Military Review

History of creation of the LEGEND - 40 years tank T-72

70



40 years ago, 7 August 1973, the 172M object was adopted.

Start the creation process tank T-72 laid down a decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR of August 15, 1967 "On equipping the Soviet Army with new T-64 medium tanks and developing capacities for their production", in accordance with which it was planned to organize serial production of T-64 tanks not only at the Kharkov Transport Plant Engineering named after Malyshev (KhZTM), but also at other enterprises of the industry, including the Uralvagonzavod (UVZ)

T-64 was at that time a truly revolutionary machine in the field of world tank building. The development of the 430, 432 and 434 objects was not easy, and T-64A, armed with the X-NUMX-mm D-125 gun, was born. It was put into service in May 81.

The decision of the Council of Ministers of the USSR from 15 August 1967 of the year dealt with the release of the "backup" version of the T-64 tank. There was also an order from the Minister of Defense Industry on January 5 of 1968 to create a tank of a “special” period.

UVZ (G.Nizhniy Tagil) and LKZ (Leningrad), based on the technological solutions of T-64 and based on their own experience in the creation of combat vehicles, began designing advanced models.

Under the leadership of Leonid Nikolaevich Kartsev and his deputy Valery Nikolaevich Venediktov, a mobilization variant of T-64А was developed.
At the end of 1965, at the end of the year, there were already developments based on the modified T-62-based automatic loader system tested on the “167 object”, “167М object tanks (T-62 upgrade option). It was a rotating conveyor with a double-row shot arrangement, which is completely located on the electric drive under the polycom of the combat compartment.

History of creation of the LEGEND - 40 years tank T-72
167 object, T-62 perspective upgrade


As well as the new Chelyabinsk diesel engine B-45K, developing power in the 730 HP. with fan cooling system.

Basically, these changes were introduced in the created machine. Other developments on 166, 167, 167м objects were rejected by the Ministry of Defense Industry, as was the idea of ​​installing HMT (hydromechanical transmission).

The first machines were created by simple alteration of the serial T-64A. Two prototypes were prepared in 1968 year. In the same year they were tested in the Turkestan Military District. The main design flaws were running gear defects. Total up to 1970g. According to various data, it was built around 17-20 tanks involved in factory and army tests, which indicated the seriousness of the approach to this vehicle.
The machine has been assigned an 172 Object Index.

172 object




Drawings of the tank "Object 172" Archive UKBTM


EVALUATION, COMPARISON

(based on the report on the topic 70055. military unit 68054, 1970)

• -Installation of the B-172K engine and automatic loader in the 45 object provided in comparison with the 434 object:
- improvement of the crew’s combat work;
- reduction of time for maintenance and preparation of the tank to overcome water obstacles;
- the ability to operate the engine on different grades of fuel.

The remaining basic parameters of the performance characteristics remained almost the same, with the exception of the combat weight and power reserve.

• - The reliability of the 172 object within the warranty period (3000 km of mileage) is still insufficient for the following reasons:
- in the 172 facilities presented at the test sites, not all developed design measures for the B-45 engine, engine air supply system, engine cooling system connections and tank power supply system were introduced, which caused failures and faults similar to those detected during the test site in 1969;
- A number of units borrowed from the 434 object (stabilizer, range finder, hydrolift mechanism of the gun, running gear elements), as in the 434 object, did not work reliably and thus sharply reduced the overall reliability of the tank.

• - Combat weight of tanks 172 object (tank №4 - 38650 kg; tank №5 - 38890 kg; tank №6 -38900 kg) exceeds the combat weight of the tank 434 object (equal in TTT 37,0т -1,5%) on 2,9 - 3,6 maximum difference 1350 kg - approx. A.X.).

• -The acceleration of the 172 object proceeds more intensively than the acceleration of the 434 object (when operating on diesel fuel).

• -Target rate of fire from tanks 172 object and 434 object received almost the same. The time to shoot all ammunition at the 172 site is 23 minutes, at the 434 facility - 27 minutes.

• -Automatic loader on the 172 object has a number of significant advantages over the 434 object loader mechanism. The design of the automatic loader ensures the transfer of crew members from the control section to the combat one and back without preparatory work, loading the gun manually from all non-mechanized layouts both on site and in the tank movement, as well as replenishing the AZ conveyor with shots without turning the tower to the stern and without driver assistance.

• Angle of loading a cannon in a tank with an 172 object 2 ° greater than that of a tank with an 434 object, which reduces the likelihood of sticking the barrel during loading when the tank moves over rough terrain.

• -The largest number of failures and malfunctions falls on the chassis: 29,9% failures and 53% failures.

• -The tank downtime for servicing as a result of tests and the laboriousness of maintenance when performing work by the crew’s crew are shown in the table and the 434 object compared to the 68054 inventory number 3793 for 1969 G is compared with the tank idleness:

In parentheses indicate the time and complexity of TO with flushing the air cleaner


The data in the table shows that the 172 object presented for testing on all types of services is less than the 434 tank idle time, which is explained by the simpler and more convenient design of the loading mechanism, the maintenance of which takes 40-45 min, and on the 434 object - 5 -7 hours, and also some improvement in access to serviced units and nodes.

• -In / part 68054 considers expedient to speed up the revision of the power plant, weapon stabilizer, power supply system, as well as the radical processing of the undercarriage, hydrolic gun mechanism, collective protection system, with simultaneous continuation of testing of three prototypes of the 172 object in the 68054 unit the study of individual units and systems, and conducting test ground tests after the introduction of all constructive measures for proposals in / h 68054.


Work with tanks "object 172" lasted until the beginning of February 1971. By this time, the components and assemblies developed in Nizhny Tagil were brought to a high level of reliability. Automatic loaders had one failure on 448 loading loops, that is, their reliability roughly corresponded to the average survivability of the X-NUMX-mm D-125-gun (81 shots with a caliber projectile and 600-sabot). The only problem with the “150 object” was the unreliability of the undercarriage “due to the systematic failure of hydraulic shock absorbers, road wheels, fingers and tracks, torsions and guide wheels.”

12 May 1970 was issued by the Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 326-113 “On the work to further improve the tank“ Object 172 ”. This document paved the way for the work to improve the machine and to introduce to it the undercarriage of waste tested on prototypes of the “167 Object”.

