Military Review

August 2008 of the year. War in the air

101



M. Saakashvili’s coming to power was marked by a rise in nationalist sentiment in Georgia. And without that, the not too friendly policy towards Russia has become openly hostile. Wanting to enter history as a “statist” and “land gatherer” M. Saakashvili unleashed in the media hysteria about the allegedly “aggressive intentions of the northern neighbor” and “the return of the originally Georgian territories”.

August 2008 of the year. War in the air


Information warfare was accompanied by unprecedented military preparations. The military budget was increased several times, the army began to be transferred to a contract basis, large-scale purchases of weapons and military equipment abroad began. The largest partners in the supply weapons became Ukraine and Israel.

The United States rendered significant free military assistance to equip the Georgian army with modern communications, small arms and helicopters. And also in the training of personnel. The states of Eastern Europe also participated in the renewal and strengthening of Georgian air defense.

The situation in the zone of presence of the Russian peacekeeping forces began to heat up long before the transition to the stage of full-scale conflict.
Regular shelling and provocations were accompanied by reconnaissance flights over the territory of South Ossetia and Abkhazia UAV "Hermes-450", an Israeli production.



In the period to June 2008, five "Hermes-450" were received from Israel, two vehicles were shot down by Russian fighters.

GEORGIAN air force and air defense before war in ossetia

By the beginning of August 2008, the number of personnel of the Georgian Air Force was 1813 people. The main strike force was the 12 attack aircraft Su-25 (of which 10 - in single and two - in double combat training options).
Most of them were collected from the Soviet side of the Tbilisi plant “Tbilaviamsheni”, the rest were bought in Macedonia, which in turn acquired them in Ukraine.



Starting from 2001, the Georgian attack aircraft (according to various data from 6 to 10 units) were upgraded by the Israeli firm "Elbit Systems" with a complete replacement of on-board electronic equipment.



The updated machines received the index Su-25KM and the name "Scorpion". However, the Georgians themselves call them "Mimino" but not in honor of the character of the famous comedy, simply "mimino" in Georgian means "falcon".

In addition, there were several military transport vehicles An-24, An-32 and An-72, 12 of the Czechoslovak combat-training aircraft L-39 "Albatross" (six of them are also former Ukrainian) and nine older combat-training L- 29 Dolphin.

The helicopter fleet was represented by one Mi-35, three Mi-24P, four Mi-24В (most of the attack helicopters of the Mi-24 family were received from Ukraine), two Mi-14, sixteen Mi-8, six American Bell-212, the same number UH-1Н Iroquois and two Mi-2.


Mi-24 Georgian Air Force


The main location of the Georgian Air Force was the Marneuli airbase with a developed infrastructure, inherited by the Georgians from Soviet times. They constantly housed Su-25 attack aircraft, and training and combat vehicles. The helicopters were based partly at the Novo-Alekseyevka airfield near Tbilisi, partly at Senaki.

Georgian military air bases have strong, well-protected reinforced concrete shelters for aircraft. However, they were built in the 60-e - 70-e years of the last century and are designed for the dimensions of combat vehicles of the time, such as the MiG-21, Su-7, Su-17, MiG-23 and MiG-27, the last three could fit in them only with folded wings.



Su-25 can be “squeezed” into such a shelter only by undoing its wing console. Therefore, the Georgian “mimino” and “rooks” constantly stood in the open air, and relatively small training “dolphins” and “albatrosses” were kept in shelters.

After the collapse of the USSR, Georgia received the stationary C-75 and C-125 air defense systems, which were located in positions in the Tbilisi area. But by the time the conflict began, due to the lack of proper maintenance, they were all not combat-ready. Repeatedly reported in the media about the presence in Georgia of the former Ukrainian long-range air defense systems C-200 later turned out to be false. However, this is not surprising: there was no point in buying a clearly outdated, bulky, immobile and difficult to operate anti-aircraft anti-aircraft system using liquid fuel.

Shortly before the start of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict, a separate anti-aircraft missile division (OZRDN) was formed and put into operation, consisting of three much more modern anti-aircraft missile systems 9K37М1 "Buk-М1", received in June 2007 from Ukraine. Each complex consisted of four self-propelled fire installations (SOW) with four missiles each. It was this mobile division that took the most active part in the hostilities.



The second division of "beeches" was never formed. The materiel and the stock of missiles for him came from Ukraine on the ferry "Heroes of Pleven" 12 on June 2008, but the Georgians did not have time to train the calculations and put the division into operation. Subsequently, he was captured by Russian paratroopers.

The structure of the military air defense system consisted of two Osa-AK ZNK 9KZMM2 and one Osa-AKM ZRK 9KЗЗЗЗ batteries. All 12 combat vehicles with six missiles on each, however, it is not known how many of them were combat-capable. Information passed that part of the "Os" Georgians dismantled for parts.


SAM "OCA-AKM"


In addition, the Georgians had a number of 57-mm anti-aircraft guns C-60,15 23-mm ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", around 20 units ZU-23 on various self-propelled chassis, 30 MANPADS "Thunder" and about 100 rockets (Polish version of the Soviet 9K310 “Needle-1” MANPADS), as well as several dozen 9K32М Strela-2М. The Georgian “know-how” was equipping the calculations of MANPADS with quad bikes of increased maneuverability, which greatly increased their mobility and made it possible to quickly change firing positions.

Finally, there are allegations of the acquisition by Georgia in 2008 of one battery of the new Israeli short-range air defense system Spyder-SR. The Rafael Spyder-SR air defense system uses Python 5 and Derby air-to-air missiles as anti-aircraft missiles. There is no official confirmation of any deliveries of the Spyder-SR complex to Georgia, but the Jane's Missiles & Rockets magazine in July 2008, citing a statement from a Rafael representative, said that “the Spyder-SR complex was ordered by two foreign customers, one of which supplied the SAM on alert ".


PU ZRK "Spider"


The Israeli authorities still have not officially recognized the sale of “Spiders” to Georgia, and the Georgian leadership at the official level does not respond to reports in the press about their use in the Georgian-Ossetian conflict. However, there is information about the head end of the Python rocket found in the battle zone.

The radar component of the Georgian air defense system consisted of the following types of radar: 36Д6, П-37, 5Н87, П-18, 19Ж6, PRV-9, -11, -13, ASR-12, and XRNXX, ASR-XNUMX, and XRUM-XNUMX, -XNUMX, ASR-XNUMX, XRUMX, XRNXX, ASR-XNUMX , TBILISI, MARNEULI and civilian radar integrated into a single information network.

To control the fighting used wired communication lines, radio stations operating in a secure mode of transmission of information, means of communication and data transmission for civilian purposes.

The post closest to the border with South Ossetia was located a few kilometers from the village of Shavsevebi and the Gori district. A modern Ukrainian-made 36-D6-M radar was installed on the hill. This station, with a high degree of noise immunity, is capable of detecting air targets at a distance of 360 km, that is, almost the entire territory of the North Caucasus from the Black Sea to the Caspian Sea has reached the range of the Shavcheviche radar. At the same time, the station can accompany in automatic mode up to 120 targets and transmit information about them to operators of anti-aircraft missile launchers. The second such radar was installed near Tbilisi.


Destroyed Georgian 36D6-M radar


The civilian radar of the Georgian Air Service served the airports of Tbilisi, Kutaisi, Batumi, Poti, Telavi and Marneuli. Of course, after the outbreak of hostilities, all the information from them was made available to the military.

Ukraine’s participation in the creation of the Georgian Air Force and Air Defense was not limited to the delivery of airplanes, helicopters, radars and anti-aircraft missile systems. In 2006, Kiev for 25 millions of dollars sold to Georgia a new one, created just three years earlier, the Kolchuga-M passive radio intelligence complex consisting of three reconnaissance stations.



This complex is designed to detect airborne targets by emitting their radars and communications equipment. The three stations included in it, located on the automobile chassis, are capable of covering the front up to 1000 kilometers. The maximum detection range, depending on the mode of operation, ranges from 200 to 600 kilometers.

In addition, in 2007, the Ukrainian corporation Aerotekhnika connected all the Georgian military and civilian radars, as well as the Kolchuga-M complex, into a single network of ASOC airspace monitoring (AirSovereigntyOperationsCenters). The central command post of ASOC is located in Tbilisi and since the spring of 2008 has been connected to the ASDE (AirSituationDataExchange) NATO air traffic data exchange system.

It is not known how effective Kolchuga proved in practice and what the results of its use were, since the Georgian military command, for understandable reasons, does not disclose such information. There is no information even about whether the Georgians managed to maintain this system or whether it was destroyed during the hostilities. Among the many trophies captured by the Russian army in the "five-day war", this system and its individual components are not listed.

THE BEGINNING OF COMBAT ACTION

In response to the invasion of the Georgian troops, the Russian leadership decided to launch a “peace enforcement operation” by the 58 Army of the North Caucasus Military District, stationed in North Ossetia.

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On the Russian side, the following units of the 4 Air Force of the North Caucasus Military District were involved in the fighting:

368-th separate assault air regiment from Budennovsk (Su-25 and Su-25СМ, commander - Colonel Sergey Kobylash);
461-th assault air regiment from Krasnodar (Su-25, commander-colonel Valery Kushnerev);
559-th Bomber Aviation Regiment from Morozovsk (Su-24M, commander - Colonel Sergey Borodachev);
959-th bomber regiment from Yeisk (Su-24M);
11-th separate Guards Vitebsk reconnaissance air regiment from Marinovka (Su-24МР, commander - guard Colonel Vasily Neizhmak);
19-th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment from Millerovo (MiG-29, Commander - Guards Colonel Vyacheslav Kudinov);
31 Guards Nikopol Fighter Regiment from Zernograd (MiG-29, commander - Guards Colonel Oleg Soloviev);
55-th separate Sevastopol helicopter regiment from Korenovsk (Mi-8, Mi-24, commander - Lieutenant Colonel Dmitry Sergeev);
325-yotdelny transport-combat helicopter regiment from Egorlykskaya (Mi-8, Mi-26, commander - Colonel Vladimir Grigoryan);
487-th separate helicopter regiment from Budennovsk (Mi-8, Mi-24P and Mi-24PN, commander - Colonel Evgeny Fedotov);
In addition, separate airplanes and crews from air units that are not part of 4 VA were involved:
52 Guards TBAP (Tu-22МЗ, airfield "Shaykovka");
929-th GLITS (Akhtubinsk, Su-24МР);
4-th pulp and paper industry. Chkalov (Lipetsk, Su-24M, Su-25CM) and some others.

However, this rather long list of aircraft parts should not be misleading.
Often, from the units indicated here in the combat zone, isolated vehicles were present. The total number of Russian combat and reconnaissance aircraft and helicopters that were directly involved in the conflict did not exceed hundreds of vehicles.

The ground defense of the 58 units of the Russian army that entered the battle against the Georgian forces in South Ossetia consisted of self-propelled anti-aircraft units ZSU-23-4 Shilka, ZRPK 2K22 Tunguska, and portable anti-aircraft missile systems. In addition to MANPADS, the paratroopers were armed with self-propelled anti-aircraft guns BTR-ZD “Skreset” with anti-aircraft guns ZU-23

Based on the foregoing, it can be concluded that Russian aircraft during the war in Ossetia surpassed Georgian aircraft in both quantitative and qualitative terms. However, Georgian anti-aircraft weapons, with the support of an advanced electronic detection system, were quite capable of providing very serious opposition to it. Unfortunately, our aviation command underestimated this threat ...

In the morning and afternoon hours of the first day of the war, when a column of armored vehicles of the 58 Army marched along the mountain "serpentine" from the Roki tunnel to the south, in the direction of Dzau, the only one who could assist the defenders of Tskhinval in repelling the Georgian offensive was Russian military aviation. The Su-25 and Su-25СМ from the 368-th Separate Assault Aviation Regiment under the command of Colonel Sergey Kobylash were the first to enter the battle.
Su-25 368-th OSHAP is one of the most militant regiments of the Russian Air Force.

Formed in the 1984 year at the Zhotnevoe airfield, he fought 1986-87 in Afghanistan, then managed to visit the territory of the GDRs as part of the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany, and from the XXUMX year based in the North Caucasus, in Budyonovsk.

The regiment went through both Chechen wars, in 1995 he survived the attack of terrorists Shamil Basayev, but never in his history did he encounter such strong anti-aircraft resistance and did not carry such heavy one-time losses as in the first two days of the “Ossetian” war - August 8 and 9 2008 of the year.

In one of the first sorties, during an attack on a convoy of Georgian troops south of Tskhinval, an anti-aircraft missile shot down the plane of the squadron deputy commander Lieutenant Colonel Oleg Terebunsky, an experienced pilot, who had 120 sorties in his wars in Chechen wars. The pilot ejected and went to his. 22 August decree of the President of Russia, he was awarded the Order of Courage.

In addition, during the day, attack aircraft Captain Ivan Nechaev and Colonel Oleg Molostvov suffered serious damage, but both pilots managed to return to their airfield and safely land. On the Nechaev's plane, the left engine was completely destroyed, the right one was damaged.

After the plane landed, it turned out that kerosene from a broken fuel hose flows directly onto the runway, and it had to be filled with fire-fighting foam. On the plane of the same Molostvov technology on return counted 88 fragmentation holes.



Despite the losses, the Russian pilots by their actions significantly reduced the offensive activity of the Georgian troops and thereby prevented the enemy from establishing full control over Tskhinval.

Georgians report very little about their losses from the air raids suffered on the first day of the war in the region of the capital of South Ossetia. In the press release of the Georgian Ministry of Defense for 8 August there is information only about the destruction of a truck with ammunition.

While the Rooks and Mi-24 were operating on the outskirts of Tskhinval, the Su-24M bombers attacked targets in the depths of Georgian territory.

Their first priority was to isolate the combat area — preventing the enemy from approaching reinforcements. In carrying out this task, the 8 of August, at noon, attacked the convoy of the 4 Brigade of the Georgian Armed Forces, which was moving along the highway from Gori to Tskhinval. As a result of the bombing, five trucks and several jeeps were destroyed, more than 20 soldiers and officers were killed, including the commander of one of the 4 battalions of the brigade Major Shalva Dolidze. A few dozen people were injured.

On the part of Georgia, this turned out to be the greatest single-step loss of the Georgian army during the entire war. Most of those hit were demoralized and largely lost their combat capability. It is noteworthy that the 4 Brigade was considered the elite of the Georgian army, it was prepared by American instructors and armed with American weapons.

Initially, the Georgians claimed that cluster munitions were used in the attack on the convoy. Then their opinion changed and there were reports that the Russian plane allegedly dropped a volume explosion ammunition - the so-called
"Vacuum bomb". But our military deny the use of both cluster and detonating bombs in the conflict with Georgia, so the question of the type of munitions used remains open.



According to Georgian sources, the first Russian bombardment was marked on 9.45 in the morning - a Russian plane dropped four bombs near the village of Shavshevey.
In 10.57, two bombers attacked the base of the Georgian artillery brigade, located close to the residential area of ​​the city of Gori. Glasses flew out of explosions in nearby houses, in some places the walls were broken by shrapnel.
At 11.45, a Russian reconnaissance aircraft first appeared above the Marneuli airfield, taking photographs.
In 15.00, two bombs were dropped on the Vaziani military base in 25 kilometers from Tbilisi, where the reservists ’assembly point and the American instructors of the Georgian army were located. One of the bombs hit the canteen building. No losses were reported.
16.30 - the first bombing of the Marneuli airbase. Several buildings were destroyed, the runway was damaged, two Georgian military planes of an unnamed type were destroyed. The loss of life was briefly reported: “there are victims.”
The 17.00 is the second Marneuli air strike, which again “caused the victims.”
17.35 - Marneuli airbase was bombarded for the third time. The Georgians acknowledged the destruction of three more military aircraft and several automobiles; among the airfield personnel, one person was killed, four were injured.


