Military Review

Uyghur question as a model of separatism policy

215
Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region of China is not the most peaceful place on the globe, although it is very attractive for, for example, tourists. Uighur riots and protests in the area do not subside. Extremists from the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), as well as from the East-Turkestan Association for Education and Solidarity (ETESA), incite youth who want “independence”. Yes, and Washington aside is not worth it. The Chinese authorities, of course, suppress Uigur Islamists. And in the Russian media there are parallels between the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region (XUAR) and Chechnya.




A month and a half ago, XUAR was sentenced to various prison sentences of 19 Uighurs. They were accused of inciting racial hatred and religious extremism. Reported by "Lenta.ru" with reference to Reuters.

What are they wrong? One visited forbidden sites on the Internet. Another distributed online materials received from abroad that promoted "religious extremism and terrorism." Eight more were convicted for “disturbing public order”: according to the charges, they “broke into houses and smashed television sets in“ religious ecstasy ”, The Guardian notes.

In the summer of 2013, there were a number of clashes between the Uigurs and the police in XUAR.

As indicated in Novaya Gazeta Vasily Golovnin, ITAR-TASS plant in Japan, a month ago, a mosque in a settlement in the Khotan oasis was closed before a namaz: Chinese police warned that the building was used by extremists. A crowd of Muslims marched through the city to the cries of "Allah Akbar!"

Chinese authorities claim that a group of extremists with long knives and sticks attacked a police station on motorcycles; from there they were answered with bullets. But the Free Asia-sponsored Free Asia radio station is confident that the police started first: it beat the crowd, and the young people tried to run on motorcycles — and got in the back of the queue. 10-15 killed, fifty injured, more than two hundred arrested.

The bloody incident occurred in the town of Lukchune - an island of tourism. 26 June a mob of Uygur Muslims there suddenly took the police station by storm. The police tried to shoot back, but almost all of them were killed with sticks and knives. The winning crowd went to the city administration, but there, indicates V. Golovnin, she was greeted by machine-gun fire. The outcome was predetermined by units of the People’s Police that had been transferred to the place of rebellion. Bottom line: 35 killed (of which 11 was the attackers, the rest were policemen and local residents).

Three months ago, a rebellion happened in the south of XUAR. 21 dead, including 15 cops.

Judging by the death toll from various sides, it does not seem that the speeches are "bloody" suppressed by the police.

At the end of October 2012, the rebellious Uigurs also encountered government forces. After which the Chinese authorities wrote ZeeNews.com, appealed to the entire international community, calling on him to show "high vigilance" and at the same time intensify cooperation in the fight against terrorism. The reason for such an ardent statement was the actions of Uygur Islamist militants in the north-west of Xinjiang province, where they clashed with government forces.

Information on the clash in Xinjiang was confirmed by the official representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the PRC, Hong Lei, who stated that the militants were in "collusion" with international terrorist groups.

The Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) and the East Turkestan Association for Education and Solidarity (ETESA) in their struggle for the “independence” of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region intensified from the 1990s, the newspaper notes. By the way, starting in May 2012, the Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement and the East Turkestan Association for Education and Solidarity, speaking with Al-Qaeda, send their "fighters" to Syria, where these guys are fighting for money and rations fighting against the Assad government .

ETIM in China is involved in drug trafficking, as well as trafficking in persons and weaponsin addition, members of this organization are involved in robberies and abductions for ransom. ETIM is a gathering of separatists and criminals who once fled from Xinjiang and studied terrorism abroad. So say Chinese officials.

As for ETESA, its activities are aimed at “educating and training Muslims” in Xinjiang and “their liberation”, which will be achieved through the creation of a Muslim state.

Such a “independence” is demanded by the separatists. In the media no-no, there is a glimpse of unverified information that these extremist Uighurs even fought (and continue to operate to this day) in Chechnya. In Syria, they are undoubtedly fighting - it is clear which side.

Supporters of Uighur independence claim that the Chinese authorities: a) forbid them to practice Islam; b) do not allow minor children (up to 18 years) to participate in religious practice; c) deprive the Uygur of national identity and try to assimilate.

By the way, ETIM, that is, the Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement, is included in the list of terrorist organizations of both the United States and the United Nations. However, both ETESA and other separatist movements in the region are not listed. As indicated by Tatyana Kaukenova (IA "REGNUM"), the Uyghur map for the United States is convenient as a potential lever of pressure on a growing China. Ms. Rabia Kadir, representing the Uyghur movement and who heads the World Uygur Congress (WUC), lives in the United States. Where does the money from VUK? And it turns out that it is funded by the US Congress. When almost two hundred people were killed in the summer of 2009 in Urumqi during the suppression of another riot, the Chinese government accused the WUK of initiating protests. It is interesting that, as Andy Worthington notes (eurasiareview.com), in the Guantanamo Prison, three Uygurs are still in prison (nineteen of their compatriots have been transferred to other countries since 2008).

All this, in principle, clearly reflects the policy of double standards in Washington. When it is necessary, the State Department pulls on one lever; when the time comes, it takes on the second.

As writes in Nezavisimaya Gazeta Orientalist Yuri Tavrovsky, events in Chinese Xinjiang increasingly resemble 1990's situation in Russian Chechnya.

"... Inflammatory sermons in mosques, attacks on police stations, murders of" comers "from the central regions of the country, skillful use of real mistakes of local authorities and provocative myths, dissemination of disruptive literature published abroad, creation of foreign missions to conduct information warfare ..."


The author recalls that tolerant Chinese have coexisted with the bearers of Islam for many centuries: the first mosque appeared in the then Chinese capital Chang'an (now Xian) in 742 year.

Why is Xinjiang? An important role, notes the orientalist, is played by the location at the border, facilitating penetration from abroad. Without external financing and sent instructors and mercenaries, the conflict in Chechnya would not have become so widespread. The same in XUAR. Without the participation of foreign centers, the Uygur’s dissatisfaction would hardly have taken the shape of a coordinated insurgency. The author also explains the increased attention to Xinjiang in preparation for the period after 2014, when the main part of the ISAF contingent will be withdrawn from Afghanistan.

Yuri Tavrovsky recalls that the first major bloodshed in Urumqi in 2009 did not accidentally coincide with the uprisings in Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, as well as the beginning of the actions of the rioters in Kazakhstan. In essence, "technologies of destabilization of the entire strategically important region are being worked out, the militants are getting together, channels are being created for the transfer of terrorists and weapons, and the spread of subversive propaganda."

This is nothing but the blessing of the West, which concerns the XUAR in the same way as it concerned Chechnya. China's containment strategy openly proclaimed by the United States in 2011.

“... An important role in stirring up separatism in XUAR is played by professional terrorists acting under the auspices of al-Qaida. In recent years, this worldwide terrorist organization has not only restored ties with its creators from the American special services, but also builds them up. Suffice it to mention Libya, Yemen, Sudan. This became especially evident during the civil war in Syria, where terrorists gathered from around the world under the black flags of al-Qaeda receive funding and weapons not only from Qatar and Saudi Arabia, but also from the United States and other Western countries. In essence, supporters of the world Islamic caliphate became the executors of large orders of the West to destabilize entire countries and regions of the world ... "


To this it must be added that destabilization in XUAR is hitting the PRC more painfully that this autonomous region in the Middle Kingdom has become one of the modern centers of attraction for tourists.

Как notes Xinhua news agency, only in the first half of 2013, XUAR received 22,25 million tourists. According to the statistics of the district, in January-June, the number of tourists visiting Xinjiang increased by 28% compared to the same period last year, and the growth rate by 8,3 pp exceeded the rate recorded in the same period 2012 of the year. XUAR tourism revenue reached 23,8 billion yuan and showed an increase of 23%.

Undoubtedly, Washington will continue to carry out - for example, through Mrs. Kadir, the "coordination" of its activities in XUAR. The scenario chosen is the same that started in 2011, in Syria. In the same way as in Syria, in the Chinese autonomy “terrorists” and “non-terrorists” are defined, that is, freedom fighters. If in the Syrian conflict, Washington officially dissociates itself from al-Qaida, in the XUAR, it officially condemns the Islamic Movement of East Turkestan. The rest of the separatist movements are supported in various ways, up to financing through Congress - in full accordance with the "containment strategy" of the Middle Kingdom.

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
Photos used:
http://fototelegraf.ru/?p=25858 (Reuters)
215 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 1 August 2013 10: 24 New
    32
    One visited banned sites on the Internet. Another disseminated on the network materials received from abroad, propagandizing "religious extremism and terrorism." Eight more were convicted of "disturbing public order": according to the prosecution, they "burst into homes and broke TVs in" religious ecstasy
    China is not as monolithic as many are. He has a lot of internal national problems and he solves them very harshly, if not cruelly, despite any international opinion. Of course, we don’t need to learn from them, and we have enough experience, but it’s not a problem to carefully monitor and adopt healthy things ...
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 1 August 2013 22: 07 New
      10
      Tension in the CYAR began to build up quite recently - the PRC leadership began to massively "import" Han Chinese (Chinese) into this region. I was there in the 90s - everything was calm. There are about 30 million Yugirs there. There were few Chinese there - about 1 million. Now, there, the number of Chinese people has become equal to the Yugir population. That rolled. There are about 1 million Kazakhs there, there are Kyrgyz, I even met Russian - his ancestors moved to China during the revolution of 1917, now he works as a teacher of the Russian language in the institute, although he was already in age. Now if you see a bunch of young people, then for sure yygyra. The Chinese, seeing such a bunch, go to the other side and try to quickly leave this place.
      1. TuTopT-ru-fuflo
        TuTopT-ru-fuflo 2 August 2013 10: 49 New
        0
        AND THERE DIASPORA
    2. bastard
      bastard 1 August 2013 23: 20 New
      +3
      but it’s worth it! It’s necessary to exterminate any separatism atrociously even cannibalistic! especially Islamic separatism must be strangled in gas chambers! and stop talking about tolerance!
      1. SOKOL777
        SOKOL777 2 August 2013 01: 25 New
        +9
        No, dear, the people have nothing to do with it.
        "See the root," said Kozma Prutkov.
        The article says where the money comes from, evil is there ...
        These stinking Yankees must be crushed all over the world. am angry
        1. CTEPX
          CTEPX 2 August 2013 06: 00 New
          +2
          Quote: SOKOL777
          No, dear, the people have nothing to do with it.

          Quote: SOKOL777
          these smelly Yankees must be crushed around the world

          Yankees are also people)).
          Quote: SOKOL777
          "Look at the root," said Kozma Prutkov. The article says where the money comes from, that's evil ...

          yes
        2. Egor.nic
          Egor.nic 2 August 2013 10: 02 New
          +5
          No, you're wrong. Nationalist chauvinism and a focus on independence have existed in China, in my memory, since the 70s of the 20th century. The uprisings and riots in the Uigur region were already taking place in the 70s and 80s and gained the greatest strength since the 90s (the collapse of the USSR, the Alma-ata-Urumqi straight road, when a mass of currency poured in exchange for bad Chinese goods) .
          But similar underground activities and spontaneous performances by nationalists took place in the regions of Central Asia of the former USSR. One example is the nationalist performances of the Kazakhs, in the late 70s, in the Gorky park in Alma-Ata, in the amount of several dozen people who threw stones at Russian passers-by and resting. Then newspapers did not write about this and much more .....
    3. sashka
      sashka 2 August 2013 01: 33 New
      +8
      Quote: svp67
      but closely monitor and adopt healthy things, does not interfere ...

      Like to shoot in the stadium? I'm all for it..
  2. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 1 August 2013 10: 27 New
    11
    Anglo-Saxons toss the coals there clearly .. They have time everywhere!
    1. King
      King 1 August 2013 11: 53 New
      +4
      Where the Americans are, there is always chaos
  3. Nomad
    Nomad 1 August 2013 10: 29 New
    +7
    And the buffer between China and Kazakhstan in the form of an independent Uyghurstan would not hurt us. Uigurs are not inclined to religious extremism (like all residents of Central Asia with a few exceptions), so this new state is unlikely to become a terrorist enclave like Kosovo.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 11: 53 New
      14
      Quote: Nomad
      so a new state is unlikely to become a terrorist enclave like Kosovo.


      Yeah, let's guess - will, will not. We also talked about the victory of freedom and democracy in Kosovo just now, and in the sediment we have the largest transshipment point of heroin in Europe.
      You noticed:
      .ETIM in the PRC is engaged in drug trafficking, as well as trafficking in people and weapons, in addition, members of this organization are involved in robberies and kidnapping for ransom. .
      .Ms. Rabiya Kadir, who represents the Uyghur movement and heads the World Uyghur Congress (WUK), lives in the United States. Where does the money from VUK come from? And it turns out that it is funded by the American Congress. .

      Great buffer good .
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 22 New
        +9
        Quote: Karlsonn
        . Where does the money from VUK come from? And it turns out that it is funded by the American Congress. ..

        Hi Alexey, just think, if the dollar ceases to be convectible, how many corrupt people will be left without a salary, damn country and presidents laughing
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 15: 28 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Hi Alexey, just think if the dollar ceases to be convectible


          Hello Sasha! No, thanks no it cracks so much in all countries, and for you and me, that everyone goes nuts.

          By the way, see:

          Uruguay celebrated the centenary of the only Russian city of San Javier in the southern hemisphere.

          http://baltijalv.lv/news/read/21241

          ... As the participants in the celebrations noted, the highlight of the event was the concert of the Kalinka dance ensemble, which has existed for many years at the Maxim Gorky Russian Club in San Javier ...

          Rehearsal of t / a Kalinka

        2. SOKOL777
          SOKOL777 2 August 2013 01: 49 New
          +1
          Brilliant! good hi
    2. Gur
      Gur 1 August 2013 13: 25 New
      18
      The appetite comes with the meal, and do you also agree to give the Kazakh territories where the Uigurs live to the buffer? "The second is that the Uyghurs are unlikely to abandon the idea of ​​creating an independent state. Many believe that an independent Uyghur state should geographically cover the territory of the XUAR, Chelik region of the Alma-Ata region of Kazakhstan and a number of eastern regions of Kyrgyzstan. And this is not fiction, this negotiated territory of the state of Uygurstan, for the creation of which, as was decided in 1996 at the World Uyghur Kurultai in Istanbul, it is necessary to wage an armed struggle. " And life is such an unpredictable thing, the Kurds throughout the 20-21 century have been fighting for non-dependence and for the creation of Kurdistan, and now they have survived to the situation when it is quite possible to do so. So there is nothing real.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 14: 27 New
        +8
        Quote: GUR
        The appetite comes with the meal, and do you also agree to give the Kazakh territories where the Uigurs live to the buffer? "The second is that the Uyghurs are unlikely to abandon the idea of ​​creating an independent state. Many believe that an independent Uyghur state should geographically cover the territory of the XUAR, the Chelik region of the Alma-Ata region of Kazakhstan and a number of eastern regions of Kyrgyzstan.