Then, at the UVZB design bureau, which from 7 in January 1970 was headed by Valery Nikolaevich Venediktov, it was decided to use on the "172 object" the chassis from the "167 object" with rubberized support rollers of increased diameter and more powerful tracks with an open metal hinge similar to those of the T-tank 62. The development of such a tank was carried out under the designation "object 172M" and by the end of the year three such tanks were built. The engine, forced to 780 hp, received the index B-46. A two-stage cassette air cleaning system was introduced, similar to that used on the T-62 tank. The mass of the “172M object” has increased to 41 tons. But the dynamic characteristics remained at the same level due to an increase in engine power per 80 hp, fuel tank capacity per 100 l and track width per 40 mm. From the T-64A tank, only the positively proven structural elements of the armored hull with a combined and differentiated armor and transmission were retained.

Comparing "172 Object" and "172 Object"


From November 1970 to April 1971, the tanks "172M object" went through a full cycle of factory tests and then on May 6, 1971 were presented to Defense Ministers A.A. Grechko and defense industry S.A. Zverev. By the beginning of the summer, an installation batch of 15 machines had been released, which, together with the T-64A and T-80 tanks, had passed months-long trials in 1972.

Excerpt from the test:


Three factory models of the 172 object (with a new chassis and a B-46 engine with 780 power.) From November 1970. To April 1971. Passed intensive tests in different climatic conditions (Nizhny Tagil region, ZabVO, military unit 6054) in order to verify the reliability of the components and mechanisms of the tank.

Tests of these samples in the volume of 10000 + 13004 km (the engines worked 414 + 685,7 hours) showed the effectiveness of the modifications introduced during the tests, reliable operation of the chassis components, engine and its systems, power transmission and automatic loader, which allowed 2 1971 g in the quarter Present 172 samples for field testing.

Field tests of 172m tanks in various operating conditions (BVO, MVO, and TurkVO) in the amount of 8458 + 11662 km (engines have built up 393,7 + 510,7 hours), also showed reliable operation of the B-45 engine (? Typo, ass. Author), power transmission, chassis taka as a whole.

According to the comments identified during field tests and, in particular, when testing in high-altitude ZakVO conditions, the plant has been introduced, as well as being developed, which will be implemented in the process of preparing the serial production of the 172 object conducted by the plant in accordance with the Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the USSR Council of Ministers No.326-113 from 12 May 1970g.

The “Object 172m” tank No.1 passed the 1 test phase in accordance with the program agreed with the VP #47, from 26.11 to 06.1270. The tests were carried out at the tankodrome of the plant along an annular heavily intersected track with frozen ground, with frequent potholes and bumps. Sea trials were carried out intensively with an operating time of 19,8 hours per day and a length of daily crossings of up to 418 km at the maximum speeds possible for given road conditions. During the first stage of the test, the tank passed 3000 km, the engine worked for 154 hours. The tests showed the following results:

- the B-46 engine worked reliably, its parameters were within the limits of the technical specifications and remained almost unchanged;
- power transmission units worked reliably.

After the maintenance No. 2 and the elimination of the comments, the tank “Object 172” No. 1 was subjected to the 2-m, 3-m and 4-m (additional) test stages.
Before the start of 2-testing phase it has been established by experienced 613.44.22sb caterpillar tracks, driving wheels 175.54sb-1 with rims for trucks caterpillar tracks 613.44.22sb welded brackets 175.01.148-1 mounting support rollers of spets.stali and bolts supporting rollers with thread M30h2, and before The 4 stage (after km 10004) is a modified fan drive. The sea trials of the 3 and 4 stages were carried out with 09.12.1970 g. By 16.04.1971 g at the tank factory of the plant under the same conditions as at the 1 stage.

Over the entire test period, the tank passed the 13004 km, the engine worked for 685,7 hours, the 1027 of the gun was loaded with an automatic loader, including 170 shots. As a result of the tests revealed:
- The engine and its systems worked reliably. In the process of testing took place
A) slight oil leaks through the seals of the head covers;
B) a slight emission of oil vapors through the engine breather;
C) the formation of cracks on the left exhaust manifold (441,9 hour worked.);
D) due to the destruction of the cooling system fan drive on the 451,2 hour, the engine was overheated, therefore, the sealing bands of the water channels and duralumin gaskets in the connector of the block heads were replaced.

- Guitar and gearboxes with onboard gears worked reliably and had no comments. The angular reducer of the fan drive worked unreliably due to the destruction of the toothed driven unit of the bevel gear reducer of the fan drive and the friction clutch of the fan, caused by a significant centering of the drive. 1 installed after 10004 km a modified drive that allows increased centerings, during tests over the length of 3000 km with obviously exposed centerings, had no remarks and remained in working condition.

- chassis nodes showed the following results:
A) the destruction of torsions occurred due to the contamination of steel with non-metallic inclusions and the failure of the technology; after the 7053 km, the torsions made of steel of electroslag remelting had no comments to the end of the test;
B) the destruction of the balancer bushings was caused by their insufficient strength, the reinforced bushings installed after 7053 km did not have any remarks and remained in working condition;
B) during testing, the seal design was tested on the hydraulic shock connector, the working fluid and working pressure in the hydraulic shock absorber were selected, tested at a distance of 3000 km (installed after 10004 km) hydraulic shock absorbers with a modified design of the body seal, partitions and covers, as well as a modified finger lock in the joint thrust with a hydraulic shock absorber lever, had no comments;
D) in the course of testing there were cases of loss of tire locking rings and destruction of locking wheels of hubs of supporting rollers, modified rings introduced after 368 km ensured that tests were carried out in a given volume;
D) the support rollers of the sixth suspension after 7971 km were replaced because of the destruction of the rubber arrays, the remaining support rollers were tested until the end of the test, after changing the exhibition of torsions in twist angle, the newly installed front and rear suspension rollers worked at the 5033 km distance without destroying the rubber array;
E) 613.44.22 tracked tape (without technological and design improvements) ensured performance up to 3972 km, the 166.44 trailer tape 1 with open hinge worked 3000 km and remained suitable for further use;
G) the disks of the sloths and the hubs of the driving wheels had cracks along the edges, and later on the subsequent samples were installed with a modified structure.
- the automatic loader in the amount of 1027 charges, including 170 shots, had 4 failure and 2 delays.
- TPD-2 sight and 2EXNNX stabilizer worked 28 hours and had no comments.
According to the comments identified during the testing of the “Object 172” No. XXUMX, the plant developed design measures that were implemented on the factory samples No. XXUMX and No. XXUMX before testing or during testing as it was developed.
The “Object 172” tests No. XXNX and No. No. were carried out in the period from 2 to 14.01. three stages in the volumes 17.04.1971 km - 3000 stage, 1 km - 4000 stage, 2 km - 3000 stage in accordance with the program agreed with the VP # 3.

