        Then there will be good competition


        do you think embraer and bombardier are bad competition?

        Quote: Simon
        And the state commission for field trials should accept.


        Do you propose to develop several aircraft of the same type in parallel to the stage of samples in metal, and then lay the price of developing all of them in the cost of one winner? don't you think that it will turn out a little expensive?
    5. Airman
      Airman 12 August 2013 16: 44
      17
      Quote: ivshubarin
      A Super Jet flies to evil everyone. Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.

      Ivan, you are from Komsomolsk-on-Amur, so you defend Pogosyan and his superjet so zealously, each sandpiper praises its swamp, but you need to learn to face the truth: the superjet is a hodgepodge, and if you refuse to supply any of the western suppliers to its assembly the end will come.
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 52
        +3
        Call at least one civilian plane not a hodgepodge; in Boeing and Watermelon ours are more than 40%
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 12 August 2013 17: 37
          +6
          Quote: ivshubarin
          Call at least one civilian plane not a hodgepodge; in Boeing and Watermelon ours are more than 40%

          In Ane, too, from 30 to 60%, and in the Superjet about 20%. So which is more Russian?
          1. katran666
            katran666 12 August 2013 18: 32
            +4
            unambiguously SSJ, all rights belong to the UAC - a state corporation, therefore, its development entirely depends on the policy of the Russian Federation (with all its pluses and minuses) which I can’t say about ukrosamoletah, it is clear why you are defending ana - but as in that joke, ”the doctor said to the morgue - it means to the morgue !!! "
            1. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 12 August 2013 23: 36
              +3
              Quote: katran666
              it is clear why you are defending ana - however, as in that joke "the doctor said to the morgue - it means to the morgue !!!"

              I defend common sense, ANY is beneficial to everyone. And in any case, whatever the doctor says, there is a great demand and future. Another question, it seems that your doctor is trying to get someone out of the morgue.
              1. svp67
                svp67 13 August 2013 00: 42
                +1
                Quote: gladiatorakz
                Any are beneficial to everyone.
                Who is this to all? A very profitable and good An70 still cannot be "put on the wing", so not everything is so simple ...
                1. Su-9
                  Su-9 13 August 2013 01: 08
                  +3
                  The situation with the An-70 is mixed, I agree. The aircraft is military, and its placement on the wing is highly dependent on state orders.
                  And the bot about An-14/58 - I don’t understand why such emphasis is on the superjet. An148 is made from our components. It is thought out to fly from our aerodromes and aerodromes of countries with poor infrastructure.
                  And most importantly - a good plane.
                  Instead, they rely on the Superjet, which has a lot of competitors in its class (embers, bombers), requires infrastructure, and is assembled from a foreign IP. And we, as the Papuans, only make the planer and rejoice.
                  Why, it’s not clear. To pocharit Ukraine? So, on the contrary, An could use it as an example of fruitful cooperation, show the advantages of the TS and tie them to itself.
                  We will not tie Italian and French to our superjet.
                2. gladiatorakz
                  gladiatorakz 13 August 2013 08: 43
                  +2
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: gladiatorakz
                  Any are beneficial to everyone.
                  Who is this to all? A very profitable and good An70 still cannot be "put on the wing", so not everything is so simple ...

                  Favorable for Ukraine and Russia both for countries and people involved in the areas of production, service, and product logistics. Favorable for the idea of ​​rapprochement. Yes, in many ways. And the AN70 will fly with or without Russia. Better of course together, but ....
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 13 August 2013 11: 14
                    +2
                    Quote: gladiatorakz
                    And AN70 will fly with or without Russia.
                    I'm afraid that by the time it "flies", it will "fly" all the tenders and the bulk of orders ...
                    1. gladiatorakz
                      gladiatorakz 13 August 2013 14: 05
                      0
                      Quote: svp67
                      I'm afraid that by the time it "flies", it will "fly" all the tenders and the bulk of orders ...

                      So do I. This is often in our history. And political reasons are unlikely to explain. Although ... Both countries will lose from this. And more. Ukraine is mainly in the economy. For Russia, the economic impact will be weaker (due to the size of the economy and export of raw materials), but it will also. In addition, the BTA will suffer, and therefore Russia's defense capability.
              2. ivshubarin
                ivshubarin 13 August 2013 12: 53
                +1
                Demand for ANy-148 is supported only by state orders, airlines do not take them. And SSD has already found about 150 orders worldwide.
                1. VAF
                  VAF 13 August 2013 13: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: ivshubarin
                  Demand for ANy-148 is supported only by state orders, airlines do not take them. And SSD has already found about 150 orders worldwide.


                  I didn’t want to interfere, honestly I didn’t want to, I thought for a week from 12 to 19 without any criticism. but it’s impossible to read further!

                  Dear DO NOT PARIS THE BRAIN PEOPLE !!!!

                  What the fuck Super-duper ??? 85% of the imported? What the heck are portfolios of orders ??? The only customer and OWNER is our VTB BANK, which is now owned by leasing 80 aircraft ... everything .. then what needs to be explained ????

                  What Super-Duper He is rival to Embraer and the scorer ??? Are you kidding or what? you are still Moskvich 408 and BMW% "* compare!

                  How is it the last failures (and in aviation they say extreme), and the failure to control the stabilizer on landing on the "ohm" ??? Childhood illness, say ... well, well ....!

                  And the extreme If it were not the Great PU, then your Po and sons would sit ... in ... that's where he would sit with his Super-Duper and in every case. on Super-duper-Poghosyan "DEFAULT" is the state decree on the allocation of the next saving tranche loan!
                  So you have MINUSES everywhere, in your "ruryapogosyankommentah"!
                  Sorry for the harshness ... but "boiled" !!! soldier
                  1. ivshubarin
                    ivshubarin 13 August 2013 13: 49
                    -2
                    Lock yourself in the bathroom and cry. Everything is lost. And the production of SSD gives work to many plants.
                    1. VAF
                      VAF 13 August 2013 17: 33
                      +2
                      Quote: ivshubarin
                      Lock yourself in the bathroom and cry. Everything is lost. And the production of SSD gives work to many plants.


                      Oooooh ... rude, then get angry, and get angry from ... that you are afraid lol and it pleases!!!!

                      You .. such .. just the way it should be, but in honor of the holiday I am kind .. therefore only facts and .. nothing more. well, you already ... "urya foam" ... so let's start ..... and good luck to you wassat !

                      July 31, AEX.RU - Vladimir Putin approved a plan to rescue Sukhoi Superjet manufacturer CJSC Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (SCA) from default, Kommersant writes.

                      Part of the debt of the SCA to Vnesheconombank in the amount of $ 600 million will be repaid by an additional issue of the SCAC's main shareholder, JSC Sukhoi. The company will also receive a subsidy from
                      sales of a 5% stake in VEB in the EADS concern (manufacturer Airbus).
                      1. valerii41
                        valerii41 13 August 2013 17: 48
                        +1
                        Instead of airplanes, the movement of the dough, something interesting? Money should not be candy wrappers, but rolls of 1 kg, 3 kg, 5 kg, after 5 to one hundred kg. I came to the store and threw a 5 kg roll in exchange for 0,5 kg of bread
                      2. VAF
                        VAF 13 August 2013 18: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: valerii41
                        Instead of airplanes, the movement of the dough, something interesting?


                        Dear Valery, so "this is what they have and all the charm" bully

                        Immediately, it seems like "taking care of several hundred workers" at the plant, I don't know ... where he took some thousands ... maybe not aware that, for example, O. Deripaska, will reassign his staff to other factories that are not connected with the production of "luminium" this is me, for example.

                        In general, the "oil painting" from the comment that I wrote is that the owners of the entire UAC, and not the GSS will be VEB wassat
                        I hope it is clear further .. no need to explain lol

                        Well, this ... "pearl" from the Great Misha .. explains everything, it couldn't be easier wassat (I give right away with a link ... so that later ... they did not have conversations wassat )

                        “Aviation is a synonym for life,” - Mikhail Poghosyan, President of the United Aircraft Corporation

                        According to Poghosyan, it’s not the manufacturers that compete in the aviation industry, but the states: the winner is the one with stronger state support


                        http://www.vedomosti.ru/library/news...ident?full#cut
                      3. valerii41
                        valerii41 14 August 2013 18: 23
                        -1
                        That is, to have a shaggy hand, and the loot and power themselves will come
                  2. ivshubarin
                    ivshubarin 14 August 2013 06: 50
                    -2
                    I have been reading your comments for a long time. According to your words, nothing has been flying with us for a long time, everything fell apart, it's time to pack our bags and bring them down. I do not like whiners and all-prosralnik. And about SSD in 5 years we’ll talk, let's see who was right. Maybe you are a specialist in aviation, but stuck in the 80s, maybe it could be. Forget and see what is, but it is that the SSD flies and KNAAZ feeds the entire Khabarovsk Territory.
              3. sneeze
                sneeze 13 August 2013 22: 03
                -2
                Quote: vaf
                85% of the imported?


                Still, I wonder where and who pulled this figure out into wide open spaces?

                Quote: vaf
                What is he Super-duper rival Embraeru and scorer


                he hasn’t given them yet (simply because of the incomparable pace of production), and they are for him, yes, I’ve talked about this.

                Quote: vaf
                How is it the last failures (and in aviation they say extreme), and the failure to control the stabilizer on landing on the "ohm" ??? Childhood illness, say ... well, well ....!


                the road will be overpowered) we wait and look
    6. Very old
      Very old 12 August 2013 19: 01
      +2
      IVAN, so the West is trading with the West
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 13 August 2013 12: 58
        +1
        And the fact that a thousand Russian workers collect this plane
        1. VAF
          VAF 13 August 2013 13: 27
          +1
          Quote: ivshubarin
          And the fact that a thousand Russian workers collect this plane


          And easily several COT thousands could work 9 plants adjacent) and Royalty it is not necessary to pay .... I ask again .. do not dissemble !!!
          1. valerii41
            valerii41 13 August 2013 17: 52
            +1
            Why should Russians engage in stupidity? Make 100kg screwdrivers to invite migrants and let them twist
            1. VAF
              VAF 13 August 2013 18: 33
              +1
              Quote: valerii41
              Why should Russians engage in stupidity?


              Not Valery, this is not stupidity, but a lot of hard work !!!

              When everything is ours and then .... there are "troubles" in mass, in centering, in volume, etc. but here ... "our duralumin, and their brains" are generally labor, and if "migrants" are hired, they will make .. a locomotive, at least then it won't fly at all! wassat
              1. valerii41
                valerii41 14 August 2013 18: 27
                -2
                Super crutches in the country of Nobel laureates of Armenia will order and the loot will fly
  2. sneeze
    sneeze 12 August 2013 23: 34
    +1
    Quote: Povshnik
    and if you refuse to supply any of the western suppliers, its assembly will come to an end


    as soon as some Western supplier decides that he has too much profit and an excessively good reputation, this will happen) although there are hardly any fundamentally irreplaceable ones. change of suppliers is happening now - just optimization of production
  • valokordin
    valokordin 12 August 2013 19: 26
    +3
    Quote: ivshubarin
    A Super Jet flies to evil everyone. Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.

    This made toy constructor flies like a potpourri collected from everyone on a thread. This Pogost-100 sucked out all the money, and there was nothing to do with market competition. I liked everything, paved the way and like an unsinkable Chubais. Although he does fighter jets, but in the Civil Air Fleet he carries out an order from abroad, does not allow other companies to build airplanes, the actual one is engaged in wrecking.
    1. valerii41
      valerii41 12 August 2013 19: 29
      +3
      According to Putin, entrepreneurship in our steal
    2. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 12 August 2013 22: 40
      0
      Quote: valokordin
      prevents other companies from building aircraft; the actual one is engaged in wrecking.