        Let me subscribe! good
        All this talk about the buffer and the struggle for "independence" - they are for discussion clubs in high school, in high school. hi
      2. Beck
        Beck 1 August 2013 20: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: GUR
        "Second, the Uighurs are unlikely to abandon the idea of ​​forming an independent state.


        And why should they leave her, this idea. Any people having their own state has the right to restore it.

        The territory of Xinjiang was also a part of the Uigur Kaganate. On the territory of Xinjiang, there was also Mogulistan, inhabited by Uighurs. And at one time there was a Uigur idikut.

        Xinjiang's real name is East Turkestan. This is when in 1759 imperial China captured East Turkestan and he called this region Xinjiang - the New Frontier. AND WHY THE UYGURS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR STATE within the XUAR.

        And the fact that religious movements, not always adequate, joined the liberation movement, do not cancel the very idea of ​​creating a Uyghur state.

        There was one historical moment when East Turkestan was half a step away from independence. This is in 1945-1948 years. An uprising broke out in Xinjiang, in which Kazakhs living in the Ili region of the XUAR also participated. Half of Xinjiang was liberated from the Chinese forces and the offensive continued. And then the Chinese took up purely Chinese business - cunningly flattering diplomacy. They were ready to recognize Xinjiang’s independence and invited the leadership of the uprising to Beijing to discuss all aspects of independence. They sent a plane. 17 leaders of the uprising flew to the capital. But the plane crashed and everyone died. The most plausible explanation is an airplane explosion. After the rebellion was beheaded, China gradually established its power.
        1. Gur
          Gur 2 August 2013 08: 28 New
          +4
          I personally do not mind, but only in favor, but I asked a question - is Kazakhstan ready to give its land for the creation of Uygurstan?
          1. Beck
            Beck 2 August 2013 16: 17 New
            +4
            Quote: GUR
            I personally do not mind, but only in favor, but I asked a question - is Kazakhstan ready to give its land for the creation of Uygurstan?


            Hello fellow countryman.

            I personally did not meet adequate Uyghurs who, together with the independence of the XUAR, to annex the lands of the Chilik, Narynkol, Chunjinsky districts of the Almaty region to it.

            I suppose the Uyghurs are people like the rest of the nations, that among them there are extreme chauvinists who want this, but I have not met such people.

            According to the story. In the years 1954-56 in the XUAR there was a great excitement of the masses. China has used force. And many Uighurs fled to the USSR, that is, the nearest Kazakhstan. And then they populated these three areas. And adequate Uyghurs understand this.

            And then, logically, the main task is to create an independent state. And what additional claims may be. The main thing to achieve. And the Uyghurs are smart people, they have nothing in the struggle for independence, with small claims, to oppose Kazakhstan.
            1. Gur
              Gur 5 August 2013 07: 46 New
              +1
              Hello ! I personally have also not seen those who are not individually adequate, although I do not know what is said in their communities, since they are clanish. (Well, or it seems to me that I was a couple of times at weddings) And in my post I quoted an excerpt from the article, so this is not my imagination. Well, if they can solve the problem with China, then everything can be. And here they can argue with China, which also claims to be part of Kazakhstan in flesh with Almaty.
              1. Beck
                Beck 5 August 2013 08: 01 New
                0
                Quote: GUR
                I personally have also not seen those who are not individually adequate, although I do not know what is said in their communities, since they are clanish.


                Well, clan wow. Uigurs even in big cities are divided into fraternities. For example, in Almaty, their fraternity roughly coincides with the administrative division into districts of the city. And in each such community the chosen leader. And the meetings of these communities are regular. And they discuss different things there. And I’m sure there are inadequate conversations about the “great” Uyghuria, but this is a household level, nostalgia for one’s state and Uyghur bullshit. But Uroshniki is not the prerogative of the Uyghurs. Artists do not recognize national boundaries. There are Kazakh handicrafts, Russian handicrafts, English handicrafts, Papua handicrafts.
        2. bubla5
          bubla5 3 August 2013 09: 21 New
          0
          HERE YOU ARE AMERICAS SUCH SMART, HERE AND BEGIN WITH YOURSELF, RETURN THE LAND TO THE INDIANS, SHOW AN EXAMPLE TO THE WORLD, AND ALSO BECAUSE ALL WITH YOUR BELL.
    3. SOKOL777
      SOKOL777 2 August 2013 01: 38 New
      +5
      Dear NOMAD!
      The buffer already exists (since the times of the USSR).
      I was in those parts. Uigurs hate ethnic Chinese since the days of Mao ...
      They will not marry them in the event of a conflict with Russia.
      But Kazakhstan will have serious problems with refugees, because on the border of China and Kazakhstan (Panfilov district), a lot of Uyghurs live.
      I saw whole villages there. stop negative
    4. Denb
      Denb 5 August 2013 20: 45 New
      0
      Kazakhs will follow Uyghurs !!! it is definitely!
  4. NOMADE
    NOMADE 1 August 2013 10: 31 New
    +6
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Anglo-Saxons toss the coals there clearly .. They have time everywhere!


    Yes, they are with everyone like that! This has always been different - England, especially the 19th and 20th centuries, while it was an "empire," then the United States passed the championship.
    After all, no one needs a strong player in the military-political arena!
    True, sooner or later they will finish the game, the “boomerang” will fly.

    As for the problems in China, it seems to be more convenient for us, but on the other hand, if the circumstances are unsuccessful (which is unlikely with the "correction" methods of the Chinese authorities). we can get another tense point, right at our side, with all the ensuing consequences.
    1. a52333
      a52333 1 August 2013 11: 11 New
      11
      The British should try to put them in a knee-elbow position and let the Irish with the Scots back to them.
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 1 August 2013 12: 23 New
        +4
        Well ... and then what?
        Watching the rampant blue-pink .. the Irish and the Scots themselves are capitalized .. for a sweet soul.
        But they will not look at these arrogant Saxons in the knee-elbow.
        .
        But in general, I'm a fool from the Americans. Well, governments, I see.
        Everywhere stir up.
        Stir up everyone.
        At first ... those who were jaded before - to rob.
        With their money - to give to those who are now - he is agitated. By secretly issuing them receipts, under arms and support. You think that the States are really scattered in money (read - weapons). Nah, someone will have to work out great. In the knee-elbow.
        How to rebalance - production comes. Earn money on these, tormented.
        Well, for the new denyushki - who else ... they will screw.
        And in a circle.
        Everything in business. Who is preaching, who is chasing Chinese police. Or Chechen hounds in the mountains. Who - shears grandmas.
        Everyone is working.
        .
        Bli-and-and-and-n, when will Russia begin that way.
        All sheep and lambs - cut!
        And do not comb them with wool.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 25 New
          +7
          Quote: Igarr
          Bli-and-and-and-n, when will Russia begin that way.
          All sheep and lambs - cut!

          I would not want Russia to cut sheep, like the United States. It’s better not to touch them at all, let them live as they want. Otherwise (in the American) case with a cry of Allah Akbar, the rams kill their strigunami. From time to time, but constantly.
          1. Beck
            Beck 2 August 2013 19: 13 New
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            From time to time, but constantly.


            Приветствуем!

            You, in PM, informed me that you gave me a warning for the word Shut up, addressed to the Sailor. I couldn’t answer in a personal way, so the plate goes out that tags like G ... n ... qid are not allowed to be published. So I didn’t publish it, I only wrote to you personally. Therefore, I answer on the page.

            I agree to the warning. The owner is Barin. But, what is not clear, my Shut up is the answer to the terrible call of the Sailor "For the Chinese there is the best way to solve all problems - to soak all the Uighurs!" And that my Shut up is worse than the call to "soak everyone." Sailor has no warning. This is that biased attitude.

            And here the master is the master. Only biased master.
            1. tungus-meteorit
              tungus-meteorit 2 August 2013 21: 44 New
              +5
              Peace to your home! That’s why I generally stopped posting my comments here on the forum - as double standards are practiced here. They do not notice their statements, inciting hatred, and when you write the truth, you don’t like it. How many times have I written on the website that different people live everywhere, both in Russia, in the Caucasus, and in Asia - there are both good and bad ones among them. There are, for example, hooligans and scum from the Caucasus, and there are Russian patriots among different Caucasian peoples, like me, for example, and there are such majority. But the local moderators do not want to notice this and the provocateurs inciting ethnic hatred here have a green light, but they will ignore fair comments. Of the friends of Russia they want to make her enemies? So I realized for a long time that this site is only for the "chosen ones". Only by whom are the "chosen ones"? State Department? Maybe I'm wrong in something, but facts are facts. Peaceful sky to all kind people above their heads! Congratulations to the paratroopers and veterans of the Airborne Forces with a holiday! Glory to all the defenders of the motherland!
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 3 August 2013 00: 04 New
                -2
                Quote: tungus-meteorit
                Peace to your home! That’s why I generally stopped posting my comments here on the forum - as double standards are practiced here. They do not notice their statements, inciting hatred, and when you write the truth, you don’t like it.


                You are not right.

                Quote: tungus-meteorit
                But the local moderators do not want to notice this and the provocateurs inciting ethnic hatred here have a green light, but they will ignore fair comments. Of the friends of Russia they want to make her enemies? So I realized for a long time that this site is only for the "chosen ones". Only by whom are the "chosen ones"?


                wrong again.
                1. tungus-meteorit
                  tungus-meteorit 24 August 2013 14: 27 New
                  0
                  What exactly is wrong? show me!
            2. Beck
              Beck 3 August 2013 10: 10 New
              +3
              Quote: Beck
              And here the master is the master. Only biased master.


              I did not immediately notice. You, Alexaedra, in your message, you have given me a warning

              "You violated the rules of the site, admitted in a comment:
              "And the last. Shut up" in the article Uyghur issue as an example of separatism policy.
              You have 2 violations. Site rules"


              That is, you are for one violation - Shut up, they gave me two warnings at once, or what? Nowhere in human relationships is there such that for one misconduct they give two punishments, even in jurisprudence.

              First, moderators should not have such bias.
              The second, such a defense of hate speech as that of the Sailor, suggests that you are a supporter of the actions for the total destruction of any peoples that you personally did not like.

              You belittle the moderator’s status by such actions. This repels other visitors from the site - an example below, a Tungus meteorite. Or is this your answer for our disagreement in many of the topics discussed on the site?

              I repeat. If personal Shut up, violation, then I accept the warning, but not two. And I don’t understand why calls for the extermination of peoples You leave without consequences.

              Quote: Karlsonn
              You are not right.

              Quote: Karlsonn
              wrong again.


              Carlson, these are your allegations, without argument. You, that point blank do not see the example of the Sailor and me.
              1. matross
                matross 3 August 2013 13: 02 New
                -5
                Quote: Beck
                calls for the extermination of peoples

                To make such statements, it is necessary the entire read the thread, and not grab pieces and then complain and cry to the moderators, and even publicly! I’m starting to understand why some people were let down from heaven at one time.
        2. CTEPX
          CTEPX 2 August 2013 06: 13 New
          +3
          Quote: Igarr
          But in general, I'm a fool from the Americans. Well, governments, I see.


          Quote: Igarr
          Bli-and-and-and-n, when Russia starts like that. All sheep and lambs-cut! And do not comb them with fur.

          Americans have the same attitude as sheep to a shepherd).
          What you described is just a "Jewish" way of life)).
          And this can only be opposed to the "Russian" way of life.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 11: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: NOMADE
      but on the other hand, in case of an unsuccessful combination of circumstances (which is unlikely under the methods of "correction" of the Chinese authorities). we can get another tense point, right at our side, with all the ensuing consequences.


      This is the most important thing, with us and so on the border where it doesn’t burn, it’s intense there.
      On a fig we need it?
      I hope China finds reasonable ways to solve this problem.
      1. matross
        matross 1 August 2013 15: 58 New
        -5
        Quote: Karlsonn
        I hope China finds reasonable ways to solve this problem.

        For the Chinese, there is the best way to solve all problems - to soak all the Uighurs! And no one will interfere and the population decline is relatively small! There are no Uighurs - there is no problem, we would have, damn it! So it would be better for the Uyghur comrades to quickly redirect from Islamists to Communists! And so they come to the “final solution of the Uyghur issue”!
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: matRoss
          For the Chinese, there is the best way to solve all problems - to soak all the Uighurs!


          What for?
          1. matross
            matross 1 August 2013 19: 26 New
            -7
            Quote: Karlsonn
            What for?

            In my opinion, this is obvious. Uighurs create problems. There will be no Uyghurs - they will not create problems. I wrote about this above. The only Chinese in the world have the opportunity to solve problems by physically eliminating these problems. But they do not use!
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 1 August 2013 22: 27 New
              0
              Quote: matRoss
              . The only Chinese in the world have the opportunity to solve problems by physically eliminating these problems.


              Wrong.
              1. matross
                matross 2 August 2013 10: 11 New
                0
                Quote: Karlsonn
                Wrong.

                If you do not want to come down to the objections in essence - just put a minus. Do not waste time with monosyllabic comments. This is disrespect to other forum users.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 15 New
                  -1
                  Quote: matRoss
                  If you do not want to come down to the objections in essence - just put a minus.


                  The time to destroy with impunity entire nations has irrevocably passed.

                  Quote: matRoss
                  The only Chinese in the world have the opportunity to solve problems by physically eliminating these problems.


                  Amer is just waiting for this, as an excuse to start "Drang nach China". Do you really think that a country has remained in the world that can independently cope with economic, political, even military-neutral pressure, from the whole world in response to genocide?

                  He answered no offense, I thought this was enough for you to think for yourself and come to a conclusion yourself. hi
                  1. matross
                    matross 2 August 2013 11: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: Karlsonn
                    Amer is just waiting for this, as an excuse to start "Drang nach China".

                    The screams will start for sure. A "trip to China" is unlikely. Be afraid to break teeth. And for Russia, as it were, it would be beneficial ... !!
                    But that’s all, of course, bare theorizing. The Chinese will not do this.
                    And about the fact that time has gone irrevocably, let me disagree with you. I think that soon we will all be convinced of this with horror. hi
                    1. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 2 August 2013 12: 10 New
                      0
                      Quote: matRoss
                      But that’s all, of course, bare theorizing. The Chinese will not do this.