The 1 test phase was conducted at the tankodrome of the plant during the period from 14.01 to 29.01.1971. along the same route and under the same conditions as tests of control test samples No. XXUMX and No. XXUMX "Object 8" were conducted.
The 2 test phase was conducted at ZabVO (Art. Mirna) in the period from 16.02 to 26.02.1971.
The 3 test phase was conducted at the tankodrome of the plant from 30.03 to 17.04.1971.

The purpose of the tests was to check the reliability and performance of the units and components of the chassis, the engine and transmission compartment systems of the tank as a whole, as well as the effectiveness of the design activities carried out.

The following constructive measures were introduced at the “172 Object” No. XXUMX and No. XXUMX:
A. Before testing:
1. Reinforced drive wheels 175.54-2;
2.Torsion shafts made of steel 45ХНМфа-Ш;
3. Supporting rollers 175.53sb-1 with a modified tire stopper on the hub, filled with TSNATH-203 lubricant;
4. Reinforced balancing bushings;
5. Hydraulic shock absorbers with improved locking 175.52.012, filled with oil MSZP-5;
6. Sloths with enhanced drives.
B. Before the 2 test phase:
1. Tracked belts 613.44.22.
- on the tank №2 - with technological improvements;
- on tank No.3 - with reinforced cross tracks of tracks (from 8mm to 10mm - in thickness and from 16mm to 20mm - in height).
B. Before the 3 test phase:
1. Changed the exhibition of torsion shafts at a twist angle to unload the first and sixth road wheels;
2. Cast disks of the directing wheels from special steel with the strengthened edges;
3.Series (tank T-62) steel filler for guide wheels - for tank №3;
4.In connection with the modified exhibition of torsions, new track rollers were installed in the first and sixth suspensions.
In the process of testing for the three stages of the tanks passed:
- tank №2 - 10000km;
-tank №3 - 10012km;
The engines have worked respectively 419,1 and 414 hours.

The tests were carried out intensively with the operating time per day before 20,7 hours and the length of daily transitions up to 732 km. The sea trials in the volume of 10000 km were completed in 31 calendar day (9-11 days per stage). The average speeds during tests at the tankodrome of the plant were 20,8 km / h, and when tested in ZabVO - 40,3 km / h.

During the tests, the modified nodes and mechanisms worked reliably, confirmed the effectiveness of design and technological measures and ensured the implementation of the program in the amount of 10000 km.

In the future, the day of use of the engine life up to 500 hours, as well as verification of pilot events, tank No. 3 in accordance with the joint decision of the organization of the PO Box B-2968 and the 52682 military unit from 08.05.1971. continued testing on the track of the 68054 military unit, and tank No. 2, based on the letter 562 / 3 / 005085 from 16.04.1971 of the 52682 military unit, in TurkVO (Keliaty training center). Taking into account additional tests, tank No.2 passed 13686 km, and tank No.3, 11388 km, the engines worked for 572 and 536 hours, respectively. Tanks are in working condition.

The 172 Objects No. 1, No. XXUMX and No. XXUMX conducted in different climatic and geographical conditions showed high dynamic and maneuverable qualities and operational technical characteristics, sufficient reliability of the units, components, mechanisms and systems of the engine-transmission compartment, running gear and control within 2 + 3 km.

The engines of these tanks reliably worked out 697,7 (tank No.1), 572 (tank No.2) and 536 (tank No.3) hours. The automatic loader in a modified form on the control samples of the “172 Object” No. 8 and No. 9 showed the same high reliability - 448 loading on one failure. The resulting degree of refinement of components, mechanisms, units of the engine compartment, chassis and automatic loader, along with the modifications made by co-executors for armament and TPD-2, allowed to submit samples for landfill tests.

The tests of ground objects “Object 172м” in different climatic conditions (BVO, TurkVO, MVO) confirmed a high degree of constructive development of “Objects 172”, with 8458 + 11662 km operating time, 393,7 + 510,7 hours engines and automatic loader 619 + 2000 gun loads.

The engine, guitar, gearboxes and other components and powertrain mechanisms showed reliable operation within the limits of the groundwork performed by the tanks.
The flow of water from the X-NUMX Object No. 172 engine from the nipping space of the fifth sleeve of the right-hand unit was caused by a manufacturing defect — one of the three rubber rings of the lower sleeve belt was not installed during assembly. After installing the rubber ring, the engine ensured that the tank carried out the program in a given volume.

The automatic loader showed reliable operation within 377 + 539 charges for one failure.
Ukhzly running gear showed the following performance:
1.Torsion shafts - 8458 + 11662 km.
2. Balances - 8458 + 11662 km.
3.The steering wheels - 6000 km.
4. Tracked belts - 5000 + 8096 km.
5. Driving wheels - 8458 + 11662 km.
6.The crown of the drive wheels - 5000 + 10004 km.
7. Shock absorbers - 8458 km.
8.Support rollers - 5890 km (modified design in TurkVO).
9. Basic skating rinks - 4237 + 11662 km.

According to the comments and defects identified in the process of testing ground samples, the plant promptly carried out constructive refinements, the effectiveness of which was checked by tests in the same conditions. The support rollers that worked unreliably at the 1 test stage in the TurkVO were refined and tested at the 172 Facility No. XXUMX during the 7 test phase under the same conditions.

The supporting rollers worked 5890 km (up to the operating time of the 10004 km tank) and remained in a healthy state. At the 2 th stage of testing the “Object 172” No. 7 in TurkVO, the effectiveness of a new exhibition of road wheels with a modified twist of torsions was also tested. The road wheels worked 6387 km and remained in working condition, except for the 4-th left, which was replaced after the mileage due to the destruction of the rubber array. For a number of comments, constructive refinements are being carried out, measures for which will be introduced in the process of further production of the “172m Object”.

After the end of the test, the "Report on the results of military tests of 15-ti 172M tanks manufactured by Uralvagonzavod in 1972 g."
In its final part it was said:
"1. The tanks have passed the test, but the life of the 4500-5000 km track is insufficient and does not provide the required drivability of the 6500-7000 km tank without replacing tracks.
2. The tank 172М (warranty period - 3000 km) and the B-46 engine - (350 m / h) worked reliably. In the course of further testing up to 10000-11000 km, most components and assemblies, including the B-46 engine, worked reliably, however, a number of serious components and assemblies showed insufficient resources and reliability.
3. The tank is recommended for acceptance into service and mass production, subject to the elimination of identified deficiencies and verification of the effectiveness of their elimination prior to mass production. The scope and timing of improvements and inspections should be agreed between the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Defense Industry. "

Experienced tank "object 172" 1971 g.


In the first half of 1973, another successful control test of the installation batch of xNUMXM passed. During this period, the deficiencies identified in the previous ones were eliminated. This gave every reason to adopt the tank.