Satellite image of Google Earth: airfield Scamredia


It is likely that as a result of this series of attacks, the airbase was permanently out of order, and the majority of Georgian attack aircraft were either destroyed or seriously damaged. In any case, in the further course of the conflict, only one appearance of Mimino over Tskhinval is reliably known. The Albatros Georgians, apparently, did not apply at all because of their low combat effectiveness and high vulnerability from modern air defense systems.


Google Earth satellite image: Implications of the Vaziani air strike. Non-adjustable free-fall bombs were used.

Analysis of the combat use of Russian aviation in the early days of hostilities showed that the planning for the support of combat operations by the operational groups of aviation and air defense in the South Ossetian and Abkhaz sectors was carried out without taking into account the capabilities of Georgia’s air defense systems and the specifics of using their EW aviation equipment to suppress them. Gross mistakes were made in the formulation of combat missions, which could lead to the loss of concealed aircraft, which were avoided only by competent actions of the commander of the EW consolidated squadron.



The actions of Russian aviation were characterized by the following failures:
- the possible location of active air defense systems of Georgia and their detection and destruction zones was not taken into account;
- no terrain was used;
- repeated visits were made to targets (and from the same directions);
- the position of the sun and the objects illuminated by it was not taken into account;
- anti-aircraft and anti-missile maneuvers were not performed;
- flight to the targets and back 8 and 9 August was carried out on the same route;
- the absence of reconnaissance aircraft capable of conducting detailed radio reconnaissance in real time with high accuracy in determining the coordinates of the radar;
- the discrepancy between the frequency ranges of the RGS missiles "air-radar" and the radar air defense missile system of Soviet production, the absence of control equipment and target designation;
- the insufficient number of jammers, their short time in the jamming zone;
- insufficient height of the maximum ceiling of the flight of helicopters - jammers, as a result of which it was impossible to use them in the mountainous terrain of South Ossetia;
- lack of means of group defense protection from battle formations.

The actions of Georgian aviation were rather passive. According to the results of the first day of the war, the Georgians announced that their aircraft had bombed the Russian one at 8 a.m. tank a convoy that left the Roki Tunnel, destroying dozens of armored vehicles, and then destroyed the Guftinsky Bridge, making it impossible for the Russian troops to move from Dzau to Tskhinval. However, both of these messages turned out to be false. And the column did not suffer, and the bridge remained intact.

The passivity of the Georgian "falcons" at a time when they still had the ability to influence the outcome of the conflict is difficult to explain.
Perhaps the Georgian command objectively assessed the level of training of their pilots in order to give them the order to attack small targets in narrow mountain gorges. Or maybe Georgians feared Russian air defense weapons and
fighter-interceptors. Or they simply underestimated the threat posed by the Roki tunnel.

SUCCESSES OF THE GEORGIAN air defense

Unlike the Georgian Air Force, whose actions cannot be called effective at all, the Georgian anti-aircraft gunners in the first period of the war managed to achieve significant success. Particularly distinguished division "beeches", operating in the area of ​​Gori. Already in the morning he managed to shoot down the Russian intelligence officer Su-24MR, who piloted the crew of the 929 GLITS from Akhtubinsk as part of the pilot Colonel Igor Zinov and the navigator Colonel Igor Rzhavitin. The plane crashed on Georgian territory 17 kilometers from Gori. The pilots managed to eject, but Igor Rzhavitin died. Colonel Zinov, having received injuries to the head and spine during the ejection, could not move. Georgian soldiers found him and took him to a Tbilisi hospital.

It is still not clear why the crew, consisting of two colonels of the flight test center, was sent for reconnaissance, all the more so that the command of the 4 Air Army has an 11 Guards reconnaissance air regiment equipped with the same Su-24MR and staffed by experienced pilots . Whatever the case, this loss was one of the most painful for our air force during the conflict.

But even more severe blow was waiting for them at night. Around midnight on August 8, a long-range Tu-22 M3 bomber from the 52 Guards TBAP was shot down over Georgia. Soviet-Russian aircraft did not lose their bombers of this class in a combat situation since the end of the Second World War.

The wreckage of an aircraft hit by a direct hit by an anti-aircraft missile fell near the village of Kareli in the area of ​​the Ossetian-Georgian border, in the territory controlled by Georgian forces at that time. Of the four crew members, only one survived - the co-pilot Major Vyacheslav Malkov, who was captured. The crew commander, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Koventsov, as well as Majors Viktor Pryadkin and Igor Nesterov, were killed.
The most reliable is information that a downed Tu-22М3, specially equipped for aerial photography, brought up a group of 9 bombers. The task of the group included the defeat of Georgian objects.
The reconnaissance Tu-22М3 also had a bomb load. He had to evaluate the results of the bombings and, if necessary, deliver additional strikes. Anti-aircraft defenses in the area were not expected.
Most likely, the Russian bombers came under fire from the Ukrainian complex Buk-M1. The assault Tu-22М3, using standard EW and anti-missile maneuver, could evade missile attacks, and the scout was shot down.

In total, during the combat operations, the Russian Air Force lost three Su-25, two Su-24 and one Tu-22М3. It was also established that after the end of the conflict, a plane crash occurred in South Ossetia - two Mi-8MTKO and Mi-24 helicopters crashed. Perhaps part of the attack aircraft was struck by "friendly fire."

In spite of the losses, the Russian aviation was able to accomplish all the tasks set, but at the same time, an analysis of the actions of the Air Force during this war forces us to seriously consider and draw some unpleasant conclusions. And the main one is that the Air Force is not fully ready to fully engage in combat operations under the conditions of countering modern air defense. In addition, given the weak immunity of their similar air defense systems (first of all, the RTV radar and military electronic defense system installations are not ready to repel modern means of air attack. When countering modern enemy air defense systems, combat losses will be significantly higher.

Based on:
http://army.lv/ru/su-24/405/19768
http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/541199/
http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic7040.html
http://www.arms-expo.ru/050055049057124051057050054.html
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  1. roma2
    roma2 13 August 2013 07: 54
    52 th
    As the saying goes, "showered with hats."

    "Most likely, Russian bombers came under fire from the Ukrainian Buk-M1 complex." As I understand it, having flown to the territory of Ukraine ????
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 09: 07
      19
      Your sarcasm is not appropriate, if it were not for deliveries of air defense missiles from Ukraine and the combat work of Ukrainian calculations, the Georgians would not be able to oppose anything to our aviation.
      1. roma2
        roma2 13 August 2013 09: 24
        14
        Dear, do not look for excuses for the incompetence of your generals, did you hope for an easy walk invading Georgia ????
        Who cares whose weapon ??? By the way, the Russian side did not provide any evidence of the participation of Ukrainian settlements in this conflict.
        Or do you need a lot of intelligence to destroy air defense and after that send planes there for bombing? Or destroy targets with precision weapons ??
        Having before my eyes more than one example of "rolling air defense" amers, Israelis, and so on. you decided to go head-on and received an appropriate answer.
        1. Bongo
          13 August 2013 09: 29
          23
          What evidence? Yushchenko himself acknowledged the participation of Ukrainian calculations in hostilities.
          The article, the author of which I have the honor to be, in my opinion, contains a rather critical analysis of the planning of actions of our aviation. But, in my opinion, it is not worth "going too far" by indiscriminate criticism of the actions of our pilots.
          1. roma2
            roma2 13 August 2013 09: 35
            -5
            Quote: Bongo
            What evidence? Yushchenko himself acknowledged the participation of Ukrainian calculations in hostilities.


            ???????? Where does such data come from ??? Is Yusch under a hundred grams and a cucumber shared information ???

            And I did not say a word about the pilots, they did their job with honor, and all the complaints to those who planned and prepared this work.
            1. Bongo
              13 August 2013 09: 43
              12
              The Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office has found confirmation of information that Ukrainian citizens a year ago were on the territory of Georgia during the Georgian-Ossetian armed conflict, serving the Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems sold to this country.

              According to the Ukrainian newspaper Segodnya, after the fact that Ukrainian servicemen took part in the hostilities during the August war in South Ossetia, the Prosecutor General’s Office conducted its own inspection.

              “In the process of checking, the GPU found a number of gross violations, which had previously been announced by the head of the temporary investigation commission of the Verkhovna Rada, Valery Konovalyuk. Thus, Ukraine not only sold Georgia at a lower price for the Buk-М1 air defense system, but also sent a group of civilian specialists from the city of Balakley of the Kharkiv region who served these complexes, with the help of which the Georgians fired on Russian combat aircraft. Valery Kabanets, Dmitry Pilipchuk, Vladimir Ponomarenko, and other specialists who were on the territory of Georgia from 5 to 13 last August, that is, before, during and after the armed conflict with South Ossetia, they wrote their own explanations about their stay in Georgia. Participation in hostilities they deny, but do not deny that the equipment serviced. However, whether this is true, it can be installed only on-site. But serious obstacles are being made. As well as the work of the entire group, which found that the air defense system, as well as other weapons and military equipment were sold to Georgia at prices in 8 and more times less than the real ones. The check continues, but people are already hinting at dismissal of staff redundancies, ”the publication cites the publication of a high-ranking source in the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine.

              Official Kiev earlier denied reports about the participation of Ukrainian soldiers, or specialists in military operations during the Georgian-Ossetian conflict in August 2008.
              1. Akim
                Akim 13 August 2013 10: 15
                -5
                Quote: Bongo
                serving the Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems sold to this country.

                This is hackneyed information. They left back in May. But it is useless to prove it to you - propaganda has eaten into the brain.
                1. Bongo
                  13 August 2013 10: 16
                  16
                  Yes, he doubted that there were no Americans there either ....
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 13 August 2013 10: 26
                    -3
                    Quote: Bongo
                    Yes, he doubted that there were no Americans there either ....

                    There are citizens of the country who may be mere mercenaries, and the participation of regular military personnel is drawing the country into war. There could be both Americans and Ukrainians, and even Zulus. This is their personal business or those private offices that sent them Secretly, no specialists allocated from the army.
                    1. Bongo
                      13 August 2013 10: 31
                      +8
                      Of course, this is formally the case, but the relevant services of any self-respecting state can control this process. Without their tacit approval, the presence of such specialists is not possible. Yes, and transactions for the supply of weapons usually involve the assistance of specialists.
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 13 August 2013 10: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: Bongo
                        but the relevant services of any self-respecting state can control this process

                        Now in Syria, both Russian and Ukrainian mercenaries are fighting on the side of the rebels. Does someone control them at home?
                      2. Bongo
                        13 August 2013 10: 49
                        +9
                        About the Russians fighting on the side of the rebels, I can not say anything. You probably know better, but I can say for sure that there are no Russian specialists on the air defense system there.
                      3. Akim
                        Akim 13 August 2013 10: 52
                        +3
                        Quote: Bongo
                        Russian experts on air defense systems are definitely not there.

                        Even Assad?
                      4. Bongo
                        13 August 2013 10: 55
                        10
                        The question is so understand rhetorical? laughing
                      5. Akim
                        Akim 13 August 2013 11: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Bongo
                        I understand the rhetorical question

                        Not at all. The legitimate government of Syria acquired air defense systems from Russia and could well legally attract Russian specialists for technical training.
                      6. Bongo
                        13 August 2013 11: 05
                        +6
                        Quite possibly...
                      7. Akim
                        Akim 13 August 2013 11: 09
                        +3
                        Quote: Bongo
                        Quite possibly...

                        Therefore, I say. You do not like this approach purely from a moral point of view, but from a legal point of view, there is no mistake. Ukrainian specialists could cook Georgians, as well as Russian pros Syrians. Or do you think the Georgians are dumber than the Syrian that he himself can’t do it?
                      8. Bongo
                        13 August 2013 11: 15
                        +9
                        I did not communicate with Syrians, but Georgians had a chance with sodates.
                      9. Akim
                        Akim 13 August 2013 11: 18
                        -2
                        Quote: Bongo
                        but the Georgians happened to the sodates.

                        And?
                      10. roial
                        roial 13 August 2013 11: 29
                        +5
                        And as a result, stupid Georgian soldiers led by Ukrainian retirees shot down 6 planes, aren't you ashamed to pour everything on others?
                        Now we will agree that the Russian tanks knocked out the bloodthirsty Zulus with spears.
                        Know how to admit your mistakes, but the main thing is not to repeat them anymore.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. Witold
                    Witold 14 August 2013 23: 13
                    +2
                    The war in Ossetia. Base peacekeepers.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMk_HPD0EtY
  2. Yarbay
    Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 11
    +2
    Quote: Bongo
    Of course, this is formally true, but the relevant services of any self-respecting state can control this process.

    So in Karabakh, almost every second officer from the side of the Armenians was a Russian officer, why were they not controlled ???
    Russia does not respect the state ??
  3. igor.borov775
    igor.borov775 14 August 2013 08: 19
    +6
    This is all in the past, If it were otherwise quickly the Americans were deported to the United States, Or they forgotten their memory as the space above the presidential plane was closed, So who is creeping in front of the Yankees, I remember even that moment when our neighbors were reconciled at a summit of the CIS countries Forgot or the memory completely disappeared, the Yankees promised to punish those who would support and reconcile, And the Europeans only 2 years later recognized Georgia as an aggressor and try not to speak on this topic, But the interesting topic is because RUSSIA was defeated at the UN, And in fact, our liberals suffered that they suddenly were silent at that time, and they were so brave, And the propaganda media suddenly lost their voice, Americans are terribly angry, It was then that it became clear that we had to rely on ourselves, And the Customs Union came out of paperwork for clearance, And the goals of that fuss are The UN was clearly visible to declare RUSSIA an aggressor to assemble a military convoy tied to the Europeans and deliver aid to Georgia with solid guards, But they flew by, and there it’s not far from the sanctions , And if you think it might work, do not be PUTIN, Eternal memory of the fallen and many thanks to the living of that war,
  • ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 13 August 2013 11: 11
    +7
    Yes, during the Korean War, there were also Korean pilots by the names of Ivanov, Petrov, Sidorov, and the USSR.
  • Corsair
    Corsair 13 August 2013 12: 20
    +3
    Quote: Akim
    Secretly, no one allocated specialists from the army.

    Then, how were the "notorious" air defense missile systems recruited? Something is not heard about the existence of PMCs in Ukraine, and if they exist, how is their activity regulated by Ukrainian legislation?
    Please enlighten us in this matter ...
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 28
      +3
      Quote: Corsair
      Then, how were the "notorious" air defense missile systems recruited?

      But how do they usually type ?? !!
    2. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 12: 30
      +3
      Quote: Corsair
      Then, how the "notorious" SAM calculations were recruited

      And who said that they were Ukrainians? General Staff of the Russian Federation. Apparently it was not so shameful for him to admit his miscalculations than if they were Georgians. Is there an official note or are criminal cases opened? For 5 years, apart from loud exclamations, nothing was heard. To say YES, you need good reason.
    3. Corsair
      Corsair 13 August 2013 12: 51
      +6
      Quote: Akim
      And who said that they were Ukrainians? General Staff of the Russian Federation.

      Infa, of course, is "old", but it is difficult to find something more "fresh" in this regard, due to the unwillingness of the Ukrainian side to cooperate in the investigation ...