      And this is visible to everyone, but the paradox, no one even lifts a finger to at least ask: - "when the money invested in" Super-duper "will return, - or the" great manager "did not have a business plan to extract profit from the sale "waffles" ?, and the current from the cut and then into your own pocket. wink
    3. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 13 August 2013 13: 01
      +2
      Compare the characteristics of the SSD and TU-334. And then talk about competition. TU-334 dead project.
  • TAGIR
    TAGIR 12 August 2013 21: 18
    +1
    And promised orders for 800 airliners
  • vjhbc
    vjhbc 12 August 2013 21: 19
    -4
    I looked and decided that you were given a minus by all those who themselves can’t do anything and don’t even want to do it, and even the Tupolevs should generally be silent in a rag for everything that their founder did, and the Migovites didn’t find a single person who would put on their shoulders the burden of making money for the development of their enterprise, they behaved like Poniatowski made children of Captain Schmidt and ran with outstretched hands give money and now weave all nonsense on those who worked and earned money and allowed them to develop
    Quote: ivshubarin
    A Super Jet flies to evil everyone. Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 12 August 2013 22: 04
      +3
      Yes, do not smack nonsense, everyone knows the amount of money and the result, and as for the burden, this is temporary. The test pilot of the Yakovlevsky Design Bureau, after the destruction of the Saratov aircraft factory, also praised the Pogost-100 at the beginning, as the highest achievement, proved in vain, which he frankly admitted.
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 12 August 2013 23: 07
      0
      Quote: vjhbc
      shouldered the burden of making money for the development of his enterprise

      Quote: vjhbc
      ran with outstretched hand give me money

      So Poghosyan took all the money. Moreover, he didn’t earn, and the state gave
      1. vjhbc
        vjhbc 12 August 2013 23: 51
        0
        and why didn’t the moment and the Tupolevites need to work with the state and not sit as a monument and consider that we should all
        Quote: Pilat2009
        Quote: vjhbc
        shouldered the burden of making money for the development of his enterprise

        Quote: vjhbc
        ran with outstretched hand give me money

        So Poghosyan took all the money. Moreover, he didn’t earn, and the state gave
  • roma2
    roma2 12 August 2013 23: 09
    -2
    And again an accident but already in Iceland
    1. sneeze
      sneeze 12 August 2013 23: 51
      +5
      why don't you add the phrase:

      "At the final stage of certification tests for the expansion of operating conditions - automatic landing (certification program for the ICAO category CAT III A) in a crosswind when landing with an imitation of one engine failure, an aircraft touched the runway with the landing gear retracted." ?

      would look more objective
      1. VAF
        VAF 13 August 2013 18: 36
        +2
        Quote: sneeze
        would look more objective


        I dare to ask how objective and in what ????

        What does the crosswind (standard conditions) have, the approach approach on one throttle engine (one on the MG, the second 60-75% in URT), with flaps at 23g, and not at 40g ... to the bad thing that happened ???

        After all, the automatic pick-up should have worked and "take the car to the second circle", but then what ... splash ........ extra 3,5 tons and that's all .. the motors do not pull ???

        And if with passengers, then what ?????
        1. sneeze
          sneeze 13 August 2013 22: 13
          -1
          Quote: vaf
          And if with passengers, then what ?????


          Have you often seen planes jammed by passengers in certification tests? )

          sat down, no one was injured during the landing, the plane will be restored, conclusions will be drawn. tests are needed

          Quote: vaf
          extra 3,5 tons


          yes, they are the most)
    2. valerii41
      valerii41 13 August 2013 17: 57
      0
      Import crutches will be written out so for a billion and fly
  • 225chay
    225chay 13 August 2013 07: 42
    0
    Quote: ivshubarin
    A Super Jet flies to evil everyone. Already two in Mexico, in Laos, in Indonesia, in Russia more than a dozen.

    When such "comrades" as Poghosyan are in command of design factories, there will be nothing worthwhile in aviation. Kumovism, family ties, etc. Decent people were pushed aside by market-makers and traders
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 13 August 2013 13: 08
      0
      And nothing that Poghosyan participated in the creation of the SU-27. The best fighter
  • Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 12 August 2013 15: 54
    +7
    I do not like a superjet, it’s painfully advertised!
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 12 August 2013 15: 57
      -1
      the advertisement is engine of the trade
      1. Airman
        Airman 12 August 2013 16: 33
        +4
        Quote: ivshubarin
        the advertisement is engine of the trade

        A crashed in a show flight - the engine of anti-advertising? I did not fly on a superjet and I will not fly, even if I really need it.
        1. ivshubarin
          ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 55
          -3
          No one asks to fly, ride a deer. But this is our only competitive aircraft. And Indonesia admitted that it was a pilot’s mistake and didn’t abandon the plane
          1. Komsomolets
            Komsomolets 12 August 2013 19: 18
            +8
            First, Indonesia is a very "reputable" aviation expert. And secondly, why don't you write that the Armenians have refused from the vaunted "Superjet" (well, the name, God forgive me)?
            Yes, and do not frankly lie that he is our only competitive aircraft. He is not our plane and not at all competitive.
            1. valerii41
              valerii41 12 August 2013 19: 22
              -1
              Armenians do not care about this "super" the main thing is quietly loot is floating out of our pockets
            2. sneeze
              sneeze 12 August 2013 23: 06
              +3
              why don’t you write that the Armenians simply went bankrupt?
            3. ivshubarin
              ivshubarin 13 August 2013 13: 11
              0
              Judging by the market, he is not yours, but Russian. Bankrupt Armenians
          2. valokordin
            valokordin 12 August 2013 19: 28
            +5
            Quote: ivshubarin
            No one asks to fly, ride a deer. But this is our only competitive aircraft. And Indonesia admitted that it was a pilot’s mistake and didn’t abandon the plane

            He is not a competitor, he is a bablosos and a gag in the throat of the aviation industry.
      2. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 12 August 2013 22: 46
        0
        Quote: ivshubarin
        the advertisement is engine of the trade

        Cho-that, fucking advertise, nevermind do not buy your tarantayka with weak chassis, ace, and so on. etc.
        1. ivshubarin
          ivshubarin 13 August 2013 12: 45
          +1
          Almost 200 applications were submitted for purchase. And the tarantike is let out all over Russia - Ulyanovsk, Kazan, Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, Rybinsk, Voronezh. All these plants were modernized under the SSD. If you do not know the situation, do not buzz
          1. VAF
            VAF 13 August 2013 18: 43
            -2
            Quote: ivshubarin
            Almost 200 applications were submitted for purchase.


            Not from delight ....... otherwise the application paper will not be enough wassat .

            That is why Gazprom made an "application" for 2 Super-dupers in the VIP-set, and we have gas for the people of broads 70 kopecks up, per cubic meter ... it's a fucking claim ... and Nazprom seems to be like a PEOPLE DESTINY ??????

            So why the heck is such an asset and such a super-duper if I pay my grandmother for it ????
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 13 August 2013 18: 52
              +1
              Hi Seryozha plus a business terminal Gazprom in each port, even in Astafyevo rebuilt.
              1. Bort radist
                Bort radist 13 August 2013 19: 15
                +1
                Quote: Alex 241
                even in Astafyevo

                To set the mood! Parable about the formation of the names of settlements. Tsar Peter spent the night in an unnamed village. At night it was discovered that the sentry guarding the rest of the Tsar fell asleep at the post. In the morning, the non-commissioned officer reported on the incident and asked: - "Tell me to execute?" The morning was beautiful, the sky was blue, the birds and Peter's mood matched and the king waved his hand and said: Leave him alone! Since then, the village has been called that way. We had a similar case with Peter. All one to one. But the weather is disgusting !!! Since then, the village has been called Ipatievo. Recorded at the symposium of linguists. wassat
              2. VAF
                VAF 13 August 2013 19: 25
                +2
                Quote: Alex 241
                even rebuilt in Astafyevo.


                Hello, Sasha, with the official who forgave you and with Our real Upcoming!
                So I promised .. in the holiday week ... without criticism, but here .. I could not restrain myself.

                so ... Astafyevo is everything .. completely comics? And "where is the sea now" ... or all to Chkalovsky. hto has no money ???

                Enlighten drinks

                Well, today I swear, how the hell .. I went to the city .. gasoline for a rib. DT for two .... m ... there are such prices in the bazaar in general .. tomatoes-cucumbers were already 15-25, and now the start from 50-60 and above .. actually .... ofigeli, well, and paid for the communal services ... all sore ... that's when to get drunk ????
                Or not enough for the "co-sponsorship" of the next Premier League ????

                Well, the low-pace .. this is generally ... a bestseller, but by the way, Super-duper is not considered there .. you understand why, because. the efficiency is full 0 and not just 0, but 0 square, which cannot even be rolled !!!!
                Today I talked on the phone with one of the leaders of the regional AK, so, a good company, strong, and his neighbors "try" this Super ... out of 5 words, 10 words of mathematics and these are not ordinary citizens, but OPERATORS.
                And here today he nearly got hooked with another clown ... he has a portfolio of orders for 200 pieces ... he will have to drop in first thing at the State Research Institute of Civil Aviation .. to tell the men a new anegdot, otherwise they don’t know ... what would neigh for a holiday !!! drinks
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 13 August 2013 19: 33
                  +1
                  Serezha, Astafyevo are jointly based, we need to call a classmate, he flies there as a navigator. His wife paid for communal services yesterday, she was in a stupor for half a day.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Ppsh
      Ppsh 12 August 2013 21: 43
      +1
      Awesome argument !!!!
  • alone
    alone 12 August 2013 15: 54
    24
    As for combat aviation, I can’t say anything against the SU brand, but the Tupolev civil aviation has always been out of competition. it's good if "Tupoevtsy" will delight us with new civilian airliners
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 12 August 2013 16: 04
      14
      To be honest, I have been skeptical of Pogasyan for a long time.
      1. Airman
        Airman 12 August 2013 18: 26
        0
        Quote: Russ69
        To be honest, I have been skeptical of Pogasyan for a long time.

        I regard Poghosyan as a mishandled (Cossack) ... guilty, Armenian. Thanks to his merits, civil aviation in the corral, for a long time, well that was unsuccessful, slowed down the MiG-35, with its vaunted superjet promised to provide a third of the world, and as a result a big zilch. In short - a protege of the Armenian diaspora.
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 12 August 2013 22: 53
          +9
          Quote: Povshnik
          . In short - a protege of the Armenian diaspora.

          Vyacheslav, let's not fall into the discussion in this nationalistic garbage. Our Russian Ser-Duke finally stole the sun and ruined the sun so that we will draw conclusions about ourselves loved ones or what? No.
        2. Russ69
          Russ69 12 August 2013 23: 51
          +5
          Quote: Povshnik
          I regard Poghosyan as a mishandled (Cossack) ... guilty, Armenian. Thanks to his merits, civil aviation in the corral, for a long time, well that was unsuccessful, slowed down the MiG-35, with its vaunted superjet promised to provide a third of the world, and as a result a big zilch. In short - a protege of the Armenian diaspora.

          I don't put nationality first. I am critical of him, for the reason that he is trying to build all the aircraft industry in the Russian Federation on the basis of "Sukhoi". Yes, he had a failure with the Superjet, but the T-50 was also created with him. And I certainly do not blame him for all the troubles of our aircraft industry.
          Today infa went out that a contract is being prepared for IL-112V with the Moscow Region, both for NIKOR and for further purchase in the amount of 62 pieces.
      2. tttttt
        tttttt 13 August 2013 00: 08
        +1
        Yeah, this is from the same company of great non-Russian clever leaders, like Ashurbeyli. There will be no sense in these guys, the mentality is not the same. Only grasping reflexes.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster 13 August 2013 11: 46
            +5
            Quote: tttttt
            And on what basis did this Armenian woman become who he is now?
            Well, maybe he worked on the profile, and did not solo on the forum, what do you think?
            Quote: tttttt
            Is he a brilliant designer? Well, at least an engineer?