By the Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 554-172 of 7 in August 1973, the “172М object” was adopted by the Soviet Army under the name T-72 "Ural" (name in 1975 year). The relevant order of the Minister of Defense of the USSR saw the light of 13 August 1973 of the year. In the same year, an installation batch of 30 machines was released.

Serial production of the machine was started in 1974 year. During this year, Uralvagonzavod launched 220 T-72 tanks.

For machine critics: If you carefully analyze history the creation of the T-72 then it becomes clear that the plant and the designers created what the Ministry of Defense wanted with the existing capabilities of the defense industry to produce a mass tank, and not what the designers themselves would like.

The fantasies of the design bureau always remain in the background, first of all, the machine is built according to the tactical and technical requirements and requirements of the customer, which was strictly done. Those. "Cigarette lighter" is where the customer wants, and not where it will be convenient for him to use it.

Drawing of the tank "Object 172"


MODIFICATIONS


• Object 172М of experimental and military series - the tower was made by converting the turret of the T-64A tank
• T-72K (Object 172МК) "Ural-K" - commander version of the linear tank T-72 (ob.172М), which was additionally installed shortwave radio, navigation equipment, charger, but reduced ammunition
• T-72 (Object 172M) sample 1975 of the year
• T-72 (Object 172M) sample 1976 of the year
• T-72 (Object 172M) sample 1978 of the year
• T-72 (Object 172M) sample 1979 of the year
• T-72 (Object 172M-E) - export version
• T-72 (Object 172М-Э1) - export version
• T-72 (Object 172М-Э2) - export version
• T-72K (Object 172MK-E) - export modification of the commander version and the linear tank
• T-72K (Object 172МК-Э1) - export modification of the command version of the a line tank
• T-72K (Object 172МК-Э2) - export modification of the command version of the a line tank

• Object 172МН - prototype tank T-72 (ob.172М), on which the 130 mm rifled gun 2А50 (LP-36Е) was installed. Passed the tests in 1972-1974. In mid-October, 1975 was demonstrated to Marshal A. Grechko. during his visit to the Research Institute in Kubinka. Not accepted for service
• 172MD object - prototype tank T-72 (rev.172М) with 125 mm smoothbore gun 2А49 (D-89). Not accepted for service
• Object 172MP - prototype tank T-72 (ob.172М) with 125 mm smooth-bore gun 2А46М. Made in May-July 1977 of the year in order to conduct an acceptance test of the system. According to the results of these tests, the gun 2А46М was recognized as conforming to the specified tactical and technical requirements and recommended for further tests.
• The 175 object is the result of the work carried out on 1970-75 in improving the 172М. Not accepted for service, the prototype was not made. Separate developments on the machine of this specification, as well as on ob.172-2М were used in improving the design of serial machines ob.172М (Т-72)

T-72 first modifications


Afterword


And this was only the beginning of the glorious path of the legendary car. In order to tell about the stages of its further modernization, we need a series of articles, with a story about line-up and equipment, further upgrades, where a special place will be occupied by the “184 Object”, which entered service under the designation T-72B, at which the author of these lines had the honor of serving a large part of your life.

And the modifications of the first issues of the T-72 with simplified unclassified armor, an ancient optical range finder, a mechanical ballistic computer, an analog radio station R-123 and a B-46 engine fought in the Middle East, where the Syrians kissed them, in Iraq, where the Abrams escaped, not daring go on a battle without a fire shaft aviation and artillery. They are fighting now in Syria, if you take a closer look, then on the video chronicle of using Syrian cars you can see the elongated hump in front of the turret of the tank commander, this is an element of the optical range finder. If the optics are muffled, then the quantum equipment was installed later, but this is the same “old man”.

In this article, I did not specifically describe all the squabbles of the three design bureaus among themselves, especially between Kharkiv and Tagil, personal agreements with the highest echelons of power and lobbying the designers of their offspring.

Why write about this? Authors of unique cars competed for their inventions not for money and power, but for an IDEA. With all their heart they rooted for the Great Matter - the creation of the most powerful armored fist of their country.

HONOR OF THEM AND PLEASURE

This article is just about the history of the creation of the machine, which became the workhorse of tank units.

I hope the discussion will not be familiar comparing schools tank design, which rarely lead tankers themselves.

For us, the crews, after a long and hard work, there is no sweeter music than the RIGHT crash or whistle, the roar or the howling of the systems we include.

There is no better feeling when YOUR “iron” consistently “sings” its song under the influence of your arms or legs. And no matter what model of tank you are currently in.

In this “symphony” - you FEEL THE MAN, one cast organism with a multi-ton beast. So the consent of the crew with the equipment is born and they are inseparable.

And a “live” tank is born. He is UNBEATABLE.

T-72 is worthy of respect. He still protects his country with dignity on his tracks and his armor.

[i] Prepared Aleks TV [/ i


On the materials of the sites:
http://otvaga2004.ru
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru
http://pro-tank.ru
http://btvt.narod.ru
70 comments
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  1. Mikhado
    Mikhado 12 August 2013 08: 49 New
    +2
    Heir 34-ki - nothing more to say. Years put everything in its place, and before the advent of fundamentally new vehicles, tanks of this line - the basis of Russian armored power.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 August 2013 11: 02 New
      +6
      Thanks to the author. 40 years is a man’s heyday, and the T-72 tank is undoubtedly a man. Good luck
  2. avt
    avt 12 August 2013 08: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: Mikhado
    Heir 34-ki - nothing more to say

    How nothing? And that ,, Oplot "is the best ?? laughing T-70 tank for centuries! Workhorse and unsurpassed in skillful hands. good Still serve.
    1. Michael_59
      Michael_59 12 August 2013 09: 19 New
      +1
      So this is a very competent phrase, because it is very capacious in meaning - "heir to 34 matches" ...
      This is both a compliment and criticism at the same time.
      The advantages of the legendary tank are known, the T-70 is good as a qualitatively new level of their evolutionary development.
      The flaws of the concept are just as obvious and evolution has not saved the car from them.
      Will serve? Yes of course. But this is also the "+" and "-".
      1. sq
        sq 12 August 2013 10: 11 New
        +1
        Name any product without flaws.
    2. Aleks tv
      12 August 2013 10: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: avt
      T-70 tank for centuries! Workhorse and unsurpassed in skillful hands.

      Absolutely and completely agree - a workhorse in skilled hands.
      That is probably still the T-72 ...
      wink
      1. avt
        avt 12 August 2013 10: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: Aleks tv
        That is probably still the T-72 ...