      The Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine (GPU) confirmed that Ukrainian specialists helped the Georgian military during the conflict with South Ossetia in August last year. As the newspaper "Segodnya" writes on Friday, citing sources in law enforcement agencies, the Ukrainians maintained air defense systems, with the help of which Russian combat aircraft were fired. In addition, a number of gross violations have been established, including the fact that Ukraine really sold weapons and military equipment to Georgia at greatly reduced prices.
      According to the publication, these are the conclusions of the audit that the GPU conducted after similar conclusions made earlier by the interim commission of inquiry of the Verkhovna Rada, headed by Valery Konovalyuk. Now they have found official confirmation, sources said.
      "For example, Ukraine not only sold the Buk-M1 air defense missile system to Georgia at a reduced price, but also sent a group of civilian specialists from the city of Balakleya, Kharkiv region, who served these complexes, with the help of which Georgians fired at Russian combat aircraft," said an unnamed law enforcement official. organs.
      According to him, Valery Kabanets, Dmitry Pilipchuk, Vladimir Ponomarenko, other specialists who were in Georgia from 5 to 13 last August, that is, before, during, and after the armed conflict with South Ossetia, wrote their own explanations about their stay there .
      They deny participation in hostilities, but do not deny that they served the equipment. However, whether this corresponds to reality can only be established with a field trip, and serious obstacles are posed to this, the source noted. Also, according to him, the work of the whole group, which established that the air defense systems, as well as other weapons and military equipment, were sold to Georgia at prices eight or more times less than real, also impedes the work.
      "The check continues, but people are already hinting at dismissal due to staff reductions," the GPU spokesman said.
      Official sources are still denying everything.
      For our part, we recall that on August 24, on Independence Day of Ukraine, the Investigative Committee at the Prosecutor's Office (UPC) of Russia stated that irrefutable evidence was obtained of the participation of Ukrainians in Georgia’s aggression against South Ossetia. Russian investigators reported this earlier, but for the first time gave specific numbers (at least 200 of Ukrainian nationalists) and surnames (Shapoval, Kucherenko, Shevchenko, Matveyuk, Zheltokon).
      Kiev reacted the next day, refuting this information of the UPC and calling it provocation.
    4. Corsair
      Corsair 13 August 2013 13: 25
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      And who said that they were Ukrainians?

      Quote: Bongo
      I remember the same way that the then President of Ukraine Kuchma denied with foam at the mouth

      It is the work of politicians to deny everything. But in Ukraine everyone knew that this was the "work" of our anti-aircraft gunners, unfortunately. And people don't argue with that. We do not believe riding balabols, but prefer to analyze themselves.

      In your comments you are likened to politicians ...
    5. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 13: 44
      +2
      Quote: Corsair
      In your comments you are likened to politicians ...

      Maybe. No, I need to agree with the television version of Moscow and blame the guys for all mortal sins? Why should they become victims of politics, just because you are comfortable with just such an option? As the saying went in Gorbachev’s time: there are two opinions. One is mine, the other is wrong.
  • viktorR
    viktorR 13 August 2013 19: 34
    +6
    Well, then you crawl like that, huh? Do not be ashamed to breed demagoguery? Well, there were Ukrainian calculations, why bother? I am already silent that the Georgians simply had nowhere to prepare calculations for beech trees. And even if they weren’t there, you think the Ukrainian authorities would have become so curled up in facilitating the investigation, everything would have been transparent.

    And our same fellows fell on the breach ... Planning as such, as I understand it, was absent. I’m interested in the General Staff generally had some kind of action plan for such a case?
  • Akim
    Akim 13 August 2013 20: 04
    -3
    Quote: viktorR
    Well, there were Ukrainian calculations, why bother?

    There will be an official accusation of the Kremlin, as with the Tu-154M - then there will be a reason to agree or not. In the meantime, you're right - it's all demagogy
  • igor.borov775
    igor.borov775 14 August 2013 08: 28
    0
    What kind of plan are you talking about? The reduction was in full swing, What plans were we talking about when there were parts that they didn’t even shoot so easily and out of sight, They saved even the fuel, Forgetting the time and memory doesn’t allow,
  • mechanic driver
    mechanic driver 13 August 2013 21: 26
    +2
    these were citizens of Ukraine, recruited from former military, factory specialists. The economic situation in Ukraine was not ice and people just did not know what war would be. They used it blindly. We hired for apartments and money, at least promised. Imagine what some educated in USSR.
  • avt
    avt 13 August 2013 10: 40
    +9
    Quote: Akim
    But it is useless to prove it to you - propaganda has eaten into the brain.

    laughing
    Quote: Bongo
    Yes, he doubted that there were no Americans there either ....

    good Everything is like Bulgakov: “- Well, this is positively interesting, shaking with laughter, the professor said,“ what’s it you have, whatever you grab, nothing! ”But they don’t want to read further how Berlioz actually finished and Homeless ...
    Quote: Akim
    Secretly, no one allocated specialists from the army.

    Yes Yes . Only you understand the order by personnel, the president’s signature under the list and the decree drawn through Congress, well, to the farmer through some sort of subcommittee. ETOGES are civilized states, icons of world legitimacy. laughing
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 10: 48
      +4
      Quote: avt
      Yes Yes . Only understand the personnel order, the president’s signature under the list and the decree held through Congress

      As a person who "played" in the army for ten years, I will say: I will not budge without an official piece of paper if the order contradicts the Constitution and the Charter. I am not obliged to carry out "evil orders".
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 13 August 2013 13: 04
        +5
        Quote: Akim
        As a person who "played" in the army for ten years, I will say: I will not budge without an official piece of paper if the order contradicts the Constitution and the Charter. I am not obliged to carry out "evil orders".

        These are your personal beliefs and principles ...
        But what if the essence of the order coincides with his inner convictions and the serviceman is sufficiently “unprincipled”? And the “order” in his view does not look “evil”. Are there few rabid nationalists in the ZSU?
      2. Akim
        Akim 13 August 2013 13: 28
        +2
        Quote: Corsair
        These are your personal beliefs and principles ...

        This is correct and by law. As a 4th year student, the colonel of the SBU threatened to put me in prison, because I, being on duty at the checkpoint, did not let him into the faculty without a pass. As a result ... I earned thanks from the head department. All ideological views in the army are left aside. Whether you are a nationalist or an internationalist - it quickly pops out in a closed collective. And if any unit commander goes against the law, there is always a special department. These are tales of secret orders to officers.
      3. Corsair
        Corsair 13 August 2013 13: 48
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        This is correct and by law.


        Quote: Akim
        All ideological views in the army are left aside.


        If only it were so simple ...
        In your reply, you will "half" the topic raised in the "comment"
      4. Akim
        Akim 13 August 2013 13: 56
        0
        Quote: Corsair
        If only it were so simple ...

        Yes? Or maybe there are examples? Or, when they built a dam on the Tuzla spit, we filtered, "who is for Russia, who is against." . Not. RTR and ORT channels simply deceived the general broadcast and transferred them to the category of cable.
    2. viktorR
      viktorR 13 August 2013 19: 42
      +4
      You are certainly well done that you didn’t miss the colonel, but when there is a command from the very top, then there will be a special and not a special department, everyone will dance as it should. And who will not (well, you never know, maybe one or two more like you are in ZSU), they will all the same be frozen.
    3. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 19: 48
      +1
      Quote: viktorR
      And who will not (well, you never know, maybe one or two more like you are in ZSU)

      Maybe that's why they let go quickly. Although I do not know such a case (already when I was an officer) in my team, so that if someone acts according to the law, he will be punished.
  • viktorR
    viktorR 13 August 2013 19: 40
    +3
    I hasten you (and us too smile ) disappoint, the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not consist of your clones)))
  • roial
    roial 13 August 2013 10: 55
    +2
    Only now you did not report that the Prosecutor General’s Office did not institute a single criminal case based on the results of the audit.

    Ukraine sold arms to Georgia quite legally, and there were no sanctions regarding sales of arms to Georgia. The presence of Ukrainian specialists is explained by the terms of the contract, no one refused.

    But the fact that they sat at the controls and pressed the buttons is YOUR imagination.

    With the same success, Russia can be accused of selling weapons to Azerbaijan, from which Armenians were subsequently killed (by the way, brotherly people), do you want to say that your experts were not there?
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 31
    +4
    Quote: Bongo
    The Prosecutor General’s Office conducted its own audit.

    and where is the data about what the Ukrainians shot !?
    We have many repair specialists from Ukraine who visited us at one time and helped, and often serviced the equipment themselves, Igor wrote about this as they were repairing helicopters!
    Start the war then it would be believed that the Ukrainians at the helm fought for us ???)))
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 13 August 2013 09: 51
    +9
    Quote: Bongo
    Yushchenko himself recognized the participation of Ukrainian calculations in hostilities.

    it's a lie!
    Give a link to his statement !!
  • Akim
    Akim 13 August 2013 10: 04
    +7
    Quote: Bongo
    What evidence? Yushchenko himself acknowledged the participation of Ukrainian calculations in hostilities.


    Announce the entire list please. Georgians also had Spiders. It turns out they were controlled by the Israelis?
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 10: 05
      +9
      I would not be surprised.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 23
      +8
      Quote: Akim
      Announce the entire list please. Georgians also had Spiders. It turns out they were controlled by the Israelis?

      You see, it’s a shame to get a real * Russian * star to get from a Georgian, he’s a * shopkeeper *, * watermelon *)))))
      and from the Ukrainian Slav and Israeli-world Zionist and * f and d * something more honorable))))))))))
  • avt
    avt 13 August 2013 09: 38
    12
    Quote: roma2
    Who cares whose weapon ??? By the way, the Russian side did not provide any evidence of the participation of Ukrainian settlements in this conflict.

    They were provided by the Ukrainian side in the parliamentary investigation of the deputy, and they even found and showed a specific who received the apartment for the war.
    Quote: roma2
    Dear, do not look for excuses for the incompetence of your generals, did you hope for an easy walk invading Georgia ????

    And here it is difficult to argue, especially after reading the article and the conclusions about the shortcomings in the use of aviation, the list of deplorable experts.
    Quote: Bongo
    Planning, communication, coordination between the military branches left much to be desired.

    To put it mildly, almost all the high-tech support from satellite reconnaissance to coordination of units is the work of our overseas likely friends, moreover, it was completely on the spot and it was foolish not to calculate this and take it into account in advance.
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 09: 44
      +9
      Fully agree with you!
  • biglow
    biglow 13 August 2013 09: 53
    +6
    Quote: roma2
    Dear, do not look for excuses for the incompetence of your generals, did you hope for an easy walk invading Georgia ????
    Who cares whose weapon ??? By the way, the Russian side did not provide any evidence of the participation of Ukrainian settlements in this conflict.

    Ukrainian officers who participated in this conflict and found were shown and they interviewed and told that they were not paid extra for business trips, everything was already there, you want to find it. Several people from Kremenchug were. All retired officers
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 10: 18
      0
      Quote: biglow
      Ukrainian officers who participated in this conflict and found showed

      I saw that "fake transfer" where there was still a conscript storekeeper, who was ordered to go to Georgia with a mechanized driver. Bullshit.
      1. Bongo
        13 August 2013 10: 22
        16
        I remember the same way that the then President of Ukraine Kuchma, foaming at the mouth, denied the defeat of the Russian Tu-200 C-154 complex to the Ukrainian missile.
        Ukrainian politicians lie when it comes to them with the same ease as Russian ones.
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 August 2013 10: 35
          +1
          Quote: Bongo
          I remember the same way that the then President of Ukraine Kuchma denied with foam at the mouth

          It is the politicians' job to deny everything. But in Ukraine everyone knew that this was the "work" of our anti-aircraft gunners, unfortunately. And people don't argue with that. We do not believe riding balabols, but prefer to analyze themselves.
        2. alone
          alone 13 August 2013 12: 43
          11
          Sergey, remember the year 1994 when the Russian Air Force bombed Chechnya before the official start of the Chechen company. But then, Russian officials also denied the participation of the Russian Air Force in the bombing and referred to unknown planes. This always happens.

          Ukrainian politicians lie when it comes to them with the same ease as Russian ones.

          All policies are for sale. The difference is in the price.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • beech
    beech 13 August 2013 11: 58
    +2
    you know better from China ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 12: 04
      +1
      Quote: beech
      you know better from China ...

      Of course, Chinese buckwheat was brought to us, well, I have Chinese electronics and a car. But these little things did not make Ukraine a territorially Chinese province.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 13 August 2013 12: 28
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        But these little things did not make Ukraine a territorially Chinese province.

        Matter of time. Although it’s more correct to call it simply a raw materials appendage (and not only of China), unfortunately ...
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 August 2013 13: 33
          +3
          Quote: Corsair
          .Although it is more correct to call just a raw materials appendage (and

          In Ukraine, there are few minerals and forests to trade in raw materials. Semi-finished products - I agree.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 13 August 2013 12: 03
    0
    Dear reality, it’s a bit more complicated than sitting at the computer and scrolling on the keyboard, by the way, how was 36D6-M destroyed?
  • Su24
    Su24 14 August 2013 01: 43
    +3
    Quote: roma2
    Dear, do not look for excuses for the incompetence of your generals, did you hope for an easy walk invading Georgia ????


    Russia did not invade Georgia, this time.
    To destroy air defense, you must first identify their position, these are two.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 14 August 2013 05: 13
    +1
    how did it not provide evidence? Yes, even on TV private footage was shown when our "strategist" was shot down, how we were drinking with the Georgians near the wreckage ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 14 August 2013 06: 23
      0
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      as they thumped with the Georgians near the wreckage ...


      CbWe sat and thumped in nature, but only the trees were still without leaves, and the journalist tied this plot to the downing of a scout. Be careful.
  • igor.borov775
    igor.borov775 14 August 2013 07: 23
    +4
    You are wrong and you don’t know what was going on in our troops, What high-precision weapons you are talking about even if there were no maps, What was and was used, Only thanks to our soldiers and officers the Georgians were punished, And most importantly, those in power finally woke up after this conflict looked at the ARMY, the training of troops began talking about rearmament, And another moment the amers and the Israelis prepared for these attacks worked out everything to the last detail, This is not an example, Georgia was preparing and we enjoyed mockery of our army, And when it all started here here it turned out that we had created with our army, We were not even ready for such a conflict and moved what was the most experienced part that had experience of fighting in Chechnya, Our army coped but our generals in Moscow had nothing to do with this, or relative, And to be honest I have to say Putin behaved like a real leader of the country did not sit out in MOSCOW and in BEIJING at the OLYMPIAD, AND YOU roma2 do not know anything about that m period of our history if you weave all rubbish excuse me
    1. mehmeh
      mehmeh 8 December 2014 11: 44
      0
      What kind of leader is he? What of the one about whom he says 25% is fulfilled.
      In the military-industrial complex, the mess is explained by reforms. They themselves in the Kremlin as separatists. what is desired is that which is not present as reality. credits are given to the probable opponent. Gas is supplied on credit. and the tales of the Viennese forest tell about old ties. and then you have to fight. here. How is it different from afghan? Great figures of modernity in general
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 13 August 2013 09: 50
    +3
    Quote: Bongo
    Your sarcasm is not appropriate, if it were not for deliveries of air defense missiles from Ukraine and the combat work of Ukrainian calculations, the Georgians would not be able to oppose anything to our aviation.