                      And finally, we came to a general conclusion, that is what I was talking about. hi


                      Quote: matRoss
                      And about the fact that time has gone irrevocably, let me disagree with you. I think that soon we will all be convinced of this with horror.


                      Again, I do not agree, but here as they say - wait and see.
                      1. matross
                        matross 2 August 2013 12: 25 New
                        0
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        that's what I was talking about.

                        No, you said that I CALL for the genocide of unfortunate Uighurs! Well, okay, I think the dispute has already lost its meaning. The points of view are expressed. Good luck to you hi
                      2. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 2 August 2013 14: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: matRoss
                        Well, okay, I think the dispute has already lost its meaning. The points of view are expressed. Good luck to you


                        I agree.
                        Have a good day. drinks
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 1 August 2013 20: 14 New
        +4
        Quote: matRoss
        For the Chinese, there is the best way to solve all problems - to soak all the Uighurs! And no one will interfere and the population decline is relatively small! There are no Uighurs - there is no problem, we would have, damn it! So it would be better for the Uyghur comrades to quickly redirect from Islamists to Communists! And so they come to the “final solution of the Uyghur issue”!

        This is actually called "genocide." The problem here is not so much in the Uyghurs as in Islam, and the first thing to water is not the Uyghurs, but the Saudis, Qatars, and other Arabs. From them the infection goes along with the dough.
        1. CTEPX
          CTEPX 2 August 2013 06: 18 New
          +2
          Quote: Nagan
          First of all, it is necessary to wet the Uigurs, but the Saudis, Qatars, and other Arabs. From them the infection goes along with the dough.

          No, the Saudis, the Qatars, like the radical Islamists, are independent)).
          And you do not need to wet them, but you have to)).
        2. matross
          matross 2 August 2013 10: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: Nagan
          this is called genocide. The problem here is not so much in the Uyghurs as in Islam, and the first thing to water is not the Uyghurs, but the Saudis, Qatars, and other Arabs.

          As I understand it, from your words, that the genocide of the Uigurs is bad, and the genocide of the Arabs is good?
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 2 August 2013 21: 27 New
            +2
            The problem is not in the Arabs as a nation, but in Islam as an ideology. But the carriers and guides of this ideology are mainly Arabs. Even fanatics like the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban are secondary. Denazification did not lead to the destruction of all Germans. De-Islamization, in principle, should not lead to the destruction of all Arabs. But many will have to wet. The Nazi "millennial Reich" lasted only 12 years. Islam, unfortunately, lasted much longer and took deep roots that will have to be uprooted.
      3. Beck
        Beck 2 August 2013 01: 54 New
        +5
        Quote: matRoss
        For the Chinese, there is the best way to solve all problems - to soak all the Uighurs!


        YESAA!?!?!?

        This is necessary without any embarrassment. Kill all the Uyghurs and deal with the end. that is, PEOPLE.

        SUCH GENOCIDEOF THE HIGHEST FORM OF HUMAN HATICITY, OUTLINE, OFFICIALLY, FOR THE WHOLE WORLD ANNOUNCED ONLY Fascists.

        And here this is said by a man whom grandfathers broke the ridge of fascism. Sailor's recipe, in general, is applicable wherever there are problems. So that Russia doesn’t have problems, kill the Sailor of all the inhabitants of the North Caucasus. And Moldova will kill all the Russian Transnistria. Turks will kill all Kurds. Muslim Egyptians will kill all Coptic Christians. Blacks in South Africa will kill all of their European fellow citizens. Romanians will kill the Hungarians of Transylvania. And further.

        You don’t need to beat the sailor and do not beat you, but put him in a cage and not in a zoo, otherwise the animals will be offended, but in a cage on wheels and transport around the world, like an exhibit from the Kunst camera of the pathology of development.
        1. 4952915
          4952915 2 August 2013 04: 52 New
          +5
          Goethe seems to have said, "Honesty is a wonderful thing when everyone around is honest, and I'm the only crook." So do not be the only honest among crooks. No one is embarrassed to solve their national problems by any means available, except for Russia. The sailor, of course, is hyperbolizing, but the thought is right!
          1. matross
            matross 2 August 2013 11: 01 New
            -2
            Quote: 4952915
            The sailor, of course, is hyperbolizing, but the thought is right!

            Thanks for the support! I'm glad that not all of us are so rectangular.
        2. matross
          matross 2 August 2013 10: 50 New
          -4
          Wow, it’s just the "Rain" smell! Are you in your USA doing non-human rights activities for an hour?
          Quote: Beck
          Sailor's recipe, in general, is applicable wherever there are problems. So that Russia doesn’t have problems, kill the Sailor of all the inhabitants of the North Caucasus. And Moldova will kill all the Russian Transnistria. Turks will kill all Kurds. Muslim Egyptians will kill all Coptic Christians. Blacks in South Africa will kill all of their European fellow citizens. Romanians will kill the Hungarians of Transylvania. And further.

          It’s good that you understand this. This recipe is applicable and applies always and by all, if there is confidence in their own impunity. In our (not yours) country, it was widely used by Comrade Stalin for the last time. Well, you, of course, condemn him - repression, the Gulag archipelago and all that. And your country, which began its vile existence with the genocide of the Indians, uses this method without a twinge of conscience constantly, I will not give examples - they are known to everyone!
          Moreover, mind you, I did not call for the genocide of the Uighurs, to whom I, frankly, have nothing to do. I just noticed that, in my opinion, China is now able to solve this problem in this way, albeit speculative. However, instead of substantive objections, he received a bucket of slop on his head from the American advocate of morality and public morality. I will not answer you the same! I hope that your pathologies will not prevent you from further protesting your opponent on a less emotional level!
          1. Gur
            Gur 2 August 2013 10: 59 New
            +2
            ))))) He is Kazakh, where the Indians come from in Kazakhstan, there are only Indians, but they have no complaints about Kazakhstan))))) If only the Uighurs will go under the Indians, yes the Russians))
            1. matross
              matross 2 August 2013 11: 17 New
              0
              I am guided by the checkbox. But he is Amerovsky. A fiery human rights activist, he is fiery in Kazakhstan. General man, in a word.
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 2 August 2013 12: 12 New
                0
                Quote: matRoss
                I am guided by the checkbox.


                the flag is IP, it does not indicate the place of residence.
                I’m here in Kiev, but by the flag in the USSR! bully
          2. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: matRoss
            Wow, it’s just the "Rain" smell!


            And I thought fascism. Are you for genocide on ethnic grounds?
            How do your ideas to wet the Uyghurs differ from the ideas of the National Socialists to wet the Jews? As for me, both you and they decided to solve their problems by killing others.

            Quote: matRoss
            In our (not yours) country, it was widely used by Comrade Stalin for the last time.


            A liberal laughing pours coffee, settles comfortably
            - Well, well, dear, please expand in more detail (you, out of respect for the forum users, answer in detail, unlike a cattle like me?) as Stalin used genocide.
            1. matross
              matross 2 August 2013 12: 04 New
              -2
              Quote: Karlsonn
              You for genocide

              You are distorting. I am against genocide. And I did NOT call for genocide. I just suggested that China has the ability, based on its power and self-sufficiency, to implement it. Unlike other countries.
              Quote: Karlsonn
              , unlike a cattle like me

              You distort again. I did not insult you.
              Quote: Karlsonn
              how Stalin used genocide

              Cossacks, Chechens, Crimean Tatars, Volga Germans ... you can continue
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 2 August 2013 12: 23 New
                +1
                Quote: matRoss
                You are distorting. I am against genocide. And I did NOT call for genocide.


                Now I understand.

                Quote: matRoss
                I just suggested that China has the ability, based on its power and self-sufficiency, to implement it. Unlike other countries.


                We have already discussed this. winked

                Quote: matRoss
                You distort again. I did not insult you.


                Yes - they didn’t insult me, I waved my saber.

                Quote: matRoss
                Quote: Karlsonn
                how Stalin used genocide
                Cossacks, Chechens, Crimean Tatars, Volga Germans ... you can continue


                understand:
                Genocide refers to the following acts committed with the intention of destroying, in whole or in part, any national, ethnic, racial or religious group.
                The Cossacks do not fall under this definition, and how is Stalin actually involved in the repressions of the Cossacks?
                Volga Germans - a measure forced by the war, not to any degree genocide.
                Chechens, Crimean Tatars, ... you can continue - if, according to the law, for war crimes and treason all who should be deservedly punished, then these peoples will now die out at best --- then we could talk about genocide, and so the guilt of the criminals was differentiated for the whole nation and the people survived this antigenocide.
                1. matross
                  matross 2 August 2013 12: 46 New
                  +1
                  Yes, I agree with you, according to formal signs, the examples I cited do not fall under genocide. But if you ask the Crimean Tatars, for example, they would definitely not agree with us.
                  1. Karlsonn
                    Karlsonn 2 August 2013 14: 23 New
                    +1
                    Quote: matRoss
                    But if you ask the Crimean Tatars, for example, they would definitely not agree with us.


                    Exactly the same opinion of UNA-UNSO, Forest brothers and other traitors, I personally have little interest in their opinion.
                    I am glad to have dotted all the “ands” and eliminated the misunderstanding, and sorted out the controversial issues.
                    I hope in the future we will continue fruitful communication.
          3. Gur
            Gur 2 August 2013 13: 55 New
            +1
            Well, since you don’t care about the Uyghurs, what is it to throw such thoughts? It’s a direct hitler youth. According to such principles, only amers (maybe Jews) should remain on earth, since for them all the rest are not people, but a complete misunderstanding on their planet that prevents them from living. The situation is the same in the Middle East, the Sunni majority does not produce Shiite genocide, it just cuts out all over the East, but this does not concern you. On the one hand, we can look at China as a potential adversary, to note with satisfaction that there are interethnic contradictions that he is not a monolith like our country with its own problems. On the other hand, it’s their problems and they should solve them, like ours. But which way they will go, I think that the genocide is not beneficial to either the Chinese or the Uyghurs.
            1. matross
              matross 2 August 2013 15: 00 New
              0
              Quote: GUR
              . According to these principles, only amers (maybe Jews) should remain on earth, since for them all the rest are not people, but a complete misunderstanding on their planet that impedes their life

              Unfortunately, the whole human society is being built on such principles. And not only human. The strongest will survive. For example, the Chinese, to whom European morality is alien and unacceptable, and who have a completely different attitude to life and death. And I already wrote above that I am not calling for genocide - I expressed the opinion that it could possibly have been carried out by the Chinese authorities in relation to the Uighurs. Relatively unpunished. Because, as they say, without a sense of impunity for such a crime no one will dare. This is happening now in Myanmar (Burma), for example, and also with impunity - the scale, apparently, is not the same.
              And about the fact that the genocide is not beneficial to the Uyghurs, you very rightly noticed that! laughing
              Nevertheless, thanks for trying to substantiate the criticism. hi
              1. Gur
                Gur 5 August 2013 08: 10 New
                +1
                Well, I think you're wrong, and that is to say the least. You measure the world with the standards of colonial or fascist times, the Chinese themselves have experienced these times in their own skin. Maybe now the time and situation in the world is far from ideal, but no one will allow to commit genocide into the open to China. There is a high probability of an economic blockade or some other. And somehow your avatar is not compatible with your thoughts, and if you are (maybe) a person of Soviet origin, then thoughts like “Only the strongest will survive” are not of our ideology at all. Especially after some “strongest” have already tried to solve such a question in the world, and as a result, now on the position (universal and not economic) are far from the strongest. Another question is, if China will defend its integrity, and the issue with the Uyghurs is usually heated from the outside (and their assimilation by the Chinese began just after the excitement), then the situation may be the same as that of Russia in the Caucasus. And how China will solve this issue, this is another question because a guerrilla war is difficult and long for any even highly developed country, and even with the same attitude to death as the Chinese. (However, everyone wants to live, no matter how you twist and whatever ideology is)
          4. The comment was deleted.
            1. matross
              matross 2 August 2013 18: 34 New
              -3
              Quote: Beck
              SHUT UP.

              Do not be rude. You do not know my beliefs. And he got into the discussion himself. I did not call you to her. And I'm not a fascist. I have the honor!
        3. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 25 New
          0
          Beck Greetings comrade hi

          I see and am pleasantly surprised - how did you dismiss the minus signers?
          1. Beck
            Beck 2 August 2013 16: 52 New
            +3
            Quote: Karlsonn
            Greetings comrade

            I see and am pleasantly surprised - how did you dismiss the minus signers?


            I greet you too, my ideological and implacable opponent.

            Yeah, there were times when I sat with two skulls on the restriction of comments. My opinion. Less has become on the site of frantic uroshnikov. Which shirts on his chest were torn and pounded on the buttons with fists due to lack of arguments.
        4. Aldar kose
          Aldar kose 2 August 2013 14: 25 New
          +1
          Well answered! wink
  • Nayhas
    Nayhas 1 August 2013 10: 31 New
    12
    God forbid anyone to be in the place of the Uighurs, whom the Chinese are openly trying to "digest." The author is trying to attract the natural resistance of Uyghurs to Islamic extremism. Would the author want the Chinese to also surround the Chinese?
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 1 August 2013 11: 56 New
      +8
      Indeed, all commentators see the hand of the West, but no one notices that, in fact, the Chinese here are also not innocent lambs. If there had not been such an active policy of assimilation, then the Uyghurs would not have resisted.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 12: 00 New
      +5
      Quote: Nayhas
      Would the author want the Chinese to also surround the Chinese?


      The Russians once took Siberia from the Far East, populated by no means Russian. The Chinese took other territories. What are you talking about?


      Quote: Nayhas
      The author is trying to attract the natural resistance of Uyghurs to Islamic extremism.


      This is called separatism. Doku Umarov is that you?
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 1 August 2013 12: 33 New
        +8
        The Russians never tried to actively assimilate the local population and make Russians out of some Yakuts or Buryats. The Chinese are trying - that’s the whole difference. And a reasonable opposition from the Uyghurs.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 12: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: Basileus
          The Chinese are trying - that’s the whole difference. And a reasonable opposition from the Uyghurs.


          Western media write one thing, Chinese media write another - Do you actually believe whom? Or have you been to the XUAR in person recently? And can you tell us all exactly what is there: separatism or the struggle for self-determination and independence?
          1. Basileus
            Basileus 1 August 2013 13: 38 New
            0
            Do you distinguish between separatism and the struggle for independence? You would read the definition of separatism.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 1 August 2013 14: 30 New
              +2
              Quote: Basileus
              Do you distinguish between separatism and the struggle for independence?