            At least he is an aviation designer by education and occupation, og.
            Quote: tttttt
            There is some kind of diploma in the zashashnik, but I’m sure he himself did not build and did not create anything.
            Truly believe brother
            Quote: tttttt
            Only a Russian person with his creative nature can lead and create grandiose projects in the flesh and completely his own.
            In truth, to cut out from the history of the boastful Judef Mikoyan with Gurevich, Yangel’s hat and other things I do not fight with a hot iron. So we will win
            P.S. You need to be treated by electric current.
            1. valerii41
              valerii41 13 August 2013 12: 29
              -1
              The evil hamster will bring an idiot into the Kremlin by some winds and immediately become an older "elder brother." Sitting in Georgia is the owner of 10 lambs in the Kremlin, Prince Bagrationi, this aroused the discontent of the nobles, who had thousands of such princes. So it is with the Armenians, and their ability to bribe, that there are scoundrels among the Russians, is not a secret. This is what we are talking about ourselves, we must respect ourselves and not treat with electric current. Ivanov could not think of a Russian name for the plane, salivating, praising the "super" result; we fly on decommissioned Boeings, and prices caress the ears of Russia, the country of millionaires. Kalashnikov, Shoigu, these are ours, and let the Poghosyans and other shvili steal from their homeland
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 12 August 2013 17: 01
      14
      And yet Ilyushin was out of competition in civilian life. Although, "Carcasses" were not much behind.
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 17: 05
        +3
        Rogozin seems to have promised the development of a long-haul, and only IL did them
        1. Russ69
          Russ69 12 August 2013 23: 59
          +1
          Quote: ivshubarin
          Rogozin seems to have promised the development of a long-haul, and only IL did them

          Based on the unfinished IL-96-400, the Ministry of Defense is considering the issue of making tankers out of them.
          http://www.newsfiber.com/p/s/h?v=EgO4DQFyF54s%3D+WtBo0UuFyv4%3D
    3. vjhbc
      vjhbc 12 August 2013 23: 55
      0
      yeah, especially when Andrei Nikolaevich Tupolev was alive, who began to consider himself an absolute guru in the aviation of the USSR and threw pilots through the lips saying that you don’t know how to fly mu-daki
      Quote: lonely
      As for combat aviation, I can’t say anything against the SU brand, but the Tupolev civil aviation has always been out of competition. it's good if "Tupoevtsy" will delight us with new civilian airliners
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 13 August 2013 01: 25
        +1
        Quote: vjhbc
        "... Tupolev Andrey Nikolaevich who began to consider himself an absolute
        guru in the aviation of the USSR and threw pilots through the lip saying ... you do not know how to fly. "


        A. N. Tupolev respected pilots, especially testers.
        http://topwar.ru/22395-velikiy-aviakonstruktor-rossii.html
    4. yanus
      yanus 13 August 2013 18: 49
      0
      Quote: lonely
      As for combat aviation, I can’t say anything against the SU brand, but the Tupolev civil aviation has always been out of competition.

      Yes, something, but "TU is beyond competition" you are right. By the way, remind, who tried to compete with TU in civil aviation in similar classes? )))
  • Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 12 August 2013 16: 01
    +9
    It's good that the superjet flies and sells, but definitely, there should be an alternative!
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 12 August 2013 16: 34
      +3
      Quote: Vlad_Mir
      but definitely, there should be an alternative!

      The Ural Mining and Metallurgical Company / UMMC / plans to increase its stake in the stake in the Czech Aircraft Industries plant from 51 to 100%, thus becoming the sole owner of the production of the Let L-410 Turbolet aircraft of local airlines.
      L-410UVP - 19-seat short-haul aircraft with a shortened takeoff and landing distance. In the post-war period, the Turbolet became the first foreign aircraft to reach Soviet distances. "
      such an alternative to our companies hi
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 59
        +1
        L-410 19mest, SSD 100mest a good alternative
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv 12 August 2013 17: 22
          +1
          I’m not talking about the number of seats and the Superjet, but the fact that the nearest highways are even occupied by Czech planes, not Yaki and Tushka, as it were, and even under the wing of Russian business.
          1. Very old
            Very old 12 August 2013 19: 08
            +1
            That's right, Vladimir, each class of cars has its own niche, its own STRIP
          2. sneeze
            sneeze 13 August 2013 00: 14
            +1
            Quote: mhpv
            the nearest highways are even occupied by Czech planes


            for reference, l-410 was purchased in bulk even with the union. so there’s no change for the worse. although for the better too
          3. ivshubarin
            ivshubarin 13 August 2013 13: 18
            0
            Just L-410 in the USSR owned most of the transportation to nearby highways. Gift to Czechs.
        2. Very old
          Very old 12 August 2013 19: 06
          +2
          However, deer harness. These machines are of different classes and the comparison is incorrect.
  • ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 09
    -8
    Tu-334 is being lobbyed by Boguslaev, but it is morally obsolete 10 years ago. After 90 KB, Sukhoi is only able to construct aircraft. That's when the Tupolevs raise PAK-DA to the wing then we can talk about the revival of the famous brand.
    1. polkownik1
      polkownik1 12 August 2013 16: 41
      +7
      Is it possible to clarify what is "obsolescence" for an aircraft ready for production and operation? Date of blueprints release? First flight date? And second, is the Superjet's multi-seat superiority more important than its failing reliability on the brink of a foul?
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 12 August 2013 17: 02
        +4
        He is for three pilots in the world, these are no longer there. Plus heavy and gluttonous
      2. tanit
        tanit 12 August 2013 17: 15
        +6
        A specification of what is displayed in the drawings. This is about moral "obsolescence". Element base, even cable brand. Much is no longer released anywhere in the world, but a lot is released, but not like 10 years ago.
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv 12 August 2013 17: 41
      +4
      Just the same MS and sabotaged 334 because they wanted to promote the 148th.
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 12 August 2013 18: 44
        +2
        You can’t sabotage a corpse. Although supposedly the Russian 148 was just a direct competitor.
        1. experienced
          experienced 12 August 2013 19: 43
          +3
          Quote: Avenger711
          You can’t sabotage a corpse. Although supposedly the Russian 148 was just a direct competitor.

          I didn’t want to harness this vile topic, but Mstyuganyutel forced wassat Nice to see the skulls fit well.
          And on the topic, the next person, who is driving the streams and unlike Serdyukov, is unlikely to burn up on a woman, which means that budget money will go into the necessary pockets further hi
    3. serioga
      serioga 13 August 2013 00: 33
      +1
      Quote: ivshubarin
      Tu-334 is being lobbyed by Boguslaev, but it is morally obsolete 10 years ago. After 90 KB, Sukhoi is only able to construct aircraft. That's when the Tupolevs raise PAK-DA to the wing then we can talk about the revival of the famous brand.

      Quote: ivshubarin
      He is for three pilots in the world, these are no longer there. Plus heavy and gluttonous

      Superjet is a hodgepodge is tantamount to (pride) of the Ukrainian automobile industry ZAZ VIDA and ZAZ SENS, and in order to quickly raise PAK-DA to take away all budgetary funds invested in the unusual development of Sukhoi (syperget) and send them to other KB with proven projects, then we’ll see PAK-YES. (and his name is somehow not Russian)
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 13 August 2013 12: 07
        +1
        The names of the KB, the building in the center of Moscow and the Archive - do not know how to make aircraft. Aircraft are made by the design team — and such a thing is not real estate and cannot wait for 10 years for an order if there is no normal work and adequate wages, people scatter, and the team degrades. Therefore weep that the Dry pier climbed into their own sphere - nothing. They climbed because they could and wanted, and all the talk that we’ll give money to this or that right now and how they will give birth to a miracle is nothing more than delusions.
      2. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 13 August 2013 12: 56
        +1
        That SU that TU are included in the UAC, profits from the sale of SU feeds and TU.
    4. serioga
      serioga 13 August 2013 00: 49
      +1
      Superjet is a hodgepodge is tantamount to (pride) of the Ukrainian automobile industry ZAZ VIDA and ZAZ SENS, and in order to quickly raise PAK-DA to take away all budgetary funds invested in the unusual development of Sukhoi (syperget) and send them to other KB with proven projects, then we’ll see PAK-YES. (Yes, and his name is some kind of non-Russian (superjet)) winked Reminds a saying (specialists of a wide profile, but with a narrow grip) Everyone should do what he does best

  • AK-47
    AK-47 12 August 2013 16: 16
    +3
    Poghosyan’s people are placed in key places everywhere.

    I wonder who Poghosyan appointed to this position and for how much?
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 22
      0
      Poghosyan is not a manager, he is a techie. Dryer designed combat
      1. Apollo
        Apollo 12 August 2013 17: 03
        16
        Quote: ivshubarin
        Poghosyan is not a manager, he is a techie. Dryer designed combat


        Well, firstly, not only Poghosyan but a whole team, designed
        secondly, Poghosyan stated literally the following:

        Poghosyan: UAC to build 2012 aircraft for 2014-485 years
        United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) has signed construction contracts from 2012 to 2014
        the year of 485 aircraft of various types, the head of the corporation Mikhail Poghosyan said at a press conference on Monday. "In 2014, we must deliver 200 aircraft to customers," he said, Interfax reports. Another 285 aircraft will be built by Russia before the 2014 year. The UAC plans to triple the production of civilian aircraft, Poghosyan said. “In 2014, there should be an almost threefold increase in the volume of production of civil aviation,” he said. According to the slides presented by Poghosyan, the volume of production should grow from the current 10% to 27%. According to the UAC strategic plans, by 2025, the volume of production of civil aircraft should be 40% of the total production of the corporation, and the share of production of transport aircraft should grow to 25%. The KLA has contracts for the supply of 270 military and about 300 civilian aircraft, Poghosyan said. “Today we have firm contracts for more than 270 military aircraft,” he said. This allows you to load the aircraft industry with orders up to the 2015 year, Poghosyan explained. “Today, we also have about 300 aircraft in our civil aviation portfolio,” he added.
        http://so-l.ru/news/show/4272997

        hence the question where are these xnumx planes ?! winked

        thirdly, concerns Artyom, son of M. Poghosyan, I don’t understand, he had to be employed in the KLA.
        Could he really find his application in other organizations.Apparently dad is preparing him for himself in the receivers.
        fourthly, it seems that a dynasty is being created in the KLA. By the way, M. Poghosyan has another son who is still studying, you can appoint him, not as a senior but as the chief vice president for the future.
        fifthly, when Mr. Ashurbeyli was illegally removed from office in the Almaz-Antey concern while simultaneously instituting criminal proceedings against him (which were subsequently dismissed due to lack of corpus delicti) here on the forum, this did not mourn, the accusations rained down on the part of visitors from sunny Armenia. Well, where are you accusers that I do not see you.
        fifthly, I believe that the Accounts Chamber together with the Prosecutor General’s Office should finally conduct a comprehensive audit of both the financial and organizational activities of the UAC. It’s long overdue. And it turns out that they turned the company into their patrimony.
        1. ivshubarin
          ivshubarin 12 August 2013 17: 11
          0
          Almighty China also promised its Komak, but cannot bring it to mind, just as Amer did its F-35. And why are you so do not like Russia that the only brainchild for 30 years spread rot. The first pancake is not always good, but try to bring up.
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 12 August 2013 17: 30
            +6
            Quote: ivshubarin
            And why are you so do not like Russia

            Why did you decide so ?! Arguments to the studio
            Quote: ivshubarin
            that the only brainchild for 30 is spread rot.