    Can you imagine the facts of the participation of Ukrainian settlements ??
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 09: 57
      +7
      Do you doubt that they were there? Or do you seriously think that the great Georgian specialists were able to master such a complex technique in the few months that have passed since the delivery of the Buks from Ukraine? According to my recollections from the times of the USSR, these hot southern guys showed themselves best of all by serving as grain growers and privateers. It is unlikely that they have become so gifted since then.
      1. alone
        alone 13 August 2013 10: 40
        +8
        Sergey, let me disagree with you! The moment of delivery of weapons does not mean that no one knows how to use them. Usually, before buying, a sufficient number of people are sent there, who are taught how to operate a complex system. I will give an example. The S-300PMU air defense systems acquired by Azerbaijan- 2 "Favorite"
        successfully operated on its own. even before the acquisition, dozens of officers completed their full studies in Russia and mastered this system perfectly. hi
        1. Bongo
          13 August 2013 10: 45
          +3
          In part, you are certainly right. The question is, do you guarantee that there are no Russian specialists in Azerbaijan who help to exploit this equipment, not necessarily the military?
          1. alone
            alone 13 August 2013 10: 54
            +7
            completely. all specialists are exclusively their own. besides with Russian diplomas of military universities
            1. Bongo
              13 August 2013 10: 58
              +4
              If so, respect and respect for Azerbaijanis. But it also speaks about the long-term preparation and study of the transaction. In addition, Russia has a good training base for training specialists. Can you also say about Ukraine?
              1. alone
                alone 13 August 2013 11: 01
                +6
                it’s hard to say about the s-300, but it’s quite possible about the beeches. It is possible that in Ukraine there is someone to teach how to manage the beech system.
                1. Bongo
                  13 August 2013 11: 08
                  +5
                  One way or another, but you will not deny the presence in Georgia during the conflict of foreign troops?
                  Why do we not know Georgian heroes who shot down "Russian hawks", perhaps because they were not there?
                  1. roial
                    roial 13 August 2013 11: 10
                    +7
                    You’d better discuss the reasons why the pilots weren’t shot by anyone under fire from beeches.
                  2. alone
                    alone 13 August 2013 11: 30
                    +6
                    I think this is a miscalculation of the Air Force command and the weakness of intelligence on the state of Georgian air defense. Ordinary negligence (maybe criminal) execution of one’s duties. Nothing more
                  3. mechanic driver
                    mechanic driver 13 August 2013 21: 43
                    +6
                    One hundred percent, criminal negligence, and their excuse was like the headquarters moved. And about the intelligence, the Georgians had more information, the connection was better, the equipment was newer and modernized, and they were better trained. And our potential friends helped in every way .
              2. alone
                alone 13 August 2013 11: 24
                +6
                I can’t say yes and no. In principle, in such conflicts, the participation of mercenaries is not excluded. Yes, and to be honest, I do not see heroism in it. The ordinary fulfillment of their duties as air defense could and would have known these heroes if they had won the war
              3. Yarbay
                Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 16
                +1
                Quote: Bongo
                Why we do not know Georgian heroes who shot down "Russian hawks", perhaps because they were not there

                you don’t know, because the propaganda))))))))))))
                It is not profitable for you to know this)
                As far as I know, the names of Georgian servicemen who shot down planes were given !!
                I don’t remember now!
              4. viktorR
                viktorR 13 August 2013 19: 51
                +5
                Yeah, I watched this Georgian program about a dzhigit on an ATV that he shot from a MANPADS (!) Tu-22m3 and not one, but a lot, I cried))) He described how they were shooting them) the scriptwriters of Hollywood nervously bit their nails, there such a blockbuster turned around ) Poleshche Rimbaud who from the bow beat the fake on the Mi-24)))
            2. igor67
              igor67 13 August 2013 12: 19
              +4
              Quote: Bongo
              One way or another, but you will not deny the presence in Georgia during the conflict of foreign troops?
              Why do we not know Georgian heroes who shot down "Russian hawks", perhaps because they were not there?

              Dial in YouTube, there’s a lot of video, Georgian, it’s just not correct to display it here, I don’t know if the pilots died there,
      2. viktorR
        viktorR 13 August 2013 19: 48
        +3
        And what universities do diplomas from Georgian anti-aircraft gunners not tell me?
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 20
      +2
      Quote: Bongo
      In part, you are certainly right. The question is, do you guarantee that there are no Russian specialists in Azerbaijan who help to exploit this equipment, not necessarily the military?

  • biglow
    biglow 13 August 2013 10: 28
    +2
    Quote: Yarbay
    Quote: Bongo
    Your sarcasm is not appropriate, if it were not for deliveries of air defense missiles from Ukraine and the combat work of Ukrainian calculations, the Georgians would not be able to oppose anything to our aviation.

    Can you imagine the facts of the participation of Ukrainian settlements ??

    what matters to a resident of Turkey before the participation of Ukrainians in this conflict?
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 17
      +1
      Quote: biglow
      what matters to a resident of Turkey before the participation of Ukrainians in this conflict?

      Direct !!!
      1. biglow
        biglow 13 August 2013 12: 40
        -2
        Quote: Yarbay
        Quote: biglow
        what matters to a resident of Turkey before the participation of Ukrainians in this conflict?

        Direct !!!

        good answer when there is nothing to say
        1. biglow
          biglow 13 August 2013 17: 23
          +2
          why minus the citizens of Turkey and Azerbaijan, is that all, where are the answers to the question? laughing
          1. biglow
            biglow 13 August 2013 19: 22
            -1
            as always there are no arguments, only emotions laughing
  • berimor
    berimor 13 August 2013 19: 21
    +8
    Is that really the question, if yes, if only once, the aviation had worked shitty. The mistakes are even more gross than in Egypt in 1970. Actually, these are not even mistakes !!!!! There is little to judge for such planning of aviation actions. Again, the complete inability of the managerial link to modern hostilities manifested itself. For a few days to lose so much aviation and so stupid !!!! A SHAME!!! Where was the intelligence, again an old disease - flying along one route, SIMPLY NO WORDS !!! I fought in Egypt and Syria and already wrote that our aircraft showed themselves to be worthless there, and after that, no matter how I fought with our generals from the aircraft, all for nothing. The main thing is that there should be no accidents. So forgot how to THINK before fighting! Not planning, but baby talk. So did not act already at the end of the Second World War, and this is the XNUMXst century. Brains turned into chaff. Although I live in Ukraine, I was terribly worried about the Russian army. They wanted to throw their hats, as always, but how it turned out ...
  • viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 13 August 2013 11: 59
    +6
    "showered with caps" an interesting statement and prove it? Compare numbers, analyze actions. After all, the number was approximately the same. And the actions can be assessed indirectly by the way the mouse ate a tie;)
  • igor.borov775
    igor.borov775 14 August 2013 06: 16
    +3
    You don’t have to be a cynic, the Georgians very accurately grasped the moment the war started, the Russian Ministry of Defense departed for rest, the operational leadership changed, the old chief resigned, the new one didn’t get on course, and repair and relocation started there at the top, liberals reigned at the very top, they fought together corruption, Then stubbornly imposed the opinion that the main robbers are in the Army, Remember how underfunding, disbandment of parts and equipment and equipment belonged to the army itself, And the means of the free press fought against the army as a whole, With such a press, the youth did not want to go to serve , After the collapse of the UNION, there was not a bit more or less normal training of the troops, Unfortunately, the mess of our reformers was added to this mess, we combine everything like the Air Force or we separate, Another moment not so long ago I looked at the box of the former commander in chief dedicated to this event, I was ashamed watch and listen to him, He did not talk about the soldiers and officers that participated in the war, so he mentioned the main thing for him is how he was experiencing bad feelings, that he made a decision, he cares,
  • smart ass
    smart ass 13 August 2013 08: 14
    -7
    In general, the RUSSIAN army has shown its best side in this conflict, there is something to be proud of
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 09: 11
      19
      On the best side, the soldiers and officers who directly participated in the hostilities showed themselves. Planning, communication, coordination between the different kinds of troops left much to be desired. For example, due to the inconsistency of actions, much of the damaged and lost our Su-25 were struck by our own MANPADS.
  • lazy
    lazy 13 August 2013 08: 15
    12
    on the organization of air raids, it would not be embarrassing to learn from the Israelis. I have the opinion that we have a service in the paddock. and if you don’t give out military secrets, then how many helicopters of jammers and planes are left in our aircraft?
  • roma2
    roma2 13 August 2013 08: 22
    20
    THAN????
    A bunch of accidents and non-combat losses,
    Complete inability to organize a communication and control system (for guiding aircraft and adjusting art fire, the commanders of mobile units went directly to the pilots and artilleryman),
    They threw aviation into a stupid area with an unpressed air defense system with ordinary bombs, where, by the way, are so highly advertised precision weapons?
    Complete absence of REP and REP
    Low rear support.

    Although it is worth paying tribute to the fact that in such difficult (but familiar) conditions of the lack of normal control and support, the army has shown that it is able to fulfill the task.
    1. smart ass
      smart ass 13 August 2013 12: 38
      +3
      And what am I saying, in general, the task was completed, well done ... For 5 days they drove away ... There are a lot of errors, I can not argue, but the result is important.
  • Crang
    Crang 13 August 2013 08: 26
    +6
    Yes ... Where did that courage of WW2 and Korea go when ours killed the enemy as they wanted. Practice shows that we are able to build the latest aircraft and systems that ensure their effective use, but for some reason we have not learned to fight on them. This has already been shown by the Arab-Israeli wars. Something did not shine there. That's the same with Georgia. We won, of course we won, but somehow without satisfaction. Stupidly crushed. It should be admitted that our Air Force today is one of the least combat-ready types of the Armed Forces (well, maybe after the fleet). This is apparently facilitated by poor training of pilots and command personnel, the lack of the pilots' skills for a "big war" with an enemy with a modern air defense system. Well, the outdated aircraft fleet also affects. By their number, we are very much behind the United States. As a result, in the war with Georgia, we lost 6 aircraft, against 3 lost tanks (although there were an order of magnitude more tanks!). We need to improve.
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 10: 07
      +1
      Quote: Krang
      The Arab-Israeli wars have already shown this.


      Only the Six Day War was a disaster. And so, Arab aviation and air defense acted well.
      1. Crang
        Crang 13 August 2013 20: 04
        +3
        You are a little insincere. Only Air defense worked well.
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 August 2013 20: 09
          +1
          Quote: Krang
          Only the air defense functioned well.

          I will not deny it. At that time I was not even on fortune-telling cards. And modern sources provide different information.
    2. Witold
      Witold 14 August 2013 22: 44
      0
      Your comment resembles this picture.
  • AlNick
    AlNick 13 August 2013 08: 29
    +4
    Ho
    In total, during the combat operations, the Russian Air Force lost three Su-25, two Su-24 and one Tu-22М3. It was also established that after the end of the conflict, a plane crash occurred in South Ossetia - two Mi-8MTKO and Mi-24 helicopters crashed. Perhaps part of the attack aircraft was struck by "friendly fire."

    In spite of the losses, the Russian aviation was able to accomplish all the tasks set, but at the same time, an analysis of the actions of the Air Force during this war forces us to seriously consider and draw some unpleasant conclusions. And the main one is that the Air Force is not fully ready to fully engage in combat operations under the conditions of countering modern air defense. In addition, given the weak immunity of their similar air defense systems (first of all, the RTV radar and military electronic defense system installations are not ready to repel modern means of air attack. When countering modern enemy air defense systems, combat losses will be significantly higher.


    I wanted the best, it turned out how ...
    The collapse of the army and the Air Force in particular does not pass without a trace.
  • roma2
    roma2 13 August 2013 08: 29
    +1
    In the USSR, pilots received combat experience in various business trips such as Korea, Egypt and so on. could be sent with a dozen and Syria to obtain one.
  • zadorin1974
    zadorin1974 13 August 2013 09: 17
    +5
    our headache and talented leadership drove the army to a foolishness - we leave as usual on number and patriotism. When will it reach us all the same?
  • Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 13 August 2013 09: 24
    13
    cool article! the analysis is good but not complete!
    This military conflict showed our inability to interact with the various branches of the armed forces. This topic was so well described in his film by Sladkov when he showed how our soldiers fired on a pilot with a parachute, and then it turned out that he hadn’t shot his own. Knowing about the enemy’s air defense, they didn’t take measures to eliminate it, where is our precision weapon? Over the past years, it seems to me that our hopes, as always, at random! Fortunately, the enemy was not so strong.
    Eternal memory to all our wars who died in this conflict!
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 09: 36
      +7
      Thanks for the praise!
      But even now, it is not so easy to find reliable information about those events in open sources. There are a lot of "husks" and outright lies, especially from our officials. Georgians, however, do not lag behind here either. He relied on facts, the reliability of which raises the least doubts, if you can, which I will be glad to add.

      As for high-precision weapons, the satellite photos and the quantitative use chart, which is in the article, show that the share of the WTO in our aviation is steadily decreasing. Soviet stocks are coming to an end, and the new is not made.
      1. Argon
        Argon 13 August 2013 11: 52
        -7
        I fully agree about the reliability of the information, however, the question arises, where does the "exact" data on the Erefi losses come from?
        1. viktorR
          viktorR 13 August 2013 20: 02
          +4
          Do you live in Russia at all? Can you call yourself Russian? What is "Erefi". What a disrespect for your own country and your own losses. That is, the soldiers performed their duty to the fatherland, and you call them "Erefi" losses? This is normal? Nobody will respect us until we respect ourselves. Oscarbing them, you insult yourself and your relatives and friends and your fathers and grandfathers who gave their lives so that you could exist now.
          I express you my disrespect, personally to you.
    2. viktorR
      viktorR 13 August 2013 19: 57
      0
      Well 36d6 It’s just the same with the anti-radar missile and they froze during EW with the Su-34
      1. Crang
        Crang 13 August 2013 21: 06
        0
        It's good that at least the Su-34 was not shot down. What a shame it would be ... The so-called "show-effect". Thank God nothing happened.
  • Rus_87
    Rus_87 13 August 2013 09: 29
    0
    And why the article does not mention the use of the Su-34?
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 09: 45
      +4
      Do you have information about their participation?
      1. Rus_87
        Rus_87 13 August 2013 10: 46
        +1

        In no case do I say that this is a 100% proven fact, but they say so ...
        1. Bongo
          13 August 2013 10: 53
          +1
          The Su-34 is still very "raw", but what can we say about those times?
        2. old man54
          old man54 14 August 2013 01: 37
          +1
          Quote: Rus_87
          In no case do I say that this is 100% proven fact, but they say so.