              Do you always ignore your opponent’s questions and answer a question with a question? I repeat:


              Quote: Karlsonn
              Western media write one thing, Chinese media write another - Do you actually believe whom? Or have you been to the XUAR in person recently? And can you tell us all exactly what is there: separatism or the struggle for self-determination and independence?


              And yes, I distinguish.


              Quote: Basileus
              You would read the definition of separatism.


              What for? Did you forget him?
              1. Basileus
                Basileus 1 August 2013 14: 56 New
                +5
                Well then tell us how separatism differs from the struggle for independence.

                I believe what I see. But I see that on the outskirts of China there are non-Khan nationalities who for some reason do not want to become Hans.
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 28 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Basileus
                  But I see that on the outskirts of China there are non-Khan nationalities who for some reason do not want to become Hans.

                  Well, as we have in the early 90s in Chechnya. Or do you think there is a difference? We, too, some with shouts, Allahu Akbar and Kazan want to make independent, support or how wink
                  1. Basileus
                    Basileus 1 August 2013 15: 31 New
                    +6
                    On this issue, I already wrote above. No one tried to make Russian Chechens. As well as from Tatars, Bashkirs, Circassians, Yakuts, etc. Just baptized, and then a small percentage. The alien population is actively populated here, and the local population is becoming less and less.

                    And independent Kazan is nonsense, sorry. You should at least go there, and then on the Internet about the Tatars with the Bashkirs all the tales go, with reality having little in common.
                2. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 1 August 2013 15: 33 New
                  0
                  Quote: Basileus
                  Well then tell us how separatism differs from the struggle for independence.


                  Do you not know?

                  Quote: Basileus
                  I believe what I see.


                  Do you live in XUAR?

                  I have already reconciled with your style of discussion and the habit of not answering questions from your interlocutor - I propose that the discussion be curtailed as unproductive, I am not going to answer questions when mine are ignored.
                  With all due respect, Karlsonn. hi
                  1. Basileus
                    Basileus 1 August 2013 15: 36 New
                    0
                    Well, of course. As soon as uncomfortable questions arose, you immediately left the conversation. Probably hard to live like that.

                    So how is separatism, literally "isolation", different from the desire to separate?

                    Do you live in XUAR?

                    Where I live is indicated in my profile. Even next to the message, the flag is. Have you already canceled Internet with TVs in your latitudes?
                    1. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 22 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Basileus
                      Well, of course. As soon as uncomfortable questions arose, you immediately left the conversation. Probably hard to live like that.


                      With people who do not know how to conduct a discussion - boring, that's all.
                      A question-to-question dialogue is not for me.


                      Quote: Basileus
                      Probably hard to live like that.


                      You can’t even imagine how! What to do, where to run I don’t even know ... crying


                      Quote: Basileus
                      Have you already canceled Internet with TVs in your latitudes?


                      Once, one man was cowardly in a test tube with white powder — everyone believed it — there was no country.
                      Trust the TV and more.
                      1. Basileus
                        Basileus 2 August 2013 07: 22 New
                        0
                        Oh, how sad it is. We will never know how separatism differs from the desire to gain independence.

                        That is, when they show a test tube it is not known what, saying that there is a chemical. weapons and when they show the excitement of the very real Uighurs - is it the same thing?
                      2. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 33 New
                        0
                        Quote: Basileus
                        Oh, how sad it is. We will never know how separatism differs from the desire to gain independence.


                        My desire is not to discuss with someone who does not answer questions, but wants answers to their questions follows from banal logic.
                        But in the darkness of ignorance I won’t leave you - read my comment below.


                        Quote: Basileus
                        That is, when they show a test tube it is not known what, saying that there is a chemical. weapons and when they show the excitement of the very real Uighurs - is it the same thing?


                        Why are you distorting my words? I reminded you of the test tube after you said

                        Quote: Basileus
                        Have you already canceled Internet with TVs in your latitudes?


                        I pointed out earlier to you that today the veracity of the media is a big question

                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        Western media write one thing, Chinese media write another - Do you actually believe whom?


                        Quote: Basileus
                        Once, one man was cowardly in a test tube with white powder - everyone believed


                        It’s boring with you.
                      3. Beck
                        Beck 2 August 2013 17: 32 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Basileus
                        Oh, how sad it is. We will never know how separatism differs from the desire to gain independence.


                        If without scientific terminology, then I see this thing as follows.

                        Independence is when other people as part of the colonial empire, in the confederation, in the federation wants to restore its statehood.

                        Separatism is when part of one people wants to separate and create his own state. Examples in the revolutionary years. Volga Republic. Far Eastern Republic. The current desire of some Italian politicians to separate northern Italy and create a separate state.
        2. Scoun
          Scoun 1 August 2013 17: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Karlsonn
          Western media write one thing, Chinese media write another

          But the fact remains that the USA, wherever they can create hotbeds of tension and instability, how many revolutions they sponsored already ..
          Is not nothing, as the blessing of the West, which relates to the XUAR in the same way as it did to Chechnya. China's containment strategy openly proclaimed by the United States in 2011 year.

          The Chinese diaspora in the USA is very, very large, it’s time for them to respond with their own “fat” along the American, impudent face.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: Scoun
            But the fact remains that the USA, wherever they can create hotbeds of tension and instability, how many revolutions they sponsored already ..


            Yes, I do not argue with this.
        3. cdrt
          cdrt 1 August 2013 22: 03 New
          +1
          So, separatism and the struggle for independence and self-determination are one and the same. The choice depends only on the point of view ...
          Based on this, there is also a struggle for independence, it is separatism.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 1 August 2013 22: 50 New
            +3
            Quote: cdrt
            So, separatism and the struggle for independence and self-determination are one and the same. The choice depends only on the point of view ...
            Based on this, there is also a struggle for independence, it is separatism.


            So exactly soldier . Classically, the difference between these concepts is subjective (evaluative) in nature.
            But there is also an underwater distinction - in our time, a lot is used as a geopolitical weapon.
            My opinion (and not necessarily that it is correct) is as follows:
            - if the actions of the third force are completely excluded from the process and this process remains viable, then this is a struggle for independence.
            On the contrary, separatism.

            Separatism has an ultimate goal - the coming to power of "parochial" leaders, that is, a typical coup.
            The struggle for independence, as a form of revolution, has the ultimate goal - a radical change in the socio-political system.
            1. Basileus
              Basileus 2 August 2013 07: 32 New
              0
              But no, we still find out. That is a purely subjective opinion of one person. But why are you asking others when you make up your own definitions?
        4. Nayhas
          Nayhas 2 August 2013 06: 34 New
          0
          I know the situation of Uyghurs in China from a friend who served as a border guard in Kazakhstan, and from a friend who worked in Kazakhstan in the KGB (of course during the USSR). It is precisely the Uigurs who are assimilated, forcibly expelled to other provinces of China, especially young people, and the Chinese are resettled in the SUAO, of whom the vast majority are already. Only the Chinese rule everything, so the resistance of the Uyghurs is understandable. The Russians did not try to assimilate the peoples of Siberia and the Far East, there are no restrictions on participation in governance in the republics and autonomous okrugs, so this is not comparable.
          1. Egor.nic
            Egor.nic 2 August 2013 10: 19 New
            0
            Your imagination is rich - somewhere someone, somehow something, from someone and ..... blablabla. It is necessary to include a thought-room, analyze and operate on facts, and not engage in boltology.
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 3 August 2013 21: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: Basileus
        The Russians never tried to actively assimilate the local population and make Russians out of some Yakuts or Buryats.


        Count Alexei Konstantinovich Tolstoy (1817 - 1875)

        SONG ABOUT KATKOV, ABOUT CHERKASKY,
        ABOUT SAMARIN, ABOUT MARKEVICH AND ABOUT ARAPS

        1

        Friends, cheers unity!
        We will unite holy Russia!
        Differences, like outrages,
        I’m afraid of the people.

        2

        Katkov said that, to drive,
        Tolerate them is a sin!
        They must be squeezed, squeezed
        In the Moscow appearance of all!

        3

        Our core is the Slavs;
        But there are some things,
        Bashkirs, and Armenians,
        And even Kalmyks;

        4

        There are also Georgians
        (Convoy color and honor!),
        Both Latvians and Finns,
        And the Swedes also have;

        5

        Recently and Tashkent citizens
        They live in captivity.
        Confess eh? There are Germans
        But this: entre nous!

        6

        Fearing with Katkov fights,
        I whisper in my ear:
        We have n Poles,
        But also: entre nous;

        7

        And many others
        Our stock is plentiful;
        What a pity between them
        We have no Araps!

        8

        Then would Prince Cherkasy,
        Zeal is great
        They smeared them with white paint
        Their unspeakable face;

        9

        With the same zeal,
        And with the help of water
        Samarin would be rubbed with chalk
        Their black backsides;

        10

        Katkov, our duke of Alba,
        They would lengthen their nose
        Markovich would exclaim:
        "Hosanna! Axios! "

        April or May 1869
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 26 New
      +4
      Quote: Karlsonn

      This is called separatism. Doku Umarov is that you?

      No, it's called the Voice of America on the site. laughing
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 24 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        No, it's called the Voice of America on the site.


        I am already in the know wink .
        He was terribly afraid of his uncomfortable questions, put on his helmet and jumped into the trench. soldier
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 1 August 2013 10: 31 New
    +1
    As a layman, “be afraid of Danians bringing gifts,” I don’t understand anything in your “polititka”, but I’m just living in the territory of South Primorye; and I’ll notice ... not one of your Deputies ... but on the border ... bitches ... and they won’t give ...
    1. Coward
      Coward 1 August 2013 14: 02 New
      +4
      "Must have a bite"
      When reading, recall the intonation and voice of Anton Semenovich Shpak.
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 1 August 2013 10: 36 New
    -1
    Remember one thing .... never a Chinese, (coming to us will not forget !!!). And in accordance with the general opinion of the western parties of the RSFSR, the cons, as I read, do not affect my salary! ......
    1. Gur
      Gur 1 August 2013 13: 06 New
      +7
      I don’t understand what the hell you wrote ..? Some scraps of phrases ....
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 1 August 2013 13: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: GUR
        I don’t understand what the hell you wrote ..? Some scraps of phrases ....



        I saw how they write a capsule, but to WAS !!! laughing
        1. Gur
          Gur 1 August 2013 13: 38 New
          +3
          Yeah, something like - In the thickets of the south would live citrus, yes a magnificent specimen
          (telegraph training text)
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 1 August 2013 14: 32 New
            +3
            Quote: GUR
            Yeah, something like - In the thickets of the south would live citrus, yes a magnificent specimen
            (telegraph training text)


            I think this is a CIA agent cipher to the center about the current situation with Snowden.
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 30 New
        +3
        Quote: GUR
        I don’t understand what the hell you wrote ..? Some scraps of phrases ....

        Yes, this is an encrypted message from one agent to another laughing
  • ed65b
    ed65b 1 August 2013 10: 49 New
    12
    we still have to worry about the Uighurs. Let it be a problem for China. We have no need for an independent Uygur; they will separate from China and go to Kazakhstan. Although the Chinese are likely to cut them all than let them go.
  • pinecone
    pinecone 1 August 2013 10: 53 New
    +4
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Anglo-Saxons toss the coals there clearly .. They have time everywhere!



    It should be noted that separatist sentiments among the indigenous population of Xinjiang are also largely fueled by Turkey.
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz 1 August 2013 10: 54 New
    +1
    nothing the Chinese temporarily rose, but they would quickly be lowered to the ground. The Türks bent them all history, the Uyghurs and even the Manchus captured it, and not this nation of rats.
    1. Contrpropaganda
      Contrpropaganda 1 August 2013 12: 19 New
      +4
      Quote: Yeraz
      The Türks bent their whole history

      What other Turks, dear?
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz 1 August 2013 12: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: Contrpropaganda
        Quote: Yeraz
        The Türks bent their whole history

        What other Turks, dear?

        Look on the internet for who these Türks are. I’m not one of those who give great links here.
        1. Contrpropaganda
          Contrpropaganda 2 August 2013 09: 47 New
          0
          Dear, you do not understand. You need to search. Examples of how
          Quote: Yeraz
          The Türks bent their whole history
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 1 August 2013 22: 10 New
        -1
        1. Ancestors of the Turkic peoples of the Huns
        2. Ancient Turks of the Great Turkic Haganate
        This is offhand
    2. Legioner_YU
      Legioner_YU 1 August 2013 12: 33 New
      +5
      via translit

      Hmm ... Compare Chinese Civilization with a history of more than 4700 years, achievements of the Celestial Empire, contribution to world history, the current military-economic situation as one of the world powers, to call them "rats" and how nomadic Turks will lower them from heaven - causes no more smile :)
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz 1 August 2013 12: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: Legioner_YU
        Hmm ... Compare Chinese Civilization with a history of more than 4700 years, achievements of the Celestial Empire, contribution to world history, the current military-economic situation as one of the world powers, to call them "rats" and how nomadic Turks will lower them from heaven - causes no more smile :)

        It was these nomads who brought down great China. Although they always had an absolute advantage, they were bent down, and then the Japanese drove them all their history.
        The Mongol comrades said they look like rats, the numbers are like rats and live like rats.
        1. Legioner_YU
          Legioner_YU 1 August 2013 12: 54 New
          +6
          via translit

          Well, yes, they "let us down" - we see the result today :)) It is fun to read how the "whole history" the Japanese drove them (interesting where and where).
          Well, isn't it your Mongol comrades with their "Aryan" appearance, who have not even built a single subject of civilization for their entire existence, to call the Chinese "rats :)
          Looks like you in those parts have never been before Cadi so argue.
          And in the rest - the flag is in the hands of your nomads and on Katay! :))) (they can be cancer in advance).
          Farewell! With all the interest of the topic, lunch time ends - I envy those who can fast here for a long time :)
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 36 New
            +3
            Quote: Legioner_YU
            And in the rest - the flag is in the hands of your nomads and on Katay! :))) (they can be cancer in advance).

            This flag China they put in one place laughing
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 35 New
          +3
          Quote: Yeraz
          The Mongol comrades said

          There are no more great Turks, no more Roman empire, no more third Reich, no more Spanish colonies and great England. Now there is both economically and politically powerful China. There is nothing to say about the Chinese Armed Forces, they’ll not just bend all of Mongolia, but also those who will be around.
          1. Essenger
            Essenger 1 August 2013 15: 48 New
            +6
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            No more great Turks

            There may not be great ones, but ordinary Turks still have at least 200 million left.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 55 New
              +2
              Quote: Essenger
              but ordinary Turks still have at least 200 million left.