            But is it the only one ?!
            Quote: ivshubarin
            The first pancake is not always good,

            during the Soviet era for each failure would be strictly asked
            Quote: ivshubarin
            but try to bring.

            I see how they bring it, do not bring it, and try to grab and pocket what is created by the overwork of the people of Russia.
        2. Scoun
          Scoun 12 August 2013 17: 33
          +7
          Quote: Apollon
          fifthly, I believe that The Accounts Chamber, together with the General Prosecutor's Office, should finally conduct a comprehensive audit of both the financial and organizational activities of the UAC. It is long overdue. And it turns out they turned the company into their patrimony.

          + + + + +
          With this "nepotism", each official with little power surrounds himself ... sits Marishko - his wife has a brick factory ... well, let's spread rot to build decorate it with a "brick" and call it just a successful business .... bastards.
        3. Avenger711
          Avenger711 12 August 2013 18: 43
          +2
          Hence the question. Today is 31.12.2014?
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 12 August 2013 18: 58
            +4
            Quote: Avenger711
            Hence the question. Today is 31.12.2014?


            Judging by the style, the addressless address is addressed to me. Are you kidding me ?! Well, yes, over the remaining year and a half these same 485 aircraft will appear. winked
          2. experienced
            experienced 12 August 2013 19: 44
            +2
            Quote: Avenger711
            Hence the question. Today is 31.12.2014?

            Time loss? Urgently to a psychiatrist wassat
        4. valerii41
          valerii41 12 August 2013 19: 07
          +4
          I remember the Soviet times where I fulfilled the plan as much as 105 percent to get a bonus. It turns out that 485+ 24,25 = 509.25 0,25 should be made by throwing it on one chassis. Everything will be decided last week before the New Year
    2. valerii41
      valerii41 12 August 2013 18: 33
      +8
      This is Putin's appointee since 2003. The chatter about this "super" goes off scale all the boundaries of anecdotes. One more "flies somersaults" Armenia somehow needs to be fed, so our money is floating in the right direction. For my son, he also made an office "talented" drag the Russians It is time to start a business on Poghosyan and he will pull harder than Medvedev's Taburetkin. A multi-Armenian crook revolves around the Kremlin and in the Kremlin.
      1. sneeze
        sneeze 13 August 2013 01: 19
        +2
        what about evidence of illegal actions? well, at least a little? but only serious, without "everyone knows what ..."
  • fluke
    fluke 12 August 2013 16: 50
    +4
    I can not stand such articles with an abundance of derogatory epithets, after reading a distinct taste of zakazuhi in my mouth.
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 12 August 2013 16: 56
      +5
      She is custom
      1. katran666
        katran666 12 August 2013 17: 02
        +1
        and it is, surprising only the crowd of illiterate but non-epileptic statements ... Immortal "I have not read Solzhenitsyn, but I condemn ..."
        1. valerii41
          valerii41 12 August 2013 18: 47
          +2
          About 10 years ago, the intuitive exposer of Taburetkin, Ivanov, almost every month on TV told tales about the "super" after Indonesia, they have quieted down, now they have generally stalled in short, the prosecutor's office should be engaged in this Putin brakes.
  • falcon
    falcon 12 August 2013 16: 52
    +6
    The article probably contains an element of corporate "showdown", but it is obvious what to create from scratch
    a "breakthrough" civilian car, without a long-term school, developments, is almost impossible
    1. Nikitin
      Nikitin 12 August 2013 17: 24
      +4
      The element of corporate "showdown" is brought in by the names of offended "Tupolevites" who have given years of their lives to projects. Therefore, the article looks tendentious. Children's diseases are treated, and in the end, he will most likely fly no worse and no better. The evil is, this is not our plane. Each workplace in the aviation design bureau, according to the statistics of the Ministry of Aviation Industry, gave 16 more workplaces at allied enterprises. Su-Perjet gave these places to foreign manufacturers, at the same time making the fate of serial production of the aircraft dependent on the political situation, oil prices, and so on. In this regard, it is a crime to put all your eggs in one big basket with a super name today. An article about this and for this is a plus for her. It is not clear just where does the tail that twirls the dog. What is this - an insult?
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 13 August 2013 01: 41
        +1
        Quote: Nikitin
        "... It is not clear just where does the tail that twirls the dog.
        What is this - an insult? "


        It's more like the title of the movie "The Tail Wags the Dog".
        It seems to be politics, but in fact - money laundering, and nothing personal,
        except personal business.
        Those who are objectionable to this business are being removed.

        "Why does the dog wag its tail?
        Because she is smarter than the tail.
        If the tail were smarter, it would wag the dog. "
        Original Text (Eng.)
  • Just Vasilich
    Just Vasilich 12 August 2013 16: 58
    +8
    History repeats itself, only in the opposite direction. In Soviet times, Tupolev was a king and god in the "big" aircraft industry and also enjoyed patronage in eliminating competitors. Let us recall the story of the Sukhovskoy "weaving" T-4. It was a breakthrough missile carrier "aircraft carrier killer" at that time. But by decision "from above" all work on it was stopped at the Sukhoi Design Bureau, and the documentation was transferred to the Tupolev Design Bureau. A few years later, the T-4 "weaving" was revived in the form of a civilian supersonic Tu-144 ...

    As for the desire of the "Tupolevs" to leave the KLA, these are pipe dreams. Poghosyan is now preparing for the privatization of the UAC, which is scheduled for 2016-2018.
    1. IRBIS
      IRBIS 12 August 2013 17: 19
      +3
      Quote: Just Vasilich
      Poghosyan is now preparing for the privatization of the UAC, which is scheduled for 2016-2018.

      Again this eternal "unknown" - and who will become the owner of the corporation after privatization? There are also some "techies" ... Oh, they would have a good manager ... Who will "shoulder" this "burden" - the possession of the UAC?
      I’m not Nostradamus, but one premonition torments me ... One surname pops up in my brain ... I can open it, for the money, of course ...
      1. Just Vasilich
        Just Vasilich 12 August 2013 17: 51
        +7
        IRBIS: A surname alone in the brain pops up ... I can open it, for the money, of course ...

        Save your money, let's play the folk game "Field of Miracles". I open all letters except the first and the last, and you say the whole word:

        "... ogosya ..."
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Apollo
      Apollo 12 August 2013 17: 22
      +8
      Quote: Just Vasilich
      Poghosyan is now preparing for the privatization of the UAC, which is scheduled for 2016-2018.



      by no means, jab is strategic State-owned company. These types of companies should not be privatized. This is primarily about the country's defense.
      1. Just Vasilich
        Just Vasilich 12 August 2013 17: 44
        +7
        Apollo: by no means, UAC is a strategic State-owned company. These types of companies should not be privatized.

        I will not be unfounded:
        "UAC is listed in the section of state stakes, the privatization of which is under discussion and may take place in the period from 2014 to 2016. The plan for the privatization of large assets for 2012-2013 and for the period until 2016, approved in June 2012, provided for a reduction in the share of Russia in UAC up to 50% plus 1 share ...
        According to UAC estimates, by 2015 the corporation's revenue will grow to almost $ 10 billion, and by 2020 it will exceed $ 20 billion. Poghosyan added that the UAC management is working on a plan for the privatization of the company together with the Ministry of Economic Development, Federal Property Management Agency, and the Ministry of Industry and Trade. "Link: http://www.aex.ru/news/2013/6/18/106961/
        1. valerii41
          valerii41 12 August 2013 18: 50
          +3
          All the offices listed by Poghosyan are Armenian
        2. Furnace driver
          Furnace driver 12 August 2013 20: 17
          +4
          forgot to add UAC privatization to the list of UAC privatization, as well as the corporation created in the near future on the basis of Roskomos, Rogozin himself came up with a similar initiative, not to mention other smaller corporations like Izhmashi (Kalashnikov concern) and others, so privatization 2.0 is underway full swing. Medvedev promised, Putin does: first we will cooperate, and then we will seize bully
      2. Alan
        Alan 12 August 2013 19: 05
        +3
        + You only even here on the forum are full of people who think differently. winked
    3. Pon69
      Pon69 12 August 2013 20: 14
      +3
      Moreover, the project 144 was headed by the son of Tupolev.
  • abuyanovus
    abuyanovus 12 August 2013 17: 02
    +7
    Well ... Tupolevs with the Sukhoi Design Bureau have been sharpening knives for a long time, since the history of the Tu-160, when the Tupolev Group of Companies repulsed the topic from the Sukhoi Design Bureau. They then had a ready-made missile carrier, which had passed almost all the tests and was ready for the series ... And remember, not so long ago, maybe two years ago, at the presidential TU-204, on the flyby, the front landing gear did not open? The plane that was made for the presidential administration! What can I talk about here? This is me about quality, maybe this does not apply to design bureaus and claims must be made to the plant, but this is indicative.
    So not only Sukhoi has jambs. The superjet has already been built, circled, launched into a series - it must be flying. And there is nothing to be done about it, there are so many dibs there that if this is not done, then the heads in the UAC will fly at once. But it is necessary to drive it for export. In Russia, it is necessary to build aircraft with a larger share of our components, at least 90%, with the exception of avionics and cabin equipment. And the rule is to introduce this for everyone.
    And the Tupolev Design Bureau has recently offered nothing interesting, except for its "gas" liners, which are scary to think about. They just scream that the KLA "strangles" them ... But what to do? We are now in the era of large state corporations, there is no other way, there is no way to survive in the world.
    1. Furnace driver
      Furnace driver 12 August 2013 20: 19
      +4
      yeah, tell this to the Migovites, whom Poghosyan will soon bring to the handle ... in the sense of the handle they will produce ... door, if any, and not planes.
      1. sneeze
        sneeze 13 August 2013 00: 43
        +1
        Quote: Furnace Driver
        yeah, you tell this to the migrants, whom Poghosyan will soon bring to the handle


        how does he bring them? persuades Indians to take Rafali? why did they choose a ship by boat rather than modernization on the 33rd? why are you going to buy the moment of the 35th?
        or should everyone distribute a 5th generation project?
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 13 August 2013 01: 50
          +1
          Quote: sneeze
          "How does he (Pogosyan) bring them MIG-sheep)?
          persuades Indians to take rafali? "


          The creators of the MiGs wrote an open letter to the president.
          The labor collective believes that the enterprise is on the verge of destruction.

          The team of the Engineering Center "Design Bureau named. A.I. Mikoyan "(EC),
          world-famous aviation company OJSC "RSK" MiG "
          wrote a letter to President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin
          with a request to understand the situation at the enterprise.

          According to the authors of the message,
          the company has a catastrophic situation,
          "threatening the collapse of the aviation industry."
          Employees of OKB them. A.I. Mikoyan claim that first of all problems have arisen due to the fact that over the past years
          The Center is headed by people from Sukhoi and Irkut
          ,
          which are direct competitors of the company.

          http://www.metronews.ru/novosti/sozdateli-migov-napisali-otkrytoe-pis-mo-prezide
          ntu / Tpokju --- nINEFRlUm5xiM /

          "... Moreover, the president of the UAC was Mr. Poghosyan, man
          who, being the head of the Sukhoi AAC and at the same time the Director General of MiG RSK (a little over 2 years), closed all promising topics that gave hope to the future of the world-famous legendary company named after Artyom Ivanovich Mikoyan
          .
          And it was with him that we lost the tender for the supply
          MiG-35 aircraft to India.