          Russia had 1 Su-34 as far back as the 2004 year, I know for sure, and what, during the 4 years, not a single one was built anymore ?? laughing Rave!!
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 14 August 2013 01: 44
            +3
            On December 15, 2006, the first 2 Su-34s were transferred to the Russian Air Force. The aircraft with tail number “01” entered the 929th GLITs to continue state tests.
            On August 3, 2007, the board number "02" was adopted as part of the Lipetsk Pulp and Paper Mill and PLC.
            In December 2008, Air Force “03” was handed over to the Air Force.
            On December 19, 2009, another 2 Su-34s were received - tail numbers “04” and “05”.
            On December 20, 2010, 4 more bombers were handed over (the first 4 of 32, under a 2008 contract)
            On December 10, 2011, the western military district adopted 6 Su-34s.
            December 28, 2012 the western military district (Baltimore air base) 5 Su-34. [17]
            January 25, 2013 the western military district (Baltimore air base) 5 Su-34.
            May 6, 2013 received the first aircraft release in 2013 from the planned 14 for this year.
            July 9, 2013 received 3 Su-34.
            At the beginning of 2012, the Russian Ministry of Defense signed a contract with Sukhoi for the supply of 92 Su-34s until 2020, in addition to the already concluded contract for 32 aircraft. In 2013, the delivery of 14 Su-34s is expected. For the first time, the Su-34 was used during the war in South Ossetia (2 Su-34s). The plane was used to cover the actions of strike aircraft, conducting electronic warfare with Georgian air defense systems. To suppress the RES, the Su-34 interfered with the battle formations, which did not allow the Georgian air defense system to successfully detun from the interference. On the most dangerous radar systems of the Buk and S-125 air defense systems, the Su-34 attacked with anti-radar missiles [25] [26] The Su-34 group defense active jamming container showed high efficiency during combat operations [25]. During combat use, the Su-34 destroyed the key Georgian 36D6-M radar near the village of Shavshvebi near Gori [.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 14 August 2013 01: 45
              +3
              .............................................
              1. studentmati
                studentmati 14 August 2013 01: 56
                +3
                Famous video: Misha messed up on camera ...
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 14 August 2013 02: 01
                  +1
                  Apparently he recalled another proud ruler of wolves. He forgot that the Russians and bulls were being driven into cans! The list goes on.
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 14 August 2013 02: 01
                    0
                    ..........................................
                    1. studentmati
                      studentmati 14 August 2013 02: 06
                      0
                      Misha relaxed and as a boy (why how? A kid boy) believed in the tales of the good uncle Sema (who has his own mercantile interests). At the same time, he struck out from his head that he was responsible for a nation with a thousand-year history!
                    2. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 14 August 2013 02: 09
                      +2
                      Russian pilot Su-25SM (Su-25) works on targets in Georgia
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 14 August 2013 02: 12
                        +2
                        Su-25 in Ossetia, the story of the pilot.
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 14 August 2013 02: 15
                        +2
                        Combat mission in South Ossetia.
                      3. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 14 August 2013 02: 24
                        +2
                        .................
                      4. studentmati
                        studentmati 14 August 2013 02: 35
                        +2
                        The decision about a direct clash was the only right one! Enough of ceremonies and persuasion !!!
                  2. studentmati
                    studentmati 14 August 2013 02: 20
                    +1
                    Thank you, Sash! You are as always on top! I saw the launch of the Torah. Installation? Or were they already there?
                  3. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 14 August 2013 02: 31
                    0
                    Sanya about the complex of TOR at the Georgians did not hear. http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?tabID=320&ItemID=269
                    • xnumx & wversion = staging
                  4. studentmati
                    studentmati 14 August 2013 02: 39
                    +4
                    They didn't have a Torah - that's for sure. Video editing. But the fact that the "Saakashvils" skillfully and confidently worked "Wasp" is a fact ... sad
                  5. old man54
                    old man54 14 August 2013 16: 23
                    0
                    Quote: studentmati
                    But the fact that the "Saakashvils" skillfully and confidently worked "Wasp" is a fact ...

                    But can the details be, if not difficult of course? hi
          2. old man54
            old man54 14 August 2013 16: 47
            +1
            Thanks for the video Alexander! And why is the video track repeated many times in it ?? There are essentially two small episodes, but they were duplicated 15 times for 10 minutes.
            And how was it filmed, are there a full-time camera, through the scope, or what? repeat
        3. Yarbay
          Yarbay 14 August 2013 08: 11
          +2
          Quote: Alex 241
          ..........................................

          born to crawl, will not be able to fly!
          I wrote about this before, in many respects, the successful actions of Chechen fighters in the first Chechen war were caused by Dudayev’s confident and calm behavior! When he spoke, he always had a feeling that he was very strong and still had some kind of secret trump card!
          But Saakashvili publicly crap one's pants and after that it would be unfair to blame for something!
          1. old man54
            old man54 14 August 2013 16: 27
            +3
            Quote: Yarbay
            In many respects, the successful actions of the Chechen fighters in the first Chechen war were due to Dudayev’s confident and calm behavior! When he spoke, he always had a feeling that he was very strong and still had some sort of secret trump card!

            Well, what do you want, a person has appropriate education, vast experience and experience in serving in the strategic aviation of the USSR, experience in the division command. You see, what kind of teachers he had ... and this ... boy with an American university diploma. lol
  • old man54
    old man54 14 August 2013 16: 34
    +3
    Impressive awareness and information handling, Alexander! Thank you for supporting! I'm not as close to aviation and the air force as you are, but I know something. wink Yes, it is possible that the 1th board of the Su-34 was only operational in the 2006, I don’t know, but I know for sure that the machine started factory tests in March / April of 2004! Ready to sign it right! Apparently 2 years tested and practiced it. hi
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 13 August 2013 09: 54
    0
    *** The Georgian "know-how" was to equip the MANPADS calculations with ATVs, which significantly increased their mobility and made it possible to quickly change firing positions. *** - and what is the know-how ??

    Wash it is not very effective!
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 10: 01
      +4
      The Georgians themselves are presented precisely as "know-how" and a great achievement.
  • Akim
    Akim 13 August 2013 10: 10
    -1
    Quote: Rus_87
    not mentioned the use of Su-34?

    Because it is a myth.
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 10: 13
      +5
      Even now, after 5 years, the existing Su-34 is mostly non-existent.
      For the released cars there is no uniform technical documentation, different wiring and equipment installation. There are constant renders of avionics.
      1. alone
        alone 13 August 2013 10: 31
        -4
        chasing quads on planes is not know-how, but ordinary stupidity. the result of the work of such groups is a waste of fuel, nothing more.
        1. Bongo
          13 August 2013 10: 33
          +5
          Nobody was chasing the planes on quad quads. But as a means of increasing mobility, it is quite the place to be. By your logic, mobile SIRK stupidity?
          1. alone
            alone 13 August 2013 10: 46
            0
            No, I didn’t say that mobile air defense systems were stupid. I said that using such groups was stupid. And how did these groups justify themselves? Could they bring down something? No. All the planes were shot down by beeches or by their own. except waste of fuel.
            1. Bongo
              13 August 2013 10: 54
              +3
              In SA, the calculations of MANPADS on UAZ vehicles moved than quadrics worse?
              1. alone
                alone 13 August 2013 10: 58
                +2
                result))) downed aircraft-0
                1. Bongo
                  13 August 2013 11: 04
                  +3
                  Yes, you're right, the Russian MANPADS svaih shot down more. But do not forget about the stamina and quality of the soldiers. As a means of increasing the mobility of calculations, MANPADS quadrics are not completely bad.
                  1. alone
                    alone 13 August 2013 11: 13
                    +4
                    preparation of the wildlife is of great importance. apparently there were problems
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 56
                    0
                    Quote: Bongo
                    As a means of increasing the mobility of calculations, MANPADS quadrics are not bad at all.


                    I do not agree!
                    In Ca, all the same, they counted on massive air raids !!
                    I think the Oise were used as a means of delivery to a certain hard-to-reach paradise, and it was not massively!
                    and here I can’t imagine why in Georgia calculations ATVs ??
                    He will chase the plane or after a shot or detection he will try to hide from the plane ????))
                    what kind of mobility are we talking about?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 13 August 2013 13: 06
                      +5
                      If the ATVs are good, not "SUVs", then for the wooded foothills, that's it. Needed to take a normal position.
                    2. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 13 August 2013 13: 18
                      +1
                      Quote: Spade
                      If the ATVs are good, not "SUVs", then for the wooded foothills, that's it. Needed to take a normal position.

                      I agree!
                      Only for delivery !!
                    3. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 13 August 2013 13: 46
                      +2
                      U of course, not ATV-based MANPADS.

                      If there are mountains, then there is a limited number of routes along which helicopters and aircraft will go to the area of ​​combat use. So that they are not "burned" ahead of time.
                      If there is a route, then it should be blocked by the calculation of MANPADS, while providing him with protection, because the enemy should ironly clear these routes.
                      And a bunch of cross-country vehicle + ATV can best deliver all this economy to the place.
        2. berimor
          berimor 13 August 2013 19: 52
          +6
          You are absolutely wrong if not to say not literate! The experience of military operations in Egypt and in Syria of our 18th anti-aircraft missile system showed the high efficiency of MANPADS, although they also didn’t have a lot of them. And quickly maneuvering with these calculations is also very important, they did it on the GAZ-69 (ATVs were not in use at that time), but in fact the main task of these calculations was to force the Israeli aviation to rise as high as possible in order to detect it as far as possible from our S-125 air defense systems.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 13 August 2013 12: 50
      0
      Quote: lonely
      chasing quads on planes is not know-how, but ordinary stupidity. the result of the work of such groups is a waste of fuel, nothing more.

      And I about it dear Omar!
      I don’t know what kind of d and oh t-it came up, at least I would ascribe to someone else an idea)))))
      and so the manufacturer of ATVs was probably satisfied))
      1. alone
        alone 13 August 2013 12: 57
        +1
        drank dough dear Alibek)))
  • viktorR
    viktorR 13 August 2013 20: 06
    0
    And is there any data that suppressed 36d6?
  • old man54
    old man54 14 August 2013 00: 37
    +2
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: Rus_87
    not mentioned the use of Su-34?

    Because it is a myth.

    sorry, but writes nonsense, not based not start! It so happened that I live in the city where Su-34 is assembled, I have personal connections with people who, on behalf of Chkalov, manage the assembly and commissioning processes. They definitely told me, according to internal service docs, that it was the 2 Su-34 with high-precision weapons that did not enter the Georgian air defense zone, made a rustle there! The cars were kind of from Lipetsk, with very trained pilots of course, but this does not change the essence! It seems that they flew more than once, but a couple!
  • roma2
    roma2 13 August 2013 09: 45
    +2
    Quote: avt
    They were provided by the Ukrainian side in the parliamentary investigation of the deputy, and they even found and showed a specific who received the apartment for the war.


    The investigation ended in zilch besides allegations of dismissed servicemen, not a single fact was presented
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 10: 07
      +4
      And who needs it, especially in Ukraine?
      1. Akim
        Akim 13 August 2013 10: 21
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        And who needs it, especially in Ukraine?


        The then opposition in the form of the Party of Regions.
        1. Bongo
          13 August 2013 10: 24
          +2
          Then, quite possibly, only now they don’t remember about it either.
          1. Akim
            Akim 13 August 2013 10: 38
            +3
            Quote: Bongo
            only now they don’t remember that either.


            What for? Eat Yusch and so left. And Konovalyuk is an odious politician. Only one of his statements about the attack with stolen nuts on the railway track is worth a lot.
            1. Bongo
              13 August 2013 10: 42
              +3
              I don’t know about the nuts, but the information about the supply of weapons and the presence of Ukrainian specialists in the combat zone has played a role in the discourse of Yushchenko.
              And the current is simply not necessary.
              1. Akim
                Akim 13 August 2013 10: 56
                +2
                Quote: Bongo
                I don’t know about nuts

                That's it. You know what they give you. Look for a train disaster when Konovalyuk was the Minister of Transport.
                1. Corsair
                  Corsair 14 August 2013 03: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  That's it. You know what they give you. Look for a train disaster when Konovalyuk was the Minister of Transport.

                  Quote from folk art:
                  "Somewhere they fuck me, but I don't understand where"
                  request
                  Konovalyuk Valery Ilyich.

                  Born on August 31 1966 in Donetsk.

                  Higher education.

                  In 1989, he graduated from the Moscow Higher Command School.
                  In 1993, he graduated from the German Finance Academy (Munich) with a degree in economics.


                  Doctor of Economic Sciences. Academician of the Academy of Economic Sciences of Ukraine. Honored Economist of Ukraine.
                  He was awarded the Order of Merit of the second and third degrees.

                  Non-partisan.

                  Professional experience:

                  1989 - 1992 - Officer of the Western Group of Forces (Germany).
                  1992 - 1994 - Director of Ukrenergoresurs JSC.
                  Since 1995 - Deputy Chairman of the Kuibyshev District Executive Committee of Donetsk on planning, finance and budget.
                  In 1995, Mr .. - created and headed the People's Patriotic Union of Donbass.
                  1996 - 1998 - Advisor to the Chairman, Deputy Chairman of the Donetsk Regional State Administration.

                  Since 1998 of the year - People’s Deputy of Ukraine. He was twice elected to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine in the majority district (65 of thousands of votes). In 1999, he joined the Party of Regions.
                  In 2005, he headed the Labor Ukraine party, which in 2007 merged with the Party of Regions. For a long time he was a member of the Presidium of the Political Council of the Party of Regions.

                  People's Deputy of Ukraine of the III, IV and VI convocations. He was the first deputy head of the Budget Committee of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine; Chairman of the subcommittee on budget program planning and control over the use of budget funds in health protection of the Health Committee.

                  The author of a number of bills submitted by the subject of the law of legislative initiative. In particular, “On Amendments to the Budget Code of Ukraine”; “On state financial control”; “On the Rules of Procedure of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine”; “On the State Treasury of Ukraine”; “On financing of health protection and compulsory social health insurance in Ukraine”, etc.

                  In the summer of 2009, he was elected Chairman of the All-Ukrainian Union of Servicemen and Veterans of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

                  In June 2010, by Decree No. 719 / 2010, he was appointed Advisor to the President of Ukraine (outside the state).

                  In August, 2010 became Chairman of the Board of the Ukraine-China Business Council and was included in the Intergovernmental Ukrainian-Chinese Commission on Trade and Economic Cooperation.

                  The author of 20 scientific papers and 150 bills.

                  Master of Sports in Judo. He headed the Judo Federation of Donetsk region.

                  Married. First wife Valeria - journalist, author of television programs.
                  In October 2012, he married a second time. From the first marriage, the politician has two children - daughter Eugene (born 1993) and son Vladislav (born 1996).

                  KONOVALUK NEVER BEEN A MINISTER OF TRANSPORT!
                  (if you do not agree - I am waiting for your arguments)

                  http://www.konovaluk.com/ru/biography/
                  P \ S: Who are your comments for?
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 14 August 2013 06: 49
                    +1
                    Sorry. He got around. My mother told me not to go into politics, anyway, you don’t understand shit there. I confused him with Rudkovsky in a conversation about the Minister of Transport. The muzzles are similar.
                    1. Corsair
                      Corsair 14 August 2013 17: 29
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      I confused him with Rudkovsky in a conversation about the Minister of Transport. The muzzles are similar.

                      Как ZAZ и PORSCHE repeat
  • Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 13 August 2013 10: 30
    +1
    Thanks for the debriefing! ..
  • valokordin
    valokordin 13 August 2013 10: 37
    +2
    Once again, make sure gouging, the inability to fight as it should, all this leads to losses. Take the experience of Israel and Jewish Ukrainians.
  • Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 13 August 2013 11: 06
    0
    In Georgian "crocodile" the word "dangerous" is written in Russian. Or not all "mimino" Georgian know or the pilots are not quite Georgians!
    1. Bongo
      13 August 2013 11: 13
      +5
      The main part of the Georgian pilots and technicians were prepared in the USSR.
  • Xoxoxnumxun
    Xoxoxnumxun 13 August 2013 11: 43
    10
    Let me introduce my 5 kopecks into the general discussion.
    As can be seen from the article, the war in Georgia highlighted 3 problems of Russian aviation:
    1. Outdated technology.
    2. Akhovy planning and coordination of actions between various divisions.
    3. Poor preparedness of pilots.

    And immediately caustic remarks appeared here, but for some reason no one says that they saw the problems and solve them.

    1. The renewal of the fleet of aircraft and helicopters took up seriously.
    2. Even this resource is replete with reports of ongoing exercises. Moreover, as large-scale with the involvement of different branches of the army, up to the FSO. I’m not talking about local exercises. And these exercises should improve the quality of commanding personnel in terms of planning skills and coordinate the actions of various arms and services.
    3. Let me remind you that in those days, the raid of Russian pilots in military aviation was deplorably small. Something there in the region of 40-50 hours per year. Now over 100 hours are already flying. And here you begin to compare with the Israeli army, which in addition to flying hours in 180 has real experience in the use of aircraft in combat conditions.