        Exactly, I hit the wrong button, of course, the T-72. smile
  3. kind
    kind 12 August 2013 09: 15 New
    +3
    Good car T-72! Nothing more to add.
  4. cyberandr
    cyberandr 12 August 2013 11: 17 New
    +1
    Out of curiosity. If the T-72 is a reserve vehicle, and the T-80 is more say elite, then why did they prefer the T-72? I understand the T-64 is now a Ukrainian foreign car, but the T-80 is originally from Leningrad.
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 12 August 2013 11: 33 New
      0
      The t-64 has many flaws. The T-72 is simpler and cheaper to manufacture than the T-80.
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 12 August 2013 11: 38 New
      +3
      Quote: cyberandr
      If the T-72 is a reserve vehicle, and the T-80 is more say "elite", then why was the T-72 preferred?

      80-ka - a good tank, but it eats, infection, so much that only have time to fill. And in the field is difficult to repair. And the T-72 is a really sensible tank in every way. He almost always "forgives" the mistakes of the stupid crew, is reliable and easy to operate.
      Happy Birthday, native iron!
    3. Drummer
      Drummer 12 August 2013 11: 42 New
      +1
      In the T-80UD (especially the T-84), there was almost nothing left of the T-80 except the chassis, in fact, this is a new tank.
    4. Aleks tv
      12 August 2013 12: 43 New
      +5
      Quote: cyberandr
      Out of curiosity If the T-72 is a reserve car,

      Not certainly in that way.
      “Reserve tank” and “special time machine” are expressions of the technique of war.
      Those. T-72 was created as a variant of a mass tank in the event of hostilities. Hence the requirement for reliability. A simpler electronic filling was also installed for these reasons, i.e. put the equipment that could be mass produced in conditions of lack of war.
      A complex sighting system T-64 was migrated to the T-80, where it was modernized. .

      But the fact that they put on the T-72 was not bad.
      I’ll supplement the article on the gunner’s “stuffing” a little, otherwise I wrote about the creation:

      From the night TPN-1-49 (TPN-3-49) there was practically no sense in the tradition. But the main sight TPD-K1 was simple and reliable, there are no problems that are said about the "abrashka".
      The key is the promotion of the "drive", the key is "stable", funny "Delta D", plus two keys to enable the rangefinder. That's all that the gunner needed to know first (still the lever for opening the mirror when stabilizing on the left side of the hull).
      At the bottom is a Cheburashka remote. Under the thumbs are the buttons for firing a gun and a machine gun, under the index buttons for measuring and resetting the range with a quantum beam.
      Then there were modernizations, up to the issuance of data of the angular corrections of the target movement.

      You can see the ring above the “cheburashka” in the figure, this is just the former control of the optical range finder, it worked to combine two pictures into one, figure out how “fun” it was to twist it in a combat situation before the introduction of the laser range finder.

      Happy Birthday, Native IRON!
    5. uwzek
      uwzek 12 August 2013 17: 05 New
      +3
      Preference T-72 gave life. When they adopted the T-64, it quickly became clear that the Kharkov plant would not be able to produce many cars, and that it would not be possible to launch production of new tanks at other plants due to lack of engines. Therefore, Tagil was instructed to produce T-64 tanks with a B-45 diesel engine, the stocks of which were large in the warehouses of the NZ (hence the “reserve tank”, “mobilization tank”).
      From the article you see that the task was completed "not completely" ... The engine had to be changed very quickly to the next modification, to fundamentally refine the design of the machine. But, in the end, while Kharkov treated the problems of the T-64 power plant (they were also present in vehicles with a gas turbine engine), in Tagil they brought to mind the tank, which became the most massive tank of our time ...
  5. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 12 August 2013 13: 23 New
    +2
    Happy Birthday Armor! ..
  6. alone
    alone 12 August 2013 14: 36 New
    +3
    The T-72 is undoubtedly one of the best tanks of its time. And let's not blacken this tank. Do not forget the human factor in evaluating any equipment. In the hands of failures, any tank, whatever it was, will turn into a bucket
  7. sergey72
    sergey72 12 August 2013 14: 49 New
    +2
    "The authors of unique machines fought for their inventions not for money and power, but for an IDEA." - you can’t say better, but the article is excellent, it will be necessary to save it in the archive +++++
  8. Tex
    Tex 12 August 2013 15: 24 New
    +2
    Hello everyone, I first agree with the author of the article on the inadmissibility of comparing the three schools, according to the comments it can be seen that people know what they are writing about, and it’s upsetting that after the T-64 it is a stem tank in the family tree of owls. there is no continuation of armor, t-80 (84) t-72 (90) are branches ((
    1. avt
      avt 12 August 2013 15: 49 New
      +6
      Quote: Teks
      but it’s upsetting that after the T-64, which is a stem tank in the family tree of owls. there is no continuation of armor,

      request Well, firstly, it was still our breakthrough in WORLD tank construction. Hence, in addition to the advantages, certain design flaws. The T-72 was already made with a certain backlog, as well as the T-80, it is always easier to do better, starting from the analogue, which does not detract from the work of the Ural designers and personally L.N. Kartsev. Well, and secondly - these are tanks of the USSR, imperial vehicles. Not everyone in a world can afford such a thing, just a few countries. request What do you want from today's Ukraine!? At least some Soviet groundwork remained, to demand more - it’s the same as if Yanukovych was now in Nikolaev with an aircraft carrier, according to the old Soviet memory, laid down. laughing
      1. Tex
        Tex 12 August 2013 16: 13 New
        +1
        I meant not only Ukraine)),
        1. avt
          avt 12 August 2013 16: 40 New
          +1
          request And how are you going to cooperate in the current geopolitical conditions, and even restore in such a specific production ??? I honestly don’t imagine how in the short term you can resolve the legacy of 91 years.
          1. Tex
            Tex 12 August 2013 17: 46 New
            +3
            it is precisely these conditions that will make it possible to unite not only efforts but also countries, the weaker Russia the more drooling salvation of its well-known neighbors on its resources, God forbid, make a mistake to me, but until the Slavs begin to beat from the outside, they will not stop barking at each other.
    2. Aleks tv
      12 August 2013 15: 50 New
      +4
      Quote: Teks
      on the inadmissibility of comparing three schools

      THREE KB in ONE "school", one system - this is powerful. Moreover, they were allowed to compete and take the achievements of rivals.
      Such an unthinkable “cooperation-competition” (capitalism and communism in one person) has not been a single state.
      About the T-64: Morozov had a terrific idea - the striking power and powerful armor of a heavy tank placed on the basis of a medium-class machine, he did it, but this really revolutionary project was new, it was a kind of prototype and developed (by and large ), only in "children."
      Although, Bulat and Oplot, after all, are a continuation of the T-64.