          For example, in the United States, in order to combat corruption, it is generally prohibited for developers to directly contact the Department of Defense
          on the development of weapons.

          7. The most unfortunate thing is that appeals to clarify the situation to the management of OJSC RSK MiG or UAC invariably remained unanswered,
          since today all these leaders are henchmen of Sukhoi or Irkut ... "
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 13 August 2013 02: 05
            +2
            Rosoboronexport explained why the Russian Federation lost Indian air tenders.

            http://topwar.ru/15226-rosoboroneksport-obyasnil-pochemu-rf-proigrala-indiyskie-
            aviatendery.html #

            "The reasons for the defeat of the Russian Federation in two last year's tenders for the supply of fighters and attack helicopters to India are connected with the fact that
            Russian equipment at the time of participation in the competition was not produced in series or was not in service with the Russian army,
            said the general director of Rosoboronexport Anatoly Isaykin.
            These tenders have become one of the largest in the world in recent years, so the cost of the contract for fighters alone (it was eventually won by France) is estimated at more than $ 10 billion. "
  • Evgeniy46
    Evgeniy46 12 August 2013 17: 09
    +6
    USSR, 60s. Andrey Tupolev - chief designer of design bureaus, his son Alexei Tupolev - chief designer of Tu-144. Or son and father are not supposed to work?
    Tu-334 development of the late 80s, in the USSR there would have been at least modernization or development of a successor. Now we have SSJ-100, of which more than 30 have been produced. They fly in Aeroflot, Yakutia, Moskovia, Interjet ... Quite a modern aircraft. The availability of foreign spare parts allows it to be quickly serviced at other airports, although it would be good to raise the share of our parts to 70-75%. In any case, it is released, flies, carries passengers
    1. viktorR
      viktorR 12 August 2013 19: 10
      +5
      USSR, 60s. Andrey Tupolev - chief designer of design bureaus, his son Alexey Tupolev - chief designer of Tu-144

      Add to this the fact that one hundredth was closed thanks to Tupolev and the documentation was given to him one hundredth ...
      1. Argon
        Argon 13 August 2013 00: 35
        0
        You undertake to discuss the topic without having even the slightest idea about the issue. Documentation on the "weaving" went to TsAGI, as well as on its competitor M-50 (where the material is analyzed, people write desserts and by the way textbooks), both cars were a collection of rather risky, untested engineering and design solutions (later some of them were confirmed, and many were not) promising the modernization of the entire aviation industry (read, spending not small funds) with a real rather controversial increase in the potential of the Air Force units in any war scenarios (and since the issue was controversial , then, as an aviation expert, they turned to Tupolev, because he felt this "theme" when copying and adjusting the "Tu-4 series") T-144 (in spite of its appearance, which in general is understandable, the 100th will be younger). Yes, and it is much closer to the "Concorde". Best regards.
        1. viktorR
          viktorR 13 August 2013 11: 42
          +1
          Ie weaving failed the test? Or maybe disasters with her participation have occurred? Is the decision to close the program based on the subjective opinion of a competitor? Or maybe you want to say that Tupolev indifferently reacted to weaving? You probably read about the episode when you discussed the hundreds project, Tupolev then said that they say he knows Sukhoi because he is his student, and he knows that he cannot build such a machine, to which Sukhoi answered him: precisely because I am your student, and I can build this car. Tupolev’s pride was hurt ...

          In general, it is not for us to judge which project had the right to life, and which did not, for me the main drawback of the hundredth is the price of all work on it. But there are a lot of pluses, it was a breakthrough even despite the fact that she did not go into the series. A huge number of new technologies. processing and welding of titanium large parts, EMDS, etc.
  • knn54
    knn54 12 August 2013 17: 19
    -1
    I am not special, but HUGE folk money is ruined. The RESULT does not impress - the plane is not brought to mind. NO RESPONSIBILITY. It seems that state-owned corporations are creating ONLY FOR CUT.
    1. tanit
      tanit 12 August 2013 17: 53
      0
      Create something of your own. From the area where you are special. And bring it to mind (try) smile And you will be convinced that there is no sawing ... There is a standard ........... When something starts to "sculpt" without a project (conductive, it is already just about) Then, by a project without a state examination (and we have everything, honestly) And then - to alter everything or bring it to the project with a file. In fact, it's a shame - that kind of money has been pumped through, it would be better if they saw it.
      1. knn54
        knn54 12 August 2013 20: 04
        +8
        tanit. My development / modernization of the device /, protected by copyright, is still working in Baikonur. The proposal for the device (Satan / Stiletto) gave a good economic effect + increased reliability. And no red tape, co-authorship by the management.
        Yes, there were a lot of "sculptures" for BURAN, but there were also "wishes" in the development process.
        I understand this is not quite that. But there is a design bureau, and each has its own niche.
        And we must remember that MONOPOLISM LEADS TO ROTATION.
  • Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 12 August 2013 17: 42
    +7
    something the article smacks of custom poop ....
  • kind
    kind 12 August 2013 17: 44
    +3
    Why does Pogosyan’s tail spin the rest of the dog?

    Yes, because even the dog is useless.
  • Basileus
    Basileus 12 August 2013 18: 10
    0
    The trouble is, since the cobbler will start the pies, And the boots will stitch the pie.

    Poghosyan stopped early! It was also necessary to create a unit for the development of trucks and long-range bombers. So that everything would be done Dry. And helicopters are a must! It’s high time to restrain the KLA and show that competition is good, and climbing a strange loaf is bad.
  • angarchanin
    angarchanin 12 August 2013 18: 16
    +8
    Obviously an article with a bias to justify the offended. One thing seems to be true: there is no such competition as in the USSR in 30-60. "Tupolevs" could refresh their memory with the commissioning of the Tu-104 (alteration of the Tu-16); Allegedly, the transfer of the Tu-22M2 for military tests (these tests, if I am not mistaken, lasted from the day of delivery to the troops until the replacement of this aircraft with the Tu-22M3). Representatives of the plant were at all regiments of the Long-Range Aviation). It would be possible to write and write, but the essence will be lost: there are no and should not be other interests in the design bureau, except for the state, and everything else is from the evil one.
  • not good
    not good 12 August 2013 18: 17
    +6
    There is a proposal for the organization of state competition: it is necessary to create another UAC and with KB not wanting to work with Poghosyan. And the results will be !!
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 12 August 2013 18: 25
      +4
      I only talked about the same thing with a friend in a polemic. The second UAC, the second association in heavy armored vehicles as opposed to UVZ, etc. True, it’s too late with the tankers - Peter and Omsk are hopelessly plundered by the Tagilites, but you can still have time with the aviators.
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 13 August 2013 02: 15
        +2
        Quote: Negoro
        "There is a proposal for organizing a state competition:
        it is necessary to create another UAC and with KB not wanting to work with Pogosyan.
        And the results will be !! "


        Who will give money for this? The budget has already been signed.
        And where to get them? Sochi Olympics in 2014.
        And without money, nothing will work.
        Free of charge working on one enthusiasm for a long time no longer work.
  • voliador
    voliador 12 August 2013 18: 34
    -1
    Of this PoganoXiang has long been like a stool - kick in the ass!
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 12 August 2013 18: 42
    0
    Enough already to brazenly lie. The entire aircraft is created from the world on a thread, the Tu-334 was sucks at birth, and now, after 20 years, it makes no sense to remember it. And do not drive on Yakovlev, you can not shove your goods, so sit on a quiet planet and breed sklissov.

    Yes, and in the USSR there was no competition in civilian life, they took everything that Tupolev drove, and then it turned out that the 154th in front of competitors is both a "nine" in front of a foreign car, and the state is to blame.
    1. experienced
      experienced 12 August 2013 19: 50
      +4
      Quote: Avenger711
      Yes, and in the USSR there was no competition in civilian life, they took everything that Tupolev drove, and then it turned out that the 154th in front of competitors is both a "nine" in front of a foreign car, and the state is to blame.

      Well, at one time, the nine worked well in front of used foreign cars. Another thing is that gang wars were going on in Tolyatti then, and so I completely left on the nine, I did not know any problems, then I gave it to my mother and now drives (the car in 1998 in the carburetor), the owner promised to drink moonshine for "Swallow" (according to my mother) wassat I think to come and drink his whiskey ...
    2. sleepy
      sleepy 13 August 2013 02: 31
      +2
      Quote: Avenger711
      "Enough already brazenly lying. All aircraft are created with the world on a string, the Tu-334 sucked at birth, and now, 20 years later, there is no point in remembering it ..."


      Many people remember how the collapse of the domestic aircraft industry began,
      and are not going to forget.
      From lobbying to foreign airlines.

      Order of the Government of the Russian Federation of May 24, 1994 N 737-r
      "On full exemption from customs payments of aviation equipment
      Accept the proposal of the Ministry of Transport of Russia, agreed with the Ministry of Finance of Russia
      and the State Customs Committee of Russia, on full exemption from customs duties and taxes for A-310-300 aircraft, spare parts and engines for them ... "

      The order of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 2, 1994 N 1898-r
      "On full exemption from customs duties for a period of 5 years,
      duties and taxes of foreign aircraft, equipment
      for their operation and maintenance, as well as spare parts and engines ... "

      Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of July 7, 1998 N 716
      "... the Ministry of Economy of the Russian Federation, within a month
      to the Commission of the Government of the Russian Federation on protective measures
      in foreign trade and customs tariff policy proposals
      on changing rates of import customs duties on aircraft,
      foreign-made engines and flight simulators ... ".

      The order of the Government of the Russian Federation of July 7, 1998 N 913-r
      "... Accept the proposal of the FAS Russia, agreed with the Ministry of Finance of Russia, the Ministry of Economy of Russia, the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, the State Customs Committee of Russia and the State Tax Service of Russia, on complete exemption from customs duties (except for customs duties) 10 B-737 aircraft, 4 aircraft A-310 and 2 aircraft B-777, as well as engines and flight simulators ... "

      The order of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 28, 1999 N 2130-r
      "On complete exemption from customs duties (except for customs duties) for 4 B-767-300 ER aircraft and aircraft engines for them ..."

      The order of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 28, 1999 N 2131-r
      "On the extension for five years of the validity period of the Government order
      Russian Federation of December 2, 1994 N 1898-p "

      Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of August 02, 2001 N 574
      The Government of the Russian Federation decides:
      "1. To establish that with regard to foreign aircraft imported on the basis of previously adopted decisions of the Government of the Russian Federation,
      spare parts and engines for it, as well as simulators,
      the condition of full exemption from customs duties and taxes remains ... "

      Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 25, 2002 N 927
      "... about full exemption from customs duties
      (excluding customs duties) for Airbus A319 / 320/321 type aircraft (18 units) and Boeing 767 (5 units), including engines, spare parts
      and simulators for them ... "
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 13 August 2013 02: 54
        +2
        How they killed the domestic aircraft industry.

        "The plant is your home, the plant is your family. And if you are not a hopeless drunk,
        then everything will be all right with you, just work!
        So they worked on the Aviation - all in all and burst. 100 aircraft per year.
        9 handsome "Tu" every month took off into the sky from the factory airfield.
        And spit in the eyes of the one who says that we had bad airplanes.
        These were the most reliable and safest aircraft in the world!
        There was not a single accident on the TU-154 due to the glider.

        And another quote from our death sentence with you,
        guys, native plant:
        "Unfortunately, recently there has been an extremely dangerous tendency of thoughtless lobbying of the interests of the domestic aircraft building complex on the part of government agencies..
        Please support the question about inadmissibility of serial launch
        TU-204 aircraft to Russian air routes and the continuation of the doctrine of the acquisition of leased advanced models of Western aircraft
        ".
        (Letter from the Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation for Economics A. Livshits
        To the Government of the Russian Federation NA-1 1268L of April 3, 1995).