    IMHO. And just after that conflict, the authorities still looked at the army differently. It dawned on their highbrow heads that "partnership" is one thing, and when there is a modern and combat-ready army behind you, beautiful and smiling, then contracts are signed more dexterously and conditions are sweeter. Here the dust was blown off the army. Not everyone really understood this yet, but nothing - this understanding will come.

    And before business in aviation. You know, Pokryshkin is my idol in this business. who read his "Sky of War" he will understand. This guy was not a gift, both in relation to the Germans and to his own. The book describes in detail how they prepared themselves, how they trained the youth. Tactical exercises were conducted, firing, what formation is better to fly, at what height, how to approach the target. After each fight, practically debriefing, etc. etc. This is how the Aesir are born and nothing else. In Korea, this backlog worked. If my memory serves me, then in Korea the veteran of the Great Patriotic War Kozhedub also shot down amers. And this was the same master. I would say he owned his plane. as not every violinist has his own violin. He and Pokryshkin, one might say, performed symphonies in the sky, although they did not fight together in the same unit, but the German aces knew their names well. There was a moment in the book that Pokryshkin was forbidden to use his callsign at one time, otherwise do the Germans understand in advance "Akhtung!" they started screaming.
  • viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 13 August 2013 11: 45
    +1
    "The Georgian know-how was to equip MANPADS crews with off-road ATVs, which significantly increased their mobility and made it possible to quickly change firing positions." very interesting by the way.

    "The ground air defense of units of the 58th Russian army, which entered into battle with Georgian troops on the territory of South Ossetia, consisted of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns ZSU-23-4 Shilka, ZRPK 2K22 Tunguska, and portable anti-aircraft missile systems. paratroopers, in addition to MANPADS, there were self-propelled anti-aircraft guns BTR-ZD "Grinding" with anti-aircraft guns ZU-23 "that is, almost nothing.
  • dizelniy
    dizelniy 13 August 2013 11: 48
    +5
    No conclusions were made. The reform of the Air Force of Serdyukov-Medvedev-Putin finished off morale and combat capabilities by finally transferring it to a crowded base, lack of infrastructure, apartments, laid bare whole regions without air cover. Now, after exercises in the east, they will rebuild airfields. I'd like to ask why you broke everything when the professionals shouted, it’s impossible. There is no announced concept of the development of the country and the armed forces, ill-conceived decisions, some kind of leadershipism and no one to answer. The personnel policy in the leadership of the Armed Forces of the country is carried out on the principle of loyalty, whoever objects .... Sadly.
  • USNik
    USNik 13 August 2013 12: 07
    +5
    In general, something happened that was not part of the plans of the Georgian leadership, which for some reason hoped that Russia would not seriously fight for the Ossetians, limiting itself to diplomatic protests, economic sanctions and, possibly, “symbolic” actions of aviation.

    That’s exactly what President Medvedev wanted to do, everything was ready to drain, but the GDP had a different opinion, and there was a commotion; intelligence overslept the supply of the latest air defense systems from Ukraine, complete confusion with the strength and strength of troops
    A long list of aircraft parts should not be misleading. Often from the composition of the units indicated here in the combat zone there were single vehicles.
    The passage of the main strike group through the Roki tunnel was a pure gamble - undermining it would put an end to a quick resolution of the conflict. A lot of questions are caused by the planning of operations and the children's mistakes made in this case, the Googleography of the bombing of the Scamredia airfield across the GDP and a bunch of gaps "past the cash desk" confirm this. The abundance of lieutenant colonels and majors on the sides of the downed equipment causes bewilderment, there is no one else to fly?
    In general, for me the conflict of 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX is more like some kind of theater of the absurd, rather than a planned reflection of aggression. True, the passivity of the then president suggests unpleasant thoughts. what
    But as they say, whoever comes to us with a sword will come back with a handle in his ass.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 13 August 2013 13: 29
      +1
      Quote: USNik
      That’s exactly what President Medvedev wanted to do, everything was ready to drain, but the GDP had a different opinion, and there was a commotion; intelligence overslept the supply of the latest air defense systems from Ukraine, complete confusion with the strength and strength of troops

      According to him, Putin did not bother insulting the head of Georgia.
      “When the situation was tense, I called President Dmitry Medvedev, but Putin took the phone and told me to deal with him. Then I told him that the EU, OSCE and the United States were sharply criticizing Russia for escalating tensions in the separatist regions of Georgia, and he said ironically that there are a lot of papers with statements and asked to shove these papers in one place, and said so directly, I was certainly taken aback, "the President of Georgia said frankly.)))))))))
      Quote: USNik
      The passage of the main strike group through the Roki tunnel was a pure gamble - undermining it would put an end to a quick resolution of the conflict. A lot of questions are caused by the planning of operations and the children's mistakes made in this case, the Googleography of the bombing of the Scamredia airfield across the GDP and a bunch of gaps "past the cash desk" confirm this. The abundance of lieutenant colonels and majors on the sides of the downed equipment causes bewilderment, there is no one else to fly?
      Everything was planned and there was confidence that the rock tunnel would not be blown up!
      If you saw the hourly chronicle of what the Georgian army was doing, then this is not only an absurdity theater, but an attempt to fail as soon as possible))
  • silver_roman
    silver_roman 13 August 2013 12: 25
    +5
    Kapets, the war zone was piloted by majors and lieutenant colonels. this is not conceivable at all.
    they would have put the Minister of Defense there.
    although in fact one major is much more valuable than the Minister of Defense of that time!
    1. alone
      alone 13 August 2013 12: 46
      +6
      Can you imagine? The work of lieutenants was performed by senior officers.
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 13 August 2013 13: 37
        +1
        that's it. Earlier, the rank of major could be obtained extremely difficult, but now a man at the age of 40 is already a colonel and this is not so rare.
        For example, Yuri Gagarin was a major, and he received it when he returned from space, because the first man in space with the rank of senior lieutenant .... not solid somehow!
    2. old man54
      old man54 14 August 2013 00: 54
      +3
      Quote: silver_roman
      Kapets, the war zone was piloted by majors and lieutenant colonels. this is not conceivable at all.

      Apparently there was a lack of trained riders in the shelves, not for take-off / landing, but for the database! And what do you want, before that 10 years, IA almost did not fly, they did not give kerosene to them.
      Quote: silver_roman
      they would have put the Minister of Defense there.

      good laughing
      Quote: silver_roman
      although in fact one major is much more valuable than the Minister of Defense of that time

      yes, then already, from 2007 of the year, smerdyukov was a minister. It was necessary to push him into that Tu-22М3, although the operator.
      It was striking that the very first shot down our pilot on the Su-25 - lieutenant colonel, and by position Deputy KMSka! Although everyone knows that the lieutenant colonel is the rank of commander of a squadron. It turns out that we already have colonels commanding squadrons or something ??
  • Strashila
    Strashila 13 August 2013 12: 29
    +3
    When they say that Georgia was at war with Russia, it is tantamount to say that Serbia was at war with purely Kosovo. Russia was actually at war with NATO, its instructors taught the Georgians and used its equipment. Let's not forget about the NATO electronic systems that were stationed in Turkey and the NATO naval ships in the Black Sea ... they clearly observed "neutrality", well, they did not help the poor and frightened Georgians. And the US space group, out of pure curiosity, examined the region through all that was possible ... and so the same observed "neutrality" in coordination of the Georgian troops ... after all, the Georgians have a "powerful space group" ... which will provide intelligence and communications on my own ... purely without outside help.
    1. alone
      alone 13 August 2013 12: 53
      +4
      Russia actually fought with NATO, its instructors were taught by Georgians and its equipment was used

      instructors and equipment do not yet say that Russia fought with NATO. to cooperate with NATO is one thing, but to be a member of NATO is completely different. The low combat efficiency of the Georgian army is not due to the fact that NATO was weak or Georgians ignorant. The defeat of Georgia is that the leadership She didn’t assess the real state of affairs and overestimated the capabilities of the state. It is clear that in 2-3 years the time is too short to create a real combat-ready army. This requires years and enormous resources. This is the reason for the defeat of Georgia as a whole.
  • Gecko
    Gecko 13 August 2013 12: 32
    -7
    I didn’t understand something. Is it a Russian patriotic site or Ukrainian? All the disadvantages of the Russian users, and the pros of the Ukrainians, what kind of garbage. am
    1. Neksel
      Neksel 13 August 2013 12: 46
      +3
      Because people are in no hurry to shout "Hurray!" just.
      Ukrainians say things here, here they get more advantages
      on this topic, what does the nationality of the authors of the comments have to do with it?
      1. Gecko
        Gecko 13 August 2013 12: 49
        -1
        Do not flatter ... It's just not yet evening ... in Russia
        1. Neksel
          Neksel 13 August 2013 12: 55
          +7
          Quote: gecko
          Do not flatter ... It's just not yet evening ... in Russia


          it depends where :) the country is not small.
          In Vladivostok, for example, already at 20:00 pm.
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 13 August 2013 13: 33
          +3
          Quote: gecko
          Do not flatter ... It's just not yet evening ... in Russia


          We will sing all together near Moscow evenings)))

        3. Corneli
          Corneli 13 August 2013 13: 41
          +9
          Quote: gecko
          Do not flatter ... It's just not yet evening ... in Russia

          But in Ukraine right now, how much do you think?) And Russia is big, it’s already evening somewhere)
          P.S. And yes, I didn’t notice that Ukrainian commentators were talking nonsense (unlike some Russian ones, at least I haven’t seen it yet), maybe that’s why they didn’t minus? Or should they minus on the flag? Like reading is not necessary?
    2. alone
      alone 13 August 2013 13: 07
      11
      Dear, just yesterday someone at the forum stated that the GDP arrives in Azerbaijan on the ships of the Caspian flotilla and this means that Azerbaijan falls under the control of Russia. They put 20 pieces there. Those who put the pluses did not even check the information that the ships Yesterday they moored at the Baku port, and the GDP arrived today. It's still a military forum, not a bunch of cheers-patriots. A patriot is not a patriot of his homeland, but rather an enemy disguised. With respect
    3. washi
      washi 13 August 2013 13: 50
      +4
      Because the Russian generals really burst. But Ukrainians and Israelis tested their equipment in battle. Amer controlled.
      Conclusions: or we have equipment and hp bad ones, or (much worse) our leadership. He does not know how to manage troops in modern conditions. For very large losses do not reward, but it is necessary to plant.
      On June 24, 1941 Rychagov was arrested and then shot in October. Because By this time, conclusions had already been made about the preparation of the Air Force, which he had been in charge of until January 1941 (the pilot was trained for more than a month or two, and therefore the analysis of the actions of the Air Force took a long time).
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 13 August 2013 13: 56
        +4
        Quote: Vasya
        Because the Russian generals really burst. But Ukrainians and Israelis tested their equipment in battle. Amer controlled.
        Conclusions: or we have equipment and hp bad ones, or (much worse) our leadership. He does not know how to manage troops in modern conditions. For very large losses do not reward, but it is necessary to plant.
        On June 24, 1941 Rychagov was arrested and then shot in October. Because By this time, conclusions had already been made about the preparation of the Air Force, which he had been in charge of until January 1941 (the pilot was trained for more than a month or two, and therefore the analysis of the actions of the Air Force took a long time).

        In the first Leverage, the hero of the Spanish war and not his fault that he jumped from senior lieutenant to lieutenant general in three years.
        Ukrainian technology is absolutely similar to Russian. From the same factories. And about the Israeli air defense systems, I'm generally at a loss. Some say they were and were even captured, others that were and showed themselves well, others that stood in the hangars because there were no calculations. Well, what to believe?
  • alone
    alone 13 August 2013 13: 26
    +7
    The reconnaissance Tu-22М3 also had a bomb load. He had to evaluate the results of the bombings and, if necessary, deliver additional strikes. Anti-aircraft defenses in the area were not expected.

    read the last sentence. it’s obvious that some people didn’t fulfill their direct duties. They sent the group to the bombing, and the presence of air defense forces in the area was not checked. What led to the loss of the plane. And if the enemy were stronger than Georgia? destroy the entire group with interceptor fighters, which Georgia did not have
  • washi
    washi 13 August 2013 13: 39
    +2
    Analysis of the combat use of Russian aviation in the early days of hostilities showed that the planning for the support of combat operations by the operational groups of aviation and air defense in the South Ossetian and Abkhaz sectors was carried out without taking into account the capabilities of Georgia’s air defense systems and the specifics of using their EW aviation equipment to suppress them. Gross mistakes were made in the formulation of combat missions, which could lead to the loss of concealed aircraft, which were avoided only by competent actions of the commander of the EW consolidated squadron.
    And not only Aviation and Air Defense. First of all, Intelligence burst. And GRU and SVR.
    And again the stupidity of the "parquet" generals.

    Why, for reconnaissance of the location of their former bases, send a carcass?
    Again "a surprise attack by the German fascist troops"? Even in 1941 it was not sudden for the country's leadership, and directives were sent both to evacuate the families of servicemen and to bring them to the BG. Couldn't Medvedev have given the order to evacuate the civilian population in advance?
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 13 August 2013 13: 41
    +2
    With overall success, the story is not joyful.
    I hope that practical conclusions are made.
    It is gratifying that ours did not slide into the Western manner of bombing the enemy without sparing civilians. Ours even spared the military.
  • poccinin
    poccinin 13 August 2013 13: 44
    +1
    Quote: Bongo
    The Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office has found confirmation of information that Ukrainian citizens a year ago were on the territory of Georgia during the Georgian-Ossetian armed conflict, serving the Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems sold to this country.

    According to the Ukrainian newspaper Segodnya, after the fact that Ukrainian servicemen took part in the hostilities during the August war in South Ossetia, the Prosecutor General’s Office conducted its own inspection.

    “In the process of checking, the GPU found a number of gross violations, which had previously been announced by the head of the temporary investigation commission of the Verkhovna Rada, Valery Konovalyuk. Thus, Ukraine not only sold Georgia at a lower price for the Buk-М1 air defense system, but also sent a group of civilian specialists from the city of Balakley of the Kharkiv region who served these complexes, with the help of which the Georgians fired on Russian combat aircraft. Valery Kabanets, Dmitry Pilipchuk, Vladimir Ponomarenko, and other specialists who were on the territory of Georgia from 5 to 13 last August, that is, before, during and after the armed conflict with South Ossetia, they wrote their own explanations about their stay in Georgia. Participation in hostilities they deny, but do not deny that the equipment serviced. However, whether this is true, it can be installed only on-site. But serious obstacles are being made. As well as the work of the entire group, which found that the air defense system, as well as other weapons and military equipment were sold to Georgia at prices in 8 and more times less than the real ones. The check continues, but people are already hinting at dismissal of staff redundancies, ”the publication cites the publication of a high-ranking source in the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine.

    Official Kiev earlier denied reports about the participation of Ukrainian soldiers, or specialists in military operations during the Georgian-Ossetian conflict in August 2008.