              So what?
              1. Essenger
                Essenger 1 August 2013 16: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Quote: Essenger
                but ordinary Turks still have at least 200 million left.

                So what?

                I mean, do not compare the Romans and Turks. The Romans are gone, but there are Turks. If they really want, then you can restore your greatness.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 32 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Essenger
                  I mean, do not compare the Romans and Turks. The Romans are gone, but there are Turks.


                  voice from the underground

                  Citizens living in the city of Rome - terribly surprised.

                2. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 2 August 2013 03: 57 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Essenger

                  I mean, do not compare the Romans and Turks. The Romans are gone, and the Turks are

                  How are there no Romans ??? And who lives in Rome?
                  Quote: Essenger
                  If they really want, then you can restore your greatness.

                  To restore, you need a leader, but there is no leader and there will not be one, since all modern bays are venal for the very tomatoes. For whom it is more profitable, they lie under one.
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 2 August 2013 04: 41 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    How are there no Romans ??? And who lives in Rome?

                    Chinese Arabs Albanians and so forth and so forth wassat Hi hi drinks Happy Airborne soldier drinks
          2. Yeraz
            Yeraz 1 August 2013 16: 54 New
            +3
            [quote = Alexander Romanov] [quote = Yeraz] The Mongol comrades said, [/ quote]
            There are no more great Turks, no more Roman empire, no more third Reich, no more Spanish colonies and great England. Now there is both economically and politically powerful China. There is nothing to say about the Chinese Armed Forces, they’ll not just bend all of Mongolia, but also those who will be around. [/ Qui
            So what? Previously, the Chinese were no less developed, but they were always bent and the Vietnamese gave them, although in all respects the Chinese have a lot of superiority
            And you are very vain about the Mongols, for 5 years of studying with him you really understood why they were the head of this nomadic wave. 1 costs 10 Chinese and more, and if the Mongols drink their national vodka called Genghis Khan ooo, it starts so that they woke up all the officers at night so that to reassure the thunders of the Mongols, who cut off their fingers and each other and what they just didn’t do. We still made fun of drinking Genghis Khan in each of them Genghis Khan appeared)))
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 2 August 2013 03: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: Yeraz
              So what? The Chinese used to be

              The main word WAS! Now there is China and this is a completely different China. Or do you not see at all?
        3. Egor.nic
          Egor.nic 2 August 2013 10: 26 New
          0
          Do not sprinkle poison. This is not a noble cause. History shows that the development of any civilization goes in a spiral - rise, prosperity and decline. And, where the great Turkic Khaganate fell (lowered) below the baseboard ...
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: Yeraz
      nothing the Chinese temporarily rose, but they will quickly be lowered to the ground

      Who will bring China to earth? Now China, if it wants to many, it will lower itself not only to the earth, but also generally lower the word in all senses.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Who will bring China to earth?


        whisper from the trench

        knowledgeable people say:

        Quote: Yeraz
        1 costs 10 Chinese and bigger, and if the Mongols drink their national vodka called Genghis Khan


        so I think - mongolian cavalry soldier



        comrade Yeraz - no offense - I decided purely to make fun, I myself will not sit down with Buryats to drink vodka winked
    4. Scoun
      Scoun 1 August 2013 18: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: Yeraz
      Uigur and then captured the Manchus

      The Uighurs last defeat and drove into the current territory of the Kyrgyz, and before that, for example, the Yenisei (Ene-mother sai river) Kyrgyz were pressed by the Uyghurs
      (recently read by reading Gumilyov)
      Bai-rich kel-lake Baikal also remembered the truth, from which language group I do not know the same Buryats, Kalmyks are not Türks? Well, I'm not strong at this.)))
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 2 August 2013 06: 45 New
        +3
        Quote: Scoun
        Uigurs last defeat and drove to the current territory of the Kyrgyz Republic

        The Uighurs lost with the whites, the Kyrgyz won with the reds).
  • tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 1 August 2013 10: 56 New
    -4
    Well, these are something that are not divided then? Onizhe su.ka, even for one face everything, fuck you disassemble a Uyghur or a Chinese, how to identify your own? laughing But attacking a police station on motorbikes with long knives and sticks is tin, although not great.
    1. svp67
      svp67 1 August 2013 11: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: tilovaykrisa
      Onizhe su.ka, even for one face everything, fuck you disassemble a Uyghur or a Chinese, how to identify your own?
      There will be a desire and strength read - "The History of the Khun Empire" by Gumelev, you will immediately understand everything ...
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 12: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: tilovaykrisa
      Onizhe su.ka, even for one face everything, fuck you disassemble a Uyghur or a Chinese, how to identify your own?


      It seems to me that we are the same for the Chinese.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 37 New
        +5
        Quote: Karlsonn
        It seems to me that we are the same for the Chinese.

        One Chinese told me that for many years he had already lived in Ussuriysk, but he was not used to the same Russian faces wassat
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 47 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          One Chinese told me that for many years he had already lived in Ussuriysk, but he was not used to the same Russian faces


          I heard that drinks
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 1 August 2013 22: 15 New
        0
        From Mimino episode:
        Georgians (Kikabidze) and a nosy Armenian (Mkrtchan) ride in the elevator
        Two Japanese come in, one says to the other:
        - These Russians are all on one face laughing
    3. Yeraz
      Yeraz 1 August 2013 12: 45 New
      +3
      Quote: tilovaykrisa
      Well, these are something that are not divided then? Onizhe su.ka, even for one face everything, fuck you disassemble a Uyghur or a Chinese, how to identify your own?

      Well, it seems so to you. Before, I also thought so until 5 years with the Mongols did not study. TOTALLY MISCELLANEOUS! Also, the Uyghurs from the Chinese are taller and their eyes are wider. I also distinguish Japanese, but I can confuse them with Koreans, there is little communication with the native , basically it's semi Russian Koreans))
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 13: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Yeraz
        Well, it seems so to you. Previously, it also seemed to me like this until 5 years with the Mongols did not study there.


        Yes sir! After a stretch of life, you’ll distinguish side by side, just like a typical Spaniard from a typical Finn.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 1 August 2013 11: 02 New
    10
    The Chinese comrades are left with very little patience ... 2014 Americans shed from Afghanistan, in 2015 the PRC will send troops to Afghanistan under the banner of the fight against terrorism and drug trafficking ... and will remain there forever ... the Chinese can settle the Afghan population .. 10- 15 million compatriots, and there is a cross natural pantry, access to Iran.
  • Apollo
    Apollo 1 August 2013 11: 14 New
    10
    Good afternoon, Oleg!

    I read your review and would like to share my thoughts. It is no secret that the Anglo-Saxons have always intervened and are interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign states, while trying to rock the boat of this or that state. They are absolutely indifferent to the fate of ordinary people. For them, their geopolitical interests are important. Uyghur splash China is not accidental. In my opinion, linking Uyghur protests with the filing of only Americans is fundamentally wrong.
    The Uyghurs are a very ancient people and have a rich and eventful history. I have always been fascinated by the history of many peoples, including the Uyghurs. The oppression of the Uyghurs takes place and it is simply impossible to deny this fact. The Chinese leadership is fundamentally wrong in pursuing policies regarding small nations. Essentially, there is assimilation of the Uyghur people. Harassment is not only at the cultural level in the form of restrictions on the use of the native language, lack of television and radio broadcasting in the native language, everything is done to limit the number of the Uyghur people, it even came to the point that the Chinese massively migrate to the places of compact residence of the Uyghurs and all this happens with the active support of the central leadership, mass unemployment among the Uyghurs, poor medical care, etc. forces the Uyghurs to protest against arbitrariness. a very large number of Uyghurs fleeing repression found refuge in the countries of Central Asia, Russia and Kazakhstan, as well as Europe.

    video footage in the topic
    Uyghur story


    from the history of Uyghur red Turkestan, I’m not mistaken, there was such a republic where the Uyghurs communists were at the head of the country


    Uyghurs photo selection

    Uyghur dance

    Uyghur wedding

    Uyghur song yar uchin
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 12: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: Apollon
      a very large number of Uigurs fleeing repression found refuge in the countries of Central Asia, Russia and Kazakhstan


      Welcome hi , but haven't the Uighurs settled in Central Asia since the time of King Pea? If cho, I am aware that at the moment about 95% of Uyghurs live in China. repeat
    2. Kasym
      Kasym 1 August 2013 22: 13 New
      +4
      Apollo, welcome! Remember (unfortunately) such a singer, Myrat Nasyrov.
      “You are me, I am you .... from his song.”
      Many, for sure, remember him. So here he is yygyr by nationality. From Kazakhstan, Alma-Ata.
      1. Apollo
        Apollo 1 August 2013 22: 32 New
        +2
        Quote: Kasym
        Apollo, welcome!


        Mutually respected Dauren hi
        Quote: Kasym
        Remember (unfortunately) such a singer, Myrat Nasyrov.
        “You are me, I am you .... from his song.”


        I remember of course, how can it be forgotten ?!

        Quote: Kasym
        Many, for sure, remember him. So here he is yygyr by nationality. From Kazakhstan, Alma-Ata.


        The fact that he was a Uighur, I certainly knew, but the fact that he was originally from Alma-Ata, of course not.

      2. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 22: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: Kasym
        So here he is yygyr by nationality. From Kazakhstan, Alma-Ata.


        I had a school friend in Khabarovsk, a Uyghur also from those parts.
    3. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 2 August 2013 10: 23 New
      +2
      In 1921, at the Assembly of Central Asian Peoples in Tashkent, Academician Berthold proposed calling the farmers from East Turkestan Uighurs. The fact is that earlier they called themselves in different ways, basically there was the name "taranch" - farmers. Taranchis have exactly the same relation to the Uyghur civilization as all the Turkic peoples of Central Asia. In this case, today's Uyghurs are just namesakes of those.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 37 New
        0
        Quote: Asan Ata
        In 1921, at the Assembly of Central Asian Peoples in Tashkent, Academician Berthold proposed calling the farmers from East Turkestan Uighurs.


        what
        1. Beck
          Beck 2 August 2013 17: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Karlsonn
          Quote: Asan Ata
          In 1921, at the Assembly of Central Asian Peoples in Tashkent, Academician Berthold proposed calling the farmers from East Turkestan Uighurs.


          This is a failure. In those years, the Uyghur state did not exist. And the Uighurs themselves called themselves countrymen - Kuldzhin fellow countrymen, Tarim fellow countrymen. And everything in the heap is also fellow countrymen. Berthold simply suggested returning the ancient name to historiography.

          During the time of the Turkic Kaganate, 6-7 centuries, the Uighurs were nomads and wandered along with other Turks along the steppes of present-day Mongolia. But they did not have a relationship with the ruling dynasty of Ashin, and the leader of the Uigurs Yaglakar led his people to the mountains of Big Khingan, almost to western Manchuria. After the death of the leader, the heirs of the house of Jaglakar, did not forget the insult. And having improved the moment when the main army of the Khaganate was on the campaign, they attacked the headquarters and the Turkic Khaganate ceased to exist. Uigurs reigned in the steppe. But not for long. They were defeated by the ancestors of modern Kyrgyz, the Yenisei Kyrgyz. After that, the Uighurs moved to Xinjiang.

          By the way. Before the adoption of Islam, the Uighurs professed Manichaeism. And the Türkic tribes Naiman and Kereit (now part of the Kazakhs) are Nestorian-style Christianity. I won’t know how in the far Asian steppe, to distant lands from their centers, in those days these religions came.
    4. sasha.28blaga
      sasha.28blaga 2 August 2013 13: 58 New
      0
      Apollon, thank you very much for the video compilation, I read the article two days ago, but with sound only today. Damn, I’ve been living for forty years and I don’t know X-E-R-A.
      In short, my opinion is FREEDOM TO PEOPLE OF UGURS. The Chinese are not their comrades, fact!
    5. SIT
      SIT 5 August 2013 14: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Apollon
      Uyghur surge in China is not accidental

      The struggle of the Uyghurs for their self-determination will be used completely for other purposes. They are only a detonator for undermining China, like the North Caucasus for Russia. The response time of this detonator is the end of a showdown with Syria and Iran. The whole situation in the Islamic world rests on the fact that Iran does not support the Saudis. As soon as it falls, Wahhabism will sweep across the entire Middle East and Central Asia, and from there creeping terrorism will flood into Russia and China. The economies of these countries are very vulnerable. Now there is no need for Army Group Center to rush to Moscow. 70 thousand are going to Navruz Bayram on Prospect Mira. They are already there. Blowing up oil pipelines and gas pipelines is just the thing for new demolitions. The Chinese economy can be brought down by mass terrorist attacks in industrial areas and sabotage on dams - flood water will wash away hundreds of millions of people. This is the scenario of the 3rd world currency after which, as well as after the 2nd world currency, the dollar will again become the world currency, as major lenders will be destroyed. The Uighurs here are just pawns that will be sacrificed in the endgame when the time comes for China after Iran and Russia.
  • KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 1 August 2013 12: 08 New
    +2
    Kyrgyz and Uighurs are the only Türks from ancient times to retain their name. We have always been ourselves and have participated in almost all state entities on our side of the world. And of course, they conflicted with each other a little less than always.
    1. hrych
      hrych 1 August 2013 12: 42 New
      +6
      And here is how their contemporaries from China describe the Yenisei or ancient Kyrgyz:

      Extract from the “Tang Dynasty History” about the Kyrgyz: “The inhabitants are generally tall, with red hair, with a ruddy face and blue eyes. Black hair was not considered a good sign, but with brown eyes was revered by the descendants of Li Lin (that is, Chinese. - To D.) "(Bichurin N. Ya. [Iakinf]. A collection of information about the peoples who lived in Central Asia in ancient times M.-L.: Academy of Sciences of the USSR, Miklouho-Maclay Institute of Ethnography, 1950).

      Taipinghuanyuji, ch. 199, p. Pa - 146. reports: “Their inhabitants with their bodies are all tall and great, with red hair, with green eyes. Having black hair is called unlucky. For in “Siyuji” (“Notes on the Western Land”), written by Jia Hui, it says: “Those with black hair and black eyes are descendants of Li Ling” (Kuner I.V. Chinese news about the peoples of South Siberia, Central Asia and the Far East), Moscow: Publishing House of Oriental Literature, 1961).