      Oh, to join forces as before ... but this is a fairy tale.
      Everyone now thinks only about dough, nafik them tanks. Tanks are now for them exactly the means of earning this very dough ...
      Eheh.
      But cooperation is a must. Nobody needs us except ourselves.
  9. Tex
    Tex 12 August 2013 15: 34 New
    +2
    Quote: cyberandr
    Out of curiosity. If the T-72 is a reserve vehicle, and the T-80 is more say elite, then why did they prefer the T-72? I understand the T-64 is now a Ukrainian foreign car, but the T-80 is originally from Leningrad.

    at the end of the eighties, in the territory of Poland and the GDR, both the 72s and 80s were in service, but the latter were considered breakthrough tanks, in spite of the voracity of the 80s voiced above, it has many advantages, and low noise is not the last (unless of course it is approaching from the front, but not being removed).
    1. Aleks tv
      12 August 2013 16: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Teks
      in the late eighties in the territory of Poland and the GDR, both the 72 and 80 were in service, but the latter were considered breakthrough tanks,

      Yes, the T-80 breakthrough tank. Tank "English Channel". They were supposed to go to the English Channel before the approach of the Amers. The price of kerosene in such a strategic issue did not matter.
      Speed ​​- prohibitive, until the connection of gusli with the ground is lost.

      The T-80 is really almost inaudible when it comes at you: the inner lining with rubber tracks, a rubberized roller, a rubber-metal joint in the complex did not give a clang of metal.
      Movement was heard only when he turned the stern - a characteristic airfield whistle.
      A very respected machine, especially when heating cascades in freezing air, you don’t need to climb between the rear rollers with a “pipe” and “stoke” the engine, like on diesels, stiffen in the classic “diesel drum”.
      Electronics is also up to the mark, he himself considers the same amendments.
      1. Tex
        Tex 12 August 2013 16: 38 New
        +1
        I also think the 80th is the best owl. a tank, although not without chronic shortcomings such as crew comfort, when after a march it’s just the right time to call a chiropractor, and what if you immediately go into battle? after all, no one considered the percentage of losses from crew fatigue, but in vain.
  10. Tex
    Tex 12 August 2013 16: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: Aleks tv
    Quote: Teks
    on the inadmissibility of comparing three schools

    THREE KB in ONE "school", one system - this is powerful. Moreover, they were allowed to compete and take the achievements of rivals.
    Such an unthinkable “cooperation-competition” (capitalism and communism in one person) has not been a single state.
    About the T-64: Morozov had a terrific idea - the striking power and powerful armor of a heavy tank placed on the basis of a medium-class machine, he did it, but this really revolutionary project was new, it was a kind of prototype and developed (by and large ), only in "children."
    Although, Bulat and Oplot, after all, are a continuation of the T-64.

    Oh, to join forces as before ... but this is a fairy tale.
    Everyone now thinks only about dough, nafik them tanks. Tanks are now for them exactly the means of earning this very dough ...
    Eheh.
    But cooperation is a must. Nobody needs us except ourselves.

    this is yes, especially since the failure to work on new cars at the age of 20 is serious, now the leading countries are getting closer to the idea of ​​drones, the problem is only in a reliable communication system with the object, and ours and yours have rested in armata and strongholds, although this is progress but ...
    1. Rider
      Rider 12 August 2013 18: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Teks
      leading countries are now closer to the idea of ​​drones


      unmanned tank, this is still from the category of fiction.
      if the UAV loses control from the ground, the return to base function is triggered. but in the air there are no ravines, buildings. trees, etc., which will have to face the ground unit.
      and most importantly, the machine cannot decide on its own. and in the event of a loss of communication ceases to be useful as a combat unit.

      however, an option with external control at close range is possible.
      progress, his mother, does not stand still.
      1. Tex
        Tex 12 August 2013 21: 52 New
        +1
        For the first time, experiments with a radio-controlled tank were carried out in the union even before the war, I don’t remember the model, but in my opinion even before the BT series, in the eighties, such work was also carried out, and not without incidents)), but at the expense of losing control, it’s not going to rattle , will be repaired, plus an entire army of tankers trained by the World of Tanks))))))))))
  11. Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 12 August 2013 17: 16 New
    +1
    American fascism is breaking its teeth now in Syria, largely due to the T-72 tank. Heavy and clumsy Abrams, Merkavs and leopards would have burned torches long in the cramped streets of Syrian cities. About the high cost of their combat work and maintenance, I’m not even talking.
    1. Tex
      Tex 12 August 2013 17: 37 New
      +2
      an interesting moment, the merkava is the most adapted tank for battle in the city, place a couple of snipers and a machine gunner in its airborne squad (by the way, not one tank has a carrot), landing at the right time for escort, and the tank and infantry are integrated into a single information battlefield and get an excellent result
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 12 August 2013 22: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Teks
        an interesting moment, the merkava is the most adapted tank for battle in the city, place a couple of snipers and a machine gunner in its airborne squad (by the way, not one tank has a carrot), landing at the right time for escort, and the tank and infantry are integrated into a single information battlefield and get an excellent result

        To plant someone you need to unload part of the ammunition, nothing is given for nothing.
        1. Tex
          Tex 12 August 2013 22: 39 New
          0
          merkava the only tank with the layout of the BMP in principle, there des. Dep. laid constructively, can be used to evacuate the wounded from the battlefield, rest hp, etc.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 12 August 2013 22: 52 New
            0
            Quote: Teks
            merkava the only tank with the layout of the BMP in principle, there des. Dep. laid constructively, can be used to evacuate the wounded from the battlefield, rest hp, etc.

            These are your dreams, there is no BMP. You at least ask how much of this "landing" squad.
            1. Tex
              Tex 12 August 2013 23: 18 New
              0
              Description of construction
              A characteristic feature of the tank is the layout with the location of the engine compartment in the front of the hull. This design solution provides additional protection for the crew. In addition, a significant reserve amount of the stern of the machine body is released. A unique feature of the Merkava tanks is the presence in the stern of a compartment used for transporting troops or wounded (additional ammunition can also be placed in the compartment). This feature turns the "Merkava", in fact, into a universal combat vehicle, capable of performing, depending on the combat situation, the tactical role of the tank, armored personnel carrier, and infantry fighting vehicle. The compartment has an armored door in the stern, allowing the crew in critical situations to leave the tank from behind.
              This is from Wikipedia, but from myself, I have something to dream about, some cars I saw live, there is nothing to compare.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 13 August 2013 12: 35 New
                0
                Quote: Teks
                this feature turns the Merkava, in fact, into a universal combat vehicle capable of performing, depending on the combat situation, the tactical role of a tank, armored personnel carrier, and infantry fighting vehicle.