    Well, sho they write? TANED ON THE RESORTS OF GEORGIA. WAR WITH RUSSIA: 2 they didn’t participate in the competition, they didn’t know.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 13 August 2013 13: 50
    +2
    Guys, and more about SPYDERs, anything is known. As I understand it, this air defense system was developed by order of India, but we did not accept it at the IDF. So were they in Georgia or not, and if they were, were they used? The question is solely out of curiosity.
  • Mauzer
    Mauzer 13 August 2013 14: 01
    +3
    The most important thing is to admit your mistakes and draw quality conclusions. Unfortunately, as always, we learn only through blood. Interaction, communication and management are our weak points. But now, it’s kind of slowly starting to improve. Constant interspecific exercises, working out interaction issues and of course high-quality communications, RTR, electronic warfare, etc., and then all our losses will not be in vain!
  • Anastasios
    Anastasios 13 August 2013 14: 06
    +3
    I saw on TV, about 3 years ago, an interview with Russian journalists with Ukrainian mercenaries who participated in this war. Everything was absolutely openly told how, whom and where ... The question is different, where are the special services of the Russian Federation? where is the Punishment? You all scold Israel, but there is just a great principle: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. No matter how cruel it sounds, they went to Georgia not to eat kebabs, but to kill and do not hide it. And notice to kill your former "colleagues" and co-religionists for MONEY ... or again "understand and forgive" ...
  • Corsair
    Corsair 13 August 2013 14: 16
    0
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: Corsair
    If only it were so simple ...

    Yes? Or maybe there are examples? Or, when they built a dam on the Tuzla spit, we filtered, "who is for Russia, who is against." . Not. RTR and ORT channels simply deceived the general broadcast and transferred them to the category of cable.

    And why did you switch to the discussion of the media space?
  • poccinin
    poccinin 13 August 2013 14: 16
    +2
    the question is to correct all the shortcomings. which was revealed by the war. this is GEORGIA AND UKRAINE. and if we met "mattress makers", however, the Americans themselves admit "IF RUSSIANS AND AMERICANS WILL MEET IN THE SKY A BIG BLOODY FIGHT WILL BE" US documentary "ASY OVER MOSCOW" 1996. it is necessary to take into account modern realities. Is it possible that the command is not so far-sighted. It is not 1941 when the task is in the yard and it must be completed at any cost. people must be cherished. and think first of all. people in RUSSIA are intelligent and if it is NECESSARY !! RUSSIAN WILL DIE BUT WILL FULFILL THE TASK!
  • roial
    roial 13 August 2013 14: 27
    +1
    For a box of vodka and a snack in any village, you can make an interview not only with Ukrainian naiomniki but also with Somali pirates, agents of the CIA and Mossad
    Do you not know that in the pursuit of sensation and ratings, journalists are ready to sell their mother, and here such a trifle.
  • roial
    roial 13 August 2013 14: 29
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    The Investigative Committee of the Prosecutor's Office (UPC) of Russia stated that irrefutable evidence was obtained of the participation of Ukrainians in Georgia’s aggression against South Ossetia.


    Well, where is this evidence? Did they provide it to someone?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Akim
    Akim 13 August 2013 14: 35
    +3
    Quote: Corsair
    And why did you switch to the discussion of the media space?


    Yes, because all people are zombies and believe almost everything that pours from the words of the leader.
    As for simplicity. Everything is simple in the army. There is only white and black. The order cannot be partially executed. Or YES or NO. When you begin to philosophize and look for shades, you have nothing to do in the army. And all secondary reasons such as: or religion does not allow, or I want to spoil the neighbors - not allowed.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Corsair
    Corsair 13 August 2013 14: 54
    -1
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: Corsair
    .Although it is more correct to call just a raw materials appendage (and

    In Ukraine, there are few minerals and forests to trade in raw materials. Semi-finished products - I agree.

    Oh li ...

    I am giving the data "from the electronic version" of the national atlas of Ukraine "
    © Institut Geografii Nat. Academy of Sciences of Ukraine (order), 2007


    ...Ukraine will need to mine the base-syrovinny base and lay down to the largest mineral-syrovinnyh powers. On the territory of Russia, ponad 20 yew was displayed. bloodlines and ore deposits, represented by 97 species of cinnamon copalin. Nearly 8 rozvidano thousands of families, some of which even half are scattered. The most significant value is mine, manganese, uranium, titanium-zirconium ore, vugil, gas, naphtha and condensate, kaolin, graphite, non-metallic sirovin for metallurgy, facing stone, mineral water.

    Mineral-syrovny complex on the cob of 90's of rock having secured 23 – 25% of gross national income and one-third of foreign currency income from export. From the vistaside and the cinnamon copalins ’voyages to the country, 48% of the industrial potential of the country up to 20% of labor resources was tied up, nearly 400 mines, 1 100 automobiles, and dozens of gas-filled complexes were almost all. Richny vipusk production girnichovidobuvnogo complex in 1990 p. becoming 20,1 billion dollars USA. At present, with mineral resources, 42% of GDP and 60% of expert currency reserves are tied. Approximately the variance of stocks in the main species of cinnamon Kopalin re-distribute 7,5 trillion dollars. USA. Vartіst rozvіdanih reserves at the rosary store per capita of the population of Ukraine to become close 150 yew. dale USA.

    A number of cinnamon kopalins of Ukraine representations uniquely for syrovini families, rostashovany in rivial minds for the construction of hirnichopromislovy complexes. In Ukraine, in significant obsolete species, kaolin (18% of the special species), manganese (10%) and minerals (4%) of ore, uranium, titanium, zirconium, germanium, graphite (4%), as well as metal, are (quartzity, fluxing vapnyaki and dolomiti), chemical syrovina (native sirka, kam'yana and kal_yna soli), facing stone (granite, gabro, labradorite), gluing.

    From the upper part of the country, I’m adding carbon dioxide to the south, the Vugilla storm, peat, cement to the syrup, refractory clay and the clay, to the syringe for the viral materials, the store, the factory, the factory, In small oversight, there are nickel ores, gold, scandium, burshtin, zeolite, phosphate syrovine.

    It is known that the cows of low-buried cinnamon in Ukraine, such as beryllium, niobium and tantalum, red earth, copper, lead, zinc, molybdenum, fluorspar, apatite, oil shale, are known.

    And as you know, this is not all ...
  • Anastasios
    Anastasios 13 August 2013 15: 13
    +1
    Quote: roial
    For a box of vodka and a snack in any village, you can make an interview not only with Ukrainian naiomniki but also with Somali pirates, agents of the CIA and Mossad
    Do you not know that in the pursuit of sensation and ratings, journalists are ready to sell their mother, and here such a trifle.


    let's think logically. Anti-aircraft systems and a radar were delivered by Ukraine to Georgia. Nobody denies this. Georgia had no personnel for maintenance and combat use. Who do you think worked on Russian planes? The more so, Ukrainians were often spotted on the territory of Chechnya in two wars. I will note mainly Western Ukrainians. I have a couple of friends from Galicia. What can I say, pathological hatred for everything Russian. Poles are probably worse than Russians for them. So I'm sure that they have inherited there too. so again the question: "to understand and forgive"
    1. roial
      roial 13 August 2013 17: 53
      +5
      If you think logically, Ukraine has supplied Georgia beeches since 2007. And what do you think it is impossible to train crews for them in a year ???? Unlike your army, it was not conscripts who served there, they didn’t do the cleaning of the territory and painting the curbs, so it’s quite real. But if you feel better about the fact that the Ukrainians did it, then let it, because you can’t convince you?
      1. Anastasios
        Anastasios 13 August 2013 18: 53
        0
        what do you think, how much time is needed in order to prepare an air defense specialist (officer). This is not a computer shooter to play. The year is clearly not enough, we need theoretical and, most importantly, practical exercises, so, unfortunately, the Ukrainians fired Russian planes and it’s obviously not easier for me to be respected.
        1. roial
          roial 13 August 2013 19: 01
          -2
          The official course is half a year, so it’s quite realistic to prepare more than one calculation.
          1. Anastasios
            Anastasios 13 August 2013 19: 09
            +1
            cool, let's cancel the military schools and leave sergeant training ... That is, for six months, and theory and practice? interesting at what training grounds and with what MTB?
            1. roial
              roial 13 August 2013 20: 50
              +3
              Quote: Anastas
              let's cancel military schools and leave sergeant training.


              Do you want to say your Buk crews are entirely made up of officers?

              If you don’t know then in the world there are two so-called training schools - Soviet and American,
              the difference is that in Soviet universities they taught not only a military specialty, but also taught a general course that sometimes had as many hours as training in a specialty (if you graduated from a military institute, you should remember that they taught mathematics, physics, termesh, sociology, philosophy and other disciplines that you absolutely did not come in handy)
              but the amers threw away all unnecessary and only teach the future specialty, which is why the officer training course in Russia takes 5 years and in America 2-3 years (depending on specialization)
              so if you are not distracted by all kinds of nonsense such as theory, charters, peeling potatoes, then if you have the equipment, qualified teachers it’s quite possible to prepare crews for Bukov, by the way in connection with

              "The actions of Russian aviation were characterized by the following failures:
              - the possible location of active air defense systems of Georgia and their detection and destruction zones was not taken into account;
              - no terrain was used;
              - repeated visits were made to targets (and from the same directions);
              - the position of the sun and the objects illuminated by it was not taken into account;
              - anti-aircraft and anti-missile maneuvers were not performed;
              - flight to the targets and back 8 and 9 August was carried out on the same route;
              - the absence of reconnaissance aircraft capable of conducting detailed radio reconnaissance in real time with high accuracy in determining the coordinates of the radar;
              - the discrepancy between the frequency ranges of the RGS missiles "air-radar" and the radar air defense missile system of Soviet production, the absence of control equipment and target designation;
              - the insufficient number of jammers, their short time in the jamming zone;
              - insufficient height of the maximum ceiling of the flight of helicopters - jammers, as a result of which it was impossible to use them in the mountainous terrain of South Ossetia;
              - Lack of means of REB group protection from battle formations. "

              inexperienced Georgian crews could also shoot down planes
  • Corsair
    Corsair 13 August 2013 15: 14
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    And as you know, this is not all ..

    Unfortunately, I have to end communication on the network because of a "glitch" of the browser (site?). As soon as I press the "button" "answer" immediately "throws" to the title of the article request soldier
  • Bongo
    13 August 2013 15: 18
    +3
    The soldiers are so-so, a lot of ponts and arrogance. But, if possible, they preferred to serve as bread-cutters and scurry about the captors.
  • Akim
    Akim 13 August 2013 15: 21
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    And as you know, this is not all ...

    This is all the data for the 90-91 year under the USSR. Reprinted unchanged regularly. These all manganese, iron, coal, phosphates are used for the manufacture of semi-finished metallurgy.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 13 August 2013 18: 28
      0
      Quote: Akim
      Quote: Corsair
      And as you know, this is not all ...

      This is all the data for the 90-91 year under the USSR. Reprinted unchanged regularly. These all manganese, iron, coal, phosphates are used for the manufacture of semi-finished metallurgy.

      And here, "if you please":
      The Atlas was fragmented at the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine in the form of the Decree of the President of Ukraine in 1 sickle 2001 p. “About the National Atlas of Ukraine” and Decree of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine for 26 chest 2003 p. “About hardened training programs and the view of the National Atlas of Ukraine”. Thematic updates of cards are secured by the institutes of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine for the participation of representatives of universities and universities and ministries. Scientific and methodological supervision of this type of education Institute of Geography of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine.

      The National Atlas of Ukraine significantly expands the information base of the state and the integration of the Integration into a simple informational space.


      Head of editorial board
      National Atlas of Ukraine
      President
      National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine
      Academician of NAS of Ukraine
      B.Є. PATON

      Керівник Cooking programs and programs
      National Atlas of Ukraine,
      First Vice President -
      head exercises secretary
      National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine
      Academician of NAS of Ukraine A.P. Shpak

      So what year does this information relate to? LIE ACADEMICS mean?

      Clickable Image:
      1. Akim
        Akim 13 August 2013 18: 40
        +1
        I translated here so that others understand:
        In modern conditions, the pace and scale of reproduction of its own mineral resource base do not satisfy the needs of the state. Due to lack of funds, the volume of exploration work decreased by 3-4 times. Therefore, since 1994, the increase in proven reserves of most important minerals does not compensate for their production. The consequences of the unweighted policies of the past are already negatively affecting the efficiency of the economy. Analysis of the state of affairs and forecast estimates indicate that in the near future the situation may become even more complicated. The lack of certain types of own raw materials will progress if decisive measures are not taken now.

        Statistics are all garbage. Bazaar prices are not consistent with official prices. So it is in macroeconomics.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 13 August 2013 19: 40
          -1
          Quote: Akim
          There are few minerals in Ukraine, forests to trade in raw materials. Semi-finished products - I agree.

          Quote: Akim
          Statistics are all garbage. Bazaar prices are not consistent with official prices. So it is in macroeconomics.


          And off this post:
          Therefore, starting from 1994, the increase in explored reserves of most important minerals does not compensate for their production


          You do not believe N ANU and the President of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Academician of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine B.Є. PATON?
          Authoritatively his scientist in Ukraine planetary scale can not found ...
  • Akim
    Akim 13 August 2013 15: 40
    +2
    Quote: Bongo
    They are soldiers so-so, a lot of show-offs and arrogance.

    There are plenty of dolboyasters everywhere. In the army, I had to see how PKT soldiers hammered BMPs from the turret with a hammer. Or how a soldier inserted a ramrod into the barrel of a loaded machine gun. On the Russian "Top Secret" channel, I saw a soldier take the monitor to Gori, because he was told to confiscate all the computers to collect information. When he shouted: "Debiloid, carry the system unit, he asked. And what is this?
  • Bongo
    13 August 2013 15: 47
    +4
    As for the dolboischer, it's hard not to agree with you. But how not cool, the soldiers they are unimportant.
    It's not surprising that a village boy from the Russian hinterland cannot distinguish a system unit from a monitor, he saw him for the first time in the army. But it is these "Vani" who bear the brunt of the war.
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 15: 57
      +2
      Quote: Bongo
      But whatever you say, they’re unimportant soldiers.

      In this case, they are even good, because there was no bloody long war. But there are brains in Georgian heads, and not as in RTR-Planeta they said: "They say it is impossible to train them." The Turkmens studied with me on the course (through barter) and, in addition to artillery, they mastered SNAR-10. And it was not an easy task.
  • tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 13 August 2013 15: 48
    +7
    Quote: Bongo
    Your sarcasm is not appropriate, if it were not for deliveries of air defense missiles from Ukraine and the combat work of Ukrainian calculations, the Georgians would not be able to oppose anything to our aviation.