      The Yenisei Kyrgyz, as noted above, have no relation to modern Kyrgyz, except that they are of the same name. Abul-ghazi once wrote: “There are very few real Kyrgyz left now; but this name is now appropriated to itself by the Mongols and others who have migrated to their former lands. ”

      Abu Said Gardisi reported, in particular, during the reign of the Ghaznavid Sultan Abd al-Rashid (1050-1053): “The reason for the unification of the Kyrgyz under the authority of their superior was as follows. He came from the Slavs and was one of the Slavic nobles; when he lived in the country of the Slavs, an ambassador from Rum arrived there; this man killed that ambassador. The reason for the murder was that the Rumians came from Shem, the son of Noah, and the Slavs from Yaphet. ”

      These are such quotes.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. hrych
          hrych 1 August 2013 13: 23 New
          +4
          The continuation of the work of Abu Side Gardisi "DECORATION OF LITHUANIA", you want to laugh, you want not:

          To the tribe that gathered near him, he gave the name of the Kyrgyz. When the news of him came to the Slavs, many of them came to him with their families and property, joined others and became related to them, so that all merged into one. Signs of Slavic origin are [still] visible in the appearance of the Kyrgyz, namely red hair and white skin.

          http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus7/Gardizi/frametext_1.htm
      2. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 1 August 2013 13: 15 New
        +4
        You tell this to modern geneticists that the current Kyrgyz and the ancients are 2 of different people laughing the Chinese are closer to the truth than this Middle Eastern storyteller.
        1) The haplogroup R1a is the most common gene among the Slavs; it is found at the same frequency in modern Kyrgyz. The Chinese correctly describe everything.
        2) Kyrgyz, Khakasses, Tuvans, Altays - at that time one people.
        1. hrych
          hrych 1 August 2013 13: 50 New
          +4
          Abulgazi, Abu l-Ghazi-khan (Abul-ghazi, Bagadur-khan, Abulgazi Bagadirkhan) (Uzbek. Abulgʻozi Bahodirxon, August 24, 1603, Urgench-1664, Khiva) - Khiva khan Shibanid, from the descendants of Genghis Khan, also known as a historian .
          So the storyteller is not just a historian, but a Khiva shah from the descendants of Genghis Khan.
          Yes, and Gardisi, if it refers to Ibn Khordadbeh, Ceyhani and Ibn al-Mukaffa and naturally Biruni.
          And in those days, a chronicle of Persian kings, rogues will not be assigned.
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 14: 50 New
          +5
          Quote: KG_patriot_last
          1) The haplogroup R1a is the most common gene among the Slavs; it is found at the same frequency in modern Kyrgyz. The Chinese correctly describe everything.
          2) Kyrgyz, Khakasses, Tuvans, Altays - at that time one people.


          I'm tired of arguing on this subject - a waste of time ... sad

          In general, as follows:
          - Their wall of China is a dilapidated fence of the garden of the ancient Slavic village;
          - their elephants are Old Russian mammoths, only shredded and bald:
          - Atlantis was drowned by one of the ancient Russian tribes, this

          Quote: hrych
          - from Yafet


          since it got sick all the time to swim around him.

          and in general ... Slavs appeared on Earth long before representatives of other peoples. Previously, the term “earth” had the same meaning as the Greek name “planet”, i.e. a celestial object moving in its orbit around the sun.
          Our Earth was called Midgard, where "mid" or "middle" means middle, "guard" - city, city, i.e. the middle world (remember the shamanistic idea of ​​the structure of the Universe, where our Earth was connected with the middle world).
          About 460 500 years ago, our ancestors landed at the north pole of Midgard-Earth. Since that period, our planet has undergone significant changes, both climatic and geographical. ...
          fellow something like that.
          1. hrych
            hrych 1 August 2013 17: 38 New
            +7
            First things first, about "Yaphet": When representatives of the Abramic religions write the annals, naturally races are designated according to the traditions of writing. In the words of the Arab chronicler, if it’s not very clear, it means that the anti-Semite soaked the Semites and nothing more fantastic.
            My reference is not to Fomenko, or even to Slavic annals, but to chroniclers recognized by the official science, not noticed in sympathy for the Russians, and the reliability of the information, which apparently does not cause any doubts.
            Secondly, besides the chroniclers, there is, more precisely, science - genetics, which with anthropology and archeology, as a rule, confirm the authenticity of the chronicles (there are simply no other sources of history). So closer to the matter, if now the anthropological type of Uyghurs is 30% European and 70% Mangoloid, then the Toharas who lived in Xinjiang earlier are described by the chronicles of their neighbors and provided us with their mummies, which gave R1a1a during a genetic study, and the orcheologists got their letters with Indo-European language.
            You can of course laugh at the delusions of Fomenko and co., But if you take a fool at the official sciences and chronicles, then excuse this no less nonsense than Levashov and other Midgard. Especially if people tearing a goat a couple of thousand years ago, it continues to do this in the 21st century, and someone built cities, pyramids, etc. a couple of thousand years ago, but in the 20th century they invented a telephone, a television, a nuclear reactor and an astronaut in orbit. That's when they say that the Kozloders built the Great Wall, it is hard to believe, especially if now there is no mind, and when the Gagarin people are denied the opportunity to build a tower a couple of thousand years ago, then it’s at least illogical. Although you have your own logic hi .
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 1 August 2013 18: 51 New
              +1
              Quote: hrych
              Secondly, besides the chroniclers, there is, more precisely, science - genetics, which with anthropology and archeology, as a rule, confirm the authenticity of the chronicles (there are simply no other sources of history)


              I agree.

              Quote: hrych
              You can of course laugh at the delusions of Fomenko and


              But to laugh from these - don’t feed bread laughing

              Quote: hrych
              but if you take a glance at the official sciences and chronicles, then excuse this no less nonsense than Levashov and the other Midgard.


              I agree.

              Quote: hrych
              That's when they say that the goats-men built the Great Wall, it is hard to believe,


              I knew that their wall is our village fence, so that cattle do not wander !!!

              Quote: hrych
              and when the Gagarin people are denied the opportunity to build a tower a couple of thousand years ago, then at least it’s illogical


              Gagarin people ?! belay I don’t know this request

              looking online Gagarin people and the legendary tower with the inscription - "Vasya was here!"


              Quote: hrych
              Although you have your own logic


              Yeah, I took my own from here - Georgy Chelpanov
              "Textbook of logic"
      3. Beck
        Beck 2 August 2013 18: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: hrych
        Extract from the “Tang Dynasty History” about the Kyrgyz: “The inhabitants are generally tall, with red hair, with a ruddy face and blue eyes.


        This suggests that in those days, assimilation has not yet fully occurred.

        Until the 1st century, the entire vast territory of modern Kazvakhstan, Wed Asia, half of Xinjiang, Southern Siberia to the Yenisei were inhabited by Indo-Europeans, Iranian-speaking Arians. From the 2nd century BC, during the strengthening of the Turkic-speaking Huns and the creation of their own state, the assimilation of the Yenisei Aryans and the Hunnic Turks began. So they describe the Chinese chronicles of these mestizos. But since the Huns were dominated, the language became Turkic. In the 1st century, the Huns broke up and part of the Huns was transferred to Xinjiang and southeastern Kazakhstan where the Aryans - the Ephthalites, Saks, Massagets and others with the Huns were assimilated. In the second century, another part of the Huns moved to northern Kazakhstan and the Volga region where the Huns were assimilated with the Asian Scythians, Sarmatians, Sauromats (also Arians), and Finno-Finns. And already in the 4th century, this cross, but speaking the Turkic language, under the Europeanized name of the Huns, went to derban Europe. And in the 6th century, during the time of the Turkic Kaganate, the arias of Central Asia were assimilated.

        In the Kazakh language, probably 20 percent of the words are words of Iranian-speaking Aryans. Nur is luminous, penetrated by light. Tolkyn is a wave. The camp is land and so on. And the names of Rustam, Madi are the names of the Aryans. And Kazakhs have people with red hair and gray eyes. I myself was born red with gray eyes, but with a return, my hair darkened and my eyes became red. And the redness came to a small percentage because they were in contact with the Manchus, and with the Chinese, and with the Mongols, and with the Dzungars, and with Khitan, and with Kara-China.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: KG_patriot_last
      Kyrgyz and Uighurs are the only Türks from ancient times to retain their name.

      What kind of card? Dreaming of an empire
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 1 August 2013 16: 52 New
        +1
        Learn the story, find out what kind of card. He brought in to reinforce his words that the Kyrgyz and Uighurs retained their self-name through the ages (from the Türks).

        Karlsonn
        liquid reptiloid is strongly laughing
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 52 New
          +2
          Quote: KG_patriot_last
          liquid reptiloid is strongly


          most importantly, FIG who will prove that this was not.
        2. ed65b
          ed65b 1 August 2013 18: 21 New
          -1
          Quote: KG_patriot_last
          Learn the story, find out what kind of card. He brought in to reinforce his words that the Kyrgyz and Uighurs retained their self-name through the ages (from the Türks).

          Karlsonn
          liquid reptiloid is strongly laughing

          I’ll draw you such cards in three minutes, there won’t even be a Russian globe. stop fooling people.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 1 August 2013 18: 53 New
            +2
            Quote: ed65b
            I’ll draw you such cards in three minutes, there won’t even be a Russian globe.


            the place is already taken, there is only a globe of ancient ukrov! bully
        3. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 2 August 2013 03: 51 New
          0
          Get fucked up, the first card contradicts the second. You’ll already decide what kind of kakanat was on this place, otherwise some bullshit. Russia was there, Mongolia was, China was, Nomad was, but the Turkic Khaganate was not laughing
          1. KG_patriot_last
            KG_patriot_last 2 August 2013 14: 50 New
            +2
            I am surprised by such uneducated people ... The map does not contradict each other for one simple reason: they existed at different time intervals, divided into 3-5 centuries. There was also the Uyghur state, the Turgesh, Karakhanid and a lot of others in the same territories.
            From the statements of such people, just hunting is laughing, it turns out that Kievan Rus was not there, because its card contradicts the map of the USSR, for example laughing
      2. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Dreaming of an empire


        throwing daddy on the ground

        And who does not dream of her darling ?!
        CAPACITIES: I, too, when I do not write comments on the site, I just do what I think about my world domination. fellow
        1. KG_patriot_last
          KG_patriot_last 1 August 2013 18: 37 New
          +1
          wassat such people that the caliphate arap, that a person with a Soviet education

          Throwing out 20 centuries and leaving the last 20-100 years is ours, I think where did our Atambaevs / Akaevs / Bakiyevs learned ... The Kyrgyz people in the epic "Manas" verbally remembered their whole history, and now they suddenly became descendants of the Arabs ... And some are now also going to draw a Russian globe ... It's a pity our peoples ...
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 1 August 2013 22: 57 New
            0
            Quote: KG_patriot_last
            . And some are now also going to draw a Russian globe ...


            Late boy rushing around! Ancient Ukrainians got ahead of everyone with a globe!
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 1 August 2013 22: 25 New
          0
          I have already established my world domination, but not all the little people have finally recognized it. Napoleon reborn laughing
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 1 August 2013 23: 00 New
            0
            Quote: cdrt
            Napoleon reborn


            belay

        3. sasha.28blaga
          sasha.28blaga 2 August 2013 14: 33 New
          0
          In ward number 6, next to Napoleon. Sorry for the banality.
    3. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 2 August 2013 01: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: KG_patriot_last
      Kyrgyz and Uighurs are the only Türks from ancient times to retain their name.


      Yours?



      Didn’t they lock the door to the madhouse at night? wassat
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 2 August 2013 15: 04 New
        +1
        Yeah. The disciples of this great man wassat

    4. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 2 August 2013 10: 25 New
      +1
      See my remark above.
  • eplewke
    eplewke 1 August 2013 12: 26 New
    +3
    The Chinese government will soon reach the boiling point. As in Georgia, at the end of the 80s, engineer blades will disperse everyone. Or they’ll harshly preserve the army ... But they won’t get autonomy ...
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 1 August 2013 12: 32 New
      +4
      Quote: eplewke
      . But they won’t get autonomy ...


      You’re wrong, Eugene, there is autonomy but only on paper, it’s called so, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 1 August 2013 12: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: Valery Neon
    Remember one thing ... never a Chinese

    I would like to finish .....- try to say that the whales do not want OUR, RUSSIAN TERRITORY ... hi
  • Khan
    Khan 1 August 2013 12: 29 New
    +5
    I think the Chinese will do it easier to make a provocation, and not one during which N number of citizens will die, namely the Chinese and then there will be an outbreak of bird flu and all Uyghurs will die out except for the Chinese who will be vaccinated against military-style flu. And then the territory will be populated by a trustworthy nation and Islam will be eliminated in China. The United States will shout for an agreement that China will agree with them, Russia will generally keep silent because it is economically dependent on China, and all the rest will be completely none for China. For the rest, this will be a lesson about what happens to those who demand rights from a nation dominating on its territory.
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 1 August 2013 13: 03 New
    0
    Yeah, stick your snout. There they are in the liver! am
  • ed65b
    ed65b 1 August 2013 13: 44 New
    +2
    Yes, there will be no provocation from China. Do you think the leaders who staged a massacre in a square in Beijing need provocation? China may have bent militarily many centuries ago, but this time has passed and now China itself is actively bending the Türks throughout Asia and may, if desired, also bend militarily. So gentlemen, you and I have enough problems without the Chinese Uyghurs.
  • knn54
    knn54 1 August 2013 13: 55 New
    +3
    -KG_patriot_last: Kyrgyz and Uyghurs are the only Türks from ancient times to retain their name
    According to M. Kashgari, the self-name "Uyghur" dates back to the time of Alexander the Great. He called the riders opposing him in Central Asia “Hoodhurand,” “like a falcon, which no beast can escape from when hunting.” Or “warriors firing arrows from all sides.” “Hoodhurand” eventually decreased to “Hudhur”, and the last word turned into “Uyghur”.
    According to Chinese chronicle, the Uigurs are descendants of Gaoju, who (in turn) came from the Hunnu group. Historians described them as people of "short stature, proud and cruel, superior horsemen and archers, more greedy than all other steppe tribes."
    According to the Uighurs, in ancient times, the place of the Takla-Makan desert was a civilization - "the birthplace of the Tokhars." And their ancestors are from those places.
    In one of the manuscripts of a Buddhist monastery (530 BC), the Uigurs were described as “these were tall, fair-haired people with blue eyes ...”.
    Anthropologically belong to the TRANSITIONAL Caucasoid-Mongoloid race. That is, it was a nomadic warlike tribe, heterogeneous in its ethnic composition. At least at the time of crossing the Great Chinese “dam”. Of the Turkic peoples in racial, cultural and linguistic terms, the Uyghurs are much closer to the Uzbeks than the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz.
    In 742, the Uighurs rebelled against the Turks of the Second Kaganate and defeated them, having founded their Kaganate.
    The Yenisei Kirghiz resisted until 758. They were defeated and paid tribute to the Uyghurs, but did not lose self-government. The decline of the empire began after the defeat of the Kirghiz in 840. After this, part of the Uyghurs migrated to Central Asia.
    -Nomad Uyghurs are not inclined to religious extremism (like all residents of Central Asia with a few exceptions).
    On May 1, 1998, a fixed-route taxi was blown up in Osh; as a result, two people were killed and 12 injured. After a year and a half, the Kyrgyz authorities arrested five people in this case. According to official figures, three of them were Chinese Uighurs trained in the Khattab camps in Chechnya. In 2000, investigators in Alma-Ata went to the underground apartment of Uyghur terrorists from the XUAR. Underground members resisted and were killed in a shootout. In the same year in Bishkek for the refusal to donate money for the needs of the separatist underground in the XUAR, the chairman of the cultural and educational society of the Uighurs of Kyrgyzstan "Ittipak" Negmat Kazakov was killed.
    And they wanted to make a barrier in 1980, but the mole from the very top of the USSR leadership leaked the plan to the Yankees, and they willingly shared with the PRC ...
    PS "I will not take money with me to the grave, it is much more important for me that the strangers on my land do not interfere with me praying to Allah and living according to the laws of my ancestors," you can often hear from local residents.
    GLORIOUS past, HUMAN future.
    1. KG_patriot_last
      KG_patriot_last 1 August 2013 16: 55 New
      +1
      All painted correctly hi