        Once upon a time, 100 planes flew up from here to the sky.
        Now at Aviakor they dream of 10.
        Data for February 2008: from 28 thousand workers
        At the plant there are 3,5 thousand.
        The average salary in the Plant is 9374 rubles.
        I’m afraid that the top management salary also entered here, which,
        as you know, in spending on oneself, loved ones, usually not shy.

        All "social" is destroyed.
        In a former factory dispensary addicts are now pumped out.
        ... Well, how am I going to go to my mother’s grave with this?
        Here, in ruins, through the wind I hear:
        - What have you done, daughter? .. ".
        http://www.x-libri.ru/elib/borzv000/00000311.htm
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 13 August 2013 03: 12
          +2
          PS Previously, this text gave a link
          http://kan-kendarat.livejournal.com/17641.html
          Now this link is not valid.
          Some other links to other hot topics are not valid.
          Can someone clean the Internet by deleting information that is objectionable to someone?
          Similar to the work of George Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" from the novel "1984".
  • Andrey Skokovsky
    Andrey Skokovsky 12 August 2013 18: 44
    +8
    it seems that from the time of Stalin an effective KB system was developed under the guidance of specific talented techies personally responsible for the final result
    there was also a state acceptance comparison of products of different design bureaus, and this assessment was not carried out by the developers of the equipment, but by the state, industry, plus those who will directly operate it

    is it really not clear that the concentration of all processes inside the faceless UAC leads to the elimination of the fading of competing design bureaus and, as a result, in the absence of competition, to a decline in the quality of the final product and the dawn of corruption.
  • valokordin
    valokordin 12 August 2013 19: 29
    +4
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky

    is it really not clear that the concentration of all processes inside the faceless UAC leads to the elimination of the fading of competing design bureaus and, as a result, in the absence of competition, to a decline in the quality of the final product and the dawn of corruption.

    Someone minus you, but you are 100% right
  • APASUS
    APASUS 12 August 2013 19: 54
    +1
    Here is a modern image of an entrepreneur director, what prestige of the country can we talk about ??
  • lazy
    lazy 12 August 2013 19: 55
    +2
    Pogosyan’s prototype is Tupolev’s, he treated the illness of a child only during operation, and even compared the plane with the child saying how much he needs to grow, as a result of the Tu-22, the M3 version only began to meet the requirements of the military, despite all his dislike for Pogosyan, the article of the offended Tupolev’s on dry KB. well, no luck to them. if Tupolev were alive during the time of reform with his experience of an undercover fight, now everyone would be offended by Tupolev
    1. valerii41
      valerii41 12 August 2013 21: 32
      -5
      Under Stalin, the loot was not tyrili had to hit on time. Three times the hero Pokryshkin was offered by the commissars from the American "Aircobra" at the end of the war to transfer to the Armenian MIG, and plus the fourth asterisk. How so a Soviet hero on American technology. For Pokryshkin, a wall loomed out, before he fought in the "Aircobra" MIG planes were removed from production for Pokryshkin, this is tantamount to suicide Here the Transcaucasian community Dzhugashvili Mikoyanf played the role
      1. V. Tarasyan
        V. Tarasyan 12 August 2013 23: 45
        +4
        You know a bad story, dear. Pokryshkin’s third star was August 19, 1944, discontinued MiG-3 - 1942. How could Hero Pokryshkin three times transfer to MiG-3 in mid-1944? If only on a used one ...
        Three times Hero on a two-year-old fighter?
        I do not see the logic absolutely.
        1. valerii41
          valerii41 13 August 2013 13: 37
          -2
          Until the end of the war he flew, it was Pokryshkin who had to be put on a Soviet plane, it was on Soviet planes that he earned three stars. Armenians and Jews have one illness to explain to others "You know the story poorly, dear" The Turks were also told until the age of 15, they explained to you "History must be respected" As you, as the sons of Noah, do not impose your history on us. The chosen ones of God-Jews to Europeans since the 7th century have been saying "You don't know the story well, dear" Something was there. In 33, the Jews told the Germans "You know the story badly, dear" Germans explained the history must be respected. Engage in your history. His crooks are enough, and even imported from Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Israel, without issuing it is too much. I voted for Putin so that there was a result against the bust, and he turned out to be the "big brother" for all of the above
          1. V. Tarasyan
            V. Tarasyan 13 August 2013 16: 35
            0
            Incidentally, I am a Russian person, although my surname is Armenian. But I was never ashamed of her, and, I hope, will not. Unlike some, I registered under my real name and did it consciously.
            Now on the topic. We read carefully and think with our heads. So:
            In the spring of 1943, the regiment received a new materiel - the American R-39 Airacobra fighters. On these machines, the pilots of the 16th GIAP got into the epicenter of air battles - in the Kuban. It was here that A. Pokryshkin's remarkable abilities as a fighter pilot were manifested. He was the first to widely use the battle formation called "Kuban Shelf" and contributed to its introduction into all divisions of fighter aviation of the USSR. He also developed and implemented other elements of air combat, such as getting out of an enemy strike on a downward roll with a loss of speed ... The enemy who gaped missed the target and ended up in sight. "Look for the enemy," Pokryshkin taught. "He is not you, but you must find him. Surprise and initiative is a victory. Attack boldly, decisively. Maneuver so as to deceive, outwit the enemy. you will already achieve a lot. "

            According to official data, Pokryshkin shot down 16 enemy aircraft in the sky of the Kuban, but in fact this number was much higher. Only on April 12, in the area of ​​the village of Krymskaya, he destroyed 4 Bf.109 in the air, and on April 28, in one battle, he shot down as many as five German "laptezhniki" Ju.87. During patrols, the Soviet ace never flew in a straight line so as not to lose speed in a small area. His fighter moved in waves, along the trajectory of an inclined ellipse.

            May 24, Pokryshkin was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union. By this time, he had already counted 25 enemy aircraft shot down. Three months later, he was awarded the second Golden Star.

            Source: http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ace2ww/pilots/pokrishk.html
            There is still much interesting about Pokryshkin and about MiGs.
            1. valerii41
              valerii41 13 August 2013 18: 36
              -1
              Read a long time ago. The Luftwaffe Hauptmann Helmut Lipfert fought in those parts of the world. I clicked 6 "AEROCOBRA" mostly LAGGY YAK and ILA 203 pieces. The statistics are sad. Tactics like Pokryshkin. The conversation is about the theft and failure of Poghosyan. For 10 years the "BAZAR" has been going on during this time the expedition could return from Mars.
              1. V. Tarasyan
                V. Tarasyan 13 August 2013 20: 04
                +1
                Specifically here, the "bazaar" goes for Pokryshkin and MiG-3. You yourself switched to nationality.
                Regarding the accounts of German aces, think for yourself how it happened that according to their calculations, every Soviet aircraft, including in the rear, was shot down several times? Nobody canceled arithmetic at the level of the first or second class.
      2. Argon
        Argon 13 August 2013 00: 44
        0
        You are a young man, do not write comments, but you need to read more, if you can’t stand the dispute, take the trouble not to interrupt!
      3. sleepy
        sleepy 13 August 2013 02: 50
        0
        Quote: valerii41
        "Three times the hero Pokryshkin was offered by the commissars from the American" Airacobra "at the end of the war to transfer to the Armenian MIG ..."


        With this logic, one can assume that the Katyusha drivers
        offered at the end of the war to transfer from the American Studebakers
        (Studebaker US6) for domestic ZILs, so what?
        Somehow one cannot believe that at the end of the war the commissars ordered military pilots.

        Maybe the commissars aimed at Pokryshkin’s back during sorties, if
        "A wall loomed for Pokryshkin"


        "Here the role of the Transcaucasian community of Dzhugashvili - Mikoyanf played."

        But what about Stalin’s support for Ilyushin, Shpagin, and other developers of Soviet weapons — are they also fellow countrymen?
        1. valerii41
          valerii41 13 August 2013 13: 55
          -2
          Dzhugashvili really didn’t want to put his belly on, took “Studebakers”, “Airacobras” and so on. Someone, it happened, did not carefully praise imported goods, and ended up in the "clean hands" of "glorious security officers"; yes, and the stars did not count for Pokryshkin, it was not very comfortable. Dzhugashvili imprisoned the wives of his comrades in the Kremlin, and Mikoyan and Beria were happy with their wives. We moved away from the topic of international theft and their patrons.
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 14 August 2013 02: 46
            0
            Quote: valerii41
            "Dzhugashvili really didn't want to put his belly ..."


            Therefore, he sent sons to the front?

            "Someone, this happened, will praise the carelessly imported
            ended up in the "clean hands" of "glorious chekists"


            During the war, the Studebakers were often praised without fear.
            On the Road of Life during the blockade of Leningrad "Studebaker"
            preference was given to a lack of fuel.
            True, the Studebakers needed strong ice.
            The fact that because of the praise of Lend-Lease, someone was taken there -
            myth of Suvorov (Rezun) and his followers.

            "Dzhugashvili imprisoned the wives of his associates in the Kremlin ..."

            Usually they write that Beria planted wink
            I would like a link to the planted wives of Stalin's associates.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 12 August 2013 19: 59
    +5
    Wow, what a delicious little article. Not really delivered. Especially Tupolev's cry of Yaroslavl, "oh, we are poor, but we are being squeezed." It's ridiculous to listen, they remembered Yakovlev's whales, but look for a speck in their own eyes? not uninteresting huh? For the Myasishev design bureau, remember, for the Sukhovsky hundred square meters, remember for the Tu 22M2? I have not heard ... I understand.
    There are still tons of goodies:
    The Russian-French SaM-146 engine is rather weak for a 3,5 ton heavy aircraft.
    - But the man is well-deserved, but repeats the nonsense of the journalist.
    It is known that in civil aviation safety comes first, and economy comes second.
    - from because the Design Bureau Tupolev is now where it is, that is, very deep in (_ * _)
    And I see that an extra pair of eyes oh how needed in a difficult situation. Many disasters in the presence of a flight engineer in the cockpit simply would not have happened.
    from only statistics on the A320 for example suggests otherwise.
    He promised not to shake the money from the state, but to build a new regional plane through extrabudgetary funding for the project. Later, due to design “successes” and managerial talent, Poghosyan’s airplane transferred to himself and sucked all the budgets of the aviation industry
    But the Audit Chamber of the Russian Federation does not agree with this.
    Tupolevites, Antonovites, Ilyushin residents will never give out an airplane with such a host of "childhood diseases"
    And apparently Tu 204 and An 148 did something wrong Tupolev and Antonov
    - Alexander Bobryshev from Irkut. Trojan horse Poghosyan. Now everything is being done so that there is no Tu-214, Tu-204SM (a lot of money, by the way, was poured into the modernization and certification of the aircraft)
    - and so here is sadness what sadness is. For 20 years they tormented the plane, they won’t bring it to their senses. In just 80 years they just built it, but now we know for sure that it’s not the Tupolevites themselves that Bobryshe is to blame for everything and of course Pogosyan.
    Long-range Tu-204-300 shows better results than A-320
    No comments.
    For the kind of money that they threatened the Superjet, the stick can be taught to fly. We would have been given a part with Ilyushins, we would have shown decent cars.
    we would, yes, if mushrooms would grow in our mouth, someone would not show from 204, but give money and we are here uhhh, or maybe even ehhh
  • nbw
    nbw 12 August 2013 20: 00
    0
    Dear comrades / gentlemen!