    If, according to all the rules, air defense systems were suppressed first, using missiles to destroy the radar, then there would be no casualties. And so our Air Force looked pale, colonels fly (no one else is there), it is not clear who is knocking them down, the enemy’s air defense works and they suppress it only for 3 days, although they had to be preoccupied in advance, the commander contacts by cell phone, there is no normal connection and the interaction between the headquarters and the armed forces, and despite the fact that Georgians are not warriors, we need to objectively look at things and correct the mistakes made, we can no longer afford to win wars due to numerical superiority, there are very few Russians left to protect them.
    And now you can minus.
    1. alone
      alone 13 August 2013 17: 53
      +7
      I think that the Air Force generals decided that everything will be like in the Chechen campaigns, some MANPADS and dshk. even after the downed planes appeared, they began to act just as it should. Here the factor of underestimating the enemy worked
  • vik61
    vik61 13 August 2013 18: 12
    0
    http://ursa-tm.ru/forum/index.php?/topic/56452-%d0%bf%d1%80%d0%b5%d0%b4%d0%b0%d1
    %82%d0%b5%d0%bb%d0%b8-%d1%80%d1%83%d1%81%d1%81%d0%ba%d0%be%d0%b3%d0%be-%d0%bc%d0
    % b8% d1% 80% d0% b0 / Here on the topic of who was in the "Buki"
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 18: 30
      +1
      Quote: vik61
      Here on the topic who was in the "Buki"

      It was this very journalist who was filming the Crimean demobilization, who was ordered a year later, after a time limit, to drive a Georgian BMP. Honestly, I don't have enough mat for this journalist. To ... ozele, a provocateur and he. In pursuit of a cheap sensation, he is ready to start a "nuclear war". We also have such.
      1. Anastasios
        Anastasios 13 August 2013 19: 03
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        http://ursa-tm.ru/forum/index.php?/topic/56452-%d0%bf%d1%80%d0%b5%d0%b4%d0%b0%d1

        %82%d0%b5%d0%bb%d0%b8-%d1%80%d1%83%d1%81%d1%81%d0%ba%d0%be%d0%b3%d0%be-%d0%bc%d0

        % b8% d1% 80% d0% b0 / Here on the topic of who was in the "Buki"


        The man specifically described who, called the names of the address. try to refute it. In pursuit of a long ruble (hryvnia, dollar ...), people became Judas, Vlasovs of the 21st century. This is my personal opinion. Words: it’s not us, it’s all of them, but we didn’t want it, we couldn’t, it remains only words.
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 August 2013 19: 12
          -1
          Quote: Anastas
          In pursuit of a long ruble (hryvnia, dollar ...) people became Judas, Vlasovs of the 21st century

          These are mercenaries who can go for ideological reasons as well. There are such people and no one denies this. And about Judah - loudly said. That's just the difference. He rides or is seconded. In Libya, too, the West shouted about Ukrainian pilots.
          1. Anastasios
            Anastasios 13 August 2013 19: 33
            +1
            for me they are all Judas. these are the people who crossed to the opposite side and shot at their former colleagues and fellow tribesmen. something after 91, everyone began to hide behind ideological reasons. But what was it before 91 years old, everything was OK? They didn’t see anything, were members of the CPSU and then they began to see clearly, saw tyranny? Yes, and what kind of ideology? DOLLARS ...
            1. Akim
              Akim 13 August 2013 19: 38
              -2
              Quote: Anastas
              for me they are all Judas. these are the people who crossed to the opposite side and shot at their former colleagues and fellow tribesmen.

              But what about the person who went to the West and his taxes go to the maintenance of NATO armies (USA, Germany, Great Britain)?
              1. viktorR
                viktorR 13 August 2013 20: 15
                0
                It all depends on the reasons for the move.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 13 August 2013 20: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: viktorR
                  It all depends on the reasons for the move.

                  Of course, therefore, we must treat everyone with respect. There are a million reasons. For example, for the sake of saving the life of my son (for treatment), I would go to mercenaries. Thank God I don’t have such a situation, but there are thousands of people.
              2. Anastasios
                Anastasios 13 August 2013 20: 35
                +2
                Dear, if you had me in mind, then I am glad to inform you that I did not leave Ukraine and my taxes would definitely not help you. Unfortunately, I have never lived in Russia either, and as a German emigrated from Kazakhstan to Germany. BUT! my cultural homeland is Russia, my mother tongue is Russian. Although my children were born in Germany, they perfectly speak RUSSIAN (which I cannot say about some representatives of one independent state) and read Russian literature as well, which I am undoubtedly happy about. And in general, your post is written in the style of "the Fool himself", you tried to hit from the sly, and this is at least ugly, but this is on your advice.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 13 August 2013 20: 45
                  +3
                  Quote: Anastas
                  You tried to hit it off, and this is at least ugly, but that's on your advice.

                  Yes, I did that attack. The appeal was not directed at the beginning personally to you, but when you began to cover with the words of "fellow tribesmen", it somehow became insulting. Even if you are German by nationality, you should have had one homeland. I, too, am not Ukrainian by nationality. She was gone in 91 and you left for your historical homeland. Why should I, or those who are accused here, identify modern Russia with the USSR?
                  1. Anastasios
                    Anastasios 13 August 2013 22: 09
                    0
                    you compare the incomparable: emigration and participation in the war on the side of the enemy. You justify the Ukrainians (and whether Ukrainians by nationality?) Who shot the Russians by saying that they are now citizens of different countries ... It seems to me that you have exhausted all the arguments on this topic, and therefore you turned to individuals. In this vein, I do not consider further discussion possible. I wish you all the best.
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 13 August 2013 22: 35
                      +1
                      Quote: Anastas
                      . I wish you all the best.

                      Thank you.
                      But I do not condone it, be it Ukrainian or Turkish. Killing is generally unnatural. We will not concern you specifically, but if tomorrow is a war, if tomorrow is a campaign, what country will emigrants protect?
                      This is not even a question, but information for consideration.
                      If he went as a mercenary - not a career officer, but a retiree, this is his personal decision. It is not necessary to refer to "brotherly feelings" here and to call them Judas is probably also not correct. Life has shown long ago that this is only, unfortunately, an invention of propagandists.
                      And information can be appealed in many ways. Take the last example. Why Russia does not betray the fisherman who survived after ramming their longboat? The information that gets into the media is shocking, but so far there is no official statement, there is nothing to draw conclusions.,
  • de bouillon
    de bouillon 13 August 2013 18: 38
    +2
    Oleg Terebunsky was shot down by the Ossetians. At the same time, everything was filmed by the journalist team of Alexander Sladkov. He will tell about this later in 2009 in one of his series of the program "Military Program"
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 13 August 2013 18: 42
      +2
      Quote: de Bouillon
      Ossetians brought down Oleg Terebunskog.

      and even shot in the air with a parachute !!
    2. Anastasios
      Anastasios 13 August 2013 19: 22
      +3
      from "friendly fire" no one is insured anywhere, but the conversation is not about MANPADS, but about BUKS. They hit TU22M3 and SU-24R. And the fact that everything was chaotic and thoughtless is true. Although everyone had been waiting for war for a long time, people began to evacuate from Tskhinval at the beginning of August. They knew for sure about the concentration of Georgian troops at the border. So why again, like in June 41, without intelligence, without communication on patriotism alone? Why is Israel xe.ra. cheating on Syria without entering the air defense zone? and Usirii it is clearly more abruptly than that of the Georgians. Where were OTR Tochka, Iskander? Or are they only made for parades?
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 14 August 2013 08: 18
        +1
        Quote: Anastas
        from "friendly fire" no one is insured anywhere,

        The question is not about * friendly * fire, but about the vile shooting in the air of a catapulted pilot !!
        With jokes, jokes commenting on the camera!
        1. old man54
          old man54 14 August 2013 16: 11
          +2
          Quote: Yarbay
          The question is not about * friendly * fire, but about the vile shooting in the air of a catapulted pilot !!

          agree with you Yurbai !! even if it was an enemy pilot, then until he resisted and began to fire himself at those wishing to take him prisoner, opening fire on him, especially when he weighs on a parachute, this is meanness and she does not paint anyone, but war does not write off such "things"! And in the movie Mamontov it is like some kind of valor is shown, Ugh !!
          And in this case, it also turned out that they nearly failed,!
          Quote: Yarbay
          With jokes, jokes commenting on the camera!

          That's about shooting and cameras in the army, especially in the time of the database, you need to do something. And then the fashion went ... they remove all crap instead of their direct duties, from pure vanity of their own, and then they flood the network with this.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 14 August 2013 22: 09
            +1
            Quote: old man54
            I agree with you Yurbay !!

            You know often when I comment on this, they write to me, but what would you do if it were an Armenian or an Armenian or an Armenian child !!
            I am surprised that they do not understand that I have moral principles and I am afraid of the Almighty and cannot do otherwise than I think!
            Quote: old man54
            even if it was an enemy pilot, then until he resisted and began to fire himself at those wishing to take him prisoner, opening fire on him, especially when he weighs on a parachute, this is meanness and she does not paint anyone, but war does not write off such "things"!

            I remember our war, then I look at the war in Syria, at the comments of people about the atrocities of one side or another and I understand that most people are already sick and, apparently, the price is close!
            I'll send you something in the face!
            1. old man54
              old man54 14 August 2013 23: 48
              0
              Quote: Yarbay
              and what would you do if it were an Armenian or an Armenian or an Armenian child !! I am surprised that they do not understand that I have moral principles

              a tricky question for many who have a heart full of anger, I think so, and I'm not talking about Azerbaijanis or Muslims, but about people in general. I recall a number of stories from the Second World War, when the Germans were struck by the personal heroism of our pilot (either tanarn, or diving in a crashed plane at a station or depot) and they rendered him all military honors if he died, right up to a farewell salvo from a German air-raid weapon at the grave, or special attitude in the hospital. And after all, there was also a war, and more bloody and merciless than this. But here respect and honor the military prowess and heroism of them, the Germans, and even if it is an enemy, we can and should learn, even now.
              Quote: Yarbay
              I'm afraid of the Almighty

              I’ll get the audacity and I’m going to ban you here: He doesn’t need to be afraid, He needs to be populated, in the most literal sense of the word, as a father. Now you imagine that your children, your son, are afraid of you, to horror !! How do you feel? repeat
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 15 August 2013 01: 54
                0
                Quote: old man54
                I’ll get the audacity and I’m going to ban you here: He doesn’t need to be afraid, He needs to be populated, in the truest sense of the word, as a father.

                I like the words of Tamerlane-Man without the fear of God in the heart like a mad dog!
                Do not compare God with man!
                We must be afraid of the wrath of God, it’s written in all of God's books, it’s not I who invented it !!
                We are slaves of the Most High and we owe everything to Him only !!
                1. old man54
                  old man54 15 August 2013 02: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  I like the words of Tamerlane

                  Tamerlan was a great war and commander, yes! But I do not remember that he would be a saint ?!
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Tamerlane's words-Man without the fear of God in his heart is like a mad dog!

                  Fear, as a feeling, the complete antipode of Love, as a feeling, respectively! You can neither build anything good on fear, nor when. And God, is it Love, or do you disagree? But when there is no love in a person, or it is not enough for the strength of his Spirit, then at least nchf [will keep him from falling into sprout! Apparently this meant Tamerlan? wink
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Do not compare God with man!

                  on this comparison, all the sacred ancient literature is built, from the Bible, to the Koran (perhaps not very read it).
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  We must be afraid of the wrath of God, it’s written in all of God's books, it’s not I who invented it !!

                  no, don't! I'm not afraid, honestly and generally! If I deserve a punishment, I will humbly accept it, but I won’t shake it! Fear, it fetters, and not only physically, is it really not clear to you yet, having experienced so much already in life? Without fear, man is free, more than a bird, and only then is he a man!
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 15 August 2013 03: 02
                    +1
                    Quote: old man54
                    Fear, he fetters

                    This is not always terrible !!))
                    For example, I'm afraid to be in a position where I will be ashamed!
                    After all, everyone will remember there !!))
                    It is terrible to be in a position where you have not lost confidence!
                    I'm personally scared!
                    Quote: old man54
                    And God, is it Love, or do you disagree?

                    It’s you who went a little to philosophy)) the conversation will be too long, I think I’ll write tomorrow in the face)))
                    God, of course, love, but also punishes cruelly, people should not doubt it!
                    1. old man54
                      old man54 15 August 2013 13: 42
                      0
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      God, of course, love, but also punishes cruelly, people should not doubt it!

                      I personally do not doubt it !!! But, an immensely loving father punishes his child, but not because he is cruel, but because he loves him, wishes him well and does not indulge his weaknesses and vices! And because he loves what he believes in, the ideals of his understanding of the world. hi
  • vik61
    vik61 13 August 2013 18: 47
    0
    Mamontov is respected among the military servants of the RF Ministry of Defense and I wouldn’t make Gapon a priest out of him, along with Sladkov these are the two most popular military journalists, unlike Mr. Barannik (KP observer)
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 19: 04
      +2
      Quote: vik61
      Mamontov is respected among the military officers of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

      It is quite possible, but all "investigations" by Arkady Mamontov are subjective and not one has received a loud explosion in the information world. Suffice it to recall his "fake accusations" of doctors in the case of "black transontologists". Drawn to the guilty and the innocent. Academician Shumakov continued to work, although this REDISKA poured a bucket of slops on him.
      PS Russian channels are shown here and we are following the information.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 14 August 2013 01: 32
        0
        Quote: Akim
        It is quite possible, but all "investigations" by Arkady Mamontov are subjective and not one has received a loud explosion in the information world.

        PS Russian channels are shown here and we are following the information.

        Russian TV should be watched and not watched!
        When the film-investigation of Arkady Mamontov about a top-secret operation was broadcast, they denied espionage history not only in London. In Russia, including among his fellow journalists, there were many, to put it mildly, skeptics. The failure of the British intelligence services was called both staging and propaganda.
        Let me remind you that we are talking about the so-called "spy stones" - electronic bookmarks of British intelligence with the help of which data were collected from MI6 agents.
        The number of slops poured by "liberals" on Arcadia exceeded all limits ...
        And now after six (!) For years, the British acknowledged the failure and confirmed the fact of espionage, thereby whitewashing the honor of a journalist and a person.
        MORAL, which I hope you will draw from this post:
        DO NOT HAVE AN ATTEMPT WITHOUT A FACT
        1. Akim
          Akim 14 August 2013 06: 42
          +2
          Quote: Corsair
          Let me remind you that we are talking about the so-called "spy stones" - electronic bookmarks of British intelligence with the help of which data were collected from MI6 agents.


          Well, what happened. Those employees continued to work the same way, because no one had formally charged them.
  • High speed
    High speed 13 August 2013 18: 50
    +3
    Quote: Akim
    There could be both Americans and Ukrainians, and even Zulus. This is their personal business or those private offices that sent them Secretly, no specialists allocated from the army.


    This is called, under the fool to channel (sorry, barracks). The USA has long passed on to the principle of conducting aggression by private structures. Yes, yes, this is not us, this is not our army, but this is not our CIA, etc. These are simple free people, they went for their money and helped whoever you want, but against the Russian Federation.
    1. Akim
      Akim 13 August 2013 19: 16
      +1
      Quote: High Speed
      These are simple free people, for their money we went and helped anyone you want,

      Well, not for their own, and there are crazy rabbits spinning there. They showed an interview with a Ukrainian who works for such a private shop in Iraq.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 13 August 2013 18: 59
    0
    Ossetians does it matter who they shoot at?
  • RoTTor
    RoTTor 13 August 2013 19: 43
    +5
    It is no accident that the shot down pilots are more and more senior officers, especially many whole colonels. Captains fly bigger and better. Pilots in large ranks, especially from DA, were accustomed in both Afghanistan and Chechnya to the absence of any opposition from the enemy and were not mentally prepared for it. The loss of the Tu-22 is a shame! And there seemed to be no organizational conclusions on it.
    Zakakashvili on the anniversary of this warfare counted up as many as 10 downed Russian aircraft.
    And more about personnel failures: after graduating from Kiev University, it has ... carried the hardships and deprivation of service at the OKPP "Boryspil International Airport (Kiev)" of the Border Troops of the KGB of the USSR. In the same troops served and another CIA --'re coming out-would-be President Yushchenko, the son of a fascist henchman, a camp capo.
    These are the frames that decided everything!
  • crest 57
    crest 57 13 August 2013 19: 43
    +4
    Yeah! Reality turned out to be much worse than the wildest nonsense of a madman.
    Well, what can I say about this. Only one:
    "Thank you, Lord, for the fact that the glorious sons of their peoples Egorov (Russian), Kantaria (Georgian) and Berest (Ukrainian) do not see this."