      Everyone probably knows that at one time East Turkestan was looking towards the USSR, until it went to China. So, these lands, in theory, enter Central Asia, and the Kyrgyz actively roamed before. We have 300. population left, it would be nice to return both land and population laughing
  • Mushegh
    Mushegh 1 August 2013 14: 16 New
    +6
    I am sure that the enemies of humanity have used and are using the Türks for their own selfish purposes
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 1 August 2013 14: 23 New
    -1
    Quote: Karlsonn
    This is the most important thing, with us and so on the border where it doesn’t burn, it’s intense there.
    On a fig we need it?
    I hope China finds reasonable ways to solve this problem.

    It is time for the Russian leadership to make sensible decisions ... Time ... there is no money .... EARTH, our RUSSIA.
    Oh just do not say that there is the Far East ....-
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 15: 43 New
      +6
      Quote: Valery Neon
      ..Time ... there is no money .... EARTH, our RUSSIA.
      Oh just do not say that there is the Far East ....-


      I didn’t understand anything from what was written crying .
      But I’ll risk it:

      - There is a Far East, I lived there, my relatives live there.
      If cho, then here it is - just above the center.
      1. Gur
        Gur 2 August 2013 08: 49 New
        +1
        Damn, I thought the dude was already chewing, no damn it happened again - Abyrg Abyrg Abyrgvalg ..
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 40 New
          0
          Quote: GUR
          Damn, I thought the dude was already chewing, no damn it happened again - Abyrg Abyrg Abyrgvalg ..


          And yesterday, almost at the same time, he comments quite normally in the neighboring thread, this is a mystery ...
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 15: 44 New
      +6
      Quote: Valery Neon
      It is time for the Russian leadership to make sensible decisions ... Time ... there is no money .... EARTH, our RUSSIA.
      Oh just do not say that there is the Far East ....-

      What does the Far East have to do with it? I sit puzzles of your comments decide what kind of intelligence do you work? In the end, have a conscience, use official communication channels.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 17: 58 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        I sit puzzles of your comments decide what kind of intelligence do you work? In the end, have a conscience


        slyly squinting

        Tonight I will come home drunk and in blue chalk; I will answer a dumb question to a sweet one:
        - It's not my fault, it was a forced rehabilitation, a psychotherapist prescribed me bully .
        to the question:
        - what happened?
        - to me Valery Neonov the brain broke and the psyche half a day shook! yes

        starts dancing
  • smprofi
    smprofi 1 August 2013 17: 21 New
    +1
    read the article ...
    read the comments ...
    someone, more or less normal, is trying to recall a story, but somehow one-sided: either very ancient, or only modern.
    but no one remembered the 60s when the Great Pilot introduced the PLA in full format (tanks, artillery, aviation) and seized almost unowned lands from the PRC then. and crushed the Hunghuz Uyghurs as they could. then only the USSR joined. and sheltered refugees on its territory. look at least Romm "And yet I believe ...", but not in the edition of the 91st year. there this episode is slightly cut out ...
    Well, now just try to think: there are still people who did not live under the "Celestial Empire." who are they: separatists or patriots? and immediately on the lead: were the partisans of Belarus "separatists" and "terrorists"?
    and before you sing the State Department Regional Committee just ... think
    1. knn54
      knn54 1 August 2013 17: 31 New
      +2
      -Vasja, are you talking about this?
      Muslims working in government are unofficially warned of dismissal if they visit a mosque. For political reasons, many Uighurs send their children to Chinese schools, where they are taught only Chinese literacy. The Chinese authorities are pretty good at “ideology to the masses”, building a less religious society in the Uyghur Autonomous Region. Measures are being taken to limit "religiosity", the concept of "secular society" is being cultivated among the Muslim population. In order to limit the schoolchildren’s attendance of the Friday prayer, during the holidays the boys are strictly ordered to come to school. During the holidays, working Uyghurs receive alcohol as gifts. Communists can be criticized in private conversations, but under the threat of arrest, one cannot speak out in support of Uyghur independence. All Internet sites from the category of the BBC, Wikipedia, Human Rights Watch, as well as all sites dedicated to Uyghurs, are blocked by local providers.
      TODAY, the Chinese authorities are making more and more efforts to improve living standards in the Uyghur region, develop industry, export, and attract foreign capital, for which in 1994 Urumqi was called a special economic zone. In the outback, more and more began to ride in cars than on donkeys. Business and trade, especially with the countries of Central Asia and Russia, are developing. Many cities receive government subsidies. Thus, the standard of living of the population in Xinjiang over the past decade has improved significantly. Newspapers, magazines, television and radio broadcasts are published here in Uyghur, and at universities, schools and units of the Chinese army deployed in the Uyghur Autonomous Region, special (the main meat of Han Chinese pork) dining rooms, cafes and restaurants for Muslims are open.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 18: 59 New
        0
        Quote: knn54
        Newspapers, magazines, television and radio broadcasts are published here in the Uyghur language, and at universities, schools and units of the Chinese army deployed in the Uyghur Autonomous Okrug, special (the main Han Chinese pork meat) dining rooms, cafes and restaurants for Muslims are open.


        Let me subscribe!
        I got some nonsense commentators.
        "+" good
      2. smprofi
        smprofi 1 August 2013 19: 37 New
        0
        Quote: knn54
        Xinjiang's standard of living has improved significantly over the past decade

        yes for the sake of ... (insert necessary)
        I had only one question: here you live as you can, eat what you want or can ... well and so on ...
        and after a while, bombs pour on your head, shells are torn, various run around, shoot from machine guns ...
        then comes “smart” and tells you: you were oppressed, you were fed wrongly, etc.
        Now, immediately, everyone will support the "new order"? or will they be sent to a specific address of "benefactors"?
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 1 August 2013 18: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: smprofi
      and immediately on the lead: were the partisans of Belarus "separatists" and "terrorists"?


      Great question !!! good


      Quote: smprofi
      and crushed the Hunghuz Uyghurs as they could


      And who is this?
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 1 August 2013 19: 05 New
        0
        And who is this?

        Chinese ethnic gang, something like the Italian mafia, Japanese yakuza ...

        how many Uigurs are there, for so many years he has been at war with the Chinese - they will not disappear anywhere ...
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 23: 04 New
          0
          Quote: KG_patriot_last
          Chinese ethnic gang


          hunhuzy - hodgepodge, after the revolution, among them, the white who fled came across.


          Quote: smprofi
          but no one remembered the 60 when the Great Pilot introduced the PLA in full format (tanks, artillery, aviation) and seized practically unowned lands from the PRC then. and crushed the Hunghuz Uyghurs as they could. then only the USSR joined. and sheltered refugees on its territory.


          But how did they end up on the same heap: the PLA, the Hunhuz, the Uighurs and the USSR?
      2. smprofi
        smprofi 1 August 2013 19: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn
        Great question !!!

        Karlsonn, I did not specifically mention Ukraine, because the interpretation can be twofold: either partisans for the Soviet power, or the OUN / UPA ...
        Belarusians, it seems, were not involved in nationalism (at least officially) - that’s why they formulated it that way. like a shmog ...

        hunhuzy - actually, in Chinese - bandits. in the Far East, where I come from, all the wrong cross-eyed were called Hunhuzes. especially after Damansky.
        and, in order to clarify, Mao pressed the Uyghurs, and Brezhnev saved the miles of the Uyghurs or more — he let him into the Soviet Union.
        maybe in vain. but it was.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 1 August 2013 23: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: smprofi
          hunhuzy - actually, in Chinese - bandits. in the Far East, where I come from, all the wrong cross-eyed were called Hunhuzes. especially after Damansky.
          and, to clarify, crushed the Uyghurs Mao


          Got a question
          Quote: Karlsonn
          But how did they end up on the same heap: the PLA, the Hunhuz, the Uighurs and the USSR?
          - removed.


          Quote: smprofi
          - that's why it was formulated. like a shmog ...


          poor wording no
          1. smprofi
            smprofi 2 August 2013 00: 28 New
            +1
            KarlsonnDo you understand ...
            1. bro came to stay ...
            2. the child went to college.
            uh ... further explanation needed?
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 2 August 2013 01: 14 New
              +1
              Quote: smprofi
              Do you understand ...
              1. bro came to stay ...
              2. the child went to college.
              uh ... further explanation needed?


              Well, so right away! drinks
              By the way, I also migrated to Ukraine from the Far East wink
              1. Gur
                Gur 2 August 2013 08: 54 New
                +1
                Well, maybe a person can directly say that it’s good for him and all that, it’s not a miracle, he throws such rings that hell without a code book
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 43 New
                  +1
                  Quote: GUR
                  Well, maybe a person can directly say that he is good and all that


  • pinecone
    pinecone 1 August 2013 19: 44 New
    0
    Substantial material on the history of the issue
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%A1%D
    0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8C%D1%86%D0%B7%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%B0#.D0.A6.D0.B8.D0.BD.D1.81.D0.BA.D0
    .B8.D0.B9_.D0.BF.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B8.D0.BE.D0.B4
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 1 August 2013 19: 55 New
      +1
      wiki, such a wiki ... well, how many times you can climb into this trash ...
      At the end of 1955, the creation of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region was officially announced. Many Uighurs do not recognize the legitimacy of this act and support the struggle for the independence of East Turkestan.

      and all? no further? second half of the 60s - NO?
      Why?
      the Middle Ages or what happened before is informative, but there’s practically no reality of the XNUMXth century
      and then ... the "European" approach to issues in Asia is very interesting. the same Afghanistan: the reckoning of 13xx, continuous Middle Ages, tribes, nomadism. no! they must be squeezed into the "civilized" framework. and the same Uighurs: for the most part nomads who, BASICALLY, were engaged in raids and robbery, due to which they lived. and here ... (see above)
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 1 August 2013 23: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: smprofi
        wiki, such a wiki ... well, how many times you can climb into this trash ...


        good drinks
  • romb
    romb 1 August 2013 19: 45 New
    +4
    IMHO, unfortunately, the Uyghurs lost their chance to create an independent state. At one time, in the forties, the political leadership of the East Turkestan Republic, instead of engaging in squabbles and squabbles, had to make the only right decision: to join the USSR as a socialist republic. And then, quite possibly, in the beginning of the nineties another sovereign state would appear on the world map.
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 1 August 2013 20: 05 New
      +1
      I had a special officer, Grandfather Pakhom. at the end of the 30s, an MPR security adviser.
      there was no time for the "international" and no time for the building of a "state" with its "entry" / "accession". Uigurs calmed down as best they could: where with the help of a machine gun "Maxim", and where they paid off. nomads and, according to current qualifications, bandits accustomed to living off raids - what do you do with them?
      Grandfather Pakhom told me: I met with the leader of the tribe on neutral territory. him a list: army short fur coats, carcass, trilinear and cartridges. he agreed with everything except trilines and cartridges. replaced this "requirement" with "fire water" (alcohol). this tribe undertook not to attack and rob for 3 years - THERE ARE THEY WOULD KEEP THE WORD. did not attack. 3 years. and then they started again.
      that’s why with “European” brains climb into Asia and even in the Middle Ages ?!
    2. Gur
      Gur 2 August 2013 09: 01 New
      0
      A chance is not a payback, not an advance (words from the song "Treasure Island") It's not when it's not too late, especially in the spirit of recent years, anything can happen. And what happened in 40 years, so the USSR did not take any active actions to To this, the USSR armed the Chinese army, the Uyghurs also asked for weapons, but the USSR refused to do so, preferring the policy of non-interference “What will come of it.” Uigurs are still offended for this.
  • Semurg
    Semurg 1 August 2013 22: 01 New
    +4
    In spring, the Chinese came from Urumqi to visit, their impressions. 1) You have a lot of land 2) A lot of greenery 3) There are no Uigurs. When talking with a translator, I found out that she bought a car, but doesn’t use it, drives a bus and a taxi. When asked why she bought a car, she hesitated and said just in case that there would be something to leave if the mess starts again with Uyghurs like 2011. I understood myself so that the land and greenery are empty, but I would get rid of the Uyghurs (and other non-Han people) and it would be generally super.
    1. alone
      alone 2 August 2013 00: 39 New
      +3
      mdya! Chinese guests do not predict anything good for Kazakhstan. Brothers Kazakhstani, do not allow what the Russians have already allowed in Siberia and the Far East. I wish you great success in this matter
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 2 August 2013 09: 44 New
        +1
        The Chinese are trying to seep into Kazakhstan for a variety of reasons, but so far the authorities are successfully coping with this.
        1. Gur
          Gur 2 August 2013 14: 07 New
          0
          The Chinese-Chinese are stsuka as cunning cockroaches in the kitchen (ala Galygin) if they cannot settle in the forehead then they will make the adjacent territory unsuitable for this, and then they will settle. In particular, water is being taken in the rivers of Kazakhstan (Ili, Irtysh), which leads to an environmental disaster for this region of the country. Nazarbayev seemed to have agreed, the Chinese said - “we won’t let the bolsa go empty,” but as time shows, the water is gone. So we are successfully coping ...
      2. ed65b
        ed65b 2 August 2013 11: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: lonely
        mdya! Chinese guests do not predict anything good for Kazakhstan. Brothers Kazakhstani, do not allow what the Russians have already allowed in Siberia and the Far East. I wish you great success in this matter

        Lonely do not read liberal media about the Chinese in Siberia and the Far East. Their there is a miser.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 2 August 2013 12: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: ed65b
          Lonely do not read liberal media about the Chinese in Siberia and the Far East. Their there is a miser.