    I recommend that everyone interested in the topic get acquainted with the materials of the site

    http://superjet.wikidot.com/

    , in particular, the section "Myths of the media". There are many interesting things. There are answers to all, all questions.
    1. nbw
      nbw 12 August 2013 20: 34
      +1
      It is interesting that some comrades (who are probably "not comrades at all" for us) prefer minus rather than familiarize themselves with the topic, thus clearly demonstrating their level of development.
      1. experienced
        experienced 12 August 2013 20: 38
        +1
        Quote: nbw
        It is interesting that some comrades (who are probably "not comrades at all" for us) prefer minus rather than familiarize themselves with the topic, thus clearly demonstrating their level of development.


        I minus you, based on my ideas about the Pogost, its creatures and WHAT? winked
        I have your own opinion have your own fountain, do not write to someone else ...
        Poghosyan got into civil aviation and ... reaping the benefits request
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            1. nbw
              nbw 12 August 2013 20: 54
              -1
              Thank you for the ratings for my acting succession.
              Passing off elementary illiteracy as "acting" is undoubtedly a courageous and sudden method in a discussion laughing
              to scatter your posts as volumes of "War and Peace"
              Let me tell you that you are twisting. This was my first post on this resource containing this link. Simply put, I do not "throw" anything, and you are a liar winked
              time will tell
              History will judge us ... Then I take my leave, because you are apparently not able to give birth to anything interesting. I won’t even minus you (somehow unpleasant) hi
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      2. valerii41
        valerii41 13 August 2013 18: 38
        +1
        You need to look not at the articles, but what flies over your head
    2. valerii41
      valerii41 12 August 2013 21: 14
      0
      Dear nbw under Catherine the Great, there was a court jeweler Lazaryan, a historical fact. After the murder of Shah Nadir, a precious stone disappeared from his throne and ended up in Holland. Orlov as a gift, in Europe they knew a stolen pebble, as a gift to Lazaryan another third of the Perm Territory with serfs. Together with Stroganov and other thieving Russians they heated their hands on copper money, and this is what the Armenians consider as odd entrepreneurship. Putin is the same woman Katka. We have a powerful intellectual design base, it is enough to gather these people and solve problems in many areas. Poghosyan is not interested in collecting these people, just put his paw on the loot
      1. nbw
        nbw 12 August 2013 21: 18
        +3
        Thieves are everywhere. The same, do not be remembered by night, Serdyukov is a Slav in all fields. And as for Putin, you, it seems to me, got excited. This is the first head of state in a hundred years, for whom it is not a shame. http://politobzor.net/show-3342-putin-bratya-i-sestry-podnimaytes-na-zaschitu-ot
        echestva.html
        1. sleepy
          sleepy 13 August 2013 03: 19
          +2
          Quote: nbw
          "... And about Putin - I think you got excited.
          This is the first head of state in a hundred years who is not ashamed of. "


          And for Nicholas II, of the Romanov family,
          which recently celebrated 400 years in Russia with great fanfare,
          comes out ashamed?

          But what about D. Medvedev - is he embarrassed to marry him?
          1. nbw
            nbw 13 August 2013 06: 36
            0
            And for Nicholas II, of the Romanov family <...> comes out ashamed?
            And how. "Thanks" to him in Russia there was such a f * ck that has never happened before. One can argue a lot about whether Russia's entry into WWI was justified, but the rest of his "exploits" cause nothing but grief. Russo-Japanese pr ** ral, gave all sorts of socialists a link instead of the gallows, and in the end he also abdicated the throne.
            But what about D. Medvedev - is he embarrassed to marry him?
            Are you laughing? The only thing he remembered for was renaming the police to the police and playing around with time zones, and even that somehow crookedly. Oh yes, even Libya surrendered to world imperialism
            1. sleepy
              sleepy 14 August 2013 03: 03
              +2
              Quote: nbw
              "... Are you laughing? The only thing he remembers is
              renamed the police to the police and played with time zones, and even then somehow crookedly. Oh yes, Libya has also been surrendered to world imperialism. "


              He was given a chance to improve on a new job.
      2. Aljavad
        Aljavad 13 August 2013 03: 56
        +2
        yes, yes, yes ... collect ... return from pension .. "... Some are not, but those are far away ..."
  • nbw
    nbw 12 August 2013 20: 22
    -1
    And the author of the article, sorry, g * vyuk ordered. Name the respected aircraft designer comrade Poghosyan's "dog" (for the eyes, please note) can only be done. It would be nice for the moderators to pay attention to the direct insult in the title.
    1. experienced
      experienced 12 August 2013 20: 25
      +7
      Quote: nbw
      And the author of the article, sorry, g * vyuk ordered. Name the respected aircraft designer comrade Poghosyan's "dog" (for the eyes, please note) can only be done. It would be nice for the moderators to pay attention to the direct insult in the title.

      Do you speak Russian? Do you know the philology "The tail twists the dog"? In this case, Pogosyan Tail, our dog in the aviation industry ... However, to whom am I explaining fool
      1. nbw
        nbw 12 August 2013 20: 38
        0
        However, to whom I explain
        Do we know each other?

        In this case, Poghosyan is the tail, the dog is our aircraft industry ...

        //fixed

        A connoisseur of the Russian language, you know, turned up.

        The title of the article is clearly offensive, and uses this idiom ("the tail twists the dog") only as a disguise. Obviously.
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            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 12 August 2013 21: 06
              +2
              Since the 58th? And what side to aviation?
              1. nbw
                nbw 12 August 2013 21: 11
                0
                No, not from the 58th. And not "sideways to aviation" (if anything, just an amateur - I read / am interested), but just a little annoying frank biased distortions (as in this article, for example).
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                      1. nbw
                        nbw 12 August 2013 21: 29
                        +1
                        He laughs well, which of the non-skulls
                        Yes, he was a "skull" and an "elephant". So I don’t take it as an insult) And I’m not against making up, I’m not that a pacifist (my worldview does not allow), but a peaceful person)
    2. sleepy
      sleepy 13 August 2013 03: 27
      0
      Quote: nbw
      "... Name the respected aircraft designer Comrade Poghosyan ..."


      Poghosyan aircraft designer - is that true?

      Here in St. Petersburg, graduates of St. Petersburg State University aerospace instrumentation (SUAI) receiving a diploma all that they can do is distribute cash flows correctly so that no one is offended.
      They know how to buy and sell profitably. They know how to eliminate costs.
      Such are the specialists.
      1. valerii41
        valerii41 13 August 2013 18: 46
        0
        "They know how to eliminate costs" How did the tweezers of the American president squeeze the wallet? Or do they constantly keep their hand in our pocket so that the pennies do not fall into my hands?
  • TAGIR
    TAGIR 12 August 2013 21: 31
    +3
    Boots should be sharpened by a shoemaker, and a cake should be baked ... If Poghosyan with his pseudo-jet didn’t get into civil aviation (and by that time Tu204 and Tu334 with engines and RR were ready) all of Russia would have flown on modern carcasses long ago with two pilots and a glass cabin.
    1. nbw
      nbw 12 August 2013 21: 50
      -1
      Dear Tagir, about the Tu-334 it is well written here http://superjet.wikidot.com/wiki:killed334
  • Ppsh
    Ppsh 12 August 2013 21: 46
    -1
    No one would fly to Tu. Why? When the Superjet was still in the picture, the orders were already coming. No one has ever seen the MS-21, but 150 have already been ordered. But there were no orders for the Tu-334 !! No one had such a creation! The market put everything in its place.
    1. TAGIR
      TAGIR 12 August 2013 21: 52
      +6
      Poghosyan said there are orders for 800 liners - he bluffed. The Aviastar would have spanked Tu204 with might and main. There was no funding, but there were orders. You are simply not in the subject. Poghosyan had all the money (state). As a result, the people were dismissed or sent to 2/3 of the salary to sweep the territory and, if not for the Il476, the plant would end!
    2. sleepy
      sleepy 13 August 2013 03: 32
      +3
      Quote: PPSh
      "... But there were no orders for the Tu-334! No one could have had such a creation!"
      The market put everything in its place.
      "

      Not the market put everything in its place, but lobbying of the foreign aviation industry
      to the detriment of domestic.
      Lobbying began in the early 90s.

      “Unfortunately, recently there has been an extremely dangerous tendency of thoughtless lobbying of the interests of the domestic aircraft building complex on the part of government agencies.
      Please support the question about inadmissibility of serial launch
      aircraft TU-204 for Russian air routes and the continuation of the doctrine of leasing advanced models of Western aircraft ".

      (Letter from the Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation for Economics A. Livshits
      To the Government of the Russian Federation NA-1 1268L of April 3, 1995).
  • The comment was deleted.
  • michajlo
    michajlo 12 August 2013 23: 24
    +4
    Quote: Nikitin
    The element of corporate "showdown" is brought in by the names of offended "Tupolevites" who have given years of their lives to projects. Therefore, the article looks tendentious. Children's diseases are treated, and in the end, he will most likely fly no worse and no better. The evil is, this is not our plane. Each workplace in the aviation design bureau, according to the statistics of the Ministry of Aviation Industry, gave 16 more workplaces at allied enterprises. Su-Perjet gave these places to foreign manufacturers, at the same time making the fate of serial production of the aircraft dependent on the political situation, oil prices, and so on. In this regard, it is a crime to put all your eggs in one big basket with a super name today. An article about this and for this is a plus for her. It is not clear just where does the tail that twirls the dog. What is this - an insult?

    № 1
    Good evening everyone! The article is good, regardless of the goals of the author, because describes the real state in the aviation industry and the reasons that preceded it.
    The fact that different design bureaus and factories "pushed through" their project is as old as the world and understandable.
    But the fact that what a sneaky Pogsyan "pulled off" the entire blanket of funding is more drawn to the Criminal case than to describe the "successes" of the next reformer / manager of the family "feeding trough".
    Everyone who worked in design bureaus knows at work that even suddenly received from heaven complete technical documentation, so a new product, even a copy is difficult to make right away, because there is always important "little details from the sex life of insects", which until you try everything, study it, you will not fill cones, You can’t create anything reliable and worthwhile and you won’t be able to set up serial production.
    Therefore, if for a period of 90-2010, a scammer / manager pushes to the side or to the storehouse the tested, even certified aircraft, this is not called competition but sabotage, only in the Kremlin, the arbiters of the fate of the people do not understand.
    Since all the promised novelties "Poghosyan, Family and Co" does not for their earned funds, but for state funds, the return of which or the promised products is NO, or 3-8 years late.

    Sculpting a Russian sticker on assembly parts from around the world is not only embarrassing, but risky, and with their lives for this commerce, pilots and passengers will pay!

    Right here they already wrote that the Russian planes should be made in Russia and take all details from YOUR reliable partners (Russia + Belarus and Kazakhstan), since my native Ukraine is no longer reliable!

    The fact that some small aircraft (L-410) will be produced in the Czech Republic by a Russian owner’s plant is undoubtedly good and there will be more work in the Czech Republic, but you can enjoy it even then, when the whole Russian aviation industry arises from the ashes and begins to produce all kinds of aircraft, both military and civilian, which is still very far away! And an empty small niche can be filled with a suitable model.
  • michajlo
    michajlo 12 August 2013 23: 25
    +6
    № 2
    And besides, over these decades of the collapse and systematic destruction of the air sector of the former UNION, personnel are leaking, designers, test pilots, mechanics, highly skilled mechanics and electronics engineers, there are very few young and students, so the payment and prestige are low (many young people dream of reselling or fraud on exchanges sad ).