                Moreover, it is necessary to clarify that where you want to land the shells there are shells, that is, only when you shoot shells from the aft niche you can put two or three people there, or initially go into battle with an incomplete ammunition. But even so, to drive a 70-ton machine as an armored personnel carrier and (or) infantry fighting vehicle, moreover, transporting 3 paratroopers at a time, so that an army needs to attack 20000 merkas? Insanity on the march.
                Quote: Teks
                A characteristic feature of the tank is the layout with the location of the engine compartment in the front of the hull. This design solution provides additional protection for the crew. In addition, a significant reserve amount of the stern of the machine body is released.

                This is a quote from WIKI, an open fraud. No volume is released, the engine has nowhere to go, it remains in the body, only in the front of it, and not in the back and occupies the volume laid to it.
                Quote: Teks
                The compartment has an armored door in the stern, allowing the crew in critical situations to leave the tank from behind.

                Escaping during a battle is what a tanker can do with a back door, and really a tank for Judah.
      2. alone
        alone 12 August 2013 22: 52 New
        0
        you don’t take into account only one detail. The IDF doesn’t let tanks into the city as Pavel Grachev let them in. Before they appear in the blocks, the Israelis let in assault groups with bulldozers. And while the bulldozers iron the blocks, the tanks provide them with fire.
        Merkava appears when there is no one to shoot.
        1. Tex
          Tex 12 August 2013 23: 21 New
          0
          I meant the theory of the use of the machine in urban conditions and not at all the time the action of the Tsakhal.
  12. Donvel
    Donvel 12 August 2013 21: 16 New
    -4
    The largest tank in Russia is 40 years old. We pat the domestic defense industry and officials.
    1. Tex
      Tex 12 August 2013 22: 02 New
      0
      Duck and Abramsu no less, but the cunning Yankees laid colossal modernism. Potential, while creating not just a machine, but with it a whole complex of enterprises and auxiliary equipment that allows it to be maintained at a high level of combat effectiveness. This cannot be taken away from them, grandmas can count .
      1. Donvel
        Donvel 12 August 2013 23: 02 New
        0
        There will be less for Abrams; he has been released since 1980, if I am not mistaken. The Yankees can not only count money, but also fight. They are constantly fighting with someone. The T-72 has a huge modification reserve, but already, consider it, it has been worked out. Abrams, whatever one may say, looks better in this regard.
        1. Aleks tv
          12 August 2013 23: 31 New
          0
          Quote: DonVel
          The T-72 has a huge modification reserve, but already, consider it, it has been worked out.

          T-90ms has shown that the T-72 reserve has not yet been selected.
          If there is any hitch with Armata, the MS will replace it with dignity in the confrontation with modern modifications of abrashek, there is ALL that is needed.
          The wish will only be to improve the power of ammunition, but here a problem is really possible due to the size of the AZ conveyor.

          And so - everything is up to standard. The old T-72 is still in the "topic" as a serious rival for a long time with proper modernization. Armata will not be delivered en masse in one day.
          1. Donvel
            Donvel 13 August 2013 00: 45 New
            +1
            T-90MS are unlikely to be purchased if Armata fails. Something tells me. At least the command understands that something fundamentally new is needed. And, by the way, the "abrashka" fought, unlike the T-90 (and the T-90MS even more so that it hadn’t shown anything yet). You can argue about TTX as much as you like, but practice puts everything in its place.
            1. Aleks tv
              13 August 2013 01: 09 New
              0
              Quote: DonVel
              You can argue about TTX as much as you like, but practice puts everything in its place.

              And no one is going to brandish booklets with TTX and TTD.
              On T-90ms is what tankers need.
              If it goes into the series - it will be great.
              1. Donvel
                Donvel 13 August 2013 11: 47 New
                0
                T-90 tank is good, yes. But all the achievements of our defense industry both went for export and they are going.
  13. tank64rus
    tank64rus 12 August 2013 21: 18 New
    +2
    True they write. "Workhorse" BTV Soviet Army and other countries. Kalashnikov tank troops.
  14. Fofan
    Fofan 12 August 2013 22: 30 New
    +2
    T72 was the best tank in my opinion in its time. T90 picked up. how do I hotstsa see armature, who would know. and not in the pictures but live. and not just in the stall, but in action. mmmmmmm .......
  15. User_internet
    User_internet 12 August 2013 22: 35 New
    +3
    Merkava and Abrams are peacetime tanks, not one industry is able to quickly assemble complex electronic systems that are crammed with the above tanks. The front will devour the tanks, and the factories will not have time to fill up. And end up with tanks assembled according to a simplified scheme. A good example of tigers and t-34s, but tigers are very good tanks, but very expensive and not technologically advanced, unlike t-34s. And the reason for the huge losses of our tanks in the Second World War is the “merit of our commanders” who killed people in vain, and not the lack of equipment.
    1. Fofan
      Fofan 12 August 2013 22: 44 New
      0
      Quote: User_internet
      Merkava and Abrams are peacetime tanks, not one industry is able to quickly assemble complex electronic systems that are crammed with the above tanks. The front will devour the tanks, and the factories will not have time to fill up. And end up with tanks assembled according to a simplified scheme. A good example of tigers and t-34s, but tigers are very good tanks, but very expensive and not technologically advanced, unlike t-34s. And the reason for the huge losses of our tanks in the Second World War is the “merit of our commanders” who killed people in vain, and not the lack of equipment.
      hospadi, what is the front now? merit of which commanders? did you miss sedatives?
    2. 7ydmco
      7ydmco 12 August 2013 22: 49 New
      0
      Let's face it, comparing the Tiger and t34 is not entirely correct smile
  16. bublic82009
    bublic82009 12 August 2013 22: 49 New
    +1
    T-72 for its time a revolutionary tank. one caliber of what was worth. comparing the T-72 of the first modifications with the Abrams of the latest modifications makes our tank only an honor. that is, this is the stove from which everyone is dancing.
  17. 7ydmco
    7ydmco 12 August 2013 22: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Teks
    an interesting moment, the merkava is the most adapted tank for battle in the city, place a couple of snipers and a machine gunner in its airborne squad (by the way, not one tank has a carrot), landing at the right time for escort, and the tank and infantry are integrated into a single information battlefield and get an excellent result


    The only justification for such a loud statement about - "the most adapted tank for battle in the city" is that it has a small landing squad? Not much, frankly smile
    1. Tex
      Tex 12 August 2013 23: 24 New
      0
      I didn’t come up with this, I’ll definitely find the link, I’m sorry I don’t remember the source.
  18. Tex
    Tex 12 August 2013 23: 05 New
    0
    T-72 (72A, 72B) the car is good, but today it is extremely unwise to apply these modifications in a full-blown conflict, it is necessary to carry out their deep modernization to the t-90 level, which is quite realistic (the same Ukrainian t-72MP), it is cheaper than buy leopards from the Germans + jobs + workload of their own military-industrial complex, and certainly not leave old samples to rust (55,62,64) are ready-made solid (because Soviet) platforms for the same terminators.
  19. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 12 August 2013 23: 51 New
    +1
    Thanks for the interesting and objective article!