          Comrade is useless to explain anything here drinks
  • Nero9119
    Nero9119 2 August 2013 01: 55 New
    0
    China will simply crush the Uyghurs in the blood, it’s not little Syria with the rebels, but China. This is a strong centralized state, and the Chinese are only concerned about their opinions. They will crush just as the Soviets crushed the uprising in Prague, the "Prague Spring" ended before it began. The US will push, but it won’t go beyond local unrest, I’m sure that there will be no second Libya and Syria, the victim is at a different level.
  • Megatron
    Megatron 2 August 2013 02: 02 New
    -2
    It’s good for us that the Uighurs rebel there. And the more, the better.
    Ideally, it would be great to direct the vector of "world jihad" and the major countries of the axis
    Pakistan-Afghanistan-Saudi-Qatar to China.
    On both sides, the masses of people are huge, and the more they grind themselves in this meat grinder, the Chinese jihadists, the better for us. China will not be able to expand into Russia, Kazakhstan, and all of Central Asia; it will have nothing to do with it at all.
  • Viator
    Viator 2 August 2013 04: 25 New
    +3
    He lived for three years in Xinjiang: from the end of the summer of 2009 and somewhere until the end of the spring of 2010, all Internet and SMS services were blocked (in the territory, about three times the territory of the largest European countries!), At every big intersection the city’s roadblocks made of bags with something or even concrete blocks, there were eight people in the streets with assault rifles and something like short copies - one and a half meter sticks with spikes with an iron tip, they checked bags at the entrance to shopping centers and even public transport .. On the central square of the city even onetehnika stood. The government is quite determined and the separatists have no chance of achieving anything more than ordinary terror in several traditionally Uyghur cities like Kashgar. In the remaining regions, besides them, other peoples live quite compactly and in sufficient numbers. Say, Ili-Kazakh Autonomous Region borders directly on Kazakhstan (the center is the city of Inin / Kuldzha). The sympathies of most of the country's population are on the side of official Beijing. China pays little attention to the protests of the "international community" on its territory - this was already the case with Tibet in 2008, for example, when the government simply blocked access to these sites in response to the massive "video of atrocities" on YouTube and the angry cries of the Facebook community on the territory of the country and in response to the call of France to boycott the Olympics and the attempts of some Frenchmen to prevent the torch from being marching on their territory, ordinary Chinese people massively refused to purchase all "French" goods and boycotted the Carrefour supermarket chain the whole country. By the way, the blocking is still valid, without a proxy they can’t access them.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Viator
      He lived for three years in Xinjiang: from the end of the summer of 2009 and somewhere until the end of spring of 2010


      Well, finally! Thanks for the comment. drinks
  • sigizmund472
    sigizmund472 2 August 2013 07: 09 New
    +3
    And Washington is not on the sidelines.
    Who would doubt that.
    XUAR is the border of China with Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan is a member of the CSTO. So, if a threat from the Islamists arises from there, Russia is unlikely to remain on the sidelines. therefore

    Quote: Megatron
    It’s good for us that the Uighurs rebel there. And the more, the better.

    that is unlikely.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 47 New
      0
      Quote: sigizmund472
      Who would doubt that.
      XUAR is the border of China with Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan is a member of the CSTO. So, if a threat from the Islamists arises from there, Russia is unlikely to remain on the sidelines.


      I tried to hint here about this to some figures, but like a wall of peas.
  • pinecone
    pinecone 2 August 2013 08: 04 New
    0
    Quote: smprofi
    Brezhnev, Milyon Uyghurs or more saved - let into the Soviet Union.
    maybe in vain. but it was.


    This is not true. By agreement with the Chinese side, about 100 thousand Uighurs, Kazakhs and Dungans moved to the Soviet Union in 1962, that is, under Khrushchev. Earlier, in the mid-fifties, there was a massive departure to the USSR of part of the Kazakh population of Xinjiang.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 2 August 2013 08: 38 New
    +3
    Quote: bastard
    but it’s worth it! It’s necessary to exterminate any separatism atrociously even cannibalistic! especially Islamic separatism must be strangled in gas chambers! and stop talking about tolerance!

    This also happened in our Volga region, after the revolution, when there was no power, Islamic extremism appeared among the Tatars, they killed everyone who went to church and party cells, but they quickly and brutally extinguished it.
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 2 August 2013 10: 24 New
    0
    America is everywhere EARNING its pig POV!
    We must also think about how in America the same “revolution” will suit you!
    They need their foreheads in the Anglo-Saxons and Amerov pushed! so that it’s not mischievous! and sell weapons to both sides as they do! scum american
  • Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 2 August 2013 10: 38 New
    +4
    In the late 40s, when after the fighting, the republic of East Turkestan organized by the Kazakhs was formed. All the leadership of this republic at the invitation of I.V. Stalin flew to Moscow and was destroyed over the territory of the Soviet Union. This was followed by the occupation of East Turkestan by China, a fierce war of Kazakhs with the Chinese with gigantic victims. Along the roads, the Chinese, for intimidation, installed an infinite number of stake with the heads of Kazakhs. One family, of 20 people, unable to withstand the fighting, began to leave with rearguard battles in Afghanistan, only a few families crossed the border. The Dungans sympathized with the Kazakhs, while the Uighurs maintained neutrality. Now, after a long time, the Uyghurs pay tribute for their betrayal.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 52 New
      0
      Quote: Asan Ata
      At the end of the 40 years, when after the fighting, the republic of East Turkestan organized by the Kazakhs was formed. All the leadership of this republic at the invitation of I.V. Stalin flew to Moscow and was destroyed over the territory of the Soviet Union.


      here recently they wrote about how the Uyghurs almost won during the fighting, but the cunning Chinese invited the Uyghur leadership to Beijing, shot down the plane and the Uyghurs lost the war ....

      Seven wars - one legend? belay
      I do not mind, I just want to figure it out.
      1. Asan Ata
        Asan Ata 2 August 2013 17: 52 New
        +2
        Kazakhs fought with the Chinese. The Uighurs sat to the side and ate manti.
      2. Beck
        Beck 2 August 2013 18: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: Karlsonn
        here recently they wrote about how the Uyghurs almost won during the fighting, but the cunning Chinese invited the Uyghur leadership to Beijing, shot down the plane and the Uyghurs lost the war ....

        Seven wars - one legend?
        I do not mind, I just want to figure it out.


        Definitely one of us is confusing. Or I or Asan Ata. Most likely Asan Ata. Since his comment gives some superiority.

        Uyghurs and Kazakhs took part in the uprising. And the Uyghurs participated more since there are more of them in percentage terms. (Now there are about a million Kazakhs there, and 30 million Uyghurs). And why would it fight the Chinese, and fly to Moscow. And the Uighurs in the 18-19 centuries more than once rebelled against the Chinese goddess.
        1. Asan Ata
          Asan Ata 2 August 2013 22: 04 New
          +2
          A lot of Kazakhs died, so there are so few in East Turkestan now. Mostly Kazakhs went to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 2 August 2013 12: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Asan Ata
      At the end of the 40 years, when after the fighting, the republic of East Turkestan organized by the Kazakhs was formed. All the leadership of this republic at the invitation of I.V. Stalin flew to Moscow and was destroyed over the territory of the Soviet Union.


      Found!!!

      Quote: Beck
      There was one historical moment when East Turkestan was half a step away from independence. This is in 1945-1948 years. An uprising broke out in Xinjiang, in which Kazakhs living in the Ili region of the XUAR also participated. Half of Xinjiang was liberated from the Chinese forces and the offensive continued. And then the Chinese took up purely Chinese business - cunningly flattering diplomacy. They were ready to recognize Xinjiang’s independence and invited the leadership of the uprising to Beijing to discuss all aspects of independence. They sent a plane. 17 leaders of the uprising flew to the capital. But the plane crashed and everyone died. The most plausible explanation is an airplane explosion. After the rebellion was beheaded, China gradually established its power.


      There is exactly one question:
      - Comrades are Kazakhs, sort out where your plane flew to Beijing or Moscow.
      Please work out a general version. hi
      1. Asan Ata
        Asan Ata 2 August 2013 17: 59 New
        +2
        Yes, there are two versions of the death of the leadership of East Turkestan. But that is not the point, at least here. I talked about the fact that the Uighurs maintained neutrality instead of helping their brothers in faith. By the way, Xinjiang until 1991 was a TERRITORY UNDER MANAGEMENT of the PRC by agreement between the USSR and the PRC. And only in 1991, after the collapse of the USSR, China annexed East Turkestan. “Xinjiang” means “Western Province” in Chinese, as far as I remember.
  • Nomad
    Nomad 2 August 2013 10: 56 New
    +4
    Quote: GUR
    I personally do not mind, but only in favor, but I asked a question - is Kazakhstan ready to give its land for the creation of Uygurstan?

    Nobody is going to give anything to anyone and will not give, calm down already.
    1. Gur
      Gur 5 August 2013 08: 26 New
      0
      And where did you get that I'm worried? Or do you think that I asked this aspirated question?))
  • Nomad
    Nomad 2 August 2013 11: 02 New
    +4
    Quote: Karlsonn
    Great buffer

    Better than X million Han people right after the cordon. I know the Uighurs (we have a lot of them, and they know that it’s more expensive to cross a certain line in relations with the Kazakhs, namely, to raise the question of the mythical Uyghur lands in Kazakhstan), we will not have problems with an independent Uyghurstan or whatever it is called . On the contrary, he will need good relations with the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation as air (the Russian Federation - the roof, the Republic of Kazakhstan - the economic partner), since the Han people just won’t leave behind, they will do harm as they can. And I repeat, Uighurs are no more inclined toward religious extremism than Kazakhs (i.e., only individual scumbags).
    1. alone
      alone 2 August 2013 11: 45 New
      0
      Well, everyone has scumbags !! no argue with that
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 2 August 2013 11: 54 New
      0
      Quote: Nomad
      Better than X million Han people right after the cordon.


      What will this buffer give? In the end, to Kazakhstan, Russia, the rest of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, Uyghurs?
  • KononAV
    KononAV 2 August 2013 11: 57 New
    0
    Fire and sword! Carrot and stick!
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 2 August 2013 14: 52 New
    0
    Again, Islam is at the heart of the problem. It is the Islam that comes from Saudi Arabia. No wonder this bugger was hanging around there, Lawrence of Arabia: the British set up a regime there that spreads the infection far beyond its borders, and even sells oil cheaply.
    As for the settlement of the Uyghur area, most likely Chinese intelligence found out about the Americans' plans (for the buildup of separatism), and the Chinese acted very simply and effectively.
    That's who they send to us in Kazan, and then what will sprout? Video:
  • Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 2 August 2013 18: 10 New
    +3
    China is a growing problem for everyone, therefore, based on the principle "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", the states around China create problems for their great neighbor. It seems to me that China, having so successfully overcome poverty and war, will not be able to cope with a huge number of happy Chinese. After all, a well-fed one will not go to work for a cup of rice, he will not go to die for his communist capitalist Motherland. And, moreover, the rich and middle class of China will constantly corrupt the political leadership, which, of course, will turn out to be the same Gorbachev.
  • Panikovsky
    Panikovsky 2 August 2013 19: 34 New
    +2
    we have a border with the PRC, the Uyghur issue is a matter of the PRC. It seems to me that we should not even raise the question of the Uyghurs, and other independent tribes. But it’s worth taking care of yourself. us, this is us, we are old, but not slanderous people.
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 4 August 2013 11: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: Karlsonn
    The time to destroy with impunity entire nations has irrevocably passed.

    You are wrong, unfortunately.
    For example, with the collapse of the USSR, ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Russian population began in Chechnya. In the 90s, the Ministry of Internal Affairs began an investigation, but they were told to stop. Kadyrov killed the first Russian at age 16 (before the start of all wars in Chechnya). And when there were no Russians left in Chechnya, he received a star of a hero.
    And according to the last census of the USSR in 1989, hundreds of thousands of Russians lived there.
  • Ram chandra
    Ram chandra 4 August 2013 12: 52 New
    +3
    Oh, how good that I am Kazakh. I live in peace and tranquility ..
  • Demyn
    Demyn 4 August 2013 14: 31 New
    0
    Now there should be no doubt, after the events of recent years in countries that have experienced all the charms of the pseudo-Islamist plague, that Islamic revolutionaries embrace country after country with their activity, and here one must be flawed to perceive this as an act of truly believing people who care for the good of the country . It should be understood that they carry out their propaganda and campaigning activities for the money of one center, which manages a network of local groups in all regions falling into the sphere of interests of this center itself. These agents are a direct threat to Russia's national security, and the control measures should be the most stringent.
  • individual
    individual 5 August 2013 09: 15 New
    0
    I am sure that China, without looking back at Western tolerance, will easily extinguish separatism that threatens their statehood.
    1. yan
      yan 5 August 2013 16: 17 New
      0
      the possibility of independent, without outside interference, repayment of separatist manifestations is the basis of sovereignty, a truly healthy state.
  • Alexandr0id
    Alexandr0id 6 August 2013 16: 42 New
    +2
    But what are the actual prospects of China in eastern Turkestan? The Uighurs do not want to assimilate, they do not enter into marriages with the Chinese, they also don’t join the Communist Party, they don’t learn Chinese, they don’t participate in Chinese economic life. at the same time they add in the amount of 2% per year. relocating 150 million Chinese there, as was the case with Manchuria, is impossible - the climatic conditions (desert with oases) will not allow. what in the end, how to turn this region into Chinese? arrange the genocide of the Uighurs, start killing indiscriminately, or evict them to the internal Chinese regions? such an attempt will lead to a massacre, during which the Uyghurs cut civilians (including the local police) Han, and the Chinese military kill a significant part of the Uyghurs, and the rest (both the Uyghurs and the Chinese) flee, some to the west, others to the east. and even that is unlikely, the 21st century in the yard.