    The fact that a drawing has long been drawn on a PC and not on a Kuhlmann does not mean anything.
    The result requires talents, enthusiasts and "hard workers", which with a pencil can draw any knot.
    Because the PC and mouse are not endowed with talent, powerful PCs can help and accelerate the development and development of any devices, but only when talented and spiritualized people work for them. good

    And if tomorrow suddenly "from the sky" a big bag of finance for aviation falls, this is also good, but it will not solve the problem at once, and some sick calluses, it will not even "shave off" at all.
    Regarding relama, they say - the engine of progress, here I generally disagree, since the purpose of advertising is to fool a stupid consumer with "feces" in a beautiful wrapper,
    а there is practically no need to advertise good products, rumor precedes them and creates a "look(image) reliable durable super-product ".
    1. falcon
      falcon 13 August 2013 00: 49
      +2
      Logically and Arguably +
  • phantom359
    phantom359 12 August 2013 23: 28
    +3
    Again internal squabbles. Instead of joining forces and raising the aviation industry, relations are sorted out, and competitors, meanwhile, are pushing their products. And so with their kickbacks, half of the time was shaved.
  • 094711601
    094711601 12 August 2013 23: 34
    +2
    I would very much ask, dear participants in the conversation, to refrain from sticking national labels! At least it looks unethical! A minus article. Just cross-company billing, and no specifics. If a person is guilty before the law, contact the prosecutor!
  • V. Tarasyan
    V. Tarasyan 12 August 2013 23: 54
    +4
    We have a powerful intellectual design base, it is enough to gather these people and solve problems in many areas.

    Unfortunately, a designer who is not engaged in his direct work for at least a year is disqualified. It will take him a lot more time to enter the operating mode. So that just does not work, alas.
    1. valerii41
      valerii41 13 August 2013 14: 04
      -1
      What are these designers? The main loot is that everything else is slapped abroad and we will give the name "SUPER JET-100". Look at us, what foreigners we are.
      1. V. Tarasyan
        V. Tarasyan 13 August 2013 16: 24
        +1
        What does it have to do with abroad? It was about domestic designers. Recently, the situation began to improve, but, of course, these are not Soviet times. Now the situation is completely different. What one hundred designers used to calculate, now one can do, armed with appropriate technologies. But this one needs PRACTICE and EXPERIENCE, which you can’t get and buy nowhere. Therefore, it remains only to work and work. And to all.
  • Backfire
    Backfire 13 August 2013 00: 20
    -3
    Oh, it's not for nothing that Yakovlev is mentioned here, with his ability to get into the trust of the "tsar".
    I recommend to everyone the book "On Peacefully Sleeping Airfields", the first edition is better.
    Of course, Putin’s lackeys are not suitable for Stalin’s soles, but the rest is the same
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 13 August 2013 00: 38
      0
      Quote: Backfire
      Putin's nonsense

      Before you beat on the keyboard, first think of your flawed mind with your mind: - "And could I say the same to a person in the eyes, from arm's length." It seems to me that Putin would have extinguished you by simply spitting, without even touching such a "beckfir" tongue
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 13 August 2013 03: 38
        +2
        Quote: cherkas.oe
        "Before you beat on the keyboard, first figure it out with your mind ..."


        There at the bottom of the comment is "Report site violations"
        and falling to such a level is not necessary.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 13 August 2013 00: 27
    +2
    Quote: Backfire
    Of course, Putin’s lackeys are not suitable for Stalin’s soles, but the rest is the same

    Your monkey, to Churchill even further. smile
  • serioga
    serioga 13 August 2013 01: 10
    +1


    And what are reptilian mattresses doing here? laughing
  • gileon
    gileon 13 August 2013 01: 17
    +1
    Quote: polkownik1
    Disgusting and extremely dangerous is the situation when something is "pushed through" in aviation. Such a system should be changed dramatically.

    What is the problem? Change.
  • efeer
    efeer 13 August 2013 01: 23
    +1
    The article, of course, is suitable in some places, but what side of Putin were dragged to Pogosyan? Is it so fashionable now?
    1. voliador
      voliador 13 August 2013 01: 43
      +1
      And who patronizes Poghosyan, you, my dear, did not wonder?
  • Sirs
    Sirs 13 August 2013 02: 56
    +1
    Yes, the IL-476 was sold, and how much more, after all, the army needs 476 as air. Here is an example where you need to crush, and the situation with the super100 is just a drop in this area, competition is needed and that’s it.
  • sleepy
    sleepy 13 August 2013 03: 44
    -2
    Somehow all the comments on Poghosyan.

    A bit from the article.
    "Exactly a week ago, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, at a meeting in the government on civil and military aircraft, uttered several iconic phrases:
    "- Despite all the measures taken, the civil aviation market
    in the Russian Federation is largely lost by our industrialists,
    by our manufacturers.
    We will not remember why this happened, all the time nod to the past,
    but the fact remains that up to 80% of all aircraft operating on civilian lines within the country are foreign-made.
    The situation is intolerable. "
    .

    That is, we will not recall the culprits of the collapse of the domestic aviation industry, otherwise they (the culprits of the collapse) will hiccup loudly.
    It’s not good, remember, says D. Rogozin. Need to work.
    Let's forget and go to work.
    There are so many automobile factories under Peter — work and work.
    So with a screwdriver Superjet - they urge you to work, not discuss.
    1. sneeze
      sneeze 13 August 2013 15: 59
      +3
      Quote: sleepy
      with screwdriver Superjet


      screwdrivers are also used, yes)

      1. valerii41
        valerii41 13 August 2013 18: 55
        +1
        For a long time showed videos with Khodarkovsky, very similar. On the bunk, Hodor has something to remember
      2. sleepy
        sleepy 14 August 2013 02: 57
        +1
        Quote: sneeze
        "screwdrivers are also used, yes)
        "

        A beautiful clip and music are well chosen.

        About the Ford plant near St. Petersburg there are also clips, but not of such quality.
        They also write about the Ford plant near St. Petersburg that it’s a screwdriver,
        although of course there are used not only screwdrivers.
        Many take pride in working at Ford and their personal Fords,
        but very few are proud of the Russian automotive industry.
        Many are proud of their work on the Superjet, but are they proud of the Superjet itself? How many are proud of the situation in the Russian aviation industry?
        1. sneeze
          sneeze 14 August 2013 18: 25
          0
          Quote: sleepy
          They also write about the Ford plant near St. Petersburg that it’s a screwdriver,


          the comparison is obviously off topic, if the aircraft is developed in Russia, then it is Russian, regardless of who supplies the components. You have no doubt that the iPhone is American? And it is produced mainly in Asia. Which does not prevent the company from making huge profits and paying considerable taxes to the state treasury.

          pysy no one denies that it would be better to localize the entire filling. why not, for example, comrades collecting money for the "people's plane Tu 334" not raise money for the modernization of some component manufacturer so that he could produce competitive products? and then if the manufacturer is really good, then at least GSS, at least Embraer wants it.


          Quote: sleepy
          How many are proud of the situation in the Russian aviation industry?


          if you do something, then perhaps someday there will be a reason for pride, if you cry and write dirty articles about your competitors - hardly.
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  • Alex Nick
    Alex Nick 13 August 2013 03: 55
    0
    T-50, that's all
  • sleepy
    sleepy 13 August 2013 04: 05
    0
    Maybe the truth about the alternatives?

    "Draft Aviation Doctrine of Russia.
    The doctrine is a response to the critical state of Russian aviation and the demoralization of the professional aviation community. Aviation is not just a mode of transport; it is a backbone for the economy and a country-forming type of activity. The demographic situation and the development of Russian regions depend on whether Russia has its own aviation and aviation industry. .. "
    http://www.idmrr.ru/news/00703.html

  • sleepy
    sleepy 13 August 2013 04: 10
    +1
    Buying Boeings for Russia will reduce Russia's population by 1 million people.
    I don’t remember where I read it.
    1. V. Ushakov
      V. Ushakov 14 August 2013 07: 30
      +1
      First, remove Poghosyanovshchina from the aircraft industry. Superjetism - it will bend itself.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sleepy
    sleepy 13 August 2013 04: 18
    +1
    Words by D. Rogozin from the article.
    "- It is urgently required to return the prestige of design bureaus, those design brands that were of national and international importance ..."

    But the reality is the Leningrad College of Aviation Instrumentation
    and automation (LTAPiA) reformed.
    They drove into one building near the station. metro station "Electrosila", where in Soviet times
    They went through practical training, and then quietly covered it.
    Now there is "Office equipment - sale, production".
    Probably technical specialists and technologists for our aircraft instrumentation
    not needed, but one-way Mars ticket managers needed,
    dealers need fuel and fuel sales.
    But technologies in production are of great importance -
    it is no coincidence that the Chinese are trying to buy along with technology.
    And if you don’t have your own technologists, where do the advanced technologies come from?

    And what about foreign pilots - they are also lobbying.
    "Russian airlines will be allowed to hire foreigners to work as pilots," Lenta.ru reports with reference to Vedomosti.
    http://www.russianskyteam.ru/forums/showthread.php?t=3972

    In the meantime, is the end of the national aviation industry coming?
    http://topwar.ru/25996-otechestvennomu-aviapromu-prihodit-konec.html#comment-id-
    1034911
  • V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov 13 August 2013 06: 33
    -1
    The Poghosyan family in the Russian aviation should, at least, be expelled from there, at the most, and what is more desirable - simply destroyed. They became the biggest brake on the development of domestic aviation. Where Armenians appear, the Armenian mafia appears automatically. It's like in the States, Armenians appeared in the restaurant business - now the entire western coast of the United States is controlled by the Armenian "food mafia": whoever is not included in it will never open a diner without paying a lot of money to this mafia. Do we want an Armenian "fly mafia"? I don’t want, maybe someone wants to have a kind of Armenian mafia "filter" in Russian aviation, which must be passed in order to develop their own - aviation? And here this damned "Caucasian theme" is important and not a little important. To the devil - all the "pogosians" and "pogosyans"!
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  • sneeze
    sneeze 13 August 2013 14: 20
    +5
    Quote: sleepy
    The reasons for the defeat of the Russian Federation in last year’s two tenders for the supply of India fighter jets and attack helicopters are due to the fact that
    Russian equipment at the time of participation in the competition was not produced in series or was not in service with the Russian army


    Well, actually, the Mi-28 at the time of the loss was in service and was mass-produced. The radar station was not completely finished, but for example, afar on rafal was also not installed. The Mig-35 was not mass-produced, but the Indians themselves called other reasons for his departure. In addition, they began to buy Su-30 without mass production in Russia. It can be added that all the same, Indians are buying new Mig-29k. Where is the spread of the moment Pogosyan?
    1. sleepy
      sleepy 14 August 2013 02: 33
      +1
      Quote: Chi-puff
      "Where is Poghosyan's rotten MIG?

      The creators of the MiGs wrote an open letter to the president.
      The labor collective believes that the enterprise is on the verge of destruction.
      The team of the Engineering Center "Design Bureau named. A.I. Mikoyan "(EC),
      world-famous aviation company OJSC "RSK" MiG "
      wrote a letter to President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin
      with a request to understand the situation at the enterprise.

      According to the authors of the message,
      the company has a catastrophic situation,
      "threatening the collapse of the aviation industry."
      Employees of OKB them. A.I. Mikoyan argue that primarily problems arose from - for the fact that over the past years
      The Center is headed by people from Sukhoi and Irkut,
      which are direct competitors of the company
      .

      http://www.metronews.ru/novosti/sozdateli-migov-napisali-otkrytoe-pis-mo-prezide

      ntu / Tpokju --- nINEFRlUm5xiM /
      1. sneeze
        sneeze 14 August 2013 18: 31
        0
        Quote: sleepy
        then over the past years


        for sure. and before that, they all got hurt since the 90s

        Quote: sleepy
        threatening collapse of the aviation industry


        the entire aviation industry! = MiG