    QUOTES:
    - "UVZ on the basis of technological solutions T-64 ..."
    - "THE FIRST cars were created by a simple REDUCTION of serial T-64A ..."
    - "... a MOBILIZATION version of the T-64A was developed

    The fact that the chassis, the engine and the AZ have been finalized - GOOD FELLOWS! good

    And who produced the T-72 with simplified non-secret armor, an ancient optical range finder, a mechanical ballistic computer? After all, a tank should not only drive well, but also DESTROY enemy tanks! And here from the three described (T-64, T-72, T-80) he is an explicit OUTSIDER !!! hi
    1. Aleks tv
      13 August 2013 00: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: sergey158-29
      Thanks for the interesting and objective article!

      hi
      Thanks to the creators of this machine.

      Quote: sergey158-29
      And who produced the T-72 with simplified non-secret armor, an ancient optical rangefinder, a mechanical ballistic computer?

      Sergey, this phrase in the article had a subtext about the modifications supplied for export, since on such machines information is always possible to “leak” to a potential enemy.
      Therefore, they did not put on them all sorts of stray that were installed on our tanks in series.
      And even cars of this configuration showed themselves worthy.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. svp67
    svp67 13 August 2013 00: 58 New
    0
    The installation of the B-172K engine in the 45 facility ... provided, in comparison with the 434 facility:
    - reduction of time for ... preparing the tank to overcome water barriers;
    - the ability to operate the engine on different grades of fuel.
    To be honest, this statement was still true before the Broad system was installed on the T64, after which the T64 became much easier and faster to prepare for overcoming water barriers than the T72 ...
    1. Aleks tv
      13 August 2013 01: 23 New
      0
      Quote: svp67
      the statement was still true before installing the Broad system on the T64,

      This is the 1970 report of the year, and the data about the "172 Object".
      Collecting material is just about creating a car because of the anniversary, that's all.

      And for fun, Sergey, do not tell me when the "ford" was installed on the T-64 and T-80? I don’t know these cars so well from the history of modifications, but I hardly had to serve them.
      1. svp67
        svp67 13 August 2013 06: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: Aleks tv
        And for fun, Sergey, do not tell me when the "ford" was installed on the T-64 and T-80?
        I won’t say anything about Т80, my acquaintance with her began with Т80Б, but I can talk about Т64. The "Brod" system appeared on it at the time of putting it on the T64B conveyor, it was then tested on the T64A, well, and later, during overhauls, many of the previously released tanks were equipped ...
      2. svp67
        svp67 13 August 2013 11: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Aleks tv
        And for fun

        I had a T64AM in my platoon, while serving in the GSVG, that's where I personally saw the stages of modernization ... The features of our separate guard Uman-Pomeranian five-regiment regiment for covering the border, and in principle of all similar ones, were what were in the platoons there were five tanks. And there were cars with and without the Brod system. I must say right away that the presence of the system greatly facilitated life in preparation for overcoming water barriers ... and during maintenance, it did not make it very difficult ...
  22. LM66
    LM66 13 August 2013 11: 04 New
    0
    And what kind of tanks with two guns went to the parade for a long time?
  23. Wynd
    Wynd 13 August 2013 13: 58 New
    0
    Anyone familiar with andrei-bt. In places, of course, it is disgusting to read it because of the Chernukha and hostility to everything Russian. But in places competently and in the case, the T-72 reveals the shortcomings and disadvantages.
    And he recognizes the best tank of the USSR T-64. What are your thoughts on this? soldier
  24. Aleks tv
    13 August 2013 15: 13 New
    0
    Quote: svp67
    And there were cars like with the Broad system,


    Thanks for both comments on the Broad system, Sergey.
    Interesting. I read reviews about her in the internet, knew little about her. Good feedback.
    In the Transbaikalia, the Urals and the Caucasus, the T-64 was not widespread, so it was not possible to serve them.
  25. Aleks tv
    13 August 2013 15: 16 New
    +2
    Quote: Wynd
    And he recognizes the best tank of the USSR T-64. What are your thoughts on this?

    The thoughts are the same:
    Tankosrach not suit tankers.
    I am glad that in this discussion it was practically not there.
    Read the article and comments. We are here, as it were, on a birthday.

    And we serve on what the Motherland has given.
    wink
    1. Kars
      Kars 13 August 2013 16: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: Aleks tv
      Tankosrach not suit tankers.

      we can do it.
      1. Aleks tv
        13 August 2013 16: 32 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        we can do it.

        But Kars simply has encyclopedic knowledge of tanks.
        Impressive ...
        Not often found.

        But trolling is just killing.
        laughing
        No offense, I'm in a good way.
    2. Wynd
      Wynd 15 August 2013 05: 22 New
      0
      Thanks for the material. This is not to be taken away - there is no tank sack. Just when I came across ... (I won’t repeat it, you will find it an advertisement), I wanted to have some arguments against the dirt poured onto the tank soldier, 72ku hi
  26. Aleks tv
    13 August 2013 15: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: LM66
    And what kind of tanks with two guns went to the parade for a long time?

    How long?

    Before the war, the T-35 generally sported three cannons.
    After the war, ZSU-57-2 was distributed.

    There were a lot of things in the parades.
    And not only we had parades.
    1. LM66
      LM66 13 August 2013 16: 04 New
      +1
      I remember seeing on television, black and white, probably the end of 60 to the beginning of 70. I looked at ZSU-57-2, probably he. thank
  27. Tex
    Tex 13 August 2013 16: 11 New
    0
    After the war, ZSU-57-2 was distributed.
    it looks like they are))
  28. Prohor
    Prohor 13 August 2013 20: 20 New
    +2
    Victory in ANY war is an unpretentious T-72 with such unpretentious, simple tankmen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvHddydNQIA&list=TLBPKT72FW8VA
    This Syrian peasant has the spirit of our grandfathers, who have broken both the "advanced" ideologies and the advanced technologies of their time ....
  29. amber-50
    amber-50 14 August 2013 14: 44 New
    +1
    The article is undoubtedly +++++. Thank you. I’ve written it with my mind.
  30. Strategy
    Strategy 4 December 2017 20: 40 New
    0
    August 7, 1973 was adopted by the object 172M

    About. 172М appeared much later ...